NSWE Investment

[wince]

Villa Park is like Trigger's Broom. You're lusting over something than doesn't exist with references to 1897. Dynasties build things. The Flavian Amphitheatre was a new ground once. Let's build it in Town, damn the expense and have the greatest monument to football in the country.

Random observation, but I notice that very often, when non Villa fans talk about Villa Park, they invariably talk in hushed tones about the history of, errr, the Holte steps, seemingly thinking they're Victorian rather than 30 years old.
,

Always been on the lower gardens of Aston Hall though.

[The Edge]

Having had time to sleep on it, I'm still dead set against moving from Villa Park. However, if we were to do similar to what Spurs have done then that might be acceptable to me.

I'm thinking literally that we move over to the other side of Witton Lane. This would of course mean buying the housing estate opposite the current site (so, Holte Rd, Yew Tree Rd, Village Rd, etc) and so would be potentially unpalateable to many people, not least the residents. That said, if Villa (or the holding company) are prepared to compensate existing residents adequately/fairly then, combined with a local government who are skint then it perhaps could be a goer.

I envisange the new centre spot being roughly in line with the back of the present Holte End giving a potential footprint from it that extends out to a 150m radius (similar to Spurs and Arsenal, see image below). I imagine then that new stands would be built to mirror (in location, if not in design) the North, Doug Ellis and Holte End stands. The new stadium opens with only the three new stands, meanwhile the existing Villa Park is demolished allowing the final stand to be built over the existing Witton Lane and existing Doug Ellis stand. The advantage of this is that, unlike Spurs, we don't have to decamp elsewhere during construction. Instead we move into a new, three-quarters built stadium (presumably with a capacity around that or more of the current Villa Park).

Also, with this suggestion, pre- and post-match habits don't have to change significantly if people don't want them to. They can park where they do presently, go to the same pub and chippy as they do presently. Even if this isn't a big deal to yourself, you'll certainly know other fans for who it would be a big deal.

In terms of infrastructure, there would now be space for a "Villa Live" type venue, as well as an improved club shop and whatever attractions they can dream up, giving people a reason not to just rush off after games (at least for sensibly timed weekend games). And with the space thats available after the demolishion of old VP, possibly a new rail station with multiple platforms to get people away to New St, Erdington/Sutton, Walsall and beyond. I know this last bit needs a lot of co-operation with multiple third parties, but if we're going big then why not? Also, if they is co-operation with local authorities then a temporary one-way system down Aston Hall Rd towards Spaghetti Junction (like they used to do).

I also realise this doesn't answer the obvious "what's in it for those providing the funds?" question, but if they've done this sort of thing elsewhere then why not for us?

Casually throw in the need to buy hundreds of homes there, like it’s easy. It isn’t.

We’ve got space for a Villa Live and bigger shop where we are now.

You’re going to build a new station where the current site. What about the actual train line? If we could do that, we’d just be paying for the existing station to be improved.

The problem is, we are in an area where it made sense to have a football ground in the late Victorian years but does not now.

Risso is right, Aston is a ropey deprived area which offers nothing, not even pubs now

I love our history and my family have been going to Villa Park since it was built. But they lived on Nelson Rd, Endicott Rd, Witton Road, Mansfield Road. Then they’d go to the many local pubs after.

The people who live in those roads now mostly have no interest, and there isn’t a market for pubs that only do decent trade for three hours 19 times a year.

It will be sad but there is now no way to compete without earning the money to do so. We can’t even just spend the money our owners  want to spend.

The comparison with Ellis and 1992 is spot on. We’re approaching a turning point and the choice is going to be to stay as we are and be as relevant as Albion or Blues and just accept it, or face up to facts and do something to remain the big club we think we are.

All well and good but where? It's been done to death on here. There is nowhere in the area that is suitable. And there's absolutely no way we should even consider moving out of the area. NEC? No thanks. And no  homes would be affected if we just moved the ground towards the park.

[Chris Harte]

Casually throw in the need to buy hundreds of homes there, like it’s easy. It isn’t.

It wasn't casually thrown in. It was pretty much the first thing I said, admitting that it was an issue that would need resolving fairly.

You’re going to build a new station where the current site. What about the actual train line? If we could do that, we’d just be paying for the existing station to be improved.

You're understating it. Yes there will be a need for more track. But the station thing isn't about replacing like-for-like, in my mind. A new station might require more platforms to help facilitate the extra people.

Risso is right, Aston is a ropey deprived area which offers nothing, not even pubs now

If you think there are no pubs in Aston now then I ain't gonna try to change your mind.

[pauliewalnuts]

So, in a climate in which we can’t even get a platform already in existence elongated, you reckon we can divert a train line through a residential area and just build a new station - also right up to the back of another residential area? Have you thought this through?

Train tracks don’t do right angles so imagine how much land would be needed to achieve the curve of the track. Whom would be paying for that and how many hundreds more houses would need to be demolished?

It’s all well and good the houses purchase needing to be done quickly but that’s just not possible. Look how much time and how much despicable behaviour it took Liverpool to do it.

And even if you could do all of this, we would be building an entire new ground on the current site?

If they really wanted that they’d have just built the new north stand as planned and then done the house purchase thing on the houses behind the current Witton and built bigger there.

[Ads]

A city centre ground would be able to capture custom all year round to. In town? Oh go on then, let's pop to the Villa in-between a mooch round the shops. Served by 3 large stations too and soon an ever expanding tram network for Yam-Yam Villa to.hop aboard up the Hagley Road. Plus booting out commercial entities is far less morally dubious than CPO for family homes.

[Chris Harte]

So, in a climate in which we can’t even get a platform already in existence elongated, you reckon we can divert a train line through a residential area and just build a new station - also right up to the back of another residential area? Have you thought this through?

I have thought about it and I know it's a big ask. But something needs to be done on the site if we are staying putt and if our owners are as big-thinking as we'd like them to be then why not?

It’s all well and good the houses purchase needing to be done quickly but that’s just not possible. Look how much time and how much despicable behaviour it took Liverpool to do it.

Well no-one mentioned quickly, but the process could perhaps have a footrace with your non-existant site for a city centre stadium.

And even if you could do all of this, we would be building an entire new ground on the current site?

This tells me more than anything else you've written that you've not properly absorbed my post.

If the really wanted that they’d have just built the new north stand as planned and then done the house purchase thing on the houses behind the current Witton and built bigger there.

Well you keep telling us we're on the move, and they cancelled the North Stand project. If they were going to go with something remotely like I've described (and I've no reason to think that they will) then cancelling the North Stand project makes sense.

[Somniloquism]

So, in a climate in which we can’t even get a platform already in existence elongated, you reckon we can divert a train line through a residential area and just build a new station - also right up to the back of another residential area? Have you thought this through?

It’s all well and good the houses purchase needing to be done quickly but that’s just not possible. Look how much time and how much despicable behaviour it took Liverpool to do it.

And even if you could do all of this, we would be building an entire new ground on the current site?

If the really wanted that they’d have just built the new north stand as planned and then done the house purchase thing on the houses behind the current Witton and built bigger there.

Whilst I don't doubt your arguments for a different place, you seem to raise lots of concerns with the current plans being put forward for staying in the locale, but then all we hear from you and others is "Build it in the city centre."

No ideas on where (Birmingham is all hills, and the area around the city centre is either already being developed or is as contaminated as the Wheels site is). Or is full of old houses which you have already moaned about buying.

And we don't actually have many train stations around.

My personal idea might be the business land where the Royal Mail offices are now. Mostly flat and close enough to the A34 and A38 for driving in, closer to the city centre for other transport options (About 10 different buses travel down the A34 and the 8 circular is close, plus the cycle lane for the scooter hires etc), is flat enough and also close to the Aston Uni if they build any entertainment options for people doing stuff other then supporters. Their might be contaminates from the business there, but hopefully not as much being as most of the factories have only been there for 40 years rather then hundreds.

[Toronto Villa]

I’ve fully come round to moving to a new stadium. I love Villa Park. It’s so much of our lives growing up. But the game has moved on so much that we have been left behind commercially. City Centre stadium is the way to go.

[Villan82]

I think 'Big Construction' has got to a lot of you!

More serious for a moment, I think the way the pendulum has swung here from the genuine excitement of 2022's plans to a desire to move suggests there must be serious whisperings now and I suppose history and sentiment can just be collateral damage to all of that which is a shame given how we all stood by the club in the bad times.

If you think a new city centre brand new build will recapture of the magic of say the old Trinity I would brace yourself to be disappointed as it's much more likely it would be indistinguishable from all the other boring bowls.

[pauliewalnuts]

So, in a climate in which we can’t even get a platform already in existence elongated, you reckon we can divert a train line through a residential area and just build a new station - also right up to the back of another residential area? Have you thought this through?

It’s all well and good the houses purchase needing to be done quickly but that’s just not possible. Look how much time and how much despicable behaviour it took Liverpool to do it.

And even if you could do all of this, we would be building an entire new ground on the current site?

If the really wanted that they’d have just built the new north stand as planned and then done the house purchase thing on the houses behind the current Witton and built bigger there.

Whilst I don't doubt your arguments for a different place, you seem to raise lots of concerns with the current plans being put forward for staying in the locale, but then all we hear from you and others is "Build it in the city centre."

No ideas on where (Birmingham is all hills, and the area around the city centre is either already being developed or is as contaminated as the Wheels site is). Or is full of old houses which you have already moaned about buying.

And we don't actually have many train stations around.

My personal idea might be the business land where the Royal Mail offices are now. Mostly flat and close enough to the A34 and A38 for driving in, closer to the city centre for other transport options (About 10 different buses travel down the A34 and the 8 circular is close, plus the cycle lane for the scooter hires etc), is flat enough and also close to the Aston Uni if they build any entertainment options for people doing stuff other then supporters. Their might be contaminates from the business there, but hopefully not as much being as most of the factories have only been there for 40 years rather then hundreds.

I haven’t moaned about buying old houses, I pointed out that it is legally very difficult to do and can take literally decades even if you reduce yourselves to behaving as Liverpool did and ignore the fact they’re not just houses, they are homes.

I haven’t identified a city centre site but then again I’m not in the property business.

I am also not a structural engineer but what I do know is that train lines don’t just do right angle turns, and that the proximity of the station to the ground is not the problem.

We don’t have the time to spend decades buying old houses - just imagine how many more houses we would need to buy if we decided to build a new train station and a spur to the existing line- nor can we just magically build a new station outside our front door.

It’s not about what I want us to do or what any of us want, it’s about what the club needs to do to compete.

They’ve sent us a pretty clear signal by binning the plans - plans we will have sunk hundreds of thousands of pounds and thousands of hours into.

What we can’t do is just pootle along as we are because there is no way we can compete financially like that.

[Toronto Villa]

It’s about having the best stadium possible, that generates the most revenues and critically allows us to keep more of our best players for longer. The design would be critical to make it look as much like Villa Park as possible with a modern feel. But we need to be able to compete at the top end and not constantly be wary of FFP because what comes in isn’t enough to cover what we need to continuously grow and improve.

[Ads]

I think 'Big Construction' has got to a lot of you!

More serious for a moment, I think the way the pendulum has swung here from the genuine excitement of 2022's plans to a desire to move suggests there must be serious whisperings now and I suppose history and sentiment can just be collateral damage to all of that which is a shame given how we all stood by the club in the bad times.

If you think a new city centre brand new build will recapture of the magic of say the old Trinity I would brace yourself to be disappointed as it's much more likely it would be indistinguishable from all the other boring bowls.

The Trinity was knocked down 24 years ago. As we've seen with the Holte, it's quite easy to do mock Victorian or Edwardian architecture without the stand being tiny or having roof sports blocking your view. Bring on modernity.

[Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle]

I have a dream and it's a huge megabowl on Sherlock St.

[Chris Harte]

I am also not a structural engineer but what I do know is that train lines don’t just do right angle turns.

Who has mentioned trains turning at right angles?

[Ads]

I have a dream and it's a huge megabowl on Sherlock St.

We'd have a Legia situation in the away end if we drew the Noses in the cup.