Bottler to manage grief merchants?

[BannedUserIAT]

Mon did what he's always done. When he found out he wasn't doing a good enough job and the money he'd wasted was about to come and kick him hard up the rear end he quit.
Difference with Villa was that he didn't find a convenient enough excuse.

That's just pure bullshit...

Do you actually believe any of the the crap you post?

Of course he doesn't. It what makes him the Über-troll.

[PaulTheVillan]

I thought it was something like this...

Money was being wasted on wages on players that wern't getting a look in.
Randy wanted to address this issue and MON didn't.

He threw a strop and walked.

Prick.

Not according to The General and Pelty.

They both said he had agreed to try to reduce the wage bill but then something changed.

My guess is as that he decided we needed players even though they'd failed to sell and was told no so he chucked in the towell. However, for some reason they don't want us to know what happened so all any of us can do is speculate.

Right.

This subject is getting boring.

Onwards and upwards

[Mazrim]

I'm not going to slag him off but I'd like to know the full story. Because it just looks to me like he had a lot of resources behind him, was asked to help clear some of the decks before anybody else came in (which is fair enough, they were his crew that were not scrubbing up after all) and he'd decided he'd had enough and left us at the worst possible time, he also took most of the first team coaching staff with him. I can't forgive him for that.

We had a really encouraging few years and then cracks were starting to appear and the football was becoming turgid. In pre season he just looked depressed and vacant. He should have decided to leave there and then but he didn't. So I dont blame people for thinking the timing of his departure was vindictive. It was at least disrespectful, unprofessional and arrogant.

He's a good if limited manager and I don't hate him but I've lost most of the respect I ever had for him and think Randy at least deserved better than this. We deserved better than this.
I just hope Houllier does well and we can draw a line under this sorry episode as soon as possible.

[JD]

I'm not going to slag him off but I'd like to know the full story. Because it just looks to me like he had a lot of resources behind him, was asked to help clear some of the decks before anybody else came in (which is fair enough, they were his crew that were not scrubbing up after all) and he'd decided he'd had enough and left us at the worst possible time, he also took most of the first team coaching staff with him. I can't forgive him for that.

We had a really encouraging few years and then cracks were starting to appear and the football was becoming turgid. In pre season he just looked depressed and vacant. He should have decided to leave there and then but he didn't. So I dont blame people for thinking the timing of his departure was vindictive. It was at least disrespectful, unprofessional and arrogant.

He's a good if limited manager and I don't hate him but I've lost most of the respect I ever had for him and think Randy at least deserved better than this. We deserved better than this.
I just hope Houllier does well and we can draw a line under this sorry episode as soon as possible.

Thats how I feel as well Maz. Time to move on I think. 

[Rip Van We Go Again]

I'm not going to slag him off but I'd like to know the full story. Because it just looks to me like he had a lot of resources behind him, was asked to help clear some of the decks before anybody else came in (which is fair enough, they were his crew that were not scrubbing up after all) and he'd decided he'd had enough and left us at the worst possible time, he also took most of the first team coaching staff with him. I can't forgive him for that.

We had a really encouraging few years and then cracks were starting to appear and the football was becoming turgid. In pre season he just looked depressed and vacant. He should have decided to leave there and then but he didn't. So I dont blame people for thinking the timing of his departure was vindictive. It was at least disrespectful, unprofessional and arrogant.

He's a good if limited manager and I don't hate him but I've lost most of the respect I ever had for him and think Randy at least deserved better than this. We deserved better than this.
I just hope Houllier does well and we can draw a line under this sorry episode as soon as possible.

A perfect summing up of the whole sorry saga.

[pauliewalnuts]

I'm not going to slag him off but I'd like to know the full story. Because it just looks to me like he had a lot of resources behind him, was asked to help clear some of the decks before anybody else came in (which is fair enough, they were his crew that were not scrubbing up after all) and he'd decided he'd had enough and left us at the worst possible time, he also took most of the first team coaching staff with him. I can't forgive him for that.

We had a really encouraging few years and then cracks were starting to appear and the football was becoming turgid. In pre season he just looked depressed and vacant. He should have decided to leave there and then but he didn't. So I dont blame people for thinking the timing of his departure was vindictive. It was at least disrespectful, unprofessional and arrogant.

He's a good if limited manager and I don't hate him but I've lost most of the respect I ever had for him and think Randy at least deserved better than this. We deserved better than this.
I just hope Houllier does well and we can draw a line under this sorry episode as soon as possible.

Absolutely spot on.

[Concrete John]

I'm not going to slag him off but I'd like to know the full story. Because it just looks to me like he had a lot of resources behind him, was asked to help clear some of the decks before anybody else came in (which is fair enough, they were his crew that were not scrubbing up after all) and he'd decided he'd had enough and left us at the worst possible time, he also took most of the first team coaching staff with him. I can't forgive him for that.

We had a really encouraging few years and then cracks were starting to appear and the football was becoming turgid. In pre season he just looked depressed and vacant. He should have decided to leave there and then but he didn't. So I dont blame people for thinking the timing of his departure was vindictive. It was at least disrespectful, unprofessional and arrogant.

He's a good if limited manager and I don't hate him but I've lost most of the respect I ever had for him and think Randy at least deserved better than this. We deserved better than this.
I just hope Houllier does well and we can draw a line under this sorry episode as soon as possible.

I largely agree with this.

However, the matter of him being arrogant and us having a loss of respect for him comes down to WHY he left 5 days before the season started.  Something changed from his meeting with Randy at the end of last season, where they both said he was staying.  Did the club move the goal posts or did Martin?  We don't know, and probably never will with any certainty, so I'll judge him on the football side of things and not draw conclusions as to his character from speculation.

[pauliewalnuts]

I'm not going to slag him off but I'd like to know the full story. Because it just looks to me like he had a lot of resources behind him, was asked to help clear some of the decks before anybody else came in (which is fair enough, they were his crew that were not scrubbing up after all) and he'd decided he'd had enough and left us at the worst possible time, he also took most of the first team coaching staff with him. I can't forgive him for that.

We had a really encouraging few years and then cracks were starting to appear and the football was becoming turgid. In pre season he just looked depressed and vacant. He should have decided to leave there and then but he didn't. So I dont blame people for thinking the timing of his departure was vindictive. It was at least disrespectful, unprofessional and arrogant.

He's a good if limited manager and I don't hate him but I've lost most of the respect I ever had for him and think Randy at least deserved better than this. We deserved better than this.
I just hope Houllier does well and we can draw a line under this sorry episode as soon as possible.

I largely agree with this.

However, the matter of him being arrogant and us having a loss of respect for him comes down to WHY he left 5 days before.  Something changed from hsi meeting with Randy at the end of last season, where they both said he was staying.  Did the club move the goal posts or did Martin?  We don't know, and probably never will with any certainty, so I'll judge him on the football side of things and not draw conclusions as to his character from speculation.

Isn't a large part of judging him on the football side of things his legacy in that area?

In which case you can hardly ignore leaving when he did and taking almost the entire football staff with him, surely?

Leaving when he did - in football terms - has almost certainly caused this season to be at best one of vastly reduced expectations (because of the uncertainty) and at worst a total write off.

[ktvillan]

I thought it was something like this...

Money was being wasted on wages on players that wern't getting a look in.
Randy wanted to address this issue and MON didn't.

He threw a strop and walked.

Prick.

Not according to The General and Pelty.

They both said he had agreed to try to reduce the wage bill but then something changed.

My guess is as that he decided we needed players even though they'd failed to sell and was told no so he chucked in the towell. However, for some reason they don't want us to know what happened so all any of us can do is speculate.

I'd agree with that, but I suspect the thing that changed was that O'Neill realised he couldn't shift the surplus players he'd agreed to shift.  The ones he'd put on big money and then fallen out with.  It was him that made them difficult to sell, and he'd painted himself into a corner.  Far easier to flounce out and blame Randy than admit his balls ups.   And I speak as one of the few who saw through the O'Neill facade and thought of him as arrogant and vindicative while he was still here.

[Concrete John]

Isn't a large part of judging him on the football side of things his legacy in that area?

In which case you can hardly ignore leaving when he did and taking almost the entire football staff with him, surely?

Leaving when he did - in football terms - has almost certainly caused this season to be at best one of vastly reduced expectations (because of the uncertainty) and at worst a total write off.

Not the way I see it.  His legacy is more then just this season.  And if the board had acted quicker and more proactively we may have had a new man in place sooner than 6 weeks after he left, which may have meant a few more points on the board and possibly still being in Europe.  He's not responsible for what happened after he left - however he is responsible for what happened while he was here and the playing squad left behind.

[pauliewalnuts]

Isn't a large part of judging him on the football side of things his legacy in that area?

In which case you can hardly ignore leaving when he did and taking almost the entire football staff with him, surely?

Leaving when he did - in football terms - has almost certainly caused this season to be at best one of vastly reduced expectations (because of the uncertainty) and at worst a total write off.

Not the way I see it.  His legacy is more then just this season.  And if the board had acted quicker and more proactively we may have had a new man in place sooner than 6 weeks after he left, which may have meant a few more points on the board and possibly still being in Europe.  He's not responsible for what happened after he left - however he is responsible for what happened while he was here and the playing squad left behind.

He's not responsible for anything since he left?

So none of the carnage from bailing when he did is his responsibility?

[Concrete John]

He's not responsible for anything since he left?

So none of the carnage from bailing when he did is his responsibility?

I probably didn't phrase that right!

My original point was that until we know the full and accurate story as to why he left when he did, my opinion remains based on his time as our manager, which as you know I think he did well in.  In doing so I'm leaving open the possibility that something happened behind the scenes that forced his hand into resigning.  And if that's the case then what we've seen since should also be blamed on whoever or whatever created the situation that meant he quit. 

So, I'm passing comment on his time when he was here and not what's followed.  Another reason to do that is I felt the board could have acted quicker in getting their new man in place.   

[sfx412]

Difference with Villa was that he didn't find a convenient enough excuse.

Yes Malcolm, because that is all his wife's lymphoma was. A convenient excuse.

It wasn't nice and I admire him for looking after her, no question, our own assistant manager faced similar problems, it can be a disastrous time. He, mind stepped down on a temporary basis, then resigned to look after his family.

It was still a convenient excuse as at the time the Celtic Board were making similar noises to those the Villa board were just before he quit.

Sad times indeed. Having suffered similar with my baby son its not something you get over in 5 minutes in fact you never really get over such trauma.

[sfx412]

He's not responsible for anything since he left?

So none of the carnage from bailing when he did is his responsibility?

I probably didn't phrase that right!

My original point was that until we know the full and accurate story as to why he left when he did, my opinion remains based on his time as our manager, which as you know I think he did well in.  In doing so I'm leaving open the possibility that something happened behind the scenes that forced his hand into resigning.  And if that's the case then what we've seen since should also be blamed on whoever or whatever created the situation that meant he quit. 

So, I'm passing comment on his time when he was here and not what's followed.  Another reason to do that is I felt the board could have acted quicker in getting their new man in place.   

Surely with the same argument we don't know the full details of how the managerial search, went. We have no idea how many choices they wanted didn't even get past the enquiry stage, let alone the interview stage. If it were several, and General K says Randy spent plenty of time flying around seeing people, it will have taken time.
Even at the interview stage its possible Houllier's contract with the FFA, delayed negotiations further while he started to talk about leaving. Further delays no doubt

[Concrete John]

Surely with the same argument we don't know the full details of how the managerial search, went. We have no idea how many choices they wanted didn't even get past the enquiry stage, let alone the interview stage. If it were several, and General K says Randy spent plenty of time flying around seeing people, it will have taken time.
Even at the interview stage its possible Houllier's contract with the FFA, delayed negotiations further while he started to talk about leaving. Further delays no doubt

Yes, it could.  It's one of the faults with Villa's closed door policy in that without knowing what's going on, you find it hard to judge them one way or the other.

However, what I wanted to see was them sit doen and decide who they wanted, not who applied, and then aggressively pursue that man and pay whatever compensation was necessary to get him.  OK, it may not have made us popular, but we're here to win football matches and trophies, not friends!