NSWE Investment

[jon collett]

Well said both!

Current Holte End is a pastiche of Trinity Road which was a pastiche of Aston Hall.

I don’t have any gripes about building a new ground on the site or nearby. I do have a problem with people who don’t understand the Club’s history or support trying to relocate us to inner Birmingham!

[N'ZMAV]

Fuck it, give them a million quid per house. It'll be cheaper than buying up a whole new site.

would be interesting to see how Birmingham City Council would handle that. I imagine there are a few of their tenants in the areas of VP.

[pauliewalnuts]

I am also not a structural engineer but what I do know is that train lines don’t just do right angle turns.

Who has mentioned trains turning at right angles?

Well, you were suggesting building a station behind the North Stand - how much land do you think making a train line divert from the current line to that location would require, and how do you think the line would link up back with the existing line?

The problem isn't train stations. There are two of them, one at either end of the ground, there are not many grounds in this country who could say that. The problem is the stations can't handle capacity, and the people providing the trains don't seem to give a flying fuck about providing that capacity in the first place.

Two things, from that - first, if we could get that sorted, yes, we'd be at least partly solving a problem which means the transport situation right now for 40k is absolutely chronic. But is that going to be enough to handle 50k? or 60k?

And even then, if were were to be able to solve that, that's only a part of the problem, there's then the challenge that most people come by road, not rail.

Again here, you could look at it and say, the ground is a stone's throw from the centre of the national motorway network, there are plenty of buses from the city centre, there are industrial units that open up for parking on match day - yet, given all that already being in place, it is still an absolute nightmare getting to and from the ground by road.

So there's all that, but then we're still stuck with a hemmed in ground on a small plot, which is in parts horribly outdated and in need of at the very least half of it being rebuilt, because it's also a lopsided plot.

If you are Heck, and you've got to deliver long term massive improvement in commercial revenues, and you've got all these infrastructure problems you have to solve, and even then, if you can get them all solved, you've still got the problem that the facilities in half your stadium are crap, you've got glassed-in, indoor executive boxes in half the ground (something that really went out in the 80s, and that are never going to sell for big money), what do you do then?

It's problem after problem. I don't like Heck, I don't trust him, but although I was annoyed when he binned the North Stand project, there's another way of looking at that, too, which is that once the first spade goes in the ground on that, you're committing us to having to fix all the above problems on the current location.

I didn't mention behind the North Stand, just on the site. For your benefit, I'll draw you a couple of pictures. The first is how a line could theoretically run once the existing VP is gone. The second is an existing curved line running under the expressway to illustrate that rails can curve, not turn at right angles.





Meanwhile, your penultimate paragraph supports a new build. I'm saying why not in Aston? Very close to what we call home. Rather than on a hypothetical site in the city centre that just doesn't exist and, in common with a lot of the inner city, suffers with traffic problems.

Yes, Chris, I know rails can curve - that's my entire point.

They curve and that curve has to happen over a considerable area (that's where my sarcy 'right angles' comment came from).

I would also point out, your diagram doesn't show how the trains get back on the line in the other direction, what with all those houses in the way.

On top of that, where's the room coming from to build a new station, in an area backing up against residential houses?

Again - we can't get them to expand the platform on the existing station and run the appropriate services so how do you reckon we get them to do this? And once more, that's just to move the station closer to the ground.

It's dreamworld stuff, I'm afraid, and even if - if - they could do all the above, they're still left building an entire new ground because you've shifted it 500 yards south to make room for a new train station.

And then what about the people who don't come by train?

[pauliewalnuts]

Fuck it, give them a million quid per house. It'll be cheaper than buying up a whole new site.

would be interesting to see how Birmingham City Council would handle that. I imagine there are a few of their tenants in the areas of VP.

I bet there are hardly any anywhere near the ground now they've demolished all the council housing up aston hall road - those are all privately owned houses.

[Chris Harte]

Paulie,  in my concept there are no houses there.

If you know trains can curve then why talk about them turning at right angles?

I've (in my concept) shifted the stadium by around 200m (not 500m) to build a bigger stadium. Something amazing. In Aston.

Your comment about those not travelling by train is fair. But then the same will be applicable to a place somewhere in the centre.

[Demitri_C]

A lot of the reason why away supporters love Villa Park is because we spent a decade and more giving them three points as a going-away present. A couple of seasons losing here and they'll change their minds

What's your thoughts in moving dave ? Are in favour or stayjng or moving.

Completely agree manure would hate playing at a new villa park because its like a 2nd home ground. They probably have more wins there than mould trafford

[Chris Harte]

One other thing, Paulie, you're probably right about it being dreamworld stuff. But then so is a stadium in the city centre.

You don't like my idea and I don't like the idea of a city centre.stadium. That much is clear.

The.only thing that'll resolve this is time, as in when the club choose to announce what the plan, in fact, is.

[Somniloquism]

I’m really struggling to think of anywhere in the city that’s suitable for us to build a new ground on.  The Alex? Maybe?

That is my problem with Ads, Risso and others stating build it there. PW stated the same as well without mentioning any sites, supposedly because he isn't a property developer (as if knowing a subject has ever stopped anyone on here from making a comment about anything). He now seems to be side tracked by, erm side tracks.

I just do not see any area within the ring road where our super sized stadium could go. IF we need to be closer to the city centre, I still think the area the industrial area were the Royal Mail depot is the best for still having decent road transport and closer to the centre for walking etc (about on par with Wheelers). However we do lose any close train stations apart from the city centre ones. After that we are looking either industrial estate off Electric Avenue, or further afield (South or East Birmingham). My honest opinion is if they are thinking of a new stadium, they they might fall back on the old NEC plans that were always discussed.

If our council were not skint, we should have been used as the centre piece to revitalise the area around the Ground (like they are proposing with Trafford and Bloose are stating with Wheelers). It could even have been used as an excuse for redesigning the Gravelly entrance of the M6 with traffic not having to use the island if they want to go anywhere in brum not reached by the Expressway.

[Ads]

We buy the land. I'm not the £6bn fund, the de facto investment vehicle for Comcast and their $156bn market cap, who have expertise in US stadia. I'm a supporter who is fed up of the children of Ellis clinging to something that's been redeveloped, poorly on the whole, multiple times.in 100+ years. The best bit being something Lerner did about 15 years ago.

Villa Park is holding us back. If the only argument you have is that you liked the smell of the walk back in nineteen dickety two when the Kaiser was building Dreadnaughts then its time to move aside, as you're letting West Ham and the like build memories that should be ours.

[BC Villain]

Having had time to sleep on it, I'm still dead set against moving from Villa Park. However, if we were to do similar to what Spurs have done then that might be acceptable to me.

If we did what Spurs did, where would we move to while Villa Park was rebuilt?  I know tbe council are desperate for the Alexander Stadium to be used more, but surely that's far too small?

[dave.woodhall]

A lot of the reason why away supporters love Villa Park is because we spent a decade and more giving them three points as a going-away present. A couple of seasons losing here and they'll change their minds

What's your thoughts in moving dave ? Are in favour or stayjng or moving.

Completely agree manure would hate playing at a new villa park because its like a 2nd home ground. They probably have more wins there than mould trafford

I don't know. Villa Park is an incredibly wonderful place in the perfect location for a football ground but it can't be expanded much beyond what we have now. On the other hand none of us have yet come up with a viable place to move to. There doesn't seem to be anywhere between us and Up Town while the NEC is a non-starter for many reasons.

[Ads]

Why would you want to build in Aston? It's a deprived inner city suburb, common the country over. You wouldn't choose to build the centerpiece entertainment venue for the region in Aston. You'd whack it bang where everybody can enjoy it, all year round; you build in the centre. Where all the regions transport interconnects, where more public transport is being added, where you're about 10 mins train shuttle fom the airport. Where northern, southern and regional Villa can hop off the train less than 2 hours away from just about anywhere in the country (that isn't Aberystwyth!). Where you have foot traffic all year round for your bars, restaurant, conference facilities, gigs and all the other stuff absolutely required to avoid selling Douglas Luiz et al up the food chain every other year.

[Risso]

It doesn't have to be an area where there's nothing there already. One of the things that never ceases to amaze me is the massive redevelopment in London. They'll knock down whole blocks and just replace what was there with newer buildings. So if there's somewhere that's a bit rundown and could do with a lift, talk to the council. Dale End, there's bugger all there any more.

[Somniloquism]

Well at least we know why people think we can build it in the city centre! Apparently something with the footprint of a 60k stadium is the same as building something with the footprint of an office block.

[Risso]

Well at least we know why people think we can build it in the city centre! Apparently something with the footprint of a 60k stadium is the same as building something with the footprint of an office block.

It's not, and nobody said it was. What do you think was there in London before Arsenal built their new stadium, a conveniently empty 15 acre car park that everybody had forgotten about?