Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Comrade Blitz on July 20, 2018, 03:26:30 PM

Title: NSWE Investment
Post by: Comrade Blitz on July 20, 2018, 03:26:30 PM
Here you go:
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 20, 2018, 03:35:33 PM
I don't like the look of that. They appear skint.

Edit: Comment made because I don't see anything in the post above in terms of a link
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 20, 2018, 03:40:29 PM
Good luck and welcome. Hope it all works out for you
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TopDeck113 on July 20, 2018, 03:40:47 PM
So our new invester made his money from fertilizer... Something to remember should it all go to shit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 20, 2018, 03:54:32 PM
While I for one welcome our new bound to be a disaster we are the Villa after all overlords.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on July 20, 2018, 03:56:06 PM
Welcome.
Question number 1. Is there anyway a solution can be found that prevents us selling our best players?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on July 20, 2018, 03:56:52 PM
So our new invester made his money from fertilizer... Something to remember should it all go to shit.
No excuse for not having the best pitch in the top four divisions, then!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 20, 2018, 03:57:17 PM
I apologize if this has been answered in detail elsewhere but a friend of mine (United fan, banker) is asking why the new investors/co-owners can't just purchase the debt and start at 0 as far as FFP is concerned. Is there simply a rule in the FFP regulations that forbids this? Does all income have to be generated by sale of assets to factor against FFP losses?

Thanks.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on July 20, 2018, 03:59:04 PM
Serious question: how will we stop irresponsible people at the club going on another player-buying spree to load us up with more ageing players on long-term contracts?

Now that we have arrested the financial problems, I sincerely hope that there will be an injection of intelligence, common sense and some coaching & tactics!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: frank black on July 20, 2018, 04:01:56 PM
Interesting to see what if any impact this has upon player sales.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 20, 2018, 04:02:59 PM
I apologize if this has been answered in detail elsewhere but a friend of mine (United fan, banker) is asking why the new investors/co-owners can't just purchase the debt and start at 0 as far as FFP is concerned. Is there simply a rule in the FFP regulations that forbids this? Does all income have to be generated by sale of assets to factor against FFP losses?

Thanks.

FFP is just to do with income, expenses and losses. Our problems are caused by falling parachute payments and high wages for wasters like Richards.  The only real way out of the problem is to generate profit on player trading, hence the likely sales of Grealish and Chester.

Unless the new owners take a ‘fuck it’ approach to FFP, they’ll still probably have to be sold.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on July 20, 2018, 04:08:24 PM
I apologize if this has been answered in detail elsewhere but a friend of mine (United fan, banker) is asking why the new investors/co-owners can't just purchase the debt and start at 0 as far as FFP is concerned. Is there simply a rule in the FFP regulations that forbids this? Does all income have to be generated by sale of assets to factor against FFP losses?

Thanks.

FFP is just to do with income, expenses and losses. Our problems are caused by falling parachute payments and high wages for wasters like Richards.  The only real way out of the problem is to generate profit on player trading, hence the likely sales of Grealish and Chester.

Unless the new owners take a ‘fuck it’ approach to FFP, they’ll still probably have to be sold.

Yep, from my seriously alcohol impaired memory, owners can only turn £8m debt into equity per annum. Judging from our borrowing that won't cover our losses. Maybe some FFP-friendly sponsorship (which might mean a trade-off of sell Jack or plonk a fancy name on Villa Park) would help.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: GarTomas on July 20, 2018, 04:09:01 PM
I apologize if this has been answered in detail elsewhere but a friend of mine (United fan, banker) is asking why the new investors/co-owners can't just purchase the debt and start at 0 as far as FFP is concerned. Is there simply a rule in the FFP regulations that forbids this? Does all income have to be generated by sale of assets to factor against FFP losses?

Thanks.

The debt from a company perspective was pretty much wiped when Xia converted the debt to equity (I think)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 20, 2018, 04:09:10 PM
If they sell the players then the value of the club drops overnight. They must have a way around this or they have taken the drop in value into account as part of the deal.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 20, 2018, 04:10:11 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3oKHWikxKFJhjArSXm/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aev on July 20, 2018, 04:10:29 PM
If they sell the players then the value of the club drops overnight. They must have a way around this or they have taken the drop in value into account as part of the deal.

Think I read the 55% stake cost £35m so quite a drop already?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 20, 2018, 04:13:08 PM
If it is £35m for 55% that means it would be cheaper to buy Aston Villa than it was to buy Virgil van Dijk.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 20, 2018, 04:17:20 PM
If they sell the players then the value of the club drops overnight. They must have a way around this or they have taken the drop in value into account as part of the deal.

No it doesn't.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: amfy on July 20, 2018, 04:18:10 PM
My thoughts are that as long as you aren't completely ignoring FFP then a points deduction is unlikely. I reckon as long as we make a stab at it, we'll get away with a fine.

The new investmeant puts us back to just having FFP to worry about - so the figures go back down to about 40mill from what I remember - & we'd already made about 15mill of that by losing the loans and selling people we'd forgotten about like Gollini & Gil - so I I think we'd get away with finding another 10-15mill from players like Bjarnson (who I like but Bruce doesn't) - so maybe Grealish and Chester don't have to go?

Just my musings which make no more or less sense than anyone elses I guess.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Edvard Remberg on July 20, 2018, 04:20:24 PM
Faroese Lions share price just went up
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: darren woolley on July 20, 2018, 04:20:36 PM
I just hope this means we have turned a corner at last we deserve some luck.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 20, 2018, 04:22:16 PM
But most important can we possibly tell Levy to fuck off?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Legion on July 20, 2018, 04:24:32 PM
(https://pics.me.me/for-one-welcome-our-new-billionaire-overlords-quick-meme-con-10454462.png)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: in exile on July 20, 2018, 04:25:22 PM
But most important can we possibly tell Levy to fuck off?

Given what Risso said, no
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: darren woolley on July 20, 2018, 04:25:25 PM
But most important can we possibly tell Levy to fuck off?

Too right.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 20, 2018, 04:30:01 PM
If they sell the players then the value of the club drops overnight. They must have a way around this or they have taken the drop in value into account as part of the deal.

No it doesn't.

Do you not think so? We have Jack worth £20m(ish) - if he is sold are we still as valuable?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SamTheMouse on July 20, 2018, 04:34:22 PM
I'm a lot happier today than I was yesterday.

Now I'm going out to buy lots of alcohol.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 20, 2018, 04:36:27 PM
If they sell the players then the value of the club drops overnight. They must have a way around this or they have taken the drop in value into account as part of the deal.

No it doesn't.

Do you not think so? We have Jack worth £20m(ish) - if he is sold are we still as valuable?


From a common sense point of view, if we sell him for something like a realistic valuation, then there's no difference.  We're swapping a player for a pot of cash.  From an accounting point of view, we're actually better off, as he's worth nothing in the books at the moment (youth team players' values aren't capitalised) so every penny we get for him would be pure profit.  We'd then have £25m cash (or whatever) and a profit to offset against FFP losses.

I still want him to stay, obviously, I just think it'll be very difficult for him to.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: WarszaVillan on July 20, 2018, 04:39:12 PM
If they sell the players then the value of the club drops overnight. They must have a way around this or they have taken the drop in value into account as part of the deal.

No it doesn't.

Do you not think so? We have Jack worth £20m(ish) - if he is sold are we still as valuable?


If we get £20m(ish) for him, I guess yes.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 20, 2018, 04:39:14 PM
I remain sceptical until I see Nassef and Wes'  Villa tattoos
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: UK Redsox on July 20, 2018, 04:42:59 PM
If they sell the players then the value of the club drops overnight. They must have a way around this or they have taken the drop in value into account as part of the deal.

No it doesn't.

Do you not think so? We have Jack worth £20m(ish) - if he is sold are we still as valuable?


From a common sense point of view, if we sell him for something like a realistic valuation, then there's no difference.  We're swapping a player for a pot of cash.  From an accounting point of view, we're actually better off, as he's worth nothing in the books at the moment (youth team players' values aren't capitalised) so every penny we get for him would be pure profit.  We'd then have £25m cash (or whatever) and a profit to offset against FFP losses.

I still want him to stay, obviously, I just think it'll be very difficult for him to.

It's also time that Jack was testing himself in the Premier League. Even after today's good news, given the FFP restrictions, it could still take a few years for Villa to climb out of this hole, so it's probably not in his best interests in hanging around for that time.

Still don't see Spurs as the right move for him. How much money do Burnley have ?

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 20, 2018, 04:44:34 PM
we are considerably richer now
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: frank black on July 20, 2018, 04:45:41 PM
I remain sceptical until I see Nassef and Wes'  Villa tattoos

tarikh fakhur mushriq almustaqbal
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on July 20, 2018, 04:46:06 PM
If they sell the players then the value of the club drops overnight. They must have a way around this or they have taken the drop in value into account as part of the deal.

No it doesn't.

Do you not think so? We have Jack worth £20m(ish) - if he is sold are we still as valuable?


From a common sense point of view, if we sell him for something like a realistic valuation, then there's no difference.  We're swapping a player for a pot of cash.  From an accounting point of view, we're actually better off, as he's worth nothing in the books at the moment (youth team players' values aren't capitalised) so every penny we get for him would be pure profit.  We'd then have £25m cash (or whatever) and a profit to offset against FFP losses.

I still want him to stay, obviously, I just think it'll be very difficult for him to.

At worst, it now means that Levy returns cap in hand with the going rate or else he looks elsewhere.  At best, Jack stays.

I personally believe that Jack will still go and that his head can't help but have been turned at the prospect of playing for Spurs (and who can blame him?)  However, I don't think that we'll be selling any of our other players now out of a need to.

I wonder whether in hindsight, Bruce played a masterstroke in his interview in Portugal?  Could he have encouraged teams to play the waiting game, knowing that by the end of the window the goalposts would have been moved?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: charleeco7 on July 20, 2018, 04:46:36 PM
What do we know about these pair? Have they got personal wealth or is it all loans?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on July 20, 2018, 04:50:53 PM
What do we know about these pair? Have they got personal wealth or is it all loans?

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on July 20, 2018, 04:53:44 PM
IIRC Man city got done on FFP breaches and were handed 2 punishments. A one man reduction in thier Chumps league squad down to 24 from 25 and a fine of (I think) £50m which they duly paid as let's face it it is only like them buying a squad player.
So if the EFL have approved our new billionaires how much would the fine be and can we not take the fine and pay it?


Eitherway it's a great day. Aston villa will always be wanted
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: purpletrousers on July 20, 2018, 04:54:39 PM
What do we know about these pair? Have they got personal wealth or is it all loans?

Aunty Beeb says:

Aston Villa: Wes Edens & Nassef Sawiris to make 'significant investment' in club
1 hour ago From the sectionAston Villa

Wes Edens and Nassef Sawiris say their initial aim is to "bring sustainable success" to Aston Villa



Billionaire businessmen Wes Edens and Nassef Sawiris will inject "significant investment" into Aston Villa, the Championship club has announced.

Egyptian Sawiris is estimated to be worth $6.8bn (£5.2bn), while American financier Edens co-owns the Milwaukee Bucks NBA franchise.

Villa owner Dr Tony Xia will become co-chairman and remain on the board.

The extent of Villa's financial issues came to light after they missed out on promotion back to the Premier League.

Villa, relegated to the Championship in 2016, lost to Fulham in May's play-off final at Wembley - missing out on a return to the top flight that would have been worth in excess of £160m.

The club missed a £4m tax payment in June, with Xia understood to have cash flow problems because of strict rules about money leaving his native China.

Villa reached an agreement with HM Revenue and Customs over the payment soon afterwards.


With Villa also receiving a reduced parachute payment in 2018-19 and sizeable income required to comply with Financial Fair Play regulations, on-field cutbacks are expected.

Former England captain John Terry was the first player to leave the club following their loss at Wembley, while midfielder Jack Grealish is expected to depart and they have also rejected a £5m bid from Stoke City for centre-back James Chester.

There have been staff departures; chief executive Keith Wyness was suspended and then subsequently left Villa Park, and is suing the club for constructive dismissal, while director of football Steve Round left earlier this month.

'Our priority is to strengthen the squad'

In June, former finance director Mark Ansell said Villa had "gone to the casino, rolled the dice and it hasn't worked" after the club's financial problems came to light.

Villa spent vast sums on player recruitment following Dr Xia's takeover in the summer of 2016 and recorded a loss of £14.5m for the 2016-17 season, after losses of £80.7m during the campaign which saw the club's first relegation in 29 years.

The new investors say they want to help fund Villa's return to the top flight.

"As lifelong football fans, we are excited and privileged to have become part of this great club," Sawiris and Edens said in a joint statement.

"Our goal is to bring sustainable success to the club, building on its rich history while respecting its loyal fan base and unique culture.

"We understand that we are stewards of Aston Villa on behalf of the fans and we take that responsibility seriously.


"We look forward to working with Dr Tony to undertake a thorough assessment and evaluation of the club in the coming weeks and our priority is to strengthen the squads and structures ahead of the upcoming season and beyond."

Earlier this month, Dr Xia has said he would consider a "minority investment" in the club.

"We have a common goal of delivering future success for Aston Villa and I look forward to working together to achieve this aim," said Dr Xia in a club statement, which confirmed the investment deal had been ratified by the English Football League.

"To have come so close to achieving promotion last season was a humbling experience.

"In finding such strong partners as Nassef and Wes we're gearing up to fight again and bring back the success that this club deserves and we all so want to provide it with.

"The future is exciting on a number of fronts and I look forward to exploring further business collaborations."

Who are Villa's new investors?

Forbes estimates Sawiris, 57, to have accrued a fortune of about $6.8bn (£5.2bn) as part of Egypt's wealthiest family - his father and brother are also billionaires.

The London-based businessman runs OCI - one of the world's largest nitrogen fertilizer producers - and Orascom Construction.

After a career in finance, Edens, 56, co-founded private equity firm Fortress Investment Group in 1998.

He sold it in January for $3.3bn to a Japanese firm, reportedly making more than $500m in the process, and bought the Milwaukee Bucks NBA team for $550m in 2014 with fellow businessman Marc Lasry.

'Sighs of relief' for Villa supporters

Analysis: Mark Regan, Aston Villa reporter for BBC WM 95.6

There will be a few sighs of relief among Villa fans after Friday's news. Ever since the full-time whistle blew at Wembley and consigned Villa to another season in the Championship, there seems to have been a steady flow of bad news.

The sudden departures of Wyness and Round, the doubts over player sales, paying tax bills and meeting Financial Fair Play regulations were all issues that were bogging the club down. While this news is not a "cure all" it does, at the very least, mean the club should be a whole lot more stable going forward.

There are still questions over just how much the cash injection is and who will hold ultimate power now that Dr Xia is to be a co-chairman, but overall this will be seen as good news for all concerned with Aston Villa.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mossie Hennebry on July 20, 2018, 04:59:08 PM
I think I'll celebrate with the purchase of the new white away shirt complete with PL badges!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: thick_mike on July 20, 2018, 05:02:56 PM
Trust me, this will be a disaster.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: thick_mike on July 20, 2018, 05:03:26 PM
Trust me, this will be an enormous success.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Holy Trinity on July 20, 2018, 05:05:22 PM
My thoughts exactly
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 20, 2018, 05:06:52 PM
Trust me, this will be a disaster.

Blimey!!!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 20, 2018, 05:09:33 PM
Trust me, this will be a disaster.
Trust me, this will be an enormous success.
I can not decide who to believe from you two🤔
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 20, 2018, 05:11:46 PM
I apologize if this has been answered in detail elsewhere but a friend of mine (United fan, banker) is asking why the new investors/co-owners can't just purchase the debt and start at 0 as far as FFP is concerned. Is there simply a rule in the FFP regulations that forbids this? Does all income have to be generated by sale of assets to factor against FFP losses?

Thanks.

FFP is just to do with income, expenses and losses. Our problems are caused by falling parachute payments and high wages for wasters like Richards.  The only real way out of the problem is to generate profit on player trading, hence the likely sales of Grealish and Chester.

Unless the new owners take a ‘fuck it’ approach to FFP, they’ll still probably have to be sold.
They could negotiate a settlement and pay it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: garyshawsknee on July 20, 2018, 05:14:08 PM
I really hope we get people making football decisions who can see sense and a long term gain. We all raised our eyebrows at the RDM and Round appointments, something tells me that these two chaps have a lot more experience and common sense.....cue the appointment of Big Sam!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: auntiesledd on July 20, 2018, 05:17:48 PM
Serious question: how will we stop irresponsible people at the club going on another player-buying spree to load us up with more ageing players on long-term contracts?

Now that we have arrested the financial problems, I sincerely hope that there will be an injection of intelligence, common sense and some coaching & tactics!

They could get rid of 'em all & bring in some responsible replacements. ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: GarTomas on July 20, 2018, 05:18:30 PM
Trust me, this will be a disaster.
Trust me, this will be an enormous success.
I can not decide who to believe from you two🤔

Well played. You know have 2 legitimate quotes to fall back on when it’s a roaring success or flaming disaster!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on July 20, 2018, 05:19:42 PM
I apologize if this has been answered in detail elsewhere but a friend of mine (United fan, banker) is asking why the new investors/co-owners can't just purchase the debt and start at 0 as far as FFP is concerned. Is there simply a rule in the FFP regulations that forbids this? Does all income have to be generated by sale of assets to factor against FFP losses?

Thanks.

FFP is just to do with income, expenses and losses. Our problems are caused by falling parachute payments and high wages for wasters like Richards.  The only real way out of the problem is to generate profit on player trading, hence the likely sales of Grealish and Chester.

Unless the new owners take a ‘fuck it’ approach to FFP, they’ll still probably have to be sold.
They could negotiate a settlement and pay it.

Barry didn’t take the penalty because under their current FFP rules, depending on how outrageously we flaunt them, they can fine us, deduct points or simply demote is a number of places. Do you want to win the league at a canter and discover we’re suddenly in the Play-offs?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Leicester_Villian on July 20, 2018, 05:20:10 PM
From what I believe there are ways round FFP but we may need to look at these options
They may include stadium naming rights which could generate considerable cash but how would we feel if something prefixed Villa Park?
I cant see Jack not leaving but this deal I think pushes his value up as we are no longer in desperate need of cash
Maybe if we could then raise say 10 million from other sales without losing the main guys that would work
But if we are having a new start then it seems sensible to get a new manager in too
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 20, 2018, 05:22:08 PM
I apologize if this has been answered in detail elsewhere but a friend of mine (United fan, banker) is asking why the new investors/co-owners can't just purchase the debt and start at 0 as far as FFP is concerned. Is there simply a rule in the FFP regulations that forbids this? Does all income have to be generated by sale of assets to factor against FFP losses?

Thanks.

FFP is just to do with income, expenses and losses. Our problems are caused by falling parachute payments and high wages for wasters like Richards.  The only real way out of the problem is to generate profit on player trading, hence the likely sales of Grealish and Chester.

Unless the new owners take a ‘fuck it’ approach to FFP, they’ll still probably have to be sold.
They could negotiate a settlement and pay it.

Barry didn’t take the penalty because under their current FFP rules, depending on how outrageously we flaunt them, they can fine us, deduct points or simply demote is a number of places. Do you want to win the league at a canter and discover we’re suddenly in the Play-offs?
No I said we negotiate a settlement and pay it,
Glad you Find the Barry penalty joke amusing after all these years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: frank black on July 20, 2018, 05:22:43 PM
Trust me, this will be a disaster.

Blimey!!!!

Best get in early, just in case you can say “I told you so!” at some point 😂
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: thick_mike on July 20, 2018, 05:22:54 PM
Trust me, this will be a disaster.
Trust me, this will be an enormous success.
I can not decide who to believe from you two🤔

Well played. You know have 2 legitimate quotes to fall back on when it’s a roaring success or flaming disaster!

You have seen through my plan. One of those posts will mysteriously disappear in the years to come.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Stu on July 20, 2018, 05:31:42 PM
There's some excellent flouncing on the SHA forum.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: manic-road on July 20, 2018, 05:37:21 PM
Reading up on Wes Edens, he has some history of turning around an ailing sports club and turning them into competitors at the top level. Hope he can do the same at the Villa.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on July 20, 2018, 05:41:55 PM
There's some excellent flouncing on the SHA forum.

Bless their cotton socks - They never learn do they?

Imagine how bitter and twisted they'll all be feeling tonight?  8)

This numpty is not far off the mark though to be fair.  I'd imagine he'd be in the top 2% on the "Education Levels Among Blues fans" thread  ;D:

Quote
They're like one of those birthday cake candles that re-light after you've blown them out. Utterly predictable and depressing this news is.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 20, 2018, 05:42:49 PM
There's some excellent flouncing on the SHA forum.

We always come up smelling of roses, jammy bas!*$$ds they are, why can they get investment and not us, we are the Birmingham team, ha ha ohh bless them
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 20, 2018, 05:45:43 PM
Jack and Chester to sign 5 year deals, then the champagne corks start to pop!!!! :)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 20, 2018, 05:47:45 PM
No I said we negotiate a settlement and pay it,


And if it's a points deduction? Or we're denied promotion or a spot in the play-offs?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 20, 2018, 05:48:00 PM
Any chance of our Egyptian connection getting Mo Salah stretching the shirt any time soon?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 20, 2018, 05:57:49 PM
Right assuming this is all as it seems, how do we get round FFP and plough money into the playing squad.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 20, 2018, 05:58:47 PM
No I said we negotiate a settlement and pay it,


And if it's a points deduction? Or we're denied promotion or a spot in the play-offs?
I am pretty sure these people know what they are doing.
There is nothing to stop them discussing the situation now.
If the result of those conversations is a point deduction then we know that they will have to flog the family silver.
I do not believe there has been an FFP points deduction so it would be brave of the league to single us out.
Based on the ( speculative) financial information that is out there, I think it might be impossible to avoid breaching FFP so you could be in the might as well get hung for a sheep as a lamb.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nev on July 20, 2018, 05:59:10 PM
There's some excellent flouncing on the SHA forum.

We always come up smelling of roses, jammy bas!*$$ds they are, why can they get investment and not us, we are the Birmingham team, ha ha ohh bless them

Not jammy, that history they always take the piss out of us is what defines us, what gives us the stature and standing in English football. The sooner they come to terms with this the less it will hurt......
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on July 20, 2018, 05:59:33 PM
If it is £35m for 55% that means it would be cheaper to buy Aston Villa than it was to buy Virgil van Dijk.

But Virgil is unlikely to cost you about 3 times that in the coming years and a shitload of angry Brummies on your case.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 20, 2018, 06:02:30 PM
No I said we negotiate a settlement and pay it,


And if it's a points deduction? Or we're denied promotion or a spot in the play-offs?
I am pretty sure these people know what they are doing.
There is nothing to stop them discussing the situation now.
If the result of those conversations is a point deduction then we know that they will have to flog the family silver.
I do not believe there has been an FFP points deduction so it would be brave of the league to single us out.
Based on the ( speculative) financial information that is out there, I think it might be impossible to avoid breaching FFP so you could be in the might as well get hung for a sheep as a lamb.

That's because, as has been said numerous times before, no one as breached FFP since the rule change. And your last sentence is exactly what will lead to severe punishments.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: achilles on July 20, 2018, 06:02:52 PM
No I said we negotiate a settlement and pay it,




And if it's a points deduction? Or we're denied promotion or a spot in the play-offs?
I am pretty sure these people know what they are doing.
There is nothing to stop them discussing the situation now.
If the result of those conversations is a point deduction then we know that they will have to flog the family silver.
I do not believe there has been an FFP points deduction so it would be brave of the league to single us out.
Based on the ( speculative) financial information that is out there, I think it might be impossible to avoid breaching FFP so you could be in the might as well get hung for a sheep as a lamb.

Yes, I think if we negotiated with the EFL and we presented a plan to reduce costs with the new majority owners then I would think that we would get away with just a fine.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villafirst on July 20, 2018, 06:07:58 PM
The financial disparity between the PL and the Championship is ridiculous! Liverpool paying  £67M for a fucking goalkeeper?? Keep Jack and Chessie at all costs! We're talking wealth of thousands of millions...risk a fine!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 20, 2018, 06:11:31 PM
No I said we negotiate a settlement and pay it,


And if it's a points deduction? Or we're denied promotion or a spot in the play-offs?
I am pretty sure these people know what they are doing.
There is nothing to stop them discussing the situation now.
If the result of those conversations is a point deduction then we know that they will have to flog the family silver.
I do not believe there has been an FFP points deduction so it would be brave of the league to single us out.
Based on the ( speculative) financial information that is out there, I think it might be impossible to avoid breaching FFP so you could be in the might as well get hung for a sheep as a lamb.

That's because, as has been said numerous times before, no one as breached FFP since the rule change. And your last sentence is exactly what will lead to severe punishments.
QPR is still appealing, there are other appeals in Europe.
The problem with a rule change is lack of precedent.
My view is that the new investors would have a strategy concerning the implications of FFP and will be having conversations and making appropriate plans to deal with it.
The fact that there is now real money and by the looks of skilled management, is in my opinion a game changer.
We can but hope.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Comrade Blitz on July 20, 2018, 06:39:48 PM
CAS overturned AC Milan's FFP Europa ban. Villa should appeal as well. Fuck 'em all.

http://www.kickoff.com/news/87791/ac-milans-european-football-ban-ffp-brea



Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Fasth56 on July 20, 2018, 06:43:28 PM
CAS overturned AC Milan's FFP Europa ban. Villa should appeal as well. Fuck 'em all.

http://www.kickoff.com/news/87791/ac-milans-european-football-ban-ffp-brea





I think the important part of the ruling is the "change of ownership" as the club were in a much better position than previously.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on July 20, 2018, 06:49:41 PM
And breathe...hopefully.

Welcome gentlemen, you will never own a better footballing institution.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: yammers on July 20, 2018, 06:55:16 PM
But most important can we possibly tell Levy to fuck off?

I would imagine that he would have to pay top dollar now as we’re no longer in dire straits. I prefer your version of telling him to get fucked though!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Holy Trinity on July 20, 2018, 07:03:36 PM
I actually think I have figured out a away around ffp. I am going to try Nd get my head around it but thinks are making sense in my head
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villadelph on July 20, 2018, 07:09:43 PM
Wesley R. Edens is a Founder and Co-Chairman of the Board of Directors of Fortress Investment Group LLC. Fortress was founded in 1998 and is a $62 billion alternative asset management company with headquarters in New York and offices around the world.

Nassef has a net wealth of $6.6bn and is the richest Egyptian in the world.

I have a hunch we're gonna be alright.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on July 20, 2018, 07:09:47 PM
That didn’t take long

https://www.avfc.co.uk/club/whos-who
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Holy Trinity on July 20, 2018, 07:16:16 PM
This must have been in the pipeline for weeks!

I want a new head coach. A new youth team coach both playing the exact same style with The exact same philosophy so players from the kid through to the first team play exactly the same way! Including formation. I also likr the thought that should the manager leave the youth team manager coukd step in and in turn be replaced as the youth team manager. Constant plan in place from the bottom up with 1 philosophy and 1 direction clearly laid out by the owners.

This could become a reality and I hope it does
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on July 20, 2018, 07:19:21 PM
From the owner of a basketball team to the owner of a basket case football club.  I'm really, really hoping we've got it right this time.  Anyway, here's to a great season for us all.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on July 20, 2018, 07:25:48 PM
Serious question: how will we stop irresponsible people at the club going on another player-buying spree to load us up with more ageing players on long-term contracts?

Now that we have arrested the financial problems, I sincerely hope that there will be an injection of intelligence, common sense and some coaching & tactics!

They could get rid of 'em all & bring in some responsible replacements. ;)
That was really the point.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on July 20, 2018, 07:28:56 PM
No I said we negotiate a settlement and pay it,


And if it's a points deduction? Or we're denied promotion or a spot in the play-offs?
I am pretty sure these people know what they are doing.
There is nothing to stop them discussing the situation now.
If the result of those conversations is a point deduction then we know that they will have to flog the family silver.
I do not believe there has been an FFP points deduction so it would be brave of the league to single us out.
Based on the ( speculative) financial information that is out there, I think it might be impossible to avoid breaching FFP so you could be in the might as well get hung for a sheep as a lamb.
Pretty brave (in bold) after all that we’ve seeen from Lerner and Xia.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 20, 2018, 07:30:03 PM
Very excited by this and surely two billionaires are better than one!

The Sawiris are the richest family in Egypt despite being from the minority (and oft discriminated against) Coptic community. Must be savvy business people.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Confusious says on July 20, 2018, 07:31:19 PM
This must have been in the pipeline for weeks!

I want a new head coach. A new youth team coach both playing the exact same style with The exact same philosophy so players from the kid through to the first team play exactly the same way! Including formation. I also likr the thought that should the manager leave the youth team manager coukd step in and in turn be replaced as the youth team manager. Constant plan in place from the bottom up with 1 philosophy and 1 direction clearly laid out by the owners.

This could become a reality and I hope it does





The thing of consistency you are asking for sounds like the Villa Engine!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Laughing Policeman on July 20, 2018, 07:32:14 PM
Be interesting to see who they appoint as CEO. We haven't had much luck in that department for a few years now.
Hopefully they get someone in who knows how to run a football club on a daily basis.
I also reckon that the Doctor wont be around for more than a few more months. I think his co-chairmanship is just a way of helping him save face and as soon as is decently possible the new guys will buy him out.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on July 20, 2018, 07:33:22 PM
Good to see you again TLP.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: David_Nab on July 20, 2018, 07:34:55 PM
CAS overturned AC Milan's FFP Europa ban. Villa should appeal as well. Fuck 'em all.

http://www.kickoff.com/news/87791/ac-milans-european-football-ban-ffp-brea





Different rules , however the crux of Milans case was going forward under new ownership they could pay there way ...as can we now
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 20, 2018, 07:35:38 PM
Back to the noses the depression over there is wonderful. From us being skint and on the verge of turning off lights we end up with not one, but two legitimate billionaires.

It ain’t fair Tom
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: A Northern Soul on July 20, 2018, 07:36:03 PM
I am absolutely thrilled by this. Have high hopes and a naive dream we can still find a way round FFP and keeping JG & JC. My only balancing comment would be this I discovered from the Cairo Post in 2014. May not mean anything other than a business liability pushed to the limit, no idea if or how it was resolved:

CAIRO: Egyptian billionaire businessman Nassef Onsi Sawiris was handed a primary judicial ruling to a three-year sentence and a fine of 50 million EGP (US $6.99 million) for refraining from paying checks to the Egyptian Tax Authority, Al-Ahram quoted Reuters.

Sawiris, the CEO of Orascom Construction Industries Company, is the youngest brother to the two famous tycoons; Naguib and Samih.

Al-Ahram reported that Orascom Company reached a deal with the Egyptian Tax Authority to settle a tax dispute, where the agreement then stipulated that the company pays 7.1 billion EGP in installments.

Although Orascom had already paid two batches worth 2.5 Billion EGP, it didn’t pay the rest of the scheduled installments since the ouster of former President Mohamed Morsi in July 3, 2013.

Nassef Sawiris was ranked the 183th richest person in the world and fourth in Africa in 2014, his net worth was estimated by Forbes to be $7.3 billion.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Man With A Stick on July 20, 2018, 07:36:58 PM
Seeing one of them owns a basketball team, isn't there a lanky streak of piss in the youth team we could sell to them for £40m?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2018, 07:44:19 PM
I am absolutely thrilled by this. Have high hopes and a naive dream we can still find a way round FFP and keeping JG & JC. My only balancing comment would be this I discovered from the Cairo Post in 2014. May not mean anything other than a business liability pushed to the limit, no idea if or how it was resolved:

CAIRO: Egyptian billionaire businessman Nassef Onsi Sawiris was handed a primary judicial ruling to a three-year sentence and a fine of 50 million EGP (US $6.99 million) for refraining from paying checks to the Egyptian Tax Authority, Al-Ahram quoted Reuters.

Sawiris, the CEO of Orascom Construction Industries Company, is the youngest brother to the two famous tycoons; Naguib and Samih.

Al-Ahram reported that Orascom Company reached a deal with the Egyptian Tax Authority to settle a tax dispute, where the agreement then stipulated that the company pays 7.1 billion EGP in installments.

Although Orascom had already paid two batches worth 2.5 Billion EGP, it didn’t pay the rest of the scheduled installments since the ouster of former President Mohamed Morsi in July 3, 2013.

Nassef Sawiris was ranked the 183th richest person in the world and fourth in Africa in 2014, his net worth was estimated by Forbes to be $7.3 billion.

Someone linked a bloomberg profile earlier and on the bottom of that it makes reference to this so I had a little bit of a dig around and it appears this was overturned on appeal - http://www.oci.nl/investor-relations/news/2014/11/04/oci-wins-tax-case-egypt/
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: A Northern Soul on July 20, 2018, 07:47:23 PM
I am absolutely thrilled by this. Have high hopes and a naive dream we can still find a way round FFP and keeping JG & JC. My only balancing comment would be this I discovered from the Cairo Post in 2014. May not mean anything other than a business liability pushed to the limit, no idea if or how it was resolved:

CAIRO: Egyptian billionaire businessman Nassef Onsi Sawiris was handed a primary judicial ruling to a three-year sentence and a fine of 50 million EGP (US $6.99 million) for refraining from paying checks to the Egyptian Tax Authority, Al-Ahram quoted Reuters.

Sawiris, the CEO of Orascom Construction Industries Company, is the youngest brother to the two famous tycoons; Naguib and Samih.

Al-Ahram reported that Orascom Company reached a deal with the Egyptian Tax Authority to settle a tax dispute, where the agreement then stipulated that the company pays 7.1 billion EGP in installments.

Although Orascom had already paid two batches worth 2.5 Billion EGP, it didn’t pay the rest of the scheduled installments since the ouster of former President Mohamed Morsi in July 3, 2013.

Nassef Sawiris was ranked the 183th richest person in the world and fourth in Africa in 2014, his net worth was estimated by Forbes to be $7.3 billion.

Someone linked a bloomberg profile earlier and on the bottom of that it makes reference to this so I had a little bit of a dig around and it appears this was overturned on appeal - http://www.oci.nl/investor-relations/news/2014/11/04/oci-wins-tax-case-egypt/

That reads a lot more positively 👍😇
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 20, 2018, 07:49:55 PM
Welcome.
Question number 1. Is there anyway a solution can be found that prevents us selling our best players?

Not Jack, no. But we don't have to cull the rest.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on July 20, 2018, 08:00:06 PM
Board Members

Executive Chairman   Nassef Sawiris
Co-Chairman   Wes Edens
Co-Chairman
Dr Tony Xia
Advisor to the Board
Brian Little

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 20, 2018, 08:00:34 PM
This can only be good news.

However let's hope these guys ideas for moving forward revolve around more than just spending 40-50m on 29 year olds next summer.

Hopefully they can look at a club like Southampton and how they were rebuilt from on their knees to a relatively stable premier league club that promotes youth and scouts well.

I guess we can spend a bit in January now?

Don't know if the new owners rate Steve Bruce or not but would imagine his brief will be to keep us competitive in the top half up to January and then we'll strengthen in that window with SB or another manager.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 20, 2018, 08:02:19 PM
Welcome.
Question number 1. Is there anyway a solution can be found that prevents us selling our best players?

Not Jack, no. But we don't have to cull the rest.
What about Bruce Chelts?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Laughing Policeman on July 20, 2018, 08:03:31 PM
Some one a couple of pages back mentioned selling the stadium naming rights as a way of helping us out with FFP.
I could live with that as long as it's a company with strong local ties and a few million quid to spend.
Jaguar Land Rover Villa Park anyone?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on July 20, 2018, 08:07:15 PM
That didn’t take long

https://www.avfc.co.uk/club/whos-who
No Ho ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 20, 2018, 08:08:47 PM
Welcome.
Question number 1. Is there anyway a solution can be found that prevents us selling our best players?

Not Jack, no. But we don't have to cull the rest.
What about Bruce Chelts?


No intent to change the manager.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 20, 2018, 08:09:33 PM
Welcome.
Question number 1. Is there anyway a solution can be found that prevents us selling our best players?

Not Jack, no. But we don't have to cull the rest.
What about Bruce Chelts?


No intent to change the manager.

They can feck right orf then.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Holy Trinity on July 20, 2018, 08:10:48 PM
Oh ffs here we go again!

Someone take this dinosaur off our hands
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 20, 2018, 08:12:52 PM
I can honestly see it SB keeping us 8-10th up to xmas and then new guys will bring in their new manager around that time.

Guess they've looked at it now as too close to the season to make a change which is a view I wouldn't disagree with.

 There will be a new manager eventually as that's what happens with 95% of new owners, they want their own man in. Just need to get the time right.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: oldtimernow on July 20, 2018, 08:18:40 PM
I would imagine they have put a downpayment, at a discount, into the club to stabilise it , take a good look at what they have bought into over the coming months and take it from there, paying off Dr Tony when they decide that it's a goer.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 20, 2018, 08:19:12 PM
IIRC Man city got done on FFP breaches and were handed 2 punishments. A one man reduction in thier Chumps league squad down to 24 from 25 and a fine of (I think) £50m which they duly paid as let's face it it is only like them buying a squad player.
So if the EFL have approved our new billionaires how much would the fine be and can we not take the fine and pay it?


Eitherway it's a great day. Aston villa will always be wanted

Can't really compare us to Man. City anymore I'm afraid.

In last two years Forest, Bolton and Blackburn all went over FFP and they were all given transfer embargos for periods of time so were reduced to signing out of contract players.

SHA currently also have transfer restrictions as they couldn't register their new signing last week.

Now we have fresh capital the last thing we need is ignoring this and being banned from transfers in January when we might be in o.k position to challenge for top 6.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Matt Collins on July 20, 2018, 08:21:20 PM
This must have been in the pipeline for weeks!

I want a new head coach. A new youth team coach both playing the exact same style with The exact same philosophy so players from the kid through to the first team play exactly the same way! Including formation. I also likr the thought that should the manager leave the youth team manager coukd step in and in turn be replaced as the youth team manager. Constant plan in place from the bottom up with 1 philosophy and 1 direction clearly laid out by the owners.

This could become a reality and I hope it does

I agree

Just not sure trying to sort that two weeks before the season starts is sensible

For me the plan this year remains stabilisation and blood the kids

Then next year ffp will be much easier and we can implement a proper plan, with a clear vision

If the right manager lands in our lap in the meantime id take it but they'll be in short supply
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: four fornicholl on July 20, 2018, 08:24:03 PM
This must have been in the pipeline for weeks!

I want a new head coach. A new youth team coach both playing the exact same style with The exact same philosophy so players from the kid through to the first team play exactly the same way! Including formation. I also likr the thought that should the manager leave the youth team manager coukd step in and in turn be replaced as the youth team manager. Constant plan in place from the bottom up with 1 philosophy and 1 direction clearly laid out by the owners.

This could become a reality and I hope it does

I agree

Just not sure trying to sort that two weeks before the season starts is sensible

For me the plan this year remains stabilisation and blood the kids

Then next year ffp will be much easier and we can implement a proper plan, with a clear vision

If the right manager lands in our lap in the meantime id take it but they'll be in short supply
Hopefully with Jack on board :-\
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 20, 2018, 08:24:26 PM
Reading up on Wes Edens, he has some history of turning around an ailing sports club and turning them into competitors at the top level. Hope he can do the same at the Villa.

Most pleasing thing for me is one of the guys at least has good experience of running a sports team.

According to the website though looks like Nas is the main man.

My one word of caution would be we have two new figureheads wanting to make decisions and also Xia still lurking around like a sulking kid so let's hope we can get agreement on the major decisions.

I still remember all the chaos Hicks and Gillett caused at Liverpool by not even speaking to each other at the end so whole club was in limbo.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mrfuse on July 20, 2018, 08:26:16 PM
Some one a couple of pages back mentioned selling the stadium naming rights as a way of helping us out with FFP.
I could live with that as long as it's a company with strong local ties and a few million quid to spend.
Jaguar Land Rover Villa Park anyone?

Its something that could be looked at but deals like that must represent fair market value.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: BoVillan esq on July 20, 2018, 08:28:23 PM
Any chance of our Egyptian connection getting Mo Salah stretching the shirt any time soon?

Exactly, why mess around, start as you mean to carry on.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: davidb on July 20, 2018, 08:35:53 PM
Been 5 hours and no new signing. Sack the board. Get someone else in.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SamTheMouse on July 20, 2018, 08:38:54 PM
The most encouraging thing about all this is that the new people in charge are known quantities, in that we know who they are and where their wealth comes from.

No more tenebrous hairdresser wannabes. These guys would appear to be the real deal, and it's hard to argue with their CVs.

Hopefully they'll eschew short cuts, and start laying the groundwork for a joined-up, long-term project. Even if that means accepting a couple more seasons in the Championship.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on July 20, 2018, 08:44:08 PM
Very excited by this and surely two billionaires are better than one!


Here's the thing, if Tony is sticking around (and, who knows, maybe he is) he is another potential source of finance in the medium to long term.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 20, 2018, 08:54:35 PM
Any chance of our Egyptian connection getting Mo Salah stretching the shirt any time soon?

Exactly, why mess around, start as you mean to carry on.

New mascot is a camel. Eating a chilli dog.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Laughing Policeman on July 20, 2018, 08:57:34 PM
Some interesting stuff about our new major share holders on the club site. It appears that Nassef Sawiris has some serious connections in the sports world.
https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2018/07/20/five-things-to-know-about-our-new-investors
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Deano's Mullet on July 20, 2018, 08:57:57 PM
Life suddenly seems a bit rosier tonight!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: frankmosswasmyuncle on July 20, 2018, 09:23:14 PM
I might sleep tonight now....and dream of beating Burton tomorrow. Onwards and upwards! UTV!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 20, 2018, 10:04:41 PM
Wish you had not used the D word FMWMU.  Now I shall worry that I am dreaming all this.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Tone74 on July 20, 2018, 10:06:56 PM
I know I shouldn't laugh...bigger fish and all that but SHA is beautiful at the moment......the bitter are getting twisted....full meltdown....he who laughs last!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 20, 2018, 10:18:05 PM
Just for a little bit of context there's an Egyptian who posts on another football forum I'm on.

This is his succinct view of Sawiris.

Quote
Sawiris family is hated here, especially his brother, Nagiub Sawiris.

But that's not due to hating issues. Egyptian businessmen aren't going to get a club and spend on it for the sake of it like Qatar or UA. These clubs are just another business and source of money for them. I'll be surprised if he ends up actually willing to make the club good enough.

He also mentioned Al Fayed and that mad owner at Hull as examples.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Matt Collins on July 20, 2018, 10:26:31 PM
Well they both got their clubs promoted!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 20, 2018, 10:30:28 PM
Well that makes sense, but we need to be a good football team to make money.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on July 20, 2018, 10:31:19 PM
Well they both got their clubs promoted!

Plus nobody is expecting him to spend "for the sake of it"
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: auntiesledd on July 20, 2018, 10:43:50 PM
Serious question: how will we stop irresponsible people at the club going on another player-buying spree to load us up with more ageing players on long-term contracts?

Now that we have arrested the financial problems, I sincerely hope that there will be an injection of intelligence, common sense and some coaching & tactics!

They could get rid of 'em all & bring in some responsible replacements. ;)
That was really the point.

D'oh!

I clearly should've stuck to crap Egyptian puns. :-[

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 20, 2018, 10:48:56 PM
If they're a source of money, they must make money. If we're making money, we're in the Premier League.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: MorrisNielson on July 20, 2018, 10:50:16 PM
New money coming into club can only be good news.

Just a thought, didn't Tone state that he had converted some debt into equity.
So would this debt be sucked up with these new chaps coming in, thus improving our book keeping?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on July 20, 2018, 11:11:33 PM
So our new invester made his money from fertilizer... Something to remember should it all go to shit.

I sell fertiliser in Egypt too, not quite as much evidently!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Stu on July 20, 2018, 11:47:12 PM
I am absolutely thrilled by this. Have high hopes and a naive dream we can still find a way round FFP and keeping JG & JC. My only balancing comment would be this I discovered from the Cairo Post in 2014. May not mean anything other than a business liability pushed to the limit, no idea if or how it was resolved:

CAIRO: Egyptian billionaire businessman Nassef Onsi Sawiris was handed a primary judicial ruling to a three-year sentence and a fine of 50 million EGP (US $6.99 million) for refraining from paying checks to the Egyptian Tax Authority, Al-Ahram quoted Reuters.

Sawiris, the CEO of Orascom Construction Industries Company, is the youngest brother to the two famous tycoons; Naguib and Samih.

Al-Ahram reported that Orascom Company reached a deal with the Egyptian Tax Authority to settle a tax dispute, where the agreement then stipulated that the company pays 7.1 billion EGP in installments.

Although Orascom had already paid two batches worth 2.5 Billion EGP, it didn’t pay the rest of the scheduled installments since the ouster of former President Mohamed Morsi in July 3, 2013.

Nassef Sawiris was ranked the 183th richest person in the world and fourth in Africa in 2014, his net worth was estimated by Forbes to be $7.3 billion.

If you want to know what's going on down the Villa, ask a bluenose.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: A Northern Soul on July 20, 2018, 11:53:17 PM
I am absolutely thrilled by this. Have high hopes and a naive dream we can still find a way round FFP and keeping JG & JC. My only balancing comment would be this I discovered from the Cairo Post in 2014. May not mean anything other than a business liability pushed to the limit, no idea if or how it was resolved:

CAIRO: Egyptian billionaire businessman Nassef Onsi Sawiris was handed a primary judicial ruling to a three-year sentence and a fine of 50 million EGP (US $6.99 million) for refraining from paying checks to the Egyptian Tax Authority, Al-Ahram quoted Reuters.

Sawiris, the CEO of Orascom Construction Industries Company, is the youngest brother to the two famous tycoons; Naguib and Samih.

Al-Ahram reported that Orascom Company reached a deal with the Egyptian Tax Authority to settle a tax dispute, where the agreement then stipulated that the company pays 7.1 billion EGP in installments.

Although Orascom had already paid two batches worth 2.5 Billion EGP, it didn’t pay the rest of the scheduled installments since the ouster of former President Mohamed Morsi in July 3, 2013.

Nassef Sawiris was ranked the 183th richest person in the world and fourth in Africa in 2014, his net worth was estimated by Forbes to be $7.3 billion.

If you want to know what's going on down the Villa, ask a bluenose.

You talking about me?! Read my post history over x years - don’t post often but always through claret & blue eyes - very disappointed with that reaction. Was simply sharing what I had seen. If you bothered to look beyond that post you will see I then responded with relief when there was a subsequent report posted that showed the ruling had been overturned 😡
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Legion on July 20, 2018, 11:54:32 PM
I don't think he was referring to you.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: A Northern Soul on July 21, 2018, 12:03:14 AM
I don't think he was referring to you.

Hope not. Been quite a day and didn’t want it ended by becoming a Nose 😊
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on July 21, 2018, 01:16:39 AM
I don't think he was referring to you.

Hope not. Been quite a day and didn’t want it ended by becoming a Nose 😊

No, it's just a general rule of thumb.

On a side notr, I was working again yesterday with my little bluenose mate who has loved the last couple of months, but believes every bit of transfer tatyle.

'Have you seen your new transfer"

"No, whos that

"Embargo"
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 21, 2018, 07:00:48 AM
Nerd alert.

The new owners are already identified by the letters NSWE.  As you walk up Trinity Road look up at the spire of Holy Trinity church.  A cock of the walk on the very top surmounting the letters NSWE.

It has to be an omen.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dorsetvillian on July 21, 2018, 07:04:57 AM
They do look like the real deal and have experience in all areas we need. How they deal with FFP will be interesting. The season may still be a struggle but at least we can look forward rather than worrying about the very existence of the club.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on July 21, 2018, 07:35:13 AM
So regarding ffp can we just rename the stadium? At this point im not bothered. I'll always call it Villa park
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: MalcolmP on July 21, 2018, 08:15:29 AM
.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: MalcolmP on July 21, 2018, 08:19:22 AM
This must have been in the pipeline for weeks!

I want a new head coach. A new youth team coach both playing the exact same style with The exact same philosophy so players from the kid through to the first team play exactly the same way! Including formation. I also likr the thought that should the manager leave the youth team manager coukd step in and in turn be replaced as the youth team manager. Constant plan in place from the bottom up with 1 philosophy and 1 direction clearly laid out by the owners.

This could become a reality and I hope it does
Gareth Southgate for new head coach?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on July 21, 2018, 08:34:45 AM
Well the new owners have Howard Hodgson’s blessing, so it must be a good thing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 21, 2018, 08:37:21 AM
So regarding ffp can we just rename the stadium? At this point im not bothered. I'll always call it Villa park

Yes we could, but it would have to be at a market rate. What that is, is clearly subjective. But given Villa Park is a lot football fans favourite ground, is the best traditional football stadia in English football, has been sporting Villa Park since 1897 etc etc, it's less likely that a complete name change would be of significant value. Something at Villa Park may have more value; "ADIDAS at Villa Park" but we are probably talking £3m maximum.

In our favour is that we're the most media exposed club in our league, which has a significant emerging market in China.

But the Etihad deal was cart before the horse. Man City could certainly dictate the cost of sponsorship now, but the market value test is designed to avoid a leg up.

That said, look at the vast array of sponsorship and commercial relations that the Champions League clubs have.

There's nothing to stop us having an official fertilizer partnership or the such like.

The fact is we need to increase commercial revenue and that's sponsorship and also bums on seats. We'd be £7m better off a season if we could get more folk off their backside and filling B6.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rico on July 21, 2018, 08:39:24 AM
Regarding FFP, could the owners not set up a feeder club, let's call it Bodymoor Heath Villa FC, and enter it in some obscure league somewhere. Then, all future signings are made by the feeder club and immediately loaned out to AVFC. We could then sell Grealish, Chester and Kodjia to feeder club for an incredibly large fee and then immediately loan them back. All FFP debt instantly gone. The other part of this is even better - we could transfer McCormack and Richards to feeder club and get some money for them too. Winner!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on July 21, 2018, 08:43:54 AM
I’d rather start by buying Small Heath, closing it down and using it for car boot sales.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on July 21, 2018, 08:48:18 AM
A very cautious welcome for me. Seen too many AVFC owners turn out as bad or worse as the old one to be that enthusiastic.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Laughing Policeman on July 21, 2018, 08:48:33 AM
Well it didn't take long for the new manager rumours to start.
According to the Heil sources say Bruce is on his way on the other hand sources say he's staying.
Daily Heil (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5976079/Thierry-Henry-shortlist-bosses-Aston-Villa-managers-job-Steve-Bruce-leave.html)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on July 21, 2018, 08:56:34 AM
Just paper crap i reckon. I'd be worried if we seriously went for Henry. We haven't got the support set-up at the club to take on someone inexperienced like him. We need a guy who can run the club top to bottom in his own image at least at this level.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 21, 2018, 08:58:08 AM
A person who understands football administration is a key appointment.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Laughing Policeman on July 21, 2018, 09:04:44 AM
You're right, we haven't done too well in our CEO appointments for years. Someone in the Steve Stride mold would be good.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on July 21, 2018, 09:07:51 AM
Welcome to Sawiris and Edens. Hopefully they will play their part in removing some of the dross at VP (new broom and all that). 
A long way to go yet, but the cream that is Aston Villa will rise to the top again, much to the annoyance of our bitter and scum neighbours.
UTV! VTID!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: tomd2103 on July 21, 2018, 09:53:54 AM
A person who understands football administration is a key appointment.

We will have to see what happens, but I also hope for some appointments who will put in place a structure to take the club forward, preferably built around the development and promotion of young players.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 21, 2018, 09:53:58 AM
You're right, we haven't done too well in our CEO appointments for years. Someone in the Steve Stride mold would be good.
Agreed , or someone like David Dein
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: purpletrousers on July 21, 2018, 10:01:24 AM
Regarding FFP, could the owners not set up a feeder club, let's call it Bodymoor Heath Villa FC, and enter it in some obscure league somewhere. Then, all future signings are made by the feeder club and immediately loaned out to AVFC. We could then sell Grealish, Chester and Kodjia to feeder club for an incredibly large fee and then immediately loan them back. All FFP debt instantly gone. The other part of this is even better - we could transfer McCormack and Richards to feeder club and get some money for them too. Winner!

No.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: auntiesledd on July 21, 2018, 10:17:00 AM
Nerd alert.

The new owners are already identified by the letters NSWE.  As you walk up Trinity Road look up at the spire of Holy Trinity church.  A cock of the walk on the very top surmounting the letters NSWE.

It has to be an omen.

Praise be: it's a sign!

ps I hope you'll be out & about today collecting shoes, Brian. You KNOW it makes sense. ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 21, 2018, 10:34:41 AM
Nerd a
The new owners are already identified by the letters NSWE.  As you walk up Trinity Road look up at the spire of Holy Trinity church.  A cock of the walk on the very top surmounting the letters NSWE.

It has to be an omen.

Praise be: it's a sign!

ps I hope you'll be out & about today collecting shoes, Brian. You KNOW it makes sense. ;)
Lets hope it's not all in vane :) ( I know the spelling is different but a pun is a pun!)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: auntiesledd on July 21, 2018, 10:40:56 AM
Nerd a
The new owners are already identified by the letters NSWE.  As you walk up Trinity Road look up at the spire of Holy Trinity church.  A cock of the walk on the very top surmounting the letters NSWE.

It has to be an omen.

Praise be: it's a sign!

ps I hope you'll be out & about today collecting shoes, Brian. You KNOW it makes sense. ;)
Lets hope it's not all in vane :) ( I know the spelling is different but a pun is a pun!)

Good work, Sir. I can see this thread is now heading in the right direction.  8)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 21, 2018, 10:40:57 AM
Would like that Italian guy who was at Southampton a few years back, Nicola something. Anyway he made a very brave call to sack Adkins when they weren't even in the bottom 3 and got in some unknown called Pochettino.

Seems a pretty ruthless operator which isn't a bad thing although don't know if he's been involved in football since.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on July 21, 2018, 10:46:25 AM
Cortese, I think?

It's not fair on Blose - how come we always seem to get big investment from somewhere at the 11th hour? Just doesn't seem right - they even carry the name of the city, unlike crappy little Aston.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 21, 2018, 10:53:16 AM
Edit: Quoting the Sun is not a good move!

Anyway yeah it's Nicola Cortese and there's some good interviews on him. Dosen't seem like he's been involved in football since January 2014 when he left.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on July 21, 2018, 11:16:52 AM
Just reading this now- is this all a dream ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Fred Crump on July 21, 2018, 11:22:46 AM
Nerd a
The new owners are already identified by the letters NSWE.  As you walk up Trinity Road look up at the spire of Holy Trinity church.  A cock of the walk on the very top surmounting the letters NSWE.

It has to be an omen.

Praise be: it's a sign!

ps I hope you'll be out & about today collecting shoes, Brian. You KNOW it makes sense. ;)
Lets hope it's not all in vane :) ( I know the spelling is different but a pun is a pun!)

Good work, Sir. I can see this thread is now heading in the right direction.  8)
Honestly, some of you just go whichever way the wind is blowing
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: oldtimernow on July 21, 2018, 11:32:50 AM
And we won't be in need of any pointers in the team either
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on July 21, 2018, 11:37:08 AM
One of the by products of this latest ‘investment’ HAS to be a massive lift it will have given to the club and hopefully the players.

The turmoil of the last couple of months must have had an impact on the daily goings on at the club, you only have to look at the doom and gloom amongst fans to see how devastating the whole financial situation has been.

But, a gigantic millstone has now been lifted from the club.

I hope that now the players take this new positivity into the new season, knowing that the good times really could be just around the corner.

They have all to play for, with no distractions.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on July 21, 2018, 12:33:36 PM
Just reading this now- is this all a dream ?
Nope. All our troubles appear to be over. 😀
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on July 21, 2018, 12:48:04 PM
do people on here think it's just a face saving deal for dr Tony and he will gradually be moved out in some sort of dignified manner with the two main boys taking over completely in time

it comes over that way to me at the moment but I'm not sure I'm right
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 21, 2018, 12:51:35 PM
Too Big To Fail.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on July 21, 2018, 01:06:07 PM
do people on here think it's just a face saving deal for dr Tony and he will gradually be moved out in some sort of dignified manner with the two main boys taking over completely in time

it comes over that way to me at the moment but I'm not sure I'm right

Everything points to that - From Wyness's drunken tweet to the reports in the mail.

A complete takeover probably takes months, not weeks so given the crisis point that the club were at, the only feasible way to get new investment in, in time would have been what we've seen, ie a majority shareholding now and full takeover at some point in the future (most likely within the next 12 months).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on July 21, 2018, 01:37:28 PM
do people on here think it's just a face saving deal for dr Tony and he will gradually be moved out in some sort of dignified manner with the two main boys taking over completely in time

it comes over that way to me at the moment but I'm not sure I'm right

Everything points to that - From Wyness's drunken tweet to the reports in the mail.

A complete takeover probably takes months, not weeks so given the crisis point that the club were at, the only feasible way to get new investment in, in time would have been what we've seen, ie a majority shareholding now and full takeover at some point in the future (most likely within the next 12 months).

I hope not.  For all the mistakes Xia has made over the past twenty-four months I still feel he could have much to offer the new boardroom in terms of his enthusiasm and energy.  Looking into the businesses of the two new guys, there is much overlap in terms of the industries in which all three operate so it wouldn't surprise me if Tony sticks around as a junior partner in the ownership group.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 21, 2018, 01:44:17 PM
What hasn’t been spoken about is that as much as Xia has a lot to do with the financial problems his business connections may very well have helped save the club. We’ve all seen him presenting at conferences or networking in various parts of the world. Billionaires like these two don’t appear on everyone’s contact list so whatever role Xia played in getting these two in he should be commended for doing so.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Deano's Mullet on July 21, 2018, 01:58:08 PM
Booked my ticket for Wigan. Bring it on! UTV
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 21, 2018, 02:10:48 PM
It is only intuition but I can see Tony Xia contributing to our rise in the medium term. The business community in China is hunkering down for a trade war with Trump.  The trap door that was the play off final could not have occurred at a worse time for Xia.  I think he has ridden out the worst of the financial firestorm competently.  I judge that his financial circumstances will improve and permit him to involve himself with Villa, for whom I believe he has genuine attachment.

My view is that the debacle of Trump in Europe, Trump and NATO, Trump in Helsinki puts him on the brink of impeachment.  The spectre of a trade war will subside allowing Tony Xia and entrepreurs like him to return to a more favourable commercial climate.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 21, 2018, 02:12:56 PM
There's no way a Republican-dominated Congress will vote to impeach a Republican President.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 21, 2018, 03:08:13 PM
There's no way a Republican-dominated Congress will vote to impeach a Republican President.

Bring on the mid-terms.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 21, 2018, 03:17:50 PM
The baddies will win. That's what happens in elections.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: old man villa fan on July 21, 2018, 04:35:26 PM
CAS overturned AC Milan's FFP Europa ban. Villa should appeal as well. Fuck 'em all.

http://www.kickoff.com/news/87791/ac-milans-european-football-ban-ffp-brea





Different rules , however the crux of Milans case was going forward under new ownership they could pay there way ...as can we now

I think the crux of it was the punishment didn't fit the crime.

In the case of points deduction in the EFL, unless a number of points is specified in advance with a sliding scale based on extent of failing FFP, I do not believe it would be enforceable in the eyes of the law. If it was open-ended and the EFL gave, say, a 10 point deduction to prevent a club being promoted, the club would immediately go to court for an injunction pending the result of a court case challenging it. The grounds for the injunction would be on the basis of the EFL not being able to put right after the event if they lost in court. Could you imagine if an injunction was given and promotion/relegation being held up. The leagues/divisions would come to a standstill. This is why I do not believe FFP failure will result in meaningful points deduction, only finance related or transfer embargoes. It will be different if they actually set the punishment in advance (which, by the way, I think they should bring in).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on July 21, 2018, 04:54:15 PM
My view is that Dr Tony has a price he would sell for and these guys will pay it once they are backbone premier. The deal is part ownership now and buy at agreed price once there.
DRTony gets his money back and does not lose face in China (this is of critical importance in the Chinese business world) once there they I am sure have thier own plans
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: oldtimernow on July 21, 2018, 05:10:45 PM
There's no way a Republican-dominated Congress will vote to impeach a Republican President.

Bring on the mid-terms.

Russians are already fiddling with the election apparently
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 21, 2018, 06:22:31 PM
Amusing reaction on that lot.com

Quote
lentini2001
If blues fell into a bucket of tits they would come out sucking a thumb.

Whereas that lot would fall off the roof of Rackham's and land in a suit
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 21, 2018, 06:29:15 PM
Amusing reaction on that lot.com

Quote
lentini2001
If blues fell into a bucket of tits they would come out sucking a thumb.

Whereas that lot would fall off the roof of Rackham's and land in a suit
was that a "suit or a slut"?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on July 21, 2018, 07:02:17 PM
Amusing reaction on that lot.com

Quote
lentini2001
If blues fell into a bucket of tits they would come out sucking a thumb.

Whereas that lot would fall off the roof of Rackham's and land in a suit
was that a "suit or a slut"?

 :D

That's the dark web for you!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: jwarry on July 21, 2018, 07:05:53 PM
Amusing reaction on that lot.com

Quote
lentini2001
If blues fell into a bucket of tits they would come out sucking a thumb.

Whereas that lot would fall off the roof of Rackham's and land in a suit
was that a "suit or a slut"?

Must be an old blue nose as I remember my Nan saying that!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 21, 2018, 07:10:56 PM
Your Nan would have said Lewis's not Rackhams.  Respect.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 21, 2018, 07:49:08 PM
Your Nan would have said Lewis's not Rackhams.  Respect.
My nan would have referred to the back of Rackhams and included "fur coat and no knickers" in the same sentence- just what went on in St Phillips Square doesn't bear thinking about :)
I recall when I lived in Brum - a woman had her hair done in Rackhams and then attempted suicide immediately after by jumping out of the window - unfortunately she landed on a poor soul walking beneath and killed him/her instead - 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: usav on July 21, 2018, 08:32:13 PM
Amusing reaction on that lot.com

Quote
lentini2001
If blues fell into a bucket of tits they would come out sucking a thumb.

Whereas that lot would fall off the roof of Rackham's and land in a suit
was that a "suit or a slut"?

Must be an old blue nose as I remember my Nan saying that!

My mom said it as well, except it was “feather bed” not suit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on July 21, 2018, 08:33:51 PM
Amusing reaction on that lot.com

Quote
lentini2001
If blues fell into a bucket of tits they would come out sucking a thumb.

Whereas that lot would fall off the roof of Rackham's and land in a suit
was that a "suit or a slut"?
That made me chuckle
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: nodge on July 21, 2018, 08:56:02 PM
Your Nan would have said Lewis's not Rackhams.  Respect.
My nan would have referred to the back of Rackhams and included "fur coat and no knickers" in the same sentence- just what went on in St Phillips Square doesn't bear thinking about :)
I recall when I lived in Brum - a woman had her hair done in Rackhams and then attempted suicide immediately after by jumping out of the window - unfortunately she landed on a poor soul walking beneath and killed him/her instead - 


I was just about to post that my mate's next door neighbour jumped off Rackhams and unfortunately she didn't land in a suit she landed on a passer by. Mrs Legge I think her name was, lived on Belchers Lane, Bordesley Green. True story.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 21, 2018, 09:15:30 PM
Makes me feel old remembering Brum before Rackhams.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KevinGage on July 21, 2018, 09:29:40 PM
Amusing reaction on that lot.com

Quote
lentini2001
If blues fell into a bucket of tits they would come out sucking a thumb.

Whereas that lot would fall off the roof of Rackham's and land in a suit

We are Don Draper to their Benny from Crossroads. 

They know it, we know it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 21, 2018, 10:09:01 PM
Makes me feel old remembering Brum before Rackhams.

Delving through my family tree, my grandad's cousin, Maurice Isacke Clutterbuck, was chairman of Rackham and Co in the 1920s.  My grandad also had the middle name Isacke, which was the maiden name of my great grandmother.  Birmingham royalty, me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 21, 2018, 11:02:20 PM
What hasn’t been spoken about is that as much as Xia has a lot to do with the financial problems his business connections may very well have helped save the club. We’ve all seen him presenting at conferences or networking in various parts of the world. Billionaires like these two don’t appear on everyone’s contact list so whatever role Xia played in getting these two in he should be commended for doing so.

Yes, well done Dr Tony, well done for bringing the club to the edge of financial meltdown in the space of 18 months, managing to bring about a situation where we have stories like this:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-takeover-saved-steve-12958776

... only to accept an offer from some people he'd never have heard of had he not got us so desperate in the first place, thereby attracting their attention.

The sooner we get rid of this shyster, the better.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 21, 2018, 11:26:01 PM
Yes, I’m not sure how much credit can be taken from basically having us on the verge of going to the wall. We’re fortunate that wealthy investors have been prepared to invest, but it’s not like this is on the back of a coherent plan.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 21, 2018, 11:35:44 PM
He was clearly an opportunist, a gambler, who would have cashed in if we'd been promoted.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: jay on July 21, 2018, 11:48:26 PM
He was clearly an opportunist, a gambler, who would have cashed in if we'd been promoted.
yeah I agree
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 21, 2018, 11:52:51 PM
I'd go with gambler more than chancer/shyster. Mainly because he did have access to the best part of £150m, which in my experience the chancer/shyster types don't. I think more Knighton with those terms, wanted to buy Man Utd, but could only afford Carlisle and UFO chasing.

Such a shame that the whole regenerating the area appears to have been load of old bollocks.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: wozwebs on July 21, 2018, 11:55:44 PM
Interesting article. Tony turned down £90m from a Saudi Group.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-takeover-saved-steve-12958776
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: jwarry on July 22, 2018, 05:26:14 AM
What happened to the Meaning Evil’s pages of explanation that everything would take time because of due diligence etc?!? Shows they haven’t a scoobies
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villafirst on July 22, 2018, 07:43:29 AM
Interestingly, Adidas has a net worth of about $37 billion (2017 figure). Nassef Sawiris is it's largest individual shareholder at 6% holding. He bought in when Adidas was going through a rough spell in 2014. Afterwards the brand soared in the next 2 years. He seems a very astute businessman looking at articles I've read. I reckon we'll see Villa in Adidas kit at some point - not sure how long the Luke 1977 agreement runs for?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 22, 2018, 07:56:53 AM
My opinion of Xia is similar to that of PWS.  He is a gambler.  A gambler who got in over his head.  It is the nature of gambling.  I extend to him the courtesy of letting a clearer picture of what actually happened at the club in the aftermath of the play off final before I call him a crook.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: myf on July 22, 2018, 08:07:38 AM
My opinion of Xia is similar to that of PWS.  He is a gambler.  A gambler who got in over his head.  It is the nature of gambling.  I extend to him the courtesy of letting a clearer picture of what actually happened at the club in the aftermath of the play off final before I call him a crook.

Will be interesting to see how vocal xia is on twitter from now on.  I'm hoping they be instructed him to stay off it
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 22, 2018, 08:25:48 AM
In my very personal, very humble opinion, the Villa problems of the post Ellis era cannot be bundled up and dumped on two owners, Lerner and Xia both of whom sustained very heavy financial haircuts for the privilege of owning Aston Villa.  Our failure has been systemic and it is that systemic failure from the top to the bottom of the club that now needs to be addressed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: wozwebs on July 22, 2018, 08:47:36 AM
Anyone else read it NSWE as North, South, West and East?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 22, 2018, 08:50:57 AM
Anyone else read it NSWE as North, South, West and East?

It’s NSFW in my eyes.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on July 22, 2018, 09:00:33 AM
In my very personal, very humble opinion, the Villa problems of the post Ellis era cannot be bundled up and dumped on two owners, Lerner and Xia both of whom sustained very heavy financial haircuts for the privilege of owning Aston Villa.  Our failure has been systemic and it is that systemic failure from the top to the bottom of the club that now needs to be addressed.
Yes, it seems there has been an apparent lack of understanding about how to create a sustainable and club-wide framework in which good players can be acquired, developed and allowed to do what they do best. It is not only poor process; it’s been a lack of focus on developing a culture which encourages the ‘right’ behaviours and defines who to bring in to enhance the playing squad. All of which would have enhanced the academy’s and other playing staff; and the non-playing staff.
Ellis lacked that last bit (culture development) as well, but at least made up for it with the right administrators and some process.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 22, 2018, 09:16:52 AM
Interestingly, Adidas has a net worth of about $37 billion (2017 figure). Nassef Sawiris is it's largest individual shareholder at 6% holding. He bought in when Adidas was going through a rough spell in 2014. Afterwards the brand soared in the next 2 years. He seems a very astute businessman looking at articles I've read. I reckon we'll see Villa in Adidas kit at some point - not sure how long the Luke 1977 agreement runs for?
If he is an astute business man, and I believe he is as he is considerably wealthy, he would instruct  his management to do the most commercially favourable kit deal not just move to Adidas.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Holte132 on July 22, 2018, 09:18:41 AM
Anyone else read it NSWE as North, South, West and East?

Yes
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 22, 2018, 09:19:15 AM
Anyone else read it NSWE as North, South, West and East?

It’s NSFW in my eyes.
Everything must start in the land of rising sun so it should be EWNS. We will conquer the world. This was always the real Xia plan.😧
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villabear on July 22, 2018, 09:22:13 AM
Sunday Times article regarding takeover:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/billionaires-ride-in-to-rescue-aston-villa-l2fdpkvk6
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 22, 2018, 09:22:47 AM
In my very personal, very humble opinion, the Villa problems of the post Ellis era cannot be bundled up and dumped on two owners, Lerner and Xia both of whom sustained very heavy financial haircuts for the privilege of owning Aston Villa.  Our failure has been systemic and it is that systemic failure from the top to the bottom of the club that now needs to be addressed.
Yes Brian we have been painting over the damp patch time and time again instead of fixing it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 22, 2018, 09:26:05 AM
Sunday Times article regarding takeover:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/billionaires-ride-in-to-rescue-aston-villa-l2fdpkvk6
Sort of headline that must be music to the ears of fans of our neighbours. Any chance you could cut and paste the whole article please?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pbavfckuwait on July 22, 2018, 09:27:59 AM
Our last two owners have to a large extent bought into, the get the club to the top quick schemes, and have been very reliant on the Manager for their football advice. When you think of the no marks we have had here, since pube head did one, it is not very surprising we found ourselves where we are at the moment.
Lerner to start with and Xia seemed to think keep in contact with the supporters, Krulak and Dr No on twitter, it will be fine, but still only telling us what they want to hear, i.e. Dr No and Wyness plan B.
I hope our new owners set the framework up correctly and if I do not see either off them on Twitter, twatter or whatever, that will be fine with me. Any required statements come out of the Media side of Villa park, not some sodomite and emoji crap we have had to put up with and only inform us when it requires us to know.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on July 22, 2018, 09:37:44 AM
Our last two owners have to a large extent bought into, the get the club to the top quick schemes, and have been very reliant on the Manager for their football advice. When you think of the no marks we have had here, since pube head did one, it is not very surprising we found ourselves where we are at the moment.
Lerner to start with and Xia seemed to think keep in contact with the supporters, Krulak and Dr No on twitter, it will be fine, but still only telling us what they want to hear, i.e. Dr No and Wyness plan B.
I hope our new owners set the framework up correctly and if I do not see either off them on Twitter, twatter or whatever, that will be fine with me. Any required statements come out of the Media side of Villa park, not some sodomite and emoji crap we have had to put up with and only inform us when it requires us to know.

I agree but you can have the best framework and Football structures in the world but the whole thing lives or dies depending on who the manager is

Man Utd are the biggest footballing global brand but it was only built to the size it is now on what Fergie was doing on the training pitch

the manager is the single most important person at any Football club
until you get that right you are heading nowhere
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2018, 09:42:36 AM
Good reading that article.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Axl Rose on July 22, 2018, 09:42:47 AM
Sunday Times article regarding takeover:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/billionaires-ride-in-to-rescue-aston-villa-l2fdpkvk6
Sort of headline that must be music to the ears of fans of our neighbours. Any chance you could cut and paste the whole article please?

Here you go, pal.

Billionaires ride in to rescue Aston Villa
Investors raise promotion hopes after buying 55 per cent stake in the club

Ian Whittell
July 22 2018, 12:01am, The Sunday Times

England’s World Cup defeat by Croatia 11 days ago may have resulted in national disappointment, but for Aston Villa supporters it could prove to have been one of the most pivotal events in the club’s history, given what was unfolding in an Idaho hotel room as the semi-final took place.

Sequestered there while attending the annual Sun Valley “moguls” conference were billionaire friends Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens. By the end of the evening and despite the anti-climax of seeing the team they were supporting lose, the pair had hatched a plan to buy Villa.

Nine days later, the pair had each bought 27.5% of the Championship club from Tony Xia, for a controlling interest in a venture he had mortgaged to the hilt in a gamble to win promotion, only for the team to fall short in the playoff final against Fulham in May.

Given the Midlands club’s current debt, the pair were able to wrestle the 55% controlling interest for £30m although if the new owners are to fulfil the ambition of Xia, they are looking at bankrolling manager Steve Bruce with a considerably larger sum.

“They obviously have deep pockets,” said a source close to the deal. “They spoke about ‘the upper echelons of English football’ so they are not going into this to stay in the Championship.

“They are genuine football fans. Nassef, in particular, is a pretty private guy for a man of his wealth. He is not doing this because he is a brash guy who wants to splash the cash. He’s doing it primarily for his love of the game and that applies to both of them.”

If the speed and efficient nature of their takeover is anything to go by, Villa supporters could be in for a spectacular ride. Within three days of the Croatia game, Sawiris, a London-based Egyptian businessman worth an estimated £5.2bn, and Edens had relocated to the Hilton on Edgware Road for meetings. By last Monday, talks with Xia concluded at Sopwell House in St Albans, where a deal was finalised.

The purchase marks the fulfilment of the billionaires’ long-standing interest in the sport. Edens, a co-owner in NBA team the Milwaukee Bucks, had attended every World Cup since USA 1994 until this summer and spoke to the former England captain David Beckham about becoming involved in his Miami MLS franchise, while Sawiris’ array of business interests includes a board position at Adidas.

The pair would not be the first successful businessmen to flounder in football — as Xia will testify after a summer in which playoff defeat was followed by an unpaid £4m tax bill and concerns about Villa’s inability to meet the Football League’s financial fair play regulations concerning “profitability and sustainability”.

The situation led to an acceptance that any saleable assets — particularly the creative midfielder Jack Grealish, aged 22 — would be liable to being sold and drove Xia to look for fresh investment.

The crisis also created uncertainty over the status of veteran manager Bruce and he, as well as the club’s immediate financial obligations and transfer policy, will be widely examined by the new owners when they convene with Xia at Villa Park, possibly as early as tomorrow. Villa open the Championship season with a tricky trip to Hull City on Monday, August 6.

Short-term, sources talk of “stabilising” the club’s finances while the duo are bullish about the need to find a way to not only bring in new blood but also keep players such as Grealish.

Longer-term, they have spoken of investing heavily in youth development and competing for honours, while Villa fans can expect a more “traditional” approach from the reserved Sawiris. Xia’s eccentric social media antics could be a thing of the past.

Indeed, whether Xia has a long-term role remains to be seen. With Sawiris “executive chairman” and Edens “co-chairman,” Xia remains on the board, for now, with his minority interest.

There is, therefore, a large element of the unknown facing Villa but, if the success Edens has enjoyed in running the Bucks over the past four years is anything to go by, the signs are good. Not only has the basketball team’s value nearly doubled to just over a billion dollars but the club recently re-signed star player Giannis Antetokounmpo to a four-year, £76.1m contract worth £366,000 a week. Bruce and Villa fans dare only dream of such a future.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mrfuse on July 22, 2018, 09:43:51 AM
Sorry duplicate paste from the Times.

I particularly liked this bit:

"If the speed and efficient nature of their takeover is anything to go by, Villa supporters could be in for a spectacular ride."
 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on July 22, 2018, 10:40:25 AM
Has anyone seen if their shoes are any good?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Bad English on July 22, 2018, 10:40:41 AM
Nerd a
The new owners are already identified by the letters NSWE.  As you walk up Trinity Road look up at the spire of Holy Trinity church.  A cock of the walk on the very top surmounting the letters NSWE.

It has to be an omen.

Praise be: it's a sign!

ps I hope you'll be out & about today collecting shoes, Brian. You KNOW it makes sense. ;)
Lets hope it's not all in vane :) ( I know the spelling is different but a pun is a pun!)

Good work, Sir. I can see this thread is now heading in the right direction.  8)
Honestly, some of you just go whichever way the wind is blowing

If the bells are ringing we can aspire to greater things.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 22, 2018, 10:50:21 AM
Cheers Axl.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 22, 2018, 10:51:59 AM
I would like to know Howard Hodgson’s take on this after all he obviously facilitated it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Zouch Villa on July 22, 2018, 10:57:49 AM
So we now have three extremely wealthy individuals and supposedly successful businessman on the board.  If we can navigate our way through the FFP landmines then surely we can’t fuck this up again.  Could we?

That Sunday Times article makes a very pleasing read after the turmultous couple of months we’ve just had.  I just hope Sawiris and Eden use their business and sporting nous to weed out the rot that is inevitably rooted itself at the club.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 22, 2018, 11:08:09 AM
Has anyone seen if their shoes are any good?

Jeffery Wests or they can GTFO.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdward on July 22, 2018, 11:11:06 AM
That Times article is an interesting read, but is there any official communication from this NSWE group spelling out what they will do with Villa, or us it all just guesswork at this point.
I’m not saying I want a Man City type of approach, but after the last few weeks and years, I find it hard to get excited about new owners until they show  their  true colors.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: nodge on July 22, 2018, 11:23:32 AM
I would like to know Howard Hodgson’s take on this after all he obviously facilitated it.

Check his twitter account
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Smith on July 22, 2018, 11:45:01 AM
That Times article is an interesting read, but is there any official communication from this NSWE group spelling out what they will do with Villa, or us it all just guesswork at this point.
I’m not saying I want a Man City type of approach, but after the last few weeks and years, I find it hard to get excited about new owners until they show  their  true colors.


If they were making big detailed statements two days after buying into the club it would make me nervous.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 22, 2018, 11:45:46 AM
Edens has just given his star basketball player a new four year £75 million/£366,000 a week contract. I bet our Jack's eyes lit up when he read that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 22, 2018, 11:54:44 AM
Our last two owners have to a large extent bought into, the get the club to the top quick schemes, and have been very reliant on the Manager for their football advice. When you think of the no marks we have had here, since pube head did one, it is not very surprising we found ourselves where we are at the moment.
Lerner to start with and Xia seemed to think keep in contact with the supporters, Krulak and Dr No on twitter, it will be fine, but still only telling us what they want to hear, i.e. Dr No and Wyness plan B.
I hope our new owners set the framework up correctly and if I do not see either off them on Twitter, twatter or whatever, that will be fine with me. Any required statements come out of the Media side of Villa park, not some sodomite and emoji crap we have had to put up with and only inform us when it requires us to know.

I agree but you can have the best framework and Football structures in the world but the whole thing lives or dies depending on who the manager is

Man Utd are the biggest footballing global brand but it was only built to the size it is now on what Fergie was doing on the training pitch

the manager is the single most important person at any Football club
until you get that right you are heading nowhere


I am speaking from hindsight and also being a hypocrite as I was underwhelmed when we appointed Houllier and stayed underwhelmed throughout his time at the club and was happy when he left. But if we thought it had started going wrong when MON left then when McLeish replaced Houllier was when it really went tits up.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on July 22, 2018, 11:59:27 AM
So, do they each own 27.5% ie through their separate companies as I'm inferring from that article or do they own a business together, NSWE, which now owns 55% of the Villa and, crucially, a controlling amount?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Legion on July 22, 2018, 12:07:42 PM
From the AVST:

Quote
Members and supporters will no doubt be delighted to hear of the 55% investment made by Messrs Sawiris and Edens. This appears to have resolved the short-term funding issue faced by our football club.

Whilst it is acknowledged that the last two weeks must have been difficult for senior people at the club, it is disappointing that they did not respond to our request for a meeting.

Accordingly, we have repeated that request and are hopeful that on this occasion we will be able to effect a meeting to discuss the way forward. It is encouraging that in the Press Release it was stated that the owners are stewards of Aston Villa Football Club on behalf of the fans.

The new investment does not mean that there is a licence to spend money (FFP restricts that) but there must be a desire to have a period of stability and financial prudence under wise and experienced leadership. We will press for that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 22, 2018, 12:11:38 PM
From the AVST:

Quote
Members and supporters will no doubt be delighted to hear of the 55% investment made by Messrs Sawiris and Edens. This appears to have resolved the short-term funding issue faced by our football club.

Whilst it is acknowledged that the last two weeks must have been difficult for senior people at the club, it is disappointing that they did not respond to our request for a meeting.

Accordingly, we have repeated that request and are hopeful that on this occasion we will be able to effect a meeting to discuss the way forward. It is encouraging that in the Press Release it was stated that the owners are stewards of Aston Villa Football Club on behalf of the fans.

The new investment does not mean that there is a licence to spend money (FFP restricts that) but there must be a desire to have a period of stability and financial prudence under wise and experienced leadership. We will press for that.

That sounds like something my parish council would put out.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 22, 2018, 12:14:42 PM
I would like to know Howard Hodgson’s take on this after all he obviously facilitated it.

Aboard the good ship lollipop.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: simboy on July 22, 2018, 12:34:04 PM
From what I have read about Edens and the Milwaukee Bucks he seems to have invested wisely, supporting and improving the club. I haven’t read about much (if any) fan decent ... remember Lerner and the Cleveland Browns - cautiously optimistic about all this.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 22, 2018, 12:37:35 PM

I’m not saying I want a Man City type of approach,

I am.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 22, 2018, 12:39:46 PM
Me too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 22, 2018, 12:44:46 PM
Me too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 22, 2018, 12:50:01 PM
And me.  That Malcolm Allison is rubbish.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 22, 2018, 12:56:14 PM

I’m not saying I want a Man City type of approach,

I am.

I wouldn't want to copy a club that sacked Ron Saunders and replaced him with Tony Book. Although I am grateful that they did.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 22, 2018, 01:04:39 PM
A club that nicked Joe Mercer and named the road to their stadium after him.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Small Rodent on July 22, 2018, 01:08:23 PM
". By last Monday, talks with Xia concluded at Sopwell House in St Albans, where a deal was finalised."

Sopwell Lane in St Albans has some of the best real ale pubs on the planet.

This is a good sign.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 22, 2018, 01:14:36 PM

I’m not saying I want a Man City type of approach,

I am.

And me.

I know we will not get it, but who would say no to a bottomless pit of money taking you from Shaun Goater to Aguero in a few years?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2018, 01:19:46 PM

I’m not saying I want a Man City type of approach,

I am.

And me.

I know we will not get it, but who would say no to a bottomless pit of money taking you from Shaun Goater to Aguero in a few years?

Indeed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 22, 2018, 01:20:06 PM
". By last Monday, talks with Xia concluded at Sopwell House in St Albans, where a deal was finalised."

Sopwell Lane in St Albans has some of the best real ale pubs on the planet.

This is a good sign.


In my mind I an conjuring up images of a rather quaintly old fashioned gentlemen's agreement scribbled out and signed on a beer mat.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 22, 2018, 01:23:20 PM
". By last Monday, talks with Xia concluded at Sopwell House in St Albans, where a deal was finalised."

Sopwell Lane in St Albans has some of the best real ale pubs on the planet.

This is a good sign.

Lovely hotel, used to stay there a lot, it’s also next to Veralum Golf Club, the home of The Ryder Cup.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 22, 2018, 01:35:32 PM
It is indeed.  Scored my last try against Old Verulamians.  Celebrated at Sopwell House.  Still have the hangover.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 22, 2018, 02:07:45 PM
We tried the Man. City approach in 2016 didn't we?

I know it's always exciting spending big money and signing players particularly strikers but whole club needs to be scrutinised from top to bottom imo.

We need to be better at promoting young players into first team, we need to be better at scouting exciting players in youth team and also abroad as we'll need both as/when we're a premier league club again.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: spartacuss on July 22, 2018, 02:15:33 PM
Anagrammatically speaking, let's hope Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens investment:  'finesses wads (of) weariness' and displaces the: 'fears, seesaws & windiness' that have been blowing around VP of late.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on July 22, 2018, 02:18:18 PM
We need to be better at promoting young players into first team, we need to be better at scouting exciting players in youth team and also abroad as we'll need both as/when we're a premier league club again.


It sounds like that's the approach they will take, which I agree with too. We have a tradition of having a good youth system and bringing young players through but if we can get that right, we really would be self-sustaining. Losing Jack is painful but I don't think it would be as much if we knew there was another one waiting to come through to replace him, who we knew about and were excited by.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: themossman on July 22, 2018, 02:42:42 PM
Re Edens, I’m trying to get to grips with the idea of someone who has owned a sports team and made it better not dramatically worse. Witchcraft I tell you.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villafirst on July 22, 2018, 02:42:53 PM
We don't need to lose Jack! Money isn't an issue now. We should tell Spurs to do one and see where things stand come January. The ironic thing is, our owners are wealthier than Spurs!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mossie Hennebry on July 22, 2018, 02:52:05 PM
Re: Jack. Surely he's got to be thinking another season out of the PL is another year out of the England setup? He may want to go himself and who could blame him?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on July 22, 2018, 02:53:33 PM
Re Edens, I’m trying to get to grips with the idea of someone who has owned a sports team and made it better not dramatically worse. Witchcraft I tell you.

give it time
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 22, 2018, 03:00:44 PM
stories circulating that Jack wants to leave for CL football
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on July 22, 2018, 03:09:37 PM
You mean the daily mail story wth no quotes whatsoever?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Legion on July 22, 2018, 03:10:42 PM
Or truth?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: DB on July 22, 2018, 03:13:07 PM
stories circulating that Jack wants to leave for CL football

From the same source that Bruce lost matches on purpose?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2018, 03:19:58 PM
Well if he does who could blame him.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 22, 2018, 03:28:13 PM
stories circulating that Jack wants to leave for CL football

From the same source that Bruce lost matches on purpose?

That made me chuckle.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 22, 2018, 04:00:00 PM
Why? All I was doing - again - is passing something on. I haven't a clue where the rumour originated from . Once the sneering has died down is it really impossible that the lad might have had his head turned and was indeed now set on playing for a side that could offer him a game against Real Madrid rather than Rotherham?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 22, 2018, 04:46:23 PM
Just seen a video on a villa Facebook page, think the new owner is at villa park.
Three white Rolls, two lambos and various range rovers parked outside The Doug stand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 22, 2018, 04:47:36 PM
I can’t see how to do a link. Pretty impressive motorcade!

It’s on Aston Villa: Holte end worldwide page.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Holy Trinity on July 22, 2018, 04:56:03 PM
It's an Asian wedding. That's all
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on July 22, 2018, 04:59:28 PM
Just seen a video on a villa Facebook page, think the new owner is at villa park.
Three white Rolls, two lambos and various range rovers parked outside The Doug stand.

Wedding

 Edit (oooh see Holy Trinity already said that )
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 22, 2018, 05:00:28 PM
Ah bollocks!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on July 22, 2018, 05:11:21 PM
It's an Asian wedding. That's all

That'll be a shock to Dr Tony when he rocks up in an Uber.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Holy Trinity on July 22, 2018, 05:53:49 PM
How much is an uber from Peckham to villa park for our very own del boy?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 22, 2018, 06:28:42 PM
Uber from the Elephant to VP is £240 via the M11/M6 so via the bandit country of Peckham £260-70?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 22, 2018, 06:34:44 PM
There’s a good article in the Times today apparently about how this deal came together and some of the plans of our new owners. If someone has a subscription maybe they can post it. Here’s the Twitter link.

https://twitter.com/ste_healy/status/1020966894046674944?s=12

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 22, 2018, 06:50:38 PM
Page 14 TV if your set up is 15 per page.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: old man villa fan on July 22, 2018, 06:53:05 PM
We still command a great deal of respect in the football world due to our tradition. If we were seen to come back from the brink by building a progressive young team and not resorting to big money, I think we would win a great deal of support from football supporters in general who are fed up with money ruining the game.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on July 22, 2018, 06:55:12 PM
Sounds really positive.  We have people are actually good at turning sports clubs around.  I hope this week sees a few things sorted and we get back to buying players.  I am more optimistic with these two in charge than I was with Randy Lerner.   Bruce will be desperate to convince these two that he is the man to take the club forward as he'll be like a kid in a sweet shop if we ever go up!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on July 22, 2018, 07:05:02 PM
We tried the Man. City approach in 2016 didn't we?

I know it's always exciting spending big money and signing players particularly strikers but whole club needs to be scrutinised from top to bottom imo.

We need to be better at promoting young players into first team, we need to be better at scouting exciting players in youth team and also abroad as we'll need both as/when we're a premier league club again.
Mind watching Football Italia in the mid 90s, I guess around the time we signed Savo. Udinese at the time we're spending £2m-£3m a season on scouting, a huge amount really. They'd got scouts watching obscure lower league matches in Ecuador and whatnot. Their theory was that since they sold a player for £6m+ every couple of seasons, plus let a few drop down to Serie B sides for a few hundred thousand each, they were easily covering costs and had a top 8 side most seasons that they'd picked up the whole first team for less money than Lazio spent per player.

Thought at the time - and still - that it makes more sense spendimg say £12million/year on the best  scouts, data analysts and youth coaches money can buy, hoovering up the most talented 16-19 year old kids we can find, bringing them through slowly, then at 21/22 either flog them to a team at an appropriate level or play them in the first team - no hoarding, they're either played or moved on so the next batch get their chance. It's a long game and would mean 5-10 years of probably not the best first team, but we're probably in a situation right now where the club could stand the change better thanat any time in the past few years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 22, 2018, 07:22:20 PM
We still command a great deal of respect in the football world due to our tradition. If we were seen to come back from the brink by building a progressive young team and not resorting to big money, I think we would win a great deal of support from football supporters in general who are fed up with money ruining the game.
This for me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andrew08 on July 22, 2018, 07:57:15 PM
We still command a great deal of respect in the football world due to our tradition. If we were seen to come back from the brink by building a progressive young team and not resorting to big money, I think we would win a great deal of support from football supporters in general who are fed up with money ruining the game.
This for me.

And me with the caveat that we a) play a decent style of footy and b) treat the domestic cups with respect and play our best team.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on July 22, 2018, 08:33:27 PM
As much as I admire the sentiment of slowly building a team and and ethos built on development and sustainability, it is completely unrealistic in the modern game.

Look at the teams that win anything and look how they do it. It is all based on money and having the best players.
Yes I know we can quote Leicester City but that was a complete one off, flukes happen.

I’m sorry, but give me wining stuff in 3 or 5 years time with money being invested rather than playing slowly, slowly catchy monkey.

Once you start winning stuff if it self perpetuating anyway and the financial rewards come with winning.

For me, 3 massive decisions  to be made this week.

1. Do the new owners stick with Bruce.
2. Do the new owners have a plan for the Grealish situation, either way.
3. Who is going to be the new CEO. This is a critical appointment.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 22, 2018, 08:35:14 PM
If the new owners want to turn the spirit and feelings around the club back in the right direction, with one decisive move, they should find a way to keep Grealish and, to a lesser extent, Chester.

That would be an amazing message to the fans and lift spirits enormously.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Holy Trinity on July 22, 2018, 08:37:50 PM
Uber from the Elephant to VP is £240 via the M11/M6 so via the bandit country of Peckham £260-70?

That's actually cheaper than I thought. Yet Birmingham airport to bartley green was quoted to me at 60 quid!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 22, 2018, 09:03:48 PM
Didn't realise Nas and Wes were good friends.

I just assumed Xia or whoever was tasked with finding new investors had found them and asked if they wanted to invest in the club together.

Again can only be good news as was worrying about a Hicks-Gillett style stand off a while down the line. Could still happen I guess but at least they know how each other operates in business.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 22, 2018, 09:22:19 PM
Didn't realise Nas and Wes were good friends.

I just assumed Xia or whoever was tasked with finding new investors had found them and asked if they wanted to invest in the club together.

They obviously have advisors, I'd love to know who was the 'football man' they used to send them in the direction of Villa Park.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on July 22, 2018, 09:23:56 PM
Didn't realise Nas and Wes were good friends.

I just assumed Xia or whoever was tasked with finding new investors had found them and asked if they wanted to invest in the club together.

They obviously have advisors, I'd love to know who was the 'football man' they used to send them in the direction of Villa Park.

HH obvs
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 22, 2018, 09:29:31 PM
From the AVST:

Quote
Members and supporters will no doubt be delighted to hear of the 55% investment made by Messrs Sawiris and Edens. This appears to have resolved the short-term funding issue faced by our football club.

Whilst it is acknowledged that the last two weeks must have been difficult for senior people at the club, it is disappointing that they did not respond to our request for a meeting.

Accordingly, we have repeated that request and are hopeful that on this occasion we will be able to effect a meeting to discuss the way forward. It is encouraging that in the Press Release it was stated that the owners are stewards of Aston Villa Football Club on behalf of the fans.

The new investment does not mean that there is a licence to spend money (FFP restricts that) but there must be a desire to have a period of stability and financial prudence under wise and experienced leadership. We will press for that.

That sounds like something my parish council would put out.

Shouldn't have gone on holiday.......
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on July 22, 2018, 09:46:18 PM
They are getting a bit embarrassing.  Demand a meeting, yes, that will solve things!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 22, 2018, 10:21:47 PM
From our new friends at the Meaning Evil...

How Aston Villa's new sugar daddies did the deal - the latest details to emerge

Shane Ireland takes a closer look at how Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens hatched a rapid plan to take a controlling stake in Aston Villa

The speed at which Aston Villa’s takeover went through on Friday has taken sections of the claret and blue faithful by surprise.

It transpires that Villa had been putting the feelers out for fresh investment even before the play-off final defeat at Wembley on May 26 exposed their bleak finances.

But details are starting to emerge about how rapidly Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens sprung into action to come to the rescue of the cash-strapped Championship club.

HOW MUCH HAVE THEY PAID AND FOR WHAT SHARE?

Sawiris and Edens have each bought a 27.5 per cent stake in Villa, taking their combined total to what is a controlling stake of 55 per cent.

To buy those shares, the pair parted with £30m.

Xia bought Villa from Randy Lender for £76m two years ago.

The club's website has now been update to include the new buyers' titles, with Sawiris having become the executive chairman and Wes Edens a co-chairman.

The other co-chairman remains Xia.

Xia said: “I am extremely pleased to have formed a strategic partnership with Nassef and Wes. We have a common goal of delivering future success for Aston Villa and I look forward to working together to achieve this aim.

“To have come so close to achieving promotion last season was a humbling experience. In finding such strong partners as Nassef and Wes we’re gearing up to fight again and bring back the success that this club deserves and we all so want to provide it with.

“The future is exciting on a number of fronts and I look forward to exploring further business collaborations.”


HOW DID THEIR INVESTMENT COME ABOUT?

During England's World Cup defeat to Croatia 11 days ago.

While Gareth Southgate's Three Lions were contesting their semi final in Russia, Sawiris and Edens were hatching a plan to save Villa, according to the Times.

They watched the match together in a hotel room in Idaho during the Sun Valley conference - an event which brings together millionaires and billionaires from across the globe.

And just nine days later they had sealed a controlling stake in Villa.

After the conference, Sawiris and Edens relocated to the Hilton hotel on Edgware Road in London to fine-tune their plan of action.

They then held meetings with Xia at Sopwell House in St Albans and quickly reached an agreement.

On Friday, the deal was announced.

Read More


HOW MUCH ARE THEY WORTH?

The Sawiris family are the most famous and richest family in Egypt having made an incredible fortune over the years.

Forbes estimated the family’s combined net worth at $36bn (£27bn) which highlights their financial muscle.

Nassef is said to have a personal wealth of around £5.2bn, making him the richest Egyptian in the world.

Edens is a co-owner of the Milwaukee Bucks, a National Basketball Association (NBA) franchise based in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, along with Marc Lasry.

Forbes estimates his personal fortune stands at around $2bn

DO THEY HAVE ANY PREVIOUS FOOTBALL EXPERIENCE?

Both men are football lovers, especially Edens who, before this summer's tournament had attended every World Cup since USA 1994.

He also spoke to David Beckham this summer about becoming involved in the former Manchester United and England star's MLS franchise in Miami, the Times reports.

Regarding wider sporting interests, in 2014 Edens and Marc Lasry purchased the Bucks from Herb Kohl for $550 million, promising to keep the team in Wisconsin and build a new arena to replace the BMO Harris Bradley Center.

And he's enjoyed great success in that venture - the value of the team has nearly doubled to just over a billion dollars since he took charge.

They were also in a position to recently re-sign their star player Giannis Antetokounmpo on a bumper £76.1m contract worth £366,000 a week.

Sawiris' ventures include a board position at sportswear giants adidas, while his brother Samih owns part of Swiss football club FC Luzern.

He purchased a 12.5 per cent stake in the top-flight team in 2011.


HOW HAVE THEY MADE THEIR MONEY?

As mentioned above, he has a stake in adidas and cement giant Lafarge Holcim, but it’s his company OCI - one of the world’s largest nitrogen fertilizer producers - that brings in the real money.

Nassef is ranked at No.251 in the world’s rich list.

A co-founder of Fortress Investment Group, Edens began his career in 1987 at Lehman Brothers, where he was a partner and managing director until 1993.

He then went to BlackRock's private equity division BlackRock Asset Investors, where he remained until 1997 as a partner and managing director.

Edens was one of five principal partners who founded Fortress Investments in 1998.

He also owns the League of Legends team FlyQuest.



Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: berneboy on July 22, 2018, 10:33:35 PM
There’s a good article in the Times today apparently about how this deal came together and some of the plans of our new owners. If someone has a subscription maybe they can post it. Here’s the Twitter link.

https://twitter.com/ste_healy/status/1020966894046674944?s=12




FOOTBALL
Billionaires ride in to rescue Aston Villa
Investors raise promotion hopes after buying 55 per cent stake in the club

Ian Whittell
July 22 2018, 12:01am, The Sunday Times

Prize asset: Aston Villa hope to hold on to Jack G
England’s World Cup defeat by Croatia 11 days ago may have resulted in national disappointment, but for Aston Villa supporters it could prove to have been one of the most pivotal events in the club’s history, given what was unfolding in an Idaho hotel room as the semi-final took place.

Sequestered there while attending the annual Sun Valley “moguls” conference were billionaire friends Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens. By the end of the evening and despite the anti-climax of seeing the team they were supporting lose, the pair had hatched a plan to buy Villa.

Nine days later, the pair had each bought 27.5% of the Championship club from Tony Xia, for a controlling interest in a venture he had mortgaged to the hilt in a gamble to win promotion, only for the team to fall short in the playoff final against Fulham in May.

Given the Midlands club’s current debt, the pair were able to wrestle the 55% controlling interest for £30m although if the new owners are to fulfil the ambition of Xia, they are looking at bankrolling manager Steve Bruce with a considerably larger sum.

“They obviously have deep pockets,” said a source close to the deal. “They spoke about ‘the upper echelons of English football’ so they are not going into this to stay in the Championship.


“They are genuine football fans. Nassef, in particular, is a pretty private guy for a man of his wealth. He is not doing this because he is a brash guy who wants to splash the cash. He’s doing it primarily for his love of the game and that applies to both of them.”

If the speed and efficient nature of their takeover is anything to go by, Villa supporters could be in for a spectacular ride. Within three days of the Croatia game, Sawiris, a London-based Egyptian businessman worth an estimated £5.2bn, and Edens had relocated to the Hilton on Edgware Road for meetings. By last Monday, talks with Xia concluded at Sopwell House in St Albans, where a deal was finalised.

The purchase marks the fulfilment of the billionaires’ long-standing interest in the sport. Edens, a co-owner in NBA team the Milwaukee Bucks, had attended every World Cup since USA 1994 until this summer and spoke to the former England captain David Beckham about becoming involved in his Miami MLS franchise, while Sawiris’ array of business interests includes a board position at Adidas.

The pair would not be the first successful businessmen to flounder in football — as Xia will testify after a summer in which playoff defeat was followed by an unpaid £4m tax bill and concerns about Villa’s inability to meet the Football League’s financial fair play regulations concerning “profitability and sustainability”.

The situation led to an acceptance that any saleable assets — particularly the creative midfielder Jack Grealish, aged 22 — would be liable to being sold and drove Xia to look for fresh investment.

The crisis also created uncertainty over the status of veteran manager Bruce and he, as well as the club’s immediate financial obligations and transfer policy, will be widely examined by the new owners when they convene with Xia at Villa Park, possibly as early as tomorrow. Villa open the Championship season with a tricky trip to Hull City on Monday, August 6.

Short-term, sources talk of “stabilising” the club’s finances while the duo are bullish about the need to find a way to not only bring in new blood but also keep players such as Grealish.

Longer-term, they have spoken of investing heavily in youth development and competing for honours, while Villa fans can expect a more “traditional” approach from the reserved Sawiris. Xia’s eccentric social media antics could be a thing of the past.

Indeed, whether Xia has a long-term role remains to be seen. With Sawiris “executive chairman” and Edens “co-chairman,” Xia remains on the board, for now, with his minority interest.

There is, therefore, a large element of the unknown facing Villa but, if the success Edens has enjoyed in running the Bucks over the past four years is anything to go by, the signs are good. Not only has the basketball team’s value nearly doubled to just over a billion dollars but the club recently re-signed star player Giannis Antetokounmpo to a four-year, £76.1m contract worth £366,000 a week. Bruce and Villa fans dare only dream of such a future.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mike on July 22, 2018, 11:19:34 PM
I've been away for a few days and come back to this... so administration/massive points docking are presumably not going to happen, but how does it affect FFP? Can we now spend money on the squad or are we still unable to ad to the squad because of the wages we pay Micah etc in relation to our turnover? Sadly, I can see us still losing Jack, because he's going to want to play at a higher level than the Championship. If he stays, he must truly want to be a Villa hero.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on July 22, 2018, 11:23:42 PM
John Percy saying that Jack 'wants to go', so he can play in the champs league.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on July 22, 2018, 11:38:00 PM
So who's right, Percy or Moxey?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: adrenachrome on July 22, 2018, 11:42:05 PM
So who's right, Percy or Moxey?

Poxey probably.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 22, 2018, 11:46:40 PM
So who's right, Percy or Moxey?

Poxey probably.

Have Mercy.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 23, 2018, 12:20:23 AM
Uber from the Elephant to VP is £240 via the M11/M6 so via the bandit country of Peckham £260-70?

That's actually cheaper than I thought. Yet Birmingham airport to bartley green was quoted to me at 60 quid!
Most cabbies need protection money to go to Bartley Green that’s why it’s £60.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Holy Trinity on July 23, 2018, 12:56:02 AM
Uber from the Elephant to VP is £240 via the M11/M6 so via the bandit country of Peckham £260-70?

That's actually cheaper than I thought. Yet Birmingham airport to bartley green was quoted to me at 60 quid!
Most cabbies need protection money to go to Bartley Green that’s why it’s £60.

Come on! It's not as bad as Northfield haha
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 23, 2018, 01:49:40 AM
Not going to lie. Those articles gave me movement in my loins. Thanks Berneboy for expanding on that link for me. They both have immense and verified wealth and haven’t bought us to arse around in the Championship. I reckon Bruce could be toast next week, and if not next week soon after the season starts if we are not off to a hot start.

We need ruthless owners who want to win. The Man City approach being discussed earlier is what we need, a mix of smart people being brought in to run us like a proper business. Right people in the required roles; a defined strategy with well thought through tactics.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 23, 2018, 06:45:44 AM
They are getting a bit embarrassing.  Demand a meeting, yes, that will solve things!!

Without talking what are you going to achieve though? Our members have had a bee in their bonnet about the changes to the away scheme that we want to try to sort out. For a month they ignored our calls, emails and statements to have a meeting to sort things like that out. In fact, they didn't even know who we should talk to about it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 23, 2018, 06:47:26 AM
Not going to lie. Those articles gave me movement in my loins. Thanks Berneboy for expanding on that link for me. They both have immense and verified wealth and haven’t bought us to arse around in the Championship. I reckon Bruce could be toast next week, and if not next week soon after the season starts if we are not off to a hot start.

We need ruthless owners who want to win. The Man City approach being discussed earlier is what we need, a mix of smart people being brought in to run us like a proper business. Right people in the required roles; a defined strategy with well thought through tactics.

Whisper it but I reckon this lot will be alright.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 23, 2018, 06:49:55 AM
wouldn't that be something - owners who can actually manage.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 23, 2018, 06:57:25 AM
Not going to lie. Those articles gave me movement in my loins. Thanks Berneboy for expanding on that link for me. They both have immense and verified wealth and haven’t bought us to arse around in the Championship. I reckon Bruce could be toast next week, and if not next week soon after the season starts if we are not off to a hot start.

We need ruthless owners who want to win. The Man City approach being discussed earlier is what we need, a mix of smart people being brought in to run us like a proper business. Right people in the required roles; a defined strategy with well thought through tactics.

Whisper it but I reckon this lot will be alright.

Bruce is going nowhere mind.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 23, 2018, 06:58:39 AM
And owners who can tell the difference between a good decision and a bad one.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 23, 2018, 07:10:37 AM
And owners who can tell the difference between a good decision and a bad one.

They want to run it as a business with a bit of speculate to accumulate in the event of promotion (whilst using their contacts to give us the best chance of going up). I can live with that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: martin o`who?? on July 23, 2018, 07:29:36 AM
False dawn Number37.........
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 23, 2018, 07:33:59 AM
And owners who can tell the difference between a good decision and a bad one.

They want to run it as a business with a bit of speculate to accumulate in the event of promotion (whilst using their contacts to give us the best chance of going up). I can live with that.

Do you know their thoughts on infrastructure and/or the youth system Chelts? I believe that kind of spending is exempt from FFP.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 23, 2018, 07:35:57 AM
False dawn Number37.........

Who knows? I do know Xia could have sold us off entirely for a few quid in his pocket but didn't because he wanted to work with people to take the club forwards. I take that as a positive.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 23, 2018, 07:40:10 AM
And owners who can tell the difference between a good decision and a bad one.

They want to run it as a business with a bit of speculate to accumulate in the event of promotion (whilst using their contacts to give us the best chance of going up). I can live with that.

Do you know their thoughts on infrastructure and/or the youth system Chelts? I believe that kind of spending is exempt from FFP.

Not a Scooby. On detailed plans anyway. They want us to be self sufficient but cleverer on maximising our commercial opportunities. The kids should be the heartbeat of that is very much the view though.

The Yank is genuinely agog at the potential to develop your own players (and from across the world) and has been itching to get involved with sorting an Academy model that does just that, for a long time.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 23, 2018, 08:13:35 AM
And owners who can tell the difference between a good decision and a bad one.

They want to run it as a business with a bit of speculate to accumulate in the event of promotion (whilst using their contacts to give us the best chance of going up). I can live with that.

Do you know their thoughts on infrastructure and/or the youth system Chelts? I believe that kind of spending is exempt from FFP.

Not a Scooby. On detailed plans anyway. They want us to be self sufficient but cleverer on maximising our commercial opportunities. The kids should be the heartbeat of that is very much the view though.

The Yank is genuinely agog at the potential to develop your own players (and from across the world) and has been itching to get involved with sorting an Academy model that does just that, for a long time.

Cheers.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on July 23, 2018, 08:23:45 AM
From what I've been reading about Sawiris and Edens, they and Bruce don't seem like a match. Losing a manager so close to the season's kickoff is not ideal as we found out to our cost with that prat MON. I want Bruce gone but I can see the new owners starting the new season with him to minimise disruption. 6 games is all I'd give him and if he starts slowly again I would expect our new owners to do what Xia should have done last season and bin him.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 23, 2018, 10:06:07 AM
How would getting rid of him 6 games in be less disruptive than getting rid of him now?!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 23, 2018, 10:18:54 AM
I wouldn't get rid of him. There's no point. If we were to have, the time would have been just before 7pm on 26th May.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: tomd2103 on July 23, 2018, 10:39:45 AM
From what I've been reading about Sawiris and Edens, they and Bruce don't seem like a match. Losing a manager so close to the season's kickoff is not ideal as we found out to our cost with that prat MON. I want Bruce gone but I can see the new owners starting the new season with him to minimise disruption. 6 games is all I'd give him and if he starts slowly again I would expect our new owners to do what Xia should have done last season and bin him.

Depends on their plans and the timeframe they have in mind I suppose.  If they see promotion as a realistic target for the coming season, then I can see the logic in keeping Bruce in place and seeing how he does.  If there is a longer term plan in place for promotion and this season is viewed as an opportunity to start putting things in place, then I suppose it could be argued that it wouldn't matter too much if Bruce went now really.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mike on July 23, 2018, 10:55:49 AM
I always think it's unfair to give a manager a few games then sack him, but in this case, we won't be ready for the season if we sack him now, so I would let him start the season and then boot him out at a time to suit us unless he makes himself unsackable. Edit - Presuming we can afford to without falling foul of FFP.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: old man villa fan on July 23, 2018, 11:02:15 AM
How would getting rid of him 6 games in be less disruptive than getting rid of him now?!

It would be as disruptive but it would give them around 2 months to assess the right appointment. With the season start being so close, the availability  issue is probably the same. You would like to think that money will talk in being able to get the right manager during the season. The most important thing is to get the right manager that fits with the plan, however long it takes. They should be assessing it from now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villafirst on July 23, 2018, 11:13:08 AM
I think we should stick with Bruce for now with time so short to the big kick-off. A terrible close season after Wembley. Xia just about saved the club in time with the new investors. The guy is a gambler. If they change Manager, Dean Smith would be a better choice than Thierry Henry. At least he knows this league.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cumbriavilla on July 23, 2018, 11:58:53 AM
False dawn Number37.........

Who knows? I do know Xia could have sold us off entirely for a few quid in his pocket but didn't because he wanted to work with people to take the club forwards. I take that as a positive.

For Xia - I think its more of a case of still being part of the gamble - but he'll have to share the resulting PL riches with others.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 23, 2018, 12:23:05 PM
two's company, three is a crowd
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on July 23, 2018, 12:59:12 PM
I’m somewhat sceptical of their Football pedigree despite being “fans”, I know for a fact many of us would struggle hugely running the Villa if ever given the chance, so quite how they’ll do will be interesting. With the departures of Wyness/Round we desperately need a football administrator of pedigree as CEO and a forward looking DoF. Is Dan Ashworth still leaving the FA?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: darren woolley on July 23, 2018, 01:01:41 PM
two's company, three is a crowd

Three In a Bed which I think the french say Menage a Trois.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 23, 2018, 01:01:52 PM
There was something on talk shite about a land revaluation (we've got quite an extensive portfolio) which could help ease FFP.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: saunders_heroes on July 23, 2018, 01:20:18 PM
He reckons the FFP problems were a red herring and the real concern was Xia’s lack of cash.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on July 23, 2018, 01:31:26 PM
As much as I am as happy as a dog with several appendages that we are no longer looking over the precipice of debt etc anyone else still a little nervous of the new money coming in?

At least I suppose that after the secrecy surrounding Xia from the off in regard to money and history you can clearly see who these guys are and how they go there.

Have everything crossed that this is 3rd time lucky for us
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 23, 2018, 01:44:17 PM
I wouldn't bet against that. I thought all along that the FFP side was being overplayed.  I still think there's a shortfall of a decent amount but the £40-50m figure never worked for me.  I had it as closer to £30m all along and with all the leavers and the sales we've made I honestly wouldn't be shocked if the current picture is something more like £20m to be made up.  Even if the numbers were right I'd make the shortfall now to be a lot less than some are still suggesting.

If we can get £4-5m for the stadium naming, similar again for some obscure sponsorship deals and then sell a few fringe players (Lansbury, BB, Gardner?) I think that might be enough to not really worry about it any more for a few months.  Good team performances, improved commercials and a decent run in the League Cup could all help nudge things in the right direction.

None of this gives us the funds to sign anyone, and we do need a couple of players, so we're far from out of the woods but I don't think we should be worrying massively over FFP right now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: DB on July 23, 2018, 01:44:48 PM
Yes, me too, but compared to where we were last week
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: in exile on July 23, 2018, 02:16:22 PM
False dawn Number37.........

Where's it running and what time?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 23, 2018, 02:48:54 PM
Talksport earlier

https://twitter.com/villareport/status/1021373436243955712?s=12
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nelly on July 23, 2018, 02:55:00 PM
"They've now got the third richest owners in English football".

That definitely lifts spirits. And I'll lift a spirit to that! Up the Villa!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 23, 2018, 03:10:20 PM
He reckons the FFP problems were a red herring and the real concern was Xia’s lack of cash.
The FFP situation is real, how bad?  we can not tell but the biggest and most immediate problem ( lack of cash) has been solved.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 23, 2018, 03:13:12 PM
False dawn Number37.........

Where's it running and what time?

7.17 Hall Green.  Ballyregan Bob, Xia’s Million’s and Fair Play Financial all running in the same race.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 23, 2018, 03:15:55 PM
False dawn Number37.........

Where's it running and what time?

7.17 Hall Green.  Ballyregan Bob, Xia’s Million’s and Fair Play Financial all running in the same race.
There or there abouts will be.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 23, 2018, 03:16:20 PM
Imagine selling a stake in the firm that you founded and picking up a mere £400m.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 23, 2018, 03:21:27 PM
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on July 23, 2018, 03:26:04 PM
This wouldn't have happened had we been promoted so missing out could actually turn out to have been a good thing long-term. What must the Bluenoses and Baggies be thinking? They must have been loving life for a few weeks and just when things look really serious and that the administrators might be called in, a couple of billionaires with great credentials come along and save us.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dr Butler on July 23, 2018, 03:28:12 PM
This wouldn't have happened had we been promoted so missing out could actually turn out to have been a good thing long-term. 


a good point

UTV
The Doc
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 23, 2018, 03:28:50 PM
Imagine selling a stake in the firm that you founded and picking up a mere £400m.

I don’t get out of bed for less than half a billion.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Axl Rose on July 23, 2018, 03:46:33 PM
"They've now got the third richest owners in English football".

That definitely lifts spirits. And I'll lift a spirit to that! Up the Villa!

I'm guessing Man City have the richest owners, so who are in second place?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 23, 2018, 03:49:24 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Fred Crump on July 23, 2018, 03:50:59 PM
I’m somewhat sceptical of their Football pedigree despite being “fans”, I know for a fact many of us would struggle hugely running the Villa if ever given the chance, so quite how they’ll do will be interesting. With the departures of Wyness/Round we desperately need a football administrator of pedigree as CEO and a forward looking DoF. Is Dan Ashworth still leaving the FA?

If he is I would do what it takes , he is top drawer. Then get him to poach his former colleague Mark Harrison from the Boggies and there's our academy sorted.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FrankyH on July 23, 2018, 03:58:03 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aev on July 23, 2018, 03:58:48 PM
"They've now got the third richest owners in English football".

That definitely lifts spirits. And I'll lift a spirit to that! Up the Villa!


I'm guessing Man City have the richest owners, so who are in second place?

Putin, sorry I mean Abramovich?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 23, 2018, 04:02:32 PM
This wouldn't have happened had we been promoted so missing out could actually turn out to have been a good thing long-term.

I was making the same point yesterday. Assuming of course we get promoted in the next season or two.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 23, 2018, 04:04:18 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?

Companies House (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00046572/charges)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 23, 2018, 04:08:38 PM
Imagine selling a stake in the firm that you founded and picking up a mere £400m.

I don’t get out of bed for less than half a billion.
So how’s that long sleep going?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 23, 2018, 04:09:58 PM
Imagine selling a stake in the firm that you founded and picking up a mere £400m.

I don’t get out of bed for less than half a billion.
So how’s that long sleep going?

He's posting from the afterlife.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 23, 2018, 04:11:39 PM
This wouldn't have happened had we been promoted so missing out could actually turn out to have been a good thing long-term. 


a good point

UTV
The Doc

Was thinking the same thing myself.  And, have also thought had we not sold to Lerner in 2006 we could be where Man City are now and they where we are.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on July 23, 2018, 04:45:59 PM
Good read, this https://www.wsj.com/articles/wesley-edens-is-an-investor-with-an-affinity-for-the-underdog-1532111122
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on July 23, 2018, 04:48:10 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?

Companies House (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00046572/charges)
Not sure if I’m understanding these right, but it seems there was a mortgage against Villa Park?!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 23, 2018, 05:09:33 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?

Companies House (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00046572/charges)
Not sure if I’m understanding these right, but it seems there was a mortgage against Villa Park?!

And a few private dwellings as well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kipeye on July 23, 2018, 05:34:54 PM
Been away for a week-can someone bring me up to date or point to the page I need to go to? Ta.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kipeye on July 23, 2018, 05:48:06 PM
OK-I found it. Another couple of billionaires-meh! So tedious I think I will become a Bluenose so that I can rely on my daily gloom being sustainable.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smoke on July 23, 2018, 05:55:46 PM
Paying off the mortgages is obviously good news but maybe does add some validity to what the guy from etorro was saying on talk sport today.

Basically we took a hit financially when we got relegated by devaluing our land and properties etc. He reckoned we could re appraise those values at a higher market value. Thus increasing our profitability and sustainability which is the EFL's version of what everyone is calling FFP.

Wouldn't be too much of a surprise to find the press etc had sensationalized our impending doom a bit. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 23, 2018, 06:03:52 PM
Paying off the mortgages is obviously good news but maybe does add some validity to what the guy from etorro was saying on talk sport today.

Basically we took a hit financially when we got relegated by devaluing our land and properties etc. He reckoned we could re appraise those values at a higher market value. Thus increasing our profitability and sustainability which is the EFL's version of what everyone is calling FFP.

Wouldn't be too much of a surprise to find the press etc had sensationalized our impending doom a bit. 

The £40 million hole in FFP figure continues to be quoted by all and sundry without much basis.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 23, 2018, 06:15:34 PM
This wouldn't have happened had we been promoted so missing out could actually turn out to have been a good thing long-term. 


a good point

UTV
The Doc

Was thinking the same thing myself.  And, have also thought had we not sold to Lerner in 2006 we could be where Man City are now and they where we are.
And if only that fucker Bruce had not scored those two fergie time goals😥
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: murfee on July 23, 2018, 06:28:14 PM
Paying off the mortgages is obviously good news but maybe does add some validity to what the guy from etorro was saying on talk sport today.

Basically we took a hit financially when we got relegated by devaluing our land and properties etc. He reckoned we could re appraise those values at a higher market value. Thus increasing our profitability and sustainability which is the EFL's version of what everyone is calling FFP.

Wouldn't be too much of a surprise to find the press etc had sensationalized our impending doom a bit. 
Herein lies the truth. Its seems that Dr T was hiding behind ffp.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: oldhill_avfc on July 23, 2018, 06:35:29 PM
False dawn Number37.........

Who knows? I do know Xia could have sold us off entirely for a few quid in his pocket but didn't because he wanted to work with people to take the club forwards. I take that as a positive.


Are you saying he turned down an offer that would repay his costs in full plus some spare cash?  I don't see how that's possible....

I would think it far more likely that Xia needed to retain some equity in the hope of it gaining value to repay the debt to whoever funded his gamble.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: oldhill_avfc on July 23, 2018, 06:41:07 PM
Paying off the mortgages is obviously good news but maybe does add some validity to what the guy from etorro was saying on talk sport today.

Basically we took a hit financially when we got relegated by devaluing our land and properties etc. He reckoned we could re appraise those values at a higher market value. Thus increasing our profitability and sustainability which is the EFL's version of what everyone is calling FFP.

Wouldn't be too much of a surprise to find the press etc had sensationalized our impending doom a bit. 

The £40 million hole in FFP figure continues to be quoted by all and sundry without much basis.

If anyone wants to go over it again the assumptions/calculations were on the Swissramble twitter posts.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 23, 2018, 06:47:33 PM
Paying off the mortgages is obviously good news but maybe does add some validity to what the guy from etorro was saying on talk sport today.

Basically we took a hit financially when we got relegated by devaluing our land and properties etc. He reckoned we could re appraise those values at a higher market value. Thus increasing our profitability and sustainability which is the EFL's version of what everyone is calling FFP.

Wouldn't be too much of a surprise to find the press etc had sensationalized our impending doom a bit. 
Herein lies the truth. Its seems that Dr T was hiding behind ffp.

He didn't lie about it, he said it was something we needed to deal with and that we'd need to do things differently going forward. What he didn't do was pass comment on the £40m figure that was being bandied about so the number just got accepted as definitive but it all seems to have come from 1 blog post.  I think not addressing that was almost certainly done to avoid tough questions though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on July 23, 2018, 06:47:58 PM
Good read, this https://www.wsj.com/articles/wesley-edens-is-an-investor-with-an-affinity-for-the-underdog-1532111122


Can anyone copy and paste the article by any chance?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villafirst on July 23, 2018, 06:56:35 PM
Apparently, we now have the third richest owners in all English Football. Staggering wealth Sawiris and Edens have....
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 23, 2018, 06:58:17 PM
It all feels too good to be true... who are the two richest then?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 23, 2018, 06:59:30 PM
It all feels too good to be true... who are the two richest then?

Man City & Putin.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 23, 2018, 07:03:23 PM
Esteemed company then.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 23, 2018, 07:26:49 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?

Companies House (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00046572/charges)

Why do we own a semi-detached house in Great Barr? Still, we own it out right now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 23, 2018, 07:41:41 PM
We now own Villa Park, a Manor House, a farm, loads of land and a semi-detached outright.

Presumably this will stem some losses and once the revaluation has taken place, charge free, we can dispose of some it for profit? Keep Villa Park obviously. And the farm for McCormack and Micah.

But with an injection to clear the mortgages, we solve some of the loss making (a small amount I would imagine), re-value to decrease significant losses and dispose of some for profit.

Why wasn't this considered before, unless FFP was convenient mask for an absence of working capital?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smoke on July 23, 2018, 07:47:43 PM
Profitability was the word.

If your house doubled in value overnight you wouldn't make any profit until you sell it, you would however be in a more financially stable position without selling.


Edit. Oh you've deleted your post now. Wish I'd quoted.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 23, 2018, 07:51:10 PM
Me? Ive just added to it bud.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smoke on July 23, 2018, 07:52:46 PM
Nah not you.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 23, 2018, 07:52:54 PM
Someone else made a post and then deleted it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on July 23, 2018, 07:56:24 PM
I thought I'd been quick enough!! ;)

Under normal circumstances upwards revaluations don't create an income statement impact, but if it's a reversal of a previous downward revaluation then it might. I'm not close enough to the FFP regs to know if that's an allowable profit though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 23, 2018, 07:57:34 PM
We see everything.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on July 23, 2018, 08:09:09 PM
We see everything.

Oh bugger!!  I'd better pout my pants back on then!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 23, 2018, 08:16:59 PM
I thought I'd been quick enough!! ;)

Under normal circumstances upwards revaluations don't create an income statement impact, but if it's a reversal of a previous downward revaluation then it might. I'm not close enough to the FFP regs to know if that's an allowable profit though.

It seems (according to Matt Scott) that it's exclusion from FFP took place under Premier League FFP where our permitted losses were £105m. We'd have, with its inclusion, lost £109m so would have been unlikely to be sanctioned. This gives us scope to revalue.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 23, 2018, 08:30:16 PM
I'm very confused.

Can someone advise which of the following is true, please?

(a) we are still in the shit because of FFP and have to sell off Grealish and probably others just to avoid punishment. Signing players is a virtual impossibility.

(b) we still provably need to sell Grealish but, so long as we don't get completely ripped off on the price, we are basically fine.

(c) we don't even need to sell anyone, all our worries are over, we can sign who we like, Bono is dead, the sleeves are going to be dyed blue and they're making a new series of The Thick Of It. Everything is great.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Fred Crump on July 23, 2018, 08:37:12 PM
I'm very confused.

Can someone advise which of the following is true, please?

(a) we are still in the shit because of FFP and have to sell off Grealish and probably others just to avoid punishment. Signing players is a virtual impossibility.

(b) we still provably need to sell Grealish but, so long as we don't get completely ripped off on the price, we are basically fine.

(c) we don't even need to sell anyone, all our worries are over, we can sign who we like, Bono is dead, the sleeves are going to be dyed blue and they're making a new series of The Thick Of It. Everything is great.

Sorry , I don’t know but I really really hope it’s c.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 23, 2018, 08:38:44 PM
Paying off the mortgages is obviously good news but maybe does add some validity to what the guy from etorro was saying on talk sport today.

Basically we took a hit financially when we got relegated by devaluing our land and properties etc. He reckoned we could re appraise those values at a higher market value. Thus increasing our profitability and sustainability which is the EFL's version of what everyone is calling FFP.

Wouldn't be too much of a surprise to find the press etc had sensationalized our impending doom a bit. 

The £40 million hole in FFP figure continues to be quoted by all and sundry without much basis.

If anyone wants to go over it again the assumptions/calculations were on the Swissramble twitter posts.

Noooooooooooooooo!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Matt Collins on July 23, 2018, 08:43:37 PM
I thought I'd been quick enough!! ;)

Under normal circumstances upwards revaluations don't create an income statement impact, but if it's a reversal of a previous downward revaluation then it might. I'm not close enough to the FFP regs to know if that's an allowable profit though.

It seems (according to Matt Scott) that it's exclusion from FFP took place under Premier League FFP where our permitted losses were £105m. We'd have, with its inclusion, lost £109m so would have been unlikely to be sanctioned. This gives us scope to revalue.

He seems to have revised his opinion
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 23, 2018, 08:45:37 PM
He does haha!

Seems that the exclusion rule is automatically included.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on July 23, 2018, 08:46:14 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?

Companies House (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00046572/charges)
Not sure if I’m understanding these right, but it seems there was a mortgage against Villa Park?!

Yeh looks like it. Blimey interesting reading all that....lots of premises with mortgages, maybe players or clients temporary premises ? Anyway, lots of cash paid off today om about 20 outstanding loans.....promising start
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 23, 2018, 08:59:01 PM
We've owned a house in Great Barr since the 1930s. A farmhouse in Warwickshire (Randy's gaff?), mortgage on B6 since the 1950s. Quite a lot on the portfolio.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 23, 2018, 09:18:04 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?

Companies House (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00046572/charges)

Why do we own a semi-detached house in Great Barr? Still, we own it out right now.

It’s Dougs modest three bed link detached that we rent to him for £1 a year.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 23, 2018, 09:28:22 PM
So then we know we own loads of property.  Are we saying as they are now mortgage free we can revalue them on the fixed asset line of the balance sheet and reduce losses? I thought they would show their true valuation anyway?  Or am I missing something?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 23, 2018, 10:19:23 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?

Companies House (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00046572/charges)

Why do we own a semi-detached house in Great Barr? Still, we own it out right now.

No that’s the bloke who was going to buy us from Doug. He’s moved out from his ma’s gaff in Harborne to his own place in Great Barr.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 23, 2018, 10:41:36 PM
I thought I'd been quick enough!! ;)

Under normal circumstances upwards revaluations don't create an income statement impact, but if it's a reversal of a previous downward revaluation then it might. I'm not close enough to the FFP regs to know if that's an allowable profit though.

The property is all contained within "Investment Property" and is recorded at Fair Value.  Any increases or decreases in value would hit the P&L.  The Fair Value in 2016 was £36.8m.  There was then impairment of £2.6m, taking the  fair value down to £34.2m at 31 May 17.  Unless there's been a dramatic change in something in 2018, I can't see why there'd suddenly be a huge upward shift in value?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 23, 2018, 10:47:39 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?

Companies House (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00046572/charges)

Why do we own a semi-detached house in Great Barr? Still, we own it out right now.

No that’s the bloke who was going to buy us from Doug. He’s moved out from his ma’s gaff in Harborne to his own place in Great Barr.

Michael Neville ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on July 23, 2018, 10:51:56 PM
I thought I'd been quick enough!! ;)

Under normal circumstances upwards revaluations don't create an income statement impact, but if it's a reversal of a previous downward revaluation then it might. I'm not close enough to the FFP regs to know if that's an allowable profit though.

The property is all contained within "Investment Property" and is recorded at Fair Value.  Any increases or decreases in value would hit the P&L.  The Fair Value in 2016 was £36.8m.  There was then impairment of £2.6m, taking the  fair value down to £34.2m at 31 May 17.  Unless there's been a dramatic change in something in 2018, I can't see why there'd suddenly be a huge upward shift in value?



I have a property in my company that I rent out.  When I discuss its value every year my accountant  asks me has the value increased or not ?  To a certain degree I get the impression I can up it if I choose to ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 23, 2018, 10:53:38 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?

Companies House (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00046572/charges)

Why do we own a semi-detached house in Great Barr? Still, we own it out right now.

No that’s the bloke who was going to buy us from Doug. He’s moved out from his ma’s gaff in Harborne to his own place in Great Barr.

I remember seeing that interview he gave outside his house in Dorridge. My main feeling was one of sinking realisation that he lived in the sort of house my parents could realistically afford.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 23, 2018, 10:57:27 PM
Wasn't one of the reasons we lost so much, final PL season I think, to do with property values or am I imagining that?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 23, 2018, 10:59:14 PM
I thought I'd been quick enough!! ;)

Under normal circumstances upwards revaluations don't create an income statement impact, but if it's a reversal of a previous downward revaluation then it might. I'm not close enough to the FFP regs to know if that's an allowable profit though.

The property is all contained within "Investment Property" and is recorded at Fair Value.  Any increases or decreases in value would hit the P&L.  The Fair Value in 2016 was £36.8m.  There was then impairment of £2.6m, taking the  fair value down to £34.2m at 31 May 17.  Unless there's been a dramatic change in something in 2018, I can't see why there'd suddenly be a huge upward shift in value?



I have a property in my company that I rent out.  When I discuss its value every year my accountant  asks me has the value increased or not ?  To a certain degree I get the impression I can up it if I choose to ?


Fair Value has to be a realistic market value.  So investment property valuation is usually undertaken by a professional firm of surveyors for example.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 23, 2018, 11:00:45 PM
Wasn't one of the reasons we lost so much, final PL season I think, to do with property values or am I imagining that?

No, there was a big impairment review as the value of an asset is also based on its ability to generate a profit, so dropping a division played a big part in that. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 23, 2018, 11:07:12 PM
I've just had a look at the Villa thread on that lot.com (easily the biggest thread on there, as you'd expect).

Jesus Christ, what a bunch of drooling morons.

Quote
Glad you've finally admitted it. But just to give it a bit more context, I'd argue that Leeds United are every bit as big as vile yet they didn't get this level of spawniness thoughout their last 15 years of struggle. If you're going by history, then both Sheffield clubs are arguably on a par too, yet they've endured decades of being shat on, including dropping into the third tier more than once. So to suggest that a "bigger club than Blues" can't be expected to drop neck deep into the brown stuff is simply not true, as demonstrated by that trio of Yorkshire clubs. You might add Sunderland to that list too. So it really wasn't the stuff of fantasy to hope vile would go the same way, but then of course they predictably found a way out of it before any of the fun could truly begin. Spawny bastards, as usual.

And that's nothing like the most witless post there.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 23, 2018, 11:13:13 PM
Yes, we've been so fucking lucky these last few years.  The unbelievably spawny 8-0 defeat against Chelsea, the against-all-the-odds pure fortune relegation, the brilliant luck to sign the likes of Richards and McCormack, and most recently the fantastically undserved luck in the Play Off final.  Bunch of six fingered slum dwelling twats.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 23, 2018, 11:13:40 PM
Of course they are. They really are simpletons.

Champions of England
Aston Villa 7 Sheffield clubs combined 5

FA Cup wins
Aston Villa 7 Sheffield clubs combined 7

League Cup wins
Aston Villa 5 Sheffield clubs combined 1

European Cup wins
Aston Villa 1 Sheffield clubs combined 0
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LukeJames on July 23, 2018, 11:21:44 PM
I haven't had a clue what to make of whats gone on with us over the past couple of months or how the new owners and FFP will affect us etc, i'll head over to SHA later to get a better understanding of it all.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 23, 2018, 11:28:59 PM
Their obsession with us doesn't bother me, it's kind of flattering in a 'having an obsessed stalker' kind of way. What I find bizarre is the amount of utter garbage they make up and try and peddle. And it's that so many of them are so fucking thick that they believe it. And even the few that are bright enough to know it's bollocks still peddle it such is their desperation to put one 'ova da Vile'. Such a sad and weird bunch.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 23, 2018, 11:35:31 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?

Companies House (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00046572/charges)

Why do we own a semi-detached house in Great Barr? Still, we own it out right now.

No that’s the bloke who was going to buy us from Doug. He’s moved out from his ma’s gaff in Harborne to his own place in Great Barr.

I remember seeing that interview he gave outside his house in Dorridge. My main feeling was one of sinking realisation that he lived in the sort of house my parents could realistically afford.

It really was massively depressing as he stood outside and spoke to the media. Just thinking exactly that my mum’s place in Stockland Green was almost as big.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 23, 2018, 11:36:26 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?

Companies House (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00046572/charges)

Why do we own a semi-detached house in Great Barr? Still, we own it out right now.

No that’s the bloke who was going to buy us from Doug. He’s moved out from his ma’s gaff in Harborne to his own place in Great Barr.

Michael Neville ?

Aye...that’s him.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 23, 2018, 11:58:20 PM
Of course they are. They really are simpletons.

Champions of England
Aston Villa 7 Sheffield clubs combined 5

FA Cup wins
Aston Villa 7 Sheffield clubs combined 7

League Cup wins
Aston Villa 5 Sheffield clubs combined 1

European Cup wins
Aston Villa 1 Sheffield clubs combined 0

Now do the Dingles, Noses and Stripeys combined...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 24, 2018, 12:00:01 AM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?

Companies House (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00046572/charges)

Why do we own a semi-detached house in Great Barr? Still, we own it out right now.

Home for some youth team players perhaps?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 24, 2018, 12:01:58 AM
Since 1936?! You're probably right!

Maybe an old players house from back in days of yore. Bobby Robson lived in Handsworth when he played for the Bitters, so there may have been a few players out them parts.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 24, 2018, 12:05:44 AM
Maybe then it wasn't but now will be. Or it's just an asset on the books.

As for comparing Sheffield clubs to Villa, they haven't had the success but they certainly have history and lots of it. There's even an app out there. 'Sheffield, Home of Football' I think it's called. It's a 4.7mile guide to historical football points in the city. And a good pub crawl...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 24, 2018, 12:06:59 AM
Champions of England
Aston Villa 7 Others 4

FA Cup wins
Aston Villa 7 Others 9

League Cup wins
Aston Villa 5 Others 5

European Cup wins
Aston Villa 1 Others 0

Atari Soccer Six
Aston Villa 0 Others 1

Once beat Honved in a friendly
Aston Villa 0 Others 1
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 24, 2018, 12:08:30 AM
Maybe then it wasn't but now will be. Or it's just an asset on the books.

As for comparing Sheffield clubs to Villa, they haven't had the success but they certainly have history and lots of it. There's even an app out there. 'Sheffield, Home of Football' I think it's called. It's a 4.7mile guide to historical football points in the city. And a good pub crawl...

No one in their right mind would deny the Sheffield clubs are good clubs, but saying they are bigger than us is just plain daft.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 24, 2018, 12:10:42 AM
Small Heath Alliance is a pretty funny read

We have paid off the mortgage on B6 so we can move to the Commonwealth Games stadium.

They're a special bunch.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 24, 2018, 12:18:04 AM
You missed a few.

Names:
Aston Villa 1 Small Heath/Alliance/Birmingham/City 4

Moral victories in a second city derby:
Aston Villa 0 Birmingham City 82

Trophies stolen:
Aston Villa 2 Others Chance would be a fine thing

Most supporters taken to an away game:
Domestic - Aston Villa 25,000 (Highbury, 1981) Birmingham City 20,000 (Villa Park, 1897-2018, all of them in the Holte End)
Europe - Aston Villa 15,000 (Rotterdam, 1982) Birmingham City The calculator broke (Bruges, 2011)

Biggest gate played in front of:
Aston Villa 121,919 (FA Cup final 1913) Birmingham City 145,000 (Leyland Daf final, 1994)





Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lsvilla on July 24, 2018, 12:25:06 AM
Small Heath Alliance is a pretty funny read

We have paid off the mortgage on B6 so we can move to the Commonwealth Games stadium.

They're a special bunch.
That’s genius - well done to whoever came up with that one.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SirSteveUK on July 24, 2018, 02:07:15 AM
Apparently the property at Middleton Hall may have been Sir Willie Dugdales - dont know if true
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on July 24, 2018, 05:50:50 AM
I thought I'd been quick enough!! ;)

Under normal circumstances upwards revaluations don't create an income statement impact, but if it's a reversal of a previous downward revaluation then it might. I'm not close enough to the FFP regs to know if that's an allowable profit though.

The property is all contained within "Investment Property" and is recorded at Fair Value.  Any increases or decreases in value would hit the P&L.  The Fair Value in 2016 was £36.8m.  There was then impairment of £2.6m, taking the  fair value down to £34.2m at 31 May 17.  Unless there's been a dramatic change in something in 2018, I can't see why there'd suddenly be a huge upward shift in value?

Agreed.

But the the revaluation being referred to by Smoke was reversing some of the impairment of PPE we took on relegation.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: GarTomas on July 24, 2018, 07:21:20 AM
You missed a few.

Names:
Aston Villa 1 Small Heath/Alliance/Birmingham/City 4

Moral victories in a second city derby:
Aston Villa 0 Birmingham City 82

Trophies stolen:
Aston Villa 2 Others Chance would be a fine thing

Most supporters taken to an away game:
Domestic - Aston Villa 25,000 (Highbury, 1981) Birmingham City 20,000 (Villa Park, 1897-2018, all of them in the Holte End)
Europe - Aston Villa 15,000 (Rotterdam, 1982) Birmingham City The calculator broke (Bruges, 2011)

Biggest gate played in front of:
Aston Villa 121,919 (FA Cup final 1913) Birmingham City 145,000 (Leyland Daf final, 1994)

Superb work.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SashasGrandad on July 24, 2018, 08:17:11 AM
Small Heath Alliance is a pretty funny read

We have paid off the mortgage on B6 so we can move to the Commonwealth Games stadium.

They're a special bunch.
That’s genius - well done to whoever came up with that one.

The Alexander Stadium will not be used for football after the Commonwealth Games - it will be a specialist Athletics stadium - there are special agreements with the host club (Birchfield Harriers) that prohibit a change of use - a bit like the Villa Trust have.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 24, 2018, 08:20:14 AM
Small Heath Alliance is a pretty funny read

We have paid off the mortgage on B6 so we can move to the Commonwealth Games stadium.

They're a special bunch.

Not quite as good as the loon who said Harlie Dean is better than James Chester.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Laughing Policeman on July 24, 2018, 08:46:53 AM
Of course they are. They really are simpletons.

Champions of England
Aston Villa 7 Sheffield clubs combined 5

FA Cup wins
Aston Villa 7 Sheffield clubs combined 7

League Cup wins
Aston Villa 5 Sheffield clubs combined 1

European Cup wins
Aston Villa 1 Sheffield clubs combined 0
South Yorks Old Bill have held the European Cup longer than either of the Sheffield clubs. ;D
http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/sheffield/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_8711000/8711259.stm
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 24, 2018, 10:49:10 AM
Maybe then it wasn't but now will be. Or it's just an asset on the books.

As for comparing Sheffield clubs to Villa, they haven't had the success but they certainly have history and lots of it. There's even an app out there. 'Sheffield, Home of Football' I think it's called. It's a 4.7mile guide to historical football points in the city. And a good pub crawl...

No one in their right mind would deny the Sheffield clubs are good clubs, but saying they are bigger than us is just plain daft.

Oh god there's no way on Earth they are bigger than us. Just good clubs, good support and good history. They shouldn't be put down in the way our illustrious neighbours should.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on July 24, 2018, 11:10:24 AM
Maybe then it wasn't but now will be. Or it's just an asset on the books.

As for comparing Sheffield clubs to Villa, they haven't had the success but they certainly have history and lots of it. There's even an app out there. 'Sheffield, Home of Football' I think it's called. It's a 4.7mile guide to historical football points in the city. And a good pub crawl...

No one in their right mind would deny the Sheffield clubs are good clubs, but saying they are bigger than us is just plain daft.

Oh god there's no way on Earth they are bigger than us. Just good clubs, good support and good history. They shouldn't be put down in the way our illustrious neighbours should.

they are probably bigger in the making of quality knives and forks though
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dr Butler on July 24, 2018, 11:50:05 AM
Small Heath Alliance is a pretty funny read

We have paid off the mortgage on B6 so we can move to the Commonwealth Games stadium.

They're a special bunch.

Not quite as good as the loon who said Harlie Dean is better than James Chester.

apologies for my idiocy Clampy, but who the hell is Harlie Dean ?

UTV
The Doc
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on July 24, 2018, 11:51:45 AM
Maybe then it wasn't but now will be. Or it's just an asset on the books.

As for comparing Sheffield clubs to Villa, they haven't had the success but they certainly have history and lots of it. There's even an app out there. 'Sheffield, Home of Football' I think it's called. It's a 4.7mile guide to historical football points in the city. And a good pub crawl...

No one in their right mind would deny the Sheffield clubs are good clubs, but saying they are bigger than us is just plain daft.

Oh god there's no way on Earth they are bigger than us. Just good clubs, good support and good history. They shouldn't be put down in the way our illustrious neighbours should.

they are probably bigger in the making of quality knives and forks though

It still makes me laugh from 1991 Sheff U away bus to the ground from the station “ you can stick your stainless steel up your arse”
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 24, 2018, 12:07:04 PM
Maybe then it wasn't but now will be. Or it's just an asset on the books.

As for comparing Sheffield clubs to Villa, they haven't had the success but they certainly have history and lots of it. There's even an app out there. 'Sheffield, Home of Football' I think it's called. It's a 4.7mile guide to historical football points in the city. And a good pub crawl...

No one in their right mind would deny the Sheffield clubs are good clubs, but saying they are bigger than us is just plain daft.

Oh god there's no way on Earth they are bigger than us. Just good clubs, good support and good history. They shouldn't be put down in the way our illustrious neighbours should.

I'm planning to do the tour but with a couple of slight route alterations to pick up some pubs...

The following is taken from this page. (https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/homeoffootball)

"Between 1857 and 1889 Sheffield had 95 football clubs and the app explores locations associated with these early clubs and the development of the modern game. While visiting ten stops over the 4.7 mile walk you will be introduced to the places and people that made Sheffield the home of Association football.

The app includes audio commentaries, so you can listen as you walk or simply sit and enjoy in your armchair from anywhere in the world.

As you reach key points along the walk content in the app will be triggered automatically. You can also follow your location on an 1855 map, giving you a sense of what Sheffield was like at that time."
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 24, 2018, 12:18:45 PM
A very dangerous walk in 1855 I would have thought. i went to college in Sheffield and it was very dodgy 125 years later
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on July 24, 2018, 12:18:45 PM
Apparently the property at Middleton Hall may have been Sir Willie Dugdales - dont know if true

It was owned by the Peel family who were big around Tamworth and were instrumental in forming the London Met Police force. It’s was most recently owned by Tarmac along with the quarry behind it and I believe, it transferred to the RSPB when they filled in the lakes and turned it into a wildlife sanctuary. I don’t remember reading or hearing anything about the Dugdales having an interest. I think they were more over toward Nuneaton where they owned Daw Mill colliery and a lot of the rest of the county.

As an aside the works next to it to move the Villa training pitches are coming along at a cracking pace.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 24, 2018, 01:09:21 PM
Sir William owned Merevale Hall near Atherstone and was born near Coleshill . That's how David Cameron became a Villa fan, or so the story goes. As a boy he visited the Hall quite regularly, I think through some family connection.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Laughing Policeman on July 24, 2018, 01:20:58 PM
Isn't Cameron Sir Bills nephew?
Feel sorry for Bill having a flat faced tw*t like Cameron for a nephew.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dave P on July 24, 2018, 01:27:31 PM
Of course they are. They really are simpletons.

Champions of England
Aston Villa 7 Sheffield clubs combined 5

FA Cup wins
Aston Villa 7 Sheffield clubs combined 7

League Cup wins
Aston Villa 5 Sheffield clubs combined 1

European Cup wins
Aston Villa 1 Sheffield clubs combined 0

Imagine how different these figures would be if you did Birmingham clubs combined v Sheffield club combined?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: MoetVillan on July 24, 2018, 01:43:49 PM
Of course they are. They really are simpletons.

Champions of England
Aston Villa 7 Sheffield clubs combined 5

FA Cup wins
Aston Villa 7 Sheffield clubs combined 7

League Cup wins
Aston Villa 5 Sheffield clubs combined 1

European Cup wins
Aston Villa 1 Sheffield clubs combined 0

Imagine how different these figures would be if you did Birmingham clubs combined v Sheffield club combined?


I can’t imagine anyone being more thrilled than being combined with another Sheffield club than a Wednesday or S United fan respectively. Haven’t Leeds won more than Sheffield anyway? So not even most successful town in their county?!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 24, 2018, 01:44:19 PM
There'd be one extra novelty ashtray in out combined trophy cabinet courtesy of Barca.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 24, 2018, 01:48:40 PM
They're not in the same county but, in any case, Wednesday have won one more major honour than Leeds, eight-seven. Sheffield United have won five.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 24, 2018, 02:55:31 PM
There'd be one extra novelty ashtray in out combined trophy cabinet courtesy of Barca.

The only change would be 7-5 to us in League Cups.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 24, 2018, 03:29:06 PM
There'd be one extra novelty ashtray in out combined trophy cabinet courtesy of Barca.

The only change would be 7-5 to us in League Cups.

And an Auto Windscreen Trophy and Leyland DAF Cup.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 24, 2018, 03:32:44 PM
Though Sheffield would have a Community Shield and a Sheriff of London Charity Shield....
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dave P on July 24, 2018, 03:36:04 PM
There'd be one extra novelty ashtray in out combined trophy cabinet courtesy of Barca.

The only change would be 7-5 to us in League Cups.

That was the joke to be fair!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 24, 2018, 04:39:42 PM
As was mine.

We played Barca and we put the Super Cup in our trophy cabinet. They played them and put an ashtray in theirs.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 24, 2018, 05:32:55 PM
As was mine.

We played Barca and we put the Super Cup in our trophy cabinet. They played them and put an ashtray in theirs.

Yep, a runners-up ash tray.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: b23 on July 24, 2018, 06:12:12 PM
They're not in the same county but, in any case, Wednesday have won one more major honour than Leeds, eight-seven. Sheffield United have won five.

From a proud Yorkshire man, i can assure you that Leeds and Sheffield are still both in the same County.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: MoetVillan on July 24, 2018, 06:28:36 PM
They're not in the same county but, in any case, Wednesday have won one more major honour than Leeds, eight-seven. Sheffield United have won five.

From a proud Yorkshire man, i can assure you that Leeds and Sheffield are still both in the same County.

I did do a double take
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: thick_mike on July 24, 2018, 06:57:30 PM
They're not in the same county but, in any case, Wednesday have won one more major honour than Leeds, eight-seven. Sheffield United have won five.

From a proud Yorkshire man, i can assure you that Leeds and Sheffield are still both in the same County.

I did do a double take

Sheffield is South Yorkshire and Leeds is West Yorkshire is it not?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: adrenachrome on July 24, 2018, 07:28:40 PM
They're not in the same county but, in any case, Wednesday have won one more major honour than Leeds, eight-seven. Sheffield United have won five.

From a proud Yorkshire man, i can assure you that Leeds and Sheffield are still both in the same County.

I did do a double take

Sheffield is South Yorkshire and Leeds is West Yorkshire is it not?

And Birmingham is not in Warwickshire. Go tell it to the Marines. And the members of Warwickshire CCC, many of whom are on this board, and would take a dim view of such  a proposition.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: b23 on July 24, 2018, 07:44:35 PM
They're not in the same county but, in any case, Wednesday have won one more major honour than Leeds, eight-seven. Sheffield United have won five.

From a proud Yorkshire man, i can assure you that Leeds and Sheffield are still both in the same County.

I did do a double take

Sheffield is South Yorkshire and Leeds is West Yorkshire is it not?


http://www.yorkshireridings.org/news/yorkshire-map.html

This map shows that Leeds and Sheffield are both in the West Riding.

It's all Yorkshire to me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 24, 2018, 07:50:02 PM
They're not in the same county but, in any case, Wednesday have won one more major honour than Leeds, eight-seven. Sheffield United have won five.

From a proud Yorkshire man, i can assure you that Leeds and Sheffield are still both in the same County.

I was technically correct, you have to concede. I do use the term "Yorkshire" myself so understand what you mean.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 24, 2018, 08:07:22 PM
Champions of England
Aston Villa 7 Others 4

FA Cup wins
Aston Villa 7 Others 9

League Cup wins
Aston Villa 5 Others 5

European Cup wins
Aston Villa 1 Others 0

Atari Soccer Six
Aston Villa 0 Others 1

Once beat Honved in a friendly
Aston Villa 0 Others 1


To be fair Small Heath have won as many doubles as we have. Although ours was the traditional double of First Division title and FA Cup and their's was the Third Division title and Auto Windscreens shield.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on July 25, 2018, 01:17:49 PM
Well, they are at Villa Park now.

I hope they love what they see.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 25, 2018, 01:20:27 PM
Well, they are at Villa Park now.

I hope they love what they see.

Apart from the North Stand, which they should demolish and replace, everything else is beautiful.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on July 25, 2018, 01:44:27 PM
Could you imagine buying it and THEN going to actually see it - what a wonderful experience that would be - now imagine the owners of the  Dog shit doing the same thing  ;D ;D

Interestingly Simon Jordan today on TS said that he knew of several ways that we could skirt around any FFP issues and that anyone with our new owners business acumen they would have had all this sussed before they even discussed the price

lets hope so
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Towser on July 25, 2018, 01:46:58 PM
Interesting that Sawiris is listed on Companies House as Belgian
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: jwarry on July 25, 2018, 01:57:20 PM
Interesting that Sawiris is listed on Companies House as Belgian

And that Ho and Gu have been unceremoniously dumped
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 25, 2018, 02:05:48 PM
Interesting that Sawiris is listed on Companies House as Belgian

And that Ho and Gu have been unceremoniously dumped

I think that proves Xia will be bought out in the coming months.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Duncan Shaw on July 25, 2018, 02:09:50 PM
Interesting that Sawiris is listed on Companies House as Belgian

And that Ho and Gu have been unceremoniously dumped
Feel a bit sorry for Ho to be honest, he was massivley over promoted and lived the dream as a fan, and probably did a fair bit to keep the lights on over the last few weeks.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 25, 2018, 02:11:35 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Di8xe4gW0AAk1JP.jpg)

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on July 25, 2018, 02:18:37 PM
Interesting that Sawiris is listed on Companies House as Belgian

And that Ho and Gu have been unceremoniously dumped
Feel a bit sorry for Ho to be honest, he was massivley over promoted and lived the dream as a fan, and probably did a fair bit to keep the lights on over the last few weeks.

well hey ho that's football
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 25, 2018, 02:20:40 PM
Interesting that Sawiris is listed on Companies House as Belgian

And that Ho and Gu have been unceremoniously dumped
Feel a bit sorry for Ho to be honest, he was massivley over promoted and lived the dream as a fan, and probably did a fair bit to keep the lights on over the last few weeks.

well hey ho that's football

That's the championship Companies House!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 25, 2018, 02:24:04 PM
Interesting that Sawiris is listed on Companies House as Belgian

And that Ho and Gu have been unceremoniously dumped
Feel a bit sorry for Ho to be honest, he was massivley over promoted and lived the dream as a fan, and probably did a fair bit to keep the lights on over the last few weeks.

He Ho.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Olneythelonely on July 25, 2018, 02:25:03 PM
They look like guys about the give someone a right good sacking.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Confusious says on July 25, 2018, 02:56:55 PM
They do look like they mean business & can sack someone, Ho has
already got the Heave Ho!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 25, 2018, 03:03:10 PM
They look like two blokes in suits. One has a very big nose.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 25, 2018, 03:06:07 PM
They look like two blokes in suits. One has a very big nose.

It's not me!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on July 25, 2018, 03:07:55 PM
Edens has a "retired 80s / 90s footballer on soccer saturday" look about him in that photo.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Smith on July 25, 2018, 03:10:17 PM
Edens has a "retired 80s / 90s footballer on soccer saturday" look about him in that photo.

The other one could be Mr Bean.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VillaAlways on July 25, 2018, 03:47:39 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/villareport/status/1022130228439801857
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Olneythelonely on July 25, 2018, 03:51:32 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/villareport/status/1022130228439801857

Some sexy gate action there. If you like your gates, like I do.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on July 25, 2018, 03:55:19 PM
Had he gone around to the front to get the keys?

It looks like they were all standing around waiting for someone to let them in.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on July 25, 2018, 04:00:16 PM
With all their money what an awful suit  ???
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 25, 2018, 04:05:04 PM
With all their money what an awful suit  ???

Oh shit. How about the shoes?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 25, 2018, 04:10:22 PM
With all their money what an awful suit  ???

From the back I am pretty sure the guy in the silver grey suit is Swiss Toni from The Fast Show.

"Buying a football club is like making love to a beautiful woman".
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Herman on July 25, 2018, 04:48:23 PM
Looks like that chap has been to Brum before, in around 1981 when he bought that suit from Nelson House. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 25, 2018, 04:55:00 PM
Suits plus two for £100
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 25, 2018, 04:56:27 PM
Looks like that chap has been to Brum before, in around 1981 when he bought that suit from Nelson House. 

2 for £99.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 25, 2018, 04:57:58 PM
They are off to Pagoda Park tonight.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nev on July 25, 2018, 05:09:36 PM
Looks like Rodney Marsh.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brackley on July 25, 2018, 05:13:27 PM
The bloke needs a style guru and a good haircut.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: clash city rocker on July 25, 2018, 05:19:15 PM
The bloke needs a style guru and a good haircut.

Nah....he just needs  a good football manager.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 25, 2018, 05:26:36 PM
Looks like a Doug Stanhope suit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Randy Gurner on July 25, 2018, 05:36:50 PM
Ciro Citterio
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nev on July 25, 2018, 05:43:05 PM
Sergio Georgini
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: garyshawsknee on July 25, 2018, 05:44:29 PM
Ciro Citterio

Didn't John Gregory sign him ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on July 25, 2018, 05:50:46 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Di8xe4gW0AAk1JP.jpg)


Is that Obama on the left? - Edens is obviously well connected.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Godfrey Brian on July 25, 2018, 06:11:25 PM
Nelson Road- backdrop to history.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 25, 2018, 06:14:54 PM
You beat me too it GB.  Nelson Road's place in the Villa Pantheon.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: IFWaters on July 25, 2018, 06:44:43 PM
Seems the term 'majority owners' will be seen a lot now. He Ho and Tracy Gu removed from the board, his eyes and ears over here, means I think that he basically will sell his remaining stake on promotion for a pre-agreed amount. I dont think we will hear much, if anything from Dr Tone now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Moose on July 25, 2018, 06:45:03 PM
And Grealish? FFP?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 25, 2018, 07:09:57 PM
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on July 25, 2018, 07:51:04 PM
It's a tricky one to gauge re their decision-making on this. If the opportunity to invest happened quickly, perhaps they thought that the due diligence required before making choices on manager would necessitate more time. And I can imagine they also thought "Let's meet with the incumbent manager, and see what he has to say" which surely is only respectful and right. Fortunately for Bruce, his soft skills are one of his assets so I can imagine him giving a good account of himself. If they're happy for us to have a stable season without worrying about a promotion challenge, he will have been able to sail through the meeting. If they said they expected the team to be challenging, a bit of waffle from Bruce may have saved him.
Henry would have been a big experiment for both parties, I don't think he's done enough to deserve to manage us. So, as much as Bruce's football frustrates me, I can understand his staying on and I just hope he hits on gold; accidentially or otherwise through promoting youth - one of his hitherto key failings and sourcing good loans from his book of contacts - one of his key strengths.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on July 25, 2018, 08:15:40 PM
Is Nas playing with his chequebook in that interview ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 25, 2018, 08:41:36 PM
Edens= Rodney Marsh on acid :)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on July 25, 2018, 08:44:12 PM
Edens= Rodney Marsh on acid :')

Please don't mention that one-eyed, deaf c**t on here please, I'd forgotten about him until that.  Marsh that is.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 25, 2018, 11:12:01 PM
Edens= Rodney Marsh on acid :')

Please don't mention that one-eyed, deaf c**t on here please, I'd forgotten about him until that.  Marsh that is.

He's also the last person you'd want to be around if you were on acid.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: adrenachrome on July 26, 2018, 01:35:07 AM
Edens= Rodney Marsh on acid :')

Please don't mention that one-eyed, deaf c**t on here please, I'd forgotten about him until that.  Marsh that is.

He's also the last person you'd want to be around if you were on acid.

I am sorry to say, from personal experience,  that there are plenty of worse people to be around than laughing cockney wide boy Wodney when undergoing a bum trip, man. Many of them were at the University of Warwick circa 1976 in the year of Our Lord.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 26, 2018, 07:06:44 AM
far out, man. The first newsroom I worked in was like that all the time.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on July 26, 2018, 08:35:16 AM
Still no Edens registration in companies house
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 26, 2018, 09:44:05 AM
With a name like Edens Bruce must have been worried about being put on gardening leave.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hillbilly on July 27, 2018, 02:02:58 PM
Just struck me that Edens looks like Spinal Tap’s erstwhile manager, Ian Faith.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 27, 2018, 02:07:38 PM
I think that character was based on Peter Grant, Led Zeppelin's manager
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 27, 2018, 02:09:39 PM
Just struck me that Edens looks like Spinal Tap’s erstwhile manager, Ian Faith.

Before Edens was part of a takeover our future looked black. How much more black could it have looked? The answer is none. None more black.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 27, 2018, 04:07:12 PM
 Sawiris mentioned his investment in a company called Bruins Sports Capital in his interview.
Well worth having a read about them.

I can’t believe we’ve got these two guys behind us.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: oldtimernow on July 27, 2018, 04:22:02 PM
We should rename Villa Park, Fortress Villa Park and Wes could write a cheque  to cover it ergo FFP sorted
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 27, 2018, 05:47:55 PM
Sawiris mentioned his investment in a company called Bruins Sports Capital in his interview.
Well worth having a read about them.

I can’t believe we’ve got these two guys behind us.

Got a link? Not much on Bloomberg.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 27, 2018, 05:48:24 PM
We should rename Villa Park, Fortress Villa Park and Wes could write a cheque  to cover it ergo FFP sorted

He’s sold Fortress hasn’t he?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 27, 2018, 06:02:27 PM
Sawiris mentioned his investment in a company called Bruins Sports Capital in his interview.
Well worth having a read about them.

I can’t believe we’ve got these two guys behind us.

Got a link? Not much on Bloomberg.

https://bruinsportscapital.com/about/

More about the guy who runs it on YouTube. He was largely responsible for NASCAR'S success.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kipeye on July 27, 2018, 06:12:18 PM
Just struck me that Edens looks like Spinal Tap’s erstwhile manager, Ian Faith.

Before Edens was part of a takeover our future looked black. How much more black could it have looked? The answer is none. None more black.
Our black goes up to 11.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 28, 2018, 11:37:19 PM
Moxley - Mirror.

Jack Grealish transfer: Blow for bargain-hunting Tottenham as Aston Villa's new owners BLOCK summer exit

EXCLUSIVE: Gamble on driving down financially-stricken club's asking price fails after billionaire completes swift takeover

22:30, 28 JUL 2018Updated22:54, 28 JUL 2018
Spurs' dithering over Jack Grealish’s £20million transfer from Aston Villa has backfired.

Tottenham chairman Daniel Levy has come a cropper after his waiting game for the former England Under-21 international midfielder has blown up in his face.

Levy gambled on driving down the sale price due to Villa’s financial woes — only for a staggering five-day sale of the Championship club late last week to turn the process on its head. And now those new owners have blocked Grealish’s exit.

Egyptian billionaire Nassef Sawaris and American Wes Edens have a combined wealth of £40billion, making them the third richest owners in English football.

They immediately pumped in cash to prevent Villa from falling into administration — and now they’ve told Grealish he’s going nowhere.


Grealish is now set to stay at Villa and help their latest promotion push (Image: PA Wire)
That will come as a major blow to Spurs, who had put in plenty of groundwork convincing the playmaker that his future lay at the new White Hart Lane.

A Villa source said: “Spurs could have pushed the button on this two weeks ago before the takeover. They didn’t. And now the owners have said that neither he, nor James Chester is going anywhere.

“They want to build Villa. That’s not going to happen by selling the club’s best players.”

Manager Steve Bruce was given the news at a meeting with his new bosses earlier this week.

Bruce has also had his own position confirmed amid a financial landscape that has changed dramatically within just one week.

Levy’s gamble was understandable.


A Villa source claims Levy could have done a £20m deal for Grealish a fortnight ago (Image: Getty)
Unless the takeover had taken place, Villa may well have hit a financial brick wall this week.

They has been asking £15m plus add-ons for Grealish, taking the total deal over £20m. Levy bet on them slipping deeper into trouble — and instead the opposite happened.

The odds were, however, in Spurs’ favour as Villa were staring down a barrel. Money was owed to West Brom in the form of the final £2m instalment on Wales defender Chester’s 2016 transfer, and a £4m payroll run plus cash for revenue and customs over a tax bill – also believed to be £4m – would have pushed them over the edge.

But, after an army of solicitors worked flat-out around the clock over a five-day period, the purchase of the club was pushed through in double-quick time, saving Villa — and preventing them from having to cash in on Grealish, their most valuable asset.


Villa's problems have seen a string of players leave, now Bruce needs backing to bring some in (Image: PA)
It remains to be seen how far the new owners will now back their manager as Financial Fair Play is still understood to be an issue.

Bruce has already lost six loan players since the end of the last campaign, including the likes of Robert Snodgrass and Lewis Grabban, while John Terry left as his one-year contract had expired and the club could not afford a new deal.

With the new campaign starting next weekend and the transfer window closing in less than two weeks, the Geordie needs help if he is to mount a sustainable promotion push and return Villa to the big-time this season after losing May's play-off final to Fulham.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 28, 2018, 11:41:30 PM
If master negotiator Levy has blown it I think I may find it a tad amusing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2018, 11:53:48 PM
If master negotiator Levy has blown it I think I may find it a tad amusing.

Just a bit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 28, 2018, 11:59:42 PM
If master negotiator Levy has blown it I think I may find it a tad amusing.

Just a bit.

Maybe just a smidgen.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 29, 2018, 12:13:11 AM
The big worry has to be Levy showing Jack all the trophies Spurs have won the last few years. Could turn Jack's head.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 29, 2018, 12:52:54 AM
As Ads said, that Levy bloke is a genius.

Reminds me of a direct marketing genius in the States, that tested a mailing list and got a fantastic response to sending out goldfish in a bag through the post. They rolled out a major campaign of millions but forgot about the timing - people were not impressed receiving a block of ice with a goldfish inside.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 29, 2018, 01:02:08 AM
When did I say that?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 29, 2018, 01:02:10 AM
I just love us being referred to as having the 3rd richest owners in football.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on July 29, 2018, 06:57:18 AM
It will sound better next year back in the prem
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 29, 2018, 07:32:18 AM
QPR got a £17m fine. Maybe no fucks are given.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rigadon on July 29, 2018, 08:19:53 AM
Great to see Villa finally not flogging our best players.  And doubly great that it's Spurs who have been told to go away.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Martin Carruthers on July 29, 2018, 08:37:16 AM
We should bid £15m for Kane, Erikson & Lloris.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 29, 2018, 08:38:18 AM
We should follow it up with bids for Kane, Trippier and Eriksen. Could go for Ponchettino while we’re at it.

Edit: Martin Carothers beat me to it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 29, 2018, 09:17:24 AM
cheeky £500,000 bid for Onomah ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 29, 2018, 09:18:15 AM
Christ no.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rigadon on July 29, 2018, 09:33:41 AM
Only if they're paying
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 29, 2018, 10:07:13 AM
cheeky £500,000 bid for Onomah ?
only if the spuds are paying us the £500k -just noticed Rigadon beat me to it :)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 29, 2018, 10:30:51 AM
I maintain Onomah did well on the occasions he played in his actual position. Look back to the first half of the season, he had some really good games and some key contributions. He did suffer when moved out of his position, but he’s a young player not a bad player.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on July 29, 2018, 10:46:48 AM
Moxley says "Villa's problems have seen a string of players leave".
Not exactly an exodus of leavers other than Terry and the loanees?

Bizarre.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 29, 2018, 11:04:39 AM
The addition of the word ‘loan’ would have helped that piece...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mrfuse on July 29, 2018, 12:07:46 PM
Isint that what normally happens at the end of loan deals.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Martin Carruthers on July 29, 2018, 12:28:41 PM
Gabby as well, for what it's worth.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on July 29, 2018, 12:48:57 PM
Even though Aston Villa now have 3 "billionaire" owners, I really cannot get excited about the fact.

There are no guarantees about anything in football. My worry is if they set out a plan, whether it's CL football in 5 yrs, or just to be surviving as an also-ran in the PL in 3 yrs I'm concerned that if we don't achieve the goal these people will lose interest and things will go to rack and ruin again, especially when in the everyday man's terms they probably paid (cost vs wealth) a couple of microwave ovens to buy in. Remember we got relegated under the watch of a "billionaire custodian", one whose name was sung loud and proud by many Villa fans in 2006. It doesn't matter who is in charge of the club or how rich they are. If they lose interest, if they take their eye off things, things will go downhill.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on July 29, 2018, 01:35:48 PM
That's the spirit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 29, 2018, 01:38:38 PM
My main concern is that we are going to win so many trophies, people will start to think that I'm a glory-hunter.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 29, 2018, 01:38:41 PM
It mostly doesn’t matter because of FFP.  It’s going to be difficult this season, doubly so next year when the parachute payments run out completely.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on July 29, 2018, 01:39:15 PM
That's the spirit.
Thank you.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on July 29, 2018, 01:45:11 PM
It mostly doesn’t matter because of FFP.  It’s going to be difficult this season, doubly so next year when the parachute payments run out completely.
I see FFP as a tool to keep the elite as elite (the Real Madrids, Bayerns, Juves of this world.

It's also a convenient excuse for club owners to hide behind when they can't or don't want to pay for ambition. Bournemouth were recently fined £4.75m for their activities while in the Championship three years ago (less than 1/20th of their TV/prize money for next season). QPR were hit with a £40m fine, but with the option to pay in instalments over the next ten years, I understand.

Over to the Dr and his new investors...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 29, 2018, 01:46:43 PM
The UEFA FFP is a tool to keep the elite on top. The Football League FFP is to stop teams going bust.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Iamkmkm on July 29, 2018, 01:47:22 PM
My main concern is that we are going to win so many trophies, people will start to think that I'm a glory-hunter.

The worst thing that could happen would be if we turned into a new man united, imagine villa park full of prawn sandwich eating glory hunters.
Horrible thought.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: old man villa fan on July 29, 2018, 01:54:32 PM
Even though Aston Villa now have 3 "billionaire" owners, I really cannot get excited about the fact.

There are no guarantees about anything in football. My worry is if they set out a plan, whether it's CL football in 5 yrs, or just to be surviving as an also-ran in the PL in 3 yrs I'm concerned that if we don't achieve the goal these people will lose interest and things will go to rack and ruin again, especially when in the everyday man's terms they probably paid (cost vs wealth) a couple of microwave ovens to buy in. Remember we got relegated under the watch of a "billionaire custodian", one whose name was sung loud and proud by many Villa fans in 2006. It doesn't matter who is in charge of the club or how rich they are. If they lose interest, if they take their eye off things, things will go downhill.

That is why we have to get our house in order financially and keep it that way. If we do, there will be buyers of the right kind out there. We have to lose the mentality of the owners being another group that we can use up their wealth.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 29, 2018, 02:14:36 PM
QPR had a £17m fine.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 29, 2018, 02:36:38 PM
Alan Nixon is saying again that the ffp rules allow for new owners but he doesn’t know it fully!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on July 29, 2018, 04:21:29 PM
QPR had a £17m fine.
Was it £17m? I thought I'd read £40m.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 29, 2018, 04:23:00 PM
£17m was the fine.  The other £23m was loans that they were forced to turn into shares instead.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 29, 2018, 04:25:30 PM
£17m? That's less than taking a hit on McCormack and Hogan.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 29, 2018, 04:27:26 PM
£17m was the fine.  The other £23m was loans that they were forced to turn into shares instead.

Is the latter something that we could do, or was that specific to the QPR case?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john2710 on July 29, 2018, 04:29:38 PM
£17m? That's less than taking a hit on McCormack and Hogan.

It's also taken 4 years to resolve through the courts. QPR will pay the £17m over 10 years.

Whilst I don't doubt FFP is an issue, was it being used as a excuse by Dr X to cover his cashflow problems?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 29, 2018, 04:40:08 PM
£17m? That's less than taking a hit on McCormack and Hogan.

It's also taken 4 years to resolve through the courts. QPR will pay the £17m over 10 years.

That being the case, in theory we could spend what we want and get promoted and pay the consequences of a fine later. Compared to the riches of being in the PL, it's peanuts. Timing has not been on our side this summer but I'd imagine the new owners won't want to be wasting too many seasons in the Championship.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 29, 2018, 04:45:17 PM
Problem being that when QPR broke the rules a fine and transfer embargo were the only punishments, i'd prefer us not to be a test case for the new rules.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 29, 2018, 04:47:58 PM
£17m was the fine.  The other £23m was loans that they were forced to turn into shares instead.

Is the latter something that we could do, or was that specific to the QPR case?

No idea to be honest.  The rules allow each club owner to inject something like £8m in new equity each year to cover losses, so I would think the £23m was probably in excess of the allowed amount?

Anyway, I think the point is that the EFL have recently said that the punishments will be more severe.  They've got the potential to deduct points, so do we want to test their resolve?  There's absolutely no point in having the rules if clubs can simply spend what they like and then pay a fine, when the fine pales into insignificance compared to the potential upside of a year back in the Premier League.  I've said it before, but say we finished 7th and missed out on 6th to a team who had breached FFP by £50m, we'd be severely pissed off and would want the league to apply some tough sanctions.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on July 29, 2018, 04:49:32 PM
£17m was the fine.  The other £23m was loans that they were forced to turn into shares instead.
Ah, ok. That explains it then.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 29, 2018, 04:50:47 PM
Did Xia invest anything? If not, could the new owners invest £24 million, £8 million for each accounting season we've been down here, or can you not backdate things like that?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on July 29, 2018, 08:26:54 PM
The UEFA FFP is a tool to keep the elite on top. The Football League FFP is to stop teams going bust.

Any tool which limits spending to an amount linked to revenue is designed to maintain the status quo. The EFL rules are no different.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 29, 2018, 08:28:54 PM
There is no status quo in the EFL. If you're better than the other teams you get promoted out of it. The EFL rules were not designed with Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and Juventus in mind because they never have to play in it.

The thought process behind it is entirely different to the cartel-thinking of UEFA's regulations.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 29, 2018, 08:31:11 PM
There is no status quo in the EFL.

Thank god for that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: jwarry on July 29, 2018, 08:39:06 PM
This is interesting even if a year old

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk

Can the great and the good make any sense of it?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on July 29, 2018, 08:43:03 PM
There is no status quo in the EFL. If you're better than the other teams you get promoted out of it. The EFL rules were not designed with Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and Juventus in mind because they never have to play in it.

The thought process behind it is entirely different to the cartel-thinking of UEFA's regulations.

Clubs can get promoted but a revenue-based system is still designed to ensure the "big" clubs stay at the top and the small clubs stay at the bottom.

If the EFL were serious about stopping clubs going bust they'd introduce a fixed spend cap like plenty of other sports.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 29, 2018, 08:53:11 PM
The big clubs in the EFL don't stay at the top, they get promoted, as a rule. We are the biggest club in the EFL and the rule seems to be handicapping us so your argument doesn't add up.

If we were talking about a FFP rule in the Premier League, I'd agree with you.

The EFL FFP rule is to stop teams going bust.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: preston28 on July 29, 2018, 08:56:10 PM
There is no status quo in the EFL.

Thank god for that.

Whatever you want......
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SashasGrandad on July 29, 2018, 09:06:58 PM
There is no status quo in the EFL.

Thank god for that.

Whatever you want......

As long as Small Heath Go Down Down deeper etc.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Cleybrooke on July 30, 2018, 11:50:54 AM
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/appendix-5---financial-fair-play-regulations/

It's all about appendix D....

2014/15 *(last year of the prem) is when we made a big loss - but the club put £79.6m of the £81m loss down to "exceptional items" including the "impairment of tangible fixed assets and intangible assets". This what Appenix D covers.

So as I understand it, we can lose £61m over the last 3 years

14/15 = £1.4m (assuming Appendix D application is correct)
15/16 = £14.5m (- a bit for Youth, Charity and Ladies football)
16/17 = £7.5m  (- a bit for Youth, Charity and Ladies football)

Call it £23m. Which gives us a big bag of head room....
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SirSteveUK on July 30, 2018, 11:53:12 AM
This is interesting even if a year old

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk

Can the great and the good make any sense of it?
This is interesting viewpoint:
“Moving from an assessment over one season to an assessment over three seasons has presented some challenges. Interestingly, rather than introduce the changes on a staggered basis, the Football League has introduced the change in one go. The contentious issue here is that for some clubs, a historic ‘rogue’ season which the club had put behind them, suddenly becomes part of the assessment criteria. Where this has happened and where a transfer ban has previously been imposed and subsequently lifted (eg Fulham, Forest, Cardiff), it seems unlikely that the Football League would apply a further punishment if the projections for the current season show the club is currently operating within the £13m maximum loss figure.”
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 30, 2018, 11:53:43 AM
Bit of information on transfer embargoes:

This was from Dec 2014 though so if punishments are harsher now.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30478833

In addition:

    Clubs under an FFP embargo will be permitted to sign a goalkeeper on an emergency basis, in line with existing regulations.

    Clubs under an FFP embargo will not be permitted to pay transfer fees or compensation fees for professional players.

    Clubs under an FFP embargo will not be permitted to pay a loan fee to another club, they may only pay the player's wage, or a contribution towards it.

    For incoming players, clubs can only pay agents' fees as a benefit in kind to the player in question, as long as they do not exceed the £600,000 employee costs limit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on July 30, 2018, 11:56:26 AM


Can anyone find any info about NSWE ?

What exactly are they and what is the companies value ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 30, 2018, 11:58:56 AM
It's the initials of the two blokes names...?

Unless my sarcasm detector is way out.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on July 30, 2018, 12:01:09 PM
The big clubs in the EFL don't stay at the top, they get promoted, as a rule. We are the biggest club in the EFL and the rule seems to be handicapping us so your argument doesn't add up.

If we were talking about a FFP rule in the Premier League, I'd agree with you.

The EFL FFP rule is to stop teams going bust.

It's not handicapping us. Tone gambled on getting promoted and fucked it up. That's what's now handicapping us 

Had we followed the rules from the off we'd still be able to spend much more than the rest of the division because our underlying revenue is so much greater.

It favours the big clubs in exactly the same way FFP does in the Prem. The only difference is the TV money makes the gap between the haves and have nots so much greater in the Prem so the order is much more established and you're less likely to get shocks.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 30, 2018, 12:12:51 PM
The big clubs in the EFL don't stay at the top, they get promoted, as a rule. We are the biggest club in the EFL and the rule seems to be handicapping us so your argument doesn't add up.

If we were talking about a FFP rule in the Premier League, I'd agree with you.

The EFL FFP rule is to stop teams going bust.

It's not handicapping us. Tone gambled on getting promoted and fucked it up. That's what's now handicapping us 

Had we followed the rules from the off we'd still be able to spend much more than the rest of the division because our underlying revenue is so much greater.

It favours the big clubs in exactly the same way FFP does in the Prem. The only difference is the TV money makes the gap between the haves and have nots so much greater in the Prem so the order is much more established and you're less likely to get shocks.

The reason it was introduced in the Football League was to reduce the number of clubs that were going into administration due to spending way beyond their means, and in that sense it's worked.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 30, 2018, 12:13:33 PM
From what I can make out it's a company they created specifically to do the deal.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Gerrin on July 30, 2018, 12:25:52 PM
Someone told me yesterday they'd read an article saying we're the 4th richest club in the country now, I can't find said article though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Keeno on July 30, 2018, 12:28:38 PM
Someone told me yesterday they'd read an article saying we're the 4th richest club in the country now, I can't find said article though.

3rd actually 😉
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villan from luton on July 30, 2018, 12:29:41 PM
Someone told me yesterday they'd read an article saying we're the 4th richest club in the country now, I can't find said article though.

That's a bit disappointing as I had read we were the third richest behind Man City and Chelsea!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on July 30, 2018, 12:33:10 PM


Can anyone find any info about NSWE ?

What exactly are they and what is the companies value ?

Still seems wierd that Wes Edens still not appeared as director in companies house info ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 30, 2018, 01:46:47 PM


Can anyone find any info about NSWE ?

What exactly are they and what is the companies value ?

Still seems wierd that Wes Edens still not appeared as director in companies house info ?

Not really.  He's probably got reasons (eg tax) for not wanting to be a director of a UK company.  The other chap is based in London isn't he?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SirSteveUK on July 30, 2018, 02:13:23 PM
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/appendix-5---financial-fair-play-regulations/

It's all about appendix D....

2014/15 *(last year of the prem) is when we made a big loss - but the club put £79.6m of the £81m loss down to "exceptional items" including the "impairment of tangible fixed assets and intangible assets". This what Appenix D covers.

So as I understand it, we can lose £61m over the last 3 years

14/15 = £1.4m (assuming Appendix D application is correct)
15/16 = £14.5m (- a bit for Youth, Charity and Ladies football)
16/17 = £7.5m  (- a bit for Youth, Charity and Ladies football)

Call it £23m. Which gives us a big bag of head room....

Those aren’t the last three years though, are they? Provisional accounts have been lodged with EFL for 2017/18 - as they have to be - by Mar 1.
Not sure where your figures come from, tbf
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: footyskillz on July 30, 2018, 02:20:38 PM
Someone told me yesterday they'd read an article saying we're the 4th richest club in the country now, I can't find said article though.

3rd actually 😉

Amassed wealth and assets of football owners it's like this

Manchester city
Chelsea
Villa
Arsenal
Stoke
Wolves
Spurs
Leicester
Man utd
Southampton
WBA
Newcastle
Liverpool

As villa have co owners wealth has been added together
As you can see wealth owners doesn't mean as much as think in some respects if clubs don't or can't spend or owners don't pay out.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Cleybrooke on July 30, 2018, 02:30:02 PM
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/appendix-5---financial-fair-play-regulations/

It's all about appendix D....

2014/15 *(last year of the prem) is when we made a big loss - but the club put £79.6m of the £81m loss down to "exceptional items" including the "impairment of tangible fixed assets and intangible assets". This what Appenix D covers.

So as I understand it, we can lose £61m over the last 3 years

14/15 = £1.4m (assuming Appendix D application is correct)
15/16 = £14.5m (- a bit for Youth, Charity and Ladies football)
16/17 = £7.5m  (- a bit for Youth, Charity and Ladies football)

Call it £23m. Which gives us a big bag of head room....

Those aren’t the last three years though, are they? Provisional accounts have been lodged with EFL for 2017/18 - as they have to be - by Mar 1.

Not sure where your figures come from, tbf

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39108015
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43088167
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/key-findings-aston-villas-latest-14293992


Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on July 30, 2018, 03:00:40 PM


Can anyone find any info about NSWE ?

What exactly are they and what is the companies value ?

Still seems wierd that Wes Edens still not appeared as director in companies house info ?

Not really.  He's probably got reasons (eg tax) for not wanting to be a director of a UK company.  The other chap is based in London isn't he?
Not sure where based but Nassef said he was overseeing the day to day running of the club. Not sure what responsibilities are different from his title of chief executive chairman to that of a ceo or is it just a technicality ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: UK Redsox on July 30, 2018, 03:17:06 PM
Just because Edens has part ownership doesn't mean that he has to be a director, does it ?

Anyway, the other bloke's appointment was only filed at Co House last Wednesday
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 30, 2018, 03:38:32 PM
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/appendix-5---financial-fair-play-regulations/

It's all about appendix D....

2014/15 *(last year of the prem) is when we made a big loss - but the club put £79.6m of the £81m loss down to "exceptional items" including the "impairment of tangible fixed assets and intangible assets". This what Appenix D covers.

So as I understand it, we can lose £61m over the last 3 years

14/15 = £1.4m (assuming Appendix D application is correct)
15/16 = £14.5m (- a bit for Youth, Charity and Ladies football)
16/17 = £7.5m  (- a bit for Youth, Charity and Ladies football)

Call it £23m. Which gives us a big bag of head room....

Those aren’t the last three years though, are they? Provisional accounts have been lodged with EFL for 2017/18 - as they have to be - by Mar 1.

Not sure where your figures come from, tbf

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39108015
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43088167
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/key-findings-aston-villas-latest-14293992




That last link just shows the position for one of the subsid companies and not the overall consolidated loss.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on July 30, 2018, 03:39:18 PM
Someone told me yesterday they'd read an article saying we're the 4th richest club in the country now, I can't find said article though.

3rd actually 😉

Amassed wealth and assets of football owners it's like this

Manchester city
Chelsea
Villa
Arsenal
Stoke
Wolves
Spurs
Leicester
Man utd
Southampton
WBA
Newcastle
Liverpool

As villa have co owners wealth has been added together
As you can see wealth owners doesn't mean as much as think in some respects if clubs don't or can't spend or owners don't pay out.

Yes, and I think the table above can be taken with a pinch of salt as there are so many ways to calculate (and hide) wealth. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on July 30, 2018, 04:56:35 PM


Considering Fosun own the dogheads and they're valued at about 60 billion i find hard to believe we're above them.

Not that this shit matters when you can't spend it anyway  ;D
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on August 02, 2018, 04:48:24 PM
Another 2 properties charges / mortgages paid off today according to companies house, on top of the 11 they paid off on taking over. 👌👍. Only 3 outstanding now. More towards proving finance controls and increased assets towards FFP.
Dr T might write....( 11 x 😡🏡+ 3 x 😡🏡)➕ (14 x £££) + Jack Grealish = FFP ??
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on August 02, 2018, 04:52:23 PM
Increased assets won’t help with FFP unless they generate income.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on August 02, 2018, 05:14:29 PM
Increased assets won’t help with FFP unless they generate income.

I am guessing that is the idea of paying off the mortgages. Then they can sell the properties to generate income. When I was a manager for William Hill, at one point they sold a load of their properties off to raise capital on the agreement that they could then rent the shops back from the new owners. Isn't that also similar to what the FA are talking about doing with Wembley?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on August 02, 2018, 05:37:36 PM
Yes, sale and lease back.  Its fairly common.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on August 02, 2018, 06:02:35 PM
I would imagine they've looked st the books and cannot quite work out why we own a farm, a hall and a semi-detached house in Great Barr. Or why we're paying HSBC monthly for the privilege of owning an interest in the properties or why we haven't owned the home of football outright since the 1950s.

I understand all the parcels of land around B6 itself for development purposes.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 02, 2018, 06:09:28 PM
Just because Edens has part ownership doesn't mean that he has to be a director, does it ?

Anyway, the other bloke's appointment was only filed at Co House last Wednesday

He doesn't have to hold any position at the club at all. He's a shareholder.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on August 02, 2018, 06:11:38 PM
Correctamundo.

Ownership and control are two different things.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: GarTomas on August 03, 2018, 01:57:29 PM
Companies house show an allotment of more shares.  Document not available yet so not certain if it's 4mn more for a total of 73mn or 73mn more!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on August 07, 2018, 10:20:45 AM
Companies house now filed Wes EDEN’s as director..... ironically listed as the first appointment before older ones left or Dr T had changed and before Nassef was listed. All one big happy family now !
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 08, 2018, 09:01:10 AM
Wesley Robert Edens no less.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villabear on August 08, 2018, 10:43:46 PM
I don’t think Dr Tony can be too involved in the running of the club at the moment as he’s got the time to read Twitter #avfc and ‘like’ two of my tweets today.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 08, 2018, 11:41:57 PM
Who’s Jonny Gould? New director apparently.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 08, 2018, 11:55:17 PM
Who’s Jonny Gould? New director apparently.

He's a talk radio foghorn. I saw on Twitter that he'd been voted onto the board of AVST, rather than the club's board?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 08, 2018, 11:57:49 PM
Who’s Jonny Gould? New director apparently.

He's a talk radio foghorn. I saw on Twitter that he'd been voted onto the board of AVST, rather than the club's board?

Ah ok. Bit of difference there then.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richl on August 09, 2018, 12:00:58 AM
Still no bottom of the shirt sponsor. How much will that be worth?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on August 09, 2018, 07:04:29 AM
Not a lot I'd have thought.

Which is odd as in F1 sponsors are everywhere on the suits and cars, worth a fortune to a global audience.

We're on Sky 20 times a year in a significantly distributed league globally, so you'd think clubs would have lots of sponsorship.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 22, 2018, 06:56:40 PM
Looks as if #AVFC owners have either invested a further £30m cash in the club via a share issue or written off £30m of debt by converting into shares. Either way further sign of sensible stable ownership.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Tuscans on August 22, 2018, 06:58:14 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DlOEQmDWsAAWfDk.jpg:large)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on August 22, 2018, 07:04:52 PM
Sounds good.  Happy days. Win tonight too please.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on August 23, 2018, 07:15:21 AM
For some reason Bristol City fans foam at the mouth about us and it's a common theme amongst other clubs to "hate the Villa with a passion" over FFP and other odd reasons.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 23, 2018, 01:55:30 PM
Foam at the mouth about something we haven't breached.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on August 23, 2018, 02:27:46 PM
Foam at the mouth about something we haven't breached.

Yeah, but in this division we're the supposed big boys to be shot down.

I just wish we'd bloody act and play like it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on August 23, 2018, 02:44:57 PM
For some reason Bristol City fans foam at the mouth about us and it's a common theme amongst other clubs to "hate the Villa with a passion" over FFP and other odd reasons.


I think the foam thing is just down to the local dialect.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on August 23, 2018, 05:18:41 PM
too much scrumpy
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aj2k77 on August 23, 2018, 05:59:49 PM
It's a back handed compliment. Can you imagine Villa fans foaming at the mouth over Sheffield Wednesday or Bristol City? It just wouldn't happen.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on August 24, 2018, 09:58:42 AM
Looks like Dr T has had his shares changed to "deferred shares" so that they no longer carry voting rights, and that he's no longer entitled to any distributions.  The company can at any time it likes, redeem them, ie buy him out, for £1 a share, or £47m.  Must be a bit of a kick in the nuts that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 24, 2018, 10:30:58 AM
£47m for a club he paid £75m for and then shelled out God knows on transfer fees.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aj2k77 on August 24, 2018, 10:36:30 AM
£47m for a club he brought to the very brink. Any one of us could have done what he did, spend the parachute payments and sell off every last drop of income for an all or nothing throw of the dice. Absolutely no thought went in to anything he did, basically kid on a computer game kind of stuff. He's lucky to get a penny.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 24, 2018, 10:37:43 AM
£47m for a club he brought to the very brink. Any one of us could have done what he did, spend the parachute payments and sell off every last drop of income for an all or nothing throw of the dice. Absolutely no thought went in to anything he did, basically kid on a computer game kind of stuff. He's lucky to get a penny.

Spot on.

People talk about transfer spending as if it came out of his back pocket.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: clash city rocker on August 24, 2018, 04:49:28 PM
£47m for a club he brought to the very brink. Any one of us could have done what he did, spend the parachute payments and sell off every last drop of income for an all or nothing throw of the dice. Absolutely no thought went in to anything he did, basically kid on a computer game kind of stuff. He's lucky to get a penny.

Spot on.

People talk about transfer spending as if it came out of his back pocket.

Think we have successful business men in charge now who will take a longer term view but ultimately provide us with a successful  future.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: CT Villan on August 24, 2018, 05:50:54 PM
Looks like Dr T has had his shares changed to "deferred shares" so that they no longer carry voting rights, and that he's no longer entitled to any distributions.  The company can at any time it likes, redeem them, ie buy him out, for £1 a share, or £47m.  Must be a bit of a kick in the nuts that.

Didn't he already receive 35m for a 55% stake ; wouldn't this be a total of 82m once all of his shares have been purchased ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on August 24, 2018, 05:54:44 PM
For some reason Bristol City fans foam at the mouth about us and it's a common theme amongst other clubs to "hate the Villa with a passion" over FFP and other odd reasons.
Bovverred?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: oldhill_avfc on August 24, 2018, 06:01:37 PM
Looks like Dr T has had his shares changed to "deferred shares" so that they no longer carry voting rights, and that he's no longer entitled to any distributions.  The company can at any time it likes, redeem them, ie buy him out, for £1 a share, or £47m.  Must be a bit of a kick in the nuts that.

If I've understood that right, unless they were preparing to sell I don't know why they'd ever buy him out - makes NSWE investment even better value, and shows the good doctor up for what he is (or isnt?)  ie a businessman
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on August 24, 2018, 06:38:16 PM


I noticed Recon had disappeared from the presser background boards this morning
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on August 24, 2018, 06:40:57 PM
Arent they sponsoring bodymoor?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on August 24, 2018, 06:54:17 PM
The whole takeover from day one appeared to be a way of him stepping aside and being eased out quietly and diplomatically over a short period of time without shoving him through the exit door too quickly so he could retain some pride and respect. I think he had the best of intentions but just wasn't up to running a football club. I shudder to think exactly how bad things could have got on and off the pitch without the takeover. Aside from our new owners clearly being rich I was delighted they also had experience of running a sports team.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 24, 2018, 07:15:45 PM
£47m for a club he brought to the very brink. Any one of us could have done what he did, spend the parachute payments and sell off every last drop of income for an all or nothing throw of the dice. Absolutely no thought went in to anything he did, basically kid on a computer game kind of stuff. He's lucky to get a penny.

Although it came across cack handedly in my post I fully concur with this sentiment.  Remember ‘I’m not a dollar billionaire.’  Remember the Daily Mail journalist that was shown that bank draft for £50m or whatever it was.  RMB probably.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clark W Griswold on August 24, 2018, 07:19:52 PM
The whole takeover from day one appeared to be a way of him stepping aside and being eased out quietly and diplomatically over a short period of time without shoving him through the exit door too quickly so he could retain some pride and respect. I think he had the best of intentions but just wasn't up to running a football club. I shudder to think exactly how bad things could have got on and off the pitch without the takeover. Aside from our new owners clearly being rich I was delighted they also had experience of running a sports team.

Indeed. I agree that he had the best of intentions and the fact that he sorted the shitstorm he'd created within a matter of weeks and to the extent that he did (the new owners) I'll always be fond of him.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on August 24, 2018, 07:22:56 PM
Arent they sponsoring bodymoor?

I suspect that signage will be gone soon if it hasn't already as well
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: oldhill_avfc on August 24, 2018, 07:23:10 PM
How touchingly naive.

He blagged his way into the Villa with borrowed money that he to pay back very quickly.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on August 24, 2018, 07:24:11 PM
Randy really was very, very desperate to sell wasn't he?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 24, 2018, 08:07:53 PM
How touchingly naive.

He blagged his way into the Villa with borrowed money that he to pay back very quickly.

Triads?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Richard E on August 24, 2018, 08:13:13 PM
Arent they sponsoring bodymoor?

The Recon logos had disappeared from the wall behind Bruce at this morning’s press conference having still been there last week.

I suspect that signage will be gone soon if it hasn't already as well
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 24, 2018, 08:16:03 PM
Randy really was very, very desperate to sell wasn't he?
Yep, he could not wait to be rid of us in the end.
Took a huge hit on the price having gone the Austerity route in an attempt to stop hemmorrhaging  cash.
So he came, spunked a load, shot his bolt and squirted off a few hundred million lighter.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: four fornicholl on August 24, 2018, 08:18:27 PM
Randy really was very, very desperate to sell wasn't he?
Yep, he could not wait to be rid of us in the end.
Took a huge hit on the price having gone the Austerity route in an attempt to stop hemmorrhaging  cash.
So he came, spunked a load, shot his bolt and squirted off a few hundred million lighter.
Sometimes I actually feel quite sorry for him, .
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisf on August 24, 2018, 08:22:06 PM
I like to think that Tony was (as he said at the time) looking for minority investment partners.

It was going really well. He'd sold 27% to some Egyptian geezer and 27% to a Yank in a dodgy suit.

Tony's still got 45% so he's the still the proud chairman and big cheese ... oh bugger.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 24, 2018, 08:25:02 PM
Randy really was very, very desperate to sell wasn't he?
Yep, he could not wait to be rid of us in the end.
Took a huge hit on the price having gone the Austerity route in an attempt to stop hemmorrhaging  cash.
So he came, spunked a load, shot his bolt and squirted off a few hundred million lighter.
Sometimes I actually feel quite sorry for him, .
I can understand that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on August 24, 2018, 08:28:38 PM
I like to think that Tony was (as he said at the time) looking for minority investment partners.

It was going really well. He'd sold 27% to some Egyptian geezer and 27% to a Yank in a dodgy suit.

Tony's still got 45% so he's the still the proud chairman and big cheese ... oh bugger.

He doesn't. Additional shares have been issued so his percentage has been devalued.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 24, 2018, 11:14:03 PM
Got to love this bitterness.

Alan Nixon
Alan Nixon
@reluctantnicko
·
4h
New owners means new money. And a new gamble.
Quote Tweet
Charlie Hicks
@CharlieYidz
Replying to @DC_32212 and @reluctantnicko
How the fk have Villa gone from being up shit Creek financially to signing players?
Surely if they don’t go up this season they are totally fucked Alan?
They can’t afford to keep doing this.

Knowing their fans they’ll want Bruce sacked if there’s a run of 3 draws
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 24, 2018, 11:15:03 PM
For the 122nd time we haven’t breached FFP.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on August 25, 2018, 08:34:15 AM
The whole takeover from day one appeared to be a way of him stepping aside and being eased out quietly and diplomatically over a short period of time without shoving him through the exit door too quickly so he could retain some pride and respect. I think he had the best of intentions but just wasn't up to running a football club. I shudder to think exactly how bad things could have got on and off the pitch without the takeover. Aside from our new owners clearly being rich I was delighted they also had experience of running a sports team.
we’re all guessing really, but this is how I see it Damo. I do believe Dr T had good intentions, but was out of his depth. Looks like he’s found a (relatively) cheap and face-saving exit door.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on August 25, 2018, 08:40:38 AM
FWIIW I think Tony Xia fell into exactly the same trap as Randy Lerner.  He had the wrong people around him.  By and large opportunistic careerists who exploited both owners' naivety.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on August 25, 2018, 08:43:34 AM
Got to love this bitterness.

Alan Nixon
Alan Nixon
@reluctantnicko
·
4h
New owners means new money. And a new gamble.
Quote Tweet
Charlie Hicks
@CharlieYidz
Replying to @DC_32212 and @reluctantnicko
How the fk have Villa gone from being up shit Creek financially to signing players?
Surely if they don’t go up this season they are totally fucked Alan?
They can’t afford to keep doing this.

Knowing their fans they’ll want Bruce sacked if there’s a run of 3 draws

To be fair- he’s right about the last bit! #ficklevillafansfromtheshiresintheirrangerovers 😉
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on August 25, 2018, 08:49:00 AM
FWIIW I think Tony Xia fell into exactly the same trap as Randy Lerner.  He had the wrong people around him.  By and large opportunistic careerists who exploited both owners' naivety.
I think you’re on the money there too Brian. Who was that ****** from arsenal- Tom Fox ? Had me hook line and sinker. I do wonder where my natural healthy Villa fan cynicism disappeared to when they got him in. I put it down to pure desperation that everything was going to be alright.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on August 25, 2018, 08:53:28 AM
Me too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on August 25, 2018, 09:17:27 AM
FWIIW I think Tony Xia fell into exactly the same trap as Randy Lerner.  He had the wrong people around him.  By and large opportunistic careerists who exploited both owners' naivety.

spot on

and the new owners will either rise or fall on their recruitment record
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cheltenhamlion on August 25, 2018, 09:19:36 AM
Fox had some good ideas on how to organise us into a modern business entity. He just didn't have the football experience to put it into practice.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on August 25, 2018, 09:20:20 AM
Fox had some good ideas on how to organise us into a modern business entity. He just didn't have the football experience to put it into practice.

The bloke was a fucking idiot.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cheltenhamlion on August 25, 2018, 09:27:00 AM
Fox had some good ideas on how to organise us into a modern business entity. He just didn't have the football experience to put it into practice.

The bloke was a fucking idiot.

We will have to agree to disagree. He was far from stupid but had nowhere near the required experience to dig us out of the shit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on August 25, 2018, 09:32:35 AM
He was an unmitigated disaster.  He made Tim Sherwood (who he appointed, lest we forget) look like a beacon of intelligence and competence.  Fox was just about the worst senior exec we've ever had, and given some of the numpties of late, that's quite an accolade.  False Narrative arsehole.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: themossman on August 25, 2018, 09:37:50 AM
Just to confirm Bristol city fans really do hate us to a bizarre degree. Guy cutting my hair this week was talking about joe Bryan like it’s was a legendary victory for them and it wipes out the 5-0.

I think a lot of it is Kodjia based I guess that was the clearest example of us steaming in with parachute money and nicking another champ club’s best player.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on August 25, 2018, 10:05:28 AM
He was an unmitigated disaster.  He made Tim Sherwood (who he appointed, lest we forget) look like a beacon of intelligence and competence.  Fox was just about the worst senior exec we've ever had, and given some of the numpties of late, that's quite an accolade.  False Narrative arsehole.

Convincing someone to pay you millions of pounds to job you can’t do is not the work of an idiot, in my view.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on August 25, 2018, 10:35:54 AM
He was an unmitigated disaster.  He made Tim Sherwood (who he appointed, lest we forget) look like a beacon of intelligence and competence.  Fox was just about the worst senior exec we've ever had, and given some of the numpties of late, that's quite an accolade.  False Narrative arsehole.

Convincing someone to pay you millions of pounds to job you can’t do is not the work of an idiot, in my view.

Depends if the person you’re trying to convince is an idiot I suppose.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on August 25, 2018, 10:37:17 AM
He made idiotic decisions, so I'll go with idiot too.
I take idiot to mean foolish.

There is no link between intelligence and wisdom.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on August 25, 2018, 11:23:38 AM
I reckon there must have been two blokes called Tom Fox working at Arsenal. One was the Chief Commercial Officer and the other one ran the club shop. We mixed them up and appointed the wrong one.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: GarTomas on August 25, 2018, 05:23:07 PM
A poor result next week and we may see how serious they are.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on August 25, 2018, 05:24:31 PM
I trust they're prepared for another season in the Championship.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on August 25, 2018, 05:50:29 PM
He was an unmitigated disaster.  He made Tim Sherwood (who he appointed, lest we forget) look like a beacon of intelligence and competence.  Fox was just about the worst senior exec we've ever had, and given some of the numpties of late, that's quite an accolade.  False Narrative arsehole.

Convincing someone to pay you millions of pounds to job you can’t do is not the work of an idiot, in my view.

Well Sherwood managed it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on August 25, 2018, 08:43:37 PM
I hope that as well as sorting the playing side out, these two get the basic commercial stuff sorted out too. Yet again, the farce that is our stadium catering operation was in full effect in the Trinity today. No card payments, nowhere near enough staff and hot dogs selling out before half time...not that I would eat one but there were plenty of disappointed punters - and that’s before the equaliser!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on August 26, 2018, 10:44:44 AM
Chelsea up for sale - for £2 billion!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: clash city rocker on August 26, 2018, 11:21:28 AM
Chelsea up for sale - for £2 billion!!

A tad out of my price range even if I was interested.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aj2k77 on August 26, 2018, 11:51:54 AM
If I had the money I'd buy them and run them in to the ground the shithouses.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on August 26, 2018, 12:01:18 PM
Chelsea up for sale - for £2 billion!!

Is that the borough of Chelsea?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on August 26, 2018, 12:07:26 PM
Chelsea up for sale - for £2 billion!!

Is that the borough of Chelsea?

£2bn wouldn’t go very far there.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: myf on September 01, 2018, 08:28:54 PM
Their first decision to retain Bruce was a big mistake. Not enthralled by their transfer policy either - looking very short termism again with reliance on loanees.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 01, 2018, 08:30:50 PM
Their first decision to retain Bruce was a big mistake. Not enthralled by their transfer policy either - looking very short termism again with reliance on loanees.

Well they didn’t really have much choice did they? There was no structure, beyond Bruce, in place and they had little time and FFP to contend with.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on September 01, 2018, 08:32:49 PM
Their first decision to retain Bruce was a big mistake. Not enthralled by their transfer policy either - looking very short termism again with reliance on loanees.

I disagree.

Bruceosauros was needed at the time to keep a bit of continuity.  He is now a dead man walking having served his purpose.

We need to utilize the loan market due to FFP.  Wolves played it perfectly last season as did Huddersfield the season before - It is where we are.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 01, 2018, 08:36:16 PM
Big decision over next few days.

Ditching SB now would be statement of intent and let's be honest with these last few performances we are sliding down the league so don't think we have much to lose by letting him go.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on September 01, 2018, 08:43:04 PM
Big decision over next few days.

Ditching SB now would be statement of intent and let's be honest with these last few performances we are sliding down the league so don't think we have much to lose by letting him go.

3 points from the last 12 after fluking a last minute win against Wigan.

2 of those points being against the bottom 2 teams.

Heading for "thereabouts" but "there" is looking increasingly unlikely, even at this early stage.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on September 01, 2018, 08:55:00 PM
Big decision over next few days.

Ditching SB now would be statement of intent and let's be honest with these last few performances we are sliding down the league so don't think we have much to lose by letting him go.

Not sure the owners would see it like that especially when you've dumped a manager a week or two after letting him bring in 7 players and probably spend 10m on transfers, loan fee's and wages. Certainly they'd look a bit foolish.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on September 01, 2018, 08:58:34 PM
Big decision over next few days.

Ditching SB now would be statement of intent and let's be honest with these last few performances we are sliding down the league so don't think we have much to lose by letting him go.

Not sure the owners would see it like that especially when you've dumped a manager a week or two after letting him bring in 7 players and probably spend 10m on transfers, loan fee's and wages. Certainly they'd look a bit foolish.

If its Bruce who spent the money of course.

I know he gives it loads about him not standing for interference but every man has his price, including Bruce.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on September 01, 2018, 10:14:16 PM
I would imagine the next manager has already been lined up. These new guys won’t by shy to pull the trigger I’m sure of that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 01, 2018, 11:10:05 PM
Big decision over next few days.

Ditching SB now would be statement of intent and let's be honest with these last few performances we are sliding down the league so don't think we have much to lose by letting him go.

Not sure the owners would see it like that especially when you've dumped a manager a week or two after letting him bring in 7 players and probably spend 10m on transfers, loan fee's and wages. Certainly they'd look a bit foolish.

Are they all his signings though? Bolaise and Abraham yes as they're obvious ones which SB seems to specialise in, the ones from abroad probably not.

If they have little confidence in him actually bringing the best out of these signings like most of us on here then we need to let him go.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on March 24, 2019, 08:48:20 AM
Companies house showing change of name... Recon football club ltd finally disappeared and now back to ASTON VILLA LIMITED 👍👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Perhaps more compliance to our agreement under new ownership following EFL rules and changes to avoid any fair play issues. Old guard now removed
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on March 24, 2019, 11:58:34 AM
Companies house showing chains of name... Recon football club ltd finally disappeared and now back to ASTON VILLA LIMITED 👍👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Perhaps more compliance to our agreement under new ownership following EFL rules and changes to avoid any fair play issues. Old guard now removed
Good news. It would be nice to hear a statement of intent off the owners. Anything from them woud be nice.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on March 24, 2019, 12:28:52 PM
Xia is still listed as an active director, though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on March 24, 2019, 01:07:22 PM
I think he's gradually being diluted like weak Kia-Ora though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: clash city rocker on March 24, 2019, 01:31:20 PM
I,m still not sure what Dr.Tony does or has.He suddenly arrived on the scene and then just as suddenly disappeared. A bit like a Paul Daniels magic trick.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on March 24, 2019, 02:22:41 PM
Fair play current owners clearing loads of debt and putting working capital shares in place....we’ve not even started a main transfer window yet . If we did go Up, I just wonder how much they would splash as opposed to being restricted by ffp in championship again ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villafirst on March 24, 2019, 02:37:40 PM
I,m still not sure what Dr.Tony does or has.He suddenly arrived on the scene and then just as suddenly disappeared. A bit like a Paul Daniels magic trick.

But the majic trick backfired somewhat spectacularly!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Timmo on April 11, 2019, 08:40:19 PM
Club owners have become less visible in recent months, it seems. Does anyone know if they attend games? Any interviews or statements from 5hem. Curious to know what they think of current club status.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on April 11, 2019, 08:59:00 PM
Current club status is that we are an improving top half championship club so nothing to get excited about and nothing to be worried about for the moment. No statement  necessary.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on April 11, 2019, 10:22:58 PM
I’d go a bit further to say, we’re the form team of the championship, 7 wins on the bounce, and look to be emulating, or eclipsing, the Fulham of last season. Let them make a statement after we’ve won the playoff final at Wembley.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on April 12, 2019, 02:48:14 AM
I was thinking about this the other day as its only a matter of time until we hear cries of "absentee owners" if anything goes wrong. We have Purslow who keeps us informed of any off the field developments, Smith keeps us well informed of any team news and the communication from the club via email and social media is the best its ever been. Owners do not have to be seen or heard so let them just get on with quietly steering the good ship Villa in the right direction.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OzVilla on April 12, 2019, 04:17:30 AM
Alan Nixons twitter feed had someone mention French media reports suggesting that the PSG owners looking at us, Forest or QPR.

Anyone else heard anything, BE? 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on April 12, 2019, 04:48:45 AM
Just speculative rumours and I don't think NSWE would even consider selling if we get promoted...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/04/11/psg-owners-may-buy-championship-club-french-media-make-links/
https://en.onefootball.com/psg-owners-interested-in-purchasing-roma-and-or-championship-clubs/
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: GarTomas on April 12, 2019, 07:09:15 AM
I don’t see the current owners selling up so early into their investment which for the most part has been a success.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: papa lazarou on April 12, 2019, 09:52:41 AM
Speculation.
Even if true it suggests that a championship club would be the target, which rules us out.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on April 12, 2019, 11:58:34 AM
I,m still not sure what Dr.Tony does or has.He suddenly arrived on the scene and then just as suddenly disappeared. A bit like a Paul Daniels magic trick.

But the majic trick backfired somewhat spectacularly!

More like Tommy Cooper than Paul Daniels. Plus they both disappeared behind a curtain never to be seen again.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on April 12, 2019, 01:15:02 PM
QPR strong fanbase?! Have a word...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Monty on April 12, 2019, 01:50:01 PM
Probably bollocks, but in any event the PSG owners can kindly go fuck themselves. If there's one thing this spell in the Championship has taught me it's that even in football some things are more important than the brute fact of success.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on April 12, 2019, 03:18:19 PM
Probably bollocks, but in any event the PSG owners can kindly go fuck themselves. If there's one thing this spell in the Championship has taught me it's that even in football some things are more important than the brute fact of success.

I agree about 99% but there other 1% of me is trying to work out whether they might think getting Mbappe and Neymar in the premier league would be a good idea and moving them from 1 team to their other.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 12, 2019, 03:21:50 PM
"English clubs with strong fan bases"... "QPR".

Great research, amis.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on April 12, 2019, 03:45:07 PM
I did hear a while back (I think it was on the radio) that Christian Purslow was in talks with other potential investors.  I'm no expert on how these things work, but is it feasible that the PSG owners (if this story is true) could be looking to invest into the "NSWE" investment vehicle itself?  That way they could bypass issues about being involved with more than one club?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 12, 2019, 03:55:49 PM
PSG as a feeder club? I can live with that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Richard E on April 12, 2019, 04:07:44 PM
Probably bow locks, but in any event the PSG owners can kindly go f*** themselves. If there's one thing this spell in the Championship has taught me it's that even in football some things are more important than the brute fact of success.

Can they fund us winning the FA Cup once before I cark it, and then go and f*** themselves?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 12, 2019, 06:24:09 PM
Probably bollocks, but in any event the PSG owners can kindly go fuck themselves. If there's one thing this spell in the Championship has taught me it's that even in football some things are more important than the brute fact of success.

Indeed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SaddVillan on April 13, 2019, 02:10:50 PM
Not sure if they would find it as easy in England. PSG outspend every other team on France by a considerable margin and so can almost guarantee that whoever signs for them will be in the Chumps year ad infinitum.

Buying a Div 2 club and taking it to the top of the Prem and beyond will require a considerable amount of money AND time. In terms of signings when it comes to choosing somewhere to live, does Brum or Nottingham have the cachet of Paris, London, Milan, Barca or Madrid- so they'd have to pay mega contracts to get top players in.

Same goes for management. The top ones don't/won't want to spend 2-3 seasons working their way up through the leagues.

Added to which, we have very wealthy owners, who might sell for a quick profit, but we all hope are in it for the long term. They've got plans in place for steady progress and that to me is a better way than pouring in a billion petrodollars.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on April 22, 2019, 06:24:54 PM
I knew that at some point these guys would get infected by the Villa bug.
It has happened....they are now one of us.

https://twitter.com/villareport/status/1120361312389869568?s=21
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Singapore Villa on April 23, 2019, 01:44:08 PM
Good to see some passion.

UTV!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on April 23, 2019, 02:25:07 PM
Yeah but where were they on a freezing, dismal February night in Brentford?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dr Butler on April 23, 2019, 02:34:07 PM
Yeah but where were they on a freezing, dismal February night in Brentford?

probaly not enough aways for tickets :)

UTV
The Doc
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 23, 2019, 02:35:30 PM
Bloody glory hunters

What I’d like to know is where were they when we was shit and broke?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on April 23, 2019, 03:13:31 PM
they've probably visited the ground more times than Randy did just by turning up yesterday.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2019, 03:30:05 PM
they've probably visited the ground more times than Randy did just by turning up yesterday.

Which is nonsense and you know it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: XXVilla on April 23, 2019, 04:03:00 PM
Bloody glory hunters

What I’d like to know is where were they when we was shit and broke?

Waiting there with bags of cash
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: XXVilla on April 23, 2019, 04:05:36 PM
they've probably visited the ground more times than Randy did just by turning up yesterday.

Which is nonsense and you know it.

 I like how they’ve bought into the club in an understated way and not yet promised something they are not able to deliver.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on April 23, 2019, 04:09:20 PM
I am a bit dubious of the owner who comes in and promises this that and how much he now loves the club in such s short time
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2019, 04:20:24 PM
they've probably visited the ground more times than Randy did just by turning up yesterday.

Which is nonsense and you know it.

 I like how they’ve bought into the club in an understated way and not yet promised something they are not able to deliver.

What I really liked about them when we met was that they bought something off me didn't promise the earth and weren't going to run before they could walk. Lerner at first was the right man for his time, as Doug had been in 1968, but these two didn't feel that they had anything to prove, which I suppose is understandable when you're that rich.   
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on April 23, 2019, 04:24:17 PM
they've probably visited the ground more times than Randy did just by turning up yesterday.

Which is nonsense and you know it.

 I like how they’ve bought into the club in an understated way and not yet promised something they are not able to deliver.

What I really liked about them when we met was that they bought something off me didn't promise the earth and weren't going to run before they could walk. Lerner at first was the right man for his time, as Doug had been in 1968, but these two didn't feel that they had anything to prove, which I suppose is understandable when you're that rich.   

Yes yes but they've been here more times than Randy.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on April 23, 2019, 04:27:58 PM
The best thing they've done is employ Purslow and keep quiet. A proper administrator with experience not being undermined by a vocal owner is almost like they taken the mistakes made by the last 2 owners and been determined not to repeat them.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on April 23, 2019, 04:31:49 PM
The best thing they've done is employ Purslow and keep quiet. A proper administrator with experience not being undermined by a vocal owner is almost like they taken the mistakes made by the last 2 owners and been determined not to repeat them.

That was possibly Randy's biggest failing. He stayed in the background but didn't employ anyone decent to run it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: XXVilla on April 23, 2019, 04:42:20 PM
The best thing they've done is employ Purslow and keep quiet. A proper administrator with experience not being undermined by a vocal owner is almost like they taken the mistakes made by the last 2 owners and been determined not to repeat them.

That was possibly Randy's biggest failing. He stayed in the background but didn't employ anyone decent to run it.

Out of his depth really. This became obvious when the money dried up.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on April 23, 2019, 04:48:05 PM
The best thing they've done is employ Purslow and keep quiet. A proper administrator with experience not being undermined by a vocal owner is almost like they taken the mistakes made by the last 2 owners and been determined not to repeat them.

That was possibly Randy's biggest failing. He stayed in the background but didn't employ anyone decent to run it.

Out of his depth really. This became obvious when the money dried up.

I'm not sure the money dried up, he probably just lost interest.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on April 23, 2019, 04:59:02 PM
The best thing they've done is employ Purslow and keep quiet. A proper administrator with experience not being undermined by a vocal owner is almost like they taken the mistakes made by the last 2 owners and been determined not to repeat them.

That was possibly Randy's biggest failing. He stayed in the background but didn't employ anyone decent to run it.
He did employ decent CEO's, they were just undermined and ultimately removed by O'Neill. He did the same at Sunderland.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on April 23, 2019, 05:08:52 PM
Please don't talk about Lerner.

Gone, best forgotten.

Our new guys haven't put a foot wrong yet. Good investment and appointments which have given good results.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on April 23, 2019, 05:15:20 PM
Tom Fox was that man.  Unfortunately he turned out to be a false narrative.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: XXVilla on April 23, 2019, 05:43:57 PM
The best thing they've done is employ Purslow and keep quiet. A proper administrator with experience not being undermined by a vocal owner is almost like they taken the mistakes made by the last 2 owners and been determined not to repeat them.

That was possibly Randy's biggest failing. He stayed in the background but didn't employ anyone decent to run it.

Out of his depth really. This became obvious when the money dried up.

I'm not sure the money dried up, he probably just lost interest.

Villa gave him quite a battering in his pocket. That and the financial crash
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on April 23, 2019, 05:51:14 PM
The best thing they've done is employ Purslow and keep quiet. A proper administrator with experience not being undermined by a vocal owner is almost like they taken the mistakes made by the last 2 owners and been determined not to repeat them.

That was possibly Randy's biggest failing. He stayed in the background but didn't employ anyone decent to run it.

Biggest failing was to keep appointing shit managers
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 23, 2019, 06:28:24 PM
Yeah but where were they on a freezing, dismal February night in Brentford?

Don't think Mallory's dress from yesterday would be suitable attire for a freezing, dismal Feb night. Just been waiting for the warm weather to arrive.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on April 23, 2019, 06:52:52 PM
The best thing they've done is employ Purslow and keep quiet. A proper administrator with experience not being undermined by a vocal owner is almost like they taken the mistakes made by the last 2 owners and been determined not to repeat them.

That was possibly Randy's biggest failing. He stayed in the background but didn't employ anyone decent to run it.

Biggest failing was to keep appointing shit managers


At least he got shot of McLeish quickly when the appointment clearly hadn't worked out. It is just a shame he didn't do the same with Lambert.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on April 23, 2019, 07:05:18 PM

At least he got shot of McLeish quickly when the appointment clearly hadn't worked out. It is just a shame he didn't do the same with Lambert.

I will never to this day understand how Lambert survived that Christmas period that contained the 8-0 dicking by Chelsea.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aj2k77 on April 23, 2019, 07:36:53 PM

At least he got shot of McLeish quickly when the appointment clearly hadn't worked out. It is just a shame he didn't do the same with Lambert.

I will never to this day understand how Lambert survived that Christmas period that contained the 8-0 dicking by Chelsea.

Because no one at the club gave a fuck and getting rid of him and hiring a new manager was more hassle?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on April 23, 2019, 09:23:43 PM

At least he got shot of McLeish quickly when the appointment clearly hadn't worked out. It is just a shame he didn't do the same with Lambert.

I will never to this day understand how Lambert survived that Christmas period that contained the 8-0 dicking by Chelsea.

it wasn’t just an isolated result either was it
we were shipping in goals all over the place

really bad  ( as Gendry would say )
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2019, 09:36:39 PM
Because what this site really needs is another Paul Lambert moanathon.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on April 23, 2019, 09:48:48 PM
Because what this site really needs is another Paul Lambert moanathon.


As football fans we all tend to be Victor Meldrew's and given our recent winning run we have to have a moan about other things rather than our results. But I agree we should probably just try to forget about Lambert.

I might start a Graham Turner thread. ;)

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 23, 2019, 09:53:37 PM
Lerner's problem was his total failure to understand that although he was willing to put huge amounts of money in, he still needed to appoint people to look after his investment and grow it.

Even Man City's owners with their literally endless wealth understand that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on April 23, 2019, 10:01:16 PM
I think in hindsight MON should have been given total control of first team matters but some kind of DOF was needed regarding the structure of the club in general. I was a big fan of MON but like most managers it was all about the here and now and results. That is fine so long as someone else at the club has an eye on the bigger long term picture.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan For Life on April 23, 2019, 10:04:36 PM
I think in hindsight MON should have been given total control of first team matters but some kind of DOF was needed regarding the structure of the club in general. I was a big fan of MON but like most managers it was all about the here and now and results. That is fine so long as someone else at the club has an eye on the bigger long term picture.

We needed someone who could have stopped MON dishing out lengthy contracts to older players like Heskey and Given. Steve Stride would have been perfect in that role.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on April 23, 2019, 10:08:39 PM
Fantastic to see that sort of passion from the CEO and owners.  I hope to God they see the potential in this club.  We were getting 41,000 for mid-table games not so long ago, we are getting those sorts of crowds now for upper table games.  Topping the table for average crowds I believe?  Just how good might things be in the Premier Division?  If we fail to go up this season, I hope they see the potential and continue to back the management team, making sure that we get off to a better start next season and maintain the momentum throughout the campaign. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Pat McMahon on April 23, 2019, 10:14:51 PM
The best thing they've done is employ Purslow and keep quiet. A proper administrator with experience not being undermined by a vocal owner is almost like they taken the mistakes made by the last 2 owners and been determined not to repeat them.

That was possibly Randy's biggest failing. He stayed in the background but didn't employ anyone decent to run it.

Out of his depth really. This became obvious when the money dried up.

I'm not sure the money dried up, he probably just lost interest.

Villa gave him quite a battering in his pocket. That and the financial crash

Somebody with a link to one of our former American players told Chico a few years ago that Lerner’s mom had put a pocket money cap on his investment in the Villa as she didn’t want him squandering the family fortune. The number I have in my head is £400m.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on April 23, 2019, 10:21:09 PM
I think in hindsight MON should have been given total control of first team matters but some kind of DOF was needed regarding the structure of the club in general. I was a big fan of MON but like most managers it was all about the here and now and results. That is fine so long as someone else at the club has an eye on the bigger long term picture.

We needed someone who could have stopped MON dishing out lengthy contracts to older players like Heskey and Given. Steve Stride would have been perfect in that role.

Maybe Steve Stride would have been a good middle man/go between in the Randy Lerner/Martin O'Neill relationship but whilst their was clearly mutual respect between Stride and SGT and Stride and BFR I am not sure Stride and MON would have made for happy bedfellows.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2019, 10:21:20 PM
Something just over £200 million is usually reckoned to be the cost. Or, to repeat myself again, £20 every time anyone entered Villa Park, whether for a match, a corporate meeting or just to ask directions to the M6. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on April 23, 2019, 10:23:06 PM
I think in hindsight MON should have been given total control of first team matters but some kind of DOF was needed regarding the structure of the club in general. I was a big fan of MON but like most managers it was all about the here and now and results. That is fine so long as someone else at the club has an eye on the bigger long term picture.

We needed someone who could have stopped MON dishing out lengthy contracts to older players like Heskey and Given. Steve Stride would have been perfect in that role.

MON didn't sign Given, McLeish did.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on April 23, 2019, 11:29:25 PM

Somebody with a link to one of our former American players told Chico a few years ago that Lerner’s mom had put a pocket money cap on his investment in the Villa as she didn’t want him squandering the family fortune. The number I have in my head is £400m.

That rings true, especially with all the funds in a trust.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on April 23, 2019, 11:50:06 PM
I think in hindsight MON should have been given total control of first team matters but some kind of DOF was needed regarding the structure of the club in general. I was a big fan of MON but like most managers it was all about the here and now and results. That is fine so long as someone else at the club has an eye on the bigger long term picture.

Surely the problem was that MON WAS given total control of the football side of the club and acted as DoF, Manager and Coach at the same time. He was out of date when we appointed him and did nothing to disprove that in his time at the helm. A third of a billion spunked up the wall and not a trophy or CL qualification to show for it and has been found out in every job he’s had since. And MON would have walked sooner if we’d insisted on a DoF as he saw himself as a Clough/Shankly/Busby figure the only drawback being he had about 1/10th of the ability.

Lerner was an inept a charlatan as Xia it was just hidden behind the money he threw at it for the first 3 or so years. As soon as he stopped the money his disinterest and appalling executive and managerial choices meant only one inevitable result.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dougs Socks on April 24, 2019, 12:20:56 AM
Personally, for me it's not the money being spent, but the fact there seems to be a long term strategy. I really believe that we are going places with these two guys. The transformation since the summer is down to these guys.  I mean, people actually knowing what they are doing....who would of thought lol.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FatSam on April 24, 2019, 01:04:58 AM
Yes, Lerner certainly put money in, but he seemed to be under the impression that with MON in place, that was all that he needed to do. His attitude seemed to be ‘in Martin we trust’ which is perhaps why he was so very obviously hurt when MON walked.

At this time we were outspending the likes of Everton and Spurs, but getting nothing to show for it. With hindsight there was an opportunity to break into the top four, which probably won’t come along again - especially since the Abu Dhabi money, and now FFP has come in. The big clubs were busy making themselves self-sustainable, by increasing their revenues and building scouting and youth development.

We ultimately have nothing to show for Lerner’s involvement. The greatest achievement, and it was some achievement, was to get a founding member of the Premier League relegated after 24 continuous seasons in the most financially successful league ever. I’m fairly confident that none of the other founding members who are yet to be relegated ever will be.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on April 24, 2019, 08:25:52 AM
he came, he saw, he squandered.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: lovejoy on April 24, 2019, 08:48:42 AM
To be fair, didn't he upgrade the training facilities?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on April 24, 2019, 09:33:58 AM
I think in hindsight MON should have been given total control of first team matters but some kind of DOF was needed regarding the structure of the club in general. I was a big fan of MON but like most managers it was all about the here and now and results. That is fine so long as someone else at the club has an eye on the bigger long term picture.

Surely the problem was that MON WAS given total control of the football side of the club and acted as DoF, Manager and Coach at the same time. He was out of date when we appointed him and did nothing to disprove that in his time at the helm. A third of a billion spunked up the wall and not a trophy or CL qualification to show for it and has been found out in every job he’s had since. And MON would have walked sooner if we’d insisted on a DoF as he saw himself as a Clough/Shankly/Busby figure the only drawback being he had about 1/10th of the ability.

Lerner was an inept a charlatan as Xia it was just hidden behind the money he threw at it for the first 3 or so years. As soon as he stopped the money his disinterest and appalling executive and managerial choices meant only one inevitable result.


I don't recall too many people saying MON was 'out of date' when we appointed him. As I recall he was a very popular choice. Prior to taking a year off to spend time with his ill wife his successful spells at Leicester and
Celtic had made him some peoples choice for the England job as well as a lot of big club jobs.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on April 24, 2019, 09:37:20 AM
MON was not out of date at all and I don't remember people saying that at the time either. From memory, didn't some fans turn up at the ground the day he held his press conference?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on April 24, 2019, 09:41:50 AM
To be fair, didn't he upgrade the training facilities?

To be fair I don't think he had much choice. As I recall Doug had left the upgrade half finished because he didn't want to spend any more cash.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dave P on April 24, 2019, 09:43:06 AM
Yeah but where were they on a freezing, dismal February night in Brentford?

Purslow and Pitach were at Brentford. I stood right by them.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 24, 2019, 11:11:53 AM
Yeah but where were they on a freezing, dismal February night in Brentford?

Purslow and Pitach were at Brentford. I stood right by them.

If we do go up this year I'll be delighted, but also furious that we were so fucking shit every time we turned up at my local ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on April 24, 2019, 12:56:32 PM
What's the situation with FFP if we do get promoted? Do all our FFP issues go away or will we still be restricted in terms of what we can spend? I thought FFP were rules were different in the Premier League and only apply if you qualify for Europe...but I've been told recently that this is not the case?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 24, 2019, 01:01:52 PM
We’ll be minted if we go up and we will just go and buy Messi and Mbappe and De Ligt to play next to Mings.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on April 24, 2019, 02:28:41 PM
We’ll be minted if we go up and we will just go and buy Messi and Mbappe and De Ligt to play next to Mings.

That would be some back 4
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on April 26, 2019, 12:57:34 PM
A sunny delight.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 10, 2019, 04:59:51 PM
Our Wes Edens sat next to Aaron Rodgers of the Green Bay Packers and his new girlfriend Nascar driver Danica Patrick at the Bucks vs Boston game the other night sporting a lovely top

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6Fo3fvWwAAf0Hg.jpg:large)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on May 10, 2019, 05:01:55 PM
His daughter next to him on her phone. Probably texting me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 10, 2019, 05:03:58 PM
It looks like Brett Favre next to her so she probably received one of his dick pics.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on May 10, 2019, 05:31:46 PM
His daughter next to him on her phone. Probably texting me.

*Pls leave me alone u weird fucka*
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 10, 2019, 05:59:34 PM
His daughter next to him on her phone. Probably texting me.

“Fuck off I’m 14”
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on May 10, 2019, 06:06:07 PM
Anyone know if owners here for either of semi final legs ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 10, 2019, 08:24:16 PM
Yeah but where were they on a freezing, dismal February night in Brentford?

Purslow and Pitach were at Brentford. I stood right by them.

I was outside the club shop after the Norwich game, and Tyrone Mings stopped in his car to sign some autographs.

Behind him was Pitarch (in a white BMW x6, car fans), with his window open.

He really does look remarkably like Richard Madeley.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on May 10, 2019, 08:39:32 PM
Yeah but where were they on a freezing, dismal February night in Brentford?

Purslow and Pitach were at Brentford. I stood right by them.

I was outside the club shop after the Norwich game, and Tyrone Mings stopped in his car to sign some autographs.

Behind him was Pitarch (in a white BMW x6, car fans), with his window open.

He really does look remarkably like Richard Madeley.

I bet the poor sod is wondering the security guards keep following him around Tescos
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on May 10, 2019, 09:31:04 PM
Nice sight for us co Villa/Packers fans!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andrew08 on May 10, 2019, 09:50:21 PM
Nice sight for us co Villa/Packers fans!

Indeed.. need to see Rodgers in a Villa cap soon.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 10, 2019, 11:24:48 PM
No we fucking don't.

Regards,

The H&V Chicago Bears Contingent.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on May 11, 2019, 02:44:17 PM
Both at the game today, they must see it’s a bloody good investment and can only get better....hope they both enjoyed
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on May 13, 2019, 01:15:27 PM
Aston Villa's owners have just made this subtle change on Companies House

Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens were both in attendance along with CEO Christian Purslow as Villa beat West Bromwich Albion on Saturday
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An Aston Villa company under the control of the club’s billionaire owners has changed its name – with a nod both towards Villa Park and Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens.

Recon Football Limited, a subsidiary of Villa’s group parent company Recon Group UK Limited, has unveiled a new name, via Companies House.

Villa were taken over by NSWE SCS, a company jointly owned by Nassef Sawiris’ group NNS and businessman Wes Edens, in July last year.

 
At that time, the pair took control from Tony Xia’s Zhejiang Ruikang Investment Co. Ltd vehicle and immediately injected capital to help keep Villa afloat.

Through its ownership structure, NSWE SCS controls Recon Football Limited.

As of 13 May, Recon Football Limited has adopted a new name including the NSWE title: NSWE Stadium Limited.


I wonder if any of that is part leaning towards increasing assets value and FFP compliance ?
Ground re naming perhaps ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: GarTomas on May 13, 2019, 01:35:51 PM
Accountants and finance folk to the thread please.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on May 13, 2019, 03:04:13 PM
You know I wonder just what these guys will spend if we get up this year and have a clean financial slate

They certainly have it - wonder if they want to spend it

Days like Saturday - where the atmosphere at times was as electric as the drama of the 2nd half must reassure them we were a great purchase
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on May 13, 2019, 06:01:45 PM
The most obvious answer would be an impending group reorg where the stadium ownership gets moved to a different group company to the football club operations.

Splitting trade and assets within a group structure is a fairly standard risk management strategy.

The only thing that's odd here is that that company is a subsidiary whereas you'd normally put assets higher up the group structure than the trading activities which makes me think a group reorg may be on the way.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on May 13, 2019, 07:45:45 PM
Are we likely to do a Derby County and sell the ground to the owner?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on May 13, 2019, 08:17:48 PM
Who knows. If they did it would significantly reduce the price if they ever wanted to sell us so I'd be surprised.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 13, 2019, 09:06:07 PM
Who knows. If they did it would significantly reduce the price if they ever wanted to sell us so I'd be surprised.

Would they not be able to 'buy' it back ahead of such a sale?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on May 13, 2019, 09:22:50 PM
Who knows. If they did it would significantly reduce the price if they ever wanted to sell us so I'd be surprised.

Would they not be able to 'buy' it back ahead of such a sale?

They would but what would be the point? Plus they'd probably end up with a huge tax bill.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 13, 2019, 09:25:46 PM
Who knows. If they did it would significantly reduce the price if they ever wanted to sell us so I'd be surprised.

Would they not be able to 'buy' it back ahead of such a sale?

They would but what would be the point? Plus they'd probably end up with a huge tax bill.

I have no idea what I'm talking about, but if they made the stadium an asset of the club again before a sale then would that not reinflate the asking price?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 13, 2019, 09:27:22 PM
You know I wonder just what these guys will spend if we get up this year and have a clean financial slate

They certainly have it - wonder if they want to spend it

Days like Saturday - where the atmosphere at times was as electric as the drama of the 2nd half must reassure them we were a great purchase

And that, ladies & gentlemen, is what's making the other lot's heads spin.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on May 13, 2019, 09:27:29 PM
Who knows. If they did it would significantly reduce the price if they ever wanted to sell us so I'd be surprised.

Would they not be able to 'buy' it back ahead of such a sale?

They would but what would be the point? Plus they'd probably end up with a huge tax bill.

I have no idea what I'm talking about, but if they made the stadium an asset of the club again before a sale then would that not reinflate the asking price?

It would, but then what would be the point in taking it out of the club in the first place if that was what they were going to do?

And the sale back to the club would trigger a tax liability on them which could be avoided if they leave the ground in the club in the first place.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Richard E on May 13, 2019, 09:28:15 PM
Not too worried about the technical details - cutting to the chase, how long is it before we overtake Man City then?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 13, 2019, 09:36:14 PM
If we get promoted, we will be above them one second later.

Still below Arsenal and AFC Bournemouth, though. 😡
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 13, 2019, 09:44:26 PM
Who knows. If they did it would significantly reduce the price if they ever wanted to sell us so I'd be surprised.

Would they not be able to 'buy' it back ahead of such a sale?

They would but what would be the point? Plus they'd probably end up with a huge tax bill.

I have no idea what I'm talking about, but if they made the stadium an asset of the club again before a sale then would that not reinflate the asking price?

It would, but then what would be the point in taking it out of the club in the first place if that was what they were going to do?

And the sale back to the club would trigger a tax liability on them which could be avoided if they leave the ground in the club in the first place.
[/quote
Who knows. If they did it would significantly reduce the price if they ever wanted to sell us so I'd be surprised.

Would they not be able to 'buy' it back ahead of such a sale?

They would but what would be the point? Plus they'd probably end up with a huge tax bill.

I have no idea what I'm talking about, but if they made the stadium an asset of the club again before a sale then would that not reinflate the asking price?

It would, but then what would be the point in taking it out of the club in the first place if that was what they were going to do?

And the sale back to the club would trigger a tax liability on them which could be avoided if they leave the ground in the club in the first place.

FFP if we don't go up?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 13, 2019, 09:58:29 PM
I'm not angry at you for that quote fail SE, just very disappointed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 13, 2019, 10:02:58 PM
Fucking state of that quote.

*shakes head.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 13, 2019, 10:04:59 PM
I'm not angry at you for that quote fail SE, just very disappointed.

I've let myself down, and I'll be disappointed when I see it again. There were mitigating circumstances in that I was using my left hand. I was holding a crumpet in my right hand and I'm all right hand. It's always been my weakness as a poster. It's why I never got the recognition I deserved with a call-up to BTL at the Guardian, or writing into podcasts. I did get an offer once to represent TBAR but my heart wouldn't have been in it. You want to post at the top level really.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: fbriai on May 13, 2019, 10:18:15 PM
A poster with your experience should never be making mistakes like that, SE. The crumpet should be in the left hand! I'd keep you behind after work for extra training.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 13, 2019, 10:27:58 PM
A poster with your experience should never be making mistakes like that, SE. The crumpet should be in the left hand! I'd keep you behind after work for extra training.

Trust me, fbrai, nobody's hurting more than me. I just need to keep my head down and start proving people wrong, which is what it's all about, which in itself is a terrible way to live a life when you think about it.

A word from my manager: "ah hink SE's quote was excellent. Some eh the punctuation wis world class, it wis. Aye, it's no purfict, but you show me a quote thut is. If he quotes like that nixt post there'll be no complaints from me."
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: fbriai on May 13, 2019, 10:31:28 PM
Paul Lambert is your manager!? That explains it all to be fair.

You go again, SE. You go again.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: adrenachrome on May 13, 2019, 10:39:15 PM
I'm not angry at you for that quote fail SE, just very disappointed.

I've let myself down, and I'll be disappointed when I see it again. There were mitigating circumstances in that I was using my left hand. I was holding a crumpet in my right hand and I'm all right hand. It's always been my weakness as a poster. It's why I never got the recognition I deserved with a call-up to BTL at the Guardian, or writing into podcasts. I did get an offer once to represent TBAR but my heart wouldn't have been in it. You want to post at the top level really.

In the not too distant past, having a bit of crumpet in your right hand to excuse epic quote failure would have elicited an entirely different range of responses.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on May 14, 2019, 08:22:09 AM
You can always spot a robot.  The real SE has been to Birmingham enough times and had social intercourse with those of us from the Eternit City never to use the 'C' word.   It is a pikelet he would have had in his right hand.

Eternit is the trade name for asbestos sheeting.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sister of Top Cat on May 14, 2019, 08:27:23 AM
You can always spot a robot.  The real SE has been to Birmingham enough times and had social intercourse with those of us from the Eternit City never to use the 'C' word.   It is a pikelet he would have had in his right hand.

Eternit is the trade name for asbestos sheeting.
Brian - I was just about to post about it being a pikelet too :)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on May 14, 2019, 09:41:12 AM
You can always spot a robot.  The real SE has been to Birmingham enough times and had social intercourse with those of us from the Eternit City never to use the 'C' word.   It is a pikelet he would have had in his right hand.

Eternit is the trade name for asbestos sheeting.
Brian - I was just about to post about it being a pikelet too :)

They're two different things.

Crumpet is baked in a ring whereas a pikelet is more of a free shape. The dough isn't as thick in a pikelet.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 14, 2019, 11:21:42 AM
It's still a bloody pikelet, even if it f****ng says "crumpet" on the packet.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 14, 2019, 11:22:25 AM
Sorry, pikelit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 14, 2019, 12:21:46 PM
This is the first time I've ever heard of pikelets. What a day for it all to go wrong.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 14, 2019, 12:34:02 PM
Pikelets are great.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on May 14, 2019, 12:44:35 PM
And different to crumpets.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 14, 2019, 12:48:40 PM
What everyone else in the country ( incorrectly) calls a crumpet is actually a pikelet. I don't care what Warburtons put on their packaging, they're wrong. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 14, 2019, 12:51:08 PM
We will probably get some debate on here as it seems to vary from region to region. Especially if we get people from Arctic tundra like Drummond chipping in.

But to me, this is what pikelets looks like...


(https://i.ibb.co/4RNsdb1/DAdno-Wa-Xc-AMy-Pm-W.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RNsdb1)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 14, 2019, 12:53:17 PM
We will probably get some debate on here as it seems to vary from region to region. Especially if we get people from Arctic tundra like Drummond chipping in.

But to me, this is what pikelets looks like...


(https://i.ibb.co/4RNsdb1/DAdno-Wa-Xc-AMy-Pm-W.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RNsdb1)


Yep
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on May 14, 2019, 12:59:43 PM
We will probably get some debate on here as it seems to vary from region to region. Especially if we get people from Arctic tundra like Drummond chipping in.

But to me, this is what pikelets looks like...


(https://i.ibb.co/4RNsdb1/DAdno-Wa-Xc-AMy-Pm-W.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RNsdb1)


Yep

Yep. Proper pikelets.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Stu82 on May 14, 2019, 01:04:21 PM
that there is a pikelet
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: UK Redsox on May 14, 2019, 01:04:21 PM
I've no idea what's been going on for the past couple of pages but it's H&V at its finest
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: fbriai on May 14, 2019, 01:11:18 PM
Probably best to drop SE to the bench tonight, until the whole pikelet-crumpet storm blows over. Tomorrow's chip paper and all that.

Could you imagine the palaver if he accidentally referred to an island as a roundabout tonight? We'd never hear the end of it.

Let's just say he's strained his groin or something.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on May 14, 2019, 01:13:06 PM
We will probably get some debate on here as it seems to vary from region to region. Especially if we get people from Arctic tundra like Drummond chipping in.

But to me, this is what pikelets looks like...


(https://i.ibb.co/4RNsdb1/DAdno-Wa-Xc-AMy-Pm-W.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RNsdb1)



Always was and always will be.  Them's Pikelets.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 14, 2019, 01:14:06 PM
Probably best to drop SE to the bench tonight, until the whole pikelet-crumpet storm blows over. Tomorrow's chip paper and all that.

Could you imagine the palaver if he accidentally referred to an island as a roundabout tonight? We'd never hear the end of it.

Let's just say he's strained his groin or something.

Strained his groin whilst gambolling over an island
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on May 14, 2019, 01:15:31 PM
Black Country born and bred, but those are still crumpets to me.  Sorry.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: fbriai on May 14, 2019, 01:17:23 PM
Probably best to drop SE to the bench tonight, until the whole pikelet-crumpet storm blows over. Tomorrow's chip paper and all that.

Could you imagine the palaver if he accidentally referred to an island as a roundabout tonight? We'd never hear the end of it.

Let's just say he's strained his groin or something.

Strained his groin whilst gambolling over an island

Whilst running to catch the buzz.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on May 14, 2019, 01:30:52 PM
We will probably get some debate on here as it seems to vary from region to region. Especially if we get people from Arctic tundra like Drummond chipping in.

But to me, this is what pikelets looks like...


(https://i.ibb.co/4RNsdb1/DAdno-Wa-Xc-AMy-Pm-W.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RNsdb1)


<throws oil on fire>

Nope they’re Crumpets. Pikelets are thinner and wider.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 14, 2019, 01:32:58 PM
We will probably get some debate on here as it seems to vary from region to region. Especially if we get people from Arctic tundra like Drummond chipping in.

But to me, this is what pikelets looks like...


(https://i.ibb.co/4RNsdb1/DAdno-Wa-Xc-AMy-Pm-W.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RNsdb1)


<throws oil on fire>

Nope they’re Crumpets. Pikelets are thinner and wider.



No they're not, the thin wide ones are just shit pikelets.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on May 14, 2019, 01:41:30 PM
Blatantly crumpets. The pikelet brigade are way off...they are much thinner than a crumpet.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 14, 2019, 01:44:04 PM
It was always the posh families that called them crumpets round our way
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 14, 2019, 01:50:34 PM
That seems to be the divide in my work, too. Or at least those that feign poshness. It won't be any surpise to learn that the girl who thinks they are crumpets also pronounces bath and Solihull incorrectly (barth and Sew-lee-hull).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 14, 2019, 01:51:06 PM
Blatantly crumpets. The pikelet brigade are way off...they are much thinner than a crumpet.

Thin pikelets are just shit pikelets.

Edit: I see Chico has made exactly the same point! 😂

He's always talked a lot of sense.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on May 14, 2019, 01:57:50 PM
so pikelets aren't fish? We always left this sort of thing to Nanny.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on May 14, 2019, 01:59:18 PM
I used to run a bakery. We sold both crumpets and pikelets. Same ingredients, but for pikelets the batter was poured directly onto the griddle and allowed to find its own form, inevitably turning out thinner than the crumpets, which were cooked in ring moulds.

That said I do live in a Shire, so my experience counts for naught.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on May 14, 2019, 01:59:26 PM
Do you both incorrectly identify baps and bread rolls as cobs too? :P
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 14, 2019, 02:02:42 PM
Do you both incorrectly identify baps and bread rolls as cobs too?

Most certainly. 😊
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on May 14, 2019, 02:05:44 PM
Neanderthals!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on May 14, 2019, 02:11:07 PM
Jesus, this thread is taking an unexpectedly dark turn...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 14, 2019, 02:12:12 PM
Bloody crumpets, honestly.

Thanos was right. Well, he shouldn't have stopped at 50%.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: usav on May 14, 2019, 02:18:49 PM
We will probably get some debate on here as it seems to vary from region to region. Especially if we get people from Arctic tundra like Drummond chipping in.

But to me, this is what pikelets looks like...


(https://i.ibb.co/4RNsdb1/DAdno-Wa-Xc-AMy-Pm-W.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RNsdb1)


<throws oil on fire>

Nope they’re Crumpets. Pikelets are thinner and wider.



No they're not, the thin wide ones are just shit pikelets.

So we are back to where we started then that they are just different words for the same thing?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 14, 2019, 02:20:33 PM
We will probably get some debate on here as it seems to vary from region to region. Especially if we get people from Arctic tundra like Drummond chipping in.

But to me, this is what pikelets looks like...


(https://i.ibb.co/4RNsdb1/DAdno-Wa-Xc-AMy-Pm-W.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RNsdb1)


<throws oil on fire>

Nope they’re Crumpets. Pikelets are thinner and wider.



No they're not, the thin wide ones are just shit pikelets.

So we are back to where we started then that they are just different words for the same thing?

Yep. But only one is the correct word. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: usav on May 14, 2019, 02:22:12 PM

Yep. But only one is the correct word.

Probably a regional thing, my Mom was born in Smethwick (poor sod) and so they were definitely pikelets when I was growing up, even in posh Solihull.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 14, 2019, 02:27:19 PM

Yep. But only one is the correct word.

Probably a regional thing, my Mom was born in Smethwick (poor sod) and so they were definitely pikelets when I was growing up, even in posh Solihull.

Absolutely a regional thing. The effing stinking jellied eel pie merchants I talk to down here have never heard of pikelets.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on May 14, 2019, 02:29:06 PM
I used to run a bakery. We sold both crumpets and pikelets. Same ingredients, but for pikelets the batter was poured directly onto the griddle and allowed to find its own form, inevitably turning out thinner than the crumpets, which were cooked in ring moulds.

That said I do live in a Shire, so my experience counts for naught.

That's how I always understood it as well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 14, 2019, 02:31:20 PM
I've honestly never had one of these thin pikelets in my life.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on May 14, 2019, 02:33:26 PM
I've honestly never had one of these thin pikelets in my life.

So you’ve never had a pikelet then😜
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on May 14, 2019, 02:34:53 PM
*the moment of sudden realisation that Chico has been eating crumpets all his life*
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 14, 2019, 02:35:24 PM
I've honestly never had one of these thin pikelets in my life.

So you’ve never had a pikelet then😜

Eat em all the time kidder - the proper thick ones, none of them thin northern nancy "pikelets"
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on May 14, 2019, 02:44:00 PM
I've honestly never had one of these thin pikelets in my life.

So you’ve never had a pikelet then😜

Eat em all the time kidder - the proper thick ones, none of them thin northern nancy "pikelets"

To be fair you’re right, too much Lancs/York’s influence up here in Northern Mercia.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 14, 2019, 02:47:06 PM
I've honestly never had one of these thin pikelets in my life.

So you’ve never had a pikelet then😜

Eat em all the time kidder - the proper thick ones, none of them thin northern nancy "pikelets"

To be fair you’re right, too much Lancs/York’s influence up here in Northern Mercia.

They should stick to their oven bottom muffins
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on May 14, 2019, 03:12:28 PM
Jesus, this thread is taking an unexpectedly dark turn...

Just wait until someone drags the old 'Biscuit Thread' out again. Many friendships have ended on here regarding what does or does not constitute a biscuit.

As for pikelets/crumpets I thought it was a generational thing as my parents say pikelets and my wife, daughters and I say crumpets. But apparently a pikelet is thinner and has more 'freedom in shape', whatever that means.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 14, 2019, 03:14:29 PM
No, a pikelet is NOT thinner. Unless it is a shit pikelet.

Honestly, how many times do we have to go over this?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 14, 2019, 03:21:25 PM
No, a pikelet is NOT thinner. Unless it is a shit pikelet.

A shitelet, if you will.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on May 14, 2019, 03:26:14 PM
I hope some Albion fans find their way onto H&V today to find out what we are saying about tonights game and discover we are all more interested in a Villa family argument about the difference between a pikelet and a crumpet. ;D
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on May 14, 2019, 03:31:53 PM
I hope some Albion fans find their way onto H&V today to find out what we are saying about tonights game and discover we are all more interested in a Villa family argument about the difference between a pikelet and a crumpet. ;D

It’s not up there with Owls/Gibbons yet but this is a hill I’m willing to suffer some minor discomfort on.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: fbriai on May 14, 2019, 03:34:03 PM
We will probably get some debate on here as it seems to vary from region to region. Especially if we get people from Arctic tundra like Drummond chipping in.

But to me, this is what pikelets looks like...


(https://i.ibb.co/4RNsdb1/DAdno-Wa-Xc-AMy-Pm-W.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RNsdb1)


I've been thinking on this all afternoon. These were definitely pikelets for us. But I can remember the word crumpet as well. I don't think I could tell you the difference between them though.

Is that the equivalent of a half-and-half scarf in this debate?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Fred Crump on May 14, 2019, 03:35:39 PM
Villa 2-1. Now to return to the serious stuff , it’s definitely Pikelets. All shapes, all sizes. And they must only ever have lots of butter on.
 FFS, we will be calling buzzes buses next if we let standards slip like this.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Fred Crump on May 14, 2019, 03:39:14 PM
And before anyone suggests it, no, I’m not changing my name to Fred Pikelet. Although it does have a certain ring to it...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on May 14, 2019, 03:44:12 PM
We will probably get some debate on here as it seems to vary from region to region. Especially if we get people from Arctic tundra like Drummond chipping in.

But to me, this is what pikelets looks like...


(https://i.ibb.co/4RNsdb1/DAdno-Wa-Xc-AMy-Pm-W.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RNsdb1)


<throws oil on fire>

Nope they’re Crumpets. Pikelets are thinner and wider.



No they're not, the thin wide ones are just shit pikelets.

So we are back to where we started then that they are just different words for the same thing?


Different words for the same thing in my opinion. That is a picture of some pikelets. It is also a picture of some crumpets.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: GarTomas on May 14, 2019, 03:55:04 PM
And before anyone suggests it, no, I’m not changing my name to Fred Pikelet. Although it does have a certain ring to it...

Shurely just Fred Pikel?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Fred Crump on May 14, 2019, 04:00:46 PM
You’re right. It’s my kids who would be pikelets
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 14, 2019, 04:02:37 PM
No, a pikelet is NOT thinner. Unless it is a shit pikelet.

A shitelet, if you will.

*Nods sagely.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dicedlam on May 14, 2019, 04:10:16 PM
Pikelets to the working classes.
Crumpets to the privileged.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on May 14, 2019, 04:14:04 PM
Mrs LV has a big Stokie influence and they are apparently crumpets... however they were always pikelets and were a regular tea on a Sunday night after a big Sunday dinner... don't forget your routes!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on May 14, 2019, 04:18:04 PM
Villa 2-1. Now to return to the serious stuff , it’s definitely Pikelets. All shapes, all sizes. And they must only ever have lots of butter on.
 FFS, we will be calling buzzes buses next if we let standards slip like this.
Lashings of butter...but I also recommend adding either strawberry jam or peanut butter. Admittedly not one for the more traditional crumpet (or even pikelet) muncher! 😂
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Moose on May 14, 2019, 04:19:33 PM
Or marmite.....
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ian c. on May 14, 2019, 04:20:32 PM
Crumpets are cooked (at least initially) in a metal ring so they hold their round form. Pikelets are just poured into the pan and spread a little meaning they are thinner and less well defined than a crumpet if the same amount of batter is used.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: IFWaters on May 14, 2019, 04:31:40 PM
where is the linguistic border between crumpetland and pikeyville ? I grew up in Derby and it was definitely pikeys there.

we also said sc-OH-nes NOT sc-ON-es because the latter was for posh twats

and CASSLE not CARHSLE
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: IFWaters on May 14, 2019, 04:32:48 PM
where is the linguistic border between crumpetland and pikeyville ? I grew up in Derby and it was definitely pikeys there.

we also said sc-OH-nes NOT sc-ON-es because the latter was for posh twats

and CASSLE not CARHSLE

id just like to confirm that when I said posh twats I wasnt referring to my wife. But she is posh.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on May 14, 2019, 04:38:05 PM
Pikelet apparently derives from the Welsh "pyglyd", so less North-South and more East-West?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on May 14, 2019, 04:38:25 PM
I think it's time we got back to trying to batter tonight's opposition.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 14, 2019, 04:39:33 PM
Scone rhymes with gone, not cone. Otherwise you're the posh twat. 😉

I can confirm this as that's how all posh twats I know pronounce the word. See also: pronouncing "bath" like it has an "r" in it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on May 14, 2019, 05:14:22 PM
Crumpets are cooked (at least initially) in a metal ring so they hold their round form. Pikelets are just poured into the pan and spread a little meaning they are thinner and less well defined than a crumpet if the same amount of batter is used.

Correct.
Now I'm eating a 'scowne' whilst running a 'barth'.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Smith on May 14, 2019, 05:16:33 PM
Pikelets to the working classes.
Crumpets to the privileged.

Blimey, I used to be working class but due to the malign influence of my better half I am now privileged. It must be her Smethwick upbringing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 14, 2019, 05:23:53 PM
Pikelet apparently derives from the Welsh "pyglyd", so less North-South and more East-West?

Thank you for this nugget of information.
*trots off to confront the Welsh speaking missus who moments ago claimed to have never heard of the word "pikelet"*
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: usav on May 14, 2019, 05:27:08 PM
Pikelet apparently derives from the Welsh "pyglyd", so less North-South and more East-West?

Thank you for this nugget of information.
*trots off to confront the Welsh speaking missus who moments ago claimed to have never heard of the word "pikelet"*

That would be because she calls it "pyglyd"

Pronounced pcccccckkkkkklllllllllllhhhhhhhhhhhhggggggggddddddd
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on May 14, 2019, 05:35:48 PM
That seems to be the divide in my work, too. Or at least those that feign poshness. It won't be any surpise to learn that the girl who thinks they are crumpets also pronounces bath and Solihull incorrectly (barth and Sew-lee-hull).

I like her.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on May 14, 2019, 06:14:09 PM
Right. I have knocked up a batch of batter.

For the avoidance of doubt, the pikelets - pyglyd (pitchy bread) - or "poor man's crumpets" (so called because the making of pikelets infers that one isn't well orf enough to own a crumpet ring - are the freeform items going crisp around the edges on the outside. Absolutely textbook.

The crumpet is in the ring and is a crumpet.

I'm cooking them on buttered greaseproof direct on the slow ring of the Aga. That's how we roll in the Shires - and anyway, the servants are away and I haven't a clue how the washing up works.


(https://i.ibb.co/QHKz1z4/DSCN0414.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QHKz1z4)


(https://i.ibb.co/vwqKRfb/DSCN0416.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vwqKRfb)


(https://i.ibb.co/VWQzfJs/DSCN0417.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VWQzfJs)


I will be eating them with butter and Golden Syrup.

Fuck The Albion.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on May 14, 2019, 06:18:29 PM
Right. I have knocked up a batch of batter.

For the avoidance of doubt, the pikelets - pyglyd (pitchy bread) - or "poor man's crumpets" (so called because the making of pikelets infers that one isn't well orf enough to own a crumpet ring - are the freeform items going crisp around the edges on the outside. Absolutely textbook.

The crumpet is in the ring and is a crumpet.

I'm cooking them on buttered greaseproof direct on the slow ring of the Aga. That's how we roll in the Shires - and anyway, the servants are away and I haven't a clue how the washing up works.


(https://i.ibb.co/QHKz1z4/DSCN0414.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QHKz1z4)


(https://i.ibb.co/vwqKRfb/DSCN0416.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vwqKRfb)


(https://i.ibb.co/VWQzfJs/DSCN0417.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VWQzfJs)


I will be eating them with butter and Golden Syrup.

Fuck The Albion.

Well, I think that settles that debate once and for all.  Definitive, and with actual workings out shown. Nice.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on May 14, 2019, 06:22:58 PM
Right. I have knocked up a batch of batter.

For the avoidance of doubt, the pikelets - pyglyd (pitchy bread) - or "poor man's crumpets" (so called because the making of pikelets infers that one isn't well orf enough to own a crumpet ring - are the freeform items going crisp around the edges on the outside. Absolutely textbook.

The crumpet is in the ring and is a crumpet.

I'm cooking them on buttered greaseproof direct on the slow ring of the Aga. That's how we roll in the Shires - and anyway, the servants are away and I haven't a clue how the washing up works.


(https://i.ibb.co/QHKz1z4/DSCN0414.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QHKz1z4)


(https://i.ibb.co/vwqKRfb/DSCN0416.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vwqKRfb)


(https://i.ibb.co/VWQzfJs/DSCN0417.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VWQzfJs)


I will be eating them with butter and Golden Syrup.

Fuck The Albion.

Well, I think that settles that debate once and for all.  Definitive, and with actual workings out shown. Nice.

The most important part of the whole recipe is to hum Fuck The Albion from the moment you sift the flour until you delicately pop the first one whole into your mouth once cooked. Then hum it again. They *will* taste better.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on May 14, 2019, 06:33:27 PM
Right. I have knocked up a batch of batter.

For the avoidance of doubt, the pikelets - pyglyd (pitchy bread) - or "poor man's crumpets" (so called because the making of pikelets infers that one isn't well orf enough to own a crumpet ring - are the freeform items going crisp around the edges on the outside. Absolutely textbook.

The crumpet is in the ring and is a crumpet.

I'm cooking them on buttered greaseproof direct on the slow ring of the Aga. That's how we roll in the Shires - and anyway, the servants are away and I haven't a clue how the washing up works.


(https://i.ibb.co/QHKz1z4/DSCN0414.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QHKz1z4)


(https://i.ibb.co/vwqKRfb/DSCN0416.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vwqKRfb)


(https://i.ibb.co/VWQzfJs/DSCN0417.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VWQzfJs)


I will be eating them with butter and Golden Syrup.

Fuck The Albion.

Well, I think that settles that debate once and for all.  Definitive, and with actual workings out shown. Nice.

The most important part of the whole recipe is to hum Fuck The Albion from the moment you sift the flour until you delicately pop the first one whole into your mouth once cooked. Then hum it again. They *will* taste better.

They look great, it's, pretty much, pancake batter with yeast isn't it?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on May 14, 2019, 06:37:12 PM
Spot on, Paul.

Don't forget the liberal sprinkling of Fuck The Albion, though if you don't have any in your cupboards a rendition of Super John McGinn shares the three-note phrase and can therefore be substituted if necessary.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smoke on May 14, 2019, 06:41:13 PM
Crumpets need to be burnt and with butter and marmite on.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on May 14, 2019, 06:42:07 PM
Spot on, Paul.

Don't forget the liberal sprinkling of Fuck The Albion, though if you don't have any in your cupboards a rendition of Super John McGinn shares the three-note phrase and can therefore be substituted if necessary.

I wouldn't dream of making them without that key ingredient.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on May 14, 2019, 06:44:45 PM
The magic of the burning comes in from the second cooking when you over-toast them.

I'm not even going to get started on the Marmite debate...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 14, 2019, 06:45:07 PM
Outstanding work Rodders. It's a good job you're in on your own.

"Why are you making crumpets, darling?"
"Well, you know how I support Aston Villa..."
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on May 14, 2019, 06:47:14 PM
Spot on, Paul.

Don't forget the liberal sprinkling of Fuck The Albion, though if you don't have any in your cupboards a rendition of Super John McGinn shares the three-note phrase and can therefore be substituted if necessary.

I wouldn't dream of making them without that key ingredient.

Or why not combine the two to blend the subtle nuances of each and make the dish your own?

"We've got McGinn
Fuck The Albion"

Or:

"Fuck The Albion,
Super John McGinn"
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on May 14, 2019, 06:49:01 PM
Outstanding work Rodders. It's a good job you're in on your own.

"Why are you making crumpets, darling?"
"Well, you know how I support Aston Villa..."

I wondered what the glint of binoculars across the valley was, SE. Pop over and have a crumplet! I mean piket.

Oh Fuck.

What do I mean?

HEINEKEN.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 14, 2019, 06:51:36 PM
Muffins is where it's at.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 14, 2019, 06:53:15 PM
I must decline. It's very important, football wise, that I see it at home, where I carry the name of the borough.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on May 14, 2019, 06:56:00 PM
Bravo, SE.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dicedlam on May 14, 2019, 07:14:49 PM
Crumpets need to be burnt and with butter and marmite on.

Not sure about the marmite, but definitely burnt and crispy on the top. You must then leave them to cool down a little and then spread a big dollop of cold butter across the top. The butter should never melt through the crumpet.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on May 14, 2019, 07:19:38 PM
Fuck, I thought we’d been bought out again.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: IFWaters on May 14, 2019, 07:29:05 PM
Right. I have knocked up a batch of batter.

For the avoidance of doubt, the pikelets - pyglyd (pitchy bread) - or "poor man's crumpets" (so called because the making of pikelets infers that one isn't well orf enough to own a crumpet ring - are the freeform items going crisp around the edges on the outside. Absolutely textbook.

The crumpet is in the ring and is a crumpet.

I'm cooking them on buttered greaseproof direct on the slow ring of the Aga. That's how we roll in the Shires - and anyway, the servants are away and I haven't a clue how the washing up works.


(https://i.ibb.co/QHKz1z4/DSCN0414.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QHKz1z4)


(https://i.ibb.co/vwqKRfb/DSCN0416.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vwqKRfb)


(https://i.ibb.co/VWQzfJs/DSCN0417.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VWQzfJs)


I will be eating them with butter and Golden Syrup.

Fuck The Albion.

Get a stall and sell them outside the Trinity.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on May 14, 2019, 07:56:27 PM
Right. I have knocked up a batch of batter.

For the avoidance of doubt, the pikelets - pyglyd (pitchy bread) - or "poor man's crumpets" (so called because the making of pikelets infers that one isn't well orf enough to own a crumpet ring - are the freeform items going crisp around the edges on the outside. Absolutely textbook.

The crumpet is in the ring and is a crumpet.

I'm cooking them on buttered greaseproof direct on the slow ring of the Aga. That's how we roll in the Shires - and anyway, the servants are away and I haven't a clue how the washing up works.


(https://i.ibb.co/QHKz1z4/DSCN0414.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QHKz1z4)


(https://i.ibb.co/vwqKRfb/DSCN0416.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vwqKRfb)


(https://i.ibb.co/VWQzfJs/DSCN0417.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VWQzfJs)


I will be eating them with butter and Golden Syrup.

Fuck The Albion.

Get a stall and sell them outside the Trinity.

I think my next baking effort will be some tatty scones for SJM as a reward for the hat trick he's going to score tonight!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on May 14, 2019, 08:03:36 PM
Top work! (and yes re butter and Marmite though I don't mind just butter) though they're good with peanut butter too...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on May 15, 2019, 08:24:38 PM
Speaking of crumpet, Mallory's changed her location to Birmingham and posted a nice pic in the VP tunnel with the caption "Off to Wembley like #UTV". Think she's warming to us.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on May 15, 2019, 09:18:04 PM
I want to read about investment here ... can’t u lot start a cooking thread !?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on May 15, 2019, 09:24:13 PM
I want to read about investment here ... can’t u lot start a cooking thread !?

Defo purchase a crumpet ring as an investment.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 15, 2019, 10:06:49 PM
I want to read about investment here ... can’t u lot start a cooking thread !?

Defo purchase a crumpet ring as an investment.

They're all crumpet rings once I've had a go...self censoring. Not appropriate.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on May 15, 2019, 10:27:50 PM
I have to say, the last few crumpet-related pages are probably the most british thing that i've ever experienced.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on May 15, 2019, 10:28:12 PM
This thread...

Abe Simpson gif. springs to mind.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: four fornicholl on May 15, 2019, 10:35:32 PM
Right. I have knocked up a batch of batter.

For the avoidance of doubt, the pikelets - pyglyd (pitchy bread) - or "poor man's crumpets" (so called because the making of pikelets infers that one isn't well orf enough to own a crumpet ring - are the freeform items going crisp around the edges on the outside. Absolutely textbook.

The crumpet is in the ring and is a crumpet.

I'm cooking them on buttered greaseproof direct on the slow ring of the Aga. That's how we roll in the Shires - and anyway, the servants are away and I haven't a clue how the washing up works.


(https://i.ibb.co/QHKz1z4/DSCN0414.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QHKz1z4)


(https://i.ibb.co/vwqKRfb/DSCN0416.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vwqKRfb)


(https://i.ibb.co/VWQzfJs/DSCN0417.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VWQzfJs)


I will be eating them with butter and Golden Syrup.

Fuck The Albion.

Get a stall and sell them outside the Trinity.

I think my next baking effort will be some tatty scones for SJM as a reward for the hat trick he's going to score tonight!
A potato cake is a fantastic accompliament to a full English. Fuck you derby.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on May 15, 2019, 10:38:07 PM
Fuck me, I've wondered in to Celebrity Bake-off.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: hilts_coolerking on May 15, 2019, 10:56:15 PM
Someone on the Leeds post-match thread on the Graun has posted this, any truth to it?

"The richest match in world football. And this year the most repellent.

Two teams who both cheated the profit and sustainability rules and whom the EFL didn’t have the balls even to question. One by running up losses of £130m in three years and brushing it off with things like selling the naming rights to the training ground (to themselves) and doubling the youth programme costs; the other by selling the ground to the owner for double market value and renting it back for a yield lower than a gilt.

And both disguised losses by hiving staff off to separate companies so the costs of wages did not fall on the football operations."
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on May 15, 2019, 11:02:11 PM
Someone on the Leeds post-match thread on the Graun has posted this, any truth to it?

"The richest match in world football. And this year the most repellent.

Two teams who both cheated the profit and sustainability rules and whom the EFL didn’t have the balls even to question. One by running up losses of £130m in three years and brushing it off with things like selling the naming rights to the training ground (to themselves) and doubling the youth programme costs; the other by selling the ground to the owner for double market value and renting it back for a yield lower than a gilt.

And both disguised losses by hiving staff off to separate companies so the costs of wages did not fall on the football operations."
Salty?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KevinGage on May 15, 2019, 11:27:38 PM
Yeah.  Who wouldn't want to get financial advice or moral guidelines from Leedzzz.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2019, 12:27:02 AM
90 minutes between us and the bank vault door being ripped off.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on May 16, 2019, 12:51:03 AM
It’s amazing how many FFP experts there are. Especially considering how complicated finance is and how much information is available.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hillbilly on May 16, 2019, 01:55:28 AM
Someone on the Leeds post-match thread on the Graun has posted this, any truth to it?

"The richest match in world football. And this year the most repellent.

Two teams who both cheated the profit and sustainability rules and whom the EFL didn’t have the balls even to question. One by running up losses of £130m in three years and brushing it off with things like selling the naming rights to the training ground (to themselves) and doubling the youth programme costs; the other by selling the ground to the owner for double market value and renting it back for a yield lower than a gilt.

And both disguised losses by hiving staff off to separate companies so the costs of wages did not fall on the football operations."
That's from a commenter called Vastariner, a Bluenose who piles in on any Villa related article. I think he drafts his anti-Villa screed on the wall of his basement in cat blood before posting on the Guardian.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: hilts_coolerking on May 16, 2019, 09:19:12 AM
That's from a commenter called Vastariner, a Bluenose who piles in on any Villa related article. I think he drafts his anti-Villa screed on the wall of his basement in cat blood before posting on the Guardian.
Maybe so but is there any truth in it?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on May 16, 2019, 09:25:34 AM
I’d imagine that the renaming of the training ground was done to ‘help’ with FFP as otherwise there wouldn’t have been much point. It may even have been done twice as the Recon logos no longer appear anywhere in it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on May 16, 2019, 10:34:12 AM

Someone on the Leeds post-match thread on the Graun has posted this, any truth to it?


"The richest match in world football. And this year the most repellent.


Two teams who both cheated the profit and sustainability rules and whom the EFL didn’t have the balls even to question. One by running up losses of £130m in three years and brushing it off with things like selling the naming rights to the training ground (to themselves) and doubling the youth programme costs; the other by selling the ground to the owner for double market value and renting it back for a yield lower than a gilt.


And both disguised losses by hiving staff off to separate companies so the costs of wages did not fall on the football operations."


It's the burblings of somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about:


Taking the issues in order:


Derby selling their ground to their owner.  As I said at the time, this "sale and leaseback" type agreement is standard business practice.  It's not a cheat, or a way around the rules.  Derby now no longer own their ground, and that has real, lasting implications.  As long as the transaction was at market rates, which it must be to satisfy FFP, it's a perfectly sesnible thing to do.


Doubling youth programme costs - so what?  These are ignored for FFP calculations anyway, so it doesn't matter if it's £1 or £100m


"And both disguised losses by hiving staff off to separate companies so the costs of wages did not fall on the football operations". Total bollocks, most football clubs have more than one company in the group, and produce consolidated accounts that basically accumulate all the profits and losses from all associated companies.  There's no way of hiding expenditure in the way they're describing.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: hilts_coolerking on May 16, 2019, 10:41:48 AM



It's the burblings of somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about:


Taking the issues in order:


Derby selling their ground to their owner.  As I said at the time, this "sale and leaseback" type agreement is standard business practice.  It's not a cheat, or a way around the rules.  Derby now no longer own their ground, and that has real, lasting implications.  As long as the transaction was at market rates, which it must be to satisfy FFP, it's a perfectly sesnible thing to do.


Doubling youth programme costs - so what?  These are ignored for FFP calculations anyway, so it doesn't matter if it's £1 or £100m


"And both disguised losses by hiving staff off to separate companies so the costs of wages did not fall on the football operations". Total bollocks, most football clubs have more than one company in the group, and produce consolidated accounts that basically accumulate all the profits and losses from all associated companies.  There's no way of hiding expenditure in the way they're describing.
Now this is what I was after.  Ta very much like.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on July 09, 2019, 04:05:41 PM
Companies house docs show our superb owners have injected yet another £30million  into club via share issue.
41,666,667 shares at £1each injected. Currently only 72% of the value has been paid at the time of issue with a value of just over £30 million.
The remaining 28p in the pound, or 11.7 million can be called at anytime by the club.

Who knows what it’s intended for .....additional for Webster and Phillips ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: clash city rocker on July 09, 2019, 04:20:14 PM
The investment they have made into our club has saved us from God knows what outcome. However they are both businessmen so where and when will the return on their investment happen ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 09, 2019, 04:22:41 PM
If we stay in the PL and sell players on at a profit, we will start to turn one.  A few PL clubs now are in profit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 09, 2019, 04:24:25 PM
The investment they have made into our club has saved us from God knows what outcome. However they are both businessmen so where and when will the return on their investment happen ?
Hopefully when this great football club is competing in the Champions League - dare we dream?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 09, 2019, 04:31:56 PM
If we stay in the PL and sell players on at a profit, we will start to turn one.  A few PL clubs now are in profit.

Just can’t cut too deep. Southampton were the model for this and now more recently Palace and Leicester seem to doing a great job of finding modestly priced talent and turning a massive profit. But as Southampton showed of you don’t reinvest in quality you can quickly sink and they may be a solid candidate for relegation this season.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 09, 2019, 08:33:12 PM
For a number of years Wimbledon were the experts at buying low, getting a few good years out of players and then selling high and pocketing a profit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 13, 2019, 09:05:27 PM


Talks about us a bit the last minute or so.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 13, 2019, 09:11:46 PM
Who’s the interviewer? Back in the Premiership? Great game against Leeds? Pillock
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 13, 2019, 09:13:58 PM
I'm basically taking that as a guarantee that we win the league in five years.

Can't bloody wait. 😊
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 13, 2019, 09:20:32 PM
Impressed with Wes there.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on July 13, 2019, 09:20:39 PM
Who’s the interviewer? Back in the Premiership? Great game against Leeds? Pillock

Thought the same.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ktvillan on July 13, 2019, 09:22:49 PM
Lerner was as successful in his sport club ownership in the States as he was at Villa.  It would be good if Edens does the same.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 13, 2019, 09:25:28 PM
He's a world away from the Trust Fund Man Baby isn't he? Or Mr Salt in your Takeaway salesman.

Why on earth are they interviewing in the countryside? I thought it was a greenscreen at first. Odd.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 13, 2019, 09:33:18 PM
I'm basically taking that as a guarantee that we win the league in five years.

Can't bloody wait. 😊

He basically promised it, right?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 13, 2019, 10:09:20 PM
Why on earth are they interviewing in the countryside? I thought it was a greenscreen at first. Odd.

His company have had to sell all their buildings to meet Financial Fair Play rules.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 13, 2019, 10:12:22 PM
Why on earth are they interviewing in the countryside? I thought it was a greenscreen at first. Odd.

His company have had to sell all their buildings to meet Financial Fair Play rules.


He is a proper Viler now and lives out in the shires like all the rest of us. ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 13, 2019, 10:37:11 PM
Not uncommon to do business interviews outside over here.
A very smart guy who knows his stuff.
Impressive.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Tuscans on July 13, 2019, 10:39:00 PM
There's a few vids on youtube of Wes talking about business and starts talking about Villa on them for 3-4 minutes...decent watch.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Tuscans on July 13, 2019, 10:39:50 PM
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 13, 2019, 10:42:56 PM


Talks about us a bit the last minute or so.

Another interview, more questions. Does he have any money?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on July 13, 2019, 11:16:57 PM


There’s a line for you. ‘The former owner had some challenges’

Didn’t he just.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 14, 2019, 12:18:18 AM
He was certainly calceologically challenged.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ktvillan on July 14, 2019, 12:44:32 AM
He's a world away from the Trust Fund Man Baby isn't he? Or Mr Salt in your Takeaway salesman.

Why on earth are they interviewing in the countryside? I thought it was a greenscreen at first. Odd.
Yes he does thankfully look as if he knows  his arse from his elbow.  Great description of Lerner.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: clash city rocker on July 14, 2019, 12:23:10 PM
So here is a question for the accountants of the parish...The Nassef family is reported worth £40 billion. Suppose he invests £200m in the villa. Say I have £1m in the bank. What would my equivalent investment be ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 12:48:52 PM
Assuming those are US billions (ie each is worth a thousand million), the equivalent expenditure out a million quid would be five grand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 14, 2019, 12:49:03 PM
So here is a question for the accountants of the parish...The Nassef family is reported worth £40 billion. Suppose he invests £200m in the villa. Say I have £1m in the bank. What would my equivalent investment be ?

Stolen.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on July 14, 2019, 12:49:15 PM
So here is a question for the accountants of the parish...The Nassef family is reported worth £40 billion. Suppose he invests £200m in the villa. Say I have £1m in the bank. What would my equivalent investment be ?
I think your answer is 5 grand but i'm no accountant
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on July 14, 2019, 12:49:58 PM
So here is a question for the accountants of the parish...The Nassef family is reported worth £40 billion. Suppose he invests £200m in the villa. Say I have £1m in the bank. What would my equivalent investment be ?

Stolen.
Very good
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Bad English on July 14, 2019, 12:50:14 PM
£5000
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on July 14, 2019, 12:52:52 PM
So here is a question for the accountants of the parish...The Nassef family is reported worth £40 billion. Suppose he invests £200m in the villa. Say I have £1m in the bank. What would my equivalent investment be ?

If you get your hand in your pocket and invest that in my Sunday team I guarantee I'd return you the Sutton Sunday league title within two seasons. And the Adam Dauncey Cup for good measure.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: clash city rocker on July 14, 2019, 01:11:24 PM
So here is a question for the accountants of the parish...The Nassef family is reported worth £40 billion. Suppose he invests £200m in the villa. Say I have £1m in the bank. What would my equivalent investment be ?

If you get your hand in your pocket and invest that in my Sunday team I guarantee I'd return you the Sutton Sunday league title within two seasons. And the Adam Dauncey Cup for good measure.

Right Lee. I have got my bank statement and calculator out and I can afford to plough in £4.27...Get the contact sorted and we are ready to go.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on July 14, 2019, 01:35:17 PM
So here is a question for the accountants of the parish...The Nassef family is reported worth £40 billion. Suppose he invests £200m in the villa. Say I have £1m in the bank. What would my equivalent investment be ?

If you get your hand in your pocket and invest that in my Sunday team I guarantee I'd return you the Sutton Sunday league title within two seasons. And the Adam Dauncey Cup for good measure.

Right Lee. I have got my bank statement and calculator out and I can afford to plough in £4.27...Get the contact sorted and we are ready to go.

Ok, well bring your boots, you're sub for 4 weeks for that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 14, 2019, 02:16:18 PM


There’s a line for you. ‘The former owner had some challenges’

Didn’t he just.


Ten out of ten to him for diplomacy. I would love to go out with him, get him drunk and hear him say exactly what he thought of Dr T and the situation NSWE inherited.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on July 14, 2019, 04:53:04 PM
So here is a question for the accountants of the parish...The Nassef family is reported worth £40 billion. Suppose he invests £200m in the villa. Say I have £1m in the bank. What would my equivalent investment be ?

If you get your hand in your pocket and invest that in my Sunday team I guarantee I'd return you the Sutton Sunday league title within two seasons. And the Adam Dauncey Cup for good measure.

Off topic Lee but, could you give me some background on Adam Dauncey please?  My reason for asking is due to the fact that an Adam Dauncey was in the same class as my daughter when they started school at the Holy Name Great Barr, they were pictured in the Mail on their first day at school.  I'm not sure but I think he lived on Hampstead Road.  Cups named after individuals are usually memorial trophies aren't they?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on July 14, 2019, 05:22:27 PM
So here is a question for the accountants of the parish...The Nassef family is reported worth £40 billion. Suppose he invests £200m in the villa. Say I have £1m in the bank. What would my equivalent investment be ?

If you get your hand in your pocket and invest that in my Sunday team I guarantee I'd return you the Sutton Sunday league title within two seasons. And the Adam Dauncey Cup for good measure.

Off topic Lee but, could you give me some background on Adam Dauncey please?  My reason for asking is due to the fact that an Adam Dauncey was in the same class as my daughter when they started school at the Holy Name Great Barr, they were pictured in the Mail on their first day at school.  I'm not sure but I think he lived on Hampstead Road.  Cups named after individuals are usually memorial trophies aren't they?

You're right in respect of them being memorial, but other than that I don't know anything regarding the history of it other than I sliced an own goal into the top corner the last time I played in it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on July 14, 2019, 05:30:00 PM
Thanks anyway Lee, if you do find anything out, you might let me know.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on July 14, 2019, 06:00:17 PM
No worries Dave, I'll ask the question at the next league meeting.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on July 15, 2019, 03:08:39 PM


There’s a line for you. ‘The former owner had some challenges’

Didn’t he just.

😂 Made me laugh.

Lionel Messi, he scored some goals.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: stubbsyandy on July 16, 2019, 09:59:59 AM
So here is a question for the accountants of the parish...The Nassef family is reported worth £40 billion. Suppose he invests £200m in the villa. Say I have £1m in the bank. What would my equivalent investment be ?

If you get your hand in your pocket and invest that in my Sunday team I guarantee I'd return you the Sutton Sunday league title within two seasons. And the Adam Dauncey Cup for good measure.

Aah the Sutton Sunday league, great memories from the 80’s
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 23, 2019, 10:17:17 AM
Swaris fortune has increased by approximately one Randy Lerner in the past few months. He's added $1.5bn onto his lot.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on July 23, 2019, 11:22:29 AM
Will come in useful in January when we sign Neymar.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on July 23, 2019, 11:56:37 AM
Where's this, Forbes?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 23, 2019, 12:33:26 PM
Where's this, Forbes?


No, not Forbes. It was posted by Ads  ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on July 25, 2019, 03:23:19 PM
I'm really enjoying the investment. Thank you Wes and Nassef.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: West Derby Villan on July 25, 2019, 04:24:50 PM
I'm really enjoying the investment. Thank you Wes and Nassef.

And me, beyond my wildest dreams and quality as well
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 11:55:56 AM
I wonder if their planning in only doing some exterior tarting up  to the North Stand is because they want to tackle the question of upgraded facilities, higher capacity and potentially whole new ground (which might mean new location) properly rather than invest a very large sum in rebuilding the stand now?

Is this a ticking-over measure to buy us time to think more about it, and get a better idea of what we really need?

Have to say, that new Everton ground looks like exactly what I'd want us to have if we had a new ground. The combination of brick and steel is brilliant and evocative of old grounds.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 27, 2019, 12:06:07 PM
Yes that new Everton ground looks like it will be brilliant.  I know that Villa Park is home, but if you think that most of the stands and facilities are actully pretty shit, I wouldn't be averse to a shiny new ground at all, as long as it wasn't a bland identikit effort like Stoke for example.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on July 27, 2019, 12:08:17 PM
I don’t want a new ground just make the one we got bigger and better thanks
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 12:08:22 PM
The facilities in the Trinity Rd are not too bad, and i haven't been in the Holte since it was rebuilt so have no idea, but the other two stands have truly dreadful facilities.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 27, 2019, 12:12:45 PM
Yes that new Everton ground looks like it will be brilliant.  I know that Villa Park is home, but if you think that most of the stands and facilities are actully pretty shit, I wouldn't be averse to a shiny new ground at all, as long as it wasn't a bland identikit effort like Stoke for example.

Most of the stands and facilities aren't shit...

One stand could do with bulldozing and another needs improving, but that's par for the course for traditional grounds. I wouldn't ever want us to move out of Villa Park, and as we're not hemmed in and prevented from developing, we've no reason to.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 27, 2019, 12:13:33 PM
Yes, The Trinity is decent enough, but the other three all leave an awful lot to be desired.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on July 27, 2019, 12:15:27 PM
The upper Trinity Road concourse (particularly at half time) is shockingly bad.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 27, 2019, 12:19:30 PM
I could live with us moving somewhere with better public transport links and facilities, so long as it was still a proper part of the city and not on some retail park somewhere in the middle of nowhere like Bolton's ground. I'd rather just stay at Villa Park, expand to fifty and maybe eventually sixty thousand, working with the council and transport companies to ensure improving travel links. Not quite sure how you do that but sure a grown up could work it out. For a start, I hear that German fans get free public transport if they have a match ticket. How can we get the same? That would encourage plenty of people off the roads.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OzVilla on July 27, 2019, 12:34:15 PM
Public transport is free in Oz (Brisbane anyway) with a match ticket across the board, Aussie Rules, Rugby League, Rugby Union and Cricket. Works really well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: clash city rocker on July 27, 2019, 01:03:33 PM
Public transport is free in Oz (Brisbane anyway) with a match ticket across the board, Aussie Rules, Rugby League, Rugby Union and Cricket. Works really well.

This is England.  We dont do joined up thinking.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 27, 2019, 01:08:54 PM
The facilities in the Trinity Rd are not too bad, and i haven't been in the Holte since it was rebuilt so have no idea, but the other two stands have truly dreadful facilities.

The Upper Holte is very good. Lage space and over two decks too.

The North needs to go and so does the Witton. I hate the comments I read from away fans about how poor the upper Witton is. It's not what Villa Park should be about.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 01:18:24 PM
Yes that new Everton ground looks like it will be brilliant.  I know that Villa Park is home, but if you think that most of the stands and facilities are actully pretty shit, I wouldn't be averse to a shiny new ground at all, as long as it wasn't a bland identikit effort like Stoke for example.

Most of the stands and facilities aren't shit...

One stand could do with bulldozing and another needs improving, but that's par for the course for traditional grounds. I wouldn't ever want us to move out of Villa Park, and as we're not hemmed in and prevented from developing, we've no reason to.

The Witton is absolutely awful. So cramped. It's like being at a match in the 70s.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy65 on July 27, 2019, 01:18:45 PM
I could live with us moving somewhere with better public transport links and facilities, so long as it was still a proper part of the city and not on some retail park somewhere in the middle of nowhere like Bolton's ground. I'd rather just stay at Villa Park, expand to fifty and maybe eventually sixty thousand, working with the council and transport companies to ensure improving travel links. Not quite sure how you do that but sure a grown up could work it out. For a start, I hear that German fans get free public transport if they have a match ticket. How can we get the same? That would encourage plenty of people off the roads.

Went to Berlin in May and yes there was free travel to the ground
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 01:20:31 PM
I could live with us moving somewhere with better public transport links and facilities, so long as it was still a proper part of the city and not on some retail park somewhere in the middle of nowhere like Bolton's ground. I'd rather just stay at Villa Park, expand to fifty and maybe eventually sixty thousand, working with the council and transport companies to ensure improving travel links. Not quite sure how you do that but sure a grown up could work it out. For a start, I hear that German fans get free public transport if they have a match ticket. How can we get the same? That would encourage plenty of people off the roads.

Their public transport is probably publicly owned which would make these things easier, rather than our hideous mish mash of different companies.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 27, 2019, 01:21:48 PM
If things progress well a new stadium versus redevelopment to take full advantage of modern commercial opportunities maybe the better option. So many more complications in trying to update Villa Park with inconveniences to the surrounding environment and community. So given what Spurs have done, Everton/Liverpool etc will do maybe build a new Villa Park if land exists not too far away to help keep up.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 27, 2019, 01:21:50 PM
I dunno tbh. What about Australia, then? That can't be publicly owned, the Aussies make Little Englanders seem like rabid Communists.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 27, 2019, 01:28:46 PM
Yes that new Everton ground looks like it will be brilliant.  I know that Villa Park is home, but if you think that most of the stands and facilities are actully pretty shit, I wouldn't be averse to a shiny new ground at all, as long as it wasn't a bland identikit effort like Stoke for example.

Most of the stands and facilities aren't shit...

One stand could do with bulldozing and another needs improving, but that's par for the course for traditional grounds. I wouldn't ever want us to move out of Villa Park, and as we're not hemmed in and prevented from developing, we've no reason to.

The North Stand is dire, and there's no leg room in the Witton for anybody over 5'4" tall.  The half time catering is terrible just about everywhere, and the congestion and lack of parking nearby is pretty problematic as well.  And of course we're hemmed in on the Trinity and Witton sides, so the North Stand is the only one that could really be redeveloped to give us a 50,000 capacity, unless we fill in the corners, which would be difficult, and would look shit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 01:31:08 PM
Yes that new Everton ground looks like it will be brilliant.  I know that Villa Park is home, but if you think that most of the stands and facilities are actully pretty shit, I wouldn't be averse to a shiny new ground at all, as long as it wasn't a bland identikit effort like Stoke for example.

Most of the stands and facilities aren't shit...

One stand could do with bulldozing and another needs improving, but that's par for the course for traditional grounds. I wouldn't ever want us to move out of Villa Park, and as we're not hemmed in and prevented from developing, we've no reason to.

The North Stand is dire, and there's no leg room in the Witton for anybody over 5'4" tall.  The half time catering is terrible just about everywhere, and the congestion and lack of parking nearby is pretty problematic as well.  And of course we're hemmed in on the Trinity and Witton sides, so the North Stand is the only one that could really be redeveloped to give us a 50,000 capacity, unless we fill in the corners, which would be difficult, and would look shit.

I also think when people discuss whether or not we need a bigger ground, they look at it in terms of number of seats and overlook the much improved facilities that would create, and the extra revenue flow that comes with it.

I wouldn't be hugely surprised if we ended up in a ground on that Smithfield market site in the city centre. The timeframes for the development would fit in with our growing requirements.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on July 27, 2019, 01:32:57 PM
If things progress well a new stadium versus redevelopment to take full advantage of modern commercial opportunities maybe the better option. So many more complications in trying to update Villa Park with inconveniences to the surrounding environment and community. So given what Spurs have done, Everton/Liverpool etc will do maybe build a new Villa Park if land exists not too far away to help keep up.

Perry Barr Park seems a good place to build  8)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on July 27, 2019, 01:34:41 PM
Yes that new Everton ground looks like it will be brilliant.  I know that Villa Park is home, but if you think that most of the stands and facilities are actully pretty shit, I wouldn't be averse to a shiny new ground at all, as long as it wasn't a bland identikit effort like Stoke for example.

Most of the stands and facilities aren't shit...

One stand could do with bulldozing and another needs improving, but that's par for the course for traditional grounds. I wouldn't ever want us to move out of Villa Park, and as we're not hemmed in and prevented from developing, we've no reason to.

The North Stand is dire, and there's no leg room in the Witton for anybody over 5'4" tall.  The half time catering is terrible just about everywhere, and the congestion and lack of parking nearby is pretty problematic as well.  And of course we're hemmed in on the Trinity and Witton sides, so the North Stand is the only one that could really be redeveloped to give us a 50,000 capacity, unless we fill in the corners, which would be difficult, and would look shit.

I also think when people discuss whether or not we need a bigger ground, they look at it in terms of number of seats and overlook the much improved facilities that would create, and the extra revenue flow that comes with it.

I wouldn't be hugely surprised if we ended up in a ground on that Smithfield market site in the city centre. The timeframes for the development would fit in with our growing requirements.

Would we not be more likely to be part of the Advanced Manufacturing Hub masterplan which is on our doorstep?

People also seem to be forgetting we’ve committed to the Commonwealth Games in 2022 so nothing will happen before then in my view. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: old man villa fan on July 27, 2019, 01:38:17 PM
Yes that new Everton ground looks like it will be brilliant.  I know that Villa Park is home, but if you think that most of the stands and facilities are actully pretty shit, I wouldn't be averse to a shiny new ground at all, as long as it wasn't a bland identikit effort like Stoke for example.

Most of the stands and facilities aren't shit...

One stand could do with bulldozing and another needs improving, but that's par for the course for traditional grounds. I wouldn't ever want us to move out of Villa Park, and as we're not hemmed in and prevented from developing, we've no reason to.

The North Stand is dire, and there's no leg room in the Witton for anybody over 5'4" tall.  The half time catering is terrible just about everywhere, and the congestion and lack of parking nearby is pretty problematic as well.  And of course we're hemmed in on the Trinity and Witton sides, so the North Stand is the only one that could really be redeveloped to give us a 50,000 capacity, unless we fill in the corners, which would be difficult, and would look shit.

I also think when people discuss whether or not we need a bigger ground, they look at it in terms of number of seats and overlook the much improved facilities that would create, and the extra revenue flow that comes with it.

I wouldn't be hugely surprised if we ended up in a ground on that Smithfield market site in the city centre. The timeframes for the development would fit in with our growing requirements.

The land would be too expensive and not big enough.  It is also earmarked for development under the 'Big City Plan'.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 27, 2019, 01:41:54 PM
Having a 55,000 seater there would be absolutely iconic and surely fit any plan? Size of proposed site notwithstanding.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 01:42:48 PM
Yes that new Everton ground looks like it will be brilliant.  I know that Villa Park is home, but if you think that most of the stands and facilities are actully pretty shit, I wouldn't be averse to a shiny new ground at all, as long as it wasn't a bland identikit effort like Stoke for example.

Most of the stands and facilities aren't shit...

One stand could do with bulldozing and another needs improving, but that's par for the course for traditional grounds. I wouldn't ever want us to move out of Villa Park, and as we're not hemmed in and prevented from developing, we've no reason to.

The North Stand is dire, and there's no leg room in the Witton for anybody over 5'4" tall.  The half time catering is terrible just about everywhere, and the congestion and lack of parking nearby is pretty problematic as well.  And of course we're hemmed in on the Trinity and Witton sides, so the North Stand is the only one that could really be redeveloped to give us a 50,000 capacity, unless we fill in the corners, which would be difficult, and would look shit.

I also think when people discuss whether or not we need a bigger ground, they look at it in terms of number of seats and overlook the much improved facilities that would create, and the extra revenue flow that comes with it.

I wouldn't be hugely surprised if we ended up in a ground on that Smithfield market site in the city centre. The timeframes for the development would fit in with our growing requirements.

The land would be too expensive and not big enough.  It is also earmarked for development under the 'Big City Plan'.

The plot is absolutely huge, size wouldn't be the problem, it'd be whether a stadium could be part of the plan (it is all indicative at the moment anyway)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 27, 2019, 01:43:03 PM
I also think when people discuss whether or not we need a bigger ground, they look at it in terms of number of seats and overlook the much improved facilities that would create, and the extra revenue flow that comes with it.

I wouldn't be hugely surprised if we ended up in a ground on that Smithfield market site in the city centre. The timeframes for the development would fit in with our growing requirements.

I'd love something that was close to the City Centre. Going to St James Park is such a piece of piss if you get the train to Newcastle, it's great being able to drink in the city centre then just stroll a few steps to the ground.

A lot of traditional grounds are/were a pain in the arse to get to (Liverpool, Everton, Man U, Spurs etc), with the only alternatives being bland new grounds tacked on to the sides of retail/industrial parks (Bolton, Wigan, Stoke etc) with the main facilities of town being a reasonable distance away.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 27, 2019, 01:46:07 PM
The problem with that is only Birmingham City fans live in Birmingham. At least so we’ve been told.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 01:51:32 PM
I also think when people discuss whether or not we need a bigger ground, they look at it in terms of number of seats and overlook the much improved facilities that would create, and the extra revenue flow that comes with it.

I wouldn't be hugely surprised if we ended up in a ground on that Smithfield market site in the city centre. The timeframes for the development would fit in with our growing requirements.

I'd love something that was close to the City Centre. Going to St James Park is such a piece of piss if you get the train to Newcastle, it's great being able to drink in the city centre then just stroll a few steps to the ground.

A lot of traditional grounds are/were a pain in the arse to get to (Liverpool, Everton, Man U, Spurs etc), with the only alternatives being bland new grounds tacked on to the sides of retail/industrial parks (Bolton, Wigan, Stoke etc) with the main facilities of town being a reasonable distance away.

I was a student up in Newcastle and having the ground in the city centre really has an impact on bringing club and people together- appreciate it's different as Newcastle is a one club town, but walking around the city centre while they were playing, you'd hear the roar of every goal.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 27, 2019, 01:51:42 PM
One thing that Brum doesn't seem to be short of is, is land that looks like it would benefit from a lot of redevelopment.  That whole Smithfield area at the back of the Bull Ring is a right eyesore.  That would be a great spot, 10-15 minute walk from New Street, you could have decent parking facilities, a fans' village for catering choices, etc etc.  I love going to Vill Park as much as anybody, but in terms of the 'experience' (not including the actual football) it's a bit rubbish. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 27, 2019, 01:52:47 PM
appreciate it's different as Newcastle is a one club town

Same as Birmingham then! :)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 01:55:28 PM
One thing that Brum doesn't seem to be short of is, is land that looks like it would benefit from a lot of redevelopment.  That whole Smithfield area at the back of the Bull Ring is a right eyesore.  That would be a great spot, 10-15 minute walk from New Street, you could have decent parking facilities, a fans' village for catering choices, etc etc.  I love going to Vill Park as much as anybody, but in terms of the 'experience' (not including the actual football) it's a bit rubbish. 

That is the bit of land we were talking about - it has been (is being) totally cleared, and is a huge 17 hectare (one football pitch is about 0.65 hectares, I've just googled!) space which is specifically earmarked for cultural attractions (and flats, obviously).

They've just appointed a list of architects to draw up the entire masterplan, it's a truly huge project.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Border villan on July 27, 2019, 02:12:46 PM
I also think when people discuss whether or not we need a bigger ground, they look at it in terms of number of seats and overlook the much improved facilities that would create, and the extra revenue flow that comes with it.

I wouldn't be hugely surprised if we ended up in a ground on that Smithfield market site in the city centre. The timeframes for the development would fit in with our growing requirements.

I'd love something that was close to the City Centre. Going to St James Park is such a piece of piss if you get the train to Newcastle, it's great being able to drink in the city centre then just stroll a few steps to the ground.

A lot of traditional grounds are/were a pain in the arse to get to (Liverpool, Everton, Man U, Spurs etc), with the only alternatives being bland new grounds tacked on to the sides of retail/industrial parks (Bolton, Wigan, Stoke etc) with the main facilities of town being a reasonable distance away.

I was a student up in Newcastle and having the ground in the city centre really has an impact on bringing club and people together- appreciate it's different as Newcastle is a one club town, but walking around the city centre while they were playing, you'd hear the roar of every goal.
Nice and quiet then when they are at home.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 27, 2019, 02:14:56 PM
I think it would be something pretty special and really add to the city centre. It's far more likely to attract tourist dollar during the week too. Bars, museum and a hotel on that site, with the amount of foreign shopping tourists and visitors we get would drastically improve our commercial revenue.

Improved facilities and the chance for a monstrous single tiered Holte.

Bring on modernity.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kipeye on July 27, 2019, 02:17:55 PM
I also think when people discuss whether or not we need a bigger ground, they look at it in terms of number of seats and overlook the much improved facilities that would create, and the extra revenue flow that comes with it.

I wouldn't be hugely surprised if we ended up in a ground on that Smithfield market site in the city centre. The timeframes for the development would fit in with our growing requirements.

I'd love something that was close to the City Centre. Going to St James Park is such a piece of piss if you get the train to Newcastle, it's great being able to drink in the city centre then just stroll a few steps to the ground.

A lot of traditional grounds are/were a pain in the arse to get to (Liverpool, Everton, Man U, Spurs etc), with the only alternatives being bland new grounds tacked on to the sides of retail/industrial parks (Bolton, Wigan, Stoke etc) with the main facilities of town being a reasonable distance away.

I was a student up in Newcastle and having the ground in the city centre really has an impact on bringing club and people together- appreciate it's different as Newcastle is a one club town, but walking around the city centre while they were playing, you'd hear the roar of every goal.
must have been pretty quiet last year then. :) Damn-BV beat me to it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on July 27, 2019, 02:19:16 PM
Been 20 years or so since the last redevelopment so we do need to get a move on imo. We are being left behind.

I would support a new Villa Park, I'd rather redevelop the current site if possible though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 02:19:53 PM
I also think when people discuss whether or not we need a bigger ground, they look at it in terms of number of seats and overlook the much improved facilities that would create, and the extra revenue flow that comes with it.

I wouldn't be hugely surprised if we ended up in a ground on that Smithfield market site in the city centre. The timeframes for the development would fit in with our growing requirements.

I'd love something that was close to the City Centre. Going to St James Park is such a piece of piss if you get the train to Newcastle, it's great being able to drink in the city centre then just stroll a few steps to the ground.

A lot of traditional grounds are/were a pain in the arse to get to (Liverpool, Everton, Man U, Spurs etc), with the only alternatives being bland new grounds tacked on to the sides of retail/industrial parks (Bolton, Wigan, Stoke etc) with the main facilities of town being a reasonable distance away.

I was a student up in Newcastle and having the ground in the city centre really has an impact on bringing club and people together- appreciate it's different as Newcastle is a one club town, but walking around the city centre while they were playing, you'd hear the roar of every goal.
Nice and quiet then when they are at home.

It was in the late 80s, so they indeed were absolutely abject, not that much noise created.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kipeye on July 27, 2019, 02:20:39 PM
Been 20 years or so since the last redevelopment so we do need to get a move on imo. We are being left behind.

I would support a new Villa Park, I'd rather redevelop the current site if possible though.
Same. The whole area around VP would benefit from re-development and would need proper transport and infrastructure to go with it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 27, 2019, 02:20:43 PM
I’m warming to the idea of a new ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 02:36:29 PM
Been 20 years or so since the last redevelopment so we do need to get a move on imo. We are being left behind.

I would support a new Villa Park, I'd rather redevelop the current site if possible though.
Same. The whole area around VP would benefit from re-development and would need proper transport and infrastructure to go with it.

It's the infrastructure and transport requirements that make me wonder if they'd just look at moving.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 27, 2019, 02:38:31 PM
I don't think there's any way we can do a proper redevelopment of the current site, and stay there while we're doing it. As has been said, spacewise there's not much, if anything, we could do with the Trinity or Witton Lane that could improve them within their existing footprints. What we've got is pretty much all you can squeeze out of them.

I've said before that I think the only way we can build a bells and whistles ground where we are would have to mean rejigging the space and moving the pitch. But then, where do we go in the meantime? Wembley?

Add me to the list of Movers.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on July 27, 2019, 02:39:39 PM
I’m warming to the idea of a new ground.

Never in a million years. We have everything we need where we are with room to expand the North Stand when needed.

Not many football grounds even have two train stations in walking distance either.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on July 27, 2019, 02:43:20 PM
I'd like to see both options before picking. Render of new build, render of redeveloped current site.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 27, 2019, 02:51:51 PM
We could have one of the biggest and busiest train stations in the country within easy walking distance.

The Noses having to trudge past it when they journey to their hovel would be just an amusing bonus.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: West Derby Villan on July 27, 2019, 02:54:44 PM
I’m warming to the idea of a new ground.

Never in a million years. We have everything we need where we are with room to expand the North Stand when needed.

Not many football grounds even have two train stations in walking distance either.

Never in 2 million years
Add me to the "Remainers"
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 27, 2019, 02:59:36 PM
Been 20 years or so since the last redevelopment so we do need to get a move on imo. We are being left behind.

I would support a new Villa Park, I'd rather redevelop the current site if possible though.
Same. The whole area around VP would benefit from re-development and would need proper transport and infrastructure to go with it.

It's the infrastructure and transport requirements that make me wonder if they'd just look at moving.

That’s what I was alluding to. Give the massive amount of grief it would cause to the surrounding community, the planning complications, traffic flow disaster etc. are we not just better finding an open spot and doing it right for the long term future of the club. And it won’t have escaped NSWE’s attention the new stadiums that have popped up and will be popping up. As much as we all love Villa Park it’s hard for it to compete in the modern game vs the revenues that these stadia drive. I would much rather for that reason build a 55000 seat stadium vs keep cramming people into our current ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 27, 2019, 03:01:57 PM
We're all getting ahead of ourselves, but...you hear Wes speak about his own business plans and Sawiris adding $1.5bn so far this year...with the money spent they really do seem beyond the real deal.

If the ultimate aim is to compete with the top 6, then we need the facilities and revenue to match.

Would a 55,000 Villa Park in B6 allow us to do that? Or would a 55,000 in B4 be better suited?

I'm all for history being an inspiration and not an anchor.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on July 27, 2019, 03:31:55 PM
I’m warming to the idea of a new ground.

Never in a million years. We have everything we need where we are with room to expand the North Stand when needed.

Not many football grounds even have two train stations in walking distance either.

Never in 2 million years
Add me to the "Remainers"

Remainers and Leavers 😂😂😂

Not sure how I am voting.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 27, 2019, 03:34:06 PM
A big part of me would hate to leave VP but then I think that the Holy Trinity that made us the greatest club in the world wouldn't have hesitated to leave if they believed it was what the club needed to progress.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on July 27, 2019, 03:50:27 PM
A big part of me would hate to leave VP but then I think that the Holy Trinity that made us the greatest club in the world wouldn't have hesitated to leave if they believed it was what the club needed to progress.

This. The only difficulty being would they have moved out of Aston to do it?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 27, 2019, 03:51:17 PM
They had no problem moving us to Perry Barr.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 27, 2019, 03:52:36 PM
If we are going to upgrade VP then the Commonwealth games stadium could be our home for 12 months.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on July 27, 2019, 03:53:57 PM
If we are going to upgrade VP then the Commonwealth games stadium could be our home for 12 months.

Nope we’re hosting the Rugby 7s as part of the games so we can’t do anything.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 27, 2019, 03:56:45 PM
If we are going to upgrade VP then the Commonwealth games stadium could be our home for 12 months.

Nope we’re hosting the Rugby 7s as part of the games so we can’t do anything.

I'm sure I read that's not a definite.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 27, 2019, 04:00:37 PM
I'd be very disappointed if Villa Park wasn't part of the biggest event Birmingham has ever hosted. I'm still annoyed that the idiotic previous incumbent managed to lose us the Olympic football to that plastic rugby ground outside Coventry.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 27, 2019, 04:52:57 PM
I meant using it afterwards.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 27, 2019, 04:56:59 PM
Still a no from me, don't fancy a year watching ants from behind a running track.

Start work after the last home game and get it done for the start of the next season, requesting starting the season with back to back away games if required.

That would be enough to sort one stand out.

Do the same with the other stand the year after.

Would have to be next summer and the summer of 2021, let's have the ground looking as great as possible when Birmingham hosts the Britishempirewerentallbastardshonest Games.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on July 27, 2019, 04:57:22 PM
If we are going to upgrade VP then the Commonwealth games stadium could be our home for 12 months.
I’ve suggested this before too and agree with you. Apparently it’s going to be a 40,000 seater stadium so could be a temporary home whilst Villa Park receives a full modern rebuild. Makes perfect sense to me and keeps everyone happy.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 27, 2019, 05:01:24 PM
Still a no from me, don't fancy a year watching ants from behind a running track.

Start work after the last home game and get it done for the start of the next season, requesting starting the season with back to back away games if required.

That would be enough to sort one stand out.


Do the same with the other stand the year after.

Would have to be next summer and the summer of 2021, let's have the ground looking as great as possible when Birmingham hosts the Britishempirewerentallbastardshonest Games.


Would it bollocks!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KevinGage on July 27, 2019, 05:27:04 PM
It's a no from me for any suggestion of moving from Villa Park permanently. We're not landlocked. And the increase in capacity we (may) need in future can be achieved where we are. Before you even get into the history of the location.  I never heard much of this sort of talk before Tottingham's super duper new stadium came along. And those kind of soulless Odromo Bowls leave me cold. Twats munching on hotdogs watching the match on big screens in the concourses rather than in the stands.  Fuck that right off.

But if we're using Australia as an example - if a large, modern, municipal stadium was built near the city centre - I wouldn't be against the odd big high profile game being held there, as certain sides do in Melbourne.  Could be used by SHA as well ... (actually, no. As they'll never get the numbers. Wolves then).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on July 27, 2019, 05:36:40 PM
I'd feel very uneasy about leaving VP. In an age where we are blessed to have a captain and manager who are local and love the club - Gareth Bale deciding to retire early in China for a million quid a week putting modern players' motivation in stark terms; a traditional, much-loved ground is one of the few things that helps anchor a club's identity.

Players and staff come and go. Apart from the supporters what else does a club have to show for its continued existence?  A ground as storied as Villa Park is too important to consign to the past especially if it's practical to do the refurb we require.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KevinGage on July 27, 2019, 05:45:01 PM
The other possible benefit of a shared/ municipal ground is it wouldn't feel so bad getting dicked by Yanited and the other sugarbags in what would essentially be a neutral venue. Rather than having their mutant fans taking the piss at their favourite away ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 27, 2019, 05:47:21 PM
I want more than a redeveloped North Stand. As someone prepared to part with my hard-earned disposable at the home of the club I love, my experience of trying to do that in the two bits of the ground I use these days are
Lower Holte, useable pre-match, miss 10 minutes of the game at half time
Upper Trinity, I'm starting to be consumed by dread that there'll be more than three dozen of us trying to use it this season.

It's customer service from another era.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 27, 2019, 05:51:24 PM
I'd feel very uneasy about leaving VP. In an age where we are blessed to have a captain and manager who are local and love the club - Gareth Bale deciding to retire early in China for a million quid a week putting modern players' motivation in stark terms; a traditional, much-loved ground is one of the few things that helps anchor a club's identity.

Players and staff come and go. Apart from the supporters what else does a club have to show for its continued existence?  A ground as storied as Villa Park is too important to consign to the past especially if it's practical to do the refurb we require.

I don't disagree. I'd only be in favour of moving if we were unable to expand Villa Park sufficiently. Then I would move, reluctantly. Rather do that then prevent thousands of fans who want to attend from doing so.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 27, 2019, 05:55:44 PM
The Witton needs to go with the North as well and there would need to be investment in up scaling facilities in the other two and improving transportation infrastructure around Villa Park.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 06:02:41 PM
Still a no from me, don't fancy a year watching ants from behind a running track.

Start work after the last home game and get it done for the start of the next season, requesting starting the season with back to back away games if required.

That would be enough to sort one stand out.


Do the same with the other stand the year after.

Would have to be next summer and the summer of 2021, let's have the ground looking as great as possible when Birmingham hosts the Britishempirewerentallbastardshonest Games.


Would it bollocks!!

Indeed

There's no chance whatsoever a stand gets knocked down and rebuilt in the close season.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 27, 2019, 06:03:46 PM
I'm not as invested in this as some, being as how I rarely get to games these days, but if a new stadium could be built that moves the club and the city forward I'd be all for it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 27, 2019, 06:04:33 PM
It's happened before, hasn't it? Maybe have reduced capacity for a month or two.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: old man villa fan on July 27, 2019, 06:28:55 PM
The only way to increase the capacity significantly at Villa Park would be to build behind the North Stand.  Start with an upper tier, demolish the existing stand and then build the lower tier. Then move the pitch 10m or so away from the Holte End.  This would then allow some redevelopment of the corners and look at some alteration to the lower tier of the Holte End.  There is space in and around the ground to improve refreshment facilities/toilets etc but it would be costly compared with revenue.  However, adding 10-15,000 to the capacity would need massive upgrade of the facilities.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 27, 2019, 06:43:48 PM
It's happened before, hasn't it? Maybe have reduced capacity for a month or two.


The unsophisticated Holte took until December. And if we do that with the North, we'll have wedged ourselves into a corner we can't get out of. We shall be forever trapped in the fork of Trinity Road and Witton Lane.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on July 27, 2019, 06:48:26 PM
Interesting to see so many people open to the idea of a move. I always thought there would be much more resistance to the idea.

I would be open to the idea if it was done right but in truth, a full analysis would be needed which we probably wouldn't have access to.

I think there's potential to move to the Games' stadium whilst major reconstruction work was done but for me, a big part of the study would have to include the surrounding area and the roads. I doubt much has changed in decades despite the big increase in traffic.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 27, 2019, 06:54:57 PM
I think a lot of the lack of openness to a move in the past was in no small part down to the only option seemingly being the NEC.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Tayls_7 on July 27, 2019, 07:08:50 PM
Can I still be closed? Think moving would be dogwank.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 27, 2019, 07:16:27 PM
Imagine town though. A few minutes walk from New Street, Moor Street, HS2 and hundreds of bus stops, taxis and the tram. The only thing I’ve ever been jealous of with small heath is that they can drink in Digbeth moments before and after the game. Plus the only noticeable b-lose areas are those with good transport links to the Sty. A Villa stadium at Smithfield would all but destroy them over time. So it’s a thumbs up from me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KevinGage on July 27, 2019, 07:35:38 PM
B-lose should be irrelevant to any forward planning by our club.

That close to the city centre and they've never been much of a draw or had any solid period eclipsing what we do on the pitch.  Even in the Premier League, that city centre proximity didn't seem to attract the floating voter for them. And It's not as if we are a million miles away from the CC ourselves.

There's a better than average chance they'll be a League One side this time next year.  I wouldn't be advocating watching what Rotherham or Coventry do all that closely either.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 27, 2019, 08:01:47 PM
B-lose should be irrelevant to any forward planning by our club.


I agree. Just a happy consequence.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 27, 2019, 08:05:01 PM
The shape of the plot of land is the problem and shows that we are landlocked and very limited in what we can do. Compare it to Sunderland (which is the minimum extra capacity we'd be looking at):

(https://i.ibb.co/hDj4ZJV/Villa-park.png) (https://ibb.co/hDj4ZJV)

Personally I don't see how you add 7000 without either negotiating moving roads or building something insane to replace the north stand but with the latter you still end up with no car parking facilities, no decent road links and you haven't addressed the awful state of the DE stand. the SoL, on the other hand, has it's own light rail station (slightly off to the right from that map), is next to one of the major spine roads out of the city centre and is 5 minutes over the bridge from said city centre.


They moved from a well loved traditional ground that was clearly no longer fit for purpose because they struggled with many of the same issues we have and whilst they've had a terrible time on the pitch you rarely hear any complaints about the stadium or access to it.


I don't know if moving is the best idea but I would say that if we don't there's not a whole lot we can expect to see in terms of improvements without some massive changes.


I have, in the past, wondered whether you could fit a 60k stadium on the Martineau Galleries plot though, sadly you can't.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 27, 2019, 08:06:08 PM
They are irrelevant, but a stadium in that location taking inthe city centre spread would be an ultimate monument to their absolute and total inferiority.

The spread of pubs, transport and foot traffic would make New Villa Park very attractive and give us the chance to drive up that commercial revenue on non-match days as well  to compete.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 27, 2019, 08:09:57 PM
Imagine town though. A few minutes walk from New Street, Moor Street, HS2 and hundreds of bus stops, taxis and the tram. The only thing I’ve ever been jealous of with small heath is that they can drink in Digbeth moments before and after the game. Plus the only noticeable b-lose areas are those with good transport links to the Sty. A Villa stadium at Smithfield would all but destroy them over time. So it’s a thumbs up from me.

It doesn't really feel that close in reality though does it?  Other side of the ring road, and must be a good twenty plus minute walk to the main bits of Digbeth.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 08:14:59 PM
Imagine town though. A few minutes walk from New Street, Moor Street, HS2 and hundreds of bus stops, taxis and the tram. The only thing I’ve ever been jealous of with small heath is that they can drink in Digbeth moments before and after the game. Plus the only noticeable b-lose areas are those with good transport links to the Sty. A Villa stadium at Smithfield would all but destroy them over time. So it’s a thumbs up from me.

It doesn't really feel that close in reality though does it?  Other side of the ring road, and must be a good twenty plus minute walk to the main bits of Digbeth.

Yeah but don't forget, most of them are on mobility scooters

*nods*
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 27, 2019, 08:21:27 PM
Imagine town though. A few minutes walk from New Street, Moor Street, HS2 and hundreds of bus stops, taxis and the tram. The only thing I’ve ever been jealous of with small heath is that they can drink in Digbeth moments before and after the game. Plus the only noticeable b-lose areas are those with good transport links to the Sty. A Villa stadium at Smithfield would all but destroy them over time. So it’s a thumbs up from me.

It doesn't really feel that close in reality though does it?  Other side of the ring road, and must be a good twenty plus minute walk to the main bits of Digbeth.

Not twenty minutes I don’t think. Digbeth Dining Club to the Forge Tavern, 5 minutes, then maybe 5-10 to the ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 27, 2019, 08:22:13 PM
Imagine town though. A few minutes walk from New Street, Moor Street, HS2 and hundreds of bus stops, taxis and the tram. The only thing I’ve ever been jealous of with small heath is that they can drink in Digbeth moments before and after the game. Plus the only noticeable b-lose areas are those with good transport links to the Sty. A Villa stadium at Smithfield would all but destroy them over time. So it’s a thumbs up from me.

It doesn't really feel that close in reality though does it?  Other side of the ring road, and must be a good twenty plus minute walk to the main bits of Digbeth.

It would make a few of the Digbeh pubs Villa pubs though. Which would be highly amusing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on July 27, 2019, 08:27:19 PM
I’d rather we stay where we are for purely historic reasons, but I have no emotional attachment to any of the 4 stands since both the Holte and Trinity were rebuilt.

In these modern times where Birmingham City Council are planning to nuke Perry Barr and the flyover, is it not realistic that the Trinity Road could cease to be a road and a large investment into the area to enable a full rebuild of Villa Park?

Trinity Road isn’t a main road and all traffic can continue from Perry Barr to Aston via Witton Lane, so if the road itself is taken out of equation then surely we’d have enough space to rebuild as a modern stadium?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 27, 2019, 08:37:09 PM
I’d rather we stay where we are for purely historic reasons, but I have no emotional attachment to any of the 4 stands since both the Holte and Trinity were rebuilt.

In these modern times where Birmingham City Council are planning to nuke Perry Barr and the flyover, is it not realistic that the Trinity Road could cease to be a road and a large investment into the area to enable a full rebuild of Villa Park?

Trinity Road isn’t a main road and all traffic can continue from Perry Barr to Aston via Witton Lane, so if the road itself is taken out of equation then surely we’d have enough space to rebuild as a modern stadium?

You'd have to do a  full rebuild and get the council to agree to give up part of the park as well as the road. Even then you'd still be penned in by Nelson Road Unless the parea of park you took was massive and gave us the room to re-orientate with the pitch running almost perfectly north/south. We'd have something 18-24 months without a ground in that case as well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on July 27, 2019, 08:38:43 PM
Be interesting to see what Tony's plans look like!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KevinGage on July 27, 2019, 08:46:21 PM
I don't look at the Stadium of Light or the Riverside/ BT Hellnet whatever it's called and feel envious.

In fact it concerns me that Herbert Douglas Ellis in his dotage looked at those monstrosities and decided we needed a bit of that for the outside of the new Trinity.

I don't know how practical it would be (I believe there used to be a lake at the Aston Lower Grounds close to the land we now play on) but I have always wondered at the possibility of building down rather than up.  The lower tiers of the Nou Camp, Bernabeu are set below street level and add to the impact when you step in. Think Porto's old ground had that as well.

Would still allow us to have four distinctive stands and reap the benefits of the extra capacity - particularly if safe standing ever truly becomes a thing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on July 27, 2019, 09:20:47 PM
Until this summer I'd say a big "no" to moving from Villa Park. But to hell with it, if we want to be a big time club then we need to act like a big time club.

Brand new, purpose built ground in the city centre. Keep the feel of Villa Park, in particular keep the exterior style of the old trinity road stand / new Holte End. Make it a trademark as it were. The stately home of football and all that.

But also where you see (or walk past) The Bullring, HS2, all that stuff to get to the ground. Make sure everyone knows (a) we're a big deal in football terms and (b) we're the biggest thing in Birmingham. Not the biggest football club. Not the biggest stadium. Villa Park being as iconic a landmark as the Bullring, the thing you associate the whole city with.

You just can't do the absolute domination of the entire country from B6. As was said earlier, there's no way Ramsey, McGregor and Rinder would turn down the chance to move to the city centre right now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on July 27, 2019, 10:02:35 PM
I'm all for optimism, but let's wait until we get into the real action before we see if a new expanded ground is merited. I'd love it to be the case, but even during the relative success at the start of the lerner years it wasn't as if we were consistently selling out our current ground. Things *might* be different now, and obviously there's no harm in discussing it theoretically, but we're miles away from being able to discuss it as a viable option right now.

In any event, i would have thought that the north stand could be re-developed to get us up to around 50,000?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 27, 2019, 10:07:40 PM
I don't look at the Stadium of Light or the Riverside/ BT Hellnet whatever it's called and feel envious.

In fact it concerns me that Herbert Douglas Ellis in his dotage looked at those monstrosities and decided we needed a bit of that for the outside of the new Trinity.

I don't know how practical it would be (I believe there used to be a lake at the Aston Lower Grounds close to the land we now play on) but I have always wondered at the possibility of building down rather than up.  The lower tiers of the Nou Camp, Bernabeu are set below street level and add to the impact when you step in. Think Porto's old ground had that as well.

Would still allow us to have four distinctive stands and reap the benefits of the extra capacity - particularly if safe standing ever truly becomes a thing.

It's not about being envious, it's about having the space to have a modern stadium. It's a great example because Roker Park, whilst not as big as Villa park, was a storied old ground which had seen the club win trophies but it was built at a time when most fans visited by foot so being in amongst the houses was great and a lack of facilities didn't matter and space to expand wasn't a consideration. I know lots of fans up there and I don't know anyone who, within a year or 2, thought they'd made a mistake by moving.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OzVilla on July 28, 2019, 11:12:50 AM
Just seen this thread. If they need to redevelop VP they can do, Atleast 2 stands could by bulldozed and replaced IMO.

 But it would be unthinkable to me that we moved from VP. It's our home.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Border villan on July 28, 2019, 11:19:29 AM
It is our home, but has not always been. Difficult as a move would be for all of us who have spent decades going to Villa Park and are used/resigned to the present ground we should consider those who will follow on from us in the next 140+ years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ktvillan on July 28, 2019, 11:36:14 AM
I'm all for optimism, but let's wait until we get into the real action before we see if a new expanded ground is merited. I'd love it to be the case, but even during the relative success at the start of the lerner years it wasn't as if we were consistently selling out our current ground. Things *might* be different now, and obviously there's no harm in discussing it theoretically, but we're miles away from being able to discuss it as a viable option right now.

In any event, i would have thought that the north stand could be re-developed to get us up to around 50,000?

I agree to an extent.  There is a difference though, even during the early Lerner years we were not signing bums on seats players or playing bums on seats progressive football.  We now have everything in place - owners/investment, Chief Exec, coaching team, scouting team, PL status, TV wonga - to do that and build on it, which is why I think many fans are more excited and optimistic than in the Lerner years.  Plus we've been outside the "promised land"for three years and the appetite has grown.  The effect might wear off if we don't do well, it might not. 

As for VP I'd prefer to develop where we are.  From inside, the ground looks pretty good and replacing the North stand with a whopping great bank would make it look even better.  There is  plenty of space to do that and take us up to 50k.  The issues for me are the facilities and space within the existing stands.  They are a classic case of Doug having the right ideas but then trying to implement them on the cheap.

Whether we've got the space to improve and expand those is another question.  There are "right to light" issues behind the Witton Lane, the Holte is boxed in, and one end of the Trinity is limited for space.  Surely the Trinity Road could be built over again like we already have, or slightly diverted a little further into the park? 

As for transport links, a decent train service would solve a lot of issues.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on July 28, 2019, 11:54:00 AM
I want more than a redeveloped North Stand. As someone prepared to part with my hard-earned disposable at the home of the club I love, my experience of trying to do that in the two bits of the ground I use these days are
Lower Holte, useable pre-match, miss 10 minutes of the game at half time
Upper Trinity, I'm starting to be consumed by dread that there'll be more than three dozen of us trying to use it this season.

It's customer service from another era.

I’ve gone Upper Trinity this season and after my experiences of last season I’ve decided I will be drinking away from the ground and arriving at the last possible moment. Despite a bit of extra room it’s as bad as the Upper Witton Lane.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Simon Page on July 28, 2019, 01:49:56 PM
Anfield overcame a similar problem to that faced at Villa Park; in a triangle and bordered by terraced streets. If we could buy the land/houses behind Witton Lane we could increase there and at the Witton End. It's pretty immaterial though as we haven't yet developed the need for a bigger stadium.

The Commonwealth Games stadium is a non-starter I reckon. Apart from being designed for athletics, so miles from the pitch, the extended capacity is open temporary seats. Lovely in January.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 28, 2019, 02:04:14 PM
Anfield overcame a similar problem to that faced at Villa Park; in a triangle and bordered by terraced streets. If we could buy the land/houses behind Witton Lane we could increase there and at the Witton End. It's pretty immaterial though as we haven't yet developed the need for a bigger stadium.

The Commonwealth Games stadium is a non-starter I reckon. Apart from being designed for athletics, so miles from the pitch, the extended capacity is open temporary seats. Lovely in January.

West Ham arguably didn't need a bigger stadium, yet last year they averaged a crowd of 58,000.  7 clubs now have a stadium that holds 50 thousand or more, it's time we had one as well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Simon Page on July 28, 2019, 02:17:39 PM
I'd love us to be able to justify that kind of outlay and fill the bugger. It's a leap to suggest Stratford FC has done it so we can too, but you could be right. I think we're a club that's just been promoted, splurged on exciting but unknown quantities, had a good pre-season and are now in danger of extrapolating to Wolves levels, but I'd like more than anything for all this hope and optimism to be proven understated.

Thankfully I don't have to make the decision.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 28, 2019, 02:39:51 PM
I get the argument that this is getting ahead of ourselves but the Liverpool example took years and even moving would take a lot of work so I'd hope the club are having these discussions.

If we want to establishvourselves in the top half  of the league again we will need to massively increase our commercial revenues and a modern ground with far better facilities is a big part of that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Simon Page on July 28, 2019, 02:45:00 PM
Agree with all that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 28, 2019, 02:55:35 PM
I would hate us to leave Villa Park.

However if we were to build a stadium at the NEC I could be there in less than ten minutes by car. ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on July 28, 2019, 03:16:19 PM
Over 10 years ago I paid 50 quid for one of those pavers with my kids' names on it outside the Trinity. I'll expect a full refund when we move to our out of town Superdome.

Seriously though, there are people who have their relative's ashes scattered at Villa Park. Wonder how they might feel about their remains forming the foundations of a new Ikea or B&Q.

I'm really not interested in us moving.   
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Axl Rose on July 28, 2019, 03:23:58 PM
Over 10 years ago I paid 50 quid for one of those pavers with my kids' names on it outside the Trinity. I'll expect a full refund when we move to our out of town Superdome.

Seriously though, there are people who have their relative's ashes scattered at Villa Park. Wonder how they might feel about their remains forming the foundations of a new Ikea or B&Q.

I'm really not interested in us moving.   

No, me neither. I'd hate us to leave.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on July 28, 2019, 03:31:10 PM
I don’t think us remainers need to worry can’t see us going anywhere
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dean saunders left boot on July 28, 2019, 03:41:16 PM
Over 10 years ago I paid 50 quid for one of those pavers with my kids' names on it outside the Trinity. I'll expect a full refund when we move to our out of town Superdome.

Seriously though, there are people who have their relative's ashes scattered at Villa Park. Wonder how they might feel about their remains forming the foundations of a new Ikea or B&Q.

I'm really not interested in us moving.   

I've got one of those slabs, it was a 21st Birthday present, I love that my name is part of Villa Park, and would be devastated if it would be removed, or we moved ground
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 28, 2019, 03:43:25 PM
I'd imagine the pavers could be moved.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 28, 2019, 03:43:44 PM
It was a wrench to leave the house where Samson, the hamster who died when I was 7, was buried.  But you know, I got over it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 28, 2019, 03:51:53 PM
Mines eroded that much you can’t read it!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ktvillan on July 28, 2019, 03:55:42 PM
There's certainly been an "if you build it they will come" effect with West Ham moving to the Olympic Stadium.  They haven't pulled up any trees on the pitch either.  Everton seem confident they'll be able to fill a 50k seater at the docks.   I do think with us though a sustained period of relative success and entertaining football would be a good first step.  However the owners should certainly be looking at options and making plans for when the need becomes more obvious, if they haven't already done so.  Based on their record so far I'd hazard a guess they're already doing or have done at least some kind of feasibility study. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 28, 2019, 04:17:26 PM
Mines eroded that much you can’t read it!


Mine's much the same. I check on it now and then. Not much relief left in the lettering, but it looked like someone had touched it up with a marker last time I saw it.

Doug's gone. They'd be moved.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: purpletrousers on July 28, 2019, 04:22:37 PM
I don’t think us remainers need to worry can’t see us going anywhere

Yeah VPexit Vexit Astexit, hmm I think B6exit could never happen. Could it?

Interestingly for the first time ever, surviving/competing at the top table might swing a lot of us to what even 5 years ago seemed utterly unacceptable, when even a name change was an abomination.

I’m in an unusual position of my name on my paver having been changed, but love that 3 gens of pavers are there...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Simon Page on July 28, 2019, 04:42:59 PM
Given the cost of new builds, I doubt we'd see much benefit to moving. Unless, of course, we're completely buggered for expanding.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: CT on July 28, 2019, 04:45:32 PM
I don’t think us remainers need to worry can’t see us going anywhere

Yeah VPexit Vexit Astexit, hmm I think B6exit could never happen. Could it?

Interestingly for the first time ever, surviving/competing at the top table might swing a lot of us to what even 5 years ago seemed utterly unacceptable, when even a name change was an abomination.

I’m in an unusual position of my name on my paver having been changed, but love that 3 gens of pavers are there...

I'm a remainer. I've told my Son I want my name on one of those bricks if I kick the bucket. Assuming you can still buy them of course.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 28, 2019, 04:46:16 PM
Given the cost of new builds, I doubt we'd see much benefit to moving. Unless, of course, we're completely buggered for expanding.

Commercial income would be another reason, but I guess they think they've got enough work to do on that for a while before the ground becomes a real problem.

I do strongly suspect the reason for the quick facelift of the North Stand is as a stopgap measure until they decide on a bigger plan, though
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TonyD on July 28, 2019, 04:55:27 PM
Rebuild the North Stand to add 7,000 and rebuild the Holte to what Dortmund have to add another 7,000 - job done.   And put 4 big AV floodlights on the corners of the roofs. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: West Derby Villan on July 28, 2019, 04:57:10 PM
Mines eroded that much you can’t read it!


Mine's much the same. I check on it now and then. Not much relief left in the lettering, but it looked like someone had touched it up with a marker last time I saw it.

Doug's gone. They'd be moved.



Mines eroded so much, only a couple of letters are recognisable.

But just like me, it wants to stay where it is
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 28, 2019, 05:25:18 PM
Be interesting to see how much has actually been changed close season. Deep clean and some re-furbed boxes probably.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 28, 2019, 05:40:13 PM
Rebuild the North Stand to add 7,000 and rebuild the Holte to what Dortmund have to add another 7,000 - job done.   And put 4 big AV floodlights on the corners of the roofs.

The Witton Lane Stand needs improving. The facilties are embarassing. If we are improving it we may as well expand it. Save the Holte expansion for if ever we need to go from fifty odd to sixty thousand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 28, 2019, 06:17:12 PM
It’s not just about adding seats. It’s so much more than that. The guts of our stands, the concourses, the service facilities, the toilets etc are dated. I’m sure they can be improved but it is limited to what extent. It’s the stuff you can’t see that needs upgrading as much as obvious stuff you can.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: purpletrousers on July 28, 2019, 06:57:23 PM
There is no reason we can’t do what Spurs have done, which would also include gig and NFL etc contracts? Given the Manc Clubs won’t be starting over with a stadium and Everton is a bit Far East, we’re surely the prime candidate to do what they have done. A massive redevelopment of B6 including infrastructure and stealing some parkland  in exchange for community access (or the City Centre idea). A year ago I’d not think it was sensible, but given the way things are hopefully shaping up, I don’t see how we can’t do one of the two within 5-10yrs?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 28, 2019, 07:08:20 PM
For me it would have to be the city centre, the markets area is obvious, but there could be an opportunity around constitution hill. which has lots of derelict building and empty plots.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 28, 2019, 07:56:51 PM
Aston Villa play at Villa Park.
If you want to tear the soul out of the club, then move the club.
It would destroy what we know as our club.
Show me one major English club that has pulled this off.
Look at the Arsenal fans know campaigning to get some atmosphere at home games,if that is what people really want count me out.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Monty on July 28, 2019, 08:04:24 PM
Aston Villa play at Villa Park.
If you want to tear the soul out of the club, then move the club.
It would destroy what we know as our club.
Show me one major English club that has pulled this off.
Look at the Arsenal fans know campaigning to get some atmosphere at home games,if that is what people really want count me out.

This, this this this, this this, this, this.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 28, 2019, 08:18:52 PM
Aston Villa play at Villa Park.
If you want to tear the soul out of the club, then move the club.
It would destroy what we know as our club.
Show me one major English club that has pulled this off.
Look at the Arsenal fans know campaigning to get some atmosphere at home games,if that is what people really want count me out.

There's no less atmosphere at the new Arsenal ground than there was at Highbury.  The problem is all seater stadia and the more gentrified nature of the game these days.  It all depends on what you mean by "pulled off".  Man City's new stadium is better in every conceivable way than Maine Road ever was.  I haven't been to the new Spurs ground yet, but it looks amazing.  None of the Bolton fans on my wife's side of the family have ever been nostalgic for Burden Park.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 28, 2019, 08:28:21 PM
The soul of the club isn’t in anything material. It’s in us. We are the soul of the club.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 28, 2019, 08:34:02 PM
Aston Villa play at Villa Park.
If you want to tear the soul out of the club, then move the club.
It would destroy what we know as our club.
Show me one major English club that has pulled this off.
Look at the Arsenal fans know campaigning to get some atmosphere at home games,if that is what people really want count me out.

Aston Villa, when we moved from Perry Barr.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: purpletrousers on July 28, 2019, 08:34:12 PM
Just watching video of Spurs ground (not been yet either & prob not enough aways to this year) and it’s clear it’s a different planet to parts of VP I know; we aren’t in this century and could well prepare for safe standing.

There is a debate when.
There is a debate where.
Is anyone against a complete build somewhere?

I’d aim for something very original, give Thomas Heatherwick a brief to honour what HDE destroyed, have at least part of the ground that honours mosaic, brick work, Leitch, maybe the biggest home end in the country all over again with a horse shoe around it or something.
Done right, and maybe regenerating B6 while we are at it, it wouldn’t be hard to end up with something so much better than we have.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 28, 2019, 08:34:58 PM
Aston Villa play at Villa Park.
If you want to tear the soul out of the club, then move the club.
It would destroy what we know as our club.
Show me one major English club that has pulled this off.
Look at the Arsenal fans know campaigning to get some atmosphere at home games,if that is what people really want count me out.

There's no less atmosphere at the new Arsenal ground than there was at Highbury.  The problem is all seater stadia and the more gentrified nature of the game these days.  It all depends on what you mean by "pulled off".  Man City's new stadium is better in every conceivable way than Maine Road ever was.  I haven't been to the new Spurs ground yet, but it looks amazing.  None of the Bolton fans on my wife's side of the family have ever been nostalgic for Burden Park.

Yep, I think 'show me one club that have pulled this off' gets pretty easily answered with Man City.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AllanW on July 28, 2019, 08:42:45 PM

Yep, I think 'show me one club that have pulled this off' gets pretty easily answered with Man City.

Except that ground was built as the Commonwealth Games stadium for Manchester 2002 not as an expansion for a football club. The club moved in years later as an expedient decision to develop the Maine Road area with the city council. Totally different to Arsenal and Spurs situations.

Citeh situation is more like the Wet Spam except you then need to wash your hands after every meeting with those porn-peddlers ...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: West Derby Villan on July 28, 2019, 08:51:21 PM
Aston Villa play at Villa Park.
If you want to tear the soul out of the club, then move the club.
It would destroy what we know as our club.
Show me one major English club that has pulled this off.
Look at the Arsenal fans know campaigning to get some atmosphere at home games,if that is what people really want count me out.

This, this this this, this this, this, this.

This
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 28, 2019, 08:57:44 PM
Aston Villa play at Villa Park.
If you want to tear the soul out of the club, then move the club.
It would destroy what we know as our club.
Show me one major English club that has pulled this off.
Look at the Arsenal fans know campaigning to get some atmosphere at home games,if that is what people really want count me out.

There's no less atmosphere at the new Arsenal ground than there was at Highbury.  The problem is all seater stadia and the more gentrified nature of the game these days.  It all depends on what you mean by "pulled off".  Man City's new stadium is better in every conceivable way than Maine Road ever was.  I haven't been to the new Spurs ground yet, but it looks amazing.  None of the Bolton fans on my wife's side of the family have ever been nostalgic for Burden Park.

Yep, I think 'show me one club that have pulled this off' gets pretty easily answered with Man City.
If you like soul less mega stadia, fine. It’s all a bit contrived, corporate and sanitized.
But I get the point when the starting point was Maine Road.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 28, 2019, 09:00:13 PM
I do understand why many would want to stay, and if we can expand then that would be ideal.

I think a new stadium would only be discussed if we couldn't expand.

Given a choice between playing in front of 40,000 at Villa Park, or 60,000 a few miles away, I would go for the latter every single time. Even though it would, selfishly, probably be bad for me. Reducing my chances of getting Wembley tickets if we ever get there.

The emotional investment in Villa Park is not a sufficient reason to deny 20,000 people the opportunity to attend Villa home games.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: West Derby Villan on July 28, 2019, 09:02:47 PM
I do understand why many would want to stay, and if we can expand then that would be ideal.

I think a new stadium would only be discussed if we couldn't expand.

Given a choice between playing in front of 40,000 at Villa Park, or 60,000 a few miles away, I would go for the latter every single time. Even though it would, selfishly, probably be bad for me. Reducing my chances of getting Wembley tickets if we ever get there.

The emotional investment in Villa Park is not a sufficient reason to deny 20,000 people the opportunity to attend Villa home games.

I'm sure a good architect could design a 60,000 stadium on the existing Villa Park footprint
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 28, 2019, 09:06:42 PM
Yes, and if they can I'll be happy. Although the previous Witton Lane architect did a shit job. And regardless of what plans we put forward, they'd still need to obtain planning permission.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 28, 2019, 09:07:36 PM

Yep, I think 'show me one club that have pulled this off' gets pretty easily answered with Man City.

Except that ground was built as the Commonwealth Games stadium for Manchester 2002 not as an expansion for a football club. The club moved in years later as an expedient decision to develop the Maine Road area with the city council. Totally different to Arsenal and Spurs situations.

Citeh situation is more like the Wet Spam except you then need to wash your hands after every meeting with those porn-peddlers ...

The question wasn't about 'how' it happened, it was simply about moving to a new ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 28, 2019, 09:12:25 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.
It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 28, 2019, 09:20:07 PM
Play on the moon, I'll still go.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 28, 2019, 09:21:55 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.


Well, the whole idea is that MORE fans will be able go, so with all due respect, that's rubbish.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 28, 2019, 09:22:06 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.
It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.

If you had been watching us in the 1890s, would you have abandoned the club when they left Perry Barr?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 28, 2019, 09:23:12 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.


Well, the whole idea is that MORE fans will be able go, so with all due respect, that's rubbish.

I think plenty of West Ham fans said they wouldn't go if they left Upton Park. Maybe a few didn't, but they've still massively increased their support.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on July 28, 2019, 09:28:09 PM
I'm all for optimism, but let's wait until we get into the real action before we see if a new expanded ground is merited. I'd love it to be the case, but even during the relative success at the start of the lerner years it wasn't as if we were consistently selling out our current ground. Things *might* be different now, and obviously there's no harm in discussing it theoretically, but we're miles away from being able to discuss it as a viable option right now.

In any event, i would have thought that the north stand could be re-developed to get us up to around 50,000?
Quite right, the planning consent we obtained just for the redevelopment of the North Stand would increase Villa Park’s capacity to 53,000 for starters. The city council wants and needs a world class venue , we need it not only for football but for major artists to be able to play here in our City too. As for moving ? No way Jose, use the money to relocate the residents from any local roads likely to be affected by our expansion . We are Aston Villa and this is where we belong.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 28, 2019, 09:29:59 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.
It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.

If you had been watching us in the 1890s, would you have abandoned the club when they left Perry Barr?
My Uber app says it is connecting with 5 Tardis drivers in my area.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 28, 2019, 09:32:45 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.


Well, the whole idea is that MORE fans will be able go, so with all due respect, that's rubbish.
I think you have missed the point.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 28, 2019, 09:45:59 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.
It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.


There's a balance, I've taken my kids once (about 18 months ago) and they're not interested in going again partly because they didn't like the ground and didn't enjoy the trip to get home afterwards (to be fair we were in the doug eliis stand and I know the Holte and Trinity are better). If there are options to improve facilities then not doing so because of nostalgia will be a much better way of losing the next generation than some supposed threat that people wouldn't go if we moved (it might be true for a very small number of people but I reckon within a year most of them would be back).

I'm not even advocating moving, I just think that the logistics of modernising the ground where it is would leave us groundless for about 2 seasons, and that would do much more harm than moving, especially if we ended up completely rebuilding anyway (which would probably be needed).

As i posted yesterday, the size of the plot we own is just too narrow, To keep the ground were it is but remove the constraints you'd need to buy out a massive chunk of Trinity Road, Witton Lane and Nelson Road, you'd then have to buy the gardens on Witton Lane and a big chunk of the park. Even then the Witton Lane side would be very narrow after you'd put the road back in (it's a B road so there's no chance you'd get away with not replacing it) so you'd probably extend a bit to take the near side of Holte Road as well.

After all that you could end up with a plot like this:

(https://i.ibb.co/fFDgDjG/villa2.png) (https://ibb.co/fFDgDjG)

The niggle is that it'd be pushing on 2040 before you'd bought all that land and got all the permission to move roads, handled all the resident complaints, etc. Liverpool are often used as an example but it took them more than 20 years to complete the process and caused a lot of problems - https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2013/may/06/anfield-liverpool-david-conn

This is why I'm of the opinion that if we see a realistic need for a 55-60000 stadium then we need to be open to moving a few miles away from where we are.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 28, 2019, 09:49:35 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.


Well, the whole idea is that MORE fans will be able go, so with all due respect, that's rubbish.
I think you have missed the point.

Yes that's right, it's me who's missed the point.  All the clubs who have moved to bigger grounds and who are filling them are missing out on future generations of fans.   Right.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on July 28, 2019, 09:49:43 PM
I fear change.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: luke95 on July 28, 2019, 09:57:09 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.
It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.

If you had been watching us in the 1890s, would you have abandoned the club when they left Perry Barr?
Perry Barr didn't have 120yrs history behind it nor generations of supporters who consider it as their 2nd home.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 28, 2019, 09:57:53 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.
It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.


There's a balance, I've taken my kids once (about 18 months ago) and they're not interested in going again partly because they didn't like the ground and didn't enjoy the trip to get home afterwards (to be fair we were in the doug eliis stand and I know the Holte and Trinity are better). If there are options to improve facilities then not doing so because of nostalgia will be a much better way of losing the next generation than some supposed threat that people wouldn't go if we moved (it might be true for a very small number of people but I reckon within a year most of them would be back).

I'm not even advocating moving, I just think that the logistics of modernising the ground where it is would leave us groundless for about 2 seasons, and that would do much more harm than moving, especially if we ended up completely rebuilding anyway (which would probably be needed).

As i posted yesterday, the size of the plot we own is just too narrow, To keep the ground were it is but remove the constraints you'd need to buy out a massive chunk of Trinity Road, Witton Lane and Nelson Road, you'd then have to buy the gardens on Witton Lane and a big chunk of the park. Even then the Witton Lane side would be very narrow after you'd put the road back in (it's a B road so there's no chance you'd get away with not replacing it) so you'd probably extend a bit to take the near side of Holte Road as well.

After all that you could end up with a plot like this:

(https://i.ibb.co/fFDgDjG/villa2.png) (https://ibb.co/fFDgDjG)

The niggle is that it'd be pushing on 2040 before you'd bought all that land and got all the permission to move roads, handled all the resident complaints, etc. Liverpool are often used as an example but it took them more than 20 years to complete the process and caused a lot of problems - https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2013/may/06/anfield-liverpool-david-conn

This is why I'm of the opinion that if we see a realistic need for a 55-60000 stadium then we need to be open to moving a few miles away from where we are.



If my kids didn't like Villa park I would sooner get some new kids rather than a new ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on July 28, 2019, 09:59:23 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.
It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.


There's a balance, I've taken my kids once (about 18 months ago) and they're not interested in going again partly because they didn't like the ground and didn't enjoy the trip to get home afterwards (to be fair we were in the doug eliis stand and I know the Holte and Trinity are better). If there are options to improve facilities then not doing so because of nostalgia will be a much better way of losing the next generation than some supposed threat that people wouldn't go if we moved (it might be true for a very small number of people but I reckon within a year most of them would be back).

I'm not even advocating moving, I just think that the logistics of modernising the ground where it is would leave us groundless for about 2 seasons, and that would do much more harm than moving, especially if we ended up completely rebuilding anyway (which would probably be needed).

As i posted yesterday, the size of the plot we own is just too narrow, To keep the ground were it is but remove the constraints you'd need to buy out a massive chunk of Trinity Road, Witton Lane and Nelson Road, you'd then have to buy the gardens on Witton Lane and a big chunk of the park. Even then the Witton Lane side would be very narrow after you'd put the road back in (it's a B road so there's no chance you'd get away with not replacing it) so you'd probably extend a bit to take the near side of Holte Road as well.

After all that you could end up with a plot like this:

(https://i.ibb.co/fFDgDjG/villa2.png) (https://ibb.co/fFDgDjG)

The niggle is that it'd be pushing on 2040 before you'd bought all that land and got all the permission to move roads, handled all the resident complaints, etc. Liverpool are often used as an example but it took them more than 20 years to complete the process and caused a lot of problems - https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2013/may/06/anfield-liverpool-david-conn

This is why I'm of the opinion that if we see a realistic need for a 55-60000 stadium then we need to be open to moving a few miles away from where we are.



If my kids didn't like Villa park I would sooner get some new kids rather than a new ground.

ha made me chuckle
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 28, 2019, 10:04:59 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.
It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.

If you had been watching us in the 1890s, would you have abandoned the club when they left Perry Barr?
Perry Barr didn't have 120yrs history behind it nor generations of supporters who consider it as their 2nd home.
.

No, but you could make similar arguments about Highbury, White Hart Lane, Maine Road, Vicente Calderón, De Meer Stadion and so on. The clubs seem to have moved to new stadia without the world ending.

Given the choice about staying at Villa Park for sentimental reasons, or playing somewhere else in front of an extra twenty thousand people a week, I can't see how anyone could argue that sentiment should be allowed to prevail. It would be the corner shop mentality we used to accuse Doug Ellis of possessing.

Obviously I would rather Villa Park could be expanded to meet our requirements, but if it couldn't, any Board worthy of their position would have to consider moving. I'm not sure how easy it is to expand. Part of me wonders, if it was so easy to expand to have a 60,000 capacity stadium where a 40,000 one used to be, why didn't Arsenal and Tottenham just do that?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on July 28, 2019, 10:14:03 PM
Construction pal was telling me that as a general rule of thumb it’s cheaper to start with a clean site than to adjust what’s already there.

Demolition costs for one thing. He’s got an x Reg transit van and has successfully paid off two ex wives so I have every confidence in the reliability of his advice on multi billion pound projects.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on July 28, 2019, 10:23:14 PM
Construction pal was telling me that as a general rule of thumb it’s cheaper to start with a clean site than to adjust what’s already there.

Demolition costs for one thing. He’s got an x Reg transit van and has successfully paid off two ex wives so I have every confidence in the reliability of his advice on multi billion pound projects.


ha ha infairness it is who Doug would get to do it
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 28, 2019, 10:24:34 PM
Construction pal was telling me that as a general rule of thumb it’s cheaper to start with a clean site than to adjust what’s already there.

Demolition costs for one thing. He’s got an x Reg transit van and has successfully paid off two ex wives so I have every confidence in the reliability of his advice on multi billion pound projects.

Yep, and, as I said, if you built a new ground you'd have a functional ground to play at until the new one was ready, without that we'd end up ground sharing somewhere or paying extra to have the temporary commonwealth fixtures extended for us and using that (which is also a pain in the arse to get to compared to Villa). Personally I'd have a lot more issues with us playing at a temporary ground for an extended period than I would with us moving to a new stadium, designed with an understanding of the clubs tradition and heritage in mind, that was based in, or near, the city centre.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 28, 2019, 10:24:46 PM
Construction pal was telling me that as a general rule of thumb it’s cheaper to start with a clean site than to adjust what’s already there.

Demolition costs for one thing. He’s got an x Reg transit van and has successfully paid off two ex wives so I have every confidence in the reliability of his advice on multi billion pound projects.

He's right.  You only have to look at the decision not to upgrade the lovely old Trinity, but to knock it down and build from scratch.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 28, 2019, 10:31:06 PM
There really isn't any architectural merit left in Villa Park, anyway, let's be honest.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on July 28, 2019, 10:36:20 PM
There really isn't any architectural merit left in Villa Park, anyway, let's be honest.

Very true, Doug fucked that up.  The Trinity Road stand was a thing of beauty despite it being old.  The North Stand is an abomination. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on July 28, 2019, 10:39:37 PM
There really isn't any architectural merit left in Villa Park, anyway, let's be honest.
Construction pal was telling me that as a general rule of thumb it’s cheaper to start with a clean site than to adjust what’s already there.

Demolition costs for one thing. He’s got an x Reg transit van and has successfully paid off two ex wives so I have every confidence in the reliability of his advice on multi billion pound projects.


He's right.  You only have to look at the decision not to upgrade the lovely old Trinity, but to knock it down and build from scratch.



I look at the Glasgow Rangers main stand and wish we had done something similar
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on July 28, 2019, 10:39:46 PM
We are spending a fair few quid upgrading data provision but I’m guessing that is something we have to do to meet VAR obligations whether we are planning on staying at VP for a season or a century.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FrankyH on July 28, 2019, 10:46:38 PM
There really isn't any architectural merit left in Villa Park, anyway, let's be honest.

Maybe not , but the Holte pub , Aston Hall  and some Victorian architecture  around the ground (Barton Arms for one) to me are engrained in our History.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 28, 2019, 10:48:45 PM
It's a stretch to say that the Bartons is "around the ground"!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Axl Rose on July 28, 2019, 10:53:37 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.
It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.


There's a balance, I've taken my kids once (about 18 months ago) and they're not interested in going again partly because they didn't like the ground and didn't enjoy the trip to get home afterwards (to be fair we were in the doug eliis stand and I know the Holte and Trinity are better). If there are options to improve facilities then not doing so because of nostalgia will be a much better way of losing the next generation than some supposed threat that people wouldn't go if we moved (it might be true for a very small number of people but I reckon within a year most of them would be back).

I'm not even advocating moving, I just think that the logistics of modernising the ground where it is would leave us groundless for about 2 seasons, and that would do much more harm than moving, especially if we ended up completely rebuilding anyway (which would probably be needed).

As i posted yesterday, the size of the plot we own is just too narrow, To keep the ground were it is but remove the constraints you'd need to buy out a massive chunk of Trinity Road, Witton Lane and Nelson Road, you'd then have to buy the gardens on Witton Lane and a big chunk of the park. Even then the Witton Lane side would be very narrow after you'd put the road back in (it's a B road so there's no chance you'd get away with not replacing it) so you'd probably extend a bit to take the near side of Holte Road as well.

After all that you could end up with a plot like this:

(https://i.ibb.co/fFDgDjG/villa2.png) (https://ibb.co/fFDgDjG)

The niggle is that it'd be pushing on 2040 before you'd bought all that land and got all the permission to move roads, handled all the resident complaints, etc. Liverpool are often used as an example but it took them more than 20 years to complete the process and caused a lot of problems - https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2013/may/06/anfield-liverpool-david-conn

This is why I'm of the opinion that if we see a realistic need for a 55-60000 stadium then we need to be open to moving a few miles away from where we are.



If my kids didn't like Villa park I would sooner get some new kids rather than a new ground.

Ha!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KevinGage on July 28, 2019, 10:56:55 PM
The North Stand is what, 42, 43 years of age now?  By modern stadia that's almost historic.

I still have to crane my neck anytime I go past the massive AV initials from the motorway (I really should stop doing that) and it was pioneering when it was built. Many clubs copied the design after but none had quite the same effect.

I'd be happy enough to gut the interior and the exterior facing the carpark, mind. The crosswinds in winter aren't much fun either. Celtic have heated seats in some of their sections, so that might be something to look at.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FrankyH on July 28, 2019, 11:01:32 PM
It's a stretch to say that the Bartons is "around the ground"!

Okay , the Tram station , the Aston Tavern and the old Aston Hotel.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: DB on July 28, 2019, 11:18:55 PM
If we stay in the Prem, I can see us doing what Spurs have done, build the stadium on the (more or less) existing site. Unless the owners want somewhere more comercailly attractive, nearer the city centre.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 28, 2019, 11:22:16 PM
If we stay in the Prem, I can see us doing what Spurs have done, build the stadium on the (more or less) existing site. Unless the owners want somewhere more comercailly attractive, nearer the city centre.

Spurs could do that as they had Wembley to move to while they built the new one.  Where could we play in similar circumstances?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 28, 2019, 11:23:42 PM
Alexander Stadium has been suggested.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john2710 on July 28, 2019, 11:28:35 PM
Nothing would stop me from going, wherever the ground was. But it would be heart breaking to see Villa Park torn down, but if we successful over the next 5 years it will become inevitable.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on July 28, 2019, 11:34:47 PM
Alexander Stadium has been suggested.

This, we could definitely play there. Alexander Stadium, complete rebuild at VP. Problem solved.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hinckley Dave on July 28, 2019, 11:39:39 PM
Are we not getting a bit Wolves with all this. We've had a bit of relative success and a few more fans are showing interest in terms of season tickets and suddenly we need 60,000 super stadiums in the city centre?? If this was them talking we'd all be taking the piss. Once this season's done and we've lost as many as we've won, finished mid table etc I'm sure season ticket levels will be back to where they were and sell outs will be only a handful of games. Talk of 35000 fans spread out in a 60000 seat ground will sound daft. Optimism and excitement is high right now and rightly we should try to capitalise on this but let's not start making us sound silly by talk of building a Spurs replica in the city centre. And to those who are criticising Villa Park and saying they'd like a move...yes she has her issues, concourse sizes etc, but she still has something special which no other ground has. It's Villa Park, it's beautiful, it has class, it's not covered in advertising, it's a football ground not a stadium, it's full of history and thousands of memories, it's perfectly imperfect, and it's in Aston. A bit like the old Trinity, once it's gone it's gone and whatever you replaced it with it just wouldn't be the same.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 28, 2019, 11:48:11 PM
We averaged 36,000 last season in the second tier, and are buying players with the intention of competing with the top teams in the land. We have 30,000 season ticket holders but it could have been many more if the total hadn't been capped. We also have a waiting list for season tickets.

Just about every club in the Premier League gets bigger crowds than they did five years ago. Attendances are only going to increasw.

There is no way we are going to be averaging 35,000 in the next few years.

Anyone who thinks Villa can't compete with poxy no marks like West Ham is probably more deluded than the average Wolves fan.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on July 29, 2019, 12:02:37 AM
Are we not getting a bit Wolves with all this. We've had a bit of relative success and a few more fans are showing interest in terms of season tickets and suddenly we need 60,000 super stadiums in the city centre?? If this was them talking we'd all be taking the piss. Once this season's done and we've lost as many as we've won, finished mid table etc I'm sure season ticket levels will be back to where they were and sell outs will be only a handful of games. Talk of 35000 fans spread out in a 60000 seat ground will sound daft. Optimism and excitement is high right now and rightly we should try to capitalise on this but let's not start making us sound silly by talk of building a Spurs replica in the city centre. And to those who are criticising Villa Park and saying they'd like a move...yes she has her issues, concourse sizes etc, but she still has something special which no other ground has. It's Villa Park, it's beautiful, it has class, it's not covered in advertising, it's a football ground not a stadium, it's full of history and thousands of memories, it's perfectly imperfect, and it's in Aston. A bit like the old Trinity, once it's gone it's gone and whatever you replaced it with it just wouldn't be the same.
I can see what your point is Dave but this is all about potential. When we last won the league our average gate was 33,000. If you’d have said to someone then that we’d be shocking for six years, spend three years in the championship and average over 35,000 they’d have poured scorn on  you too. This is about what we could become with some real business nous and vision at the top which we now appear to have .
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 29, 2019, 12:34:07 AM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.


Well, the whole idea is that MORE fans will be able go, so with all due respect, that's rubbish.

I think plenty of West Ham fans said they wouldn't go if they left Upton Park. Maybe a few didn't, but they've still massively increased their support.

And I would bet every one of them who did say that have found their way to go to the new ground and become regulars there. I don't imagine they have lost one fan. The same goes for every single grumbling Arsenal fan, Man City fan, Southampton fan, Brighton fan etc who said they would never watch their team again has. And they got used to it. Not one of them stays at home listening the game on the radio when they could be at The Emirates or wherever out of spite. It's utter nonsense to think that if a spanking new ground was built taking into consideration history and modern top level stadia facilities that any Villa fan would refuse to go.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 29, 2019, 01:22:29 AM
Are we not getting a bit Wolves with all this. We've had a bit of relative success and a few more fans are showing interest in terms of season tickets and suddenly we need 60,000 super stadiums in the city centre?? If this was them talking we'd all be taking the piss. Once this season's done and we've lost as many as we've won, finished mid table etc I'm sure season ticket levels will be back to where they were and sell outs will be only a handful of games. Talk of 35000 fans spread out in a 60000 seat ground will sound daft. Optimism and excitement is high right now and rightly we should try to capitalise on this but let's not start making us sound silly by talk of building a Spurs replica in the city centre. And to those who are criticising Villa Park and saying they'd like a move...yes she has her issues, concourse sizes etc, but she still has something special which no other ground has. It's Villa Park, it's beautiful, it has class, it's not covered in advertising, it's a football ground not a stadium, it's full of history and thousands of memories, it's perfectly imperfect, and it's in Aston. A bit like the old Trinity, once it's gone it's gone and whatever you replaced it with it just wouldn't be the same.

Again (because I answered almost exactly the same point a few pages back) the quickest version of this would need 4-5 years to come together. We have some of the richest owners in world football and they're quite clearly not fucking around. Yes it's getting ahead of ourselves but if your assumptions of everything going to shit is wrong then we'll need to have been thinking about it. Every ground is (or can be) special to the fans, I bet there's thousands of Man City fans with memories from Maine Road, but if every decision you make is about tradition and heritage then, to put it as simply as possible, you get left behind and the tag of 'historians' that some fans like to throw at us will actually have some truth to it.

To put it another way, if a new ground, a few miles away from VP, gave us the commercial boost to really push in to the top 6 and as a result we won the FA cup would you be happy that 2-3 generations of Villa fans who've never seen us lift that trophy have a fantastic new memory to cherish? The commercial side is now massively important in setting the club up to challenge for trophies and, for me, the current state of Villa park plays a big part in our commercial revenue not reflecting the size of the club.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 29, 2019, 01:29:24 AM
It's a stretch to say that the Bartons is "around the ground"!

I'd be happy to stay in the Bartons until the new ground was built.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on July 29, 2019, 01:47:19 AM
For me the development, expansion or rebuild of Villa Park is inevitable in the not too distant future, so there are a few simple options:

a. purchase more land around Villa Park and rebuild the individual stands with reduced capacity during the season.
b. purchase more land around Villa Park, build a new stadium and temporarily move to new Alexander stadium.
c. purchase new land and build new stadium, and remain at Villa Park until complete.

The future of Villa Park seems to very much depend on the ownership and infrastructure of the surrounding land. I would prefer an amazing new stadium where we belong, however I think it would be fair to suggest that relocating would be more financially and logistically viable.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Axl Rose on July 29, 2019, 02:50:29 AM
We could play at St Andrews, the Hawthorns or Molineux. It'd be their first capacity attendance ever, I'd imagine.

Though I'd prefer somewhere cleaner, and people with the normal amount of fingers in the surrounding area.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OzVilla on July 29, 2019, 04:02:01 AM
Wes Edens said something interesting in an interview I saw posted a few weeks ago at some business seminar in the States.

He was asked about buying the Villa and his reply was along the lines of he didn't quite know what to expect but when they arrived at the ground he was awestruck - I think the quote was "it was like walking in and suddenly realising you'd bought Fenway Park'.  He gets it.

I smiled when I heard him say this as regardless of whether we are successful or not Villa Park has and will always be a source of immense pride for me being a Villa fan.  It's historic, it's beautiful (and it still is despite what anyone says) it's authentic and it's home. I've heard it mentioned by commentators and other clubs supporters how great it is that VP is back as a PL ground and they are not talking about the club in general but the ground. Easy for me to say from such a distance granted but the day we move from VP is a day a big chunk of that club dies imo.

Regard Arsenal and Spurs, well Arsenal we're desperately chasing the extra revenue from tourist supporters (38k capacity at Highbury) as were West Ham while Spurs new ground is built on roughly the same footprint as WHL (36k capacity). That's not to say VP couldn't have an upgrade but a 50-55K capacity should be enough. The thought of Aston Villa moving out of Aston - a massive no from me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OzVilla on July 29, 2019, 04:06:01 AM
For me the development, expansion or rebuild of Villa Park is inevitable in the not too distant future, so there are a few simple options:

a. purchase more land around Villa Park and rebuild the individual stands with reduced capacity during the season.
b. purchase more land around Villa Park, build a new stadium and temporarily move to new Alexander stadium.
c. purchase new land and build new stadium, and remain at Villa Park until complete.

The future of Villa Park seems to very much depend on the ownership and infrastructure of the surrounding land. I would prefer an amazing new stadium where we belong, however I think it would be fair to suggest that relocating would be more financially and logistically viable.

Option B if we have to.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Axl Rose on July 29, 2019, 05:50:07 AM
Wes Edens said something interesting in an interview I saw posted a few weeks ago at some business seminar in the States.

He was asked about buying the Villa and his reply was along the lines of he didn't quite know what to expect but when they arrived at the ground he was awestruck - I think the quote was "it was like walking in and suddenly realising you'd bought Fenway Park'.  He gets it.

I smiled when I heard him say this as regardless of whether we are successful or not Villa Park has and will always be a source of immense pride for me being a Villa fan.  It's historic, it's beautiful (and it still is despite what anyone says) it's authentic and it's home. I've heard it mentioned by commentators and other clubs supporters how great it is that VP is back as a PL ground and they are not talking about the club in general but the ground. Easy for me to say from such a distance granted but the day we move from VP is a day a big chunk of that club dies imo.

Regard Arsenal and Spurs, well Arsenal we're desperately chasing the extra revenue from tourist supporters (38k capacity at Highbury) as were West Ham while Spurs new ground is built on roughly the same footprint as WHL (36k capacity). That's not to say VP couldn't have an upgrade but a 50-55K capacity should be enough. The thought of Aston Villa moving out of Aston - a massive no from me.


You've nailed it for me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on July 29, 2019, 06:18:05 AM
If we consider a temporary move to Alexander Stadium, this is worth a read - https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/news/article/434/plans_revealed_for_alexander_stadium_redevelopment.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 29, 2019, 07:10:43 AM
Wes Edens said something interesting in an interview I saw posted a few weeks ago at some business seminar in the States.

He was asked about buying the Villa and his reply was along the lines of he didn't quite know what to expect but when they arrived at the ground he was awestruck - I think the quote was "it was like walking in and suddenly realising you'd bought Fenway Park'.  He gets it.

I smiled when I heard him say this as regardless of whether we are successful or not Villa Park has and will always be a source of immense pride for me being a Villa fan.  It's historic, it's beautiful (and it still is despite what anyone says) it's authentic and it's home. I've heard it mentioned by commentators and other clubs supporters how great it is that VP is back as a PL ground and they are not talking about the club in general but the ground. Easy for me to say from such a distance granted but the day we move from VP is a day a big chunk of that club dies imo.

Regard Arsenal and Spurs, well Arsenal we're desperately chasing the extra revenue from tourist supporters (38k capacity at Highbury) as were West Ham while Spurs new ground is built on roughly the same footprint as WHL (36k capacity). That's not to say VP couldn't have an upgrade but a 50-55K capacity should be enough. The thought of Aston Villa moving out of Aston - a massive no from me.


You've nailed it for me.

100% agree.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on July 29, 2019, 08:12:34 AM
 This is an intetesring debate but as things stand the only "ground improvements" the owners have done is to spruce up the exterior of the North stand.To my knowledge theres no indication that they have anything else planned apart from rebuilding the offices. If all goes well next season and the ground sells out many times they may well look at expanding VP. I don't know of any available brownfield site in the area so moving away from Aston would most likely see us relocate somewhere near the NEC. Personally i'd hate that idea. My choice if it comes to it would be to redevelop Villa Park. Theres room for a bigger and better North Stand and with a lot of arm twisting with the council room could be made for a bigger and better Witton Lane stand. Ridding the club of some of the cheapskate mishmash work under Ellis making the ground more symmetrical and aesthecically more  pleasing to look at in one fell swoop. A capacity of 50,000 to 55,000 is plenty i think and achievable. Improvements to Aston & Witton stations and thats it were done.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: luke95 on July 29, 2019, 08:30:59 AM
If we do ever have to move for a complete rebuild I can not see it being anywhere else but the Alexander/Perry Barr stadium site . Brum city centre would be a none starter
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 29, 2019, 08:39:05 AM
I would add to that The Edge while they are twisting the arm of the Council the acquisition of the redundant strip of land flanking the Aston Expressway to build Aston Villa Approach direct from the HP roundabout to Holy Trinity church.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on July 29, 2019, 08:41:27 AM
I couldn’t see it being anywhere but close to an existing or proposed rail line, staying on the cross city line makes sense.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 29, 2019, 08:52:46 AM
Not finding fault with your idea Peter but Brighton put all their fan attendance pretty much in the one basket of rail access.  The problems generated by the rail operators has made Brighton the nightmare fixture for travelling fans.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on July 29, 2019, 10:48:58 AM
Short-medium term, redevelopment of the north stand seems the obvious choice to me. Existing planning permission in place, build could be done without too much fuss and I think 53,000 capacity would be plenty. let’s worry about complete re-builds/ moving, when we’ve filled a 53,000 ground for a few years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 29, 2019, 11:05:08 AM
Expansion via a new North Stand wouldn’t be a game-changer in terms of revenue. A new stadium could be. The owners will be looking at all options I should think and they’ve done nothing wrong so far. I’m up for a new ground in the city if they are.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 29, 2019, 11:11:10 AM
It was nice of Coventry to move out of their stadium just in case we need it whilst Villa Park is being rebuilt.  ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on July 29, 2019, 11:15:09 AM
It was nice of Coventry to move out of their stadium just in case we need it whilst Villa Park is being rebuilt.  ;)

That would be a real piss take. I'm coming around to the idea.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 29, 2019, 11:25:43 AM
Short-medium term, redevelopment of the north stand seems the obvious choice to me. Existing planning permission in place, build could be done without too much fuss and I think 53,000 capacity would be plenty. let’s worry about complete re-builds/ moving, when we’ve filled a 53,000 ground for a few years.

How many years, after a multi-million pound construction project, would you need to wait for the expense of that development to not look like a massive waste of money?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 29, 2019, 11:28:04 AM
I think the wholesale redevelopment of Aston hinted at by Tony Xia also sounded exciting until one looked at his shoes, but if we were thinking of going closer to the city, the Gun Quarter could be an option. Fairly derelict, hardly any residents save a few student schemes, virtually borders Aston, keeping the integrity of the name, and still North Brum along with lots of our support. I bet the land would be cheaper than Smithfield and the council would be supportive I’d have thought. They haven't thought of any kind of plan for the area at all, it’s the gaping omission from what surrounds the city core. Clockwise from there you’ve got Eastside, Digbeth, Smithfield, The Gay and Chinese quarters, The West End (Mailbox/canals/convention/NIA/Brindleyplace/Five Ways/Broad Street), the Jewellery Quarter, then you’re back at the Gun Quarter.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on July 29, 2019, 12:01:32 PM
Short-medium term, redevelopment of the north stand seems the obvious choice to me. Existing planning permission in place, build could be done without too much fuss and I think 53,000 capacity would be plenty. let’s worry about complete re-builds/ moving, when we’ve filled a 53,000 ground for a few years.

How many years, after a multi-million pound construction project, would you need to wait for the expense of that development to not look like a massive waste of money?
lets be realistic for minute. Most agree we probably need a bigger ground, or may do soon. We can add 10000+ to the ground, relatively easily and cheaply. City centre site and new 60000 ground is a whole different proposition. Spurs new ground on a site they presumably already owned cost 1bn and their fans are now having to pay eye watering prices for season tickets.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 29, 2019, 12:04:25 PM
They were already paying eye watering amounts for season tickets.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 29, 2019, 12:11:03 PM
A shiny new 60k seat stadium isn't happening anytime soon. The owners will want to see us as a consolidated PL side before they even consider it in my opinion. The most likely compromise is the rebuilding of the NS , which needs doing as a matter of urgency.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on July 29, 2019, 12:13:16 PM
What’s the current capacity of the North Stand and would it’s replacement be sufficient to add another 8000 seats to take us to 50,000? Not sure how long building works would take but I presume capacity would be reduced to approx 35,000 for at least half a season with only 3 stands open?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: old man villa fan on July 29, 2019, 12:14:33 PM
The idea of a new stadium on the old Wholesale Markets site is a non-starter.  The reason for moving the markets is to open up the area to re-link Digbeth and Highgate to the centre so that residential areas can be built (see 'The Big City Plan').  The Planners are not going to accept a massive stadium blocking what they are trying to create. Any new major stadium will have to be built outside the inner ring road.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on July 29, 2019, 12:16:49 PM
What’s the current capacity of the North Stand and would it’s replacement be sufficient to add another 8000 seats to take us to 50,000? Not sure how long building works would take but I presume capacity would be reduced to approx 35,000 for at least half a season with only 3 stands open?


North stand is 7k  I imagine you could build the new stand behind it and have a bank of 14000 to get to 50 k
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 29, 2019, 12:18:14 PM
All this talk of a new stadium is a tad premature. Let's just deal with one thing at a time.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KevinGage on July 29, 2019, 12:19:30 PM
Short-medium term, redevelopment of the north stand seems the obvious choice to me. Existing planning permission in place, build could be done without too much fuss and I think 53,000 capacity would be plenty. let’s worry about complete re-builds/ moving, when we’ve filled a 53,000 ground for a few years.

How many years, after a multi-million pound construction project, would you need to wait for the expense of that development to not look like a massive waste of money?
lets be realistic for minute. Most agree we probably need a bigger ground, or may do soon. We can add 10000+ to the ground, relatively easily and cheaply. City centre site and new 60000 ground is a whole different proposition. Spurs new ground on a site they presumably already owned cost 1bn and their fans are now having to pay eye watering prices for season tickets.

Exactly. Even factoring in the lower building costs in Brum, you'd be doing incredibly well to get that for half the price. Which at £500 million is a colossal amount for any set of owners to take on. Liverpool's new stand just on its own was £110 million.  I don't think it's unreasonable that they might want to take their time and make sure the numbers stack up.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on July 29, 2019, 12:21:58 PM
Regarding the corners of the witton lane could they not expand in that area to provide better facilities for the top tier ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on July 29, 2019, 12:22:12 PM
All this talk of a new stadium is a tad premature. Let's just deal with one thing at at time.
Nothing else to talk shit about until we sign another keeper and a striker...unless you enjoy the shithouse thread!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on July 29, 2019, 12:24:07 PM
All this talk of a new stadium is a tad premature. Let's just deal with one thing at at time.
Nothing else to talk shit about until we sign another keeper and a striker...unless you enjoy the shithouse thread!


I am good at talking shit like this
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 29, 2019, 12:32:20 PM
What’s the current capacity of the North Stand and would it’s replacement be sufficient to add another 8000 seats to take us to 50,000? Not sure how long building works would take but I presume capacity would be reduced to approx 35,000 for at least half a season with only 3 stands open?

North Stand 7,086
Witton Lane Stand 9,081
Trinity Road Stand 12,954
Holte End 13,472
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 29, 2019, 12:52:10 PM
What’s the current capacity of the North Stand and would it’s replacement be sufficient to add another 8000 seats to take us to 50,000? Not sure how long building works would take but I presume capacity would be reduced to approx 35,000 for at least half a season with only 3 stands open?

North Stand 7,086
Witton Lane Stand 9,081
Trinity Road Stand 12,954
Holte End 13,472

So to make Villa Park 50,000 capacity, you'd need to more than double the size of the North Stand, and it would then become the biggest stand at Villa Park.  I just can't see them doing that as a half way measure.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on July 29, 2019, 12:52:13 PM
I am sure I read that the Holte was the largest free standing end in European football?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on July 29, 2019, 12:55:01 PM
A shiny new 60k seat stadium isn't happening anytime soon. The owners will want to see us as a consolidated PL side before they even consider it in my opinion. The most likely compromise is the rebuilding of the NS , which needs doing as a matter of urgency.

If it was my money I wouldn’t spend it on increasing the capacity of one stand whilst the medium term plan will likely to be to knock it down again sometime in the next 10 years. The costs would be high and wasteful.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 29, 2019, 12:56:26 PM
I am sure I read that the Holte was the largest free standing end in European football?

It was before Man U added a third tier on the Stretford End.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on July 29, 2019, 12:57:37 PM
I would expect a new North Stand to be a wrap around from the Trinity so it should be able to boost capacity to 50k. If further expansion is required then this would form a horseshoe with the Witton being rebuilt.

The current Holte and Trinity are fine as they are, and they could be significantly improved with more modern catering and toilet facilities.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 29, 2019, 01:06:09 PM
Short-medium term, redevelopment of the north stand seems the obvious choice to me. Existing planning permission in place, build could be done without too much fuss and I think 53,000 capacity would be plenty. let’s worry about complete re-builds/ moving, when we’ve filled a 53,000 ground for a few years.

How many years, after a multi-million pound construction project, would you need to wait for the expense of that development to not look like a massive waste of money?
lets be realistic for minute. Most agree we probably need a bigger ground, or may do soon. We can add 10000+ to the ground, relatively easily and cheaply. City centre site and new 60000 ground is a whole different proposition. Spurs new ground on a site they presumably already owned cost 1bn and their fans are now having to pay eye watering prices for season tickets.

Exactly. Even factoring in the lower building costs in Brum, you'd be doing incredibly well to get that for half the price. Which at £500 million is a colossal amount for any set of owners to take on. Liverpool's new stand just on its own was £110 million.  I don't think it's unreasonable that they might want to take their time and make sure the numbers stack up.

You're actually making my point for me there.

If we go with a full redevelopment costing £500m would anyone agree to spending £100m to replace the north stand now if they're considering a full redevelopment? The Doug Ellis (and I like using that name because the sheer number of problems with the stand is a fantastic legacy for him) would still be a problem because the stand is just too narrow.

If they think we can be attracting 55-60k within 5-6 years then you can't redevelop the north and DE in that timescale to make the ground that size. That's why there are advantages to looking elsewhere.

I agree that inside the ring road would be hard going but, as Percy mentioned, there's a lot of old factory and warehouse units behind st chads (either side of the canal) and I reckon you could get a good sized plot there pretty easily. There'd be planning issues with removing roads (or potentially building over the canal) and I reckon a ground that's a couple of minutes walk from Aston Uni definitely isn't being moved out of it's 'area'.

Again, I'm not saying I want this to happen, I'm just pointing out that, from a pure business perspective it makes more sense than trying to do things quickly on the existing site. If the timescales are 15-20 years then great, stay where we are, buy out as much land around the ground as possible over the next decade and then do a full transformation project with the council. I'd be fine with that, but I'm not sure it's the right approach if our mid term goal is for the club to be fully self-sustaining.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 29, 2019, 01:07:01 PM
I would expect a new North Stand to be a wrap around from the Trinity so it should be able to boost capacity to 50k. If further expansion is required then this would form a horseshoe with the Witton being rebuilt.

The current Holte and Trinity are fine as they are, and they could be significantly improved with more modern catering and toilet facilities.


They're not fine, they're really, really not. Pitch side, maybe, but not back of house. Where are they going to put these toilets, on the roof?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 29, 2019, 01:11:25 PM
Under Lerner I saw the actual plans for two options of a wrap-around North Stand. There was only about 2000 seat difference between the two options, they were also roughly costed to circa £60m.

I just sense with the new ownership they might want to take the club to next level and have the resources to do it.

If Villa Park is to be redeveloped I think it will be the start of a 20 year plan to shift the stadium back 20 metres to use the space behind the North Stand. The Trinity was built so it could be extended at the North End - so this would help in that respect.

But the new stadium option is an interesting one, not just for us, but the city too. Yes it would be ours and but called Villa Park - but it could host all sorts of other events that currently by-pass Birmingham.

A lot of the new MLS stadiums are built close to the centre of cities, the new LAFC one for example and supporter facilities are light years ahead of what we currently have to endure at Villa Park.




Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 29, 2019, 01:17:26 PM
I would expect a new North Stand to be a wrap around from the Trinity so it should be able to boost capacity to 50k. If further expansion is required then this would form a horseshoe with the Witton being rebuilt.

The current Holte and Trinity are fine as they are, and they could be significantly improved with more modern catering and toilet facilities.


If you create that wrap around stand what is actually left of the Villa Park that you're determined to save? You'd have lost the 4 (mostly) self contained stands effect which is one of best things about the ground. Yes the Holte End would still be there untouched but nothing else of the ground would be there anymore (because the work to link the trinity to the North would be huge and would completely change the stand).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 29, 2019, 01:33:55 PM
Under Lerner I saw the actual plans for two options of a wrap-around North Stand. There was only about 2000 seat difference between the two options, they were also roughly costed to circa £60m.

I just sense with the new ownership they might want to take the club to next level and have the resources to do it.

If Villa Park is to be redeveloped I think it will be the start of a 20 year plan to shift the stadium back 20 metres to use the space behind the North Stand. The Trinity was built so it could be extended at the North End - so this would help in that respect.

But the new stadium option is an interesting one, not just for us, but the city too. Yes it would be ours and but called Villa Park - but it could host all sorts of other events that currently by-pass Birmingham.

A lot of the new MLS stadiums are built close to the centre of cities, the new LAFC one for example and supporter facilities are light years ahead of what we currently have to endure at Villa Park.

The last line is the important bit. We all know how important the history of the club is. Put a new stadium in the right place and you could add a museum of sorts, with loads of info about how the club shaped the future of the sport. You could build the ground, from the outside, as a homage to Villa park as it was 30-40 years ago (but with the holte end largely duplicated in place of the north stand) but with modern toilets, kiosks and facilities. Then outside you could easily create a 'fan park' area and invite vendors from things like the Digbeth Dining Club in as well as having street level bars and a massive shop and ticket office.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 29, 2019, 01:37:10 PM
The idea of a new stadium on the old Wholesale Markets site is a non-starter.  The reason for moving the markets is to open up the area to re-link Digbeth and Highgate to the centre so that residential areas can be built (see 'The Big City Plan').  The Planners are not going to accept a massive stadium blocking what they are trying to create. Any new major stadium will have to be built outside the inner ring road.

Any reason why it couldn’t be in the Gun Quarter?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on July 29, 2019, 02:27:05 PM
Having read this interesting discussion I now support a new stadium.

In the city centre is perfect. I will miss VP and the traveling would be an issue but it would be good for the city and the club, so I am pro new build.

#VoteLeave
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Axl Rose on July 29, 2019, 02:42:23 PM
I know it's the NSWE Investment thread, but would it be possible to add a poll regarding what people prefer regarding leaving Villa Park/staying and redeveloping etc?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 29, 2019, 03:06:21 PM
I know it's the NSWE Investment thread, but would it be possible to add a poll regarding what people prefer regarding leaving Villa Park/staying and redeveloping etc?

Added a poll.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Axl Rose on July 29, 2019, 03:11:20 PM
I know it's the NSWE Investment thread, but would it be possible to add a poll regarding what people prefer regarding leaving Villa Park/staying and redeveloping etc?

Added a poll.

Great! Thank you, Paulie.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 29, 2019, 03:15:36 PM
I don't like this only having one option nonsense. That's how Brexit got started.

I'm in favour of rebuilding the North and the Witton Lane Stand to take capacity to at least 55,000. If we are unable to do that, move to a new ground holding at least 60,000.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 29, 2019, 03:28:36 PM
This season is the first where demand has been as high. We're just back in the top division.

Why on earth would anyone gamble on building a new ground, either where we are or elsewhere on the back of that? If demand starts to outstrip supply then perhaps we look at it but how many times in the last (insert however many you wish) years have we had capacity crowds?

That has nothing to do with the facilities either, but all to do with the football, Arsenal and Tottenham had smaller capacities than ours and went bigger after sustained success (modern-day success of finishing Top 4), Liverpool and Manchester clubs similarly. We need to show that we'll challenge over a period of time rather than a knee-jerk reaction to one successful season getting promoted via the play-offs from Division 2.

We may need to update the North and Witton but I'd hold off until we know that crowds will continue, that we can challenge and that it's sustainable. There's nothing worse than half-empty grounds, and I fear that's what would happen if we don't start winning trophies.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 29, 2019, 03:30:23 PM
agreed - this isn't happening in the immediate future,we have to become an established force first.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on July 29, 2019, 03:42:04 PM
Absolutely. We need continued investment in the playing side first, establish ourselves back in the top 6 and look to be qualifying for Champions League. New stadium plans take years to design and implement anyway so there’s no harm in getting the ball rolling and exploring options.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 29, 2019, 03:43:50 PM
Demand already outstrips supply.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 29, 2019, 03:49:41 PM
Demand already outstrips supply.

For season tickets that have been capped at 30k for the first time ever.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 29, 2019, 03:55:04 PM
Demand already outstrips supply.

Not to the point where we need a new stadium it hasnt.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 29, 2019, 03:59:51 PM
Not necessarily. We need to expand the stadium though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on July 29, 2019, 04:03:04 PM
I’ve been to Main Road and the new Man City stadium anyone using it as a example of a good thing is mad
Of all the new clubs that have moved somehow City managed to rip the heart out of their club

it’s the most soulless place in English football bar none

Sad because I like them as a club, but when I went (we lost 4-0) I actually felt sorry for their fans which sounds ridiculous but talking to them they were so disconnected to what they had become

I wouldn’t swap places and be where they are with all their money and success
football is far more than shiny new stadiums with a bit of leg room and space to cart wheel around at half time, who gives a fuck your at a football match

I haven’t been to a single new ground yet where I preferred it to the old one
That could change as I haven’t visited the Riverside yet and Ayrsome park was a hemorrhoid on the arse if football grounds

you millennials wouldn’t have lasted 5 minutes in the cess pit conditions of yesteryear
we’ve come a long way from that but it’s still a football match we going to not the Opera or the Dorchester

it’s a big no from me

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on July 29, 2019, 04:11:39 PM
I went for the last option, as music never lets you down, puts a smile on your face any time, any place.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: thick_mike on July 29, 2019, 04:25:38 PM
I went for the last option, as music never lets you down, puts a smile on your face any time, any place.

Me too, because I’m still buzzing from seeing Nile Rodgers and Chic last night.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 29, 2019, 04:35:11 PM
I’ve been to Main Road and the new Man City stadium anyone using it as a example of a good thing is mad
Of all the new clubs that have moved somehow City managed to ripp the heart out of their club

it’s the most soulless place in English football bar none

Sad because I like them as a club, but when I went (we lost 4-0) I actually felt sorry for their fans which sounds ridiculous but talking to them they were so disconnected to what they had become

I wouldn’t swap places and be where they are with all their money and success
football is far more than shiny new stadiums with a bit of leg room and space to cart wheel around at half time, who gives a fuck your at a football match

I haven’t been to a single new ground yet where I preferred it to the old one
That could change as I haven’t visited the Riverside yet and Ayrsome park was a hemorrhoid  on the arse if footvall grounds

you millennials wouldn’t have lasted 5 minutes in the cess pit conditions of yesteryear
we’ve come a long way from that but it’s still a football match we going to not the Opera or the Dorchester

it’s a big no from me

Riverside is pretty wank tbf.

Of the ones which have improved I'd list Arsenal and Wembley.

Southampton is about the worst.

No reason why we need a tedious identikit stadium, though. Building projects in Birmingham in the last twenty years show that the city is not afraid of being different to be iconic.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 29, 2019, 04:35:31 PM
this thread's beginning to freak me out tbh.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 29, 2019, 04:36:31 PM
this thread's beginning to freak me out tbh.

BOO!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on July 29, 2019, 04:57:58 PM
The idea of a new stadium on the old Wholesale Markets site is a non-starter.  The reason for moving the markets is to open up the area to re-link Digbeth and Highgate to the centre so that residential areas can be built (see 'The Big City Plan').  The Planners are not going to accept a massive stadium blocking what they are trying to create. Any new major stadium will have to be built outside the inner ring road.

Any reason why it couldn’t be in the Gun Quarter?
Theres no available land?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FatSam on July 29, 2019, 05:14:12 PM
If you create that wrap around stand what is actually left of the Villa Park that you're determined to save? You'd have lost the 4 (mostly) self contained stands effect which is one of best things about the ground. Yes the Holte End would still be there untouched but nothing else of the ground would be there anymore (because the work to link the trinity to the North would be huge and would completely change the stand).

I think that you have absolutely hit the nail on the head.

If the process of raising the capacity, or improving the facilities, means losing the character of the historic ground, then what is the point in staying where we are? Especially as it will only ever be a very compromised wrap around stadium given the site constraints.

My own view is that we've actually already lost the character of the historic ground since the old Trinity was demolished. I think the important qualities of the current ground are more to do with forming part of an ensemble with the park, Aston Hall and the church. This ensemble doesn't rely on playing on exactly the same rectangle of grass, as we have for 120 years, and so a Spurs-style re-positioning of the ground to allow for a purpose-built stadium in broadly the same location would be my preference. In fact a re-orientating of the ground to be north-south with a new Holte End opening out towards the park, and a new Witton End opening out towards the station might enhance these relationships.

This obviously depends on how successful we are over the next few years, the funds available, and most importantly, the potential for a wider masterplan vision for Aston that would support a new ground in this location being the premier sports and event venue in the region, with public transport and other infrastructure developed accordingly. Otherwise, another location on the north side of the city centre should be at least considered. I certainly don't think that we should just go ahead and implement a redevelopment that was conceived under Doug's stewardship of the club in the last millennium.

Liverpool obviously made reasonable progress with a relocation under their previous ownership, and Spurs were considering the London Stadium for a time before settling on their current plans. I agree that a soul-less Etihad type stadium would not be the best way to go.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 29, 2019, 05:53:51 PM
I could live with filling in the corners joining the North Stand, and leaving the Holte End as an actual "end".
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 29, 2019, 05:56:06 PM
I don’t think using Man City and West Ham Will ever be good examples to justify a new stadium. They used existing facilities built for the entirely different events. Spurs seems to be the closest thing to something fans actually want.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 29, 2019, 06:07:59 PM
I reckon Charlton Heston at some point must have expressed an opinion that matches how I feel about spuds pulling off something that people reckon we couldn't.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Pat McMahon on July 29, 2019, 06:11:47 PM
I could live with filling in the corners joining the North Stand, and leaving the Holte End as an actual "end".

I don't know how feasible this is but that would be the first thing I would look at too. Viewed from the Holte, it is always striking how narrow the North Stand is - there is a considerable gap and loss of capacity in both corners.

I am sure we could find an architect capable of coming up with a couple of proposals..I'd also rename it the Witton End.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 29, 2019, 06:12:05 PM
I don’t think using Man City and West Ham Will ever be good examples to justify a new stadium. They used existing facilities built for the entirely different events. Spurs seems to be the closest thing to something fans actually want.

Again, it doesn't really matter how they got into the new grounds. The point is, even a half-arsed club who used to be famous like West Ham are pulling in well over 50,000 a game.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: boutrosboutrosgnarly on July 29, 2019, 06:13:32 PM
Ideally would prefer to stay and expand the ground, or at a push (if viable) new ground where we are now.Sadly doubt the second option would ever come to fruition because of the restrictions locally.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on July 29, 2019, 06:20:23 PM
I voted to leave it alone for five years.  There have been so many false dawns I prefer to wait and see what happens.  I'm aware that I may not be around to see how things pan-out in that time but, the club has to come first.  If we go ahead and go for a new stadium we would be like eggs in a biscuit tin if in the awful event we struggled and got relegated.

I would be heartbroken to see us leave Villa Park, I've spent sixty-odd years worshiping there but, I'm not naive enough not to realise it may have to happen, progress and all that; and if we do then surely it will be a sign that the Villa are once again a major force in English football.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy65 on July 29, 2019, 06:23:00 PM
If you create that wrap around stand what is actually left of the Villa Park that you're determined to save? You'd have lost the 4 (mostly) self contained stands effect which is one of best things about the ground. Yes the Holte End would still be there untouched but nothing else of the ground would be there anymore (because the work to link the trinity to the North would be huge and would completely change the stand).

I think that you have absolutely hit the nail on the head.

If the process of raising the capacity, or improving the facilities, means losing the character of the historic ground, then what is the point in staying where we are? Especially as it will only ever be a very compromised wrap around stadium given the site constraints.

My own view is that we've actually already lost the character of the historic ground since the old Trinity was demolished. I think the important qualities of the current ground are more to do with forming part of an ensemble with the park, Aston Hall and the church. This ensemble doesn't rely on playing on exactly the same rectangle of grass, as we have for 120 years, and so a Spurs-style re-positioning of the ground to allow for a purpose-built stadium in broadly the same location would be my preference. In fact a re-orientating of the ground to be north-south with a new Holte End opening out towards the park, and a new Witton End opening out towards the station might enhance these relationships.

This obviously depends on how successful we are over the next few years, the funds available, and most importantly, the potential for a wider masterplan vision for Aston that would support a new ground in this location being the premier sports and event venue in the region, with public transport and other infrastructure developed accordingly. Otherwise, another location on the north side of the city centre should be at least considered. I certainly don't think that we should just go ahead and implement a redevelopment that was conceived under Doug's stewardship of the club in the last millennium.

Liverpool obviously made reasonable progress with a relocation under their previous ownership, and Spurs were considering the London Stadium for a time before settling on their current plans. I agree that a soul-less Etihad type stadium would not be the best way to go.

It would be a lot, lot cheaper to extend what we have rather than move
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 29, 2019, 06:28:07 PM
If you create that wrap around stand what is actually left of the Villa Park that you're determined to save? You'd have lost the 4 (mostly) self contained stands effect which is one of best things about the ground. Yes the Holte End would still be there untouched but nothing else of the ground would be there anymore (because the work to link the trinity to the North would be huge and would completely change the stand).

I think that you have absolutely hit the nail on the head.

If the process of raising the capacity, or improving the facilities, means losing the character of the historic ground, then what is the point in staying where we are? Especially as it will only ever be a very compromised wrap around stadium given the site constraints.

My own view is that we've actually already lost the character of the historic ground since the old Trinity was demolished. I think the important qualities of the current ground are more to do with forming part of an ensemble with the park, Aston Hall and the church. This ensemble doesn't rely on playing on exactly the same rectangle of grass, as we have for 120 years, and so a Spurs-style re-positioning of the ground to allow for a purpose-built stadium in broadly the same location would be my preference. In fact a re-orientating of the ground to be north-south with a new Holte End opening out towards the park, and a new Witton End opening out towards the station might enhance these relationships.

This obviously depends on how successful we are over the next few years, the funds available, and most importantly, the potential for a wider masterplan vision for Aston that would support a new ground in this location being the premier sports and event venue in the region, with public transport and other infrastructure developed accordingly. Otherwise, another location on the north side of the city centre should be at least considered. I certainly don't think that we should just go ahead and implement a redevelopment that was conceived under Doug's stewardship of the club in the last millennium.

Liverpool obviously made reasonable progress with a relocation under their previous ownership, and Spurs were considering the London Stadium for a time before settling on their current plans. I agree that a soul-less Etihad type stadium would not be the best way to go.



You make a good point regarding the Trinity. We got rid of our most iconic stand, we got rid of our famous standing home end (I know that wasn't necessarily through choice) and the Witton Lane stand and North stand are also both relatively new. If we knocked down Villa Park and totally rebuilt it like Spurs and White Hart Lane we wouldn't actually be losing any original stand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 29, 2019, 06:33:06 PM
I’ve been to Main Road and the new Man City stadium anyone using it as a example of a good thing is mad
Of all the new clubs that have moved somehow City managed to rip the heart out of their club

it’s the most soulless place in English football bar none

Sad because I like them as a club, but when I went (we lost 4-0) I actually felt sorry for their fans which sounds ridiculous but talking to them they were so disconnected to what they had become

I wouldn’t swap places and be where they are with all their money and success
football is far more than shiny new stadiums with a bit of leg room and space to cart wheel around at half time, who gives a fuck your at a football match

I haven’t been to a single new ground yet where I preferred it to the old one
That could change as I haven’t visited the Riverside yet and Ayrsome park was a hemorrhoid on the arse if football grounds

you millennials wouldn’t have lasted 5 minutes in the cess pit conditions of yesteryear
we’ve come a long way from that but it’s still a football match we going to not the Opera or the Dorchester

it’s a big no from me


The glaring mistake Middlesbrough made when moving stadiums was that they stayed in the shithole that is Middlesbrough.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 29, 2019, 06:36:06 PM
I'm sure Man City fans are gutted the way their fortunes have changed.

That said, they've not moved into a football stadium, they've into a converted athletics stadium, the same as West Ham and you can tell.

A new ground doesn't have to be a soulless bowl.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 29, 2019, 06:46:38 PM
I don’t think using Man City and West Ham Will ever be good examples to justify a new stadium. They used existing facilities built for the entirely different events. Spurs seems to be the closest thing to something fans actually want.

Again, it doesn't really matter how they got into the new grounds. The point is, even a half-arsed club who used to be famous like West Ham are pulling in well over 50,000 a game.

In London.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 29, 2019, 07:01:14 PM
I don't see how we can do anything substantial with the ground as it's oriented. You can't "just" fill in the corners. You can't raise the Doug. The Trinity's built over a road as it is. And that's the two sides which dictate where the ends go. We have to move the pitch.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 29, 2019, 07:07:11 PM
I don’t think using Man City and West Ham Will ever be good examples to justify a new stadium. They used existing facilities built for the entirely different events. Spurs seems to be the closest thing to something fans actually want.

Again, it doesn't really matter how they got into the new grounds. The point is, even a half-arsed club who used to be famous like West Ham are pulling in well over 50,000 a game.

In London.

Did all the London clubs used to get bigger crowds than us when neither they nor us were filled to capacity?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 29, 2019, 07:12:16 PM
There's some desperate attempts to try to prove Villa's support is rubbish. Not really sure why, our support was spectacular up and down the country while we were in the second tier, and people are more enthused about the club than they have been in decandes. The ticket sales speak for themselves. We have a choice, expand... or force our own fans to miss out.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: exigo on July 29, 2019, 07:42:02 PM
Ideally, we'd approach it along the lines of Borussia Dortmund's ground. It's not just a soulless bowl, they've taken each stand up in size, and managed to fill the corners in a way that still keeps the traditional rectangle and four sides in place.

If there was no issue with the residents behind the park on the Witton side, I'd love us to take both the North and Witton stands up to the size of the Trinity, or even beyond. But do it with a coherent plan to take the whole ground up in size – that's a big indictment of the Ellis era, that four new stands have so little connection to each other.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 29, 2019, 07:47:15 PM
I'm sure Man City fans are gutted the way their fortunes have changed.

That said, they've not moved into a football stadium, they've into a converted athletics stadium, the same as West Ham and you can tell.

A new ground doesn't have to be a soulless bowl.

All the Leicester fans I know really like the King Power Stadium.  Even though that's relatively new they're already talking about expanding it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: four fornicholl on July 29, 2019, 08:10:10 PM
Ideally, we'd approach it along the lines of Borussia Dortmund's ground. It's not just a soulless bowl, they've taken each stand up in size, and managed to fill the corners in a way that still keeps the traditional rectangle and four sides in place.

If there was no issue with the residents behind the park on the Witton side, I'd love us to take both the North and Witton stands up to the size of the Trinity, or even beyond. But do it with a coherent plan to take the whole ground up in size – that's a big indictment of the Ellis era, that four new stands have so little connection to each other.
The four individual stands, whatever the pros and cons, are the beauty of Villa Park for so many.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 29, 2019, 08:15:09 PM
The idea of a new stadium on the old Wholesale Markets site is a non-starter.  The reason for moving the markets is to open up the area to re-link Digbeth and Highgate to the centre so that residential areas can be built (see 'The Big City Plan').  The Planners are not going to accept a massive stadium blocking what they are trying to create. Any new major stadium will have to be built outside the inner ring road.

Any reason why it couldn’t be in the Gun Quarter?
Theres no available land?

Is that a question or an answer?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 29, 2019, 08:44:41 PM
There's some desperate attempts to try to prove Villa's support is rubbish. Not really sure why, our support was spectacular up and down the country while we were in the second tier, and people are more enthused about the club than they have been in decandes. The ticket sales speak for themselves. We have a choice, expand... or force our own fans to miss out.

Or let's see how next the season or two goes. No-one is forcing any fans to miss out at all. What an over dramatic  comment.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 29, 2019, 08:55:56 PM
I don't think anyone is saying we should start building next summer but i think the club should start looking at the options and talking to the council. If we have a decent season then around this time next year would be about right to start fan consultation ahead of starting work in 2022 or 23.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on July 29, 2019, 09:00:10 PM
It would be nice to have a plan in place and the appropriate permissions attained for when we are ready to make changes.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 29, 2019, 09:00:59 PM
There's some desperate attempts to try to prove Villa's support is rubbish. Not really sure why, our support was spectacular up and down the country while we were in the second tier, and people are more enthused about the club than they have been in decandes. The ticket sales speak for themselves. We have a choice, expand... or force our own fans to miss out.

Or let's see how next the season or two goes. No-one is forcing any fans to miss out at all. What an over dramatic  comment.


Alright then, not optimising our massive potential. How's about that, better?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 29, 2019, 09:04:22 PM
I don’t think using Man City and West Ham Will ever be good examples to justify a new stadium. They used existing facilities built for the entirely different events. Spurs seems to be the closest thing to something fans actually want.

Again, it doesn't really matter how they got into the new grounds. The point is, even a half-arsed club who used to be famous like West Ham are pulling in well over 50,000 a game.

I know man, I'm on your side. My point was that using those grounds a reason not to do it makes no sense. I want us to do this once and do it right. Do the research needed, on us as fans, on the area, on all of the commercial benefits and build a future Villa Park that is everything we would want. Right now as much as we all love Villa Park it's a hodge podge of stands that don't do the club proud.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 29, 2019, 09:04:38 PM
There's some desperate attempts to try to prove Villa's support is rubbish. Not really sure why, our support was spectacular up and down the country while we were in the second tier, and people are more enthused about the club than they have been in decandes. The ticket sales speak for themselves. We have a choice, expand... or force our own fans to miss out.

Or let's see how next the season or two goes. No-one is forcing any fans to miss out at all. What an over dramatic  comment.

Of course they are. If we have 50,000 Villa fans wanting to attend matches and only 39,000 can do so, then that's 11,000 missing out. An so on.

The longer we leave it, the greater the lost revenue.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 29, 2019, 09:05:06 PM
There's some desperate attempts to try to prove Villa's support is rubbish. Not really sure why, our support was spectacular up and down the country while we were in the second tier, and people are more enthused about the club than they have been in decandes. The ticket sales speak for themselves. We have a choice, expand... or force our own fans to miss out.

Or let's see how next the season or two goes. No-one is forcing any fans to miss out at all. What an over dramatic  comment.


Alright then, not optimising our massive potential. How's about that, better?

We've just got back up from the championship after three season's. The next step is turning ourselves into a solid top flight club. Once we've done that, then let's look at it. Oh and how many is our massive potential?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 29, 2019, 09:08:18 PM
There's some desperate attempts to try to prove Villa's support is rubbish. Not really sure why, our support was spectacular up and down the country while we were in the second tier, and people are more enthused about the club than they have been in decandes. The ticket sales speak for themselves. We have a choice, expand... or force our own fans to miss out.

Or let's see how next the season or two goes. No-one is forcing any fans to miss out at all. What an over dramatic  comment.

Of course they are. If we have 50,000 Villa fans wanting to attend matches and only 39,000 can do so, then that's 11,000 missing out. An so on.

The longer we leave it, the greater the lost revenue.

Well, let's see if we sell out every game next season first and then maybe the season after. We've just got back up. Let's sort out the on the field side first.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 29, 2019, 09:11:06 PM
Nah, let's look at it now. Our stadium isn't big enough for a club of our stature any more.

Unless you believe no marks like West Ham and Sunderland are bigger than Aston Villa...

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 29, 2019, 09:13:29 PM
Nah, let's look at it now. Our stadium isn't big enough for a club of our stature any more.




Are you basing that on because we've just been promoted or because we've just spent over £100m?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 29, 2019, 09:17:45 PM
On the basis that Arsenal, Tottenham, Newcastle, Sunderland, West Ham, Man City, Man United and Liverpool all have bigger grounds than us. Everton will have soon.

You think Villa are only the tenth biggest club in England?

Everybody else has boosted their capacity or has plans to do do. I'm not asking for us to do anything out of the ordinary. Expand, as all our competitors  (and Sunderland), have done.

Look elsewhere in the Premier League. How many clubs have the same capacity they had when John Major was Prime Minister?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 29, 2019, 09:20:32 PM
On the basis that Arsenal, Tottenham, Newcastle, Sunderland, West Ham, Man City, Man United and Liverpool all have bigger grounds than us. Everton will have soon.

You think Villa are only the tenth biggest club in England?

Everybody else has boosted their capacity or has plans to do do. I'm not asking for us to do anything out of the ordinary. Expand, as all our competitors, and Sunderland, have done.

I agree, but let's establish ourselves up here first then look at it. There's no immediate rush.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 29, 2019, 09:25:44 PM
There is an immediate rush. Supply does not meet demand. Obviously nothing will happen before next summer at the earliest, anyway, so announce proposals to expand but make them conditional and put them on hold if we have a disastrous season.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on July 29, 2019, 09:29:21 PM
I’m pretty sure as fans we are facing the same dilemma that Spurs and Everton went through. We all know that Spurs are delighted with their new state of the art £1bn stadium and I expect the same for Everton once they move from their spiritual home.

Villa Park is my second home as it is for many thousands of us, but as mentioned previously, part of the soul was ripped out of it when the Trinity and Holte were flattened, so replacing the current stands with a modern football stadium (not a soulless bowl) surely is the way to progress, so for me it’s just a question of where it should be located and what we do when the build is in progress.

With regards to the Etihad, whilst it may be soulless inside, it does offer an excellent match day experience outside the ground with great facilities for food, drink, entertainment and parking. I don’t know if Spurs have the same but this is what a modern football stadium needs to provide.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 29, 2019, 09:30:11 PM
There is an immediate rush. Supply does not meet demand. Obviously nothing will happen before next summer at the earliest, anyway, so announce proposals to expand but make them conditional and put them on hold if we have a disastrous season.


So there is an immediate rush, our stadium isn't big enough for a club of our stature any more but we can put the plans on hold if we have a disastrous season. Okey dokey.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 29, 2019, 09:34:02 PM
Well, yes. Prepare for the wanted scenario while having a back up plan for if things don't go right. Just like we did when Smith and Purslow were discussing transfer budgets before the playoff final outcome was known.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 29, 2019, 09:38:15 PM
I wonder how many Wolves fans were discussing moving grounds or expanding after they got up and I wonder how many of us laughed at them for getting ahead of their selves?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 29, 2019, 09:38:33 PM
I've never been in another ground that I felt had a soul. Really don't care about them. Given a choice between 33,000 watching Villa from a sparse Holte, beholden to an aged Trinity in a world that doesn't care, or 60,000 watching a team trying to batter all-comers in The Best New Ground In The World, I'll go with the new.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on July 29, 2019, 09:39:39 PM
There is an immediate rush. Supply does not meet demand. Obviously nothing will happen before next summer at the earliest, anyway, so announce proposals to expand but make them conditional and put them on hold if we have a disastrous season.


your off your head mate, you've worked yourself up on a internet thread and think it's some imminent thing your discussing when it's not
they won't be announcing any major ground expansion plans any time soon

we've only just been able to buy the new kit it was so late coming out and the official website was still advertising play off tickets 5 weeks after it was all over,
if you ring up the ticket office you get cut off more often than not so I don't think they will be all over plans for a ground expansion and buying up some spare land in the centre of Birmingham to make your dreams come true right now

sorry to burst your little dream bubble
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 29, 2019, 09:41:09 PM
I've never been in another ground that I felt had a soul. Really don't care about them. Given a choice between 33,000 watching Villa from a sparse Holte, beholden to an aged Trinity in a world that doesn't care, or 60,000 watching a team trying to batter all-comers in The Best New Ground In The World, I'll go with the new.

Where do the other 27k fans come from?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 29, 2019, 09:44:29 PM
There is an immediate rush. Supply does not meet demand. Obviously nothing will happen before next summer at the earliest, anyway, so announce proposals to expand but make them conditional and put them on hold if we have a disastrous season.


your off your head mate, you've worked yourself up on a internet thread and think it's some imminent thing your discussing when it's not
they won't be announcing any major ground expansion plans any time soon

we've only just been able to buy the new kit it was so late coming out and the official website was still advertising play off tickets 5 weeks after it was all over,
if you ring up the ticket office you get cut off more often than not so I don't think they will be all over plans for a ground expansion and buying up some spare land in the centre of Birmingham to make your dreams come true right now

sorry to burst your little dream bubble

Did you type that with your feet?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 29, 2019, 09:49:18 PM
I've never been in another ground that I felt had a soul. Really don't care about them. Given a choice between 33,000 watching Villa from a sparse Holte, beholden to an aged Trinity in a world that doesn't care, or 60,000 watching a team trying to batter all-comers in The Best New Ground In The World, I'll go with the new.

Where do the other 27k fans come from?

We had the record second division crowd, the record third division crowd, and after the Holte’s last stand the record Premier League crowd. We had six crowds over 40,000 as a third division club. We once had a Central League crowd of 29000. We’ve just had excellent support for three years in the Championship. But if we spend hundreds of millions on players and a state of the art ground, fuck knows where the support will come from. I mean, we’re good fans, but we’re no West Ham are we?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 29, 2019, 09:57:35 PM
The West Midlands is the biggest urban conurbation outside London, and we're the biggest, most successful club in it.  We've also got all of the surrounding counties where there aren't any big teams to draw from.  Birmingham is also the youngest city in the country, so that means loads of untapped fans just waiting to come to see us. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 29, 2019, 10:14:05 PM
The West Midlands is the biggest urban conurbation outside London, and we're the biggest, most successful club in it.  We've also got all of the surrounding counties where there aren't any big teams to draw from.  Birmingham is also the youngest city in the country, so that means loads of untapped fans just waiting to come to see us. 

I genuinely think the fact we've heard nothing about the North Stand other than cleaning it up a bit is a sign they're looking at the bigger picture, which I think is the sensible thing now.

Whilst expanding capacity purely on the basis of it looking like we'll have good crowds this season would be jumping the gun, as said, it isn't just about numbers of people in the ground, it is facilities too, and the facilities in two sides of the ground are prehistoric compared to those in other stadiums - look at what people going to see Arsenal and Spurs experience in their grounds and compare that to not having enough room to swing a cat in the Upper Doug, or queueing for 20 minutes and failing to get a warm bottle of Carlsberg at half time.

The facilities for fans are utterly abysmal, and increasingly clubs we have seen as our peers (or lessers) are offering their fans a significantly better experience. We can not just ignore that.

A significantly improved ground would improve crowds, and - unfortunately, this would mean leaving Aston - so would a better located one.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on July 29, 2019, 10:18:02 PM
Rebuild the North Stand, fill in the corners, make it up to 50,000.  The need is there, more people on the planet now than ever, make use of it.  Birmingham is a fantastic city, I'm sure that the likes of Christian Purslow will turn the football club back into an internationally renowned club but it might take a bit of time.  The stadium though, could be done next summer.  In-between London and Manchester, there is fuck all worth watching. might as well take advantage of that!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 29, 2019, 10:18:55 PM
Rebuild the North Stand, fill in the corners, make it up to 50,000.  The need is there, more people on the planet now than ever, make use of it.  Birmingham is a fantastic city, I'm sure that the likes of Christian Purslow will turn the football club back into an internationally renowned club but it might take a bit of time.  The stadium though, could be done next summer.  In-between London and Manchester, there is fuck all worth watching. might as well take advantage of that!

But the facilities remain poor.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on July 29, 2019, 10:27:51 PM
Rebuild the North Stand, fill in the corners, make it up to 50,000.  The need is there, more people on the planet now than ever, make use of it.  Birmingham is a fantastic city, I'm sure that the likes of Christian Purslow will turn the football club back into an internationally renowned club but it might take a bit of time.  The stadium though, could be done next summer.  In-between London and Manchester, there is fuck all worth watching. might as well take advantage of that!

But the facilities remain poor.

Yes they do and need sorting.  It has to be a systemic change and the matchday experience needs to be a whole lot better, I agree. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: danno on July 29, 2019, 10:28:12 PM
If the owners see us as a top half premier league side we'll redevelop the north stand.

If they intend for us to rub shoulders with Juventus Bayern etc on a regular basis, they'll be planning on building a new stadium.

Bayern moved, Juventus moved, I think if we have any serious ambition of living up to our history (rather than living in it) we would probably have to move too.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: old man villa fan on July 29, 2019, 10:29:15 PM
The idea of a new stadium on the old Wholesale Markets site is a non-starter.  The reason for moving the markets is to open up the area to re-link Digbeth and Highgate to the centre so that residential areas can be built (see 'The Big City Plan').  The Planners are not going to accept a massive stadium blocking what they are trying to create. Any new major stadium will have to be built outside the inner ring road.

Any reason why it couldn’t be in the Gun Quarter?
Theres no available land?

Is that a question or an answer?

The area looks quite built up and no clear large plot that could be the centre for development.  Bear in mind that it is not just the stadium but clear space around.  The clearest area has the Hockley substation built over it.  The area contains a very significant number of small industrial/commercial businesses.  It is not like other areas e.g. Eastside where there is a lot of derelict land.  Not everybody can travel by public transport and there are those that do not want to, so a fair car parking infrastructure is required.  Add to this, the City vision of developing the canal area into higher quality residential and you see that there are very few areas near the city centre.  In fact the area offering the best opportunity is towards that tip on the hill.

To make a move financially viable, the stadium would need to be built with other attractions to draw people in for other than match days.  One thing that would be a big tourist draw and something that I am surprised has never been built, is a large scale industrial museum to showcase the 'City of a thousand trades'.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 29, 2019, 10:36:01 PM
I don’t think using Man City and West Ham Will ever be good examples to justify a new stadium. They used existing facilities built for the entirely different events. Spurs seems to be the closest thing to something fans actually want.

Again, it doesn't really matter how they got into the new grounds. The point is, even a half-arsed club who used to be famous like West Ham are pulling in well over 50,000 a game.

In London.

Did all the London clubs used to get bigger crowds than us when neither they nor us were filled to capacity?

I've no idea. What I do understand though, is that the Premier League juggernaut keeps on rolling and that London is perfectly placed to take advantage.

In the future perhaps that could happen in Birmingham. If the Villa (and potentially the other West Midlands clubs too) become successful, then crowds will follow. The potential is huge. But there has to be some measure of success to warrant spending millions, or even billions, on a stadium.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 29, 2019, 10:42:16 PM
I don’t think using Man City and West Ham Will ever be good examples to justify a new stadium. They used existing facilities built for the entirely different events. Spurs seems to be the closest thing to something fans actually want.

Again, it doesn't really matter how they got into the new grounds. The point is, even a half-arsed club who used to be famous like West Ham are pulling in well over 50,000 a game.

In London.

Did all the London clubs used to get bigger crowds than us when neither they nor us were filled to capacity?

I've no idea. What I do understand though, is that the Premier League juggernaut keeps on rolling and that London is perfectly placed to take advantage.

In the future perhaps that could happen in Birmingham. If the Villa (and potentially the other West Midlands clubs too) become successful, then crowds will follow. The potential is huge. But there has to be some measure of success to warrant spending millions, or even billions, on a stadium.


Why? It's not my money, but then I'm not a multibillionaire sport club owner.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 29, 2019, 10:53:17 PM
As supporters, live a little. It's not as if any of us will be involved in any development, whatever happens. Dream big. Dream bigger than filled-in corners and twice-as-big-but-still-as-shit North Stand. Dream 26k single bank Holte. Dream restored Trinity. Dream Witton Bank End. Dream Witton Lane Lions Clubs, dream walk-round concourses and street accessed concessions. Dream hard enough, they might come true.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hinckley Dave on July 29, 2019, 11:01:14 PM
I keep hearing that these days the actual through the gate punter isn't that important, financially, to clubs in the top division anymore, it's all about tv money. So having a full 42000 seat ground is not going to stop us competing with other clubs with bigger grounds. It's all about who has the richest owners. Chelsea suddenly had a rich owner and started competing and winning with a ground smaller than ours. Likewise clubs with bigger grounds, West Ham, Sunderland, Newcastle with less wealthy owners haven't. If we regularly sell out 30000 season tickets each season and start getting waiting lists then we can start talking about expansion but right now it's not needed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 29, 2019, 11:02:00 PM
If the owners see us as a top half premier league side we'll redevelop the north stand.

If they intend for us to rub shoulders with Juventus Bayern etc on a regular basis, they'll be planning on building a new stadium.

Bayern moved, Juventus moved, I think if we have any serious ambition of living up to our history (rather than living in it) we would probably have to move too.

Exactly.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 29, 2019, 11:08:28 PM
Bayern moved, Juventus moved, I think if we have any serious ambition of living up to our history (rather than living in it) we would probably have to move too.

Worth mentioning also that Juventus moved - to a significantly smaller stadium - 69,000 to 41,500 - because the facilities at the older stadium were so poor.

Also interesting (and I didn't realise this until i just checked on google) but since moving in 2011, they've only averaged 38,000

Juventus are such a weird club. If they played all their home games in Southern Italy, they'd sell 80,000 tickets week in, week out, but their home crowds are abysmal and have been for years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on July 29, 2019, 11:14:53 PM
Bayern moved, Juventus moved, I think if we have any serious ambition of living up to our history (rather than living in it) we would probably have to move too.

Worth mentioning also that Juventus moved - to a significantly smaller stadium - 69,000 to 41,500 - because the facilities at the older stadium were so poor.

Also interesting (and I didn't realise this until i just checked on google) but since moving in 2011, they've only averaged 38,000

Juventus are such a weird club. If they played all their home games in Southern Italy, they'd sell 80,000 tickets week in, week out, but their home crowds are abysmal and have been for years.

Yep Torino the bigger club.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 29, 2019, 11:19:30 PM
Bayern moved, Juventus moved, I think if we have any serious ambition of living up to our history (rather than living in it) we would probably have to move too.

Worth mentioning also that Juventus moved - to a significantly smaller stadium - 69,000 to 41,500 - because the facilities at the older stadium were so poor.

Also interesting (and I didn't realise this until i just checked on google) but since moving in 2011, they've only averaged 38,000

Juventus are such a weird club. If they played all their home games in Southern Italy, they'd sell 80,000 tickets week in, week out, but their home crowds are abysmal and have been for years.

Yep Torino the bigger club.

Juventus are easily, easily the best supported club in Italy.

Everywhere except Turin on match day.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 29, 2019, 11:20:52 PM
Bayern moved, Juventus moved, I think if we have any serious ambition of living up to our history (rather than living in it) we would probably have to move too.

Worth mentioning also that Juventus moved - to a significantly smaller stadium - 69,000 to 41,500 - because the facilities at the older stadium were so poor.

Also interesting (and I didn't realise this until i just checked on google) but since moving in 2011, they've only averaged 38,000

Juventus are such a weird club. If they played all their home games in Southern Italy, they'd sell 80,000 tickets week in, week out, but their home crowds are abysmal and have been for years.

Yep Torino the bigger club.

How on earth did you arrive at that conclusion?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: danno on July 29, 2019, 11:30:15 PM

Worth mentioning also that Juventus moved - to a significantly smaller stadium - 69,000 to 41,500 - because the facilities at the older stadium were so poor.

Also interesting (and I didn't realise this until i just checked on google) but since moving in 2011, they've only averaged 38,000

Think it's interesting that match day revenues actually increased (doubled even) after as you say the attendances halved.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/251160/revenue-of-juventus-turin-by-stream/

Do you think that's just a lot more corporate boxes? We'd have to sell a lot of balti pies to double our match day takings!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 29, 2019, 11:33:44 PM
Doubling our matchday takings could be achieved by selling to all the people who wanted to buy something the thing they'd like to buy, I reckon.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 29, 2019, 11:36:06 PM

Worth mentioning also that Juventus moved - to a significantly smaller stadium - 69,000 to 41,500 - because the facilities at the older stadium were so poor.

Also interesting (and I didn't realise this until i just checked on google) but since moving in 2011, they've only averaged 38,000

Think it's interesting that match day revenues actually increased (doubled even) after as you say the attendances halved.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/251160/revenue-of-juventus-turin-by-stream/

Do you think that's just a lot more corporate boxes? We'd have to sell a lot of balti pies to double our match day takings!


The attendances didn't halve - the capacity at the old stadium was 69k but it was barely half full most of the time, and with next to no corporate facilities.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on July 29, 2019, 11:42:44 PM
Bayern moved, Juventus moved, I think if we have any serious ambition of living up to our history (rather than living in it) we would probably have to move too.

Worth mentioning also that Juventus moved - to a significantly smaller stadium - 69,000 to 41,500 - because the facilities at the older stadium were so poor.

Also interesting (and I didn't realise this until i just checked on google) but since moving in 2011, they've only averaged 38,000

Juventus are such a weird club. If they played all their home games in Southern Italy, they'd sell 80,000 tickets week in, week out, but their home crowds are abysmal and have been for years.

Yep Torino the bigger club.

How on earth did you arrive at that conclusion?

I was joking...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 29, 2019, 11:48:57 PM
When you say, "old stadium", are you referring to the Delle Alpi, that was built about 3 years before the Doug?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 29, 2019, 11:55:11 PM
When you say, "old stadium", are you referring to the Delle Alpi, that was built about 3 years before the Doug?

Yes, their previous stadium - built for the 1990 World Cup.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 30, 2019, 12:09:03 AM
They always hated it. From Wiki...

"The delle Alpi's design was widely criticised due to the poor visibility. This was caused mainly by the distance between the stands and the pitch. Views from the lower tier were also restricted due to the positioning of advertising hoardings. The stadium's location on the outskirts of town never found favour with fans, and the stadium design left spectators exposed to the elements. These factors contributed to low attendances; in the 2005–06 season, for example, Juventus' average attendance was 35,880. The poor visibility led to very low attendances. For example, in the Coppa Italia home match against Sampdoria in the 2001–02 season, only 237 spectators showed up."
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 30, 2019, 12:09:49 AM
Rebuild the North Stand, fill in the corners, make it up to 50,000.  The need is there, more people on the planet now than ever, make use of it.  Birmingham is a fantastic city, I'm sure that the likes of Christian Purslow will turn the football club back into an internationally renowned club but it might take a bit of time.  The stadium though, could be done next summer.  In-between London and Manchester, there is fuck all worth watching. might as well take advantage of that!

But the facilities remain poor.

Yes they do and need sorting.  It has to be a systemic change and the matchday experience needs to be a whole lot better, I agree. 

As I've said before the design of the Upper Trinity in the concourse is pretty terrible, not much you can do that or indeed the Upper Witton which is hemmed in. From memory the lower tiers of both stands are a little better in at least you can breath when it's a full house.

The Holte is really the only stand where with a bit of foresight you have more than enough space to work with to reduce bottleneck queues at half time.

It's a very interesting thread this. 15 pages in about 2 days indicates there's a good level of opinion and tbh I was mostly expecting a tree hugging response of leaving VP over my dead body so quite interested to see plenty pretty much indifferent to us staying or potentially moving.

Guess times are changing and for new generation of fans it's not just about the sightlines and 90 minutes on the pitch but pre match build up and service that you get at likes of Etihad and Spurs ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 30, 2019, 12:15:11 AM
Last sentence of above post - exactly
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 30, 2019, 12:19:27 AM
There's some desperate attempts to try to prove Villa's support is rubbish. Not really sure why, our support was spectacular up and down the country while we were in the second tier, and people are more enthused about the club than they have been in decandes. The ticket sales speak for themselves. We have a choice, expand... or force our own fans to miss out.

This man knows.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 30, 2019, 12:21:15 AM
I don't know how to spell "decades", it seems. 🙁
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 30, 2019, 12:26:49 AM
If we were to move to Smithfields, then its unlikely to be for a good few years regardless. Worth noting that you could be a Cockney Villain and jump on HS2 and be in New Villa Park quicker than you could drive from Halesowen to it the way the roads are at the moment.

The point being, the possibilities for commercial revenue in the city centre are huge. You'd have a hotel full every weekend for one. You'd have people drinking in your bars and restaurants on non-match days too. You'd have increased foot traffic 7 days a week to your club shop and museum.

It's not something achievable in Aston. The infrastructure just doesn't exist and never will.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FatSam on July 30, 2019, 12:46:12 AM
I keep hearing that these days the actual through the gate punter isn't that important, financially, to clubs in the top division anymore, it's all about tv money.

It’s less important than it used to be, but not unimportant. Man Utd match day revenues are comfortably the highest at £110m, and Spurs now make £800k per game from restaurants. It all helps to build momentum that leads to things like larger sponsorship deals as well. It’s not to be sniffed at when our shirt sponsorship is something like £10m per season isn’t it? If you are looking at ways to make the club more competitive, then it has to be part of the discussion.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on July 30, 2019, 01:41:18 AM
My first thoughts on ground development were leave Aston over my dead body, build a world class stadium here with the back drop of Aston Hall, Park and Church which just can’t be bought. There’s plenty of scope for road improvement on both Lichfield road and park circus for improved traffic flows and still ample land for parking ( if we get a shift on and stop building new industrial/ warehouse units between us and Spaghetti Junction. That said if someone can show me plans for a world class 80,000 capacity stadium in the East Side of the City centre ( not to be shared as in Milan) with access for bars, restaurants , shopping and hotels, coupled to the scope for commercial opportunities, which a unrivalled football museum, stadium tour and concerts could bring whilst really pissing on our little neighbours turf from the greatest of heights I’d seriously consider it .
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 30, 2019, 06:59:45 AM
I don’t think using Man City and West Ham Will ever be good examples to justify a new stadium. They used existing facilities built for the entirely different events. Spurs seems to be the closest thing to something fans actually want.

Again, it doesn't really matter how they got into the new grounds. The point is, even a half-arsed club who used to be famous like West Ham are pulling in well over 50,000 a game.

In London.

Did all the London clubs used to get bigger crowds than us when neither they nor us were filled to capacity?

I've no idea. What I do understand though, is that the Premier League juggernaut keeps on rolling and that London is perfectly placed to take advantage.

In the future perhaps that could happen in Birmingham. If the Villa (and potentially the other West Midlands clubs too) become successful, then crowds will follow. The potential is huge. But there has to be some measure of success to warrant spending millions, or even billions, on a stadium.

Exactly. Just because we've had a waiting list for the first time in years, doesn't automatically mean we should start looking to move. Let's just see how things progress on the playing side. Besides, the fact they are knocking down and re-building Villa Village and the Academy suggests we're not going anywhere anytime soon.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 30, 2019, 07:58:09 AM
If we’re going to compete at the very top we need to grow revenue multiple times what it is now or we’ll always fall foul of FFP. I suspect that NS and WE intend to compete at the very top. Big changes ahead.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on July 30, 2019, 08:01:49 AM
Yep that revenue needs to grow at an alarming rate to just compete with West Ham, Everton and Newcastle. It’s taken Spurs nearly 20 years to get a turnover on a par with Arsenal and Chelsea.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 30, 2019, 08:18:54 AM
If we’re going to compete at the very top we need to grow revenue multiple times what it is now or we’ll always fall foul of FFP. I suspect that NS and WE intend to compete at the very top. Big changes ahead.

Agreed. Doesn't mean investing billions on a new stadium yet though.

We'd pour scorn if Leeds had been promoted and 5heur fans said they wanted a brand new stadium etc.

We need to wait first, the team has to be priority. Spurs in my view have gone about it the right way. They built the team, had success and now have a stadium. We've just been promoted after years in the second division.

The potential fan base for us is huge, we're in the right place to attract plastic fans from everywhere, as well as our existing fanbase being pretty damn big too.

We just need to make sure we can get a decent foothold this season. Waiting a year before advancing plans makes the most sense.

I did ask before how many times we'd sold out and the answer, as I think we all know, is not many. Let's not build it until we know they'll come to see what's happening inside.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 30, 2019, 08:22:45 AM
I dont think anybody is saying they want anything for next season and if it was a new stadium, you'd be talking 10 years anyway.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on July 30, 2019, 08:26:22 AM
Code: [Select]
Im not an advocate of leaving B6 for me that would be a very very sad day if we ever did. The owners have said very little on this subject so all of the comments on here are pure speculation. So my purely hypothetical take on moving Villa Park is this. There was an announcement recently that the 3 massive gasometers in Nechells are being demolished. Thats a huge plot of land and less than a mile from VP. Then theres the rumour that Boris is looking to scrap HS2 (despite all his bluster the other day). If so theres a massive piece of prime land up for grabs at Millenium point. Theres plans already in for the tram to be extended into the area. I said previously that if we did move then the NEC would appear logical from a land and connectivity perspective. All just speculation of course as theres a small matter of re-establishing the Villa as one of the Premier leagues big players.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on July 30, 2019, 08:29:41 AM
Im not an advocate of leaving B6 for me that would be a very very sad day if we ever did. The owners have said very little on this subject so all of the comments on here are pure speculation. So my purely hypothetical take on moving Villa Park is this. There was an announcement recently that the 3 massive gasometers in Nechells are being demolished (the ones painted claret and blue) Thats a huge plot of land and less than a mile from VP. Then theres the rumour that Boris is looking to scrap HS2 (despite all his bluster the other day). If so theres a massive piece of prime land up for grabs. Theres plans already in for the tram to be extended into the area. I said previously that if we did move then the NEC would appear logical from a land and connectivity perspective. All just speculation of course as theres a small matter of re-establishing the Villa as one of the Premier leagues big players.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on July 30, 2019, 08:31:38 AM
Im not an advocate of leaving B6 for me that would be a very very sad day if we ever did. The owners have said very little on this subject so all of the comments on here are pure speculation. So my purely hypothetical take on moving Villa Park is this. There was an announcement recently that the 3 massive gasometers in Nechells are being demolished (the ones painted claret and blue) Thats a huge plot of land and less than a mile from VP. Then theres the rumour that Boris is looking to scrap HS2 (despite all his bluster the other day). If so theres a massive piece of prime land up for grabs. Theres plans already in for the tram to be extended into the area. I said previously that if we did move then the NEC would appear logical from a land and connectivity perspective. All just speculation of course as theres a small matter of re-establishing the Villa as one of the Premier leagues big players.
Sorry guys dunno what happened here. I was trying to modify my post.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 30, 2019, 08:43:23 AM
I dont think anybody is saying they want anything for next season and if it was a new stadium, you'd be talking 10 years anyway.

Given the poll's first option is wait 5 years, the rest are all about getting on with it, and the way people are talking, I presumed people wanted to get on with it. Not a 10 year wait.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Smith on July 30, 2019, 08:46:48 AM
Given that land near the city centre will be prohibitively expensive, is already likely to be earmarked by the council and brings with it issues around transport, parking and policing then I think it is a non-starter.

If we were looking for an alternative further out then somewhere close to a main motorway junction and served by two train stations and with good bus links and space to expand is hard to better.

Nothing I have read above persuades me that we should move.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 30, 2019, 08:47:51 AM
If we’re going to compete at the very top we need to grow revenue multiple times what it is now or we’ll always fall foul of FFP. I suspect that NS and WE intend to compete at the very top. Big changes ahead.

Agreed. Doesn't mean investing billions on a new stadium yet though.

We'd pour scorn if Leeds had been promoted and 5heur fans said they wanted a brand new stadium etc.

Maybe. And then we'd be jealous if they were filling it every week while we were playing at a smaller ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on July 30, 2019, 08:54:07 AM
Given that land near the city centre will be prohibitively expensive, is already likely to be earmarked by the council and brings with it issues around transport, parking and policing then I think it is a non-starter.

If we were looking for an alternative further out then somewhere close to a main motorway junction and served by two train stations and with good bus links and space to expand is hard to better.

Nothing I have read above persuades me that we should move.

I’d disagree with your assertion re:Transport Chris, you’d be closer to the Transport hub of the City centre which means far more people would use public transport, bus and train, than drive.

That said despite the attractions and maybe an initial attraction to a close to the City Centre site, I’d prefer to stay and redevelop our existing site. However huge development of public transport options will be needed to get planning I suspect.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: stevo_st on July 30, 2019, 09:03:25 AM
The process will take +5yrs to get land deals, planning etc done.

Any club with big ambition would already be getting on with it to see if they can make the numbers to work, and whether it’s in the best interests of the club.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 30, 2019, 10:33:13 AM
With the anti-car nature of the City you'd think they'd welcome this idea. They are closing car parks around Symphony Hall and the Rep so this fits the agenda.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Smith on July 30, 2019, 10:36:52 AM
Given that land near the city centre will be prohibitively expensive, is already likely to be earmarked by the council and brings with it issues around transport, parking and policing then I think it is a non-starter.

If we were looking for an alternative further out then somewhere close to a main motorway junction and served by two train stations and with good bus links and space to expand is hard to better.

Nothing I have read above persuades me that we should move.

I’d disagree with your assertion re:Transport Chris, you’d be closer to the Transport hub of the City centre which means far more people would use public transport, bus and train, than drive.

That said despite the attractions and maybe an initial attraction to a close to the City Centre site, I’d prefer to stay and redevelop our existing site. However huge development of public transport options will be needed to get planning I suspect.

Perhaps but I’m not convinced that people who don’t already would start to use public transport, a lot of people are just wedded to their cars. You can look at Small Heath to evidence that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 30, 2019, 10:38:33 AM
I dont think anybody is saying they want anything for next season and if it was a new stadium, you'd be talking 10 years anyway.

Given the poll's first option is wait 5 years, the rest are all about getting on with it, and the way people are talking, I presumed people wanted to get on with it. Not a 10 year wait.

But what does the wait 5 years option really mean? Wait that long and then start looking at the options or get all th eplans drawn up, find plots, etc and then trigger things in 5 years if everything is still favouring it?

Personally I think the latter is the right approach (but I'd go with 3-4 years not 5 so we can be on course to kick on in the post commonwealth games 'bubble') and the more I think of it the less reasons I can find to stay at the current site if we're planning a near total rebuild.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 30, 2019, 10:42:08 AM
Nobody's mentioned the pollution reduction/congestion charge measures the council are committed to introducing in relation to the city centre.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 30, 2019, 10:45:07 AM
It is looking a bit Wolves on here now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 30, 2019, 10:59:35 AM
Wolves have just finished in th etop half on the top-flight for the first time in nearly 40 years, they need 4-5 years to show it's not a flash in the pan. We were regularly top half of the league for 20 years and are coming back from a 7-8 year 'blip' of relegation battles and lower league football. The circumstances are very different and we're not taling about qualifying for the champions league this year, just pointing out that we should be considering our options for a new ground given 1 stand is woefully out of date, another is barely fit for purpose and the final 2, whilst functional, have a number of problems that would be hard to resolve.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 30, 2019, 11:07:16 AM
During our decade of relegation battles,  eventual relegation and becoming a mid table Championship club our support home and away has been magnificent, regardless of the opposition.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 30, 2019, 11:22:45 AM
For me it comes from a reflection on our owners. They have clearly shown they are not here to mess around and that they have the financial firepower to match that desire.

From day one - a take over that would normally take weeks, was completed using a team of the UK's best legal people in 5 days to the clearing of the clubs mess of debts and mortgages to what we see now, the 100% backing of the new manager to the tune of +£120m.

They aren't here to use us a plaything or an ego trip. They are here to compete.

And as much as I truly love Villa Park, a state of the art, fan-centric stadium that has brilliant facilities and the capacity to earn seriously more revenue - from a matchday fan buying beers in the ground through to hosting a series of mega concerts close-season, must be on their list of areas where the club has to improve massively if it does want to compete with the very best in World...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: WarszaVillan on July 30, 2019, 11:28:23 AM
Modernise Villa Park, make it larger, improve the facilities, etc. But please don't move. Walking through the park by Aston Hall and seeing Villa Park come into view is one of those things that makes life worthwhile.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 30, 2019, 11:33:23 AM
Modernise Villa Park, make it larger, improve the facilities, etc. But please don't move. Walking through the park by Aston Hall and seeing Villa Park come into view is one of those things that makes life worthwhile.

Agreed. And there is so much that can be done on site. I really don't understand the calls to move. Versus the opportunity to keep Villa Park alive as a football venue in its current form but with significant improvements and capacity boosts, I think people would ultimately live to regret a move very much tbh.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Monty on July 30, 2019, 11:34:32 AM
Modernise Villa Park, make it larger, improve the facilities, etc. But please don't move. Walking through the park by Aston Hall and seeing Villa Park come into view is one of those things that makes life worthwhile.

Totally agree. Without that location there's a part of it that wouldn't be the Villa anymore.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hillbilly on July 30, 2019, 11:35:00 AM
We don’t need a bigger stadium, we need a better stadium. Villa’s attendances have never really been much to write home about bar the odd blip.

Also my preference is for four stands with open corners and brick faces. That’s Villa Park and I love the view of the trees in the park. Not that anyone should give too hoots what I think.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on July 30, 2019, 11:41:22 AM
The first part of all of this is actually improving the facilities at Villa Park as soon as possible. Our owners have a wealth of knowledge of sport, and sports teams in America. They will know the match day experience in America and should be able to easily identify all the flaws with each of our stands facilities...at the very least, I would expect them to have had teams researching and reporting back to them on the match day experiences at Villa Park, and creating realistic solutions that can be implemented to address the issues.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on July 30, 2019, 11:50:14 AM
We don’t need a bigger stadium, we need a better stadium. Villa’s attendances have never really been much to write home about bar the odd blip.

Also my preference is for four stands with open corners and brick faces. That’s Villa Park and I love the view of the trees in the park. Not that anyone should give too hoots what I think.


I concur


Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on July 30, 2019, 12:13:53 PM
Any updates on ticket office , academy and shop where demolition was due to start on 22/7 and be finished in August ? Where is it all being relocated  ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 30, 2019, 12:19:21 PM
Modernise Villa Park, make it larger, improve the facilities, etc. But please don't move. Walking through the park by Aston Hall and seeing Villa Park come into view is one of those things that makes life worthwhile.

Totally agree. Without that location there's a part of it that wouldn't be the Villa anymore.
Exactly.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on July 30, 2019, 12:26:59 PM
For me it comes from a reflection on our owners. They have clearly shown they are not here to mess around and that they have the financial firepower to match that desire.

From day one - a take over that would normally take weeks, was completed using a team of the UK's best legal people in 5 days to the clearing of the clubs mess of debts and mortgages to what we see now, the 100% backing of the new manager to the tune of +£120m.

They aren't here to use us a plaything or an ego trip. They are here to compete.

And as much as I truly love Villa Park, a state of the art, fan-centric stadium that has brilliant facilities and the capacity to earn seriously more revenue - from a matchday fan buying beers in the ground through to hosting a series of mega concerts close-season, must be on their list of areas where the club has to improve massively if it does want to compete with the very best in World...

I agree but with Edens comparing Villa Park with Fenway Park, I think it's more likely that they look to get that without moving. If they ever did reach the decision that a move was needed, I imagine every avenue would have been explored and reluctantly reaching that conclusion.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 30, 2019, 12:28:06 PM
We don’t need a bigger stadium, we need a better stadium. Villa’s attendances have never really been much to write home about bar the odd blip.

Also my preference is for four stands with open corners and brick faces. That’s Villa Park and I love the view of the trees in the park. Not that anyone should give too hoots what I think.

So. Villa Park then. Just with improvements.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: not3bad on July 30, 2019, 12:32:04 PM
I agree Villa Park with improvements. I'd never get used to a different ground, and I wouldn't want to.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 30, 2019, 12:42:57 PM
I wouldn't want to. But IF we can't get planning permission to expand the ground sufficiently, I would rather move and play in front of 60,000 elsewhere than in front of 40,000 at Villa Park with thousands of our fans unable to get tickets to see us play.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on July 30, 2019, 12:48:03 PM
Any updates on ticket office , academy and shop where demolition was due to start on 22/7 and be finished in August ? Where is it all being relocated  ?

There were plenty of rubble filled skips outside the Academy last week so it looks to have started, also it wasn’t possible to park outside the ticket office, just over the road in the away coach park.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villa_cads on July 30, 2019, 01:40:52 PM
We don’t need a bigger stadium, we need a better stadium. Villa’s attendances have never really been much to write home about bar the odd blip.

Also my preference is for four stands with open corners and brick faces. That’s Villa Park and I love the view of the trees in the park. Not that anyone should give too hoots what I think.

I concur


Likewise - the ground needs modification no doubt, but not another bowl variation or filled in corners as an afterthought. We should restore Villa Park as a beacon of traditional British football ground ideals fit for modern times, four distinctly separate stands, carefully hemmed into the space it's grown from, influenced by the Jacobean/Victorian context of the surrounding area and unified by the best of contemporary architecture and engineering. If that adds some seats along the way, then all the better. There a few grounds that are as instantly recognisable as Villa Park, let's keep it that way.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 30, 2019, 02:17:21 PM
We don’t need a bigger stadium, we need a better stadium. Villa’s attendances have never really been much to write home about bar the odd blip.

Also my preference is for four stands with open corners and brick faces. That’s Villa Park and I love the view of the trees in the park. Not that anyone should give too hoots what I think.

I concur


Likewise - the ground needs modification no doubt, but not another bowl variation or filled in corners as an afterthought. We should restore Villa Park as a beacon of traditional British football ground ideals fit for modern times, four distinctly separate stands, carefully hemmed into the space it's grown from, influenced by the Jacobean/Victorian context of the surrounding area and unified by the best of contemporary architecture and engineering. If that adds some seats along the way, then all the better. There a few grounds that are as instantly recognisable as Villa Park, let's keep it that way.
Spot on mate.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on July 30, 2019, 02:31:14 PM
With some creative thinking, a good relationship with the local community/council and new Stands on Witton Lane and North Stand, we'd be able to reach 55k I'm sure, and that would do us.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villa75 on July 30, 2019, 02:35:13 PM
The ground and the immediate surrounding area, and the decades of memories involving my father, brother, and my now grown up children, are a major part of my match day enjoyment.

I'm sure I'm in a minority but, I don't think I would spend the hours I do, travelling a couple of hundred miles at a time, to go to a new stadium.

I'm a dying breed though. I get into the ground about 15 minutes before the game starts, sit in my seat, and I stay there until the end. The facilities, or lack of, have never been important to me.

There are grounds that hold more than ours. There are grounds that have better facilities, if that's your thing. But there is, and only ever will be, one Villa Park. It's not my 'second home'. It is home.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FatSam on July 30, 2019, 02:42:45 PM
I haven’t voted in the poll because I don’t know what I think the best solution is. I’m just keen that the club explores all of the options, in the same way that Liverpool, Tottenham and Everton have done, each with a different end result. I don’t know what the end result should be in our case, and I wouldn’t want to pre-empt this process. I have more confidence in the current owners undertaking a proper options appraisal than I ever had with Xia, Lerner or Ellis. I don’t have confidence that the scheme conceived by Ellis in the last millennium is the right course of action now, and so wouldn’t want us to rush to re-build the north stand without having considered all of the options.

I am broadly in favour of staying in the same location, but not if it limits our potential. Instinctively, I think that becoming more successful in the current location would require an overarching vision for the regeneration of the area with investment in infrastructure to match. I want us to be rubbing shoulders with the biggest and the best, and if that means we have to relocate within the areas of North Birmingham that have been mentioned in this thread, then so be it. However, I am fundamentally opposed to moving to some identikit stadium on a retail park. I would only be in favour of relocating if it is essentially a reconnection with our roots, rather than a disconnection from them (i.e. reconnecting with our roots by showing the same level of ambition as Rinder).

Even if we did re-build completely, either on the same site or elsewhere, I would be in favour of four stands rather than a bowl (at least from the second tier upwards) and a single-tier kop stand. I would like those four stands to have been conceived together rather than independently as is currently the case. I find the haphazard relationship between the three stands that were built in less than a decade really disappointing.

I would be happy for relatively minor and inexpensive improvements to be made to the current stands whilst all of the options are being considered, and we are (hopefully) consolidating our position in the top half of the EPL. The proposals for Everton’s new ground allow for future expansion if justified by demand. It would be difficult for us to justify a 60,000 capacity any time soon, but I think it is important to anticipate that the level of demand might increase in future. International tournaments and European finals would obviously boost the local economy if they could be attracted to a redeveloped stadium.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 30, 2019, 03:15:07 PM
Wolves have just finished in th etop half on the top-flight for the first time in nearly 40 years, they need 4-5 years to show it's not a flash in the pan. We were regularly top half of the league for 20 years and are coming back from a 7-8 year 'blip' of relegation battles and lower league football. The circumstances are very different and we're not taling about qualifying for the champions league this year, just pointing out that we should be considering our options for a new ground given 1 stand is woefully out of date, another is barely fit for purpose and the final 2, whilst functional, have a number of problems that would be hard to resolve.

7-8 years is more than a 'blip'! We've also not won a trophy for 23 years and never played in the Champions League.

I'm not sure why, just because we've finally been promoted back to where we all agree we belong, we feel that Villa Park is suddenly a shithole that needs erasing from memory so we can go somewhere flash.

I'm as positive about our potential future as the next person, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. If it was your money, would you speculate in this way? Just because we have wealthy owners doesn't mean we should get all entitled and demand they spend more.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 30, 2019, 03:30:53 PM
Wolves have just finished in th etop half on the top-flight for the first time in nearly 40 years, they need 4-5 years to show it's not a flash in the pan. We were regularly top half of the league for 20 years and are coming back from a 7-8 year 'blip' of relegation battles and lower league football. The circumstances are very different and we're not taling about qualifying for the champions league this year, just pointing out that we should be considering our options for a new ground given 1 stand is woefully out of date, another is barely fit for purpose and the final 2, whilst functional, have a number of problems that would be hard to resolve.

7-8 years is more than a 'blip'! We've also not won a trophy for 23 years and never played in the Champions League.

I'm not sure why, just because we've finally been promoted back to where we all agree we belong, we feel that Villa Park is suddenly a shithole that needs erasing from memory so we can go somewhere flash.

I'm as positive about our potential future as the next person, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. If it was your money, would you speculate in this way? Just because we have wealthy owners doesn't mean we should get all entitled and demand they spend more.

If it was my money, I’d be getting on with it, because I’d be buying some of the world’s best players and I know for a fact that if we had a team like Man City or Liverpool we’d need a bigger ground than either of them has got at the minute. Only the owners (and people close to them) know the extent of their ambition, but if it’s to constantly compete for trophies and play in the Champions League they should build the new ground or massively increase capacity and improve facilities at Villa Park.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 30, 2019, 03:37:29 PM
Wolves have just finished in th etop half on the top-flight for the first time in nearly 40 years, they need 4-5 years to show it's not a flash in the pan. We were regularly top half of the league for 20 years and are coming back from a 7-8 year 'blip' of relegation battles and lower league football. The circumstances are very different and we're not taling about qualifying for the champions league this year, just pointing out that we should be considering our options for a new ground given 1 stand is woefully out of date, another is barely fit for purpose and the final 2, whilst functional, have a number of problems that would be hard to resolve.

7-8 years is more than a 'blip'! We've also not won a trophy for 23 years and never played in the Champions League.

I'm not sure why, just because we've finally been promoted back to where we all agree we belong, we feel that Villa Park is suddenly a shithole that needs erasing from memory so we can go somewhere flash.

I'm as positive about our potential future as the next person, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. If it was your money, would you speculate in this way? Just because we have wealthy owners doesn't mean we should get all entitled and demand they spend more.

It's not just the fact that we're back up and having a resurgence, it's the fact that if we're ever going to be one of the really successful clubs in the UK, we'll need a lot more income and a bigger ground.  Everybody's entitled to their opinion, but for me the fact that it's quite a nice walk past Aston Hall is secondary to the fact that it's really difficult to park anywhere, then get away afterwards, and the seating is cramped in a lot of the ground and getting served at half time is nearly impossible.  Obviously new grounds don't get built 6 months from having the idea, I reckon it's at least a 5 year project, from finding a potential site, to selecting architects, to drawing up plans, getting permission, choosing the construction company, getting it built and fitted out and so on.  Probably even longer than that.

So it's absolutely not a case of "we finished in 5th and won the play offs, let's build a new 60,000 stadium quick."
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 30, 2019, 03:58:08 PM
Wolves have just finished in th etop half on the top-flight for the first time in nearly 40 years, they need 4-5 years to show it's not a flash in the pan. We were regularly top half of the league for 20 years and are coming back from a 7-8 year 'blip' of relegation battles and lower league football. The circumstances are very different and we're not taling about qualifying for the champions league this year, just pointing out that we should be considering our options for a new ground given 1 stand is woefully out of date, another is barely fit for purpose and the final 2, whilst functional, have a number of problems that would be hard to resolve.

7-8 years is more than a 'blip'! We've also not won a trophy for 23 years and never played in the Champions League.

I'm not sure why, just because we've finally been promoted back to where we all agree we belong, we feel that Villa Park is suddenly a shithole that needs erasing from memory so we can go somewhere flash.

I'm as positive about our potential future as the next person, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. If it was your money, would you speculate in this way? Just because we have wealthy owners doesn't mean we should get all entitled and demand they spend more.

It's not just the fact that we're back up and having a resurgence, it's the fact that if we're ever going to be one of the really successful clubs in the UK, we'll need a lot more income and a bigger ground.  Everybody's entitled to their opinion, but for me the fact that it's quite a nice walk past Aston Hall is secondary to the fact that it's really difficult to park anywhere, then get away afterwards, and the seating is cramped in a lot of the ground and getting served at half time is nearly impossible.  Obviously new grounds don't get built 6 months from having the idea, I reckon it's at least a 5 year project, from finding a potential site, to selecting architects, to drawing up plans, getting permission, choosing the construction company, getting it built and fitted out and so on.  Probably even longer than that.

So it's absolutely not a case of "we finished in 5th and won the play offs, let's build a new 60,000 stadium quick."


I started out writing a long post but Risso has nailed about half of it. The bit that he didn't add is that, for me, 7-8 years is a blip for a club that is one of the biggest in the country; in terms of trophies, average attendance, online following, years in the top flight, the fact that we've won the European cup and plenty more reasons. Comparing us to Wolves is to completely ignore almost everything that makes Villa the club it is and isn't something I'd expect from our own fans, I guess I'm just not sure why some people on here seem determined to play down the potential of the club. I guess they just see what clubs like Chelsea, Man City, etc have done as being somehow dirty and unwanted (there's even posts on here claiming man city have lost their soul and they wouldn't trade what we are for their trophies) for those people I think you might have to get used to the idea that, if things go to plan, we're going to be disliked by more than a handful of local nothing clubs.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 30, 2019, 04:20:56 PM
Wolves have just finished in th etop half on the top-flight for the first time in nearly 40 years, they need 4-5 years to show it's not a flash in the pan. We were regularly top half of the league for 20 years and are coming back from a 7-8 year 'blip' of relegation battles and lower league football. The circumstances are very different and we're not taling about qualifying for the champions league this year, just pointing out that we should be considering our options for a new ground given 1 stand is woefully out of date, another is barely fit for purpose and the final 2, whilst functional, have a number of problems that would be hard to resolve.

7-8 years is more than a 'blip'! We've also not won a trophy for 23 years and never played in the Champions League.

I'm not sure why, just because we've finally been promoted back to where we all agree we belong, we feel that Villa Park is suddenly a shithole that needs erasing from memory so we can go somewhere flash.

I'm as positive about our potential future as the next person, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. If it was your money, would you speculate in this way? Just because we have wealthy owners doesn't mean we should get all entitled and demand they spend more.

100%, nail on head.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on July 30, 2019, 04:27:08 PM
Wolves have just finished in th etop half on the top-flight for the first time in nearly 40 years, they need 4-5 years to show it's not a flash in the pan. We were regularly top half of the league for 20 years and are coming back from a 7-8 year 'blip' of relegation battles and lower league football. The circumstances are very different and we're not taling about qualifying for the champions league this year, just pointing out that we should be considering our options for a new ground given 1 stand is woefully out of date, another is barely fit for purpose and the final 2, whilst functional, have a number of problems that would be hard to resolve.

7-8 years is more than a 'blip'! We've also not won a trophy for 23 years and never played in the Champions League.

I'm not sure why, just because we've finally been promoted back to where we all agree we belong, we feel that Villa Park is suddenly a shithole that needs erasing from memory so we can go somewhere flash.

I'm as positive about our potential future as the next person, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. If it was your money, would you speculate in this way? Just because we have wealthy owners doesn't mean we should get all entitled and demand they spend more.

It's not just the fact that we're back up and having a resurgence, it's the fact that if we're ever going to be one of the really successful clubs in the UK, we'll need a lot more income and a bigger ground.  Everybody's entitled to their opinion, but for me the fact that it's quite a nice walk past Aston Hall is secondary to the fact that it's really difficult to park anywhere, then get away afterwards, and the seating is cramped in a lot of the ground and getting served at half time is nearly impossible.  Obviously new grounds don't get built 6 months from having the idea, I reckon it's at least a 5 year project, from finding a potential site, to selecting architects, to drawing up plans, getting permission, choosing the construction company, getting it built and fitted out and so on.  Probably even longer than that.

So it's absolutely not a case of "we finished in 5th and won the play offs, let's build a new 60,000 stadium quick."


I started out writing a long post but Risso has nailed about half of it. The bit that he didn't add is that, for me, 7-8 years is a blip for a club that is one of the biggest in the country; in terms of trophies, average attendance, online following, years in the top flight, the fact that we've won the European cup and plenty more reasons. Comparing us to Wolves is to completely ignore almost everything that makes Villa the club it is and isn't something I'd expect from our own fans, I guess I'm just not sure why some people on here seem determined to play down the potential of the club. I guess they just see what clubs like Chelsea, Man City, etc have done as being somehow dirty and unwanted (there's even posts on here claiming man city have lost their soul and they wouldn't trade what we are for their trophies) for those people I think you might have to get used to the idea that, if things go to plan, we're going to be disliked by more than a handful of local nothing clubs.

The biggest challenge isn’t so much the stadium though it’s one of a number of key items on NSWE to-do list, the biggest is commercial income and closing the gap to Spurs. We’ll have a Turnover of somewhere approaching €200m Euros this year that’s half what Spurs will rake in and whilst some will be down to new stadium and them being in the CL the majority is down to commercial sponsorship and deals. Purslow and the owners need to really pull through on this, as I see it, decent blue chip shirt sponsorship, kit deals and a host of other partnership plans need to be his focus now he’s got the playing side moving in the right direction. As Risso said the stadium is a key factor in that but in my view it’s a medium to long term decision that just needs to be considered and planned for now. As has been stated, we’re ahead of schedule on the NSWE plan, maybe the stadium stuff gets bought forward in the plan.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: nigel on July 30, 2019, 04:39:08 PM
Wolves have just finished in th etop half on the top-flight for the first time in nearly 40 years, they need 4-5 years to show it's not a flash in the pan. We were regularly top half of the league for 20 years and are coming back from a 7-8 year 'blip' of relegation battles and lower league football. The circumstances are very different and we're not taling about qualifying for the champions league this year, just pointing out that we should be considering our options for a new ground given 1 stand is woefully out of date, another is barely fit for purpose and the final 2, whilst functional, have a number of problems that would be hard to resolve.

7-8 years is more than a 'blip'! We've also not won a trophy for 23 years and never played in the Champions League.

I'm not sure why, just because we've finally been promoted back to where we all agree we belong, we feel that Villa Park is suddenly a shithole that needs erasing from memory so we can go somewhere flash.

I'm as positive about our potential future as the next person, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. If it was your money, would you speculate in this way? Just because we have wealthy owners doesn't mean we should get all entitled and demand they spend more.

If it was my money, I’d be getting on with it, because I’d be buying some of the world’s best players and I know for a fact that if we had a team like Man City or Liverpool we’d need a bigger ground than either of them has got at the minute. Only the owners (and people close to them) know the extent of their ambition, but if it’s to constantly compete for trophies and play in the Champions League they should build the new ground or massively increase capacity and improve facilities at Villa Park.

Our owners, without doubt, have the money to, basically,  do what they want.
It wouldn't surprise me if they haven't already looked into options.
As you say, Percy, we'll be looking at better players.
We build a bigger, modern, stadium and the support will follow.
Or redevelop the North and Witton Lane stands. I wouldn't be adverse to the pair being joined as a wrap around, leaving the Holte and Trinity as free standing
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 30, 2019, 04:47:44 PM
I don't think anyone is playing down the potential of the club, and if they have it's not 'determined'.

It's 23 years since we won anything. That's not a blip. However, I agree that our new owners seem prepared to have a go and also seem, on the evidence so far, to have the ability where Lerner et al didn't.

With regard to Risso's point about a bigger ground for revenue etc, if we sold another 20,000 season tickets to meet demand at £1000 each (more than £50 per match) it would still only be another £20m in the bank. Of course there would be other matchday pint and food sales on top but in the grand scheme of things it's hardly the big money spinner. That comes from sponsorship, replica shirts etc which would happen regardless if we were doing well.

Do we need to upgrade facilities? Yes of course.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: danno on July 30, 2019, 05:07:01 PM

With regard to Risso's point about a bigger ground for revenue etc, if we sold another 20,000 season tickets to meet demand at £1000 each (more than £50 per match) it would still only be another £20m in the bank. Of course there would be other matchday pint and food sales on top but in the grand scheme of things it's hardly the big money spinner. That comes from sponsorship, replica shirts etc which would happen regardless if we were doing well.

Do we need to upgrade facilities? Yes of course.

I'm guessing Risso probably meant the extra income generated from corporate boxes and stuff.  You're right, theres no way Everton Arsenal Tottenham etc would countenance building new stadiums if it was just going to generate an extra £20 million.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on July 30, 2019, 05:08:26 PM
 8)
Wolves have just finished in th etop half on the top-flight for the first time in nearly 40 years, they need 4-5 years to show it's not a flash in the pan. We were regularly top half of the league for 20 years and are coming back from a 7-8 year 'blip' of relegation battles and lower league football. The circumstances are very different and we're not taling about qualifying for the champions league this year, just pointing out that we should be considering our options for a new ground given 1 stand is woefully out of date, another is barely fit for purpose and the final 2, whilst functional, have a number of problems that would be hard to resolve.

7-8 years is more than a 'blip'! We've also not won a trophy for 23 years and never played in the Champions League.

I'm not sure why, just because we've finally been promoted back to where we all agree we belong, we feel that Villa Park is suddenly a shithole that needs erasing from memory so we can go somewhere flash.

I'm as positive about our potential future as the next person, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. If it was your money, would you speculate in this way? Just because we have wealthy owners doesn't mean we should get all entitled and demand they spend more.

If it was my money, I’d be getting on with it, because I’d be buying some of the world’s best players and I know for a fact that if we had a team like Man City or Liverpool we’d need a bigger ground than either of them has got at the minute. Only the owners (and people close to them) know the extent of their ambition, but if it’s to constantly compete for trophies and play in the Champions League they should build the new ground or massively increase capacity and improve facilities at Villa Park.

Our owners, without doubt, have the money to, basically,  do what they want.
It wouldn't surprise me if they haven't already looked into options.
As you say, Percy, we'll be looking at better players.
We build a bigger, modern, stadium and the support will follow.
Or redevelop the North and Witton Lane stands. I wouldn't be adverse to the pair being joined as a wrap around, leaving the Holte and Trinity as free standing
If you were going to wrap around a new enlarged Doug Ellis stand to join up with a new north stand surely you would have to wrap it around to conjoin with the Trinity Rd and all at the same height as the Trinity to form a horseshoe leaving the Holte free standing. The Holte could bridge the road in the same way as the Trinity. This would make the whole ground symmetrical and rid us of the uneven sightlines leftover from the previous pennypincher. I'd estimate a capacity of around 55,000. I tried to buy tickets for my son for the Bournemouth game today but it's sold out. Apparently thousands of claret members missed out after ST holders took up the option to buy extras. Everton game selling out fast. There is an unprecedented seed change going on at the Villa right now. I believe this is absolutely the right time to be speculating about our options regarding the stadium.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on July 30, 2019, 05:36:12 PM
Don’t know how thousands of claret members missed out as their sales window was before ST holders were able to buy extra tickets.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 30, 2019, 06:09:33 PM
I don't think anyone is playing down the potential of the club, and if they have it's not 'determined'.

It's 23 years since we won anything. That's not a blip. However, I agree that our new owners seem prepared to have a go and also seem, on the evidence so far, to have the ability where Lerner et al didn't.

With regard to Risso's point about a bigger ground for revenue etc, if we sold another 20,000 season tickets to meet demand at £1000 each (more than £50 per match) it would still only be another £20m in the bank. Of course there would be other matchday pint and food sales on top but in the grand scheme of things it's hardly the big money spinner. That comes from sponsorship, replica shirts etc which would happen regardless if we were doing well.

Do we need to upgrade facilities? Yes of course.

Sorry, You claimed people were calling Villa park a shithole so I figured exaggeration was just what we were doing.

I also never called 23 years without a trophy a blip, I said 7-8 years without being top half of the top-flight is a blip (over our history this is pretty obvious or are you arguing that we don't belong in the top half of the league, if the latter I'd like something a bit more considered than no trophies for a while and 3 seasons in the championship).

More importantly though, we all know why it happened and what we're talking about here is raising the commercial income to mitigate against it going forward. No one (again) has claimed that improving the ground will solve that issue entirely on it's own but it is a very important part of the process. You admit that there's potentially £20m in ticket sales (I'd at least double that for corporate and matchday revenue increases) and you admit that the facilities need to be improved so I'm not really clear what your argument is now, are you just being contrary or are you worried what other fans may think if they come on here?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on July 30, 2019, 06:09:45 PM
We build a bigger, modern, stadium and the support will follow.

There's literally zero evidence to support this.

Back in the 1920s Villa Park had a capacity of 80,000 but since then we've averaged more than 40,000 six times.  Five of those being before 1950!

When we were pushing for a Champions League place under MON our attendances fell!

I just don't buy this idea that if we suddenly spunk hundreds of millions of pounds on a new stadium or four new stands we'd suddenly be pulling in 80,000 every week and the investment would pay for itself.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: CT Villan on July 30, 2019, 06:11:57 PM
From a purely romantic and nostalgic perspective I am not in favour of moving away from VP. We have so much history here, so many glorious times (and a few less so) and our ground is unique. Players and away fans alike recognise the history, the tradition and the aura of Villa Park and this is not easily recreated somewhere else - there would be no ghosts of long-passed Holte End heroes in a concrete bowl. I appreciate the need for 21st century amenities but would hope there was a way to develop what we have in keeping with Leitch's majestic designs whilst balancing future commercial needs.

Maybe I'm just getting old.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on July 30, 2019, 06:15:27 PM
Don’t know how thousands of claret members missed out as their sales window was before ST holders were able to buy extra tickets.
I must've misheard or misunderstood the girl. I tried to buy tickets for the Bournemouth match using claret membership and she said itt was sold out and many had missed out. She said there are 7000 members. My mistake.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: garyshawsknee on July 30, 2019, 06:19:25 PM
As others have said, I don't think we should move from Villa Park, ever. It's so iconic, location is unique, a lot of other supporters admire it, it does need to be modernised in areas and made bigger, but history shows that we wouldn't really need anything much bigger than 50+.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: nigel on July 30, 2019, 06:39:25 PM
8)
Wolves have just finished in th etop half on the top-flight for the first time in nearly 40 years, they need 4-5 years to show it's not a flash in the pan. We were regularly top half of the league for 20 years and are coming back from a 7-8 year 'blip' of relegation battles and lower league football. The circumstances are very different and we're not taling about qualifying for the champions league this year, just pointing out that we should be considering our options for a new ground given 1 stand is woefully out of date, another is barely fit for purpose and the final 2, whilst functional, have a number of problems that would be hard to resolve.

7-8 years is more than a 'blip'! We've also not won a trophy for 23 years and never played in the Champions League.

I'm not sure why, just because we've finally been promoted back to where we all agree we belong, we feel that Villa Park is suddenly a shithole that needs erasing from memory so we can go somewhere flash.

I'm as positive about our potential future as the next person, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. If it was your money, would you speculate in this way? Just because we have wealthy owners doesn't mean we should get all entitled and demand they spend more.

If it was my money, I’d be getting on with it, because I’d be buying some of the world’s best players and I know for a fact that if we had a team like Man City or Liverpool we’d need a bigger ground than either of them has got at the minute. Only the owners (and people close to them) know the extent of their ambition, but if it’s to constantly compete for trophies and play in the Champions League they should build the new ground or massively increase capacity and improve facilities at Villa Park.

Our owners, without doubt, have the money to, basically,  do what they want.
It wouldn't surprise me if they haven't already looked into options.
As you say, Percy, we'll be looking at better players.
We build a bigger, modern, stadium and the support will follow.
Or redevelop the North and Witton Lane stands. I wouldn't be adverse to the pair being joined as a wrap around, leaving the Holte and Trinity as free standing
If you were going to wrap around a new enlarged Doug Ellis stand to join up with a new north stand surely you would have to wrap it around to conjoin with the Trinity Rd and all at the same height as the Trinity to form a horseshoe leaving the Holte free standing. The Holte could bridge the road in the same way as the Trinity. This would make the whole ground symmetrical and rid us of the uneven sightlines leftover from the previous pennypincher. I'd estimate a capacity of around 55,000. I tried to buy tickets for my son for the Bournemouth game today but it's sold out. Apparently thousands of claret members missed out after ST holders took up the option to buy extras. Everton game selling out fast. There is an unprecedented seed change going on at the Villa right now. I believe this is absolutely the right time to be speculating about our options regarding the stadium.
You could join the 3 stands, I suppose it depends on how high you want the capacity.
The Holte and Trinity is around 26000, so it would certainly be possible for a new North and Witton wrap to match that
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 30, 2019, 07:09:23 PM


Sorry, You claimed people were calling Villa park a shithole so I figured exaggeration was just what we were doing.

I also never called 23 years without a trophy a blip, I said 7-8 years without being top half of the top-flight is a blip (over our history this is pretty obvious or are you arguing that we don't belong in the top half of the league, if the latter I'd like something a bit more considered than no trophies for a while and 3 seasons in the championship).

More importantly though, we all know why it happened and what we're talking about here is raising the commercial income to mitigate against it going forward. No one (again) has claimed that improving the ground will solve that issue entirely on it's own but it is a very important part of the process. You admit that there's potentially £20m in ticket sales (I'd at least double that for corporate and matchday revenue increases) and you admit that the facilities need to be improved so I'm not really clear what your argument is now, are you just being contrary or are you worried what other fans may think if they come on here?

You're funny.

I know you didn't say 23 years. I'm saying it. I thought you'd be able to extrapolate that just finishing top half is pretty much a shit proposition for building a billion pound stadium. The fans won't continue to come in the numbers suggested if we're only aiming for top half.

We need to win something.

I haven't 'admitted' £20m, I've suggested it as a possible number.

I don't think there is a valid argument to build a new stadium based on what we've seen so far and I'd suggest the owners probably think the same. Xia talked about big plans, but got ahead of himself. I'd suggest you're doing the same.

I don't 'admit' the facilities need improving I've stated it. The North Stand is old now and not fit for purpose (despite having a brilliant view) and the Witton is tired and cramped. But it doesn't stop people coming.

The issue about service is just that, service. With the right level and type of staffing, the offer would be significantly better, in all areas of the ground.

There's a feel-good factor right now, and hope. I believe we'll be successful, but we can't bank on it. This season is about consolidating our position in the top division again and pushing to finish as high as we can.

We've probably got the biggest untapped potential of any club in the land. Our owners seem to be clear but let's face it, those clubs who have gambled on bigger grounds have done so on the back of sustained good performance. Everton is the exception and Goodison Park is so tired it's untrue. They've dithered for 20 years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 30, 2019, 07:27:58 PM
Let's look at Man City for a second.  They moved into the new stadium in 03/04

01/02 Won Championship. Average attendance 33,061
02/03  Finished 9th. Average attendance 34,565
03/04  Finished 16th. Average attendance 46,834
04/05 Finished 8th. Average attendance 45,192
05/06 Finished 15th. Average attendance 42,856

The Abu Dhabi owners didn't show up until 2008, and City were largely dreadful until then, but they found a load of new supporters from somewhere.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 30, 2019, 07:30:18 PM
Couldn't agree more with Drummond really. This time last year we had the tax man knocking on our door demanding payment. A season later, we get up through the play offs and we've invested heavily, we have very wealthy owners which is fantastic but that's it for now and that's how it should be. All this talk of 'I'd rather us play in front of 60,000 fans' and 'thousands are being denied a ticket' makes me cringe and also laugh. We need to get to a stage where 60k people would want to turn up, not just for the games against Man Utd and Arsenal, but every week. For that to happen, we need a bit of success first.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 30, 2019, 07:39:19 PM
Why build the North Stand when our attendances were in the 20s?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 30, 2019, 07:40:32 PM
Yeah, West Ham have had loads of success.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: four fornicholl on July 30, 2019, 07:41:50 PM
As others have said, I don't think we should move from Villa Park, ever. It's so iconic, location is unique, a lot of other supporters admire it, it does need to be modernised in areas and made bigger, but history shows that we wouldn't really need anything much bigger than 50+.
The owners may however want 60-70k, which if we emulate Spurs, Man City should be easily possible.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: purpletrousers on July 30, 2019, 07:42:29 PM
Couldn't agree more with Drummond really. This time last year we had the tax man knocking on our door demanding payment. A season later, we get up through the play offs and we've invested heavily, we have very wealthy owners which is fantastic but that's it for now and that's how it should be. All this talk of 'I'd rather us play in front of 60,000 fans' and 'thousands are being denied a ticket' makes me cringe and also laugh. We need to get to a stage where 60k people would want to turn up, not just for the games against Man Utd and Arsenal, but every week. For that to happen, we need a bit of success first.
Agreed. I also trust our owners have will scoped out possibilities/made plans that can be enacted when the time is right. So both/and not either/or, innit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on July 30, 2019, 07:42:45 PM
We've just had some success Clampy.  We won a play off final, and got to another play off final the year before that?  How is success measured these days? We last won a proper trophy in 1996 yet we've had really good seasons inbetween time.  Perhaps this is a different debate?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on July 30, 2019, 07:45:09 PM
I have no problem with increasing the capacity by rebuilding the North stand area

but we jumped from that which has been talked about for ages to a multi multi million pound purpose built state if the art bespoke stadium holding 60,000 plus in the middle of Birmingham central, with shops, restaurants, hotels and leisure activities on the side

it’s a bit of a jump

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 30, 2019, 07:46:32 PM
I'm glad we have people more ambitious than Clampy running the club.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 30, 2019, 07:47:10 PM
Why build the North Stand when our attendances were in the 20s?

We didn't. We we averaging almost 40,000 and it replaced an open terrace untouched for eighty years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 30, 2019, 07:49:37 PM
We've just had some success Clampy.  We won a play off final, and got to another play off final the year before that?  How is success measured these days? We last won a proper trophy in 1996 yet we've had really good seasons inbetween time.  Perhaps this is a different debate?


8 Wembley appearances since then, isn't it? Forays into Europe. Top 6 finishes aplenty. Not too shabby, that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 30, 2019, 07:50:01 PM
I'm glad we have people more ambitious than Clampy running the club.

So do I.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 30, 2019, 07:52:46 PM
We've just had some success Clampy.  We won a play off final, and got to another play off final the year before that?  How is success measured these days? We last won a proper trophy in 1996 yet we've had really good seasons inbetween time.  Perhaps this is a different debate?

We beat Derby in a play off final at the second time of asking to get out of a league we shouldn't have been in. Now, we have to establish ourselves up in the top flight all over again. A new ground in the meantime can wait.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 30, 2019, 08:03:08 PM
Why build the North Stand when our attendances were in the 20s?

We didn't. We we averaging almost 40,000 and it replaced an open terrace untouched for eighty years.


Briefly before it opened, maybe one season. Otherwise, 3rd division promotion season aside, we'd been a long time in the attendance doldrums.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 30, 2019, 08:08:48 PM
Why build the North Stand when our attendances were in the 20s?

We didn't. We we averaging almost 40,000 and it replaced an open terrace untouched for eighty years.


Briefly before it opened, maybe one season. Otherwise, 3rd division promotion season aside, we'd been a long time in the attendance doldrums.

We'd had an average of getting on for forty thousand for over two seasons. Our crowds were holding up, the terrace it replaced was antiquated and most importantly, we had the money.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 30, 2019, 08:10:12 PM
Money into the team first, fill Villa every week for a couple of seasons with a revamp of the North Stand. I never want to leave Villa Park. If we could make it 55,000 plus excellent
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 30, 2019, 08:10:30 PM
Couldn't agree more with Drummond really. This time last year we had the tax man knocking on our door demanding payment. A season later, we get up through the play offs and we've invested heavily, we have very wealthy owners which is fantastic but that's it for now and that's how it should be. All this talk of 'I'd rather us play in front of 60,000 fans' and 'thousands are being denied a ticket' makes me cringe and also laugh. We need to get to a stage where 60k people would want to turn up, not just for the games against Man Utd and Arsenal, but every week. For that to happen, we need a bit of success first.

It takes years to get to the stage of having a new stadium.  Nobody is suggesting moving out of Villa Park after one good season.  But it'll be no good, if in 5 years time when we're playing in the Champions League regularly that we decide we need one then, because then you'd need to add on another 5 years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: nigel on July 30, 2019, 08:21:37 PM
Money into the team first, fill Villa every week for a couple of seasons with a revamp of the North Stand. I never want to leave Villa Park. If we could make it 55,000 plus excellent

That's probably what will happen.
I mentioned earlier that it wouldn't surprise me if the owners have everything mapped out already. Then in a couple of seasons, if attendances are good, thinge will start.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FatSam on July 30, 2019, 08:26:09 PM
The North Stand is old now and not fit for purpose (despite having a brilliant view) and the Witton is tired and cramped. But it doesn't stop people coming.

How do you know that it doesn’t? Perhaps more people would come if it wasn’t tired and cramped, and surely the intention is to attract more fans?

The issue about service is just that, service. With the right level and type of staffing, the offer would be significantly better, in all areas of the ground.

I’m not convinced that this is simply a Human Resources problem. There are some very obvious physical constraints that will continue to mean that not everyone who wants a half time pint will be able to get one for example. That is lost revenue for the club, even before you start to encourage people to make a day of it like Tottenham are now doing.

There's a feel-good factor right now, and hope. I believe we'll be successful, but we can't bank on it. This season is about consolidating our position in the top division again and pushing to finish as high as we can.

Agreed. My point would be that we should use this time to start planning for the possibility that we continue on an upwards trajectory, so that strategies can be implemented if this proves to be the case.

Our owners seem to be clear but let's face it, those clubs who have gambled on bigger grounds have done so on the back of sustained good performance. Everton is the exception and Goodison Park is so tired it's untrue. They've dithered for 20 years.

The FCG minutes suggest that Purslow and the owners are not likely to rush into anything, and remain resolutely circumspect. I wouldn’t want them to be anything else - this is a 145 year old institution. Everton have probably held themselves back if anything though, and have missed the opportunity to be more competitive. West Ham on the other hand haven’t gambled on a bigger ground on the back of sustained good performance, but then they haven’t actually had to gamble very much.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 30, 2019, 08:38:45 PM
I have no problem with increasing the capacity by rebuilding the North stand area

but we jumped from that which has been talked about for ages to a multi multi million pound purpose built state if the art bespoke stadium holding 60,000 plus in the middle of Birmingham central, with shops, restaurants, hotels and leisure activities on the side

it’s a bit of a jump



How much would you plan to spend on that? What would you do about the clear problems with the DE stand, ignore them for now?

If we do that and spend £100m on the north stand then it becomes clear that the council/local residents aren't going to let us use any more space so we have to either stick with what we have or move how long do we leave it before moving elsewhere?

This is the why the 'jump' was considered, what are the plans for the club in 10 years time, if it's to be making up the numbers in mid-table in the premier league and with the odd cup run or push for the Europa league then fine, lets just do the single stand, get capacity up to about 45-46k and carry on we have for years. If we plan to be a bit more than that then it's important to have these sort of discussions.

Risso mentions 5 years to do the work, I reckon it's more like 6-8 so we're probably already looking at 2025 at the earliest and we wouldn't be starting anything for at least another year. I want the club to be run professionally, and that includes having long-term contingency planning in place depending on a number of potential outcomes, the best couple of those see us needing a 60k stadium so lets consider it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 30, 2019, 08:39:26 PM
Couldn't agree more with Drummond really. This time last year we had the tax man knocking on our door demanding payment. A season later, we get up through the play offs and we've invested heavily, we have very wealthy owners which is fantastic but that's it for now and that's how it should be. All this talk of 'I'd rather us play in front of 60,000 fans' and 'thousands are being denied a ticket' makes me cringe and also laugh. We need to get to a stage where 60k people would want to turn up, not just for the games against Man Utd and Arsenal, but every week. For that to happen, we need a bit of success first.

It takes years to get to the stage of having a new stadium.  Nobody is suggesting moving out of Villa Park after one good season.  But it'll be no good, if in 5 years time when we're playing in the Champions League regularly that we decide we need one then, because then you'd need to add on another 5 years.

Agreed. We need to plan ahead and not stand still because "today" it isn't or might not be entirely justified. And I'm all for Villa Park being it if we can make it work, but to me that's a massive amount of changes to be done and frankly I don't want us playing for a season or two somewhere else. That's why I would rather over the next year evaluate everything and find a spot, if one exists, not too far away and build the next Villa Park. And people love new and shiny and we will attract investment and new fans. it's been proven by other clubs in the PL that attendances go up with a new stadium. The challenge as all clubs who have built a new ground is to remain competitive while financing the new location. But as you say, this isn't something that will happen next season. It's a 5 year project and I would rather we stayed in Villa Park until the very last minute and then move.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 30, 2019, 08:51:20 PM
Yeah, West Ham have had loads of success.

How much did they pay for their stadium?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 30, 2019, 08:56:07 PM
Yeah, West Ham have had loads of success.

How much did they pay for their stadium?

If our new owners can afford it, then the cost is largely irrelevant.  The Sawiris family is apparently worth about £40bn, I'm really starting to believe these guys are the real deal and aren't going to be happy until we're one of the biggest clubs in Europe.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 30, 2019, 09:00:40 PM
Didnt the family money come from concrete? He could give us mates rates...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 30, 2019, 09:04:08 PM
Yeah, West Ham have had loads of success.

How much did they pay for their stadium?

What's that got to do with anything? Clampy suggested that we could only fill a larger stadium (be that an expanded Villa Park or a new ground) if we had continued success. I was refuting the suggestion.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 30, 2019, 09:07:57 PM
Considering no work at major work at VP would start for a couple of years and no move would happen for longer than that I don't get why so many are against the idea of the club possibly looking into it. Anyone would think we're knocking down VP tomorrow based on one good summer of ST sales.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 30, 2019, 09:20:25 PM
Considering no work at major work at VP would start for a couple of years and no move would happen for longer than that I don't get why so many are against the idea of the club possibly looking into it. Anyone would think we're knocking down VP tomorrow based on one good summer of ST sales.

If Villa Park is being used for the commonwealth games then I doubt anything will happen before then and the season will have started by the time it's done so you'd probably not do anything until 2023. What I'd like is that all the design, planning, etc is done before that point so work can start as soon as our last home game is done. I'd also want a proper fans consultation which adds 6-12months to the process.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 30, 2019, 09:22:11 PM
Yeah, West Ham have had loads of success.

How much did they pay for their stadium?

What's that got to do with anything? Clampy suggested that we could only fill a larger stadium (be that an expanded Villa Park or a new ground) if we had continued success. I was refuting the suggestion.

Also, when did Everton last win anything? They're still planning a new ground.

Also worth pointing out (earlier posts) that improving facilities is not just serving people beer quicker - it is having the space and set up to sell a higher quality corporate product.

We are starting to look like we are falling behind our peers. Given the time it takes to do stuff like upgrade or rebuild stadiums we have got to be looking at it now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 30, 2019, 09:30:05 PM
Yeah, West Ham have had loads of success.

How much did they pay for their stadium?

What's that got to do with anything? Clampy suggested that we could only fill a larger stadium (be that an expanded Villa Park or a new ground) if we had continued success. I was refuting the suggestion.

Also as I showed earlier, Man City filled their new ground long before the new owners showed up, and they've got a lot more in the way of local competition, and hadn't won anything since Jesus was a lad.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 30, 2019, 09:32:46 PM
Yeah, West Ham have had loads of success.

Marginally more than what they were getting at Upton Park it seems.....

"West Ham: Newham council says the average attendance at West Ham was 42,779 based on the 12 games it attended - which is 12,530 fans fewer than the club's season average figure of 55,309."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45158878

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 30, 2019, 09:42:51 PM
Yeah, West Ham have had loads of success.

Marginally more than what they were getting at Upton Park it seems.....

"West Ham: Newham council says the average attendance at West Ham was 42,779 based on the 12 games it attended - which is 12,530 fans fewer than the club's season average figure of 55,309."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45158878



Isn't that still about 7-8000 more than their old capacity? So even a shitty club like West Ham saw a 15-20% increase in attendance (and a 50% increase in tickets sales) by moving to a new stadium despite having absolutely no success to talk of for years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 30, 2019, 09:48:47 PM
We're getting blasted out of the water on this by a side that's never won the league.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 30, 2019, 09:55:59 PM
Yeah, West Ham have had loads of success.

Marginally more than what they were getting at Upton Park it seems.....

"West Ham: Newham council says the average attendance at West Ham was 42,779 based on the 12 games it attended - which is 12,530 fans fewer than the club's season average figure of 55,309."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45158878



Quoting tickets sold rather than physical bums on seats is nothing new.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on July 30, 2019, 10:07:29 PM
Villa have something - a visual style to the ground (old Trinity Road/Holte End) that few if any clubs can match. Follow that template and, wherever the ground is, it'll be Villa Park and it'll be a success. Live up to playing at 'the stately home of football' and we good rake in some serious money.

I'd imagine there'll be contingency plans on top of contingency plans, and as has been said before regardless of what happens we ain't building a new stand/ground overnight. Probably makes sense to start looking at options sooner rather than later.

Personally I'm a leaver if it's to a city centre site. I think we could genuinely mop up of we were walking distance from HS2/New Street and built an impressive enough ground. Thinking a horseshoe of red brick stands in a kind of half octogen* and a massive free standing "New Holte End" stand with rail seating akin to the Sudtribune in Dortmund. But with a different, modern design in contrast to the other stands. With two proper floodlights either side, one "A" and one "V".

* You know how the old Trinity Road stand was flat and then angled in at the ends?  Sort of carrying on that so each stand links up at 45 degrees the other.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 30, 2019, 10:15:31 PM
Yeah, West Ham have had loads of success.

Marginally more than what they were getting at Upton Park it seems.....

"West Ham: Newham council says the average attendance at West Ham was 42,779 based on the 12 games it attended - which is 12,530 fans fewer than the club's season average figure of 55,309."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45158878



Isn't that still about 7-8000 more than their old capacity? So even a shitty club like West Ham saw a 15-20% increase in attendance (and a 50% increase in tickets sales) by moving to a new stadium despite having absolutely no success to talk of for years.

Well it's London so always more tourists floating around fancying taking in a game and of course after 2012 Olympic stadium is a world wide known stadium.

There is always a novelty factor with the new grounds and then interest starts to drop off unless you're winning the league like Man. City are most years.

Arsenal barely get over 50k for most games they play against non top 6 now and this is club with more worldwide fans than West Ham.

I was all for expanding the ground around 2008. Regular top 6 and european football and while the crowds did drop slightly they were still close to 40k than 35k over the season. Then look what happened. Regular relegation fights and our crowds predictably dropping to low 30s.

There's a proper feelgood factor around atm and understandbly so. However I very much doubt in two years time games will be struggling to make general sale if we're just about making the top half. Think we'd also need to sign some big  name players from europe to keep the fanbase engaged as Man. City have done over last ten years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 30, 2019, 10:25:46 PM
Yeah, West Ham have had loads of success.

Marginally more than what they were getting at Upton Park it seems.....

"West Ham: Newham council says the average attendance at West Ham was 42,779 based on the 12 games it attended - which is 12,530 fans fewer than the club's season average figure of 55,309."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45158878



Quoting tickets sold rather than physical bums on seats is nothing new.

Of course, we've done it in previous seasons.

Just disputing the narrative that 55k are rammed into West Ham every week and there's thousands more queuing round the block to watch Jack Wilshere do his knee ten minutes into the season. Reality at least according to that report is they're playing infront of 10k empty seats for over half their league fixtures.

On Man. City they've certainly had terrific support down the years. Didn't they have something crazy like 30k average when they were in division 2 in the late 90s?

Pretty sure their support was starting to decline a bit before the takeover. Remember talking to someone who went up to watch us get a rare win there. Might've been the game where Barton skied a penalty and he was saying there was row on row of empty blue seats and basically the ground was too big for Man. City.

I say leave VP as it is for next two years. If we're getting 40k + end of 2021 season and aren't far off qualifying for europe then decisions can be made then.

It would've been unthinkable in May 2010 to believe we'd be relegated within six years but it happened and could've easily in the three years before.

I'd rather have a stable base as competitive premier league club than just do it on the buzz of a promotion campaign.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 30, 2019, 10:32:23 PM
VP will be left as it is for 2 years whatever we do. What the club should be doing is getting things in place so that when it is time to make a decision they already have plans in place.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 30, 2019, 10:58:49 PM
Yeah, West Ham have had loads of success.

Marginally more than what they were getting at Upton Park it seems.....

"West Ham: Newham council says the average attendance at West Ham was 42,779 based on the 12 games it attended - which is 12,530 fans fewer than the club's season average figure of 55,309."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45158878



Quoting tickets sold rather than physical bums on seats is nothing new.

Of course, we've done it in previous seasons.

Just disputing the narrative that 55k are rammed into West Ham every week and there's thousands more queuing round the block to watch Jack Wilshere do his knee ten minutes into the season. Reality at least according to that report is they're playing infront of 10k empty seats for over half their league fixtures.

On Man. City they've certainly had terrific support down the years. Didn't they have something crazy like 30k average when they were in division 2 in the late 90s?

Pretty sure their support was starting to decline a bit before the takeover. Remember talking to someone who went up to watch us get a rare win there. Might've been the game where Barton skied a penalty and he was saying there was row on row of empty blue seats and basically the ground was too big for Man. City.

I say leave VP as it is for next two years. If we're getting 40k + end of 2021 season and aren't far off qualifying for europe then decisions can be made then.

It would've been unthinkable in May 2010 to believe we'd be relegated within six years but it happened and could've easily in the three years before.

I'd rather have a stable base as competitive premier league club than just do it on the buzz of a promotion campaign.

Who cares if 8,000 of the people who buy tickets for their matches don't turn up, they are still shifting that many tickets, and therefore picking up the money for them - clubs have always quoted tickets sold.

Again, none of this is about us having got promoted and having a bit of a buzz, look around at what our peers are doing - we are not moving with the times, we are wedded to a ground which offers poor facilities and limited commercial income.

One of the repeated failings of this club is that we always seem to realise things too late, to fail to make the most of our potential. We've had flat commercial income during a 5-6 year period in our last years in the top flight, a period where the game became stupidly awash with money.

If we decide to look at a new ground now, it will be at least five years before we actually move anywhere. Look how long it took Spurs, and look how long it is currently taking Everton.

And again, the thing people are missing - it is absolutely not just about having more seats, it's about having a facility which is up to scratch for the modern game and through which we can maximise our income.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 30, 2019, 11:25:37 PM
I say leave VP as it is for next two years. If we're getting 40k + end of 2021 season and aren't far off qualifying for europe then decisions can be made then.

Not going to quote everything but this is exactly what 4-5 are saying and it seems to be being missed. If we get to that point with a proper plan of what we want to do, based on how those 2 seasons have gone then we're ready to implement it. If we sit on our hands and do fuck all whilst we wait to see if there's a demand then you have 2 more years of limbo before we can start work.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 30, 2019, 11:52:58 PM
Why build the North Stand when our attendances were in the 20s?

We didn't. We we averaging almost 40,000 and it replaced an open terrace untouched for eighty years.


Briefly before it opened, maybe one season. Otherwise, 3rd division promotion season aside, we'd been a long time in the attendance doldrums.

We'd had an average of getting on for forty thousand for over two seasons. Our crowds were holding up, the terrace it replaced was antiquated and most importantly, we had the money.


I think we're not arguing with each other here. My point was a dig at those seemingly insistent on us selling out every game for five years before thinking about doing something, as opposed to seizing the moment of alignment of momentum, progressive manager and goddam exciting side to jolt Aston Villa into action, like we did with 74-77.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on July 30, 2019, 11:55:00 PM
VP will be left as it is for 2 years whatever we do. What the club should be doing is getting things in place so that when it is time to make a decision they already have plans in place.

I have absolutely no doubt that's exactly what the club have done or are doing.  We had planning permission in place for years to redevelop the North Stand - it may still be in place - but we never actually did anything with it so planning ahead for this kind of thing is fairly standard.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 30, 2019, 11:57:13 PM
The North Stand was more down to having to do something about part of the ground that was an embarrassment and finally having the funds available - after all, it dropped the ground capacity by about seven thousand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 31, 2019, 12:16:30 AM
The North Stand was more down to having to do something about part of the ground that was an embarrassment and finally having the funds available - after all, it dropped the ground capacity by about seven thousand.

Up until the hyphen, isn't that also where we're at now?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 31, 2019, 12:34:17 AM
There isn't a part of the current ground that's as bad as the old Witton End was. Some are a bit shabby but you'll never catch your death in them.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: tony scott on July 31, 2019, 02:34:37 AM
Now Dave standing on that hill, was a thing of wonder.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hillbilly on July 31, 2019, 06:05:45 AM
About the London clubs, the population of London has grown by 2 million in 20 years. Birmingham has stood still.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 31, 2019, 09:16:34 AM
does anyone have a handle on how much these two guys have put into the club since last July? Whatever the figure it's an amazing commitment.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on July 31, 2019, 09:21:36 AM
About the London clubs, the population of London has grown by 2 million in 20 years. Birmingham has stood still.
Birminghams population is growing faster than any city outside London. It has the youngest demographic population in Europe. The Birmingham metropolitan area now stands at 3.7 million and growing. The numbers are there for us to attract bigger crowds. Its going to come down to success on the pitch and appealing to the populous to follow their local club. Other traditionally smaller clubs have managed it. Theres no reason why we can't look at attracting crowds much larger than we currently do.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on July 31, 2019, 09:29:13 AM
Birminghams population is growing faster than any city outside London. It has the youngest demographic population in Europe. The Birmingham metropolitan area now stands at 3.7 million and growing. The numbers are there for us to attract bigger crowds. Its going to come down to success on the pitch and appealing to the populous to follow their local club. Other traditionally smaller clubs have managed it. Theres no reason why we can't look at attracting crowds much larger than we currently do.
Which is why action will get taken in a couple of seasons' time, when we've consolidated on the pitch, have a vibrant academy and a global status that currently evades us.
I was just speaking with an Egyptian client who said that whilst Villa have more connection to his country, everyone stops on a Saturday to watch Mo Salah's Liverpool. The point is: we need to get beyond next season before really pushing the expansion plans out.
Re location: I'd advocate exploring all of the possible options for the current site before contemplating a location-move. But that is for far better-qualified people than me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on July 31, 2019, 09:31:12 AM
There isn't a part of the current ground that's as bad as the old Witton End was. Some are a bit shabby but you'll never catch your death in them.

I just loved the old Witton End.  Many a drenching I got down there, I used to get upset in latter years when I had to relocate.  Who can forget floating on spilled tea and Bovril in the only refreshment outlet down there?  The steam that used to emanate from there in winter.  The buildings around there tied-in with the original Victorian plan IIRC. I remember when the North Stand was built, for a short while you could still stand at the front.

I think my love of the Witton goes right back to the days when I was a five-year-old and had more interest in digging in the mud and shale at the top than the football.  Who can ever forget the suicidal charges over the top and down the bank at the end of the game to try and beat the rush?  Happy days, I still see them now in my mind's eye.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Border villan on July 31, 2019, 09:36:53 AM
There isn't a part of the current ground that's as bad as the old Witton End was. Some are a bit shabby but you'll never catch your death in them.

I just loved the old Witton End.  Many a drenching I got down there, I used to get upset in latter years when I had to relocate.  Who can forget floating on spilled tea and Bovril in the only refreshment outlet down there?  The steam that used to emanate from there in winter.  The buildings around there tied-in with the original Victorian plan IIRC. I remember when the North Stand was built, for a short while you could still stand at the front.

I think my love of the Witton goes right back to the days when I was a five-year-old and had more interest in digging in the mud and shale at the top than the football.  Who can ever forget the suicidal charges over the top and down the bank at the end of the game to try and beat the rush?  Happy days, I still see them now in my mind's eye.
Some have said that a temporary move to Alexander Stadium would not be possible as many of the 40,000 seats are “open to the elements”. For those of us who have served their time as Witton Warriors on the mud bank this will hold no fear.
A winter afternoon on the old Holte End before it had a roof was also invigorating and character forming.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on July 31, 2019, 11:00:06 AM
There isn't a part of the current ground that's as bad as the old Witton End was. Some are a bit shabby but you'll never catch your death in them.

I just loved the old Witton End.  Many a drenching I got down there, I used to get upset in latter years when I had to relocate.  Who can forget floating on spilled tea and Bovril in the only refreshment outlet down there?  The steam that used to emanate from there in winter.  The buildings around there tied-in with the original Victorian plan IIRC. I remember when the North Stand was built, for a short while you could still stand at the front.

I think my love of the Witton goes right back to the days when I was a five-year-old and had more interest in digging in the mud and shale at the top than the football.  Who can ever forget the suicidal charges over the top and down the bank at the end of the game to try and beat the rush?  Happy days, I still see them now in my mind's eye.
Some great memories there. You mention being able to stand at the front of the Witton End still while the North stand was being built behind.The lower North is still the same original steps which sweep around to the Trinity. They just reprofiled the concrete. In effect the lower North is the last remaining structure of the "old ground"
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 31, 2019, 11:03:01 AM
There is a random wall between the Trinity and the North stand that looks Victorian - or at least the final remnant of the old Trinity.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 31, 2019, 11:13:38 AM
England's Number 1, England's, England's Number 1......
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on July 31, 2019, 12:12:41 PM
Yeah, West Ham have had loads of success.

How much did they pay for their stadium?

What's that got to do with anything? Clampy suggested that we could only fill a larger stadium (be that an expanded Villa Park or a new ground) if we had continued success. I was refuting the suggestion.

Also, when did Everton last win anything? They're still planning a new ground.

Also worth pointing out (earlier posts) that improving facilities is not just serving people beer quicker - it is having the space and set up to sell a higher quality corporate product.

We are starting to look like we are falling behind our peers. Given the time it takes to do stuff like upgrade or rebuild stadiums we have got to be looking at it now.
everton are proposing to move from a pretty shit area of Liverpool (in terms of land costs) to a pretty much derelict area of Liverpool. So they will be basically getting their site for free. Great for Everton and wish them all the best, but you can’t compare that to Villa moving from an alright part of Birmingham (in terms of land costs) to the city centre to build a new stadium. There’s no comparison to be made.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 31, 2019, 12:15:25 PM
Well, you can. Because we have shitloads of cash so the cost is largely irrelevant.

And, obviously, you make your money back long-term, anyway.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on July 31, 2019, 12:45:08 PM
Well, you can. Because we have shitloads of cash so the cost is largely irrelevant.

And, obviously, you make your money back long-term, anyway.
we don’t have shitloads of cash, the current owners apparently do. There is a difference. They could pull out like Randy did. The cost may be irrelevant to us as fans because it’s not our money, but no way would the cost of rebuilding Villa Park, or building a new stadium in the centre ever be sustainably recovered.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on July 31, 2019, 12:48:33 PM
Well, you can. Because we have shitloads of cash so the cost is largely irrelevant.

And, obviously, you make your money back long-term, anyway.
we don’t have shitloads of cash, the current owners apparently do. There is a difference. They could pull out like Randy did. The cost may be irrelevant to us as fans because it’s not our money, but no way would the cost of rebuilding Villa Park, or building a new stadium in the centre ever be sustainably recovered.

I think his post was a little bit tongue-in-cheek.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on July 31, 2019, 01:09:01 PM
Fair enough Dave- 10pm here in Brisbane and had a couple of wines!

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 31, 2019, 01:23:56 PM
Well, you can. Because we have shitloads of cash so the cost is largely irrelevant.

And, obviously, you make your money back long-term, anyway.
we don’t have shitloads of cash, the current owners apparently do. There is a difference. They could pull out like Randy did. The cost may be irrelevant to us as fans because it’s not our money, but no way would the cost of rebuilding Villa Park, or building a new stadium in the centre ever be sustainably recovered.

We are the biggest club, in the second biggest city, with no other genuinely big clubs in an eighty-mile radius, in the richest football economy on earth. We’ll see if the owners really want to put us in our potential place in the pecking order (top ten clubs in the world), but there’s no doubt it can be done sustainably with the right investment, Part of that sustainability involves staying within FFP, which is where a new ground comes in.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on July 31, 2019, 01:25:01 PM
England's Number 1, England's, England's Number 1......

Heaton is not up for discussion here unless he knows a great architect with a penchant for the past.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on July 31, 2019, 01:48:42 PM
Well, you can. Because we have shitloads of cash so the cost is largely irrelevant.

And, obviously, you make your money back long-term, anyway.
we don’t have shitloads of cash, the current owners apparently do. There is a difference. They could pull out like Randy did. The cost may be irrelevant to us as fans because it’s not our money, but no way would the cost of rebuilding Villa Park, or building a new stadium in the centre ever be sustainably recovered.

We are the biggest club, in the second biggest city, with no other genuinely big clubs in an eighty-mile radius, in the richest football economy on earth. We’ll see if the owners really want to put us in our potential place in the pecking order (top ten clubs in the world), but there’s no doubt it can be done sustainably with the right investment, Part of that sustainability involves staying within FFP, which is where a new ground comes in.
yeah we will, or most likely we won’t. My bet on our next big build spend is a north stand re-build inside the next 5 years. What’s your call?
 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on July 31, 2019, 02:21:25 PM
Looks like the NS is getting a much needed facelift for the coming season.  Has to be a massive improvement, whatever they do!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 31, 2019, 02:26:30 PM
Looks like the NS is getting a much needed facelift for the coming season.  Has to be a massive improvement, whatever they do!

Nassef Sawiris is getting a much needed facelift? How rude.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 31, 2019, 02:27:27 PM
Well, you can. Because we have shitloads of cash so the cost is largely irrelevant.

And, obviously, you make your money back long-term, anyway.
we don’t have shitloads of cash, the current owners apparently do. There is a difference. They could pull out like Randy did. The cost may be irrelevant to us as fans because it’s not our money, but no way would the cost of rebuilding Villa Park, or building a new stadium in the centre ever be sustainably recovered.

We are the biggest club, in the second biggest city, with no other genuinely big clubs in an eighty-mile radius, in the richest football economy on earth. We’ll see if the owners really want to put us in our potential place in the pecking order (top ten clubs in the world), but there’s no doubt it can be done sustainably with the right investment, Part of that sustainability involves staying within FFP, which is where a new ground comes in.
yeah we will, or most likely we won’t. My bet on our next big build spend is a north stand re-build inside the next 5 years. What’s your call?

I don’t know.  All I know is that if the owners’ ambition is to compete at the top of the PL and CL they’ll need to build a new ground. If they’re happy to be also-rans we can stay as we are with an inconsequential increase in capacity and cosmetic changes. Their spending this summer is encouraging though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on July 31, 2019, 03:00:29 PM
Percy, I thought you'd be one of the biggest VP remainers going.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 31, 2019, 03:09:02 PM
Percy, I thought you'd be one of the biggest VP remainers going.

Haha, good one! I wouldn’t mind something like the Allianz Arena on the current site, but I’d like it even better somewhere more accessible to more people.

I’m afraid I voted to Leave anyway, since most of my mates turned into Tommy Robinson fans after the Brexit campaign. So it’s probably nothing to do with me anymore. Wherever we play, I’ll be watching in Chelmsley Wood.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 31, 2019, 05:00:57 PM
England's Number 1, England's, England's Number 1......

Heaton is not up for discussion here unless he knows a great architect with a penchant for the past.

Arse and bollocks.

Though perhaps that's why I disagree a lot with folk, I just post on the wrong threads all the time......
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: IFWaters on July 31, 2019, 07:41:38 PM
I favour either :

a) rebuilding Villa Park as a proper redbrick fortress. Think the style of the Aston Webb building at Birmingham University but three times bigger. Massive brick covered superstructure like a huge satanic mill landed in Aston from planet 1895 when we were champions three years running. The whole thing detailed with mosaics, dark stained glass windows and lit by gas lamps. Inside 4 stands seperated by the corner towers but the Holte rebuilt as the largest single tier stand in the world. Basically a monumental victorian-styled ornate FOOTBALL GROUND.

OR

b) A giant UFO landed right on top of New Street station , a glowing claret orb lighting up the city centre, the most modern technically advanced stadium in the world, right slap bang in the centre. All transport issues resolved in a single stroke and stands out as unique as our club is. Ive always felt that the most appropriate sponsors for us would be Aston Martin as they have the same class as us, but the stadium MUST always be Villa Park.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 31, 2019, 07:48:13 PM
I favour either :

a) rebuilding Villa Park as a proper redbrick fortress. Think the style of the Aston Webb building at Birmingham University but three times bigger. Massive brick covered superstructure like a huge satanic mill landed in Aston from planet 1895 when we were champions three years running. The whole thing detailed with mosaics, dark stained glass windows and lit by gas lamps. Inside 4 stands seperated by the corner towers but the Holte rebuilt as the largest single tier stand in the world. Basically a monumental victorian-styled ornate FOOTBALL GROUND.

OR

b) A giant UFO landed right on top of New Street station , a glowing claret orb lighting up the city centre, the most modern technically advanced stadium in the world, right slap bang in the centre. All transport issues resolved in a single stroke and stands out as unique as our club is. Ive always felt that the most appropriate sponsors for us would be Aston Martin as they have the same class as us, but the stadium MUST always be Villa Park.

Both would be fine with me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on July 31, 2019, 08:33:01 PM
I'm easy with option b but option a would be proper ace.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Pat Mustard on July 31, 2019, 08:41:04 PM
I favour either :

a) rebuilding Villa Park as a proper redbrick fortress. Think the style of the Aston Webb building at Birmingham University but three times bigger. Massive brick covered superstructure like a huge satanic mill landed in Aston from planet 1895 when we were champions three years running. The whole thing detailed with mosaics, dark stained glass windows and lit by gas lamps. Inside 4 stands seperated by the corner towers but the Holte rebuilt as the largest single tier stand in the world. Basically a monumental victorian-styled ornate FOOTBALL GROUND.

OR

b) A giant UFO landed right on top of New Street station , a glowing claret orb lighting up the city centre, the most modern technically advanced stadium in the world, right slap bang in the centre. All transport issues resolved in a single stroke and stands out as unique as our club is. Ive always felt that the most appropriate sponsors for us would be Aston Martin as they have the same class as us, but the stadium MUST always be Villa Park.

Option A, but with AV floodlight pylons in each corner, and a massive  gable on the roof of what was the Trinity Road side.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on July 31, 2019, 09:44:10 PM
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4027/4343005519_f502dcda78_z.jpg?zz=1)

Shove a glass roof on either end, put AV floodlights in the corners - job done.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on July 31, 2019, 09:47:38 PM
I favour either :

a) rebuilding Villa Park as a proper redbrick fortress. Think the style of the Aston Webb building at Birmingham University but three times bigger. Massive brick covered superstructure like a huge satanic mill landed in Aston from planet 1895 when we were champions three years running. The whole thing detailed with mosaics, dark stained glass windows and lit by gas lamps. Inside 4 stands seperated by the corner towers but the Holte rebuilt as the largest single tier stand in the world. Basically a monumental victorian-styled ornate FOOTBALL GROUND.

OR

b) A giant UFO landed right on top of New Street station , a glowing claret orb lighting up the city centre, the most modern technically advanced stadium in the world, right slap bang in the centre. All transport issues resolved in a single stroke and stands out as unique as our club is. Ive always felt that the most appropriate sponsors for us would be Aston Martin as they have the same class as us, but the stadium MUST always be Villa Park.
Drove past Villa Park today. Theres a lot of activity going on. Theyre giving the place a right good spruce up on the outside. One thing struck me. The entrance to the North Stand has lovely new signage. A large claret and blue sign saying simply "VILLA PARK. HOME SINCE 1892" That would suggest to me that our owners have really bought into the wonderful history of our once stately home. Just a small thing really but i saw it as a sign of intent not to abandon our roots.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 31, 2019, 10:03:16 PM
1892??
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2019, 10:04:42 PM
Yes, 1897 surely?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on July 31, 2019, 10:06:08 PM
uh oh
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 31, 2019, 10:13:50 PM
Ha ha ha, here's hoping that's a typo. By The Edge, not The Villa.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on July 31, 2019, 10:16:12 PM
1892??
Ha my bad. You guys are on the ball here.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2019, 11:03:52 PM
I favour either :

a) rebuilding Villa Park as a proper redbrick fortress. Think the style of the Aston Webb building at Birmingham University but three times bigger. Massive brick covered superstructure like a huge satanic mill landed in Aston from planet 1895 when we were champions three years running. The whole thing detailed with mosaics, dark stained glass windows and lit by gas lamps. Inside 4 stands seperated by the corner towers but the Holte rebuilt as the largest single tier stand in the world. Basically a monumental victorian-styled ornate FOOTBALL GROUND.

OR

b) A giant UFO landed right on top of New Street station , a glowing claret orb lighting up the city centre, the most modern technically advanced stadium in the world, right slap bang in the centre. All transport issues resolved in a single stroke and stands out as unique as our club is. Ive always felt that the most appropriate sponsors for us would be Aston Martin as they have the same class as us, but the stadium MUST always be Villa Park.

For me it'd be something between the 2.

Outside I love big, over the top red brick buildings but I'd want something with loads of windows to let in natural light to all the concourses, I'd like to see 3 stands that are something similar to Victoria mill in Manchester. The Holte would take it even further, keep the massive staircases and balconies but take it much further. On top of that I'd want a 'fan park' with pop-up vendors (digbeth dining club style) invited and create a 'fun day' atmosphere for as many games as possible with all sorts of 'stuff' going on to encourage fans to be there early. It won't appeal to everyone, but that's really not the point, it's about giving people who want to arrive at 1pm (for a Saturday afternoon kick off) and have a beer and food and meet with mates a place to do just that.

Inside I'd want big, bright, broad concourses with modern facilities designed to serve a full stadium of people in 15 minutes. The club should want as many fans as possible to go for a drink and a snack and should make sure they don't have to miss 5-10 minutes of the game to do it. Before kickoff I'd have screens all over the concourses showing videos of precious matches, the team sheet, results in other games, etc. I'd also make sure the entire place was covered by a top quality wifi bubble.

On top though I'd have a single wrapped roof over all 4 stands that was designed to be special, that can go as modern as you like, I want it screaming out that we have this history but we're looking forward as well.

I know some of this is over the top and unlikely but I think that something uniquely Villa (and Birmingham) as a true landmark would be fantastic, and a great way to ensure the fans take a shine to it from the very beginning.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on July 31, 2019, 11:11:03 PM
I’d be happy with getting a pint without queuing for the whole of half time and the ability to message my brother in London when we have scored.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 31, 2019, 11:15:18 PM
They have the upside down pourer things this year so hoping they get quicker at serving beer. I doubt the phone signal will be any better. It's only every any good during low attendances and we don't have those any more.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on August 01, 2019, 12:32:52 AM
Villa have something - a visual style to the ground (old Trinity Road/Holte End) that few if any clubs can match. Follow that template and, wherever the ground is, it'll be Villa Park and it'll be a success. Live up to playing at 'the stately home of football' and we good rake in some serious money.

I'd imagine there'll be contingency plans on top of contingency plans, and as has been said before regardless of what happens we ain't building a new stand/ground overnight. Probably makes sense to start looking at options sooner rather than later.

Personally I'm a leaver if it's to a city centre site. I think we could genuinely mop up of we were walking distance from HS2/New Street and built an impressive enough ground. Thinking a horseshoe of red brick stands in a kind of half octogen* and a massive free standing "New Holte End" stand with rail seating akin to the Sudtribune in Dortmund. But with a different, modern design in contrast to the other stands. With two proper floodlights either side, one "A" and one "V".

* You know how the old Trinity Road stand was flat and then angled in at the ends?  Sort of carrying on that so each stand links up at 45 degrees the other.
Sounds Good 👍 can someone with CAD kit knock up a mock up with Selfridges/ Bullring/ St Martins etc in the backdrop ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on August 01, 2019, 12:38:48 AM
We build a bigger, modern, stadium and the support will follow.

There's literally zero evidence to support this.

Back in the 1920s Villa Park had a capacity of 80,000 but since then we've averaged more than 40,000 six times.  Five of those being before 1950!

When we were pushing for a Champions League place under MON our attendances fell!

I just don't buy this idea that if we suddenly spunk hundreds of millions of pounds on a new stadium or four new stands we'd suddenly be pulling in 80,000 every week and the investment would pay for itself.
I’d have to tick the strongly disagree box with you on that.Derby, Leicester and Southampton all improved existing stadiums and massive increases in attendance followed without the clubs winning any trophies at the time.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: purpletrousers on August 01, 2019, 12:51:40 AM
I’m liking the 21st Cebtury Victorian superstructure idea, basically build a castle, A & V floodlights on each corner turret, wouldn’t it be refreshing to build something that is unique, that’s closer to Aston Hall / Leitch than identikit stadiums. Would be lovely to really expand transform B6 if we can.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on August 01, 2019, 01:02:39 AM
Wolves have just finished in th etop half on the top-flight for the first time in nearly 40 years, they need 4-5 years to show it's not a flash in the pan. We were regularly top half of the league for 20 years and are coming back from a 7-8 year 'blip' of relegation battles and lower league football. The circumstances are very different and we're not taling about qualifying for the champions league this year, just pointing out that we should be considering our options for a new ground given 1 stand is woefully out of date, another is barely fit for purpose and the final 2, whilst functional, have a number of problems that would be hard to resolve.

7-8 years is more than a 'blip'! We've also not won a trophy for 23 years and never played in the Champions League.

I'm not sure why, just because we've finally been promoted back to where we all agree we belong, we feel that Villa Park is suddenly a shithole that needs erasing from memory so we can go somewhere flash.

I'm as positive about our potential future as the next person, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. If it was your money, would you speculate in this way? Just because we have wealthy owners doesn't mean we should get all entitled and demand they spend more.

If it was my money, I’d be getting on with it, because I’d be buying some of the world’s best players and I know for a fact that if we had a team like Man City or Liverpool we’d need a bigger ground than either of them has got at the minute. Only the owners (and people close to them) know the extent of their ambition, but if it’s to constantly compete for trophies and play in the Champions League they should build the new ground or massively increase capacity and improve facilities at Villa Park.
Agree with you Percy on that 100%. I often say to Liverpool fans that if we’d won the trophies  they have the last 50 years our ground would be double the size of theirs.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on August 01, 2019, 07:04:26 AM
We build a bigger, modern, stadium and the support will follow.

There's literally zero evidence to support this.

Back in the 1920s Villa Park had a capacity of 80,000 but since then we've averaged more than 40,000 six times.  Five of those being before 1950!

When we were pushing for a Champions League place under MON our attendances fell!

I just don't buy this idea that if we suddenly spunk hundreds of millions of pounds on a new stadium or four new stands we'd suddenly be pulling in 80,000 every week and the investment would pay for itself.
I’d have to tick the strongly disagree box with you on that.Derby, Leicester and Southampton all improved existing stadiums and massive increases in attendance followed without the clubs winning any trophies at the time.

I'd also strongly disagree - The evidence is in almost every single team that has moved.

The issue with Villa is that it's not a priority.  Most teams that move do so from terribly outdated stadiums (see Everton) or because their stadiums are way too small (see Spurs)

Villa Park is iconic and more than acceptable facility wise.  There is scope for another 10,000 by rebuilding the North Stand or alternatively up to 5,000 by filling in the corners.

Moving forward, I wonder whether there is any way of making the DE bigger?

At this moment in time, I see no argument for us to move.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on August 01, 2019, 08:35:30 AM
I favour either :

a) rebuilding Villa Park as a proper redbrick fortress. Think the style of the Aston Webb building at Birmingham University but three times bigger. Massive brick covered superstructure like a huge satanic mill landed in Aston from planet 1895 when we were champions three years running. The whole thing detailed with mosaics, dark stained glass windows and lit by gas lamps. Inside 4 stands seperated by the corner towers but the Holte rebuilt as the largest single tier stand in the world. Basically a monumental victorian-styled ornate FOOTBALL GROUND.

OR

b) A giant UFO landed right on top of New Street station , a glowing claret orb lighting up the city centre, the most modern technically advanced stadium in the world, right slap bang in the centre. All transport issues resolved in a single stroke and stands out as unique as our club is. Ive always felt that the most appropriate sponsors for us would be Aston Martin as they have the same class as us, but the stadium MUST always be Villa Park.
could we have option b but with huge A  V floodlights at each end of the  orb?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on August 01, 2019, 08:57:37 AM
We build a bigger, modern, stadium and the support will follow.

There's literally zero evidence to support this.

Back in the 1920s Villa Park had a capacity of 80,000 but since then we've averaged more than 40,000 six times.  Five of those being before 1950!

When we were pushing for a Champions League place under MON our attendances fell!

I just don't buy this idea that if we suddenly spunk hundreds of millions of pounds on a new stadium or four new stands we'd suddenly be pulling in 80,000 every week and the investment would pay for itself.
I’d have to tick the strongly disagree box with you on that.Derby, Leicester and Southampton all improved existing stadiums and massive increases in attendance followed without the clubs winning any trophies at the time.

I'd also strongly disagree - The evidence is in almost every single team that has moved.

The issue with Villa is that it's not a priority.  Most teams that move do so from terribly outdated stadiums (see Everton) or because their stadiums are way too small (see Spurs)

Villa Park is iconic and more than acceptable facility wise.  There is scope for another 10,000 by rebuilding the North Stand or alternatively up to 5,000 by filling in the corners.

Moving forward, I wonder whether there is any way of making the DE bigger?

At this moment in time, I see no argument for us to move.
If all goes to plan on the pitch the club will have no choice. The DE will have to go as will the North Stand. My choice is for a bigger and better version of both.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nev on August 01, 2019, 09:18:15 AM
I know Liverpool had to jump through a fair few hoops to redevelop the main stand, including purchasing housing that sat right up to the rear of the structure. It was controversial as well from what I remember.
Their next step is to extend the Anfield Road and this has the road directly behind so it may well involve an up and over with the road running underneath.

A combination of these would be needed for us to re-do the Witton Lane, the road was moved and a row of houses demolished when Ellis did his bit, a larger version will be needed now. The North Stand has room for expansion and I believe the Trinity and Holte are big enough.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on August 01, 2019, 11:43:11 AM
Dear owners, knowing you must both be short of a few quid now, would you like us H&V’s to have a whip round........

Or shall we wait until you’ve announced Wilson and Maupay first ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on August 01, 2019, 10:12:43 PM
Additional signage and further money added to north stand near visitors ticket office


(https://i.ibb.co/L1P5FkC/9101-E29-D-05-C3-4-FE8-9079-4-DCAF65052-F0.jpg) (https://ibb.co/L1P5FkC)


Any updates on our demolition of buildings planned from July 22nd onwards ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 01, 2019, 11:33:39 PM
Trialing safe standing

(https://www.ocregister.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/fans.villapark-1.jpg?w=620)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on August 01, 2019, 11:38:53 PM
Said it before but I am loving the investment thank you Wes thank you Nassef.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on August 02, 2019, 02:59:55 AM
This could be the best value signing of what’s been a great summer in a key position. Seems like a top guy and pro a la Mings. (See Henry Winter’s tweet) Reading Burnley fans fora they are genuinely gutted he’s leaving but they’ve been very classy in wishing him well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on August 02, 2019, 03:04:47 AM
Fucing H&V login issues on my phone (wrong thread) but you get my drift!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kipeye on August 02, 2019, 10:14:38 AM
I would prefer us to stay at VP but willing to listen to other ideas. If it was possible, I would not only like VP to be developed into a 21st century stadium and keep its unique Victorian style, but integrate it fully into the local community with proper infrastructure that benefits all and encourages both small and larger investment.
In terms of design I love the old and new put together and have been indirectly involved in many projects that have been successful in reflecting heritage with exciting design and accessibility.
The key for me though, is not just the ground but the surrounding area. Man City's investment has been all about this and Aston is a far better opportunity than Eastlands.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on August 02, 2019, 10:53:05 AM

(https://i.ibb.co/H4Nf063/1-BB53405-886-B-45-C1-86-A6-73-D9225-BDE72.png) (https://ibb.co/H4Nf063)


That’s a screenshot to savour
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on August 02, 2019, 11:06:48 AM

(https://i.ibb.co/H4Nf063/1-BB53405-886-B-45-C1-86-A6-73-D9225-BDE72.png) (https://ibb.co/H4Nf063)


That’s a screenshot to savour

Nice.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on August 02, 2019, 11:09:02 AM
I might print that out and put it in a frame on the mantelpiece next to the photos of the kids.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on August 02, 2019, 11:28:00 AM
I might print that out and put it in a frame on the mantelpiece next to the photos of the kids.

Don't waste space with kids pictures - getter a larger frame for that :)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 02, 2019, 12:17:47 PM
You need to find a frame big enough to put that screenshot next to an article from a July 2018 that has us at the mercy of the taxman, Wyness getting booted and Jack on the verge of being sold. You will be hard pressed see a bigger or quicker turnaround in financial fortunes in any sport anywhere in the world.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 02, 2019, 12:21:26 PM
Nett spending we are even higher. Only Real Madrid above us I believe. I've just seen an interview with the Barcelona manager saying "we can't compete with the Aston Villas of this world".
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on August 02, 2019, 12:27:35 PM
Nett spending we are even higher. Only Real Madrid above us I believe. I've just seen an interview with the Barcelona manager saying "we can't compete with the Aston Villas of this world".
Was going to say, we're 2nd only to Real Madrid in net spend ... and only €40m behind, so if it really is 2 more players in the pipeline ...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on August 02, 2019, 01:07:20 PM
Nett spending we are even higher. Only Real Madrid above us I believe. I've just seen an interview with the Barcelona manager saying "we can't compete with the Aston Villas of this world".

Do you have a link to that? 😂😂😂
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on August 02, 2019, 01:35:45 PM
He's aping O'Leary for comedic effect.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Monty on August 02, 2019, 01:38:16 PM
We are financial giants.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villatillidie25 on August 02, 2019, 01:52:49 PM
Nett spending we are even higher. Only Real Madrid above us I believe. I've just seen an interview with the Barcelona manager saying "we can't compete with the Aston Villas of this world".

Do you have a link to that? 😂😂😂

echo that!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on August 05, 2019, 06:59:33 PM
The vinyl on the back of the North looks a lot better.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 05, 2019, 07:38:47 PM
Nett spending we are even higher. Only Real Madrid above us I believe. I've just seen an interview with the Barcelona manager saying "we can't compete with the Aston Villas of this world".

Do you have a link to that? 😂😂😂

echo that!

Sorry, it was an attempt at a jape. Was taking the piss out of O'Leary.

Like most of my references, it's a couple of decades old.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on August 05, 2019, 07:39:02 PM
Any pics?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on August 06, 2019, 12:20:53 PM
Any pics?


I have got loads. What are you interested in? Hardcore porn or amusing pictures of cute animals?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on August 06, 2019, 12:22:25 PM
Any pics?


I have got loads. What are you interested in? Hardcore porn or amusing pictures of cute animals?

Vinyl on the North Stand and cats please.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on August 06, 2019, 01:35:19 PM
(http://)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on August 06, 2019, 01:38:23 PM
(http://)

I'm shocked.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 06, 2019, 01:39:30 PM
The dirty bastard. Imagination porn. It could literally be anything.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 07, 2019, 12:18:43 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/avfc/comments/aeajjg/wes_edens_daughter_rocking_a_retro_villa_jersey/
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Monty on August 07, 2019, 02:31:06 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/avfc/comments/aeajjg/wes_edens_daughter_rocking_a_retro_villa_jersey/

The comments are new #levels of depressing.

Good for her though. Great fashion sense.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 07, 2019, 03:43:30 AM
Phrases that piss you off.  new #levels of depressing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on August 07, 2019, 02:05:00 PM
(http://)

I'm shocked.

Sorry  - I cannot do picture cut and pastes

there are images on another thread on here  "Stadium Signage" *

* idont know how to link to other thread either :(




Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Tuscans on August 09, 2019, 02:08:34 PM
Tony Xia’s directorship on the Companies House has been terminated. He is no longer listed as Vice Chairman on the club website.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on August 09, 2019, 02:47:14 PM
I'll miss those suits
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on August 09, 2019, 03:00:21 PM
Finally, the chancer can go back to making monosodium glutamate.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nev on August 09, 2019, 03:01:25 PM
It all went tits up after I introduced myself to him in a lift midway through the season before last.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: jwarry on August 09, 2019, 03:04:17 PM
So it appears he couldn’t afford to pay Randy the £30m he owed him because we got promoted, so NSWE paid it for him and got him off our books? Wow, when I think of the live we had for the bloke when he first came and he damn nearly liquidated us!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on August 09, 2019, 03:08:09 PM
Tony's bell no longer rings. UTV.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on August 09, 2019, 03:14:27 PM
One Ford Mondeo for sale. Only used for four months. I'll throw a red flag in with it as well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on August 09, 2019, 03:18:36 PM
Begs the question how on earth did he pass any sort of fit and proper tests in the first place.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on August 09, 2019, 03:24:21 PM
Everything about him from day one screamed chancer. He deserves no credit for our current position whatsoever.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on August 09, 2019, 03:26:36 PM
Begs the question how on earth did he pass any sort of fit and proper tests in the first place.
Those tests are a complete and utter joke, aren't they? As far as I can tell, it only precludes people currently barred from acting as a director or similar.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on August 09, 2019, 03:36:47 PM
There is a decent book waiting to be written about Tony

We still know virtually nothing about him or his motivations

I’m guessing the front man for a group of shady investors wishing to clean up their money and image
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 09, 2019, 03:46:52 PM
I won’t forget the shit I got when I suggested that his scampering out of Wembley after the play off Final was indicative of a wider problem.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Monty on August 09, 2019, 03:57:10 PM
I won’t forget the shit I got when I suggested that his scampering out of Wembley after the play off Final was indicative of a wider problem.

Do you have a list of names?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on August 09, 2019, 04:09:38 PM
It's terrible to bear an online grudge.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brend'Watkins on August 09, 2019, 04:22:37 PM
the only good thing he did was selling up to the two we have now.  For that we should be grateful.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 09, 2019, 04:32:10 PM
I won’t forget the shit I got when I suggested that his scampering out of Wembley after the play off Final was indicative of a wider problem.

Do you have a list of names?

And a quote of the post where you said he scampered off?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KevinGage on August 09, 2019, 04:36:00 PM
I won’t forget the shit I got when I suggested that his scampering out of Wembley after the play off Final was indicative of a wider problem.

I had major doubts from the outset, but benefit of the (pretty considerable) doubt until concrete info comes to hand.

I wouldn't be gloating on an online forum though. It's one of those scenarios where I'd have been quite happy to be wrong.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on August 09, 2019, 04:40:25 PM
I’d like to know if Xia approached Wes and Nassef or the other way around and did they make him an offer he really couldn’t refuse because they knew he was in the shit? Either way, what a piece of business for us fans!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on August 09, 2019, 04:44:09 PM
It's mad to think that winning the playoff a year earlier could have actually been the worst thing possible for the club.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on August 09, 2019, 04:46:30 PM
It's mad to think that winning the playoff a year earlier could have actually been the worst thing possible for the club.


Yes indeed.  Going up would have papaered over the cracks of the financial problems and saddled us with Spuduhate for another season.  We'd probably have been even shitter than last time we went down, and would be looking at a season in the Championship now with no Grealish or McGinn etc.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: BC Villain on August 09, 2019, 04:48:38 PM
I’d like to know if Xia approached Wes and Nassef or the other way around and did they make him an offer he really couldn’t refuse because they knew he was in the shit? Either way, what a piece of business for us fans!

Apparently they cleared his debt as Xia couldn't even pay the 30 million he owed to Lerner.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on August 09, 2019, 05:02:42 PM
Dr Tony went to Rome,
In a Ford Mondeo
Because he was a skint fucking charlatan.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on August 09, 2019, 05:06:08 PM
It’s actually quite scary that Xia was able to takeover from Lerner in the first place. We’ve very lucky to have NSWE save us from that fraud.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Virgil Caine on August 09, 2019, 05:16:58 PM
The BBC article states that the the club is still run by the Recon Group UK holding company- can we assume that if has no debt it can be dissolved?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on August 09, 2019, 05:18:57 PM
Dr Tony went to Rome
In a Ford Mondeo
Did his bollocks 
And then some
Because the distribution rights for monosodium glutamate are not the same as 10% of Adidas.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Yeltzer on August 09, 2019, 05:20:51 PM
Another great, accurate piece from John Percy

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/08/09/story-behind-spending-aston-villa-meticulously-planned-premier/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: garyshawsknee on August 09, 2019, 05:28:50 PM
It's not worth thinking about how close we we're to being absolutely fooked and how Dr X was allowed take control.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 09, 2019, 05:30:24 PM
I won’t forget the shit I got when I suggested that his scampering out of Wembley after the play off Final was indicative of a wider problem.

Do you have a list of names?

And a quote of the post where you said he scampered off?
No I can’t remember the exact words.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Bad English on August 09, 2019, 05:32:13 PM
See ya Xia! Tararabit!

#(bull)s(h)ittingwithxia
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: garyshawsknee on August 09, 2019, 05:34:46 PM
Another great, accurate piece from John Percy

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/08/09/story-behind-spending-aston-villa-meticulously-planned-premier/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw

Cheers, makes for a well balanced read. I've listened to, two season preview podcasts this week and they both mentioned Fulham and us in the same breath, nearly made me piss blood.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on August 09, 2019, 05:41:18 PM
Another great, accurate piece from John Percy

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/08/09/story-behind-spending-aston-villa-meticulously-planned-premier/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw
It's a good read, other than claiming that JG nearly went to Spurs last summer: Spurs never got anywhere near a realistic bid, did they?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 09, 2019, 05:42:25 PM
I won’t forget the shit I got when I suggested that his scampering out of Wembley after the play off Final was indicative of a wider problem.

Do you have a list of names?

And a quote of the post where you said he scampered off?
No I can’t remember the exact words.

So you'll never forget something you can't remember?  ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 09, 2019, 05:43:47 PM
Another great, accurate piece from John Percy

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/08/09/story-behind-spending-aston-villa-meticulously-planned-premier/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw
It's a good read, other than claiming that JG nearly went to Spurs last summer: Spurs never got anywhere near a realistic bid, did they?

Quote
"It was really close," Grealish told the BBC at Bodymoor Heath last week when discussing his proposed move to Tottenham last summer. "I thought the Hull City game was going to be my last game but one thing led to another and I didn't end up going."
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on August 09, 2019, 05:51:28 PM
Another great, accurate piece from John Percy

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/08/09/story-behind-spending-aston-villa-meticulously-planned-premier/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw
It's a good read, other than claiming that JG nearly went to Spurs last summer: Spurs never got anywhere near a realistic bid, did they?

Quote
"It was really close," Grealish told the BBC at Bodymoor Heath last week when discussing his proposed move to Tottenham last summer. "I thought the Hull City game was going to be my last game but one thing led to another and I didn't end up going."
Yes, I remember that quote, PWS, but none of the numbers proposed made sense at the time.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 09, 2019, 05:57:54 PM
I won’t forget the shit I got when I suggested that his scampering out of Wembley after the play off Final was indicative of a wider problem.

Do you have a list of names?

And a quote of the post where you said he scampered off?
No I can’t remember the exact words.

So you'll never forget something you can't remember?  ;)
I said I won’t forget the shit I got, not the words I used to suggest that something was up.
I had picked up from my sources that there were serious problems behind the scenes and that Dr Tonys behavior related. Of course some people would not or could not believe that, even after the HMRC winding up petition.
Water under the bridge now eh.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Tuscans on August 09, 2019, 06:00:11 PM
When we couldn't find him on Forbes and he waved his $400 million cheque to a reporter, you just knew he was bluffing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: BC Villain on August 09, 2019, 06:16:51 PM
It’s actually quite scary that Xia was able to takeover from Lerner in the first place. We’ve very lucky to have NSWE save us from that fraud.

Part of me wonders if Bernstein and Kings hasty exit might be linked to them being wary about Lerner selling to Xia.

Let's face it, Lerner cocked up most things while he was here.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: jwarry on August 09, 2019, 06:31:15 PM
It’s actually quite scary that Xia was able to takeover from Lerner in the first place. We’ve very lucky to have NSWE save us from that fraud.

Part of me wonders if Bernstein and Kings hasty exit might be linked to them being wary about Lerner selling to Xia.

Let's face it, Lerner cocked up most things while he was here.

You might have a point there, but wouldn’t Merv have said something by now? Or has time gone?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 09, 2019, 06:33:39 PM

I said I won’t forget the shit I got, not the words I used to suggest that something was up.
I had picked up from my sources that there were serious problems behind the scenes and that Dr Tonys behavior related. Of course some people would not or could not believe that, even after the HMRC winding up petition.
Water under the bridge now eh.

If it's water under the bridge why mention it in the first place, especially as you can't remember anything about it?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 09, 2019, 06:42:02 PM

I said I won’t forget the shit I got, not the words I used to suggest that something was up.
I had picked up from my sources that there were serious problems behind the scenes and that Dr Tonys behavior related. Of course some people would not or could not believe that, even after the HMRC winding up petition.
Water under the bridge now eh.

If it's water under the bridge why mention it in the first place, especially as you can't remember anything about it?
Bless you.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on August 09, 2019, 06:44:46 PM
9/8/10 Martin O'Neill did a runner.
9/8/10 Tony Xia has finally left the building.

A certain symmetry there, isn't there?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: garyshawsknee on August 09, 2019, 06:50:29 PM
The journalist Matt Scott was very quick to question Dr Xs reputation and how he got his funds. And because I think Scott is a bit of a bell end, I chose to ignore him, more fool me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on August 09, 2019, 06:51:40 PM
9/8/10 Martin O'Neill did a runner.
9/8/10 Tony Xia has finally left the building.

A certain symmetry there, isn't there?


I think the second one should say '19'.  But yes.  One exit designed to cause maximum damage.  The other designed to stop any further damage.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on August 09, 2019, 07:20:34 PM
Can someone copy and paste the Telegraph article?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: BC Villain on August 09, 2019, 07:26:37 PM
Matt Scott got loads of abuse and stick for calling out Xia - as did others.

Ultimately he was a man who walked into a club which had become a factory of misery under Lerner and Fox.  He said the right things; cosied up to people on twitter, and ended up getting carried away by the adulation he was receiving - all while recklessly gambling our clubs very future.  Anyone who dared to ask too many questions (like Scott, Holloway etc) was publiclly belittled and abused via his cryptic tweets.

In short, he was an egotistical and compulsive gambler who threw the deeds to his house on the last hand.  Whether or not he meant to do so much damage is irrelevant.  He deserves no sympathy
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 09, 2019, 07:33:00 PM
It’s actually quite scary that Xia was able to takeover from Lerner in the first place. We’ve very lucky to have NSWE save us from that fraud.

Part of me wonders if Bernstein and Kings hasty exit might be linked to them being wary about Lerner selling to Xia.

Let's face it, Lerner cocked up most things while he was here.

They left well before he was ever heard of.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on August 09, 2019, 07:45:23 PM
It’s actually quite scary that Xia was able to takeover from Lerner in the first place. We’ve very lucky to have NSWE save us from that fraud.

Part of me wonders if Bernstein and Kings hasty exit might be linked to them being wary about Lerner selling to Xia.

Let's face it, Lerner cocked up most things while he was here.

They left well before he was ever heard of.

I don't think them leaving was anything to do with Xia, but I think your timeline is a bit awry.  Bernstein and King resigned in April 2016.  It was announced that Xia was buying the club the following month.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 09, 2019, 08:10:35 PM
It’s all very well some of us having a degree in the university of hindsight but a lot were sucked in by his ‘charm’, promises of sunlit uplands and Aston turning into the new Bund.  Almost the anyone better than Lerner feeling.  Not to mention his sexy tweets.  I was more concerned at the time with his associates Banfill and Samuelson - their departures were very strange but welcome.  He passed the proper owners test because all he had to demonstrate was his ability to cover operating costs for two seasons - quite easy with parachute money! 

And I don’t think anyone needed a degree to know we were royally in the shit if they simply looked at the horror on his face on the sky camera as the game against Fulham drew to a close.  Lerner pretending he had done his homework on the bloke turned out to be the last joke on us.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 09, 2019, 08:31:42 PM
Nobody knew either way. Why not (wrongly) give him the benefit of the doubt? It's just some random opinions, ultimately.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 09, 2019, 08:36:27 PM
It’s actually quite scary that Xia was able to takeover from Lerner in the first place. We’ve very lucky to have NSWE save us from that fraud.

Part of me wonders if Bernstein and Kings hasty exit might be linked to them being wary about Lerner selling to Xia.

Let's face it, Lerner cocked up most things while he was here.

They left well before he was ever heard of.

I don't think them leaving was anything to do with Xia, but I think your timeline is a bit awry.  Bernstein and King resigned in April 2016.  It was announced that Xia was buying the club the following month.

I got the impression, and I could be wrong, that he came in at short notice but whatever the timeline, they left for other reasons.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on August 09, 2019, 08:43:34 PM
9/8/10 Martin O'Neill did a runner.
9/8/10 Tony Xia has finally left the building.

A certain symmetry there, isn't there?


I think the second one should say '19'.  But yes.  One exit designed to cause maximum damage.  The other designed to stop any further damage.
Silly me!   :)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on August 09, 2019, 08:43:59 PM
Didn’t their relationship with lerner breakdown after an ‘interesting’ meeting with him?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: BC Villain on August 09, 2019, 09:00:03 PM
It’s actually quite scary that Xia was able to takeover from Lerner in the first place. We’ve very lucky to have NSWE save us from that fraud.

Part of me wonders if Bernstein and Kings hasty exit might be linked to them being wary about Lerner selling to Xia.

Let's face it, Lerner cocked up most things while he was here.

They left well before he was ever heard of.

Hmmm.  Seem to remember on the day they left Steve Hollis saying he was in advanced talks with a potential buyer....

You might be right Dave, but the timing seems a bit suspicious to me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: four fornicholl on August 09, 2019, 09:07:08 PM
It’s actually quite scary that Xia was able to takeover from Lerner in the first place. We’ve very lucky to have NSWE save us from that fraud.

Part of me wonders if Bernstein and Kings hasty exit might be linked to them being wary about Lerner selling to Xia.

Let's face it, Lerner cocked up most things while he was here.

They left well before he was ever heard of.

I don't think them leaving was anything to do with Xia, but I think your timeline is a bit awry.  Bernstein and King resigned in April 2016.  It was announced that Xia was buying the club the following month.

I got the impression, and I could be wrong, that he came in at short notice but whatever the timeline, they left for other reasons.
Classy get out, you a solicitor? ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 09, 2019, 09:12:27 PM
Didn’t their relationship with lerner breakdown after an ‘interesting’ meeting with him?

I read that. Lerner got pissed and gave them a round of fucks or something.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: themossman on August 09, 2019, 09:14:37 PM
Every time this comes up I just picture the guy out of Fox catcher shouting at his wrestling team.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on August 09, 2019, 10:57:39 PM
And I don’t think anyone needed a degree to know we were royally in the shit if they simply looked at the horror on his face on the sky camera as the game against Fulham drew to a close.
Any clips of that online? Don’t think I ever watched the game back in full.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 09, 2019, 11:07:14 PM
I remember he proved his wealth by showing a cash point style balance statement.

Some of us pointed out that real billionaires don't do something so bizarre to prove their wealth.

Looking back, he got the benefit of the doubt big time.

And I can't believe anyone can stick up for him, saying he did his best, he very very nearly bankrupted this club, the fucking chancer.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on August 09, 2019, 11:19:10 PM
I think it was yourself that always had concerns and didn’t trust where the money was coming from...unfortunately you were very right.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Meanwood Villa on August 09, 2019, 11:42:06 PM
A lot of people, myself included, just wanted Xia to be the real deal so we bought it. The love-in for the current owners isn't much different to what there was for Lerner and Xia so fuck knows what will happen in future with these lot to be honest. Being a football fan does sometimes feel like the last vestiges of the feudal system, praying your lord will do the right thing by you.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 10, 2019, 12:02:06 AM
A lot of people, myself included, just wanted Xia to be the real deal so we bought it. The love-in for the current owners isn't much different to what there was for Lerner and Xia so fuck knows what will happen in future with these lot to be honest. Being a football fan does sometimes feel like the last vestiges of the feudal system, praying your lord will do the right thing by you.

With Lerner and NSWE you knew the money existed and where it came from. With Xia you didn't have a clue. With Lerner there was no plan apart from throw money at it (or rather, give it to O'Neill to throw), with NSWE there's a proper infrastructure.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on August 10, 2019, 12:19:05 AM
Didn’t their relationship with lerner breakdown after an ‘interesting’ meeting with him?

I read that. Lerner got pissed and gave them a round of fucks or something.
I heard they lost a game of rock, paper, scissors and then Lerner humiliated them by only buying ice cream for himself.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 10, 2019, 12:51:26 AM
Didn’t their relationship with lerner breakdown after an ‘interesting’ meeting with him?

I read that. Lerner got pissed and gave them a round of fucks or something.
I heard they lost a game of rock, paper, scissors and then Lerner humiliated them by only buying ice cream for himself.

He ought to have bought one for everyone.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 10, 2019, 01:45:36 AM
And I don’t think anyone needed a degree to know we were royally in the shit if they simply looked at the horror on his face on the sky camera as the game against Fulham drew to a close.
Any clips of that online? Don’t think I ever watched the game back in full.

I’ve tried to find it numerous times but haven’t found it.  I watched it when I got back on the Sunday after the Fulham game but seeing as we lost the game I deleted it!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: purpletrousers on August 10, 2019, 01:46:23 AM
Can someone copy and paste the Telegraph article?

It is less than 24 hours after Aston Villa have clinched promotion back to the Premier League at Wembley, and the £127 million rebuilding job is already well underway.

The tradition of an open-bus tour to celebrate is abandoned, and Dean Smith is holed up at Villa Park with chief executive Christian Purslow and sporting director Jesus Garcia Pitarch, with the wheels in motion now the end of the club’s exile from the top-flight has been confirmed.

Twelve new signings have since followed over the next two months, with 12 players leaving, in a drastic but necessary reshaping of Smith’s squad as Villa bid to first stabilise this famous old club back in the top tier.

The strategy was clear: reduce the average age, reduce the average wage and increase the quality.

Purslow, an experienced operator who counts Liverpool and Chelsea among his former clubs, told Telegraph Sport: “Our brief when we appointed Dean and Jesus in October last year was to rebuild the squad in the summer, in either scenario.

“Two plans existed in terms of the players we monitored and obviously with promotion we were able to pursue the Plan A targets when we knew what the budget was.


“We’re happy with the business we’ve done and think in a few months’ time it will look even better.”


Wesley, a Brazilian forward previously at Club Brugge, is the joint record signing at £21 million, while there have been other eye-catching arrivals such as Douglas Luiz from Manchester City, England goalkeeper Tom Heaton, Egypt star Trezeguet and the Zimbabwe international Marvelous Nakamba (a headline writer’s dream).

There are other notable signings, with one of the most popular undoubtedly Tyrone Mings, who proved such a revelation on loan over the second half of last season and shares the record transfer fee with Wesley.

There are, of course, no guarantees that it will all work but there has been a tangible buzz around the Villa training ground this week ahead of their clash with Tottenham Hotspur on Saturday.

“Doing a Fulham?”

That accusation has been levelled at Villa over the last few weeks by rival supporters yet it seems unfair and misinformed, with the only similarity that both clubs had to work quickly after winning the Championship play-off final.

As Purslow points out, Villa’s meticulous planning began last year and their summer business has been a clear strategy agreed between Smith, Purslow and Pitarch - known as Suso - and the recruitment team, with most signings designed to be low-risk with potential.

Brazilian striker Wesley was a £21m capture from Club Brugge
Brazilian striker Wesley was a £21m capture from Club Brugge CREDIT: ACTION IMAGES
Every summer signing has either played under Smith before or was scouted by the Villa manager, or monitored extensively from December onwards. Trezeguet was recommended by Villa defender and Egypt team-mate Ahmed Elmohamady and there is genuine excitement about how the winger will perform.


Villa could easily have spent more this summer, too, but there has been a determination to avoid the “legacy deals” which have cost the club millions in recent years.

For example, on the day after the play-off final a £12 million offer was tabled for Bristol City centre-half Adam Webster and turned down, with the Championship club quoting a price of £25 million.

Webster eventually went to Brighton, who paid the fee demanded, and Villa signed Bjorn Engels, a Belgian centre-half scouted by Smith at former club Brentford, from Reims for a third of the price.

Offers for Brentford’s Said Benrahma and Leeds midfielder Kalvin Phillips were also rejected, with the two clubs demanding substantial fees, so Villa looked elsewhere for more realistic options.

The signing of Douglas from the Premier League champions is one which gives Villa extra satisfaction. The Brazil under-23 captain, Douglas was highly admired by Pep Guardiola but his chances of making an impact at City were thwarted by work permit issues.

Villa faced huge complexities to make the deal happen, but his arrival was officially ratified this week; while other clubs might have seen it as a mess, Villa saw it as an opportunity.

With Nakamba, Villa had first moved for the midfielder in January but Brugge refused to sell. Villa watched most of his games last season and signed him for £10 million last month. He has already earned comparisons to N’Golo Kante from his time in Belgium and has experience of the Champions League.


Even after such a busy summer, which works out at a £127 million gross spend without including transfer add-ons, there is no doubt who remains the main man.

Jack Grealish is Villa’s captain, a decade after sitting in the Witton Lane Stand as a season ticket holder, and it will be fascinating to see how he performs in the Premier League.

He has been patiently waiting for this opportunity on the grand stage and knows there will be eyes on him.

Grealish could have moved to Spurs last summer, before Villa’s new owners Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens performed their rescue act, but now there is a genuine chance for him to fulfil his potential at the top level.

Gareth Southgate, the England manager, will be at the Spurs match on Saturday and Grealish will undoubtedly be one player in his sights.

How Grealish, and Villa, start the season could be crucial to their hopes of avoiding “Doing a Fulham” and dropping straight back into the Championship.

But after three years out of the limelight, Villa are back.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villafirst on August 10, 2019, 06:56:19 AM
Scary how close the club came to oblivion. Those we dark days indeed just over 12 months ago. Glad that the last remnants of the Xia regime have finally gone - I sincerely thank Wes and Nassef for their investment in our club. Apparently it's taken the best part of £200m to stabilise the club - shows how deep we were in the mire. Onwards and upwards.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on August 10, 2019, 07:22:30 AM
Thanks purpletrousers, much appreciated.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on August 10, 2019, 10:02:09 AM
Theres a great piece about the villa today in The Times. Its by Henry Winter. It heaps praise on the new owners,staff and the club itself. It also puts to bed the debate we've been having on H&V about the stadium. Increasing capacity is definitely on the cards but knocking the ground down or moving is not an option. Christian Purslow calls the ground a "football cathederal" If i knew how i would have posted it on here but unfortunately i don't.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on August 10, 2019, 10:08:57 AM
By the way my nephew sent it to me and he's a card carrying knuckle dragging blue nose.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 10, 2019, 10:11:10 AM
Link below, but behind a paywall. If anyone who subscribes wants to paste if for us, I'm sure we would be grateful! 😊

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/villa-were-bankrupt-now-weve-spent-131m-on-team-cdxz552m6
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: thick_mike on August 10, 2019, 10:23:56 AM
From Facebook...

Villa were bankrupt. Now we’ve spent £131m on team’

Henry Winter, Chief Football Writer
August 10 2019, 12:01am, The Times
Grealish and Smith, Villa’s captain and manager, both of whom supported the club from boyhood, led the side out of the Championship back to the top flight
Grealish and Smith, Villa’s captain and manager, both of whom supported the club from boyhood, led the side out of the Championship back to the top flight
HARRIET LANDER/GETTY IMAGES
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When Christian Purslow strides to his chief executive’s office at Villa Park, he passes the famous statue of William McGregor, the founder of the Football League, one of the many magnificent reminders of the club’s great history.

“We should rejoice that one of our original directors founded professional football in this country but we shouldn’t be drowned by a retrospective look at our history,” Purslow says. “We need to look to the future. A year ago this club was facing extinction. It was bankrupt. It had a £4 million tax bill that it couldn’t pay. The club faced being wiped out.”

The story of Villa’s revival is as remarkable off the field as on. Not only are they newly promoted to the Premier League, but they are being re-galvanised with a transformed training set-up, a strengthened, professionalised women’s section and a new mood of optimism.

Now 55, Purslow worked at Liverpool in dark times, tackling the chaos of Tom Hicks and George Gillett’s tenure, helped revive Chelsea’s commercial operations, and admits that he’s like “Red Adair”, brought in to put out fires. Villa’s was blazing. He was appointed by the new owners, Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens, on July 18, 2018, to solve the financial difficulties that forced Tony Xia, the Chinese businessman, to sell up.

“It is a fantastic institution,” Purslow continues. “Within seconds of arriving here, it consumed me. It’s an emotional reaction. The health of the football club is my life.”

He is sitting in the canteen at Villa’s Bodymoor Heath training ground, outlining the strong characters and values driving Villa. His head coach Dean Smith, and the club’s sporting director, Jesús García Pitarch (also known as Suso), join us briefly to chat about the season ahead. What is very clear is how the three operate as a team and, when required, through contact with Sawiris and Edens.

“They are about as perfect you could wish for as owners,” Purslow says. “Nassef and Wes rescued Villa by injecting a lot of money to clear all the club’s debts. They are knowledgeable about sport, experienced, patient, and above all else, realistic about what it takes to compete in the Premier League. We’ve just spent £131 million in one summer on completely rebuilding the football club [squad in the transfer window].”

The fans are loving it. “We have 7,000 on a wait-list [for season tickets] for the first time in the club’s history. Villa Park is 42,000 capacity and if Villa get properly established in the Premier League, we will have demand to require us to add capacity. There are plans where we can infill.” They would not consider knocking Villa Park down. “No chance! Villa Park is a cathedral to football.”

Bodymoor Heath is undergoing changes, particularly with HS2 due to run across some of the old pitches. “We bought a huge amount of wasteland to replace the blighted pitches from HS2, and have taken the opportunity with our new owners to build a state-of-the-art youth training set-up. I hope it will be the pre-eminent academy in English football.”

The new owners’ commitment to Villa was seen in a recent, unexpected outlay. When Randy Lerner sold Villa to Xia for £70 million in 2016, the American inserted a clause in the deal that Xia would pay him an additional £30 million should Villa regain their Premier League within three seasons. Should Xia not pay up, the club would be accountable. When Villa were promoted via the play-offs this summer, Xia failed to pay Lerner, so Sawiris and Edens stepped in to settle the monies due.

Villa seem in good hands now, and safe hands in goal with the recruitment of the 33-year-old Tom Heaton. “If you look at the 12 [other] players we bought, Tyrone [Mings] was the oldest at 26,” Purslow says. “Our strategy, quite deliberately, is buying young players on sensible wages who, if they prove themselves in the Premier League, will grow their value. Dean and Suso sat down, and said, ‘OK, we’ve achieved all of our outfield targets, it would be good to have an experienced, senior pro who had seen the Premier League.’ Tom was that target. Yes we were buying England’s No 2 but we were buying experience and additional leadership. Everybody we spoke to said, ‘Tom Heaton will be a really good senior pro for you.’ ”

Heaton’s professionalism was immediately seen when he excelled in his first appearance for Villa, in the friendly with RB Leipzig. “He’d got a phone call from his partner on the way to the game, saying she was at the vets. Completely out of the blue, their poor dog [had become ill] and the vet was recommending the dog be put down. Tom had to make that decision on the way to his debut. What a professional.”

Heaton joins a dressing room stocked with good characters like local boy Jack Grealish. “Jack is the heart and soul and face of our club,” Purslow adds. “He’s kind, generous and incredibly driven. He lit up the Championship. He was unplayable. If we hadn’t been promoted it would have been impossible to keep a player who’d performed at that level. He had a £60 million escape clause. Somebody would probably have invoked it. Jack can be Villa’s Steven Gerrard in terms of importance and impact to his club.”

Purslow enthuses about the “fantastic staff” at the club. “We have a really experienced leadership group. The most experienced chief executive in the Premier League in Sharon Barnhurst just completing her 30th year at Villa. I’ve been in football 12 years. Jesús had 20 years as a sporting director at Valencia and Atletico Madrid, 20 years as a professional footballer.

“Dean’s steeped in football. He’s seen everything in football. He’s played. He’s coached. He’s put the bibs and cones out. He’s painted the seats in Orient’s stadium. He has a huge amount of earned authority. He’s calm and constant.”

The value Purslow particularly admires is being “fearless”. “For players, being fearless in the way they play football,” he adds. “As a club, I want us to be fearless in a way we use football and Villa as a force for good. Bad behaviour that in the street has been illegal for many years is still seen in football stadiums. I promise you we will be fearless in calling out unacceptable behaviour in the stadium. You can hold me to that challenge. We will not tolerate anti-social behaviour.”

What about players and dissent? “Players know what these values are. Dean held a workshop with the players in America. It’s about integrity. Dean and John (Terry, his assistant) are hugely influential role models. When Dean and John walk into any public place, they’re swamped. People listen to them, respect them. Dean is worshipped in the Villa side of this city. John is one of the superstars of world football. You are role models, let’s use that positively.

“Having the founding father of the game standing outside our stadium when I walk into work shows Villa is a bit special. And it needs to live up to that by living up to some traditional values being lost in modern-day life. I want us to be a bit different as a football club. I want us to shine a light.” McGregor would approve.

105 Seasons that Aston Villa have spent playing in the top flight of English football, second only to Everton (116)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on August 10, 2019, 10:27:21 AM
When Christian Purslow strides to his chief executive’s office at Villa Park, he passes the famous statue of William McGregor, the founder of the Football League, one of the many magnificent reminders of the club’s great history.

“We should rejoice that one of our original directors founded professional football in this country but we shouldn’t be drowned by a retrospective look at our history,” Purslow says. “We need to look to the future. A year ago this club was facing extinction. It was bankrupt. It had a £4 million tax bill that it couldn’t pay. The club faced being wiped out.”

The story of Villa’s revival is as remarkable off the field as on. Not only are they newly promoted to the Premier League, but they are being re-galvanised with a transformed training set-up, a strengthened, professionalised women’s section and a new mood of optimism.

Now 55, Purslow worked at Liverpool in dark times, tackling the chaos of Tom Hicks and George Gillett’s tenure, helped revive Chelsea’s commercial operations, and admits that he’s like “Red Adair”, brought in to put out fires. Villa’s was blazing. He was appointed by the new owners, Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens, on July 18, 2018, to solve the financial difficulties that forced Tony Xia, the Chinese businessman, to sell up.

“It is a fantastic institution,” Purslow continues. “Within seconds of arriving here, it consumed me. It’s an emotional reaction. The health of the football club is my life.”

He is sitting in the canteen at Villa’s Bodymoor Heath training ground, outlining the strong characters and values driving Villa. His head coach Dean Smith, and the club’s sporting director, Jesús García Pitarch (also known as Suso), join us briefly to chat about the season ahead. What is very clear is how the three operate as a team and, when required, through contact with Sawiris and Edens.

“They are about as perfect you could wish for as owners,” Purslow says. “Nassef and Wes rescued Villa by injecting a lot of money to clear all the club’s debts. They are knowledgeable about sport, experienced, patient, and above all else, realistic about what it takes to compete in the Premier League. We’ve just spent £131 million in one summer on completely rebuilding the football club [squad in the transfer window].”

The fans are loving it. “We have 7,000 on a wait-list [for season tickets] for the first time in the club’s history. Villa Park is 42,000 capacity and if Villa get properly established in the Premier League, we will have demand to require us to add capacity. There are plans where we can infill.” They would not consider knocking Villa Park down. “No chance! Villa Park is a cathedral to football.”

Bodymoor Heath is undergoing changes, particularly with HS2 due to run across some of the old pitches. “We bought a huge amount of wasteland to replace the blighted pitches from HS2, and have taken the opportunity with our new owners to build a state-of-the-art youth training set-up. I hope it will be the pre-eminent academy in English football.”

The new owners’ commitment to Villa was seen in a recent, unexpected outlay. When Randy Lerner sold Villa to Xia for £70 million in 2016, the American inserted a clause in the deal that Xia would pay him an additional £30 million should Villa regain their Premier League within three seasons. Should Xia not pay up, the club would be accountable. When Villa were promoted via the play-offs this summer, Xia failed to pay Lerner, so Sawiris and Edens stepped in to settle the monies due.

Villa seem in good hands now, and safe hands in goal with the recruitment of the 33-year-old Tom Heaton. “If you look at the 12 [other] players we bought, Tyrone [Mings] was the oldest at 26,” Purslow says. “Our strategy, quite deliberately, is buying young players on sensible wages who, if they prove themselves in the Premier League, will grow their value. Dean and Suso sat down, and said, ‘OK, we’ve achieved all of our outfield targets, it would be good to have an experienced, senior pro who had seen the Premier League.’ Tom was that target. Yes we were buying England’s No 2 but we were buying experience and additional leadership. Everybody we spoke to said, ‘Tom Heaton will be a really good senior pro for you.’ ”

Heaton’s professionalism was immediately seen when he excelled in his first appearance for Villa, in the friendly with RB Leipzig. “He’d got a phone call from his partner on the way to the game, saying she was at the vets. Completely out of the blue, their poor dog [had become ill] and the vet was recommending the dog be put down. Tom had to make that decision on the way to his debut. What a professional.”

Heaton joins a dressing room stocked with good characters like local boy Jack Grealish. “Jack is the heart and soul and face of our club,” Purslow adds. “He’s kind, generous and incredibly driven. He lit up the Championship. He was unplayable. If we hadn’t been promoted it would have been impossible to keep a player who’d performed at that level. He had a £60 million escape clause. Somebody would probably have invoked it. Jack can be Villa’s Steven Gerrard in terms of importance and impact to his club.”

Purslow enthuses about the “fantastic staff” at the club. “We have a really experienced leadership group. The most experienced chief executive in the Premier League in Sharon Barnhurst just completing her 30th year at Villa. I’ve been in football 12 years. Jesús had 20 years as a sporting director at Valencia and Atletico Madrid, 20 years as a professional footballer.

“Dean’s steeped in football. He’s seen everything in football. He’s played. He’s coached. He’s put the bibs and cones out. He’s painted the seats in Orient’s stadium. He has a huge amount of earned authority. He’s calm and constant.”

The value Purslow particularly admires is being “fearless”. “For players, being fearless in the way they play football,” he adds. “As a club, I want us to be fearless in a way we use football and Villa as a force for good. Bad behaviour that in the street has been illegal for many years is still seen in football stadiums. I promise you we will be fearless in calling out unacceptable behaviour in the stadium. You can hold me to that challenge. We will not tolerate anti-social behaviour.”

What about players and dissent? “Players know what these values are. Dean held a workshop with the players in America. It’s about integrity. Dean and John (Terry, his assistant) are hugely influential role models. When Dean and John walk into any public place, they’re swamped. People listen to them, respect them. Dean is worshipped in the Villa side of this city. John is one of the superstars of world football. You are role models, let’s use that positively.

“Having the founding father of the game standing outside our stadium when I walk into work shows Villa is a bit special. And it needs to live up to that by living up to some traditional values being lost in modern-day life. I want us to be a bit different as a football club. I want us to shine a light.” McGregor would approve.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on August 10, 2019, 10:27:52 AM
Whoops!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on August 10, 2019, 10:32:38 AM
When Christian Purslow strides to his chief executive’s office at Villa Park, he passes the famous statue of William McGregor, the founder of the Football League, one of the many magnificent reminders of the club’s great history.

“We should rejoice that one of our original directors founded professional football in this country but we shouldn’t be drowned by a retrospective look at our history,” Purslow says. “We need to look to the future. A year ago this club was facing extinction. It was bankrupt. It had a £4 million tax bill that it couldn’t pay. The club faced being wiped out.”

The story of Villa’s revival is as remarkable off the field as on. Not only are they newly promoted to the Premier League, but they are being re-galvanised with a transformed training set-up, a strengthened, professionalised women’s section and a new mood of optimism.

Now 55, Purslow worked at Liverpool in dark times, tackling the chaos of Tom Hicks and George Gillett’s tenure, helped revive Chelsea’s commercial operations, and admits that he’s like “Red Adair”, brought in to put out fires. Villa’s was blazing. He was appointed by the new owners, Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens, on July 18, 2018, to solve the financial difficulties that forced Tony Xia, the Chinese businessman, to sell up.

“It is a fantastic institution,” Purslow continues. “Within seconds of arriving here, it consumed me. It’s an emotional reaction. The health of the football club is my life.”

He is sitting in the canteen at Villa’s Bodymoor Heath training ground, outlining the strong characters and values driving Villa. His head coach Dean Smith, and the club’s sporting director, Jesús García Pitarch (also known as Suso), join us briefly to chat about the season ahead. What is very clear is how the three operate as a team and, when required, through contact with Sawiris and Edens.

“They are about as perfect you could wish for as owners,” Purslow says. “Nassef and Wes rescued Villa by injecting a lot of money to clear all the club’s debts. They are knowledgeable about sport, experienced, patient, and above all else, realistic about what it takes to compete in the Premier League. We’ve just spent £131 million in one summer on completely rebuilding the football club [squad in the transfer window].”

The fans are loving it. “We have 7,000 on a wait-list [for season tickets] for the first time in the club’s history. Villa Park is 42,000 capacity and if Villa get properly established in the Premier League, we will have demand to require us to add capacity. There are plans where we can infill.” They would not consider knocking Villa Park down. “No chance! Villa Park is a cathedral to football.”

Bodymoor Heath is undergoing changes, particularly with HS2 due to run across some of the old pitches. “We bought a huge amount of wasteland to replace the blighted pitches from HS2, and have taken the opportunity with our new owners to build a state-of-the-art youth training set-up. I hope it will be the pre-eminent academy in English football.”

The new owners’ commitment to Villa was seen in a recent, unexpected outlay. When Randy Lerner sold Villa to Xia for £70 million in 2016, the American inserted a clause in the deal that Xia would pay him an additional £30 million should Villa regain their Premier League within three seasons. Should Xia not pay up, the club would be accountable. When Villa were promoted via the play-offs this summer, Xia failed to pay Lerner, so Sawiris and Edens stepped in to settle the monies due.

Villa seem in good hands now, and safe hands in goal with the recruitment of the 33-year-old Tom Heaton. “If you look at the 12 [other] players we bought, Tyrone [Mings] was the oldest at 26,” Purslow says. “Our strategy, quite deliberately, is buying young players on sensible wages who, if they prove themselves in the Premier League, will grow their value. Dean and Suso sat down, and said, ‘OK, we’ve achieved all of our outfield targets, it would be good to have an experienced, senior pro who had seen the Premier League.’ Tom was that target. Yes we were buying England’s No 2 but we were buying experience and additional leadership. Everybody we spoke to said, ‘Tom Heaton will be a really good senior pro for you.’ ”

Heaton’s professionalism was immediately seen when he excelled in his first appearance for Villa, in the friendly with RB Leipzig. “He’d got a phone call from his partner on the way to the game, saying she was at the vets. Completely out of the blue, their poor dog [had become ill] and the vet was recommending the dog be put down. Tom had to make that decision on the way to his debut. What a professional.”

Heaton joins a dressing room stocked with good characters like local boy Jack Grealish. “Jack is the heart and soul and face of our club,” Purslow adds. “He’s kind, generous and incredibly driven. He lit up the Championship. He was unplayable. If we hadn’t been promoted it would have been impossible to keep a player who’d performed at that level. He had a £60 million escape clause. Somebody would probably have invoked it. Jack can be Villa’s Steven Gerrard in terms of importance and impact to his club.”

Purslow enthuses about the “fantastic staff” at the club. “We have a really experienced leadership group. The most experienced chief executive in the Premier League in Sharon Barnhurst just completing her 30th year at Villa. I’ve been in football 12 years. Jesús had 20 years as a sporting director at Valencia and Atletico Madrid, 20 years as a professional footballer.

“Dean’s steeped in football. He’s seen everything in football. He’s played. He’s coached. He’s put the bibs and cones out. He’s painted the seats in Orient’s stadium. He has a huge amount of earned authority. He’s calm and constant.”

The value Purslow particularly admires is being “fearless”. “For players, being fearless in the way they play football,” he adds. “As a club, I want us to be fearless in a way we use football and Villa as a force for good. Bad behaviour that in the street has been illegal for many years is still seen in football stadiums. I promise you we will be fearless in calling out unacceptable behaviour in the stadium. You can hold me to that challenge. We will not tolerate anti-social behaviour.”

What about players and dissent? “Players know what these values are. Dean held a workshop with the players in America. It’s about integrity. Dean and John (Terry, his assistant) are hugely influential role models. When Dean and John walk into any public place, they’re swamped. People listen to them, respect them. Dean is worshipped in the Villa side of this city. John is one of the superstars of world football. You are role models, let’s use that positively.

“Having the founding father of the game standing outside our stadium when I walk into work shows Villa is a bit special. And it needs to live up to that by living up to some traditional values being lost in modern-day life. I want us to be a bit different as a football club. I want us to shine a light.” McGregor would approve.
Theres some gold nuggets in there from CP. The last paragraph gave me goosebumps. Cheers for posting
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 10, 2019, 10:33:45 AM
Thanks, both!

I guess we can put aside the "let's move stadium" debate for now, then. Pleased that they seem to be considering expansion, anyway.

Also, pleased that the women are professional, now. Didn't realise that. Hopefully they can get promoted in the near future, now.

Also surprised that Lizz didn't add Tom Heaton's dog to the Celebrity Deathwatch Thread...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan For Life on August 10, 2019, 10:42:46 AM
The recent interviews with Smith, Purslow and SJM are fantastic reads. It’s a long time since I’ve felt such a connection with the club and the players.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 10, 2019, 12:05:30 PM
Thanks, both!

I guess we can put aside the "let's move stadium" debate for now, then. Pleased that they seem to be considering expansion, anyway.

Also, pleased that the women are professional, now. Didn't realise that. Hopefully they can get promoted in the near future, now.

Also surprised that Lizz didn't add Tom Heaton's dog to the Celebrity Deathwatch Thread...

#prayfortomsdog
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on August 10, 2019, 12:46:42 PM
Whoops!

Not to worry Perce.  It was worth reading twice.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on August 10, 2019, 12:53:39 PM
Great insight. Full of optimism at the moment, can’t wait for it to start.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: old man villa fan on August 10, 2019, 12:57:53 PM
I think Xia was just a front for others with the money.  It coincided with other Chinese money coming into the game here.  The money stopped and Xia was hung out to dry.  It shows that if you can't 'see' the money, there is a massive risk of it all collapsing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 10, 2019, 01:02:21 PM
Looking around, it's incredible how much support Xia still has. He was a charlatan, a con man if you like, who almost took us into administration yet somehow there's always an excuse for him.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 10, 2019, 01:07:16 PM
He wasn’t a front of any kind.  He was the one boasting in that Daily Mail article in Beijing how rich he was without actually putting a figure on it.  In fact I wonder if he still rents those made up regus suite offices.  They looked totally fake as well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: garyshawsknee on August 10, 2019, 01:08:58 PM
The only bad part of the play off win was seeing him in the background celebrating like a competition winner.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on August 10, 2019, 01:17:18 PM
Looking around, it's incredible how much support Xia still has. He was a charlatan, a con man if you like, who almost took us into administration yet somehow there's always an excuse for him.


I wasn't aware he had any support left amongst Villa fans. I thought we realised that however good his rather deluded intentions may or may not have been were he was very much a 'smoke and mirrors' owner. The only surprise is he rocked up at Villa Park instead of Small Heath, where he would have fitted in with their ownership pattern.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on August 10, 2019, 01:28:57 PM
How much of his back story was true? Where did the money come from to pay lerner for the purchase?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brend'Watkins on August 10, 2019, 01:33:08 PM
Thanks, both!

I guess we can put aside the "let's move stadium" debate for now, then.


That it was ever even muted by some on here is an outright disgrace.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smoke on August 10, 2019, 01:38:38 PM
Lerner shown his true colours there too. So the guy he found and decided to sell to couldn't pay him his bonus? Yeah.. go after the club for it and the new owners who saved it from administration. Prick.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Monty on August 10, 2019, 01:40:19 PM
Thanks, both!

I guess we can put aside the "let's move stadium" debate for now, then.


That it was ever even muted by some on here is an outright disgrace.

Agreed, you should never suppress free speech.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 10, 2019, 01:46:42 PM
Saviour or dreamer?

Busi­ness­man Xia set to buy Villa for ‘bar­gain’ £74.5m plus £40m bonus for owner Randy Lerner
 He says it’s big deal for fans but claims it’s small change com­pared with his $3.5bn swoop in US

By Nick Har­ris CHIIEF SPORTS NEWS COR­RE­SPON­DENT22 May 2016

TONY XIA, As­ton Villa’s owner-in­wait­ing, chuck­les when asked if he is a dol­lar bil­lion­aire.

‘I think it’s rather more than that,’ says the 39-year-old Chi­nese busi­ness­man, ex­plain­ing that just a few months ago he sold one of his com­pa­nies, Tea­max, for £430mil­lion, which is sit­ting in a bank account wait­ing to be spent, in part on Villa.


‘I own quite a lot of pri­vate busi­nesses and I think I can sell some of them for the same amount or more,’ adds Xia, who has pro­vided The Mail on Sun­day with a bank trans­fer cer­tifi­cate pur­port­ing to show the funds from the Teamex deal.

Speak­ing from his home in Bei­jing yes­ter­day in an hour-long ex­clu­sive in­ter­view, he re­vealed not just the fi­nan­cial nuts and bolts of the deal that could put him in con­trol at Villa Park within weeks but also...

How he be­came ac­quainted with China’s pres­i­dent, Xi Jin­ping.

Villa are not the sole ob­ject of his foot­balling af­fec­tions.

If his plans come to fruition, then the As­ton area of Birm­ing­ham will be­come home to a foot­ball theme park mar­keted to Chi­nese and In­dian tourists.

Villa’s academy will find and nur­ture the best young tal­ent in China, who, when good enough, can play a role in pop­u­lar­is­ing the club in his home coun­try.

‘If’, for the mo­ment, is the key word in the phrase ‘if his plans come to fruition’. Xia was happy to talk about his past, his pri­vate life, his busi­ness ca­reer and his fi­nances.

Within weeks he will need to prove, beyond doubt and with hard cash, that he has the as­sets and abil­ity to buy Villa and fund it. Ini­tial checks cor­rob­o­rate some of the in­for­ma­tion.

But the re­al­ity is that China has an opaque busi­ness en­vi­ron­ment and a chaot­i­cally ex­pand­ing econ­omy. In the short time since Xia hit the head­lines, it is im­pos­si­ble to ver­ify ev­ery­thing about him.

Even his birth­date has been ques­tioned. Xia, whose full name is Xia Jiantong, says he was born on Oc­to­ber 26, 1976, and that the con­fu­sion arose be­cause he started school as a pre­co­cious four-year-old whose par­ents needed for le­gal rea­sons to pre­tend he was six.

What is fact, and The MoS has ver­i­fied, is that he stud­ied land­scape de­sign at Har­vard Univer­sity in the late 1990s, started a de­sign com­pany, XWHO, in Bos­ton, Mas­sachusetts in March 1999, co-owned by his girl­friend at the time Cong Liu and one of his lec­tur­ers, Prof Charles Har­ris. Reg­istries in the USA and China show the com­pany re­lo­cated to Hangzhou in the eastern prov­ince of Zhe­jiang, where Xia also started Teamex, a plan­ning com­pany that has pro­vided ser­vices as hun­dreds of new cities have been built. Firms op­er­at­ing across IT, health, trans­port, de­sign, tourism and fi­nance were added. Xia’s busi­ness em­pire ex­ists un­der an um­brella or­gan­i­sa­tion called the RE­CON Group but most of the sub­sidiaries are pri­vately held, not stock­mar­ket listed. The most vis­i­ble, Lo­tus, has been loss­mak­ing but Xia is open about this and says it is turn­ing around.

He in­sists that within a few months a series of ma­jor merg­ers and ac­qui­si­tions will bring a big­ger chunk of his busi­ness into the public do­main. ‘I would rather keep a low pro­file,’ he says. It is pointed out that buy­ing a foot­ball club just rel­e­gated from the Pre­mier League is not a clever way to do that. ‘Ac­tu­ally you’re right,’ he laughs.

‘There’s been more at­ten­tion than I’d ex­pect or could pre­dict. I knew peo­ple would pay at­ten­tion, but not this much.’

Scru­tiny, he is find­ing out, comes as part of the pack­age and he dis­closes what he will pay for Villa. Lerner, the Amer­i­can owner, wanted more than £100m but Xia says he has set­tled for £52m up front, plus Xia’s guar­an­tee of clear­ing Villa’s over­draft at HSBC of £24.5m. Xia says that £74.5m is thus sit­ting in a ring-fenced bank account.

Lerner will earn a £30m bonus if Villa re­turn to the Pre­mier League within three years and another £10m if they stay there for another three years after pro­mo­tion.

‘I ap­pre­ci­ate it’s a big deal for Villa

fans,’ he says. ‘But ac­tu­ally in pure busi­ness terms, I’m work­ing on ac­qui­si­tions much big­ger than this.’ He says, for ex­am­ple, that within months he will com­plete a $3.5bn takeover of a US lo­gis­tics firm.

If true, Villa fans could well have got them­selves an owner if not quite as rich as Ro­man Abramovich then cer­tainly ex­tremely wealthy. Whether he, like them, is a life­long sup­porter, is less clear.

Xia spent five months on an ex­change at Trin­ity Col­lege, Ox­ford, in 1998-99 and saw one Villa home game dur­ing that time. He says he can­not re­mem­ber who they played, or the score. This hardly smacks of an awestruck devo­tee.

He in­sists he has kept an eye on Villa’s for­tunes since but ad­mits he also has a soft spot for Arse­nal and is rather more con­vinc­ing wax­ing lyri­cal on Den­nis Bergkamp and Thierry Henry. ‘I can as­sure you my first and only foot­ball pri­or­ity from now will be As­ton Villa though,’ he says.

Xia says he has of­fered the man­ager’s job to one of three can­di­dates in the public do­main but won’t con­firm which of Roberto Di Mat­teo, Nigel Pear­son or David Moyes it is.

‘When the man­ager is ap­pointed, we will dis­cuss his bud­get,’ Xia adds. It is ex­pected be­tween £20m and £50m will be avail­able for trans­fers, de­pend­ing on the case made by who­ever gets the job.

The long-term plan in­clude a foot­ball mu­seum and theme park to at­tract foot­ball tourists from China and India, and the re­cruit­ment of young Chi­nese play­ers to Villa’s academy, if not as for­mal schol­ars then on ex­change pro­grammes.

Xia says he will spend a lot of time in Birm­ing­ham over the next year, buy­ing a house for him­self and his wife Sally and daugh­ter Char­lotte, who turns two this sum­mer. He says buy­ing a club has been a long-term aim. He has played foot­ball since col­lege; Har­vard records show him in the univer­sity league. He says love of the sport and a de­sire to di­ver­sify his busi­ness in­ter­ests are his main driver, al­though the knowl­edge that China’s pres­i­dent, Xi Jin­ping, wants China to be­come a foot­balling su­per­power, is not lost on him.

He has known the pres­i­dent for some time, al­beit not closely. Xi was the most se­nior gov­ern­ment of­fi­cial in Zhe­jiang Prov­ince when Xia re­lo­cated there to the same in­dus­trial park as Jack Ma, China’s rich­est man in re­cent years.

Pres­i­dent Xi vis­ited both men’s com­pa­nies when they were still on the up. Xia dreams he might be tempted to Villa Park too.

For now, that re­mains a dream, just as Xia knows his plans for Villa re­main a dream in the eyes of many. He still has ev­ery­thing to prove.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on August 10, 2019, 01:47:56 PM
Lerner shown his true colours there too. So the guy he found and decided to sell to couldn't pay him his bonus? Yeah.. go after the club for it and the new owners who saved it from administration. Prick.
For all his faults, expecting to be paid an agreed contractual fee when the club is owned by hugley rich owners is hardly a crime.  Would you waive £30m if it was owed to you by multi billionaites?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on August 10, 2019, 01:54:10 PM
The issue over the payment of £30m has annoyed me. Xia deserves no support.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smoke on August 10, 2019, 01:58:29 PM
Lerner shown his true colours there too. So the guy he found and decided to sell to couldn't pay him his bonus? Yeah.. go after the club for it and the new owners who saved it from administration. Prick.
For all his faults, expecting to be paid an agreed contractual fee when the club is owned by hugley rich owners is hardly a crime.  Would you waive £30m if it was owed to you by multi billionaites?

Given his contract was with Xia who he sold the club to who then proceeded to nearly bankrupt it, I thought he might feel the smallest bit of responsibility for it. After all if his chosen owner hadn't been bailed out by wes and nas he would have got fuck all anyway.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 10, 2019, 02:04:18 PM
His contract most likely would’ve been with Recon part of who’s assets consisted of the football club.  Hence he still would be entitled to it.  You are right though if we had gone into Admin he probably wouldn’t have got his money back.  Unless he had security.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on August 10, 2019, 02:14:26 PM
The issue over the payment of £30m has annoyed me. Xia deserves no support.
It was yours truly who brought up the Henry Winter article this morning. I read it and felt so proud of my club (romantically nourished even)i wanted to share it with fellow fans. We should be full of optimism and hope for our club. The fact that it's ended with people grinding their gears over the shady bastards from yesteryear is a shame. Lets get back to enjoying the wonderful ride we're on now. UTV.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on August 10, 2019, 02:20:44 PM
I like how the new owners have taken the club to their hearts, appreciate our heritage and history, and have full respect for the fans and club as an institution:

Quote
The fans are loving it. “We have 7,000 on a wait-list [for season tickets] for the first time in the club’s history. Villa Park is 42,000 capacity and if Villa get properly established in the Premier League, we will have demand to require us to add capacity. There are plans where we can infill.” They would not consider knocking Villa Park down. “No chance! Villa Park is a cathedral to football.”

I also have every confidence that we will see improvements in the ground and services on match days...we just have to be a little patient for these improvements to be implemented.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on August 10, 2019, 02:25:48 PM
I like how the new owners have taken the club to their hearts, appreciate our heritage and history, and have full respect for the fans and club as an institution:

Quote
The fans are loving it. “We have 7,000 on a wait-list [for season tickets] for the first time in the club’s history. Villa Park is 42,000 capacity and if Villa get properly established in the Premier League, we will have demand to require us to add capacity. There are plans where we can infill.” They would not consider knocking Villa Park down. “No chance! Villa Park is a cathedral to football.”

I also have every confidence that we will see improvements in the ground and services on match days...we just have to be a little patient for these improvements to be implemented.
Definitely mate. And lets have no more talk of building a new ground in Digbeth etc. At least not under our current stewardship.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on August 10, 2019, 04:27:21 PM
No move away from VP? Woop woop! Take that, progressives!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 10, 2019, 04:34:52 PM
Looking around, it's incredible how much support Xia still has. He was a charlatan, a con man if you like, who almost took us into administration yet somehow there's always an excuse for him.


I wasn't aware he had any support left amongst Villa fans. I thought we realised that however good his rather deluded intentions may or may not have been were he was very much a 'smoke and mirrors' owner. The only surprise is he rocked up at Villa Park instead of Small Heath, where he would have fitted in with their ownership pattern.

Look on Facebook and there's some feeling sorry for him.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Bad English on August 10, 2019, 10:05:47 PM
Looking around, it's incredible how much support Xia still has. He was a charlatan, a con man if you like, who almost took us into administration yet somehow there's always an excuse for him.
Sounds a bit like Boris Johnson. But at least Xia was removed before he could tip us over the edge.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: not3bad on August 12, 2019, 12:24:14 PM
August 12 – Aston Villa have parted ways with businessman and former owner Tony Xia. The Chinese was removed as director and member of the board after he failed to pay his predecessor Randy Lerner a £30 million bonus.

In June 2016 the American Lerner sold Villa to Xia for £76 million after the club were relegated from the Premier League, but when Villa subsequently failed to gain promotion back to the top flight financial issues were beginning to expose the smokescreen Xia largely put up with his vocal presence on social media.

Administration was looming for the club when NSWE, a company headed by the world’s fourth-richest African Nassef Sawiris and American private equity investor Wes Edens, bought a 55% stake in 2018.

Under Xia’s ownership the club spent big, but with little reward. Villa lost about £50 million during his two seasons in charge.

Since the arrival of Sawiris and Edens the club’s financial position has stabilised. The club is run through the Recon Group UK holding company and has seen an injection of £200 million. Villa spent over £100 million on 12 new signings during the close season to try and build a competitive team for their return to the top flight.

At the weekend Villa opened their league season with a 3-1 defeat at Tottenham Hotspur. John McGinn had given the visitors a surprise lead early on and Villa stayed competitive until a quick-fire brace from Harry Kane in the last five minutes tilted the game in Tottenham’s favour.

http://www.insideworldfootball.com/2019/08/12/xia-axed-aston-villa-board-failure-pay-lerner-30m-bonus-fee/
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on August 12, 2019, 01:25:43 PM
The author of that piece has a name that rivals that of our own Marvelous.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: JUAN PABLO on October 10, 2019, 11:22:59 AM
Aston Villa's generous owners are continuing to show their commitment to the club, with the injection of a further £57million into the club via a share issue.


Must say Im loving these owners
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on October 10, 2019, 12:05:29 PM
RECON has also had its name changed, so Xia and any trace of him is now long gone.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dogtanian on October 10, 2019, 03:07:22 PM
I suspect that a large part of this could be for whatever they are planning regarding the demolition and construction behind the North Stand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on October 10, 2019, 03:11:08 PM
I suspect that a large part of this could be for whatever they are planning regarding the demolition and construction behind the North Stand.

I wouldn't have thought so, it'll be day to day working capital I'd have thought, in advance of getting the first slab of lovely TV money.  In one of the resolutions, it says that such injections are limited to £100m, so that's over half of that taken up.  Presumably though, they can increase this in future if they like.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on October 10, 2019, 03:16:08 PM
Looking around, it's incredible how much support Xia still has. He was a charlatan, a con man if you like, who almost took us into administration yet somehow there's always an excuse for him.
Sounds a bit like Boris Johnson. But at least Xia was removed before he could tip us over the edge.
Says you from France ? Keep politics out of sport unless you pay your taxes here still ?????
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Monty on October 10, 2019, 03:22:57 PM
Looking around, it's incredible how much support Xia still has. He was a charlatan, a con man if you like, who almost took us into administration yet somehow there's always an excuse for him.
Sounds a bit like Boris Johnson. But at least Xia was removed before he could tip us over the edge.
Says you from France ? Keep politics out of sport unless you pay your taxes here still ?????

Wow. Also tell that to Nigel Lawson/Barclay brothers/Ashcroft as well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on October 10, 2019, 03:36:19 PM
Looking around, it's incredible how much support Xia still has. He was a charlatan, a con man if you like, who almost took us into administration yet somehow there's always an excuse for him.
Sounds a bit like Boris Johnson. But at least Xia was removed before he could tip us over the edge.
Says you from France ? Keep politics out of sport unless you pay your taxes here still ?????

Wow. Also tell that to Nigel Lawson/Barclay brothers/Ashcroft as well.
Wow Monty , yes I agree with you, it’s not saying anyone can’t have an opinion but unless they are contributing to our country economically their views of our economy  are just diminished in my eyes . And for all I know BE and all those you mention might be contributing hence my question marks .  It’s a bit like Mr Simply Red Mick Hucknall preaching his socialist mantra to us about inequality and what we should be doing whilst domiciled in Italy and paying sweet FA in tax here at the time.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on October 10, 2019, 03:37:23 PM
Well, that escalated quickly.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: malckennedy on October 10, 2019, 03:46:28 PM
Looking around, it's incredible how much support Xia still has. He was a charlatan, a con man if you like, who almost took us into administration yet somehow there's always an excuse for him.
Sounds a bit like Boris Johnson. But at least Xia was removed before he could tip us over the edge.
Says you from France ? Keep politics out of sport unless you pay your taxes here still ?????

I pay my taxes here, can I say it please? Here goes - sounds a bit like Boris Johnson.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Monty on October 10, 2019, 04:18:29 PM
Looking around, it's incredible how much support Xia still has. He was a charlatan, a con man if you like, who almost took us into administration yet somehow there's always an excuse for him.
Sounds a bit like Boris Johnson. But at least Xia was removed before he could tip us over the edge.
Says you from France ? Keep politics out of sport unless you pay your taxes here still ?????

Wow. Also tell that to Nigel Lawson/Barclay brothers/Ashcroft as well.
Wow Monty , yes I agree with you, it’s not saying anyone can’t have an opinion but unless they are contributing to our country economically their views of our economy  are just diminished in my eyes . And for all I know BE and all those you mention might be contributing hence my question marks .  It’s a bit like Mr Simply Red Mick Hucknall preaching his socialist mantra to us about inequality and what we should be doing whilst domiciled in Italy and paying sweet FA in tax here at the time.

So I suppose you've never said anything about any other country then? Good to know.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AsTallAsLions on October 10, 2019, 04:24:07 PM
Looking around, it's incredible how much support Xia still has. He was a charlatan, a con man if you like, who almost took us into administration yet somehow there's always an excuse for him.
Sounds a bit like Boris Johnson. But at least Xia was removed before he could tip us over the edge.
Says you from France ? Keep politics out of sport unless you pay your taxes here still ?????

Edited: cba.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Small Rodent on October 10, 2019, 05:02:55 PM
Looking around, it's incredible how much support Xia still has. He was a charlatan, a con man if you like, who almost took us into administration yet somehow there's always an excuse for him.
Sounds a bit like Boris Johnson. But at least Xia was removed before he could tip us over the edge.
Says you from France ? Keep politics out of sport unless you pay your taxes here still ?????

Argo
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on October 10, 2019, 05:09:29 PM
Rebuild the North Stand.

And rename it 'Standy McStandface'.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FatSam on October 10, 2019, 05:39:12 PM
Looking around, it's incredible how much support Xia still has. He was a charlatan, a con man if you like, who almost took us into administration yet somehow there's always an excuse for him.
Sounds a bit like Boris Johnson. But at least Xia was removed before he could tip us over the edge.
Says you from France ? Keep politics out of sport unless you pay your taxes here still ?????

I pay my taxes here, can I say it please? Here goes - sounds a bit like Boris Johnson.

I also pay my taxes here. Sounds a bit like Boris Johnson, who is a ******.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: GarTomas on October 10, 2019, 05:57:16 PM
I pay my taxes here.  Some of which go to the EU.
I also paid taxes in the US so reserve the right to talk about Trump.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on October 10, 2019, 06:39:33 PM
Looking around, it's incredible how much support Xia still has. He was a charlatan, a con man if you like, who almost took us into administration yet somehow there's always an excuse for him.
Sounds a bit like Boris Johnson. But at least Xia was removed before he could tip us over the edge.
Says you from France ? Keep politics out of sport unless you pay your taxes here still ?????

Agree. Turncoat c**t.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on October 10, 2019, 06:42:46 PM
Yer.  Butt out.  Castle Vale is well rid of you.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on October 10, 2019, 08:54:22 PM
Looking around, it's incredible how much support Xia still has. He was a charlatan, a con man if you like, who almost took us into administration yet somehow there's always an excuse for him.
Sounds a bit like Boris Johnson. But at least Xia was removed before he could tip us over the edge.
Says you from France ? Keep politics out of sport unless you pay your taxes here still ?????

Wow. Also tell that to Nigel Lawson/Barclay brothers/Ashcroft as well.
Wow Monty , yes I agree with you, it’s not saying anyone can’t have an opinion but unless they are contributing to our country economically their views of our economy  are just diminished in my eyes . And for all I know BE and all those you mention might be contributing hence my question marks .  It’s a bit like Mr Simply Red Mick Hucknall preaching his socialist mantra to us about inequality and what we should be doing whilst domiciled in Italy and paying sweet FA in tax here at the time.

So I suppose you've never said anything about any other country then? Good to know.
Well we both know I have, and I expect it carries about the same weighting 👍
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on October 10, 2019, 09:00:52 PM
Looking around, it's incredible how much support Xia still has. He was a charlatan, a con man if you like, who almost took us into administration yet somehow there's always an excuse for him.
Sounds a bit like Boris Johnson. But at least Xia was removed before he could tip us over the edge.
Says you from France ? Keep politics out of sport unless you pay your taxes here still ?????

I pay my taxes here, can I say it please? Here goes - sounds a bit like Boris Johnson.

I also pay my taxes here. Sounds a bit like Boris Johnson, who is a c***.
In your opinion which you are entitled too , the more you say it the more I like Boris .
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Davkaus on October 10, 2019, 10:20:38 PM
Looking around, it's incredible how much support Xia still has. He was a charlatan, a con man if you like, who almost took us into administration yet somehow there's always an excuse for him.
Sounds a bit like Boris Johnson. But at least Xia was removed before he could tip us over the edge.

Behold the wisdom of the 52%.
Says you from France ? Keep politics out of sport unless you pay your taxes here still ?????

I pay my taxes here, can I say it please? Here goes - sounds a bit like Boris Johnson.

I also pay my taxes here. Sounds a bit like Boris Johnson, who is a c***.
In your opinion which you are entitled too , the more you say it the more I like Boris .
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on October 10, 2019, 11:15:00 PM
Newsnight’s on now. Maybe some of us can talk Villa on here, just an idea?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Bad English on October 11, 2019, 03:01:29 AM
Does paying VAT on purchases such as 'beer' and 'Full English' breakfasts when on holiday in the UK count? If so Boris Johnson = c***. Xia = good riddance.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on October 11, 2019, 08:28:57 AM
I slag off the Le Pens endlessly on the strength of the tax I pay on quantities of wine, cognac and snails I devour in La Belle France.

As for matters Villa, I agree wholeheartedly that Tony Xia was a carpet bagger one small step ahead of the semi detached Sutton Coldfield dwelling entryists who travelled the same road.   However, in an historic sense he fitted perfectly into the ranks of Villa ownership by Bull Ring fishmongers, second hand car dealers and cut price tour bus operators.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on October 11, 2019, 09:16:47 AM
Does paying VAT on purchases such as 'beer' and 'Full English' breakfasts when on holiday in the UK count? If so Boris Johnson = c***. Xia = good riddance.



It depends.  If it's a Full English cooked at home, then there's no VAT on foodstuffs not used in catering, in which case you can keep your goddamn pinko commie trot French views to yourself.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sid1964 on October 11, 2019, 10:26:05 AM
I am not a political person - but Boris is doing exactly what the electorate voted for!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on October 11, 2019, 10:37:40 AM
I am not a political person - but Boris is doing exactly what the electorate voted for!

Jesus. H. Christ.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: West Derby Villan on October 11, 2019, 10:40:45 AM
Rebuild the North Stand
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brend'Watkins on October 11, 2019, 10:41:52 AM
I am not a political person - but Boris is doing exactly what the electorate voted for!

Jesus. H. Christ.

He's right though.  He's not a political person.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on October 11, 2019, 10:56:58 AM
I am not a political person - but Boris is doing exactly what the electorate voted for!

He really isn't he's trying to deliver 1 fairly extreme interpretation of a very close vote. As has been repeated many, many times on the political threads on here there was no clear intention of leaving the Customs Union or Single Market presented during campaigning and there was definitely no one talking about dropping back to WTO trade rules, there was no meaningful discussion on the difficulty of the Irish border and there was no timescale set for this to all happen.


That said, as I mentioned, this has all been discussed in the political threads in off topic and should stay there.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on October 11, 2019, 12:18:59 PM
I am not a political person - but Boris is doing exactly what the electorate voted for!

He really isn't he's trying to deliver 1 fairly extreme interpretation of a very close vote. As has been repeated many, many times on the political threads on here there was no clear intention of leaving the Customs Union or Single Market presented during campaigning and there was definitely no one talking about dropping back to WTO trade rules, there was no meaningful discussion on the difficulty of the Irish border and there was no timescale set for this to all happen.


That said, as I mentioned, this has all been discussed in the political threads in off topic and should stay there.

Well that's a first. Have you just told yourself to shut up?!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on October 11, 2019, 12:24:08 PM
I am not a political person - but Boris is doing exactly what the electorate voted for!

He really isn't he's trying to deliver 1 fairly extreme interpretation of a very close vote. As has been repeated many, many times on the political threads on here there was no clear intention of leaving the Customs Union or Single Market presented during campaigning and there was definitely no one talking about dropping back to WTO trade rules, there was no meaningful discussion on the difficulty of the Irish border and there was no timescale set for this to all happen.


That said, as I mentioned, this has all been discussed in the political threads in off topic and should stay there.

Well that's a first. Have you just told yourself to shut up?!

Pretty much, and tried to nudge Sid to off topic as well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Three Spires Villa on October 11, 2019, 03:04:38 PM
I am not a political person - but Boris is doing exactly what the electorate voted for!

Jesus. H. Christ.

He's right though.  He's not a political person.

Ha ha, quality
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on October 12, 2019, 12:09:48 PM
Looking around, it's incredible how much support Xia still has. He was a charlatan, a con man if you like, who almost took us into administration yet somehow there's always an excuse for him.
Sounds a bit like Boris Johnson. But at least Xia was removed before he could tip us over the edge.
Says you from France ? Keep politics out of sport unless you pay your taxes here still ?????

I pay my taxes here, can I say it please? Here goes - sounds a bit like Boris Johnson.

I also pay my taxes here. Sounds a bit like Boris Johnson, who is a c***.
In your opinion which you are entitled too , the more you say it the more I like Boris .

I’ve had some rows about football over the years but I’ve never really gone off anyone in Heroes Discussion before. I thought Off Topic was where all the bodies were buried.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Bad English on October 12, 2019, 02:15:53 PM
Now that I've got over the initial shock, bemusement, and incredulity, and we've had a laugh and that, I hope that brentastonb6 doesn't come out with that shite about having to pay taxes to have an opinion again. Fucking ludicrous! Get a grip!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: clash city rocker on October 12, 2019, 02:32:08 PM
Well I pay taxes so I am entitled to an opinion on Aston Villa and as things stand I am not too disappointed at our progress so far under the new owners .
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TopDeck113 on October 12, 2019, 02:38:12 PM
What next? Only members of the Taxpayers' f-ing Alliance allowed to comment on the Villa? Jeez.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 12, 2019, 02:54:20 PM
Taxes are for little people.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on October 12, 2019, 02:55:19 PM
I am not a political person - but Boris is doing exactly what the electorate voted for!

Jesus. H. Christ.

He's right though.  He's not a political person.
😁😁😁
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on October 12, 2019, 04:43:01 PM
I'm interested in just how much tax Brent actually pays. Can we subpoena his returns so they can be publicly scrutinised and we can establish his eligibility to comment from there?

For the purpose of clarity I should disclose that I had a rebate from HMRC last year so I'm less entitled than anybody to have an opinion on anything at all, never mind the Villa. Probably just as well.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on October 12, 2019, 04:52:56 PM
I am interested in exactly when and why this thread became a political thread.

However, I am not interested enough to trawl back through the pages to find out.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on October 12, 2019, 05:00:42 PM
Brent said BE wasn't allowed to say anything about our esteemed Prime Minister because he (BE) doesn't pay tax in Britain.

As my fourteen year is so fond of saying - whilst rolling his eyes - "I know, right?"

I wonder how much UK tax Wes Edens pays, and whether he's allowed an opinion on BoJo. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this Brent?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on October 12, 2019, 05:51:16 PM
Is he the same Brent as that one from the Slough of despond.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on October 12, 2019, 10:13:56 PM
Now that I've got over the initial shock, bemusement, and incredulity, and we've had a laugh and that, I hope that brentastonb6 doesn't come out with that shite about having to pay taxes to have an opinion again. Fucking ludicrous! Get a grip!
Thanks Chummy but I had a total grip when I said what I said thanks . Boris is the current leader of the country and hopefully one who will give us the opportunity to grow  without constraint . In your  opinion you think he’s taking us over the abyss (you sound like most of the remoaning neigh sayers who think the world will stop spinning should we leave the ailing EU but that’s a bit strange as you obviously opted not to remain here yourself)
  In my opinion he isn’t but then like yours it’s just my opinion. No one said you can’t have an opinion only that your opinion from France is just that - words . What are you doing to currently improve our country from a foreign land ?  taxes on this occasion was my reference point as that’s what allows us to spend, invest and hopefully improve everybody’s life.
So thanks for your advice but I choose the counsel I  take and I certainly don’t take it from you.


Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on October 12, 2019, 10:28:36 PM
Is it possible to keep the politics to off topic? Don't get me wrong, I like a good argument about politics as the next person, but there's a place and a time, and that's "off topic" and "after you click 'off topic'"
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on October 12, 2019, 10:29:08 PM
Brent said BE wasn't allowed to say anything about our esteemed Prime Minister because he (BE) doesn't pay tax in Britain.

As my fourteen year is so fond of saying - whilst rolling his eyes - "I know, right?"

I wonder how much UK tax Wes Edens pays, and whether he's allowed an opinion on BoJo. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this Brent?
[quote author=Rodders link=topic=58778.msg3658762#msg3658762 date=1570896042
Brent said BE wasn't allowed to say anything about our esteemed Prime Minister because he (BE) doesn't pay tax in Britain.

As my fourteen year is so fond of saying - whilst rolling his eyes - "I know, right?"

I wonder how much UK tax Wes Edens pays, and whether he's allowed an opinion on BoJo. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this Brent?
[/quote]

Well Rodders my thoughts on this are : Both our owners are currently putting money into our club and our local economy, their investment has increased our gates as we are successful, we’ll be using more matchday staff as a result of this and possibly/ probably throughout the club , they are taken from our locality so helping with employment in our region , they’ll also be paying taxes through PAYE like all our club’s colleagues should they pass through the tax threshold.
Hopefully they’ll  be extending/ improving / rebuilding our ground thus generating even more employment and taxation.
Does that answer your question?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on October 12, 2019, 10:32:51 PM
Is it possible to keep the politics to off topic? Don't get me wrong, I like a good argument about politics as the next person, but there's a place and a time, and that's "off topic" and "after you click 'off topic'"
👍
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on October 12, 2019, 10:34:32 PM
Why didn't Thatcher take that penalty at Arsenal?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on October 12, 2019, 10:36:49 PM
Is he the same Brent as that one from the Slough of despond.
No, this one is made here in Birmingham thanks 👍
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on October 12, 2019, 10:38:26 PM
Why didn't Thatcher take that penalty at Arsenal?
Denis wouldn’t let her ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: themossman on October 12, 2019, 10:59:34 PM
Neigh sayers? Why the long face?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on October 12, 2019, 11:18:09 PM
Thanks for responding Brent. As a son of Shropshire who thinks that Darwin was talking out of his arse and that it is mutual aid rather than competition that is key to the evolution of any species, whilst I agree that NSWE's investment does and - I hope we all hope - will continue to contribute to the economy both in B6 and nationally, what I asked was whether Wes Edens, not a UK citizen, shouldn't be allowed to voice his opinion on our Prime Minister as he is not resident here and therefore doesn't pay UK taxes?

I'm not saying he has or he should, but if he wanted to would he in your opinion have the right to do so?

What if he did so from the lobby of the as-yet unproposed and unbuilt hotel behind the North Stand? It would belong to him and stand on ground that he owns and yet he doesn't pay income tax in the UK (as far as we know).

I realise that this is the sort of equivocating that got the Jesuits into a great deal of trouble, but I am genuinely interested and hope that it is at least partially on topic.

The £57m share conversion that has sparked the recent resurrection of this thread will eventually be subject to indirect taxation, partially through the likes of me, who had a tax rebate last year, and Bad English or indeed Wes Edens, who don't contribute via PAYE either, enjoying and being taxed on a Balti Pie and pint of Heineken at Villa Park. But according to your logic we would apparently not be entitled to voice our opinion on Great Britain's First Lord of the Treasury with a mouth full of Pukka pastry and, gasp, FOREIGN beer made by nondom Euro types in Holland (unless it's that rank "brewed under licence" shite from Edinburgh).

Whilst I do get your drift, even when people don't pay PAYE or hand over a cheque when their P60 arrives they - we! - are still being heavily taxed on pretty much everything else we do.

Where would it end? If Scotland secede from the Union would John McGinn be allowed to voice his opinion?

Your thoughts?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on October 12, 2019, 11:20:44 PM
Actually, sod it.

Back to the hotel. Claret walls and blue bed sheets in the rooms or vice versa?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on October 12, 2019, 11:39:30 PM
Actually, sod it.

Back to the hotel. Claret walls and blue bed sheets in the rooms or vice versa?
You choose, it’s all about opinions isn’t it ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Bad English on October 13, 2019, 08:35:16 AM
Now that I've got over the initial shock, bemusement, and incredulity, and we've had a laugh and that, I hope that brentastonb6 doesn't come out with that shite about having to pay taxes to have an opinion again. Fucking ludicrous! Get a grip!
Thanks Chummy but I had a total grip when I said what I said thanks . Boris is the current leader of the country and hopefully one who will give us the opportunity to grow  without constraint . In your  opinion you think he’s taking us over the abyss (you sound like most of the remoaning neigh sayers who think the world will stop spinning should we leave the ailing EU but that’s a bit strange as you obviously opted not to remain here yourself)
  In my opinion he isn’t but then like yours it’s just my opinion. No one said you can’t have an opinion only that your opinion from France is just that - words . What are you doing to currently improve our country from a foreign land ?  taxes on this occasion was my reference point as that’s what allows us to spend, invest and hopefully improve everybody’s life.
So thanks for your advice but I choose the counsel I  take and I certainly don’t take it from you.
Spectacularly insular, small-minded, apes the language of Trump, level of debate as high as a daisy.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Axl Rose on October 13, 2019, 08:43:38 AM
Now that I've got over the initial shock, bemusement, and incredulity, and we've had a laugh and that, I hope that brentastonb6 doesn't come out with that shite about having to pay taxes to have an opinion again. Fucking ludicrous! Get a grip!
Thanks Chummy but I had a total grip when I said what I said thanks . Boris is the current leader of the country and hopefully one who will give us the opportunity to grow  without constraint . In your  opinion you think he’s taking us over the abyss (you sound like most of the remoaning neigh sayers who think the world will stop spinning should we leave the ailing EU but that’s a bit strange as you obviously opted not to remain here yourself)
  In my opinion he isn’t but then like yours it’s just my opinion. No one said you can’t have an opinion only that your opinion from France is just that - words . What are you doing to currently improve our country from a foreign land ?  taxes on this occasion was my reference point as that’s what allows us to spend, invest and hopefully improve everybody’s life.
So thanks for your advice but I choose the counsel I  take and I certainly don’t take it from you.
Spectacularly insular, small-minded, apes the language of Trump, level of debate as high as a daisy.

And an utter ****** to boot.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Axl Rose on October 13, 2019, 08:44:26 AM
Ah, shit, I don't pay taxes in the UK, either.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: thick_mike on October 13, 2019, 08:54:53 AM
Now that I've got over the initial shock, bemusement, and incredulity, and we've had a laugh and that, I hope that brentastonb6 doesn't come out with that shite about having to pay taxes to have an opinion again. Fucking ludicrous! Get a grip!
Thanks Chummy but I had a total grip when I said what I said thanks . Boris is the current leader of the country and hopefully one who will give us the opportunity to grow  without constraint . In your  opinion you think he’s taking us over the abyss (you sound like most of the remoaning neigh sayers who think the world will stop spinning should we leave the ailing EU but that’s a bit strange as you obviously opted not to remain here yourself)
  In my opinion he isn’t but then like yours it’s just my opinion. No one said you can’t have an opinion only that your opinion from France is just that - words . What are you doing to currently improve our country from a foreign land ?  taxes on this occasion was my reference point as that’s what allows us to spend, invest and hopefully improve everybody’s life.
So thanks for your advice but I choose the counsel I  take and I certainly don’t take it from you.
Spectacularly insular, small-minded, apes the language of Trump, level of debate as high as a daisy.

 BE is affected by this whole situation far more than most UK citizens. He’s had to change his nationality so he can stay with his family because of this referendum. If you are patriotic in any way bab6, let that sink in.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on October 13, 2019, 09:44:56 AM
It's like when Americans say to me on Twitter that I can't have an opinion on Trump because I don't live there. The stupidity seems to be spreading.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on October 13, 2019, 09:50:35 AM
Now that I've got over the initial shock, bemusement, and incredulity, and we've had a laugh and that, I hope that brentastonb6 doesn't come out with that shite about having to pay taxes to have an opinion again. Fucking ludicrous! Get a grip!
Thanks Chummy but I had a total grip when I said what I said thanks . Boris is the current leader of the country and hopefully one who will give us the opportunity to grow  without constraint . In your  opinion you think he’s taking us over the abyss (you sound like most of the remoaning neigh sayers who think the world will stop spinning should we leave the ailing EU but that’s a bit strange as you obviously opted not to remain here yourself)
  In my opinion he isn’t but then like yours it’s just my opinion. No one said you can’t have an opinion only that your opinion from France is just that - words . What are you doing to currently improve our country from a foreign land ?  taxes on this occasion was my reference point as that’s what allows us to spend, invest and hopefully improve everybody’s life.
So thanks for your advice but I choose the counsel I  take and I certainly don’t take it from you.
Spectacularly insular, small-minded, apes the language of Trump, level of debate as high as a daisy.

 BE is affected by this whole situation far more than most UK citizens. He’s had to change his nationality so he can stay with his family because of this referendum. If you are patriotic in any way bab6, let that sink in.
What about the villa though?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on October 13, 2019, 09:51:56 AM
FFS, there are umpteen threads in Off Topic for this.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Stu on October 13, 2019, 10:26:56 AM
FFS, there are umpteen threads in Off Topic for this.

Shut up, chummy
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: thick_mike on October 13, 2019, 10:41:47 AM
Gah! Didn’t realise we are in HD, I just look at New Posts.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Bad English on October 13, 2019, 10:47:55 AM
FFS, there are umpteen threads in Off Topic for this.

Shut up, chummy
If you are not a Golden Muppet kindly refrain from commenting.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: themossman on October 13, 2019, 11:11:38 AM
I pay tax in the UK and GM subs ... so is it OK to add that I think boris and brentaston are both massive ******?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 13, 2019, 11:12:13 AM
Sweet baby jesus and the orphans, can we stop this fucking brexit / 'Boris' bollocks here, please?

Please just take it to OT.

There's no escape from it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on October 13, 2019, 11:52:10 AM
Ah, shit, I don't pay taxes in the UK, either.


As H&V's official Japanese Envoy we are still waiting for a full and frank apology from you regarding the disruption of the Rugby World Cup fixtures.  ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Axl Rose on October 13, 2019, 12:06:23 PM
Ah, shit, I don't pay taxes in the UK, either.


As H&V's official Japanese Envoy we are still waiting for a full and frank apology from you regarding the disruption of the Rugby World Cup fixtures.  ;)

台風に対する謝罪を受け入れてください
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on October 13, 2019, 01:29:02 PM
At work they sent round a Liverpool corporate thingy (as work are members apparently) and they have some packages they charge £700 for which seems crazy.

Looking at what we are averaging at the moment, 41,600, even if that stays the same (and I think it will increase with away sidea selling out) we will only make another million on last season.

Expanding to 52,000 with another 10,000 without corporate would be circa £6m per annum extra.

Shows where we're short on competing with others long term.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 13, 2019, 01:43:52 PM
At work they sent round a Liverpool corporate thingy (as work are members apparently) and they have some packages they charge £700 for which seems crazy.

Looking at what we are averaging at the moment, 41,600, even if that stays the same (and I think it will increase with away sidea selling out) we will only make another million on last season.

Expanding to 52,000 with another 10,000 without corporate would be circa £6m per annum extra.

Shows where we're short on competing with others long term.

Providing all ends well and we stay up which I absolutely believe we will, the corporate revenue side of the business will need to be looked at and radical progressive changes made. In fact I’m sure it is already with plans being made to significantly accelerate the growth of that stream. From kit manufacturers, sponsors, ways to broaden the clubs reach into new markets and of course how to increase revenue on match day through current activities and long term better utilization of the ground.

Villa Park, like White Hart Lane or Goodison, all very traditional football stadia, are all limited by what can be generated. Spurs will have increased that considerably now, and Everton will do the same in the coming years as their new ground is built. Our new owners will keep investing but we also need to keep up ourselves and becoming financially self serving. Today, in that regard we are a long way behind a number of the established PL sides like West Ham or Leicester before we even get to the top 6 sides. To truly break into that group we need to consider every option to take the required leap forward.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on October 13, 2019, 02:03:33 PM
At work they sent round a Liverpool corporate thingy (as work are members apparently) and they have some packages they charge £700 for which seems crazy.

Looking at what we are averaging at the moment, 41,600, even if that stays the same (and I think it will increase with away sidea selling out) we will only make another million on last season.

Expanding to 52,000 with another 10,000 without corporate would be circa £6m per annum extra.

Shows where we're short on competing with others long term.

Not sure if I'm missing something here.  If we average nearly 6,000 more than last season, that brings an extra million.  However, if we average 16,000 more than last season then it nets us 6 million?

On a side note, all corporate packages appear to be sold out on the club website so again, it  is something that could be looked at if the NS is rebuilt.  Going on what Purslow said recently, it's more likely that the corners would be filled, rather than a new stand built.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on October 13, 2019, 03:31:04 PM
On an average of £30 per ticket across 19 games at 41600 is circa £23.7m.

Averaging 33,000 across 23 games is circa £22.7m.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on October 13, 2019, 03:43:08 PM
At work they sent round a Liverpool corporate thingy (as work are members apparently) and they have some packages they charge £700 for which seems crazy.

Looking at what we are averaging at the moment, 41,600, even if that stays the same (and I think it will increase with away sidea selling out) we will only make another million on last season.

Expanding to 52,000 with another 10,000 without corporate would be circa £6m per annum extra.

Shows where we're short on competing with others long term.

Not sure if I'm missing something here.  If we average nearly 6,000 more than last season, that brings an extra million.  However, if we average 16,000 more than last season then it nets us 6 million?

On a side note, all corporate packages appear to be sold out on the club website so again, it  is something that could be looked at if the NS is rebuilt.  Going on what Purslow said recently, it's more likely that the corners would be filled, rather than a new stand built.
I don't think just infilling the corners would be viable because the massive pillars holding up the NS roof would cause a huge obstruction so to remove those would mean removing the whole roof. Knocking the whole stand down and rebuilding it would make much more sense.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on October 13, 2019, 03:44:01 PM
At work they sent round a Liverpool corporate thingy (as work are members apparently) and they have some packages they charge £700 for which seems crazy.

Looking at what we are averaging at the moment, 41,600, even if that stays the same (and I think it will increase with away sidea selling out) we will only make another million on last season.

Expanding to 52,000 with another 10,000 without corporate would be circa £6m per annum extra.

Shows where we're short on competing with others long term.

Not sure if I'm missing something here.  If we average nearly 6,000 more than last season, that brings an extra million.  However, if we average 16,000 more than last season then it nets us 6 million?

On a side note, all corporate packages appear to be sold out on the club website so again, it  is something that could be looked at if the NS is rebuilt.  Going on what Purslow said recently, it's more likely that the corners would be filled, rather than a new stand built.
I don't think just infilling the corners would be viable because the massive pillars holding up the NS roof would cause a huge obstruction so to remove those would mean removing the whole roof. Knocking the whole stand down and rebuilding it would make much more sense.

Purslow (I think it was him) said very recently that they have planning permission to fill in the corners.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on October 13, 2019, 03:45:03 PM
On an average of £30 per ticket across 19 games at 41600 is circa £23.7m.

Averaging 33,000 across 23 games is circa £22.7m.

Of course - There are more games in the Championship.  Got it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on October 13, 2019, 03:57:01 PM
At work they sent round a Liverpool corporate thingy (as work are members apparently) and they have some packages they charge £700 for which seems crazy.

Looking at what we are averaging at the moment, 41,600, even if that stays the same (and I think it will increase with away sidea selling out) we will only make another million on last season.

Expanding to 52,000 with another 10,000 without corporate would be circa £6m per annum extra.

Shows where we're short on competing with others long term.

Not sure if I'm missing something here.  If we average nearly 6,000 more than last season, that brings an extra million.  However, if we average 16,000 more than last season then it nets us 6 million?

On a side note, all corporate packages appear to be sold out on the club website so again, it  is something that could be looked at if the NS is rebuilt.  Going on what Purslow said recently, it's more likely that the corners would be filled, rather than a new stand built.
I don't think just infilling the corners would be viable because the massive pillars holding up the NS roof would cause a huge obstruction so to remove those would mean removing the whole roof. Knocking the whole stand down and rebuilding it would make much more sense.

Purslow (I think it was him) said very recently that they have planning permission to fill in the corners.
Yes i did read that but the massive pillars would would definitely have to go. That would mean a whole new roof. A very expensive and challenging thing to do.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on October 13, 2019, 04:16:44 PM
The next major work on the North Stand will be demolition.

It makes no sense using any of the existing structure.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Pat Mustard on October 13, 2019, 05:09:26 PM
Isn’t there some rule on seating now, meaning that if we build a new stand from scratch the seats have to be wider, more exits etc? I’m pretty sure that the new stand at Anfield was built as an extension to the existing stand for that reason - it maybe that expanding the existing stand offers more scope to increase the capacity. I do agree on the roof though, it would be a hell of a job to remove it but can’t see anyway of it working without a new roof.

Thinking about it, isn’t that what they have done to the away end at Bramall Lane?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on October 13, 2019, 05:29:41 PM
Isn’t there some rule on seating now, meaning that if we build a new stand from scratch the seats have to be wider, more exits etc? I’m pretty sure that the new stand at Anfield was built as an extension to the existing stand for that reason - it maybe that expanding the existing stand offers more scope to increase the capacity. I do agree on the roof though, it would be a hell of a job to remove it but can’t see anyway of it working without a new roof.

Thinking about it, isn’t that what they have done to the away end at Bramall Lane?
A bigger and better stand with extra legroom and more exits would be exactly the way to go. I sat in the upper North last season for the first time in years. I'd forgotten just how appallingly cramped and uncomfortabe it was. It has no place in the premier league anymore.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dogtanian on October 13, 2019, 05:36:58 PM
I remember on a tour of Villa Park being told that the North stand is so solidly built you could build a block of flats on the roof.  Maybe that’s the plan for the hotel.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Bad English on October 13, 2019, 07:16:05 PM
There is more legroom on a TAP Portugal flight, which is saying something. Demolish and build something awesome please!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 13, 2019, 10:36:22 PM
There is more legroom on a TAP Portugal flight, which is saying something. Demolish and build something awesome please!

I like TAP, probably used them 15 times the last four years.

Depends if you’re on one of their upgraded planes with the Recaro seats or not.

I always used to pay the £22 for extra legroom. Although I was actually not the one paying which made it easier.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: b23 on October 13, 2019, 11:03:58 PM
Looking around, it's incredible how much support Xia still has. He was a charlatan, a con man if you like, who almost took us into administration yet somehow there's always an excuse for him.

🤣🤣🤣

Charlatan...con man 🤣🤣🤣

Who warns the Warnee ??? 🤣🤣🤣
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on October 13, 2019, 11:54:56 PM
10 emojis in one post? Gadzooks man!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on October 15, 2019, 09:26:44 PM
Now that I've got over the initial shock, bemusement, and incredulity, and we've had a laugh and that, I hope that brentastonb6 doesn't come out with that shite about having to pay taxes to have an opinion again. Fucking ludicrous! Get a grip!
Thanks Chummy but I had a total grip when I said what I said thanks . Boris is the current leader of the country and hopefully one who will give us the opportunity to grow  without constraint . In your  opinion you think he’s taking us over the abyss (you sound like most of the remoaning neigh sayers who think the world will stop spinning should we leave the ailing EU but that’s a bit strange as you obviously opted not to remain here yourself)
  In my opinion he isn’t but then like yours it’s just my opinion. No one said you can’t have an opinion only that your opinion from France is just that - words . What are you doing to currently improve our country from a foreign land ?  taxes on this occasion was my reference point as that’s what allows us to spend, invest and hopefully improve everybody’s life.
So thanks for your advice but I choose the counsel I  take and I certainly don’t take it from you.
Spectacularly insular, small-minded, apes the language of Trump, level of debate as high as a daisy.
So someone who disagrees with you /  is prepared to suggest coming out of what was supposed to be economic union is insular ? I think you must have a very high opinion of yourself and your own debating skills.  Interesting comparison to Trump mind you.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on October 15, 2019, 09:31:45 PM
I pay tax in the UK and GM subs ... so is it OK to add that I think boris and brentaston are both massive c***s?
Please feel free to say to my face what you’re brave enough to ‘think’ from your keypad .
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KevinGage on October 15, 2019, 09:44:31 PM
It's an interesting train of thought, only being able to comment on a country's affairs as a bonafide rate payer in said nation.

Who will police this brave new world?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on October 15, 2019, 10:02:32 PM
It's an interesting train of thought, only being able to comment on a country's affairs as a bonafide rate payer in said nation.

Who will police this brave new world?
I don’t recall actually saying that people couldn’t comment if they didn’t pay their taxes in said country . I’m happy to be corrected if that’s the case . I raised the question of a person outside of a country and not directly contributing to it’s wellbeing ( through taxes ) criticising someone on the inside who is. It’s not censorship it’s opinion and that’s what forums are for . A bit like people who are continual critics of any said football team but have never set foot inside said stadium and put their money where their mouth is even if only occasionally.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Bad English on October 15, 2019, 10:10:36 PM
Johnson is a c*** and Xia is a charlatan. It's great to have NSWE on board.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on October 15, 2019, 10:15:39 PM
Boris is a c*** and Xia is a charlatan. It's great to have NWSE on board.
I actually agree on two of those and sincerely hope you are completely f#@king wrong with third .
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Bad English on October 15, 2019, 10:22:42 PM
If you can provide your tax returns for China, Egypt and the US I will read your comment.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: purpletrousers on October 15, 2019, 10:27:17 PM
It’s the hope that kills you.

(Or those depending on a health system with an escalating staffing crisis due to Tory policies (glossing over austerity pillaged social care etc etc).

Btw I don’t pay taxes in America or Uganda, just querying whether I’m allowed by your guidelines to criticise those that do pay taxes there?

Btw most of my friends in Ug don’t pay income tax and my visas are relatively expensive, so that one might need thinking through a wee bit more. Am I allowed to criticise them more or less?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Stu on October 15, 2019, 10:31:09 PM
I pay tax in the UK and GM subs ... so is it OK to add that I think boris and brentaston are both massive c***s?
Please feel free to say to my face what you’re brave enough to ‘think’ from your keypad .

Keypad! Grandad's been at the mild again.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on October 15, 2019, 10:36:11 PM
If you can provide your tax returns for China, Egypt and the US I will read your comment.
You did and I will.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Bad English on October 15, 2019, 10:41:49 PM
Brent mate. All these posts will echo in eternity. This is your legacy.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on October 15, 2019, 11:01:13 PM
Brent mate. All these posts will echo in eternity. This is your legacy.
That’s fine by me. I give it and can take it. I hope Boris has two great terms in office like he did as mayor of London then I’ll look you up. Likewise if he gets shot down in flames I’m happy to don the tin hat.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on October 15, 2019, 11:09:34 PM
Brent mate. All these posts will echo in eternity. This is your legacy.
That’s fine by me. I give it and can take it. I hope Boris has two great terms in office like he did as mayor of London then I’ll look you up. Likewise if he gets shot down in flames I’m happy to don the tin hat.

I don't really want to get involved but you're going to need to provide some evidence for those 2 great terms in office as Mayor.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Bad English on October 15, 2019, 11:31:21 PM
Brent mate. All these posts will echo in eternity. This is your legacy.
That’s fine by me. I give it and can take it. I hope Boris has two great terms in office like he did as mayor of London then I’ll look you up. Likewise if he gets shot down in flames I’m happy to don the tin hat.
If 'giving it' is your bollocks about not commenting if you don't pay taxes in the UK then you won't need to 'take it' any more as you will be ignored forthwith.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on October 15, 2019, 11:32:34 PM
Brent mate. All these posts will echo in eternity. This is your legacy.
That’s fine by me. I give it and can take it. I hope Boris has two great terms in office like he did as mayor of London then I’ll look you up. Likewise if he gets shot down in flames I’m happy to don the tin hat.

I don't really want to get involved but you're going to need to provide some evidence for those 2 great terms in office as Mayor.
I suppose I’d have to say to be voted in for the second term in office he must have had to be pretty good in his first one ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 15, 2019, 11:35:59 PM
Brent mate. All these posts will echo in eternity. This is your legacy.
That’s fine by me. I give it and can take it. I hope Boris has two great terms in office like he did as mayor of London then I’ll look you up. Likewise if he gets shot down in flames I’m happy to don the tin hat.

I don't really want to get involved but you're going to need to provide some evidence for those 2 great terms in office as Mayor.
I suppose I’d have to say to be voted in for the second term in office he must have had to be pretty good in his first one ?

As was Ken Livingstone, who I think was a decent mayor. I'm sure you'll join me in agreeing that they're both equally great.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on October 15, 2019, 11:38:10 PM
Brent mate. All these posts will echo in eternity. This is your legacy.
That’s fine by me. I give it and can take it. I hope Boris has two great terms in office like he did as mayor of London then I’ll look you up. Likewise if he gets shot down in flames I’m happy to don the tin hat.
If 'giving it' is your bollocks about not commenting if you don't pay taxes in the UK then you won't need to 'take it' any more as you will be ignored forthwith.
Obviously Touche
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on October 15, 2019, 11:39:45 PM
Brent mate. All these posts will echo in eternity. This is your legacy.
That’s fine by me. I give it and can take it. I hope Boris has two great terms in office like he did as mayor of London then I’ll look you up. Likewise if he gets shot down in flames I’m happy to don the tin hat.

I don't really want to get involved but you're going to need to provide some evidence for those 2 great terms in office as Mayor.
I suppose I’d have to say to be voted in for the second term in office he must have had to be pretty good in his first one ?

As was Ken Livingstone, who I think was a decent mayor. I'm sure you'll join me in agreeing that they're both equally great.
I will have to concur using the same rationale and also accept that both aren’t everyone’s cup of tea.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 15, 2019, 11:43:23 PM
Brent mate. All these posts will echo in eternity. This is your legacy.
That’s fine by me. I give it and can take it. I hope Boris has two great terms in office like he did as mayor of London then I’ll look you up. Likewise if he gets shot down in flames I’m happy to don the tin hat.

I don't really want to get involved but you're going to need to provide some evidence for those 2 great terms in office as Mayor.
I suppose I’d have to say to be voted in for the second term in office he must have had to be pretty good in his first one ?

As was Ken Livingstone, who I think was a decent mayor. I'm sure you'll join me in agreeing that they're both equally great.
I will have to concur using the same rationale and also accept that both aren’t everyone’s cup of tea.

Well I guess there's at least a degree of balance in your admiration for both an anti-Semite and an Islamophobe.

I'm not being entirely serious with that comment but I think you may be over excited.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on October 16, 2019, 04:10:19 PM
I'm confused.

As our investors over the past umpteen years have all been foreigners, am I allowed to comment on them? In fact, are they allowed to invest?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mike on October 16, 2019, 05:18:44 PM
As one of Birmingham’s more marmite sons points out, which bit is there not to like about Boris Piccaniny-Watermelon-Letterbox Bumboys Vampires Haircu-Wall Spaffer-Fuck Business-Get off My Fucking Laptop-Girly Swot-Big Girls Blouse-Chicken Frit-Hulk Smash Noseringed Crusties Death Humbug-Johnson.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 16, 2019, 06:14:57 PM
It's like when Americans say to me on Twitter that I can't have an opinion on Trump because I don't live there. The stupidity seems to be spreading.

Stupidity does appear to be a particularly virulent virus in the last few years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on October 16, 2019, 07:39:54 PM
I'm confused.

As our investors over the past umpteen years have all been foreigners, am I allowed to comment on them? In fact, are they allowed to invest?
Yes and double yes.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Border villan on October 16, 2019, 10:19:43 PM
It must be time to move on from this circular argument and post on the actual investment theme.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 17, 2019, 09:26:45 AM
It must be time to move on from this circular argument and post on the actual investment theme.

I agree, if the politics back and forth goes on, we'll just lock it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 17, 2019, 01:23:09 PM
I think the biggest difference between our current guys and the Lerner era is that

1/ These had a current and very strong business background - Randy inherited Dads money and screwed most things up afterwards - and not just with the Villa
2/ Randy's heart was in the right place but poor Managerial decisions was his demise - NSWE built from the bottom up and put an infrastructure in place that has already started to reap rewards.
3/ They seem to attract professional kudos amongst their peers and the way they circumnavigated their way around FFP was quite amazing
4/ Their business acumen is across so many different disciplines from marketing to media to sports that you just feel confident they are here to succeed and they seemingly will.

And I am just as sure that when the day comes to redevelop the ground they will do it properly and not based on the deal they can get for concrete.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on October 17, 2019, 01:32:33 PM
Is it me or has Purslow been incredibly quiet since the season started?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Border villan on October 17, 2019, 01:39:35 PM
Is it me or has Purslow been incredibly quiet since the season started?
Hopefully this is part of the overall club ethos. We no longer feature frequently in the press for all the wrong reasons as often happened over the last decade with the various exploits some of our players indulged in.
Between matches the club gets on with its work in a quiet, considered and grown up manner. I hope we continue in this way.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on October 17, 2019, 03:17:42 PM
There looks to have been a big turnover of staff internally too. On and off the pitch the club is improving.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 17, 2019, 03:33:37 PM
I am pretty sure they will get the off the pitch stuff right too.
Taking Hookeys point, I think we have people who actually know what they are doing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 17, 2019, 04:11:12 PM
I am pretty sure they will get the off the pitch stuff right too.
Taking Hookeys point, I think we have people who actually know what they are doing.

Agree, by and large, but some signs of old problems persisting - not managing to sort the shirts out for a start (ie people wanting to buy them but unable to, and then when they finally get them, they fall apart on being washed), the mess over membership packs too .
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 17, 2019, 04:14:28 PM
I am pretty sure they will get the off the pitch stuff right too.
Taking Hookeys point, I think we have people who actually know what they are doing.

Agree, by and large, but some signs of old problems persisting - not managing to sort the shirts out for a start (ie people wanting to buy them but unable to, and then when they finally get them, they fall apart on being washed), the mess over membership packs too .
Agree, I would be surprised if these problems persist but they should have been sorted out by now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Three Spires Villa on October 17, 2019, 04:57:38 PM
Is it me or has Purslow been incredibly quiet since the season started?
Hopefully this is part of the overall club ethos. We no longer feature frequently in the press for all the wrong reasons as often happened over the last decade with the various exploits some of our players indulged in.
Between matches the club gets on with its work in a quiet, considered and grown up manner. I hope we continue in this way.

Absolutely, spot on
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on October 17, 2019, 05:07:49 PM
I am pretty sure they will get the off the pitch stuff right too.
Taking Hookeys point, I think we have people who actually know what they are doing.

Agree, by and large, but some signs of old problems persisting - not managing to sort the shirts out for a start (ie people wanting to buy them but unable to, and then when they finally get them, they fall apart on being washed), the mess over membership packs too .
Agree, I would be surprised if these problems persist but they should have been sorted out by now.

This isn't something they can truly sort before next summer though. Whatever they choose to do to remedy it will be meaningless until next July when they either get it right or fuck it up again, fixing the stocking and delivery of shirts or improving the quality of the shirts being produced now is largely irrelevant because good quality shirts being available when people want to but them is the real issue.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on October 18, 2019, 10:21:57 AM
I am pretty sure they will get the off the pitch stuff right too.
Taking Hookeys point, I think we have people who actually know what they are doing.

Agree, by and large, but some signs of old problems persisting - not managing to sort the shirts out for a start (ie people wanting to buy them but unable to, and then when they finally get them, they fall apart on being washed), the mess over membership packs too .
Agree, I would be surprised if these problems persist but they should have been sorted out by now.

This isn't something they can truly sort before next summer though. Whatever they choose to do to remedy it will be meaningless until next July when they either get it right or fuck it up again, fixing the stocking and delivery of shirts or improving the quality of the shirts being produced now is largely irrelevant because good quality shirts being available when people want to but them is the real issue.
I agree with all the points above. As for the kit/ leisurewear /memberships packs problems i'd like to think they are waiting for the new facilities to be built before hopefully getting all such issues ironed out in one fell swoop.New facilities, new ideas, new system, new recruits. It all takes time. These guys are at the top of their game and i believe that given time Aston Villa Football Club will be running like a Rolls Royce both on and off the pitch.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 12, 2020, 08:14:06 PM
Another £17m into the club via a share issue.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03375789/filing-history
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: charleeco7 on February 12, 2020, 09:24:18 PM
Another £17m into the club via a share issue.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03375789/filing-history



Being a bit dim with regards such thing, my question is why?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 12, 2020, 09:46:24 PM
That's 142m to 374m in a year and a half.

Impressive. 232m between them.

The best way to become a millionaire in football really is to start as a billionaire.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on February 12, 2020, 09:48:23 PM
Another £17m into the club via a share issue.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03375789/filing-history



Being a bit dim with regards such thing, my question is why?

The club loses money so the cash has got to come from somewhere.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 12, 2020, 09:52:22 PM
Another £17m into the club via a share issue.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03375789/filing-history



Being a bit dim with regards such thing, my question is why?

The club loses money so the cash has got to come from somewhere.
They could loan it but this shows commitment.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on February 12, 2020, 09:59:59 PM
Another £17m into the club via a share issue.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03375789/filing-history



Being a bit dim with regards such thing, my question is why?

The club loses money so the cash has got to come from somewhere.
They could loan it but this shows commitment.

A loan would carry interest which I'm guessing would count against us for FFP.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: charleeco7 on February 12, 2020, 10:03:10 PM
So it’s a means of just propping is up then? Not a great business model in the long run.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: DB on February 12, 2020, 10:05:45 PM
Not many football clubs have a good business model
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 12, 2020, 10:24:55 PM
So it’s a means of just propping is up then? Not a great business model in the long run.

Good! It's football, I'd like to see two multibillionaires brought to their penniless knees through an interminable quest for our galactic domination.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: langleylions on February 12, 2020, 11:17:11 PM
forgive my nieviety , but why is it everytime our owners put money in or whatever its always reported as some kind of negative thing that they are propping us up ,  1 . i thought the playoff finsl was worth 170 mill or is that more sky bullshit hype ? so we aint even spent that yet !! 2 . why are wolves / everton w/ west ham these kind of clubs not reported as " needing investment every fucking month its a joke ....wolves get 30 k we get 41 k both got equslly rich owners so  how can it be just us sll the time that is on the edge ??????
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 13, 2020, 06:15:19 AM
We have owners that have made substantial investment and are strengthening the balance sheet.
The negative stuff is the mis management of this club by its previous owners.
What these guys are doing Investment wise is beyond criticism in my opinion.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sid1964 on February 13, 2020, 06:52:22 AM
Instead of guess the crowd - we ought to run a competition for guess the amount that we have lost in the last season - my guess is £60 million

Just out of interest if these 2 guys decided to sell the club - then the amount that they have invested and brought the club for - would this be what they reckon that the club is worth? - if it was then there are not many people who could afford to buy the club?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 13, 2020, 07:23:51 AM
Instead of guess the crowd - we ought to run a competition for guess the amount that we have lost in the last season - my guess is £60 million

Just out of interest if these 2 guys decided to sell the club - then the amount that they have invested and brought the club for - would this be what they reckon that the club is worth? - if it was then there are not many people who could afford to buy the club?
Something is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it, that never changes.
Lerner bought and  Invested lots more than he sold it for.
Normal commercial valuation formula goes out the window when buying/ selling  a football club.
Businesses are usually sold for a multiple of profitability EBITDA, sometimes Revenue and sometimes Gross Profit. Not football clubs though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Border villan on February 13, 2020, 02:07:32 PM
We all know that the value of AVFC is beyond the dreams of avarice.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 13, 2020, 03:22:00 PM
Another £17m into the club via a share issue.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03375789/filing-history



Being a bit dim with regards such thing, my question is why?

The club loses money so the cash has got to come from somewhere.
They could loan it but this shows commitment.

A loan would carry interest which I'm guessing would count against us for FFP.

Unless it was an interest free one, of course, which i think is the way Lerner did it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on February 13, 2020, 03:53:42 PM
This whole ffp still confuses me. Chelsea apparently spending 37 million on a player. Man City reportedly about to spend big to catch up with Liverpool. Ffp appears to allow this when the money still comes from the Russian and the Arabs respectively. How come?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 13, 2020, 04:11:42 PM
What FFP? It comes in to play with UEFA if you qualify, but otherwise there's little. Short Term Cost Control has been binned, there's this (https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/new-financial-fair-play-rule-change-will-completely-change-how-next-seasons-premier-league) from the folks at fourfourtwo, but if anyone can find anything else, I'd like to hear.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on February 13, 2020, 05:03:04 PM
When you look at the situation we were in after the Fulham game at Wembley.
We are very, very lucky.

How many people would’ve taken the club on? It’s a bloody miracle.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on February 13, 2020, 05:48:23 PM
Another £17m into the club via a share issue.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03375789/filing-history



Being a bit dim with regards such thing, my question is why?

The club loses money so the cash has got to come from somewhere.
They could loan it but this shows commitment.

A loan would carry interest which I'm guessing would count against us for FFP.

Unless it was an interest free one, of course, which i think is the way Lerner did it.

That wouldn't work either as related party transactions have to be at arms length for FFP purposes.  It's why our stadium sale to the owners is being investigated.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Demitri_C on February 13, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
Simon Jordan’s the other day explained ffp on Ts and he was specifically talking about us. HE said the 150m we spent isn’t breaking financial fair play as he said something about the value of the players Andy the length of contract.

I’ll see if I can dig it up it was really interesting.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OzVilla on February 14, 2020, 01:23:20 AM
He must be referring to 'amortisation' where the cost of the transfer fee is spread across the length of the players contract for FFP purposes,

For example a 20 million fee on a 4 year contract is basically 5 million for that year against FFP recurring. I think......
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 14, 2020, 06:13:42 AM
He must be referring to 'amortisation' where the cost of the transfer fee is spread across the length of the players contract for FFP purposes,

For example a 20 million fee on a 4 year contract is basically 5 million for that year against FFP recurring. I think......
Yep
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on February 14, 2020, 11:52:33 AM
He must be referring to 'amortisation' where the cost of the transfer fee is spread across the length of the players contract for FFP purposes,

For example a 20 million fee on a 4 year contract is basically 5 million for that year against FFP recurring. I think......

That makes sense and often transfer fees are spread over multiple years too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 14, 2020, 12:37:58 PM
He must be referring to 'amortisation' where the cost of the transfer fee is spread across the length of the players contract for FFP purposes,

For example a 20 million fee on a 4 year contract is basically 5 million for that year against FFP recurring. I think......

That makes sense and often transfer fees are spread over multiple years too.
errr I think that’s what he said.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on February 14, 2020, 01:57:15 PM
Well he could have been comparing cash to accounting.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 14, 2020, 03:48:21 PM
Well he could have been comparing cash to accounting.
He used the word amortization, that’s accounting, he just repeated the post above. Never mind.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on February 15, 2020, 08:17:31 AM
It's the wages that are the problem.  Or at least they were whilst we were in the Championship.

Our current FFP problem appears to revolve around the ground sale.  If my understanding is correct, the PL haven't passed off approval of this transaction.  The EFL have questioned the valuation that both Derby & Sheff Wed put on their grounds when they were sold and in Wednesday's case, they have been charged with misleading the EFL with the valuation.  If it were to do the same with us and place a lower value on the ground, we would almost certainly fall foul of FFP for the 3 year period that we were in the Championship.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 15, 2020, 11:36:24 AM
You would hope that they used 2 professional valuers and standard practices were used.
What would happen if we are in Championship Breach, does this only matter if we are back in the Championship?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on February 15, 2020, 11:44:14 AM
The valuation seems fair to me - Although I'm nowhere near an expert.  I base this on Derby valuing their stadium at around £70 million and reading somewhere that the EFL revalued it at around £49 million.  Ours was valued at around the £55 million mark I believe.

It has also been reported that the EFL and PL have amalgamated in terms of FFP issues, which if true means that the PL can implement sanctions for breaches that occurred in the Championship.

Like you, I'm fairly confident that our executive committee knew what they were doing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 15, 2020, 11:54:52 AM
An important aspect will be the rent that the club is paying, if this is not deemed commercially viable then they may have a problem.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nii Lamptey on February 15, 2020, 12:27:08 PM
It's the wages that are the problem.  Or at least they were whilst we were in the Championship.

Our current FFP problem appears to revolve around the ground sale.  If my understanding is correct, the PL haven't passed off approval of this transaction.  The EFL have questioned the valuation that both Derby & Sheff Wed put on their grounds when they were sold and in Wednesday's case, they have been charged with misleading the EFL with the valuation.  If it were to do the same with us and place a lower value on the ground, we would almost certainly fall foul of FFP for the 3 year period that we were in the Championship.

Villa Park is a priceless asset, so we should never fall foul of FFP imo.  ;)

On a similar note, a West Ham Fan twitter account posted this after the news that we'd be hosting England's warm-up game against Romania. Seems it's well respected across the country... and rightly so!

https://twitter.com/WestHam_Central/status/1228375348225695744?s=20

(https://i.ibb.co/552PJk1/VP.jpg) (https://ibb.co/552PJk1)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Demitri_C on February 27, 2020, 12:40:10 PM
Do we have anything to be worried about ? No idea what this means any accountants here?


(https://i.ibb.co/7NZKD0T/20200227-123821.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7NZKD0T)


Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sid1964 on February 27, 2020, 12:45:07 PM
Have we fallen foul of FFP and are trying to avoid any fine / points deduction?
if we are relegated will the football league soon be imposing a points deduction?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 27, 2020, 12:54:38 PM
As the tweet says, if you shorten your accounting period, you get effectively get an extra 3 months to prepare the accounts.  Educated guess, but with the arguments over the value of the stadium, it may be proving difficult to have them signed off.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Demitri_C on February 27, 2020, 01:02:02 PM
As the tweet says, if you shorten your accounting period, you get effectively get an extra 3 months to prepare the accounts.  Educated guess, but with the arguments over the value of the stadium, it may be proving difficult to have them signed off.

That makes sense. Lets hope it is that and nothing more sinister. If we fail under ffp in pl then get relegated the efl are going to have absolutely demolish us
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 27, 2020, 01:04:39 PM
It’s pretty worrisome, if that is the case.
Another reason why Relegation would be catastrophic.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on February 27, 2020, 03:47:21 PM
It would mean it takes it into next season before the reporting rather than in the close season.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Demitri_C on February 27, 2020, 08:31:30 PM
It would mean it takes it into next season before the reporting rather than in the close season.

I fear the losses are going to be astronomical
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 27, 2020, 08:40:21 PM
It would mean it takes it into next season before the reporting rather than in the close season.

I fear the losses are going to be astronomical

You do surprise me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 27, 2020, 10:06:21 PM
He's probably right though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 27, 2020, 10:20:30 PM
It would mean it takes it into next season before the reporting rather than in the close season.

I fear the losses are going to be astronomical

I bet you're wanking yourself into a frenzy at the very thought of all the doom it would involve.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on February 27, 2020, 10:27:08 PM
I thought Hilts banned hate-wanks after the Southampton game.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 27, 2020, 10:37:13 PM
He's probably right though.

It's the relish with which he posts of anything negative.

And I say that as one firmly at the doomsayer end of the happyclappiness scale.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Richard E on February 27, 2020, 10:38:30 PM
I thought Hilts banned hate-wanks after the Southampton game.

‘Hate Wanks’ belongs in that band names thread.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 27, 2020, 10:50:21 PM
Hate the wank, not the wanker.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on February 27, 2020, 11:13:54 PM
As long as the losses are within the allowable losses limit are we bothered? They’re underwritten by Wes and Naseef anyway.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 28, 2020, 07:06:31 AM
As long as the losses are within the allowable losses limit are we bothered? They’re underwritten by Wes and Naseef anyway.
This is not a money problem, this is FFP although no one seems clear what our situation is.
The concern would be relegation and a points deduction.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on February 28, 2020, 07:17:13 AM
In the event of relegation, the 3 year cycle over which its assessed by the EFL would start again wouldn't it?

We've not been charged over any breaches from last season or the seasons before, so why, in the event we dropped, would we automatically be deducted points?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 28, 2020, 07:29:18 AM
In the event of relegation, the 3 year cycle over which its assessed by the EFL would start again wouldn't it?

We've not been charged over any breaches from last season or the seasons before, so why, in the event we dropped, would we automatically be deducted points?
The EFL has thier own interpretation of FFP and the reasons we appear to have escaped sanction is promotion and sale of the ground.
The indications based on extending our Financial Reporting, our Transfer activity and rumors are that we are dealing with or working on avoiding a sanction.
Last year I was pretty clear and there was a pretty good article and analisys that laid out the extent of our FFP problem.
I am not sure where we are now but events tend to indicate that there is a problem?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 28, 2020, 09:29:15 AM
The change in the accounting year end date either means that they need more time to get them signed off, or they're delaying giving any information to the league.  Or both.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on February 28, 2020, 09:55:23 AM
In the event of relegation, the 3 year cycle over which its assessed by the EFL would start again wouldn't it?

We've not been charged over any breaches from last season or the seasons before, so why, in the event we dropped, would we automatically be deducted points?

It's a maximum of £39m loss in a 3 year cycle (average £13m per year)

In seasons 1 & 2 in the Championship, we were just under or on the borderline.  Last seasons accounts are estimated at being around -£24 million meaning we have breached FFP by around £11m in the 3 year cycle.

The ground sale is designed to offset this.  The whole sale figure isn't just included in 1 lump sum - It's the amount of profit made by the sale - Which is perilously close to the £11m needed.  Any interference by the EFL regarding the valuation figure of £56m could mean we don't make the circa £11m profit required to fall within the parameters of the 3 year cycle.

We aren't automatically going to be deducted points but if we fall foul, we are almost certainly going to be (Blues being the example of what to expect).  We are very, very close.

There is a further complication as to whether we actually got the ground sale recorded in the relevant year.  Again, it was close.

+ EDIT: The 3 year cycle rolls regardless of division - You are just entitled to make a higher loss in the PL.  The 3 year cycle up to the end of last year covers the 3 years in the Championship so £39m max losses.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Demitri_C on February 28, 2020, 10:18:20 AM
It would mean it takes it into next season before the reporting rather than in the close season.

I fear the losses are going to be astronomical

I bet you're wanking yourself into a frenzy at the very thought of all the doom it would involve.

What the hell is wrong with you? Seriously you are one strange guy

Go eat some walnuts or something and calm down your embarrassing yourself with your obsession with my posts
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on February 28, 2020, 10:21:19 AM
I think his problems is that you appear to dramatize and catastrophise every possible situation.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Demitri_C on February 28, 2020, 10:24:48 AM
I think his problems is that you appear to dramatize and catastrophise every possible situation.

All i said was i fear the losses will be astronomical  whats wrong with that ?

We spent 150m in the summer with no major out goings.

I gurantee if i responded in the way he did id be jumped on.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on February 28, 2020, 10:30:13 AM
I think his problems is that you appear to dramatize and catastrophise every possible situation.

All i said was i fear the losses will be astronomical  whats wrong with that ?

We spent 150m in the summer with no major out goings.

I gurantee if i responded in the way he did id be jumped on.


The £150m spent in the summer are not relevant until this time next year.  Accounting is 1 year behind real time - So we are looking at the period ending 12 months ago (combined with the previous  seasons).

In any case, we received TV money to counter the £150m (which is probably spread over 3 or 4 years by way of stage payments).

It's wages that kill us, not transfer fees.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on February 28, 2020, 10:45:46 AM
I think his problems is that you appear to dramatize and catastrophise every possible situation.

All i said was i fear the losses will be astronomical  whats wrong with that ?

We spent 150m in the summer with no major out goings.

I gurantee if i responded in the way he did id be jumped on.


Paulie isn't reacting to this single episode.

To couch it another way; event A happens. People react. Some positively, some with indifference and some with concern. A discussion develops.

Your take on a matter is universally dramatic. It's a bad scenario and what's worse, theres fire and brimstone raining down from the sky. Rivers and seas boiling, 40 years of darkness, earthquakes and volcanoes, the dead rising from the grave, human sacrifices, cats living with dogs. Mass hysteria. See all that? That's you that is.

And I think that is what has ground Paulies' gears.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 28, 2020, 10:50:50 AM
Thanks Brassneck
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Demitri_C on February 28, 2020, 10:53:44 AM
I think his problems is that you appear to dramatize and catastrophise every possible situation.

All i said was i fear the losses will be astronomical  whats wrong with that ?

We spent 150m in the summer with no major out goings.

I gurantee if i responded in the way he did id be jumped on.


The £150m spent in the summer are not relevant until this time next year.  Accounting is 1 year behind real time - So we are looking at the period ending 12 months ago (combined with the previous  seasons).

In any case, we received TV money to counter the £150m (which is probably spread over 3 or 4 years by way of stage payments).

It's wages that kill us, not transfer fees.

@ads

See this is the kind of reply that is more productive  educating others  not stupid points about me wanking off if results turn out bad

I see various other posts that are negative but he dont say anything to them . He is obsessesd with me for some reason . Its very hypocritical to criticise me then him reply with even more negativity about me.

Thanks brassneck for that post that gives me a better understanding of the numbers.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on February 28, 2020, 10:55:30 AM
I think his problems is that you appear to dramatize and catastrophise every possible situation.

All i said was i fear the losses will be astronomical  whats wrong with that ?

We spent 150m in the summer with no major out goings.

I gurantee if i responded in the way he did id be jumped on.


Paulie isn't reacting to this single episode.

To couch it another way; event A happens. People react. Some positively, some with indifference and some with concern. A discussion develops.

Your take on a matter is universally dramatic. It's a bad scenario and what's worse, theres fire and brimstone raining down from the sky. Rivers and seas boiling, 40 years of darkness, earthquakes and volcanoes, the dead rising from the grave, human sacrifices, cats living with dogs. Mass hysteria. See all that? That's you that is.

And I think that is what has ground Paulies' gears.

See that record cup final defeat? That's your mom, that is.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on February 28, 2020, 11:02:08 AM
I think his problems is that you appear to dramatize and catastrophise every possible situation.

All i said was i fear the losses will be astronomical  whats wrong with that ?

We spent 150m in the summer with no major out goings.

I gurantee if i responded in the way he did id be jumped on.


Paulie isn't reacting to this single episode.

To couch it another way; event A happens. People react. Some positively, some with indifference and some with concern. A discussion develops.

Your take on a matter is universally dramatic. It's a bad scenario and what's worse, theres fire and brimstone raining down from the sky. Rivers and seas boiling, 40 years of darkness, earthquakes and volcanoes, the dead rising from the grave, human sacrifices, cats living with dogs. Mass hysteria. See all that? That's you that is.

And I think that is what has ground Paulies' gears.

See that record cup final defeat? That's your mom, that is.

I had hollies so it cant be.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 28, 2020, 11:20:07 AM
I think his problems is that you appear to dramatize and catastrophise every possible situation.

All i said was i fear the losses will be astronomical  whats wrong with that ?

We spent 150m in the summer with no major out goings.

I gurantee if i responded in the way he did id be jumped on.


The £150m spent in the summer are not relevant until this time next year.  Accounting is 1 year behind real time - So we are looking at the period ending 12 months ago (combined with the previous  seasons).

In any case, we received TV money to counter the £150m (which is probably spread over 3 or 4 years by way of stage payments).

It's wages that kill us, not transfer fees.

@ads

See this is the kind of reply that is more productive  educating others  not stupid points about me wanking off if results turn out bad

I see various other posts that are negative but he dont say anything to them . He is obsessesd with me for some reason . Its very hypocritical to criticise me then him reply with even more negativity about me.

Thanks brassneck for that post that gives me a better understanding of the numbers.


I am obsessed with you? I've replied to your posts about three times ever.

Mostly because i scroll past them as fast as my little fingers can work the trackpad.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Demitri_C on February 28, 2020, 11:25:23 AM
I think his problems is that you appear to dramatize and catastrophise every possible situation.

All i said was i fear the losses will be astronomical  whats wrong with that ?

We spent 150m in the summer with no major out goings.

I gurantee if i responded in the way he did id be jumped on.


The £150m spent in the summer are not relevant until this time next year.  Accounting is 1 year behind real time - So we are looking at the period ending 12 months ago (combined with the previous  seasons).

In any case, we received TV money to counter the £150m (which is probably spread over 3 or 4 years by way of stage payments).

It's wages that kill us, not transfer fees.

@ads

See this is the kind of reply that is more productive  educating others  not stupid points about me wanking off if results turn out bad

I see various other posts that are negative but he dont say anything to them . He is obsessesd with me for some reason . Its very hypocritical to criticise me then him reply with even more negativity about me.

Thanks brassneck for that post that gives me a better understanding of the numbers.


I am obsessed with you? I've replied to your posts about three times ever.

Mostly because i scroll past them as fast as my little fingers can work the trackpad.

Ignore my posts in future  i dont wish to engage in conversation with people like you.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Legion on February 28, 2020, 11:37:00 AM
A Villa fan?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ajmant on February 28, 2020, 11:40:00 AM
I see we have an announcement re the finances on the official site.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Legion on February 28, 2020, 11:43:41 AM
From Pravda:

Quote
Announcement on Financial Results

Exceptional promotion-related costs of £45.8m including a one-off £30m contingent payment to former owner Randolph D Lerner were substantial contributory factors in the £68.9m loss recorded in Aston Villa’s group accounts for the year ended May 31, 2019 published today.

The Club’s ultimate parent company, NSWE SCS, introduced £30m by way of a capital injection to enable the Club to settle the liability when former owner Recon Group Limited defaulted on the payment.

The payment was made in accordance with the provisions of the purchase agreement of May 2016 between Recon Group Limited (Buyer), Randolph Lerner / Alfred Lerner Declaration of Trust (together the Sellers) and Zhejiang Ruikang Investment Co. Limited and Jian Tong Xia (together the Guarantors).

The terms of the agreement stipulated that if Recon Group Limited and the Guarantors failed to pay the £30m bonus due to the Sellers on Aston Villa’s promotion back to The Premier League, the Club would be liable for the payment.

On June 6, 2019, Recon Group Limited (Hong Kong) confirmed default on the payment. The liability was settled through payment on July 12, 2019. As a result, the Club made provision for a £30m liability in the 2018/19 year-end accounts.

NSWE SCS is wholly owned by Wes Edens and Nassef Sawiris.

During the year the ownership group introduced £105.7m into the Club all of which was in the form of capital injections which resulted in Aston Villa remaining debt free.

Aston Villa can confirm that in the 3-year period ending May 31, 2019, the Club complied with the EFL’s Profitability & Sustainability Rules. After promotion, The Premier League reviewed and confirmed compliance in accordance with their own policies and procedures.

Turnover in the financial year to May 31, 2019 was £54.3m, a fall of £14.3m compared to the year ended May 31, 2018. This was primarily due to a reduction in Premier League parachute payments in the third successive season the club competed in The Championship.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 28, 2020, 11:49:09 AM
I see the PL has confirmed but will we still have a problem with the EFL if we go down?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 28, 2020, 11:50:55 AM
I see the PL has confirmed but will we still have a problem with the EFL if we go down?

Don't think so:

"Aston Villa can confirm that in the 3-year period ending May 31, 2019, the Club complied with the EFL’s Profitability & Sustainability Rules. "
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 28, 2020, 11:52:28 AM
I see the PL has confirmed but will we still have a problem with the EFL if we go down?

Don't think so:

"Aston Villa can confirm that in the 3-year period ending May 31, 2019, the Club complied with the EFL’s Profitability & Sustainability Rules. "
[/quote



Sorry missed that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on February 28, 2020, 11:55:01 AM
I see the PL has confirmed but will we still have a problem with the EFL if we go down?

Don't think so:

"Aston Villa can confirm that in the 3-year period ending May 31, 2019, the Club complied with the EFL’s Profitability & Sustainability Rules. "

There is of course a big difference between us confirming it and the EFL doing so - Fingers crossed though.

£68m loss minus £45m exceptional costs leaves us with a loss of around £23m (£10m over the FFP threshold).  Hopefully, the ground sale will cover this.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Demitri_C on February 28, 2020, 11:58:25 AM
So the lerner pay off 30m that would go towards our FFP record?

I dont see how thats fair that the fraud Xia almost destroyed us so our owners had to pay him off and then pay lerner a agreement he made with Lerner.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on February 28, 2020, 12:01:40 PM
So the lerner pay off 30m that would go towards our FFP record?

I dont see how thats fair that the fraud Xia almost destroyed us so our owners had to pay him off and then pay lerner a agreement he made with Lerner.

No - The Lerner payoff is disregarded for FFP (along with another £15m)

We are left with a figure of £23m which is £10m over the £13m threshold.

We're talking about a figure of £10m, that's all.  The ground sale will hopefully account for that.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 28, 2020, 12:11:41 PM
I see the PL has confirmed but will we still have a problem with the EFL if we go down?

Don't think so:

"Aston Villa can confirm that in the 3-year period ending May 31, 2019, the Club complied with the EFL’s Profitability & Sustainability Rules. "

There is of course a big difference between us confirming it and the EFL doing so - Fingers crossed though.

Yes, that's a good point, it says we believe we are compliant, the EFL saying that is another thing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on February 28, 2020, 12:14:57 PM
I can't foresee a scenario where any valuation of Villa Park would be less than £10m, even if its considered the 3 independent valuations over valued it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on February 28, 2020, 12:21:30 PM
I can't foresee a scenario where any valuation of Villa Park would be less than £10m, even if its considered the 3 independent valuations over valued it.

Me neither - I'm just hoping that the sale is not factored into the £68m loss figure because that would still leave us £10m light/heavy.

Villa seem confident, as they have done all the way through.  I trust their judgement.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on February 28, 2020, 12:23:10 PM
I see the PL has confirmed but will we still have a problem with the EFL if we go down?

Don't think so:

"Aston Villa can confirm that in the 3-year period ending May 31, 2019, the Club complied with the EFL’s Profitability & Sustainability Rules. "

There is of course a big difference between us confirming it and the EFL doing so - Fingers crossed though.

Yes, that's a good point, it says we believe we are compliant, the EFL saying that is another thing.

Forget that, what have Villaleaks got to say about it? Or that bellend in the Guardian comments section.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on February 28, 2020, 12:28:47 PM
If you wnat the detail I'd pop over to Smallheath Alliance, they'll have multiple experts all over it by now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 28, 2020, 01:41:42 PM
Forget that, what have Villaleaks got to say about it? Or that bellend in the Guardian comments section.
I know the one you mean.  He's obsessed with our finances.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VinnieChase84 on February 28, 2020, 02:18:48 PM
Long and short of it is we have passed all 3 years. Premier league happy with our books. stadium sale was in last years so that means thats been signed off fine by both EFL and EPL. (plus we are debt free)

Guess media will have to look for the next club to have a witchhunt for

Meanwhile Man united increase of net debt, from £247.2million to £384.5million and thats ok allegedly
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on February 28, 2020, 02:19:20 PM
Forget that, what have Villaleaks got to say about it? Or that bellend in the Guardian comments section.
I know the one you mean.  He's obsessed with our finances.

Isn't he just? You could be reading an article on the top ten artisan peanut butters, and down there in the comments they'll be some mention on how unfair it is for peanut butter manufacturers that Villa have been allowed to breach FFP.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: darren woolley on February 28, 2020, 02:29:42 PM
So we are Ok with FFP I'm not too good with finances.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Small Rodent on February 28, 2020, 02:31:30 PM
So we are Ok with FFP I'm not too good with finances.

Lend us a tenner.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: darren woolley on February 28, 2020, 02:37:48 PM
So we are Ok with FFP I'm not too good with finances.

Lend us a tenner.
[/quo
So we are Ok with FFP I'm not too good with finances.

Lend us a tenner.

LOL
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: GarTomas on February 28, 2020, 02:40:52 PM
I think his problems is that you appear to dramatize and catastrophise every possible situation.

All i said was i fear the losses will be astronomical  whats wrong with that ?

We spent 150m in the summer with no major out goings.

I gurantee if i responded in the way he did id be jumped on.


Paulie isn't reacting to this single episode.

To couch it another way; event A happens. People react. Some positively, some with indifference and some with concern. A discussion develops.

Your take on a matter is universally dramatic. It's a bad scenario and what's worse, theres fire and brimstone raining down from the sky. Rivers and seas boiling, 40 years of darkness, earthquakes and volcanoes, the dead rising from the grave, human sacrifices, cats living with dogs. Mass hysteria. See all that? That's you that is.

And I think that is what has ground Paulies' gears.

You left out the 4 Horsemen?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ColinMac on February 28, 2020, 03:19:06 PM
So we are Ok with FFP I'm not too good with finances.

Lend us a tenner.
[/quo
So we are Ok with FFP I'm not too good with finances.

Lend us a tenner.

LOL

Bad with money and with the quote function here :op
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Demitri_C on February 28, 2020, 03:28:37 PM
So the lerner pay off 30m that would go towards our FFP record?

I dont see how thats fair that the fraud Xia almost destroyed us so our owners had to pay him off and then pay lerner a agreement he made with Lerner.

No - The Lerner payoff is disregarded for FFP (along with another £15m)

We are left with a figure of £23m which is £10m over the £13m threshold.

We're talking about a figure of £10m, that's all.  The ground sale will hopefully account for that.

Thanks for clearing that up mate. Makes it easy to understand 😃
 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on February 29, 2020, 11:52:34 AM
Interesting that a lot of the commentary in the statement dwells on the default of Xia repaying the £30m promotion clause to Lerner.

Does that mean when our current owners bought (saved) the club, that the agreement upon Xia's purchase from Lerner in 2016 remained whereby Xia was still liable for the Lerner pay-off should we get promoted last season? That must have been factored into how much Xia was paid for the club (ie more) than if Edens/Sawiri had taken-on the promotion liability (maybe all parties thought we were unlikely to win promotion last year).

Makes you wince how poor an owner (as well as cash-poor poor) the "Doc" was. I wonder would other, less benevolent new owners have refused to pay Lerner, stating it wasn't their obligation...where the fcuk would that have left us?
In short, Nas and Wes, thank you. Randy and Tony, fuck off.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villatillidie1982 on February 29, 2020, 12:08:22 PM
Interesting that a lot of the commentary in the statement dwells on the default of Xia repaying the £30m promotion clause to Lerner.

Does that mean when our current owners bought (saved) the club, that the agreement upon Xia's purchase from Lerner in 2016 remained whereby Xia was still liable for the Lerner pay-off should we get promoted last season? That must have been factored into how much Xia was paid for the club (ie more) than if Edens/Sawiri had taken-on the promotion liability (maybe all parties thought we were unlikely to win promotion last year).

Makes you wince how poor an owner (as well as cash-poor poor) the "Doc" was. I wonder would other, less benevolent new owners have refused to pay Lerner, stating it wasn't their obligation...where the fcuk would that have left us?
In short, Nas and Wes, thank you. Randy and Tony, fuck off.
  Surely the club is riddled with debt, to Nas and Wes. Selling the family silver (Villa Park) means it has more cash but less assets. Villa Park can now be turned into a retail park and there is nothing that anybody at the club could do about it. Maybe the Coventry City fans were right when they sang "We'll meet again" when we relegated them all those years ago.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 29, 2020, 12:11:40 PM
Interesting that a lot of the commentary in the statement dwells on the default of Xia repaying the £30m promotion clause to Lerner.

Does that mean when our current owners bought (saved) the club, that the agreement upon Xia's purchase from Lerner in 2016 remained whereby Xia was still liable for the Lerner pay-off should we get promoted last season? That must have been factored into how much Xia was paid for the club (ie more) than if Edens/Sawiri had taken-on the promotion liability (maybe all parties thought we were unlikely to win promotion last year).

Makes you wince how poor an owner (as well as cash-poor poor) the "Doc" was. I wonder would other, less benevolent new owners have refused to pay Lerner, stating it wasn't their obligation...where the fcuk would that have left us?
In short, Nas and Wes, thank you. Randy and Tony, fuck off.

It was the club as a legal entity that owed the money, so if they hadn’t, it would have meant a legal case and administration.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 29, 2020, 12:20:52 PM
Interesting that a lot of the commentary in the statement dwells on the default of Xia repaying the £30m promotion clause to Lerner.

Does that mean when our current owners bought (saved) the club, that the agreement upon Xia's purchase from Lerner in 2016 remained whereby Xia was still liable for the Lerner pay-off should we get promoted last season? That must have been factored into how much Xia was paid for the club (ie more) than if Edens/Sawiri had taken-on the promotion liability (maybe all parties thought we were unlikely to win promotion last year).

Makes you wince how poor an owner (as well as cash-poor poor) the "Doc" was. I wonder would other, less benevolent new owners have refused to pay Lerner, stating it wasn't their obligation...where the fcuk would that have left us?
In short, Nas and Wes, thank you. Randy and Tony, fuck off.
  Surely the club is riddled with debt, to Nas and Wes. Selling the family silver (Villa Park) means it has more cash but less assets. Villa Park can now be turned into a retail park and there is nothing that anybody at the club could do about it. Maybe the Coventry City fans were right when they sang "We'll meet again" when we relegated them all those years ago.

Villa Park is an Asset of Community Value, which offers some worst-case scenario protection.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 29, 2020, 12:31:22 PM
Interesting that a lot of the commentary in the statement dwells on the default of Xia repaying the £30m promotion clause to Lerner.

Does that mean when our current owners bought (saved) the club, that the agreement upon Xia's purchase from Lerner in 2016 remained whereby Xia was still liable for the Lerner pay-off should we get promoted last season? That must have been factored into how much Xia was paid for the club (ie more) than if Edens/Sawiri had taken-on the promotion liability (maybe all parties thought we were unlikely to win promotion last year).

Makes you wince how poor an owner (as well as cash-poor poor) the "Doc" was. I wonder would other, less benevolent new owners have refused to pay Lerner, stating it wasn't their obligation...where the fcuk would that have left us?
In short, Nas and Wes, thank you. Randy and Tony, fuck off.
  Surely the club is riddled with debt, to Nas and Wes. Selling the family silver (Villa Park) means it has more cash but less assets. Villa Park can now be turned into a retail park and there is nothing that anybody at the club could do about it. Maybe the Coventry City fans were right when they sang "We'll meet again" when we relegated them all those years ago.
If you want to see a club riddled with debt check out Manure.
I think you will find most clubs just like most corporations carry debt.
It looks like they had to sell  VP to avoid FFP.
In comparison to where we were under the Chinese Payless Shoes bloke, we are in a much better position and I would take these owners over the Glazers or Lerner for example.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ClarrieBlue on March 03, 2020, 07:47:38 PM
There was an article on the 28th Feb in the Daily Telegraph titled "Aston Villa owners' grand vision remains undimmed despite threat of relegation". Did anybody get the chance to read it, it's behind a paywall unfortunately. What was the gist of it. I suppose the clue is in the title lol.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on March 03, 2020, 08:12:06 PM
Interesting that a lot of the commentary in the statement dwells on the default of Xia repaying the £30m promotion clause to Lerner.

Does that mean when our current owners bought (saved) the club, that the agreement upon Xia's purchase from Lerner in 2016 remained whereby Xia was still liable for the Lerner pay-off should we get promoted last season? That must have been factored into how much Xia was paid for the club (ie more) than if Edens/Sawiri had taken-on the promotion liability (maybe all parties thought we were unlikely to win promotion last year).

Makes you wince how poor an owner (as well as cash-poor poor) the "Doc" was. I wonder would other, less benevolent new owners have refused to pay Lerner, stating it wasn't their obligation...where the fcuk would that have left us?
In short, Nas and Wes, thank you. Randy and Tony, fuck off.
  Surely the club is riddled with debt, to Nas and Wes. Selling the family silver (Villa Park) means it has more cash but less assets. Villa Park can now be turned into a retail park and there is nothing that anybody at the club could do about it. Maybe the Coventry City fans were right when they sang "We'll meet again" when we relegated them all those years ago.
I'm not sure why people go on about it being a prime redevelopment site for retail etc.  It's really not.  There's already a retail park at the Fort and another one here just wouldn't work.  It's certainly not an office location.  I have big doubts that a hotel would bring in the funds some think.  You could put a few industrial sheds there I suppose, but the access roads aren't nearly good enough as they are and frankly industrial land values aren't the sort of figures that will have dodgey owners riding off into the sunset.  I'd imagine residential would be the most likley use, but again we're hardly talking Chelsea land values
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on March 03, 2020, 08:39:46 PM
There was an article on the 28th Feb in the Daily Telegraph titled "Aston Villa owners' grand vision remains undimmed despite threat of relegation". Did anybody get the chance to read it, it's behind a paywall unfortunately. What was the gist of it. I suppose the clue is in the title lol.

Quote
Aston Villa owners' grand vision remains undimmed despite threat of relegation

Less than two years after rescuing Aston Villa from the brink of financial oblivion, Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens are making trips to Wembley an annual event.

It is still early into NSWE’s five-year plan, and relegation to the Championship this season remains a serious prospect, but this is a world away from the turmoil of May 2018 when one of English football’s founder members was on the verge of administration.

Sawiris and Edens will both be in attendance for Sunday’s Carabao Cup Final, along with Villa supporter the Duke of Cambridge, and the transformation under the billionaire businessmen so far has been remarkable.

Villa are now back competing in the Premier League, with a waiting list for season tickets of 7,000, and the financial picture is healthy with a clear strategy and ambition to keep the club moving forward.

Sawiris and Edens have, so far, made an encouraging start towards delivering on their promise to "bring sustainable success to the club, building on its rich history while respecting its loyal fan base and unique culture”.

Whatever happens against Carabao Cup holders Manchester City on Sunday - who have beaten Villa twice this season with an aggregate score of 9-1 - there is optimism over the future and a sense of stability off the field.

“The owners have invested a lot of their own money to set this club on a good footing so we can go and compete at the highest level in the Premier League,” said Dean Smith, Villa’s head coach.

“We need to go and retain our status as a Premier League club this season but we are also in a domestic cup final as well. As well as the players, a lot of credit goes to the owners with their investment and vision for the club.

“They are exceptional businessmen and the partnership works in a really good way.”

There was a grim reminder of the club’s troubled past on Friday, when Villa reported losses of just under £69 million in their financial accounts. Remarkably, that figure included a £30 million payment to former owner Randy Lerner, with the cheque written by NSWE as Dr Tony Xia, who passed the club on to the current owners, failed to pay up.

Indeed, it is easy to forget just how perilous the situation was after Villa’s defeat to Fulham in the 2018 Championship play-off final.

The day before that game, there was a warning from HMRC that the club would be wound up unless they paid a £4.2million tax bill.

Six weeks of financial crisis followed, with administration appearing inevitable, until NSWE chose their moment with Villa at the lowest ebb in its recent history.

Edens, in particular, had been desperate to acquire a club in the Premier League after falling in love with football at the 1994 World Cup, which was held in his native United States.

A co-owner of NBA team Milwaukee Bucks, Edens once held talks with David Beckham over potential investment into Inter Miami but his ambition was always to buy an English club with a proud history.

Sawiris, reportedly Egypt’s richest man with a fortune of $7.2 billion, had the same vision and their arrival was confirmed in July 2018.

Christian Purslow, who has vast previous experience with Liverpool and Chelsea, was appointed as chief executive a few weeks later to effectively run the club on a daily basis.

Since Xia’s three-year association with Villa was formally ended in August 2018, over £250 million in capital has been injected into the club by NSWE. 

Following promotion from the Championship, when the club had only 11 contracted players on the books, £127 million was spent in the summer to bring in new recruits.

Admittedly, not all of those signings have worked out, but this was a club starting from scratch and those accusations over “doing a Fulham” (also known as “promotion followed by a trolley-dash”) continue to frustrate Villa officials.

There is an eye on the future, too, with £20 million spent on improving the club’s academy, with the ultimate target of becoming the best in the Midlands.

NSWE could have invested more money but, like Everton, are ultimately prevented from doing so by the Premier League’s Financial Fair Play rules.

Relegation back to the Championship remains the elephant in the room, and this week many Villa fans have been debating whether they would favour silverware over survival.

They produced arguably their worst performance of the season at Southampton last weekend, and are only one place above the dreaded dotted line. More pain could be ahead.

The future of captain Jack Grealish is also uncertain, probably regardless of their Premier League fate. One thing is for sure, however: Villa’s owners do not need the money.

There is also a plan in the event of relegation and Villa continue to insist they will not be in danger of breaching financial rules.

But these are all potential issues for the summer and, for now, a second date at Wembley in under a year proves that Villa are back in the national conscience.

As Sawiris said after last season’s play-off victory, “the sky is the limit”.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: themossman on March 03, 2020, 09:17:57 PM
God we were lucky.

Between the thumb screws applied by Lerner On his exit (or more likely the trustees pulling the strings) and that potless shitty shoed chancer Xia we were left right in it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dante Lavelli on March 05, 2020, 08:46:28 PM
The fact there are two of them may help.  It is not one individual restricted by their own finances, ability and appetite.  You’d hope with two big investors they is transparency about their plans and an identifiable route to get there.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 05, 2020, 09:04:44 PM
I think Fulham might have done us a massive favour.

Imagine  Cheap Shoe and whoever was behind him having control of the Club in  the PL.


To end up where we are now with these owners is astonishing good fortune.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 05, 2020, 09:21:20 PM

To end up where we are now with these owners is astonishing good fortune.


Absolutely.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on March 05, 2020, 11:47:56 PM
A guy a few years older than me that I worked with in insurance thirty years ago stayed as a manager  of the branch along with the managing director whilst the other three branches went bust due to mismanagement by the owner of the company which left him with a ban of being a company directer for several years. The two of them then took over the only surviving branch with the guy I worked with being bankrolled by his father. The company is thriving with four employees and he pays himself a very healthy wage which can all be viewed easily on tinternet. However the property is rented and the only real value of the 'company' is the current assets which are negligible and the business/customers currently on the books. He seems to be doing well in this age of most business being done on tinternet but in reality he is only ever one bad year away from trouble.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: nigel on March 06, 2020, 10:07:04 AM
I think Fulham might have done us a massive favour.

Imagine  Cheap Shoe and whoever was behind him having control of the Club in  the PL.


To end up where we are now with these owners is astonishing good fortune.

I said that immediately after we’d lost the play off final that it was a blessing in disguise.
Have to admit, I didn’t realise it was as bad as it was, though
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LukeJames on March 06, 2020, 10:08:39 AM

To end up where we are now with these owners is astonishing good fortune.


Absolutely.

Typical spawny Vile bastards.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on March 14, 2020, 07:46:40 AM
So, with this season almost certainly fucked, does that mean that FFP rules have to be completely reset or relaxed thus giving a reprieve to many clubs.....
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OzVilla on March 14, 2020, 08:25:50 AM
That’s certainly one lever UEFA can pull and would make sense considering the obvious hit on revenues. From a purely footballing point of view the cards really are falling for us it would seem.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 14, 2020, 08:44:52 AM
They’ll have to do something about FFP because it’ll be completely skewed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: gpbarr on September 29, 2020, 12:33:24 AM
It was great to see Nassef @ Craven Cottage tonight. Yes he lives in London but I thought it shows his interest in the club that he showed up. Just another reason to feel good right now - after the ownership nightmares of the last decade, it feels like we finally have guardians who actually mean what they say.   
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KevinGage on September 29, 2020, 12:44:22 AM
Still the richest Arab billionaire, apparently:

 clicktown (https://www.egypttoday.com/Article/3/84657/COVID-19-nullifies-Arab-billionaires-wealth-Nassef-Sawiris-tops-list)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on September 29, 2020, 01:00:26 AM
Be nice if he came to all of our games. Tony did. NSWE out!+
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on September 29, 2020, 01:07:39 AM
No cryptic tweets either. Pretty poor show and probably only turned up tonight because he's a Michael Jackson fan.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on September 29, 2020, 10:01:42 AM
His cheque-writing hand looked a bit twitchy to me, like it needed something to do.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on September 29, 2020, 10:09:25 AM
His cheque-writing hand looked a bit twitchy to me, like it needed something to do.

As a highly successful businessman I'm sure he recognises the fact that the best time to reinforce a business is when you're on the up.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on September 29, 2020, 10:11:07 AM
Be nice if he came to all of our games. Tony did. NSWE out!+

He was at quite a few last season, more than Edens anyway.  He gave me a big thumbs up when Trez scored against Liverpool.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on September 29, 2020, 10:51:06 AM
He was at quite a few last season, more than Edens anyway.  He gave me a big thumbs up when Trez scored against Liverpool.

That's because you were the only one in the ground wealthier than him. ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Cleybrooke on September 29, 2020, 12:05:09 PM
Spotted in Adidas branded face mask...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on September 29, 2020, 12:19:50 PM
I'm pretty sure I read something that suggested the combined wealth of his family is around £40 billion
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on September 29, 2020, 12:37:30 PM
Hopefully he’s in town to do some business.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: N'ZMAV on September 29, 2020, 12:52:11 PM
I'm pretty sure I read something that suggested the combined wealth of his family is around £40 billion
meh - that's chicken feed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: nigel on September 30, 2020, 07:28:26 AM
I'm pretty sure I read something that suggested the combined wealth of his family is around £40 billion

Yes, I think I read, just after take over, that his father and brother are both billionaires in their own right, or something like that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 30, 2020, 07:32:27 AM
Another soulless Etihad or Emirates ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on September 30, 2020, 08:40:29 AM
And there is poor old Tony having to buy his elevator trainers on a lay away plan at Poundstretcher.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: JD on September 30, 2020, 08:51:48 AM
I'm pretty sure I read something that suggested the combined wealth of his family is around £40 billion

Who's, Risso's?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 30, 2020, 10:25:56 AM
When he turned up at training in an Uber.  Surely that was theee moment we knew.  What an odd period in our history. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on September 30, 2020, 07:53:12 PM
When he turned up at training in an Uber.  Surely that was theee moment we knew.  What an odd period in our history.

...and the driver had better shoes.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on September 30, 2020, 11:04:12 PM
I like to think of him arriving and leaving on a cloud like 'Monkey' in the TV show. Although there was little evidence of any 'Monkey Magic'.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on September 30, 2020, 11:36:10 PM
I like to think of him arriving and leaving on a cloud like 'Monkey' in the TV show. Although there was little evidence of any 'Monkey Magic'.

Steve Bruce as Pigsy.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aldridgeboy on September 30, 2020, 11:52:00 PM
There’s been a remake of Monkey. I haven’t watched it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on September 30, 2020, 11:52:48 PM
I like to think of him arriving and leaving on a cloud like 'Monkey' in the TV show. Although there was little evidence of any 'Monkey Magic'.

Steve Bruce as Pigsy.

Steve Agnew as Tripitaka.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on October 01, 2020, 01:58:35 PM
you really couldn't have asked for more from the owners - crazy to think that just over a year ago, we were weeks from going into administration, or worse.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on October 01, 2020, 02:07:53 PM
Hours away...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 01, 2020, 02:38:35 PM
And I know time flies when you're battling relegation, but it was a little over two years ago.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aev on October 14, 2020, 08:41:41 AM
Story in the Athletic that H Hodgson was involved in a consortium that tried to buy the club of Lerner.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on October 14, 2020, 08:50:00 AM
Story in the Athletic that H Hodgson was involved in a consortium that tried to buy the club of Lerner.

He kept that quiet.





Just not on Twitter.

He's got a yacht BTW.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 14, 2020, 12:44:03 PM
Story in the Athletic that H Hodgson was involved in a consortium that tried to buy the club of Lerner.

He kept that quiet.





Just not on Twitter.

He's got a yacht BTW.

And he used to be an actor.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 14, 2020, 12:49:40 PM
Story in the Athletic that H Hodgson was involved in a consortium that tried to buy the club of Lerner.

He kept that quiet.





Just not on Twitter.

He's got a yacht BTW.

And he used to be an actor.

Not to mention his time in Spandau Ballet.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on October 14, 2020, 12:53:19 PM
Story in the Athletic that H Hodgson was involved in a consortium that tried to buy the club of Lerner.

Classic Randy. Agreed to sell the club for £150m in 2015. Changed his mind at the last minute. Sold the club in 2016 instead. For £76m.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on October 14, 2020, 01:40:01 PM
Story in the Athletic that H Hodgson was involved in a consortium that tried to buy the club of Lerner.

Classic Randy. Agreed to sell the club for £150m in 2015. Changed his mind at the last minute. Sold the club in 2016 instead. For £76m.


It was Daddy Lerner who was the businessman and built a fortune. Randy was a lawyer who spent a fortune.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on October 14, 2020, 01:42:30 PM
 He did get £30m when we were promoted though, didn't he (Xia baled out by NotSafeForWork Ltd.)? Still...quite a haircut.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 14, 2020, 01:50:09 PM
Story in the Athletic that H Hodgson was involved in a consortium that tried to buy the club of Lerner.

Classic Randy. Agreed to sell the club for £150m in 2015. Changed his mind at the last minute. Sold the club in 2016 instead. For £76m.

And if you believe that...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 14, 2020, 01:57:40 PM
He did get £30m when we were promoted though, didn't he (Xia baled out by NotSafeForWork Ltd.)? Still...quite a haircut.

Nothing compared to the haircut he got with his shares in Bank of America, the main payment for the sale of his credit card business. It goes a long way to explain why he suddenly stopped throwing money at Villa. Can't say I blame him, if memory serves BoA shares dropped 80% in value.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on October 14, 2020, 01:58:51 PM
Story in the Athletic that H Hodgson was involved in a consortium that tried to buy the club of Lerner.
For those naysayers doubting the genius of HH, you can read his Blueprint for the future here:

https://bellsareringing.forumotion.com/t935-howard-hodgson-blueprint-for-the-future-of-aston-villa

Essentially appoint a manager as good as Arsène Wenger and beat other clubs to the best young European talent and all will be well.  Mind blown.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on October 14, 2020, 02:41:10 PM
He did get £30m when we were promoted though, didn't he (Xia baled out by NotSafeForWork Ltd.)? Still...quite a haircut.

Nothing compared to the haircut he got with his shares in Bank of America, the main payment for the sale of his credit card business. It goes a long way to explain why he suddenly stopped throwing money at Villa. Can't say I blame him, if memory serves BoA shares dropped 80% in value.

Wasn't there also talk of an expensive divorce settlement and Ma Lerner imploring Randolph to cease keeping Richard Dunne in gourmet sausage rolls?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on October 14, 2020, 02:56:01 PM
It's almost a year to the day since the Chinese Government issued an arrest warrant for shit shoe wearing Tony.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dr Butler on October 14, 2020, 03:12:45 PM
It's almost a year to the day since the Chinese Government issued an arrest warrant for shit shoe wearing Tony.

everytime I see or hear Tony Xia's name I automatically think of that little Asian gangster fella Mr Chow out of the film The Hangover....

UTV
The Doc
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 14, 2020, 03:15:07 PM
Is Tony still punting out MSG or has he driven his Mondeo completely off into the twilight?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 14, 2020, 03:32:03 PM
He did get £30m when we were promoted though, didn't he (Xia baled out by NotSafeForWork Ltd.)? Still...quite a haircut.

Nothing compared to the haircut he got with his shares in Bank of America, the main payment for the sale of his credit card business. It goes a long way to explain why he suddenly stopped throwing money at Villa. Can't say I blame him, if memory serves BoA shares dropped 80% in value.

Wasn't there also talk of an expensive divorce settlement and Ma Lerner imploring Randolph to cease keeping Richard Dunne in gourmet sausage rolls?

Apparently the divorce wasn't much of a factor, but the rest of the family did reportedly tell Randy that he was spending a bit too much of their inheritance on that Limey football club. There were other factors as well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on October 14, 2020, 03:38:53 PM
I remember reading about another investment company that he'd put money into, only for the two really unqualified individuals he's got to run it lose everything.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on October 14, 2020, 03:45:14 PM
Story in the Athletic that H Hodgson was involved in a consortium that tried to buy the club of Lerner.

He kept that quiet.





Just not on Twitter.

He's got a yacht BTW.

And he used to be an actor.

Not to mention his time in Spandau Ballet.
Is it true he was in 80s classic Howard's Way?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 14, 2020, 04:35:50 PM
I remember reading about another investment company that he'd put money into, only for the two really unqualified individuals he's got to run it lose everything.

And a judge to then describe it as being run like a frat house?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on October 14, 2020, 05:24:16 PM
He did get £30m when we were promoted though, didn't he (Xia baled out by NotSafeForWork Ltd.)? Still...quite a haircut.

Nothing compared to the haircut he got with his shares in Bank of America, the main payment for the sale of his credit card business. It goes a long way to explain why he suddenly stopped throwing money at Villa. Can't say I blame him, if memory serves BoA shares dropped 80% in value.

Correct, and he had about $2.5 billions worth.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on October 14, 2020, 06:13:12 PM
I remember reading about another investment company that he'd put money into, only for the two really unqualified individuals he's got to run it lose everything.

And a judge to then describe it as being run like a frat house?

Yep, think it was something like that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 14, 2020, 11:27:05 PM
I am not playing the whole "fucking told you so" line but there were a few of us who, for example, when Xia was asked about his worth and showed the balance print out from a Chinese cash machine, suggested this didn't look kosher.

We were also pointing out the fact that Recon group seemed to be the only multi billion pound global conglomerate which appeared to have almost no web presence itself, and which seemed to employ only people with absolutely no web presence.

The guy was an absolute fucking chancer and he very very nearly ruined this club.

Actually, thinking about it, I am saying "told you so" after all.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 14, 2020, 11:42:06 PM
My personal favourite was when Xia claimed he was giving a "keynote speech" at some US tech conference. Five minutes on google and I discovered he wasn't even listed as attending. #Gatecrashersoftheworldunite.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 14, 2020, 11:50:44 PM
My personal favourite was when Xia claimed he was giving a "keynote speech" at some US tech conference. Five minutes on google and I discovered he wasn't even listed as attending. #Gatecrashersoftheworldunite.

Say what you want about him but Titanium is still a great tune. #Gatecrasher
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on October 15, 2020, 01:05:34 AM
As I recall we were happy to be rid of Randy and welcomed Dr T with open arms. But it wasn't long before rumours about his credibility surfaced. There seemed to be rumours but nothing concrete so depending on whether you were a glass half full person or a glass half empty person you took your pick whether to be worried or not so worried. Then events quickly seemed to suggest we had something to seriously worry about and the next thing we were in danger of going bust. The noses keep banging on about how lucky we were to be taken over at the right time by the right people and how it could have been so different. I can't argue with them on that point. I shudder to think what the other outcome of our sliding doors moment would have been like.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 15, 2020, 08:18:44 AM
Just as we complained for years about Doug and he delivered Randy, the Tony xia got us to Nas & Wes.
The journey was scary and the gamble nearly backfired. Most fans dream of having a billionaire buy their club, we have had 3 of them. These latest ones are the real deal.

No wonder other clubs are jealous
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on October 15, 2020, 08:34:47 AM
Just as we complained for years about Doug and he delivered Randy, the Tony xia got us to Nas & Wes.
The journey was scary and the gamble nearly backfired. Most fans dream of having a billionaire buy their club, we have had 3 of them. These latest ones are the real deal.

No wonder other clubs are jealous
Saw an ad on Sky sports this morning. A clip of Tom Cairney slotting in the winner at Wembley for Fulham. Looking at the deflated Villa masses I experienced my own sliding doors moment. Left the ground gutted. Little did we all know at that time it would turn out to be our defining moment in modern times. It would have took us in a totally different direction with a Chinese chancer getting his hands on the PL pot of gold and potato head leading us into the promised land. You know the old saying "someone just walked over my grave?" That's how it felt.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kipeye on October 15, 2020, 09:32:32 AM
If you want good info on football club finances, check out @swissramble on Twitter. Really detailed analysis. Also points out our owners have provided the second-highest cash as equity in the Premier League (and way above the third highest). This means they only get the cash back if the club is sold. Compare with Glazers, Porno Dwarf etc, where exactly the opposite happens.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: maidstonevillain on October 15, 2020, 09:43:18 AM
He did get £30m when we were promoted though, didn't he (Xia baled out by NotSafeForWork Ltd.)? Still...quite a haircut.

Nothing compared to the haircut he got with his shares in Bank of America, the main payment for the sale of his credit card business. It goes a long way to explain why he suddenly stopped throwing money at Villa. Can't say I blame him, if memory serves BoA shares dropped 80% in value.

From $60+ to below$5. They have recovered well. I think Warren Buffet bought a big chunk at about $5. Do you think he wants to buy a football club.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 15, 2020, 10:04:08 AM
If you want good info on football club finances, check out @swissramble on Twitter. Really detailed analysis. Also points out our owners have provided the second-highest cash as equity in the Premier League (and way above the third highest). This means they only get the cash back if the club is sold. Compare with Glazers, Porno Dwarf etc, where exactly the opposite happens.

Anything on Spurs' wage bill?!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on October 15, 2020, 11:58:49 AM
O Villadawg where art thou ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on October 15, 2020, 12:04:29 PM
If you want good info on football club finances, check out @swissramble on Twitter. Really detailed analysis. Also points out our owners have provided the second-highest cash as equity in the Premier League (and way above the third highest). This means they only get the cash back if the club is sold. Compare with Glazers, Porno Dwarf etc, where exactly the opposite happens.

Anything on Spurs' wage bill?!

Apparently Gareth Bale is on £500,000 a week.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on October 15, 2020, 12:46:44 PM
A significant injection of cash by NSWE showing up as a share issue into the holding company today. £30 million.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 15, 2020, 03:42:06 PM
Cannot fault these guys.  Not loading the club with debt.  Genuine cash injections.  I hope we can reward them on the pitch.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 15, 2020, 04:02:05 PM
Cannot fault these guys.  Not loading the club with debt.  Genuine cash injections.  I hope we can reward them on the pitch.



Yes there is nothing that stands out where they have made a mistake is there ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KevinGage on October 15, 2020, 04:11:10 PM
My personal favourite was when Xia claimed he was giving a "keynote speech" at some US tech conference. Five minutes on google and I discovered he wasn't even listed as attending. #Gatecrashersoftheworldunite.

There was interview with a national paper as well where he was talking about making movies in Hollywood.

A total fantasist.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on October 15, 2020, 04:11:23 PM
Cannot fault these guys.  Not loading the club with debt.  Genuine cash injections.  I hope we can reward them on the pitch.



Yes there is nothing that stands out where they have made a mistake is there ?

Nothing, they've been the perfect owners so far. So much so that there must be something terrible coming over the horizon, like they're going to try and re-locate the club in Florida or something.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 15, 2020, 04:12:36 PM
Mexico would be my preference if we’re moving.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on October 15, 2020, 04:14:57 PM
Mexico would be my preference if we’re moving.

Yeah, good shout. Less lardarses and we can kip on your floor overnight.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 15, 2020, 04:17:35 PM
Come one, come all*

*Come one, maybe.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 15, 2020, 04:20:48 PM
My personal favourite was when Xia claimed he was giving a "keynote speech" at some US tech conference. Five minutes on google and I discovered he wasn't even listed as attending. #Gatecrashersoftheworldunite.

There was interview with a national paper as well where he was talking about making movies in Hollywood.

A total fantasist.

He’s still at it now.  Something to do with helping to cure coronavirus.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on October 15, 2020, 04:22:30 PM
My personal favourite was when Xia claimed he was giving a "keynote speech" at some US tech conference. Five minutes on google and I discovered he wasn't even listed as attending. #Gatecrashersoftheworldunite.

There was interview with a national paper as well where he was talking about making movies in Hollywood.

A total fantasist.

He’s still at it now.  Something to do with helping to cure coronavirus.

Anti-coronavirus shitty shoes. Shoes so bad even the virus turns it's nose up at those wearing them. We'll all be wearing them soon.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 15, 2020, 04:23:01 PM
Dr. Tony Xia
@Dr_TonyXia
·
Mar 18
Special thanks to people making the COVID-19 lgM/lgN antibody RapidTestKit. With 15minutes, no need suffering taking the tests.Only need a finger drop blood, can test the result, accuracy is above 95%.... it’s surely my best investment in the bioscience. #RapidTestKit

This got global businessman Xia 130 likes.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 15, 2020, 04:42:56 PM
Yes there is nothing that stands out where they have made a mistake is there ?

Mallory Edens only posting one picture on Instagram in a retro Villa shirt?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on October 15, 2020, 05:03:42 PM
Didnt the new owners say there was some merit to part of Xia's fantasies ie the regeneration of the Aston environs as a "smart town" of sorts? Maybe they were just trying to say something - anything, good about him...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on October 15, 2020, 05:08:52 PM
Id love to know the story behind Xia. Money must have changed hands with lerner, how did he do it?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on October 15, 2020, 05:23:06 PM
Mexico would be my preference if we’re moving.

Viva El Leones
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 15, 2020, 06:35:08 PM
I’m sure some journo from the Mail on Sunday went out to see him in Beijing where he was apparently shown some bank draft copy for squillions.  Can anyone find it?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 15, 2020, 07:07:35 PM
Would be some story if Dr Tony cured Covid.

🤢🤧  + 💉🇨🇳🧑🏽‍🔬 = 😃🌍🥳
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kipeye on October 15, 2020, 07:09:31 PM
I always thought the main issue was the Chinese Government changing its rules for taking money out which scuppered him transferring funds. I really don't know if he had any to transfer, who can say?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on October 15, 2020, 07:12:21 PM
Didnt the new owners say there was some merit to part of Xia's fantasies ie the regeneration of the Aston environs as a "smart town" of sorts? Maybe they were just trying to say something - anything, good about him...

As I recall Sawiris and Edens tried their best to be diplomatic, discreet and polite regarding any statements about Xia whilst he still had a minority share. But I seem to recall once he was history they did make a few comments that were less than complimentary of Sir Shit Shoes.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: colin69 on October 15, 2020, 07:21:52 PM
Would be some story if Dr Tony cured Covid.

🤢🤧  + 💉🇨🇳🧑🏽‍🔬 = 😃🌍🥳
I almost choked when I saw this.....bloody brilliant.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: oldhill_avfc on October 15, 2020, 07:29:17 PM
I always thought the main issue was the Chinese Government changing its rules for taking money out which scuppered him transferring funds. I really don't know if he had any to transfer, who can say?

Would I be cruel to tell him Santa Claus doesn’t exist either?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on October 15, 2020, 08:33:26 PM
Would be some story if Dr Tony cured Covid.

🤢🤧  + 💉🇨🇳🧑🏽‍🔬 = 😃🌍🥳
I almost choked when I saw this.....bloody brilliant.

Emoji post of 2020!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on October 15, 2020, 09:00:11 PM
I’m sure some journo from the Mail on Sunday went out to see him in Beijing where he was apparently shown some bank draft copy for squillions.  Can anyone find it?

Just like Tony Xia’s accountant, no, but I have found a barrel of mono sodium glutamate.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KevinGage on October 15, 2020, 09:32:11 PM
I always thought the main issue was the Chinese Government changing its rules for taking money out which scuppered him transferring funds. I really don't know if he had any to transfer, who can say?

The only issue with that is it hasn't appeared to have scuppered Fosun FC down the road and the other Chinese-owned clubs in Spain and Italy.

He bet the farm (or more to the point the TV money) on getting up in two years. When that didn't work, the shitty-shoed berk had nowhere to turn.

It's totally appropriate that Randolph was hoodwinked by a chancer of that nature.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Pat McMahon on October 15, 2020, 09:45:16 PM
I always thought the main issue was the Chinese Government changing its rules for taking money out which scuppered him transferring funds. I really don't know if he had any to transfer, who can say?

The very wealthy and well connected in China already have a large amount of assets outside the country. Traditionally  a US green card too, since China doesn’t allow dual nationality ie a second passport.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on October 15, 2020, 09:55:38 PM
Would be some story if Dr Tony cured Covid.

🤢🤧  + 💉🇨🇳🧑🏽‍🔬 = 😃🌍🥳
I almost choked when I saw this.....bloody brilliant.

Emoji post of 2020!

Yes  but Dr Tony's posts were never as coherent as that.

They were like a clue from that 3,2,1 Dusty Bin show.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 15, 2020, 10:12:02 PM
Id love to know the story behind Xia. Money must have changed hands with lerner, how did he do it?

Was Steve Hollis's job to sell the club when he was appointed chairman in the car crash 15/16. Properly weird period, had David Bernstein and Adrian Bevington as emergency troubleshooters on the board but they resigned pretty quickly.

Hollis is still around in Brum so that would be good interview to get his thoughts on Dr Fraud.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on October 15, 2020, 10:53:21 PM
From when MON walked out up until the start of this season the cast of characters that have passed through our club on and off the pitch would have made even Cecil B. DeMille question the size of the cast.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 16, 2020, 06:57:58 AM
Would be some story if Dr Tony cured Covid.

🤢🤧  + 💉🇨🇳🧑🏽‍🔬 = 😃🌍🥳

Hahaha very good.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 16, 2020, 06:12:30 PM
Id love to know the story behind Xia. Money must have changed hands with lerner, how did he do it?

Was Steve Hollis's job to sell the club when he was appointed chairman in the car crash 15/16. Properly weird period, had David Bernstein and Adrian Bevington as emergency troubleshooters on the board but they resigned pretty quickly.

Hollis is still around in Brum so that would be good interview to get his thoughts on Dr Fraud.

God, I had totally forgotten Hollis.

The number of people backroom and squad / management who have come, fucked up and gone the last ten years is amazing.

Also strange that the one person who perhaps everyone thought would drag us into the new era, Tom Fox, turned out to be one of the worst.

"I drew up a list of potential managers and it had one name on it. Tim Sherwood."
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Edvard Remberg on October 16, 2020, 06:15:52 PM
Welcome.
Question number 1. Is there anyway a solution can be found that prevents us selling our best players?
Think this has been answered?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: old man villa fan on October 18, 2020, 09:51:26 PM
I always thought the main issue was the Chinese Government changing its rules for taking money out which scuppered him transferring funds. I really don't know if he had any to transfer, who can say?



The very wealthy and well connected in China already have a large amount of assets outside the country. Traditionally  a US green card too, since China doesn’t allow dual nationality ie a second passport.


They also keep a Cypriot passport in their bottom drawer, just in case they need it in future.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on October 18, 2020, 10:05:01 PM
I always thought the main issue was the Chinese Government changing its rules for taking money out which scuppered him transferring funds. I really don't know if he had any to transfer, who can say?



The very wealthy and well connected in China already have a large amount of assets outside the country. Traditionally  a US green card too, since China doesn’t allow dual nationality ie a second passport.


They also keep a Cypriot passport in their bottom drawer, just in case they need it in future.

Passports 1st Tourism a distant 2nd.

Modern Cyprus.

I lived on that Island for a few years. Sell their grandmothers? 
You bet.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on October 19, 2020, 12:33:38 PM
I always thought the main issue was the Chinese Government changing its rules for taking money out which scuppered him transferring funds. I really don't know if he had any to transfer, who can say?

The only issue with that is it hasn't appeared to have scuppered Fosun FC down the road and the other Chinese-owned clubs in Spain and Italy.

He bet the farm (or more to the point the TV money) on getting up in two years. When that didn't work, the shitty-shoed berk had nowhere to turn.

It's totally appropriate that Randolph was hoodwinked by a chancer of that nature.

Was he hoodwinked or was he just desperate to sell and not fussed who to?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 19, 2020, 12:35:32 PM
I always thought the main issue was the Chinese Government changing its rules for taking money out which scuppered him transferring funds. I really don't know if he had any to transfer, who can say?

The only issue with that is it hasn't appeared to have scuppered Fosun FC down the road and the other Chinese-owned clubs in Spain and Italy.

He bet the farm (or more to the point the TV money) on getting up in two years. When that didn't work, the shitty-shoed berk had nowhere to turn.

It's totally appropriate that Randolph was hoodwinked by a chancer of that nature.

Was he hoodwinked or was he just desperate to sell and not fussed who to?

I would say the latter, and to be fair I don't remember any Lerner Out and Be Careful Who You Sell To protests.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 19, 2020, 12:47:26 PM
Has anyone on here ever had second thoughts about selling anything to anyone because of what they thought the buyer might do with it?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 19, 2020, 01:08:02 PM
I always thought the main issue was the Chinese Government changing its rules for taking money out which scuppered him transferring funds. I really don't know if he had any to transfer, who can say?

The only issue with that is it hasn't appeared to have scuppered Fosun FC down the road and the other Chinese-owned clubs in Spain and Italy.

He bet the farm (or more to the point the TV money) on getting up in two years. When that didn't work, the shitty-shoed berk had nowhere to turn.

It's totally appropriate that Randolph was hoodwinked by a chancer of that nature.

Was he hoodwinked or was he just desperate to sell and not fussed who to?

I would say the latter, and to be fair I don't remember any Lerner Out and Be Careful Who You Sell To protests.
Quite an achievement by Lerner to find an even worse owner than himself.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on October 19, 2020, 01:17:43 PM
Has anyone on here ever had second thoughts about selling anything to anyone because of what they thought the buyer might do with it?

Some club owners have exercised a duty of care and made sure where possible they have sold to decent new owners. Whether or not they would have sold to potentially dodgy owners if those were the only offers they received we will never know. The porn mob aren't stupid. They wanted the West Ham/Olympic stadium deal and just wanted shot of Small Heath. The knew full well Carson was dodgy but took the money and hung Small Heath out to dry.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Zouch Villa on October 19, 2020, 01:24:15 PM
Has anyone on here ever had second thoughts about selling anything to anyone because of what they thought the buyer might do with it?

I regretted selling my first bass guitar to a wannabe metal head.  In a moment of Spinal Tap-esque after gig bravado, he tried to set it alight but only succeeded in singeing his hair, got threatened by the landlord, so snapped the guitar's neck instead.

Would have happily offered Lerner free counsel on the importance of a sellers due diligence on the buyer.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 19, 2020, 02:21:37 PM
Has anyone on here ever had second thoughts about selling anything to anyone because of what they thought the buyer might do with it?

Some club owners have exercised a duty of care and made sure where possible they have sold to decent new owners. Whether or not they would have sold to potentially dodgy owners if those were the only offers they received we will never know. The porn mob aren't stupid. They wanted the West Ham/Olympic stadium deal and just wanted shot of Small Heath. The knew full well Carson was dodgy but took the money and hung Small Heath out to dry.
its just a matter of what scale of dodgyness
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on October 19, 2020, 03:07:35 PM
Has anyone on here ever had second thoughts about selling anything to anyone because of what they thought the buyer might do with it?

I regretted selling my first bass guitar to a wannabe metal head.  In a moment of Spinal Tap-esque after gig bravado, he tried to set it alight but only succeeded in singeing his hair, got threatened by the landlord, so snapped the guitar's neck instead.

Would have happily offered Lerner free counsel on the importance of a sellers due diligence on the buyer.

(Z)Ouch !
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on October 19, 2020, 03:26:16 PM
Anyway, enough of the chancers.

These pair must be delighted with the return on their investments so far.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 19, 2020, 05:12:42 PM
Anyway, enough of the chancers.

These pair must be delighted with the return on their investments so far.
I don’t think they will be seeing a financial return for sometime.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 19, 2020, 05:26:30 PM
These pair must be delighted with the return on their investments so far.

If Wes shares his daughter's feelings on us then I doubt they have any regrets so far. https://twitter.com/MedensEdens/status/1317922102633168897
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on October 19, 2020, 05:41:16 PM
Anyway, enough of the chancers.

These pair must be delighted with the return on their investments so far.
I don’t think they will be seeing a financial return for sometime.

I didn't mean in terms of financial, but I hope that's the case.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on October 19, 2020, 06:45:36 PM
These pair must be delighted with the return on their investments so far.

If Wes shares his daughter's feelings on us then I doubt they have any regrets so far. https://twitter.com/MedensEdens/status/1317922102633168897

Imagine if Jack and Mallory got married. And moved into Villa Park.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on October 19, 2020, 06:56:33 PM
These pair must be delighted with the return on their investments so far.

If Wes shares his daughter's feelings on us then I doubt they have any regrets so far. https://twitter.com/MedensEdens/status/1317922102633168897

Imagine if Jack and Mallory got married. And moved into Villa Park.

and called their first born Mason.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 19, 2020, 07:12:51 PM
Imagine if Jack and Mallory got married. And moved into Villa Park.

and called their first born Mason.

Given her name is Mallory surely Mount would be more likely.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 19, 2020, 07:17:12 PM
Imagine if Jack and Mallory got married. And moved into Villa Park.

and called their first born Mason.

Given her name is Mallory surely Mount would be more likely.

I'm pretty sure that this is a very clever, King Arthur-based joke but I'm around 1% away from realising why!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 19, 2020, 07:43:56 PM
I'm pretty sure that this is a very clever, King Arthur-based joke but I'm around 1% away from realising why!

No, a reference to George Mallory who died on (and may have been the first person to get to the summit of) Mount Everest.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 19, 2020, 07:49:48 PM
I'm pretty sure that this is a very clever, King Arthur-based joke but I'm around 1% away from realising why!

No, a reference to George Mallory who died on (and may have been the first person to get to the summit of) Mount Everest.

Well hang on, I'm still trying to make it relevant to Thomas Malory. As soon as I have something I'll be back.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on October 19, 2020, 10:20:46 PM
Malory Towers is the first book I remember my sister reading cica 1990 (by the content -generating collosus Enid Blyton).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on November 30, 2020, 02:20:16 PM
Great article on the owners in the athletic. (https://theathletic.com/2223968/2020/11/29/aston-villa-owners-edens-sawiris/)

Quote
The shirts of Aston Villa’s play-off winning heroes were already stained with champagne by the time owners Wes Edens and Nassef Sawiris made their way into a raucous Wembley dressing room.

Villa had achieved what for so long looked like the unthinkable; success in NSWE’s first season in control, and maybe more surprisingly less than a year after almost going into administration under the chaotic ownership of Tony Xia.

It’s no wonder Sawiris was feeling buoyant as he addressed the players with an uplifting and humorous speech, before offering to cover the cost of a group holiday should they wish to celebrate promotion in the weeks before the 2019-20 Premier League season began.

As many of the players had already arranged trips with their friends or partners, they politely chose not to take up the billionaire on his offer, but were warmed by the gesture regardless, much like they were by the pay rises that followed, the generous promotion bonus and, just for good measure, the commemorative watches that were also designed for each individual.

That day in the capital, where Villa squeezed past Derby County to seal a return to the top flight, was indeed a springboard for the heights they are now scaling. An exciting new era had begun and Sawiris, in a rare interview after the game, painted a picture of bright colours with his choice of words. “The sky is the limit,” he said. Villa’s current league standing suggests he was right.

The position the club had found itself in just 12 months earlier, after ending up on the wrong side of the 2018 make-or-break play-off clash with Fulham, was very different. Villa gambled the house on promotion but lost.

Sources tell The Athletic that Xia had stopped sending money over from China months before the struggles became public, but when an end-of-season tax bill went unpaid after that Wembley defeat, leaving Villa embarrassingly facing a winding-up order, the mess was crystal clear.

Other bills were also stacking up, so much so that the club took out a loan secured against the sale of a £4 million-valued staff car park just to clear some debt. Xia’s problems got so bad that at one stage he even asked wealthy supporters, including ex-chairman Doug Ellis, for £2 million to be used as working capital. With administration inevitable, Villa needed a saviour.

A number of parties had registered an interest in taking over but the joint venture by Sawiris and Edens was by far the most concrete and secure. In the boardroom of a London hotel, the deal was, according to one well-placed source, “thrashed out in record time”.

The proof of funds part was a breeze. While the pair were initially only taking on a 55 per cent share for £30 million, their “deep, deep pockets” were highlighted in the handing over of their accounts.

Despite a difficult year of ups and downs during the coronavirus pandemic, Sawiris, with his fortune built on the success of family-run Orascom Construction Industries, is still currently worth more than $6 billion according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index. Edens, a New York hedge fund investor, founder of Fortress Investment Group and the co-owner of the NBA’s Milwaukee Bucks, isn’t far behind at $4.3 billion.

They are, as one prominent figure put it, “proper billionaires with grand plans for this great club”.

Now, with full ownership, having bought out Xia’s remaining share back in August 2019, the aim is to establish Villa as a club that is striving for the top half rather than nervously looking over their shoulders at the bottom three.

It’s not their style to give it the big sell in public, which is why interviews have been brief and far between. “Actions speak louder than words,” says an associate, while another figure at the club also tells friends that he regularly “thanks his lucky stars” for NSWE. After all, the team is in the best shape for over a decade and the club’s financial status is as healthy as it’s ever been.  The owners are in for over £300 million and every penny that has been invested is debt-free. It’s a happy place to be at right now and that stems from the top.

It’s said that Sawiris and Edens’ relationship blossomed during social gatherings for the rich. The pair would discuss ideas for sporting projects and as longstanding football fans, they both harboured ambitions of taking over a club steeped in rich history.

Aston Villa, former European Cup winners and a founding member of the Football League, instantly appealed. That the club could only realistically improve on their Championship standing was another deciding factor, and both, like in their day jobs, believed they could take on a distressed asset and help lift the value.

Edens had previously held talks with David Beckham over potential investment into Inter Miami but English football was always the priority.

Putting Aston Villa back on the map and awakening the sleeping giant was the plan from the off, and Edens, in particular, was hooked.

“Wes immediately loved Villa Park, the William McGregor statue by the reception and the history of the club,” an insider says. “He would get pumped up for visits before COVID and loved the noise that the Holte End would generate. He’s not afraid to celebrate, either.”

An early sign of their wealth, albeit only a tiny investment in comparison to other multi-million-pound deals they have completed, was felt when they first visited the stadium with their respective families.

In the club shop, Sawiris, Egypt’s richest man, who also has a six per cent stake in Adidas, spent over £25,000 on merchandise; a care-free approach centred around purchasing one of everything. His family members often wear the training kit, while Edens also relaxes in Villa colours.

“Wes is a cool character. He’s your ‘flip-flops in the office after the gym’ type of guy,” a source says.

The 59-year-old, a keen horse-rider, grew up on a ranch in Montana and is also into mountaineering. He’s become more cosmopolitan in recent years: last month he purchased a futuristic Manhattan condo that was originally priced at $50 million but sold for just $20.2 million. Sources say he’s developing real estate in both California and Florida, and there’s his on-going plans to re-popularise train travel in the USA.

“At this point in my life I am more of a builder,” Edens told Forbes when discussing the grand rail-travel plans that are already underway.

Statements like that will appease Villa supporters who had become disillusioned until the takeover. The sense of drift under Randy Lerner soon turned into a sharp decline and, as previously stated, by the end of Xia’s reign it was a full-blown crisis.

Now, though, there’s a real purpose and sense of adventure.

Ask any player past and present about the direction under NSWE and they will offer up only positive thoughts.

“They have Aston Villa’s best interests at heart and that’s all you can ask for as a fan, a player or someone else involved in the football club,” Mile Jedinak tells The Athletic. “There is a very clear vision for the future which is very exciting.”

Ex-captain, Tommy Elphick, echoes the views, adding: “I was at the club when they first came in so I heard about the vision. They want to take the football club forward, that’s for sure.”


Edens and Sawiris (centre) celebrated in style at Wembley last summer (Photo: Getty)
Aside from the dressing room speech that raised the roof after the play-off win, the owners haven’t had too many other intimate interactions with the team.

Sawiris spends most of his time living in London. The 59-year-old watched on as Villa beat Fulham 3-0 at Craven Cottage in September and then Arsenal by the same scoreline soon after. Edens, who is based in the US, hasn’t been over since the start of the pandemic, but without fail they both always ask for a video link to watch the game, and then listen in to the in-house commentary that is provided through Villa’s official media channels.

Both men have immersed themselves into the project and remain fully engaged.

At games, injured players and those on the sidelines have occasionally held discussions with the owners. Naturally, the players sharpen up alongside the money men by reducing the amount of time they spend on their smartphone and removing earphones. It is said to not be uncommon for those conversations to explore the finer details of the game.

“The co-owners are friendly and engaging with the players. They like to find out more about them,” a source says. “No doubt Jack (Grealish) is their favourite. They love him. Some of the older lads from previous seasons used to wind Jack up about it.”

It was the decision not to cash in on the captain, when Tottenham Hotspur came calling early into NSWE’s tenure, that sent out a clear message. The new men in charge would not be bullied into selling their star players.

Just weeks after Grealish and fellow prized asset James Chester had been told that they would be moved on to raise funds under the beleaguered former regime, a dramatic U-turn was performed as soon as the club changed hands.

It’s no secret that, for a period, Grealish was the object of scorn; an ambitious attacker left disappointed at missing out on a move to a Big Six club in the Champions League. But after signing a new contract to become the highest-paid player at the club, he re-aligned his focus and embarked on the promotion mission.

Sawiris set about developing a personal relationship with Grealish early on. He sent text messages detailing his importance to the team and explained the ambitious plans that would take Villa forward. Those plans were reiterated this summer when it was again Sawiris who convinced Grealish to sign another new contract via a lengthy FaceTime call.

“The way Nassef spoke about the hopes he’s got for this club was crucial,” Grealish said after deciding to stay. “I believe in the project that they want to go forward with.”

Another big success story early on was hiring the right chief executive.

Connected through a mutual friend, Sawiris targeted Christian Purslow as the next piece of the jigsaw. He wanted an experienced operator to take control of the day-to-day running of the club.

Initially, Purslow was reluctant. After spells as the managing director of Liverpool and head of global commercial activities at Chelsea, a drop down into the Championship with Villa just didn’t appeal. He was also considering taking a year out with his wife to travel the world. New York would be the first destination followed by Paris and then short spells in some of their other favourite cities.

A trip to Greece may not have been on the agenda but when Sawiris called him to discuss all things claret and blue from his sun-soaked holiday home, an agreement was quickly struck. Purslow was said to be so enthused by the owners’ vision for the future that the opportunity was too great to turn down. His mind was made up before he even boarded the plane home.

There was, however, one small condition; that he became a minority investor, rather than just the CEO. His stake in the club remains and, two-and-a-half years on, he’s glad he was persuaded as Villa are already on their way to establishing themselves back in the Premier League. Purslow is also credited with helping make a lot of it happen.

It hasn’t always been sunshine and roses, though. Villa have had to make some ruthless decisions along the way to get back into the groove.

In the pre-Purslow days and when the owners were settling in, Sawiris leaned on super-agent Jorge Mendes, who he had known prior to the takeover. Jesus Garcia Pitarch, also known as Suso, came in as sporting director on the recommendation of Mendes, The Athletic understands, while the Portuguese also put forward two of his clients – Anwar El Ghazi and Andre Moreira (remember him?) – as potential signings.

Confusingly, Moreira turned up at the club’s Bodymoor Heath training facility alongside the owners in July 2018, on a day they were visiting to take in Villa’s pre-season game with West Ham United at Walsall’s Banks’s Stadium. Steve Bruce, the manager at the time, however, knew nothing about the goalkeeper’s arrival. The on-loan Atletico Madrid man would ultimately play just two Carabao Cup games and, having looked completely out of his depth, was moved on in the next window.

It is suggested that Mendes’ involvement, as well as that of other helpful agents, was important in helping Villa through a period of transition between recruitment models. Before then, Bruce had been acting as manager, sporting director and talent-spotter all in one, until Purslow finally came in to ease the burden.

While El Ghazi remains at the club, albeit a bit-part player these days, Villa have not signed another player managed by Mendes since. Recruitment is also becoming more diversified and moving away from an agent-led approach.

Purslow felt it was time to relieve Bruce of his duties after the 3-3 draw with Preston North End in October 2018, and decided to bring in Dean Smith.

Suso would also leave at the end of the 2019-20 season and be replaced by Johan Lange, the 41-year-old Dane.

Alongside performance director Jeremy Oliver, who was recommended specifically by Edens, Villa are now in a position where all the senior positions of importance have been decided by the current owners.

It isn’t just the men’s first team that draws the owners’ attention, either. Villa have ripped up everything that wasn’t working in the academy and put a new structure in place under the leadership of development chief, Mark Harrison, the man hired from West Bromwich Albion. The women’s team are also moving forward after winning promotion to the WSL last year. Both Edens and Sawiris check in regularly on their progress and are prepared to invest more funds into the team in January.

“The club are fantastic,” women’s coach Gemma Davies tells The Athletic. “They give us anything and everything that we need to be successful and it’s done in a really grounded way. There’s a genuine feel that everybody is valued and that comes from the very top.”

The on-field success; promotion, survival, and now a top-half position in the two-and-a-bit seasons under NSWE’s watch has quickly endeared them into the supporters’ hearts.

Fans are eternally grateful for the transformation and the pledge to continue investing and building for the future.

There are the little things, too; like giving Villa Park the lick of paint it long needed, or upgrading the hospitality areas in the stadium. The new high-performance centre at Bodymoor Heath is described as a “phenomenal piece of work” and while their hand was forced by the HS2 high-speed rail line cutting through the old academy pitches, necessitating a re-build, credit still goes to those in charge for transforming it since.

There’s also a willingness to give something back. Sawiris is deeply religious and connected to his Christian faith. He was keen to help out the homeless when he discovered, alongside Purslow, the extent of the problem in Birmingham city centre. The Villa Foundation now provides a deep-layered support package to help tackle the issue and remain active in the community.

Although the co-owners are not always visible, they are said to be remarkably good at empowering people.

Villa are around £35 million down in revenue due to the pandemic, yet they continue to pay matchday staff despite not requiring their services. Other staff who are unable to come into work because of the protocols in place have continued to be paid in full. The club has not used the government’s furlough scheme.

What might have happened had Villa not won promotion, or succumbed to relegation last season, is not worth thinking about now.

Villa managed to comply with the EFL’s profit and sustainability rules by selling Villa Park for £56.7 million to NSWE Stadium Ltd, a company controlled by the two billionaires back in May 2019, but despite the crafty move, the following set of accounts still showed a £69 million loss and that would not have been sustainable in the Championship.

For all their good work so far, maybe the real test of the owners’ resolve would have come in adversity. That said, neither billionaire set up in the Midlands to fail. Fortune often favours the brave and the owners have attacked this challenge with purpose.

Edens has experienced more lows than his business partner, Sawiris, over the years, but has since come back stronger.

During the financial crisis of 2008, Fortress was hammered by declines in the value of its largest private-equity investments, including subprime losses of several hundred million dollars, according to the Wall Street Journal. Clever investments since have led to Edens being labelled as the “king of subprime lending” by the same media outlet.

The way the owners have quickly rebuilt a failing club in the West Midlands is the most impressive.

But while Villa have invested heavily and smashed their transfer record on two separate occasions — Wesley Moraes (£22 million) and Ollie Watkins (£28 million) — the spending has not been careless.

Around £11 million was pumped in to help the club to promotion in 2018-19, then a further £120 million was spent on signing 12 players ahead of the Premier League return. It’s important to note that Villa needed quantity as well as quality due to a threadbare squad in the summer of 2019, so remaining competitive in the top flight by signing players at an average of £10 million per man was always going to be tough.

Also, only a handful of those players were initially on contracts exceeding £45,000 a week, and only now, following a season of stability, have Villa really started to splash the cash by paying big transfer fees and handing out lucrative deals.

Grealish is the club’s highest-paid player ever and both Watkins and Emi Martinez earn more than any player did last season. England international Tyrone Mings also received a significant bump up this summer.

Villa made a statement by blowing every other club out of the water to sign Watkins, and they paid more than initially expected to get both Martinez and Matt Cash — but already both are proving to be good value for money. It was also evident, when other clubs were scrapping around for signings on deadline day, that Villa had seriously got their act together with a careful and considered plan that meant they had all their business completed way before the late trolley dash.

The owners are seriously well-organised and efficient. When they needed to move on players like Birkir Bjarnason, Jota and Orjan Nyland, they were prepared to pay up large percentage of their contracts in order to free up space for new recruits.

Villa’s global reach has increased since NSWE took over, too, and that’s largely down to a strategic and deliberate plan. The club have dipped into new markets by signing overseas talent. The Egyptian winger Trezeguet has a larger social media following than the club, for example, and was a signing his fellow countryman Sawiris was particularly excited about. It was Trezeguet who won the stoppage-time penalty that Mo Salah converted to send Egypt to their first World Cup finals in 28 years. They don’t forget things like that in the Middle East.

Wesley became the first Brazilian to sign for Villa, and his team-mate Douglas Luiz now plays for the national team. Marvelous Nakamba (Zimbabwe) and Bertrand Traore (Burkina Faso) have a loyal following in Africa, while Mbwana Samatta, admittedly a signing that didn’t work out, increased the club’s Instagram following by 150,000 on the day he signed back in January.

There is also now crossover between Edens’ sporting interests in the UK and the USA. Some staff within the Milwaukee Bucks organisation now follow Villa with interest. Edens even helped arrange a Villa Park visit for one staff member.

Villa have started to attract better commercial deals and link up with higher-profile partners in recent times. Supporters often ask why the club hasn’t connected with Adidas yet, given that Sawiris is the sports brand’s largest single shareholder. The simple answer is because it isn’t as lucrative or personalised, at this stage, as other kit deals. Sawiris also tends to keep his businesses separate, and for now, Kappa is serving the club well until 2022.

Two men from two very different backgrounds, Edens and Sawiris have stacks of other business interests that keep them occupied around the clock. Both are also now in the Special Purpose Acquisition (or SPAC) game – a go-to method for wealthy Americans to raise money for takeovers this year.

So is Villa just a part of their portfolio?

“No doubt they see it as a symbol of status, owning a Premier League  club,” was one suggestion put to The Athletic. “But look what they do in their day jobs. They turn around failing businesses, and that’s what they’re doing at Villa. They want to be seen as the men who made a difference.”

Edens’ crucial experience of co-owning the Milwaukee Bucks since 2013 has certainly helped shape some of Villa’s decision-making.

It was in elite sports where he met Oliver, who started out in Australian rules football but honed his skills elsewhere. Edens was particularly impressed with his attention to detail in behavioural factors and made him the performance director at Villa. Oliver now oversees the whole backroom staff operation, both male and female, and has input in training plans, schedules, logistics and marketing. He helped mastermind the design of the club’s new performance centre and was even included in the team picture that was shared on the club’s official social media channels last week.

Like Villa — a basket case of a club when the last changing of hands was completed — the Bucks of 2013 were also an underperforming outfit.

Without a play-off series win since 2001, fans were frustrated and wanted more than a middling team. Recruitment had been poor and the Bucks couldn’t take advantage of high-end draft picks unless they decided to bottom out. That, however, was never in the plan.

Time and patience was needed to get the franchise moving. Edens, alongside fellow investor, Marc Lasry, secured a contract to build a new stadium, Fiserv Forum, which officially opened in August 2018, a month after the takeover across the pond at Villa had been completed.

By then, Giannis Antetokounmpo, much like Grealish at Villa, was very much a superstar. His transformation into the NBA’s Most Valuable Player in both 2019 and 2020 coincided with the Bucks compiling the Eastern Conference’s best regular-season record each year. Achieving such success without his individual brilliance would have been almost impossible, but that’s not to diminish the contributions around the sides, and one key decision Edens insisted on making.

In the summer of 2017, the Bucks decided to recruit a new general manager and Edens, approaching the end of his five-year period as the head of the board of governers (it rotates in a co-ownership set-up) insisted on having the final say.

Lasry and fellow investor Jamie Dinan wanted to promote assistant Justin Zanik, the current GM at the Utah Jazz, into the senior position but Edens had other ideas. With the power to decide, he somewhat surprisingly moved for Jon Horst; a young, but long-serving “details guy” in an almost unheard-of role way down the organisational structure.

This appointment would take on greater significance in years to come as it would inspire Edens to move for Lange at Villa. More on that later.

Naturally, though, the decision in Milwaukee was met with scepticism. Horst was expected to struggle and his underachievement would fall exclusively on Edens’ shoulders. What followed, however, was a sensational upturn.

Horst, despite his perceived lack of experience and know-how, got stuck into the job and made bold and aggressive trades. There were countless success stories; Brook Lopez, a centre who shot more three-pointers than any other of his kind in NBA history, and clever trades for Eric Bledsoe and George Hill.

Horst showed how he could pull a team together with limited resources, and crucially, it was also his decision to hire coach Mike Budenholzer, the man who was able to get the best out of Giannis as the Bucks topped the table for the past two seasons. In 2019 Horst was named the NBA’s executive of the year, clearly showing that Edens had unearthed a gem.

Critics who questioned his decision making at the time admit that, even if Horst can be a bit sloppy, he has been overwhelmingly successful in the lead role, but the same question still crops up; Could the Bucks have done it without Giannis?

A formidable talent with international flair and appeal, Giannis, an immigrant of Nigerian descent born and raised in Greece, has put the Bucks on the map, globally.

Edens has witnessed first-hand how an outstanding individual can make a huge difference to one team both competitively and commercially, which is why he was so passionate about pushing the boat out to keep Grealish at Villa.

It was Grealish, remember, who persuaded Tammy Abraham to complete his loan spell from Chelsea at Villa and shun a move to Wolves in January 2019 in the middle of Villa’s assault on promotion. Without Abraham’s goals in the second half of the season, there’s no way the club would be in the position it is now. It was also Grealish who convinced Ross Barkley to join in the most recent transfer deadline. See how this works?

For all the money spent since the takeover, striking a deal to keep the captain at the club was by far the most important. It’s understood, however, that it was Sawiris leading the charm offensive on this summer’s FaceTime conversation that persuaded the England international to stay.

Edens has had a big say in getting others on board, though, including Lange.

If the process of hiring a GM at the Bucks was, in some external quarters, perceived to be flawed, filling the sporting director role at Villa was quite the opposite.

Ultimately, Edens got it right, and even if the process was questioned, Horst’s clever thinking and use of statistical data highlighted the need for a similar approach at Villa.

In a Q&A last year, Edens suggested that football as a sport has “got a long way to go in terms of analytics data,” compared to the standards seen in the NBA.

“It’s something we have to make a big investment into,” Edens added. “If you have great information, most of the decisions are pretty darn simple.”

The plan at Villa was always to leave Purslow in charge of negotiating transfer deals and putting the big moves together. Any incoming sporting director would be a support act; someone to crunch the numbers, pull all the departments together and collate information for the owners to view.

But instead of Edens choosing the man like he did with Horst, the club went through a rigorous checking and challenging period to ensure they got the right guy.

First, a shortlist of three was drawn up with Purslow overseeing the early interviews. Lange quickly became the outstanding candidate on the back of his ability to recommend low-cost players to his former club, FC Copenhagen, and subsequently sell them on for profit. His background in data was also a big pull.

The aim at Villa is not to flip players and move them on to bigger clubs, but more, like Horst and the Bucks, to identify talent that will enhance the team in years to come.

Lange also impressed during the interviewing stage and with the presentation he made to the owners. It became clear that he would happily remain in the shadows and get on with the task at hand.

According to those close by, Lange has already settled in well. He has started to put in a more structured process around recruitment. There’s now a strategy developing, where previously the operation had been more agent-led. Also, when Lange talks about targets, he uses data to underpin his findings which appeals to the owners.

As the club decided against recruiting another attacker in the last window, there’s likely to be money available to fill the gap by investing again in January. Smith will still pick the players but Lange is expected to contribute with other options to consider.

The owners like to stay in tune with squad developments and have asked Smith to present a detailed analysis of the first-team picture, and the players coming through the under-23 team, in transfer windows gone by. While they’re prepared to invest, they want to be sure that all the due diligence has been done in advance so that their money is going to good use.

Developing players is also very much at the forefront of their mind. It has been from the start and remains, fitting in with the early statement they released upon completion of the takeover.

“Our goal is to bring sustainable success to the club, building on its rich history while respecting its loyal fan base and unique culture,” it read. For all the bluster and broken promises of previous years, maybe the next part of the statement was the most important.

“We understand that we are stewards of Aston Villa on behalf of the fans and we take that responsibility seriously,” it read.

With the deep investment, the commitment to the community, the focus on the future, the daily drive, and the proof that they’re in it for the long haul, it feels like NSWE are going about it in the right way.

What’s most exciting, though, is that this is just the start.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on November 30, 2020, 03:40:03 PM
The Athletic actually rocks ! I just don't have the time to read half the articles but it's decent value if you're footy-addled.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on November 30, 2020, 03:45:55 PM
Yeah, it's really good for a good number of sports.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 30, 2020, 04:12:42 PM
Excellent article thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 30, 2020, 04:21:51 PM
Thanks for that, Ger.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: luke95 on November 30, 2020, 04:47:12 PM
That article needs posting elsewhere,  like the ...... Smallheath forum .
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on November 30, 2020, 05:47:41 PM
That article needs posting elsewhere,  like the ...... Smallheath forum .
You think that they'd be able to manage an article of that length ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on November 30, 2020, 06:15:43 PM
Great article on the owners in the Athletic.

A friend sent it to me earlier so thanks for posting it. As owners go they're alright I suppose.

Let's face it the piece couldn't be more positive if they'd engaged a PR firm to write it. :)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan For Life on November 30, 2020, 06:16:45 PM
That’s a fantastic read.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: West Derby Villan on November 30, 2020, 06:43:51 PM
Great article, thanks for posting Ger, much appreciated
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: in exile on December 01, 2020, 10:59:28 AM
£25k in the club shop...what did he buy, 3 shirts?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Border villan on December 01, 2020, 11:01:31 AM
£25k in the club shop...what did he buy, 3 shirts?

At the temple of doom he could have bought the whole club for that much and still have change.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: JD on December 04, 2020, 07:05:27 PM
That's a brilliant article. A very interesting insight.

Thanks for posting it Ger.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 04, 2020, 08:28:28 PM
Does anyone else still pinch themselves that these two are our owners given we came minutes from becoming Sheffield Wednesday or Sunderland?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ian. on December 04, 2020, 08:46:44 PM
Superb article Ger, thanks for posting.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dcdavecollett on December 05, 2020, 12:20:48 AM
I still wonder if, without them, we would have been Bolton or Bury!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on December 05, 2020, 10:17:00 AM
Saturday morning with no Villa game and pretty fed up with everything. Then I saw this! Cheered me right up. Fantastic article  about our great club and brilliant new owners.Thanks for posting Ger. This really drives home just what a sliding doors moment that play off final against Fulham was. And that quote "we understand that are stewards of Aston Villa on behalf of the fans and we take that responsibility very seriously"
That's such humbling statement from the guys that have literally saved the very existence of Aston Villa. And next time I hear someone banging on about how rubbish they  think certain players are I will quote the final line in the article "what's most exciting is that this is just the beginning"
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: p_ad on December 05, 2020, 10:56:23 AM
Great article, it's been said before but was the loss to Fulham our best defeat ever
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on December 05, 2020, 11:19:44 AM
That article needs posting elsewhere,  like the ...... Smallheath forum .
Don't you think 2020 has been bad enough already? We could do without the whole of Solihull self combusting.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 09, 2020, 10:48:18 PM
Mr. Sawiris up to 28th in the list of the richest owners in sport (3rd in the PL).

https://www.olbg.com/us/insights/owners-rich-list

Couldn't find Xuandong Ren in it although he might make a billionaires list if it was denominated in Dong.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 09, 2020, 11:54:37 PM
Mr. Sawiris up to 28th in the list of the richest owners in sport (3rd in the PL).

https://www.olbg.com/us/insights/owners-rich-list

Couldn't find Xuandong Ren in it although he might make a billionaires list if it was denominated in Dong.

It has stick in the throats of the cross city beggars that literally 24 hours that their status as Tramps in Perpetuity was cemented for all to see with the closing of their academy and their official club statment certifying their regional irrelevance, that we announce a magnificent new academy and then one of our two billionaire owners is even filthier rich. Such that he could buy their club with the money he drops down the back of his settee.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on December 10, 2020, 12:08:38 AM
Let's hope he treats himself (and by himself, I mean us) to something nice in the January sales.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 10, 2020, 12:10:52 AM
Mr. Sawiris up to 28th in the list of the richest owners in sport (3rd in the PL).

https://www.olbg.com/us/insights/owners-rich-list

Couldn't find Xuandong Ren in it although he might make a billionaires list if it was denominated in Dong.

It has stick in the throats of the cross city beggars that literally 24 hours that their status as Tramps in Perpetuity was cemented for all to see with the closing of their academy and their official club statment certifying their regional irrelevance, that we announce a magnificent new academy and then one of our two billionaire owners is even filthier rich. Such that he could buy their club with the money he drops down the back of his settee.

The thought had crossed my mind. ;)

Surprised that Wes wasn't on the list as well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on December 10, 2020, 12:45:45 PM
They're a bit out of date with that list as Nassef Sawiris is now currently worth 8 billion dollars according to Forbes (Kroenke at Arsenal is now 8.3 billion).

I think Edens' worth is harder to pin down because a lot of his work and investment is through Fortress.  The only tangible things financial journalists have to work on are his share in the Bucks and the money he made from selling Fortress to Softbank.  What is unclear is how much of a stake he has in the recent entities he set up  (for example, New Fortress Energy and Brightline trains). 

New Fortress Energy floated a year or two back and currently has a market cap of 8 billion dollars - what that means for Wes, I don't know.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 10, 2020, 12:49:18 PM
They're a bit out of date with that list as Nassef Sawiris is now currently worth 8 billion dollars according to Forbes (Kroenke at Arsenal is now 8.3 billion).

I think Edens' worth is harder to pin down because a lot of his work and investment is through Fortress.  The only tangible things financial journalists have to work on are his share in the Bucks and the money he made from selling Fortress to Softbank.  What is unclear is how much of a stake he has in the recent entities he set up  (for example, New Fortress Energy and Brightline trains). 

New Fortress Energy floated a year or two back and currently has a market cap of 8 billion dollars - what that means for Wes, I don't know.
Its extremel difficult to get a view  on Americans wealth unless you are the IRS.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: CT Villan on December 10, 2020, 03:54:28 PM
Its extremel difficult to get a view  on Americans wealth unless you are the IRS.

or a client of Mossack Fonseca.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on December 10, 2020, 05:35:42 PM
Great article, it's been said before but was the loss to Fulham our best defeat ever

And on the other side of the coin in the main it hasn't been a great two or three years for Fulham.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on December 12, 2020, 02:55:44 PM
According to Bloomberg, NNS (the main investment holding of Nassef Sawiris) has revealed it has purchased 5% of Madison Square Garden Company (the owners of the New York Knicks and New York Rangers).  This makes him currently the  third largest block investor in the organisation and it is anticipated he will increase his stock share further in the new year.  MSGC is currently valued at about 4.3 billion dollars.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 15, 2020, 09:26:29 PM
Wes splashing the cash on his second team. https://www.bbc.com/sport/basketball/55325552
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on December 15, 2020, 09:29:52 PM
He was mentioned in the article from a few days ago about the owners. They were comparing that guy with Grealish in terms of being a star player and what it means to keep him.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 15, 2020, 09:53:56 PM
Giannis to the Bucks is precisely what Jack Grealish is to Villa. Except Jack has the added bonus of being local. Wes clearly looked at it the same way. Good for them if they are a rival to my Raptors.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on December 16, 2020, 08:49:03 AM
Saturday morning with no Villa game and pretty fed up with everything. Then I saw this! Cheered me right up. Fantastic article  about our great club and brilliant new owners.Thanks for posting Ger. This really drives home just what a sliding doors moment that play off final against Fulham was. And that quote "we understand that are stewards of Aston Villa on behalf of the fans and we take that responsibility very seriously"
That's such humbling statement from the guys that have literally saved the very existence of Aston Villa. And next time I hear someone banging on about how rubbish they  think certain players are I will quote the final line in the article "what's most exciting is that this is just the beginning"
i think Lerner made a similar comment about just being a steward when he bought the club. These guys look capable of carrying it out well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 16, 2020, 10:29:42 PM
https://youtu.be/0wkE8L-y_S4

I’ve never seen this.  I love these owners.  Hope they stay with us and stick to the plans.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on December 16, 2020, 10:47:20 PM
Nice to see that again - so little footage of them speaking as owners, (did they give a brief Pravda interview after taking over too?).

Wes doesn't fcuk about as we've seen with him splashing the cash on his NBA superstar this week. If we're comfortably top ten after the Christmas games I wonder will they look to make a statement signing in January.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on December 17, 2020, 08:50:12 AM
The Greek basketball lad is going to be getting paid $40m a year.  Holy shit!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on December 17, 2020, 08:52:36 AM
I kno rite?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on December 17, 2020, 10:22:09 AM
The Greek basketball lad is going to be getting paid $40m a year.  Holy shit!

I reckon a session or two on the rack to stretch me out a foot or so would help me get the attributes needed. Riss, would you mind going first though?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on December 17, 2020, 10:34:14 AM
The Greek basketball lad is going to be getting paid $40m a year.  Holy shit!

For what is essentially netball!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on December 17, 2020, 10:42:29 AM
The Greek basketball lad is going to be getting paid $40m a year.  Holy shit!

For what is essentially netball!

Except they are allowed to drop it deliberately too and move about a bit..
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on December 17, 2020, 10:53:44 AM
The Greek basketball lad is going to be getting paid $40m a year.  Holy shit!

I reckon a session or two on the rack to stretch me out a foot or so would help me get the attributes needed. Riss, would you mind going first though?

Part of me does think that that they're paid a fortune just for being very tall!



Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 17, 2020, 02:14:53 PM
The Greek basketball lad is going to be getting paid $40m a year.  Holy shit!

I reckon a session or two on the rack to stretch me out a foot or so would help me get the attributes needed. Riss, would you mind going first though?

Part of me does think that that they're paid a fortune just for being very tall!





Well erm...yeh. Have you seen where they put the basket? If only changing lightbulbs and getting cats out of trees was just as well rewarded.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 17, 2020, 05:38:39 PM
Part of me does think that that they're paid a fortune just for being very tall!

It always tickled me that the favourite sport in The Philippines is basketball. Talk about not playing to your strengths.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy65 on December 17, 2020, 08:23:18 PM
Dear Owners

Please get your cheque book and out and buy a proven finisher in January. Do that and keep our top men like Jack, Emmie and Ross fit and We could finish top 6

Regards, Rudy
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on December 19, 2020, 04:17:35 PM
Maybe Cc in Santa just to improve our chances.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: CT on December 19, 2020, 04:24:46 PM
Maybe Cc in Santa just to improve our chances.

Boris just adjusted his transfer window to one day, so it’s unlikely he can help now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on January 22, 2021, 10:33:17 AM
We are in a healthy position with what we owe the owners.  Link to table  (https://twitter.com/LaneWitton/status/1352543428723269633?s=19)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SheffieldVillain on January 22, 2021, 10:36:43 AM
We are in a healthy position with what we owe the owners.  Link to table  (https://twitter.com/LaneWitton/status/1352543428723269633?s=19)

Blimey, so according to this the only Premier League club not in debt? That's fantastic, if so.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on January 22, 2021, 10:39:11 AM
We are in a healthy position with what we owe the owners.  Link to table  (https://twitter.com/LaneWitton/status/1352543428723269633?s=19)

Blimey, so according to this the only Premier League club not in debt? That's fantastic, if so.

Yes that's what it looks like to me. I am not sure if that means we have £6.7m in the bank as (  ) has always meant minus on a balance sheet, but I'm not sure what it means in this context. Risso?

Either way, looks healthy and you can see why Lampard is on the block!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dave P on January 22, 2021, 10:56:52 AM
This is up to season 18-19 so a big spend when we came up plus covid might alter this but even so thats amazing.  Especially when you see that Sheffield United who came up with us have had to take out a loan and look very likely to go down, you see how finely balanced these figures look.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dave P on January 22, 2021, 10:59:14 AM
Yes that's what it looks like to me. I am not sure if that means we have £6.7m in the bank as (  ) has always meant minus on a balance sheet, but I'm not sure what it means in this context. Risso?

I'm reading it as our cash minus our debt leaves us with £6.7 in the black.  Every other club is in the red.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on January 22, 2021, 11:01:10 AM
The last set of accounts show £22m in the bank, and nothing owed to the owners as they inject all cash as share capital.  In short, pretty well the perfect owners.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Astnor on January 22, 2021, 11:02:51 AM
Yes that's what it looks like to me. I am not sure if that means we have £6.7m in the bank as (  ) has always meant minus on a balance sheet, but I'm not sure what it means in this context. Risso?

I'm reading it as our cash minus our debt leaves us with £6.7 in the black.  Every other club is in the red.
6,7 is what we have bid for Sanson, make sense. Good news.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dave P on January 22, 2021, 11:09:43 AM
Has anybody checked small heath alliance, molineux mix or the bristol city forum to see if there is a thread on this?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aev on January 22, 2021, 11:15:51 AM
Has anybody checked small heath alliance, molineux mix or the bristol city forum to see if there is a thread on this?

Good point It would be helpful to know what exactly is going on and what these numbers actually mean.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on January 22, 2021, 11:37:54 AM
Has anybody checked small heath alliance, molineux mix or the bristol city forum to see if there is a thread on this?

Good point It would be helpful to know what exactly is going on and what these numbers actually mean.

All of those mentioned above only know how to read minus figures on a balance sheet. Anything in the plus column is totally alien to them.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 22, 2021, 11:59:54 AM
The last set of accounts show £22m in the bank, and nothing owed to the owners as they inject all cash as share capital.  In short, pretty well the perfect owners.
Very good indeed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on January 22, 2021, 02:32:33 PM
We're donating laptops to eradicate digital poverty in the city.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on January 22, 2021, 02:42:38 PM
Has anybody checked small heath alliance, molineux mix or the bristol city forum to see if there is a thread on this?

Good point It would be helpful to know what exactly is going on and what these numbers actually mean.

VillaDawg has been quelling football financial fires for the past decade on rival sites, taking up much of his time which may explain his absence from our forum. Top Dawg!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on January 23, 2021, 09:14:48 AM
Our owners are undoubtedly fantastic but more because they're both gazillionaires and are willing to spend to make us better, rather than because they choose to put money in to the club as equity rather than debt.

Take Chelsea for example. They officially owe Abramovich over £1bn, but unless you think he's going to ask for it back any time soon and bankrupt his own club it's pretty meaningless in isolation. More important is how much more money the owners have got and whether the club are FFP compliant.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 08, 2021, 06:45:24 PM
Quote
Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens' Aston Villa backing reaches £400 million as Villa Park development paused

Aston Villa have been given another three months to file their 2019/20 finances to Companies House. Here, we take a look at the NSWE journey, including news surrounding exciting developments at Bodymoor Heath and Villa Park

By Ashley Preece Club Writer - 17:16, 8 FEB 2021

(https://i2-prod.birminghammail.co.uk/article15710844.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/0_JS158022983.jpg)
Wes Edens, co-owner Aston Villa

Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens have pumped around £400 million into Aston Villa since initially buying their controlling stake back in the summer of 2018.

Villa are due to release their full accounts for 2019/2020 by June of this year after the government granted companies a three-month extension due to the ongoing effect of the pandemic.

On March 3 of last year, Villa posted a loss of £111,776,896 for the financial year between May 2018 and May 2019 following their final season in the Championship.

Promotion to the Premier League followed with Sawiris and Edens paying off Tony Xia's £30 million debt he owed previous owner Randy Lerner. Following that, Xia's role as a director was terminated on August 2, 2019 with NSWE obtaining full control having previously paid £30 million for a 55 per cent stake upon their arrival. The pair also paid off a missed tax bill worth £4 million which could have resulted in Villa filing for liquidation in 2018.

In June 2019, though, it was NSWE who purchased Villa Park for £56.7 million to help with the club's accounts before bankrolling Dean Smith's summer overhaul as he assembled a new squad by bringing in 12 players for £130 million. Villa also added the permanent addition of striker Mbwana Samatta for £9.45 million in January of last year following the injury to Wesley.

Villa, of course, have had to take the hit on their gate receipts for the past 12 months which, according to Christian Purslow, cost the club around £1 million per home game. Villa's gate receipts for 2018/2019, for reference, stood at £12,745,422.

Despite the 11 month-long pandemic NSWE have continued to back Smith in the transfer market with Villa spending £75 million on Ollie Watkins, Matty Cash, Emi Martinez and Bertrand Traore last summer while they're also bankrolling Ross Barkley's season-long loan from Chelsea. Morgan Sanson was added just last month as well for £14 million as Villa took advantage of financial uncertainty surrounding Ligue 1 clubs.

Purslow, meanwhile, outlined how he was "absolutely thrilled" that NSWE sanctioned the Sanson transfer knowing the deal was "on more favourable terms" given the financial crisis in France and in football in general.

This season, NSWE have added £87 million to Villa's accounts following injections of cash on September 24 (£30 million), October 7 (£12 million), October 9 (£25 million) and October 21 (£20 million) with Smith being backed in every one of his five transfer windows to date totalling £240 million in signings.

"We're thankful that we've got two very good owners who have got this football club on a sound footing now," Smith said just last week. "We want to continue to be a progressive club. (NSWE) have been successful for a reason. They've got an idea of how a football club can be successful and sustainable. The idea is to build upon what we've got and be a successful and sustainable football club."

(https://i2-prod.birminghammail.co.uk/article15710744.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/0_JS158396551.jpg)
Aston Villa co-owner Nassef Sawiris

In terms of off the pitch, Villa used every bit of their HS2 compensation to build their impressive new £14 million academy facility last year. As for the first-team, the all-new performance centre - an impressive state-of-the-art gym extension - has opened at Bodymoor Heath following a project that cost in the region of £6 million.

At Villa Park, Birmingham City Council approved demolition work in August 2019 for Villa to knock down the current ticket office, club store and 'Stumps' building in preparation for a giant new superstore, museum and possible hotel. Due to the pandemic, plans remain on hold.

Just a stone's throw away from the North Stand on Witton Road is where Villa want to build a new inner-city academy aimed at targeting and developing young talent in nearby and underprivileged catchment areas. The plans include a full-size indoor 3G pitch, an outdoor and floodlit 3G pitch as well as six changing rooms, an office, parents lounge and suitable storage. A planning decision on that exciting proposal is expected on February 22.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on February 08, 2021, 06:47:39 PM
The new store/museum sounds interesting, but no plans submitted yet as far as we know.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on February 08, 2021, 06:51:04 PM
They have spent this much they might as well Chuck a few more quid and build a new north stand ! 🤔😀
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 08, 2021, 07:05:17 PM
I'm not asking much, but I'd like Messi, please. Even if only for a couple of seasons.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 08, 2021, 07:49:43 PM
It’ll start to become more sustainable provided we stay up for the next few seasons. I think they pick up about £130m each season in TV revenue.  So that investment pays for itself in four or five seasons but I would’ve thought they’ll keep investing.  Feel really sorry for them in some respects that our upturn has coincided with no gate receipts. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on February 08, 2021, 07:59:12 PM
The near miss/new investment produces the response “gulp”. In a thankful way.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on February 08, 2021, 08:03:56 PM
I'm not asking much, but I'd like your daughter's hand in marriage, Wes. Even if only for a couple of seasons.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: tomd2103 on February 08, 2021, 09:55:32 PM
Obviously no one has a crystal ball, but the pandemic has probably been the opportunity to do any redevelopment. 

It would have worked out well really if we had made the move to increase the capacity given the season we have had and fans possibly returning next season.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on February 08, 2021, 10:08:34 PM
It's such a shame as Villa Park would have been rocking this season. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 09, 2021, 12:38:48 AM
I'm not asking much, but I'd like Messi, please. Even if only for a couple of seasons.

He wouldn’t get in the side.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sid1964 on February 09, 2021, 06:43:22 AM
 £400 million is that how much the club owes our 2 owners if they decided to stop investing in the club? and wanted to sell

Looking at the losses we made in the season we got promoted, if we had not have had 2 owners who were prepared to plough money into the club, we would not have got out of the Championship

Our losses for last season (partly due to the pandemic) will be over £100 million
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 09, 2021, 08:11:27 AM
The £400m were not loans.  They were shares so they have exchanged them for equity. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: oldhill_avfc on February 09, 2021, 09:06:39 AM
Despite the numbers being mind boggling,  a total cost of around £450m for premier league club on the verge of Europe with massive squad value and potential probably still represents a sound investment.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on February 09, 2021, 09:08:24 AM
£400 million, the kind of numbers Xia even in his shittiest of shit shoes couldn't begin to make up.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on February 09, 2021, 10:14:17 AM
I genuinely think NSWE picked up as big a bargain as its possible to get in football.  If they get it right and football club valuations continue to trend north after Covid, Villa will be a billion pound commodity before the decade is out.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 09, 2021, 10:24:29 AM
£400 million, the kind of numbers Xia even in his shittiest of shit shoes couldn't begin to make up.



"Forgive me but you've got shit on your shoes, and I'm the shoe shine boy"
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Pat Mustard on February 09, 2021, 10:41:29 AM
Despite the numbers being mind boggling,  a total cost of around £450m for premier league club on the verge of Europe with massive squad value and potential probably still represents a sound investment.

I think this is right and is the way NWSE will be looking at it.  Obviously the numbers are mind-boggling and no doubt other club's fans will be crying FFP, but when you look at what they have for the investment it is pretty shrewd (in football terms at least).  Ashley wants at least £350 million for Newcastle for example, and I would say the value of their squad currently is a fraction of ours - to get to where we are, any owner of Newcastle would be looking at having to spend at least £250 million+ on players, and even then that is only if they manage to get a progressive manager in to replace Bruce.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on February 09, 2021, 10:43:54 AM
I'm not sure I believe there is any such thing as a shrewd football investment.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 09, 2021, 10:57:28 AM
Lerner's biggest failing wasn't to do with not putting enough money in, certainly not in the early days. It was that, having put said money in, he utterly failed at any point to build up a decent management team to get the most out of his investment.

Even the Man City owners, who are way, way richer, made a point of doing that.

Lerner by comparison put in General Krulak, who had no experience in the game, and then Faulkner, who was someone who ran credit card call centres for him. Even when he finally did appoint someone with a football background, it was Tom Fox, who combined said background with being a fucking idiot.

When you run a company like that, it's going to drift big-time. Relegation was pretty much inevitable on the basis of the previous 5 seasons. I was surprised it took so long, if anything.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on February 09, 2021, 11:28:34 AM
I'm not asking much, but I'd like Messi, please. Even if only for a couple of seasons.

I would rather we find and develop the next Messi through the investment that's being made into the academies.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on February 09, 2021, 11:41:47 AM
As the only proper big club for the best part of at least 50 miles in all directions it would be great to be building academies across the region. Pipe dream maybe, but a graduate or two a year would probably pay for the whole thing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on February 09, 2021, 01:00:29 PM
As the only proper big club for the best part of at least 50 miles in all directions it would be great to be building academies across the region. Pipe dream maybe, but a graduate or two a year would probably pay for the whole thing.

85 miles north to Old Trafford and 114 miles south to Arsenal.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on February 09, 2021, 01:09:23 PM
Lerner's biggest failing wasn't to do with not putting enough money in, certainly not in the early days. It was that, having put said money in, he utterly failed at any point to build up a decent management team to get the most out of his investment.

Even the Man City owners, who are way, way richer, made a point of doing that.

Lerner by comparison put in General Krulak, who had no experience in the game, and then Faulkner, who was someone who ran credit card call centres for him. Even when he finally did appoint someone with a football background, it was Tom Fox, who combined said background with being a fucking idiot.

When you run a company like that, it's going to drift big-time. Relegation was pretty much inevitable on the basis of the previous 5 seasons. I was surprised it took so long, if anything.

It's not as if he didn't have previous for it either.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 09, 2021, 01:52:42 PM
Lerner's biggest failing wasn't to do with not putting enough money in, certainly not in the early days. It was that, having put said money in, he utterly failed at any point to build up a decent management team to get the most out of his investment.

Even the Man City owners, who are way, way richer, made a point of doing that.

Lerner by comparison put in General Krulak, who had no experience in the game, and then Faulkner, who was someone who ran credit card call centres for him. Even when he finally did appoint someone with a football background, it was Tom Fox, who combined said background with being a fucking idiot.

When you run a company like that, it's going to drift big-time. Relegation was pretty much inevitable on the basis of the previous 5 seasons. I was surprised it took so long, if anything.

Yes, crazy way to go about things. He started off with the right ideas I think, when he brought blokes like that Kain in, but then very quickly decided life would be easier with his mates around him so just relied on Krulak and Faulkner instead. They were undoubtedly well-intentioned, just completely unqualified for the job at hand.

Tom Fox though, I don't even know where to start with him. He was the boardroom equivalent of Ross McCormack. You look at his record and think he should do a decent job, but he was an utter, utter disaster at every single facet of the job. I can't think of a single thing he got right, and in fact just about everything the bloke said or did was an absolute shitshow.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on February 09, 2021, 02:20:29 PM
As the only proper big club for the best part of at least 50 miles in all directions it would be great to be building academies across the region. Pipe dream maybe, but a graduate or two a year would probably pay for the whole thing.

85 miles north to Old Trafford and 114 miles south to Arsenal.

I had my sensible head on and thought leicester because of 2016 and how they are currently performing, but not sure which way they will go when vardy finishes.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 09, 2021, 02:34:05 PM
As the only proper big club for the best part of at least 50 miles in all directions it would be great to be building academies across the region. Pipe dream maybe, but a graduate or two a year would probably pay for the whole thing.

85 miles north to Old Trafford and 114 miles south to Arsenal.

I had my sensible head on and thought leicester because of 2016 and how they are currently performing, but not sure which way they will go when vardy finishes.

They seem to be making more good decisions than bad for the last few years. A well established top half Premier League team now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 09, 2021, 02:46:02 PM
Lerner's biggest failing wasn't to do with not putting enough money in, certainly not in the early days. It was that, having put said money in, he utterly failed at any point to build up a decent management team to get the most out of his investment.

Even the Man City owners, who are way, way richer, made a point of doing that.

Lerner by comparison put in General Krulak, who had no experience in the game, and then Faulkner, who was someone who ran credit card call centres for him. Even when he finally did appoint someone with a football background, it was Tom Fox, who combined said background with being a fucking idiot.

When you run a company like that, it's going to drift big-time. Relegation was pretty much inevitable on the basis of the previous 5 seasons. I was surprised it took so long, if anything.

Yes, crazy way to go about things. He started off with the right ideas I think, when he brought blokes like that Kain in, but then very quickly decided life would be easier with his mates around him so just relied on Krulak and Faulkner instead. They were undoubtedly well-intentioned, just completely unqualified for the job at hand.

Tom Fox though, I don't even know where to start with him. He was the boardroom equivalent of Ross McCormack. You look at his record and think he should do a decent job, but he was an utter, utter disaster at every single facet of the job. I can't think of a single thing he got right, and in fact just about everything the bloke said or did was an absolute shitshow.


That is such a false narrative.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 09, 2021, 02:54:23 PM
Was that when he said there was more than one measurement of success and cited shirt sales being up despite is being marooned at the bottom of the table?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on February 09, 2021, 03:20:49 PM
I'm not asking much, but I'd like Messi, please. Even if only for a couple of seasons.

I'm not sure we could accomodate him with SJM, Jack, Trez, El Ghazi, Sansom, Traore and Barkley in the side  ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Simon Page on February 09, 2021, 03:28:46 PM
Tom Fox = Peter Principle.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on February 09, 2021, 03:29:38 PM
Tom Fox invented fake news while at Villa. That has more cultural currency than moving on Ashley Westwood, Helenius and Tonev for better players.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on February 09, 2021, 05:22:53 PM
Lerner's biggest failing wasn't to do with not putting enough money in, certainly not in the early days. It was that, having put said money in, he utterly failed at any point to build up a decent management team to get the most out of his investment.

Even the Man City owners, who are way, way richer, made a point of doing that.

Lerner by comparison put in General Krulak, who had no experience in the game, and then Faulkner, who was someone who ran credit card call centres for him. Even when he finally did appoint someone with a football background, it was Tom Fox, who combined said background with being a fucking idiot.

When you run a company like that, it's going to drift big-time. Relegation was pretty much inevitable on the basis of the previous 5 seasons. I was surprised it took so long, if anything.

Yes, crazy way to go about things. He started off with the right ideas I think, when he brought blokes like that Kain in, but then very quickly decided life would be easier with his mates around him so just relied on Krulak and Faulkner instead. They were undoubtedly well-intentioned, just completely unqualified for the job at hand.

Tom Fox though, I don't even know where to start with him. He was the boardroom equivalent of Ross McCormack. You look at his record and think he should do a decent job, but he was an utter, utter disaster at every single facet of the job. I can't think of a single thing he got right, and in fact just about everything the bloke said or did was an absolute shitshow.


That is such a false narrative.

lol.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: BC Villain on February 09, 2021, 06:46:46 PM
Lerner's biggest failing wasn't to do with not putting enough money in, certainly not in the early days. It was that, having put said money in, he utterly failed at any point to build up a decent management team to get the most out of his investment.

Even the Man City owners, who are way, way richer, made a point of doing that.

Lerner by comparison put in General Krulak, who had no experience in the game, and then Faulkner, who was someone who ran credit card call centres for him. Even when he finally did appoint someone with a football background, it was Tom Fox, who combined said background with being a fucking idiot.

When you run a company like that, it's going to drift big-time. Relegation was pretty much inevitable on the basis of the previous 5 seasons. I was surprised it took so long, if anything.

Lerner had everyone telling him that he had the greatest manager to walk the face of the earth, so just kept handing the cash out.  He was then exposed when said manager had a tantrum and took his ball home with him.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dante Lavelli on February 09, 2021, 07:15:42 PM
Lerner's biggest failing wasn't to do with not putting enough money in, certainly not in the early days. It was that, having put said money in, he utterly failed at any point to build up a decent management team to get the most out of his investment.

Even the Man City owners, who are way, way richer, made a point of doing that.

Lerner by comparison put in General Krulak, who had no experience in the game, and then Faulkner, who was someone who ran credit card call centres for him. Even when he finally did appoint someone with a football background, it was Tom Fox, who combined said background with being a fucking idiot.

When you run a company like that, it's going to drift big-time. Relegation was pretty much inevitable on the basis of the previous 5 seasons. I was surprised it took so long, if anything.

Lerner had everyone telling him that he had the greatest manager to walk the face of the earth, so just kept handing the cash out.  He was then exposed when said manager had a tantrum and took his ball home with him.


Did anyone watch that Sunderland documentary?  I imagine that the Randy years were similar to the Short years, no meaningful targets set for each department and all problems were (initially) solved by signing a cheque to the point where there was no accountability.  It is not surprising that this culture produced Gabby. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on February 09, 2021, 08:10:10 PM
Lerner's biggest failing wasn't to do with not putting enough money in, certainly not in the early days. It was that, having put said money in, he utterly failed at any point to build up a decent management team to get the most out of his investment.

Even the Man City owners, who are way, way richer, made a point of doing that.

Lerner by comparison put in General Krulak, who had no experience in the game, and then Faulkner, who was someone who ran credit card call centres for him. Even when he finally did appoint someone with a football background, it was Tom Fox, who combined said background with being a fucking idiot.

When you run a company like that, it's going to drift big-time. Relegation was pretty much inevitable on the basis of the previous 5 seasons. I was surprised it took so long, if anything.

Lerner had everyone telling him that he had the greatest manager to walk the face of the earth, so just kept handing the cash out.  He was then exposed when said manager had a tantrum and took his ball home with him.


Did anyone watch that Sunderland documentary?  I imagine that the Randy years were similar to the Short years, no meaningful targets set for each department and all problems were (initially) solved by signing a cheque to the point where there was no accountability.  It’d no wonder this culture manifested Gabby.
I watched it. It's amazing how far they have slipped. They are a really big club and it should serve as a lesson to many similar clubs. We had our sliding doors moment under the shambolic stewardship of TonyX and it could so easily have been us in Sunderlands situation. We absolutely dodged a proverbial bullet when we lost to Fulham
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on February 11, 2021, 10:30:10 PM
Only six teams in world football have spent more than us in the past five years! We've spent more than Milan, Real Madrid, and Bayern Munich!

https://www.footballtransfers.com/2021/02/man-utd-and-man-city-combine-for-a-net-transfer-spend-of-e1-2bn-since-2016

Our owners really are taking this seriously!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 11, 2021, 11:13:12 PM
Figures for past two seasons sorted by negative balance...


(https://i.ibb.co/QjwCtRH/Screenshot-20210211-231206-Chrome.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QjwCtRH)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mellin on February 11, 2021, 11:59:28 PM
Look a brave little shoestring Sheffield in 8th above Barca, Bayern and Madrid. Fucked it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SheffieldVillain on February 12, 2021, 12:11:08 AM
Figures for past two seasons sorted by negative balance...


(https://i.ibb.co/QjwCtRH/Screenshot-20210211-231206-Chrome.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QjwCtRH)


Most of this of course is ace having rich owners.

However, the 41 players out for a grand total of £5m income is absolutely shocking and says everything about the absolute mess of a squad the previous regime left us with.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 12, 2021, 12:15:33 AM
I'd imagine quite a lot of them are kids or the old guard, who played their part in getting us promoted but it was best for both parties that they left.

And I'd rather that than we had shitloads in income because we had sold Grealish and our other stars.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on February 12, 2021, 12:27:21 AM
That's why I'm so critical of Bruce, the only significant asset he left us with (of his signings) is McGinn. Smith has done things so much better because we're probably looking at a squad value of about half a billion now considering Watkins, Jack, Luiz and Konsa would get us about halfway there right now and most of other starters are in the £20-40m bracket.

Being top of that chart is probably something our owners hate but it was always going to be something that happened for a few years before the academy started paying off and we started selling off players that are in demand. I suspect the long term plan is to have a net loss on transfers of no more than about £20m a season they've spoke about the club being sustainable a lot and if you look on that list clubs like Dortmund are probably the closest to how I think they want to go.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SheffieldVillain on February 12, 2021, 12:28:18 AM
Undoubtedly best that most of the 41 left, and of course I wouldn't have wanted to have income from selling our top stars.

That was rather my point - that we were left with a horrible squad - of kids who weren't going to make it so needed to go or the old guard for whom it was best that they left. The money wasted on a number of that 41 is just incredible.

Only Taylor, McGinn, Grealish, AEH and Davis left now (plus Steer who was out on loan) from Bruce's squad? Next season more than likely just Jack and McGinn. What an incredible turnaround.

To be fair, £230m on basically an entire squad, of the quality they've managed, is really good going.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SheffieldVillain on February 12, 2021, 12:31:47 AM
Also, according to that, Parma have signed 149 players in 2 years. Has Barry Fry gone there?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 12, 2021, 01:09:28 AM
I think maybe Parma sign loads of players to loan out. Or they did. Or I'm getting them mixed up with a different Italian team. Were Parma the ones that kept loaning players to Watford?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on February 12, 2021, 01:25:33 AM
Udinese I think.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 12, 2021, 01:31:31 AM
Ah, ignore that theory then.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sid1964 on February 12, 2021, 07:31:01 AM
We need to win a cup or challenge to get into the top 4 with the money that our 2 owners are currently ploughing into the club

Next season Dean will need to ensure that we start to challenge for honours otherwise I think a few of the squad will start to look for moves away to other teams
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on February 12, 2021, 07:51:14 AM
We need to win a cup or challenge to get into the top 4 with the money that our 2 owners are currently ploughing into the club

Next season Dean will need to ensure that we start to challenge for honours otherwise I think a few of the squad will start to look for moves away to other teams

A few of them have signed new deals so they're probably happy with the clubs future plans. Maybe in a couple of seasons if we haven't progressed or have gone backwards, one or two might want to look elsewhere.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on February 12, 2021, 07:52:09 AM
Being top of that chart is probably something our owners hate but it was always going to be something that happened for a few years before the academy started paying off and we started selling off players that are in demand. I suspect the long term plan is to have a net loss on transfers of no more than about £20m a season they've spoke about the club being sustainable a lot and if you look on that list clubs like Dortmund are probably the closest to how I think they want to go.
Yeah ... that's pretty much how I'd see it.  My guess would be that we'll probably not have a strict budget as of such, but longer term not make many 'big' signings - mostly youngsters (e.g. Louie Barry) and undervalued players (Sanson, Cash).

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dave P on February 12, 2021, 08:39:15 AM
I was today years old when I realised NSWE stood for the initials of the owners.  FFS just remove me from this forum or something, I deserve it! 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on February 12, 2021, 08:53:19 AM
Parma sign tonnes of players and loan them out, with a view to developing and selling them for a profit.

Chelsea do the same too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on February 12, 2021, 09:27:49 AM
I was today years old when I realised NSWE stood for the initials of the owners.  FFS just remove me from this forum or something, I deserve it! 

I always think its the Not Safe For Work acronym and when I browsed in the office I would always glance both ways to make sure nothing dodgy was on the next click.

Now, working from home, I click on the new posts button with care-free abandon and if it happens to be Richard Hubbard, lost on his way from Off Topic posting images of females "fit over forty", so be it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ian. on February 12, 2021, 10:31:29 AM
I was today years old when I realised NSWE stood for the initials of the owners.  FFS just remove me from this forum or something, I deserve it! 

I always think its the Not Safe For Work acronym and when I browsed in the office I would always glance both ways to make sure nothing dodgy was on the next click.

Ha ha, me too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on February 12, 2021, 11:36:53 AM
Lerner's biggest failing wasn't to do with not putting enough money in, certainly not in the early days. It was that, having put said money in, he utterly failed at any point to build up a decent management team to get the most out of his investment.

Even the Man City owners, who are way, way richer, made a point of doing that.

Lerner by comparison put in General Krulak, who had no experience in the game, and then Faulkner, who was someone who ran credit card call centres for him. Even when he finally did appoint someone with a football background, it was Tom Fox, who combined said background with being a fucking idiot.

When you run a company like that, it's going to drift big-time. Relegation was pretty much inevitable on the basis of the previous 5 seasons. I was surprised it took so long, if anything.

Yes, crazy way to go about things. He started off with the right ideas I think, when he brought blokes like that Kain in, but then very quickly decided life would be easier with his mates around him so just relied on Krulak and Faulkner instead. They were undoubtedly well-intentioned, just completely unqualified for the job at hand.

Tom Fox though, I don't even know where to start with him. He was the boardroom equivalent of Ross McCormack. You look at his record and think he should do a decent job, but he was an utter, utter disaster at every single facet of the job. I can't think of a single thing he got right, and in fact just about everything the bloke said or did was an absolute shitshow.
Without absolving Randy of blame here, wasn't a lot of this down to MON? He couldn't deal with having a "proper" CEO disrupting his access to the owner, which is a trend that seems to have followed on to his time in Sunderland. Obviously there's an argument to be made that lerner should have been stronger on it, but considering a lot of this was in the honeymoon period, and more importantly when O'Neill had a large amount of support, it could have resulted in other problems had they dug their heels in.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on February 12, 2021, 11:43:10 AM
That's why I'm so critical of Bruce, the only significant asset he left us with (of his signings) is McGinn. Smith has done things so much better because we're probably looking at a squad value of about half a billion now considering Watkins, Jack, Luiz and Konsa would get us about halfway there right now and most of other starters are in the £20-40m bracket.

Even then, McGinn is rumoured to be someone that had been recommended to the owners and who the owners acted on and Bruce was just the lucky beneficiary. Who knows though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dante Lavelli on February 12, 2021, 06:48:09 PM
However, the 41 players out for a grand total of £5m income is absolutely shocking and says everything about the absolute mess of a squad the previous regime left us with.

That is what jumped out at me.  Benteke is the only player I can think of that we’ve cashed in since the MON era.  That’s shocking (even if I have missed a few) and also highlights the benefit of, occasionally, selling the odd player at their peak value to generate cash and refresh the squad.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SheffieldVillain on February 12, 2021, 06:59:29 PM
However, the 41 players out for a grand total of £5m income is absolutely shocking and says everything about the absolute mess of a squad the previous regime left us with.

That is what jumped out at me.  Benteke is the only player I can think of that we’ve cashed in since the MON era.  That’s shocking (even if I have missed a few) and also highlights the benefit of, occasionally, selling the odd player at their peak value to generate cash and refresh the squad.

I don't even mind the not cashing in bit to be honest. It's the amount of 5m/10m signings who we've had to give free transfers that annoys me. Even allowing for the retirements and kids in that 41, there's at least 15 first team squad players who we've had to release for nothing.

At least with Connor and Guilbert now we're actively doing something to push their value up in the event that they do leave and would be able at the very least to recoup what we paid. Yet another part of the new regime which is visibly a big improvement.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dante Lavelli on February 12, 2021, 07:08:46 PM
However, the 41 players out for a grand total of £5m income is absolutely shocking and says everything about the absolute mess of a squad the previous regime left us with.

That is what jumped out at me.  Benteke is the only player I can think of that we’ve cashed in since the MON era.  That’s shocking (even if I have missed a few) and also highlights the benefit of, occasionally, selling the odd player at their peak value to generate cash and refresh the squad.

I don't even mind the not cashing in bit to be honest. It's the amount of 5m/10m signings who we've had to give free transfers that annoys me. Even allowing for the retirements and kids in that 41, there's at least 15 first team squad players who we've had to release for nothing.

At least with Connor and Guilbert now we're actively doing something to push their value up in the event that they do leave and would be able at the very least to recoup what we paid. Yet another part of the new regime which is visibly a big improvement.

Totally agree.  I don’t mean cashing in the ‘crown jewels’ but making a profit on El Ghazi and/or Trez (and Hause/Davis?) should be a priority as it’ll free up space in the squad and give us headroom to invest again.  Conversely selling Engles just creates a FFP problem again as it would be deemed a loss (I think).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 12, 2021, 07:35:04 PM
It used to piss me off royally even in the well-funded Lerner years that we just let so many players sit out their contracts and didn't seem capable of selling players.

We must have wasted so much fucking money.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on February 12, 2021, 07:40:03 PM
We pay good salaries, the players we wanted to get rid of weren't wanted by other clubs or if they were, not at the same rate of salary and never-ending spiral of mediocrity went on.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 12, 2021, 07:41:36 PM

Totally agree.  I don’t mean cashing in the ‘crown jewels’ but making a profit on El Ghazi and/or Trez (and Hause/Davis?) should be a priority as it’ll free up space in the squad and give us headroom to invest again.  Conversely selling Engles just creates a FFP problem again as it would be deemed a loss (I think).

If we sell him in the summer, his amortised value will be about £4m if he was on a four year contract. We'll easily get at least that back for him, there were times last season when he looked quite good.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on February 12, 2021, 07:54:20 PM

Totally agree.  I don’t mean cashing in the ‘crown jewels’ but making a profit on El Ghazi and/or Trez (and Hause/Davis?) should be a priority as it’ll free up space in the squad and give us headroom to invest again.  Conversely selling Engles just creates a FFP problem again as it would be deemed a loss (I think).

If we sell him in the summer, his amortised value will be about £4m if he was on a four year contract. We'll easily get at least that back for him, there were times last season when he looked quite good.

'Amortised'. A word that seemed to just appear from nowhere and then started to get used a lot in a Villa context a while back.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 12, 2021, 09:18:15 PM
Amortisation was invented by Mark Ansell.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 13, 2021, 12:01:46 AM
It used to piss me off royally even in the well-funded Lerner years that we just let so many players sit out their contracts and didn't seem capable of selling players.

We must have wasted so much fucking money.

That was the main reason MON dumped us at the alter, he thought he was above trading players. He obviously thought Lerner should keep giving him money and unlike every other manager in the league, he didn't need to sell players. The fact that so many players were on great contracts and not being used didn't mean jack-shit to him. He was the boss no matter what Lerner thought, such was his opinion of himself. The fact that our deadwood was worth peanuts was something he was well aware of but didn't want to ruin his reputation.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on February 13, 2021, 05:42:07 PM
Amortisation was invented by Mark Ansell.

 Amortisation would get mentioned to a packed Witton Lane stand at AGMs in the 70s. Nobody give a shit, we just wanted to cheer Ron Saunders who looked like he really didn't want to be there listening to a bunch of arsehole directors. It got more interesting when Doug fell out with Harry Parkes & Jim Hartley.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Three Spires Villa on February 13, 2021, 06:19:41 PM
It used to piss me off royally even in the well-funded Lerner years that we just let so many players sit out their contracts and didn't seem capable of selling players.

We must have wasted so much fucking money.

That was the main reason MON dumped us at the alter, he thought he was above trading players. He obviously thought Lerner should keep giving him money and unlike every other manager in the league, he didn't need to sell players. The fact that so many players were on great contracts and not being used didn't mean jack-shit to him. He was the boss no matter what Lerner thought, such was his opinion of himself. The fact that our deadwood was worth peanuts was something he was well aware of but didn't want to ruin his reputation.


Well said
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dante Lavelli on February 13, 2021, 07:10:59 PM
It used to piss me off royally even in the well-funded Lerner years that we just let so many players sit out their contracts and didn't seem capable of selling players.

We must have wasted so much fucking money.

That was the main reason MON dumped us at the alter, he thought he was above trading players. He obviously thought Lerner should keep giving him money and unlike every other manager in the league, he didn't need to sell players. The fact that so many players were on great contracts and not being used didn't mean jack-shit to him. He was the boss no matter what Lerner thought, such was his opinion of himself. The fact that our deadwood was worth peanuts was something he was well aware of but didn't want to ruin his reputation.


Well said

Indeed.  MON was a great coach (most of the time) but his outlook was so short sighted. A manger who wanted to build a club rather than elevate/maintain his own reputation could have been a sliding doors moment for the club.  It might have kept Randy engaged (for longer). 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on February 23, 2021, 08:48:10 AM
NS about to accept a $4.7bn offer for a private jet company. All the monies!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SaddVillan on February 23, 2021, 03:58:14 PM
NS about to accept a $4.7bn offer for a private jet company. All the monies!

Loose change!

Can we have 10% for our summer shopping trip.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on February 23, 2021, 06:57:11 PM
NS about to accept a $4.7bn offer for a private jet company. All the monies!

Think he only has 7.42% of that but maybe he can persuade his co-stakeholder in that company, Bill Gates, to get involved in the Villa. :)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 23, 2021, 07:06:38 PM
So he trousers around $349m for that.  There’s the transfer budget for the summer sorted.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villafirst on February 23, 2021, 07:58:17 PM
So he trousers around $349m for that.  There’s the transfer budget for the summer sorted.

Pocket money to him! Give DS £100m this summer to spend...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villafirst on February 23, 2021, 08:11:21 PM
If Nassef runs a bit short of cash, he could always speak to the Sawiris family who are reportedly worth about $36bn!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on March 25, 2021, 01:39:45 PM
Has there been some news about FFP today? Had a text about it from a mate but came here for insight.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Exeter 77 on March 25, 2021, 01:57:10 PM
Has there been some news about FFP today? Had a text about it from a mate but came here for insight.
There has been a suggestion that UEFA will scrap FFP in favour of something else but not a lot more than that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on March 25, 2021, 01:59:14 PM
Has there been some news about FFP today? Had a text about it from a mate but came here for insight.

Sounds shady. Where was this mate texting from?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on March 25, 2021, 02:00:34 PM
It wasn't Sepp Blatter was it?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on March 25, 2021, 04:13:46 PM
Has there been some news about FFP today? Had a text about it from a mate but came here for insight.

Sounds shady. Where was this mate texting from?

Erm... Sutton. Was at work so was wondering if there was something on the news.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 25, 2021, 04:23:10 PM
Nights down the Rover, Percy? Wink.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sid1964 on March 26, 2021, 06:56:08 AM
Read the Mail yesterday and was surprised that 1 of the owners (the poorer one) is not worth as much as Lerner when he owned the club.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on March 26, 2021, 08:09:49 AM
Think Lerner lost a lot in the Financial crash and then a costly divorce
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aj2k77 on March 26, 2021, 09:04:25 AM
Read the Mail yesterday and was surprised that 1 of the owners (the poorer one) is not worth as much as Lerner when he owned the club.

No one should be irreplaceable (apart from Jack). If he cannot contribute enough towards our future war chests then I think we should start looking at buying another owner.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on March 26, 2021, 09:30:48 AM
Edens is happily married though, right? Or else he's sorted out a pre-nup.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 26, 2021, 09:33:18 AM
Read the Mail yesterday and was surprised that 1 of the owners (the poorer one) is not worth as much as Lerner when he owned the club.

Daily or Birmingham?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on March 26, 2021, 11:19:11 AM
Something that Edens has that Lerner didn't is the knowledge and experience of owning a 'sports franchise' and making it successful. The fact that he's a billionaire in his own right alongside a much wealthier billionaire makes it a completely different prospect. Edens and Sawiris were very quick to start putting into place a good structure. You only have to compare the appointment of Christian Purslow to some of the CEO's that Lerner appointed to see the difference.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on March 26, 2021, 11:24:57 AM
What I like about these 2 (and Purslow) so far is that they talked about investing in youth and then followed through rather than shuffling the deckchairs as we've seen from others.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on March 26, 2021, 11:33:50 AM
I think one of the reasons for wanting to own a football club was the opportunities they could see through player development.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on March 26, 2021, 12:58:17 PM
Something that Edens has that Lerner didn't is the knowledge and experience of owning a 'sports franchise' and making it successful. The fact that he's a billionaire in his own right alongside a much wealthier billionaire makes it a completely different prospect. Edens and Sawiris were very quick to start putting into place a good structure. You only have to compare the appointment of Christian Purslow to some of the CEO's that Lerner appointed to see the difference.

There's also the fact that Edens didn't inherit all of his wealth like Lerner did. Edens is a successful businessman who has branched out into sports ownership and made a success of that too. Lerner was a rich kid who wanted a plaything, appointed the wrong people then squandered a big percentage of the family trust money on it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on March 26, 2021, 01:02:12 PM
This is the only thing I have seen on it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/soccer/chelsea/.amp/news/financial-fair-play-set-to-be-scrapped-chelsea-to-be-given-more-freedom-in-150m-transfer-pursuit-of-erling-haaland
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on March 26, 2021, 02:07:29 PM
Something that Edens has that Lerner didn't is the knowledge and experience of owning a 'sports franchise' and making it successful. The fact that he's a billionaire in his own right alongside a much wealthier billionaire makes it a completely different prospect. Edens and Sawiris were very quick to start putting into place a good structure. You only have to compare the appointment of Christian Purslow to some of the CEO's that Lerner appointed to see the difference.

There's also the fact that Edens didn't inherit all of his wealth like Lerner did. Edens is a successful businessman who has branched out into sports ownership and made a success of that too. Lerner was a rich kid who wanted a plaything, appointed the wrong people then squandered a big percentage of the family trust money on it.

You can see that in the rebuilding of the club's infrastructure too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on March 26, 2021, 02:10:32 PM
Read the Mail yesterday and was surprised that 1 of the owners (the poorer one) is not worth as much as Lerner when he owned the club.

I'm not sure that will be an issue, as Edens is backed by Fortress Investments which in turn is backed by Softbank.   I think we're in the fortunate position of having owners who have access to levels of genuine investment funding far beyond the figures quoted as their personal wealth. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on March 26, 2021, 03:47:42 PM
These owners are on another scale of wealth and competence in comparison to Lerner. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on March 26, 2021, 03:48:51 PM
With FFP hopefully going out of the window, I'd love to see us go on a proper Man City style shopping spree this summer.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on March 26, 2021, 03:53:30 PM
Who would be our Robinho ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on March 26, 2021, 03:54:55 PM
With FFP hopefully going out of the window, I'd love to see us go on a proper Man City style shopping spree this summer.

I'm sure I'd change my tune once they started shirt stretching, but I honestly wouldn't. Yes, lets get the best we can and push the boat out a bit, but just spunking out on a raft of players would leave any success we have had a little hollow.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Simon Page on March 26, 2021, 03:59:54 PM
Obviously having never experienced Villa hoovering up every kid who can trap a ball, I have no idea how I'd really feel about it happening. What I can say is every Villa team/player I've really enjoyed watching has felt like he wanted to be part of the Villa rather than just at a place he could get decent money or medals. So if we can combine avarice with a bit of soul, I'd probably put up with the sour taste.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on March 26, 2021, 04:06:36 PM
OOps wrong thread!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on March 26, 2021, 04:45:59 PM
Who would be our Robinho ?

Barkley  😊
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on March 26, 2021, 04:47:15 PM
Jesus wept....maybe Citeh's Jesus could be our marquee man.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on March 26, 2021, 04:49:34 PM
Tbh, if we're going to spend silly money, I'd like 2 dead brilliant wingers
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on March 26, 2021, 04:53:07 PM
With FFP hopefully going out of the window, I'd love to see us go on a proper Man City style shopping spree this summer.

I'm sure I'd change my tune once they started shirt stretching, but I honestly wouldn't. Yes, lets get the best we can and push the boat out a bit, but just spunking out on a raft of players would leave any success we have had a little hollow.

They've spunked a quarter of a billion already, we're not exactly the Corinthian Casuals!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on March 26, 2021, 04:57:25 PM
With FFP hopefully going out of the window, I'd love to see us go on a proper Man City style shopping spree this summer.

I'm sure I'd change my tune once they started shirt stretching, but I honestly wouldn't. Yes, lets get the best we can and push the boat out a bit, but just spunking out on a raft of players would leave any success we have had a little hollow.

They've spunked a quarter of a billion already, we're not exactly the Corinthian Casuals!

Yeah they really do need to stop Piss pooling about
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on March 26, 2021, 04:57:48 PM
Tbh, if we're going to spend silly money, I'd like 2 dead brilliant wingers

Jimmy Johnstone and Garrincha?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 26, 2021, 04:58:42 PM
Tbh, if we're going to spend silly money, I'd like 2 dead brilliant wingers

Jimmy Johnstone and Garrincha?

Genius!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on March 26, 2021, 05:07:09 PM
Tbh, if we're going to spend silly money, I'd like 2 dead brilliant wingers

Jimmy Johnstone and Garrincha?

Well they'd be better than Tonev and more consistent than N'Zogbia
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on March 26, 2021, 05:08:29 PM
Who would be our Robinho ?

Barkley  😊

He didn’t say Rubbishinho! 🙄😁
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on March 26, 2021, 08:03:24 PM
Tbh, if we're going to spend silly money, I'd like 2 dead brilliant wingers

Jimmy Johnstone and Garrincha?

Well they'd be better than Tonev and more consistent than N'Zogbia


Tonev was a dream player for all of those fans who get excited by being able to touch the match ball when it has been fired into the crowd. When I had a season ticket in the lower North stand in some of the Tonev games I had more touches of the ball than Tonev himself.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on March 26, 2021, 08:06:41 PM
I used to sit a bit above the goal when we had Hitzlsperger. Was terrifying when he was practicing his shots before the game.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Border villan on March 27, 2021, 05:17:21 PM
Every time I drove over spaghetti junction I was terrified that Savo was having shooting practice towards the Holte End goal.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aj2k77 on March 27, 2021, 06:50:51 PM
Savo was a quality player, his goal record stands up against most players. His link up play with Yorke was brilliant. One of my favourite moments was Savo's late winner against Bordeaux, wild scenes in the Lower Trinity that night.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on March 27, 2021, 07:19:31 PM
Savo was a quality player, his goal record stands up against most players. His link up play with Yorke was brilliant. One of my favourite moments was Savo's late winner against Bordeaux, wild scenes in the Lower Trinity that night.
Agreed, Savo was ace, and he didn't do too badly when he left either, Euro's golden boot and having Roma shell out £17m when that was a shit tonne of cash, more than Yorke went to Man Utd for perspective.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Border villan on March 27, 2021, 10:09:45 PM
I loved Savo, but erratic was a given.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 27, 2021, 10:19:18 PM
we
Savo was a quality player, his goal record stands up against most players. His link up play with Yorke was brilliant. One of my favourite moments was Savo's late winner against Bordeaux, wild scenes in the Lower Trinity that night.
Agreed, Savo was ace, and he didn't do too badly when he left either, Euro's golden boot and having Roma shell out £17m when that was a shit tonne of cash, more than Yorke went to Man Utd for perspective.

It was Parma, not Roma.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LukeJames on March 27, 2021, 10:21:46 PM
£17m two years after we released him on a free 🙄
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 27, 2021, 10:41:48 PM
£17m two years after we released him on a free 🙄

No we didn't.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LukeJames on March 27, 2021, 10:45:26 PM
£17m two years after we released him on a free 🙄

No we didn't.
Aaaaagh balls, I was way too young to remember the actual events and  just going off this website https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/savo-milosevic/transfers/spieler/7896
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 27, 2021, 10:48:59 PM
That link also states we paid Partizan £1.3m when it was actually £3.5m.

Schoolboy error.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LukeJames on March 27, 2021, 10:52:23 PM
Ok Juan Raiola 👌
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on March 27, 2021, 11:49:01 PM
£17m two years after we released him on a free 🙄

No we didn't.
Aaaaagh balls, I was way too young to remember the actual events and  just going off this website https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/savo-milosevic/transfers/spieler/7896

It was about £8m from memory.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on March 28, 2021, 02:51:26 AM
That's what Wiki says but I really don't recall us making such a profit on him. He wasn't exactly in demand at the time, Zaragoza being a fairly middling club. From what I recall it was more similar to what we paid, maybe a slight haircut, £3.5m or so.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ldavfc4eva on March 28, 2021, 08:57:25 AM
I’m sure Savo went for £4m, so a slight profit.

A much derided figure, but he got in to double figures in his first season and started us off with his wonder goal in the league cup final.

I liked him
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on March 28, 2021, 09:24:04 AM
He did not like us so much.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on March 28, 2021, 09:35:12 AM
It took him ages to get a goal and then scored three against Coventry I think.  He was a gamble but I think it paid off.  Wonder goal in the League Cup Final.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on March 28, 2021, 10:07:16 AM
From memory, we got our money back off him, Zaragoza sold him for £16m then he went somewhere else for big money. Lovely player once he'd got going and settled down. I was sitting with a Coventry fan in the Doug Ellis when he scored that hat-trick against them, which was nice.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 28, 2021, 10:10:05 AM
You could argue Yorkie wouldn’t have had the seasons he had 95-97 without Big Savo.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on March 28, 2021, 10:14:32 AM
Always thought of him as one of those ‘worth the entrance fee’ type players. He could have bad/middling/quiet games, but there was always the possibility he could do something breathtaking. Yorke really blossomed when we signed Savo - no coincidence.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nev on March 28, 2021, 10:18:34 AM
He had a good partnership with Yorke but that was banjoed by the arrival of Collymore.
There are plenty of ex Villa players who are ahead of Savo in the queue for derision.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on March 28, 2021, 10:21:33 AM
From memory, we got our money back off him, Zaragoza sold him for £16m then he went somewhere else for big money. Lovely player once he'd got going and settled down. I was sitting with a Coventry fan in the Doug Ellis when he scored that hat-trick against them, which was nice.

He also got two away at Coventry a few weeks before didn't he? 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on March 28, 2021, 10:22:46 AM
From memory, we got our money back off him, Zaragoza sold him for £16m then he went somewhere else for big money. Lovely player once he'd got going and settled down. I was sitting with a Coventry fan in the Doug Ellis when he scored that hat-trick against them, which was nice.

He also got two away at Coventry a few weeks before didn't he? 

Possibly, but I can't remember them.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on March 28, 2021, 10:38:53 AM
I’m sure Savo went for £4m, so a slight profit.

A much derided figure, but he got in to double figures in his first season and started us off with his wonder goal in the league cup final.

I liked him

You’re correct, it was £4m. Then a year later it was £17m. Bloody same thing happened when we got rid of Crouch.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on March 28, 2021, 10:40:13 AM
From memory, we got our money back off him, Zaragoza sold him for £16m then he went somewhere else for big money. Lovely player once he'd got going and settled down. I was sitting with a Coventry fan in the Doug Ellis when he scored that hat-trick against them, which was nice.

He also got two away at Coventry a few weeks before didn't he? 

Possibly, but I can't remember them.



Decent video. The Coventry away goals are the next two goals on there after his debut goal against Blackburn.  Has got the hat trick goals on as well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on March 28, 2021, 10:44:38 AM
He was a lovely footballer as well which gets overlooked, he had a great touch and a wand of a left foot, could switch the play quickly to the rampaging full back on the other wing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on March 28, 2021, 11:41:58 AM
He had a good partnership with Yorke but that was banjoed by the arrival of Collymore.
There are plenty of ex Villa players who are ahead of Savo in the queue for derision.

Amazing to think Julian Joachim outlasted them all - not just at Villa (signed a year before Collymore) but generally as a footballer - the mad fecker is still playing now more than 20 years on!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on March 28, 2021, 11:44:53 AM
I’m sure Savo went for £4m, so a slight profit.

A much derided figure, but he got in to double figures in his first season and started us off with his wonder goal in the league cup final.

I liked him

You’re correct, it was £4m. Then a year later it was £17m. Bloody same thing happened when we got rid of Crouch.

Soccerbase says it was £3.5m so I was right  :P
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on March 28, 2021, 12:28:11 PM
I’m sure Savo went for £4m, so a slight profit.

A much derided figure, but he got in to double figures in his first season and started us off with his wonder goal in the league cup final.

I liked him

You’re correct, it was £4m. Then a year later it was £17m. Bloody same thing happened when we got rid of Crouch.

Soccerbase says it was £3.5m so I was right  :P

Yes, looks like you're right. I just checked the accounts back then and the sales of Savo and Fernando Nelson funded the purchase of Alan Thompson for £4.5m.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Moonraker on March 28, 2021, 12:41:59 PM
Great video on Savo. He knew how to score and also how to miss. Saw the "Ciro Citterio" advertising hoardings up at VP. Took a pair of trousers in to be altered before they closed. Hopefully should be ready by now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on March 28, 2021, 12:55:48 PM
I’m sure Savo went for £4m, so a slight profit.

A much derided figure, but he got in to double figures in his first season and started us off with his wonder goal in the league cup final.

I liked him


O'Leary's biggest mistake was binning Crouch and replacing him with Carlton Cole. I was at Crouch's Villa Park debut against Newcastle and they couldn't handle him. All four Newcastle defenders were booked for fouls against him. He also had a great game at Villa Park when we were chasing a second leg league cup semi final deficit against Bolton. There is a passage in Crouch's autobiography when he tells how Doug Ellis put him up in a  big posh hotel room to get him to sign for us. As soon as the ink was dry on the contract Doug shifted him somewhere else without room to swing a cat. SGT had to sort things out.


Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on March 28, 2021, 01:02:09 PM
Great video on Savo. He knew how to score and also how to miss. Saw the "Ciro Citterio" advertising hoardings up at VP. Took a pair of trousers in to be altered before they closed. Hopefully should be ready by now.


Didn't Savo play for and score for three different nations? Yugoslavia, Serbia & Montenegro and Serbia.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Moonraker on March 28, 2021, 01:20:54 PM
Great question to ask your mates in the pub Damo (16 days and counting)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on March 28, 2021, 01:30:21 PM
Great video on Savo. He knew how to score and also how to miss. Saw the "Ciro Citterio" advertising hoardings up at VP. Took a pair of trousers in to be altered before they closed. Hopefully should be ready by now.


Didn't Savo play for and score for three different nations? Yugoslavia, Serbia & Montenegro and Serbia.

Isn’t that 4?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on March 28, 2021, 01:40:15 PM
I’m sure Savo went for £4m, so a slight profit.

A much derided figure, but he got in to double figures in his first season and started us off with his wonder goal in the league cup final.

I liked him

You’re correct, it was £4m. Then a year later it was £17m. Bloody same thing happened when we got rid of Crouch.

Soccerbase says it was £3.5m so I was right  :P

Soccerbase can fuck off, we got a profit on him, I can remember that clear as day.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 28, 2021, 02:10:51 PM
Great video on Savo. He knew how to score and also how to miss. Saw the "Ciro Citterio" advertising hoardings up at VP. Took a pair of trousers in to be altered before they closed. Hopefully should be ready by now.


Didn't Savo play for and score for three different nations? Yugoslavia, Serbia & Montenegro and Serbia.

Yes. Even though he was from Bosnia and Herzegovina.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 29, 2021, 11:50:14 AM
Great video on Savo. He knew how to score and also how to miss. Saw the "Ciro Citterio" advertising hoardings up at VP. Took a pair of trousers in to be altered before they closed. Hopefully should be ready by now.


Didn't Savo play for and score for three different nations? Yugoslavia, Serbia & Montenegro and Serbia.

Yes. Even though he was from Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Ethnic Serb innit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on March 29, 2021, 03:02:38 PM
Savo missed some sitters but we were a far better team when he was playing.  I guess a lot who critisise him just remeber the misses and are maybe too young to appreciate what a good player he was at his best.  Shouldn't have sold him when we did.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Martin Carruthers on March 29, 2021, 03:09:34 PM
Did I dream it or did he used to do this thing where he'd control a bouncing ball with the back of his thigh, so it looked like he was going to sit on it? Vaguely remember a few of us attempting it with little success.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on March 29, 2021, 05:16:20 PM
Great video on Savo. He knew how to score and also how to miss. Saw the "Ciro Citterio" advertising hoardings up at VP. Took a pair of trousers in to be altered before they closed. Hopefully should be ready by now.


Didn't Savo play for and score for three different nations? Yugoslavia, Serbia & Montenegro and Serbia.

Isn’t that 4?

I might be wrong but I think Serbia & Montenegro were classed as one nation at one point.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on March 29, 2021, 05:21:40 PM
If I just heard correctly Bournemouth, who posted a financial deficit of £32 million in the last financial year have just posted a deficit of £60 million for this financial year.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 29, 2021, 05:21:54 PM
That is correct they were Serbia & Montenegro about 10 years ago ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 29, 2021, 05:23:26 PM
If I just heard correctly Bournemouth, who posted a financial deficit of £32 million in the last financial year have just posted a deficit of £60 million for this financial year.

Wow, just wow.

Shows what happens when a club that size try to compete even with top 10 PL clubs wages / fees etc.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on March 29, 2021, 05:56:45 PM
If they don't get promoted there'll be trouble.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Exeter 77 on March 29, 2021, 08:50:09 PM
That is correct they were Serbia & Montenegro about 10 years ago ?
15 I think.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 29, 2021, 09:05:34 PM
That sounds about right
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on March 29, 2021, 09:34:47 PM
Bournemouth only have to look at Portsmouth to see where they're heading.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LukeJames on March 29, 2021, 10:08:04 PM
Its our fault for turning the goal line technology off.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: N'ZMAV on March 29, 2021, 10:15:05 PM
Its our fault for turning the goal line technology off.
never mind
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on March 29, 2021, 11:19:29 PM
Didn't Bournemouth say they were considering legal action once last season finished about the goal that never was? Wonder how far they tried.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 30, 2021, 12:08:10 AM
Didn't Bournemouth say they were considering legal action once last season finished about the goal that never was? Wonder how far they tried.

I don't think so. To be fair to them, they were very dignified about the affair.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on March 30, 2021, 12:24:01 AM
It was reported on various sites including the BBC and Sky Sports that they were "considering" launching a compensation claim. Either it was made up rubbish (most likely) or they considered it and decided not to.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on March 30, 2021, 01:04:19 AM
Yes, that rings a bell.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: tony scott on March 30, 2021, 04:24:52 AM
I feel sorry for Bournemouth a club of that size attempting to thrive in the Premiership, now seem to be getting into serious trouble for their efforts.  This is a shame because it will encourage clubs of a similar size to tread water.. I feel very happy and fortunate that we have our present owners.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sid1964 on March 30, 2021, 04:43:37 AM
Our loss for the last financial year will probably be £100 million +
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on March 30, 2021, 06:17:47 AM
I feel sorry for Bournemouth a club of that size attempting to thrive in the Premiership, now seem to be getting into serious trouble for their efforts.  This is a shame because it will encourage clubs of a similar size to tread water.. I feel very happy and fortunate that we have our present owners.
Yeah, must've been a bit of a fairytale for them at the time. Weren't they in a bad way financially around the mid 90s? Then the supporters bought the club and they were quite an result example of a fan-owned club. Sure it was them.

Real shame if they do end up struggling again with money.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on March 30, 2021, 06:26:13 AM
I feel sorry for Bournemouth a club of that size attempting to thrive in the Premiership, now seem to be getting into serious trouble for their efforts.  This is a shame because it will encourage clubs of a similar size to tread water.. I feel very happy and fortunate that we have our present owners.
Yeah, must've been a bit of a fairytale for them at the time. Weren't they in a bad way financially around the mid 90s? Then the supporters bought the club and they were quite an result example of a fan-owned club. Sure it was them.

Real shame if they do end up struggling again with money.

They were one game away from dropping out of the league altogether I think.

I don't think Bournemouth's experience will encourage similar clubs to tread water. Footballs a competitive sport and all clubs dream of mixing it at the top of the league. Clubs have over-stretched themselves before and they'll do it again.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 30, 2021, 11:00:05 PM
If I just heard correctly Bournemouth, who posted a financial deficit of £32 million in the last financial year have just posted a deficit of £60 million for this financial year.

That £60 million deficit is before taking into account approximately £50 million raised in player sales, so they might not be the next Portsmouth after all.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: tomd2103 on March 30, 2021, 11:36:57 PM
Didn't Bournemouth say they were considering legal action once last season finished about the goal that never was? Wonder how far they tried.

Weren't Blues and Albion considering similar?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 30, 2021, 11:42:49 PM
Didn't Bournemouth say they were considering legal action once last season finished about the goal that never was? Wonder how far they tried.

Weren't Blues and Albion considering similar?

And Leeds.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on April 02, 2021, 01:42:28 PM
Heaton, Konsa, Cash, Targett and Luiz all set for new deals, with a striker and winger the transfer targets.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: N'ZMAV on April 02, 2021, 01:56:53 PM
A new deal for Heaton would be a surprise - unless he's happy to bench warm for the remainder of his Villa career
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 02, 2021, 02:52:01 PM
A new deal for Heaton would be a surprise - unless he's happy to bench warm for the remainder of his Villa career

It'll be up to him, but as things progress we'll be playing more games in more competitions. There'll be plenty of opportunity for a quality backup to stick a trophy on their own mantelpiece, as our current number one custodian could confirm.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on April 02, 2021, 04:14:32 PM
A new deal for Heaton does not make sense at all.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KevinGage on April 02, 2021, 04:22:34 PM
A new deal for Heaton would be a surprise - unless he's happy to bench warm for the remainder of his Villa career

Martinez's form won't have go unnoticed outside of B6.

The goalkeepers usually work pretty close as a unit and maybe he thinks he'll be off.

I agree, it would be unusual for a keeper of Heaton's ability to be content as backup. He'd improve just about every club in the lower half of the top flight and any side that comes up with money to spend.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on April 02, 2021, 05:19:29 PM
He was back up at Burnley for a while. I'm pleased he wants to stay.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: garyellis on April 02, 2021, 05:20:39 PM
It will be interesting to see the level of investment in the summer.
Pep saying Man City can't afford a replacement for Aguero!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on April 02, 2021, 05:51:30 PM
It will be interesting to see the level of investment in the summer.
Pep saying Man City can't afford a replacement for Aguero!
So they'll have to settle for Haaland then!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: garyellis on April 02, 2021, 06:17:03 PM
It will be interesting to see the level of investment in the summer.
Pep saying Man City can't afford a replacement for Aguero!
So they'll have to settle for Haaland then!!
Is it a Pep bluff or have the taps been switched off?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on April 02, 2021, 06:51:45 PM
It will be interesting to see the level of investment in the summer.
Pep saying Man City can't afford a replacement for Aguero!
So they'll have to settle for Haaland then!!
Is it a Pep bluff or have the taps been switched off?
Who cares? ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 02, 2021, 07:26:58 PM
Guardiola is at it. You'd know if they were suddenly going to stop spending money, he wouldn't be the manager any more.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on April 02, 2021, 10:02:39 PM
It will be interesting to see the level of investment in the summer.
Pep saying Man City can't afford a replacement for Aguero!
What a shame the poor loves are having to struggle on with a squad cobbled together for peanuts. Well about a billion pounds worth of peanuts.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 02, 2021, 10:26:41 PM
Guardiola is at it. You'd know if they were suddenly going to stop spending money, he wouldn't be the manager any more.
Yep, why would he come out and say, we are definitely going to buy a centre forward.
Of course he is going to play down his motive.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Matt C on April 03, 2021, 12:31:50 AM
Thought I read Heaton’s current contract had some sort of break clause this summer (I could very well be wrong) so perhaps we’re trying to get rid of that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: jwarry on April 05, 2021, 03:33:17 PM
I see Jrue Holiday M Bucks gets a 40m dollar a year contract from Wes yesterday. He’s obviously not afraid to pay it big wages is he!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 05, 2021, 04:02:45 PM
Thought I read Heaton’s current contract had some sort of break clause this summer (I could very well be wrong) so perhaps we’re trying to get rid of that.

I think he'll move on as it's exactly the same situation as happened at Burnley. He's first choice, gets season ending injury and then Nick Pope comes in and makes number one spot his own. Think Tom was backup for a season and then moved to us and he's obviously a few years older now.

We have Steer and the lad in goal v Liverpool looked a pretty good prospect but probably need to get another keeper in as you just know the day after we let Heaton go Martinez or Steer will trip over the goalnet in training and be out for the season! Perhaps a loan somewhere until January would be more sensible.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aev on June 29, 2021, 01:40:55 PM
Owner's father passes away.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-29/onsi-sawiris-patriarch-of-egypt-billionaire-dynasty-dies-at-90
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on June 29, 2021, 11:03:19 PM
Sad news. RIP Mr Sawiris Senior.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 29, 2021, 11:05:24 PM
RIP.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on July 03, 2021, 11:30:48 AM
Slight sidetrack…..
Morrisons the supermarket has just agreed £6.3b takeover by Fortress Investment Group.
Would that be Wes Eden’s FIG ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 03, 2021, 11:35:54 AM
Slight sidetrack…..
Morrisons the supermarket has just agreed £6.3b takeover by Fortress Investment Group.
Would that be Wes Eden’s FIG ?

Yes.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: exigo on July 03, 2021, 12:21:39 PM
So there'll still be a twenty minute wait to get served at half time, but the pie that means you miss the start of the second half will be better quality.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 03, 2021, 12:27:15 PM
So there'll still be a twenty minute wait to get served at half time, but the pie that means you miss the start of the second half will be better quality.

Plus we're signing Clinton as cover for Watkins.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 03, 2021, 05:29:43 PM
So there'll still be a twenty minute wait to get served at half time, but the pie that means you miss the start of the second half will be better quality.

Plus we're signing Clinton as cover for Watkins.

I've heard Hillary will fail the medical.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: passport1 on July 03, 2021, 05:50:37 PM
Slight sidetrack…..
Morrisons the supermarket has just agreed £6.3b takeover by Fortress Investment Group.
Would that be Wes Eden’s FIG ?

Yes.

Hopefully he will be a lot wealthier when he has finished gearing up the Morrisons  balance sheet.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 03, 2021, 06:03:50 PM
So there'll still be a twenty minute wait to get served at half time, but the pie that means you miss the start of the second half will be better quality.

Plus we're signing Clinton as cover for Watkins.

I've heard Hillary will fail the medical.

No, she's going to be with Chelsea.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on July 04, 2021, 12:35:45 AM
So there'll still be a twenty minute wait to get served at half time, but the pie that means you miss the start of the second half will be better quality.

And it will have been steamed by those weird things that Morrisons - but no other supermarket - have. Going vegetable shopping at Morrisons is akin to entering a Conan Doyle novella.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 04, 2021, 06:28:51 AM
Well done to our Wes Edens. His Milwaukee Bucks finally made it into the NBA finals where they will play the Phoenix Suns. Game one is next Tuesday evening.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nii Lamptey on July 04, 2021, 09:13:40 AM
Yep, we’re in good hands. Good luck to the Bucks in the finals!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Axl Rose on July 04, 2021, 09:15:31 AM
If the Pistons aren't winning it (never likely) I'd be happy for Wes and his Bucks.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 04, 2021, 09:34:09 AM
Well done to our Wes Edens. His Milwaukee Bucks finally made it into the NBA finals where they will play the Phoenix Suns. Game one is next Tuesday evening.

Is that like the final? Are they the champions if they win?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 04, 2021, 10:05:11 AM
Well done to our Wes Edens. His Milwaukee Bucks finally made it into the NBA finals where they will play the Phoenix Suns. Game one is next Tuesday evening.

Is that like the final? Are they the champions if they win?

It's a seven game series a bit like the World Series in rounders. And yes, the winners are the Champions. Hopefully they win and it makes Wes even hungrier for more this side of the pond.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 04, 2021, 10:20:31 AM
Well done to our Wes Edens. His Milwaukee Bucks finally made it into the NBA finals where they will play the Phoenix Suns. Game one is next Tuesday evening.

Is that like the final? Are they the champions if they win?

It's a seven game series a bit like the World Series in rounders. And yes, the winners are the Champions. Hopefully they win and it makes Wes even hungrier for more this side of the pond.

Cheers mate, haha. Go Netball!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hairbandinho on July 04, 2021, 03:00:00 PM
As a financial idiot, I am confused. Is there a limit within FFP relating to how much share capital the owners can put in? If not we just have unlimited funds as far as the owners are willing to invest?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 04, 2021, 03:13:58 PM
Well done to our Wes Edens. His Milwaukee Bucks finally made it into the NBA finals where they will play the Phoenix Suns. Game one is next Tuesday evening.

Is that like the final? Are they the champions if they win?

It's a seven game series a bit like the World Series in rounders. And yes, the winners are the Champions.

Similarly the winners are referred to as "World Champions", the main difference is the Kardashian and Jenner sisters usually show up for the celebrations.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 04, 2021, 03:50:49 PM
As a financial idiot, I am confused. Is there a limit within FFP relating to how much share capital the owners can put in? If not we just have unlimited funds as far as the owners are willing to invest?
No, it’s about the level of losses a club is allowed to sustain.
Ie it’s a trading account not a Balance Sheet ratio.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on July 04, 2021, 04:06:08 PM
What are the Bucks chances of winning the NBA finals i.e where would they be ranked in terms of favourites?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: darren woolley on July 04, 2021, 04:08:13 PM
Good luck to the Bucks in the NBA finals I hope they win it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 04, 2021, 04:23:48 PM
What are the Bucks chances of winning the NBA finals i.e where would they be ranked in terms of favourites?

They are one of the top teams in the NBA and will be favourites in the final if top player Giannis Antetokounmpo is healthy. He’s their Jack so to speak in that best player in the NBA and secured to a long term deal last year when he was being courted by other bigger market teams. It is a team that has fallen short the last few years despite having a lot of talent so no they are in the final they will be expected to win it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 04, 2021, 04:29:21 PM
They only have won one Championship which was in 1971 so 50 years on would be a nice time to get a second.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on July 04, 2021, 04:31:45 PM
And the beauty is there is a real correlation between them and our story. Wes is reaping the rewards of his leadership, and hopefully is bringing the lessons he has learned across the pond to us.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OzVilla on July 18, 2021, 08:42:00 AM
You’ve got to love Wes Edens. The Bucks beat the Suns to be 1 win away from an NBA title and he’s going mental on the sidelines in his Villa t-shirt. This is the team they took them from nowhere to the brink by building around their star player. If JG leaves it’s down to JG asking. No way will these boys sell him.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 18, 2021, 09:53:14 AM
Even if JG asked I can’t see him/them allowing it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nunkin1965 on July 18, 2021, 10:22:10 AM
You’ve got to love Wes Edens. The Bucks beat the Suns to be 1 win away from an NBA title and he’s going mental on the sidelines in his Villa t-shirt. This is the team they took them from nowhere to the brink by building around their star player. If JG leaves it’s down to JG asking. No way will these boys sell him.

This is exactly what's going to happen with us.
They wouldn't be owners if they didn't want to replicate this almost incredible achievement.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 18, 2021, 10:46:14 AM
If they win it, what would be the football equivalent?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 18, 2021, 10:49:17 AM
If they win it, what would be the football equivalent?

The Premier League title.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 18, 2021, 11:01:22 AM
I mean more of who would it be like winning the title. Is it a massive shock or are they usually pretty decent anyway if not massively successful?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OzVilla on July 18, 2021, 11:17:32 AM
I mean more of who would it be like winning the title. Is it a massive shock or are they usually pretty decent anyway if not massively successful?

They’ve built a good team around Giannis (mvp) for the last few years but as a club they’ve  won 1 championship in 53 years, and that was 50 years ago so no they aren’t historically one of the glamour teams.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 18, 2021, 11:23:56 AM
You’ve got to love Wes Edens. The Bucks beat the Suns to be 1 win away from an NBA title and he’s going mental on the sidelines in his Villa t-shirt. This is the team they took them from nowhere to the brink by building around their star player. If JG leaves it’s down to JG asking. No way will these boys sell him.

I didn’t get round last night to posting that. It was ace. And it will only make him more determined to keep Jack as he watches his best player Giannis, who he signed to a long term deal, help lead his team to what he hopes is a long awaited NBA title. Their first in a very long time. It would be a spectacular achievement.

You keep your best players and build around them. Right now he has one of the top players in the PL in Jack. Add the right pieces and we will have chance to do great things.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: oldtimernow on July 18, 2021, 11:38:13 AM
Wes Edens on the threshold of making Milwaukee famous instead of Schlitz beer..

Can he replace Ansells as well then?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 18, 2021, 12:01:50 PM
I mean more of who would it be like winning the title. Is it a massive shock or are they usually pretty decent anyway if not massively successful?

They’ve built a good team around Giannis (mvp) for the last few years but as a club they’ve  won 1 championship in 53 years, and that was 50 years ago so no they aren’t historically one of the glamour teams.

So Villa then essentially.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 18, 2021, 12:45:41 PM
If they win it, what would be the football equivalent?

The Premier League title.
like a Leicester, Liverpool or Man United title win?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on July 18, 2021, 12:59:27 PM
I mean more of who would it be like winning the title. Is it a massive shock or are they usually pretty decent anyway if not massively successful?

They’ve built a good team around Giannis (mvp) for the last few years but as a club they’ve  won 1 championship in 53 years, and that was 50 years ago so no they aren’t historically one of the glamour teams.

So Villa then essentially.

Sounds more Tottenham esque
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Stu on July 18, 2021, 01:08:39 PM
If they win it, what would be the football equivalent?

The Premier League title.

Do you think? I see it, and US sports in general like the superbowl, world series etc, as more of a champions league win. Like, they have various leagues from which teams qualify for a KO tournament. Also means the best team doesn't always win the big prize though!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 18, 2021, 01:13:20 PM
I mean more of who would it be like winning the title. Is it a massive shock or are they usually pretty decent anyway if not massively successful?

They’ve built a good team around Giannis (mvp) for the last few years but as a club they’ve  won 1 championship in 53 years, and that was 50 years ago so no they aren’t historically one of the glamour teams.

So Villa then essentially.

Sounds more Tottenham esque

Yes that would be a better comparison. But Tottenham under Pochettino had they and not Leicester won the league. They’d built a really good team, Kane was just becoming a superstar striker. What Leicester did may never again be repeated at any level of league sports. To come from nearly going down the season before to winning it all has no comparison I can think of.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 18, 2021, 01:13:46 PM
If they win it, what would be the football equivalent?

The Premier League title.

Do you think? I see it, and US sports in general like the superbowl, world series etc, as more of a champions league win. Like, they have various leagues from which teams qualify for a KO tournament. Also means the best team doesn't always win the big prize though!

Yeah, more like a Champions League win for me too. Or even better, an FA Cup *wink*
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 18, 2021, 01:17:03 PM
The NBA isn’t a cup tournament. The Champions League maybe. It’s still a season of games then playoffs. They didn’t luckily make the playoffs. For a few seasons now they’ve been dominating that and then falling short in the playoffs. This season they finally finish it off.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 18, 2021, 01:22:48 PM
Do you think? I see it, and US sports in general like the superbowl, world series etc, as more of a champions league win. Like, they have various leagues from which teams qualify for a KO tournament. Also means the best team doesn't always win the big prize though!

I agree, it's more like us winning the Champions League as it's the preeminent 'club' competition in basketball.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Stu on July 18, 2021, 01:47:58 PM
The NBA isn’t a cup tournament. The Champions League maybe. It’s still a season of games then playoffs. They didn’t luckily make the playoffs. For a few seasons now they’ve been dominating that and then falling short in the playoffs. This season they finally finish it off.

Well it's not a direct analogy because the sports are organised into a season ending knockout comp, but it's the closest comparable thing though as I see it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Stu on July 18, 2021, 01:49:44 PM
If they win it, what would be the football equivalent?

The Premier League title.

Do you think? I see it, and US sports in general like the superbowl, world series etc, as more of a champions league win. Like, they have various leagues from which teams qualify for a KO tournament. Also means the best team doesn't always win the big prize though!

Yeah, more like a Champions League win for me too. Or even better, an FA Cup *wink*

One day, Percy. One day.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 18, 2021, 02:27:18 PM
If they win it, what would be the football equivalent?

The Premier League title.

Do you think? I see it, and US sports in general like the superbowl, world series etc, as more of a champions league win. Like, they have various leagues from which teams qualify for a KO tournament. Also means the best team doesn't always win the big prize though!

It's the end point of the domestic league season though, and they don't have an equivalent Champions League where they play winners of other leagues.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on July 18, 2021, 03:28:52 PM
Any pics of Wes and his beautiful daughter in Villa shirts roaring on the Bucks last night?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 18, 2021, 03:32:39 PM
If they win it, what would be the football equivalent?

The Premier League title.

Do you think? I see it, and US sports in general like the superbowl, world series etc, as more of a champions league win. Like, they have various leagues from which teams qualify for a KO tournament. Also means the best team doesn't always win the big prize though!

It's the end point of the domestic league season though, and they don't have an equivalent Champions League where they play winners of other leagues.

True.

Pick your own criteria I suppose. I was just thinking it’s the most important and prestigious title in the sport. Like ‘Champions League winners’ is.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on July 18, 2021, 03:43:43 PM
Any pics of Wes and his beautiful daughter in Villa shirts roaring on the Bucks last night?
A few seconds from the end of the clip you can see Wes in a Villa t-shirt. I presume that is his daughter next to him:
https://twitter.com/Bucks/status/1416601744696430594
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 18, 2021, 05:02:59 PM
Any pics of Wes and his beautiful daughter in Villa shirts roaring on the Bucks last night?
A few seconds from the end of the clip you can see Wes in a Villa t-shirt. I presume that is his daughter next to him:
https://twitter.com/Bucks/status/1416601744696430594

Might be his wife Lynn (but don't think so), definitely not his daughter Mallory.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on July 18, 2021, 05:12:27 PM
Any pics of Wes and his beautiful daughter in Villa shirts roaring on the Bucks last night?
A few seconds from the end of the clip you can see Wes in a Villa t-shirt. I presume that is his daughter next to him:
https://twitter.com/Bucks/status/1416601744696430594

Might be his wife Lynn (but don't think so), definitely not his daughter Mallory.
I'll take your word for it BV. Your knowledge and degree of certainty suggests it is something you have studied!  ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 19, 2021, 12:43:40 AM
https://www.elle.com/culture/a27583713/who-is-mallory-edens-milwaukee-bucks-drake/
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rico on July 19, 2021, 09:42:47 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/XsjgwJh/mallory-drake-comp-1558718110-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XsjgwJh)

Mallory Edens. Very nice.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on July 19, 2021, 10:04:01 AM
Not sure why she was sitting next to that bar steward Aaron Rodgers
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on July 19, 2021, 10:13:09 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/XsjgwJh/mallory-drake-comp-1558718110-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XsjgwJh)

Mallory Edens. Very nice.



great shirt x
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on July 19, 2021, 10:21:23 AM
Not sure why she was sitting next to that bar steward Aaron Rodgers

He's a good bloke by all accounts I've seen.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 19, 2021, 10:33:20 AM
Not sure why she was sitting next to that bar steward Aaron Rodgers

He's a part owner of the Milwaukee Bucks.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on July 19, 2021, 12:14:53 PM
She could have used her time productively and put her heal through his foot
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on July 19, 2021, 12:29:54 PM
Wes Edens on the threshold of making Milwaukee famous instead of Schlitz beer..

Can he replace Ansells as well then?
Well, it made a loser out of me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hockley Lion on July 20, 2021, 12:12:38 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/XsjgwJh/mallory-drake-comp-1558718110-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XsjgwJh)

Mallory Edens. Very nice.



great shirt x

Perhaps she's the Totty Jack was admiring 🤭!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 20, 2021, 03:39:07 AM
The totty? Charming
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Scott Nielsen on July 20, 2021, 08:57:28 AM
The totty? Charming

I think a reference to Jack's comments on F. Totti.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 20, 2021, 08:59:05 AM
The totty? Charming

These days, if you say you’re sexist, you’ll be arrested and thrown in jail.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: not3bad on July 20, 2021, 10:57:34 AM
https://twitter.com/HeartOfTheHolte/status/1417406500960624673?s=20
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Axl Rose on July 21, 2021, 02:20:44 AM
Good luck to the Bucks in game 6, going on right now
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 21, 2021, 02:35:21 AM
25-14 up early stages.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 21, 2021, 02:57:44 AM
A disastrous second quarter now losing 35-33.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 21, 2021, 03:23:00 AM
First time I’ve taken any notice, but I’ve seen these mad swings in a couple of the games. Is it tactical genius by the coaches, countering the ways the other team have had success in the previous quarter? Is it common?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 21, 2021, 03:24:40 AM
Anyway, come on the Bucks!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 21, 2021, 03:25:37 AM
Losing 47-42 half time.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 21, 2021, 03:38:15 AM
On a roll now, led by the Greek Grealish. Suns rattled.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 21, 2021, 03:41:05 AM
Bucks winning!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 21, 2021, 03:41:42 AM
Bucks losing. Ffs.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 21, 2021, 04:05:53 AM
Bucks drawing with one quarter to go.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 21, 2021, 04:21:24 AM
I write with such insight about basketball, if I do say so myself.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 21, 2021, 04:23:23 AM
Tense, innit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 21, 2021, 04:23:36 AM
Giannis gets a dunk and then he finds a Paul misstep. A Middleton shot attempt would drive the arena crazy, but it misses. Booker however gets called for an offensive foul, that gives the ball right back to Milwaukee. They can’t score, despite getting two attempts. Suns have another chance to cut this down… Crowder with a crazy jumper gets it. Four-point game. Bucks call a timeout.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 21, 2021, 04:24:25 AM
^^ from The Guardian in case you didn’t guess.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 21, 2021, 04:25:27 AM
Giannis is at 16 out of 17 free throws. Note: until like, this series, free throws were the WEAKEST part of his game. Absolutely ridiculous.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 21, 2021, 04:28:04 AM
Suns 90-98 Bucks, 3:37, 4th quarter
Booker gets stripped by Tucker and fouls Tucker on the other end. The Bucks can’t score and neither can the Suns. Ayton with a miss and Giannis hits one off the glass on the other end. The stadium is shaking.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 21, 2021, 04:30:16 AM
^^ from The Guardian in case you didn’t guess.

For a fleeting moment I thought you were at the game!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 21, 2021, 04:35:17 AM
It’s great you lot are watching this live despite the time difference. It’s absolutely mad in the Deer District. They all started doing that since the Toronto Raptors created Jurassic Park. Covid concerns aside it’s a great environment.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 21, 2021, 04:42:59 AM
Many congratulations to Wes Edens and his Milwaukee Bucks for winning the NBA title tonight. What a spectacular performance by Giannis, their Jack Grealish scored 50 points which is truly outstanding in clinching game.

Enjoy the feeling Wes and bring that to Villa Park. We got work to do.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 21, 2021, 04:44:09 AM
The black Jack Grealish has scored 50 points.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 21, 2021, 04:45:57 AM
It’s great you lot are watching this live despite the time difference. It’s absolutely mad in the Deer District. They all started doing that since the Toronto Raptors created Jurassic Park. Covid concerns aside it’s a great environment.

I’m at work watching the Guardian blog.

Well done and congrats Wes!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villadelph on July 21, 2021, 04:48:07 AM
If he can do it in Milwaukee then he can do it in Birmingham.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 21, 2021, 04:48:51 AM
Yeh those Bucks are the winningest in the NBA.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OzVilla on July 21, 2021, 04:56:16 AM
Brilliant, he'll be more determined than ever to do the same at the Villa I reckon.

How much money will winning that have made the Bucks I wonder?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 21, 2021, 05:01:39 AM
Brilliant, he'll be more determined than ever to do the same at the Villa I reckon.

How much money will winning that have made the Bucks I wonder?

I have no idea, but it emphasises the importance of keeping your best players.

Giannis MVP obvs.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Axl Rose on July 21, 2021, 05:55:27 AM
It’s great you lot are watching this live despite the time difference. It’s absolutely mad in the Deer District. They all started doing that since the Toronto Raptors created Jurassic Park. Covid concerns aside it’s a great environment.

10am start here, mate. Perfect really!

I like these names, too-the Greek Grealish, and the black Jack Grealish! The latter especially has a nice ring to it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OzVilla on July 21, 2021, 07:38:15 AM
Giannis in his post match interview.  "This is my city and I wanted to do it here, it's easy to go and win a championship with somebody else. I could go to a super team, just do my part, and win a championship, but this is the hard way to do it and we did it man, we did it".

I'm sure our Jack will see that.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on July 21, 2021, 07:42:52 AM
Pleased for Wes. Their first championship for 50 years and he is one of the biggest driving forces behind it.
I hope he’s getting addicted to that winning feeling.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: rob_bridge on July 21, 2021, 09:58:37 AM
Great victory for Bucks that - not many come from 2 down to win 4-2
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 21, 2021, 10:06:42 AM


https://twitter.com/bucks/status/1417710800584646659?s=24

Hope Jack is feeling the same
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lsvilla on July 21, 2021, 10:06:53 AM
Giannis in his post match interview.  "This is my city and I wanted to do it here, it's easy to go and win a championship with somebody else. I could go to a super team, just do my part, and win a championship, but this is the hard way to do it and we did it man, we did it".

I'm sure our Jack will see that.


That’s awesome. Imagine Jack saying that in a couple of years from now. There’d be no dry eyes on here.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 21, 2021, 10:07:28 AM
I write with such insight about basketball, if I do say so myself.

I could tell you were a basketball novice as you were following the whole game instead of just waiting for the last quarter.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on July 21, 2021, 10:10:14 AM
YESSSS!! (I know nowt about basketball but this reflects well on us. Wes will be pumped for more sporting glory, and as has been mentioned, the parallels in our local, star heroes are something that can be solidified. It also Proves our owners to be winners in business and sport....let all the goodwill flow to B6 please).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on July 21, 2021, 11:11:52 AM
I don't know why but basketball and tennis are pretty much the only sports I just can't stand watching on TV.  And this is from somone who can lose half a day watching Kabaddi, golf, curling, lacross, cycling, hockey... pretty much anything other than basketball.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on July 21, 2021, 11:18:37 AM
Basketball and hurling are two games that move so fast, one end to the other, with a fairly high chance of scoring with the team in possession from each restart that I often wonder how much tactics can really influence the outcome.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 21, 2021, 11:24:50 AM
Just imagine this is Jack saying this

https://twitter.com/bucks/status/1417710800584646659?s=21
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 21, 2021, 11:27:54 AM
I’ve just been advised that their MVP nickname is the Greek Freak.   I’m hoping that’s not disrespectful!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 21, 2021, 11:35:16 AM
I’ve just been advised that their MVP nickname is the Greek Freak.   I’m hoping that’s not disrespectful!

It’s what he is known as here and it’s all to do with his astonishing ability. At his size he simply shouldn’t be able to do a lot of things he can. It’s very much a term of endearment.

Also from last night

Quote
“I could go to a Super team and just do my part and win, but this is the hard way to do it and the right way to do it. And we did it. We did it. We f%*ing did it.” Giannis #Bucks #NBa
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 21, 2021, 11:48:51 AM
Just imagine this is Jack saying this

https://twitter.com/bucks/status/1417710800584646659?s=21

Ahem...see 6 posts up
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 21, 2021, 11:57:35 AM
Just imagine this is Jack saying this

https://twitter.com/bucks/status/1417710800584646659?s=21

Ahem...see 6 posts up

Oh yeh…Bloody time zone
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 21, 2021, 12:55:25 PM
I’ve just been advised that their MVP nickname is the Greek Freak.   I’m hoping that’s not disrespectful!

It’s what he is known as here and it’s all to do with his astonishing ability. At his size he simply shouldn’t be able to do a lot of things he can. It’s very much a term of endearment.

Also from last night

Quote
“I could go to a Super team and just do my part and win, but this is the hard way to do it and the right way to do it. And we did it. We did it. We f%*ing did it.” Giannis #Bucks #NBa


I'm probably like most on here, wouldn't know one end of a basketball bat from the other. And if it hadn't been that I didn't get in from work til 3am I most likely would never have watched. But there's something about Giannis, how he moves, the seemingly effortless languid style that only the best in any sport are ever blessed with, that makes him very watchable. Edens, he knows what people want to watch.

And you know, it was a pleasant change to not have an emotional moment detracted by a "we'd just like to apologise for any strong language our viewers might have heard there."
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: rob_bridge on July 21, 2021, 02:51:19 PM
I’ve just been advised that their MVP nickname is the Greek Freak.   I’m hoping that’s not disrespectful!

It’s what he is known as here and it’s all to do with his astonishing ability. At his size he simply shouldn’t be able to do a lot of things he can. It’s very much a term of endearment.

Also from last night

Quote
“I could go to a Super team and just do my part and win, but this is the hard way to do it and the right way to do it. And we did it. We did it. We f%*ing did it.” Giannis #Bucks #NBa


I'm probably like most on here, wouldn't know one end of a basketball bat from the other. And if it hadn't been that I didn't get in from work til 3am I most likely would never have watched. But there's something about Giannis, how he moves, the seemingly effortless languid style that only the best in any sport are ever blessed with, that makes him very watchable. Edens, he knows what people want to watch.

And you know, it was a pleasant change to not have an emotional moment detracted by a "we'd just like to apologise for any strong language our viewers might have heard there."

When you watch the very best in any sport - Simone Biles and Wayne Gretzky, Tom Brady, Messi most recent example in football you don't need to know all that much about it to see how good they are. Giannis will never surpass Jordan (due to his massive influence on sportswear marketing) but he could match him on court
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 21, 2021, 02:57:48 PM
I’ve just been advised that their MVP nickname is the Greek Freak.   I’m hoping that’s not disrespectful!

It’s what he is known as here and it’s all to do with his astonishing ability. At his size he simply shouldn’t be able to do a lot of things he can. It’s very much a term of endearment.

Also from last night

Quote
“I could go to a Super team and just do my part and win, but this is the hard way to do it and the right way to do it. And we did it. We did it. We f%*ing did it.” Giannis #Bucks #NBa


I'm probably like most on here, wouldn't know one end of a basketball bat from the other. And if it hadn't been that I didn't get in from work til 3am I most likely would never have watched. But there's something about Giannis, how he moves, the seemingly effortless languid style that only the best in any sport are ever blessed with, that makes him very watchable. Edens, he knows what people want to watch.

And you know, it was a pleasant change to not have an emotional moment detracted by a "we'd just like to apologise for any strong language our viewers might have heard there."

When you watch the very best in any sport - Simone Biles and Wayne Gretzky, Tom Brady, Messi most recent example in football you don't need to know all that much about it to see how good they are. Giannis will never surpass Jordan (due to his massive influence on sportswear marketing) but he could match him on court

Yep, that's how i look at it, seeing the quality of some players requires an understanding of the game, and how you rate them depends on personal preferences in play style, etc but sometimes you get world class talents who stand out regardless of how much you know about the sport. I think Jack is getting towards that point now as well and I think our owners see clear comparisons between him and Giannis and are trying to build around him in the same way.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 21, 2021, 03:16:52 PM
I know nothing about basketball, but he looks a bit good:

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 21, 2021, 03:25:13 PM
I know nothing about basketball, but he looks a bit good:

Same here as haven't watched much NBA in recent years but worth noting one of his middle names is 'Ugo'
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: purpletrousers on July 21, 2021, 06:07:05 PM
I know nothing about basketball, but he looks a bit good:


Lovely! Made me smile.

G’wan Jack. The right way.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 22, 2021, 10:09:13 AM
More evidence that Wes isn't a guy who's content to be there 'just to make up the numbers'. https://twitter.com/MedensEdens/status/1417888492181409792
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 22, 2021, 10:25:11 AM
That's an eye opener.  The Bucks' value has risen from $300 million to $1.6 billion? Don't know if that's the truth but it's quite staggering. I guess that's all based around having the hottest most sought after talent playing for them and maybe the reason why Villa's value is now £300 million (something I heard the other day) with JG on the books.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on July 22, 2021, 10:34:11 AM
More evidence that Wes isn't a guy who's content to be there 'just to make up the numbers'. https://twitter.com/MedensEdens/status/1417888492181409792

Love this.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on July 22, 2021, 11:47:56 AM
That's an eye opener.  The Bucks' value has risen from $300 million to $1.6 billion? Don't know if that's the truth but it's quite staggering. I guess that's all based around having the hottest most sought after talent playing for them and maybe the reason why Villa's value is now £300 million (something I heard the other day) with JG on the books.
I'd guess it's because Giannis/Grealish will sell shirts to people who don't have a strong tie to a particular team in the UK.  A bit like, when I was a kid, I had a Fiorentina shirt with 'Batistuta' on the back.  Never been within 100km of Florence, never seen Fiorentina play except a couple of games on Football Italia.  Someone like Grealish is the same.  People will buy Villa shirts because (a) we've got probably the 2nd best name (behind Spurs) in the league, and (b) arguably the best player in the league in Jack.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 22, 2021, 11:50:31 AM
That's an eye opener.  The Bucks' value has risen from $300 million to $1.6 billion? Don't know if that's the truth but it's quite staggering. I guess that's all based around having the hottest most sought after talent playing for them and maybe the reason why Villa's value is now £300 million (something I heard the other day) with JG on the books.

(a) we've got probably the 2nd best name (behind Spurs) in the league

What fresh hell is this?!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on July 22, 2021, 11:57:53 AM
That's an eye opener.  The Bucks' value has risen from $300 million to $1.6 billion? Don't know if that's the truth but it's quite staggering. I guess that's all based around having the hottest most sought after talent playing for them and maybe the reason why Villa's value is now £300 million (something I heard the other day) with JG on the books.

(a) we've got probably the 2nd best name (behind Spurs) in the league

What fresh hell is this?!
Tottenham Hotspur / Spurs is a good name, like something you'd have in Roy of the Rovers.  I'd give them that. 

Ours is comfortably the next best IMO.  Plymouth Argyle is a good name too, I think.  Then there's a massive drop off.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 22, 2021, 12:02:52 PM
Burn the witch!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 22, 2021, 12:34:37 PM
Tottenham Hotspur didn’t catch Tom Hanks’ ear.

Have a stern word with yourself algy.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 22, 2021, 12:37:25 PM
That's an eye opener.  The Bucks' value has risen from $300 million to $1.6 billion? Don't know if that's the truth but it's quite staggering. I guess that's all based around having the hottest most sought after talent playing for them and maybe the reason why Villa's value is now £300 million (something I heard the other day) with JG on the books.

(a) we've got probably the 2nd best name (behind Spurs) in the league

What fresh hell is this?!

He must be having some kind of breakdown.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Neil Hawkes on July 22, 2021, 12:40:50 PM
I just read the 1st page comments again & bejesus we have come a long way in such a short period of time.
NS & WE, I doff my cap to you both and long may our journey be linked.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 22, 2021, 12:43:32 PM
That's an eye opener.  The Bucks' value has risen from $300 million to $1.6 billion? Don't know if that's the truth but it's quite staggering. I guess that's all based around having the hottest most sought after talent playing for them and maybe the reason why Villa's value is now £300 million (something I heard the other day) with JG on the books.

(a) we've got probably the 2nd best name (behind Spurs) in the league

What fresh hell is this?!
Tottenham Hotspur / Spurs is a good name, like something you'd have in Roy of the Rovers.  I'd give them that. 

Ours is comfortably the next best IMO.  Plymouth Argyle is a good name too, I think.  Then there's a massive drop off.

I like Manchester United. Firstly because of Manchester and Oasis and that, and secondly because United is dead original.

FFS, 2nd best name my arse.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on July 22, 2021, 12:47:39 PM
I just read the 1st page comments again & bejesus we have come a long way in such a short period of time.
NS & WE, I doff my cap to you both and long may our journey be linked.

I'm afraid to check who were dreaming of....Neil Madison, the tubby Southampton striker? Now it's James all the way, baby.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Neil Hawkes on July 22, 2021, 12:50:50 PM
I just read the 1st page comments again & bejesus we have come a long way in such a short period of time.
NS & WE, I doff my cap to you both and long may our journey be linked.

I'm afraid to check who were dreaming of....Neil Madison, the tubby Southampton striker? Now it's James all the way, baby.
I was smiling by the time I'd got to selling our Jack for 20-25 mill, to avoid FFP.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 22, 2021, 12:51:38 PM
That's an eye opener.  The Bucks' value has risen from $300 million to $1.6 billion? Don't know if that's the truth but it's quite staggering. I guess that's all based around having the hottest most sought after talent playing for them and maybe the reason why Villa's value is now £300 million (something I heard the other day) with JG on the books.

(a) we've got probably the 2nd best name (behind Spurs) in the league

What fresh hell is this?!
Tottenham Hotspur / Spurs is a good name, like something you'd have in Roy of the Rovers.  I'd give them that. 

Ours is comfortably the next best IMO.  Plymouth Argyle is a good name too, I think.  Then there's a massive drop off.

I like Manchester United. Firstly because of Manchester and Oasis and that, and secondly because United is dead original.

FFS, 2nd best name my arse.


I am not sure Liam & Noel would appreciate you liking Oasis because of Manchester United  ;D
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Richard E on July 22, 2021, 01:04:56 PM
Melchester Rovers is a name you'd have in Roy of the Rovers, and nobody would say that was a good name.

The opposition tended to be "Weston Villa" or "Everpool" from what I recall.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OzVilla on July 22, 2021, 01:38:00 PM
We have the greatest name in sporting history, a unique thing of class and beauty.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Exeter 77 on July 22, 2021, 01:39:58 PM
Melchester Rovers is a name you'd have in Roy of the Rovers, and nobody would say that was a good name.

The opposition tended to be "Weston Villa" or "Everpool" from what I recall.
Not to mention Carford City and Stambridge.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 22, 2021, 02:14:39 PM
That's an eye opener.  The Bucks' value has risen from $300 million to $1.6 billion? Don't know if that's the truth but it's quite staggering. I guess that's all based around having the hottest most sought after talent playing for them and maybe the reason why Villa's value is now £300 million (something I heard the other day) with JG on the books.

(a) we've got probably the 2nd best name (behind Spurs) in the league

What fresh hell is this?!
Tottenham Hotspur / Spurs is a good name, like something you'd have in Roy of the Rovers.  I'd give them that. 

Ours is comfortably the next best IMO.  Plymouth Argyle is a good name too, I think.  Then there's a massive drop off.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but mate…that’s a shit one. Just sayin’ like
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on July 22, 2021, 02:16:56 PM
That's an eye opener.  The Bucks' value has risen from $300 million to $1.6 billion? Don't know if that's the truth but it's quite staggering. I guess that's all based around having the hottest most sought after talent playing for them and maybe the reason why Villa's value is now £300 million (something I heard the other day) with JG on the books.

(a) we've got probably the 2nd best name (behind Spurs) in the league

What fresh hell is this?!
Tottenham Hotspur / Spurs is a good name, like something you'd have in Roy of the Rovers.  I'd give them that. 

Ours is comfortably the next best IMO.  Plymouth Argyle is a good name too, I think.  Then there's a massive drop off.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but mate…that’s a shit one. Just sayin’ like



ha ha must be the heat 😀
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 22, 2021, 02:23:23 PM
If we were talking club nicknames,  yes, we are far behind.

My favourite being Morecambe, The Shrimps.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on July 22, 2021, 02:54:31 PM
Our name is easily the best. After that I have to say that generally Scottish names beat English names. Queen of the South, Heart of Midlothian,  Raith Rovers, Ferranti aka Meadowbank Thistle (why did they change to Livingston ? boring !), Gala Fairydean Rovers, Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic. Then you have the incredibly unquicky Albion Rovers. Based in Coatbridge and resulting from a merger of two teams, the boringly named Albion FC and yes you guessed it the equally boringly named Rovers FC.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 22, 2021, 03:32:58 PM
Our name is easily the best. After that I have to say that generally Scottish names beat English names. Queen of the South, Hibernian,  Raith Rovers, Ferranti aka Meadowbank Thistle (why did they change to Livingston ? boring !), Gala Fairydean Rovers, Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic. Then you have the incredibly unquicky Albion Rovers. Based in Coatbridge and resulting from a merger of two teams, the boringly named Albion FC and yes you guessed it the equally boringly named Rovers FC.

Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on July 22, 2021, 04:15:57 PM
No he was right the first time.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 22, 2021, 05:08:07 PM
Dear Mr. Purslow,

Please DO NOT hire algy as the club's (brand) naming consultant.

Yours, BV
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 22, 2021, 09:22:53 PM
The name "Tottenham Hotspur" isn't bad, as names go, in that it isn't a boring "City" or "United" type team name. Comparing it to "Aston Villa", though, is quite clearly madness. We have the greatest name, the greatest colours, the greatest history and, quite possibly, the greatest collection of strays, wrong 'uns and ne'er-do-wells who like to spend their spare time arguing on a football forum.

Also, pretty sure that actual Hotspur was a Newcastle fan and would have thought, quite correctly, that Tottenham were a big bunch of southern ponces.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on July 22, 2021, 09:54:55 PM
Sir Henry (Hotspur) Percy was slain at the Battle of Shrewsbury in 1403.
 Shrewsbury Town and Tottenham Hotspur have never played a competitive game against each other.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on July 22, 2021, 10:02:49 PM
Next time I meet a Tottingham fan, I will tell them that they've never beaten Shrewsbury
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on July 23, 2021, 12:47:01 AM
Henry Hotspur sounds like a '70s porn star, and they have a cock and ball on their crest. Tottenham are rubbish in pretty much every single way.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 23, 2021, 12:54:00 AM
2nd best? Fuck me, I despair.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 23, 2021, 02:15:45 AM
The name "Tottenham Hotspur" isn't bad, as names go, in that it isn't a boring "City" or "United" type team name. Comparing it to "Aston Villa", though, is quite clearly madness. We have the greatest name, the greatest colours, the greatest history and, quite possibly, the greatest collection of strays, wrong 'uns and ne'er-do-wells who like to spend their spare time arguing on a football forum.

Also, pretty sure that actual Hotspur was a Newcastle fan and would have thought, quite correctly, that Tottenham were a big bunch of southern ponces.

I would be very disappointed if any football forum could rival this one for ne'er-do-wellism and pinko commie faggotry.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hillbilly on July 23, 2021, 06:40:25 AM
I'd say Spurs isn't even the best name in London. Crystal Palace, Orient, Arsenal, Queens Park Rangers.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on July 23, 2021, 07:21:01 AM
I'd say Spurs isn't even the best name in London. Crystal Palace, Orient, Arsenal, Queens Park Rangers.

Orient is best pronounced with a hard O rather than a soft OR, and always with an Alec Stock/Ron Manager accent.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 23, 2021, 07:28:01 AM
I'd say Spurs isn't even the best name in London. Crystal Palace, Orient, Arsenal, Queens Park Rangers.
Crowch End Vampires
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 23, 2021, 07:28:51 AM
2nd best? Fuck me, I despair.

There's some desperate stuff on the Internet.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: purpletrousers on July 23, 2021, 07:58:29 AM
I'd say Spurs isn't even the best name in London. Crystal Palace, Orient, Arsenal, Queens Park Rangers.

In my first year after studying, I worked in the Uni libraries, including the nursing ones, where I met a lovely Italian couple at one point. He was a massive fan of whoever was dominant back home at that point. London based, looking for a lesser team to engage with here he’d been enchanted (forgive the unintended fairy tale pun) by the name Crystal Palace and ended up getting seriously involved with doing the club as a foreign expert/voice etc.

But AV. Isn’t it lovely how that fits together. AV. Let’s hope my daughter AVT appreciates it in time, her first game coming up.

Algy, be referred to Johnny Dixon, Richard Whitehead, even (I’d forgotten) Harold Pinter.
https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2017/03/28/villa-flashback-the-name-aston-villa

The full Whitehead quote should be read though
Quote
There are loads of Uniteds, lots Citys and Towns, a goodly sprinkling of Wanderers and Rovers and even a few Albions. But there is only one Villa – the greatest name in football in every sense. John Gregory, our former manager, had an eye for the populist quote and never more so than when he said: “There’s an aura about this club, a sense of history and tradition. Even the name is beautifully symmetrical, with five letters in each word.” He’s right, too. Just try writing it down now in upper and lower case. Aston Villa – heartstoppingly lovely.

Back on topic, gratitude for the twists that nearly did for us, but brought us the real deal who seem to be so right for us in so many ways. Long may we develop & build in the right ways.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: CT on July 23, 2021, 08:04:18 AM
I watched the last part of the Bucks game yesterday and obviously Wes Edens was front and centre at the post match interviews.

This lad Giannis is the one the media just follow like a lost puppy. The cameras are on him all the time.

As a co-owner, we couldn’t ask for someone more experienced right now. Levy has caved in and sold Kane to City, I hope we’ll be a lot more resistant.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: purpletrousers on July 23, 2021, 08:15:23 AM
I just read the 1st page comments again & bejesus we have come a long way in such a short period of time.
NS & WE, I doff my cap to you both and long may our journey be linked.

Here here. Just read the first 8 pages, man have we been blessed with everything we’ve asked for. It can’t be said enough.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on July 23, 2021, 08:40:37 AM
Beautiful name, brilliant club.

I even love how we say 'The Villa'. From time to time, exiled in Bristol, I get asked about saying 'The' Villa when I say things like, "I'm not around on Saturday, I'm going to watch The Villa".

It's a perfect opportunity to remind them there are lots named United, City, Rovers, etc. but there is only one Villa.

It's a privilege that I was born and grew up 3-4 miles from Villa Park and that they are my club - as they are your club too. Up The Villa!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on July 23, 2021, 08:41:54 AM
Dear Mr. Purslow,

Please DO NOT hire algy as the club's (brand) naming consultant.

Yours, BV
Apologies all - I've let my family down, I've let our fine football club down, I've let this forum down, but most of all I've let myself down.


Mustn't spend so long out in the sun in future.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on July 23, 2021, 09:35:17 AM
If we were talking club nicknames,  yes, we are far behind.

My favourite being Morecambe, The Shrimps.

Worrabout Southend?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 23, 2021, 10:52:25 AM
Dear Mr. Purslow,

Please DO NOT hire algy as the club's (brand) naming consultant.

Yours, BV
Apologies all - I've let my family down, I've let our fine football club down, I've let this forum down, but most of all I've let myself down.


Mustn't spend so long out in the sun in future.

Welcome home. I hope you've learned a valuable lesson.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 23, 2021, 11:13:26 AM
Dear Mr. Purslow,

Please DO NOT hire algy as the club's (brand) naming consultant.

Yours, BV
Apologies all - I've let my family down, I've let our fine football club down, I've let this forum down, but most of all I've let myself down.


Mustn't spend so long out in the sun in future.

It's ok. Have a drink, take some time over the weekend and you'll be right as rain on Monday.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on July 23, 2021, 11:38:30 AM
Beautiful name, brilliant club.

I even love how we say 'The Villa'. From time to time, exiled in Bristol, I get asked about saying 'The' Villa when I say things like, "I'm not around on Saturday, I'm going to watch The Villa".

It's a perfect opportunity to remind them there are lots named United, City, Rovers, etc. but there is only one Villa.

It's a privilege that I was born and grew up 3-4 miles from Villa Park and that they are my club - as they are your club too. Up The Villa!
100%.  I always remeber my Grandad saying 'up the Villa,' every time we visited.  I had stickers with it on on the frame of my bed.  I love how UTV is still used so much - a phrase from a bygone era that still resonates with me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: purpletrousers on July 23, 2021, 11:56:43 AM
Beautiful name, brilliant club.

I even love how we say 'The Villa'. From time to time, exiled in Bristol, I get asked about saying 'The' Villa when I say things like, "I'm not around on Saturday, I'm going to watch The Villa".

It's a perfect opportunity to remind them there are lots named United, City, Rovers, etc. but there is only one Villa.

It's a privilege that I was born and grew up 3-4 miles from Villa Park and that they are my club - as they are your club too. Up The Villa!
100%.  I always remeber my Grandad saying 'up the Villa,' every time we visited.  I had stickers with it on on the frame of my bed.  I love how UTV is still used so much - a phrase from a bygone era that still resonates with me.

Yep, UTV was a response to a sneeze growing up in my household.

Continuing the reverie, I love that my grandma had a system to keep my grandad informed of the latest score as he worked on a Saturday afternoon in his opticians shop in Cotteridge, however many rings for a villa/opposition goal etc.

Grateful we had those glory years with him including our greatest day together 4 years before he died, likewise our best chance since now, to get back up there.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 23, 2021, 11:59:25 AM
Beautiful name, brilliant club.

I even love how we say 'The Villa'. From time to time, exiled in Bristol, I get asked about saying 'The' Villa when I say things like, "I'm not around on Saturday, I'm going to watch The Villa".

It's a perfect opportunity to remind them there are lots named United, City, Rovers, etc. but there is only one Villa.

It's a privilege that I was born and grew up 3-4 miles from Villa Park and that they are my club - as they are your club too. Up The Villa!
100%.  I always remeber my Grandad saying 'up the Villa,' every time we visited.  I had stickers with it on on the frame of my bed.  I love how UTV is still used so much - a phrase from a bygone era that still resonates with me.

I say it all the time when out and about when you see a young lad or girl in a Villa shirt. Always gets a smile and a reciprocated reply.  It sounds like   something you would see in a 1940s or 50s football comic and probably have but is still very relevant today and it's use should be encouraged.   
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on July 23, 2021, 12:07:42 PM
Beautiful name, brilliant club.

I even love how we say 'The Villa'. From time to time, exiled in Bristol, I get asked about saying 'The' Villa when I say things like, "I'm not around on Saturday, I'm going to watch The Villa".

It's a perfect opportunity to remind them there are lots named United, City, Rovers, etc. but there is only one Villa.

It's a privilege that I was born and grew up 3-4 miles from Villa Park and that they are my club - as they are your club too. Up The Villa!
100%.  I always remeber my Grandad saying 'up the Villa,' every time we visited.  I had stickers with it on on the frame of my bed.  I love how UTV is still used so much - a phrase from a bygone era that still resonates with me.

I say it all the time when out and about when you see a young lad or girl in a Villa shirt. Always gets a smile and a reciprocated reply.  It sounds like   something you would see in a 1940s or 50s football comic and probably have but is still very relevant today and it's use should be encouraged.   
UTV.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on July 23, 2021, 12:18:38 PM
Beautiful name, brilliant club.

I even love how we say 'The Villa'. From time to time, exiled in Bristol, I get asked about saying 'The' Villa when I say things like, "I'm not around on Saturday, I'm going to watch The Villa".

It's a perfect opportunity to remind them there are lots named United, City, Rovers, etc. but there is only one Villa.

It's a privilege that I was born and grew up 3-4 miles from Villa Park and that they are my club - as they are your club too. Up The Villa!
100%.  I always remeber my Grandad saying 'up the Villa,' every time we visited.  I had stickers with it on on the frame of my bed.  I love how UTV is still used so much - a phrase from a bygone era that still resonates with me.

I say it all the time when out and about when you see a young lad or girl in a Villa shirt. Always gets a smile and a reciprocated reply.  It sounds like   something you would see in a 1940s or 50s football comic and probably have but is still very relevant today and it's use should be encouraged.   

I do the same. Wherever and whenever, the presence of another enlightened soul should always be acknowledged with it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OzVilla on July 23, 2021, 12:20:08 PM
Dear Mr. Purslow,

Please DO NOT hire algy as the club's (brand) naming consultant.

Yours, BV
Apologies all - I've let my family down, I've let our fine football club down, I've let this forum down, but most of all I've let myself down.


We’re not angry with you, just disappointed.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 23, 2021, 12:22:29 PM
Beautiful name, brilliant club.

I even love how we say 'The Villa'. From time to time, exiled in Bristol, I get asked about saying 'The' Villa when I say things like, "I'm not around on Saturday, I'm going to watch The Villa".

It's a perfect opportunity to remind them there are lots named United, City, Rovers, etc. but there is only one Villa.

It's a privilege that I was born and grew up 3-4 miles from Villa Park and that they are my club - as they are your club too. Up The Villa!
100%.  I always remeber my Grandad saying 'up the Villa,' every time we visited.  I had stickers with it on on the frame of my bed.  I love how UTV is still used so much - a phrase from a bygone era that still resonates with me.

I say it all the time when out and about when you see a young lad or girl in a Villa shirt. Always gets a smile and a reciprocated reply.  It sounds like   something you would see in a 1940s or 50s football comic and probably have but is still very relevant today and it's use should be encouraged.   

I do the same. Wherever and whenever, the presence of another enlightened soul should always be acknowledged with it.

And me, although I get fewer chances to do so than most of us, peripatetic twat that I am.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Richard E on July 23, 2021, 12:29:27 PM
We don't think you're peripatetic, mate.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 23, 2021, 12:58:43 PM
Ha! Thanks Richard.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 23, 2021, 01:09:58 PM
Algy consider yourself admonished. One of those stand in the corner of the room, turn your head to the wall and don’t fight the dunce cap moments in your life. You’ll be better for it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 23, 2021, 01:17:11 PM
Beautiful name, brilliant club.

I even love how we say 'The Villa'. From time to time, exiled in Bristol, I get asked about saying 'The' Villa when I say things like, "I'm not around on Saturday, I'm going to watch The Villa".

It's a perfect opportunity to remind them there are lots named United, City, Rovers, etc. but there is only one Villa.

It's a privilege that I was born and grew up 3-4 miles from Villa Park and that they are my club - as they are your club too. Up The Villa!
100%.  I always remeber my Grandad saying 'up the Villa,' every time we visited.  I had stickers with it on on the frame of my bed.  I love how UTV is still used so much - a phrase from a bygone era that still resonates with me.

Yep, UTV was a response to a sneeze growing up in my household.

Continuing the reverie, I love that my grandma had a system to keep my grandad informed of the latest score as he worked on a Saturday afternoon in his opticians shop in Cotteridge, however many rings for a villa/opposition goal etc.

Grateful we had those glory years with him including our greatest day together 4 years before he died, likewise our best chance since now, to get back up there.

My grandad died around the same time yours did by the sound of it Satyin. He lived with my nan in Mere Green. My earliest 'Up the Villa" memory was my nan going to her friend Auntie Pauline's house to have her hair cut, and they had a grey parrot that had been taught to say "Up the Villa" repeatedly. My Grandad would have been alive for (if not old enough to remember) 6 of our 7 league titles, and 6 of our 7 FA Cups.  Only three League Cups though, so swings and roundabouts!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 23, 2021, 01:18:41 PM

I do the same. Wherever and whenever, the presence of another enlightened soul should always be acknowledged with it.

Same. It's just about a legal requirement isn't it? Our version of the masons' funny handshake.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 23, 2021, 01:46:47 PM
Me too. I do get the occasional odd look and faintly mumbled reply. Probably because Villans in Sheffield don't figure on seeing many others.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on July 23, 2021, 02:48:11 PM
Beautiful name, brilliant club.

I even love how we say 'The Villa'. From time to time, exiled in Bristol, I get asked about saying 'The' Villa when I say things like, "I'm not around on Saturday, I'm going to watch The Villa".

It's a perfect opportunity to remind them there are lots named United, City, Rovers, etc. but there is only one Villa.

It's a privilege that I was born and grew up 3-4 miles from Villa Park and that they are my club - as they are your club too. Up The Villa!
100%.  I always remeber my Grandad saying 'up the Villa,' every time we visited.  I had stickers with it on on the frame of my bed.  I love how UTV is still used so much - a phrase from a bygone era that still resonates with me.

Yep, UTV was a response to a sneeze growing up in my household.

Continuing the reverie, I love that my grandma had a system to keep my grandad informed of the latest score as he worked on a Saturday afternoon in his opticians shop in Cotteridge, however many rings for a villa/opposition goal etc.

Grateful we had those glory years with him including our greatest day together 4 years before he died, likewise our best chance since now, to get back up there.

My grandad died around the same time yours did by the sound of it Satyin. He lived with my nan in Mere Green. My earliest 'Up the Villa" memory was my nan going to her friend Auntie Pauline's house to have her hair cut, and they had a grey parrot that had been taught to say "Up the Villa" repeatedly. My Grandad would have been alive for (if not old enough to remember) 6 of our 7 league titles, and 6 of our 7 FA Cups.  Only three League Cups though, so swings and roundabouts!
Your mention of a parrot saying 'Up The Villa' reminded me of something I'd long forget. When I was a kid, maybe 6 or 7, I would get dragged by my Mom to visit her Aunty Bella in some high rise in the centre of Brum.

The only saving grace was the old lady repeatedly telling me that her parrot used to say 'Up The Villa'. Sadly the parrot died before we started going - though that is not a prompt for a Python sketch.

I'm not massively well travelled though I have greeted or been greeted by enlightened souls saying 'Up The Villa' in New Zealand, New York, Jamaica and lots of other countries.

Though the last time was six months ago when a little old lady in Downend Bristol said it to me because I was wearing a Villa top. She added, in a Brummie accent, "But for this bloody Covid, I would hug you bab!"

Never met her before or since, but by strange coincidence, I suddenly got some dust in my eye.

Up The Villa.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: thick_mike on July 23, 2021, 05:04:25 PM
I shared an UTV with someone in Iceland (the shop, not the country) in Leighton Buzzard this week.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 23, 2021, 05:47:51 PM
I was more impressed before the first bracket turned up. Still, I suppose I should have read the bit in brackets first as that's the rule.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 23, 2021, 07:33:40 PM
Article on Football Insider (Bullshitter) by Kelvin Maguire who's a football finance specialist.

That says something like... NSWE celebrating their Three Year Anniversary after the takeover in 2019...

Honestly.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dante Lavelli on July 23, 2021, 08:04:28 PM
It’d be cool if the Villa Village stocked some Bucks gear (and visa versa).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: four fornicholl on July 23, 2021, 08:28:02 PM
Millionaire David Bradley of Selby Villa anyone?!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on July 23, 2021, 08:32:26 PM
It’d be cool if the Villa Village stocked some Bucks gear (and visa versa).

Interesting idea! Everyone wants to be associated with a winner. A casual sports fan goes into a Sports Direct store in London wanting to pick-up a Grealish Villa shirt and a Bucks vest only to be told that both items have long since sold-out.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 23, 2021, 09:00:50 PM
It’d be cool if the Villa Village stocked some Bucks gear (and visa versa).

I remember this conversation about the Browns.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 23, 2021, 09:03:57 PM
But they were rubbish.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 23, 2021, 10:02:52 PM
It’d be cool if the Villa Village stocked some Bucks gear (and visa versa).

I remember this conversation about the Browns.

So do I, let's just stock Schlitz beer instead.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on July 24, 2021, 12:01:50 AM
The Browns always sucked. The Bucks are winners.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 24, 2021, 12:39:48 AM
Is this a Man U forum, now?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 30, 2021, 01:00:13 PM
First proper test of our owners.

Make us proud.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hairbandinho on July 30, 2021, 01:07:39 PM
Can't wait for the slagging off they will get when Grealish inevitably goes, against their wishes.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan82 on July 30, 2021, 01:09:33 PM
Let's be clear. If Jack goes I will not blame these owners, who have saved our club. The blame will 100% lie with Jack and his agent- leaving us as we start to motor will leave a very sour taste with me and place him beyond the pale with the others who dicked us around.

If I'm honest, I already don't care so much for Jack for disrupting the pre-season of his 'boyhood club' by allowing this shite rumble all summer.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TelfordVilla on July 30, 2021, 01:17:52 PM
Let's be clear. If Jack goes I will not blame these owners, who have saved our club. The blame will 100% lie with Jack and his agent- leaving us as we start to motor will leave a very sour taste with me and place him beyond the pale with the others who dicked us around.

If I'm honest, I already don't care so much for Jack for disrupting the pre-season of his 'boyhood club' by allowing this shite rumble all summer.
what a load of nonsense. If a bunch of numpties on this site and elsewhere want to spend all summer wasting their time and energy speculating about something that doesnt exist, that has nothing to do with Jack or NSWE
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Shrek on July 30, 2021, 01:25:09 PM
Leaving a week before the season starts would be poor form from Jack.

This could have been sorted straight after the Euros either way.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Keeno on July 30, 2021, 01:28:19 PM
Let's be clear. If Jack goes I will not blame these owners, who have saved our club. The blame will 100% lie with Jack and his agent- leaving us as we start to motor will leave a very sour taste with me and place him beyond the pale with the others who dicked us around.

If I'm honest, I already don't care so much for Jack for disrupting the pre-season of his 'boyhood club' by allowing this shite rumble all summer.
what a load of nonsense. If a bunch of numpties on this site and elsewhere want to spend all summer wasting their time and energy speculating about something that doesnt exist, that has nothing to do with Jack or NSWE

Yeah exactly. Given the comical nature of transfer sagas these days, the fact that this one looks like it'll be done and dusted by mid-next week is actually good for all parties.

Grealish had been at a major international tournament then taking a well-earned break. He's hardly been fanning the flames or had his agent in the press. The entire of this ordeal has existed almost totally in the media and/or on Twitter. Loads of noise.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on July 30, 2021, 02:10:24 PM
Interesting times for our owners. Their plans and vision for the club moving forwards is going to come sharply into focus.
Grealish's past injuries must be a concern for them. If he was to stay and ended up missing another third of a season (whilst being a year older) his stock would be at risk of diminishing. Do they stick or twist?
I feel I will know a lot more about the owners and their "project" based on what happens in the next week or so in terms of outgoings and incomings.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: saunders_heroes on July 30, 2021, 02:50:29 PM
If he does leave, the timing couldn’t be any worse. 2 weeks before the season starts and we lose our best player. Fuckin joke.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mike on July 30, 2021, 02:53:20 PM
Let's be clear. If Jack goes I will not blame these owners, who have saved our club. The blame will 100% lie with Jack and his agent- leaving us as we start to motor will leave a very sour taste with me and place him beyond the pale with the others who dicked us around.

If I'm honest, I already don't care so much for Jack for disrupting the pre-season of his 'boyhood club' by allowing this shite rumble all summer.

I will completely blame the owners. They can say no every bit as much as Levy can.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 30, 2021, 02:55:04 PM
Let's be clear. If Jack goes I will not blame these owners, who have saved our club. The blame will 100% lie with Jack and his agent- leaving us as we start to motor will leave a very sour taste with me and place him beyond the pale with the others who dicked us around.

If I'm honest, I already don't care so much for Jack for disrupting the pre-season of his 'boyhood club' by allowing this shite rumble all summer.

I will completely blame the owners. They can say no every bit as much as Levy can.

Give them a chance to say no. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on July 30, 2021, 02:58:53 PM
If we are intending to tell them to do one, it's sort of in our interests to keep them dangling a bit before telling them. It's only their plans we'd be fucking up, not ours.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 30, 2021, 03:13:24 PM
Grealish had been at a major international tournament then taking a well-earned break. He's hardly been fanning the flames or had his agent in the press. The entire of this ordeal has existed almost totally in the media and/or on Twitter. Loads of noise.

His agent has undoubtedly been behind most of the noise. Off the record, yes but feeding the fire, absolutely.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mike on July 30, 2021, 03:32:51 PM
Let's be clear. If Jack goes I will not blame these owners, who have saved our club. The blame will 100% lie with Jack and his agent- leaving us as we start to motor will leave a very sour taste with me and place him beyond the pale with the others who dicked us around.

If I'm honest, I already don't care so much for Jack for disrupting the pre-season of his 'boyhood club' by allowing this shite rumble all summer.

I will completely blame the owners. They can say no every bit as much as Levy can.

Give them a chance to say no. 

There was an implied 'if they sell'. I've gone from sure sure they wouldn't and I'm still not sure they will.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan82 on July 30, 2021, 03:58:10 PM
Let's be clear. If Jack goes I will not blame these owners, who have saved our club. The blame will 100% lie with Jack and his agent- leaving us as we start to motor will leave a very sour taste with me and place him beyond the pale with the others who dicked us around.

If I'm honest, I already don't care so much for Jack for disrupting the pre-season of his 'boyhood club' by allowing this shite rumble all summer.

I will completely blame the owners. They can say no every bit as much as Levy can.

They kept him when we were in the championship and Spurs wanted him. If they sell it is because he is agitating for it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mike on July 30, 2021, 04:00:58 PM
Let's be clear. If Jack goes I will not blame these owners, who have saved our club. The blame will 100% lie with Jack and his agent- leaving us as we start to motor will leave a very sour taste with me and place him beyond the pale with the others who dicked us around.

If I'm honest, I already don't care so much for Jack for disrupting the pre-season of his 'boyhood club' by allowing this shite rumble all summer.

I will completely blame the owners. They can say no every bit as much as Levy can.

They kept him when we were in the championship and Spurs wanted him. If they sell it is because he is agitating for it.

Yes, like Kane is agitating but isn't getting sold, which is why I mentioned Levy.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 30, 2021, 04:28:33 PM
No one will come out of this well if he goes.
The owners can pretty much end this now, they can say " under no circumstances will we be selling the player this window"
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: DB on July 30, 2021, 04:30:12 PM
Just waiting for a statement that Villa have rejected the offer...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: jwarry on July 30, 2021, 04:33:08 PM
I can’t remember exactly how much NSWE paid for the club but I suspect it was less than £100m which is just bizarre
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy65 on July 30, 2021, 04:38:12 PM
Let's be clear. If Jack goes I will not blame these owners, who have saved our club. The blame will 100% lie with Jack and his agent- leaving us as we start to motor will leave a very sour taste with me and place him beyond the pale with the others who dicked us around.

If I'm honest, I already don't care so much for Jack for disrupting the pre-season of his 'boyhood club' by allowing this shite rumble all summer.

I will completely blame the owners. They can say no every bit as much as Levy can.

They kept him when we were in the championship and Spurs wanted him. If they sell it is because he is agitating for it.

Yes, like Kane is agitating but isn't getting sold, which is why I mentioned Levy.

Kane will go imo. Levy just negotiating hard
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 30, 2021, 04:44:49 PM
Before we jump on the owners too much. Let’s not forget Jack would have been gone for peanuts 3 years ago and we’d have been in a terrible state had they not come in.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Goldenballs on July 30, 2021, 04:52:02 PM
If City sign Jack for £100m, then I honestly can't see them signing Kane. Spurs would instantly want more than that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 30, 2021, 04:52:18 PM
Before we jump on the owners too much. Let’s not forget Jack would have been gone for peanuts 3 years ago and we’d have been in a terrible state had they not come in.

Well said 👏👏
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: jwarry on July 30, 2021, 04:53:46 PM
Before we jump on the owners too much. Let’s not forget Jack would have been gone for peanuts 3 years ago and we’d have been in a terrible state had they not come in.

Well said 👏👏

And what’s more bizarre is we would have laid down and accepted it to save the club we love - Bellinghamlike
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: clash city rocker on July 30, 2021, 05:08:31 PM
Without these owners we were buggered
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: luke95 on July 30, 2021, 05:22:39 PM
Let's be clear. If Jack goes I will not blame these owners, who have saved our club. The blame will 100% lie with Jack and his agent- leaving us as we start to motor will leave a very sour taste with me and place him beyond the pale with the others who dicked us around.

If I'm honest, I already don't care so much for Jack for disrupting the pre-season of his 'boyhood club' by allowing this shite rumble all summer.

I will completely blame the owners. They can say no every bit as much as Levy can.
Just as much as Jack can say "I'm staying,  I signed an improved contract only this time last year & intend to honour it "
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 30, 2021, 05:50:12 PM
There’s nothing to “blame” them for yet.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on July 30, 2021, 05:55:48 PM
If he does leave, the timing couldn’t be any worse. 2 weeks before the season starts and we lose our best player. Fuckin joke.

Well, O'Neill walked out days before the beginning of the 2010/11 season and look how wonderful the rest of that decade turned-out for us...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 30, 2021, 06:04:54 PM
If he does leave, the timing couldn’t be any worse. 2 weeks before the season starts and we lose our best player. Fuckin joke.

Wouldn't one week before the season starts be worse? How about the day the season starts? Or the last day of the transfer window just as we had all assumed he was staying and were about to have something nice for tea?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on July 30, 2021, 06:05:59 PM
If he does leave, the timing couldn’t be any worse. 2 weeks before the season starts and we lose our best player. Fuckin joke.
Well, O'Neill walked out days before the beginning of the 2010/11 season and look how wonderful the rest of that decade turned-out for us...
True, but MON was a total cnut.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 30, 2021, 06:48:00 PM
If he does leave, the timing couldn’t be any worse. 2 weeks before the season starts and we lose our best player. Fuckin joke.
Well, O'Neill walked out days before the beginning of the 2010/11 season and look how wonderful the rest of that decade turned-out for us...
True, but MON was a total cnut.
a thunder-cnut
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robleflaneur on July 30, 2021, 09:28:21 PM
If he does leave, the timing couldn’t be any worse. 2 weeks before the season starts and we lose our best player. Fuckin joke.

Well, O'Neill walked out days before the beginning of the 2010/11 season and look how wonderful the rest of that decade turned-out for us...
More a case of Lerner refusing to invest which would have kept the club progressing and would have brought in its own financial rewards.Shades of Ellis post 84 and even further back the late fifties and the whole of the sixties.
What I see with this group  is a clear plan  of buying players who can develop .Someday,I presume,the outlay on players will have to become reasonable.If you are in the Champions League,reasonable is a helluva lot of money.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 31, 2021, 01:16:16 AM
Guess we aren't another Chelsea or Man City looking to break the mould. That's a real shame. They have been and they are top owners. But the dream is a little dead right now and its very hard to buy into the project of European football.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OzVilla on July 31, 2021, 01:36:52 AM
I think that’s an over reaction. It’s be a step back no doubt and we obviously don’t want to sell but it may be that the owners feel that if he wants out plus the FFP freedom that selling a homegrown talent for £100 million could offer us spend wise in the next 2/3 years is another way we can kick on.

It won’t be the end of our progression and we’ll just need to trust them to have plans in place which I do.

I still hope he’ll stay but if he doesn’t I’ve never trusted owners more to capitalise on the hand they’ve been dealt.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on July 31, 2021, 06:12:30 AM
Of course our current owners have been brilliant to date, but they now have an important decision to make. Are we a selling club who may or may not make statement signings OR are we a club that retains its best talent whilst bringing in statement signings? Their answer will show how serious they are about their project/vision for Aston Villa.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on July 31, 2021, 07:18:30 AM
Of course our current owners have been brilliant to date, but they now have an important decision to make. Are we a selling club who may or may not make statement signings OR are we a club that retains its best talent whilst bringing in statement signings? Their answer will show how serious they are about their project/vision for Aston Villa.

Very good point which I am sure is not lost on them. Lets be fair everything to date they and Purslow have said and done has been top drawer so let's just see how they play this. I'm sure they have a clear plan on how to address city and any other issue that arises
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nunkin1965 on July 31, 2021, 08:16:53 AM
Of course our current owners have been brilliant to date, but they now have an important decision to make. Are we a selling club who may or may not make statement signings OR are we a club that retains its best talent whilst bringing in statement signings? Their answer will show how serious they are about their project/vision for Aston Villa.

Very good point which I am sure is not lost on them. Lets be fair everything to date they and Purslow have said and done has been top drawer so let's just see how they play this. I'm sure they have a clear plan on how to address city and any other issue that arises

Agree.
I gave the owners stick last night/this morning but I've calmed down a little now.
They've done remarkable things for us so far and they will have a plan to implement one way or another.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on July 31, 2021, 08:19:56 AM
I have absolute full faith that these owners will be doing everything they can to deliver the right outcome for Aston Villa, and I think most people here will agree with me. I honestly don’t think we could be in better hands right now. Up the Villa.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nunkin1965 on July 31, 2021, 08:26:04 AM
I have absolute full faith that these owners will be doing everything they can to deliver the right outcome for Aston Villa, and I think most people here will agree with me. I honestly don’t think we could be in better hands right now. Up the Villa.
You're right.
I'm happy enough to be the first to apologise and thank them for what they've done for our fine club so far.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 31, 2021, 08:49:51 AM
Guess we aren't another Chelsea or Man City looking to break the mould. That's a real shame. They have been and they are top owners. But the dream is a little dead right now and its very hard to buy into the project of European football.

Agree with this if Jack goes. Chelsea and Citeh bought other clubs' best players, we're selling ours.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Smith on July 31, 2021, 08:59:13 AM
I have absolute full faith that these owners will be doing everything they can to deliver the right outcome for Aston Villa, and I think most people here will agree with me. I honestly don’t think we could be in better hands right now. Up the Villa.

I agree but if Grealish is sold this will be their biggest test. It will make their job of selling the ambition of the club to new players a little more difficult.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 31, 2021, 09:21:49 AM
I have absolute full faith that these owners will be doing everything they can to deliver the right outcome for Aston Villa, and I think most people here will agree with me. I honestly don’t think we could be in better hands right now. Up the Villa.

I agree but if Grealish is sold this will be their biggest test. It will make their job of selling the ambition of the club to new players a little more difficult.
a little ? I would suggest an awful lot and it’s not just new players I would worry about.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 31, 2021, 09:29:05 AM
Every dynasty has to start somewhere, and none get everything they want all the time. We will always be more than any player, though I'd always hoped he'd stay and be a part of it.

Interestingly when I told my son what's happening he asked me if I'd still support the Villa and I told him of course, you never change your team. He smiled which made me happy.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on July 31, 2021, 09:32:09 AM
Guess we aren't another Chelsea or Man City looking to break the mould. That's a real shame. They have been and they are top owners. But the dream is a little dead right now and its very hard to buy into the project of European football.

FFP was introduced specifically to stop another Chelsea or Man City. Our owners are easily wealthy enough, but the rules of the game stop them buying success. So if selling one player for £100m means the whole squash improves then that's the game we've got to play.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Goldenballs on July 31, 2021, 09:35:20 AM
I have absolute full faith that these owners will be doing everything they can to deliver the right outcome for Aston Villa, and I think most people here will agree with me. I honestly don’t think we could be in better hands right now. Up the Villa.

I agree but if Grealish is sold this will be their biggest test. It will make their job of selling the ambition of the club to new players a little more difficult.
a little ? I would suggest an awful lot and it’s not just new players I would worry about.

Yeah exactly. Say Man Utd come in for Konsa next summer for example, what's he going to be thinking.

Any new big ish players from Europe would see us a good platform to show their ability in the top league to impress the 'big' teams.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on July 31, 2021, 09:40:46 AM
I have absolute full faith that these owners will be doing everything they can to deliver the right outcome for Aston Villa, and I think most people here will agree with me. I honestly don’t think we could be in better hands right now. Up the Villa.

I agree but if Grealish is sold this will be their biggest test. It will make their job of selling the ambition of the club to new players a little more difficult.
a little ? I would suggest an awful lot and it’s not just new players I would worry about.

Yeah exactly. Say Man Utd come in for Konsa next summer for example, what's he going to be thinking.

Any new big ish players from Europe would see us a good platform to show their ability in the top league to impress the 'big' teams.

If the "big" clubs want our players every summer then we must be doing something right.

Every player is different and every player has their price. If Man Utd offered us £100m for Konsa next summer I'd drive him to Old Trafford myself!

As long as every year we progress, and that sometimes means cashing in on players at their peak value, then that's the main thing.

And if Europe's brightest and best want to come to the Villa because they know it'll benefit their career in the long run them what's the problem? It hasn't done Dortmund any harm and they've just sold one of their best players too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ian. on July 31, 2021, 09:46:00 AM
Absolutely Adam. I’ve seen quite a lot of criticism of Chelsea and Man City for buying their trophies, but if we can’t buy so and so we’re never going to catch them. It’s a bit of a hypocritical way of thinking. If we’re building from the bottom each year and adding quality where we can why can’t we still achieve success? Leicester haven’t done too badly with this method have they.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Scott Nielsen on July 31, 2021, 09:54:58 AM
If the "big" clubs want our players every summer then we must be doing something right.

Every player is different and every player has their price. If Man Utd offered us £100m for Konsa next summer I'd drive him to Old Trafford myself!

As long as every year we progress, and that sometimes means cashing in on players at their peak value, then that's the main thing.

And if Europe's brightest and best want to come to the Villa because they know it'll benefit their career in the long run them what's the problem? It hasn't done Dortmund any harm and they've just sold one of their best players too.

I appreciate the argument you make but Dortmund are about as likely to win Bundesliga as we are winning the PL. That's because they keep selling their best players. Best case for us is we become another Leicester but I think very, very difficult to repeat their sustained success in the transfer market.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 31, 2021, 10:02:24 AM
I can sense a bit of criticism creeping in of the owners and I just don't get it. We've gone from being on the verge of selling Jack for next to nothing to thinking nothing of spending £30m on a player. Let's just see how this pans out because let's face it, they've been nothing but superb since they've been here.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 31, 2021, 10:07:39 AM
no point in criticising the owners - everything has a price....

Let's see what the owners do once Jack's gone - that'll be the point to consider criticism; if they get that wrong. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on July 31, 2021, 10:08:13 AM
... What I see with this group  is a clear plan  of buying players who can develop. Someday, I presume the outlay on players will have to become reasonable...
"Someday" will be the point when the investment we're currently making in U23 players starts to pay out with those players either being successful in our first team or being sold for good amounts.
Between now and then, we obviously need to continue to improve with the right players being brought in: the next 10 days will reveal to us how successful our purchasing is.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 31, 2021, 10:19:11 AM
I can sense a bit of criticism creeping in of the owners and I just don't get it. We've gone from being on the verge of selling Jack for next to nothing to thinking nothing of spending £30m on a player. Let's just see how this pans out because let's face it, they've been nothing but superb since they've been here.

That's the way I see it.

They've managed to keep him for a few years, against the odds.

I think it's highly likely that he had a agreement in place to leave, if a big bid came in, that interested him.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on July 31, 2021, 10:24:11 AM
If the "big" clubs want our players every summer then we must be doing something right.

Every player is different and every player has their price. If Man Utd offered us £100m for Konsa next summer I'd drive him to Old Trafford myself!

As long as every year we progress, and that sometimes means cashing in on players at their peak value, then that's the main thing.

And if Europe's brightest and best want to come to the Villa because they know it'll benefit their career in the long run them what's the problem? It hasn't done Dortmund any harm and they've just sold one of their best players too.

I appreciate the argument you make but Dortmund are about as likely to win Bundesliga as we are winning the PL. That's because they keep selling their best players. Best case for us is we become another Leicester but I think very, very difficult to repeat their sustained success in the transfer market.

In the last decade Dortmund have won the league twice, the German FA Cup once, have finished in the top 4 in all but one of those seasons and played European football every season - almost all of those in the Champions League. On top of that they've got a tremendous stadium and are seen as the place to be if you're one of Europe's best young players.

If the Villa can replicate that, I'll take it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: simboy on July 31, 2021, 10:24:59 AM
I can sense a bit of criticism creeping in of the owners and I just don't get it. We've gone from being on the verge of selling Jack for next to nothing to thinking nothing of spending £30m on a player. Let's just see how this pans out because let's face it, they've been nothing but superb since they've been here.


Exactly. If the paper talk is correct they have offered Grealish £200k a week (or £10.4 million a year), which is supposedly what he will get if he signs for citeh. The ball is firmly in the grealish camp. His agent and family will advise him but I cannot see what more NSWE can realistically do.

If Grealish leaves, let be clear, it’s not for the want of NSWE trying to keep him.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 31, 2021, 10:25:32 AM
no point in criticising the owners - everything has a price....

Let's see what the owners do once Jack's gone - that'll be the point to consider criticism; if they get that wrong. 
No not for me. We thought this lot were different but they are not. This all sounds like the horrible Yorke, Young, Milner track. If they were different this the time and place to stand up and say NO. This is anopther set of businessmen who treat the club as a business nothing more.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: charleeco7 on July 31, 2021, 10:27:17 AM
I can sense a bit of criticism creeping in of the owners and I just don't get it. We've gone from being on the verge of selling Jack for next to nothing to thinking nothing of spending £30m on a player. Let's just see how this pans out because let's face it, they've been nothing but superb since they've been here.


Exactly. If the paper talk is correct they have offered Grealish £200k a week (or £10.4 million a year), which is supposedly what he will get if he signs for citeh. The ball is firmly in the grealish camp. His agent and family will advise him but I cannot see what more NSWE can realistically do.

If Grealish leaves, let be clear, it’s not for the want of NSWE trying to keep him.

This.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2021, 10:29:41 AM
As I said last night these owners have done more than enough to deserve some latitude. Jack would have been gone years ago for peanuts and we’d have been in financial ruin were it not for them. How about don’t turn on them the first time something happens we don’t like? We have no idea of the circumstances around this.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ian. on July 31, 2021, 10:30:39 AM
I can sense a bit of criticism creeping in of the owners and I just don't get it. We've gone from being on the verge of selling Jack for next to nothing to thinking nothing of spending £30m on a player. Let's just see how this pans out because let's face it, they've been nothing but superb since they've been here.


Exactly. If the paper talk is correct they have offered Grealish £200k a week (or £10.4 million a year), which is supposedly what he will get if he signs for citeh. The ball is firmly in the grealish camp. His agent and family will advise him but I cannot see what more NSWE can realistically do.

If Grealish leaves, let be clear, it’s not for the want of NSWE trying to keep him.

This.

Also adding this supposed release clause which would have happened last year. How can this be blamed at the owners. I would imagine the agent would have insisted on this. Isn’t the clause very similar to a pre-nuptial if you are marrying into wealth? It’s to protect what’s around the next corner.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on July 31, 2021, 10:35:13 AM
no point in criticising the owners - everything has a price....

Let's see what the owners do once Jack's gone - that'll be the point to consider criticism; if they get that wrong. 
No not for me. We thought this lot were different but they are not. This all sounds like the horrible Yorke, Young, Milner track. If they were different this the time and place to stand up and say NO. This is anopther set of businessmen who treat the club as a business nothing more.

Come off it! They won't see a penny of this money. If we sell it will be because Jack wants to leave, there's no point keeping a player who wants out, and the funds will be reinvested in the squad.

Claiming they are no different to the likes of Ellis is just nonsense.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 31, 2021, 10:42:47 AM
Guess we aren't another Chelsea or Man City looking to break the mould. That's a real shame. They have been and they are top owners. But the dream is a little dead right now and its very hard to buy into the project of European football.

FFP was introduced specifically to stop another Chelsea or Man City. Our owners are easily wealthy enough, but the rules of the game stop them buying success. So if selling one player for £100m means the whole squash improves then that's the game we've got to play.

Man City have spent £918m since Pep took over, now they're signing Rat. What's compliment about that?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Scott Nielsen on July 31, 2021, 10:43:54 AM
If the "big" clubs want our players every summer then we must be doing something right.

Every player is different and every player has their price. If Man Utd offered us £100m for Konsa next summer I'd drive him to Old Trafford myself!

As long as every year we progress, and that sometimes means cashing in on players at their peak value, then that's the main thing.

And if Europe's brightest and best want to come to the Villa because they know it'll benefit their career in the long run them what's the problem? It hasn't done Dortmund any harm and they've just sold one of their best players too.

I appreciate the argument you make but Dortmund are about as likely to win Bundesliga as we are winning the PL. That's because they keep selling their best players. Best case for us is we become another Leicester but I think very, very difficult to repeat their sustained success in the transfer market.

In the last decade Dortmund have won the league twice, the German FA Cup once, have finished in the top 4 in all but one of those seasons and played European football every season - almost all of those in the Champions League. On top of that they've got a tremendous stadium and are seen as the place to be if you're one of Europe's best young players.

If the Villa can replicate that, I'll take it.

That is true. It is also true Bayern Munchen has now won the league nine times in a row. Buying Lewandowski, Gotze and Hummels, Dortmund's best players, were a big reason for that. I don't want us to just become a feeder club to the top 4 in England.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kipeye on July 31, 2021, 10:45:57 AM
As I said last night these owners have done more than enough to deserve some latitude. Jack would have been gone years ago for peanuts and we’d have been in financial ruin were it not for them. How about don’t turn on them the first time something happens we don’t like? We have no idea of the circumstances around this.
I think this is putting it mildly. Both owners and player have done so much for this club in a very short time. Jack deserves his move-if he wants it, and the owners have kept him loyal (and well paid) through some very difficult years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Goldenballs on July 31, 2021, 10:46:30 AM
I have absolute full faith that these owners will be doing everything they can to deliver the right outcome for Aston Villa, and I think most people here will agree with me. I honestly don’t think we could be in better hands right now. Up the Villa.

I agree but if Grealish is sold this will be their biggest test. It will make their job of selling the ambition of the club to new players a little more difficult.
a little ? I would suggest an awful lot and it’s not just new players I would worry about.

Yeah exactly. Say Man Utd come in for Konsa next summer for example, what's he going to be thinking.

Any new big ish players from Europe would see us a good platform to show their ability in the top league to impress the 'big' teams.

If the "big" clubs want our players every summer then we must be doing something right.

Every player is different and every player has their price. If Man Utd offered us £100m for Konsa next summer I'd drive him to Old Trafford myself!

As long as every year we progress, and that sometimes means cashing in on players at their peak value, then that's the main thing.

And if Europe's brightest and best want to come to the Villa because they know it'll benefit their career in the long run them what's the problem? It hasn't done Dortmund any harm and they've just sold one of their best players too.

I don't want to be Villa to be a stepping stone though, with oil money clubs taking our players as and when they feel like it.

In an ideal world we would progress each year selling players as the top value with another cheapo player ready to step up, but it very rarely works out like that, although Leicester are doing very well in that regard.

Dortmund are already a massive Clun who can offer champions league football and be in with a fairly competitive shot at a trophy most seasons. There're too many teams ahead of us for us to realistically do the same, especially if we are used as stepping stones to strengthen the already stronger teams above us.

A lot of 'what ifs' in that gibberish, but you get the general idea.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on July 31, 2021, 10:52:43 AM
As I said last night these owners have done more than enough to deserve some latitude. Jack would have been gone years ago for peanuts and we’d have been in financial ruin were it not for them. How about don’t turn on them the first time something happens we don’t like? We have no idea of the circumstances around this.
I think this is putting it mildly. Both owners and player have done so much for this club in a very short time. Jack deserves his move-if he wants it, and the owners have kept him loyal (and well paid) through some very difficult years.
If he was looking to move, he shouldn’t have signed a 5 year deal less than a year ago and given it the ‘my club’ bullshit.
Every bit as snakey as the snake.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kipeye on July 31, 2021, 10:55:13 AM
For me the feeder club is missing the point: We are just a couple of seasons off (and we can afford to buy our way there) establishing ourselves in Europe. Once we do, we will be able to keep our very best. Shame in some ways, because I hate the whole concept of European leagues as they are at the moment. But, there it is.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kipeye on July 31, 2021, 10:56:09 AM
As I said last night these owners have done more than enough to deserve some latitude. Jack would have been gone years ago for peanuts and we’d have been in financial ruin were it not for them. How about don’t turn on them the first time something happens we don’t like? We have no idea of the circumstances around this.
I think this is putting it mildly. Both owners and player have done so much for this club in a very short time. Jack deserves his move-if he wants it, and the owners have kept him loyal (and well paid) through some very difficult years.
If he was looking to move, he shouldn’t have signed a 5 year deal less than a year ago and given it the ‘my club’ bullshit.
Every bit as snakey as the snake.
Not at all. This guarantees a club as well as the player, maximum benefit from a transfer.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rigadon on July 31, 2021, 10:58:37 AM
What benefit? We’re already rich apparently
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kipeye on July 31, 2021, 10:59:54 AM
What benefit? We’re already rich apparently
What is your point? We sell him for £20m less because we are rich?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rigadon on July 31, 2021, 11:03:32 AM
My point is that there is no benefit to this because our owners are already outrageously wealthy.  Selling Grealish weakens us massively and strengthens them.  We won’t be able to spend that 100m on same-level players, but had a chance to do that with one world class player already at the club. 

What benefit do you see in this? 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kipeye on July 31, 2021, 11:18:37 AM
My point is that there is no benefit to this because our owners are already outrageously wealthy.  Selling Grealish weakens us massively and strengthens them.  We won’t be able to spend that 100m on same-level players, but had a chance to do that with one world class player already at the club. 

What benefit do you see in this? 
I think you know well and just need the last word. The club gets the best deal and so does the player. That is a benefit to both.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 31, 2021, 11:20:03 AM
They've given up. An absolute crossroads and they've laid down and took it. Pathetic.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AndyB6 on July 31, 2021, 11:27:58 AM
I would love to know how difficult Grealish and his agent have been to deal with for our owners for the past few summers.
Maybe they are hacked off with dealing with them and given his injury record feel it is time to cash in before he becomes crocked?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan82 on July 31, 2021, 11:29:54 AM
They've given up. An absolute crossroads and they've laid down and took it. Pathetic.

The evidence points to a player/agent agitating to get out so I think that's why this has progressed so far.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TelfordVilla on July 31, 2021, 11:31:07 AM
This hasn't happened yet. He may stay, we may reject the bid.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: frank black on July 31, 2021, 11:35:39 AM
They've given up. An absolute crossroads and they've laid down and took it. Pathetic.

The evidence points to a player/agent agitating to get out so I think that's why this has progressed so far.

To me it’s blatantly obvious that there’s a clause in the contract.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 31, 2021, 11:44:03 AM
They've given up. An absolute crossroads and they've laid down and took it. Pathetic.

The evidence points to a player/agent agitating to get out so I think that's why this has progressed so far.

To me it’s blatantly obvious that there’s a clause in the contract.
not to me, if it was , then why is it being reported as a bid as opposed to triggering the release clause?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: frank black on July 31, 2021, 11:50:16 AM
They've given up. An absolute crossroads and they've laid down and took it. Pathetic.

The evidence points to a player/agent agitating to get out so I think that's why this has progressed so far.

To me it’s blatantly obvious that there’s a clause in the contract.
not to me, if it was , then why is it being reported as a bid as opposed to triggering the release clause?

We will just see how this pans out. Seems strange that it appears to have happened so smoothly for Man city and that they were confident enough to apparently to slot in a medical under the assumption we will accept it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy65 on July 31, 2021, 11:59:10 AM
They've given up. An absolute crossroads and they've laid down and took it. Pathetic.

The evidence points to a player/agent agitating to get out so I think that's why this has progressed so far.

To me it’s blatantly obvious that there’s a clause in the contract.
not to me, if it was , then why is it being reported as a bid as opposed to triggering the release clause?

You rarely hear of bids being linked to contractual release clauses. It’s a nonsense to think Jack would have signed a 5 year contract without given the previous season we had nearly been relegated

I have no idea why some are turning on the owners,  it’s ridiculous. Also we don’t want to keep an unhappy player if he really wants to go. The situation with Kane is crazy as Spurs try to keep him

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 31, 2021, 12:04:41 PM
It isn't crazy. It's Tottenham quite rightly deciding to hold onto their best player while we, according to reports, look set to sell ours.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rigadon on July 31, 2021, 12:07:19 PM
My point is that there is no benefit to this because our owners are already outrageously wealthy.  Selling Grealish weakens us massively and strengthens them.  We won’t be able to spend that 100m on same-level players, but had a chance to do that with one world class player already at the club. 

What benefit do you see in this? 
I think you know well and just need the last word. The club gets the best deal and so does the player. That is a benefit to both.

Ok.  Let me rephrase it.  What benefits are there for Aston Villa’s fans?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 31, 2021, 12:13:49 PM
It isn't crazy. It's Tottenham quite rightly deciding to hold onto their best player while we, according to reports, look set to sell ours.
even though Kane has come out and said he wants to go, where we have had complete silence from player and club.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Scott Nielsen on July 31, 2021, 12:48:15 PM
They've given up. An absolute crossroads and they've laid down and took it. Pathetic.

The evidence points to a player/agent agitating to get out so I think that's why this has progressed so far.

To me it’s blatantly obvious that there’s a clause in the contract.
not to me, if it was , then why is it being reported as a bid as opposed to triggering the release clause?

You rarely hear of bids being linked to contractual release clauses. It’s a nonsense to think Jack would have signed a 5 year contract without given the previous season we had nearly been relegated

I have no idea why some are turning on the owners,  it’s ridiculous. Also we don’t want to keep an unhappy player if he really wants to go. The situation with Kane is crazy as Spurs try to keep him


Aren't release clauses very rare in England? What other big transfers have been triggered by hitting a release clause in England? Common in Spain, sure, because they have to have one but not sure it's common anywhere else.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 31, 2021, 01:26:46 PM
Delph and Benteke had them I think. As did Suarez at Liverpool.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 31, 2021, 01:31:08 PM
Yeah but they were able to ignore Suarez's one for some reason. Or was that Torres?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: danno on July 31, 2021, 01:31:23 PM
Delph and Benteke had them I think. As did Suarez at Liverpool.

The Suarez one was strange, it basically amounted to having to inform him if a bid over a certain amount came in. It was why they were able to reject Arsenal's bid for him.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 31, 2021, 01:35:01 PM
It isn't crazy. It's Tottenham quite rightly deciding to hold onto their best player while we, according to reports, look set to sell ours.

Yes very disappointing if it plays out like that. Kane has less years left on his contract, older and Spurs on way down now while we still have ability to get a few places higher.

We need to be finishing above likes of Spurs sooner or later but near impossible if Kane stays as they'll have too much firepower to win tight games, we probably won't.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: astonvilla82 on July 31, 2021, 01:37:35 PM
With Kane and Tottenham it's totally different scenario, he been promised that they will win the premier league,FA cup and league cup next season and win the champions league the following season like they promise every season
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2021, 01:50:11 PM
Yeah but they were able to ignore Suarez's one for some reason. Or was that Torres?

I've never understood why people are confused by this. Arsenal triggered the clause but Liverpool knew he wasn't bothered about going so they offered him a new deal instead and then 'rejected' the bid. This is perfectly reasonable because the clause is between the club and player, if the player doesn't hold them to it then they don't have to accept the bid.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hairbandinho on July 31, 2021, 01:57:33 PM
The value I don't get as we should have got more, this confuses me. As for the actual decision to sell? We clearly don't want too and it's Grealish forcing the move. A week before the season starts. Just so he could have a nice time with England.

And people call you out when you say he isn't a legend because of this. Tell me, how is this any better than Delph? At least with him the club actually said, we need to sell you.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 31, 2021, 02:48:12 PM
Yeah but they were able to ignore Suarez's one for some reason. Or was that Torres?

I've never understood why people are confused by this. Arsenal triggered the clause but Liverpool knew he wasn't bothered about going so they offered him a new deal instead and then 'rejected' the bid. This is perfectly reasonable because the clause is between the club and player, if the player doesn't hold them to it then they don't have to accept the bid.

So if Suarez had said he was off, they wouldn't have been able to stop him? The way it was reported in the press always came across that Liverpool had rejected the bid out of hand and Racist Dracula had no choice.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on July 31, 2021, 02:53:35 PM
Racist Dracula is possibly the best nickname I have ever heard.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2021, 02:56:57 PM
Yeah but they were able to ignore Suarez's one for some reason. Or was that Torres?

I've never understood why people are confused by this. Arsenal triggered the clause but Liverpool knew he wasn't bothered about going so they offered him a new deal instead and then 'rejected' the bid. This is perfectly reasonable because the clause is between the club and player, if the player doesn't hold them to it then they don't have to accept the bid.

So if Suarez had said he was off, they wouldn't have been able to stop him? The way it was reported in the press always came across that Liverpool had rejected the bid out of hand and Racist Dracula had no choice.

If he'd wanted to leave he would've (although apparently the clause was pretty badly written and meant it would've been very hard to enforce) but it might have got pretty messy.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on July 31, 2021, 02:58:18 PM
Racist Dracula is possibly the best nickname I have ever heard.

It's a barnstomer. Great working title for a song too (too expressive to make it as the final name).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 31, 2021, 03:18:24 PM
Yeah but they were able to ignore Suarez's one for some reason. Or was that Torres?

I've never understood why people are confused by this. Arsenal triggered the clause but Liverpool knew he wasn't bothered about going so they offered him a new deal instead and then 'rejected' the bid. This is perfectly reasonable because the clause is between the club and player, if the player doesn't hold them to it then they don't have to accept the bid.

So if Suarez had said he was off, they wouldn't have been able to stop him? The way it was reported in the press always came across that Liverpool had rejected the bid out of hand and Racist Dracula had no choice.

If he'd wanted to leave he would've (although apparently the clause was pretty badly written and meant it would've been very hard to enforce) but it might have got pretty messy.

Ta.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 31, 2021, 03:23:58 PM
Does anybody know if either of the owners are flying in for the Grealish meeting on Monday morning?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 31, 2021, 03:25:47 PM
Think Sawiris lives in London anyway.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on July 31, 2021, 03:26:51 PM
Think Sawiris lives in London anyway.

Probably just jump in his Fiat 500 then
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 31, 2021, 03:29:17 PM
Can you just fly into the UK on a whim at the moment?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 31, 2021, 03:30:09 PM
Think Sawiris lives in London anyway.

Probably just jump in his Fiat 500 then

No, he'll be in his Nascar.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 31, 2021, 03:32:27 PM
Jet Pack surely. Billionaire awwwwway!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 31, 2021, 03:33:04 PM
Think Sawiris lives in London anyway.

Probably just jump in his Fiat 500 then

Somebody's going to have to explain that one to sickbeggar.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 31, 2021, 03:41:34 PM
Can you just fly into the UK on a whim at the moment?
private jet from the US no problem.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: caster troy on July 31, 2021, 03:47:29 PM
Wes Edens needs to fly in too, and bring his daughter for the talks. Not sure Jack could say no to her!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Border villan on July 31, 2021, 03:50:29 PM
When we sold Andy Gray many Villa fans thought it was the end of the world, turned out quite well in the end.
If Jack stays or goes our owners will have plans in place to return us to our rightful place at the pinnacle of English football.
Come on people look at the progress so far.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richtheholtender on July 31, 2021, 03:52:16 PM
When we sold Andy Gray many Villa fans thought it was the end of the world, turned out quite well in the end.
If Jack stays or goes our owners will have plans in place to return us to our rightful place at the pinnacle of English football.
Come on people look at the progress so far.



There's at least one villa fan who can't see where you're coming from. Unfortunately he's the one that matters
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan82 on July 31, 2021, 03:59:44 PM
Going for Bailey so soon after yesterday's bombshells at least shows this is not a repeat of the late Lerner years when we either didn't replace players or replaced good players with very average ones (Stephen Ireland, N'Zogbia, Gestede etc.). To me it looks like we dust ourselves down and we keep going regardless of the outcome of the other saga.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2021, 07:33:11 PM
Bailey coming in shows where the owners ambitions are. He is a serious statement signing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: N'ZMAV on July 31, 2021, 07:36:10 PM
Can you just fly into the UK on a whim at the moment?
Billionaires can still probably do what the fuck they like.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 31, 2021, 07:38:14 PM
Can you just fly into the UK on a whim at the moment?
Billionaires can still probably do what the fuck they like.
if you are double vax you can fly in without quarantine.
I expect Wes to be on his way.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 31, 2021, 09:09:13 PM
Can you just fly into the UK on a whim at the moment?
Billionaires can still probably do what the fuck they like.
if you are double vax you can fly in without quarantine.
I expect Wes to be on his way.


Glue factory?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on July 31, 2021, 10:21:23 PM
It’s difficult for the owners.

Do they want to keep him? yes

Have they offered him a new contract? Yes

Can they influence him to stay? Yes and no

The big elephant in the room that ties their hands is FFP. It’s a major restriction in their ability to flex wage structures within our income and still have money for transfers.

I’ve said it enough times on here until we start to seriously flex muscles and improve our commercial income from shirt manufacturer and sponsor and other commercial avenues we will always be an also ran.

In addition player trading is another avenue to improve income and get round FFP. If Grealish does go the biggest test will be how well that money is reinvested and used to further enhance squad values and transfer fees and give the owners and mgmt teammmore flexibility to improve the squad.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 31, 2021, 10:24:47 PM
Can you just fly into the UK on a whim at the moment?
No. You still need an aircraft to do that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 31, 2021, 10:25:48 PM
Surely FFP has been relaxed for the Covid affected period. We are spending on now and the future on excellent players with outstanding potential. If we have another good season and break into European competition then even with a reintroduction of whatever FFP eventually looks like we should be in a great position commercially to really push on.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LukeJames on July 31, 2021, 10:28:32 PM
I’ve said it enough times on here until we start to seriously flex muscles and improve our commercial income from shirt manufacturer and sponsor and other commercial avenues we will always be an also ran.

What better way to maximise this than to have one of the most marketable players in Europe?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on July 31, 2021, 10:31:04 PM
I’ve said it enough times on here until we start to seriously flex muscles and improve our commercial income from shirt manufacturer and sponsor and other commercial avenues we will always be an also ran.

What better way to maximise this than to have one of the most marketable players in Europe?

Agreed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FatSam on July 31, 2021, 10:31:50 PM
I’ve said it enough times on here until we start to seriously flex muscles and improve our commercial income from shirt manufacturer and sponsor and other commercial avenues we will always be an also ran.
If only our owners could use a fake shirt sponsorship deal to artificially inflate our income?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on July 31, 2021, 10:46:05 PM
I’ve said it enough times on here until we start to seriously flex muscles and improve our commercial income from shirt manufacturer and sponsor and other commercial avenues we will always be an also ran.
If only our owners could use a fake shirt sponsorship deal to artificially inflate our income?

I’m still puzzled why we haven’t done this. Fortress or Oracom I don’t care.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dante Lavelli on July 31, 2021, 10:49:13 PM
I’ve said it enough times on here until we start to seriously flex muscles and improve our commercial income from shirt manufacturer and sponsor and other commercial avenues we will always be an also ran.
If only our owners could use a fake shirt sponsorship deal to artificially inflate our income?

I’m still puzzled why we haven’t done this. Fortress or Oracom I don’t care.

Kit supplied by Adidas…
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on July 31, 2021, 10:51:36 PM
I’ve said it enough times on here until we start to seriously flex muscles and improve our commercial income from shirt manufacturer and sponsor and other commercial avenues we will always be an also ran.
If only our owners could use a fake shirt sponsorship deal to artificially inflate our income?

I’m still puzzled why we haven’t done this. Fortress or Oracom I don’t care.

Kit supplied by Adidas…

Gotta be worth more than Kappa/Cazoo.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on July 31, 2021, 10:52:18 PM
I’ve said it enough times on here until we start to seriously flex muscles and improve our commercial income from shirt manufacturer and sponsor and other commercial avenues we will always be an also ran.
If only our owners could use a fake shirt sponsorship deal to artificially inflate our income?

I’m still puzzled why we haven’t done this. Fortress or Oracom I don’t care.

Kit supplied by Adidas…

Maybe one of them could send a nephew or someone to the club shop to buy £100m worth of shirts and those rubbers that go on the end of pencils. Job done.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on August 01, 2021, 12:30:38 AM
On a serious point, I do not understand FFP and why we have to abide by it. Surely the ESL clubs have shat all over it? If not, why are some of them £1bn in debt?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on August 01, 2021, 09:05:30 AM
On a serious point, I do not understand FFP and why we have to abide by it. Surely the ESL clubs have shat all over it? If not, why are some of them £1bn in debt?

From memory, clubs like Man U who were basically bought by the Glazers on the never never, still make a big profit to easily service the debt interest even if it remains vast amounts of debt. So in real life you can have a grand in your bank account, you can owe 40k on your credit card and be earning 30k a year but apparently you're better off than someone with 1m in the bank, has no debt, but who only makes 15k per year. Hence all these iffy sponsorship deals with City to boost the money coming in. Just a means to stop new rich upstart owners buying their way into the honeypot and taking the established clubs places basically, and unfortunately we're one of them upstarts.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clive W on August 01, 2021, 09:39:00 AM
On a serious point, I do not understand FFP and why we have to abide by it. Surely the ESL clubs have shat all over it? If not, why are some of them £1bn in debt?
I think that it’s all based on the annual profit and loss and not on balance sheet (which is an accumulation of x years profit and loss)

Therefore as long as the 3 years p&l are within the limits, the outstanding debt, no matter how large, is irrelevant for ffp purposes
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 01, 2021, 12:23:37 PM
On a serious point, I do not understand FFP and why we have to abide by it. Surely the ESL clubs have shat all over it? If not, why are some of them £1bn in debt?
I think that it’s all based on the annual profit and loss and not on balance sheet (which is an accumulation of x years profit and loss)

Therefore as long as the 3 years p&l are within the limits, the outstanding debt, no matter how large, is irrelevant for ffp purposes
yes the debt is irrelevant FFP is based on an allowable level of losses.
Citeh have driven a bus through the concept by withholding information and it would now appear that they have played the revenue recognition trick as well as engaging in related party sponsorship arrangements.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dante Lavelli on August 01, 2021, 03:14:38 PM
Wes needs to bring a few of the Bucks over with him to show the Villa squad that he means business.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on August 01, 2021, 05:04:53 PM
Wes needs to bring a few of the Bucks over with him to show the Villa squad that he means business.

The Greek lad is a big fella, maybe stick him on with 20 to go if we're losing and want to go long.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: CT on August 01, 2021, 05:05:58 PM
Wes needs to bring a few of the Bucks over with him to show the Villa squad that he means business.

The Greek lad is a big fella, maybe stick him on with 20 to go if we're losing and want to go long.

You are Steve Bruce and I claim my £5!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Demitri_C on August 01, 2021, 05:14:40 PM
Wes needs to bring a few of the Bucks over with him to show the Villa squad that he means business.

The Greek lad is a big fella, maybe stick him on with 20 to go if we're losing and want to go long.

Im not that big sorry to disappoint  😉
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on August 01, 2021, 08:07:37 PM
Wes needs to bring a few of the Bucks over with him to show the Villa squad that he means business.

The Greek lad is a big fella, maybe stick him on with 20 to go if we're losing and want to go long.

Im not that big sorry to disappoint  😉

Ha! Bring yer boots anyway.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on August 01, 2021, 08:12:25 PM
Can you just fly into the UK on a whim at the moment?
No. You still need an aircraft to do that.

The Boeing Whim is a small, inter-continental jet.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on August 01, 2021, 08:28:25 PM
Wes needs to bring a few of the Bucks over with him to show the Villa squad that he means business.

The Greek lad is a big fella, maybe stick him on with 20 to go if we're losing and want to go long.

Im not that big sorry to disappoint  😉

I still think there’s a football in there
Could do a job
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hockley Lion on August 01, 2021, 11:15:54 PM
Can you just fly into the UK on a whim at the moment?
No. You still need an aircraft to do that.

The Boeing Whim is a small, inter-continental jet.

😂🤣
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richtheholtender on August 02, 2021, 06:57:54 PM
No sign of Wes today then?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: jwarry on August 02, 2021, 07:08:42 PM
No sign of Wes today then?

Wrong thread or you making a point about the investment?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richtheholtender on August 02, 2021, 07:09:26 PM
Wrong thread
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on August 04, 2021, 10:45:50 AM
This is the first big test for me.

Once we settled down after the takeover it was always a matter of time before we got promoted.

Some questionable signings in 2019 but we stayed up just and now two years on you can see the logic with some of those like Konsa who needed time to find their feet looking like really good premier league players. Kept faith with DS aswell which we all debated to death during 19/20.

Now the big achilles heel....replacing a key player who gets sold and frustratingly it's our best one by a mile rather than say a very good one like McGinn who'd be more expendable with what we have in the squad.

We failed dismally to do it in 2010/11 period when Young, Milner and Downing all left and dropped down 10 places in two seasons. That happens again and we get relegated.

Summer of 2015 we were bad but we didn't have to be 17 points bad, again thinking Gestede could replace Benteke was completely laughable.

We still need more signings to give the fans some hope as this will leave a massive void and will be big frustration in the stands if we don't get off to a good start so this to me is where they show they're better than Lerner in a key point in our rise up the table.

When we sold Yorke we signed Dublin and Merson within the next two months and actually improved for the next 18 months so that's the sort of thinking we need, get in a top european playmaker or goalscoring midfielder to rejig things and we should still have a top half team but it gets tougher now in post Grealish era.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on August 04, 2021, 10:47:11 AM
If they're still going to spend money best do it now before Spurs get their hands on the £150m for Kane.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on August 04, 2021, 10:47:52 AM
If you sell one of your talented players to a rival then you're not really looking to challenge them. I'm just hoping NSWE have maxxed out knowing Jack has ongoing serious injury concerns. Going forwards NSWE will be judged by their statement signings and not just their pick-ups from championship/lower PL clubs.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on August 04, 2021, 10:51:15 AM
If you sell one of your talented players to a rival then you're not really looking to challenge them. I'm just hoping NSWE have maxxed out knowing Jack has ongoing serious injury concerns. Going forwards NSWE will be judged by their statement signings and not just their pick-ups from championship/lower PL clubs.

Leicester in last 3/4 years have sold players to Man. United and Chelsea, they've finished what a point or two off them in last two seasons and beat Chelsea in fa cup final so they know what they're doing and don't panic and just sign random mugs to replace world class talent.

Todd Cantwell isn't a bad player but feels like the sort which will have other clubs sniggering if we sign him and laud him as some sort of Grealish replacement, someone like Damsgaard would be much more exciting if that's a serious link.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on August 04, 2021, 10:51:22 AM
If you sell one of your talented players to a rival then you're not really looking to challenge them. I'm just hoping NSWE have maxxed out knowing Jack has ongoing serious injury concerns. Going forwards NSWE will be judged by their statement signings and not just their pick-ups from championship/lower PL clubs.

Liverpool sold them Sterling, so it can be done.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2021, 10:53:12 AM
Yep. If you reinvest right we can take a big step forward. Let’s be honest we’re not direct rivals of Citeh at this time. We need to make that step forward before we can be that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on August 04, 2021, 10:53:40 AM
I have way more faith in these owners to make the right choices when it comes to reinvesting compared to previous regimes. We never had the right backroom setup even when lerner was splashing the cash, thanks mainly to MON's fetish for right backs etc. They've done almost everything right so far, so for me there is more than enough credit in the bank to trust them to continue the upward trajectory even with this setback.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on August 04, 2021, 11:01:23 AM
Yep. If you reinvest right we can take a big step forward. Let’s be honest we’re not direct rivals of Citeh at this time. We need to make that step forward before we can be that.

Think key now is can we finish above someone like Spurs next season? We beat them right at the end of the season and played very well and we were 5-6 points off them in the table so not much of a gulf after 38 games really.

And their best player by a mile is on strike wanting his medals from City aswell. Will come down to how well they spend whatever they get from Kane as they struggled for two seasons after selling Bale in 2013 in similar circumstances.

Would be horrible though if they somehow managed to wrangle another 12 months out of Kane as we'd have next to no chance of finishing above them so wouldn't be finishing that high in top half. I'd be reaching Ads levels if that happened!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OzVilla on August 04, 2021, 11:20:40 AM
Spurs have huge problems financially. They’ll sell Kane and no doubt get top dollar  but not reinvest it all.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 04, 2021, 11:23:55 AM
I have way more faith in these owners to make the right choices when it comes to reinvesting compared to previous regimes. We never had the right backroom setup even when lerner was splashing the cash, thanks mainly to MON's fetish for right backs etc. They've done almost everything right so far, so for me there is more than enough credit in the bank to trust them to continue the upward trajectory even with this setback.

Agreed. They have barely put a foot wrong since saving us. I don’t even blame them in the slightest for this. They’ve done all they can to strengthen us and keep Jack. He’s massively let them and us down
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Demitri_C on August 04, 2021, 11:31:44 AM
Dont blame the owners this was jacks decison not theirs.

They will invest the money wisely i ahve no doubt about that.

Be absolutely hilarous if city get banned from europe for 5 years and jacks stuck there while we qualify
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on August 04, 2021, 11:55:32 AM
Spurs have huge problems financially. They’ll sell Kane and no doubt get top dollar  but not reinvest it all.

They're signing a very good CB from Serie A for 40m so still active regardless of Kane.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11675/12371997/tottenham-transfer-news-spurs-agree-deal-to-sign-atalanta-defender-cristian-romero

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OzVilla on August 04, 2021, 11:57:40 AM
Active is one thing, spending the £140 million they’d get for Kane quite another. They’ll spend less than half that imo.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on August 04, 2021, 12:02:20 PM
Active is one thing, spending the £140 million they’d get for Kane quite another. They’ll spend less than half that imo.
I'd imagine they still trying to pay off the new ground. Despite today's events, I'd rather be in our position than Spurs: they'll be bogged down financially for years, like Arsenal.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: not3bad on August 04, 2021, 12:09:59 PM
Dont blame the owners this was jacks decison not theirs.

They will invest the money wisely i ahve no doubt about that.

Be absolutely hilarous if city get banned from europe for 5 years and jacks stuck there while we qualify

I think this is a key point. It appears that NSWE did all they could to persuade Jack to stay, and it looks like they were following through with the vision they gave to him last October. They didn't change. He did.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Demitri_C on August 04, 2021, 12:19:12 PM
Dont blame the owners this was jacks decison not theirs.

They will invest the money wisely i ahve no doubt about that.

Be absolutely hilarous if city get banned from europe for 5 years and jacks stuck there while we qualify

I think this is a key point. It appears that NSWE did all they could to persuade Jack to stay, and it looks like they were following through with the vision they gave to him last October. They didn't change. He did.

Agreed was all jacks decision.  You would understand if owners didnt share his ambitions  BUT they have backed us. Also the other thing that has annoyed me jack was rewarded with a massive contract and has after 1 year said stuff you all im off.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Tuscans on August 04, 2021, 12:26:25 PM
Many journos reporting the release clause was met.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: astonvilla82 on August 04, 2021, 12:35:21 PM
Harsh lesson learned by our owners about British football about being nice and civil
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: West Derby Villan on August 04, 2021, 02:08:41 PM
NSWE can’t be blamed for any of this , Jack and his agent are the culprits. Anyway onwards and upwards without Jack
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: N'ZMAV on August 04, 2021, 06:48:02 PM
These guys mean business.

Fuck Grealish.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 04, 2021, 07:03:18 PM
No fucking around at all. Grealish gone, triggers pulled on deals all over the shop
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2021, 07:40:11 PM
I think it’s pretty clear, as it should have been all along, that our owners mean business.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on August 04, 2021, 07:44:47 PM
I really do hope there’s egg on a few faces this time next year.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Border villan on August 04, 2021, 07:46:05 PM
Those who have doubts about a long term commitment and plan from our owners need to take several steps back.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 04, 2021, 07:52:49 PM
I really do hope there’s egg on a few faces this time next year.

Just one would be fine.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on August 04, 2021, 08:07:01 PM
I really do hope there’s egg on a few faces this time next year.

Just one would be fine.

Yep. Scrambled, boiled, fried and benedict.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Demitri_C on August 04, 2021, 08:08:36 PM
Stuff grealish

The real messiahs are wes and nassef
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on August 04, 2021, 10:13:12 PM
It’s clear that these guys (by that I mean the owners & management team) knew Jacks intentions some time ago, as we’re seeing now with the speed we are recruiting. First class ownership in action.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villadelph on August 04, 2021, 11:31:05 PM
It’s clear that these guys (by that I mean the owners & management team) knew Jacks intentions some time ago, as we’re seeing now with the speed we are recruiting. First class ownership in action.

Not to mention they are splurging £25-40m on every signing - it’s needs to be appreciated. These guys are extremely committed and they mean business. I am very grateful.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OzVilla on August 05, 2021, 12:05:14 AM
They couldn't have done any more, this is down to Jack.  But the message I think it also sends to both players and agents is that our owners act with integrity and don't try and play games (See Levy, Kronkee etc). 

I know agents generally deserve a special place in hell but this might help open doors for us down the track.

 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on August 05, 2021, 12:07:28 AM
The only door I hope this opens for Jack's agent is one into a vat of acid.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: purpletrousers on August 05, 2021, 12:53:34 AM
It’s clear that these guys (by that I mean the owners & management team) knew Jacks intentions some time ago, as we’re seeing now with the speed we are recruiting. First class ownership in action.
Well there has been alleged ITK that they were v well prepared for staying or going, also an allegation that Jack said for two months he was signing then then did a 180 degree turn.

So I’d suggest it smells of exquisitely good contingency planning rather than knowing all along. Even the kit launch, I think they are honourable enough not to fleece kids shirts with JG on whilst knowing he was going, I think at that point they were believe the earlier promise or at least hopeful.

Again the alleged ITK that he was narked by being used in the kit launch as he thought it was all up in the air still. (Maybe it was even a game plan to encourage his loyalty.

Could all be rubbish but makes sense.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on August 05, 2021, 06:41:13 AM
Active is one thing, spending the £140 million they’d get for Kane quite another. They’ll spend less than half that imo.
I'd be a little wary about Spuds and the Kane money. No that we have Ings, I wonder whether Watkins could be persuaded back to the Smoke.
Gods knows, I hope not but it is a scenario.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: passport1 on August 05, 2021, 08:52:29 AM
It’s clear that these guys (by that I mean the owners & management team) knew Jacks intentions some time ago, as we’re seeing now with the speed we are recruiting. First class ownership in action.
Well there has been alleged ITK that they were v well prepared for staying or going, also an allegation that Jack said for two months he was signing then then did a 180 degree turn.

So I’d suggest it smells of exquisitely good contingency planning rather than knowing all along. Even the kit launch, I think they are honourable enough not to fleece kids shirts with JG on whilst knowing he was going, I think at that point they were believe the earlier promise or at least hopeful.

Again the alleged ITK that he was narked by being used in the kit launch as he thought it was all up in the air still. (Maybe it was even a game plan to encourage his loyalty.

Could all be rubbish but makes sense.

I used to know someone who worked in f1 a few years back . The team were doing well with an up and coming driver who was very popular with the fans. I said to him that they must be very optimistic  about the next season. To my astonishment he revealed that the driver wouldn't be with them. They were getting someone else in who brought bigger sponsorship with him. The owner regularly raved about the incumbent  until of course the ' shock' news of the driver change was announced.

In my experience by the time fans get the true story the owners/ management have been aware of it for some considerable time.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on August 05, 2021, 01:53:40 PM
Code: [Select]
In my experience by the time fans get the true story the owners/ management have been aware of it for some considerable time.
That is in all walks of life, especially business where very rarely is anything left to chance
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: David_Nab on August 05, 2021, 03:44:03 PM
Active is one thing, spending the £140 million they’d get for Kane quite another. They’ll spend less than half that imo.
I'd be a little wary about Spuds and the Kane money. No that we have Ings, I wonder whether Watkins could be persuaded back to the Smoke.
Gods knows, I hope not but it is a scenario.

Even if that was to happen with £140 mil to spend and them needing a striker we would be pulling in a huge fee
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on August 05, 2021, 03:49:43 PM
I'd like to add to my earleir comments about what should and shouldn't be included in any club statement about Grealish.

I would like Nas or Wes or both to say something along the lines of 'where we are heading we don't want quitters on board' and just leave it there.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: DB on August 05, 2021, 04:12:34 PM
Active is one thing, spending the £140 million they’d get for Kane quite another. They’ll spend less than half that imo.
I'd be a little wary about Spuds and the Kane money. No that we have Ings, I wonder whether Watkins could be persuaded back to the Smoke.
Gods knows, I hope not but it is a scenario.

Even if that was to happen with £140 mil to spend and them needing a striker we would be pulling in a huge fee

Watkins is not a 'lad' like the turncoat, he has a young family
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 05, 2021, 08:28:16 PM
Proof the owners did not lie down.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mike on August 05, 2021, 11:17:52 PM
I do hope they intend to invest a significant amount on top of the Ratboy money. I suspect they do.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Colhint on August 05, 2021, 11:25:12 PM
yup these owners are good. They bought us when we were on Old Kent Road, Now we are somewhere between Vine St and Leicester sq. Losing jack is your first dice is a 2 so we don't want to land on a fine, but land on Piccadilly and we're on the fringe of Europe.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on August 05, 2021, 11:27:32 PM
Proof the owners did not lie down.
From Purslow's broadcast earlier tonight, it's clear that Grealish was eyeing a move even when he put pen to paper on his new deal last September. Fortunately, the board had the foresight to set a (high) value for the release clause. I doubt Lerner or Dr Tony's people would have had the sense to do the same.

Onwards and upwards now. Grealish = Yorke = Platt = Gray. We'll improve on last season's eleventh place finish.

BTW, thanks for your efforts, Jack. Could have been a legend. Now will be merely a footnote in the history of two clubs. Maybe more.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richtheholtender on August 05, 2021, 11:32:29 PM
Given there is no ratboy thread anymore I'd like to state that I hope he doesn't return again. Not at 31,32,33 and so on. Door firmly closed, don't come back.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on August 05, 2021, 11:34:34 PM
Given there is no ratboy thread anymore I'd like to state that I hope he doesn't return again. Not at 31,32,33 and so on. Door firmly closed, don't come back.
I agree with that sentiment.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on August 06, 2021, 12:12:51 AM
Me too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pooligan on August 06, 2021, 12:15:08 AM
Me also
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: tomd2103 on August 06, 2021, 12:20:07 AM
Proof the owners did not lie down.

Guess there was little they could do if a clause in his contract was triggered. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Demitri_C on August 06, 2021, 07:43:30 AM
Even with the release clause they still tried to bunp his wages.it was grealish decison and his alone.

Hw would have gone last summer had our owners not been firm. The man had no loyalty to us. All PR shite
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on August 06, 2021, 10:35:47 AM
Probably The only Premier League owners guaranteed a standing ovation from their clubs fans
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: JD on August 06, 2021, 10:47:46 AM
Proof the owners did not lie down.
From Purslow's broadcast earlier tonight, it's clear that Grealish was eyeing a move even when he put pen to paper on his new deal last September. Fortunately, the board had the foresight to set a (high) value for the release clause. I doubt Lerner or Dr Tony's people would have had the sense to do the same.

Onwards and upwards now. Grealish = Yorke = Platt = Gray. We'll improve on last season's eleventh place finish.

BTW, thanks for your efforts, Jack. Could have been a legend. Now will be merely a footnote in the history of two clubs. Maybe more.

Well put Chris, exactly what I'm thinking. Good to see you posting mate haven't seen you around lately.   
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brend'Watkins on August 06, 2021, 10:51:12 AM
Given there is no ratboy thread anymore I'd like to state that I hope he doesn't return again. Not at 31,32,33 and so on. Door firmly closed, don't come back.

Now, now think about what you're saying. In 12 months he might be of the opinion it was all a big mistake and be yearning to return for family reasons or he gets totally pissed off with queuing up on the M6 just to get home for his tea. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on August 06, 2021, 10:57:47 AM
Obviously not surprised the clause was there. Seemed odds-on after the obviously agent leaked story in the Sun months back. I'm not sure the club could have done anything different really. 100m when he signed his new contract was more than anyone would pay. If we'd set it higher  like 150m,his agent would have said it was a worthless clause. Only thing NSWE have been guilty of was thinking he had any loyalty to Villa, which probably goes for a lot of us. The reality is he would have walked barefoot on broken glass to sign for Spurs when they were interested, but if they'd come in this summer he wouldn't have even talked to them. Which about sums his priorities up really.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brend'Watkins on August 06, 2021, 11:28:19 AM
His priorities were to play at the highest level which for most gifted footballers is their aim.  I have no doubt that had we made Top 4 he'd have stayed.  We didn't and are unlikely to do that for at least another 2 seasons by which time he's missed out on a lot of top level football given he probably has only another 5 years left being at his peak. Basically, he's outgrown us for where we are now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Pat Mustard on August 06, 2021, 11:44:03 AM
I think NSWE have done all they could on this one, and couldn't have played it any other way.  When the dust settles we'll still be hurt and disappointed by the way Grealish handled it, but I can't honestly get as upset about this as lots of others seem to be - taking emotion out of it a player has left, we have to move on.  It's not even like they haven't done this to other big clubs - they've taken the best players from Liverpool, Arsenal, soon to be Spurs, so the media narrative of us being lower down the food chain and therefore inevitably having to roll over is not correct.

The important thing for NSWE is to make sure we keep progressing, and all the signs so far is that we most certainly are.  The investment in the academy is plain for all to see, and the first team is the strongest it's been in over a decade even without he who shall not be named. 

This isn't the first time we have been forced to sell our star player - the big challenge now is to make sure this is the last time it happens, because that will mean we have got to where we want to be.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on August 06, 2021, 11:50:58 AM
I never had a problem with him leaving or his personal priorities, villa fan or not. It was way he did it. When we were flirting with the top 4 under MON my favourite player was Milner. He wasn't the most talented player or the most eye-catching but he was the best imo - always an 8/10 player imo. I was gutted when he headed off but I realised he'd seen the writing on the wall like the rest of us, and of course leaving a club that was only heading one way when you can win medals is a no brainer. Thing is he never pretended he had a special feeling for the club or a Villa man through and through. Ratboy on the other hand, entered a contract with the fans rather than the club and when you dabble in that sort of stuff, you have to behave properly and be honest about things. The reality is he wasn't tapped up by City, but Grealish and his Agent tapped City up.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dante Lavelli on August 06, 2021, 11:55:59 AM
Absolute guesswork on my part but I can see Liverpool and Spurs sniffing around Watkins, possibly as soon as January.  Obviously we reject their advances but if Watkins wobbles and they offer stupid money (£85m+) we already have a decent insurance policy with Ings so the impact will not be as bad.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on August 06, 2021, 11:56:34 AM
His priorities were to play at the highest level which for most gifted footballers is their aim.  I have no doubt that had we made Top 4 he'd have stayed.  We didn't and are unlikely to do that for at least another 2 seasons by which time he's missed out on a lot of top level football given he probably has only another 5 years left being at his peak. Basically, he's outgrown us for where we are now.

Very balanced and rational post. Ultimately the timing of our renaissance just wasn't ideal for his age but could be for young talents like Chukwuemeka, Barry, Ramsey etc. If NSWE had been our owners for the past 8 years instead of the last 3 years, things may have been very different.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 06, 2021, 11:57:01 AM
Agents will talk about their clients' release clause figures all the time, I don't think it is meant to be a guarded secret.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on August 06, 2021, 11:58:14 AM
I'd like to get to a position where our captain doesn't move to man city.

Barry
(Milner?)
Delph
Grealish
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rigadon on August 06, 2021, 12:01:25 PM
Absolute guesswork on my part but I can see Liverpool and Spurs sniffing around Watkins, possibly as soon as January.  Obviously we reject their advances but if Watkins wobbles and they offer stupid money (£85m+) we already have a decent insurance policy with Ings so the impact will not be as bad.

Except the impact would be to further reinforce our current 'selling club' image and further dampen any notions we might have of breaking into the CL 'elite'.  If we keep selling our better players (in yoru example, to a direct rival) we will never progress to where we want to go.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: old man villa fan on August 06, 2021, 12:18:51 PM
The key to trying to keep hold of your best players is to tempt them into signing new contracts with high value release clauses in them.  It doesn't always mean you keep hold of them but it gets you a high transfer fee if they do go.  You will not be able to do it when you first sign a player but the first chance to get him to extend his contract is when you act.  This probably means getting them to sign up for 4 or 5 years.  This is where it pays to sign players with relatively low salaries to start with.  The Club will nearly always be in the stronger position doing this and it means they can always accept less if it suits.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on August 06, 2021, 12:19:13 PM
It’s clear that these guys (by that I mean the owners & management team) knew Jacks intentions some time ago, as we’re seeing now with the speed we are recruiting. First class ownership in action.
Well there has been alleged ITK that they were v well prepared for staying or going, also an allegation that Jack said for two months he was signing then then did a 180 degree turn.

So I’d suggest it smells of exquisitely good contingency planning rather than knowing all along. Even the kit launch, I think they are honourable enough not to fleece kids shirts with JG on whilst knowing he was going, I think at that point they were believe the earlier promise or at least hopeful.

Again the alleged ITK that he was narked by being used in the kit launch as he thought it was all up in the air still. (Maybe it was even a game plan to encourage his loyalty.

Could all be rubbish but makes sense.
From impressions I've had, I think we had our sights on Buendia and Bailey whilst NSWE were still operating under the assumption rat was staying. Ings, I'm not sure. Given the speed it happened at, I think it's more likely that we began recruitment before the Grealish situation had played out.

I dunno, my gut instinct is to say that maybe Cantwell, if he's incoming, is the only player we might not have gone for if Grealish had stayed. I also - gut feeling again - think we'll largely keep our powder dry this summer. Next summer we should be in the same FFP situation, but without the Grealish transfer so fresh in the mind, and the price inflation which comes with that.

FFP wise it'll be ridiculous. We'll be £200m to the good, but can spread transfer fees over the length of players contracts (4/5 years) - so presumably could spend well over that figure ...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on August 06, 2021, 12:39:33 PM
It’s clear that these guys (by that I mean the owners & management team) knew Jacks intentions some time ago, as we’re seeing now with the speed we are recruiting. First class ownership in action.
Well there has been alleged ITK that they were v well prepared for staying or going, also an allegation that Jack said for two months he was signing then then did a 180 degree turn.

So I’d suggest it smells of exquisitely good contingency planning rather than knowing all along. Even the kit launch, I think they are honourable enough not to fleece kids shirts with JG on whilst knowing he was going, I think at that point they were believe the earlier promise or at least hopeful.

Again the alleged ITK that he was narked by being used in the kit launch as he thought it was all up in the air still. (Maybe it was even a game plan to encourage his loyalty.

Could all be rubbish but makes sense.
From impressions I've had, I think we had our sights on Buendia and Bailey whilst NSWE were still operating under the assumption rat was staying. Ings, I'm not sure. Given the speed it happened at, I think it's more likely that we began recruitment before the Grealish situation had played out.

I dunno, my gut instinct is to say that maybe Cantwell, if he's incoming, is the only player we might not have gone for if Grealish had stayed. I also - gut feeling again - think we'll largely keep our powder dry this summer. Next summer we should be in the same FFP situation, but without the Grealish transfer so fresh in the mind, and the price inflation which comes with that.

FFP wise it'll be ridiculous. We'll be £200m to the good, but can spread transfer fees over the length of players contracts (4/5 years) - so presumably could spend well over that figure ...

I don't see why we should pay any attention to FFP. It either applies to everybody or to nobody. If anyone has a problem, tell them we'll comply when they find a way of making sure Man City do.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 09, 2021, 08:00:20 PM
A trailer embedded in this tweet is a good reminder of what they saved us from. If anyone knows how to embed it here, have at it! I'm about to watch the whole thing.

https://twitter.com/AJIunit/status/1424793093883170819
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 09, 2021, 08:04:02 PM
I'd like to get to a position where our captain doesn't move to man city.

Barry
(Milner?)
Delph
Grealish

Or... give Wesley the captaincy?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Monty on August 09, 2021, 10:01:52 PM
A trailer embedded in this tweet is a good reminder of what they saved us from. If anyone knows how to embed it here, have at it! I'm about to watch the whole thing.

https://twitter.com/AJIunit/status/1424793093883170819


Holy shit!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nelly on August 09, 2021, 10:22:39 PM
That could be explosive
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on August 09, 2021, 10:25:29 PM
Even how they slowly, determinedly and silently sidelined the fake doctor was classy. We are very lucky to have them.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on August 09, 2021, 10:42:51 PM
Even how they slowly, determinedly and silently sidelined the fake doctor was classy. We are very lucky to have them.

They couldn't be any further apart on the good/bad owner spectrum.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 10, 2021, 08:48:24 AM
Slight tangent but Kieran Maguire has been posting some interesting premier league finance figures today.

Here is one where NSWE should be seriously looking to improve us.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8UwgMfXEAAkFIL?format=png&name=small)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on August 10, 2021, 08:52:51 AM
Jesus! Brighton?  :o
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on August 10, 2021, 08:57:32 AM
Slight tangent but Kieran Maguire has been posting some interesting premier league finance figures today.

Here is one where NSWE should be seriously looking to improve us.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8UwgMfXEAAkFIL?format=png&name=small)

I've been banging on about this since the Ellis days. Every single previous ownership group has failed at this. It is difficult not qualifying for Europe to drive revenues in this area but this is lamentable.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on August 10, 2021, 09:01:21 AM
Slight tangent but Kieran Maguire has been posting some interesting premier league finance figures today.

Here is one where NSWE should be seriously looking to improve us.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8UwgMfXEAAkFIL?format=png&name=small)

I've been banging on about this since the Ellis days. Every single previous ownership group has failed at this. It is difficult not qualifying for Europe to drive revenues in this area but this is lamentable.

If  accurate that is staggering .
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 10, 2021, 09:08:35 AM
It's for 2019/20. We'd been in the Championship for three years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smoke on August 10, 2021, 09:12:33 AM
Laughable figures when you factor the visible lack of actual fanbase for Man City.

Dodgy with capit-Al D
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on August 10, 2021, 09:15:36 AM
The first we have to catch is Everton - I wonder how they do it? Dilapidated ground, similar UK based rather than global fan base, limited shirt deals... for them to have three times our commercial income amazing.

Corporate hospitality is something where we might have great service, but we are a long way off the most successful clubs. I worked on some stuff for Arsenal 10 years ago and they have suites in the ground selling for £48,000 per game... and sell out. That sort of scale generates so much income.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brend'Watkins on August 10, 2021, 09:35:40 AM
How legit is the Man City figure?  Yes, it's legit in the eyes of the PL if being sponsored by yourself for astronomical amounts is considered legit
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Pat Mustard on August 10, 2021, 09:43:25 AM
Slight tangent but Kieran Maguire has been posting some interesting premier league finance figures today.

Here is one where NSWE should be seriously looking to improve us.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8UwgMfXEAAkFIL?format=png&name=small)

It will be interesting to see how far we have come along by the end of this season - as someone else said, these figures are off the back of 3 years in the Championship - I'm guessing that a full, non-Covid affected season will see us moving up that table considerably.

It does highlight a few things though, one being the impact that up to date facilities have (Everton being an obvious outlier here, it would be interesting to know how they are so far ahead of everyone outside of the scum 6).  Modernising Villa Park has to be a priority for us if we are going to seriously improve commercial revenue.

Finally, if this doesn't prove FFP is a joke as applied to Man City then nothing does.  Second only to Manure in commercial income in England?  Absolute bullshit - I'm no fan of Liverpool or the rest, but there is no way on earth that Man City's commercial income would be anywhere near Liverpool's unless it's being artificially inflated by dodgy sponsorship deals from their owners.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on August 10, 2021, 09:47:34 AM
Slight tangent but Kieran Maguire has been posting some interesting premier league finance figures today.

Here is one where NSWE should be seriously looking to improve us.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8UwgMfXEAAkFIL?format=png&name=small)

It will be interesting to see how far we have come along by the end of this season - as someone else said, these figures are off the back of 3 years in the Championship - I'm guessing that a full, non-Covid affected season will see us moving up that table considerably.

It does highlight a few things though, one being the impact that up to date facilities have (Everton being an obvious outlier here, it would be interesting to know how they are so far ahead of everyone outside of the scum 6).  Modernising Villa Park has to be a priority for us if we are going to seriously improve commercial revenue.

Finally, if this doesn't prove FFP is a joke as applied to Man City then nothing does.  Second only to Manure in commercial income in England?  Absolute bullshit - I'm no fan of Liverpool or the rest, but there is no way on earth that Man City's commercial income would be anywhere near Liverpool's unless it's being artificially inflated by dodgy sponsorship deals from their owners.
Well said. Man City are without doubt the elephant in the room. But it would seem that they produce golden elephant dung which the PL are happy to use as fertiliser.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on August 10, 2021, 09:53:51 AM
Just noticed that the graph for the poll represents my feelings towards the North Stand.


Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 10, 2021, 09:55:42 AM
Can someone explain Commercial Income?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 10, 2021, 09:58:43 AM
Can someone explain Commercial Income?


My best guess would be money that doesn't come from TV or tickets.

Edit:or prize money.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 10, 2021, 09:59:38 AM
Can someone explain Commercial Income?


My best guess would be money that doesn't come from TV or tickets.
Mine would be non transfer fees.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on August 10, 2021, 10:02:55 AM
Kit deals, sponsorship/partnership deals, maybe corporate hospitality, non-matchday income, merch...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on August 10, 2021, 10:03:35 AM
Always said, if you want to  level things up, don't go down the FFP route which is too easy to manipulate and allows clubs to operates with massive debts, but put a 60% levy tax on any commercial income earned abroad. Would fuck up City and the likes of United and Liverpool with the plastic fans from abroad, not to mention kill ideas like the ESL stone dead.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on August 10, 2021, 10:04:05 AM
Think that chart shows how big we are. Championship club for 3 years and we have a similar commercial income on promotion after 1 year as a lot of established clubs.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on August 10, 2021, 10:55:26 AM
Good man, Ads - always sees the positives when it comes to his club.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hillbilly on August 11, 2021, 11:24:28 PM
Someone has just paid 88 million quid for 18 per cent of Crystal Palace. That values them at just shy of half a billion quid. NSWE got a bargain.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: caster troy on August 12, 2021, 08:59:47 AM
I'd give NSWE 10/10 for what they have achieved so far. The only thing I'd really like to hear more about is the plan for the stadium, I think it is too small for us now. I'd guess improvements there don't count against FFP, so it feels like a no brainer to get more fans in the stadium, particularly the younger generation.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on August 12, 2021, 09:58:05 AM
Someone has just paid 88 million quid for 18 per cent of Crystal Palace. That values them at just shy of half a billion quid. NSWE got a bargain.

When a ramshackle shed on a plot of land in South London is worth that much you know things are messed-up.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on August 12, 2021, 10:16:13 AM
It's the london premium, except in this case, the club in question may as well not be in london it's so remote.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sdwbvf on August 12, 2021, 10:16:31 AM
I teach some Palace fans. They think they are a cut above the Villa and will be even worse now that bloke with the hair has left. All because noone wants to buy their prized asset.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on August 12, 2021, 10:22:53 AM
It's the london premium, except in this case, the club in question may as well not be in london it's so remote.

It’s not even in Crystal Palace
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aev on August 12, 2021, 10:24:48 AM
Pride of Sarf Lahndan.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sdwbvf on August 12, 2021, 10:28:23 AM
Chelsea are in Fulham and Fulham are in Putney. West Ham are in Stratford. Plenty of it around in London. Arsenal are named after Woolwich Arsenal and they're the wrong side of the river now
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on August 12, 2021, 10:31:55 AM
It's the london premium, except in this case, the club in question may as well not be in london it's so remote.

It’s not even in Crystal Palace

Weird no man's land between there and Croydon. Worst place to get to ever.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on August 12, 2021, 10:32:28 AM
Does Putney not begin on the other side of the bridge?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on August 12, 2021, 10:35:12 AM
Always surprises me that there are over a million people with an SE postcode in South East London. That’s as big as Brum yet the 3 football teams are all relatively poorly supported despite a massive catchment area.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sdwbvf on August 12, 2021, 10:36:50 AM
It's the london premium, except in this case, the club in question may as well not be in london it's so remote.

It’s not even in Crystal Palace

Weird no man's land between there and Croydon. Worst place to get to ever.

15 minutes on a fast train from London Bridge. Doesn’t seem that bad. Driving is a nightmare though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: maidstonevillain on August 12, 2021, 10:38:22 AM
Does Putney not begin on the other side of the bridge?
Yes. Fulham FC is actually in Fulham.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on August 12, 2021, 10:39:25 AM
Does Putney not begin on the other side of the bridge?

Only one team south of the Thames has ever won the league
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on August 12, 2021, 10:42:57 AM
And Millwall is in east London (nth of the sewer)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 12, 2021, 10:43:20 AM
I teach some Palace fans. They think they are a cut above the Villa and will be even worse now that bloke with the hair has left. All because noone wants to buy their prized asset.

Teach them this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Goodman
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sdwbvf on August 12, 2021, 10:48:08 AM
There was a post a while ago about the kit when they set up. I have taught them that one already.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 12, 2021, 10:48:20 AM
I teach some Palace fans. They think they are a cut above the Villa and will be even worse now that bloke with the hair has left. All because noone wants to buy their prized asset.

Teach them this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Goodman
Love that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aev on August 12, 2021, 10:50:37 AM
Their training ground is very close to where i live, and plenty of the kids friends support Palace, which is far more preferable than Spurs, Arsenal or Oil FC etc.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sdwbvf on August 12, 2021, 10:53:02 AM
Their training ground is very close to where i live, and plenty of the kids friends support Palace, which is far more preferable than Spurs, Arsenal or Oil FC etc.

This is true. I have a lot more respect for the kids supporting their local team than the showier ones up in town. Same with the ones who support Fulham or even a couple of Millwall and Charlton ones.

Where is the Palace training ground. I've only lived down there 18 years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aev on August 12, 2021, 10:56:13 AM
Their training ground is very close to where i live, and plenty of the kids friends support Palace, which is far more preferable than Spurs, Arsenal or Oil FC etc.

This is true. I have a lot more respect for the kids supporting their local team than the showier ones up in town. Same with the ones who support Fulham or even a couple of Millwall and Charlton ones.

Where is the Palace training ground. I've only lived down there 18 years.

Copers Cope Road, Kent have a cricket ground right next door.

They have spent a fair bit of cash recently to get Academy A status I think. It is like a little pod of sporting "excellence" in New Beckenham.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sdwbvf on August 12, 2021, 11:00:23 AM
Thanks. Just found it on Google Maps. Tight site but not surprising for the area.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aev on August 12, 2021, 11:06:13 AM
Thanks. Just found it on Google Maps. Tight site but not surprising for the area.

It is actually decent size, they bought the land opposite that was previously a "Goals". There is quite a bit of green space around here, as many banks have/had their sports grounds here.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 12, 2021, 11:08:34 AM
Thanks. Just found it on Google Maps. Tight site but not surprising for the area.

It is actually decent size, they bought the land opposite that was previously a "Goals". There is quite a bit of green space around here, as many banks have/had their sports grounds here.
I have played on many of the pitches on those sports grounds.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on August 13, 2021, 01:21:41 PM
Lots of news around today of Edens trying to setup a 'Villains' franchise in Vegas for the MLS. Having a network of lniked clubs in different countries is one of the ways Red Bull and Man City have used to work around some of the FFP rules and to expand the commercial side of the business.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on August 13, 2021, 01:31:26 PM
Someone has just paid 88 million quid for 18 per cent of Crystal Palace. That values them at just shy of half a billion quid. NSWE got a bargain.
They bought a club that was almost bankrupt and in the 2nd tier.
Good timing on their part.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 13, 2021, 01:32:25 PM
Good luck to them so long as they don't go with the current incredibly boring trend of being called "FC", "City" or "United". Las Vegas Quicksilvers was the old NASL name so they should go with that I reckon.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on August 13, 2021, 01:40:58 PM
Good luck to them so long as they don't go with the current incredibly boring trend of being called "FC", "City" or "United". Las Vegas Quicksilvers was the old NASL name so they should go with that I reckon.

I quite like the sound of "Viva Las Vegas Villa"  ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on August 13, 2021, 02:07:30 PM
Good luck to them so long as they don't go with the current incredibly boring trend of being called "FC", "City" or "United". Las Vegas Quicksilvers was the old NASL name so they should go with that I reckon.

I quite like the sound of "Viva Las Vegas Villa"  ;)
The Vegas Villains (Villans)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: rooboy316 on August 13, 2021, 02:43:23 PM
Good luck to them so long as they don't go with the current incredibly boring trend of being called "FC", "City" or "United". Las Vegas Quicksilvers was the old NASL name so they should go with that I reckon.

I quite like the sound of "Viva Las Vegas Villa"  ;)

Villa Las Vegas, surely?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on August 13, 2021, 02:43:32 PM
Las Vegas Villains is the name apparently.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: charlatan on August 13, 2021, 04:39:16 PM
Always surprises me that there are over a million people with an SE postcode in South East London. That’s as big as Brum yet the 3 football teams are all relatively poorly supported despite a massive catchment area.

There are over 400,000 in the Dudley postcode area with no representation in the top five divisions. Do many in South London support teams north of the river?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aev on August 13, 2021, 04:47:34 PM
Always surprises me that there are over a million people with an SE postcode in South East London. That’s as big as Brum yet the 3 football teams are all relatively poorly supported despite a massive catchment area.

There are over 400,000 in the Dudley postcode area with no representation in the top five divisions. Do many in South London support teams north of the river?

Quite a lot I'd say.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on August 13, 2021, 04:57:18 PM
Good luck to them so long as they don't go with the current incredibly boring trend of being called "FC", "City" or "United". Las Vegas Quicksilvers was the old NASL name so they should go with that I reckon.

I quite like the sound of "Viva Las Vegas Villa"  ;)

Villa Las Vegas, surely?
Was going to suggest the same. Las Vegas Villains is nice though - makes it clear they're the tribute act.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on August 13, 2021, 05:00:58 PM
Always surprises me that there are over a million people with an SE postcode in South East London. That’s as big as Brum yet the 3 football teams are all relatively poorly supported despite a massive catchment area.

There are over 400,000 in the Dudley postcode area with no representation in the top five divisions. Do many in South London support teams north of the river?

Quite a lot I'd say.

It’s strange. Millwall are by far the biggest supported team in Lewisham and probably some parts of Bromley. It’s just that none of them seem to go to the games.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on August 13, 2021, 05:17:51 PM
Was going to suggest the same. Las Vegas Villains is nice though - makes it clear they're the tribute act.

I like it but they may not like the criminal connotations. Given the the popularity of animal names in US sport the 'Las Vegas Lions' could be part of the Pride.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on August 13, 2021, 05:39:25 PM
Always surprises me that there are over a million people with an SE postcode in South East London. That’s as big as Brum yet the 3 football teams are all relatively poorly supported despite a massive catchment area.

There are over 400,000 in the Dudley postcode area with no representation in the top five divisions. Do many in South London support teams north of the river?

Quite a lot I'd say.

It’s strange. Millwall are by far the biggest supported team in Lewisham and probably some parts of Bromley. It’s just that none of them seem to go to the games.

They don't want to get mixed-up with the shitty element of racists at matchday?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SaddVillan on August 17, 2021, 07:20:49 PM
Anybody complaining about goings on at Villa Park should just read this and say "Thanks" to Wes and Naseef.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/football-league-blog/2021/aug/17/rooney-says-he-wont-make-excuses-but-derby-are-in-an-impossible-mess?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on August 17, 2021, 08:08:43 PM
Always surprises me that there are over a million people with an SE postcode in South East London. That’s as big as Brum yet the 3 football teams are all relatively poorly supported despite a massive catchment area.

There are over 400,000 in the Dudley postcode area with no representation in the top five divisions. Do many in South London support teams north of the river?

Quite a lot I'd say.

It’s strange. Millwall are by far the biggest supported team in Lewisham and probably some parts of Bromley. It’s just that none of them seem to go to the games.

They don't want to get mixed-up with the shitty element of racists at matchday?

My grandfather is from Lewisham and, before dementia, he supported Fulham. He's pretty old-school, conservative, ex-army, but he was always the most anti-racist person I knew growing up. Any racism and he would fly off the handle completely.

Apart from the Irish. Today, he can't wipe his own arse, but he still tells "the one about the Irish firing squad" ("they stood in a circle").

Edit: not entirely relevant, but his anti-racism could be why he didn't follow Millwall.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: exigo on August 17, 2021, 08:17:43 PM
Always surprises me that there are over a million people with an SE postcode in South East London. That’s as big as Brum yet the 3 football teams are all relatively poorly supported despite a massive catchment area.

There are over 400,000 in the Dudley postcode area with no representation in the top five divisions. Do many in South London support teams north of the river?

Quite a lot I'd say.

It’s strange. Millwall are by far the biggest supported team in Lewisham and probably some parts of Bromley. It’s just that none of them seem to go to the games.

Well that's now my postcode, and travel 250 miles to Villa Park and back every other week.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on August 17, 2021, 10:45:06 PM
Good luck to them so long as they don't go with the current incredibly boring trend of being called "FC", "City" or "United". Las Vegas Quicksilvers was the old NASL name so they should go with that I reckon.

I quite like the sound of "Viva Las Vegas Villa"  ;)

Villa Las Vegas, surely?

Like.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on August 18, 2021, 09:48:03 AM
Was going to suggest the same. Las Vegas Villains is nice though - makes it clear they're the tribute act.

I like it but they may not like the criminal connotations. Given the the popularity of animal names in US sport the 'Las Vegas Lions' could be part of the Pride.
Las Vegas Lions. That's the winner for me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on August 20, 2021, 11:20:23 AM
FFS, can't even sign Morrisons now. NSWE out! >:(
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on August 20, 2021, 11:23:24 AM
There was a story on the local radio Wednesday that we'd lost 14m in beer and pie sales since Covid. Haven't seen it reported anywhere else.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on August 20, 2021, 11:28:01 AM
I'd prefer Las Vegas Villans.

I know therer's some debate over Villains vs Villans, but I'll always think Villans is the correct version.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on August 20, 2021, 12:40:15 PM
There was a story on the local radio Wednesday that we'd lost 14m in beer and pie sales since Covid. Haven't seen it reported anywhere else.
Who ate all the pies, then?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on August 20, 2021, 12:44:25 PM
I'd prefer Las Vegas Villans.

I know therer's some debate over Villains vs Villans, but I'll always think Villans is the correct version.
My dad would thoroughly agree with you there - always writes it 'Villans'.  I think it's the correct version too, by the way, but thought I was in a minority of 1 (well, 2) there.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on August 20, 2021, 12:54:32 PM
There was a story on the local radio Wednesday that we'd lost 14m in beer and pie sales since Covid. Haven't seen it reported anywhere else.
Who ate all the pies, then?

Dunno. From memory it was about 10m in alcohol and 4m in pies during the COVD period. They may have performed some accountancy jiggery-pokery and amortised the fall in pies revenue over the remaining years left of Bruce's contract.  8)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on August 20, 2021, 01:36:50 PM
That doesn't sound right, how many homes games have we missed out on, about 20?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on August 20, 2021, 01:42:00 PM
No idea. This was on greatest hits radio. I had a look when I got in expecting it be on the Interweb and couldn't find a thing about it
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on August 20, 2021, 01:46:21 PM
They should be cancelled for disparaging Brummie diets like that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on August 20, 2021, 01:46:30 PM
That would equate to selling 100,000 pints per match and over 50,000 pies…
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on August 20, 2021, 01:55:59 PM
yeah the only article I can find on this was a month ago, and the figures are total different. 7m loss in pies and pints. Actually i'm sure that's wrong too, must be including ticket sales. File under garbled local radio station story.

(https://www.sportbible.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=648,quality=70,format=jpeg,fit=pad,dpr=1/https://s3-images.sportbible.com/s3/content/d04679a55f212a75e3bf01ef39268be4.jpg)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 20, 2021, 06:31:29 PM
That would equate to selling 100,000 pints per match and over 50,000 pies…

Considering the length of the queues and the fact that no one ever actually gets served I would say those figures err on the ambitious side.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 30, 2021, 10:20:16 PM
😆

https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/soccer/bill-foley-honors-oct-1-responders-with-potential-mls-team-name-2430030/
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 30, 2021, 10:20:49 PM
Woodhall getting ready to sue, as we speak.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on August 31, 2021, 12:28:32 AM
"...Heroes always win" yeah but are they cool? Are they fuck. Just look at the Decepticons, a fighter jet or some twat truck? Villains all day.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 31, 2021, 12:30:24 AM
Heroes might always win in Hollywood, but in football (soccer, if they prefer) the utter bastards usually win.

They could probably guarantee success if they call the club Las Vegas Massive Dickheads.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 08, 2021, 06:08:52 PM
I have no idea whether this info is credible, or even anything to worry about if it is. Here it is though.
https://twitter.com/ClubKonsa/status/1435628197551423494
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on September 08, 2021, 06:24:11 PM
I would be astounded if our gazillionaire owners, who've been happy to put loads of cash in to the club as equity so far, would let us get into cashflow difficulties.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 08, 2021, 07:02:19 PM
There are no new charges registered at Co House which I would normally expect if true.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on September 08, 2021, 07:06:07 PM
There are no new charges registered at Co House which I would normally expect if true.

There are, here:

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-live.ch.gov.uk/docs/DtaD6A6BoBkL1YagHBw8VBvsZwAvJMTIfz6ApF2WLXs/application-pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAWRGBDBV3MOFNKP5M%2F20210908%2Feu-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20210908T180558Z&X-Amz-Expires=60&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEFwaCWV1LXdlc3QtMiJGMEQCIGKxtvSoeWmfYYUVjlvqcz3j6IqusfjqiKJrOy7tuoFsAiAuOQcbYaPn23NXqXTiaWgXGzoP0Fs84OCbFLMVIuT7xSqDBAil%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F8BEAMaDDQ0OTIyOTAzMjgyMiIM2czE1Z9T735i0rWxKtcDAbqrvmmoU05D0Y3ZVJMlZ8MR4jrQESdyD01DLYMsJbQVm5YZkpZwEMi3dAAYs7O5RzeahTRSTfvZn%2BG1%2FSZs4ft7FBKGwwiUl3X%2FjBd4ETNQC6u9fNVISOMvFQO%2B4dat2DFGRIr0QBZ1zug0Txwi%2Bl5h3QRIFDAiaMtcalPlm9S6JlbOsNVBifbWfZqiKKqn%2FQuij1SYJNnGmwBi8SS6MBCFAlTGETJruO%2FlILZ22uFznBuP3HvJubnDOP6gH2iN015RkcCM22HOfnzG25SQ%2FMvakBdjXwJXSHVJBM3tWXsjjdt3QDHKSHH9nzov9EuPMWU3zpv9nKsJEi7X5A6iGOb%2BoxsiXzdduP0c6ZH4JW3rF23vUMzKtw%2BpZAlE%2FglLiAdtFqerb%2FHEEUnbGZPxZ8STgLQ%2FsCAh8ePp3mwGV83anXmW9AQtvmb%2BMjXpRUgdOvN6YLrNlzvXxV5YNBgO%2FHTCr6OGNWo5BzhAODgIJiEvjUxx1lkmOpsBagjR%2BvuaMCWGRvsZwmG7P1Iechfv%2FM3Hsawdjpbqarj0qPXc5v7RxMEdy9jRPdtgYnnI%2F5RPv163Rrhno05mJJxCGV4PrkCpuyRsjbu4lnKchpJD0jJvrfgwTpt9MLjK4okGOqYB%2FYtvdJ7MtpAhATKnYD%2Fk8ty3cR5TIRDj1EM2ISmQLKoq5104NFjx%2FDa2ACOcCo3oURVWr%2BIbdE%2B1%2FJWuQ6kccFzbk3D2CnupwTQnf8k3L1kemOeAfBhpwXbW%2Fr5%2FtLwVVRD0pczS1nJp%2FGkm%2BdbtEITqbYORnQf7FFrXVbpwrk7P0DFPYAwHdAuk4cS5QzgHgPJRQKJApwAS82jaaSZiI8Wwfct6iA%3D%3D&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D%2203375789_mr01_2021-09-08.pdf%22&X-Amz-Signature=53f3da68f4aed587b7719305f1e4a87339ac8a6ddcab16d3d0d15260138d9e19
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: N'ZMAV on September 08, 2021, 07:07:22 PM
This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below.
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Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on September 08, 2021, 07:08:17 PM
Without knowing anything else about the circumstances, it's not worth worrying about. We're the only club with little or no debt. With borrowing being so cheap at the moment, the owners probably think it's easier if the club borrows a relatively small amount instead of them putting in the cash again.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on September 08, 2021, 07:48:49 PM
My guess is that this is funding for the mooted  inner city academy? Has work on this started yet?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 08, 2021, 08:01:01 PM
I couldn’t read that document Martin is it in another format?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Beard82 on September 08, 2021, 08:39:52 PM
Its for the money to buy Joe back in the summer when hes grown up, got his bling, and decided he wants to do it properly this time
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on September 08, 2021, 09:14:54 PM
Not working for me now either!

Try this - the charge is at the top. https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03375789/filing-history
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 08, 2021, 09:20:06 PM
Thanks.  True then.  Banking on us staying up at least.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on September 08, 2021, 09:23:58 PM
Was that guy on Villatalk claiming Edens was becoming disinterested, talking baloney ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on September 08, 2021, 09:27:33 PM
More than likely.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on September 08, 2021, 09:47:03 PM
That’s long and I start work in ten minutes. Have we borrowed some money?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 08, 2021, 10:19:04 PM
Yes
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on September 08, 2021, 10:38:44 PM
It's a £45m overdraft secured on the Premier League money at the end of the season.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 08, 2021, 10:43:25 PM
I don't understand it, but I don't like the sound of it. We weren't doing this when we were spending loads of money, we are doing it now we've stopped spending money.

It could be nothing, but I just worry that whenever we get close to challenging the combined forces of darkness unite to make everything turn to shit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on September 08, 2021, 10:49:48 PM
I'd suggest it's FFP maneuvering. We may well be at the limit of how much equity the owners can exchange debt for.

What a ludicrous load of bollocks FFP is generally.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on September 08, 2021, 10:53:01 PM
I'd suggest it's FFP maneuvering.

I can't see that it's got anything to do with FFP really. The only effect on profit would be any interest charge on the overdraft.

Might just be as simple as wanting some working capital at a very low rate of interest so they don't have to keep sending cash over. We had no borrowings before, £45m isn't really very much in the grand scheme of things.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on September 08, 2021, 10:55:10 PM
My main concern is that we're accepting of the word 'disinterested' when we mean 'uninterested'.

But in all seriousness, if NSWE were to look at selling now, would they recoup their investment? If they'd purchased us as a Championship club for half a Grealish, invested nothing, and were now looking to sell us as an established PL club, okay. 

But it seems a pretty stupid move to me. With the way the game is going, if we become regularly top 6-8 (and I don't think it'll take much to get there) we'll be a club worth £800m-£1bn within five years.

Do serious investors get involved in football for short term profit anymore?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on September 08, 2021, 10:57:01 PM
No fair enough, I defer to your superior knowledge of these things. I just thought there was only so much an owner could pump in and seeing as we've not been racking up debt, this change of face might be linked to that.

I agree I don't think there's anything particularly worrisome about an overdraft. A lien has to be put on something, just in case. A number of clubs do the same thing.

Important we have another 17 40,000+ attendances and beef up that commercial revenue to start competing.

Probably why Deano may not survive the season unless progress takes place.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on September 08, 2021, 11:00:26 PM
My main concern is that we're accepting of the word 'disinterested' when we mean 'uninterested'.

But in all seriousness, if NSWE were to look at selling now, would they recoup their investment? If they'd purchased us as a Championship club for half a Grealish, invested nothing, and were now looking to sell us as an established PL club, okay. 

But it seems a pretty stupid move to me. With the way the game is going, if we become regularly top 6-8 (and I don't think it'll take much to get there) we'll be a club worth £800m-£1bn within five years.

Do serious investors get involved in football for short term profit anymore?

I think we need to break this Brummie mentality that pain is always imminent. We're ultimately a small business in both of their portfolios. We seem expensive from our side of the fence, but it isn't like Lerner where he's spending his sisters money too or Xia where he's a front. These are insanely wealthy chaps and we are their prestige toy. The club in Vegas, the way they celebrate when they're at VP. They're balls deep in this thing of ours.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on September 08, 2021, 11:01:12 PM
My sketchy and out of date understanding is that you're allowed to exceed the loss threshold by a certain amount if your owners put in cash in exchange for shares. So if we've exceeded that, then taking a loan wouldn't really help I don't think. In any case, you'd have thought the sale of Greasy would have sorted out FFP in one go.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on September 08, 2021, 11:11:14 PM
That's true. Debt is cheap at the moment and we actually do have some income with probably close to 15m in season ticket sales, Grealish cash which must be £25 million and likely a couple million from the Newcastle/Brentford games. If we were going to have cash flow problems, it would surely have been last year.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on September 08, 2021, 11:11:57 PM
It's a £45m overdraft secured on the Premier League money at the end of the season.

Cheers Riss.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on September 08, 2021, 11:12:00 PM
My main concern is that we're accepting of the word 'disinterested' when we mean 'uninterested'.

But in all seriousness, if NSWE were to look at selling now, would they recoup their investment? If they'd purchased us as a Championship club for half a Grealish, invested nothing, and were now looking to sell us as an established PL club, okay. 

But it seems a pretty stupid move to me. With the way the game is going, if we become regularly top 6-8 (and I don't think it'll take much to get there) we'll be a club worth £800m-£1bn within five years.

Do serious investors get involved in football for short term profit anymore?

I think we need to break this Brummie mentality that pain is always imminent. We're ultimately a small business in both of their portfolios. We seem expensive from our side of the fence, but it isn't like Lerner where he's spending his sisters money too or Xia where he's a front. These are insanely wealthy chaps and we are their prestige toy. The club in Vegas, the way they celebrate when they're at VP. They're balls deep in this thing of ours.

I like to think so too. I don't know the first thing about business, but this strikes me as an opportunity for a prestige investment for them.

We're effectively starting from nothing: we have a unique name (not City or United or whatever), unique colours, a rich yet untapped history, and given the lack of any decent rivals, have the opportunity to soak up fans from a 100-mile radius.

I think you're right that as Brummies we see doom and gloom around every corner. But I think if you look at it from the perspective of a long term investment and branding opportunity, we are fucking outstanding.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: BC54 VFC on September 08, 2021, 11:27:42 PM
It is a fixed charge, rather than a floating charge, to obviate the Rule in Clayton's Case (1816) applying, noting that it secures an overdraft (of £45m) rather than a loan.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 08, 2021, 11:35:10 PM
What we really need to do is reverse the situation whereby despite being a member of what is effectively a club generating a fountain of money for most of the last 30 years, we have failed to significantly grow our commercial income over that time.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mike on September 09, 2021, 12:06:07 AM
My main concern is that we're accepting of the word 'disinterested' when we mean 'uninterested'.

But in all seriousness, if NSWE were to look at selling now, would they recoup their investment? If they'd purchased us as a Championship club for half a Grealish, invested nothing, and were now looking to sell us as an established PL club, okay. 

But it seems a pretty stupid move to me. With the way the game is going, if we become regularly top 6-8 (and I don't think it'll take much to get there) we'll be a club worth £800m-£1bn within five years.

Do serious investors get involved in football for short term profit anymore?

I think we need to break this Brummie mentality that pain is always imminent. We're ultimately a small business in both of their portfolios. We seem expensive from our side of the fence, but it isn't like Lerner where he's spending his sisters money too or Xia where he's a front. These are insanely wealthy chaps and we are their prestige toy. The club in Vegas, the way they celebrate when they're at VP. They're balls deep in this thing of ours.

You say that, but have either of them got a Villa tattoo on their leg...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Scott Nielsen on September 09, 2021, 04:00:26 AM
I don't understand it, but I don't like the sound of it. We weren't doing this when we were spending loads of money, we are doing it now we've stopped spending money.

Same. Whether they have lost interest or, more likely, are pursuing a new strategy it does feel like something material has changed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 09, 2021, 05:31:22 AM
It is possible that despite the Idiots transfer that more cash has gone out than come in subject to the payment terms on the transfers we have made.
Borrowing as I understand it has no impact on FFP except for the interest which is an expense.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: JD on September 09, 2021, 08:27:46 AM
It's a £45m overdraft secured on the Premier League money at the end of the season.

Cheers Riss.

I thought it was a loan to buy the 1 share I still think I own...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 09, 2021, 10:23:44 AM
My main concern is that we're accepting of the word 'disinterested' when we mean 'uninterested'.

But in all seriousness, if NSWE were to look at selling now, would they recoup their investment? If they'd purchased us as a Championship club for half a Grealish, invested nothing, and were now looking to sell us as an established PL club, okay. 

But it seems a pretty stupid move to me. With the way the game is going, if we become regularly top 6-8 (and I don't think it'll take much to get there) we'll be a club worth £800m-£1bn within five years.

Do serious investors get involved in football for short term profit anymore?

I think we need to break this Brummie mentality that pain is always imminent. We're ultimately a small business in both of their portfolios. We seem expensive from our side of the fence, but it isn't like Lerner where he's spending his sisters money too or Xia where he's a front. These are insanely wealthy chaps and we are their prestige toy. The club in Vegas, the way they celebrate when they're at VP. They're balls deep in this thing of ours.

I'm not a Brummie, but I always assume that pain is always imminent. Because it always fucking is. I need to stop going to that dentist.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 09, 2021, 11:03:28 AM
My main concern is that we're accepting of the word 'disinterested' when we mean 'uninterested'.


I'm not. Its users are marked in my revolution notebook alongside the of-havers.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on September 09, 2021, 11:08:16 AM
My main concern is that we're accepting of the word 'disinterested' when we mean 'uninterested'.


I'm not. Its users are marked in my revolution notebook alongside the of-havers.

Room for the there/they're/their crew?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mike on September 09, 2021, 11:29:18 AM
My main concern is that we're accepting of the word 'disinterested' when we mean 'uninterested'.

But in all seriousness, if NSWE were to look at selling now, would they recoup their investment? If they'd purchased us as a Championship club for half a Grealish, invested nothing, and were now looking to sell us as an established PL club, okay. 

But it seems a pretty stupid move to me. With the way the game is going, if we become regularly top 6-8 (and I don't think it'll take much to get there) we'll be a club worth £800m-£1bn within five years.

Do serious investors get involved in football for short term profit anymore?

I think we need to break this Brummie mentality that pain is always imminent. We're ultimately a small business in both of their portfolios. We seem expensive from our side of the fence, but it isn't like Lerner where he's spending his sisters money too or Xia where he's a front. These are insanely wealthy chaps and we are their prestige toy. The club in Vegas, the way they celebrate when they're at VP. They're balls deep in this thing of ours.

I'm not a Brummie, but I always assume that pain is always imminent. Because it always fucking is. I need to stop going to that dentist.

Have you researched your family history because I strongly suspect you have some Birmingham ancestry in your DNA. My mom's dad believed himself to be pure Black Country but if you go back a generation he was from Aston so she is a pure bred glass half empty Brummie. My dad's side are from Nottingham and they're a miserable lot too, but maybe because they've lived in Birmingham most of their lives. The only cheery member of my family is my uncle who worked at Leyland and supports the Dark Side (so I suppose he has to have a sense of humour.)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 09, 2021, 11:49:21 AM
My family history is all Irish. My brother did one of those DNA tests to see what his ancient history was. He's (relatively) dark-skinned with brown eyes (the rest of us are pale with blue eyes) so he thought he might have some Spanish or even Middle-Eastern heritage. Irish. All Irish.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on September 09, 2021, 12:01:41 PM
Mike…….that’s almost poetic.

‘Pure bred, glass half empty Brummie’.

The perfect description for us.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on September 09, 2021, 12:04:14 PM
My family history is all Irish. My brother did one of those DNA tests to see what his ancient history was. He's (relatively) dark-skinned with brown eyes (the rest of us are pale with blue eyes) so he thought he might have some Spanish or even Middle-Eastern heritage. Irish. All Irish.
There is a school of thought that some settlers in early history may have made their way to Ireland by boat via Southern Spain avoiding the land route .
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on September 09, 2021, 12:36:55 PM
My main concern is that we're accepting of the word 'disinterested' when we mean 'uninterested'.


I'm not. Its users are marked in my revolution notebook alongside the of-havers.

Room for the there/they're/their crew?

They're behind the your/you're morons!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 09, 2021, 12:49:06 PM
My family history is all Irish. My brother did one of those DNA tests to see what his ancient history was. He's (relatively) dark-skinned with brown eyes (the rest of us are pale with blue eyes) so he thought he might have some Spanish or even Middle-Eastern heritage. Irish. All Irish.
There is a school of thought that some settlers in early history may have made their way to Ireland by boat via Southern Spain avoiding the land route .

I've heard that but somebody told me it was a myth. I personally have no idea.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Monty on September 09, 2021, 12:56:43 PM
One of the oldest myths is that Ireland was populated by actual Iberians fleeing the peninsula for varying reasons.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on September 09, 2021, 01:01:29 PM
Wasn't there a good few Spanish sailors washed up after the Armada got blown slightly off course?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on September 09, 2021, 01:02:43 PM
Well if they did, they stayed clear of my ancestors, as my skin pigmentation and ability to tan confirms. Mine came from the ice planet Hoth, I think.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 09, 2021, 01:03:43 PM
My main concern is that we're accepting of the word 'disinterested' when we mean 'uninterested'.

Ha, that annoys me too.

See also 'journeyman' used incorrectly to describe a player who has played for lots of clubs.

And don't even get me started on the American use of 'momentarily'.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 09, 2021, 01:05:17 PM
Currently expecting BE to ask me my opinion on starting a sentence with 'And'.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mike on September 09, 2021, 01:07:54 PM
My family history is all Irish. My brother did one of those DNA tests to see what his ancient history was. He's (relatively) dark-skinned with brown eyes (the rest of us are pale with blue eyes) so he thought he might have some Spanish or even Middle-Eastern heritage. Irish. All Irish.

Ah OK. You are just a miserable git then. My dad's great grandparents moved to Nottingham from Ireland. Absolutely failed to find out anything about them. I don't know whether it's because their names get spelt wildly differently on the few records I can find, they have reasonably common names and they have no dates of birth or because the lives of poor Irish people didn't get recorded in any meaningful way back then. It could also be because I'm rubbish at looking. Shame, as it would be interesting to find out about their life in Ireland.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on September 09, 2021, 01:10:15 PM
My family history is all Irish. My brother did one of those DNA tests to see what his ancient history was. He's (relatively) dark-skinned with brown eyes (the rest of us are pale with blue eyes) so he thought he might have some Spanish or even Middle-Eastern heritage. Irish. All Irish.

Ah OK. You are just a miserable git then. My dad's great grandparents moved to Nottingham from Ireland. Absolutely failed to find out anything about them. I don't know whether it's because their names get spelt wildly differently on the few records I can find, they have reasonably common names and they have no dates of birth or because the lives of poor Irish people didn't get recorded in any meaningful way back then. It could also be because I'm rubbish at looking. Shame, as it would be interesting to find out about their life in Ireland.

My surname seems to be open to interpretation, as we found when burying my grandad back in Newry.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on September 09, 2021, 01:19:15 PM
We're from Viking stock who settled(sic) in Ireland.Our surname translates as dark-browded or swarthy. Run out of the north for sheep stealing and settled in Roscommon.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on September 09, 2021, 01:43:02 PM
To steal a Tim Vine joke, I'm Caucasian.

My mother's from an Irish city and my dad's Japanese!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Astral Weeks on September 09, 2021, 02:39:06 PM
My main concern is that we're accepting of the word 'disinterested' when we mean 'uninterested'.

Ha, that annoys me too.

See also 'journeyman' used incorrectly to describe a player who has played for lots of clubs.

And don't even get me started on the American use of 'momentarily'.

As in, "We will be landing at London Heathrow momentarily"?
Oh aye, where are we off to then, because I was rather hoping to get off!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on September 09, 2021, 02:46:26 PM
Wasn't there a good few Spanish sailors washed up after the Armada got blown slightly off course?
Definitely. A lot of the Spanish ships were scattered by a combination of the Navy and bad weather. Many were completely lost and had run out of supplies so run aground all round the British Isles. A lot of them ended up in Ireland and decided to settle down partly down to it being another Catholic country. At least that's what my history teacher taught us. Been quite a while now though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Border villan on September 09, 2021, 02:57:14 PM
In Kinsale, Co. Cork  on the way out to Summercove. there is a pub called The Spaniard.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dekko on September 09, 2021, 04:53:04 PM
My family history is all Irish. My brother did one of those DNA tests to see what his ancient history was. He's (relatively) dark-skinned with brown eyes (the rest of us are pale with blue eyes) so he thought he might have some Spanish or even Middle-Eastern heritage. Irish. All Irish.

Ah OK. You are just a miserable git then. My dad's great grandparents moved to Nottingham from Ireland. Absolutely failed to find out anything about them. I don't know whether it's because their names get spelt wildly differently on the few records I can find, they have reasonably common names and they have no dates of birth or because the lives of poor Irish people didn't get recorded in any meaningful way back then. It could also be because I'm rubbish at looking. Shame, as it would be interesting to find out about their life in Ireland.

There'll be some of this, but one of the big ones is that a huge % of Irish birth certificates, census data, legal docs etc were lost when the Public Records Office was burnt down during the Civil War.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on September 09, 2021, 05:12:22 PM
I watched a BBC documentary which had traced back DNA to point at the Beaker People as being most of our ancestry (rather than the rather nebulous attribution to Celts being the true Brits). They then traced the Beaker People, originating in the southern part of Russia and Ukraine (Crimes).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on September 09, 2021, 05:30:37 PM
Bloody Beaker people.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on September 09, 2021, 05:54:10 PM
Another Interesting Account (https://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/black-irish-spanish-armada)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smoke on September 09, 2021, 05:55:41 PM
Bloody Beaker people.

That's the thin tall whiny ones with the spikey orange hair, right?

Not the fat, bald know it all?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 09, 2021, 06:07:06 PM
Bloody Beaker people.

Nobody asked me if I wanted a Big Bang.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on September 09, 2021, 06:11:02 PM
Wasn't there a good few Spanish sailors washed up after the Armada got blown slightly off course?

Legend has it that a Spanish galleon from the Armada ended up on some rocks off the coast of the Isle of Man (at a place called Spanish Head) and the first Manx Cat came from that ship. Probably bollocks but it's a good story.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on September 09, 2021, 06:19:23 PM
Bloody Beaker people.

Tracy's alright though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on September 09, 2021, 06:37:36 PM
My family history is all Irish. My brother did one of those DNA tests to see what his ancient history was. He's (relatively) dark-skinned with brown eyes (the rest of us are pale with blue eyes) so he thought he might have some Spanish or even Middle-Eastern heritage. Irish. All Irish.

My Dad got one of those DNA tests for his 80th. It came back 96% Irish, 3% Eastern European, 1% Basque but given our family's lived in the same spot in Roscommon since the 1600s I didn't expect anything too exotic.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: saunders_heroes on September 09, 2021, 06:55:46 PM
My family history is all Irish. My brother did one of those DNA tests to see what his ancient history was. He's (relatively) dark-skinned with brown eyes (the rest of us are pale with blue eyes) so he thought he might have some Spanish or even Middle-Eastern heritage. Irish. All Irish.

Ah OK. You are just a miserable git then. My dad's great grandparents moved to Nottingham from Ireland. Absolutely failed to find out anything about them. I don't know whether it's because their names get spelt wildly differently on the few records I can find, they have reasonably common names and they have no dates of birth or because the lives of poor Irish people didn't get recorded in any meaningful way back then. It could also be because I'm rubbish at looking. Shame, as it would be interesting to find out about their life in Ireland.

Get yourself a DNA test. It will link you with relatives in Ireland and around the world and you’re bound to find out about your family background. It costs £79 I think.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aev on September 09, 2021, 07:05:31 PM
I am sure there was some Radio 4 thing years back that basically refuted all of these DNA tests.

From memory I think it was because the databases at the time were too vague (possibly).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on September 09, 2021, 07:34:31 PM
My family history is all Irish. My brother did one of those DNA tests to see what his ancient history was. He's (relatively) dark-skinned with brown eyes (the rest of us are pale with blue eyes) so he thought he might have some Spanish or even Middle-Eastern heritage. Irish. All Irish.

My Dad got one of those DNA tests for his 80th. It came back 96% Irish, 3% Eastern European, 1% Basque but given our family's lived in the same spot in Roscommon since the 1600s I didn't expect anything too exotic.

By brother-in-law from Dublin was mildly put out to say the least when his came back with less Irish DNA than his wife, who is from Bolton.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on September 09, 2021, 07:42:42 PM
My brother-in-law did one of those DNA test thingy's, it came back with ambiguous links to all over the place which we all felt was a bit odd...the feckers have hardly ever left the village!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on September 09, 2021, 08:08:50 PM
I keep clicking on here expecting some breaking news about Wes and / or Nas ...

... oh, and despite my name, I have no Welsh in me; as far as I can discern from 200 years of family tree!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on September 10, 2021, 12:06:47 AM
I am sure there was some Radio 4 thing years back that basically refuted all of these DNA tests.

From memory I think it was because the databases at the time were too vague (possibly).

Yep, it's largely bollocks, sadly. Due to migration and interbreeding in Eurasia, unless you're of largely African, Indigenous American or Indigenous Australiasian, it's all quite ham-fisted.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 10, 2021, 12:25:40 AM
I am sure there was some Radio 4 thing years back that basically refuted all of these DNA tests.

From memory I think it was because the databases at the time were too vague (possibly).

Yep, it's largely bollocks, sadly. Due to migration and interbreeding in Eurasia, unless you're of largely African, Indigenous American or Indigenous Australiasian, it's all quite ham-fisted.

I think you underestimate the effects of being ham-fisted! He stilll hasn't recovered.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on September 10, 2021, 08:51:54 AM
I am sure there was some Radio 4 thing years back that basically refuted all of these DNA tests.

From memory I think it was because the databases at the time were too vague (possibly).

Yep, it's largely bollocks, sadly. Due to migration and interbreeding in Eurasia, unless you're of largely African, Indigenous American or Indigenous Australiasian, it's all quite ham-fisted.

I think you underestimate the effects of being ham-fisted! He stilll hasn't recovered.

Haha, yes, I don't know what was wrong with the old swab test.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: saunders_heroes on September 10, 2021, 09:19:31 AM
I am sure there was some Radio 4 thing years back that basically refuted all of these DNA tests.

From memory I think it was because the databases at the time were too vague (possibly).

There’s got to be some truth in them because it linked me with cousins in Ireland and the US that I know I’m related to.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aev on September 10, 2021, 09:30:30 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05vy4kb

It may have been this - it is over 5 years old now so perhaps the databases have improved and hence become more instructive.

Apologies, it is the below from 2018

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p05z4m57
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on September 10, 2021, 09:32:09 AM
I am sure there was some Radio 4 thing years back that basically refuted all of these DNA tests.

From memory I think it was because the databases at the time were too vague (possibly).

There’s got to be some truth in them because it linked me with cousins in Ireland and the US that I know I’m related to.

Yeah they're effective up to a point, but the whole 'you are 13.2% Viking, 3% Spanish, 41.7% Klingon' is balls, according to my brother-in-law who is a biochemist. So they can trace 3 or 4 generations back, and give you an approximation of your 'origin' based on geographical probability. That's my understanding anyway.

Ancestry and stuff is a different matter, of course, because they're based on archives.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Smith on September 10, 2021, 09:43:56 AM
I am sure there was some Radio 4 thing years back that basically refuted all of these DNA tests.

From memory I think it was because the databases at the time were too vague (possibly).

There’s got to be some truth in them because it linked me with cousins in Ireland and the US that I know I’m related to.

Yeah they're effective up to a point, but the whole 'you are 13.2% Viking, 3% Spanish, 41.7% Klingon' is balls, according to my brother-in-law who is a biochemist. So they can trace 3 or 4 generations back, and give you an approximation of your 'origin' based on geographical probability. That's my understanding anyway.

Ancestry and stuff is a different matter, of course, because they're based on archives.

I was told that the ethnicity suggestions use an algorithm to compare your results against a database to draw up a best estimate of your heritage and that they’re probably accurate to a continental level but anything more exact is less certain.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on September 10, 2021, 09:54:17 AM
Yep, sounds about right, they can trace certain DNA which suggest you have ancestors from an area but it's not 100%. That said, someone bought a kit for my parents a couple of years ago and becuase of 1 of the markers that came up we managed to fill a gap in the ancestry chart we'd been trying to do and we got it back to about the 1500s in the end having been stuck in the 1800s before, was all because my dad had some germanic markers that we never expected.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 10, 2021, 10:19:13 AM
The Ancestry DNA stuff is useful if you're really researching your tree - it has helped me out with a few things where I had doubt, and confirmed a few things where I'd taken an educated guess.

I also had someone approach me who was trying to find who a relative's father was, which he solved using some stuff in my tree, some geographical locations, and some DNA links that I shared with her. She'd basically lived 75 years with no idea who her father was and managed to find out thanks to DNA testing.

The 'you are 10% martian' stuff is really just a gimmick though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on September 10, 2021, 11:10:29 AM
Yeah that's the thing, it's useful as one tool of many. It's just that I've had enough people bore me to tears about how their results have made them want to 'reconnect with their 1.5% Greek roots' or whatever.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on September 10, 2021, 11:24:12 AM
Yeah that's the thing, it's useful as one tool of many. It's just that I've had enough people bore me to tears about how their results have made them want to 'reconnect with their 1.5% Greek roots' or whatever.

Tell them can do it like everyone else, on a Friday at about 11 o'clock after 8 pints. With all the salad, lemon and chilli (none of that mayo that looks like jizz though).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on September 10, 2021, 12:05:28 PM
So...back on topic....Wes and Nas - is there any far away, unexpected ancestry in our two leaders?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Border villan on September 10, 2021, 03:44:43 PM
So...back on topic....Wes and Nas - is there any far away, unexpected ancestry in our two leaders?

Dead certain that if Wes had any political ambitions in the USA then Irish heritage would be immediately uncovered.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on September 10, 2021, 06:48:33 PM
So...back on topic....Wes and Nas - is there any far away, unexpected ancestry in our two leaders?

Dead certain that if Wes had any political ambitions in the USA then Irish heritage would be immediately uncovered.

Very true, Barack O'Bama traced his roots back to Moneygall in County Offaly. Don't think Trump did but his heritage was Scottish.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on September 10, 2021, 07:35:45 PM
So...back on topic....Wes and Nas - is there any far away, unexpected ancestry in our two leaders?

Dead certain that if Wes had any political ambitions in the USA then Irish heritage would be immediately uncovered.

Very true, Barack O'Bama traced his roots back to Moneygall in County Offaly. Don't think Trump did but his heritage was Scottish.

Heritage makes it seem further back than it was, Trump's mum was Scottish.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on September 10, 2021, 07:53:18 PM
Dead certain that if Wes had any political ambitions in the USA then Irish heritage would be immediately uncovered.

Very true, Barack O'Bama traced his roots back to Moneygall in County Offaly. Don't think Trump did but his heritage was Scottish.

Heritage makes it seem further back than it was, Trump's mum was Scottish.

I know, I only put in 'heritage' as (the other) BV used it.

Probably easier to refer to him as the Scottish President. ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 10, 2021, 07:53:35 PM
We've been trying to keep that a secret. 😡
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on September 10, 2021, 07:58:55 PM
We've been trying to keep that a secret. 😡

The orange hair was a giveaway as were his sophisticated seduction techniques when it comes to the fairer sex.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on October 08, 2021, 10:30:11 PM
According to The Guardian and a few other sources, the owners of nineteen Premier League clubs are not happy at all about the Newcastle takeover. I've been wondering since the Newcastle news what impact their takeover would have on NSWE?  Will they look to stick to their Grand Plan or will they adapt and change their approach and set new targets for the short, medium and long terms?   

Personally I've always thought they'd look to sell on a share of the Club once they had established Villa in the top flight again, so  I now find myself wondering whether the Newcastle takeover would speed up such a process?  Not only has Newcastle's future been altered by the arrival of the PIF into Premier League football, nineteen other clubs' futures are about the be transformed significantly, I feel.  As Gerard Houllier remarked about our unfit footballers, back in the day, at moments of reckoning like this, successful people recognise they have to adapt...or die.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on October 08, 2021, 10:46:25 PM
When the oil rich slave operators came in and took control of Man city it had a fundamental impact on Lerner's ambitions at Villa park. He realised that the game was up and money  required to compete at the highest level was out of his reach.  Let's hope the same doesn't happen to NSWE and we go back to square one.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richtheholtender on October 08, 2021, 11:50:05 PM
I am struggling to see how this Newcastle takeover can work. Certainly to the levels of dominance city have anyway. When city got took over, there was literally only united & Chelsea that would be deemed unreachable, hence Lerner desire to chase champions league. Now there's about 8 clubs chasing it at least. Then there's the FFP thing, how on earth there going to generate their own funding by a successful brand I don't know because with the greatest of respect they're a big club in Newcastle. They can spend £500 million the next 6 windows but at some point with rules as they are they will have to claw it back. They last point and for me is a significant one that sort of ties in with the 8 clubs now going fir champions league is that Newcastle maybe worth £300 billion but they will still only sign players in the £60- £100 million price bracket and that's being extreme. That's nothing to owners such as ours, Everton so while they might be stinky rich clubs can afford to turn down the offers made for players. See how city have struggled to get kane, spurs and the rest can afford to say no.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on October 09, 2021, 12:03:08 AM
When the oil rich slave operators came in and took control of Man city it had a fundamental impact on Lerner's ambitions at Villa park. He realised that the game was up and money  required to compete at the highest level was out of his reach.  Let's hope the same doesn't happen to NSWE and we go back to square one.

Yes, we have kind of been here before. Lerner failed to reassess his initial strategy meaningfully which, in turn, meant  he had no credible plan to adapt to the very changed landscape, setting in motion a chain of events that very nearly killed our Club.  If NSWE want to rebuild a successful Villa, whilst broadly sticking to their plan, I think they will need to seek additional investors to join them. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on October 09, 2021, 12:10:54 AM
I am struggling to see how this Newcastle takeover can work. Certainly to the levels of dominance city have anyway. When city got took over, there was literally only united & Chelsea that would be deemed unreachable, hence Lerner desire to chase champions league. Now there's about 8 clubs chasing it at least. Then there's the FFP thing, how on earth there going to generate their own funding by a successful brand I don't know because with the greatest of respect they're a big club in Newcastle. They can spend £500 million the next 6 windows but at some point with rules as they are they will have to claw it back. They last point and for me is a significant one that sort of ties in with the 8 clubs now going fir champions league is that Newcastle maybe worth £300 billion but they will still only sign players in the £60- £100 million price bracket and that's being extreme. That's nothing to owners such as ours, Everton so while they might be stinky rich clubs can afford to turn down the offers made for players. See how city have struggled to get kane, spurs and the rest can afford to say no.

Yep, FFP will be key.  If Newcastle's owners somehow circumvent it, however, there will be serious fallout.  Out of all the owners in the Premier League, I think the Newcastle takeover impacts Man City's the most and  I would imagine a lot of their short, medium and long-term planning will be dramatically re-assessed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 09, 2021, 06:25:14 AM
Lerner was playing with his family's money, which his family had a say in. He was also fucked by the financial crash and then further hobbled by his divorce. I'd imagine that Man City were a middling concern.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on October 09, 2021, 07:24:59 AM
Absolutely Paddy.  Plus he did not "get" football or football fans, witness his outpouring of delight at receiving a letter from Alex Ferguson.  The double whammy that came very close to destroying us was Lerner's replacement by another, even more disconnected comparatively impoverished foolish football virgin Tony Cardboard Belt Xia.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on October 09, 2021, 07:40:01 AM
Lerner was playing with his family's money, which his family had a say in. He was also fucked by the financial crash and then further hobbled by his divorce. I'd imagine that Man City were a middling concern.

Exactly. I believe his sister cleared her throat and asked what the fuck he was doing with all our money. And that was the end of that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: steamer on October 09, 2021, 07:58:08 AM
Not sure the Big six will be crapping themselves
They already scout and buy the best talent available at whatever price
having another team bid, so what you still need a manager a backroom team a scouting network and a bunch of players that  gell together as world beaters.
They may be bidding for players we want in the future, so what
I think that our policy of attracting the best young players  will pay dividends
Another factor to be aware of but I can not see too many teams changing their strategy because of it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on October 09, 2021, 08:37:52 AM
FFP was designed to maintain the competitive order of things - keep the richest club's rich and stop anymore Ambramovic's from breaking in.

Newcastle aren't going to be winning anything any time soon. The way our owners are going about it, buying young and (relatively) cheap and selling high is the only way to break in. But it takes time.

And as has been pointed out - Newcastle are big in Newcastle. They're always going to have the challenge of driving their commercial revenue up to the levels of the rich 4/6.  Despite winning fuck all, Spurs have the advantage of being in London where all the gazillionaires live. You're not going to get many gazillionaires moving to Newcastle!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on October 09, 2021, 08:59:41 AM
Probably more worrying for the likes of  Leicester, Everton Spurs and Arsenal than the big4 i'd say in the short term. Maybe us I guess.. None of the big 4 get their own way with bringing in players and lose out to each other. Will need a good 5-10years of consistently challenging/winning the pl/appearing in the CL before they can attract the top players with brand recognition and persuade them  to travel to the "back of beyond". I'm not sure ManCity can even attract those sort of players yet.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on October 09, 2021, 09:22:23 AM
When the oil rich slave operators came in and took control of Man city it had a fundamental impact on Lerner's ambitions at Villa park. He realised that the game was up and money  required to compete at the highest level was out of his reach.  Let's hope the same doesn't happen to NSWE and we go back to square one.

I personally I think it had more to do with bad manager choices and MON’s behaviour that made him lose interest
but I’m only surmising obviously
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on October 09, 2021, 10:09:08 AM
Lerner was a combination of the monetary issues highlighted by others (divorce, family trust, loss of cash etc) and the fact that he had a manager who spent a fair bit of money on a defence one year (eg Cuellar, Davies and Shorey) decided they were all mostly shit, so replaced them all next year (Warnock, Collins and Dunne). He was therefore in a position that he couldn't really afford it any more, and had a manager he didn't trust who wasn't going to advance past 6th place, but who still retained a Brian Clough God complex. All of the good players like Young and Milner realised it too, so that was the beginning of the end.

It was just a shame for us at the time that Lerner didn't put the club up for sale there and then, rather than trying to keep at it for another 4-5 years before selling to Shitty Shoe Bastard Tony X.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Border villan on October 09, 2021, 12:13:02 PM
Lerner was a combination of the monetary issues highlighted by others (divorce, family trust, loss of cash etc) and the fact that he had a manager who spent a fair bit of money on a defence one year (eg Cuellar, Davies and Shorey) decided they were all mostly shit, so replaced them all next year (Warnock, Collins and Dunne). He was therefore in a position that he couldn't really afford it any more, and had a manager he didn't trust who wasn't going to advance past 6th place, but who still retained a Brian Clough God complex. All of the good players like Young and Milner realised it too, so that was the beginning of the end.

It was just a shame for us at the time that Lerner didn't put the club up for sale there and then, rather than trying to keep at it for another 4-5 years before selling to Shitty Shoe Bastard Tony X.

Taking the long view and with hindsight selling to Tony was a blessing in disguise that became apparent just over three years ago.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on October 09, 2021, 12:23:42 PM
I'm intrigued to see with the Saudis specifically target their Qatar 'brothers' - bidding for their players, competing for other potential incomers; and whether that becomes slightly obsessive for them.
Regardless, until they can get into Euro football comps they are - like us - somewhat limited in likely success in hiring the very best.

I notice the Grauniad has reported today that the other 19 clubs in the Prem, are up in arms about the takeover: a tad hypocritical in the case of some, surely?!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on October 09, 2021, 10:14:26 PM
Staverley has gone all Krulak, proclaiming world domination in 5 to 10 years.  Go find a decent manager first.  The Toon army deserve a bit of joy for once but not with those murdering fucks in charge.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Richard E on October 09, 2021, 10:19:19 PM
Staverley has gone all Krulak, proclaiming world domination in 5 to 10 years.  Go find a decent manager first.  The Toon army deserve a bit of joy for once but not with those murdering fucks in charge.

On what basis do they ‘deserve’ anything?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 09, 2021, 10:23:23 PM
Staverley has gone all Krulak, proclaiming world domination in 5 to 10 years.  Go find a decent manager first.  The Toon army deserve a bit of joy for once but not with those murdering fucks in charge.

On what basis do they ‘deserve’ anything?

I was going to ask that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LukeJames on October 09, 2021, 10:27:51 PM
Staverley has gone all Krulak, proclaiming world domination in 5 to 10 years.  Go find a decent manager first.  The Toon army deserve a bit of joy for once but not with those murdering fucks in charge.

On what basis do they ‘deserve’ anything?

I was going to ask that.

A couple of relegations, followed by immediate promotion, mid-table Premier League finishes and only spending £40m on strikers, makes me feel physically sick what these guys have had to go through.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on October 09, 2021, 10:32:36 PM
Staverley has gone all Krulak, proclaiming world domination in 5 to 10 years.  Go find a decent manager first.  The Toon army deserve a bit of joy for once but not with those murdering fucks in charge.

On what basis do they ‘deserve’ anything?
On the same basis as Small Heath deserve to be accepted at the only team representing City of Birmingham.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on October 09, 2021, 10:35:22 PM
Staverley has gone all Krulak, proclaiming world domination in 5 to 10 years.  Go find a decent manager first.  The Toon army deserve a bit of joy for once but not with those murdering fucks in charge.

On what basis do they ‘deserve’ anything?

I was going to ask that.

Because their fans are better and more passionate than any other fans worldwide, for no reason anyone can explain.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aj2k77 on October 10, 2021, 12:33:14 AM
It's like a religion to them, their Catherdral being St James Park and their idol being wor Bobby or King Kev. Plus they're or were everyone's second team. So yeah, I can't wait for Newcastle to win the league!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on October 10, 2021, 12:44:57 AM
Probably more worrying for the likes of  Leicester, Everton Spurs and Arsenal than the big4 i'd say in the short term. Maybe us I guess.. None of the big 4 get their own way with bringing in players and lose out to each other. Will need a good 5-10years of consistently challenging/winning the pl/appearing in the CL before they can attract the top players with brand recognition and persuade them  to travel to the "back of beyond". I'm not sure ManCity can even attract those sort of players yet.
Yeah, I agree there. I think it'll be Arsenal who take the biggest hit. They've already been slowly slipping down the pecking order, and quite realistically could find themselves below ourselves, Spurs, Everton, Newcastle, Leicester, Liverpool, Manc City, Man Utd, and Chelsea. Plus the odd side that finishes a bit higher than expected, West Ham or Leeds or someone similar.

Top half finishes are going to be a struggle for them, let alone qualifying for Europe.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on October 10, 2021, 08:32:24 AM
I'm intrigued to see with the Saudis specifically target their Qatar 'brothers' - bidding for their players, competing for other potential incomers; and whether that becomes slightly obsessive for them.
Regardless, until they can get into Euro football comps they are - like us - somewhat limited in likely success in hiring the very best.

I notice the Grauniad has reported today that the other 19 clubs in the Prem, are up in arms about the takeover: a tad hypocritical in the case of some, surely?!
The hypocrisy of the ‘breakaway’ six is sickening and laughable in equal measures.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 10, 2021, 02:09:40 PM
If Newcastle came in with 100m bids for our players like McGinn ot Martinez would be good business sense to sell.
Beauty we have is that all our players bar wesley are worth considerably more so sell on Value is powerful
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: clash city rocker on October 10, 2021, 02:46:02 PM
The Saudis might have loads of dollar but wont FFP hamper them.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 10, 2021, 03:18:58 PM
The Saudis might have loads of dollar but wont FFP hamper them.

I read they can spend figures around 190m to 205m before FFP?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 10, 2021, 03:24:49 PM
That's barely enough to save them from relegation.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on October 10, 2021, 03:32:01 PM
Maybe they’ll mirror Man City and ignore the FFP rules, then hire better lawyers than the FA and UEFA have.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: RamboandBruno on October 10, 2021, 05:23:48 PM
I have no major dislike for newcastle, but ive always found the media hype around them and what their passionate loyal fanbase deserve, rather bizarre and misplaced. Their a big city club no doubt, but they are also a one city club. If blues and the baggies didnt exist, we would have an extra  40,000 supporters. They’ve essentially won bugger all since a period of cup wins in the 50s and not much before that.
Obviously times are changing for them, but the media fawning is aggravating, to me anyway. I do think it would be very funny if the football Gods, deemed to send Newcastle down before they can properly start spending their oil cash.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on October 10, 2021, 05:29:11 PM
At what point will all the premier league clubs be owned by billionaires? Sort of levels the playing field for everyone.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 10, 2021, 05:33:12 PM
if there's 7 or 8 clubs that are loaded, then it'll be nice to see a few of them fail each season by not reaching the Champions League
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 10, 2021, 05:34:39 PM
if there's 7 or 8 clubs that are loaded, then it'll be nice to see a few of them fail each season by not reaching the Champions League

One or two, not "a few". Don't forget they're changing the rules to give teams who don't make the top four a back door way into the competition.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on October 10, 2021, 05:35:50 PM
At what point will all the premier league clubs be owned by billionaires? Sort of levels the playing field for everyone.

I think it's only Norwich, Watford and Leeds who aren't, plus maybe West Ham if you take the two Davids individually. Just different levels of billionaire and willingness to spend is the main distinction at the moment.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Richard E on October 10, 2021, 05:45:42 PM
if there's 7 or 8 clubs that are loaded, then it'll be nice to see a few of them fail each season by not reaching the Champions League


One or two, not "a few". Don't forget they're changing the rules to give teams who don't make the top four a back door way into the competition.


Plus of course it won’t be too long before a pretext is alighted upon for reanimating the European Super League.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 10, 2021, 05:45:43 PM
if there's 7 or 8 clubs that are loaded, then it'll be nice to see a few of them fail each season by not reaching the Champions League

One or two, not "a few". Don't forget they're changing the rules to give teams who don't make the top four a back door way into the competition.
hopefully that rule change suits us in the coming years...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 10, 2021, 05:56:44 PM
Hopefully we finish so high up, it doesn't affect us.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 10, 2021, 05:58:29 PM
As minted as Man City’s current owners are they have spent £1.3bn on 70 players since taking control in 2008. So while that is an obnoxious amount it’s a fraction of their wealth. So just because the consortium at Newcastle have more collectively it’s not like they will be able to do so much more as quickly as some think they will. Rich doesn’t guarantee success. It merely suggests they will try to get it faster relative to the competition. But it isn’t easy to just buy whoever you want because those players aren’t just going to drop everything to roll up at Newcastle. All top players have money now. What the top players want is to maximize their chances of playing and winning in the best competitions. Newcastle cannot offer that any time soon. 

My perspective on how we are doing it hasn’t changed. I’d like for us to do it faster at first team level and I’m still not entirely convinced Dean Smith is the man to do it. But his progress and trajectory cannot be denied and he needs the opportunity to succeed. And what we have coming through is incredibly encouraging. For me, I really like overall the direction we are headed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 10, 2021, 07:45:12 PM
TBH I think having a literally endless supply of money and a burning urge to buy yourself prestige and acceptance in the wider world does guarantee success.

I also think Newcastle will have no more problems attracting players than Man City did when they started waving around insane money.

Being a billionaire is no longer enough, you need to be a multi-billionaire, and we are lucky enough to have two of them.

Where it differs with Man City and potentially Newcastle is the money is on a different level entirely.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on October 10, 2021, 07:49:56 PM
TBH I think having a literally endless supply of money and a burning urge to buy yourself prestige and acceptance in the wider world does guarantee success.

I also think Newcastle will have no more problems attracting players than Man City did when they started waving around insane money.

Being a billionaire is no longer enough, you need to be a multi-billionaire, and we are lucky enough to have two of them.

Where it differs with Man City and potentially Newcastle is the money is on a different level entirely.

Sadly, I agree. (Sad with the sentiment, not sad to be in agreement with you, Paulie.)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smithy on October 12, 2021, 02:05:50 PM
The Saudis might have loads of dollar but wont FFP hamper them.

I think the fact that Ashely has spent fuck all for a few years, and that FFP is a rolling 3-year assessment, means they could afford to spend quite heavily in Jan/next summer and still be OK.  They won't be able to do too much after that however, and I'd expect them to be similar to us in our first couple of years from that point on, with around £100m net spend in per transfer window.

People often forget that both Chelsea and Man City began their transformations before FFP was a consideration.  It wasn't until Man City's third season under Abu-Dhabi control that those restrictions came in.  So their first couple of rebuilding years, with Robinho etc, were free from FFP scrutiny.  Newcastle won't have that, in the same way we don't.

I still like the way we're doing it, buying good players, spending decent money, investing heavily in youth, but not throwing the chequebook at marquee signings (yet).  I think doing that before you have European football to offer just means you'll be buying mercenaries, possibly past their peak and with no resale value.

If they really ARE going to go bonkers with spending in the next 12 months, it will be interesting to see how that approach fares compared to our own over the medium/long term.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on October 12, 2021, 04:28:17 PM
It’s quite simple they’ll just financially dope the Income side of the FFP equation with bigger sponsorships. The burning question is why haven’t NSWE engaged in a bit of this? And I do realise the regs do state commercial deals must be for “fair value”.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on October 12, 2021, 04:29:25 PM
It’s quite simple they’ll just financially dope the Income side of the FFP equation with bigger sponsorships. The burning question is why haven’t NSWE engaged in a bit of this? And I do realise the regs do state commercial deals must be for “fair value”.

Didn’t Derby get done for that
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Richard E on October 12, 2021, 04:57:06 PM
I'd like to think that these owners will have factored in to the equation that other clubs would not just stand still and might attract hefty investment and I'm pretty sure that they will have done. Wes Edens has a track record as a sports club owner and both of them are serious businessmen. They aren't amateurs like Lerner or nutters like Dr Tony.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on October 12, 2021, 05:01:18 PM
It’s quite simple they’ll just financially dope the Income side of the FFP equation with bigger sponsorships. The burning question is why haven’t NSWE engaged in a bit of this? And I do realise the regs do state commercial deals must be for “fair value”.

Didn’t Derby get done for that

I don’t know but I’m not sure a comparison between Mel Morris and the sovereign wealth fund of the Saudis is really comparing like for like?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on October 12, 2021, 06:05:53 PM
It’s quite simple they’ll just financially dope the Income side of the FFP equation with bigger sponsorships. The burning question is why haven’t NSWE engaged in a bit of this? And I do realise the regs do state commercial deals must be for “fair value”.

Didn’t Derby get done for that

I don’t know but I’m not sure a comparison between Mel Morris and the sovereign wealth fund of the Saudis is really comparing like for like?

It’s not but rules are rules mate
I’m sure they will be equally as officious and fair minded at all times 😊
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on October 12, 2021, 06:32:41 PM
Wasn't the start of Derby's financial whirlpool when they sold their ground off to themselves, just like we did?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 12, 2021, 06:46:00 PM
That does nag at me. I'd like us to buy the ground back, even it is spread over ten years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on October 12, 2021, 06:51:05 PM
That does nag at me. I'd like us to buy the ground back, even it is spread over ten years.

I understand where you're coming from, but as it stands it doesn't really make any difference.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dante Lavelli on October 12, 2021, 07:02:01 PM
That does nag at me. I'd like us to buy the ground back, even it is spread over ten years.

I understand where you're coming from, but as it stands it doesn't really make any difference.

Is the risk that NSWE sell the club but maintain ownership of the ground, then charge extortionate rent?  I think that, or similar,  is what happened to Oxford United.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on October 12, 2021, 08:23:03 PM
That does nag at me. I'd like us to buy the ground back, even it is spread over ten years.

I understand where you're coming from, but as it stands it doesn't really make any difference.

Is the risk that NSWE sell the club but maintain ownership of the ground, then charge extortionate rent?  I think that, or similar,  is what happened to Oxford United.

No one would buy the Villa without either the ground as part of the deal, or a cast iron, long term deal for a sensible rental.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Beard82 on October 12, 2021, 08:30:56 PM
I'd like to think that these owners will have factored in to the equation that other clubs would not just stand still and might attract hefty investment and I'm pretty sure that they will have done. Wes Edens has a track record as a sports club owner and both of them are serious businessmen. They aren't amateurs like Lerner or nutters like Dr Tony.
They must have - and to be fair, everything they have done to date suggests that they are looking for a sustainable strategy. 

Its a given that other clubs circumstances will change, and I think they are just focusing on what were doing and lets other clubs do what there thing. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 12, 2021, 08:40:13 PM
I doubt very much that they haven't considered at least one more oligarch or sovereign fund moving into the Premier League.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on October 12, 2021, 08:53:32 PM
I'd like to think that these owners will have factored in to the equation that other clubs would not just stand still and might attract hefty investment and I'm pretty sure that they will have done. Wes Edens has a track record as a sports club owner and both of them are serious businessmen. They aren't amateurs like Lerner or nutters like Dr Tony.
They must have - and to be fair, everything they have done to date suggests that they are looking for a sustainable strategy. 

Its a given that other clubs circumstances will change, and I think they are just focusing on what were doing and lets other clubs do what there thing. 

I've said elsewhere my favourite thing about them is that whilst they've spent money when needed they haven't come in throwing cash around trying to copy what Chelsea and Citeh did but instead are trying to create more organic growth, it means we're in a much better place than we were when the wheels came off for Lerner. I know we got 3 top 6 finishes but the whole thing was built on sand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 12, 2021, 10:31:33 PM
I doubt very much that they haven't considered at least one more oligarch or sovereign fund moving into the Premier League.
From a purely investment perspective it is a good thing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 12, 2021, 11:49:03 PM
I doubt very much that they haven't considered at least one more oligarch or sovereign fund moving into the Premier League.

From a purely investment perspective it is a good thing.

If it happens to us probably best that it's Norway.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 22, 2021, 09:44:54 PM
We need Wes and Nas to be ruthless and not waste any time if this is no longer working. Going backwards simply won’t be good enough and we are at an astonishing rate. Time to pull the trigger boys.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on October 22, 2021, 09:53:02 PM
We need Wes and Nas to be ruthless and not waste any time if this is no longer working. Going backwards simply won’t be good enough and we are at an astonishing rate. Time to pull the trigger boys.

Yep, you don’t spend hundreds of millions and watch everything go backwards. They stuck with Bruce too long, hope they don’t do the same with Smith.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rigadon on October 22, 2021, 10:02:11 PM
It's put up / shut up time in January for me now, transfer-wise.   Are you REALLY all-in? Or not.  Of not, thanks very much. 

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on October 24, 2021, 08:40:53 AM
It's put up / shut up time in January for me now, transfer-wise.   Are you REALLY all-in? Or not.  Of not, thanks very much. 



Wow. Just wow. I despair at some fans sometimes.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nunkin1965 on October 24, 2021, 09:00:44 AM
It's put up / shut up time in January for me now, transfer-wise.   Are you REALLY all-in? Or not.  Of not, thanks very much. 



Wow. Just wow. I despair at some fans sometimes.
Agreed
That statement is bizarre considering the progress thats been made and the strides in development of the club as a whole.
Clear isn't enough for some.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 24, 2021, 10:17:18 AM
It's put up / shut up time in January for me now, transfer-wise.   Are you REALLY all-in? Or not.  Of not, thanks very much. 



Wow. Just wow. I despair at some fans sometimes.
Agreed
That statement is bizarre considering the progress thats been made and the strides in development of the club as a whole.
Clear isn't enough for some.
Staggering
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on October 24, 2021, 11:35:48 AM
Have to agree, what rank nonsense.

I see the £400m you've invested, but you know lads, unless you make it a cool half a billion in January, you're just not serious for me.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 24, 2021, 11:42:24 AM
I'm not too concerned about the money.

What's clear is sooner or later they've going to have to make a big call on the manager.

Two and a half years ago Leicester were slumming it in bottom half with a squad far more talented. Owners sacked Puel and appointed Rodgers. That worked out o.k for them so that's the sort of call I'm expecting at some point this season as we obviously have plenty of good players in the squad now so perhaps need a bit more direction out on the pitch.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: boutrosboutrosgnarly on October 24, 2021, 05:20:54 PM
It's put up / shut up time in January for me now, transfer-wise.   Are you REALLY all-in? Or not.  Of not, thanks very much.
Yeah thanks for saving the club from a shyster and possible extinction, but unless you spend what I feel is acceptable then fuck off.I've no idea whether the owners will acheive what we or they want to in the future, but what thev've done so far they have a little credit in the bank surely?A section of our support is truly fucking laughable.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: gpbarr on October 24, 2021, 05:37:57 PM
It's put up / shut up time in January for me now, transfer-wise.   Are you REALLY all-in? Or not.  Of not, thanks very much. 



Wow. Just wow. I despair at some fans sometimes.

Deluded some of our fans
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on October 24, 2021, 06:15:58 PM
One thing that really annoys me is when fans  talk about net spend and translate that into  zero spend. FFS net spend argument is bollocks. Just because we got £100M in and spent about the same it does not mean we didn't spend any money. Just ask Norwich and Leverkusen and Southampton how much money they have had from us yes real money that owners backed us with.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: tomd2103 on October 24, 2021, 06:23:30 PM
We need Wes and Nas to be ruthless and not waste any time if this is no longer working. Going backwards simply won’t be good enough and we are at an astonishing rate. Time to pull the trigger boys.

Not quite sure how anyone can measure how far back or forward we are going at this point of the season really.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 24, 2021, 06:31:55 PM
It's put up / shut up time in January for me now, transfer-wise.   Are you REALLY all-in? Or not.  Of not, thanks very much. 



The most asinine post I’ve seen for a very long time.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: caster troy on October 24, 2021, 06:33:54 PM
One thing that really annoys me is when fans  talk about net spend and translate that into  zero spend. FFS net spend argument is bollocks. Just because we got £100M in and spent about the same it does not mean we didn't spend any money. Just ask Norwich and Leverkusen and Southampton how much money they have had from us yes real money that owners backed us with.

Exactly. We couldn’t spend £100m on a player because no one that good would come to us. Seems clear to me the strategy was get into Europe with this squad and then spend big again when we can offer European football to top quality players.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on October 25, 2021, 12:04:29 AM
One thing that really annoys me is when fans  talk about net spend and translate that into  zero spend. FFS net spend argument is bollocks. Just because we got £100M in and spent about the same it does not mean we didn't spend any money. Just ask Norwich and Leverkusen and Southampton how much money they have had from us yes real money that owners backed us with.

Exactly. We couldn’t spend £100m on a player because no one that good would come to us. Seems clear to me the strategy was get into Europe with this squad and then spend big again when we can offer European football to top quality players.

We clearly held back on the spending in the summer (not that it is automatically a bad thing to do). There are 2 possible reasons for that, the first is create a buffer so if we did make the top 4/6/whatever and get into a UEFA competition we would have extra funds to throw at the squad whilst staying safe in terms of FFP (as you seem to be suggesting). The other option is that this summer with Smith and the 'replace 1 player with 3' thing was seen as plan a and could be done whilst also keeping funds for plan b, either to give Smith a bit extra in January or to give to a new manager to bringa few of his own in.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: JD on October 25, 2021, 04:46:10 AM
We sell one player and sign a few for a net spend of zero, but you know what, someone has to pay their wages!!!.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rigadon on October 25, 2021, 06:34:22 AM
I’ll admit to being just a tad bit pissed when writing that post.  It was overly harsh - they’ve spent a fuck ton of money and deserve a lot of credit for it.  So I’ll happily retract! 

I just want to see the club move forward and they will need to spend another £xhundred to achieve it.  I’m not completely convinced they will. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on October 25, 2021, 07:49:26 AM
I think it’s fair enough to ask questions as the project proceeds, without doubting what they’ve done already, which is immense.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rigadon on October 25, 2021, 08:18:35 AM
I was all ‘Veruca Salt’ after too much wine.  I think it’s partly the Newcastle takeover too.  All quite unsettling after what looked a clear trajectory to greatness.  Maybe it’s latter-year Lerner haunting my (hungover) mind. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on October 25, 2021, 09:22:29 AM
I'd have thought it was having seen an abject performance where everyone, and everything, looked shit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on October 25, 2021, 09:43:48 AM
I’ll admit to being just a tad bit pissed when writing that post.  It was overly harsh - they’ve spent a fuck ton of money and deserve a lot of credit for it.  So I’ll happily retract! 

I just want to see the club move forward and they will need to spend another £xhundred to achieve it.  I’m not completely convinced they will. 

Don’t worry we’ve all done it mate
Well most of us
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rigadon on October 26, 2021, 11:19:42 AM
I’ll admit to being just a tad bit pissed when writing that post.  It was overly harsh - they’ve spent a fuck ton of money and deserve a lot of credit for it.  So I’ll happily retract! 

I just want to see the club move forward and they will need to spend another £xhundred to achieve it.  I’m not completely convinced they will. 

Don’t worry we’ve all done it mate
Well most of us

Ha! I’m sure most have!  Thanks.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on October 26, 2021, 12:25:43 PM
In terms of investment we've been truly blessed since the owners came in. But I really think we are being hamstrung by the 15,000 on the season ticket waiting list. We've always had one of the country's top stadium's but VP is now only the 8th largest stadium in the PL and soon to become the 9th once Everton build their new 54,000 capacity ground. The extra numbers and the extra match day income are now paramount. Off the field we are now being steadily left behind.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on October 26, 2021, 01:31:05 PM
We'll have a new North stand before Bramley Moore is done. They're still dredging it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan82 on October 26, 2021, 01:32:10 PM
In terms of investment we've been truly blessed since the owners came in. But I really think we are being hamstrung by the 15,000 on the season ticket waiting list. We've always had one of the country's top stadium's but VP is now only the 8th largest stadium in the PL and soon to become the 9th once Everton build their new 54,000 capacity ground. The extra numbers and the extra match day income are now paramount. Off the field we are now being steadily left behind.

2009-2010 looked like the opportune time to develop off the field and expand Villa Park. Instead we went backwards, appointed the worst manager we possibly could have, watched the crowds dwindle and now that we are back we are further behind than we were in 2010
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on October 26, 2021, 06:05:15 PM
We'll have a new North stand before Bramley Moore is done. They're still dredging it.
Let's hope you're right. They really need to get a move on with it. I did hear that quite a bit has been spent on it recently behind the scenes which doesn't fill me with hope that it's happening any time soon.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on October 26, 2021, 07:51:59 PM
I did the tour last August and it was looking slick inside.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Meanwood Villa on October 26, 2021, 08:22:23 PM
The positive thing these days is if we have an increase in capacity there's a very good chance we'll fill it every week. Not too many times you've been able to say that over the years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on October 26, 2021, 08:47:58 PM
We'll have our highest average attendance since 1950 this year and average over 41,500. We have the 8th highest average attendance and the fourth highest seat occupancy at 98.4% full, a lot of which is down to segregation.

Build, build, build.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on October 26, 2021, 08:55:02 PM
Finish 10th again and the interest will begin to cool.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 26, 2021, 09:59:17 PM
It won't. Clubs are better at marketing themselves than ever before, Birmingham will soon be easier to get to than ever before and the Premier League's hold of the public's football conscience grows bigger all the time. It would have been unthinkable for Tottenham and West Ham to be averaging 60,000 twenty years ago. Villa will have no problem averaging over 40,000 for years to come.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on October 26, 2021, 10:26:44 PM
Just imagine if tickets were cheaper too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: gpbarr on October 26, 2021, 10:35:44 PM
All true but ticket sales are a minutia of a PL clubs income these days - I would imagine that before pulling the lever they will want European competition as a money earning stream to pay for the investment.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 26, 2021, 10:39:02 PM
The problem is any serious redevelopment seems to require closing a stand for a year. Not a problem that the likes of Arsenal, Tottenham, West Ham, Man City, Southampton and others had to worry about. I'd settle for spending a season at Perry Barr after the Commonwealth Games and doing all the redevelopment at once. Has to be at least 55,000 or not worth the hassle.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 26, 2021, 11:18:44 PM
The positive thing these days is if we have an increase in capacity there's a very good chance we'll fill it every week. Not too many times you've been able to say that over the years.

Indeed. I was sceptical about a decade ago given the crowds, while solid under MON, tended to hover around 36-38k for many games and then it dipped below 35k for next few seasons but for pretty much last two years with crowds it's been a sell out for games v top and bottom of the league.

We could easily get crowds of 48k +.

Must be a reason why Lerner didn't want to do it back then and this ownership isn't quite convinced so would be interested to know why.

Guess they want us closer to top 6 and qualifying for europa for perhaps two seasons in a row to maximize revenue with the extra games. Leicester have done that and they announced extension to take their capacity up to nearly 40k.

Guess it also depends on how strong the hospitality take up game on game basis is as that obviously is important factor to any extension these days aswell.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: tomd2103 on October 26, 2021, 11:22:36 PM
Finish 10th again and the interest will begin to cool.

Don't think it will.  Think most fans will have seen what happened in the summer and expectations would have been adjusted accordingly. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 26, 2021, 11:22:42 PM
The problem is any serious redevelopment seems to require closing a stand for a year. Not a problem that the likes of Arsenal, Tottenham, West Ham, Man City, Southampton and others had to worry about. I'd settle for spending a season at Perry Barr after the Commonwealth Games and doing all the redevelopment at once. Has to be at least 55,000 or not worth the hassle.

It's tricky. Perhaps if we'd been promoted a year earlier and finished 11th they might've got planning permission in and started during lockdown.

Can't say I fancy playing at the Alex, isn't capacity coming back down to 20k after the games. I assume it will have running track still so same issues as West Ham do and it's not really going to be much better to get away after a game than VP, infact probably worse for bus and train unless you're coming in from Walsall/Sandwell side.

Just needs the usual roadworks on the Scott Arms junction and it will be total gridlock for hours afterwards.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on October 26, 2021, 11:24:10 PM
Finish 10th again and the interest will begin to cool.

What do you mean again?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on October 27, 2021, 12:27:58 AM
The problem is any serious redevelopment seems to require closing a stand for a year. Not a problem that the likes of Arsenal, Tottenham, West Ham, Man City, Southampton and others had to worry about. I'd settle for spending a season at Perry Barr after the Commonwealth Games and doing all the redevelopment at once. Has to be at least 55,000 or not worth the hassle.
Given that the North Stand currently holds 7k closing that end down for a season would still leave us with 35k so moving to the Alexander stadium would be completely pointless. A super structure with wrap around sides could achieve 20k adding around 13k to the current capacity and include some state of the art facilities. Then it would all be worth it. It's time to show some big ambitions and make VP one of the best again which cannot be said while we still have the North Stand letting it down. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 27, 2021, 12:30:12 AM
I was assuming we could persuade the council to leave the Alexandra Stadium at is games capacity for a season (that's 40,000 I think). So wouldn't be completely pointless to the extra five thousand or so that are able to attend matches.

And you could do everything in one season rather than having reduced capacity for (at least) two seasons while you replace the North Stand and Witton Lane Stand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richtheholtender on October 31, 2021, 06:23:27 PM
I know this won't be a popular opinion (most of not all with dusagree) but for me these pair are more at fault for this than Smith. Don't come out with shit like were going for Europe when you're selling season tickets and then when they've been sold sell your best player and a negative net spend. Why not just be honest? We aren't going g to invest anymore, we're cutting our cloth accordingly and we will look to finish between 17th-10th. Thrown Smith right under the bus
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan82 on October 31, 2021, 06:26:35 PM
I know this won't be a popular opinion (most of not all with dusagree) but for me these pair are more at fault for this than Smith. Don't come out with shit like were going for Europe when you're selling season tickets and then when they've been sold sell your best player and a negative net spend. Why not just be honest? We aren't going g to invest anymore, we're cutting our cloth accordingly and we will look to finish between 17th-10th. Thrown Smith right under the bus

Not popular? Maybe because it isn't grounded in any reality. They saved our club in 2018 and have backed this manager. This manager has had money every year and he has had us playing shit for most of the past 9 months.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LukeJames on October 31, 2021, 06:29:14 PM
I know this won't be a popular opinion (most of not all with dusagree) but for me these pair are more at fault for this than Smith. Don't come out with shit like were going for Europe when you're selling season tickets and then when they've been sold sell your best player and a negative net spend. Why not just be honest? We aren't going g to invest anymore, we're cutting our cloth accordingly and we will look to finish between 17th-10th. Thrown Smith right under the bus

With all due respect, what utter bollocks.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rigadon on October 31, 2021, 06:31:09 PM
You have to be careful what you say on here... Especially when a bit, er, tipsy. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richtheholtender on October 31, 2021, 06:32:19 PM
I know this won't be a popular opinion (most of not all with dusagree) but for me these pair are more at fault for this than Smith. Don't come out with shit like were going for Europe when you're selling season tickets and then when they've been sold sell your best player and a negative net spend. Why not just be honest? We aren't going g to invest anymore, we're cutting our cloth accordingly and we will look to finish between 17th-10th. Thrown Smith right under the bus

Not popular? Maybe because it isn't grounded in any reality. They saved our club in 2018 and have backed this manager. This manager has had money every year and he has had us playing shit for most of the pat 9 months.


I understand why people will say that but they got the club at least £100 million cheaper than it was worth. They didn't really invest anything that first year so who's to say we  wouldn't have got promoted under xia? They just paid the tax bill because the money ran out, it's not like they came in spent £50 million and got us up. Essentially, all we did under them was win the game that xia lost. OK, I then give them credit, they spent a bit but like I said they'll get that back as and when they sell. At best we'll always be Everton at worse well be a team that fights to stay in the league. Irs always and always will be the case.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on October 31, 2021, 06:33:10 PM
I know this won't be a popular opinion (most of not all with dusagree) but for me these pair are more at fault for this than Smith. Don't come out with shit like were going for Europe when you're selling season tickets and then when they've been sold sell your best player and a negative net spend. Why not just be honest? We aren't going g to invest anymore, we're cutting our cloth accordingly and we will look to finish between 17th-10th. Thrown Smith right under the bus

Utter nonsense, net spend means fuck all in a season when you make something around £110m in player sales.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: wince on October 31, 2021, 06:33:58 PM
What a load of butter ollocks. Backing an inconsistent manager because of past glories is where they are at fault. Now they need to make their decision
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 31, 2021, 06:34:47 PM
This is the test for me.

O.k praising them with promotion and stuff like that but let's see how long it takes to make a really big decision which will probably shape our next 5 years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richtheholtender on October 31, 2021, 06:37:02 PM
I know this won't be a popular opinion (most of not all with dusagree) but for me these pair are more at fault for this than Smith. Don't come out with shit like were going for Europe when you're selling season tickets and then when they've been sold sell your best player and a negative net spend. Why not just be honest? We aren't going g to invest anymore, we're cutting our cloth accordingly and we will look to finish between 17th-10th. Thrown Smith right under the bus

Utter nonsense, net spend means fuck all in a season when you make something around £110m in player sales.


So taking a world class player out of side means nothing? You're right, "utter nonsense" not on my side
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rigadon on October 31, 2021, 06:38:45 PM
This is the test for me.

O.k praising them with promotion and stuff like that but let's see how long it takes to make a really big decision which will probably shape our next 5 years.

That's where I am too.  Let's see what they do next.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richtheholtender on October 31, 2021, 06:38:50 PM
What a load of butter ollocks. Backing an inconsistent manager because of past glories is where they are at fault. Now they need to make their decision


Past glories? We've won nothing. The teans around us have shown us how it's done and let's be honest it isn't rocket science of we've been here many times before. You keep your best players, continue to invest and compete. Those that don't get left behind end of really.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: wince on October 31, 2021, 06:39:58 PM
I know this won't be a popular opinion (most of not all with dusagree) but for me these pair are more at fault for this than Smith. Don't come out with shit like were going for Europe when you're selling season tickets and then when they've been sold sell your best player and a negative net spend. Why not just be honest? We aren't going g to invest anymore, we're cutting our cloth accordingly and we will look to finish between 17th-10th. Thrown Smith right under the bus

Utter nonsense, net spend means fuck all in a season when you make something around £110m in player sales.


So taking a world class player out of side means nothing? You're right, "utter nonsense" not on my side

You are right, most disagree with you
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on October 31, 2021, 06:40:13 PM
I know this won't be a popular opinion (most of not all with dusagree) but for me these pair are more at fault for this than Smith. Don't come out with shit like were going for Europe when you're selling season tickets and then when they've been sold sell your best player and a negative net spend. Why not just be honest? We aren't going g to invest anymore, we're cutting our cloth accordingly and we will look to finish between 17th-10th. Thrown Smith right under the bus

Utter nonsense, net spend means fuck all in a season when you make something around £110m in player sales.


So taking a world class player out of side means nothing? You're right, "utter nonsense" not on my side

Can you read? I ask because I said nothing about Grealish leaving, and neither did you. You blamed them for us having a negative net spend as the reason for the problems. I guess you've realised how fucking stupid an arguement it was now and have decided to strawman tyour way out of it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Stu on October 31, 2021, 06:40:14 PM
What a load of butter ollocks. Backing an inconsistent manager because of past glories is where they are at fault. Now they need to make their decision


Past glories? We've won nothing. The teans around us have shown us how it's done and let's be honest it isn't rocket science of we've been here many times before. You keep your best players, continue to invest and compete. Those that don't get left behind end of really.

How were we supposed to keep ratboy? he wanted out. Made sure he could leave as well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 31, 2021, 06:41:08 PM
What a load of butter ollocks. Backing an inconsistent manager because of past glories is where they are at fault. Now they need to make their decision


Past glories? We've won nothing. The teans around us have shown us how it's done and let's be honest it isn't rocket science of we've been here many times before. You keep your best players, continue to invest and compete. Those that don't get left behind end of really.

Getting us promoted and the financial security it brought us should never be understated. We kept 4 or 5 top players at the club and likely secured an extra £60m for Jack Grealish. It’s not enough to keep him in a job now but let’s not forget the size of that accomplishment.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rigadon on October 31, 2021, 06:43:38 PM
I know this won't be a popular opinion (most of not all with dusagree) but for me these pair are more at fault for this than Smith. Don't come out with shit like were going for Europe when you're selling season tickets and then when they've been sold sell your best player and a negative net spend. Why not just be honest? We aren't going g to invest anymore, we're cutting our cloth accordingly and we will look to finish between 17th-10th. Thrown Smith right under the bus

Utter nonsense, net spend means fuck all in a season when you make something around £110m in player sales.


So taking a world class player out of side means nothing? You're right, "utter nonsense" not on my side

Can you read? I ask because I said nothing about Grealish leaving, and neither did you. You blamed them for us having a negative net spend as the reason for the problems. I guess you've realised how fucking stupid an arguement it was now and have decided to strawman tyour way out of it.

A bit OTT?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richtheholtender on October 31, 2021, 06:44:40 PM
I know this won't be a popular opinion (most of not all with dusagree) but for me these pair are more at fault for this than Smith. Don't come out with shit like were going for Europe when you're selling season tickets and then when they've been sold sell your best player and a negative net spend. Why not just be honest? We aren't going g to invest anymore, we're cutting our cloth accordingly and we will look to finish between 17th-10th. Thrown Smith right under the bus

Utter nonsense, net spend means fuck all in a season when you make something around £110m in player sales.


So taking a world class player out of side means nothing? You're right, "utter nonsense" not on my side

Can you read? I ask because I said nothing about Grealish leaving, and neither did you. You blamed them for us having a negative net spend as the reason for the problems. I guess you've realised how fucking stupid an arguement it was now and have decided to strawman tyour way out of it.


I must have imagined grealish leaving then because to my knowledge he formed part of the player sales. I must not be as bright as you Mr brains
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: wince on October 31, 2021, 06:45:28 PM
What a load of butter ollocks. Backing an inconsistent manager because of past glories is where they are at fault. Now they need to make their decision


Past glories? We've won nothing. The teans around us have shown us how it's done and let's be honest it isn't rocket science of we've been here many times before. You keep your best players, continue to invest and compete. Those that don't get left behind end of really.
Given time to a man who promoted us, who many need to take the C&b glasses off btw. There has been a warchest to get players in. Grealish didn’t give a fuck about us and we were not prepared to be held to ransom. On paper our squad is more than good enough but you are either looking for a fight, had too much of barlimans ale or both.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richtheholtender on October 31, 2021, 06:46:06 PM
I know this won't be a popular opinion (most of not all with dusagree) but for me these pair are more at fault for this than Smith. Don't come out with shit like were going for Europe when you're selling season tickets and then when they've been sold sell your best player and a negative net spend. Why not just be honest? We aren't going g to invest anymore, we're cutting our cloth accordingly and we will look to finish between 17th-10th. Thrown Smith right under the bus

Utter nonsense, net spend means fuck all in a season when you make something around £110m in player sales.


So taking a world class player out of side means nothing? You're right, "utter nonsense" not on my side

Can you read? I ask because I said nothing about Grealish leaving, and neither did you. You blamed them for us having a negative net spend as the reason for the problems. I guess you've realised how fucking stupid an arguement it was now and have decided to strawman tyour way out of it.

A bit OTT?



It's ok mate, it's common on H&V that you can't put something forward without another poster having to resort to making it personal.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 31, 2021, 06:48:43 PM
I know this won't be a popular opinion (most of not all with dusagree) but for me these pair are more at fault for this than Smith. Don't come out with shit like were going for Europe when you're selling season tickets and then when they've been sold sell your best player and a negative net spend. Why not just be honest? We aren't going g to invest anymore, we're cutting our cloth accordingly and we will look to finish between 17th-10th. Thrown Smith right under the bus

Utter nonsense, net spend means fuck all in a season when you make something around £110m in player sales.


So taking a world class player out of side means nothing? You're right, "utter nonsense" not on my side

Can you read? I ask because I said nothing about Grealish leaving, and neither did you. You blamed them for us having a negative net spend as the reason for the problems. I guess you've realised how fucking stupid an arguement it was now and have decided to strawman tyour way out of it.

Read this. One more and you're banned.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richtheholtender on October 31, 2021, 07:06:10 PM
I don't have an issue with the owners doing what they've done, I just take issue with the Europe message being sent out after the summer we've just had. When city were building, they took both ours and arsenal's best players. The Smith Rowe links got out and we couldn't tempt him. I just can't see us kicking on to the levels that's being believed, it's the Lerner saga all over again.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 31, 2021, 07:11:39 PM
I don't have an issue with the owners doing what they've done, I just take issue with the Europe message being sent out after the summer we've just had. When city were building, they took both ours and arsenal's best players. The Smith Rowe links got out and we couldn't tempt him. I just can't see us kicking on to the levels that's being believed, it's the Lerner saga all over again.

You never know, things move quickly in football. Two and a half years ago, Leicester were about 12th-13th in the league and underachieving with a talented squad.

Their ownership (imo best in the league) did something about it and since then they've had two regular top 6 finishes and Fa cup win.

West Ham were fighting relegation with us in 19/20 aswell.

Just crossing our fingers and wasting month after month though this season isn't really going to cut it for me regardless of circmunstances.

Interesting question to ask though, how much of the next managerial search will they just leave down to Purslow as I imagine he had a big say in us getting Dean Smith in the first place given they originally wanted to get Henry in.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rigadon on October 31, 2021, 07:12:39 PM
I think my recent wobble on here is a fear that the Lerner cycle is about to repeat. Who they appoint next will put my fears to rest no doubt (fervently prays).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on October 31, 2021, 07:13:40 PM
I know this won't be a popular opinion (most of not all with dusagree) but for me these pair are more at fault for this than Smith. Don't come out with shit like were going for Europe when you're selling season tickets and then when they've been sold sell your best player and a negative net spend. Why not just be honest? We aren't going g to invest anymore, we're cutting our cloth accordingly and we will look to finish between 17th-10th. Thrown Smith right under the bus

Utter nonsense, net spend means fuck all in a season when you make something around £110m in player sales.


So taking a world class player out of side means nothing? You're right, "utter nonsense" not on my side

Can you read? I ask because I said nothing about Grealish leaving, and neither did you. You blamed them for us having a negative net spend as the reason for the problems. I guess you've realised how fucking stupid an arguement it was now and have decided to strawman tyour way out of it.

A bit OTT?
It's ok mate, it's common on H&V that you can't put something forward without another poster having to resort to making it personal.

You claimed the owners are more at fault than Smith for us playing badly, that's about as bad a take as you could possibly have right now, in fact Sawiris and Edens are about as low on the list of people to be pissed off with as it's possible to get right now. You have no evidence that they aren't going to invest anymore so why make that a central assumption and make them out to be the real villains at the club?

You then added to that by completely changing your argument to bring up Grealish as if it was some 'gotcha'. We all know Grealish leaving how and when he did was shit but that single action, which the owners had no choice over because of a clause in his contract, doesn't mean the owners are suddenly shit and don't care other than to dupe fans into buying season tickets.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 31, 2021, 07:18:39 PM
The suggestion that NSWE are somehow at fault is utterly bonkers.

We couldn't keep Grealish, he had a (massively high) release clause which was met. The manager was given all the money to spend on replacements, which he did.

They've poured £300m into the club already. What they need to do now is protect that investment, and the immediate thing to do for that is to get a manager who can do that, because all the signs are that this one can not.

Incidentally, not only have they provided the money - which Lerner also did for a bit - they have worked on the infrastructure of the club so that it produces results from the money spent, which is something Lerner absolutely never did, other than finishing off the new training ground.

The recruitment has been excellent. The inner city academy is a great move. They have put top people in charge of the academy which is already starting to produce results.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richtheholtender on October 31, 2021, 07:19:21 PM
I think my recent wobble on here is a fear that the Lerner cycle is about to repeat. Who they appoint next will put my fears to rest no doubt (fervently prays).


Exactly this. Its my prediction that it is happening and if it is how can the manager be held accountable if others around us aren't holding back. Happy to be proven wrong but I don't think I will be.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Scott Nielsen on November 01, 2021, 02:32:56 AM
I mostly blame Smith, but also our players, for our poor performances so far - for all the reasons we are all too aware of - but there is something in the suggestion Smith was not backed during the summer.

I know that I was not alone in expecting a significant net spend* on the back of the Grealish money. It seemed like a golden opportunity to really kick-on while many other clubs were presumably wrestling with funding. But we did not and none here knows why. I thought then, and still do, our owners have taken a pause to come up with a new strategy when the previous one was, very clearly, to build a European team around Grealish.

* I do not think our squad is as good as many others on here so another large investment seemed justified.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ozzjim on November 01, 2021, 05:06:35 AM
I think we have a good squad, but poor midfield and lack a talismanic player that we can look to when the chips are down. In the prem if you can't consistently look after ball you will struggle, and we are awful at retaining possession.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OzVilla on November 01, 2021, 05:56:28 AM
We all want Smith to succeed as much as any Villa manager I've seen but I honestly thought that Wolves performance, which Edens witnessed first hand, would've really shaken their belief in Smith.  These 4 games against Spurs, Wolves, Arsenal and W Ham were the ideal litmus test as to whether we can kick on and we've totally collapsed. Spurs and Wolves didn't even play that well. We've actually managed to put ourselves in a position of looking down the table not up. 

These are serious sports owners, spending serious money with serious ambitions. I wouldn't have been surprised if they started putting the gentle 'feelers' out after that Wolves debacle and I suggest that it's now its turned into a full scale sounding out process across Europe. And if it happens, this will be an avoidable, self inflicted sacking.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on November 01, 2021, 08:55:14 AM
Self-inflicted in what way? I personally don't think it's time to pull the trigger on Deano just yet, but he can't ever say he's had anything other than complete support in every respect from the owners.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OzVilla on November 01, 2021, 09:01:54 AM
Self inflicted in the sense that his stubbornness and poor game management will cost him his job.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richtheholtender on November 01, 2021, 09:47:32 AM
Self-inflicted in what way? I personally don't think it's time to pull the trigger on Deano just yet, but he can't ever say he's had anything other than complete support in every respect from the owners.


Until this summer? It's no coincidence that we've progresses year on year when spending  until this one when it looks for all the world were going to regress. All the evidence points to you need to spend, most the time just to stand still and we didn't do it for whatever reason. The poster above mentions that they have held back to come up with a new strategy, I personally think it was known in the football world that the Newcastle takeover was going to happen and that's why they held back. The manager is getting judged now on the expectations of getting near Europe which I think wrong. If they want to go for Europe, they need to invest accordingly (far from easy) if the goalpost have moved and its now a case of do as best you can while making a healthy profit on players then he needs to be judged by that expectation. Could do with hearing from them to be honest as for me they're responsible for the mixed messages.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on November 01, 2021, 09:50:55 AM
To suggest we didn't spend in the last transfer window is just idiotic.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 01, 2021, 09:52:37 AM
Self-inflicted in what way? I personally don't think it's time to pull the trigger on Deano just yet, but he can't ever say he's had anything other than complete support in every respect from the owners.


Until this summer? It's no coincidence that we've progresses year on year when spending  until this one when it looks for all the world were going to regress. All the evidence points to you need to spend, most the time just to stand still and we didn't do it for whatever reason. The poster above mentions that they have held back to come up with a new strategy, I personally think it was known in the football world that the Newcastle takeover was going to happen and that's why they held back. The manager is getting judged now on the expectations of getting near Europe which I think wrong. If they want to go for Europe, they need to invest accordingly (far from easy) if the goalpost have moved and its now a case of do as best you can while making a healthy profit on players then he needs to be judged by that expectation. Could do with hearing from them to be honest as for me they're responsible for the mixed messages.

I've got some sympathy for what you're saying.

And despite the fact the owners have been fantastic, if I'm honest it gnawed at me in the summer when we put in what anyone could see were undervalued bids for Smith-Rowe and Ward-Prowse, just felt a bit Doug.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aj2k77 on November 01, 2021, 10:01:54 AM
Tottenham have pulled the trigger. Let's see how long we twiddle our thumbs watching shite performances. 17 defeats in our last 36. 35 points in our last 36. It's not a ''poor run''. That's nearly a seasons worth of relegation struggle form. He's had a fortune to spend. Ultimately he's failed to move us forwards any more. Sack him and make an improvement. We've replaced the magic of Grealish with a Matty Cash long throw.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on November 01, 2021, 11:28:06 AM
Self-inflicted in what way? I personally don't think it's time to pull the trigger on Deano just yet, but he can't ever say he's had anything other than complete support in every respect from the owners.


Until this summer? It's no coincidence that we've progresses year on year when spending  until this one when it looks for all the world were going to regress. All the evidence points to you need to spend, most the time just to stand still and we didn't do it for whatever reason. The poster above mentions that they have held back to come up with a new strategy, I personally think it was known in the football world that the Newcastle takeover was going to happen and that's why they held back. The manager is getting judged now on the expectations of getting near Europe which I think wrong. If they want to go for Europe, they need to invest accordingly (far from easy) if the goalpost have moved and its now a case of do as best you can while making a healthy profit on players then he needs to be judged by that expectation. Could do with hearing from them to be honest as for me they're responsible for the mixed messages.

I've got some sympathy for what you're saying.

And despite the fact the owners have been fantastic, if I'm honest it gnawed at me in the summer when we put in what anyone could see were undervalued bids for Smith-Rowe and Ward-Prowse, just felt a bit Doug.

I really haven't. In there time with us we've had 1 transfer window where we've made a profit and that coincided with repeated bids for players that ended up not coming in (Smith-Rowe and Ward-Prowse) and was accompanied with the manager repeatedly telling the press he was happy with his squad.

It's very rare for a club to sell a player for the sort of money we got for Grealish (only 5 players have ever cost more) and even rarer for that transfer to still be in the balance a week before the start of the season.

Almost everyone will agree that we could've done with a new midfielder to play the holding role but surely the owners, who have got everything right until this summer, deserve the benefit of the doubt that they'd have made the cash available if we'd wanted that player and had found someone the scouting team decided to go for.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on November 01, 2021, 11:44:08 AM
And despite the fact the owners have been fantastic, if I'm honest it gnawed at me in the summer when we put in what anyone could see were undervalued bids for Smith-Rowe and Ward-Prowse, just felt a bit Doug.

I think that's beyond harsh.

I'd much rather our current approach of paying reasonable money for young players who we can coach to become worth more than what we paid for them, than go back to the MON days of getting rinsed by other clubs because they know we've got money.

The owners have demonstrated they have no issue splashing the cash where it's warranted, as can be seen by Watkins, Buendia, Bailey, etc, etc.  I don't think either of our approaches for Smith-Rowe or Ward-Prowse were clearly "undervalued bids" - we just had an uphill struggle to tempt two players away from clubs they were clearly very happy at and whose clubs didn't want to sell them.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Scott Nielsen on November 01, 2021, 12:11:58 PM
I really haven't. In there time with us we've had 1 transfer window where we've made a profit and that coincided with repeated bids for players that ended up not coming in (Smith-Rowe and Ward-Prowse) and was accompanied with the manager repeatedly telling the press he was happy with his squad.
<snip>
Almost everyone will agree that we could've done with a new midfielder to play the holding role but surely the owners, who have got everything right until this summer, deserve the benefit of the doubt that they'd have made the cash available if we'd wanted that player and had found someone the scouting team decided to go for.

I don't know, Paul. Greg with an extra 'g' did say Smith wanted a holding midfielder but was not given the go ahead due to budget constraints (I assume this is what Vegas has been alluding to as well in a few posts). I know we are supposed to ignore whatever Gregg writes but I wonder if there might be something to it after all.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on November 01, 2021, 12:13:43 PM
Where would he have played either of those two?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VinnieChase84 on November 01, 2021, 12:14:38 PM
New man WILL have money to spend in Jan. Just sign a top CM and left back and we will be fine
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on November 01, 2021, 12:21:08 PM
Enough people said we needed a defensive/holding midfielder last summer and why can't Dean see it? If the money's not there then the only blame you can lay at Smith's door is spending the money in other area's. We broke even this summer on transfers so either FFP is the problem or getting into the top6 isn't a priority, whereas the spending to get us in the PL and keep us there was
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on November 01, 2021, 12:26:22 PM
Re the summer's purchases, Ings is the one that still bewilders me: rushed to get done and totally out of the blue.
Bailey: a Chelsea-supporting mate said last night to me - "There is a reason the likes of RM, Manure, Juve, us etc didn't go for him" - which hints at inconsistency and possibly an arsy temperament.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 01, 2021, 12:27:08 PM
Enough people said we needed a defensive/holding midfielder last summer and why can't Dean see it? If the money's not there then the only blame you can lay at Smith's door is spending the money in other area's. We broke even this summer on transfers so either FFP is the problem or getting into the top6 isn't a priority, whereas the spending to get us in the PL and keep us there was

Maybe he could see it but the recruitment team couldn't deliver it, for what ever reason?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Scott Nielsen on November 01, 2021, 12:31:13 PM
Enough people said we needed a defensive/holding midfielder last summer and why can't Dean see it? If the money's not there then the only blame you can lay at Smith's door is spending the money in other area's. We broke even this summer on transfers so either FFP is the problem or getting into the top6 isn't a priority, whereas the spending to get us in the PL and keep us there was

Maybe he could see it but the recruitment team couldn't deliver it, for what ever reason?

He's also an employee and would not likely go and bitch in the press about not getting everything he wanted. Therefore his insistence he was happy with what he got. An interpretation as likely as any other, I'd say.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on November 01, 2021, 12:34:20 PM
Enough people said we needed a defensive/holding midfielder last summer and why can't Dean see it? If the money's not there then the only blame you can lay at Smith's door is spending the money in other area's. We broke even this summer on transfers so either FFP is the problem or getting into the top6 isn't a priority, whereas the spending to get us in the PL and keep us there was

Maybe he could see it but the recruitment team couldn't deliver it, for what ever reason?

True, we'll never know what went on but seeing the holding midfielder was perhaps the cheapest player to acquire you have to wonder what was the problem in recruiting one. I mean "better than Nakamba" is hardly mission impossible.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 01, 2021, 12:38:09 PM
Enough people said we needed a defensive/holding midfielder last summer and why can't Dean see it? If the money's not there then the only blame you can lay at Smith's door is spending the money in other area's. We broke even this summer on transfers so either FFP is the problem or getting into the top6 isn't a priority, whereas the spending to get us in the PL and keep us there was

Maybe he could see it but the recruitment team couldn't deliver it, for what ever reason?

True, we'll never know what went on but seeing the holding midfielder was perhaps the cheapest player to acquire you have to wonder what was the problem in recruiting one. I mean "better than Nakamba" is hardly mission impossible.

Agreed, you can smell the fear in him when he has the ball.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on November 01, 2021, 12:49:21 PM
I think the new owners have been mostly great, but I do think not going out and getting an extra player in the summer was a big mistake, whoever's fault it was.

We only spent the Grealish money if you conclude that otherwise we would have had no budget for signings last summer, which just doesn't stack up. 

I know it's tricky and appreciate we would want to give Ramsey and Sanson a chance, but the reality is we all knew we'd be light in Midfield.  If you want to be top 6 you need to build a squad not a starting 11. The summer feels like a bit of a missed opportunity to me.

But the squad is strong enough to do better and where we are now is down to Smith and the coaching team (and bad luck with injuries) not the owners.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on November 01, 2021, 03:16:41 PM
Enough people said we needed a defensive/holding midfielder last summer and why can't Dean see it? If the money's not there then the only blame you can lay at Smith's door is spending the money in other area's. We broke even this summer on transfers so either FFP is the problem or getting into the top6 isn't a priority, whereas the spending to get us in the PL and keep us there was

Maybe he could see it but the recruitment team couldn't deliver it, for what ever reason?

True, we'll never know what went on but seeing the holding midfielder was perhaps the cheapest player to acquire you have to wonder what was the problem in recruiting one. I mean "better than Nakamba" is hardly mission impossible.

And what's the point of spending over the odds on someone who is 'better than Nakamba'? We want the right type of player don't we? There aren't many about, bar Rice (who wouldn't come to us anyway) and Kante, and yet identifying the right up-and-coming player is perhaps what we're doing. I think Sarr was mentioned, he's young and playing in France, but not many were linked.

We've all said previously that in Luiz and McGinn we've got two fabulous players who are getting better. With Ramsey doing so well (and plenty on here were lauding his early season promise as evidence of us not needing to buy) and Chukwuemeka coming through and Sanson to return it looked good.

I'm not complaining because so far the investment from the owners has been great.

I like the signing of Ings, and I still think, in the right system he'll do well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on November 01, 2021, 03:40:14 PM
Enough people said we needed a defensive/holding midfielder last summer and why can't Dean see it? If the money's not there then the only blame you can lay at Smith's door is spending the money in other area's. We broke even this summer on transfers so either FFP is the problem or getting into the top6 isn't a priority, whereas the spending to get us in the PL and keep us there was

Maybe he could see it but the recruitment team couldn't deliver it, for what ever reason?

True, we'll never know what went on but seeing the holding midfielder was perhaps the cheapest player to acquire you have to wonder what was the problem in recruiting one. I mean "better than Nakamba" is hardly mission impossible.

And what's the point of spending over the odds on someone who is 'better than Nakamba'? We want the right type of player don't we? There aren't many about, bar Rice (who wouldn't come to us anyway) and Kante, and yet identifying the right up-and-coming player is perhaps what we're doing. I think Sarr was mentioned, he's young and playing in France, but not many were linked.

We've all said previously that in Luiz and McGinn we've got two fabulous players who are getting better. With Ramsey doing so well (and plenty on here were lauding his early season promise as evidence of us not needing to buy) and Chukwuemeka coming through and Sanson to return it looked good.

I'm not complaining because so far the investment from the owners has been great.

I like the signing of Ings, and I still think, in the right system he'll do well.

Isn't that the thing though. You don't have to spend a fortune or over the odds for a decent defensive midfielder.  I'm not asking for Rice or Kante, just someone half decent. There's a half way house .
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on November 01, 2021, 03:47:25 PM
Enough people said we needed a defensive/holding midfielder last summer and why can't Dean see it? If the money's not there then the only blame you can lay at Smith's door is spending the money in other area's. We broke even this summer on transfers so either FFP is the problem or getting into the top6 isn't a priority, whereas the spending to get us in the PL and keep us there was

Maybe he could see it but the recruitment team couldn't deliver it, for what ever reason?

True, we'll never know what went on but seeing the holding midfielder was perhaps the cheapest player to acquire you have to wonder what was the problem in recruiting one. I mean "better than Nakamba" is hardly mission impossible.

And what's the point of spending over the odds on someone who is 'better than Nakamba'? We want the right type of player don't we? There aren't many about, bar Rice (who wouldn't come to us anyway) and Kante, and yet identifying the right up-and-coming player is perhaps what we're doing. I think Sarr was mentioned, he's young and playing in France, but not many were linked.

We've all said previously that in Luiz and McGinn we've got two fabulous players who are getting better. With Ramsey doing so well (and plenty on here were lauding his early season promise as evidence of us not needing to buy) and Chukwuemeka coming through and Sanson to return it looked good.

I'm not complaining because so far the investment from the owners has been great.

I like the signing of Ings, and I still think, in the right system he'll do well.

Isn't that the thing though. You don't have to spend a fortune or over the odds for a decent defensive midfielder.  I'm not asking for Rice or Kante, just someone half decent. There's a half way house .

Nakamba and Luiz are not shit players. There's not much out there, that spans that gap, or are there players that you know of that I don't?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 01, 2021, 03:48:39 PM
Well, Luiz isn’t shit most of the time so you’re half right.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richtheholtender on November 01, 2021, 03:54:05 PM
Well, Luiz isn’t shit most of the time so you’re half right.



He isn't a 6 though, he's another 8 along with sanson, Ramsey and SJM. We needed a top defensive midfielder and they didn't provide him with one which is why I for one won't be holding him to levels of expectation some might. The defensive midfielder in a lot of teams gives the security for other players to go and play. If we had of signed one I think we're a much better outfit and that isn't being wise after the event. It's the glue to the side and if it cost an extra few quid to make it happen, a really ambitious club makes it happen.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aev on November 01, 2021, 03:57:42 PM
Well Nakamba is a DM, but that is about all he can do and in a midfield 3 it leaves the other 2 with a lot to do.

The really good DM's are happy to break up the play and bring the ball out, and heck even sometimes take a shot (like Rice yesterday).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on November 01, 2021, 04:00:41 PM
Enough people said we needed a defensive/holding midfielder last summer and why can't Dean see it? If the money's not there then the only blame you can lay at Smith's door is spending the money in other area's. We broke even this summer on transfers so either FFP is the problem or getting into the top6 isn't a priority, whereas the spending to get us in the PL and keep us there was

Maybe he could see it but the recruitment team couldn't deliver it, for what ever reason?

True, we'll never know what went on but seeing the holding midfielder was perhaps the cheapest player to acquire you have to wonder what was the problem in recruiting one. I mean "better than Nakamba" is hardly mission impossible.

And what's the point of spending over the odds on someone who is 'better than Nakamba'? We want the right type of player don't we? There aren't many about, bar Rice (who wouldn't come to us anyway) and Kante, and yet identifying the right up-and-coming player is perhaps what we're doing. I think Sarr was mentioned, he's young and playing in France, but not many were linked.

We've all said previously that in Luiz and McGinn we've got two fabulous players who are getting better. With Ramsey doing so well (and plenty on here were lauding his early season promise as evidence of us not needing to buy) and Chukwuemeka coming through and Sanson to return it looked good.

I'm not complaining because so far the investment from the owners has been great.

I like the signing of Ings, and I still think, in the right system he'll do well.

Isn't that the thing though. You don't have to spend a fortune or over the odds for a decent defensive midfielder.  I'm not asking for Rice or Kante, just someone half decent. There's a half way house .

Nakamba and Luiz are not shit players. There's not much out there, that spans that gap, or are there players that you know of that I don't?

Other clubs in the premiership manage it. Ndidi, Bissouma? Both less than 20m. We have Nakamba who hasn't nailed down a place in 2 and a half years. He's not premier league quality.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 01, 2021, 05:51:18 PM
We have been pointing out for years now that we need a DCM, but I still can not see its the owners fault we have not got one.
Surely the triumvirate that decides transfer priorities are to blame because it is their responsibility.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: tomd2103 on November 02, 2021, 09:45:45 AM
Enough people said we needed a defensive/holding midfielder last summer and why can't Dean see it? If the money's not there then the only blame you can lay at Smith's door is spending the money in other area's. We broke even this summer on transfers so either FFP is the problem or getting into the top6 isn't a priority, whereas the spending to get us in the PL and keep us there was

Maybe he could see it but the recruitment team couldn't deliver it, for what ever reason?

True, we'll never know what went on but seeing the holding midfielder was perhaps the cheapest player to acquire you have to wonder what was the problem in recruiting one. I mean "better than Nakamba" is hardly mission impossible.

And what's the point of spending over the odds on someone who is 'better than Nakamba'? We want the right type of player don't we? There aren't many about, bar Rice (who wouldn't come to us anyway) and Kante, and yet identifying the right up-and-coming player is perhaps what we're doing. I think Sarr was mentioned, he's young and playing in France, but not many were linked.

We've all said previously that in Luiz and McGinn we've got two fabulous players who are getting better. With Ramsey doing so well (and plenty on here were lauding his early season promise as evidence of us not needing to buy) and Chukwuemeka coming through and Sanson to return it looked good.

I'm not complaining because so far the investment from the owners has been great.

I like the signing of Ings, and I still think, in the right system he'll do well.

Isn't that the thing though. You don't have to spend a fortune or over the odds for a decent defensive midfielder.  I'm not asking for Rice or Kante, just someone half decent. There's a half way house .

Nakamba and Luiz are not shit players. There's not much out there, that spans that gap, or are there players that you know of that I don't?

Other clubs in the premiership manage it. Ndidi, Bissouma? Both less than 20m. We have Nakamba who hasn't nailed down a place in 2 and a half years. He's not premier league quality.

For me, Marv is OK as a squad player at Premier League level, who can come off the bench here and there.  He isn't someone who you can rely on to play a number of consecutive games though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on November 02, 2021, 09:49:45 AM
Yeah, he's a trier, and he's not awful all the time by any means but shouldn't be near the 1st team of a club looking to compete.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on November 09, 2021, 01:45:10 AM
WE at the White House meeting Biden with the Bucks.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 09, 2021, 11:36:12 AM
WE at the White House meeting Biden with the Bucks.

Is he asking him if he was that mystery fart guy in the Holte end?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on November 09, 2021, 11:46:51 AM
Biden is now evens favourite to take over.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 09, 2021, 12:29:07 PM
WE at the White House meeting Biden with the Bucks.

Is he asking him if he was that mystery fart guy in the Holte end?

That mystery was settled years ago, everybody knows it was Chris Harte.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on November 09, 2021, 02:02:57 PM
WE at the White House meeting Biden with the Bucks.

Is he asking him if he was that mystery fart guy in the Holte end?

That mystery was settled years ago, everybody knows it was Chris Harte.

Chris Farte?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on November 09, 2021, 02:10:59 PM
WE at the White House meeting Biden with the Bucks.

Is he asking him if he was that mystery fart guy in the Holte end?

That mystery was settled years ago, everybody knows it was Chris Harte.

Whereabouts was this? I only ask because I regularly used a friend's brother's season ticket in the Upper Holte about 15 years ago, and one bloke near me was actually escorted out by the stewards because his noxious farts were causing arguments.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on November 09, 2021, 04:23:04 PM
WE at the White House meeting Biden with the Bucks.

Is he asking him if he was that mystery fart guy in the Holte end?

That mystery was settled years ago, everybody knows it was Chris Harte.

Whereabouts was this? I only ask because I regularly used a friend's brother's season ticket in the Upper Holte about 15 years ago, and one bloke near me was actually escorted out by the stewards because his noxious farts were causing arguments.
I got the blame for this on the "he who smealt it dealt it" principle. It was back in around 2005 and I was in the Lower Holte at the time.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: wince on November 09, 2021, 04:24:47 PM
WE at the White House meeting Biden with the Bucks.

Is he asking him if he was that mystery fart guy in the Holte end?

That mystery was settled years ago, everybody knows it was Chris Harte.

Whereabouts was this? I only ask because I regularly used a friend's brother's season ticket in the Upper Holte about 15 years ago, and one bloke near me was actually escorted out by the stewards because his noxious farts were causing arguments.
I got the blame for this on the "he who smealt it dealt it" principle. It was back in around 2005 and I was in the Lower Holte at the time.
Chris Harte like to fart!

Sorry, I couldn’t resist that.....
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on November 09, 2021, 07:05:06 PM
WE at the White House meeting Biden with the Bucks.

Is he asking him if he was that mystery fart guy in the Holte end?

That mystery was settled years ago, everybody knows it was Chris Harte.

Whereabouts was this? I only ask because I regularly used a friend's brother's season ticket in the Upper Holte about 15 years ago, and one bloke near me was actually escorted out by the stewards because his noxious farts were causing arguments.
I got the blame for this on the "he who smealt it dealt it" principle. It was back in around 2005 and I was in the Lower Holte at the time.

The incident I detailed was 2005 as well.

So either the stench from the flatulent bloke near me wafted down and you got the blame; or your guff travelled into the Upper Holte and got some poor bloke kicked out.

Or there are multiple people turning up to VP and farting. Which is the most disturbing possibility of all.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: thick_mike on November 09, 2021, 07:13:07 PM
WE at the White House meeting Biden with the Bucks.

Is he asking him if he was that mystery fart guy in the Holte end?

That mystery was settled years ago, everybody knows it was Chris Harte.

Whereabouts was this? I only ask because I regularly used a friend's brother's season ticket in the Upper Holte about 15 years ago, and one bloke near me was actually escorted out by the stewards because his noxious farts were causing arguments.
I got the blame for this on the "he who smealt it dealt it" principle. It was back in around 2005 and I was in the Lower Holte at the time.

The incident I detailed was 2005 as well.

So either the stench from the flatulent bloke near me wafted down and you got the blame; or your guff travelled into the Upper Holte and got some poor bloke kicked out.

Or there are multiple people turning up to VP and farting. Which is the most disturbing possibility of all.

You’ve seen the breakfast thread, the answer is clear.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on November 09, 2021, 07:16:36 PM
WE at the White House meeting Biden with the Bucks.

Is he asking him if he was that mystery fart guy in the Holte end?

That mystery was settled years ago, everybody knows it was Chris Harte.

Whereabouts was this? I only ask because I regularly used a friend's brother's season ticket in the Upper Holte about 15 years ago, and one bloke near me was actually escorted out by the stewards because his noxious farts were causing arguments.
I got the blame for this on the "he who smealt it dealt it" principle. It was back in around 2005 and I was in the Lower Holte at the time.

The incident I detailed was 2005 as well.

So either the stench from the flatulent bloke near me wafted down and you got the blame; or your guff travelled into the Upper Holte and got some poor bloke kicked out.

Or there are multiple people turning up to VP and farting. Which is the most disturbing possibility of all.

You’ve seen the breakfast thread, the answer is clear.

Haha! I'd hoped the heroic consumption of balti pies near me whenever I go to a game indicated that most people choose a light breakfast.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on November 09, 2021, 07:35:17 PM
WE at the White House meeting Biden with the Bucks.

Is he asking him if he was that mystery fart guy in the Holte end?

That mystery was settled years ago, everybody knows it was Chris Harte.

Whereabouts was this? I only ask because I regularly used a friend's brother's season ticket in the Upper Holte about 15 years ago, and one bloke near me was actually escorted out by the stewards because his noxious farts were causing arguments.
I got the blame for this on the "he who smealt it dealt it" principle. It was back in around 2005 and I was in the Lower Holte at the time.

The incident I detailed was 2005 as well.

So either the stench from the flatulent bloke near me wafted down and you got the blame; or your guff travelled into the Upper Holte and got some poor bloke kicked out.

Or there are multiple people turning up to VP and farting. Which is the most disturbing possibility of all.

You’ve seen the breakfast thread, the answer is clear.

Haha! I'd hoped the heroic consumption of balti pies near me whenever I go to a game indicated that most people choose a light breakfast.
I have to admit, when I started that thread all those years ago I never imagined people would still be talking about it all these years later.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on November 09, 2021, 10:05:18 PM
WE at the White House meeting Biden with the Bucks.

Is he asking him if he was that mystery fart guy in the Holte end?

That mystery was settled years ago, everybody knows it was Chris Harte.

Whereabouts was this? I only ask because I regularly used a friend's brother's season ticket in the Upper Holte about 15 years ago, and one bloke near me was actually escorted out by the stewards because his noxious farts were causing arguments.
I got the blame for this on the "he who smealt it dealt it" principle. It was back in around 2005 and I was in the Lower Holte at the time.

The incident I detailed was 2005 as well.

So either the stench from the flatulent bloke near me wafted down and you got the blame; or your guff travelled into the Upper Holte and got some poor bloke kicked out.

Or there are multiple people turning up to VP and farting. Which is the most disturbing possibility of all.

You’ve seen the breakfast thread, the answer is clear.

Haha! I'd hoped the heroic consumption of balti pies near me whenever I go to a game indicated that most people choose a light breakfast.
I have to admit, when I started that thread all those years ago I never imagined people would still be talking about it all these years later.

There's a thread dedicated to identifying the mystery farter of the Lower Holte?!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 09, 2021, 10:38:02 PM
WE at the White House meeting Biden with the Bucks.

Is he asking him if he was that mystery fart guy in the Holte end?

That mystery was settled years ago, everybody knows it was Chris Harte.

Whereabouts was this? I only ask because I regularly used a friend's brother's season ticket in the Upper Holte about 15 years ago, and one bloke near me was actually escorted out by the stewards because his noxious farts were causing arguments.
I got the blame for this on the "he who smealt it dealt it" principle. It was back in around 2005 and I was in the Lower Holte at the time.

The incident I detailed was 2005 as well.

So either the stench from the flatulent bloke near me wafted down and you got the blame; or your guff travelled into the Upper Holte and got some poor bloke kicked out.

Or there are multiple people turning up to VP and farting. Which is the most disturbing possibility of all.

You’ve seen the breakfast thread, the answer is clear.

Haha! I'd hoped the heroic consumption of balti pies near me whenever I go to a game indicated that most people choose a light breakfast.
I have to admit, when I started that thread all those years ago I never imagined people would still be talking about it all these years later.

Have you heard about this guy who was African and reversed a car....

Or Andrew Greaves......
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on November 10, 2021, 10:55:52 AM
Putting aside Gerrard's suitability for the job for a second, the thing i'm worried about what this means for investment in the team. His record up there shows he's used to making do with very little in funds, so frankly even a third of what we've spent this summer would be a huge upgrade for him. Are they going to back him as an "upgrade" to Smith to take us to the next level , or is he mainly a Commercial/P.R. appointment, where his profile should make deals easier to make and we're still going down the "sell your best player and try and replace him and another 5 players with the money" route. I just hope he has the clout to get the funds and January will be interesting. If he's looking around for a midfielder on loan then we know all the talk about ambition was hollow.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 10, 2021, 11:04:30 AM
Putting aside Gerrard's suitability for the job for a second, the thing i'm worried about what this means for investment in the team. His record up there shows he's used to making do with very little in funds, so frankly even a third of what we've spent this summer would be a huge upgrade for him. Are they going to back him as an "upgrade" to Smith to take us to the next level , or is he mainly a Commercial/P.R. appointment, where his profile should make deals easier to make and we're still going down the "sell your best player and try and replace him and another 5 players with the money" route. I just hope he has the clout to get the funds and January will be interesting. If he's looking around for a midfielder on loan then we know all the talk about ambition was hollow.

This has been nagging at me since the summer. It might be unfounded and just my faith in disappointment regarding Villa, but there you go.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on November 10, 2021, 11:05:53 AM
The alarm bells will certainly ring if he starts signing Rangers players/Liverpool rejects and loans in Liverpool youngsters ahead of playing our youth.  If that starts happening it'll be clear NSWE have lost the plot and their plan is finished before it really began.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 10, 2021, 11:06:16 AM
I think that's very unlikely. He'll want to do well with his first job in England, and will want assurances of being able to compete.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rigadon on November 10, 2021, 11:11:45 AM
The scars Lerner's retreat left are difficult to ignore. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 10, 2021, 11:26:12 AM
Nothing wrong with signing the odd Rangers player, someone like Glen Kamara looked decent for Finland at euros and is more physical DM than what we have so he could do a job for us on short term basis.

If he wants 3-4 of them then I don't understand logic as they wouldn't be good enough in long term to get us top 6, Morelos isn't better than Ings or Watkins and he'd cost 20m + for instance.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Towser on November 10, 2021, 11:39:04 AM
I would take Ryan Kent
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on November 10, 2021, 11:44:23 AM
The alarm bells will certainly ring if he starts signing Rangers players/Liverpool rejects and loans in Liverpool youngsters ahead of playing our youth.  If that starts happening it'll be clear NSWE have lost the plot and their plan is finished before it really began.
Isn't that why Lange does not report to the head coach? - precisely to ensure a balanced and strategic approach to incoming players is maintained?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 10, 2021, 11:54:09 AM
I would take Ryan Kent

Is he better than Bailey, Buendia, Traore or El Ghazi though?

We are overflowing with wide options so can't see point of adding him unless we sell a couple of those and AEG only one who'll probably move on at some point in six months. Trez probably aswell if he gets back and plays some games towards end of the season.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 10, 2021, 11:57:14 AM
All adds up to what Vinnie said though 7-10 days ago. Owner want a manager who has some sort of "profile" hence them wanting Henry right at start of ownership.

I imagine Purslow got in their ear telling them DS would be a far superior option, they listened to him and it was a very good call.

So Purslow given opportunity to appoint another of his choices.

Think that's basically how we've got to Gerrard being number one pick despite many better options being available currently.

This is call that will shape us for next 5 seasons so it's a big one.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on November 10, 2021, 11:58:31 AM
The alarm bells will certainly ring if he starts signing Rangers players/Liverpool rejects and loans in Liverpool youngsters ahead of playing our youth.  If that starts happening it'll be clear NSWE have lost the plot and their plan is finished before it really began.
Isn't that why Lange does not report to the head coach? - precisely to ensure a balanced and strategic approach to incoming players is maintained?

There was nothing balanced about the players he brought in, when from the previous season we were crying out for a decent no.10 and a dcm (and overall strengthening of the midfield). Yet he keeps his job!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Duncan Shaw on November 10, 2021, 12:23:37 PM
Some revisionism of Lange now I see, he was being lauded for how well the recruitment was going compare to Pitarch not that long ago!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on November 10, 2021, 12:37:08 PM
Recruitment in the summer was good. Not many clubs get to pick up £100m worth of attacking talent that we have.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on November 10, 2021, 12:50:02 PM
The alarm bells will certainly ring if he starts signing Rangers players/Liverpool rejects and loans in Liverpool youngsters ahead of playing our youth.  If that starts happening it'll be clear NSWE have lost the plot and their plan is finished before it really began.
Isn't that why Lange does not report to the head coach? - precisely to ensure a balanced and strategic approach to incoming players is maintained?
There was nothing balanced about the players he brought in, when from the previous season we were crying out for a decent no.10 and a dcm (and overall strengthening of the midfield). Yet he keeps his job!
My point wasn't about how well he's recruited or whether he's still in a job: my point was about a new manager not going back and signing loads of players from his previous club or favourite club, willy-nilly.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on November 10, 2021, 12:52:02 PM
Recruitment in the summer was good. Not many clubs get to pick up £100m worth of attacking talent that we have.

Agreed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Gary Penrice on November 10, 2021, 12:54:10 PM
I would take Ryan Kent

I would take Nathan Patterson as back up to Cash all day long. Other than that errr.....nah!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Beard82 on November 10, 2021, 12:56:12 PM
Recruitment in the summer was good. Not many clubs get to pick up £100m worth of attacking talent that we have.

Agreed.
I think the jury is still out on this.  None of these have set the world alight let - all shown some promise - but ultimately we went into the season without a midfield effectively.

Emi2 has huge question marks over him.  Ings is good, but think everyone would have swapped a decent midfielder for him.  And Bailey has looked amazing and awful

I agree there all good players - but it doesn't necessary represent what we needed
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: lovejoy on November 10, 2021, 01:33:47 PM
Nobody disputes the wealth of our owners,  it this ambition narrative is being critically undermined if their choice of manager is a bloke using us as a stepping stone. If they had ambition we’d be getting a much higher profile manager than Gerrard. Very disappointed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Scott Nielsen on November 10, 2021, 01:54:57 PM
What is going on with this "stepping stone" obsession!? I understand the criticism around lack of experience etc. but this one is just weird. As has been pointed out repeatedly, we can only be a stepping stone to something else for him if he is successful here. What's our problem with that?

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 10, 2021, 02:00:51 PM
It's Mickey Mouse. There are plenty of managers who could be successful here without being talked up as a potential Liverpool manager every time Klopp loses two games in a row. Being happy to see someone leave for a "bigger" club is Small Heath fawning over Jude Bellingham type small time behaviour.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Scott Nielsen on November 10, 2021, 02:09:21 PM
So, in this particular case, the problem you have is not with Gerrard but the media?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 10, 2021, 02:10:54 PM
I don't like the perception that Aston Villa are a second rate club and, worse, happy to accept that position. That's what we are if we allow ourselves to be the managerial testing ground for Liverpool.

In any case, I doubt this "he would leave with my blessing" mantra actually plays out. Leicester didn't give Little their blessing and nor did Southampton when Hoddle, as he was always going to do, left to take the Tottenham job.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 10, 2021, 02:13:24 PM
It's Mickey Mouse. There are plenty of managers who could be successful here without being talked up as a potential Liverpool manager every time Klopp loses two games in a row. Being happy to see someone leave for a "bigger" club is Small Heath fawning over Jude Bellingham type small time behaviour.

Yup. Being a stepping stone is fine if you're Brentford.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on November 10, 2021, 02:33:35 PM
The only way I can rationalise this is in the terms of a cold, unsentimental business arrangement for both parties. Gerrard's remit is to make us a top six/four contender in double quick time - in effect he is accepting he is a stepping-stone manager to the elite level guys that we want (the media, of course, will not report this angle of it).  It will be a relationship where there's little room for genuine emotional attachment from either side. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on November 10, 2021, 02:35:40 PM
What is going on with this "stepping stone" obsession!? I understand the criticism around lack of experience etc. but this one is just weird. As has been pointed out repeatedly, we can only be a stepping stone to something else for him if he is successful here. What's our problem with that?

The problem with that is if you are trying to build a successful club, you need to keep your successful managers.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Neil Hawkes on November 10, 2021, 02:40:30 PM
Whomever it will be, and if they are given financial backing by the owners, they will need to deliver on NSWE ambition of European qualification.
Probably a high target for this year, but if it's not looking likely next year, then I would not be surprised if the new management team isn't binned for another choice.
They are not sentimental when wanting to achieve their set targets.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on November 10, 2021, 02:41:07 PM
It's Mickey Mouse. There are plenty of managers who could be successful here without being talked up as a potential Liverpool manager every time Klopp loses two games in a row. Being happy to see someone leave for a "bigger" club is Small Heath fawning over Jude Bellingham type small time behaviour.

Yup. Being a stepping stone is fine if you're Brentford.

Or Rangers.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 10, 2021, 02:42:53 PM
Mickey Mouse is keeping a manager who'd never, ever get you anywhere near the top 6. That's Brentford level.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on November 10, 2021, 02:52:03 PM
I'm not too worried about the stepping stone thing but, I suspect, for the people who care it feels a lot like the Luiz thing where if he did really well we wouldn't get the long term benefit of it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 10, 2021, 03:40:05 PM
Mickey Mouse is keeping a manager who'd never, ever get you anywhere near the top 6. That's Brentford level.

I completely understand the apathy towards Gerrard given it's a bit of a gamble. But Dean Smith deserved to be fired. If his name wasn't Dean Smith and he wasn't an Aston Villa fan very few would want him still here. His record across almost 12 months was dreadful and much worse as a percentage of games lost when Jack dind't play.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: gpbarr on November 10, 2021, 03:58:43 PM
Mickey Mouse is keeping a manager who'd never, ever get you anywhere near the top 6. That's Brentford level.

I completely understand the apathy towards Gerrard given it's a bit of a gamble. But Dean Smith deserved to be fired. If his name wasn't Dean Smith and he wasn't an Aston Villa fan very few would want him still here. His record across almost 12 months was dreadful and much worse as a percentage of games lost when Jack dind't play.

It’s more than a bit of a gamble.

And how does comparing Smith to Gerrard invalidate the general feeling he isn’t the man for the job?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 10, 2021, 04:02:40 PM
Mickey Mouse is keeping a manager who'd never, ever get you anywhere near the top 6. That's Brentford level.

I completely understand the apathy towards Gerrard given it's a bit of a gamble. But Dean Smith deserved to be fired. If his name wasn't Dean Smith and he wasn't an Aston Villa fan very few would want him still here. His record across almost 12 months was dreadful and much worse as a percentage of games lost when Jack dind't play.

Speaking only for myself, it's not apathy, it's antagonism.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on November 10, 2021, 04:19:36 PM
Mickey Mouse is keeping a manager who'd never, ever get you anywhere near the top 6. That's Brentford level.

I completely understand the apathy towards Gerrard given it's a bit of a gamble. But Dean Smith deserved to be fired. If his name wasn't Dean Smith and he wasn't an Aston Villa fan very few would want him still here. His record across almost 12 months was dreadful and much worse as a percentage of games lost when Jack dind't play.
Dean Smith did not deserve to be fired. At least not yet.

As for Gerrard, I can't believe the owners hooked Smith only to (possibly) hire him.  Surely there are better, proven options out there.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on November 10, 2021, 04:21:46 PM
Speaking only for myself, it's not apathy, it's antagonism.
Same.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2021, 04:27:37 PM
Mickey Mouse is keeping a manager who'd never, ever get you anywhere near the top 6. That's Brentford level.

I completely understand the apathy towards Gerrard given it's a bit of a gamble. But Dean Smith deserved to be fired. If his name wasn't Dean Smith and he wasn't an Aston Villa fan very few would want him still here. His record across almost 12 months was dreadful and much worse as a percentage of games lost when Jack dind't play.
Dean Smith did not deserve to be fired. At least not yet.

As for Gerrard, I can't believe the owners hooked Smith only to (possibly) hire him.  Surely there are better, proven options out there.

Disagree. 18 defeats in a calendar year is really poor.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 10, 2021, 04:49:09 PM
A Backup Goalkeeper should be at the top of Stevens list handed over to our Owners.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 10, 2021, 04:54:49 PM
We already have one.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 10, 2021, 04:55:36 PM
Mickey Mouse is keeping a manager who'd never, ever get you anywhere near the top 6. That's Brentford level.

I completely understand the apathy towards Gerrard given it's a bit of a gamble. But Dean Smith deserved to be fired. If his name wasn't Dean Smith and he wasn't an Aston Villa fan very few would want him still here. His record across almost 12 months was dreadful and much worse as a percentage of games lost when Jack dind't play.
Dean Smith did not deserve to be fired. At least not yet.

As for Gerrard, I can't believe the owners hooked Smith only to (possibly) hire him.  Surely there are better, proven options out there.

Disagree. 18 defeats in a calendar year is really poor.

It’s not poor at all. It’s atrocious. And that’s with almost 6 weeks left to go.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on November 10, 2021, 04:59:59 PM
Our back up goalkeepers do not let us down.  It is the first choices making idiotic mistakes.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 10, 2021, 05:15:14 PM
We already have one.

Jed Steer is not Premier League standard, we should have replaced Tom Heaton with equal ability. With Martinez out of the Country so often for various reasons and no competition I think Martinez could be a problem ,he was very poor against West Ham
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on November 10, 2021, 05:27:52 PM
Mickey Mouse is keeping a manager who'd never, ever get you anywhere near the top 6. That's Brentford level.

I completely understand the apathy towards Gerrard given it's a bit of a gamble. But Dean Smith deserved to be fired. If his name wasn't Dean Smith and he wasn't an Aston Villa fan very few would want him still here. His record across almost 12 months was dreadful and much worse as a percentage of games lost when Jack dind't play.
Dean Smith did not deserve to be fired. At least not yet.

As for Gerrard, I can't believe the owners hooked Smith only to (possibly) hire him.  Surely there are better, proven options out there.

Disagree. 18 defeats in a calendar year is really poor.

It is, and for me the end of the Southampton game showed that Deano had ran out of ideas and his time was up.

But if the owners were going to pull the trigger they needed to have a plan that they'd be bringing in someone better.  If the answer's Gerrard I'm not sure they did.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on November 10, 2021, 05:56:58 PM
It is, and for me the end of the Southampton game showed that Deano had ran out of ideas and his time was up.

But if the owners were going to pull the trigger they needed to have a plan that they'd be bringing in someone better.  If the answer's Gerrard I'm not sure they did.
I totted the points total for 2021 as 39 from 35 games. granted not good but not relegation form either (although admittedly not far from it). Having lost his star player maybe he could have been cut some slack (even just a few more games), but then maybe I'm being over sentimental about having a Villa fan at the helm.

I agree with the above post that Gerrard doesn't smack of being a succession plan. You'd think with the amounts they've invested that the owners would periodically be planning for replacements in case of an emergency.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 10, 2021, 06:00:46 PM
We already have one.

Jed Steer is not Premier League standard, we should have replaced Tom Heaton with equal ability. With Martinez out of the Country so often for various reasons and no competition I think Martinez could be a problem ,he was very poor against West Ham

Jed hasn't let us down and was a huge part of getting us promoted. You don't tend to attract world class players as back up goalkeeper. And Martinez is one of the best goalkeepers on the planet. Still, not like you to see the negative side.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on November 10, 2021, 06:03:04 PM
We already have one.

Jed Steer is not Premier League standard, we should have replaced Tom Heaton with equal ability. With Martinez out of the Country so often for various reasons and no competition I think Martinez could be a problem ,he was very poor against West Ham

Tell me this F5Stone, which goalkeeper of equal standing to Heaton or someone of his ilk is going to rock up at Villa Park just to get the occasional game whenever Argentina come calling for Martinez?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 10, 2021, 06:06:27 PM
Also worth pointing out that Tom Heaton has played zero minutes this season, so perhaps he's not the most important player in the world.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 10, 2021, 06:11:46 PM
Sergio Romero would have been ideal on a Free Transfer.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 10, 2021, 06:12:45 PM
Sergio Romero would have been ideal on a Free Transfer.


On what basis?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: danno on November 10, 2021, 06:15:29 PM
Leaves Man Utd because of lack of playing time, joins Aston Villa as backup.
Hmmm...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 10, 2021, 06:16:44 PM
Sergio Romero would have been ideal on a Free Transfer.

So you're moaning like fuck about us allowing a player deemed good enough to be Man U's third choice to leave (not that we had a choice), but think we should have signed a player released by Man U because they didn't even think he was good enough to do that?

If we had signed Romero and Steer had gone, you'd be moaning like fuck and saying we were mad to let Steer go.

Still, I don't know why I bother to engage as I'm clearly giving you the attention your trolling craves.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 10, 2021, 07:11:21 PM
Sergio Romero would have been ideal on a Free Transfer.

So you're moaning like fuck about us allowing a player deemed good enough to be Man U's third choice to leave (not that we had a choice), but think we should have signed a player released by Man U because they didn't even think he was good enough to do that?

If we had signed Romero and Steer had gone, you'd be moaning like fuck and saying we were mad to let Steer go.

Still, I don't know why I bother to engage as I'm clearly giving you the attention your trolling craves.

Not Trolling mate

Just think a Premier League club with European Ambitions should have 3 decent keepers
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on November 10, 2021, 07:18:10 PM

Just think a Premier League club with European Ambitions should have 3 decent keepers
In an ideal world I'd agree with this. I'd have liked to have seen us hold on to Tom Heaton, but sadly that didn't happen.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 10, 2021, 07:19:47 PM
Sergio Romero would have been ideal on a Free Transfer.

So you're moaning like fuck about us allowing a player deemed good enough to be Man U's third choice to leave (not that we had a choice), but think we should have signed a player released by Man U because they didn't even think he was good enough to do that?

If we had signed Romero and Steer had gone, you'd be moaning like fuck and saying we were mad to let Steer go.

Still, I don't know why I bother to engage as I'm clearly giving you the attention your trolling craves.

Not Trolling mate

Just think a Premier League club with European Ambitions should have 3 decent keepers

Manchester City's third choice goalkeeper is 94 year old Scott Carson. It's really not that big a deal.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 10, 2021, 07:21:17 PM
Carson's age doesn't matter because he's a hologram.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on November 10, 2021, 07:22:07 PM

Just think a Premier League club with European Ambitions should have 3 decent keepers
In an ideal world I'd agree with this. I'd have liked to have seen us hold on to Tom Heaton, but sadly that didn't happen.

That's about where I am. I do have concerns about Steer but it's mostly that I see him as a 2.5 keeper, not good enough (in my opinion) to come in and start a run of games if Martinez is out but too good to not even be making the bench.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richtheholtender on November 10, 2021, 10:34:58 PM
Steve Gerrard Gerrard ,
He's moving to Villa Park,
He'll find the budget hard,
Steve Gerrard Gerrard
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 10, 2021, 10:45:29 PM
Steve Gerrard Gerrard,
He landed on his f**king feet,
Purslow gave him the seat
Steve Gerrard Gerrard.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 11, 2021, 03:39:30 PM
Steve Gerrard Gerrard,
He hit a DJ hard,
Better than Fwank Lampard
Steve Gerrard Gerrard.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: gpbarr on November 11, 2021, 06:19:24 PM
Steve Gerrard Gerrard
A boy in a man's job
Purslow's a nob
Steve Gerrard Gerrard
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 11, 2021, 08:00:21 PM
Whilst the Brighton game is Sold Out there is still a couple of Thousand seats left for the Man City fixture.
Seats widely available in the Trinity Upper priced around £50. Have we overcharged for a Wednesday Evening fixture on TV?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 11, 2021, 08:19:07 PM
It might have something to do with a chunk of people not wanting to see one of their players in a different shirt at VP.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Meanwood Villa on November 11, 2021, 08:21:12 PM
Or it might be a particular poster just finding something, anything to moan about.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on November 11, 2021, 08:25:15 PM
Or it might be a particular poster just finding something, anything to moan about.
You have to admit, moaning about the attendances of games that haven't even happened yet shows an impressive level of creativity when it comes to finding things to be outraged about.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on November 11, 2021, 08:27:07 PM
It might have something to do with a chunk of people not wanting to see one of their players in a different shirt at VP.

I'm intrigued by how many of our fans will boo him. I've never booed anyone in my life so it's not something I would do personally. Sometimes I think not many, sometimes I think loads. What's the general vibe towards him now with the average match goer? I know here isn't always indicative.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 11, 2021, 08:27:30 PM
Whilst the Brighton game is Sold Out there is still a couple of Thousand seats left for the Man City fixture.
Seats widely available in the Trinity Upper priced around £50. Have we overcharged for a Wednesday Evening fixture on TV?

1/10

Doesn’t even rhyme ffs, how are we meant to sing that?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 11, 2021, 08:27:58 PM
I intend to boo him with every last fibre of my being.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on November 11, 2021, 08:28:59 PM
He probably won’t even be in the squad by then.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 11, 2021, 08:29:08 PM
Whilst the Brighton game is Sold Out there is still a couple of Thousand seats left for the Man City fixture.
Seats widely available in the Trinity Upper priced around £50. Have we overcharged for a Wednesday Evening fixture on TV?

1/10

Doesn’t even rhyme ffs, how are we meant to sing that?

Ha!  It's better than this one mind:

"Steve Gerrard Gerrard
A boy in a man's job
Purslow's a nob
Steve Gerrard Gerrard"
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 11, 2021, 08:29:35 PM
He probably won’t even be in the squad by then.

I'll go and stand outside his house then.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on November 11, 2021, 08:32:22 PM
I found out today that a meeting I've got to be at is happening in Spain on the day of the Man City game.  Balls!

So I'll be booing him from afar!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: thick_mike on November 11, 2021, 08:52:08 PM
I found out that that a meeting I've got to be at is happening in Spain on the day of the Man City game.  Balls!

So I'll be booing him from afar!!

It’s the Villa equivalent of a night shift at the Rover ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 11, 2021, 08:53:43 PM
I found out that that a meeting I've got to be at is happening in Spain on the day of the Man City game.  Balls!

So I'll be booing him from afar!!

Oh the humanity! How ever will you cope?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on November 11, 2021, 08:53:52 PM
If the Man City game had been on the Tuesday I’d have missed it as at a concert but now it’s Wednesday I can go and boo the little fucker.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Monty on November 11, 2021, 08:56:04 PM
The City game was scheduled for my birthday but was mercifully moved!

As for those people questioning the owners' ambition after this appointment, I think it's wide of the mark. They genuinely think this is an ambitious appointment. You can question that judgement if you like, but they certainly haven't downgraded.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 11, 2021, 08:56:15 PM
Or it might be a particular poster just finding something, anything to moan about.

I didn't clock who posted it! I assumed he was on the golf course, enjoying retirement.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on November 11, 2021, 09:02:40 PM
Or it might be a particular poster just finding something, anything to moan about.

Bit harsh on Ad@m. ;)

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on November 11, 2021, 09:14:01 PM
If the Man City game had been on the Tuesday I’d have missed it as at a concert but now it’s Wednesday I can go and boo the little fucker.
Which little fucker?

Edit: Having read back a bit, I assume you mean the one I'd have been singing "you're just a shit Lee Hendrie" to if I was able to attend.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on November 11, 2021, 10:52:10 PM
It might have something to do with a chunk of people not wanting to see one of their players in a different shirt at VP.

I'm intrigued by how many of our fans will boo him. I've never booed anyone in my life so it's not something I would do personally. Sometimes I think not many, sometimes I think loads. What's the general vibe towards him now with the average match goer? I know here isn't always indicative.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 15, 2021, 05:34:03 PM
Man City clash now on General Sale and still hundreds of seats Available around the ground.
The Club make out we now have 20,000 people on a Season Ticket 'waiting list' desperate to get hold of a Ticket whilst also sending supporters threatening emails about Bans for giving a friend your Season Card for a one off Match .
If there was so much demand this Match would be Sold Out by now, regardless of what day of the week it's on.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on November 15, 2021, 05:51:28 PM
I intend to boo him with every last fibre of my being.

I can send you a recording of me booing for you to play on the  phone and add to the welcome.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on November 15, 2021, 07:31:33 PM
Man City clash now on General Sale and still hundreds of seats Available around the ground.
The Club make out we now have 20,000 people on a Season Ticket 'waiting list' desperate to get hold of a Ticket whilst also sending supporters threatening emails about Bans for giving a friend your Season Card for a one off Match .
If there was so much demand this Match would be Sold Out by now, regardless of what day of the week it's on.



You're going to need a bigger boat Quint.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rigadon on November 15, 2021, 08:45:17 PM
Man City clash now on General Sale and still hundreds of seats Available around the ground.
The Club make out we now have 20,000 people on a Season Ticket 'waiting list' desperate to get hold of a Ticket whilst also sending supporters threatening emails about Bans for giving a friend your Season Card for a one off Match .
If there was so much demand this Match would be Sold Out by now, regardless of what day of the week it's on.



You're going to need a bigger boat Quint.

You spelled ****** wrong.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richtheholtender on November 15, 2021, 08:52:35 PM
Man City clash now on General Sale and still hundreds of seats Available around the ground.
The Club make out we now have 20,000 people on a Season Ticket 'waiting list' desperate to get hold of a Ticket whilst also sending supporters threatening emails about Bans for giving a friend your Season Card for a one off Match .
If there was so much demand this Match would be Sold Out by now, regardless of what day of the week it's on.






Not suggesting this is right but I do believe some of the fans are possible waiting to see of this is our ceiling. I believe they're plenty on the ST waiting list  that aren't interested in individual games, they're only interested in a ST and that's if we become competitive. I believe we've been at the stage before and never gone the extra mile, the investment has blinked first. I suspect this is the same but if we go for it and get it right, you can easily make VP 55k stadium and sell it out. What that says about those particular supporters in down to opinion
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on November 15, 2021, 09:20:00 PM
Man City clash now on General Sale and still hundreds of seats Available around the ground.
The Club make out we now have 20,000 people on a Season Ticket 'waiting list' desperate to get hold of a Ticket whilst also sending supporters threatening emails about Bans for giving a friend your Season Card for a one off Match .
If there was so much demand this Match would be Sold Out by now, regardless of what day of the week it's on.






Not suggesting this is right but I do believe some of the fans are possible waiting to see of this is our ceiling. I believe they're plenty on the ST waiting list  that aren't interested in individual games, they're only interested in a ST and that's if we become competitive. I believe we've been at the stage before and never gone the extra mile, the investment has blinked first. I suspect this is the same but if we go for it and get it right, you can easily make VP 55k stadium and sell it out. What that says about those particular supporters in down to opinion
Just ignore him he's a wind up merchant.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richtheholtender on November 15, 2021, 09:37:51 PM
Man City clash now on General Sale and still hundreds of seats Available around the ground.
The Club make out we now have 20,000 people on a Season Ticket 'waiting list' desperate to get hold of a Ticket whilst also sending supporters threatening emails about Bans for giving a friend your Season Card for a one off Match .
If there was so much demand this Match would be Sold Out by now, regardless of what day of the week it's on.






Not suggesting this is right but I do believe some of the fans are possible waiting to see of this is our ceiling. I believe they're plenty on the ST waiting list  that aren't interested in individual games, they're only interested in a ST and that's if we become competitive. I believe we've been at the stage before and never gone the extra mile, the investment has blinked first. I suspect this is the same but if we go for it and get it right, you can easily make VP 55k stadium and sell it out. What that says about those particular supporters in down to opinion
Just ignore him he's a wind up merchant.



Didn't even check the username. I should have done.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on November 15, 2021, 09:39:30 PM
2500 tickets are available for a game in 2 and a bit weeks.

Man United have tickets going spare for their home game against Arsenal on 2nd December. Ground must be miles too big for them.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 16, 2021, 04:55:54 PM
2500 tickets are available for a game in 2 and a bit weeks.

Man United have tickets going spare for their home game against Arsenal on 2nd December. Ground must be miles too big for them.

Just checked again and seems barely any have been sold over the last 24 Hours. I just don't really understand this as the club make out we have 20,000 people desperate for a slice of the action.... surely those locked out due to sell outs would be after these seats available right now?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on November 16, 2021, 05:34:02 PM
2500 tickets are available for a game in 2 and a bit weeks.

Man United have tickets going spare for their home game against Arsenal on 2nd December. Ground must be miles too big for them.

Just checked again and seems barely any have been sold over the last 24 Hours. I just don't really understand this as the club make out we have 20,000 people desperate for a slice of the action.... surely those locked out due to sell outs would be after these seats available right now?

You are aware we've sold out every game so far this season?

Hopefully you've bought your ticket so you can inspect the paint work.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on November 16, 2021, 05:47:15 PM
Just ignore.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: wince on November 16, 2021, 06:18:41 PM
There are still tickets available for games shocker.
NSWE statement: We are pulling out of Aston Villa due to a game televised in midweek not selling out 2 weeks before it is being played. We cannot possibly continue.
Jack Grealish commented “err I fink we shud call off the fixtcha as er it ain’t fair loike. Maybe yous fans shud all support citeh as it’s obvz yous are not gonna last wiv them sales loike”.

Fred flintstone unavailable for comment as he was busy emailing complaints to Aston Villa FC about the half time beer/food/ rain over St. Andrews/ the need for a top class reserve keeper/etc etc
Heard to say over and over it’s an outrage......


In short who fucking cares? It’s almost chrimbo, the return of the greasy ratted one and it’s two fucking weeks away. If you care so much, but me a ticket as I’m skint


Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Demitri_C on November 16, 2021, 08:10:17 PM
If we win big against brighron there wi.be a spike for sure.

But midweek games mostly are lower  attendances.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: DB on November 16, 2021, 09:44:01 PM
I am a Claret member and tickets should be available to me now for Citeh  (since 1st Nov) but on the app just states 'Coming Soon'.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on November 16, 2021, 09:47:00 PM
It's terrible it is. A midweek game 2 weeks away and only 40,000 tickets sold. Could be worse though. Imagine supporting a club that carries the name of the second city where 1.3 million people live and you can barely scrape a crowd of 17,000?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: DB on November 16, 2021, 10:19:31 PM
I am a Claret member and tickets should be available to me now for Citeh  (since 1st Nov) but on the app just states 'Coming Soon'.

Scrub above, just re-freshed  and I can purchase...which I have.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sdwbvf on November 17, 2021, 06:31:38 PM
I am a Claret member and tickets should be available to me now for Citeh  (since 1st Nov) but on the app just states 'Coming Soon'.

Scrub above, just re-freshed  and I can purchase...which I have.

Well that's one less available then!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 17, 2021, 06:34:04 PM
The whole online ticketing thing is a fiasco. It’s not fit for purpose.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 17, 2021, 07:26:45 PM
The whole online ticketing thing is a fiasco. It’s not fit for purpose.

It really is absolute shit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on November 17, 2021, 09:00:34 PM
The whole online ticketing thing is a fiasco. It’s not fit for purpose.

I'm genuinely confused by the criticism of the online ticketing system, I've never had an issue with it, log in choose the tickets you want in whichever section you're sitting in, add it to basket, ensure you select a ref number then press Pay and enter your bank details? or am I missing something.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 17, 2021, 09:11:41 PM
The whole online ticketing thing is a fiasco. It’s not fit for purpose.

I'm genuinely confused by the criticism of the online ticketing system, I've never had an issue with it, log in choose the tickets you want in whichever section you're sitting in, add it to basket, ensure you select a ref number then press Pay and enter your bank details? or am I missing something.

You're missing something.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 18, 2021, 01:01:49 AM
Update

Very few sold when I looked a few hours ago. If the club has ambitions of increasing capacity this could be a reminder that we won't always fill it. I'd love to know where the 20,000 on the waiting list all are . We need a full house if we have genuine ambitions of expansion to the stadium. I think the owners will put all plans on ice and see how the numbers look in a couple of years.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 18, 2021, 01:20:15 AM
That reminds me - I must remember to emigrate. Oh, I did. And yet...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on November 18, 2021, 06:28:50 AM
It's a fucking disgrace!

NWSE are so upset, they cried all the water out their bodies.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dave P on November 18, 2021, 06:40:25 AM
Well I hope we do sell out as empty seats at a Man City game will just play into their hands.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: wince on November 18, 2021, 07:48:28 AM
Fred is our very own 7th son of a 7th son. Has the gift of foresight. We haven’t sold out against Citeh. The crops will fail!!!!!!
NSWE are not investing.
20000 waiting for season tickets is fake news.
The end is nigh.....

Seriously, what’s with the nose obsession over this.......

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on November 18, 2021, 08:33:35 AM
Fred is high on Cake.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 18, 2021, 08:37:04 AM
Fred is high on Cake.

Wait till he finds out Villa Park is actually paedophile disguised as a football stadium.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on November 18, 2021, 09:55:58 AM
Fred is our very own 7th son of a 7th son*. Has the gift of foresight. We haven’t sold out against Citeh. The crops will fail!!!!!!

The 7th son of a 7th son in our local town could cure shingles, it was much more useful. Ours is just obsessed with the perceived evil that men do.

*Maiden reference noted.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on November 18, 2021, 10:04:45 AM
Fred is our very own 7th son of a 7th son. Has the gift of foresight. We haven’t sold out against Citeh. The crops will fail!!!!!!
NSWE are not investing.
20000 waiting for season tickets is fake news.
The end is nigh.....

Seriously, what’s with the nose obsession over this.......
The actual genuine noses that I know all say the same. That our crowds are very impressive especially when you consider how success starved our region is and the sky/media obsession with London clubs and the North West. One particular knuckle dragging friend actually said, and I quote "you know how much I ''ate the vile don't you? But I have to give you this 40,000 every home game is fuckin brilliant to be fair. But I still 'ate everything about you lot" High praise.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 18, 2021, 10:06:38 AM
Fred is our very own 7th son of a 7th son. Has the gift of foresight. We haven’t sold out against Citeh. The crops will fail!!!!!!
NSWE are not investing.
20000 waiting for season tickets is fake news.
The end is nigh.....

Seriously, what’s with the nose obsession over this.......
The actual genuine noses that I know all say the same. That our crowds are very impressive especially when you consider how success starved our region is and the sky/media obsession with London clubs and the North West. One particular knuckle dragging friend actually said, and I quote "you know how much I ''ate the vile don't you? But I have to give you this 40,000 every home game is fuckin brilliant to be fair. But I still 'ate everything about you lot" High praise.

I'm guessing his name isn't Flynn Stone.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Fred Crump on November 18, 2021, 10:39:04 AM
Fred is high on Cake.

Wait till he finds out Villa Park is actually paedophile disguised as a football stadium.

I’d just like to point out that other Freds are available.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Stu on November 18, 2021, 10:51:20 AM
It's a fucking disgrace!

NWSE are so upset, they cried all the water out their bodies.

Imagine how their mother's must have felt.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 18, 2021, 10:57:55 AM
Fred is high on Cake.

Wait till he finds out Villa Park is actually paedophile disguised as a football stadium.

I’d just like to point out that other Freds are available.

You have my sympathy Fred, I'll just refer to you as 'Crumpy' from now on if it helps?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Fred Crump on November 18, 2021, 11:47:28 AM
Fred is high on Cake.

Wait till he finds out Villa Park is actually paedophile disguised as a football stadium.

I’d just like to point out that other Freds are available.

You have my sympathy Fred, I'll just refer to you as 'Crumpy' from now on if it helps?

Haha, suits me fine Lee !
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on November 18, 2021, 02:17:25 PM
The whole online ticketing thing is a fiasco. It’s not fit for purpose.

I'm genuinely confused by the criticism of the online ticketing system, I've never had an issue with it, log in choose the tickets you want in whichever section you're sitting in, add it to basket, ensure you select a ref number then press Pay and enter your bank details? or am I missing something.
That's how it works for me too. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on November 18, 2021, 02:26:56 PM
For the City game, there's 2,000 left with 2 weeks to go for a midweek game against a team who are likely to smash us.

If I was picking and choosing games on an individual basis I wouldn't be rushing to buy a ticket for this one.  Even so, it still looks like we'll sell out.  There's nothing to see here Flin.  Well other than a bit of trolling.

There's 3,700 left for Leicester which doesn't go on general sale until Monday.  No doubt that will be a sell out too.

I'm not convinced we'd consistently sell out 50k just yet, but put us in the top 6 and I'm sure we would.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on November 18, 2021, 02:42:47 PM
They need to put 10k on the capacity anyway. Doesn't matter if you fill it every week. 10 games per season with 50k over 5 years  and it pays for itself,
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on November 18, 2021, 03:22:38 PM
They need to put 10k on the capacity anyway. Doesn't matter if you fill it every week. 10 games per season with 50k over 5 years  and it pays for itself,
don't understand your maths, mate.
10,000 incremental seats @£30 per seat x 20 home games per season = £6m incremental funds per season. You could add more for extra catering and shop sales but it will take more than 5 years to repay the cost of rebuilding the North Stand, I'm guessing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on November 18, 2021, 03:28:44 PM
They need to put 10k on the capacity anyway. Doesn't matter if you fill it every week. 10 games per season with 50k over 5 years  and it pays for itself,
don't understand your maths, mate.
10,000 incremental seats @£30 per seat x 20 home games per season = £6m incremental funds per season. You could add more for extra catering and shop sales but it will take more than 5 years to repay the cost of rebuilding the North Stand, I'm guessing.

It's a bit out of date and I can't find it now but I remember reading something from about 7-8 years ago where you can add about 50-60% to the ticket price as the average spend for a visit to the ground. so £9m would be closer to the real value.

However that's also largely missing the point. whether it takes 5 years or 50 years to pay for the initial investment is excluded from FFP but the extra profits are included so you're addig £9m a year to the transfer and wage budget and, in a case like ours, you're doing it without putting any debt on th eclub because the stadium is owned by the parent company not the club.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on November 18, 2021, 03:34:06 PM
They need to put 10k on the capacity anyway. Doesn't matter if you fill it every week. 10 games per season with 50k over 5 years  and it pays for itself,
don't understand your maths, mate.
10,000 incremental seats @£30 per seat x 20 home games per season = £6m incremental funds per season. You could add more for extra catering and shop sales but it will take more than 5 years to repay the cost of rebuilding the North Stand, I'm guessing.

The season ticket waiting list so that would be another minimum 300 per year for a % of those 10,000 as well as having the capacity to accommodate all the plastic reds etc for the top games. Plus you'd hope we'd get a few league Cup/FA Cup (yeah, yeah I know) games against big teams. European games as well which is what we're aiming for. We should be looking at getting a decent distance in the Europa cup if we qualify so big games against other "name" teams in the latter stages. All about being ready to capitalise on success rather than wait for it to appear.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 18, 2021, 03:44:52 PM
I would agree regarding building before the success, but our unprecedented situation is creating a demand (and waiting list) that wasn't there before, and changing supporter habits as a result, making it a necessity to get a season ticket and go every week if you want to go at all.

I read a Rangers fan regarding their situation with wildly fluctuating attendances in the late seventies/early eighties, where people used to pick and choose as there was always capacity, but when the ground was redeveloped and Souness came in it was suddenly harder to get tickets, and then suddenly there's 40,000 against Falkirk and St Johnstone and everyone's got season tickets.

A few years of keeping people wanting, coupled with relative success, might pay off more in the long run.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on November 18, 2021, 03:53:11 PM
In the maths above you're all looking at turnover, not profit.  No idea what the margins are but I'd presume you're more than halfing catering income for example.

That's before we look at the average spend being 50-60% of ticket price.  For a £40 ticket are people really spending £20-£25 quid per ticket on a match day (on average)?  That sounds nuts to me.

Either way I agree with Mr E.  No way a stand pays for itself in 5 years.  The FFP point is a good one though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on November 18, 2021, 03:59:32 PM
Maybe, I just think 50k+ is about the sweetspot for a team with pretentions to regularly compete in Europe and it wouldn't be too expensive to achieve it relatively short term. Certainly teams with the same objective like Spurs/Arsenal/Westham/Newcastle are all in that 50-60k area while Everton are looking at that with their new stadium.



Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Zouch Villa on November 18, 2021, 04:06:43 PM
They could do with showing they can service the 40k people that are already in the ground before thinking about increasing capacity.  I’ve given up trying to buy any food or drink in the concourse areas as the speed, choice and quality of service is atrocious.  I appreciate it will be argued that this infrastructure will be addressed as part of any redevelopment, but the issue isn’t just about space and facilities.  The co-ordination, training and delivery of these services is just woefully inadequate.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on November 18, 2021, 04:08:15 PM
I would agree regarding building before the success, but our unprecedented situation is creating a demand (and waiting list) that wasn't there before, and changing supporter habits as a result, making it a necessity to get a season ticket and go every week if you want to go at all.

I read a Rangers fan regarding their situation with wildly fluctuating attendances in the late seventies/early eighties, where people used to pick and choose as there was always capacity, but when the ground was redeveloped and Souness came in it was suddenly harder to get tickets, and then suddenly there's 40,000 against Falkirk and St Johnstone and everyone's got season tickets.

A few years of keeping people wanting, coupled with relative success, might pay off more in the long run.
I think that's a very good point.  From NSWE's point of view, if you expand the ground capacity by 10k, you're really going to want to be backing that up by selling another ~9k+ season tickets.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on November 18, 2021, 04:10:38 PM
Maybe, I just think 50k+ is about the sweetspot for a team with pretentions to regularly compete in Europe and it wouldn't be too expensive to achieve it relatively short term. Certainly teams with the same objective like Spurs/Arsenal/Westham/Newcastle are all in that 50-60k area while Everton are looking at that with their new stadium.

Yep I agree with this.  We should be aiming for that for sure.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on November 18, 2021, 04:14:12 PM
They could do with showing they can service the 40k people that are already in the ground before thinking about increasing capacity.  I’ve given up trying to buy any food or drink in the concourse areas as the speed, choice and quality of service is atrocious.  I appreciate it will be argued that this infrastructure will be addressed as part of any redevelopment, but the issue isn’t just about space and facilities.  The co-ordination, training and delivery of these services is just woefully inadequate.
These are two entirely different issues and absolutely not mutualy exclusive.  I must admit I never understand staffing levels at major events, the amount of extra you could sell just by doubling staff at £8,50 to £9.00 per hr must be a no brainer.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 18, 2021, 04:15:17 PM
That reminds me - I must remember to emigrate. Oh, I did. And yet...

That made me snort laughter. Snaughter.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on November 18, 2021, 04:16:23 PM
In the maths above you're all looking at turnover, not profit.  No idea what the margins are but I'd presume you're more than halfing catering income for example.

That's before we look at the average spend being 50-60% of ticket price.  For a £40 ticket are people really spending £20-£25 quid per ticket on a match day (on average)?  That sounds nuts to me.

Either way I agree with Mr E.  No way a stand pays for itself in 5 years.  The FFP point is a good one though.


As I said the figure is a bit out of date (I can't remember when it was from but it was at least 10 years ago I'd think) so might not be so high now, the point really, as you've said, was the FFP part.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: wince on November 18, 2021, 06:30:31 PM
Fred is high on Cake.

Wait till he finds out Villa Park is actually paedophile disguised as a football stadium.

I’d just like to point out that other Freds are available.
But you don’t doom monger.......
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on November 18, 2021, 06:32:19 PM
They could do with showing they can service the 40k people that are already in the ground before thinking about increasing capacity.  I’ve given up trying to buy any food or drink in the concourse areas as the speed, choice and quality of service is atrocious.  I appreciate it will be argued that this infrastructure will be addressed as part of any redevelopment, but the issue isn’t just about space and facilities.  The co-ordination, training and delivery of these services is just woefully inadequate.
I absolutely feel your pain on this. The match day experience in the ground is woefully inadequate. I'd like to know if the club is aware of this. Last time I was in the Holte Lower not only could I not get to hand over the money that was burning a hole in my pocket in exchange for food or drinks none of the tv's were working to catch up on the latest scores or show highlights of our first half.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Fred Crump on November 18, 2021, 06:48:54 PM
Fred is high on Cake.

Wait till he finds out Villa Park is actually paedophile disguised as a football stadium.

I’d just like to point out that other Freds are available.
But you don’t doom monger.......

True Wince,  but I can do a mean impression of Private Fraser from Dad’s Army  ;D
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Fred Crump on November 18, 2021, 06:50:04 PM
….and I’m pretty good at quote fails …
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: astonvilla82 on November 18, 2021, 06:51:37 PM
Disappointed that no TV on during the game, due to eyesight problem it was a godsend, me and the son had pie and beers last home game which wasn't very nice, considering the price service was so slow and poor as well, we won't be having anymore.Any ideas why the TV's were turned off during the match?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on November 18, 2021, 08:09:52 PM
Just tried to look at the ticket site and it effected my Shatners Bassoon so badly that it took me all day to cross the road. It's a fucking disgrace Villa!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 18, 2021, 08:35:13 PM
Don't get me started on the catering

I have mentioned this a couple of times before,this season the Service has been an absolute shambolic disgrace. We are a Premier Division Football Club in 2021 operating like a league one outfit , at best. I am not alone either, I have seen people infuriated at Half Time. Thousands of Supporters wanting to spend Money and ending up storming off in absolute disgust.

They know the demand so why not 'prepare' in the 45 minutes for the rush? have the pies and burgers lined up and the beers ready? instead we have staff looking clueless at empty Hot Counters and then the CANS of lager being poured into PLASTIC cups? utter madness.


Back to the Manchester City clash

Not many more sold today despite a fantastic Press Conference with our new manager. Press banging on about our famous  'waiting list' . let's hope we get bums on seats for the City game because I don't think the new Manager will expect to see empty seats AT ALL . We have hyped the support up so much it sounds like we have thousands of fans knocking at the ticket office door begging for a seat. where are the mystery 20,000?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on November 18, 2021, 08:51:34 PM
People will wait to see how we do against Brighton and maybe Palace first. If we're utterly garbage xand the match is on TV they may choose not to try. The traffic situation for evening matches is also abysmal and off-putting.

I still don't know why they removed the police and the one way system that was in place to get folk away from the ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 18, 2021, 09:05:45 PM
Yep not looking forward to getting to the Man City match one little bit. Going to have to brave the A14, M6 and A38 at rush hour. Deep, deep, joy.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on November 18, 2021, 09:10:36 PM
Try it from forty miles further to the south east.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on November 18, 2021, 09:11:07 PM
M62 and M6 South for me. Grim, grim, grim.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: astonvilla82 on November 18, 2021, 09:14:24 PM
When I was sitted in the upper holte years ago, they poured the beers and had them lined up for the halftime rush, very efficient and it was from the pump in plastic pint sizes
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on November 18, 2021, 09:46:45 PM
When I was sitted in the upper holte years ago, they poured the beers and had them lined up for the halftime rush, very efficient and it was from the pump in plastic pint sizes
Certain beers at certain kiosks not all of them have cans which they pour when ordered. At a fucking snails pace!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 18, 2021, 10:20:14 PM
When I was sitted in the upper holte years ago, they poured the beers and had them lined up for the halftime rush, very efficient and it was from the pump in plastic pint sizes

I remember that.

I used to sit in the Holte End upper many years ago and remember how efficient it used to be, although having multiple kiosks helped.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on November 19, 2021, 02:33:37 PM
When I was sitted in the upper holte years ago, they poured the beers and had them lined up for the halftime rush, very efficient and it was from the pump in plastic pint sizes

I remember that.

I used to sit in the Holte End upper many years ago and remember how efficient it used to be, although having multiple kiosks helped.
My friend had a season ticket in the main stand at the sty and whenever it rained he got wet cos there's a hole in the roof where the rain pisses through. I never understood why he didn't just move to one of the thousands of empty seats.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: adrenachrome on November 19, 2021, 02:52:53 PM
It's all well and good saying Fred has been at the crack pipe or high on skunk or spice or suchlike, but he makes some pertinent points.

What they pertain to is anyone's guess, but there is little doubt he has an axe to grind.

For my own part, I have to say sitting in the Skyline stand at Edgbaston in April, May or September is no bowl of cherries.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on November 19, 2021, 03:01:29 PM
For my own part, I have to say sitting in the Skyline stand at Edgbaston in April, May or September is no bowl of cherries.

Worth it for the view, though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nelly on November 19, 2021, 03:34:24 PM
When I was sitted in the upper holte years ago, they poured the beers and had them lined up for the halftime rush, very efficient and it was from the pump in plastic pint sizes

I remember that.

I used to sit in the Holte End upper many years ago and remember how efficient it used to be, although having multiple kiosks helped.
My friend had a season ticket in the main stand at the sty and whenever it rained he got wet cos there's a hole in the roof where the rain pisses through. I never understood why he didn't just move to one of the thousands of empty seats.

Probably better entertainment than whatever was happening on the grass.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 19, 2021, 03:36:53 PM
When I was sitted in the upper holte years ago, they poured the beers and had them lined up for the halftime rush, very efficient and it was from the pump in plastic pint sizes

I remember that.

I used to sit in the Holte End upper many years ago and remember how efficient it used to be, although having multiple kiosks helped.
My friend had a season ticket in the main stand at the sty and whenever it rained he got wet cos there's a hole in the roof where the rain pisses through. I never understood why he didn't just move to one of the thousands of empty seats.

Probably better entertainment than whatever was happening on the grass.

The VIP seats come with a bar of soap and a flannel
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on November 19, 2021, 06:50:15 PM
When I was sitted in the upper holte years ago, they poured the beers and had them lined up for the halftime rush, very efficient and it was from the pump in plastic pint sizes

I remember that.

I used to sit in the Holte End upper many years ago and remember how efficient it used to be, although having multiple kiosks helped.
My friend had a season ticket in the main stand at the sty and whenever it rained he got wet cos there's a hole in the roof where the rain pisses through. I never understood why he didn't just move to one of the thousands of empty seats.

Probably better entertainment than whatever was happening on the grass.

The VIP seats come with a bar of soap and a flannel
Chuckle🤣🤣
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SaddVillan on November 19, 2021, 07:15:51 PM
Because being a Bluenose, he's half-soaked to begin with, so why not finish the job?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Demitri_C on November 20, 2021, 06:23:58 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/MgsgzQx/20211120-182140.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MgsgzQx)

Love love love
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on November 20, 2021, 06:34:41 PM
Is Chrissy flipping the bird at some whinging Villa fans in the next box ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 20, 2021, 06:41:58 PM
Is Chrissy flipping the bird at some whinging Villa fans in the next box ?

Risso I think.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on November 20, 2021, 07:08:59 PM
Is Chrissy flipping the bird at some whinging Villa fans in the next box ?

I think he was just indicating to Fred5tone how many seats were left for the Manchester City game.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Beard82 on November 20, 2021, 07:11:00 PM
Is Chrissy flipping the bird at some whinging Villa fans in the next box ?

I think he was just indicating to Fred5tone how many seats were left for the Manchester City game.
Ha - brilliant
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on November 20, 2021, 07:48:50 PM
Amongst all the joy of a great win, a special mention to the kiosk in Upper Trinity that ran out of hot drinks at half time. Brilliant.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 20, 2021, 08:07:23 PM
Amongst all the joy of a great win, a special mention to the kiosk in Upper Trinity that ran out of hot drinks at half time. Brilliant.

Forgot your flask, Des?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on November 20, 2021, 08:54:35 PM
Amongst all the joy of a great win, a special mention to the kiosk in Upper Trinity that ran out of hot drinks at half time. Brilliant.

Forgot your flask, Des?

Certainly not! Hip flask is a given
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on November 20, 2021, 10:37:21 PM
Amongst all the joy of a great win, a special mention to the kiosk in Upper Trinity that ran out of hot drinks at half time. Brilliant.
The Holte pub was out of draught lager an hour before the game. Reduced to selling the (warm) bottled variety.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sdwbvf on November 21, 2021, 08:19:05 AM
If we are complaining I couldn't buy a programme because no outlet that takes cards sells them. I had no cash on me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 21, 2021, 01:14:08 PM
Are the owners so desperate for revenue that they are papering over the whole stadium with Cazoo and Nappa.
The nice thing about the Trunity was that they took the style of panelling from the old Trunity. This is now all covered up with the monotonous logos.
They really need to sort out the pre match music and maybe give 30 seconds before kick off to allow the crowd noise.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 21, 2021, 02:41:15 PM
Catering an absolute disgrace as usual. Maybe the owners should leave their box and 'experience'  the Half Time hospitality us peasants have to put up with

Ticket update

Still hundreds left for the Man City clash.
Thought yesterday's win might bring out some of the 20,000 on the waiting list
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on November 21, 2021, 03:42:19 PM
Hundreds left, so an attendance mid-week of 40,000 for a televised game. Remind me of which other clubs in the region who've done that in the past 40 years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 21, 2021, 03:44:54 PM
I'll be honest, if I didn't season tickets, I'd probably give it a miss. Getting there during rush hour will be a right arseache, and then I probably won't be home until after midnight.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on November 21, 2021, 04:05:15 PM
Hundreds left, so an attendance mid-week of 40,000 for a televised game. Remind me of which other clubs in the region who've done that in the past 40 years.

Just ignore him. It's for the best.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clark W Griswold on November 21, 2021, 04:31:15 PM
Catering an absolute disgrace as usual. Maybe the owners should leave their box and 'experience'  the Half Time hospitality us peasants have to put up with

Ticket update

Still hundreds left for the Man City clash.
Thought yesterday's win might bring out some of the 20,000 on the waiting list

Were your chips cold and your beer warm? At least you know your station in life I suppose though. If there is only ‘hundreds left’ before they’ve even gone on general sale in a ground with a capacity of 43000 or so that doesn’t sound too outrageous to me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sdwbvf on November 21, 2021, 04:38:49 PM
I'd assumed they must be on general sale from the hyperbole. They'll go in minutes.

My chips were lovely and fresh but I hadn'trealised I could have cheese on them. And I don't drink beer so I can't comment.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on November 21, 2021, 05:08:53 PM
It is strange that we know that every two weeks we have about an hour (in total) to make catering revenue. And that’s it until next time. And we’ve been fucking it up for the last 20 years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 21, 2021, 05:20:42 PM
Tickets for Manchester City are on "General Sale' you just need booking history or be a registered member.

The catering is atrocious and the Football Club must be losing thousands of pounds each match.

For many people the Half Time pie and pint is part of their experience and day out and I've seen dozens of people storm off looking angry and a little upset
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on November 21, 2021, 05:26:15 PM
I've seen dozens of people storm off looking angry and a little upset

Tinder's not for everyone.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clark W Griswold on November 21, 2021, 06:23:29 PM
Well, all I can say is they’re doing their bit to keep the obesity problem in check. I’m not sure how important a food kiosk at the match should be for most people for a 3 o clock Saturday game, certainly for anyone that live within 20 miles of the ground. Surely you can eat before and after at home, although if circumstances mean that you need something I know that the chippy on Bevington Road used to be good. We used to use it on night matches and order the chicken tikka in fresh naan which was divine although slightly difficult to eat in the street and I remember enjoying it so much that if I dropped a bit of chicken on the floor I’d be as disappointed as us losing the game later on.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on November 21, 2021, 06:31:55 PM
It's not essential but it's a missed opportunity.

If they could sort the offering out and encourage fans in to the ground earlier as a result I have no doubt they could generate £10 extra a head no problem - it's two beers.

Do that on average for a full house and you've got an extra £7.5m a season in revenue.

On its own it's not going to change the world, but if the club's going to aim for perfection that's one very easy win.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sdwbvf on November 21, 2021, 06:32:38 PM
More important to me would have been getting food and drink at New Street after the game. As it was I got home at 9pm having had nothing since the chips and coke before the game. No time
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 21, 2021, 06:37:34 PM
Well, all I can say is they’re doing their bit to keep the obesity problem in check. I’m not sure how important a food kiosk at the match should be for most people for a 3 o clock Saturday game, certainly for anyone that live within 20 miles of the ground. Surely you can eat before and after at home, although if circumstances mean that you need something I know that the chippy on Bevington Road used to be good. We used to use it on night matches and order the chicken tikka in fresh naan which was divine although slightly difficult to eat in the street and I remember enjoying it so much that if I dropped a bit of chicken on the floor I’d be as disappointed as us losing the game later on.

Yeah, I don't get the absolute burning urge people have to get a 15 minute pint at HT or to have something to eat at 3.45 on a Saturday afternoon. Don't get me wrong, I like eating and drinking, and the thing I like most about 3pm Saturday kick offs is a couple of hours in a pleasant pub somewhere in town and some nice food. I just don't get the burning urge to get more of it at half time

However, having said that, if people really want to be spending more money on food and drink at the ground then the club should be absolutely on the ball and making it as easy for them to sell as much of it as they possibly can.

It just seems to be impossible for them to manage. A problem which persists through owners.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on November 21, 2021, 06:49:35 PM
I've seen dozens of people storm off looking angry and a little upset

Tinder's not for everyone.

Snigger…..
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LukeJames on November 21, 2021, 06:49:56 PM
I've seen dozens of people storm off looking angry and a little upset

Tinder's not for everyone.

Ffs 😂
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on November 21, 2021, 06:53:33 PM
The whole infrastructure of our stands as we learnt during the Lerner years is sub standard and severely restricts the ability to provide a vaguely coherent catering offer. Until we redevelop it will be the same, that said there are things you can do to make it better in terms of staffing and technology which would help. I used to be a reasonably regular attendee of the Holte Suite but that was useless in terms of service, I either eat in town or the Barton’s beforehand for decent food and beer.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 21, 2021, 07:17:00 PM
The city centre was absolutely packed yesterday with people attending the Christmas Market and then packing out the pubs, so getting a meal in my favourite Bar was an absolute nightmare. Gave up waiting in the end and went Home feeling very angry and hungry.

Ended up having Fish and Chips ,which were nice but the portions seemed to have shrunk
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on November 21, 2021, 07:18:35 PM
The city centre was absolutely packed yesterday with people attending the Christmas Market and then packing out the pubs, so getting a meal in my favourite Bar was an absolute nightmare. Gave up waiting in the end and went Home feeling very angry and hungry.

Ended up having Fish and Chips ,which were nice but the portions seemed to have shrunk

That doesn't sound like you. You ok hun?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LukeJames on November 21, 2021, 07:19:37 PM
The city centre was absolutely packed yesterday with people attending the Christmas Market and then packing out the pubs, so getting a meal in my favourite Bar was an absolute nightmare.

How was Wetherspoons?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: astonvilla82 on November 21, 2021, 07:20:54 PM
Normally wouldn't pay these prices for food and drinks, but as I haven't purchased any football gear for many years,I don't mind buying it at half time, but the lager is yuk and the steak pie was overcooked,at nearly over 8 pounds I expect decent service,at the moment stopped buying it due to length of queues in the lower holte
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 22, 2021, 02:16:14 PM
More Anger and Outrage from Supporters

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-trains-gerrard-witton-22236342

Absolutely Shambolic

Fans should be able to Travel with relative ease and get Hot Food without so much chaos

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 22, 2021, 02:34:45 PM
More Anger and Outrage from Supporters

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-trains-gerrard-witton-22236342

Absolutely Shambolic

Fans should be able to Travel with relative ease and get Hot Food without so much chaos



What has the shambolic transport infrastructure got to do with NSWE?

If it makes you feel any better, I had a lovely meal in the Bartons before the match and missed all the traffic by detouring through Saltley and Alum Rock, a couple of miles extra but I sailed home.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan82 on November 22, 2021, 02:44:31 PM
Villa Park is, always has been and always will be a great stadium. However, it has sort of got left behind since about 2005. We were all set for some redevelopment of the Witton end in 2010, in time for the Olympics if I am not mistaken? That never happened and 11 years later we are now crying out for it. It's not just a capacity issue, it's a facilities issue. The North Stand was great in its day but that day has passed. Also, we need a museum!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 22, 2021, 02:48:25 PM
More Anger and Outrage from Supporters

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-trains-gerrard-witton-22236342

Absolutely Shambolic

Fans should be able to Travel with relative ease and get Hot Food without so much chaos



What has the shambolic transport infrastructure got to do with NSWE?

If it makes you feel any better, I had a lovely meal in the Bartons before the match and missed all the traffic by detouring through Saltley and Alum Rock, a couple of miles extra but I sailed home.

A lot of our supporters are blaming the Villa for something beyond their control and offering up suggestions that are totally impractical.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on November 22, 2021, 02:53:02 PM
Villa Park is and always had been a great stadium. However, it has sort of got left behind since about 2005. We were all set for some redevelopment of the Witton end in 2010, in time for the Olympics if I am not mistaken? That never happened and 11 years later we are now crying out for it. It's not just a capacity issue, it's a facilities issue. The North Stand was great in its day but that day has passed. Also, we need a museum!

Facilities is definitely the biggest problem, North and Witton Lane/DE stands are awful on that front, the other 2 are probably about the bare minimum you'd be looking for. As ever though the problem isn't as simple as knocking things down and replacing them, there's just not enough space to build the sort of concourses you'd want, particularly on the DE side. I can see why it's taking a long time to sort because taking the time to get it right is better than rushing in and making a mess of things.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 22, 2021, 03:11:53 PM
Getting away from Villa Park is easily the worst thing about it. The infrastructure around is dismal at best, and there’s no will from the police to get the traffic moving afterwards.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on November 22, 2021, 03:21:29 PM
If you're prepared to walk for 10 minutes there's plenty of places to park where you can get away within about 5-10 mins of getting back to your car.  And that's without having to race from the ground or leave early.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on November 22, 2021, 03:24:49 PM
If you're prepared to walk for 10 minutes there's plenty of places to park where you can get away within about 5-10 mins of getting back to your car.  And that's without having to race from the ground or leave early.

When I had a seasobn ticket with my mate we used to always park near Wing Yip (so more like 15minutes) and never had any problems before or after games.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 22, 2021, 03:35:49 PM
I hope we never move from Villa Park. But with that comes the inevitable challenges around moving traffic. It will never be perfect and will only get worse if we expand the ground and add more people in and around the ground on match day. Even the answer of a brand new stadium elsewhere doesn't fix everything as ayone who has been to a US sports event as an example will tell you.So can it be improved? Probably. But the club will never be to factor in or fully account for challenges outside of its control.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 22, 2021, 03:45:14 PM
As mentioned above there's plenty of room and parking if you're willing to walk 10/15 minutes . Plenty of land where the club could put on shuttle busses back to City Centre and encourage parking away from the stadium. The club should be doing all they can to resolve this problem. 

I'd encourage you all to email Andy Street and demand improvements to Public Transport offerings on a Match Day.

There's plenty of room at the back of the North Stand and Holte End to have multistorey Car Parks

I have been to a few Stadiums around Europe and the Transport to the stadium is first class at the elite German clubs and the likes of Ajax in the Netherlands. Frequent,fast and comfortable Trains/shuttles/Trams with little hassle or stress.

I feel as a Club we are really falling behind some other clubs in terms of facilities and experience.


Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan82 on November 22, 2021, 03:46:20 PM
Villa Park is and always had been a great stadium. However, it has sort of got left behind since about 2005. We were all set for some redevelopment of the Witton end in 2010, in time for the Olympics if I am not mistaken? That never happened and 11 years later we are now crying out for it. It's not just a capacity issue, it's a facilities issue. The North Stand was great in its day but that day has passed. Also, we need a museum!

Facilities is definitely the biggest problem, North and Witton Lane/DE stands are awful on that front, the other 2 are probably about the bare minimum you'd be looking for. As ever though the problem isn't as simple as knocking things down and replacing them, there's just not enough space to build the sort of concourses you'd want, particularly on the DE side. I can see why it's taking a long time to sort because taking the time to get it right is better than rushing in and making a mess of things.

You would think there is space behind the North Stand for a serious upgrade on the facilities Villa Park has to offer? Restaurants, bars, the lot? I take your point on the Witton Lane side but with a new North Stand we could  maybe compensate on capacity on the Witton Lane side to improve its facilities? I wonder could we (again) move the road on that side to give us more space or built over it like we did with the Trinity?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on November 22, 2021, 03:47:06 PM
If you're prepared to walk for 10 minutes there's plenty of places to park where you can get away within about 5-10 mins of getting back to your car.  And that's without having to race from the ground or leave early.

I agree. I tend to deliberately park nearly a mile away from the ground now to avoid the post match traffic carnage. Even if there are spaces closer to the ground I’ll avoid them as I can’t be doing with barely moving for 30-60 minutes.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 22, 2021, 03:48:25 PM
As mentioned above there's plenty of room and parking if you're willing to walk 10/15 minutes . Plenty of land where the club could put on shuttle busses back to City Centre and encourage parking away from the stadium. The club should be doing all they can to resolve this problem. 

I'd encourage you all to email Andy Street and demand improvements to Public Transport offerings on a Match Day.

There's plenty of room at the back of the North Stand and Holte End to have multistorey Car Parks

I have been to a few Stadiums around Europe and the Transport to the stadium is first class at the elite German clubs and the likes of Ajax in the Netherlands. Frequent,fast and comfortable Trains/shuttles/Trams with little hassle or stress.

I feel as a Club we are really falling behind some other clubs in terms of facilities and experience.




I hate to break it to you, Einstein, but you can't just set yourselves up as a bus company or build car parks wherever you fancy.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on November 22, 2021, 03:49:07 PM
More Anger and Outrage from Supporters

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-trains-gerrard-witton-22236342

Absolutely Shambolic

Fans should be able to Travel with relative ease and get Hot Food without so much chaos



What has the shambolic transport infrastructure got to do with NSWE?

If it makes you feel any better, I had a lovely meal in the Bartons before the match and missed all the traffic by detouring through Saltley and Alum Rock, a couple of miles extra but I sailed home.

A lot of our supporters are blaming the Villa for something beyond their control and offering up suggestions that are totally impractical.
It's not really under Travel WM's control either - Birmingham New Street is an incredibly busy station that's pretty much operating at capacity.  It's not like they have the option to throw on a load of extra trains - there'd be nowhere for them to go.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 22, 2021, 03:55:15 PM
More Anger and Outrage from Supporters

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-trains-gerrard-witton-22236342

Absolutely Shambolic

Fans should be able to Travel with relative ease and get Hot Food without so much chaos



What has the shambolic transport infrastructure got to do with NSWE?

If it makes you feel any better, I had a lovely meal in the Bartons before the match and missed all the traffic by detouring through Saltley and Alum Rock, a couple of miles extra but I sailed home.

A lot of our supporters are blaming the Villa for something beyond their control and offering up suggestions that are totally impractical.
It's not really under Travel WM's control either - Birmingham New Street is an incredibly busy station that's pretty much operating at capacity.  It's not like they have the option to throw on a load of extra trains - there'd be nowhere for them to go.

There's rarely much delay getting the trains into New Street. It's the lack of trains in the first place that's the problem.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on November 22, 2021, 04:27:20 PM
More Anger and Outrage from Supporters

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-trains-gerrard-witton-22236342

Absolutely Shambolic

Fans should be able to Travel with relative ease and get Hot Food without so much chaos



What has the shambolic transport infrastructure got to do with NSWE?

If it makes you feel any better, I had a lovely meal in the Bartons before the match and missed all the traffic by detouring through Saltley and Alum Rock, a couple of miles extra but I sailed home.

A lot of our supporters are blaming the Villa for something beyond their control and offering up suggestions that are totally impractical.
It's not really under Travel WM's control either - Birmingham New Street is an incredibly busy station that's pretty much operating at capacity.  It's not like they have the option to throw on a load of extra trains - there'd be nowhere for them to go.

There's rarely much delay getting the trains into New Street. It's the lack of trains in the first place that's the problem.

Quite, just 1 or 2 extra 6 carriage trains coming into Witton/Aston at about 5:15 would solve the problem for rail customers, though you have still got the platform capacity issue at New st to worry about. Maybe 1 extra train up to four oaks and one to Walsall’s park and ride would help for people heading north. I still don’t know why a fleet of buses maybe 5-10 in total can’t be used as well. As you say Dave a multi agency approach is reqd from The Mayor to BCC to WM trains and Nat Exp Busses. Villa may have to contribute some costs but it surely can’t be that hard to sort it out.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdward on November 22, 2021, 04:46:11 PM
The police concentrate on getting the away supporters coaches out and on to Spaghetti Junction as quickly and efficiently as possible, then that's them done with traffic control.
I can't see anything changing, it's up to the supporters to make their way to and from the ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Smith on November 22, 2021, 04:50:07 PM
Back in the70s and 80s WMPTE ran special buses from opposite The Cabin in town to outside the school on Manor Road and then back again afterwards. It was a single drop off and they probably had about 6 buses running for a couple of hours before kick off and then an hour afterwards. They were always overcrowded but they did the job. They could surely utilise bus lanes on the main roads to implement something similar.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on November 22, 2021, 05:12:39 PM
As mentioned above there's plenty of room and parking if you're willing to walk 10/15 minutes . Plenty of land where the club could put on shuttle busses back to City Centre and encourage parking away from the stadium. The club should be doing all they can to resolve this problem. 

I'd encourage you all to email Andy Street and demand improvements to Public Transport offerings on a Match Day.

There's plenty of room at the back of the North Stand and Holte End to have multistorey Car Parks

I have been to a few Stadiums around Europe and the Transport to the stadium is first class at the elite German clubs and the likes of Ajax in the Netherlands. Frequent,fast and comfortable Trains/shuttles/Trams with little hassle or stress.

I feel as a Club we are really falling behind some other clubs in terms of facilities and experience.

Good idea, what response did you get?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on November 22, 2021, 05:25:13 PM
As mentioned above there's plenty of room and parking if you're willing to walk 10/15 minutes . Plenty of land where the club could put on shuttle busses back to City Centre and encourage parking away from the stadium. The club should be doing all they can to resolve this problem. 

I'd encourage you all to email Andy Street and demand improvements to Public Transport offerings on a Match Day.

There's plenty of room at the back of the North Stand and Holte End to have multistorey Car Parks

I have been to a few Stadiums around Europe and the Transport to the stadium is first class at the elite German clubs and the likes of Ajax in the Netherlands. Frequent,fast and comfortable Trains/shuttles/Trams with little hassle or stress.

I feel as a Club we are really falling behind some other clubs in terms of facilities and experience.

Good idea, what response did you get?

That the other two stands would be open soo. KRO SOTV
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on November 22, 2021, 05:36:43 PM
Massive queue at Aston station after the last game
The worst thing being they don’t let many people on that platform so the last few times it’s left half empty

I mean on my carriage it was 25% full when it left Aston With a queue of hundreds still down below
That’s ridiculous and needs to better organisation
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on November 22, 2021, 05:42:08 PM
A multi story car park behind the Holte End? Yeah, ok.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 22, 2021, 05:47:48 PM
A multi story car park behind the Holte End? Yeah, ok.

Christ, imagine trying to get out of that!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on November 22, 2021, 05:48:11 PM
A multi story car park behind the Holte End? Yeah, ok.

Wouldn't work, we'd probably have to go the Monaco route  i.e. build the multi-storey car park and stick the ground on top.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 22, 2021, 06:08:15 PM
As mentioned above there's plenty of room and parking if you're willing to walk 10/15 minutes . Plenty of land where the club could put on shuttle busses back to City Centre and encourage parking away from the stadium. The club should be doing all they can to resolve this problem. 

I'd encourage you all to email Andy Street and demand improvements to Public Transport offerings on a Match Day.

There's plenty of room at the back of the North Stand and Holte End to have multistorey Car Parks

I have been to a few Stadiums around Europe and the Transport to the stadium is first class at the elite German clubs and the likes of Ajax in the Netherlands. Frequent,fast and comfortable Trains/shuttles/Trams with little hassle or stress.

I feel as a Club we are really falling behind some other clubs in terms of facilities and experience.

Good idea, what response did you get?

Awaiting for a response. He's quite active in my local area with the councillors so hopefully he will respond. I know it's not a local issue to me but i'll also contact my very good local councillor.

I'm sure the Club will be well aware of the issue and hopefully a solution can be put in place.

I guess with losing many of the Pubs in the area it has not helped at all. A few thousand heading for the City Centre would have stayed back for a Drink in years gone by.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: luke95 on November 22, 2021, 06:19:27 PM
Ffs dont ask him to lay on a tram service for matchday at Villa Park .
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on November 22, 2021, 06:51:58 PM
Er isn’t this a natural bi product of 40000 people leaving a football stadium at virtually the same time like?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on November 22, 2021, 07:04:23 PM
Er isn’t this a natural bi product of 40000 people leaving a football stadium at virtually the same time like?
Well yes, but if you read the reports it sounds like the orgainisation is piss poor.  Trains shouldnn't be leaving half full when there's still huege queues waiting for them.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 22, 2021, 07:11:23 PM
As mentioned above there's plenty of room and parking if you're willing to walk 10/15 minutes . Plenty of land where the club could put on shuttle busses back to City Centre and encourage parking away from the stadium. The club should be doing all they can to resolve this problem. 

I'd encourage you all to email Andy Street and demand improvements to Public Transport offerings on a Match Day.

There's plenty of room at the back of the North Stand and Holte End to have multistorey Car Parks

I have been to a few Stadiums around Europe and the Transport to the stadium is first class at the elite German clubs and the likes of Ajax in the Netherlands. Frequent,fast and comfortable Trains/shuttles/Trams with little hassle or stress.

I feel as a Club we are really falling behind some other clubs in terms of facilities and experience.

Good idea, what response did you get?

That the other two stands would be open soo. KRO SOTV


Ha ha ha!

Excellent.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 22, 2021, 07:20:14 PM
The season before last, I tried a range of different ways of getting to the match.

The most enjoyable route involved train into town, drinking and eating somewhere nice for a few hours, then an Uber to the ground. Then on the way back, taking our chances getting a cab on the Trinity Rd, accepting the fact that sometimes it'd be a mini-cab and they'd rip you off on the price, but it seemed a reasonable expense to occur given there were a couple of us. Then a train home from Snow Hill.

I'd always driven before that season, but a couple of times I parked at Star City. Yeah, it's a long walk, but it's free and relatively easy to get out of and back onto the motorway. Also that side, the Power League is generally a decent place to park and a quick getaway normally doable.

I do think there's a difference, though, in that if you've been going there for years, you know these various options whereas in these days the influx of more people who don't go that regularly, combined with full houses week in week out (EXCEPT FOR MAN CITY!!11!! OMG!!!) make it tougher for those who don't know the ropes.

It'd all be much easier with decent public transport.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 22, 2021, 10:48:54 PM
Ticket Update

Email received informing me that Manchester City and the Leicester fixtures are on General Sale to those with a Booking History from 16/17 onwards.  Think the Club are probably regretting the Ticket pricing for the Man City match.

Plenty of availability for the Leicester clash..
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on November 23, 2021, 09:44:36 AM
When did this turn in to the ticket office update thread?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on November 23, 2021, 09:52:48 AM
There's a write up in Birmingham Live today about the shoddy and useless transport not being able to cope with the crowds on match days. People queuing at Aston and Witton for over two hours in the freezing cold. There's a deafening silence coming out of the club regarding the match day experience from rubbish catering to appalling crowd management post match. Are they aware? Is there anyone actually in control of the stadium and infrastructure?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on November 23, 2021, 10:06:17 AM
Ticket Update

Email received informing me that Manchester City and the Leicester fixtures are on General Sale to those with a Booking History from 16/17 onwards.  Think the Club are probably regretting the Ticket pricing for the Man City match.

Plenty of availability for the Leicester clash..
There's 1,500 left for Man City, 8 days before the game for a Wednesday Evening kick off in a match we're likely to get thumped in.  It's also on TV (via Amazon Prime) and approx 4 weeks before Christmas.

I'm not panicing about poor attendances just yet.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on November 23, 2021, 10:09:13 AM
When did this turn in to the ticket office update thread?

This. Can Wilma at least put these posts in the ticket thread to save boring the rest of us?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on November 23, 2021, 10:16:33 AM
When did this turn in to the ticket office update thread?

This. Can Wilma at least put these posts in the ticket thread to save boring the rest of us?
Hahaha great. Now we know what to call him Willllmmmaaaaa!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 23, 2021, 12:15:21 PM
Ticket Update

Email received informing me that Manchester City and the Leicester fixtures are on General Sale to those with a Booking History from 16/17 onwards.  Think the Club are probably regretting the Ticket pricing for the Man City match.

Plenty of availability for the Leicester clash..
There's 1,500 left for Man City, 8 days before the game for a Wednesday Evening kick off in a match we're likely to get thumped in.  It's also on TV (via Amazon Prime) and approx 4 weeks before Christmas.

I'm not panicing about poor attendances just yet.

I am not going.

I am picking and choosing this season (and thus far actually haven't chosen any) but that fixture would be even lower down my list of desirables than the Man United one.

Mostly because I really don't want to have to watch Grealish playing for the opposition. Abuse him all we want, but the fact is, he was a brilliant player for us and now he's doing it for someone else. I'll be fucked if I am watching that.

I wouldn't go if the club paid me £45 for the pleasure, let alone with me paying.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on November 23, 2021, 12:33:30 PM
I'll go, but as with you if I was picking and chosing games this would be at the bottom of my list.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 23, 2021, 12:55:49 PM
You can't really blame anyone at £55 for upper Trinity absolute disgrace and just shows how out of touch the club are with so many games close together at Home and on Amazon the price is an absolute disgrace. Plus there's no Junior Prices in the central areas of Upper Trinity, strange.

Maybe they should have priced it fairly so that some of the apparent 20,000 desperate for a seat could come along.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on November 23, 2021, 12:58:28 PM
You can't really blame anyone at £55 for upper Trinity absolute disgrace and just shows how out of touch the club are with so many games close together at Home and on Amazon the price is an absolute disgrace. Plus there's no Junior Prices in the central areas of Upper Trinity, strange.

Maybe they should have priced it fairly so that some of the apparent 20,000 desperate for a seat could come along.


Well given it will almost certainly sell out (or get very close), then plenty of the apparent 20,000 desperate for a seat will come along
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Pat Mustard on November 23, 2021, 01:07:49 PM
Er isn’t this a natural bi product of 40000 people leaving a football stadium at virtually the same time like?
Well yes, but if you read the reports it sounds like the orgainisation is piss poor.  Trains shouldnn't be leaving half full when there's still huege queues waiting for them.

This has been a problem since the start of the season, and presumably is down to Travel West Midlands Covid response.  The queues that are allowed to build up at Aston station are ludicrous when the platforms are half empty, and then when a train does arrive there is a mad stampede up the stairs to get on before it leaves.  Far from making things safer they are creating a dangerous bottleneck.  I messaged them about it after the first game, but got no response and it's still going on.

As a wider issue though, public transport here is an absolute joke and beyond the club's control.  As plenty of other people have pointed out, you only have to go to a match on the continent to see how much better things are, but that is all down to lack of investment in a creaky infrastructure that is 100+ years old.  It's also something we will probably have to accept for a long time to come if we want to remain at Villa Park.  The existing roads and stations around the ground simply can't cope with the demand on a matchday when they were never designed for the majority of supporters to come from much beyond walking distance, and no-one from Government is going to put in the required funds to make things significantly better. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on November 23, 2021, 01:47:06 PM
You can't really blame anyone at £55 for upper Trinity absolute disgrace and just shows how out of touch the club are with so many games close together at Home and on Amazon the price is an absolute disgrace. Plus there's no Junior Prices in the central areas of Upper Trinity, strange.

Maybe they should have priced it fairly so that some of the apparent 20,000 desperate for a seat could come along.


There's been no concessionary pricing in the middle of the UT (A4&5) since 2006. Same in the middle of the Upper Doug, I believe.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 23, 2021, 03:14:26 PM
You can't really blame anyone at £55 for upper Trinity absolute disgrace and just shows how out of touch the club are with so many games close together at Home and on Amazon the price is an absolute disgrace. Plus there's no Junior Prices in the central areas of Upper Trinity, strange.

Maybe they should have priced it fairly so that some of the apparent 20,000 desperate for a seat could come along.


There's been no concessionary pricing in the middle of the UT (A4&5) since 2006. Same in the middle of the Upper Doug, I believe.

Did not know that.
Strange to have that in place as that alone would put off a family going. Seems slightly discriminatory

We should welcome all ages in all areas of the stadium. Bizzare
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on November 23, 2021, 03:19:17 PM
Er isn’t this a natural bi product of 40000 people leaving a football stadium at virtually the same time like?
Well yes, but if you read the reports it sounds like the orgainisation is piss poor.  Trains shouldnn't be leaving half full when there's still huege queues waiting for them.

This has been a problem since the start of the season, and presumably is down to Travel West Midlands Covid response.  The queues that are allowed to build up at Aston station are ludicrous when the platforms are half empty, and then when a train does arrive there is a mad stampede up the stairs to get on before it leaves.  Far from making things safer they are creating a dangerous bottleneck.  I messaged them about it after the first game, but got no response and it's still going on.

As a wider issue though, public transport here is an absolute joke and beyond the club's control.  As plenty of other people have pointed out, you only have to go to a match on the continent to see how much better things are, but that is all down to lack of investment in a creaky infrastructure that is 100+ years old.  It's also something we will probably have to accept for a long time to come if we want to remain at Villa Park.  The existing roads and stations around the ground simply can't cope with the demand on a matchday when they were never designed for the majority of supporters to come from much beyond walking distance, and no-one from Government is going to put in the required funds to make things significantly better.
The bit about the dangerous bottleneck at Aston Station sounds alarming. Those staircases are very steep. Football fans, a mad stampede and very steep steps is not a good combination. If there was plenty of trains there wouldn't be any need to panic. Something needs to be done.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 23, 2021, 04:30:55 PM
What about Witton station?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on November 23, 2021, 04:34:06 PM
I dont know why you'd bother, it's only a 30 min walk back into town tops
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sdwbvf on November 23, 2021, 04:56:03 PM
What about Witton station?

Was well organised with 2 extra trains on Saturday. But there will still have been people waiting for over an hour.

What is the walk into town like for an out of towner?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on November 23, 2021, 05:08:05 PM
I dont know why you'd bother, it's only a 30 min walk back into town tops


I park where you do, I believe, by (what was) The Albion, and there's always plenty of folks already at the old central fire station by the time I drive past. If I'm not driving or I'm meeting people in town after, I've no qualms about walking back.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: selly park trinity on November 23, 2021, 05:24:11 PM
Does all of the above maybe equate to the fact NSWE might be looking to relocate the ground? What with the lack of info regarding a stadium expansion? Just a thought
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on November 23, 2021, 05:43:03 PM
I saw the queues outside Witton station after Saturday's game and wondered how that had got so bad.

Maybe there's an argument for a return of the free buses from places like Redditch, Tamworth, etc that appeared during Lerner's custodianship to take pressure off the infrastructure. Not sure when those ceased.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 23, 2021, 06:01:55 PM
Just had another look and to my horror the Leicester City match is also priced at £55 in the majority of remaining areas with NO CONCESSIONS . Absolute MADNESS . We should be encouraging the future,not pricing them out of a seat . Disgrace
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Smith on November 23, 2021, 06:18:32 PM
What about Witton station?

Was well organised with 2 extra trains on Saturday. But there will still have been people waiting for over an hour.

What is the walk into town like for an out of towner?

Fairly straightforward but it’s probably closer to 45 minutes than 30 unless you’re particularly fit. Not a walk I’d recommend after a night game and you’ll be sucking in petrol fumes most of the way.

To those that drive has the clean air charge made much difference ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on November 23, 2021, 06:35:19 PM
A walk back to Star city is 30 minutes so a walk back to Brum centre is going to be longer than that unless you’re walking along with Katharine Merry
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on November 23, 2021, 06:35:23 PM
To those that drive has the clean air charge made much difference ?
Given that for petrol cars it seems anything under fifteen years old doesn't incur a charge, I'd imagine not.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on November 23, 2021, 06:39:04 PM
Aren’t there still loads of buses that go into town along Lichfield Road?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: nordenvillain on November 23, 2021, 06:54:28 PM
Just had another look and to my horror the Leicester City match is also priced at £55 in the majority of remaining areas with NO CONCESSIONS . Absolute MADNESS . We should be encouraging the future,not pricing them out of a seat . Disgrace
[/quote ]
Whilst I agree that the prices throughout the ground not only for this game are too much, you need to get your abacus out again regarding your statement. There are 2618 seats remaining, of which 1568 offer concession rates, 1021 offer no concessions with prices of £54 or £55 and 29 offer no concessions with a price of £35. Asking supporters to pay these prices twice in 5 days one month before Christmas is a step too far for me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 23, 2021, 07:47:48 PM
Aren’t there still loads of buses that go into town along Lichfield Road?

Yep but even they are getting very,very crowded now and often the bus will whizz past when they are full and see a crowded bus stop. One of the better services in the city that route though
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on November 23, 2021, 07:59:51 PM
I dont know why you'd bother, it's only a 30 min walk back into town tops


I park where you do, I believe, by (what was) The Albion, and there's always plenty of folks already at the old central fire station by the time I drive past. If I'm not driving or I'm meeting people in town after, I've no qualms about walking back.

Yeah thats where I park. Really noticed the increase from relegation days to now of parked cars. If If Cross was still open it would do a roaring trade. That's a stones throw from town.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 23, 2021, 09:09:38 PM
I'm not telling any of you bastards where I park.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on November 23, 2021, 09:18:23 PM
I'm not telling any of you bastards where I park.

That's a DISGRACE!!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on November 23, 2021, 09:47:41 PM
I'm not telling any of you bastards where I park.

That's a disgrace!!!

I think you mean DISGRACE. Edit please Ads.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on November 23, 2021, 09:51:30 PM
I dont know why you'd bother, it's only a 30 min walk back into town tops


I park where you do, I believe, by (what was) The Albion, and there's always plenty of folks already at the old central fire station by the time I drive past. If I'm not driving or I'm meeting people in town after, I've no qualms about walking back.

Yeah thats where I park. Really noticed the increase from relegation days to now of parked cars. If If Cross was still open it would do a roaring trade. That's a stones throw from town.
Or the Swan & Mitre or the Brittania, or Eddie's, or the Reservoir, or The Vine, .Honestly I could weep when I think of what we've lost 😪😪
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 23, 2021, 11:37:06 PM
I dont know why you'd bother, it's only a 30 min walk back into town tops


I park where you do, I believe, by (what was) The Albion, and there's always plenty of folks already at the old central fire station by the time I drive past. If I'm not driving or I'm meeting people in town after, I've no qualms about walking back.

Yeah thats where I park. Really noticed the increase from relegation days to now of parked cars. If If Cross was still open it would do a roaring trade. That's a stones throw from town.
Or the Swan & Mitre or the Brittania, or Eddie's, or the Reservoir, or The Vine, .Honestly I could weep when I think of what we've lost 😪😪

They only do a roaring trade 19 or so days a year. That was the problem.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on November 24, 2021, 04:03:28 AM
I dont know why you'd bother, it's only a 30 min walk back into town tops


I park where you do, I believe, by (what was) The Albion, and there's always plenty of folks already at the old central fire station by the time I drive past. If I'm not driving or I'm meeting people in town after, I've no qualms about walking back.

Yeah thats where I park. Really noticed the increase from relegation days to now of parked cars. If If Cross was still open it would do a roaring trade. That's a stones throw from town.
Or the Swan & Mitre or the Brittania, or Eddie's, or the Reservoir, or The Vine, .Honestly I could weep when I think of what we've lost 😪😪

They only do a roaring trade 19 or so days a year. That was the problem.

Has the Swan gone?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Smith on November 24, 2021, 07:58:29 AM
I dont know why you'd bother, it's only a 30 min walk back into town tops


I park where you do, I believe, by (what was) The Albion, and there's always plenty of folks already at the old central fire station by the time I drive past. If I'm not driving or I'm meeting people in town after, I've no qualms about walking back.

Yeah thats where I park. Really noticed the increase from relegation days to now of parked cars. If If Cross was still open it would do a roaring trade. That's a stones throw from town.
Or the Swan & Mitre or the Brittania, or Eddie's, or the Reservoir, or The Vine, .Honestly I could weep when I think of what we've lost 😪😪

They only do a roaring trade 19 or so days a year. That was the problem.

Has the Swan gone?

Yes. The old gaffer Anne ran it perfectly for a match day pub for years. She sold up a few years ago and the new owners were just not up to it. It was ideally placed opposite the station but people just stopped using it in the same numbers and lockdown finished it off.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on November 24, 2021, 08:10:33 AM
I dont know why you'd bother, it's only a 30 min walk back into town tops


I park where you do, I believe, by (what was) The Albion, and there's always plenty of folks already at the old central fire station by the time I drive past. If I'm not driving or I'm meeting people in town after, I've no qualms about walking back.

Yeah thats where I park. Really noticed the increase from relegation days to now of parked cars. If If Cross was still open it would do a roaring trade. That's a stones throw from town.
Or the Swan & Mitre or the Brittania, or Eddie's, or the Reservoir, or The Vine, .Honestly I could weep when I think of what we've lost 😪😪

They only do a roaring trade 19 or so days a year. That was the problem.

Not helped by the council turning the entire area in to an industrial estate and flattening any dwellings.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 28, 2021, 01:36:55 PM
Still plenty of Availability for the Manchester City match, few more shifted after the fantastic performance yesterday.

let's hope some of the 20,000 on the waiting list make a purchase in the coming days
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Scott Nielsen on November 28, 2021, 01:40:55 PM
Stop it, already.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on November 28, 2021, 01:51:54 PM
I know he's a ticket troller
But he does have a bit of a point
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 28, 2021, 02:00:39 PM
Thousands left for leicester match as well. You would think with a new Head Coach,back to back wins some on that huge list would be desperate to see us play?. We're talking about extending to 50,000 . maybe they will have second thoughts if we can't sell out against clubs like leicester and manchester city.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on November 28, 2021, 02:44:11 PM
There are 850 tickets left for Man City.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on November 28, 2021, 02:55:45 PM
Don't underestimate how many people have been struggling with their finances in the last twelve months due to the pandemic.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 28, 2021, 02:55:59 PM
Fucking hell, it’s incessant.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on November 28, 2021, 03:00:39 PM
lI think he is getting a bit carried away with his Devils advocate stance 😃
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on November 28, 2021, 03:03:10 PM
Don't underestimate how many people have been struggling with their finances in the last twelve months due to the pandemic.

What do you need in Bedrock apart from granite ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on November 28, 2021, 03:33:00 PM
I've just watched the Purslow interview. I'm not sure if it was him or the interviewer who suggested an increase from 42,000 to 50,000, but I'm wondering if they will upgrade or (more sensibly) demolish the North Stand only, or whether they will try to do something with the Doug Ellis Stand as well.

I had a season ticket in the DE Upper when it was first built and the views were excellent but I remember the concourse up there always being overcrowded. Mention was made of an upgrade to the hospitality facilities, and for sure the minimum standard must have gone up since the DE was built. If the club want to improve the supporter experience for more of our support, and lets face it, if people have to endure rather than enjoy the experience we're less likely to retain them as season ticket holders, then I would expect work/improvement/rebuilding to be done on the North Stand and Doug Ellis Stand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on November 28, 2021, 03:34:20 PM
1962 tickets are left for Leicester. So not thousands as the troll suggested.

Let's hope that when Fred gets the chance to buy a season ticket he doesn't end up sitting near you.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on November 28, 2021, 03:43:28 PM
1962 tickets are left for Leicester. So not thousands as the troll suggested.

Let's hope that when Fred gets the chance to buy a season ticket he doesn't end up sitting near you.
A scientist might round up that figure of 1962 to suggest that there are thousands empty ;) . But there's a week to go until the game, and our lowest gate so far was for West Ham (41,874). I wouldn't be too concerned about the likely attendance.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: charlatan on November 28, 2021, 04:21:06 PM
Apparently 1962C1000 > 5 * 10^588 so there are more sets of 1000 available seats at Villa Park for the Leicester game than atoms in the universe ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on November 28, 2021, 04:43:01 PM
I've just watched the Purslow interview. I'm not sure if it was him or the interviewer who suggested an increase from 42,000 to 50,000, but I'm wondering if they will upgrade or (more sensibly) demolish the North Stand only, or whether they will try to do something with the Doug Ellis Stand as well.

I had a season ticket in the DE Upper when it was first built and the views were excellent but I remember the concourse up there always being overcrowded. Mention was made of an upgrade to the hospitality facilities, and for sure the minimum standard must have gone up since the DE was built. If the club want to improve the supporter experience for more of our support, and lets face it, if people have to endure rather than enjoy the experience we're less likely to retain them as season ticket holders, then I would expect work/improvement/rebuilding to be done on the North Stand and Doug Ellis Stand.



purslow mentioned a significant number of that 20.000 demand was for corporate so imagine a lot will be focused on that .  I wonder how limited they are too develop the witton lane
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on November 28, 2021, 04:49:10 PM
I've just watched the Purslow interview. I'm not sure if it was him or the interviewer who suggested an increase from 42,000 to 50,000, but I'm wondering if they will upgrade or (more sensibly) demolish the North Stand only, or whether they will try to do something with the Doug Ellis Stand as well.

I had a season ticket in the DE Upper when it was first built and the views were excellent but I remember the concourse up there always being overcrowded. Mention was made of an upgrade to the hospitality facilities, and for sure the minimum standard must have gone up since the DE was built. If the club want to improve the supporter experience for more of our support, and lets face it, if people have to endure rather than enjoy the experience we're less likely to retain them as season ticket holders, then I would expect work/improvement/rebuilding to be done on the North Stand and Doug Ellis Stand.



purslow mentioned a significant number of that 20.000 demand was for corporate so imagine a lot will be focused on that .  I wonder how limited they are too develop the witton lane
I remember when the Witton Lane was expanded from one tier to two, there were issues with the natives claiming they'd never see daylight in their homes because of the stand. I suppose time will tell to see if these issues resurface.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: boutrosboutrosgnarly on November 28, 2021, 05:01:37 PM
1962 tickets are left for Leicester. So not thousands as the troll suggested.

Let's hope that when Fred gets the chance to buy a season ticket he doesn't end up sitting near you.
No need to worry unless you're sitting in one of the two open stands in their shithole.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on November 28, 2021, 06:36:08 PM
I've just watched the Purslow interview. I'm not sure if it was him or the interviewer who suggested an increase from 42,000 to 50,000, but I'm wondering if they will upgrade or (more sensibly) demolish the North Stand only, or whether they will try to do something with the Doug Ellis Stand as well.

I had a season ticket in the DE Upper when it was first built and the views were excellent but I remember the concourse up there always being overcrowded. Mention was made of an upgrade to the hospitality facilities, and for sure the minimum standard must have gone up since the DE was built. If the club want to improve the supporter experience for more of our support, and lets face it, if people have to endure rather than enjoy the experience we're less likely to retain them as season ticket holders, then I would expect work/improvement/rebuilding to be done on the North Stand and Doug Ellis Stand.



purslow mentioned a significant number of that 20.000 demand was for corporate so imagine a lot will be focused on that .  I wonder how limited they are too develop the witton lane
I remember when the Witton Lane was expanded from one tier to two, there were issues with the natives claiming they'd never see daylight in their homes because of the stand. I suppose time will tell to see if these issues resurface.

I'm pretty sure there are issues with the road too - mainly that the council refuse to move it, making it essentially impossible to create a sensibly sized concourse for the lower tier, even if you built over the road like the Trinity.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dante Lavelli on November 28, 2021, 10:44:23 PM
Sounds like we will be buying a club/franchise too.  V-Group (or whatever the new name is) connects easily with the link to a Vegas club.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on November 28, 2021, 10:49:26 PM
That was my take on it. May be a means of harvesting South American youth talent perhaps?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on November 28, 2021, 11:10:05 PM
I've just watched the Purslow interview. I'm not sure if it was him or the interviewer who suggested an increase from 42,000 to 50,000, but I'm wondering if they will upgrade or (more sensibly) demolish the North Stand only, or whether they will try to do something with the Doug Ellis Stand as well.

I had a season ticket in the DE Upper when it was first built and the views were excellent but I remember the concourse up there always being overcrowded. Mention was made of an upgrade to the hospitality facilities, and for sure the minimum standard must have gone up since the DE was built. If the club want to improve the supporter experience for more of our support, and lets face it, if people have to endure rather than enjoy the experience we're less likely to retain them as season ticket holders, then I would expect work/improvement/rebuilding to be done on the North Stand and Doug Ellis Stand.
Interesting idea.

As a thought, given the Doug Ellis Stand can't be a great deal bigger than it is at the moment the most sensible route for that may be to increase the revenue yield on it.  Rebuild it completely as a high spec stand focussed on corporate hospitality.  Then rebuild the north stand as a standalone single tier giant.  We'd see the ground slowly morph in to having the posh/corporate stuff on the Witton Lane / Trinity Road stands, with the two ends acting as cheaper stands to increase the capacity to 50k+
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 28, 2021, 11:12:16 PM
Just knock the whole thing down and build a new ground somewhere less shit.

*runs away*
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 28, 2021, 11:16:51 PM
Just knock the whole thing down and build a new ground somewhere less shit.

*runs away*

If public reaction wasn’t a factor, I wonder if they would.

That massive Smithfield development where the wholesale markets were, for example.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 28, 2021, 11:20:58 PM
No good ever comes of building a new stadium unless you're a tinpot outfit like Reading. Stay where we are build where we can, the rest takes care of itself.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 28, 2021, 11:26:52 PM
No good ever comes of building a new stadium unless you're a tinpot outfit like Reading. Stay where we are build where we can, the rest takes care of itself.

Doesn’t appear to have done Man City much harm.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 28, 2021, 11:36:20 PM
No good ever comes of building a new stadium unless you're a tinpot outfit like Reading. Stay where we are build where we can, the rest takes care of itself.

Doesn’t appear to have done Man City much harm.

They didn't build it. It was a Blues' wet dream.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 28, 2021, 11:38:19 PM
Like west Ham, if you can get one on the cheap then fair enough. If you build it yourself it fucks you financially.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on November 28, 2021, 11:52:30 PM
No good ever comes of building a new stadium unless you're a tinpot outfit like Reading. Stay where we are build where we can, the rest takes care of itself.

Especially when your existing stadium is Villa Park.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 28, 2021, 11:59:43 PM
Even the Upper Trinity is pretty poor imo for space when it's a full house which is pretty much always these days. Not a great design with the stairs up taking half the space and then you have the bars aswell creating bottlenecks at half time.

Hopefully they'll do a good job with rebuilt north stand. No reason at all why some sort of underground car park can't be installed as they have it at likes of Arsenal and Chelsea so that would give a bit more space as think it was said Villa Village will probably be demolished so could extend the existing car park outwards.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 29, 2021, 12:05:51 AM
We have a huge car park, demolish the Village and have shuttle busses/coaches directly to the City Centre for a small fee. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 29, 2021, 12:07:18 AM
No good ever comes of building a new stadium unless you're a tinpot outfit like Reading. Stay where we are build where we can, the rest takes care of itself.

Especially when your existing stadium is Villa Park.

It's just a name. The North Stand and Doug Ellis are atrocious, both terrible stands with crap facilities. The Holte is slightly better and looks nice from the outside, but is still miles behind most modern stands. The Trinity is newest and has the best facilities, but is just a glass and concrete thing that isn't a patch on the architectural masterpiece that was there before. There's no parking to speak to, and transport to and from the ground is an absolute nightmare. The surrounding area is a very poor one, so there'd be no point in building anything else like a hotel even if there was the space.

Not a popular view I know, but then nor was Steven Gerrard as manager 3 short weeks ago... ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on November 29, 2021, 01:23:59 AM
No good ever comes of building a new stadium unless you're a tinpot outfit like Reading. Stay where we are build where we can, the rest takes care of itself.

Especially when your existing stadium is Villa Park.

It's just a name. The North Stand and Doug Ellis are atrocious, both terrible stands with crap facilities. The Holte is slightly better and looks nice from the outside, but is still miles behind most modern stands. The Trinity is newest and has the best facilities, but is just a glass and concrete thing that isn't a patch on the architectural masterpiece that was there before. There's no parking to speak to, and transport to and from the ground is an absolute nightmare. The surrounding area is a very poor one, so there'd be no point in building anything else like a hotel even if there was the space.

Not a popular view I know, but then nor was Steven Gerrard as manager 3 short weeks ago... ;)

Where do you think we should put a new stadium? I think VP is a bit of a nightmare to get to/from, but I feel like it's inextricably linked to Aston Hall and a sense of red brick history and pride. For me, at least.

I'd hate to see us build a corporate bowl on a retail park. If we move, we HAVE to bring certain things like the Holte steps and fascia, brick by brick. Anything else would be soulless.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 29, 2021, 07:19:55 AM
Move a stand that was built in 1995? Why not just build a new one?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on November 29, 2021, 08:10:16 AM
No good ever comes of building a new stadium unless you're a tinpot outfit like Reading. Stay where we are build where we can, the rest takes care of itself.

Doesn’t appear to have done Man City much harm.

If our ground was in Moss Side, I'd want to escape ASAP too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on November 29, 2021, 08:55:48 AM
No good ever comes of building a new stadium unless you're a tinpot outfit like Reading. Stay where we are build where we can, the rest takes care of itself.

Especially when your existing stadium is Villa Park.

It's just a name. The North Stand and Doug Ellis are atrocious, both terrible stands with crap facilities. The Holte is slightly better and looks nice from the outside, but is still miles behind most modern stands. The Trinity is newest and has the best facilities, but is just a glass and concrete thing that isn't a patch on the architectural masterpiece that was there before. There's no parking to speak to, and transport to and from the ground is an absolute nightmare. The surrounding area is a very poor one, so there'd be no point in building anything else like a hotel even if there was the space.

Not a popular view I know, but then nor was Steven Gerrard as manager 3 short weeks ago... ;)
Pretty much everyone I know who's not a Villa supporter, but has been to Villa Park, has commented - without prompting - on how much they like our ground.

I'm not against moving - the club moved from Wellington Road to Aston Lower Grounds before - but for me it'd need to be a move to a ground that has bigger than we could realistically build at the Lower Grounds, closer to the city centre, and impressive to the point where people talk about it as both the best football stadium in the world, and as an iconic piece of architecture for the city of Birmingham.

However, I do wonder if we might be better off just redeveloping the North Stand (bigger) and Witton Lane stand (posher). If we could get a decent capacity increase like that, I'd be inclined to go with that until we either get given a ground (like Man City / West Ham) or are in a position where we can sensibly build a ground that will be used for Champions League finals (so 90k capacity job - which we're miles off needing right now)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rico on November 29, 2021, 09:03:15 AM
I was thinking about clubs that have moved out of their stadiums into nice new lego land bowls that they have financed themselves, so I'm not inclunding West Ham or Man City in this, and the only one who seem to have got better on the playing side are Leicester. Even Arsenal are not as successful on the pitch as they were when playing at Highbury.

Sunderland, Coventry, Bolton, Middlesbrough, Derby have all suffered since moving out of their traditional homes, so I think we should look to stay put and redevelop Villa Park as best we can over a period of say ten years or so. Start with the North Stand (I'd be in favour of a massive single tier stand), then do the Witton Lane stand. At the same time the club and the council should be working together on match day public transport.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on November 29, 2021, 09:08:01 AM
There are a couple of options to move - but it would take some massive ambition and the best part of £500m to do...

Alexander Stadium - could have been developed in the same way Man City's stadium was. Close to our roots, but even worse transport than Villa Park

NEC - blank canvas, better transport link but wrong side of town.

City centre - Smithfield - this would be the brave and ambitious choice. A world-class stadium in the heart of the city.


I can't see us moving though, so £100m on the North Stand and Witton Lane please.  We'll need to improve the transport - more trains, better queuing, more organised parking, better facilities and staff that can pour a beer in less than 15 minutes...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on November 29, 2021, 09:08:42 AM
There are a couple of options to move - but it would take some massive ambition and the best part of £500m to do...

Alexander Stadium - could have been developed in the same way Man City's stadium was. Close to our roots, but even worse transport than Villa Park

NEC - blank canvas, better transport links but the wrong side of town.

City centre - Smithfield - this would be the brave and ambitious choice. A world-class stadium in the heart of the city.


I can't see us moving though, so £100m on the North Stand and Witton Lane please.  We'll need to improve the transport - more trains, better queuing, more organised parking, better facilities and staff that can pour a beer in less than 15 minutes...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 29, 2021, 09:39:48 AM
I was thinking about clubs that have moved out of their stadiums into nice new lego land bowls that they have financed themselves, so I'm not inclunding West Ham or Man City in this, and the only one who seem to have got better on the playing side are Leicester. Even Arsenal are not as successful on the pitch as they were when playing at Highbury.

Sunderland, Coventry, Bolton, Middlesbrough, Derby have all suffered since moving out of their traditional homes, so I think we should look to stay put and redevelop Villa Park as best we can over a period of say ten years or so. Start with the North Stand (I'd be in favour of a massive single tier stand), then do the Witton Lane stand. At the same time the club and the council should be working together on match day public transport.

At least with Leicester they built it close to the old ground, so the match day rituals didn't change for the fans.
That would be pointless for us as we'd still be fucked getting in and out.
I wouldn't want us to move at all, but an obvious site would be the Alex site after the commonwealth games. Easier access and space to develop, and in our heartland.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on November 29, 2021, 09:41:50 AM
I'm mostly with Risso. I totally understand the emotional reasons for not moving but there are a lot of problems with the site right now so if the plan is a world class stadium with top quality facilities and huge amounts of corporate boxes, etc then I'm not sure if you'll get that where we are now.

The problem is with where you go, no on wants a ground out in the middle of nowhere but there's not a great deal of space anywhere that would be acceptable. You need a 'main' site for the stadium that's roughly 200m by 250m and then another 10000-15000m2 for extra facilities and there's not many places that fit.



I'd be ok with moving if we could get a new ground with:
4 mostly distinct stands (not one of the big souless bowls that so many clubs go for but I could live with a linked concourse and a few rows of filling in the corners)
a massive single tier holte end done largely the same as the current stand (I mean a massive, 18-20k monster, with rail seating if possible)
2 sides largely based on the old trinity road stand
something 'different' for the other behind goal stand, I'd let the designers go a bit wild with this (but with key input from fan groups)


Aim for 65-70k, loads of corporate space and work with the council to get transport links sorted as part of the build. Then look at things like a museum to add more regular use to the site.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 29, 2021, 09:49:53 AM
But that won’t happen Paul-e. We will end up with an Etihad/Amex/emirates type concrete steel soulless bowl.
It may or may not be central.
We fans don’t get to say.
So the choices stay and develop VP or take what you are given based on a set of criteria that probably do not have your best interests at heart.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on November 29, 2021, 09:55:49 AM
I don't think there's any chance we'll move.  If we did there's no point trying to build a replica Villa park. The best you could hope for is a version of what Spurs have built.

The location of Evertons new ground is fantastic, on the docks on the edge of the City, it will be an incredible stadium.  If you're going to relocate then that's the way to do it.  But lets face it we would end up at the NEC.

We can easily get to 50-55k seats where we are and that should do us for the next 20 years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 29, 2021, 09:57:24 AM
I don't think there's any chance we'll move.  If we did there's no point trying to build a replica Villa park. The best you could hope for is a version of what Spurs have built.

The location of Evertons new ground is fantastic, on the docks on the edge of the City, it will be an incredible stadium.  If you're going to relocate then that's the way to do it.  But lets face it we would end up at the NEC.

We can easily get to 50-55k seats where we are and that should do us for the next 20 years.
The NEC is there a more soulless place in England?

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on November 29, 2021, 09:59:21 AM
I don't think there's any chance we'll move.  If we did there's no point trying to build a replica Villa park. The best you could hope for is a version of what Spurs have built.

The location of Evertons new ground is fantastic, on the docks on the edge of the City, it will be an incredible stadium.  If you're going to relocate then that's the way to do it.  But lets face it we would end up at the NEC.

We can easily get to 50-55k seats where we are and that should do us for the next 20 years.
The NEC is there a more soulless place in England?


Milton Keynes.  But I agree with your general point.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 29, 2021, 10:09:58 AM
Every fibre of my body would normally be against moving. That's the rectangle of grass we've played on for a very long time, and when I go to matches, I'm aware I am staring at the same rectangle of grass that my great grandfathers used to stare at mostly with the same expression of disappointment at what was happening on it.

However, I do think that the recent run of full houses have shown that there are some serious problems with accessibility to the stadium, before we even get onto extending it.

How, for example, could we realistically expand to say 60k, which seems to be becoming the benchmark for clubs like us, if the infrastructure can't really handle 42k?

It's not just about finding the space to expand the stands, it's about getting so many people to and from the ground as easily as possible.

That's why I suspect it's a subject they'll have discussed (although by what Purslow said about planning permission, it looks like we're staying put).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan82 on November 29, 2021, 10:11:18 AM
I just did a double take! It's 21 years since the new Trinity was built (in my mind, it's just a few years ago!)! At that time, the Witton Lane and Holte End were both new stands and the North Stand was the oldest at 23 years old. Crikey. Surely at the Witton End we have ample space to compensate for what the Witton Lane side lacks in corporate and capacity? The Trinity facade could do with a touch up when they're on the job.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 29, 2021, 10:11:24 AM
I also wonder if when they talk about expansion, we incorrectly assume they mean only the north stand. The North Stand is horribly antiquated but the DE is really not much better, with horrible concourses with a lack of space.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on November 29, 2021, 10:14:32 AM
Do I understand that the tramline to the Alex goes along the Birchfield Rd to town? Will that ease some of the transport pain or has it been shelved?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 29, 2021, 10:16:59 AM
I also wonder if when they talk about expansion, we incorrectly assume they mean only the north stand. The North Stand is horribly antiquated but the DE is really not much better, with horrible concourses with a lack of space.

I think the, ahem, Within Lane Stand is worse from personal experience.

It's actually a worthy memorial for the man who's name is on the side, done on the cheap and second rate.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nev on November 29, 2021, 10:17:35 AM
Do I understand that the tramline to the Alex goes along the Birchfield Rd to town? Will that ease some of the transport pain or has it been shelved?

If the progress of that tiny bit from Broad Street to that indistinct bit of the Hagley Road is anything to go by it will take a Millennium to build.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on November 29, 2021, 10:18:24 AM
I don't think there's any chance we'll move.  If we did there's no point trying to build a replica Villa park. The best you could hope for is a version of what Spurs have built.

The location of Evertons new ground is fantastic, on the docks on the edge of the City, it will be an incredible stadium.  If you're going to relocate then that's the way to do it.  But lets face it we would end up at the NEC.

We can easily get to 50-55k seats where we are and that should do us for the next 20 years.
The NEC is there a more soulless place in England?


Milton Keynes.  But I agree with your general point.

I raise you small heath !
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 29, 2021, 10:18:29 AM
Do I understand that the tramline to the Alex goes along the Birchfield Rd to town? Will that ease some of the transport pain or has it been shelved?

If the progress of that tiny bit from Broad Street to that indistinct bit of the Hagley Road is anything to go by it will take a Millennium to build.

And then get randomly shut down for weeks on end once it actually gets running.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on November 29, 2021, 10:21:12 AM
No good ever comes of building a new stadium unless you're a tinpot outfit like Reading. Stay where we are build where we can, the rest takes care of itself.

Doesn’t appear to have done Man City much harm.

Except their current stadium is a by-word for soulless. Chelsea, Liverpool and ManYoo's extending/sprucing-up of their own stadiums in the past two decades have meant the atmosphere associated with them and their grounds has been retained. The Eithad gets more coverage for looking empty than it does for its atmos.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on November 29, 2021, 10:24:51 AM
We could flatten and redevelop Villa Park on that site. If the whole ground was shifted towards the village and across a bit too there would be space.

The Alex is big enough but further out and more awkward.

The Smithfield site is closer to HS2. It's closer to the train and buses. It's worse for parking. It could become a hub for a lot of things but in not sure the council would want to lose all that space to a football ground. The cost would be the highest if all. Our nearest rivals would hate it.

The NEC would kill crowds in my view. There's just nothing else there. Unless there was a huge development for the social side, which wouldn't really work on non-football days.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 29, 2021, 10:28:26 AM
Flatten the North Stand and the Witton Lane and dig down. Drop the pitch level, get a extra tier into the Holte and Trinity then build the new stands from there.

I'm sure it would be horrifically expensive and disruptive, but quite cool. Which is what matter most.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on November 29, 2021, 10:29:08 AM
No good ever comes of building a new stadium unless you're a tinpot outfit like Reading. Stay where we are build where we can, the rest takes care of itself.

Doesn’t appear to have done Man City much harm.

Except their current stadium is a by-word for soulless. Chelsea, Liverpool and ManYoo's extending/sprucing-up of their own stadiums in the past two decades have meant the atmosphere associated with them and their grounds has been retained. The Eithad gets more coverage for looking empty than it does for its atmos.
Stamford Bridge is a great stadium in a great location, but it holds less than 42,000.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 29, 2021, 10:30:04 AM
All this talk of moving from our home is shameful. We should play nowhere else but Villa Park and if we were to move out of Aston that would be me done.

There's plenty of spaces for coaches if the village is demolished . Frequent shuttles to the City Centre with entertainment on in the car park. Moving from Villa Park would be tragic
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 29, 2021, 10:31:12 AM
It's not shameful you pillock. It's just a discussion.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on November 29, 2021, 10:31:29 AM
Ok. I've revised my thinking. Move.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on November 29, 2021, 10:33:10 AM
All this talk of moving from our home is shameful. We should play nowhere else but Villa Park and if we were to move out of Aston that would be me done.


#Prays for move.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 29, 2021, 10:33:27 AM
That would be the most expensive if it involved digging out and then building new foundations.

I understand  the problem with Witton Lane is a lack of space.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on November 29, 2021, 10:35:52 AM
Still 13,000 seats available (excluding season ticket holders) for Southampton at home in March 2022.  Absolute disgrace.  Hope they are ringing and apologising to all those on the waiting list.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on November 29, 2021, 10:37:22 AM
The new Spurs and Arsenal grounds are great- don’t confuse them with the out of town Lego stands that other clubs have.

Also, both of the new grounds are in the same location as the old ones - same train /tube stations to access the ground, only 5 minutes walk away from the old places. So not a great upheaval for supporters.

For miserable old legacy fans like me, Villa Park is where we play and where we should stay. Our kids will be supporting Villa long after Purslow and the others have gone.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 29, 2021, 10:37:25 AM
Stop having a go at Bam Bam 2 stands.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 29, 2021, 10:38:51 AM
Whatever they do I hope the consider aesthetics, unlike Old Trafford which looks like a Lego set gone wrong or Sid James Park, where it looks like they've welded half the San Siro to half of the Bescot.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on November 29, 2021, 10:45:26 AM
I guess a lot depends on your individual circumstances. If we were near New Street, I'd make more games and I suspect others would too.

If we had more parking nearby with faster and easier entry and exit routes that would work for more too.

The issue is around infrastructure. We can moan about the stands but the views are fine, the service in the stands is shit but let's face it, most football grounds have the same issues around staffing.

But let's face it, Villa Park is our home. If the council, police and transport network could be trusted to work appropriately we'd all be happier.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 29, 2021, 10:45:42 AM
Whatever they do I hope the consider aesthetics, unlike Old Trafford which looks like a Lego set gone wrong or Sid James Park, where it looks like they've welded half the San Siro to half of the Bescot.

Talking of San Siro, there's a battle on atm to save its future. Demolish and replace with smaller more modern stadium vs refurbish existing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on November 29, 2021, 10:45:49 AM
Whatever they do I hope the consider aesthetics, unlike Old Trafford which looks like a Lego set gone wrong or Sid James Park, where it looks like they've welded half the San Siro to half of the Bescot.

Amen.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 29, 2021, 10:49:01 AM
But let's face it, Villa Park is our home. If the council, police and transport network could be trusted to work appropriately we'd all be happier.

That's the challenge. That and at some point someone will need to find the money to upgrade the transport network.

re the other sites people have mentioned, I genuinely struggle to think of anywhere worse than the NEC. Yes, it's next door to the motorway, but you can spend absolutely ages just getting off the car parks there.

And how soulless would that be.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on November 29, 2021, 10:53:24 AM
I don’t think the NEC would be an option anyway.  I think they’re starting junction 6 ‘improvement works’ scheduled to last until 2025!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nev on November 29, 2021, 11:02:07 AM
The issue with Villa Park is that with the paucity of pubs in the locality lot's of people now drink/eat in town and head straight to and from the game from there. This put's pressure on the transport network, in particular at the end of the game when a mass of people want to travel back into the City. It's something we do, we've tried to hang about but it's impossible to get into the Social/Tavern post match, at the other end the Heart is just as bad and you have to go out as far as the Barton's before you can get in anywhere comfortably. The Holte Suite was OK after Brighton but too many people just want to get off and this is something that the club need to plan around. I think shuttle buses are the easiest answer until you factor in the noted intransigence of the bus companies. It works OK at Edgbaston and Cheltenham Races where they face the same difficulties so something based on that could work.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on November 29, 2021, 11:06:14 AM
Think we need to increase the capacity of the existing stadium first. A new stadium would be 10+ plus years away anyway and by that time the council's anti-retail policies will be in full effect and we'll be able to build a new stadium on an empty Bullring.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Pat Mustard on November 29, 2021, 11:08:11 AM
My heart says stay at Villa Park every time, but logically I think it is inevitable we will eventually have to move unless there is a massive master plan to redevelop the whole area at some point. 

There are too many individual issues at Villa Park that restrict what we can do. Witton Lane can never go higher than it does now, if we move the stadium further towards the car park at the North Stand end then we probably just recreate the same problem for the houses behind the club shop etc, and effectively we are creating a new build stadium anyway, in an area where transport is always going to be a problem.  The Metro isn't being extended to Perry Barr any time soon (they are just having dedicated lanes for 'Sprint' buses), and there is nothing to indicate any interest in redeveloping Witton and Aston stations either - the Mayor is more interested in reopening other lines serving Moseley, Kings Heath and Sutton which do nothing for Aston.

I would imagine we will be at Villa Park for the foreseeable future, but suspect any redevelopment will be a relatively basic rebuild of the North Stand to increase capacity and corporate facilities with maximising revenue being the key driver.  There are plenty of examples of clubs in the last 30 years where they built new stands, only to move on a few years later (Arsenal and Leicester being obvious ones).  The question then would be where we could move to.  The Alexander Stadium is almost certainly out of the question now - I doubt they are going to spend £75 million creating the country's largest permanent athletics stadium just to turn it over to a football club a few years later.  Smithfield will be a no-no too as it is already master-planned for leisure, retail and residential - a stadium that is only used 20-25 times a year will suck the life out of that area.

The only realistic sites that are large enough within a reasonable distance of both Villa Park and the City Centre would either be where the gas holders are/were just outside the ring road near to Aston University, or where the Royal Mail sorting office in Newtown is currently (as I believe there are rumours this could move).  With the people we have in charge I've no doubt they are looking at all possibilities.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 29, 2021, 11:09:38 AM
I guess a lot depends on your individual circumstances. If we were near New Street, I'd make more games and I suspect others would too.

If we had more parking nearby with faster and easier entry and exit routes that would work for more too.

The issue is around infrastructure. We can moan about the stands but the views are fine, the service in the stands is shit but let's face it, most football grounds have the same issues around staffing.

But let's face it, Villa Park is our home. If the council, police and transport network could be trusted to work appropriately we'd all be happier.

I’m struggling to think of many people who the current site suits to be honest. As seen from the mostly unsuccessful attempts to get local residents on board, the immediate surrounding areas of Aston aren’t exactly a hotbed of support.  It’s a lovely historic ground, just one that’s terrible to get to, whatever mode of transport you choose to use, with probably the least worst being to trudge it from New Street, which isn’t much fun at the best of times and even less if you’re taking kids. I’m 99% certain to give it a miss on Wednesday, mainly because I don’t fancy the M6 at rush hour to get there on time, and then almost certainly getting home after midnight afterwards.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on November 29, 2021, 11:10:29 AM
We could flatten and redevelop Villa Park on that site. If the whole ground was shifted towards the village and across a bit too there would be space.

The Alex is big enough but further out and more awkward.

The Smithfield site is closer to HS2. It's closer to the train and buses. It's worse for parking. It could become a hub for a lot of things but in not sure the council would want to lose all that space to a football ground. The cost would be the highest if all. Our nearest rivals would hate it.

The NEC would kill crowds in my view. There's just nothing else there. Unless there was a huge development for the social side, which wouldn't really work on non-football days.

Nelson Road is in the way so shifting the whole ground towards the village wouldn't help. To have enough space you'd need to buy out the entire road and probably the near side of Jardine Road as well. The whole process would take years, cost a fortune and result in an entirely new stadium with us having played somewhere else for a couple of years whilst it was done.

I agree the NEC is a terrible choice. Smithfield would be ok but I think it's too close to the blues really and there's not really a site big enough anywhere else in the city centre, which makes the whole conversation so much more difficult.

But that won’t happen Paul-e. We will end up with an Etihad/Amex/emirates type concrete steel soulless bowl.
It may or may not be central.
We fans don’t get to say.
So the choices stay and develop VP or take what you are given based on a set of criteria that probably do not have your best interests at heart.

Not sure how you can be so certain about this, I've seen nothing from these owners to suggest their plans would be to shit all over the fans as you suggest. I think they'd absolutely 100% talk to the fan groups before making any decision and I think celebrating the history of the club would be at the heart of anything they did.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on November 29, 2021, 11:18:43 AM
We could flatten and redevelop Villa Park on that site. If the whole ground was shifted towards the village and across a bit too there would be space.

The Alex is big enough but further out and more awkward.

The Smithfield site is closer to HS2. It's closer to the train and buses. It's worse for parking. It could become a hub for a lot of things but in not sure the council would want to lose all that space to a football ground. The cost would be the highest if all. Our nearest rivals would hate it.

The NEC would kill crowds in my view. There's just nothing else there. Unless there was a huge development for the social side, which wouldn't really work on non-football days.
The old wholesale markets site is going to be used for some temporary event space for the commonwealth games. Following that a massive development will be built called Smithfield with apartments, shopping and entertainment space with a 35+ storey tower at it's centre. The idea of realigning the ground on its current footprint is interesting although I don't know if that's actually achievable. I don't see much happening though until the transport issues are resolved. We just can't cope with our current capacity so an extra 10k or so would seem to be a pipe dream for now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan82 on November 29, 2021, 11:18:56 AM
Would hate to see us move from Villa Park. People are right to criticise the look of Old Trafford and I suspect Anfield will also look a bit odd now with the new stand. However, I think it's nice that both those clubs found a way to expand while remaining at their historic homes.

Villa Park is the heart of our club. I really hope we stay and find a way to improve some of the issues raised.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on November 29, 2021, 11:19:45 AM
Whatever they do I hope the consider aesthetics, unlike Old Trafford which looks like a Lego set gone wrong or Sid James Park, where it looks like they've welded half the San Siro to half of the Bescot.
The San Bescot does have a nice ring to it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 29, 2021, 11:20:26 AM
If we were going to "out of town" it, a bit further north towards the Belfry and Bodymoor would be more appropriate.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 29, 2021, 11:26:43 AM
Old Trafford is huge, but it’s really crap inside. I was in with the home fans for our win, and I’ve never been in a smaller, more cramped seat, with everybody virtually sat on top of each other, and I’ve experienced the Doug Ellis.

Great to get away from though, I was back home from Manchester in two hours, when usually trying to escape from Villa Park, I’m lucky if I’m on the M6 in that time.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on November 29, 2021, 11:27:41 AM
Still 13,000 seats available (excluding season ticket holders) for Southampton at home in March 2022.  Absolute disgrace.  Hope they are ringing and apologising to all those on the waiting list.
The so-called 20000 on the so-called waiting list should have snapped up every one of those tickets by now.  DISGRACE.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on November 29, 2021, 11:29:24 AM
Still 13,000 seats available (excluding season ticket holders) for Southampton at home in March 2022.  Absolute disgrace.  Hope they are ringing and apologising to all those on the waiting list.
The so-called 20000 on the so-called waiting list should have snapped up every one of those tickets by now.  DISGRACE.


Where are you ? where are you ? lets be avin you , slurp !!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 29, 2021, 11:30:20 AM
Old Trafford is huge, but it’s really crap inside. I was in with the home fans for our win, and I’ve never been in a smaller, more cramped seat, with everybody virtually sat on top of each other, and I’ve experienced the Doug Ellis.

Great to get away from though, I was back home from Manchester in two hours, when usually trying to escape from Villa Park, I’m lucky if I’m on the M6 in that time.

Yeah we only parked 10 mins away and were out in no time, it was really noticeable.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on November 29, 2021, 11:30:52 AM
Old Trafford is huge, but it’s really crap inside. I was in with the home fans for our win, and I’ve never been in a smaller, more cramped seat, with everybody virtually sat on top of each other, and I’ve experienced the Doug Ellis.

Great to get away from though, I was back home from Manchester in two hours, when usually trying to escape from Villa Park, I’m lucky if I’m on the M6 in that time.
Where the hell do you park?  I'm on the M6 within half an hour, pretty much every time.  Usually less than that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on November 29, 2021, 11:32:52 AM
You do wonder how the traffic situation has deteriorated since we were relegated, it used to be that there was a temp one way system introduced after the game to clear traffic away from the area so that the locals weren’t inconvenienced for long. Now its a free for all with two way traffic and chaos for hours afterward
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 29, 2021, 11:34:00 AM
You do wonder how the traffic situation has deteriorated since we were relegated, it used to be that there was a temp one way system introduced after the game to clear traffic away from the area so that the locals weren’t inconvenienced for long. Now its a free for all with two way traffic and chaos for hours afterward

They need to go back to this. It’s a good point about the locals, how on earth do they get to and from work or whatever on Saturdays?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on November 29, 2021, 11:42:01 AM
If we were going to "out of town" it, a bit further north towards the Belfry and Bodymoor would be more appropriate.
Never in a million years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 29, 2021, 11:49:49 AM
That was Juve and the hated Stadio della Alpi.

Apparently the San Siro is run down, when I went in 1990 it was like a spaceship from the future had landed in a big car park, it's hard for me to imagine it being a bit knackered.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on November 29, 2021, 11:51:06 AM
That was Juve and the hated Stadio della Alpi.

Apparently the San Siro is run down, when I went in 1990 it was like a spaceship from the future had landed in a big car park, it's hard for me to imagine it being a bit knackered.
How are you compared to 30 years' ago, Lee? A bit knackered, perhaps?!
I know I am  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 29, 2021, 11:52:14 AM
That was Juve and the hated Stadio della Alpi.

Apparently the San Siro is run down, when I went in 1990 it was like a spaceship from the future had landed in a big car park, it's hard for me to imagine it being a bit knackered.
How are you compared to 30 years' ago, Lee? A bit knackered, perhaps?!
I know I am  ;D ;D ;D

He’s more the equivalent of The Sty these days I believe.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 29, 2021, 11:56:14 AM
The facade isn't too bad, still a 32in waist, but structurally I'm fucked, no way I'd get a safety certificate.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on November 29, 2021, 12:11:03 PM
That was Juve and the hated Stadio della Alpi.

Apparently the San Siro is run down, when I went in 1990 it was like a spaceship from the future had landed in a big car park, it's hard for me to imagine it being a bit knackered.

Matching the future-vibes by rocking the new Sony Discman with Violator pumping out of the headphones ?!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on November 29, 2021, 12:22:17 PM
I'm all for staying and redeveloping, but if we did have to move it doesn't have to be to a soulless bowl - take a look at these for inspiration - https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/list/ranking-nfl-stadiums-from-worst-to-best/dky07jdst5w1mcy7cgsm7q6s

The Lucas Oil Stadium is simply astounding!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 29, 2021, 12:36:01 PM
That was Juve and the hated Stadio della Alpi.

Apparently the San Siro is run down, when I went in 1990 it was like a spaceship from the future had landed in a big car park, it's hard for me to imagine it being a bit knackered.

Matching the future-vibes by rocking the new Sony Discman with Violator pumping out of the headphones ?!

Ha ha, no the Discman was acquired the following Christmas.

Pretty sure Violater was recorded in Milan too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on November 29, 2021, 12:38:38 PM
Apart from a slight delay (maybe 10 minutes) getting away from where I park which is by where Ruskin used to be, I have never had any problems getting to and from the ground.  Same when I used to park on that grass verge bit on Lichfield Road by Aston Station.  Admittedly I am not a regular match goer these days so assume it has got much worse over the years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on November 29, 2021, 12:41:04 PM
That was Juve and the hated Stadio della Alpi.

Apparently the San Siro is run down, when I went in 1990 it was like a spaceship from the future had landed in a big car park, it's hard for me to imagine it being a bit knackered.

Matching the future-vibes by rocking the new Sony Discman with Violator pumping out of the headphones ?!

Ha ha, no the Discman was acquired the following Christmas.

Pretty sure Violater was recorded in Milan too.


When our coach arrived at the San Siro in 1990 one wag on our coach compared the heavily lit up stadium to Castle Vale  ;D
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 29, 2021, 01:00:04 PM
I'm all for staying and redeveloping, but if we did have to move it doesn't have to be to a soulless bowl - take a look at these for inspiration - https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/list/ranking-nfl-stadiums-from-worst-to-best/dky07jdst5w1mcy7cgsm7q6s

The Lucas Oil Stadium is simply astounding!
I think they are horrible.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 29, 2021, 01:09:18 PM
The Lucas Oil one also looks brilliant from outside.

Can't believe the Louisiana Superdome is ranked so highly. I went there in the early 90s and it was a bit of a dump (albeit a big one, with a roof) then.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on November 29, 2021, 01:14:15 PM
So much of my life has been invested in Villa Park for one reason or another, I would be devastated should it even be considered that we would move so please stop debating it and scaring the shit out of me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 29, 2021, 01:18:50 PM
Well we are still well short of selling out against Man City and more worryingly Leicester. It appears the Club have made no real push to get bums on seats. I think it's going to look rather ridiculous if we have 10,000 empty seats if people don't want to turn out on Evenings and Sunday Afternoons

That's on the back of Two wins and a new Head Coach, what would it be like if we had a bad run and Fulham on a Tuesday night.

Knock down the Village, Get shuttles on, tart the North Stand up and improve the Catering by simplifying the offerings in compact areas like the DE stand. Whilst keeping our current capacity as an increase does not appear to be needed unless the 20,000 start showing their faces and the club price the games fairly
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 29, 2021, 01:22:32 PM
It's Monday, right?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on November 29, 2021, 01:26:29 PM
Well we are still well short of selling out against Man City and more worryingly Leicester. It appears the Club have made no real push to get bums on seats. I think it's going to look rather ridiculous if we have 10,000 empty seats if people don't want to turn out on Evenings and Sunday Afternoons

That's on the back of Two wins and a new Head Coach, what would it be like if we had a bad run and Fulham on a Tuesday night.

Knock down the Village, Get shuttles on, tart the North Stand up and improve the Catering by simplifying the offerings in compact areas like the DE stand. Whilst keeping our current capacity as an increase does not appear to be needed unless the 20,000 start showing their faces and the club price the games fairly

10,000 empty seats? What the fuck are you on about?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 29, 2021, 01:28:04 PM
So much of my life has been invested in Villa Park for one reason or another, I would be devastated should it even be considered that we would move so please stop debating it and scaring the shit out of me.

Given Purslow’s comments Dave, I’d say there’s no chance whatsoever in the immediate future, it’s just an interesting debate. Unlike the new(ish) London grounds like Spurs or Arsenal, just knocking it down and rebuilding it isn’t an option. The good things about London is that the Underground system is brilliant, so getting to and from games is always a piece of piss for most teams. Birmingham doesn’t have anything like that, and there’s no immediately obvious location if they were considering a change. Personally I’d be talking to the council about using a new stadium as a hub for redevelopment in the hinterland behind Selfridges/The Bull Ring, ie to the east of Moor Street. At least somewhere like there everybody would have a choice of all the main stations and bus routes to use to get in and out, and there would be ample places for people to eat and drink before the game.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Stu on November 29, 2021, 01:28:07 PM
Sunday afternoon kick offs are bullshit. Would rather be at home with my feet up in the warm.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 29, 2021, 01:28:23 PM
Well we are still well short of selling out against Man City and more worryingly Leicester. It appears the Club have made no real push to get bums on seats. I think it's going to look rather ridiculous if we have 10,000 empty seats if people don't want to turn out on Evenings and Sunday Afternoons

That's on the back of Two wins and a new Head Coach, what would it be like if we had a bad run and Fulham on a Tuesday night.

Knock down the Village, Get shuttles on, tart the North Stand up and improve the Catering by simplifying the offerings in compact areas like the DE stand. Whilst keeping our current capacity as an increase does not appear to be needed unless the 20,000 start showing their faces and the club price the games fairly

10,000 empty seats? What the fuck are you on about?

If we increase capacity to 50,000 +

We can't sell out 41,000+ at the moment. Seems no need to increase capacity unless the 20,000 can show they are genuinely interested
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Zouch Villa on November 29, 2021, 01:28:33 PM
I'm all for staying and redeveloping, but if we did have to move it doesn't have to be to a soulless bowl - take a look at these for inspiration - https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/list/ranking-nfl-stadiums-from-worst-to-best/dky07jdst5w1mcy7cgsm7q6s

The Lucas Oil Stadium is simply astounding!
I think they are horrible.
Seconded.

Huge amorphic bowl…..nope.
Ugly Meccano roof…..no thank you.
Shallow rake tiers….please god, no.

Huge fuck off North stand to mirror the Holte.  Upgrade Witton Lane stand as big as feasibly possible.  Complete overhaul of all concourse areas and facilities in Holte and Trinity.  Partially fill in corners (only up to hight of lower tier).  Try to do something with the roof line so it doesn’t look like a pick and mix from buildbase.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 29, 2021, 01:30:19 PM
The MetLife stadium (shared between NY Jets and Giants) is the steepest stadium I’ve ever been in. The person sat in front of you is good 4 feet below you.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Stu on November 29, 2021, 01:31:56 PM
Any new ground would have to be out of town somewhere because a new development in the city would require new infrastructure which Birmingham absolutely will not get. Totally unrealistic.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 29, 2021, 01:32:25 PM
Any new ground would have to be out of town somewhere because a new development in the city would require new infrastructure which Birmingham absolutely will not get. Totally unrealistic.

Yep.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on November 29, 2021, 01:34:03 PM
The MetLife stadium (shared between NY Jets and Giants) is the steepest stadium I’ve ever been in. The person sat in front of you is good 4 feet below you.

I was also about 2 miles from the ring when I went.  (Wrestlemania XXXV).  And now I am definitely running for cover.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on November 29, 2021, 01:37:43 PM
I'd keep Villa Park for a third of the games - do up the ground to 50k. Invest in a huge 80k inflatable stadium that we can move round the west midlands for other games. Stick it in parks etc.. like those fairs that do the rounds. Locals in these places will only get annoyed 1 day a year, and obviously lot less aggro for the locals at Villa Park. Job done
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Pat Mustard on November 29, 2021, 01:40:37 PM
Well we are still well short of selling out against Man City and more worryingly Leicester. It appears the Club have made no real push to get bums on seats. I think it's going to look rather ridiculous if we have 10,000 empty seats if people don't want to turn out on Evenings and Sunday Afternoons

That's on the back of Two wins and a new Head Coach, what would it be like if we had a bad run and Fulham on a Tuesday night.

Knock down the Village, Get shuttles on, tart the North Stand up and improve the Catering by simplifying the offerings in compact areas like the DE stand. Whilst keeping our current capacity as an increase does not appear to be needed unless the 20,000 start showing their faces and the club price the games fairly

10,000 empty seats? What the fuck are you on about?

If we increase capacity to 50,000 +

We can't sell out 41,000+ at the moment. Seems no need to increase capacity unless the 20,000 can show they are genuinely interested
#

Change the record - every game so far this season has been a sell-out.  If you're basing expansion on having 100% of capacity at every single game you play then there isn't a singe football club in the world who would ever make their ground bigger.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on November 29, 2021, 01:40:38 PM
Well we are still well short of selling out against Man City and more worryingly Leicester. It appears the Club have made no real push to get bums on seats. I think it's going to look rather ridiculous if we have 10,000 empty seats if people don't want to turn out on Evenings and Sunday Afternoons

That's on the back of Two wins and a new Head Coach, what would it be like if we had a bad run and Fulham on a Tuesday night.

Knock down the Village, Get shuttles on, tart the North Stand up and improve the Catering by simplifying the offerings in compact areas like the DE stand. Whilst keeping our current capacity as an increase does not appear to be needed unless the 20,000 start showing their faces and the club price the games fairly

10,000 empty seats? What the fuck are you on about?

If we increase capacity to 50,000 +

We can't sell out 41,000+ at the moment. Seems no need to increase capacity unless the 20,000 can show they are genuinely interested

How many are left for Wednesday?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Zouch Villa on November 29, 2021, 01:52:00 PM
We’ve averaged over 41.9k tickets so far this season, with I think just the one game televised live, and we’re still yet to host any of the top 5 teams.

As Pat has said, if we increased capacity to 50k we might not sell out every game, but we would certainly have average attendance not too far short of it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on November 29, 2021, 01:55:52 PM
It's also the type of tickets available as well..  I doubt the ones left are the cheapest.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on November 29, 2021, 02:02:47 PM
Well we are still well short of selling out against Man City and more worryingly Leicester. It appears the Club have made no real push to get bums on seats. I think it's going to look rather ridiculous if we have 10,000 empty seats if people don't want to turn out on Evenings and Sunday Afternoons

That's on the back of Two wins and a new Head Coach, what would it be like if we had a bad run and Fulham on a Tuesday night.

Knock down the Village, Get shuttles on, tart the North Stand up and improve the Catering by simplifying the offerings in compact areas like the DE stand. Whilst keeping our current capacity as an increase does not appear to be needed unless the 20,000 start showing their faces and the club price the games fairly

Plenty of seats at the San Giro for your game against Cardiff.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on November 29, 2021, 02:09:19 PM
There's 860 tickets left.  The game will sell out or near as damn it.  On an 8.15 pm Wed night ko, in freezing weather and when we have another home game on Sunday, 4 weeks before Christmas.

Doesn't seem too bad to me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 29, 2021, 02:21:56 PM
Every club of our size with a feel good factor around would sell out on a Sunday Afternoon. If we don't sell out against Leicester it might make the owners think twice before taking on a very expensive project.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on November 29, 2021, 02:32:50 PM
It's also the type of tickets available as well..  I doubt the ones left are the cheapest.

This is the key point. The remaining seats for both games are generally the £55 ones which is way too much for many people. The fact that kids tickets costs the same in Upper Trinity is crazy. I know it’s been that way for years but I still don’t understand it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 29, 2021, 02:35:47 PM
Plus they will be singles, the prospect of shelling out a ton so you and your child can sit 30ft from each other, freezing, watching Man City going through their boring routines is probably not that appealing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on November 29, 2021, 02:44:01 PM
Plus they will be singles, the prospect of shelling out a ton so you and your child can sit 30ft from each other, freezing, watching Man City going through their boring routines is probably not that appealing.

Yep, I'd be willing to bet that the commercial department consider us as effectively 'sold out' once we get down to the last few hundred tickets for this very reason, some tickets will always be very hard to sell.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Pat Mustard on November 29, 2021, 02:45:09 PM
Every club of our size with a feel good factor around would sell out on a Sunday Afternoon. If we don't sell out against Leicester it might make the owners think twice before taking on a very expensive project.

Wes - 'Sorry lads, I know we've already put in nearly 400 million quid, but there were 50 empty seats against Leicester so we're pulling out and selling the club to a Chinese hairdresser for 50p and a tube of Smarties'.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on November 29, 2021, 02:56:11 PM
I can't make Wednesday's game and have opted to re-sell my ticket through the club.
It's a ticket for the Upper Holte, but it hasn't sold because the game hasn't sold out yet. It obviously would be cheaper than singles in the Trinity/DE stands.
I don't understand why the club doesn't activate my ticket for re-sale, as it would make them more money. I would only get 80% value of my ticket returned and they would also get full price for the ticket off someone else. A little bit of joined up thinking might make different price bands of tickets available to more supporters who may wish to attend the game.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 29, 2021, 02:58:14 PM
Large areas of seats together still for both fixtures. 
Totally agree with the pricing £55 with no concessions is an absolute disgrace. Come on Villa do the right thing and add concessions or put an offer on to pack the stadium out.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Moonraker on November 29, 2021, 03:08:50 PM
Back on topic and now that my guilty feeing surrounding Dean going has left me (in part because he has another job now at a club which will suit him), in hindsight the owners would have only regarded Dean as a stepping-stone to where their model shows Villa to be ie a global successful club. Dean Smith would not be able to attract the top quality players that SG will be able to. They had made their mind up on that long before the 5 game run -  they didnt spend any of the Grealish money (Buendia Ings and Bailey were in the budget) - and the dismissal of Dean proves once again that they are ruthless in getting Villa back to the top.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 29, 2021, 03:12:16 PM
I feel like actually buying every remaining ticket just to make him STFU about it
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on November 29, 2021, 03:18:24 PM
I feel like actually buying every remaining ticket just to make him STFU about it

You selfish git.  What about the 20,000?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on November 29, 2021, 03:28:47 PM
Back on topic and now that my guilty feeing surrounding Dean going has left me (in part because he has another job now at a club which will suit him), in hindsight the owners would have only regarded Dean as a stepping-stone to where their model shows Villa to be ie a global successful club. Dean Smith would not be able to attract the top quality players that SG will be able to. They had made their mind up on that long before the 5 game run -  they didnt spend any of the Grealish money (Buendia Ings and Bailey were in the budget) - and the dismissal of Dean proves once again that they are ruthless in getting Villa back to the top.
I think you're right there.  Terry & ROK going makes an awful lot more sense if seen through the eyes of 'Sawaris/Edens are probably going to change the manager in the next 6 months'.  As does not spending the Grealish money.  And that prog rock chap having a disproportionately prominent role for the last months of Dean's reign.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on November 29, 2021, 03:37:26 PM
Large areas of seats together still for both fixtures. 
Totally agree with the pricing £55 with no concessions is an absolute disgrace. Come on Villa do the right thing and add concessions or put an offer on to pack the stadium out.
17,000 at the Sty on Saturday. Another amazing effort from the biggest and bestest football club in Small Heath.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on November 29, 2021, 03:41:07 PM
There's plenty left in the £49.50 category.  Still a bit expensive in my book, but cheaper than a lot of other clubs I suspect.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Astral Weeks on November 29, 2021, 03:51:58 PM
I'm all for staying and redeveloping, but if we did have to move it doesn't have to be to a soulless bowl - take a look at these for inspiration - https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/list/ranking-nfl-stadiums-from-worst-to-best/dky07jdst5w1mcy7cgsm7q6s

The Lucas Oil Stadium is simply astounding!
I think they are horrible.
Does it never rain in America? Most of these stadiums have little or no cover.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on November 29, 2021, 03:57:56 PM
So much of my life has been invested in Villa Park for one reason or another, I would be devastated should it even be considered that we would move so please stop debating it and scaring the shit out of me.

Given Purslow’s comments Dave, I’d say there’s no chance whatsoever in the immediate future, it’s just an interesting debate. Unlike the new(ish) London grounds like Spurs or Arsenal, just knocking it down and rebuilding it isn’t an option. The good things about London is that the Underground system is brilliant, so getting to and from games is always a piece of piss for most teams. Birmingham doesn’t have anything like that, and there’s no immediately obvious location if they were considering a change. Personally I’d be talking to the council about using a new stadium as a hub for redevelopment in the hinterland behind Selfridges/The Bull Ring, ie to the east of Moor Street. At least somewhere like there everybody would have a choice of all the main stations and bus routes to use to get in and out, and there would be ample places for people to eat and drink before the game.

The Gun Quarter would be ideal I think. There’s not a lot over that way. One of the few areas right on the edge of the city where they might find enough space, close enough to give people eating/drinking options and good transport links, and just on the Aston side of town.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Astral Weeks on November 29, 2021, 04:02:42 PM
Every club of our size with a feel good factor around would sell out on a Sunday Afternoon. If we don't sell out against Leicester it might make the owners think twice before taking on a very expensive project.
I don't imagine it will do anything of the kind.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 29, 2021, 04:05:00 PM
Every club of our size with a feel good factor around would sell out on a Sunday Afternoon. If we don't sell out against Leicester it might make the owners think twice before taking on a very expensive project.
I don't imagine it will do anything of the kind.

“Cancel the recapitalisation and plans to import young talent Wesley, some bell on a website says there’s 200 unsold tickets!”
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 29, 2021, 04:26:28 PM
I'm all for staying and redeveloping, but if we did have to move it doesn't have to be to a soulless bowl - take a look at these for inspiration - https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/list/ranking-nfl-stadiums-from-worst-to-best/dky07jdst5w1mcy7cgsm7q6s

The Lucas Oil Stadium is simply astounding!
I think they are horrible.
Does it never rain in America? Most of these stadiums have little or no cover.
The only area that gets British weather is the Pacific North West. But some of the Outside sports events are played in staggeringly low temperatures.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on November 29, 2021, 04:42:49 PM
So much of my life has been invested in Villa Park for one reason or another, I would be devastated should it even be considered that we would move so please stop debating it and scaring the shit out of me.

Given Purslow’s comments Dave, I’d say there’s no chance whatsoever in the immediate future, it’s just an interesting debate. Unlike the new(ish) London grounds like Spurs or Arsenal, just knocking it down and rebuilding it isn’t an option. The good things about London is that the Underground system is brilliant, so getting to and from games is always a piece of piss for most teams. Birmingham doesn’t have anything like that, and there’s no immediately obvious location if they were considering a change. Personally I’d be talking to the council about using a new stadium as a hub for redevelopment in the hinterland behind Selfridges/The Bull Ring, ie to the east of Moor Street. At least somewhere like there everybody would have a choice of all the main stations and bus routes to use to get in and out, and there would be ample places for people to eat and drink before the game.

The Gun Quarter would be ideal I think. There’s not a lot over that way. One of the few areas right on the edge of the city where they might find enough space, close enough to give people eating/drinking options and good transport links, and just on the Aston side of town.
I do like the idea of moving to the Gun Quarter IF we had to relocate but that is another part of town that is rapidly being redeveloped so I can't imagine there being the space. Walkable from the Central area too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 29, 2021, 04:59:52 PM
Huge block of seats still available in P7. Club not promoting Tickets at all, get them on general sale on a special offer for Adult + Kids.  FFS!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 29, 2021, 05:02:58 PM
Huge block of seats still available in P7. Club not promoting Tickets at all, get them on general sale on a special offer for Adult + Kids.  FFS!

Good grief give it a rest. Nobody gives a fuck.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Smith on November 29, 2021, 05:06:15 PM
Anywhere we wanted to move to would receive countless objections from local residents and businesses that sorting the planning out would take years. That’s assuming that the council would be agreeable in the first place which is doubtful. We’d also need to find a willing buyer for the current site. I think it’s a nonstarter and finding solutions to the transport issues at Villa Park a more sensible approach. It’s in everyone’s interest, club, fans, local authority and police, that it should be possible to find a workable solution.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Smith on November 29, 2021, 05:08:10 PM
Huge block of seats still available in P7. Club not promoting Tickets at all, get them on general sale on a special offer for Adult + Kids.  FFS!

I can’t think why there might be an issue selling tickets to kids for a game finishing around 10:00 pm on a school night.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on November 29, 2021, 05:28:45 PM
Huge block of seats still available in P7. Club not promoting Tickets at all, get them on general sale on a special offer for Adult + Kids.  FFS!

Would you mind creating your own thread on Tickets and Travel and posting in there? You're obsessed about stuff that nobody else is. Rather than clogging up lots of different threads saying the same thing over and over, you (and we) may find peace. Unless you're trolling? Which of course, you're not.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on November 29, 2021, 05:35:00 PM
He's a massive troll. Bullshitting about being a season ticket holder, chatting endless shite about selling out when there's 0.01% capacity left.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: DrGonzo on November 29, 2021, 05:45:41 PM
IP ban? 

From the wording of the statement on DS's deadline day, it sounded like they were aware that this may have been a possibility if the season didn't start as they hoped.  That may also indicate why they didn't significantly invest, for the first time since the acquisition, over and above the Grealo money.  I'm hoping there is enough cash for 2 purchases.  We need cover or improvement in the LB slot and whilst we have numbers in midfield we don't have balance.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on November 29, 2021, 05:56:20 PM
Large areas of seats together still for both fixtures. 
Totally agree with the pricing £55 with no concessions is an absolute disgrace. Come on Villa do the right thing and add concessions or put an offer on to pack the stadium out.

I’m not going out to anything I don’t have to because of Covid. I’ve been out once socially since The Twang in September 2020. I think we’re doing brilliantly to sell out as I think there are probably thousands of Villa fans not risking it who would love to be there.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on November 29, 2021, 05:59:22 PM
Does it never rain in America? Most of these stadiums have little or no cover.

The only area that gets British weather is the Pacific North West. But some of the Outside sports events are played in staggeringly low temperatures.

Indeed, during 'The Ice Bowl' the temperature was -26C (-44C with wind chill).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_NFL_Championship_Game

Even Sean Dyche would have worn a jacket for that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richtheholtender on November 29, 2021, 06:03:21 PM
I can't make Wednesday's game and have opted to re-sell my ticket through the club.
It's a ticket for the Upper Holte, but it hasn't sold because the game hasn't sold out yet. It obviously would be cheaper than singles in the Trinity/DE stands.
I don't understand why the club doesn't activate my ticket for re-sale, as it would make them more money. I would only get 80% value of my ticket returned and they would also get full price for the ticket off someone else. A little bit of joined up thinking might make different price bands of tickets available to more supporters who may wish to attend the game.





I've had to sell mine back for Wednesday. Is that how it works? The ones sold back only go on sale once the game has sold out?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on November 29, 2021, 06:14:43 PM
Large areas of seats together still for both fixtures. 
Totally agree with the pricing £55 with no concessions is an absolute disgrace. Come on Villa do the right thing and add concessions or put an offer on to pack the stadium out.

I’m not going out to anything I don’t have to because of Covid. I’ve been out once socially since The Twang in September 2020. I think we’re doing brilliantly to sell out as I think there are probably thousands of Villa fans not risking it who would love to be there.

Agreed Percy. I've seen my family about three times in the last 18 months and have gone out twice socially, both in the last two weeks. I don't quite feel comfortable about being part of a crowd just yet.

Credit to the tens of thousands who do turn up to support the lads.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on November 29, 2021, 06:15:34 PM
Large areas of seats together still for both fixtures. 
Totally agree with the pricing £55 with no concessions is an absolute disgrace. Come on Villa do the right thing and add concessions or put an offer on to pack the stadium out.

I’m not going out to anything I don’t have to because of Covid. I’ve been out once socially since The Twang in September 2020. I think we’re doing brilliantly to sell out as I think there are probably thousands of Villa fans not risking it who would love to be there.



How are you coping, mate? You like your gigs and socialising, can imagine it's been different/difficult.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on November 29, 2021, 06:24:56 PM
Large areas of seats together still for both fixtures. 
Totally agree with the pricing £55 with no concessions is an absolute disgrace. Come on Villa do the right thing and add concessions or put an offer on to pack the stadium out.

I’m not going out to anything I don’t have to because of Covid. I’ve been out once socially since The Twang in September 2020. I think we’re doing brilliantly to sell out as I think there are probably thousands of Villa fans not risking it who would love to be there.



How are you coping, mate? You like your gigs and socialising, can imagine it's been different/difficult.

I’m okay with it mate. I can watch all the Villa games that are on TV and stream the others on my phone. I have to go out to work 5 nights and one morning a week so don’t have much spare time anyway. I just spend that time with the missus and kids. (I write mostly locked in the toilet at work - sshhh)!

I’m grateful that I enjoyed lockdown, I know many people struggled with it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on November 29, 2021, 06:36:47 PM
I can't make Wednesday's game and have opted to re-sell my ticket through the club.
It's a ticket for the Upper Holte, but it hasn't sold because the game hasn't sold out yet. It obviously would be cheaper than singles in the Trinity/DE stands.
I don't understand why the club doesn't activate my ticket for re-sale, as it would make them more money. I would only get 80% value of my ticket returned and they would also get full price for the ticket off someone else. A little bit of joined up thinking might make different price bands of tickets available to more supporters who may wish to attend the game.





I've had to sell mine back for Wednesday. Is that how it works? The ones sold back only go on sale once the game has sold out?

That's my understanding
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 29, 2021, 07:03:28 PM
I can't make Wednesday's game and have opted to re-sell my ticket through the club.
It's a ticket for the Upper Holte, but it hasn't sold because the game hasn't sold out yet. It obviously would be cheaper than singles in the Trinity/DE stands.
I don't understand why the club doesn't activate my ticket for re-sale, as it would make them more money. I would only get 80% value of my ticket returned and they would also get full price for the ticket off someone else. A little bit of joined up thinking might make different price bands of tickets available to more supporters who may wish to attend the game.





I've had to sell mine back for Wednesday. Is that how it works? The ones sold back only go on sale once the game has sold out?

That's my understanding

So you can't sell them and they won't unless there's a guaranteed market. Lovely.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 29, 2021, 07:23:15 PM
I don't think there's any chance we'll move.  If we did there's no point trying to build a replica Villa park. The best you could hope for is a version of what Spurs have built.

The location of Evertons new ground is fantastic, on the docks on the edge of the City, it will be an incredible stadium.  If you're going to relocate then that's the way to do it.  But lets face it we would end up at the NEC.

We can easily get to 50-55k seats where we are and that should do us for the next 20 years.
The NEC is there a more soulless place in England?



If we had to move it's probably most realistic place around.

With HS2 arriving in next 5 years going to be even more transport links than already present in terms of train/road and loads of car parking space so kills all the present arguments we're having in last week about limitations of VP.

If resorts world isn't your thing then can just booze in town and get the train down in ten minutes so pretty similar to getting to VP from New Street.

Big issue though is it will just be similar to West Ham in that it really wouldn't feel like home especially if we had some mediocre seasons as they did when they first moved in. Even Man. City fans probably longed for Maine Road first few years they were at Eastlands until the takeover happened and it didn't matter.

Non factor anyway as you don't extend VP to 50k and then move out a few years later but to me that's most viable option around, hasn't smithfield been sold and being built on in near future?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on November 29, 2021, 07:25:15 PM
So much of my life has been invested in Villa Park for one reason or another, I would be devastated should it even be considered that we would move so please stop debating it and scaring the shit out of me.

Given Purslow’s comments Dave, I’d say there’s no chance whatsoever in the immediate future, it’s just an interesting debate. Unlike the new(ish) London grounds like Spurs or Arsenal, just knocking it down and rebuilding it isn’t an option. The good things about London is that the Underground system is brilliant, so getting to and from games is always a piece of piss for most teams. Birmingham doesn’t have anything like that, and there’s no immediately obvious location if they were considering a change. Personally I’d be talking to the council about using a new stadium as a hub for redevelopment in the hinterland behind Selfridges/The Bull Ring, ie to the east of Moor Street. At least somewhere like there everybody would have a choice of all the main stations and bus routes to use to get in and out, and there would be ample places for people to eat and drink before the game.

I accept the points you made Martin and the spirit in which they are intended.  I know that should a relocation take place it would be for the greater good and that; in the greater scheme of things is correct but as I said I have such an affinity with the Old Girl because of the path my life has taken, which is something I would only talk about in private, that should Villa Park disappear I would be heartbroken.  I have no wish to stand in the way of expansion to enable more fans to attend and hopefully enjoy what I have experienced for what is a lifetime.  Notwithstanding, I know the transport sytem back home in Brum is shit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on November 29, 2021, 07:25:25 PM
Aston Villa can't be further east than them lot. It just wouldn't be right.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 29, 2021, 07:27:07 PM
Do I understand that the tramline to the Alex goes along the Birchfield Rd to town? Will that ease some of the transport pain or has it been shelved?

It's just sprint buses now isn't it?

Obvious solution would be a tram right down Lichfield Road as it's certainly wide for most of the route and it terminates at Star City (or possibly extended to the Fort). That would get decent service in and out on matchdays but as said above would take about 20 years to build judging by how long the present extension up Broad street is taking.

Meanwhile some cotton town in the north builds an extension to the airport in about six months....
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 29, 2021, 07:30:54 PM
Aston Villa can't be further east than them lot. It just wouldn't be right.

Nothing wrong with the east, we train out here anyway. North of the M6 would be more appropriate, maybe out by Hams Hall, straight off the M42. The train station is there at the arse end of Coleshill, job done. Plus I could walk to games.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: wince on November 29, 2021, 08:23:31 PM
Well we are still well short of selling out against Man City and more worryingly Leicester. It appears the Club have made no real push to get bums on seats. I think it's going to look rather ridiculous if we have 10,000 empty seats if people don't want to turn out on Evenings and Sunday Afternoons

That's on the back of Two wins and a new Head Coach, what would it be like if we had a bad run and Fulham on a Tuesday night.

Knock down the Village, Get shuttles on, tart the North Stand up and improve the Catering by simplifying the offerings in compact areas like the DE stand. Whilst keeping our current capacity as an increase does not appear to be needed unless the 20,000 start showing their faces and the club price the games fairly

Fuck me. The 20000. It’s like a grimmer version of Tennysons charge of the light brigade. 10k to the left 10k to the right, into the valley of Aston rode the 20000..........

Are you broken Fred or on a mission from God or something or just on the wind up?

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on November 29, 2021, 08:33:42 PM
Well we are still well short of selling out against Man City and more worryingly Leicester. It appears the Club have made no real push to get bums on seats. I think it's going to look rather ridiculous if we have 10,000 empty seats if people don't want to turn out on Evenings and Sunday Afternoons

That's on the back of Two wins and a new Head Coach, what would it be like if we had a bad run and Fulham on a Tuesday night.

Knock down the Village, Get shuttles on, tart the North Stand up and improve the Catering by simplifying the offerings in compact areas like the DE stand. Whilst keeping our current capacity as an increase does not appear to be needed unless the 20,000 start showing their faces and the club price the games fairly

Fuck me. The 20000. It’s like a grimmer version of Tennysons charge of the light brigade. 10k to the left 10k to the right, into the valley of Aston rode the 20000..........

Are you broken Fred or on a mission from God or something or just on the wind up?



The Rapture will not come until every seat is filled.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: astonvilla82 on November 29, 2021, 08:48:18 PM
Have we sold out yet,not good form old boy
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on November 29, 2021, 08:52:48 PM
As a thought, given the Doug Ellis Stand can't be a great deal bigger than it is at the moment the most sensible route for that may be to increase the revenue yield on it.  Rebuild it completely as a high spec stand focussed on corporate hospitality.  Then rebuild the north stand as a standalone single tier giant.  We'd see the ground slowly morph in to having the posh/corporate stuff on the Witton Lane / Trinity Road stands, with the two ends acting as cheaper stands to increase the capacity to 50k+
I sort of like that idea. It sure appeals more than moving away from our home of around 125 years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 29, 2021, 08:58:29 PM
The problem with trying to increase revenue in the Witton Lane is that there isn't enough space to do the high-end corporate stuff. You can't have restaurants there and you're too removed from Trinity Road to get the ex-player gladhanding.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Zouch Villa on November 29, 2021, 09:15:28 PM
The problem with trying to increase revenue in the Witton Lane is that there isn't enough space to do the high-end corporate stuff. You can't have restaurants there and you're too removed from Trinity Road to get the ex-player gladhanding.

We could run a zip wire from the Trinity across to the Witton Lane, then we have the additional entertainment of watching Cowans, Little and Spinks flying across to mix with the better class of football fans.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on November 29, 2021, 09:27:32 PM
As a thought, given the Doug Ellis Stand can't be a great deal bigger than it is at the moment the most sensible route for that may be to increase the revenue yield on it.  Rebuild it completely as a high spec stand focussed on corporate hospitality.  Then rebuild the north stand as a standalone single tier giant.  We'd see the ground slowly morph in to having the posh/corporate stuff on the Witton Lane / Trinity Road stands, with the two ends acting as cheaper stands to increase the capacity to 50k+
I sort of like that idea. It sure appeals more than moving away from our home of around 125 years.

125th anniversary next April, I believe? Well the 100th was marked on my first trip to VP, April'97. 1-1 with Spurs, average game but we got a late equaliser through Dwight.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on November 29, 2021, 11:36:10 PM
The problem with trying to increase revenue in the Witton Lane is that there isn't enough space to do the high-end corporate stuff. You can't have restaurants there and you're too removed from Trinity Road to get the ex-player gladhanding.

What do you think is the most viable option, Dave?

Personally, I think if we were to rebuild the North and improve the facilities in the Witton, expanding to maybe 48k, that would do.

I think we need a tidy-up rather than a move, but I just walk from my parents' in Perry Barr, so granted I'm probably overlooking the transport issues.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 30, 2021, 12:00:01 AM
The problem with trying to increase revenue in the Witton Lane is that there isn't enough space to do the high-end corporate stuff. You can't have restaurants there and you're too removed from Trinity Road to get the ex-player gladhanding.

What do you think is the most viable option, Dave?

Personally, I think if we were to rebuild the North and improve the facilities in the Witton, expanding to maybe 48k, that would do.

I think we need a tidy-up rather than a move, but I just walk from my parents' in Perry Barr, so granted I'm probably overlooking the transport issues.

I haven't got a clue. I've never thought that much above 50,000-ish is needed long-term because our gates have never needed it, but where that extra 8,000 comes from is beyond me. On one side there's Aston Park, which should never be touched. On the other two there's a lot of housing, and the days when we could buy them up cheaply are over. Then there's the problems of transport, public and other. There is no way we would get permission for extra capacity until that's sorted.

The sort of extra numbers we need aren't really enough to justify a move, and where we would we go? Most new out of town grounds are the anchor of a retail development and I can't see another one of them going up any time soon. There isn't an inner city site available. Maybe we missed a trick in not doing something at the Comonwealth Games stadium but Aston Villa not playing at Villa Park - is anything worth that?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on November 30, 2021, 12:19:21 AM
The problem with trying to increase revenue in the Witton Lane is that there isn't enough space to do the high-end corporate stuff. You can't have restaurants there and you're too removed from Trinity Road to get the ex-player gladhanding.

What do you think is the most viable option, Dave?

Personally, I think if we were to rebuild the North and improve the facilities in the Witton, expanding to maybe 48k, that would do.

I think we need a tidy-up rather than a move, but I just walk from my parents' in Perry Barr, so granted I'm probably overlooking the transport issues.

I haven't got a clue. I've never thought that much above 50,000-ish is needed long-term because our gates have never needed it, but where that extra 8,000 comes from is beyond me. On one side there's Aston Park, which should never be touched. On the other two there's a lot of housing, and the days when we could buy them up cheaply are over. Then there's the problems of transport, public and other. There is no way we would get permission for extra capacity until that's sorted.

The sort of extra numbers we need aren't really enough to justify a move, and where we would we go? Most new out of town grounds are the anchor of a retail development and I can't see another one of them going up any time soon. There isn't an inner city site available. Maybe we missed a trick in not doing something at the Comonwealth Games stadium but Aston Villa not playing at Villa Park - is anything worth that?

A measured response. (Waits for someone to accuse me of brown-nosing.)

My folks live about 10 minutes from Alexander Stadium and the surrounding park, so it would be great for me!

But I want us to stay where we are. I'd rather a reduced capacity but improved experience.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Scott Nielsen on November 30, 2021, 03:41:47 AM
I'm all for staying and redeveloping, but if we did have to move it doesn't have to be to a soulless bowl - take a look at these for inspiration - https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/list/ranking-nfl-stadiums-from-worst-to-best/dky07jdst5w1mcy7cgsm7q6s

The Lucas Oil Stadium is simply astounding!
I think they are horrible.

Some look pretty good. I've been to CenturyField (I think it has changed name now) and it was great. A bit odd with that half-stand at one end but it works and gives it a bit of character.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sid1964 on November 30, 2021, 06:38:28 AM
if we increased to 50,000 - how many times in a season would we fill the stadium?

Personally I think that it is a huge amount of  money that we would need to be spend to increase the capacity. when there is no real demand for this on a regular basis

When the 29,000 season ticket holders get their renewal cost for next season, I think we may all be in a for shock with the increase in price



Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mortimer's Bear on November 30, 2021, 07:07:12 AM
Never leave Villa Park and don't touch the Holte End, simple as that isn't it?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on November 30, 2021, 07:20:57 AM
if we increased to 50,000 - how many times in a season would we fill the stadium?

Personally I think that it is a huge amount of  money that we would need to be spend to increase the capacity. when there is no real demand for this on a regular basis

When the 29,000 season ticket holders get their renewal cost for next season, I think we may all be in a for shock with the increase in price





You didn't think we'd sell out the season tickets.

We'd shift 50,000 on a regular basis, as we'd have 38,000 season ticket holders with an increased capacity. Remove supply and demand follows. This is what the club has successfully done for the first time in many years.

Getting a ticket at Villa Park is not as easy as it was and statistically by occupancy, only 3 clubs fill more of the ground every week.

Away tickets for the uninitiated are more myth than reality. ~200 left for Norwich a week before Christmas on a Tuesday night at 5+ aways tells you everything.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 30, 2021, 07:42:46 AM
One thing good about the Randy Lerner era was they were very proactive in getting the stadium full. Ticket offers for locals,schools and phone calls/emails to get you in the stadium. Surely someone could be calling up the 20,000 and telling them there's availability for the next three Home fixtures if you want to build up a Booking History
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on November 30, 2021, 07:46:17 AM
Look desperate.  That is always a good way of doing business.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 30, 2021, 07:55:52 AM
if we increased to 50,000 - how many times in a season would we fill the stadium?

Personally I think that it is a huge amount of  money that we would need to be spend to increase the capacity. when there is no real demand for this on a regular basis

When the 29,000 season ticket holders get their renewal cost for next season, I think we may all be in a for shock with the increase in price
For a start we would increase away capacity by say 2k
Season tickets by 5k so we are not looking at lots of unsold tickets or empty seats.
There is also demand for more hospitality. You would also expect the improvement to provide better match day revenue opportunities.
The capital outlay would be FFP neutral and would add value to the Land and Building assets.
So it is pretty easy to how the financial case stacks up.
The biggest issue is transportation not ground development.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on November 30, 2021, 08:26:07 AM
I haven't got a clue. I've never thought that much above 50,000-ish is needed long-term because our gates have never needed it, but where that extra 8,000 comes from is beyond me. On one side there's Aston Park, which should never be touched. On the other two there's a lot of housing, and the days when we could buy them up cheaply are over. Then there's the problems of transport, public and other. There is no way we would get permission for extra capacity until that's sorted.
The sort of extra numbers we need aren't really enough to justify a move, and where we would we go? Most new out of town grounds are the anchor of a retail development and I can't see another one of them going up any time soon. There isn't an inner city site available. Maybe we missed a trick in not doing something at the Comonwealth Games stadium but Aston Villa not playing at Villa Park - is anything worth that?
Given the constraints on each side, the 8-10k increase would have to come from increasing the size of the Holte - building back - and the North stand. This is doable albeit incredibly disruptive during the rebuild.
What can we learn - if anything - about transport in other cities on matchday? - Parking and public transport to / from VP has never been great, in my experience (and if my failing memory serves). I travel from afar by car and will continue to do so as long as I can, until public transport generally improves (getting to and from north of Leeds for matches held at all times of the week is usually doable but pretty time-consuming).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Demitri_C on November 30, 2021, 08:35:19 AM
Filling the stadium isnt the issue, getting fans there and back is.

The one thing i dislike about going villa park is the journey home. Its a absolute shambles most nights
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on November 30, 2021, 08:35:30 AM
Forget leaving Villa Park. I would hate that. There's scope at the North Stand to go another 5/8k which I think is sufficient for now and long long overdue as it's just so outdated and frankly it's ugly to me. Long term the Witton Lane is the biggest problem and buying up houses and moving a road will be a monumental problem. Rebuild it better on the existing footprint would be a solution to the cramped overcrowding problems that we have now (thanks doug). As for transport it would seem that the problems are mainly felt at the two stations that serve Villa park. Surely a line of buses on the Lichfield Rd going towards the city and towards Sutton isn't too much of an ask but would require joined up thinking and co-operation between the cluband the council? Thousands have already walked that far anyway to get to Aston station.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 30, 2021, 08:50:16 AM
A few pages back (I think) Chico said that Tottenham and Arsenal have built good stadiums. I can't comment on Spurs', the Emirates a terrible ground. Highbury was wonderful. The new one feels like sitting in a multiplex in Telford, but the burgers cost £17 (that price is true, as of two seasons ago, and I doubt they've reduced them).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan82 on November 30, 2021, 08:54:15 AM
You easily add 8,000 to the capacity by building a new North Stand. The new stand would be wider and deeper. There are acres of space there.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on November 30, 2021, 09:00:09 AM
A new North, steeper and deeper with two rows of exec boxes, wrapped a bit more towards the Trinity would do it. The Witton could be steeper too and possibly built over the road like the Trinity.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 30, 2021, 09:01:18 AM
A few pages back (I think) Chico said that Tottenham and Arsenal have built good stadiums. I can't comment on Spurs', the Emirates a terrible ground. Highbury was wonderful. The new one feels like sitting in a multiplex in Telford, but the burgers cost £17 (that price is true, as of two seasons ago, and I doubt they've reduced them).

I went to Spurs our first game back in the Premier League. It's an amazing stadium. The one that feels shit is West Ham. Good stadium, just doesn't feel like it was designed for football.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on November 30, 2021, 09:04:56 AM
A few pages back (I think) Chico said that Tottenham and Arsenal have built good stadiums. I can't comment on Spurs', the Emirates a terrible ground. Highbury was wonderful. The new one feels like sitting in a multiplex in Telford, but the burgers cost £17 (that price is true, as of two seasons ago, and I doubt they've reduced them).

I went to Spurs our first game back in the Premier League. It's an amazing stadium. The one that feels shit is West Ham. Good stadium, just doesn't feel like it was designed for football.

I've not been and don't fancy it. The best places are where the crowd are in top of the pitch, not half a mile away across a running track.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on November 30, 2021, 09:05:26 AM
West Ham looks and feels temporary - weirdly disjointed stands, concourses open to the elements, no pubs with miles... just wrong.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on November 30, 2021, 09:05:55 AM
I'm not an architect/planner but you'd think looking at the North Stand, you could redevelop that, fill in the corners, modify the other stands etc.. and squeeze out as near as dammit 50k for now. If we eventually became massively successful and needed more, then a new/redeveloped stadium would eventually become on the cards, but I don't think it's a wasted investment improving Villa Park until we know that will happen. The transport links is a harder question to answer as its not in our hands and for example rail companies/network rail are not going to provide extra coaches/ increased line capacity just because they'll be used 25 days per year. For now just do what we can I reckon.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on November 30, 2021, 09:10:27 AM
All it needs is for the club to come to an agreement with the police for one priority access route and to lay on a load of coaches back to the city centre.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 30, 2021, 09:17:12 AM
A few pages back (I think) Chico said that Tottenham and Arsenal have built good stadiums. I can't comment on Spurs', the Emirates a terrible ground. Highbury was wonderful. The new one feels like sitting in a multiplex in Telford, but the burgers cost £17 (that price is true, as of two seasons ago, and I doubt they've reduced them).

I went to Spurs our first game back in the Premier League. It's an amazing stadium. The one that feels shit is West Ham. Good stadium, just doesn't feel like it was designed for football.

West Ham is the worst place I've ever watched football. And I've been to Molineux.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 30, 2021, 09:26:58 AM
You could only build up the two ends by removing parking spaces and that's not going to be allowed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on November 30, 2021, 09:36:07 AM
You could only build up the two ends by removing parking spaces and that's not going to be allowed.
What if we could provide spaces elsewhere nearby?  Wouldn't that do it?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 30, 2021, 09:41:56 AM
You could only build up the two ends by removing parking spaces and that's not going to be allowed.
What if we could provide spaces elsewhere nearby?  Wouldn't that do it?

First there isn't the space locally, and second the parking at the ground is mainly corporately and they wouldn't take too kindly to having to walk.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on November 30, 2021, 09:44:42 AM
You could only build up the two ends by removing parking spaces and that's not going to be allowed.

Looking at the north stand could you not wrap round the top of stands to join the others by modifying the roofs? bottom left bit at least?

(https://footballtripper.com/wp-content/uploads/villa-park-guide.jpg)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on November 30, 2021, 09:46:39 AM
So you don't think redeveloping the North Stand is viable?  If not, I don't really see how we can have a long term future at VP.   It would be a real choker if we have to move but surely we need a 50k plus stadium if we want to get where we all want us to be?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: artvandelay on November 30, 2021, 09:54:26 AM
Can't we knock down the old Stumps (I think we're doing that anyway) and put car parking on that site?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on November 30, 2021, 09:56:28 AM
You could only build up the two ends by removing parking spaces and that's not going to be allowed.
What if we could provide spaces elsewhere nearby?  Wouldn't that do it?

First there isn't the space locally, and second the parking at the ground is mainly corporately and they wouldn't take too kindly to having to walk.

There's no reason why they couldn't have parking under the New North? Plus there could be scope to reduce the size of the academy building?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on November 30, 2021, 09:57:38 AM
You could only build up the two ends by removing parking spaces and that's not going to be allowed.
What if we could provide spaces elsewhere nearby?  Wouldn't that do it?

First there isn't the space locally, and second the parking at the ground is mainly corporately and they wouldn't take too kindly to having to walk.

There's no reason why they couldn't have parking under the New North? Plus there could be scope to reduce the size of the academy building?

Isn’t all the academy stuff going over to the new Academy site on Brookvale Road?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on November 30, 2021, 10:00:35 AM
You could only build up the two ends by removing parking spaces and that's not going to be allowed.
What if we could provide spaces elsewhere nearby?  Wouldn't that do it?

First there isn't the space locally, and second the parking at the ground is mainly corporately and they wouldn't take too kindly to having to walk.
We were at Old Trafford in corporate recently and we were dropped off in a taxi as there wasn't any parking. Maybe there is for the high rollers but most people in corporate get there by their own steam. And surely there's plenty of room to increase the size of the North Stand and replace any lost parking spaces? Personally I think people will eventually have to get used to the idea of far less private parking on matchdays at the stadium. So were back to the thorny issue of public transport in the city.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on November 30, 2021, 10:04:25 AM
I presume Dave is referring to it being a planning stumbling block as opposed to a 'nice to have'  Dave - is this something you're aware of as a fact, or just your judgment?

Based on the photo above, it looks to me that we're probably talking about c30-50 spaces if we're just looking at a larger stand, as opposed to hotels, museums etc.  That wouldn't seem insurmountable to me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 30, 2021, 11:03:27 AM
I presume Dave is referring to it being a planning stumbling block as opposed to a 'nice to have'  Dave - is this something you're aware of as a fact, or just your judgment?

Based on the photo above, it looks to me that we're probably talking about c30-50 spaces if we're just looking at a larger stand, as opposed to hotels, museums etc.  That wouldn't seem insurmountable to me.

I'm sure that some years ago we were told that we couldn't increase capacity until paking and (I'm less sure on this one) public transport were increased/improved. I also believe - again, not for certain - that a lot of the parking at the ground is for the boxes and sponsors, and there might also be access requrements for emergency services that has to be looked at. It may well be surmountable but it's a lot more complex than sticking another tier on one stand and going back a bit for another. Then there's all the ancient light regulations and that sort of stuff.   
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 30, 2021, 11:09:38 AM
You could only build up the two ends by removing parking spaces and that's not going to be allowed.
What if we could provide spaces elsewhere nearby?  Wouldn't that do it?

First there isn't the space locally, and second the parking at the ground is mainly corporately and they wouldn't take too kindly to having to walk.

Where do the corporates for Trinity park?

With all the London grounds there's very little visible on the surface parking. Of course public transport helps but for example all the team coaches go underground so I'd be surprised if we don't look at that with a new North Stand rather than have them parked outside so that should free up more space for corporate parking round there.

There's acres of space around the back of North stand so if we box clever we can hopefully create a wonderful new stand (and museum) and still have the parking needed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 30, 2021, 11:14:00 AM

There's acres of space around the back of North stand so if we box clever we can hopefully create a wonderful new stand (and museum) and still have the parking needed.

Mainly in the Holte End, but some in the North Stand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on November 30, 2021, 11:15:48 AM
I presume Dave is referring to it being a planning stumbling block as opposed to a 'nice to have'  Dave - is this something you're aware of as a fact, or just your judgment?

Based on the photo above, it looks to me that we're probably talking about c30-50 spaces if we're just looking at a larger stand, as opposed to hotels, museums etc.  That wouldn't seem insurmountable to me.

I'm sure that some years ago we were told that we couldn't increase capacity until paking and (I'm less sure on this one) public transport were increased/improved. I also believe - again, not for certain - that a lot of the parking at the ground is for the boxes and sponsors, and there might also be access requrements for emergency services that has to be looked at. It may well be surmountable but it's a lot more complex than sticking another tier on one stand and going back a bit for another. Then there's all the ancient light regulations and that sort of stuff.   
Yes makes sense.  "Just knock down a few houses, move the road, take a bit of the park...."   It's easy for fans at a keyboard, notsomuch in real life.  Will be facinating to see what options they come up with.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 30, 2021, 11:18:18 AM
I presume Dave is referring to it being a planning stumbling block as opposed to a 'nice to have'  Dave - is this something you're aware of as a fact, or just your judgment?

Based on the photo above, it looks to me that we're probably talking about c30-50 spaces if we're just looking at a larger stand, as opposed to hotels, museums etc.  That wouldn't seem insurmountable to me.

I'm sure that some years ago we were told that we couldn't increase capacity until paking and (I'm less sure on this one) public transport were increased/improved. I also believe - again, not for certain - that a lot of the parking at the ground is for the boxes and sponsors, and there might also be access requrements for emergency services that has to be looked at. It may well be surmountable but it's a lot more complex than sticking another tier on one stand and going back a bit for another. Then there's all the ancient light regulations and that sort of stuff.   
Yes makes sense.  "Just knock down a few houses, move the road, take a bit of the park...."   It's easy for fans at a keyboard, notsomuch in real life.  Will be facinating to see what options they come up with.

One of the probems we traditionally had was that the club's attitude was just that - we were here first and we can do what we like. Luckily recent owners have tried to work with the community rather than against them; for all his faults that was one positive aspect of Lerner's legacy. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on November 30, 2021, 11:21:54 AM
Definitely agree with that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on November 30, 2021, 11:22:02 AM
I presume Dave is referring to it being a planning stumbling block as opposed to a 'nice to have'  Dave - is this something you're aware of as a fact, or just your judgment?

Based on the photo above, it looks to me that we're probably talking about c30-50 spaces if we're just looking at a larger stand, as opposed to hotels, museums etc.  That wouldn't seem insurmountable to me.

I'm sure that some years ago we were told that we couldn't increase capacity until paking and (I'm less sure on this one) public transport were increased/improved. I also believe - again, not for certain - that a lot of the parking at the ground is for the boxes and sponsors, and there might also be access requrements for emergency services that has to be looked at. It may well be surmountable but it's a lot more complex than sticking another tier on one stand and going back a bit for another. Then there's all the ancient light regulations and that sort of stuff.   
Just thinking about light regulations, and corporate nonsense.  With the Witton Lane stand, could you build over Witton Lane with the roof sloping downwards towards the park (so you'd have a pitched roof).  It wouldn't increase capacity, but you'd get more internal room in the stand for wider concourses, more room for restaurant-y type things.

Done right, you'd get a unique looking stand that could add to the character of the ground.  Thinking something a bit like our last stand with a pitched roof, over on the other side of the ground (obvs the pitch would be completely different, but done in a similar kind of style ...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on November 30, 2021, 11:29:54 AM
I presume Dave is referring to it being a planning stumbling block as opposed to a 'nice to have'  Dave - is this something you're aware of as a fact, or just your judgment?

Based on the photo above, it looks to me that we're probably talking about c30-50 spaces if we're just looking at a larger stand, as opposed to hotels, museums etc.  That wouldn't seem insurmountable to me.

I'm sure that some years ago we were told that we couldn't increase capacity until paking and (I'm less sure on this one) public transport were increased/improved. I also believe - again, not for certain - that a lot of the parking at the ground is for the boxes and sponsors, and there might also be access requrements for emergency services that has to be looked at. It may well be surmountable but it's a lot more complex than sticking another tier on one stand and going back a bit for another. Then there's all the ancient light regulations and that sort of stuff.   

The light regulations would definitely come into play if we tried to fill the corners by the north stand, particularly on the trinity road side. The passage around that corner is already fairly narrow and, I suspect, goes very close to the limit of what we'd be allowed to do. Nelson Road is just as big a limitation as Witton Lane is in my opinion which is why the current trinity road stand does dip in a fair way towards that end which I don't think you'd do without it being a requirement.


This is why the more I look at it the less options I see to get a 50-60k international standard stadium on the site. I love Villa park but there's going to be some difficult decisions to make over the next few years if the plan is to be a regular champions league team (which is certainly the vision we've been sold).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on November 30, 2021, 01:18:28 PM
Club have at least finally posted that Tickets are available for tomorrow on the official website.

Few Hundred left
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 30, 2021, 01:20:13 PM
Club have at least finally posted that Tickets are available for tomorrow on the official website.

Few Hundred left

(https://i.imgur.com/FhzF1zJ.gif)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 30, 2021, 01:29:33 PM
One thing I would never want us to do is to do what Liverpool did and aquire space around the ground by slowly strangling the community house by house and making it unliveable for the people who wanted to stay once they'd bought a specific number of houses.

Awful, shitty way to behave.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on November 30, 2021, 01:35:27 PM
One thing I would never want us to do is to do what Liverpool did and aquire space around the ground by slowly strangling the community house by house and making it unliveable for the people who wanted to stay once they'd bought a specific number of houses.

Awful, shitty way to behave.
I agree completely. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on November 30, 2021, 01:54:55 PM
Club have at least finally posted that Tickets are available for tomorrow on the official website.

Few Hundred left

No point moaning here. We don't give a shit. Try your MP.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 30, 2021, 02:52:13 PM

This is why the more I look at it the less options I see to get a 50-60k international standard stadium on the site. I love Villa park but there's going to be some difficult decisions to make over the next few years if the plan is to be a regular champions league team (which is certainly the vision we've been sold).

I love it too, but it's the romantic idea of it rather than the actual realities of a visit, and the fact that my grandparents and as far as I know, great-grandparents went there as well. Just about everything else about it is rubbish. Getting to it and away from it, rubbish. Availability of parking - rubbish. Facilities and service inside - rubbish. North stand - rubbish. Doug Ellis stand - rubbish. Ability to improve corporate revenue - rubbish (eg North Stand and Doug Ellis boxes being behind glass) Ability to have a drink/something to eat before the game in the surrounding area - rubbish.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 30, 2021, 02:59:56 PM
That last one's a good point. Most of the other old school grounds/locations have got good surrounding infrastructure but Villa Park is getting worse all the time. There's barely half a dozen pubs within walking distance plus a couple of chippys. Compare that to Liverpool, Manchester and Newcastle for example. Even Small Heath is better.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 30, 2021, 03:00:00 PM

This is why the more I look at it the less options I see to get a 50-60k international standard stadium on the site. I love Villa park but there's going to be some difficult decisions to make over the next few years if the plan is to be a regular champions league team (which is certainly the vision we've been sold).

I love it too, but it's the romantic idea of it rather than the actual realities of a visit, and the fact that my grandparents and as far as I know, great-grandparents went there as well. Just about everything else about it is rubbish. Getting to it and away from it, rubbish. Availability of parking - rubbish. Facilities and service inside - rubbish. North stand - rubbish. Doug Ellis stand - rubbish. Ability to improve corporate revenue - rubbish (eg North Stand and Doug Ellis boxes being behind glass) Ability to have a drink/something to eat before the game in the surrounding area - rubbish.
agree, but what happens if its replaced with a soulless bowl by the NEC?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Smith on November 30, 2021, 03:16:59 PM
I think it is extremely unlikely that we will find anywhere in a suitable location to build a new stadium that the council would agree to let us use. All the issues raided concerning the current location are likely to be replicated everywhere else within the city boundaries.

I am sure it is not beyond the capabilities of a decent architect to design something that will provide the additional capacity and facilities and to work with the train operators and bus companies to upgrade services.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 30, 2021, 03:20:36 PM
That last one's a good point. Most of the other old school grounds/locations have got good surrounding infrastructure but Villa Park is getting worse all the time. There's barely half a dozen pubs within walking distance plus a couple of chippys. Compare that to Liverpool, Manchester and Newcastle for example. Even Small Heath is better.

I love how close St James' Park is to the city centre. Would be great if we had similar, but very unlikely I suppose.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on November 30, 2021, 03:23:17 PM
That last one's a good point. Most of the other old school grounds/locations have got good surrounding infrastructure but Villa Park is getting worse all the time. There's barely half a dozen pubs within walking distance plus a couple of chippys. Compare that to Liverpool, Manchester and Newcastle for example. Even Small Heath is better.

I love how close St James' Park is to the city centre. Would be great if we had similar, but very unlikely I suppose.

Never say never but as I think others have pointed out it’s really only the Gun Quarter then the bit round towards Aston Uni which would feel right from a location perspective.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on November 30, 2021, 03:46:41 PM
I love it too, but it's the romantic idea of it rather than the actual realities of a visit, and the fact that my grandparents and as far as I know, great-grandparents went there as well. Just about everything else about it is rubbish. Getting to it and away from it, rubbish. Availability of parking - rubbish. Facilities and service inside - rubbish. North stand - rubbish. Doug Ellis stand - rubbish. Ability to improve corporate revenue - rubbish (eg North Stand and Doug Ellis boxes being behind glass) Ability to have a drink/something to eat before the game in the surrounding area - rubbish.

No VIP cheese room either, FFS!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 30, 2021, 04:16:40 PM
I think it is extremely unlikely that we will find anywhere in a suitable location to build a new stadium that the council would agree to let us use. All the issues raided concerning the current location are likely to be replicated everywhere else within the city boundaries.



I don't agree. If it was within 10-15 minute walk of the City Centre then I reckon the vast majority of fans would use public transport to get there, and you'd have all of the major stations (New Street, Snow Hill, Moor Street) that would be available, and all of the major bus routes, plus taxis etc. Plus having all of Birminghams pubs and restaurants available before and after would mean people would stagger their arrival and departure time a lot more. All that happens now is that tens of thousands of people spend a lot of time sitting in traffic, or queuing at inadequate stations. They could be spending their time and money in the city centre instead.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on November 30, 2021, 04:27:38 PM
Is the area opposite the O2 Academy part of the Smithfield site? Doesn't look like much is there barring some small industrial units that could probably be persuaded to move to newer premises?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Smith on November 30, 2021, 04:41:25 PM
I think it is extremely unlikely that we will find anywhere in a suitable location to build a new stadium that the council would agree to let us use. All the issues raided concerning the current location are likely to be replicated everywhere else within the city boundaries.



I don't agree. If it was within 10-15 minute walk of the City Centre then I reckon the vast majority of fans would use public transport to get there, and you'd have all of the major stations (New Street, Snow Hill, Moor Street) that would be available, and all of the major bus routes, plus taxis etc. Plus having all of Birminghams pubs and restaurants available before and after would mean people would stagger their arrival and departure time a lot more. All that happens now is that tens of thousands of people spend a lot of time sitting in traffic, or queuing at inadequate stations. They could be spending their time and money in the city centre instead.



Where exactly are the council going to give up land to a football club given all of the issues that creates and at a time when they are obligated to make land available for housing?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Smith on November 30, 2021, 04:44:36 PM
Is the area opposite the O2 Academy part of the Smithfield site? Doesn't look like much is there barring some small industrial units that could probably be persuaded to move to newer premises?

Do you mean in Digbeth, about a mile from St Andrews?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on November 30, 2021, 04:52:36 PM
I'd prefer something in, or very close, to Aston.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on November 30, 2021, 05:08:05 PM
Is the area opposite the O2 Academy part of the Smithfield site? Doesn't look like much is there barring some small industrial units that could probably be persuaded to move to newer premises?

Do you mean in Digbeth, about a mile from St Andrews?

I mean on the A38. about 2 miles from there. Which is about a mile closer than we are now. Granted we may need air-con.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on November 30, 2021, 05:11:40 PM
Is the area opposite the O2 Academy part of the Smithfield site? Doesn't look like much is there barring some small industrial units that could probably be persuaded to move to newer premises?

Do you mean in Digbeth, about a mile from St Andrews?

But in the historic Aston Parish boundaries.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Smith on November 30, 2021, 05:18:34 PM
Is the area opposite the O2 Academy part of the Smithfield site? Doesn't look like much is there barring some small industrial units that could probably be persuaded to move to newer premises?

Do you mean in Digbeth, about a mile from St Andrews?

I mean on the A38. about 2 miles from there. Which is about a mile closer than we are now. Granted we may need air-con.

Gotcha, it’s pretty much in the city centre I reckon it’s a non starter for a host of reasons around cost, disruption and competing demands.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: usav on November 30, 2021, 05:25:46 PM
Haven't seen if anyone suggested this already, but did we miss an opportunity with the Alexander stadium site and the upgrade going on there?  Not sure the transportation situation would be any better there?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on November 30, 2021, 05:26:25 PM
The idea of moving horrifies me.  But I must admit city centre grounds are fantastic and something on the edge of the City would interest me.  A different sport but Cardiff Arms Park / Millenium Stadium is a brilliant day out.  I think the new Everton stadium will be just superb for their fans.  But I just don't see us finding anything that the council would accept and I doubt the land value of our current site would help viability either.

I'm convinced if we move it will be to the NEC and that will be just horrible.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 30, 2021, 05:30:59 PM
I don't think there's that much land available at the NEC. There's a lot of work going on at the M42/A45 junction and HS2 is bound to have an effect on the other side.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: usav on November 30, 2021, 05:35:49 PM
The idea of moving horrifies me.  But I must admit city centre grounds are fantastic and something on the edge of the City would interest me.  A different sport but Cardiff Arms Park / Millenium Stadium is a brilliant day out.  I think the new Everton stadium will be just superb for their fans.  But I just don't see us finding anything that the council would accept and I doubt the land value of our current site would help viability either.

I'm convinced if we move it will be to the NEC and that will be just horrible.

Detroit and Indianapolis both have stadiums in the centre of their cities and it can work.   However, you don't have to move to help revitalize an area.   As someone who went to Old Trafford in the late 80s early 90s, it was in a worse area than Villa Park has ever been.  They renovated the stadium and then the infrastructure came to them - so it is possible to do it the other way around.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on November 30, 2021, 05:38:12 PM
They must have a plan hence the request for planning permission.  Be interesting to see what it looks like.  New north stand with an additional tier mayve?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on November 30, 2021, 05:39:25 PM
I think it is extremely unlikely that we will find anywhere in a suitable location to build a new stadium that the council would agree to let us use. All the issues raided concerning the current location are likely to be replicated everywhere else within the city boundaries.



I don't agree. If it was within 10-15 minute walk of the City Centre then I reckon the vast majority of fans would use public transport to get there, and you'd have all of the major stations (New Street, Snow Hill, Moor Street) that would be available, and all of the major bus routes, plus taxis etc. Plus having all of Birminghams pubs and restaurants available before and after would mean people would stagger their arrival and departure time a lot more. All that happens now is that tens of thousands of people spend a lot of time sitting in traffic, or queuing at inadequate stations. They could be spending their time and money in the city centre instead.



Where exactly are the council going to give up land to a football club given all of the issues that creates and at a time when they are obligated to make land available for housing?
Exactly. I just can't think of anywhere suitable for a new stadium and in the right location. Redeveloping Villa Park is the only viable option in my view. Our biggest obstacle is going to be cooperation from the council, transport companies and local residents. Enlarging the North Stand is the only sensible option as it stands but only with planning permission from a council that seems happy to ignore the huge football club in the Aston district of the city.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on November 30, 2021, 06:15:52 PM
Regarding the parking or lack of, I wonder if a multi-story has been considered. It could perhaps be excavated down as well as upwards to reduce the likely ugly appearance. The only issue then would be getting cars in and out if it. Maybe a temporary one way system is required at both ends of the ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on November 30, 2021, 06:23:34 PM
On multi story car parks
I was at the Derngate Theatre in Northampton last week and parked in a multistorey car park right next to the building
Getting away was a nightmare as everyone was there at the same time as it would be at a football match
And this was 100 cars maybe not even that

So what it would be like with a few thousand Don’t bear thinking about
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 30, 2021, 06:26:41 PM
For all its faults regarding transport, the great asset Villa Park enjoys is two stations and two motorway junctions. I can't think of anywhere else in the city where we could get that. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on November 30, 2021, 06:26:48 PM
On multi story car parks
I was at the Derngate Theatre in Northampton last week and parked in a multistorey car park right next to the building
Getting away was a nightmare as everyone was there at the same time as it would be at a football match
And this was 100 cars maybe not even that

So what it would be like with a few thousand Don’t bear thinking about

I did think of that (I remember being stuck on Wembley's multi-story after we'd lost to Fulham - you can imagine the frustration) which is why I suggested the one-way system.

I suppose it's like being between a rock and a hard place, and brings us back nicely to the local infrastructure.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 30, 2021, 06:30:13 PM
For all its faults regarding transport, the great asset Villa Park enjoys is two stations and two motorway junctions. I can't think of anywhere else in the city where we could get that.
It really shouldn't be that difficult considering.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 30, 2021, 07:27:41 PM
On multi story car parks
I was at the Derngate Theatre in Northampton last week and parked in a multistorey car park right next to the building
Getting away was a nightmare as everyone was there at the same time as it would be at a football match
And this was 100 cars maybe not even that

So what it would be like with a few thousand Don’t bear thinking about


Would be more for team coaches and corporates really so they wouldn't go out until at least an hour after the game.

Actually a good idea might be to move some away fans back into North stand (perhaps stick them in the corner like at a few grounds) and so their coaches can use potential underground car park aswell and you then free up the current away car park for home fans perhaps.

Can't see how road infrastructure can be improved much though unless you probably open up the emergency exit the other side of Villa Village currently so avoiding the roundabout.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: wince on November 30, 2021, 07:35:39 PM
The idea of moving horrifies me.  But I must admit city centre grounds are fantastic and something on the edge of the City would interest me.  A different sport but Cardiff Arms Park / Millenium Stadium is a brilliant day out.  I think the new Everton stadium will be just superb for their fans.  But I just don't see us finding anything that the council would accept and I doubt the land value of our current site would help viability either.

I'm convinced if we move it will be to the NEC and that will be just horrible.

Slight in the know about NEC but any redevelopment will be for housing or soundstaging. There is no room there.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 30, 2021, 07:41:44 PM
Is there enough room at the back of the North Stand to allow a shallow enough ramp for either multi-storey or underground car parking?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on November 30, 2021, 08:15:25 PM
If we went underground it might be the best way to add facilities to the DE stand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Fasth56 on November 30, 2021, 08:32:59 PM
If we were to look for a new site, we could do worse than look at the Windsor Street gas site. Holders are going soon and the site would take some clearing up but it's within walking distance of the city and large enough to accommodate the ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: saunders_heroes on November 30, 2021, 08:46:21 PM
Pity there’s not a site near the new Curzon St station where we could build. I’d love a new state of the art stadium in the city centre.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on November 30, 2021, 09:06:42 PM
If we were to look for a new site, we could do worse than look at the Windsor Street gas site. Holders are going soon and the site would take some clearing up but it's within walking distance of the city and large enough to accommodate the ground.

That site would definitely be big enough and has good potential for transport links but how easy is it the cleanup after the towers?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on November 30, 2021, 09:15:21 PM
Look at the low value/empty sheds in and around newtown either side of summer lane… potential there?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Fasth56 on November 30, 2021, 09:21:22 PM
If we were to look for a new site, we could do worse than look at the Windsor Street gas site. Holders are going soon and the site would take some clearing up but it's within walking distance of the city and large enough to accommodate the ground.

That site would definitely be big enough and has good potential for transport links but how easy is it the cleanup after the towers?

The RICOH was built on the old Foleshill gas works, there is a lot of crap in the ground after 150 years of the holders being there and will be expensive to clean up but in the scheme of things it would be peanuts compared to the cost of building a new stadium
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: luke95 on November 30, 2021, 09:38:12 PM
If we were to look for a new site, we could do worse than look at the Windsor Street gas site. Holders are going soon and the site would take some clearing up but it's within walking distance of the city and large enough to accommodate the ground.

Already earmarked for student accommodation  on that site isnt it .
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Demitri_C on December 01, 2021, 07:42:24 AM
For all its faults regarding transport, the great asset Villa Park enjoys is two stations and two motorway junctions. I can't think of anywhere else in the city where we could get that.

Thats the problem it has all of this and its still a shambles getting home. When i went spurs its double what we have in terms of capacity and terrible for congestion but you can still get home easier than villa park.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on December 01, 2021, 08:59:24 AM
In terms of car park, it wouldn't necessarily have to be a full on multi storey - a simple open air 2 deck car park would be relatively cheap and more than compensate for any parking lost by the redev.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on December 01, 2021, 09:37:40 AM
You'd wonder if the Star City site would be an option, its struggled for years. Or the area along the spine road where the HS2 Enabling yard is.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on December 01, 2021, 10:00:37 AM
For all its faults regarding transport, the great asset Villa Park enjoys is two stations and two motorway junctions. I can't think of anywhere else in the city where we could get that.
It really shouldn't be that difficult considering.
Even though there's two stations it's the same stretch of track. Maybe they could try 1 or 2 football specials northbound Witton only and City centre Aston only. But again with no co-operation from the train providers it's very difficult. Again ANDY STREET where are you?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on December 01, 2021, 10:01:31 AM
On an interminable conference call with Flin5tone.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: exigo on December 01, 2021, 10:22:54 AM
For all its faults regarding transport, the great asset Villa Park enjoys is two stations and two motorway junctions. I can't think of anywhere else in the city where we could get that.
It really shouldn't be that difficult considering.
Even though there's two stations it's the same stretch of track. Maybe they could try 1 or 2 football specials northbound Witton only and City centre Aston only. But again with no co-operation from the train providers it's very difficult. Again ANDY STREET where are you?

That would send most away fans towards Aston, which is exactly what the current system tries to avoid.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on December 01, 2021, 10:32:41 AM
Pity there’s not a site near the new Curzon St station where we could build. I’d love a new state of the art stadium in the city centre.

Something someone told me the other day is that HS2 goes mainly underground from the turn off spur to Curzon St, if thats the case maybe there are lots of above ground options all along the route?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Smith on December 01, 2021, 10:37:39 AM
Pity there’s not a site near the new Curzon St station where we could build. I’d love a new state of the art stadium in the city centre.

Something someone told me the other day is that HS2 goes mainly underground from the turn off spur to Curzon St, if thats the case maybe there are lots of above ground options all along the route?

Maybe, but I doubt anything would be sanctioned which might impact on HS2 construction, so that rules it until about  2099.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 01, 2021, 11:21:02 AM
Again ANDY STREET where are you?

In California, albeit 16 miles from Villa Park. https://tinyurl.com/yuaztc8n
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brend'Watkins on December 01, 2021, 11:24:57 AM
I'd be happy with a 50,000 capacity as it will cover demand for the next 5 to 10 years and it's doable architecturally with adjustments to the current ground.  Anything above for an all-seater stadium is tricky but doable at a cost.  A great cost.  It would mean road lay out changes, Housing purchases, transport upgrades etc which is all less viable. Safe standing if it actually becomes a thing could get us to 60,000 within most of the current footprint. A completely new North Stand would be required for this.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 01, 2021, 11:35:53 AM
I'd be happy with a 50,000 capacity as it will cover demand for the next 5 to 10 years and it's doable architecturally with adjustments to the current ground.  Anything above for an all-seater stadium is tricky but doable at a cost.  A great cost.  It would mean road lay out changes, Housing purchases, transport upgrades etc which is all less viable. Safe standing if it actually becomes a thing could get us to 60,000 within most of the current footprint. A completely new North Stand would be required for this.

All that sounds good to me, 50-60k would be plenty.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Zouch Villa on December 01, 2021, 11:59:15 AM
Emotions aside, one of the major factors against moving away from Villa park is the land would undoubtedly be worth far less than any site we’d want to move to.  I suspect a lot of the other teams that made the decision to move to a completely new build stadium, the financials made much more sense as there was significant value in redeveloping their previous site.

We would be far better investing in the infrastructure and an upgrade of Villa park to get us just north of 50k which should serve us fine for the foreseeable.  I’m also not convinced trying to plan parking and transport around the majority of fans driving to within half a mile of the ground. 

They should be looking at co-ordinated parking away from the ground with better transport links to shuttle fans.  The sad fact is, other than the game itself there’s very little reason for fans to spend more time in the area pre and post match, so we’ll always have the challenge of everyone arriving and leaving within the same time frame.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on December 01, 2021, 12:24:26 PM
Emotions aside, one of the major factors against moving away from Villa park is the land would undoubtedly be worth far less than any site we’d want to move to.  I suspect a lot of the other teams that made the decision to move to a completely new build stadium, the financials made much more sense as there was significant value in redeveloping their previous site.


Depends where we want to move to. For a logistics company, land that close to J6 of the M6 could be very valuable.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 01, 2021, 12:39:17 PM
Emotions aside, one of the major factors against moving away from Villa park is the land would undoubtedly be worth far less than any site we’d want to move to.  I suspect a lot of the other teams that made the decision to move to a completely new build stadium, the financials made much more sense as there was significant value in redeveloping their previous site.


Depends where we want to move to. For a logistics company, land that close to J6 of the M6 could be very valuable.
I'm no expert on these things but I would guess that you'd have a problem with getting permission for that in a residential area
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on December 01, 2021, 12:45:53 PM
Maybe we'd have 2 Villa Parks. The current one for the Academy and Women.... Effectively redevelop the site and create a community hub, with lots of different activities.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: rjp on December 01, 2021, 12:56:19 PM
When I leave the ground I need to get on the M6 South, it's usually hideous.  A match day mode on the traffic lights around spaghetti junction and Cuckoo Road could improve things a lot I reckon.  It should be possible with today's modern software controlled lights.  A little more priority given to the Lichfield Road at the island underneath would improve the capacity at that bottleneck without having too much of an impact on the other entrances/exits.  Maybe the same could be done for other bottlenecks.

Alternatively a big helicopter that will pick up my little car and drop me off on the sleepy M69 would do the job nicely.  Particularly for 20:15 kick offs on a school night.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on December 01, 2021, 12:59:54 PM
When I leave the ground I need to get on the M6 South, it's usually hideous.  A match day mode on the traffic lights around spaghetti junction and Cuckoo Road could improve things a lot I reckon.  It should be possible with today's modern software controlled lights.  A little more priority given to the Lichfield Road at the island underneath would improve the capacity at that bottleneck without having too much of an impact on the other entrances/exits.  Maybe the same could be done for other bottlenecks.

Alternatively a big helicopter that will pick up my little car and drop me off on the sleepy M69 would do the job nicely.  Particularly for 20:15 kick offs on a school night.

I'm the same as you rip. I either do M6 south and then M69 and skirt around the bottom of Leicester, or do M6/A14/A6 past Market Harborough.  I'm sure if they did a local survey, they'd much prefer half an hour of one way traffic so the majority of cars are going in one direction, than the two hours of chaos they actually get, when it must be impossible to go anywhere.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on December 01, 2021, 01:07:01 PM
Emotions aside, one of the major factors against moving away from Villa park is the land would undoubtedly be worth far less than any site we’d want to move to.  I suspect a lot of the other teams that made the decision to move to a completely new build stadium, the financials made much more sense as there was significant value in redeveloping their previous site.


Depends where we want to move to. For a logistics company, land that close to J6 of the M6 could be very valuable.
I'm no expert on these things but I would guess that you'd have a problem with getting permission for that in a residential area
Yes.  Although close the access routes just aren't good enough for logistics.  It would almost certainly go for housing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on December 01, 2021, 01:08:00 PM
The alternative for you two is to try and get to J5 at Castle Brom, but plenty already do, the A47 gets backed up to the Fort and it's a bollocksed for me. I've taken to heading south through Saltley/ Alum Rock and then Through Stetchford to get back and avoid it all, which works quite well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on December 01, 2021, 01:21:00 PM
The alternative for you two is to try and get to J5 at Castle Brom, but plenty already do, the A47 gets backed up to the Fort and it's a bollocksed for me. I've taken to heading south through Saltley/ Alum Rock and then Through Stetchford to get back and avoid it all, which works quite well.

The A47 would take me right to my door, if they hadn't cruelly downgraded the bit between Brum and Nuneaton to the B4114.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: rjp on December 01, 2021, 01:21:03 PM
The alternative for you two is to try and get to J5 at Castle Brom, but plenty already do, the A47 gets backed up to the Fort and it's a bollocksed for me. I've taken to heading south through Saltley/ Alum Rock and then Through Stetchford to get back and avoid it all, which works quite well.

We do use that route occasionally but as you say, it gets backed up too until you get past Bromford.  Lichfield Road is still the most frustrating part.  It's also the bit screws up the area for the locals on the Holte side of the ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on December 01, 2021, 01:28:01 PM
Emotions aside, one of the major factors against moving away from Villa park is the land would undoubtedly be worth far less than any site we’d want to move to.  I suspect a lot of the other teams that made the decision to move to a completely new build stadium, the financials made much more sense as there was significant value in redeveloping their previous site.


Depends where we want to move to. For a logistics company, land that close to J6 of the M6 could be very valuable.
I'm no expert on these things but I would guess that you'd have a problem with getting permission for that in a residential area

Possibly. There's already a similarly (massive) sized plot of commercial/industrial land behind the church and Serpentine Road though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 01, 2021, 01:39:17 PM
Emotions aside, one of the major factors against moving away from Villa park is the land would undoubtedly be worth far less than any site we’d want to move to.  I suspect a lot of the other teams that made the decision to move to a completely new build stadium, the financials made much more sense as there was significant value in redeveloping their previous site.


Depends where we want to move to. For a logistics company, land that close to J6 of the M6 could be very valuable.
I'm no expert on these things but I would guess that you'd have a problem with getting permission for that in a residential area

Possibly. There's already a similarly (massive) sized plot of commercial/industrial land behind the church and Serpentine Road though.

Again I don't know, but I would guess that a logistics company would want 24 hour working and, as Chris said, the access routes don't seem to lend themselves to transport. The likes of Amazon are based on the outskirts of small towns for a reason.   
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 01, 2021, 01:41:34 PM
Emotions aside, one of the major factors against moving away from Villa park is the land would undoubtedly be worth far less than any site we’d want to move to.  I suspect a lot of the other teams that made the decision to move to a completely new build stadium, the financials made much more sense as there was significant value in redeveloping their previous site.


Depends where we want to move to. For a logistics company, land that close to J6 of the M6 could be very valuable.
I'm no expert on these things but I would guess that you'd have a problem with getting permission for that in a residential area

Possibly. There's already a similarly (massive) sized plot of commercial/industrial land behind the church and Serpentine Road though.

Again I don't know, but I would guess that a logistics company would want 24 hour working and, as Chris said, the access routes don't seem to lend themselves to transport. The likes of Amazon are based on the outskirts of small towns for a reason.   

There has been immense development of that type from the ground, up Aston Lane and right up towards the power league of late, so I wouldn't be surprised if it did get used for some industrial / logistics centre.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on December 01, 2021, 01:43:42 PM
True enough. I guess our main problem is that we're slap bang in the middle of the biggest urban conurbation outside of London. It's a bit easier in the likes of Liverpool or Manchester when 10 minutes in the car and you're in the open countryside.


edit: replying to Dave.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on December 01, 2021, 03:36:16 PM
Do the safe-standing rails help to save space and inflate capacity? I didn't think that was the case as people still have roughly the same designated space to move in whether it's sitting, standing or dancing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 01, 2021, 03:38:29 PM
Do the safe-standing rails help to save space and inflate capacity? I didn't think that was the case as people still have roughly the same designated space to move in whether it's sitting, standing or dancing.

They make no difference; it's the entrance/exits & facilities that dictate capacity.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 01, 2021, 03:45:33 PM
Going back to multi-storey car parks - I can't see a council anywhere the the land giving permission for one to be built in our circumstances, given their remit to generally reduce car use in city centres.

Could we not run shuttles from Digbeth, which I believe is built for such things, then people could get the train into New St/Moor St?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 01, 2021, 04:04:21 PM
Going back to multi-storey car parks - I can't see a council anywhere the the land giving permission for one to be built in our circumstances, given their remit to generally reduce car use in city centres.

Could we not run shuttles from Digbeth, which I believe is built for such things, then people could get the train into New St/Moor St?

You'd be as quick walking.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 01, 2021, 04:08:08 PM
Going back to multi-storey car parks - I can't see a council anywhere the the land giving permission for one to be built in our circumstances, given their remit to generally reduce car use in city centres.

Could we not run shuttles from Digbeth, which I believe is built for such things, then people could get the train into New St/Moor St?

You'd be as quick walking.

But some of us are lazy bastards, Dave!

As a non-regular, I get the train anyway and think of the congestion as part of the experience. I can see how it'd soon become a pain in the arse every second week.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on December 01, 2021, 04:09:10 PM
Going back to multi-storey car parks - I can't see a council anywhere the the land giving permission for one to be built in our circumstances, given their remit to generally reduce car use in city centres.

Could we not run shuttles from Digbeth, which I believe is built for such things, then people could get the train into New St/Moor St?

For my part I was only talking about putting a part single deck on to replace the spaces lost from the redev, which Dave identified as one of the limiting factors of extending the North Stand
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on December 01, 2021, 05:40:05 PM
I was looking at Witton Station on Google Earth earlier. I noticed to the north-east of the Birmingham-bound platform there was what looks like some space (I marked in red on the image). Enough space, perhaps,  to place a couple of siding lines, maybe with a wide (wider than the current) platform between them. I've no idea if such a construction would cost five million, 10 million or a hundred million, but if the train operators could be persuaded to provide two extra four-carriage trains twenty-something times per season then this could help relieve some of the immediate congestion after games.
(https://i.ibb.co/txDsdvt/hours13-11-2021.png) (https://ibb.co/txDsdvt)

current monitor resolution (https://whatsmyscreenresolution.com/)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 01, 2021, 05:42:24 PM
I was looking at Witton Station on Google Earth earlier. I noticed to the north-east of the Birmingham-bound platform there was what looks like some space (I marked in red on the image). Enough space, perhaps,  to place a couple of siding lines, maybe with a wide (wider than the current) platform between them. I've no idea if such a construction would cost five million, 10 million or a hundred million, but if the train operators could be persuaded to provide two extra four-carriage trains twenty-something times per season then this could help relieve some of the immediate congestion after games.
(https://i.ibb.co/txDsdvt/hours13-11-2021.png) (https://ibb.co/txDsdvt)

current monitor resolution (https://whatsmyscreenresolution.com/)


Isn't that ground much lower than the railway line?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: usav on December 01, 2021, 06:00:42 PM
I was looking at Witton Station on Google Earth earlier. I noticed to the north-east of the Birmingham-bound platform there was what looks like some space (I marked in red on the image). Enough space, perhaps,  to place a couple of siding lines, maybe with a wide (wider than the current) platform between them. I've no idea if such a construction would cost five million, 10 million or a hundred million, but if the train operators could be persuaded to provide two extra four-carriage trains twenty-something times per season then this could help relieve some of the immediate congestion after games.
(https://i.ibb.co/txDsdvt/hours13-11-2021.png) (https://ibb.co/txDsdvt)

current monitor resolution (https://whatsmyscreenresolution.com/)


Isn't that ground much lower than the railway line?

Fill it in with a bit of dirt - job done.

/not a civil engineer.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on December 01, 2021, 06:00:44 PM
I was looking at Witton Station on Google Earth earlier. I noticed to the north-east of the Birmingham-bound platform there was what looks like some space (I marked in red on the image). Enough space, perhaps,  to place a couple of siding lines, maybe with a wide (wider than the current) platform between them. I've no idea if such a construction would cost five million, 10 million or a hundred million, but if the train operators could be persuaded to provide two extra four-carriage trains twenty-something times per season then this could help relieve some of the immediate congestion after games.
(https://i.ibb.co/txDsdvt/hours13-11-2021.png) (https://ibb.co/txDsdvt)

current monitor resolution (https://whatsmyscreenresolution.com/)


Isn't that ground much lower than the railway line?

Yeah 4m-ish lower by the look of it on pictures (where you can only see the tops of the trees).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on December 01, 2021, 06:03:01 PM
It is. About 12ft according to Google Earth. It would need in-filling and compacting to bring it level with the existing line while supporting the weight of lines, sleepers, rolling stock, etc. I doubt that's a cheap option hence my mention of the figures in my original post. But then there is clearly no viable cheap options to solving the conjestion issue. Whatever happens, if the club have to pay, it's going to sting.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on December 01, 2021, 06:21:49 PM
The transport thing will be difficult to fix. Planning for railways typically takes decades rather than something you can sort out in a few weeks, particularly where new infrastructure is concerned. The Walsall tram extension might offer some options in the future, but again planning and soforth will mean that that’s decades away.

Buses or coaches I suspect will be the only viable option in the coming years. They’re unlikely to help with, or be helped by, road congestion around the ground though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan82 on December 01, 2021, 09:04:30 PM
what's the point anymore? Aston Villa, the original super club. Biggest club in the Midlands. Former European champions. Now, stuck in a game where what counts is that your billionaire owner has more billions than the next billionaire owner.

Everything that has happened today has been a real reminder of how crap the modern game is and why I just don't know why anybody should bother with it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Demitri_C on December 01, 2021, 09:10:45 PM
what's the point anymore? Aston Villa, the original super club. Biggest club in the Midlands. Former European champions. Now, stuck in a game where what counts is that your billionaire owner has more billions than the next billionaire owner.

Everything that has happened today has been a real reminder of how crap the modern game is and why I just don't know why anybody should bother with it.

Sadly i agree. I dont think we will ever  finish above citeh  in our lifetimes.

We gotta dream and believe but i just cant see it. Moneys killed the game, the gaps only gonna get worse if anything
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan82 on December 01, 2021, 09:12:17 PM
From the moment that bloody tweet was sent it has been a sobering day.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 01, 2021, 09:49:18 PM
what's the point anymore? Aston Villa, the original super club. Biggest club in the Midlands. Former European champions. Now, stuck in a game where what counts is that your billionaire owner has more billions than the next billionaire owner.

Everything that has happened today has been a real reminder of how crap the modern game is and why I just don't know why anybody should bother with it.

The obvious contradiction with that is that our particular billionaire owners have more money than all but three other billionaire owners in the English game.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan82 on December 01, 2021, 10:09:00 PM
Fair point
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on December 01, 2021, 10:18:57 PM
From the moment that bloody tweet was sent it has been a sobering day.

What tweet was that?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TonyD on December 01, 2021, 10:24:17 PM
It just needs a bit of progressive imagination and cooperation with the council.

1.To knock the Holte down and build a 20k wall.   That would put the Holte back on the map and be a massive icon again for the club. 

2. Knock the North Stand down and build a beautiful big first tier like the Witton Bank with a 7k top tier globe like stand cladded with claret n blue tiles. 

We have extended over the Trinity Road before with the new stand  - so it can be done with consultation and cooperation.

3.  Transport to ground - build it and will happen.  Old Trafford is an example from when they expanded. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Beard82 on December 01, 2021, 10:25:47 PM
what's the point anymore? Aston Villa, the original super club. Biggest club in the Midlands. Former European champions. Now, stuck in a game where what counts is that your billionaire owner has more billions than the next billionaire owner.

Everything that has happened today has been a real reminder of how crap the modern game is and why I just don't know why anybody should bother with it.

The obvious contradiction with that is that our particular billionaire owners have more money than all but three other billionaire owners in the English game.
Yeah but at the same time the investment we have made is more sustainable - investment throughout the whole club.  Pep has spent nearly a billion pounds on a team that had already won the league.  Buying players like joe have who they don’t need just cos they can - the likes of them and maybe Newcastle are playing a different game - one that’s about building the owners reputation for when oil isn’t the world currency
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 01, 2021, 10:29:09 PM
what's the point anymore? Aston Villa, the original super club. Biggest club in the Midlands. Former European champions. Now, stuck in a game where what counts is that your billionaire owner has more billions than the next billionaire owner.

Everything that has happened today has been a real reminder of how crap the modern game is and why I just don't know why anybody should bother with it.

The obvious contradiction with that is that our particular billionaire owners have more money than all but three other billionaire owners in the English game.
Yeah but at the same time the investment we have made is more sustainable - investment throughout the whole club.  Pep has spent nearly a billion pounds on a team that had already won the league.  Buying players like joe have who they don’t need just cos they can - the likes of them and maybe Newcastle are playing a different game - one that’s about building the owners reputation for when oil isn’t the world currency

Yeah, i don't disagree with any of that really, but just saying, if we think the billionaire thing is bad, think about the tens and tens of clubs to whom we are a moneyed bunch of interlopers
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TonyD on December 01, 2021, 10:32:02 PM
what's the point anymore? Aston Villa, the original super club. Biggest club in the Midlands. Former European champions. Now, stuck in a game where what counts is that your billionaire owner has more billions than the next billionaire owner.

Everything that has happened today has been a real reminder of how crap the modern game is and why I just don't know why anybody should bother with it.

The obvious contradiction with that is that our particular billionaire owners have more money than all but three other billionaire owners in the English game.
Yeah but at the same time the investment we have made is more sustainable - investment throughout the whole club.  Pep has spent nearly a billion pounds on a team that had already won the league.  Buying players like joe have who they don’t need just cos they can - the likes of them and maybe Newcastle are playing a different game - one that’s about building the owners reputation for when oil isn’t the world currency
Thing is  - at this level  -  the key is the right manager.  Pep ain’t all that. Just always had great  players. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan82 on December 01, 2021, 10:34:56 PM
From the moment that bloody tweet was sent it has been a sobering day.

What tweet was that?

The official club twitter put out a montage of Joe Grealish and said we all welcomed him back to Villa park tonight!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on December 01, 2021, 10:35:36 PM
How could they possibly think that tweet was a good idea?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Beard82 on December 01, 2021, 10:39:57 PM
what's the point anymore? Aston Villa, the original super club. Biggest club in the Midlands. Former European champions. Now, stuck in a game where what counts is that your billionaire owner has more billions than the next billionaire owner.

Everything that has happened today has been a real reminder of how crap the modern game is and why I just don't know why anybody should bother with it.

The obvious contradiction with that is that our particular billionaire owners have more money than all but three other billionaire owners in the English game.
Yeah but at the same time the investment we have made is more sustainable - investment throughout the whole club.  Pep has spent nearly a billion pounds on a team that had already won the league.  Buying players like joe have who they don’t need just cos they can - the likes of them and maybe Newcastle are playing a different game - one that’s about building the owners reputation for when oil isn’t the world currency

Yeah, i don't disagree with any of that really, but just saying, if we think the billionaire thing is bad, think about the tens and tens of clubs to whom we are a moneyed bunch of interlopers
Yeah I agree - although as a club we seem to be a bit more grounded into our history.  That’s why I wanted dean and joe to lead us to success as it had some integrity about it. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on December 01, 2021, 11:32:15 PM
From the moment that bloody tweet was sent it has been a sobering day.

What tweet was that?

The official club twitter put out a montage of Joe Grealish and said we all welcomed him back to Villa park tonight!

Ah, yes - not a great idea in my humble opinion.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 01, 2021, 11:32:42 PM
What has really fucking pissed me off all through today is this idea that we're some sort of feeder team and should be grateful that we had the opportunity to train up a player until one of the proper clubs wanted him. And what has really, REALLY fucking pissed me off is that the worst culprits have been some of our own supporters. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on December 02, 2021, 12:25:30 AM
What has really fucking pissed me off all through today is this idea that we're some sort of feeder team and should be grateful that we had the opportunity to train up a player until one of the proper clubs wanted him. And what has really, REALLY fucking pissed me off is that the worst culprits have been some of our own supporters. 

Some truly sickening behaviour in the ground today.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on December 02, 2021, 12:28:52 AM
What has really fucking pissed me off all through today is this idea that we're some sort of feeder team and should be grateful that we had the opportunity to train up a player until one of the proper clubs wanted him. And what has really, REALLY fucking pissed me off is that the worst culprits have been some of our own supporters.

Yes 👍
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 02, 2021, 12:32:30 AM
And what I don't understand is this:

Whe Andy Gray left for a British record fee we had a fatwah on him for years. When Platt left he was generally ignored. When Yorke left he was public enemy number one. There was none of this we should be grateful and thank him bollocks then. What's different now?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: rooboy316 on December 02, 2021, 12:41:44 AM
And what I don't understand is this:

Whe Andy Gray left for a British record fee we had a fatwah on him for years. When Platt left he was generally ignored. When Yorke left he was public enemy number one. There was none of this we should be grateful and thank him bollocks then. What's different now?

Personally, I want a fatwa on him. But to consider your question, is part of the reason that he tried to play the nice guy and said nice things about us while and after leaving? Also, with the rest, we liked them for their footballing ability whereas Joe was all that + local boy and fan done good... bit more special?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 02, 2021, 12:51:43 AM
And what I don't understand is this:

Whe Andy Gray left for a British record fee we had a fatwah on him for years. When Platt left he was generally ignored. When Yorke left he was public enemy number one. There was none of this we should be grateful and thank him bollocks then. What's different now?

Personally, I want a fatwa on him. But to consider your question, is part of the reason that he tried to play the nice guy and said nice things about us while and after leaving? Also, with the rest, we liked them for their footballing ability whereas Joe was all that + local boy and fan done good... bit more special?

It wasn't even that. The narrative was he did really well for us and we got a lot of money for him so we should all poliltely applaud and not be horrible.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 02, 2021, 01:04:15 AM
And what I don't understand is this:

Whe Andy Gray left for a British record fee we had a fatwah on him for years. When Platt left he was generally ignored. When Yorke left he was public enemy number one. There was none of this we should be grateful and thank him bollocks then. What's different now?
It sort of confirms this notion of two types of fans, we belong in the legacy fans bucket.
The power of celebrity has taken over and sadly a significant part of our fan base has fallen for it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 02, 2021, 01:13:37 AM
And what I don't understand is this:

Whe Andy Gray left for a British record fee we had a fatwah on him for years. When Platt left he was generally ignored. When Yorke left he was public enemy number one. There was none of this we should be grateful and thank him bollocks then. What's different now?
It sort of confirms this notion of two types of fans, we belong in the legacy fans bucket.
The power of celebrity has taken over and sadly a significant part of our fan base has fallen for it.


Sadly, that's probably the right answer.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on December 02, 2021, 01:16:12 AM
41,450 there tonight. Far too many forelock tugging bootlickers for my liking mind.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on December 02, 2021, 01:18:04 AM
Honestly, I just don't get it. If your partner, who gave you children, was a great cook, put money into the house and grew out of his or her shell and grew in confidence in your relationship, fucked off with the flash bastard up the road in the big house and Roller (with go faster stripes), would you welcome him /her back a couple of months later? Would you fuck. You wouldn't be grateful for what s/he had given, you'd be pissed off, regardless off the divorce settlement.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 02, 2021, 01:18:17 AM
It’s also an evolution of what is a fan. There are those more traditional like many of us but the club also has to cater to a new generation of players and supporters. They are more the future than us and maybe a more antagonistic approach doesn’t work. Especially when we have players at the club that are genuinely his friends and simply put, not everyone feels the way many of us do. Jack Grealish is a celebrity of sorts. I don’t care for him, or follow him on social media, but lots do. The club didn’t play into any unnecessary controversy and tomorrow it’s all forgotten and doesn’t linger.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on December 02, 2021, 01:21:49 AM
It'll linger for me. The club made a big mistake on social media.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 02, 2021, 02:01:45 AM
Just who in earth thought that was a good idea?  He’s most of the reason why our Fcukin season has derailed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on December 02, 2021, 02:17:22 AM
What has really fucking pissed me off all through today is this idea that we're some sort of feeder team and should be grateful that we had the opportunity to train up a player until one of the proper clubs wanted him. And what has really, REALLY fucking pissed me off is that the worst culprits have been some of our own supporters. 

Some truly sickening behaviour in the ground today.

100% both. Even being purely dispassionate, why would we wish him well? HE'S AN OPPONENT!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Scott Nielsen on December 02, 2021, 02:18:16 AM
It'll linger for me. The club made a big mistake on social media.

They really did. And no way is there some junior media-manager to blame for it, this whole thing would have been sanctioned by Purslow. Now, he is not stupid so there must be a reason for doing it. Either playing up to a new type of supporter or some sort of existing hand-shake agreement to pave the way for a future return to Villa for G.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 02, 2021, 02:30:31 AM
It'll linger for me. The club made a big mistake on social media.

They really did. And no way is there some junior media-manager to blame for it, this whole thing would have been sanctioned by Purslow. Now, he is not stupid so there must be a reason for doing it. Either playing up to a new type of supporter or some sort of existing hand-shake agreement to pave the way for a future return to Villa for G.

I assume it's because kids have grown up playing FIFA and have started to follow players as much as clubs, so they probably don't want to piss them off by ignoring his return in the hope that they keep turning up and buying tat from the Villa.

I think it stinks, but it seems the logical conclusion to me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on December 02, 2021, 02:34:20 AM
It'll linger for me. The club made a big mistake on social media.

They really did. And no way is there some junior media-manager to blame for it, this whole thing would have been sanctioned by Purslow. Now, he is not stupid so there must be a reason for doing it. Either playing up to a new type of supporter or some sort of existing hand-shake agreement to pave the way for a future return to Villa for G.

I assume it's because kids have grown up playing FIFA and have started to follow players as much as clubs, so they probably don't want to piss them off by ignoring his return in the hope that they keep turning up and buying tat from the Villa.

I think it stinks, but it seems the logical conclusion to me.

Then the kids can fuck off. It isn't their fault that their parents failed them, but that's what's happened, and such errors should not be indulged.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 02, 2021, 02:42:33 AM
You're knocking at an open door with me, Rory. It's a (possible) explanation, not an excuse!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on December 02, 2021, 02:44:25 AM
Hmm. I'm beginning to think you're a soft touch, Paddy.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 02, 2021, 02:46:17 AM
Hmm. I'm beginning to think you're a soft touch, Paddy.

That has never been in doubt. Ask the waiters here who get 300 Peso tips, when 30 would be more appropriate.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on December 02, 2021, 02:50:10 AM
Hmm. I'm beginning to think you're a soft touch, Paddy.

That has never been in doubt. Ask the waiters here who get 300 Peso tips, when 30 would be more appropriate.

I'm with you there. Every delivery driver to me gets £5 in addition to the delivery fee, and every waiter gets £10. Purely out of social awkwardness.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 02, 2021, 02:55:10 AM
Hmm. I'm beginning to think you're a soft touch, Paddy.

That has never been in doubt. Ask the waiters here who get 300 Peso tips, when 30 would be more appropriate.

I'm with you there. Every delivery driver to me gets £5 in addition to the delivery fee, and every waiter gets £10. Purely out of social awkwardness.

The very same. This feels like a low status version of the scene where Partridge meets Dan in the BP garage for the first time.

"I see you're not driving a Lexus!"
"No. I can't drive!"
"I bet you buy your dinner here most nights?"
"I wouldn't dine anywhere else."
"We should have a drink!"
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on December 02, 2021, 05:17:52 AM
Imagine if he had scored. They’d have probably celebrated with the man city fans.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on December 02, 2021, 07:52:56 AM
Hmm. I'm beginning to think you're a soft touch, Paddy.

That has never been in doubt. Ask the waiters here who get 300 Peso tips, when 30 would be more appropriate.

I'm with you there. Every delivery driver to me gets £5 in addition to the delivery fee, and every waiter gets £10. Purely out of social awkwardness.

If you go into an empty shop, do you feel compelled to buy something? Asking for a friend.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 02, 2021, 08:19:58 AM
Imagine if he had scored. They’d have probably celebrated with the man city fans.
Surprised they were not selling half and half Greasy scarfs, they would have sold a ton to our star struck Greasers.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on December 02, 2021, 09:14:23 AM
I'm convinced they're the same folk that would've liked Doug, and claimed he spent a lot of 'his' money.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 02, 2021, 09:23:47 AM
Hmm. I'm beginning to think you're a soft touch, Paddy.

That has never been in doubt. Ask the waiters here who get 300 Peso tips, when 30 would be more appropriate.

I'm with you there. Every delivery driver to me gets £5 in addition to the delivery fee, and every waiter gets £10. Purely out of social awkwardness.

If you go into an empty shop, do you feel compelled to buy something? Asking for a friend.

What's a tip?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 02, 2021, 09:28:32 AM
Hmm. I'm beginning to think you're a soft touch, Paddy.

That has never been in doubt. Ask the waiters here who get 300 Peso tips, when 30 would be more appropriate.

I'm with you there. Every delivery driver to me gets £5 in addition to the delivery fee, and every waiter gets £10. Purely out of social awkwardness.

If you go into an empty shop, do you feel compelled to buy something? Asking for a friend.

What's a tip?

Where you take your rubbish.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on December 02, 2021, 10:00:52 AM
Hmm. I'm beginning to think you're a soft touch, Paddy.

That has never been in doubt. Ask the waiters here who get 300 Peso tips, when 30 would be more appropriate.

I'm with you there. Every delivery driver to me gets £5 in addition to the delivery fee, and every waiter gets £10. Purely out of social awkwardness.

If you go into an empty shop, do you feel compelled to buy something? Asking for a friend.

Every time.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on December 02, 2021, 10:50:18 AM

What's a tip?

It's a gratuity added on to a bill in a restaurant or pub, such as when you buy a round of drin...

I can see what the next question is going to be!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on December 02, 2021, 01:57:21 PM
Hmm. I'm beginning to think you're a soft touch, Paddy.

That has never been in doubt. Ask the waiters here who get 300 Peso tips, when 30 would be more appropriate.

I'm with you there. Every delivery driver to me gets £5 in addition to the delivery fee, and every waiter gets £10. Purely out of social awkwardness.

If you go into an empty shop, do you feel compelled to buy something? Asking for a friend.

What's a tip?

example:

Don't eat yellow snow.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on December 02, 2021, 02:17:01 PM
Obviously we have very little in common with the slime down the road but maybe the club thought that if it got really highly charged one of our morons would not be able to handle it and enter the pitch. So the "Remember what he did when here" messages was to try and diffuse a potentially damaging occurance for the club whilst being watched across the world.

And before anyone says our fans are not like that  - have a look at some of the pissed up scum that attends our away games - i would not put anything past some of them
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 02, 2021, 02:32:48 PM
Obviously we have very little in common with the slime down the road but maybe the club thought that if it got really highly charged one of our morons would not be able to handle it and enter the pitch. So the "Remember what he did when here" messages was to try and diffuse a potentially damaging occurance for the club whilst being watched across the world.

And before anyone says our fans are not like that  - have a look at some of the pissed up scum that attends our away games - i would not put anything past some of them

If that was the idea it had the opposite effect.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 02, 2021, 04:03:49 PM
Hmm. I'm beginning to think you're a soft touch, Paddy.

That has never been in doubt. Ask the waiters here who get 300 Peso tips, when 30 would be more appropriate.

I'm with you there. Every delivery driver to me gets £5 in addition to the delivery fee, and every waiter gets £10. Purely out of social awkwardness.

If you go into an empty shop, do you feel compelled to buy something? Asking for a friend.

Every time.

I don't, because I'm a hard-nosed bastard. Instead, to extend the Partridge/BP garage analogy, there's a scene where he walks in to see that Michael's not on shift and simply turns on his heels and mutters, "no. Not you, no thank you." That's kind of what I do in that scenario.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on December 02, 2021, 04:19:31 PM
Hmm. I'm beginning to think you're a soft touch, Paddy.

That has never been in doubt. Ask the waiters here who get 300 Peso tips, when 30 would be more appropriate.

I'm with you there. Every delivery driver to me gets £5 in addition to the delivery fee, and every waiter gets £10. Purely out of social awkwardness.

If you go into an empty shop, do you feel compelled to buy something? Asking for a friend.

Every time.

I don't, because I'm a hard-nosed bastard. Instead, to extend the Partridge/BP garage analogy, there's a scene where he walks in to see that Michael's not on shift and simply turns on his heels and mutters, "no. Not you, no thank you." That's kind of what I do in that scenario.

I know someone who pretends to receive a phone call in that situation. So rather than the potential awkwardness of walking past the shopkeeper empty-handed and sheepish, he storms out shouting, "where has this happened? I'll be there right away!"
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on December 02, 2021, 04:25:46 PM
3.  Transport to ground - build it and will happen.  Old Trafford is an example from when they expanded. 
I suppose the local council in Manchester had a club that was very successful, had put the city on the map, etc, and so they were willing to be accomodating.

Not wishing to run Villa down, but our last major trophy was a quarter of a century ago. Sadly.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on December 02, 2021, 06:14:38 PM
3.  Transport to ground - build it and will happen.  Old Trafford is an example from when they expanded. 
I suppose the local council in Manchester had a club that was very successful, had put the city on the map, etc, and so they were willing to be accomodating.

Not wishing to run Villa down, but our last major trophy was a quarter of a century ago. Sadly.

Eerrr……you forgetting the playoff trophy mate And under 23 FA Cup
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on December 02, 2021, 06:29:12 PM
Obviously we have very little in common with the slime down the road but maybe the club thought that if it got really highly charged one of our morons would not be able to handle it and enter the pitch. So the "Remember what he did when here" messages was to try and diffuse a potentially damaging occurance for the club whilst being watched across the world.

And before anyone says our fans are not like that  - have a look at some of the pissed up scum that attends our away games - i would not put anything past some of them

If that was the idea it had the opposite effect.

Really?

It split the crowd enough to not be a complete spewing of hatred to whip people up (remember the dog  shit here in 2003)

I think there were some minor issues with bad language but other than that nothing of note so I think it worked to a degree.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on December 02, 2021, 07:21:40 PM
3.  Transport to ground - build it and will happen.  Old Trafford is an example from when they expanded. 
I suppose the local council in Manchester had a club that was very successful, had put the city on the map, etc, and so they were willing to be accomodating.

Not wishing to run Villa down, but our last major trophy was a quarter of a century ago. Sadly.

Eerrr……you forgetting the playoff trophy mate And under 23 FA Cup
Annnnnyway, Like I said......

(Sorry guys, I really hate the fact we ain't won a trophy since 1996)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Beard82 on December 02, 2021, 07:31:11 PM
3.  Transport to ground - build it and will happen.  Old Trafford is an example from when they expanded. 
I suppose the local council in Manchester had a club that was very successful, had put the city on the map, etc, and so they were willing to be accomodating.

Not wishing to run Villa down, but our last major trophy was a quarter of a century ago. Sadly.

Eerrr……you forgetting the playoff trophy mate And under 23 FA Cup
Annnnnyway, Like I said......

(Sorry guys, I really hate the fact we ain't won a trophy since 1996)
Dont worry - its our year for the FA cup
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on December 02, 2021, 08:08:20 PM
3.  Transport to ground - build it and will happen.  Old Trafford is an example from when they expanded. 
I suppose the local council in Manchester had a club that was very successful, had put the city on the map, etc, and so they were willing to be accomodating.

Not wishing to run Villa down, but our last major trophy was a quarter of a century ago. Sadly.

Eerrr……you forgetting the playoff trophy mate And under 23 FA Cup
Annnnnyway, Like I said......

(Sorry guys, I really hate the fact we ain't won a trophy since 1996)
Dont worry - its our year for the FA cup
Oh good.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Pat Mustard on December 02, 2021, 08:37:52 PM
Large areas of seats together still for both fixtures. 
Totally agree with the pricing £55 with no concessions is an absolute disgrace. Come on Villa do the right thing and add concessions or put an offer on to pack the stadium out.

Karen would have put on Kids for a Quid wouldn’t she
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 02, 2021, 08:44:30 PM
3.  Transport to ground - build it and will happen.  Old Trafford is an example from when they expanded. 
I suppose the local council in Manchester had a club that was very successful, had put the city on the map, etc, and so they were willing to be accomodating.

Not wishing to run Villa down, but our last major trophy was a quarter of a century ago. Sadly.

Eerrr……you forgetting the playoff trophy mate And under 23 FA Cup
Annnnnyway, Like I said......

(Sorry guys, I really hate the fact we ain't won a trophy since 1996)

What about the Peace Cup?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on December 02, 2021, 09:17:05 PM
3.  Transport to ground - build it and will happen.  Old Trafford is an example from when they expanded. 
I suppose the local council in Manchester had a club that was very successful, had put the city on the map, etc, and so they were willing to be accomodating.

Not wishing to run Villa down, but our last major trophy was a quarter of a century ago. Sadly.

Eerrr……you forgetting the playoff trophy mate And under 23 FA Cup
Annnnnyway, Like I said......

(Sorry guys, I really hate the fact we ain't won a trophy since 1996)

What about the Peace Cup?
And the Intertoto Cup
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on December 02, 2021, 09:18:43 PM
What about all th fuc-kups we've won over the years?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on December 02, 2021, 09:58:58 PM
What about all th fuc-kups we've won over the years?

We’re serial winners of that one
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on December 03, 2021, 01:21:17 AM
3.  Transport to ground - build it and will happen.  Old Trafford is an example from when they expanded. 
I suppose the local council in Manchester had a club that was very successful, had put the city on the map, etc, and so they were willing to be accomodating.

Not wishing to run Villa down, but our last major trophy was a quarter of a century ago. Sadly.

Eerrr……you forgetting the playoff trophy mate And under 23 FA Cup
Annnnnyway, Like I said......

(Sorry guys, I really hate the fact we ain't won a trophy since 1996)

What about the Peace Cup?
And the Intertoto Cup

The losses to SHA and Bradford are the ones that irk me most. I'd love to win the FA Cup, but the League Cup is ours, and we should've won it in 2010, 2011 & 2013.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 03, 2021, 11:29:31 AM
3.  Transport to ground - build it and will happen.  Old Trafford is an example from when they expanded. 
I suppose the local council in Manchester had a club that was very successful, had put the city on the map, etc, and so they were willing to be accomodating.

Not wishing to run Villa down, but our last major trophy was a quarter of a century ago. Sadly.

Eerrr……you forgetting the playoff trophy mate And under 23 FA Cup
Annnnnyway, Like I said......

(Sorry guys, I really hate the fact we ain't won a trophy since 1996)

What about the Peace Cup?
And the Intertoto Cup

The losses to SHA and Bradford are the ones that irk me most. I'd love to win the FA Cup, but the League Cup is ours, and we should've won it in 2010, 2011 & 2013.

That Bradford match. Jesus Christ, that was there on a plate for us, but Lambert clearly had some sort of breakdown at half time and went bat shit for the second half playing 1-0-9
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on December 03, 2021, 11:32:50 AM
How he survived the sack after that and also after the previous month's triple Xmas whammy of 0-8/0-4/0-3 against Chelsea/Spurs and Wigan (!), I'll never know.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on December 03, 2021, 11:45:53 AM
Straight after the Bradford debacle we were dumped out of the cup at Millwall on a really miserable Friday night. Some real anti-Lambert outpouring in the Villa end after that shit show
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on December 03, 2021, 12:19:14 PM
Really one of those visionary managers Lambert. Brought Klopp's Gengenpressing ideas over to the UK before they became fashionable, but we just didn't understand them at the time and just thought he hadn't a clue.  :(
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on December 03, 2021, 01:26:53 PM
He was miles ahead of the game when it came to fucking about in your own box from a goal kick as well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on December 03, 2021, 01:31:09 PM
He'll always have the investments he made from our money, thanks for all you did Paul x
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 03, 2021, 01:45:17 PM
Did he ever mention he won the European Cup with Borussia Dortmund?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on December 03, 2021, 02:32:48 PM
Straight after the Bradford debacle we were dumped out of the cup at Millwall on a really miserable Friday night. Some real anti-Lambert outpouring in the Villa end after that shit show

That December/January was proof that Lerner didn’t give a toss any more. Quite why he carried on at that point is anybody’s guess.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brend'Watkins on December 03, 2021, 03:34:47 PM
Really one of those visionary managers Lambert. Brought Klopp's Gengenpressing ideas over to the UK before they became fashionable, but we just didn't understand them at the time and just thought he hadn't a clue.  :(
 

That's where he went wrong and they did as a result. He should have introduce them to Gegenpressing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on December 03, 2021, 03:39:52 PM
He was miles ahead of the game when it came to fucking about in your own box from a goal kick as well.

Exactly - you just watch and soon enough Gerrard will be all over the backwards goal kick.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on December 03, 2021, 03:57:41 PM
He was miles ahead of the game when it came to fucking about in your own box from a goal kick as well.

Exactly - you just watch and soon enough Gerrard will be all over the backwards goal kick.

Didn't we manage to put one out for a corner in the first half on Wednesday?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on December 03, 2021, 04:01:38 PM
Wasn't that from a Mings backpass, rather than a goal kick?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: exigo on December 03, 2021, 04:03:26 PM
Martinez gave it to Mings from a goal kick, who gave it back, and Martinez had no option but to play it out for a corner. Took me right back to the days of Guzan passing backwards from goal kicks towards the corner.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on December 03, 2021, 04:07:01 PM
That's the one.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 03, 2021, 04:15:33 PM
Said this before but my absolute favourite piece of useless pissing about with back passes at Villa was that time Richard Dunne, under absolutely no pressure - basically nobody in the same postcode as him - ten yards into our half, turned around and hit a back pass to Friedel which went behind for a corner, but was literally 6 feet from the corner flag, he'd hit it so badly.

I think it was that season when he came back from the summer the size of a pub.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 03, 2021, 05:30:17 PM
I seem to recall Curtis Davies making a clearance from the halfway line back over our own bar pretty much.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on December 03, 2021, 06:11:00 PM
I remember David Geddis playing the ball back to the goalkeeper from halfway into the opponent’s half
FA cup away at Ewood park a long time ago
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on December 03, 2021, 06:29:20 PM
Steve Sims used to regularly hoof the ball out of play, after which he would always quizzically examine his boot to see what had gone wrong. A lot of the time he hoofed it out was when he was taking a free kick deep inside his own half.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on December 03, 2021, 07:45:03 PM
I seem to recall Curtis Davies making a clearance from the halfway line back over our own bar pretty much.

Remember Habib Beye putting the ball out of play for no particular reason and Rapid Vienna scoring from the resulting corner.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Exeter 77 on December 03, 2021, 08:03:03 PM
I remember David Geddis playing the ball back to the goalkeeper from halfway into the opponent’s half
FA cup away at Ewood park a long time ago
4th round January 1980 I would guess.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on December 03, 2021, 08:13:10 PM
I remember David Geddis playing the ball back to the goalkeeper from halfway into the opponent’s half
FA cup away at Ewood park a long time ago
4th round January 1980 I would guess.

Sounds about right
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 03, 2021, 08:17:19 PM
I seem to recall Curtis Davies making a clearance from the halfway line back over our own bar pretty much.

Remember Habib Beye putting the ball out of play for no particular reason and Rapid Vienna scoring from the resulting corner.

I think that's the one I am recalling, got the wrong player though!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 03, 2021, 08:18:24 PM
I seem to recall Curtis Davies making a clearance from the halfway line back over our own bar pretty much.

Remember Habib Beye putting the ball out of play for no particular reason and Rapid Vienna scoring from the resulting corner.

It must have been more of a shock to see Habib Beye actually playing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on December 03, 2021, 08:42:31 PM
I seem to recall Curtis Davies making a clearance from the halfway line back over our own bar pretty much.

Remember Habib Beye putting the ball out of play for no particular reason and Rapid Vienna scoring from the resulting corner.

I think that's the one I am recalling, got the wrong player though!

I think I remember that. I was sat in the Upper North for some reason and it was really quiet - until that 'clearance', at which point a bloke a couple of rows in front let out the most theatrical "FUH-KIN-ELL" I've ever heard.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on December 03, 2021, 09:08:14 PM
Think he was playing at left back for some reason
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on December 03, 2021, 09:10:25 PM
I remember David Geddis playing the ball back to the goalkeeper from halfway into the opponent’s half
FA cup away at Ewood park a long time ago
4th round January 1980 I would guess.

Sounds about right

Bloody hell I was 18
Not realising the next two years we’re going to be the best ever supporting the Villa
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 03, 2021, 09:59:05 PM
Think he was playing at left back for some reason

Ah yes, the MON 'left back at right back, right back at left back' thing.

The Luke Young Conundrum.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on December 04, 2021, 12:48:28 AM
Or Carlos "Spanish football's golden age but I've got two left feet" Cuellar filling-in at RB.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on December 04, 2021, 08:46:28 AM
David Platt went through a period of making ever more elaborate back passes to his keeper, I recall him juggling the ball a few times before volleying it 30 yards back, he looked rather more impressed with himself than a bemused Holte End did.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TelfordVilla on December 04, 2021, 09:19:33 AM
It seems this thread has wandered way off track.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Richard E on December 04, 2021, 09:22:28 AM
It’s one of the unwritten laws of football that if you concede an unnecessary corner the opposition inevitably score from it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on December 04, 2021, 09:29:38 AM
David Platt went through a period of making ever more elaborate back passes to his keeper, I recall him juggling the ball a few times before volleying it 30 yards back, he looked rather more impressed with himself than a bemused Holte End did.

I remember a glorious, full length diving header from the edge of the box back to Spink, when we were 4-0 down at Leeds in the League Cup.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on December 04, 2021, 10:54:45 AM
David Platt went through a period of making ever more elaborate back passes to his keeper, I recall him juggling the ball a few times before volleying it 30 yards back, he looked rather more impressed with himself than a bemused Holte End did.

Yes, I remember how much effort he used to put into his back passes. And he did always seem pleased with himself as well. Was still often met with a smattering of applause, then again as the other night showed, some people will clap any old shite.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 04, 2021, 11:28:15 AM
I seem to recall Curtis Davies making a clearance from the halfway line back over our own bar pretty much.

I have a feeling that was the home leg against Rapid Vienna.  Another dreadful game in Europe under MO’N.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 04, 2021, 02:44:05 PM
David Platt went through a period of making ever more elaborate back passes to his keeper, I recall him juggling the ball a few times before volleying it 30 yards back, he looked rather more impressed with himself than a bemused Holte End did.

Yes, I remember how much effort he used to put into his back passes. And he did always seem pleased with himself as well. Was still often met with a smattering of applause, then again as the other night showed, some people will clap any old shite.


I'd forgotten that people used to clap back passes. What the fuck?!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on December 04, 2021, 02:48:14 PM
It seems this thread has wandered way off track.

Yeah it’s brilliant though isn’t it
Some of the individual memories of non-descript things that stay in the mind
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on December 04, 2021, 03:34:55 PM
The one that sticks in my mind was Curtis Davies going to head the ball with nobody else anywhere near, and missing it completely by about three feet. Against Wigan perhaps?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on December 04, 2021, 03:53:00 PM
David Platt went through a period of making ever more elaborate back passes to his keeper, I recall him juggling the ball a few times before volleying it 30 yards back, he looked rather more impressed with himself than a bemused Holte End did.

Yes, I remember how much effort he used to put into his back passes. And he did always seem pleased with himself as well. Was still often met with a smattering of applause, then again as the other night showed, some people will clap any old shite.

Yes, Platt definitely got big headed and I too recall too many elaborate back passes to Spink. Luckily Platt didn't have to answer to Les Sealey because Sealey would have ripped his head off and spat in the hole.  ;D
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on December 05, 2021, 10:06:01 PM
Andy Street was at the match tonight, I imagine there has been a lot of talk between Andy and Purslow regarding the Public Transport issue
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TonyD on December 05, 2021, 10:11:52 PM
Andy Street was at the match tonight, I imagine there has been a lot of talk between Andy and Purslow regarding the Public Transport issue
Who is Andy Street ? 
Can he put us on the right road?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on December 05, 2021, 10:14:34 PM
Andy Street was at the match tonight, I imagine there has been a lot of talk between Andy and Purslow regarding the Public Transport issue

I hope that fucker was on the train home, if he’s made it onto the platform yet.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 05, 2021, 10:23:58 PM
All I can say is it's a disgrace we haven't sold out for our next home match, whenever it is and whoever it is against.

We should be ashamed of ourselves.

350,000 on the season ticket waiting list?

YOU'RE HAVING A LAUGH.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on December 05, 2021, 10:47:09 PM
All I can say is it's a disgrace we haven't sold out for our next home match, whenever it is and whoever it is against.

We should be ashamed of ourselves.

350,000 on the season ticket waiting list?

YOU'RE HAVING A LAUGH.

I've heard we haven't sold a single season ticket for next season.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on December 05, 2021, 10:53:35 PM
Hundreds left for Burnley , hitting General Sale tomorrow. Let's hope the 20,000 like Saturday 3pm games
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan For Life on December 05, 2021, 11:01:32 PM
Hundreds left for Burnley , hitting General Sale tomorrow. Let's hope the 20,000 like Saturday 3pm games

Oh hello
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 05, 2021, 11:03:29 PM
Imagine being the second best team in your own stadium, playing in front of only a few thousand and then coming on here week after week to talk about da Villa and their attendances.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on December 06, 2021, 05:30:44 PM
TICKET UPDATE

Just 28 seats left for the Burnley Fixture which made it to GENERAL SALE (With NO Booking History) with more reasonable prices it looks like we are on for a Sell Out. Hopefully the Club will reflect on the absolutely ridiculous pricing for our recent 2 fixtures that were also Televised and ensure we have a packed Villa Park for the rest of the Season. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on December 06, 2021, 07:28:02 PM
Two televised fixtures at 41,500? Yeah, huge issues, you balloon.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on December 06, 2021, 07:32:31 PM
He’s got a point about pricing
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on December 06, 2021, 08:03:33 PM
TICKET UPDATE

Just 28 seats left for the Burnley Fixture which made it to GENERAL SALE (With NO Booking History) with more reasonable prices it looks like we are on for a Sell Out. Hopefully the Club will reflect on the absolutely ridiculous pricing for our recent 2 fixtures that were also Televised and ensure we have a packed Villa Park for the rest of the Season. 

Fucking disgrace.  28 tickets?  It's absolutely disgusting that, even when we are on the telly and we charge full ticket prices that we still manage to sell out.  DISFUCKINGSGUTING.  NWSE OUT!! Ezri Konsa is a fat pig.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on December 06, 2021, 08:28:21 PM
Just giving a Ticket Update and pointing out some facts.


Don't need people calling me a 'Balloon' for sharing my sincere opinions on Issues at the Football Club

It's about time you shown a little respect for Flin5tone . I have contributed over 500 posts now most full of information that i'm sure most of the less hostile members enjoy to read .

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on December 06, 2021, 08:33:43 PM
Just giving a Ticket Update and pointing out some facts.


Don't need people calling me a 'Balloon' for sharing my sincere opinions on Issues at the Football Club

It's about time you shown a little respect for Flin5tone . I have contributed over 500 posts now most full of information that i'm sure most of the less hostile members enjoy to read .





what about the blue nose stuff  ? that must hurt?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Zouch Villa on December 06, 2021, 08:37:50 PM
I can confirm that Zouch Villa really doesn’t enjoy reading one man’s obsession with ticket sales.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on December 06, 2021, 08:39:04 PM
I can confirm that Zouch Villa really doesn’t enjoy reading one man’s obsession with ticket sales.

Rory isn't too bothered by it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on December 06, 2021, 08:47:06 PM
Just giving a Ticket Update and pointing out some facts.


Don't need people calling me a 'Balloon' for sharing my sincere opinions on Issues at the Football Club

It's about time you shown a little respect for Flin5tone . I have contributed over 500 posts now most full of information that i'm sure most of the less hostile members enjoy to read .



You're a troll on a tedious wind up. Outted a couple of times as a bullshit merchant when you couldn't keep your lies straight.

Fuck knows whether you're a sad Blue Nose or a sad Villa fan, eitherway there is a common denominator. Adding third person to the mix is a cherry on the cake.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on December 06, 2021, 08:51:12 PM
Just giving a Ticket Update and pointing out some facts.


Don't need people calling me a 'Balloon' for sharing my sincere opinions on Issues at the Football Club

It's about time you shown a little respect for Flin5tone . I have contributed over 500 posts now most full of information that i'm sure most of the less hostile members enjoy to read .



To be honest, it's not quite up there with his 'multi storey car park behind the Holte' post but it's not far off.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Goldenballs on December 06, 2021, 09:01:47 PM
I've been to all but 1 of our home games, but the Burnley one is too close to Xmas with a lot of stuff going on. I imagine I'm not the only person in that position.

I'm not surprised it didn't sell out instantly.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on December 06, 2021, 09:03:29 PM
He’s got a point about pricing

He would if we hadn't essentially sold both those games out.

Like it or not, the club will charge what people are willing to pay, and a near-as-dammit sell out suggests people are willing to pay a lot.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Flin5tone on December 06, 2021, 09:32:55 PM
Just giving a Ticket Update and pointing out some facts.


Don't need people calling me a 'Balloon' for sharing my sincere opinions on Issues at the Football Club

It's about time you shown a little respect for Flin5tone . I have contributed over 500 posts now most full of information that i'm sure most of the less hostile members enjoy to read .



To be honest, it's not quite up there with his 'multi storey car park behind the Holte' post but it's not far off.

what was wrong with suggesting a multi storey car park at EITHER END of the stadium as a solution for the Transport problem? many top European Clubs have such facility .
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 06, 2021, 09:36:35 PM
I’m surprised you haven’t suggested shutting two of the stands, pissing in a corner to dispel a gypsy curse and renaming one of the boxes The Jasper Carrott suite just so you’ll feel more at home.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan For Life on December 06, 2021, 10:07:08 PM
I’m surprised you haven’t suggested shutting two of the stands, pissing in a corner to dispel a gypsy curse and renaming one of the boxes The Jasper Carrott suite just so you’ll feel more at home.
[/quot
I’m surprised you haven’t suggested shutting two of the stands, pissing in a corner to dispel a gypsy curse and renaming one of the boxes The Jasper Carrott suite just so you’ll feel more at home.

And hairdresser owners
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 06, 2021, 10:21:43 PM
Just giving a Ticket Update and pointing out some facts.


Don't need people calling me a 'Balloon' for sharing my sincere opinions on Issues at the Football Club

It's about time you shown a little respect for Flin5tone . I have contributed over 500 posts now most full of information that i'm sure most of the less hostile members enjoy to read .



To be honest, it's not quite up there with his 'multi storey car park behind the Holte' post but it's not far off.

what was wrong with suggesting a multi storey car park at EITHER END of the stadium as a solution for the Transport problem? many top European Clubs have such facility .

Because for one there isn't the space and for another we have planning consent to contend with.

 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on December 06, 2021, 10:35:30 PM
what was wrong with suggesting a multi storey car park at EITHER END of the stadium as a solution for the Transport problem? many top European Clubs have such facility .
Sorry but how does a car park provides a solution for transport to and from the ground?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on December 06, 2021, 10:39:49 PM
what was wrong with suggesting a multi storey car park at EITHER END of the stadium as a solution for the Transport problem? many top European Clubs have such facility .
Sorry but how does a car park provides a solution for transport to and from the ground?

Both car parks will have zipwires directly to New St and the M6.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on December 06, 2021, 10:43:54 PM
If people could park their cars in a multi storey car park next to the round, would it encourage enough fans to buy match tickets?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on December 06, 2021, 10:47:01 PM
We need to encourages some sort of park and ride in the surrounding area with frequent shuttles back and forth to the ground , think Disney 😉
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on December 07, 2021, 12:03:15 AM
Just giving a Ticket Update and pointing out some facts.


Don't need people calling me a 'Balloon' for sharing my sincere opinions on Issues at the Football Club

It's about time you shown a little respect for Flin5tone .

I wish I had the confidence to refer to myself in the third person.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on December 07, 2021, 01:00:51 AM
Just giving a Ticket Update and pointing out some facts.


Don't need people calling me a 'Balloon' for sharing my sincere opinions on Issues at the Football Club

It's about time you shown a little respect for Flin5tone .

I wish I had the confidence to refer to myself in the third person.

I think you mean 'Percy wishes Percy had the confidence to refer to Percy in the third person'.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on December 07, 2021, 01:56:16 AM
Just giving a Ticket Update and pointing out some facts.


Don't need people calling me a 'Balloon' for sharing my sincere opinions on Issues at the Football Club

It's about time you shown a little respect for Flin5tone .

I wish I had the confidence to refer to myself in the third person.

I think you mean 'Percy wishes Percy had the confidence to refer to Percy in the third person'.

Yeah. I answered before I read the subsequent posts.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hillbilly on December 07, 2021, 04:30:40 AM
Just giving a Ticket Update and pointing out some facts.


Don't need people calling me a 'Balloon' for sharing my sincere opinions on Issues at the Football Club

It's about time you shown a little respect for Flin5tone . I have contributed over 500 posts now most full of information that i'm sure most of the less hostile members enjoy to read .



To be honest, it's not quite up there with his 'multi storey car park behind the Holte' post but it's not far off.

what was wrong with suggesting a multi storey car park at EITHER END of the stadium as a solution for the Transport problem? many top European Clubs have such facility .
Induced demand, dear boy. Induced demand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dave P on December 07, 2021, 07:21:34 AM
Jesus wept, imagine trying to get off a multi story car park after the game?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on December 07, 2021, 07:36:23 AM
Could we build an elaborate maze out of the exits? Some people would get lost in the maze, which'd mean rather than everyone coming out at the same time, they'd make their way out in dribs & drabs so transport wouldn't be such a problem.

Season ticket holders would learn the way out after a while, giving them a special 'perk' that they'd get home first.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on December 07, 2021, 08:04:11 AM
He’s got a point about pricing

He would if we hadn't essentially sold both those games out.

Like it or not, the club will charge what people are willing to pay, and a near-as-dammit sell out suggests people are willing to pay a lot.

I think charging £50+ for certain home games is naughty. I suppose one argument is that people are willing to pay it but another one is that the club are taking the piss a bit, cashing in on “customer” loyalty.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on December 07, 2021, 08:09:48 AM
He’s got a point about pricing

He would if we hadn't essentially sold both those games out.

Like it or not, the club will charge what people are willing to pay, and a near-as-dammit sell out suggests people are willing to pay a lot.

I think charging £50+ for certain home games is naughty. I suppose one argument is that people are willing to pay it but another one is that the club are taking the piss a bit, cashing in on “customer” loyalty.

Of course they are. Just like every other club.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on December 07, 2021, 08:14:19 AM
Just giving a Ticket Update and pointing out some facts.


Don't need people calling me a 'Balloon' for sharing my sincere opinions on Issues at the Football Club

It's about time you shown a little respect for Flin5tone . I have contributed over 500 posts now most full of information that i'm sure most of the less hostile members enjoy to read .



To be honest, it's not quite up there with his 'multi storey car park behind the Holte' post but it's not far off.

what was wrong with suggesting a multi storey car park at EITHER END of the stadium as a solution for the Transport problem? many top European Clubs have such facility .

Because for one there isn't the space and for another we have planning consent to contend with.

 

I think there's plenty of space behind the Holte. The car park itself might only be able to hold about 12 cars but it would help.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on December 07, 2021, 08:17:21 AM
We need to encourages some sort of park and ride in the surrounding area with frequent shuttles back and forth to the ground , think Disney 😉
Wouldn't that make us look like a bit of a Mickey Mouse club though?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on December 07, 2021, 09:03:45 AM
Monorail is the answer.  Buy some land a mile or so away for parking. Try and get the old Maglev from Birmingham airport. No congestion because it's above the road obv.. Failing that, buy and adapt one of the old rollercoasters from The American Adventure themepark.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on December 07, 2021, 09:07:54 AM
Monorail is the answer.  Buy some land a mile or so away for parking. Try and get the old Maglev from Birmingham airport. No congestion because it's above the road obv.. Failing that, buy and adapt one of the old rollercoasters from The American Adventure themepark.

I agree, and anyone that doesn't is from Shelbyville.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on December 07, 2021, 09:10:09 AM
Monorail is the answer.  Buy some land a mile or so away for parking. Try and get the old Maglev from Birmingham airport. No congestion because it's above the road obv.. Failing that, buy and adapt one of the old rollercoasters from The American Adventure themepark.
I heard there's some waste ground in the Bordesley area.  Was an old football ground once, but it's mostly fallen down now.  We could bulldoze that and use it as a carpark.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on December 07, 2021, 09:15:11 AM
Monorail is the answer.  Buy some land a mile or so away for parking. Try and get the old Maglev from Birmingham airport. No congestion because it's above the road obv.. Failing that, buy and adapt one of the old rollercoasters from The American Adventure themepark.
I heard there's some waste ground in the Bordesley area.  Was an old football ground once, but it's mostly fallen down now.  We could bulldoze that and use it as a carpark.

I heard it was cursed, by Gypsy Rose McCormack, and if they ever build a multi-story car park on it the gates will keep getting stuck.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on December 07, 2021, 09:19:59 AM
We sold all the local land we had for car parking didn't we?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on December 07, 2021, 09:24:29 AM
Monorail is the answer.  Buy some land a mile or so away for parking. Try and get the old Maglev from Birmingham airport. No congestion because it's above the road obv.. Failing that, buy and adapt one of the old rollercoasters from The American Adventure themepark.

I agree, and anyone that doesn't is from Shelbyville.

Actually come up with a better idea now. Think i'm having one of those Tesla moments of inspiration this morning where the ideas just flood out. Monorail has to be pretty substantial and costly right? What about a cable car? Still keeps traffic away from the roads and works fine at Drayton Manor

(https://coasterpedia.net/w/images/thumb/a/a8/Cablecars_(Drayton_Manor)_2010_01.jpg/1000px-Cablecars_(Drayton_Manor)_2010_01.jpg)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on December 07, 2021, 09:39:31 AM
Monorail is the answer.  Buy some land a mile or so away for parking. Try and get the old Maglev from Birmingham airport. No congestion because it's above the road obv.. Failing that, buy and adapt one of the old rollercoasters from The American Adventure themepark.
I heard there's some waste ground in the Bordesley area.  Was an old football ground once, but it's mostly fallen down now.  We could bulldoze that and use it as a carpark.


Nice idea, but its pretty congested there at the best of times. Also to get to Aston the monorail would have to cross a lot of roads and railways lines at the same level so a lot of extra cost. You'd want the monorail or cable car coming in the less congested way avoiding major roads. Probably Northish towards Witton and Perry Park not fair from the Wibbly Wobbly world of play
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on December 07, 2021, 09:41:54 AM
Monorail is the answer.  Buy some land a mile or so away for parking. Try and get the old Maglev from Birmingham airport. No congestion because it's above the road obv.. Failing that, buy and adapt one of the old rollercoasters from The American Adventure themepark.

I agree, and anyone that doesn't is from Shelbyville.

Actually come up with a better idea now. Think i'm having one of those Tesla moments of inspiration this morning where the ideas just flood out. Monorail has to be pretty substantial and costly right? What about a cable car? Still keeps traffic away from the roads and works fine at Drayton Manor

(https://coasterpedia.net/w/images/thumb/a/a8/Cablecars_(Drayton_Manor)_2010_01.jpg/1000px-Cablecars_(Drayton_Manor)_2010_01.jpg)
Why not they've built one across the Thames 😁
Or how about we extend the canal from down by the Swan and Mitre and have a fleet of Hovercraft.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on December 07, 2021, 09:44:16 AM
Indeed. That's what gave me the idea.  The thames one has a capacity of 2,500 people per hour or 30 buses!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on December 07, 2021, 09:53:11 AM
Monorail is the answer.  Buy some land a mile or so away for parking. Try and get the old Maglev from Birmingham airport. No congestion because it's above the road obv.. Failing that, buy and adapt one of the old rollercoasters from The American Adventure themepark.
I heard there's some waste ground in the Bordesley area.  Was an old football ground once, but it's mostly fallen down now.  We could bulldoze that and use it as a carpark.

I heard it was cursed, by Gypsy Rose McCormack, and if they ever build a multi-story car park on it the gates will keep getting stuck.
It would be contaminated land and we would have give it at least 50 years before we could use it. Bit like re-using an old sewage works.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on December 07, 2021, 10:06:57 AM
Indeed. That's what gave me the idea.  The thames one has a capacity of 2,500 people per hour or 30 buses!

I drive under that great white elephant a few times a week and I’ve never seen anyone using it. One of Mayor Johnson’s lunatic vanity projects.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on December 07, 2021, 10:07:53 AM
Indeed. That's what gave me the idea.  The thames one has a capacity of 2,500 people per hour or 30 buses!

I can think of better uses of public or private money than building a fucking cable car to get people to Villa Park.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on December 07, 2021, 10:11:00 AM
Indeed. That's what gave me the idea.  The thames one has a capacity of 2,500 people per hour or 30 buses!

I drive under that great white elephant a few times a week and I’ve never seen anyone using it. One of Mayor Johnson’s lunatic vanity projects.

Would be a major attraction here I reckon and generate higher attendances. Away fans would love it, Green as well so would have Birmingham council salivating. Call it the Purslow skylift and i'm sure the club would be interested.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on December 07, 2021, 10:13:38 AM
Indeed. That's what gave me the idea.  The thames one has a capacity of 2,500 people per hour or 30 buses!

I can think of better uses of public or private money than building a fucking cable car to get people to Villa Park.

Cost 60m in the most expensive city in the world. How much would the other options cost?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on December 07, 2021, 10:15:03 AM
Maybe we could have “football special” cable cars - old rolling stock for the away fans to smash up. That way it might be cheaper than the £60m it cost to build the London one.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on December 07, 2021, 11:22:01 AM
Indeed. That's what gave me the idea.  The thames one has a capacity of 2,500 people per hour or 30 buses!

I can think of better uses of public or private money than building a fucking cable car to get people to Villa Park.

Cost 60m in the most expensive city in the world. How much would the other options cost?

60m pays for more buses and trains not a bloody antiquated method of transport that’s good for people who want to get up mountains and hills, not so good when you’re trying to transport as many people as possible in short time frames across distance.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on December 07, 2021, 11:26:14 AM
Indeed. That's what gave me the idea.  The thames one has a capacity of 2,500 people per hour or 30 buses!

I can think of better uses of public or private money than building a fucking cable car to get people to Villa Park.

Cost 60m in the most expensive city in the world. How much would the other options cost?

60m pays for more buses and trains not a bloody antiquated method of transport that’s good for people who want to get up mountains and hills, not so good when you’re trying to transport as many people as possible in short time frames across distance.

More buses = more congestion. Cable car dumping 2500 per hour into Aston, 30 less busses or 833 less cars (based on 3 per car). Also the train operators don't have loads of spare capacity knocking around like in the BR days or the track capacity because they rationalised it. Those extra carriages or trains will cost money and re-instating the infrastructure costs will probably dwarf 60m
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Duncan Shaw on December 07, 2021, 11:26:39 AM
Indeed. That's what gave me the idea.  The thames one has a capacity of 2,500 people per hour or 30 buses!

I drive under that great white elephant a few times a week and I’ve never seen anyone using it. One of Mayor Johnson’s lunatic vanity projects.

Would be a major attraction here I reckon and generate higher attendances. Away fans would love it, Green as well so would have Birmingham council salivating. Call it the Purslow skylift and i'm sure the club would be interested.

Ooh if it became a major attraction, it might help us sell out a few more games - win win!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on December 07, 2021, 11:31:22 AM
Indeed. That's what gave me the idea.  The thames one has a capacity of 2,500 people per hour or 30 buses!

I drive under that great white elephant a few times a week and I’ve never seen anyone using it. One of Mayor Johnson’s lunatic vanity projects.

Would be a major attraction here I reckon and generate higher attendances. Away fans would love it, Green as well so would have Birmingham council salivating. Call it the Purslow skylift and i'm sure the club would be interested.

Ooh if it became a major attraction, it might help us sell out a few more games - win win!!
Such a good point.  Our attendances have been a DISGRACE lately (Man City, Leicester City), and that can only be rectified by offering 'kids for a quid' on the Purslow Skylift.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on December 07, 2021, 11:33:20 AM
Indeed. That's what gave me the idea.  The thames one has a capacity of 2,500 people per hour or 30 buses!

I drive under that great white elephant a few times a week and I’ve never seen anyone using it. One of Mayor Johnson’s lunatic vanity projects.

Would be a major attraction here I reckon and generate higher attendances. Away fans would love it, Green as well so would have Birmingham council salivating. Call it the Purslow skylift and i'm sure the club would be interested.

Ooh if it became a major attraction, it might help us sell out a few more games - win win!!

Aye, a scenic ride about the delights of Aston before/after a game looking down on all the people stuck in their cars and buses. I would. I best Flinstone would as well ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Smith on December 07, 2021, 11:37:38 AM
Indeed. That's what gave me the idea.  The thames one has a capacity of 2,500 people per hour or 30 buses!

I can think of better uses of public or private money than building a fucking cable car to get people to Villa Park.

Cost 60m in the most expensive city in the world. How much would the other options cost?


60m pays for more buses and trains not a bloody antiquated method of transport that’s good for people who want to get up mountains and hills, not so good when you’re trying to transport as many people as possible in short time frames across distance.

More buses = more congestion. Cable car dumping 2500 per hour into Aston, 30 less busses or 833 less cars (based on 3 per car). Also the train operators don't have loads of spare capacity knocking around like in the BR days or the track capacity because they rationalised it. Those extra carriages or trains will cost money and re-instating the infrastructure costs will probably dwarf 60m

Nobody is going to invest that kind of money for something used 20 times a year.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 07, 2021, 11:42:30 AM
Just giving a Ticket Update and pointing out some facts.


Don't need people calling me a 'Balloon' for sharing my sincere opinions on Issues at the Football Club

It's about time you shown a little respect for Flin5tone .

I wish I had the confidence to refer to myself in the third person.

I think it's appropriate for him to use the 'third person' to refer to himself but then being Irish I have a tendency to drop my h's.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on December 07, 2021, 11:46:06 AM
Indeed. That's what gave me the idea.  The thames one has a capacity of 2,500 people per hour or 30 buses!

I can think of better uses of public or private money than building a fucking cable car to get people to Villa Park.

Cost 60m in the most expensive city in the world. How much would the other options cost?


60m pays for more buses and trains not a bloody antiquated method of transport that’s good for people who want to get up mountains and hills, not so good when you’re trying to transport as many people as possible in short time frames across distance.

More buses = more congestion. Cable car dumping 2500 per hour into Aston, 30 less busses or 833 less cars (based on 3 per car). Also the train operators don't have loads of spare capacity knocking around like in the BR days or the track capacity because they rationalised it. Those extra carriages or trains will cost money and re-instating the infrastructure costs will probably dwarf 60m

Nobody is going to invest that kind of money for something used 20 times a year.

But they will for buses and trains? The train operators don't own these trains - they have the trains they need for their services. Are they really going to lease another 4 trains and employ extra drivers for 20 trips per year? Same with the buses.  Plus people will use it anyway as a tourist thing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on December 07, 2021, 11:47:40 AM
What if everyone had one of those electronic scooters? OK, it would be a bit of a bastard trying to find yours after the game and the odd scuffle might break out but we'd all get home quicker.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Smith on December 07, 2021, 12:07:36 PM
Indeed. That's what gave me the idea.  The thames one has a capacity of 2,500 people per hour or 30 buses!

I can think of better uses of public or private money than building a fucking cable car to get people to Villa Park.

Cost 60m in the most expensive city in the world. How much would the other options cost?


60m pays for more buses and trains not a bloody antiquated method of transport that’s good for people who want to get up mountains and hills, not so good when you’re trying to transport as many people as possible in short time frames across distance.

More buses = more congestion. Cable car dumping 2500 per hour into Aston, 30 less busses or 833 less cars (based on 3 per car). Also the train operators don't have loads of spare capacity knocking around like in the BR days or the track capacity because they rationalised it. Those extra carriages or trains will cost money and re-instating the infrastructure costs will probably dwarf 60m

Nobody is going to invest that kind of money for something used 20 times a year.

But they will for buses and trains? The train operators don't own these trains - they have the trains they need for their services. Are they really going to lease another 4 trains and employ extra drivers for 20 trips per year? Same with the buses.  Plus people will use it anyway as a tourist thing.

Oh yes, that thriving tourist hotspot of Aston. It would also take years to build and cause additional disruption during the construction.

The infrastructure is already there for the trains and buses, it just needs some joined up thinking to make better use of them.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on December 07, 2021, 12:16:32 PM
Indeed. That's what gave me the idea.  The thames one has a capacity of 2,500 people per hour or 30 buses!

I can think of better uses of public or private money than building a fucking cable car to get people to Villa Park.

Cost 60m in the most expensive city in the world. How much would the other options cost?


60m pays for more buses and trains not a bloody antiquated method of transport that’s good for people who want to get up mountains and hills, not so good when you’re trying to transport as many people as possible in short time frames across distance.

More buses = more congestion. Cable car dumping 2500 per hour into Aston, 30 less busses or 833 less cars (based on 3 per car). Also the train operators don't have loads of spare capacity knocking around like in the BR days or the track capacity because they rationalised it. Those extra carriages or trains will cost money and re-instating the infrastructure costs will probably dwarf 60m

Nobody is going to invest that kind of money for something used 20 times a year.

But they will for buses and trains? The train operators don't own these trains - they have the trains they need for their services. Are they really going to lease another 4 trains and employ extra drivers for 20 trips per year? Same with the buses.  Plus people will use it anyway as a tourist thing.

Oh yes, that thriving tourist hotspot of Aston. It would also take years to build and cause additional disruption during the construction.

The infrastructure is already there for the trains and buses, it just needs some joined up thinking to make better use of them.

Nah its literally not. In the old days if BR wanted to run an extra train they'd get a  loco not being used (GONE) and stick on some carriages not being used (GONE), and they'd have the track and infrastructure (loops, sidings, signalling platforms- GONE) to queue the extra trains up.

Now its a modular railway. All the trains are permanently joined so no spare carriages, they don't keep spares if they break down (cancelled trains anyone), the track and signalling is designed to meet the services, no empty platforms, loops to wait in etc.. Looking at miles more than 60m to put all that back in for 20 trips per year. If it was that cheap 'n easy they'd have done it years ago
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on December 07, 2021, 12:20:04 PM
Indeed. That's what gave me the idea.  The thames one has a capacity of 2,500 people per hour or 30 buses!

I can think of better uses of public or private money than building a fucking cable car to get people to Villa Park.

Cost 60m in the most expensive city in the world. How much would the other options cost?


60m pays for more buses and trains not a bloody antiquated method of transport that’s good for people who want to get up mountains and hills, not so good when you’re trying to transport as many people as possible in short time frames across distance.

More buses = more congestion. Cable car dumping 2500 per hour into Aston, 30 less busses or 833 less cars (based on 3 per car). Also the train operators don't have loads of spare capacity knocking around like in the BR days or the track capacity because they rationalised it. Those extra carriages or trains will cost money and re-instating the infrastructure costs will probably dwarf 60m

Nobody is going to invest that kind of money for something used 20 times a year.

But they will for buses and trains? The train operators don't own these trains - they have the trains they need for their services. Are they really going to lease another 4 trains and employ extra drivers for 20 trips per year? Same with the buses.  Plus people will use it anyway as a tourist thing.

Oh yes, that thriving tourist hotspot of Aston. It would also take years to build and cause additional disruption during the construction.

The infrastructure is already there for the trains and buses, it just needs some joined up thinking to make better use of them.
What if we made it follow the Birmingham & Fazeley canal for a bit, like the Wuppertal monorail?  I reckon you could probably turn that into a Peaky Blinders themed section, which'd help on the tourist side of things

(https://dailygeekshow.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/wuppertaler-schwebebahn-wuppertal.jpg)

EDIT: Just read this after posting.  Just for clarity, the Wuppertal monorail doesn't follow the Birmingham & Fazeley canal, because the monorail's in Germany and that canal isn't.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Pat Mustard on December 07, 2021, 12:28:41 PM
All this talk of monorails and cable cars is just ridiculous.  There is only one sensible solution as far as I can see - use the canals to accommodate a fleet of hovercraft.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: gpbarr on December 07, 2021, 12:31:40 PM
Realistically if they are actually serious about increasing capacity, they will likely (and sadly) have to look away from Villa Park. The transport inflexibility is a huge problem that won’t be solved by hair brained ideas like cable cars.  It’s a beautiful shrine to football in the middle of a housing estate with as bad transport links as any in the professional game.

Everton had the same problem - as did Arsenal. Something will have to give in the end.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 07, 2021, 12:35:33 PM
Realistically if they are actually serious about increasing capacity, they will likely (and sadly) have to look away from Villa Park. The transport inflexibility is a huge problem that won’t be solved by hair brained ideas like cable cars.  It’s a beautiful shrine to football in the middle of a housing estate with as bad transport links as any in the professional game.

Everton had the same problem - as did Arsenal. Something will have to give in the end.

I'm starting to think that's the only alternative. I doubt Messrs McGregor and Ramsay would have let sentiment stand in the way of progress.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on December 07, 2021, 12:41:40 PM
All this talk of monorails and cable cars is just ridiculous.  There is only one sensible solution as far as I can see - use the canals to accommodate a fleet of hovercraft.

What if your hovercraft was full of eels?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on December 07, 2021, 12:44:44 PM
All this talk of monorails and cable cars is just ridiculous.  There is only one sensible solution as far as I can see - use the canals to accommodate a fleet of hovercraft.
Damn it I wrote that out earlier and forgot to press send. But my idea included a canal extention to Villa Park from the Swan & Mitre. Great minds think alike eh Pat?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on December 07, 2021, 12:47:06 PM
All this talk of monorails and cable cars is just ridiculous.  There is only one sensible solution as far as I can see - use the canals to accommodate a fleet of hovercraft.

What if your hovercraft was full of eels?
You could fry them up and sell them of. Better than some of the burgers you get around Villa Park.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 07, 2021, 12:52:41 PM
Given that the pinkos at NASA aren't letting us use the teleport technology we all know they've secretly got anytime soon, can I suggest cannons? Easy to install in any small to medium sized garden or communal outdoor space, string a net between the roofs of the four stands (providing a much-needed shot in the arm to our local net making industry), kablammo, all there in moments, minimal congestion. Perhaps one of the so-called "scientists" could fill us in on the carbon footprint, if any, of circus gunpowder.

Frankly, I'm struggling to see a downside.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on December 07, 2021, 12:53:49 PM
Realistically if they are actually serious about increasing capacity, they will likely (and sadly) have to look away from Villa Park. The transport inflexibility is a huge problem that won’t be solved by hair brained ideas like cable cars.  It’s a beautiful shrine to football in the middle of a housing estate with as bad transport links as any in the professional game.

Everton had the same problem - as did Arsenal. Something will have to give in the end.

I'm starting to think that's the only alternative. I doubt Messrs McGregor and Ramsay would have let sentiment stand in the way of progress.

I agree Dave.

If we take Everton as an example, they were told that due to lack of availability of land, they'd have to build it out of town and so were looking at a site in Kirkby, on the other side of the M57 about 6 miles out of the city centre.  After a lot of opposition from fans, they did a deal and are now moving to the new site on the docks, a mile or two out of the city centre. They've got the area's World Heritage status to deal with as well.

It's difficult to see how you can get round a lot of Villa Park's inherent problems. It's always going to have a row of houses on one side, and a Grade I listed historic house and its park on the other. It's always going to be surrounded by streets that are too narrow for the volume of cars, and there's never going to be enough pubs/restaurants around to dilute people arriving and leaving en masse.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 07, 2021, 12:57:09 PM
So, "no" to cannons, then?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Smith on December 07, 2021, 01:00:16 PM
Realistically if they are actually serious about increasing capacity, they will likely (and sadly) have to look away from Villa Park. The transport inflexibility is a huge problem that won’t be solved by hair brained ideas like cable cars.  It’s a beautiful shrine to football in the middle of a housing estate with as bad transport links as any in the professional game.

Everton had the same problem - as did Arsenal. Something will have to give in the end.

The problem is that within Birmingham you are likely to encounter similar problems wherever you move to. You’ve still got to find parking, transport links, food and drink outlets etc without alienating established businesses in the area and at the same time keeping the fan base happy.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: exigo on December 07, 2021, 01:04:27 PM
It's a shame we didn't have NSWE in five years back. I could have seen them buying up the industrial estate land near the Lichfield Road, and being able to build a 60,000+ ground within walking distance of the current site. Wouldn't have greatly affected any of the local boozers, and would make it easier to get in and out for road traffic.
The only way I can see us expanding the current site significantly is by buying up half of Nelson Road or dropping Witton Lane underneath a new stand – and neither of those will be easy or cheap.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on December 07, 2021, 01:12:15 PM
What's all this land below to the east of the City Centre? Only half a mile out, but seems a lot of space, and somewhere like that would mean most people could get into the city centre using the existing travel options and then just walk to the ground.

(https://i.ibb.co/dPxzNjP/Screenshot-2021-12-07-at-13-09-04.png) (https://ibb.co/dPxzNjP)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 07, 2021, 01:18:20 PM
HS2
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on December 07, 2021, 01:27:37 PM
I don't see the problem with the multi storey suggestion.  If one of the limiting factors to a North stand redevelopment is limited car parking (as DW suggested it is) then a 1 or 2 deck multi storey seems to be a perfectly reasonable solution to me.  How would it be any worse than underground parking?

Yes getting out will be a pain, but I'm thiking one or two decks to replace lost parking and slightly increase what we already have, not a 7 storey monstrocity.  It wouldn't really be much worse than getting out of a surface car park (particularly if filter lanes were adopted to stip one exit route having priority whilst another is completely blocked).  Also, as many of the visitors are likley to be corporate guests, hopefull they leaving times will be a bit staggered anyway.

I appreciate people like to take the piss out of Fred, but game pricing and the multi-storey suggestion are perfectly valid comments to make.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on December 07, 2021, 01:28:30 PM
Honestly, if they went back to one way systems after games the traffic would dissipate quickly. Provide buses in from New Street too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on December 07, 2021, 01:30:36 PM
Either that or put a helipad on top of the shop and do park and fly from Star City.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on December 07, 2021, 01:33:04 PM
I don't see the problem with the multi storey suggestion.  If one of the limiting factors to a North stand redevelopment is limited car parking (as DW suggested it is) then a 1 or 2 deck multi storey seems to be a perfectly reasonable solution to me.  How would it be any worse than underground parking?

Yes getting out will be a pain, but I'm thiking one or two decks to replace lost parking and slightly increase what we already have, not a 7 storey monstrocity.  It wouldn't really be much worse than getting out of a surface car park (particularly if filter lanes were adopted to stip one exit route having priority whilst another is completely blocked).  Also, as many of the visitors are likley to be corporate guests, hopefull they leaving times will be a bit staggered anyway.

I appreciate people like to take the piss out of Fred, but game pricing and the multi-storey suggestion are perfectly valid comments to make.

I once parked in Londonderry House in Dale End to go to a gig at the Academy, you're talking 2,000 people. It was horrific trying to get out. Imagine enduring that only to be stuck on the local roads behind everyone else.

There's only one solution, and it's a zero tolerance curfew at least two hours either side of the match for anyone without a valid match ticket, with a 15-20 mile radius.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 07, 2021, 01:43:11 PM
Given that the pinkos at NASA aren't letting us use the teleport technology we all know they've secretly got anytime soon, can I suggest cannons? Easy to install in any small to medium sized garden or communal outdoor space, string a net between the roofs of the four stands (providing a much-needed shot in the arm to our local net making industry), kablammo, all there in moments, minimal congestion.

Just need to put Tonev in charge of the firing to ensure we end up in the stands.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on December 07, 2021, 01:48:21 PM
I don't see the problem with the multi storey suggestion.  If one of the limiting factors to a North stand redevelopment is limited car parking (as DW suggested it is) then a 1 or 2 deck multi storey seems to be a perfectly reasonable solution to me.  How would it be any worse than underground parking?

Yes getting out will be a pain, but I'm thiking one or two decks to replace lost parking and slightly increase what we already have, not a 7 storey monstrocity.  It wouldn't really be much worse than getting out of a surface car park (particularly if filter lanes were adopted to stip one exit route having priority whilst another is completely blocked).  Also, as many of the visitors are likley to be corporate guests, hopefull they leaving times will be a bit staggered anyway.

I appreciate people like to take the piss out of Fred, but game pricing and the multi-storey suggestion are perfectly valid comments to make.

I once parked in Londonderry House in Dale End to go to a gig at the Academy, you're talking 2,000 people. It was horrific trying to get out. Imagine enduring that only to be stuck on the local roads behind everyone else.

There's only one solution, and it's a zero tolerance curfew at least two hours either side of the match for anyone without a valid match ticket, with a 15-20 mile radius.
I specifically addressed this.  I said a small 1 or 2 deck car park to replace the spaces lost to the North stand redev, not a big multi deck monstrosity.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on December 07, 2021, 01:50:38 PM
I don't see the problem with the multi storey suggestion.  If one of the limiting factors to a North stand redevelopment is limited car parking (as DW suggested it is) then a 1 or 2 deck multi storey seems to be a perfectly reasonable solution to me.  How would it be any worse than underground parking?

Yes getting out will be a pain, but I'm thiking one or two decks to replace lost parking and slightly increase what we already have, not a 7 storey monstrocity.  It wouldn't really be much worse than getting out of a surface car park (particularly if filter lanes were adopted to stip one exit route having priority whilst another is completely blocked).  Also, as many of the visitors are likley to be corporate guests, hopefull they leaving times will be a bit staggered anyway.

I appreciate people like to take the piss out of Fred, but game pricing and the multi-storey suggestion are perfectly valid comments to make.

I once parked in Londonderry House in Dale End to go to a gig at the Academy, you're talking 2,000 people. It was horrific trying to get out. Imagine enduring that only to be stuck on the local roads behind everyone else.

There's only one solution, and it's a zero tolerance curfew at least two hours either side of the match for anyone without a valid match ticket, with a 15-20 mile radius.

Yep, multi-story car parks are intended to be used where there's regular comings and goings like shopping centres, not where you've got hundreds of people arriving and leaving at the same time. It would just make a bad situation even worse.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on December 07, 2021, 01:54:54 PM
I think Park and rides situated north east west and South with free shuttles {inc in ticket price )

Liaise with the NEC to use their Parking potentially ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on December 07, 2021, 01:55:04 PM
Given that the pinkos at NASA aren't letting us use the teleport technology we all know they've secretly got anytime soon, can I suggest cannons? Easy to install in any small to medium sized garden or communal outdoor space, string a net between the roofs of the four stands (providing a much-needed shot in the arm to our local net making industry), kablammo, all there in moments, minimal congestion.

Just need to put Tonev in charge of the firing to ensure we end up in the stands.

We'd end up in the Stan Cullis Stand or the Trent End with him in charge.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on December 07, 2021, 01:56:40 PM
I think Park and rides situated north east west and South with free shuttles {inc in ticket price )

Liaise with the NEC to use their Parking potentially ?
Yes, an excellent idea.  A bit pricey though I'd guess.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on December 07, 2021, 02:00:15 PM
So, "no" to cannons, then?

Better idea. There's medievil tunnels leading to Aston Hall from the direction of Bevington road. Widen them a bit to take a narrow gauge rail train (like the stuff you see at theme parks)  and then extend them to the wasteland behind the mosque on Park circus roundabout. Direct all the busses there and then people come out in Aston Hall after a quick trip underground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on December 07, 2021, 02:02:01 PM
Honestly, if they went back to one way systems after games the traffic would dissipate quickly. Provide buses in from New Street too.
I think, in the real world, this is the way forward - one way system in the area for matchdays, plus "temporary" shuttle buses to New Street station until the rail situation's sorted out (tho I'd guess we'd be looking at a good 15-20 years for that in reality).

One thing I would say is that I'd read something about German football a bit back, where it reckoned Bayern derive most of their income from corporate hospitality, which is how/why they manage to keep their 'normal' tickets priced pretty low.  With that in mind, I'm not sure we *need* a 60k capacity stadium.  Anfield at the moment is only 53k.  What we actually need is to increase the revenue from corporate tickets.  If we can get the transport issues sorted, I don't think there's really much need to leave Villa Park - we just need to work out how to maximise the revenue (IMO massively increase the capacity of the North Stand, and rebuild the Witton Lane stand with a lower capacity, but really high spec.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on December 07, 2021, 02:05:06 PM
So, "no" to cannons, then?

Better idea. There's medievil tunnels leading to Aston Hall from the direction of Bevington road. Widen them a bit to take a narrow gauge rail train (like the stuff you see at theme parks)  and then extend them to the wasteland behind the mosque on Park circus roundabout. Direct all the busses there and then people come out in Aston Hall after a quick trip underground.

Merge the ideas - flood the underground tunnels, then use them to form part of the proposal canal/hovercraft extension.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on December 07, 2021, 02:06:05 PM
I don't see the problem with the multi storey suggestion.  If one of the limiting factors to a North stand redevelopment is limited car parking (as DW suggested it is) then a 1 or 2 deck multi storey seems to be a perfectly reasonable solution to me.  How would it be any worse than underground parking?

Yes getting out will be a pain, but I'm thiking one or two decks to replace lost parking and slightly increase what we already have, not a 7 storey monstrocity.  It wouldn't really be much worse than getting out of a surface car park (particularly if filter lanes were adopted to stip one exit route having priority whilst another is completely blocked).  Also, as many of the visitors are likley to be corporate guests, hopefull they leaving times will be a bit staggered anyway.

I appreciate people like to take the piss out of Fred, but game pricing and the multi-storey suggestion are perfectly valid comments to make.

I once parked in Londonderry House in Dale End to go to a gig at the Academy, you're talking 2,000 people. It was horrific trying to get out. Imagine enduring that only to be stuck on the local roads behind everyone else.

There's only one solution, and it's a zero tolerance curfew at least two hours either side of the match for anyone without a valid match ticket, with a 15-20 mile radius.

Yep, multi-story car parks are intended to be used where there's regular comings and goings like shopping centres, not where you've got hundreds of people arriving and leaving at the same time. It would just make a bad situation even worse.
I specifically addressed this.  I said a small 1 or 2 deck car park to replace the spaces lost to the North stand redev, not a big multi deck monstrosity.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 07, 2021, 02:09:39 PM
All you sheeple need to get with the times and stop thinking about physical presence.

It may have escaped your notice but much of the nation has spent almost two years working from home now. If we can 'work' from home then we can 'play' from home too.

I feel the solution involves getting rid of the stands and just putting in place a system to transfer what would have been on view in the ground, into our living rooms via some kind of viewing device.

Then we could all enjoy the action as if we were there.

The club could sell extra purchases for realism

A stinkbomb style device to make your toilet smell like the pits of the earth.

A tray of chips delivered to your house pre-cold, which only activate after 14 of the 15 minutes half time are over.

Every now and then, a racist to sit near you.

A tie-in with the local supermarkets where you show your subscription card and they give you warm beer at twice the usual price (after a suitable delay, obviously)

A modified smart speaker that plays abysmal 'music' at ear splitting volume as the teams walk out.

We need to start thinking BIG.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on December 07, 2021, 02:14:33 PM
So, "no" to cannons, then?

Better idea. There's medievil tunnels leading to Aston Hall from the direction of Bevington road. Widen them a bit to take a narrow gauge rail train (like the stuff you see at theme parks)  and then extend them to the wasteland behind the mosque on Park circus roundabout. Direct all the busses there and then people come out in Aston Hall after a quick trip underground.

Merge the ideas - flood the underground tunnels, then use them to form part of the proposal canal/hovercraft extension.

Aye. Or a combination of both. With the cable car easing the problem of private cars, the hovercraft tunnel scheme would deal with the public transport congestion.  Existing car parks and rail would cover the overflow. Just needed a bit of Blue Sky thinking. ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on December 07, 2021, 02:15:32 PM
Do I have to have someone sat behind me constantly shoving the back of my seat too?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 07, 2021, 02:27:59 PM
I think a trebuchet from New St is the only viable option.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on December 07, 2021, 02:38:03 PM
So, "no" to cannons, then?

Better idea. There's medievil tunnels leading to Aston Hall from the direction of Bevington road. Widen them a bit to take a narrow gauge rail train (like the stuff you see at theme parks)  and then extend them to the wasteland behind the mosque on Park circus roundabout. Direct all the busses there and then people come out in Aston Hall after a quick trip underground.

Merge the ideas - flood the underground tunnels, then use them to form part of the proposal canal/hovercraft extension.

If we're going down the tunnel route, how about a Tesla-inspired Hyperloop?  At 288mph you could get from Villa Park to New Street in 50 seconds!!

If the owners are serious in their ambitions it's the only sensible solution.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on December 07, 2021, 03:13:54 PM
He’s got a point about pricing

He would if we hadn't essentially sold both those games out.

Like it or not, the club will charge what people are willing to pay, and a near-as-dammit sell out suggests people are willing to pay a lot.


We hadn’t sold out so people weren’t willing to pay that’s the point

£50 with no concessions for kids at the top of the trinity is not well thought out imo
People saying other clubs do it is fair enough, But I don’t care about other clubs
we don’t have to follow if there’s a better way of getting people to take up far away seats, maybe family concessions etc then we should look at it
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on December 07, 2021, 03:14:13 PM
A rollercoaster!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on December 07, 2021, 03:19:13 PM
Realistically if they are actually serious about increasing capacity, they will likely (and sadly) have to look away from Villa Park. The transport inflexibility is a huge problem that won’t be solved by hair brained ideas like cable cars.  It’s a beautiful shrine to football in the middle of a housing estate with as bad transport links as any in the professional game.

Everton had the same problem - as did Arsenal. Something will have to give in the end.

I'm starting to think that's the only alternative. I doubt Messrs McGregor and Ramsay would have let sentiment stand in the way of progress.

I agree Dave.

If we take Everton as an example, they were told that due to lack of availability of land, they'd have to build it out of town and so were looking at a site in Kirkby, on the other side of the M57 about 6 miles out of the city centre.  After a lot of opposition from fans, they did a deal and are now moving to the new site on the docks, a mile or two out of the city centre. They've got the area's World Heritage status to deal with as well.

It's difficult to see how you can get round a lot of Villa Park's inherent problems. It's always going to have a row of houses on one side, and a Grade I listed historic house and its park on the other. It's always going to be surrounded by streets that are too narrow for the volume of cars, and there's never going to be enough pubs/restaurants around to dilute people arriving and leaving en masse.


The worst thing is, if you account for the village and stumps the site has easily enough area, it's just an impossible shape. The more I look the better an idea I think it is to look at the gas towers site, it's a perfect size and shape (if you take up the industiral sites nearby as well), it's got a station that's about the same distance as aston is from the current ground, there's very good road networks to there, it's a reasonable distance to walk from the city centre and I think you could quite easily convince the council to extend a tram line to there as part of the link to HS2.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nev on December 07, 2021, 03:19:24 PM
Jet Packs.

They could be given out as you get off the train or bus in Town, take off from the seemingly defunct tram lanes with landing sites in Aston Park.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 07, 2021, 03:23:16 PM
Realistically if they are actually serious about increasing capacity, they will likely (and sadly) have to look away from Villa Park. The transport inflexibility is a huge problem that won’t be solved by hair brained ideas like cable cars.  It’s a beautiful shrine to football in the middle of a housing estate with as bad transport links as any in the professional game.

Everton had the same problem - as did Arsenal. Something will have to give in the end.

I'm starting to think that's the only alternative. I doubt Messrs McGregor and Ramsay would have let sentiment stand in the way of progress.

I agree Dave.

If we take Everton as an example, they were told that due to lack of availability of land, they'd have to build it out of town and so were looking at a site in Kirkby, on the other side of the M57 about 6 miles out of the city centre.  After a lot of opposition from fans, they did a deal and are now moving to the new site on the docks, a mile or two out of the city centre. They've got the area's World Heritage status to deal with as well.

It's difficult to see how you can get round a lot of Villa Park's inherent problems. It's always going to have a row of houses on one side, and a Grade I listed historic house and its park on the other. It's always going to be surrounded by streets that are too narrow for the volume of cars, and there's never going to be enough pubs/restaurants around to dilute people arriving and leaving en masse.


The worst thing is, if you account for the village and stumps the site has easily enough area, it's just an impossible shape. The more I look the better an idea I think it is to look at the gas towers site, it's a perfect size and shape (if you take up the industiral sites nearby as well), it's got a station that's about the same distance as aston is from the current ground, there's very good road networks to there, it's a reasonable distance to walk from the city centre and I think you could quite easily convince the council to extend a tram line to there as part of the link to HS2.

Didn't someone say it's been sold for housing?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on December 07, 2021, 03:28:20 PM
Realistically if they are actually serious about increasing capacity, they will likely (and sadly) have to look away from Villa Park. The transport inflexibility is a huge problem that won’t be solved by hair brained ideas like cable cars.  It’s a beautiful shrine to football in the middle of a housing estate with as bad transport links as any in the professional game.

Everton had the same problem - as did Arsenal. Something will have to give in the end.

I'm starting to think that's the only alternative. I doubt Messrs McGregor and Ramsay would have let sentiment stand in the way of progress.

I agree Dave.

If we take Everton as an example, they were told that due to lack of availability of land, they'd have to build it out of town and so were looking at a site in Kirkby, on the other side of the M57 about 6 miles out of the city centre.  After a lot of opposition from fans, they did a deal and are now moving to the new site on the docks, a mile or two out of the city centre. They've got the area's World Heritage status to deal with as well.

It's difficult to see how you can get round a lot of Villa Park's inherent problems. It's always going to have a row of houses on one side, and a Grade I listed historic house and its park on the other. It's always going to be surrounded by streets that are too narrow for the volume of cars, and there's never going to be enough pubs/restaurants around to dilute people arriving and leaving en masse.


The worst thing is, if you account for the village and stumps the site has easily enough area, it's just an impossible shape. The more I look the better an idea I think it is to look at the gas towers site, it's a perfect size and shape (if you take up the industiral sites nearby as well), it's got a station that's about the same distance as aston is from the current ground, there's very good road networks to there, it's a reasonable distance to walk from the city centre and I think you could quite easily convince the council to extend a tram line to there as part of the link to HS2.

Didn't someone say it's been sold for housing?

Not sure but that's something you'd hope the owners could remedy.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 07, 2021, 03:29:51 PM
I don't think landgrabs are allowed anymore.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on December 07, 2021, 03:32:14 PM
I'm not sure anyone would be very impressed if we were to block a new housing development in the current climate. Unless of course we sold Villa Park for the same. That would be quite an address wouldn't it? 1 Villa Park, Trinity Road, Birmingham....
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rico on December 07, 2021, 03:53:30 PM
If we're looking to move then surely the perfect location would be Erdington High Street. It might take a few quid to buy out all of the businesses, but it would be a great location. Two train stations, three if you want to walk a bit further to Chester Road. Easy access to the motorway network, and seeing as a lot of our support comes from North Birmingham, it would make getting to and from the match a piece of cake, and it would be a vast improvement on Erdington High Street as it is now. Sorted! (Only joking)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on December 07, 2021, 03:59:29 PM
We could buy the Royal Mail Distribution centre... Though the Bartons would get a lot busier.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on December 07, 2021, 04:18:48 PM
If we're looking to move then surely the perfect location would be Erdington High Street. It might take a few quid to buy out all of the businesses, but it would be a great location. Two train stations, three if you want to walk a bit further to Chester Road. Easy access to the motorway network, and seeing as a lot of our support comes from North Birmingham, it would make getting to and from the match a piece of cake, and it would be a vast improvement on Erdington High Street as it is now. Sorted! (Only joking)

Sutton Park. Massive, loads of parking, some nice pubs as well. And still in Birmingham.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rico on December 07, 2021, 04:52:28 PM
If we're looking to move then surely the perfect location would be Erdington High Street. It might take a few quid to buy out all of the businesses, but it would be a great location. Two train stations, three if you want to walk a bit further to Chester Road. Easy access to the motorway network, and seeing as a lot of our support comes from North Birmingham, it would make getting to and from the match a piece of cake, and it would be a vast improvement on Erdington High Street as it is now. Sorted! (Only joking)

Sutton Park. Massive, loads of parking, some nice pubs as well. And still in Birmingham.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rico on December 07, 2021, 04:53:13 PM
Excellent Idea!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: astonvilla82 on December 07, 2021, 05:06:47 PM
Could have built a new ground on the old longbridge site, but with the one million Birmingham fans that work there,I think it would have been a major problem
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on December 07, 2021, 05:18:03 PM
Could have built a new ground on the old longbridge site, but with the one million Birmingham fans that work there,I think it would have been a major problem

And it's a shite part of Brum.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on December 07, 2021, 05:23:04 PM
I think the solution is staring all the particle physicists in the face - A simple wormhole linking Trinity Road to New St Station.

All people would have to do is step in at either Trinity Road or New St to be instantaneously transported to the other location. Albert Einstein believed in them, so with NSWE's resources they'd be able to easily develop one. And it could be put away when not required.

Care would need to be taken that people passing through arrived at the destination at the same time. If people were able to pass through the New St end of the wormhole at 1.30pm, but arrived at 5.30pm you might think they'd missed the game (for a 3pm game). However, these people could simply return to New St via the wormhole to be back at 1.30pm. It might be an issue if these people then hightail it to Billy Hill's to lump a months wages of a first-goalscorer/Correct score double though. :)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KevinGage on December 07, 2021, 05:24:52 PM
If we're looking to move then surely the perfect location would be Erdington High Street. It might take a few quid to buy out all of the businesses...

About £20 should do it.

Seeing as they are mostly pound shops now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on December 07, 2021, 05:30:10 PM
If we're looking to move then surely the perfect location would be Erdington High Street. It might take a few quid to buy out all of the businesses...

About £20 should do it.

Seeing as they are mostly pound shops now.

It is sad, the hours spent with my Mom and Nan traipsing up and down that High St, a doughnut from Wimbush to keep me sweet.  We literally lived just off it on York Rd, the place had everything you needed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rico on December 07, 2021, 05:34:54 PM


If we're looking to move then surely the perfect location would be Erdington High Street. It might take a few quid to buy out all of the businesses...

About £20 should do it.

Seeing as they are mostly pound shops now.

That much?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: astonvilla82 on December 07, 2021, 05:39:29 PM
LeeB,is it heckers like,(please insert some other words like is it f**k)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on December 07, 2021, 05:43:11 PM
LeeB,is it heckers like,(please insert some other words like is it f**k)

Sorry mate, I'm a bit confused. Are you disputing the sadness of the demise of Erdington High St, or me claiming Longbridge is a shite part of Brum?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on December 07, 2021, 05:44:00 PM
ha ha i love the input on this thread , when we know we won’t move
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: tomd2103 on December 07, 2021, 05:45:58 PM
Wouldn't want us to move, but if we ever did consider it then it would have to be into the city centre.  Was in town the other day and the Dale End area is very grim and could do with flattening really.  Wouldn't be a bad spot given it's close proximity to all the major travel links.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on December 07, 2021, 05:48:30 PM
If we're looking to move then surely the perfect location would be Erdington High Street. It might take a few quid to buy out all of the businesses, but it would be a great location. Two train stations, three if you want to walk a bit further to Chester Road. Easy access to the motorway network, and seeing as a lot of our support comes from North Birmingham, it would make getting to and from the match a piece of cake, and it would be a vast improvement on Erdington High Street as it is now. Sorted! (Only joking)

Sutton Park. Massive, loads of parking, some nice pubs as well. And still in Birmingham.
Stop it. You are just trying to further antagonise our small heath brethren.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: astonvilla82 on December 07, 2021, 05:48:39 PM
LEE B claiming longbridge is a shit hole
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on December 07, 2021, 05:54:37 PM
LEE B claiming longbridge is a shit hole

In my defence, I was more referring to getting to and from the place, it's right at the arse tip of Brum and getting there from town always took ages.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 07, 2021, 06:06:22 PM
We can't, won't and shouldn't move. Yes, the walk to VP isn't like going to Craven Cottage, but when you pass under the flyover after getting off at Aston station, there's no better sight or feeling than seeing the Holte come into view once you turn the corner.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on December 07, 2021, 06:14:04 PM
We can't, won't and shouldn't move. Yes, the walk to VP isn't like going to Craven Cottage, but when you pass under the flyover after getting off at Aston station, there's no better sight or feeling than seeing the Holte come into view once you turn the corner.
There can't be a much better approach to any football ground in the country.Traveling in from the Witton end isn't quite so salubrious as the concrete and glass of the North Stand comes into view. In all seriousness redeveloping the the North Stand is the only viable option right now. Which brings us back to square one. Traffic congestion. I think I may have mentioned this previously. Pages 103,127,198 & 207.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Herman on December 07, 2021, 06:17:36 PM
I think what is needed to sort out the travel links is for the club to buy a big helicopter (maybe the biggest helicopter in the world). Every home supporter gets their own parachute. At the end of each game, Villa park could be lifted off magic foundations, flown around Birmingham and its environs, and each supporter could simply parachute out at their chosen location. When everyone is home, the ground could then be flown back to Aston.
 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Pete3206 on December 07, 2021, 06:21:13 PM
Just leave off the Erdington bashing you lot. On leaving Charlie Hall's on Sunday night, I managed to walk a whole hundred yards without being accosted by a Perla totting maniac, screeching something incoherent into my ear. Bring Villa Park to Six Ways!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rico on December 07, 2021, 06:57:46 PM
I think what is needed to sort out the travel links is for the club to buy a big helicopter (maybe the biggest helicopter in the world). Every home supporter gets their own parachute. At the end of each game, Villa park could be lifted off magic foundations, flown around Birmingham and its environs, and each supporter could simply parachute out at their chosen location. When everyone is home, the ground could then be flown back to Aston.
 

This is pure genius. Probably the best idea ever. Do we get parachute payments?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: rjp on December 07, 2021, 07:10:44 PM
The club should buy a load of Sedan chairs with handles long enough for six fingered hands.  The noses need some employment so there'd be no worries finding people to carry them.  As long as you don't want to go to Sherlock Street after the game it'd work fine.

{alt}
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on December 07, 2021, 07:17:14 PM
The club should buy a load of Sedan chairs with handles long enough for six fingered hands.  The noses need some employment so there'd be no worries finding people to carry them.  As long as you don't want to go to Sherlock Street after the game it'd work fine.

{alt}

Nice but who would we get to carry them though? How about those cycle bars you get in Prague? About 12 of you with your own set of pedals each and just cycle to your destination. Environmentally friendly and there's beer. A whole fleet of them lined up outside the ground would be the bees bollocks.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TonyD on December 07, 2021, 07:38:05 PM
Indeed. That's what gave me the idea.  The thames one has a capacity of 2,500 people per hour or 30 buses!

I can think of better uses of public or private money than building a fucking cable car to get people to Villa Park.

Cost 60m in the most expensive city in the world. How much would the other options cost?

60m pays for more buses and trains not a bloody antiquated method of transport that’s good for people who want to get up mountains and hills, not so good when you’re trying to transport as many people as possible in short time frames across distance.
Cable cars are an excellent, quick and cheap solutions for city transportation.
Mexico City have used them to good effect to connect the slums back to prosperous centre.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 07, 2021, 07:47:39 PM
I think what is needed to sort out the travel links is for the club to buy a big helicopter (maybe the biggest helicopter in the world). Every home supporter gets their own parachute. At the end of each game, Villa park could be lifted off magic foundations, flown around Birmingham and its environs, and each supporter could simply parachute out at their chosen location. When everyone is home, the ground could then be flown back to Aston.

We don't exactly have a happy history with parachutists at VP. ::)  Other than that your plan is sound. :)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on December 07, 2021, 08:02:38 PM
Las Vegas Villains set to join the MLS franchise in 2024. Edens company is invested in the LV to LA high speed rail line too. Proper old railroad tycoon in charge of us.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Exeter 77 on December 07, 2021, 08:11:43 PM
The club should buy a load of Sedan chairs with handles long enough for six fingered hands.  The noses need some employment so there'd be no worries finding people to carry them.  As long as you don't want to go to Sherlock Street after the game it'd work fine.

{alt}

Isn't that how noses presume we travel to and from games already?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 07, 2021, 08:17:21 PM
We can't, won't and shouldn't move. Yes, the walk to VP isn't like going to Craven Cottage, but when you pass under the flyover after getting off at Aston station, there's no better sight or feeling than seeing the Holte come into view once you turn the corner.

Nothing more needs to be said.

I can't believe people would countenance a move from Villa Park yet get annoyed by some fans saying 'Stevie G'.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on December 07, 2021, 08:26:22 PM
With the US franchise, I wonder if this is a means of bringing through some South American players who wouldn't ordinarily get a look in?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Stu on December 07, 2021, 09:09:19 PM
An excuse for a trip to Vegas. Not that I need one tbh.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 07, 2021, 09:35:33 PM
I've never been, so may be doing it a disservice, but I can't think of anywhere I'd less like to go to.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on December 07, 2021, 09:43:56 PM
With the US franchise, I wonder if this is a means of bringing through some South American players who wouldn't ordinarily get a look in?
I thought the new post-Brexit work permit rules basically meant that half decent players from South America (particularly those that play in Brazil or Argentina) were pretty nailed on to get work permits anyway?

Not to say that isn't the plan, mind.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on December 07, 2021, 09:52:09 PM
I've never been, so may be doing it a disservice, but I can't think of anywhere I'd less like to go to.

I said exactly that to my now wife, about 6 months before the surprise, no expense spared trip she'd spent a bomb on was about to take me there for my 30th.

It was fucking ace, and I didn't gamble. I think that was a big part of it being ace.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on December 07, 2021, 09:53:56 PM
The club should buy a load of Sedan chairs with handles long enough for six fingered hands.  The noses need some employment so there'd be no worries finding people to carry them.  As long as you don't want to go to Sherlock Street after the game it'd work fine.

{alt}


This idea has the added bonus of making me laugh thinking about 'The Thick of It'.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 07, 2021, 10:04:35 PM
I've never been, so may be doing it a disservice, but I can't think of anywhere I'd less like to go to.

I said exactly that to my now wife, about 6 months before the surprise, no expense spared trip she'd spent a bomb on was about to take me there for my 30th.

It was fucking ace, and I didn't gamble. I think that was a big part of it being ace.

If you're not into gambling or prostitutes (I quite like gambling) what is there to do in Vegas?!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on December 07, 2021, 10:05:44 PM
I've never been, so may be doing it a disservice, but I can't think of anywhere I'd less like to go to.

I said exactly that to my now wife, about 6 months before the surprise, no expense spared trip she'd spent a bomb on was about to take me there for my 30th.

It was fucking ace, and I didn't gamble. I think that was a big part of it being ace.

Vegas is incredible. I went a decade ago and would drop everything and go tomorrow if I thought it wouldn't end in divorce!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on December 07, 2021, 10:07:32 PM
Go on a coaster that goes through a hotel. Go on a chopper ride to see the Nevada interior; Hoover Dam etc. And  this  (https://youtu.be/vJaOFMWSZb4)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: astonvilla82 on December 07, 2021, 10:11:57 PM
Not a gambler,is it worth going for anything else
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on December 07, 2021, 10:22:30 PM
Not a gambler,is it worth going for anything else
Apart from the casinos, there are some incredible shows there. Or take a helicopter to the Grand Canyon. Or do the Hoover Dam tour. You can go in the other direction and visit Death Valley for the day (it's more interesting than you might imagine). There are likely other excursions that I'm not aware of (don't bother with the Area 51 one though).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: thick_mike on December 07, 2021, 10:58:28 PM
Isn’t Adele doing a residency in Las Vegas?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SaddVillan on December 07, 2021, 11:04:07 PM
2 shows a week for15 weeks, with a week off in the middle, poor little soul is working herself into an early grave!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 07, 2021, 11:24:55 PM
You can go in the other direction and visit Death Valley for the day (it's more interesting than you might imagine). There are likely other excursions that I'm not aware of (don't bother with the Area 51 one though).

There also the World's tallest thermometer* in Baker, CA on the way to/from LA.

*It's not really worth the detour.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on December 07, 2021, 11:36:34 PM
I'd love to go to America one day. The only thing that puts me off is that it's full of Americans.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: gpbarr on December 08, 2021, 12:05:37 AM
I'd love to go to America one day. The only thing that puts me off is that it's full of Americans.

Easy. The wife’s American bless her.

You could also take a trip to Parump which is a sprawling low rent suburb just over the hill (so you can’t see it from downtown) - it’s where the workers (including the prostitutes live). I stopped when driving through for a Big Mac at the Golden Arch and …. got moving right on out of there pretty fast!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on December 08, 2021, 12:26:20 AM
Isn’t Adele doing a residency in Las Vegas?


Aye. f*ck Vegas. Not worth the risk. You could get offered free tickets, or worse, win them.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on December 08, 2021, 05:31:23 AM
Must admit that places like Vegas and Miami are high on the list of places I'd never want to visit.

Would love to go to Chicago, New Orleans and San Francisco. Could pop to all 3 on a day trip...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 08, 2021, 05:32:29 AM
Must admit that places like Vegas and Miami are high on the list of places I'd never want to visit.

Would love to go to Chicago, New Orleans and San Francisco. Could pop to all 3 on a day trip...

Good luck!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 08, 2021, 08:31:45 AM
Must admit that places like Vegas and Miami are high on the list of places I'd never want to visit.

Would love to go to Chicago, New Orleans and San Francisco. Could pop to all 3 on a day trip...
Sadly you would spend an awful lot of time in the air.
There are some cool places in Miami, I think Vegas is one of those places you have to see once. I would have been very happy if my first trip was my last, it wasnt.
Chicago is the most under rated city in America.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Vegas on December 08, 2021, 08:47:17 AM
As someone who has spent a bit of time there (in fact created this account there 15 years ago), my opinion is is somewhere in the middle. I do gamble (poker), so I personally love that side of it (the fake skill games like blackjack do nothing for me personally though).

I would say it’s pretty good for 3 days - as others have said there’s loads of stuff to see and do, including some surprising stuff like Red Rock canyon. The scenery is immense in scale basically any direction 10 miles out of Vegas.

But I would have it behind New York, LA, San Francisco, Chicago, New Orleans, Austin, even Seattle and Boston as a destination for someone who hasn’t been to the US, unless they really like pool parties and strippers.

Also (not having a go at the poster above particularly, I think this is fairly common) it’s still amazing to me how people can say “I would love America if not for the Americans” in a way they wouldnt dream of saying about say Spain or India or Nigeria or anywhere else. Like anywhere there are twats, but there are also some of the kindest, warmest, most reasonable people I’ve ever met.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on December 08, 2021, 08:53:23 AM
An American said to me that as long as you avoid California then Americans are lovely . Bit like the UK and London.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dicedlam on December 08, 2021, 09:06:36 AM
I haven't been back to Vegas since the shooting, but if you are thinking about a visit, then a trip to downtown Vegas is a must. Downtown is not so much a rip off like the main strip and it is a whole lot cheaper (gaming/beers/food etc). Great atmosphere too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 08, 2021, 09:33:20 AM
As someone who has spent a bit of time there (in fact created this account there 15 years ago), my opinion is is somewhere in the middle. I do gamble (poker), so I personally love that side of it (the fake skill games like blackjack do nothing for me personally though).

I would say it’s pretty good for 3 days - as others have said there’s loads of stuff to see and do, including some surprising stuff like Red Rock canyon. The scenery is immense in scale basically any direction 10 miles out of Vegas.

But I would have it behind New York, LA, San Francisco, Chicago, New Orleans, Austin, even Seattle and Boston as a destination for someone who hasn’t been to the US, unless they really like pool parties and strippers.

Also (not having a go at the poster above particularly, I think this is fairly common) it’s still amazing to me how people can say “I would love America if not for the Americans” in a way they wouldnt dream of saying about say Spain or India or Nigeria or anywhere else. Like anywhere there are twats, but there are also some of the kindest, warmest, most reasonable people I’ve ever met.
spot on Vegas.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Holte L2 on December 08, 2021, 09:37:57 AM
An American said to me that as long as you avoid California then Americans are lovely . Bit like the UK and London.

My wife and I got married in Malibu, stayed in LA.and honeymooned in Palm Springs. I can also say the people of Cali are lovely.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on December 08, 2021, 09:45:09 AM
An American said to me that as long as you avoid California then Americans are lovely . Bit like the UK and London.

My wife and I got married in Malibu, stayed in LA.and honeymooned in Palm Springs. I can also say the people of Cali are lovely.

Never been so I can't comment. I took him to mean California is almost a separate entity from the rest of the country and the media image that annoys Americans and rest of the world largely emanates from California.

Dunno.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 08, 2021, 09:45:28 AM
An American said to me that as long as you avoid California then Americans are lovely . Bit like the UK and London.

My wife and I got married in Malibu, stayed in LA.and honeymooned in Palm Springs. I can also say the people of Cali are lovely.
The only place that you come across persistently obnoxious is New York and New Jersey is a the equivalent of Essex.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on December 08, 2021, 09:49:27 AM
An American said to me that as long as you avoid California then Americans are lovely . Bit like the UK and London.

My wife and I got married in Malibu, stayed in LA.and honeymooned in Palm Springs. I can also say the people of Cali are lovely.
The only place that you come across persistently obnoxious is New York and New Jersey is a the equivalent of Essex.

I am always dubious about castigating a certain region of people.  Is there not twats everywhere
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Duncan Shaw on December 08, 2021, 09:54:11 AM
An American said to me that as long as you avoid California then Americans are lovely . Bit like the UK and London.

My wife and I got married in Malibu, stayed in LA.and honeymooned in Palm Springs. I can also say the people of Cali are lovely.
The only place that you come across persistently obnoxious is New York and New Jersey is a the equivalent of Essex.

Classic H&v thread drift!!

There's some odd folk in central Florida, my Mrs has a villa near Orlando and trips to Wal-Mart are eye opening!

Anyway, Boris permitting we are flying out to Miami 30th Dec.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on December 08, 2021, 10:05:33 AM
An American said to me that as long as you avoid California then Americans are lovely . Bit like the UK and London.

My wife and I got married in Malibu, stayed in LA.and honeymooned in Palm Springs. I can also say the people of Cali are lovely.
The only place that you come across persistently obnoxious is New York and New Jersey is a the equivalent of Essex.

I am always dubious about castigating a certain region of people.  Is there not twats everywhere
I mean, there's higher or lower concentrations in different places, but yeah ... you get twats everywhere, and you get lovely folk everywhere too.


We visited America when I was 7.  You'll struggle to get any subtleties out of me, but I remember we visited Las Vegas and I really enjoyed it - went to see the Grand Canyon, which was utterly amazing.   Went to the Hoover Dam & Death Valley too.  A mate went recently with work, and he said that downtown was quite a lot more fun than the strip.

One thing I did get from America was that, whilst there's some undoubtedly 'odd' views on stuff like guns, race, and whatnot ... I mean, they've really messed up on the whole breakfast thing, they've not understood that concept at all.  But amongst that, there's some really lovely, warm, quirky people too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on December 08, 2021, 10:10:25 AM
An American said to me that as long as you avoid California then Americans are lovely . Bit like the UK and London.

My wife and I got married in Malibu, stayed in LA.and honeymooned in Palm Springs. I can also say the people of Cali are lovely.
The only place that you come across persistently obnoxious is New York and New Jersey is a the equivalent of Essex.

I am always dubious about castigating a certain region of people.  Is there not twats everywhere

True, but there's a general twat drift and accumulation to certain areas. Over here we send them to London and if we're lucky they end up in California.

James Corden - London - California
Prince Harry - London - California
Piers Morgan - London - California
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 08, 2021, 10:12:41 AM
An American said to me that as long as you avoid California then Americans are lovely . Bit like the UK and London.

My wife and I got married in Malibu, stayed in LA.and honeymooned in Palm Springs. I can also say the people of Cali are lovely.
The only place that you come across persistently obnoxious is New York and New Jersey is a the equivalent of Essex.

I am always dubious about castigating a certain region of people.  Is there not twats everywhere
yes, it’s just that Certain places have higher concentrations. Sometimes stereotypes are indicative.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on December 08, 2021, 10:52:42 AM
I visited Vegas about a month ago, first time out the country for nearly two years! My main customer over there moved to Las Vegas as it has a good airport for getting around the US on direct flights. His business is still based in Fresno, which is in the main agricultural region of California (Central Valley).

Vegas was what you would expect, and a bit too busy for me. Can see why a 'soccer franchise' would work there though. And if I have to visit a couple of times a year and I can watch Yankee Villa (or whatever they end up being), that's a bonus I guess.

As for California, I agree that the big cities are not the full of the best of America. However I spend most of my time there in small towns in the agricultural areas and they are very different, and find the people really nice. Fresno and Bakersfield are not pretty cities, but the national parks near them are incredible. I like America in general though, Brits get a really warm welcome there and there is so much to see.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Scott Nielsen on December 08, 2021, 12:29:24 PM
An American said to me that as long as you avoid California then Americans are lovely . Bit like the UK and London.

My wife and I got married in Malibu, stayed in LA.and honeymooned in Palm Springs. I can also say the people of Cali are lovely.
The only place that you come across persistently obnoxious is New York and New Jersey is a the equivalent of Essex.

I am always dubious about castigating a certain region of people.  Is there not twats everywhere

True, but there's a general twat drift and accumulation to certain areas. Over here we send them to London and if we're lucky they end up in California.

James Corden - London - California
Prince Harry - London - California
Piers Morgan - London - California

Cali is a lot more than a few suburbs in L.A. though. It's a big fucking place.

If we are to make sweeping generalizations about the U.S., I'd go with the West and East coast being noticeably different to the middle. Though my own travel experiences in middle-America have been great with unfailingly hospitable and polite people, I am mindful of steering conversations onto safe subjects as there are some cultural differences that can otherwise make for awkward and strained exchanges.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on December 08, 2021, 12:42:53 PM
An American said to me that as long as you avoid California then Americans are lovely . Bit like the UK and London.

My wife and I got married in Malibu, stayed in LA.and honeymooned in Palm Springs. I can also say the people of Cali are lovely.
The only place that you come across persistently obnoxious is New York and New Jersey is a the equivalent of Essex.

I am always dubious about castigating a certain region of people.  Is there not twats everywhere

True, but there's a general twat drift and accumulation to certain areas. Over here we send them to London and if we're lucky they end up in California.

James Corden - London - California
Prince Harry - London - California
Piers Morgan - London - California

Cali is a lot more than a few suburbs in L.A. though. It's a big fucking place.

If we are to make sweeping generalizations about the U.S., I'd go with the West and East coast being noticeably different to the middle. Though my own travel experiences in middle-America have been great with unfailingly hospitable and polite people, I am mindful of steering conversations onto safe subjects as there are some cultural differences that can otherwise make for awkward and strained exchanges.
Such as? I'm hoping to go there next year and don't want to make an ass of myself
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on December 08, 2021, 12:51:33 PM
Religion, abortion and Donald Trump would be three to steer clear of.

I love the States, elements of the population may have a very insular view of the world, but the majority I've come across are warm, friendly and hospitable.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Border villan on December 08, 2021, 12:52:36 PM
Vegas - Blackpool without the charm.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Scott Nielsen on December 08, 2021, 12:54:05 PM
Guns and domestic politics. (Though it can be both interesting and weirdly entertaining if you can sit back and just listen but it's hard to hold yer tongue).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on December 08, 2021, 12:58:00 PM
An American said to me that as long as you avoid California then Americans are lovely . Bit like the UK and London.

My wife and I got married in Malibu, stayed in LA.and honeymooned in Palm Springs. I can also say the people of Cali are lovely.
The only place that you come across persistently obnoxious is New York and New Jersey is a the equivalent of Essex.

I am always dubious about castigating a certain region of people.  Is there not twats everywhere

True, but there's a general twat drift and accumulation to certain areas. Over here we send them to London and if we're lucky they end up in California.

James Corden - London - California
Prince Harry - London - California
Piers Morgan - London - California

Cali is a lot more than a few suburbs in L.A. though. It's a big fucking place.

If we are to make sweeping generalizations about the U.S., I'd go with the West and East coast being noticeably different to the middle. Though my own travel experiences in middle-America have been great with unfailingly hospitable and polite people, I am mindful of steering conversations onto safe subjects as there are some cultural differences that can otherwise make for awkward and strained exchanges.


yeah those comments are a tad tongue in cheek  ;) The only direct knowledge of urban California I have is a bloke I watch on youtube who fixes televisions he finds in the street by jetwashing them, plugging them in and if they don't explode, kicking them a bit and I find the insight he provides of the culture fascinating. It seems a bit of a hellhole compared to the sunny California myth, but perhaps his dislike of the place has rubbed off on me. He's a bit "choppy" at the best of times.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on December 08, 2021, 12:58:55 PM
I expected to hate Vegas but was swept up in the utter insanity of the place.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Scott Nielsen on December 08, 2021, 01:00:37 PM
Yeah I got that, SB. I'm just a bit protective of California. The High Sierras is my happy place.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on December 08, 2021, 01:15:44 PM
Yeah I got that, SB. I'm just a bit protective of California. The High Sierras is my happy place.

yeah, as you and others have said, you can't generalise about people and places especially in somewhere as vast as America so a snapshot of decaying downtown LA is no more valid a take than anywhere else. Although I will probably continue to generalise about London  8)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on December 08, 2021, 01:17:31 PM
I expected to hate Vegas but was swept up in the utter insanity of the place.

That it, it's the scale and the madness of it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KevinGage on December 08, 2021, 01:31:26 PM
An American said to me that as long as you avoid California then Americans are lovely . Bit like the UK and London.

My wife and I got married in Malibu, stayed in LA.and honeymooned in Palm Springs. I can also say the people of Cali are lovely.
The only place that you come across persistently obnoxious is New York and New Jersey is a the equivalent of Essex.

I am always dubious about castigating a certain region of people.  Is there not twats everywhere

True, but there's a general twat drift and accumulation to certain areas. Over here we send them to London and if we're lucky they end up in California.

James Corden - London - California
 

Britain's loss is America's loss also.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on December 08, 2021, 02:02:24 PM
I've been over there twice. The first was for a wedding in Vegas which we turned into a road trip taking in amongst others Reno, San Francisco, Santa Barbara, LA and a flight to New York. Like a few others have said, the American people we met really were very friendly. They do love us Brits.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on December 08, 2021, 02:37:26 PM
Somewhere Wes Edens is reclining, eating monkey-nuts and scrolling through this thread with a regular chuckle.

Think he loves us.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: usav on December 08, 2021, 02:41:34 PM
It's interesting reading these comments now as 47 year old me vs 26 year old me when I moved here.  I will make bullet points otherwise this will turn into an essay and get the whole discussion moved to off-topic.

  - Vegas: do it, but I would say 3-4 days is all you need there, it can wipe you out otherwise.
 - Cali: huge state, would rank as the World's 5th largest economy if it were a country.   Go to San Diego, San Fran, Napa Valley - you won't be disappointed.
 - People in general:  avoid politics and controversial subjects, it's just not worth it.  Everyone will be super nice to you regardless of background, voting history or anything else.  Just accept it's different and move on.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: martyn ellis on December 08, 2021, 03:38:24 PM
My wife and I did the cross-States trip a few years ago; San Francisco to New York by rail and bus in 13 days. Exhausting but also amazing. Met very warm and friendly people everywhere. Took a bit of time to get used to some of the customs, such as the tipping system (don't undertip or you'll likely get an earful), but generally loved it. Favourite quotes - a lady in a Frisco art gallery saying 'San Francisco isn't like America' (true enough); a guy at the Hoover dam discovering that both our grandfathers were from the same coalmining town in South Wales (Merthyr) and when I asked him if he'd ever been his retort was 'They told me not to go'. Magic. And the guy on the train in Colorado with his 15-year-old daughter asking us open-mouthed why we don't smoke dope every day.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: JD on December 09, 2021, 06:17:14 AM
Yeah I got that, SB. I'm just a bit protective of California. The High Sierras is my happy place.

yeah, as you and others have said, you can't generalise about people and places especially in somewhere as vast as America so a snapshot of decaying downtown LA is no more valid a take than anywhere else. Although I will probably continue to generalise about London  8)

That's because you are probably narrow minded  8) ;). The real London is a wonderful place full of great people. Like any big city there are idiots and you only hear the worst. You could say the same thing about any region of the UK. All my family and extended family come from (and most still live) in London and they are great.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on December 09, 2021, 07:05:26 AM
Yeah I got that, SB. I'm just a bit protective of California. The High Sierras is my happy place.

yeah, as you and others have said, you can't generalise about people and places especially in somewhere as vast as America so a snapshot of decaying downtown LA is no more valid a take than anywhere else. Although I will probably continue to generalise about London  8)

That's because you are probably narrow minded  8) ;). The real London is a wonderful place full of great people. Like any big city there are idiots and you only hear the worst. You could say the same thing about any region of the UK. All my family and extended family come from (and most still live) in London and they are great.

Like you all my family and siblings were born in London with just me the solitary Brummie so I've spent a lot of time down there and indeed worked down there for a period. So my view of the place is at least based on experience in this case.  8)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: JD on December 09, 2021, 07:24:27 AM
Yeah I got that, SB. I'm just a bit protective of California. The High Sierras is my happy place.

yeah, as you and others have said, you can't generalise about people and places especially in somewhere as vast as America so a snapshot of decaying downtown LA is no more valid a take than anywhere else. Although I will probably continue to generalise about London  8)

That's because you are probably narrow minded  8) ;). The real London is a wonderful place full of great people. Like any big city there are idiots and you only hear the worst. You could say the same thing about any region of the UK. All my family and extended family come from (and most still live) in London and they are great.

Like you all my family and siblings were born in London with just me the solitary Brummie so I've spent a lot of time down there and indeed worked down there for a period. So my view of the place is at least based on experience in this case.  8)

But you are still wrong mate. I love London, most of the issues with the people are the wannabee mockneys who actually come from the Home Counties.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on December 09, 2021, 08:08:32 AM
Dunno. I think to an extent the environment rubs off on people, so if you live in an endless dreary suburb then you're probably not going to be the friendliest. I'm always baffled why anyone would choose to live there personally, but perhaps i'm missing the charm  ;)  I still have to go down there at least once a year but the highlight for me is always getting past watford and the gridlocked traffic on the M1. ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: JD on December 09, 2021, 08:11:37 AM
Try going to some places on Essex instead mate. London will feel like going to paradise. There are some great community areas in parts of London, suppose it depends where you are going. Bit like Birmingham and any other city.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on December 09, 2021, 08:30:33 AM
yeah i'm sure there is. I'm not making out Birmingham is some sort of friendly paradise or anywhere else for that matter, just London is the extreme of that sort of urban living. The size has a lot to do with it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TonyD on December 09, 2021, 10:40:28 AM
I wouldn’t mind a blast in Vegas.   
I wouldn’t be doing any any gambling just on the lash. 
My take is it very cheap to eat and drink there.  Or has that changed.
What are we talking for a meal and a pint.  Hotel per night etc.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on December 09, 2021, 10:44:03 AM
I wouldn’t mind a blast in Vegas.   
I wouldn’t be doing any any gambling just on the lash. 
My take is it very cheap to eat and drink there.  Or has that changed.
What are we talking for a meal and a pint.  Hotel per night etc.

It was cheap when I went as the exchange rate was nearer $2 to the £, but the old Freemont St was way cheaper than anywhere on the strip, and was ace.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on December 09, 2021, 10:45:28 AM
Just thinking, is the MLS about the same standard as bottom half Championship/top half League 1?  We might be using it to loan players out to.  Just thinking that it'd avoid (for a few players) potential Louie Barry situations - we could loan the player out knowing they were getting the right coaching, and were playing regularly in the right position?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on December 09, 2021, 10:49:31 AM
Just thinking, is the MLS about the same standard as bottom half Championship/top half League 1?  We might be using it to loan players out to.  Just thinking that it'd avoid (for a few players) potential Louie Barry situations - we could loan the player out knowing they were getting the right coaching, and were playing regularly in the right position?

"There's two options for you lad, you can go to Rotherham or Vegas for a year. What's it to be?"
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on December 09, 2021, 11:24:32 AM
You're not from New York City, you're from Rotherham
So get off the bandwagon and put down the handbook
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on December 09, 2021, 11:26:58 AM
You know, I always thought it was 'handgun' until now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 09, 2021, 11:37:46 AM
yeah i'm sure there is. I'm not making out Birmingham is some sort of friendly paradise or anywhere else for that matter, just London is the extreme of that sort of urban living. The size has a lot to do with it.

This is absolute nonsense, sb. Hardly anyone in London is 'from' there, and they're as friendly as anyone else. If people don't talk to you on buses, well, who wants to talk to a stranger on a bus?!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 09, 2021, 11:38:47 AM
Also, people in Mexico City are very friendly, and that place dwarfs London.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on December 09, 2021, 11:43:59 AM
yeah i'm sure there is. I'm not making out Birmingham is some sort of friendly paradise or anywhere else for that matter, just London is the extreme of that sort of urban living. The size has a lot to do with it.

This is absolute nonsense, sb. Hardly anyone in London is 'from' there, and they're as friendly as anyone else. If people don't talk to you on buses, well, who wants to talk to a stranger on a bus?!

Not my experience SE.  I once held open a door in london for someone in 1987. I'd still be there now if I hadn't eventually let it close in someone's face as is the etiquette ;D
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on December 09, 2021, 11:47:21 AM
Just as likely that you were holding a door open for some ignorant northerner as a for a genuine cockney eel pie local. Which I think was SE’s point. London is full of non-Londoners.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 09, 2021, 11:47:41 AM
yeah i'm sure there is. I'm not making out Birmingham is some sort of friendly paradise or anywhere else for that matter, just London is the extreme of that sort of urban living. The size has a lot to do with it.

This is absolute nonsense, sb. Hardly anyone in London is 'from' there, and they're as friendly as anyone else. If people don't talk to you on buses, well, who wants to talk to a stranger on a bus?!

Not my experience SE.  I once held open a door in london for someone in 1987. I'd still be there now if I hadn't eventually let it close in someone's face as is the etiquette ;D

We'll agree to differ. My best friends in the world reside in London, as do their friends, and their friends. It's a great city.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on December 09, 2021, 11:49:53 AM
yeah i'm sure there is. I'm not making out Birmingham is some sort of friendly paradise or anywhere else for that matter, just London is the extreme of that sort of urban living. The size has a lot to do with it.

This is absolute nonsense, sb. Hardly anyone in London is 'from' there, and they're as friendly as anyone else. If people don't talk to you on buses, well, who wants to talk to a stranger on a bus?!

Not my experience SE.  I once held open a door in london for someone in 1987. I'd still be there now if I hadn't eventually let it close in someone's face as is the etiquette ;D

We'll agree to differ. My best friends in the world reside in London, as do their friends, and their friends. It's a great city.

London's not for me but generalising a city of 9m people is pretty mad.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on December 09, 2021, 11:56:34 AM
Just as likely that you were holding a door open for some ignorant northerner as a for a genuine cockney eel pie local. Which I think was SE’s point. London is full of non-Londoners.

yeah i got that - that's what its known for. People moving there for their careers. I can't say you meet many cockneys anymore. I'm sure there are some but its very fragmented
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on December 09, 2021, 11:58:58 AM
Don’t all the cockneys live in their white flight racist supremacist theme parks* in Essex and Kent these days?

* TM, Mr S Lee.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 09, 2021, 12:06:08 PM
I know a cockerney. Proper one, old man drove a black cab, 'olidays in Sarfend, lived here thirty years yet still no 'g' in burminnum. Tells everyone he lives in Bournville. He's round the back of the grosvenor, ffs, the cant.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on December 09, 2021, 12:54:19 PM
Back on topic

Not sure how many extra seats closing in the North stand sides would generate and not even sure it would work doing the same with the Holte. Would the huge expense be commensurate with the revenue it would bring?
Maybe they could attach extensions / levels to the tiers they already have (a lot of US stadiums seem to go up into the Gods) but not sure what the views would be like being so high.

On transport - i used to park on the official staff car park and it could take me an hour to just got off it. I now park on the street (by Yew tree pub) and it is so much quicker.
What they need is like the old days, Police presence directing a fair number of vehicles in and out of the side roads - without it it is carnage as no one lets anyone in and it just blocks all streets
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on December 10, 2021, 06:19:33 PM
Up to approx 50-55k and it’s a stadium any more and you’ve got an arena
people make the mistake of more people better atmosphere i Don’t think it works like that
You actually do the opposite because to many fans are detached

I’d like to see about 10k more in VP and leave it alone with that capacity
turn attention on upgrading facilities where you can
Behind the Holte end and North stand you could have a secured off area before you even enter the stadium


Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on December 10, 2021, 08:19:59 PM
Up to approx 50-55k and it’s a stadium any more and you’ve got an arena
people make the mistake of more people better atmosphere i Don’t think it works like that
You actually do the opposite because to many fans are detached

I’d like to see about 10k more in VP and leave it alone with that capacity
turn attention on upgrading facilities where you can
Behind the Holte end and North stand you could have a secured off area before you even enter the stadium
Yeah, I think I agree. The more you start thinking about the ins and outs of the whole thing, the less it makes sense to move.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Weedy on December 14, 2021, 11:50:28 AM
Interesting thread on Twitter - Swiss Ramble (from a BBC link).

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble

Football finance expert Swiss Ramble has crunched the numbers for clubs' earning and spending in England's top two divisions over the past decade so you don't have to.

There's several posts, but this one stood out:

As a result, in the last 10 years the top two English leagues have lost a massive £3.1 bln pre-tax with the largest losses at #AVFC £455m and #MCFC £446m. In this period only 11 out of 44 clubs managed to make money, led by #THFC £338m, #MUFC £191m, #AFC £112m and #NUFC £94m.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGjLuQxX0AAKgj-?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 14, 2021, 11:58:32 AM
Don't care, not my money. As long as there's still a warchest, I'm happy.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on December 14, 2021, 12:15:03 PM
Hmmm - how have Spurs made money and built a £750m stadium?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 14, 2021, 12:21:58 PM
Hmmm - how have Spurs made money and built a £750m stadium?
because it is a capital project.
So it’s impact is on the Balance sheet not the Profit and loss account.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on December 14, 2021, 12:31:24 PM
Thank you!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on December 14, 2021, 01:42:52 PM
Hmmm - how have Spurs made money and built a £750m stadium?
because it is a capital project.
So it’s impact is on the Balance sheet not the Profit and loss account.

How's Villadawg doing these days, was he Chicago-based too ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on December 14, 2021, 04:14:24 PM

As a result, in the last 10 years the top two English leagues have lost a massive £3.1 bln pre-tax with the largest losses at #AVFC £455m and #MCFC £446m. In this period only 11 out of 44 clubs managed to make money, led by #THFC £338m, #MUFC £191m, #AFC £112m and #NUFC £94m.

I'm scratching my head and wondering how that is even possible.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Beard82 on December 14, 2021, 04:17:33 PM

As a result, in the last 10 years the top two English leagues have lost a massive £3.1 bln pre-tax with the largest losses at #AVFC £455m and #MCFC £446m. In this period only 11 out of 44 clubs managed to make money, led by #THFC £338m, #MUFC £191m, #AFC £112m and #NUFC £94m.

I'm scratching my head and wondering how that is even possible.
This is over the last 10 years, so includes the dark days
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on December 14, 2021, 04:39:48 PM

As a result, in the last 10 years the top two English leagues have lost a massive £3.1 bln pre-tax with the largest losses at #AVFC £455m and #MCFC £446m. In this period only 11 out of 44 clubs managed to make money, led by #THFC £338m, #MUFC £191m, #AFC £112m and #NUFC £94m.

I'm scratching my head and wondering how that is even possible.
This is over the last 10 years, so includes the dark days
Yep, I get that. But even so. Four hundred and fifty-five million?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Beard82 on December 14, 2021, 05:08:41 PM

As a result, in the last 10 years the top two English leagues have lost a massive £3.1 bln pre-tax with the largest losses at #AVFC £455m and #MCFC £446m. In this period only 11 out of 44 clubs managed to make money, led by #THFC £338m, #MUFC £191m, #AFC £112m and #NUFC £94m.

I'm scratching my head and wondering how that is even possible.
This is over the last 10 years, so includes the dark days
Yep, I get that. But even so. Four hundred and fifty-five million?

I think if you look here - you can see a big reason for it:
https://www.transferleague.co.uk/aston-villa/english-football-teams/aston-villa-transfer

over the last 10 years our transfer business has been awful.  Hopefully that has now been amended - but that cant help at all.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on December 14, 2021, 05:20:42 PM

As a result, in the last 10 years the top two English leagues have lost a massive £3.1 bln pre-tax with the largest losses at #AVFC £455m and #MCFC £446m. In this period only 11 out of 44 clubs managed to make money, led by #THFC £338m, #MUFC £191m, #AFC £112m and #NUFC £94m.

I'm scratching my head and wondering how that is even possible.
This is over the last 10 years, so includes the dark days
Yep, I get that. But even so. Four hundred and fifty-five million?

I think if you look here - you can see a big reason for it:
https://www.transferleague.co.uk/aston-villa/english-football-teams/aston-villa-transfer

over the last 10 years our transfer business has been awful.  Hopefully that has now been amended - but that cant help at all.
So in 2019/20 fifteen players left and we didn't receive a penny for the lot. That season looks to be responsible for about 30% of that total. Glad it's not my money.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on December 14, 2021, 11:54:31 PM
Christopher Samba. I had totally forgotten about him.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on December 14, 2021, 11:59:17 PM
Christopher Samba. I had totally forgotten about him.

What was he, about 55 when we signed him?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: CT Villan on December 15, 2021, 02:10:41 AM
Our emergency striker too !
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dave P on December 15, 2021, 06:41:51 AM
When you think what the last 10 years have included, it’s no surprise. Lerner, Xia, Championship football. I’d be shocked if a similar chart for the last 2 years wouldn’t be a lot healthier looking.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 15, 2021, 02:47:16 PM
We spent around £700 million to end up worse off than we started. That's impressive.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on December 15, 2021, 04:46:53 PM
Christopher Samba. I had totally forgotten about him.

Came on for 5 minutes up front and looked like he was going to pass out.

Bloke behind said "fair play to him though, he has put a hell of a shift in".
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on December 15, 2021, 05:12:04 PM

As a result, in the last 10 years the top two English leagues have lost a massive £3.1 bln pre-tax with the largest losses at #AVFC £455m and #MCFC £446m. In this period only 11 out of 44 clubs managed to make money, led by #THFC £338m, #MUFC £191m, #AFC £112m and #NUFC £94m.

I'm scratching my head and wondering how that is even possible.
This is over the last 10 years, so includes the dark days
Yep, I get that. But even so. Four hundred and fifty-five million?
Makes me wonder about Man City. I'm no football finance expert but I've seen figures that point to there squad building as costing in the region of 1.5bn since the oil money started to flow. So how have they offset about a billion pound? It's not like they sell out every week and I can't see their corporate side raising anything like Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal etc. There's been some clever bookkeeping that's for sure.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on December 15, 2021, 05:19:58 PM

As a result, in the last 10 years the top two English leagues have lost a massive £3.1 bln pre-tax with the largest losses at #AVFC £455m and #MCFC £446m. In this period only 11 out of 44 clubs managed to make money, led by #THFC £338m, #MUFC £191m, #AFC £112m and #NUFC £94m.

I'm scratching my head and wondering how that is even possible.
This is over the last 10 years, so includes the dark days
Yep, I get that. But even so. Four hundred and fifty-five million?
Makes me wonder about Man City. I'm no football finance expert but I've seen figures that point to there squad building as costing in the region of 1.5bn since the oil money started to flow. So how have they offset about a billion pound? It's not like they sell out every week and I can't see their corporate side raising anything like Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal etc. There's been some clever bookkeeping that's for sure.

Their Corporate doping is every bit as lucrative as The other three clubs you mention.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 15, 2021, 05:25:59 PM

As a result, in the last 10 years the top two English leagues have lost a massive £3.1 bln pre-tax with the largest losses at #AVFC £455m and #MCFC £446m. In this period only 11 out of 44 clubs managed to make money, led by #THFC £338m, #MUFC £191m, #AFC £112m and #NUFC £94m.

I'm scratching my head and wondering how that is even possible.
This is over the last 10 years, so includes the dark days
Yep, I get that. But even so. Four hundred and fifty-five million?
Makes me wonder about Man City. I'm no football finance expert but I've seen figures that point to there squad building as costing in the region of 1.5bn since the oil money started to flow. So how have they offset about a billion pound? It's not like they sell out every week and I can't see their corporate side raising anything like Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal etc. There's been some clever bookkeeping that's for sure.

Their Corporate doping is every bit as lucrative as The other three clubs you mention.
they were pulled up on it and miraculously found not guilty , it’s not even clever book keeping, it’s how much do we put in the credit column to match the debit column, 150million stadium advertising, that’ll do.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on December 15, 2021, 06:37:43 PM
Something I was thinking in relation to a possible expansion in the corporate facilities.

Say the club, in the process of rebuilding the North Stand, create corporate facilities on a par with those in the Trinity, at what point does it become worthless to have any more of these facilities because there's no more demand for a ticket that costs £250 to see the game, have premium seats*, get a three/five course meal, four-and-a-half hours of free bar and an ex-player Q&A session?

*I realise you wouldn't necesarily get Premium Seats in a rebuilt North Stand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 15, 2021, 06:59:57 PM
Something I was thinking in relation to a possible expansion in the corporate facilities.

Say the club, in the process of rebuilding the North Stand, create corporate facilities on a par with those in the Trinity, at what point does it become worthless to have any more of these facilities because there's no more demand for a ticket that costs £250 to see the game, have premium seats*, get a three/five course meal, four-and-a-half hours of free bar and an ex-player Q&A session?

*I realise you wouldn't necesarily get Premium Seats in a rebuilt North Stand.

Try getting any corporates for the rest of the season before you answer that one.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on December 15, 2021, 07:09:41 PM
Something I was thinking in relation to a possible expansion in the corporate facilities.

Say the club, in the process of rebuilding the North Stand, create corporate facilities on a par with those in the Trinity, at what point does it become worthless to have any more of these facilities because there's no more demand for a ticket that costs £250 to see the game, have premium seats*, get a three/five course meal, four-and-a-half hours of free bar and an ex-player Q&A session?

*I realise you wouldn't necesarily get Premium Seats in a rebuilt North Stand.

Try getting any corporates for the rest of the season before you answer that one.
I'm genuinely curious to know where the line would be. I've done corporate once, and it was a great fun, but if I did it every game I'm sure the novelty would wear off. This is why I suspect that the point at which it wouldn't pay the club wouldn't necessarily be a lot more than the current limit. But, as you allude to, I could well be wrong, hence my question.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 15, 2021, 07:30:06 PM
I believe the demand is at the Lower corporate end of the market..
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on December 15, 2021, 07:35:18 PM
The corporate area is nearly all season tickets, and there's a long waiting list.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on December 15, 2021, 08:08:54 PM
I believe the demand is at the Lower corporate end of the market..


Exactly that. I’d be keen to pay more in order to access a lounge pre-match/half time/post-match and get served a drink within the hour.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Demitri_C on December 29, 2021, 07:54:17 PM
Sawiris has confirmed a deal with Egyptian side ZED FC to develop their youngsters. Could be a very promising move. The more fingers in more pies the better with us
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 29, 2021, 07:55:15 PM
Sawiris has confirmed a deal with Egyptian side ZED FC to develop their youngsters. Could be a very promising move. The more fingers in more pies the better with us
how would that work with work permits etc?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 29, 2021, 08:41:11 PM
Sawiris has confirmed a deal with Egyptian side ZED FC to develop their youngsters.

Or as Wes calls them, ZEE FC.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: papa lazarou on December 29, 2021, 09:10:31 PM
Probably a pyramid scheme.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 29, 2021, 11:50:04 PM
Probably a pyramid scheme.

Bravo!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 30, 2021, 08:23:00 PM
We're 6th. https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ranked-the-100-best-football-stadiums-grounds-britain-uk-england-scotland-wales

I'm sure if we moved to a nondescript bowl with great parking we'd soon jump up to No. 1.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 30, 2021, 08:54:24 PM
It's an odd list but a wonderful description.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 30, 2021, 09:12:06 PM
It's an odd list but a wonderful description.

I thought that too and it's not every football publication that acknowledges McGregor's importance.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on December 30, 2021, 09:22:46 PM
Weren’t the plans for Villa Park meant to be released in December?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on December 30, 2021, 09:26:48 PM
January I think Purslow said. Early part of 2022 anyway.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on December 30, 2021, 09:27:21 PM
Old Trafford is shit. It's big, but that's it. Horribly cramped everywhere, and a shit atmosphere, with the higher stands often restricting views and muffling what little sound there is. Also, no video screens is massively small time.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on December 30, 2021, 09:32:53 PM
They also have a rat problem.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 30, 2021, 09:33:12 PM
He said, about a month ago
“Those three elements – capacity, hospitality, commercial activities – form part of our vision for a redevelopment of Villa Park.

“We’re making good progress, I’m hoping to be able to apply for planning consent in the next month or so, for some or all of those ideas.”
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 30, 2021, 09:36:19 PM
They also have a rat problem.

I think that's actually Man City.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richtheholtender on December 30, 2021, 10:00:02 PM
They also have a rat problem.

I think that's actually Man City.



Absolute genius. Late entry post of the year.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on December 31, 2021, 01:57:00 AM
Weren’t the plans for Villa Park meant to be released in December?

Plans for expansion? I am now excited.

Anyone think we'll be dipping into the transfer market in Jan?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on December 31, 2021, 06:25:49 AM
They also have a rat problem.
I thought that was their neighbours with a rat problem…
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on December 31, 2021, 11:39:09 AM
Old Trafford is shit. It's big, but that's it. Horribly cramped everywhere, and a shit atmosphere, with the higher stands often restricting views and muffling what little sound there is. Also, no video screens is massively small time.

Absolutely this, it's the football ground equivalent of building an extension on a flat roofed pub to squeeze in a wacky warehouse, absolute shithole on a dog-eared industrial estate.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on December 31, 2021, 11:41:13 AM
Old Trafford is shit. It's big, but that's it. Horribly cramped everywhere, and a shit atmosphere, with the higher stands often restricting views and muffling what little sound there is. Also, no video screens is massively small time.

Absolutely this, it's the football ground equivalent of building an extension on a flat roofed pub to squeeze in a wacky warehouse, absolute shithole on a dog-eared industrial estate.

Ha ha love it
I’m going to be using that and claiming it as my own
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nev on December 31, 2021, 11:56:06 AM
Maybe if we'd made some sort of effort to retain the Trinity we'd have even more praise. It's just about the only thing I can be positive about as far as the Zombie's are concerned, that Main Stand is just stunning.

I think Everton should be top ten above Newton Heath, Old Trafford gets in on bullshit, hype and Bobby fuckin' Charlton's self aggrandisement. It has no character whatsoever and while it was fairly impressive 40 years ago it has no unique or distinctive features of the type that set it apart from other grounds.

Highbury will always be my favourite, after Villa Park obviously, and part of Arsenal's heritage disappeared when they left there.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 31, 2021, 11:59:00 AM
Who
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on December 31, 2021, 12:00:50 PM
Back from the dead Rangers

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on December 31, 2021, 03:17:52 PM
We're 6th. https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ranked-the-100-best-football-stadiums-grounds-britain-uk-england-scotland-wales

I'm sure if we moved to a nondescript bowl with great parking we'd soon jump up to No. 1.
It's a shame Levy's pride and joy is ranked below VP.
Personally I like Wham stadium and Seel park.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on December 31, 2021, 04:59:38 PM
I like the picture on that article of our neighbours ground. The one that looks like a KKK convention.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 31, 2021, 05:22:48 PM
I like the fact that Claggan Park home of "the worst football team in Britain" is ranked ahead of the Sty.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on January 01, 2022, 12:33:11 AM
We're 6th. https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ranked-the-100-best-football-stadiums-grounds-britain-uk-england-scotland-wales

I'm sure if we moved to a nondescript bowl with great parking we'd soon jump up to No. 1.
I really enjoyed reading that list.Theres a couple of curve balls in there. Craven Cottage fourth? I went there in the Championship and was not impressed at all. The "cottage" in the corner is a beautiful pice of architecture but that's about it. Unless you enjoy traipsing through a park after having your can of beer took off you. For me VP just needs a North stand upgrade and not just glass and concrete do something a bit special. I loved that they described us as aristocratic.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on January 13, 2022, 10:26:29 AM
We're almost four years into the NSWE era and I still can't really pick a fault with them.

This window has been excellent. Very grateful that they came in and saved us and are now backing us.

Cheers Wes and Nassef.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on January 13, 2022, 10:32:19 AM
What to do with the stadium is the next big challenge they have.  The squad we have should have zero risk of relegation and we don't break in to the Champions League with a 40,000 capacity stadium.  So redevelopment is needed and I hope they do it properly, not the way HDE vandalised the Trinity.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on January 13, 2022, 10:46:43 AM
I'd imagine those who were questioning their commitment are having second thoughts now. A fit-for-purpose DM and this will have been a fantastic window.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richtheholtender on January 13, 2022, 10:58:52 AM
I'd imagine those who were questioning their commitment are having second thoughts now. A fit-for-purpose DM and this will have been a fantastic window.



I am delighted to be proved wrong.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on January 13, 2022, 11:03:50 AM
What to do with the stadium is the next big challenge they have.  The squad we have should have zero risk of relegation and we don't break in to the Champions League with a 40,000 capacity stadium.  So redevelopment is needed and I hope they do it properly, not the way HDE vandalised the Trinity.

Purslow said they were hoping to have something to announce soon a couple of months ago on plans for the stadium
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on January 13, 2022, 11:21:33 AM
What to do with the stadium is the next big challenge they have.  The squad we have should have zero risk of relegation and we don't break in to the Champions League with a 40,000 capacity stadium.  So redevelopment is needed and I hope they do it properly, not the way HDE vandalised the Trinity.

Purslow said they were hoping to have something to announce soon a couple of months ago on plans for the stadium
Didn't he say that "plans" should be ready to submit by early Feb or early new year?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on January 13, 2022, 11:22:48 AM
What to do with the stadium is the next big challenge they have.  The squad we have should have zero risk of relegation and we don't break in to the Champions League with a 40,000 capacity stadium.  So redevelopment is needed and I hope they do it properly, not the way HDE vandalised the Trinity.

Purslow said they were hoping to have something to announce soon a couple of months ago on plans for the stadium
Didn't he say that "plans" should be ready to submit by early Feb or early new year?


ahhh you maybe right
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on January 13, 2022, 11:34:04 AM
I'd imagine those who were questioning their commitment are having second thoughts now.

Let's face it, was it ever in doubt?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 13, 2022, 11:39:23 AM
I'd imagine those who were questioning their commitment are having second thoughts now.

Let's face it, was it ever in doubt?
Yes, by a number of people on here and elsewhere.
I have always found this a bit baffling considering the way they have conducted themselves in pretty much every aspect of governance.
Maybe The Lerner and Payless experience has left some deep scars. But crikey you would have to go a long way to find better owners and custodians of a Football Club.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on January 13, 2022, 11:42:54 AM
I'd imagine those who were questioning their commitment are having second thoughts now.

Let's face it, was it ever in doubt?
Yes, by a number of people on here and elsewhere.
I have always found this a bit baffling considering the way they have conducted themselves in pretty much every aspect of governance.

I wasn't suggesting that it wasn't questioned on here merely that it was a more than a bit daft to do so (as you allude to).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: j66acd on January 13, 2022, 11:48:04 AM
I was chatting to a builder who was sorting my front door and he said he’s working on a place in Water Orton where the guy owns a civil engineering company. He said the tenders have been put in for the work behind the north stand so I’d imagine it’s pretty imminent.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on January 13, 2022, 11:50:28 AM
No plans have been released (or approved), so I wonder what they are?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on January 13, 2022, 12:24:57 PM
That's probably the plans to flatten stumps and the Villa village offices which were floated last year. A hotel was talked about.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FrankyH on January 16, 2022, 11:14:19 AM
Noticed yesterday the club have taken some seats out of the lower away section (next to R block) , to build what looks like a service tunnel . Anyone else notice this building work , or know what the reason behind it is ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on January 16, 2022, 11:27:14 AM
Noticed yesterday the club have taken some seats out of the lower away section (next to R block) , to build what looks like a service tunnel . Anyone else notice this building work , or know what the reason behind it is ?
I noticed that in the away end. Right next to the corner flag.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on January 16, 2022, 11:34:36 AM
I was chatting to a builder who was sorting my front door and he said he’s working on a place in Water Orton where the guy owns a civil engineering company. He said the tenders have been put in for the work behind the north stand so I’d imagine it’s pretty imminent.



Would you request tenders for work you haven’t yet got planning permission for?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on January 16, 2022, 11:34:42 AM
Wonder if it's linked to North stand demolition? We'll lose a bit of the Witton too during construction you'd think.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on January 16, 2022, 11:41:25 AM
I was chatting to a builder who was sorting my front door and he said he’s working on a place in Water Orton where the guy owns a civil engineering company. He said the tenders have been put in for the work behind the north stand so I’d imagine it’s pretty imminent.



Would you request tenders for work you haven’t yet got planning permission for?
Different jurisdiction but i've seen the process done for time-sensitive work in the past. Obviously it would need to be for work that is very likely to be approved, and without any major conditions on it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on January 21, 2022, 09:44:24 AM
Read an article this morning claiming NWSE plan to buy a franchise in the MLS league. Apparently they want to form a club in Las Vegas called Las Vegas Villans.Talk of 239m investment and building a brand new stadium. I don't know what to make of this. Will it be good for us or not because if it happens it's surely take their attention away from Villa not to mention money. Does anyone know anymore about this?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on January 21, 2022, 10:41:19 AM
It hasn't done Citeh any harm.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on January 21, 2022, 10:51:49 AM
Read an article this morning claiming NWSE plan to buy a franchise in the MLS league. Apparently they want to form a club in Las Vegas called Las Vegas Villans.Talk of 239m investment and building a brand new stadium. I don't know what to make of this. Will it be good for us or not because if it happens it's surely take their attention away from Villa not to mention money. Does anyone know anymore about this?

It was discussed on this thread in early December. It's a good thing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on January 21, 2022, 11:07:45 AM
Read an article this morning claiming NWSE plan to buy a franchise in the MLS league. Apparently they want to form a club in Las Vegas called Las Vegas Villans.Talk of 239m investment and building a brand new stadium. I don't know what to make of this. Will it be good for us or not because if it happens it's surely take their attention away from Villa not to mention money. Does anyone know anymore about this?

It was discussed on this thread in early December. It's a good thing.
Oh ok thanks. Must've missed it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dave P on January 21, 2022, 11:25:13 AM
We could buy Coutinho for £33m in the summer and sell him to Las Vegas Goalkickers in 5 years time for £1bn thus helping our FFP (wink)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on January 21, 2022, 11:37:40 AM
I don't think £239 million is going to affect them very much.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on January 21, 2022, 11:52:35 AM
This is why I don't worry about the Newcastle takeover very much.  People seem to think Villa's ownership is limited to the personal wealth of Sawiris and Edens when, looking at the way they operate, it's clear they both move in the world of private investment. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on January 21, 2022, 11:53:07 AM
I don't think £239 million is going to affect them very much.

I doubt it will affect them at all, there's always the tendency to think these costs will come from the owners pockets but every penny of it will probably be borrowed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on January 21, 2022, 12:27:59 PM
I don't think £239 million is going to affect them very much.

I doubt it will affect them at all, there's always the tendency to think these costs will come from the owners pockets but every penny of it will probably be borrowed.

WAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!! Da Vile owners am borrowin money. Skint pricks!!! Skint pricks!!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Pat Mustard on January 21, 2022, 12:32:43 PM
It's just another step on the path to world domination - no harm at all in being the parent club to an MLS team, certainly it will give us some brand recognition in the US.  With Emi signing his new contract, the signing of Coutinho, and with Dougie and Buendia on the books we are already becoming a much bigger deal in South America - all of this can only help us in attracting sponsorship.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on January 21, 2022, 12:33:35 PM
I don't think £239 million is going to affect them very much.

I doubt it will affect them at all, there's always the tendency to think these costs will come from the owners pockets but every penny of it will probably be borrowed.

WAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!! Da Vile owners am borrowin money. Skint pricks!!! Skint pricks!!!

haha
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on January 21, 2022, 01:27:40 PM
The big advantage is that we could use that club to bring in talented youngsters who don't meet the work permit requirements here and then when they get international recognition we can move them over, also opens up the options for youth development for our own academy and gives access to a potentially huge pool of US youngsters.

If you were planning this out fully to give an English club the best possible opportunity to dominate you'd probably try to buy a club somewhere like Holland or Portugal as well so you could use that as a base for an EU academy.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on January 21, 2022, 02:19:04 PM
Dont Cite£ have about 8 teams all around the world?

Not done them much harm but i bet there is some FFP scam attached to it in some way

If you cannot beat them.......
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richtheholtender on January 21, 2022, 02:21:51 PM
I know it's unlikely but I hope they can figure out a way of expanding yo 50k without filling in the corners. I love the fact were unique, I don't want us to just become another fish bowl
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on January 21, 2022, 05:18:04 PM
Revert the whole of the Holte to standing. It used to hold 28k on its own
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: usav on January 21, 2022, 05:36:48 PM
Revert the whole of the Holte to standing. It used to hold 28k on its own

That doesn't solve the problem of the North Stand being shite.  It needs rebuilt no matter what.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on January 21, 2022, 06:19:46 PM
Revert the whole of the Holte to standing. It used to hold 28k on its own
Doesn't safe standing require one place per (tipped-up) seat? Standing or not it would remain at 13,500 or thereabouts.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on January 22, 2022, 06:48:58 AM
Revert the whole of the Holte to standing. It used to hold 28k on its own
Doesn't safe standing require one place per (tipped-up) seat? Standing or not it would remain at 13,500 or thereabouts.
Not sure about the rules here in the UK but the Sudtribune, Yellow Wall at Dortmund holds 24,454  for domestic games and far less for European games when it becomes all seating. Can't find any stats for its seating capacity.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on January 22, 2022, 07:34:51 AM
Yeah, think the new safe 'rail' seating would not increase capacity. 13,500 converted seats would equal the same amount standing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on January 22, 2022, 09:58:46 AM
I know it's unlikely but I hope they can figure out a way of expanding yo 50k without filling in the corners. I love the fact were unique, I don't want us to just become another fish bowl
50k is achievable by replacing the North Stand with something on the scale of the Holte End without the need to fill in the corners. I think I've read somewhere that the back row of the Holte is considered to be the maximum comfortable viewing distance so it wouldn't go higher than that just much wider than the current North Stand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on January 22, 2022, 03:13:25 PM
I know it's unlikely but I hope they can figure out a way of expanding yo 50k without filling in the corners. I love the fact were unique, I don't want us to just become another fish bowl
50k is achievable by replacing the North Stand with something on the scale of the Holte End without the need to fill in the corners. I think I've read somewhere that the back row of the Holte is considered to be the maximum comfortable viewing distance so it wouldn't go higher than that just much wider than the current North Stand.

Mr Inglis's recent intrview.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan82 on January 22, 2022, 05:11:36 PM
Surely the stand at Old Trafford and the new one at Anfield  go back, and up, further than the Holte?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on January 22, 2022, 05:21:09 PM
Surely the stand at Old Trafford and the new one at Anfield  go back, and up, further than the Holte?
Surely Wembley does too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on January 22, 2022, 06:28:08 PM
Surely the stand at Old Trafford and the new one at Anfield  go back, and up, further than the Holte?

Haven't been there but the ends at West Ham look far from the pitch as well. I've never found it to be an issue in the Upper Holte.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on January 22, 2022, 06:32:10 PM
It might be because of the capacity or for some other reason but that's what the man says, and he knows more on the subject than anyone else does.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SaddVillan on January 23, 2022, 07:20:22 PM
The Holte End is higher than any stand, anywhere.

It goes all the way to Heaven.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clive W on January 23, 2022, 07:36:53 PM
The Holte End is higher than any stand, anywhere.

It goes all the way to Heaven.

If I was young enough to know how to do those emoticon (?) things  I would

Instead you will have to make do with: -

Applause
Applause
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on January 23, 2022, 09:03:01 PM
I was always under the impression that the Holte was the largest free standing end in the whole of Europe.

I also remember the first trips to Anfield  and Mold Trafford and being disappointed on how small the kop and Stretford ends were in real life. The camera angles on MOTD made them look huge. In fact the top half of the Stretford end was actually seating.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on January 24, 2022, 03:54:00 PM
I was always under the impression that the Holte was the largest free standing end in the whole of Europe.

I also remember the first trips to Anfield  and Mold Trafford and being disappointed on how small the kop and Stretford ends were in real life. The camera angles on MOTD made them look huge. In fact the top half of the Stretford end was actually seating.
I was in Anfield once when it was empty and the Kop looked tiny compared to the Holte but it wrapped right round the sides quite a way so not really an "end" in the same sense as the Holte End. It was listed as having a capacity of 30k which I find very hard to believe.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Pat Mustard on January 24, 2022, 04:06:42 PM
I'm guessing it is the top right hand corner of the Holte that is at the maximum distance.  Although the stands at Old Trafford, Wembley etc. may be just as high, because they wrap around it means the seats in the extremities they are not as far from the pitch (and why the seats in the curves at new grounds are lower than the central seats at the back).

When you are sat right at the top right hand corner of The Holte it is noticeable that your seat is not directly facing the pitch, but is over to the side by a distance.  Which will be another reason why a new North Stand will have to wrap around if we are going to achieve the capacity we want.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on January 24, 2022, 08:16:27 PM
I'm guessing it is the top right hand corner of the Holte that is at the maximum distance.  Although the stands at Old Trafford, Wembley etc. may be just as high, because they wrap around it means the seats in the extremities they are not as far from the pitch (and why the seats in the curves at new grounds are lower than the central seats at the back).

When you are sat right at the top right hand corner of The Holte it is noticeable that your seat is not directly facing the pitch, but is over to the side by a distance.  Which will be another reason why a new North Stand will have to wrap around if we are going to achieve the capacity we want.
I don't want the stands connected but I think a stand built at the height of the Holte which curves slightly at both sides would look pretty cool, increase capacity to well over 50k and keep the four stand design that we all love so much as it's quite unique in the top flight.

EDIT: I'm just daydreaming really because it's clear we have to do something about the matchday travel chaos before we can expand the ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on January 24, 2022, 09:43:37 PM
I find it very easy to get in and out of Villa Park, parking city sode and walking for 20-25 minutes.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: bilsim on January 24, 2022, 09:56:25 PM
Until the pandemic break, me and my old man would park up just off Victoria Road and do the twenty minute or so walk down to the ground and never had any problems getting away.

Since we've been back, he's not able to walk as far and getting away from the ground is an absolute nightmare, (as I'm sure many of you know) even a couple of hours after full time the roads are still gridlocked.

Only solution we've found is sitting in the tavern until the roads have cleared, which is a pleasant but expensive and time-consuming way to go about things.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on January 24, 2022, 10:49:46 PM
I find it very easy to get in and out of Villa Park, parking city sode and walking for 20-25 minutes.
Me too I live within walking distance of the ground. I'm going mainly on the accounts I've read on this forum regarding big problems they're having getting away after the game.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on January 26, 2022, 06:35:34 PM
Contains some additional details on the Las Vegas project that I wasn't aware of e.g. Wes' involvement in high-speed rail.
https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/soccer/mls-expansion-team-in-las-vegas-step-closer-to-reality-2516474/

I like the idea of them running football specials from L.A. when the Galaxy are in town. :)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on January 26, 2022, 07:00:55 PM
I'm not sure if the travel chaos is being over stated?  Yes there's been issues with the trains, but that is partly resolvable by better queue management to ensure the trains leave full.  A few specials would of course help, but that shouldn't be impossible to sort with the right pressure.

As for parking, if you want to be able to get away there are plenty of options if you're prepared to walk a little further.  Star City and the side roads close to the A34 being the most obvious ones.  If you insist on going down the rabbit warren of streets right by the ground, then what do you expect?  I walk about 10 mins and am rarely held up in traffic more than another 10 mins.

(I know not everybody is mobile enough to walk miles, but in those circumsatnces not much can be done other than provide better facilities pre and post game)

A redeveloped stand may include good social areas where people would be happy to dwell after the game (like Spurs) and help stagger the numbers too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: exigo on January 26, 2022, 07:11:50 PM
Until the pandemic break, me and my old man would park up just off Victoria Road and do the twenty minute or so walk down to the ground and never had any problems getting away.

Since we've been back, he's not able to walk as far and getting away from the ground is an absolute nightmare, (as I'm sure many of you know) even a couple of hours after full time the roads are still gridlocked.

Only solution we've found is sitting in the tavern until the roads have cleared, which is a pleasant but expensive and time-consuming way to go about things.

Villa could pay the four blokes in high-viz at Aston station to do the same, and thousands of us would get home quicker.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Beard82 on January 26, 2022, 07:38:42 PM
Surely the stand at Old Trafford and the new one at Anfield  go back, and up, further than the Holte?

Haven't been there but the ends at West Ham look far from the pitch as well. I've never found it to be an issue in the Upper Holte.
Ive been to West Ham - and was sitting at the top of what we be Doug Ellis Upper at Villa Park - and it felt way further than anywhere I have ever sat anywhere.  The running track cerates a real strange distance
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on January 26, 2022, 08:16:45 PM
I really am excited to see some stadium plans and renders. I hope its good. Any day now?  8)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on January 26, 2022, 08:30:12 PM
Wets Ham is easily the shittest of the big new grounds. Spurs is great, and  feels like it's been designed to be as good a new football stadium as possible. West Ham feels like an athletics stadium with a football team shoehorned in as an afterthought, which I suppose is what it is.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 26, 2022, 08:32:44 PM
Spurs was purpose built for PL and NFL which they seem to have done a superb job of. Shame then that the punters have to watch Tottenham and mainly the Jacksonville Jaguars play there
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on January 26, 2022, 08:34:01 PM
A cheap stadium at that too. Open concourses, temporary seats, miles from a decent pub. It’s crap.

West ham that is, not spurs.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on January 26, 2022, 08:36:37 PM
A cheap stadium at that too. Open concourses, temporary seats, miles from a decent pub. It’s crap.

West ham that is, not spurs.
Cheap. That's Brady and the Gold brothers all over. I assume you were talking about West Ham and not Spurs.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 27, 2022, 09:31:13 AM
Spurs was purpose built for PL and NFL which they seem to have done a superb job of. Shame then that the punters have to watch Tottenham and mainly the Jacksonville Jaguars play there

A family member of mine, who isn't a Spurs fan but went there when given a ticket by his mate, said that the sound system there is so good, it's practically like being in a club. He was hugely impressed.

It looks impressive to me and I am sure the food and commercial / hospitality bits are as brilliant as people say they are (certainly compared to ours) but what disappoints me is the outside, it looks so cheap and nasty, with that multi-tone cladding that builders put on the crappy buy-to-rent apartment blocks that choke every city centre these days.

I felt more or less the same about Wembley - it just looks crap, cheap and dated on the outside. With the added extra that the concourse areas (not in the posh seat areas where they're at least a bit nicer) are so hideously stark - concrete, like they ran out of money and thought "fuck it, that'll do" whilst somehow still managing to spend the equivalent of the national debt of a medium sized country on building it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on January 27, 2022, 10:13:36 AM
I’ve been to both and I preferred White Hart Lane to the new ground

In fact I prefer all the old grounds to the new ones with the possible exception of Ayresome Park
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nev on January 27, 2022, 10:29:46 AM
Wembley lost a lot of mystique when they ditched the twin towers instead of incorporating that iconic image into the new stadium. The other thing about the stadium was the fact that it stood alone in an very flat area with little or no development, that along with the fact that it was white, made it a striking landmark and as you approached you could feel the excitement and tension ahead of a big match or gig. Fans were used to attending football grounds that were markedly different, think the backstreets around Maine Road, the residences almost invading the terraces at Highbury or our own location where the traffic passes within yards of the turnstiles.

Now it's been almost swallowed up by buildings and the area feels claustrophobic and airless, were it not for the very ordinary and unremarkable arch you wouldn't even know it was there.

The southerly approach to Villa Park, from the Lichfield Road, heading under the Expressway, the Church on the right, the park on the left and The Holte Pub ahead is magical and something I would hate to see change.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rotterdam on January 27, 2022, 10:30:58 AM
Spurs was purpose built for PL and NFL which they seem to have done a superb job of. Shame then that the punters have to watch Tottenham and mainly the Jacksonville Jaguars play there

I was at the Spurs training ground last week and it is stunning. Apparently the plan is to add an NFL standard training ground to it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on January 27, 2022, 10:55:07 AM
Wembley lost a lot of mystique when they ditched the twin towers instead of incorporating that iconic image into the new stadium. The other thing about the stadium was the fact that it stood alone in an very flat area with little or no development, that along with the fact that it was white, made it a striking landmark and as you approached you could feel the excitement and tension ahead of a big match or gig. Fans were used to attending football grounds that were markedly different, think the backstreets around Maine Road, the residences almost invading the terraces at Highbury or our own location where the traffic passes within yards of the turnstiles.

Now it's been almost swallowed up by buildings and the area feels claustrophobic and airless, were it not for the very ordinary and unremarkable arch you wouldn't even know it was there.

The southerly approach to Villa Park, from the Lichfield Road, heading under the Expressway, the Church on the right, the park on the left and The Holte Pub ahead is magical and something I would hate to see change.
Yeah, I think if we are to develop Villa Park - which personally I think is the most sensible option in the short-to-medium term future - then we should really go out for making it as striking as possible.  A landmark that people who aren't even interested in football will recognise, like Wembley was.

A big, brick-clad clocktower in the corner is the way to go IMO, like the one at Birmingham uni.  It's all about impressions, isn't it?  You hear players coming and saying that they didn't realise how big a club Villa were ... well, change that.  Make it abundantly clear that the Villa aren't the biggest club in the second city - we absolutely dominate both the city itself, and everywhere else for miles around.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on January 27, 2022, 11:15:55 AM
Yeah, I think if we are to develop Villa Park - which personally I think is the most sensible option in the short-to-medium term future - then we should really go out for making it as striking as possible.  A landmark that people who aren't even interested in football will recognise, like Wembley was.

A big, brick-clad clocktower in the corner is the way to go IMO, like the one at Birmingham uni.  It's all about impressions, isn't it? 

Not sold on a clocktower but I would like us to bring back the lion rampant on a new stand. For me the one on the old Trinity was one of the most iconic things at Villa Park.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nev on January 27, 2022, 11:35:27 AM
Ellis wanted that approach to be called Villa Way, to ape that at Wembley but his plan included demolishing the Holte Pub the fucking vandal.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: usav on January 27, 2022, 01:16:02 PM
I was at the last home game (Man Utd) and this is only my perspective, but to me little had changed in 30 years in terms of getting away from the ground after the game - and I mean that in a good way - we had no problems.  We parked in our usual spot the other side of Lichfield Road by Thimblemill, it's a longer walk, but once back at the car you get away easily.  I'm not as familiar with the North side of the ground, so can't talk to that.  However, anyone parking on the Southern side within the Lichfiled road and the ground is asking for trouble IMO.

The only issue we did have was the stupid lorries parked outside the church blocking the road and funneling everyone through a narrow gap.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Walmley_Villa on January 27, 2022, 02:17:47 PM

The only issue we did have was the stupid lorries parked outside the church blocking the road and funneling everyone through a narrow gap.


Tbf they are there to stop any looney tunes mowing us down in a car...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: usav on January 27, 2022, 02:28:54 PM

The only issue we did have was the stupid lorries parked outside the church blocking the road and funneling everyone through a narrow gap.


Tbf they are there to stop any looney tunes mowing us down in a car...

There has to be a better way.  It almost caused a crush and then people are trying to scramble over the bed of the lorry.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: rob_bridge on January 27, 2022, 02:38:14 PM
Wets Ham is easily the shittest of the big new grounds. Spurs is great, and  feels like it's been designed to be as good a new football stadium as possible. West Ham feels like an athletics stadium with a football team shoehorned in as an afterthought, which I suppose is what it is.

Been to the athletics there and it was good - didn't look or feel like anything like a football ground

Wembley best of the new ones though not been to Spuds
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Smith on January 27, 2022, 04:01:40 PM

The only issue we did have was the stupid lorries parked outside the church blocking the road and funneling everyone through a narrow gap.


Tbf they are there to stop any looney tunes mowing us down in a car...

There has to be a better way.  It almost caused a crush and then people are trying to scramble over the bed of the lorry.

Not sure how as it needs to be something that can be moved in and out fairly quickly. They’ve been used for a few years now but I’ve never noticed any major issues, more an inconvenience than a hazard.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on January 27, 2022, 04:28:52 PM
Yeah, up until recently I always walked back that way, past the church, never had an issue getting through the flatbeds.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dave P on January 27, 2022, 04:29:44 PM

The only issue we did have was the stupid lorries parked outside the church blocking the road and funneling everyone through a narrow gap.


Tbf they are there to stop any looney tunes mowing us down in a car...

There has to be a better way.  It almost caused a crush and then people are trying to scramble over the bed of the lorry.

Not sure how as it needs to be something that can be moved in and out fairly quickly. They’ve been used for a few years now but I’ve never noticed any major issues, more an inconvenience than a hazard.

It would help if they stayed on the road, but they are now blocking a good chunk of the path.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: astonvilla82 on January 27, 2022, 04:50:50 PM

The only issue we did have was the stupid lorries parked outside the church blocking the road and funneling everyone through a narrow gap.


Tbf they are there to stop any looney tunes mowing us down in a car...

There has to be a better way.  It almost caused a crush and then people are trying to scramble over the bed of the lorry.

Not sure how as it needs to be something that can be moved in and out fairly quickly. They’ve been used for a few years now but I’ve never noticed any major issues, more an inconvenience than a hazard.

It would help if they stayed on the road, but they are now blocking a good chunk of the path.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 27, 2022, 04:52:31 PM
The Blues ground is one of these really unique architectural designs where no one sits in the lower tiers of the ground the idea being everyone gets a better view from higher up. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on January 27, 2022, 04:55:25 PM
The Blues ground is one of these really unique architectural designs where no one sits in the lower tiers of the ground the idea being everyone gets a better view from higher up. 

Yep - the Blues is the only ground in the country where you pay extra for a restricted view.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: astonvilla82 on January 27, 2022, 04:59:51 PM
Another major problem is parked cars and taxi's at the traffic lights by the flyover causing people to walk into the road by Queens Road /Aston Hall Road junction
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on January 27, 2022, 06:20:15 PM

The only issue we did have was the stupid lorries parked outside the church blocking the road and funneling everyone through a narrow gap.


Tbf they are there to stop any looney tunes mowing us down in a car...
I completely understand the logic but vehicles can drive right up to that point from two different directions. It's a deterrent at best
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 27, 2022, 07:38:13 PM
One thing those flatbed lorries do do, they ruin one of the most lovely approaches to a stadium in English football.

And I mean that without any Villa-biased nostalgia, it really is quite the view.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on January 27, 2022, 08:38:41 PM
Rather than lorries I’d prefer if they put in some removable safety barriers (ring of steel type thing) like they have in the City Centre if they’re so worried about nut jobs in vehicles mowing us all down.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on January 27, 2022, 09:31:49 PM

The only issue we did have was the stupid lorries parked outside the church blocking the road and funneling everyone through a narrow gap.


Tbf they are there to stop any looney tunes mowing us down in a car...
I completely understand the logic but vehicles can drive right up to that point from two different directions. It's a deterrent at best

Isn't that how the African Car Reverser was born?!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on January 27, 2022, 09:42:38 PM
The African Car Reverser is a forum legend  8)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Pat Mustard on January 28, 2022, 08:20:04 AM
Rather than lorries I’d prefer if they put in some removable safety barriers (ring of steel type thing) like they have in the City Centre if they’re so worried about nut jobs in vehicles mowing us all down.

The problem is that with the density of the crowd coming out of the stadium, they need something that is visible from a distance so has to be something that can clearly be seen above head height.  If they just used the removable barriers they have in town, people wouldn't necessarily see them until they walk into them in a large crowd, at least the trucks can be seen from a way back.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nev on January 28, 2022, 08:24:37 AM
We head north along Trinity Road and it's not the trucks that bother me but cars either parked up or driving away from the ground. I seem to recall that traffic was stopped for a short while to allow the greater density of the crowd to disperse?
The run up to the Rat Pan is particularly bad.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: UK Redsox on January 28, 2022, 02:45:51 PM
Rather than lorries I’d prefer if they put in some removable safety barriers (ring of steel type thing) like they have in the City Centre if they’re so worried about nut jobs in vehicles mowing us all down.

The problem is that with the density of the crowd coming out of the stadium, they need something that is visible from a distance so has to be something that can clearly be seen above head height.  If they just used the removable barriers they have in town, people wouldn't necessarily see them until they walk into them in a large crowd, at least the trucks can be seen from a way back.

The trucks can also be moved out of the way quicker than barriers in case of emergency
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: UK Redsox on January 28, 2022, 02:46:53 PM
The African Car Reverser is a forum legend  8)

....and yet the minibus driver who nearly reversed over Legion* is lost to the sands of time

(* well, and me I suppose. Although I'd have blamed Leeg)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on February 02, 2022, 10:02:57 AM
I don't know if this has been posted elsewhere but I see they've got round to filling those boards outside the Holte which have had "Villa's greatest 11 coming soon" on them for ages. It's the European Cup final team in the white kit. Each player in action during the game. I think I saw Mortimer holding the trophy aloft but I was half asleep when I drove past.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 02, 2022, 10:12:08 AM
I don't know if this has been posted elsewhere but I see they've got round to filling those boards outside the Holte which have had "Villa's greatest 11 coming soon" on them for ages. It's the European Cup final team in the white kit. Each player in action during the game. I think I saw Mortimer holding the trophy aloft but I was half asleep when I drove past.

I was wondering about those at the last game. They were starting to look a bit dog eared they'd been up for so long.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Moonraker on February 02, 2022, 10:12:43 AM
Put up just before the man utd game.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on February 02, 2022, 10:23:58 AM
Yep, they made a big deal of it before the Man U game.  Had a handful of the 81 team in attendance to tell a few stories about that season and Purslow, Lange and McGinn (suspended for that game) were there too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on February 02, 2022, 01:15:52 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/xjHGhFG/PXL-20220115-163656686.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xjHGhFG)


They launched the 40th anniversary with the wall before ManUtd. A certain ex captain was in charge of the mic when I went past...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on February 02, 2022, 01:40:30 PM
They launched the 40th anniversary with the wall before ManUtd. A certain ex captain was in charge of the mic when I went past...

Does it have Rimmer or Spink as the goalkeeper?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on February 02, 2022, 01:52:53 PM
They launched the 40th anniversary with the wall before ManUtd. A certain ex captain was in charge of the mic when I went past...

Does it have Rimmer or Spink as the goalkeeper?
Both, which I think was a good solution.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on February 02, 2022, 02:03:11 PM
They launched the 40th anniversary with the wall before ManUtd. A certain ex captain was in charge of the mic when I went past...

Does it have Rimmer or Spink as the goalkeeper?

Both, which I think was a good solution.

Good to hear, I was a bit concerned when I read it was only 11 players as both deserve credit. Given there was only one sub used and he proved so key they probably should have gone with 12 panels.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on February 02, 2022, 03:57:57 PM
I think there are only suitable 11 spaces on the wall to place the images, so it was a bit of luck more than anything.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: DB on February 07, 2022, 10:26:58 AM
So the UK and Ire are going for a joint bid for the 2028 Euros. Then VP needs to get sorted with any re-developments/expansion, if we going to get matches. More stadiums to choose from with Sco Wales and Ire in the mix, but you would think the 2nd largest city / urban area would be in there.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 07, 2022, 10:42:21 AM
So the UK and Ire are going for a joint bid for the 2028 Euros. Then VP needs to get sorted with any re-developments/expansion, if we going to get matches. More stadiums to choose from with Sco Wales and Ire in the mix, but you would think the 2nd largest city / urban area would be in there.

If it's the whole UK then there's a lot of stadiums to go around. You'd think Wembley, the Principality in Wales, the Aviva in Ireland and Hampden would be first choice being national stadiums, then take your pick from everything else over 50K, which will hopefully include us by then.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on February 07, 2022, 10:51:23 AM
If the organisers can find a way to ignore the benefits of hosting games in the best situated, best connected and just best full stop part of the country, you can be sure they will.

"We decided to use both Newcastle and Sunderland as venues because, we'll, they've had it hard up there and Necastle are everyone's second favourite club, aren't they? And Southampton is needed so that Vlad can moor his yacht. Wembley will host 3 games a day because we're still paying it off"
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on February 07, 2022, 10:54:22 AM
So the UK and Ire are going for a joint bid for the 2028 Euros. Then VP needs to get sorted with any re-developments/expansion, if we going to get matches. More stadiums to choose from with Sco Wales and Ire in the mix, but you would think the 2nd largest city / urban area would be in there.

If it's the whole UK then there's a lot of stadiums to go around. You'd think Wembley, the Principality in Wales, the Aviva in Ireland and Hampden would be first choice being national stadiums, then take your pick from everything else over 50K, which will hopefully include us by then.

Wouldn't be surprised if Croke Park was made available for a tournament like that especially if there's no viable option in the North. I'm sure UEFA wouldn't be averse to using the third largest stadium in Europe and two stadiums in Ireland seems about right. In Scotland they may also use Parkhead (or Murrayfield if they don't want to annoy half of the Old Firm and want another city involved.).

Probably the right decision to change tack as the Centenary World Cup should be in South America and the Euro bid's more likely to succeed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 07, 2022, 11:25:23 AM
I thought the Irish got a bit angsty about using Croke Park for non GAA stuff?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on February 07, 2022, 11:35:37 AM
Still a few too many die-hard liúdramáns in the GAA but it's already been used for rugby and soccer and most people are fans of both codes of football. For a prestigious one-off tournament I think they could be persuaded by the Irish Government (and public opinion) to allow it if it $uit$ and would mean 80,000+ fans coming into Dublin on 3 or 4 occasions.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 07, 2022, 11:52:53 AM
They get away with rugby I think because it's All-Ireland? Can't see them wanting separate Ireland and Northern Ireland teams playing there. You know more about this stuff than me though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on February 07, 2022, 12:02:01 PM
Still a few too many die-hard liúdramáns in the GAA but it's already been used for rugby and soccer and most people are fans of both codes of football. For a prestigious one-off tournament I think they could be persuaded by the Irish Government (and public opinion) to allow it if it $uit$ and would mean 80,000+ fans coming into Dublin on 3 or 4 occasions.

'Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others' - Groucho Marx
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on February 07, 2022, 12:03:38 PM
Still a few too many die-hard liúdramáns in the GAA but it's already been used for rugby and soccer and most people are fans of both codes of football. For a prestigious one-off tournament I think they could be persuaded by the Irish Government (and public opinion) to allow it if it $uit$ and would mean 80,000+ fans coming into Dublin on 3 or 4 occasions.

Never thought I'd see the word liúdramáns on H&V...ar fheabhas ar fad !!

But yeah, once the GAA allowed the foreign game to be played at Croke Park for €€€ a precedent was set.

As for the Villa, our geographic location alone should put us in with a decent shout. The biggest club/ground in the midlands; nowhere is better positioned with the infrastructure to match in relation to Glasgow/Cardiff/Dublin/London.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on February 07, 2022, 12:04:24 PM
Still a few too many die-hard liúdramáns in the GAA but it's already been used for rugby and soccer and most people are fans of both codes of football. For a prestigious one-off tournament I think they could be persuaded by the Irish Government (and public opinion) to allow it if it $uit$ and would mean 80,000+ fans coming into Dublin on 3 or 4 occasions.

'Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others' - Groucho Marx

Believe it or not, that's exactly what Martin O'Neill said to Gabby Agbonlahor on air last week (see Agbonlahor thread)!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 07, 2022, 12:32:27 PM
VP could probably host games as it is unless there's a new rule that stadia have to be over 50k now to host major championship games.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on February 07, 2022, 12:58:36 PM
Whether there's a rule in place or not I think VP needs to be 50k+ to host as the competition's so stiff.

Obviously all 4 nations will be represented (I don't think NI has a stadium of any note?) and I can see them having groups of stadia to make security and travel potentially easier.

So you end up with:

Wembley
Hampden
Millenium
Aviva

Plus the North West stadia:

OT
Anfield
Etihad

And the big London venues:

Spurs
Emirates
West Ham

That gives you 10 and Euro 2020 only had 11 venues.  When you throw in the potential for Croke Park, Celtic and Ibrox and I can see VP being overlooked if the capacity isn't north of 50k.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Axl Rose on February 07, 2022, 01:01:07 PM
Molineux for the final of course.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 07, 2022, 01:02:28 PM
You'll have the new Everton stadium by then as well. Would think that either Newcastle or Sunderland would get games too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 07, 2022, 01:06:40 PM
At the moment UEFA have a minimum capaity criteria of 30,000 but I assume they want the majority to have way more than that. For Euro 24 in Germany, the smallest is the Red Bull Arena with 43,000 capacity, with everything else c. 49K and above.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on February 07, 2022, 01:11:32 PM
Whether there's a rule in place or not I think VP needs to be 50k+ to host as the competition's so stiff.

Obviously all 4 nations will be represented (I don't think NI has a stadium of any note?) and I can see them having groups of stadia to make security and travel potentially easier.

So you end up with:

Wembley
Hampden
Millenium
Aviva

Plus the North West stadia:

OT
Anfield
Etihad

And the big London venues:

Spurs
Emirates
West Ham

That gives you 10 and Euro 2020 only had 11 venues.  When you throw in the potential for Croke Park, Celtic and Ibrox and I can see VP being overlooked if the capacity isn't north of 50k.
Yeah, I agree there.  With it being held between England, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland - I don't think a stadium with <50k capacity could (or should) be used.  There'd be no need, you've got plenty of grounds that are above 50k:


Sorry, but no way are you picking Villa Park on that list - it's too small in comparison to the other stadiums, even if you take out the two non-football grounds in the list.  (For completeness, Twickenham would go down as join 2nd in that list - 82k)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on February 07, 2022, 01:13:05 PM
Whether there's a rule in place or not I think VP needs to be 50k+ to host as the competition's so stiff.

Obviously all 4 nations will be represented (I don't think NI has a stadium of any note?) and I can see them having groups of stadia to make security and travel potentially easier.

So you end up with:

Wembley
Hampden
Millenium
Aviva

Plus the North West stadia:

OT
Anfield
Etihad

And the big London venues:

Spurs
Emirates
West Ham

That gives you 10 and Euro 2020 only had 11 venues.  When you throw in the potential for Croke Park, Celtic and Ibrox and I can see VP being overlooked if the capacity isn't north of 50k.
Yeah, I agree there.  With it being held between England, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland - I don't think a stadium with <50k capacity could (or should) be used.  There'd be no need, you've got plenty of grounds that are above 50k:

  • Wembley (90k)
  • Croke Park (82k)
  • Old Trafford (74k)
  • Millennium Stadium (74k)
  • Murrayfield (67k)
  • London Stadium (62.5k)
  • Spurs (62.5k)
  • Celtic Park (60k)
  • Emirates (60k)
  • Emptihad (55k)
  • Kings Dock / Everton (55k)
  • Anfield (53k)
  • St James Park (52.5k)
  • Hampden Park (52k)
  • Aviva Stadium (51.5k)
  • Ibrox (51k)
  • Stadium of Light (49k)
  • Villa Park (42.5k)

Sorry, but no way are you picking Villa Park on that list - it's too small in comparison to the other stadiums, even if you take out the two non-football grounds in the list.

And interestingly given that list, even if you raise VP to 50k it doesn't change the conclusion.  It needs to be a conscious political or operational decision for VP to end up as a host venue.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nelly on February 07, 2022, 01:13:21 PM
Would Arsenal or Spurs be looking to host games too? There are a lot of big stadia now and if 50k is a factor, we're obviously playing catchup.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 07, 2022, 01:16:25 PM
Surely physical location needs to be a factor. It's not just size of stadium, it's other facilities like transport and local infrastructure like hotels and the like. Not having anything between London and the North West would be a disgrace.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on February 07, 2022, 01:18:04 PM
Exactly. Brum is Best.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on February 07, 2022, 01:26:37 PM
Instictively we all want Villa Park used, but actually is it that a big a deal? And what do the we get out of it? I seem to remember talk previously of how in effect the stadium becomes part of Uefa/Fifa for the duration and day-to-day Villa stuff like the ticket office and club shop have to fuck off.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Pat Mustard on February 07, 2022, 01:27:36 PM
Whether there's a rule in place or not I think VP needs to be 50k+ to host as the competition's so stiff.

Obviously all 4 nations will be represented (I don't think NI has a stadium of any note?) and I can see them having groups of stadia to make security and travel potentially easier.

So you end up with:

Wembley
Hampden
Millenium
Aviva

Plus the North West stadia:

OT
Anfield
Etihad

And the big London venues:

Spurs
Emirates
West Ham

That gives you 10 and Euro 2020 only had 11 venues.  When you throw in the potential for Croke Park, Celtic and Ibrox and I can see VP being overlooked if the capacity isn't north of 50k.
Yeah, I agree there.  With it being held between England, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland - I don't think a stadium with <50k capacity could (or should) be used.  There'd be no need, you've got plenty of grounds that are above 50k:

  • Wembley (90k)
  • Croke Park (82k)
  • Old Trafford (74k)
  • Millennium Stadium (74k)
  • Murrayfield (67k)
  • London Stadium (62.5k)
  • Spurs (62.5k)
  • Celtic Park (60k)
  • Emirates (60k)
  • Emptihad (55k)
  • Kings Dock / Everton (55k)
  • Anfield (53k)
  • St James Park (52.5k)
  • Hampden Park (52k)
  • Aviva Stadium (51.5k)
  • Ibrox (51k)
  • Stadium of Light (49k)
  • Villa Park (42.5k)

Sorry, but no way are you picking Villa Park on that list - it's too small in comparison to the other stadiums, even if you take out the two non-football grounds in the list.

And interestingly given that list, even if you raise VP to 50k it doesn't change the conclusion.  It needs to be a conscious political or operational decision for VP to end up as a host venue.

However, there is usually a rule in place that you can only have one city that has more than one stadium, which immediately knocks out a chunk of those - you will only get Old Trafford or the Etihad, not both, the same with Glasgow.  On top of that, there are also requirements about the amount of accommodation available in a host city, which probably rules out places like Sunderland and a redeveloped King Power.

In reality, I reckon the final list will probably look like:

London - Wembley
London - Olympic Stadium
Glasgow - Hampden (redeveloped) or Celtic Park
Edinburgh - Murrayfield
Cardiff - Millennium Stadium
Dublin - Aviva Stadium
Belfast - new stadium (if it is a UK and Ireland bid then Belfast will be included somehow)
Manchester - Old Trafford
Liverpool - Anfield or Bramley Moore dock
Newcastle - St James Park
Birmingham - Villa Park
Leeds - Elland Road (redeveloped)

There might be a call to get a couple of other grounds in to get a better geographical spread (e.g. Brighton or Southampton), but in the main I can only see the biggest cities being chosen to host games.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 07, 2022, 01:28:45 PM
Prestige, presumably some UEFA ill-gotten, big boost for local businesses, will piss off all of our smaller neighbours.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on February 07, 2022, 01:32:53 PM
Prestige, presumably some UEFA ill-gotten, big boost for local businesses, will piss off all of our smaller neighbours.

Yeah, I suppose. You're right that it would be a disgrace if the midlands were overlooked, but would it be a surprise?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 07, 2022, 01:33:05 PM
I wouldn't be hugely surprised to see the Etihad as the Manchester ground rather than Old Trafford given that the latter apparently is a decrepit cess pit these days.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on February 07, 2022, 01:33:51 PM
'these days'?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on February 07, 2022, 01:40:38 PM
However, there is usually a rule in place that you can only have one city that has more than one stadium, which immediately knocks out a chunk of those - you will only get Old Trafford or the Etihad, not both, the same with Glasgow.  On top of that, there are also requirements about the amount of accommodation available in a host city, which probably rules out places like Sunderland and a redeveloped King Power.

In reality, I reckon the final list will probably look like:

London - Wembley
London - Olympic Stadium
Glasgow - Hampden (redeveloped) or Celtic Park
Edinburgh - Murrayfield
Cardiff - Millennium Stadium
Dublin - Aviva Stadium
Belfast - new stadium (if it is a UK and Ireland bid then Belfast will be included somehow)
Manchester - Old Trafford
Liverpool - Anfield or Bramley Moore dock
Newcastle - St James Park
Birmingham - Villa Park
Leeds - Elland Road (redeveloped)

There might be a call to get a couple of other grounds in to get a better geographical spread (e.g. Brighton or Southampton), but in the main I can only see the biggest cities being chosen to host games.
They did have plans to build a big multi-sport stadium at the site of the old Maze Prison, but the NIFA (or rather, the supporters) campaigned against it in favour of staying at Windsor Park.  Casement Park (Gaelic Football) is just undergoing renovation to take the capacity to ~34k, so guess they're neither going to be moving from there in the near future, nor extending it much beyond that capacity - they had plans to make it 40k capacity, but they were rejected.

Think the NIFA need to either redevelop Windsor Park or move away, though, because there's some structural problem or other with one of the stands.  It's a bit of a mess really, you could imagine there being pretty decent justification for building a ~40k capacity stadium in Belfast - but it'd need to be a multi-sport affair, and I'm not sure that'll happen.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on February 07, 2022, 01:45:42 PM
On the old version of Champ Manager I play, the Euro's get awarded to Ireland (from the bid from a few years back) at the start of the game but the stadiums haven't been updated, so you end up with England vs Germany in the semis at the Showground in Sligo in front of 8,354 people.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: DB on February 07, 2022, 02:11:43 PM
Just hope our owners get the plans confirmed for Villa Park ready for 2028....if it comes here of course.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on February 07, 2022, 02:32:19 PM
I don't care if they are held at our ground or not, other than the potential knock-on effect of improving travel arrangements to the ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: DB on February 07, 2022, 02:37:18 PM
Well, I wouldn't mind going to a game Drummond, but yeah, if it's the driver to improve things in and around VP then great.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on February 07, 2022, 02:38:41 PM
Surely physical location needs to be a factor. It's not just size of stadium, it's other facilities like transport and local infrastructure like hotels and the like. Not having anything between London and the North West would be a disgrace.

You keep telling us VP is the worst football stadium in the history of football to get away from at the end of the game!!   ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 07, 2022, 02:40:56 PM
Surely physical location needs to be a factor. It's not just size of stadium, it's other facilities like transport and local infrastructure like hotels and the like. Not having anything between London and the North West would be a disgrace.

You keep telling us VP is the worst football stadium in the history of football to get away from at the end of the game!!   ;)

It is! Getting to Brum and staying somewhere nice is a bit easier than Newcastle though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on February 07, 2022, 02:42:55 PM
Location and number of corporate seats will be a big advantage for Villa Park - you could theoretically upgrade a couple more thousand seats in the Trinity and accommodate them in the hospitality areas in the stand.
 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on February 07, 2022, 02:51:47 PM
Well, I wouldn't mind going to a game Drummond, but yeah, if it's the driver to improve things in and around VP then great.

Yeah, I get that, I live in Yorkshire though, so I still don't mind! :-)

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on February 07, 2022, 03:07:40 PM
In London they could also add in Twickenham
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Exeter 77 on February 07, 2022, 03:11:33 PM
In London they could also add in Twickenham
Not sure the RFU would like that. Whenever the subject of possible football at Twickenham has been suggested before the answer has been a firm 'No' if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on February 07, 2022, 03:16:49 PM
In London they could also add in Twickenham
Not sure the RFU would like that. Whenever the subject of possible football at Twickenham has been suggested before the answer has been a firm 'No' if I remember correctly.

And they’re restricted on the number of events they’re allowed to have due to Planning covenants from the council.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 07, 2022, 03:25:16 PM
If we had any games in any tournament in any sport you can guarantee that after the match there'd be trains lined up as far back as Walsall.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Exeter 77 on February 07, 2022, 03:45:06 PM
If we had any games in any tournament in any sport you can guarantee that after the match there'd be trains lined up as far back as Walsall.
How did it work with the Rugby World Cup a few years ago? I thought about going to one of those games and then saw the ticket prices! The tickets for the games at the Olympics at the Ricoh were far more sensibly priced.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on February 07, 2022, 04:01:53 PM
Twickenham was an absolute nightmare together back from when I went to NFL there.

Would add that Hampden is a soulless bowl. Think Ibrox and Celtic Park are both much better. Olympic Stadium is meant to be dreadful for watching football too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 07, 2022, 04:19:16 PM
If we had any games in any tournament in any sport you can guarantee that after the match there'd be trains lined up as far back as Walsall.
How did it work with the Rugby World Cup a few years ago? I thought about going to one of those games and then saw the ticket prices! The tickets for the games at the Olympics at the Ricoh were far more sensibly priced.

Plenty of extra trains and the only problem was getting the South Africans to leave the ground as they were enjoying themselves too much
 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on February 07, 2022, 04:32:26 PM
This probably goes back to the fact the time and date of the game is fixed months in advance. Whereas for home games they are only confirmed six weeks in advance - which is no good for staff rotas!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 07, 2022, 08:46:01 PM
At the moment UEFA have a minimum capaity criteria of 30,000 but I assume they want the majority to have way more than that. For Euro 24 in Germany, the smallest is the Red Bull Arena with 43,000 capacity, with everything else c. 49K and above.

Euro 2020 was a bit of an odd tournament with the venues spread out so they were all going to be big capacities.

Going back to euro 2016 in France and I can remember Lens ground hosting England-Wales and that was only 38k (reminds me of VP aswell for those who have been to watch them with the four separate stands).

I think we'd be fine regardless.

Back in euro 96 it was IIRC Wembley, VP, Old Trafford, Anfield, St James, City Ground, Elland Road and Hillsborough.

Last three would have no chance of hosting games now imo as City Ground is too small and the other two need major upgrades.

Isn't there some rule aswell cities aren't allowed more than two venues so it would be Wembley and perhaps one other venue to host and both Manchester grounds wouldn't be allowed.

Add in Cardiff, Glasgow, Edinburgh and Belfast getting games and it would be pretty fun tournament.

Think with VP capacity there's probably a rule you can only host QF onwards if ground is 50k plus so that's where it could be issue but probably 3 group games and last 16 tie would be decent enough as you'd see some excellent teams and players like in euro 96.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Meanwood Villa on February 07, 2022, 08:50:26 PM
Won't UEFA tell us to do one after all the problems at the final?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on February 07, 2022, 09:48:09 PM
Villa Park is trending on Twitter  ???
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Arsey on February 07, 2022, 10:23:21 PM
mute point, there is no way England is hosting any major football tournament for a very long time after that shit show at Wembley last year.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 07, 2022, 10:23:59 PM
Villa Park is trending on Twitter  ???

Betfair have asked which grounds should host a Euros game. You're probably seeing the answers to that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 07, 2022, 10:36:13 PM
mute point, there is no way England is hosting any major football tournament for a very long time after that shit show at Wembley last year.
England / UK will deliver a huge amount of cash and dwarf any other bid.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 07, 2022, 10:52:14 PM
Won't UEFA tell us to do one after all the problems at the final?

Wembley is hosting CL final in 2024 I think so Uefa couldn't care less as Wembley is always a big corporate jolly for them.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Meanwood Villa on February 07, 2022, 10:56:22 PM
Won't UEFA tell us to do one after all the problems at the final?

Wembley is hosting CL final in 2024 I think so Uefa couldn't care less as Wembley is always a big corporate jolly for them.

Fair enough, I didn't know that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on February 07, 2022, 10:59:38 PM
Won't UEFA tell us to do one after all the problems at the final?

Wembley is hosting CL final in 2024 I think so Uefa couldn't care less as Wembley is always a big corporate jolly for them.

Wasn't aware of that, that'll be handy for us.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richtheholtender on February 08, 2022, 01:02:09 PM
Don't know if it has been posted elsewhere but what has this kid become?


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10487383/Manchester-City-England-star-Jack-Grealish-turned-away-bar-drunk.html
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on February 08, 2022, 01:06:05 PM
Looks like we've dodged a bullet :)
Do I want him back?....No chance.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villatillidie1982 on February 09, 2022, 12:56:12 AM
Won't UEFA tell us to do one after all the problems at the final?

Wembley is hosting CL final in 2024 I think so Uefa couldn't care less as Wembley is always a big corporate jolly for them.
So when we get to the CL final it'll be at Wembley.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 02, 2022, 12:38:33 PM
New North Stand and increased capacity to over 50k on its way. https://twitter.com/greggevans40/status/1498992859621564421

Great news, look forward to seeing the design.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lsvilla on March 02, 2022, 03:07:07 PM
Won't UEFA tell us to do one after all the problems at the final?

Wembley is hosting CL final in 2024 I think so Uefa couldn't care less as Wembley is always a big corporate jolly for them.
So when we get to the CL final it'll be at Wembley.
Typical. Wait 40 years to do another EC final in style having been on a student budget to Rotterdam and all I get is a bloody Chilterns line train.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nelly on March 02, 2022, 03:52:56 PM
New North Stand and increased capacity to over 50k on its way. https://twitter.com/greggevans40/status/1498992859621564421

Great news, look forward to seeing the design.

Wow! Thanks for this. Very exciting.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SaddVillan on March 02, 2022, 04:20:58 PM
Mirror image of the Holte End
Claret and blue equivalent of Dortmund''s "Yellow Wall"
Wrap around to the Trinity Road and Witton Lane stands
Redbrick
Glass and steel
Mosaics

What will we get I wonder?



Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on March 02, 2022, 04:25:46 PM
Can't find the VP-Redevelopment discussion thread, but here is the biggest update in years from the club on stadium refurb/expansion. Note first phase capacity increase to 50k...how bigger will further phases take it to?

Quote

Preliminary designs have been created to transform our iconic home at Villa Park including building a new North Stand, upgrading and expanding our hospitality facilities and creating an entirely new venue to bring our retail and merchandising activities, as well as other entertainment activities, into the 21st century. Capacity of the stadium would increase to over 50,000 upon completion of the first phase.

The plans would enable more Villa fans to enjoy a newly enhanced matchday experience as well as being a catalyst for change in our community and neighbourhood.

The Club will be embarking on a full public consultation with all stakeholders over the coming months to help shape the planning application and to ensure that the proposals fully acknowledge and incorporate the needs of the local community, the City and the wider West Midlands region.

We have appointed a full multidisciplinary design and engineering team to develop finalised designs and plans in time for a summer 2022 planning application.

Our new central Birmingham satellite academy at Brookvale, adjacent to Villa Park, has received planning permission and we are expecting construction to begin shortly.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richtheholtender on March 02, 2022, 04:27:47 PM
New North Stand and increased capacity to over 50k on its way. https://twitter.com/greggevans40/status/1498992859621564421

Great news, look forward to seeing the design.



Wonder how long it will take
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nev on March 02, 2022, 04:34:53 PM
Whatever it is, it needs to have a big AV marked out in the seats and nothing else as a nod to the past.

And perhaps no draft beer as a further heritage feature.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: thick_mike on March 02, 2022, 04:52:43 PM
AV floodlights please
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Smith on March 02, 2022, 05:04:23 PM
No roof and a football shaped programme stall at the top please.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dave P on March 02, 2022, 05:07:40 PM
Oh you'll ALL want season tickets in the North Stand now wont you?  Well I was here first when it was shit. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on March 02, 2022, 05:25:09 PM
It will be fascinating to see the design. A new North Stand will have to hold minimum 15k to push the capacity past 50k. I really hope this can be achieved without filling in the corner with the Trinity. Something at the height of the Holte  but wider would do it.
Will be interesting to see what plans they have for improving the local infrastructure but it looks like they've got plans. Exciting times. God I love our owners.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on March 02, 2022, 05:27:05 PM
Oh you'll ALL want season tickets in the North Stand now wont you?  Well I was here first when it was shit.
I'm in there on Saturday for the first time since the 5-5 with Forest. I hereby stake my claim.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: N'ZMAV on March 02, 2022, 05:35:38 PM
Oh you'll ALL want season tickets in the North Stand now wont you?  Well I was here first when it was shit. 
you was there when it was cheaper :D
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Broadlee on March 02, 2022, 05:48:06 PM
Like with the concept villa shirts, any one on here able to create a new Witton lane concept stand that takes us to 50000 seat?

We have talented people out there so come on give us your design..
i like the crap attempts also  ;) ;D ;D



(https://i.ibb.co/JKDSTsz/villa-o.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JKDSTsz)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ez on March 02, 2022, 06:44:35 PM
That will make me feel old. Pulling down a stand I remember being built.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on March 02, 2022, 06:54:36 PM
That will make me feel old. Pulling down a stand I remember being built.
Dont worry about it. Wolves have built 2 stands at the North bank in the same time period. Their fans must feel ancient.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rico on March 02, 2022, 06:57:33 PM
Really excited to see the plans. Pretty confident that knowing our owners it will be something special. UTV
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villa Lew on March 02, 2022, 07:29:50 PM
No criticism of the present owners, but it's not before time, we've been talking about this for probably 10 years or so, great news.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on March 02, 2022, 07:34:27 PM
Like with the concept villa shirts, any one on here able to create a new Witton lane concept stand that takes us to 50000 seat?

We have talented people out there so come on give us your design..
i like the crap attempts also  ;) ;D ;D



(https://i.ibb.co/JKDSTsz/villa-o.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JKDSTsz)


This is the only ‘concept’ I’ve seen.
Nice though.

https://twitter.com/DanB5826/status/1499105292151406599/photo/1
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on March 02, 2022, 07:35:26 PM
Any idea of the timescales involved?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on March 02, 2022, 07:40:15 PM
Villa Park is already a triggers broom to me as no stand remains since i first went in the 70's
so knocking down the North Stand will not bring a tear the way the Holte and Trinity did

50-55 capacity is ideal, i personally would want it any bigger,
and for me its the way to go, iv'e never been in favour of moving
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villa Lew on March 02, 2022, 08:00:33 PM
If we do eventually make the Champions League, then 55k will not be big enough.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on March 02, 2022, 08:15:14 PM
Down with this sort of thing
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 02, 2022, 08:36:39 PM
If we do eventually make the Champions League, then 55k will not be big enough.

Chelski have done alright in the Champions League with a capacity of less than 41k. Let's get bored with being in the CL before we start worrying unduly about having a capacity of over 55k.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 02, 2022, 08:41:23 PM
If we do eventually make the Champions League, then 55k will not be big enough.
OMG it’s so short sighted because we are so close to being a regular in the Champions League.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Richard E on March 02, 2022, 08:44:51 PM
New Brighton Tower FC had an 80,000 capacity stadium and you can’t say they were a bigger club than us. Sort it out NSWE
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: BC Villain on March 02, 2022, 09:01:14 PM
That will make me feel old. Pulling down a stand I remember being built.
Dont worry about it. Wolves have built 2 stands at the North bank in the same time period. Their fans must feel ancient.

The ones that saw them win anything are ancient.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villa Lew on March 02, 2022, 09:08:24 PM
If we do eventually make the Champions League, then 55k will not be big enough.
OMG it’s so short sighted because we are so close to being a regular in the Champions League.

I am not criticising the owners, obviously I'm not talking about now, I'm talking about in maybe 10 years time, because that is the owners goal and if we are regulars in the CL then, the owners then would probably be looking to increase the capacity further.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Exeter 77 on March 02, 2022, 09:12:08 PM
New Brighton Tower FC had an 80,000 capacity stadium and you can’t say they were a bigger club than us. Sort it out NSWE
Thames AFC, one of the worst ever Football League clubs, had a ground which supposedly held 120000 - the West Ham Stadium which was actually a greyhound track.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: DeKuip on March 02, 2022, 10:01:35 PM
Whatever it is, it needs to have a big AV marked out in the seats and nothing else as a nod to the past.

And perhaps no draft beer as a further heritage feature.

If we really want a nod to the past how about no roof and a grass bank down the back to run down at full-time for a quick exit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on March 02, 2022, 10:35:41 PM
Villa Park is already a triggers broom to me as no stand remains since i first went in the 70's
so knocking down the North Stand will not bring a tear the way the Holte and Trinity did
Mange tout. Mange tout.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on March 02, 2022, 11:04:25 PM
That will make me feel old. Pulling down a stand I remember being built.
Dont worry about it. Wolves have built 2 stands at the North bank in the same time period. Their fans must feel ancient.

And that's just because they're all still wearing flares and getting to and from the ground in an 'oss and cart!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on March 03, 2022, 09:18:57 AM
Great news that they're getting on with it.  If they cxan squeeze 55k that would be fantastic.  50k is a massive improvement, but I feel will still leave us a bit short - 9th in the league, albeit comparable with Evertons new ground

This list is interesting

Club/Team                            Stadium                                  Capacity
Manchester United F.C.   Old Trafford                           74,140
Tottenham Hotspur F.C.   Tottenham Hotspur Stadium   62,850
West Ham United F.C.,    London Stadium                           62,500
Liverpool F.C. (from 23-24)***   Anfield                           61,000
Celtic F.C.                           Celtic Park                                   60,411
Arsenal F.C.                   Emirates Stadium                   60,260
Manchester City F.C.           Etihad Stadium                           55,017
Liverpool F.C.                   Anfield                                   53,394
Everton F.C. ***           Bramley-Moore Dock Stadium   52,888
Newcastle United F.C.           St James' Park                           52,404
Rangers F.C.                   Ibox Stadium                           50,817
Sunderland A.F.C.           Stadium of Light                   49,000
Aston Villa F.C.                   Villa Park                                   42,573
Chelsea F.C.                   Stamford Bridge                           41,841
Everton F.C. ***           Goodison Park                           40,394
Sheffield Wednesday F.C.   Hillsborough Stadium                   39,732
Leeds United F.C.          Elland Road                           37,890
Middlesbrough F.C.          Riverside Stadium                   34,742
Derby County F.C.          Pride Park Stadium                   33,597
Sheffield United F.C.          Bramall Lane                           32,702
Southampton F.C.          St Mary's Stadium                   32,689
Coventry City F.C.,            Ricoh Arena                           32,609
Leicester City F.C.          King Power Stadium                   32,500
Wolverhampton                 Molineux Stadium                   32,050
Blackburn Rovers F.C.          Ewood Park                           31,367
Brighton & Hove Albion      Falmer Stadium                           30,750
Nottingham Forest F.C.   City Ground                           30,602
Milton Keynes Dons F.C.   Stadium MK                           30,500
Ipswich Town F.C.          Portman Road                           30,311
Stoke City F.C.                  Bet365 Stadium                           30,183
Birmingham City F.C.          St Andrew's                           30,009
Bolton Wanderers F.C.   University of Bolton Stadium   28,723
Norwich City F.C.          Carrow Road                           27,244
Charlton Athletic F.C.          The Valley                                   27,111
Bristol City F.C.,            Ashton Gate                           27,000
West Bromwich Albion    The Hawthorns                           26,688
Crystal Palace F.C.           Selhurst Park                           26,309

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on March 03, 2022, 10:07:29 AM
New Brighton Tower FC had an 80,000 capacity stadium and you can’t say they were a bigger club than us. Sort it out NSWE
Thames AFC, one of the worst ever Football League clubs, had a ground which supposedly held 120000 - the West Ham Stadium which was actually a greyhound track.

Catford South End FC had a 50,000 stadium in Catford, SE London which they loaned out to Charlton for a few seasons in the 1920’s. I walked my dog on the old pitch a few weeks ago, which is now a park.  Nothing to do with the Catford greyhound stadium which was down the road ( and is now trendy flats)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: rjp on March 03, 2022, 10:25:59 AM
I think your list is out of date :)

Birmingham City F.C.          St Andrew's                           30,009
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on March 03, 2022, 10:26:51 AM
If we do eventually make the Champions League, then 55k will not be big enough.

Just my view but anything over around 55K and it becomes more like an arena rather than a football ground
The biggest myth for me is that more people in a stadium the better the atmosphere I think it’s the opposite once you go over that figure the atmosphere goes to shit

Just look at the new stadiums that have been built over 60k now
Do any of them have a better atmosphere than when they were smaller

60 + You’re attending an event with people so far from the pitch they might as well watch it on telly

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 03, 2022, 11:11:48 AM
If we do eventually make the Champions League, then 55k will not be big enough.

Just my view but anything over around 55K and it becomes more like an arena rather than a football ground
The biggest myth for me is that more people in a stadium the better the atmosphere I think it’s the opposite once you go over that figure the atmosphere goes to shit

That's a fair enough point if not always true. Let's see how we fare with the new stand and maybe keep an eye on Anfield as it goes from 53k to 61k.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on March 03, 2022, 11:12:31 AM
Tend to agree. There probably are exceptions (Dortmund? Not been to Nu-Spurs but it sounds good on'telly until the home team plays like Blues).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on March 03, 2022, 01:54:12 PM
I think your list is out of date :)

Birmingham City F.C.          St Andrew's                           30,009

Is it now just the 9 :)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on March 03, 2022, 01:56:08 PM
I think your list is out of date :)

Birmingham City F.C.          St Andrew's                           30,009

Is it now just the 9 :)

They'd still run out of scarves.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Border villan on March 03, 2022, 04:20:06 PM
I think your list is out of date :)

Birmingham City F.C.          St Andrew's                           30,009

009, the name’s Bond, John Bond.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on March 03, 2022, 04:37:07 PM
Tend to agree. There probably are exceptions (Dortmund? Not been to Nu-Spurs but it sounds good on'telly until the home team plays like Blues).

I can confirm that having gone to the new Spurs stadium earlier this season, whilst it's a top stadium, the atmosphere is resoundingly crap.  The loudest noise was definitely coming from the Villa fans (and I was undercover in the Spurs end).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: wolfman999 on March 03, 2022, 08:26:43 PM
Not sure if this has been asked elsewhere as I haven't followed the thread but, considering how difficult it is to obtain match tickets, how are they going to accommodate the ST holders in the North Stand while they are building a new one.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on March 03, 2022, 08:32:58 PM
Not sure if this has been asked elsewhere as I haven't followed the thread but, considering how difficult it is to obtain match tickets, how are they going to accommodate the ST holders in the North Stand while they are building a new one.

There's still at least 10,000 tickets available (Inc away fans) for each game, enough to cover the North Stand season tickets.

There fucking better be, anyway.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on March 03, 2022, 08:35:44 PM
Not sure if this has been asked elsewhere as I haven't followed the thread but, considering how difficult it is to obtain match tickets, how are they going to accommodate the ST holders in the North Stand while they are building a new one.
We have c 30k season ticket holders, so even without the North Stand should be able to accommodate them all I'd think (North Stand capacity is 6,000 reduced ground capacity will be approx 35k.  Not much left for general sale though after away tickets though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on March 03, 2022, 08:53:39 PM
Also would they build behind it first and maybe knock it down when they do the bottom tier . i guess it depends on what design they are  building
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on March 03, 2022, 10:58:59 PM
Also would they build behind it first and maybe knock it down when they do the bottom tier . i guess it depends on what design they are  building
My guess is that this is exactly what's going to happen.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on March 04, 2022, 10:56:29 AM
Also would they build behind it first and maybe knock it down when they do the bottom tier . i guess it depends on what design they are  building

That's how Liverpool have built their new stands and given how much space there is behind the North Stand you'd hope we'd do that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dave P on March 04, 2022, 03:31:08 PM
Not sure if this has been asked elsewhere as I haven't followed the thread but, considering how difficult it is to obtain match tickets, how are they going to accommodate the ST holders in the North Stand while they are building a new one.

They'll offer us the upper witton which is 100000% more expensive.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Pat Mustard on March 04, 2022, 03:46:24 PM
Also would they build behind it first and maybe knock it down when they do the bottom tier . i guess it depends on what design they are  building

That's how Liverpool have built their new stands and given how much space there is behind the North Stand you'd hope we'd do that.

Liverpool have kept/are keeping the existing stands as the lower tier of their new builds.  I'm not sure how that would work with the North Stand, as the lower tier is effectively still the old terrace which needs to be ripped out and rebuilt.  I would have though it would be more logical to do what we did when we rebuilt the Holte, and get the stand knocked down ASAP and build from the front, so we can gradually open areas as the stand goes up.  In theory we could do it this way and be back almost up to the existing capacity within a few months.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on March 04, 2022, 10:20:20 PM
Also would they build behind it first and maybe knock it down when they do the bottom tier . i guess it depends on what design they are  building

That's how Liverpool have built their new stands and given how much space there is behind the North Stand you'd hope we'd do that.

Liverpool have kept/are keeping the existing stands as the lower tier of their new builds.  I'm not sure how that would work with the North Stand, as the lower tier is effectively still the old terrace which needs to be ripped out and rebuilt.  I would have though it would be more logical to do what we did when we rebuilt the Holte, and get the stand knocked down ASAP and build from the front, so we can gradually open areas as the stand goes up.  In theory we could do it this way and be back almost up to the existing capacity within a few months.

I’d agree with this as the likelihood is you can knock down and have the Lower tier built within 6 months and that will probably have the same capacity as the whole north stand currently. I suppose it depends on the design of the stand and the best methodology for time/cost/risk. I just hope it’s got the wow factor.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Axl Rose on March 04, 2022, 10:24:45 PM
Oh how I miss Villa Park.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ez on March 05, 2022, 12:55:08 PM
Also would they build behind it first and maybe knock it down when they do the bottom tier . i guess it depends on what design they are  building

That's how Liverpool have built their new stands and given how much space there is behind the North Stand you'd hope we'd do that.

Liverpool have kept/are keeping the existing stands as the lower tier of their new builds.  I'm not sure how that would work with the North Stand, as the lower tier is effectively still the old terrace which needs to be ripped out and rebuilt.  I would have though it would be more logical to do what we did when we rebuilt the Holte, and get the stand knocked down ASAP and build from the front, so we can gradually open areas as the stand goes up.  In theory we could do it this way and be back almost up to the existing capacity within a few months.
Reminds me of when we got a free plastic poncho at the turnstiles. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dante Lavelli on March 05, 2022, 01:02:42 PM
Is there any mention of safe standing in the new designs?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan82 on March 05, 2022, 01:05:51 PM
Seeing people complain about reduced capacity during the construction.

Well, unless my memory is playing up, the new Witton Lane, new Holte and new Trinity were all built with minimal disruption. The lower tier of the new Holte was available very early in 1995-95. I seem to remember the new Trinity, which is a fairly complicated structure, had fans on seats around bonfire night 2000 and was fully open by early 2001. SO, half a season of disruption- at most. I am sure a new North Stand would be quite similar. The 7,000 seats we would lose from demolition would probably be available within a short amount of time.

Without checking, I can't recall Liverpool having reduced capacity while there new main stand was built?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 05, 2022, 01:10:17 PM
Also would they build behind it first and maybe knock it down when they do the bottom tier . i guess it depends on what design they are  building

Would make sense.

From memory the Trinity was brutally knocked down the day after the final game of the season in 99-00 yet parts of it were open for the first home game of the next season and then think it was fully open by Boxing day (at least the seating parts).

So something would have to go wrong in the building process for the whole stand to be out of action for a full season so I imagine it would be open in stages and can build up season tickets from there. Probably by September-October capacity would be back up to 42k so you wouldn't lose anything for most of the season.

Would imagine for the few months of limited capacity away allocation would be cut so probably just upper tier in the Witton perhaps?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LukeJames on March 05, 2022, 01:18:46 PM
As long as we don't get the same guys that are doing Craven Cottage. that stands seems to have been in development for years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on March 05, 2022, 09:33:03 PM
Liverpool built their main stand over the top of the old. They're currently doing the same with the Anfield Road Stand.

It might well be possible to do the same jerez as there's fundamentally 50% of fresh capacity unoccupied given the narrow upper tier.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on March 06, 2022, 03:11:59 AM
Any sign of our owners at the game today? I think I still have palpitations about Tony Xia...I'm always hoping Nas or Wes only turn up at VP for our wins, to make sure they feel the best of the Villa atmosphere and remind themselves that they're in this for the long haul.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on March 06, 2022, 09:07:21 AM
Seeing people complain about reduced capacity during the construction.

Well, unless my memory is playing up, the new Witton Lane, new Holte and new Trinity were all built with minimal disruption. The lower tier of the new Holte was available very early in 1995-95.

I don’t think we averaged 30,000 in any season for over a decade up to ‘95 so much less demand for the reduced capacity during the redevelopments. It will be a totally different story this time
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: exigo on March 06, 2022, 10:03:50 AM
Slightly surprised by the planning application taking so long, after what Purslow said before Christmas.
Ideal would be get the plans in this Spring, knock down the North the day after we play Palace. Get enough space cleared to get the Foo Fighters stage in without issue. Have the first seats available near the start of the season, knowing that you have a month of no games because of the world cup – so almost up to full capacity by January.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on March 06, 2022, 11:31:37 AM
Slightly surprised by the planning application taking so long, after what Purslow said before Christmas.
Ideal would be get the plans in this Spring, knock down the North the day after we play Palace. Get enough space cleared to get the Foo Fighters stage in without issue. Have the first seats available near the start of the season, knowing that you have a month of no games because of the world cup – so almost up to full capacity by January.

Could we not demolish the stand with the Foo Fighters in it, killing two birds with one stone and doing the world a great favour?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: DB on March 06, 2022, 03:27:26 PM
Really hope a Museum is in the plans. A club with our illustrious history should have one.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on March 06, 2022, 03:28:41 PM
Really hope a Museum is in the plans. A club with our illustrious history should have one.

And a Cheese Room, to get one over on Tottenham
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: exigo on March 06, 2022, 04:18:36 PM
Really hope a Museum is in the plans. A club with our illustrious history should have one.

And a Cheese Room, to get one over on Tottenham

Opened by James Bree?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on March 06, 2022, 04:49:30 PM
Really hope a Museum is in the plans. A club with our illustrious history should have one.

As well as football, I'd love the museum to also cover the social history of the area and Birmingham in general: industry, multiculturalism, architecture, the arts. And an audio accompaniment of some exclusively commissioned Benjamin Zephaniah works.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sid1964 on March 07, 2022, 07:04:26 AM
I would imagine that the Birmingham museum would cover all the above Rory

We are a football club lets get the museum to focus on Aston Villa
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on March 07, 2022, 11:36:19 AM
I like the idea of a museum, but ...

Who's going to visit it exactly?  OK, probably all of us at some point because we're Villa supporters.  But how many times are we going to pay it a visit?

It's not going to change massively year-on-year, so maybe for season ticket holders / regular visitors, maybe once every 2 or 3 years being very optimistic.  Visiting supporters?  Maybe, but how many times have any of us have been to the Manchester United museum?  I'd guess a sum total in the region of 0.  Random visitors to Birmingham?   That's possibly your biggest thing, but I can't see that being huge hoards of people.

My feeling is that a museum is only really viable if we become something that, honestly, few of us actually want - a club that tourists visit to take in a game as a one-off event.  That necessarily brings with it a rubbish atmosphere, since anyone going will be more interested in taking selfies than anything on show (not knocking that, I went down to London a couple of weekends ago and spent most of the time taking photos of my little girl in front of landmarks, not actually engaging with those landmarks -- it's no different, it's just maybe not we want particularly).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on March 07, 2022, 11:47:47 AM
I like the idea of a museum, but ...

Who's going to visit it exactly?  OK, probably all of us at some point because we're Villa supporters.  But how many times are we going to pay it a visit?

It's not going to change massively year-on-year, so maybe for season ticket holders / regular visitors, maybe once every 2 or 3 years being very optimistic.  Visiting supporters?  Maybe, but how many times have any of us have been to the Manchester United museum?  I'd guess a sum total in the region of 0.  Random visitors to Birmingham?   That's possibly your biggest thing, but I can't see that being huge hoards of people.

My feeling is that a museum is only really viable if we become something that, honestly, few of us actually want - a club that tourists visit to take in a game as a one-off event.  That necessarily brings with it a rubbish atmosphere, since anyone going will be more interested in taking selfies than anything on show (not knocking that, I went down to London a couple of weekends ago and spent most of the time taking photos of my little girl in front of landmarks, not actually engaging with those landmarks -- it's no different, it's just maybe not we want particularly).




Maybe a museum incorporated with in a restaurant / fan zone area where people can spend time before and after the game ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 07, 2022, 11:51:22 AM
I guess the demand for a museum would be similar to the demand for the ground tour.  There's a demand for that. Incorporate them both as a Ground and museum tour with a cafe/restaurant and you have a decent business. Nothing on the scale of Camp Nu but eventually maybe.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 07, 2022, 11:53:54 AM
I like the idea of a museum, but ...

Who's going to visit it exactly?  OK, probably all of us at some point because we're Villa supporters.  But how many times are we going to pay it a visit?

It's not going to change massively year-on-year, so maybe for season ticket holders / regular visitors, maybe once every 2 or 3 years being very optimistic.  Visiting supporters?  Maybe, but how many times have any of us have been to the Manchester United museum?  I'd guess a sum total in the region of 0.  Random visitors to Birmingham?   That's possibly your biggest thing, but I can't see that being huge hoards of people.

My feeling is that a museum is only really viable if we become something that, honestly, few of us actually want - a club that tourists visit to take in a game as a one-off event.  That necessarily brings with it a rubbish atmosphere, since anyone going will be more interested in taking selfies than anything on show (not knocking that, I went down to London a couple of weekends ago and spent most of the time taking photos of my little girl in front of landmarks, not actually engaging with those landmarks -- it's no different, it's just maybe not we want particularly).




Maybe a museum incorporated with in a restaurant / fan zone area where people can spend time before and after the game ?
all for that, just dont get the reason for a museum.

A museum should be part of a stadium tour, otherwise its pretty pointkess.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 07, 2022, 12:22:06 PM
I like the idea of a museum, but ...

Who's going to visit it exactly?  OK, probably all of us at some point because we're Villa supporters.  But how many times are we going to pay it a visit?

It's not going to change massively year-on-year, so maybe for season ticket holders / regular visitors, maybe once every 2 or 3 years being very optimistic.  Visiting supporters?  Maybe, but how many times have any of us have been to the Manchester United museum?  I'd guess a sum total in the region of 0.  Random visitors to Birmingham?   That's possibly your biggest thing, but I can't see that being huge hoards of people.

My feeling is that a museum is only really viable if we become something that, honestly, few of us actually want - a club that tourists visit to take in a game as a one-off event.  That necessarily brings with it a rubbish atmosphere, since anyone going will be more interested in taking selfies than anything on show (not knocking that, I went down to London a couple of weekends ago and spent most of the time taking photos of my little girl in front of landmarks, not actually engaging with those landmarks -- it's no different, it's just maybe not we want particularly).


Tag it in with a ground tour, I presume those are still going in some form in these times. With the rebuild I presume the corner flag restaurant will be pulled down so stick a decent restaurant next to museum and there's potential for decent number of fans to arrive early on matchday.

Would assume the new club shop will also go into the new stand along with ticket office so that's how you get decent footfall if people have time to kill on non matchdays.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan82 on March 07, 2022, 12:36:47 PM
Of course there is a market for a museum.We have all been saying there needs to be more things to do at the ground. A café/restaurant and museum together would be a big addition to Villa Park.

I understand the grumbles, but come on, it's 2022. We have had an international fan base for as long as I can remember and there have been some very lean periods in there.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 07, 2022, 12:47:48 PM
It would work on matchday but we just don't get enough custom during the week to make it viable at any other time. The Holte proved that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on March 07, 2022, 12:58:03 PM
It would work on matchday but we just don't get enough custom during the week to make it viable at any other time. The Holte proved that.

Yep, and would it generate the revenue that another shop/restaurant/bar would?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 07, 2022, 01:00:08 PM
It would work on matchday but we just don't get enough custom during the week to make it viable at any other time. The Holte proved that.

Not too sure about that - it really depends what you expect from it financially.

The pub couldn't survive on its non match day takings, but I'd imagine the museum would be less a commercial, direct money making venture and more a part of the usual match day experience. We also seem to be able to offer stadium tours year-round as well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 07, 2022, 01:37:05 PM
It would work on matchday but we just don't get enough custom during the week to make it viable at any other time. The Holte proved that.

How about building a hotel aswell? (wink)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on March 07, 2022, 02:01:19 PM
There is talk of a museum isn’t there? Lee Preece in charge of the project.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on March 07, 2022, 05:08:32 PM
I wonder how well the Villa Park tours do, financially. They seem to be on year-round at regular intervals.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: DB on March 07, 2022, 05:15:41 PM
The stadium tours do well and it would be part of that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on March 07, 2022, 05:48:49 PM
There is definitely scope for a museum and I agree that it would need to incorporate other things such as the official club merchandise shop and a cafe/bar mainly for matchdays. The club seems to be finally capitalising on the monumental efforts of one William Mcgregor with the whole "gas lamp" idea. Imagine a mock up of a victorian street scene complete with a foggy night setting and characters meeting under a gas lamp discussing the formation of a football league. There's plenty of land but will they give up the car park? So many people rely on it. Perhaps a park and ride service could be provided from the new development at Brookvale Road.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on March 08, 2022, 09:46:53 PM
Watched a video earlier showing the new Anfield Rd end at Liverpool. It's being constructed behind the existing stand and will hold just shy of 16k. They have no qualms making it bigger than the Kop. It's also a free standing end and they've resisted filling in the corners. We have a lot more room at the North Stand end and it would be great if we can surpass that 16k figure and even the 17k at Spurs new stadium. It's probably the big kid in me talking but I used to love the fact that when it was built the Holte was the largest "end" in Europe.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sid1964 on March 09, 2022, 10:28:57 AM
Will the North Stand Lower have a safe standing area incorporated into it?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 09, 2022, 11:22:03 AM
Will the North Stand Lower have a safe standing area incorporated into it?

We don't know yet, the designs are being unveiled in the summer. I assume one or more of the designs will incorporate a safe standing option.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 09, 2022, 11:30:43 AM
Arsenal sold out. https://twitter.com/PreeceObserver/status/1501514312610942976

Wilma will be disappointed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on March 09, 2022, 12:14:55 PM
Watched a video earlier showing the new Anfield Rd end at Liverpool. It's being constructed behind the existing stand and will hold just shy of 16k. They have no qualms making it bigger than the Kop. It's also a free standing end and they've resisted filling in the corners. We have a lot more room at the North Stand end and it would be great if we can surpass that 16k figure and even the 17k at Spurs new stadium. It's probably the big kid in me talking but I used to love the fact that when it was built the Holte was the largest "end" in Europe.
Me too.

For me, there's a few benchmarks that we should be aiming for:
- More than 15k capacity, and on it's own it'd be in the 100 biggest sports stadia in the UK
- More than 16k capacity = top 90
- More than 18k capacity = top 80
- More than 20k capacity = top 70
- More than 22k capacity = top 60
- More than 25.2k capacity = top 50

Currently the Holte is languishing in 3rd place with 13.4k capacity, behind the Stretford End (Manc Utd, 14.3k) and South Stand (Spuds, 17.5k).

I'd like to see us at least get in to that 18k-20k range, putting VP back in it's rightful place.  We'd have a stand larger than all bar 70-ish entire stadiums, and both our 'ends' would be in the top 4 largest in the country.

Oh, free standing, AV floodlights.  Obviously.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on March 09, 2022, 12:54:42 PM
Holte "languishing" in 3rd? That's much higher than I thought, bostin'!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on March 09, 2022, 12:54:44 PM
I can't imagine what a 20k free standing end stand would even look like.  It would presumably have to be way higher than the rest of the ground so that the back rows weren't miles from the pitch.  In which case it would dominate over the rest of the ground and would probably look a bit crap?

I'm all for aiming high (figuratively) but not at the expense of all else.  I'd rather VP retained its character over just aiming for the maximum capacity.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on March 09, 2022, 04:34:05 PM
Watched a video earlier showing the new Anfield Rd end at Liverpool. It's being constructed behind the existing stand and will hold just shy of 16k. They have no qualms making it bigger than the Kop. It's also a free standing end and they've resisted filling in the corners. We have a lot more room at the North Stand end and it would be great if we can surpass that 16k figure and even the 17k at Spurs new stadium. It's probably the big kid in me talking but I used to love the fact that when it was built the Holte was the largest "end" in Europe.
Me too.

For me, there's a few benchmarks that we should be aiming for:
- More than 15k capacity, and on it's own it'd be in the 100 biggest sports stadia in the UK
- More than 16k capacity = top 90
- More than 18k capacity = top 80
- More than 20k capacity = top 70
- More than 22k capacity = top 60
- More than 25.2k capacity = top 50

Currently the Holte is languishing in 3rd place with 13.4k capacity, behind the Stretford End (Manc Utd, 14.3k) and South Stand (Spuds, 17.5k).

I'd like to see us at least get in to that 18k-20k range, putting VP back in it's rightful place.  We'd have a stand larger than all bar 70-ish entire stadiums, and both our 'ends' would be in the top 4 largest in the country.

Oh, free standing, AV floodlights.  Obviously.

Ah, so the largest single stand then?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 09, 2022, 04:39:04 PM
It would be some sight to have another massive stand at the other end. But I cannot imagine that it won't be two tier with corporate boxes. Too much money lost if we didn't do that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on March 09, 2022, 07:03:03 PM
Watched a video earlier showing the new Anfield Rd end at Liverpool. It's being constructed behind the existing stand and will hold just shy of 16k. They have no qualms making it bigger than the Kop. It's also a free standing end and they've resisted filling in the corners. We have a lot more room at the North Stand end and it would be great if we can surpass that 16k figure and even the 17k at Spurs new stadium. It's probably the big kid in me talking but I used to love the fact that when it was built the Holte was the largest "end" in Europe.
Me too.

For me, there's a few benchmarks that we should be aiming for:
- More than 15k capacity, and on it's own it'd be in the 100 biggest sports stadia in the UK
- More than 16k capacity = top 90
- More than 18k capacity = top 80
- More than 20k capacity = top 70
- More than 22k capacity = top 60
- More than 25.2k capacity = top 50

Currently the Holte is languishing in 3rd place with 13.4k capacity, behind the Stretford End (Manc Utd, 14.3k) and South Stand (Spuds, 17.5k).

I'd like to see us at least get in to that 18k-20k range, putting VP back in it's rightful place.  We'd have a stand larger than all bar 70-ish entire stadiums, and both our 'ends' would be in the top 4 largest in the country.

Oh, free standing, AV floodlights.  Obviously.
In my view you can't count the Stretford End as lts not freestanding. I mean where does it start and end? I remember going to Anfield and being shocked how small the Kop was but it wrapped right round the sides maybe a quarter of the way down the pitch. Hence it was claimed to hold 30k. The North Stand can still he classed as freestanding just much wider than the Holte.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: nigel on March 09, 2022, 07:33:28 PM
One thing we do know about the new North Stand and that’s it will be big.
It has to more than double its present capacity for us to reach the, what appears to be, magic 50k.

I’ve a feeling it will be pretty close to the concept drawing, from Twitter, a few pages back.
I thought that looked pretty impressive.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 09, 2022, 07:59:23 PM
It would be some sight to have another massive stand at the other end. But I cannot imagine that it won't be two tier with corporate boxes. Too much money lost if we didn't do that.

There will never be another stand built at a major ground without corporates. Very likely not boxes, as the trend is towards posh seats like the Trinity centre ones, but you'll never be able to walk from the top to the bottom.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Border villan on March 09, 2022, 08:03:40 PM
It would be some sight to have another massive stand at the other end. But I cannot imagine that it won't be two tier with corporate boxes. Too much money lost if we didn't do that.

There will never be another stand built at a major ground without corporates. Very likely not boxes, as the trend is towards posh seats like the Trinity centre ones, but you'll never be able to walk from the top to the bottom.

Not without oxygen if it is as big as we all hope.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SaddVillan on March 09, 2022, 08:04:13 PM
Here's a completely left field idea.

When the Holte was demolished I drove down to Trinity Road and joined a queue of fellow Villans collecting a few of the bricks from the rubble.

How about we return them to Villa Park to be incorporated in a ground level section of the New North Stand, possibly with names suitably carved/engraved in them?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lucky Eddie on March 09, 2022, 08:09:57 PM
Better still build the new stand with an imposing red brick traditional external facade.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 10, 2022, 12:48:14 AM
I think we kept some of the Holte open when it was being rebuilt, you can just about see it during the highlights from the Inter 1-0 win. So would we be able to keep the Lower North open until the upper is rebuilt? That would lessen the number of lost seats during the rebuild process.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 10, 2022, 09:40:18 AM
I'd love it for the exterior of the new North Stand to be all brick - like that Indianapolis stadium.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villafirst on March 10, 2022, 10:22:01 AM
Thank God we have Nassef & Wes as our owners! Chelsea are screwed with Ambramovich's assets frozen. Rumours they can't even sell tickets now? Only season ticket owners are allowed to watch matches....
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on March 10, 2022, 10:45:08 AM
Thank God we have Nassef & Wes as our owners! Chelsea are screwed with Ambramovich's assets frozen. Rumours they can't even sell tickets now? Only season ticket owners are allowed to watch matches....

Yep, no sales of tickets, merchandise, players or commercial. They can continue, under licence, to pay staff and bills etc so can still compete.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villafirst on March 10, 2022, 10:59:26 AM
Apparently club sponsors are reviewing their association with Chelsea....
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on March 10, 2022, 11:46:13 AM
Thoughts and Prayers for everyone connected with Chelsea in and around the Fulham Broadway area.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on March 10, 2022, 11:47:26 AM
Apparently club sponsors are reviewing their association with Chelsea....

That’s the worrying one.
Not from a Chelsea perspective…..fuck ‘em.
But in a wider footballing perspective. Could this scare companies off from investing their millions in football in general?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on March 10, 2022, 11:49:23 AM
Apparently club sponsors are reviewing their association with Chelsea....

That’s the worrying one.
Not from a Chelsea perspective…..fuck ‘em.
But in a wider footballing perspective. Could this scare companies off from investing their millions in football in general?

No. Though hopefully they'd reconsider associating themselves with the likes of Man City and Newcastle as well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on March 10, 2022, 12:35:51 PM
Apparently club sponsors are reviewing their association with Chelsea....

That’s the worrying one.
Not from a Chelsea perspective…..fuck ‘em.
But in a wider footballing perspective. Could this scare companies off from investing their millions in football in general?

No. Though hopefully they'd reconsider associating themselves with the likes of Man City and Newcastle as well.
Spot on.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 10, 2022, 12:48:14 PM
No. Though hopefully they'd reconsider associating themselves with the likes of Man City and Newcastle as well.

If only we could persuade Saudi Arabia and UAE to invade Oman, Liverpool, Arsenal, West Ham and Villa could battle it out for the title and CL places.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan82 on March 10, 2022, 01:08:01 PM
Chelsea had a lot of artificial success after Abramovic. Looks like the chickens are coming home to roost.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villafirst on March 10, 2022, 01:08:54 PM
Chelsea should be relegated!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on March 10, 2022, 01:13:22 PM
I think we kept some of the Holte open when it was being rebuilt, you can just about see it during the highlights from the Inter 1-0 win. So would we be able to keep the Lower North open until the upper is rebuilt? That would lessen the number of lost seats during the rebuild process.

Oh, who let him back? 🙄
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: JUAN PABLO on March 10, 2022, 05:23:35 PM
Chelsea have lost their main sponsor 3 now
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 10, 2022, 05:37:38 PM
Chelsea have lost their main sponsor 3 now

So they'll get to play in shirts with no logo emblazoned across them? Bummer.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: purpletrousers on March 10, 2022, 05:58:09 PM
But not be able to buy a nice sponsor free shirt as no merch.
And minimal spend to put on & travel to games. Johnson’s coaches will do for them. 
Karma vipāka? (Karma is the willed action, Vipaka the consequential ‘ripening’)

Sanskrit/Buddhism lesson over.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: JUAN PABLO on March 10, 2022, 06:03:23 PM
Chelsea have lost their main sponsor 3 now

So they'll get to play in shirts with no logo emblazoned across them? Bummer.


Still 40 million quid they ain't getting
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on March 10, 2022, 06:10:20 PM
When was the last time we went sponsor-less in a competitive game - the start of 93/94 when the contract deal with Muller was yet to be fully licked?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Exeter 77 on March 10, 2022, 07:11:19 PM
I wonder their match day catering is in-house. If it is am I right in thinking they can't sell food or drink either?

Edit: Ignore, Dave has explained this elsewhere.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Allan C on March 10, 2022, 07:20:18 PM
When was the last time we went sponsor-less in a competitive game - the start of 93/94 when the contract deal with Muller was yet to be fully licked?
Those shirts were great without the Muller logo on them. I even liked the green away one
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Exeter 77 on March 10, 2022, 07:23:28 PM
When was the last time we went sponsor-less in a competitive game - the start of 93/94 when the contract deal with Muller was yet to be fully licked?
Those shirts were great without the Muller logo on them. I even liked the green away one
I've mentioned before that I have my shirt framed with Paul McGrath's autograph where the sponsor's logo should be.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 10, 2022, 07:40:03 PM
Chelsea have lost their main sponsor 3 now

So they'll get to play in shirts with no logo emblazoned across them? Bummer.

Still 40 million quid they ain't getting

Would be such a shame if it meant them going into administration. https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/arid-40826009.html
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Bad English on March 10, 2022, 07:42:18 PM
Massive points deduction and off you fuck to the 'Championship' it is then!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on March 10, 2022, 10:10:01 PM
When was the last time we went sponsor-less in a competitive game - the start of 93/94 when the contract deal with Muller was yet to be fully licked?
Those shirts were great without the Muller logo on them. I even liked the green away one

Had to do a double-take this evening flicking on the Sevilla-West Ham Europa League game and the 'ammers didn't have a sponsor on their shirt. Not sure why, doubt it was a "solidarity with Chelsea" move (!); is it something to do with gambling companies on shirts being banned in Spain?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan For Life on March 10, 2022, 10:21:11 PM
Dear Wes and Nas

Please sign Phil.

UTV

From

Villa Fans Everywhere
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SaddVillan on March 11, 2022, 09:47:35 AM
When was the last time we went sponsor-less in a competitive game - the start of 93/94 when the contract deal with Muller was yet to be fully licked?
Those shirts were great without the Muller logo on them. I even liked the green away one

Had to do a double-take this evening flicking on the Sevilla-West Ham Europa League game and the 'ammers didn't have a sponsor on their shirt. Not sure why, doubt it was a "solidarity with Chelsea" move (!); is it something to do with gambling companies on shirts being banned in Spain?

Gambling company logos have been banned from football shirts in Spain since the start of the 21-22 season, so the Hammers had to remove the logo to abide by the rules.

Several Spanish clubs wore plain shirts at the start of the season whilst they found new shirt sponsors, having had to terminate deals with betting companies.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FatSam on March 22, 2022, 07:42:36 PM
So, UK and Republic of Ireland in line to host Euro 2028 after no one else bids (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/mar/22/uk-and-republic-of-ireland-in-line-to-host-euro-2028-after-no-one-else-bids). It will be interesting to see to what extent this figures in NSWE's thinking. I hope this sets a timescale for ground improvements, and would like Villa Park to be chosen as a venue because of its quality, rather than geography or population density. There is clearly some work to do to increase the capacity and raise the standard of the facilities.

Quote from: The Guardian
UK and Republic of Ireland in line to host Euro 2028 after no one else bids
Confirmation expected by Uefa executive committee on 7 April
Wembley expected to host final of likely 32-team tournament

Paul MacInnes
@PaulMac
Tue 22 Mar 2022 11.40 GMT
The four UK nations and the Republic of Ireland are likely to be confirmed as hosts of Euro 2028 in a fortnight after no other countries bid to stage the tournament.

A deadline for submissions is set for Wednesday, but barring a late unexpected entry, the UK-Ireland bid will be the only one on the table. This means the process of confirming the hosts can be expedited, with a meeting of Uefa’s executive committee on 7 April providing the opportunity to rubber-stamp the decision.

Potential rivals have fallen away after the five nations confirmed interest enthusiastically supported by the tournament organisers, Uefa. Italy is expected to bid for Euro 2032 instead, and a potential Russian bid has been made impossible following the invasion of Ukraine.

With Wembley able to host the final, and other matches to be held in Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland and elsewhere in England, the tournament offers Uefa the closest thing to a guarantee of sold-out stadiums and the chance to recoup money lost to the pandemic.

A decision to determine the number of nations competing in 2028, with an increase from 24 countries to 32 deemed likely, will be made by Uefa before the end of the year.

The five nations prioritised a bid for Euro 2028 after deciding to drop plans to stage the World Cup in 2030. The UK government had expressed a strong desire to host the World Cup but a feasibility study conducted by the English FA found “many areas of uncertainty” with the proposal.

The bid has not been damaged by the disorder that marred last July’s Euro 2020 final at Wembley. The five nations would not automatically qualify for the tournament because Uefa grants that privilege only when a maximum of two countries are chosen as hosts. However the Guardian understands that the five nations share a belief that each should be able to compete in the finals.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 22, 2022, 07:59:45 PM
So the UK and RI are set to host Euro 2028. I would hope that sets a timescale for ground improvements:

Hopefully good news for Villa Park but getting to the games in Providence will be a pain.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villa Lew on March 27, 2022, 08:49:55 PM
In today's MoS a survey of more than 10,000 fans of the 20 Premier League clubs has been carried out asking them for their opinion of their owners. NSWE got an approval rate of 98.3%, which is great, but would like to know who these 1.7% are, what more do they want?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villa Lew on March 27, 2022, 08:52:03 PM
Man United owners got an approval rate of 4.04%, West Ham 15.1%.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 27, 2022, 09:06:19 PM
In today's MoS a survey of more than 10,000 fans of the 20 Premier League clubs has been carried out asking them for their opinion of their owners. NSWE got an approval rate of 98.3%, which is great, but would like to know who these 1.7% are, what more do they want?

I suspect the revelation that you read the Mail may have a lower approval rating on here than the Glazers amongst Yanited fans. ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on March 27, 2022, 09:14:36 PM
In today's MoS a survey of more than 10,000 fans of the 20 Premier League clubs has been carried out asking them for their opinion of their owners. NSWE got an approval rate of 98.3%, which is great, but would like to know who these 1.7% are, what more do they want?

The 1.7% is the sum total of all Birmingham fans, trying to upset the data collection.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on March 27, 2022, 09:27:18 PM
when do we think they will reveal stadium plans for the redevelopment ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 27, 2022, 10:12:53 PM
when do we think they will reveal stadium plans for the redevelopment ?

They said the designs will be unveiled at the 'end of the season' (which is less than 2 months away) but hopefully we might hear something before then.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on March 27, 2022, 10:34:58 PM
In today's MoS a survey of more than 10,000 fans of the 20 Premier League clubs has been carried out asking them for their opinion of their owners. NSWE got an approval rate of 98.3%, which is great, but would like to know who these 1.7% are, what more do they want?

The 1.7% is the sum total of all Birmingham fans, trying to upset the data collection.

I assumed it was Fred and Wilma Flinstone, Barney and Betty Rubble and the rest of the grouchy, stone-age people of Bedrock.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on March 27, 2022, 11:29:10 PM
In today's MoS a survey of more than 10,000 fans of the 20 Premier League clubs has been carried out asking them for their opinion of their owners. NSWE got an approval rate of 98.3%, which is great, but would like to know who these 1.7% are, what more do they want?
To be fair, I'd probably mark myself as "Disapproval", in as much as I'm not really down with any billionaires (with little prior connection to the club) owning football clubs. E.g. I didn't sell my shares to Lerner, even when it made no financial or logical sense to keep them.

Though that tempered with the fact that they've been the perfect billionaire owners, and it's hard to find fault with anything they've done.

Have quite a complicated relationship to the whole thing ...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on March 29, 2022, 01:14:24 PM
Anybody got any info on the redevelopment?  There must be someone on here who's heard a whisper?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on March 29, 2022, 05:46:25 PM
Whatever they do with the redevelopment, I hope they make a better job of it than has been done with Perry Barr station. I drove past it earlier. What a state!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on March 29, 2022, 09:52:03 PM
I hope I’m wrong, but I fear they’ll make a proper mess of this Commonwealth games malarkey. Is anything on schedule for completion in time? I hope those in attendance like the smell of wet paint.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 30, 2022, 03:29:16 PM
There's a story doing the rounds about us hooking up with Vitoria de Guimaraes - ie them becoming a part of the V Sports group.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 30, 2022, 03:40:01 PM
There's a story doing the rounds about us hooking up with Vitoria de Guimaraes - ie them becoming a part of the V Sports group.

That was reported a while back as in last year (or even before that) but not sure what came of it. Maybe our Lisbon correspondent knows more.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on March 30, 2022, 06:09:42 PM
Rudi can't fail - a Villa on his doorstep and one in Brum.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on March 31, 2022, 12:41:44 PM
There's a story doing the rounds about us hooking up with Vitoria de Guimaraes - ie them becoming a part of the V Sports group.

That was reported a while back as in last year (or even before that) but not sure what came of it. Maybe our Lisbon correspondent knows more.
From what I'd read, Vitoria elected a new president recently, so it's moved to discussions with him rather than the previous one.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan82 on April 09, 2022, 07:00:06 PM
NSWE. Amazing owners. Incredible journey so far. Plans for a 50,000 Villa Park.

Being badly, badly, let down on the pitch for the past 15 months. Utterly unacceptable given the investment.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on April 09, 2022, 07:05:29 PM
NSWE. Amazing owners. Incredible journey so far. Plans for a 50,000 Villa Park.

Being badly, badly, let down on the pitch for the past 15 months. Utterly unacceptable given the investment.

Can't argue much with that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: CT Villan on April 09, 2022, 07:52:24 PM
NSWE. Amazing owners. Incredible journey so far. Plans for a 50,000 Villa Park.

Being badly, badly, let down on the pitch for the past 15 months. Utterly unacceptable given the investment.

That lands firmly at the CEO's door.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 09, 2022, 08:53:12 PM
Give us a manager of Conte's quality one day and we might finally get somewhere.

Until then it will be lots more money wasting and crossing of fingers I suspect.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: curiousorange on April 09, 2022, 09:06:12 PM
I said this on Twitter during the game, with hyperbole I suppose, but a fifty million quid contract for a brilliant manager negates having to spend the other fifty. But I stand by the point - I'd rather just shell out there than set up a finishing school, especially since it sounds like Gerrard is intent on shopping at John Lewis and not Aldi despite the outlay on the academy.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on April 09, 2022, 09:06:23 PM
Give us a manager of Conte's quality one day and we might finally get somewhere.

Until then it will be lots more money wasting and crossing of fingers I suspect.

It's a fair point.  I wonder what other Managers were available to us when Gerrard was appointed.  We are going to have to build a couple of players at a time and be patient. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Three Spires Villa on April 09, 2022, 09:11:47 PM
Conte was going to walk a few weeks ago.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richtheholtender on April 09, 2022, 09:12:38 PM
Give us a manager of Conte's quality one day and we might finally get somewhere.

Until then it will be lots more money wasting and crossing of fingers I suspect.



I think the last time we had a big name manager was Ron Atkinson. He was box office and we finished second and won a cup under him.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: curiousorange on April 09, 2022, 09:13:32 PM
Spuds are in a different place to us expectation wise, but it's frustrating how easy it seemed to be for them to sort a Conte when they were in trouble. Ditto United with Ten Haag, Chelsea with Tuchel...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Beard82 on April 09, 2022, 09:21:34 PM
Give us a manager of Conte's quality one day and we might finally get somewhere.

Until then it will be lots more money wasting and crossing of fingers I suspect.

It's a fair point.  I wonder what other Managers were available to us when Gerrard was appointed.  We are going to have to build a couple of players at a time and be patient.
Apparently we had a shortlist of 5.  But we all knew it was going to be Gerrard the second smith went
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on April 09, 2022, 09:44:40 PM
Conte was going to walk a few weeks ago.

Now look at him, even his hair is starting to suit him.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 09, 2022, 09:59:57 PM
Give us a manager of Conte's quality one day and we might finally get somewhere.

Until then it will be lots more money wasting and crossing of fingers I suspect.



I think the last time we had a big name manager was Ron Atkinson. He was box office and we finished second and won a cup under him.

O'Neill would be classed as one imo. Like it or not but he'd won plenty and got all of football talking about us again positively.

To a degree Gerrard has elements but O'Neill had about 15 years of management at various levels behind him when he turned up so way more experienced.

What I like about Conte is he's pretty quickly drilled his 3-5-2 and he's making it work with Spurs despite indifferent spells of form. I'd imagine since he turned up start of November they're comfortably top 4 in that table.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 09, 2022, 10:01:01 PM
Give us a manager of Conte's quality one day and we might finally get somewhere.

Until then it will be lots more money wasting and crossing of fingers I suspect.

It's a fair point.  I wonder what other Managers were available to us when Gerrard was appointed.  We are going to have to build a couple of players at a time and be patient.
Apparently we had a shortlist of 5.  But we all knew it was going to be Gerrard the second smith went

Wasn't Hasenhuttl mentioned right at the start. Mind you Saints were doing their best to get their annual 9-0 defeat today so perhaps not best time to mention him!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Beard82 on April 09, 2022, 10:05:12 PM
Give us a manager of Conte's quality one day and we might finally get somewhere.

Until then it will be lots more money wasting and crossing of fingers I suspect.

It's a fair point.  I wonder what other Managers were available to us when Gerrard was appointed.  We are going to have to build a couple of players at a time and be patient.
Apparently we had a shortlist of 5.  But we all knew it was going to be Gerrard the second smith went

Wasn't Hasenhuttl mentioned right at the start. Mind you Saints were doing their best to get their annual 9-0 defeat today so perhaps not best time to mention him!
I think martinez was too
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 09, 2022, 10:07:15 PM
Give us a manager of Conte's quality one day and we might finally get somewhere.

Until then it will be lots more money wasting and crossing of fingers I suspect.

It's a fair point.  I wonder what other Managers were available to us when Gerrard was appointed.  We are going to have to build a couple of players at a time and be patient.
Apparently we had a shortlist of 5.  But we all knew it was going to be Gerrard the second smith went

Wasn't Hasenhuttl mentioned right at the start. Mind you Saints were doing their best to get their annual 9-0 defeat today so perhaps not best time to mention him!
I think martinez was too

Not great options then.

I assume Poch will still be out of Paris at some point in next 12 months so given Man. United have overlooked him you never know.....

He'll probably be Newcastle manager this time next year.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Beard82 on April 09, 2022, 10:09:52 PM
Give us a manager of Conte's quality one day and we might finally get somewhere.

Until then it will be lots more money wasting and crossing of fingers I suspect.
Yeah a manager of that calibre would be amazing.  I dont know whether we could get someone like him.

It's a fair point.  I wonder what other Managers were available to us when Gerrard was appointed.  We are going to have to build a couple of players at a time and be patient.
Apparently we had a shortlist of 5.  But we all knew it was going to be Gerrard the second smith went

Wasn't Hasenhuttl mentioned right at the start. Mind you Saints were doing their best to get their annual 9-0 defeat today so perhaps not best time to mention him!
I think martinez was too

Not great options then.

I assume Poch will still be out of Paris at some point in next 12 months so given Man. United have overlooked him you never know.....

He'll probably be Newcastle manager this time next year.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on April 09, 2022, 10:13:05 PM
If I was Wes or Nassef, I would be asking if my money is safe with Gerrard at the helm?  Does he improve the players he has at his disposal? Or do we throw more money at him because, deep down, we believe in him? The fact that he isn't getting the best out of the players he has, would make me worry.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 09, 2022, 10:24:49 PM
If I was Wes or Nassef, I would be asking if my money is safe with Gerrard at the helm?  Does he improve the players he has at his disposal? Or do we throw more money at him because, deep down, we believe in him? The fact that he isn't getting the best out of the players he has, would make me worry.

I’d say you can’t reasonably answer the question yet. Does he improve players? He might given time, he might not. The key bit is time.
Nassef and Wes have placed their trust and money in their management structure. They need to give it a bit of time.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 09, 2022, 10:26:04 PM
Jack Grealish hasn’t been great for Citeh yet does that mean Guardiola is a poor manager? I don’t think so, things take time sometimes.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dante Lavelli on April 09, 2022, 10:33:33 PM
If I was Wes or Nassef, I would be asking if my money is safe with Gerrard at the helm?  Does he improve the players he has at his disposal? Or do we throw more money at him because, deep down, we believe in him? The fact that he isn't getting the best out of the players he has, would make me worry.

Slightly less worried about this, because 1. Gerrard attracts better players than our position should 2. Signing one should be a DMC whoever the manager is so I don’t think it is money wasted.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on April 09, 2022, 10:36:33 PM
If I was Wes or Nassef, I would be asking if my money is safe with Gerrard at the helm?  Does he improve the players he has at his disposal? Or do we throw more money at him because, deep down, we believe in him? The fact that he isn't getting the best out of the players he has, would make me worry.

Slightly less worried about this, because 1. Gerrard attracts better players than our position should 2. Signing one should be a DMC whoever the manager is so I don’t think it is money wasted.

If Gerrard brings in players to demonstrate that we are punching above our weight, such as Coutinho, on a consistent basis, I will gladly defer.  But the evidence is that he brought in one player, on loan who was struggling to fit in elsewhere.  I hope I am wrong and you are right though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 09, 2022, 10:47:58 PM
Jack Grealish hasn’t been great for Citeh yet does that mean Guardiola is a poor manager? I don’t think so, things take time sometimes.

Guardiola has a bit more beef on the CV to mean that he doesn't need Grealish to prove whether he's a good manager.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on April 10, 2022, 05:05:14 PM
Hopefully we can try and take Jack back on a season-loan in the summer.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 14, 2022, 04:17:05 PM
Some comments today from Purslow about the redevelopment of Villa Park

https://twitter.com/avfcofficial/status/1514619493871341580?s=21&t=OBut7T3Pxyd0hvL4k3T6OA

Full interview on the OS
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on April 14, 2022, 04:23:25 PM
Really interesting to hear what he has to say and there could be exciting times ahead, and he speaks so well.
Can you imagine anything remotely close to this coming from any other club in the region?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on April 14, 2022, 04:23:54 PM
Interesting. Just over 50k first phase then refurb of trinity.

New commercial building in North stand car park.

Expanded rail at Witton.

Sounds promising.

Planning in end of summer hope to be completed 2 years from then.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: boozey182 on April 14, 2022, 04:30:47 PM
I have my doubts about Purslow, but it is difficult not to be impressed and excited by that interview. The owners really do mean business here, and it seems like they really won't stop until we get to the very top. They aren't going to be investing this kind of money to watch us flounder around 15th-11th for the next 10 years....

It puts it all into perspective a bit. Gerrard has been massively underwhelming so far, but the fact is if he doesn't get us going, he'll be gone. When you're watching your team lose 4 on the bounce, it can be difficult to take a step back and look at the complete picture, and the truth is - we are moving in the right direction. Maybe not as quickly as we would all like, and this last season does seem like a complete waste, but we will get there. If Gerrard isn't the one to take us to the next step, we'll move on to the next one. If he's no good, we'll look again.

There are many things to grumble about day-to-day when supporting Villa, but little bits of news like this are great to be able to look at where we're heading.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on April 14, 2022, 04:32:09 PM
Just seen the video with Purslow. Michelle asked all the right questions.

Exciting plans, - the club want the Holte and Doug Ellis stands plus safe standing all to have been upgraded/introduced in the next decade.

It does feel like Nas and Wes are in it for the long haul.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on April 14, 2022, 04:37:44 PM
Just seen the video with Purslow. Michelle asked all the right questions.

Exciting plans, - the club want the Holte and Doug Ellis stands plus safe standing all to have been upgraded/introduced in the next decade.

It does feel like Nas and Wes are in it for the long haul.
Well, I guess she’s given the questions to ask so that it appears to be like an interview.

That aside, the message they are getting across is incredibly exciting.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 14, 2022, 04:46:51 PM
Michelle who did the interview really is very good indeed. Thank fuck it wasn't Jack
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Border villan on April 14, 2022, 04:49:27 PM
Just done the survey. Quite detailed questions.
I would encourage all to complete it and emphasise the dire catering in all parts of the ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on April 14, 2022, 04:57:13 PM
I just completed both surveys. Fill em in guys. They don't take that long. Give them your thoughts.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nev on April 14, 2022, 05:19:42 PM
I would have been more impressed had he used the correct description of the Trinity Road Stand, rather than the Trinity Stand.

*  rolls eyes and joins enormous queue for a pint  *
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SaddVillan on April 14, 2022, 05:29:55 PM
The North Stand currently seats 7,086. Making it a 15,000 stand would add 7,914 - doubling iit in size and take our total capacity to 50,518.

The Holte seats 13,472, but  don't forget  that Trinity Road cuts across at one corner. So I guess we're looking at something broadly similar to the Holte at the Witton End (I'm old school). Wonder if the club has something in mind to make them look different to one another, or might they be "mirror" images?  (Does anyone know of a ground where the end stands are the same?  And I'm not talking bowl grounds like The KFC or Derby or tiddly lower league Lego grounds.

I guess they'll add more boxes than the North Stand currently holds as well as some pretty impressive hospitality space to generate more dosh.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on April 14, 2022, 05:31:56 PM
I am curious what they plan to do with the Doug Ellis , witton lane stand if

anything
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on April 14, 2022, 05:39:05 PM
The survey got me thinking.

At one point the questions point towards the possibility of access to an exclusive concourse with additional catering/food options via an enhanced ticket (I imagine that to be a bit like an exclusive lounge in an airport departure area). Sounds like this is under consideration.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on April 14, 2022, 05:51:07 PM
That'll be the place where the pints pour themselves or you can do it at your leisure.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: astonvilla82 on April 14, 2022, 05:52:18 PM
Just seen the video with Purslow. Michelle asked all the right questions.

Exciting plans, - the club want the Holte and Doug Ellis stands plus safe standing all to have been upgraded/introduced in the next decade.

It does feel like Nas and Wes are in it for the long haul.
Well, I guess she’s given the questions to ask so that it appears to be like an interview.

That aside, the message they are getting across is incredibly exciting.
wish every local club were like it,(striring the pot)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on April 14, 2022, 05:54:50 PM
Did he say “customers “?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Richard E on April 14, 2022, 05:58:54 PM
Did he say “customers “?

Yes, unfortunately.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on April 14, 2022, 06:12:42 PM
Did he say “customers “?

Yes, but I think that was in the context of the people who would be using the additional commercial development 365 days per year.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 14, 2022, 06:12:48 PM
I'm just glad he didn't say "the prime minister was right to apologise. He's paid the fine. It's now time to move on and get on with delivering for the British people."
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on April 14, 2022, 07:14:32 PM
Just done the survey. Quite detailed questions.
I would encourage all to complete it and emphasise the dire catering in all parts of the ground.

For some reason it won't progress on from page 3 for me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: CT Villan on April 14, 2022, 07:45:05 PM
Decent enough scripted interview, the plans are exciting. Maybe I misunderstood, CP said it wouldn't impact our PL seasons, though I can't imagine that current North Stand fans won't be affected, so maybe he means we will be able to fulfill our fixtures.

...and then after watching the interview I watched the "125 years of Villa Park" video too and whoever it is on here that is chopping onions, can you please stop !
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Border villan on April 14, 2022, 07:57:47 PM
Just done the survey. Quite detailed questions.
I would encourage all to complete it and emphasise the dire catering in all parts of the ground.

For some reason it won't progress on from page 3 for me.

The spacing for your postcode needs to be correct if it is on this page.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 14, 2022, 08:12:35 PM
Just done the survey. Quite detailed questions.
I would encourage all to complete it and emphasise the dire catering in all parts of the ground.

For some reason it won't progress on from page 3 for me.

The spacing for your postcode needs to be correct if it is on this page.

Completed it, pretty easy when you're telling them traffic around VP doesn't matter to you. ;)

Wouldn't take an overseas phone number so had to put in my cousin's UK number in case I win some LurveShop vouchers.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on April 14, 2022, 08:14:40 PM
Just done the survey. Quite detailed questions.
I would encourage all to complete it and emphasise the dire catering in all parts of the ground.

For some reason it won't progress on from page 3 for me.

The spacing for your postcode needs to be correct if it is on this page.

Cheers Border, I swapped phones and it worked fine.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on April 14, 2022, 08:17:53 PM
I want to see designs! This absolutely goes to the heart of my childhood and a weird love of ground development. I used to love the higgeldy-piggeldy grounds you had on Football Italia on Channel 4 or whacky shit ones like the Mannor Ground and I'd love either drawing them, complete with thousands of circles for fans or making stands out of Lego.

It's carried on a fascination now for any ground redeployment. Give me my North Stand design fix Purslow!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 14, 2022, 08:20:59 PM
Same here, can't wait to see the new North Stand design (hopefully with lots of red bricks and mosaics).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on April 14, 2022, 08:41:30 PM
I want to see designs! This absolutely goes to the heart of my childhood and a weird love of ground development. I used to love the higgeldy-piggeldy grounds you had on Football Italia on Channel 4 or whacky shit ones like the Mannor Ground and I'd love either drawing them, complete with thousands of circles for fans or making stands out of Lego.

It's carried on a fascination now for any ground redeployment. Give me my North Stand design fix Purslow!


yep fascinated by grounds,  as a kid  i used to make them out of cardboard  Although the new stadium bowls don’t appeal as much
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on April 14, 2022, 08:46:31 PM
Yeah I agree. Not so fussed over new grounds. Like you say, bowls are a bit meh, but I love seeing the evolution of grounds. Hillsborough as a nipper fascinated me, with that opened ended corner they have next to the Leppings Lane End.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 14, 2022, 08:53:23 PM
Really interesting to hear what he has to say and there could be exciting times ahead, and he speaks so well.
Can you imagine anything remotely close to this coming from any other club in the region?

Wolves would point to making QFs of europa a few years back and not being far off euro contention this season either.

Let's not give it the big 'un until we're regularly finishing above them and making europa ourselves as we've seen countless times stuff like Grealish leaving can stall our progress by a year or two.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on April 14, 2022, 08:57:17 PM
Really interesting to hear what he has to say and there could be exciting times ahead, and he speaks so well.
Can you imagine anything remotely close to this coming from any other club in the region?

Wolves would point to making QFs of europa a few years back and not being far off euro contention this season either.

Let's not give it the big 'un until we're regularly finishing above them and making europa ourselves as we've seen countless times stuff like Grealish leaving can stall our progress by a year or two.

Wolves success is measured by finishing above us. Just listen to their tin pot support.

Aston Villa are and always will be the yardstick round here, regardless.

Our progression isn't measured in such parochial terms.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on April 14, 2022, 09:21:57 PM
Yeah I agree. Not so fussed over new grounds. Like you say, bowls are a bit meh, but I love seeing the evolution of grounds. Hillsborough as a nipper fascinated me, with that opened ended corner they have next to the Leppings Lane End.


Yeah I agree. Not so fussed over new grounds. Like you say, bowls are a bit meh, but I love seeing the evolution of grounds. Hillsborough as a nipper fascinated me, with that opened ended corner they have next to the Leppings Lane End.



I am with you on Newgrounds

One ground I would like to visit is Napoli
I know it’s an old falling down ruin, but that’s the reason I want visit
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on April 14, 2022, 09:47:12 PM
I want to see designs! This absolutely goes to the heart of my childhood and a weird love of ground development. I used to love the higgeldy-piggeldy grounds you had on Football Italia on Channel 4 or whacky shit ones like the Mannor Ground and I'd love either drawing them, complete with thousands of circles for fans or making stands out of Lego.

It's carried on a fascination now for any ground redeployment. Give me my North Stand design fix Purslow!

The absolute king of mad, mad stadiums was the Norwich stadium before they built Carrow Rd, absolutely batshit. Salvador Dali would've written it off as over the top.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SaddVillan on April 14, 2022, 10:01:06 PM
Can they include Simon Inglis on the team deciding on the look of the new Witton End.

Villa fan
Remembers the ground pre-1966 World Cup.
Author of several books on the history of football grounds.
Really appreciates and understands the romance and history of Villa Park, something that the news stand needs to reflect and acknowledge.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on April 14, 2022, 10:04:11 PM
I want to see designs! This absolutely goes to the heart of my childhood and a weird love of ground development. I used to love the higgeldy-piggeldy grounds you had on Football Italia on Channel 4 or whacky shit ones like the Mannor Ground and I'd love either drawing them, complete with thousands of circles for fans or making stands out of Lego.

It's carried on a fascination now for any ground redeployment. Give me my North Stand design fix Purslow!

The absolute king of mad, mad stadiums was the Norwich stadium before they built Carrow Rd, absolutely batshit. Salvador Dali would've written it off as over the top.

Oh wow The Nest was mental! Well worth a look at.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nelly on April 14, 2022, 10:05:09 PM
How exciting to see this moving forwards. I'll be a little sad to see the North Stand go, but I won't miss the row of seats in front digging into my knees. This development might be one of the biggest things to happen to Villa in my lifetime. Changing Villa Park is a bold move.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 14, 2022, 10:27:35 PM
Hasn't 55,000 been mentioned before? Surely there's no way we can get to 55,000 just by building a new North Stand?

Oh and while the North Stand doesn't look the greatest, I've always found the simple "AV" lettering quite striking, and hope that stays in the new one.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on April 14, 2022, 10:42:11 PM
If you mirrored the Holte, but with the benefit of having it flush, you'd probably have a 14-15,000 seater. That's an additional 8,000 taking us to 50,000. If you fill the corners you'd have maybe 2,500-3000 each side? Taking us to ~55,000
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 14, 2022, 10:43:05 PM
The absolute king of mad, mad stadiums was the Norwich stadium before they built Carrow Rd, absolutely batshit. Salvador Dali would've written it off as over the top.

Oh wow The Nest was mental! Well worth a look at.

Yup, first came to my attention when The Guardian did a piece on the 80th anniversary of Carrow Road opening.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/jul/28/norwich-city-carrow-road-80th-birthday
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 14, 2022, 11:40:18 PM
Hasn't 55,000 been mentioned before? Surely there's no way we can get to 55,000 just by building a new North Stand?

Oh and while the North Stand doesn't look the greatest, I've always found the simple "AV" lettering quite striking, and hope that stays in the new one.

Would imagine long term plan will be to extend the Witton outwards (somehow).

It will look tiny once the new North is done up so could do with another tier or add another 9/10 rows but that would be difficult to achieve in short term with the road/houses etc.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SaddVillan on April 15, 2022, 02:25:44 AM
The North Stand currently seats 7,086. Making it a 15,000 stand would add 7,914 - doubling in size and take total capacity to 50,518.

The Holte seats 13,472, but Trinity Road cuts across at one corner, so a mirror of the Holte would be around 15,000.
Guess they'll add more boxes than the North Stand currently holds to boost revenue and include some pretty fancy corporate style hospitality facilities too.

The point about the Witton Lane aka Doug Ellis is well made. It's just too shallow - because it's hemmed in by the road. To make it a decent stand, the club would have to acquire Witton Lane and, most likely the houses on Holte Rd/McGregor Close - that would give them plenty of room to build a much deeper stand, with plenty if space for some decent catering - the current offering is woeful.

The Witton holds 9,081, the Trinity Road 12,954.

I reckon that if we're going to increase the capacity towards 60,000 then:
Doug Ellis would have to be c. 15k
Trinity 13k
Holte 13.5k
New Witton Lane 15k

That would take us up to 55-56k and filling in the corners would make up the difference.

One thing I'd love to see is a montage of club badges over the years in bloody great big mosaics
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on April 15, 2022, 03:26:40 AM
I love looking at aerial photos/footage of football stadiums and seeing how they fit into their environs. I think someone has a YouTube channel of drone footage taken from above various stadia.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nev on April 15, 2022, 08:17:48 AM
I've long been obsessed with football grounds, it's an absolute treasure trove of fascinating information with much of their development and character mirroring that of the nation particularly through the vernacular used in the names of grounds, stands and terraces.

I would like the North Stand (exterior wise anyway) to be red brick but something different from the Holte, which in itself is a pastiche of the old Trinity Road Stand (to quote Inglis). Interior wise the only thing I would like, as I have mentioned before, and referenced above, it to see the AV picked out in the seats.

When you get rid of an old stand I think it's important to retain something of the old character to keep those vitally important links with the past. Woolwich Arsenal found that out when they had to belatedly install a clock at one end of Ashburton Grove to differentiate the ends in what is a fairly drab and featureless ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on April 15, 2022, 08:19:03 AM
Yeah I agree. Not so fussed over new grounds. Like you say, bowls are a bit meh, but I love seeing the evolution of grounds. Hillsborough as a nipper fascinated me, with that opened ended corner they have next to the Leppings Lane End.
Same here I've always been a football stadium geek. I love quirky stuff like the randomly planted 2 tiered block of seats at the old Stamford Bridge for example or Fenway Park in America. Have you ever seen The Bombaniero? I've probably spelt that wrong but I think it's Boca Juniors stadium. Three huge stands then one side that just rises vertically with balconies due to road restrictions. Utterly bonkers but esthetically fascinating. That's why no matter what they do Villa Park has to remain unique. The idea of yet another bowl leaves me cold. I look forward to seeing the new plans.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on April 15, 2022, 09:03:34 AM
To be honest I’m slightly disappointed with the 50k target, which I think would take us to 9th biggest in the PL. I guess it’s the hospitality that brings in the big bucks, but when we’re spending all this money it would have made more sense to me to push up to 55k if at all possible.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on April 15, 2022, 09:07:40 AM
Mentioned to bloke at work about Villa Park being 125 years old and he was impressed but said "but is it like Trigger's broom?".

 ;D
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 15, 2022, 09:08:50 AM
If you mirrored the Holte, but with the benefit of having it flush, you'd probably have a 14-15,000 seater. That's an additional 8,000 taking us to 50,000. If you fill the corners you'd have maybe 2,500-3000 each side? Taking us to ~55,000

Yeah maybe that would work. It's a shame we can't seem to do much with the WL Stand.

Part of me still thinks that whatever we propose, the council will block it, and then we have to start debating whether we build a new ground. We will see, I suppose.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: DB on April 15, 2022, 09:22:51 AM
Maybe with the WL they are seeing how these phases go first. If we keep selling out with +50K and the waiting list is still healthy, they may well doing something...IMO it needs demolition too, such a shit stand for 2022.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FrankyH on April 15, 2022, 09:46:16 AM
If you mirrored the Holte, but with the benefit of having it flush, you'd probably have a 14-15,000 seater. That's an additional 8,000 taking us to 50,000. If you fill the corners you'd have maybe 2,500-3000 each side? Taking us to ~55,000

Yeah maybe that would work. It's a shame we can't seem to do much with the WL Stand.

Part of me still thinks that whatever we propose, the council will block it, and then we have to start debating whether we build a new ground. We will see, I suppose.

No proof or evidence to qualify this , but I always thought that Mr Ellis had probably rubbed up people in the council the wrong way and hence the bickering we witnessed back then . Wasn't it someone from the council who penned the phrase "four sheds" ? Probably a bitter bluenose scoring cheap points . Anyway I have filled out the 2 surveys and have requested a replica of the claret & blue fibre glass curved  facia that ran along the Trinity road stand between the upper and lower stands facing the pitch.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on April 15, 2022, 09:46:54 AM
It doesn't look shit from the outside though, which is part of the issue. Correct me of in wrong, but I don't think it was mentioned at all. That suggests to me that it's the next thing to be looked at bit nobody wants to upset the local residents until after the really big job of doing the North.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on April 15, 2022, 09:50:34 AM
The WL is landlocked though.  Shit as it is (and it’s really shit in the concourse) there’s nothing they can really do to increase capacity.  The North stand is really the only one that isn’t restricted by space, so really it’s our one shot at getting us up to a competitive capacity, hence my comment above re 50k.  I guess they will be able to tweak by filling in corners in the future etc, but that will be limited by the initial design
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 15, 2022, 09:58:19 AM
If you mirrored the Holte, but with the benefit of having it flush, you'd probably have a 14-15,000 seater. That's an additional 8,000 taking us to 50,000. If you fill the corners you'd have maybe 2,500-3000 each side? Taking us to ~55,000

Yeah maybe that would work. It's a shame we can't seem to do much with the WL Stand.

Part of me still thinks that whatever we propose, the council will block it, and then we have to start debating whether we build a new ground. We will see, I suppose.

No proof or evidence to qualify this , but I always thought that Mr Ellis had probably rubbed up people in the council the wrong way and hence the bickering we witnessed back then . Wasn't it someone from the council who penned the phrase "four sheds" ? Probably a bitter bluenose scoring cheap points . Anyway I have filled out the 2 surveys and have requested a replica of the claret & blue fibre glass curved  facia that ran along the Trinity road stand between the upper and lower stands facing the pitch.

It's a completely different world now. Purslow assured the FCG that the council want to work with us. They see Villa Park as a tourist attraction, particularly if we get the Euros. It's a far cry from when Doug would attempt to dictate to the council and ignore the locals, at a time when nobody wanted a football ground in the vicinity.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: hipkiss92 on April 15, 2022, 10:07:28 AM
If you mirrored the Holte, but with the benefit of having it flush, you'd probably have a 14-15,000 seater. That's an additional 8,000 taking us to 50,000. If you fill the corners you'd have maybe 2,500-3000 each side? Taking us to ~55,000

Yeah maybe that would work. It's a shame we can't seem to do much with the WL Stand.

Part of me still thinks that whatever we propose, the council will block it, and then we have to start debating whether we build a new ground. We will see, I suppose.

I can't believe they will have got this far without having consulted the council
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: BC Villain on April 15, 2022, 10:16:52 AM
Exciting sounding plans.

One thing.  Did I hear right that Purslow indicated Villa Park in its current state wouldn't be used if the UK stages Euro 2028?  I don't agree with that.

Villa Park might not be as modern as other grounds, but it's still far bigger than any other stadium in the Midlands.  Hardly going to pick rickety St Andrews instead are they?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: DB on April 15, 2022, 10:18:49 AM
Exciting sounding plans.

One thing.  Did I hear right that Purslow indicated Villa Park in its current state wouldn't be used if the UK stages Euro 2028?  I don't agree with that.

Villa Park might not be as modern as other grounds, but it's still far bigger than any other stadium in the Midlands.  Hardly going to pick rickety St Andrews instead are they?

Maybe he was referring to UEFA minimum standards & facilities needed to put on matches and not just based on capacity
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: nigel on April 15, 2022, 10:19:12 AM
Exciting sounding plans.

One thing.  Did I hear right that Purslow indicated Villa Park in its current state wouldn't be used if the UK stages Euro 2028?  I don't agree with that.

Villa Park might not be as modern as other grounds, but it's still far bigger than any other stadium in the Midlands.  Hardly going to pick rickety St Andrews instead are they?

I think he meant they would overlook the West Midlands altogether.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 15, 2022, 10:20:29 AM
Exciting sounding plans.

One thing.  Did I hear right that Purslow indicated Villa Park in its current state wouldn't be used if the UK stages Euro 2028?  I don't agree with that.

Villa Park might not be as modern as other grounds, but it's still far bigger than any other stadium in the Midlands.  Hardly going to pick rickety St Andrews instead are they?

There's a load of criteria to qualify as Uefa-
 standard, much of it not related to the ground itself, and we fall short in a few areas. Believe it or not, transport is one of them.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on April 15, 2022, 10:22:29 AM
So the ground will go up to around 50k on phase 1, do we know what the overall will be once building has been completed?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 15, 2022, 10:24:35 AM
So the ground will go up to around 50k on phase 1, do we know what the overall will be once building has been completed?

They were talking about sixty, which I think is ambitious but hey ho.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 15, 2022, 10:27:35 AM
Wonder how many day trippers we may be able to attract when HS2 is up and running.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on April 15, 2022, 10:34:45 AM
So the ground will go up to around 50k on phase 1, do we know what the overall will be once building has been completed?

They were talking about sixty, which I think is ambitious but hey ho.
Ok, if they have planned in phases that could take it to 60 if needed then that is excellent news.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rico on April 15, 2022, 11:22:20 AM
AV floodlights please.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on April 15, 2022, 11:26:39 AM
Wonder how many day trippers we may be able to attract when HS2 is up and running.

Lots. 42 minutes from Euston to Curzon Street.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: nigel on April 15, 2022, 11:28:21 AM
So the ground will go up to around 50k on phase 1, do we know what the overall will be once building has been completed?

They were talking about sixty, which I think is ambitious but hey ho.
Ok, if they have planned in phases that could take it to 60 if needed then that is excellent news.

15000 at each end, Witton Lane to match Trinity Road at 13000 takes you to 56000.
A bit of tweaking here and there would take it to about 60000.

I’d be more than happy with 50-52000 for now to see where it takes us.
 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on April 15, 2022, 11:30:32 AM
So the ground will go up to around 50k on phase 1, do we know what the overall will be once building has been completed?

They were talking about sixty, which I think is ambitious but hey ho.

Let's just hope the 'if you build it, they will come' is a true saying.  Getting it right on the pitch is so important. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on April 15, 2022, 11:43:53 AM
I'm not convinced the Holte will get extra seats, unless they're considering knocking it down and starting again.

What I think is more likely is they'll dig down under the Holte Suite, effectively dropping it into a basement, then opening up the Lower Holte concourse so that it is more spacious. That said there might be a whole host of reasons why they can't do that. Time will tell.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on April 15, 2022, 11:50:03 AM
Who owns the strip of land on Witton Lane where there is a bit of green and a few benches? They took out a whole row of terraced houses that used to be there.

If that is owned by the club, then is it possible to rebuild the Witton Lane Stand with the road underneath as with the Trinity Road Stand? i.e. allowing sufficient depth to build something decent.

With Witton Station developed and the new inner-city academy, in addition to the new North Stand and the new commercial zone in the North Stand car park that end/side of the ground would be massively transformed.

I hope they also develop Aston Station as well. A different train line serving lots of fans.

Exciting times. UTV
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 15, 2022, 11:50:47 AM
I'm not convinced the Holte will get extra seats, unless they're considering knocking it down and starting again.

What I think is more likely is they'll dig down under the Holte Suite, effectively dropping it into a basement, then opening up the Lower Holte concourse so that it is more spacious. That said there might be a whole host of reasons why they can't do that. Time will tell.

Technology might have improved, but the water table in Aston was traditionally a problem for the pitch. Purslow did say that safe standing regulations have changed so you can get more capacity where seats currently exist. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dave P on April 15, 2022, 01:27:16 PM
I’m sure it’s been mentioned and probably dismissed before, but could any expansion of the Witton Lane stand include having the road running under the stand? As a stand, it doesn’t look out of place from the inside or outside, but the lack of space in there is a bit of a joke.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on April 15, 2022, 01:31:41 PM
I’m sure it’s been mentioned and probably dismissed before, but could any expansion of the Witton Lane stand include having the road running under the stand? As a stand, it doesn’t look out of place from the inside or outside, but the lack of space in there is a bit of a joke.
The space (or lack of) in the upper tier is ridiculous. Not sure what they're going to do. While extending over the road makes sense, when the second tier was added in the nineties the loss of natural light for the neighbouring residents was an issue. Maybe a partially sloping facade? It might look a bit odd, mind.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 15, 2022, 01:39:49 PM
Maybe a smart, sloping roof that has lots of angled bits to reflect light back onto the surrounding area, or something fancy like that, would be possible.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on April 15, 2022, 02:12:20 PM
Maybe a smart, sloping roof that has lots of angled bits to reflect light back onto the surrounding area, or something fancy like that, would be possible.

The problem is that the sun rises over the Trinity, so going higher on the Witton Lane just casts a bigger shadow.

Maybe they could sell the houses at put Blose there instead.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john2710 on April 15, 2022, 02:22:50 PM
Maybe they’ll partially build the new North Stand behind the existing stand, fill in the corners, whilst still using the existing stand. They may even move the pitch 10 - 20 yards towards the North Stand which allows them to extend the Trinity & Witton stands. When you look at the aerial view of the stadium the depth of the North Stand is half that if the Holte.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on April 15, 2022, 03:35:57 PM
The new build will have no impact on our ability to fulfil matches.
I doubt the pitch will be moving anywhere.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on April 15, 2022, 05:27:32 PM
For reasons already mentioned I just can't see how we can redevelop the Witton.

There are only two reasons to do so - to increase capacity and to improve facilities. To increase capacity would result in a loss of light for all the houses that side which the council wouldn't accept and to improve the facilities you need a much bigger concourse on the ground floor which is impossible without tearing up the road which the council wouldn't accept.

Unfortunately, I think we're stuck with the Witton as is. The best thing we can do to improve it is to change the sign on the side.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john2710 on April 15, 2022, 05:33:15 PM
The new build will have no impact on our ability to fulfil matches.
I doubt the pitch will be moving anywhere.
The pitch wouldn’t have to move until the new stand is complete.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SaddVillan on April 15, 2022, 05:50:30 PM
Any new stand at Villa Park should be clad in redbrick externally with bloody great mosaics - we've never replaced the ones that stood on the Trinity Road.

Fully agree about the Witton - it really is too shallow.

We could of course buy up the houses on McGregor Close and Holte Road and move Witton Lane back by 40yds, thereby giving us some decent room for a proper 15,000 stand - after all it's not as if Birmingam City Council is disinclined to change road layouts - they've done it enough times in and around the city centre over the years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on April 15, 2022, 05:52:47 PM
And what if the people who live around Witton Road don't want to move?

I don't want the Villa to do what Liverpool did to the local residents around Anfield.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 15, 2022, 05:57:41 PM
Any new stand at Villa Park should be clad in redbrick externally with bloody great mosaics - we've never replaced the ones that stood on the Trinity Road.

That's pretty much what I put in the VP survey.

We could of course buy up the houses on McGregor Close and Holte Road and move Witton Lane back by 40yds, thereby giving us some decent room for a proper 15,000 stand - after all it's not as if Birmingam City Council is disinclined to change road layouts - they've done it enough times in and around the city centre over the years.

Others will know more about the local dynamics but surely if you offer the residents a fair market value plus a sufficient premium they might be persuaded to sell up and enable us to expand it into Witton Lane. Aston isn't exactly Bel-Air.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 15, 2022, 05:58:57 PM
I don't want the Villa to do what Liverpool did to the local residents around Anfield.

Neither do I but didn't that involve letting the area get run down over time and then offering derisory amounts for the properties?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: saunders_heroes on April 15, 2022, 06:05:24 PM
Maybe a smart, sloping roof that has lots of angled bits to reflect light back onto the surrounding area, or something fancy like that, would be possible.

The problem is that the sun rises over the Trinity, so going higher on the Witton Lane just casts a bigger shadow.

Maybe they could sell the houses at put Blose there instead.

I used to sit in the lower Witton Lane and the sun would set behind the Trinity so maybe it wouldn’t be such an issue when it comes to rebuilding it??
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 15, 2022, 06:11:57 PM
The problem is that the sun rises over the Trinity, so going higher on the Witton Lane just casts a bigger shadow.

Maybe they could sell the houses at put Blose there instead.

I used to sit in the lower Witton Lane and the sun would set behind the Trinity so maybe it wouldn’t be such an issue when it comes to rebuilding it??

I believe that was a metaphor as we let in yet another 'injury time' goal.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on April 15, 2022, 06:43:40 PM
I don't want the Villa to do what Liverpool did to the local residents around Anfield.

Neither do I but didn't that involve letting the area get run down over time and then offering derisory amounts for the properties?

The trouble is, "market value" for a terraced house in the shadow of a football stadium doesn't give the owner enough to buy elsewhere. So I'm pretty sure Liverpool offered that, which some residents accepted and some didn't.

Once that happens it's not fair for the club to to pay some residents significantly more than others which means the remaining residents try to hold the club to ransom but actually end up living in a ghost town for years while their house steadily loses value.

Ultimately you can't force people out of their own homes and when they know a Premier League club want to buy their house there will be some who see it as their way out of relative poverty (understandably) and will try to get as much out of it as possible.  Unfortunately this pretty much scuppers any quick solution.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 15, 2022, 06:57:33 PM
With the housing market as it is, it's going to take a lot of persuading for the council to allow perhaps a hundred to be demolished and the current residents to find somewhere else in the vicinity.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dante Lavelli on April 15, 2022, 07:16:31 PM
I’d hope Villa have been buying properties on the road as they become available and also others in the area so they can offer to relocate people in their current community.  It might take decades but would be a good investment.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on April 15, 2022, 07:24:43 PM
We haven't got decades. We'll be dead and so will our planet.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 15, 2022, 07:37:13 PM
We haven't got decades. We'll be dead and so will our planet.

Vlad is going to shit the bed pretty soon and we'll all be scrabbling around for radioactive rats to eat.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 15, 2022, 07:41:07 PM
We haven't got decades. We'll be dead and so will our planet.

Vlad is going to shit the bed pretty soon and we'll all be scrabbling around for radioactive rats to eat.

White wine or red with radioactive rats? I'd like to know in advance, if possible. Just because society has broken down doesn't mean etiquette has to, too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 15, 2022, 07:42:56 PM
Any new stand at Villa Park should be clad in redbrick externally with bloody great mosaics - we've never replaced the ones that stood on the Trinity Road.

That's pretty much what I put in the VP survey.

We could of course buy up the houses on McGregor Close and Holte Road and move Witton Lane back by 40yds, thereby giving us some decent room for a proper 15,000 stand - after all it's not as if Birmingam City Council is disinclined to change road layouts - they've done it enough times in and around the city centre over the years.

Others will know more about the local dynamics but surely if you offer the residents a fair market value plus a sufficient premium they might be persuaded to sell up and enable us to expand it into Witton Lane. Aston isn't exactly Bel-Air.

It would only take one resident to reject the offer to scupper the whole move, though. I think they'd struggle to get unanimous agreement even if they offered double the values.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on April 15, 2022, 07:42:58 PM
I’d hope Villa have been buying properties on the road as they become available and also others in the area so they can offer to relocate people in their current community.  It might take decades but would be a good investment.
I’d hope the club are treating local residents with more consideration and respect.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chap on April 15, 2022, 07:48:37 PM
AV floodlights please.

Yes please!!😁
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 15, 2022, 07:48:40 PM
I’d hope Villa have been buying properties on the road as they become available and also others in the area so they can offer to relocate people in their current community.  It might take decades but would be a good investment.
I’d hope the club are treating local residents with more consideration and respect.

Seconded. I hope the days of the "We were here first" attitude have gone forever.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 15, 2022, 07:56:47 PM
I’d hope Villa have been buying properties on the road as they become available and also others in the area so they can offer to relocate people in their current community.  It might take decades but would be a good investment.
I’d hope the club are treating local residents with more consideration and respect.

Indeed, doing what Liverpool did to the streets at the back of their new stand would be revolting.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dante Lavelli on April 15, 2022, 08:47:14 PM
I’d hope Villa have been buying properties on the road as they become available and also others in the area so they can offer to relocate people in their current community.  It might take decades but would be a good investment.
I’d hope the club are treating local residents with more consideration and respect.

“as they become available” and “take decades” isn’t disrespectful.  Or is it, have I missed something?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 15, 2022, 09:07:52 PM
I’d hope Villa have been buying properties on the road as they become available and also others in the area so they can offer to relocate people in their current community.  It might take decades but would be a good investment.
I’d hope the club are treating local residents with more consideration and respect.

“as they become available” and “take decades” isn’t disrespectful.  Or is it, have I missed something?

What happens to the houses they've bought in the meantime? Do they lie empty and let fall derelict?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on April 15, 2022, 09:53:12 PM
I’d hope Villa have been buying properties on the road as they become available and also others in the area so they can offer to relocate people in their current community.  It might take decades but would be a good investment.
I’d hope the club are treating local residents with more consideration and respect.

Indeed, doing what Liverpool did to the streets at the back of their new stand would be revolting.
Add me to the most of people who don't want us to follow Liverpool's horrendous example. I'd hope that the club would be seen as 'good neighbours' and do what is reasonably within it's grasp to help the area whose name is borrows.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 15, 2022, 10:06:34 PM
Could we add seating dangling from the roof if we had those safe seats like an Alton Towers ride? What about if we had a glass ceiling a hundred feet above the pitch allowing people to watch the game from above? Should be safe now that Una Stubbs is no longer with us.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on April 15, 2022, 11:05:12 PM
I’d hope Villa have been buying properties on the road as they become available and also others in the area so they can offer to relocate people in their current community.  It might take decades but would be a good investment.
I’d hope the club are treating local residents with more consideration and respect.

“as they become available” and “take decades” isn’t disrespectful.  Or is it, have I missed something?

What happens to the houses they've bought in the meantime? Do they lie empty and let fall derelict?
This isn’t my plan, but the obvious answer to that is they let them out and be good landlords until they need them back.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SaddVillan on April 15, 2022, 11:31:57 PM
Buy them, but allow the occupants/previous owners to continue to live in them at modest rents until such time as we want to start work - thereby enabling them to build up some dosh towards a new house?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 15, 2022, 11:36:05 PM
I'm not sure kicking someone out of their house but allowing them to stay "at modest rents" until you're ready to send the bulldozers in is a scheme that would guarantee good PR for the club, if I'm being honest.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on April 16, 2022, 12:18:06 AM
Buy them all up and put the Academy players in them.

I am of course joking. We need to work with our neighbours, and treat them as such.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on April 16, 2022, 12:53:45 AM
I'm not too familiar with the details, but are we able to expand and improve the corporate and media facilities in the Witton and reduce the regular seating to create a little more space and reduce the numbers in the concourses?

Once the North is redeveloped, the view from the Witton will be the best in the ground for the neutral, facing the new North, the Trinity and the Holte.

To me, it makes no sense to put the media and corporates facing the soon-to-be shittest stand.

If Witton station is to be expanded, it makes sense for the new North to be the kind of 'reception' of the ground, with ticket offices, customer services, shop, museum etc. Then sacrifice capacity for expanded and top notch media and corporate facilities in the Witton, with a direct link to the 'front door' of the North, and then the Trinity and Holte can be two huge expanses of Villa fans, and exactly what visitors, away fans, media and corporates see and hear, face-on.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on April 16, 2022, 04:48:59 AM
If you mirrored the Holte, but with the benefit of having it flush, you'd probably have a 14-15,000 seater. That's an additional 8,000 taking us to 50,000. If you fill the corners you'd have maybe 2,500-3000 each side? Taking us to ~55,000

Yeah maybe that would work. It's a shame we can't seem to do much with the WL Stand.

Part of me still thinks that whatever we propose, the council will block it, and then we have to start debating whether we build a new ground. We will see, I suppose.
i think it could be done. It was feasible with the Trinity. We just built out over the road and it goes underneath the stand now. There’s a bit of a gap between the footpath on the east side of Witton Lane and the houses, separated by the parkland, which used to be houses.

The main thing they need to do though is enlarge Witton Station and improve the train capacity and frequency to and from that and Aston Station and maybe put extra buses on to and from BC centre to make it more easily accessible by public transport.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on April 16, 2022, 07:53:32 AM
I think the short answer to your question Rory in no, there isn’t room in the WL stand for Corporate & media facilities.  It’s tight as a gnats chuff in there.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on April 16, 2022, 08:13:35 AM
If you mirrored the Holte, but with the benefit of having it flush, you'd probably have a 14-15,000 seater. That's an additional 8,000 taking us to 50,000. If you fill the corners you'd have maybe 2,500-3000 each side? Taking us to ~55,000

Yeah maybe that would work. It's a shame we can't seem to do much with the WL Stand.

Part of me still thinks that whatever we propose, the council will block it, and then we have to start debating whether we build a new ground. We will see, I suppose.
i think it could be done. It was feasible with the Trinity. We just built out over the road and it goes underneath the stand now. There’s a bit of a gap between the footpath on the east side of Witton Lane and the houses, separated by the parkland, which used to be houses.

The main thing they need to do though is enlarge Witton Station and improve the train capacity and frequency to and from that and Aston Station and maybe put extra buses on to and from BC centre to make it more easily accessible by public transport.

If you look on Google Maps, the distance from the pitch to Trinity Road is at least double the distance from the pitch to Witton Lane. Trinity Road also only cuts across a tiny corner of the stand whereas Witton Lane runs the length of the ground, parallel to the pitch.

I just don't see how we could go over Witton Lane in the same way. The concourse would still be tiny which would make the fan experience shit, and arguably more importantly there could be safety issues with a lower tier stand which didn't have direct egress routes to the road outside.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on April 16, 2022, 08:23:01 AM
Think it might be just a case of accepting that part of the cost of staying at Villa Park is that the Witton Lane stand will be small and/or a bit shit. Looking at the positives, it pretty much guarantees an asymmetrical ground, which is something many folks on here value - largely distinct stands.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 16, 2022, 10:02:29 AM
Think it might be just a case of accepting that part of the cost of staying at Villa Park is that the Witton Lane stand will be small and/or a bit shit.

Never sat there but it always looked a bit tinpot even before it was developed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 16, 2022, 10:17:17 AM
What about adapting it as a sitting on laps stand? Could double capacity that way.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: exigo on April 16, 2022, 10:17:51 AM
We should be a couple of seasons away from setting our highest average attendance ever.

Home attendances for the 1948-49 campaign average 47,168, the highest in the club’s history.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on April 16, 2022, 11:01:09 AM
What about adapting it as a sitting on laps stand? Could double capacity that way.

That's a stupid idea. I mean what on earth would you do when your seat partner had tomato red sauce ketchup on their bacon Butty with no butter?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: curiousorange on April 16, 2022, 11:06:13 AM
I'm actually a little surprised there hasn't been a serious feasibility study into moving Villa out of Witton. American sport seems to have little problem with ripping up tradition and building afresh, and one of our owners obviously comes from that milieu. Playing devil's advocate, it solves any crowding/parking/facilities problems. I personally want us to stay at VP and be huge, as do our owners by the looks of it, and that's great. But once you've done the North Stand, you're a bit stumped.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 16, 2022, 11:13:24 AM
What about adapting it as a sitting on laps stand? Could double capacity that way.

That's a stupid idea. I mean what on earth would you do when your seat partner had tomato red sauce ketchup on their bacon Butty with no butter?

You'd commend them for not having butter but would have to hand them in to a steward for the red sauce disgrace.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Alex77 on April 16, 2022, 11:18:00 AM
What about adapting it as a sitting on laps stand? Could double capacity that way.

That's a stupid idea. I mean what on earth would you do when your seat partner had tomato red sauce ketchup on their bacon Butty with no butter?

Why would a Birmingham City fan be in there?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SaddVillan on April 16, 2022, 11:46:05 AM
I'm actually a little surprised there hasn't been a serious feasibility study into moving Villa out of Witton. American sport seems to have little problem with ripping up tradition and building afresh, and one of our owners obviously comes from that milieu. Playing devil's advocate, it solves any crowding/parking/facilities problems. I personally want us to stay at VP and be huge, as do our owners by the looks of it, and that's great. But once you've done the North Stand, you're a bit stumped.

NFL team owners are very adept at "blackmailing" local and state authorities into funding new stadiums in order to keep teams in their area because of the prestige involved in having an NFL team and the fear of losing them to somewhere else. For example Buffalo Bills have just released plans for a new stadium to be built near their existing ground. The cost is estimated at $1.4bn, with the local authority stumping up $250m and the state $600m, with the "contributions" being paid from local taxes. Because most cities only have one team, it's much easier to get the local population to buy into the idea of paying the extra rax because in some way it's an affirmation of local identity and pride.

Somehow I can't see the City of Brum, or local Bluenoses being prepared  to be so generous.

Putting the finances aside where in the area is there a space big enough for a brand new stadium? 

In reality you're looking for an old industrial site which is no longer needed because the business that was there has either gone busy or moved out.

Longbridge would have been ideal size-wise, plenty of room for a state of the art stadium and for all the  car parking and hospitality that you could ever want. Furthermore the old Austin site had railway lines serving it for freight purposes, so I guess a new passenger station could have been built - but Northfield/Rubery a long way from Aston.

Another alternative, which is right on our doorstep and which I am sure would have been more acceptable to fans in terms of proximity to Villa Park waa the old IMI site just up the road from Witton Station, but that has now been redeveloped into a shed land of industrial units.

Guess we're stuck where we are.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: curiousorange on April 16, 2022, 12:24:00 PM
I think it's more like being stuck where we are for now. One of the reasons given for VP expansion is the Euros bid, so say we get that, and by then Villa are established top 8/6, we might need more than 55k. Who knows what kinds of sites might be feasible by then?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: DB on April 16, 2022, 12:37:29 PM
I am sure a new WL you could a few more thousand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: curiousorange on April 16, 2022, 12:41:46 PM
I am sure a new WL you could a few more thousand.

You would, but that's what's been discussed over the past few pages - could we do with the Witton what we did with the Trinity?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 16, 2022, 12:51:07 PM
No, by all accounts.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 16, 2022, 03:06:14 PM
I’d like two things from the new North Stand.

1. The feeling of being as close to the pitch as possible, to create a properly intense atmosphere.
2. Exterior done in quality brick, no cheap cost cutting steel and glass bullshit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: CT Villan on April 16, 2022, 03:21:39 PM
I like Fred Rinder's plan to get us to 120,000 in 1914...

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Villa_Park_Proposed_Extension_1914.png)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 16, 2022, 03:44:16 PM
What about adapting it as a sitting on laps stand?

Sounds like my type of venue.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on April 16, 2022, 03:45:04 PM
John Carew, Carew!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Zouch Villa on April 16, 2022, 05:41:25 PM
I like Fred Rinder's plan to get us to 120,000 in 1914...

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Villa_Park_Proposed_Extension_1914.png)


I like the stadium design, but it looks like we were trying to play out from the back even then.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 16, 2022, 06:36:45 PM
I like Fred Rinder's plan to get us to 120,000 in 1914...

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Villa_Park_Proposed_Extension_1914.png)


I like the stadium design, but it looks like we were trying to play out from the back even then.

You can tell by looking at us in that picture, even then we had no idea how to use space.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on April 16, 2022, 07:06:59 PM
Magnificent picture all the same.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on April 16, 2022, 07:17:22 PM
I like Fred Rinder's plan to get us to 120,000 in 1914...

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Villa_Park_Proposed_Extension_1914.png)
How big are those ends to have a capacity of 120000? Reckon you're maybe looking at 16000 tops in the Witton Lane + Trinity Road stands, so ... 52k capacity?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Beard82 on April 16, 2022, 07:20:42 PM
I like Fred Rinder's plan to get us to 120,000 in 1914...

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Villa_Park_Proposed_Extension_1914.png)


I like the stadium design, but it looks like we were trying to play out from the back even then.

You can tell by looking at us in that picture, even then we had no idea how to use space.
Great Picture - we were playing west ham - if you look close enough you can see a young Mark Noble in their midfield
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: nigel on April 16, 2022, 11:05:31 PM
I like Fred Rinder's plan to get us to 120,000 in 1914...

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Villa_Park_Proposed_Extension_1914.png)
How big are those ends to have a capacity of 120000? Reckon you're maybe looking at 16000 tops in the Witton Lane + Trinity Road stands, so ... 52k capacity?

Back then when the Holte was standing I think the original capacity would have been about 35000 (I’ve heard it was more), so increase by half again gives your 52000. Mirror that at the Witton End and there you go
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 16, 2022, 11:06:44 PM
There was also standing in the Trinity & Witton Lane.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on April 17, 2022, 03:59:57 AM
Maybe a smart, sloping roof that has lots of angled bits to reflect light back onto the surrounding area, or something fancy like that, would be possible.

The problem is that the sun rises over the Trinity, so going higher on the Witton Lane just casts a bigger shadow.

Maybe they could sell the houses at put Blose there instead.
think you’ve got it the wrong way round mate. The sun sets behind the trinity. Geek that I am - I looked at it on Google Earth yesterday. I reckon both footpaths are about 2m wide and the road itself is about 8m wide. If they built out across the road like with the trinity and took a 1m strip of the park for the supporting steel columns, you’d effectively have a 3 storey facade with probably 25-30m separation from the backs of the houses.

If it was built similar to the trinity with the cantilevered roof the facade could probably be a bit lower than the current facade and I reckon you’d probably get an additional 13 rows (~2000) of seating along the whole side of the ground. Whether or not it would stack up cost wise to add 13 extra rows is another matter, though it would also solve the problem of the current stand being cramped and people wanting to leave after 75 minutes because their knees are fkd from scraping the back of the seat in front.

 But my point is that it could probably be done without much impact on the neighbouring houses, in terms of loss of light or overshadowing. To do it I reckon we’d have to knock the whole thing down and start again. I think when the Witton lane was expanded they left the original bottom tier in place.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on April 17, 2022, 06:52:23 AM
But my point is that it could probably be done without much impact on the neighbouring houses, in terms of loss of light or overshadowing. To do it I reckon we’d have to knock the whole thing down and start again. I think when the Witton lane was expanded they left the original bottom tier in place.
Wasn't there a reason for that, though? Seem to remember my dad saying it was listed or something like that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on April 17, 2022, 07:26:15 AM
i think originally they left the bottom tier but then had to go back and rebuild it when they built the upper tier .  I seem to remember issues with asbestos ??
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on April 17, 2022, 08:01:53 AM
i think originally they left the bottom tier but then had to go back and rebuild it when they built the upper tier .  I seem to remember issues with asbestos ??

<cough> Ellis on the cheap<\cough>
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 17, 2022, 09:15:42 AM
But my point is that it could probably be done without much impact on the neighbouring houses, in terms of loss of light or overshadowing. To do it I reckon we’d have to knock the whole thing down and start again. I think when the Witton lane was expanded they left the original bottom tier in place.
Wasn't there a reason for that, though? Seem to remember my dad saying it was listed or something like that.

Ellis was doing it on the cheap.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on April 17, 2022, 09:27:28 AM
But my point is that it could probably be done without much impact on the neighbouring houses, in terms of loss of light or overshadowing. To do it I reckon we’d have to knock the whole thing down and start again. I think when the Witton lane was expanded they left the original bottom tier in place.
Wasn't there a reason for that, though? Seem to remember my dad saying it was listed or something like that.

Ellis was doing it on the cheap.
Ah, that makes sense. Can remember at the time it was built him boasting about how Villa were the only club to have built their own stand, then going in there when it was newly opened and thinking "yeah, you can tell ..."

Was a kitchen porter for a bit at Villa, hated working in the Doug Ellis stand. The drain holes are raised above the level of the rest of the kitchen floor, so was a nightmare whenever the floor got wet ... for example, when you deep cleaned it every week ... cos you'd spend seemingly hours trying to push puddles of water uphill with a mop.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on April 17, 2022, 09:41:20 AM
Ha! Mine and Dave’s contempt coming to the fore there. The current version of Villa Park is a ramshackle mess of development, ill thought through and lacking in the basics of supporter comfort. It’s no surprise that 75% of this was overseen by Ellis, a man for whom the thought of doing anything other than the bare minimum cost option was completely alien to him. Lerner put some nice wallpaper up but unpicking the Ellis short term knee jerk reaction to the Taylor Report will take a long while.

I’ve said it numerous times on here, they got all 3 stands wrong my particular bugbear being the 2 tier Holte.

It’s good to hear Purslow talk about a 3 phase development of the ground, it’s sorely needed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on April 17, 2022, 09:44:35 AM
Ha! Mine and Dave’s contempt coming to the fore there. The current version of Villa Park is a ramshackle mess of development, ill thought through and lacking in the basics of supporter comfort. It’s no surprise that 75% of this was overseen by Ellis, a man for whom the thought of doing anything other than the bare minimum cost option was completely alien to him. Lerner put some nice wallpaper up but unpicking the Ellis short term knee jerk reaction to the Taylor Report will take a long while.

I’ve said it numerous times on here, they got all 3 stands wrong my particular bugbear being the 2 tier Holte.

It’s good to hear Purslow talk about a 3 phase development of the ground, it’s sorely needed.



and yet we still all love ❤️ the place 😃
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rico on April 17, 2022, 09:47:29 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/R2PhhjJ/77e056fe8e08a81ea682a393210df010.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R2PhhjJ)

What a picture! Let's hope the new development captures our magnificent history. Make it big, make it grand. Give AVFC a legacy that will live on for generations.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on April 17, 2022, 09:54:42 AM
Ha! Mine and Dave’s contempt coming to the fore there. The current version of Villa Park is a ramshackle mess of development, ill thought through and lacking in the basics of supporter comfort. It’s no surprise that 75% of this was overseen by Ellis, a man for whom the thought of doing anything other than the bare minimum cost option was completely alien to him. Lerner put some nice wallpaper up but unpicking the Ellis short term knee jerk reaction to the Taylor Report will take a long while.

I’ve said it numerous times on here, they got all 3 stands wrong my particular bugbear being the 2 tier Holte.

It’s good to hear Purslow talk about a 3 phase development of the ground, it’s sorely needed.



and yet we still all love ❤️ the place 😃

That’s because of us, and the aura , the location and the history not because of the inanimate physical infrastructure though it does have some redeeming features.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 17, 2022, 10:00:45 AM
Excuse me for going over old ground, but we built three new stands in seven years, none of which were designed with any sort of overall plan in mind and the only time any of them looked even vaguely like another part of the ground it was based on the stand which was due to go next. The only thing any of them had in common was that they all fitted the prevailing club ethos of "How much for cash?"
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on April 17, 2022, 10:46:42 AM
Whenever there was major redevelopment at VP, Ellis seemed to be having some sort of work done at his Four Oaks house by the same builders. Far be it from me to infer that a multi million dollar contract was awarded on the basis that a couple of rooms extension was thrown in and covered on the AVFC bill, I'm sure it was just a coincidence.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on April 17, 2022, 10:48:07 AM
If it wraps around with the Trinity, so the lower tier is the height of tier 1 and 2, with the upper of the new North wrapping with tier 3, we also add more capacity into the Trinity. Don't forget that like the Upper Holte, the Upper Trinity is angled too. It would be an absolute monster if that was the plan and would maximise space.

I think you can do more on the same real estate with the Witton. It has an inordinate amount of steel in it and you'd think with 30 years, it would be possible to do something.

There was an asbestos issue with the old Witton, might have had something to do with why we built on top of the old stand. Or it could just be that was cheaper.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 17, 2022, 10:55:26 AM
The stand was opened during 1993-94. It was built over the old stand and there were problems with sightlines in the Lower which was due to be sorted in summer 1995, and during that work the asbestos problem was discovered. Buy cheap, buy twice. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on April 17, 2022, 11:00:08 AM
The Doug way. The narcissism to name a disaster of a build after yourself too. I'm definitely no architect, but I wonder if you could build bigger on the same site and use a New North or the Holte to help with space.

Villa Park is wonderful, but I think part of its charm.is how terribly we have utilised the immense space we have. There's wastage everywhere.

Edit: found an interesting new word for the filter? Calam-ity = captain?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on April 17, 2022, 11:16:08 AM
It would be fitting for that stand to be the first (if any) that is given over to sponsorship. Even. Ore so if it were Thomas Cook.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: nigel on April 17, 2022, 11:24:11 AM
There was also standing in the Trinity & Witton Lane.

Ha Ha,
I hadn’t given that a thought
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on April 17, 2022, 11:31:28 AM
Ha! Mine and Dave’s contempt coming to the fore there. The current version of Villa Park is a ramshackle mess of development, ill thought through and lacking in the basics of supporter comfort. It’s no surprise that 75% of this was overseen by Ellis, a man for whom the thought of doing anything other than the bare minimum cost option was completely alien to him. Lerner put some nice wallpaper up but unpicking the Ellis short term knee jerk reaction to the Taylor Report will take a long while.

I’ve said it numerous times on here, they got all 3 stands wrong my particular bugbear being the 2 tier Holte.

It’s good to hear Purslow talk about a 3 phase development of the ground, it’s sorely needed.

Re the two tier Holte, didn’t we just copy the new North Bank stand at Highbury? Rather than come up with something original?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on April 17, 2022, 11:49:14 AM
There was also standing in the Trinity & Witton Lane.

Ha Ha,
I hadn’t given that a thought

Standing on the Witton side was before my time but I did stand in the Trinity enclosure a few times before they put in the blue seats and private boxes. It would be open for Central League reserve games or you could pay (6d or 1/- ?) at 1st team games to go through the transfer turnstile from the Holte or Witton terrace.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on April 17, 2022, 12:03:30 PM
It's amazing the things you remember.  When I became a regular attender with the old man he used to take me into the paddock of the old Witton Lane stand and we always stood alongside a vicar and I believe his two daughters.  I always loved it in there and can't remember why we transferred into the Witton End.  My very first season ticket was in the re-vamped Witton Lane Stand around about 1968/69.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on April 17, 2022, 12:36:22 PM
I always think with the Witton Lane ,  could they make it more cantilevered not necessarily higher to gain more space over the road ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: maidstonevillain on April 17, 2022, 12:42:57 PM
It's amazing the things you remember.  When I became a regular attender with the old man he used to take me into the paddock of the old Witton Lane stand and we always stood alongside a vicar and I believe his two daughters.  I always loved it in there and can't remember why we transferred into the Witton End.  My very first season ticket was in the re-vamped Witton Lane Stand around about 1968/69.

My first games were standing in the Trinity.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clark W Griswold on April 17, 2022, 12:46:49 PM
I think the ground looks pretty excellent from inside especially when viewed from the Wilton stand. Whatever redevelopment they do I’d like each side to be unique from the others, kind of like it is now but just bigger and more modern on the North stand and Witton. It’s so much better than all the soulless recently built stadia that all look the same as each other.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on April 17, 2022, 01:09:41 PM
I think the ground looks pretty excellent from inside especially when viewed from the Wilton stand. Whatever redevelopment they do I’d like each side to be unique from the others, kind of like it is now but just bigger and more modern on the North stand and Witton. It’s so much better than all the soulless recently built stadia that all look the same as each other.



yep just different seat colours
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on April 17, 2022, 01:28:12 PM
I think the ground looks pretty excellent from inside especially when viewed from the Wilton stand. Whatever redevelopment they do I’d like each side to be unique from the others, kind of like it is now but just bigger and more modern on the North stand and Witton. It’s so much better than all the soulless recently built stadia that all look the same as each other.



yep just different seat colours

Shame we can't have wooden seats. IIRC the old Witton had wooden slatted seats and backs in a sort of medium oak colour. The Upper Trinity had a solid wooden seat with a back rest in what seemed about four coats of black paint.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on April 17, 2022, 01:37:56 PM
There’s a lot going on in this photo of the ground taken during the Springsteen concert

https://twitter.com/brumpic/status/1515354185100931075?s=21&t=CR875jlH9w48zlYLx1xfcg
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: oldhill_avfc on April 17, 2022, 02:25:46 PM
I'm actually a little surprised there hasn't been a serious feasibility study into moving Villa out of Witton. American sport seems to have little problem with ripping up tradition and building afresh, and one of our owners obviously comes from that milieu. Playing devil's advocate, it solves any crowding/parking/facilities problems. I personally want us to stay at VP and be huge, as do our owners by the looks of it, and that's great. But once you've done the North Stand, you're a bit stumped.

NFL team owners are very adept at "blackmailing" local and state authorities into funding new stadiums in order to keep teams in their area because of the prestige involved in having an NFL team and the fear of losing them to somewhere else. For example Buffalo Bills have just released plans for a new stadium to be built near their existing ground. The cost is estimated at $1.4bn, with the local authority stumping up $250m and the state $600m, with the "contributions" being paid from local taxes. Because most cities only have one team, it's much easier to get the local population to buy into the idea of paying the extra rax because in some way it's an affirmation of local identity and pride.

Somehow I can't see the City of Brum, or local Bluenoses being prepared  to be so generous.

Putting the finances aside where in the area is there a space big enough for a brand new stadium? 

In reality you're looking for an old industrial site which is no longer needed because the business that was there has either gone busy or moved out.

Longbridge would have been ideal size-wise, plenty of room for a state of the art stadium and for all the  car parking and hospitality that you could ever want. Furthermore the old Austin site had railway lines serving it for freight purposes, so I guess a new passenger station could have been built - but Northfield/Rubery a long way from Aston.

Another alternative, which is right on our doorstep and which I am sure would have been more acceptable to fans in terms of proximity to Villa Park waa the old IMI site just up the road from Witton Station, but that has now been redeveloped into a shed land of industrial units.

Guess we're stuck where we are.

There's enough space on the existing site + adjacent roads behind the Witton Lane stand to do pretty much everything needed.

This would mean getting the council on board and convincing them join in with a significant regeneration project which would allow for compulsory purchase of the houses.  The housing stock in the area is very poor so it might be a win-win for all concerned.  I think is more in line with what Spurs have done (as opposed to Liverpool).

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on April 17, 2022, 02:27:04 PM
Are Dr Xia's Smart Aston plans available to read on the net, for the craic?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 17, 2022, 02:32:12 PM
Are Dr Xia's Smart Aston plans available to read on the net, for the craic?

I don't think they ever existed anywhere outside his head.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 17, 2022, 02:54:39 PM
Are Dr Xia's Smart Aston plans available to read on the net, for the craic?

I don't think they ever existed anywhere outside his head.

Recon Group. The biggest company on the world with absolutely no internet presence, and nobody online who appeared to work there.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on April 17, 2022, 02:55:40 PM
Wonder if we'll ever find out who really owned us.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on April 17, 2022, 02:58:55 PM
I like Fred Rinder's plan to get us to 120,000 in 1914...

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Villa_Park_Proposed_Extension_1914.png)


I like the stadium design, but it looks like we were trying to play out from the back even then.

You can tell by looking at us in that picture, even then we had no idea how to use space.
Great Picture - we were playing west ham - if you look close enough you can see a young Mark Noble in their midfield

Lol
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on April 17, 2022, 06:22:02 PM
Wonder if we'll ever find out who really owned us.

I still reckon it was Beijing Red for Life.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on April 17, 2022, 06:41:29 PM
Wonder if we'll ever find out who really owned us.

I still reckon it was Beijing Red for Life.

With the ghost of Booby Charlton as a silent partner.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FatSam on April 17, 2022, 10:29:00 PM
What about adapting it as a sitting on laps stand? Could double capacity that way.
Alright, thanks for that Antoine de Caunes…
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FatSam on April 17, 2022, 10:34:48 PM
I always think with the Witton Lane ,  could they make it more cantilevered not necessarily higher to gain more space over the road ?
Any increase in the height/ depth of the stand will inevitably impact the properties to the north in terms of daylight/ sunlight. Some impact might be considered acceptable, in which case a marginal increase in height/ depth might be possible - but probably wouldn’t justify the expense of rebuilding the stand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FatSam on April 17, 2022, 10:43:41 PM
But my point is that it could probably be done without much impact on the neighbouring houses, in terms of loss of light or overshadowing. To do it I reckon we’d have to knock the whole thing down and start again. I think when the Witton lane was expanded they left the original bottom tier in place.
Wasn't there a reason for that, though? Seem to remember my dad saying it was listed or something like that.

Ellis was doing it on the cheap.
Ah, that makes sense. Can remember at the time it was built him boasting about how Villa were the only club to have built their own stand, then going in there when it was newly opened and thinking "yeah, you can tell ..."

Was a kitchen porter for a bit at Villa, hated working in the Doug Ellis stand. The drain holes are raised above the level of the rest of the kitchen floor, so was a nightmare whenever the floor got wet ... for example, when you deep cleaned it every week ... cos you'd spend seemingly hours trying to push puddles of water uphill with a mop.
Yes, Ellis was very proud of the fact that the redevelopment was delivered by an in-house construction manger. Basically this means that he was able to save a main contractor’s profit and overheads from the cost, and very clearly demonstrates where his priorities lay. I would imagine that the build had to be kept quite simple to be delivered this way, which would explain the unambitious design.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 17, 2022, 11:01:57 PM
The ground redevelopment summed up Villa in the nineties. Take the cheap option wherever possible and make sure that the finished product looked a bit better than what it replaced. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FatSam on April 17, 2022, 11:09:23 PM
Thinking back to 1993 (or presumably 1992) when the Witton Lane rebuild was conceived, there was obviously a scramble to comply with the Taylor Report, and the Premier League was only just starting out. Bringing the stand up to a 10k all-seater capacity probably felt like a pretty good outcome at the time, with only Leeds having a significantly larger side stand. It’s the lack of a long term plan though, as Dave intimated earlier, which is regrettable. Certainly no attention to what makes Villa Park special, and how to reinforce it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on April 18, 2022, 10:41:46 AM
Thinking back to 1993 (or presumably 1992) when the Witton Lane rebuild was conceived, there was obviously a scramble to comply with the Taylor Report, and the Premier League was only just starting out. Bringing the stand up to a 10k all-seater capacity probably felt like a pretty good outcome at the time, with only Leeds having a significantly larger side stand. It’s the lack of a long term plan though, as Dave intimated earlier, which is regrettable. Certainly no attention to what makes Villa Park special, and how to reinforce it.

The only thing going for Doug in that time was the limited time available for the govt grants to help with conversion to all seater from recollection. However as Dave said it was always the lowest cost cheap option with little thought beyond whats ok for now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan82 on April 18, 2022, 10:43:05 AM
I hate to be negative but is there a chance, with the unprofessional way our first team downed tools and gave up on 1/3 of this season, that the demand for tickets won't be the same next year?

I think we could be walking into a bit of a catch-22 here. I am so angry with the way the season petered out. It is shameful.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rico on April 18, 2022, 10:43:42 AM
I hope that when the redevelopment of Villa Park is complete that we are left with a truly world class stadium, something even a bit "bat shit crazy," not just another run of the mill stadium.

For me, I would do it in three phases:

Phase 1: New North Stand. Make it gigantic single tier stand that holds at least 20k.

Phase 2: New Holte End. Again,  make it a gigantic single tier stand.  I know it probably would be smaller in terms of capacity than the new North Stand because of the way the two roads hem it in, but it would be superb to have a giant stand at each end of the ground.

Phase 3: New DE Stand. I would make this the corporate hub of the ground. Keep the bottom tier as it is, maybe increase the leg room between the aisles and improve the communal areas underneath the stand, but I would replace the top tier with row upon row of executive boxes like the ones that they have in the corner of the Holte/Trinity.

Oh and AV floodlights of course, and no corrugated metal sheeting anywhere other than on the roof.

Like I say, a bit crazy, but definitely unique.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan82 on April 18, 2022, 10:46:40 AM
The current Holte is my favourite stand in world football, wouldn't want it replaced.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: N'ZMAV on April 18, 2022, 10:48:50 AM
is safe standing happening as part of this redevelopment?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 18, 2022, 10:52:06 AM
Rico.Executive boxes is not where the money is and is not efficient on a £per sq foot measurement.
It will be executive seating and corporate hospitality areas.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on April 18, 2022, 10:55:59 AM
The current Holte is my favourite stand in world football, wouldn't want it replaced.

Completely ruined being two tier and the lower rake is far too shallow. It needs to be knocked down and made single tier with safe standing top to bottom. I'd agree the facade at the back of it is superb and the mural is a thing of wondrous beauty but the Holte Suite and Lower concourse is pitifully small considering the space available. Also get rid of the car park and create a fan park.   
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Pete3206 on April 18, 2022, 10:56:45 AM
I hate to be negative but is there a chance, with the unprofessional way our first team downed tools and gave up on 1/3 of this season, that the demand for tickets won't be the same next year?

I think we could be walking into a bit of a catch-22 here. I am so angry with the way the season petered out. It is shameful.

I think you're onto something there. After all, it's not that long ago that the Trinity top tier wasn't even open.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rico on April 18, 2022, 11:00:44 AM
Good point about the executive boxes. Problem is that takes us back to the initial problem with the DE Stand of limited space. Maybe if we can increase the capacity in other areas of the ground we could decrease the capacity in that stand to make it a more enjoyable experience from a supporters point of view,  but still redevelop it so that it is fit for the 21st century.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dante Lavelli on April 18, 2022, 11:08:22 AM
is safe standing happening as part of this redevelopment?

I’m sure it was mentioned by Purslow but I don’t think he was specific about how much and where.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 18, 2022, 11:09:38 AM
He's said it won't be part of the North Stand, I think.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 18, 2022, 11:24:20 AM
I am not sure what they can do with the DE. Any changes that affect the residents of Witton Lane will be contested and take a very long time to get underway if at all.
The opportunity to increase capacity, comfort and revenue is the North Stand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on April 18, 2022, 01:27:52 PM
He's said it won't be part of the North Stand, I think.

Correct.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on April 18, 2022, 04:36:50 PM
Phase 1: New North Stand. Make it gigantic single tier stand that holds at least 20k...

Oh and AV floodlights of course.
They won't do that with the North. Corporate will be in there, and I doubt they'd shove it to the top/back of the stand because people paying for corporate will want as good a view as is possible.

AV floodlights would be a great nod to the past.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 18, 2022, 04:38:01 PM
Can we have a gable, please?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on April 18, 2022, 04:40:49 PM
Can we have a gable, please?


like Clarke ?   but yes that would be fantastic
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on April 18, 2022, 04:51:13 PM
I am not sure what they can do with the DE. Any changes that affect the residents of Witton Lane will be contested and take a very long time to get underway if at all.
The opportunity to increase capacity, comfort and revenue is the North Stand.
The North Stand is definitely the easy win out of the 4 stands. The Witton Lane is a tricky one, I'd guess that's maybe the place to consider safe standing as a way to increase capacity without changing the profile of the stand too much.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 18, 2022, 05:01:40 PM
Can we have a gable, please?

like Clarke ?   but yes that would be fantastic

You mean Clarke Gabl?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 18, 2022, 05:04:03 PM
Are Dr Xia's Smart Aston plans available to read on the net, for the craic?

I don't think they ever existed anywhere outside his head.

Wasn't he supposed to have had a meeting with the council about it? Mind you knowing them they probably ran out the door when he suggested they extended the tram network to serve Aston Pleasure Beach.

Think I can also remember Steve Bruce claiming at his opening press conference he'd seen the plans...but that could've just been colour drawings of the hot dog stand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 18, 2022, 05:06:03 PM
I am not sure what they can do with the DE. Any changes that affect the residents of Witton Lane will be contested and take a very long time to get underway if at all.
The opportunity to increase capacity, comfort and revenue is the North Stand.
The North Stand is definitely the easy win out of the 4 stands. The Witton Lane is a tricky one, I'd guess that's maybe the place to consider safe standing as a way to increase capacity without changing the profile of the stand too much.

Increasing capacity is just going to make the accompanying facilties even less adequate, though. I'm not sure we would be allowed to do that, there isn't enough room to add in the extra fire escapes and toilets that a larger crowd requires by law.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on April 18, 2022, 05:06:59 PM
Think I can also remember Steve Bruce claiming at his opening press conference he'd seen the plans...but that could've just been colour drawings of the hot dog stand.
That did make me smirk.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on April 18, 2022, 05:09:07 PM
Increasing capacity is just going to make the accompanying facilties even less adequate, though. I'm not sure we would be allowed to do that, there isn't enough room to add in the extra fire escapes and toilets that a larger crowd requires by law.
I noticed that a new tunnel-like feature had appeared in the away end. I wondered what it's purpose was, but presumably there won't be one in the new North Stand, so a replacement was needed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 18, 2022, 05:10:58 PM
Wonder if it's feasible to sink the pitch a bit.

I always like grounds where you're effectively looking down at the action. Loads of Italian and Spanish stadia are like this and probably best example in England is Charlton's away end.

Would mean everyone in Holte and Trinity is looking down on the action and could possibly get a couple of extra thousand seats for the Witton although lots to do for a couple more thousand and as said you'd still need extra entrance and exit seats and can't see where they'd go.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 18, 2022, 05:19:31 PM
We would have to build a portable ramp to enable Cash to do his long throws.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on April 18, 2022, 05:29:19 PM
Can we have a gable, please?

like Clarke ?   but yes that would be fantastic

You mean Clarke Gabl?


i have spelt clark wrong haven’t i ? 😳😃
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 18, 2022, 06:34:57 PM
Can we have a gable, please?

like Clarke ?   but yes that would be fantastic

You mean Clarke Gabl?

i have spelt clark wrong haven’t i ? 😳😃

Don't worry, it's not the first time it's happened on here. :)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on April 18, 2022, 06:42:44 PM
I am not sure what they can do with the DE. Any changes that affect the residents of Witton Lane will be contested and take a very long time to get underway if at all.
The opportunity to increase capacity, comfort and revenue is the North Stand.
The North Stand is definitely the easy win out of the 4 stands. The Witton Lane is a tricky one, I'd guess that's maybe the place to consider safe standing as a way to increase capacity without changing the profile of the stand too much.

Increasing capacity is just going to make the accompanying facilties even less adequate, though. I'm not sure we would be allowed to do that, there isn't enough room to add in the extra fire escapes and toilets that a larger crowd requires by law.
The accompanying facilities aren't a problem if you're knocking it down, though, surely? Demolish it, rebuild with safe standing, can be roughly the same size without affecting the light for anyone nearby .. could quite reasonably get a 4k+ capacity increase to push us close to 55k with the new North Stand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 18, 2022, 07:03:41 PM
Wonder if it's feasible to sink the pitch a bit.

I always like grounds where you're effectively looking down at the action. Loads of Italian and Spanish stadia are like this and probably best example in England is Charlton's away end.

Would mean everyone in Holte and Trinity is looking down on the action and could possibly get a couple of extra thousand seats for the Witton although lots to do for a couple more thousand and as said you'd still need extra entrance and exit seats and can't see where they'd go.

The water table would scupper that idea, literally.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Stu82 on April 18, 2022, 07:15:36 PM
Wonder if it's feasible to sink the pitch a bit.

I always like grounds where you're effectively looking down at the action. Loads of Italian and Spanish stadia are like this and probably best example in England is Charlton's away end.

Would mean everyone in Holte and Trinity is looking down on the action and could possibly get a couple of extra thousand seats for the Witton although lots to do for a couple more thousand and as said you'd still need extra entrance and exit seats and can't see where they'd go.

The water table would scupper that idea, literally.

Isn't the pitch where the boating like was?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 18, 2022, 07:58:28 PM
Wonder if it's feasible to sink the pitch a bit.

I always like grounds where you're effectively looking down at the action. Loads of Italian and Spanish stadia are like this and probably best example in England is Charlton's away end.

Would mean everyone in Holte and Trinity is looking down on the action and could possibly get a couple of extra thousand seats for the Witton although lots to do for a couple more thousand and as said you'd still need extra entrance and exit seats and can't see where they'd go.

The water table would scupper that idea, literally.

Isn't the pitch where the boating like was?

I think so, but although that was man-made so wouldn't be a problem, there's been trouble with the water levels since Ansell's closed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on April 18, 2022, 08:06:48 PM
Wonder if it's feasible to sink the pitch a bit.

I always like grounds where you're effectively looking down at the action. Loads of Italian and Spanish stadia are like this and probably best example in England is Charlton's away end.

Would mean everyone in Holte and Trinity is looking down on the action and could possibly get a couple of extra thousand seats for the Witton although lots to do for a couple more thousand and as said you'd still need extra entrance and exit seats and can't see where they'd go.

The water table would scupper that idea, literally.

Isn't the pitch where the boating like was?

I think so, but although that was man-made so wouldn't be a problem, there's been trouble with the water levels since Ansell's closed.
Sinking the pitch would be expensive and complicated and what would it actually achieve? It's one of the craziest ideas I've heard on this subject.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 18, 2022, 08:14:02 PM
Isn't it already below street level? From recollection of my relatively recent relocation to the bottom left hand corner of the Holte adjacent to the lower Trinity, in front of the wheelchair spaces, there's 13 rows that have to walk upstairs to get out of the ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 18, 2022, 08:35:03 PM
Struggling to think of anything more disruptive, difficult, impractical and not hugely rewarding (think about the maths in this) than lowering the pitch.

It reminds me of "Raise the Titanic? It would have been cheaper to lower the Atlantic".
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FatSam on April 18, 2022, 10:05:32 PM
If there was more space on the Witton Lane side, then lowering the pitch could have been a way to retain the old Trinity, if we were prepared to rebuild the Witton End and Witton Lane stands at the same time (notwithstanding any water table issues). The old Porto stadium did this, but was much easier due to being a bowl. There isn’t a precedent in the UK for such a drastic reconfiguration of an existing ground as far as I’m aware. The pitch was moved at Molineaux, but they ended up with that massive space around the pitch, as they couldn’t afford to complete the plan until Jack Haywood came along.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 18, 2022, 10:31:26 PM
What if we raise all the houses? They won't complain about us adding a tier or two onto the Witton Lane Stand if they all live in thirty storey properties. There can't be that many houses in Aston, would only cost a few quid.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on April 18, 2022, 10:34:56 PM
Those houses are more likely to be razed than raised.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: tomd2103 on April 19, 2022, 01:05:44 AM
The logistics of reconfiguring the stadium are one thing, but how on earth would an extra 10,000 - 15,000 people get in and out of the area on a matchday? 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on April 19, 2022, 02:00:42 AM
The logistics of reconfiguring the stadium are one thing, but how on earth would an extra 10,000 - 15,000 people get in and out of the area on a matchday? 
Let’s hope they are all wankers and leave early.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: astonvilla82 on April 19, 2022, 06:35:30 AM
The logistics of reconfiguring the stadium are one thing, but how on earth would an extra 10,000 - 15,000 people get in and out of the area on a matchday? 
Let’s hope they are all wankers and leave early.
Ouch
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on April 19, 2022, 07:37:01 AM
I always think with the Witton Lane ,  could they make it more cantilevered not necessarily higher to gain more space over the road ?
Any increase in the height/ depth of the stand will inevitably impact the properties to the north in terms of daylight/ sunlight. Some impact might be considered acceptable, in which case a marginal increase in height/ depth might be possible - but probably wouldn’t justify the expense of rebuilding the stand.
the main problem we’d be trying to address by re-building the Witton Lane would be making the existing seating and concourse areas less cramped/shit. And if we can do that and also add a couple of thousand extra seats, it may make sense to do it if the money’s there.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Neil Hawkes on April 19, 2022, 07:49:44 AM
Wonder if it's feasible to sink the pitch a bit.

I always like grounds where you're effectively looking down at the action. Loads of Italian and Spanish stadia are like this and probably best example in England is Charlton's away end.

Would mean everyone in Holte and Trinity is looking down on the action and could possibly get a couple of extra thousand seats for the Witton although lots to do for a couple more thousand and as said you'd still need extra entrance and exit seats and can't see where they'd go.

The water table would scupper that idea, literally.

Isn't the pitch where the boating like was?

I think so, but although that was man-made so wouldn't be a problem, there's been trouble with the water levels since Ansell's closed.
Sinking the pitch would be expensive and complicated and what would it actually achieve? It's one of the craziest ideas I've heard on this subject.
Is it possible to move the pitch towards the North Stand, (when it goes and before the new one is built), to allow extensions of the Holte, Trinity & Witton at the other end?
NOTE: I am not a civil engineer!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 19, 2022, 08:50:29 AM
Why don't we suspend a glass floor below a huge Zeppelin and float over the pitch during the game.
Then the Zepellin can float back to New Street Station, picking ip passengers on the way and thus solve the Transport problem
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: darren woolley on April 19, 2022, 09:22:17 AM
I don't want the corners filled in when they build the new North Stand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on April 19, 2022, 09:47:39 AM
I always think with the Witton Lane ,  could they make it more cantilevered not necessarily higher to gain more space over the road ?
Any increase in the height/ depth of the stand will inevitably impact the properties to the north in terms of daylight/ sunlight. Some impact might be considered acceptable, in which case a marginal increase in height/ depth might be possible - but probably wouldn’t justify the expense of rebuilding the stand.
the main problem we’d be trying to address by re-building the Witton Lane would be making the existing seating and concourse areas less cramped/shit. And if we can do that and also add a couple of thousand extra seats, it may make sense to do it if the money’s there.



Could they concentrate the corporate in there ,  take seats out for more space  and make it just for well heeled brigade

Then make the North Stand the biggest end stand in the world  !
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 19, 2022, 09:53:06 AM
I always think with the Witton Lane ,  could they make it more cantilevered not necessarily higher to gain more space over the road ?
Any increase in the height/ depth of the stand will inevitably impact the properties to the north in terms of daylight/ sunlight. Some impact might be considered acceptable, in which case a marginal increase in height/ depth might be possible - but probably wouldn’t justify the expense of rebuilding the stand.
the main problem we’d be trying to address by re-building the Witton Lane would be making the existing seating and concourse areas less cramped/shit. And if we can do that and also add a couple of thousand extra seats, it may make sense to do it if the money’s there.



Could they concentrate the corporate in there ,  take seats out for more space  and make it just for well heeled brigade

Then make the North Stand the biggest end stand in the world  !
For corporate, you need space. The DE does not have it.
The reason why they could use the North is because you do not need pitch facing real estate to increase corporate capacity you just need nicer / bigger seats , as the private box offering is so limiting.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on April 19, 2022, 09:57:58 AM
I always think with the Witton Lane ,  could they make it more cantilevered not necessarily higher to gain more space over the road ?
Any increase in the height/ depth of the stand will inevitably impact the properties to the north in terms of daylight/ sunlight. Some impact might be considered acceptable, in which case a marginal increase in height/ depth might be possible - but probably wouldn’t justify the expense of rebuilding the stand.
the main problem we’d be trying to address by re-building the Witton Lane would be making the existing seating and concourse areas less cramped/shit. And if we can do that and also add a couple of thousand extra seats, it may make sense to do it if the money’s there.



Could they concentrate the corporate in there ,  take seats out for more space  and make it just for well heeled brigade

Then make the North Stand the biggest end stand in the world  !
For corporate, you need space. The DE does not have it.
The reason why they could use the North is because you do not need pitch facing real estate to increase corporate capacity you just need nicer / bigger seats , as the private box offering is so limiting.


I would have thought there's more demand for corporate facilities side on to the pitch though, rather than behind the goal?

Maybe just take some seats out of the Witton, build a new 'Sky Lounge' into the roof, and chuck all of the corporate in there, like a giant version of Luton's double glazed conservatory stand.

Then rebuild the other three stands into mahoosive stands instead, job done.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on April 19, 2022, 10:09:28 AM
Me neither Darren. I’ve told the club so in the survey.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on April 19, 2022, 10:29:24 AM
I don't want the corners filled in when they build the new North Stand.
A lot of peole agree with you Darren and I completely get that aethetics are a huge part of what Villa Park means to many of us.  But the reality is even with 50k seats we'll still only have the 9th largest stadium in the PL (5 of those 60k + once Anfield expansion is complete).  With all the revenue based FFP regs there's going to come a point that IF we can attract enough fans we're going to have to find a way to fit them in.  If that means filling in the corners at the North stand end I could live with it.  A horseshoe with the Holte as a centerpiece would still be a decent looking stadium. 

And let face it, the ground we all go gooyey eyed over doesn't exist any more.  Once the north has gone, all that remains are 3 cheaply built stands, the oldest built in 1993.  So yes, hopefully the new North will be a great design we can be proud of, but if the owners feel we need corners filled in to achieve what they want to, I hope there's not too much resistance from a fan base that will be quick to point out how we continue to underachieve against the 'Big 6,' who other than Chelsea (who timed their billionaire run perfectly), all have filled in corners.  What's more, we're in danger of getting left behind by the likes of West Ham who have an average attendance this season of 57k and the Geordies who have an av attendance of 51k and I presume whose new owners will be looking to increase their 52.5k capacity soon enough.

The North is our one chance to get the stadium right.  What they build will have to see us through for the next 20 years or so, so I truly hope they get it right.  If they can initially keep it as a stand alone then that's great, but surely they must build it with a view to easily and relatively cheaply being able to fill in the corners at a later date as and when we need to? 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on April 19, 2022, 10:33:11 AM
I always think with the Witton Lane ,  could they make it more cantilevered not necessarily higher to gain more space over the road ?
Any increase in the height/ depth of the stand will inevitably impact the properties to the north in terms of daylight/ sunlight. Some impact might be considered acceptable, in which case a marginal increase in height/ depth might be possible - but probably wouldn’t justify the expense of rebuilding the stand.
the main problem we’d be trying to address by re-building the Witton Lane would be making the existing seating and concourse areas less cramped/shit. And if we can do that and also add a couple of thousand extra seats, it may make sense to do it if the money’s there.



Could they concentrate the corporate in there ,  take seats out for more space  and make it just for well heeled brigade

Then make the North Stand the biggest end stand in the world  !
For corporate, you need space. The DE does not have it.
The reason why they could use the North is because you do not need pitch facing real estate to increase corporate capacity you just need nicer / bigger seats , as the private box offering is so limiting.


I would have thought there's more demand for corporate facilities side on to the pitch though, rather than behind the goal?

Maybe just take some seats out of the Witton, build a new 'Sky Lounge' into the roof, and chuck all of the corporate in there, like a giant version of Luton's double glazed conservatory stand.

Then rebuild the other three stands into mahoosive stands instead, job done.
That effort at Luton is an abomination and an affront to stadium design Making the Witton Lane into a larger version of that would be absolutely horrible. I don't think even old Herbert could have dreamed up something so ghastly. Your comment could be a tongue in cheek joke that's gone right over my head in which case I apologise in advance.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on April 19, 2022, 10:35:11 AM
I don't want the corners filled in when they build the new North Stand.
A lot of peole agree with you Darren and I completely get that aethetics are a huge part of what Villa Park means to many of us.  But the reality is even with 50k seats we'll still only have the 9th largest stadium in the PL (5 of those 60k + once Anfield expansion is complete).  With all the revenue based FFP regs there's going to come a point that IF we can attract enough fans we're going to have to find a way to fit them in.  If that means filling in the corners at the North stand end I could live with it.  A horseshoe with the Holte as a centerpiece would still be a decent looking stadium. 

And let face it, the ground we all go gooyey eyed over doesn't exist any more.  Once the north has gone, all that remains are 3 cheaply built stands, the oldest built in 1993.  So yes, hopefully the new North will be a great design we can be proud of, but if the owners feel we need corners filled in to achieve what they want to, I hope there's not too much resistance from a fan base that will be quick to point out how we continue to underachieve against the 'Big 6,' who other than Chelsea (who timed their billionaire run perfectly), all have filled in corners.  What's more, we're in danger of getting left behind by the likes of West Ham who have an average attendance this season of 57k and the Geordies who have an av attendance of 51k and I presume whose new owners will be looking to increase their 52.5k capacity soon enough.

The North is our one chance to get the stadium right.  What they build will have to see us through for the next 20 years or so, so I truly hope they get it right.  If they can initially keep it as a stand alone then that's great, but surely they must build it with a view to easily and relatively cheaply being able to fill in the corners at a later date as and when we need to? 

If we've still got a waiting list of thousands, then I'd guess the people who want a ticket but can't get one would agree that sitting in filled in corners would be better than maintaining four separate stands and watching the match on the TV.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 19, 2022, 10:38:07 AM
Why don't we suspend a glass floor below a huge Zeppelin and float over the pitch during the game.
Then the Zepellin can float back to New Street Station, picking ip passengers on the way and thus solve the Transport problem

Like it, then we could sign that Argie from PSG and call it the 'Messinine Level'. Fancy setting up a Sports Stadium Design/Marketing partnership?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on April 19, 2022, 10:42:01 AM
Wonder if it's feasible to sink the pitch a bit.

I always like grounds where you're effectively looking down at the action. Loads of Italian and Spanish stadia are like this and probably best example in England is Charlton's away end.

Would mean everyone in Holte and Trinity is looking down on the action and could possibly get a couple of extra thousand seats for the Witton although lots to do for a couple more thousand and as said you'd still need extra entrance and exit seats and can't see where they'd go.

The water table would scupper that idea, literally.

Isn't the pitch where the boating like was?

I think so, but although that was man-made so wouldn't be a problem, there's been trouble with the water levels since Ansell's closed.
Sinking the pitch would be expensive and complicated and what would it actually achieve? It's one of the craziest ideas I've heard on this subject.
Is it possible to move the pitch towards the North Stand, (when it goes and before the new one is built), to allow extensions of the Holte, Trinity & Witton at the other end?
NOTE: I am not a civil engineer!
I suppose moving the ground to the north would allow an extension for the Trinity and the Witton (there's already room to extend the Trinity) but at what cost? That would mean that the Holte End would be a long way from the pitch? No way any of that is happening unless of course you knock it down and move it closer to the pitch like Wolves did with the John Ireland stand. There's zero chance of that happening.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on April 19, 2022, 10:42:19 AM
If we've still got a waiting list of thousands, then I'd guess the people who want a ticket but can't get one would agree that sitting in filled in corners would be better than maintaining four separate stands and watching the match on the TV.
Agreed.  IF we can fill it we must build it to keep up.  Although playing Devils advocate, I do wonder if the waiting list is partly fuelled by FOMO.  If we have 55k seats and it's easy enough to get a ticket game by game I do wonder if ST demand could actually drop?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on April 19, 2022, 11:27:13 AM
I always think with the Witton Lane ,  could they make it more cantilevered not necessarily higher to gain more space over the road ?
Any increase in the height/ depth of the stand will inevitably impact the properties to the north in terms of daylight/ sunlight. Some impact might be considered acceptable, in which case a marginal increase in height/ depth might be possible - but probably wouldn’t justify the expense of rebuilding the stand.
the main problem we’d be trying to address by re-building the Witton Lane would be making the existing seating and concourse areas less cramped/shit. And if we can do that and also add a couple of thousand extra seats, it may make sense to do it if the money’s there.



Could they concentrate the corporate in there ,  take seats out for more space  and make it just for well heeled brigade

Then make the North Stand the biggest end stand in the world  !
Why not go the other way?

Make the North Stand 3 tier. Link the bottom & middle tiers of the stands in the North Stand/Trinity Road corner - so both have an extra tier to keep them distinct. Use the 2 biggest stands for corporate stuff. The North Stand will be the main corporate entrance, so make it *grand*. I'm talking putting the Holte & old Trinity Road stand to shame level of grandeur.

Convert the lower Holte to safe standing. Knock the Witton Lane stand down, rebuild it as a single tier, safe standing stand. The Holte & Witton Lane become where the cool kids go, providing a vibrant atmosphere for the corporate types and folk who like a nice sit down.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on April 19, 2022, 11:31:12 AM
Why don't we suspend a glass floor below a huge Zeppelin and float over the pitch during the game.
Then the Zepellin can float back to New Street Station, picking ip passengers on the way and thus solve the Transport problem

That's not the daftest thought you've ever had.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 19, 2022, 11:42:30 AM
Why don't we suspend a glass floor below a huge Zeppelin and float over the pitch during the game.
Then the Zepellin can float back to New Street Station, picking ip passengers on the way and thus solve the Transport problem

That's not the daftest thought you've ever had.
Sad.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 19, 2022, 11:54:23 AM
Fill the corners in at the sitting quietly and knitting end but leave the Holte as a separate stand, please.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on April 19, 2022, 11:56:13 AM
I don't want the corners filled in when they build the new North Stand.
A lot of peole agree with you Darren and I completely get that aethetics are a huge part of what Villa Park means to many of us.  But the reality is even with 50k seats we'll still only have the 9th largest stadium in the PL (5 of those 60k + once Anfield expansion is complete).  With all the revenue based FFP regs there's going to come a point that IF we can attract enough fans we're going to have to find a way to fit them in.  If that means filling in the corners at the North stand end I could live with it.  A horseshoe with the Holte as a centerpiece would still be a decent looking stadium. 

And let face it, the ground we all go gooyey eyed over doesn't exist any more.  Once the north has gone, all that remains are 3 cheaply built stands, the oldest built in 1993.  So yes, hopefully the new North will be a great design we can be proud of, but if the owners feel we need corners filled in to achieve what they want to, I hope there's not too much resistance from a fan base that will be quick to point out how we continue to underachieve against the 'Big 6,' who other than Chelsea (who timed their billionaire run perfectly), all have filled in corners.  What's more, we're in danger of getting left behind by the likes of West Ham who have an average attendance this season of 57k and the Geordies who have an av attendance of 51k and I presume whose new owners will be looking to increase their 52.5k capacity soon enough.

The North is our one chance to get the stadium right.  What they build will have to see us through for the next 20 years or so, so I truly hope they get it right.  If they can initially keep it as a stand alone then that's great, but surely they must build it with a view to easily and relatively cheaply being able to fill in the corners at a later date as and when we need to? 
I saw some designs a couple of months ago and was pretty surprised to see out of the 3 (I think) options presented that the stand-alone no corners option would deliver the biggest capacity increase. If that’s what it is, get it done.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on April 19, 2022, 12:03:29 PM
I don't want the corners filled in when they build the new North Stand.
A lot of peole agree with you Darren and I completely get that aethetics are a huge part of what Villa Park means to many of us.  But the reality is even with 50k seats we'll still only have the 9th largest stadium in the PL (5 of those 60k + once Anfield expansion is complete).  With all the revenue based FFP regs there's going to come a point that IF we can attract enough fans we're going to have to find a way to fit them in.  If that means filling in the corners at the North stand end I could live with it.  A horseshoe with the Holte as a centerpiece would still be a decent looking stadium. 

And let face it, the ground we all go gooyey eyed over doesn't exist any more.  Once the north has gone, all that remains are 3 cheaply built stands, the oldest built in 1993.  So yes, hopefully the new North will be a great design we can be proud of, but if the owners feel we need corners filled in to achieve what they want to, I hope there's not too much resistance from a fan base that will be quick to point out how we continue to underachieve against the 'Big 6,' who other than Chelsea (who timed their billionaire run perfectly), all have filled in corners.  What's more, we're in danger of getting left behind by the likes of West Ham who have an average attendance this season of 57k and the Geordies who have an av attendance of 51k and I presume whose new owners will be looking to increase their 52.5k capacity soon enough.

The North is our one chance to get the stadium right.  What they build will have to see us through for the next 20 years or so, so I truly hope they get it right.  If they can initially keep it as a stand alone then that's great, but surely they must build it with a view to easily and relatively cheaply being able to fill in the corners at a later date as and when we need to? 
I saw some designs a couple of months ago and was pretty surprised to see out of the 3 (I think) options presented that the stand-alone no corners option would deliver the biggest capacity increase. If that’s what it is, get it done.
Yes, build that.  Then fill in the corners.  Simple maths tells me that would increase the number of seats.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on April 19, 2022, 12:33:07 PM
I don't want the corners filled in when they build the new North Stand.
A lot of peole agree with you Darren and I completely get that aethetics are a huge part of what Villa Park means to many of us.  But the reality is even with 50k seats we'll still only have the 9th largest stadium in the PL (5 of those 60k + once Anfield expansion is complete).  With all the revenue based FFP regs there's going to come a point that IF we can attract enough fans we're going to have to find a way to fit them in.  If that means filling in the corners at the North stand end I could live with it.  A horseshoe with the Holte as a centerpiece would still be a decent looking stadium. 

And let face it, the ground we all go gooyey eyed over doesn't exist any more.  Once the north has gone, all that remains are 3 cheaply built stands, the oldest built in 1993.  So yes, hopefully the new North will be a great design we can be proud of, but if the owners feel we need corners filled in to achieve what they want to, I hope there's not too much resistance from a fan base that will be quick to point out how we continue to underachieve against the 'Big 6,' who other than Chelsea (who timed their billionaire run perfectly), all have filled in corners.  What's more, we're in danger of getting left behind by the likes of West Ham who have an average attendance this season of 57k and the Geordies who have an av attendance of 51k and I presume whose new owners will be looking to increase their 52.5k capacity soon enough.

The North is our one chance to get the stadium right.  What they build will have to see us through for the next 20 years or so, so I truly hope they get it right.  If they can initially keep it as a stand alone then that's great, but surely they must build it with a view to easily and relatively cheaply being able to fill in the corners at a later date as and when we need to? 
I saw some designs a couple of months ago and was pretty surprised to see out of the 3 (I think) options presented that the stand-alone no corners option would deliver the biggest capacity increase. If that’s what it is, get it done.


Where are these designs and different options available to view? I’ve seen nothing apart from a North Stand drawing on Twitter that looked like a fan had knocked up.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 19, 2022, 01:53:00 PM
I saw some designs a couple of months ago and was pretty surprised to see out of the 3 (I think) options presented that the stand-alone no corners option would deliver the biggest capacity increase. If that’s what it is, get it done.

Where are these designs and different options available to view? I’ve seen nothing apart from a North Stand drawing on Twitter that looked like a fan had knocked up.

I think he might be referring to an analysis that was done under Lerner and of the 3 options presented then the stand alone North Stand had the highest capacity which was a bit surprising. I'd imagine NSWE have done their own analyses/potential designs.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on April 19, 2022, 01:57:20 PM
Whatever the designs, it's bound to split opinion. Too modern, not modern enough, more for corporate, not enough, kids will love/hate it. Etc.

Just make it big enough, with decent facilities and cheap enough to sit in please, whilst respecting what Aston Villa means to so many people. All the while making sure we do it in harmony with the local community, upon whom we descend 21 times a year (allowing for one pre-season friendly and one home cup match out of the three we play!).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on April 19, 2022, 02:28:47 PM
 
[/quote]I saw some designs a couple of months ago and was pretty surprised to see out of the 3 (I think) options presented that the stand-alone no corners option would deliver the biggest capacity increase. If that’s what it is, get it done.
[/quote]

Where are these images?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on April 19, 2022, 03:56:55 PM
If, as a few have suggested we make the Witton Lane/DE Stand safe standing on the lower tier, are we going to give away fans the same? Surely if you make a tier all safe standing then all of it has to be the same, otherwise the sightlines would be affected for the away seats. I would have thought the club would want to give away fans seats rather than safe standing in an attempt to lessen the vocal impact of them being present. Alternatively, if we move away supporters, where do we put them? It's something that needs to be carefully considered.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: frank black on April 19, 2022, 04:20:09 PM
I imagine if they are going to try safe standing it’ll be in a new space rather than where season ticket holders are sat.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on April 19, 2022, 07:34:56 PM
Walking around up to Dale and o to Castle Street today, Liverpool was again rammed with people on bars and restaurants, self evidently attending tonight's game.

They obviously have a tonne of tourists, but an increase in their capacity from roughly what we have now, to roughly what we're aiming for, is a big boost to the local economy. You'd think that BCC would do everything they could to improve infrastructure, as we will attract more tourists with more match day tickets likely to be available.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on April 19, 2022, 10:06:07 PM
We don’t (or can’t) drink in town, remember. Non starter I’m afraid.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 19, 2022, 11:25:41 PM
I don't think Birmingham City Council are particularly bothered about people drinking in town. They've gone out of their way to discourage it in recent years. They'd rather close all the pubs and convert them to flats for London workers using HS2.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on April 20, 2022, 03:55:45 AM
I don't want the corners filled in when they build the new North Stand.
A lot of peole agree with you Darren and I completely get that aethetics are a huge part of what Villa Park means to many of us.  But the reality is even with 50k seats we'll still only have the 9th largest stadium in the PL (5 of those 60k + once Anfield expansion is complete).  With all the revenue based FFP regs there's going to come a point that IF we can attract enough fans we're going to have to find a way to fit them in.  If that means filling in the corners at the North stand end I could live with it.  A horseshoe with the Holte as a centerpiece would still be a decent looking stadium. 

And let face it, the ground we all go gooyey eyed over doesn't exist any more.  Once the north has gone, all that remains are 3 cheaply built stands, the oldest built in 1993.  So yes, hopefully the new North will be a great design we can be proud of, but if the owners feel we need corners filled in to achieve what they want to, I hope there's not too much resistance from a fan base that will be quick to point out how we continue to underachieve against the 'Big 6,' who other than Chelsea (who timed their billionaire run perfectly), all have filled in corners.  What's more, we're in danger of getting left behind by the likes of West Ham who have an average attendance this season of 57k and the Geordies who have an av attendance of 51k and I presume whose new owners will be looking to increase their 52.5k capacity soon enough.

The North is our one chance to get the stadium right.  What they build will have to see us through for the next 20 years or so, so I truly hope they get it right.  If they can initially keep it as a stand alone then that's great, but surely they must build it with a view to easily and relatively cheaply being able to fill in the corners at a later date as and when we need to? 
I saw some designs a couple of months ago and was pretty surprised to see out of the 3 (I think) options presented that the stand-alone no corners option would deliver the biggest capacity increase. If that’s what it is, get it done.
Yes, build that.  Then fill in the corners.  Simple maths tells me that would increase the number of seats.
Simple practicalities may prevent that, else they’d have likely included that as one of the options.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on April 20, 2022, 09:09:58 AM
I imagine if they are going to try safe standing it’ll be in a new space rather than where season ticket holders are sat.
Surely it will be lower Holte where everyone stands anyway?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 20, 2022, 11:37:56 AM
I imagine if they are going to try safe standing it’ll be in a new space rather than where season ticket holders are sat.
Surely it will be lower Holte where everyone stands anyway?

I quite like the idea (mentioned earlier) of much of the lower Wittton Lane being converted to safe standing if it helps produce an increase in capacity. The Holte, a reinvigorated "North" Stand and safe standing in WL should also help the atmosphere.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on April 20, 2022, 04:09:42 PM
I imagine if they are going to try safe standing it’ll be in a new space rather than where season ticket holders are sat.
Surely it will be lower Holte where everyone stands anyway?
We tend to stand in there anyway. I'd rather they didn't convert it to safe standing, but that's just my opinion.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: oldhill_avfc on April 20, 2022, 04:12:15 PM
Was at Spurs on Saturday, was gutted when the Brighton goal went in ....

Anyhow,  I was in one the safe standing areas at the back of the South Stand.  Obviously everyone was standing as opposed to sitting because they could and the rails were there.

It wasn't a great experience.  The sight lines weren't right and from what I could see there was no way of getting more people on standing compared to sitting when that becomes a possibility.   

If it's not working in such an otherwise brilliant stadium then I wonder whether if it's worth it.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on April 20, 2022, 04:13:54 PM
Was at Spurs on Saturday, was gutted when the Brighton goal went in ....

Anyhow,  I was in one the safe standing areas at the back of the South Stand.  Obviously everyone was standing as opposed to sitting because they could and the rails were there.

It wasn't a great experience.  The sight lines weren't right and from what I could see there was no way of getting more people on standing compared to sitting when that becomes a possibility.   

If it's not working in such an otherwise brilliant stadium then I wonder whether if it's worth it.



I wonder if the safe standing area there was an actually an afterthought so doesn't work as well because they were designed for seats?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on April 20, 2022, 04:23:23 PM
Is safe-standing now "live" in the PL?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: oldhill_avfc on April 20, 2022, 04:30:30 PM
safe standing not live, but it seems that in areas which are prepped for safe standing people stand up (until told not to do so by stewards?)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on April 20, 2022, 04:35:37 PM
I have just done the Stadium Tour .  It is a great place and I imagine it will be even better when they rebuild the North Stand


Interested to see what they will do with the Trinity refurb looks pretty good already
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on April 20, 2022, 06:13:14 PM
Haven't done the tour since 2005. Thinking about doing it end of May when I'm in Brum. Worth doing?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Exeter 77 on April 20, 2022, 07:11:16 PM
Safe standing won't make any difference to capacity of whichever part of a stand it is introduced because the seat, even though it is fixed in the 'up' position to allow you to stand is still sold as a seat.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 20, 2022, 07:20:23 PM
Safe standing won't make any difference to capacity of whichever part of a stand it is introduced because the seat, even though it is fixed in the 'up' position to allow you to stand is still sold as a seat.

According to Purslow technology and new regulations means it's something like 1.8 standing capacity for every old seat.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Exeter 77 on April 20, 2022, 07:24:04 PM
Safe standing won't make any difference to capacity of whichever part of a stand it is introduced because the seat, even though it is fixed in the 'up' position to allow you to stand is still sold as a seat.

According to Purslow technology and new regulations means it's something like 1.8 standing capacity for every old seat.
Really? I didn’t know that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on April 20, 2022, 07:26:47 PM
Safe standing won't make any difference to capacity of whichever part of a stand it is introduced because the seat, even though it is fixed in the 'up' position to allow you to stand is still sold as a seat.

According to Purslow technology and new regulations means it's something like 1.8 standing capacity for every old seat.

Presumably that's only on a rebuild though, rather than retrofitting an existing stand, as sticking rail seating in doesn't increase the capacity of the concourse, toilets, emergency exits, etc which determine the capacity on the safety certificate.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on April 20, 2022, 08:12:08 PM
We've had railing at Stamford Bridge, Tottenham and Anfield so far this season. Can't recall it being elsewhere.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on April 20, 2022, 08:21:45 PM
I have just done the Stadium Tour .  It is a great place and I imagine it will be even better when they rebuild the North Stand


Interested to see what they will do with the Trinity refurb looks pretty good already
Haven't done the tour since 2005. Thinking about doing it end of May when I'm in Brum. Worth doing?


Yes mate i took the kids and their friends they thoroughly enjoyed it The  guide was very good .  Just check it will be available as they are stopping the tours at the end of May as they are refurbing changing rooms
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on April 20, 2022, 08:49:14 PM
Safe standing won't make any difference to capacity of whichever part of a stand it is introduced because the seat, even though it is fixed in the 'up' position to allow you to stand is still sold as a seat.

According to Purslow technology and new regulations means it's something like 1.8 standing capacity for every old seat.

That's interesting, and quite a capacity increase. That's a lot of extra people, and weight, for the stand to cope with.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Richard E on April 20, 2022, 08:53:36 PM
I’ve just got to find 0.8 of a friend to take with me to the match now .
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on April 20, 2022, 08:55:37 PM
Lower Holte would go up to 14,000.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 20, 2022, 09:38:02 PM
I’ve just got to find 0.8 of a friend to take with me to the match now .

We could friend share. I'll find 0.4.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 20, 2022, 10:28:22 PM
Was at Spurs on Saturday, was gutted when the Brighton goal went in ....

Anyhow,  I was in one the safe standing areas at the back of the South Stand.  Obviously everyone was standing as opposed to sitting because they could and the rails were there.

It wasn't a great experience.  The sight lines weren't right and from what I could see there was no way of getting more people on standing compared to sitting when that becomes a possibility.   

If it's not working in such an otherwise brilliant stadium then I wonder whether if it's worth it.



It's simply not going to be like the 70s and 80s with surging crowds after goals and piss running down the sides.

Will be more controlled which it simply has to be, at least be happy clubs are getting the choice now and up to them where and how they implement standing sections.

Was up at the back of the Holte in the corner where Brigada used to be and didn't sit down once during the match so that might be a decent area to convert to some rail seats on a trial basis. Think in the distant past that little corner between Holte and Trinity was mooted aswell.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 20, 2022, 10:31:07 PM
We've had railing at Stamford Bridge, Tottenham and Anfield so far this season. Can't recall it being elsewhere.

Know Chelsea were the first to bring it in, camera cut to all the Man. United fans leaving at 4-0 and could see railings in that section.

It makes sense considering vast majority of away fans stand up in the lower tiers and would imagine it would be pretty easy to put in the lower witton.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 20, 2022, 10:52:59 PM
I’ve just got to find 0.8 of a friend to take with me to the match now .

We could friend share. I'll find 0.4.

Do you know Barry Bannan?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on April 21, 2022, 08:52:34 AM
I'm a bit confused now re the feed back from the FSG meeting on the redev.  I think they said we would be looking at c50k after the first phase.  But David Michael on MOMS said we'd be aiming for 60k in a 10 year plan.  Other than a bit extra from safe standing and maybe filling the corners in at a later date, finding an an extra 10k (from 50 to 60k) after the main north stand is rebuilt sounds ambitious to me.

I'm looking forward to seeing the proposals. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on April 21, 2022, 09:37:31 AM
If you can get 1.8 supporters/fans (take your pick) in per 1 at the moment, then that would give us a good chunk more for doing not very much. Fill in the corners, redevelop the Witton Lane and make it steeper, and you'd be pretty much there.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on April 21, 2022, 09:41:29 AM
I’ve just got to find 0.8 of a friend to take with me to the match now .
Isn’t a friend more of a problem rather than size?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: nigel on April 21, 2022, 09:55:55 AM
I'm a bit confused now re the feed back from the FSG meeting on the redev.  I think they said we would be looking at c50k after the first phase.  But David Michael on MOMS said we'd be aiming for 60k in a 10 year plan.  Other than a bit extra from safe standing and maybe filling the corners in at a later date, finding an an extra 10k (from 50 to 60k) after the main north stand is rebuilt sounds ambitious to me.

I'm looking forward to seeing the proposals.

As it is I suppose the new North Stand development would take the capacity to about 52k (all seating)
If we had the lower Holte and lower Witton Lane as safe standing I’d guess an extra 8k is well within reach.
They could leave Witton Lane alone and, depending on design, have safe standing in the new North Stand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on April 21, 2022, 09:58:06 AM
If you can get 1.8 supporters/fans (take your pick) in per 1 at the moment, then that would give us a good chunk more for doing not very much. Fill in the corners, redevelop the Witton Lane and make it steeper, and you'd be pretty much there.
Possibly.  I remain sceptical that they will allow densities to increase that much for safe standing, but we'll see.

I'm not sure the Witton can be much steeper.  I've only been in there a few times but in the upper i'm pretty sure the seat back in front is more at ankle height than knee height like the Holte.

But if we do have a plan that we could go up to 60k in the future if needed at our current site and the new North stand is built with that in mind then, then I'd be absolutely delighted.  I like aesthetics and tradition, but a ground that allows us to compete at the top level is more improtant to me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on April 21, 2022, 09:58:58 AM
Wasn't it mentioned that there are no plans for safe-standing in this phase of the North Stand development?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on April 21, 2022, 09:59:52 AM
Wasn't it mentioned that there are no plans for safe-standing in this phase of the North Stand development?
Correct, but we can retro fit in lower Holte and possibly Witton if we want.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on April 21, 2022, 10:00:08 AM
I’ve just got to find 0.8 of a friend to take with me to the match now .
Isn’t a friend more of a problem rather than size?

If you chop their head off, that's not really a concern.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on April 21, 2022, 10:02:32 AM
If you can get 1.8 supporters/fans (take your pick) in per 1 at the moment, then that would give us a good chunk more for doing not very much. Fill in the corners, redevelop the Witton Lane and make it steeper, and you'd be pretty much there.
Possibly.  I remain sceptical that they will allow densities to increase that much for safe standing, but we'll see.

I'm not sure the Witton can be much steeper.  I've only been in there a few times but in the upper i'm pretty sure the seat back in front is more at ankle height than knee height like the Holte.

But if we do have a plan that we could go up to 60k in the future if needed at our current site and the new North stand is built with that in mind then, then I'd be absolutely delighted.  I like aesthetics and tradition, but a ground that allows us to compete at the top level is more improtant to me.

I'm sceptical too, it's a big risk letting in a lot more unless much is done to improve safety and emergency exits etc.

I've not been in the Witton for a long time, but I could still see it being steeper. The Parc des Princes is a brilliant stadium for being steep and close to the pitch.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on April 21, 2022, 10:04:30 AM
The Parc des Princes is fantastic.  As is the Millenium in Cardiff.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: hipkiss92 on April 22, 2022, 08:37:18 AM
Safe standing won't make any difference to capacity of whichever part of a stand it is introduced because the seat, even though it is fixed in the 'up' position to allow you to stand is still sold as a seat.

According to Purslow technology and new regulations means it's something like 1.8 standing capacity for every old seat.

That's interesting, and quite a capacity increase. That's a lot of extra people, and weight, for the stand to cope with.

I was at a lecture once where it was mentioned that the factor of safety in structural building design accounts for something like 1000x the number of people that floor space would allow for, so you would suffocate long before the building collapses. I expect capacity would be limited by things like emergency exits rather than any structural requirements.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: exigo on April 22, 2022, 09:36:53 PM
Once they've done the North stand, would think it would be *relatively* straightforward to 'shift' the Holte Suite out towards the car park, open up the lower concourse behind L4 and L5 and then have enough space to get a safety certificate for safe standing in the existing lower Holte.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 23, 2022, 01:10:01 AM
Apropos of eff-all, we need a new badge. Look how insipid ours looks compared to every single other club's on this backdrop. It's terrible.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FatSam on April 23, 2022, 02:33:02 AM
Apropos of eff-all, we need a new badge. Look how insipid ours looks compared to every single other club's on this backdrop. It's terrible.


Agreed
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on April 23, 2022, 03:02:18 AM
Apropos of eff-all, we need a new badge. Look how insipid ours looks compared to every single other club's on this backdrop. It's terrible.



It's something that was evident from the start. There is no contrast in there, it's just light colour on top of a huge block of light colour. I never liked the Lerner badge. It looks like something made of Lego.

Whatever else happens this summer, I'd like to see a new badge, preferably circular. We have the richest and most beautiful colours in world football, we shouldn't have to make do with a pale monstrosity.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on April 23, 2022, 11:11:37 AM
The badge design is rubbish
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on April 23, 2022, 12:16:20 PM
Apropos of eff-all, we need a new badge. Look how insipid ours looks compared to every single other club's on this backdrop. It's terrible.



It's something that was evident from the start. There is no contrast in there, it's just light colour on top of a huge block of light colour. I never liked the Lerner badge. It looks like something made of Lego.

Whatever else happens this summer, I'd like to see a new badge, preferably circular. We have the richest and most beautiful colours in world football, we shouldn't have to make do with a pale monstrosity.

Yep, it's the contrast between the blue and yellow that's the big problem. Even a claret outline to the lion with no other changes would be an instant improvement. The other big change I'd make is to make the star more prominent rather than it looking like something for the 'cat' to play with. Make it a clear line under the club name to show we have plans for there to be more of them in the future.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on April 23, 2022, 01:20:40 PM
Has there been any discussions with  the club on changing the badge ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on April 23, 2022, 03:42:26 PM
It's down on the to-do list between getting a marvellous upgrade on Nakamba and getting the new North Stand in ship-shape.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TonyD on April 23, 2022, 06:28:17 PM
These guys must be quite concerned.

Do they back SG with big money in the summer based purely on blind faith.

Or do they show him and Purslow the door.

I think it will be the latter after the Man City game. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Goldenballs on April 23, 2022, 06:32:55 PM
I can't see them getting rid, I'd be shocked, they gave Smith bags of time. A little bit too much in my opinion.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 23, 2022, 06:35:05 PM
There is absolutely no chance of them getting rid at the end of the season, none whatsoever.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TonyD on April 23, 2022, 06:38:03 PM
Even if the only point(s) we pick up is against Norwich?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 23, 2022, 06:38:40 PM
I wouldn’t say zero chance he’ll be fired. I’d put it much, much lower than that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 23, 2022, 06:40:12 PM
There is absolutely no chance of them getting rid at the end of the season, none whatsoever.

Agreed, there's more chance of me getting married to Zendaya after the end of the season.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: frank black on April 23, 2022, 06:44:17 PM
I was actually quite pleased with Gerrard today. We went to Leicester and executed a decent game plan, especially out of possession. More composure up front and we’d have won. He’s not going anywhere
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 23, 2022, 06:46:04 PM
There is absolutely no chance of them getting rid at the end of the season, none whatsoever.

Agreed, there's more chance of me getting married to Zendaya after the end of the season.

I think there's more chance of Paul Lambert succeeding Putin.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: gpbarr on April 23, 2022, 06:48:38 PM
There is absolutely no chance of them getting rid at the end of the season, none whatsoever.

There is every chance. Edens in particular is ruthless and he will be asking questions, if that you can be sure. If Gerrard doesn’t show some life in these last 6 games, I’d bet he’ll pull the trigger on SG and CP
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on April 23, 2022, 07:25:24 PM
There is absolutely no chance of them getting rid at the end of the season, none whatsoever.

There is every chance. Edens in particular is ruthless and he will be asking questions, if that you can be sure. If Gerrard doesn’t show some life in these last 6 games, I’d bet he’ll pull the trigger on SG and CP

No, there's not. You've turned into a anti-Gerrard zealot over 4 games.

You said it would be ludicrous to get rid at the end of February, we then won 3 games on the bounce. On the basis of the following 4, you've turned. You should be overjoyed tonight, given you thought we'd be shovelled.

As Paulie says, you're more likely to see Lambert describing Russian performance on Ukraine as excellent, than Gerrard be sacked.

He's our manager, get over it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 23, 2022, 08:42:28 PM
There is absolutely no chance of them getting rid at the end of the season, none whatsoever.

There is every chance. Edens in particular is ruthless and he will be asking questions, if that you can be sure. If Gerrard doesn’t show some life in these last 6 games, I’d bet he’ll pull the trigger on SG and CP



He's our manager, get over it.

I think most of us accept that he's our manager. He doesn't appear to be very good at it though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on April 23, 2022, 08:46:54 PM
A judgement reached with breakneck speed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 23, 2022, 08:54:03 PM
A judgement reached with breakneck speed.

Back when I used to work for other people (shudder), when I started a new job I had to prove that I could hit the targets I'd been set before I passed my probationary period (3-6 months). If I didn't I was unceremoniously fucked out of the building. Gerrard has been here for six months - what has he done to prove that he can hit his targets?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on April 23, 2022, 08:57:37 PM
Yes, the football manager game, notoriously easy to judge after a few weeks or months. A false equivalence.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 23, 2022, 08:58:37 PM
Yes, the football manager game, notoriously easy to judge after a few weeks or months. A false equivalence.

How long did Sherwood or Garde last?

Edit: or Di Matteo?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Goldenballs on April 23, 2022, 09:02:50 PM
Yes, the football manager game, notoriously easy to judge after a few weeks or months. A false equivalence.

How long did Sherwood or Garde last?

Edit: or Di Matteo?

And were there many people demanding they be given more time? I can't recall there being any dismay at them being fucked off.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on April 23, 2022, 09:03:58 PM
For the record, I don't think NSWE will get rid of Gerrard this summer. That said, given the situation last summer, (losing ratboy) I'd have thought they'd have given Dean Smith more time.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on April 23, 2022, 09:04:43 PM
Sherwood lasted a while. 16 minutes into the game at Southampton, with Mane having scored his hatrick, I think perhaps his mask slipped and crashed.

Di Mateo was too aloof and the club still far too much of a mess and everybody far too impatient to get back. Was it the right decision? Ultimately his successor failed too, but he also sorted out the attitudes. Would RDM have done that?

Garde was the worst manager we've ever had because while the club may have given in, so did he. That losers mentality is corrosive and I detest it in people.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Goldenballs on April 23, 2022, 09:12:51 PM
How many chances are we going to get at spending big and aiming for Europa/UCL?

MON had the last one where there was a genuine chance for UCL, and blew it. I'm not happy giving the next attempt to a novice who hasn't really shown me anything to say he's up to it. If it goes tits up, who knows if we'll have another big run at it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Beard82 on April 23, 2022, 09:16:01 PM
How many chances are we going to get at spending big and aiming for Europa/UCL?

MON had the last one where there was a genuine chance for UCL, and blew it. I'm not happy giving the next attempt to a novice who hasn't really shown me anything to say he's up to it. If it goes tits up, who knows if we'll have another big run at it.
I think this is a valid point - and why people are nervous

Its less about SG, then more about this is a once in a generation opportunity and we dont want it to be blown

I was lucky - I started following the Villa in 91, but for my son and daughter, it would be amazing to see the team get to the hights we got to BFR, Sir Brian or even under MON
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 23, 2022, 09:16:02 PM
Sherwood lasted a while. 16 minutes into the game at Southampton, with Mane having scored his hatrick, I think perhaps his mask slipped and crashed.

Di Mateo was too aloof and the club still far too much of a mess and everybody far too impatient to get back. Was it the right decision? Ultimately his successor failed too, but he also sorted out the attitudes. Would RDM have done that?

Garde was the worst manager we've ever had because while the club may have given in, so did he. That losers mentality is corrosive and I detest it in people.

In summary: they were all fucked out of the place when it was obvious that they didn't have a clue how to get a tune out of the players, rather than rewarded for their failure by being given £100m+ to spunk on John Barnes and Bruce Grobbelaar. LLLLD.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on April 23, 2022, 09:23:00 PM
Maybe. What's this got to do with Gerrard?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 23, 2022, 09:23:53 PM
Maybe. What's this got to do with Gerrard?

Have a guess.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on April 23, 2022, 09:26:13 PM
I'm not expending my imagination on filling the chaos of your theory.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 23, 2022, 09:30:22 PM
I'm not expending my imagination on filling the chaos of your theory.

Fair enough. We're dealing with a finite resource, clearly!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on April 23, 2022, 09:32:48 PM
I'm not expending my imagination on filling the chaos of your theory.

Fair enough. We're dealing with a finite resource, clearly!

Agreed, there isn't much fuel in that theory of yours.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: markeeeebeeee2005 on April 23, 2022, 10:04:51 PM
I feel like it’ll be a better use of money to move him on than to hand him the credit card. He hasn’t improved the players he has taken on and that is really frustrating as there are some players who have shown they have a lot more than they’re currently showing. Could be wrong but there isn’t anything other than faith at the moment.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on April 23, 2022, 10:05:49 PM
Who hasn't kicked on that people thought would?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: markeeeebeeee2005 on April 23, 2022, 10:13:30 PM
Who hasn't kicked on that people thought would?

Here’s a better question. Who has kicked on?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on April 23, 2022, 10:24:38 PM
Who hasn't kicked on that people thought would?

Here’s a better question. Who has kicked on?
Cash, Marv, Ramsey, Iroegbunam, arguably Chambers.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: markeeeebeeee2005 on April 23, 2022, 10:38:09 PM
Who hasn't kicked on that people thought would?

Here’s a better question. Who has kicked on?
Cash, Marv, Ramsey, Iroegbunam, arguably Chambers.

Cash - agree
Marv -  he played well when Gerrard first came in and then got injured, came on on 94 mins today jury’s out
Ramsey - agree, although hampered by an appalling midfield which has dragged him down with it
Tim I - 2 appearances from the bench, today coming on on 76 mins, would like to see him have more chances with Marv out and how poor Luiz has been
Chambers - played well then immediately dropped, shame really

I’ll be honest I nodded off during the first half and woke up in injury time in the second so missed the cameos from Tim and Marv but understand Tim looked good. Shame he has had so few minutes.

It’s not much to shout about  Half of the six you mention have hardly played.. And then we get in to what’s happened to the rest of the team?

Whether it’s your five or my three (if I’m being generous) who’ve kicked on that’s not a good result out of a squad of 20 something.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on April 23, 2022, 10:58:37 PM
I'd also say that Martinez, watkins, mings, konsa, luiz and mcginn have all carried on the same form as before he arrived and I'd add Buendia as another who has improved.

I can't think of many players who've gone backwards since Gerrard arrived though, maybe Ings.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 23, 2022, 11:01:48 PM
I'd also say that Martinez, watkins, mings, konsa, luiz and mcginn have all carried on the same form as before he arrived and I'd add Buendia as another who has improved.

I can't think of many players who've gone backwards since Gerrard arrived though, maybe Ings.


Martinez, Watkins, Konsa, Luiz and Mcginn have been shite and getting shiter for months.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on April 23, 2022, 11:09:01 PM
I'd also say that Martinez, watkins, mings, konsa, luiz and mcginn have all carried on the same form as before he arrived and I'd add Buendia as another who has improved.

I can't think of many players who've gone backwards since Gerrard arrived though, maybe Ings.


Martinez, Watkins, Konsa, Luiz and Mcginn have been shite and getting shiter for months.

I don't think any of them are worse than they were when Gerrard arrived (and I don't think Martinez has been shite), I just think some fans have forgotten just how shit we were in the autumn.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on April 23, 2022, 11:12:30 PM
I think with Ollie, minus Grealish, this dog chasing cars, is probably all we're going to get.

McGinn has always given the ball away in bad areas. Whether that was Arsenal away when we were punished or today when we weren't. He's just contributed little and less since November.

Luiz is play, bar a few months at the start of last season, like he always has done. He's never a defensive midfielder in a month of Sundays.

All 3 shouldn't be starting every game when fit for us next season.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 23, 2022, 11:23:51 PM
Who hasn't kicked on that people thought would?

Here’s a better question. Who has kicked on?
Cash, Marv, Ramsey, Iroegbunam, arguably Chambers.

I think Cash has largely been the same as last season, consistant with occasional moments of rashness.

Nakamba for about 3 games so a small sample really.

Ramsey, yeah fair enough although he should've had a breather at some point in last minute.

Tim's made two sub cameos so while promising far too soon to be making judgements like that.

Chambers good for sure but Konsa is still first choice as RCB when fit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on April 24, 2022, 07:47:58 AM
I'd also say that Martinez, watkins, mings, konsa, luiz and mcginn have all carried on the same form as before he arrived and I'd add Buendia as another who has improved.

I can't think of many players who've gone backwards since Gerrard arrived though, maybe Ings.


Martinez, Watkins, Konsa, Luiz and Mcginn have been shite and getting shiter for months.

I don't think any of them are worse than they were when Gerrard arrived (and I don't think Martinez has been shite), I just think some fans have forgotten just how shit we were in the autumn.

I don't think they have, I just think some see Smith's broader tenure as the benchmark, not just the end of it.

It was clear Smith struggled losing Grealish and trying to shoehorn Ings and Ollie in to the same team and by the end he'd ran out of ideas.  But last season he took us to 55 points.  Gerrard's picked up 27 points from 21 games -  a runrate which would give us 48 points over a season.  It's not surprising people are questioning whether that's the progress our incredibly ambitious owners expect.

When you then throw in the fact that almost to a man, Smith spent three years bringing players in relatively cheaply and then developing them, and aside of Ramsey there's very little evidence of Gerrard doing similar I can appreciate why the thought of chucking him another £100m this summer might seem risky.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: markeeeebeeee2005 on April 24, 2022, 08:22:54 AM
That’s exactly where I am Adam. Using five games that got the last manager the sack as the benchmark for success is a recipe for failure.

The owners will likely have loftier ambitions, otherwise what’s the point?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on April 24, 2022, 09:34:31 AM
I'd also say that Martinez, watkins, mings, konsa, luiz and mcginn have all carried on the same form as before he arrived and I'd add Buendia as another who has improved.

I can't think of many players who've gone backwards since Gerrard arrived though, maybe Ings.


Martinez, Watkins, Konsa, Luiz and Mcginn have been shite and getting shiter for months.

I don't think any of them are worse than they were when Gerrard arrived (and I don't think Martinez has been shite), I just think some fans have forgotten just how shit we were in the autumn.

I don't think they have, I just think some see Smith's broader tenure as the benchmark, not just the end of it.

It was clear Smith struggled losing Grealish and trying to shoehorn Ings and Ollie in to the same team and by the end he'd ran out of ideas.  But last season he took us to 55 points.  Gerrard's picked up 27 points from 21 games -  a runrate which would give us 48 points over a season.  It's not surprising people are questioning whether that's the progress our incredibly ambitious owners expect.

When you then throw in the fact that almost to a man, Smith spent three years bringing players in relatively cheaply and then developing them, and aside of Ramsey there's very little evidence of Gerrard doing similar I can appreciate why the thought of chucking him another £100m this summer might seem risky.

My point wasn't about Smith, it was about the players. They were playing as badly or worse than they are now when Gerrard arrived. We had a snall bounce and then a few games in Feb where it looked like we'd got there but in general it's been a full season of talented and experienced players making pub league standard errors and costing us points.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Goldenballs on April 24, 2022, 10:54:40 AM
He should be getting much more out of what we've already got here before trying to convince everyone that the players aren't up to it and we need a new team.

For him not to be able to get an open play goal in 4 games from circa £150m worth of attacking talent is very poor. Apart from the first half against Spurs, which was very good, we don't look to have much of a plan or style. If we have an expensive squad that doesn't suit his style, whatever that may be, then why employ him. If the players don't suit his style, then why not try something else that may suit what's already here before slumping in your seat with your hands in your pockets throwing them under the bus.

The team is full of international players, Martinez equalled our clean sheet record last season, I think Konsa was the defender dribbled past the fewest times last season, and that was still without the fabled DM in front of him, and we were all disappointed he wasn't involved with England. But now people are convincing themselves that these players aren't good enough. Maybe they all aren't good enough for Europe, but overall is our squad massively weaker than West Ham, Leicester or Wolves? Or do they just have better managers getting more out of the players that are there.

Smith had a plan that revolved around giving the ball to a world class player and giving him free reign to roam and create as he saw fit. When he was sold, he couldn't adjust and was rightly sacked. Gerrard doesn't have the excuse of having a key part of plan taken away, but has the excuse of not yet having his own players in.

My prediction is we'll throw money at it, do OK-ish, but underacheive relative to what we've spent, and end up back here in a couple of seasons time couple of hundred million pounds lighter. I find the whole appointment strange, seemingly doing everything we said we weren't going to do anymore. If it was a random Scottish dude we picked up from that joke league with the same record as Gerrard, I think there'd be a lot more people questioning the sense in his appointment, and whether time and a huge bag of cash was sensible. Ultimately, he's here now, he will be given the summer and money, so we'll see what happens.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: gpbarr on April 24, 2022, 03:47:14 PM
If they decide to back him this summer as many on here think is a foregone conclusion, then they must also give him the time to bed in the players he buys ergo, that’s a season.

It’s the firing mid-season that makes so little sense. It reeks of panic and if as we did one changes philosophy then it’s got to be given time.

I’d still like to see us start afresh with a new coach and CEO, but the worst thing we could do is be thinking we give him £100m and then expect results after 10-12 games. It needs to be decisive either way.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on April 24, 2022, 04:49:09 PM
If they decide to back him this summer as many on here think is a foregone conclusion, then they must also give him the time to bed in the players he buys ergo, that’s a season.

It’s the firing mid-season that makes so little sense. It reeks of panic and if as we did one changes philosophy then it’s got to be given time.

I’d still like to see us start afresh with a new coach and CEO, but the worst thing we could do is be thinking we give him £100m and then expect results after 10-12 games. It needs to be decisive either way.

But after 18 or 19 games, we can all scream for him to be sacked.

The most contradictiory of posts.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 24, 2022, 08:44:59 PM
DS largely took us as far as he could.

If he'd stayed I doubt we'd have been much higher in the table although perhaps we'd have a more convincing end of the season than what we're currently witnessing.

With every week however it appears we've dropped the ball a bit gambling on manager with little top level experience who also plays a system that really dosen't suit many in the final third.

If we'd stuck with 4-2-3-1 then I can't believe likes of Bailey or Buendia wouldn't have hit some good form at some point, indeed Buendia was playing well at the turn of the year.

We needed a better version of DS from somewhere to kick us on. Instead feels like we'll spend 100m + shoehorning more players into a rigid and limited style and the next manager will want to go back to what we were doing up to last October so there's the fear we're going to be wasting 18 months on this "project."
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: gpbarr on April 24, 2022, 09:27:13 PM
DS largely took us as far as he could.

If he'd stayed I doubt we'd have been much higher in the table although perhaps we'd have a more convincing end of the season than what we're currently witnessing.

With every week however it appears we've dropped the ball a bit gambling on manager with little top level experience who also plays a system that really dosen't suit many in the final third.

If we'd stuck with 4-2-3-1 then I can't believe likes of Bailey or Buendia wouldn't have hit some good form at some point, indeed Buendia was playing well at the turn of the year.

We needed a better version of DS from somewhere to kick us on. Instead feels like we'll spend 100m + shoehorning more players into a rigid and limited style and the next manager will want to go back to what we were doing up to last October so there's the fear we're going to be wasting 18 months on this "project."

This
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 13, 2022, 05:38:41 PM
Only put this here because it is vaguely to do with ownership, but Facebook reminded me today is ten years since the club did their biggest social media fail.

I recall absolutely crying with laughter at this fuck-up.


(https://i.ibb.co/G3H16cn/411367-10150953747497792-310639364-o.jpg)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on May 13, 2022, 05:56:53 PM
Only put this here because it is vaguely to do with ownership, but Facebook reminded me today is ten years since the club did their biggest social media fail.

I recall absolutely crying with laughter at this fuck-up.


(https://i.ibb.co/G3H16cn/411367-10150953747497792-310639364-o.jpg)

I don’t get it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on May 13, 2022, 06:00:30 PM
I don’t get it.

I don't recall it happening at the time but I'm guessing that Stan might also be taken to mean St. Andrew's. If not, I'm in the same boat as you.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: rooboy316 on May 13, 2022, 06:11:49 PM
I don’t get it.

I don't recall it happening at the time but I'm guessing that Stan might also be taken to mean St. Andrew's. If not, I'm in the same boat as you.
The twitter feed to the right?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on May 13, 2022, 06:13:12 PM
Paulie's all about the tech/layout angle, so I presume it's the anti-McLeish sweary stuff on the Twitter sidebar.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 13, 2022, 06:24:21 PM
They added a twitter panel to the front page and set it to display anything with hashtag #avfc.

Which led to lots of naughty messages on the OS
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdward on May 17, 2022, 03:20:28 PM
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/61194765
Positive feedback regarding the safe standing trials.
Maybe the new North Stand could be a safe standing end. Personally would love to see a Holte End 2 there, but i know the corporate boxes will be a priority.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on May 17, 2022, 06:42:52 PM
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/61194765
Positive feedback regarding the safe standing trials.
Maybe the new North Stand could be a safe standing end. Personally would love to see a Holte End 2 there, but i know the corporate boxes will be a priority.

It won't football is moving away from corporate boxes and towards high end seating and pre and post game facilities, I see no reason why we won't do the same.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on May 17, 2022, 06:54:02 PM
They added a twitter panel to the front page and set it to display anything with hashtag #avfc.

Which led to lots of naughty messages on the OS

Weirdly I was was just thinking about that the other day. I do remember the pair of us laughing our bollocks off on here about it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 17, 2022, 07:28:09 PM
They added a twitter panel to the front page and set it to display anything with hashtag #avfc.

Which led to lots of naughty messages on the OS

Weirdly I was was just thinking about that the other day. I do remember the pair of us laughing our bollocks off on here about it.

Ha ha yeah, that was my recollection, for some reason nobody other than you and I seemed so taken by it, but it was very, very funny indeed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on May 26, 2022, 05:23:46 PM
Thanks again guys. Honestly can't fault them  :'(

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 26, 2022, 05:29:41 PM
Bloody love 'em.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan For Life on May 26, 2022, 05:38:55 PM
What fantastic owners we have
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sid1964 on June 27, 2022, 07:34:32 AM
Just heard an interesting fact, since 1992 (the start of the Premier league era) the most profitable club in the history of the premier league is Spurs - £400 million in profit

I would imagine our losses for the seasons we have been in Premier league are huge
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: charlatan on June 28, 2022, 12:12:27 AM
have a look at this sid. shows how top ten total premier league era losses have evolved by club.

https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/8987079/
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sid1964 on June 28, 2022, 06:00:10 AM
We are 3rd highest in losses per season, since the premier league began

I know that Abramovich was paying £900k a week into Chelsea

We have made some terrible business decisions
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 28, 2022, 06:23:00 AM
We are 3rd highest in losses per season, since the premier league began

I know that Abramovich was paying £900k a week into Chelsea

We have made some terrible business decisions
Poor managerial appointments with even worse player recruiting  with minimal resale.
 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on June 28, 2022, 10:50:23 AM
Also our managing to have largely flat commercial revenue at a time we had a quarter of a century unbroken right to print money as member of a league with commercial revenues going through the roof.

That's the bit Lerner never seemed to understand. Ellis probably understood it but was out of his depth.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on June 28, 2022, 10:57:29 AM
Also our managing to have largely flat commercial revenue at a time we had a quarter of a century unbroken right to print money as member of a league with commercial revenues going through the roof.

That's the bit Lerner never seemed to understand. Ellis probably understood it but was out of his depth.

I don’t think Ellis understood it at all. He was happy playing at being tallest dwarf in the Midlands and that was it. Blinded by the size of his ego.

Lerner didn’t get it either, his whole time at Villa was just an exercise in museum curation.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mike on June 28, 2022, 11:01:34 AM
CL and PW sum up why we have spent a fortune and finished below newly promoted Brentford and little old Brighton. I think the current regime is improving things but, in all honesty and Ratboy aside, not by much on the player side of things. We still seem to pay top dollar and sell cheap. The fact we now sell out Villa Park, as opposed to the days when 30,000 was a reasonable crowd, hopefully means we will increase overall revenue but isn't all the shirt and tat sales dwarfed by TV money?

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 28, 2022, 11:06:22 AM
Our summer signings suggest we have not learnt our lessons yet.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on June 28, 2022, 11:10:02 AM
CL and PW sum up why we have spent a fortune and finished below newly promoted Brentford and little old Brighton. I think the current regime is improving things but, in all honesty and Ratboy aside, not by much on the player side of things. We still seem to pay top dollar and sell cheap. The fact we now sell out Villa Park, as opposed to the days when 30,000 was a reasonable crowd, hopefully means we will increase overall revenue but isn't all the shirt and tat sales dwarfed by TV money?

Yes it is but our commercial income is mostly generated from shirt sponsorship, shirt manufacturer and other commercial sponsorship deals. Most of the clubs in the (vomits) top 6 have commercial income quite often in excess of 10 times that of Villa. We the fans in terms of ticket sales and shirt sales probably account for less than 20% of the clubs income.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on June 28, 2022, 11:23:15 AM
Our summer signings suggest we have not learnt our lessons yet.

Eh?

Coutinho is brilliant.
Carlos was a key part of one of the best defences in Europe.
Olsen is Sweden's GK and he's our number 2.
Kamara is a very well respected and up and coming French International?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on June 28, 2022, 11:27:58 AM
I guess hes talking about wages?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 28, 2022, 11:29:47 AM
Our summer signings suggest we have not learnt our lessons yet.

Eh?

Coutinho is brilliant.
Carlos was a key part of one of the best defences in Europe.
Olsen is Sweden's GK and he's our number 2.
Kamara is a very well respected and up and coming French International?
Summer, you know that season between Spring and Autumn.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on June 28, 2022, 11:32:59 AM
The fuck you on about Chicago?  All of those are this summers signings.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dave P on June 28, 2022, 12:28:53 PM
So because we signed them in May, they don't count as summer signings???  Summer started with the longest day last week.  My god you are demanding!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2022, 12:47:14 PM
This is a bit of a weird line you’re going down CL.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: rjp on June 28, 2022, 12:50:29 PM
If you look at the clubs who have hordes of day trippers such as Man U and Liverpool they make much more on a match day.  Each one of those day trippers is making their annual or maybe even lifetime visit to the stadium.  They'll buy all the tat they can afford.  Then 2 weeks later a whole new load of day trippers arrive and repeat the process.  A season ticket holder is probably going to buy once for the season.  Season ticket holders aren't anywhere near as profitable as day trippers but if you become one of those clubs it comes at a cost as those who have visited these stadiums will know.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on June 28, 2022, 01:06:42 PM
If only we had waited until the summer.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on June 28, 2022, 01:10:51 PM
If you look at the clubs who have hordes of day trippers such as Man U and Liverpool they make much more on a match day.  Each one of those day trippers is making their annual or maybe even lifetime visit to the stadium.  They'll buy all the tat they can afford.  Then 2 weeks later a whole new load of day trippers arrive and repeat the process.  A season ticket holder is probably going to buy once for the season.  Season ticket holders aren't anywhere near as profitable as day trippers but if you become one of those clubs it comes at a cost as those who have visited these stadiums will know.

True enough
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 28, 2022, 02:39:14 PM
The fuck you on about Chicago?  All of those are this summers signings.
I was referring to last summer and May is not Summer.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 28, 2022, 02:41:05 PM
Bloody Hell, even by your standards....that's a tedious argument.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on June 28, 2022, 02:43:13 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 28, 2022, 02:44:12 PM
Bloody Hell, even by your standards....that's a tedious argument.
Well your from Scotland which according to Billy Connolly has 2 seasons June and Winter.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on June 28, 2022, 02:47:14 PM
The fuck you on about Chicago?  All of those are this summers signings.
I was referring to last summer and May is not Summer.

Apologies in advance for the insult but that's the kind of nonsense Wilma would come out with.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on June 28, 2022, 03:06:12 PM
The fuck you on about Chicago?  All of those are this summers signings.
I was referring to last summer and May is not Summer.
Christ, the period between seasons is commonly (and formally by the Premier League) known as the summer transfer window.  Quite why you would be talking about players signed last summer when we're balls deep into this window I really don't know.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 28, 2022, 03:44:10 PM
The fuck you on about Chicago?  All of those are this summers signings.
I was referring to last summer and May is not Summer.

Apologies in advance for the insult but that's the kind of nonsense Wilma would come out with.

Sorry I have gone too far this time.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 28, 2022, 03:51:07 PM
Bloody Hell, even by your standards....that's a tedious argument.
Well your from Scotland which according to Billy Connolly has 2 seasons June and Winter.

I'm not really, I just like fried food.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on June 28, 2022, 07:03:04 PM
Bloody Hell, even by your standards....that's a tedious argument.
Well your from Scotland which according to Billy Connolly has 2 seasons June and Winter.

He's not a real Scot like me. Hoots Mon and all that
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 28, 2022, 07:09:41 PM
Also our managing to have largely flat commercial revenue at a time we had a quarter of a century unbroken right to print money as member of a league with commercial revenues going through the roof.

That's the bit Lerner never seemed to understand. Ellis probably understood it but was out of his depth.

I would say it was the other way round. Lerner started off with bright ideas then gave up while Ellis was just stuck in the days when we were a local club for local people. I could write a book about the opportunities we missed from 1990-2006. Actually, I have several times over.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on June 28, 2022, 07:30:28 PM
We are 3rd highest in losses per season, since the premier league began

I know that Abramovich was paying £900k a week into Chelsea

We have made some terrible business decisions

Even though we spent 3 seasons outside the top flight we've still got the 3rd highest loss in total. The vast majority of it Lerner's cash.

It really does prove that a fool and his money are easily parted!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mike on June 28, 2022, 09:50:53 PM
We are 3rd highest in losses per season, since the premier league began

I know that Abramovich was paying £900k a week into Chelsea

We have made some terrible business decisions

Even though we spent 3 seasons outside the top flight we've still got the 3rd highest loss in total. The vast majority of it Lerner's cash.

It really does prove that a fool and his money are easily parted!

Especially if Martin O'Neil is around to give a hand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Pat McMahon on June 28, 2022, 10:41:40 PM
We are 3rd highest in losses per season, since the premier league began

I know that Abramovich was paying £900k a week into Chelsea

We have made some terrible business decisions

Even though we spent 3 seasons outside the top flight we've still got the 3rd highest loss in total. The vast majority of it Lerner's cash.

It really does prove that a fool and his money are easily parted!

Especially if Martin O'Neil is around to give a hand.

Careful, Darren Woolley was schmoozing  MON yesterday. Or ambushing him, I’m not sure which.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 28, 2022, 11:04:53 PM
I give thanks every single day that Nas and Wes bought us.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on June 28, 2022, 11:52:19 PM
I give thanks every single day that Nas and Wes bought us.

I sing it to the 'Roses' jingle.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SaddVillan on July 03, 2022, 09:44:29 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2022/jul/02/cashing-in-on-phillips-and-raphinha-gives-a-club-like-leeds-no-guarantees?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

An interesting analysis of how the loss of Phillips and Rapinha will affect Leeds and how clubs of similar stature are on an almost endless treadmill of searching for talent that can be bought, improved and, almost inevitably sold to the Greedy 6. Echoes of Villa and Grealish. Perhaps we were naive in thinking he'd stay and so hadn't planned properly for when he did leave?

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on July 03, 2022, 11:22:29 AM
I give thanks every single day that Nas and Wes bought us.
You and me both mate.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on July 03, 2022, 12:27:50 PM
The fuck you on about Chicago?  All of those are this summers signings.
I was referring to last summer and May is not Summer.
Christ, the period between seasons is commonly (and formally by the Premier League) known as the summer transfer window.  Quite why you would be talking about players signed last summer when we're balls deep into this window I really don't know.
Or, the close season, in old money.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on July 03, 2022, 03:50:15 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2022/jul/02/cashing-in-on-phillips-and-raphinha-gives-a-club-like-leeds-no-guarantees?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

An interesting analysis of how the loss of Phillips and Rapinha will affect Leeds and how clubs of similar stature are on an almost endless treadmill of searching for talent that can be bought, improved and, almost inevitably sold to the Greedy 6. Echoes of Villa and Grealish. Perhaps we were naive in thinking he'd stay and so hadn't planned properly for when he did leave?

Not working.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SaddVillan on July 04, 2022, 09:06:24 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2022/jul/02/cashing-in-on-phillips-and-raphinha-gives-a-club-like-leeds-no-guarantees
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dogtanian on July 19, 2022, 09:30:08 AM
Very good article today in The Athletic which sums up our position quite nicely.

https://theathletic.com/3419028/2022/07/19/how-aston-villa-hope-to-become-the-best-of-the-rest/ (https://theathletic.com/3419028/2022/07/19/how-aston-villa-hope-to-become-the-best-of-the-rest/)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 19, 2022, 09:32:10 AM
Paywalled...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on July 19, 2022, 09:40:58 AM
Paywalled...
Try this (on a PC or laptop)
Open the page and let it load.
Right click on the page and from the drop down menu click 'inspect'  (at the bottom of the list)
The screen will spit with some text to the right.  At the top righ click the settings cog wheel
This will bring up lots of tick boxes - scroll to the bottom and click the 'disable java script box'
Refresh the page
You can now close the opened menu boxes
Tadaaaa!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on July 19, 2022, 09:41:55 AM
How Aston Villa hope to become the best of the rest

aston-villa
By Gregg Evans
4h ago
When Aston Villa’s European Cup-winning team of 1982 were paraded around Villa Park before the final home game of last season, many were left contemplating how the mighty had fallen.

Spectators packed out the stadium to watch the side labour to a 1-1 draw with almost-relegated Burnley.

A final day defeat at Manchester City confirmed Villa’s finishing position of 14th, behind Brentford, who were playing in the old Third Division when Villa beat Bayern Munich in Rotterdam, and Crystal Palace, who narrowly avoided relegation to the third tier in the 1981-82 season.

The most depressing takeaway from the Burnley draw was how a crowd, so pumped up before kick-off as they welcomed the set of club legends, quickly fell into a state of drift following another underwhelming home performance.

The muted atmosphere inside Villa Park at times last season and the stuttering finish on the pitch were concerns.

Villa won two of their last 11 games and at one stage, relegation fears even started to creep in.

But in the space of just a few months, the outlook has changed dramatically. For some time, officials inside the board meetings at Villa Park have been discussing ways to make the club the “best of the rest” — the team most capable of challenging the Big Six in the Premier League.

Early transfer business has set the tone for an exciting summer and for the first time under Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens’ ownership (NSWE), there is no major roadblock to navigate during pre-season.

Manager Steven Gerrard has already told some key players that finishing in the top seven is the aim.

He was disappointed with the way the season fizzled out in May, admitting there was little to celebrate when the campaign ended.

Gerrard has spoken about “ambitious but realistic” targets for this season. Those above him hope this is the year Villa make serious progress and supporters’ expectations are growing.

Villa were able to get the bulk of their transfer business done before the window even opened as Philippe Coutinho, Robin Olsen, Boubacar Kamara and Diego Carlos all joined early on.

Negotiating the transfer fee for Coutinho down from an original £33 million agreed price to just £17 million was impressive.

aston-villa
Coutinho taking a penalty for Villa against Leeds during their pre-season match in Australia (Photo: Bradley Kanaris/Getty Images)
Signing Kamara on a free transfer and bringing in a centre-back in Diego Carlos, who was so popular at his former club Sevilla that he held an emotional press conference to officially say goodbye, also shows a further sign of the club’s continued growth.

Villa even managed to convince Neil Critchley to leave his post as manager with Blackpool in the Championship to join as the new assistant manager.

There is still room for improvement and Villa are looking at signing another No 8 after further strengthening the full-back positions this week with the loan signing of left-back Ludwig Augustinsson from Sevilla.

Villa still need to recoup funds for some of the squad players who are unlikely to feature when the season gets underway next month.

Compare the to-do list to year one, though, when NSWE saved the club from administration and were able to release the soft transfer embargo placed on the then-Championship side before winning promotion.

Or year two, when Villa had to completely rebuild a threadbare and ageing squad to become competitive in the Premier League and then stayed up by a point on the final day of the season.

Even last summer, there was the setback of losing star man Jack Grealish and then the change of managers when Dean Smith was sacked and replaced with Gerrard.

Now the pathway is free of any large obstacles and the club continue to make bold and strategic moves not only in the transfer market but also by planning to extend the capacity at Villa Park, build a new inner-city academy and revolutionise youth development.

Directors at rival clubs are wary of the threat that Villa pose — even if their modest finish last season suggested the club actually went slightly backwards following an 11th-place finish in 2020-21.

Villa have spent big in recent years and have not got every move right. Yet the continued investment has generated a squad now worth somewhere in the region of £550 million — and there’s a wage system in place that is stretched every season but not to a potential breaking point.

Structurally, Villa are set up well. Their high-earning, top-performing international players are on long contracts and have increased in value. The average age of the squad is among the lowest in the league and a talented youngster is showing serious signs of progression in almost every position.

The foundations are there now and with a couple more additions, Villa look prepared for a crack at seventh place. It will be doing the basics better on the pitch that will now set them apart. West Ham United, Newcastle United, Leicester City, Crystal Palace and Wolverhampton Wanderers will all have something to say about Villa’s push for a European place.

Villa must improve defensively. Diego Carlos’ addition will keep others on their toes and Kamara should act as a much-needed midfield screen.

It sounds simple, but taking chances and cutting out individual errors is key.

The long list of games where Villa either misfired in front of goal or handed the points to their opponents too easily led to Gerrard admitting the only way forward would be to sign new players who were better than the under-performers of last season.

Steven Gerrard Villa
Gerrard was disappointed with Villa’s end to the season (Photo: Neville Williams/Aston Villa FC via Getty Images)
A No 8 to strengthen the midfielder department will help and add further competition for places. Gerrard wants every player in his starting XI to feel pushed to perform.

The forward options already look strong, with Ollie Watkins, Danny Ings, Emiliano Buendia and Coutinho vying for a starting position. Leon Bailey is recognised as Villa’s wildcard. Getting a tune out of him this campaign could make a huge difference after a tough first season in England.

Cameron Archer may also join up as a third striker. He is out in Australia with the squad this week for the pre-season tour and a decision over whether he goes on loan will be made soon.

There have been some big moments under NSWE — the decision to keep Jack Grealish for longer than expected when Tottenham Hotspur came calling, for example. Or how Villa persuaded Tammy Abraham to see out the Championship season on loan when Wolverhampton Wanderers were offering a Premier League move in January 2019. Sticking by Dean Smith during the lockdown months of 2020 when Villa appeared to be heading out of the Premier League was also the right call.

Serious work behind the scenes has been ongoing throughout to build Villa into a proper force again — from the new state-of-the-art performance centre at Bodymoor Heath to the academy rebuild and putting the North Stand extension plans into place.

Villa have announced that season ticket sales have sold out for the fourth year in a row. There is a long waiting list and this summer’s tour will help the club grow into new markets.

It’s an exciting time to be a Villa supporter.

Last season’s awkward finish is forgotten and before three friendly games next week, excitement is starting to build.

This feels like the season where we find out what this club is really made of.

(Top photo: Albert Perez/Getty Images)

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on July 19, 2022, 09:59:25 AM
I mean, it's a bit of a filler piece on a slow news week for them. It doesn't really give any new information, but does reinforce the good they have done since they took over.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 19, 2022, 10:01:47 AM
That's a good article by Evans, his writing has improved no end since he moved to The Athletic, presumably because he no longer has to come up with laughable clickbait nonsense.  The bit that concerns me in that article is the "taking chances and cutting out individual errors is key" part. Hopefully Carlos will see the latter part solved, but I still think we'll be a bit hamstrung by Watkins and his shonky first touch.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 19, 2022, 10:05:08 AM
It is a good read and I agree about Gregggg Evans.

However, it is typical start of the season stuff and I am pretty sure there would have been another very similar article at the start of last season, and look how that panned out!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on July 19, 2022, 10:07:32 AM
Gregg Evans is pretty good at puff pieces, interviews with old players, stories about the Ramsey brothers etc.

Where I've always felt he lacks (and still does) is astute tactical analysis.  Compared to writers for other clubs he rarely offers any detailed insight into the way we play, how tactics are evolving, the strengths of individual players etc.  If you listen to podcasts / read other athletic articles the other reporters seem more astute at this.

It's the same for the Birmingham mail reporters.  When they have guests on their podcasts from other clubs it makes you realise how clueless the Villa reporters really are.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on July 19, 2022, 10:10:08 AM
Yeah, Gregg has probably said the same thing in many different ways just so an article on the Villa can be posted every few days on The Athletic. Better to have it, than not, though.
And the comment about senior players being told that top seven is the target is an interesting snippet if true.

He didn't mention our Wembley League Cup final appearance as one of the achievements of the NSWE reign. We lost but runner-up medals is the only silverware a lot of those players will ever manage in their careers. Also made me wonder, whether our two owners were at Wembley that day? I can't remember.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 19, 2022, 10:11:18 AM
Birmingham Mail sports content is aimed at the sort of people who get conned by the ridiculously misleading clickbait headlines, and can then still be arsed to wade through the horrific amounts of advertising in order to get to the 'content' which is all written in tabloid style single line paragraphs and contains no actual information.

More often than not, the content is actually them copying and pasting stuff people said on Twitter (not with embedded links, obvs, as that might take people away from the steaming bowl of shit which is their site).

A once great local newspaper turned into one of the worst things on the internet. I appreciate it's not 1985 any more and they're not selling half a million copies a day but it's really quite depressing for those of us who grew up with it to see it reduced to the most horrible, desperate incarnation of an online newspaper
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on July 19, 2022, 10:13:23 AM
Birmingham Mail sports content is aimed at the sort of people who get conned by the ridiculously misleading clickbait headlines, and can then still be arsed to wade through the horrific amounts of advertising in order to get to the 'content' which is all written in tabloid style single line paragraphs and contains no actual information.

More often than not, the content is actually them copying and pasting stuff people said on Twitter (not with embedded links, obvs, as that might take people away from the steaming bowl of shit which is their site).
This is true, but the equivalent reporters for Everton & Liverpool for example are excellent.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on July 19, 2022, 10:13:28 AM
How Aston Villa hope to become the best of the rest

aston-villa
By Gregg Evans
4h ago
When Aston Villa’s European Cup-winning team of 1982 were paraded around Villa Park before the final home game of last season, many were left contemplating how the mighty had fallen.

Spectators packed out the stadium to watch the side labour to a 1-1 draw with almost-relegated Burnley.

A final day defeat at Manchester City confirmed Villa’s finishing position of 14th, behind Brentford, who were playing in the old Third Division when Villa beat Bayern Munich in Rotterdam, and Crystal Palace, who narrowly avoided relegation to the third tier in the 1981-82 season.

The most depressing takeaway from the Burnley draw was how a crowd, so pumped up before kick-off as they welcomed the set of club legends, quickly fell into a state of drift following another underwhelming home performance.

The muted atmosphere inside Villa Park at times last season and the stuttering finish on the pitch were concerns.

Villa won two of their last 11 games and at one stage, relegation fears even started to creep in.

But in the space of just a few months, the outlook has changed dramatically. For some time, officials inside the board meetings at Villa Park have been discussing ways to make the club the “best of the rest” — the team most capable of challenging the Big Six in the Premier League.

Early transfer business has set the tone for an exciting summer and for the first time under Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens’ ownership (NSWE), there is no major roadblock to navigate during pre-season.

Manager Steven Gerrard has already told some key players that finishing in the top seven is the aim.

He was disappointed with the way the season fizzled out in May, admitting there was little to celebrate when the campaign ended.

Gerrard has spoken about “ambitious but realistic” targets for this season. Those above him hope this is the year Villa make serious progress and supporters’ expectations are growing.

Villa were able to get the bulk of their transfer business done before the window even opened as Philippe Coutinho, Robin Olsen, Boubacar Kamara and Diego Carlos all joined early on.

Negotiating the transfer fee for Coutinho down from an original £33 million agreed price to just £17 million was impressive.

aston-villa
Coutinho taking a penalty for Villa against Leeds during their pre-season match in Australia (Photo: Bradley Kanaris/Getty Images)
Signing Kamara on a free transfer and bringing in a centre-back in Diego Carlos, who was so popular at his former club Sevilla that he held an emotional press conference to officially say goodbye, also shows a further sign of the club’s continued growth.

Villa even managed to convince Neil Critchley to leave his post as manager with Blackpool in the Championship to join as the new assistant manager.

There is still room for improvement and Villa are looking at signing another No 8 after further strengthening the full-back positions this week with the loan signing of left-back Ludwig Augustinsson from Sevilla.

Villa still need to recoup funds for some of the squad players who are unlikely to feature when the season gets underway next month.

Compare the to-do list to year one, though, when NSWE saved the club from administration and were able to release the soft transfer embargo placed on the then-Championship side before winning promotion.

Or year two, when Villa had to completely rebuild a threadbare and ageing squad to become competitive in the Premier League and then stayed up by a point on the final day of the season.

Even last summer, there was the setback of losing star man Jack Grealish and then the change of managers when Dean Smith was sacked and replaced with Gerrard.

Now the pathway is free of any large obstacles and the club continue to make bold and strategic moves not only in the transfer market but also by planning to extend the capacity at Villa Park, build a new inner-city academy and revolutionise youth development.

Directors at rival clubs are wary of the threat that Villa pose — even if their modest finish last season suggested the club actually went slightly backwards following an 11th-place finish in 2020-21.

Villa have spent big in recent years and have not got every move right. Yet the continued investment has generated a squad now worth somewhere in the region of £550 million — and there’s a wage system in place that is stretched every season but not to a potential breaking point.

Structurally, Villa are set up well. Their high-earning, top-performing international players are on long contracts and have increased in value. The average age of the squad is among the lowest in the league and a talented youngster is showing serious signs of progression in almost every position.

The foundations are there now and with a couple more additions, Villa look prepared for a crack at seventh place. It will be doing the basics better on the pitch that will now set them apart. West Ham United, Newcastle United, Leicester City, Crystal Palace and Wolverhampton Wanderers will all have something to say about Villa’s push for a European place.

Villa must improve defensively. Diego Carlos’ addition will keep others on their toes and Kamara should act as a much-needed midfield screen.

It sounds simple, but taking chances and cutting out individual errors is key.

The long list of games where Villa either misfired in front of goal or handed the points to their opponents too easily led to Gerrard admitting the only way forward would be to sign new players who were better than the under-performers of last season.

Steven Gerrard Villa
Gerrard was disappointed with Villa’s end to the season (Photo: Neville Williams/Aston Villa FC via Getty Images)
A No 8 to strengthen the midfielder department will help and add further competition for places. Gerrard wants every player in his starting XI to feel pushed to perform.

The forward options already look strong, with Ollie Watkins, Danny Ings, Emiliano Buendia and Coutinho vying for a starting position. Leon Bailey is recognised as Villa’s wildcard. Getting a tune out of him this campaign could make a huge difference after a tough first season in England.

Cameron Archer may also join up as a third striker. He is out in Australia with the squad this week for the pre-season tour and a decision over whether he goes on loan will be made soon.

There have been some big moments under NSWE — the decision to keep Jack Grealish for longer than expected when Tottenham Hotspur came calling, for example. Or how Villa persuaded Tammy Abraham to see out the Championship season on loan when Wolverhampton Wanderers were offering a Premier League move in January 2019. Sticking by Dean Smith during the lockdown months of 2020 when Villa appeared to be heading out of the Premier League was also the right call.

Serious work behind the scenes has been ongoing throughout to build Villa into a proper force again — from the new state-of-the-art performance centre at Bodymoor Heath to the academy rebuild and putting the North Stand extension plans into place.

Villa have announced that season ticket sales have sold out for the fourth year in a row. There is a long waiting list and this summer’s tour will help the club grow into new markets.

It’s an exciting time to be a Villa supporter.

Last season’s awkward finish is forgotten and before three friendly games next week, excitement is starting to build.

This feels like the season where we find out what this club is really made of.

(Top photo: Albert Perez/Getty Images)
That's a good article. Thanks for posting. It is a spot on summary of where we are right now and where we want to be in forthcoming years. Also spot on is the comment "it sounds simple but taking chances and cutting out individual errors is key" That's what a lot of us have been saying. Hopefully the signing of Diego Carlos will help with cutting out costly defensive errors. Ollie Watkins is an immensely likeable player but can he start taking the chances that a top striker would and should? His glaring miss against City at 0-2 still grinds my gears although it would have most likely given the title to Liverpool so every cloud and all that. Personally I think a top striker is a must. And definitely don't send Archer out on loan. That kids the future and one of the academy stars I genuinely think can take us up to the next level. UTV
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 19, 2022, 10:16:36 AM
Birmingham Mail sports content is aimed at the sort of people who get conned by the ridiculously misleading clickbait headlines, and can then still be arsed to wade through the horrific amounts of advertising in order to get to the 'content' which is all written in tabloid style single line paragraphs and contains no actual information.

More often than not, the content is actually them copying and pasting stuff people said on Twitter (not with embedded links, obvs, as that might take people away from the steaming bowl of shit which is their site).
This is true, but the equivalent reporters for Everton & Liverpool for example are excellent.

That's because they work for better newspapers.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on July 19, 2022, 10:31:11 AM
I thought they all worked for the same group Dave?  (although I don't know anything about newspaper ownership)

Specifically, I'm talking about Josh Williams (@DistanceCovered) for Liverpool who works for Reach, David Hughes (@DAHughes_) for Everton who used to worked for Reach but now seems to be at the Mirror.  Not only were they good for their own teams but talked about Villa with real knowledge.  But there's also been other guests on the podcast from the likes of Southampton who just seem far more knowledgable than our bumbling muppets.


 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 19, 2022, 10:41:06 AM
I thought they all worked for the same group Dave?  (although I don't know anything about newspaper ownership)

Specifically, I'm talking about Josh Williams (@DistanceCovered) for Liverpool who works for Reach, David Hughes (@DAHughes_) for Everton who I also think worked for Reach but now seems to be at the Mirror.  But there's also been other guests on the podcast from the likes of Southampton who just seem far more knowledgable than our bumbling muppets.
 

Reach owns the Mirror too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 19, 2022, 10:49:54 AM
The Express and Star is a thousand times better than the Mail for quality local football coverage.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: lovejoy on July 19, 2022, 10:57:48 AM
Gerrard was disappointed with the finish last season? So was I FFS.
Realistically who out of Leicester, Wolves and West Ham will we finish above?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: rob_bridge on July 19, 2022, 10:59:17 AM
Very good article today in The Athletic which sums up our position quite nicely.

https://theathletic.com/3419028/2022/07/19/how-aston-villa-hope-to-become-the-best-of-the-rest/ (https://theathletic.com/3419028/2022/07/19/how-aston-villa-hope-to-become-the-best-of-the-rest/)


Does anybody know roughly how much additional ticket revenue will be generated by the Season Ticket sales this season v last?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on July 19, 2022, 10:59:37 AM
Gerrard was disappointed with the finish last season? So was I FFS.
Realistically who out of Leicester, Wolves and West Ham will we finish above?
Wolves and Leicester.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 19, 2022, 11:01:34 AM
I thought they all worked for the same group Dave?  (although I don't know anything about newspaper ownership)

Specifically, I'm talking about Josh Williams (@DistanceCovered) for Liverpool who works for Reach, David Hughes (@DAHughes_) for Everton who used to worked for Reach but now seems to be at the Mirror.  Not only were they good for their own teams but talked about Villa with real knowledge.  But there's also been other guests on the podcast from the likes of Southampton who just seem far more knowledgable than our bumbling muppets.


 

They all have the same owners but the content is massively different. The Liverpool and Manchester titles broadcast their cities to the world; the Mail tells potential visitors they'll be lucky to get home in one piece.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on July 19, 2022, 11:03:28 AM
Paywalled...
Obviously ensure that your subscription for whatever thing you're accessing is up to date, but https://12ft.io is handy if you can't be bothered logging in every time
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Beard82 on July 19, 2022, 11:23:06 AM
7th is the aim, that is a big ask I would say, unless we get a couple more players noticeably better.

The ambition is great though  - and I much rather fail try to get 7th, then fail trying to stay up
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 19, 2022, 11:28:30 AM
Seventh is the new fourth.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan82 on July 19, 2022, 11:37:09 AM
Seventh is the new fourth.

It's twelve years since we managed it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 19, 2022, 11:49:31 AM
Seventh is the new fourth.

It would be a sign of progress, though we should be getting 8th at least I think.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 19, 2022, 12:59:28 PM
Seventh is the new fourth.

It would be a sign of progress, though we should be getting 8th at least I think.

I'm finding it harder to equate great owners and such an apparently highly-regarded manager with seventh or eighth being a success, particularly given our transfer strategy.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on July 19, 2022, 01:12:27 PM
Seventh is the new fourth.

It would be a sign of progress, though we should be getting 8th at least I think.


yep and a couple of cups please
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 19, 2022, 01:20:04 PM
Seventh is the new fourth.

It would be a sign of progress, though we should be getting 8th at least I think.

I'm finding it harder to equate great owners and such an apparently highly-regarded manager with seventh or eighth being a success, particularly given our transfer strategy.


Well I'd argue that Liverpool and Man City are pretty well uncatchable at the moment, and then you'll have Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal probably going for the 3rd to 5th places. However well we've bought, Spurs have Kane and Song who have guaranteed them roughly 30-40 goals a season between them for the last 5 years. If the new players click into place and we get off to a good start, I can't see why we shouldn't be up and around 6th place with the likes of Man U, Leicester and West Ham though. To go further, we need better strikers.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: jwarry on July 19, 2022, 01:39:46 PM
Seventh is the new fourth.

It would be a sign of progress, though we should be getting 8th at least I think.

I'm finding it harder to equate great owners and such an apparently highly-regarded manager with seventh or eighth being a success, particularly given our transfer strategy.


Well I'd argue that Liverpool and Man City are pretty well uncatchable at the moment, and then you'll have Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal probably going for the 3rd to 5th places. However well we've bought, Spurs have Kane and Song who have guaranteed them roughly 30-40 goals a season between them for the last 5 years. If the new players click into place and we get off to a good start, I can't see why we shouldn't be up and around 6th place with the likes of Man U, Leicester and West Ham though. To go further, we need better strikers.

I agree with Dave, I really can’t see our owners accepting anything less than top 4.  I also can’t see Gerrard lasting long if he doesn’t deliver it.  There’s been so much investment in players, coaches, other staff and infrastructure that they clearly feel we should not be fearing the top 4.  Problem is at the moment I haven’t detected a team that feels the same way
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dave P on July 19, 2022, 01:41:24 PM
Gerrard was disappointed with the finish last season? So was I FFS.
Realistically who out of Leicester, Wolves and West Ham will we finish above?
Wolves and Leicester.

And West Ham
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 19, 2022, 01:42:36 PM
In a couple of years fifth probably gets us in the Champions League so that's not beyond the realms of possibility, though the likes of Newcastle and West Ham will be thinking the same.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on July 19, 2022, 01:45:29 PM
I doubt the owners consider our ultimate ceiling to be 7th, but for this season 7th would be a signficant improvement on where we were. Sustainable growth has been the mantra since they joined.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on July 19, 2022, 01:47:46 PM
Seventh is the new fourth.

It would be a sign of progress, though we should be getting 8th at least I think.

I'm finding it harder to equate great owners and such an apparently highly-regarded manager with seventh or eighth being a success, particularly given our transfer strategy.
I think it might be considered a success/progress this coming season, and rightly so if it means bringing European football back to Villa Park.  But I do think that over the medium term, that'll morph very much in to 'Champions League'.  We've maintained a high level of investment for a few seasons on the trot, and look like we'll continue to for at least a few more years (with the development of Villa Park).  I think if we're not on a par with Arsenal/Spurs/Man Utd/.. at the end of that, some serious questions will be asked.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 19, 2022, 02:07:21 PM
Seventh is the new fourth.

It would be a sign of progress, though we should be getting 8th at least I think.

I'm finding it harder to equate great owners and such an apparently highly-regarded manager with seventh or eighth being a success, particularly given our transfer strategy.
I think it might be considered a success/progress this coming season, and rightly so if it means bringing European football back to Villa Park.  But I do think that over the medium term, that'll morph very much in to 'Champions League'.  We've maintained a high level of investment for a few seasons on the trot, and look like we'll continue to for at least a few more years (with the development of Villa Park).  I think if we're not on a par with Arsenal/Spurs/Man Utd/.. at the end of that, some serious questions will be asked.

It's always going to be some time.....
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: frank black on July 19, 2022, 02:13:45 PM
In a couple of years fifth probably gets us in the Champions League so that's not beyond the realms of possibility, though the likes of Newcastle and West Ham will be thinking the same.

Newcastle are a shoe in for the top 4…within 3-4 seasons. Especially if they have lawyers like Man city and the owners throw enough cash at it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 19, 2022, 02:21:26 PM
It is, and given what's being spent, you'd argue it's taking too long. Which is why this season there has to be a big improvement. I also think the squad we're building is becoming more attractive to a top manager as well. If it didn't work with Gerrard, you'd think we'd have far more interest from more established managers to take on the project.

But we need the Champions League income in order to progress, don't we?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 19, 2022, 02:24:55 PM
Well we don't exist in a vacuum. We were in the Championship 3 years ago, so bridging the gap to top 4 is going to take longer than 4 seasons. Man City and Liverpool are light years ahead of everybody and so then you've got to try to finish ahead of Spurs and Chelsea. Chelsea have finished in the top 4 for 17 out of the last 20 years, and Spurs with their formidable forward line, 5 times in 7 years. We're improved a lot but still have too many regulars who aren't top 6 quality (Watkins, Mings, McGinn etc).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 19, 2022, 02:35:52 PM
Harry Maguire finished in the top six. We have plenty of players good enough just need to add a star or two.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on July 19, 2022, 03:10:52 PM
Well we don't exist in a vacuum. We were in the Championship 3 years ago, so bridging the gap to top 4 is going to take longer than 4 seasons. Man City and Liverpool are light years ahead of everybody and so then you've got to try to finish ahead of Spurs and Chelsea. Chelsea have finished in the top 4 for 17 out of the last 20 years, and Spurs with their formidable forward line, 5 times in 7 years. We're improved a lot but still have too many regulars who aren't top 6 quality (Watkins, Mings, McGinn etc).

Spot on Risso, particularly the vacuum point.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 19, 2022, 03:24:50 PM
We haven't finished in the top half for an entire decade.

7th would be a good season.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: jwarry on July 19, 2022, 03:28:47 PM
Well we don't exist in a vacuum. We were in the Championship 3 years ago, so bridging the gap to top 4 is going to take longer than 4 seasons. Man City and Liverpool are light years ahead of everybody and so then you've got to try to finish ahead of Spurs and Chelsea. Chelsea have finished in the top 4 for 17 out of the last 20 years, and Spurs with their formidable forward line, 5 times in 7 years. We're improved a lot but still have too many regulars who aren't top 6 quality (Watkins, Mings, McGinn etc).

Spot on Risso, particularly the vacuum point.

I wouldnot disagree but Leicester made bullshit of that a few years ago
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2022, 03:31:36 PM
Well we don't exist in a vacuum. We were in the Championship 3 years ago, so bridging the gap to top 4 is going to take longer than 4 seasons. Man City and Liverpool are light years ahead of everybody and so then you've got to try to finish ahead of Spurs and Chelsea. Chelsea have finished in the top 4 for 17 out of the last 20 years, and Spurs with their formidable forward line, 5 times in 7 years. We're improved a lot but still have too many regulars who aren't top 6 quality (Watkins, Mings, McGinn etc).

Spot on Risso, particularly the vacuum point.

I wouldnot disagree but Leicester made bullshit of that a few years ago

Yeah bit of a freak. The established lot got complacent and they’ve since redoubled their efforts.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Vegas on July 19, 2022, 03:34:17 PM
Seventh is the new fourth.

It would be a sign of progress, though we should be getting 8th at least I think.

I'm finding it harder to equate great owners and such an apparently highly-regarded manager with seventh or eighth being a success, particularly given our transfer strategy.


Well I'd argue that Liverpool and Man City are pretty well uncatchable at the moment, and then you'll have Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal probably going for the 3rd to 5th places. However well we've bought, Spurs have Kane and Song who have guaranteed them roughly 30-40 goals a season between them for the last 5 years. If the new players click into place and we get off to a good start, I can't see why we shouldn't be up and around 6th place with the likes of Man U, Leicester and West Ham though. To go further, we need better strikers.

I agree with Dave, I really can’t see our owners accepting anything less than top 4.  I also can’t see Gerrard lasting long if he doesn’t deliver it.  There’s been so much investment in players, coaches, other staff and infrastructure that they clearly feel we should not be fearing the top 4.  Problem is at the moment I haven’t detected a team that feels the same way

Sorry, I think that is a totally unreasonable expectation.

Arsenal finished 25 points or so ahead of us last year, but still not in the top 4, and have a young team to which they’ve added Zinchenko and Jesus. How on earth can our expectation be “nothing less than top 4”.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 19, 2022, 04:13:04 PM
Well we don't exist in a vacuum. We were in the Championship 3 years ago, so bridging the gap to top 4 is going to take longer than 4 seasons. Man City and Liverpool are light years ahead of everybody and so then you've got to try to finish ahead of Spurs and Chelsea. Chelsea have finished in the top 4 for 17 out of the last 20 years, and Spurs with their formidable forward line, 5 times in 7 years. We're improved a lot but still have too many regulars who aren't top 6 quality (Watkins, Mings, McGinn etc).

Spot on Risso, particularly the vacuum point.

I wouldnot disagree but Leicester made bullshit of that a few years ago

An absolute freak result, mainly because they temporarily had three of the best players in the league. Vardy and Mahrez got 41 goals between them, and they had Kante in midfield in front of a fairly solid defence. There are exceptions to the rule (eg by having an exceptional defence) but on the whole to be looking at top 4 you want two attacking players who are going to get 30+ goals between them. We don't have that, which is why I think we need a big upgrade on Watkins.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on July 19, 2022, 04:21:39 PM
Well we don't exist in a vacuum. We were in the Championship 3 years ago, so bridging the gap to top 4 is going to take longer than 4 seasons. Man City and Liverpool are light years ahead of everybody and so then you've got to try to finish ahead of Spurs and Chelsea. Chelsea have finished in the top 4 for 17 out of the last 20 years, and Spurs with their formidable forward line, 5 times in 7 years. We're improved a lot but still have too many regulars who aren't top 6 quality (Watkins, Mings, McGinn etc).
And Spurs have done some fantastic business in the last two windows - Bissouma, Persic, Spence, Kulusevski, Bentancur, Romero...  Not sure about Richarlison but feelhe may be decent in a better team.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 19, 2022, 04:22:54 PM
Well we don't exist in a vacuum. We were in the Championship 3 years ago, so bridging the gap to top 4 is going to take longer than 4 seasons. Man City and Liverpool are light years ahead of everybody and so then you've got to try to finish ahead of Spurs and Chelsea. Chelsea have finished in the top 4 for 17 out of the last 20 years, and Spurs with their formidable forward line, 5 times in 7 years. We're improved a lot but still have too many regulars who aren't top 6 quality (Watkins, Mings, McGinn etc).
And Spurs have done some fantastic business in the last two windows - Bissouma, Persic, Spence, Kulusevski, Bentancur, Romero...  Not sure about Richarlison but feelhe may be decent in a better team.

Agree totally. Manager's not bad either.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: jwarry on July 19, 2022, 05:36:49 PM
Well we don't exist in a vacuum. We were in the Championship 3 years ago, so bridging the gap to top 4 is going to take longer than 4 seasons. Man City and Liverpool are light years ahead of everybody and so then you've got to try to finish ahead of Spurs and Chelsea. Chelsea have finished in the top 4 for 17 out of the last 20 years, and Spurs with their formidable forward line, 5 times in 7 years. We're improved a lot but still have too many regulars who aren't top 6 quality (Watkins, Mings, McGinn etc).
And Spurs have done some fantastic business in the last two windows - Bissouma, Persic, Spence, Kulusevski, Bentancur, Romero...  Not sure about Richarlison but feelhe may be decent in a better team.

Yes I agree.  I thought they were on the wain post Poch but fair play to the tight fisted wanker he’s put them back on the straight and narrow, much to my chagrin
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 19, 2022, 05:39:45 PM
Anyone see the Aljazeera documentary featuring Dr Tony?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Beard82 on July 19, 2022, 05:45:40 PM
Well we don't exist in a vacuum. We were in the Championship 3 years ago, so bridging the gap to top 4 is going to take longer than 4 seasons. Man City and Liverpool are light years ahead of everybody and so then you've got to try to finish ahead of Spurs and Chelsea. Chelsea have finished in the top 4 for 17 out of the last 20 years, and Spurs with their formidable forward line, 5 times in 7 years. We're improved a lot but still have too many regulars who aren't top 6 quality (Watkins, Mings, McGinn etc).
I would say if we are honest, they have got more experienced, and most likely better managers.  We're hoping we have grabbed the top "up and coming" one - but thats a gamble the sky 6 dont have to take
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 19, 2022, 06:53:37 PM
Well we don't exist in a vacuum. We were in the Championship 3 years ago, so bridging the gap to top 4 is going to take longer than 4 seasons. Man City and Liverpool are light years ahead of everybody and so then you've got to try to finish ahead of Spurs and Chelsea. Chelsea have finished in the top 4 for 17 out of the last 20 years, and Spurs with their formidable forward line, 5 times in 7 years. We're improved a lot but still have too many regulars who aren't top 6 quality (Watkins, Mings, McGinn etc).
I would say if we are honest, they have got more experienced, and most likely better managers.  We're hoping we have grabbed the top "up and coming" one - but thats a gamble the sky 6 dont have to take

There are no guarantees though.  Arsenal and Spurs went for experience in Emery and Mourinho, to less than great effect.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeonW on July 19, 2022, 07:17:56 PM
We have to be realistic; we're nowhere near the top 4 and won't be for awhile. We fell down at the worst point and our trajectory to recover to where we are now has been very good - still ahead of schedule. There will come a time when once again, clubs offering Champions League football will come calling for the likes of Martinez, Cash, maybe Kamara and Ramsey if they continue to progress. We'll likely struggle to keep them but could make huge profits from sales. Where we've gone wrong before is not recovering quickly enough with unwise investments and that's been pretty consistent over the last 30 years. The model we should be aiming for (at present) is Sevilla; invest wisely to progress, sell the talent at a profit and then re-invest wisely. They've done this for close to 20 years. They're always ready for their better players leaving and still they compete beyond their means and win trophies. If we follow this model successfully with the owners we have, our financial strength will eventually allow us to go beyond a Sevilla model to a different one where we can potentially (finally) keep our best players. I think our owners are realistic to know we can't just bridge the gap immediately but are demanding - not necessarily a negative. They're investments and commitments to youth development and in the stadium are long term - not quick returns on investments although they will of course add value in a potential future sale but I think they're in it for the long term. 60 points is realistic this season and will reflect progress. It will also mean we'll be in a better position with regards recruitment next summer.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Paul.S on July 19, 2022, 07:40:55 PM
Totally agree Leon.
These owners we have, in my opinion are doing things the right way and thank god we’ve got them.
Growing the youth set up while investing in the first team is what I want our club to continue to do.
Add to that the investment to BMH and Villa Park shows they are the right people to take us forward.
This top 4 malarkey is something I detest because taking part in Europe’s elite tournament should come to those who deserve it by winning their respective league.
I get more from seeing our young players develop than I would seeing us finishing 4th and dancing round the pitch.

Up The Villa!!!!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Beard82 on July 19, 2022, 07:42:55 PM
Well we don't exist in a vacuum. We were in the Championship 3 years ago, so bridging the gap to top 4 is going to take longer than 4 seasons. Man City and Liverpool are light years ahead of everybody and so then you've got to try to finish ahead of Spurs and Chelsea. Chelsea have finished in the top 4 for 17 out of the last 20 years, and Spurs with their formidable forward line, 5 times in 7 years. We're improved a lot but still have too many regulars who aren't top 6 quality (Watkins, Mings, McGinn etc).
I would say if we are honest, they have got more experienced, and most likely better managers.  We're hoping we have grabbed the top "up and coming" one - but thats a gamble the sky 6 dont have to take
Yeah, of course - but generally speaking they can mitgate risk that way

There are no guarantees though.  Arsenal and Spurs went for experience in Emery and Mourinho, to less than great effect.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 19, 2022, 08:47:24 PM
Tomorrow is the anniversary of shit shoes selling up to Wes & Nas I believe.

Happy anniversary you magnificent bastards.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 19, 2022, 09:17:15 PM
Well we don't exist in a vacuum. We were in the Championship 3 years ago, so bridging the gap to top 4 is going to take longer than 4 seasons. Man City and Liverpool are light years ahead of everybody and so then you've got to try to finish ahead of Spurs and Chelsea. Chelsea have finished in the top 4 for 17 out of the last 20 years, and Spurs with their formidable forward line, 5 times in 7 years. We're improved a lot but still have too many regulars who aren't top 6 quality (Watkins, Mings, McGinn etc).

Agree with this although Liverpool are in an interesting phase as I think they'll miss Mane and have some older key players. They've been pretty fortunate with their prior recruitment and as they're not big spenders they will need this to continue which is by no means guaranteed.

I would say we're looking at continuing our upward progress (whether that's 6th, 7th, 8th) for the next few seasons. Then hopefully we'll be in a position to do similar to Citeh, Chelsea and Liverpool i.e. keeping those promising youngsters that can make the the first team and selling off the others for 10-20m fees thus freeing up FFP for the additional big signings we need. By then VP will have been redeveloped and Klopp and Pep may have buggered off so the landscape may have changed a bit again.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dave P on July 19, 2022, 10:24:07 PM
Tomorrow is the anniversary of shit shoes selling up to Wes & Nas I believe.

Happy anniversary you magnificent bastards.

When small heath fans thought we were going out of business. SHA was something like this …


(https://i.ibb.co/b29h4zr/B6629-ED6-FCAF-4-A66-ABBF-6-C02-C0-EA5524.gif) (https://ibb.co/b29h4zr)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on November 01, 2022, 04:15:12 PM
Soooo, given our commitment to Emery, of the longest managerial deal in our history, as well as nice long deals for some of our better players, and the redevelopment of Villa Park and it's environs, are we now satisfied that the owners really are still as committed as we thought? There were some questions before but given the quality of the man coming in, and the things I guess he was promised, are we all feeling positive again?

My gut feeling is that these guys really are in it for the long haul, they want to succeed and are putting the framework in place.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aj2k77 on November 01, 2022, 04:20:52 PM
Yes. I'm hoping that the fallacy of the Gerrard experiment/risk has proven to them the need for a talented, experienced manager/coach and without one everything else is almost rendered pointless. I very much doubt they will take a chance on an unproven appointment again because of personal connections.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on November 01, 2022, 05:16:36 PM
Soooo, given our commitment to Emery, of the longest managerial deal in our history, as well as nice long deals for some of our better players, and the redevelopment of Villa Park and it's environs, are we now satisfied that the owners really are still as committed as we thought? There were some questions before but given the quality of the man coming in, and the things I guess he was promised, are we all feeling positive again?

My gut feeling is that these guys really are in it for the long haul, they want to succeed and are putting the framework in place.

I have never doubted their commitment and all the trappings of infrastructure, stadium etc are great but i would like to see us starting to pay the big bucks for top class players.

Our biggest purchase to date is Buendia (£33m) which for the larger clubs is below the cost for an average full back

Our keeper - as great as he is / was cost £20m where the hopeful European clubs are buying them for £70m+

I am not just talking about the Cite£ lot either, quite a few clubs are spending £50+ for players yet we seem stuck with a glass window on transfer fees
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 01, 2022, 05:19:21 PM
Those glass windows are the worst.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rigadon on November 01, 2022, 05:23:58 PM
The Villa is looking more like an ambitious club again with Emery coming in - difficult to argue against that being about as good an appointment as we could've pulled out the bag.  He's won more than some of the other big names we were discussing too, so not some kind of booby prize or also-ran. 

They must've promised mega bucks transfer budgets to get him to come, so I'm back in the 'believer' camp!  Hallelujah! 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: jwarry on November 02, 2022, 10:06:47 AM
Soooo, given our commitment to Emery, of the longest managerial deal in our history, as well as nice long deals for some of our better players, and the redevelopment of Villa Park and it's environs, are we now satisfied that the owners really are still as committed as we thought? There were some questions before but given the quality of the man coming in, and the things I guess he was promised, are we all feeling positive again?

My gut feeling is that these guys really are in it for the long haul, they want to succeed and are putting the framework in place.

I have never doubted their commitment and all the trappings of infrastructure, stadium etc are great but i would like to see us starting to pay the big bucks for top class players.

Our biggest purchase to date is Buendia (£33m) which for the larger clubs is below the cost for an average full back

Our keeper - as great as he is / was cost £20m where the hopeful European clubs are buying them for £70m+

I am not just talking about the Cite£ lot either, quite a few clubs are spending £50+ for players yet we seem stuck with a glass window on transfer fees

Either that or £50m+ players don’t want to come here as we are not in the champs league
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on November 02, 2022, 10:30:01 AM
Yep, and the salaries that go with them is also a risk. Breaking our wage structure/making him the top-earner is how we got Coutinho on the cheap, transfer-wise.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dick Edwards on November 02, 2022, 11:18:12 AM
Surely we'd be hamstrung by FFP if we started throwing the really serious money around...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on November 02, 2022, 12:57:43 PM
Surely we'd be hamstrung by FFP if we started throwing the really serious money around...

As DW has stated several time - it only seems to be an issue with us
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on November 02, 2022, 01:06:45 PM
Surely we'd be hamstrung by FFP if we started throwing the really serious money around...

As DW has stated several time - it only seems to be an issue with us

Not many other teams are chucking it about.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 02, 2022, 01:20:38 PM
We did, when we were a newly promoted team. No reason why we can't do so with three years of Premier League cash and loads of Grealish and Chukwuemeka money.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FatSam on November 02, 2022, 01:27:20 PM
Isn’t our budget about the 7/8th highest in the league? I can’t see how we could realistically expect to splurge more before our revenues increase. We need to start overachieving on the pitch, rather than underachieving. The problem isn’t the level of financial commitment.

I don’t see the relevance of Chelsea spending £70m on a keeper. We just bought well when we got Martinez. We also did so when we’d just stayed-up on 35 points. Chelsea were competing for top domestic and European honours at this time. Should Man City have spent £90m on Nunez rather than £50m on Haaland?

I never understand it when fans say ‘I don’t care how much a player costs, it’s not my money’. Even if the owners are very wealthy, their resources are still finite, and they have other commitments competing for them. At one point we thought Randy was the saviour. It didn’t turn out like that. Despite their enormous wealth, the Man City owners concentrated on putting the infrastructure in place to have the potential for them to be self sufficient.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on November 03, 2022, 07:45:00 PM
Drove past the new academy on the Brookvale site today. They're well underway with it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 08, 2023, 09:45:23 PM
Come on never mind about a 50k stadium.  Get your debit cards out and support the manager properly.  And help him get rid of some of these utterly not good enough fringe players.  And help him get rid of Lang whilst you’re at it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aj2k77 on January 08, 2023, 09:48:04 PM
Lange has helped conjure up a right shit show of a squad for huge sums of money. He's clearly not up to it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: astonvilla82 on January 09, 2023, 12:30:34 AM
Imagine what the owners are thinking after watching this lot today
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 09, 2023, 12:41:47 AM
They’re thinking this is why we need to support this manager. Because he can’t keep pulling rabbits out of his arse with this squad. I am sure between now and August upwards of 10 players will be bought or sold.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 09, 2023, 10:06:15 AM
I've never really given Lange a huge amount of thought, but thinking about his signings currently, it doesn't reflect very well on him at all.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 09, 2023, 11:09:59 AM
Imagine what the owners are thinking after watching this lot today
I think it’s called buyers remorse and how the fuck did we spend so much money to end up with so many crap players.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 09, 2023, 11:17:47 AM
Purslow and Lange need to be first out of the door in the summer.  Along with;

Olsen, Sanson, Bednarek, Chambers, Dendoncker, Ludwig, Coutinho, Konsa, Bailey (even though I still think he can do something I just don't know what).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Scott Nielsen on January 19, 2023, 02:25:56 AM
Deloitte reveal more than half of world’s 20 richest clubs are in Premier League:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jan/19/more-than-half-20-richest-clubs-in-world-premier-league-deloitte-report (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jan/19/more-than-half-20-richest-clubs-in-world-premier-league-deloitte-report)

Includes West Ham, Leicester, Leeds, Everton and Newcastle but not Villa.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on January 19, 2023, 09:15:28 AM
Deloitte reveal more than half of world’s 20 richest clubs are in Premier League:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jan/19/more-than-half-20-richest-clubs-in-world-premier-league-deloitte-report (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jan/19/more-than-half-20-richest-clubs-in-world-premier-league-deloitte-report)

Includes West Ham, Leicester, Leeds, Everton and Newcastle but not Villa.


Fuck the European places and the FA Cup, I won't sleep until we're back in that. *Tom Fox mode off*
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on January 19, 2023, 09:21:45 AM
Reading that, I also came across this article which mentions Villa and is relevant to us and our standing in the modern game.


https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2023/jan/17/everton-protests-are-not-about-money-they-are-about-hope-and-connection
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on January 19, 2023, 10:06:52 AM
Everton ahead of us? C'mon, their squad is shite.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Paul.S on January 19, 2023, 10:31:04 AM
We have fantastic owners who are building the infrastructure to make us very competitive. The foundations are being put in place and we aren’t out protesting about them, they aren’t flogging us, we own our own ground and are heading in the right direction. I think that puts us way ahead of a lot of EPL clubs in this money league. Couldn’t be happier with who owns us and the vision they still have.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 19, 2023, 10:34:51 AM
We need to do a lot to boost our commercial income, it's been largely flat for way too long.

I trust our owners and their undoubtedly massive business acumen (compared to Lerner, the clueless idiot), but I do look at things like that BK8 deal and wonder why we're not getting higher paying more prestigious sponsors yet.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on January 19, 2023, 10:43:25 AM
Do we own our own ground or do the owners?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Paul.S on January 19, 2023, 10:43:40 AM
We need to do a lot to boost our commercial income, it's been largely flat for way too long.

I trust our owners and their undoubtedly massive business acumen (compared to Lerner, the clueless idiot), but I do look at things like that BK8 deal and wonder why we're not getting higher paying more prestigious sponsors yet.

I agree with this and of course money and our commercial activities are vital. Maybe it’s a geographical thing as the press always like to push their favourite clubs in London and Manchester, giving them a lot more coverage than us. Newcastle have instantly become media darlings and one of the best clubs in the world, minus the silver wear but with the bestest fans, ever in the universe. I just think we have a harder job regarding commercial deals but once the foundations are in place and we start knocking on the door, hopefully the commercial side will grow accordingly.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 19, 2023, 10:48:20 AM
We need to do a lot to boost our commercial income, it's been largely flat for way too long.

I trust our owners and their undoubtedly massive business acumen (compared to Lerner, the clueless idiot), but I do look at things like that BK8 deal and wonder why we're not getting higher paying more prestigious sponsors yet.

I agree with this and of course money and our commercial activities are vital. Maybe it’s a geographical thing as the press always like to push their favourite clubs in London and Manchester, giving them a lot more coverage than us. Newcastle have instantly become media darlings and one of the best clubs in the world, minus the silver wear but with the bestest fans, ever in the universe. I just think we have a harder job regarding commercial deals but once the foundations are in place and we start knocking on the door, hopefully the commercial side will grow accordingly.

There's a degree of truth in that, but if we ever got our act together long term, then we'd get exactly the same coverage.

Newcastle are getting a lot of it at the moment, but they're currently third in the league having spent years being the byword for rubbish. If we were in that role, we'd be getting plenty of coverage too.

Basically, the route to media love and increased riches is to stop being so irrelevant on the pitch - lest we forget, we haven't finished in the top half of the PL for 12 years now, and weren't even it it for 3 of those.

At some point we've got to convert some of this "loads of potential, sleeping giant" respect into actual results.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Paul.S on January 19, 2023, 11:00:41 AM
We need to do a lot to boost our commercial income, it's been largely flat for way too long.

I trust our owners and their undoubtedly massive business acumen (compared to Lerner, the clueless idiot), but I do look at things like that BK8 deal and wonder why we're not getting higher paying more prestigious sponsors yet.

I agree with this and of course money and our commercial activities are vital. Maybe it’s a geographical thing as the press always like to push their favourite clubs in London and Manchester, giving them a lot more coverage than us. Newcastle have instantly become media darlings and one of the best clubs in the world, minus the silver wear but with the bestest fans, ever in the universe. I just think we have a harder job regarding commercial deals but once the foundations are in place and we start knocking on the door, hopefully the commercial side will grow accordingly.

There's a degree of truth in that, but if we ever got our act together long term, then we'd get exactly the same coverage.

Newcastle are getting a lot of it at the moment, but they're currently third in the league having spent years being the byword for rubbish. If we were in that role, we'd be getting plenty of coverage too.

Basically, the route to media love and increased riches is to stop being so irrelevant on the pitch - lest we forget, we haven't finished in the top half of the PL for 12 years now, and weren't even it it for 3 of those.

At some point we've got to convert some of this "loads of potential, sleeping giant" respect into actual results.


I agree with the on pitch points. Hopefully the Gerrard sacking directly after the Fulham game shows our owners are not impressed with the on pitch failures. They may have decided to take that side of it into their own hands now having seen the failure to show much improvement, hence the Emery appointment.
I do think though that Newcastle became an honorary member of the Sky 6 as soon as they were taken over. We do have to move on results wise and there are now no excuses. We’ve never been a media favourite, even back in 81 and 82 but such is the London based bias in all formats of life.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 19, 2023, 01:27:27 PM
Exactly. Our national irrelevance is our own doing. Get it right on the pitch we become impossible not to talk about. Man City and Chelsea weren’t always this way in the media. They have won loads (however that all came about), they still did it on the pitch and won trophies. There is always going to be some national bias towards certain clubs based on where the media is located and concentrated. But to be noticed we just need to get it right for a sustained period of time. The media will cover what gets them most hits and follows.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FatSam on January 19, 2023, 02:09:11 PM

Newcastle are getting a lot of it at the moment, but they're currently third in the league having spent years being the byword for rubbish. If we were in that role, we'd be getting plenty of coverage too.
Yes, Newcastle have more points now than we have ever had at this stage of a PL season, even when we came second. It is a very dramatic turnaround, and they are a credible challenge to the big four/ five/ six (delete as applicable). I don’t think we can be disappointed that we aren’t getting the same attention.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 19, 2023, 03:19:53 PM
Do we own our own ground or do the owners?
The same people who own the club you mean.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 19, 2023, 04:23:00 PM
Do we own our own ground or do the owners?
The same people who own the club you mean.

It's not necessarily the same thing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 19, 2023, 06:56:50 PM
Do we own our own ground or do the owners?
The same people who own the club you mean.

It's not necessarily the same thing.
If the owners own the shares in the company that owns the club and also in the company that owns the ground, how so?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 19, 2023, 10:43:34 PM
Do we own our own ground or do the owners?
The same people who own the club you mean.

It's not necessarily the same thing.
If the owners own the shares in the company that owns the club and also in the company that owns the ground, how so?

Because it's not the owners who own the club, it's the companies which they control. Legally, those are not the same thing.

On top of that, they could be two different entities, one owning the club and one the ground, and even having the same people ultimately controlling them, that does not mean they have to always move in lock-step.

They could, for example, sell the company owning the stadium to a third party tomorrow. That's not something they could do so easily if it was all in the ownership of the same company.

I am not saying they would want to do that, or are intending to do so, just that it's not quite as simple as you made out.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 20, 2023, 09:11:02 AM
Do we own our own ground or do the owners?
The same people who own the club you mean.

It's not necessarily the same thing.
If the owners own the shares in the company that owns the club and also in the company that owns the ground, how so?

Because it's not the owners who own the club, it's the companies which they control. Legally, those are not the same thing.

On top of that, they could be two different entities, one owning the club and one the ground, and even having the same people ultimately controlling them, that does not mean they have to always move in lock-step.

They could, for example, sell the company owning the stadium to a third party tomorrow. That's not something they could do so easily if it was all in the ownership of the same company.

I am not saying they would want to do that, or are intending to do so, just that it's not quite as simple as you made out.
The owners of the companies that own the Club and the Ground are Wes Edens and Nashe Swaris.
So they control both. Even if the ground was in the same entity as the club they would if they were inclined be able to sell it, Companies do this all the time.
Explain one thing that the owners could not do with the ground or the club because of the fact that they are in separate Legal entities that they control and own?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on January 20, 2023, 09:46:27 AM
Explain one thing that the owners could not do with the ground or the club because of the fact that they are in separate Legal entities that they control and own?

Sell the company with the ground to a completely unrelated entity? I don't think they will, and I understand why they had to do what they did, but obviously if they weren't such good owners the possibility would be there that somebody more unscrupulous could end up owning it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on January 20, 2023, 09:52:53 AM
Either way the question was whether the club own the ground and the answer is no. In context of this richest clubs list that will move us down the list.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 20, 2023, 10:03:50 AM
Explain one thing that the owners could not do with the ground or the club because of the fact that they are in separate Legal entities that they control and own?

Sell the company with the ground to a completely unrelated entity? I don't think they will, and I understand why they had to do what they did, but obviously if they weren't such good owners the possibility would be there that somebody more unscrupulous could end up owning it.
if that was possible or desirable there is nothing regarding which entity the ground is under that could stop them doing that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 20, 2023, 10:05:06 AM
Either way the question was whether the club own the ground and the answer is no. In context of this richest clubs list that will move us down the list.
But the club and the ground is owned by the same people through ther ownership of the entities that own the club and the ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on January 20, 2023, 10:08:11 AM
Either way the question was whether the club own the ground and the answer is no. In context of this richest clubs list that will move us down the list.
But the club and the ground is owned by the same people.

Which is completely irrelevant for the purpose of a richest clubs list and isn't the same as the club owning the ground. The difference is meaningless in most cases but legally the club and ground are different companies, with seperate finances, etc.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 20, 2023, 10:11:04 AM
Either way the question was whether the club own the ground and the answer is no. In context of this richest clubs list that will move us down the list.
But the club and the ground is owned by the same people.

Which is completely irrelevant for the purpose of a richest clubs list and isn't the same as the club owning the ground. The difference is meaningless in most cases but legally the club and ground are different companies, with seperate finances, etc.
I didn’t bring the richest club list into it which is irrelevant.
Yes I think I have explained multiple times that the club and the ground are in separate legal entities both of which are owned by the same people.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on January 20, 2023, 10:14:17 AM
Either way the question was whether the club own the ground and the answer is no. In context of this richest clubs list that will move us down the list.
But the club and the ground is owned by the same people.

Which is completely irrelevant for the purpose of a richest clubs list and isn't the same as the club owning the ground. The difference is meaningless in most cases but legally the club and ground are different companies, with seperate finances, etc.
I didn’t bring the richest club list into it which is irrelevant.
Yes I think I have explained multiple times that the club and the ground are in separate legal entities both of which are owned by the same people.

You answered a question about the ownership of the ground that came up after the top 20 list was mentioned, that was clearly the context for it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 20, 2023, 10:32:05 AM
Either way the question was whether the club own the ground and the answer is no. In context of this richest clubs list that will move us down the list.
But the club and the ground is owned by the same people.

Which is completely irrelevant for the purpose of a richest clubs list and isn't the same as the club owning the ground. The difference is meaningless in most cases but legally the club and ground are different companies, with seperate finances, etc.
I didn’t bring the richest club list into it which is irrelevant.
Yes I think I have explained multiple times that the club and the ground are in separate legal entities both of which are owned by the same people.

You answered a question about the ownership of the ground that came up after the top 20 list was mentioned, that was clearly the context for it.
I was dealing specifically with the question regarding ownership that’s all.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on January 20, 2023, 11:33:56 AM
You answered a question about the ownership of the ground that came up after the top 20 list was mentioned, that was clearly the context for it.
I was dealing specifically with the question regarding ownership that’s all.

and the answer is that the club don't own the ground, it's really that simple, I don't see why you've decided to argue about this.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on January 20, 2023, 11:34:49 AM
Think I've opened a can of worms with the initial question. Sorry! I was just thinking back to when our owners put their purchase of Villa Park on the books of the club (i.e as a sale) to help with FFP (presumably) and I remember there being a little unease at the time as Derby were having issues with Mel Morris' ownership of Pride Park scuppering new investment into the club.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on January 20, 2023, 11:49:30 AM
Think I've opened a can of worms with the initial question. Sorry! I was just thinking back to when our owners put their purchase of Villa Park on the books of the club (i.e as a sale) to help with FFP (presumably) and I remember there being a little unease at the time as Derby were having issues with Mel Morris' ownership of Pride Park scuppering new investment into the club.

In normal operation, and with owners who are invested and want to progress (which ours clearly do, it's a bit odd that we haven't seen much of the fella claiming they were 'doing a lerner' since Emery joined) the ground ownership doesn't really matter much beyond some financial nerdery. Derby were different because he wasn't investing and was trying to sell but wanted to negotiate seperately for the club and ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on January 20, 2023, 11:55:55 AM
Sure, I think some of the murmurring were regarding when the time comes for NSWE to sell the club, whether they could in theory make things difficult for prospective buyers (and by extension, us fans).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on January 20, 2023, 12:01:53 PM
What do we think the expected increase in revenue will be from the Stadium development ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 23, 2023, 06:57:21 PM
160 disgraceful un-sold seats remain for Leicester.

SACK THE BOARD.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan For Life on January 23, 2023, 07:11:51 PM
160 disgraceful un-sold seats remain for Leicester.

SACK THE BOARD.

You are Flin5stone and I claim my £5
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Pete3206 on January 23, 2023, 07:30:08 PM
If that was the increased capacity, we'd have 30,000 empty seats.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Border villan on January 23, 2023, 07:42:45 PM
160 disgraceful un-sold seats remain for Leicester.

SACK THE BOARD.

FAKE NEWS there are a whole 107 left.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LukeJames on January 23, 2023, 07:44:10 PM
Makes ya feel sick!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: astonvilla82 on January 23, 2023, 08:03:41 PM
160 disgraceful un-sold seats remain for Leicester.

SACK THE BOARD.

You are Flin5stone and I claim my £5
No I am Flintstone and I claim my £5
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: bob on January 23, 2023, 08:06:01 PM
Fivers flying about AOTS hope it doesn't impact FFP
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 23, 2023, 08:10:38 PM
Fivers flying about AOTS hope it doesn't impact FFP
AOTS?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on January 23, 2023, 08:11:17 PM
Fivers flying about AOTS hope it doesn't impact FFP

AOTS?

All over the shop.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Border villan on January 23, 2023, 08:24:11 PM
160 disgraceful un-sold seats remain for Leicester.

SACK THE BOARD.

You are Flin5stone and I claim my £5
No I am Flintstone and I claim my £5

Can I be Spartacus?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Scratchins on January 24, 2023, 08:03:15 AM
160 disgraceful un-sold seats remain for Leicester.

SACK THE BOARD.

You are Flin5stone and I claim my £5
No I am Flintstone and I claim my £5



71 seats left, scattered around the ground in singles by the look of it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on January 24, 2023, 08:34:10 AM
160 disgraceful un-sold seats remain for Leicester.

SACK THE BOARD.

You are Flin5stone and I claim my £5
No I am Flintstone and I claim my £5



71 seats left, scattered around the ground in singles by the look of it.

Our first Saturday 3pm home game this season
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nev on January 24, 2023, 08:41:38 AM
160 disgraceful un-sold seats remain for Leicester.

SACK THE BOARD.

You are Flin5stone and I claim my £5
No I am Flintstone and I claim my £5



71 seats left, scattered around the ground in singles by the look of it.

Our first Saturday 3pm home game this season

Almost feels like a Cup Final day out.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: leylandalbion on January 24, 2023, 12:19:19 PM
Fans initiative for as many to bring scarfs as well. Should be a great welcome for Duran and whoever else!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sdwbvf on January 24, 2023, 07:48:08 PM
Don't think there's much chance of not if the weather keeps up.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on February 01, 2023, 03:25:15 PM
I wonder if the owners have been hit financially. Sawaris has a large stake in Adidas, and their share price halved over the last few months. Egypt has serious currency issues at the moment too, as the banks have no dollars following a collapse in value against the dollar. I operate in the same industry as Sawaris there (fertiliser), and some very large companies in the industry have millions of dollars worth of goods stuck in port there. Farmers have not been able to access seed to plant crops this season in some sectors. I have had money stuck in the system there for 6 months as my customers' bank can't get dollars, and can't get goods out of the docks because of it.

I doubt he is skint, but he could well have issues accessing some of his funds at the moment.

Might explain the january window parsimony.

Thereagain maybe the club needs to trim the wage bill enough to free up enough for a couple of more expensive signings in the summer. Either way with Emery managing us we will do better next season.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 01, 2023, 03:27:38 PM
I would say he is down to his last $6bn.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 01, 2023, 03:29:18 PM
Sawiris is based in London though, and I'd be surprised if he holds much of his free cash in a relatively volatile spot like Egypt.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on February 01, 2023, 03:54:47 PM
Sawiris is based in London though, and I'd be surprised if he holds much of his free cash in a relatively volatile spot like Egypt.

No I doubt it too, it's more the ability to move new cash from his business interests that I think may be a temporary issue. I have about $700k stuck in Egypt that I have been slowly getting in £10k chunks. My customer has the money in the bank in Egyptian pounds, but the central bank is restricting access to US dollars, Euros and Sterling so the bank can't pay me. This is a serious issue for anyone exporting to Egypt at the moment, the docks are full of stuck containers pending dollar availability.

It is not like he is in the service industry, he has physical manufacturing there.

As said I doubt he is skint, but I would be very surprised if he hasn't been hit with a few issues. The farming industry is in chaos there at the moment.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Bad English on February 01, 2023, 04:05:37 PM
I have about $700k stuck in Egypt that I have been slowly getting in £10k chunks. My customer has the money in the bank in Egyptian pounds, but the central bank is restricting access to US dollars, Euros and Sterling so the bank can't pay me. This is a serious issue for anyone exporting to Egypt at the moment, the docks are full of stuck containers pending dollar availability.
If you would like to e-mail me I will get it for you through Western Union. Indeed, I've just completed a similar transaction with an ailing Nigerian gentlemen. Funnily enough, I had to send €5000 to cover the administration fees. But he says the $5m is on its way so all's good.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on February 01, 2023, 04:07:00 PM
I have about $700k stuck in Egypt that I have been slowly getting in £10k chunks. My customer has the money in the bank in Egyptian pounds, but the central bank is restricting access to US dollars, Euros and Sterling so the bank can't pay me. This is a serious issue for anyone exporting to Egypt at the moment, the docks are full of stuck containers pending dollar availability.
If you would like to e-mail me I will get it for you through Western Union. Indeed, I've just completed a similar transaction with an ailing Nigerian gentlemen. Funnily enough, I had to send €5000 to cover the administration fees. But he says the $5m is on its way so all's good.

tsk I only deal with the King himself
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: CT Villan on February 01, 2023, 04:16:21 PM
Sawiris is based in London though, and I'd be surprised if he holds much of his free cash in a relatively volatile spot like Egypt.

No I doubt it too, it's more the ability to move new cash from his business interests that I think may be a temporary issue. I have about $700k stuck in Egypt that I have been slowly getting in £10k chunks. My customer has the money in the bank in Egyptian pounds, but the central bank is restricting access to US dollars, Euros and Sterling so the bank can't pay me. This is a serious issue for anyone exporting to Egypt at the moment, the docks are full of stuck containers pending dollar availability.

It is not like he is in the service industry, he has physical manufacturing there.

As said I doubt he is skint, but I would be very surprised if he hasn't been hit with a few issues. The farming industry is in chaos there at the moment.

I dread to think what your demurrage fees are like at the port !!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on February 01, 2023, 04:23:32 PM
Sawiris is based in London though, and I'd be surprised if he holds much of his free cash in a relatively volatile spot like Egypt.

No I doubt it too, it's more the ability to move new cash from his business interests that I think may be a temporary issue. I have about $700k stuck in Egypt that I have been slowly getting in £10k chunks. My customer has the money in the bank in Egyptian pounds, but the central bank is restricting access to US dollars, Euros and Sterling so the bank can't pay me. This is a serious issue for anyone exporting to Egypt at the moment, the docks are full of stuck containers pending dollar availability.

It is not like he is in the service industry, he has physical manufacturing there.

As said I doubt he is skint, but I would be very surprised if he hasn't been hit with a few issues. The farming industry is in chaos there at the moment.

I dread to think what your demurrage fees are like at the port !!

Over $40k and counting. Cleared one container load last week, three to go.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Paul.S on February 01, 2023, 04:25:19 PM
I don’t think there’s been any deviation from what the owners said when they arrived. Invest in the youth set up, invest initially in the first team and then let the club be self sustainable.
It’s a plan I agreed with at the time and ethically I agree with it now. The only issue is that the PL spending has become ridiculous with every club having the financial power to spend more than most clubs in Europe.
Then you’ve got the sky 6 which is now a 7 with the arrival of their new club Newcastle and it’s becoming virtually impossible to challenge on a regular basis. FFP added then it’s become even harder and if clubs are allowed to negotiate their own TV deals in the future then wave goodbye to the “best league in the world.”  It’ll become even more of a monopoly than it is now.
It’s becoming a run away train and those of us old enough to remember 1992 would tell you this was predictable.
Running the club as our owners want is the only way and hopefully when this money bubble bursts we’ll be in a good position and won’t go bust.
I’ve been taken in by it at times and gave myself a slap last night at being upset by not getting a forward in. I’m grateful to them for saving us and still think they are the best owners we’ve had for a long, long time.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: gpbarr on February 01, 2023, 05:02:15 PM
I don’t think there’s been any deviation from what the owners said when they arrived. Invest in the youth set up, invest initially in the first team and then let the club be self sustainable.
It’s a plan I agreed with at the time and ethically I agree with it now. The only issue is that the PL spending has become ridiculous with every club having the financial power to spend more than most clubs in Europe.
Then you’ve got the sky 6 which is now a 7 with the arrival of their new club Newcastle and it’s becoming virtually impossible to challenge on a regular basis. FFP added then it’s become even harder and if clubs are allowed to negotiate their own TV deals in the future then wave goodbye to the “best league in the world.”  It’ll become even more of a monopoly than it is now.
It’s becoming a run away train and those of us old enough to remember 1992 would tell you this was predictable.
Running the club as our owners want is the only way and hopefully when this money bubble bursts we’ll be in a good position and won’t go bust.
I’ve been taken in by it at times and gave myself a slap last night at being upset by not getting a forward in. I’m grateful to them for saving us and still think they are the best owners we’ve had for a long, long time.

Great post. Sooner or later, as is inevitable, a few clubs are going to go bust - can’t continue at the pace it’s going. From an ownership perspective, I don’t look with envy at any other PL club.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 01, 2023, 05:03:30 PM
I remember people saying Man City's owners were going to get bored pretty quickly.

I also remember Mazrim arguing they "weren't that rich anyway".

Clubs aren't going to go bust, the likes of Boehly might be nuts, but he's not stupid.

*wink*
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on February 01, 2023, 05:07:34 PM
I remember people saying Man City's owners were going to get bored pretty quickly.

I also remember Mazrim arguing they "weren't that rich anyway".

Clubs aren't going to go bust, the likes of Boehly might be nuts, but he's not stupid.

*wink*

Did he really say that about Citeh? Jesus, I remember an article in the Observer I think it was, where they visualised the wealth of their owners against Abramovich in blocks, and the best way I can describe it was like a man standing with one parcel in front of a full Amazon fulfilment centre.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on February 01, 2023, 05:53:53 PM
If Mazrim was the man standing with the parcel, he musta been pretty short.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 01, 2023, 07:09:24 PM
I remember people saying Man City's owners were going to get bored pretty quickly.

I also remember Mazrim arguing they "weren't that rich anyway".

Clubs aren't going to go bust, the likes of Boehly might be nuts, but he's not stupid.

*wink*

Did he really say that about Citeh? Jesus, I remember an article in the Observer I think it was, where they visualised the wealth of their owners against Abramovich in blocks, and the best way I can describe it was like a man standing with one parcel in front of a full Amazon fulfilment centre.

Although that wasn't the worst Mazrimism.

I remember Spurs signing Modric and him being convinced he was a useless 'show pony' of a signing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on February 01, 2023, 08:20:35 PM
In fairness, I remember thinking that Liverpool kid Gerrard was just a thug that was never gonna be a good footballer
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 01, 2023, 10:10:59 PM
I miss Mazrim. For a wee man he had plenty of fight. A real Jack Russell of a poster.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 01, 2023, 11:27:48 PM
Where did he go?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 01, 2023, 11:31:15 PM
Villatalk
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on February 01, 2023, 11:33:18 PM
Villatalk

Is he still on there? He's one of the few I remember, along with you and Mantis.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 01, 2023, 11:33:53 PM
Villatalk

Is he still on there? He's one of the few I remember, along with you and Mantis.

Is he still praying?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rory on February 01, 2023, 11:35:12 PM
Villatalk

Is he still on there? He's one of the few I remember, along with you and Mantis.

Is he still praying?

Nice.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 01, 2023, 11:35:47 PM
Villatalk

Is he still on there? He's one of the few I remember, along with you and Mantis.

Is he still praying?

He’s probably still defending the General and shouting Semper Fidelis in his sleep
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 01, 2023, 11:40:03 PM
Villatalk

Via TBAR, right?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 01, 2023, 11:48:40 PM
Net spends of PL clubs 22/23.

Chelsea: +£548.70million
Manchester United: +£199.35m
Nottingham Forest: +£190.59m
West Ham: +£173.85m
Newcastle: +£169.80m
Southampton: +£147.15m
Arsenal: +£146.96m
Tottenham: +£145.50m
Bournemouth: +£75.45m
Wolves: +£69.35m
Liverpool: +£66.00m
Fulham: +£49.95m
Brentford: +£44.90m
Leeds: +£43.86m
Crystal Palace: +£39.03m
Aston Villa: +£36.80m
Everton: -£18.70m
Leicester: -£23.50m
Man City: -£62.76m
Brighton: -£105.60m
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on February 02, 2023, 01:17:59 AM
I miss Mazrim. For a wee man he had plenty of fight. A real Jack Russell of a poster.

Mark Fletcher and Mazrim were a great combo.
Wel lost some great posters during the desperate Villa decade of the 2010s.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: astonvilla82 on February 02, 2023, 06:04:44 AM
Net spends of PL clubs 22/23.

Chelsea: +£548.70million
Manchester United: +£199.35m
Nottingham Forest: +£190.59m
West Ham: +£173.85m
Newcastle: +£169.80m
Southampton: +£147.15m
Arsenal: +£146.96m
Tottenham: +£145.50m
Bournemouth: +£75.45m
Wolves: +£69.35m
Liverpool: +£66.00m
Fulham: +£49.95m
Brentford: +£44.90m
Leeds: +£43.86m
Crystal Palace: +£39.03m
Aston Villa: +£36.80m
Everton: -£18.70m
Leicester: -£23.50m
Man City: -£62.76m
Brighton: -£105.60m
I thought there was a economic crisis as well?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 04, 2023, 07:52:16 PM
Random thought just now.

Work on the new North Stand starts "in the spring", which I assume means no North Stand for the next two seasons whilst the new one is being built.

Which means it's going to be largely impossible for non ST holders to get tickets to matches as our capacity will be down 7k or so, which is more or less current capacity minus away seats minus season ticket holders.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on February 04, 2023, 07:59:41 PM
Random thought just now.

Work on the new North Stand starts "in the spring", which I assume means no North Stand for the next two seasons whilst the new one is being built.

Which means it's going to be largely impossible for non ST holders to get tickets to matches as our capacity will be down 7k or so, which is more or less current capacity minus away seats minus season ticket holders.


Your random thought has just given me a random thought.

Another 18% price hike for season tickets?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on February 04, 2023, 08:07:31 PM
Net spends of PL clubs 22/23.

Chelsea: +£548.70million
Manchester United: +£199.35m
Nottingham Forest: +£190.59m
West Ham: +£173.85m
Newcastle: +£169.80m
Southampton: +£147.15m
Arsenal: +£146.96m
Tottenham: +£145.50m
Bournemouth: +£75.45m
Wolves: +£69.35m
Liverpool: +£66.00m
Fulham: +£49.95m
Brentford: +£44.90m
Leeds: +£43.86m
Crystal Palace: +£39.03m
Aston Villa: +£36.80m
Everton: -£18.70m
Leicester: -£23.50m
Man City: -£62.76m
Brighton: -£105.60m

I like this. Shows we're being run sustainably and have lots of money.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 04, 2023, 08:11:16 PM
Do you get a trophy for that?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on February 04, 2023, 08:22:53 PM
Do you get a trophy for that?

Not my point. I remember summer 2018 and I'm glad we're much healthier now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on February 04, 2023, 08:30:59 PM
Random thought just now.

Work on the new North Stand starts "in the spring", which I assume means no North Stand for the next two seasons whilst the new one is being built.

Which means it's going to be largely impossible for non ST holders to get tickets to matches as our capacity will be down 7k or so, which is more or less current capacity minus away seats minus season ticket holders.



Liverpool are currently building a new Anfield Road stand whilst the existing stand is still fully open for business, so maybe we could do similar.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Goldie.7 on February 04, 2023, 08:49:48 PM
Random thought just now.

Work on the new North Stand starts "in the spring", which I assume means no North Stand for the next two seasons whilst the new one is being built.

Which means it's going to be largely impossible for non ST holders to get tickets to matches as our capacity will be down 7k or so, which is more or less current capacity minus away seats minus season ticket holders.



Liverpool are currently building a new Anfield Road stand whilst the existing stand is still fully open for business, so maybe we could do similar.

I'm looking forward to our skyscrapercity thread. I'm currently following Everton's new stadium and pools new stand on there religiously.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on February 04, 2023, 09:03:45 PM
Random thought just now.

Work on the new North Stand starts "in the spring", which I assume means no North Stand for the next two seasons whilst the new one is being built.

Which means it's going to be largely impossible for non ST holders to get tickets to matches as our capacity will be down 7k or so, which is more or less current capacity minus away seats minus season ticket holders.



Liverpool are currently building a new Anfield Road stand whilst the existing stand is still fully open for business, so maybe we could do similar.
I'm not convinced that'd be a good idea. We built the upper tier of the Doug Ellis Stand on top of the existing lower, but the lower then needed to be demolished. A complete rebuild I suspect would be best in the long run.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on February 05, 2023, 10:27:28 AM
Random thought just now.

Work on the new North Stand starts "in the spring", which I assume means no North Stand for the next two seasons whilst the new one is being built.

Which means it's going to be largely impossible for non ST holders to get tickets to matches as our capacity will be down 7k or so, which is more or less current capacity minus away seats minus season ticket holders.



Liverpool are currently building a new Anfield Road stand whilst the existing stand is still fully open for business, so maybe we could do similar.

I'm looking forward to our skyscrapercity thread. I'm currently following Everton's new stadium and pools new stand on there religiously.

We’ve got one already.

‘Villa Park Expansion’.

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threads/villa-park-expansion.2328784/page-17#post-181861353
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 05, 2023, 10:40:15 AM
Let me take a wild guess who ianrobo on there might be?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on February 05, 2023, 10:46:31 AM
Let me take a wild guess who ianrobo on there might be?

A familiar name to me too, but I can’t remember what he’s infamous for. Is he the bloke who ran for election on an anti-Ellis ticket?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 05, 2023, 11:10:29 AM
Let me take a wild guess who ianrobo on there might be?

A familiar name to me too, but I can’t remember what he’s infamous for. Is he the bloke who ran for election on an anti-Ellis ticket?

That was Ian Robinson.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 05, 2023, 11:15:00 AM
Let me take a wild guess who ianrobo on there might be?

A familiar name to me too, but I can’t remember what he’s infamous for. Is he the bloke who ran for election on an anti-Ellis ticket?

Bloody hell, you must remember Ian Robo? Made a dick of himself on here on 030303. Called Dave and Mac all the names under the sun for having the brass neck to help set up things at the ground before the game.

And bloody hell number 2, twenty years ago, christ.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on February 05, 2023, 11:20:47 AM
Let me take a wild guess who ianrobo on there might be?

A familiar name to me too, but I can’t remember what he’s infamous for. Is he the bloke who ran for election on an anti-Ellis ticket?

Bloody hell, you must remember Ian Robo? Made a dick of himself on here on 030303. Called Dave and Mac all the names under the sun for having the brass neck to help set up things at the ground before the game.

And bloody hell number 2, twenty years ago, christ.

A few years before my time, I’ve seen this mentioned a few times over the years, what does ‘help set things up’ entail?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 05, 2023, 12:18:51 PM
Dave will remember, wasn't it claret and blue cards on the seats at VP or something? Something along those lines anyway. It was a horrible night and Robobum came on afterwards and started calling everybody c***s.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on February 05, 2023, 01:54:26 PM
Let me take a wild guess who ianrobo on there might be?

A familiar name to me too, but I can’t remember what he’s infamous for. Is he the bloke who ran for election on an anti-Ellis ticket?

Bloody hell, you must remember Ian Robo? Made a dick of himself on here on 030303. Called Dave and Mac all the names under the sun for having the brass neck to help set up things at the ground before the game.

And bloody hell number 2, twenty years ago, christ.

I don’t think I was on here then. And I was ‘setting things up’ myself after the game lol.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 05, 2023, 03:34:51 PM
There were cards put in the Holte and Jay Forsyth's infamous flag display. After that night, Our Hero got increasingly irate over the next few years, seeing everything in terms of him being right and everyone else was a sell-out. He tended to get over-excited a lot. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 05, 2023, 04:03:30 PM
There were cards put in the Holte and Jay Forsyth's infamous flag display. After that night, Our Hero got increasingly irate over the next few years, seeing everything in terms of him being right and everyone else was a sell-out. He tended to get over-excited a lot. 

Haven't seen his name mentioned for years to be honest, he used to be all over Villa-related social media. he had loads of enthusiasm but as you say, mostly got completely over-excited. Wasn't he one of the main people behind, ahem, Villa Fans Combined?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on February 05, 2023, 05:11:11 PM
Random thought just now.

Work on the new North Stand starts "in the spring", which I assume means no North Stand for the next two seasons whilst the new one is being built.

Which means it's going to be largely impossible for non ST holders to get tickets to matches as our capacity will be down 7k or so, which is more or less current capacity minus away seats minus season ticket holders.



Liverpool are currently building a new Anfield Road stand whilst the existing stand is still fully open for business, so maybe we could do similar.
I'm not convinced that'd be a good idea. We built the upper tier of the Doug Ellis Stand on top of the existing lower, but the lower then needed to be demolished. A complete rebuild I suspect would be best in the long run.
They're demolishing the NS completely at the end of this season. The last remnants of the old villa park will finally go which is the lower level which was re-profiled from the old Witton end if my memory serves me correctly.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 05, 2023, 07:09:28 PM
There were cards put in the Holte and Jay Forsyth's infamous flag display. After that night, Our Hero got increasingly irate over the next few years, seeing everything in terms of him being right and everyone else was a sell-out. He tended to get over-excited a lot. 

Haven't seen his name mentioned for years to be honest, he used to be all over Villa-related social media. he had loads of enthusiasm but as you say, mostly got completely over-excited. Wasn't he one of the main people behind, ahem, Villa Fans Combined?

I think he'd given up by then.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 05, 2023, 07:35:53 PM
There were cards put in the Holte and Jay Forsyth's infamous flag display. After that night, Our Hero got increasingly irate over the next few years, seeing everything in terms of him being right and everyone else was a sell-out. He tended to get over-excited a lot. 

Haven't seen his name mentioned for years to be honest, he used to be all over Villa-related social media. he had loads of enthusiasm but as you say, mostly got completely over-excited. Wasn't he one of the main people behind, ahem, Villa Fans Combined?

I think he'd given up by then.

I remember his 'thread of thanks' (I think it was on VillaTalk) late one evening after, presumably, he'd reached the end of the bottle on rumours of a takeover that never happened. It was a hoot.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on February 06, 2023, 09:24:25 AM
There were cards put in the Holte and Jay Forsyth's infamous flag display. After that night, Our Hero got increasingly irate over the next few years, seeing everything in terms of him being right and everyone else was a sell-out. He tended to get over-excited a lot. 

Haven't seen his name mentioned for years to be honest, he used to be all over Villa-related social media. he had loads of enthusiasm but as you say, mostly got completely over-excited. Wasn't he one of the main people behind, ahem, Villa Fans Combined?

I think he'd given up by then.

I remember his 'thread of thanks' (I think it was on VillaTalk) late one evening after, presumably, he'd reached the end of the bottle on rumours of a takeover that never happened. It was a hoot.

Is he the same bloke that couldn't seem to spell 'the'?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 06, 2023, 09:32:34 AM

Is he the same bloke that couldn't seem to spell 'the'?

Teh very same.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on February 06, 2023, 09:35:28 AM
And wasn't he also the reason 'c**t night' was known as 'c**t night'?

Fun times.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 06, 2023, 09:47:26 AM
He seems to have got properly stuck in at SSC
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dicedlam on February 06, 2023, 10:23:41 AM
I remember donating towards that flag. More fool me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 06, 2023, 10:25:56 AM
He seems to have got properly stuck in at SSC

What's that?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on February 06, 2023, 10:26:43 AM
He seems to have got properly stuck in at SSC

SSC?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on February 06, 2023, 10:27:14 AM
Sky Scraper City
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on February 06, 2023, 10:30:19 AM
Thanks
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on February 06, 2023, 10:41:18 AM
He seems to have got properly stuck in at SSC

What's that?

Stupid sodding cnuts probably.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: DB on February 06, 2023, 11:13:07 AM
https://twitter.com/martynziegler/status/1622539544078827520?t=-xu2IMhXyheIKgTEv8c7Dw&s=08 oh dear
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on February 06, 2023, 11:16:54 AM
But Pep said last week that his club had been bullied while Chelsea spend with impunity. It's not fair!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on February 06, 2023, 11:26:07 AM
Relegate them, I say, like Juventus. Jack will look forward to playing Small Heath again, I'm sure!

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villafirst on February 06, 2023, 11:30:54 AM
Give them a 20 point deduction!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brend'Watkins on February 06, 2023, 11:33:44 AM
A slap on the wrist, a derisory fine and assurances they'll stick within the rules, That'll be the end of it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on February 06, 2023, 11:38:30 AM
At what point do we give-up following football if success is just won by sports-washing ? Throw these cnuts in the bin with PSG, Juve, Newcastle etc.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on February 06, 2023, 11:39:11 AM
They need to be stripped of any trophies won in the period, relegated to the 4th tier, deducted points and have a transfer embargo.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on February 06, 2023, 11:41:24 AM
None of the trophies they've "won" since their takeover are worth tuppence.  A relegation to the bottom of the pyramid and a stripping of all the titles accumulated through financial doping would be the fair and proportionate outcome.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on February 06, 2023, 11:46:52 AM
None of the trophies they've "won" since their takeover are worth tuppence.  A relegation to the bottom of the pyramid and a stripping of all the titles accumulated through financial doping would be the fair and proportionate outcome.

They're an 'asterix' club, along with Chelsea and Newcastle.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 06, 2023, 12:09:09 PM
You can take all your medals, your cups, trophies and all your pots and pans and stick them in the dustbin because you've never won any of them fairly,
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: astonvilla82 on February 06, 2023, 12:14:40 PM
And they come down like a ton of bricks with the like of Sheffield,I am sure most fans like a level playing field, but now I look at it if it legal and Villa do, crack on with it and the football authority can
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rigadon on February 06, 2023, 12:40:20 PM
My first thought is that they may want to throw the book at Man City, but will right fear that quickening the exit of that club (with, errrr, probably 6 other clubs)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SamTheMouse on February 06, 2023, 12:46:08 PM
A slap on the wrist, a derisory fine and assurances they'll stick within the rules, That'll be the end of it.

Yep, I'd be amazed if they got any more than this.

The cheating c**ts.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on February 06, 2023, 01:03:40 PM
A slap on the wrist, a derisory fine and assurances they'll stick within the rules, That'll be the end of it.

The cheating c**ts.

Ok but we should have that League Cup and the lad Grealish back 
Yep, I'd be amazed if they got any more than this.


Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on February 06, 2023, 01:35:56 PM
Seems possible that this will be the impetus for the so-called Super League to be established?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on February 06, 2023, 01:50:19 PM
None of the trophies they've "won" since their takeover are worth tuppence.  A relegation to the bottom of the pyramid and a stripping of all the titles accumulated through financial doping would be the fair and proportionate outcome.

They're an 'asterix' club, along with Chelsea and Newcastle.
If by that you mean an asterix next to every trophy won by gaining a massive unfair advantage over everyone else I'm all for it. My biggest concern would be if the money laundering clubs were stopped in their tracks we'd go back to Man U/Liverpool domination and I don't know which is worse. Its like choosing between a punch in the mush or a kick in the testicles.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 06, 2023, 02:10:40 PM
Seems possible that this will be the impetus for the so-called Super League to be established?
Its coming , just a matter of when not if.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 06, 2023, 02:23:00 PM
I really do they all fcuk off as soon as possible and make us have a league that is competitive again.  Wtf wants to get trounced four or five times a season by that lot.  It is just a question of who gets into it now.  Spurs for example are a complete joke consideration.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 06, 2023, 02:37:08 PM
I really do they all fcuk off as soon as possible and make us have a league that is competitive again.  Wtf wants to get trounced four or five times a season by that lot.  It is just a question of who gets into it now.  Spurs for example are a complete joke consideration.
It would be great as long as they don't let the C**** enter the Domestic Leagues.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 06, 2023, 02:44:10 PM
The trouble is would feel like being back in the Championship again. We want to be playing the best teams, and if the scabs all fucked off, we wouldn't be.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 06, 2023, 02:48:10 PM
The trouble is would feel like being back in the Championship again. We want to be playing the best teams, and if the scabs all fucked off, we wouldn't be.
but would you want them using the PL say as the warm up for the big games in the Super League?
We would  just become a feeder club.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sid1964 on February 06, 2023, 02:52:50 PM
Aston Villa are a feeder club to the big 6 and top European teams - if for example Martinez gets an offer from Man Utd in the summer he will be gone, same as any other player we have.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on February 06, 2023, 03:02:31 PM
The trouble is would feel like being back in the Championship again. We want to be playing the best teams, and if the scabs all fucked off, we wouldn't be.
You'd have something similar to darts, I reckon, where you've got two separate European 'Champions' - one that wins the UEFA Champions League and another that wins the European Super League or somesuch thing.

I think the reality is though that if the Premier League said that you can't play in both the European Super League and the Premier League, no English clubs would play in the ESL.  The PL is way too lucrative.  It's still not in the FA's interests to piss off clubs like Man City to the point where they might consider moving to an ESL, but honestly ... I don't think it's very likely.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on February 06, 2023, 03:14:20 PM
Seems possible that this will be the impetus for the so-called Super League to be established?

I'm not sure it would, and even if it did what's to stop everyone else selling themselves to sovereign wealth funds and media companies, and setting up their own "Super Leagues"?  It'll be like the Wild West. The Premier League have to come down hard and rein all this nonsense in.

On a side note, and to focus back on the cheating chunts, Man City, I can think of three clear ways their cheating has made an impact on Villa: 1) Man City's spending made Lerner retreat from his Villa plan. 2) The James Milner sale led to the sharp deterioration of O'Neill and Lerner's relationship. 3) The Fabian Delph sale.     Each episode was to be a key moment in our spiral towards relegation and near-liquidation.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 06, 2023, 04:01:55 PM
Seems possible that this will be the impetus for the so-called Super League to be established?

I'm not sure it would, and even if it did what's to stop everyone else selling themselves to sovereign wealth funds and media companies, and setting up their own "Super Leagues"?  It'll be like the Wild West. The Premier League have to come down hard and rein all this nonsense in.

On a side note, and to focus back on the cheating chunts, Man City, I can think of three clear ways their cheating has made an impact on Villa: 1) Man City's spending made Lerner retreat from his Villa plan. 2) The James Milner sale led to the sharp deterioration of O'Neill and Lerner's relationship. 3) The Fabian Delph sale.     Each episode was to be a key moment in our spiral towards relegation and near-liquidation.

Nah, it was years of absentee management that lead us to near oblivion.

There are plenty of other clubs who had to live in that period of Man City's financial doping who got nowhere near the low we did.

Lerner cut off the spending, yes, which did a lot of damage, but nowhere near as much as his wider stopping of giving a shit (which, lest we forget, lead to him selling up to the very same penniless shyster who took us so near to oblivion).

Lerner sold us to an absolute crook, who is now in prison somewhere in China. Can't blame Man City for that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on February 06, 2023, 04:02:38 PM
Just checking i can post.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on February 06, 2023, 04:45:56 PM
Give them a 20 point deduction!
All this would do is mean one year outside the CL.  Years of dominance at the cost of 1 year outside the CL.  It's nowhere near enough in my book.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Scratchins on February 06, 2023, 04:55:00 PM
20 points deducted today would put them 12th in the PL.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on February 06, 2023, 05:04:22 PM
Just checking i can post.

Who shot* ya?

*banned
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Paul.S on February 06, 2023, 05:04:33 PM
Seems possible that this will be the impetus for the so-called Super League to be established?
Its coming , just a matter of when not if.

100%
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on February 06, 2023, 05:05:46 PM
Seems possible that this will be the impetus for the so-called Super League to be established?
Its coming , just a matter of when not if.

100%

Is it not here with the Champions League ??
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rigadon on February 06, 2023, 05:07:11 PM
I don't think they'd deduct from this season's points tally as that would impact other clubs financially.  If they are found to be guilty as charged, they would surely have to be severely and decisively dealt with.  A points deduction / fine wouldn't be enough in my opinion. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on February 06, 2023, 05:13:30 PM
They'd probably win their remaining games and still fucking qualify.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 06, 2023, 05:23:09 PM
I don't think they'd deduct from this season's points tally as that would impact other clubs financially.  If they are found to be guilty as charged, they would surely have to be severely and decisively dealt with.  A points deduction / fine wouldn't be enough in my opinion.
You can deduct points without taking them off other teams.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on February 06, 2023, 05:28:13 PM
Just checking i can post.

Who shot* ya?

*banned

No-one. Just a glitch.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rigadon on February 06, 2023, 05:29:32 PM
I don't think they'd deduct from this season's points tally as that would impact other clubs financially.  If they are found to be guilty as charged, they would surely have to be severely and decisively dealt with.  A points deduction / fine wouldn't be enough in my opinion.
You can deduct points without taking them off other teams.


True.  But an in-season points deduction would impact league positions / 'prize' money.  Think it's more likely they'll start next season with whatever punishment.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on February 06, 2023, 05:36:27 PM
I hope they get a twenty year ban from Europe. Fines and points deductions optional.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 06, 2023, 05:37:15 PM
I don't think they'd deduct from this season's points tally as that would impact other clubs financially.  If they are found to be guilty as charged, they would surely have to be severely and decisively dealt with.  A points deduction / fine wouldn't be enough in my opinion.
You can deduct points without taking them off other teams.


True.  But an in-season points deduction would impact league positions / 'prize' money.  Think it's more likely they'll start next season with whatever punishment.
I doubt this will be concluded this season anyway.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Paul.S on February 06, 2023, 05:52:09 PM
Seems possible that this will be the impetus for the so-called Super League to be established?
Its coming , just a matter of when not if.

100%

Is it not here with the Champions League ??

Financially no. If some of the money that was reported to be on offer for a super league is to be believed then can UEFA match it?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 06, 2023, 06:52:52 PM
Arsenal sold out.

Shows what a load of NONSENSE the made-up waiting list is.

I am FURIOUS.

Oh, hang on.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: IFWaters on February 06, 2023, 09:25:18 PM
Do what they did to Rangers and put them in the National League and made to play under an appropriate salary cap.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 06, 2023, 09:27:35 PM
Do what they did to Rangers and put them in the National League and made to play under an appropriate salary cap.

And make Steven Gerrard the manager.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john2710 on February 06, 2023, 10:18:38 PM
They'll get a very stern letter from the PL & a warning not to do it again.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aldridgeboy on February 06, 2023, 10:41:40 PM
Do what they did to Rangers and put them in the National League and made to play under an appropriate salary cap.

And make Steven Gerrard the manager.

They need punishing, but come on, thats just way too far :)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 06, 2023, 10:59:43 PM
Sorry to link that rag but groundbreaking news here

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/aston-villa-initiate-fire-sale-26164451
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 06, 2023, 11:11:33 PM
Fuck me, what an absolute non revelation.

No wonder nobody reads that shit any more.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 06, 2023, 11:13:15 PM
A fire sale of first teamers none of whom are in the first team.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on February 07, 2023, 08:59:55 AM
20 points deducted today would only hurt them this 1 season. These ****** have been at it for years, the punishment has to surely be for the period they've been cheating into the future. Fuck it, just dissolve them.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: frank black on February 07, 2023, 09:53:37 AM
They’ll be just fine and fined.

Money talks
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on February 07, 2023, 10:05:31 AM
They’ll be just fine and fined.

Money talks

It does when you're up against UEFA, I don't think it will be that easy up against the interests of the other 19 clubs in this country.

I reckon they'll get points deduction and their titles stripped, they won't get relegated though which they should.

Rememeber this is the club that has taken our best player 4 times in this period, all through fucking cheating.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 07, 2023, 10:13:03 AM
They’ll be just fine and fined.

Money talks
Because they have pissed off so many big clubs I am not sure that it will be that straight forward.
They are going to have to be perceived to taking action, if not they will lose control of the other clubs.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 07, 2023, 10:15:04 AM
They’ll be just fine and fined.

Money talks

It does when you're up against UEFA, I don't think it will be that easy up against the interests of the other 19 clubs in this country.

I reckon they'll get points deduction and their titles stripped, they won't get relegated though which they should.

Rememeber this is the club that has taken our best player 4 times in this period, all through fucking cheating.
I agree but not sure how strong the punishment will be, if they ever get that far.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 07, 2023, 10:17:52 AM
Relegate them to League 2. It would give everybody else a respite from their tippy tappy shit, and provide a much needed boost for the three EFL leagues as they work their way back up.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 07, 2023, 10:19:17 AM
It’d be nice to see a substantive punishment, but there won’t be.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on February 07, 2023, 10:20:08 AM
They’ll be just fine and fined.

Money talks

It does when you're up against UEFA, I don't think it will be that easy up against the interests of the other 19 clubs in this country.

I reckon they'll get points deduction and their titles stripped, they won't get relegated though which they should.

Rememeber this is the club that has taken our best player 4 times in this period, all through fucking cheating.

And that's it, in a nutshell.

We'd have been so much better off if we'd kept those players; perhaps never been relegated etc. Barry, Milner, Delph and Grealish. That's quite a set of midfielders.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on February 07, 2023, 10:28:25 AM
And it's the only reason they got them, there wouldn't have been any circumstances that would've have occurred naturally that would've have led to our best players moving to that bunch of sky blue rags.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on February 07, 2023, 10:40:29 AM
And it's the only reason they got them, there wouldn't have been any circumstances that would've have occurred naturally that would've have led to our best players moving to that bunch of sky blue rags.

Absolutely. It completely and utterly stinks. You do wonder what pressure will come from the other clubs. Or, of course, they are all at it to some degree and nobody will want to stick their heads above the parapet.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on February 07, 2023, 10:51:05 AM
Seems possible that this will be the impetus for the so-called Super League to be established?
Its coming , just a matter of when not if.

100%
Nah, already come.

You get €100m prize money for winning Serie A. Norwich, last season, got £98m for finishing bottom of the Premier League.

You get €160m for winning La Liga, which is roughly in line with what you get for winning the Premier League. However, you only have to get down to 4th place, who won €85m prize money to find a club that earned less than Norwich. Barcelona’s prize money for finishing 3rd was roughly in line with what Leeds got for finishing 16th.

If you win the Champions League, including winning every single game you play from the group stage onwards, you get €85m. So winning the Bundesliga or Ligue 1 *and*  win the Champions League (winning every single game) puts you on a par with 6th place in the Premier League. And that’s not including whatever the Premier League side win by playing in Europe. Given all the top 4 get to the group stage automatically now, there’s literally only 5 teams in the world that can compete financially with the team that finishes 4th - and 3 of them are the sides above them in the Premier League (the others will be the top 2 in Spain).

Addendum: more to the point, though, is that even with us finishing 14th, we can still afford to outspend (based on prize money) every Bundlesliga club almost regardless of what they do in Europe; every Serie A club except maybe Juventus if they get to the quarter final of the Champions League; every team in Spain except Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, Barcelona, and maybe Sevilla if they get to the Champions League final. So there’s like 5 clubs in the world who can compete with a lower mid table Premier League side financially.

The Premier League *is* the European Super League,
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on February 07, 2023, 10:56:40 AM
In rugby union Sarries got hit for similar prolonged breaches of the financial regulations in the league but their fines and heavy points deduction didn't do enough and they went straight back to the top of the league after a short break. That therefore has to be the minimum if FFP is going to remain relevant. Anything less than relegation is a fudge and would be the definitive proof that FFP is about maintaining the status quo and nothing to do with fairplay. Even relegation isn't really enough, clubs would still be willing to risk creating long-term structural advantages for themselves if financial doping just meant you might have to spend a year breaking records in the championship before getting back to distorting the league.

For me the real minimum punishment, if FFP is to survive coming out the other side of this, is - relegation to the championship (the Premier League can't force them any lower), heavy points deduction agreed with the EFL for the next season (I mean something like 40-50 points, make promotion impossible and relegation a very real risk), transfer embargo so all incoming signings have to be approved by an administrator for a number of years and a massive fine (in the tens or even hundreds of millions range, if the pricks can pay £100m for a player they don't need then they can pay a fine of the same sort of size).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on February 07, 2023, 11:06:19 AM
I don't know if it's been mentioned here, but the other thing Man City may have to face are issues concerning taxes paid.  For example, if the allegation that Mancini was paid two salaries, one "official" and the other under the table, is true then I'm sure HMRC would like to get involved.

On top of that there are other issues at play?  If we go back to Randy Lerner (and other owners who have taken a huge financial hit during the period of time in question), I genuinely wonder if they all have a legal case to reclaim lost finances due to Man City's cheating?  Going a bit further, do other clubs' match-paying fans have a legal case to build against Man City?  All those Villa fans who went to Wembley to see the team lose to a bunch of (alleged) crooks - do they have the right to be compensated in some way if Man City are found guilty?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on February 07, 2023, 11:07:36 AM
I don't know if it's been mentioned here, but the other thing Man City may have to face are issues concerning taxes paid.  For example, if the allegation that Mancini was paid two salaries, one "official" and the other under the table, is true then I'm sure HMRC would like to get involved.

On top of that there are other issues at play?  If we go back to Randy Lerner (and other owners who have taken a huge financial hit during the period of time in question), I genuinely wonder if they all have a legal case to reclaim lost finances due to Man City's cheating?  Going a bit further, do other clubs' match-paying fans have a legal case to build against Man City?  All those Villa fans who went to Wembley to see the team lose to a bunch of (alleged) crooks - do they have the right to be compensated in some way if Man City are found guilty?

If we were in the USA, they'd be suing everyone for everything!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on February 07, 2023, 11:11:10 AM
Ha, ha! True.

That's just it though - I genuinely wonder if the likes of Lerner and Ellis Short are taking a very close interest in all this.  Americans being Americans, I wouldn't be surprised if they are scoping it all out.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ROBBO on February 07, 2023, 11:24:38 AM
Surely Chelsea will be worried, I hope they really bring the hammer down on all the cheating bastards, except Villa of course who always play by the rules.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on February 07, 2023, 11:27:49 AM
Surely Chelsea will be worried, I hope they really bring the hammer down on all the cheating bastards, except Villa of course who always play by the rules.

Didnt we sell Villa Park to help with our figures  :(
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 07, 2023, 11:32:09 AM
Surely Chelsea will be worried, I hope they really bring the hammer down on all the cheating bastards, except Villa of course who always play by the rules.

Didnt we sell Villa Park to help with our figures  :(
Yes, but as long as the buyers paid close to approximate market value then its OK.
This stuff is on another level altogether.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: DB on February 07, 2023, 02:50:57 PM
Fraudiola said last year he would be gone the next day if he had been lied to.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on February 07, 2023, 03:15:44 PM
They’ll be just fine and fined.

Money talks

It does when you're up against UEFA, I don't think it will be that easy up against the interests of the other 19 clubs in this country.

I reckon they'll get points deduction and their titles stripped, they won't get relegated though which they should.

Rememeber this is the club that has taken our best player 4 times in this period, all through fucking cheating.

And that's it, in a nutshell.

We'd have been so much better off if we'd kept those players; perhaps never been relegated etc. Barry, Milner, Delph and Grealish. That's quite a set of midfielders.

Each one of them was the current team captain too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on February 07, 2023, 03:26:18 PM
Fraudiola said last year he would be gone the next day if he had been lied to.

Would I lie to you, baby?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dave P on February 07, 2023, 03:53:00 PM
Surely Chelsea will be worried, I hope they really bring the hammer down on all the cheating bastards, except Villa of course who always play by the rules.

Didnt we sell Villa Park to help with our figures  :(
Yes, but as long as the buyers paid close to approximate market value then its OK.
This stuff is on another level altogether.

Absolutely correct.  The sale of the ground (or any other asset) to bring quick money in is not forbidden as long as it's market value for land etc.  The issue is if you go further down the swanny and can't buy it back.  We are fortunate that the club did buy VP back.

The Man City / Etihad numberwang is off the chart.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on February 07, 2023, 04:00:13 PM
I don't know if it's been mentioned here, but the other thing Man City may have to face are issues concerning taxes paid.  For example, if the allegation that Mancini was paid two salaries, one "official" and the other under the table, is true then I'm sure HMRC would like to get involved.

On top of that there are other issues at play?  If we go back to Randy Lerner (and other owners who have taken a huge financial hit during the period of time in question), I genuinely wonder if they all have a legal case to reclaim lost finances due to Man City's cheating?  Going a bit further, do other clubs' match-paying fans have a legal case to build against Man City?  All those Villa fans who went to Wembley to see the team lose to a bunch of (alleged) crooks - do they have the right to be compensated in some way if Man City are found guilty?

If we were in the USA, they'd be shooting everyone for everything!

Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villadelph on February 07, 2023, 04:08:00 PM
I don't know if it's been mentioned here, but the other thing Man City may have to face are issues concerning taxes paid.  For example, if the allegation that Mancini was paid two salaries, one "official" and the other under the table, is true then I'm sure HMRC would like to get involved.

On top of that there are other issues at play?  If we go back to Randy Lerner (and other owners who have taken a huge financial hit during the period of time in question), I genuinely wonder if they all have a legal case to reclaim lost finances due to Man City's cheating?  Going a bit further, do other clubs' match-paying fans have a legal case to build against Man City?  All those Villa fans who went to Wembley to see the team lose to a bunch of (alleged) crooks - do they have the right to be compensated in some way if Man City are found guilty?

If we were in the USA, they'd be shooting everyone for everything!

Fixed that for you.

Not funny, at all.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 07, 2023, 04:17:24 PM
Don't Man City have the most expensive naming rights ever on their stadium?

Almost 70m a year. As if.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on February 07, 2023, 04:30:04 PM
Don't Man City have the most expensive naming rights ever on their stadium?

Almost 70m a year. As if.

It's worth it though so everyone can say 'emptyhad'
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on February 07, 2023, 04:54:24 PM
Fraudiola said last year he would be gone the next day if he had been lied to.

I'm sure he'll leave if he can't spend 10 times the amount of his nearest rival
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on February 07, 2023, 04:58:14 PM
Fraudiola said last year he would be gone the next day if he had been lied to.

I'm sure he'll leave if he can't spend 10 times the amount of his nearest rival

Is there not any kind of professional desire in the man to go and prove himself at a club with lesser resources?

It's like being the best boxer in the world because you're the only one allowed to fight with lead weights sown into your gloves
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Martin Carruthers on February 07, 2023, 04:59:37 PM
Fraudiola said last year he would be gone the next day if he had been lied to.

I'm sure he'll leave if he can't spend 10 times the amount of his nearest rival

Is there not any kind of professional desire in the man to go and prove himself at a club with lesser resources?

It's like being the best boxer in the world because you're the only one allowed to fight with lead weights sown into your gloves

I've always thought that, if I was considered the best manager in the world I'd want to go and try to win the league with St. Mirren or something.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Monty on February 07, 2023, 05:12:43 PM
Fraudiola said last year he would be gone the next day if he had been lied to.

I'm sure he'll leave if he can't spend 10 times the amount of his nearest rival

Is there not any kind of professional desire in the man to go and prove himself at a club with lesser resources?

It's like being the best boxer in the world because you're the only one allowed to fight with lead weights sown into your gloves

I've come to the conclusion that, for all that he's a 'winner' etc, he doesn't really like competition but domination. Hence why he only manages the richest club in any given country. Hence his style, too, with its kind of dystopian smooth smothering football despotism.

This is unlike Klopp who, for all his being incredibly annoying with his unsettling teeth, likes a project, and likes an on-pitch scrap too. Simeone also. Wankers both, but wankers who are up for a good honest ding-dong.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on February 07, 2023, 05:23:21 PM
Fraudiola said last year he would be gone the next day if he had been lied to.

I'm sure he'll leave if he can't spend 10 times the amount of his nearest rival

Is there not any kind of professional desire in the man to go and prove himself at a club with lesser resources?

It's like being the best boxer in the world because you're the only one allowed to fight with lead weights sown into your gloves

I've come to the conclusion that, for all that he's a 'winner' etc, he doesn't really like competition but domination. Hence why he only manages the richest club in any given country. Hence his style, too, with its kind of dystopian smooth smothering football despotism.

This is unlike Klopp who, for all his being incredibly annoying with his unsettling teeth, likes a project, and likes an on-pitch scrap too. Simeone also. Wankers both, but wankers who are up for a good honest ding-dong.

I make your right. Bingo has his faults, is a bit passive aggressive (or 'post nazi-German' as it's otherwise known) but I actually think he's a decent bloke and I enjoy watching his teams at their best.

Guardiola is like some obsessive technocrat planning an entire economy without the slightest regard for those living in it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 07, 2023, 05:32:14 PM
Fraudiola said last year he would be gone the next day if he had been lied to.

I'm sure he'll leave if he can't spend 10 times the amount of his nearest rival

Is there not any kind of professional desire in the man to go and prove himself at a club with lesser resources?

It's like being the best boxer in the world because you're the only one allowed to fight with lead weights sown into your gloves

I've come to the conclusion that, for all that he's a 'winner' etc, he doesn't really like competition but domination. Hence why he only manages the richest club in any given country. Hence his style, too, with its kind of dystopian smooth smothering football despotism.

This is unlike Klopp who, for all his being incredibly annoying with his unsettling teeth, likes a project, and likes an on-pitch scrap too. Simeone also. Wankers both, but wankers who are up for a good honest ding-dong.

I agree entirely with the spirit of this post, except I'm not sure that much honesty is involved when Simeone has a ding-dong! He'd take the fillings from his grandmother's teeth if it gave him an advantage.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Monty on February 07, 2023, 06:22:01 PM
According to his own terms of engagement, that's 'honest'. What I mean to say though is that he actually enjoys the struggle of it all.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on February 07, 2023, 06:34:18 PM
Fraudiola said last year he would be gone the next day if he had been lied to.

I'm sure he'll leave if he can't spend 10 times the amount of his nearest rival

Is there not any kind of professional desire in the man to go and prove himself at a club with lesser resources?

It's like being the best boxer in the world because you're the only one allowed to fight with lead weights sown into your gloves

I've come to the conclusion that, for all that he's a 'winner' etc, he doesn't really like competition but domination. Hence why he only manages the richest club in any given country. Hence his style, too, with its kind of dystopian smooth smothering football despotism.

This is unlike Klopp who, for all his being incredibly annoying with his unsettling teeth, likes a project, and likes an on-pitch scrap too. Simeone also. Wankers both, but wankers who are up for a good honest ding-dong.

I agree entirely with the spirit of this post, except I'm not sure that much honesty is involved when Simeone has a ding-dong! He'd take the fillings from his grandmother's teeth if it gave him an advantage.

Yeah, smothering is right. I think most managers like a duel, the sport, the engagement with an opponent. Guardiola wants his servants to put a clear plastic bag over his opponents' heads, whilst they are already tied down, and watch them slowly asphyxiate.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rigadon on February 07, 2023, 06:43:24 PM
Perfectly articulated Monty. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: DB on February 07, 2023, 06:44:46 PM
Fraudiola said last year he would be gone the next day if he had been lied to.

I'm sure he'll leave if he can't spend 10 times the amount of his nearest rival

Is there not any kind of professional desire in the man to go and prove himself at a club with lesser resources?

It's like being the best boxer in the world because you're the only one allowed to fight with lead weights sown into your gloves

I've come to the conclusion that, for all that he's a 'winner' etc, he doesn't really like competition but domination. Hence why he only manages the richest club in any given country. Hence his style, too, with its kind of dystopian smooth smothering football despotism.

This is unlike Klopp who, for all his being incredibly annoying with his unsettling teeth, likes a project, and likes an on-pitch scrap too. Simeone also. Wankers both, but wankers who are up for a good honest ding-dong.

I agree entirely with the spirit of this post, except I'm not sure that much honesty is involved when Simeone has a ding-dong! He'd take the fillings from his grandmother's teeth if it gave him an advantage.

Yeah, smothering is right. I think most managers like a duel, the sport, the engagement with an opponent. Guardiola wants his servants to put a clear plastic bag over his opponents' heads, whilst they are already tied down, and watch them slowly asphyxiate.

Nicely put….and after spending a fortune to get to that point
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Baldy on February 21, 2023, 10:12:17 AM
If I was sitting in an auction house for 'prized assets' and suddenly a number of Qatari and Saudi Arabian elite arrived on the scene, it would give me pause for thought!!

When it comes to the transfer market, I wonder if our owners are beginning to get concerned if they will not now get 'value for their buck'?

Perhaps FFP or the Man City's charges may come to our rescue? Perhaps, pigs may fly?

Sorry to p*ss on anybody's parade, but this has been nagging me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on February 21, 2023, 11:44:47 AM
If I was sitting in an auction house for 'prized assets' and suddenly a number of Qatari and Saudi Arabian elite arrived on the scene, it would give me pause for thought!!

When it comes to the transfer market, I wonder if our owners are beginning to get concerned if they will not now get 'value for their buck'?

Perhaps FFP or the Man City's charges may come to our rescue? Perhaps, pigs may fly?

Sorry to p*ss on anybody's parade, but this has been nagging me.

Why do we need "rescuing"? I don't think we have anything to worry about to be honest. When our owners bought into football they would have been more than aware of Qataris, Saudis etc all being on the lookout for clubs too.  The fact that V Sports went out and bought a club in Portugal right after the Qataris bought a club from the same league suggests they are not too worried by it all.  The other thing to remember is that *if* our owners feel they can't compete with oil money, there is nothing to stop them seeking other wealthy investors to buy into Villa - and that's assuming V Sports doesn't already have other wealthy private investors backing it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Baldy on February 21, 2023, 12:23:58 PM
If I was sitting in an auction house for 'prized assets' and suddenly a number of Qatari and Saudi Arabian elite arrived on the scene, it would give me pause for thought!!

When it comes to the transfer market, I wonder if our owners are beginning to get concerned if they will not now get 'value for their buck'?

Perhaps FFP or the Man City's charges may come to our rescue? Perhaps, pigs may fly?

Sorry to p*ss on anybody's parade, but this has been nagging me.

Why do we need "rescuing"? I don't think we have anything to worry about to be honest. When our owners bought into football they would have been more than aware of Qataris, Saudis etc all being on the lookout for clubs too.  The fact that V Sports went out and bought a club in Portugal right after the Qataris bought a club from the same league suggests they are not too worried by it all.  The other thing to remember is that *if* our owners feel they can't compete with oil money, there is nothing to stop them seeking other wealthy investors to buy into Villa - and that's assuming V Sports doesn't already have other wealthy private investors backing it.

Cheers, those points are re-assuring.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on February 21, 2023, 01:01:24 PM
The other thing to consider, Baldy, is that Sawiris and Edens operate and move in the world of "oil money'.  For example, Fertiglobe is owned jointly by OCI (headed by Sawiris) and ADNOC (the Adu Dhabi National Oil Company).  Our owners are part of that world and will have significant business links with such people.  I'm confident we have people at the top who have their eyes and ears open, fully aware of the funding requirements and strategies required to make Villa grow into a successful club again.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 21, 2023, 01:04:38 PM
The other thing to consider, Baldy, is that Sawiris and Edens operate and move in the world of "oil money'.  For example, Fertiglobe is owned jointly by OCI (headed by Sawiris) and ADNOC (the Adu Dhabi National Oil Company).  Our owners are part of that world and will have significant business links with such people.  I'm confident we have people at the top who have their eyes and ears open, fully aware of the funding requirements and strategies required to make Villa grow into a successful club again.

There's precious little sign of it though. Our net spend is never going to be enough to challenge the top half consistently, and the only tangible fruit from the youth academy has been the £20m fee for Chukwuemeka. They could have shown us their intentions this January, but didn't.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on February 21, 2023, 01:13:41 PM
The other thing to consider, Baldy, is that Sawiris and Edens operate and move in the world of "oil money'.  For example, Fertiglobe is owned jointly by OCI (headed by Sawiris) and ADNOC (the Adu Dhabi National Oil Company).  Our owners are part of that world and will have significant business links with such people.  I'm confident we have people at the top who have their eyes and ears open, fully aware of the funding requirements and strategies required to make Villa grow into a successful club again.

There's precious little sign of it though. Our net spend is never going to be enough to challenge the top half consistently, and the only tangible fruit from the youth academy has been the £20m fee for Chukwuemeka. They could have shown us their intentions this January, but didn't.

The small matter of £100m for the grease-monkey is tangible...

They've spent a lot of money, with a new stand coming at £100m as an example.

I'm sure we'd all like immediate success and spending but we're coming from a much lower bar than most because of our time out of the money, sorry Premier League.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Border villan on February 21, 2023, 01:14:30 PM
The other thing to consider, Baldy, is that Sawiris and Edens operate and move in the world of "oil money'.  For example, Fertiglobe is owned jointly by OCI (headed by Sawiris) and ADNOC (the Adu Dhabi National Oil Company).  Our owners are part of that world and will have significant business links with such people.  I'm confident we have people at the top who have their eyes and ears open, fully aware of the funding requirements and strategies required to make Villa grow into a successful club again.

There's precious little sign of it though. Our net spend is never going to be enough to challenge the top half consistently, and the only tangible fruit from the youth academy has been the £20m fee for Chukwuemeka. They could have shown us their intentions this January, but didn't.

Grealish came through the academy, we did quite well with his fee as I recall.

Drummond you beat me to this!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 21, 2023, 01:17:57 PM
Grealish was here well before NSWE.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on February 21, 2023, 01:18:27 PM
Yeah, we just spent it on two players who blow hot and cold and one who we've re-sold at a loss (but still seen as a good price due to zimmer-frame being required by same). No more £13m Dendonckers or Morenos in the summer. Three £50m+ valued better than wot we have first-teamers please.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on February 21, 2023, 01:20:12 PM
The other thing to consider, Baldy, is that Sawiris and Edens operate and move in the world of "oil money'.  For example, Fertiglobe is owned jointly by OCI (headed by Sawiris) and ADNOC (the Adu Dhabi National Oil Company).  Our owners are part of that world and will have significant business links with such people.  I'm confident we have people at the top who have their eyes and ears open, fully aware of the funding requirements and strategies required to make Villa grow into a successful club again.

There's precious little sign of it though. Our net spend is never going to be enough to challenge the top half consistently, and the only tangible fruit from the youth academy has been the £20m fee for Chukwuemeka. They could have shown us their intentions this January, but didn't.
For the youth academy, it’s still early days - we’re signing players around the 16-18 mark so you’d not necessarily see much of a financial reward straight away - but I’d keep in mind Tim Iroegbunam, Jacob Ramsey, Aaron Ramsey, Cam Archer - you’d expect to be comfortably getting £50m for those even if we sold them relatively cheaply. It wouldn’t be unthinkable for it to be closer to £100m.

Spending-wise, they backed Gerrard in the winter window quite significantly. The results post spending spree weren’t great, so it’s quite reasonable I think to hold off giving him huge wedges of cash in the summer. Who knows, maybe NSWE felt Gerrard was an interim appointment to begin with - they were still thinking about how to proceed after the Smith-Grealish era and Gerrard was a manager who they could afford to hire and fire, with the bonus that if things did go well we’d keep him.

I think we’ll know more with the first 2 windows of the Emery era. We didn’t spend much in January, which very much puts the emphasis summer. Spend big then and it looks very much like the above is right - they didn’t want to back Gerrard & Emery isn’t willing to accept 3rd or 4th choice targets.

Don’t spend big and it looks more like what you’re saying - that whatever their model is doesn’t involve them shelling out big sums of money from their own pockets.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on February 21, 2023, 01:27:36 PM
Grealish was here well before NSWE.

Wasn't chucky too?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on February 21, 2023, 01:28:49 PM
Grealish was here well before NSWE.

The other point then, would be that the youth set up can't really have had time to reap the rewards given they haven't been around that long.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on February 21, 2023, 01:36:51 PM
Yeah, we just spent it on two players who blow hot and cold and one who we've re-sold at a loss (but still seen as a good price due to zimmer-frame being required by same). No more £13m Dendonckers or Morenos in the summer. Three £50m+ valued better than wot we have first-teamers please.

It doesn't really matter how much they cost though as long as they are better than what we have.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on February 21, 2023, 01:46:49 PM
Agreed but we're more than likely going to have to spend big for that to be case.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on February 21, 2023, 01:50:36 PM
Agreed but we're more than likely going to have to spend big for that to be case.

Maybe. I'm not sure why you mentioned Moreno in your original post though. He's only been here five minutes.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 21, 2023, 01:51:41 PM
Grealish was here well before NSWE.

The other point then, would be that the youth set up can't really have had time to reap the rewards given they haven't been around that long.

Five years should be long enough to start to see something. The overall point thgough is that there's very little in the way of evidence of them having the ambition to get us top 6. It's looking increasingly likely that even top half is asking too much.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on February 21, 2023, 02:14:49 PM
The other thing to consider, Baldy, is that Sawiris and Edens operate and move in the world of "oil money'.  For example, Fertiglobe is owned jointly by OCI (headed by Sawiris) and ADNOC (the Adu Dhabi National Oil Company).  Our owners are part of that world and will have significant business links with such people.  I'm confident we have people at the top who have their eyes and ears open, fully aware of the funding requirements and strategies required to make Villa grow into a successful club again.

There's precious little sign of it though. Our net spend is never going to be enough to challenge the top half consistently, and the only tangible fruit from the youth academy has been the £20m fee for Chukwuemeka. They could have shown us their intentions this January, but didn't.

Fair points but I reckon appointing a manager like Unai Emery is definitely a sign of the stated ambition.  The lack of January transfer activity can be seen in all sorts of ways - I suppose those with a glass half full would view it as a sign of the owners not being panicked and having a firm strategy, whilst others might view it as the club gambling or showing a lack of ambition.  I guess we'll have a better overall understanding of the (lack of) January activity come season's end.   
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 21, 2023, 02:20:52 PM
We're already seeing it though. A month ago Unai was saying "I'm so, so happy with the squad" and three drubbings later it's "they're not playing how I tell them." Most of them probably never will, because they can't.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Bully2345 on February 21, 2023, 02:26:22 PM
We're already seeing it though. A month ago Unai was saying "I'm so, so happy with the squad" and three drubbings later it's "they're not playing how I tell them." Most of them probably never will, because they can't.

That's called management. Sometimes you build them up. Sometimes you give them home truths. They possibly walked into the changing room like me thinking "we did alright there" and he's letting them know expectations have to be higher. He's watching for reactions and who gives the right one.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 21, 2023, 02:29:40 PM
We're already seeing it though. A month ago Unai was saying "I'm so, so happy with the squad" and three drubbings later it's "they're not playing how I tell them." Most of them probably never will, because they can't.

That's called management. Sometimes you build them up. Sometimes you give them home truths. They possibly walked into the changing room like me thinking "we did alright there" and he's letting them know expectations have to be higher. He's watching for reactions and who gives the right one.

Yeah I do think a lot of this comes down to him knowing what he should and should not say - he can't really come out and say he's not happy with the squad as he has to get a tune out of them at least till the end of the season.

I suspect he also knows it is going to require a total overhaul this summer, too, as - as Risso said - a lot of these players are never going to be good enough to play the way he wants to.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on February 21, 2023, 02:33:05 PM
Grealish was here well before NSWE.

The other point then, would be that the youth set up can't really have had time to reap the rewards given they haven't been around that long.

Five years should be long enough to start to see something. The overall point thgough is that there's very little in the way of evidence of them having the ambition to get us top 6. It's looking increasingly likely that even top half is asking too much.

If we look at it holistically, I think they've achieved a fair bit.  They took over a club on the verge of insolvency and in the space of five years have got us back up into the top flight, a major final, redeveloped the training ground, developed a new inner-city academy and we're on the verge of redeveloping Villa Park - if someone had told me five years ago that all this was in the pipeline I would have been beyond delighted, given the situation we were in.

I get your frustration, though, when we see Newcastle, Fulham, Brentford and Brighton all fly up the league ahead of us and I have no answers as to why it's taking us that little bit longer to get there.  We've made some duff calls (Gerrard) along the way, and that hasn't helped.  The on-pitch stuff is the most crucial part of the plan and I just hope we get it right.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on February 21, 2023, 03:03:55 PM
Agreed but we're more than likely going to have to spend big for that to be case.

Maybe. I'm not sure why you mentioned Moreno in your original post though. He's only been here five minutes.

Yes but he'll be 30 by the start of next season and it seems at this stage of his career that his profile is clear - decent with the ball and going forward but iffy defensively and likely to come off worse in physical 50/50s. Small upgrade on Digne at best.

I'd rather we had utilised the £40m approx spent on both of them and just got one more-rounded full-back who can do both the defensive and offensive stuff.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smithy on February 21, 2023, 03:18:00 PM
Agreed but we're more than likely going to have to spend big for that to be case.

Maybe. I'm not sure why you mentioned Moreno in your original post though. He's only been here five minutes.

Yes but he'll be 30 by the start of next season and it seems at this stage of his career that his profile is clear - decent with the ball and going forward but iffy defensively and likely to come off worse in physical 50/50s. Small upgrade on Digne at best.

I'd rather we had utilised the £40m approx spent on both of them and just got one more-rounded full-back who can do both the defensive and offensive stuff.

As would I. But what if they weren't available, or didn't want to come, do we just live with Matt Targett until one becomes available and wants to join us? Or do we use that time to buy incrementally better players for each position without the "big leap" in quality we all want?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on February 21, 2023, 03:26:14 PM
I would have lived with Matt Targett and sacrificed his defensive abilities to allow the winger/wide-midfielder ahead of him more freedom (although he did pop-up with a couple of goals for us and had a good understanding with Grealish) but I take your point.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 21, 2023, 07:19:46 PM
I'm not sure about Targett tbh.

He's solid at best - it didn't take long for him to lose his place at Newcastle - to a centre back - after leaving here.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on February 21, 2023, 07:31:05 PM
I'm not sure about Targett tbh.

He's solid at best - it didn't take long for him to lose his place at Newcastle - to a centre back - after leaving here.
Same boat. Put aside his time at Villa, the rest of his Premier League career suggests he's a backup player at this level.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dante Lavelli on February 21, 2023, 08:49:31 PM
Yeah but we already owned target, since then we’ve spent about £35m and doubled the wages and it hasn’t moved us forward much, if at all.  The changing of managers is clearly a big part of that but, as a club, it is still pretty careless.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on February 21, 2023, 09:01:57 PM
If we'd just not bought Digne and upgraded to Moreno at that price we'd have done smart business.

Signing Digne was the problem, largely because he's shit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on February 22, 2023, 04:05:02 PM
Ashley Preece reckons we’re in talks to sign the Real Betis sporting director, but so are Barcelona.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on February 22, 2023, 04:14:51 PM
If we'd just not bought Digne and upgraded to Moreno at that price we'd have done smart business.

Signing Digne was the problem, largely because he's shit.
This.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villadelph on February 22, 2023, 04:17:41 PM
Ashley Preece reckons we’re in talks to sign the Real Betis sporting director, but so are Barcelona.

Does that push Lange out the door?

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on February 22, 2023, 05:38:19 PM
Ashley Preece reckons we’re in talks to sign the Real Betis sporting director, but so are Barcelona.

Well who would you choose? Better colours just about and we did them in '83.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on February 22, 2023, 06:34:05 PM
Ashley Preece reckons we’re in talks to sign the Real Betis sporting director, but so are Barcelona.

Does that push Lange out the door?

Not sure.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 22, 2023, 07:57:38 PM
Ashley Preece reckons we’re in talks to sign the Real Betis sporting director, but so are Barcelona.

Well who would you choose? Better colours just about and we did them in '83.

I’d be worried about taking a job there and then being strong armed into taking a wage cut within about a week.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Exeter 77 on February 22, 2023, 08:01:46 PM
Ashley Preece reckons we’re in talks to sign the Real Betis sporting director, but so are Barcelona.

Does that push Lange out the door?

Not sure.
I think Emery wants to appoint someone to sit above Lange in the hierarchy.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 22, 2023, 08:10:00 PM
Ashley Preece reckons we’re in talks to sign the Real Betis sporting director, but so are Barcelona.

Does that push Lange out the door?

Not sure.
I think Emery wants to appoint someone to sit above Lange in the hierarchy.

Is it really healthy for an organisation if a manager gets to appoint the person to work above them?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Exeter 77 on February 22, 2023, 08:14:45 PM
Ashley Preece reckons we’re in talks to sign the Real Betis sporting director, but so are Barcelona.

Does that push Lange out the door?

Not sure.
I think Emery wants to appoint someone to sit above Lange in the hierarchy.

Is it really healthy for an organisation if a manager gets to appoint the person to work above them?
Probably not and I phrased that poorly. I read somewhere that Emery prefers a structure which has someone sit above the position currently occupied by Lange. Whether he has a say on who that may be is probably a question for NSWE.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on February 22, 2023, 09:05:39 PM
Ashley Preece reckons we’re in talks to sign the Real Betis sporting director, but so are Barcelona.

Does that push Lange out the door?

Not sure.
I think Emery wants to appoint someone to sit above Lange in the hierarchy.

Is it really healthy for an organisation if a manager gets to appoint the person to work above them?
Probably not and I phrased that poorly. I read somewhere that Emery prefers a structure which has someone sit above the position currently occupied by Lange. Whether he has a say on who that may be is probably a question for NSWE.

If it means Purslow having less to do with the football side of the club I'm all for it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on March 31, 2023, 09:00:15 AM
Another one of those regular £20 million share issues yesterday.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on March 31, 2023, 09:38:43 AM
Another one of those regular £20 million share issues yesterday.

I assume this is the usual debt for equity swap to keep us the right side of P&S rules.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 31, 2023, 10:12:06 AM
Where is the limit with this sort of money injection, I wonder?

How do we do it so often (and I am glad they did, and I trust they know what they'd doing in terms of the rules) but remain the right side of FFP?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sid1964 on March 31, 2023, 10:15:15 AM
I suppose the limit is when they decide not to chuck another £20 million + at the club every few months

We are so lucky to have them as owners, hopefully they will remain our owners for a long time.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 31, 2023, 10:15:42 AM
Well, that is how it seems yes, but I am not talking about their willingness to spend the money. That's great.

I just don't get how we manage to swerve FFP problems.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on March 31, 2023, 10:55:54 AM
This isn't anything to do with FFP.  That's just about profit and loss really.  There's no reason an owner can't put money into the club, but it won't count as income on the P&L for FFP purposes.  (I think)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on March 31, 2023, 11:07:46 AM
Sticking money into the club doesn't directly affect FFP, but you need to look at the reasons why it's needed. If the club is continually making losses, then obviously it's going to need injections of cash from the owners to pay its way. If those losses are higher than the amount that the Premier League says you're allowed, then you could be in bother. On the other hand, you can be making a profit and still need cash at different times. If you sell a player like Jack Grealish for £100m, but the payments are staggered over 3 years, then you might need cash to tide you over if your outgoings are higher than your incoming money at a certain period of time.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on March 31, 2023, 11:23:53 AM
I guess they have to start putting in the money for the redevelopment of the North Stand soon ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on March 31, 2023, 12:19:42 PM
I guess they have to start putting in the money for the redevelopment of the North Stand soon ?
The inner city training centre as well.

I thought we were in a reasonably sustainable position from a FFP perspective since joe left, no?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on April 03, 2023, 03:58:20 PM
ZED FC partnership announced (https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2023/april/03/aston-villa-confirm-zed-fc-partnership/).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on April 03, 2023, 04:01:02 PM
Who's zed?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on April 03, 2023, 04:02:20 PM
Who's zed?

Egyptian Club
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on April 03, 2023, 04:07:58 PM
Who's zed?

Zed's dead, Baby.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 03, 2023, 04:23:56 PM
Who's zed?

A second division club run by Nassef's nephew, Onsi Sawiris. Voted Best Youth Academy in Africa in 2021. They're the new kids on the block.

**Runs off**
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 04, 2023, 06:30:31 AM
This isn't anything to do with FFP.  That's just about profit and loss really.  There's no reason an owner can't put money into the club, but it won't count as income on the P&L for FFP purposes.  (I think)
Thats right FFP is a P&L measurement a cap on accumulated losses.
Investment is a Balance Sheet transaction.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villafirst on April 04, 2023, 07:28:37 AM
How will Chelsea balance their books after reportedly spending over £500m on players in 2022/23? They have so many players, admittedly several loaned out. Heaven knows what their wage bill must be! I'd imagine they will have to sell a lot of players in the close season to balance the books. Unless they win the Champions League, they won't qualify for it next season given their current League position so will lose a lot of income.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 04, 2023, 09:26:10 AM
How will Chelsea balance their books after reportedly spending over £500m on players in 2022/23? They have so many players, admittedly several loaned out. Heaven knows what their wage bill must be! I'd imagine they will have to sell a lot of players in the close season to balance the books. Unless they win the Champions League, they won't qualify for it next season given their current League position so will lose a lot of income.
Its hard to understand, they have signed players on long term contracts to extend the amortisation period, they have some gains to bring forward from the embargo years and then the Covid losses. But with a huge wage Bill having spent 500 million this year and as you say little chance of CL.
Or maybe they have seen what Citeh have done and thought we will chance it aswell.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on April 04, 2023, 06:36:12 PM
Who's zed?

Zed's dead, Baby.
They got medieval on his ass
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 04, 2023, 07:09:20 PM
Who's zed?

A second division club run by Nassef's nephew, Onsi Sawiris. Voted Best Youth Academy in Africa in 2021. They're the new kids on the block.

**Runs off**

Wes refers to them as ZEE FC.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villafirst on April 12, 2023, 06:20:57 PM
Just as an aside to our great owners, it's being reported this evening that BCFC is in discussion with another buyer to takeover the club......I wonder if this involves Poundland?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on April 12, 2023, 07:09:31 PM
I wouldn't wish Xia on them.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: lovejoy on April 13, 2023, 10:17:43 AM
Xia was just a front man.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on April 13, 2023, 10:24:11 AM
Xia was just a front man.

See also Moshiri at Everton
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 13, 2023, 10:59:23 AM
Xia was just a front man.

See also Moshiri at Everton
Al fayed
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on May 11, 2023, 06:32:29 PM
Could be a hiccup for our owners. Is an 'expansion fee' paid by the league to the new club or the other way around?

https://www.transfermarkt.com/san-diego-leads-mls-expansion-bid-what-will-happen-to-las-vegas-/view/news/421423

Quote
San Diego leads MLS expansion bid - What will happen to Las Vegas?

Major League Soccer is set to announce its 30th team in mid-May, and according to various media reports, the league is set to expand to San Diego ahead of Las Vegas. ESPN reported in late April that San Diego was now carrying the momentum to become the next MLS expansion franchise. According to the report by ESPN, San Diego was considered "the leader in the clubhouse", and if a deal goes through, the new club could start playing in 2025.

The San Diego Union-Tribune has taken it one step further in its report. The newspaper reported this week that an investment group led by an Egyptian billionaire and the local Sycuan tribe were ready to present their expansion bid to the MLS board. The investors also had agreed to an expansion fee of $500 million, significantly more than the €325m paid by Charlotte FC and the €200m paid by St. Louis CITY SC.

The league sees the bid as the more attractive because, unlike Vegas, San Diego has a stadium ready. Owned by San Diego State University, Snapdragon Stadium is a ready-made MLS facility. “We’ve been having very good discussions,” San Diego State Athletic Director John David Wicker said to the San Diego Union-Tribune when asked about an MLS club moving to the stadium. “Based on the soccer we’re having this summer, it shows that this venue is truly built for great soccer, and getting MLS is the last real piece of the puzzle.”

The facility is already home to the NWSL team San Diego Wave FC, and Transfermarkt understands that a big European side might play a friendly at the stadium this summer. “We are excited to get to the finish line,” Wicker said. Meanwhile, Egyptian investor Mohamed Mansour of the Mansour Group also expressed his optimism.  “We continue to push forward with confidence, and we are working together to make the deal reality,” Mansour and Sycuan Tribal Chairman Cody Martinez said in a joint statement.

There are still some question marks regarding San Diego. First, the stadium might require some upgrades. Usually, the league requires facilities to be roofed, and even though most games are now on Saturday night to comply with the new Apple TV deal, some of the stands might need to be roofed—although local reports suggest that this might not be necessary. The stadium will also need some minor upgrades to be more soccer-specific. Nonetheless, unlike Vegas, San Diego has a facility ready, and with a capacity of 35,000 seats, Snapdragon is an ideal size for MLS.

One question that remains regarding San Diego is what will happen to the USL Championship side San Diego Loyal SC? “Our plan is simple,” San Diego Loyal chairman Andrew Vassiliadis said in a statement issued regarding MLS expansion into his club’s market. “We aren’t going anywhere.” The statement also added that Vassiliadis and MLS legend Landon Donovan, who is the Executive Vice President of Soccer Operations at Loyal, remain committed to the market. In other words, at present, the USL club is not involved in expansion talks and has no interest in folding to create room for another club in the market.

The future of San Diego Loyal is just one question going forward. The other question is the future of Las Vegas. There is no doubt that MLS remains interested in what is one of the fastest-growing sports markets in North America. The National Hockey League (NHL) opened the door in 2017 when the Golden Knights became an instant success. The National Football League (NFL) has since followed when the Oakland Raiders moved to the city in 2020. The Major League Baseball side Oakland A’s now have a deal in place to build a stadium in Vegas as well and are set to move to the city in 2027.

Suddenly, MLS, which was on course to become the second or third league to move to Sin City, is finding Vegas an increasingly crowded market. Even with Allegiant Stadium hosting national team games, the lack of a soccer-specific stadium is an issue. Nonetheless, Aston Villa co-owners Wes Edens and Nassef Sawiris are interested in expanding MLS to Las Vegas and have trademarked the name Las Vegas Villains.

In other words, Vegas remains on the market, and there are several avenues to get a team there. Transfermarkt understands that at least one ownership group has investigated selling their club, moving the door for relocation. That, however, would mean that owners would miss out on a significant expansion fee. Another route, therefore, would be expanding beyond 30 teams, which would open the door for additional markets and allow for additional expansion fees for the current owners. “So, once we’ve decided we’re going to expand our league to cover the geography of the US and Canada, there is no reason to think we should not go larger, but right now, we have no plans for that, yet,” MLS commissioner Don Garber said in February. “We have a lot of big cities in this country that have no team.”
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on May 11, 2023, 07:12:04 PM
Could be a hiccup for our owners. Is an 'expansion fee' paid by the league to the new club or the other way around?

The expansion fee is paid by the new team to the league. I believe the owners missing out on the expansion fee if a relocation happens is a reference to the other team owners.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 18, 2023, 11:29:30 PM
San Diego announced as the newest MLS city/team. Not surprising with the large Hispanic population and MLS a has done really well in California. Doesn’t mean an end to the Las Vegas team as LV has already attracted NFL and NHL teams to the city. They will get an MLS eventually.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sid1964 on May 20, 2023, 07:32:52 AM
Interesting comments from our owners with regards to our summer transfers-if they are true to their word, this summer will be very exciting with the caliber of players that we sign
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on May 20, 2023, 10:09:11 AM
Interesting comments from our owners with regards to our summer transfers-if they are true to their word, this summer will be very exciting with the caliber of players that we sign
What have they said and where can we see it ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 20, 2023, 11:58:06 AM
It was in Marca

When responding to suggestions in the Spanish press of Alemany not joining due to some made up financial concerns, the translation is to the effect of

“We already have the most difficult figure to find, a world-class manager like Unai Emery. And we have a sports plan based on the style of play of the coach. We also have structure that will provide the manager with operability."

“The strength of the project is beyond doubt and will be seen during the summer."

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on May 20, 2023, 05:24:11 PM
Get the feeling they've held back on big time spending until they felt the various pieces were in place, but now feel those are now in place. Time to kick on.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on May 20, 2023, 05:27:45 PM
Get the feeling they've held back on big time spending until they felt the various pieces were in place, but now feel those are now in place. Time to kick on.

Are they likely to pursue another Alemany character in the short term?  I guess they are but won't wait to spend the money.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on May 20, 2023, 05:31:05 PM
Emery said as much, and I did see someone say that the Real Sociedad Sports Director was our first choice. You would imagine we had more than 1 or 2 people in mind, and we've probably moved onto the next one already.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: BC Villain on May 28, 2023, 10:26:11 PM
Great to see both owners there today.  Noticeable that Purslow was nowhere to be seen
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on May 28, 2023, 10:34:05 PM
Great to see both owners there today.  Noticeable that Purslow was nowhere to be seen

He was in the directors' box as usual. When Nas and Wes went down to see Emery and the players, he stayed in the box with Ian Taylor and Ahmed Elmohamady.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 28, 2023, 10:51:15 PM
Great to see both owners there today.  Noticeable that Purslow was nowhere to be seen

I don’t think he’s going anywhere and the right people were on the pitch. The owners had to have loved the atmosphere today and must be elated at just how things have panned out with Emery. I am sure he will get the support he needs, because what they saw today is just the start. Aston Villa chasing trophies in front of a packed ground and Villa Park in full voice on a European night is something else.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on May 28, 2023, 10:56:32 PM
Great to see both owners there today.  Noticeable that Purslow was nowhere to be seen

He was in the directors' box as usual. When Nas and Wes went down to see Emery and the players, he stayed in the box with Ian Taylor and Ahmed Elmohamady.

And if he had gone down he'd no doubt have been accused of muscling in on Emery's and the players' celebrations.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on May 29, 2023, 02:53:08 PM
Just been made aware that it's been almost 5 years since NSWE came in.

A big thank you to our wonderful owners for saving our club and bringing the good times back to VP.

Maybe first home game of the new season there could be a thank you banner?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on May 29, 2023, 05:05:51 PM
Potential for best owner / manager combo in our history? Even when we were great in the late 70s / early 80s, that was almost more in spite of the ownership than because of it?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: caster troy on May 29, 2023, 05:23:19 PM
If it's true Nassef Sawiris stepped in to sack Gerrard then personally brought Unai here he must be at least halfway to a statue now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on May 29, 2023, 05:36:54 PM
If it's true Nassef Sawiris stepped in to sack Gerrard then personally brought Unai here he must be at least halfway to a statue now.

Can we have one of Gerrard to throw eggs at?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 29, 2023, 07:20:57 PM
If it's true Nassef Sawiris stepped in to sack Gerrard then personally brought Unai here he must be at least halfway to a statue now.

Can we have one of Gerrard to throw eggs at?
and the teat who hired him
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 29, 2023, 07:33:30 PM
Potential for best owner / manager combo in our history? Even when we were great in the late 70s / early 80s, that was almost more in spite of the ownership than because of it?

There's no 'almost' about it. How Steptoe & his idiot son ended up running the European champions is one of the great mysteries of the modern age.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on May 29, 2023, 07:40:21 PM
£156m for finishing 7th and another £3m from West Ham for Danny Ings, owing to them stopping up.

I feel yesterday will have renewed the owners (if it was ever required) and really give them the energy to help us kick on again.

We are back.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on May 29, 2023, 07:43:35 PM
£156mill. Tidy sum.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on May 29, 2023, 07:53:30 PM
There might be a payment for ratboy winning the champions league too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Beard82 on May 29, 2023, 07:54:58 PM
£156m for finishing 7th and another £3m from West Ham for Danny Ings, owing to them stopping up.

I feel yesterday will have renewed the owners (if it was ever required) and really give them the energy to help us kick on again.

We are back.
They looked like they were loving it when they were out on the pitch.  This is what they signed up for
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on May 29, 2023, 08:26:53 PM
I reckon losing in the championship play offs to qualifying for Europe, with a global pandemic snuck in the middle, counts as a pretty good 5 year plan.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on May 29, 2023, 09:30:02 PM
We've not really spent silly money to get where we are either BTW. But that is about half down to Unai and his miraculous reign so far.

You compare to other teams in the league and what they spend, we're decent in that respect.

Going I can't wait to see what they do over the summer.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Bent Neilsens Screamer on May 29, 2023, 11:58:32 PM
There might be a payment for ratboy winning the champions league too.

Hopefully not.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 30, 2023, 12:00:17 AM
There might be a payment for ratboy winning the champions league too.

Hopefully not.

Exactly. We need Inter to start a bidding war before we cut any deals with Man City.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 30, 2023, 01:07:42 AM
There's no extra payments for Grealish. They met a buyout clause, why would Man City then add clauses to pay even more when they have no need to?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 30, 2023, 01:15:22 AM
So they can be part of a bidding war.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on May 30, 2023, 10:01:37 AM
I remember DW bemoaning a few times early in the season that coming up to 5 years of being here, how further along we really were under the current ownership.

Who'd 'a thunk that employing a genuine world-class manager for the first time in the history of our club would see such rapid progression? Sawiri's angry intervention at Craven Cottage last October shook this club by the lapels something fierce. Our lion roared (albeit in a new, different direction ;)) and this sleeping giant is now fully awake.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on May 30, 2023, 10:13:49 AM
There's no extra payments for Grealish. They met a buyout clause, why would Man City then add clauses to pay even more when they have no need to?

I was hoping that would be the silver lining of man city beating Inter... oh well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on May 30, 2023, 10:21:05 AM
I remember DW bemoaning a few times early in the season that coming up to 5 years of being here, how further along we really were under the current ownership.

Who'd 'a thunk that employing a genuine world-class manager for the first time in the history of our club would see such rapid progression? Sawiri's angry intervention at Craven Cottage last October shook this club by the lapels something fierce. Our lion roared (albeit in a new, different direction ;)) and this sleeping giant is now fully awake.

That moment will go down in our history. It felt like the first time ever, really, that the person that really matters at the club looked at the situation with the clarity of someone that has had enough of excuses and bullshit, and acted accordingly.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on May 30, 2023, 12:35:09 PM
And also had the financial clout to write off £40m...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 30, 2023, 01:10:38 PM
I remember DW bemoaning a few times early in the season that coming up to 5 years of being here, how further along we really were under the current ownership.

Who'd 'a thunk that employing a genuine world-class manager for the first time in the history of our club would see such rapid progression? Sawiri's angry intervention at Craven Cottage last October shook this club by the lapels something fierce. Our lion roared (albeit in a new, different direction ;)) and this sleeping giant is now fully awake.

And as I said when Emery was appointed, there were no doubts from then on.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 30, 2023, 01:25:47 PM
I was a bit concerned after Jan. Felt like we'd written off the season. What little I know.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on May 30, 2023, 01:51:21 PM
I remember DW bemoaning a few times early in the season that coming up to 5 years of being here, how further along we really were under the current ownership.

Who'd 'a thunk that employing a genuine world-class manager for the first time in the history of our club would see such rapid progression? Sawiri's angry intervention at Craven Cottage last October shook this club by the lapels something fierce. Our lion roared (albeit in a new, different direction ;)) and this sleeping giant is now fully awake.

That moment will go down in our history. It felt like the first time ever, really, that the person that really matters at the club looked at the situation with the clarity of someone that has had enough of excuses and bullshit, and acted accordingly.
Yep, this. Fill credit to Sawiris on that, acted decisively and it's paid dividends.

Get the impression that we're not aiming to get in to the Champions League next season. We're aiming to get in to the Champions League every season. It's refreshing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on May 30, 2023, 02:05:25 PM
There's a video of Nas, Wes and Emery walking along the front of the Holte.  They all look delighted, but at one point Wes shares a glance with Emery and gestures as is to say the noise and cheering is unbelievable.  If you see it you'll know what I mean.  They must be thinking if we react like this to conference qualification what's it going to be like when we win a trophy?  Days like Sunday must be brilliant for them and really send the message they are on the right track. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on May 30, 2023, 02:09:45 PM
I remember DW bemoaning a few times early in the season that coming up to 5 years of being here, how further along we really were under the current ownership.

Who'd 'a thunk that employing a genuine world-class manager for the first time in the history of our club would see such rapid progression? Sawiri's angry intervention at Craven Cottage last October shook this club by the lapels something fierce. Our lion roared (albeit in a new, different direction ;)) and this sleeping giant is now fully awake.

And as I said when Emery was appointed, there were no doubts from then on.

Reminds me of the poster who branded those calling for Gerrard to go as over-reacting like Daily Mail commenters. Showed his usual judgement, and ironic as well, coming from someone who used to post in off-topic like a Daily Mail commenter.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on May 30, 2023, 04:00:58 PM
And also had the financial clout to write off £40m...

Is this the pay-off to Gerrard and his coaches (seems pretty high if so) or something else?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on May 30, 2023, 04:07:38 PM
There's a video of Nas, Wes and Emery walking along the front of the Holte.  They all look delighted, but at one point Wes shares a glance with Emery and gestures as is to say the noise and cheering is unbelievable.  If you see it you'll know what I mean.  They must be thinking if we react like this to conference qualification what's it going to be like when we win a trophy?  Days like Sunday must be brilliant for them and really send the message they are on the right track. 

Do you have a link to that or any interesting lap of honour videos? Disappointed the club haven't put anything out.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: oldhill_avfc on May 30, 2023, 04:48:01 PM
I remember DW bemoaning a few times early in the season that coming up to 5 years of being here, how further along we really were under the current ownership.

Who'd 'a thunk that employing a genuine world-class manager for the first time in the history of our club would see such rapid progression? Sawiri's angry intervention at Craven Cottage last October shook this club by the lapels something fierce. Our lion roared (albeit in a new, different direction ;)) and this sleeping giant is now fully awake.

Don't mean to sound picky, but Emery's not the first world-class manager in our history. 

You could add  Ramsey, Hogan, Mercer, Saunders and Taylor to the list.

When you go for quality you're more likely to get results - all of this makes the Gerrard appointment seem even more stupid (and expensive) than it did at the time.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on May 30, 2023, 04:50:31 PM
I remember DW bemoaning a few times early in the season that coming up to 5 years of being here, how further along we really were under the current ownership.

Who'd 'a thunk that employing a genuine world-class manager for the first time in the history of our club would see such rapid progression? Sawiri's angry intervention at Craven Cottage last October shook this club by the lapels something fierce. Our lion roared (albeit in a new, different direction ;)) and this sleeping giant is now fully awake.

Don't mean to sound picky, but Emery's not the first world-class manager in our history. 

You could add  Ramsey, Hogan, Mercer, Saunders and Taylor to the list.

When you go for quality you're more likely to get results - all of this makes the Gerrard appointment seem even more stupid (and expensive) than it did at the time.

Uh oh.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on May 30, 2023, 04:53:35 PM
And also had the financial clout to write off £40m...

Is this the pay-off to Gerrard and his coaches (seems pretty high if so) or something else?

The payoff to Rangers to take them all in the first place (£4m) and then to pay up the remaining 3 years of the contracts of Slippy (£5m-£6m per year) and 3 or 4 of his backroom team (another £3-4m per year).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on May 30, 2023, 05:29:00 PM
The current Blackpool manager cost more than a mil, just for him to replace Beale.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on May 30, 2023, 05:31:57 PM
There were a few comments from some during January wondering if the owners had lost interest. I didnt get it personally. They were never going to bring in a manager as good as this one and not back him long term.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on May 30, 2023, 05:37:24 PM
There were a few comments from some during January wondering if the owners had lost interest. I didnt get it personally. They were never going to bring in a manager as good as this one and not back him long term.

You were right then and you're still right. Owners losing interest don't tend to build a new stand and an entertainment complex to go with it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LukeJames on May 30, 2023, 05:47:06 PM
There were a few comments from some during January wondering if the owners had lost interest. I didnt get it personally. They were never going to bring in a manager as good as this one and not back him long term.
Owners losing interest don't tend to build a new stand
Wolves say hi.

How out of fucking place does that stand look BTW!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on May 30, 2023, 05:51:18 PM
There were a few comments from some during January wondering if the owners had lost interest. I didnt get it personally. They were never going to bring in a manager as good as this one and not back him long term.
Owners losing interest don't tend to build a new stand
Wolves say hi.

How out of fucking place does that stand look BTW!

It manages to look both big and small at the same time, it's weird.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on May 30, 2023, 06:22:38 PM
There's a video of Nas, Wes and Emery walking along the front of the Holte.  They all look delighted, but at one point Wes shares a glance with Emery and gestures as is to say the noise and cheering is unbelievable.  If you see it you'll know what I mean.  They must be thinking if we react like this to conference qualification what's it going to be like when we win a trophy?  Days like Sunday must be brilliant for them and really send the message they are on the right track. 

Do you have a link to that or any interesting lap of honour videos? Disappointed the club haven't put anything out.
Here on Twitter
https://twitter.com/footballlover63/status/1663100390596853766?s=20
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 30, 2023, 07:16:13 PM
There's a video of Nas, Wes and Emery walking along the front of the Holte.  They all look delighted, but at one point Wes shares a glance with Emery and gestures as is to say the noise and cheering is unbelievable.  If you see it you'll know what I mean.  They must be thinking if we react like this to conference qualification what's it going to be like when we win a trophy?  Days like Sunday must be brilliant for them and really send the message they are on the right track. 

Do you have a link to that or any interesting lap of honour videos? Disappointed the club haven't put anything out.
Here on Twitter
https://twitter.com/footballlover63/status/1663100390596853766?s=20
I just love that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on May 30, 2023, 11:32:08 PM
Class. More please and thank you.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on June 02, 2023, 08:38:23 AM
The latest Forbes valuations of football clubs, are the US teams really more valuable than us, as well as Palace and Leicester?

https://www.forbes.com/lists/soccer-valuations/
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 02, 2023, 09:02:53 AM
The latest Forbes valuations of football clubs, are the US teams really more valuable than us, as well as Palace and Leicester?

https://www.forbes.com/lists/soccer-valuations/

I guess the 'value' comes from ownership of the franchise. I'm sure I read that it costs half a billion to set up a new club in the MLS (not all of that being the franchise fee, obvs, but a fair chunk of it).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on June 02, 2023, 10:32:58 AM
The latest Forbes valuations of football clubs, are the US teams really more valuable than us, as well as Palace and Leicester?

https://www.forbes.com/lists/soccer-valuations/

I take this kind of stuff with a huge dollop of salt.  Looking at the way NBA teams seem to sell for way more than expected value, a sports club's worth is whatever a buying party is prepared to pay.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on June 02, 2023, 10:34:27 AM
Imagine Leicester fell about 60 places at around half six on Sunday
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 02, 2023, 10:42:58 AM
It’s complete bollocks when you look at the revenue then valuation of MLS clubs.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on June 02, 2023, 10:58:39 AM
Palace? Ffs, their ground is being propped up by breezeblocks and the size of Willy Zaha's ego.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Beard82 on June 02, 2023, 11:06:23 AM
NWSE investment is looking pretty shrewd at the moment to be fair
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on June 02, 2023, 11:28:21 AM
Trust me, this will be a disaster.
Trust me, this will be an enormous success.
I can not decide who to believe from you two🤔

Well played. You know have 2 legitimate quotes to fall back on when it’s a roaring success or flaming disaster!


Quite interesting to go back to the beginning of this thread
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Weedy on June 06, 2023, 08:22:16 PM
Brand Finance - Top 50 Football 2023

Villa @ 20th

https://brandirectory.com/rankings/football/table


Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on June 06, 2023, 08:33:42 PM
Brand Finance - Top 50 Football 2023

Villa @ 20th

https://brandirectory.com/rankings/football/table




It's not catching up with the big 4/5 that we need to be focused on, it's absolutely pathetic we're below the likes of West Ham and Newcastle.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smithy on June 06, 2023, 10:34:07 PM
Brand Finance - Top 50 Football 2023

Villa @ 20th

https://brandirectory.com/rankings/football/table




It's not catching up with the big 4/5 that we need to be focused on, it's absolutely pathetic we're below the likes of West Ham and Newcastle.

Along with Newcastle, we're the only teams in the top 20 without European football in the last year, and Newcastle are now "The World's Richest Club" and in the Champions League this coming season, so it's not a surprise to see them in there.

The fact we're as high as we are, given it's only the last 6 months we've started to do something on the pitch, is a testament to the potential we have.  A couple of years competing at the top end, and in Europe, and we'll be at least 10 places higher and troubling the current top 10 on the pitch.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on June 22, 2023, 02:53:32 PM
Hmmmm.

A few eyebrow-raisers of late.

BK8
Expansion 'on hold'
"yeah but yeah but no but' on the new badge.

Not looking too joined-up in some of this stuff.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 22, 2023, 03:06:44 PM
And one free transfer in so far.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on June 22, 2023, 03:08:31 PM
Hmmmm.

A few eyebrow-raisers of late.

BK8
Expansion 'on hold'
"yeah but yeah but no but' on the new badge.

Not looking too joined-up in some of this stuff.

I get the feeling that we're doing a full review of everything now that we're getting serious, serious operators in.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on June 22, 2023, 03:09:04 PM
And one free transfer in so far.

And a bloody good one at that, points in the right direction if you ask me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on June 22, 2023, 03:11:30 PM
And one free transfer in so far.

TBF they wouldn't be bringing in Monchi if they weren't going to do any transfer business, that's not really worrying.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan82 on June 22, 2023, 03:12:50 PM
Hmmmm.

A few eyebrow-raisers of late.

BK8
Expansion 'on hold'
"yeah but yeah but no but' on the new badge.

Not looking too joined-up in some of this stuff.

I get the feeling that we're doing a full review of everything now that we're getting serious, serious operators in.

People don't like having their time wasted. We were consulted about the stadium and the badge. Now vague comms about something, sometime, down the line.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on June 22, 2023, 04:43:17 PM
Hmmmm.

A few eyebrow-raisers of late.

BK8
Expansion 'on hold'
"yeah but yeah but no but' on the new badge.

Not looking too joined-up in some of this stuff.

Sponsorship was signed ages ago.
The development position is unaltered.
A new man responsible for Global Ops has just arrived and likely thought a new branding is a bad idea.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on June 22, 2023, 04:51:07 PM
Hmmmm.

A few eyebrow-raisers of late.

BK8
Expansion 'on hold'
"yeah but yeah but no but' on the new badge.

Not looking too joined-up in some of this stuff.

I get the feeling that we're doing a full review of everything now that we're getting serious, serious operators in.

People don't like having their time wasted. We were consulted about the stadium and the badge. Now vague comms about something, sometime, down the line.

Each and to their own like, but personally I couldn't give a toss
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on June 22, 2023, 05:00:18 PM
Hopefully they'll pull the plug on the terrace view too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villadelph on June 22, 2023, 05:02:29 PM
Hmmmm.

A few eyebrow-raisers of late.

BK8
Expansion 'on hold'
"yeah but yeah but no but' on the new badge.

Not looking too joined-up in some of this stuff.

I get the feeling that we're doing a full review of everything now that we're getting serious, serious operators in.

People don't like having their time wasted. We were consulted about the stadium and the badge. Now vague comms about something, sometime, down the line.

I understand your sentiment, but some of the people that were consulted still cannot spell Ciaran Clark correctly. We probably shouldn't be too surprised when they're told that they aren't the best person to spearhead the growth of a global brand. With that said, this is all a bit disjointed and unfortunately that tends to happen when you make a change at the top.

At this point, I'm willing to be patient and see what comes out of it. For all we know, the new badge could be a resounding success this season and the club pushes on with it.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on June 22, 2023, 05:07:21 PM
Hmmmm.

A few eyebrow-raisers of late.

BK8
Expansion 'on hold'
"yeah but yeah but no but' on the new badge.

Not looking too joined-up in some of this stuff.

I get the feeling that we're doing a full review of everything now that we're getting serious, serious operators in.

People don't like having their time wasted. We were consulted about the stadium and the badge. Now vague comms about something, sometime, down the line.

But you'd be happy to go ahead with something substandard for the next 20 years just so you didn't have to waste any more of your time?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 22, 2023, 07:05:08 PM
Hmmmm.

A few eyebrow-raisers of late.

BK8
Expansion 'on hold'
"yeah but yeah but no but' on the new badge.

Not looking too joined-up in some of this stuff.

Sponsorship was signed ages ago.
The development position is unaltered.
A new man responsible for Global Ops has just arrived and likely thought a new branding is a bad idea.

And if you're going to pause and take a deeper look this might be the way to do it as untidy as it looks. Or at minimum the time to do it before ground changes/improvements take place. And let's face it, nobody outside of the villagers of B6 give a fuck or will notice.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on June 22, 2023, 07:55:33 PM
Hopefully they'll pull the plug on the terrace view too.

Yes and let the entire Upper Holte benefit from the refurb.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on June 22, 2023, 08:04:32 PM
Hmmmm.

A few eyebrow-raisers of late.

BK8
Expansion 'on hold'
"yeah but yeah but no but' on the new badge.

Not looking too joined-up in some of this stuff.

I get the feeling that we're doing a full review of everything now that we're getting serious, serious operators in.

People don't like having their time wasted. We were consulted about the stadium and the badge. Now vague comms about something, sometime, down the line.

But you'd be happy to go ahead with something substandard for the next 20 years just so you didn't have to waste any more of your time?

Something 'substandard' that they went with.

It is not the end of the world, but it is dreadful business, and if this is why Purslow got the bullet, I am not remotely surprised.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 22, 2023, 08:10:41 PM
Let's be honest - we weren't properly consulted. We were given three options for the badge, and would anyone have gone for a wrong way round version given a wider choice? We were asked what was wanted in the Holte. Paying £25 a match was never mentioned.  Like the Lerner badge it was an object lesson in pushing people towards voting for what they wanted in the first place. Consultation only takes place because the Premier League says it has to.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on June 22, 2023, 08:14:08 PM
Hmmmm.

A few eyebrow-raisers of late.

BK8
Expansion 'on hold'
"yeah but yeah but no but' on the new badge.

Not looking too joined-up in some of this stuff.

I get the feeling that we're doing a full review of everything now that we're getting serious, serious operators in.

People don't like having their time wasted. We were consulted about the stadium and the badge. Now vague comms about something, sometime, down the line.

But you'd be happy to go ahead with something substandard for the next 20 years just so you didn't have to waste any more of your time?

Something 'substandard' that they went with.

It is not the end of the world, but it is dreadful business, and if this is why Purslow got the bullet, I am not remotely surprised.

Oh I know and I agree, I'm glad that they seem to be realising and putting it right.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on June 22, 2023, 08:23:56 PM
Don't spend a penny on anything but the team on the pitch.  I couldn't give a fuck who the sponsors are when we win the FA Cup.  Getting the team on the pitch right, drives everything else.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 22, 2023, 09:42:35 PM
Just hope these are all Purslow legacies.
Stadium -Branding/ Badge -Kit - Sponsors.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: astonvilla82 on June 22, 2023, 09:50:51 PM
Don't spend a penny on anything but the team on the pitch.  I couldn't give a fuck who the sponsors are when we win the FA Cup.  Getting the team on the pitch right, drives everything else.
👍
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 22, 2023, 10:14:09 PM
Germany invaded Russia in ‘41 so it’s a nod to us playing Bayern Munich and the Germans being superior.  That’s as credible as the shit that’s been put out.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on June 22, 2023, 11:06:57 PM
And one free transfer in so far.

Not sure I'd have felt better if he had been still under contract and we'd shelled out £35m or whatever his actual value is.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 22, 2023, 11:10:41 PM
Which we wouldn’t have done in my view so as I say a free transfer.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on June 23, 2023, 01:43:23 AM
But you're using it as a stick to beat the club with.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on June 23, 2023, 06:31:52 AM
But you're using it as a stick to beat the club with.

And it's a bit pathetic as well. A few other clubs would have loved to have taken him and Kamara last season for nothing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 29, 2023, 03:28:16 PM
We’ve reduced our ownership share at Vitoria to avoid complications. Smart move

https://twitter.com/avfcofficial/status/1674423872597417988?s=46&t=0-BUXD66ovTcofwrbTW4Ag
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villatillidie25 on June 29, 2023, 07:26:46 PM
Smarter move would be to invest the right amount in the first place surely…?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on June 29, 2023, 07:30:10 PM
Blame Purslow.
May as well
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: jwarry on June 29, 2023, 07:36:37 PM
Smarter move would be to invest the right amount in the first place surely…?

Indeed, who fucked up?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on June 29, 2023, 09:06:15 PM
The tipping point is 51%. I can’t really see how 46% or 29% makes much difference.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on June 29, 2023, 09:19:54 PM
The tipping point is 51%. I can’t really see how 46% or 29% makes much difference.

The threshold for a mandatory offer is 30% in many European countries so perhaps it's related to that somehow. No idea what the threshold is in Portugal or how the UEFA regulations are phrased, but 29% seems an unusual figure to reduce the stake to. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dogtanian on July 03, 2023, 03:18:46 PM
I've only just noticed, but all three managers sacked by NSWE have had the axe 11 league games into the season...

Forest away had better be a big win for Unai!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 20, 2023, 11:13:19 AM
Five years ago today, we were plucked from the jaws of administration.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 20, 2023, 11:20:05 AM
Five years ago today, we were plucked from the jaws of administration.

Spawny Vilers.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 20, 2023, 11:22:23 AM
That was the best thread ever on SHA. From celebration to Spawny Vilers. Still, tides turning now and all that shite.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on July 20, 2023, 11:26:22 AM
It's looked back on with double fondness from me, it marked a turning point in my life where a series of shit things stopped happening, I landed a great job just after and it's been onwards and upwards since.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 20, 2023, 11:29:51 AM
That was the best thread ever on SHA. From celebration to Spawny Vilers. Still, tides turning now and all that shite.

Ah, the thread that spawned the word 'spawny Vilers'. If any of them bring it up I make out it never happened and eradicate it from our history as everything was meant to be, all part of the master plan and all that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 20, 2023, 11:32:17 AM
It's looked back on with double fondness from me, it marked a turning point in my life where a series of shit things stopped happening, I landed a great job just after and it's been onwards and upwards since.

Not quite so upwards for your poor, benighted tenants.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on July 20, 2023, 11:33:32 AM
It's looked back on with double fondness from me, it marked a turning point in my life where a series of shit things stopped happening, I landed a great job just after and it's been onwards and upwards since.

Not quite so upwards for your poor, benighted tenants.

Their rent costs wouldn't be a problem if you paid them a living wage
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 20, 2023, 11:46:35 AM
It's looked back on with double fondness from me, it marked a turning point in my life where a series of shit things stopped happening, I landed a great job just after and it's been onwards and upwards since.

Not quite so upwards for your poor, benighted tenants.

Their rent costs wouldn't be a problem if you paid them a living wage

They get a living wage. None of them have starved to death for weeks now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on July 22, 2023, 09:08:55 PM
Any doubters convinced yet?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 22, 2023, 09:11:32 PM
Nope. They've lost interest innit, and are just happy to bob along in the bottom half of the Premier League.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lescottstweets on July 22, 2023, 09:13:02 PM
Any doubters convinced yet?

Been convinced a while mate. Genuinely looking forward to this season and cannot see anything beyond Champions League qualification. I’m positive we’ve almost made it as one of the big teams again.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on July 22, 2023, 09:15:08 PM
Nope. They've lost interest innit, and are just happy to bob along in the bottom half of the Premier League.

I can't believe people actually believed that. I get the nerves but they haven't let us down.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 22, 2023, 09:28:46 PM
Wasn’t there some sort of unofficial statement or something that suggested for others to watch out this summer, after it was alleged by the Spanish press we were skint when explaining Alemany’s u-turn?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VillaTim on July 22, 2023, 09:34:09 PM
 NSWE do seem hell bent on making this club successful again , feels like they are making up for that lost 12 months under carpethead
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 22, 2023, 09:38:40 PM
On the flip side, if Gerrard had actually been moderately competent, or instead of him we'd hired someone that was, we almost certainly wouldn't have the manager and squad we do now. Best thing Gerrard ever did for us was to be utterly shit. The money grabbing action man haired twat.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on July 22, 2023, 09:42:20 PM
A proper sliding doors moment, and probably was the start of a long goodbye for purslow, too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ian. on July 22, 2023, 09:45:09 PM
We’ve had a couple of these massive sliding door moments now since 2018.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 22, 2023, 09:46:12 PM
A proper sliding doors moment, and probably was the start of a long goodbye for purslow, too.

That and Whelan’s penalty miss
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 22, 2023, 09:46:42 PM
Nope. They've lost interest innit, and are just happy to bob along in the bottom half of the Premier League.

I can't believe people actually believed that. I get the nerves but they haven't let us down.

Someone on here in January suggested that he was only picking two goalkeepers on the bench to get the owners to put their hand in their pocket. It was just embarrassing to read.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: MalcolmP on July 22, 2023, 09:51:00 PM
It worked beautifully.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VillaTim on July 22, 2023, 09:53:32 PM
We’ve had a couple of these massive sliding door moments now since 2018.
Losing that play off final v Fulham was a massive result for us perversely
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 22, 2023, 09:54:36 PM
I said at the time that it made no sense to think they wouldn't back him. You don't rage sack someone in a way that was pretty humiliating for the manager, then go out and get one of the best managers in the world to replace him, and then not back the new fella.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Steve67 on July 22, 2023, 09:59:35 PM
The minute they appointed Inai Emery, they gave a massive indication that there was no more making do.  No more second fiddle.  Brilliant appointment and they mean business. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 22, 2023, 10:08:22 PM
I said at the time that it made no sense to think they wouldn't back him. You don't rage sack someone in a way that was pretty humiliating for the manager, then go out and get one of the best managers in the world to replace him, and then not back the new fella.

And especially when it was the owner himself that did it all and very publicly. Not like it was Purslow. So no way NSWE was going to then stiff him. They have basically reshaped the entire club since hiring Emery. The investment isn’t just in transfer activity.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VillaTim on July 22, 2023, 10:10:23 PM
I wonder what outsiders they (NSWE) have advising them , or is Sawaris very clued up, he was clearly very pissed off with how it was going that night in Fulham bought things to a head but I wonder did he know of Emerys calibre or take external advice ??
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dave P on July 22, 2023, 10:41:29 PM
We’ve had a couple of these massive sliding door moments now since 2018.
Losing that play off final v Fulham was a massive result for us perversely

As was losing 3-0 to Fulham last season
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VillaTim on July 22, 2023, 10:46:10 PM
We’ve had a couple of these massive sliding door moments now since 2018.
Losing that play off final v Fulham was a massive result for us perversely

As was losing 3-0 to Fulham last season
We are seriously indebted to Fulham . Sham-on mother fucker
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on July 22, 2023, 11:08:15 PM
Wasn’t there some sort of unofficial statement or something that suggested for others to watch out this summer, after it was alleged by the Spanish press we were skint when explaining Alemany’s u-turn?

Must have missed that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 23, 2023, 09:05:07 AM
The emergence of newcastle probably helped as it added another competitor to finish in the top 7.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dante Lavelli on July 23, 2023, 10:18:26 AM
I wonder what outsiders they (NSWE) have advising them , or is Sawaris very clued up, he was clearly very pissed off with how it was going that night in Fulham bought things to a head but I wonder did he know of Emerys calibre or take external advice ??

It’s been suggested that Sawaris is mates with the “super agent” Mendes. Emery is also on his books, so there’s a good chance that he was involved.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 23, 2023, 10:42:29 AM
This time last year we (they) were in the middle east pre-season, I believe.

Who would have thought then that 12 months later, the manager would be back in that part of the world again, except managing Al-Jankovic whilst we'd be managed by Unai Emery?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 23, 2023, 10:59:48 AM
This time last year we (they) were in the middle east pre-season, I believe.

Who would have thought then that 12 months later, the manager would be back in that part of the world again, except managing Al-Jankovic whilst we'd be managed by Unai Emery?

That was during the world cup wasn't it? Pre-season was in Australia.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 23, 2023, 12:53:54 PM
This time last year we (they) were in the middle east pre-season, I believe.

Who would have thought then that 12 months later, the manager would be back in that part of the world again, except managing Al-Jankovic whilst we'd be managed by Unai Emery?

That was during the world cup wasn't it? Pre-season was in Australia.

Blimey. Even more recent!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dogtanian on July 24, 2023, 01:15:29 PM
I was just thinking about how far we have come in five short years. If you look at this forum, we're arguing about the plans to increase the stadium to over 50k, our second-choice keeper / third-choice striker, and the direction in which a lion faces...

There's fanbases out there who would kill for those to be their most pressing concerns!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 24, 2023, 01:18:31 PM
If you look at this forum, we're arguing about the plans to increase the stadium to over 50k, our second-choice keeper / third-choice striker, and the direction in which a lion faces...

I remember the years when it was all about Tottenham's wage bill.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 24, 2023, 01:20:06 PM
I was just thinking about how far we have come in five short years. If you look at this forum, we're arguing about the plans to increase the stadium to over 50k, our second-choice keeper / third-choice striker, and the direction in which a lion faces...

There's fanbases out there who would kill for those to be their most pressing concerns!

Is the lion facing the wrong way? Why has no-one mentioned this?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dogtanian on July 24, 2023, 01:21:56 PM
I was just thinking about how far we have come in five short years. If you look at this forum, we're arguing about the plans to increase the stadium to over 50k, our second-choice keeper / third-choice striker, and the direction in which a lion faces...

There's fanbases out there who would kill for those to be their most pressing concerns!

Is the lion facing the wrong way? Why has no-one mentioned this?

Shhhhh!  ;D
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: astonvilla82 on July 24, 2023, 07:42:00 PM
I was just thinking about how far we have come in five short years. If you look at this forum, we're arguing about the plans to increase the stadium to over 50k, our second-choice keeper / third-choice striker, and the direction in which a lion faces...

There's fanbases out there who would kill for those to be their most pressing concerns!

Is the lion facing the wrong way? Why has no-one mentioned this?
What Lion?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Beard82 on July 24, 2023, 07:47:23 PM
I was just thinking about how far we have come in five short years. If you look at this forum, we're arguing about the plans to increase the stadium to over 50k, our second-choice keeper / third-choice striker, and the direction in which a lion faces...

There's fanbases out there who would kill for those to be their most pressing concerns!

Is the lion facing the wrong way? Why has no-one mentioned this?
What Lion?
Its difficult to notice, but its under the star - which I think is there to represent the amount Birmingham City sold for.  1 star = £1
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on July 24, 2023, 10:41:31 PM
If you look at this forum, we're arguing about the plans to increase the stadium to over 50k, our second-choice keeper / third-choice striker, and the direction in which a lion faces...

I remember the years when it was all about Tottenham's wage bill.

Yeah, and that was before the decade of shite!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on September 06, 2023, 09:10:04 PM
Ben Hatton to be appointed as COO.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on September 06, 2023, 09:12:25 PM
Ben Hatton to be appointed as COO.

Is that Head of pigeons?

Taxi!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ducksworthy on September 06, 2023, 09:34:48 PM
Ben Hatton to be appointed as COO.

Is that Head of pigeons?

Taxi!

Whatever it is, let’s hope it’s a real coup!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: stevo_st on September 07, 2023, 12:09:11 AM
He’ll have to carri(er) a lot of responsibility
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on September 07, 2023, 08:53:12 AM
When does he start in his post?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on September 07, 2023, 08:57:21 AM
When does he start in his post?
Bet he can't wait to start, his wages in Blackpool were chicken feed
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Border villan on September 07, 2023, 09:03:33 AM
Is this appointment a coo for the Villa?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Tayls_7 on September 07, 2023, 11:46:31 AM
As long as he gets us travelling in the right direction who cares.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 07, 2023, 12:07:25 PM
As long as he gets us travelling in the right direction who cares.
not like the lion then
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Tayls_7 on September 07, 2023, 01:23:54 PM
As long as he gets us travelling in the right direction who cares.
not like the lion then

Indeed. So ridiculous.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 07, 2023, 02:07:19 PM
If you’re reading, Ben:

1. Sort the website out, it’s a mess of different logins and inconsistencies, but I suspect you know that because your old company built it. 

2. Please make it much easier to buy decent food and drink at the ground. That does not mean more Terrace View rubbish dressed up to sound like the fans wanted it. 

3. Please do something about the state of the toilets. You’re sometimes charging people over 60 a pop to come to the matches, yet you have toilet facilities straight out of the 1980s.

4. Please turn the PA system down.

5. I said PLEASE TURN IT DOWN.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 07, 2023, 03:02:56 PM
According to this Beeb article we're the 11th biggest net spenders over the last decade. I know it's not all on NSWE but didn't think it was worth its own thread so am posting on this one.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66726456
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Gareth on September 07, 2023, 03:21:47 PM
If you’re reading, Ben:

1. Sort the website out, it’s a mess of different logins and inconsistencies, but I suspect you know that because your old company built it. 

2. Please make it much easier to buy decent food and drink at the ground. That does not mean more Terrace View rubbish dressed up to sound like the fans wanted it. 

3. Please do something about the state of the toilets. You’re sometimes charging people over 60 a pop to come to the matches, yet you have toilet facilities straight out of the 1980s.

4. Please turn the PA system down.

5. I said PLEASE TURN IT DOWN.

Pardon!

Spot on
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on September 08, 2023, 11:33:57 AM
According to this Beeb article we're the 11th biggest net spenders over the last decade. I know it's not all on NSWE but didn't think it was worth its own thread so am posting on this one.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66726456

Al-Hilal have come out of nowhere and spent almost as much as us in quick time.

Surprising how low down the list Real Madrid and Bayern Munich. Historically Real would have certainly been a lot higher.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rigadon on September 08, 2023, 12:59:52 PM
According to this Beeb article we're the 11th biggest net spenders over the last decade. I know it's not all on NSWE but didn't think it was worth its own thread so am posting on this one.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66726456

Al-Hilal have come out of nowhere and spent almost as much as us in quick time.

Surprising how low down the list Real Madrid and Bayern Munich. Historically Real would have certainly been a lot higher.

Interesting to see this list just in terms of the cost of players in v players sold, stripped of commercial revenue etc.  Shows how clubs regularly in the CL have been able to hoover up players and make losses (in the way being depicted) in a way that other clubs haven't been able to, and illustrates the spending power of the premier league.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 08, 2023, 01:38:09 PM
I for one am absolutely PUMPED at the recent Corpay announcement.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SamTheMouse on September 08, 2023, 04:09:42 PM
Corpay should team up with Walsall. Their name would certainly resonate with most of the fans.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 07, 2023, 12:54:26 PM
V Sports about to finalize a partnership with Spanish side Real Union where our Emery has a majority stake apparently. It’s a Spanish third division side so like a good feeder for possible talent to come through and shouldn’t cause a direct conflict with Aston Villa.

https://x.com/johntownley11/status/1721823099656491195?s=46
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Gareth on November 07, 2023, 12:57:55 PM
Another good link to support Unai being in this for the long haul
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on November 13, 2023, 07:58:42 PM
Looks like a partnership with Algerian side MC Alger is on the way too:

https://lagazettedufennec.com/formation-le-mc-alger-signe-un-partenariat-avec-un-club-de-premier-league/
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 13, 2023, 07:59:35 PM
Slowly but surely taking over the world.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on November 13, 2023, 08:12:14 PM
How many is that now ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Simon Page on November 13, 2023, 08:53:19 PM
Am I alone/very much in the minority in thinking no-one should have any kind of stake in more than one club at a time? Ditto for reciprocal deals?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 13, 2023, 08:53:53 PM
You are not alone.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Simon Page on November 13, 2023, 08:56:17 PM
Thought we're far apart, you're always in my heart.

And Bubbles'.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dante Lavelli on November 13, 2023, 09:11:41 PM
I disagree with the idea too. 

Isn’t the PL about to vote against clubs loaning players between sister clubs?  The benefit of having a family of clubs must diminish considerably if you can’t easily swap players so I’m surprised we are investing in more.  What is the benefit of the extra clubs that one of the others couldn’t already provide?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on November 14, 2023, 08:17:23 AM
Not sure where else to post this but Arsenal tickets went on sale to members yesterday and I paid £95 for an adult and under 18 ticket on the Lower Holte. Fuck me!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on November 14, 2023, 08:39:50 AM
Not sure where else to post this but Arsenal tickets went on sale to members yesterday and I paid £95 for an adult and under 18 ticket on the Lower Holte. Fuck me!!

Good job your proper loaded then chico
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on November 14, 2023, 09:14:59 AM
Am I alone/very much in the minority in thinking no-one should have any kind of stake in more than one club at a time? Ditto for reciprocal deals?
Not alone at all, but I think it's fairly inevitable of our aim is to be near/at the top of the food chain. We're going to have to compete with the Manc City/PSG type sportswashing clubs, and the least morally repugnant way of doing that is to develop youth players and sell them for big profit$.

If that's our aim, then we have to be able to do it on a scale that will allow us to compete with the sportswashing clubs, and that probably involves doing what we're doing I'd guess. Not nice, not good for the game IMO ... but probably less bad than covering up an atrocious human rights record and all that comes with it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dave P on November 14, 2023, 09:57:34 AM
Not alone at all but, sadly, this is another way to keep revenues up to ensure we at least compete. There is a feeling in football that morality went a long time ago and if we don’t benefit, someone else will. Be it multi club partnerships or Middle Eastern ownership. Doesn’t make it right, mind.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 14, 2023, 10:09:48 AM
Egypt is (partly) Middle Eastern. I guess you either accept that we're a Premier League club and suck up everything that comes with being owned by billionaires, or you have nothing to do with it and go and watch non-league.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Monty on November 14, 2023, 10:16:03 AM
The difference is state ownership. That breaks things. It would be bad enough if it were Norway but, to put it mildly, it is not.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on November 14, 2023, 10:38:29 AM
Not sure where else to post this but Arsenal tickets went on sale to members yesterday and I paid £95 for an adult and under 18 ticket on the Lower Holte. Fuck me!!

Good job your proper loaded then chico

Good job only one of my kids is interested in football or we’d be watching from home on the telly. Too fucking expensive.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nev on November 14, 2023, 10:52:08 AM
The better we get the more costly it will be.

I was thinking about next season's ST price while I was watching the highlights of Sunday's game and starting to put money away now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: garyellis on November 14, 2023, 05:12:07 PM
To compete (while staying within the rules that now operate) with the likes of Chelsea and City who cheated their way to the top we will have to use every lever there is.
It really is that simple.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pablo_picasso on November 14, 2023, 05:14:19 PM
To compete (while staying within the rules that now operate) with the likes of Chelsea and City who cheated their way to the top we will have to use every lever there is.
It really is that simple.

And then closed the loopholes they used so they cant be caught.

Although Chelsea have still managed to fuck themselves despite spending over £1B...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on November 21, 2023, 05:21:06 PM
So the PL teams have voted to allow loans between linked clubs.  7 clubs voted to allow it and I'm guessing we will have been one of them.

So much for doing the right thing.

Talksport:
Premier League clubs have voted not to block loans between teams with the same owner in a boost to Newcastle, Chelsea and Manchester City, talkSPORT understands.

Plans were drawn up ahead of the latest Premier League shareholder meeting to create a temporary block on related-party loans.

It would directly affect the January transfer window - and especially Newcastle, who have been linked with former Wolves star Ruben Neves.

The motion needed 14 of the 20 clubs to vote in favour during a meeting between Premier League shareholders that was held on Tuesday, but talkSPORT understands that only 13 clubs voting for the measures, meaning that the plans will not go ahead by one vote.

It means that Newcastle will are free to sign players on loan from the PIF-owned clubs in the Saudi Pro League in January.

That includes Neves' current club Al Hilal, and the Portugal international has been strongly linked with a loan move to Tyneside.

Newcastle are not the only club within a multi-ownership model, with eight other Premier League teams also working in a similar way.

A proposal had been fast-tracked ahead of the meeting to ban transfers between clubs with the same ownership.

The measures would only be temporary before a long-term strategy would be drafted up to preserve the integrity of the Premier League.

Whether that long-term plan will come to fruition now remains to be seen while the temporary measures are set to be knocked down.

Neves was one of the top names shortlisted by Newcastle this winter for a potential loan.

The Magpies had made Neves a top target to replace Sandro Tonali, who was handed a ten-month ban for breaking gambling rules.

But there has been outrage over how such a transfer could go ahead, considering that both clubs are owned by PIF.

Newcastle are not the only teams who could take advantage of the current loophole, though, with City and Chelsea also operating with multi-club models.

Under the guise BlueCo, Chelsea's Clearlake Capital owners purchased Strasbourg in Ligue 1 this year.

Meanwhile, City Football Group own a roster of clubs including New York City, Melbourne City and Troyes.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 21, 2023, 05:52:42 PM
Great, Newcastle can now bring in Neves to strengthen them in January, while we're free to loan the cream of the crop from er, Zed FC. Fantastic.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: rougegorge on November 21, 2023, 06:15:07 PM
I wonder which other 6 clubs supported Newcastle?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 21, 2023, 06:25:30 PM
Us and Man City are pretty much guaranteed i'd have thought. Also likely Bournemouth and Forest.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on November 21, 2023, 06:35:25 PM
I really hope it wasn't us - didn't we have to sell a stake in a club in the summer because of a potential conflict of interests in Europe.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on November 21, 2023, 06:47:45 PM
Why are we definitely one of the scab seven? Our feeder clubs are all bottom-feeders.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on November 21, 2023, 06:53:40 PM
Why are we definitely one of the scab seven? Our feeder clubs are all bottom-feeders.

Good question, I assumed it was the Scab Six + Newcastle.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 21, 2023, 07:02:25 PM
I might be way wrong, but Liverpool, Arsenal and Man Utd don't have a multi-club model (do they?!) so we'd be much more likely than them to be one of the sinful septet. Although they probably were as well, just to keep their hands in at the old doing evil thing they enjoy so much.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 21, 2023, 07:04:09 PM
I suspect that, were Newcastle to bring Neves in on a free or a much reduced fee, that'd put the cat amongst the pigeons a bit too much for them.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ian. on November 21, 2023, 07:04:35 PM
I’m going with the scab six for now until proven wrong. I can’t see us needing players in January from the lower leagues.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Man With A Stick on November 21, 2023, 07:05:14 PM
Brighton too I expect.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 21, 2023, 07:09:29 PM
It's not just about bringing in a Neves type in Jan, it's longer term as well. Including youth loans etc. We may want to think we're above voting to allow it but we clearly aren't with the price hikes, Lower Grounds etc. And who is more likely to vote for it, convenient 'baddies' in the Sky6 despite most of them having no affiliated clubs or us, Forest and Bournemouth that do have them?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 21, 2023, 07:12:30 PM
Deep down I'm sure we all know Villa will vote for whatever suits us. Purslow as good as said there were things he'd have supported once we were in a position to benefit from them.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 21, 2023, 07:18:30 PM

@martynziegler
NEW: The seven clubs that blocked ban on signing loan players from partner teams were (according to sources) Newcastle, Sheff Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Everton, Wolves, Forest.

Some other clubs angry that Saudi-owned Sheff Utd joined the opposition bloc.

https://twitter.com/martynziegler/status/1727041274987807230
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on November 21, 2023, 07:23:22 PM
Deep down I'm sure we all know Villa will vote for whatever suits us. Purslow as good as said there were things he'd have supported once we were in a position to benefit from them.
I agree. The only reason we weren't part of the scab 6 is because we weren't good enough to be invited at the time.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 21, 2023, 07:31:22 PM
Would be nice if that's right and it wasn't us. Wolves is a weird one unless the owners are planning to sell.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on November 21, 2023, 08:26:34 PM
Would be nice if that's right and it wasn't us. Wolves is a weird one unless the owners are planning to sell.

Feeder club for the barcodes.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on November 21, 2023, 08:33:52 PM
Would be nice if that's right and it wasn't us. Wolves is a weird one unless the owners are planning to sell.

Feeder club for the barcodes.

Some Sino-Arabian style stuff going on there. Fosun looking for a deal or investment?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on November 21, 2023, 09:02:11 PM
Everton just being spiteful after recent events?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on November 21, 2023, 09:36:25 PM
Everton just being spiteful after recent events?

Prospective new owners are multi-club wankers.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 22, 2023, 09:20:40 AM

@martynziegler
NEW: The seven clubs that blocked ban on signing loan players from partner teams were (according to sources) Newcastle, Sheff Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Everton, Wolves, Forest.

Some other clubs angry that Saudi-owned Sheff Utd joined the opposition bloc.

https://twitter.com/martynziegler/status/1727041274987807230


Burnley as well apparently.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Meanwood Villa on November 22, 2023, 09:43:27 AM
Everton just being spiteful after recent events?

Prospective new owners are multi-club wankers.

What does that make us?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rigadon on November 22, 2023, 10:25:51 AM
Everton just being spiteful after recent events?

Prospective new owners are multi-club wankers.

What does that make us?

Multi-club owners who didn't vote this through to benefit the multi-club wankers who will?

It's a blindingly obvious way to cheat FFP.  They shouldn't be asking the actual fucking clubs / nation states with vested interests whether it should be allowed or not.  Bizarre.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on November 22, 2023, 10:46:27 AM
There's a huge difference between what we're doing, ie having a network of smaller clubs around the world, where there's the possibility of exchanging youngsters both ways for their benefit and ours, and doing what Newcastle would like to do to game the FFP rules, ie sell a player for an inflated fee to a Saudi club, then loan in quality replacements for the square root of fuck all.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on November 22, 2023, 02:26:17 PM
The regulatory body can't come in soon enough.

Although you only have to look at what they did with the 5 substitute rule to think it's not over (they held the vote more than once and canvassed for votes until it passed).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on November 23, 2023, 01:47:02 AM
The regulatory body can't come in soon enough.

Although you only have to look at what they did with the 5 substitute rule to think it's not over (they held the vote more than once and canvassed for votes until it passed).

Exactly. Sheff Utd and Burnley won’t get a vote next year.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 20, 2023, 10:26:11 AM
Another £54 million into the holding company this week following £95 million the week before. Tidy.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dogtanian on December 20, 2023, 10:27:07 AM
Another £54 million into the holding company this week following £95 million the week before. Tidy.

They're expecting one hell of a mince pie bill then.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Demitri_C on December 20, 2023, 11:38:15 AM
Another £54 million into the holding company this week following £95 million the week before. Tidy.
Yep exciting times indeed
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on December 20, 2023, 11:42:22 AM
So £150 million for something ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on December 20, 2023, 11:53:06 AM
So £150 million for something ?

Carlton Palmer and Benni McCarthy
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dogtanian on December 20, 2023, 11:58:11 AM
So £150 million for something ?

Carlton Palmer and Benni McCarthy

With those funds, we could probably look at re-signing Bacuna, especially now we may be able to offer him Champions League football next season.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 20, 2023, 12:34:10 PM
So £150 million for something ?

Carlton Palmer and Benni McCarthy

Finally. Never too late. Can we also please sign Lineker, Juninho and Danny Blind?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on December 20, 2023, 12:49:20 PM
Slashing out 150M on a player that can play RB, DM, CF and as a backup GK.

Canny.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Tuscans on January 21, 2024, 05:20:33 PM
Does anyone with decent financial knowledge know what "Statement of capital following an allotment of shares" means? I was looking at NSWE on companies house and seen the sum of GBP 609,138,715 under Statement of capital following an allotment of shares filled on December 19th 2023. That figure has doubled since 2020.

What does that mean from a business and footballing side of things?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on January 21, 2024, 09:36:38 PM
Does anyone with decent financial knowledge know what "Statement of capital following an allotment of shares" means? I was looking at NSWE on companies house and seen the sum of GBP 609,138,715 under Statement of capital following an allotment of shares filled on December 19th 2023. That figure has doubled since 2020.

What does that mean from a business and footballing side of things?

It's just the company's total share capital after they've bunged some more money in.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Weedy on January 24, 2024, 08:27:22 PM
The 448th CIES Football Observatory Weekly Post presents the 50 clubs in the world with the most positive and negative transfer balances for non-academy players signed and transferred between 2014 and 2023.

We are 7th in the Losses league:

https://football-observatory.com/WeeklyPost448

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 24, 2024, 08:29:01 PM
And, let's be honest, if there's anyone who attracts everyone's attention when they speak, it's the CIES Football Observatory Weekly Post.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on January 24, 2024, 09:15:17 PM
The 448th CIES Football Observatory Weekly Post presents the 50 clubs in the world with the most positive and negative transfer balances for non-academy players signed and transferred between 2014 and 2023.

We are 7th in the Losses league:

At least we got value for money.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on January 24, 2024, 09:41:24 PM
And, let's be honest, if there's anyone who attracts everyone's attention when they speak, it's the CIES Football Observatory Weekly Post.

Especially when there's been 447 ones previously.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 25, 2024, 09:49:44 AM
What the fcuk is the point of it when it’s non academy players.  For whom we have realised around £160m in recent times.  Twats.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on February 14, 2024, 11:14:56 AM
Interview with Sawiris in the FT

I think you can read a few articles before you hit the paywall

https://www.ft.com/content/eb41e757-e6bc-495f-bdac-5e62fe66cbd9
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: artvandelay on February 14, 2024, 11:20:09 AM
“You get in democracies in Europe constant changes and all that,” he said. “I think Abu Dhabi offers stability and perfect governance.”

Seems like a nice bloke.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on February 14, 2024, 11:31:38 AM
Interview with Sawiris in the FT

I think you can read a few articles before you hit the paywall

https://www.ft.com/content/eb41e757-e6bc-495f-bdac-5e62fe66cbd9

Yeah, but you gotta register with Murdoch.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 14, 2024, 11:34:09 AM
Interview with Sawiris in the FT

I think you can read a few articles before you hit the paywall

https://www.ft.com/content/eb41e757-e6bc-495f-bdac-5e62fe66cbd9

Yeah, but you gotta register with Murdoch.

Murdoch?! The FT is owned by Nikkei.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on February 14, 2024, 11:37:49 AM
It's behind a pay wall.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on February 14, 2024, 11:39:56 AM
It's behind a pay wall.
A clever one, the usual tricks don't work.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on February 14, 2024, 11:41:30 AM
That comment about how football can ruin your weekend and week. Oh how I would have loved to have seen the rage firing of Gerrard!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 14, 2024, 11:45:56 AM
It's behind a pay wall.
A clever one, the usual tricks don't work.

https://archive.ph/nUqNE
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 14, 2024, 11:52:59 AM

“You get in democracies in Europe constant changes and all that,” he said. “I think Abu Dhabi offers stability and perfect governance.”


Seems like a nice bloke.


He means from a family office perspective. If you've got $8bn to protect, you don't want a load of *spits* socialists getting into power and whacking the tax rate up wherever your stash is held.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 14, 2024, 11:58:19 AM

“You get in democracies in Europe constant changes and all that,” he said. “I think Abu Dhabi offers stability and perfect governance.”


Seems like a nice bloke.


He means from a family office perspective. If you've got $8bn to protect, you don't want a load of *spits* socialists getting into power and whacking the tax rate up wherever your stash is held.

I don't think this is the stinging rebuttal you think it is!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 14, 2024, 12:10:01 PM
It wasn't meant to be!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on February 14, 2024, 12:11:31 PM
It's behind a pay wall.
A clever one, the usual tricks don't work.

https://archive.ph/nUqNE
Ta :)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on February 14, 2024, 12:16:17 PM
It wasn't meant to be!

Thr article says the Islamists targeted his family as Coptic Christians following Morsi coming in 2012, so probably a bit sensitive than most to sticky fingered governments.

The December investment cost £100m. That's quite a sum.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 14, 2024, 12:20:34 PM
£500m seems light as a value for us.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on February 14, 2024, 12:25:04 PM
£500m seems light as a value for us.

No idea really, but the Jaudis went for £315m and were in a real sticky spot at the time too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on February 14, 2024, 12:25:12 PM
£500m seems light as a value for us.

Does it? Still a bold increase on what they bought us for.

Actually, yeah, our squad is worth that alone.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on February 14, 2024, 12:35:41 PM
£500m seems light as a value for us.

Does it? Still a bold increase on what they bought us for.

Actually, yeah, our squad is worth that alone.

You then have to look at what they've pumped in since as well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on February 14, 2024, 12:37:39 PM
Comforting in a way, to read this:

Quote
“Anybody who does football and says this is a pure investment, in 95 per cent of the case he’s a liar,” Sawiris said. “It’s a passion. It’s addictive. And it can ruin your weekend and go into the following week.”

He said owning the club had helped change his perspective on what it takes to be successful in business and in sport. “You really come to the conclusion that attitude and work ethic beats talent any day.”
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on February 14, 2024, 12:40:13 PM
£500m seems light as a value for us.

Does it? Still a bold increase on what they bought us for.

Actually, yeah, our squad is worth that alone.

You then have to look at what they've pumped in since as well.

Something I heard about a lot when people like the BBC business reporters were talking about the Man Utd sale was that the rule of thumb for football club valuations was ‘5 x revenue’. That puts us at over a billion. But if 20% was bought for a hundred million, that puts us at half that. I’m surprised they sold 20%, I would have guessed it was 10.

I suspect that Atairos will be quite influential in the boardroom with 20%.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on February 14, 2024, 12:41:23 PM
£500m valuation at 2 and a bit times earnings, is that a fair valuation? I’ve no idea but getting £100m for 20% in V sports seems a good deal.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 14, 2024, 12:59:47 PM
Quote

Egypt’s richest man Nassef Sawiris considers breaking up his empire


Billionaire says options for OCI Group include selling off all assets and turning it into cash shell for new acquisitions

Nassef Sawiris is considering a radical overhaul of his chemicals and fertiliser empire that could include further breaking up his main holding and offloading its parts, after $7bn in asset sales over the past two months.

Egypt’s richest man, whose personal assets include English football club Aston Villa, said he was looking into a complete transformation of the business that forms the core of his fortune, Dutch-listed chemicals group OCI.

One option includes turning it into a cash-shell company that pursues acquisitions in new industries, the 63-year-old billionaire told the Financial Times in a rare interview.

“We’re evaluating what we want to do, not just with the money [from the asset sales] but as a team,” he said. “And maybe OCI stays with a piece or two pieces and it becomes a cash cow, and becomes a machine for further investment. We’re quite open-minded.”

Speaking from his offices overlooking London’s Berkeley Square, he added: “It doesn’t have to be fertiliser, doesn’t have to be chemicals. If all of OCI is sold, the core team . . . know that we are serial entrepreneurs and we’re going to do something.” 

The comments follow a flurry of deal activity at OCI in response to pressure from US activist investor Jeff Ubben, as well as within Sawiris’ NNS Group family office.

Sawiris, whose wealth Forbes estimates at more than $8bn, has quietly amassed a broad portfolio of investments through NSS that includes Aston Villa as well as stakes in German sportswear group Adidas and Denmark-headquartered café chain Joe & The Juice.

But OCI, where he holds an almost 40 per cent stake and his family a further 14 per cent, has been his focus for much of the past year.

OCI’s board in May approved a strategic review of all business lines as well as its listing venue of the Netherlands after Ubben bought a 5 per cent stake and pressed the group to explore options, including asset sales to improve shareholder returns.

By the end of the year OCI had agreed to offload two fertiliser holdings for about $3.6bn apiece, to the Abu Dhabi National Oil Company and Koch Industries of the US.

Sawiris said Ubben, who was “not hostile at all”, had written a letter explaining how OCI’s market value was far less than the sum of its parts.

“So I told him, actually, the letter makes sense,” he said, adding that “ultimately we went along with Jeff’s recommendation. Within six months we had executed those two transactions, and there’s more to come.”

“We always say that we are builders, not holders,” Sawiris said. “We build assets. But if this asset is worth more to another party than it’s worth in the context of OCI or the public company or of myself, then that is the more deserving owner.”

Ubben told the FT that Sawiris and OCI had been penalised for investing in cleaner technologies. “It’s a really interesting, cautionary tale,” he said, adding that his relationship with Sawiris was “collaborative”.

“He’s all about what is the lowest-risk, highest-reward path and I don’t know why the market hasn’t figured that out.”

Shares in OCI have risen 50 per cent since they fell to a multiyear low before the fertiliser deals in December.

Now investors are watching to see what OCI will do with its methanol business and a low-carbon ammonia project in Texas. Alongside its fourth-quarter earnings on Wednesday, the group said it would use the proceeds of its transactions to reduce debt and distribute at least $3bn to shareholders this year. 

The businessman is the youngest son of the late Onsi Sawiris, who founded a construction company in the 1950s and built it over decades into a large multinational corporation now called Orascom Construction.

As the business grew, the family sought ways to diversify its activities, entering the cement industry and expanding operations from Egypt into other emerging markets.

His two brothers also brought the family into new industries — the eldest, Naguib, built a telecoms empire before selling it and now invests in gold mines, while middle child Samih has invested in the tourism industry.

Orascom sold off its cement business to Lafarge in 2007 in a €10.2bn deal under which Sawiris gained a sizeable stake in the French group as well as two board seats.

The Orascom assets sold in the deal included a plant in Syria that ultimately led to hefty fines for Lafarge due to providing payments to Isis, as well as a stake in a North Korean state-owned cement plant.

The Lafarge transaction gave Sawiris a front-row seat for the French group’s 2015 merger with Swiss rival Holcim that created the world’s largest cement company. Sawiris, who had been one of the largest shareholders in the merged LafargeHolcim, sold out in 2019 after years of watching the combination fail to deliver on the promise of the tie-up.

He then shifted his attention to fertiliser, with the remainder of OCI focusing on the chemicals business.

“There is only one thing in common” between the cement and fertiliser sectors, he said. “Cheap energy helps both industries. But cement is a local business — fertiliser and chemicals are global.”

The fertiliser industry has come under scrutiny for its heavy carbon footprint. Sawiris said OCI was pursuing production of “blue ammonia”, which can vastly reduce emissions.

Sawiris recently redomiciled NNS from Luxembourg to Abu Dhabi, choosing the emirate, where he is a rare outsider to have been granted citizenship, as a base for its combination of “English law without English weather”.

“You get in democracies in Europe constant changes and all that,” he said. “I think Abu Dhabi offers stability and perfect governance.”

However, he is sensitive to the suggestion that his family is drifting away from Egypt. The Sawiris, who are Coptic Christians, were targeted with tax grabs and a travel ban under former Islamist president Mohamed Morsi, who swept to power in 2012 in the aftermath of the Arab uprisings but was later deposed in a coup.

Orascom remains in the family, held separately from OCI, and is Egypt’s largest private employer with more than 60,000 local staff. The construction company is one of the leading businesses contracted to build the mega-projects that have been a hallmark of President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi’s regime.

From London and Abu Dhabi, Sawiris is building NNS into a holding company that can manage his various investments — including Aston Villa.

He and US billionaire Wes Edens, co-founder of Fortress Investment Group, acquired a 55 per cent stake in the club for £30mn in 2018, rescuing it from financial crisis.

A year later it was promoted to the lucrative Premier League and Sawiris has since expanded his stable of sports assets under his and Edens’ V Sports, including a stake in Portuguese club Vitória.

The group announced in December that US investor Atairos had become a minority partner in V Sports, with people familiar with the matter saying the roughly 20 per cent stake valued Aston Villa at more than £500mn.

While Sawiris’ bet appears to be paying off, he insisted he was not in Aston Villa for the money.

“Anybody who does football and says this is a pure investment, in 95 per cent of the case he’s a liar,” Sawiris said. “It’s a passion. It’s addictive. And it can ruin your weekend and go into the following week.”

He said owning the club had helped change his perspective on what it takes to be successful in business and in sport. “You really come to the conclusion that attitude and work ethic beats talent any day.”

His interest in sports extends beyond club ownership. He is a top shareholder in Adidas and a member of its supervisory board.

The German sportswear brand is recovering from its worst crisis in three decades following the termination of its highly profitable collaboration with Kanye West in 2022 after the US rapper and fashion designer made a series of antisemitic remarks.

Kanye is “a talented genius” who “unequivocally made unacceptable statements”, Sawiris said. “He apologised. It’s a very sensitive topic.”

New Adidas chief executive Bjørn Gulden has the company back on track, according to Sawiris. “By 2025, you’re going to see a company that is very resilient, sports-focused, and that gives stability to the earnings.”

While Sawiris is nearing another professional crossroads amid the strategic review at OCI, he insists that no matter the conclusion he will not be stepping back.

“Let’s put it this way,” he said. “We are not retiring.”
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on February 14, 2024, 02:03:02 PM
£500m seems light as a value for us.

Does it? Still a bold increase on what they bought us for.

Actually, yeah, our squad is worth that alone.

You then have to look at what they've pumped in since as well.

Something I heard about a lot when people like the BBC business reporters were talking about the Man Utd sale was that the rule of thumb for football club valuations was ‘5 x revenue’. That puts us at over a billion. But if 20% was bought for a hundred million, that puts us at half that. I’m surprised they sold 20%, I would have guessed it was 10.

I suspect that Atairos will be quite influential in the boardroom with 20%.

They don't have a seat on the board I don't think? Ownership/control is distinct. It's a sizeable sum though, not just a speculative see what happens sort of investment.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on February 14, 2024, 02:26:43 PM
£500m seems light as a value for us.

Does it? Still a bold increase on what they bought us for.

Actually, yeah, our squad is worth that alone.

You then have to look at what they've pumped in since as well.

Something I heard about a lot when people like the BBC business reporters were talking about the Man Utd sale was that the rule of thumb for football club valuations was ‘5 x revenue’. That puts us at over a billion. But if 20% was bought for a hundred million, that puts us at half that. I’m surprised they sold 20%, I would have guessed it was 10.

I suspect that Atairos will be quite influential in the boardroom with 20%.

They don't have a seat on the board I don't think? Ownership/control is distinct. It's a sizeable sum though, not just a speculative see what happens sort of investment.

Indeed they may not be physically on the board, but they’d still have to sign off and pony up for any major investments, is what I meant.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 14, 2024, 03:29:53 PM
Interesting interview in the FT with Nasser, he has been actively reorganising his business interests and has made some disposals.
He said his involvement in Villa is not for money and said “it’s a passion it’s addictive and it can  ruin your weekend and into the next week “
I think we all know how he feels.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on February 14, 2024, 03:42:26 PM
Interesting interview in the FT with Nasser, he has been actively reorganising his business interests and has made some disposals.
He said his involvement in Villa is not for money and said “it’s a passion it’s addictive and it can  ruin your weekend and into the next week “
I think we all know how he feels.

Yeah, we’ve all read it. Lol.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Demitri_C on February 14, 2024, 04:25:23 PM
Preach nas!! Welcome to being a villa fan 😂
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 14, 2024, 09:22:13 PM
I saw this thread updated and just assumed Nas had done his ACL and Wes was out for a while with his hamstring.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mrfuse on February 14, 2024, 10:47:59 PM
I saw this thread updated and just assumed Nas had done his ACL and Wes was out for a while with his hamstring.

Made me chuckle.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Beard82 on February 14, 2024, 11:19:37 PM
Interesting interview in the FT with Nasser, he has been actively reorganising his business interests and has made some disposals.
He said his involvement in Villa is not for money and said “it’s a passion it’s addictive and it can  ruin your weekend and into the next week “
I think we all know how he feels.
It must be a bit odd owning a club and resisting the temptation to lose your shit over players you bought that fuck up.  Hell my mother in law still reminds me over what they spent on my and my wife’s wedding - imagine what it would be like having spent 30m on a center back built like a wardrobe and about as mobile.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: passport1 on March 16, 2024, 04:09:05 PM
Not sure what, if any, impact this situation has on our man .

https://ibb.co/v3XkXC7
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: BC54 VFC on March 16, 2024, 04:13:18 PM
Not sure what, if any, impact this situation has on our man .

https://ibb.co/v3XkXC7
Depends upon where the majority of his investments are domiciled.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 16, 2024, 04:13:21 PM
There's a reason he lives in London. I doubt he has much tied up in Egyptian pounds.
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