Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Dinas_Caerdydd on January 05, 2024, 02:32:00 PM
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We're looking to bring Bogarde on loan till end of season so they say
thoughts on his strengths . decent player ? OK for championship football etc ?
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I really could not comment as not seen that much of him.
But if he is from us then he is going to be half decent i believe
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He's very quick.
He can play CB, RB, CDM, so is versatile, but seems to prefer CDM of late.
He's 6'1", comfortable on the ball, can pick a pass, can break up play, has good energy, & likes to drive forward with the ball at his feet from CDM.
He's highly rated at Villa, but with all youngsters, he's far from the finished article & is still a bit raw all round the edges.
But physically, especially with his rapid speed, he is pretty decent, so with the rest of his skills, he should be half decent & get better as time progresses.
Weirdly, I think it was Joey Barton who has got the best out of him at Bristol Rovers so far, but he was mostly in defensive mode.
If he can get a loan to a club that play possession football, we may see a more creative role from him as a deep laying playmaker.
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Might be better to check on a Bristol Rovers forum as he's had a couple of loan spells there, so they've seen more of him recently than we have in our reserves.
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We're looking to bring Bogarde on loan till end of season so they say
thoughts on his strengths . decent player ? OK for championship football etc ?
Is your keyboard broken Dinas? Tsk!
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Sunderland are meant to be in for him as well.
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Never mind.
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A non-Villan starts a player thread that, who knows, may grow to 100+ pages (50 if you're Legion). Unintentionally ballsy, fair fucks.
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A mate of mine is a Gashead and says he is skilful and decent on the ball, as expected. He has been pleasantly surprised by how well he has coped with the physicality of League 1 I have no idea if this means he is ready for the championship.
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A mate of mine is a Gashead and says he is skilful and decent on the ball, as expected. He has been pleasantly surprised by how well he has coped with the physicality of League 1 I have no idea if this means he is ready for the championship.
Pretty much exactly what I hear from my Rovers mate.He wanted them to keep him for the season. An upgrade to the championship sounds like a positive for the player and us.
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some interesting replys
Diolch
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I thought it was poor that Bogarde wasn't with a championship team this season.
To have him at a League one side and not even get a game is ridiculous for such a talented player!
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some interesting replys
Diolch
Paid â becso
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Whose coat is this jacket?
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I saw him play for Bristol Rovers at Forest Green. Looked very calm on the ball and able to handle the physicality of men's football.
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The problem with Bogarde is where to play him.
Big and strong enough to play centre-back; quick enough to play full-back; skilful enough to play it out in the Bouba position.
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The problem with Bogarde is where to play him.
Big and strong enough to play centre-back; quick enough to play full-back; skilful enough to play it out in the Bouba position.
Sounds like nice problems to have. How highly rated is he?
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The problem with Bogarde is where to play him.
Big and strong enough to play centre-back; quick enough to play full-back; skilful enough to play it out in the Bouba position.
Sounds like nice problems to have. How highly rated is he?
Yep, that sort of utility player seems like a good fit under Emery as well.
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The problem with Bogarde is where to play him.
Big and strong enough to play centre-back; quick enough to play full-back; skilful enough to play it out in the Bouba position.
Sounds like nice problems to have. How highly rated is he?
Very, from what I have heard.
That versatility to go along with his physical & technical aspects is a key factor in why I cant see him being part of the fire sale of our youngsters in recent times.
But I could be wrong, of course...
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We do have a role as Kamara's understudy available. Dendoncker will go (probably in the summer) and Iroegbunam hasn't been fancied enough to get many opportunities.
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We do have a role as Kamara's understudy available. Dendoncker will go (probably in the summer) and Iroegbunam hasn't been fancied enough to get many opportunities.
He's been injured for most of the season and has been on the bench pretty regularly since he got fit so I think it's a bit unfair to say he's not been fancied, lets see how things look with him by the summer.
I can certainly see Bogarde coming into the discussion there soon though, always looked a very good player in the youth teams and his time in league football will have helped him a lot.
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Bogarde's probably a better fit for that role though. Iroegbunam seems more of a box-to-box type whereas Bogarde being able to play at centre back or midfield means he'll be able to drop into the back 3 when we're in possession like how Kamara has done.
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Bogarde's probably a better fit for that role though. Iroegbunam seems more of a box-to-box type whereas Bogarde being able to play at centre back or midfield means he'll be able to drop into the back 3 when we're in possession like how Kamara has done.
I think Iroegbunam is a perfect backup to Kamara tbh. They are very similar sorts of players.
Good close control, good passers of the ball, good at breaking up play & tackling, but most importantly for their position, can drive forward with the ball at their feet & take the ball from defence to attack.
I think Bogarde could do that too, but he has mostly been used as a "destroyer" in Joey Bartons Bristol Rovers. I think he could become a deep laying playmaker if he were to play in a team that passes the ball a lot.
Like Villa, for example...
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Bogarde's probably a better fit for that role though. Iroegbunam seems more of a box-to-box type whereas Bogarde being able to play at centre back or midfield means he'll be able to drop into the back 3 when we're in possession like how Kamara has done.
I think Iroegbunam is a perfect backup to Kamara tbh. They are very similar sorts of players.
Good close control, good passers of the ball, good at breaking up play & tackling, but most importantly for their position, can drive forward with the ball at their feet & take the ball from defence to attack.
I think Bogarde could do that too, but he has mostly been used as a "destroyer" in Joey Bartons Bristol Rovers. I think he could become a deep laying playmaker if he were to play in a team that passes the ball a lot.
Like Villa, for example...
Where Tim most reminds me of Kamara is the whole 'telescopic leg' thing where they just seem to be able to extend a foot out and knock the ball away when it looks like they've been 'beaten'. It's a pretty rare skill and is a big part of why Kamara is so effective at breaking up play.
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Where Tim most reminds me of Kamara is the whole 'telescopic leg' thing where they just seem to be able to extend a foot out and knock the ball away when it looks like they've been 'beaten'. It's a pretty rare skill and is a big part of why Kamara is so effective at breaking up play.
Agreed.
I really like Iroegbunam.
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What squad number is Bogarde?
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What squad number is Bogarde?
Dont think he has one...
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What squad number is Bogarde?
Dont think he has one...
He had one last year, I think it was in the 50s.
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Sorry, for the kids, the report says he played against Sutton the other night and I was interested in which one he was?
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Sorry, for the kids, the report says he played against Sutton the other night and I was interested in which one he was?
Ah ok, he was listed as 8 on the club facebook post.
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Ta.
He played at the base of a midfield diamond, I thought he shielded the ball very well, took it in some tight spots comfortably enough and kept the ball moving well. Probably a little unfair given where he was playing but I thought he was a little unambitious on the ball, plenty of times he had space to drive into and he did the easier thing and laid it off.
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Big and strong enough to play centre-back; quick enough to play full-back; skilful enough to play it out in the Bouba position.
The oft-forgotten verse of 'So Macho'.
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What squad number is Bogarde?
Dont think he has one...
He had one last year, I think it was in the 50s.
You are correct.
According to the Premier League site, he had 52 last year.
No number this year on the Premier League site or the official Villa site.
Although the official Villa site didnt show one for last year either. And they havent updated the like likes of Kellyman, Proctor, etc on the official Villa site this year either.
On the Premier League site, we have Marshall (42), Proctor (78), Feeney (59), O'Reilly (58), Iroegbunam (47) & Kellyman (71) all registered.
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Close to finalising a new long-term contract. https://x.com/J_Tanswell/status/1821606834563903532
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Great news!
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https://x.com/JayVtid/status/1821595374353801654
Highlights from last night. Played really well.
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See why Emery likes him - calm, passes the ball out of defence well, happy to carry it forward and pick a pass.
He's a bit Torresy.
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Lovely pass inside the fullback for Bailey to run onto. Very comfortable on the ball.
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https://x.com/JayVtid/status/1821595374353801654
Highlights from last night. Played really well.
Crikey, he looks excellent.
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Thanks for sharing, he’s definitely got some Torres about him. Looks like one for the future, is he right or left footed?
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A really exciting prospect. Let's get him a good loan and bring him back for another look next season. Hopefully a Championship club will fancy him for a year.
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I've always said this lad looks a very real prospect. Whatever the game he's always looked like he fits in & shows great composure & confidence on the ball. Needs to be playing at least at the top half of the championship where he gets regular games.
Only concern is I'm not sure what his best position is.
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Nottingham Forest wanted to buy him so you would think a bottom half Premier League team or top half Championship team would want him for a season. John Townley reckons the plan is to keep him around the first team squad though.
He's right footed, Anthenagin. Me too John.
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Would definitely keep him around unless Carlos stays or we get a top quality replacement for him.
Don't we need a quota of 4 academy players for CL?
philogene
Ramsay
Archer
Bogarde
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Interestingly he sees himself as a defensive midfielder. Give him minutes but he looks accomplished as a right sided centre back u under Unai's style.
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Seemed to make the play at the back more than Torres they were together last night. Very accomplished. Was muscled off the ball on one occasion, if I recall, though he may have recovered.
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That wasn't when he slipped, was it?
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Nottingham Forest wanted to buy him so you would think a bottom half Premier League team or top half Championship team would want him for a season. John Townley reckons the plan is to keep him around the first team squad though.
He's right footed, Anthenagin. Me too John.
Thanks OCD.
He certainly looks more like a first team prospect than being used to offset PSR. Interesting about what his best position is because I think he was midfield at Walsall and yet CB in the Athletico game, where he looked assured. I can’t remember him sticking out for me in the Walsall game. That’s my reflection albeit over only two games.
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He played well against Athletic Bilbao.
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Through his development he's been used in both midfield and central defence, which is ideal these days with defenders expected to be comfortable on the ball and be able to play out when being pressured. The ball inside their fullback for Bailey to run out showed what that gives you.
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That wasn't when he slipped, was it?
Possibly, couldn't see that clearly. Looked like a shoulder to shoulder challenge that he came off worst from.
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If we are going to keep him around, his versatility will be very useful to the squad...
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I would definately keep him around
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Does he count as homegrown? Or have we already included him in the count?
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Bogarde training with 1st team. I have a feeling he might be on bench weekend. Think unai rates him.
I have to say i was very impressed in pre season. He looks a talent
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Does he count as homegrown? Or have we already included him in the count?
The four "locally trained" for European purposes need to have been on the club's books for at least three years between the ages of 15-21. He's 20 and joined our Academy in September 2020. So all good.
However I think he wouldn't count, as anyone born after Jan 1st 2001 doesn't need to be in the 25 player list. So he would count, he just doesn't need to. Come to think of it, I'm not sure we'll have any players who meet the "four locally trained" rule who we'd need to include in the list of 25?
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Does he count as homegrown? Or have we already included him in the count?
The four "locally trained" for European purposes need to have been on the club's books for at least three years between the ages of 15-21. He's 20 and joined our Academy in September 2020. So all good.
However I think he wouldn't count, as anyone born after Jan 1st 2001 doesn't need to be in the 25 player list. So he would count, he just doesn't need to. Come to think of it, I'm not sure we'll have any players who meet the "four locally trained" rule who we'd need to include in the list of 25?
Isn't it 01/01/2003 for this season? Doesn't change your point though.
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Does he count as homegrown? Or have we already included him in the count?
The four "locally trained" for European purposes need to have been on the club's books for at least three years between the ages of 15-21. He's 20 and joined our Academy in September 2020. So all good.
However I think he wouldn't count, as anyone born after Jan 1st 2001 doesn't need to be in the 25 player list. So he would count, he just doesn't need to. Come to think of it, I'm not sure we'll have any players who meet the "four locally trained" rule who we'd need to include in the list of 25?
Isn't it 01/01/2003 for this season? Doesn't change your point though.
You're almost certainly correct and I was almost certainly looking at an out-of-date article.
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Romano
EXCL: 20 year old talent Lamare Bogarde signs new deal at Aston Villa today as part of long term project.
Nottingham Forest had bid rejected for Bogarde in June and he’s now gonna sign new deal at #AVFC.
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Great news. He certainly is a talent. You would imagine he will be loaned to championship
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Unless he's ready to be that right centre back/right back option once Diego Carlos goes.
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This seems to have slipped by without being mentioned - https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2024/august/20/bogarde-signs-new-contract/.
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Great news
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Good news, wonder if he’ll get a loan.
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This seems to have slipped by without being mentioned - https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2024/august/20/bogarde-signs-new-contract/.
Except in the post about 3 before this.
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This seems to have slipped by without being mentioned - https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2024/august/20/bogarde-signs-new-contract/.
Except in the post about 3 before this.
That was Romano posting that it was going to happen whereas I was posting the official announcement on avfc.
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Good for him. After the pre-season he had, it's well deserved.
I wonder if he'll see some game-time if the move for the Dutch lad can't go through due to money being too tight?
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I wonder how much Forest offered for him. Probably something whack like £4.44m
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It was Reported at the time that they had offered £4M...
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To quote Mark Radcliffe, "What a good guesser I am".
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It was Reported at the time that they had offered £4M...
That would have been such a poor deal. Thankfully we have some sense these days compared to previous owners
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Especially as he has since shown some real ability in pre-season to add to the thoughts that he was a decent prospect.
I would like to see more of him this season in the Villa side. Maybe start off in the League Cup & go from there.
We need to start keeping some of these youngsters around to bulk out the squad for the busy season we are going to have this year.
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Great news.
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It doesn't look like Diego Carlos is going to Fulham so if we have to keep him around, that might mean a loan move might be best for him until we get him a move.
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Do we think he will feature for the first team this season ?
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I think he might.
He played well against decent level opposition in pre season.
We need cover & competition at CB, RB & CDM & he covers all of those positions with pace, technical ability & physicality.
Didn't a local journalist mention that he will be sticking around too? Tanswell?
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That will be mean no move for geertruides then which im gutted about
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That will be mean no move for geertruides then which im gutted about
If that is the case, the I will be too as I have been calling for signing Geertruida both this summer & last...
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Congrats to him on making his debut.
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Yep, played well. Looks like a very good prospect.
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Started well and faded, but definite promise.
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Yep, played well. Looks like a very good prospect.
You must have watched a completely different game to me.
I think he looked way out of his depth and I'm seriously worried about our RB situation.
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Steady and shaky in equal measure today. Understandable given his age lack of experience.
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I think young Humphrey will be a hero in seasons to come.
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He dove into a couple of tackles but never lost confidence in himself. He didn’t hide or drop off, which is good to see. I thought his first half was decent enough and he struggled later into the second half.. naturally.
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Yep, played well. Looks like a very good prospect.
You must have watched a completely different game to me.
I think he looked way out of his depth and I'm seriously worried about our RB situation.
Jeez.
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He dove into a couple of tackles but never lost confidence in himself. He didn’t hide or drop off, which is good to see. I thought his first half was decent enough and he struggled later into the second half.. naturally.
Agreed. I thought it was a strange decision to play him at right back as his strength is his coolness in central defence. Maybe Unai wanted to test him by throwing him in the deep end, no idea. Delighted for him to make his debut, we need to bring the youngsters through so that we can go out and spend on the very top players.
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Yep, played well. Looks like a very good prospect.
You must have watched a completely different game to me.
I think he looked way out of his depth and I'm seriously worried about our RB situation.
Jeez.
Jeez what? You thought he played well and you think we are fine at RB?
He isn't a RB for a start and that would explain.both why he didn't play well and why I'm concerned about that position.
He was our worst player today, which is no surprise given where he played.
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He's capable at both right back and centre back. Thought he did well for 60 minutes then needed taking off. Emery was a few minutes late on that one. A better option than moving Konsa to right back, although I'm not saying there won't be occasions where that's the case.
Nedeljkovic did well when he came on.
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For a 20 year old making his first appearance above the 3rd division he was ok.
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For a 20 year old making his first appearance above the 3rd division he was ok.
And my point is that I am concerned we even have to play such a player in the PL..We qualified for CL and we have to play inexperienced kids in important league games.
We are very light in defence in terms of quality and experience.
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I wonder what Kane Kessler-Hayden makes of it all. Waiting for his chance for months/years and in the space of a couple of weeks, two players younger than him get starts at RB.
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For a 20 year old making his first appearance above the 3rd division he was ok.
And my point is that I am concerned we even have to play such a player in the PL..We qualified for CL and we have to play inexperienced kids in important league games.
We are very light in defence in terms of quality and experience.
You're right, the kids are just for fattening up and selling for pure profit.
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A good way to get them to the level rather than constantly paying £40m for a new player is for them to play in an Emery team. As fans we either want youngsters coming through or we don't.
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Congratulations lamare on your debut. You did well under tough circumstances. I think you are going to improve significantly as season goes on
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For a 20 year old making his first appearance above the 3rd division he was ok.
And my point is that I am concerned we even have to play such a player in the PL..We qualified for CL and we have to play inexperienced kids in important league games.
We are very light in defence in terms of quality and experience.
You're right, the kids are just for fattening up and selling for pure profit.
That's pretty much the model we are forced into these days.
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He was OK today and against a shitty bitty side like that, it's fantastic experience gained. He seems to have the vision of what he wants to do, but has yet to gain the speed of thought to do it (thought there was 5-6 passes like this). It'll come.
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I don't really see the problem with that method. Players like Grealish or Ramsey don't come along every year, and it's better to be able to turn a profit from out academy than just have a bunch of kids disappear to lower leagues once we release them.
If any of them are good enough they'll show it and get their chance.
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I don't really see the problem with that method. Players like Grealish or Ramsey don't come along every year, and it's better to be able to turn a profit from out academy than just have a bunch of kids disappear to lower leagues once we release them.
If any of them are good enough they'll show it and get their chance.
The problem is that if we have to rely on playing players like Bogarde against the likes of Liverpool or Bayern, we are buggered.
We really needed a new RB so we could have Cash as a back up.
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Hes only 20. Ugo had good and bad moments in his first few years before really becoming consistent about 1995 onwards.
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Unai thinks he's good enough, and as a manager he has just about enough credit in the bank that i'll go with his judgement.
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Unai thinks he's good enough, and as a manager he has just about enough credit in the bank that i'll go with his judgement.
Unai gave him an opportunity. I doubt we will see him at RB again anytime soon.
But if you think Bogarde shows we do not need to sign another quality right back then I respectfully disagree with you
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Im delighted to see youngsters given a go. We need more of it. Bogarde is obviously better at cb but unai sees something in him at rb. He kind of reminds me of the wan bassaka
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Hes only 20. Ugo had good and bad moments in his first few years before really becoming consistent about 1995 onwards.
Yes, but that has nothing to do with being played out of position in the Champions League. Bogarde at RB would be eaten alive in the CL, or against top PL opponents.
Anyway,.I've said what I mean and that is that we are weak at RB and needed to strengthen. If people think otherwise then that's fine too. I think they are wrong.
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Time will tell if we fucked up or not, i'm not writing off a 20 year old after 1 game is all. And I like youngsters coming through.
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Time will tell if we fucked up or not, i'm not writing off a 20 year old after 1 game is all. And I like youngsters coming through.
Totally agree Peter. Good post 👍
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Time will tell if we fucked up or not, i'm not writing off a 20 year old after 1 game is all. And I like youngsters coming through.
I never wrote him off at all. I just don't think he is anywhere near ready yet to be playing for a top 4 club. He may well be eventually, but not yet.
We need quality players right now and Bogarde for me is one for the future.
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Sounds like Emery plans on involving a few of the U21's this season, which is a good thing.
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Im delighted to see youngsters given a go. We need more of it. Bogarde is obviously better at cb but unai sees something in him at rb. He kind of reminds me of the wan bassaka
Sometimes a coach will drop a player in another position as part of his education. I think that's what happened today. Bogarde, as a right sided central defender will now have a lot more respect and understanding of what his right back is up against. I love to see our youngsters thrown in the first team, what I hate is when they are thrown in with the second eleven for a pointless League Cup game.
Rotation will be key this season.
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Sounds like Emery plans on involving a few of the U21's this season, which is a good thing.
Oh really you think? That can only be a positive not just thing youngsters but help getting bigger feea to help with FFP
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Sounds like Emery plans on involving a few of the U21's this season, which is a good thing.
He has no choice. FFP has screwed us. Which is most certainly not a good thing.
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Was surprised to see him in the starting lineup, and I assumed he’d be playing centre-back, so was again surprised he was on the right.
He has areas he needs to work at, he lost the ball a bit too much with his passimg and with more experience he might have stopped their goal-scoring attack.
But great to see him get a chance and it’s early days and we will see him improve for sure.
I imagine there are some mouthy I-know-better types already on his case, but he got nothing but support from us in the ground at his team mates.
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Only way he becomes good enough is playing, and being coached by Emery helps. Constraints mean we can't have two £40m players for every position, so i'm happy giving a youngster a go. Every player was a raw youngster once, the likes of Foden and Palmer only grew the more they played as a couple of easy examples. We'll know soon enough if he is good enough or not.
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Unai thinks he's good enough, and as a manager he has just about enough credit in the bank that i'll go with his judgement.
Unai gave him an opportunity. I doubt we will see him at RB again anytime soon.
But if you think Bogarde shows we do not need to sign another quality right back then I respectfully disagree with you
Well I agree with you, I hope we don't see him at right back again either. I'ts just bizarre why we didn't sign a right back its been a problem position for some time.
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Was surprised to see him in the starting lineup, and I assumed he’d be playing centre-back, so was again surprised he was on the right.
He has areas he needs to work at, he lost the ball a bit too much with his passimg and with more experience he might have stopped their goal-scoring attack.
But great to see him get a chance and it’s early days and we will see him improve for sure.
I imagine there are some mouthy I-know-better types already on his case, but he got nothing but support from us in the ground at his team mates.
Wow. Having a go at fellow Villa fans.with the "I'm a better fan than you bollocks".
Calling people mouthy for having a different point of view?
Nice.
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I don't really see the problem with that method. Players like Grealish or Ramsey don't come along every year, and it's better to be able to turn a profit from out academy than just have a bunch of kids disappear to lower leagues once we release them.
If any of them are good enough they'll show it and get their chance.
The problem is that if we have to rely on playing players like Bogarde against the likes of Liverpool or Bayern, we are buggered.
We really needed a new RB so we could have Cash as a back up.
I 100% agree with you. If we have to play an untested 20 year old, it's better to do it against Leicester than against Bayern. And obviously I'd rather we didn't have to do it at all. (I mean literally have to because we have no other options)
RB was the one position I really wanted to see us buy someone for this summer, and now we're looking at a choice between an 18 year old and a 20 year old with about 90 minutes of Prem experience each. We don't even seem to be able to move Konsa out there at the moment.
Anyway, my point was about fattening up the academy players to sell for profits. Some people still like the romantic idea of having kids come up through the ranks and make it into the first team, which I understand, but the reality is most of them won't be good enough to stay, especially at the level we're at now. So if Bogarde or anyone else can get some minutes under their belt and net us 15-20 mil next summer, clear profit, then I don't see the problem with that.
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Thought he did okay, should have been better for their goal, should have been further up the field when Konsa had the ball, should have moved it quicker and more purposefully but he did well defensively and all in all, not bad
Glad he’s had a chance and made the most of it, hopefully we see more of this strong batch of kids
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I thought it was a decent debut. He’s a talented player as is Ned. Of courses there is a risk throwing in kids to PL level action but he’s got to learn and quickly. Emery clearly thinks he can play at this level or he’d be out on loan or sold.
And he got a little prostate exam during his first game shared by SJM
https://x.com/jmcginn7/status/1829950030498971918?s=46
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That's McGinn getting the prostate exam.
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Unai thinks he's good enough, and as a manager he has just about enough credit in the bank that i'll go with his judgement.
Unai gave him an opportunity. I doubt we will see him at RB again anytime soon.
But if you think Bogarde shows we do not need to sign another quality right back then I respectfully disagree with you
Well I agree with you, I hope we don't see him at right back again either. I'ts just bizarre why we didn't sign a right back its been a problem position for some time.
Are you really judging him off one game?
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Bogarde had a decent enough game but he did make a few mistakes but he's a 20 year-old playing out of position in his first Premier League game so that was to be expected.
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You're right, the kids are just for fattening up and selling for pure profit.
That's pretty much the model we are forced into these days.
I thought the days of fattening calves up were over when we sold Jack.
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The said in the commentary it was also his first league start since the start of the year.
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And he got a little prostate exam during his first game shared by SJM
https://x.com/jmcginn7/status/1829950030498971918?s=46
I assume they borrowed one of the Leicester rugby players, the rugger buggers enjoy that sort of thing.
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He wasn’t bad throughout is the best compliment I can give him. Lots of sloppy stuff, lots of poor decision making too. But then, a few others were culpable of that too. Hopefully he’ll learn from the experience. Ned’ is younger and for me better and more reliable in that position.
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Interesting that a Cardiff fan started this thread.
Even for half a season it would've been really good for him to go there.
League 1 to prem is a gigantic leap. He had a decent first half and then struggled against more direct option.
Really wouldn't want to see him playing in the CL at this point. League cup at Wycombe will be his next outing you'd imagine.
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He was also being played out of position which you have to take into consideration too. I thought he did well first half.
Needs to improve on his passing though
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Do you think fans of other clubs moan like this when their youngsters are given a chance?
He's a young lad, given an opportunity, after being given a new contract. The Premier League is tough but we won yesterday, and he did ok. Mistakes, yes, but that's to be expected. He will learn and get better and be more ready the more he plays.
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He did OK for the most part, clearly not a right back though.
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He was also being played out of position which you have to take into consideration too. I thought he did well first half.
Needs to improve on his passing though
I thought his passing was his main strength pre season, like better already than many of the first team and the defending was the area which needed testing properly. Perhaps there were nerves yesterday, understandable. I certainly think he has it in him to be a PL level player, at least.
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Was he really ‘out of position’ given Unais style of play where in reality, we often play with 3 CH’s and one full back pushing on
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Yep, played well. Looks like a very good prospect.
You must have watched a completely different game to me.
I think he looked way out of his depth and I'm seriously worried about our RB situation.
Jeez.
Jeez what? You thought he played well and you think we are fine at RB?
He isn't a RB for a start and that would explain.both why he didn't play well and why I'm concerned about that position.
He was our worst player today, which is no surprise given where he played.
Jeez, you ain't half hard to please.
Bogarde played his debut in an unfamiliar position. As it turns out, this was a perfect game for him to debut in because - until they brought on their wide sub - Leicester were poor and Bogarde was given the time to play himself in. He acquitted himself fine until the winger came on; after which, Emery brought Nedeljkovic on.
Given that Cash was injured, Emery could have started with Ned, or he could have moved Onana to CB and played Konsa at RB: he did neither, preferring to give the kid a run-out. Fair play. What I liked about Bogarde was his willingness to get up the line, make some passes inside for Rogers and McGinn and support Konsa at the back.
I'm sure he won't be playing Champs League yet - mainly because Konsa will probably do so at RB with Carlos or Mings alongside Pau - but every player has to start somewhere.
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Was he really ‘out of position’ given Unais style of play where in reality, we often play with 3 CH’s and one full back pushing on
He played as a right back and his heat map showed he wasn’t playing as a third central defender.
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... I imagine there are some mouthy I-know-better types already on his case ...
You're certainly right there, my canine friend.
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I thought he had a decent hour, but that was when we had more of the ball - he tired and got more exposed as the game went on. Good debut, and could be a useful player in a position we need more depth
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He did well, he certainly was tired second half and made some clumsy challenges, so he needs minutes which is what he got. It’s plainly obvious after a very low net spend, we need to nurture these youngsters as we are going to be reliant on them. Emery has selected him and Jaden as he must think they are a step above others we’ve sold or sent out on loan.
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He did well, he certainly was tired second half and made some clumsy challenges, so he needs minutes which is what he got. It’s plainly obvious after a very low net spend, we need to nurture these youngsters as we are going to be reliant on them. Emery has selected him and Jaden as he must think they are a step above others we’ve sold or sent out on loan.
True, and we've seen that with his use of Nedeljkovic too, who looks a little callow but is undoubtedly full of potential.
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I think he had cramp before he was subbed, so he obviously felt the unrelenting workrate needed at this level. That will be a good experience for him.
It’s difficult to blood youth when you have such high expectations placed on you. You have to pick the games and situations of least risk.
If we only risked it in cups, well people would soon be moaning if we go out. So early in the season, against opposition who are likely to struggle and we are confident against is probably the best time to try something like this.
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I think he had cramp before he was subbed, so he obviously felt the unrelenting workrate needed at this level. That will be a good experience for him.
It’s difficult to blood youth when you have such high expectations placed on you. You have to pick the games and situations of least risk.
If we only risked it in cups, well people would soon be moaning if we go out. So early in the season, against opposition who are likely to struggle and we are confident against is probably the best time to try something like this.
This is the important thing for me. He was good in the first half other than a couple of nervy passes/touches which are to be expected. However he was clearly tiring and Cooper spotted that and put a fresh player against him and thwey got a lot of joy for 10minutes until we switched Ned in. I think it's good experience for him though as he now knows how physically demanding the league really is and will have a new appreciation of the level of quality teams can bring off the bench.
I think it was a really useful run out for him and I saw enough to think he can be an important part of the squad this season.
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He went a bit square on the attacker for the goal and got done , he should have just eased him out to the byeline
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Was initially surprised to see his name on the team sheet, but having seen him versus Bilbao at centre half, in which his distribution was outstanding, it sort of made sense.
Others have mentioned that he also (or principally) plays midfield - does he have experience at right back too?
If not, that coupled with tiredness explains the drop-off in performance in the second half.
Was less impressed with his distribution this time out, mind, even in the first half.
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Big ask for a kid to be at the top of his game when playing for the first time in the big league.
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Big ask for a kid to be at the top of his game when playing for the first time in the big league.
Exactly. People appear to forget that even players like Foden were eased into their team over time.
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Some of the more harsh reactions may be down to the fact Cash is injured and our only other proper RB is an 18 year old who may not be 100% up to speed with things either.
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I thought he did ok,passing needs improvement but he will know what’s required now ,and I assume work on it.
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Big ask for a kid to be at the top of his game when playing for the first time in the big league.
Exactly. People appear to forget that even players like Foden were eased into their team over time.
The big difference is that Man City can choose to ease their exceptional kids in over time. We had no choice but to chuck either Bogarde or Nedeljkoic in at the deep end, when neither of them appear to be completely ready.
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Yeah which is true, and that’s the system sadly. He did alright overall, but should have been withdrawn a bit earlier. Good experience for him and I reckon he’ll be a good player.
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Thought he had a decent first half then it all got a bit too much for him after half time. Sometimes being thrown in at the deep end is good for development. He'll have learned a lot yesterday.
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He was also being played out of position which you have to take into consideration too. I thought he did well first half.
Needs to improve on his passing though
I thought his passing was his main strength pre season, like better already than many of the first team and the defending was the area which needed testing properly. Perhaps there were nerves yesterday, understandable. I certainly think he has it in him to be a PL level player, at least.
Yeah his passing looked good Clark in pre season but his passing was horrible yesterday. He was good with the ball gettibg it forward but passing it- wasn't goid yesterday. Maybe was nerves and the crowd on his back.
I think he has massive potential- maybe thats why emery put the brakes on geertruida he thinks we have have our own in bogarde who can be like that in next few years
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He was also being played out of position which you have to take into consideration too. I thought he did well first half.
Needs to improve on his passing though
I thought his passing was his main strength pre season, like better already than many of the first team and the defending was the area which needed testing properly. Perhaps there were nerves yesterday, understandable. I certainly think he has it in him to be a PL level player, at least.
Yeah his passing looked good Clark in pre season but his passing was horrible yesterday. He was good with the ball gettibg it forward but passing it- wasn't goid yesterday. Maybe was nerves and the crowd on his back.
I think he has massive potential- maybe thats why emery put the brakes on geertruida he thinks we have have our own in bogarde who can be like that in next few years
He still completed about 80% it was just there were 2-3 really poor ones in there which stick in the mind, one on the edge of their box just before he came off was an absolute shocker when he'd done brilliantly to break up field and should've led to a decent chance for us. I think that one was down to tired legs though, he looked fucked after about 65minutes, which is fair enough.
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Made Troy's team of the week, so I think that's that settled......
Lamare Bogarde (Aston Villa): I've gone a bit different at the back. He made his debut for Aston Villa and handled himself very well.
Edit - the comments underneath it are a fun read.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cy4y143j12jo#comments
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Made Troy's team of the week, so I think that's that settled......
Lamare Bogarde (Aston Villa): I've gone a bit different at the back. He made his debut for Aston Villa and handled himself very well.
Edit - the comments underneath it are a fun read.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cy4y143j12jo#comments
Those comments are spot on.
"He was the only goalkeeper to keep a clean sheet. Liverpool were all over Manchester United from start to finish." And he gets paid to write that, christ.
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Troy went for something a bit different alright, he got that part right. Considering he was there at the game it makes you wonder what he was actually watching.
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Those comments are spot on.
"He was the only goalkeeper to keep a clean sheet. Liverpool were all over Manchester United from start to finish." And he gets paid to write that, christ.
Yesterday he chose Andy Robinson because he got an assist. The lack of assist was pointed out so that line was removed. I honestly think he doesn't bother even watching the games and then just sends a text line for each player to the BBC. Crooks was bad in picking players and not one that could honestly make a team, (6 attackers) but at least he seemed to actually make an effort in his picks, even if the extra lines were so he could get his view across on some other news in football at the time.
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Troy went for something a bit different alright, he got that part right. Considering he was there at the game it makes you wonder what he was actually watching.
Maybe after hanging with the Foxes Ultras he is still in clacker shock.
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Those comments are spot on.
"He was the only goalkeeper to keep a clean sheet. Liverpool were all over Manchester United from start to finish." And he gets paid to write that, christ.
Yesterday he chose Andy Robinson because he got an assist. The lack of assist was pointed out so that line was removed. I honestly think he doesn't bother even watching the games and then just sends a text line for each player to the BBC. Crooks was bad in picking players and not one that could honestly make a team, (6 attackers) but at least he seemed to actually make an effort in his picks, even if the extra lines were so he could get his view across on some other news in football at the time.
Surely the BBC should actually look at who they're getting to write stuff for them? I wasn't a fan of Crooks, but at least he could type a sentence that didn't look like an 11 year old sending a text to his mate. Deeney clearly has absolutely no aptitude for what he's being asked to do at all.
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I very much doubt that Crooks or Deeney have ever written anything for anyone. And really, why does anyone care what they've told their BBC intern?
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I very much doubt that Crooks or Deeney have ever written anything for anyone. And really, why does anyone care what they've told their BBC intern?
It cetrainly reads like Deeney has written it. Have you seen it?
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I very much doubt that Crooks or Deeney have ever written anything for anyone. And really, why does anyone care what they've told their BBC intern?
It cetrainly reads like Deeney has written it. Have you seen it?
It stands out because he obviously has written it himself, and questions need to be asked of the BBC as to who allowed that to happen.
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I very much doubt that Crooks or Deeney have ever written anything for anyone. And really, why does anyone care what they've told their BBC intern?
It cetrainly reads like Deeney has written it. Have you seen it?
I haven't, so I'm posting from a position of ignorance, which isn't unusual! I just don't get why it gets to people.
'Content' is my business. I know why they pump this shit out, and I could write very boringly for hours about it if someone meets my fee but, in short, people might as well get upset about the weather or the calendar. Vote with your feet if you don't like it but it won't change, improve or go away.
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I very much doubt that Crooks or Deeney have ever written anything for anyone. And really, why does anyone care what they've told their BBC intern?
Crooks didn't write it. I think they used to state in the blurb he "sat down with the BBC" to give his thoughts. Maybe Crooks gave up when the person he sat down with was replaced by a work experience from the local school who couldn't be placed anywhere else, so they gave the kid Troy Deeney instead.
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Made Troy's team of the week, so I think that's that settled......
Lamare Bogarde (Aston Villa): I've gone a bit different at the back. He made his debut for Aston Villa and handled himself very well.
Edit - the comments underneath it are a fun read.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cy4y143j12jo#comments
"Ben White was selected but asked to be removed from the XI..." 😂😂
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I still think Kessler-Hayden can feel disappointed at not finally getting a go at RB.
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I still think Kessler-Hayden can feel disappointed at not finally getting a go at RB.
I agree. If the current system is to have two progressive fullbacks then he would have seemed the obvious choice to me.
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KKH hasn't really done that well with his loan moves. If he's good enough, there's time for him to come into the set-up.
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I still think Kessler-Hayden can feel disappointed at not finally getting a go at RB.
I guess he's had quite a bit of time working 2nd half of last season and in the summers with Unai now, so maybe he isn't so sure on him.
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KKH only signed a new deal in July, which does make it a little puzzling. I suppose it might be that he's next season's first choice and Unai thought a full season starting in the Championship would be better preparation than warming the bench here.
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Here's the consisted view from someone who knows.
Unai Emery on Lamare Bogarde: "We are trying to occupy in the squad with relevant players like Cash and Carlos. In case they are injured we have young players like Kosta, Sil and Lamare. We have to give them chances to play, but also helping them and supporting them".
From a John Townley tweet.
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KKH only signed a new deal in July, which does make it a little puzzling. I suppose it might be that he's next season's first choice and Unai thought a full season starting in the Championship would be better preparation than warming the bench here.
No, I think that's it for him. I reckon we'll hope he prospers at Preston (they've just changed manager) and get a few million for him next summer.
If Ned and Bogarde are thrown-in regularly this season when Cash is injured or not in form, you'd think one of them will make that position their own as reliable under-study. Hopefully next summer we can then get an upgrade on Matty.
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KKH only signed a new deal in July, which does make it a little puzzling. I suppose it might be that he's next season's first choice and Unai thought a full season starting in the Championship would be better preparation than warming the bench here.
No, I think that's it for him. I reckon we'll hope he prospers at Preston (they've just changed manager) and get a few million for him next summer.
If Ned and Bogarde are thrown-in regularly this season when Cash is injured or not in form, you'd think one of them will make that position their own as reliable under-study. Hopefully next summer we can then get an upgrade on Matty.
I'm not sure, In the summer Emery seemed to bring him on a sa wide midfielder rather than a full back so I wonder if the idea was for him to go out and play further forward for a season and see if he can offer something to us as a wide midfielder.
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Here's the consisted view from someone who knows.
Unai Emery on Lamare Bogarde: "We are trying to occupy in the squad with relevant players like Cash and Carlos. In case they are injured we have young players like Kosta, Sil and Lamare. We have to give them chances to play, but also helping them and supporting them".
From a John Townley tweet.
Makes sense, I suppose. If we can use the 4 or 5 young lads throughout the season it would be really helpful. They need to be blooded though, and it makes more sense to do that against Leicester, for example, as opposed to Juventus.
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KKH only signed a new deal in July, which does make it a little puzzling. I suppose it might be that he's next season's first choice and Unai thought a full season starting in the Championship would be better preparation than warming the bench here.
No, I think that's it for him. I reckon we'll hope he prospers at Preston (they've just changed manager) and get a few million for him next summer.
If Ned and Bogarde are thrown-in regularly this season when Cash is injured or not in form, you'd think one of them will make that position their own as reliable under-study. Hopefully next summer we can then get an upgrade on Matty.
I'm not sure, In the summer Emery seemed to bring him on a sa wide midfielder rather than a full back so I wonder if the idea was for him to go out and play further forward for a season and see if he can offer something to us as a wide midfielder.
Yep, PNE are playing him as a wide-right sort of player so there may be where his future lies
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How did everything think he did today? I thought he was better today than vs leicester. Still has work to do but has massive potential
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I like him.
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I think he has potential, not convinced it’s as a right back. I reckon he might be a good player in time, probably centrally, but I thought him and SJM on the right didn’t work and limited us.
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Did the job as defensive Right back quite well. Caught out when Onana lost the ball, but then the rest of the team were as well. Just a shame we had no right side attacking all match but it does seem most of Emery's orders seems to be the RB doesn't attack as much as most of them recycle the ball sideways and backwards whether it is Cash, Konsa and now Bogarde.
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He seems a bit wan bassaka like to me
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He’s okay. For me Costa is a better player, but, Unai watches both daily so he knows.
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Very impressed yesterday. This lad, on this trajectory, is going to be another good un...
Having said that, Philogene and he need to be coached on playing together on the right. Was like the Keystone cops in the last 10 mins out there....
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Bogarde did well at times, but it's a step learning curve. Played CL onside a couple of times and then kind of trundled back rather than busting a gut, and has to offer more going forward. Pass to Rogers was a thing of beauty though, spotting the run and lovely little pass. Learning all the time though, and clearly could be a very useful utility player for us.
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I thought he grew as the game went on, he was up against arguably their best (only) player on the day, if there was a criticism, it would be more against UE in that he had plentiful opportunities to overlap and open the game up and he didn’t take any of them. Pretty solid and kept the ball well, even if he was too conservative in possession. Think we might have won the game more comfortably if we’d have replaced both right sided players earlier.
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Agreed, but Philogene was like a rabbit in headlights when he came on. He needs a start for me to get his confidence up. We missed Bailey badly.
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He’s okay. For me Costa is a better player, but, Unai watches both daily so he knows.
Nedeljkovic played twice for Serbia, I think, during the international break. And he's still very young. We need to have multiple options for every position, especially looking at how much we struggled towards the end of last season. Cash is obviously still the first choice there, but if we're using these supposedly more winnable games to blood players, and try different things, then it will hopefully pay off further down the line.
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Agreed, but Philogene was like a rabbit in headlights when he came on.
Yes that foul in injury time was utterly brainless as a set piece was the only threat Everton looked likely to offer.
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He’s still learning, and he has a long way to go.
A couple of things stood out for me.
For both of the DCL chances late on, he completely switched off.
He played DCL onside for the first one, and then made no attempt to rush back, and as he jogged back an Everton player overlapped him.
The same for the second chance.
He needs to improve his concentration and be switched on all of the time.
He will get better. Unai will improve him.
With him and Ned, the RB position looks well covered.
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Double post sorry
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I thought he did a decent job on N'Diaye (sp) as he's about Everton's best player.
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Agreed, but Philogene was like a rabbit in headlights when he came on.
Yes that foul in injury time was utterly brainless as a set piece was the only threat Everton looked likely to offer.
I was not happy about that. It was stupid and un necessary.
As for bogarde there was a pount in the second half where he did a lovely through ball pass to rogers that was saved by pickford. I am glad he is being given a chance as i think he will be handy to have a squad player
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Bogarde did well. Nothing flashy, but stuck to his task and kept things simple. In this team he’s obviously the full back that stays back while Digne is allowed to go forward more.
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Agreed, but Philogene was like a rabbit in headlights when he came on.
Yes that foul in injury time was utterly brainless as a set piece was the only threat Everton looked likely to offer.
I’m sure Emery will have a word about that. On a more positive note he did link up well a couple of times with Bogarde which was good to see.
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The mistakes and lack of attacking threat are all things you’d expect from a youngster breaking through.
Too early to call it either way but worst case we’ve probably doubled his value through these two games.
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Bogarde did well. Nothing flashy, but stuck to his task and kept things simple. In this team he’s obviously the full back that stays back while Digne is allowed to go forward more.
Something which was lost on Jim Beglin on the stream I was watching. Twice wanged-on about Digne offering much more than Bogarde in an attacking sense. He clearly didn't know anything about our left-flank gung-ho, righ-side conservative style that we've adopted since last season.
Pundits don't have to do much work for a well-paid gig like stating the obvious every few minutes on a commentary feed. A pity that many are too lazy to research the tactics of the teams that they are covering.
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Bogarde did well. Nothing flashy, but stuck to his task and kept things simple. In this team he’s obviously the full back that stays back while Digne is allowed to go forward more.
Something which was lost on Jim Beglin on the stream I was watching. Twice wanged-on about Digne offering much more than Bogarde in an attacking sense. He clearly didn't know anything about our left-flank gung-ho, righ-side conservative style that we've adopted since last season.
Pundits don't have to do much work for a well-paid gig like stating the obvious every few minutes on a commentary feed. A pity that many are too lazy to research the tactics of the teams that they are covering.
To be fair, it didn't appear to have occurred to Dyche either!
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According to WhoScored;
89.7% pass accuracy, including 1 key pass.
5 tackles, 1 intercept, and 1 clearance.
His five tackles was 1 more than Digne, Konsa, and Torres combined.
I think he still looks nervy and is settling, so will be interesting how he progresses.
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Great experience for the lad and clearly Emery trusts him and rates him. He is only going to get better.
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I’m glad he’s coming through, shows there still is a path for youngsters after all of the sales lately.
Think he’ll end up being a valuable asset to the club
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Agreed, but Philogene was like a rabbit in headlights when he came on.
Yes that foul in injury time was utterly brainless as a set piece was the only threat Everton looked likely to offer.
I completely agree - I was howling with rage at giving them their best chance of equalising when Young was going away from goal.
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He will only get better.
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According to WhoScored;
89.7% pass accuracy, including 1 key pass.
5 tackles, 1 intercept, and 1 clearance.
His five tackles was 1 more than Digne, Konsa, and Torres combined.
I think he still looks nervy and is settling, so will be interesting how he progresses.
Those are very impressive stats
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According to WhoScored;
89.7% pass accuracy, including 1 key pass.
5 tackles, 1 intercept, and 1 clearance.
His five tackles was 1 more than Digne, Konsa, and Torres combined.
I think he still looks nervy and is settling, so will be interesting how he progresses.
I like him, but he does give off a very 'nervy' vibe. I'm not sure if it's just his mannerisms or not yet.
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Konsa had a real go at him for not tracking his man toward the end of the game, he let the winger run straight past him. I do see promise in him but think he will need more time.
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He had a go at him for playing him onside for the chance that would have made it 1-3.
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He had a go at him for playing him onside for the chance that would have made it 1-3.
.yeah that was not great by bogarde but this high line not a easy tactic to play esp as a young player
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Just needs to make sure he's watching the line with a bit more concentration, as he got us caught out a couple of times switching off and being a little too deep.
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According to WhoScored;
89.7% pass accuracy, including 1 key pass.
5 tackles, 1 intercept, and 1 clearance.
His five tackles was 1 more than Digne, Konsa, and Torres combined.
I think he still looks nervy and is settling, so will be interesting how he progresses.
I like him, but he does give off a very 'nervy' vibe. I'm not sure if it's just his mannerisms or not yet.
Agreed, nervous was how I described his performance . Am sure he will settle given time.
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Just needs to make sure he's watching the line with a bit more concentration, as he got us caught out a couple of times switching off and being a little too deep.
Although there was quite a gap between right back and where Konsa was. It is harder to judge the "straightness" of the line then.
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Bogarde did well. Nothing flashy, but stuck to his task and kept things simple. In this team he’s obviously the full back that stays back while Digne is allowed to go forward more.
I noticed that he wins tackles! I know that sounds a little strange when talking about a defender but definitely knows how to stop an opponent, he didn't seem to give many freekicks away and will grow into the role.
Having said all that, I suspect Nedeljkovic will play on Tuesday.
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I think he's got great potential. He does get caught occasionally but generally is doing well.
His introduction just goes to show how big a step up playing first team Premier League football is.
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Got to remember too, he's not a right back, so is learning on the job here.
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As a kid finding his feet in the PL I think he's doing pretty well. But as a starting right back for us right now I think he's a bit limited and a weak link both defensively and going forward. We really need Cash back before the CL kicks in. (an opening there for anyone who wants to joke about our prices)
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Got to remember too, he's not a right back, so is learning on the job here.
He seems a bit too short to be a centre-back to me so I'd guess his future will have to be full-back or DM?
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He's just under 6ft 1in, apparently.
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He's just under 6ft 1in, apparently.
So 6ft then. ;-)
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Got to remember too, he's not a right back, so is learning on the job here.
He seems a bit too short to be a centre-back to me so I'd guess his future will have to be full-back or DM?
Wonder how many times people have said that about Man Utd's Martinez.
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He's just under 6ft 1in, apparently.
So 6ft then. ;-)
I don't know how it works at such gargantuan heights...
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Got to remember too, he's not a right back, so is learning on the job here.
He seems a bit too short to be a centre-back to me so I'd guess his future will have to be full-back or DM?
Wonder how many times people have said that about Man Utd's Martinez.
Probably quite a few. But there's a reason the vast majority of top level centre backs are much taller.
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Carlos Puyol, superb central defender, Fabio Cannavaro, one of the best central defenders i've ever seen. Both relative short arses so it can be done, although not that often admittedly.
As for Lamar, i think he's an excellent footballer but not all that quick. I think the jury is out in terms of his actual defending but he's only young, has only played a few and he's got plenty of time to develop.
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Carlos Puyol, superb central defender, Fabio Cannavaro, one of the best central defenders i've ever seen. Both relative short arses so it can be done, although not that often admittedly.
Franco Baresi, 5ft 9".
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Yep, another of the best i've ever seen. So this lanky CB requirement is starting to fall apart :-)
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Apart from the odd exception, most tall footballers aren't....well......tall.
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I think his best position is defensive midfield. It's a big ask to start his Premier League career at right back, a position which he's not really that accustomed to. He was definitely under instructions to be cautious & the players seemed a bit reluctant to give him the ball.
But, he's performed well so far & from the current crop of under 21 players he's the one I thought could make a career at this level. Though I doubt he'll get much of a look in as a defensive midfielder with the options we have.
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I think being tall as a central defender is more of a benefit in the Premier League than it is in other major Europen Leagues.
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So the same height as Konsa?
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So the same height as Konsa?
Fair enough. I thought he looked shorter tbh.
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Paul Parker was a decent shortarsed cented half.
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Paul Parker was a decent shortarsed cented half.
I can only really recall seeing him as a right back though.
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Paul Parker was a decent shortarsed cented half.
I can only really recall seeing him as a right back though.
Parker was a very good player but for 34 years the only thing I think of when someone mentions his name is the ball looping up off him and over Shilton's head.
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Hit reply under Risso's post to see Paulie beat me to it.
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Paul Parker was a decent shortarsed cented half.
I can only really recall seeing him as a right back though.
He played CH when QPR thrashed us 0-3. He was McGrathesque in his reading of the game. Someone scored a hatrick. I forget who.
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Paul Parker was a decent shortarsed cented half.
I can only really recall seeing him as a right back though.
He played CH when QPR thrashed us 0-3. He was McGrathesque in his reading of the game. Someone scored a hatrick. I forget who.
The scorer was player-manager as well wasn't he? You don't get that these days, who was the last one in the Premier League?
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Was that Trevor Francis?
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It was.
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Paul Parker was a decent shortarsed cented half.
I can only really recall seeing him as a right back though.
He played CH when QPR thrashed us 0-3. He was McGrathesque in his reading of the game. Someone scored a hatrick. I forget who.
The scorer was player-manager as well wasn't he? You don't get that these days, who was the last one in the Premier League?
The last player manager who I remember scoring was Vialli. The last player manager was probably Giggs in the four games he was caretaker manager.
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Parker was an excellent player, the Man Utd bastard. I don't recall him at CB either but it's a long time ago. I think i remember him sometimes playing right midfield for QPR though and bombing forward, but mainly being a right back.
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Paul Parker was a decent shortarsed cented half.
To be fair he also set up Linekers goal
I can only really recall seeing him as a right back though.
Parker was a very good player but for 34 years the only thing I think of when someone mentions his name is the ball looping up off him and over Shilton's head.
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Parker was centre half at QPR when Man Utd bought him but they played him more at right back, but he made his name and got his big move as a centre back.
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Really struggled tonight. It’s tough playing in an unfamiliar position, but thought they targeted him.
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Really struggled tonight. It’s tough playing in an unfamiliar position, but thought they targeted him.
After a torrid 20 mins, didn't he come through the same as the rest of the team? He probably made less mistakes then Carlos on the night.
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Really struggled tonight. It’s tough playing in an unfamiliar position, but thought they targeted him.
After a torrid 20 mins, didn't he come through the same as the rest of the team? He probably made less mistakes then Carlos on the night.
Fair point. Bogarde seemed to be struggling to keep his feet early on. Carlos was way too aggressive, clumsily so.
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Bogarde was a mixture tonight.He did some very good things on the ball, and he's still learning the play.
However, he also tends to give too many fouls away and can lose focus and do sloppy play in possession too, but I think overall it was a good experience again for him, and I think he's a good one if a little naive
Lamare is capable of playing his part in cup matches and against lower-half Prem teams in the league, but against better opposition would be a concern.
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He looked to me like someone who can play at centre half but hasn't done it for a while so hus positioning was slightly off. I like him though, there's a Konsa-like calmness about him on the ball and he's quick enough to be able to make up for most mistakes. A few misplaced passes were disappointing but it was very static in front of him at times which didn't help.
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He will learn more when he's playing alongside Konsa, Mings, Torres, etc, than tonight playing in a makeshift defence. He's a decent prospect, IMO.
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I agree. Reminds me of science experiments at school where if you change one variable you can see how it impacts the control experiment. Change several variables and you have no idea what drives the change in results.
He showed some good moments and as one of the less experienced players in a crucial position he did fine.
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He's a decent prospect, but he was awful tonight. Both things can be true.
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He's a decent prospect, but he was awful tonight. Both things can be true.
Our highest ever transfer fee on the other hand was..anyone seen Tim? I hate complete team changes, players should be measured playing with the first choice players. This is more a fitness exercise and a test in how they take instruction.
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Not good enough for where we are or want to be, imo.
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Not good enough for where we are or want to be, imo.
Well I'll Emery & his coaches be the judge of that.
On the evidence of tonight you could have said the same about Duran.
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Not good enough for where we are or want to be, imo.
Well I'll Emery & his coaches be the judge of that.
On the evidence of tonight you could have said the same about Duran.
Or Bailey!
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Bogarde is at that stage where I’d prefer he was doing this learning whilst on loan. The rules stopped us buying that one extra player though.
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He will learn more when he's playing alongside Konsa, Mings, Torres, etc, than tonight playing in a makeshift defence. He's a decent prospect, IMO.
Thats what i think too. Hard to judge yesterday when he was playing with a young and make shift back four.
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Not good enough for where we are or want to be, imo.
He's 20 and these are first senior performances, there is literally no chance anyone could possibly say shit like that with confidence.
One of the best managers in the country is picking him, I'll be inclined to take his opinion
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Tough crowd, really tough crowd.
I thought yesterday was the ideal type of game to play him, he got roughed up a bit, bullied a bit and had to dish out bollockings to players with more experience who weren’t moving enough for him to play the football he’d been told to. And he did OK
Our kids need to be playing in games like this for us to know if they have a future or not.
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Not good enough for where we are or want to be, imo.
Well I'll Emery & his coaches be the judge of that.
On the evidence of tonight you could have said the same about Duran.
Or Bailey!
The key distinction lies in the performances we've witnessed from Duran and Bailey, who have both been outstanding. In contrast, I have yet to see Bogarde deliver a solid performance.
Duran plays with the poise of a seasoned international, while Bogarde has made only limited appearances for the Netherlands at youth level. His inclusion in the first team appears to be driven by necessity, and at present, he seems overwhelmed by the demands of the role.
It's evident that being played out of position is having a significant impact on his performance. I am particularly concerned about how he might fare against stronger opposition, as he is currently not meeting the level required for where the team stands.
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I thought Bogarde looked far more confident last night. He put some blocks in, was quick to respond and close attackers down on a few occasions, and won the ball back more than once.
Whether that's down to the level of opposition, him playing centrally rather than on the right, or having learned from his league experience and had extra coaching I don't know. But playing will have done him the world of good.
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Wow, there’s some harsh words on here this morning.
He’s a young lad, give him a break. IMO he’s doing fine, more than fine. We’ve won 7 of 8 games we’ve played, it’s not like he’s costing us points.
In any case, you have to go a long way up the food chain to find defenders who don’t have the odd mistake in them. That's even more true with how we play.
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You would have thought we lost the game by 2 or 3 juding by a lot of the social media comments.
He is young and learning. He will get better im almost certain of that under emery
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I think he's struggling right now. As Risso said it's reasonable to say he's not playing well enough right now without writing off his whole career. Unai also clearly doesn't think Ned is quite ready.
Now Carlos is injured we're in trouble and need Cash back asap. We really needed a right back in the summer. The 6 will be delighted FFP is doing it's job.
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He wants to play football - and has a bit of talent, which is probably why Emery has involved him so much.
His decision-making needs to improve, as does his positioning, but it's far too early to have a fully formed opinion of him I think.
I remember the same with Ramsey when he broke into the first team - it wasn't obvious where his talents lie and he looked a bit lost at times, but he is now a very good attacking midfielder with a defined style.
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I think he's struggling right now. As Risso said it's reasonable to say he's not playing well enough right now without writing off his whole career. Unai also clearly doesn't think Ned is quite ready.
Now Carlos is injured we're in trouble and need Cash back asap. We really needed a right back in the summer. The 6 will be delighted FFP is doing it's job.
Yeah of course its absolutely ok to say he is not playing well. I think its the comments like "bogardes the worst" "worst player" "should never player for us again" these are the comments on social media where in my opinion are OTT.
Dont see much of that here thankfully
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Jesus, he's a kid and last night he wasn't learning from more experienced players but leading the defence.
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I think he's struggling right now. As Risso said it's reasonable to say he's not playing well enough right now without writing off his whole career. Unai also clearly doesn't think Ned is quite ready.
Now Carlos is injured we're in trouble and need Cash back asap. We really needed a right back in the summer. The 6 will be delighted FFP is doing it's job.
Yeah of course its absolutely ok to say he is not playing well. I think its the comments like "bogardes the worst" "worst player" "should never player for us again" these are the comments on social media where in my opinion are OTT.
Dont see much of that here thankfully
I mostly agree but I do think some people need to stop and think about what a shit performance from a kid in his 4th game really looks like.
He got caught on the ball a few times and misplaced a few passes (5 out of 91) but a big part of that was down to him looking upand having no one to play the ball to. Many times over the 90 he had the ball at his feet and came to a standstill because nothing was happening in front of him but he wanted to be playing the ball into midfield.
Last night he was mostly decent but let himself down 2-3 times and had a bit of back luck for their goal but for some that's all it takes.
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He didn't let himself down. He learned.
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Fans have such reactions they see young fullbacks like Bradley at liverpool, Lewis Hall (when)at chelsea come in and make an bigimpacts in big televised games and players like rico lewis with pundits gushing about him when he doesn't seem to do an awful lot. Villa have injury problems Irobruen comes in doesn't pull up any trees and then two young lads get a shot at the RB role and neither of them looks convincing.
The big thing I noticed with Bogarde is he had a couple of moments against the toffee's where he had a chance to run at Ashley Young but he played a risk free square. It could be instruction. safety first instincts or he just didn't back himself which seemed strange. A young strong teenager one on one against a 39 year old late in the game? I'd be thinking "come on then grandad, you ready for some exercise?" The good thing is next summer Villa should get more than the usual 20m as he will have played a few more times including much coveted champions league than the likes of kellyman.
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The way we generally play on the right is that safety first style isn't it?
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Fans have such reactions they see young fullbacks like Bradley at liverpool, Lewis Hall (when)at chelsea come in and make an bigimpacts in big televised games and players like rico lewis with pundits gushing about him when he doesn't seem to do an awful lot. Villa have injury problems Irobruen comes in doesn't pull up any trees and then two young lads get a shot at the RB role and neither of them looks convincing.
The big thing I noticed with Bogarde is he had a couple of moments against the toffee's where he had a chance to run at Ashley Young but he played a risk free square. It could be instruction. safety first instincts or he just didn't back himself which seemed strange. A young strong teenager one on one against a 39 year old late in the game? I'd be thinking "come on then grandad, you ready for some exercise?" The good thing is next summer Villa should get more than the usual 20m as he will have played a few more times including much coveted champions league than the likes of kellyman.
I'm convinced it's instruction. Cash often does the same thing - stopping his run and passing back/inside when he's 1v1. My guess is the right-back is told to be more conservative when the left-back is the more attack-minded player (which is often the case with our set-up).
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Fans have such reactions they see young fullbacks like Bradley at liverpool, Lewis Hall (when)at chelsea come in and make an bigimpacts in big televised games and players like rico lewis with pundits gushing about him when he doesn't seem to do an awful lot. Villa have injury problems Irobruen comes in doesn't pull up any trees and then two young lads get a shot at the RB role and neither of them looks convincing.
The big thing I noticed with Bogarde is he had a couple of moments against the toffee's where he had a chance to run at Ashley Young but he played a risk free square. It could be instruction. safety first instincts or he just didn't back himself which seemed strange. A young strong teenager one on one against a 39 year old late in the game? I'd be thinking "come on then grandad, you ready for some exercise?" The good thing is next summer Villa should get more than the usual 20m as he will have played a few more times including much coveted champions league than the likes of kellyman.
I'm convinced it's instruction. Cash often does the same thing - stopping his run and passing back/inside when he's 1v1. My guess is the right-back is told to be more conservative when the left-back is the more attack-minded player (which is often the case with our set-up).
It's about creating an attacking formation. Against a back 4 the trend over recent years has been to get into a 325 as quickly as possible.
We do that by having the left back get high up the pitch, the left winger come 10yards inside, the 10 go into the same space on the right and the right winger holds their width - making the 5.
further back we either have the right back tuck in to make the 3 with the CMs in front or, when Kamara is playing, we sometimes let him fall back and give the right back a little more licence to get forward.
The issue with this right now is that with Bailey and Philogene out we didn't have that natural right winger so McGinn was in there but his instinct is more to step inside so we end up more like a 3214 and it's made us look a little out of shape.
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Thought he looked better on the ball , he was done at Leicester for their goal, got caught square on rather than taking the winger out wide. He will learn . Same with Swinkels who can't let last nights error for the goal get to him, it's part of the learning curve at this stage . Remember Ugo in his early games and how good he became.
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Bogarde has got a lot of hard work in front of him if he wants to reach the levels we are aspiring too.
That hard work starts today.
I wish him the best in a game that is ruthless and has little room for sentimentality.
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He didn't let himself down. He learned.
Good post 👍
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Bogarde is an important player for us, Emery clearly sees this game time as an investment in the future.
- valuable in PSR terms as an academy product
- home grown for European registration (I think?)
- can cover three positions if needed
- he's quick, which is important for the high line and can't be taught unlike other defending attributes
It looks to me like we are grooming him as Konsa's backup, the way he plays there are a lot of similarities. He's nowhere near Konsa's level yet obviously but he is six years younger. He probably would have gone out on loan if we'd been able to sell Carlos and sign that Dutch fella. When that fell through I'm glad we decided to give him a chance rather than panic buy another defender (another Bednarek for example), I imagine he will play a lot less when Mings and Cash are fit, but will be better for having these games under his belt.
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Fans have such reactions they see young fullbacks like Bradley at liverpool, Lewis Hall (when)at chelsea come in and make an bigimpacts in big televised games and players like rico lewis with pundits gushing about him when he doesn't seem to do an awful lot. Villa have injury problems Irobruen comes in doesn't pull up any trees and then two young lads get a shot at the RB role and neither of them looks convincing.
The big thing I noticed with Bogarde is he had a couple of moments against the toffee's where he had a chance to run at Ashley Young but he played a risk free square. It could be instruction. safety first instincts or he just didn't back himself which seemed strange. A young strong teenager one on one against a 39 year old late in the game? I'd be thinking "come on then grandad, you ready for some exercise?" The good thing is next summer Villa should get more than the usual 20m as he will have played a few more times including much coveted champions league than the likes of kellyman.
I'm convinced it's instruction. Cash often does the same thing - stopping his run and passing back/inside when he's 1v1. My guess is the right-back is told to be more conservative when the left-back is the more attack-minded player (which is often the case with our set-up).
It's about creating an attacking formation. Against a back 4 the trend over recent years has been to get into a 325 as quickly as possible.
We do that by having the left back get high up the pitch, the left winger come 10yards inside, the 10 go into the same space on the right and the right winger holds their width - making the 5.
further back we either have the right back tuck in to make the 3 with the CMs in front or, when Kamara is playing, we sometimes let him fall back and give the right back a little more licence to get forward.
The issue with this right now is that with Bailey and Philogene out we didn't have that natural right winger so McGinn was in there but his instinct is more to step inside so we end up more like a 3214 and it's made us look a little out of shape.
We don't seem to be going into a back 3 this season. We seem to be a 442 out of possession and 4222 when we're in possession.
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We don't seem to be going into a back 3 this season. We seem to be a 442 out of possession and 4222 when we're in possession.
Not as obviously I agree, but I think that's more something we're doing in away games, the 3 stil lseems to be happening at home and in games where we're well on top (Arsenal is the outlier here but it was last year as well). As i said though, the position of McGinn made things look very different in the last couple: **click the link and then the 'players average position' option**
against Everton - https://www.sofascore.com/football/match/everton-aston-villa/PY#id:12436933 (https://www.sofascore.com/football/match/everton-aston-villa/PY#id:12436933) - he's a bit too narrow and too deep which leaves us without many options on the right but it was ok
against Wolves - https://www.sofascore.com/football/match/aston-villa-wolverhampton/dsP#id:12436957 (https://www.sofascore.com/football/match/aston-villa-wolverhampton/dsP#id:12436957) - here's where it's more obvious, he's far too deep and too central, giving us no out ball on that side.
When Bailey plays he's much further forward and gives us that natural width to the attack, which changes our shape right across the pitch as the game becomes more spread.
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I leave it to Emery to sort him out
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His passing suxor.
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He played really well as the playmaker centre back against Bilbao, really strong on the ball and tactically sound.
He’s looked short of stamina (at right back) in competitive games, but that’s a bump in the road he needs to get past.
He’s quick and tidy on the ball. Can he make the step up? Jury’s out for me, would be harsh to judge him right now though.
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He needs time. He's mainly played centre back or defensive midfielder in his development. So at right back he's had to learn a new position as well as adjust to Premier League from youth football and third tier football. He's mostly done alright as a defensive fullback and just struggled a bit fitness or concentration-wise in the final stages of games. More experience and coaching and he can be a good option for the Konsa role.
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He needs time. He's mainly played centre back or defensive midfielder in his development. So at right back he's had to learn a new position as well as adjust to Premier League from youth football and third tier football. He's mostly done alright as a defensive fullback and just struggled a bit fitness or concentration-wise in the final stages of games. More experience and coaching and he can be a good option for the Konsa role.
As a small point Tuesday was his first senior performance at centre back so he's just as raw there as he is at fullback.
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Well, it's Premier League in a new position vs a division 1 team in a position he's played in academy football. I'm assuming Bristol Rovers only played him in centre mid.
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Well, it's Premier League in a new position vs a division 1 team in a position he's played in academy football. I'm assuming Bristol Rovers only played him in centre mid.
Yep.
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Bogarde does seem to commit a lot of fouls in a match, but I like his play generally and can see him developing as he seems like a decent footballer.
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Played well today, well done Lamare. Wouldn't be upset if he starts against the yacht-shaggers.
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Played well today, well done Lamare. Wouldn't be upset if he starts against the yacht-shaggers.
He will probably have to.
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Looks better in CM than right back to be honest
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https://x.com/AVFCStatto/status/1880700902837031255?t=jjWC0NaY1QQ5cratdXxnlQ&s=19
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Very assured performance, has Emery just unearthed another gem .
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https://x.com/AVFCStatto/status/1880700902837031255?t=jjWC0NaY1QQ5cratdXxnlQ&s=19
Crikey. If he can develop as DCM then my obsession with getting Doug Luis is back on.
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Looks better in CM than right back to be honest
it's where he's played the vast majority of his senior football so no surprise.
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The way he sprayed that ball out to Digne for goal 1 shows the lad can pass aswell
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He did well when he came on.
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100% passing accuracy. Did great.
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Well done Lamare that’s a tough situation to come on in and sounds like a very solid performance (I didn’t see much of the second half).
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Did really well. Could have won it for us with a bit more conviction in his shot. Seemed to be concentrating on getting it on target, but I suppose if he’d gone for power and blazed it wide I’d have been slating him for that. Always the case with hindsight on missed chances.
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He slotted in very nicely and grew into the game well. Quite impressive.
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Thought he did well in so far as he wasn't hugely noticeable (in a bad way) coming in with us a goal already down and under the cosh.
But he was better than that. 100% pass completion and a nice, weighted pass out wide to help set up the first.
Looks far more comfortable in DM than he did as emergency fullback at the start of the season.
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That's three different positions this season I think.
I really wasn't sure when I saw his number go up but there's nothing better than being proven wrong like that. He was great and hopefully means Tielemans can just continue as a 10, because he's better there.
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He's played more first-team football as a central midfielder than anywhere else (on loan at Bristol Rovers), so it's not a surprise he looked more at home there than at right-back. He looks very tidy, without standing out, but he won a few tackles, and as others have said a 100% pass completion is great for any midfielder, as was his pass out to Digne ahead of the first goal.
More importantly, Unai clearly has faith in him to bring him on in that situation, when 90% of us thought Tielemens would drop back and we'd bring someone on to play in his more forward-facing role. He's only just turned 21, so it's still entirely possible he's going to be a part of our first-team squad rather than another asset to sell. That said, another half dozen performances like that this season and his stock will rise exponentially.
I doubt that back in 2021, when we looked at our Youth Cup-winning side, many of us would have said Lamare would be the one contributing to our first team in 2025. Long may it continue!
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He played centre back too in the League Cup and in the preseason game versus Bilbao. In the latter, it was noticeable how composed he was on the ball, but that credit was offset a bit by the full back experiment, which in hindsight was just the performance of a young player playing out of position. As others have mentioned, he developed primarily as, and sees himself as, a centre midfielder.
Last night, his composed passing was pleasing to the eye - backed up by the stats it would seem, which also suggest he got solidly stuck in, contrary to my impression that he looked slightly lightweight in there. The passing stats are all the more impressive as it was trench warfare in there yesterday, not tippy tappy stuff at the back, with a number of successfully completed under-pressure passes. Well done, that lad.
In any event, he’s not the second coming (yet), but there looks to be something to build on. On several occasions, most notably with Iroegbunam, Emery has emphasised how crucial it is that young players show that “now is their time” when the opportunities arise. Bogarde could hardly have done more in that respect last night.
On a side note, I feel sure that if either of Iroegbunam or Philogene had mustered a performance of comparable calibre in the opportunities they were given, they would not have been shown the door.
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He did seem a lot more comfortable playing where he did yesterday and it's nice to have another midfield option.
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He was challenging for the ball that got through to Ollie for the 2nd, without that it might have been cleared.
They need to count ghost assists, where you don't touch the ball but play a significant part in making a goal.
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On a side note, I feel sure that if either of Iroegbunam or Philogene had mustered a performance of comparable calibre in the opportunities they were given, they would not have been shown the door.
Agreed.
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He did very, very well last night against one of the best midfields in the country, when we were chasing the game.
That role and position suited him well, and as he gets more confidence about him, he is going to be a great option for us.
With Onana being made of paper and Barkley of glass, Bogarde may well find himself playing lots of minutes.
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He was challenging for the ball that got through to Ollie for the 2nd, without that it might have been cleared.
They need to count ghost assists, where you don't touch the ball but play a significant part in making a goal.
Yep, challenging for that ball, and his shot from the edge of the box (though a bit tame), and his lofted pass out to Digne all suggest he's not just a pure defensive midfielder, and might have a bit more to his game. If our midfield injuries haven't cleared up in the next two or three weeks (looks like we'll be without Onana, McGinn and Barkley for at least a couple more weeks), I expect to see him get plenty of minutes. If he can maintain the level he showed at the Emirates, then we might have found ourselves another very good first-team option.
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53 mins plus injury time both halfs against the "mighty Gooners" alongside Ķamara with Mings barking instructions from behind will have been an invaluable lesson.
Worth more than half a dozen reserve games.
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The striking thing about the long pass to Digne was that he had the confidence to take it on. It was a fairly obvious ball to play (watching on telly, obvs), but he had a few simpler options that a player with less about him may well have taken.
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53 mins plus injury time both halfs against the "mighty Gooners" alongside Ķamara with Mings barking instructions from behind will have been an invaluable lesson.
Worth more than half a dozen reserve games.
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100% pass accuracy yesterday and showed a couple of nice progressive passes (including the ball out to Digne). Made tackles.
Well played Lamare. He certainly looks more comfortable there than right back, but his preferred positions are in the center, either at the back or in midfield (and I believe he prefers the latter).
I hope he can maintain those levels if called upon. He's set himself a good bar there. Jaden had the game against Bayern and a couple of tidy performances just after, but couldn't sustain it.
As others have said, with Onana and Barkley injured so often, he may just get a chance and if he can do it at the Emirates, he can look the part anywhere.
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Agreed Supertom that Philogene had Bayern, and there are similarities. The key difference for me is that in that game, Philogene was being asked to play a specific and mostly limited role, rather than expressing the core skills on which his potential is built. Whereas Bogarde was playing something closer to his natural role. Splitting hairs maybe, but there’s a bit of a distinction for me.
That being said, it’s only one step for Bogarde, and he’ll need to back it up with a few more.
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He's young enough to learn from Kamara and if he can get anywhere near his standard, that would be great for us. Presumably he counts as a homegrown player too, which we don't have many of.
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Well done Lamare. Grandad Dirk would have been proud.
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53 mins plus injury time both halfs against the "mighty Gooners" alongside Ķamara with Mings barking instructions from behind will have been an invaluable lesson.
Worth more than half a dozen reserve games.
You can say that again
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I kinda like that this thread was started by a Cardiff City fan. All the more if Lamare goes on to be a proper Lion.
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Even caught the Graun’s eye:
Bogarde offers food for thought
When did Aston Villa start to get back into the game against Arsenal? In part the issue was self-inflicted as Arsenal wobbled having gone 2-0 up. In part it was the half-time arrival of Lucas Digne, his long passing and crossing gave Villa additional attacking edge. But perhaps the moment what looked like being an Arsenal walkover started to become a little tougher was when Amadou Onana was forced off for Lamare Bogarde on 37 minutes. Bogarde, nephew of Winston, played all across midfield on loan at Bristol Rovers, has played largely at centre-back for Villa’s reserves and has tended to operate at right-back in his occasional outings for the senior side. But at the back of midfield he was a tenacious presence who completed all six passes he attempted, providing the platform from which Youri Tielemans launched Villa’s counter-assault. Swansea are interested in a loan move for the 21-year-old, but Villa may not want to let him go.
Jonathan Wilson
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Even caught the Graun’s eye:
Bogarde offers food for thought
When did Aston Villa start to get back into the game against Arsenal? In part the issue was self-inflicted as Arsenal wobbled having gone 2-0 up. In part it was the half-time arrival of Lucas Digne, his long passing and crossing gave Villa additional attacking edge. But perhaps the moment what looked like being an Arsenal walkover started to become a little tougher was when Amadou Onana was forced off for Lamare Bogarde on 37 minutes. Bogarde, nephew of Winston, played all across midfield on loan at Bristol Rovers, has played largely at centre-back for Villa’s reserves and has tended to operate at right-back in his occasional outings for the senior side. But at the back of midfield he was a tenacious presence who completed all six passes he attempted, providing the platform from which Youri Tielemans launched Villa’s counter-assault. Swansea are interested in a loan move for the 21-year-old, but Villa may not want to let him go.
Jonathan Wilson
Wow he completed 6 passes in 57 minutes of football
The new Andrea Pirlo
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The ability to recycle the ball simply is massively underrated.
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Frickin Swansea!!
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Six passes...pretty sure that graphic of his unblemished stats showed more than six passes! Hope so.
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It was his ability to get back quickly to defend counter attacks in that I noticed. Got some good blocks on and nice pass out to Digne.
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Also, Didn't commit any silly fouls in dangerous areas which is easily done in that position.
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Here's looking at you kid!
Lamare Bogart is now set to stay at Villa and not going out on loan in the window.
And he sees his natural position to be in midfield so with McGinn Onana and Barkley injured is an option for the upcoming games.
When they return, the window will be closed , and he'll be bench warmer but he's got a good opportunity to step up in the meantime.
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With Rogers completely off it for the last 20-30 minutes the other night, Bogarde should have come on and Tieleman moved up front with hopefully more chances made for the front runners. People seem to forget that Bogarde came as a midfielder and spent last season on loan and playing as a defensive midfielder, so he knows the ropes.
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Bogarde is not going to Seville as part of any deal with Bade and club have also said he's not available to loan. Blackburn were interested to loan him.
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That's what I was thinking. I would have given Emi 2 a rest, too.
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Looks increasingly likely Lamar is going to have to step up in the second half of this season. I’ve felt he looks a bit lightweight for a CB but Wiki says he is 6ft!
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Mainoo and Diallo look 10 years old too but they're often their best players.
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Looks increasingly likely Lamar is going to have to step up in the second half of this season. I’ve felt he looks a bit lightweight for a CB but Wiki says he is 6ft!
You are mixing up height and weight.
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He has a role in midfield, if we end up relying on him at centre back right now we have massively fucked up.
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He has a role in midfield, if we end up relying on him at centre back right now we have massively fucked up.
This.
He's always been a DM....Emery playing him at RB earlier season shows the faith and belief that SUE has in him. Playing him in his preferred role would obviously see him at his best rather than just plugging a gap somewhere else on the pitch. His ball to Digne for that cross at Arse last week was delightful.
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He has a role in midfield, if we end up relying on him at centre back right now we have massively fucked up.
Absolutely. Centre Half is not a position you can fuck about with playing kids or people out of position (see T Hotspurs for evidence). We absolutely should not be mending and making do with the schedule we have ahead.
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We hope!
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I wonder if he’ll be deployed today alongside Tielemans, McGinn amd /or Onana with Kamara centre half.
LB can drop into right back as Garcia goes forward
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Another game, another position, another decent showing. Got caught out for the goal, (I think the period of possession leading up to it came from his wayward pass forward as well), but I've seen experienced defenders caught out with those cut back, inswinging crosses as well, especially if accurate and the attacker makes the perfect run.
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Did well when.he came on today. Not sure what his best position is, but he is proving useful.this season.
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Top stuff from the young 'un tonight. To come on out of position and to look that comfortable speaks volumes ffor his growing confidence. The first time I saw him this season, playing at RB, he looked a rabbit in the headlights.
Pace, control (both of the ball and in his challenges), ability to pick a pass and showed some strength, too.
Bet his dad was proud tonight.
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He's on the way to becoming a very important cog in the team. Excellent for the majority of the game and his versatility and no doubt willingness to sit on the bench and not complain will make him a real asset long term.
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He looks better through the middle than he does at right back.
That sounds like it might be a criticism, but it isn't. He just looks more comfortable there.
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Agreed, though to me his best position is in front of the back line.
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He's on the way to becoming a very important cog in the team. Excellent for the majority of the game and his versatility and no doubt willingness to sit on the bench and not complain will make him a real asset long term.
In all honesty, I hope he's not satisfied on the bench and has designs on getting in the first team and displacing one of the more established players when his chance comes. He's 21 now, so not an especially young kid anymore in football terns and that's the kind of attitude he needs really.
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Agreed, though to me his best position is in front of the back line.
Yep, have to agree. He seems more of a Kamara backup than anything.
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And that is high praise, not criticism.
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Did really well again last night, considering he's a DM playing in defence with a DM, and a new RB.
Really useful squad addition.
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A few games at DCM would be nice. Meant to be his best position and it’d be interesting to see how he compares with Onana.
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I really liked his composure and decision-making last night. He looks very mature and - against an insipid Spuds attack - dealt with everything pretty well.
I think if Solanke had been playing last night, both Bogarde and Kamara might have had a more difficult evening, just for the physical challenge.
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Seems to have found his feet now, impressive.
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I really liked his composure and decision-making last night. He looks very mature and - against an insipid Spuds attack - dealt with everything pretty well.
I think if Solanke had been playing last night, both Bogarde and Kamara might have had a more difficult evening, just for the physical challenge.
I'd add that he was guilty of ballwatching a couple of times; including the Spuds goal.
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He grew into it last night and looked comfortable on the ball. Hopefully Mings is back soon but he’s proven he belongs at this level.
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I think he's a great utility option to fill in a few different positions. He's young and covers a few different positions and does a reasonable job in all of them making him massively valuable for the club-trained spots in the squad for Europe (once he needs to included in list a from summer 26).
One of our biggest strengths is the amount of players we have that give us some degree of flexibility in how we use them and who we pick around them.
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For me he's been one of the big plusses of the season. A home-grown utility player is valuable in more ways than one.
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I'm still not sure about him as a right back. He does seem to look more comfortable playing more centrally.
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Not a RB for me. The problem with utility players is they always turn out decent at all positions and not great at any, see Phil Jones. I'd like to see him get a run at DCM, it's the only way to find out. We still seem to have this reticence to play our youngsters...or our academy isn't all it's cracked out to be!
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Not a RB for me. The problem with utility players is they always turn out decent at all positions and not great at any, see Phil Jones. I'd like to see him get a run at DCM, it's the only way to find out. We still seem to have this reticence to play our youngsters...or our academy isn't all it's cracked out to be!
Most young players would give anything for a career at the top level as long as Phil Jones had.
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Paul Madeley was the first I heard referred to as a "utility player".
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Paul Madeley was the first I heard referred to as a "utility player".
A great player he was too, could play anywhere.
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Excellent yesterday and another ‘yep he can play there too’ moment covering LCB. I think he’s good enough to be our 4th choice CB and cover the Kamara role if needed, longer term he could succeed Konsa too.
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Paul Madeley was the first I heard referred to as a "utility player".
Surely Con Martin. Even played in Goal.
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I'd trust him with a start at CB now, if we get more CB's crocked. Which is very likely.
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Another terrific performance, and I'm delighted for him.
While clearly a right footer, you could see he has been working on playing off his left, and was not afraid to do so. Great distribution and composure.
Well done that man!
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Definitely one I hope we keep around and don't use for PSR purposes.
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He could become our Phil Neville. And I mean that in the good, Man-Utd-title-winning way. If he can cover three or four positions at the back and in midfield, at 80%+ of the standard of the first choice, then he could prove invaluable over the next year or two. 20-odd appearances a season, never really nailing down a starting 11 spot, but STILL making a really meaningful contribution to results.
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Appears to be taking it all in his stride. He impressed during our FA Youth Cup winning run, and it's great to see one of the kids breaking into the first team.
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I think he is quality. What a find whoever brought him to the club
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Paul Madeley was the first I heard referred to as a "utility player".
When were "utility rooms" in the home invented? The burgeoning British middle-classes under Thatcher?
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Very relaxed on the ball and a good passer. A bit of an unsung hero type about him as he's so unflustered. Good player and I am pleased he didn't go out on loan.
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Excellent tonight. Physical challenge in the second half that he coped well with. He’s definitely a central player, but he’s developing really well.
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I like him, hope we keep him.
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My MOTM for us tonight
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This lad is coming on in leaps and bounds. Excellent tonight.
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My MOTM for us tonight
Agreed, did well and snuffed out the little danger Cardiff posed.
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My MOTM for us tonight
Agreed, did well and snuffed out the little danger Cardiff posed.
Me too. It's a shame he's not a more physically imposing figure, he'd be perfect alongside Torres if he were 6'4".
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My MOTM for us tonight
Agreed, him and Garcia and Maatsen played very well.
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My MOTM for us tonight
Agreed, did well and snuffed out the little danger Cardiff posed.
Me too. It's a shame he's not a more physically imposing figure, he'd be perfect alongside Torres if he were 6'4".
Only 1” shorter than God!!
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The four back played well. Very comfortable most of the game
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The way we've integrated him feels a lot like how teams above us in the food chain bring their youth through.
Occasionally filling for injury, turning into filling in on merit and suddenly then just being a normal part of the first team squad furniture.
For most of the last thirty years it's been chuck them straight in the first team and see which ones sink and which ones swim, then either build all our hopes around them or bin them straight out.
It's been a great last few months for him.
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Class will out, it's in the genes.
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The one positive you can take from our barrage of injuries is it has pushed him into the spotlight and I suspect he’ll now stay there.
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Very fitting Dinas started this thread as well when they were taking him on-loan last year.
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Here's looking at you kid!
‘Bogart’ I think is showing up fantastically well in his defending and ability on the ball
but given financial concerns I do wonder if LB simply be sold or traded in the summer.
His stock has risen so could get a value £25m-£35m now rather than £15m -£20m .
I do hope it’s not one of those player academy exchanges and if he was sold then just have the money towards first team champions league experienced player.
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Now we know why Forest were looking to buy him last summer.
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I don't see Bogarde being sold this summer unless we really are up shits creek on transfer spending. His wages would be low and him also being an academy graduate gives us a name in any European squad we otherwise can't fill. We also have other players we will sell like Buendia and probably Mings which will bring in similar money.
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He covers three positions too, so probably better value to keep him rather than sign understudies for RB/DCM/DC
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He played well last night.
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Posts like ‘not a RB’ are a bit premature for a kid who’s played about ten first team games in their entire career.
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I think you can see where he's more comfortable though, which is central. Both centre half and defensive midfield, which is really helpful considering he's homegrown too. Barring a silly offer, doubt he'll be sold considering the paucity of homegrown options in the squad.
I like him, anyway. Has ability and is deceptively strong.
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He hasn't really looked comfortable at right back so far though. He looks fine in the middle.
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His composure on the ball means he looks good at centre back, where he can see the whole game, and in central midfield where you need guts and skill to take time on the ball.
But with our lop-sided back four/three, you can see why Unai might try and use him from time to time at right-back (i.e., not the bombing-on role).
Another sound game on Friday, in any event, albeit not the most testing.
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He hasn't really looked comfortable at right back so far though. He looks fine in the middle.
Yes and therefore getting Garcia has been an excellent move. And yes I think Lamare has great potential to succeed at the highest level.
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Class will out, it's in the genes.
Is that from Combat Rock or Sandanista ?
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He hasn't really looked comfortable at right back so far though. He looks fine in the middle.
My only concern with him in the middle came at Palace where I thought he struggled with the physical side of things and got bullied a bit. He's looked comfortable apart from that though.
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Yeah, like Mattsen he's a bit small and puny for away games at brutes like Palace, Barcodes and Forest.
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He's probably fine for the Konsa version of right-back, in an emergency.
Not for the Cash / Garcia version though.
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Bogarde comments on transfer links to Ajax
Aston Villa defender Lamare Bogarde has commented on transfer links to Ajax.
Bogarde, linked with a move to Sevilla in the January transfer window, has made 16 appearances across all competitions this season across multiple different positions.
His versatility has offered crucial relief to Unai Emery's injury-laden side, with Boubacar Kamara, Tyrone Mings, Matty Cash and Pau Torres all spending extended periods of time on the sidelines.
“It’s great that a big club like Ajax is interested in you," he told Dutch outlet Voetbal.
"Yes, with respect to Aston Villa, I am still under contract with them.
"My future will soon be more coming out. Right now, I’m just happy at Aston Villa. We will come to a decision together.”
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Stop chatting shit to your domestic press when on international duty, lads. It's the oldest trope in the book. Unai's blooding you as a utility player, be feckin' grateful you're not at Ajax listening to their dopey Mackem captain.
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I don't see much wrong with that, if he's asked a question about rumours of him going to Ajax I'm not sure what else he can say really. Maybe the last line could be taken as something but it could be that he's on the verge of signing a new deal with us so it doesn't really mean anything.
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I don't see much wrong with that, if he's asked a question about rumours of him going to Ajax I'm not sure what else he can say really. Maybe the last line could be taken as something but it could be that he's on the verge of signing a new deal with us so it doesn't really mean anything.
You don't see much wrong with that, a grown man being asked a reasonable question and him giving a sensible reply?! Are you some sort of Bloser, Paul? This is the worst thing that's ever happened anywhere. I'm crying salt tars here at what's become of this once-great institution. They're laughing at us in Penge. You might be able to take that, but I can't. He'll be learning Italian next, if he hasn't already, the Quisling.
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I don't see much wrong with that, if he's asked a question about rumours of him going to Ajax I'm not sure what else he can say really. Maybe the last line could be taken as something but it could be that he's on the verge of signing a new deal with us so it doesn't really mean anything.
You don't see much wrong with that, a grown man being asked a reasonable question and him giving a sensible reply?! Are you some sort of Bloser, Paul? This is the worst thing that's ever happened anywhere. I'm crying salt tars here at what's become of this once-great institution. They're laughing at us in Penge. You might be able to take that, but I can't. He'll be learning Italian next, if he hasn't already, the Quisling.
Yeah, and I bet he has been speaking Dutch as well over there.
It’s shocking.
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I don't see much wrong with that, if he's asked a question about rumours of him going to Ajax I'm not sure what else he can say really. Maybe the last line could be taken as something but it could be that he's on the verge of signing a new deal with us so it doesn't really mean anything.
You don't see much wrong with that, a grown man being asked a reasonable question and him giving a sensible reply?! Are you some sort of Bloser, Paul? This is the worst thing that's ever happened anywhere. I'm crying salt tars here at what's become of this once-great institution. They're laughing at us in Penge. You might be able to take that, but I can't. He'll be learning Italian next, if he hasn't already, the Quisling.
Yeah, and I bet he has been speaking Dutch as well over there.
It’s shocking.
So specifically on the final comments :
“My future will soon be more coming out. Right now, I’m just happy at Aston Villa. We will come to a decision together.”
I think there is either a new contract or a sale?
I think it all depends part on his appearances and performances and part on Villa performances qualifying /winning Champions League / FA Cup- to what occurs.
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Any Dutch quotes now I read in Steve McLaren , it takes the sting out of it all and allows a period of reflection before passing judgment.
Still trying to work out his best position, it may well be "utility" and that's no bad thing.
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How many games has he played at right back for us at senior level? I remember one appearance early on, which was a bit nervy, but might have been as much about inexperience as the position itself.
He’s improving with just about every outing and looks more and more composed. Great home grown, utility, squad option and a positive contributor to the wage/turnover ratio.
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Any Dutch quotes now I read in Steve McLaren , it takes the sting out of it all and allows a period of reflection before passing judgment.
Still trying to work out his best position, it may well be "utility" and that's no bad thing.
Whilst reading about Joey Barton's latest imbecility, I saw a clip of him doing an interview in English with a French accent, I mean I know its well down the list but I thought I might have heard about that before.
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Emery's known to not have been happy about selling Kellyman, but it was necessary because of our PSR position. I imagine it's the same with Bogarde. He won't want to sell him but if someone's prepared to pay a fortunate for him, it's something we'd no doubt consider. Last summer Forest wanted to pay £4m for him. We're not going to sell him for that sort of amount if we have to sell.
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Emery's known to not have been happy about selling Kellyman, but it was necessary because of our PSR position. I imagine it's the same with Bogarde. He won't want to sell him but if someone's prepared to pay a fortunate for him, it's something we'd no doubt consider. Last summer Forest wanted to pay £4m for him. We're not going to sell him for that sort of amount if we have to sell.
Indeed, he's now a player who has proven he can handle himself in the premier league and would probably get 25-30 starts for one of the weaker sides in the league. That makes him a £20m+ player in the current market.
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Sevilla rumoured to be interested according to the Beeb. I'd be sorry to see him go. He's progressing nicely.
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Aston Villa is delighted to announce that Lamare Bogarde has signed a new contract with the club.
The Dutch Under-21 international has been a regular in matchday squads for Villa this term, making 16 appearances in all competitions, including four in the Champions League.
A versatile player, capable of playing in defence and in midfield, Bogarde joined the club in the summer of 2020 from Feyenoord and has previously spent time on loan with Bristol Rovers.
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Great news.
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Good news. Bouba next please.
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Mmm, this is so we get a good price in the summer isnt it?
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That’s good to see.
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Mmm, this is so we get a good price in the summer isnt it?
No, not necessarily. Emery has shown a lot of faith in the boy. And until Kamara is re-contracted, DMF is an area we need to keep strong.
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I would like to see him in midfield alongside Kamara with a full strength defence behind him. I think he would show us how good he is.
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Couldn't even make the bench on Sat.
Hope this means we get an extra 5m from Ajax in the summer.
Only messin'. Hopefully. He's our greatest utilitarian since Simon "Larry" Grayson and Ricky Scimeca.
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Not forgetting Chris Herd...the Utility player's utility player.
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He's an ideal player for a European squad. I like him.
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Good news.
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I'm really pleased he's signed a new deal.
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Not forgetting Chris Herd...the Utility player's utility player.
Neil Cox for me.
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Could Carl Tiler put in a shift as a "6"?