Bottler to manage grief merchants?

[barrysleftfoot]

   Spot on my view KG tbh, and as i said before, to do better than MON, with the same squad/budget etc, you need a better manager, i think Hiddink/Jol was possibly that man.

  But , i do think we might look back on MONs reign and think that it was an opportunity missed.

[dave.woodhall]

Without a doubt it was an opportunity missed. The missing was done by O'Neill, who inherited the most ideal conditions any Villa manager has ever known, and couldn't in rough terms do any better than John Gregory.

[KevinGage]

We might have done if we had spent twice as much (gross and net) on our squad in the last four years, which is what Spurs did.

Are there border guards when you enter the realms of fantasy,  or is it like driving into Scotland and there's just a big sign saying "WELCOME TO LA-LA LAND"?

Villa transfer balance sheet - clicky

Spurs transfer balance sheet - clicky


Villa 2006/2007 through 2010/2011 - Transfer spend £148, 500,000 Transfer Revenue £65,605,500 Transfer Total £82, 894,500

Spurs 2006/2007 through 2010/2011 - Transfer Spend £316,395,000 Transfer Revenue £156,735,000 Transfer Total £159,660,000

I don't suppose the people who run that website have any particular axe to grind. They don't care one way or another about Martin O'Neill or Randy Lerner. I'm sure they've made mistakes in some places (they haven't added Ireland's fee to the Milner fee for example) but that looks about the best researched set of figures I know of on the internet, perhaps you have a more definite source?

You mean apart from figures plucked out of thin air, which is what these seem to be? Nigel Reo Coker £11.25 million? Collymore £9.5 million? I think not.

So the best set of researched figures on the internet are £8 million out re re Milner/ Ireland deal, value NRC at £3 Million + more than he actually moved for and Collywobles at £2+million more?  That sounds just a wee bit flawed and really not that well researched. Not researched at all, in fact.

But might be latched onto with gusto by anyone looking to make an argument that Spurs regularly outspend us and no Villa manager can realistically be compared to his Tottingham counterpart. 

Spooky, eh?

I'm not going to waste an evening trawling through all their deals and all ours, but there were few (if any summers) I can recall since 2006 where Spurs outspent us. They sometimes signed players we liked the look of (Bentley), but by the close of August we'd generally spent similar amounts. If we hadn't, we'd have had multiple threads devoted to the subject. And we didn't.

Their income re deals for Carrick and Berbatov has probably been healthier though, I'll readily concede that.

[pauliewalnuts]

We might have done if we had spent twice as much (gross and net) on our squad in the last four years, which is what Spurs did.

Are there border guards when you enter the realms of fantasy,  or is it like driving into Scotland and there's just a big sign saying "WELCOME TO LA-LA LAND"?

Villa transfer balance sheet - clicky

Spurs transfer balance sheet - clicky


Villa 2006/2007 through 2010/2011 - Transfer spend £148, 500,000 Transfer Revenue £65,605,500 Transfer Total £82, 894,500

Spurs 2006/2007 through 2010/2011 - Transfer Spend £316,395,000 Transfer Revenue £156,735,000 Transfer Total £159,660,000

I don't suppose the people who run that website have any particular axe to grind. They don't care one way or another about Martin O'Neill or Randy Lerner. I'm sure they've made mistakes in some places (they haven't added Ireland's fee to the Milner fee for example) but that looks about the best researched set of figures I know of on the internet, perhaps you have a more definite source?

You mean apart from figures plucked out of thin air, which is what these seem to be? Nigel Reo Coker £11.25 million? Collymore £9.5 million? I think not.

2006 till this summer (giving the club the benefit of the doubt over the lack of a manager to spend it)

Spurs - net spend = 78
Villa - net spend = 82 (or, as VD would have it, "half as much")

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/tottenham-hotspur-transfers.html
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/aston-villa-transfers.html

Some quality figures from VD's carefully selected source

David Bentley - £20m
Berbatov - £35m
Corluka - £12.4m
Darren Bent - £22.275m

[Rip Van We Go Again]

The figures above seem to blow the 'Harry had a massive head start over MON' theory out the water.

I suppose the 'Well Redknapp has done okay, but he has a big mouth' one will be trotted out again

[Clampy]

Without a doubt it was an opportunity missed. The missing was done by O'Neill, who inherited the most ideal conditions any Villa manager has ever known, and couldn't in rough terms do any better than John Gregory.

And in turn, Houiller has inherited a very good squad.

[pauliewalnuts]

Spot on my view KG tbh, and as i said before, to do better than MON, with the same squad/budget etc, you need a better manager, i think Hiddink/Jol was possibly that man.

  But , i do think we might look back on MONs reign and think that it was an opportunity missed.

You certainly need someone who can spend money better than MON can, that's for sure.

If indeed we are not spending because we need to sort the wage bill out, then it's worth reflecting on the likes of Beye, Heskey, Sidwell, and the drain they are on our resources, and who signed them.

And in the case of some like Beye, Shorey before him, Harewood, players the manager signed then almost immediately discarded. That's about as cavalier as it gets with money.

[Clampy]

Spot on my view KG tbh, and as i said before, to do better than MON, with the same squad/budget etc, you need a better manager, i think Hiddink/Jol was possibly that man.

  But , i do think we might look back on MONs reign and think that it was an opportunity missed.

You certainly need someone who can spend money better than MON can, that's for sure.

You'd have thought with a viewpoint as such, that you'd have been pleased that he walked before he had the opportuniy to spend the Milner money.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

Just taking the Heskey and Beye wages, it's a massive £5.2m a year.

Astonishing.

If MON couldn't accept the reality of the situation, he was living in a dream world.

[TonyD]

Without a doubt it was an opportunity missed. The missing was done by O'Neill, who inherited the most ideal conditions any Villa manager has ever known, and couldn't in rough terms do any better than John Gregory.

And in turn, Houiller has inherited a very good squad.

Some decent players yes - but a very good squad - not on your nelly.

[Salsa Party Animal]

It would be interesting to see what JG will be like if he have Randy's backing. But he had his chance.

[pauliewalnuts]

Spot on my view KG tbh, and as i said before, to do better than MON, with the same squad/budget etc, you need a better manager, i think Hiddink/Jol was possibly that man.

  But , i do think we might look back on MONs reign and think that it was an opportunity missed.

You certainly need someone who can spend money better than MON can, that's for sure.

You'd have thought with a viewpoint as such, that you'd have been pleased that he walked before he had the opportuniy to spend the Milner money.

I thought he hadn't done enough to be sacked. Far from it.

I thought he deserved another year.

I would have been happy for him to have the money to spend. Managers need to be backed.

I wasn't heartbroken to lose him, but i was exceptionally angry at the disruptive way he did it.

All the above is entirely inconsequential, though, as he chose to leave. I honestly think to read some of the posts on here, you'd think we'd sacked him or something.

[KevinGage]

The figures above seem to blow the 'Harry had a massive head start over MON' theory out the water.

I think he did have a better (though hugely unbalanced) squad compared to the one MON inherited. But we weren't as bad as many make out in Aug 2006, nor Tottenham as good as many make out for Nov 2008.

It's simplistic in the extreme to adhere to the logic that more money spent on the squad before his arrival = 'arry had a massive head start.

What if part of that reckless spending was the reason the corroded Toby jug was in the job in the first place? He was joining lower/mid table Tottenham, not Barcelona. What if he was told he'd need to offload players (as he was) to do business in his first summer?

Besides which I'm sick of hearing about the Lillywhite cants at this stage. I hope they sink without trace, but it will take something like melted face getting the England job to bring that about. They may well be an established CL side by then, fully capable of sourcing a top class replacement. But I sincerely hope not.

[Villa'Zawg]

Perhaps this helps. Taken from the spurs annual accounts
2007

“Player spending since 30 June 2006 was £81m”

2008

During the financial year the following players joined the Club:
JonathanWoodgate, Alan Hutton, Younes Kaboul, Kevin-Prince
Boateng, Chris Gunter, Gilberto, Daniel Rose and Yuri Berchiche
for a combined sum of £32.7m.


Additions 32,675

2009

During the fi nancial year the following players joined the Club:
Luka Modric, Giovani Dos Santos, Heurelho Gomes, David Bentley,
Vedran Corluka, Cesar Sanchez, Roman Pavlyuchenko, Wilson
Palacios, Carlo Cudicini, John Bostock, Paul-Jose M’Poku Ebunge
and Mirko Ranieri whilst Jermain Defoe, Pascal Chimbonda and
Robbie Keane all re-signed. The total cost of
all of these players was £119.3m.

Additions 119,336

2010 – Taken from the 2009 annual report

“Since the year end we have boosted our squad with the following
signings: Peter Crouch, Sebastien Bassong, Niko Kranjcar, Kyle
Naughton, Kyle Walker and James Walker at a cost of £29.4m.”

This summer they've added Kaboul (£5m), Van der Vaart (£9m) and Sandro (£9m)

So that works out at £285m spent on buying players since June 2006, with all but the last £23m (from transfermarkt.co.uk) taken directly from the spurs annual reports.

I said in my original post “I'm sure they've made mistakes in some places (they haven't added Ireland's fee to the Milner fee for example)”. The official figures in the spurs accounts are about 10% lower than the stats on the link I use and a bit more than 25% higher than the figures on the link Paulie uses.

I’d much rather there was more transparency surrounding club finances and the transfer market. Until that happens, I’ll keep referencing the sites that I think have the best info and data. At the moment, transfermarkt.co.uk is the most comprehensive for player info and data that I know. If anyone knows a better one then please let me know but it isn't the one Paulie linked to.

[pauliewalnuts]

I’d much rather there was more transparency surrounding club finances and the transfer market. Until that happens, I’ll keep referencing the sites that I think have the best info and data. At the moment, transfermarkt.co.uk is the most comprehensive for player info and data that I know. If anyone knows a better one then please let me know but it isn't the one Paulie linked to.

It's much more accurate than the one you chose, with its 20m pound David Bentley.

Incidentally, Kaboul didn't join last summer, Sandro cost 6m and VdV was widely reported to have cost 8.

With your looseness with figures (ie 14m this summer, not 23m), it's really no wonder you get yourself so worked up about Spurs all the time.