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Author Topic: Dean Smith - Confirmed  (Read 1522364 times)

Offline Ads

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8475 on: July 01, 2020, 08:57:39 AM »
Would we be better off with;

Webster over Engels?
Philips over Nkamba?
Maupy over Wesley?
Benrhama over Tezuguet?

Offline mr underhill

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8476 on: July 01, 2020, 08:58:39 AM »
yes

Offline Steve67

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8477 on: July 01, 2020, 09:03:36 AM »
Would we be better off with;

Webster over Engels?
Philips over Nkamba?
Maupy over Wesley?
Benrhama over Tezuguet?


I guess the obvious answer is yes, but then again, it also brings into question whether Dean Smith has coached them well enough?  Engels and Nakamba seem to have got steadily worse but was Trezeguet ever good enough.  Personally, I think we overpaid for Wesley but he isn't as bad as some make out.

Offline Risso

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8478 on: July 01, 2020, 09:10:31 AM »
Dyche is definitely better than what we currently have but I'm sure there are better managers than Dyche who we might consider.

....before giving the job to somebody worse than Smith.

Offline Risso

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8479 on: July 01, 2020, 09:21:27 AM »
Would we be better off with;

Webster over Engels?
Philips over Nkamba?
Maupy over Wesley?
Benrhama over Tezuguet?


I guess the obvious answer is yes, but then again, it also brings into question whether Dean Smith has coached them well enough?  Engels and Nakamba seem to have got steadily worse but was Trezeguet ever good enough.  Personally, I think we overpaid for Wesley but he isn't as bad as some make out.

Whether the criticism of Wesley is fair or not, I think it's fair to say that his natural game (no pace, hopeless in the air) doesn't seem particularly well suited to the Premier League.

Expecting a 22 year old Brazilian from the Belgian league to come in and be our main and pretty much only striker was utter madness and a real dereliction of duty.  The fact that he was backed up by Keinan Davis who makes Emile Heskey look prolific just makes it even worse.

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8480 on: July 01, 2020, 09:26:50 AM »
Dyche and the game away, Smith sprang 5 2 3 on him and the camera kept panning over to him looking like a rabbit in the headlights. He did react at halftime but then it was too late.
He is a conventional English manager but does not strike me as a top 6 Type manager and if we hire him we will know we are not a top 6 type club.
On balance I would keep Smith if the alternative is just more upheaval for the sake of it.

Offline chrisw1

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8481 on: July 01, 2020, 09:51:48 AM »
Would we be better off with;

Webster over Engels?
Philips over Nkamba?
Maupy over Wesley?
Benrhama over Tezuguet?


I guess the obvious answer is yes, but then again, it also brings into question whether Dean Smith has coached them well enough?  Engels and Nakamba seem to have got steadily worse but was Trezeguet ever good enough.  Personally, I think we overpaid for Wesley but he isn't as bad as some make out.

Whether the criticism of Wesley is fair or not, I think it's fair to say that his natural game (no pace, hopeless in the air) doesn't seem particularly well suited to the Premier League.

Expecting a 22 year old Brazilian from the Belgian league to come in and be our main and pretty much only striker was utter madness and a real dereliction of duty.  The fact that he was backed up by Keinan Davis who makes Emile Heskey look prolific just makes it even worse.
This is the biggest critisism.  I mentioned listening to a scouting podcast at the time we were signing him that basically said he wasn't suitable for all the reasons that turned out to be true.  If those guys knew that, why didn't we? 

And to answer ADS point - absolutely I think we'd have been safe with those alternative signings.  Yes they would have cost more but we coud have kept some squad players from last year and spent our money on fewer better signings.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 09:53:50 AM by chrisw1 »

Offline PeterWithe

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8482 on: July 01, 2020, 09:59:12 AM »
The concencus on here at the time was that buying him was a risk, only buying him seemed negligent.

Offline David_Nab

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8483 on: July 01, 2020, 10:25:52 AM »
Would we be better off with;

Webster over Engels?
Philips over Nkamba?
Maupy over Wesley?
Benrhama over Tezuguet?


I guess the obvious answer is yes, but then again, it also brings into question whether Dean Smith has coached them well enough?  Engels and Nakamba seem to have got steadily worse but was Trezeguet ever good enough.  Personally, I think we overpaid for Wesley but he isn't as bad as some make out.

Engels certainly started off well and in the early games he and Mings looked pretty decent together ,not sure if its coaching / niggly injuries or loss of confidence which effected him but he has gone off the boil.

Trez had some bright spots at times as well but as gone backwards. Not every transfer works out as we have seen for years so if you bring in as many as we did some just won't work out but elevate the risk of failure buy buying so many players untested not only in this league but higher level overseas leagues.

What needs to be taken into account as well is wages we went to the cheaper leagues as the wage demands were lower for those players and we were working within FFP.Also I saw our payments to agents was one of the lowest in the league.

Offline ASHTONVILLA

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8484 on: July 01, 2020, 10:42:10 AM »
Genuinely astonished as to why people would scoff at Dyche. It’s not always about champagne football, it’s about getting results to stay in the league with the big boys. How we can possibly not want a manager that has got a club as unfashionable as Burnley on the same number of points as Spurs,  when we are in fucking 19th fucking place and barely have a shot at goal let alone going somewhere like Palace and winning. His teams work their bollocks off and they are hard to beat, the complete antithesis of us. We’re powder puff, easy to play against, predictable, lazy, and fucking boring and we’ve got people turning their nose up at a manager like that. Get real.

Maybe part of the reason why Dyche is doing so well at Burnley is that they didn't sack him when they were relegated. 

And that they sacked someone else to appoint him in the first place. If you took that logic no club would sack anyone no mater how bad.

Dyche did well despite them going down, Smith has been dreadful all season. Indeed he was dreadful for large chunks of last season and had a good late run that looks more and more like a fluke by the day. He will not get us promoted again, we saw how he has us playing without Grealish in the Championship last season- terribly! Imagine how bad without Grealish, Mings, and McGinn plus Wesley instead of Abrahams. Be lucky if we didn't do a Sunderland with Smith managing that team.

Time to roll the dice.

Offline hilts_coolerking

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8485 on: July 01, 2020, 10:47:32 AM »
I'm willing to give Engels a pass as it has been suggested he had a falling out with Dean and never got much of a look in after that.  He did look pretty good early season.

Offline LeeB

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8486 on: July 01, 2020, 10:57:07 AM »
He just looks found out to me, with the turning circle of a tanker and a lack of pace. Forget Webster, we'd have been better off signing Dawson from the Albion for half the price and some considerable experience.

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8487 on: July 01, 2020, 10:57:34 AM »
Genuinely astonished as to why people would scoff at Dyche. It’s not always about champagne football, it’s about getting results to stay in the league with the big boys. How we can possibly not want a manager that has got a club as unfashionable as Burnley on the same number of points as Spurs,  when we are in fucking 19th fucking place and barely have a shot at goal let alone going somewhere like Palace and winning. His teams work their bollocks off and they are hard to beat, the complete antithesis of us. We’re powder puff, easy to play against, predictable, lazy, and fucking boring and we’ve got people turning their nose up at a manager like that. Get real.

Maybe part of the reason why Dyche is doing so well at Burnley is that they didn't sack him when they were relegated. 

And that they sacked someone else to appoint him in the first place. If you took that logic no club would sack anyone no mater how bad.

Dyche did well despite them going down, Smith has been dreadful all season. Indeed he was dreadful for large chunks of last season and had a good late run that looks more and more like a fluke by the day. He will not get us promoted again, we saw how he has us playing without Grealish in the Championship last season- terribly! Imagine how bad without Grealish, Mings, and McGinn plus Wesley instead of Abrahams. Be lucky if we didn't do a Sunderland with Smith managing that team.

Time to roll the dice.

Another manager took his team down but he'd done well, or at least he's done well since. Ours should be sacked because he's going to relegate us twice. Your hindsight is spot on but I'm not sure about your seeing into the future.

Offline hilts_coolerking

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8488 on: July 01, 2020, 11:03:28 AM »
I think appointing Dyche would be another instance of us appointing someone with no experience of what's he's being asked to do, i.e. make a big club successful.  I'm all for giving guys a chance to prove themselves but do we have to keep doing it?  Why not try to go for someone who has got some experience of making a big club successful?

richtheholtender

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8489 on: July 01, 2020, 11:12:42 AM »
Would we be better off with;

Webster over Engels?
Philips over Nkamba?
Maupy over Wesley?
Benrhama over Tezuguet?



I get your point and agree with it to a degree. However, I don’t think we would be having the points raised on here if we were 4/5 places higher up the league. We will never know but I think there is a good chance we would be in that position if we had gone that extra mile and brought in Samatta (or another) In the summer. I think relying on Wesley up front for every minute for the first half of the Season and then Samatta for every minute since January has played a massive part of our downfall. Not only to rest them or drop them but the additional tactical options having another striker could have made would only have been positive. In typical Aston Villa fashion they did so much so fall short at the final hurdle.

 


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