Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Rip Van We Go Again on September 20, 2010, 08:16:46 AM
-
From dailystar.co.uk
Martin O’Neill is in line for a sensational return to football – as the next Liverpool boss.
Two of the consortiums trying to buy the Merseyside club want to take ex-Aston Villa chief O’Neill to Anfield if they are successful with proposed takeovers.
They rate O’Neill, 58, a far better bet to bring back the good times to the crisis-torn Reds than current Kop gaffer Roy Hodgson. That will be a massive blow to Hodgson as he battles to restore stability at Liverpool following his summer switch from Fulham.
-
So, he'll get the job he wanted after all.
-
Absolute rubbish
-
Kevin Keegan to manage Aston Villa?
-
He'd take Heskey of us no problem.
There may be a God.
-
I can't see any of the big 4 fancying his turgid football and allergy to foreign/star players, although you neve know if a new regime comes in at Liverpool. Those with ambitions to challenge might be a different story and I could see him ending up at someone like Newcastle, possibly Everton if Moyes ever moves on, or maybe Leeds.
-
4 Seasons. Maximum.
-
They deserve each other.
-
If it is true, the new owners will have to be prepared for their wage bill to go through the roof, mainly for mediocre players who won't get a look in.
-
If it is true, the new owners will have to be prepared for their wage bill to go through the roof, mainly for mediocre players who won't get a look in.
Yes because they were a model of financial prudence under Benitez.
Without checking I think it's safe to assume our wage bill was much lower than theirs and we finished above them last season.
-
If it is true, the new owners will have to be prepared for their wage bill to go through the roof, mainly for mediocre players who won't get a look in.
Yes because they were a model of financial prudence under Benitez.
Even more reason for them not to appoint a twerp who will spend inflated fees on English based players.
Liverpool will be eager to get back into the Champions League, he would be incapable of that.
-
Imagine old Thinny Skin dealing with the flak at Anfield if one or two results don't go their way, or if he persists in playing Gerrard at right-back and the natives get restless?
-
It would be a joy to watch from a distance. Although Lplop looked awful yesterday, Hodgson will sort them out and they'll be OK if he is given the time. His problem is that many of the fans didn't seem to want him and may turn on him sooner rather than later.
My own view of MON now is that he's damaged goods. His limitations were obvious to everybody in football over the past 18 months and his attempts to sabotage our club will surely be a cause for concern for future employers. That said he has many friends in the media and he may just prove to be a popular choice for unpopular owners like the yanks at Lplop.
-
If it is true, the new owners will have to be prepared for their wage bill to go through the roof, mainly for mediocre players who won't get a look in.
Yes because they were a model of financial prudence under Benitez.
Without checking I think it's safe to assume our wage bill was much lower than theirs and we finished above them last season.
Still on his side, then?
-
If it is true, the new owners will have to be prepared for their wage bill to go through the roof, mainly for mediocre players who won't get a look in.
Yes because they were a model of financial prudence under Benitez.
Without checking I think it's safe to assume our wage bill was much lower than theirs and we finished above them last season.
Still on his side, then?
Just stating facts, I thought you might be avove that sort of sub-Everall type posturing, seems I over estimated you.
-
I think the story's nonsense, but selfish walkout aside, I still rate him as a manager.
-
If it is true, the new owners will have to be prepared for their wage bill to go through the roof, mainly for mediocre players who won't get a look in.
Yes because they were a model of financial prudence under Benitez.
Without checking I think it's safe to assume our wage bill was much lower than theirs and we finished above them last season.
Still on his side, then?
Just stating facts, I thought you might be avove that sort of sub-Everall type posturing, seems I over estimated you.
You certainly did. Just like you invariably over-estimate our managers.
-
Marton O'Neill is a fine manager, but what in God's name does he want from a club he manages? If he thinks Liverpool is a better bet than Villa then good luck to him but from what I saw of the Red Scouse yesterday, they have a lot of mediocre players and a sprinkling of ones that should be a class above, but aren't. Were it not for Gerrard and Torres, despite the latter's form, I think Villa would have the better squad.
-
Marton O'Neill is a fine manager, but what in God's name does he want from a club he manages? If he thinks Liverpool is a better bet than Villa then good luck to him but from what I saw of the Red Scouse yesterday, they have a lot of mediocre players and a sprinkling of ones that should be a class above, but aren't. Were it not for Gerrard and Torres, despite the latter's form, I think Villa would have the better squad.
I thought Liverpool were beyond awful yesterday.
Hopefully Torres and Gerrard (and Reina) will get tired of it and demand out.
-
MON seemed to have carte blanche to do whatever he liked at Villa without any supervision whatsoever, he's not going to get anywhere near that sort of freedom elsewhere, I think both he and Villa will regret the parting of the ways in time.
-
It would only be good news for us if MOn went to Liverpool. Sadly he'd be lucky to last a season before he'd be found out.
-
Good luck to him and them, they'll all need it.
That shower of shite are welcome to the twat.
I'd feel really sorry for Woy.
-
He won't manage another English team unless they have shit loads of money compared to the rest (Man Utd/Chelsea/Man City) because he knows he won't do any better than what he did at Villa.
-
For someone who had three 6th place finishes in a row and a Cup Final in his last, he's getting an awful lot of grief. This, as some seem to have not noticed, is the best Villa have consistenly done for many a year.
A sending off for Vidic and Dunne not fucking it up and we could've won the cup. But, based on a referees decision and a player making a mistake, MON is deemed a failure.
I know why people don't like him, but he seems to be being put in the same brackets as DOL, which seems very bizarre considering how well he did for us.
-
He won't manage another English team unless they have shit loads of money compared to the rest (Man Utd/Chelsea/Man City) because he knows he won't do any better than what he did at Villa.
Well he's buggered then. Can you see him getting a job outside the UK? No chance. I still think he'll end up at Newcastle or Sunderland.
-
If it is true, the new owners will have to be prepared for their wage bill to go through the roof, mainly for mediocre players who won't get a look in.
They had one of them he was the FSW - players bought that have never kicked a ball for them !
-
If it is true, the new owners will have to be prepared for their wage bill to go through the roof, mainly for mediocre players who won't get a look in.
They had one of them he was the FSW - players bought that have never kicked a ball for them !
As i've already written, that makes it even less likely that they'd want another wastrel like Doh'Neill.
-
I know why people don't like him, but he seems to be being put in the same brackets as DOL, which seems very bizarre considering how well he did for us.
That's mainly because of the manner and timing of his departure.
-
I would be quite staggered if this happened to be honest.
They are welcome to him if it did come to pass mind.
-
For someone who had three 6th place finishes in a row and a Cup Final in his last, he's getting an awful lot of grief. This, as some seem to have not noticed, is the best Villa have consistenly done for many a year.
A sending off for Vidic and Dunne not fucking it up and we could've won the cup. But, based on a referees decision and a player making a mistake, MON is deemed a failure.
I know why people don't like him, but he seems to be being put in the same brackets as DOL, which seems very bizarre considering how well he did for us.
Shame on you for resorting to facts.
-
Well if this move to Liverpool comes off, as I don't think it will, I'm sure we can all go through the pros and cons of MON's time here again.
Won't that be fun.
-
I know why people don't like him, but he seems to be being put in the same brackets as DOL, which seems very bizarre considering how well he did for us.
That's mainly because of the manner and timing of his departure.
The timing I grant you, but with so many unanswered questions about his departure I don;t see how we can draw any conclusions as to the 'manner' of it!
-
I saw this this morning.
Paraphrasing, "if something happens and then something else happens MON might be appointed manager".
The reporter (Pratt?) putting 2 and 2 together and getting 12,435,643,543
-
For someone who had three 6th place finishes in a row and a Cup Final in his last, he's getting an awful lot of grief.
He has had hardly any grief at all because most people wouldn't dare say a word against him until he had fucked off.
-
I was willing to give him extra time on the premise that we’d move on from 6th. 6th isn’t bad, but it’s no achievement. It’s invariably where we’ve been for 20 odd years. The fact he bottled it and walked out means that I cannot factor in any premise of advancement under him, because he didn’t want the opportunity to try and finish what he started.
He got us to 6th, spent a huge amount to do it and we still haven't won a pot since 1996. The fact some still defend him is unsurprising. He wasn’t good enough, sad really as we all hoped he would be.
-
I was willing to give him extra time on the premise that we’d move on from 6th. 6th isn’t bad, but it’s no achievement. It’s invariably where we’ve been for 20 odd years. The fact he bottled it and walked out means that I cannot factor in any premise of advancement under him, because he didn’t want the opportunity to try and finish what he started.
He got us to 6th, spent a huge amount to do it and we still haven't won a pot since 1996. The fact some still defend him is unsurprising. He wasn’t good enough, sad really as we all hoped he would be.
Invariably?
What pisses me off is the willingness to rewrite history because we're pissed off with him walking out. Yes, on the surface he's dropped us in it but to pretend that we hadn't made real progress and that last season wasn't our best in years is just fucking bollocks.
-
I’m not re-writing history, so clamber back into your pram. We have as many second placed finishes as 16th finishes, tot them all up since we were promoted and you’ll like as not get a figure of 5, 6 or 7. There is also the perception that it seems to me like we’ve been 6th for the past hundred years.
The manager did well, reversed the years of decline we’d suffered under O’Leary, spent a fortune and built a platform to deliver. But he never did and we still have gone over a decade without winning a trophy. That’s how history will judge him. I look forward to a few weeks time when you’re in as much love with Ged as you currently still are with O’Neill.
-
Our average finish in PL history is 8th. yes, i know football wasn't invented in 1992, but it did dramatically change then so is as good a point in time as any to judge from.
-
Yes and only four clubs have a better average. By points or by finishes, we've been here forever and it is no achievement. The 1930’s and the 2000’s were bleak and shamefully barren years for Aston Villa, lets hope the current set up can deliver a tonic to alleviate the pain.
-
I’m not re-writing history, so clamber back into your pram. We have as many second placed finishes as 16th finishes, tot them all up since we were promoted and you’ll like as not get a figure of 5, 6 or 7. There is also the perception that it seems to me like we’ve been 6th for the past hundred years.
The manager did well, reversed the years of decline we’d suffered under O’Leary, spent a fortune and built a platform to deliver. But he never did and we still have gone over a decade without winning a trophy. That’s how history will judge him. I look forward to a few weeks time when you’re in as much love with Ged as you currently still are with O’Neill.
"In love" - that's the sort of childish drivel we've had to put up with from nash and Overall in recent times, I thought you had a bit more to you.
I thought he was doing a good job, do you want me to pretend I didn't just to suit the prevailing mood?
As for Houllier, I'm optimistic that he can continue the good work and am particulary pleased with the staff he has put together which, on paper, has an exciting feel to it.
-
Yes and only four clubs have a better average. By points or by finishes, we've been here forever and it is no achievement. The 1930’s and the 2000’s were bleak and shamefully barren years for Aston Villa, lets hope the current set up can deliver a tonic to alleviate the pain.
No, four clubs have a better TOTAL points than us, not average. From memory, our average points per game in the PL was also 8th.
-
Yes, on the surface he's dropped us in it but to pretend that we hadn't made real progress and that last season wasn't our best in years is just fucking bollocks.
Sorry to intrude on your special dream again, and not wishing to rewrite history, could you please justify the "on the surface " comment please.
Feel free to call me silly names if you must.
-
Absolute bullshit story of course. But saw a few Pool fans reaction to this story and it seems most arent overly thrilled with the possibility of MON now.
Would be fun though. Couldnt wait to hear the scousers booing with MON in charge. It's more common than you think MON! Especially with some of the shit you often serve up!
-
I’m not re-writing history, so clamber back into your pram. We have as many second placed finishes as 16th finishes, tot them all up since we were promoted and you’ll like as not get a figure of 5, 6 or 7. There is also the perception that it seems to me like we’ve been 6th for the past hundred years.
The manager did well, reversed the years of decline we’d suffered under O’Leary, spent a fortune and built a platform to deliver. But he never did and we still have gone over a decade without winning a trophy. That’s how history will judge him. I look forward to a few weeks time when you’re in as much love with Ged as you currently still are with O’Neill.
"In love" - that's the sort of childish drivel we've had to put up with from nash and Overall in recent times, I thought you had a bit more to you.
I thought he was doing a good job, do you want me to pretend I didn't just to suit the prevailing mood?
As for Houllier, I'm optimistic that he can continue the good work and am particulary pleased with the staff he has put together which, on paper, has an exciting feel to it.
You seem to be having a bad day for the shattering of illusions. First evil billionaire tyrant and tycoon Woodhall fails to meet your expectations, and now me. Would it be too much to say that Father Christmas doesn’t exist?
I know you thought he was doing a good job. So did I, but as I pointed out there was a caveat to that with the expectation that we’d go on to achieve something tangible and something out of the ordinary. He didn’t want that opportunity and we all have our opinions as to why not. So when it comes down to it, I’ll not hold him in any real higher regard than Gregory, who equally spent a fortune and left us trophyless. The manner of O’Neill’s exit seals his reputation with many others and me.
I’m glad you share my excitement about the new regime. Cynicism doesn’t suit you and if you think I was being puerile and maybe I was, then it’s from your volte face on the board which seems to me to come from an unnecessary loyalty towards O’Neill. He doesn’t deserve it.
-
Yes, on the surface he's dropped us in it but to pretend that we hadn't made real progress and that last season wasn't our best in years is just fucking bollocks.
Sorry to intrude on your special dream again, and not wishing to rewrite history, could you please justify the "on the surface " comment please.
Feel free to call me silly names if you must.
It's quite simple. We do not know the exact circumstances of his departure. So, on the surface he's dropped us in it but we cannot know for certain until we are given the full story.
-
It's quite simple. We do not know the exact circumstances of his departure. So, on the surface he's dropped us in it but we cannot know for certain until we are given the full story.
I'd be agreeing with you chris if it wasn't for the fact that he has form in dropping clubs in it.
-
an irish shit for scouse shit
-
I’m not re-writing history, so clamber back into your pram. We have as many second placed finishes as 16th finishes, tot them all up since we were promoted and you’ll like as not get a figure of 5, 6 or 7. There is also the perception that it seems to me like we’ve been 6th for the past hundred years.
The manager did well, reversed the years of decline we’d suffered under O’Leary, spent a fortune and built a platform to deliver. But he never did and we still have gone over a decade without winning a trophy. That’s how history will judge him. I look forward to a few weeks time when you’re in as much love with Ged as you currently still are with O’Neill.
"In love" - that's the sort of childish drivel we've had to put up with from nash and Overall in recent times, I thought you had a bit more to you.
I thought he was doing a good job, do you want me to pretend I didn't just to suit the prevailing mood?
As for Houllier, I'm optimistic that he can continue the good work and am particulary pleased with the staff he has put together which, on paper, has an exciting feel to it.
You seem to be having a bad day for the shattering of illusions. First evil billionaire tyrant and tycoon Woodhall fails to meet your expectations, and now me. Would it be too much to say that Father Christmas doesn’t exist?
I know you thought he was doing a good job. So did I, but as I pointed out there was a caveat to that with the expectation that we’d go on to achieve something tangible and something out of the ordinary. He didn’t want that opportunity and we all have our opinions as to why not. So when it comes down to it, I’ll not hold him in any real higher regard than Gregory, who equally spent a fortune and left us trophyless. The manner of O’Neill’s exit seals his reputation with many others and me.
I’m glad you share my excitement about the new regime. Cynicism doesn’t suit you and if you think I was being puerile and maybe I was, then it’s from your volte face on the board which seems to me to come from an unnecessary loyalty towards O’Neill. He doesn’t deserve it.
It isn't unnecessary loyalty it's just being consistent. It's not a personal thing to the man but to the job he was doing.
I think Houliier inherits the best set of players any incoming Villa manager has had in the PL era. If the board back him then he has every chance to succeed.
-
an irish shit for scouse shit
And here was me thinking we were lacking insightful and thought provoking debate on here!
-
Terrific news! They are welcomed to him. He played kids in Moscow ...I am still fuming!
-
Yes, on the surface he's dropped us in it but to pretend that we hadn't made real progress and that last season wasn't our best in years is just fucking bollocks.
Sorry to intrude on your special dream again, and not wishing to rewrite history, could you please justify the "on the surface " comment please.
Feel free to call me silly names if you must.
It's quite simple. We do not know the exact circumstances of his departure. So, on the surface he's dropped us in it but we cannot know for certain until we are given the full story.
He dropped us in it. We know that for a fact - the timing alone is proof.
-
O'Neill is damaged goods and no top four aspirant will surely employ one who has a bad habit of 'walking out' on clubs. His ego drives him not success for the football club that employs him nor indeed its fans!
-
Our average finish in PL history is 8th. yes, i know football wasn't invented in 1992, but it did dramatically change then so is as good a point in time as any to judge from.
We've also finished in the top six in precisely half of the seasons since the Premier League started.
Sixth under MON three times was decent. Not amazing, but decent.
-
Yes, on the surface he's dropped us in it but to pretend that we hadn't made real progress and that last season wasn't our best in years is just fucking bollocks.
Sorry to intrude on your special dream again, and not wishing to rewrite history, could you please justify the "on the surface " comment please.
Feel free to call me silly names if you must.
It's quite simple. We do not know the exact circumstances of his departure. So, on the surface he's dropped us in it but we cannot know for certain until we are given the full story.
He dropped us in it. We know that for a fact - the timing alone is proof.
Precisely.
No "on the surface of it", there surely can not be doubt in anyone's mind that MON dropped us in it going when he did, regardless of whether they support his reasoning.
Can there?
-
MON dropped us in it, and for that... He is a ******.
-
Would love him to get the Redscouse job, but would much prefer it if he got the England one.
-
I wonder how many of you would make these posts, call him name, libel him if you had to leave your real names,contact details. If you feel so mad about him drop him a line care of Villa Park im sure they have a forwarding address for him
-
Good idea. Will do.
-
Would love him to get the Redscouse job, but would much prefer it if he got the England one.
Such would be his success, for the rest of his life he'd never have to buy himself another pint.. in Ireland. You've bloody evil, KG.
-
I wonder how many of you would make these posts, call him name, libel him if you had to leave your real names,contact details. If you feel so mad about him drop him a line care of Villa Park im sure they have a forwarding address for him
I can't say I'm overly concerned about such empty threats.
-
Yes, on the surface he's dropped us in it but to pretend that we hadn't made real progress and that last season wasn't our best in years is just fucking bollocks.
Sorry to intrude on your special dream again, and not wishing to rewrite history, could you please justify the "on the surface " comment please.
Feel free to call me silly names if you must.
It's quite simple. We do not know the exact circumstances of his departure. So, on the surface he's dropped us in it but we cannot know for certain until we are given the full story.
He dropped us in it. We know that for a fact - the timing alone is proof.
Precisely.
No "on the surface of it", there surely can not be doubt in anyone's mind that MON dropped us in it going when he did, regardless of whether they support his reasoning.
Can there?
If you found out his reasoning and supported it, you'd probably hold someone else responsible for dropping us in it.
-
Yes, on the surface he's dropped us in it but to pretend that we hadn't made real progress and that last season wasn't our best in years is just fucking bollocks.
Sorry to intrude on your special dream again, and not wishing to rewrite history, could you please justify the "on the surface " comment please.
Feel free to call me silly names if you must.
It's quite simple. We do not know the exact circumstances of his departure. So, on the surface he's dropped us in it but we cannot know for certain until we are given the full story.
He dropped us in it. We know that for a fact - the timing alone is proof.
As as I said 'on the surface'.
Yes, on the surface he's dropped us in it but to pretend that we hadn't made real progress and that last season wasn't our best in years is just fucking bollocks.
Sorry to intrude on your special dream again, and not wishing to rewrite history, could you please justify the "on the surface " comment please.
Feel free to call me silly names if you must.
It's quite simple. We do not know the exact circumstances of his departure. So, on the surface he's dropped us in it but we cannot know for certain until we are given the full story.
He dropped us in it. We know that for a fact - the timing alone is proof.
Precisely.
No "on the surface of it", there surely can not be doubt in anyone's mind that MON dropped us in it going when he did, regardless of whether they support his reasoning.
Can there?
So if he had been sacked on that date would you be accusing Randy of dropping us in it or would you be looking for reasons?
I added the caveat as I don't know what happened on the day. I haven't tried to claim that he didn't drop us in it just that I'm not going to pretend that I know what went on. Like most I have my theories but as both sides have remained tight-lipped about it that's all they are, theories. So I guess at a falling out over O'Neill wanting to spend and when he walked the club not being that fussed so they did nothing to try to make him change his mind.
-
Yes, on the surface he's dropped us in it but to pretend that we hadn't made real progress and that last season wasn't our best in years is just fucking bollocks.
Sorry to intrude on your special dream again, and not wishing to rewrite history, could you please justify the "on the surface " comment please.
Feel free to call me silly names if you must.
It's quite simple. We do not know the exact circumstances of his departure. So, on the surface he's dropped us in it but we cannot know for certain until we are given the full story.
Problem I have with that is he left Villa of his own accord and at a very late stage of the preseason.
He was not sacked, he has past form of doing similar as I previously pointed out, so I ask again what do you mean by the "on the surface" comment. What are you implying, speculating or wishing for.
-
I wonder how many of you would make these posts, call him name, libel him if you had to leave your real names,contact details. If you feel so mad about him drop him a line care of Villa Park im sure they have a forwarding address for him
Already have, and yet to receive a reply.
-
Yes, on the surface he's dropped us in it but to pretend that we hadn't made real progress and that last season wasn't our best in years is just fucking bollocks.
Sorry to intrude on your special dream again, and not wishing to rewrite history, could you please justify the "on the surface " comment please.
Feel free to call me silly names if you must.
It's quite simple. We do not know the exact circumstances of his departure. So, on the surface he's dropped us in it but we cannot know for certain until we are given the full story.
He dropped us in it. We know that for a fact - the timing alone is proof.
Precisely.
No "on the surface of it", there surely can not be doubt in anyone's mind that MON dropped us in it going when he did, regardless of whether they support his reasoning.
Can there?
If you found out his reasoning and supported it, you'd probably hold someone else responsible for dropping us in it.
Nobody else did drop us in it.
-
I wonder how many of you would make these posts, call him name, libel him if you had to leave your real names,contact details. If you feel so mad about him drop him a line care of Villa Park im sure they have a forwarding address for him
Already have, and yet to receive a reply.
Well done
The "on the surface" comment means that given the information we know/have been given i.e MON left the club 5 days before the West Ham game because of a disagreement over "unknown" things
-
I wonder how many of you would make these posts, call him name, libel him if you had to leave your real names,contact details. If you feel so mad about him drop him a line care of Villa Park im sure they have a forwarding address for him
What's that got to do with anything?
-
Would love him to get the Redscouse job, but would much prefer it if he got the England one.
Such would be his success, for the rest of his life he'd never have to buy himself another pint.. in Ireland. You've bloody evil, KG.
There is that, of course.
Primarily though, it would help to debunk a few myths.
I genuinely get the impression that Barclay, Lawrenson, Holt and all that lot didn't watch us all too often, maybe caught the edited highlights here and there and made a note of our results.
I find it hard to believe that anyone who watched us more than twice in a row could be impressed with that standard of football. But as they didn't watch, and were only too keen to piss in MON's pocket there was a level of praise bordering on awe at times, completely out of kilter with the reality.
Similar (but not the same) to DOL's insistence that his sides played 'high tempo attacking football.' This became accepted fact. "Villa? Oh they play high tempo attacking football."
Have you actually watched us play? "Not really, but O'Leary keeps saying it, so it must be true."
If O'Neill got the national job there would be no place to hide. All the pundits have to sit and watch In Ger Lund, whether they like it or not. I'd wager there would be quite a few modifying their opinions on the bloke.
-
I wonder how many of you would make these posts, call him name, libel him if you had to leave your real names,contact details. If you feel so mad about him drop him a line care of Villa Park im sure they have a forwarding address for him
What's that got to do with anything?
Do you not think some of the things that he is being called/accused of may be a touch ureasonable considering everyone is putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 56 and that if these defamatory posts had people's real names on then MON's lawyers may be interested
-
Would love him to get the Redscouse job, but would much prefer it if he got the England one.
Such would be his success, for the rest of his life he'd never have to buy himself another pint.. in Ireland. You've bloody evil, KG.
There is that, of course.
Primarily though, it would help to debunk a few myths.
I genuinely get the impression that Barclay, Lawrenson, Holt and all that lot didn't watch us all too often, maybe caught the edited highlights here and there and made a note of our results.
I find it hard to believe that anyone who watched us more than twice in a row could be impressed with that standard of football. But as they didn't watch, and were only too keen to piss in MON's pocket there was a level of praise bordering on awe at times, completely out of kilter with the reality.
Similar (but not the same) to DOL's insistence that his sides played 'high tempo attacking football.' This became accepted fact. "Villa? Oh they play high tempo attacking football."
Have you actually watched us play? "Not really, but O'Leary keeps saying it, so it must be true."
If there was one thing that really pissed me of about MON was his post match comments of how we played some "terrific, scintillating football", when in truth it was generally utter gash. Maybe he believed it or maybe he knew that for the vast majority of people, they'd only get to see 5 minutes on MOTD, so it was a no risk comment or maybe he knew no better.
-
I wonder how many of you would make these posts, call him name, libel him if you had to leave your real names,contact details. If you feel so mad about him drop him a line care of Villa Park im sure they have a forwarding address for him
What's that got to do with anything?
Do you not think some of the things that he is being called/accused of may be a touch ureasonable considering everyone is putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 56 and that if these defamatory posts had people's real names on then MON's lawyers may be interested
Ohh scary.
I use my real name on here (I assume Spangley is your real name too) If he's such a tender soul, he'd have no trouble getting my infomation to sue me for libel.
I bet he pays over the odds for his lawyer too.
-
I bet he pays over the odds for his lawyer too.
Well he uses him often enough, the over sensitive shite.
And this is my real name 'n all
-
I wonder how many of you would make these posts, call him name, libel him if you had to leave your real names,contact details. If you feel so mad about him drop him a line care of Villa Park im sure they have a forwarding address for him
What's that got to do with anything?
Do you not think some of the things that he is being called/accused of may be a touch ureasonable considering everyone is putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 56 and that if these defamatory posts had people's real names on then MON's lawyers may be interested
Ohh scary.
I use my real name on here (I assume Spangley is your real name too) If he's such a tender soul, he'd have no trouble getting my infomation to sue me for libel.
I bet he pays over the odds for his lawyer too.
Well done Mark
-
They are going backwards now. They will even go more backwards with him..
-
Thank you, I'm here all week AND FOREVER MORE.
-
Do you not think some of the things that he is being called/accused of may be a touch ureasonable considering everyone is putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 56 and that if these defamatory posts had people's real names on then MON's lawyers may be interested
First, if anything libellous was said on here 'real names' or otherwise would make no difference.
Second, nothing libelllous has been said.
Third, for the benefit of any of his legal advisors who may be reading, Martin O'Neill dropped us in it.
-
I can't belive that after a month we still have no idea why he fucked off.
-
If there was one thing that really pissed me of about MON was his post match comments of how we played some "terrific, scintillating football", when in truth it was generally utter gash. Maybe he believed it or maybe he knew that for the vast majority of people, they'd only get to see 5 minutes on MOTD, so it was a no risk comment or maybe he knew no better.
It's not just him though. Gabby and KMac have both reckoned we have played well in recent matches.
-
I can't belive that after a month we still have no idea why he fucked off.
I couldn't give a fuck now.
-
We've also finished in the top six in precisely half of the seasons since the Premier League started.
Sixth under MON three times was decent. Not amazing, but decent.
6th in nine seasons over eighteen (50%) sounds better then 6th in six seasons out of fifteen (40%). Although for the money spent we should be in those type of places, sometimes it is forgotten in the stats thrown around that without the last three seasons, they were worse on average.
I do agree on the decent comment and not amazing but that was more with the money spent then it should be expected because of pre-MON stats.
-
I can't belive that after a month we still have no idea why he fucked off.
I couldn't give a fuck now.
I would only really give a fuck if it had a future knock on under Geds reign. (Possible massive reduction in funding, major players being sold with no money left to fund the managers purchases.)
-
Yes, on the surface he's dropped us in it but to pretend that we hadn't made real progress and that last season wasn't our best in years is just fucking bollocks.
Sorry to intrude on your special dream again, and not wishing to rewrite history, could you please justify the "on the surface " comment please.
Feel free to call me silly names if you must.
It's quite simple. We do not know the exact circumstances of his departure. So, on the surface he's dropped us in it but we cannot know for certain until we are given the full story.
He dropped us in it. We know that for a fact - the timing alone is proof.
Precisely.
No "on the surface of it", there surely can not be doubt in anyone's mind that MON dropped us in it going when he did, regardless of whether they support his reasoning.
Can there?
If you found out his reasoning and supported it, you'd probably hold someone else responsible for dropping us in it.
Nobody else did drop us in it.
Perhaps if I had the information you appear to have I would feel the same way you do but I don't, so I don't.
-
The information I have is available to all. Martin O'Neill and his staff walked out. Nobody else. Therefore Martin O'Neill and his staff dropped us in it. Nobody else.
-
But we don't know if he was put in a position where he thought he had no option.
-
I can't belive that after a month we still have no idea why he fucked off.
I couldn't give a fuck now.
No, neither do i.
-
But we don't know if he was put in a position where he thought he had no option.
Of course he had an option. What was the worst thing that could happen to him?
-
a mirror
-
But we don't know if he was put in a position where he thought he had no option.
Of course he had an option. What was the worst thing that could happen to him?
Well, the scenario that knits everything together into one explainable situation is that O'Neill discovered that Paul Faulkner is one of the Babylonian Brotherhood. O'Neill discovers that Faulkner has been putting lizard shapeshifters onto the payroll (hence explaining why ours is bigger than Spurs), and confronts him when Faulkner tries to disguise this by laying the blame at O'Neill's feet though the thin excuse of employing duff footballers at vastly inflated wages.
As yet only O'Neill, Chris and Villadawg out of all us sheeple have cottoned on to this, and members of the Brotherhood are conducting a smear campaign again the three of them, making them out to be stone cold bonkers.
So far, it's working.
-
But we don't know if he was put in a position where he thought he had no option.
Of course he had an option. What was the worst thing that could happen to him?
Surelyt he asked himself the same question. Why would he walk when he did? What was the catalyst for him to do what he did knowing the repercussions for the club and potentially for him? He thought his relationship with Randy and the board had fractured so much that the working relationship could go no further. That seems fair enough. The timing is strange though so what made the relationship break down to the point one party has to walk?
-
I'm inclined to believe the Daily Star article is a journalist's attempt at filling space. As has been discussed in other threads, or maybe it was the latest issues of H&V, I'm a firm believer that this was the biggest gig MON ever had.
-
My belief - he knew he'd blown his chance of ever getting us top four and the only way was down. This way, he could say he'd have done better if only...... Randy told him the gravy train had hit a red light and he walked out at a time designed to cause maximum inconvenience.
-
My belief - he knew he'd blown his chance of ever getting us top four and the only way was down. This way, he could say he'd have done better if only...... Randy told him the gravy train had hit a red light and he walked out at a time designed to cause maximum inconvenience.
Maybe, but as much as I go along with most of that I don't see why it would be exactly when he did walk. WEhy not 1 day if it was pre-designed to cause maximum effect? There must have been a catalyst for everything to breakdown when it did.
Managers put their ego above most things in football andif MON thought he wasn't going to be able to achieve what he wanted to, then he wouldnt that 'failure' on his cv.
But still, this is his job, surely he can't be that conniving as to want to go merely to score points? To disrupt? Most clubs he's left all still speak highly of him, so do the fans, so why risk his reputation?
-
My belief - he knew he'd blown his chance of ever getting us top four and the only way was down. This way, he could say he'd have done better if only...... Randy told him the gravy train had hit a red light and he walked out at a time designed to cause maximum inconvenience.
The only thing I disagree with there is the very last part. I don't think there's any evidence of vindictive intent on his part; I think it's more that he knew what effect the timing of his departure would have but didn't care enough to stay. Regardless, the net result was the same and he doesn't emerge from the sorry business with any credit at all.
-
Mon did what he's always done. When he found out he wasn't doing a good enough job and the money he'd wasted was about to come and kick him hard up the rear end he quit.
Difference with Villa was that he didn't find a convenient enough excuse.
-
Difference with Villa was that he didn't find a convenient enough excuse.
Yes Malcolm, because that is all his wife's lymphoma was. A convenient excuse.
-
Different spin on things. Let's say he didn't quit when he did. Instead, we have the same players, thus same transfer window. There's tension with the board but things look good after a cracking win vs West Ham. Then things start to slide. Eliminated from Europe, battered at Newcastle, discontent in the camp quelled only by a jammy win vs Everton (yes, I know Luke Young played in that game). Things come to a head at the weekend where Bolton nearly beat us. Randy calls MON into his office and says enough is enough and fires him. Randy quickly moves to appoint Houllier who starts today. Would we be any better or worse off, and would the dislike/appeal of MON be any different? Same end situation, same points on the board, same old Europe exit..
-
Thing is under MON we wouldn't have been battered at Newcastle and would have scraped a win against Bolton due to the fact there was no way he would have picked such an adventurous team in either game, if we want the games to be more entertaining we need to accept that there may be one or two poor results on the way.
-
Thing is under MON we wouldn't have been battered at Newcastle and would have scraped a win against Bolton due to the fact there was no way he would have picked such an adventurous team in either game, if we want the games to be more entertaining we need to accept that there may be one or two poor results on the way.
]
while I agree with you, I'm saying the end result is the same. It's Sept 20th, and he just got fired. Does it change anything from a perception standpoint?
-
Mon did what he's always done. When he found out he wasn't doing a good enough job and the money he'd wasted was about to come and kick him hard up the rear end he quit.
Difference with Villa was that he didn't find a convenient enough excuse.
Maybe that's why he never phoned Randy to tell him he was resigning.
-
Difference with Villa was that he didn't find a convenient enough excuse.
Is this a reference to his wife falling ill.
-
Difference with Villa was that he didn't find a convenient enough excuse.
Is this a reference to his wife falling ill.
Things have really hit rock bottom when we start criticising Martin for looking after his sick wife. Fact is that MON had no history of walking away (apart from the Norwich fiasco) which makes all this very strange. There seems to be a real need by some to demonise MON and criticise anyone has retains any sympathy or respect towards him. The oh so very witty names of Doh'Neil, bottler, etc are being used against someone who the majority of fans had strong affinity with. Dave's theory about him wanting to inflict maximum damage maybe right but it doesn't sit well with me. Something happened that caused this breakdown - it was obviously a culmination of events but there was some catalyst. My belief is that the futher away we get from MON's period as Villa manager the more he will be positively remembered.
-
You can only judge people on how you find them. MON came across as intelligent, measured and above all, principled. Belligerent, stubborn and pigheaded as well, but the one description I would never have attributed to him was vindictive. Maybe that would fit O'Leary, but not O'Neil.
This alone feeds my desire to find out just why he walked and why at such an important time for our club. It also stops me from condemning the man outright and doing an about turn on his ability as a manager or totally ignoring the four years of progress, as has been so prelevent on here. A revision of history on a par with the conversion of Doug from the subject of protest marches to cuddly old man on the Holte.
The chance for MON to prove himself as a top manager with a big club has gone now, thrown away by the man himself. More important for us is the timing of his departure for which he'd better have a bloody good reason.
-
Mon did what he's always done. When he found out he wasn't doing a good enough job and the money he'd wasted was about to come and kick him hard up the rear end he quit.
Difference with Villa was that he didn't find a convenient enough excuse.
That's just pure bullshit.
Like any ambitious manager he left a small club, Leicester, after giving them their best success in decades to join a bigger club. He left Celtic due to his wife being seriously ill. There are no similarities with what happened at Villa.
Do you actually believe any of the the crap you post?
-
I thought it was something like this...
Money was being wasted on wages on players that wern't getting a look in.
Randy wanted to address this issue and MON didn't.
He threw a strop and walked.
Prick.
-
I thought it was something like this...
Money was being wasted on wages on players that wern't getting a look in.
Randy wanted to address this issue and MON didn't.
He threw a strop and walked.
Prick.
Not according to The General and Pelty.
They both said he had agreed to try to reduce the wage bill but then something changed.
My guess is as that he decided we needed players even though they'd failed to sell and was told no so he chucked in the towell. However, for some reason they don't want us to know what happened so all any of us can do is speculate.
-
Mon did what he's always done. When he found out he wasn't doing a good enough job and the money he'd wasted was about to come and kick him hard up the rear end he quit.
Difference with Villa was that he didn't find a convenient enough excuse.
That's just pure bullshit...
Do you actually believe any of the the crap you post?
Of course he doesn't. It what makes him the Über-troll.
-
I thought it was something like this...
Money was being wasted on wages on players that wern't getting a look in.
Randy wanted to address this issue and MON didn't.
He threw a strop and walked.
Prick.
Not according to The General and Pelty.
They both said he had agreed to try to reduce the wage bill but then something changed.
My guess is as that he decided we needed players even though they'd failed to sell and was told no so he chucked in the towell. However, for some reason they don't want us to know what happened so all any of us can do is speculate.
Right.
This subject is getting boring.
Onwards and upwards :)
-
I'm not going to slag him off but I'd like to know the full story. Because it just looks to me like he had a lot of resources behind him, was asked to help clear some of the decks before anybody else came in (which is fair enough, they were his crew that were not scrubbing up after all) and he'd decided he'd had enough and left us at the worst possible time, he also took most of the first team coaching staff with him. I can't forgive him for that.
We had a really encouraging few years and then cracks were starting to appear and the football was becoming turgid. In pre season he just looked depressed and vacant. He should have decided to leave there and then but he didn't. So I dont blame people for thinking the timing of his departure was vindictive. It was at least disrespectful, unprofessional and arrogant.
He's a good if limited manager and I don't hate him but I've lost most of the respect I ever had for him and think Randy at least deserved better than this. We deserved better than this.
I just hope Houllier does well and we can draw a line under this sorry episode as soon as possible.
-
I'm not going to slag him off but I'd like to know the full story. Because it just looks to me like he had a lot of resources behind him, was asked to help clear some of the decks before anybody else came in (which is fair enough, they were his crew that were not scrubbing up after all) and he'd decided he'd had enough and left us at the worst possible time, he also took most of the first team coaching staff with him. I can't forgive him for that.
We had a really encouraging few years and then cracks were starting to appear and the football was becoming turgid. In pre season he just looked depressed and vacant. He should have decided to leave there and then but he didn't. So I dont blame people for thinking the timing of his departure was vindictive. It was at least disrespectful, unprofessional and arrogant.
He's a good if limited manager and I don't hate him but I've lost most of the respect I ever had for him and think Randy at least deserved better than this. We deserved better than this.
I just hope Houllier does well and we can draw a line under this sorry episode as soon as possible.
Thats how I feel as well Maz. Time to move on I think.
-
I'm not going to slag him off but I'd like to know the full story. Because it just looks to me like he had a lot of resources behind him, was asked to help clear some of the decks before anybody else came in (which is fair enough, they were his crew that were not scrubbing up after all) and he'd decided he'd had enough and left us at the worst possible time, he also took most of the first team coaching staff with him. I can't forgive him for that.
We had a really encouraging few years and then cracks were starting to appear and the football was becoming turgid. In pre season he just looked depressed and vacant. He should have decided to leave there and then but he didn't. So I dont blame people for thinking the timing of his departure was vindictive. It was at least disrespectful, unprofessional and arrogant.
He's a good if limited manager and I don't hate him but I've lost most of the respect I ever had for him and think Randy at least deserved better than this. We deserved better than this.
I just hope Houllier does well and we can draw a line under this sorry episode as soon as possible.
A perfect summing up of the whole sorry saga.
-
I'm not going to slag him off but I'd like to know the full story. Because it just looks to me like he had a lot of resources behind him, was asked to help clear some of the decks before anybody else came in (which is fair enough, they were his crew that were not scrubbing up after all) and he'd decided he'd had enough and left us at the worst possible time, he also took most of the first team coaching staff with him. I can't forgive him for that.
We had a really encouraging few years and then cracks were starting to appear and the football was becoming turgid. In pre season he just looked depressed and vacant. He should have decided to leave there and then but he didn't. So I dont blame people for thinking the timing of his departure was vindictive. It was at least disrespectful, unprofessional and arrogant.
He's a good if limited manager and I don't hate him but I've lost most of the respect I ever had for him and think Randy at least deserved better than this. We deserved better than this.
I just hope Houllier does well and we can draw a line under this sorry episode as soon as possible.
Absolutely spot on.
-
I'm not going to slag him off but I'd like to know the full story. Because it just looks to me like he had a lot of resources behind him, was asked to help clear some of the decks before anybody else came in (which is fair enough, they were his crew that were not scrubbing up after all) and he'd decided he'd had enough and left us at the worst possible time, he also took most of the first team coaching staff with him. I can't forgive him for that.
We had a really encouraging few years and then cracks were starting to appear and the football was becoming turgid. In pre season he just looked depressed and vacant. He should have decided to leave there and then but he didn't. So I dont blame people for thinking the timing of his departure was vindictive. It was at least disrespectful, unprofessional and arrogant.
He's a good if limited manager and I don't hate him but I've lost most of the respect I ever had for him and think Randy at least deserved better than this. We deserved better than this.
I just hope Houllier does well and we can draw a line under this sorry episode as soon as possible.
I largely agree with this.
However, the matter of him being arrogant and us having a loss of respect for him comes down to WHY he left 5 days before the season started. Something changed from his meeting with Randy at the end of last season, where they both said he was staying. Did the club move the goal posts or did Martin? We don't know, and probably never will with any certainty, so I'll judge him on the football side of things and not draw conclusions as to his character from speculation.
-
I'm not going to slag him off but I'd like to know the full story. Because it just looks to me like he had a lot of resources behind him, was asked to help clear some of the decks before anybody else came in (which is fair enough, they were his crew that were not scrubbing up after all) and he'd decided he'd had enough and left us at the worst possible time, he also took most of the first team coaching staff with him. I can't forgive him for that.
We had a really encouraging few years and then cracks were starting to appear and the football was becoming turgid. In pre season he just looked depressed and vacant. He should have decided to leave there and then but he didn't. So I dont blame people for thinking the timing of his departure was vindictive. It was at least disrespectful, unprofessional and arrogant.
He's a good if limited manager and I don't hate him but I've lost most of the respect I ever had for him and think Randy at least deserved better than this. We deserved better than this.
I just hope Houllier does well and we can draw a line under this sorry episode as soon as possible.
I largely agree with this.
However, the matter of him being arrogant and us having a loss of respect for him comes down to WHY he left 5 days before. Something changed from hsi meeting with Randy at the end of last season, where they both said he was staying. Did the club move the goal posts or did Martin? We don't know, and probably never will with any certainty, so I'll judge him on the football side of things and not draw conclusions as to his character from speculation.
Isn't a large part of judging him on the football side of things his legacy in that area?
In which case you can hardly ignore leaving when he did and taking almost the entire football staff with him, surely?
Leaving when he did - in football terms - has almost certainly caused this season to be at best one of vastly reduced expectations (because of the uncertainty) and at worst a total write off.
-
I thought it was something like this...
Money was being wasted on wages on players that wern't getting a look in.
Randy wanted to address this issue and MON didn't.
He threw a strop and walked.
Prick.
Not according to The General and Pelty.
They both said he had agreed to try to reduce the wage bill but then something changed.
My guess is as that he decided we needed players even though they'd failed to sell and was told no so he chucked in the towell. However, for some reason they don't want us to know what happened so all any of us can do is speculate.
I'd agree with that, but I suspect the thing that changed was that O'Neill realised he couldn't shift the surplus players he'd agreed to shift. The ones he'd put on big money and then fallen out with. It was him that made them difficult to sell, and he'd painted himself into a corner. Far easier to flounce out and blame Randy than admit his balls ups. And I speak as one of the few who saw through the O'Neill facade and thought of him as arrogant and vindicative while he was still here.
-
Isn't a large part of judging him on the football side of things his legacy in that area?
In which case you can hardly ignore leaving when he did and taking almost the entire football staff with him, surely?
Leaving when he did - in football terms - has almost certainly caused this season to be at best one of vastly reduced expectations (because of the uncertainty) and at worst a total write off.
Not the way I see it. His legacy is more then just this season. And if the board had acted quicker and more proactively we may have had a new man in place sooner than 6 weeks after he left, which may have meant a few more points on the board and possibly still being in Europe. He's not responsible for what happened after he left - however he is responsible for what happened while he was here and the playing squad left behind.
-
Isn't a large part of judging him on the football side of things his legacy in that area?
In which case you can hardly ignore leaving when he did and taking almost the entire football staff with him, surely?
Leaving when he did - in football terms - has almost certainly caused this season to be at best one of vastly reduced expectations (because of the uncertainty) and at worst a total write off.
Not the way I see it. His legacy is more then just this season. And if the board had acted quicker and more proactively we may have had a new man in place sooner than 6 weeks after he left, which may have meant a few more points on the board and possibly still being in Europe. He's not responsible for what happened after he left - however he is responsible for what happened while he was here and the playing squad left behind.
He's not responsible for anything since he left?
So none of the carnage from bailing when he did is his responsibility?
-
He's not responsible for anything since he left?
So none of the carnage from bailing when he did is his responsibility?
I probably didn't phrase that right!
My original point was that until we know the full and accurate story as to why he left when he did, my opinion remains based on his time as our manager, which as you know I think he did well in. In doing so I'm leaving open the possibility that something happened behind the scenes that forced his hand into resigning. And if that's the case then what we've seen since should also be blamed on whoever or whatever created the situation that meant he quit.
So, I'm passing comment on his time when he was here and not what's followed. Another reason to do that is I felt the board could have acted quicker in getting their new man in place.
-
Difference with Villa was that he didn't find a convenient enough excuse.
Yes Malcolm, because that is all his wife's lymphoma was. A convenient excuse.
It wasn't nice and I admire him for looking after her, no question, our own assistant manager faced similar problems, it can be a disastrous time. He, mind stepped down on a temporary basis, then resigned to look after his family.
It was still a convenient excuse as at the time the Celtic Board were making similar noises to those the Villa board were just before he quit.
Sad times indeed. Having suffered similar with my baby son its not something you get over in 5 minutes in fact you never really get over such trauma.
-
He's not responsible for anything since he left?
So none of the carnage from bailing when he did is his responsibility?
I probably didn't phrase that right!
My original point was that until we know the full and accurate story as to why he left when he did, my opinion remains based on his time as our manager, which as you know I think he did well in. In doing so I'm leaving open the possibility that something happened behind the scenes that forced his hand into resigning. And if that's the case then what we've seen since should also be blamed on whoever or whatever created the situation that meant he quit.
So, I'm passing comment on his time when he was here and not what's followed. Another reason to do that is I felt the board could have acted quicker in getting their new man in place.
Surely with the same argument we don't know the full details of how the managerial search, went. We have no idea how many choices they wanted didn't even get past the enquiry stage, let alone the interview stage. If it were several, and General K says Randy spent plenty of time flying around seeing people, it will have taken time.
Even at the interview stage its possible Houllier's contract with the FFA, delayed negotiations further while he started to talk about leaving. Further delays no doubt
-
Surely with the same argument we don't know the full details of how the managerial search, went. We have no idea how many choices they wanted didn't even get past the enquiry stage, let alone the interview stage. If it were several, and General K says Randy spent plenty of time flying around seeing people, it will have taken time.
Even at the interview stage its possible Houllier's contract with the FFA, delayed negotiations further while he started to talk about leaving. Further delays no doubt
Yes, it could. It's one of the faults with Villa's closed door policy in that without knowing what's going on, you find it hard to judge them one way or the other.
However, what I wanted to see was them sit doen and decide who they wanted, not who applied, and then aggressively pursue that man and pay whatever compensation was necessary to get him. OK, it may not have made us popular, but we're here to win football matches and trophies, not friends!
-
However, what I wanted to see was them sit doen and decide who they wanted, not who applied, and then aggressively pursue that man and pay whatever compensation was necessary to get him. OK, it may not have made us popular, but we're here to win football matches and trophies, not friends!
And what if he said no?
-
However, what I wanted to see was them sit doen and decide who they wanted, not who applied, and then aggressively pursue that man and pay whatever compensation was necessary to get him. OK, it may not have made us popular, but we're here to win football matches and trophies, not friends!
But using your previous argument you don't know that they didn't do just that and said first choice said no eventually. Randy we know doesn't do things in the public eye, and when you think back to the speculation in rags like the Mirror and NOW, good luck to him.
-
However, what I wanted to see was them sit doen and decide who they wanted, not who applied, and then aggressively pursue that man and pay whatever compensation was necessary to get him. OK, it may not have made us popular, but we're here to win football matches and trophies, not friends!
And what if he said no?
I'm actually more inclined to believe that that's actually what did happen.
I don't think that GH was the first choice or the only person to have the job offered to them.
Look at the press speculation (never a mention of GH), look at the timing. To have waited so long and then offered it to Houllier doesn't sound right to me. Other avenues must have been explored and then blocked.
I have no evidence to back this up mind, just a feeling I've got.
As for MON going to the Dippers, well what do they say about never knowing what you've got till it's gone. They'll be losing a far more astute and respected Manager in Hodgeson
-
If that man says 'no', then you move on to 2nd choice. I just don't like the idea of only looking at managers that apply, if that's what happened, as it precludes those already in jobs, such as Moyes or Jol, and the very top managers do not send in CVs - they wait to be approached.
-
Daily Star..
-
sfx412: ...It wasn't nice and I admire him for looking after her, no question, our own assistant manager faced similar problems, it can be a disastrous time. He, mind stepped down on a temporary basis, then resigned to look after his family. It was still a convenient excuse as at the time the Celtic Board were making similar noises to those the Villa board were just before he quit.Sad times indeed. Having suffered similar with my baby son its not something you get over in 5 minutes in fact you never really get over such trauma.
"How convenient that you have a traumatic experience with a baby son to draw on for reference."
No!. Of course it isn't a convenient excuse when a wife or child has a life-threatening illness.
I can't even begin to fathom such an offensive lack of perspective.
-
Just wonder how long it will take all the experts on here to suggest the Hou is tactically naive, like apparently MON was.
MON will get a good job, because he is a good manager.I think a lot of the criticisms thrown at him about being set in his ways, and having favourites, and making some bad buys, are valid complaints, and now hes gone its time to hope that the new manager makes the necessary decisions.
The fact is, regardless of all the criticisms, MON got us to be a respected top 6 team, able to beat anybody on their day, and you could argue , with the players he wanted to bring in, would have made us a top 4 team.Not every manager can build a team like MON, not every manager is good enough to get a team into the top 4, we will never know if MON was at VP.
If MON went to Lplop , and i hope he does'nt, they will be a better team under MON, than under Hodgson.Take out the petty jealousies/bickerings etc, MON is a good manager.He's gone, get over it, and move on.
-
He's gone, get over it, and move on.
What's your username again? ;)
-
Barry Bannan ,Monty......Barry Bannan :)
-
not every manager is good enough to get a team into the top 4, we will never know if MON was at VP.
We already know, he failed to do it and had 4 seasons to try. 'Arry did it in two.
-
I believe if MON had the starting squad that HR inherited, and the money to spend that HR had, then he could have got that team into the top 4.
If MON had been able to buy Keane, Onohua, McGeady + 1 other, like he apparently wanted to do with the Milner money, then i don't think we would have been far off the top 4 this season.
-
We might have done if we had spent twice as much (gross and net) on our squad in the last four years, which is what Spurs did.
-
MON will not be next liverpool manager. I reckon he will be managing Milner and Barry in the not too distant future
-
If MON had been able to buy Keane, Onohua, McGeady + 1 other, like he apparently wanted to do with the Milner money, then i don't think we would have been far off the top 4 this season.
Do you honestly think those 3 players you mentioned would get us into the top 4?
I don't.
We faded too many times, I saw nothing from MON or his team selections that would have changed that.
McGeady??? Another Winger ???
The 3 we've got are better than him.
-
We might have done if we had spent twice as much (gross and net) on our squad in the last four years, which is what Spurs did.
'Might's' and 'what if's' don't cut it.
He failed to do it and there was no compelling evidence that he ever would.
-
We might have done if we had spent twice as much (gross and net) on our squad in the last four years, which is what Spurs did.
Are there border guards when you enter the realms of fantasy, or is it like driving into Scotland and there's just a big sign saying "WELCOME TO LA-LA LAND"?
-
Just wonder how long it will take all the experts on here to suggest the Hou is tactically naive, like apparently MON was.
I dunno, probably as soon as he sends teams out with very little movement off the ball, or awareness of teammates and becomes over reliant on the big punt up front. Or tries to shoe-horn his favourites into formations even if it unbalances the side.
Nobody can say for certain the above definitely won't happen, but his experience and previous success rate hopefully make it a lot less likely.
I believe if MON had the starting squad that HR inherited, and the money to spend that HR had, then he could have got that team into the top 4.
If MON had been able to buy Keane, Onohua, McGeady + 1 other, like he apparently wanted to do with the Milner money, then i don't think we would have been far off the top 4 this season.
Sounds like someone is still pining for him.
Perhaps you should take your own advice:
He's gone, get over it, and move on.
-
not every manager is good enough to get a team into the top 4, we will never know if MON was at VP.
We already know, he failed to do it and had 4 seasons to try. 'Arry did it in two.
He wouldn't have done it in two with squad MON inherited so it's not a like for like comparison.
-
MON will not be next liverpool manager. I reckon he will be managing Milner and Barry in the not too distant future
I'm presuming this is a joke
-
not every manager is good enough to get a team into the top 4, we will never know if MON was at VP.
We already know, he failed to do it and had 4 seasons to try. 'Arry did it in two.
He wouldn't have done it in two with squad MON inherited so it's not a like for like comparison.
Like for like is by the by.
He had 4 seasons, 'Arry had 2. It's all about results, MON failed to deliver and due to his over reliance on the same basic 11, never would.
If you'd put MON in 'Arry's position at Spurs, they would never have made the top 4, for the simple reason that MON would never have signed the same players 'Arry did.
If we'd kept MON and thrown more money at him, we still wouldn't be any closer to the top 4, the wage bill would go into outer space and we'd have the likes of Jenas at £8m + sitting on the bench.
-
To be fair KG, i went down on saturday, and all we did when Carew came on was hoof the ball.
I thought MON did a reasonable job, i agree about the lack of movement, and inflexibility, that is why i would have loved a Hiddink down there, tactically astute, and very knowledgable.Maybe Hou will turn out to be as good, heres hopeing.
I think MON built a very good squad down there, that with a bit of tinkering, is not far off as good as any in the league.I'm over him, and looking foward to Hou, or whoever , in charge, because with Gabby, AYoung, Delph, Ireland etc, we have the basis of a very good team.
What does get on my nerves, is the constan snipeing at MON. We will look back in 10 yrs, and think what a good time it was, can't say that very often being a Villa fan.
-
I can see him managing Newcastle. I wouldn't bet against him managing Liverpool as I think the knives have started to come out (somewhat undeservedly I must say) for Roy.
-
Woy Hodgson was insane to take the Liverpool job, such a thankless task and he'll be booted out the minute new owners take over.
-
not every manager is good enough to get a team into the top 4, we will never know if MON was at VP.
We already know, he failed to do it and had 4 seasons to try. 'Arry did it in two.
He wouldn't have done it in two with squad MON inherited so it's not a like for like comparison.
Like for like is by the by.
He had 4 seasons, 'Arry had 2. It's all about results, MON failed to deliver and due to his over reliance on the same basic 11, never would.
If you'd put MON in 'Arry's position at Spurs, they would never have made the top 4, for the simple reason that MON would never have signed the same players 'Arry did.
If we'd kept MON and thrown more money at him, we still wouldn't be any closer to the top 4, the wage bill would go into outer space and we'd have the likes of Jenas at £8m + sitting on the bench.
Spurs paid £7m for Jenas and he's regularly on their bench.
It's a pointless and irrelevant argument, he's done a good job at Spurs but it's a different one to what was required at Villa.
-
I don't think it's pointless and irrelevant to say that MON could not do what 'Arry did, even if MON had took over Spurs instead of him.
-
I can see him managing Newcastle. I wouldn't bet against him managing Liverpool as I think the knives have started to come out (somewhat undeservedly I must say) for Roy.
As long as he takes his coaching staff with him, I don't care where he goes. I still think Sunderland are a more likely bet with Newcastle not far behind.
In PR terms, MON will ride the "the club I supported as a boy" excuse to justify his move there. None of the big clubs will touch him.
-
To be fair KG, i went down on saturday, and all we did when Carew came on was hoof the ball.
I thought MON did a reasonable job, i agree about the lack of movement, and inflexibility, that is why i would have loved a Hiddink down there, tactically astute, and very knowledgable.Maybe Hou will turn out to be as good, heres hopeing.
I think MON built a very good squad down there, that with a bit of tinkering, is not far off as good as any in the league.I'm over him, and looking foward to Hou, or whoever , in charge, because with Gabby, AYoung, Delph, Ireland etc, we have the basis of a very good team.
What does get on my nerves, is the constan snipeing at MON. We will look back in 10 yrs, and think what a good time it was, can't say that very often being a Villa fan.
It depends what we do from this point onwards.
If we go through a rake of managers and struggle at the arse end of the table then, yes, the relative security of top 6 and occasional dreams of top 4 may seem like glory days in a few years.
At the moment though, it's more on a par with the JG era. I accept that it's harder to finish 6th now that it was then, but whichever way you care to dress it up 6th shouldn't be cause for celebration, or lionizing a manager for such a rare achievement. Unless you''re a small club on tight resources.
The MON era also helped to erode the importance of European football at VP, something which I never thought I'd see. Forget talk of CL, which -although it remains a target- shouldn't be demanded/ expected as of right. But a club of Villa's size should be competing in Europe, at least taking the UEFA Cup seriously.
Where is the incentive now to finish 5th or 6th if we're not going to even bother?
That practically puts us on a par with sides like Wigan, Bolton et al who've stated that they'd rather not even qualify as they'd much prefer to concentrate on staying in the Prem. Suddenly football becomes much greyer - and it was plenty grey enough under O'Neill.
I say none of this in a triumphant or provocative manner. I had my doubts about the bloke from about April 2008 onwards but I wanted so badly to be wrong. Recalling the hope and feeling around the club when he pulled into the North Stand carpark in August 2006 and reconciling that with the actual reality of his time with us is a hard thing to do.
There were good moments, and good players signed. But his leaving above all else will frame how many remember him. And it's not as if he has even a measure of success in his four years with us to counter that. Despite operating under more favourable conditions than any other Villa manager. Despite spending more than traditional big hitters like Man U, Arsenal and Liverpool.
Opportunity wasted in my book, primarily by him.
-
I still think Sunderland are a more likely bet with Newcastle not far behind.
well, if he's a man of honour ( and that's a 50-page thread in itself) he'll never manage Newcastle.
Sunderland, maybe......
long link, soz
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/he-was-martin-oneills-boyhood-hero-now-admiration-is-on-the-other-foot-466336.html
-
We might have done if we had spent twice as much (gross and net) on our squad in the last four years, which is what Spurs did.
Are there border guards when you enter the realms of fantasy, or is it like driving into Scotland and there's just a big sign saying "WELCOME TO LA-LA LAND"?
Villa transfer balance sheet - clicky (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/aston-villa/transferbilanz/verein_405.html)
Spurs transfer balance sheet - clicky (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/tottenham-hotspur/transferbilanz/verein_148.html)
Villa 2006/2007 through 2010/2011 - Transfer spend £148, 500,000 Transfer Revenue £65,605,500 Transfer Total £82, 894,500
Spurs 2006/2007 through 2010/2011 - Transfer Spend £316,395,000 Transfer Revenue £156,735,000 Transfer Total £159,660,000
I don't suppose the people who run that website have any particular axe to grind. They don't care one way or another about Martin O'Neill or Randy Lerner. I'm sure they've made mistakes in some places (they haven't added Ireland's fee to the Milner fee for example) but that looks about the best researched set of figures I know of on the internet, perhaps you have a more definite source?
-
We might have done if we had spent twice as much (gross and net) on our squad in the last four years, which is what Spurs did.
Are there border guards when you enter the realms of fantasy, or is it like driving into Scotland and there's just a big sign saying "WELCOME TO LA-LA LAND"?
Villa transfer balance sheet - clicky (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/aston-villa/transferbilanz/verein_405.html)
Spurs transfer balance sheet - clicky (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/tottenham-hotspur/transferbilanz/verein_148.html)
Villa 2006/2007 through 2010/2011 - Transfer spend £148, 500,000 Transfer Revenue £65,605,500 Transfer Total £82, 894,500
Spurs 2006/2007 through 2010/2011 - Transfer Spend £316,395,000 Transfer Revenue £156,735,000 Transfer Total £159,660,000
I don't suppose the people who run that website have any particular axe to grind. They don't care one way or another about Martin O'Neill or Randy Lerner. I'm sure they've made mistakes in some places (they haven't added Ireland's fee to the Milner fee for example) but that looks about the best researched set of figures I know of on the internet, perhaps you have a more definite source?
You mean apart from figures plucked out of thin air, which is what these seem to be? Nigel Reo Coker £11.25 million? Collymore £9.5 million? I think not.
-
Spot on my view KG tbh, and as i said before, to do better than MON, with the same squad/budget etc, you need a better manager, i think Hiddink/Jol was possibly that man.
But , i do think we might look back on MONs reign and think that it was an opportunity missed.
-
Without a doubt it was an opportunity missed. The missing was done by O'Neill, who inherited the most ideal conditions any Villa manager has ever known, and couldn't in rough terms do any better than John Gregory.
-
We might have done if we had spent twice as much (gross and net) on our squad in the last four years, which is what Spurs did.
Are there border guards when you enter the realms of fantasy, or is it like driving into Scotland and there's just a big sign saying "WELCOME TO LA-LA LAND"?
Villa transfer balance sheet - clicky (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/aston-villa/transferbilanz/verein_405.html)
Spurs transfer balance sheet - clicky (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/tottenham-hotspur/transferbilanz/verein_148.html)
Villa 2006/2007 through 2010/2011 - Transfer spend £148, 500,000 Transfer Revenue £65,605,500 Transfer Total £82, 894,500
Spurs 2006/2007 through 2010/2011 - Transfer Spend £316,395,000 Transfer Revenue £156,735,000 Transfer Total £159,660,000
I don't suppose the people who run that website have any particular axe to grind. They don't care one way or another about Martin O'Neill or Randy Lerner. I'm sure they've made mistakes in some places (they haven't added Ireland's fee to the Milner fee for example) but that looks about the best researched set of figures I know of on the internet, perhaps you have a more definite source?
You mean apart from figures plucked out of thin air, which is what these seem to be? Nigel Reo Coker £11.25 million? Collymore £9.5 million? I think not.
So the best set of researched figures on the internet are £8 million out re re Milner/ Ireland deal, value NRC at £3 Million + more than he actually moved for and Collywobles at £2+million more? That sounds just a wee bit flawed and really not that well researched. Not researched at all, in fact.
But might be latched onto with gusto by anyone looking to make an argument that Spurs regularly outspend us and no Villa manager can realistically be compared to his Tottingham counterpart.
Spooky, eh?
I'm not going to waste an evening trawling through all their deals and all ours, but there were few (if any summers) I can recall since 2006 where Spurs outspent us. They sometimes signed players we liked the look of (Bentley), but by the close of August we'd generally spent similar amounts. If we hadn't, we'd have had multiple threads devoted to the subject. And we didn't.
Their income re deals for Carrick and Berbatov has probably been healthier though, I'll readily concede that.
-
We might have done if we had spent twice as much (gross and net) on our squad in the last four years, which is what Spurs did.
Are there border guards when you enter the realms of fantasy, or is it like driving into Scotland and there's just a big sign saying "WELCOME TO LA-LA LAND"?
Villa transfer balance sheet - clicky (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/aston-villa/transferbilanz/verein_405.html)
Spurs transfer balance sheet - clicky (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/tottenham-hotspur/transferbilanz/verein_148.html)
Villa 2006/2007 through 2010/2011 - Transfer spend £148, 500,000 Transfer Revenue £65,605,500 Transfer Total £82, 894,500
Spurs 2006/2007 through 2010/2011 - Transfer Spend £316,395,000 Transfer Revenue £156,735,000 Transfer Total £159,660,000
I don't suppose the people who run that website have any particular axe to grind. They don't care one way or another about Martin O'Neill or Randy Lerner. I'm sure they've made mistakes in some places (they haven't added Ireland's fee to the Milner fee for example) but that looks about the best researched set of figures I know of on the internet, perhaps you have a more definite source?
You mean apart from figures plucked out of thin air, which is what these seem to be? Nigel Reo Coker £11.25 million? Collymore £9.5 million? I think not.
2006 till this summer (giving the club the benefit of the doubt over the lack of a manager to spend it)
Spurs - net spend = 78
Villa - net spend = 82 (or, as VD would have it, "half as much")
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/tottenham-hotspur-transfers.html
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/aston-villa-transfers.html
Some quality figures from VD's carefully selected source
David Bentley - £20m
Berbatov - £35m
Corluka - £12.4m
Darren Bent - £22.275m
-
The figures above seem to blow the 'Harry had a massive head start over MON' theory out the water.
I suppose the 'Well Redknapp has done okay, but he has a big mouth' one will be trotted out again
-
Without a doubt it was an opportunity missed. The missing was done by O'Neill, who inherited the most ideal conditions any Villa manager has ever known, and couldn't in rough terms do any better than John Gregory.
And in turn, Houiller has inherited a very good squad.
-
Spot on my view KG tbh, and as i said before, to do better than MON, with the same squad/budget etc, you need a better manager, i think Hiddink/Jol was possibly that man.
But , i do think we might look back on MONs reign and think that it was an opportunity missed.
You certainly need someone who can spend money better than MON can, that's for sure.
If indeed we are not spending because we need to sort the wage bill out, then it's worth reflecting on the likes of Beye, Heskey, Sidwell, and the drain they are on our resources, and who signed them.
And in the case of some like Beye, Shorey before him, Harewood, players the manager signed then almost immediately discarded. That's about as cavalier as it gets with money.
-
Spot on my view KG tbh, and as i said before, to do better than MON, with the same squad/budget etc, you need a better manager, i think Hiddink/Jol was possibly that man.
But , i do think we might look back on MONs reign and think that it was an opportunity missed.
You certainly need someone who can spend money better than MON can, that's for sure.
You'd have thought with a viewpoint as such, that you'd have been pleased that he walked before he had the opportuniy to spend the Milner money.
-
Just taking the Heskey and Beye wages, it's a massive £5.2m a year.
Astonishing.
If MON couldn't accept the reality of the situation, he was living in a dream world.
-
Without a doubt it was an opportunity missed. The missing was done by O'Neill, who inherited the most ideal conditions any Villa manager has ever known, and couldn't in rough terms do any better than John Gregory.
And in turn, Houiller has inherited a very good squad.
Some decent players yes - but a very good squad - not on your nelly.
-
It would be interesting to see what JG will be like if he have Randy's backing. But he had his chance.
-
Spot on my view KG tbh, and as i said before, to do better than MON, with the same squad/budget etc, you need a better manager, i think Hiddink/Jol was possibly that man.
But , i do think we might look back on MONs reign and think that it was an opportunity missed.
You certainly need someone who can spend money better than MON can, that's for sure.
You'd have thought with a viewpoint as such, that you'd have been pleased that he walked before he had the opportuniy to spend the Milner money.
I thought he hadn't done enough to be sacked. Far from it.
I thought he deserved another year.
I would have been happy for him to have the money to spend. Managers need to be backed.
I wasn't heartbroken to lose him, but i was exceptionally angry at the disruptive way he did it.
All the above is entirely inconsequential, though, as he chose to leave. I honestly think to read some of the posts on here, you'd think we'd sacked him or something.
-
The figures above seem to blow the 'Harry had a massive head start over MON' theory out the water.
I think he did have a better (though hugely unbalanced) squad compared to the one MON inherited. But we weren't as bad as many make out in Aug 2006, nor Tottenham as good as many make out for Nov 2008.
It's simplistic in the extreme to adhere to the logic that more money spent on the squad before his arrival = 'arry had a massive head start.
What if part of that reckless spending was the reason the corroded Toby jug was in the job in the first place? He was joining lower/mid table Tottenham, not Barcelona. What if he was told he'd need to offload players (as he was) to do business in his first summer?
Besides which I'm sick of hearing about the Lillywhite cants at this stage. I hope they sink without trace, but it will take something like melted face getting the England job to bring that about. They may well be an established CL side by then, fully capable of sourcing a top class replacement. But I sincerely hope not.
-
Perhaps this helps. Taken from the spurs annual accounts
2007
“Player spending since 30 June 2006 was £81m”
2008
During the financial year the following players joined the Club:
JonathanWoodgate, Alan Hutton, Younes Kaboul, Kevin-Prince
Boateng, Chris Gunter, Gilberto, Daniel Rose and Yuri Berchiche
for a combined sum of £32.7m.
Additions 32,675
2009
During the fi nancial year the following players joined the Club:
Luka Modric, Giovani Dos Santos, Heurelho Gomes, David Bentley,
Vedran Corluka, Cesar Sanchez, Roman Pavlyuchenko, Wilson
Palacios, Carlo Cudicini, John Bostock, Paul-Jose M’Poku Ebunge
and Mirko Ranieri whilst Jermain Defoe, Pascal Chimbonda and
Robbie Keane all re-signed. The total cost of
all of these players was £119.3m.
Additions 119,336
2010 – Taken from the 2009 annual report
“Since the year end we have boosted our squad with the following
signings: Peter Crouch, Sebastien Bassong, Niko Kranjcar, Kyle
Naughton, Kyle Walker and James Walker at a cost of £29.4m.”
This summer they've added Kaboul (£5m), Van der Vaart (£9m) and Sandro (£9m)
So that works out at £285m spent on buying players since June 2006, with all but the last £23m (from transfermarkt.co.uk) taken directly from the spurs annual reports.
I said in my original post “I'm sure they've made mistakes in some places (they haven't added Ireland's fee to the Milner fee for example)”. The official figures in the spurs accounts are about 10% lower than the stats on the link I use and a bit more than 25% higher than the figures on the link Paulie uses.
I’d much rather there was more transparency surrounding club finances and the transfer market. Until that happens, I’ll keep referencing the sites that I think have the best info and data. At the moment, transfermarkt.co.uk is the most comprehensive for player info and data that I know. If anyone knows a better one then please let me know but it isn't the one Paulie linked to.
-
I’d much rather there was more transparency surrounding club finances and the transfer market. Until that happens, I’ll keep referencing the sites that I think have the best info and data. At the moment, transfermarkt.co.uk is the most comprehensive for player info and data that I know. If anyone knows a better one then please let me know but it isn't the one Paulie linked to.
It's much more accurate than the one you chose, with its 20m pound David Bentley.
Incidentally, Kaboul didn't join last summer, Sandro cost 6m and VdV was widely reported to have cost 8.
With your looseness with figures (ie 14m this summer, not 23m), it's really no wonder you get yourself so worked up about Spurs all the time.
-
I’d much rather there was more transparency surrounding club finances and the transfer market. Until that happens, I’ll keep referencing the sites that I think have the best info and data. At the moment, transfermarkt.co.uk is the most comprehensive for player info and data that I know. If anyone knows a better one then please let me know but it isn't the one Paulie linked to.
It's much more accurate than the one you chose, with its 20m pound David Bentley.
Incidentally, Kaboul didn't join last summer, Sandro cost 6m and VdV was widely reported to have cost 8.
With your looseness with figures (ie 14m this summer, not 23m), it's really no wonder you get yourself so worked up about Spurs all the time.
Soccerbase always seems more or less accurate.
I'm pretty sure they don't have Petrov costing us £9m or Ashley Young costing £11.8m either.
-
For someone with such an obvious fetish for stats I find it hard to understand why they are so frequently wrong.
If I was cynical I would stay it's a sad, desperate attempt to prop up an already piss poor argument.
But I'm not, so I won't.
-
According to their annual accounts reports, Spurs spent £262.4m on player transfers between summer 2006/2007 and the start of last season.
Since then they've bought Kaboul, Van der Vaart and Sandro.
Is that OK?
-
According to their annual accounts reports, Spurs spent £262.4m on player transfers between summer 2006/2007 and the start of last season.
Since then they've bought Kaboul, Van der Vaart and Sandro.
Is that OK?
Oh, it's ok, it's just that you said they bought Kaboul in the summer. And then gave overinflated figures for two of the players they did buy. And then claimed that some random German site where David Bentley cost them 20m is the most reliable source for transfer fees.
Before and after all of the above, there was some tedious dirge about Spurs which caused my eyes to glaze over.
Still, if it wasn't Spurs, it'd be something else being used to make MON's achievements look superhuman, I guess.
-
According to their annual accounts reports, Spurs spent £262.4m on player transfers between summer 2006/2007 and the start of last season.
Since then they've bought Kaboul, Van der Vaart and Sandro.
Is that OK?
According to Spurs' accounts they spend less on wages than we do. Spurs' accounts seem to vary in reliability from Rosetta Stone to Hitler Diaries to suit.
-
According to their annual accounts reports, Spurs spent £262.4m on player transfers between summer 2006/2007 and the start of last season.
Since then they've bought Kaboul, Van der Vaart and Sandro.
Is that OK?
According to Spurs' accounts they spend less on wages than we do. Spurs' accounts seem to vary in reliability from Rosetta Stone to Hitler Diaries to suit.
Two years ago, he was telling us we'd overtaken Spurs etc etc etc.
Now he's telling us we're lucky to be on the same spreadsheet as them, let alone in the same league. Apart from anything else, I don't see the need to compare us against Spurs at every opportunity.
What's more, it was only six months ago that he was telling me he'd seen the light from the days of demanding big spending, and was convinced that the slow, incremental way is the way to do it.
Now, it seems there's a direct correlation between money spent and league place (which seemed to desert Spurs two years ago, but hey ho), the quality of football doesn't matter, and we can only expect failure with our stingey ways.
-
Without a doubt it was an opportunity missed. The missing was done by O'Neill, who inherited the most ideal conditions any Villa manager has ever known, and couldn't in rough terms do any better than John Gregory.
And in turn, Houiller has inherited a very good squad.
It certainly has the potential to be a very well balanced starting eleven but not brilliant in depth.
We don't have much in the locker as far as game-changing players go but I don't think Houllier (with the knowledge and contacts he supposedly has) will find it too hard a challenge to find a player or two who can give us that ability.
There's a few players that either need to be re-energised and introduced back into the squad or shipped out, there's a delay on some injured players but all in all, Houllier doesn't have to completely start from scratch and re-build everything. MoN seemed to have a good plan happening then must have stuck that plan through the wash by mistake and never quite remembered what it was he was supposed to do.
-
We don't have much in the locker as far as game-changing players go but I don't think Houllier (with the knowledge and contacts he supposedly has) will find it too hard a challenge to find a player or two who can give us that ability. .
I think we do Troy.
I struggle to recall a time when we had a better creative arsenal than Ashley Young, Stephen Ireland, Stewart Downing and Marc Albrighton on the books. With Delph to return too, lets not forget.
What we need is the balance and the player (s) to sit and let our creative types do their thing.
And someone to finish off the chances created, of course.
-
We don't have much in the locker as far as game-changing players go but I don't think Houllier (with the knowledge and contacts he supposedly has) will find it too hard a challenge to find a player or two who can give us that ability. .
I think we do Troy.
I struggle to recall a time when we had a better creative arsenal than Ashley Young, Stephen Ireland, Stewart Downing and Marc Albrighton on the books. With Delph to return too, lets not forget.
What we need is the balance and the player (s) to sit and let our creative types do their thing.
And someone to finish off the chances created, of course.
I agree.
The thing we've so plainly lacked this season so far is bottle. We've shown - at least in spells - that we've got a bit of guile when we need it, but the lack of bottle has let us down several times.
-
Sorry, wrong thread.
-
That's indicative of a lack of confidence too though.
Starting brightly but going to pieces when we score. In fact I'd say it's more a confidence thing than a bottle job. It's virtually the same set of players as last year.
Dunne concerns me though. Not just his early pre season form and weight. But the injury he's carrying is a long-standing one. It's not the kind of thing you shrug off in a few weeks.
He's had it for a few years and we could be seeing a player facing the death rattle of his career.
When you lack that stability and organisation at the back -as we do at present- it affects the whole side. A fully fit and functioning Dunne and I'd wager we'd have seen the Stoke game through. I doubt we'd have been battered by Newcastle either.
-
According to their annual accounts reports, Spurs spent £262.4m on player transfers between summer 2006/2007 and the start of last season.
Since then they've bought Kaboul, Van der Vaart and Sandro.
Is that OK?
Oh, it's ok, it's just that you said they bought Kaboul in the summer. And then gave overinflated figures for two of the players they did buy. And then claimed that some random German site where David Bentley cost them 20m is the most reliable source for transfer fees.
Before and after all of the above, there was some tedious dirge about Spurs which caused my eyes to glaze over.
Still, if it wasn't Spurs, it'd be something else being used to make MON's achievements look superhuman, I guess.
You're right, I should have said since the start of last season (when the official accounts figures run to) they've added Kaboul (£5m), Van der Vaart (£9m) and Sandro (£9m). As I explained, the figures for those 3 players are taken from the website I referenced earlier.
I said that the website transfermarkt.co.uk is the best one I know. Having compared all of the transfer prices they list against the Spurs accounts, they are about 10% too high overall. That's a lot closer than the website and figures you suggested, Soccerbase has too many players listed only as "signed", so yes, it is the best source of that information that I know of.
Still, we now know that Spurs have spent £262.4m and have since added Kaboul, Van der Vaart and Sandro. I reckon that's about double what we have spent during the same time.
-
As we've already shown its Villa figures are plucked out of thin air, you'll excuse me for treating anything else it says with a great deal of suspicion.
-
Without a doubt it was an opportunity missed. The missing was done by O'Neill, who inherited the most ideal conditions any Villa manager has ever known, and couldn't in rough terms do any better than John Gregory.
Absolutely. That's how I will remember MON's regin, as probably the biggest wasted opportunity in the club's history.
-
I'm not going to slag him off but I'd like to know the full story. Because it just looks to me like he had a lot of resources behind him, was asked to help clear some of the decks before anybody else came in (which is fair enough, they were his crew that were not scrubbing up after all) and he'd decided he'd had enough and left us at the worst possible time, he also took most of the first team coaching staff with him. I can't forgive him for that.
We had a really encouraging few years and then cracks were starting to appear and the football was becoming turgid. In pre season he just looked depressed and vacant. He should have decided to leave there and then but he didn't. So I dont blame people for thinking the timing of his departure was vindictive. It was at least disrespectful, unprofessional and arrogant.
He's a good if limited manager and I don't hate him but I've lost most of the respect I ever had for him and think Randy at least deserved better than this. We deserved better than this.
I just hope Houllier does well and we can draw a line under this sorry episode as soon as possible.
What I don't agree with here Maz is the 'He took most of the coaching staff him' bit. I think they followed out of a sense of loyalty to O'Neill. The board knew they came as a package when employing them so must have known that they would eventually leave as a package.
-
As we've already shown its Villa figures are plucked out of thin air, you'll excuse me for treating anything else it says with a great deal of suspicion.
There are no recognised official sources for club finances and player transfer data, so I think you are right to treat the figures on those stats websites with caution. I've made that point myself each time I've referred to that transfer website. That doesn't mean that we can't try and understand club finances.
The figures I've put up there from the official Spurs accounts show that they have spent £280m+ on players since summer 2006. Using whichever figures you choose, we've spent approx. half of that gross amount and from a much lower starting position in terms of squad strength in summer 2006. That has to be a hugely significant factor when measuring the clubs progress.
Ultimately this isn’t about finances, Lerner, Faulkner, Krulak, O’Neill or Houllier, it is about what level of expectation we as supporters should heap on our club.
It's all well and good for the board to declare that their ambitions for the club to compete for silverware and play in the CL remains unchanged. What I don’t understand is how that ambition is reconciled with our recently announced focus on reducing costs? Are we really expecting to compete with that level of investment relative to our competitors? And if so, how is that supposed work?
-
It will work on the decisions the manager and his staff make. Many myself included rate Moyes and Grant as decent blokes, their present position would suggest how wrong I am so far.
Long term I feel I will be justified as I hope to be in thinking Houllier is not the best choice but still a good one for us at this moment in time.
-
Will we be getting any more figures from our competitors, or would they not help your case?
-
I'm not going to slag him off but I'd like to know the full story. Because it just looks to me like he had a lot of resources behind him, was asked to help clear some of the decks before anybody else came in (which is fair enough, they were his crew that were not scrubbing up after all) and he'd decided he'd had enough and left us at the worst possible time, he also took most of the first team coaching staff with him. I can't forgive him for that.
We had a really encouraging few years and then cracks were starting to appear and the football was becoming turgid. In pre season he just looked depressed and vacant. He should have decided to leave there and then but he didn't. So I dont blame people for thinking the timing of his departure was vindictive. It was at least disrespectful, unprofessional and arrogant.
He's a good if limited manager and I don't hate him but I've lost most of the respect I ever had for him and think Randy at least deserved better than this. We deserved better than this.
I just hope Houllier does well and we can draw a line under this sorry episode as soon as possible.
What I don't agree with here Maz is the 'He took most of the coaching staff him' bit. I think they followed out of a sense of loyalty to O'Neill. The board knew they came as a package when employing them so must have known that they would eventually leave as a package.
The board didn't didn't recruit them. HDE did.
-
Will we be getting any more figures from our competitors, or would they not help your case?
Yesterday you thought the opinion that Spurs have spent double was only worthy of a nice big "WELCOME TO LA-LA-LAND" response. Having now found it was you on the wrong side of the border, aren't you even a teeny bit inclined to reassess your own opinion?
-
Will we be getting any more figures from our competitors, or would they not help your case?
Yesterday you thought the opinion that Spurs have spent double was only worthy of a nice big "WELCOME TO LA-LA-LAND" response. Having now found it was you on the wrong side of the border, aren't you even a teeny bit inclined to reassess your own opinion?
That's amusing, coming from someone who said Spurs' wage bill was wrong because it just was.
-
Will we be getting any more figures from our competitors, or would they not help your case?
Yesterday you thought the opinion that Spurs have spent double was only worthy of a nice big "WELCOME TO LA-LA-LAND" response. Having now found it was you on the wrong side of the border, aren't you even a teeny bit inclined to reassess your own opinion?
That's amusing, coming from someone who said Spurs' wage bill was wrong because it just was.
So no then? You've nothing more to add on this particular subject? I can now talk freely about Spurs spending double the money Villa have without fear of you stifling the debate with one of your snide comments?
-
Yes, you're free to bore the life out of everybody on your one man crusade to prove... erm, oh who the fuck cares, I can't even be arsed to finish off my sarcasm.
-
According to their annual accounts reports, Spurs spent £262.4m on player transfers between summer 2006/2007 and the start of last season.
Is that OK?
Either my calculator is faulty or that's not what the figures in the accounts actually add up to.
-
It's like watching "Clarey Blue Villa" teach English as David Lodge looks on.
-
According to their annual accounts reports, Spurs spent £262.4m on player transfers between summer 2006/2007 and the start of last season.
Is that OK?
Either my calculator is faulty or that's not what the figures in the accounts actually add up to.
Stop encouraging him!!!!
-
According to their annual accounts reports, Spurs spent £262.4m on player transfers between summer 2006/2007 and the start of last season.
Is that OK?
Either my calculator is faulty or that's not what the figures in the accounts actually add up to.
Damn! Go on then, explain it to me.
-
Will we be getting any more figures from our competitors, or would they not help your case?
Yesterday you thought the opinion that Spurs have spent double was only worthy of a nice big "WELCOME TO LA-LA-LAND" response. Having now found it was you on the wrong side of the border, aren't you even a teeny bit inclined to reassess your own opinion?
That's amusing, coming from someone who said Spurs' wage bill was wrong because it just was.
So no then? You've nothing more to add on this particular subject? I can now talk freely about Spurs spending double the money Villa have without fear of you stifling the debate with one of your snide comments?
And again, the irony-o-meter goes through the roof.
-
I've nothing to add to this. Nothing. But didn't think that would stop adding to this insightful thread. It is [probably one of the best posts over the past few pages in fact. Can this have its own forum? On an accountants site maybe?
-
Lol the daily star, its gotta be true!
-
It's like trench warfare, but slightly less fun.
Lions bored shitless by dogs that can't count.
-
Spurs
Excellent! I'm delighted to see the meeting went so well.
-
It's like trench warfare, but slightly less fun.
Lions bored shitless by dogs that can't count.
Ha ha!
Bear in mind that this is a War of Attrition. At least WW1 lasted only 4 years.
I really want to know if that black ops team have reached the Captain's high command yet to put us out of our misery.
-
Actually WWI is probably a duff comparison.
As the trench warfare aspect of that fiasco was at best a 0-0 bore draw.
This episode is boring, I grant you that. But what recent skirmish or dispute can you think of where one side just refuses to acknowledge reality to the point that they become a joke?
I can't think of one. But this guy probably can:
(http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2897/comicalali.jpg) (http://img214.imageshack.us/i/comicalali.jpg/)
"Take my word for it, Tottingham's wage bill is higher and they've spent double the amount Aston Villa have on transfers."