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Author Topic: NSWE Investment  (Read 622315 times)

Offline Risso

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1095 on: July 29, 2019, 12:52:10 PM »
What’s the current capacity of the North Stand and would it’s replacement be sufficient to add another 8000 seats to take us to 50,000? Not sure how long building works would take but I presume capacity would be reduced to approx 35,000 for at least half a season with only 3 stands open?

North Stand 7,086
Witton Lane Stand 9,081
Trinity Road Stand 12,954
Holte End 13,472

So to make Villa Park 50,000 capacity, you'd need to more than double the size of the North Stand, and it would then become the biggest stand at Villa Park.  I just can't see them doing that as a half way measure.

Offline Hookeysmith

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1096 on: July 29, 2019, 12:52:13 PM »
I am sure I read that the Holte was the largest free standing end in European football?

Offline PeterWithe

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1097 on: July 29, 2019, 12:55:01 PM »
A shiny new 60k seat stadium isn't happening anytime soon. The owners will want to see us as a consolidated PL side before they even consider it in my opinion. The most likely compromise is the rebuilding of the NS , which needs doing as a matter of urgency.

If it was my money I wouldn’t spend it on increasing the capacity of one stand whilst the medium term plan will likely to be to knock it down again sometime in the next 10 years. The costs would be high and wasteful.


Offline cdbearsfan

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1098 on: July 29, 2019, 12:56:26 PM »
I am sure I read that the Holte was the largest free standing end in European football?

It was before Man U added a third tier on the Stretford End.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 01:05:59 PM by cdbullyweefan »

Offline KRS

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1099 on: July 29, 2019, 12:57:37 PM »
I would expect a new North Stand to be a wrap around from the Trinity so it should be able to boost capacity to 50k. If further expansion is required then this would form a horseshoe with the Witton being rebuilt.

The current Holte and Trinity are fine as they are, and they could be significantly improved with more modern catering and toilet facilities.

Offline paul_e

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1100 on: July 29, 2019, 01:06:09 PM »
Short-medium term, redevelopment of the north stand seems the obvious choice to me. Existing planning permission in place, build could be done without too much fuss and I think 53,000 capacity would be plenty. let’s worry about complete re-builds/ moving, when we’ve filled a 53,000 ground for a few years.

How many years, after a multi-million pound construction project, would you need to wait for the expense of that development to not look like a massive waste of money?
lets be realistic for minute. Most agree we probably need a bigger ground, or may do soon. We can add 10000+ to the ground, relatively easily and cheaply. City centre site and new 60000 ground is a whole different proposition. Spurs new ground on a site they presumably already owned cost 1bn and their fans are now having to pay eye watering prices for season tickets.

Exactly. Even factoring in the lower building costs in Brum, you'd be doing incredibly well to get that for half the price. Which at £500 million is a colossal amount for any set of owners to take on. Liverpool's new stand just on its own was £110 million.  I don't think it's unreasonable that they might want to take their time and make sure the numbers stack up.

You're actually making my point for me there.

If we go with a full redevelopment costing £500m would anyone agree to spending £100m to replace the north stand now if they're considering a full redevelopment? The Doug Ellis (and I like using that name because the sheer number of problems with the stand is a fantastic legacy for him) would still be a problem because the stand is just too narrow.

If they think we can be attracting 55-60k within 5-6 years then you can't redevelop the north and DE in that timescale to make the ground that size. That's why there are advantages to looking elsewhere.

I agree that inside the ring road would be hard going but, as Percy mentioned, there's a lot of old factory and warehouse units behind st chads (either side of the canal) and I reckon you could get a good sized plot there pretty easily. There'd be planning issues with removing roads (or potentially building over the canal) and I reckon a ground that's a couple of minutes walk from Aston Uni definitely isn't being moved out of it's 'area'.

Again, I'm not saying I want this to happen, I'm just pointing out that, from a pure business perspective it makes more sense than trying to do things quickly on the existing site. If the timescales are 15-20 years then great, stay where we are, buy out as much land around the ground as possible over the next decade and then do a full transformation project with the council. I'd be fine with that, but I'm not sure it's the right approach if our mid term goal is for the club to be fully self-sustaining.

Online Lastfootstamper

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1101 on: July 29, 2019, 01:07:01 PM »
I would expect a new North Stand to be a wrap around from the Trinity so it should be able to boost capacity to 50k. If further expansion is required then this would form a horseshoe with the Witton being rebuilt.

The current Holte and Trinity are fine as they are, and they could be significantly improved with more modern catering and toilet facilities.


They're not fine, they're really, really not. Pitch side, maybe, but not back of house. Where are they going to put these toilets, on the roof?

Online London Villan

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1102 on: July 29, 2019, 01:11:25 PM »
Under Lerner I saw the actual plans for two options of a wrap-around North Stand. There was only about 2000 seat difference between the two options, they were also roughly costed to circa £60m.

I just sense with the new ownership they might want to take the club to next level and have the resources to do it.

If Villa Park is to be redeveloped I think it will be the start of a 20 year plan to shift the stadium back 20 metres to use the space behind the North Stand. The Trinity was built so it could be extended at the North End - so this would help in that respect.

But the new stadium option is an interesting one, not just for us, but the city too. Yes it would be ours and but called Villa Park - but it could host all sorts of other events that currently by-pass Birmingham.

A lot of the new MLS stadiums are built close to the centre of cities, the new LAFC one for example and supporter facilities are light years ahead of what we currently have to endure at Villa Park.





Offline paul_e

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1103 on: July 29, 2019, 01:17:26 PM »
I would expect a new North Stand to be a wrap around from the Trinity so it should be able to boost capacity to 50k. If further expansion is required then this would form a horseshoe with the Witton being rebuilt.

The current Holte and Trinity are fine as they are, and they could be significantly improved with more modern catering and toilet facilities.


If you create that wrap around stand what is actually left of the Villa Park that you're determined to save? You'd have lost the 4 (mostly) self contained stands effect which is one of best things about the ground. Yes the Holte End would still be there untouched but nothing else of the ground would be there anymore (because the work to link the trinity to the North would be huge and would completely change the stand).

Offline paul_e

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1104 on: July 29, 2019, 01:33:55 PM »
Under Lerner I saw the actual plans for two options of a wrap-around North Stand. There was only about 2000 seat difference between the two options, they were also roughly costed to circa £60m.

I just sense with the new ownership they might want to take the club to next level and have the resources to do it.

If Villa Park is to be redeveloped I think it will be the start of a 20 year plan to shift the stadium back 20 metres to use the space behind the North Stand. The Trinity was built so it could be extended at the North End - so this would help in that respect.

But the new stadium option is an interesting one, not just for us, but the city too. Yes it would be ours and but called Villa Park - but it could host all sorts of other events that currently by-pass Birmingham.

A lot of the new MLS stadiums are built close to the centre of cities, the new LAFC one for example and supporter facilities are light years ahead of what we currently have to endure at Villa Park.

The last line is the important bit. We all know how important the history of the club is. Put a new stadium in the right place and you could add a museum of sorts, with loads of info about how the club shaped the future of the sport. You could build the ground, from the outside, as a homage to Villa park as it was 30-40 years ago (but with the holte end largely duplicated in place of the north stand) but with modern toilets, kiosks and facilities. Then outside you could easily create a 'fan park' area and invite vendors from things like the Digbeth Dining Club in as well as having street level bars and a massive shop and ticket office.

Offline Percy McCarthy

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1105 on: July 29, 2019, 01:37:10 PM »
The idea of a new stadium on the old Wholesale Markets site is a non-starter.  The reason for moving the markets is to open up the area to re-link Digbeth and Highgate to the centre so that residential areas can be built (see 'The Big City Plan').  The Planners are not going to accept a massive stadium blocking what they are trying to create. Any new major stadium will have to be built outside the inner ring road.

Any reason why it couldn’t be in the Gun Quarter?

Online Smirker

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1106 on: July 29, 2019, 02:27:05 PM »
Having read this interesting discussion I now support a new stadium.

In the city centre is perfect. I will miss VP and the traveling would be an issue but it would be good for the city and the club, so I am pro new build.

#VoteLeave

Offline Axl Rose

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1107 on: July 29, 2019, 02:42:23 PM »
I know it's the NSWE Investment thread, but would it be possible to add a poll regarding what people prefer regarding leaving Villa Park/staying and redeveloping etc?

Online pauliewalnuts

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1108 on: July 29, 2019, 03:06:21 PM »
I know it's the NSWE Investment thread, but would it be possible to add a poll regarding what people prefer regarding leaving Villa Park/staying and redeveloping etc?

Added a poll.

Offline Axl Rose

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1109 on: July 29, 2019, 03:11:20 PM »
I know it's the NSWE Investment thread, but would it be possible to add a poll regarding what people prefer regarding leaving Villa Park/staying and redeveloping etc?

Added a poll.

Great! Thank you, Paulie.

 


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