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Author Topic: Dean Smith - Confirmed  (Read 550328 times)

Offline dave.woodhall

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8520 on: July 01, 2020, 10:57:34 AM »
Genuinely astonished as to why people would scoff at Dyche. It’s not always about champagne football, it’s about getting results to stay in the league with the big boys. How we can possibly not want a manager that has got a club as unfashionable as Burnley on the same number of points as Spurs,  when we are in fucking 19th fucking place and barely have a shot at goal let alone going somewhere like Palace and winning. His teams work their bollocks off and they are hard to beat, the complete antithesis of us. We’re powder puff, easy to play against, predictable, lazy, and fucking boring and we’ve got people turning their nose up at a manager like that. Get real.

Maybe part of the reason why Dyche is doing so well at Burnley is that they didn't sack him when they were relegated. 

And that they sacked someone else to appoint him in the first place. If you took that logic no club would sack anyone no mater how bad.

Dyche did well despite them going down, Smith has been dreadful all season. Indeed he was dreadful for large chunks of last season and had a good late run that looks more and more like a fluke by the day. He will not get us promoted again, we saw how he has us playing without Grealish in the Championship last season- terribly! Imagine how bad without Grealish, Mings, and McGinn plus Wesley instead of Abrahams. Be lucky if we didn't do a Sunderland with Smith managing that team.

Time to roll the dice.

Another manager took his team down but he'd done well, or at least he's done well since. Ours should be sacked because he's going to relegate us twice. Your hindsight is spot on but I'm not sure about your seeing into the future.

Offline hilts_coolerking

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8521 on: July 01, 2020, 11:03:28 AM »
I think appointing Dyche would be another instance of us appointing someone with no experience of what's he's being asked to do, i.e. make a big club successful.  I'm all for giving guys a chance to prove themselves but do we have to keep doing it?  Why not try to go for someone who has got some experience of making a big club successful?

Offline richtheholtender

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8522 on: July 01, 2020, 11:12:42 AM »
Would we be better off with;

Webster over Engels?
Philips over Nkamba?
Maupy over Wesley?
Benrhama over Tezuguet?



I get your point and agree with it to a degree. However, I don’t think we would be having the points raised on here if we were 4/5 places higher up the league. We will never know but I think there is a good chance we would be in that position if we had gone that extra mile and brought in Samatta (or another) In the summer. I think relying on Wesley up front for every minute for the first half of the Season and then Samatta for every minute since January has played a massive part of our downfall. Not only to rest them or drop them but the additional tactical options having another striker could have made would only have been positive. In typical Aston Villa fashion they did so much so fall short at the final hurdle.

Offline dave.woodhall

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8523 on: July 01, 2020, 11:26:10 AM »
Abraham in this team and we'd be at least where Brighton are, and probably with more points.

Offline ASHTONVILLA

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8524 on: July 01, 2020, 11:42:22 AM »
Another manager took his team down but he'd done well, or at least he's done well since. Ours should be sacked because he's going to relegate us twice. Your hindsight is spot on but I'm not sure about your seeing into the future.


He did well with a limited resource and at the time got a lot of praise for how well he did despite going down. I can see why they kept him. It all very much depends on what resource a relegated club had, and how well the manager did. If Huddersfield had got relegated first season up it would have been harsh on Wagner had they fired him as they played OK beyond expectations. in the end they just about stayed up.

Smith has not done well, we are not going down as plucky losers we are playing very poor football and have underachieved given the money spent. He also was poor last season when Grealish was out hence my comment that I can't see him doing well if we go down. He had a purple patch where everything clicked, as did Sherwood for a while. Been found wanting and can't see it improving. Obviously would love to be proven wrong though! I was happy with smith when we appointed him but it hasn't worked out. When things aren't working you need to change, not wait longer. We made that mistake with Lambert who also played good football with a smaller team before coming in and playing defensive anti-football with 'young and hungry' moneyball players. I wouldn't want Smith even if we manage to stay up, he just has not done well enough. Ditto Suso.

Not that Dyche would be my first choice as a replacement, but he definitely has a better track record. Would rather see us go for someone that has done well in similar circumstances with a bigger team like Benitez, though can't see that happening given his history with Purslow.


Offline KevinGage

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8525 on: July 01, 2020, 11:47:59 AM »
Sacking Dyche for Burnleh going down in 2015 would be the equivalent of us offing O'Neill for not making the knockout stages of the Champions League - had we ever qualified.

They were doing well to go up in the first place and didn't disgrace themselves in the top flight, even on Championship wages and budget back then.

Promotion then gave a small club with little debt the chance to invest and come back stronger when they did drop.

As comparisons go it's up there with apples and orangutans.

Offline dave.woodhall

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8526 on: July 01, 2020, 12:04:31 PM »
Another manager took his team down but he'd done well, or at least he's done well since. Ours should be sacked because he's going to relegate us twice. Your hindsight is spot on but I'm not sure about your seeing into the future.


He did well with a limited resource and at the time got a lot of praise for how well he did despite going down. I can see why they kept him. It all very much depends on what resource a relegated club had, and how well the manager did. If Huddersfield had got relegated first season up it would have been harsh on Wagner had they fired him as they played OK beyond expectations. in the end they just about stayed up.

Smith has not done well, we are not going down as plucky losers we are playing very poor football and have underachieved given the money spent. He also was poor last season when Grealish was out hence my comment that I can't see him doing well if we go down. He had a purple patch where everything clicked, as did Sherwood for a while. Been found wanting and can't see it improving. Obviously would love to be proven wrong though! I was happy with smith when we appointed him but it hasn't worked out. When things aren't working you need to change, not wait longer. We made that mistake with Lambert who also played good football with a smaller team before coming in and playing defensive anti-football with 'young and hungry' moneyball players. I wouldn't want Smith even if we manage to stay up, he just has not done well enough. Ditto Suso.

Not that Dyche would be my first choice as a replacement, but he definitely has a better track record. Would rather see us go for someone that has done well in similar circumstances with a bigger team like Benitez, though can't see that happening given his history with Purslow.



The money we spent last summer has been done to death - when the final whistle blew at Wembley we had at best three, maybe four players signed to us who were good enough for the Premier League. We had to sign practically an entire new squad while still keeping within FFP. In those circumstances I still fail to see how one manager is a plucky loser deserving of another chance while another isn't good enough, never has been and all his success was down to someone else.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 12:06:45 PM by dave.woodhall »

Offline Mister E

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8527 on: July 01, 2020, 12:08:16 PM »
The way I understood, as part of a long term strategy to ensure stability, the new management structure (DOF/head coach instead of manager) was brought in to enable the club to hire and fire quickly and easily without an O'Neill style hangover. Much was written about this southampton/Brentford model when we appointed Dean Smith. I've very suprised with the results he's still in charge. Althought, my statto friend tells me our xG stat has improved since the restart.
That approach assumes that the right DoF is in charge. Suso definitely ain't the man.

Offline PeterWithe

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8528 on: July 01, 2020, 12:12:31 PM »
I think when Dean gets the inevitable boot, he'll have a lot of regrets that his teams have rarely played the sort of football for which he was appointed. Its the choice of wide players recruited that puzzle me, so out of kilter with what we saw in his Brentford days.

Whenever I hear him speak I nearly always think, 'yes he knows what he wants to do' but we so rarely see on the field the game he's thought out in his head.

Offline The_ads

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8529 on: July 01, 2020, 12:16:14 PM »
He just looks found out to me, with the turning circle of a tanker and a lack of pace. Forget Webster, we'd have been better off signing Dawson from the Albion for half the price and some considerable experience.


And this in a nutshell is why the transfer policy has been a shit storm. All talk of planning ‘meticulously’ has resulted, in the main, in a load of unproven, average dross. Had our planning been some promise (Konsa, Wesley) along with some proven premier league players (Dawson, Rodriguez) and we’d have held our own because the bottom half of the premier league is really fucking average. Even now we aren’t adrift and we really should be

Offline Mister E

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8530 on: July 01, 2020, 12:17:11 PM »
I think appointing Dyche would be another instance of us appointing someone with no experience of what's he's being asked to do, i.e. make a big club successful.  I'm all for giving guys a chance to prove themselves but do we have to keep doing it?  Why not try to go for someone who has got some experience of making a big club successful?
This is really the killer point: we've spent loads of dosh (because we had to) but we put our faith in a manager with limited experience of the job expected of him.
Since the manager / head coach is one of the most important employees the club has, why leave the job in the hands of a relative novice*?


* I use this word to describe Smith because he has not - in his experience - done what this club has asked him to do this season. 

Offline Risso

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8531 on: July 01, 2020, 12:26:03 PM »
Abraham in this team and we'd be at least where Brighton are, and probably with more points.

Which wasn't ever going to be possible given Chelsea's situation.  So that being the case, attempting to replace somebody like Tammy with Wesley was ridiculous.

Offline LeeB

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8532 on: July 01, 2020, 12:33:13 PM »
Abraham in this team and we'd be at least where Brighton are, and probably with more points.

Which wasn't ever going to be possible given Chelsea's situation.  So that being the case, attempting to replace somebody like Tammy with Wesley was ridiculous.

What was the answer though? The Georides and Wet Spam both spunked twice what we did, and I'd argue we got the better player of the three.

Basically, we had a lot of jam but too many slices of toast.

Offline Risso

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8533 on: July 01, 2020, 12:37:29 PM »
I'm really not that bothered that other teams spent as badly as we did on a striker.  Despite that at least Newcastle have stayed out of trouble, and did sign that Saint-Maximin who looks like everything our useless wingers aren't.  Personally I'd have gone for Maupay.  Preferably as well as Wesley, but if the money wasn't available then instead of.  He's scored some very important goals for Brighton this year, quite a few of which have been match winners.

Offline chrisw1

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8534 on: July 01, 2020, 12:52:16 PM »
I'm really not that bothered that other teams spent as badly as we did on a striker.  Despite that at least Newcastle have stayed out of trouble, and did sign that Saint-Maximin who looks like everything our useless wingers aren't.  Personally I'd have gone for Maupay.  Preferably as well as Wesley, but if the money wasn't available then instead of.  He's scored some very important goals for Brighton this year, quite a few of which have been match winners.
I think we'd have beem much better off with Maupay too, but to put some perspective on it 8 goals for them is hardly prolific, considering Wesley scored 5 for us.

 


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