Bottler to manage grief merchants?

[Dave]

I’d much rather there was more transparency surrounding club finances and the transfer market. Until that happens, I’ll keep referencing the sites that I think have the best info and data. At the moment, transfermarkt.co.uk is the most comprehensive for player info and data that I know. If anyone knows a better one then please let me know but it isn't the one Paulie linked to.

It's much more accurate than the one you chose, with its 20m pound David Bentley.

Incidentally, Kaboul didn't join last summer, Sandro cost 6m and VdV was widely reported to have cost 8.

With your looseness with figures (ie 14m this summer, not 23m), it's really no wonder you get yourself so worked up about Spurs all the time.

Soccerbase always seems more or less accurate.

I'm pretty sure they don't have Petrov costing us £9m or Ashley Young costing £11.8m either.

[KevinGage]

For someone with such an obvious fetish for stats I find it hard to understand why they are so frequently wrong.

If I was cynical I would stay it's a sad, desperate attempt to prop up an already piss poor argument.

But I'm not, so I won't.

[Villa'Zawg]

According to their annual accounts reports, Spurs spent £262.4m on player transfers between summer 2006/2007 and the start of last season.

Since then they've bought Kaboul, Van der Vaart and Sandro.

Is that OK?

[pauliewalnuts]

According to their annual accounts reports, Spurs spent £262.4m on player transfers between summer 2006/2007 and the start of last season.

Since then they've bought Kaboul, Van der Vaart and Sandro.

Is that OK?

Oh, it's ok, it's just that you said they bought Kaboul in the summer. And then gave overinflated figures for two of the players they did buy. And then claimed that some random German site where David Bentley cost them 20m is the most reliable source for transfer fees.

Before and after all of the above, there was some tedious dirge about Spurs which caused my eyes to glaze over.

Still, if it wasn't Spurs, it'd be something else being used to make MON's achievements look superhuman, I guess.

[dave.woodhall]

According to their annual accounts reports, Spurs spent £262.4m on player transfers between summer 2006/2007 and the start of last season.

Since then they've bought Kaboul, Van der Vaart and Sandro.

Is that OK?

According to Spurs' accounts they spend less on wages than we do. Spurs' accounts seem to vary in reliability from Rosetta Stone to Hitler Diaries to suit.

[pauliewalnuts]

According to their annual accounts reports, Spurs spent £262.4m on player transfers between summer 2006/2007 and the start of last season.

Since then they've bought Kaboul, Van der Vaart and Sandro.

Is that OK?

According to Spurs' accounts they spend less on wages than we do. Spurs' accounts seem to vary in reliability from Rosetta Stone to Hitler Diaries to suit.

Two years ago, he was telling us we'd overtaken Spurs etc etc etc.

Now he's telling us we're lucky to be on the same spreadsheet as them, let alone in the same league. Apart from anything else, I don't see the need to compare us against Spurs at every opportunity.

What's more, it was only six months ago that he was telling me he'd seen the light from the days of demanding big spending, and was convinced that the slow, incremental way is the way to do it.

Now, it seems there's a direct correlation between money spent and league place (which seemed to desert Spurs two years ago, but hey ho), the quality of football doesn't matter, and we can only expect failure with our stingey ways.

[BannedUserIAT]

Without a doubt it was an opportunity missed. The missing was done by O'Neill, who inherited the most ideal conditions any Villa manager has ever known, and couldn't in rough terms do any better than John Gregory.

And in turn, Houiller has inherited a very good squad.

It certainly has the potential to be a very well balanced starting eleven but not brilliant in depth.
We don't have much in the locker as far as game-changing players go but I don't think Houllier (with the knowledge and contacts he supposedly has) will find it too hard a challenge to find a player or two who can give us that ability.

There's a few players that either need to be re-energised and introduced back into the squad or shipped out, there's a delay on some injured players but all in all, Houllier doesn't have to completely start from scratch and re-build everything. MoN seemed to have a good plan happening then must have stuck that plan through the wash by mistake and never quite remembered what it was he was supposed to do.

[KevinGage]

We don't have much in the locker as far as game-changing players go but I don't think Houllier (with the knowledge and contacts he supposedly has) will find it too hard a challenge to find a player or two who can give us that ability. .

I think we do Troy.

I struggle to recall a time when we had a better creative arsenal than Ashley Young, Stephen Ireland, Stewart Downing and Marc Albrighton on the books. With Delph to return too, lets not forget.

What we need is the balance and the player (s) to sit and let our creative types do their thing.

And someone to finish off the chances created, of course.

[pauliewalnuts]

We don't have much in the locker as far as game-changing players go but I don't think Houllier (with the knowledge and contacts he supposedly has) will find it too hard a challenge to find a player or two who can give us that ability. .

I think we do Troy.

I struggle to recall a time when we had a better creative arsenal than Ashley Young, Stephen Ireland, Stewart Downing and Marc Albrighton on the books. With Delph to return too, lets not forget.

What we need is the balance and the player (s) to sit and let our creative types do their thing.

And someone to finish off the chances created, of course.

I agree.

The thing we've so plainly lacked this season so far is bottle. We've shown - at least in spells - that we've got a bit of guile when we need it, but the lack of bottle has let us down several times.

[Mazrim]

Sorry, wrong thread.

[KevinGage]

That's indicative of a lack of confidence too though.

Starting brightly but going to pieces when we score. In fact I'd say it's more a confidence thing than a bottle job. It's virtually the same set of players as last year.

Dunne concerns me though. Not just his early pre season form and weight. But the injury he's carrying is a long-standing one. It's not the kind of thing you shrug off in a few weeks.
He's had it for a few years and we could be seeing a player facing the death rattle  of his career.

When you lack that stability and organisation at the back -as we do at present- it affects the whole side. A fully fit and functioning Dunne and I'd wager we'd have seen the Stoke game through. I doubt we'd have been battered by Newcastle either.

[Villa'Zawg]

According to their annual accounts reports, Spurs spent £262.4m on player transfers between summer 2006/2007 and the start of last season.

Since then they've bought Kaboul, Van der Vaart and Sandro.

Is that OK?

Oh, it's ok, it's just that you said they bought Kaboul in the summer. And then gave overinflated figures for two of the players they did buy. And then claimed that some random German site where David Bentley cost them 20m is the most reliable source for transfer fees.

Before and after all of the above, there was some tedious dirge about Spurs which caused my eyes to glaze over.

Still, if it wasn't Spurs, it'd be something else being used to make MON's achievements look superhuman, I guess.

You're right, I should have said since the start of last season (when the official accounts figures run to) they've added Kaboul (£5m), Van der Vaart (£9m) and Sandro (£9m). As I explained, the figures for those 3 players are taken from the website I referenced earlier.

I said that the website transfermarkt.co.uk is the best one I know. Having compared all of the transfer prices they list against the Spurs accounts, they are about 10% too high overall. That's a lot closer than the website and figures you suggested, Soccerbase has too many players listed only as "signed", so yes, it is the best source of that information that I know of.

Still, we now know that Spurs have spent £262.4m and have since added Kaboul, Van der Vaart and Sandro. I reckon that's about double what we have spent during the same time.

[dave.woodhall]

As we've already shown its Villa figures are plucked out of thin air, you'll excuse me for treating anything else it says with a great deal of suspicion.

[ktvillan]

Without a doubt it was an opportunity missed. The missing was done by O'Neill, who inherited the most ideal conditions any Villa manager has ever known, and couldn't in rough terms do any better than John Gregory.

Absolutely.  That's how I will remember MON's regin, as probably the biggest wasted opportunity in the club's history.

[peter w]

I'm not going to slag him off but I'd like to know the full story. Because it just looks to me like he had a lot of resources behind him, was asked to help clear some of the decks before anybody else came in (which is fair enough, they were his crew that were not scrubbing up after all) and he'd decided he'd had enough and left us at the worst possible time, he also took most of the first team coaching staff with him. I can't forgive him for that.

We had a really encouraging few years and then cracks were starting to appear and the football was becoming turgid. In pre season he just looked depressed and vacant. He should have decided to leave there and then but he didn't. So I dont blame people for thinking the timing of his departure was vindictive. It was at least disrespectful, unprofessional and arrogant.

He's a good if limited manager and I don't hate him but I've lost most of the respect I ever had for him and think Randy at least deserved better than this. We deserved better than this.
I just hope Houllier does well and we can draw a line under this sorry episode as soon as possible.

What I don't agree with here Maz is the 'He took most of the coaching staff him' bit. I think they followed out of a sense of loyalty to O'Neill. The board knew they came as a package when employing them so must have known that they would eventually leave as a package.