Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Toronto Villa on June 11, 2024, 04:19:29 PM
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I suppose very sadly we may as well kick this thread off. Sad in that Doug is leaving. But I beliebe we are not signing the bloke who played at Leeds. McKinnie was excellent at Juventus recently and their fans are not happy he's leaving.
he's a tenacious CM. Hopefully he continues to develop under Unai
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Good luck Weston. No honestly, these are tears of happiness.
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He'll sell tickets on our US games in pre-season!
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Great article about him in the Luiz thread from ESPN. Judging him at Leeds is like judging Doug under the scouse one.
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Great article about him in the Luiz thread from ESPN. Judging him at Leeds is like judging Doug under the scouse one.
Fair point. Hope he does well, good luck Weston-Super-Player
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He'll sell tickets on our US games in pre-season!
Hopefully still find time to play a few minutes too.
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McKennie looks a decent player.
All action midfielder. Turned us down in the summer even though Juventus wanted rid of him. Hopefully we'll look more attractive in January, we can have the best owners in the world but hanging around the arse end of the PL does us no favours.
It took longer than we imagined.
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I still remember the USA v England group stage match in Qatar 2022.. McKennie played well. He was on the end of a few chances, drove the ball forward well, had some sharp/quick passes through the middle but also contributed out wide right, and broke up play nicely in the final third. I don't think he's necessarily as good as Dougie at this point in their careers, but he's a few inches taller, plays some tidy football and on the whole, I think he'll be able to do a job for us.
I just worry that losing a player of Doug's magnitude and expecting a Barkley/McKennie replacement to continue to push us upwards is a big risk. FFP is crooked.
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Okay, so what are the best pizza places in Birmingham for him? If he's used to good pizza in Turin, I don't think he's going to be happy with Pizza Express.
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Will he be cover for Kamara?
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Okay, so what are the best pizza places in Birmingham for him? If he's used to good pizza in Turin, I don't think he's going to be happy with Pizza Express.
Judging by the shit he puts on his pizza he'll be more than happy with Pizza Hut.
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I think initially that's where he will play. As versatile cover for Kamara then rotate.
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Whelmed. Weakened the team so hoping for a couple of bigger signings soon.
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Okay, so what are the best pizza places in Birmingham for him? If he's used to good pizza in Turin, I don't think he's going to be happy with Pizza Express.
Judging by the shit he puts on his pizza he'll be more than happy with Pizza Hut.
I like Pizza Hut. >:(
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Well obviously he will need to improve his English. Does he speak Spanish at all?
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Will he be cover for Kamara?
I doubt it. Seems more of an “all action” player rather than someone who needs to be positionally disciplined.
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Okay, so what are the best pizza places in Birmingham for him? If he's used to good pizza in Turin, I don't think he's going to be happy with Pizza Express.
Judging by the shit he puts on his pizza he'll be more than happy with Pizza Hut.
I like Pizza Hut. >:(
Ha! Why am I not surprised. I bet you go for the Create Your Own Masterpiece option and it no doubt includes pineapple and BBQ sauce.
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Okay, so what are the best pizza places in Birmingham for him? If he's used to good pizza in Turin, I don't think he's going to be happy with Pizza Express.
Judging by the shit he puts on his pizza he'll be more than happy with Pizza Hut.
I like Pizza Hut. >:(
Ha! Why am I not surprised. I bet you go for the Create Your Own Masterpiece option and it no doubt includes pineapple and BBQ sauce.
Nooo, I hate anything BBQ.
I don't mind pineapple on a pizza, but I generally go for chicken, mushroom, red onion, and peppers.
I've never had Weston's ranch dressing. Is it disgusting?
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Okay, so what are the best pizza places in Birmingham for him? If he's used to good pizza in Turin, I don't think he's going to be happy with Pizza Express.
Judging by the shit he puts on his pizza he'll be more than happy with Pizza Hut.
I like Pizza Hut. >:(
Ha! Why am I not surprised. I bet you go for the Create Your Own Masterpiece option and it no doubt includes pineapple and BBQ sauce.
Nooo, I hate anything BBQ.
I don't mind pineapple on a pizza, but I generally go for chicken, mushroom, red onion, and peppers.
I've never had Weston's ranch dressing. Is it disgusting?
I imagine it to be similar to the garlic/herb dip you get with a Domino's.
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Hopefully this Weston is as super as Mare.
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He’s got a lot to prove, hopefully he does.
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I no longer think he's a service station hotel. I'm upgrading him to sounding like a dangerously strong cider that it's OK to buy because it comes in a nice glass bottle rather than a green tin.
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Okay, so what are the best pizza places in Birmingham for him? If he's used to good pizza in Turin, I don't think he's going to be happy with Pizza Express.
Judging by the shit he puts on his pizza he'll be more than happy with Pizza Hut.
I like Pizza Hut. >:(
Ha! Why am I not surprised. I bet you go for the Create Your Own Masterpiece option and it no doubt includes pineapple and BBQ sauce.
Nooo, I hate anything BBQ.
I don't mind pineapple on a pizza, but I generally go for chicken, mushroom, red onion, and peppers.
I've never had Weston's ranch dressing. Is it disgusting?
How the fuck am I supposed to know, it's you that eats shit! ;)
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Okay, so what are the best pizza places in Birmingham for him? If he's used to good pizza in Turin, I don't think he's going to be happy with Pizza Express.
Peacer in Moseley is great. Alisha’s in Stirchley is also very good.
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I no longer think he's a service station hotel. I'm upgrading him to sounding like a dangerously strong cider that it's OK to buy because it comes in a nice glass bottle rather than a green tin.
He's an upmarket 'adult only' country hotel and spa.
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Obviously he's a shady tobacco giant.
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Welcome to Weston. Good piece of business .
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welcome fatty 😳😃
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Weston, feeling high, replied, "Yes, this is Street 66, step right in and take some licks."
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I no longer think he's a service station hotel. I'm upgrading him to sounding like a dangerously strong cider that it's OK to buy because it comes in a nice glass bottle rather than a green tin.
He's an upmarket 'adult only' country hotel and spa.
Ah yes - to be fair both featured on my wedding night at the Weston McKennie
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Okay, so what are the best pizza places in Birmingham for him? If he's used to good pizza in Turin, I don't think he's going to be happy with Pizza Express.
Peacer in Moseley is great. Alisha’s in Stirchley is also very good.
Is there no end to Ms.Lehmann's talents? 😍
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welcome fatty 😳😃
Jan Molby was a brilliant player.
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Good to see we have written him off already and he will appear in a thread coming soon about great scapegoats of our time.
It might be nice to spell his name correctly though 😜😜
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From my perspective I’m not writing him off, but he has a lot to prove. I hope he does.
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He’s been very good in Italy for Juventus. I’ll judge him on the more significant body of work and when he is under the guidance of Emery. I’m predicting he will be surprisingly good for us.
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Weston, feeling high, replied, "Yes, this is Street 66, step right in and take some licks."
What a tune that is.
Tough to come up with a terrace-friendly version, though.
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As his name in Junior I wonder what his Mama Used to Say.
One for the kids there.
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Go West, on McKennie go,
Go West, on McKennie now,
Go West, on McKennie score,
Come on, come on, come on, come on...
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Bless. Every new player we sign Drummond has a Pet Shop Boys song for him. You're wasted on here, Drummond. You just know it will be 'West McKennie na na na na'.
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Village People....
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I think initially that's where he will play. As versatile cover for Kamara then rotate.
I think that will be the case as well (if he does come of course).
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Village People....
I'll have to take your word on that one, Drummond. Keep them coming..
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Village People....
As long as six months in, it's not 'Why Him We Say?'
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Village People....
I'll have to take your word on that one, Drummond. Keep them coming..
Weston's Goals ...,
It's our Weston's town, a Villa world
The Holte End boys love Weston's goals
It's our Weston's town, a Villa world,
The Holte End boys love Weston's goals
Weston's goals
I've got my coat. See ya.
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Not good enough.
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Not good enough.
Bit harsh. I thought the lyrics were decent.
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Randomly reading up about everyone's new favourite premium strong cider / motorway services hotel / tobacco giant / small town accountants. From Wikipedia:
McKennie has been a fan of the Wizarding World since first reading a Harry Potter book at the age of 6. He has a Harry Potter lightning bolt tattoo and his signature goal celebration involves waving his hand as if using a wand to cast a spell.
Something to look forward to, I suppose ...
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BUT HAS HE GOT A PENIS?
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Thought he was terrible at Leeds and that was in the Championship.
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We definitely will not have a leg to stand on when people hate on Maddison's darts, we'll have a bloke who waves a wand!
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Thought he was terrible at Leeds and that was in the Championship.
Erm, you sure about that?
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To be fair, they were in the Championship by the time he left...
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He really was bad at Leeds. Hopefully has no bearing on how he does at Villa. Seems a very limited player though. I'm sure has a plan..
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I am always amazed how people remember, with great clarity, how players were shit when they played for other clubs, years ago.
It must be a gift.
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Randomly reading up about everyone's new favourite premium strong cider / motorway services hotel / tobacco giant / small town accountants. From Wikipedia:
McKennie has been a fan of the Wizarding World since first reading a Harry Potter book at the age of 6. He has a Harry Potter lightning bolt tattoo and his signature goal celebration involves waving his hand as if using a wand to cast a spell.
Something to look forward to, I suppose ...
Prefer Dougie doing VAMOS to be honest, Im going to miss that and him, top player for us
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I am always amazed how people remember, with great clarity, how players were shit when they played for other clubs, years ago.
It must be a gift.
It was only last year but I take your point.
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He's not as good as Douglas Luiz. Not by a long shot.
But at 6'1" & with a bit of pace, there will be a bit more physicality & mobility in the team.
Some Juventus fans are disappointed that he is leaving as he had double figure assists when he went back from his Leeds debacle.
I think that can be excused though as Leeds were a fucking basket case club at that time.
I suppose we have to look for the positives, but if we are trading Luiz for McKennie & Barkley, then that would be disappointing as fuck.
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He got dropped into the middle of an awful situation at Leeds. And none of us watched them often enough to point out with any clarity that he was truly terrible or was just part of a terrible set of players losing week after week. Since he returned to Juventus he’s been very good so I’ll take that as evidence of what he can do. Much like how I will view Ross Barkley rejoining us after an excellent season at Luton vs judging him on his short injury plagued spell with a lower mid table club a year after avoiding relegation by the skin of its bollocks in the Covid era.
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Just ask any Leeds fan on his time at the club will confirm he was very poor for them
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Bitter Leeds fans who had watched their side getting battered all season, pining for the return of bucket arse who caused a most of it. Not the most rational of observers.
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Did I read somewhere that he had four managers during his loan spell there?
Don't get me wrong, I don't think he is Dino Baggio or anything, but having multiple managers cant have been easy when trying to settle in a new country...
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He got dropped into the middle of an awful situation at Leeds. And none of us watched them often enough to point out with any clarity that he was truly terrible or was just part of a terrible set of players losing week after week. Since he returned to Juventus he’s been very good so I’ll take that as evidence of what he can do. Much like how I will view Ross Barkley rejoining us after an excellent season at Luton vs judging him on his short injury plagued spell with a lower mid table club a year after avoiding relegation by the skin of its bollocks in the Covid era.
Not sure about that TV, Barkley is a player towards the end of his peak years who has had one good season in fuck knows how many when it really was shit or bust for him and he was the star attraction in a shit team. Also, he's failed once here before, whatever you say about injuries etc. He just didn't look arsed when he knew he'd have to fight for his place.
McKennie is a young guy who's had one shit season in his first few years at a basket case relegated manager less outfit only there briefly and has done quite well playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world otherwise. Totally different scenario.
I'm not sure McKennie will succeed here but with the right deal against a player that wants a move i'm happy to see us give him a go. Barkley not so much !
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The debate isn't really about whether or not he was any good at Leeds, the debate is whether or not he's going to be good for us under Unai Emery.
He will have to be demanding of himself.
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He got dropped into the middle of an awful situation at Leeds. And none of us watched them often enough to point out with any clarity that he was truly terrible or was just part of a terrible set of players losing week after week. Since he returned to Juventus he’s been very good so I’ll take that as evidence of what he can do. Much like how I will view Ross Barkley rejoining us after an excellent season at Luton vs judging him on his short injury plagued spell with a lower mid table club a year after avoiding relegation by the skin of its bollocks in the Covid era.
I watched the US games at the World Cup and watched McKennie as best I could because we had been linked with him. He looked decent on the ball and had plenty of energy. Perhaps not a standout but he looked tidy.
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We should see him in this year's Copa America.
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Just ask any Leeds fan on his time at the club will confirm he was very poor for them
Veretout and Gueye were poor for us, and went on to be excellent players when put in an environment that wasn't complete bedlam.
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Bitter Leeds fans who had watched their side getting battered all season, pining for the return of bucket arse who caused a most of it. Not the most rational of observers.
I’ve not seen him play, but the photographs do show a fat fuck. To me, it looks like a terrible signing.
I trust Unai more than my opinion- so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.
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Bitter Leeds fans who had watched their side getting battered all season, pining for the return of bucket arse who caused a most of it. Not the most rational of observers.
I’ve not seen him play, but the photographs do show a fat fuck. To me, it looks like a terrible signing.
I trust Unai more than my opinion- so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.
People have said that about McGinn...
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I’d like to get down to being as fat as Weston McKinnie.
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Er, he's American.
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Er, he's American.
If that's a response to Dogtanian's Copa post.......this year's edition is being played in the USA and they (along with Canada and Mexico) are involved.
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Is it not an explanation for his being something of a salad dodger?
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Yeah i took it as a 'comes with the territory' type remark.
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Leeds won 5 league games after August. They were shit long before he arrived.
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Who was the last player we had that never bothered to try?
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Who was the last player we had that never bothered to try?
Danny Drinkwater......
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Who was the last player we had that never bothered to try?
Danny Drinkwater......
Excellent call. Our thoughts on his time at Villa are pretty much how Leeds fans look back on McKennie's time at Elland Road. Big difference is, we've moved on and they were relegated and still stewing in their hatred for him. This seems a more balanced opinion of his time at Leeds:
'Well look at the overall picture.
We have this Weston McKennie, who had fitness and diet problems at Juventus. They couldn't sort it out so they decided to ship him out with an option to buy. Regardless of his issues we decided, and I imagine that Victor Orta and Jesse Marsch were the driving forces, to sign him on loan.
In his time with us WM either couldn't or wouldn't get himself to sort out his fitness problems. On the pitch he never looked fit enough or up for the fight or like he was putting in a shift all of which meant that he was never likely to endear himself to the fans and win them over. They never did. For Leeds he looked a waste of space and was a huge misadventure.
Then there was the hapless Jesse Marsch. All theory and no trousers. Marsch had no clue of how to get WM up to speed and to get the best out of him. Marsch might have thought that the fact that WM was an American International would be an advantage to him added to the matter of that other American International Brendan Aaronson in his midfield. In reality it didn't matter one iota. Both of those players miserably failed to produce and Marsch no idea how to sort it out. Review that second season for us with Jesse in charge and the conclusion you come to is that JM was completely out of his depth. McKennie had zero chance to succeed.
It turned out that Leeds decided, not surprisingly, not to take up the option to buy. Now it seems WM has sorted himself out and is playing well in Italy. Good luck to him. It's all water under the bridge but he wouldn't want to be playing Championship football and he wouldn't be able to last a whole season in the Championship IMHO - it's simply too fast and furious for him.'
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Who was the last player we had that never bothered to try?
Danny Drinkwater......
Steve Hodge
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Is it not an explanation for his being something of a salad dodger?
Precisely.
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He's committed to bringing 'ranch' to Bodymoor Heath.
Black pudding, pork scratchings, and a good balti are gonna blow this young man's mind.
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He's committed to bringing 'ranch' to Bodymoor Heath.
Black pudding, pork scratchings, and a good balti are gonna blow this young man's mind.
And that's just his breakfast.
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Wait till the cockle man comes round to his local.
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The last thing we need to do to kick on is start buying players with huge question marks over them like one season in 10 Barkley and a player who's been accused of not trying at a former club. Recipe for disaster and sinking back in to mid table.
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The last thing we need to do to kick on is start buying players with huge question marks over them like one season in 10 Barkley and a player who's been accused of not trying at a former club. Recipe for disaster and sinking back in to mid table.
So much pessimissim and nothing has even happened yet.
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The last thing we need to do to kick on is start buying players with huge question marks over them like one season in 10 Barkley and a player who's been accused of not trying at a former club. Recipe for disaster and sinking back in to mid table.
calm down a bit.
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The last thing we need to do to kick on is start buying players with huge question marks over them like one season in 10 Barkley and a player who's been accused of not trying at a former club. Recipe for disaster and sinking back in to mid table.
So much pessimissim and nothing has even happened yet.
It's not rocket science, signing dodgy players doesn't improve you. I don't need to watch the first 15 games of Barkley meandering around the pitch to know that. If we don't buy them, great. If we do, mistake.
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The last thing we need to do to kick on is start buying players with huge question marks over them like one season in 10 Barkley and a player who's been accused of not trying at a former club. Recipe for disaster and sinking back in to mid table.
So much pessimissim and nothing has even happened yet.
It's not rocket science, signing dodgy players doesn't improve you. I don't need to watch the first 15 games of Barkley meandering around the pitch to know that. If we don't buy them, great. If we do, mistake.
The window does not close until the end of August and you're panicking and suggesting we might slide down to mid table. Its all a bit silly really.
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The last thing we need to do to kick on is start buying players with huge question marks over them like one season in 10 Barkley and a player who's been accused of not trying at a former club. Recipe for disaster and sinking back in to mid table.
So much pessimissim and nothing has even happened yet.
It's not rocket science, signing dodgy players doesn't improve you. I don't need to watch the first 15 games of Barkley meandering around the pitch to know that. If we don't buy them, great. If we do, mistake.
How many times have you watched McKennie play?
Let’s not just take the received opinion of idiot Leeds fans who’s club were in a death spiral when Weston showed up. He has a good engine, isn’t afraid of making a tackle like Doug and can play more positions. Living in the states and working with a technical partner of US Soccer, I would say his only worrying trait is his second touch. Can be Zaniolo-esque at times with it.. but the work rate stuff and not caring about football is just nonsense.
If Unai can get a tune out of him, which I’m sure he can (if the deal goes through), then we have nothing to worry about. All this projection, fat jokes etc. is just plain stupid.
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He’s not fat. It’s stupid to even suggest he is.
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He’s not fat. It’s stupid to even suggest he is.
He's just got big bones. 84kgs of them to be exact.
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He’s not fat. It’s stupid to even suggest he is.
He's just got big bones. 84kgs of them to be exact.
6ft 185lbs, what’s wrong with that..?!
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I’d like to get down to being as fat as Weston McKinnie.
He's the same weight as me, but is 4 inches shorter, the fat bastard.
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I’d like to get down to being as fat as Weston McKinnie.
He's the same weight as me, but is 4 inches shorter, the fat bastard.
Tyrone Mings is 1.96m and 77kgs, the skinny bastard.
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I asked earlier in the thread whether he had a penis. I would now also like to know, if he has, when was the last time he saw it?
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He's got one, and judging by how thirsty he was at Leeds, I reckon it may be a significant amount of his weight.
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He's got one, and judging by how thirsty he was at Leeds, I reckon it may be a significant amount of his weight.
He's no Frank Sinatra.
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He's got one, and judging by how thirsty he was at Leeds, I reckon it may be a significant amount of his weight.
He's no Frank Sinatra.
I'll ask him for a pic and then see if I can get in touch with Ava on the otherside.
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Does anybody know the dates of Big Mac's games for the US this summer?
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Does anybody know the dates of Big Mac's games for the US this summer?
June 23rd vs Bolivia (Dallas)
June 27th vs Panama (Atlanta)
July 1st vs Uruguay (Kansas City)
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He’s not fat. It’s stupid to even suggest he is.
He's just got big bones. 84kgs of them to be exact.
I feel better about myself, I just weighed in at 84kgs!
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I can see Unai making him a better player.
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He’s not fat. It’s stupid to even suggest he is.
He's just got big bones. 84kgs of them to be exact.
I feel better about myself, I just weighed in at 84kgs!
This is getting all very fat club chat 😃
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Anyone watching US v Brazil? McKennie looking the part so far, don’t fret!
Edit: Doug just came on, but has had little effect on the game.
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So while nobody is looking we will quickly move on from what appeared to be from the various football media reports a certain deal for McKinnie to welcoming Enzo Barrenechea in the next few days. Interesting prospect and improving it appears from his recent loan spell at Frosinone.
Posted this in the transfer thread but may as well put here with some opinion about him.
The football nerds are suggesting we are getting an excellent player is Enzo Barrenechea
https://x.com/htomufc/status/1766495262346817862?s=46
https://x.com/danieiscouting/status/1803531751580459014?s=46
https://x.com/snakefpl/status/1803534452078850448?s=46
He certainly looks a tidy young player
https://x.com/juvefcdotcom/status/1803548282687266937?s=46
https://x.com/keslerszn/status/1803487510699332011?s=46
Modify message
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Very eco-friendly, TV. Well done.
I like the sound of this guy more. Younger, so plenty of room for improvement under Emery, seems a better fit as a Kamara replacement, speaks Spanish and has a much more exciting-sounding name.
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He can't be valued the same as McKennie though surely.
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He looks a better fit for us than McKennie!
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He can't be valued the same as McKennie though surely.
🇪🇺5 million difference.
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Figured may as well recycle versus chopping down a new tree. I’m all for adding some Argentinian content to the Villa squad. The current ones certainly haven’t let us down. Once July 1st hits and we get the FFP/PSR situation sorted I reckon we have a couple of proper signings left in us. And we still need to shift the Chambers, Archer, Donck, one of the left backs.
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He looks a better fit for us than McKennie!
Yeah, I'm expecting the Argentine Rodri™ to do well for us.
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He was born in Villa María, so he'll feel right at home immediately. I'll even throw in a bottle of Sauvignon Blanc to seal the deal.
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Sounds like a good fit to cover for Kamara. https://x.com/Ben_Mattinson_/status/1733191602741326281
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So we get a little bit more money, and are getting someone who’s barely played. Hope he has some promise, because seems a bit weak bearing in my the player we are losing in this.
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So we get a little bit more money, and are getting someone who’s barely played. Hope he has some promise, because seems a bit weak bearing in my the player we are losing in this.
Sorry but Luiz is not known for his physicality, in fact, he is far too lightweight to be the DCM that we needed in the absence of Bouba Kamara. Hence why I’m not that fussed about him going. Great player, yes, irreplaceable, no way.
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We desperately need a DCM as Kamara won't be back (fully fit) until new year I reckon so fairly happy with this.
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Seems a bit an FFP panic swap shop. Hope he develops into a good player.
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Well, if those Twitter comments are anything to go by, I think we ought to be pretty chuffed with ourselves. I love Dougie a lot, but Samuel Iling-Junior + Enzo Barrenechea + £25m seems a decent enough deal to me, at.least based on what I've read on here.
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Barrenechea from all the stats, scouting reports etc, looks like he's got massively higher potential than McKennie. Solves a problem we have potentially, and could end up being hugely valuable. Wouldn't be shocked if he wasn't the first one we asked for and the answer was no, then McKennie started fecking about and Juve caved
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I’m confused.
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So we get a little bit more money, and are getting someone who’s barely played. Hope he has some promise, because seems a bit weak bearing in my the player we are losing in this.
Sorry but Luiz is not known for his physicality, in fact, he is far too lightweight to be the DCM that we needed in the absence of Bouba Kamara. Hence why I’m not that fussed about him going. Great player, yes, irreplaceable, no way.
That might be valid if Doug’s main function was to be Kamara’s back-up.
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Barrenechea from all the stats, scouting reports etc, looks like he's got massively higher potential than McKennie. Solves a problem we have potentially, and could end up being hugely valuable. Wouldn't be shocked if he wasn't the first one we asked for and the answer was no, then McKennie started fecking about and Juve caved
Really? Like I say I hope he’s brilliant, but McKennie was starting for Juventus last year and is an established international. Enzo appears to have played one senior season in a relegated team and the difference in value is €5m. It doesn’t on the face of it seem that great, when you add in we’re losing one of the best midfielders in the league when he’s in his right role.
Hope Enzo is excellent and this all works out, but doesn’t on the face of it look brilliant for us as a deal.
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He looks more like an Unai signing than Fat Wes.
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Barrenechea from all the stats, scouting reports etc, looks like he's got massively higher potential than McKennie. Solves a problem we have potentially, and could end up being hugely valuable. Wouldn't be shocked if he wasn't the first one we asked for and the answer was no, then McKennie started fecking about and Juve caved
Really? Like I say I hope he’s brilliant, but McKennie was starting for Juventus last year and is an established international. Enzo appears to have played one senior season in a relegated team and the difference in value is €5m. It doesn’t on the face of it seem that great, when you add in we’re losing one of the best midfielders in the league when he’s in his right role.
Hope Enzo is excellent and this all works out, but doesn’t on the face of it look brilliant for us as a deal.
I think the same was said of the Rogers acquisition ...
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Pathetically, the rumour that Brighton want him significantly alters my view of the deal.
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I’m confused.
Your posts are getting shorter and shorter. Is this the shortest yet?
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Barrenechea from all the stats, scouting reports etc, looks like he's got massively higher potential than McKennie. Solves a problem we have potentially, and could end up being hugely valuable. Wouldn't be shocked if he wasn't the first one we asked for and the answer was no, then McKennie started fecking about and Juve caved
Really? Like I say I hope he’s brilliant, but McKennie was starting for Juventus last year and is an established international. Enzo appears to have played one senior season in a relegated team and the difference in value is €5m. It doesn’t on the face of it seem that great, when you add in we’re losing one of the best midfielders in the league when he’s in his right role.
Hope Enzo is excellent and this all works out, but doesn’t on the face of it look brilliant for us as a deal.
Yeah, but how would we have described Morgan Rogers the week before he signed? And how would we now?
I generally have a lot of faith in Emery for buying players who are just starting to break in to the first team of whoever they're playing for. The man's football obsessed, it wouldn't at all surprise me - as ozzjim mentioned - if we'd asked about this guy first. He just strikes me as an Emery signing ... I imagine him sitting at home, watching Frosinone vs Udinese so that he can cheer on big Keinan from the sidelines ... then he notices Barrenechea make a pass or something. Pauses the telly, phones Monchi, tells him to dig up everything he can about the player ... then puts it back on to enjoy the rest of the game. By full time, Monchi's emailed over videos of every single one of Enzo's games for the past 5 seasons, edited in to a 3hr long reel. Emery's spent the whole night watching it, then phoned up Monchi and said "get it done".
That's how I imagine he works.
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I reckon if you put a Tim showreel together it would probably be just as impressive as this lad and Tim is 2 years younger.
But yes Monty, Brighton wanting him does help.
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Barrenechea from all the stats, scouting reports etc, looks like he's got massively higher potential than McKennie. Solves a problem we have potentially, and could end up being hugely valuable. Wouldn't be shocked if he wasn't the first one we asked for and the answer was no, then McKennie started fecking about and Juve caved
Really? Like I say I hope he’s brilliant, but McKennie was starting for Juventus last year and is an established international. Enzo appears to have played one senior season in a relegated team and the difference in value is €5m. It doesn’t on the face of it seem that great, when you add in we’re losing one of the best midfielders in the league when he’s in his right role.
Hope Enzo is excellent and this all works out, but doesn’t on the face of it look brilliant for us as a deal.
Yeah, but how would we have described Morgan Rogers the week before he signed? And how would we now?
I generally have a lot of faith in Emery for buying players who are just starting to break in to the first team of whoever they're playing for. The man's football obsessed, it wouldn't at all surprise me - as ozzjim mentioned - if we'd asked about this guy first. He just strikes me as an Emery signing ... I imagine him sitting at home, watching Frosinone vs Udinese so that he can cheer on big Keinan from the sidelines ... then he notices Barrenechea make a pass or something. Pauses the telly, phones Monchi, tells him to dig up everything he can about the player ... then puts it back on to enjoy the rest of the game. By full time, Monchi's emailed over videos of every single one of Enzo's games for the past 5 seasons, edited in to a 3hr long reel. Emery's spent the whole night watching it, then phoned up Monchi and said "get it done".
That's how I imagine he works.
I think you're underestimating Unai's requirements for a player. No mention of staying power at a Toby Carvery.
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Pathetically, the rumour that Brighton want him significantly alters my view of the deal.
Scary isn't it.
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It'll be more scary if he chooses them over us.
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Barrenechea from all the stats, scouting reports etc, looks like he's got massively higher potential than McKennie. Solves a problem we have potentially, and could end up being hugely valuable. Wouldn't be shocked if he wasn't the first one we asked for and the answer was no, then McKennie started fecking about and Juve caved
Really? Like I say I hope he’s brilliant, but McKennie was starting for Juventus last year and is an established international. Enzo appears to have played one senior season in a relegated team and the difference in value is €5m. It doesn’t on the face of it seem that great, when you add in we’re losing one of the best midfielders in the league when he’s in his right role.
Hope Enzo is excellent and this all works out, but doesn’t on the face of it look brilliant for us as a deal.
We can't look at it as Enzo for Luiz though, it's about the depth and balance of the squad. Luiz is world class but as 8s we also have Tielemans, McGinn and probably JJ. As 6s we have an injured Kamara, a nearly sold Tim and a clearly unwanted Dendoncker. If we're bringing in Barkley and this lad I think we look better set to cope without Kamara for the first half of the season and that will probably see us get better results.
On top of that we get a very promising young winger who gives us an important alternative on the left and money to put towards strengthening elsewhere.
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Agreed Paul_e. But I don't think I'd class Luiz as world class - he's in the bracket just below I reckon.
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World Class is always a subjective definition. But in my opinion, Luiz was one of the best midfielders in the PL (for most of) last season and that certainly has to put him in the conversation. Other than Rodri and Rice, were there any other better performers?
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No there weren't, up until Christmas. Boxing Day was the first game I noticed his level drop off in that awful 2nd half, and I don't think he got those levels back after that. I love him and yes I'd like him to stay, but he doesn't want to, so we are doing the best we can from the situation we find ourselves in.
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World Class is always a subjective definition. But in my opinion, Luiz was one of the best midfielders in the PL (for most of) last season and that certainly has to put him in the conversation. Other than Rodri and Rice, were there any other better performers?
Put another way, I'd swap Luiz for Rodri (in a heartbeat) or Rice.
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I cant say that I know too much about Enzo Barrenechea other than what I have read, & granted people say he has potential & would cover the CDM gap we currently have, but if the rumours are to be believed, we actually wanted Soule & Juventus told us "no".
That to me, should have been the time we tell them the deal was off & made demands that we wanted more.
In a more realistic world, we get Iling-Junior, Soule AND Barrenechea for a player of Douglas Luiz calibre, to a club that has fuck all money to afford a player of Douglas Luiz calibre.
All the young players we are linked to have shown a lot of promise (apparently for Barrenechea), but for the Premier League, they have shown nothing as of yet, so I don't see why we should be paying premium for them while losing an actual world class talent.
Whether this Argentinian kid is any good, only time will tell.
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That’s fair enough, but they’re very different players. A better comparison would be swapping Kamara for either of those.
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World Class is always a subjective definition. But in my opinion, Luiz was one of the best midfielders in the PL (for most of) last season and that certainly has to put him in the conversation. Other than Rodri and Rice, were there any other better performers?
Put another way, I'd swap Luiz for Rodri (in a heartbeat) or Rice.
How I define world class (and I agree it's subjective and other people will view it differently) is if you could drop a player into almost any team in the world and they'd either improve them or at least look as good as who they replaced.
For me there are very few teams that wouldn't look better with prime Luiz in their midfield, he needs to be more consistent but he also needs to be played in his best role consistently as well.
Either way the point remains that a direct replacement of the same quality who could come in and do the job immediately is highly unlikely so our focus is (and had to be) improving the overall quality of the squad. How successful that will be is hard to judge until we're a litle way inot the season and start seeing the squad depth get tested.
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I reckon if you put a Tim showreel together it would probably be just as impressive as this lad and Tim is 2 years younger.
But yes Monty, Brighton wanting him does help.
I don't ever watch showreels, there is no point. Once you're playing at this level if someone can't snip together 3 minutes worth of you doing decent passes or interceptions etc then you really aren't good enough.
I also agree on Brighton wanting him making me a bit more favourable to the deal.
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My slight concern with this kid is that when hasn’t broken through properly yet, and at 23 was still deemed surplus to requirements for first team action at Juventus. I know players develop at different rates, and it also has to do with Juve’s squad depth that maybe they couldn’t accommodate him. Then of course if he was a starter or squad player he’d be worth more and might not be part of this deal. Hopefully he’s not really a prospect and closer to challenging for a first team spot much like Rodgers did quickly.
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Tbf, I think players in the CDM position tend to develop a little later due to the complexities of the position.
Especially if you are then expected to either drive forward with the ball or to pass it aggressively forward, while shielding the ball from pressing, like players who play for Emery are expected to do.
Thats not to say I know anything of Barrenechea other than what I have read, so he may just not be very good, & obviously, not all players develop at the same rate, but I do strongly believe in the above.
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Statistically he's just had a season in Serie A that was very similar to that of Kamara for us in 22/23. Defensively solid, mostly tidy in possession but with a couple of silly mistakes, all in a team that was clearly out of their depth.
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Hmm, I'm firmly on the same page, we are giving up a topdrawer player, the finished item, for two who 'might' come good, and not enough money to notice.
As an aside, I've been to Frosinone's ground, its about the same size as Solihull Borough.
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Statistically he's just had a season in Serie A that was very similar to that of Kamara for us in 22/23. Defensively solid, mostly tidy in possession but with a couple of silly mistakes, all in a team that was clearly out of their depth.
That’s positive, but a couple of things. When we signed Kamara it was seen as a real coup, his talent was known. Also I suspect it’s easier to do that role in Serie A than the PL.
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I cant say that I know too much about Enzo Barrenechea other than what I have read, & granted people say he has potential & would cover the CDM gap we currently have, but if the rumours are to be believed, we actually wanted Soule & Juventus told us "no".
That to me, should have been the time we tell them the deal was off & made demands that we wanted more.
In a more realistic world, we get Iling-Junior, Soule AND Barrenechea for a player of Douglas Luiz calibre, to a club that has fuck all money to afford a player of Douglas Luiz calibre.
All the young players we are linked to have shown a lot of promise (apparently for Barrenechea), but for the Premier League, they have shown nothing as of yet, so I don't see why we should be paying premium for them while losing an actual world class talent.
Whether this Argentinian kid is any good, only time will tell.
It seems we are under pressure to book a chunk of income in by the end of June while Luiz has reportedly turned-down a new contract offer in the past six months and CL qualification doesn't seem to have changed his mind. Juve can't afford to buy him outright, hence the part player-exchange which we're clearly open to take a number of their squad. Emery's record in improving players is exceptional so all these things considered, it's probably the best we can do in the situation.
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Statistically he's just had a season in Serie A that was very similar to that of Kamara for us in 22/23. Defensively solid, mostly tidy in possession but with a couple of silly mistakes, all in a team that was clearly out of their depth.
That’s positive, but a couple of things. When we signed Kamara it was seen as a real coup, his talent was known. Also I suspect it’s easier to do that role in Serie A than the PL.
That's true here as well though, there are plenty of people saying we're getting a bit of an unpolished gem here. Being the DM in a team that's comparable to Luton isn't easy in any league.
I'm not saying he's gonig to come in and be exceptional and we won't miss Luiz at all but rather that, looking at it purely on statistics and very limited highlights, I can see why we'd be happy to bring him in, he has everything you'd want in a player to cover for/compete with Kamara.
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I think we will sign a proper proven quality replacement for Luiz after July 1. All of this is being done a record pace to get under some sort of bullshit target by June 30. We are making all kinds of moves while the sides we are directly competing against again for CL spots have to do anything and can seemingly buy who they want.
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I think we will sign a proper proven quality replacement for Luiz after July 1. All of this is being done a record pace to get under some sort of bullshit target by June 30. We are making all kinds of moves while the sides we are directly competing against again for CL spots have to do anything and can seemingly buy who they want.
As you wrote that I said the same thing on the transfers thread
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I cant say that I know too much about Enzo Barrenechea other than what I have read, & granted people say he has potential & would cover the CDM gap we currently have, but if the rumours are to be believed, we actually wanted Soule & Juventus told us "no".
That to me, should have been the time we tell them the deal was off & made demands that we wanted more.
In a more realistic world, we get Iling-Junior, Soule AND Barrenechea for a player of Douglas Luiz calibre, to a club that has fuck all money to afford a player of Douglas Luiz calibre.
All the young players we are linked to have shown a lot of promise (apparently for Barrenechea), but for the Premier League, they have shown nothing as of yet, so I don't see why we should be paying premium for them while losing an actual world class talent.
Whether this Argentinian kid is any good, only time will tell.
It seems we are under pressure to book a chunk of income in by the end of June while Luiz has reportedly turned-down a new contract offer in the past six months and CL qualification doesn't seem to have changed his mind. Juve can't afford to buy him outright, hence the part player-exchange which we're clearly open to take a number of their squad. Emery's record in improving players is exceptional so all these things considered, it's probably the best we can do in the situation.
I get the reasoning, but I don't agree 100% with the bolded bit.
I think we are in a strong negotiating position because Juventus could not have afforded a player like Douglas Luiz from a Premier League club.
Most comments from our fans took the piss out of them when this was first reported due to the above.
Granted, we have our own reasons for selling, but I think we could play hardball with them & demand a bit more.
I just don't see why we have to make all of the concessions. After Juventus fucked around McKennie & his leaving finances, they should be falling over backwards to make this deal work...
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Our reasons for selling is in large part because Luiz didn’t want to sign a new deal with us. In that case let’s get the best deal we can from a club that showed an interest in buying him. As much as we valued him, that apparently wasn’t shared by top clubs in Europe. He was constantly linked to Arsenal and nothing came of that. He apparently wanted Barcelona and they didn’t make a move for him. So we have a deal with Juventus which satisfies both sides and helps offset some of our PSR concerns.
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I don't really want to go down the road of "if Emery and Monchi think the players are OK, it's fine by me" but, if Emery and Monchi think the players are OK, it's fine by me.
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Wasn’t there an Enzo in the series Gomorrah?
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I reckon if you put a Tim showreel together it would probably be just as impressive as this lad and Tim is 2 years younger.
But yes Monty, Brighton wanting him does help.
I don't ever watch showreels, there is no point. Once you're playing at this level if someone can't snip together 3 minutes worth of you doing decent passes or interceptions etc then you really aren't good enough.
I also agree on Brighton wanting him making me a bit more favourable to the deal.
Even my showreel would look great.
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I don't really want to go down the road of "if Emery and Monchi think the players are OK, it's fine by me" but, if Emery and Monchi think the players are OK, it's fine by me.
If Emery and Monchi bought back Drinkwater it’s fine with me…
Too far?
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Wasn’t there an Enzo in the series Gomorrah?
Yeah, the kid who was part of the Napoli "ultras".
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I reckon if you put a Tim showreel together it would probably be just as impressive as this lad and Tim is 2 years younger.
But yes Monty, Brighton wanting him does help.
I don't ever watch showreels, there is no point. Once you're playing at this level if someone can't snip together 3 minutes worth of you doing decent passes or interceptions etc then you really aren't good enough.
I also agree on Brighton wanting him making me a bit more favourable to the deal.
Even my showreel would look great.
I don’t bother either. I get bored before the advert has finished.
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I don't really want to go down the road of "if Emery and Monchi think the players are OK, it's fine by me" but, if Emery and Monchi think the players are OK, it's fine by me.
If Emery and Monchi bought back Drinkwater it’s fine with me…
Too far?
Way, waaaaaaaay too far. Emery might be a genius, but he's not Harry Fucking Potter!
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BUT DOES HE HAVE A PENIS?
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BUT DOES HE HAVE A PENIS?
Is this about Emery, Drinkwater or Harry Potter?
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BUT DOES HE HAVE A PENIS?
Is this about Emery, Drinkwater or Harry Potter?
I just need to know which toilets they're all using.
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Is it worth us getting £5m - £10m less for Dougie from Juventus than selling him to an English club? Just wondering if we are keeping Arsenal or another Prem League club at bay by doing a Daniel Levy on it.
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Oh no not another "nearly signed" thread. Barrenechea (Bar en e cha) an Argentinian defensive midfielder is welcomed.
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We'd have still got a big fee next summer, probably more following him playing well in the CL and by then the likes of Man U, Man City and Chelsea would probably have been back in the market.
Rice had 12 months on his contract and West Ham did ok.
We've sold him for £20m and a packet of fags because of PSR.
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Oh no not another "nearly signed" thread. Barrenechea (Bar en e cha) an Argentinian defensive midfielder is welcomed.
It is a recycled "nearly signed" so it is not another one.
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I am sure this kid if given the choice would sign for the club that has one of the worlds greatest Goalkeepers and greatest Argentinian in Emi (big one) and i am sure he would work well with Emi (the little one)
Must admit that i know nothing about him but others think he is a very good player.
Would hope we are going to bring in a couple with experience as well just to supplement these youngsters
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I’m not sure anyone (in terms of fans) can think/know he’s a very good player. People might hope, but I suspect until a day ago pretty much no one had been paying close attention to him. That’s not a criticism, but this one seems fully out of the blue.
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I’m not sure anyone (in terms of fans) can think/know he’s a very good player. People might hope, but I suspect until a day ago pretty much no one had been paying close attention to him. That’s not a criticism, but this one seems fully out of the blue.
Which is why I've fallen back on stats for him and I like what I see in them.
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BUT DOES HE HAVE A PENIS?
McKennie? I doubt he can see it with his cream bun habit.
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I’m not sure anyone (in terms of fans) can think/know he’s a very good player. People might hope, but I suspect until a day ago pretty much no one had been paying close attention to him. That’s not a criticism, but this one seems fully out of the blue.
The lads from Lanchester Poly AI course are on holiday and they would know everything about him.
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The second coming of Rijkaard according to the Frosinone manager.
That would be nice.
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The second coming of Rijkaard according to the Frosinone manager.
He spits on Germans?
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The second coming of Rijkaard according to the Frosinone manager.
He spits on Germans?
He'll do for me Clive!
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The second coming of Rijkaard according to the Frosinone manager.
He never sweats?
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The second coming of Rijkaard according to the Frosinone manager.
He spits on Germans?
He looks like Chris Kamara?
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I duuno Jeff, does he?
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I duuno Jeff, does he?
8);D
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The second coming of Rijkaard according to the Frosinone manager.
He spits on Germans?
Wasn’t that Madame Edith’s mother?
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'I have three Fallen Maddonnas, with six big boobies, only one of them is real'
'What, just one big boobie?'
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Do you not see that if you kill him with the pill from the till by making with it the drug in the jug, then you need not light the candle with the handle on the gateau from the chateau!
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I wonder whether he'll get called up to Argentina's Olympics squad.
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Do you not see that if you kill him with the pill from the till by making with it the drug in the jug, then you need not light the candle with the handle on the gateau from the chateau!
Far more superior version.
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Do you not see that if you kill him with the pill from the till by making with it the drug in the jug, then you need not light the candle with the handle on the gateau from the chateau!
Far more superior version.
Wow, thank you for that. All those years I thought it was a bit of comic genius and it was just a rip-off.
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^^
That's brilliant
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Yeah good that, its no Allo, Allo mind.
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(https://i.ibb.co/1LP193y/agree.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1LP193y)
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It’s being reported that Juve are insisting on a sell on clause of 70% for the 2 numpties that they have scrabbled around looking to get rid of
We should tell them to go fuck themselves! If they want Douglas that much they should pay the going rate for him. It’s like you wanting a couple of prime fillet steaks from the really nice restaurant, but you ask if they’re willing to take a pack of Iceland budget burgers in part exchange.
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No chance we’d accept that.
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Would rather take four point deduction than give away our best player while mortgaging away any potential profit we might make further on, all while helping those match-fixing scum.
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10% not 70%. Not great but.... a lot less shit.
https://x.com/86_longo/status/1804228428104601946?t=hv8P5g9KzZ7ArzgCrYxAqQ&s=08
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Would rather take four point deduction than give away our best player while mortgaging away any potential profit we might make further on, all while helping those match-fixing scum.
Yeah I mean there’s just no way we’d accept those terms.
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The 70% figure came from journalist I linked to above, and he's confirmed it was a mistake and he meant 10% now.
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10% is fine, i'd imagine we have similar in a lot of contracts of young players we sell.
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10% is fine and very standard.
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Hasn't had it easy, hope he does well for us. https://x.com/AVFC_espanol/status/1804222454283284598
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Hasn't had it easy, hope he does well for us. https://x.com/AVFC_espanol/status/1804222454283284598
Aww bless him. He was a good boy. As a father, I love that. One of those stories, like Lukaku’s and the Williams’ brothers, that gets you in the feels.
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Yeah good that, its no Allo, Allo mind.
Or Peppa Pig.
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It’s being reported that Juve are insisting on a sell on clause of 70% for the 2 numpties that they have scrabbled around looking to get rid of
We should tell them to go fuck themselves! If they want Douglas that much they should pay the going rate for him. It’s like you wanting a couple of prime fillet steaks from the really nice restaurant, but you ask if they’re willing to take a pack of Iceland budget burgers in part exchange.
As much as i smiled a bit at your analogy there, on a serious note it appears to just be 10% on one of them and further to that and more importantly have you actually seen either of them play? At all?
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This is from Golazo, a Twitter page and website that’s run by a Villa fan who follows Argentine football. Each season they do a list of 50 players to look out for.
When Enzo Barrenechea departed Newell’s Old Boys for Europe in 2019 it was a transfer that largely went under the radar. The young midfielder hadn’t yet made his senior debut and a switch to Swiss club Sion was hardly likely to attract much attention. Fast forward to 2023 and the 22-year-old is a regular in Serie A with Frosinone, showcasing the level of talent which Juventus scouts had seen all those years prior. From his deep lying position in the midfield, Barrenechea is a decent ball winner but it’s in possession where his technical quality shines through – good under pressure and an excellent passer.
https://golazoargentino.com/2023/12/28/golazo-50-argentinas-best-young-players-2023-50-31/
https://x.com/golazoargentino/status/1804253692616388879?s=46
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This guy fucking loves him.
And if you can get through the accent & his weird flitting eyes, he backs up a fair bit of his opinion with some stats too.
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This guy fucking loves him.
And if you can get through the accent & his weird flitting eyes, he backs up a fair bit of his opinion with some stats too.
Does that make the deal seem any less shit for you?
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He's going to be an important signing.
Interesting sidenote is that he's best friends with Matías Soulé, who looks class and it's reported that he's one that we wanted included in the deal but Juve value him at 40m euro's. We might go back for him next month.
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Does that make the deal seem any less shit for you?
It gives me a little comfort that the kid has something about him.
But it doesn't change my view that we are being short-changed, no.
Two youngsters & £25M isn't enough for a player of Douglas Luiz calibre.
And don't get me wrong, I am very excited about the Iling-Junior transfer.
I like him a lot & am over the moon that we are targeting some of the world's best young prospects like him.
And what I am reading & watching on YouTube, Barrenechea certainly has more about him than that Dobbin kid, (albeit I think he will get a lot of yellow cards in the Prem), but both young players from Juventus are still gambles for Villa, which means that we are taking all of the risk, still have to replace Douglas Luiz (hopefully with Guendouzi), while Juventus get a ready made world class talent, who they usually wouldn't be able to afford.
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Tough to know who gets the better side if the deal until we’ve had a season or two with the new young players. If one makes it then they’ll easily double their value whereas Doug probably had another £20m until his ceiling price I think.
A loan for Dobbin should suit all parties as i don’t think he will play enough with Iling jnr already first reserve for positions on the left,
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I was looking for an old post yesterday and I found one from December where we'd been linked with Iling Jr for January. Obviously didn't happen but it makes you wonder if he was the player we wanted all along anyway and McKennie was just being used to bulk up the deal? Would mean Barrenchea and a bit more cash still leaves us with the player we wanted and a potentially great second player.
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Does that make the deal seem any less shit for you?
It gives me a little comfort that the kid has something about him.
But it doesn't change my view that we are being short-changed, no.
Two youngsters & £25M isn't enough for a player of Douglas Luiz calibre.
And don't get me wrong, I am very excited about the Iling-Junior transfer.
I like him a lot & am over the moon that we are targeting some of the world's best young prospects like him.
And what I am reading & watching on YouTube, Barrenechea certainly has more about him than that Dobbin kid, (albeit I think he will get a lot of yellow cards in the Prem), but both young players from Juventus are still gambles for Villa, which means that we are taking all of the risk, still have to replace Douglas Luiz (hopefully with Guendouzi), while Juventus get a ready made world class talent, who they usually wouldn't be able to afford.
What makes you think that Enzo is Luiz's replacement and not the exact sort of profile to understudy for Kamara?
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He's going to be an important signing.
Interesting sidenote is that he's best friends with Matías Soulé, who looks class and it's reported that he's one that we wanted included in the deal but Juve value him at 40m euro's. We might go back for him next month.
Summer 2025 for Soule I reckon.
Buendia will only have one year left on his deal at that point.
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The transfer window doesn’t shut for two months. We had to do a load of work by June 30th and there is still 8 days left in this month to that done. There is no reason to believe Enzo is a replacement for Luiz. We are going to make some major signings after July 1.
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The transfer window doesn’t shut for two months. We had to do a load of work by June 30th and there is still 8 days left in this month to that done. There is no reason to believe Enzo is a replacement for Luiz. We are going to make some major signings after July 1.
Does that make the deal seem any less shit for you?
It gives me a little comfort that the kid has something about him.
But it doesn't change my view that we are being short-changed, no.
Two youngsters & £25M isn't enough for a player of Douglas Luiz calibre.
And don't get me wrong, I am very excited about the Iling-Junior transfer.
I like him a lot & am over the moon that we are targeting some of the world's best young prospects like him.
And what I am reading & watching on YouTube, Barrenechea certainly has more about him than that Dobbin kid, (albeit I think he will get a lot of yellow cards in the Prem), but both young players from Juventus are still gambles for Villa, which means that we are taking all of the risk, still have to replace Douglas Luiz (hopefully with Guendouzi), while Juventus get a ready made world class talent, who they usually wouldn't be able to afford.
What makes you think that Enzo is Luiz's replacement and not the exact sort of profile to understudy for Kamara?
I don't.
Which is why I said I want us to sign Guendouzi to replace Douglas Luiz in the post you quoted.
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So how are we being short changed? A player wants to go, it happens. We're hoovering up a prospect whose profile would suit filling in for Kamara. We're also adding a lightening fast prospect who can fill in at left back or left wing. Plus it allows us to comply with PSR, plus it allows us to go and spend money on a Luiz replacement. It looks like a very good deal from our side of the fence.
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I disagree.
Which is why I have made several posts explaining why.
Im not repeating myself again, especially when again, it is in the post you quoted.
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I'm a bit happier with Enzo Barracuda than with Weston, McKennie & Co., as it seems like Juve didn't actually want to include him in the deal and might have been forced into it a bit.
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I disagree.
Which is why I have made several posts explaining why.
Im not repeating myself again, especially when again, it is in the post you quoted.
I am aware of what you posted, hence why I've disagreed. I just don't find much strength to your argument. Doug wants to go, I wish he didn't, but I'm sure a Baena type coming in as a result of the money made from deals like this will increase the quality. Then we have the squad stronger by virtue of Iling and Enzo etc. Yes they're prospects, Juve ones who've played Seria A and Champions Legaue in the case of the former. You're crying on about Kellyman whose barely kicked a ball in the 2 years he's been here.
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Then either stop asking me to repeat myself or asking me questions that I have already answered.
We disagree. Thats fine. I can respect that fact.
Let's leave it at that.
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I'm not asking you to repeat yourself. I'm asking why you think we're being short changed. Repeating what you've said wouldn't help that explanation much. I've asked you to expand, your prerogative whether you want to or not.
Are you always this sensitive?
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I think this guy could be good enough to usurp, or complement Kamara, depending on the match and situation. And that's the point about what we're doing.
Every club, every single one, loses players that they'd rather not lose. It's how you replace them that matters. I think that picking up younger, talented, players who aren't at their peak yet is the way to go, because in the longer run we will be better on the pitch and/or more profitable.
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I'm sure Pep wanted to keep Cole Palmer, who is an excellent player. But he wanted to go, as does Doug. They won the league still. It's just football the way it always has been.
Will reserve judgment with Enzo B, but the limited information suggests a better fit than McKennie to cover a yawning great hole in the squad with Kamara out.
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I'm not asking you to repeat yourself. I'm asking why you think we're being short changed. Repeating what you've said wouldn't help that explanation much. I've asked you to expand, your prerogative whether you want to or not.
Are you always this sensitive?
Don't be silly.
Mate, I cant explain it any simpler than I did in the first post you quoted.
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I've not suggested its complex. Getting £60-70m for Luiz, who wants away, plus strengthening the squad seems good business to me. Iling seems a year ahead of Enzo B in development.
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And it's really not meant to be. Im not trying to be a dick, Im just not sure how else to say it.
Maybe the best way I can explain my position is I think Douglas Luiz is worth more than £25M, Iling-Junior & Barrenechea. From a player for player standpoint.
I mentioned the squad depth improvement elsewhere, but it was a few days ago & lost to the forum, so I do recognise that. Along with the PSR reasons & Luiz wanting to leave. Etc.
I just think we could have demanded more for him because we are getting all the risk with potential & Juventus are getting a ready made world class footballer absolutely made for the Italian game.
It's nothing more complicated than that.
If you disagree, then fine. Like I said, I respect that fact.
I do really rate Iling-Juniors potential though & I am very excited about him potentially coming. Im calmer about Barrenechea after watching vids of his play & views of others who have scouted him.
We "might" get the better out of the deal in the long run, but I believe someone on this forum recently criticised the concepts of "Think", "might", "maybe" about young players, because they wouldn't help us much in the here & now. 😉
I suppose the squad depth quality improvement will all depend on who we get in to replace Luiz.
I think you mentioned Baena? I mentioned Guendouzi.
Your suggestion is more attacking, but I think I would prefer Guendouzi for his all round game.
But obviously, we have to wait & see what happens with that.
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I think, with Dougie having been here five years and clearly wanting the move, it would be churlish of us to push for another 5m or something.
Best of luck to him.
I’d rather take 10m less than market and see him go abroad than I would watch turn out at the Tarquinbowl and have to listen to pundits saying what a great player Arteta has made him.
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I think, with Dougie having been here five years and clearly wanting the move, it would be churlish of us to push for another 5m or something.
Best of luck to him.
I’d rather take 10m less than market and see him go abroad than I would watch turn out at the Tarquinbowl and have to listen to pundits saying what a great player Arteta has made him.
That is a fair point.
I hadn't thought about him not being at one of our rivals & competing against us.
I suppose the squad improvement situation will make itself clear when we actually make the transfer to replace Douglas Luiz...
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I 100% agree with you there Paulie. I think £60m is a good fee personally (which is what the value equates to give or take), but it's far better than he disappears off abroad. Strengthening Lego head would be nauseating, not that I think Arsenal need him.
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Also think there is going to be a clear deflation of prices this summer.
The English clubs drive the entire European market with immense spending and we saw in January how clubs were not just unwilling but unable to spend huge.
Having said that, Everton will probably go and spend 200m on Antony now.
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I 100% agree with you there Paulie. I think £60m is a good fee personally (which is what the value equates to give or take), but it's far better than he disappears off abroad. Strengthening Lego head would be nauseating, not that I think Arsenal need him.
I think him and Rice would be a formidable pairing. Plus we avoid the media purring over what a great player Luiz had suddenly become.
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I can understand people being apprehensive about certain deals when viewed individually but the long and short of it is that we're really going to have to wait until the window closes to be sure of what we've actually done and why.
Obviously that would make for a pretty dead forum, so we'll spend all summer arguing about who we should have kept and who we shouldn't have bought, and what not.
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I'm a bit happier with Enzo Barracuda than with Weston, McKennie & Co., as it seems like Juve didn't actually want to include him in the deal and might have been forced into it a bit.
Same here. Imagine the lad turning up and not just seeing Big Emi in the changing room, the next day you're at his house enjoying some top quality bbq. #livingthedream
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I know it's not the same as having played together but I'm liking the idea that we're bringing in two young lads from the same team, even if one was on loan, and then there's several Argentinan players here already. Barkley will already know some of the squad and backroom staff. I don't know if Maatsen knows anyone, but if we're having a bit of an overhaul it's probably good to know the transition will be made easier for some of them. I think Zaniolo struggled last season a fair bit with being alone in a new place. Hopefully we can avoid that with some of the new signings.
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I know it's not the same as having played together but I'm liking the idea that we're bringing in two young lads from the same team, even if one was on loan, and then there's several Argentinan players here already. Barkley will already know some of the squad and backroom staff. I don't know if Maatsen knows anyone, but if we're having a bit of an overhaul it's probably good to know the transition will be made easier for some of them. I think Zaniolo struggled last season a fair bit with being alone in a new place. Hopefully we can avoid that with some of the new signings.
And if we decide to go back in for Soule, he is best mates with Barrenechea...
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The more of his show reels i see the more i think he will become a real crowd favourite.
Him and Kamara battling for the 6 spot will be terrific
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I know it's not the same as having played together but I'm liking the idea that we're bringing in two young lads from the same team, even if one was on loan, and then there's several Argentinan players here already. Barkley will already know some of the squad and backroom staff. I don't know if Maatsen knows anyone, but if we're having a bit of an overhaul it's probably good to know the transition will be made easier for some of them. I think Zaniolo struggled last season a fair bit with being alone in a new place. Hopefully we can avoid that with some of the new signings.
I'd have thought that Maatsen might at least be on nodding terms with Barkley from his Chelsea days?
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Given our interest in Barrenchea, I've been having a bit of a look at Frosinone's season, seeing how he'd done, and he's done okay, with a lot of defensive work as you'd expect from a defensive midfielder in a team battling relegation.
However, another player caught my eye, who also happens to be Argentinian and on-loan from Juventus - Matias Soule. Two years younger at 21, but he looks like a VERY good player in the making. He created the most chances of any player in Serie A last season, despite playing for a side that was relegated. He seems to play in a number of attacking positions, and was at the heart of all the good stuff Frosinone did last season (at least in the highlight packages, anyway).
However, as I pay next to no attention to European league football, this may very well be like me saying, "watch out for that young lad Jude Bellingham" because everyone even remotely well-informed already knows full well who he is...
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However, as I pay next to no attention to European league football, this may very well be like me saying, "watch out for that young lad Jude Bellingham" because everyone even remotely well-informed already knows full well who he is...
Sort of. It was reported that initially we asked for him in the Dougie deal but Juve didn't want to let him go.
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I'd have thought that Maatsen might at least be on nodding terms with Barkley from his Chelsea days?
I wondered the same but it looks like Maatsen might have been on loan the whole time Barkley was there. Not sure though.
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Given our interest in Barrenchea, I've been having a bit of a look at Frosinone's season, seeing how he'd done, and he's done okay, with a lot of defensive work as you'd expect from a defensive midfielder in a team battling relegation.
However, another player caught my eye, who also happens to be Argentinian and on-loan from Juventus - Matias Soule. Two years younger at 21, but he looks like a VERY good player in the making. He created the most chances of any player in Serie A last season, despite playing for a side that was relegated. He seems to play in a number of attacking positions, and was at the heart of all the good stuff Frosinone did last season (at least in the highlight packages, anyway).
However, as I pay next to no attention to European league football, this may very well be like me saying, "watch out for that young lad Jude Bellingham" because everyone even remotely well-informed already knows full well who he is...
According to reports, Villa want him & tried to get him as part of the Douglas Luiz deal.
But they said no because they want £40M for him.
As a side note, he is best mates with incoming Enzo Barrenechea. I think I read somewhere that they were on holiday together after the season ended.
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Not to go all Footy-Vill on this but what's his nickname going to be? John-E's "Barracuda" and Ozzjim's "The Baron" efforts are mighty fine.
Then again, "Enzo" has strong consonant-game and rolls off the tongue quickly.
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Baron Etch-o-sketch.
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Not to go all Footy-Vill on this but what's his nickname going to be?
Alan. If Sid was good enough for Gordan Cowans, Alan is more than good enough for Enzo Alan Tomás Barrenechea
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Not to go all Footy-Vill on this but what's his nickname going to be? John-E's "Barracuda" and Ozzjim's "The Baron" efforts are mighty fine.
Then again, "Enzo" has strong consonant-game and rolls off the tongue quickly.
Chea Seeds. One of the main properties among the many is that they lower blood pressure.
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Taffy
Alan Tomás must be family names and if so it must be a tribute to his Welsh ancestors who like thousands emigrated to Argentina. If memory serves the Welsh migrants were credited for amongst other things, building the railways across Patagonia.
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The more of his show reels i see the more i think he will become a real crowd favourite.
Him and Kamara battling for the 6 spot will be terrific
Same here, think he'll be our Dogo Argentino (of war) in the middle of the pitch. Looking forward to watching him.
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Not to go all Footy-Vill on this but what's his nickname going to be? John-E's "Barracuda" and Ozzjim's "The Baron" efforts are mighty fine.
Chea Guevara.
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Not to go all Footy-Vill on this but what's his nickname going to be? John-E's "Barracuda" and Ozzjim's "The Baron" efforts are mighty fine.
Chea Guevara.
Think we wait to see him player. I love the "The Baron" - but doesn't really work if we see him outclassed by Will Hughes
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I'm a bit happier with Enzo Barracuda than with Weston, McKennie & Co., as it seems like Juve didn't actually want to include him in the deal and might have been forced into it a bit.
Is that on record?
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I'm a bit happier with Enzo Barracuda than with Weston, McKennie & Co., as it seems like Juve didn't actually want to include him in the deal and might have been forced into it a bit.
Is that on record?
In places I have now forgotten, yes. Might have been Gazetta, might have been The Athletic, might have been a dream, sources disagree at this stage.
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^^ I've seen the same.
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Reports are that Junior's having his medical tomorrow, Luiz on Wednesday and the Barron on Friday (which is getting a bit close to the 30th by then).
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There are reports that Motta has told McKennie that he’s not part of his plans and has no future at the club. You have to question his motivation if true yet he’s chosen to stay to leverage an exit payment.
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It is early in the window, maybe McKennie thinks he can get a better deal somewhere else.
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It is early in the window, maybe McKennie thinks he can get a better deal somewhere else.
Down Nando’s.
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There are reports that Motta has told McKennie that he’s not part of his plans and has no future at the club. You have to question his motivation if true yet he’s chosen to stay to leverage an exit payment.
The clue was them being prepared to include him in the deal. Suggests we dodged a bullet that he let the deal collapse.
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It is early in the window, maybe McKennie thinks he can get a better deal somewhere else.
This. He's apparently owed a fair chunk by Juventus, so I don't begrudge him doing everything he can to get what he's owed before leaving, and not instantly agreeing to the first transfer that came up in the summer, less than 10 days after the window opened.
If Juve don't want him, I imagine there will be plenty of clubs interested as the window goes on. It's only been open for 10 days and doesn't close for over two months yet. He might end up ruing his decision, but I don't see this as a snub against us, at all.
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He's apparently owed a fair chunk by Juventus,
“Fair chunk” also happens to be his nickname at Juve.
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I don't begrudge him doing whatever he wants with Juventus.
I do not care, so long as he's not coming here, he's a fat waster.
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I don't begrudge him doing whatever he wants with Juventus.
I do not care, so long as he's not coming here, he's a fat waster.
I sense you have a nose for tubby time wasters.
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Enzo Barrenechea looks a good player I'm excited by us signing him.
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It is early in the window, maybe McKennie thinks he can get a better deal somewhere else.
Down Nando’s.
Is that his motto? "Down Nando's, down it, down it, down it".
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He's here, apparently;
https://x.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1805608142266315009 (https://x.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1805608142266315009)
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Wiki has him as born in Villa Maria. It’s in the stars.
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Hopefully he's left the bowl he uses to cut his hair with back in Italy.
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Hopefully he's left the bowl he uses to cut his hair with back in Italy.
it is what the kids do
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I had the same haircut when I was a kid, doesn't mean it's forgivable.
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I thought he was just Vulcan.
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Wiki has him as born in Villa Maria. It’s in the stars.
Ahem. :)
He was born in Villa María, so he'll feel right at home immediately. I'll even throw in a bottle of Sauvignon Blanc to seal the deal.
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Hopefully he's left the bowl he uses to cut his hair with back in Italy.
I was just thinking he looks like the kind of player the kids will take pictures of to the barber and pay an extortionate amount to look the same.
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Hopefully he's left the bowl he uses to cut his hair with back in Italy.
I was just thinking he looks like the kind of player the kids will take pictures of to the barber and pay an extortionate amount to look the same.
You don't need to go to a barbers to get that done. Scissors, bowl and about 2 minutes. Job done.
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Hopefully he's left the bowl he uses to cut his hair with back in Italy.
I was just thinking he looks like the kind of player the kids will take pictures of to the barber and pay an extortionate amount to look the same.
You don't need to go to a barbers to get that done. Scissors, bowl and about 2 minutes. Job done.
And the scissors have to be some old rusty things.
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Hopefully he's left the bowl he uses to cut his hair with back in Italy.
I was just thinking he looks like the kind of player the kids will take pictures of to the barber and pay an extortionate amount to look the same.
You don't need to go to a barbers to get that done. Scissors, bowl and about 2 minutes. Job done.
That's my point. They'll pay an extortionate price for something their granny could do in the kitchen for free. And we must market this!
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That's my point. They'll pay an extortionate price for something their granny could do in the kitchen for free.
Oooh, errr, Missus.
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*Wayne Rooney has joined the conversation
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He wants a Lionel Blair cut...like mine.
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He wants a Lionel Blair cut...like mine.
Lionel Blair doesn’t have his hair cut like that…
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Wecome Baron.
To quote my favourite H&V aphorism, "Please don't be shit".
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I'm sure we'll just call him Enzo
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He wants a Lionel Blair cut...like mine.
Lionel Blair doesn’t have his hair cut like that…
Does if he comes in here.
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He wants a Lionel Blair cut...like mine.
Lionel Blair doesn’t have his hair cut like that…
Does if he comes in here.
:o
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Welcome Enzo!
https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2024/july/01/Aston-Villa-confirm-double-signing/
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Welcome Lloyd
(https://i.ibb.co/myxTqs0/latest-cb-20180601214955.jpg) (https://ibb.co/myxTqs0)
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Welcome Enzo.
Play like Lothar Matthaus from day 1 or VillaTit will be on your case.
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Welcome Enzo.
Play like Lothar Matthaus from day 1 or VillaTit will be on your case.
The Argentinian Todd Cantwell.
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Is he a central midfielder?
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Welcome Enzo.
Play like Lothar Matthaus from day 1 or VillaTit will be on your case.
The Argentinian Todd Cantwell.
Get prepared for 'Yes, Lothar wasn't a bad player i suppose but not in the same class as David Batty'.
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Welcome Enzo.
Play like Lothar Matthaus from day 1 or VillaTit will be on your case.
The Argentinian Todd Cantwell.
Get prepared for 'Yes, Lothar wasn't a bad player i suppose but not in the same class as David Batty'.
I watched David Batty play a fair bit last season and he's overhyped.
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Welcome Enzo.
Play like Lothar Matthaus from day 1 or VillaTit will be on your case.
The Argentinian Todd Cantwell.
Get prepared for 'Yes, Lothar wasn't a bad player i suppose but not in the same class as David Batty'.
I watched David Batty play a fair bit last season and he's overhyped.
Yes but he was brilliant the year before for Marseille.
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Welcome Enzo.
Play like Lothar Matthaus from day 1 or VillaTit will be on your case.
The Argentinian Todd Cantwell.
Get prepared for 'Yes, Lothar wasn't a bad player i suppose but not in the same class as David Batty'.
I watched David Batty play a fair bit last season and he's overhyped.
Me too, he's too flashy.
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Be good Enzo.
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Batty and our Jules Joachim still togging-out for some team in the Vanarama backwaters no doubt. Bless'em and their love of the game.
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PSR Monday is the new start of the transfer window!
Welcome to the Villa fella
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Looking forward to seeing him play. Have a feeling, he'll be a star.
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Looking forward to seeing him play. Have a feeling, he'll be a star.
That's my feeling, too; our very own Argentinian hitman.
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Only ever seen him play live (on TV) once at the end of last season for Frosinone on TNT, but have to say that I wasn't paying attention to him as we weren't linked at that point.
And I cant say he stood out for me.
But then again, I was purposely looking at Soule, because we were linked to him at the time.
But after reading a lot about Barrenechea & watching a few Youtube videos, other fans rate him & he looks very comfortable on the ball in his videos, albeit he looks like a yellow card waiting to happen, if he makes those challenges in the Prem with our idiot officials.
The one amusing thing I have read about Barrenechea is that before he left Juventus, he was hot prospect, didn't want him to go, etc, but after he left, he apparently wasn't good enough for them & they mugged Villa.
I think reading between the lines, its fair to say that we have a decent prospect on our hands.
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PSR Monday is the new start of the transfer window!
Welcome to the Villa fella
I used to like Tit Monday before such things were frowned upon, I guess this will have to do!
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The one amusing thing I have read about Barrenechea is that before he left Juventus, he was hot prospect, didn't want him to go, etc, but after he left, he apparently wasn't good enough for them & they mugged Villa.
I think reading between the lines, its fair to say that we have a decent prospect on our hands.
'Never fancied her anyway.'
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PSR Monday is the new start of the transfer window!
Welcome to the Villa fella
I used to like Tit Monday before such things were frowned upon, I guess this will have to do!
Ahhhh Tit Monday….
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I live near the Mediterranean Sea. We have No-Tit February.
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Well I'm at my home in Andalucia at the moment and can confirm Tit Monday is very much in evidence today.
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PSR Monday is the new start of the transfer window!
Welcome to the Villa fella
I used to like Tit Monday before such things were frowned upon, I guess this will have to do!
Ahhhh Tit Monday….
While I admit to not being the expert, part of me feels this would have been better fit for a Tuesday?
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Welcome Lloyd
(https://i.ibb.co/myxTqs0/latest-cb-20180601214955.jpg) (https://ibb.co/myxTqs0)
Enzo looks more like Mr Spock
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Looking forward to seeing him play. Have a feeling, he'll be a star.
That's my feeling, too; our very own Argentinian hitman.
A friend for Our Emi! Welcome, Enzo!
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I hadn’t seen this little montage until today. He looks a very good defensive minded young player.
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Blimey, he likes a sliding tackle doesn’t he?
Thank god for VAR.
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Perfect cover for Kamara.
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Looking forward to seeing him play. Have a feeling, he'll be a star.
That's my feeling, too; our very own Argentinian hitman.
A friend for Our Emi! Welcome, Enzo!
Both our Emis surely? We're a multi-Emmy award winning club.
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Looking forward to seeing him play. Have a feeling, he'll be a star.
That's my feeling, too; our very own Argentinian hitman.
A friend for Our Emi! Welcome, Enzo!
Both our Emis surely? We're a multi-Emmy award winning club.
Ooops; the three amigos!
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Looking forward to seeing him play. Have a feeling, he'll be a star.
That's my feeling, too; our very own Argentinian hitman.
A friend for Our Emi! Welcome, Enzo!
Both our Emis surely? We're a multi-Emmy award winning club.
Ooops; the three amigos!
Surely it's The Three Emigos?
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Looking forward to seeing him play. Have a feeling, he'll be a star.
That's my feeling, too; our very own Argentinian hitman.
A friend for Our Emi! Welcome, Enzo!
Both our Emis surely? We're a multi-Emmy award winning club.
Ooops; the three amigos!
Surely it's The Three Emigos?
👏🌟
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Blimey, he likes a sliding tackle doesn’t he?
Thank god for VAR.
and comes away with the ball :)
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Blimey, he likes a sliding tackle doesn’t he?
Thank god for VAR.
Looking at total stats. 120 games and 33 yellows. Currently no red cards. So he might be a booking bet. (Kamara is p248, 54 yellows and 4 reds with three direct reds).
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I can't wait to see him play.
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Blimey, he likes a sliding tackle doesn’t he?
Thank god for VAR.
Looking at total stats. 120 games and 33 yellows. Currently no red cards. So he might be a booking bet. (Kamara is p248, 54 yellows and 4 reds with three direct reds).
Booked every 4 games is definitely high. I agree, well worth a punt.
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Blimey, he likes a sliding tackle doesn’t he?
Thank god for VAR.
and comes away with the ball :)
Yeah, although tbf those youtube promotional videos are only going to show the good tackles.
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Blimey, he likes a sliding tackle doesn’t he?
Thank god for VAR.
Looking at total stats. 120 games and 33 yellows. Currently no red cards. So he might be a booking bet. (Kamara is p248, 54 yellows and 4 reds with three direct reds).
Booked every 4 games is definitely high. I agree, well worth a punt.
He does seem to like yellow card accumulation absences looking at transfermkt.
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I can't wait to see him play.
Agree Daz, I've very intrigued to see how he does.
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We haven't really had a sliding tackle expert since Delaney.
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Perfect cover for Kamara.
Know nothing about him apart from a few highlights packages. Is he that type of player?
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I can't wait to see him play.
Agree Daz, I've very intrigued to see how he does.
Same here.
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Now he's here, he'll need a song (courtesy of R.E.M.).
It's Enzo Barrenechea in the midfield,
It's Enzo Barrenechea in the midfield,
It's Enzo Barrenechea in the midfield, and we feel fine....
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I've been trying to find a pronunciation for his surname, but all I can find is a commentator calling him Bar-anne-eh-chey-ah?
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Baz or Bazzer.
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I've been trying to find a pronunciation for his surname, but all I can find is a commentator calling him Bar-anne-eh-chey-ah?
Journalist very confidently advised Dan Who on pronunciation here (you’ll have to listen and transcribe I forget) https://open.spotify.com/episode/2JC3Y9bq3w3DUKo0WcF5ue?si=IeMihkcrTAuhtCQ0TFRJVw&context=spotify%3Acollection%3Apodcasts%3Aepisodes&t=772 1874 podcast
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Perfect cover for Kamara.
Know nothing about him apart from a few highlights packages. Is he that type of player?
Judging by his YouTube clips I would say yes. But with less finesse.
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(https://i.ibb.co/x6H2PdK/IMG-20240708-WA0018.jpg) (https://ibb.co/x6H2PdK)
Got sent this earlier. Can't verify it but it sounds very promising.
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https://x.com/avfc_nod/status/1810323687280877768
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Didn't think he was even there.
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He wasn’t
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So because only some players were in the pictures, we think the club started pre-season with just 11 players?
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So because only some players were in the pictures, we think the club started pre-season with just 11 players?
No. I’d just read somewhere that he wasn’t back in training yesterday.
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I think they would of shown any photos of the new guys training if they were there
Enzo
Dobbin
Ross - definately not there
Maybe as it was a test day rather than training maybe they stagger it due to resources?
There was no SUE and the clipboard either :'(
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I think they would of shown any photos of the new guys training if they were there
Enzo
Dobbin
Ross - definately not there
Maybe as it was a test day rather than training maybe they stagger it due to resources?
There was no SUE and the clipboard either :'(
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It was reported that Barkley had been working out BH alone after he signed. So possibly he got a week off this week and we will see him along with a few others next week instead. The last to come back will be the Euros, Copa players. We won’t be seeing them until the end of July.
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Most of the group that was in yesterday are the players who've had injuries. The exceptions (from last season) were Digne, Diaby and Carlos that I could see and even then Carlos was coming off the back of a horrific injury the year before and Digne has had a lot of niggles. SIJ was there as well obviously but I do think yesterday was mostly about getting in the people that may be a little behind on fitness to get them assessed early.
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I think they would of shown any photos of the new guys training if they were there
Enzo
Dobbin
Ross - definately not there
Maybe as it was a test day rather than training maybe they stagger it due to resources?
There was no SUE and the clipboard either :'(
That tractor was going faster than Moreno.
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I have to confess that I struggled to identify several players. It went “Oh, there’s Cash, and Digne, Mings, Buendia and Whatsisname, and that’s Pau. Or that’s Pau. That enormous chunk of human being must be Carlos. That other bloke looks like Pau too, how many Paus did we sign for goodness sake. I think I’ve completely lost it. Ah hah, now that’s definitely Pau, I’d recognise him anywhere.”
Kids, don’t do drugs.
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Sam Iling Junior the only new face i saw. Morgan Rogers has gone blonde. Kaine Kesler Hayden in there too.
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I have to confess that I struggled to identify several players. It went “Oh, there’s Cash, and Digne, Mings, Buendia and Whatsisname, and that’s Pau. Or that’s Pau. That enormous chunk of human being must be Carlos. That other bloke looks like Pau too, how many Paus did we sign for goodness sake. I think I’ve completely lost it. Ah hah, now that’s definitely Pau, I’d recognise him anywhere.”
Kids, don’t do drugs.
Eat paella instead.
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Gak!
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There was always one kid who came back to school in September with a ‘trend hair do. Mine was permed at the back in 1983.
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There was always one kid who came back to school in September with a ‘trend hair do. Mine was permed at the back in 1983.
I've never had a trendy hair-do. If it takes longer than 20 seconds to do of a morning, it ain't happening.
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Sam Iling Junior the only new face i saw. Morgan Rogers has gone blonde. Kaine Kesler Hayden in there too.
Was it Rogers and Ramsey in the pic when someone mentioned the "dream team has returned"?
Who was the guy playing catch whilst pushing against the resistance band. Was that KKH?
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Sam Iling Junior the only new face i saw. Morgan Rogers has gone blonde. Kaine Kesler Hayden in there too.
Was it Rogers and Ramsey in the pic when someone mentioned the "dream team has returned"?
Who was the guy playing catch whilst pushing against the resistance band. Was that KKH?
Kamara.
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I’m very happy to see Boubacar back at BH and looking fit. Same re Tyrone and Emi M; now, they’ve definitely been away too long! This season looks good already, especially with the new talent being signed.
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It was like proper pre season training.
There was at least one coughing his guts up 😂
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There was always one kid who came back to school in September with a ‘trend hair do. Mine was permed at the back in 1983.
ha ha I had mine permed around the same year
there’s only one picture of it about and I’ve got it
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I've been trying to find a pronunciation for his surname, but all I can find is a commentator calling him Bar-anne-eh-chey-ah?
Journalist very confidently advised Dan Who on pronunciation here (you’ll have to listen and transcribe I forget) https://open.spotify.com/episode/2JC3Y9bq3w3DUKo0WcF5ue?si=IeMihkcrTAuhtCQ0TFRJVw&context=spotify%3Acollection%3Apodcasts%3Aepisodes&t=772 1874 podcast
That's almost exactly what I've phonetically spelled up there, except he's said it more like Bar-anna-chey-ah.
I'll assume anything resembling that is correct.
I think we could do something with that song that goes "oooooooohhhhhh no baby please don't go" using "enzooooooooo bar-anna-chey-ah"
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I've never had a trendy hair-do. If it takes longer than 20 seconds to do of a morning, it ain't happening.
Same here, as my hair's too thick. A 1 at the side, a 2 on top, and I'll get 4 or 5 weeks out of it.
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Alright Samson
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I've been trying to find a pronunciation for his surname, but all I can find is a commentator calling him Bar-anne-eh-chey-ah?
Journalist very confidently advised Dan Who on pronunciation here (you’ll have to listen and transcribe I forget) https://open.spotify.com/episode/2JC3Y9bq3w3DUKo0WcF5ue?si=IeMihkcrTAuhtCQ0TFRJVw&context=spotify%3Acollection%3Apodcasts%3Aepisodes&t=772 1874 podcast
That's almost exactly what I've phonetically spelled up there, except he's said it more like Bar-anna-chey-ah.
I'll assume anything resembling that is correct.
I think we could do something with that song that goes "oooooooohhhhhh no baby please don't go" using "enzooooooooo bar-anna-chey-ah"
Some commentators still call our French left back "Dinya" despite him telling everyone his surname is pronounced "Dean" so I don't hold out much hope for them pronouncing Barrenachea correctly or even caring enough to do any research.
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Lucas is a fancy foreigner, so has to have a fancy sounding name. He can't sound like he's a bloke who works down the local garage.
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Lucas Dean sounds really odd after hearing commentators try to 'french' it up for so long.
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It's Luke Dean to me, and he runs a roofing and property maintenance firm employing 6 lads, a least one of whom is entirely unreliable.
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Lucas Dean sounds really odd after hearing commentators try to 'french' it up for so long.
He's like a whole new signing.
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Looks like Tyrone has now got two equally sized legs - the drop off of muscle was incredible at the start of his rehab
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Enzo checking in
https://x.com/avfcofficial/status/1811049597881462944?s=46
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<FootieMode>The avoiding of eye contact and the body language tells me they Emery never wanted him and would have preferred a Spanish speaking player instead.</FootieMode>
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They didn't coordinate their training gear, looks like there's a rift in the camp. :(
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Enzo checking in
https://x.com/avfcofficial/status/1811049597881462944?s=46
Nice to see they're learning the Vulcan nerve pinch in training. That will be handy for corners.
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I think he looks a bit like my cousin Oliver, not sure if anyone else has said that, apologies if so.
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I think he looks a bit like my cousin Oliver, not sure if anyone else has said that.
Yes! The minute I saw him I thought he was the spitting image of Oliver.
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I think he looks a bit like my cousin Oliver, not sure if anyone else has said that.
Yes! The minute I saw him I thought he was the spitting image of Oliver.
My son Oliver?
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Looks like Tyrone has now got two equally sized legs - the drop off of muscle was incredible at the start of his rehab
Muscle loss is to be expected with an ACL injury. They have the best Physios and Medical staff to help with rehab....
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Looks like Tyrone has now got two equally sized legs - the drop off of muscle was incredible at the start of his rehab
Muscle loss is to be expected with an ACL injury. They have the best Physios and Medical staff to help with rehab....
Yeah, I remember when I ruptured my hamstring and was on crutches for a 3 months or so. My left leg was <10% of my right leg when I got back to rehab and went on the Kin Com machine 🤣
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Looks like Tyrone has now got two equally sized legs - the drop off of muscle was incredible at the start of his rehab
Muscle loss is to be expected with an ACL injury. They have the best Physios and Medical staff to help with rehab....
I'm only 15-20 minutes away from where he did his rehab in the States, and I can tell you the place is ELITE.
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I think he looks a bit like my cousin Oliver, not sure if anyone else has said that.
Yes! The minute I saw him I thought he was the spitting image of Oliver.
My son Oliver?
Well it's not my son Oliver. He's 6'7" and built like the proverbial. I'll be glad when stops growing.
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spooky
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That training gear is gorgeous. It's going to cost me a fortune
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spooky
I didn't expect that twist either.
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Ollie Watkins is our only Oliver that we can support and co-parent.
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I think he looks a bit like my cousin Oliver, not sure if anyone else has said that, apologies if so.
AD beat you to it when he saw the signing photos.
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I think he looks a bit like my cousin Oliver, not sure if anyone else has said that, apologies if so.
AD beat you to it when he saw the signing photos.
FFS.
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First day at BMH. https://x.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1811471770513469935
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Number 21, it seems. A long surname AND 2 numbers?! Expensive print job.
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Number 21, it seems. A long surname AND 2 numbers?! Expensive print job.
One fixed price these days.
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Must be reassuring for Enzo that his mate Junior is with him and that we have little Emi to show him the ropes.
Just wait till he eyes the demi God that is big Emi.
I get a real good feeling about this kid
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Wonder what language him and SIJ were speaking to each other? Italian?
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Must be reassuring for Enzo that his mate Junior is with him and that we have little Emi to show him the ropes.
Just wait till he eyes the demi God that is big Emi.
I get a real good feeling about this kid
Me too, I think he'll surprise people this season.
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Must be reassuring for Enzo that his mate Junior is with him and that we have little Emi to show him the ropes.
Just wait till he eyes the demi God that is big Emi.
Demi??
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Must be reassuring for Enzo that his mate Junior is with him and that we have little Emi to show him the ropes.
Just wait till he eyes the demi God that is big Emi.
Demi??
No mas.
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Must be reassuring for Enzo that his mate Junior is with him and that we have little Emi to show him the ropes.
Just wait till he eyes the demi God that is big Emi.
Demi??
Yes. He isn't Irish is he?
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Must be reassuring for Enzo that his mate Junior is with him and that we have little Emi to show him the ropes.
Just wait till he eyes the demi God that is big Emi.
Demi??
Indeed, that's blasphemy!
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Just Walsall, obviously, but he looks a player.
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Agreed
Demanded the ball. Used it well. Created space.
Going to be a fan favourite I can feel it in my water
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Agreed
Demanded the ball. Used it well. Created space.
Going to be a fan favourite I can feel it in my water
Absolutely. Loved how in a defensive role, you expect him to keep it neat and tidy, sometimes he does, other times he casually sets up an attack but opposition players don't have a clue what he's going to do.
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And one of this special talents is slide tackling which understandably he wasn’t going to do or need tonight in a friendly.
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I was impressed with his range of passing.
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Did he come across as a Baron?
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Looks to have a rocket of a shot on him too. Maybe he'll provide The Worldie that Zaniolo was suppoed to be supplying?!
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He was our stand out player second half. Impressed.
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He was our stand out player second half. Impressed.
Agreed. also Nedelkovij (sp) the right back - looked strong and quick with the most bowed legs i have ever seen
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He was our stand out player second half. Impressed.
Agreed. also Nedelkovij (sp) the right back - looked strong and quick with the most bowed legs i have ever seen
His legs reminded me of Luc Nilis, being somewhat bowed and i hope that's not an omen. Similarly he had a great touch and control though. The three that stood out were Rogers first half who just looks absolute class and then those 2 second half.
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He was our stand out player second half. Impressed.
Agreed. also Nedelkovij (sp) the right back - looked strong and quick with the most bowed legs i have ever seen
Perhaps he’ll be our Garrincha?!
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While it's only a friendly, thats good to hear about Kosta Nedeljkovic.
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Looks to have a rocket of a shot on him too. Maybe he'll provide The Worldie that Zaniolo was suppoed to be supplying?!
Don’t go burdening Enzo with a worldie reputation, it’s be a curse like Zaniolo!
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He was our stand out player second half. Impressed.
Agreed. also Nedelkovij (sp) the right back - looked strong and quick with the most bowed legs i have ever seen
I have a feeling we’ll be posting about them a lot. Thankfully they have short first names.
You didn’t see Jimmy MacEwan Hookey? I saw him play for the Old Stars in the seventies. ( ) is no exaggeration.
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He was another who did well last night.
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Seems like a level-headed young man.
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Seems like a level-headed young man.
He placed a lot of emphasis on Spanish speaking teammates.. could he be Footy all along?
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Seems like a level-headed young man.
And that’s just his fringe.
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Seems like a level-headed young man.
And that’s just his fringe.
The Vulcans are a precise people.
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I guess he loves God. Possibly our first young midfielder to do so since Aaron Tshibola. God looked after him the day that dozy fucker Steve Clarke convinced Xia to pay Reading over the odds to sign him.
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What was also impressive was the young lady asking the questions. Always good to get a bit of proper professional insight vs Jack Woodward asking a new signing about how they feel about wearing claret and blue or playing at Villa Park.
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Her questions were textbook 101. Jack wasn't any worse.
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Her questions were textbook 101. Jack wasn't any worse.
Jack asked things you'd ask a 5 year old.
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What was also impressive was the young lady asking the questions.
Let's face it, most things sound better in a female, Spanish voice.
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What was also impressive was the young lady asking the questions.
Let's face it, most things sound better in a female, Spanish voice.
no argument there
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Anyone swap him for Weston McKennie?
;D
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There's no guarantees with this guy he hasn't played at any required level and I can't see him as being oven ready to replace Luiz.
Surely it's Onana and Barkley as the 6s.
If he adapts and settles then perhaps yes but have to take into account he's coming to a new country as well as settling into the club has to adjust to living here.
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There's no guarantees with this guy he hasn't played at any required level ...
Well, he played in the Italian top division for most of last season.
My guess is that he's come in to learn the ropes and potentially replace a highly-valued midfielder next summer (2025). I think he has the attributes to be a right baller.
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There's no guarantees with this guy he hasn't played at any required level and I can't see him as being oven ready to replace Luiz.
Surely it's Onana and Barkley as the 6s.
If he adapts and settles then perhaps yes but have to take into account he's coming to a new country as well as settling into the club has to adjust to living here.
While I agree he probably still as a ways to go, he played 36 matches in Serie A last year?
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There's no guarantees with this guy he hasn't played at any required level ...
Well, he played in the Italian top division for most of last season.
My guess is that he's come in to learn the ropes and potentially replace a highly-valued midfielder next summer (2025). I think he has the attributes to be a right baller.
It's because he got relegated last season.
And now has to step up to Champions League Level.
As well as adapting to Prem.
If he doesn't I guess he'll be sold on next season himself
And if develops into a baller he's someone who would be sold for PSR in future too
If he develops this season then it's great and becomes a viable option.
I have less concern about Sam Junior
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I get your point about relegation but we have several players that got relegated before and they're doing alright.
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There's no guarantees with this guy he hasn't played at any required level and I can't see him as being oven ready to replace Luiz.
Surely it's Onana and Barkley as the 6s.
If he adapts and settles then perhaps yes but have to take into account he's coming to a new country as well as settling into the club has to adjust to living here.
While I agree he probably still as a ways to go, he played 36 matches in Serie A last year?
I think there's a mixed record of players moving from Italy to England in recent seasons.
The Spain speaking element is most helpful though and I think that could see him settle.
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I saw him as a good upgrade for Tim Iroegbunam from last years squad.
If we go on a bit of a domestic cup run he'll probably get more game time than the 15 Tim managed last season.
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There's no guarantees with this guy he hasn't played at any required level ...
Well, he played in the Italian top division for most of last season.
My guess is that he's come in to learn the ropes and potentially replace a highly-valued midfielder next summer (2025). I think he has the attributes to be a right baller.
It's because he got relegated last season.
And now has to step up to Champions League Level.
As well as adapting to Prem.
If he doesn't I guess he'll be sold on next season himself
And if develops into a baller he's someone who would be sold for PSR in future too
If he develops this season then it's great and becomes a viable option.
I have less concern about Sam Junior
I'll make no claims about knowing either player well, but Barrenechea seems to me to have the higher potential.
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Baron Enzo
Or Baron is what he can be nicknamed.
He's already got a nickname, they call him The Cheetah.
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Baron Enzo
Or Baron is what he can be nicknamed.
He's already got a nickname, they call him The Cheetah.
I like El Baron that is what he can be named
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Baron Enzo
Or Baron is what he can be nicknamed.
He's already got a nickname, they call him The Cheetah.
I like El Baron that is what he can be named
He'll always be Chea Guevara to me.
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Baron Enzo
Or Baron is what he can be nicknamed.
He's already got a nickname, they call him The Cheetah.
I like El Baron that is what he can be named
He'll always be Chea Guevara to me.
Shay Given?
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Baron Enzo
Or Baron is what he can be nicknamed.
He's already got a nickname, they call him The Cheetah.
Can't be doing with him sharing Bruno Fernandes' nickname.
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The Baron sounds good
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Baron Enzo
Or Baron is what he can be nicknamed.
He's already got a nickname, they call him The Cheetah.
I like El Baron that is what he can be named
He'll always be Chea Guevara to me.
He's a defensive midfielder, not a left winger!
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Baron Enzo
Or Baron is what he can be nicknamed.
He's already got a nickname, they call him The Cheetah.
I like El Baron that is what he can be named
He'll always be Chea Guevara to me.
Or Debussy to a disco beat.
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There's no guarantees with this guy he hasn't played at any required level ...
Well, he played in the Italian top division for most of last season.
My guess is that he's come in to learn the ropes and potentially replace a highly-valued midfielder next summer (2025). I think he has the attributes to be a right baller.
It's because he got relegated last season.
And now has to step up to Champions League Level.
As well as adapting to Prem.
If he doesn't I guess he'll be sold on next season himself
And if develops into a baller he's someone who would be sold for PSR in future too
If he develops this season then it's great and becomes a viable option.
I have less concern about Sam Junior
I'll make no claims about knowing either player well, but Barrenechea seems to me to have the higher potential.
Well Sammy Junior was brought up in England , playing Chelsea academy and then chose Juventus at 16 ahead of Bayern, PSG and Dortmund.
He actually played for Juve last season and he plays for England under 21s.
I thing you'll be pleasantly surprised on how much of a superstar Sammy Junior will be.
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Topic for discussion Sky Sports Article section :Barrenechea to be eased in?
'Barrenechea, 23, mirrors a lot of the same qualities of Luiz in the midfield role. A forward-thinking, decisive passer of the ball who is calm under pressure and comfortable dropping deep. But he will need time to adjust to the Premier League.
His 33 starts while on loan at Frosinone last season are the only regular tests he has faced at the highest level. Although, what he lacks in experience, he makes up for in confidence
The Argentine talent impressed during pre-season but hurling him into the deep end against James Ward-Prowse, Tomas Soucek and Edson Alvarez could cause some cracks to appear in the former Juventus ace's play.
A role off the bench, as he continues to settle in a new country and gets further embedded into the squad, seems a more sensible decision.
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I don't think any of us really saw him starting games from the off, tbh. That sounds entirely sensible, and predictable.
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More importantly, it raises the question of how JWP became such a good footballer. He looks like an estate agent - and if you didn't know who he was - you would feel pretty good lining up against him.
But - he's a bloody good footballer. Though, I guess there are plenty of estate agents that look like footballers.
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More importantly, it raises the question of how JWP became such a good footballer. He looks like an estate agent - and if you didn't know who he was - you would feel pretty good lining up against him.
But - he's a bloody good footballer. Though, I guess there are plenty of estate agents that look like footballers.
Long hours at the training ground and a deep burning unspoken desire that fuels him, spurs him on, drives him to move forward no matter the cost:
”I will NOT give up and become an estate agent!”
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Mate at work watches West Ham and has conceded that he’s been average to shit. I told him this before he signed but because he takes a good free kick he’s fooled people into thinking he’s a good footballer.
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Wasn't Mings an estate agent? He looks more like a model.
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I reckon by the end of the season I'm going for Enzo being one of the best value buys of the summer, across all clubs. I've got a good feeling about this lad.
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More importantly, it raises the question of how JWP became such a good footballer.
It raises the question, since when has JWP been a bloody good footballer?
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I reckon by the end of the season I'm going for Enzo being one of the best value buys of the summer, across all clubs. I've got a good feeling about this lad.
Agreed, I've liked the cut of his jib ever since we bought him. I also agree that we'll integrate him slowly so that he gets all the opportunity to hit the ground running when he does play for us.
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Long-term I really like the idea of being able to pick Kamara as a holding midfielder behind Onana and Enzo to make us a brick wall across midfield.
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I reckon by the end of the season I'm going for Enzo being one of the best value buys of the summer, across all clubs. I've got a good feeling about this lad.
I've also got a good feeling about Enzo.
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Wasn't Mings an estate agent? He looks more like a model.
Pensions adviser or IFA wasn't it? Worked for the same company as Dave of this parish I think.
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Really? I thought Dave Bath's football claim to fame was that a mate of his knows Scott Sinclair quite well.
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Nah, Risso's right. Me and Ty shared an office for a few months back in 2012. Both moved on since then.
He joined in a couple of our work games when his Chippenham schedule allowed. Obviously I ran rings around him.
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I reckon by the end of the season I'm going for Enzo being one of the best value buys of the summer, across all clubs. I've got a good feeling about this lad.
I've also got a good feeling about Enzo.
I not sure on him at all and is way down pecking order for me to be selected
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I'm given to understand that he's named after the second dog to play Eddie in Frasier.
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What’s the situation with this guy, rumours Unai is willing to see him loaned out?
Or is this press rubbish?
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Apparently lazio want him on loan.
I have to say if this happens im going ti be massively disappointed unless others are coming in.
We wanted squad depth and we have loaned the two players that came in with luiz. Dont understand why we didnt just take more money from juve or one player from them who is worth more that could actually contribute thia season
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I get the impression we were somewhat over a barrel, when selling Luiz and that some kind of deal had to be found. Hence we’ve taken a gamble on a couple of players that do not appear to be first team ready and are in reality just prospects that we could “bump up” the values for FFP accounting..
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Enzo looks something special, extremely tidy with the ball, I'll be well pissed off if we send him out on loan.
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I get the impression we were somewhat over a barrel, when selling Luiz and that some kind of deal had to be found. Hence we’ve taken a gamble on a couple of players that do not appear to be first team ready and are in reality just prospects that we could “bump up” the values for FFP accounting..
It does appear that way. But i just dont understand if you think about its only maatsen barkley JPB and onana thats really been added to the squad. Not exactly the squad depth they keep alluding to.
Maatsen for moreno
JPB for Diaby?
Onana for luiz
Barkley you can say is a extra body.
I know we will say we kamara mings buendia and JJ back but all coming back from long term injuries. Big gamble for me if this is how we go in until January with ni further signings
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According to an article I read Unai has "lost trust" in Enzo which doesn't sound good.
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Enzo looks something special, extremely tidy with the ball, I'll be well pissed off if we send him out on loan.
Likewise.
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According to an article I read Unai has "lost trust" in Enzo which doesn't sound good.
Sport Witness? They linked to an Italian article that says nothing of the sort other than he wasn't in the first two match squads this season. In the real world, "Tomorrow he is in the squad," Emery said of Barrenechea. "He is working very well, he is young and has a big potential. His process here with us, it is to try to use progressively his potential getting better.
"Of course, I am happy with him. He is a very good player and a very good person. His adaptation in the squad is fantastic at the moment."
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According to an article I read Unai has "lost trust" in Enzo which doesn't sound good.
Sport Witness? They linked to an Italian article that says nothing of the sort other than he wasn't in the first two match squads this season. In the real world, "Tomorrow he is in the squad," Emery said of Barrenechea. "He is working very well, he is young and has a big potential. His process here with us, it is to try to use progressively his potential getting better.
"Of course, I am happy with him. He is a very good player and a very good person. His adaptation in the squad is fantastic at the moment."
Yes, I read those quotes before not3bad’s post and thought ‘blimey, that was quick’.
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According to an article I read Unai has "lost trust" in Enzo which doesn't sound good.
Sport Witness? They linked to an Italian article that says nothing of the sort other than he wasn't in the first two match squads this season. In the real world, "Tomorrow he is in the squad," Emery said of Barrenechea. "He is working very well, he is young and has a big potential. His process here with us, it is to try to use progressively his potential getting better.
"Of course, I am happy with him. He is a very good player and a very good person. His adaptation in the squad is fantastic at the moment."
Yes, I read those quotes before not3bad’s post and thought ‘blimey, that was quick’.
His Uncles Emi are taking good care of him even if he still hasn't built up the courage to speak to one of them. ;)
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It’s because he was seen rifling through Unai’s pockets after training.
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Channeling his inner Noel Blake.
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I get the impression we were somewhat over a barrel, when selling Luiz and that some kind of deal had to be found. Hence we’ve taken a gamble on a couple of players that do not appear to be first team ready and are in reality just prospects that we could “bump up” the values for FFP accounting..
At least loan them to PL clubs or promotion chasing championship ones. I don't get point of signing them and before their suitcases are fully unpacked they are getting the Ryanair back to Italy again.
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I get the impression we were somewhat over a barrel, when selling Luiz and that some kind of deal had to be found. Hence we’ve taken a gamble on a couple of players that do not appear to be first team ready and are in reality just prospects that we could “bump up” the values for FFP accounting..
At least loan them to PL clubs or promotion chasing championship ones. I don't get point of signing them and before their suitcases are fully unpacked they are getting the Ryanair back to Italy again.
The point was we needed £50m income on our books and this was the only way Juve were prepared t pay it.
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I noticed that Brazil have omitted Luiz from their squad for the next round of matches. Youngsters like Andre and Gerson are picked ahead of him.
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I get the impression we were somewhat over a barrel, when selling Luiz and that some kind of deal had to be found. Hence we’ve taken a gamble on a couple of players that do not appear to be first team ready and are in reality just prospects that we could “bump up” the values for FFP accounting..
At least loan them to PL clubs or promotion chasing championship ones. I don't get point of signing them and before their suitcases are fully unpacked they are getting the Ryanair back to Italy again.
The point was we needed £50m income on our books and this was the only way Juve were prepared t pay it.
Exactly. If either of the 2 players that came fro Juve ever start a PL game for us I will eat my hate. Not gonna happen. They will be loaned out until they can be sold. PSR really is bollocks.
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I get the impression we were somewhat over a barrel, when selling Luiz and that some kind of deal had to be found. Hence we’ve taken a gamble on a couple of players that do not appear to be first team ready and are in reality just prospects that we could “bump up” the values for FFP accounting..
At least loan them to PL clubs or promotion chasing championship ones. I don't get point of signing them and before their suitcases are fully unpacked they are getting the Ryanair back to Italy again.
The point was we needed £50m income on our books and this was the only way Juve were prepared t pay it.
I guess this is probably the truth of it but the squad isn't benefitting one iota and the players in question, including Dobbin, aren't either. We have also lost an outstanding player for what seems like a fraction of what's he was worth to us.
The implementation of PSR is deeply flawed, and the root of all this messing, but I think we are taking the piss this summer.
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I get the impression we were somewhat over a barrel, when selling Luiz and that some kind of deal had to be found. Hence we’ve taken a gamble on a couple of players that do not appear to be first team ready and are in reality just prospects that we could “bump up” the values for FFP accounting..
At least loan them to PL clubs or promotion chasing championship ones. I don't get point of signing them and before their suitcases are fully unpacked they are getting the Ryanair back to Italy again.
Pretty sure we're not allowed to sign a player and then loan them to another Premier League club.
So I'm sure that playing in the Champions League for Bologna is going to be better for everyone than him being at Luton or Norwich.
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I get the impression we were somewhat over a barrel, when selling Luiz and that some kind of deal had to be found. Hence we’ve taken a gamble on a couple of players that do not appear to be first team ready and are in reality just prospects that we could “bump up” the values for FFP accounting..
At least loan them to PL clubs or promotion chasing championship ones. I don't get point of signing them and before their suitcases are fully unpacked they are getting the Ryanair back to Italy again.
The point was we needed £50m income on our books and this was the only way Juve were prepared t pay it.
I guess this is probably the truth of it but the squad isn't benefitting one iota and the players in question, including Dobbin, aren't either. We have also lost an outstanding player for what seems like a fraction of what's he was worth to us.
The implementation of PSR is deeply flawed, and the root of all this messing, but I think we are taking the piss this summer.
We directly replaced him, for eerily similar money if you look at the books, after the weird arbitrary deadline passed. You can say 'taking the piss' if you like - I just find it a bit weird that when everyone's calling the rules nonsense, when loads of clubs are doing exactly the same thing, when it's obvious that the system has forced clubs into a ridiculous position where they have to do bizarre transactions too satisfy these strange and arbitrary conditions, that your main thought is 'I know - I shall criticise Aston Villa '.
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Exactly. If either of the 2 players that came fro Juve ever start a PL game for us I will eat my hate. Not gonna happen.
I'd be looking for an edible hat if I were you.
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Exactly. If either of the 2 players that came fro Juve ever start a PL game for us I will eat my hate. Not gonna happen.
I'd be looking for an edible hat if I were you.
You reckon? I would be very surpised if we see either starting a PL game this season and if that's the case, I can't see how they won't be sold following their loans. I suppose if either has a chance it is more lkely to be Enzo but I doubt it very much. We shall see!
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Exactly. If either of the 2 players that came fro Juve ever start a PL game for us I will eat my hate. Not gonna happen.
I'd be looking for an edible hat if I were you.
You reckon? I would be very surpised if we see either starting a PL game this season and if that's the case, I can't see how they won't be sold following their loans. I suppose if either has a chance it is more lkely to be Enzo but I doubt it very much. We shall see!
Definitely the other way round. I like Enzo fine but Iling Junior was starting games for Juve in the Champions League while he was holding together an indifferent -and relegated - Frosinone midfield.
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Exactly. If either of the 2 players that came fro Juve ever start a PL game for us I will eat my hate. Not gonna happen.
I'd be looking for an edible hat if I were you.
You reckon? I would be very surpised if we see either starting a PL game this season and if that's the case, I can't see how they won't be sold following their loans. I suppose if either has a chance it is more lkely to be Enzo but I doubt it very much. We shall see!
Definitely the other way round. I like Enzo fine but Iling Junior was starting games for Juve in the Champions League while he was holding together an indifferent -and relegated - Frosinone midfield.
You don't think he will go out on loan? Aren't we a bit stacked in his position?
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Ah, I understood 'this season' and 'after the loans' wrong. Yeah much more likely Enzo this season, Iling Junior is off to Bologna.
But - and what I was getting at - it's noticeable that the loan agreement is with a CL club and (according to fab Fab) has no buy option. I think he might well be a long term option for us.
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Exactly. If either of the 2 players that came fro Juve ever start a PL game for us I will eat my hate. Not gonna happen.
I'd be looking for an edible hat if I were you.
You reckon? I would be very surpised if we see either starting a PL game this season and if that's the case, I can't see how they won't be sold following their loans. I suppose if either has a chance it is more lkely to be Enzo but I doubt it very much. We shall see!
We've got a young winger who is younger than most of the players we consider youth prospects who has been playing regularly for one of the biggest clubs in the world. Until we signed him for a lot of money.
I'm pretty sure that if Louie Barrie or Kaine Kesler-Hayden had started and won the Italian Cup final for Juventus a few months ago we wouldn't be talking about how they would never play a game for us, so why is Iling-Junior different?
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I said Illing-Junior has more chance, and whilst it might be right for them to go on loan it’s still a bit disappointing.
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Exactly. If either of the 2 players that came fro Juve ever start a PL game for us I will eat my hate. Not gonna happen.
I'd be looking for an edible hat if I were you.
You reckon? I would be very surpised if we see either starting a PL game this season and if that's the case, I can't see how they won't be sold following their loans. I suppose if either has a chance it is more lkely to be Enzo but I doubt it very much. We shall see!
Definitely the other way round. I like Enzo fine but Iling Junior was starting games for Juve in the Champions League while he was holding together an indifferent -and relegated - Frosinone midfield.
I-J started a handful of games. Enzo started most games for Frosinone and got a shitload of experience doing that. Barrenechea will get a decent amount of gametime with Villa this season.
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I think they're both good prospects, but I-J is younger and was at a much more difficult place to get games.
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I'd assume, given Luiz is gone and Kamara is still going to be missing for a while, we'd be keeping Enzo around. We can put Onana and Tielemans into the starting 11 instead if Kamara and Luiz, and that leaves us with Barkley as the only alternative option.
I know we've got McGinn, Bailey, Rogers, Ramsey, and Philogene to work with too, but they all seem like more attacking players than Enzo.
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I'd assume, given Luiz is gone and Kamara is still going to be missing for a while, we'd be keeping Enzo around. We can put Onana and Tielemans into the starting 11 instead if Kamara and Luiz, and that leaves us with Barkley as the only alternative option.
I know we've got McGinn, Bailey, Rogers, Ramsey, and Philogene to work with too, but they all seem like more attacking players than Enzo.
And Donk. He’s not as bad as we sometimes make out, and is less likely to be phased by the situation compared to a youngster from Argentina.
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He played thirty odd games in Serie A last season. Is a game for Villa against Brentford going to phase him more than a trip to Napoli or Inter with Frosinone would?
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Donk won't be here next week. Regardless, I don't see us signing any more CMs this window. A RB/RCB and a right winger/striker if Durán goes and maybe even if he doesn't, please.
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I can see a world where Barranechea gets a few minutes this season here and there while Onana and Kamara trade games during busy weeks. Then we cash in big on Kamara next summer for PSR, and Barranechea steps up into the rotation with a years experience working with Emery under his belt.
Obviously it could go wildly wrong, but I like the idea that most of our signings seem to have an eye on the future.
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I can see a world where Barranechea gets a few minutes this season here and there while Onana and Kamara trade games during busy weeks. Then we cash in big on Kamara next summer for PSR, and Barranechea steps up into the rotation with a years experience working with Emery under his belt.
Obviously it could go wildly wrong, but I like the idea that most of our signings seem to have an eye on the future.
I think this is a very plausible theory.
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I can see a world where Barranechea gets a few minutes this season here and there while Onana and Kamara trade games during busy weeks. Then we cash in big on Kamara next summer for PSR, and Barranechea steps up into the rotation with a years experience working with Emery under his belt.
Obviously it could go wildly wrong, but I like the idea that most of our signings seem to have an eye on the future.
I think you are onto something with kamara. I can see him being offloaded next summer for pure profit. For me all depends how much that injuries taken out of him
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I think there is a reasonable chance that (in broad terms) Tielemans is Luiz replacement, and Onana is Karama. (no like for like as such - but I think thats the pivot Unai will be playing next season).
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I think there is a reasonable chance that (in broad terms) Tielemans is Luiz replacement, and Onana is Karama. (no like for like as such - but I think thats the pivot Unai will be playing next season).
Got to say disappointing if thats the plan. Dont think youri is as good as dougie tbh.
Onana havent seen enough of yet but doesnt seem the same type of player. Kamara is a small ball winner onana is a huge unit thats physical and full of energy. Both DMs but i think different types of players
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Barronechea apparently off to Valencia. Thought he looked a really decent player pre season.
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Suspect this means Kamara is a lot closer than anticipated.
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Not sure this is wise. Still puts us a couple of injuries away from some difficulty.
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Probably sensible for the future to get him plenty more game time. Probably not sensible for our squad depth this season.
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Probably sensible for the future to get him plenty more game time. Probably not sensible for our squad depth this season.
Was just going to make the same point. As I said before, as it stands we've added one, possibly two first teamers this transfer window. Signing youngsters will hopefully bear fruit in the future, either with good players or with the fees they bring in, but we've not really had as good a window as it was looking to be at one point.
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It's only sensible if Villa see him simply as an asset. If the 2 Luiz swap players have good seasons on loan and go for say... £15-20m next summer, the Luiz deal looks good. Right now, it looks very iffy.
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You have to be impressed with the calibre of club we're sending these lads to, though. Bologna, Valencia...we're now kingpins.
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Probably sensible for the future to get him plenty more game time. Probably not sensible for our squad depth this season.
Was just going to make the same point. As I said before, as it stands we've added one, possibly two first teamers this transfer window. Signing youngsters will hopefully bear fruit in the future, either with good players or with the fees they bring in, but we've not really had as good a window as it was looking to be at one point.
If Geertruida joins as expected he provides a lot of the same cover whilst also being an option at CB and RB. Given how restricted for places the European squad is I can see the sense in having a couple of players who are covering multiple positions like that.
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You have to be impressed with the calibre of club we're sending these lads to, though. Bologna, Valencia...we're now kingpins.
Would be disappointing to see Chea Guevara go out on loan but, as you say, at least it's to someone like Valencia rather than Plymouth.
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You have to be impressed with the calibre of club we're sending these lads to, though. Bologna, Valencia...we're now kingpins.
Would be disappointing to see Chea Guevara go out on loan but, as you say, at least it's to someone like Valencia rather than Plymouth.
Yeah, I'm a bit gutted because I like what I've seen but you can't argue that Valencia isn't a really high level to continue learning your trade.
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Wonder how much of this is because we can’t move Dendonker on.
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I get the logic on Illing-Junior and Enzo in terms of development, but we already experienced some very tough injuries last season and we did brilliantly, but just crept over the line in the end. If we suffered a similar injury crisis this year I’d like us to be better placed to be more resilient. I get there’s a balance to strike, as you hope not to get a load of injuries, but feels like we’re potentially exposed.
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Wonder how much of this is because we can’t move Dendonker on.
More likely that we're happy with Kamara's progress.
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This is an odd one. Juventus fleeced us.
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Wonder how much of this is because we can’t move Dendonker on.
More likely that we're happy with Kamara's progress.
I'm just relieved that we have no experience of players coming back from injuries only to suffer a recurrence shortly afterwards.
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This is an odd one. Juventus fleeced us.
Not in the slightest, I reckon the worst case scenario is that both of them go out on loan and get sold next year and as a minimum we double our money.
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This is an odd one. Juventus fleeced us.
I wouldnt say they fleeced us , more part paid us with a longer term investment
Takes a bit of the romance out of getting excited about new signings
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I said in the other thread, I'd be surprised if we had any interest in either of the Juve players prior to them coming in for Luiz. We had to make the best of a bad situation and maybe pick a couple we thought we could make money on in the future.
Hopefully it's more about game time and progression for them to play a part with us next season rather than fattening them up for a quick FFP win.
Either way, as long as it benefits us in the end I suppose it doesn't matter, but do think we're leaving ourselves a bit short.
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This is an odd one. Juventus fleeced us.
Schrodinger's transfer deals.
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One or two injuries and i think our injury struggles. Dont understand the logic in this at all. We get two players from juve loan them straight out - dont sign any replacement.
The only two players that are likley first teamers are maatsen and onana.
If the window shut tomorrow i would say our business last summer was alot better than this summer. Im quite disappointed with how our summer has panned out in all honesty in that scenerio
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This is an odd one. Juventus fleeced us.
Not in the slightest, I reckon the worst case scenario is that both of them go out on loan and get sold next year and as a minimum we double our money.
Even if we do "double our money", which is doubtful, we'd still only break even at best, considering how cheaply we sold Luiz.
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I said in the other thread, I'd be surprised if we had any interest in either of the Juve players prior to them coming in for Luiz.
It's odd though, there are obviously other Juve players that we could have had instead if we weren't that bothered about these two.
McKennie, Soulé, Chiesa, Huijsen were all clearly on the table if we'd been interested in pushing for any of them instead.
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I said in the other thread, I'd be surprised if we had any interest in either of the Juve players prior to them coming in for Luiz.
It's odd though, there are obviously other Juve players that we could have had instead if we weren't that bothered about these two.
McKennie, Soulé, Chiesa, Huijsen were all clearly on the table if we'd been interested in pushing for any of them instead.
I would imagine we couldn't agree on valuations for those.
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I said in the other thread, I'd be surprised if we had any interest in either of the Juve players prior to them coming in for Luiz.
It's odd though, there are obviously other Juve players that we could have had instead if we weren't that bothered about these two.
McKennie, Soulé, Chiesa, Huijsen were all clearly on the table if we'd been interested in pushing for any of them instead.
Maybe wages for these chaps would've been an issue? McKennie and Chiesa are likely on more than Enzo and Iling-Junior.
Or they would've fancied a straight swap for McKennie!
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PSR fucked us plus the similar rule governing European competition. Not just having to sell a player like Doug but what we could do in return. We signed instead two promising players for about £10m or so each who at minimum keep their value. And given their age they will hopefully make some kind of profit for us long term whether they play or not. But our hand was forced by what we had to do by June 30th.
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This is an odd one. Juventus fleeced us.
I wouldnt say they fleeced us , more part paid us with a longer term investment
Takes a bit of the romance out of getting excited about new signings
What's worse is the fact that we had to take two young players off their hands, who won't make an immediate impact, to make the Luiz deal work.. and they go and spend €59m on Koopmeiners a few weeks later.
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You have to be impressed with the calibre of club we're sending these lads to, though. Bologna, Valencia...we're now kingpins.
Would be disappointing to see Chea Guevara go out on loan but, as you say, at least it's to someone like Valencia rather than Plymouth.
Yeah, I'm a bit gutted because I like what I've seen but you can't argue that Valencia isn't a really high level to continue learning your trade.
They're not the team they were a few years back, currently they're bottom of the league after two games and look likely to lose again today, away at Athletic. Sounds like they're skint. Could be another relation battle for Enzo, hardly the type of experience we'd want for him. At least he'll be busy.
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This is an odd one. Juventus fleeced us.
I wouldnt say they fleeced us , more part paid us with a longer term investment
Takes a bit of the romance out of getting excited about new signings
What's worse is the fact that we had to take two young players off their hands, who won't make an immediate impact, to make the Luiz deal work.. and they go and spend €59m on Koopmeiners a few weeks later.
Good point. If they'd wanted to give us the money it's not like they didn't have it.
DL could easily end up their fourth choice central midfielder.
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It all seems a bit odd, but I guess Man City , Chelsea, Liverpool etc sign players and fans rarely if ever see them play.
We sell Luiz for less than what he is worth on June 30th and then sign Iling-Junior and Barrenechea the day after (so a new PSR period presumably). They were clearly not signed with a view to improving us in the short term and they may never work out at all, but have the right age profile for future resale.
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This is an odd one. Juventus fleeced us.
I wouldnt say they fleeced us , more part paid us with a longer term investment
Takes a bit of the romance out of getting excited about new signings
What's worse is the fact that we had to take two young players off their hands, who won't make an immediate impact, to make the Luiz deal work.. and they go and spend €59m on Koopmeiners a few weeks later.
Good point. If they'd wanted to give us the money it's not like they didn't have it.
DL could easily end up their fourth choice central midfielder.
There clearly weren’t as many suitors for Doug. As good and sometimes great as he was for us, it was early in the window. And he is only a back up Brazilian international midfielder. So we couldn’t even promote that aspect, compared to say Newcastlle could for Guimares. Even Joelinton gets more games for them. We had to sell someone and took the best deal on the table.
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You have to be impressed with the calibre of club we're sending these lads to, though. Bologna, Valencia...we're now kingpins.
Would be disappointing to see Chea Guevara go out on loan but, as you say, at least it's to someone like Valencia rather than Plymouth.
Yeah, I'm a bit gutted because I like what I've seen but you can't argue that Valencia isn't a really high level to continue learning your trade.
They're not the team they were a few years back, currently they're bottom of the league after two games and look likely to lose again today, away at Athletic. Sounds like they're skint. Could be another relation battle for Enzo, hardly the type of experience we'd want for him. At least he'll be busy.
Fair point. As long as he gets regular game time though then I'm content with it.
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I said in the other thread, I'd be surprised if we had any interest in either of the Juve players prior to them coming in for Luiz. We had to make the best of a bad situation and maybe pick a couple we thought we could make money on in the future.
Hopefully it's more about game time and progression for them to play a part with us next season rather than fattening them up for a quick FFP win.
Either way, as long as it benefits us in the end I suppose it doesn't matter, but do think we're leaving ourselves a bit short.
I think it's concerning that Emery didn't think either of the two Juve players were up to playing regularly for us in the PL or Europe this season. It isn't like Spurs when they got in Bentancur and Kulusevski and they were straight into their team (can't recall who they sold at the time). I don't think any of us thought Dobbin would play a minute for us.
Luiz is a huge loss but Tielemans has had a solid start replacing him in that role, set pieces certainly have been on par so far. Barkley is there as his backup. Kamara and Onana for the other spot. McGinn can drop in there too. Decent coverage in CM.
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I think it's concerning that Emery didn't think either of the two Juve players were up to playing regularly for us in the PL or Europe this season. It isn't like Spurs when they got in Bentancur and Kulusevski and they were straight into their team (can't recall who they sold at the time).
They didn't really sell anyone who was linked to those deals. They just happened to be two players that they were interested in
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The bought Bentancur and at the same time took Kulusevski on an 18month loan with the option to buy which they did 18 months later. So not the same deals at all.
(According to transfermarkt, the last time a Spurs player went to Juve was in 1957).
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I think it's concerning that Emery didn't think either of the two Juve players were up to playing regularly for us in the PL or Europe this season. It isn't like Spurs when they got in Bentancur and Kulusevski and they were straight into their team (can't recall who they sold at the time).
They didn't really sell anyone who was linked to those deals. They just happened to be two players that they were interested in
We should've held out for Soulé. A €3.6m difference in the cumulative cost of Enzo and Iling Jr. and what Juve sold him to Roma for. At the time, they claimed him to be untouchable.. then they sell him to a rival four weeks later.
Juve are dirty.
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I said in the other thread, I'd be surprised if we had any interest in either of the Juve players prior to them coming in for Luiz. We had to make the best of a bad situation and maybe pick a couple we thought we could make money on in the future.
Hopefully it's more about game time and progression for them to play a part with us next season rather than fattening them up for a quick FFP win.
Either way, as long as it benefits us in the end I suppose it doesn't matter, but do think we're leaving ourselves a bit short.
It may benefit us in the end, but I'm pretty convinced it's now how we would have chosen to use such a significant portion of our transfer budget.
I agree with those who think we've been fleeced, whether the gamble pays off in the medium term or not.
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We should've held out for Soulé. A €3.6m difference in the cumulative cost of Enzo and Iling Jr. and what Juve sold him to Roma for. At the time, they claimed him to be untouchable.. then sell him four weeks later.
Juve are dirty.
I don't think there's any evidence they did claim that. I think people assumed that because we weren't buying Soulé then they might have wanted to keep him. They were quite happy to sell him to Leicester, but the player turned them down to go to Roma.
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I wonder if there was an agreement with Dougie that we wouldn't sell him to an English club in return for asking for a lower transfer fee from a club/country of his choice.
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Couldn't we keep Enzo and send Barkley out on loan instead?
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Couldn't we keep Enzo and send Barkley out on loan instead?
If Tielemans got an injury I'd much rather rely on a player who was excellent in the PL last season than an untested youngster.
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I see Chiesa is off to Liverpool for around £10m, total bargain if true
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It all seems a bit odd, but I guess Man City , Chelsea, Liverpool etc sign players and fans rarely if ever see them play.
We sell Luiz for less than what he is worth on June 30th and then sign Iling-Junior and Barrenechea the day after (so a new PSR period presumably). They were clearly not signed with a view to improving us in the short term and they may never work out at all, but have the right age profile for future resale.
Just think this has been a terrible deal all round. If enzo and illing jr were playing a part this season id say great but as it stands would have kept luiz
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It all seems a bit odd, but I guess Man City , Chelsea, Liverpool etc sign players and fans rarely if ever see them play.
We sell Luiz for less than what he is worth on June 30th and then sign Iling-Junior and Barrenechea the day after (so a new PSR period presumably). They were clearly not signed with a view to improving us in the short term and they may never work out at all, but have the right age profile for future resale.
Just think this has been a terrible deal all round. If enzo and illing jr were playing a part this season id say great but as it stands would have kept luiz
And failed PSR.
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It all seems a bit odd, but I guess Man City , Chelsea, Liverpool etc sign players and fans rarely if ever see them play.
We sell Luiz for less than what he is worth on June 30th and then sign Iling-Junior and Barrenechea the day after (so a new PSR period presumably). They were clearly not signed with a view to improving us in the short term and they may never work out at all, but have the right age profile for future resale.
Just think this has been a terrible deal all round. If enzo and illing jr were playing a part this season id say great but as it stands would have kept luiz
And failed PSR.
Sell another player - id rather have sold mcginn than luiz tbh. Or duran
Some rumours going through that enzo deal has been put on hold due to a 'transfer market issue' accoridng to villa religion
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We signed Tielemans last year to cover for Luiz leaving this year. I suspect we bought Onana this year to. Cover for Kamara going next year. I reckon we may just have acted a year early in getting Barrenechea to cover Onana.
We're planning for the future, not just the here and now. We have to.
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Some rumours going through that enzo deal has been put on hold due to a 'transfer market issue' accoridng to villa religion
Talk of them needing to offload André Almeida first.
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Most likely three of our midfielders have gone down with ACL injuries.
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Some of our summer business has been a bit bizarre .
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Some rumours going through that enzo deal has been put on hold due to a 'transfer market issue' accoridng to villa religion
Talk of them needing to offload André Almeida first.
Most of the online whisperings seem to be that the issue is our end, not theirs. We've unexpectedly managed to sell a player, a player we were going to sign has fallen through, or we've got a catastrophic injury. Or Barrenechea is unable to leave the training ground because his security pass won't download to Google Wallet.
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Some rumours going through that enzo deal has been put on hold due to a 'transfer market issue' accoridng to villa religion
Talk of them needing to offload André Almeida first.
Apparently carlos is injured and cash injury has left us short. Also saying mings and kamara wont be back as quickly as we would have liked.
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Some rumours going through that enzo deal has been put on hold due to a 'transfer market issue' accoridng to villa religion
Talk of them needing to offload André Almeida first.
Most of the online whisperings seem to be that the issue is our end, not theirs. We've unexpectedly managed to sell a player, a player we were going to sign has fallen through, or we've got a catastrophic injury. Or Barrenechea is unable to leave the training ground because his security pass won't download to Google Wallet.
Talk that Anderlecht and Wolves are interested in Dendoncker.
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Some of our summer business has been a bit bizarre .
Every time you look around, it's making you crazy.
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Some rumours going through that enzo deal has been put on hold due to a 'transfer market issue' accoridng to villa religion
Talk of them needing to offload André Almeida first.
Apparently carlos is injured and cash injury has left us short. Also saying mings and kamara wont be back as quickly as we would have liked.
Also Lazio want to take him on loan for the season with an option to buy. Probably bullshit but apparently the fee they are offering is not to our liking. After this summer all of Italy must think we're mugs.
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Not going anywhere according to Instagram. Unai blocking the move after Valencia strop off apparently.
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Great news.
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Some of our summer business has been a bit bizarre .
Every time you look around, it's making you crazy.
OMC 1996 ?
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Talks have resumed with Valencia according to Villareport on Twitter
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Talks have resumed with Valencia according to Villareport on Twitter
Makes no sense unless someone else is coming in
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If he goes out on loan, I hope he comes back without that dodgy crucifix earring. I have no problem with earrings, I have one myself, but walking around with the suffering baby Jesus on a lobe is beyond the pale.
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My guess is we were hoping Donk would go yesterday, today we think he wont
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If he goes out on loan, I hope he comes back without that dodgy crucifix earring. I have no problem with earrings, I have one myself, but walking around with the suffering baby Jesus on a lobe is beyond the pale.
What's yours like?
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My guess is we were hoping Donk would go yesterday, today we think he wont
Looks like we are stuck with him 😔
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If he goes out on loan, I hope he comes back without that dodgy crucifix earring. I have no problem with earrings, I have one myself, but walking around with the suffering baby Jesus on a lobe is beyond the pale.
What's yours like?
I'm a cliche so I have a 1990s-hangover top-of-the-right-ear small hoop.
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Brett!
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Gone to Valencia.
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Gone to Valencia.
:(
NO buy option clause as key part of future #AVFC plans. 8)
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Gone to Valencia.
:(
NO buy option clause as key part of future #AVFC plans. 8)
Here we go CONFIRMED, Villa have accepted Valencia's proposal with no option clause as part of the package, 2001 Enzo is excited to join the new project, only wanted Valencia.
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This is shite.
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Squad weaker. Oh well hope it works.
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Hopefully we have a cunning plan.
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If he goes out on loan, I hope he comes back without that dodgy crucifix earring. I have no problem with earrings, I have one myself, but walking around with the suffering baby Jesus on a lobe is beyond the pale.
What's yours like?
I'm guessing SE's is a diamond encrusted number, like Ronaldo's sporting tonight.
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Yuri & Barkley
Onana & Kamara
McGinn & Donk to fill in. Solid enough.
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I don’t understand it.
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Donks fucking shit. Sorry, but he is.
We've just been drawn in our first foray into the big boy pond in 40 years and we're a day before the deadline a couple of injuries from being so far up the shitty creek that we're drowning in the stuff.
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What a bizarre window this is . Poor almost.
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Gone to Valencia.
:(
NO buy option clause as key part of future #AVFC plans. 8)
Here we go CONFIRMED, Villa have accepted Valencia's proposal with no option clause as part of the package, 2001 Enzo is excited to join the new project, only wanted Valencia.
That is so on the money.
“I loved my adventure with Aston Villa. They will forever be in my heart. But now it’s time for a new chapter.”
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Yuri & Barkley
Onana & Kamara
McGinn & Donk to fill in. Solid enough.
Ergh im already having nightmares if we have to field dendonked against juventus od bayern.
Kamara god knows when he will kick a ball. Makes no sense loaning enzo. Zero unless a replacement is coming in
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Yuri & Barkley
Onana & Kamara
McGinn & Donk to fill in. Solid enough.
Ergh im already having nightmares if we have to field dendonked against juventus od bayern.
Kamara god knows when he will kick a ball. Makes no sense loaning enzo. Zero unless a replacement is coming in
You've been having nightmares about the looney Kennedy. Calm down.
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Yuri & Barkley
Onana & Kamara
McGinn & Donk to fill in. Solid enough.
Ergh im already having nightmares if we have to field dendonked against juventus od bayern.
Kamara god knows when he will kick a ball. Makes no sense loaning enzo. Zero unless a replacement is coming in
You've been having nightmares about the looney Kennedy. Calm down.
Eh ? Strange comment
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I think it makes sense for these two players to loan them out. If they're not quite where we need them to be, and they're not going to get there sitting on our bench occasionally, then sending them on loan to get a full season of football is, in the long term, better for us. Its not like we've loaned them to West Brom or something.
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I think it makes sense for these two players to loan them out. If they're not quite where we need them to be, and they're not going to get there sitting on our bench occasionally, then sending them on loan to get a full season of football is, in the long term, better for us. Its not like we've loaned them to West Brom or something.
I would agree if the squad was massive but the sad reality is it isnt.
We have already had cash injured and kosta a q8 year old is being thrown in the deep end as we have no one else. If he gets injured konsa goes rb. Then who plays with pau? As carlos ia injured. This is just one example.
If onana gets injured enzo would play as kamara is still injured. Now we would have to go for dendonker who for me isnt good enough
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^ look at the benches from our first two league games though. There was no room for the two Juve lads. We possibly have to name a smaller squad for Europe because of the homegrown thing, so maybe they weren't going to be included there either?
I get what you're saying about injuries, and I know our record is bad in that respect, but I think keeping them here just on the off chance that a specific player got injured, would be a waste of their time. Iling-Junior will be playing CL where he is, and might not have made our squad for it if he's stayed.
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Kamara must only be a month or so away from returning to full training.
Feels odd to let him go so soon if Kamara won't be back in contention until December.
Our midfield has looked fine so far but we know from last few seasons it's only a matter of time before injuries hit in that area.
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Kamara must only be a month or so away from returning to full training.
Feels odd to let him go so soon if Kamara won't be back in contention until December.
Our midfield has looked fine so far but we know from last few seasons it's only a matter of time before injuries hit in that area.
We should ahve kept him until January seen how kam is then loan him. This just crazy. Kamara is going to need time. Honestly if onana gets injured we are screwed. Id rather have enzo there than dendonker
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I think it makes sense for these two players to loan them out. If they're not quite where we need them to be, and they're not going to get there sitting on our bench occasionally, then sending them on loan to get a full season of football is, in the long term, better for us. Its not like we've loaned them to West Brom or something.
I agree. we are trying to build a sustainable club for the long term. For that, some signings need to be for ‘next season’ or even further out. As I suggested previously, a good season for Enzo and we will reluctantly cash in on Kamara in summer 2025 for big money. Onana fills that void and Enzo becomes the back up having established himself during two full seasons playing in two different leagues.
The Kamara money buys a Tielemans/McGinn understudy so the succession plan is in place for the next phase.
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I think it makes sense for these two players to loan them out. If they're not quite where we need them to be, and they're not going to get there sitting on our bench occasionally, then sending them on loan to get a full season of football is, in the long term, better for us. Its not like we've loaned them to West Brom or something.
I agree. we are trying to build a sustainable club for the long term. For that, some signings need to be for ‘next season’ or even further out. As I suggested previously, a good season for Enzo and we will reluctantly cash in on Kamara in summer 2025 for big money. Onana fills that void and Enzo becomes the back up having established himself during two full seasons playing in two different leagues.
The Kamara money buys a Tielemans/McGinn understudy so the succession plan is in place for the next phase.
It would be great dante if the squad was bigger and we didnt have such a demanding amount of games. We have 2 extra games compared to last season in europe (potentially a further 2 if we get to the play offs) add that to league, carabao and fa cup. Thats a hige amount of games with 4 players coming back from long term injuries.
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We have 2 extra games compared to last season in europe (potentially a further 2 if we get to the play offs)
I'm on board with the squad being a little bit lighter than I'd like, but we played fourteen matches in the Conference League last season.
Thinking we'll play 16-18 Champions League matches strikes me as very optimistic.
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We played two qualifiers against Hibs last year so the total European matches even out. Hopefully we will have more domestic cup games this season (though we definitely won't be losing a replay again).
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We have 2 extra games compared to last season in europe (potentially a further 2 if we get to the play offs)
I'm on board with the squad being a little bit lighter than I'd like, but we played fourteen matches in the Conference League last season.
Thinking we'll play 16-18 Champions League matches strikes me as very optimistic.
If we're in a European seni-final come May with a 4/10 window, then imagine what a 5/10 would have delivered!
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Something must have changed during the week though, Unai was praising him highly last week, saying he'd be part of the squad etc. and now we have shipped him out. I guess they are wiggling to the limit to see if we can get someone in, or they were confident of getting rid of Donk.
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We have 2 extra games compared to last season in europe (potentially a further 2 if we get to the play offs)
I'm on board with the squad being a little bit lighter than I'd like, but we played fourteen matches in the Conference League last season.
Thinking we'll play 16-18 Champions League matches strikes me as very optimistic.
Yeah i would agree we are unlikely to get to 16-18 stage.
I guess if we go out in CL group stage it would allow us to focus on the league. Just think having enzo here is handy for the cup games and potential injuries
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If we go out in the League Stage, that would be disappointing.
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We have 2 extra games compared to last season in europe (potentially a further 2 if we get to the play offs)
I'm on board with the squad being a little bit lighter than I'd like, but we played fourteen matches in the Conference League last season.
Thinking we'll play 16-18 Champions League matches strikes me as very optimistic.
Yeah i would agree we are unlikely to get to 16-18 stage.
So we wouldn't have an extra two games in Europe next season. We have plausibly six fewer, and if we even end up having even the same then we'll have done far better than anyone expects us to.
So all good on the number of games front.
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We have 2 extra games compared to last season in europe (potentially a further 2 if we get to the play offs)
I'm on board with the squad being a little bit lighter than I'd like, but we played fourteen matches in the Conference League last season.
Thinking we'll play 16-18 Champions League matches strikes me as very optimistic.
Yeah i would agree we are unlikely to get to 16-18 stage.
So we wouldn't have an extra two games in Europe next season. We have plausibly six fewer, and if we even end up having even the same then we'll have done far better than anyone expects us to.
So all good on the number of games front.
.yeah i didnt take into consideration the qualifiers we had with hibs to bw honest dave forgot about those. But they were pretty easy games in comparison to these tough CL games we will have
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Very disappointed he's gone out on loan as he looks a real quality footballer. That said, he's 23 and needs to be playing games it's just a shame he won't be getting the minutes at Villa Park. It would appear Unai prefers Barkley to replace Onana who obviously can't play every single game.
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Last season was really his first full season because of injuries. It's better that he goes and has another full season than not making our matchday squads. That we didn't include an option to buy suggests he may be part of our forward planning.
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Look at our benches for the last two games - who is he getting in the squad ahead of?
Unfortunately, we don't have the finances to be able to pay players who aren't in the squad, even if loaning them out does mean risking issues with injuries.
Also, I suspect Emery doesn't like to waste a player's time when he's not going to use him.
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Look at our benches for the last two games - who is he getting in the squad ahead of?
Now that Cash is out for 6 weeks, who's going on the bench now to fill that place? Moreno's gone, Iling-Jr's gone, Barrenechea's gone. Back to two keepers in the squad?
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Bogarde with Konsa moving over to RB if necessary.
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I thought cash was 1 week into a 4 week injury?
But still, keeping him around because someone in another position he doesn't play in might get injured for a few weeks when we are so tight on the finances is a luxury we can't afford unless we have to.
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There was an article in the Athletic that said that in possession, we've been spreading the 2 centre backs across the defensive line, bringing Onana and Tielemens into the centre and that's allowed McGinn and Rogers to drop into the centre mid spots to be available for the pass.
So we've not been shaping up with 3 centre backs when in possession. That suggests Konsa won't be a third centre back very often, if at all.
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Is the Baron 23? For some reason I thought he was younger than LL Cool J.
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Is the Baron 23? For some reason I thought he was younger than LL Cool J.
Yeah, Chea's 23 so he's older than our Beastie Boy.
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Aston Villa can confirm that Enzo Barrenechea has joined Valencia on loan.
The midfielder signed for Villa earlier this summer from Juventus and featured during Unai Emery’s pre-season preparations.
Barrenechea started his career at Newell’s Old Boys in his native Argentina before moving to Europe with Sion.
Last season he was on loan at Serie A side Frosinone, making 39 appearances.
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It'll help him to learn Spanish and fit in with Emery.*
*now that's silly.
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It'll help him to learn Spanish and fit in with Emery.*
*now that's silly.
Not if you've heard the Spanish in Argentina.
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Not that I'm one for reading into things on social media but I notice he's changed his bio to include Valencia, but it says AVFC/Valencia, which I thought was nice.
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Hope he does well there and is given a chance here. I have a theory that enzo will be kamaras replacement next summer
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On the bench for Valencia tonight against Atletico.
Update - came on at half time, they lost 0-3.
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For a defensive midfielder, he's playing at the right club to understand pressure. Valencia are shockingly poor, nice stadium though. Another defeat tonight losing 2-3, at least it wasn't seven, against an old Madness song. I still think he's class!
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Hope he does well there and is given a chance here. I have a theory that enzo will be kamaras replacement next summer
Why would we sell one of our very best players?
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Hope he does well there and is given a chance here. I have a theory that enzo will be kamaras replacement next summer
With respect, that theory is absolutely bonkers. Lol
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Hope he does well there and is given a chance here. I have a theory that enzo will be kamaras replacement next summer
Yeah, no
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For a defensive midfielder, he's playing at the right club to understand pressure. Valencia are shockingly poor, nice stadium though. Another defeat tonight losing 2-3, at least it wasn't seven, against an old Madness song. I still think he's class!
Tuned into that briefly too, out of curiosity.
The game was, as you say, shockingly poor - neither team could string more than a handful of passes together.
Thought Enzo was actually a cut above, but was taken off when Valencia went 2-1 down.
Really grim fare though, despite being in one of the great city centre stadia.
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He was on a yellow and they probably realise they can't afford to lose him.
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Ah, missed the yellow.
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Hope he does well there and is given a chance here. I have a theory that enzo will be kamaras replacement next summer
Yeah, no
Deano!
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Hope he does well there and is given a chance here. I have a theory that enzo will be kamaras replacement next summer
I hope not.
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Hope he does well there and is given a chance here. I have a theory that enzo will be kamaras replacement next summer
With respect, that theory is absolutely bonkers. Lol
Yeah i hope im wrong
Just saying for FFP purposes as he will be pure profit
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Called up to the national team.
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Dont see where enzo plays now kamaras back next season. He looks a talent though
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I snese that he's a talent and - if so - hopefully Emery will find a place for him.
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Hope he does well there and is given a chance here. I have a theory that enzo will be kamaras replacement next summer
Why would we sell one of our very best players?
Why would Kamara leave the Champions League winners?
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Called up to the national team.
Brilliant.
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Called up to the national team.
Congratulations, Tuscans!
Look forward to your debut.
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Hope he does well there and is given a chance here. I have a theory that enzo will be kamaras replacement next summer
Why would we sell one of our very best players?
Clubs sell their best players all the time. I'm sure we didn't want to sell Luiz or Grealish for example
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Hope he does well there and is given a chance here. I have a theory that enzo will be kamaras replacement next summer
Qualifying for the group stage of the CL will certainly help the coffers. Plus, we need two great players in every position if we really want to consistently compete at the top end of the league.
Why would we sell one of our very best players?
Clubs sell their best players all the time. I'm sure we didn't want to sell Luiz or Grealish for example
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Called up to the national team.
Congratulations, Tuscans!
Look forward to your debut.
Haha!
Will there be a stream do you think?
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Called up to the national team.
Congratulations, Tuscans!
Look forward to your debut.
Haha!
Will there be a stream do you think?
Thank you guys. Bit of a late call up but hopefully I get on to earn my first "hat".
Link to the match below, subtitles available.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0jtlkpw/sgorio-cyfres-2024-sgorio-cymru-v-montenegro
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Is there any scope we can recall him in janaury? We really need more options in DM
Not sure why we loaned him out when we really could have used him
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Is it actually any good - dont think any of us know?
Think hes just a pawn in an accountants wet dream?
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Is it actually any good - dont think any of us know?
Think hes just a pawn in an accountants wet dream?
I thought someone posted that he was doing well in valencia unless im going crazy
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Is there any scope we can recall him in janaury? We really need more options in DM
Not sure why we loaned him out when we really could have used him
We have Onana and Kamara as DMs, he wouldn't have been able to develop here. It's just unfortunate both are injured but 2 for every position is what most teams aim for.
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Is there any scope we can recall him in janaury? We really need more options in DM
Not sure why we loaned him out when we really could have used him
We have Onana and Kamara as DMs, he wouldn't have been able to develop here. It's just unfortunate both are injured but 2 for every position is what most teams aim for.
I think we should have kept him till janauary just to see how kamara would be after such a lengthy injury
Dont think onanas been playing the DM role very much for us
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He's started the last three games for Valencia, so seems to be developing nicely.
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He's started the last three games for Valencia, so seems to be developing nicely.
That’s good news. He’ll hopefully return a better player. DCM need games so it’s idea he’s doing his learning elsewhere.
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Would we have been able to register him if we kept him (and Illing-Jr) back?
Edit: Yes as we seem to have four spaces spare.
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Would we have been able to register him if we kept him (and Illing-Jr) back?
Edit: Yes as we seem to have four spaces spare.
Thanks. That is a question i wanted to know myself
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Reading that enzo played very well this week
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Is there any scope we can recall him in janaury? We really need more options in DM
Not sure why we loaned him out when we really could have used him
We have Onana and Kamara as DMs, he wouldn't have been able to develop here. It's just unfortunate both are injured but 2 for every position is what most teams aim for.
I think we should have kept him till janauary just to see how kamara would be after such a lengthy injury
Dont think onanas been playing the DM role very much for us
So when Onana plays alongside Tielemans, you don't think he's the DM?
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Is there any scope we can recall him in janaury? We really need more options in DM
Not sure why we loaned him out when we really could have used him
We have Onana and Kamara as DMs, he wouldn't have been able to develop here. It's just unfortunate both are injured but 2 for every position is what most teams aim for.
I think we should have kept him till janauary just to see how kamara would be after such a lengthy injury
Dont think onanas been playing the DM role very much for us
So when Onana plays alongside Tielemans, you don't think he's the DM?
Its not about thinking if he plays it, its more is he doing it well and has the fitness to do it for 90 minutes. Early signs say no
Enzo would be in the team right now and had lots of minutes. Dont think it was a smart decision to loan him straight away. I said at the start of season i was disappointed he was being loaned out as we were jot sure how long kamara would need to get up to speed.
I would have waited till January then considered a loan
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Onana has most definatley played defensive midfield since he's been here but he hasn't been able to stay fit, that's the problem. I really don't think having Enzo sitting on our bench would have helped him or us. He's getting game time which will do him good. He may come back in January, who knows but I hardly think it's worth constantly bringing him up.
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Onana has most definatley played defensive midfield since he's been here but he hasn't been able to stay fit, that's the problem. I really don't think having Enzo sitting on our bench would have helped him or us. He's getting game time which will do him good. He may come back in January, who knows but I hardly think it's worth constantly bringing him up.
I think ive mentioned 2 or 3 times only. Its a key point we dont have a proper DM apart from kamara. Enzo is another DM hence why its being bought up. He would have got a lot of game time considering all the injuries we have had
As for onana agree with you about his fitness issues. Its abit frustrating as its very stop start
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We can't foresee injuries, that's the point. We don't have Mystic fucking Meg on the staff. Although I'd have her working on figuring out how to stop conceding goals from our corners.
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We can't foresee injuries, that's the point. We don't have Mystic fucking Meg on the staff. Although I'd have her working on figuring out how to stop conceding goals from our corners.
I was thinking, maybe we should concentrate on not getting corners in the first place. Rick Wakeman-features can surely use his big set piece brain to avoid getting awarded them?
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Valencia are struggling near the bottom so I wonder if Enzo has been given his chance due to poor form of more senior midfielders. They beat Betis 4-2 at the weekend, I caught the goals on a TV in a bar in Madrid. Didn't see our fella but there was a lot of emotion in the celebrations, it might have been one of their first games at the Mestalla since the devastating floods.
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We can't foresee injuries, that's the point. We don't have Mystic fucking Meg on the staff. Although I'd have her working on figuring out how to stop conceding goals from our corners.
I was thinking, maybe we should concentrate on not getting corners in the first place. Rick Wakeman-features can surely use his big set piece brain to avoid getting awarded them?
He can invent the ultimate short corner, straight out of play. I think I'd prefer that at the moment, and he can sit content that he has contributed.
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Bertie Auld did that deliberately for the Blues once.
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Bertie Auld did that deliberately for the Blues once.
I have no idea who that is but he sounds like a visionary!
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Valencia are struggling near the bottom so I wonder if Enzo has been given his chance due to poor form of more senior midfielders. They beat Betis 4-2 at the weekend, I caught the goals on a TV in a bar in Madrid. Didn't see our fella but there was a lot of emotion in the celebrations, it might have been one of their first games at the Mestalla since the devastating floods.
... and, Barrenechea spent all of last season on loan to an Italian side that struggled throughout, and came away with credit. Maybe the Valencia situation doesn't phase him much.
Definitely sounds like we need him!
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Bertie Auld did that deliberately for the Blues once.
I have no idea who that is but he sounds like a visionary!
Played for Blues early sixties, transferred to Celtic where he won the European Cup. Not all that bad a player as I recall.
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Is there any scope we can recall him in janaury? We really need more options in DM
Not sure why we loaned him out when we really could have used him
We have Onana and Kamara as DMs, he wouldn't have been able to develop here. It's just unfortunate both are injured but 2 for every position is what most teams aim for.
I think we should have kept him till janauary just to see how kamara would be after such a lengthy injury
Dont think onanas been playing the DM role very much for us
So when Onana plays alongside Tielemans, you don't think he's the DM?
Its not about thinking if he plays it, its more is he doing it well and has the fitness to do it for 90 minutes. Early signs say no
Enzo would be in the team right now and had lots of minutes. Dont think it was a smart decision to loan him straight away. I said at the start of season i was disappointed he was being loaned out as we were jot sure how long kamara would need to get up to speed.
I would have waited till January then considered a loan
Without the injuries he barely would have played though which would shit for his development. We also have no idea if he's ready to play in this league anyway, it's a massive assumption to think he'd be making a difference right now given he's never played a competitive match for us.
The idea of just keeping players around is short sighted
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I think we (fans in general) have a tendency to lean towards a couple of "common knowledge" style viewpoints that aren't necessarily correct.
First is how we think about loans. This might be better on the Barry thread but it also works for here and specifically Corey's reply. This manifests in 2 ways, firstly that the point of a loan to a lower level is to prove they're too good for it and secondly that a loan where they play every week is better for player development than them being a squad player elsewhere (including at their home club). For some players this is correct but it's not the right approach for everyone and we need to consider the wisdom of things like "XX is doing well in league 1 so he needs to go to the championship next" and "YY has done well for the reserves so now he needs a loan" and "ZZ is struggling for games/performances/goals so a loan to get his confidence back will help".
Second is the 'levels' thing that comes up so often as "AA is a bottom half standard player" or that playing well and regularly for a team that's struggling is somehow less (or more) valuable than doing similar for a top of the table side.
Personally I'd have kept Barrenechea around in the summer, not necessarily to play regularly or to be cover if Kamara hadn't come back but more because I think the demands Emery has for his central midfielders are very high and we can already see all of the options we have (along with Luiz last year) struggling to do everything he wants from them. I think a year of being around that would have him in a better place to step up next season and be a valuable member of the squad.
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Good post Paul
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Seconded great post paul
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I think we (fans in general) have a tendency to lean towards a couple of "common knowledge" style viewpoints that aren't necessarily correct.
Agree with this, and would add one other tempting fallacy - which is that the answer to our current problems will be provided by anyone other than the players currently available for selection (i.e., not Enzo, not Barry, etc., however tempting that may seem).
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Personally I'd have kept Barrenechea around in the summer, not necessarily to play regularly or to be cover if Kamara hadn't come back but more because I think the demands Emery has for his central midfielders are very high and we can already see all of the options we have (along with Luiz last year) struggling to do everything he wants from them. I think a year of being around that would have him in a better place to step up next season and be a valuable member of the squad.
I think the risk is that he would have struggled for minutes and he would see it as a wasted year. He's already lost a chunk of his young career to an ACL and his loan last year was his first season in senior football so the experience does him good.
There is an upside to being around the first team squad but the player's mentality and their mindset have to be considered. I think he wants to be playing considering the above and not getting many minutes would have been frustrating. He wasn't even making the 18-man squads at the start of the season when Valencia made their approach.
Next pre-season will be interesting for him.
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I wonder what the club’s formula is? As good as Paul’s theory is about ourselves I bet theirs is far more scientific than anything we might think.
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Personally I'd have kept Barrenechea around in the summer, not necessarily to play regularly or to be cover if Kamara hadn't come back but more because I think the demands Emery has for his central midfielders are very high and we can already see all of the options we have (along with Luiz last year) struggling to do everything he wants from them. I think a year of being around that would have him in a better place to step up next season and be a valuable member of the squad.
I think the risk is that he would have struggled for minutes and he would see it as a wasted year. He's already lost a chunk of his young career to an ACL and his loan last year was his first season in senior football so the experience does him good.
There is an upside to being around the first team squad but the player's mentality and their mindset have to be considered. I think he wants to be playing considering the above and not getting many minutes would have been frustrating. He wasn't even making the 18-man squads at the start of the season when Valencia made their approach.
Next pre-season will be interesting for him.
I agree, and I suspect he shared similar concerns which is why we let him go out for the year.
I was talking about the best thing for the club, that's not always the same as the best thing for the player.
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He's started the last three games for Valencia, so seems to be developing nicely.
Now back to being an unused substitute. Valencia lost to previously-bottom Valladolid yesterday and are now two points adrift at the bottom themselves.
So probably just sell Barrenechea for spare organs.
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He's started the last three games for Valencia, so seems to be developing nicely.
Now back to being an unused substitute. Valencia lost to previously-bottom Valladolid yesterday and are now two points adrift at the bottom themselves.
So probably just sell Barrenechea for spare organs.
Thanks for the update. For me at the time i had issue of us loaning him out when we have had a demanding schedule of games. Enzo would have got game time here as we have struggled defensively and its only recently kamara has come back.
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He's started the last three games for Valencia, so seems to be developing nicely.
Now back to being an unused substitute. Valencia lost to previously-bottom Valladolid yesterday and are now two points adrift at the bottom themselves.
So probably just sell Barrenechea for spare organs.
Thanks for the update. For me at the time i had issue of us loaning him out when we have had a demanding schedule of games. Enzo would have got game time here as we have struggled defensively and its only recently kamara has come back.
We’ve had problems at right back but Kosta hasn’t really had a look in, similar profile of player.
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Difference is Kosta was wanted at the time. Enzo was a make-weight who, if we are lucky, will be sold for a few mil.
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Difference is Kosta was wanted at the time. Enzo was a make-weight who, if we are lucky, will be sold for a few mil.
Although we don't actually know that.
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Rumours of his being recalled. We are clearly down to the bones on midfield at the moment
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Been very good for Valencia lately, and would give us a viable ball player next to Kamara.
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Rumours of his being recalled. We are clearly down to the bones on midfield at the moment
From anywhere credible?
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Rumours of his being recalled. We are clearly down to the bones on midfield at the moment
From anywhere credible?
Yeah, he's from Argentina.
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Rumours of his being recalled. We are clearly down to the bones on midfield at the moment
From anywhere credible?
Collomosse being coy
https://x.com/tomcollomosse/status/1882371354764403177?s=61&t=5gNHKFDBiIG50p8ei1L0Vg
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Collomosse stealing a march on the JTs - Jacob Tanswell, John Townsley and John Terry who you think might be good for Villa intel.
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I'd be surprised if this happens even though we are short, we just don't have the room in the squad.
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He's doing well, he's our player, and our midfield could do with a few faces who don't get injured every ten minutes so get him back.
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He's doing well, he's our player, and our midfield could do with a few faces who don't get injured every ten minutes so get him back.
All good points, but how do we register him for the CL squad and who does he replace?
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He's doing well, he's our player, and our midfield could do with a few faces who don't get injured every ten minutes so get him back.
All good points, but how do we register him for the CL squad and who does he replace?
We could leave him out but have him available for domestic games in between to give relief to those that are eligible.
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If Buendia left he could take his place
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If Buendia left he could take his place
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If you say it three times it will happen but please don't. Buendia > Beetlejuice/Barrenechea
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If Buendia left he could take his place
We are only allowed three changes. Assuming those are Bade, Garcia and Malen for Carlos, Ned and Philogene, we don't have the capacity. If we sold Buendia and one other, then we would be allowed one extra change I believe. (There might be something for long term all season plus injuries as well. )
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Maybe if we didn't count Carlos twice?
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Some chatter that he didn’t show for training today and is heading back to us.
This is taken from the internet so it is almost certainly nonsense.
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Some chatter that he didn’t show for training today and is heading back to us.
This is taken from the internet so it is almost certainly nonsense.
This? https://x.com/olii_avfc/status/1882463371293020619
Tom Collomosse also hinted about 'Barrenechea news' in a reply to a tweet by John Townley.
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Rumours of his being recalled. We are clearly down to the bones on midfield at the moment
From anywhere credible?
Yeah, he's from Argentina.
He said credible not Córdoba.
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Some chatter that he didn’t show for training today and is heading back to us.
This is taken from the internet so it is almost certainly nonsense.
This? https://x.com/olii_avfc/status/1882463371293020619
Tom Collomosse also hinted about 'Barrenechea news' in a reply to a tweet by John Townley.
The plane in question flew out from BHX to Valencia earlier today.
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Bit of a bump, but he seems to be doing well
https://x.com/AVFCStatto/status/1898817738212024719?t=eOuVbFXGue6eIILHBa57bw&s=19
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He looks like he could be fantastic find, he’s having a great season. It will be interesting if he’s with us next season or on loan again.
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Surely will make good cover for kamara next season?
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Surely will make good cover for kamara next season?
If Kamara doesn't sign a new contract soon, he'll be his replacement.
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He'll have played almost two full seasons in Serie A and La Liga. I expect him to be part of the squad next season.
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Starting to look a real player. Be lovely to have him and Kamara next season with the fitness records of Onana and Barkley.
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If he came back then we would be very well stocked for DCM. Something like: 1. Kamara 2. Onana 3. Bogarde 4. Barkley (Tielemans and McGinn could also play there if needed).
It might be a position where we can look to sell a player and promote Enzo but I'd hate to see Kamara go and I don't think we'd receive much value elsewhere.
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If he comes back to be part of our squad, it means someone else is going, as we don't have room for another central midfielder. Kamara, Onana, Tielemens, McGinn, Barkley, and Enzo (plus Bogarde at a push) is too many CMs while we continue to play with a '10' player in the Rogers/Asensio position.
If we're erring on the side of caution in games, and playing with three genuine central midfielders rather than a 10, then maybe, but even then, 6 players to cover 2 (or sometimes 3) positions feels like a lot? If it weren't for PSR I wouldn't care either way!
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We could have done with an extra one over the last few weeks....
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Like with most potential squad decisions, qualifying for European competition will play a big part in this. Another CL campaign, and mounting a better league campaign, we could well do with all those CM players. No Europe and we might have to cut a couple.
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Bear in mind Barkley only has a two year deal.
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Surely will make good cover for kamara next season?
If Kamara doesn't sign a new contract soon, he'll be his replacement.
I’ll be surprised if Kamara’s deal isn’t done this summer. His current contract doesn’t end until June 30th 2027 so there is time.
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Bear in mind Barkley only has a two year deal.
Wikipedia says he signed a 3 year deal.
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It was reported as a two year contract with us having the option to extend it by a further year if we want to.
Which would obviously tick both those boxes.
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Transwell in the Athletic
Enzo Barrenechea did not waste any time to impress after signing for Aston Villa in the summer.
After a few early pre-season sessions, some team-mates’ assessments were conclusive: they were “blown away” by the Argentine midfielder’s technical ability following his move from Juventus in July.
Though his Villa career has taken a slightly different course, Barrenechea, 23, continues to attract attention after impressing on loan at Valencia since August.
Barrenechea was a late addition to Villa’s summer transfer dealings with Juventus. The two clubs had been discussing how to create a transfer, with ex-Villa midfielder Douglas Luiz the pawn. With profit and sustainability rules (PSR) in mind, several separate player transactions were discussed.
Villa manager Unai Emery had long advocated for USMNT midfielder Weston McKennie and made attempts to sign him in previous windows.
A deal for McKennie to move from Juventus to Villa Park, however, was unlikely to be completed before the June 30 financial deadline for PSR and would have delayed Douglas Luiz’s sale. Both clubs were pressed for time as they sought alternative solutions — one of which was Barrenechea.
The final deal saw Douglas Luiz swap the Premier League for Serie A for £42million ($55m), with Villa spending €22m (£18.5m; $24m) on Juventus duo Samuel Iling-Junior and Barrenechea (€11m each), amortised over five-year contracts.
“Samuel and Enzo are young players we trust,” Damian Vidagany, Villa’s director of football operations, told a group of journalists in September. “Maybe we knew they wouldn’t be ready to play for us immediately but both are young, talented, sustainable salaries and in the next year, they’re going to be good assets. That’s why people don’t understand (and say), ‘You buy a player then you loan him!’. But it’s not easy. What I want to stress is this deal was extremely difficult.”
In retrospect, none of the three players have offered an immediate impact. Iling-Junior was initially sent on loan to Bologna before a similar deal to Middlesbrough in January, while Douglas Luiz has endured a miserable time in Italy.
The experience for Barrenechea, however, has been rather different. He made a positive impact in Villa’s pre-season but the pathway into Emery’s midfield was congested following Amadou Onana’s club-record £50million acquisition from Everton and Boubacar Kamara’s improving fitness. Villa were unsure whether they should, from a development perspective, keep Barrenechea or send him on loan.
The player wanted game time and Valencia was the club, from a profile and opportunity standpoint, that appealed. Playing regularly in La Liga would ensure Barrenechea remained in the spotlight. Villa changed their minds twice, initially approving a season-long loan before, late in the summer window, insisting he would stay.
Emery said he would be involved in Villa’s opening home fixture against Arsenal, only for him to be left out 24 hours later. On deadline day, Villa — specifically Emery — pivoted once again, eventually granting the move.
Barrenechea’s stock was high among European scouting circles after a promising period on loan at promoted Serie A side Frosinone in the 2023-24 season. He made 36 league appearances and typically operated as the more conservative half of a midfield pair in a 3-4-2-1 formation.
Valencia tracked the player at Frosinone. A senior club source, speaking anonymously to protect relationships, says Barrenechea “was complete in the sense that he had the defensive ability, physicality and Argentinian personality” regarded as necessary at Valencia, given their enduring slump. They wanted to sign him permanently, only for Villa’s financial might to dash those hopes.
“We knew Enzo since he arrived at Juventus in 2020 from Sion,” says Gianluca Longo, chief scout at Frosinone. “He has always been a very interesting player and the year before our promotion to Serie A, we followed him a lot with Juventus’ Next Gen Squad and watched him live. In July 2023, we were looking for a central midfielder with his skill to dictate possession and he was the first player we decided on.
“Enzo matched what we needed. We are a small team so we have to pay huge attention on the finances. We decided to work on young players to buy and loan, developing relationships with the best clubs in Italy such as Juve and Atalanta and in Europe with Bayern Munich, Monaco and Real Madrid. Enzo was the first of the three Juventus players we took on loan during the season, along with Matias Soule and Kaio Jorge.”
Frosinone was Barrenechea’s fourth club in as many years, having joined Sion in Switzerland in a deal worth around €3million from Newell’s Old Boys in Argentina in 2019.
“I saw him for the first time before a game,” says Damien Buchard, Barrenechea’s team-mate at Sion. “He was training with the first team but originally playing some games with the under-21s. He didn’t speak French and only Spanish, so it wasn’t easy to communicate. Fortunately, I can also speak Spanish, so he stayed and spoke a lot with me. It was the first time he had left Argentina as a young 18-year-old and it wasn’t easy for him.
“Sion had a good relationship with Juventus, so I wasn’t surprised he left a year later. He missed home but his mentality was so strong. Other players have great quality but do not sign for such a club as Juventus or Aston Villa. I was quite sure at the time that he would finish his career playing at a great level.”
In November, Barrenechea was called up to Argentina’s national squad for the first time. He plays with an inherent maturity, is aggressive out of possession and has enjoyed the responsibility inadvertently put on him at Valencia in their quest for survival in La Liga.
Starting 15 of Valencia’s last 18 league matches — staying in the team despite a change of manager — Barrenechea’s presence has offered robustness to a team in flux. His early adaptation was “not easy”, according to sources at Valencia, as he struggled to complete matches due to a disrupted and “bumpy pre-season”.
Valencia now believe he is attuned. New head coach Carlos Corberan has deployed him as the deep-lying midfielder in a 4-2-3-1 system that can rotate, with Barrenechea dropping between the central defenders to receive the ball or allowing midfield partner, Javi Guerra, to push into higher areas, becoming a 4-3-3
Since matchday one, this has become a fight to avoid the drop,” says Paco Polit, a journalist who covers Valencia. “So the context where Enzo is playing isn’t the best one, but he’s been making the best of it. He might not be the best player in the team in almost any single game, but in a team where most have been failing, he has never been responsible for bad results because his performances are well above par.
“Valencia don’t have an alternative defensive midfielder, which is good for him because since Corberan has come in, he has been the undisputed starter. In a better team, he might shine even more.”
With more than 1,400 minutes in La Liga, Barrenechea has a body of work his parent club can reliably assess.
Villa will map out next season’s plans to convince Barrenechea to stay or, with the recurring issue of PSR and Valencia keen to sign him permanently, decide to cash in. Both clubs share a good relationship and feel comfortable discussing their viewpoints.
Barrenechea’s signing may prove to be a slow-burning success, whether in Emery’s squad or their accountancy books.
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At his age he's getting a very good level of experience. He's 2 years older than Bogarde and his development is obviously more advanced. The 2 of them could well be part of the long term future in the heart of midfield. I'd be extremely suprised if we let him go permenantley. I'd prefer him back and send Bogarde on a 12 month loan to give him the minutes he needs to develop.
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One thing is for certain, even when signings don’t work out, we can see that the club has a proper long term plan. And a good one at that.
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I’d like to see him get a chance here if possible. Also if we paid £11m for him are Valencia in a financial position to make it worth selling him to them?
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Did we pay anything ? he was part of money and 2 player exchange wasn’t he for Douglas Luiz ?
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Did we pay anything ? he was part of money and 2 player exchange wasn’t he for Douglas Luiz ?
Yeah sorry, the Athletic article said spending €11m but it was more likely valued at, in the Douglas Luiz transfer jiggery-pokery.
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The currencies and valuations are a bit chaotic in that piece (excellent though I think Jacob Tanswell is), so I’ve simplified it for people (like me) who need it.
Dougie was valued at £42m - £23.5m cash plus the two players at £9.25m each.
Their values will be amortised over 5 years, which means we profit if we sell either this year at anything above their book value - £7.4m this summer.
I think there’s potential to get quite a bit more than that for Enzo. Less so for Samuel.
Of course, they could also become actual playing assets. There’s a novel idea.
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For me it all depends on if kamara signs a new contract. I would imagine if he hasnt by summer we will sell him rather than lose him for nothing and use enzo next season as a replacement. Otherwise if he signs i think enzo would be sold.
Personally if someone made a offer for onana close to what we paid he would be the one i would sell as we need reliable players
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kamara has 2 1/4 years yet.
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As an alternative point of view - in his three seasons with us Kamara has only appeared in 24/20/17 league games for us...
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As an alternative point of view - in his three seasons with us Kamara has only appeared in 24/20/17 league games for us...
Wow. Good stat
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Which may be in the club's decision-making process...
As brilliant as he is, he can't do much when lying on a recovery bed at Bodymoor.
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Compounded with the amount of games Onana has missed.
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Which may be in the club's decision-making process...
As brilliant as he is, he can't do much when lying on a recovery bed at Bodymoor.
It's probably on the club's mind, but also his as well - if we were to put a new five year deal in front of him, he'd be quite brave to sit tight and wait for summer 2028 and leaving for nothing.
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kamara has 2 1/4 years yet.
Yes but this summer is two years you can risk kamara having 12 months left on his contract and walk for free
As an alternative point of view - in his three seasons with us Kamara has only appeared in 24/20/17 league games for us...
Tbf though he did pick up a significant knee injury which was a major reason for that..
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Compounded with the amount of games Onana has missed.
between Kamara and Onana, not to mention Barkley - we're pretty injury prone in the middle of the park
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kamara has 2 1/4 years yet.
Yes but this summer is two years you can risk kamara having 12 months left on his contract and walk for free
As an alternative point of view - in his three seasons with us Kamara has only appeared in 24/20/17 league games for us...
Tbf though he did pick up a significant knee injury which was a major reason for that..
He'd still have good value with 12 months left. And if he did go for free in 2027, he'll have done us proud.
Personally, I'd much rather he stayed.
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kamara has 2 1/4 years yet.
Yes but this summer is two years you can risk kamara having 12 months left on his contract and walk for free
As an alternative point of view - in his three seasons with us Kamara has only appeared in 24/20/17 league games for us...
Tbf though he did pick up a significant knee injury which was a major reason for that..
He'd still have good value with 12 months left. And if he did go for free in 2027, he'll have done us proud.
Personally, I'd much rather he stayed.
Agree if FFP wasnt a factor for us
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The ideal combo might be Barrenechea and Kamara: maybe we should cut our losses on Onana ...
.... just putting it out there.
We still have Bogarde, and there are one or two in the academy pushing too.
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The ideal combo might be Barrenechea and Kamara: maybe we should cut our losses on Onana ...
.... just putting it out there.
We still have Bogarde, and there are one or two in the academy pushing too.
Be quite a big loss though, cannot see anyone offering close to what we paid for Onana.
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The ideal combo might be Barrenechea and Kamara: maybe we should cut our losses on Onana ...
.... just putting it out there.
We still have Bogarde, and there are one or two in the academy pushing too.
Be quite a big loss though, cannot see anyone offering close to what we paid for Onana.
Me neither. If it wasn't for his injury record I'd offer him to Man U in exchange for Rashdord, they need bodies in and he's young enough to appeal to them. Unless he finishes the season really strongly, in which case we keep him and keep developing or we may have to wait another season keeping the squad strong, he'll give Unai options.
Either way I really want to see Barrenechea back next season.
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Ten Haag wanted him but I doubt he's the midfield technician Amorim wants.
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The ideal combo might be Barrenechea and Kamara: maybe we should cut our losses on Onana ...
.... just putting it out there.
We still have Bogarde, and there are one or two in the academy pushing too.
I agree simply because how onana appears to be made of glass. For a young big lad he struggles to remain fit. we over paid for him and would make a loss on him if we tried to cash om him now unfortunately
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The ideal combo might be Barrenechea and Kamara: maybe we should cut our losses on Onana ...
.... just putting it out there.
We still have Bogarde, and there are one or two in the academy pushing too.
I agree simply because how onana appears to be made of glass. For a young big lad he struggles to remain fit. we over paid for him and would make a loss on him if we tried to cash om him now unfortunately
Why don’t you get the stats out that you didn’t understand last time? It’s easier when you prove yourself wrong, rather than others having to do it.
His history does not point towards a particularly injury prone player, he’s just been unlucky this season.
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🚨 Aston Villa want to see Enzo Barrenechea in pre-season before deciding his future. Valencia have positioned themselves for a second loan.
@sanchis14
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There's a queue developing of Spanish clubs who want to sign him including Atletico. I hope we keep him as he could be the ideal replacement in the future for SJM and those boots aren't easily filled. He's going to be a top player, I just hope it's with us.
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From the little I saw of him last pre season, he didn't seem like a SJM type player at all.
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Talking of Bogarde what has happened to him?
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Talking of Bogarde what has happened to him?
Might have been slightly blamed for Palace league debacle as that was his last appearance on the pitch. But also we had players back and only so much room on the bench.
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I'd like to keep this guy but another year on loan could work too. No point bringing him back to be a squad player if he can be playing 90 minutes a week at a decent level.
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Maybe being groomed to replace Booba if he doesn't sign
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I really hope this guy stays; not because I know his game intimately, but I'd love an Argentinian 'fixer' to play for us in midfield. Even if Bouba, Onana and McGinn are still with us next season, we're bound to get injuries and this guy may well be the go-to player.
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I really hope this guy stays; not because I know his game intimately, but I'd love an Argentinian 'fixer' to play for us in midfield. Even if Bouba, Onana and McGinn are still with us next season, we're bound to get injuries and this guy may well be the go-to player.
That's my view too. Plus he's called Enzo.
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He's had a really good season for Valencia.
Loan would be a bit of a waste when we could either reintegrate him into the squad or sell him to someone else for 15-20m.
On the fringes of the Argentine squad currently so his value will be good in 12 months if he plays at the World Cup.
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He's a good player looks like he's done well at Valencia.
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Probably their Player of the Season.
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Well if he is then he's instantly worth £20m+.
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Called up to the full squad by Argentina. I seriously hope we get to see him play for us next season.
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Called up to the full squad by Argentina. I seriously hope we get to see him play for us next season.
definitely
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He’s the sort of player that if we hadn’t of signed him, and he was doing what he’s doing in Valencia we’d be all over it and getting super excited about signing him
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He's of an age now where he needs to show if he can perform in the Premier League. Maybe we could loan him to a feeder-club like Brentford.
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I hope he breaks through with us. I think he could be useful in the Europa.
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Monchi: “Barrenechea has had a great season at Valencia & is a player followed by many clubs. We have to see what Unai Emery wants, since we have many players in that position.”
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Doesn't sound like he'll be here in September, to me.
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Sounds like he is available at the right price. Let the bidding commence…….
I have a feeling he might be a bit too slow for this league, baseless to be fair!
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Nothing like showing your cards Monchi!
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Sounds like he is available at the right price. Let the bidding commence…….
I have a feeling he might be a bit too slow for this league, baseless to be fair!
That’s what people throw at Tielemans, too.
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I'm not sure I'd read that the same way as the rest of you. Feels like a statement of fact to me. We have Tielemans, Onana, Barkley and Kamara with Bogarde and McGinn as extra options. That's plenty of depth for those 2 positions so Emery needs to decide if he's happy with what he's got of if he'd like to mix it up a bit.
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I guess being able to sell players for a decent fee without impacting the first team is a good thing, long term, but it feels a bit disappointing when they're players like this who seem to be having a good season and have loads of potential.
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Keep Barkley, sell Enzo.
Keep Enzo, sell Barkley
One brings in money, retaining a known quantity who is only gong to depreciate in value.
The other brings in less money, but lets us keep a player (probablyb on lower wages), with untapped potential who, with a season of coaching by Unai should be worth even more next summer should we need to sell; or might have become a really important player in our set up.
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I guess being able to sell players for a decent fee without impacting the first team is a good thing, long term, but it feels a bit disappointing when they're players like this who seem to be having a good season and have loads of potential.
Yep, and with Onana and Kamara seemingly getting injured through the long seasons we have and Barkley beginning to show a lack of pace Barrenechea should be an obvious squad-member ...
... unless the future resides with Bogarde, Borland and Hemmings?
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Keep Barkley, sell Enzo.
Keep Enzo, sell Barkley
One brings in money, retaining a known quantity who is only gong to depreciate in value.
The other brings in less money, but lets us keep a player (probablyb on lower wages), with untapped potential who, with a season of coaching by Unai should be worth even more next summer should we need to sell; or might have become a really important player in our set up.
Not sure I agree with the second part of that.
By “lower fee”, realistically it is “no fee”. Nobody is giving us significant money for an aging Ross Barkley who’ll be entering the last year of his contract.
I’d also wonder, if he was playing for Luton beforehand, about if he was a particularly high earner. I’d suspect he isn’t in the grand scheme of things.
I dunno, if it turns out The Barron is going straight in to our first team then it goes without saying that we should keep him. But if he’s 24 and isn’t slotting straight in then I’d wonder if he’s ever going to be more than a squad player (ie a role Barkley already fills reasonably well) if our aim is to be competing at the top end of the table
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Keep Barkley, sell Enzo.
Keep Enzo, sell Barkley
One brings in money, retaining a known quantity who is only gong to depreciate in value.
The other brings in less money, but lets us keep a player (probablyb on lower wages), with untapped potential who, with a season of coaching by Unai should be worth even more next summer should we need to sell; or might have become a really important player in our set up.
Not sure I agree with the second part of that.
By “lower fee”, realistically it is “no fee”. Nobody is giving us significant money for an aging Ross Barkley who’ll be entering the last year of his contract.
I’d also wonder, if he was playing for Luton beforehand, about if he was a particularly high earner. I’d suspect he isn’t in the grand scheme of things.
I dunno, if it turns out The Barron is going straight in to our first team then it goes without saying that we should keep him. But if he’s 24 and isn’t slotting straight in then I’d wonder if he’s ever going to be more than a squad player (ie a role Barkley already fills reasonably well) if our aim is to be competing at the top end of the table
We're never absolutely sure of salaries but the best estimates I can find online are Barkley on £60k p/w and Barron on £15k p/w - that's a difference of nearly £2.5m for the year.
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I dunno, if it turns out The Barron is going straight in to our first team then it goes without saying that we should keep him. But if he’s 24 and isn’t slotting straight in then I’d wonder if he’s ever going to be more than a squad player (ie a role Barkley already fills reasonably well) if our aim is to be competing at the top end of the table
I'd like to at least have him for pre season to give him a chance. Maybe like Ned last season, stays to January then on loan with a view to sale. I suppose the question is will he be worth more now after a full season, playing regularly, or after half a season on our bench?
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I guess being able to sell players for a decent fee without impacting the first team is a good thing, long term, but it feels a bit disappointing when they're players like this who seem to be having a good season and have loads of potential.
Yep, and with Onana and Kamara seemingly getting injured through the long seasons we have and Barkley beginning to show a lack of pace Barrenechea should be an obvious squad-member ...
... unless the future resides with Bogarde, Borland and Hemmings?
The future resides in us having minimal home-grown talent coming through to the first team. We want to be challenging at the top and regularly selling youth is part of that aim.
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I dunno, if it turns out The Barron is going straight in to our first team then it goes without saying that we should keep him. But if he’s 24 and isn’t slotting straight in then I’d wonder if he’s ever going to be more than a squad player (ie a role Barkley already fills reasonably well) if our aim is to be competing at the top end of the table
I'd like to at least have him for pre season to give him a chance. Maybe like Ned last season, stays to January then on loan with a view to sale. I suppose the question is will he be worth more now after a full season, playing regularly, or after half a season on our bench?
Yeah, I suppose that's what I mean. How likely he is to make an impact on our first team is a huge factor. If he's just coming in to play the odd game, like Barkley is right now really, then I'd rather just sell him. At 24 he's likely to be as good as he's going to be, or near enough. £25m will be more use to us than spending our wage budget on a load of players who fill a gap for a dozen games a season but that's about it.
If he is good enough to improve the first team, that's a different conversation :)
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Yeah but how do you find-out unless you keep him?
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If we sell him this summer then his peak value is now. Or at least before he has a pre-season with us and we let the market know he hasn’t made the grade.
I’d love it if he is actually great and we keep him though.
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I watched a few Valencia games over the last few months & whilst he's technically & physically very good, I'm not sure he's got the mobility for the Premier League.
He's a better option that Barkley, who despite the fact he could cover all midfields positions, seems to have lost the ability to run.
I suspect it will be a case of, will he replace one of Kamara, Onana, Tielemans & McGinn who are all ahead of him, or do we cash in & use the money elsewhere?
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I guess being able to sell players for a decent fee without impacting the first team is a good thing, long term, but it feels a bit disappointing when they're players like this who seem to be having a good season and have loads of potential.
Yep, and with Onana and Kamara seemingly getting injured through the long seasons we have and Barkley beginning to show a lack of pace Barrenechea should be an obvious squad-member ...
... unless the future resides with Bogarde, Borland and Hemmings?
The future resides in us having minimal home-grown talent coming through to the first team. We want to be challenging at the top and regularly selling youth is part of that aim.
Well, I'd say it's a blend: we have some homegrown already in the squad, and Emery has a bit of history in bringing in homegrown talent. Equally, young talent can raise funds (Chuky and Kellyman being the obvious examples): I'm sure we'll be selling a few of the youngsters this summer.
At the moment it appears that the challenge is not PSR (which would necessitate maximising player-sales) but wages-to-rev ratios (requiring wages-management): young players will typically be on lower wages than experienced buy-ins.
So's it a mixed approach that's required.
Re Barrenechea, I've no idea whether he's good enough but he's had lots of games in the Italian and Spanish leagues and therefore seems to have some pedigree.
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He's been called up the the international squad too, I think?
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Yes, but so has Goodday so it's no huge marker of quality. I mean, when did Argentina last win anything?
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I’d say the main factor on whether we bring him in or sell him is Bogarde not Barkley. Bogarde’s best position in my view is the deep lying cm, but as we’ve seen he’s versatile enough to play centre back or full back. Though he struggled a bit in some earlier premier league and CL games, he was looking really good in the later games he played.
I’d say if Barklay is the short term cover for Kamara, Bogarde is the long term.
Doesn’t really leave much room for Enzo.
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So if he did leave for say £25m, would he be in our top 10 sales ever, without ever playing for us?
Jack, Benteke, Milner, Duggie, Duran, Diabi. Any more?
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I think your list would include all our most expensive players transferred.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/aston-villa/alletransfers/verein/405
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I think your list would include all our most expensive players transferred.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/aston-villa/alletransfers/verein/405
Bloody hell when you look at our sales over the years you can see why it’s been a struggle and God knows what would have happened if we hadn’t hit £100m for Jack.
2020/21 was a particular low point - a paltry £2.7m for Scott Hogan to a club that had no money!
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It's Euros, so will be slightly less even than that paltry sum.
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That list of recent transfers out is shocking. Until this year we’ve barely ever sold anyone for anything. Masses of free transfers allowed to leave.
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Yeh we sold massive players like Carney Chukwuemeka, Omari Kellyman, Cameron Archer and Jayden Bidace for nothing. Do they not count?
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Yeh we sold massive players like Carney Chukwuemeka, Omari Kellyman, Cameron Archer and Jayden Bidace for nothing. Do they not count?
He’s talking about the years before Unai I think
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Yeh we sold massive players like Carney Chukwuemeka, Omari Kellyman, Cameron Archer and Jayden Bidace for nothing. Do they not count?
He’s talking about the years before Unai I think
With the line, "until this year" he isn't giving that impression.
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Yeh we sold massive players like Carney Chukwuemeka, Omari Kellyman, Cameron Archer and Jayden Bidace for nothing. Do they not count?
I meant this era. If you’d call the Unai years an era, of course.
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Our recruitment has been spot on since the start of the Unai era. Smith era wasn’t bad either.
There’s not that much deadwood compared to say, Man Utd. Haven’t studied this scientifically though.
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Yeh we sold massive players like Carney Chukwuemeka, Omari Kellyman, Cameron Archer and Jayden Bidace for nothing. Do they not count?
I meant this era. If you’d call the Unai years an era, of course.
I think in general our recruitment since NSWE came in has been excellent and there are far more hits than misses. What skews it a little is how many of those hits are still with us so are recognised as transfer profit. That a core of the squad is still players signed by Smith is testament to how well we've played the transfer market, as is the fact that our net spend over the last 5 years is one of the lowest in the league and yet, in that time, we've established about the strongest squad we've ever had in the premier league and become regulars in the top half of the league, despite the drag of 12 months with Gerrard.
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Our recruitment has been pretty good considering the handcuffs we have imposed on us financially. Imagine where we could be if those restrictions were removed? I genuinely think we’d be title contenders under Unai and NSWE.
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Our recruitment has been pretty good considering the handcuffs we have imposed on us financially. Imagine where we could be if those restrictions were removed? I genuinely think we’d be title contenders under Unai and NSWE.
True, maybe, but that would also mean everyone else currently above us spending more, Newcastle in particular.
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They may increase their spending, but still they have to get the right players. Man Utd seem to have a free hit, but all their big signings over the years have made them worse off. Spurs have spent a small fortune to be sat just above relegation.
Howe does seems quite savvy, I’m impressed with how he’s handled that job. They are quite a horrible side, but I’d certainly like some of their players.
Arsenal don’t seem too great in the market and I have idea how Slot would fair. The amount of players Chelsea purchase, sooner or later some will be good. Surely that will catch up with them?
We seem to finally after many, many years of stockpiling big earners at the end of their career have a very good plan which involves youngsters for the academy, potential which could go either way, as in making our squad or selling for profit and also having additions which improve the team.
Like Steve, I would love to see what they good do without the restrictions.
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Man Utd seem to get who they want because they're prepared to pay more than anyone else. That's a double edge sword though because you end up mercenaries who have a terrible attitude when things aren't going their way.
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Off to Benfica for a reported €15m.
We paid €9m for him and he's been out on loan do we haven't spent much in terms of wages. €6m profit?
Hope we've negotiated a decent sell-on clause.
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Assuming it’s true, I will say the side effect of the financial regs meaning you buy players who in all likelihood will never play for you is wholly unsatisfying.
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Hopefully a decent sell on as they'll probably shift him for £50m plus in a year or two.
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Assuming it’s true, I will say the side effect of the financial regs meaning you buy players who in all likelihood will never play for you is wholly unsatisfying.
Sadly, the way things stand, its pretty clear to me that making profits from player sales/trading is one of the "financial levers" we're going to have to use to help our financials.
Citeh and Chelsea have been doing this for years.
It wouldn't surprise me if (irrespective of PSR machinations,) NWSE have given Monchi & Co a player trading profit to be earned from buying and selling young players.
A sad indictment of the modern game
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Hopefully a decent sell on as they'll probably shift him for £50m plus in a year or two.
... which begs the question: why would we not play him in our team if he's a £50m+ potential-player?
The effing world's going mad.
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It would be nice to see one or two more youngsters stick around and get a chance instead of flogging them. I dont see the point in flogging the likes of Louie Barry for £3m. Just give them a place on the bench for the Europa League and a run in the League Cup games.
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Yes it has certainly lost some romance and excitement when seeing a new young player signed
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Yes it has certainly lost some romance and excitement when seeing a new young player signed
All day long Mole.
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It's really sad all this horse trading of young players. Makes me become more bored with the modern game.
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Who knows, last year we had clubs trading players between themselves for weird fees. This year it might be elaborate loans where we have to buy players back when the books look a bit better.
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Hopefully a decent sell on as they'll probably shift him for £50m plus in a year or two.
... which begs the question: why would we not play him in our team if he's a £50m+ potential-player?
The effing world's going mad.
I guess because we need the cash now. If we can sell him, plus a few more of the flotsum and jetsam we have then we may not need to sell a big name.
Loans with options to buy might be our only option this summer.
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Hopefully a decent sell on as they'll probably shift him for £50m plus in a year or two.
... which begs the question: why would we not play him in our team if he's a £50m+ potential-player?
The effing world's going mad.
Agreed too soon and too cheap
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I wonder if he sets the world alight for Benfica, we could buy him back under a similar arrangement to Philogene? That is to say, match another club’s offer minus our sell-on clause?
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Hopefully a decent sell on as they'll probably shift him for £50m plus in a year or two.
That's the risk all teams take when they sell a player. But he's more likely to turn into another Dendonker than into a £50m player.
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It would be nice to see one or two more youngsters stick around and get a chance instead of flogging them. I dont see the point in flogging the likes of Louie Barry for £3m. Just give them a place on the bench for the Europa League and a run in the League Cup games.
But then we are paying thier wages which now seems the biggest compliance factor for us.
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Seems chicken feed. We must be desperate to cobble together £20m or so to try and get in someone half-decent that can compete for a first team place. Soccer sucks.
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While I would have liked to have seen him play for Villa, Benfica or Sporting makes huge sense if we want to cash in on a future sale. Get a decent small profit now, put a big sell on percentage on him, and let them develop him. If he goes for £30-40m in the future somewhere, we make another few million. It's not the worst place for him to go.
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We buy someone for €8m, someone pays his wages for a year, we then sell him for $15m, with a sell on clause.
Let's spend the money on someone else with potential. Specifically in an area of the pitch where we need someone.
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These deals all look a bit pointless really, given the low figures involved.
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We buy someone for €8m, someone pays his wages for a year, we then sell him for $15m, with a sell on clause.
Let's spend the money on someone else with potential. Specifically in an area of the pitch where we need someone.
He's just had a standout season with Valencia, and is going to Benfica.
I'm not sure what better definition of 'potential' we're expecting to find, if that's not it.
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If he was a RW/RB then I’m sure the club would be happy to keep him in the squad. But sod’s law, he plays in the position where were are well stocked for players. Must mean that Kamara is unlikely to leave this season too.
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We buy someone for €8m, someone pays his wages for a year, we then sell him for $15m, with a sell on clause.
Let's spend the money on someone else with potential. Specifically in an area of the pitch where we need someone.
He's just had a standout season with Valencia, and is going to Benfica.
I'm not sure what better definition of 'potential' we're expecting to find, if that's not it.
We don't need players who won't play, our midfield is well stocked. Which defensive midfielder do we sell to make room for him?
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These deals all look a bit pointless really, given the low figures involved.
Yup, €15m with a very small sell-on clause. Great deal for Benfica.
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Really doesn't seem the kind of fee or the date we receive it that we are likely to 'need'. This seems more of a gamble than sending him on loan somewhere else or keeping him around the squad until January.
On the brightside I hope this is an indicator that Kamara is signing a contract renewal, we live in hope.
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These deals all look a bit pointless really, given the low figures involved.
Yup, €15m with a very small sell-on clause. Great deal for Benfica.
It’s about €8.5m on the plus side of the accounts. Haven’t heard what the sell-on clause is.
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These deals all look a bit pointless really, given the low figures involved.
Yup, €15m with a very small sell-on clause. Great deal for Benfica.
It’s about €8.5m on the plus side of the accounts. Haven’t heard what the sell-on clause is.
From what I'm reading, the fee was €12m with a big percentage of the sell-on clause. Benfica it appears have increased the fee but dramatically reduced our percentage. My guess would be 5-10% max.
EDIT: Depending where you read, there's one story from A Bola that is traditionally the sports daily closer to Benfica which is claiming it's Benfica who are offering less but offering us a higher percentage. That said the article hasn't been updated since yesterday morning.
News this morning is linking Forest with him.
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Isn't this just effectively another tranche of the fee for selling Dougie?
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Those Portuguese football tabloids are presumably as reliable as the Spanish ones and the "Give Me Football"/"Caught Offside" websites - full of shite and invention.
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All I can say, is I trust our management team to be doing the right thing by the club, just like when they had to wheel and deal and we lost Dougie last season.
It is what it is, and if they feel 15m euros and whatever add-ons is better to our overall budget than a central midfielder that they have seen close up in training/pre-season tours and then presumably closely monitored his performances at Valencia, then I'm happy to go with that.
If it's the difference in them being able to strengthen another area in the squad that we are short in or not, then I'm happy to go with that.
If it points to Kamara not going anywhere, then I'm very happy to go with that.
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^ yeah, that feels about right.
And as someone said up-thread, if we'd never heard of Barrenechea before and the circa £8m profit had just been part of the DL transfer last summer, that starts to get towards the sort of figure people would have wanted for him.
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Those Portuguese football tabloids are presumably as reliable as the Spanish ones and the "Give Me Football"/"Caught Offside" websites - full of shite and invention.
Haha! The three big clubs each have strong links to one of the three football dailies, just as Real have with Marca. Beyond the club's internal communication, the chosen daily is a key outlet with journalists having very strong links to the club; think Percy or Law have with us. It's why I question Record link reporting the deal when it's the Sporting preference instead of A Bola which is second home to Benfica.
A Bola is the first to mention the Forest interest, where did that come from?
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I see Arsenal are signing Mosquera from Valencia for about £13m, I only mention it as it appears from a brief look that he was the star of the team last year, so I suppose that rather influences the Barra fee?
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This one feels so bad I don’t even know what he looks like. A sad indictment of these deals.
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I'd feel less if he still had that ridiculous haircut. He doesn't.
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This one feels so bad I don’t even know what he looks like.
Imagine a tougher looking version of Jim Carrey in Dumb and Dumber, and you're close enough.
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We buy someone for €8m, someone pays his wages for a year, we then sell him for $15m, with a sell on clause.
Let's spend the money on someone else with potential. Specifically in an area of the pitch where we need someone.
He's just had a standout season with Valencia, and is going to Benfica.
I'm not sure what better definition of 'potential' we're expecting to find, if that's not it.
We don't need players who won't play, our midfield is well stocked. Which defensive midfielder do we sell to make room for him?
That may be the case, I am just pointing out that you said 'players with potential', implying he doesn't have it, and if this guy doesn't have that, then I don't know what we're expected to find.
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We buy someone for €8m, someone pays his wages for a year, we then sell him for $15m, with a sell on clause.
Let's spend the money on someone else with potential. Specifically in an area of the pitch where we need someone.
He's just had a standout season with Valencia, and is going to Benfica.
I'm not sure what better definition of 'potential' we're expecting to find, if that's not it.
We don't need players who won't play, our midfield is well stocked. Which defensive midfielder do we sell to make room for him?
That may be the case, I am just pointing out that you said 'players with potential', implying he doesn't have it, and if this guy doesn't have that, then I don't know what we're expected to find.
I said let's spend the money on others with potential, in a area of the pitch where we need players. How you interpret that is up to you.
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🚨 Aston Villa keep a 30% sell-on clause for Enzo Barrenechea.
@D_pico_
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🚨 Aston Villa keep a 30% sell-on clause for Enzo Barrenechea.
@D_pico_
Looks like he's a journalist from Marca so should be true especially as you can see how he found out:
Enzo Barrenechea to @benfica
. 15 M fixed and Villa keeps 30% of future sales. As a sign of a good relationship and after the more than fruitful loan at Valencia, @AVFCOfficial explained the conditions to @valenciacf in case they wanted to match them and the response was negative.
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Its ok making small profits on the sacrificial players (Dobbin, Illing Jr, Enzo, etc) and trying to claw back decent fees for
Donk - I doubt
Buendia
Moreno
Surely we are not that broke that we cannot buy a 1st team improver for the RB and RW positions
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🚨 Aston Villa keep a 30% sell-on clause for Enzo Barrenechea.
@D_pico_
Looks like he's a journalist from Marca so should be true especially as you can see how he found out:
Enzo Barrenechea to @benfica
. 15 M fixed and Villa keeps 30% of future sales. As a sign of a good relationship and after the more than fruitful loan at Valencia, @AVFCOfficial explained the conditions to @valenciacf in case they wanted to match them and the response was negative.
That feels more like it, and we'll pick up a nice £30m or so when Chelsea or PSG buy him in in a couple of years.
The gift that keeps on giving.
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🚨 Aston Villa keep a 30% sell-on clause for Enzo Barrenechea.
@D_pico_
Looks like he's a journalist from Marca so should be true especially as you can see how he found out:
Enzo Barrenechea to @benfica
. 15 M fixed and Villa keeps 30% of future sales. As a sign of a good relationship and after the more than fruitful loan at Valencia, @AVFCOfficial explained the conditions to @valenciacf in case they wanted to match them and the response was negative.
That feels more like it, and we'll pick up a nice £30m or so when Chelsea or PSG buy him in in a couple of years.
The gift that keeps on giving.
I think I'd like to keep a potential £90m player, Lee! but I get your point.
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🚨 Aston Villa keep a 30% sell-on clause for Enzo Barrenechea.
@D_pico_
Looks like he's a journalist from Marca so should be true especially as you can see how he found out:
Enzo Barrenechea to @benfica
. 15 M fixed and Villa keeps 30% of future sales. As a sign of a good relationship and after the more than fruitful loan at Valencia, @AVFCOfficial explained the conditions to @valenciacf in case they wanted to match them and the response was negative.
That feels more like it, and we'll pick up a nice £30m or so when Chelsea or PSG buy him in in a couple of years.
The gift that keeps on giving.
I think I'd like to keep a potential £90m player, Lee! but I get your point.
Yeah me too, but not bad going off a player that's not kicked a ball for us.
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Its ok making small profits on the sacrificial players (Dobbin, Illing Jr, Enzo, etc) and trying to claw back decent fees for
Donk - I doubt
Buendia
Moreno
Surely we are not that broke that we cannot buy a 1st team improver for the RB and RW positions
It’s not about being broke, we’re clearly not, but about the regulations that are spoken so much about.
Buying someone better than Cash and Bailey isn’t going to be for peanuts. As derided as they are.
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And not selling a first teamer….
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Possibly frees up a squad place for someone better as well.
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🚨🦅 Enzo Barrenechea to Benfica, here we go! Deal in place for €15m, loan with obligation to buy clause under certain conditions from Aston Villa.
Medical tests booked and contract until June 2030 for the midfielder.
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Loan? So we still haven't actually got any money this transfer window except KKH.
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We're clearly up against it on the wages.
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How high must his wages be? If we’re planning on doing any business we must be selling a pretty key player
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Isn't this just effectively another tranche of the fee for selling Dougie?
That's how I see it. As part of the Luiz deal, we acquired some "options", one of which is maturing. The other "option" looks like its valuation may be going backwards, however. Still, we will probably crystallise over €70 million from the Luiz deal - got to think that's decent business, especially given the season he's had.
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Isn't this just effectively another tranche of the fee for selling Dougie?
That's how I see it. As part of the Luiz deal, we acquired some "options", one of which is maturing. The other "option" looks like its valuation may be going backwards, however. Still, we will probably crystallise over €70 million from the Luiz deal - got to think that's decent business, especially given the season he's had.
I’m not sure I get those figures …. Widely reported that we got a bout £20m cash plus the two
Players valued at about £19m with illing jr being the more costly….we got stitched up on that deal
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You're right, it wasn't accurate, in that it didn't factor in the fees disbursed on Enzo and IJ.
We got €51m for Luiz. We paid €8m for Enzo, and €14m for IJ.
So that would put the "overall" fee at around €58m (51m plus the Enzo "profit") if IJ holds his value.
Still, not too shabby.
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Slightly different deal being reported here:
1. Barrenechea will be loaned with an option to buy, which may become mandatory if certain objectives are met.
2. Aston Villa will be entitled to a 30% capital gain on a future transfer up to certain amounts.
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Basically the same thing with different wording...'obligation to buy if certain circumstances are met' i.e. plays x number of games. With a sell-on clause.
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You're right, it wasn't accurate, in that it didn't factor in the fees disbursed on Enzo and IJ.
We got €51m for Luiz. We paid €8m for Enzo, and €14m for IJ.
So that would put the "overall" fee at around €58m (51m plus the Enzo "profit") if IJ holds his value.
Still, not too shabby.
Trying to fatten up Enzo and Iling-Junior seems a good plan, I-J is still only young so has still got a chance to improve, he might end up as our reserve left back if we get an offer for Digne.
The only pure PSR move was the Dobbin for Iroegbunam one, where Dobbin was never worth £10M, closer to £2M, so that will be a loss, when/if we sell him, or just try and rack up some loan fees for him.
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Basically the same thing with different wording...'obligation to buy if certain circumstances are met' i.e. plays x number of games. With a sell-on clause.
It was the limit on the sell-on clause that jumped out at me. I imagine/hope we still get 30% up to the limit and the limit is ridiculously high.
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Confirmed.
Enzo Barrenechea has joined Benfica. Obligation to buy worth €15m at end of season with #AVFC retaining a 30% sell-on.
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End of sodding season? Give me money NOW.
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I don’t really gets how that helps us, other than a modest impact on wages.
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I don’t really gets how that helps us, other than a modest impact on wages.
Maybe there’s a plan to cover the FFP and this deal is more long term.
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I don’t really gets how that helps us, other than a modest impact on wages.
It gets us €15m next season. That’s our whole business model now, right?
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I don’t really gets how that helps us, other than a modest impact on wages.
€3m loan fee apparently. No need to put ‘whoop-e-doo’ or anything, I know.
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I don’t really gets how that helps us, other than a modest impact on wages.
I'm guessing if getting that money in now actually was critical, we'd have found a way to make that happen, be it with Benfica or someone else.
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Yeah I suppose so.
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The club are clearly comfortable with the loans route or they would be holding out for later in window to see if they can make sales…
…these bloody rules
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I don’t really gets how that helps us, other than a modest impact on wages.
Relax Paul, the accountants will take it from here.
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Were not worried about cashflow, it says if he meets criteria then the obligation to pay activates at the end of the season, ie in this financial year.
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It's probably to be paid before 30th June and thus in this year.