Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on December 15, 2013, 09:36:52 AM
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Available Sunday 15.12.13 @3.20pm
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Predictably awful.
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Off out with the kids so I'll post early. The match and post match threads are the same every week now, and it's nothing to do with the opposition. We're being outplayed by all sides in the division not just the good ones. Yes, we've pulled out some really good results but the thought that possession of 35% or less per game was going to last as a method to success was never a good one.
We're now at the start of a worrying series of results where not only have we lost our best defender, we've lost our best forward for almost 3 months. The Benteke of last season is but a memory and the current version is a shadow of what was. The two situations combined with diminishing confidence could lead us to a December period similar to last season. It is very, very worrying. I'll support Lambert as much as can be but he needs to fix this quickly.
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Agree with TV.
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I think TV sums it up nicely. We've got some results, but we've played very poorly for a long while now and it doesn't show any sign of changing. We look a very poor side, 3 of the back four today were just dire. The only bright spot was Albrighton and Benteke was pathetic. It doesn't look like Lambert is doing anything to address any of this though.
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Dreadful - soft goals given away again - baker and luna dreadful - problems all over the pitch , defence , midfield and attack all woeful.
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We are currently the worst side in the league. A good start points-wise might save us, but we in for a very long winter. Again.
Lambert has enjoyed long-lasting support in modern terms but is on very thin ice.
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A bright opening 10 minutes then pretty much complete dross apart from Albrighton for the next 80.
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Can't wait to hear what the mumbler has to say about that, there can be no excuses, none.
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Depressing. Predicatable. I honestly can see me going to the grave before we ever see these buggers piss all over us on our own turf. There must be some real dross below us if we are still so high in the table.
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Poor, especially defensively. Had the wind sucked out of us with those stupid goals
Albrighton, Lowton, Westwood did ok I think
Pretty depressing really
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I swear to god, Villa Park is like a rehab centre for teams with absolutely shit form. Seems the only team it doesn't cure are Aston fucking Villa. There should be some sort of match fixing probe it's that predictable.
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we are the worse side at the moment in this league
it can not carry on
not sure If Lambert is good enough to get us out this mess , If we keep him its going to be another long slog .
Yes Vlaar will help a little but we need so much more .
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Dreadful.
Fed up (amongst other things) of us appearing way too nice…..we never competed for the 50 50's and look totally in awe of the worst Man Yoo team for years.
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I swear to god, Villa Park is like a rehab centre for teams with absolutely shit form. Seems the only team it doesn't cure are Aston fucking Villa. There should be some sort of match fixing probe it's that predictable.
They've lost two in 17. I wish we were in that absolutely shit form.
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A few of us just need to realise we're quite rubbish....
I do and it doesn't feel as bad as it used to. And when you're rubbish you can only get better....so here's to hope
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I swear to god, Villa Park is like a rehab centre for teams with absolutely shit form. Seems the only team it doesn't cure are Aston fucking Villa. There should be some sort of match fixing probe it's that predictable.
They've lost two in 17. I wish we were in that absolutely shit form.
Surely they've lost to at least three I can think of - Albion, Everton, Newcastle?
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Expected an awful 0-3 loss and it happened. :(
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A bright opening 10 minutes then pretty much complete dross apart from Albrighton for the next 80.
Agreed. Man Utd won't have any easier games this season. We are an extremely poor footballing side. Mid-table? Bottom-half is a far more accurate definition.
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So we just got the result that most people predicted and yet my prediction is that it will somehow become the straw that broke the camel's back for many of exactly the same people who predicted it!
Off to do some work now, I'll come back and read the inevitable Lambert Out thread before commenting again.
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I swear to god, Villa Park is like a rehab centre for teams with absolutely shit form. Seems the only team it doesn't cure are Aston fucking Villa. There should be some sort of match fixing probe it's that predictable.
They've lost two in 17. I wish we were in that absolutely shit form.
And yet still find themselves mid-table. Man United usually wouldn't settle for the McLeish play-for-the-draw style, just as we didn't.
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It's not the defeat, as much as the fact that we are consistently awful and there doesn't appear to be anything change that. Even with Delph and Vlaar we've still been awful, we've just been more solid.
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Once again I allowed myself to hope. At least we haven't answered any questions for Moyes, he'll have to waIt to play a team for that.
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Another home match without a goal,let alone a win. Says it all
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I swear to god, Villa Park is like a rehab centre for teams with absolutely shit form. Seems the only team it doesn't cure are Aston fucking Villa. There should be some sort of match fixing probe it's that predictable.
They've lost two in 17. I wish we were in that absolutely shit form.
Surely they've lost to at least three I can think of - Albion, Everton, Newcastle?
Sorry, 2 of the last 16.
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The five game unbeaten run we had was more luck than judgement. The warning signs were there. You cannot play that poorly and keep on picking up results, particularly when you lose a key player. We've been convincingly beaten in the last two games. In truth Southampton probably should have turned us over too, but somehow with less than 30% possession and 3 shots on target, we won a game 3-2.
Our lucks run out now. This is the result of Lambert failing to identify and act on problems we've had pretty much the whole of this season so far. Ball retention is dire. No clear system. Many of the players aren't good enough. Vlaar has been a key player for us, but he's a player known for having a questionnable injury record. You have to accept that he's going to miss a month or two here and there each season. That we're so poor without him is down to Lambert.
I don't think Lambert has any nous at all. He's got to get a better team around him, or he'll end up getting turfed out eventually.
Make no mistakes though. We are fighting for survival again. We've seen in the last two seasons how missing key players can effect us.
There's too many players not pulling their weight, or simply not good enough. If we don't have a good January we'll struggle again.
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I swear to god, Villa Park is like a rehab centre for teams with absolutely shit form. Seems the only team it doesn't cure are Aston fucking Villa. There should be some sort of match fixing probe it's that predictable.
They've lost two in 17. I wish we were in that absolutely shit form.
Their last two, to be fair. Which is kind of what form means...
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A few of us just need to realise we're quite rubbish....
I do and it doesn't feel as bad as it used to. And when you're rubbish you can only get better....so here's to hope
Im just worried that all the points we got (and didnt quite deserve), might convince the man with the money that we dont need to go shopping in January.
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Our only player to make a positive impression today was Marc Albrighton, who couldn't get in the side last season and had been farmed out on loan this season. Which is great for him and I'm pleased to see him doing well but it suggests there's not a whole lot of quality, form or confidence in our first team squad. But the most important of those is quality: even if they were playing close to their best, it's questionable whether some of that squad are good enough.
I think Randy needs to have a good long think about whether the manager is getting the most out of the available resources, and whether those resources are sufficient in the first place.
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Even when we were shipping goals this time last year there was the feeling that if we could dig in and last the season out there were some really good youngsters in the squad with a big future at the club.
There has been little evidence of potential this last few months. It's no longer the hope that kills, it's the ineptitude.
The way out of the bottom of this particular barrel is for Lambert to manage Benteke out of his torpor. If he doesn't - or can't - it's not going to go well for either the manager or the club.
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Embarassing just like last week thats 5 goals conceded all from shit defending in 2 games.It's EXACTLY like last season poor goals from poor defending.Benteke is playing poorly but it's clear to me the opposition of figured our tactics out are doubling up on him not even letting him flick the ball on.
Midfield lacks quality when Delph is not there not enough pace or strength.
Albrighton by far our best player today and what does that say ..
By my quick Calculations they brought on Young who they paid more for than our 11 out today ..that's the problem.Not enough investment ,cheap purchases on cheap wages to counteract the 150k ish we are still paying Hutton ,Given and Ireland !!!
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This really isn't about today, because that was just so predictable, but our problem is too many players who aren't good enough.
The problem with the "young, hungry players" thing is that too many people assume it's just like planting a seed - you stick it under the soil, wait a few months, and something starts growing.
It isn't. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it.
The players have to have the promise to start with, and I'm afraid too many of ours do not. What on earth did he see, for example, in Luna? I thought Joe Bennett was abysmal last year, but Luna is every bit as bad.
KEA is an all fart and no shit player, swaggers around like he's some sort of mercurial creator, but almost always delivers the square root of feck all.
Defensively we have at times been more solid than last season but in terms of the bigger picture, we're really no better, as the middle and the front seem to have got worse.
I also think we need to be careful about this "we're currently mid table" thing, because unless we start to pick up some form and play a bit, we won't be there for very long.
We can play stonkingly average sides and play like we're some sort of plucky League One outfit out for a cup upset, we're that piss poor at times.
I've supported Lambert totally from the off, but now I am very worried. He has to get it sorted out, and quick. I don't want to hear him telling us how brilliant we are after every match - an opinion which usually seems directly the contrary to the truth - I want to actually see some consistent signs of improvement in the way we play, because the general trend seems to be that we're getting worse.
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I swear to god, Villa Park is like a rehab centre for teams with absolutely shit form. Seems the only team it doesn't cure are Aston fucking Villa. There should be some sort of match fixing probe it's that predictable.
They've lost two in 17. I wish we were in that absolutely shit form.
Their last two, to be fair. Which is kind of what form means...
Again they've not looked convincing, even in games they've won. They weren't exactly top drawer today either, but we made it so comfortable. Had they kept their foot on the gas we'd all be having the same pain we had after Chelsea tonked us 8-0.
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The most predictable result and scoreline in the history of sport.
It tells us nothing we don't already know.
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This really isn't about today, because that was just so predictable, but our problem is too many players who aren't good enough.
The problem with the "young, hungry players" thing is that too many people assume it's just like planting a seed - you stick it under the soil, wait a few months, and something starts growing.
It isn't. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it.
Exactly right. It's as if all that's required is patience, when in reality what's required is quality, skill, and plenty of money.
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I swear to god, Villa Park is like a rehab centre for teams with absolutely shit form. Seems the only team it doesn't cure are Aston fucking Villa. There should be some sort of match fixing probe it's that predictable.
They've lost two in 17. I wish we were in that absolutely shit form.
Their last two, to be fair. Which is kind of what form means...
Again they've not looked convincing, even in games they've won. They weren't exactly top drawer today either, but we made it so comfortable. Had they kept their foot on the gas we'd all be having the same pain we had after Chelsea tonked us 8-0.
It's also kind of missing the point.
It's not as if we've been impressive up till today. We haven't. We've looked extremely unconvincing since the first week of the season, even if we have ground out some results here and there.
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If he says we were brilliant, I'll be genuinely worried that he's completely delusional.
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So we just got the result that most people predicted and yet my prediction is that it will somehow become the straw that broke the camel's back for many of exactly the same people who predicted it!
Off to do some work now,
Working on the Lord's Day! Tut tut!
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I swear to god, Villa Park is like a rehab centre for teams with absolutely shit form. Seems the only team it doesn't cure are Aston fucking Villa. There should be some sort of match fixing probe it's that predictable.
They've lost two in 17. I wish we were in that absolutely shit form.
Their last two, to be fair. Which is kind of what form means...
Again they've not looked convincing, even in games they've won. They weren't exactly top drawer today either, but we made it so comfortable. Had they kept their foot on the gas we'd all be having the same pain we had after Chelsea tonked us 8-0.
It's also kind of missing the point.
It's not as if we've been impressive up till today. We haven't. We've looked extremely unconvincing since the first week of the season, even if we have ground out some results here and there.
And that in essence is the issue, we've been playing really poorly for a long time now.
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Another home match without a goal,let alone a win. Says it all
In front of a sellout too. The home fans are being ripped off big style.
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This really isn't about today, because that was just so predictable, but our problem is too many players who aren't good enough.
The problem with the "young, hungry players" thing is that too many people assume it's just like planting a seed - you stick it under the soil, wait a few months, and something starts growing.
It isn't. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it.
Exactly right. It's as if all that's required is patience, when in reality what's required is quality, skill, and plenty of money.
And a manager that knows what he's doing.
The players have to take a lot of the responsibility but they're not as bad as some are making out.
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Danny Baker's tortuous tweet about an analogy between Bob Dylan's backing band and Lambert's Lions just reveals he's a twat with no musical taste and no understanding of football.
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The frustrating thing is, it's not like we need a whole new team. We just need maybe two or three solid pros with real quality in key positions, and preferably some experience so that when things start getting hairy, the younger players have someone to look to and help them retain their composure. If we had a quicker, more physically dominant player in KEA's spot (with Westwood playing further forward), a solid left-back with good positional sense and another centre half in Vlaar's mould, we'd look miles better.
I'm all for signing and developing young players, but you can't do that alone. You have to strike a balance, and that means you need proven quality too.
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Baker and Luna are just really poor players.
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Great to see Albrighton have such a good game, the rest of them, without exception, were rubbish.
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Has nothing to do with the point I was making. I haven't said we weren't shit today, or that we haven't been for a while. I was pointing out that a team that has lost 2 of 15 before they play us aren't in absolutely shit form.
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Glad I didn't bother to go today. Predictable dross.
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Great to see Albrighton have such a good game, the rest of them, without exception, were rubbish.
Agreed.
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Dreadful, Albrighton apart most of the rest were inept...the 3 in the centre & Benteke were beyond inept....
Worst United side I've ever seen, if Luna had tried marking Valencia at any stage of the game it might have helped.
After the 3rd it became a training game, why not put 20 mins into Gardners legs?
Highlight of the game was seeing Sylla get a ball and look up, like there was any chance he would pass it forwards!
Does the ref get penalised for forgetting to pack his red card?
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What's frustrating is that people come on here after all of these crap performances and pour out bile, then by tomorrow the majority will revert back to their default 'it's not the manager's fault' stance.
After the Fulham game last week, I was talking to the missus and I said I wouldn't care if Lambert was sacked overnight. I haven't changed that opinion. All I can see is that the players are worse than they were last season, and it suggests to me that the manager hasn't got a clue what to do about it or he hasn't actually noticed.
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Has nothing to do with the point I was making. I haven't said we weren't shit today, or that we haven't been for a while. I was pointing out that a team that has lost 2 of 15 before they play us aren't in absolutely shit form.
Absolutely shit form relative to not just this season but both their abilities and their previous achievements. Villa Park has got to be a favourite for any teams low on confidence that aren't AVFC.
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Has nothing to do with the point I was making. I haven't said we weren't shit today, or that we haven't been for a while. I was pointing out that a team that has lost 2 of 15 before they play us aren't in absolutely shit form.
No but they are having their worst season in a long time. It's fair to say this isn't a vintage Man Utd.
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Far more embarrassing than the lack of quality, which is alarming and the lack of tactical nous which is ridiculous, is the seeming acceptance of "this is where we belong". Fuck off to that.
42,000 in to one of the finest grounds in the country, one of the proudest clubs in the history of the game. In the country's second city. Fuck right off. Show some ambition, invest in quality and do it now.
End the experiment now.
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The game we gave Chelsea at Stamford Bridge set a benchmark for how to approach battles with the top teams. In their faces (moreso than at Arsenal on the opening day), resolute and not afraid to have a go even when behind. That evaporated all too quickly against Liverpool in our next game and we've not rediscovered it since.
Today we huffed and puffed. The amount of times a player in midfield would do well to extricate himself from opponents before taking the ball on and losing it due to no one moving into space or passing into space without looking and losing possession was depressing to see.
Yanited, and all the good teams, have players who can anticipate the ball and predict the breaking ball. Our lot just don't seem to have the noggins to think. Equally we ball-watch and lose our men when defending i.e. Westwood for the second goal.
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And come to think of it, isn't it a bit ridiculous that as a club which now wants to do things on the tightest budget possible, we have a 5 or 6 million quid striker sitting on the bench regularly?
I mean, we're lacking quality in a number of positions. Last season, our best outfield player was a striker. So why spend so much of your very limited funds buying another one, when it's your midfield and defence that are struggling?
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Depressing. Predicatable. I honestly can see me going to the grave before we ever see these buggers piss all over us on our own turf. There must be some real dross below us if we are still so high in the table.
Bang on!
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Has nothing to do with the point I was making. I haven't said we weren't shit today, or that we haven't been for a while. I was pointing out that a team that has lost 2 of 15 before they play us aren't in absolutely shit form.
Obviously not but in terms of the press and their attitude to the Holy Utd. That constitutes shit form.
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Yes Marc was excellent I'm really pleased for him.
I honestly think that was one of the worst defensive performances of all-time from Baker though. What the hell was going on for that 2nd goal?
-965/10 for him. We've been unlucky with injuries this season. January's going to be key, if we lose Vlaar for any length of time, we could be in real trouble.
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Sorry but today as normal against the shite we roll over, but if Luna ever wears a villa shirt again, that player is a disgrace, Kea what t f and the managers answer to everything whether we are playing Man shite or Bradford is to put another forward on, tactical manager he is not and for the first time this season and since he has been here I want him out.
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On form we are the worst side in the league imo but form can change. Delph back next week is a plus. Thought Albrighton had a very good game but unfortunately our forwards are like statues at the moment. Lowton was an improvement on Bacuna. Played better than at Fulham but that's the end of the positives.
To be honest the result was predictable, I've made a good stab into my Xmas expenses backing United -1 today. 3.1 was crazy value considering our injuries and the quality gap between some of the individuals on both sides.
The left side of our defence was obliterated. I suggested pre-game Hutton should have been played there if we were content to hang someone out to dry. Any thought that Baker is good enough for this level or ever will be was extinguished today. Luna is a charlatan of epic proportions. Luna, Bennett, Stevens, Warnock, Shorey - our left back hall of shame. Neither Baker or Luna should be in the squad come January. Sylla is another one that looks like he has won a competition to play at the club. Kea is hopeless, Westwood is lost. Up front we have nothing just forwards with pathetic movement and worse first touches.
Batten down the hatches lads, this could get a lot worse before it gets better.
A final moan, thought Gardner could have come on for the final minutes instead of Bacuna. Would have given the lad a boost.
With Gabby out and Weimann pointless would recommend Benteke and Kozak up front next week with Albrighton on left and Bacuna on right. Might have to play Kea with Westwood and move Delph to left back. Would prefer to have Alfie Moon from eastenders at left back than that chancer.
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Well.
There were those that claimed we shouldn't express concern when we've played woeful but won, apparently it didn't matter. But it seemed clear to a fair few that those few favorable (but against the run of play) results have masked what is becoming glaringly obvious. We're a VERY poor football team.
Again today the defence was dire. Baker & Luna were comical on the left, but to give them some credit there was NOTHING in front of them in midfield to stem the flow from Man U's. Clark and Lowton were, ok at best.
The midfield 3 were once again playing ridiculously narrow, and mainly prefer to pass sidewards or backwards rather than forwards. You could throw a duvet over the three of them at times which to me is one of our most obvious problems, but Lambert obviously thinks differently.
Albrighton was a rare bright spot in 'attack' and looked well up for it. I'm sure he'd be better off in a straight midfield 4 though.
Gabby, ran around a bit and made some woeful decisions with the ball, Benteke struggled to get anything worthy yet again
Non of the subs really impressed.
To sum up. Yet again we were predictably dour, lifeless and willing to roll over and have our bellies tickled at United's begging. Hopefully we'll still be around to get a chance to do it all again next season
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i.e. Westwood for the second goal.
Westwood has been failing to track midfield runners since he started playing for us. He has zero defensive instinct. Why Lambert keeps playing him in that position is a bit of a head-scratcher.
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Lambert is clueless. Anything else is just going over old ground, this man isn't good enough to manage the Villa.
Hutton is the best leftback at the club btw, as bad as he is.
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I haven't seen every game this season and I stooped watching after the 3rd today so this is perhaps an unfair assessment but I have not seen us play well this season. I said after the Southampton match that Lambert and the players deserve credit for turning results round from a similar period last season. Sadly it looks as though those who were being wary after that match and predicting that positive results from those type of performances couldn't be sustained were right. A couple of positive results in the next 3 games and things look good again but we look awful at the moment, as bad as last season.
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Off out with the kids so I'll post early. The match and post match threads are the same every week now, and it's nothing to do with the opposition. We're being outplayed by all sides in the division not just the good ones. Yes, we've pulled out some really good results but the thought that possession of 35% or less per game was going to last as a method to success was never a good one.
We're now at the start of a worrying series of results where not only have we lost our best defender, we've lost our best forward for almost 3 months. The Benteke of last season is but a memory and the current version is a shadow of what was. The two situations combined with diminishing confidence could lead us to a December period similar to last season. It is very, very worrying. I'll support Lambert as much as can be but he needs to fix this quickly.
I regret that I have to fully agree with this but there we are.
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Far more embarrassing than the lack of quality, which is alarming and the lack of tactical nous which is ridiculous, is the seeming acceptance of "this is where we belong". Fuck off to that.
42,000 in to one of the finest grounds in the country, one of the proudest clubs in the history of the game. In the country's second city. Fuck right off. Show some ambition, invest in quality and do it now.
End the experiment now.
8)
Agree by the way. We haven't been competing for far too long.
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Fucking awful.
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It's actually quite amazing when you think about it that we're still in the league and mid table with some of performances we've seen over the last few years. In terms of quality, the premier league has gone down the toilet. There are so many poor sides.
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Has nothing to do with the point I was making. I haven't said we weren't shit today, or that we haven't been for a while. I was pointing out that a team that has lost 2 of 15 before they play us aren't in absolutely shit form.
Obviously not but in terms of the press and their attitude to the Holy Utd. That constitutes shit form.
They were one place above us but you wouldn't have thought so today.
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I don't think a hungover parks player could have defended as badly as Baker did for their second. It was utterly abysmal.
I'm just bored of it now. For the first time I'm probably in the "Lambert Out" camp. I hope I'm just being over the top after a bad defeat but I really can't see where the improvements are going to come from.
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Jesus Christ that was fuckin woeful. Just how long more do we have to put up with this crap?
We are a dreadful outfit from top to bottom. Lerner open your wallet or fuck off out of our club.
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Never mind lambert was proud of the way we kept going.
That's great Paul. That's really great.
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Never mind lambert was proud of the way we kept going.
That's great Paul. That's really great.
Did he actually say this?
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I'm not sure how much comfort we should take from being mid-table at the moment. There was a point early in the McLeish season where we'd put decent points on the board early on and were "comfortably mid-table", but to many of us it was still clear that we were, actually, incredibly shit, massively dull, in something of a false position, and in for a relegation battle.
I've rarely seen a team with so many players who look completely out of their depth. Baker, Clark and Luna defend like schoolboys, they really are comically woeful. Losing both Okore and Vlaar has left us incredibly exposed at CB, and Benteke's loss of form means we may not have to the source of goals that got us out of trouble last season. It doesn't augur well.
But what pisses me of is just how easy it was for Man Yoo today, compared to , say, their visit to Cardiff who could and should have beaten them. They just turn up to VP expecting to stroll off with the points, and we inevitably accommodate them without too much of a fight. Lambert needs to start earning his money PDQ.
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There's no shame in losing to Man Utd but you have to compete at the very least. A team can have average players, be on a bad run, lose confidence but at least battle if you're struggling, show some heart, some desire.
Villa are so easy to play against and for me this is primarily down to the midfield who, apart from Delph, simply stand off and allow opponents to play. Watching Rooney spraying 40-50 yard balls out to the wing without anyone trying to close him down is what I find most inexcusable.
El Ahmadi and Westwood do not compete. They do not apply pressure on the opposition midfield so we consequently lose in midfield and find ourselves dominated there. Watching Villa allowing teams to bring the ball forward from their own half into the centre circle and into our half without a challenge is shocking.
It wasn't just today, it was the same at home against Sunderland, against Cardiff. The midfield (and the forwards) just retreat. It is sheer capitulation.
We have to get midfielders with bite, that snap into challenges, harry, harass. Westwood and El Ahmadi either can't or won't do it. They are at the heart of our problem. The poor defending and lack of a goal threat doesn't help but this awful, awful midfield has to be changed otherwise nothing will change.
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Baker, Luna , Kea have got to be on today's performance, in over 40 years of watching the Villa some of the most inept personnel to ever where a Villa shirt, but I will place money that the 3 of them start against Stoke, that is down to one persons inability to manage Aston Villa please walk away Mr. Lambert, the club needs something better.
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Lambert is clueless. Anything else is just going over old ground, this man isn't good enough to manage the Villa.
Hutton is the best leftback at the club btw, as bad as he is.
Doesn't say much for Luna or Bennett if a thuggish and limited Right Back is our best left back.
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I left at 0-3 drab mid field and no idea how to deffend again.
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One of the worst United teams that I can remember and we made them look like world beaters.
I've always defended Lambert but I'm loosing patience, we've got to many player that are too light weight.
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The villa 'team' that gets put out week after week is starting to resemble a rabble who get together on match day for a kickabout.
There is no rhyme or reason to our game, no pattern, no obvious tactics.
I am really, really worried about the next 3 games and the home games against Palace and Swansea are going to be massive, because of all the teams in this division, we are the ones who look like they could go into freefall.
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The midfield problem has been with us since he started and he has chosen to do fuck all about it.
Does this mean he does not recognise the problem? if so he should not be a manager.
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There's no shame in losing to Man Utd
There is a shame in losing. Especially losing at Villa Park and that includes Manu and anyone else for that matter. It's a shame that we , a big club in a big city, can not compete at this level. It is gathering evidence of years of mismanagement.
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There were a fair few moments in that game where we were completely and utterly atrocious, thankfully for the rest of the game we were just abject and turgid, though we did have a couple of moments of sheer ordinariness to raise the spirits for a while.
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There's no shame in losing to Man Utd
There is a shame in losing. Especially loving at Villa Park and that includes Manu and anyone else for that matter. It's a shame that we , a big club in a big city, can not compete at this level. It is gathering evidence of years of mismanagement.
Agreed, you can lose with dignity but we didn't do that. We lost with an absolutely horror of a display.
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We may get better results, if not performances, against the poorer teams with Vlaar and Delph back. That is all we can look forward to in this phase of the 'young, hungry' era. Depressing.
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There's no shame in losing to Man Utd
There is a shame in losing. Especially loving at Villa Park...
We were certainly shafted today, but it was a loveless fuck.
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Villa Park - The 'factory of sadness?' More like the factory of abject misery and terminal boredom. It says it all that at half time they announced a 'prize' of a 5 year season ticket and people booed. 4 out of 8 home games now where we haven't even scored FFS.
Albrighton did well, everyone else was garbage. I do have sympathy for KEA, Luna, Sylla, Baker though, it's not their fault that for some unfathomable reason Lambert thinks they are good enough to start for AVFC every week when it is obvious to everyone else they should be in the championship at best.
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The midfield problem has been with us since he started and he has chosen to do fuck all about it.
Does this mean he does not recognise the problem? if so he should not be a manager.
This
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That lot will never have an easier game they never even got out of first gear. We're a bloody mess sick to death of watching the same rubbish every week.
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That lot will never have an easier game they never even got out of first gear. We're a bloody mess sick to death of watching the same rubbish every week.
Well said .
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We were torn apart down the left for most of the game - nothing done. We are 2-0 down at half time - nothing done. Giggs is bossing the game spraying passes everywhere - nothing done. Baker is injured and needs treatment - nothing done... I could go on and on.
How do we see it and he can't.
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The most predictable result and scoreline in the history of sport.
It tells us nothing we don't already know.
that we are full of limp dicks
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This is beginning to look like 66-68 after Tony Hateley took his many goals elsewhere. The only bright spark today for us was Albrighton who showed no end of determination. There were no creditable displays from anyone else. Trouble is we expected this result didnt we?
Lambert is in imminent danger of becoming the new TSM so awful are our displays both individually and collectively.
He likes to play the hard man but if you are losing matches that doesnt work. He doesnt appear to have much tactical intelligence at all which doesnt augur well for what might be a relegation battle after Xmas.
The fans who had a lot of goodwill for this manager are starting to turn in droves... and who can blame them!
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I have to say that although the football on the pitch was utterly woeful, what's the point in selling out our magnificent stadium then sitting there in silence listening to them horrible twats making all the noise for 90 minutes?
Just what has happened to the atmosphere down there?
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We were torn apart down the left for most of the game - nothing done. We are 2-0 down at half time - nothing done. Giggs is bossing the game spraying passes everywhere - nothing done. Baker is injured and needs treatment - nothing done... I could go on and on.
How do we see it and he can't.
We could have brought Baker off and not replaced him with anyone and we would have probably been better off.
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Good point SamTheMouse about us having a 5 or 6 million pound player on the bench most games,dont forget though, that we also have a 18 million pound striker on loan at Fulham .The way things are going there is every chance he could start getting the goals to keep them up at our expense
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And come to think of it, isn't it a bit ridiculous that as a club which now wants to do things on the tightest budget possible, we have a 5 or 6 million quid striker sitting on the bench regularly?
I mean, we're lacking quality in a number of positions. Last season, our best outfield player was a striker. So why spend so much of your very limited funds buying another one, when it's your midfield and defence that are struggling?
good point
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And come to think of it, isn't it a bit ridiculous that as a club which now wants to do things on the tightest budget possible, we have a 5 or 6 million quid striker sitting on the bench regularly?
I mean, we're lacking quality in a number of positions. Last season, our best outfield player was a striker. So why spend so much of your very limited funds buying another one, when it's your midfield and defence that are struggling?
good point
Well indeed, this is no comment on Kozak but couldn't that money of been better spent elsewhere?
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I have to say that although the football on the pitch was utterly woeful, what's the point in selling out our magnificent stadium then sitting there in silence listening to them horrible twats making all the noise for 90 minutes?
Just what has happened to the atmosphere down there?
It's between us and West Ham for the most boring in the division title, hardly condusive to any kind of atmosphere.
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It's actually quite amazing when you think about it that we're still in the league and mid table with some of performances we've seen over the last few years. In terms of quality, the premier league has gone down the toilet. There are so many poor sides.
our one saving grace
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I have to say that although the football on the pitch was utterly woeful, what's the point in selling out our magnificent stadium then sitting there in silence listening to them horrible twats making all the noise for 90 minutes?
Just what has happened to the atmosphere down there?
Apathy rules!
Imagine the shit Ellis would have got if he was still in charge and we were churning out this shit every home match. It would be carnage. Lerner gets away with it scot free though for some bizarre reason.
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God, that was bad.
Clueless all over the pitch , having a limited paper thin squad is coming home to roost .
Poor purchases for too many years is killing us.
Quite possibly the worst midfield 3 I have ever seen in a villa shirt .
Time to start asking questions about Mr Mumbles .
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I have to say that although the football on the pitch was utterly woeful, what's the point in selling out our magnificent stadium then sitting there in silence listening to them horrible twats making all the noise for 90 minutes?
Just what has happened to the atmosphere down there?
Apathy rules!
Imagine the shit Ellis would have got if he was still in charge and we were churning out this shit every home match. It would be carnage. Lerner gets away with it scot free though for some bizarre reason.
Possibly because people don't know whether he is there at the game?
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I have to say that although the football on the pitch was utterly woeful, what's the point in selling out our magnificent stadium then sitting there in silence listening to them horrible twats making all the noise for 90 minutes?
Just what has happened to the atmosphere down there?
Did you notice they made a big point of that when attendance was announced by clapping and singing " they all come to see united"?
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I haven't looked at the fixtures, I know Palace is up next at home. Who do we have next week?
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We were torn apart down the left for most of the game - nothing done. We are 2-0 down at half time - nothing done. Giggs is bossing the game spraying passes everywhere - nothing done. Baker is injured and needs treatment - nothing done... I could go on and on.
How do we see it and he can't.
We could have brought Baker off and not replaced him with anyone and we would have probably been better off.
And Luna.
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I haven't looked at the fixtures, I know Palace is up next at home. Who do we have next week?
Stoke.
I still think we'll win that one (although I dont think we'll beat Palace)
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Indeed.
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Indeed.
Seconded.
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On the positive side those of you who go on about stats we "won" the shots and shots on target by 17/6 to 14/4. So there you go it's not too bad.
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Those of you who moaned about the stats against Southampton being significant should notice that today we had more shots both on and off target than them today. So does this mean we were unlucky not to get a point? does it hell. All went well for 15 minutes then game over, no longer in it.
On drive back, collymore reckoned it's our lack of physical strength and bite in midfield that's the problem and I totally agree. We let the opposition play at Villa park. Letting Giggs and Rooney play long balls out to the right wing was criminal. We need to be pressing the ball much more and getting more tackles in. Also noticeable how much pressure out defenders were under due to pressure from their forwards.
We know we need someone with the technical ability to open up defenders but we really also need more energy and strength in midfield than we currently have. Can't see anybody in the wings who can do it at the moment.
Only bright point was albrighton, I have said before that he isn't up to it but that wasn't bad today.
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my friend from Moscow was watching the game and messaged me while it was on
your stadium is fantastic and deserves a better team than this
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I was down the pub yesterday with Spurs, Everton and Brighton supporters yesterday and they all reckoned we'd beat them today. I of course knew otherwise. Thats whats so depressing, we all know the reality and Villa were happy to oblige. If Man Utd lose their next league game to someone like Palace or whoever I honestly think .........I dunno, words fail me.
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Good point SamTheMouse about us having a 5 or 6 million pound player on the bench most games,dont forget though, that we also have a 18 million pound striker on loan at Fulham .The way things are going there is every chance he could start getting the goals to keep them up at our expense
and bowery whats the point in that lad
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On the positive side those of you who go on about stats we "won" the shots and shots on target by 17/6 to 14/4. So there you go it's not too bad.
LMAO
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On the positive side those of you who go on about stats we "won" the shots and shots on target by 17/6 to 14/4. So there you go it's not too bad.
We know what Mumbles thinks of stats... the only one that matters is the score...
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Plastics day out The Witton Upper today. Horrible.
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On drive back, collymore reckoned it's our lack of physical strength and bite in midfield that's the problem and I totally agree. We let the opposition play at Villa park. Letting Giggs and Rooney play long balls out to the right wing was criminal. We need to be pressing the ball much more and getting more tackles in.
SVC is right. Which is amazing when you think that we constantly play three in the middle of the park, and none of them are attacking midfielders in the traditional mould. As someone said on the match thread, you could chuck a duvet over all three of them most of the time - they just get in each other's way and provide very little in either a defensive or offensive sense. Teams play three in the middle in order to dominate the centre of the park and stifle the opposition, at the expense of natural width. I can't quite see what benefit we get out of it.
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Delph back for the Stoke game, maybe Vlaar ( not sure ) any news on Bennett?
Guuzan
Herd @ RB for me....
Vlaar
Clark
Bennett if fit ( I doubt it )
Gardner
Westwood
Delph
Albrighton
Benteke
Agbonlahor
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Delph back for the Stoke game, maybe Vlaar ( not sure ) any news on Bennett?
Guuzan
Herd @ RB for me....
Vlaar
Clark
Bennett if fit ( I doubt it )
Gardner
Westwood
Delph
Albrighton
Benteke
Agbonlahor
Gabbys suspended , Vlaar and Bennett i doubt will be back either .
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Wrong thread
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Delph back for the Stoke game, maybe Vlaar ( not sure ) any news on Bennett?
Guuzan
Herd @ RB for me....
Vlaar
Clark
Bennett if fit ( I doubt it )
Gardner
Westwood
Delph
Albrighton
Benteke
Agbonlahor
Gabbys suspended , Vlaar and Bennett i doubt will be back either .
Oh bollocks....Gabs is suspended!
I bet he goes for Benteke and Kozak thinking its "BIG" ole Stoke.
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@AntoniiioLuna: Shit match,sorry to the villa fans!!! Partido de mierda,perdón a los aficionaos del Villa!!!
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I was down the pub yesterday with Spurs, Everton and Brighton supporters yesterday and they all reckoned we'd beat them today. I of course knew otherwise. Thats whats so depressing, we all know the reality and Villa were happy to oblige. If Man Utd lose their next league game to someone like Palace or whoever I honestly think .........I dunno, words fail me.
Everyone knows United are there for the taking but as you say we were more than happy to stand off them and let them play. I watched Cardiff really get stuck into them and give them no time to play.
As much as I don't like Pulis he will go ballistic if Palace put in the display we did!
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@AntoniiioLuna: Shit match,sorry to the villa fans!!! Partido de mierda,perdón a los aficionaos del Villa!!!
oh fook off and enjoy your money
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@AntoniiioLuna: Shit match,sorry to the villa fans!!! Partido de mierda,perdón a los aficionaos del Villa!!!
At least he's honest
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Very nice of you Luna, now tell the Villa I will need no payment for this week as I was s$hit, no thought not.
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Speaking after the game, the Scot said: "We started better than we have in a number of weeks but we gifted them two goals. I can't fault the effort from the lads.
"We have to pick ourselves up and go again, it's important we bounce back."
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If we keep up the policies of the last few years, we will go eventually. Randy should sell up before it's too late, it's harder to bounce back than it was 30 years ago and it could cause irrepairable damage to our 'place' in English football (whilst the current money driven football culture persists in this country anyway).
Edit: In other words we could end up no better than the Albion/Wolves at this rate.
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We were shit. We've been shit for a long time. I can see us not winning again in December. The players don't know what they're doing. We don't know what we're doing.
Could anyone on here tell me what our tactics are? What is our game plan? Even Stoke have a game plan of 10 defenders. We have nothing.
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I would like to give you a small laugh to lighten the proceedings.
I did not go to the game today. I went yesterday.
The dementia kicked in and I forgot that the game had been moved.
First time in 67 years I have gone to Villa Park on the wrong day. Loads of times after the final whistle or three hours before kick off but never the wrong day.
The old sweats on here - Paulie, Hilts, and the rest are correct in their assessment of our problems. At some point in our recent history a decision was made to prioritize the balancing of the books. Cheap buys and low wages have been the policy and the result is that we have a team with at best unfulfilled potential.
This problem goes right to the very top of the club to Randy Lerner. In his defence he has taken some real financial stingers especially from MON and the drain on resources still continues with the likes of Given Hutton and Ireland sucking money out of the club as a result of massively extravagant contracts.
That being said however, Randy Lerner must make the decision of whether he wants to own a Premiership football club and accept that if he does it comes at a price and that price in this day and age is way above the bargain basement. There is no truer saying than You Get What You Pay For. The current Villa side is what we paid for.
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Clark W Griswold, you've cheered me up a little seeing your name. Not much but a little. Wheres the Tylenol? Hallelulah, holy shit.
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Very nice of you Luna, now tell the Villa I will need no payment for this week as I was s$hit, no thought not.
Do you ask not to be paid when you have a shit day at work?
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@AntoniiiioLuna : I was absolute wank , so much , I have taken a job at maintaining the Bull at the Bullring over Christmas and given up football.
would be more fitting
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Speaking after the game, the Scot said: "We started better than we have in a number of weeks but we gifted them two goals. I can't fault the effort from the lads.
"We have to pick ourselves up and go again, it's important we bounce back."
How original of the scot.
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Speaking after the game, the Scot said: "We started better than we have in a number of weeks but we gifted them two goals. I can't fault the effort from the lads.
"We have to pick ourselves up and go again, it's important we bounce back."
How original of the scot.
His interviews are as repetitive and as dull as the team he sends out that repeat the same errors.
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Speaking after the game, the Scot said: "We started better than we have in a number of weeks but we gifted them two goals. I can't fault the effort from the lads.
"We have to pick ourselves up and go again, it's important we bounce back."
The grumbles of Mr. Mumbles
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I would like to give you a small laugh to lighten the proceedings.
I did not go to the game today. I went yesterday.
The dementia kicked in and I forgot that the game had been moved.
First time in 67 years I have gone to Villa Park on the wrong day. Loads of times after the final whistle or three hours before kick off but never the wrong day.
The old sweats on here - Paulie, Hilts, and the rest are correct in their assessment of our problems. At some point in our recent history a decision was made to prioritize the balancing of the books. Cheap buys and low wages have been the policy and the result is that we have a team with at best unfulfilled potential.
This problem goes right to the very top of the club to Randy Lerner. In his defence he has taken some real financial stingers especially from MON and the drain on resources still continues with the likes of Given Hutton and Ireland sucking money out of the club as a result of massively extravagant contracts.
That being said however, Randy Lerner must make the decision of whether he wants to own a Premiership football club and accept that if he does it comes at a price and that price in this day and age is way above the bargain basement. There is no truer saying than You Get What You Pay For. The current Villa side is what we paid for.
Bang on.
So for me, no point in a manager change without a policy change.
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I blame the owner. I mean, if they had terminated his employment at the end of his 6 month probationary period (November 2012), we probably wouldn't be in this mess.
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Clark W Griswold, you've cheered me up a little seeing your name. Not much but a little. Wheres the Tylenol? Hallelulah, holy shit.
Yeah, i've only watched christmas vac once so far this month, i'm sure i'll end up watching it at least 2-3 more times yet, it seems to be on nearly every day or one channel or another.
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Just for once I would love to see Villa do something fresh and adventurous. Like Swansea, Southampton etc.
We still seem to be living in the 80's, having to appoint either someone with Villa connections or lower league British crap. Lets go out there and get in someone who has a CV of attractive football, a know how of Europe and the continental way.
Footballs changed over the last 10 years dramatically and Villa just stand there gathering dust.
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Just for once I would love to see Villa do something fresh and adventurous. Like Swansea, Southampton etc.
We still seem to be living in the 80's, having to appoint either someone with Villa connections or lower league British crap. Lets go out there and get in someone who has a CV of attractive football, a know how of Europe and the continental way.
Footballs changed over the last 10 years dramatically and Villa just stand there gathering dust.
Me too, I'm sure there must be other managers on the continent who would fancy a crack at the premier league.
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No PWS but I dont go on twitter pretending I give a shit
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But you're still going to buy your Tony Moon Tee-shirt though right?
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I think I will write up a template for any future post match comments - will save time
Something like "Present team members were of limited footballing ability and flattered to deceive with 15 minutes of decent play but this soon fell away - opposition scored from our throw-in".
The frightening thing is I believe these men are playing to their best abilities and it's not very good.
All I wanted was some joined-up football this season, nothing explosive, just some class.
My free pie was nice though.
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Oh so predictable.
We either get smashed to pieces or give up a usually unassailable lead against this lot at home. I'd gladly take if if you could appeal to the league to just have a 36 game fixture list and miss home and away v them out, maybe 35 given we've still got our annual drubbing coming up at Man. City in a few months.
And yet this season we've beaten Arsenal and Man.City, I accept Arsenal was first game and Man. City so much went our way in the 2nd half but still both those have better quality players than Man. United as reflected in the league table and we went toe to toe with them.
Today just had a depressing air about it right from kick off and this against a Man. United team in their worst form for 11 years and with half their team missing.
Seems to me we're cursed as after the Hernandez testimonial last year and those two goals from Macheda in the past, we now have that renowned prolific scorer Danny Welbeck score twice in 3 minutes to win the game and also that renowned dynamic attacking midfielder Tom Cleverly waltzing through our defence to score the 3rd.
Have I mentioned I hate this game?!
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Speaking after the game, the Scot said: "We started better than we have in a number of weeks but we gifted them two goals. I can't fault the effort from the lads.
"We have to pick ourselves up and go again, it's important we bounce back."
How original of the scot.
We cheered in the car and burst out laughing
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There were only two positives today; Albrighton had a good game and the Plastics only scored three.
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I'm sick of us being the Washington Generals to those fuckers!
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But you're still going to buy your Tony Moon Tee-shirt though right?
If he didn't have a "funny" song he would be booed off every week!
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The mancs did make me smile with the "we are staying up" chants...
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I turned off after 20mins and went to tesco to do the Christmas booze shopping. Made me feel much better, and will help me get over another disgraceful episode in Villa's history. It's getting to that point where all I have is hope for something resembling a good performance, it's absolutely terrible. I took my nephew to the sunderland game two weeks ago as I am trying to hook him into the villa as his club, I think I might get a visit from child protection services on this evidence.
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No PWS but I dont go on twitter pretending I give a shit
How do you know he doesn't give a shit?
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@MatKendrick: Chris Herd missed today's match because of a facial injury sustained in training #avfc
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Ack fuck that team, yet another year pissing on us.
Oh well, hopefully we can get back to playing decently next week. Sigh, football eh?
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Nightmare traffic after the game - 2 hours to get back home. Started brightly and looked good for the first 15 minutes but 2 goals in quick succession knocked the stuffing out of us. We've been unlucky losing Okore and Vlaar to injury, Clark has done OK but Baker is at best 4th choice cover and we can see why. But the midfield is very weak - Westwood, Sylla and, KEA are just not up to the task and need to be upgraded. Gabby did OK, Marc was our best player, and Benteke seems to have lost the plot. He just doesn't look right. And I've never seen a PL side gift possession and goals as often and as badly as we do.
I feel like I say the same thing after every game now - we have too many players who simply aren't good enough at this level and if Lambert doesn't start getting some quality in, particularly in midfield, sooner or later we'll pay for it.
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Lambert says he can't fault the effort. Well if it's not the players' fault that they don't press, close down or create, then unfortunately he hasn't got far to look.
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Look on the bright side, at least all the apologists for Lambert seem to be keeping a low profile. I couldn't take another week of listening to nonsense about how we have improved on last season and that it is a matter of time before we start climbing up the charts. He has bought some truly woeful players not fit to play in the Championship. His team formations and tactics are utterly clueless. He has failed to do anything all season about Benteke who looked like he was fucking sedated today. I'm happy to see him go now because I'm sick of the limp excuses.
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Because if I was playing like him today, I would have the balls to go to the manager and say get me off Boss I am crap, not wait until after the game while I am sitting in the changing room and have the mind set after playing like a complete twat, to lets just go and say sorry on twatter.
Is that fair enough PWS or did you think he had a blinder and is the best Villa full back to ever wear the shirt.
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Bloody awful.
It took about 30 minutes more than usual to get away after the game because of everybody who left 10 minutes before the end meant we were near the back of the traffic queue. Why couldn't you have left after 25 minutes when it was all over ? We would have had a clear run then.
Horrible weather. Christmas ruined (which I don't particularly enjoy at the best of times). I'm tired.
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I don't care if these young lads are gaining experience.....they are simply not good enough, end of. Losing faith in Lambert - last year we played very well against United and should've won. Club is sliding backwards.
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Dont give a shit about Spurs I'm a Villa supporter and this is yet again crap.
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Because if I was playing like him today, I would have the balls to go to the manager and say get me off Boss I am crap, not wait until after the game while I am sitting in the changing room and have the mind set after playing like a complete twat, to lets just go and say sorry on twatter.
Is that fair enough PWS or did you think he had a blinder and is the best Villa full back to ever wear the shirt.
How many players have you ever seen ask to be taken off in a professional game due to form?
Yes because saying that he might actually give a shit is exactly the same as thinking he played a blinder and is the best full back to ever play for us isn't it.
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Bloody awful.
It took about 30 minutes more than usual to get away after the game because of everybody who left 10 minutes before the end meant we were near the back of the traffic queue. Why couldn't you have left after 25 minutes when it was all over ? We would have had a clear run then.
Horrible weather. Christmas ruined (which I don't particularly enjoy at the best of times). I'm tired.
4 or 5 chaps who sit acouple of rows behind me fucked off to the pub at half time after loud and heated deliberation, and I don't blame them.
Yet another abject home performance and thoroughly depressing for the fans who must be thinking they are being punished for some terrible act in a previous life.
Ghastly.
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(http://giant.gfycat.com/PartialEvilIbadanmalimbe.gif)
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Make no mistake, Utd were beatable today.
The fact we didn't give them a game says a lot.
The fact Marc Albrighton was our only player who looked like he knew what he was doing says even more.
I see a side packed full of players who I doubt would stand out if they were on loan at Wolves in league one.
We are so disorganized and disjointed it's unreal. The back four is so brittle, Utd were walking through at will. Unfortunately our midfield, with no less than three defensive minded central players lack the experience to spot a threat and offer protection by marking up.
People keep telling me our players are young and hungry, but I have to say I'm struggling to remember a Villa side that consistently showed less desire than this one.
Never mind Carruthers and Grealish, Baker and Clark are at the level where they should be learning their trade at a lower level like Gary Cahill did.
Lambert needs to sort this before it too late and get a tough tackling midfield general and experienced cover at centre half -- even Gregory got Calderwood in as a stop gap I recall.
I am old enough to remember the last time we filled our defence with promising U21 internationals.......we were relegated and the likes of Tony Dorigo and Martin Keown went on to have excellent careers....at other clubs.
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That being said however, Randy Lerner must make the decision of whether he wants to own a Premiership football club and accept that if he does it comes at a price and that price in this day and age is way above the bargain basement. There is no truer saying than You Get What You Pay For. The current Villa side is what we paid for.
Spot on & my concern is that it won't get any better any time soon. From a financial point of view we've had 3-4 years of overspend & 3-5 years of contracts that go with it. I'm assuming that Lerner is now happy for us to keep our head above water until the decks are clear. How long that is going to be the case is anyone's guess, we've been lucky enough to get away with it so far but we are woefully short of the quality needed at this level. It will catch up with us sooner or later.
For the first time I can remember I'm losing interest & there must be thousands like me.
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(http://giant.gfycat.com/SkinnyHairyGoral.gif)
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Years ago, we couldn't seem to put a foot wrong buying defenders, i'm struggling to think of a decent one we've bought since Laursen. Luke Young and Bouma were half decent, Cuellar wasn't too terrible and Dunne was good for a season. We must have bought at least 4 times that amount in that time and the rest have been total shite.
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Okore.
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Ron looks good this season too.
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Okore.
He looks very promising, but i don't think you can count him just yet.
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Crap.
Would anyone do better?
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One thing to be thankful for this Sunday: "Not being a Spurs supporter".
...but then again, that something to be thankful for on any given Sunday :)
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Ron looks good this season too.
Sorry, not sold on that one. He does have odd good games but a 'decent defender' he is not. Good enough to be first choice defensive cover, but not first 11.
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Paul Lambert bemoaned the manner of all three conceded goals as Villa went down 3-0 to Man Utd.
Lambert felt there were basic errors at the back as Danny Welbeck [2] and Tom Cleverly earned maximum points for the Red Devils.
He said: "I thought we started the game really well, as well as we have started for a number of weeks.
"We looked pretty decent at that point.
"What is disappointing is the goals we lost.
"For the second and third goals, we were actually in possession of the ball. They turned it over. We had ball possession. It's not like we were cut open.
"We have to be better in possession of the ball, especially against a team like that.
"For the first goal, we just needed to stop a cross. That's just a basic part of the game.
"The goals were disappointing.
"But Man Utd are clinical. You cannot give them a sniff otherwise that will happen.
"From my point of view, the goals were disappointing after a good start."
Lambert revealed Chris Herd was due to play against the champions this afternoon but was pulled out of the side this morning after receiving a facial injury in training.
He continued: "That was a blow. He was playing and then got hurt in training.
"We had to change the whole structure. He was ruled out this morning.
"We had to change everything. He got a facial knock and it was too risky to play him."
On the plus side, Lambert was pleased with the effort and endeavour of returning Marc Albrighton, who worked his socks off throughout the 90 minutes.
He continued: "That was the plus point. He came back in and he was excellent. I am pretty sure he will be feeling it later on.
"But that was certainly the plus point. He's been really unfortunate due to his injuries. But today he was excellent."
Boss Lambert said there's no time for his side to mope and moan as he called on them to go again as they face Stoke next Saturday.
He also hopes to see an upturn in his team's home form as they face Crystal Palace and Swansea in quick succession.
He added: "There's no point feeling sorry for ourselves.
"We have to bounce back as quick as we can.
"We seem to be doing things the wrong way around - getting good results away from home and struggling at home.
"Whether you win, lose or draw, you look at it for a couple of days but then let it go. That's something we will do.
"I always say your home form has got to be good to have any chance.We seem to be doing it the other way around - winning away from home and then struggling at home. It's something we have to rectify."
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That being said however, Randy Lerner must make the decision of whether he wants to own a Premiership football club and accept that if he does it comes at a price and that price in this day and age is way above the bargain basement. There is no truer saying than You Get What You Pay For. The current Villa side is what we paid for.
Spot on & my concern is that it won't get any better any time soon. From a financial point of view we've had 3-4 years of overspend & 3-5 years of contracts that go with it. I'm assuming that Lerner is now happy for us to keep our head above water until the decks are clear. How long that is going to be the case is anyone's guess, we've been lucky enough to get away with it so far but we are woefully short of the quality needed at this level. It will catch up with us sooner or later.
For the first time I can remember I'm losing interest & there must be thousands like me.[\b]
I have been there for some time now. Never expected us to win today so I can't say I am too disappointed as I have long gone past that stage. Really can't be bothered anymore, very sad indeed!
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Luna, without any doubt, is the worst left back I have ever seen down Villa Park.
and I have seen Wilson Briggs!
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Luna without any doubt is the worst left back I have ever seen down Villa Park.
and I have seen Wilson Briggs!
Bernie Gallagher?
And the more recent Nicky Shorey wasn't too clever either.
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I look forward to the roar of support around Villa park when Joe Bennett returns to the left back position. The wheel turns and turns :)
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Luna without any doubt is the worst left back I have ever seen down Villa Park.
and I have seen Wilson Briggs!
Bernie Gallagher?
And the more recent Nicky Shorey wasn't too clever either.
Even Bryan Small was better than Luna.
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Luna, without any doubt, is the worst left back I have ever seen down Villa Park.
and I have seen Wilson Briggs!
Bryan Small?
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What the fuck is a facial injury?
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Just so glad I didn't go today.
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What the fuck is a facial injury?
Ask Iain Dowie.
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Off out with the kids so I'll post early. The match and post match threads are the same every week now, and it's nothing to do with the opposition. We're being outplayed by all sides in the division not just the good ones. Yes, we've pulled out some really good results but the thought that possession of 35% or less per game was going to last as a method to success was never a good one.
We're now at the start of a worrying series of results where not only have we lost our best defender, we've lost our best forward for almost 3 months. The Benteke of last season is but a memory and the current version is a shadow of what was. The two situations combined with diminishing confidence could lead us to a December period similar to last season. It is very, very worrying. I'll support Lambert as much as can be but he needs to fix this quickly.
100% this...
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I couldn't really be bothered to go today. It's becoming a bit of a chore. I don't think I'll get a season ticket next year unless something changes, and just pick and choose.
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What the fuck is a facial injury?
Playing like crap at Villa Park every other week and then "...go again".
No...wait, that might be a brain injury!
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Watch and weep (http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/aston-villa-0-manchester-united-3-extended-highlights/)
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Iain Dowie has a degree in engineering something that always amazes me when you see him at 'work' as a tv pundit. I used to see him regularly at Ryton Pools when he was manager of Coventry City. Towering ugly in the flesh and built like a brick shithouse, but was unfailingly polite to everyone who recognised him and offered crumbs of sympathy .
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That being said however, Randy Lerner must make the decision of whether he wants to own a Premiership football club and accept that if he does it comes at a price and that price in this day and age is way above the bargain basement. There is no truer saying than You Get What You Pay For. The current Villa side is what we paid for.
Spot on & my concern is that it won't get any better any time soon. From a financial point of view we've had 3-4 years of overspend & 3-5 years of contracts that go with it. I'm assuming that Lerner is now happy for us to keep our head above water until the decks are clear. How long that is going to be the case is anyone's guess, we've been lucky enough to get away with it so far but we are woefully short of the quality needed at this level. It will catch up with us sooner or later.
For the first time I can remember I'm losing interest & there must be thousands like me.[\b]
I have been there for some time now. Never expected us to win today so I can't say I am too disappointed as I have long gone past that stage. Really can't be bothered anymore, very sad indeed!
People make out Brummies are stupid, we aint so stupid as to keep paying to watch utter dross every other week.
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As crap as Luna was today, i don't think having that plank Baker next to him and NOBODY in front of him helped his cause. Meaning he was often left with 2 players attacking him and being turned in circles
You can't put all that down to Luna surely
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That was fucking garbage.
Only Albrighton came through that with any credit for me.
However for those of you saying Lambert should be gone, I'd ask who would form the queue up Witton Lane? Clarke? Mutley? Dutch Schteve? Hell, maybe we can have another go with McCleish or that wanker DO'Lly and we can really not compete with the Palace's and Hull's of this world all over again.
We have a budget at the club that has to be adhered to. Unfortunately, growing the club is the only option now but that invariably means we're gonna witness some utter shit until the seeds grow into something worthwhile.
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As crap as Luna was today, i don't think having that plank Baker next to him and NOBODY in front of him helped his cause. Meaning he was often left with 2 players attacking him and being turned in circles
You can't put all that down to Luna surely
Agreed, Baker was very poor. Vlaar can't come back soon enough.
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(http://giant.gfycat.com/SharpPlushEgret.gif)
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That's as close to being in the shit as Man Utd got all day.
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What the fuck is a facial injury?
It's when you can't face turning up to play out of position!
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Look on the bright side, at least all the apologists for Lambert seem to be keeping a low profile.
We're just letting you lot blow-off steam then we'll come back with some reasoned arguments rather than angry rants because we lost to a team we always lose to.
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What the fuck is a facial injury?
A injury to the face?
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Hasn't anyone yet mentioned Rule 4.5.1a, sub-section (c) which clearly states that Manchester United are entitled to 3 points at Villa Park unless a seagull flies overhead when they can only have 1?
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As crap as Luna was today, i don't think having that plank Baker next to him and NOBODY in front of him helped his cause. Meaning he was often left with 2 players attacking him and being turned in circles
You can't put all that down to Luna surely
Agreed, Baker was very poor. Vlaar can't come back soon enough.
Fair point, Luna was hung out to dry, but I had to to agree with an old chap at the game who said he would rather have Ridgewell.
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I'm encouraged that Lambert had planned on playing Herd today. Still doesn't excuse the lack of basic football tactics on show today but at least it demonstrates he's not completely blind to what goes on in front of him.
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What the fuck is a facial injury?
A injury to the face?
I thought it was when you have a crap and then have to hit it with a stick to get it to clear off round the u bend
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I think some here are confusing a facial injury with a faecial injury. With the amount of faecial we displayed today that's kind of understandable.
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The game we gave Chelsea at Stamford Bridge set a benchmark for how to approach battles with the top teams. In their faces (moreso than at Arsenal on the opening day), resolute and not afraid to have a go even when behind. That evaporated all too quickly against Liverpool in our next game and we've not rediscovered it since.
Today we huffed and puffed. The amount of times a player in midfield would do well to extricate himself from opponents before taking the ball on and losing it due to no one moving into space or passing into space without looking and losing possession was depressing to see.
Yanited, and all the good teams, have players who can anticipate the ball and predict the breaking ball. Our lot just don't seem to have the noggins to think. Equally we ball-watch and lose our men when defending i.e. Westwood for the second goal.
In fairness we came back twice from losing positions against Man. City although I accept things went for us in that second half.
Really in most of my time support Villa fro mid 90s we've pretty much always had an inferiority complex against the bigger teams in the league expect for 18 months under MON when we were giving everyone in the league a game home and away (apart from Chelsea 7-1 and Liverpool 5-0) but at least we believed we could get results.
At the moment I'm realistic, we're a mid table team and that's where we will finish which is improvement. Do I want this to be the case for eternity, of course not. Other teams like Newcastle and Southampton have still shown you can challenge the top 6 with some intelligent signings.
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Look on the bright side, at least all the apologists for Lambert seem to be keeping a low profile.
We're just letting you lot blow-off steam then we'll come back with some reasoned arguments rather than angry rants because we lost to a team we always lose to.
Wow after all this time with Lambert at the helm and his relentless push for perfection, as a reactionary dullard I can't wait to be enlightened by your considered pearls of wisdom. Start with Lambert the master tactician, or perhaps Lambert the transfer market genius. What an education this will be. Excuses...blah drone.....young kids......time to build.....blah drone....wage bill.......previous managers....blah drone.....
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Lambert's view (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25392990)
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Clueless inept decrepid..Platt. Me? I thought complete shite. So many players with 'not my fault' look! Wrong wrong wrong..as the waiter said ' Inshallah'! God help us in other words!
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I don't think lambert is good for avfc. We can dress it up but his tenure has been shocking so far. I wouldn't lose any sleep if we sacked him.
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Luna did look warnock esc today. We need some
Quality additions in January, however I don't see us making any additions let alone adding quality
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I don't think lambert is good for avfc. We can dress it up but his tenure has been shocking so far. I wouldn't lose any sleep if we sacked him.
Replacement?
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I don't think lambert is good for avfc. We can dress it up but his tenure has been shocking so far. I wouldn't lose any sleep if we sacked him.
Replacement?
Precisely. Who?
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I don't think lambert is good for avfc. We can dress it up but his tenure has been shocking so far. I wouldn't lose any sleep if we sacked him.
Replacement?
Precisely. Who?
Ahh now here it comes again.
There is football outside of the British Isles aswell you know, just thought I'd mention it before someone cries out Jol, Mctwat, Holloway etc.
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I don't think lambert is good for avfc. We can dress it up but his tenure has been shocking so far. I wouldn't lose any sleep if we sacked him.
Replacement?
Precisely. Who?
Fuck knows, but if Lambert got turfed tomorrow I wouldn't shed any tears. I don't think he'll ever cut it here.
As for replacements we could say "I'd love x, or y" but fuck knows who Randolph would hire.
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I don't think lambert is good for avfc. We can dress it up but his tenure has been shocking so far. I wouldn't lose any sleep if we sacked him.
Replacement?
Precisely. Who?
Ahh now here it comes again.
There is football outside of the British Isles aswell you know, just thought I'd mention it before someone cries out Jol, Mctwat, Holloway etc.
I am all ears!
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We have too many players who are barely Championship standard. I really think we will find it difficult to stay up this season because on current form we are the worst team in the division, we're actually worse than last season if truth be told.
Our defense reminds me of 1987, the only difference being back then we didn't have a player then who feigned injury to cover up his ineptitude.
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Lambert will not be sacked/replaced, he is doing exactly what the owner wants, keeping us in the PL without having to spend too much.
Randy must love this fixture, full house and extra tv revenue. Why would he care about the result, he makes even more money out of this game than under MON as the wages are lower and income is higher. Lambert is going nowhere and so are Villa.
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What the fuck is a facial injury?
He was given a facial and it caused him an injury.
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I'm still behind Lambert although not without reason as the quality of football must improve 2nd half of the season.
That said I wouldn't have a hesitation in paying up overnight If a maverick like Marcelo Bielsa could be tempted to the premier league. I loved watching that Bilbao side he managed a year or two ago.
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I don't think lambert is good for avfc. We can dress it up but his tenure has been shocking so far. I wouldn't lose any sleep if we sacked him.
Replacement?
Precisely. Who?
Fuck knows, but if Lambert got turfed tomorrow I wouldn't shed any tears. I don't think he'll ever cut it here.
As for replacements we could say "I'd love x, or y" but fuck knows who Randolph would hire.
There are promising managers out there who may well fancy a try in the Premier League, I'm sure. A quick look online comes up with Solksjaer, Hyppia, Malky Mackay, Goncharenko (not sure about this one, but more research might come up trumps), Vito Pereira, Peter Bosz, Koeman....I'm sure there are planty of good coaches who would consider Villa, and the Premier League, a chance to move up the ladder.
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I don't think lambert is good for avfc. We can dress it up but his tenure has been shocking so far. I wouldn't lose any sleep if we sacked him.
Replacement?
Precisely. Who?
Ahh now here it comes again.
There is football outside of the British Isles aswell you know, just thought I'd mention it before someone cries out Jol, Mctwat, Holloway etc.
I am all ears!
I don't think lambert is good for avfc. We can dress it up but his tenure has been shocking so far. I wouldn't lose any sleep if we sacked him.
Replacement?
Precisely. Who?
Fuck knows, but if Lambert got turfed tomorrow I wouldn't shed any tears. I don't think he'll ever cut it here.
As for replacements we could say "I'd love x, or y" but fuck knows who Randolph would hire.
There are promising managers out there who may well fancy a try in the Premier League, I'm sure. A quick look online comes up with Solksjaer, Hyppia, Malky Mackay, Goncharenko (not sure about this one, but more research might come up trumps), Vito Pereira, Peter Bosz, Koeman....I'm sure there are planty of good coaches who would consider Villa, and the Premier League, a chance to move up the ladder.
Wrong, if we sack Lambore we will replace him with a Warnock or Holloway because we are completely insignificant and no one would consider us. Seems we've spent so long we can't compete with the Fulhams of this world we've started to believe it. Let's have some ambition.
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We could attract plenty of decent managers if we wanted to. The problem is Randy wants a budget manager to work on a tight budget, which limits your options.
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Not keen on Lambert and wouldn't give a shit if he was sacked, but on the other hand whoever comes in under this regime is unlikely to make a huge difference. And of course, if by some miracle he did do a lot better, the key players would be sold anyway and we'd be back to square one. Unless someone is going to come in and make us no longer a 'selling club' the cycle of the past 15 years will continue. Be nice to get someone that could get us in a position to have taken advantage on days like today though.
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We could attract plenty of decent managers if we wanted to. The problem is Randy wants a budget manager to work on a tight budget, which limits your options.
I agree, whoever comes in I think top 8 is the height of ambition without a lot of finance - but the football might be much better to watch.
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Not keen on Lambert and wouldn't give a shit if he was sacked, but on the other hand whoever comes in under this regime is unlikely to make a huge difference. And of course, if by some miracle he did do a lot better, the key players would be sold anyway and we'd be back to square one. Unless someone is going to come in and make us no longer a 'selling club' the cycle of the past 15 years will continue. Be nice to get someone that could get us in a position to have taken advantage on days like today though.
A good tactician with a bit of nous could take us up a notch and make us look a bit more organised on the pitch. Who that is, is another matter.
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We could attract plenty of decent managers if we wanted to. The problem is Randy wants a budget manager to work on a tight budget, which limits your options.
I agree, whoever comes in I think top 8 is the height of ambition without a lot of finance - but the football might be much better to watch.
If the players seemed to have an idea what they are doing and we showed even an ability to do the basics, that would be a good start.
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I think if we took on Holloway then we deserve EVERYTHING we get. After how he described us there is NO way his name should EVER be linked with that of our club.
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The moral of today's match was if you give the ball away cheaply, you'll get punished against teams like Man Utd. I thought our midfield three were terrible.
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I think if we took on Holloway then we deserve EVERYTHING we get. After how he described us there is NO way his name should EVER be linked with that of our club.
Totally.
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I don't think lambert is good for avfc. We can dress it up but his tenure has been shocking so far. I wouldn't lose any sleep if we sacked him.
Replacement?
Precisely. Who?
Fuck knows, but if Lambert got turfed tomorrow I wouldn't shed any tears. I don't think he'll ever cut it here.
As for replacements we could say "I'd love x, or y" but fuck knows who Randolph would hire.
There are promising managers out there who may well fancy a try in the Premier League, I'm sure. A quick look online comes up with Solksjaer, Hyppia, Malky Mackay, Goncharenko (not sure about this one, but more research might come up trumps), Vito Pereira, Peter Bosz, Koeman....I'm sure there are planty of good coaches who would consider Villa, and the Premier League, a chance to move up the ladder.
I've actually just noticed that Hyppia's Leverkusen are doing rather better than I had imagined, so he's out. ;-)
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The moral of today's match was if you give the ball away cheaply, you'll get punished against teams like Man Utd. I thought our midfield three were terrible.
I actually thought Westwood was ok (not great not awful just ok).
Sylla and El Ahmadi on the other hand....
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I think if we took on Holloway then we deserve EVERYTHING we get. After how he described us there is NO way his name should EVER be linked with that of our club.
Surely not even Randy would be that foolish. Granted I'm saying this about the man who hired Alex McLeish, but Holloway? Surely not...
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@StrideSteve: Poorest Villa v Man Utd match and atmosphere that I can remember. http://t.co/MZ2fIx8tlu
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It's his Birthday tomorrow.
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The moral of today's match was if you give the ball away cheaply, you'll get punished against teams like Man Utd. I thought our midfield three were terrible.
Would only really praise albrighton for a special mention.
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Yep the Ellis reign was flushed with glorious home wins over Man. United of course....
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I don't think lambert is good for avfc. We can dress it up but his tenure has been shocking so far. I wouldn't lose any sleep if we sacked him.
Replacement?
Precisely. Who?
Well if we are going to continue in the vein of low budget players, then Sean Dyche.
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Men against boys. We didn't physically compete with them and looked totally in awe of their team of nobodies.
Yet again they didn't need to get out of second gear to beat us very comfortably.
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Lets get Fergie to come out of retirement before the Utd job is open again! ;)
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I haven’t read all the previous posts so apologies if I’m being repetitious. And I've had a few glasses of the falling-over juice to assuage my poor mood.
I’m pissed off: having supported Lambert’s candidature as manager and welcomed his appointment, I’m at a point where I think he has reached a bit of an impasse. Today we faced a Utd team which could have been taken down by a side with energy, passion and verve. Instead, we saw a team that proved to be every bit as flaky as other Villa sides of the last three years. Luna, Sylla and Baker were, simply, hopeless. All three made mistakes that turned into goals for a side that was not particularly threatening otherwise.
Along with Luna, Sylla and Baker, KEA is not a Premiership player. Furthermore, Benteke is going through what seems to be a nightmare of a self-confidence crisis. And the poor ball retention is frightening.
Taken all into account Lambert really does not seem to know what to do about it all: his tactical options are limited; his substitutions are too little too late; his half-time talks seemingly ineffectual.
The choice of MF seems to me to be critical in top-class footie these days: today, We saw a poor Sylla and a limited KEA team up, with Gardner and Bacuna on the bench. I said before the game, I’d love to have seen the youthful and technically-capable Bacuna and GG play as a breath of fresh air, alongside Westie. Lambert stuck with the tried and tested … but ultimately fallible.
Any good points? – well, seeing Albrighton continually beat his man was great. Seeing a proper right back in a Villa shirt was good, and he played well. Seeing Clark look like a gifted, footballing CB was reassuring.
Let’s hope Vlaar and Delph make the difference we need them to, otherwise we’re knackered this season.
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I think if we took on Holloway then we deserve EVERYTHING we get. After how he described us there is NO way his name should EVER be linked with that of our club.
Quite
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@MatKendrick: In 2045 I can imagine Aston Villa boss Jack Grealish being asked by my son "Is this the year Villa finally beat Man United at home?"
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We gave up at 2-0. That is inexcusable.
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Not keen on Lambert and wouldn't give a shit if he was sacked, but on the other hand whoever comes in under this regime is unlikely to make a huge difference. And of course, if by some miracle he did do a lot better, the key players would be sold anyway and we'd be back to square one. Unless someone is going to come in and make us no longer a 'selling club' the cycle of the past 15 years will continue. Be nice to get someone that could get us in a position to have taken advantage on days like today though.
A good tactician with a bit of nous could take us up a notch and make us look a bit more organised on the pitch. Who that is, is another matter.
If you look at Norwich's season in the premier league under Lambert, we regularly rotated his starting 11 and changed systems. It worked. Norwich were comfortably mid table all season and were entertaining to watch. I don't understand how these managers can do well at other clubs then come to Villa Park and seemingly lose all tactical ability.
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Not keen on Lambert and wouldn't give a shit if he was sacked, but on the other hand whoever comes in under this regime is unlikely to make a huge difference. And of course, if by some miracle he did do a lot better, the key players would be sold anyway and we'd be back to square one. Unless someone is going to come in and make us no longer a 'selling club' the cycle of the past 15 years will continue. Be nice to get someone that could get us in a position to have taken advantage on days like today though.
A good tactician with a bit of nous could take us up a notch and make us look a bit more organised on the pitch. Who that is, is another matter.
If you look at Norwich's season in the premier league under Lambert, we regularly rotated his starting 11 and changed systems. It worked. Norwich were comfortably mid table all season and were entertaining to watch. I don't understand how these managers can do well at other clubs then come to Villa Park and seemingly lose all tactical ability.
This bemuses me too, SoccerHQ. His tacitcal nous with us seems awfully limited.
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So many posts saying its so predictable, yet going on as if you're shocked.
We lost to Manchester United. It's what we do.
Please move on.
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Does anyone think if vlaar and Delph had played the result would have been different?
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It was the result i expected, we have a poor squad, take the two best central defenders and the best midfielder out of that squad and you get todays result. Cannot see any improvement in the short term, Lerner will have acheived his low paid squad objective by the end of the season and as long as we are still in the premiership he no doubt will see it as a success.
I agree that Marc was the pick of the Villa players today but lets not forget that he is playing for his footballing career, he did however display a level of skill and commitment, he was a one off in a terrible team.
We have to face up to it, the experiment of buying raw talent on the cheap sounded okay at the time but Benteke apart i cannot name one player he has bought that i think will make the grade.
The next few games become very interesting, if we start losing to the likes of Crystal Palace and Stoke maybe even Randy will decide enough is enough.
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Does anyone think if vlaar and Delph had played the result would have been different?
Yes. We'd probably still have lost or possibly drawn but would have done so in a better manner, if that makes sense.
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So many posts saying its so predictable, yet going on as if you're shocked.
We lost to Manchester United. It's what we do.
Please move on.
My take on things too.
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So many posts saying its so predictable, yet going on as if you're shocked.
We lost to Manchester United. It's what we do.
Please move on.
It's not the defeat amfy - it's the manner of the defeat
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@StrideSteve: Poorest Villa v Man Utd match and atmosphere that I can remember. http://t.co/MZ2fIx8tlu
I have a lot of time and respect for Steve but that was just ridiculous.
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So many posts saying its so predictable, yet going on as if you're shocked.
We lost to Manchester United. It's what we do.
Please move on.
Surely we should aspire to beat them though, not meekly hand them the 3 points on a plate and accept thats what we do?
We were playing a team one place above us in the table , not barcelona - do we give them too much respect ?
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@StrideSteve: Poorest Villa v Man Utd match and atmosphere that I can remember. http://t.co/MZ2fIx8tlu
I have a lot of time and respect for Steve but that was just ridiculous.
I think he just about called it right: United were not particularly good; the atmosphere was pretty low-key and the Villa display pucntuated by some awful individual performances.
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Does anyone think if vlaar and Delph had played the result would have been different?
Yes. We'd probably still have lost or possibly drawn but would have done so in a better manner, if that makes sense.
That's what I thought. No way would Delph have let Giggs run the show.
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The amount of time Giggs had to spray passes out to Valencia time after time was criminal. Why wasn't anything done about that for the first 60 minutes...
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Luna has been torn apart by Ben Arfa, townsend and now Valencia all at home - lamberts admission that herd would have played makes me wonder If Clark or baker may have been left back .
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More likely 3-5-2
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The amount of time Giggs had to spray passes out to Valencia time after time was criminal. Why wasn't anything done about that for the first 60 minutes...
Because our players just are'nt good enough.
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@StrideSteve: Poorest Villa v Man Utd match and atmosphere that I can remember. http://t.co/MZ2fIx8tlu
I have a lot of time and respect for Steve but that was just ridiculous.
I think he just about called it right: United were not particularly good; the atmosphere was pretty low-key and the Villa display pucntuated by some awful individual performances.
From what I can remember Steve Stride was around in the 80's so unless he has a short memory it is a ridiculous comment.
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The one positive thing I came away with today was Marc Albrighton's performance. Welcome back Marc. Keep it up.
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@StrideSteve: Poorest Villa v Man Utd match and atmosphere that I can remember. http://t.co/MZ2fIx8tlu
I have a lot of time and respect for Steve but that was just ridiculous.
I think he just about called it right: United were not particularly good; the atmosphere was pretty low-key and the Villa display pucntuated by some awful individual performances.
The worst ever? Including the times when we wouldn't get 30,000?
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Luna has been torn apart by Ben Arfa, townsend and now Valencia all at home - lamberts admission that herd would have played makes me wonder If Clark or baker may have been left back .
Herd would have been far better than Sylla or KEA in MF today, TBH.
Regarding LB, we are short of a decent LB in the club: Bennett is unproven and unfit, Luna is not good enough and neither Baker (who is not a premiership player in any position) nor Clark are FB material. Full back is is a specialist position requiring a specialist, not an infill.
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Poorest performance on the pitch definitely, I absolve the fans as we can only take so many kicks in the nuts on the pitch and stay up for it, Lamberts Villa have had a very decent support home and away considering our record at home especially.
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@StrideSteve: Poorest Villa v Man Utd match and atmosphere that I can remember. http://t.co/MZ2fIx8tlu (http://t.co/MZ2fIx8tlu)
I have a lot of time and respect for Steve but that was just ridiculous.
I think he just about called it right: United were not particularly good; the atmosphere was pretty low-key and the Villa display pucntuated by some awful individual performances.
The worst ever? Including the times when we wouldn't get 30,000?
Have we got <30k against MU in the last 40 years? - I can't remember!
The atmosphere was totally flat today; even in the Dark Days we'd get 'up' for a game against them.
But, maybe SS's assertion simply reflects the complete let-down that people generally felt after what was not only a dispiriting game but also an opportunity lost against an indifferent MU side.
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The amount of time Giggs had to spray passes out to Valencia time after time was criminal. Why wasn't anything done about that for the first 60 minutes...
Because our players just are'nt good enough.
Some of them look miles away from being good enough at this level.
KEA isn't capable of impersonating a footballer. He gives the ball away so easily.
Sylla looks like he came from the French 2nd division and Westwood looks like his next move will be back to Crewe.
God only knows what has happened to Benteke.
Luna and Baker, don't get me started.
Technically , our players look so poor, it's like the don't see a football during the week. Terrible first touches and inability to pass to each other.
You pay peanuts, you get monkeys .
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26000 vs United in the mid-80s. It was flat today, though.
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@StrideSteve: Poorest Villa v Man Utd match and atmosphere that I can remember. http://t.co/MZ2fIx8tlu
I have a lot of time and respect for Steve but that was just ridiculous.
I think he just about called it right: United were not particularly good; the atmosphere was pretty low-key and the Villa display pucntuated by some awful individual performances.
From what I can remember Steve Stride was around in the 80's so unless he has a short memory it is a ridiculous comment.
I seem to remember a December game in the Turner years where a United side that included Colin Gibson who we practically gave away to them transfer fee wise stuck three past us and I'm pretty sure the attendance was a tad short of 40,000.
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its obvious that any manager coming to Villa would be working under the same constraints as Lambert and as such, would have a similar chance of success or failure, so why not stick with the status quo?. The problem I have with that is that Lambert has not displayed any real ability to be a budget manager so what have we got to loose by replacing him?. Most of his signings look poor, and tactically we have not progressed under his regime in any real sense from TSM. No one in their right mind would advocate Holloway or someone of his ilk as a replacement but is it really beyond us to do something similar to Southampton?
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@StrideSteve: Poorest Villa v Man Utd match and atmosphere that I can remember. http://t.co/MZ2fIx8tlu
I have a lot of time and respect for Steve but that was just ridiculous.
I think he just about called it right: United were not particularly good; the atmosphere was pretty low-key and the Villa display pucntuated by some awful individual performances.
From what I can remember Steve Stride was around in the 80's so unless he has a short memory it is a ridiculous comment.
I seem to remember a December game in the Turner years where a United side that included Colin Gibson who we practically gave away to them transfer fee wise stuck three past us and I'm pretty sure the attendance was a tad short of 40,000.
No, that's the 26000 I mentioned the post above.
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its obvious that any manager coming to Villa would be working under the same constraints as Lambert and as such, would have a similar chance of success or failure, so why not stick with the status quo?. The problem I have with that is that Lambert has not displayed any real ability to be a budget manager so what have we got to loose by replacing him?. Most of his signings look poor, and tactically we have not progressed under his regime in any real sense from TSM. No one in their right mind would advocate Holloway or someone of his ilk as a replacement but is it really beyond us to do something similar to Southampton?
I think most people realise that we can only realistically compete at upper midtable with our finances but the dreadful football being played is a huge concern for many.
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@StrideSteve: Poorest Villa v Man Utd match and atmosphere that I can remember. http://t.co/MZ2fIx8tlu (http://t.co/MZ2fIx8tlu)
I have a lot of time and respect for Steve but that was just ridiculous.
I think he just about called it right: United were not particularly good; the atmosphere was pretty low-key and the Villa display pucntuated by some awful individual performances.
From what I can remember Steve Stride was around in the 80's so unless he has a short memory it is a ridiculous comment.
I seem to remember a December game in the Turner years where a United side that included Colin Gibson who we practically gave away to them transfer fee wise stuck three past us and I'm pretty sure the attendance was a tad short of 40,000.
No, that's the 26000 I mentioned the post above.
Well, apologies for forgetting that, but I can see where SS was coming from in his tweet - as I said above, maybe SS's assertion simply reflects the complete let-down that people generally felt after what was not only a dispiriting game but also an opportunity lost against an indifferent MU side.
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Is the problem benteke or indeed lambert? Buying players from the market we are in is doomed. Benteke looks shite but when does anyone beat a player and put a decent ball in? No coach in the world could make a defence from clark and baker but with our budget who can we replace them with, another untried gamble? The midfield can't dominate games, can't retain possession, has no physical presence and little penetration. In a word, it's shit. Would replacing PL solve this? Not unless RL changes his philosophy. Perhaps it would be better if he came clean as to what the club is hoping to achieve, if it's merely survival then don't expect any improvements. The transfer window will confirm this, if it's more of the same then expect this every season until RL leaves.
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Was today worse than last week at Fulham? I went last week but couldn't get there today. Did we just give up?
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Was today worse than last week at Fulham? I went last week but couldn't get there today. Did we just give up?
Yessir.
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Only after they'd scored.
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Is the problem benteke or indeed lambert? Buying players from the market we are in is doomed. Benteke looks shite but when does anyone beat a player and put a decent ball in? No coach in the world could make a defence from clark and baker but with our budget who can we replace them with, another untried gamble? The midfield can't dominate games, can't retain possession, has no physical presence and little penetration. In a word, it's shit. Would replacing PL solve this? Not unless RL changes his philosophy. Perhaps it would be better if he came clean as to what the club is hoping to achieve, if it's merely survival then don't expect any improvements. The transfer window will confirm this, if it's more of the same then expect this every season until RL leaves.
Two words for you as far as Mr Lerner is concerned......... Cleveland Browns. Says it all for me. Look at them now and look at their fans vitriol towards Lerner. Was that for no reason.?
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Only after they'd scored.
So we gave up after 15 minutes
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Only after they'd scored.
So we gave up after 15 minutes
Well at 2-0 it was done and dusted so let's say 20 mins.
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I have to say that although the football on the pitch was utterly woeful, what's the point in selling out our magnificent stadium then sitting there in silence listening to them horrible twats making all the noise for 90 minutes?
Just what has happened to the atmosphere down there?
I have just got back and this was the overriding impression of being at VP today.
The away fans were ignored. Let them sing what they like.
The vast majority in the stadium where it mattered was silent. It was eerie.
I thought we did well in the first 15 minutes and in the second half from time to time. (Defending further up helped and keeping the ball;not being funny.)
It's not that fans are being tight lipped or bloody minded about the team. It's just that, for goodness sake, give us something to get behind! Everybody around me was cheering on sot to voce, then the move would break down.
Gabby discovered the crowd's potential for that wonderful minute when he bundled De Gea and got a corner.
I don't think that you could ignore the mass yearning for something to cheer.
Sort it out, PL.
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So many posts saying its so predictable, yet going on as if you're shocked.
We lost to Manchester United. It's what we do.
Please move on.
It's not the defeat amfy - it's the manner of the defeat
Really?
So you've not seen better Villa sides than this throw away 2 goal leads?
The best thing I heard today was someone say at half time 'Cheer up - it could be worse, we could be 2 goals up!'
There was nothing in the manner of this defeat that was worse than previous years. We came out fighting, we'd had 3 shots in target before their first attack where they scored from a strike off the post that fell straight to one of theirs - of course. They're in a bad run but no-one was kidding themselves before KO that we had a better team.
A couple of injuries will hurt us more than half a dozen of theirs for a few years yet. (at least)
This is where we are, you can choose to carry on being angry about it every week or accept that this is your team. They're not the European Champions - that was 30 years ago. They're not the team that won the FA Cup the most times because we haven't won it since 1957.
This is your team Aston Villa 2013. You can get behind them if you like.
My own view is that despite the result this was be of our better home performances this year. Loads better than Sunderland. This isn't a fixture I particularly expect anything from. Maybe last week, before they'd already lost 2 in a row & before Delph's suspension I may have had some hope , but look at the re-match thread - who genuinely saw anything else here?
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its obvious that any manager coming to Villa would be working under the same constraints as Lambert and as such, would have a similar chance of success or failure, so why not stick with the status quo?. The problem I have with that is that Lambert has not displayed any real ability to be a budget manager so what have we got to loose by replacing him?. Most of his signings look poor, and tactically we have not progressed under his regime in any real sense from TSM. No one in their right mind would advocate Holloway or someone of his ilk as a replacement but is it really beyond us to do something similar to Southampton?
I think most people realise that we can only realistically compete at upper midtable with our finances but the dreadful football being played is a huge concern for many.
A couple of decent loan signings in January (particularly a CB for the rest of the season) might be a decent move.
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I can't mind a quieter atmosphere against them, even with 20k fewer in the ground, I'm not knocking the support in saying that, it was as one sided a game as normal and it's difficult to get excited by it.
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Lescott on loan, let's just get it done.
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But PL is totally adverse to buying in any premiership experience... even when he had them in the squad he didn't used them. I doubt he'd have played Petrov had he been around last season too...
It's pigheadedness of the highest level when the squad is crying out for a bit of experience.
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I have to say that although the football on the pitch was utterly woeful, what's the point in selling out our magnificent stadium then sitting there in silence listening to them horrible twats making all the noise for 90 minutes?
Just what has happened to the atmosphere down there?
I have just got back and this was the overriding impression of being at VP today.
The away fans were ignored. Let them sing what they like.
The vast majority in the stadium where it mattered was silent. It was eerie.
I thought we did well in the first 15 minutes and in the second half from time to time. (Defending further up helped and keeping the ball;not being funny.)
It's not that fans are being tight lipped or bloody minded about the team. It's just that, for goodness sake, give us something to get behind! Everybody around me was cheering on sot to voce, then the move would break down.
Gabby discovered the crowd's potential for that wonderful minute when he bundled De Gea and got a corner.
I don't think that you could ignore the mass yearning for something to cheer.
Sort it out, PL.
Well said, Louise; you summed it up.
I drove back and spent the 2 hours mulling over the lack of buzz; not surprising, really.
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Lescott on loan, let's just get it done.
Plus Ashley Young and another, then we will be fine.
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Yet he buys Ralph Lauren jumpers? I'd have thought he'd have bought us branded gear on the cheap or an unknown brand hoping it would catch on
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So many posts saying its so predictable, yet going on as if you're shocked.
We lost to Manchester United. It's what we do.
Please move on.
It's not the defeat amfy - it's the manner of the defeat
Really?
So you've not seen better Villa sides than this throw away 2 goal leads?
The best thing I heard today was someone say at half time 'Cheer up - it could be worse, we could be 2 goals up!'
There was nothing in the manner of this defeat that was worse than previous years. We came out fighting, we'd had 3 shots in target before their first attack where they scored from a strike off the post that fell straight to one of theirs - of course. They're in a bad run but no-one was kidding themselves before KO that we had a better team.
A couple of injuries will hurt us more than half a dozen of theirs for a few years yet. (at least)
This is where we are, you can choose to carry on being angry about it every week or accept that this is your team. They're not the European Champions - that was 30 years ago. They're not the team that won the FA Cup the most times because we haven't won it since 1957.
This is your team Aston Villa 2013. You can get behind them if you like.
My own view is that despite the result this was be of our better home performances this year. Loads better than Sunderland. This isn't a fixture I particularly expect anything from. Maybe last week, before they'd already lost 2 in a row & before Delph's suspension I may have had some hope , but look at the re-match thread - who genuinely saw anything else here?
If that is the case then we're in serious trouble. Yes we lost to them last year and have lost to them pretty much every year for the past two decades, but just think back to how well we played in the first 55 mins of the game last year and compare it to the turgid rubbish we served up today.
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I thought the atmosphere was pretty good for the first 15 minutes when we actually played. Then 2 goals in the space of 3 minutes killed off the atmosphere as well as the game
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I thought we started brightly but once they scored twice in 3 minutes it was game over - after that I thought we did little in the remainder of the game and it was another poor performance to add to the growing collection.
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So many posts saying its so predictable, yet going on as if you're shocked.
We lost to Manchester United. It's what we do.
Please move on.
It's not the defeat amfy - it's the manner of the defeat
Really?
So you've not seen better Villa sides than this throw away 2 goal leads?
The best thing I heard today was someone say at half time 'Cheer up - it could be worse, we could be 2 goals up!'
There was nothing in the manner of this defeat that was worse than previous years. We came out fighting, we'd had 3 shots in target before their first attack where they scored from a strike off the post that fell straight to one of theirs - of course. They're in a bad run but no-one was kidding themselves before KO that we had a better team.
A couple of injuries will hurt us more than half a dozen of theirs for a few years yet. (at least)
This is where we are, you can choose to carry on being angry about it every week or accept that this is your team. They're not the European Champions - that was 30 years ago. They're not the team that won the FA Cup the most times because we haven't won it since 1957.
This is your team Aston Villa 2013. You can get behind them if you like.
My own view is that despite the result this was be of our better home performances this year. Loads better than Sunderland. This isn't a fixture I particularly expect anything from. Maybe last week, before they'd already lost 2 in a row & before Delph's suspension I may have had some hope , but look at the re-match thread - who genuinely saw anything else here?
If that is the case then we're in serious trouble. Yes we lost to them last year and have lost to them pretty much every year for the past two decades, but just think back to how well we played in the first 55 mins of the game last year and compare it to the turgid rubbish we served up today.
Let's not be fooled. Both teams knew it was game over at 2-0' making the remaining 70 minutes a complete non-event. We rolled over and they patted our bellies. Utter garbage.
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So many posts saying its so predictable, yet going on as if you're shocked.
We lost to Manchester United. It's what we do.
Please move on.
My take on things too.
Garbage - even Cardiff competed against them. Our lot surrendered . Not one player pressed Giggs or Rooney.
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I totally disagree with the SVC "physical strength" observation
I think it is mental strength. Hence the early giving of goals in matches.
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I have to say that although the football on the pitch was utterly woeful, what's the point in selling out our magnificent stadium then sitting there in silence listening to them horrible twats making all the noise for 90 minutes?
Just what has happened to the atmosphere down there?
I have just got back and this was the overriding impression of being at VP today.
The away fans were ignored. Let them sing what they like.
The vast majority in the stadium where it mattered was silent. It was eerie.
I thought we did well in the first 15 minutes and in the second half from time to time. (Defending further up helped and keeping the ball;not being funny.)
It's not that fans are being tight lipped or bloody minded about the team. It's just that, for goodness sake, give us something to get behind! Everybody around me was cheering on sot to voce, then the move would break down.
Gabby discovered the crowd's potential for that wonderful minute when he bundled De Gea and got a corner.
I don't think that you could ignore the mass yearning for something to cheer.
Sort it out, PL.
Well said, Louise; you summed it up.
I drove back and spent the 2 hours mulling over the lack of buzz; not surprising, really.
I've been to VP to see us end up losing before ( several times, and winning as well, over the years! As I am sure you have as well) but I don't think I have ever heard it so quiet for so long before today, MisterE.
If this is us giving a young team time to settle then fair enough. It must be unnerving for them, though.
If it is, 'Man Utd, what's the point', then that is capitulation, and I am very surprised. It doesn't seem PL's style. It is very definitely down to him to sort it out though.
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I totally disagree with the SVC "physical strength" observation
I think it is mental strength. Hence the early giving of goals in matches.
I think the physical strength/size is an issue. Look how we were bullied out of the games vs Bradford and vs Milwall by technically "inferior" footballers.
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The team should be thankful the crowd haven't turned on them or the manager. Technically we are garbage at times.
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I'am sorry to say this as I had always been a huge fan of Lambert since he was in Norwich's books.
But now his tactical inaptitude is proved beyond any reasonable doubts, and it induces me to think that the brave manager of Norwich is the brother of our Paul Lambert.
We do not have a game plan apart from catenaccio and counter-attack.
But we are Villa, the inventors of football, not West Ham or Stoke!
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Another capitulation to man u.
This fixture is a right off for us. It's as simple as that. They could field 11 amoeba's and win comfortably.
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His buying policy is biting him on the arse.
I wouldn't send him to tesco to buy potatoes because he would come back with a spare tyre for a Segway .
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Another capitulation to man u.
This fixture is a right off for us. It's as simple as that. They could field 11 amoeba's and win comfortably.
Aren't both of them under contract to Newcastle?
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So many posts saying its so predictable, yet going on as if you're shocked.
We lost to Manchester United. It's what we do.
Please move on.
My take on things too.
Garbage - even Cardiff competed against them. Our lot surrendered . Not one player pressed Giggs or Rooney.
And Baker was bloody shocking tbh, so was Sylla. We just do not have the quality inside the squad to compete at the moment tbh.
All is not lost though, onto the next game and then we can have another good moan. UTV.
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So many posts saying its so predictable, yet going on as if you're shocked.
We lost to Manchester United. It's what we do.
Please move on.
My take on things too.
Garbage - even Cardiff competed against them. Our lot surrendered . Not one player pressed Giggs or Rooney.
And Baker was bloody shocking tbh, so was Sylla. We just do not have the quality inside the squad to compete at the moment tbh.
All is not lost though, onto the next game and then we can have another good moan. UTV.
It's not like this capitulation stains an otherwise outstanding season. The team is shit and we'll be relegated within a few seasons unless we buy some decent players.
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Where the fuck is N'Zogbia ? What on earth is going on down the villa ?
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No quality end of. Buying potential will bite us in the arse without some experience and quality to back it up. The last 3 seasons have really started to take a toll on me and visiting VP is becoming a chore. Regarding the atmosphere, the dozens of half Villa/Man Utd scarves tells you all you need to know. That was in the Upper Holte too.
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Where the fuck is N'Zogbia ? What on earth is going on down the villa ?
I'll bring you up to speed. He's injured.
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Where the fuck is N'Zogbia ? What on earth is going on down the villa ?
I'll bring you up to speed. He's injured.
Is he though ?
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I totally disagree with the SVC "physical strength" observation
I think it is mental strength. Hence the early giving of goals in matches.
I think the physical strength/size is an issue. Look how we were bullied out of the games vs Bradford and vs Milwall by technically "inferior" footballers.
No doubt.
The tackles by Lowton and Baker were late retribution after the point when it mattered. Frustration at being thrown about like rag dolls. Reducers need to be delivered early.
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So many posts saying its so predictable, yet going on as if you're shocked.
We lost to Manchester United. It's what we do.
Please move on.
My take on things too.
Garbage - even Cardiff competed against them. Our lot surrendered . Not one player pressed Giggs or Rooney.
And Baker was bloody shocking tbh, so was Sylla. We just do not have the quality inside the squad to compete at the moment tbh.
All is not lost though, onto the next game and then we can have another good moan. UTV.
It's not like this capitulation stains an otherwise outstanding season. The team is shit and we'll be relegated within a few seasons unless we buy some decent players.
That is sadly the way it's heading. Benteke and Delph won't stick around. Vlaars injury record is always a concern and even so, the club may at some point feel the need to cash in while they can and replace him with a 20 year old for around a million quid.
We sell our better assets and buy more punts. The trouble is the likes of a Benteke are once in a blue moon signings. I really like Kozak. He's a hard worker but is he going to lead the line in a mid-table side? No he's not. He'll galantly scrab away and get around the dozen mark, but it won't quite be enough to save us in a year, or two years.
I don't look at the likes of Tonev, Luna, Bowery, KEA and believe they'll ever be Prem quality. I look at our slightly better prospects like Bacuna, Lowton, Westwood and I'm still not convinced they've got it in them to be anything more than bottom half quality players. At their best they'll be treading that line between being Championship standard, or low end Prem quality.
I think for the likes of Benteke and Okore, they can expect to move on to greater heights (if they reach their potential). We're a stepping stone. Those were signings we got right. But for everyone that pays off for Lambert, there's 3-4 which are questionnable to say the least. You'd say the odds are stacked against us to sign a front man with anything like Bentekes quality if/when he goes. You might argue we could re-sign Heskey and get someone as good, given the way Benteke is playing right now, but obviously we know his potential. I don't see anything like that sort of potential in any of Lamberts other signings, bar Okore.
Continually signing players who "might" be premier league standard in 2-3 years time will only lead us to one direction. The championship. It will happen eventually unless we change our buying policy to include more experience and better quality.
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His buying policy is biting him on the arse.
I wouldn't send him to tesco to buy potatoes because he would come back with a spare tyre for a Segway .
Well once you replace the tyre on your Segway you can fetch potatoes yourself in double quick time. That is management however today is not a good example of that!
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His buying policy is biting him on the arse.
I wouldn't send him to tesco to buy potatoes because he would come back with a spare tyre for a Segway .
This for me. And FFD has said the same for some time now and i tend to agree with him. We have very little quality in most of the positions that we need it. Young and Hungry ? Yes, but please let us get some experience amongst the first team, or else we are fu..ed.
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His buying policy is biting him on the arse.
I wouldn't send him to tesco to buy potatoes because he would come back with a spare tyre for a Segway .
This for me. And FFD has said the same for some time now and i tend to agree with him. We have very little quality in most of the positions that we need it. Young and Hungry ? Yes, but please let us get some experience amongst the first team, or else we are fu..ed.
It would be nice to find the middle ground between O Neill and Lambert. We don't want to cripple the finances again of course, but we can't just keep taking punts on kids from lower leagues, or piss poor standard leagues like Bulgaria.
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Did any of our players run after Utd players after the final whistle begging for shirts ? Like Lowton did to Berbatov last Sunday . Pathetic.
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So many posts saying its so predictable, yet going on as if you're shocked.
We lost to Manchester United. It's what we do.
Please move on.
My take on things too.
Garbage - even Cardiff competed against them. Our lot surrendered . Not one player pressed Giggs or Rooney.
And Baker was bloody shocking tbh, so was Sylla. We just do not have the quality inside the squad to compete at the moment tbh.
All is not lost though, onto the next game and then we can have another good moan. UTV.
I saw young Sylla getting stuck in and disrupting attacks in front of me lots of the time - I was at the top of the Trinity Road. Liked Westwood, Clark and Brad's consistency as well.
There was somebody trying passes over and forward, but not always somebody else running on to them. A bit like Rooney to Welbeck without ...well, you get it. El Ahmadi got stuck in as well and put through passes to Albrighton, and Matt Lowton was popping up to cross into their penalty area all the time when Villa were getting it together.
The first ball to hit CB's head in their penalty area came when the match was halfway though the second half. That was the real problem. Where was he going to get a goal from?
A lot to get right for next time but they are actually better than last season, I think.
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His buying policy is biting him on the arse.
I wouldn't send him to tesco to buy potatoes because he would come back with a spare tyre for a Segway .
This for me. And FFD has said the same for some time now and i tend to agree with him. We have very little quality in most of the positions that we need it. Young and Hungry ? Yes, but please let us get some experience amongst the first team, or else we are fu..ed.
It would be nice to find the middle ground between O Neill and Lambert. We don't want to cripple the finances again of course, but we can't just keep taking punts on kids from lower leagues, or piss poor standard leagues like Bulgaria.
It would be nice, but it is unlikely to happen. PL genuinely believes he is on the right path and it suits RL to share his vision. It would be good to have a time frame of when this strategy will come to fruition, but that is also unlikely.
When I say unlikely, by the way, I mean never ever. Or nevuh evuh as The Gnasher used to say.
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@StrideSteve: Poorest Villa v Man Utd match and atmosphere that I can remember. http://t.co/MZ2fIx8tlu
I have a lot of time and respect for Steve but that was just ridiculous.
I think he just about called it right: United were not particularly good; the atmosphere was pretty low-key and the Villa display pucntuated by some awful individual performances.
From what I can remember Steve Stride was around in the 80's so unless he has a short memory it is a ridiculous comment.
I seem to remember a December game in the Turner years where a United side that included Colin Gibson who we practically gave away to them transfer fee wise stuck three past us and I'm pretty sure the attendance was a tad short of 40,000.
No, that's the 26000 I mentioned the post above.
Was that the 3-3 when Garry Thompson scored two to bring us back from 3-1 down. Another shit striker Peter Davenport scored for them.
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His buying policy is biting him on the arse.
I wouldn't send him to tesco to buy potatoes because he would come back with a spare tyre for a Segway .
This for me. And FFD has said the same for some time now and i tend to agree with him. We have very little quality in most of the positions that we need it. Young and Hungry ? Yes, but please let us get some experience amongst the first team, or else we are fu..ed.
It would be nice to find the middle ground between O Neill and Lambert. We don't want to cripple the finances again of course, but we can't just keep taking punts on kids from lower leagues, or piss poor standard leagues like Bulgaria.
Agreed Tom, but will it happen, i just have this nagging doubt that it won't mate. We need 2-3 old heads in our team to settle the young lads, sod the wages, sod Lamberts arrogance, get them in asap, or is Lambert not ready for success ? It is making me think at the moment, about our clubs ambitions, or the lack of ambitions. Arte we just going to be happy with a mid table finish, so Lerner gets some cash back, or are we going to go for it and join the fight that is top class football ? Spend some cash ffs Lerner, or get out of the game. We cannot just amble along like this forever, just because we are in the Premier league is not good enough. We won the League and the bloody European Cup, Super cup for fuck sake, and now it is considered a good result to get a draw against the bloody stripey filth. Have a fu..in word with ourselves please.
We are not where or what we should be. Nowhere near. UTV.
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His buying policy is biting him on the arse.
I wouldn't send him to tesco to buy potatoes because he would come back with a spare tyre for a Segway .
I tend to agree.
We have one of the weakest squads in the Premier League, choc full of deeply unconvincing players.
Buying and improving young, cheap players is admirable, but let's be honest, if it were that easy, everyone would be doing it.
I also struggle to shake off the suspicion that one reason the club hierarchy love it so much as a strategy is that it's the cheapest one.
Look at our squad and ask yourself how many of those players would be coveted by other teams? Last year, it was two. Guzan and Benteke. This year it is two, Guzan and Delph (and let's be honest, it's not like we'd be fighting off the advances of Real Madrid for him, he's just better than the rest of the dross).
Everywhere you look in that squad, there are players who patently are not (yet) good enough to play in the top flight. Baker, Clark, Luna (FFS, what a clown he is, but hey, he's got a funny nickname, so let's all overlook the "being shit" part), Lowton (who seems to think he's Cafu after a spell of about 2 months when he did OK), Bennett, KEA (one good match in ten is nowhere near good enough), Westwood (ditto) - maybe one or two of those players in amongst some more experienced heads and we'd do better, but this throwing them all in together shit does not work.
It was acceptable last season as we had some extenuating circumstances, and Lambert looked like he was trying to change the way we play, but this season so far we've gone backwards, we're the least footballing football side in this division.
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Beijing Red 4 Lyf @Moyes_Must_Go
I LIKE THIS LITTLE CLUB ASTON VILLAGE, THEY SHOWING MUFC INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF RESPECT TO LET WELBECK AND CLEVERLY SCORE.
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Beijing Red 4 Lyf @Moyes_Must_Go
I LIKE THIS LITTLE CLUB ASTON VILLAGE, THEY SHOWING MUFC INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF RESPECT TO LET WELBECK AND CLEVERLY SCORE.
And that pretendy twat can go f..k himself as well. Knob.
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We had less than 30k three home games on the trot against them in the 80s.
85/86 27,626
86/87 29,205
88/89 28,332
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They were indolent shites today..nothing more to compliment them with..indolent shites in extremis!!!
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Fair and accurate dissection of our defensive play today by Mills and Lawro on MOTD2.
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Beijing Red 4 Lyf @Moyes_Must_Go
I LIKE THIS LITTLE CLUB ASTON VILLAGE, THEY SHOWING MUFC INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF RESPECT TO LET WELBECK AND CLEVERLY SCORE.
And that pretendy twat can go f..k himself as well. Knob.
I think he's quite funny.
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Fair and accurate dissection of our defensive play today by Mills and Lawro on MOTD2.
Yes I saw that but they did not acknowledge anything that Sylla did to stop passes, which is what I saw, today. Sorry, he may have not got everything right but there were numerous times he cut off a move that was aimed to go straight past him, and I cheered that every time.
I think there may be easier targets.
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I'm still a Lambert fan (just about) but we were shit again today. Sylla has been found out, Luna is shocking, Baker a last resort, Kea is shite, Westwood a passenger. Please don't get me started on 'The Beast.'
A malaise is hanging over our club and we will fall down the trap sooner or later unless we invest correctly.
We need to stop talking about 'the project' and wages and realise the fans need to be entertained. I dread home games.
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Would personally like to know when Lawro became the Voice Of Truth, given the usual comments about his verisimilitude about anything about football on here!
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I'm still a Lambert fan (just about) but we were shit again today. Sylla has been found out, Luna is shocking, Baker a last resort, Kea is shite, Westwood a passenger. Please don't get me started on 'The Beast.'
The thing is:
Sylla came from the French second division less than a year ago.
Westwood came from Crewe Alexandra, League One, a little over a year ago
Luna came from Sevilla reserves for a paltry amount of money
KEA came from being average in a league which is renowned for making players look better than they are
Lowton came from League One
Joe Bennett came from League One
Bowery came from League Two
Tonev came from looking OKish in Poland
Bacuna came from Groeningen's reserves
There's a recurrent theme here - they're all cheap purchases, they'll all be on comparatively low wages, and none of them have consistently played at the top level.
It's not like there are no signs telling us they're going to struggle. That's what happened last season, to those who were here, and that is what is happening this season.
It seems a foolhardly policy to push on with so many players who aren't experienced at this level of football, and we're now starting to see that it's really, really hard to play at the top level, and a lot of them plainly can't do it.
Some of them can't do it yet and might go on to do so, but it seems to me to be a tad dangerous to just assume that they just need time to bed in and then they're going to come good.
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I think Lawro's demotion move to MotD2 has shook him up a bit and he is taking more interest in the actual football, I thought he summed it up correctly.
I am going to look up verisimilitude and than respond again!
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If you buy shit meat from Europe you get a shit meal - every time .
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I think Lawreo's demotion move to MotD2 has shook him up a bit and he is taking more interest in the actual football, I thought he summed it up correctly.
I am going to look up verisimilitude and than respond again!
Can this Verisimilitude play full back?
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Lowton came from League One
Joe Bennett came from League One
Bowery came from League Two
Tonev came from looking OKish in Poland
Bacuna came from Groeningen's reserves
They were relegated from Polish Ekstraklasa last season!
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I'm still a Lambert fan (just about) but we were shit again today. Sylla has been found out, Luna is shocking, Baker a last resort, Kea is shite, Westwood a passenger. Please don't get me started on 'The Beast.'
The thing is:
Sylla came from the French second division less than a year ago.
Westwood came from Crewe Alexandra, League One, a little over a year ago
Luna came from Sevilla reserves for a paltry amount of money
KEA came from being average in a league which is renowned for making players look better than they are
Lowton came from League One
Joe Bennett came from League One
Bowery came from League Two
Tonev came from looking OKish in Poland
Bacuna came from Groeningen's reserves
There's a recurrent theme here - they're all cheap purchases, they'll all be on comparatively low wages, and none of them have consistently played at the top level.
It's not like there are no signs telling us they're going to struggle. That's what happened last season, to those who were here, and that is what is happening this season.
It seems a foolhardly policy to push on with so many players who aren't experienced at this level of football, and we're now starting to see that it's really, really hard to play at the top level, and a lot of them plainly can't do it.
Some of them can't do it yet and might go on to do so, but it seems to me to be a tad dangerous to just assume that they just need time to bed in and then they're going to come good.
These are the players who have got the Villa to mid table. They are not the unmitigated crap that some would have them. They are bothered. They play that way. They are able to do much more and I just want to see it a bit more obviously and more effectively.
As do we all, I think.
That is down to the manager and the coaches as well. Oooh! Just get it together.
Verisimilitude. Now, if we could buy him in the window
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If you buy shit meat from Europe you get a shit meal - every time .
Not if you make a vindaloo out of it!
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I think Lawreo's demotion move to MotD2 has shook him up a bit and he is taking more interest in the actual football, I thought he summed it up correctly.
I am going to look up verisimilitude and than respond again!
Can this Verisimilitude play full back?
Not sure but he sounds Belgian. Similar to Vertonghen and Vermaelen!
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But the result would still be .........
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I think Lawro's demotion move to MotD2 has shook him up a bit and he is taking more interest in the actual football, I thought he summed it up correctly.
I am going to look up verisimilitude and than respond again!
I agree he actually said it as it is tonight. Today was awful. We should all get three points for going today. The players should get a bath of custard with a topping of the shite from the tat of the German market crap.
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3 points for going today.
We could club together and get a vat of custard. Hold an H&VERS convention in it.
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Fair and accurate dissection of our defensive play today by Mills and Lawro on MOTD2.
Sadly I have to agree with you Aftab.
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Fair and accurate dissection of our defensive play today by Mills and Lawro on MOTD2.
Sadly I have to agree with you Aftab.
No, really.
How is Lawro suddenly believable this week?
He never has been, before.
I know it wasn't the best Villa performance but I find this acceptance of Lawro's assessment worrying. I hope it is momentary.
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He was spot on for a change.
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3 points for going today.
We could club together and get a vat of custard. Hold an H&VERS convention in it.
Lol.
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He was spot on for a change.
Et tu, Bert?
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It's going to take a good level of investment over 3 years to turn us into anything like a premiership club & I see no sign of that coming.
The next 3-4 weeks are crucial, we might pick up a few points but if we do I'm not being fooled by it. We could just as easily pick up none. People talk about us being a mid table club or that we are in transition, bollocks. Lambert is doing what he can with the instructions to cut the wages & the limited money he's been given.
Mr Lerner, we are heading one way only unless we buy some quality. FFS do something before the life is sucked out of our club.
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I'm still a Lambert fan (just about) but we were shit again today. Sylla has been found out, Luna is shocking, Baker a last resort, Kea is shite, Westwood a passenger. Please don't get me started on 'The Beast.'
The thing is:
Sylla came from the French second division less than a year ago.
Westwood came from Crewe Alexandra, League One, a little over a year ago
Luna came from Sevilla reserves for a paltry amount of money
KEA came from being average in a league which is renowned for making players look better than they are
Lowton came from League One
Joe Bennett came from League One
Bowery came from League Two
Tonev came from looking OKish in Poland
Bacuna came from Groeningen's reserves
There's a recurrent theme here - they're all cheap purchases, they'll all be on comparatively low wages, and none of them have consistently played at the top level.
There are nine names there. Surely the combined fees and wages spent on those nine would have been better used bringing in three more established players?
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It's going to take a good level of investment over 3 years to turn us into anything like a premiership club & I see no sign of that coming.
The next 3-4 weeks are crucial, we might pick up a few points but if we do I'm not being fooled by it. We could just as easily pick up none. People talk about us being a mid table club or that we are in transition, bollocks. Lambert is doing what he can with the instructions to cut the wages & the limited money he's been given.
Mr Lerner, we are heading one way only unless we buy some quality. FFS do something before the life is sucked out of our club.
Have to disagree slightly with that. One or two good purchases in key positions (full back and attacking midfield) and a return to form for some of our current players (mainly Gabby, Benteke and Weimann) and we'd comfortably be a top ten side. One of the main problems is that the options in the squad to cover injuries and loss of form aren't good enough at the moment.
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Bacuna didn't come from the reserves. He played over 100 league games and only recently turned 22. 30 odd games for them last season.
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Fair and accurate dissection of our defensive play today by Mills and Lawro on MOTD2.
Yes I saw that but they did not acknowledge anything that Sylla did to stop passes, which is what I saw, today. Sorry, he may have not got everything right but there were numerous times he cut off a move that was aimed to go straight past him, and I cheered that every time.
I think there may be easier targets.
I'm afraid I saw Sylla being taken to the cleaners by Rafael for the first goal, a far-post header woefully off-target and a edge-of-the box curled shot that threatened the lower-Holte occupants.
He was poor today - as he has been for most of the season - and should not have started ahead of Bacuna.
His presence on the left compounded the problems we were having with Luna and Baker being so inept.
But - after a night's sleep - I'd say that "we are where we are" and PL has to find ways of making better use of the squad of players that he has: (i) playing further up the pitch would be one good start; (ii) using players like Herd, Bacuna, Daniel Johnson and ALbrighton in MF would seem to give us more energy and bite than KEA and Sylla; (iii) finding some variety to come off the bench would be good, to change things rather than just change players; (iv) stop expecting Baker and Guzan to deliver the ball from the back (as soon as they have the ball, it becomes 50:50 possession rather than 100% possession); (v) get Gabby and Benteke to hold the ball up a little more, to give us a chance of attacking in numbers.
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I'm still a Lambert fan (just about) but we were shit again today. Sylla has been found out, Luna is shocking, Baker a last resort, Kea is shite, Westwood a passenger. Please don't get me started on 'The Beast.'
The thing is:
Sylla came from the French second division less than a year ago.
Westwood came from Crewe Alexandra, League One, a little over a year ago
Luna came from Sevilla reserves for a paltry amount of money
KEA came from being average in a league which is renowned for making players look better than they are
Lowton came from League One
Joe Bennett came from League One
Bowery came from League Two
Tonev came from looking OKish in Poland
Bacuna came from Groeningen's reserves
There's a recurrent theme here - they're all cheap purchases, they'll all be on comparatively low wages, and none of them have consistently played at the top level.
There are nine names there. Surely the combined fees and wages spent on those nine would have been better used bringing in three more established players?
We tried that with Given, Hutton and N'Zogbia.
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Fair and accurate dissection of our defensive play today by Mills and Lawro on MOTD2.
Sadly I have to agree with you Aftab.
No, really.
How is Lawro suddenly believable this week?
He never has been, before.
I know it wasn't the best Villa performance but I find this acceptance of Lawro's assessment worrying. I hope it is momentary.
Monkeys and typewriters.
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I'm still a Lambert fan (just about) but we were shit again today. Sylla has been found out, Luna is shocking, Baker a last resort, Kea is shite, Westwood a passenger. Please don't get me started on 'The Beast.'
The thing is:
Sylla came from the French second division less than a year ago.
Westwood came from Crewe Alexandra, League One, a little over a year ago
Luna came from Sevilla reserves for a paltry amount of money
KEA came from being average in a league which is renowned for making players look better than they are
Lowton came from League One
Joe Bennett came from League One
Bowery came from League Two
Tonev came from looking OKish in Poland
Bacuna came from Groeningen's reserves
There's a recurrent theme here - they're all cheap purchases, they'll all be on comparatively low wages, and none of them have consistently played at the top level.
It's not like there are no signs telling us they're going to struggle. That's what happened last season, to those who were here, and that is what is happening this season.
It seems a foolhardly policy to push on with so many players who aren't experienced at this level of football, and we're now starting to see that it's really, really hard to play at the top level, and a lot of them plainly can't do it.
Some of them can't do it yet and might go on to do so, but it seems to me to be a tad dangerous to just assume that they just need time to bed in and then they're going to come good.
Kea and Bennett cost a few quid didnt they?
Lambert had clearly scouted Kea for a long time, pre Villa. Bennett to me seemed a panic signing, we were really after Cresswell and Bennett seemed number two choice. Boro fans were far from enamoured with him and he was physically nowhere near ready for the step up.
Sometimes signings work out and sometimes they dont. What is deeply flawed in the Lambert/Lerner approach is not supplementing these players with solid experienced pro's like Gareth Barry and others that could do a short term job for us but assist in the development of the younger players too. The ability to be able to bring the likes of Westwood out of the firing line is sadly missing at the moment due to a lack of options which might cause him more harm than good long term.
To be honest in the list above, I would have hopes for Westwood, Lowton and Bacuna making the grade. Already I'm afraid Tonev and Sylla look like lost causes. The rest are nowhere near good enough.
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Ferguson makes a lot of sense in his book about the gamble you take signing cheaper players. When he was at Aberdeen on a tight budget he actually signed very few players, preferring to save his pennies and target a few that would almost certainly improve the team.
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A Savage analysis (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25393367)
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I'm still a Lambert fan (just about) but we were shit again today. Sylla has been found out, Luna is shocking, Baker a last resort, Kea is shite, Westwood a passenger. Please don't get me started on 'The Beast.'
The thing is:
Sylla came from the French second division less than a year ago.
Westwood came from Crewe Alexandra, League One, a little over a year ago
Luna came from Sevilla reserves for a paltry amount of money
KEA came from being average in a league which is renowned for making players look better than they are
Lowton came from League One
Joe Bennett came from League One
Bowery came from League Two
Tonev came from looking OKish in Poland
Bacuna came from Groeningen's reserves
There's a recurrent theme here - they're all cheap purchases, they'll all be on comparatively low wages, and none of them have consistently played at the top level.
It's not like there are no signs telling us they're going to struggle. That's what happened last season, to those who were here, and that is what is happening this season.
It seems a foolhardly policy to push on with so many players who aren't experienced at this level of football, and we're now starting to see that it's really, really hard to play at the top level, and a lot of them plainly can't do it.
Some of them can't do it yet and might go on to do so, but it seems to me to be a tad dangerous to just assume that they just need time to bed in and then they're going to come good.
Brilliant post.
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Will catch up on the other comments soon but for me we managed to do something no other team has achieved this season - make a poor Manure side look like Champions Champions league winners!
Every home game is a 350 mile round trip for me, ple make ty of time to focus on the positives but I am getting weary of being let down by players who I can accept are good enough but cant accept lack of effort
These are all now Lamberts players and whilst I think there is some potential in there overall we are mediocre. Did the wrong Midlands manager get sacked this weekend? That depends on our ambition. Clearly WBA have some but im not sure we do. I dont accept its a project because if it is we have the wrong man leading it. On the other hand if we have no money to give a new manager as Fulham, Palace and WBA will do we just have to stick with Lambert. Three "Cup Ginals" before the year end will tell whether I am just feeling hungover this morning!
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So many posts saying its so predictable, yet going on as if you're shocked.
We lost to Manchester United. It's what we do.
Please move on.
It's not the defeat amfy - it's the manner of the defeat
Really?
So you've not seen better Villa sides than this throw away 2 goal leads?
The best thing I heard today was someone say at half time 'Cheer up - it could be worse, we could be 2 goals up!'
There was nothing in the manner of this defeat that was worse than previous years. We came out fighting, we'd had 3 shots in target before their first attack where they scored from a strike off the post that fell straight to one of theirs - of course. They're in a bad run but no-one was kidding themselves before KO that we had a better team.
A couple of injuries will hurt us more than half a dozen of theirs for a few years yet. (at least)
This is where we are, you can choose to carry on being angry about it every week or accept that this is your team. They're not the European Champions - that was 30 years ago. They're not the team that won the FA Cup the most times because we haven't won it since 1957.
This is your team Aston Villa 2013. You can get behind them if you like.
My own view is that despite the result this was be of our better home performances this year. Loads better than Sunderland. This isn't a fixture I particularly expect anything from. Maybe last week, before they'd already lost 2 in a row & before Delph's suspension I may have had some hope , but look at the re-match thread - who genuinely saw anything else here?
I preferred last year's match to this year - it was exciting. That may be shallow but there you go.
We played for 15 minutes and had three relatively tame shots from distance - I was enjoying myself at this point.
I know this is Aston Villa 2013 and I still turn up week after week - I have an opinion as to what I see on the pitch just like when I go to the cinema and pay to see a film.
I expected us to lose but I would love to be proved wrong once in a while.
Thought the performance against Everton was the best thing so far.
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A Savage analysis (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25393367)
Hate to say it but he's pretty much summed up the issues.
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I thought we were very bright for 15 minutes, but goals change games. Man United might not be the force they were, but they’re still a top six side, so if you gift them two goals as we did, then you’re going to struggle.
I was pleased with how well Albrighton performed. He was very direct and full of purpose; good on him.
The issue we had in my opinion was similar to the previous week with long diagonals targeting a full back, with Valencia pressed right on Luna, with no cover from Gabby. Rooney was putting in some excellent balls from deep and our midfield wasn’t pressing them enough to stop the supply.
I came home and saw Liverpool squeeze and press the life out of Tottenham and wish we could have done the same.
I think the midfield is two players light; we need an attacking player for certain. When we do have the ball wide, there is often acres and acres of space in the midfield where nobody seems to go and occupy. I think it makes it far too easy for the opposition to keep their shape, as there are no midfield runners pulling people out of position or even being ready to receive the ball in the final third.
I also think we need a defensive midfielder who is physically capable of dominating the game. Too many players just don’t seem to be up to it thus far. In fairness to Sylla, he was playing second division football in France last season.
It’s a pity we have our third and fourth choice centre halves playing again at this time of year; Clark I think has developed, but there is always a mistake in them.
We have three games now where we need to be targeting 7 points, 5 at the least and then we can move on in January and see if the elusive midfielders can be turned up from somewhere to help us click again.
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A Savage analysis (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25393367)
Hate to say it but he's pretty much summed up the issues.
Depressing. Almost a case of give Villa the ball and they save you the trouble of doing it yourselves and will set something up for you.
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Where the fuck is N'Zogbia ? What on earth is going on down the villa ?
Injured but, judging by his shirt number, never likely to play again very often even when fit.
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A Savage analysis (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25393367)
Hate to say it but he's pretty much summed up the issues.
Yep, and then suggested we go 4-4-2 and keep more possession - totally contradictory pieces of advice.
I didn't think we were actually that bad to be honest. In fact, I thought the performance was a massive improvement on recent weeks, and frankly our biggest problem was shooting from long range as soon as we got within 25 yards of goal, rather than having the calm to make our patience up to that point count.
In terms of possession the general analysis is 56%-44% in their favour, but considering how much time-wasting possession they had when in the lead it shows what I felt during the game: that we were passing better than usual and more than usual. In a normal match, the way we passed would have kept us in it.
But it wasn't a normal game. It was a game against Man Utd having a dead cat bounce, not helped by our left-back playing like he was, in fact, a dead cat. Too many individual errors, and they were always going to capitalise every time. Delph and especially Vlaar cannot return soon enough.
But there were bright points as well, especially Albrighton, whose return to the side pleased me and whose directness and ability to worm his way through defenders was something we've been missing all season. I think if we play like that against most of the teams in the division then we at least have the better chance of winning. Sadly, it was Man U-f****ing-nited.
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At one nil you always have a chance, but to then gift them a goal so cheaply so soon after their first and to do the same thing again so soon after the break is going to kill you.
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At one nil you always have a chance, but to then gift them a goal so cheaply so soon after their first and to do the same thing again so soon after the break is going to kill you.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot or in both feet. We needed three feet for the bullets yesterday.
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It was the lack of closing down which annoyed me more than anything yesterday. We had three centre midfielders playing and you couldn't really tell. When we did decide to try and win the ball, we looked a better team for it.
As for the subs bench, I did'nt really get why Bowery was named on there bearing in mind we already had Kozak and Weimann as back up strikers. I'd rather see a young un out the reserves get a chance to sample a first team match day.
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It was the lack of closing down which annoyed me more than anything yesterday. We had three centre midfielders playing and you couldn't really tell. When we did decide to try and win the ball, we looked a better team for it.
As for the subs bench, I did'nt really get why Bowery was named on there bearing in mind we already had Kozak and Weimann as back up strikers. I'd rather see a young un out the reserves get a chance to sample a first team match day.
Yep we had 3 CM's up against Utds 2, including a 40 year old. Giggs and Cleverely completely controlled midfield with ease. But that's the difference, Giggsy has a footballing brain and 23 years of experience, while Cleverely may not be quite the standard Utd expect, but is a good quality Premiership footballer.
We had three midfielders who aren't really good enough to be playing every week at this level. In the case of KEA, I hope I never see him in a Villa shirt again. Extremely poor player indeed. Sometimes I wonder if he isn't some kind of prank played on us, like George Weahs "cousin" who played a game for Souness at Southampton.
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I'm still a Lambert fan (just about) but we were shit again today. Sylla has been found out, Luna is shocking, Baker a last resort, Kea is shite, Westwood a passenger. Please don't get me started on 'The Beast.'
The thing is:
Sylla came from the French second division less than a year ago.
Westwood came from Crewe Alexandra, League One, a little over a year ago
Luna came from Sevilla reserves for a paltry amount of money
KEA came from being average in a league which is renowned for making players look better than they are
Lowton came from League One
Joe Bennett came from League One
Bowery came from League Two
Tonev came from looking OKish in Poland
Bacuna came from Groeningen's reserves
There's a recurrent theme here - they're all cheap purchases, they'll all be on comparatively low wages, and none of them have consistently played at the top level.
There are nine names there. Surely the combined fees and wages spent on those nine would have been better used bringing in three more established players?
We tried that with Given, Hutton and N'Zogbia.
That assumes that any more expensive player is going to fail. You could also say we tried it with Young, Downing and Milner.
There's no guarantee that spending more is going to equal success but it is more likely to get you a decent player than fishing around the lower leagues.
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It was the lack of closing down which annoyed me more than anything yesterday. We had three centre midfielders playing and you couldn't really tell. When we did decide to try and win the ball, we looked a better team for it.
As for the subs bench, I did'nt really get why Bowery was named on there bearing in mind we already had Kozak and Weimann as back up strikers. I'd rather see a young un out the reserves get a chance to sample a first team match day.
The three goals came from individual errors - Sylla, Baker and Luna, respectively (and all down our left).
So, we gifted an indifferent MU team the game.
What really boiled my piss was the lack of a response to this and the absence of tactical or player variety from the bench. I would like to have seen GG and Bacuna on in MF at half-time to give the game some energy and vitality; bringing on Weimann with 15 to go just seemed so token.
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Yep and established doesn't necessarily have to equate to Given, Hutton and N'Zogbia type signings. We can buy better quality from similar standard leagues. Buying from France, relatively cheaply too, is paying off for Newcastle at the moment.
There's clubs in the top flights of France, Germany, Spain and Italy, all crying out for cash and who'd probably sell decent players for reasonable prices. These were the sort of signings Houllier was looking at, like Cabaye. That should be our market now as much as possible. Likewise a signing or two more of Vlaars ilk would improve us. He had a decent reputation in Holland, and though injuries haven't helped him, he's looked good this season. KEA on the other hand was a strange signing. Bacuna has potential, but again, he's a long way off.
It would help us no end.
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There's a plastic at work who has had 2 snidey digs already this morning, I asked him where he was sat yesterday and astonishingly enough he wasn't at the game.
They really are wankers aren't they?
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The highlight for me was when Fletcher came on. My wife suffers with the same thing, so delighted to see him back.
Which unfortunately says little for the rest of the game. Albrighton's best game in a Villa shirt for me. I thought Westwood played ok, and Luna is starting to get back to his best. But, like the England cricket team, if we gift them goals (wickets), we are in trouble.
I fecking hate United. And the referee seemed more than a little biased to me.
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There's a plastic at work who has had 2 snidey digs already this morning, I asked him where he was sat yesterday and astonishingly enough he wasn't at the game.
They really are wankers aren't they?
They usually claim to have an uncle from Manchester who brought them up on tales of Munich and George Best. Which is strange, because whilst I accept people can marry people from other areas, all of my aunts and uncles are from the same part of the world as my mum or my dad. But every Brummie red has a Mancunian uncle.
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It was the lack of closing down which annoyed me more than anything yesterday. We had three centre midfielders playing and you couldn't really tell. When we did decide to try and win the ball, we looked a better team for it.
As for the subs bench, I did'nt really get why Bowery was named on there bearing in mind we already had Kozak and Weimann as back up strikers. I'd rather see a young un out the reserves get a chance to sample a first team match day.
It was a gutless effort - as bad as anything served up under McLeish - and I include Tottenham away in that. Pathetic.
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This is what I think about our players for all it matters.
Guzan Consistently good
Lowton Defensively incompetent, could come good in time.
Luna Awful in the extreme
Baker Has gone back drastically this season very poor.
Clark Still think hes a defensive midfielder but has played well next to Vlaar.
Vlaar Excellent
Westwood Too lightweight Im afraid but passes the ball well over 15-20 yds. Doesnt create chances
Delph Obviously our best midfielder but doesnt create and doesnt score on a consistent basis
Sylla Worth a gamble but very short of what is required
Gabby. Sometimes hes good other times he is not. Too old to change.
Benteke. He's a mystery which even Morse couldnt solve!
Weimann. Has all the aggression without much skill to supplement it
Kozak Has shown improvement, worth a run.
Bacuna Like him, could come good.
On a match related note it was good to see Darren Fletcher come back from such a serious condition. I hope he gets a chance under Moyes.
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It was the lack of closing down which annoyed me more than anything yesterday. We had three centre midfielders playing and you couldn't really tell. When we did decide to try and win the ball, we looked a better team for it.
As for the subs bench, I did'nt really get why Bowery was named on there bearing in mind we already had Kozak and Weimann as back up strikers. I'd rather see a young un out the reserves get a chance to sample a first team match day.
The three goals came from individual errors - Sylla, Baker and Luna, respectively (and all down our left).
So, we gifted an indifferent MU team the game.
What really boiled my piss was the lack of a response to this and the absence of tactical or player variety from the bench. I would like to have seen GG and Bacuna on in MF at half-time to give the game some energy and vitality; bringing on Weimann with 15 to go just seemed so token.
Also for the first goal there were 2 men on him but he still got the cross over - unacceptable - all 3 goals were piss poor defending.
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This is what I think about our players for all it matters.
Guzan Consistently good
Lowton Defensively incompetent, could come good in time.
Luna Awful in the extreme
Baker Has gone back drastically this season very poor.
Clark Still think hes a defensive midfielder but has played well next to Vlaar.
Vlaar Excellent
Westwood Too lightweight Im afraid but passes the ball well over 15-20 yds. Doesnt create chances
Delph Obviously our best midfielder but doesnt create and doesnt score on a consistent basis
Sylla Worth a gamble but very short of what is required
Gabby. Sometimes hes good other times he is not. Too old to change.
Benteke. He's a mystery which even Morse couldnt solve!
Weimann. Has all the aggression without much skill to supplement it
Kozak Has shown improvement, worth a run.
Bacuna Like him, could come good.
On a match related note it was good to see Darren Fletcher come back from such a serious condition. I hope he gets a chance under Moyes.
That you've forgotten KEA in that list, says everything about KEA as a player. Other than that, wholly agreed on all the above.
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and Luna is starting to get back to his best.
I'm hoping you mis-typed this bit!
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and Luna is starting to get back to wearing his vest
I'm hoping you mis-typed this bit!
Fixed
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Substitute any match thread against these since the late Neolithic period and save a lot of effort.
We were without both first choice centre backs, our best midfield player and Benteke performing like a poor man's Marlon and were second best from the moment the first goal went in. Baker is fucking useless.
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Can't remember us having a left back as poor as Luna. He's absolute shit and he was embarrassing yet again yesterday. No wonder he spent the previous 2 seasons put on loan in Spain.
This is what happens when you try and do things on the cheap. Cheers Randy!
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Tactically we were awful again. Luna was awful but he had no support. We gave the ball away time and tiem again and never once ot in behind them as we dont have any creative spark in midfield. No creative set pieces - our corner delivery is attrocious.
All in all, I cannot believe the crowds we are getting to watch the worst football on show for over 25 years.
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At least Bakers incredibly poor distribution and positioning allowed him to fly into some tackles which was about the highlight for excitement, I thought him incredibly lucky, along with a few Utd players, to stay on the field.
Another thing, that Utd team has been shorn of a lot of the stars but I thought they played very well particularly Valencia, Welbeck, Rooney and Giggs
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I think Luna may come good, he looked the part in pre-season but he's struggled with the physical side of things and I wonder if his English is the best as he cant surely be instructed to take up some of the positions he finds himself in .
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At least Bakers incredibly poor distribution and positioning allowed him to fly into some tackles which was about the highlight for excitement, I thought him incredibly lucky, along with a few Utd players, to stay on the field.
Another thing, that Utd team has been shorn of a lot of the stars but I thought they played very well particularly Valencia, Welbeck, Rooney and Giggs
Valencia has written letter to Father Christmas asking if he can play against us every week. Possibly the one dayi n his career he will be made to look better than Messi or Ronaldo.
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Luna doesnt look like he can tackle to me. He has let players glide past him time and time again this season. I think he is only good going forward. In the PL you need to do both.
Are we completely devoid of a decent left back at the club? What about the reserves/kids?
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I think Luna may come good, he looked the part in pre-season but he's struggled with the physical side of things and I wonder if his English is the best as he cant surely be instructed to take up some of the positions he finds himself in .
There's no one really on the pitch, particularly minus Vlaar, who can keep people in check. Sometimes players like Luna, young, inexperienced and naive need a bloody good bollocking throughout the game to keep them in position. For Cleverleys goal too, Luna just gave up and stopped running. Cleverley isn't blessed with pace either. That was probably Lunas biggest crime yesterday. If we had a decent, experienced leader in the side he could have kicked Luna up the arse after that, or taken him to the side before kicking off again and just tell him to sort himself out. There's no leadership.
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Luna doesnt look like he can tackle to me. He has let players glide past him time and time again this season. I think he is only good going forward. In the PL you need to do both.
Are we completely devoid of a decent left back at the club? What about the reserves/kids?
When was the last time we had a truly decent Premier League player come from the reserves/kids?
They're not good enough in my opinion. This is what happens when you cut back so hard you have to rely on reserve players, cheap foreigners and lower league fodder. The proof is in the pudding, so they say.
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Luna probably needs time some foreign players often do. People were saying how poor Vlaar was last season and now we're missing him.
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Gabby?
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One goal in the 1st half of the season, not that decent for a forward really.
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I know he's Villa through and through etc and fast as fuck but Agbonlahor is a pretty ordinary player and the fact he's one of our better ones says it all really.
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Luna probably needs time some foreign players often do. People were saying how poor Vlaar was last season and now we're missing him.
Vlaar probably would have settled quicker without his injury last season. I wouldn't say he was poor either, more disappointingly average, but when you look at it, without him last season we were woeful. Without him this season, again, woeful. He's become a key player.
I don't see that potential in Luna. I'm not sure he's got what it takes in this league. His ability on the ball is quite disappointing too, given he's a Spaniard.
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Luna probably needs time some foreign players often do. People were saying how poor Vlaar was last season and now we're missing him.
Vlaar probably would have settled quicker without his injury last season. I wouldn't say he was poor either, more disappointingly average, but when you look at it, without him last season we were woeful. Without him this season, again, woeful. He's become a key player.
I don't see that potential in Luna. I'm not sure he's got what it takes in this league. His ability on the ball is quite disappointing too, given he's a Spaniard.
Yes, Vlaar was a Dutch international too with proven pedigree whereas luna has been loaned out and achieved little.
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Luna probably needs time some foreign players often do. People were saying how poor Vlaar was last season and now we're missing him.
Vlaar probably would have settled quicker without his injury last season. I wouldn't say he was poor either, more disappointingly average, but when you look at it, without him last season we were woeful. Without him this season, again, woeful. He's become a key player.
I don't see that potential in Luna. I'm not sure he's got what it takes in this league. His ability on the ball is quite disappointing too, given he's a Spaniard.
Yes, Vlaar was a Dutch international too with proven pedigree whereas luna has been loaned out and achieved little.
I wouldn't have a problem with Tony as a back up. Playing week in, week out is above him at the moment. What we need is a player similar to Vlaar's level who plays left back. Someone who can come in and compete in this league and also teach Moon and Bennett a thing or two.
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Luna probably needs time some foreign players often do. People were saying how poor Vlaar was last season and now we're missing him.
Vlaar probably would have settled quicker without his injury last season. I wouldn't say he was poor either, more disappointingly average, but when you look at it, without him last season we were woeful. Without him this season, again, woeful. He's become a key player.
I don't see that potential in Luna. I'm not sure he's got what it takes in this league. His ability on the ball is quite disappointing too, given he's a Spaniard.
Yes, Vlaar was a Dutch international too with proven pedigree whereas luna has been loaned out and achieved little.
I wouldn't have a problem with Tony as a back up. Playing week in, week out is above him at the moment. What we need is a player similar to Vlaar's level who plays left back. Someone who can come in and compete in this league and also teach Moon and Bennett a thing or two.
I miss bouma.
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Luna probably needs time some foreign players often do. People were saying how poor Vlaar was last season and now we're missing him.
Vlaar probably would have settled quicker without his injury last season. I wouldn't say he was poor either, more disappointingly average, but when you look at it, without him last season we were woeful. Without him this season, again, woeful. He's become a key player.
I don't see that potential in Luna. I'm not sure he's got what it takes in this league. His ability on the ball is quite disappointing too, given he's a Spaniard.
Yes, Vlaar was a Dutch international too with proven pedigree whereas luna has been loaned out and achieved little.
I wouldn't have a problem with Tony as a back up. Playing week in, week out is above him at the moment. What we need is a player similar to Vlaar's level who plays left back. Someone who can come in and compete in this league and also teach Moon and Bennett a thing or two.
I miss bouma.
Free agent Eastie! ;)
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I thought the best player we've had in that position over the last few years was Luke Young, and he was notionally a right-back, which says it all.
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I thought the best player we've had in that position over the last few years was Luke Young, and he was notionally a right-back, which says it all.
We've had such problems with full backs in recent years, with only sporadic outbreaks of stability. Especially right backs.
MON's funny thing he had about right backs, for example. Not so much who he picked to play there, but the way most of his substitutions entailed a change there (on 75 minutes).
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I thought the best player we've had in that position over the last few years was Luke Young, and he was notionally a right-back, which says it all.
Luke was a solid, reliable player. Again, he represented the bad side in O Neill though, because we paid 5 million for Young, when we could have got him for half that a year earlier.
A bit of experience who could cover both full-back slots would be good.
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Luna doesnt look like he can tackle to me. He has let players glide past him time and time again this season. I think he is only good going forward. In the PL you need to do both.
Are we completely devoid of a decent left back at the club? What about the reserves/kids?
When was the last time we had a truly decent Premier League player come from the reserves/kids?
They're not good enough in my opinion. This is what happens when you cut back so hard you have to rely on reserve players, cheap foreigners and lower league fodder. The proof is in the pudding, so they say.
Disagree with this. Gabby, Weimann, Clark are decent and from the academy. Certainly better than the standard of what Lambert has bought in vs. Luna, Helenius, Bowery, KEA, Sylla, Bennett that have probably cost us close to £12-15m. We have just won a competition for u19s that included all the best in Europe. You are telling me that none of them are as good as the dross mentioned above?
Then you have the likes of Cahill, Whittingham, Ridgewell who have got careers in the PL. Further back you cna count Barry and Vassell who have played in World Cup finals.
This is where Lambert's philosophy doesnt make sense to me. Why blow money on buying lots of unproven youngsters when he could save the money and buy 1-2 decent experienced player and use our own youth academy that is currently seen as the best in the country?
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, and Luna is starting to get back to his best.
really?
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Amongst the lads I go with there was a general consensus at the end of last season that what we needed most going into this year was experience being bought in at left back, centre back and centre midfield. I still think thats the case.
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I know he's Villa through and through etc and fast as fuck but Agbonlahor is a pretty ordinary player and the fact he's one of our better ones says it all really.
this
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Luna doesnt look like he can tackle to me. He has let players glide past him time and time again this season. I think he is only good going forward. In the PL you need to do both.
Are we completely devoid of a decent left back at the club? What about the reserves/kids?
When was the last time we had a truly decent Premier League player come from the reserves/kids?
They're not good enough in my opinion. This is what happens when you cut back so hard you have to rely on reserve players, cheap foreigners and lower league fodder. The proof is in the pudding, so they say.
Disagree with this. Gabby, Weimann, Clark are decent and from the academy. Certainly better than the standard of what Lambert has bought in vs. Luna, Helenius, Bowery, KEA, Sylla, Bennett that have probably cost us close to £12-15m. We have just won a competition for u19s that included all the best in Europe. You are telling me that none of them are as good as the dross mentioned above?
Then you have the likes of Cahill, Whittingham, Ridgewell who have got careers in the PL. Further back you cna count Barry and Vassell who have played in World Cup finals.
This is where Lambert's philosophy doesnt make sense to me. Why blow money on buying lots of unproven youngsters when he could save the money and buy 1-2 decent experienced player and use our own youth academy that is currently seen as the best in the country?
Ridgwell, Davis and Whittingham would actually improve our starting line up to be honest. That might be a sad indictment of our starting 11, but they would.
It doesn't always work with the academy, but had some of our players been used better in the O Neill era, such as Bannan, we might have more success stories in our side now. Baker isn't quite cutting it, but he's being overused. That's not to say Donacian won't make the grade.
I'm happy to give more of our academy a go. Albrighton was our best player yesterday. But he's shown in the past he's got what it takes at this level. He might not be the best player around but I've a hell of a lot more faith in Alby than a player like Tonev for example. Certainly the fact Bowery keeps making it on the bench is bizarre. I cannot fathom the logic in that signing when we've got an academy producing attacking players like Robinson, Grealish, Carruthers, Drennan, Burke, or that officially, Delfouneso is still on our books (again, slightly better handling back when O Neill was here, and he might have fulfilled his potential more by now).
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Luna doesnt look like he can tackle to me. He has let players glide past him time and time again this season. I think he is only good going forward. In the PL you need to do both.
Are we completely devoid of a decent left back at the club? What about the reserves/kids?
When was the last time we had a truly decent Premier League player come from the reserves/kids?
They're not good enough in my opinion. This is what happens when you cut back so hard you have to rely on reserve players, cheap foreigners and lower league fodder. The proof is in the pudding, so they say.
Disagree with this. Gabby, Weimann, Clark are decent and from the academy. Certainly better than the standard of what Lambert has bought in vs. Luna, Helenius, Bowery, KEA, Sylla, Bennett that have probably cost us close to £12-15m. We have just won a competition for u19s that included all the best in Europe. You are telling me that none of them are as good as the dross mentioned above?
Then you have the likes of Cahill, Whittingham, Ridgewell who have got careers in the PL. Further back you cna count Barry and Vassell who have played in World Cup finals.
This is where Lambert's philosophy doesnt make sense to me. Why blow money on buying lots of unproven youngsters when he could save the money and buy 1-2 decent experienced player and use our own youth academy that is currently seen as the best in the country?
and this
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At least Bakers incredibly poor distribution and positioning allowed him to fly into some tackles which was about the highlight for excitement, I thought him incredibly lucky, along with a few Utd players, to stay on the field.
One tackle - I think it was called a "scissors" - was particularly awful. He seems to have learned nothing about how to tackle and how not to tackle at this level, and reminds me of the kind of parks player who is basically just a bully with little or no talent.
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Baker knows how to tackle, but I got the impression that yesterday he was likely shouting "have some of this you ******!" while do his best to hack them down.
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Fair and accurate dissection of our defensive play today by Mills and Lawro on MOTD2.
Sadly I have to agree with you Aftab.
No, really.
How is Lawro suddenly believable this week?
He never has been, before.
I know it wasn't the best Villa performance but I find this acceptance of Lawro's assessment worrying. I hope it is momentary.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. He is a tool - we all know that but at least it looks like he is going to try and contribute. I'd still bin him tomorrow - he has been leeching too much Licence Fee money for too long in return for too little
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He was spot on for a change.
Et tu, Bert?
Ha! You may be pushing water uphill with Sylla, but at least you're in with a shot for post of the week.
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There's a plastic at work who has had 2 snidey digs already this morning, I asked him where he was sat yesterday and astonishingly enough he wasn't at the game.
They really are wankers aren't they?
They usually claim to have an uncle from Manchester who brought them up on tales of Munich and George Best. Which is strange, because whilst I accept people can marry people from other areas, all of my aunts and uncles are from the same part of the world as my mum or my dad. But every Brummie red has a Mancunian uncle.
I had an Auntie from Glasgow - I never supported Queen's Park. Or the Old firm for that matter.
Coincidentally all those in their early to mid 30's started supporting them as far back as 1986. How very convenient.
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Will be Ron and Delph be back for the Stoke game?
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Delph should be, as he was suspended. No idea on Vlaar.
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There's a plastic at work who has had 2 snidey digs already this morning, I asked him where he was sat yesterday and astonishingly enough he wasn't at the game.
They really are wankers aren't they?
You should've responded by saying good job we beat Man. City and Arsenal otherwise you'd be even further off the title race than you currently are. That was my stock response when i got a couple of texts last night!
God they have to be the worst team in the football universe to be our bogey team!
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There's a plastic at work who has had 2 snidey digs already this morning, I asked him where he was sat yesterday and astonishingly enough he wasn't at the game.
They really are wankers aren't they?
You should've responded by saying good job we beat Man. City and Arsenal otherwise you'd be even further off the title race than you currently are. That was my stock response when i got a couple of texts last night!
God they have to be the worst team in the football universe to be our bogey team!
I can think of at least one more
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My stock reply to them
"Comfortable win for you. I am curious about something though, it is something i've often wondered about. What is it like to not be the best club in your city? To see them putting in performances your team can only dream of, signing players far beyond your means as they chase titles while you plod around in midtable? I really am curious as i've never experienced it with my team so am genuinely interested in how humiliating it is."
It gets some interesting responses.
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He was spot on for a change.
Et tu, Bert?
Ha! You may be pushing water uphill with Sylla, but at least you're in with a shot for post of the week.
Ta!
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There's a plastic at work who has had 2 snidey digs already this morning, I asked him where he was sat yesterday and astonishingly enough he wasn't at the game.
They really are wankers aren't they?
You should've responded by saying good job we beat Man. City and Arsenal otherwise you'd be even further off the title race than you currently are. That was my stock response when i got a couple of texts last night!
God they have to be the worst team in the football universe to be our bogey team!
I can think of at least one more
O.k a team in the premier league who actually matters.
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There's a plastic at work who has had 2 snidey digs already this morning, I asked him where he was sat yesterday and astonishingly enough he wasn't at the game.
They really are wankers aren't they?
You should've responded by saying good job we beat Man. City and Arsenal otherwise you'd be even further off the title race than you currently are. That was my stock response when i got a couple of texts last night!
God they have to be the worst team in the football universe to be our bogey team!
I can think of at least one more
O.k a team in the premier league who actually matters.
You have the honour, Sir
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I hate the old stat trotted out that Man U, Chelsea , arsenal, everton, spurs , Liverpool, have all taken more premier points against villa than any other club - it's hardly a damning statistic as we are the only only other club to have survived the premier era besides those 6 .
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It's all very well saying stick the youth players in the first team, but that's something the manager should be doing out of choice, not desperation. By carefully picking the fixtures to play them in, games where they can put in one or two raw talents where they won't come under too much pressure and there are plenty of experienced heads around to keep them on the straight and narrow. A bit like the way you bring a player back from a long-term injury, cf. Fletcher getting a nice easy second-half run-out against a piss-poor side on Sunday when the game was already wrapped up.
I think if Lambert were to stick a few of the youngsters in this struggling side against any Premier League opponents, they'd just get the shit bullied out of them and their youthful confidence would take a battering. Not the way to help their development, if you ask me.
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It's all very well saying stick the youth players in the first team, but that's something the manager should be doing out of choice, not desperation. By carefully picking the fixtures to play them in, games where they can put in one or two raw talents where they won't come under too much pressure and there are plenty of experienced heads around to keep them on the straight and narrow. A bit like the way you bring a player back from a long-term injury, cf. Fletcher getting a nice easy second-half run-out against a piss-poor side on Sunday when the game was already wrapped up.
I think if Lambert were to stick a few of the youngsters in this struggling side against any Premier League opponents, they'd just get the shit bullied out of them and their youthful confidence would take a battering. Not the way to help their development, if you ask me.
We're a side made up mostly of largely untried youngsters though. They're getting bullied as it is. I think lads who've been brought up through the ranks of our club for the last 5-6 years have as good, if not better, a chance of coming in and having an impact than a Bowery or a Tonev from their respective levels (and country's).
For me two of the better performers of the past two games were Herd and Albrighton. Even when fit they've seemed secondary in Lamberts plans to his own punts, but for me Herd is fairly reliable and industrious, he's not brilliant but I could trust him more than some of the signings. Same goes for Albrighton.
Johnson could offer just as much physical presence as KEA (beatin zero isn't a big ask) and as much, if not more quality on the ball. One things for sure we've got some youngsters, including Jack, who look comfortable with the ball at their feet, whereas some of Lamberts signings don't.
They have to get the chance at some point if they're going to make it. It may as well be now. Grealish and Carruthers have to experience their share of big opposition players in League 1. I thought Fonzy for example, who broke in early, looked impressive in the early days. What happened then is that O Neill didn't really give him enough minutes consistently to help his development. That in part was down to his lack of using his bench, and even if he did it'd be on 85 minutes normally. Then we gave the lad too much money too soon. Ditto Bannan.
We're now a club who plays youngsters consistently. That's our ethos. I'd rather we were playing our own more though. We've got Helenius who's probably 1-2 years off from being ready (if ever). At this time I'd say Grealish's experience playing week in/out at County would have him ahead of Helenius, certainly Carruthers would be as he's been in the first team before. But the point is we paid a million for Helenius. Take the combined fee and wages of Tonev and Helenius and we could have got a half decent player who'd be ready for our first 11.
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Helenius is a strange one, the kind of player we should be signing given his age, fee, wages and record, but then can't even get ahead of Bowery on the bench. Strange things are afoot at the Circle K.
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I see what you're saying, but I still think inviting youngsters to make the step up to top-flight football in a struggling team, as opposed to one that is comfortable or has little to play for, is too much of a Darwinian process. They might deal with it and flourish, but the risk is that they will sink under the pressure and their development will be set back because of it. It's all very well turning out for Notts County in front of a modest crowd, when you're on loan and know that not much is expected of you. It's quite another thing to play for a Premier League side that's already under the cosh, scrapping for every point it can get, in front of 40k irate fans.
People often assume the kids are the answer, much as they do whenever England perform badly, but are they really prepared to accept the defeats that will inevitably ensue?
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Helenius is a strange one, the kind of player we should be signing given his age, fee, wages and record, but then can't even get ahead of Bowery on the bench. Strange things are afoot at the Circle K.
I'm all for building for the future certainly. But I think we have to sort out the quality of the first team for the immediate future before signing so many players who may or may not make it in a year or two. I think our signings thus far lean more toward the "maybe in a couple of years" category.
Someone like Luna for example shouldn't be thrown into 40 games a season in the Premiership just yet. Tonev is some way off (though I'm not sure he's got enough in his locker at this level, sorry Stan). Someone like Bacuna I would say, at this immediate time is a squad player. He can fit in over a number of positions but again, you wouldn't want him playing week in, week out just yet.
We need more signings like Vlaar, or even Okore who represents both first 11 standard alongside being a great prospect. We paid more accordingly for that, 4-5 mill? That's a difference I think between spending a bit more or spending say a million for someone playing in the Polish league.
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The best way for youngsters to learn their trade is being eased in gently with some larger figures showing them the ropes and taking the majority of the strain. Our team is so young and so devoid of leadership, including the manager (his teamtalks must be legendary 0 goals in the first half :'().
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Do you mean no goals in the first half at home?
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Do you mean no goals in the first half at home?
Unless you count Rotherham. That is so bad it's ridiculous.
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I see what you're saying, but I still think inviting youngsters to make the step up to top-flight football in a struggling team, as opposed to one that is comfortable or has little to play for, is too much of a Darwinian process. They might deal with it and flourish, but the risk is that they will sink under the pressure and their development will be set back because of it. It's all very well turning out for Notts County in front of a modest crowd, when you're on loan and know that not much is expected of you. It's quite another thing to play for a Premier League side that's already under the cosh, scrapping for every point it can get, in front of 40k irate fans.
People often assume the kids are the answer, much as they do whenever England perform badly, but are they really prepared to accept the defeats that will inevitably ensue?
I dont think anyone argues that youngsters are not the answer. The suggestion was if we are going to use youngsters then use our own rather than spunking money up the wall on the likes of Tonev, Helenius and Bowery who are youngsters from other clubs but no better or more prepared than our own might be.
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Do you mean no goals in the first half at home?
Yes, at home is a massive problem of the managers making not the fans, luck, the fixture list, injuries etc etc. The team has no pace, no enforcers, no playmakers and no genuine width. The midfield in particular no thought seems to have been made about the purchasing of the players because they're all much of a muchness.
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We started well (was it 4 shots of target before they scored?), but they had extra quality and were clinical when they got their chances. And tactially they exposed Luna badly. This lead to us losing confidence as the game wore on. Still, you'd expect a bit more fight from them and we saw precious little.
You could mark it up to a learning curve for young players, but when it comes after other poor showings, if not always results, they it does look bad and shows the manager he needs to get a grip of them quickly before we see a collapse in confidence similar to last season.
Albrighton was the best of a bad bunch.
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... For me two of the better performers of the past two games were Herd and Albrighton. Even when fit they've seemed secondary in Lamberts plans to his own punts, but for me Herd is fairly reliable and industrious, he's not brilliant but I could trust him more than some of the signings. Same goes for Albrighton.
Johnson could offer just as much physical presence as KEA (beatin zero isn't a big ask) and as much, if not more quality on the ball. One things for sure we've got some youngsters, including Jack, who look comfortable with the ball at their feet, whereas some of Lamberts signings don't.
They have to get the chance at some point if they're going to make it. It may as well be now. Grealish and Carruthers have to experience their share of big opposition players in League 1... we're now a club who plays youngsters consistently. That's our ethos. I'd rather we were playing our own more though. We've got Helenius who's probably 1-2 years off from being ready (if ever). At this time I'd say Grealish's experience playing week in/out at County would have him ahead of Helenius, certainly Carruthers would be as he's been in the first team before. But the point is we paid a million for Helenius. Take the combined fee and wages of Tonev and Helenius and we could have got a half decent player who'd be ready for our first 11.
You've made some good points here; I really don't get why Herd has been either frozen out or type-cast as a CB. He was one of TSM's most effective midfielders in That Season. And yesterday, Albrighton seemed to demonsrate what we've been missing by not having a wide player in the line-up.
I'd like to see GG, Bacuna, Herd and Albie given more time in the midfield, with Delph and Westie. And why not Daniel Johnson too?!
They all seem a better bet than KEA and Sylla. Herd would certainly provide some steel, always covers well when the full back attacks and he has a reasonable pass-range too.
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I agree aswell that it's time for a few of the flops to be replaced and as said by others pretty much a bag of cement could replace the likes of El Ahamadi which speaks volumes for the money we've spent, again, that we're even talking about rolling out the youth team again.
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I see what you're saying, but I still think inviting youngsters to make the step up to top-flight football in a struggling team, as opposed to one that is comfortable or has little to play for, is too much of a Darwinian process. They might deal with it and flourish, but the risk is that they will sink under the pressure and their development will be set back because of it. It's all very well turning out for Notts County in front of a modest crowd, when you're on loan and know that not much is expected of you. It's quite another thing to play for a Premier League side that's already under the cosh, scrapping for every point it can get, in front of 40k irate fans.
People often assume the kids are the answer, much as they do whenever England perform badly, but are they really prepared to accept the defeats that will inevitably ensue?
I dont think anyone argues that youngsters are not the answer. The suggestion was if we are going to use youngsters then use our own rather than spunking money up the wall on the likes of Tonev, Helenius and Bowery who are youngsters from other clubs but no better or more prepared than our own might be.
Tonev's 23, Helenius is 22 and so is Bowery. They're young but they're hardly youth players. They've had a good 4 more years of playing pro football than the likes of Grealish. That's a big difference.
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Carruthers & Johnson should be starting to knock on the squad door as they are both around the 21 yo mark. Grealish though only recently turned 18 so sending him out on loan is the right thing in my opinion.
We really have misused the loan system in the past. Johnson has 5 first team appearances for Yeovil at 21 by my reckoning. At similar ages Helenius, Bacuna, Tonev had played probably 70+ first team games each.
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Herd as a DM covering would work IMO.He is not the best technician but he puts a shift in and would be a big help to the CB.Yesterday on sky they showed the goals and pointed out how poor the tracking back was from the midfielders , the same issue was their with Luna he was constantly left with 2 players attacking him
Now this is not an excuse for some of the poor defending , obviously both Baker and Luna made poor pass's that led to goals but MF is still an issue.It's no defensive enough or creative enough.
Also I totally disagree with Lamberts stance on experienced players using poor performances from some older players in the past to justify buying inexperience players is not acceptable to me.No one can tell me that midfield wouldn't benefit from a Parker or a Barry to help them.Look at the defence up until Vlaar (our only experienced CB in age as well as games ) looked decent , since he went off at Soton we have conceded 7 goals.
For the talk of players with potential for the future you need some short term solutions.
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I see what you're saying, but I still think inviting youngsters to make the step up to top-flight football in a struggling team, as opposed to one that is comfortable or has little to play for, is too much of a Darwinian process. They might deal with it and flourish, but the risk is that they will sink under the pressure and their development will be set back because of it. It's all very well turning out for Notts County in front of a modest crowd, when you're on loan and know that not much is expected of you. It's quite another thing to play for a Premier League side that's already under the cosh, scrapping for every point it can get, in front of 40k irate fans.
People often assume the kids are the answer, much as they do whenever England perform badly, but are they really prepared to accept the defeats that will inevitably ensue?
I dont think anyone argues that youngsters are not the answer. The suggestion was if we are going to use youngsters then use our own rather than spunking money up the wall on the likes of Tonev, Helenius and Bowery who are youngsters from other clubs but no better or more prepared than our own might be.
Tonev's 23, Helenius is 22 and so is Bowery. They're young but they're hardly youth players. They've had a good 4 more years of playing pro football than the likes of Grealish. That's a big difference.
I would argue that despite their age and experience they are offering us nothing that we couldnt get from our own youth team - certainly in Bowey and Helenius case who just havent even appeared. Tonev looks woeful too.
I would bet money that Grealish and even Jordan Graham would offer more thna nay of those 3 and they were already here. If Lambery hadnt bought those 3 he could have ahd Barry in our midfield instead of his other woeful signing KEA.
Lambert is pig-headed like MON was and it is costing us money we dont have and holding us back.
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Souness summed us up, play football in the wrong areas, and offer no threat in the final 1/3rd.The quality of the attack , and the midfield, for a team of our stature is very poor.For me, apart from CB, they should all be squad players.Delph should come him, and i think eventually Sylla will be ok, but the rest are average at the best.
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Some sound observations from Robbie Savage's ghost writer via the Beeb: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25393367
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Helenius is a strange one, the kind of player we should be signing given his age, fee, wages and record, but then can't even get ahead of Bowery on the bench. Strange things are afoot at the Circle K.
How far away from being a Premiership player must Helenius be if Bowery sits on the bench ahead of him? We needed men & Lambert has bought boys, we've gone from one extreme to the other. Our performances won't improve until the lack of quality & experience is addressed. Without a reasonable level of experience in the team who are these young players supposed to learn from?
Eventually we will pay the price.
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Helenius is a strange one, the kind of player we should be signing given his age, fee, wages and record, but then can't even get ahead of Bowery on the bench. Strange things are afoot at the Circle K.
How far away from being a Premiership player must Helenius be if Bowery sits on the bench ahead of him? We needed men & Lambert has bought boys, we've gone from one extreme to the other. Our performances won't improve until the lack of quality & experience is addressed. Without a reasonable level of experience in the team who are these young players supposed to learn from?
Eventually we will pay the price.
Agreed - keep buying Championship quality players and you will eventually end up there.............Lambert must get at least 3 experienced players in this next window - to shore up defence and midfield
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The posts here are all pretty clear about the number and type of signings we need to make in January. How realistic however do we really believe it is that a) Lambert agrees ans b) money will be made available?
The most worrying thing for me is that positions we most need to fill are all the same ones as we believed in Summer
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The most worrying thing for me is that positions we most need to fill are all the same ones as we believed in Summer
Bang on. Centre mid and full back were discussed non stop through January's transfer window and in the summer he conjures up Luna from a relegated spannish side who shipped lots of goals and has already experienced relegation twice and Bacuna who ends up being ran ragged when shunted to right back, whilst most of our budget goes on a forward to sit and watch Benteke sulk. How do any of those transfers make sense?
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Souness summed us up, play football in the wrong areas.
Perfectly true, but better than it has been where we played football in no areas.
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Only my third game of the season (missus pregnant) and one I always bring a classic Man Utd fan to - parents from Mauritius, born and lives in London.
I think its all been said really - v pi**ed off from a gutless home performance (again) but I'm still looking forward to taking my 2.5 year old lad to his first game in the future. I wish I could say I'm not going to go until we do X, Y, Z but even when we're shi* theres literally nowhere else I'd rather be than at VP on matchday.
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How far away from being a Premiership player must Helenius be if Bowery sits on the bench ahead of him?
I don't reckon Bowery is any great talent but PL trusts him to go on the field and do exactly as he is told, there was a game last year when the oppositions full back was causing us problems and Bowery went on and forced him backward playing a very discipline role.
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Souness summed us up, play football in the wrong areas.
Perfectly true, but better than it has been where we played football in no areas.
Like Villa Park for instance
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Souness summed us up, play football in the wrong areas.
Perfectly true, but better than it has been where we played football in no areas.
Like Villa Park for instance
Or anywhere in the post-industrial West.
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Souness summed us up, play football in the wrong areas.
Perfectly true, but better than it has been where we played football in no areas.
Like Villa Park for instance
Very good
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Lambert needs to be wary, if the standard of football remains as shite as it has been then the fans will decide his fate at the end of the season. Despite what the press wants everyone to believe, with McCleish it was the quality of football that eventually made his position untenable not his connection with the noses. If there is no sign of improvement Lambert will eventually get the same treatment. Lambert MUST see what we see, so either he's hellbent on doing it this way or he's being restricted by Lerner. Personally I think it's the latter.
Our expectations have been well and truly lowered & the 5 year plan is dead and gone.
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No such thing as a five-year plan. Never has been.
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5 year plan? We can't do 90 minute plans right now.
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Wouldn't shock me if Bowery stands at Stoke tbh especially with Gabby being out.
He actually did quite well up there in the game last season.
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But every Brummie red has a Mancunian uncle.
They are all bastards.
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Wouldn't shock me if Bowery stands at Stoke tbh especially with Gabby being out.
He actually did quite well up there in the game last season.
Hmmmm...no good this year. They have by now amorphously turned into Barcastoke City under Hughes genius leadership with Messireland leading the charge.
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Baker knows how to tackle, but I got the impression that yesterday he was likely shouting "have some of this you c***!" while do his best to hack them down.
If he was, he wasn't the only one, because we were shouting very similar words.
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Wouldn't shock me if Bowery stands at Stoke tbh especially with Gabby being out.
He actually did quite well up there in the game last season.
He did. It wouldnt worry me that much to see him or helenius starting against Stoke.
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Wouldn't shock me if Bowery stands at Stoke tbh especially with Gabby being out.
He actually did quite well up there in the game last season.
Hmmmm...no good this year. They have by now amorphously turned into Barcastoke City under Hughes genius leadership with Messireland leading the charge.
They really haven't, the Chelsea game they won was a fluke just like us beating Man. City was. 0-0s against Hull and Cardiff give more of an indication where Stoke are.
If we can defend high balls well, this is a winnable game for us. Ireland's probably been their best player in the last month and he can't play.
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But every Brummie red has a Mancunian uncle.
They are all bastards.
And they're all Bluenoses in disguise.
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But every Brummie red has a Mancunian uncle.
They are all bastards.
And they're all Bluenoses in disguise.
This point has been made many times. Every Villa supporter I know has got more time for a genuine matchgoing nose than an armchair Brummie Red. The feeling is not mutual. Equally, Brummie Reds invariably hate us and have a soft spot for Small Heath.
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But every Brummie red has a Mancunian uncle.
They are all bastards.
And they're all Bluenoses in disguise.
This point has been made many times. Every Villa supporter I know has got more time for a genuine matchgoing nose than an armchair Brummie Red. The feeling is not mutual. Equally, Brummie Reds invariably hate us and have a soft spot for Small Heath.
There's a simple litmus test to find out if a Brummie Red is a Nose in disguise. Just mention Villa and watch them bite. They can hide their love for Small Heath but mention Villa and they just can't help but spout their hatred.
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A lot of them are from nose families. They don't want a lifetime of 'aving their 'earts broken but supporting the Villa is genetically impossible so they sell their souls for second-hand glory.
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Brummie Reds are the ultimate football scum. I fucking hate them.
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The other thing about them is that they love everything Mancunian as well.
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If Gabby's out he will unquestionably be replaced by Tonev, Weimann or Kozak and a change of system.
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Brummie Reds are the ultimate football scum. I fucking hate them.
Sticking my neck on the line here but I would bet you don't have the same problem in Liverpool, Newcastle, Sunderland and Manchester so why Brum? It grips my shit. We had a new fella turn up the other day at work with a thick Brummie accent so I made the mistake of asking him if he was a Villain or Bluenose. Oh no he says, Arsenal. Effing Arsenal. Gor blimey guvnor, strike a light. I didn't wait for the explanation, I already know it >:(.
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Baker knows how to tackle, but I got the impression that yesterday he was likely shouting "have some of this you c***!" while do his best to hack them down.
If he was, he wasn't the only one, because we were shouting very similar words.
I can imagine you and pauline dressed as superheroes kicking the reds out of P8 - biff bam bosh :)
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Brummie Reds are the ultimate football scum. I fucking hate them.
Sticking my neck on the line here but I would bet you don't have the same problem in Liverpool, Newcastle, Sunderland and Manchester so why Brum? It grips my shit. We had a new fella turn up the other day at work with a thick Brummie accent so I made the mistake of asking him if he was a Villain or Bluenose. Oh no he says, Arsenal. Effing Arsenal. Gor blimey guvnor, strike a light. I didn't wait for the explanation, I already know it >:(.
Whenever I meet someone who espouses support for a team that obviously doesn't fit with their accent I run through all the reasons they might have chosen them - Born there but moved? No. Dad supported them? No. Was seriously ill in hospital as a child and visited by the team at Xmas? No. Saved your Mom's life on a motorway as they were pasisng by on their way to a match? No. Had trials with them but failed? No. You can go on for ages until you drop "Ohhhhhh you're a Gloryhunter!"
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The singing of SOTV on Sunday was proof, if it were ever needed, of what they really are. Impossible to see the join apart from them taking 70 minutes instead of 4.5 to come out with it. They did well to contain it that long though tbf.
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In fairness to their away support, when they scored and started singing "we are staying up!" I had a laugh.
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In fairness to their away support, when they scored and started singing "we are staying up!" I had a laugh.
Yes, that was quite amusing. I didn't think Man Utd fans had a sense of humour.
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In fairness to their away support, when they scored and started singing "we are staying up!" I had a laugh.
Yes, that was quite amusing. I didn't think Man Utd fans had a sense of humour.
Some of them do. When they played at Stamford Bridge in the league cup last season it was days after the Mark Clattenburg supposed racism thing. They brought one banner saying 'Clattenburg - Referee, Leader, Legend' and another that said 'Chelsea FC - Fighting Racism since Saturday'
Still wankers though.
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I struggle to understand a word they are 'singing' to be honest. must be the mixture of accents that muddles it up. They make a lot of noise but it all seems a bit too choreographed for me.
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In fairness to their away support, when they scored and started singing "we are staying up!" I had a laugh.
Yes, that was quite amusing. I didn't think Man Utd fans had a sense of humour.
They're still wankers though.
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In fairness to their away support, when they scored and started singing "we are staying up!" I had a laugh.
Yes, that was quite amusing. I didn't think Man Utd fans had a sense of humour.
They're still wankers though.
The away fans are an odd lot, 50% the genuines from Salford who would follow their club to the fourth division, and 50% blow-ins from wherever they happen to be visiting at the time. Half and half, like the scarves.
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In fairness to their away support, when they scored and started singing "we are staying up!" I had a laugh.
Yes, that was quite amusing. I didn't think Man Utd fans had a sense of humour.
They're still wankers though.
The away fans are an odd lot, 50% the genuines from Salford who would follow their club to the fourth division, and 50% blow-ins from wherever they happen to be visiting at the time. Half and half, like the scarves.
They are horrible, horrible scutters, but they're not as bad as Liverpool's away support which seems to be mostly Irish blokes in red jester hats, twice a season Scandinavians and local twats with no pride.
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They are horrible, horrible scutters, but they're not as bad as Liverpool's away support which seems to be mostly Irish blokes in red jester hats, twice a season Scandinavians and local twats with no pride.
Growing up in the south of England, I never worked out whether it was worse at any given moment to meet a local Redscouse arriviste or an actual Red Scouser.
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They are horrible, horrible scutters, but they're not as bad as Liverpool's away support which seems to be mostly Irish blokes in red jester hats, twice a season Scandinavians and local twats with no pride.
Growing up in the south of England, I never worked out whether it was worse at any given moment to meet a local Redscouse arriviste or an actual Red Scouser.
The local. Always the local.
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The away fans are an odd lot, 50% the genuines from Salford who would follow their club to the fourth division, and 50% blow-ins from wherever they happen to be visiting at the time. Half and half, like the scarves.
[/quote]
Sadly they have support all over the country, and draw fans from everywhere for any game, home or away.
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Apart from being a bunch of try hards (with their black gear and "look at us" forced boisterous behaviour), I think they're a pretty good set of away fans.
The vast majority of the away support is Manc. 50/50 split isn't really fair, given how difficult their ballot system makes it for Johnny Come Latelys to get away tickets. If you're a scally Manc and they happen to be your local club, then you have to put up with a lot shit in the sense that they are always charged category A prices and rarely play on a Saturday at 3pm.
It's obviously cushioned by their success massively, but if you're a bloke from inside the M60 who follows them everywhere, then you're being shafted by the modern game.
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They are horrible, horrible scutters, but they're not as bad as Liverpool's away support which seems to be mostly Irish blokes in red jester hats, twice a season Scandinavians and local twats with no pride.
Growing up in the south of England, I never worked out whether it was worse at any given moment to meet a local Redscouse arriviste or an actual Red Scouser.
I doubt any away support lives up the stereotype as much as Liverpool. Even if a lot of them are Welsh.
Trackies? Check
Moody merchandise sold out of shopping trolleys? Check
Middle aged Tarby wannabes? Check
Perms and taches? Check
I could go on.
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Apart from being a bunch of try hards (with their black gear and "look at us" forced boisterous behaviour), I think they're a pretty good set of away fans.
The vast majority of the away support is Manc. 50/50 split isn't really fair, given how difficult their ballot system makes it for Johnny Come Latelys to get away tickets. If you're a scally Manc and they happen to be your local club, then you have to put up with a lot shit in the sense that they are always charged category A prices and rarely play on a Saturday at 3pm.
It's obviously cushioned by their success massively, but if you're a bloke from inside the M60 who follows them everywhere, then you're being shafted by the modern game.
I knew a couple of brothers from Pedmore who followed them home and away since the Second Division. They were total loons wearing their tartan in the 70's (remember that?) and they could start a fight in a Buddhist temple but they were loyal to the core.
Now the Kiddy Reds were a different matter entirely!.
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I knew a Yanited fan from Hampton in Arden, I've no idea why he supports them nor have I any funny anecdotes about him.