Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on October 21, 2011, 07:28:41 PM
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Available Saturday evening.
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Piss poor, dreadful, shite.
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Shit. Unfortunately, we have to get used to it.
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Worst red card decision ever. However that doesn't excuse how utterly dreadful we were in the second half. We don't know how to keep possesion, Petrov awful. Heskey on in central midfield is baffling terrible. Just dire, toyed with by fucking West Brom.
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Oh dear.
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I posted this in the match thread, can't think of anything else to put.
Randy you have proper fucked it up. Allowed MoN to spunk millions, picked a replacement who had heart problems then replaced him with a manager who relegated a team twice in 3 years.
What did you think was going to happen?
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Very poor 2nd half, the one thing that you would imagine we would have shit loads of and that's the ability to hang on to a draw, we didn't even have that.
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Phil Dowd you are a wanker.
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Thanks for nothing Dowd, ya fuckin ass clown. What a joke that tosser is.
On the whole, I don't understand how we cant defend set pieces. N'Zogbia, Petrov, Bent and Gabby didn't cut it for me today. I am absolutely livid.
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The linesman is a
twat! official who make the decisions ;)
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Of yeah, Collins should be banned from passing it long. He's fucking atrocious at it. Randy you have made a tremendous fuck up by pulling all the spending.
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Well, that's relegation football. The lack of wins at the start of the season is coming back to haunt us.
McLeish is going to go down as the worst Villa manager since Graham Turner, and it's not really even his fault. He's inherited a shambolic, divided squad and is forced to play with the crap he has. The only thing I can fault him for is signing N'Zogbia, but even that is in hindsight.
He brought Heskey on because there was nobody else on the bench. I don't know what Clark or Ireland would have done differently.
We're now stuck with McLeish because we can't/won't afford to pay him off. The football is crap, the desire is missing and we're hurtling down the league. We've played more games than the teams beneath us, so 8th (or whatever it is now) is a false position.
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I posted this in the match thread, can't think of anything else to put.
Randy you have proper fucked it up. Allowed MoN to spunk millions, picked a replacement who had heart problems then replaced him with a manager who relegated a team twice in 3 years.
What did you think was going to happen?
I would never take anger out on the owners but now i'm seeing they're at fault for a lot of shit that has happened recently.
They have fucked up so bad and they don't even realise it. They have led me not to give a shit about the club anymore. I honestly don't care anymore. I'm only on here just to look at how far we've fallen in just one year.
Atleast I'll hopefully get to watch my Ravens rape the Cleveland Browns in a few weeks. That will atleast make me smile.
P.S. Phil Dowd you're such a faggot.
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I've fucking had it. Disgusting. We were fighting an uphill battle when the twat of a referee and linesmen forgot how to officiate.
But after that? Fucking hell. Dire. Clueless.
WHY WAS HESKEY IN MIDFIELD? It makes no sense. Had we had Clark in there, we'd of had a much stronger midfield pairing to build from. We basically had a midfield of Petrov and a tall lump of human faeces. He wasted everything he had. He didn't win a single header.
I'm furious. I was happy to accept McLeish. I didn't care he was from them, and I was willing to give him a chance. Chance has ran out. You don't play Emile fucking Heskey in midfield when you have anyone else capable of trapping, passing and holding onto a football sitting on the bench.
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The only thing more likely to ruin your Saturday than a trip to IKEA: Phil Dowd.
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I still don't understand why when we get a red card we just collpase where as if the opponent gets a red card they keep composed and normally get a draw from us at the very minimum. In the league this year we've seen Spuds, West Brom and QPR get a red card against us but still somehow managed to win or draw.
And zero shots on target at home is unacceptable regardless if we're down to 10 men.
Christ we've got Sunderland away next. I don't expect anything with McLeish's terrible away record and our gutless players.
And as for Randy Lerner? He's the core that makes our club so rotten at the moment. Really needs to pack his bags.
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P!ss p!ss poor
awful decision to send off Herd and the Pen
even so - we were awful absolutely awful - we`ve gone back to the O`Dreary days :( :(
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So for those who watched it was it ok but we were mugged by the ref or were we rubbish and the red card was just a distraction?
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Randy. You need a new CEO and a new manager. Sharpish. Today is not acceptable.
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P.S. Phil Dowd you're such a faggot.
And if you don't cut out the homophobic language you can find another message board to post on.
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We were mugged by the ref, but we were absolutely diabolical along with that. We are the least technically gifted football team in the league.
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McLeish needs to do something, the stats today showed Villa no shots on target.
It's going to be a long miserable season when they can play 90 minutes and not get one shot on target.
The red card was wrong and I hope the club appeal, but it doesn't excuse the crap they played in the second half and we are still terrible at defending set pieces. I thought McLeish was going to sort this out, but they are awful.
Hard to see if the players are doing anything better than they were for Houlier.
Could be battling with Blackburn, Wolves and Wigan at the bottom by Christmas.
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as soon as we went down to 10 men you just knew we would go into Victim mode,
and thats how we played as if there was no chance of salvaging anything frrom the game, we had been harshly done by so we have a great excuse to not try very hard.
all the TV interviews will blame everybody else apart from the Villa players and manager,
but we know we were exposed today, when we needed a bit of fight and battling unity, it wasnt there, nor was any quality which is even more worrying
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Is anyone really surprised at this, its going exactly as most predicted, a downward spiral of dull football, draws and narrow defeats after the initial honeymoon period.
McLeish is doing exactly what the owners must have expected him to, and its not pretty and never will be.
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We seem to have no hustle. We have too many players "waiting for someone else" to do it. Earth to McLeish - Our offensive system is not working.
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So for those who watched it was it ok but we were mugged by the ref or were we rubbish and the red card was just a distraction?
The 2nd bit.
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So for those who watched it was it ok but we were mugged by the ref or were we rubbish and the red card was just a distraction?
We were doing absolutely fine until that decision. Comfortably the better team.
That said, we still shouldn't have performed quite so dreadfully as we did in the second half.
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We deserved to be playing with 10 men, just not those 10.
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Aston Villa FC have been a shambles since August 2010 and there's seemingly no end in sight. Is there a more disorganised club in the top flight right now?
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P.S. Phil Dowd you're such a faggot.
And if you don't cut out the homophobic language you can find another message board to post on.
You gonna ban anyone that will use offensive insults the ref? lol
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Even those of us who want to give McLeish a chance to build something are going to be hard pushed to show him any patience tonight. Yes, the sending off was an utterly shit decision, but that said we should still have enough to see this through. I look at Newcastle and the brilliant job that Pardew has done. You could make a case that they were worse off than us going into the season, yet he's galvanised the club and the fans despite their initial malaise are out in full support. By comparison, we have a massive fuck off cloud hanging over us, and the storm is coming. Hold onto something because it's going to get rough. Those of us who see the glass as half full as often as possible are in danger of spilling our pints.
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I am not sure what people expect, we have a very limited squad, we have found out that Hutton Delph and Nzogbia are not up to it, that Bents only ability is to finish, he cant do much else, it was like playing with 9 today. We will struggle this season.
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think mcleish got it badly wrong with the tactics after the red card. we were playing decent up to then but were pathetic in the second half.
given 6 - one great save but abdicated responsibility for not coming off his line for the chance olsson missed.
hutton 3 - awful. should have been sent off. gave away the ball routinely, cross always hits first man.
dunne 6 - shares responsibility with collins for the first. kicked two balls out of the play but not too bad.
collins 6 - see above
warnock 6 - started shaky but alright after that aside from fuck up at the end.
nzogbia 4 - looks a shadow of the player he was.
petrov 5 - started well but cant play in a 442
herd 6 - impressed me in his brief stint
bannan 6 - decent first half but not an option centrally in a 442
gabby 6 - did great for the penalty and like a few others very good in first half
bent 4 - awful missed chance. no service so really gabby should have gone up top and ireland come on
heskey 0 - not good enough for EPL. not his fault he was selected at midfield where he was comically inept. lets just pay him off as enough is enough.
cuellar 5 - lost scharner for second goal but better than hutton.
albrighton 4 - tough game to come on but confidence is low. like bannan he is ridiculously lightweight.
we are a midtable side, no more, no less. red card killed us. mcleish's changes were baffling in the second half. clark should have come on at interval. very little to be enthused about - nothing from ireland, nzogbia, albrighton so far this season really. Hutton and Nzogbia have had horror starts to their Villa careers and we are starting to leak goals at set pieces though I think Given has to share some responsibility for not coming off his line. Bent naturally too is struggling, he needs service from out wide but we arent really playing with widemen. For all Bannan's good play, I cant remember Bent being slipped a through ball in on goal yet this season.
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Suddenly our start to the season doesn't appear especially clever does it?
Lets face it, we were very ordinary up until the sending off. It was never a red card, or a yellow, or a foul, or anything. It was a ridiculous decision. However I don't think we can feel too hard done by on that score, as Hutton should have walked for an absolutely disgusting challenge earlier.
Even allowing for the sending off, it was poor afterwards. Both Albion goals came as the result of poor set piece defending, (I think the whole Mcleish being a good defensive manager is beginning to look a little bit like a myth) We couldn't keep the ball for more than 3 passes and showed zero threat going forward.
Some very baffling tactical and selection decisions today also. Crazy that Ireland didn't play after showing good form in recent weeks, while the poor N'Zogbia got a game. I don't think I can add anything to the Heskey in midfield discussion that hasn't been said.
We are a poor team with a poor manager.
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Keep the abuse clean :)
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It's going to be a long hard slog this season. When you consider who we have played we really needed a few more points on the board.
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In my opinion there is a basis for a decent side there, but as predicted before the season, the lack of bite in midfield is costing us. Being reduced to ten men today excarbated that problem.
The most important thing now is to look onwards and upwards and, if possible, get at least four points from our next two matches. The worst thing that can happen is that we go into our difficult winter period on a downward slide and wave of negativity, because I'm not sure McLeish will be able to stop the rot if it sets in. That doesn't need to happen; we're still comfortably mid-table, and should be able to build on that.
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Chuff me, have I missed something? We were absolutely cruising at 1-0 and would have gone on to win comfortably before the worst refereeing decision I have seen in my 20+ years of following Villa. Yes we were poor in the 2nd half but fact is, we would have won but for a linesman who has made up an incident that didn't happen. The defending from set pieces was poor, there's no doubt about that Clark should have come on as soon as Herd was sent packing but still, we would have three points in the bag now but for a truly embarrassing decision.
Special mention to Dunne and Bannan who were both brilliant. Petrov, Collins, Hutton and Bent all very poor.
Pretty much how I feel.
Couldn't of seen us losing, another draw maybe but certainly no consecutive loss. I wasn't expecting too much from us once we went down to 10 players. A win would of been a big ask.
I think West Brom scoring right before half time kind of messed up McLeish's gameplan for the second half which is understandable as he would of had a headache of a dilemma.
The most annoying thing about this loss is that if that was McLeish's Blues team they would of escaped with a draw.
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I don't think Petrov would get in most sides in the Premier League. He's our best centre midfielder and that is damning.
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So for those who watched it was it ok but we were mugged by the ref or were we rubbish and the red card was just a distraction?
The 2nd bit.
Up until the red card west brom had done nothing and we looked good for a win. It changed the game much more than it should have. We just became a shambles.
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This result came as no surprise to me whatsover
A tactically inept manager and a piss poor squad
Regarding the sending off I listened on WM and it was describe as Herd being warned twicce before the icident to calm it down and then he stamped on Olsen in the penalty area which is in effect the same as hitting him so why is that not a sending off
Attendances plummeting and an owner who doesn't care anymore
We're fucked
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So for those who watched it was it ok but we were mugged by the ref or were we rubbish and the red card was just a distraction?
For the first time this season I thought we actually liked like a team, the calmness of Herd a huge improvement on Delph. Saying that, N'Zogbia still offers nothing and Hutton a complete liability but the rest looked up for it. We were still not playing with enough speed, players needing an extra touch on the ball but after the last five years (plus) of crap football, it's not going to happen over night.
After the red card and the equaliser we lacked the conviction and belief that we can hold and pass the ball. We showed for about ten minutes that when we put our minds to it, it can be achieved but after years of 1970's football, it's like a foreign language to us. We understand one or two words but struggle to put a sentence together. Practice and confidence are key.
The sad thing is, I really can't see things changing much. Whilst McLeish is a good man-manager, tactically Peter Grant has his ear when it should be Kevin MacDonald. We've seen some big improvements from last season, especially Dunne and especially today, Warnock but we're failing to do the obvious, supply Bent. We may as well not have him in the team as he's a very limited player, limited to scoring goals if you supply him.
Where do we go from here? The pub is probably the best idea. Until we have a manager, preferably a foreign manager that understands 21st century football, we're pissing in the wind. And there's no point having such a manager unless he's going to be supported by the board. McLeish was mad to take the Villa job, he never stood a chance, ignoring the idiots that won't support him because he came from them, he hasn't been given the tools to work with. Saying that, our two worst players (and I include Heskey) are most certainly Hutton and N'Zogbia.
Positives from today? Carlos at right back, Warnock's return to form, Herd's display, an obvious replacement for Delph and erm... the good weather here and the bottle of wine I'm about to open.
Fucking jammy, yammy, Tesco bags. Phil Dowd should hold his head in shame. Absolutely pathetic.
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P.S. Phil Dowd you're such a faggot.
And if you don't cut out the homophobic language you can find another message board to post on.
You gonna ban anyone that will use offensive insults the ref? lol
No, I'm going to ban people who use homophobic abuse. Just as I would ban people for using racist abuse.
So stop it.
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Garth Crookes suggest he will do in-depth analysis of sending off tonight..dreadful decison that cost us the game!
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Phil Dowd you are a wanker.
Yes he is, but from all accounts, Hutton should have gone earlier so it was the right number, just the wrong one gone.
I'm so glad we swapped Young for Hutton.
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When Trevor Francis can't even see why they were given a penalty never mind a sending off that says all you need to know about Phil Dowd.
That said, excuses aside it was McLeish that bought Hutton and Y'Zogbia to Villa - the modern day Neil Cox and Nigel Callaghan.
Fuckin rubbish
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Oh how one utter numbnuts decision can turn a game. Pathetic decision that utter screwed the match up. Having said all that, we cannot simply implode if something sh** happens to us, we need to be stronger than that.
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Shabby. I don't know what that red card was all about for a start, but after that we were so poor we clearly didn't deserve anything. I wouldn't mind if N'Zogbia suddenly started to remember how to play football as well, to describe his performance as anonymous is too kind.
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Its amazing that all those slagging off Dowd are very conveniently forgetting Hutton's "tackle".
It wasn't even Dowd's decision to award the penalty / send off Herd. It was the LINESMAN'S
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Hodgson says it was a stamp, absolute bollocks.
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Had Dowd refereed competently he'd have sent off Hutton earlier and not Herd and then not given the missed penalty. Can someone explain how we would have been better off?
That was a disjointed, poor performance.
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We've seen some big improvements from last season,
I think that last season, despite our inconsistency, we looked more like a coherent unit than we do now. How much of it is due to NRC, Young and Downing leaving and how much is due to a change in tactics, is difficult to say. But sadly, there is little doubt that we appear to be regressing.
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..there's no doubt about that Clark should have come on as soon as Herd was sent packing..
Completely agree. We should have taken off N'Zogbia and brought Clark on to maintain the balance.
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From where I sat it looked like Herd kicked out, couldn't tell if there was contact, but as soon as I saw the Lino flagging I knew he was going off.
I knew Bents miss early on would come back to haunt us.
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Its amazing that all those slagging off Dowd are very conveniently forgetting Hutton's "tackle".
It wasn't even Dowd's decision to award the penalty / send off Herd. It was the LINESMAN'S
Ok, so it's the LINESMAN'S fault. Shame the LINESMAN didn't help Dowd out with the rules of the game in the cup final.
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Hodgson says it was a stamp.
Then all respect for Hodgson goes out the window. Herd just pulled his foot free, you can see by the way his leg makes a big swing after. I just hope we appeal.
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I haven't seen our defence improve that much. We still give away silly goals from corners, so what's the point of McLeish if he can't even sort that out?
I also despise the majority of players considering the wages they're on and the fact they can't even pass the ball round properly at all. There's just no value at all. I can see why Randy Lerner is cutting down the wage bill, but he's getting rid of the wrong players. I'm sick to death of seeing players like Heskey and Petrov still remain in our club. Especially Petrov. It makes me sick to still see him wear the armband when Bulgria finished bottom in the qualification table. He isn't a leader. A real leader would have gotten the team something today.
Randy Lerner has got to be the most clueless chairman around surely? We could argue Venkys are worse, but Randy has been around for 5 years now. He should have some sort of clue by now. But it seems he is a fraud and the sooner he goes the better.
It really is a shit time to be a Villa fan. The best we can hope for now is survival. 2005/2006 all over again.
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Setanta played the sending off almost continually through half time and I still cant see what he'd done wrong. It might have looked as though his foot was in the right area to stamp on Ollson but you'd think the lino would need to be a lot more sure than that to give a penalty and tell the ref to send him off.
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Suprise
Woy Hodgson just said on Sky they played werry werry well and it was a clear sending off :-[
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We seem to have no hustle. We have too many players "waiting for someone else" to do it. Earth to McLeish - Our offensive system is not working.
Hutton, Heskey, Dunne and Collins wearing Villa shirts is pretty offensive to me.
But I don't think that's what you mean.
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Its amazing that all those slagging off Dowd are very conveniently forgetting Hutton's "tackle".
It wasn't even Dowd's decision to award the penalty / send off Herd. It was the LINESMAN'S
Ok, so it's the LINESMAN'S fault. Shame the LINESMAN didn't help Dowd out with the rules of the game in the cup final.
I'm not condoning the decision by any means, it was an absolute shocker, probably the most unfathomable decision i've ever seen watching football.
However, the way I see it is that they missed the subsequent penalty, and that we should have been down to 10 men at that stage anyway.
If an Albion player had made a challenge similar to Hutton's, then this site would have gone into meltdown and rightly so.
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We seem to have no hustle. We have too many players "waiting for someone else" to do it. Earth to McLeish - Our offensive system is not working.
Hutton, Heskey, Dunne and Collins wearing Villa shirts is pretty offensive to me.
But I don't think that's what you mean.
I thought three of those four were among our better players, I'd have put Dunne as clearly our best player.
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Its amazing that all those slagging off Dowd are very conveniently forgetting Hutton's "tackle".
It wasn't even Dowd's decision to award the penalty / send off Herd. It was the LINESMAN'S
Ok, so it's the LINESMAN'S fault. Shame the LINESMAN didn't help Dowd out with the rules of the game in the cup final.
I'm not condoning the decision by any means, it was an absolute shocker, probably the most unfathomable decision i've ever seen watching football.
However, the way I see it is that they missed the subsequent penalty, and that we should have been down to 10 men at that stage anyway.
If an Albion player had made a challenge similar to Hutton's, then this site would have gone into meltdown and rightly so.
I was waiting for someone to wheel out "the penalty wan't scored anyway" nonsense. It's not the pen that cost us it was the ridiculous sending off of one of our best players that is the issue. We have a piss weak midfield as it is without losing a player to a bullshit decision. I'd rather they'd scored the penalty and Herd stayed on the pitch.
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11 v 11 we're easily the better side,competitive, winning balls and creating the only chances.
Up step that fat fucking ****** Dowd and that's that.
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Its amazing that all those slagging off Dowd are very conveniently forgetting Hutton's "tackle".
It wasn't even Dowd's decision to award the penalty / send off Herd. It was the LINESMAN'S
Ok, so it's the LINESMAN'S fault. Shame the LINESMAN didn't help Dowd out with the rules of the game in the cup final.
I'm not condoning the decision by any means, it was an absolute shocker, probably the most unfathomable decision i've ever seen watching football.
However, the way I see it is that they missed the subsequent penalty, and that we should have been down to 10 men at that stage anyway.
If an Albion player had made a challenge similar to Hutton's, then this site would have gone into meltdown and rightly so.
I was waiting for someone to wheel out "the penalty wan't scored anyway" nonsense. It's not the pen that cost us it was the ridiculous sending off of one of our best players that is the issue. We have a piss weak midfield as it is without losing a player to a bullshit decision. I'd rather they'd scored the penalty and Herd stayed on the pitch.
Maybe you need to re-read the whole of my post.
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Very worrying performance. No one able to gee us up and get us going when things went against us (apart from Given, and there's only so much he can do from in goals).
On Setanta Ireland, Pat feckin' Nevin thought it was a penalty after watching it seven times. Herd didn't complain about being sent-off...according to the experts that's a clear indication he was culpable. No mention of the fact that Olsson didn't stay on the ground or complain at all after the alleged ''stamp''. It changed the game completely but as Brian Little said on the Setanta coverage, that only masked our shortcomings.
The other pundit, Danny Mills, made a very good point. Villa don't have an identity at the moment. We lack the players to play McLeish's up and at 'em approach and we're not good enough to be a patient, passing side. Our ball retention was as horrendous as ever today.
As infuriating as I found his style of football when the onus was on us to break the opppoistion down, and the petulant way he walked out, I find myself missing the days of MON. He would never have us disorganised so much for set-pieces. West Brom scored two goals and almost a third from their first three corners. And we don't have a clue how to be effective when it comes to our own corners. We're a shell of a squad, no coherent style or spirit between them. We've had an average start to the season, a horrific December means we're going to have to get points on the board quickly over the next few weeks and I'm not confident of us beating anyone.
And a third proud unbeaten record against a local team goes in the space of six months.
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We seem to have no hustle. We have too many players "waiting for someone else" to do it. Earth to McLeish - Our offensive system is not working.
Hutton, Heskey, Dunne and Collins wearing Villa shirts is pretty offensive to me.
But I don't think that's what you mean.
I thought three of those four were among our better players, I'd have put Dunne as clearly our best player.
In fairness, he's been better this season.
But for all the talk of our defensive lynchpins enjoying their football again and enjoying playing under McLeish, our defending hasn't been so hot really. Given has probably been our player of the season to date, which say's it all for me.
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Well, that's relegation football. The lack of wins at the start of the season is coming back to haunt us.
McLeish is going to go down as the worst Villa manager since Graham Turner, and it's not really even his fault. He's inherited a shambolic, divided squad and is forced to play with the crap he has. The only thing I can fault him for is signing N'Zogbia, but even that is in hindsight.
He brought Heskey on because there was nobody else on the bench. I don't know what Clark or Ireland would have done differently.
We're now stuck with McLeish because we can't/won't afford to pay him off. The football is crap, the desire is missing and we're hurtling down the league. We've played more games than the teams beneath us, so 8th (or whatever it is now) is a false position.
I have to agree with you Tim. As much as it is belied by how clueless they seemed to have been in the last 12 months the board knew exactly what they were doing when they appointed McLeish. That is, getting a convenient scapegoat that would draw attention away from the real culprits for the state of our team this season. I said at the end of last season that we needed a decent central midfielder to hold the ball and also some new defenders. Instead, for whatever reason we lost a number of important players, none of whom (with the exception of Friedel who I'd probably rate as the least important of them) were adequately replaced. We were shit last season so how anyone can expect anything better than that this when we sold some of our better players is beyond me. We're basically relying on the same players who let us down last season but surrounded by poorer players this time round. I'm not saying McLeish is blameless. Jenas, Hutton and N'Zogbia have all been poor - at best - signings and today's tactical decisions were baffling (but not negative as his reputation seems to suggest) but there are far bigger culprits for our uninspiring team and performance. The most hurtful thing in this is that I'm not hurt. All I feel is a sort of resigned indifference. A resigned indifference that I've heard from many of the Villa fans I've talked to this season.
Today, we were not as bad as some imply. Up until the sending off we competed well. However, Herd was playing an important role for us and he was playing it well. After he went we struggled to keep the ball (which I felt that Herd did well when he was on) and we struggled to get the ball to our effective and creative players. Some people may point to the fact that we deserved to be reduced to 10 men anyway through the Hutton incident but that obscures the issue as we lost a good player who was doing an effective job rather than one who was something of a liability. Ultimately, it was the sending off that did for us as we lost our fluidity.
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Is anyone still happy with Alex McLeish as our manager?
2 wins out of 9. The 2 wins were against teams who are currently 19th and 20th at home.
We've won zilch away. We've now lost 2 in a row and December hasn't even arrived yet.
His win record % is absoutely pathetic considering the teams he has played. Man City and Everton being the most threatening teams so far and probably Newcastle considering their form. We still have Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs to play.
And he couldn't even compete in the Carling cup against a team who are currently 18th. Again, at home.
Today he couldn't even get the team to have 1, just one target at HOME.
Worst manager we've ever had. And the sad thing it was so predictable this would happen.
I still can't get my head around why we hired such an incompetent manager.
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Just got back, we looked comfortable up until the sending off. After that we fell apart. Haven't seen the sending off yet so no idea if it should have been given or not but it 100% changed the game.
Petrov was woeful today I thought, especially in the second half. The amount of times Gabby made a run and Petrov ignored him and played it sideways or backwards was ridiculous. Gabby or a set piece was the only way we were going to score in that second half. So play to Gabby's strength you fucking useless twats, get the ball to him when he's already started his run. Not when Gabby has had to stop and has his back to goal.
Bent, if he doesn't score he may as well not be on the park. I knew when we signed him he was primarily a goal scorer and not much else but had no idea how shit he was at everything else.
Whether a red card or not I thought Herd did okay in his brief appearance.
P.s. Fucking lucky shirt my arse!!
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We seem to have no hustle. We have too many players "waiting for someone else" to do it. Earth to McLeish - Our offensive system is not working.
Hutton, Heskey, Dunne and Collins wearing Villa shirts is pretty offensive to me.
But I don't think that's what you mean.
I thought three of those four were among our better players, I'd have put Dunne as clearly our best player.
In fairness, he's been better this season.
But for all the talk of our defensive lynchpins enjoying their football again and enjoying playing under McLeish, our defending hasn't been so hot really. Given has probably been our player of the season to date, which say's it all for me.
Yep, excellent point.
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Just got back, we looked comfortable up until the sending off. After that we fell apart. Haven't seen the sending off yet so no idea if it should have been given or not but it 100% changed the game.
THe question is PWS why did we fall apart? Why didn't McLeish make effective subs straight away and change tactics? How does havinga man short makes you crap at defending corners?
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I hate to be controversial but on whatever channel the live stream was on, they looked at the penalty incident after the game and it did look like a stamp on him. At the very least it was a " tread on" whether there was intent I m not so sure. The linesman did flag early for it.
That said we were awful. No shots on goal in open play is, i think, relegation fodder. I hop I m wrong. I have never been so " MEH" about my beloved club
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Phil Dowd you are a wanker.
Not his fault that we lost this one. I will hold my opinion till I have seen the MOTD. It's not his fault that we are shite at defending set pieces. Yes we were down to 10 and conceded 2 from corners. FFS how many men do we need to defend a corner properly?
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11 v 11 we're easily the better side,competitive, winning balls and creating the only chances.
Up step that fat fucking c*** Dowd and that's that.
Not saying Dowd isn't a ******, because he is.
But the Lino was the one who saw the incident
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McLeish's view:
"The sending-off cost us severely - no doubt about it. The kid had started the game really well and we were looking good at that point. In the pictures I have seen it looked as if Chris was extricating his foot from Jonas Olsson's grasp and Olsson didn't react to it. If you'd been stamped on, you'd expect the player to complain."
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Just got back, we looked comfortable up until the sending off. After that we fell apart. Haven't seen the sending off yet so no idea if it should have been given or not but it 100% changed the game.
THe question is PWS why did we fall apart? Why didn't McLeish make effective subs straight away and change tactics? How does havinga man short makes you crap at defending corners?
Well when we insist on having Bannan back defending them you know you're in trouble. The other problem is when you are down to 10 men you have to make possession count. Our passing and movement has been shocking for as long as I can remember, and continues to show no signs of improvement.
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I thought three of those four were among our better players, I'd have put Dunne as clearly our best player.
Really? Where was he on those two corners?
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I thought three of those four were among our better players, I'd have put Dunne as clearly our best player.
Really? Where was he on those two corners?
Certainly for the second one there's no reason Given couldn't have come to claim it. Actually, there's one reason - he's not very good at it.
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Just got back, we looked comfortable up until the sending off. After that we fell apart. Haven't seen the sending off yet so no idea if it should have been given or not but it 100% changed the game.
Petrov was woeful today I thought, especially in the second half. The amount of times Gabby made a run and Petrov ignored him and played it sideways or backwards was ridiculous. Gabby or a set piece was the only way we were going to score in that second half. So play to Gabby's strength you fucking useless twats, get the ball to him when he's already started his run. Not when Gabby has had to stop and has his back to goal.
Bent, if he doesn't score he may as well not be on the park. I knew when we signed him he was primarily a goal scorer and not much else but had no idea how shit he was at everything else.
Whether a red card or not I thought Herd did okay in his brief appearance.
P.s. Fucking lucky shirt my arse!!
Oh, and N'Zogbia was fucking wank yet again today.
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They scored twice from corners. If McLeish can't even drill Villa to defend set pieces, we are doomed.
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McLeish's view:
"The sending-off cost us severely - no doubt about it. The kid had started the game really well and we were looking good at that point. In the pictures I have seen it looked as if Chris was extricating his foot from Jonas Olsson's grasp and Olsson didn't react to it. If you'd been stamped on, you'd expect the player to complain."
He would have done if he was South American like Nunez the other night!This man our Manager needs to look at his own input post sending off not moan about it, Shit happens it's how you get out of it makes the man and the team.
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11 v 11 we're easily the better side,competitive, winning balls and creating the only chances.
Up step that fat fucking c*** Dowd and that's that.
Not saying Dowd isn't a c***, because he is.
But the Lino was the one who saw the incident
Its still the referees job to send him off.
The most crucial matter is Olsons' response. He doesn't react.
Every time that ****** is in charge he fucking costs us.
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it wasn't the sending off that cost us, more our reaction (or lack of) to it. Once the penalty was missed a forward should have been sacrificed (preferably Bent) to accommodate Clarke/Ireland to fill the gigantic hole that appeared in the centre of our midfield for the remaining 60 minutes of the game
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We lost because we are crap at defending corners again, earlier in the season I had hopes we'd sorted this out but we clearly haven't.
I didn't see the red card incident, however I was watching the pair as the corner came in and felt Olsson wrestled Herd to the ground, not sure why the linesman didn't flag for a free kick but if Herd stamped on him it would have been a red whether they were awarded a penalty or not.
I'm bemused as to why when we're playing long balls forward, we bring on the only striker in the squad capable of winning long balls in the air and play him in midfield, baffling decision.
We are so crap at passing the ball too, even simple passes seem a challenge, this was a problem long before McLeish arrived but he needs to sort that out, it's pitiful.
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McLeish's view:
"The sending-off cost us severely - no doubt about it. The kid had started the game really well and we were looking good at that point. In the pictures I have seen it looked as if Chris was extricating his foot from Jonas Olsson's grasp and Olsson didn't react to it. If you'd been stamped on, you'd expect the player to complain."
He would have done if he was South American like Nunez the other night!This man our Manager needs to look at his own input post sending off not moan about it, Shit happens it's how you get out of it makes the man and the team.
Bollocks.
You cannot gloss over a decision such as sending off. We were the better side, winning and looking comfortable. We then go down to ten men and lose a game after suddenly looking poor.
Its not hard to grasp what the critical element in that equation was is it.
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A worrying pattern seems to be developing,even in the games we drew we were pretty much dominated by the opposition,and we were fortunate with our early fixtures . But most of us on here were in agreement that the choice of the new manager was a bad choice,and it was nothing to do with his links to the blues,he's just an average manager,and we are now a very average team.
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As as it went 1-1 you just knew that was the end of us trying to win the game.
I fully expected us to lock up shop, defend deep and hope to scrape a draw.
Thats what our manager has done to us. With 45 mins left, I just knew there was no chance of us even trying to win the game.
Today is a real wake up call for me.
We don't want to compete anymore, we exist to exist. As a force we are dead, we'll never win anything againg we are just another team who muddle along and then celebrate the odd win against the big boys like we have a won a cup final - just like the baggies today.
That is our future.
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Not even a card for the west brom keeper. Have to assume he wasn't the last man
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Missed this game due to work. From reports it looks like we were unlucky with the sending off and the second goal fell fortunately for them. This about right or should McLeish and Lerner shoot themselves in the face tonight for the good of Aston?
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I can't remember when I felt so outright angry after a game. Such a shit sending off decision, exacerbated by McLeish not putting Clark on straight away, which may well have obviated the need to put Heskey on to achieve squat, though I can follow a line of logic that says we keep our ball-players on to keep possesion better - up to a point.
I am also angry at the situation McLeish has been put in, in the first place.
Some few players come out with credit, particularly Bannan who can't tackle to save his life, but tried hard to make it look like he might.
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Absolute total bobbins. Sending off doesn't come into it as Hutton should have gone anyway. With such a limited manager in charge and the rotten gutless individuals in our squad, its gonna be a long winter.
Time to panic
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It's just a Villa fan's luck that the year we bag an £18m/20 goals a season striker, we stitch ourselves up by hiring a feckin' useless, clod-hopper hoofball, clueless twat of a manager, with the creative flair of a week old skidmark.
What makes it worse is the fact that said clueless twat, who's supposed to be Mr Defensive, hasn't got a fucking scooby how to get his team to defend either. Which begs the question what's the fucking point of Alex Mcleish?
Bring back Gary McAllister I say!!
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What we badly need is a leader on the pitch. Herd was doing well but tending to get too excited and made a few rash challenges. Did any senior Villa player have a word? NO. How many players around Chris Herd are experienced premier league players and internationals? Virtually all of them. Did any of them have a word NO.
When the ref called Olsen and Herd over before the free kick, where was the Villa Captain? Missing. Did one of the vastly expereinced Villa defenders use their initiative and take over looking after Olsen? NO.
Phil Dowd - has questionable parentage and appears to hate the Villa but where was our LEADERS? NOWHERE.
We don't need world class, expensive players in the transfer window. We need an average player who can LEAD ON THE PITCH.
Then we might have a chance.
Rant over.
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Up until the sending off it was even, once down to 10 we didn't have the players on the pitch to cope with being a man down and AM didn't react to it. I've never seen a team of 10 men look like a team of 8.
Didn't see the sending off incident but Herd was close to the mark on a couple of occasions beforehand. Didn't see any appeal from Olsen, which says everything. Not Dowd's fault for the penalty / sending off, it was clearly a decision by the linesman.
At the game I didn't see any problem with Hutton's tackle, looked very firm, but certainly nothing illegal.
Our midfield is simply not good enough for the Premier League.
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Dreadful display and as brainless as any I've seen at VP over the past few seasons. Some teams are galvanised by a sending off but we just seemed to lose any idea of how to play football. It's almost as if they are carrying on where Houllier left off. Really, really poor.
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Dowd usless fat chunt,Mcleish looking more like a useless chunt .10 men maybe but he oylbion took the piss that's how bad we were today.
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P.S. Phil Dowd you're such a faggot.
And if you don't cut out the homophobic language you can find another message board to post on.
You gonna ban anyone that will use offensive insults the ref? lol
No, I'm going to ban people who use homophobic abuse. Just as I would ban people for using racist abuse.
So stop it.
I don't think he is guilty of homophobic abuse...
He insulted Phil Dowd.
He did not insult any homosexual people.
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The Hutton challenge was extremely heavy, he clearly wins the ball and is there well before Long, which is why it bounced off Long and out for a throw but he did seem to go in with more force than he needed.
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P.S. Phil Dowd you're such a faggot.
And if you don't cut out the homophobic language you can find another message board to post on.
You gonna ban anyone that will use offensive insults the ref? lol
No, I'm going to ban people who use homophobic abuse. Just as I would ban people for using racist abuse.
So stop it.
I don't think he is guilty of homophobic abuse...
He insulted Phil Dowd.
He did not insult any homosexual people.
He insulted them by likening a fat, useless c*** of a ref to them.
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Up until the sending off it was even, once down to 10 we didn't have the players on the pitch to cope with being a man down and AM didn't react to it. I've never seen a team of 10 men look like a team of 8.
Good point, I was complaining at one stage that we were only down to ten men, Albion were getting into situations where they had two or three men spare.
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Sending off doesn't come into it
Hmmm. We should somehow mark the occasion of being the first team to ever go from a winning position to losing the game after a red card that had no bearing on the outcome. Perhaps we should start our next game with 9 players, seeing as though it will make no difference having a numerical disadvantage.........
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When Mcleish came in I predicted poor results, poor football and poor attendances... hate to say I told you so Randy. I guess there are thousands of other Villa fans now thinking along similar lines. Dreadful today and overall a very poor start to the season. Once we get hammered by Liverpool, Chelsea and Man Utd we will really be in trouble.
I remain convinced we'll be in the bottom three at Xmas.
Has Martin Laursen got his coaching badges yet? He'd be the ideal rescue man when Mcleish goes in the new year.
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Up until the sending off it was even, once down to 10 we didn't have the players on the pitch to cope with being a man down and AM didn't react to it. I've never seen a team of 10 men look like a team of 8.
Good point, I was complaining at one stage that we were only down to ten men, Albion were getting into situations where they had two or three men spare.
They went three at the back and we struggled to get hold of the ball.
All this crap about "well Hutton should have walked so...", when Herd was part of the reason we'd started the better side and was controlling the game. You looked at the bench and there wasn't a midfielder worth a punt amongst them.
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Am I the only person who can't see a midfielder in Ivanhoe for the life of me?
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As as it went 1-1 you just knew that was the end of us trying to win the game.
I fully expected us to lock up shop, defend deep and hope to scrape a draw.
Thats what our manager has done to us. With 45 mins left, I just knew there was no chance of us even trying to win the game.
Today is a real wake up call for me.
We don't want to compete anymore, we exist to exist. As a force we are dead, we'll never win anything againg we are just another team who muddle along and then celebrate the odd win against the big boys like we have a won a cup final - just like the baggies today.
That is our future.
I feel quite the same. To be honest, I am starting to get emotionally detached from the club and I suspect other fans are beginning to feel the same. There needs to be serious changes at the top to stop this slide.
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When Mcleish came in I predicted poor results, poor football and poor attendances... hate to say I told you so Randy. I guess there are thousands of other Villa fans now thinking along similar lines. Dreadful today and overall a very poor start to the season. Once we get hammered by Liverpool, Chelsea and Man Utd we will really be in trouble.
I remain convinced we'll be in the bottom three at Xmas.
Has Martin Laursen got his coaching badges yet? He'd be the ideal rescue man when Mcleish goes in the new year.
Almost every Villa fan is angry and frustrated at the moment, but then they were angry and frustrated in July. Because almost every Villa fan could see this coming, and steel yourselves, it's going to get a lot fuckin' worse than this.
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when Mcleish goes in the new year.
Now that is seriously optomistic.
1, It's the best job he is ever likely to get and so will not walk.
2, We have already spent millions tapping him up in the first place so cannot afford to sack him.
3, Randy knows that there is no manager of any decent standard that would work under the limitations currently in place. That's how why got the useless numpty in the first place.
No, Alex McLeish is here for a while sadly.
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when Mcleish goes in the new year.
Now that is seriously optomistic.
1, It's the best job he is ever likely to get and so will not walk.
2, We have already spent millions tapping him up in the first place so cannot afford to sack him.
3, Randy knows that there is no manager of any decent standard that would work under the limitations currently in place. That's how why got the useless numpty in the first place.
No, Alex McLeish is here for a while sadly.
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Almost every Villa fan is angry and frustrated at the moment, but then they were angry and frustrated in July. Because almost every Villa fan could see this coming, and steel yourselves, it's going to get a lot fuckin' worse than this.
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The sending off turned the game no question.
Dowd is undoubtedly a useless prick and we should do a Ferguson and just object everytime he is put as our referee.
I cannot however excuse the gutless, pathetic efforts we showed after the sending off though. To concede from a bog standard set piece on the stroke of half time is criminal, and then again in the 2nd half just isn't good enough.
Albion didn't even have to work for the points. We put no pressure on them when they had the ball, we just laid down and died.
Sadly we don't have many technically gifted players and we seem to have even fewer who are willing to put in a shift. N'Zogbia and Heskey.... jesus christ boys at least look fucking interested.
Not being the most technically gifted team in the league I can deal with, a lack of effort I just can't and that is what I see at the moment, too many players who just don't give a shit.
I'm not sure why the uproar about the Hutton challenge though, we were in line with it in the Witton Lane stand and Hutton got to the ball well before Long, kicked it against him and his follow through caught Long. None of the Albion players seemed bothered, nor the useless tit Dowd. Everyone around and including me just thought it was a good solid challenge.
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As as it went 1-1 you just knew that was the end of us trying to win the game.
I fully expected us to lock up shop, defend deep and hope to scrape a draw.
Thats what our manager has done to us. With 45 mins left, I just knew there was no chance of us even trying to win the game.
Today is a real wake up call for me.
We don't want to compete anymore, we exist to exist. As a force we are dead, we'll never win anything againg we are just another team who muddle along and then celebrate the odd win against the big boys like we have a won a cup final - just like the baggies today.
That is our future.
I feel quite the same. To be honest, I am starting to get emotionally detached from the club and I suspect other fans are beginning to feel the same. There needs to be serious changes at the top to stop this slide.
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Let's not kid ourselves that Dowd to or the linesman are to blame here, the sending off was dubious to say the least but it merely balanced out the decision not to red card Hutton for a leg-breaker of a lunge on Long. And let's not pretend it's all Heskey's fault either. I felt he actually did okay considering he was asked to do something bizarrely unusual for him. The truth is our old propensity to defend appalingly at set pieces re-merged at Eastlands last week and continued this week. Ditto our tendency to fail utterly to hold on to the ball for more than two passes. And as mentioned earlier, other teams manage to make a fight of it when down to 10 men (we managed to lose to WBA last year and drop two points to QPR after both had been reduced to 10 men) yet we just go into flap mode and effectively concede defeat. After a gentle yet uninspiring start to the season Mcleish is beginning to be found out I fear. N'Zogbia has contributed little or nothing so far but according to him he needs to be played on the left wing to be effective. Perhaps McLeish should consider it. A special mention for two players, Hutton who managed to make Warnock's most brainless, self-destructive performances look Einsteinian in comparison to his moronic contribution today, and Warnock, who I generally think is shit, but who I thought showed a lot of commitment and not a little skill today.
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Anybody who thinks the sending off didn't change things is living in cloud cuckoo land. We couldn't get the ball at times in the second half but when we had it we didn't use it well enough.
Their first goal was crucial and today we've conceded two poor goals from set plays. We didn't lack passion or fight, we lacked genuine nous when we were in possession with 10 men. I'd have brought Clark on in midfield, but he never and we lost.
It's not the first time a linesman has got involved in a big decision, but it certainly changed the game.
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Almost every Villa fan is angry and frustrated at the moment, but then they were angry and frustrated in July. Because almost every Villa fan could see this coming, and steel yourselves, it's going to get a lot fuckin' worse than this.
Yep,you didnt need a crystal ball to predict this.
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Barely adequate until the sending off, then utterly all over the shop after. I can maybe just - just - about see some reason to bring Heskey on in midfield at 1-1 if he thinks he'd stiffen us up, but why when we are losing 2-1?
Hutton - who continues to be fucking abysmal - was lucky not to get sent off. The defence looked like they'd reverted to last season.
We are a pretty poor football side, with a squad lacking in strength, and with a manager who is soon going to start to feel the pressure if we don't start winning games.
Another abysmal crowd and an owner absolutely nowhere to be seen,and a growing sense of doom about the place. Villa Park these days screams mediocrity, and itbs going to get much worse.
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Only good thing about today? The return of The Beard - welcome back Olof's Beard.
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As someone said earlier, loads of teams get players sent off, They don't automatically turn to shite when it happens though. Often the opposite in fact
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As someone said earlier, loads of teams get players sent off, They don't automatically turn to shite when it happens though. Often the opposite in fact
It happens all the while.
We were the better side when Herd was on. Bollocks to all this "barely adequote" shite. After the sending off, we were disjointed and poor.
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Poor on so many levels.
One shot - a penalty - in 90 minutes.
L
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Making that lot look like Barcelona is VERY concerning.
Long balls to Bent's head and taken like candy from a baby by the defender all day long s just not good enough.
I can't even name a department in the team that looks any good, so where to start ?
Poor gate, poor display, poor Management, complete lack of direction on and off the pitch = Villa 2011.
Optimism can only carry the most ardent fans so far, action needed.
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Bollocks back at you if you think there was anything remarkable about us prior to the sending off.
It was be same unimaginativeness we've seen for much of the season. Petrov was the only midfielder who seemed to be entirely awake.
As for N'Zogbia, you could be forgiven for not realising he was on the pitch until he scuttled off.
The response to the sending off was pathetic. It is also frankly terrifying to see the reemergence of last season's comedic defending of set pieces.
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Poor on so many levels.
One shot - a penalty - in 90 minutes.
L
Bent should have scored from 8 yards out and wee Barry was a few inches away from a pealer.
And then Herd was sent off. Which apparently irrelevant to some.
Death to McLeish and other such shite.
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Who has said the red card was irrelevant?
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I'm sure the linesman had his flag up for that Bent shot (doesn't excuse Bent missing it though). I just assumed that because the ball went out of play anyway they just played on rather than give the free kick.
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I'm going to give a bit of balance on the red card...
I watched part of the incident and saw herds leg swing up and it did look to me like a stamp. My initial reaction was to see if the linesman had seen it.
As soon as I saw him flag I said herd was on his way. My view was in direct line from the Trinity upper and it looked a bloody stupid tackle by Herd.
With the linesman only seeing it once I'm not surprised he was sent off
NZog was almost invisible again, so we played with 9 men for a large part of the game
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I'm going to give a bit of balance on the red card...
I watched part of the incident and saw herds leg swing up and it did look to me like a stamp. My initial reaction was to see if the linesman had seen it.
As soon as I saw him flag I said herd was on his way. My view was in direct line from the Trinity upper and it looked a bloody stupid tackle by Herd.
With the linesman only seeing it once I'm not surprised he was sent off
NZog was almost invisible again, so we played with 9 men for a large part of the game
8 if you include Bent.
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I don't think anyone has said the sending off was irrelevant.
I think the anger is with the way we just rolled over after it.
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Who has said the red card was irrelevant?
Greg Nash for a start and all those who believe that it was balanced up with Hutton staying on.
A major blunder was made and it affected us in a massive, massive way.
Its all quite simple. We went from being very comfortable to being very disjointed, with Blakey being able to stick even more men in the midfield for most of the second half.
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Even after an hour's drive back,lots of thinking time, and a large glass of wine, I just don't know where to begin with that. Edging it prior to a very dubious red card (thank-you 'assistant referee'), but maybe Hutton should have gone anyway for his tackle on Long. West Brom played pretty well - Tchoiy was a real handful and couldn't understand why uncle Woy didn't start with him. What's really worrying was the lack of fight in the second half. OK it was 10 v 11, so change to 4-4-1 and hold onto the ball more. But we just couldn't do the simple stuff. No shots on target at home in a local derby. Conceding from set pieces. Baffling substitutions - if you can't get service to Bent take him off and get some creativity in midfield rather than watch Heskey ambling around. If N'Zogbia and Hutton are the standard of our signings now I really fear for the future. We look a very poor side.
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I was in the lower Holte and could see the incident clearly, Olsson had hold of Herds foot and Herd was trying to free himself, it was never a sending off.
Olsson was on 5-Live after and said that Herd had kicked/back heeled him he never used the word stamp and he should know
It was a definate penalty
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Who has said the red card was irrelevant?
Greg Nash for a start and all those who believe that it was balanced up with Hutton staying on.
A major blunder was made and it affected us in a massive, massive way.
Its all quite simple. We went from being very comfortable to being very disjointed, with Blakey being able to stick even more men in the midfield for most of the second half.
Who has said the red card was irrelevant?
Greg Nash for a start and all those who believe that it was balanced up with Hutton staying on.
A major blunder was made and it affected us in a massive, massive way.
Its all quite simple. We went from being very comfortable to being very disjointed, with Blakey being able to stick even more men in the midfield for most of the second half.
So we wouldn't have been disjointed if Hutton had got sent off? We got lucky on one decision and unlucky on the other. Unless your saying Herd is our star player??
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I seem to remember that when we played them in sandwell last year, they seemed to cope alright with their 10 men against our 11
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As for N'Zogbia well the less said the better.....................
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Who has said the red card was irrelevant?
Greg Nash for a start and all those who believe that it was balanced up with Hutton staying on.
A major blunder was made and it affected us in a massive, massive way.
Its all quite simple. We went from being very comfortable to being very disjointed, with Blakey being able to stick even more men in the midfield for most of the second half.
Who has said the red card was irrelevant?
Greg Nash for a start and all those who believe that it was balanced up with Hutton staying on.
A major blunder was made and it affected us in a massive, massive way.
Its all quite simple. We went from being very comfortable to being very disjointed, with Blakey being able to stick even more men in the midfield for most of the second half.
So we wouldn't have been disjointed if Hutton had got sent off? We got lucky on one decision and unlucky on the other. Unless your saying Herd is our star player??
Herd did well. Hutton was shit. Had Hutton been sent off it would have had much less of an effect.
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Who has said the red card was irrelevant?
Greg Nash for a start and all those who believe that it was balanced up with Hutton staying on.
A major blunder was made and it affected us in a massive, massive way.
Its all quite simple. We went from being very comfortable to being very disjointed, with Blakey being able to stick even more men in the midfield for most of the second half.
Well it wasn't irrelevant after Hutton was allowed to stay on the pitch.
My viewpoint is that the decisions did balance up though, so I'm not going to get overly angry about Herd being sent off, without admitting feeling incredibly lucky that Hutton didn't.
The overall result of the game was right.
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No we wouldn't.
Losing Hutton would not have had as much of an effect as losing Herd, who was part of the reason why we were the better side until the sending off.
We could start without Hutton and it wouldn't make too much difference.
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As for N'Zogbia well the less said the better.....................
On that note, mods, could I please have my name changed back to Holtenderinthesky? Thanks. ;)
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First time I have ever left Villa Park before the final whistle.
Left on the 85th minute, from the sound of things didn't miss anything further than more disappointment and managed to get home an hour earlier by catching an earlier train.
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In reality it could have been a hammering for us.
Whilst we didn't have a shot on target, Albion,
missed a pen
had a goal disallowed
brought 1 paticular great save from Shay
missed an absolute sitter at the death.
We got off lightly I think.
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Losing Hutton would have had almost exactly the same effect, as in that event Herd would have probably gone to right back and we'd have had the same shortfall in midfield.
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There is just a massive dark cloud over Villa Park at the moment. It's not going to go away unless Randy makes some serious improvements.
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Who has said the red card was irrelevant?
Greg Nash for a start and all those who believe that it was balanced up with Hutton staying on.
A major blunder was made and it affected us in a massive, massive way.
Its all quite simple. We went from being very comfortable to being very disjointed, with Blakey being able to stick even more men in the midfield for most of the second half.
Who has said the red card was irrelevant?
Greg Nash for a start and all those who believe that it was balanced up with Hutton staying on.
A major blunder was made and it affected us in a massive, massive way.
Its all quite simple. We went from being very comfortable to being very disjointed, with Blakey being able to stick even more men in the midfield for most of the second half.
So we wouldn't have been disjointed if Hutton had got sent off? We got lucky on one decision and unlucky on the other. Unless your saying Herd is our star player??
Herd did well. Hutton was shit. Had Hutton been sent off it would have had much less of an effect.
and how do you know that? someone would have had to play in huttons place
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Was Hutton's a sending off?
Seemed a very meaty tackle to me against a typical leg dangling centre forward.
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Extremely worried about the direction we are heading under the current owner- if he can no longer afford to invest and sees survival or midtable as the goal then I would prefer him to say so and look for someone who can take the club forward- he has given it his best shot and narrowly failed but the slide in recent months is deeply worrying.
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No we wouldn't.
Losing Hutton would not have had as much of an effect as losing Herd, who was part of the reason why we were the better side until the sending off.
We could start without Hutton and it wouldn't make too much difference.
All it would have meant is that Herd would have gone to right back and we'd still have been badly overrun in midfield.
The second Herd was sent off, Clark should have come on for N'Zogbia. Petrov and Bannan was never going to work. Amazed our manager couldn't see that.
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Losing Hutton would have had almost exactly the same effect, as in that event Herd would have probably gone to right back and we'd have had the same shortfall in midfield.
No, you'd take N'Zogbia off and keep the midfield solid with three.
Blakey may still go three at the back, but at least you'd have three central players to compete.
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Was Hutton's a sending off?
Seemed a very meaty tackle to me against a typical leg dangling centre forward.
was my view of it from the witton lane stand and of all those around, about the only decent thing hutton did!
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Was Hutton's a sending off?
Seemed a very meaty tackle to me against a typical leg dangling centre forward.
two footed i thought
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Was Hutton's a sending off?
Seemed a very meaty tackle to me against a typical leg dangling centre forward.
I refuse to accept 'meaty' as an acceptable description of a tackle where he seemed to lose control of his body and could have inflicted serious injury to the opponent as a result.
Also, with three at the back we might well have been slaughtered out wide, with only one player on each of their full-back/winger pairings.
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Was Hutton's a sending off?
Seemed a very meaty tackle to me against a typical leg dangling centre forward.
No question in my opinion. Lunged off the ground, with way too much force. Shane Long is very lucky not to be out of action for a year.
If an Albion player had made that tackle we'd all be going berserk.
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Anyone who thinks Hutton's challenge was okay just because he won the ball should read the laws of the game as follows:
"A player is guilty of serious foul play if he uses excessive force or brutality against an opponent when challenging for the ball when it is in play.
A tackle that endangers the safety of an opponent must be sanctioned as serious foul play.
Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force and endangering the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.
Any player who is guilty of serious foul play should be sent off...."
Winning the ball is irrelevant, Hutton lunged in with both feet off the ground, endangered his opponent to the extent where he had to limp off injured, and was very lucky to stay on the pitch.
For that matter so was Billy Jones for his over the top challenge on Zog at the end of the first half.
Dowd was also right not to send off Foster, nothing to do with being last man, that's irrelevant bullshit spouted by lazy fuckwit MOTD pundits like Shearer and Hansen. The rule is about denying a goalscoring opportunity. Gabby nicked the ball but he was never going to control it and score. Foul but no red card.
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Was Hutton's a sending off?
Seemed a very meaty tackle to me against a typical leg dangling centre forward.
I refuse to accept 'meaty' as an acceptable description of a tackle where he seemed to lose control of his body and could have inflicted serious injury to the opponent as a result.
Also, with three at the back we might well have been slaughtered out wide, with only one player on each of their full-back/winger pairings.
I haven't suggested we went three at the back, I am stating that Blakey had the Olbyion go three at the back for large chunks of the second half with Reid or Jones wandering high into the midfield.
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Seems somewhat unfair to bag McLeish today, as the sending off definitely turned the game. And we have been unbeaten for the opening few months of the season.
But:
-A brace of goals conceded today against dross like the Olbiyun
-Two conceded away to Everton - with their well documented problems up top
-Two against Bolton at home in the cup (with virtually a first choice backline)
- 4 conceded against a Man Citeh side that barely had to get out of second gear
And a joke of a goal conceded to QPR away in injury time.
These have all occured during our supposedly 'easier' run too. I genuinely hope the Citeah result isn't a portent of things to come against the better sides.
Our lack of creativity, guile, movement off the ball and service for Bent are not hugely surprising if we're honest. Anyone who knew anything about McLeish pre Villa would say there was a better than average chance of some (maybe all) of those things coming to pass.
But our defence hasn't improved dramatically on his watch -and that's supposed to be his forté. If he isn't even bringing that to the table, he isn't really bringing anything at all.
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Well the Herd red card is on Youtube and it is not.
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It weren't a sending off. Beats me how anyone can claim it was. As for being a stamp even the guy fouled claimed it was a kick
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Was Hutton's a sending off?
Seemed a very meaty tackle to me against a typical leg dangling centre forward.
I refuse to accept 'meaty' as an acceptable description of a tackle where he seemed to lose control of his body and could have inflicted serious injury to the opponent as a result.
Also, with three at the back we might well have been slaughtered out wide, with only one player on each of their full-back/winger pairings.
I haven't suggested we went three at the back, I am stating that Blakey had the Olbyion go three at the back for large chunks of the second half with Reid or Jones wandering high into the midfield.
I see. Put that down to a misread then, eh.
Just found some statistics. About halfway down the page.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,,11096_2705370,00+en-USS_01DBC.html
We are 18th in the league for passes completed and 20th for shots on target. That has to be unacceptable, really.
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I'm not convinced Foster shouldn't have gone. Watch the slow mo on this and I reckon Gabby would have had the chance of a shot as their player was basically stood still when Gabby nicked it.
Also has the Herd challenge on.
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Was Hutton's a sending off?
Seemed a very meaty tackle to me against a typical leg dangling centre forward.
I refuse to accept 'meaty' as an acceptable description of a tackle where he seemed to lose control of his body and could have inflicted serious injury to the opponent as a result.
Also, with three at the back we might well have been slaughtered out wide, with only one player on each of their full-back/winger pairings.
I haven't suggested we went three at the back, I am stating that Blakey had the Olbyion go three at the back for large chunks of the second half with Reid or Jones wandering high into the midfield.
I see. Put that down to a misread then, eh.
Just found some statistics. About halfway down the page.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,,11096_2705370,00+en-USS_01DBC.html
We are 18th in the league for passes completed and 20th for shots on target. That has to be unacceptable, really.
It is unacceptable, but not especially suprising.
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FUCKIN SWANSEA have nearly double the amount of successful passes that we do.
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looks like hutton could be in trouble. serious knee injury according to Hodgeson
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15415631.stm
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I'm not convinced Foster shouldn't have gone. Watch the slow mo on this and I reckon Gabby would have had the chance of a shot as their player was basically stood still when Gabby nicked it.
It definitely wasn't a sending off.
There was no clear goalscoring opportunity. For that to be the case, the player has to be pretty much in full control of the ball and running directly towards goal. As soon as the ball is going away from the goal (which it was in this case) then there's no red card.
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Heskey in holding midfield. What?
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We were close to the "linesman" who managed to miss Olsen's "swing" and yet managed to spot a sending off offence and penalty seconds later. Totally f'kin inept.
I thought Herd was doing really well until that. Then we just completely fell apart - I said to my mate at one point that we were making Albion look like Brazil 1970 in the 2nd half.
AM went to press midweek, talking about dropping players who can't defend set-pieces. I expect a few changes before we see the Villa again then AM.
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we were well in control today. the sending off changed everything. all this bleating about tactics is bullshit! so disappointed in the black country here and i had to come home with the twats!
watched the sending off incident 20 times and the linesman and dowd are arseholes! what the fuck does he think he saw? both players just get up and jog towards the edge of the area. i am so angry i cannot believe it! Wankers!
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Heskey in holding midfield. What?
Maybe the Beckenbauer analogy has been taken too far.
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looking at our fixtures up to the new year its not looking promising. Norwich at home looks the only real banker but with the way we're playing and their form i'm not sure we can even count on that. Reckon AM has got till the end of November before the knives really come out.
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I'm sure the linesman had his flag up for that Bent shot (doesn't excuse Bent missing it though). I just assumed that because the ball went out of play anyway they just played on rather than give the free kick.
Completely wrong. If he had his flag up he was incompetent. Bent was clearly played on side by two defenders. It was a bad miss,and would have counted if it had gone in.
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we were well in control today. the sending off changed everything. all this bleating about tactics is bullshit! so disappointed in the black country here and i had to come home with the twats!
watched the sending off incident 20 times and the linesman and dowd are arseholes! what the fuck does he think he saw? both players just get up and jog towards the edge of the area. i am so angry i cannot believe it! Wankers!
Spurs won at a canter against us last season, even though they played most of the game with 10 men. Olbian beat us at their end with 10 men. Going down to 10 men is a good test of character. Villa obviously have none whatsoever.
You would have thought we would have gone all out for a goal, being a derby and all that. The fact that our tactics didn't change after we first went down to 10 men, shows we were playing like we had 10 men anyway.
Also, the non-existant depth to our squad is showing already, and it's only October is worrying.
We have yet to play anyone of note, apart from Citeh, and we were found wanting in that game.
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And Norwich just got a draw at anfield.
I have just had a look at the opta stats link from the page before - and those are the figures for the games played so far - apart from Man City I havent seen a decent player yet - says it all.
Worrying times.
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we were well in control today. the sending off changed everything. all this bleating about tactics is bullshit! so disappointed in the black country here and i had to come home with the twats!
watched the sending off incident 20 times and the linesman and dowd are arseholes! what the fuck does he think he saw? both players just get up and jog towards the edge of the area. i am so angry i cannot believe it! Wankers!
Agree mate, I can't be arsed to read the thread and see people try to fit it to their pet theories. Shit refereeing dd for us today. We're not a strong or confident enough side to deal with playing with 10 mem for an hour.
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I'm not convinced Foster shouldn't have gone. Watch the slow mo on this and I reckon Gabby would have had the chance of a shot as their player was basically stood still when Gabby nicked it.
Also has the Herd challenge on.
(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/3676/capturenno.jpg)
Looks like a stamp at 1:12 to me?
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Yes the referee and linesman were wrong on herd but that said I would expect far more from ten men against an average Albion team - no shots on target apart from the penalty is simply not good enough- the fixtures have been kind and just 2 wins against the worst teams in the division suggests a long hard winter of discontent lies ahead.
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we were well in control today. the sending off changed everything. all this bleating about tactics is bullshit! so disappointed in the black country here and i had to come home with the twats!
watched the sending off incident 20 times and the linesman and dowd are arseholes! what the fuck does he think he saw? both players just get up and jog towards the edge of the area. i am so angry i cannot believe it! Wankers!
Agree mate, I can't be arsed to read the thread and see people try to fit it to their pet theories. Shit refereeing dd for us today. We're not a strong or confident enough side to deal with playing with 10 mem for an hour.
Yep a decent referee in all future games and no red cards and our woeful deficiencies defending set pieces, retaining possession or mustering a shot on target from open play will miraculously disappear. All sorted then, nothing to worry about.
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We play no passing football whatsoever. Hit and hope - and that was before we went down to 10 men. We will be in the bottom six by Xmas playing the way we do.
We show absolutey no movement off the ball either. It was never great under MON but it's even worse now.
One final point -no-one will convince me that Makoun couldn't have played a significant part in this squad. We are crying out for someone who can help us keep the ball.
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we were well in control today. the sending off changed everything. all this bleating about tactics is bullshit! so disappointed in the black country here and i had to come home with the twats!
watched the sending off incident 20 times and the linesman and dowd are arseholes! what the fuck does he think he saw? both players just get up and jog towards the edge of the area. i am so angry i cannot believe it! Wankers!
Agree mate, I can't be arsed to read the thread and see people try to fit it to their pet theories. Shit refereeing dd for us today. We're not a strong or confident enough side to deal with playing with 10 mem for an hour.
I'll second/third that; we were looking comfortable until the comedy sending off/penalty decision and I am so angry at today's result.
Yes we were piss poor in the second half but let's look at that in the context of what went on in the first half. No doubt Herd's red card will be rescinded but it's all a bit late then and only bound to make me more angry!
No idea what to make of today really but never ever want to see Phil Dowd anywhere near a Villa game again
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I must admit from that still photo posted by goodie it does look as though herd may not be as innocent as first appeared.
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I said it after last weeks game but was chastised for it, when something goes against us we do not have the bottle to come back fighting. Where is the team spirit. We are a team of individuals who just want to play their own game and not help others.
We have two experienced central defenders who cannot organise a defence for set-pieces. How many time do we get caught flat-footed.
I always belief that you can judge how good a player is by looking at his weakest points, not his strongest.
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Fact of it is, regardless of the events that took place during the first half the 2nd half was a whole new ball game, any team can be organized to soak up the pressure and more often than not 10 men can be better than 11, the team was tactically inept for the 2nd 45, we got overrun, thing also to remember for a fair spell in the 2nd half WBA lost a lot of momentum, a better team at home would have made them pay for that, I'm amazed we didn't lose by a lot more, fortunately this was Albion, dread to think what would have happened if we were playing one of the top sides.
We are away to Sunderland next, I wouldn't hold to much hope out on that one, then we really are in a spin, this could get very murky indeed.
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We play no passing football whatsoever. Hit and hope - and that was before we went down to 10 men. We will be in the bottom six by Xmas playing the way we do.
We show absolutey no movement off the ball either. It was never great under MON but it's even worse now.
One final point -no-one will convince me that Makoun couldn't have played a significant part in this squad. We are crying out for someone who can help us keep the ball.
sorry nick, were you watching the same game? bannons shot, bents effort over the bar and only a shot over the bar from 30 yards from the albion. who cares what anyone thinks about the game after the sending off, we were fucked and if you think any team plays a tight passing game with ten men for 63 minutes you are on different planet!
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In all my years at Villa Park I saw a "first" today.
A bloke fast asleep - leant on his mates shoulder. This was in the first half too! He was out for at least 20 minutes!
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I thought we looked ok until the sending off, but no better than that.
The two goals we conceded weren't down to the 10 men factor, they were down to the inability to adequately defend set pieces.
I don't think the players and coaching staff should be immune to criticism because of the sending off. The second half was woeful.
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We play no passing football whatsoever. Hit and hope - and that was before we went down to 10 men. We will be in the bottom six by Xmas playing the way we do.
We show absolutey no movement off the ball either. It was never great under MON but it's even worse now.
One final point -no-one will convince me that Makoun couldn't have played a significant part in this squad. We are crying out for someone who can help us keep the ball.
sorry nick, were you watching the same game? bannons shot, bents effort over the bar and only a shot over the bar from 30 yards from the albion. who cares what anyone thinks about the game after the sending off, we were fucked and if you think any team plays a tight passing game with ten men for 63 minutes you are on different planet!
Tottenham seemed to cope quite well when outplaying us for an hour with 10 men last season.
Obviously its difficult, and I in no way expected us to win the game. However, the performance in the second half was far worse than it should have been, even with 10 men.
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I thought we looked ok until the sending off, but no better than that.
The two goals we conceded weren't down to the 10 men factor, they were down to the inability to adequately defend set pieces.
I don't think the players and coaching staff should be immune to criticism because of the sending off. The second half was woeful.
yep. for someone who's supposed to be that much better at the defensive side than Houllier, its not exactly a staggering improvement is it? As i said at the time, should have got rid of the rotten players not the manager.
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We play no passing football whatsoever. Hit and hope - and that was before we went down to 10 men. We will be in the bottom six by Xmas playing the way we do.
We show absolutey no movement off the ball either. It was never great under MON but it's even worse now.
One final point -no-one will convince me that Makoun couldn't have played a significant part in this squad. We are crying out for someone who can help us keep the ball.
sorry nick, were you watching the same game? bannons shot, bents effort over the bar and only a shot over the bar from 30 yards from the albion. who cares what anyone thinks about the game after the sending off, we were fucked and if you think any team plays a tight passing game with ten men for 63 minutes you are on different planet!
That's the point, its part and parcel of any teams training programme to learn how to retain possession and how to reorganize in such an event, if we can't hold onto a point against a team like WBA then something is badly wrong.
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I must admit from that still photo posted by goodie it does look as though herd may not be as innocent as first appeared.
Herd's boot definitely landed on Olssen's body. However it looked to me as if Herd trod on Ollsen ofter Ollsen fell over and under Herd's feet. If you look at it Herd is looking away from Ollsen, and probably didn't know where Ollsen was. From the long distance shot it looked as if Herd lashed out at Ollsen while he was down. The closer up version it looked as if Herd's foot got caught up by Olssen after he accidentally trod on him, and he just yanked it free. Which to the linesman could have looked as if he lashed out. Olssen didn't appeal, which should tell the linesman something.
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I was surprised by the way we lined up with Herd in front of the defence and Bent on his todd up front. Very defensive for a game in which we should be looking to win.
Saying that, Herd played well up until the sending off - proper tenacious.
Albion denied a pen when Collins handballed early on. Surpised the lino missed that.
Once we conceded the first goal on the stroke of half time the writing was on the wall. Midfield is shite.
Nzog is the new Ireland - he can't be arsed for some reason.
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Albion denied a pen when Collins handballed early on. Surpised the lino missed that.
Huh?
Are you talking about the time when the ball was hit into his midriff from six yards while his arms were by his sides?
You do know that handball has to be deliberate for it to be an offence?
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A mix of championship players and merceneries along with a championship manager! This side and management team will not keep us in the league.
Bent will be sold in January and Bannan and Clark will go in the summer. Ireland and Nzogbia are just mercenaries and if they were any good they wouldn't be at the Villa.
Most annoying thing is that all of this could have been avoided. Everyone knew Mcleish would play this type of football, but the blame lies with the board for appointing him.
I honestly think we will be fighting for our lives by May. averaging a point per game will send you down.
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Agreed dave, just watching the rerun on football first and the ball never touched Collins arm at all.
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Sending off changed the game as we looked in control up until then but thereafter it was woeful, woeful stuff. Still reeling from the decision to take Bannan off, remarkable. We look bottom six.
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I must admit from that still photo posted by goodie it does look as though herd may not be as innocent as first appeared.
Got to say just had a good long hard look at this from 1.10 onwards and if that was an opposing defender doing that on a Villa player i would be screaming blue murder, well done the poster for sticking that up, because it certainly looks the right decision, not only does Herd put his foot in the first time you can see he glances down at Olson the 2nd time, with his boot left in, so its difficult to explain that he couldn't have seen what he was doing.
who knows......
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We play no passing football whatsoever. Hit and hope - and that was before we went down to 10 men. We will be in the bottom six by Xmas playing the way we do.
We show absolutey no movement off the ball either. It was never great under MON but it's even worse now.
One final point -no-one will convince me that Makoun couldn't have played a significant part in this squad. We are crying out for someone who can help us keep the ball.
sorry nick, were you watching the same game? bannons shot, bents effort over the bar and only a shot over the bar from 30 yards from the albion. who cares what anyone thinks about the game after the sending off, we were fucked and if you think any team plays a tight passing game with ten men for 63 minutes you are on different planet!
That's the point, its part and parcel of any teams training programme to learn how to retain possession and how to reorganize in such an event, if we can't hold onto a point against a team like WBA then something is badly wrong.
load of arse! when you play 10 v 11 for over 2/3rds of the match you usually come unstuck! there is only so much of leaving the extra man and shuffling over when play gets there you can do!
The ref is a wanker and his linesman a bigger one. plus the linesman was watching all this 'stamping through olsens back as he wasnt even the right side of the incident. The reason the players went mental was because herd was sent off for fuck all!
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I'm not convinced Foster shouldn't have gone. Watch the slow mo on this and I reckon Gabby would have had the chance of a shot as their player was basically stood still when Gabby nicked it.
Also has the Herd challenge on.
(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/3676/capturenno.jpg)
Looks like a stamp at 1:12 to me?
look at it closer, where is his foot? what you think you can see is the stripe on olsens shirt! his foot is on the floor!he has white tape round his ankles and unless his rightshin and foot equates to 9 inches his foot must be out of picture!
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Just got home. Nightmare journey missed most of the first half thanks to the entire M11 being closed for roadworks. Came in just in time not to see whatever it was Dowd and the linesman thought they saw justified a penalty and the sending off of Herd.
The myth that McLeish tightens defences is exposed for what it is - a myth. No team spirit, no leadership, N'Zogbia showing once again that he was the worst premiership purchase of the summer, Petrov's idea of a killer pass is to a man ten yards behind him and Emile Heskey supposed to be playing as a holding left midfielder but looking like half a pantomime horse charging round looking for his front end.
Eight hours driving and sixtyfive quidsworth of petrol to see that.
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I must admit from that still photo posted by goodie it does look as though herd may not be as innocent as first appeared.
Got to say just had a good long hard look at this from 1.10 onwards and if that was an opposing defender doing that on a Villa player i would be screaming blue murder, well done the poster for sticking that up, because it certainly looks the right decision, not only does Herd put his foot in the first time you can see he glances down at Olson the 2nd time, with his boot left in, so its difficult to explain that he couldn't have seen what he was doing.
who knows......
Yeh, and the Albion player got up straight away and played on. Obviously he didn't think there was anything wrong.
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On a positive note, the Harry Moseley tribute was well observed by both sets of fans.
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Just got home. Nightmare journey missed most of the first half thanks to the entire M11 being closed for roadworks. Came in just in time not to see whatever it was Dowd and the linesman thought they saw justified a penalty and the sending off of Herd.
The myth that McLeish tightens defences is exposed for what it is - a myth. No team spirit, no leadership, N'Zogbia showing once again that he was the worst premiership purchase of the summer, Petrov's idea of a killer pass is to a man ten yards behind him and Emile Heskey supposed to be playing as a holding left midfielder but looking like half a pantomime horse charging round looking for his front end.
Eight hours driving and sixtyfive quidsworth of petrol to see that.
Well put Brian, especially getting across the hopelessness of it all.
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I must admit from that still photo posted by goodie it does look as though herd may not be as innocent as first appeared.
Got to say just had a good long hard look at this from 1.10 onwards and if that was an opposing defender doing that on a Villa player i would be screaming blue murder, well done the poster for sticking that up, because it certainly looks the right decision, not only does Herd put his foot in the first time you can see he glances down at Olson the 2nd time, with his boot left in, so its difficult to explain that he couldn't have seen what he was doing.
who knows......
Yeh, and the Albion player got up straight away and played on. Obviously he didn't think there was anything wrong.
I agree the lack response from the Albion player does definitely bring it into question, I would also agree that its impossible to say what was in Herds mind, when at 1.14 you can see him look down at Olson, I also agree the linesman could not have had a clear view of it as Olson must have had is body in the way, and would also make the point in just how much these players where directly involved in play at that time, he obviously saw something, rightly or wrongly and apparently they are going to do an in depth look at it on MOTD, so that may make it clearer.
Don't agree about 10 men v 11, many times in football it happens when not only does 10 men play well, its often the case they play better and even more determined.
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I must admit from that still photo posted by goodie it does look as though herd may not be as innocent as first appeared.
Got to say just had a good long hard look at this from 1.10 onwards and if that was an opposing defender doing that on a Villa player i would be screaming blue murder, well done the poster for sticking that up, because it certainly looks the right decision, not only does Herd put his foot in the first time you can see he glances down at Olson the 2nd time, with his boot left in, so its difficult to explain that he couldn't have seen what he was doing.
who knows......
Yeh, and the Albion player got up straight away and played on. Obviously he didn't think there was anything wrong.
I agree the lack response from the Albion player does definitely bring it into question, I would also agree that its impossible to say what was in Herds mind, when at 1.14 you can see him look down at Olson, I also agree the linesman could not have had a clear view of it as Olson must have had is body in the way, and would also make the point in just how much these players where directly involved in play at that time, he obviously saw something, rightly or wrongly and apparently they are going to do an in depth look at it on MOTD, so that may make it clearer.
Don't agree about 10 men v 11, many times in football it happens when not only does 10 men play well, its often the case they play better and even more determined.
i hope you aint on the jury in my murder trial as with all the evidence showing you still bleeding think there may be 'just'something. Bollocks, just admit you are wrong and there is jack all penalty and the lineo and ref are wankers!
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Unless the linesman is a mindreader you'd have to say it was an extremely harsh sending off. Again, we should have been playing with 10 men anyway to my mind so them's the breaks Yes we were at a disadvantage but we didn't muster anything in the 2nd half. If we'd given it a good go and still lost, then we could convincingly moan that it cost us the game but we didn't. Even teams with only 9 men have been known to get a shot on goal
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I said it earlier, from my view it did look like he stamped. I say 'looked like' I have not seen it apart from live at the match yet.
My view although higher up was in a similar line as the linesman.
Will watch on MOTD
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I said it earlier, from my view it did look like he stamped. I say 'looked like' I have not seen it apart from live at the match yet.
My view although higher up was in a similar line as the linesman.
Will watch on MOTD
I agree. Im down the front of L6 and thought the same.
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Decent until the sending-off, abysmal after. The lack of even an attempt to control possession worries me, along with the lack of any spark or enthusiasm in our play. In comparison to supposedly worse teams such as Norwich (a composite Villa/Norwich XI would have a conspicuous lack of yellow shirts in it) who somehow know how to pass on the ground, move off the ball and generally play with some energy and enterprise.
Dunne was very good though, and Carlos did reasonably well on his return. That's about that for the positives. If someone can name one thing that Hutton does well they deserve some sort of medal.
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I said it earlier, from my view it did look like he stamped. I say 'looked like' I have not seen it apart from live at the match yet.
My view although higher up was in a similar line as the linesman.
Will watch on MOTD
Precisely, because if you can't see it at the game and its not 100% clear from the vid then it only needs some bright spark to come up with a, this happened, and people look like an idiot, will be interesting to see what they come up with, on the face of it the sending of looks harsh.
We will see.
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Hutton and NZogbia are both AM signings, they are both suspect and considering we had younger players like Lichaj, Herd and Albrighton then I don't think they have brought anything better to the team. AM's decisions and formations are questionable to say the least, it summed it up for me by playing Heskey in midfield today. Football is slowly dying as players have all the power and the clubs don't give a stuff for the fans, RL needs to deal with the issues or else a storm will be coming straight for B6.
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Villa in control until sending off. Herd a find. A real player and I like him (said a month ago) in midfield.
Let it go. Positive approach, Bannan confident and creative. Herd will be a big 'un, nice to see Carlos much better than his 'replacement'. Dunne and Collins superb.
Stupid ref/ linesman decision. If he had stamped there would have been a reaction from Albion players. Nothing.
A bad day but until the sending off we were good. Even I can't blame the result on the Manager and in fact I think it was a positive team he put out. Benty should have scored and we would have been on top.
Pissed off but no blame today. Except for PD
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Dying to know what happened with the red card. One friend next to me reckoned he kicked the Boggie up in the air. Some guy behind me said he stamped on him. Most around me hadn't got a clue what happened.
The decision changed the direction of the game for sure as we didn't muster a single (even wayward) shoot on goal after the red card.
And if we can't defend from set pieces.......
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Dying to know what happened with the red card. One friend next to me reckoned he kicked the Boggie up in the air. Some guy behind me said he stamped on him. Most around me hadn't got a clue what happened.
The decision changed the direction of the game for sure as we didn't muster a single (even wayward) shoot on goal after the red card.
And if we can't defend from set pieces.......
When have we ever been able to defend set pieces? :P
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I can't help but wonder why we have Bannan in the box when we're defending set plays. What's he going to do, jump as high as he can and head an opposition player in the bollocks? He should be just outside the area with Gabby left up high in case we get the chance to counter and that still leaves 9 (or 8 for an hour today) to defend in the box.
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And anyone want to bet we're on early on MoTD? The bastards only ever stick us on early when we lose.
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N'Zogbia - biggest waste of £10m ever. What a fucking waste of space.
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Villa in control until sending off. Herd a find. A real player and I like him (said a month ago) in midfield.
Let it go. Positive approach, Bannan confident and creative. Herd will be a big 'un, nice to see Carlos much better than his 'replacement'. Dunne and Collins superb.
Stupid ref/ linesman decision. If he had stamped there would have been a reaction from Albion players. Nothing.
A bad day but until the sending off we were good. Even I can't blame the result on the Manager and in fact I think it was a positive team he put out. Benty should have scored and we would have been on top.
Pissed off but no blame today. Except for PD
Good post.
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Dying to know what happened with the red card. One friend next to me reckoned he kicked the Boggie up in the air. Some guy behind me said he stamped on him. Most around me hadn't got a clue what happened.
The decision changed the direction of the game for sure as we didn't muster a single (even wayward) shoot on goal after the red card.
And if we can't defend from set pieces.......
I caught the incident** on Sky earlier. Neither commentator could figure out why Chris was sent off and that was after they watched the replays.
** calling it an "incident" is probably a poor word to use. Chris and the Baggies bloke were stood next to each other, when all of a sudden........... nothing happened.
The lino the started doing a bit of mad flag waving, the Baggies bloke celebrated like he'd just scored the winner in the Cup Final and Brunt gave us one of the all-time great penalty misses.
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We saw the same from the Middle Trinity and thought the linesman was flagging for the pikey pulling Herd's legs.
Interesting how Dowd made that decision, presumably by radio conatct with the linesman, but still felt the need to go up to him on the goal line before the penalty, after poor Herd had gone, to ask him something.
Then, a little later, the ref's earpiece was obviously fucked as he gave it to the 4th official after standing in front of McLeish for 5 minutes.
Dowd was out of order once again.
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they have all been moaning about huttons tackle too, brilliant tackle imo. 100% got the ball the ball came off longs knee and they follow through took him. He then got booked after for jack all!
dowd is a wanker!
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N'Zogbia - biggest waste of £10m ever. What a fucking waste of space.
Correct. Unfortunately Bent also does very little.
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they have all been moaning about huttons tackle too, brilliant tackle imo. 100% got the ball the ball came off longs knee and they follow through took him. He then got booked after for jack all!
dowd is a wanker!
Just watched it again and it was two footed. Good tackle my arse.
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and Herd....well if thats even a foul than i'm a dutchman
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"Kicks back" did he bolloks.
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Boath managers talking shit about the red card incidents as expected. Just a shame Olsson decided to be a ****** with his take of the situation.
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Replays clearly show absolutely nothing happened, stupid decision and cost us dearly.
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and Herd....well if thats even a foul than i'm a dutchman
Never a penalty in a million years.
I've said Dowd is a ******, but at least that has a use.
Melt the fat fuck down for glue.
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Red card, my arse.
Herd was trying to get free of Olsson.
And these are "experienced" officials. **shakes head**
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Well, that was pretty conclusive. Definitely not a foul or a card.
As for the Hutton one, had it been a red I don't think we could really have complained.
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Firstly if thats a red card then i'm gonna be careful when putting my shoes on tomorrow incase that ****** of a linesman bursts in my room and starts waving his flag, secondly it does'nt matter if we had 10 men or 40 men, if we defend set pieces as appaling as that then were in deep shit.
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The view of the tv was not good. From behind it looked worse
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The view of the tv was not good. From behind it looked worse
If all the technical people@ the BBC/SKY cannot find a replay that shows its a stamp from the 10 or so cameras @ the game then how can a linesman be 100% per cent sure when his view was masked by Olsson...........
I dont care how it looked...........
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The view of the tv was not good. From behind it looked worse
If all the technical people@ the BBC/SKY cannot find a replay that shows its a stamp from the 10 or so cameras @ the game then how can a linesman be 100% per cent sure when his view was masked by Olsson...........
I dont care how it looked...........
just admit you were seeing things mark! things that were not there!
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If the linesman can't see it's a stamp, which he clearly couldn't, then why the hell did he give it? It's not his job to guess, absolutely disgusting decision.
As for Hutton, he was fortunate but his saving grace seems to have been he won the ball with the side of his foot, not his studs.
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The view of the tv was not good. From behind it looked worse
If all the technical people@ the BBC/SKY cannot find a replay that shows its a stamp from the 10 or so cameras @ the game then how can a linesman be 100% per cent sure when his view was masked by Olsson...........
I dont care how it looked...........
just admit you were seeing things mark! things that were not there!
Do you admit that Hutton should have gone for his?
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Just before the freekick was taken you can see olson throw a punch and hit herd on the shoulder
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The view of the tv was not good. From behind it looked worse
Unless they have physically airbrushed the foul out of the replays, it was an awful decision.
There isn't a foul. Yet I can't see how anybody can blame Dowd for it.
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Herd's wasn't a red
Hutton's was
One shot on target (the pen)
Going to be a long, hard winter
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As the ball went out I was watching Herd and from behind it did look as though Herd stamped his foot down, I'm not saying he did but it did look that way.
The view of the TV from the front of them doesn't really show much, but as I said my immediate thought was that he had stamped and that if the linesman saw it he would be off.
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Just before the freekick was taken you can see olson throw a punch and hit herd on the shoulder
yep. there was a lot of naughty stuff going on in the 1st half. My guess is the linesman saw the tangle and imagined Herd stamped on him based on what went on before hand. Thats my best guess because there's no other reason i can see for the decision. Baffling really.
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It was an utterly perplexing decision.
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The view of the tv was not good. From behind it looked worse
Agreed, sat in L6 it looked way worse
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The match officials contrived to completely fuck the game up for us with that disgraceful decision.
If anything it should have been a free kick to Villa. Penalty? Red card? Fuck right off.
As for Hutton...he's just crap.
Yes it was a hard reckless challenge but he played the ball and we've all seen much much worse.
Nothing was given but at worse a yellow card.
How can the officials see malice or intent in sending off Chris Herd, but no malice or intent for Hutton?
A complete and utter joke.
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As the ball went out I was watching Herd and from behind it did look as though Herd stamped his foot down, I'm not saying he did but it did look that way.
The view of the TV from the front of them doesn't really show much, but as I said my immediate thought was that he had stamped and that if the linesman saw it he would be off.
The view of the TV shows what happened, Herd was fouled, the linesman didn't give it, then Herd's foot gets caught under the Albion guy, he shakes his foot free, they both start running out of the area and then the linesman flags. There was no foul by Herd.
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If anything it was a foul on Herd the way he was being pulled.
The Hutton one was, errrrr, certainly a full bloodied challenge. Does the fact he won the ball stop it being a red card offence? Does winning the ball make it a perfectly timed, if full bloodied challenge? Whereas a second later and missing the ball and taking out the player makes it a 100% red card.
Genuine question as to where the line is between committed challenge and reckless one?
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If anything it was a foul on Herd the way he was being pulled.
The Hutton one was, errrrr, certainly a full bloodied challenge. Does the fact he won the ball stop it being a red card offence? Does winning the ball make it a perfectly timed, if full bloodied challenge? Whereas a second later and missing the ball and taking out the player makes it a 100% red card.
Genuine question as to where the line is between committed challenge and reckless one?
two footed is usually a nailed on red. doesn't matter if you get the ball
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If anything it was a foul on Herd the way he was being pulled.
The Hutton one was, errrrr, certainly a full bloodied challenge. Does the fact he won the ball stop it being a red card offence? Does winning the ball make it a perfectly timed, if full bloodied challenge? Whereas a second later and missing the ball and taking out the player makes it a 100% red card.
Genuine question as to where the line is between committed challenge and reckless one?
Winning the ball doesn't get you off the hook if its reckless, I said earlier that Hutton's saving grace seems to have been he didn't go in studs first, some refs would have sent him off for it.
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Having seen the highlights on MOTD I think the 'officials' got 3 big calls wrong: Hutton's tackle should have been a red card; the Herd/Olson incident should have been a free kick to us as Olson pulled Herd over - and for Roy to claim there was a stamp after he'd seen a replay was just ludicrous; Odemwingie's disallowed goal looked onside, although they didn't do the white line thing so not 100% sure. Hopefully we'll appeal the red card.
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The important distinction is if the tackle is "careless, reckless or using excessive force".
And a case could definitely be made for Hutton's being all three of those. Winning the ball or not is irrelevant in the above context.
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Hodgson's claim it was a stamp is a disgrace and I've lost a great deal of respect for the man.
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The big difference between the Hutton and Herd incidents is that Hutton would have got a lot less sympathy had he been sent off, there is absolutely no excuse for the linesman to have given the Herd decision, especially as he had a perfect view of Herd being fouled in the first place.
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If anything it was a foul on Herd the way he was being pulled.
The Hutton one was, errrrr, certainly a full bloodied challenge. Does the fact he won the ball stop it being a red card offence? Does winning the ball make it a perfectly timed, if full bloodied challenge? Whereas a second later and missing the ball and taking out the player makes it a 100% red card.
Genuine question as to where the line is between committed challenge and reckless one?
two footed is usually a nailed on red. doesn't matter if you get the ball
Correct, If a player goes into a challenge recklessly, with unnecessary force thereby endangering the opposing player, its a stone wall red card.
Shane Long could easily have had his leg broken today.
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Hodgson's claim it was a stamp is a disgrace and I've lost a great deal of respect for the man.
Me too, which is a shame as I've always liked him.
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Hutton really is the most brainless player we've had for a long time. He always seems to be teetering on the edge of doing something stupid, and that tackle today was truly idiotic.
If you go in with both feet off the ground, you're as good as off these days.
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I would like to point out that i'm not defending Hutton, and wouldn't have argued if he had been red carded, am just curious where other posters see the line between the scenario I posed.
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think what saved hutton is long ended arse over tit a fair distance off. If he'd connected with long when he was stationary then we'd probably have had a broken leg on our hands. Hodgson milked it afterwards but i reckon long will be back in a few weeks. Hutton was a very lucky boy imo.
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I would like to point out that i'm not defending Hutton, and wouldn't have argued if he had been red carded, am just curious where other posters see the line between the scenario I posed.
As has been said, there's no distinction in the scenario you've posted.
Touching the ball or not is irrelevant under the current laws. Split second before or split second after - it's all the same.
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Hutton's was a red, but the fact it wasn't given doesn't mean that Herd being sent off somehow evens it up. What's worse for Herd is that he's a young guy trying to make a career and this could potentially have a big effect. The chances are it'll be rescinded, but if it isn't it could be terrible for his Villa career.
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Hutton really is the most brainless player we've had for a long time. He always seems to be teetering on the edge of doing something stupid, and that tackle today was truly idiotic.
If you go in with both feet off the ground, you're as good as off these days.
He does seem an accident waiting to happen. I hope Carlos gets a run of games at RB. Which is kind of weird considering I didn't like him playing there under MON. Then again, i'd rather have NRC/Gardner there than Hutton right now.
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Hutton really is the most brainless player we've had for a long time. He always seems to be teetering on the edge of doing something stupid, and that tackle today was truly idiotic.
If you go in with both feet off the ground, you're as good as off these days.
He won the ball with one foot, that's why he wasn't sent off, you are allowed to have both feet off the ground and win tackles, it's going in with both feet studs showing that gets you sent off, some refs would have viewed the Hutton tackle as reckless and sent him off anyway, but it's not just about having your feet off the ground.
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I posted this in the match thread, can't think of anything else to put.
Randy you have proper fucked it up. Allowed MoN to spunk millions, picked a replacement who had heart problems then replaced him with a manager who relegated a team twice in 3 years.
What did you think was going to happen?
I would never take anger out on the owners but now i'm seeing they're at fault for a lot of shit that has happened recently.
They have fucked up so bad and they don't even realise it. They have led me not to give a shit about the club anymore. I honestly don't care anymore. I'm only on here just to look at how far we've fallen in just one year.
Atleast I'll hopefully get to watch my Ravens rape the Cleveland Browns in a few weeks. That will atleast make me smile.
P.S. Phil Dowd you're such a faggot.
Less of that, please.
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Hutton really is the most brainless player we've had for a long time. He always seems to be teetering on the edge of doing something stupid, and that tackle today was truly idiotic.
If you go in with both feet off the ground, you're as good as off these days.
He does seem an accident waiting to happen. I hope Carlos gets a run of games at RB. Which is kind of weird considering I didn't like him playing there under MON. Then again, i'd rather have NRC/Gardner there than Hutton right now.
It was good to see Cuellar back, but I did feel a little nostalgic twang the first time he crossed the ball in directly into the keeper's hands.
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Hutton's was a red, but the fact it wasn't given doesn't mean that Herd being sent off somehow evens it up. What's worse for Herd is that he's a young guy trying to make a career and this could potentially have a big effect. The chances are it'll be rescinded, but if it isn't it could be terrible for his Villa career.
Strikes me he's got a bit more character about him than to let that worry him. If its not rescinded i'd be gobsmacked. No-one apart from the linesman seems to have seen anything.
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As I have said I was watching the Herd incident as it happened, my view of it was that Herd did appear to stamp / kick back.
My view was from behind the linesman (upper Trinity) and my first reaction was it was a stamp and if seen he would get sent off.
Just because that's how it looked from my position doesn't make it so, we can criticise the linesman but my opinion at the time was the same as the linesman.
From the TV angle it's hard to see anything, but from my view I clearly saw Herds leg come down like a stamp. Wether he was just simply bringing it down to move away it is difficult to tell, but.... My personal view is that he did or tried to stamp / kick back
Just my view
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Hutton really is the most brainless player we've had for a long time. He always seems to be teetering on the edge of doing something stupid, and that tackle today was truly idiotic.
If you go in with both feet off the ground, you're as good as off these days.
He does seem an accident waiting to happen. I hope Carlos gets a run of games at RB. Which is kind of weird considering I didn't like him playing there under MON. Then again, i'd rather have NRC/Gardner there than Hutton right now.
It was good to see Cuellar back, but I did feel a little nostalgic twang the first time he crossed the ball in directly into the keeper's hands.
Whenever he ventures up the wing and crosses I do tend to close my eyes as he starts to swing his boot at the ball and hope he somehow finds a Villa player. I think Carlos does the same.
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Hutton really is the most brainless player we've had for a long time. He always seems to be teetering on the edge of doing something stupid, and that tackle today was truly idiotic.
If you go in with both feet off the ground, you're as good as off these days.
He does seem an accident waiting to happen. I hope Carlos gets a run of games at RB. Which is kind of weird considering I didn't like him playing there under MON. Then again, i'd rather have NRC/Gardner there than Hutton right now.
It was good to see Cuellar back, but I did feel a little nostalgic twang the first time he crossed the ball in directly into the keeper's hands.
Whenever he ventures up the wing and crosses I do tend to close my eyes as he starts to swing his boot at the ball and hope he somehow finds a Villa player. I think Carlos does the same.
I love the way he runs, too.
It's a sort of camp, sashaying sort of run, with his arms in front and his hands at 90 degrees.
He also looks a bit like a U Boat commander with that beard. Nothing camp about that, mind.
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As I have said I was watching the Herd incident as it happened, my view of it was that Herd did appear to stamp / kick back.
My view was from behind the linesman (upper Trinity) and my first reaction was it was a stamp and if seen he would get sent off.
Just because that's how it looked from my position doesn't make it so, we can criticise the linesman but my opinion at the time was the same as the linesman.
From the TV angle it's hard to see anything, but from my view I clearly saw Herds leg come down like a stamp. Wether he was just simply bringing it down to move away it is difficult to tell, but.... My personal view is that he did or tried to stamp / kick back
Just my view
eh? it was clear as day on the tv replay. there was nowt there. At all. Unless Herd's got a third leg hidden from view to all but the linesman and the upper trinity he didn't stamp on anyone.
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Hutton really is the most brainless player we've had for a long time. He always seems to be teetering on the edge of doing something stupid, and that tackle today was truly idiotic.
If you go in with both feet off the ground, you're as good as off these days.
He does seem an accident waiting to happen. I hope Carlos gets a run of games at RB. Which is kind of weird considering I didn't like him playing there under MON. Then again, i'd rather have NRC/Gardner there than Hutton right now.
It was good to see Cuellar back, but I did feel a little nostalgic twang the first time he crossed the ball in directly into the keeper's hands.
Whenever he ventures up the wing and crosses I do tend to close my eyes as he starts to swing his boot at the ball and hope he somehow finds a Villa player. I think Carlos does the same.
I love the way he runs, too.
It's a sort of camp, sashaying sort of run, with his arms in front and his hands at 90 degrees.
He also looks a bit like a U Boat commander with that beard. Nothing camp about that, mind.
I remember saying in the 'Villa idiosyncrasies' thread that i've always thought that he runs like a girl. At least i'm not the only one who has noticed, I was being to wonder if it was just me!
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From the TV I would agree but he did appear to stamp / kick from my viewing position.
Had I had been the linesman with my view I would have done the same as he did.
But as with everything it's all about perspective
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Its not important if you liked houllier or not what you can't deny is that he saw the squad is rotten and it is. AF couldn't get shit out of this bunch of clowns.
No movement no creativity no shots again. We couldn't pass water. Already at the bottom of the stats board goin to be a long hard winter. The sending off had an effect but no shots on target is poor. we need to wake the hell up.
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I remember saying in the 'Villa idiosyncrasies' thread that i've always thought that he runs like a girl. At least i'm not the only one who has noticed, I was being to wonder if it was just me!
Absolutely not, I've been saying it for ages, he's the campest player we've had for a long time.
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Albion could have scored 5 today. Worrying
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From the TV I would agree but he did appear to stamp / kick from my viewing position.
Had I had been the linesman with my view I would have done the same as he did.
But as with everything it's all about perspective
It's about being certain you've seen what you think you've seen, I'm in K block Holte end, I saw the foul on Herd, then the ball got cleared and I stopped watching, when I saw the linesman flagging I thought at first it was for the foul on Herd. When the penalty was awarded I thought something must have happened after the foul, watching MOTD, I see nothing did happen, the linesman needs to be 100% certain, he guessed, it was a figment of his imagination, the same linesman also didn't see the clear foul on Herd nor the swing from Olsen, disgusting.
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Herd's red card - never a sending off nor a foul. Saw nothing at the game or on the replays to show that it was anything but a tangle at most. For Woy to claim it was a stamp, after seeing the replays is outrageous. I think Dowd asked the linesman to watch the 2 players when the free kick came in & he obliged by making the decision that changed the game.
As for Hutton, at the game it looked a good, but strong tackle. The replay when seen in slow motion, shows what could be seen as a reckless follow through. I think it was a borderline decision which could be interpreted either way, he didn't jump in with his studs & turns away after winning the ball but he does catch Long high. As for Woy's claim that Long could have had 2 broken legs - fuck off.
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I remember saying in the 'Villa idiosyncrasies' thread that i've always thought that he runs like a girl. At least i'm not the only one who has noticed, I was being to wonder if it was just me!
Absolutely not, I've been saying it for ages, he's the campest player we've had for a long time.
Nah Daniel Johnson runs more like a girl than Carlos. The long dreads dont help either.
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I remember saying in the 'Villa idiosyncrasies' thread that i've always thought that he runs like a girl. At least i'm not the only one who has noticed, I was being to wonder if it was just me!
Absolutely not, I've been saying it for ages, he's the campest player we've had for a long time.
Nah Daniel Johnson runs more like a girl than Carlos. The long dreads dont help either.
I'm pretty sure he and some of the other younger players often sit near me in the Upper Trinity.
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Well if you see a bloke with long dreads running like a girl to get his pie at half time...its probably Daniel Johnson.
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Well if you see a bloke with long dreads running like a girl to get his pie at half time...its probably Daniel Johnson.
I'm 99% it his him and some of the other youth players. The only reason i'm not 100% is because they are usually in front of me so I rarely see their faces, especially as they spend most of the match playing games on their phones.
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From the TV I would agree but he did appear to stamp / kick from my viewing position.
Had I had been the linesman with my view I would have done the same as he did.
But as with everything it's all about perspective
It's about being certain you've seen what you think you've seen, I'm in K block Holte end, I saw the foul on Herd, then the ball got cleared and I stopped watching, when I saw the linesman flagging I thought at first it was for the foul on Herd. When the penalty was awarded I thought something must have happened after the foul, watching MOTD, I see nothing did happen, the linesman needs to be 100% certain, he guessed, it was a figment of his imagination, the same linesman also didn't see the clear foul on Herd nor the swing from Olsen, disgusting.
Spot on Tony!
Why didn't the linesman wave his flag when Olsson seemed to thump Herd on the shoulder? Or when he was holding Herd's foot?
I think he could see that Dowd was already having a mare and decided to help him out - deflect the attention sort of.
Also - I wonder how Hanson would've reacted if it had happened to his beloved Reds...
I'm rambling....time for bed!
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McLeish's view:
"The sending-off cost us severely - no doubt about it. The kid had started the game really well and we were looking good at that point. In the pictures I have seen it looked as if Chris was extricating his foot from Jonas Olsson's grasp and Olsson didn't react to it. If you'd been stamped on, you'd expect the player to complain."
He would have done if he was South American like Nunez the other night!This man our Manager needs to look at his own input post sending off not moan about it, Shit happens it's how you get out of it makes the man and the team.
Bollocks.
You cannot gloss over a decision such as sending off. We were the better side, winning and looking comfortable. We then go down to ten men and lose a game after suddenly looking poor.
Its not hard to grasp what the critical element in that equation was is it.
Were we the better side? I don't think we were.
Yes sending off changed how the rest of the match was going to be played out. The issue is that McLeish and our team were useless in dealing with it. As soon as pen was missed Bent should have been off with Clark on to play in CM. Bent is only good and useful if you are dominating a match. He is as effective as me in the Witton End Upper if we are not making chances. Than at HT he should have taken off N'Zogbia and replaced him with Albrighton to add pace for chasing back ability and pace for any counter attacks.
10 men do not have to be as inept and useless as we were today. Remember Albion came back from 1 down and beat us last season with ten men.
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Am I the only person who can't see a midfielder in Ivanhoe for the life of me?
No you and rest of the footballing world except of course Mcleish.
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I remember saying in the 'Villa idiosyncrasies' thread that i've always thought that he runs like a girl. At least i'm not the only one who has noticed, I was being to wonder if it was just me!
Absolutely not, I've been saying it for ages, he's the campest player we've had for a long time.
So have I, he's the most camp defender I've ever seen in my life.
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I would like to point out that i'm not defending Hutton, and wouldn't have argued if he had been red carded, am just curious where other posters see the line between the scenario I posed.
I dont think you can argue that the Hutton chalenge was anything other than a sending off offence, I would ban him for longer
a. Because that sort of challenge should be given the most harshest treatment and
b, Because i hope it is a long time before I see him playing for us again.
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Havent read much of the thread but I imagine it is dominated by negativity and dismay about the performance once we were down to 10 men and confusion over the sending off (all warranted) so I wont add to it.
But dare I exude some positivity?
I was encouraged by the team put out and thought we started the game very well. When we went 1-0 up I couldnt see anything but a Villa win, especially with Long off. I was impressed with Herd early on and the more I see of Bannan the more I think he is the real deal.
I just hope McLeish gives that starting team a good run, because I think we could do well with it. That is until Bannan and Herd begin to put in the performances where Liverpool or Man C become interested and the whole depressing cycle begins again.
And last point, 2nd half was awful, but can we really blame McLeish? As soon as that red card was given it was just a matter of time before Heskey wold come on. Not all AMC's fault, our bench wasnt exactly brimming with options, not McLeish's fault, cheers Randy
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I just hope McLeish gives that starting team a good run, because I think we could do well with it.
I don't think Hutton or N'Zogbia have done anywhere near enough to warrant continued selection.
With the limited resources i'd go:
Given
Warnock
Dunne
Collins
Cuellar
Petrov
Jenas
Bannan
Ireland
Gabby
Bent
Our best football this season has come with Bannan and Ireland in the team. I was highly suprised Ireland didn't play today.
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They have fucked up so bad and they don't even realise it. They have led me not to give a shit about the club anymore. I honestly don't care anymore.
I care. I care and it hurts.
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when we needed a bit of fight and battling unity, it wasnt there, nor was any quality which is even more worrying
Ans when you consider who is in charge, it makes you worry at what might happen. McLeish has proved on two occasions that he doesn't know how to turn a slide around. Last season, when the blues needed something at Spurs, they didn't even put up a fight. I'm a bit worried about this, if the confidence goes from the players, McLeish won't be able to turn it around, as has already been proven more than once.
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Just back from the ground after being on the piss and what the fuck how the fucking hell can you not defend Herd!
I work for the BBC in the midlands but im ashamed the way radio WM tried too justify herd getting a red card "the intent was their" what absolute fucking bollocks you might as well not bother playing if the intent was their and i might as well go to Prison for numerous intentional things!
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Has Martin Laursen got his coaching badges yet? He'd be the ideal rescue man when Mcleish goes in the new year.
I'm fucking packing it in. Good night.
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That ****** Olsson clenching his fists and smiling after cheating a peno out of us...he must have thought he'd won the lotto. If Herd had stamped on him why did Olsson get up immediately without a care in the world?
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losing at home to West Brom is just not on. How much longer is that clot of a manager going to remain in charge of Aston Villa Football Club.
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That c*** Olsson clenching his fists and smiling after cheating a peno out of us...he must have thought he'd won the lotto. If Herd had stamped on him why did Olsson get up immediately without a care in the world?
Its unfair to say he cheated us out of a penalty. As you say he got up straight away and carried on with the game. He looked a mixture of astounded and delighted (as any player would) when it was awarded.
His comments after the game were odd though. If he knew he'd been stamped on, he'd have been rightly furious.
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Good call Zhong Yi. It is also good to see the word clot getting a run out as an insult. Congealed, turning sour, not flowing, lumpy. The word clot is very appropriate to Alex McLeish and his football.
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The players are crap the manager is crap and i'm sorry to say the owner is crap. Please sell Randy, preferably to someone who has a reasonable idea of how to run a premiership club.
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Let's face it - right now we suck. Is there really any other way to look at it? No significant shots on goal besides the penalty! I'm very despondent and disillusioned.
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That c*** Olsson clenching his fists and smiling after cheating a peno out of us...he must have thought he'd won the lotto. If Herd had stamped on him why did Olsson get up immediately without a care in the world?
Its unfair to say he cheated us out of a penalty. As you say he got up straight away and carried on with the game. He looked a mixture of astounded and delighted (as any player would) when it was awarded.
His comments after the game were odd though. If he knew he'd been stamped on, he'd have been rightly furious.
Cheating was exactly what he did. No question. The ref had already had a word and he tried to provoke Herd into reacting.
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In the face of being on the wrong side I am goingbo put my view a final time...
As the ball was cleared I continued to watch the Herd incident continue and it did look from my view point like a stamp or a kick.
I was sure he had done it, and that he was going to get a red card. The TV replay from the front doesn't show much but from behind (the linesman view) it did look like he stamped / kicked out.
I'm not saying he did stamp but from my perspective it looked like he did
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Like the linesman, Mark, you got it wrong. The cheating Albion bastard conned you too.
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Phil Dowd must give the greatest blow jobs in the world to find himself a professional referee.
It's the only explaination.
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I had no idea why their penalty was given yesterday, having seen it on MOTD just, now know why it was given, even though it shouldn't have been.
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Like the linesman, Mark, you got it wrong. The cheating Albion bastard conned you too.
Chris, I'm not saying it was a foul, but from my view Herds leg looked like it stamped / kicked.
I can understand why the linesman gave it, from what I saw I would have.
That's not to say it was a good decision, as I have said it's all about perspective.
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the man above speaks the truth.
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Feel so sorry for Herd, the lad was playing really well, with the footage showing that he hasn't done anything wrong will Villa appeal and get the 3 match ban removed?
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The sending off decision was a joke. Will probably be recinded but it doesn't help us now does it ?
As soon as we were down to 10 men, it was a matter of time. Plus Herd was our best player on the day.
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Like the linesman, Mark, you got it wrong. The cheating Albion bastard conned you too.
Chris, I'm not saying it was a foul, but from my view Herds leg looked like it stamped / kicked.
I can understand why the linesman gave it, from what I saw I would have.
That's not to say it was a good decision, as I have said it's all about perspective.
And his perspective , was blocked by the albion player on the ground - therefore, he did not have a clear view, and could not be 100% sure what went on. Like he didn't see the albion player punching Herd in the back in the minutes immediately before.
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I haven't seen us play so badly at home in years. Lerner's given up on Villa and has torn the heart out of the team. What he's done is a fuckin disgrace. If Ellis had done this he'd be hung drawn and quartered by now.
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Like the linesman, Mark, you got it wrong. The cheating Albion bastard conned you too.
Chris, I'm not saying it was a foul, but from my view Herds leg looked like it stamped / kicked.
I can understand why the linesman gave it, from what I saw I would have.
That's not to say it was a good decision, as I have said it's all about perspective.
It was six of one half dozen of the other. This kind of thing goes on in most games and it's ignored by practically every Ref until yesterday. An absolute farce of a decision.
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The sad thing about yesterday (apart from Phil Dowd still managing to pass himself off as a professional referee) was sitting there knowing that we would'nt come back once we went behind. A Fergie or Redknapp team would have got something out of that game.
I like McCleish and i wan't him to suceed but playing Heskey in centre midfield was just piss poor management.
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Feel so sorry for Herd, the lad was playing really well, with the footage showing that he hasn't done anything wrong will Villa appeal and get the 3 match ban removed?
I think they'll wait until the refs match report before making any appeal. Don't be surprised if Dowd states that he didn't see Hutton's tackle clearly and that having seen replays he would have given him a red card if he had seen it. Nothing would surprise me with that twat.
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Shit. Unfortunately, we have to get used to it.
This sums up the general situation plain and precisely.
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I haven't seen us play so badly at home in years. Lerner's given up on Villa and has torn the heart out of the team. What he's done is a fuckin disgrace. If Ellis had done this he'd be hung drawn and quartered by now.
Hard to disagree and i'm surprised randy hasnt copped for more flak in recent months.
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one of the saddest things about yesterday is that pat Herd was sent of after starting really well,
he might well have gone on to have a good game and given AM something to think about with his team selections in the future.
also Villa fans were begining to see something in him, and growing in confidence about his ability. i know this is all ifs and buts, but you cant impress sitting in the changing room, especially when you dont get that many chances
with the sending off it just puts that negative spin on things, i hope it doesnt hamper his development, i have high hopes for the lad.
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The sad thing about yesterday (apart from Phil Dowd still managing to pass himself off as a professional referee) was sitting there knowing that we would'nt come back once we went behind. A Fergie or Redknapp team would have got something out of that game.
I like McCleish and i wan't him to suceed but playing Heskey in centre midfield was just piss poor management.
But Heskey was just a sub. The damage was done by the time he came on. Bannan contributed nothing to the game other than his usual sloppy passes, but he never gets criticised.
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The sad thing about yesterday (apart from Phil Dowd still managing to pass himself off as a professional referee) was sitting there knowing that we would'nt come back once we went behind. A Fergie or Redknapp team would have got something out of that game.
I like McCleish and i wan't him to suceed but playing Heskey in centre midfield was just piss poor management.
But Heskey was just a sub. The damage was done by the time he came on. Bannan contributed nothing to the game other than his usual sloppy passes, but he never gets criticised.
What difference does it make if he was just a sub? You don't play a centre forward in centre midfield, it did'nt make any sense. Ireland would probably have been a better choice.
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Absolute joke of a decision.And i think that is Herds position, perserve with him there.
What worried me was that we really missed his energy and urgency in midfield after.No pace, no aggression, no desire.Not sure what the point of bringing Heskey or Albrighton was tbh.
We don't work hard enough off the ball, and i thought bringing Collins back for Clark was a mistake, and so it proved, we gave the ball away far too much.
Positives were again Barry Bannan, we are becoming far too reliant on him, not sure we will see the best of him with the players at our disposale.For me if you play Bannan you must play Ireland, as they seem to play well together.
Thought we missed Hutton when he went off, his bursts down the line means we can move Bannan inside, where he is more dangerous.
Thought Dunne and Warnock were ok.
What worried me yday was that McL did'nt seem to know what to do.Down to 10 men i would have brought off N'Zog and brought Clark on, and then if necc bring Ireland on later.
A word about N'Zog, give him some decent passes, and move for him and he will be ok.Gabby needs to improve his movement off the ball as well if he wants to get better.
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Probably going over old ground (not read the whole thread, life's too short), but most teams react to adversity and oing down to ten men by showing some character and fight, we, with the honourable exception of Barry Banana, rolled over and let West Brom (fucking West Brom for fucks sake) tickle our parts. Absolutely pathetic.
Yes the sending off was bollocks, and yes we may have lost the game anyway, but to not even look like they wanted to battle for the cause is unforgivable. I spent most of the second half laughing with a couple of blokes behind me, because if we didn't take the piss out of the pathetic bunch of losers we'd have been smashing up the Witton Lane End.
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Bannan contributed nothing to the game other than his usual sloppy passes, but he never gets criticised.
Banana may not be good enough but at least he looks like we wants it, for that he gets cut a heck of a lot of slack from me.
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We just never looked like we were going to score, the attacking play was shite and we cannot defend corners. Petrov gets vertigo when he reaches the half way line really pisses me off. I hate seeing the ball constantly going back whenever it touches his feet. Collins gets it forward, to the head off another defender or giving the opposition a throw in. We cant defend corners, tchyio (however you spell it) tore us to absolute shreds
We were abysmal, the red card was dismal, their offside goal decision was dismal, hutton should of walked, foster should have at the very least got booked. The officiating was shocking. It might have been different had Herd not walked but i think we were awful
Anyone else see it kick off outside the north stand after?
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I must confess to not enjoying going to VP anymore. We look a very limited team with its heart ripped out over the past 2 years. More fool me for parting with £900 for 3 ST's.
It will be a very long winter unless we can pick up at least 6 points from the next three games.
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Bannan always tries a positive pass.Did a fantastic pass to Petrov in the 1st half, who was on the edge of the area.A better touch would have took him through on goal.We need Petrov and N'Zog to be as positive as Bannan.We miss him when hes not on the pitch.
Tbh if i was Mcleish i would let Petrov , Heskey , Cuellar and Beye go in Jan, just pay them off, and try Herd , Jenas, Delph, Gardener in midfield.
Petrovs lack of energy is quite embarassing.
Mind you when we was 1-0 up, with 11 men, i could'nt see us not winning tbh, but down to 10 men, i could'nt see us drawing.
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Tbh if i was Mcleish i would let Petrov , Heskey , Cuellar and Beye go in Jan, just pay them off, and try Herd , Jenas, Delph, Gardener in midfield.
I'm not sure if making our squad thinner is the best of ideas. Like it or loathe it but we are reliant on average players like Petrov and Cuellar, because it's too risky to gamble on youngsters.
Re Heskey: I agree that he is not worth the 55k or whatever he's on, but he's not completely useless: if someone can convince him that forwards should at least occasionally try to get into the box, he can actually be a presence if we manage to get a cross in; secondly, if we're defending a lead he can do a job defensively on either the wings as both uor first-choice full backs are potential liabilities. A central midfielders he's not, though.
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Petrov needing replacing 2 years ago, instead it's those around him who have gone (Barry, Milner, Downing, Young, Reo Coker) and they've all been replaced by lesser players. I can't complain about his efforts, he just doesn't have the legs for it.
Bannan is good with the ball but limited without it, he needs players around him to win the ball & give it to him, sadly we don't have that player.
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Seems to me a lot of the spirit and soul has left the club. The team has been hijacked by mediocrity, You can't just kick a ball about, you need to bring something else with you. We lack that character and that sense of purpose that any player who plays for Villa should have. What we do have is overpaid, comfortable with where there at average footballers, who should hang their heads when they pick up their wages. What we need is a bit of hunger.
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Trouble is with the financial problems we let go of the players with spirit and ambition. and we're left with kids and the ones we couldn't give away. mebbe AM will have a scout round the championship and pick up a few players who have some hunger about them on the cheap. People like Petrov with the best will in the world are coming to the end of their careers - a lot of the others know they'll never get a contract elsewhere like their Villa one so will quite happily stay put come what may. GH tried to move them on and failed so i don't fancy AM's chances
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On the setanta feed yesterday, Pat Nevin said that Herd didn't argue so he must have been guilty. Case closed.
Because arguing would make the ref change his mind.
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Eign, when Herd went off we had no pace, energy, commitment in the centre of the park.
I went with my Albion supporting cousin, before Heskey came on i said they were winning every header, maybe thats why he brought Heskey on, but with Heskey and Petrov in the middle of the park it looked like a veterans league.
I would get rid, Herd has shown enough to suggest that he can perform at this level, Delph is at a crossroads, Jenas, who knows, and Gardener, all potential.But i would pick every one ahead of Petrov and Heskey.
I can't blame Heskey or Petrov, but their time has come and gone, time to get some youthful exburence in the team, and before we go on about experience in the team, where was the leadership on the pitch yday?
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I can't blame Heskey or Petrov, but their time has come and gone, time to get some youthful exburence in the team, and before we go on about experience in the team, where was the leadership on the pitch yday?
Exactly, where was the leadership? We have lacked it for a while.
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Heskey coming on was odd. You have to wonder what's ireland done to get passed over for a clapped out forward - i mean ireland's been average but still...Ivanhoe? Mind you the whole bench is hardly burting with alternatives. Delfouneso.. is he ever gonna get a run or will he be quietly let go next summer?
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There's nothing wrong with Petrov, and even Heskey could do a decent enough job for us. The problem is what they're being asked to do. Petrov is not a defensive mid. Never has been. The times he's looked decent to me, are when he's been given licence to get forward and make runs into the opposition box. Every time he does it, we create chances. Sadly, I've only seen it happen about 2 or 3 times in recent years. We need a defensive mid, a specialist, an athlete. Clark will do in a pinch.
And Heskey could have been effective yesterday, if only he'd been played in his proper sodding position. Instead, McTwat sends him on in midfield (words fail tbh), where he can only watch as Collins boots the ball two hundred feet over his head up to Bent, who promptly gets beaten in the air/loses it with the touch of a baby elephant.
If even an everyday joe like me can see that Heskey should have been stuck up right next to Bent to get any value out of him, then why the hell are we paying hundreds of thousands to that useless dickhead to pick the team?
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Heskey coming on was odd. You have to wonder what's ireland done to get passed over for a clapped out forward - i mean ireland's been average but still...Ivanhoe? Mind you the whole bench is hardly burting with alternatives. Delfouneso.. is he ever gonna get a run or will he be quietly let go next summer?
I think he's inujured at the moment.
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Heskey coming on was odd. You have to wonder what's ireland done to get passed over for a clapped out forward - i mean ireland's been average but still...Ivanhoe? Mind you the whole bench is hardly burting with alternatives. Delfouneso.. is he ever gonna get a run or will he be quietly let go next summer?
I presume the logic is that our best opportunity was likely to come from a set-piece lumped into their box. Combined with the poor defending from their corners a big lump might have been useful. Flawed logic on the manager's park with Clark was the obvious choice to come on instead, particularly in light the goals he scored last season from set-pieces.
Delfouneso is injured, so I'm not sure what relevance he has to yesterday.
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Heskey coming on was odd. You have to wonder what's ireland done to get passed over for a clapped out forward - i mean ireland's been average but still...Ivanhoe? Mind you the whole bench is hardly burting with alternatives. Delfouneso.. is he ever gonna get a run or will he be quietly let go next summer?
And where's Weimann? Why did we recall him from his loan if he's not even in the squad?
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It is even more soul destroying to see the potential future stars, who were 'bigged up' over the last two seasons; Bannan, Albrighton, Delph, Fonz, now being completely ripped apart on these pages.
Soul destroying on two fronts 1. I feel these criticisms could be right 2. These are going to have to be our players for the foreseeable future, as the our transfer policy is to wait for them to perform as we need to try and get decent sell on prices for them.
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If Delfouneso is injured why was he on the bench yesterday?
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Heskey coming on was odd. You have to wonder what's ireland done to get passed over for a clapped out forward - i mean ireland's been average but still...Ivanhoe? Mind you the whole bench is hardly burting with alternatives. Delfouneso.. is he ever gonna get a run or will he be quietly let go next summer?
I presume the logic is that our best opportunity was likely to come from a set-piece lumped into their box. Combined with the poor defending from their corners a big lump might have been useful. Flawed logic on the manager's park with Clark was the obvious choice to come on instead, particularly in light the goals he scored last season from set-pieces.
Delfouneso is injured, so I'm not sure what relevance he has to yesterday.
oh right. bbc name him as a sub for some reason.
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If Delfouneso is injured why was he on the bench yesterday?
I did'nt realise he was, i did'nt hear the subs to be honest.
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This team yesterday looked as lacking in any passion or desire as they did under GH.
Christmas will see us in the bottom five if not lower, and in January Bent will be looking to find another club as the major reason he joined us have both left.
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Heskey coming on was odd. You have to wonder what's ireland done to get passed over for a clapped out forward - i mean ireland's been average but still...Ivanhoe? Mind you the whole bench is hardly burting with alternatives. Delfouneso.. is he ever gonna get a run or will he be quietly let go next summer?
I presume the logic is that our best opportunity was likely to come from a set-piece lumped into their box. Combined with the poor defending from their corners a big lump might have been useful. Flawed logic on the manager's park with Clark was the obvious choice to come on instead, particularly in light the goals he scored last season from set-pieces.
Delfouneso is injured, so I'm not sure what relevance he has to yesterday.
oh right. bbc name him as a sub for some reason.
I saw Delfouneso on the bench. What happened to Delph?
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Delph was taken ill overnight apparantley.
I'd start Albrighton next week. N'zogbia had his chance again yesterday and did'nt take it.
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Heskey coming on was odd. You have to wonder what's ireland done to get passed over for a clapped out forward - i mean ireland's been average but still...Ivanhoe? Mind you the whole bench is hardly burting with alternatives. Delfouneso.. is he ever gonna get a run or will he be quietly let go next summer?
I presume the logic is that our best opportunity was likely to come from a set-piece lumped into their box. Combined with the poor defending from their corners a big lump might have been useful. Flawed logic on the manager's park with Clark was the obvious choice to come on instead, particularly in light the goals he scored last season from set-pieces.
Delfouneso is injured, so I'm not sure what relevance he has to yesterday.
oh right. bbc name him as a sub for some reason.
And The Telegraph.
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Heskey coming on was odd. You have to wonder what's ireland done to get passed over for a clapped out forward - i mean ireland's been average but still...Ivanhoe? Mind you the whole bench is hardly burting with alternatives. Delfouneso.. is he ever gonna get a run or will he be quietly let go next summer?
The only thing I can think of is that Heskey was supposed to win headers to flick on to Gabby or Bent, however once it became clear the long balls were bypassing Heskey, which they were, he should have been shoved further forward.
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Heskey coming on was odd. You have to wonder what's ireland done to get passed over for a clapped out forward - i mean ireland's been average but still...Ivanhoe? Mind you the whole bench is hardly burting with alternatives. Delfouneso.. is he ever gonna get a run or will he be quietly let go next summer?
I presume the logic is that our best opportunity was likely to come from a set-piece lumped into their box. Combined with the poor defending from their corners a big lump might have been useful. Flawed logic on the manager's park with Clark was the obvious choice to come on instead, particularly in light the goals he scored last season from set-pieces.
Delfouneso is injured, so I'm not sure what relevance he has to yesterday.
oh right. bbc name him as a sub for some reason.
Fair point. I read in the week that he was still out with the injury he got with the U21s.
Even so, I'm not sure yesterday was the right sort of scenario for him to come on - and I'd have brought Heskey on over Fonz as well.
But I still wouldn't have bothered bringing Heskey on.
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Heskey coming on was odd. You have to wonder what's ireland done to get passed over for a clapped out forward - i mean ireland's been average but still...Ivanhoe? Mind you the whole bench is hardly burting with alternatives. Delfouneso.. is he ever gonna get a run or will he be quietly let go next summer?
I presume the logic is that our best opportunity was likely to come from a set-piece lumped into their box. Combined with the poor defending from their corners a big lump might have been useful. Flawed logic on the manager's park with Clark was the obvious choice to come on instead, particularly in light the goals he scored last season from set-pieces.
Delfouneso is injured, so I'm not sure what relevance he has to yesterday.
oh right. bbc name him as a sub for some reason.
Fair point. I read in the week that he was still out with the injury he got with the U21s.
Even so, I'm not sure yesterday was the right sort of scenario for him to come on - and I'd have brought Heskey on over Fonz as well.
But I still wouldn't have bothered bringing Heskey on.
Dunno. After the 2nd went in i would have gone for it. might as well lose 3-1 than 2-1. fonz may have caused them some problems but we all knew Ivanhoe wouldn't
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In hindsight we'd have been better taking off Bent when we went down to 10 men as I can't remember a useful thing he did after that. And imagine the pelters Heskey would get for that miss if it had been him smacking that chance into the Lower North crowd.
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On the setanta feed yesterday, Pat Nevin said that Herd didn't argue so he must have been guilty. Case closed.
Because arguing would make the ref change his mind.
That is great well done Pat Niven. Kids listening to that have learnt that they MUST argue if they are cautioned by the referee.
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Not much else to add to what has already been said the linesman / Dowd were a disgrace it was never a penalty or sending off in a million years.
If I have to watch them lump another ball forward to Bent I'm not going to be responsible for my actions. All game that's all they do, Bent will never win it in the air it's not his game and it never bloody will be. I can't believe Bannan has come in for stick on here he is one of the few players actually tries to play the kind of balls Bent needs, ok they might not always come off but at least he knows what he needs.
I have to say it is pretty depressing watching us at the moment, the whole club appears to have just given up.
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Probably going over old ground (not read the whole thread, life's too short), but most teams react to adversity and oing down to ten men by showing some character and fight, we, with the honourable exception of Barry Banana, rolled over and let West Brom (fucking West Brom for fucks sake) tickle our parts. Absolutely pathetic.
Yes the sending off was bollocks, and yes we may have lost the game anyway, but to not even look like they wanted to battle for the cause is unforgivable. I spent most of the second half laughing with a couple of blokes behind me, because if we didn't take the piss out of the pathetic bunch of losers we'd have been smashing up the Witton Lane End.
You are ...going over stuff that has been said but bloody obvious needs to be restated here again and again. Yes poor decisions are made but the fact is they missed the pen and that and the unfair sending off of one of your kid players should have provided the catalyst for the senior players and a good coach (?) to do something positive. As you say FFS it was West Brom a donkey PL team we were playing. Hodgson sorted us out last season when his team was down to 10.
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Not much else to add to what has already been said the linesman / Dowd were a disgrace it was never a penalty or sending off in a million years.
If I have to watch them lump another ball forward to Bent I'm not going to be responsible for my actions. All game that's all they do, Bent will never win it in the air it's not his game and it never bloody will be. I can't believe Bannan has come in for stick on here he is one of the few players actually tries to play the kind of balls Bent needs, ok they might not always come off but at least he knows what he needs.
I have to say it is pretty depressing watching us at the moment, the whole club appears to have just given up.
yep, its criminal playing those sort of balls to Bent. Why FFS? Just sell him if he doesn't suit your style of play. The way its going we'll end up offloading him at a loss when last season he was looking a bargain.
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Probably going over old ground (not read the whole thread, life's too short), but most teams react to adversity and oing down to ten men by showing some character and fight, we, with the honourable exception of Barry Banana, rolled over and let West Brom (fucking West Brom for fucks sake) tickle our parts. Absolutely pathetic.
Yes the sending off was bollocks, and yes we may have lost the game anyway, but to not even look like they wanted to battle for the cause is unforgivable. I spent most of the second half laughing with a couple of blokes behind me, because if we didn't take the piss out of the pathetic bunch of losers we'd have been smashing up the Witton Lane End.
You are ...going over stuff that has been said but bloody obvious needs to be restated here again and again. Yes poor decisions are made but the fact is they missed the pen and that and the unfair sending off of one of your kid players should have provided the catalyst for the senior players and a good coach (?) to do something positive. As you say FFS it was West Brom a donkey PL team we were playing. Hodgson sorted us out last season when his team was down to 10.
That point about them going down to 10 at the Hawthorns is spot on, we were dominating the game 11v11 but as soon as Scharner went they did what we should've done yesterday, stifle the midfield and hit us on the break, its basic fucking stuff.
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Are the club going to appeal the sending off or with it being Dowd, would it be a waste of time?
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Are the club going to appeal the sending off or with it being Dowd, would it be a waste of time?
I'd be a bit pissed if we didn't considering it wasn't even Dowd's decision. He can easily pass the buck to the linesman
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Was pleased when I saw the line up yesterday, and when the game started thought we were beginning to settle down ok. Herd was doing ok in front of the back four, giving us a good basis and Petrov was playing further forward and linking with Bannan. The problem was the service wasn't quite getting through to Gabby and Bent but I thought there was signs it was coming together and having taken the lead, thought a second goal would have killed the match off. Then the sending off changed all that and we were a dispirited bunch who were just waiting for the inevitable.
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Bent thrives on service and chances. He ain't getting any, then one comes along that Harry's Mrs could have scored and he misses it. Lack of confidence and pressure. He probably knows he won't get another sight on goal for a couple of weeks!
NO ATTEMPTS ON TARGET!!!!
UNBELIEVABLE!
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McCleish out :(
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The baggies can play good football, that must be acknowledged and against a shit Villa team, they were allowed to play.
The solution isn't Albrighton though - he's had a very poor 2011 inc last season.
Concerned N'Zog isn't blending in, but he's not used to the 'hoof and hope' game we seem to play.
We are great in possession in our own half, but in the final third we shit ourselves.
Everything is too frantic, too rushed ( apart from Stan) - we continue to appear to be the away team at home.
Missing Ash and Downing very very much.
34k against the Baggies says a great many aren't bothering this season, and I fail to see any light at the end of the tunnel.
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Well if you see a bloke with long dreads running like a girl to get his pie at half time...its probably Daniel Johnson.
You can't use your free pie voucher at half time.
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Never a penalty.
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I've just seen it again on Goals on Sunday and it was just a nonsense decision.
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I've just seen it again on Goals on Sunday and it was just a nonsense decision.
yep me too what a complete joke
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I've just seen it again on Goals on Sunday and it was just a nonsense decision.
I keep replaying it in my head and it's getting worse.
It's clear Herd makes no contact with Olsson who seems perfectly happy to just get on with it.
With several other decisions how can Dowd continue to officiate at this level?
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I refuse the blame the 10 man disadvantage for our dreadful performance though.
We'd have lost with 12 men yesterday the way we're playing.
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I refuse the blame the 10 man disadvantage for our dreadful performance though.
We'd have lost with 12 men yesterday the way we're playing.
We'd have won comfortably if Herd had not been sent off imo It knocked the stuffing out of us-unacceptable I know
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Are the club going to appeal the sending off or with it being Dowd, would it be a waste of time?
Rodwell's red was recinded on appeal - and I think Herd was even less in the wrong than that (which was a crazy decision). Of course, the FA may look at the leniency toward Hutton and decide to punish Villa through Hered anyway.
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Herd looked really good, but Petrov is past it.
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For me, the problems stem from the weakness throughthe central midfield - problems that were evident even when MON was with us. Tiote and Cabaye are the reason - amongst others - that the barcodes are doing well. We just do not have the combination of solidity and guile that they represent.
The solution? - I don't think Irleand and Heskey are the answers, so we have to look at the rookies to step up and make things happen. This may mean a central three from Bannan, Herd, Clark, Johnson, Delph and Gardner - why not try them? Nothing else has worked thus far!
And then in January, we may have to go out and buy some experience to blend in with Jenas (f he's fit by that time).
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Also, what I first saw as a hard but committed challenge by Hutton was a straight red.
(Edited for typo')
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Had my stripey flith supporting mate taking the piss non-stop since the result yesterday and its going to get worse when I see him tonight. Apparently they are the pride of the Midlands now. Anyone got any decent witty comebacks for these Smethwick inbreds?
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We've won more trophies in the 38 years it's taken them to record a win at VP?
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I thought it was 32 years? I'm going to need a lot more than that so keep them coming!
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We don't have an ugly breakfast TV host as a celebrity supporter?
Our players don't look like they have been bought from the Tesco Value range?
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Probably going over old ground (not read the whole thread, life's too short), but most teams react to adversity and oing down to ten men by showing some character and fight, we, with the honourable exception of Barry Banana, rolled over and let West Brom (fucking West Brom for fucks sake) tickle our parts. Absolutely pathetic.
Manu have the same attitude times six it seems.
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We are still above them in the league.
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Had my stripey flith supporting mate taking the piss non-stop since the result yesterday and its going to get worse when I see him tonight. Apparently they are the pride of the Midlands now. Anyone got any decent witty comebacks for these Smethwick inbreds?
Yes. Tell him to look at the table and then tell you who is the highest Midlands team.
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Had my stripey flith supporting mate taking the piss non-stop since the result yesterday and its going to get worse when I see him tonight. Apparently they are the pride of the Midlands now. Anyone got any decent witty comebacks for these Smethwick inbreds?
a) Shake their hand and say "Well done. It's always good to see a little team win."
b) Listen to what they say and reply "Yes. And?"
c) Inform them that you'll see them again in 2043.
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Could you post your Baggies rant, Dave?
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Had my stripey flith supporting mate taking the piss non-stop since the result yesterday and its going to get worse when I see him tonight. Apparently they are the pride of the Midlands now. Anyone got any decent witty comebacks for these Smethwick inbreds?
When they take the piss put of the crowd yesterday and our gates so far this season ask them when they last had 34K for a game and that we will still average over 30K this season and ask when they last did that as well. Also mention how you'd think that a fan of a club that struggled to average 10K in the mid 80s and couldn't even manage 25K for their derby would know better than to talk attendances.
If they come out with shift of power in the Midlands bollocks say that when they've finished above us for 30 years in a row, gone 25 years unbeaten against us in all competitions, had a 32 year old unbeaten league run at home against us and have had higher gates than us for 40 straight years, then he may have a point and can mention it again as his comment may actually have a chance of validity.
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We've won more trophies in the 38 years it's taken them to record a win at VP?
Some baggies fan said on WM he's been coming down to VP spouted out twaddle like he's has suffered 30 odd years of hurt. How many years have we been in the same division as them. You can't beat a team if you can't paly them
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We don't have an ugly breakfast TV host as a celebrity supporter?
Our players don't look like they have been bought from the Tesco Value range?
He looks like a toby jug filled with hot piss.
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I think Bent will be gone in January for £17 million to Q.P.R followed by Nzogbia for £6 million to Stoke .
Mcleish will be sacked in March with Heskey taking over as temp manager to the summer as Paul Lambert turns us down to stay at Norwich.
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We don't have an ugly breakfast TV host as a celebrity supporter?
Our players don't look like they have been bought from the Tesco Value range?
He looks like a toby jug filled with hot piss.
2:50 Mins into the clip:
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I think Bent will be gone in January for £17 million to Q.P.R followed by Nzogbia for £6 million to Stoke .
Mcleish will be sacked in March with Heskey taking over as temp manager to the summer as Paul Lambert turns us down to stay at Norwich.
I think Bent has already made his mind up, and N'Zog, from what we have seen so far, it really isn't a problem.
Having seen the incident again on MOTD it was a poor decision, but as Mark mentions from a different angle you could have a different opinion albeit a wrong one IMO.
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I think Bent will be gone in January for £17 million to Q.P.R followed by Nzogbia for £6 million to Stoke .
Mcleish will be sacked in March with Heskey taking over as temp manager to the summer as Paul Lambert turns us down to stay at Norwich.
Habib Beye as assistant? (Surely he should do something for the wages he's on.)
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That c*** Olsson clenching his fists and smiling after cheating a peno out of us...he must have thought he'd won the lotto. If Herd had stamped on him why did Olsson get up immediately without a care in the world?
Its unfair to say he cheated us out of a penalty. As you say he got up straight away and carried on with the game. He looked a mixture of astounded and delighted (as any player would) when it was awarded.
His comments after the game were odd though. If he knew he'd been stamped on, he'd have been rightly furious.
Cheating was exactly what he did. No question. The ref had already had a word and he tried to provoke Herd into reacting.
So was his non reaction after the incident some sort of genius double bluff then?
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That c*** Olsson clenching his fists and smiling after cheating a peno out of us...he must have thought he'd won the lotto. If Herd had stamped on him why did Olsson get up immediately without a care in the world?
Its unfair to say he cheated us out of a penalty. As you say he got up straight away and carried on with the game. He looked a mixture of astounded and delighted (as any player would) when it was awarded.
His comments after the game were odd though. If he knew he'd been stamped on, he'd have been rightly furious.
Cheating was exactly what he did. No question. The ref had already had a word and he tried to provoke Herd into reacting.
So was his non reaction after the incident some sort of genius double bluff then?
He punched the air in celebration when the penalty was awarded, knowing his ploy had worked.
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Olsson didn't cheat or provoke Herd into anything.
The referee and linesman got it wrong. Olsson punched the air because he'd got a penalty for no good reason.
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That c*** Olsson clenching his fists and smiling after cheating a peno out of us...he must have thought he'd won the lotto. If Herd had stamped on him why did Olsson get up immediately without a care in the world?
Its unfair to say he cheated us out of a penalty. As you say he got up straight away and carried on with the game. He looked a mixture of astounded and delighted (as any player would) when it was awarded.
His comments after the game were odd though. If he knew he'd been stamped on, he'd have been rightly furious.
Cheating was exactly what he did. No question. The ref had already had a word and he tried to provoke Herd into reacting.
So was his non reaction after the incident some sort of genius double bluff then?
He punched the air in celebration when the penalty was awarded, knowing his ploy had worked.
So like more or less every player that has a penalty given in their favour then?
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Olsson didn't cheat or provoke Herd into anything.
The referee and linesman got it wrong. Olsson punched the air because he'd got a penalty for no good reason.
Completely correct.
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That c*** Olsson clenching his fists and smiling after cheating a peno out of us...he must have thought he'd won the lotto. If Herd had stamped on him why did Olsson get up immediately without a care in the world?
Its unfair to say he cheated us out of a penalty. As you say he got up straight away and carried on with the game. He looked a mixture of astounded and delighted (as any player would) when it was awarded.
His comments after the game were odd though. If he knew he'd been stamped on, he'd have been rightly furious.
Cheating was exactly what he did. No question. The ref had already had a word and he tried to provoke Herd into reacting.
So was his non reaction after the incident some sort of genius double bluff then?
He punched the air in celebration when the penalty was awarded, knowing his ploy had worked.
I agree that he was trying to wind Herd up (think they were both trying to get at each other to be honest) , but surely during the incident itself he would have stayed down, rolled around in agony or gone sprinting to the ref to complain. (he'd have had enough time, Dowd didn't see the flag for a few seconds)
The linesman is the only person to really blame for the awarding of the penalty, he made an atrocious decision.
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Olsson didn't cheat or provoke Herd into anything.
The referee and linesman got it wrong. Olsson punched the air because he'd got a penalty for no good reason.
Of course he fucking did. Grabbing an opponents leg as they move away is against the laws of the game. In other words, it's cheating. He knew exactly what he was doing, hoping to get a reaction from an inexperienced player.
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Olsson didn't cheat or provoke Herd into anything.
The referee and linesman got it wrong. Olsson punched the air because he'd got a penalty for no good reason.
Of course he fucking did. Grabbing an opponents leg as they move away is against the laws of the game. In other words, it's cheating. He knew exactly what he was doing, hoping to get a reaction from an inexperienced player.
I think you're accrediting Olsson with far more cunning and nous than he actually has.
It was a terrible decision by the referee, but in my opinion, accusing Olsson of some evil plan is every bit as misguided as Hodgson telling MOTD that it was a stamp.
There's plenty evidence we were hard done by without resorting to the far fetched.
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I think Chelsea showed today with 9 what we should have done with 10 yesterday
Even with 9 men QPR were at times hanging on, and Chelsea had the chances to at least of got a draw.
We just seemed to give up
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What I'm saying, Paulie, is that he knew after the warning had been given that the officials would be watching. He grabbed Herd's leg just enough for him to react but not enough to trip him over, it wasn't as though he was stopping him going for the ball because it wasn't there.
It wasn't cunning or evil, just common-or-garden cheating. The sort that goes on in every game; QPR players were doing the same sort of thing to Luiz today, pinching and prodding him at a corner trying to make him lose it.
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He punched the air in celebration when the penalty was awarded, knowing his ploy had worked.
Complete rubbish. He did what every player does if they get a pen deserved or not. Ours would do the same in similar situation.
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I think Chelsea showed today with 9 what we should have done with 10 yesterday
Even with 9 men QPR were at times hanging on, and Chelsea had the chances to at least of got a draw.
We just seemed to give up
True, but then Chelsea do have much better players than us.
Conversely, so do Manu who made an even worse fist if it than we did.
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I think Chelsea showed today with 9 what we should have done with 10 yesterday
Even with 9 men QPR were at times hanging on, and Chelsea had the chances to at least of got a draw.
We just seemed to give up
Yes. There is no way you should lose specially to a poor team like Albion if you are down to 10 but leading. Our senior players and Manager were clueless.
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He punched the air in celebration when the penalty was awarded, knowing his ploy had worked.
Complete rubbish. He did what every player does if they get a pen deserved or not. Ours would do the same in similar situation.
You're extremely naive and have never played a game of football in your life if you can't see what he was doing. Why else does he grab his leg?
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He punched the air in celebration when the penalty was awarded, knowing his ploy had worked.
Complete rubbish. He did what every player does if they get a pen deserved or not. Ours would do the same in similar situation.
You're extremely naive and have never played a game of football in your life if you can't see what he was doing. Why else does he grab his leg?
::)
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We're fucking diabolical.
99% of our players are turd.
McLeish and Lerner out.
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I think Chelsea showed today with 9 what we should have done with 10 yesterday
Even with 9 men QPR were at times hanging on, and Chelsea had the chances to at least of got a draw.
We just seemed to give up
True, but then Chelsea do have much better players than us.
Conversely, so do Manu who made an even worse fist if it than we did.
The thing that annoys me about the second half yesterday is that for the first 20 minutes our players just seemed to feel sorry for themselves at the injustice of the sending off.
Only when Albion got their second was there any type of a reaction.
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We're fucking diabolical.
99% of our players are turd.
McLeish and Lerner out.
No we're not.
Not even close.
Why?
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We're fucking diabolical.
99% of our players are turd.
McLeish and Lerner out.
We are incredibly average
75% of our players our incredibly average
Shouldn't have been appointed, but should at least be given till the new year. There doesn't seem to be anyone lining up to buy us.
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We're fucking diabolical.
99% of our players are turd.
McLeish and Lerner out.
Haven't you got an Albion site to be playing on?
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We're not "fucking diabolical", but there are some worrying combinations:
- A paper-thin and unbalanced squad with a lot of players that are either underperforming, past it or unproven (allthough promising)
- A manager who has a record of being unable to stop the rot when it sets in, and who has a minimum of goodwill in the bank
- A owner who seems to have lost interest and who has abruptly changed the level of investment in the playing side. (Fans of Leeds and Portsmouth know that such shifts can be troublesome.)
However, the squad has still got some good players -- and allthough the gaping hole in our central midfield is a big worry, there is probably a decent mid-table Premier League side there somewhere. And our manager also has a record where he on occasions has managed to get alot out of little.
This can still go many ways, I feel.
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What a state of affairs when the appearance of Jermaine Jenas is going to be a season highlight!
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i am amazed at the support of our club from alot of our so called supporters. take a long hard look at yourselves. and to all blaming tactics for playing with 1 less in the team, well, man utd and chelsea did it really well today didnt they!
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i am amazed at the support of our club from alot of our so called supporters. take a long hard look at yourselves. and to all blaming tactics for playing with 1 less in the team, well, man utd and chelsea did it really well today didnt they!
What on earth are you talking about? Chelsea went down to nine men and didn't concede any further goals, instead coming close to getting something out of the game.
A lot of fans are upset at the way our club seems to be progressing at the moment, we don't have to pretend that everything is perfect you know.
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i am amazed at the support of our club from alot of our so called supporters. take a long hard look at yourselves. and to all blaming tactics for playing with 1 less in the team, well, man utd and chelsea did it really well today didnt they!
What on earth are you talking about? Chelsea went down to nine men and didn't concede any further goals, instead coming close to getting something out of the game.
they got fuck all and man u got fuck all! FACT!
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i am amazed at the support of our club from alot of our so called supporters. take a long hard look at yourselves. and to all blaming tactics for playing with 1 less in the team, well, man utd and chelsea did it really well today didnt they!
We were shit with 11 men aswell. Ok we had 10 men but that second half performance was laughable, not one shot on target. We played like we had 8 men not 10.
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i am amazed at the support of our club from alot of our so called supporters. take a long hard look at yourselves. and to all blaming tactics for playing with 1 less in the team, well, man utd and chelsea did it really well today didnt they!
What on earth are you talking about? Chelsea went down to nine men and didn't concede any further goals, instead coming close to getting something out of the game.
they got fuck all and man u got fuck all! FACT!
They conceded no further goals when down to nine men FACT!
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i am amazed at the support of our club from alot of our so called supporters. take a long hard look at yourselves. and to all blaming tactics for playing with 1 less in the team, well, man utd and chelsea did it really well today didnt they!
What on earth are you talking about? Chelsea went down to nine men and didn't concede any further goals, instead coming close to getting something out of the game.
they got fuck all and man u got fuck all! FACT!
They conceded no further goals when down to nine men FACT!
how many did manure concede?
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I think Chelsea showed today with 9 what we should have done with 10 yesterday
Even with 9 men QPR were at times hanging on, and Chelsea had the chances to at least of got a draw.
We just seemed to give up
This.
It's the lack of a plan B and lack of desoire that p****d me off.
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Getting a man sent off makes things tough, but as both West Brom showed last year and QPR also showed a few weeks ago it doesn't excuse clueless football and baffling substitutions (or lack of them).
If the team had lost yesterday, but battled to the end and really gone for it then I don't think there would have the level of criticism we have on here at the moment.
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I think Chelsea showed today with 9 what we should have done with 10 yesterday
Even with 9 men QPR were at times hanging on, and Chelsea had the chances to at least of got a draw.
We just seemed to give up
This.
It's the lack of a plan B and lack of desoire that p****d me off.
yeah i quite like what mak has to say, he apparantly may have, alledegedly, could of, if the angle was correct from where i was looking whilst eating my pie said that herd looked like he stamped on olsen. i will believe a load of what mark has to say. Not!
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i am amazed at the support of our club from alot of our so called supporters. take a long hard look at yourselves. and to all blaming tactics for playing with 1 less in the team, well, man utd and chelsea did it really well today didnt they!
I couldn't give a shit about ManU and Chelsea. They're not the team I've supported for over 50 years.
Players and management have never had it so good. They seem to forget the main reason why they are where they are. They DO have an obligation to sort out shit, reorganise so it's less shit and run their bollocks off if necessary. No one seemed to want to do that for us yesterday.
I want my team to do well. Playing the way we did yesterday will not contribute one iota to that happening.
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Rutski, words fail me
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Rutski, words fail me
your eyesite has!
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http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11096_2705370,00.html
This was posted in another thread - and sums up why I am fed up.
The stats are the stats of a team in trouble - and apart from City we havent played anyone any good yet.
Worrying times.
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Rutski, words fail me
Seconded,by the way he is writing I think he has been at the cooking sherry.
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i am amazed at the support of our club from alot of our so called supporters. take a long hard look at yourselves. and to all blaming tactics for playing with 1 less in the team, well, man utd and chelsea did it really well today didnt they!
What on earth are you talking about? Chelsea went down to nine men and didn't concede any further goals, instead coming close to getting something out of the game.
they got fuck all and man u got fuck all! FACT!
They conceded no further goals when down to nine men FACT!
Manu conceded 5 (five) when down to ten men.
The point us we don't currently have the players where losing a msn can be easily dealt with. We lack the nous and the experience in key positions to just shrug it off.
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http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11096_2705370,00.html
This was posted in another thread - and sums up why I am fed up.
The stats are the stats of a team in trouble - and apart from City we havent played anyone any good yet.
Worrying times.
Fewer successful passes than anyone but three teams.
Fewer shots on goal than anyone but four teams.
Fewer shots on target than anyone but two teams.
And this in a pretty easy start to the season, fixtures-wise. We're in for a very long, very hard season, i fear.
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i am amazed at the support of our club from alot of our so called supporters. take a long hard look at yourselves. and to all blaming tactics for playing with 1 less in the team, well, man utd and chelsea did it really well today didnt they!
Chelsea should have got a result, they created chances whilst down to nine. United were ripped to shreds but look at some of the goals they conceded, there's one where James Milner plays a one two and Ashley Young doesn't track him, being one man down doesn't excuse that. They score another where there are two unmarked players at the far post from a corner, being one man down doesn't excuse that.
We conceded yesterday from a corner, being one man down doesn't excuse that. These are goals you'll concede with 11 on the pitch if players aren't on their toes.
Our passing is woeful, the coaching staff should be ashamed, this isn't all McLeish's fault, we've had this problem for a while, but he is in charge now and he needs to address it, we give the ball away way too easily, that is something we should be able to put right.
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Manu conceded 5 (five) when down to ten men.
The point us we don't currently have the players where losing a msn can be easily dealt with. We lack the nous and the experience in key positions to just shrug it off.
I reckon we'd have done better if we'd only lost a Yahoo, but if we'd lost a Skype we might done a Man Ure.
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i am amazed at the support of our club from alot of our so called supporters. take a long hard look at yourselves. and to all blaming tactics for playing with 1 less in the team, well, man utd and chelsea did it really well today didnt they!
I would expect a well drilled team to have a plan for matches where one of the team get sent off. It would probably include playing a little more compact, retaining possession and generally working harder to cover more ground. Yesterday we did exactly the opposite and were shocking. rutski, you are right in questioning the attitude of some of our fellow supporters but yesterday's game made me realise that the quality of coaching at VP has not improved with the arrival of the new manager and we seem to be making the same mistakes time and again. If we were trying something radical and it wasn't working then I could accept that, but our performance was just a replay of all the other dismal displays which we've seen over the last 2 or 3 seasons. The players need to take some responsibility however they didn't seem to be any more organised or motivated than during the darkest days of Houlliers term. I'd prefer not to criticise the club but yesterday made me realise that we are going backwards.
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Before anyone says " Don't blame McLeish" who the hell can we blame??? We are boring to watch the team are not interested this was evident to see on Saturday when teams go down to ten men they usuallput up a fight what did we do? Rolled over and didn't bother. The sooner Mcleish goes the better otherwise we are going to be in real trouble. Sinderland next then Norwich and Swansea before the real big games come along. We are a joke there is no atmosphere at the ground any more. For christ sake lets do something and start letting Mcleish know that we don't want him.
He is now the first manager for 32 years to lose at home against the baggies what other records will he make ? The first manager to take both Bham teams down. We have had enough of this boring football do us a favour and go.
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I can't blame Heskey or Petrov, but their time has come and gone, time to get some youthful exburence in the team, and before we go on about experience in the team, where was the leadership on the pitch yday?
Exactly, where was the leadership? We have lacked it for a while.
Despite his shortcomings, Downing used to constantly drive us forward, before him, Milner through the middle and before him, Barry always knew when to step it up a level when needed. Now we lack any drive and passion from any player that has that ability. Missing out on Scott Parker in the summer was an huge mistake and one we're likely to pay for until we rebuild the central midfield.
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It comes down to this for me with McLeish. If you are down to ten men, and losing, bringing on Emile Heskey as a central midfielder is ridiculous, and can never be the answer. Considering we had Albrighton and Ireland on the bench who are employed as midfielders, to bring on Heskey is inept at worst, blind faith at best. The formation of 4-3-2, when down to ten and losing, was suicidal, and quite frankly it was a miracle we didnt ship more than one in the second half. Going with a midfield of three against their five, how could that ever work? One of Bent or Gabby needed to be sacrificed IMO for a midfielder, in one of many variations. Although, no fight in ou team at all anyway.
Never mind eh!
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The obvious replacement was Clark. His devotion to Heskey is most concerning.
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Calling all Villa Fans !!!!!!!!!!!
It is now time to start McLEISH how we feel we are too quiet at Villa Park. What is it with us? Not once has anyone jeered him at Villa Park? Why? We have given him eleven games how much more time does he need? December is going to be the mother of all months for us and how many points will we pick up?
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Finally saw the sending off/penalty on MOTD2 last night and it confirmed what I though at the ground Saturday - never even a foul! It was very telling that the WBA players looked as bemused and confused as ours did when it happened. UP to that point I thought we were the better side, even if we hadn't created all that much. I reckon we were heading for a relatively routine home win up to that point.
Afterwards, there's a lot to be critical of. The mentality of the side seemed all wrong to me - we should have been playing like lions to make up for the injustice, yet just went within ourselves and allowed WBA to dictate the play. And then it was two goals from set pieces, a basic you'd expect a manager like AM to get right. The substitutions were baffling - it should have been Clark for N'Zogbia once we lost Herd and then, when chasing a goal late on, Albrighton for one of the fullbacks and go 3-4-2. The only sense Heskey made was for defending set pieces, but as we were 1-2 down wheh he came on why think of damage limitation when a goal down at home?
Worst day under McLeish so far.
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Up to the sending off i thought we looked pretty decent - Herd especially gave us some bit in midfield and we looked like we could take them relatively easy
Then the sending off - in the first instance i genuinely (from my view from the dug out) thought it was for handball from the free kick - then when the card was shown i assumed it was for desent or swearing as i just did not see the incident in real time. Once i saw it on the pitch it is inconclusive at the very best so no way should it have been a pen or a sending off.
The i was shocked at the tactical inability of the manager - truely shocked
Bent off, Gabby up top on own and a midfielder on to shore up the pack across the pitch
What happened then defied belief - Heskey comes on in Midfield and we get completely run over - was anyone surprised?
Have tried to support McLeish but his signings (N'Zogbia and Hutton) are 2 of the worst i have seen - apart from the small price Given was a no brainer that even a novice would have snapped up
I said to a mate on way to game that all season he has struggled to pick the right mix in midfield. Considering the striking options and defensive line up picks itself that is all he has had to work out. No whether by luck or design Herd seemed to be the missing link for the time he was on the pitch - i hope his copybook is not blotted due to sending off as i think he could be a player for us.
Someon said at the game - we have turned into the Cleveland browns - happy to participate but know that we will never be a force again
really sad
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Herd was our best player up to the point of his sending off. We looked comfortable and had he stayed on the pitch they would have had to work harder at those set pieces they scored from.
We were very poor with 10 men, clueless almost. I couldn't see the point of bringing Heskey on, there were far better options.
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Man Yoo were behind when they went down to 10 men and were obliged to press forward and chase the game. That was bound to leave gaps that players as good as Silva, Arguero, Balotelli and Dzeko (and even Milner who was excellent) could exploit.
Chelsea were also a goal down when they went down to 9 men. They still managed to murder QPR for much of the second half.
We were a goal up and just rolled over and died.
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I dread to think how we'd have done had we been playing a decent side on Saturday. We were lucky that Albion are so shit up front or we could have taken a Man United-style hiding.
10 men or not, we showed little spirit for a toe-to-toe scrap with our own noisy neighbours.
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One thing that puzzled me,why on earth was Herd picking up Ollson.Surely,along with Scharner,he was the major threat at set pieces and hence a job for the Dunne/Collins axis.It wasn't just the card incident,he'd had him all afternoon.
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One thing that puzzled me,why on earth was Herd picking up Ollson.Surely,along with Scharner,he was the major threat at set pieces and hence a job for the Dunne/Collins axis.It wasn't just the card incident,he'd had him all afternoon.
My guess is because Herd is very good in the air, and our two Centre backs were marking zonally
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Yer Herd can get up much higher than Dunney can.
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Calling all Villa Fans !!!!!!!!!!!
It is now time to start McLEISH how we feel we are too quiet at Villa Park. What is it with us? Not once has anyone jeered him at Villa Park? Why? We have given him eleven games how much more time does he need? December is going to be the mother of all months for us and how many points will we pick up?
I think the honest answer to that is less and less people actually care anymore.
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Calling all Villa Fans !!!!!!!!!!!
It is now time to start McLEISH how we feel we are too quiet at Villa Park. What is it with us? Not once has anyone jeered him at Villa Park? Why? We have given him eleven games how much more time does he need? December is going to be the mother of all months for us and how many points will we pick up?
Yeah, I reckon that's the answer to our malaise.
We need to start jeering the manager. Perhaps we could find where he parks and shit on his bonnet. Or throw rotten fruit at him.
That'd lift the spirits.
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He got an excellent reception this morning.
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Perhaps we could find where he parks and shit on his bonnet.
We could have a "What Are You Eating" thread every Friday night and swap tips on brewing up a really good one.
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To clarify my comment. I don't want to jeer him, I don't want to protest. I just want the excitement for the game to return - a big part of that is the owners apparently waining ambitions.
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Perhaps we could find where he parks and shit on his bonnet.
We could have a "What Are You Eating" thread every Friday night and swap tips on brewing up a really good one.
Pity we're away on Boxing Day - would have been some superb 13-inch peanut-studded pan-crackers
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He got an excellent reception this morning.
From who, were they Noses or Baggies supporters? ;D ;D
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Perhaps we could find where he parks and shit on his bonnet.
We could have a "What Are You Eating" thread every Friday night and swap tips on brewing up a really good one.
Pity we're away on Boxing Day - would have been some superb 13-inch peanut-studded pan-crackers
He was manager of da blues for several years, so is a professional in dealing with turds of all shapes and sizes.
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A few thousand Aston Villa fans at the open-air training session. Couldn't hear a word he said when interviewed on the pitch, though.
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If anyone knows where he parks im up for shitting on his bonnet :)
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We're not "fucking diabolical", but there are some worrying combinations:
- A paper-thin and unbalanced squad with a lot of players that are either underperforming, past it or unproven (allthough promising)
- A manager who has a record of being unable to stop the rot when it sets in, and who has a minimum of goodwill in the bank
- A owner who seems to have lost interest and who has abruptly changed the level of investment in the playing side. (Fans of Leeds and Portsmouth know that such shifts can be troublesome.)
However, the squad has still got some good players -- and allthough the gaping hole in our central midfield is a big worry, there is probably a decent mid-table Premier League side there somewhere. And our manager also has a record where he on occasions has managed to get alot out of little.
This can still go many ways, I feel.
A fair point of view, but I think the way we're going is only down, unless AM can gee them up. However, following his spell as a pundit on the Man City European game, he didn't impress with his sparkling wit, personality or charisma. I don't think he's more than a dour Scot with a limited approach to the game. I'm still regreting we didn't take a risk with a younger developing manager such as Poyet.
If Bent wants out in January, what then? More in the kitty and a cheap replacement !!
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We are now 5 points down on comparable games versus last season. You might argue with which relegated teams one pairs up this years new arrivals but the trend is there to see. I quite like AM as a character but I said before he arrived that he's an awful record as a manager and if he doesn't relegate us this year he will manage it next year.
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Apart from agreeing with the general opinion that it was fucking torture to watch, I made the following observations:
Walking along the laughably named Lovers Walk (more like muggers Alley), I saw a dead rat which was the size of a small cat.
The Stripey Filth were bathed in sunshine throughout while we in B5 were shrouded in sepulchral shade.
Our full backs seemed to be under instruction to get forward and overlap whenever they could.
Warnock was very good going forward early on, but all our attacks were going down the left side, to the point where Zog wondered over to the left to join in. Ash and Downing used to swap wings, but 2 wingers and an overlapping full back on one side is a new one on me.
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Calling all Villa Fans !!!!!!!!!!!
It is now time to start McLEISH how we feel we are too quiet at Villa Park. What is it with us? Not once has anyone jeered him at Villa Park? Why? We have given him eleven games how much more time does he need? December is going to be the mother of all months for us and how many points will we pick up?
Yeah, I reckon that's the answer to our malaise.
We need to start jeering the manager. Perhaps we could find where he parks and shit on his bonnet. Or throw rotten fruit at him.
That'd lift the spirits.
twat! totally in my opinion of course!
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It's H&V. Even idiots are allowed an opinion.
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He is now the first manager for 32 years to lose at home against the baggies what other records will he make ? The first manager to take both Bham teams down. We have had enough of this boring football do us a favour and go.
It wont happen. Fortunately for McLeish there are at least another 3 teams worse than us this season...take your pick from Wigan, Blackburn, Wolves, Bolton, QPR, Swansea and Norwich. Even if we have an absolute shocker of a season, there are no excuses for finishing lower than 13th...unless any of those teams have a change in management and make a few decent signings in January.
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If only we'd sacked the last manager to lose at home to them...
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Calling all Villa Fans !!!!!!!!!!!
It is now time to start McLEISH how we feel we are too quiet at Villa Park. What is it with us? Not once has anyone jeered him at Villa Park? Why?
Why don't you start the jeering or do you need the comfort of half the Holte End joining in with you first?
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Calling all Villa Fans !!!!!!!!!!!
It is now time to start McLEISH how we feel we are too quiet at Villa Park. What is it with us? Not once has anyone jeered him at Villa Park? Why? We have given him eleven games how much more time does he need? December is going to be the mother of all months for us and how many points will we pick up?
Calling all Villa Fans !!!!!!!!!!!
It is now time to start McLEISH how we feel we are too quiet at Villa Park. What is it with us? Not once has anyone jeered him at Villa Park? Why?
Why don't you start the jeering or do you need the comfort of half the Holte End joining in with you first?
How strange. The same topic has cropped up again in the McLeish thread.