Randy Lerner

[bertlambshank]

I don't get this gamble thing.Randy just isn't very clever.

[Concrete John]

My problem is with their "Plan". I'm assuming they have a plan, it could just be off the hoof like the MON years, but lets call it the "Phoenix from the ashes" plan

I imagine Lamberts and indeed TSM's remit was/is something like the following:

"Manager will overseea period of rationalisation/cutting wages/shifting big earners
 while keeping us in the premiership. Manager to put emphasis on hunting out young relatively cheap players with potential to compliment our existing young players, resulting in a steady improvement in league placings as the players improve in the mid-long term"

Well i guess there's probably a few names still to dump, but part1 of the plan has worked. Squad-wise we're now of a similar quantity and quality as the relegation fodder. We're certainly playing as badly as the relegation candidates and to all intensive purposes we're Wigan with higher overheads. I don't know if Lambert can keep us up like that over the next 2 or three seasons but he's probably got as much chance as anyone bar miracle workers. i guess we'll find out.

Its "the rise from the ashes"bit that worries me. Sure i think some of the young players both bought and home-grown could become good players, maybe top 4 good but the majority of them? Nah. Not in the numbers to regularly get us in the best of the rest catagory and certainly not before the big clubs nick them.  So basically short term, we're Wigan with a long term plan to become the next Everton. Hopefully Lambert is this managerial combination of Martinez and Moyes and the promised land of regular 6th-8th finishes will becomes possible.

Great.

I don't think it's a case of fighting relegation for 2-3 years, but rather understanding that that it will take time to get these players to the required level of performance and consistency.  Will we be in the same position this time next year?  The relative success of the 'plan', should we be understanding it correctly, will be seen if we are not. 

What is key is that the experienced players we bring it while we do this are the right ones.  This summer it was Vlaar, Holman and KEA, who have in tern been good, decent and poor.  I do think that PL experience is needed now, as those with it already in our squad have simply not delivered, so that might mean a few extra quid being needed this month.

Spurs is probably a better example and their 'plan' goes back to Martin Jol's time there.  What is key, as you rightly point out, is keeping the better youngsters as they improve and start getting noticed.  While Spurs lost a couple, they kept on track by replacing them, so we can't just abandon what we're trying to build if someone slaps £20m on the table for Benteke.   

[Matt Collins]

Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?

Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably

[pauliewalnuts]

Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?

Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably

Lots of good players start in the lower leagues. The question is whether you should throw so many of them into the front line straight away.

[Chris Smith]

Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?

Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably

Lots of good players start in the lower leagues. The question is whether you should throw so many of them into the front line straight away.

We probably wouldn't but for injuries.

[Concrete John]

Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?

Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably

Lots of good players start in the lower leagues. The question is whether you should throw so many of them into the front line straight away.

I don't think we planned to, but the senior players that should have been playing in their stead aren't due to either injury or lack of form.

[Mazrim]

Or instead of getting relegated we could do what Spurs did a few years back while hovering over the relegation zone and get our act together and put in a decent run now creating the confidence for next season.
During the summer we can add some more quality and finally our last few years of dross are behind us.

That'd be my preferred option.

Relegation would be fecking horrible. Newcastle came back up largely because they held on to pretty much all their better players. There's no guarantee we would do the same.

There's no guarantee of anything. That's sport. But Newcastle held on to some of their better players but also trusted in a good manager with a young emerging squad as opposed to keeping the overpaid, underperforming chaff they had that was doing nothing for them but costing money and holding younger motivated players back. They also bought well.
And nobody is claiming relegation would be anything other than horrible. I'm certainly not.

[Irish villain]

Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?

Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably

Lots of good players start in the lower leagues. The question is whether you should throw so many of them into the front line straight away.

To be honest, what I like about the lower league signings is that they look less 'manufactured' than the academy products. In 'The Secret Footballer' book the author spends time on this point. Manufactured players from the top clubs have been coached from a very young age and lose some of the natural instinct whereas players who have worked their way up the hard way tend to have a bit more drive, hunger, heart and natural attributes.

I haven't explained myself very well but I think most of you will know what I am getting at. Delph, to me, looks like he came off a conveyor belt and so isn't brilliant at any one thing. Ashley Westwood on the other hand looks like a footballer who came through because he was good and worked hard.

[paul_e]

Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?

Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably

Lots of good players start in the lower leagues. The question is whether you should throw so many of them into the front line straight away.

To be honest, what I like about the lower league signings is that they look less 'manufactured' than the academy products. In 'The Secret Footballer' book the author spends time on this point. Manufactured players from the top clubs have been coached from a very young age and lose some of the natural instinct whereas players who have worked their way up the hard way tend to have a bit more drive, hunger, heart and natural attributes.

I haven't explained myself very well but I think most of you will know what I am getting at. Delph, to me, looks like he came off a conveyor belt and so isn't brilliant at any one thing. Ashley Westwood on the other hand looks like a footballer who came through because he was good and worked hard.

Most of that comes from the fact that a lot of premier league teams concentrate on the physical aspects of the game in their youth systems, so it becomes all about pace, stamina and strength.  Technical skills come later, which explains why so many players coming through in the UK system are so one footed, amongst other things.

[Risso]

Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?

Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably

Lots of good players start in the lower leagues. The question is whether you should throw so many of them into the front line straight away.

I don't think we planned to, but the senior players that should have been playing in their stead aren't due to either injury or lack of form.

Who would be playing instead of Lowton and Bennett?  Or Westwood?

[N'ZMAV]

Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?

Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably

Lots of good players start in the lower leagues. The question is whether you should throw so many of them into the front line straight away.

I don't think we planned to, but the senior players that should have been playing in their stead aren't due to either injury or lack of form.

Who would be playing instead of Lowton and Bennett?  Or Westwood?

Super Leg of Mutton.

[Risso]

Or instead of getting relegated we could do what Spurs did a few years back while hovering over the relegation zone and get our act together and put in a decent run now creating the confidence for next season.
During the summer we can add some more quality and finally our last few years of dross are behind us.

That'd be my preferred option.

Relegation would be fecking horrible. Newcastle came back up largely because they held on to pretty much all their better players. There's no guarantee we would do the same.

There's no guarantee of anything. That's sport. But Newcastle held on to some of their better players but also trusted in a good manager

After Shearer had failed to keep them up, they appointed Hughton full time.  Once he got them promoted, he was then ditched in favour of Pardew.

[Mazrim]

I know all that. I mean they trusted Hughton with a young squad to do it and he did.
I also think they were harsh to get rid of him but that's another matter.

[pestria]

THe fans did not want  a gambler, the fans just wanted no more Ellis and O leary type appointments,

Agreed - most of the talk on here was about a much needed 5 year plan, involving improved marketing,  stadium expansion, overseas scouting development as well as an investment in players.

[Concrete John]

Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?

Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably

Lots of good players start in the lower leagues. The question is whether you should throw so many of them into the front line straight away.

I don't think we planned to, but the senior players that should have been playing in their stead aren't due to either injury or lack of form.

Who would be playing instead of Lowton and Bennett?  Or Westwood?

It's not a case of 'instead of', but rather alongside and/or rotated with.

However, in answer I'd say KEA/Ireland for Westwood.  The FBs is different as they needed changing, so that's more of a case of Lowton and Bennett playing with experienced CBs (Vlaar/Dunne) to help them and also a more experienced midfield infront of them.