Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Off Topic => Sports Arena => Topic started by: Villan For Life on January 05, 2012, 02:26:54 PM
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After a pretty damned good 2011 - world cup aside - England begin their 2012 campaign on the 17th January with a test against Pakistan in the UAE. There are a couple of warm up matches ahead of this.
It promises to be an interesting year for England. The Pakistan series is followed by a short visit to Sri Lanka then we host the West Indies and South Africa. The Aussies are also here for a one day series. We finish the year with the T20 World Cup and an Indian tour.
I think that England have enough quality and strength in depth to still be the number one ranked test team come January 2013. The series against the Saffers and the Indians will be challenging but we should come out on top.
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This is a very important season for England, we need to drive home our dominance of the game. I'll be looking for Morgan and Finn to emerge as Test players, and Bairstow, Taylor, Stokes and Woakes to push on as One day players.
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I think it's going to be interesting how we fit 5 international class quick bowlers into 3 positions. At the moment I would say Anderson, Broad and Tremlett is the main attack. But Finn and Bresnan are both good enough, with Bresnan's batting ability being a good advantage, while Finn looks like he's probably the fastest quick in world cricket.
Also, with tours of the sub continent coming up surely Panesar will join Swann as our second spinner, who will drop out of the batting line up to bring him in? You'd expect it to be Morgan, but after Bell he's probably our best player of spin bowling so would be a must for the tours this year.
Tough with these kinds of selection headaches, it looks like a positive 2012 is coming up for English Cricket.
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The temptation on the sub-continent would be to drop Pietersen who doesn't play spin at all well, but he can, on his day, take a game away from opponents so quickly it's unreal. Plus his part-time spinners could negate the need for Panesar at all?
Bresnan didn't train yesterday so expect Finn to play in the first warm up game to check on how he has got on while playing in New Zealand.
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Not sure if anyone's been watching but the Aussies are sending us a message at the moment - this pace attack is looking rather tasty all of a sudden with Pattinson and Cummins.
We need a convincing win in this series to put them back in their box.
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Not sure if anyone's been watching but the Aussies are sending us a message at the moment - this pace attack is looking rather tasty all of a sudden with Pattinson and Cummins.
We need a convincing win in this series to put them back in their box.
The Aussies will always come up with a decent attack, the question is can they keep them fit.
Pattinson will miss the rest of the India series with stress fractures to a bone in his foot. Cummins is missing the Aussie season due to a heel injury. They are fine prospects but seem a little young to be suffering typical fast bowler stress/wear and tear injuries. Maybe they're being over bowled?
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Not sure if anyone's been watching but the Aussies are sending us a message at the moment - this pace attack is looking rather tasty all of a sudden with Pattinson and Cummins.
We need a convincing win in this series to put them back in their box.
The Aussies will always come up with a decent attack, the question is can they keep them fit.
Pattinson will miss the rest of the India series with stress fractures to a bone in his foot. Cummins is missing the Aussie season due to a heel injury. They are fine prospects but seem a little young to be suffering typical fast bowler stress/wear and tear injuries. Maybe they're being over bowled?
Maybe, but Cummins isn't being overbowled as he'd only played 3/4 first class matches but Pattinson might have been - he's also very aggresive at the crease abit like Donald was which doesn't help regards his injuries.
Hilfenhaus seems to have gained an Andersonesque form turnaround is has added an extra 10 kph as has Siddle. Having said that India have looked fairly poor and ,I hate to say it, disinterested again.
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Pattinson and Cummins do look to have some promise about them. They are however unknown quantities to an extent.
Many bowlers have had promising starts to their careers and then fallen by the wayside once oppositions garner more information.
I'd definitely take England's bowling attack over all others, even if Pattinson and Cummins reach full potential. I also think Steven Finn will turn into a considerably better bowler than both.
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The Saffers have a great attack and the Aussies have the making of another good attack too. What both lack in comparison to England is strength in depth. It enables us to rotate our attack whereas a Saffer attack minus Steyn is considerably poorer.
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England have the best attack for depth and proven over a prelonger period. The Saffers have the best bowler in Steyn. Australia's attack will face stiffer tests, and be interesting to see how they do.
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Innings wins for both the Aussies and SA, they are chucking the guantlet.
Good stuff, if only the West Indies could get their act together. Test cricket is NOT dying, it could be on the cusp of a golden era.
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Test cricket is NOT dying, it could be on the cusp of a golden era.
It shouldn't be, buut the crowds for the Christmas Tests were very poor. Even before Christmas, SA vs Oz wasn't exactly packed, which was very sad.
On another note I work with a lot of Indians (Delhi and Bangalore) and have been giving them severe stick over making the Australians look good. They are besides themselves with anger, but admit it's probably down to the increasing emphasis on short-form cricket in India, where a lot of their talent is excelling and where the big crowds/money is. Which is a bit sad. Their younger players look good in T20 etc. but are struggling to displace the old folks in the test team.
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Test cricket is NOT dying, it could be on the cusp of a golden era.
It shouldn't be, buut the crowds for the Christmas Tests were very poor. Even before Christmas, SA vs Oz wasn't exactly packed, which was very sad.
Swings & roundabouts. I was watching a repeat of a 1984 test v the WI yesterday, and the ground (think it was Old Trafford) was virtually deserted. This was to watch one of the greatest teams of all time.
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Melbourne Test crowd aggregate (4 days) - 189,347
Average per day attendance = 47,336
Sydney Test crowd aggregate (4 days) - 115,112
Average per day attendance = 28,778
Very respectable crowds and TV viewing figures that were higher than last years Ashes Series (Aussies won't watch when they're losing).
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Aussies won't watch when they're losing.
Yes indeed. I gave my Aussie mate some pelters over that.
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Well the batsman struggled other than Cook, hopefully it's just a bit of rustiness.
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Luke Wright just got 100 off 44 balls in the Big Bash, ultimately out for 117.
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Bres is out of the tour, England won.
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Test cricket is NOT dying, it could be on the cusp of a golden era.
It shouldn't be, buut the crowds for the Christmas Tests were very poor. Even before Christmas, SA vs Oz wasn't exactly packed, which was very sad.
Swings & roundabouts. I was watching a repeat of a 1984 test v the WI yesterday, and the ground (think it was Old Trafford) was virtually deserted. This was to watch one of the greatest teams of all time.
That's probably why it was deserted, people couldn't be arsed to turn up to see England get stuffed.
Test cricket is as popular as it has been in England for decades, partly because it has successfully re-invented itself as a game where lads can turn up and get pissed (like darts) and cos England are doing so well. Test crowds in the sub-continent, the Windies and elsewhere are pretty poor though. I wouldn't be amazed if in twenty years time the Ashes is the only Test cricket competition that remains while everybody else just plays Twenty Over Slogball.
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Bres is out of the tour, England won.
He's only out of the Tests, can still make ODI's and T20
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Onions is a more than adequate replacement! If he can get past Finn or Tremlett (admittedly he's not 100%).
I'd like to see a bit more rotation amongst the quicks, to avoid burnout issues. Perm any 3 from Bresnan, Broad, Anderson, Tremlett, Onions, Woakes, Finn.
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Just an heads up to anyone with a PaddyPower account they are showing the ODI's between South Africa and Sri Lanka.
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Cheers bighead!
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Cheers bighead!
My head is of Stewie Griffin size I have to say.
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Onions is a more than adequate replacement!
he will struggle with the Teesra from Ajmal!
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Monty Panear bowling better than Swanny this morning.
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Panesar has bowled a great spell apparently, which is interesting. It seems that this pitch is very receptive to spin and this is where the first Test is being played. I think they should consider playing two spinners in the first Test.
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Panesar has bowled a great spell apparently, which is interesting. It seems that this pitch is very receptive to spin and this is where the first Test is being played. I think they should consider playing two spinners in the first Test.
Yep, and it solves the problem of who to replace Bresnan at a stroke.
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I agree I think it's brilliant that we're worried who to play, Tremlett, Finn or Panesar. That's not even mentioned Onions, it shows what depth we have.
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On this pitch Panesar has to take the last spot, there's loads of turn there but there's nothing in it for the quicks.
Spin has dominated both days so far as on most pitch conditions just get better and better for the spinners as it goes on. I'd keep Panesar around as well because you need the extra spinner on the sub-continent as well.
It's just a shame he's so unreliable in the field, can't bat either but I'm willing to let the batting go as we have decent options down to 9 anyway so we shouldn't be relying on anything for him or Jimmy.
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Monty has to play and for me KP has to be the man to go............his record against spin is very poor
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I wouldn't drop KP, I'm not sure how I'd fit him in but Monty has to play on the evidence of today.
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I wouldn't drop KP, I'm not sure how I'd fit him in but Monty has to play on the evidence of today.
Just put Monty in for Bresnan, four bowlers, two quicks and two spinners, batting line-up as per usual.
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Just seen Dave Warner's century for the Aussies, bloody hell! Bought the ton up with a six the cocky bastard!
They are on their way back aren't they?
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I'm not too concerned by Australia, they are a long way from us I think. As for our game, did well to win that. Impressive from Monty and Onions in the second innings.
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Just seen Dave Warner's century for the Aussies, bloody hell! Bought the ton up with a six the cocky bastard!
They are on their way back aren't they?
Yep, Warner really looks the business and they've got a terrific pace attack with the additions of Pattinson and Cummins - a battery of 5/6 similar to England. Still no top spinner though.
India though have been feeble in every facet of the game in this series - this will be 4-0. They really are in deep shit if only their selectors had the courage to see it. Too many underperforming old boys racking up their averages at home to Bangladesh and then making fools of themselves away.
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India have been poor since the end of the World Cup. I feel sorry for Duncan Fletcher who is a coach I like & Admire.
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Ian Bell taken to hospital after being hit on the wrist in the nets. Could mean a re-jig of the batting line-up, Bopara may have to be drafted in even though he didn't play in either of the warm up games.
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Ian Bell taken to hospital after being hit on the wrist in the nets. Could mean a re-jig of the batting line-up, Bopara may have to be drafted in even though he didn't play in either of the warm up games.
I hope Bell is going to be fit, but this could potentially solve the Monty issue if Bell can't play.
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Ian Bell taken to hospital after being hit on the wrist in the nets. Could mean a re-jig of the batting line-up, Bopara may have to be drafted in even though he didn't play in either of the warm up games.
I hope Bell is going to be fit, but this could potentially solve the Monty issue if Bell can't play.
Move Morgan up one?
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Ian Bell taken to hospital after being hit on the wrist in the nets. Could mean a re-jig of the batting line-up, Bopara may have to be drafted in even though he didn't play in either of the warm up games.
I hope Bell is going to be fit, but this could potentially solve the Monty issue if Bell can't play.
Move Morgan up one?
Yeah although he hasn't looked in great touch, but it'd make sense. Play Prior at 6, Broad at 7 and then the bowlers.
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I'd be tempted to play Swann above Broad, Swann is the more attacking batsman but can get out quickly, Broad can marshall the tailenders better if needs be.
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Well Bell is fit, so back to the conundrum! I do think Monty has to play.
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I can't see Panesar playing as none of the batsmen will be dropped.
Strauss is captain so will be in the side.
Cook and Trott are the rocks around which the team are built.
Bell and Morgan are our best players of spin so are unlikely to be dropped.
KP is our most explosive player, and one man the opposition always fears to play.
Imo it would be too dangerous to go in with only 2 quicks as one injury early on would put us in the shit, and it's likely to reverse later in the innings which our bowlers are very good at.
I'm expecting a team of Strauss, Cook, Trott, Bell (moved to number 4 after last summer), KP, Morgan, Prior, Broad, Swann, Anderson, Finn
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Oops, this isn't going too well
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Well worth working from home for. Cough.
Looks like omitting Monty won't matter much.
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Well that first session was bloody awful, really poor shot selection.
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A lot on these two now.
Quite impressive the way Pakistan have regrouped after all their recent troubles.
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They've done bowled well with use of flight, but the batsmen other than Bell shouldn't be getting out to those deliveries. We definitely should have picked Monty.
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Pakistan have played well in Dubai recently and understand how to bowl on that wicket. On the other hand our batting has been poor and/or tentative.
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That's poor from Morgan he was in, and shouldn't be getting out like that.
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This has been a truly inept display, we look rusty and badly undercooked. However England have enough credit in the bank and hopefully will fight back, they've shown a lot of character of the last couple of years. Although the three seamers seems a bit over the top on this pitch.
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Poor from Broad as well.
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STOP FUCKING SWEEPING!
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They just seem incapable of learning their lessons about playing spin.
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This wasn't really worth getting up at 5.30 for, though Swann and Prior are both capable of sticking a few runs on the board. Hopefully we'll have a similar bowling performance.
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Probably the most ridiculous referral ever there!
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This has been a good stand by Prior and Swann, but it has shown how badly the top order played. If they can cobble together another 50/60 and bowl really well, we might not be out of this. The other batsmen need to look hard at themselves.
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If you'd offered me 192 when we were 46-5 I'd have taken it. Prior did brilliantly and so did Swann. Morgan did ok, but got out to a stupid shot. The batsmen need a hard look at themselves and need to play straight. Bowlers need a performance now.
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If we can roll Pakistan for under 300 now we've still got a chance in this game as long as we learn from the first innings. Hopefully this is a wake up call to how difficult it can be in sub-continent (ish) conditions.
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Proceedings being held up by a Bears flag behind the bowlers arm.
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Well Pakistan are finding it considerably easier against our pace attack.
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If England want to sustain the best test side in the world ranking this is their moment. Best sides recover and win from this sort of situation.
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Well that is an absolute shocker of a day, Prior excluded. Really poor batting display. Bowling looked really toothless as well, I think we've made a big mistake not picking Monty. For some reason over the last year Swanny has lost a bit of something, he doesn't look as threatening. Hopefully he'll get it back quick. They need to bounce back hard tomorrow.
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The batsmen looked woefully underprepared. Two practice games ahead of your first test match since August is not the way forward. All batsmen other than Cook performed badly in the warm ups so this performance is hardly surprising.
This team is nothing if not resilient and they will bounce back. We need to strike early on day 2 with the ball and build on that.
The non-selection of Monty is an interesting one. All I can think of is that his batting and fielding although improved still counts against him.
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I would have left KP out, he's been out of touch for a while and hasn't done much so far this tour against weaker attacks. I'd have moved Bell, Morgan & Prior up and played Panesar, giving 2 spinners & 3 quicks.
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The batsmen looked woefully underprepared.
They are as under prepared as Sri Lanka and India were here last summer. To tour properly you need to prepare for the climate and the pitch.
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And that's a big part of it. Because of the amount of international/ IPL Cricket in the schedule, players are burning out faster so there's little or no enthusiasm for teams turning up a month before a tour starts and playing 4/5 warm up matches and aclimitise to the conditions. They want to rest and spend time with their families and being as well paid as they are now the pretty much call the tune on this.
It's no coincidence that England arrived a month early in Australia last year (for the first time in ages) and hit the ground running. I think that's a major part of why touring teams are performing so badly in World Cricket right now.
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And that's a big part of it. Because of the amount of international/ IPL Cricket in the schedule, players are burning out faster so there's little or no enthusiasm for teams turning up a month before a tour starts and playing 4/5 warm up matches and aclimitise to the conditions. They want to rest and spend time with their families and being as well paid as they are now the pretty much call the tune on this.
It's no coincidence that England arrived a month early in Australia last year (for the first time in ages) and hit the ground running. I think that's a major part of why touring teams are performing so badly in World Cricket right now.
I will say we were pretty poor in the first innings of the first Test in Australia and it was only a great rearguard action from Cook and Trott that saved that Test in second innings. I do agree that they should have been out in Dubai much earlier though.
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Well this showing how badly we batted. Other than Broad we look completely toothless, Swann isn't building any pressure.
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I don't think we're bowling that bad, the pitch looks as flat as a witches tits. Our problems are yesterday, how the hell didn't we make 400 on this pitch.
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That Hafeez wicket gives a slight glimmer of hope, they really need to run through them now and get them out for under 300 and then go onto score 450 + in the second innings.
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Hopefully Trott's wicket will be a turning point in this Test, Younus looked capable of batting out the day before that.
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They need to have them out for under 300 and then bat very well.
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So Pakistan are 96 ahead with 3 wickets remaining, it's crucial we knock them over early tomorrow. No more than an 120 run deficit and then score 450 + in our second innings.
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I think it will depend on how the pitch goes. If it stays as it is we'll probably see 400 plays 400 in the second innings. If it deteriorates then both sides have a chance of victory.
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The critical thing is knocking them over quickly tomorrow and then us batting long in our second innings. If we don't do those two things I don't think it will matter how much the pitch deteriorates.
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So Pakistan are 96 ahead with 3 wickets remaining, it's crucial we knock them over early tomorrow. No more than an 120 run deficit and then score 450 + in our second innings.
The second innings will be the key. Yes this squad is resilient but are they likely to bat any better second time around? I fear that the lack of pre-test practice will influence this.
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We'll be fine, one or more of Strauss, Cook, Bell or even Pietersen will fill their boots on this pitch.
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I think they'll have learned their lesson, but most importantly we'll need to get them out quick in the morning. No more than 20 or 30 runs. I think it's abundantly clear that on this pitch you don't play across the line.
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We'll be fine, one or more of Strauss, Cook, Bell or even Pietersen will fill their boots on this pitch.
I agree, but it will be one of the first three. Or, if you're looking for an obdurate batsman to play all day long, it's got to be Trott.
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England have done well. From 45-5 to being only about 120 behind at the start of the second innings is good.
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Well they got 20 too many, and both openers have managed to get out so we are essentially buried.
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KP is such a brainless twat at times.
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This really isn't going very well is it??
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Err...
Bell has had two absolute beauties, he's the only top order batsman that could be deemed unlucky, the rest have just been brainless in this test.
Time to drop Pietersen I reckon.
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This is truly appalling.
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Thing is I agree Pietersen has been daft, but his form over the last year is a lot better than Strauss's. What it comes down to is responsibility, and this has been atrocious. We now need the remaining 6 wickets to muster at least another 350-400. But obviously that is extremely unlikely as most of our top order have gashed it.
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Morgan embarrassing as well. He's been in worse form than Pietersen as well.
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This is really like bad old England from a batting perspective. They are now staring down the barrel in this series.
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Vaughan has correctly slated them and said the batting has been embarrasing in this Test. Two warm up games(not enough) and all the analysts in the World, still haven't adapted at all. We're meant to be the number 1 side in the World.
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Oh dear. 88-7.
My concern is that they will be struck by the same malaise that the 2005 Ashes side and 2003 Rugby World Cup winning side appeared to suffer from. These sides went backwards very quickly after they reached their pinnacle and seemed to be infected with a "we've just got to turn up to win" mentality. Instead of leaving their achievements in the past they dwelled on them. Successful sides will look to build on success and remain at the top of their sport. English teams don't tend to do that which may explain why we have seen so few English teams at the top of their sports for a sustained period of time.
I hope I'm wrong and this is a blip but we've been here before.
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I don't think it's the same as the post Ashes and Rugby World Cup thing, just because they've been trying to bring players through. However they have approached this Test in an incredibly complacent manner and it's unacceptable. They need a hard look at themselves and how they approach batting.
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What's that saying about proper preparation? Well we haven't done it and now we must pay the price.
I just hope that the last 12/18 months hasn't gone to their heads and they've forgotten that it takes hard work to get to the top and even harder work to stay there. 2 warm up games would suggest otherwise i'm afraid. And my guess is that with a Coaching team as dilligent as Flower and Gooch, the lack of preperation must have come as a firm directive of the players.
Admittedly, they got overly flogged last year between the Ashes series finnising and the World Cup starting si I can understanding them wanting to maximise their breaks to a degree but you just can't come into a series against decent opposition in foreign conditions with so little Cricket under your belt and still expect to perform. We're not that good a team ffs.
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Well we avoided an innings defeat, but this has been bloody embarrassing. All the 'batsmen' should be in the nets tomorrow and Saturday practicing until they have worked something out. They need to make some huge changes to their attitude and approach in second test. Also Morgan actually starts need to producing as a Test player.
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One of the worse batting performances across a Test match I can remember.
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One of the worse batting performances across a Test match I can remember.
It's up there with the 51 all out against the Windies in 2009
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True but I don't think collectively across two innings I remember a performance that poor. Picking Morgan as the extra batsmen was a disaster as well, he gets a lot of low scores and the odd century or 70. I'm yet to be convinced of him as a Test player, hopefully I'm wrong.
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England have been very ill prepared for this and may well or I think should recover from this. They can not become a bad side overnight. However there is a danger that in condemning England we forget the enormous recovery Pakistan have made in the last 12 months. They have treated the "exiled" state seriously, developed a very professional set up, removed the bad eggs and got their head down to playing cricket. So they deserve praise for this demolition.
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aaaarrgghh that was not good, just read the reports, come on England.
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I like Flower's honesty that we were under cooked, but why are we under cooked? we are number 1 side in the World we should always be fully prepared. Also my concern is how do they sort it out for second Test?
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I like Flower's honesty that we were under cooked, but why are we under cooked? we are number 1 side in the World we should always be fully prepared. Also my concern is how do they sort it out for second Test?
Difficult balance though, between giving players a rest from cricket and being fully prepared. They play so many series these days it was understandable that they'd want a break when one became possible.
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Yeah I can understand the need for a break, but I think a four month break was a little much. It might have been worth arranging a couple of warm up matches elsewhere if Abu Dhabi has very few options. I know the conditions would be different, but at least it's time in the middle to improve match sharpness.
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Thng is, like in other sports you have player power now.
After the crazy schedule of last years tours I think there was some tension between the playing group and the ECB (you only have to look at tweets and columns from the time). So the ECB gave the players a 4 month match free carrot but it's come back to bite them - also there's so much T20 around it's difficult to find sides to play at this time of year as a warm up match in the conditions. It's not like there are any 'home' teams to play against in the UAE is it.
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Younus Khan gone, huge wicket.
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Forgot this started today, just put it on to see Broad remove Ali's off stump.
Nice to see Monty back in the side,
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Villastreams showed the last test but can't get anything on today, having to settle with the TMS commentary. Sounds like a good positive start from the bowlers today.
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With a bit of luck, we could be batting before the close... Famous last words, I know. Broad's bowling well.
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We need to break this partnership, we've bowled well but I think we open the door once the next wicket falls.
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The fella from Villastreams has just pushed a big green button somewhere 'cos it's now working. *grabs coffee, puts feet up*
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Anderson needs to up his game a bit, the other bowlers have all shown a bit of threat.
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That was a bad drop Jimmy, let's hope it isn't too costly.
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I'm surprised at Monty is being bowled more than Swann.
Monty hasn't played a test since the 1st Ashes test in 2009. Before the start of this tour Swann was rated as the best spinner in test cricket. It's a strange one.
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Doing okay here, would be even better if we hadn't dropped four catches!
Broad is bowling a great spell here, made even better because the wicket is as flat as a witch's tit.
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Strauss' was the worst one.
Anyway, 243 for 7. Not bad.
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Our day now I think, well bowled Swanny.
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It's probably just about our day, but the dropped catches are really poor and costly.
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It's probably just about our day, but the dropped catches are really poor and costly.
And unusual for this England team.
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It's really important we knock them over quickly in the morning, ideally for under 280. We don't want them getting 300 +.
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We'll be batting last on what could be a very worn, turning pitch, we have got to get a first innings lead of 100+.
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It's really important we knock them over quickly in the morning, ideally for under 280. We don't want them getting 300 +.
3 wickets, no more runs. That's how you clean up the tail! Excellent. We need to bat all day, at least.
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It's really important we knock them over quickly in the morning, ideally for under 280. We don't want them getting 300 +.
3 wickets, no more runs. That's how you clean up the tail! Excellent. We need to bat all day, at least.
All day and most of tomorrow!
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Well finishing them off so quickly, was great and a good start to the batting.
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Ha! Pakistan have wasted both their reviews, that will cost them later when they are bowling two spinners.
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That is an excellent session, we need another good session and it'll be a great day. We should really be putting the strangle hold on this game, and getting a big lead and then there is plenty in the pitch to bowl them out again.
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Damn Trott gone, he's done well. It's really important we don't lose a cluster of wickets now.
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Cook is just a machine, he doesn't sweat even in the desert!
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Well he's out now, bad time to lose him. He's played well, we really need the other batsmen to perform now.
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Here we go again, Pietersen for fucks sake.
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Well we have well and truly potentially ballsed up a good position here. KP and Morgan have badly let us down, from a great position. We're reliant on Bell and Prior getting big scores now.
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207 for 5. Fuck. Apart from the last half hour, it's been our day.
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That last half an hour though could be the most important of the game. It's not gone for us yet, but we need big scores from Bell, Prior and the rest now. We have to bat last. Really poor from KP and Morgan. I've long been a supporter of KP, but I'm losing faith. I also championed Morgan for the side, but unless he picks up he really isn't producing anywhere near enough.
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Damn Trott gone, he's done well. It's really important we don't lose a cluster of wickets now.
Just stay quiet next time please.
Curse of the H&V commentary strikes again
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Yes to correct my commentary curse, I sure hope England don't go on to get another 200 + runs tomorrow!
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Morgan isn't a test batsman. He'd be my first pick in ODI's because of his incredible strokeplay, but he just hasn't got the patience to play a test innings when it's needed.
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Morgan isn't a test batsman. He'd be my first pick in ODI's because of his incredible strokeplay, but he just hasn't got the patience to play a test innings when it's needed.
Yeah or he isn't at the moment in any case, he's still young. Problem today was I had no belief that Morgan, Bell and Pietersen would be up to it. Two of those three have gone and it's up to Bell to prove me wrong tomorrow. The match is on a knife edge now and we need big runs tomorrow.
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I agree with you about Morgan. He's had plenty of chances at test level and hasn't yet produced the goods. I want to see him succeed because when he's in form his unorthodoxy makes him wonderful to watch and more importantly, difficult to bowl to.
Will they will stick with Morgan like they did will Ian Bell? He made his debut in 2004 and had countless chances and was dropped on a couple of occasions. Since the 2009/10 South African tour he's really cemented his place in the side and has gone from strength to strength. Will Morgan get a similar number of chances?
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Morgan has time to come back, but at the moment we can't carry him.
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Morgan has time to come back, but at the moment we can't carry him.
We carried Bell for long enough and he came good.
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I think with Bell though is he had great technique and had proved at County level that he had the levels of concentration to bat long. With these attributes, they knew that there was a good Test Match Cricketer in there somewhere if they stuck with him. Unfortunatley Morgan's not that type of player so needs runs to stay in the side. I think it's time to start looking for an alternative at 6.
Pietersen nees runs badly but unless someone else seriously starts making big runs when the County season opens, someone who is attacking, takes on the quicks and has great self confidence i'd be sticking with him - he'll rise to the occasion against the Saffas.
England ahead in this game still right now, a lead of 100+ is target from here.
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I think with Bell though is he had great technique and had proved at County level that he had the levels of concentration to bat long. With these attributes, they knew that there was a good Test Match Cricketer in there somewhere if they stuck with him. Unfortunatley Morgan's not that type of player so needs runs to stay in the side. I think it's time to start looking for an alternative at 6.
Pietersen nees runs badly but unless someone else seriously starts making big runs when the County season opens, someone who is attacking, takes on the quicks and has great self confidence i'd be sticking with him - he'll rise to the occasion against the Saffas.
England ahead in this game still right now, a lead of 100+ is target from here.
I think 100 lead is very optimistic but I'd be very happy with that. I think KP can come good but needs to think about his game more. Morgan needs to work on his technique.
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These extra runs must be hurting Pakistan. 319 for 8, 62 runs ahead. They'll be a lot easier to score first innings than batting last, so long may it continue!
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That has been a super effort by the lower order and obviously Broad. That 70 run lead could be invaluable, now we need to get into them.
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Not a great start from the bowlers here.
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Go on Monty!
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Not a great start from the bowlers here.
Good to see your commentators curse striking in a positive way, Paul!
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Not a great start from the bowlers here.
Good to see your commentators curse striking in a positive way, Paul!
Yes it's about time! 2 down!
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Not a great start from the bowlers here.
Good to see your commentators curse striking in a positive way, Paul!
Yes it's about time! 2 down!
Now it's 3!
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Monty you absolute beauty!
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been watching this morning, well done england, but i am sure he has been discussed before on here, Ajmal is throwing the ball more often than not. I am a level2 cricket coach and i wouldnt be allowed to let a kid carry on with an action like that! he bowled(loosely termed) 2 balls in succession this morning with same run up, approach and till shoulder height same action, then he let the first go and it was 69mph and the second 47mph. you just cannot do it in a normal bowling action. Are the authorities scared to go after this man as for the recent previous misdemeanours of pakistan?
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been watching this morning, well done england, but i am sure he has been discussed before on here, Ajmal is throwing the ball more often than not. I am a level2 cricket coach and i wouldnt be allowed to let a kid carry on with an action like that! he bowled(loosely termed) 2 balls in succession this morning with same run up, approach and till shoulder height same action, then he let the first go and it was 69mph and the second 47mph. you just cannot do it in a normal bowling action. Are the authorities scared to go after this man as for the recent previous misdemeanours of pakistan?
Billy Bowden called him for his action acouple of years ago and the ICC cleared him. That's not to say that he can't be called again.
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i dont think he is turning the ball massively either, varying degrees of pace are being gained and the alot of the time the arm looks well past this 15degree(nonsense) rule.
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I think we could do with a couple more wickets before they overtake us. Misbah and Azar would be nice!
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Monty strikes again!
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I bet Monty wishes that he could roll this strip up and carry it around in his kitbag!
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one of the great sporting sights is Monty celebrating taking a wicket
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Scores level, I wouldn't be confident in us chasing over 50!
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I think I'd give Broad a bowl.
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This partnership is getting rather frustrating.
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Could really do with a wicket here.
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Well this partnership has really thrown a spanner in the works. So they are essentially 55-4, we are still in front but need quick wickets tomorrow morning. It's been a great Test match.
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England still ahead and I expect them to win tomorrow chasing a target of circa 150. So far a great exhibition of test cricket. Well done to both teams.
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Well we got them out for a decent target. Cook gone already and I think Strauss should have been gone. I'm nervous.
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Bell gone, terrible.
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We are in trouble here. Right Pietersen step the fuck up.
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KP couldn't look more unsure if he tried.
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Were in some trouble here.............
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We need to be more aggressive here, all of this blocking is getting us nowhere. If and I hope he doesn't come in, but if Morgan does come in I think he should look to attack.
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Another fine display KP, out. For fucks sake.
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Get KP out of the team and bring in James Taylor
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Right Morgan it's time for you to step up. We have got to be more aggressive, this is appalling.
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I agree Paul.......
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Right that's it Morgan out of the team, fucking dreadful.
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I think so but bring in Bopara ??? He isnt test class.............The bowlers have been getting the batsmen out of trouble for ages. I hope we dont regret that waste of a review by KP as well
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Bopara in for Morgan, because he is offering absolutely fuck all.
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I think so but bring in Bopara ??? He isnt test class.............The bowlers have been getting the batsmen out of trouble for ages. I hope we dont regret that waste of a review by KP as well
No but he's the batsmen on tour and he's got a better record than Morgan.
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How much longer would you give KP Paul...............
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This is painful to watch, they look like rabbits in the headlights instead of the number 1 team in test cricket. They need to be more positive after tea but then shake up the batting line for the next one.
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Well this is turning into an abject lesson in how not to chase down a score. We've just let them bowl at us and not put them under any pressure.
Morgan's shot was particularly loose, bat coming down at an angle, back foot over towards square leg, just about sums up why he's not a Test Cricketer imo. His technique is awful, particularly when under pressure.
We can still win this but now we'll need to bat well to do it.
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How much longer would you give KP Paul...............
I'd get him in the nets and make him practice, but at least he had a really good year and the same goes for Bell. Morgan didn't have a remarkable year. I'm not writing off Morgan's test career, but he needs to go away and work on his technique.
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They have to be positive after tea or they are done.
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How much longer would you give KP Paul...............
I'm not writing off Morgan's test career, but he needs to go away and work on his technique.
But he doesn't have one to play at Test level. He got into the team by playing innings for the One day side where he played some unorthadox shots and proved he had a good eye when in form. To be a Test Cricketer you need more. But the must for any top 6 batsman is to have a solid technique so when you are not in form or on a tricky wicket you've something to fall back on.
Pietersen is going to be one of those players who just won't get scores in the subcontinent - he doesn't like spin, likes to take the ball on the up and the ball coming on to the bat in front of big crowds - none of which you'll find much of over there. Get him playing infront of a packed house against either Australia or South Africa and he'll be fine.
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Fantastic test match. Enland to win today with 6 down. For those of you only partially into cricket this is the stuff that makes us addicts.
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There is a case to send Broad, Swann in ahead of Trott to try and hit a quick fire 50/60 that would see us almost home
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Strauss gone, we are in massive trouble.
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This is fucking brainless & spineless
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This is bloody horrible.
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If Pakistan dont win this its gonna be their keepers fault...........some one put some gaffer tape around his mouth
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He cost them a run out of Trott.
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He cost them a run out of Trott.
and all of their reviews.............
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We need to be positive, we are going nowhere.
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Trott gone.
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We have to just go for it now, we are out of time and nearly out of wickets.
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This is the game now, it's this pair or nothing.
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Fuck.
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Broad gone, game over.
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This is fucking embarrassing and our batsmen should be fucking ashamed, again.
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This is simply f*cking unbelievable.
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Prior gone. I am absolutely seething at this display, we have been disgracefully under prepared for this tour. Our batsmen's inability to play spin is embarrassing. The batting on this tour has been disgusting.
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Thing is I'm not one for wholesale changes, but Morgan and KP in particular have been absolutely shocking this tour. Morgan has to go, and KP maybe needs to be dropped to show he's not a shoe in for the side.
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Thing is I'm not one for wholesale changes, but Morgan and KP in particular have been absolutely shocking this tour. Morgan has to go, and KP maybe needs to be dropped to show he's not a shoe in for the side.
Agree Paul, we haven't suddenly become a bad team and there's a danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater but things need freshening up and those pair are the most obviously at risk.
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Abysmal batting again from a team that collectively looks like they've not picked up a bat in 5 months. Pakistan are a decent side but 72 all out is an appalling effort.
Hope Strauss tells it like it is (like Micheal Clarke did in SA) and doesn't go into PR mode.
I hate to say this, but the Aussies (whose media are already counting down to next years Ashes) would piss all over us right now.
Morgan needs to go as soon as this tour is over, he just aint good enough.
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Also do we not bother to try and practice and improve our technique against spin. It's fucking appalling.
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It will be interesting to see what excuses Flower/Strauss come up with this time
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Morgan can go because he's never really scored runs and never looks like he will.
You can only drop KP if there is someone better knocking down the door. KP is a class batsman when on song, he scores quickly and opposition teams fear him. He stays for now.
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I think our lack of preparation for this tour is absolutely dreadful. We're supposed to be the number 1 side in the World and we have completely taken our eye off the ball.
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Morgan can go because he's never really scored runs and never looks like he will.
You can only drop KP if there is someone better knocking down the door. KP is a class batsman when on song, he scores quickly and opposition teams fear him. He stays for now.
He cant play spin though mate...........
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I'm also not sure Australia would beat us at all, on a fast bowlers wicket I fancy us. However this as I've set before has been an utter disgrace and our arrogance has done for us.
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I'm also not sure Australia would beat us at all, on a fast bowlers wicket I fancy us. However this as I've set before has been an utter disgrace and our arrogance has done for us.
I agree there top 3 is very poor we would still beat them
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This series better be treated to a massive wake up call and we need a plan to play on the sub continent style pitches.
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Appalling. Simply appalling.
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Morgan can go because he's never really scored runs and never looks like he will.
You can only drop KP if there is someone better knocking down the door. KP is a class batsman when on song, he scores quickly and opposition teams fear him. He stays for now.
He cant play spin though mate...........
But away from the subcontinent, he won't have to. I don't think he'll never get runs out there I accept that. But he also won't see those wickets or bowlers in SA or Aus. That's the deal with him.
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I'm also not sure Australia would beat us at all, on a fast bowlers wicket I fancy us. However this as I've set before has been an utter disgrace and our arrogance has done for us.
I agree there top 3 is very poor we would still beat them
May I suggest you take another look at Australia. Watson is still to come back and Warner looks like he can cut it at Test level. It's nowhere near the side that we played last year.
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I still think we'd beat them on a pacers pitch. We don't have problems against that really, it's quality spin that kills us. Australia don't have that.
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It will be interesting to see what excuses Flower/Strauss come up with this time
Strauss went into complete PR mode with Athers so i'm not expecting anything more from Flower. Probably not their style to discuss team flaws in public after a defeat. Shame as a bit of honesty about how the team played might be quite liberating after that.
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I'm also not sure Australia would beat us at all, on a fast bowlers wicket I fancy us. However this as I've set before has been an utter disgrace and our arrogance has done for us.
I agree there top 3 is very poor we would still beat them
May I suggest you take another look at Australia. Watson is still to come back and Warner looks like he can cut it at Test level. It's nowhere near the side that we played last year.
I will give u Watson but Warner........not in a million years mate and as for Shaun Marsh the top 3 have made 80 between them in six innings against the worse Indian attack in the past 20 years in this last test
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I still think we'd beat them on a pacers pitch. We don't have problems against that really, it's quality spin that kills us. Australia don't have that.
Any team has problems against the moving ball at 140 kph. Australia has 4 that are doing it. Sewag said this week it's the best attack he's ever faced with a 19 year old who took 10 wickets on debut bowling at 145 kph still to come back.
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I've been impressed by them, but like I said I fancy us against anyone in conditions that suit us.
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I'm also not sure Australia would beat us at all, on a fast bowlers wicket I fancy us. However this as I've set before has been an utter disgrace and our arrogance has done for us.
I agree there top 3 is very poor we would still beat them
May I suggest you take another look at Australia. Watson is still to come back and Warner looks like he can cut it at Test level. It's nowhere near the side that we played last year.
I will give u Watson but Warner........not in a million years mate and as for Shaun Marsh the top 3 have made 80 between them in six innings against the worse Indian attack in the past 20 years in this last test
Warner has scored 2 centuries in his first 4 Tests - one attacking and when where he carried his bat and played a wachful knock on a tough pitch. I think he'll do well for them. Marsh is gone though I agree for Watson. He has the lowest average of any batsman in a series for 4 Tests or more in Cricket history - 2.88.
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All I'll say for Bopara replacing Morgan is can he possibly do any worse? No. Morgan looks totally lost.
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Also if you sit in against quality spin like England have, you will get out sooner or later no doubt. We have to play positively, there is no other option.
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All I'll say for Bopara replacing Morgan is can he possibly do any worse? No. Morgan looks totally lost.
That is the only batting replacement that they have so I cant see any other changes
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Well that was a disgrace however this thread like all of our Cricket establishment is absolutley obsessed with Australia. We will never become truley best in the world unless we think futher than end of our nose. Cricket is played on the sub-continent and we need to go and win there not start worrying about *uckin Australia.
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The series is lost, there's an argument for giving everyone in the squad who hasn't yet featured a run out in the next one.
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The series is lost, there's an argument for giving everyone in the squad who hasn't yet featured a run out in the next one.
I would agree Broad/Anderson have been excellent tell them to put their feet up and bring in Finn/Onions
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Well that was a disgrace however this thread like all of our Cricket establishment is absolutley obsessed with Australia. We will never become truley best in the world unless we think futher than end of our nose. Cricket is played on the sub-continent and we need to go and win there not start worrying about *uckin Australia.
I don't think anyone is ignoring the fact that it's the sub-continent that's the issue.
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Pietersen is going to be one of those players who just won't get scores in the subcontinent - he doesn't like spin, likes to take the ball on the up and the ball coming on to the bat in front of big crowds - none of which you'll find much of over there. Get him playing infront of a packed house against either Australia or South Africa and he'll be fine.
and that means he will not be ranked with the finest batsmen in the world.
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England's capitulation was something I did not envisaged. I thought it was going to be tough but this was dreadful.
I guess there is some point in laying the blame on batters but once Monty, a barely adequate spinner at test level, got 5 wickets Pakistan's 3 world class twirlers were going to wreak untold damage and tha's what happenend.
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I think calling Monty a barely adequate spinner at Test level is extremely harsh. He lost his way a couple of years back, but look at his record it's perfectly good.
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What a gutless batting display. The bowlers did their job but the batsmen were clueless. Why didn't we attack and play positively? Instead all of the batsmen were caught like rabbits in car headlights.
I don't see too many changes being made. KP averaged over 70 in 2011 so he'll stay in. Morgan hasn't proved himself at test level but would Bopara be any better?
I'm concerned about the lack of decent batsmen who could be brought in. Time for some tough choices Strauss and Flower.
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What a gutless batting display. The bowlers did their job but the batsmen were clueless. Why didn't we attack and play positively? Instead all of the batsmen were caught like rabbits in car headlights.
I don't see too many changes being made. KP averaged over 70 in 2011 so he'll stay in. Morgan hasn't proved himself at test level but would Bopara be any better?
I'm concerned about the lack of decent batsmen who could be brought in. Time for some tough choices Strauss and Flower.
I repeat, could Bopara possibly do worse? no. Morgan needs to go back to the county game and work on his technique under pressure and he can come back. The likes of Taylor need to be given a go.
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The only positive from todays capitulation was Boycott on T.M.S. having to eat humble pie because yesterday he bet his house on England winning. When asked cheekily "which one?" He replied "All three"
Today he was brilliantly ribbed by all the T.M.S. team!
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I think calling Monty a barely adequate spinner at Test level is extremely harsh. He lost his way a couple of years back, but look at his record it's perfectly good.
Paul we will have to disagree on this. Monty is Test standard nothing more. His talent is limited and he does well to make the team. Players of true international class stand apart from also ran intenationals. Swann is a good example of that as he can be ranked amongst the best. Ajmal and Hafeez are also in that bracket.
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Fair enough. However I will also disagree on Hafeez, he's a part timer at best.
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I think calling Monty a barely adequate spinner at Test level is extremely harsh. He lost his way a couple of years back, but look at his record it's perfectly good.
Paul we will have to disagree on this. Monty is Test standard nothing more. His talent is limited and he does well to make the team. Players of true international class stand apart from also ran intenationals. Swann is a good example of that as he can be ranked amongst the best. Ajmal and Hafeez are also in that bracket.
Think back where Swanny was 5 years ago. He wasn't ready when first picked for England so worked on his technique and temperament at county level and is now one of the best bowlers in World cricket. To just write Monty off as "barely adequate" is extremely short sighte, in my opinion. This was his first game back for a couple of years and he out bowled Swann.
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I think calling Monty a barely adequate spinner at Test level is extremely harsh. He lost his way a couple of years back, but look at his record it's perfectly good.
Paul we will have to disagree on this. Monty is Test standard nothing more. His talent is limited and he does well to make the team. Players of true international class stand apart from also ran intenationals. Swann is a good example of that as he can be ranked amongst the best. Ajmal and Hafeez are also in that bracket.
Sorry Aftab but your wrong Hafeez has played 25 tests and got 26 wickets so thats an ave of 1 per test and Monty has played 40 tests and got 133 wickets so thats 3.25(ish) per test match
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I think calling Monty a barely adequate spinner at Test level is extremely harsh. He lost his way a couple of years back, but look at his record it's perfectly good.
Paul we will have to disagree on this. Monty is Test standard nothing more. His talent is limited and he does well to make the team. Players of true international class stand apart from also ran intenationals. Swann is a good example of that as he can be ranked amongst the best. Ajmal and Hafeez are also in that bracket.
Think back where Swanny was 5 years ago. He wasn't ready when first picked for England so worked on his technique and temperament at county level and is now one of the best bowlers in World cricket. To just write Monty off as "barely adequate" is extremely short sighte, in my opinion. This was his first game back for a couple of years and he out bowled Swann.
Correct Monty is a very fine bowler and has a good Test record, and I speak has someone who has faced him, he's fucking tricky to bat against!
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Correct Monty is a very fine bowler and has a good Test record, and I speak has someone who has faced him, he's fucking tricky to bat against!
That is a trump card so I will stop arguing at this point.
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Ha ha, I think my batting might be a slightly below Test level though.
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Can any one explain why it went so bad, they were spinning it but it wasnt moving all over the place, there was some variation but so called world class batsmen should be able to cope a lot better, was it because they were under prepared? Or is it a real technique problem? Surely they know that you have to ply to the pitch of the ball.
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Sorry Aftab but your wrong Hafeez has played 25 tests and got 26 wickets so thats an ave of 1 per test and Monty has played 40 tests and got 133 wickets so thats 3.25(ish) per test match
Can't argue on stats however Hafeez has another main job in the team but for bowling is always used in under pressure situations either to breakthrough or create conditions where other bowlers can come in and take wickets. I have studied him and rate him very highly as a bowler. so just a personal opinion.
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Can any one explain why it went so bad, they were spinning it but it wasnt moving all over the place, there was some variation but so called world class batsmen should be able to cope a lot better, was it because they were under prepared? Or is it a real technique problem? Surely they know that you have to ply to the pitch of the ball.
Yes they know that you have to play every ball on it's merit but Cricket players, and it does not matter what level as world class batsman play world class bowlers and park's batsman face park's bowlers, find demons where there are none. Yes the Pakistan bowlers were accurate and tricky but not 72 allout tricky for a team that includes Cooke, Straus, Trott , Bell etc. They lost their heads and the bodies follwed by freezing up resulting in poor decisions.
Other reasons have been discussed on here such as under prep and a level of arrogance.
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Can any one explain why it went so bad, they were spinning it but it wasnt moving all over the place, there was some variation but so called world class batsmen should be able to cope a lot better, was it because they were under prepared? Or is it a real technique problem? Surely they know that you have to ply to the pitch of the ball.
I think it was a combination of being under prepared, poor technique and buckling under pressure. They clearly have underestimated Pakistan's bowling unit and there's a lot of arrogance in that, they thought they could turn up and just win. Technically they look all over the place and don't move their feet at all. Under pressure they didn't try and be aggressive which they needed to do, they blocked continuously and obviously that was never going to get them anywhere. The batting performance has been absolutely dreadful on 3 out of 4 innings and frankly even in the 4th it was two batsmen who did well and the bowlers who got us to a decent score. The bowlers have been great, the batsmen as a unit have been nothing short of a disgrace.
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Why does Kevin Pieterson play for England?
Can he not get into the South African team?
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Far from it, the South Africans were very annoyed that he decided to play for England, he would have been playing Test cricket probably three years before his England debut as he had to sit out the qualifying period. He apparently decided on the move because he disagreed with the racial quota system in South Africa.
His mother is English by the way.
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A man with KP's average would get in any side in the world. I've been critical of him at times, but I am still a fan. He has the ability to take a game away from the opposition, he's just got to get mentally in the right place.
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And whilst we wait for him to get mentally right, Morgan will get dropped.
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And whilst we wait for him to get mentally right, Morgan will get dropped.
To be fair at least KP has a good record, I wouldn't say Morgan looks mentally great at the moment. He needs to make runs in domestic first class cricket to try and improve his technique.
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Perhaps after this series, I'd agree, but Morgan plays spin better than KP. Also, perhaps we should afford Morgan the same number of second chances that KP has had.
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And whilst we wait for him to get mentally right, Morgan will get dropped.
To be fair at least KP has a good record, I wouldn't say Morgan looks mentally great at the moment. He needs to make runs in domestic first class cricket to try and improve his technique.
Not against spin bowling he hasnt Paul his record is very poor
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I don't think Morgan has the same ability as Pietersen, also KP came in and largely did well. Morgan has a couple of centuries and one other score of note, he's scratched around most of the time. I think at the moment Morgan is very much more the candidate out of the team. I think for his long term development and for the England team, he needs to go and work on his game.
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I don't think Morgan has the same ability as Pietersen, also KP came in and largely did well. Morgan has a couple of centuries and one other score of note, he's scratched around most of the time. I think at the moment Morgan is very much more the candidate out of the team. I think for his long term development and for the England team, he needs to go and work on his game.
Morgan will be sacrificied and he will be the scapegoat, they cant drop anyone else as they have no other batting reserves
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Morgan will be sacrificied and he will be the scapegoat, they cant drop anyone else as they have no other batting reserves
But he's not a scapegoat though is he? Scapegoat would suggest he is being unfairly picked on. Yes other batsmen have been equally rubbish so far on this tour, but they all have many previous excellent performances to fall back on, Morgan does not, he has a couple of good innings and a lot of mediocre ones.
Great player to have in your one day team but just isn't cutting it as a test player yet.
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Morgan will be sacrificied and he will be the scapegoat, they cant drop anyone else as they have no other batting reserves
But he's not a scapegoat though is he? Scapegoat would suggest he is being unfairly picked on. Yes other batsmen have been equally rubbish so far on this tour, but they all have many previous excellent performances to fall back on, Morgan does not, he has a couple of good innings and a lot of mediocre ones.
Great player to have in your one day team but just isn't cutting it as a test player yet.
Exactly my view on it, I'm not giving up on him in the long term but he has a lot of work to do to be a Test player.
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Pietersen's had 2 bad test matches, as have the vast majority of the batsmen.
He had an excellent 2011.
England used to chop and change loads in the nineties, and it got them the sum total of fuck all.
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Far from it, the South Africans were very annoyed that he decided to play for England, he would have been playing Test cricket probably three years before his England debut as he had to sit out the qualifying period. He apparently decided on the move because he disagreed with the racial quota system in South Africa.His mother is English by the way.
Nothing to do with the fact that publicity and sponsorship opportunities were much greater as an England player!
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Cynic!
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Are you England, Are you England............. Are you England in disguise ?
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Are they all out yet?
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Nope 57-7, we need to knock them over now. Big game for Morgan this he needs runs. We need to win this Test to ensure we remain number 1 in the rankings.
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77-7, bloody hell they've gone beyond our batting capabilities!
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Who's that coming over the hill? It's the "Mont-ster"
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Anyone else feeling a little underwhelmed so far?
Normally when I switch it on to see the opposition 7 down at lunch I get a nice lift and have a spring in my step. After the results of the first two tests I'm still a little shellshocked. Still, it's an indication of how far we've come I guess.
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.... it's the Mont-ster (again)
And yes, it is all a bit underwhelming.
However, I think that England need to win (or maybe just draw) to retain their Number 1 ranking and rake in some extra money.
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99 all out. If we don't win it from here serious questions need to be asked.
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(http://www.55max.com/images/prod/mw_99_LG.jpg) All Out
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We now return you to our regularly scheduled England performance
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Trott gone
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This is a seriously surreal day of cricket
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Trott gone
Should have reviewed it, Hawkeye showed the ball the missing leg stump.
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Oh dear, looks like 99 is going to be about 60 too much for us.
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KP needs to stop getting angry and aggrieved about LBW decisions against slow left arm bowlers. He needs to realise he needs to change his approach.
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Bell fails again. Big innings for Morgan now.
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Well they clearly haven't learnt anything, this is pitiful. We're going to have a lead but once again the middle order has blown up.
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At least Pietersen got some runs. This is pathetic and we can't continue with the approach of the batting will come right. This is 4 out of 5 innings that have been horrible from our batsmen and 1 that has been passable.
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203 - 16 in a day's play.
I still can't figure out if it's the pitch or poor batting.
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Poor batting I think, didn't look a particularly bad pitch. Pietersen tried to be positive and got a few runs, but Morgan and Bell have done terribly again. This is the poorest English tour for batting I have seen in a long while.
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Agree poor batting from both teams as wickets are spread amongst the pacers and spinners. If this was a pitch issue than it would be either fast bowlers or spinners not both. However it's much mor fun when bowlers are on top.
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Not when you had planned a leisurely Sunday in front of the box watching cricket followed by our glorious win at Sid James Park, this'll be over by tea tomorrow the way it's going.
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Watching the highlights, KP clearly has to stay in the side. He looks in much better touch even if he did get out, and he'll come good.
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Morgan is having a big problem with going back. I also think DRS should be limited to 1 review an innings. Taufel had an uncharacteristically bad day.
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Also I think Pietersen out decision was way way too harsh from the umpire. It didn't look out and it barely flicked the bails, I think the umpire's are becoming too aggressive with their decisions.
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Paul problem is Morgan going back and KP going forward. KP is probably one of the few players in the world who could play every ball from Ajmal and Rehman on merit but he is not doing that.
I like reviews and they contribute to more results and fewer draws and that is good.
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Not when you had planned a leisurely Sunday in front of the box watching cricket followed by our glorious win at Sid James Park, this'll be over by tea tomorrow the way it's going.
I think the match will go to Sunday and it will be a very tense end followed by an easy win for the C&B's.
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I agree to an extent Aftab, I like DRS overall. However I think the umpires need to be a little less aggressive, for me KP's decision was way too harsh especially allowing for the margin of error for hawkeye.
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DRS has changed the game in the last year. Umpires will now give bold decisions when a batsman pads away a spinner. Taking that negativity out of the game is a good thing but it's gone too far the other way. KP's dismissal is an example of this. If you add the fact that the Indian board are not in favour of it then the waters get muddied still more.
All tests should be played, local conditions aside, on the same basis. It's either all use DRS or not at all.
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I think we are in big trouble here.
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Also I think Pietersen out decision was way way too harsh from the umpire. It didn't look out and it barely flicked the bails, I think the umpire's are becoming too aggressive with their decisions.
But had it missed his legs it would have hit the stumps, yes? Which is, after all, the point! Use your bat, then you can't be out LBW.
I like DRS, it may have tweaked things a little too far in favour of the bowlers, but rather that than 650 runs per innings snooze fests. Good batsmen will adapt.
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Also I think Pietersen out decision was way way too harsh from the umpire. It didn't look out and it barely flicked the bails, I think the umpire's are becoming too aggressive with their decisions.
But had it missed his legs it would have hit the stumps, yes? Which is, after all, the point! Use your bat, then you can't be out LBW.
I like DRS, it may have tweaked things a little too far in favour of the bowlers, but rather that than 650 runs per innings snooze fests. Good batsmen will adapt.
I agree that it's overall been good, but that Pietersen decision yesterday was harsh. Considering hawyeye has a 5% margin of error and it barely touched the bails, I'm not remotely convinced it would have hit the stumps. Umpires are giving people out because they have the back up of DRS, and I think they should just be a bit more conservative. The bowling team can always review if they think they've been hard done by. I agree that 650 plays 650 is rubbish, but so are 2 and a half/3 day Test matches.
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That 5% margin of error could equally have meant it was uprooting the stump.
All the batsmen have to do is use their bat to hit the ball, that's what it's there for after all.
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That 5% margin of error could equally have meant it was uprooting the stump.
All the batsmen have to do is use their bat to hit the ball, that's what it's there for after all.
Potentially but in this case you can look at the flight and it clearly wasn't. I agree that you don't want to see batsmen padding away, but there has to be a balance. It's not the review system itself its how the umpires make their decisions.
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How can you say it wasn't? Hawkeye says it might have been given the 5% either way margin of error.
The umpires are learning this system as much as the players, as they have seen more and more reviews they are realising that the stumps are actually quite wide and balls that they previously thought were sliding down leg will actually hit leg stump. Clipping the stump is out, that's the way it is.
And one thing it has done is practically remove altogether the glaring errors made by umpires.
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All I'm saying having played and watched cricket for a number of years it looked wrong, and I think prior to DRS the umpire never would have given it. I like DRS being there for howlers, but I think the umpires do need to be slightly more conservative as batsmen need a chance. In any case England are getting hammered now.
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All I'm saying having played and watched cricket for a number of years it looked wrong, and I think prior to DRS the umpire never would have given it.
There you go, prior to DRS that decision,and many others like it, would have been wrong!
And yes, we are now getting quite royally stuffed.
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We can't be in both camps. Use technology however still chase judgement of does it look right. HE decision was it's going to hit some part of the timber and that's it. I think it's great. What surprised me vwas a DRS was given incorrectly (Hafeez I thnik) when on field umpire had made the right decision.
More worrying is the Indian Board's decision to not partake in this. They should be made to comply otherwise stats on wickets are going to look silly.
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I think we are in big trouble here.
Do you hate being proved right?
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In this case yes.
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Can I make two points;
A) Why is Englands batting coach not with the team in Dubai rather than sitting with his feet up in Essex ?
B) Why when we know that the Pakistan attack will have at least one left arm spinner in the team and we know we play spin poorly have we not got a "net bowler" lined up rather than relying on Jimmy Anderson to twirl spin ?
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Can I make two points;
A) Why is Englands batting coach not with the team in Dubai rather than sitting with his feet up in Essex ?
B) Why when we know that the Pakistan attack will have at least one left arm spinner in the team and we know we play spin poorly have we not got a "net bowler" lined up rather than relying on Jimmy Anderson to twirl spin ?
a) No idea. But Flower was batting coach before so he could fill in.
b) Isn't Mushtaq Ahmed the spin bowling coach? Assuming he's there with them, we don't have another spinner that could replicate anything like what they're facing.
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Can I make two points;
A) Why is Englands batting coach not with the team in Dubai rather than sitting with his feet up in Essex ?
B) Why when we know that the Pakistan attack will have at least one left arm spinner in the team and we know we play spin poorly have we not got a "net bowler" lined up rather than relying on Jimmy Anderson to twirl spin ?
a) No idea. But Flower was batting coach before so he could fill in.
b) Isn't Mushtaq Ahmed the spin bowling coach? Assuming he's there with them, we don't have another spinner that could replicate anything like what they're facing.
Disagree it smacks of complacency as does all of our batting
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More worrying is the Indian Board's decision to not partake in this. They should be made to comply otherwise stats on wickets are going to look silly.
Yes 100%.
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A) Why is Englands batting coach not with the team in Dubai rather than sitting with his feet up in Essex ?
Apparently, Graham Gooch is only contracted by the ECB to do a certain number of days a year so isn't with the side. I'd imagine Gooch would love to be there as is his passion for the game.
Considering the amount of support staff that this side has, it's unbelievable that Gooch hasn't gone on this tour and yet again smacks of complacency.
This tour has really exposed a few things and they arn't good.
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This tour has really exposed a few things and they arn't good.
Or conversely it is good, unlike previous regimes when bugger all will have been done to improve our deficiencies, I have every confidence that we will learn from this and come back.
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Yes, I understand what you mean. But they really shouldn't have to 'learn' some of the mistakes that they've made - not as top class sportpeople. But i suppose if it has to happen, better it be against Pakistan in Dubia than aginst the insufferable Saffas for worse still Aussies.
How many of us saw this coming though, I know I didn't.
It does make those predictions that England could have a stranglehold on the top spot for a few years like the Aussies and Windies did seem extremely hollow though.
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I didn't see this coming either, so it will either be a big kick up the arse and we'll come back fighting, or we've been found out, I favour the former but who knows!
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I agree I think we'll come back, but we need a lot of work for Sri Lanka and India.
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Pakistan are 217 ahead. Is that enough?!
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They're 305 ahead now, it all depends how we bat. There isn't an issue for time, but if we bat like we have done there is obviously no chance.
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It's turning plenty now, so I think we're going to struggle badly.
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Can I make two points;
A) Why is Englands batting coach not with the team in Dubai rather than sitting with his feet up in Essex ?
B) Why when we know that the Pakistan attack will have at least one left arm spinner in the team and we know we play spin poorly have we not got a "net bowler" lined up rather than relying on Jimmy Anderson to twirl spin ?
a) No idea. But Flower was batting coach before so he could fill in.
b) Isn't Mushtaq Ahmed the spin bowling coach? Assuming he's there with them, we don't have another spinner that could replicate anything like what they're facing.
Disagree it smacks of complacency as does all of our batting
Flower was rated number one batsman in the world. How is that complacent? The batsmen need help and advice and Flower can deliver it.
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It's turning plenty now, so I think we're going to struggle badly.
I think so too. I'll be amazed if we can pull this out of the bag.
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Can I make two points;
A) Why is Englands batting coach not with the team in Dubai rather than sitting with his feet up in Essex ?
B) Why when we know that the Pakistan attack will have at least one left arm spinner in the team and we know we play spin poorly have we not got a "net bowler" lined up rather than relying on Jimmy Anderson to twirl spin ?
a) No idea. But Flower was batting coach before so he could fill in.
b) Isn't Mushtaq Ahmed the spin bowling coach? Assuming he's there with them, we don't have another spinner that could replicate anything like what they're facing.
Disagree it smacks of complacency as does all of our batting
Flower was rated number one batsman in the world. How is that complacent? The batsmen need help and advice and Flower can deliver it.
So why after 5 innings have the batsmen still no idea on how to play spin...............
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Bloody hell they're folding like us.
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I notice as well those falling at the moment are all prodding around and not being aggressive.
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Sad news on Yuvraj, hope he recovers soon.
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Sad news on Yuvraj, hope he recovers soon.
Well said Paul
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Can I make two points;
A) Why is Englands batting coach not with the team in Dubai rather than sitting with his feet up in Essex ?
B) Why when we know that the Pakistan attack will have at least one left arm spinner in the team and we know we play spin poorly have we not got a "net bowler" lined up rather than relying on Jimmy Anderson to twirl spin ?
a) No idea. But Flower was batting coach before so he could fill in.
b) Isn't Mushtaq Ahmed the spin bowling coach? Assuming he's there with them, we don't have another spinner that could replicate anything like what they're facing.
Disagree it smacks of complacency as does all of our batting
Flower was rated number one batsman in the world. How is that complacent? The batsmen need help and advice and Flower can deliver it.
So why after 5 innings have the batsmen still no idea on how to play spin...............
This is nothing new. We always struggle against sub-continental spin. Our overseas record against India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka is woeful.
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Can I make two points;
A) Why is Englands batting coach not with the team in Dubai rather than sitting with his feet up in Essex ?
B) Why when we know that the Pakistan attack will have at least one left arm spinner in the team and we know we play spin poorly have we not got a "net bowler" lined up rather than relying on Jimmy Anderson to twirl spin ?
a) No idea. But Flower was batting coach before so he could fill in.
b) Isn't Mushtaq Ahmed the spin bowling coach? Assuming he's there with them, we don't have another spinner that could replicate anything like what they're facing.
Disagree it smacks of complacency as does all of our batting
Flower was rated number one batsman in the world. How is that complacent? The batsmen need help and advice and Flower can deliver it.
So why after 5 innings have the batsmen still no idea on how to play spin...............
This is nothing new. We always struggle against sub-continental spin. Our overseas record against India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka is woeful.
We had a good couple of years about 10 years ago over there, under Hussain & Fletcher with his famous forward press, which the batsmen used to great effect.
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Gower has just mentioned that Yuvraj Singh is being treated for lung cancer. Get well soon Yuvraj.
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Can I make two points;
A) Why is Englands batting coach not with the team in Dubai rather than sitting with his feet up in Essex ?
B) Why when we know that the Pakistan attack will have at least one left arm spinner in the team and we know we play spin poorly have we not got a "net bowler" lined up rather than relying on Jimmy Anderson to twirl spin ?
a) No idea. But Flower was batting coach before so he could fill in.
b) Isn't Mushtaq Ahmed the spin bowling coach? Assuming he's there with them, we don't have another spinner that could replicate anything like what they're facing.
Disagree it smacks of complacency as does all of our batting
Flower was rated number one batsman in the world. How is that complacent? The batsmen need help and advice and Flower can deliver it.
So why after 5 innings have the batsmen still no idea on how to play spin...............
This is nothing new. We always struggle against sub-continental spin. Our overseas record against India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka is woeful.
Its a good job we have prepared well for playing in all 3 countries in this calender year then isnt it........
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Can I make two points;
A) Why is Englands batting coach not with the team in Dubai rather than sitting with his feet up in Essex ?
B) Why when we know that the Pakistan attack will have at least one left arm spinner in the team and we know we play spin poorly have we not got a "net bowler" lined up rather than relying on Jimmy Anderson to twirl spin ?
a) No idea. But Flower was batting coach before so he could fill in.
b) Isn't Mushtaq Ahmed the spin bowling coach? Assuming he's there with them, we don't have another spinner that could replicate anything like what they're facing.
Disagree it smacks of complacency as does all of our batting
Flower was rated number one batsman in the world. How is that complacent? The batsmen need help and advice and Flower can deliver it.
So why after 5 innings have the batsmen still no idea on how to play spin...............
This is nothing new. We always struggle against sub-continental spin. Our overseas record against India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka is woeful.
We had a good couple of years about 10 years ago over there, under Hussain & Fletcher with his famous forward press, which the batsmen used to great effect.
The foward press that has been rendered useless by DRS
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Can I make two points;
A) Why is Englands batting coach not with the team in Dubai rather than sitting with his feet up in Essex ?
B) Why when we know that the Pakistan attack will have at least one left arm spinner in the team and we know we play spin poorly have we not got a "net bowler" lined up rather than relying on Jimmy Anderson to twirl spin ?
a) No idea. But Flower was batting coach before so he could fill in.
b) Isn't Mushtaq Ahmed the spin bowling coach? Assuming he's there with them, we don't have another spinner that could replicate anything like what they're facing.
Disagree it smacks of complacency as does all of our batting
Flower was rated number one batsman in the world. How is that complacent? The batsmen need help and advice and Flower can deliver it.
So why after 5 innings have the batsmen still no idea on how to play spin...............
This is nothing new. We always struggle against sub-continental spin. Our overseas record against India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka is woeful.
We had a good couple of years about 10 years ago over there, under Hussain & Fletcher with his famous forward press, which the batsmen used to great effect.
The foward press that has been rendered useless by DRS
That's the one, I didn't say use it now though. I was merely commenting that it was key to us winning back then. The key to playing spin is & always has been good foot movement.
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Spangley it's difficult to prepare for sub-continent conditions and bowlers! How would you do it?
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Spangley it's difficult to prepare for sub-continent conditions and bowlers! How would you do it?
I would have taken all the players to Bangladesh for 6 weeks before the tour and made sure my batting coach was available full time and was on this trip and I would have made sure that we had several different types of spin bowlers available to bowl to the team in the nets. I would also have taken James Taylor on this tour
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Spangley it's difficult to prepare for sub-continent conditions and bowlers! How would you do it?
I would have taken all the players to Bangladesh for 6 weeks before the tour and made sure my batting coach was available full time and was on this trip and I would have made sure that we had several different types of spin bowlers available to bowl to the team in the nets. I would also have taken James Taylor on this tour
I agree but how good will these net spinners be?
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They would be better than Jimmy Anderson bowling spin at them but I can see your point that they may not be of a good enough standard but it may have given the batsmen an idea about how to play spin on these sort of pitches
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They would be better than Jimmy Anderson bowling spin at them but I can see your point that they may not be of a good enough standard but it may have given the batsmen an idea about how to play spin on these sort of pitches
Generally, and the Duncan Fletcher-press era aside, we struggle in these conditions. Sub-continental conditions are as alien to English batsmen as English conditions are alien to Indian, Pakistani and Sr Lankan players
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They would be better than Jimmy Anderson bowling spin at them but I can see your point that they may not be of a good enough standard but it may have given the batsmen an idea about how to play spin on these sort of pitches
Generally, and the Duncan Fletcher-press era aside, we struggle in these conditions. Sub-continental conditions are as alien to English batsmen as English conditions are alien to Indian, Pakistani and Sr Lankan players
The pitches have been slow but I dont think that they have spun that much do you...........
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They would be better than Jimmy Anderson bowling spin at them but I can see your point that they may not be of a good enough standard but it may have given the batsmen an idea about how to play spin on these sort of pitches
Generally, and the Duncan Fletcher-press era aside, we struggle in these conditions. Sub-continental conditions are as alien to English batsmen as English conditions are alien to Indian, Pakistani and Sr Lankan players
The pitches have been slow but I dont think that they have spun that much do you...........
No and this pitch in particular should be a batsman's dream as Azhar and Younis have proved.
However a decent left arm spinner bowling into the rough against a left-handed batsman will be tricky. We have 6 left handers.....
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They would be better than Jimmy Anderson bowling spin at them but I can see your point that they may not be of a good enough standard but it may have given the batsmen an idea about how to play spin on these sort of pitches
Generally, and the Duncan Fletcher-press era aside, we struggle in these conditions. Sub-continental conditions are as alien to English batsmen as English conditions are alien to Indian, Pakistani and Sr Lankan players
The pitches have been slow but I dont think that they have spun that much do you...........
No and this pitch in particular should be a batsman's dream as Azhar and Younis have proved.
However a decent left arm spinner bowling into the rough against a left-handed batsman will be tricky. We have 6 left handers.....
Lets hope when they go to Sri Lanka next month we have learnt our lesson
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Azhar gone.
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323 to win, Monty five for!
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Well bowled Monty.................
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In theory with more than two days to score 323 we should walk it. In reality, our batsmen must be bricking it!
Judging by the 1st innings, Strauss and KP are in some sort of form so let's hope that they each grind out a score.
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323 has only been chased down 14 times in Test history.
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We need to be no more than 2 down at around 120 to stand a chance.
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We've made 4 without losing a wicket so that's a bonus.
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Cook dropped already
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We need to be no more than 2 down at around 120 to stand a chance.
We could be 200 for 0 and I wouldn't be confident at the moment!
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I think teams should penalised 5 runs for obviously ridiculous appeals. It's really annoying when teams constantly appeal when it's clearly not out.
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First 4 need to stand up and be counted. When spinners come on use the bat and not leave it or pad up.
and one more thing "champions" usually prevail in these circumstances. Bowlers have done well to bring some sort of respectability now it's....
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Here comes the spin.
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Here comes the first spinner
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Strauss has got to pick the length better, going back is suicide.
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I think teams should penalised 5 runs for obviously ridiculous appeals. It's really annoying when teams constantly appeal when it's clearly not out.
I think their wicketkeeper's voice will be less annoying once his balls have dropped.
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Better from Strauss, he's using his feet against the spinner.
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Bloody wicket keeper appeals for LBW when it's clearly an edge.
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Adnan Akmal is remarkably irritating.
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Adnan Akmal is remarkably irritating.
I would have smacked him by now with my bat
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Bad review from Pakistan.
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Bad review from Pakistan.
Very poor lets hope it costs them........................
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Strauss needs to stop going back.
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They've actually done really well to be there at the close, there's a chance here. They've got to continue the approach they've taken today.
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They've actually done really well to be there at the close, there's a chance here. They've got to continue the approach they've taken today.
Did well in the end and I thought your 120 runs by close was a bit ambitious............
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Well I have placed at £10 bet at 2/1 for England to win..so now I hope the batsmen realise they have responsibilty to deliver £30 back to me!!
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The first session tomorrow will be vital. We need to see it through with little or no alarms.
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This is attritional stuff.
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4 and 6 from KP.
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KP gone that could be game over.
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Cook gone and that will be it.
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Bell gone, question marks have to be over his place now.
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Morgan gone, this is dismal.
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Well I have placed at £10 bet at 2/1 for England to win..so now I hope the batsmen realise they have responsibilty to deliver £30 back to me!!
I still have hope!
edited: do i not like this!
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Paul not seen anything this morning post lunch. What do you think of the defend defend strategy adapted by the batsmen? Normally in my experience it never works against good spinners.
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Bell gone, question marks have to be over his place now.
Who are you going to bring in who's better, Bell averaged 118 last year, and all the batsmen have failed over in the UAE, might as well have questioned all their places if that is the case.
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This series has been a total embarrassment. Only positive Panesar
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Bell gone, question marks have to be over his place now.
You think that Pietersen, Strauss & Morgan are more worthy of a place then?
At the end of the day we've come up woefully short against spin bowling, even Cook & Trott have had below average a series. We need to acknowledge that the difference in our conditions & sub-continent conditions is huge & encourage U19 & A tours to play there at every opportunity.
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Bell gone, question marks have to be over his place now.
You think that Pietersen, Strauss & Morgan are more worthy of a place then?
At the end of the day we've come up woefully short against spin bowling, even Cook & Trott have had below average a series. We need to acknowledge that the difference in our conditions & sub-continent conditions is huge & encourage U19 & A tours to play there at every opportunity.
I think there are question marks over all of them, but Bell hasn't got one respectable score this series and the rest have at least got one each.
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Paul not seen anything this morning post lunch. What do you think of the defend defend strategy adapted by the batsmen? Normally in my experience it never works against good spinners.
No I don't think it works because you don't make any progress.
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Bell gone, question marks have to be over his place now.
You think that Pietersen, Strauss & Morgan are more worthy of a place then?
At the end of the day we've come up woefully short against spin bowling, even Cook & Trott have had below average a series. We need to acknowledge that the difference in our conditions & sub-continent conditions is huge & encourage U19 & A tours to play there at every opportunity.
I think there are question marks over all of them, but Bell hasn't got one respectable score this series and the rest have at least got one each.
I beg to differ.
Strauss...............3 games 6 inns ....... 150 runs @ 25.00...... high score 56
Pietersen............3 games 6 inns........ 67 runs @ 11.16...... high score 32
Bell......................3 games 6 inns........ 51 runs @ 8.50........high score 29
Morgan................3 games 6 inns .......82 runs @ 13.66.......High score 31
I'll concede that Bell is the worst of a bad bunch, but over the last couple of years he's been far better than any of the other 3, that to me buys hims some time.
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Well on the way to a 100 run partnership between Prior and Anderson.
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Well that's all over and what an horrendous effort by England throughout this series. The batsmen have managed over 200 twice in 6 innings and that is dreadful. Well played Pakistan, but we have been dreadful. The batsmen should be ashamed of their performances. I don't exclude any of them from that other than Prior really. Strauss - Bad, Cook - one good score, one decent and the rest terrible, Trott - poor overall, Pietersen - Bad, Bell - Awful(as he never even looked like he was getting comfortable), Morgan - Awful.
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So where do we go from here?
It's not a time for wholesale changes in the batting order. Certainly they all need to take a long hard look at themselves and as Flower has said the squad is not a closed shop.
We need to stick with the current line up for a number of reasons, notably that Bopara is not the answer and that the "next gen" batsmen like Taylor and Buttler are predominantly one day players who need time to develop their game in the longer format.
The current group have not become bad batsmen overnight. They were under cooked and attention needs to be paid to this aspect rather than wholesale changes.
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The problem is preparation. Before the series England hadnt played test cricket for 4-5 months. They play 2 warm up matches, and then play 3 back to back test matches, so any problems they encountered during the tests, they couldnt iron out in practice games between tests. thats the problem with modern touring.
I think Bell is such an attractive ellegant batsmen when he is in form(and i say that as a worcestershire fan), and i think Morgan is an excellent prospect, so i wouldnt want to see either them lose there places yet. My patience is running thin with Pieterson, and i think a spell out of the team would rejuvenate him.
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The problem is preparation. Before the series England hadnt played test cricket for 4-5 months. They play 2 warm up matches, and then play 3 back to back test matches, so any problems they encountered during the tests, they couldnt iron out in practice games between tests. thats the problem with modern touring.
I think Bell is such an attractive ellegant batsmen when he is in form(and i say that as a worcestershire fan), and i think Morgan is an excellent prospect, so i wouldnt want to see either them lose there places yet. My patience is running thin with Pieterson, and i think a spell out of the team would rejuvenate him.
I agree with everything you say there mate and IMO KP is more interested in the IPL than anything else
Very disappointed to see that Bell has been dropped from the ODI squad but he is paying the price for the decision to appoint Cook as ODI skipper
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Dropping Bell after one bad test series would be incredibly ludicrous.
He averaged over 100 in test cricket last year!!!!
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well we do write players off easily don't we. Bell scored 950 test runs last year
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A big part of the reason England have been so successful over the last few years is the faith they have shown in their players.
The chopping and changing of the mid to late nineties was hardly beneficial.
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I don't think chopping and changing is a good idea, but speaking purely from a Test perspective the batsmen need to know they do not have a divine right to play. The Bell being dropped from one day is partially down to his recent one day record, but also I imagine to give him a mental break. He looked completely shot at the end of the Test series and a bit of time to refocus may benefit him.
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I don't think chopping and changing is a good idea, but speaking purely from a Test perspective the batsmen need to know they do not have a divine right to play. The Bell being dropped from one day is partially down to his recent one day record, but also I imagine to give him a mental break. He looked completely shot at the end of the Test series and a bit of time to refocus may benefit him.
I agree Paul, the players don't have a divine right to play. However the lack of a credible batting alternative will undoubtedly breed complacency.
We have several young players who are aged around 20 who appear to have the talent but are strong one day players. They need time to develop their game in the longer form. Think Bairstow, Taylor, Buttler. The generation of players ahead of them has not produced any credible alternatives. Bopara has had his chance and never took it. He was dropped for in favour of Trott and Trott has not looked back.
We need to blood the next generation over the next few series which will help avoid a repeat of the Pakistan whitewash.
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well we do write players off easily don't we. Bell scored 950 test runs last year
No we don't, we have stuck by many a player going through a bad patch.
Bell is dropped for the ODI's, he'll be back for Sri Lanka.
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India cricketer Yuvraj Singh has spoken out for the first time about his battle with cancer. He says he is "Positive I would be back on the pitch soon," adding: "Tough times don't last, tough men do".
good luck on your battle Yuvraj.
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Pakistan v Afganistan is on now @ paddypower.com
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Great knock for a century from Cook and Bopara reaches 50.
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Good to see Morgan has continued his good form.
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We really need Cook to still be in at the death here.
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Probably going to end up about twenty short of what we need.
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I feel sorry for Kieswetter, I don't think that's really his position and he's asked to go in a swing the bat. I'd consider him at the top and Butler in the middle order. Anyway Finn's started nicely, 1 down already.
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Finn running through them, 4 wickets already.
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Finn is the model bowler for conditions out there this evening. If he picks up another specially Misbah before his stint ends than it's game over.
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Misbah gone, that should be it I reckon, Pakistan's tail doesn't wag too often.
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I feel sorry for Kieswetter, I don't think that's really his position and he's asked to go in a swing the bat. I'd consider him at the top and Butler in the middle order. Anyway Finn's started nicely, 1 down already.
I'd stick with it a bit longer, perhaps at 5.
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Good performance and much better, they need to build on that and continue it for the rest of the year.
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Bowler of the match, batsman of the match, top scorer, man of the match, etc. How many awards were there?!
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Having watched Cook's innings I'm very impressed with his quick development as a one day player. He's learnt very quickly about manouvering the ball around to keep his scoring rate up. So I think the prospects for him as the One day captain may be good.
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Having watched Cook's innings I'm very impressed with his quick development as a one day player. He's learnt very quickly about manouvering the ball around to keep his scoring rate up. So I think the prospects for him as the One day captain may be good.
Let's hope so.
We still went from 188-2 to 232-7 in less than 10 overs which is worrying. KP, Trott, Morgan & Kieswetter must do better.
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Having watched Cook's innings I'm very impressed with his quick development as a one day player. He's learnt very quickly about manouvering the ball around to keep his scoring rate up. So I think the prospects for him as the One day captain may be good.
Let's hope so.
We still went from 188-2 to 232-7 in less than 10 overs which is worrying. KP, Trott, Morgan & Kieswetter must do better.
Oh absolutely, although I'd cut Kies a bit of slack as he's never played in that position at International level.
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Having watched Cook's innings I'm very impressed with his quick development as a one day player. He's learnt very quickly about manouvering the ball around to keep his scoring rate up. So I think the prospects for him as the One day captain may be good.
Let's hope so.
We still went from 188-2 to 232-7 in less than 10 overs which is worrying. KP, Trott, Morgan & Kieswetter must do better.
Not really, if you are 188-2 in an ODI then it's pretty obvious that you are getting on towards the end of the innings and need any new batsman to push on, losing a few wickets in this situation shouldn't be a problem and in the end wasn't. Shame that Morgan and Kieswetter didn't get a score but Bopara kept his head and the lower-middle order added enough.
Trott though, nah, just don't see him as a one-dayer, would like to see a youngster such as Buttler given a chance in his position.
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Having watched Cook's innings I'm very impressed with his quick development as a one day player. He's learnt very quickly about manouvering the ball around to keep his scoring rate up. So I think the prospects for him as the One day captain may be good.
Let's hope so.
We still went from 188-2 to 232-7 in less than 10 overs which is worrying. KP, Trott, Morgan & Kieswetter must do better.
Not really, if you are 188-2 in an ODI then it's pretty obvious that you are getting on towards the end of the innings and need any new batsman to push on, losing a few wickets in this situation shouldn't be a problem and in the end wasn't. Shame that Morgan and Kieswetter didn't get a score but Bopara kept his head and the lower-middle order added enough.
Trott though, nah, just don't see him as a one-dayer, would like to see a youngster such as Buttler given a chance in his position.
Yeah I don't really see the value of Trott in there either.
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Having watched Cook's innings I'm very impressed with his quick development as a one day player. He's learnt very quickly about manouvering the ball around to keep his scoring rate up. So I think the prospects for him as the One day captain may be good.
Let's hope so.
We still went from 188-2 to 232-7 in less than 10 overs which is worrying. KP, Trott, Morgan & Kieswetter must do better.
Not really, if you are 188-2 in an ODI then it's pretty obvious that you are getting on towards the end of the innings and need any new batsman to push on, losing a few wickets in this situation shouldn't be a problem and in the end wasn't. Shame that Morgan and Kieswetter didn't get a score but Bopara kept his head and the lower-middle order added enough.
Trott though, nah, just don't see him as a one-dayer, would like to see a youngster such as Buttler given a chance in his position.
Yeah I don't really see the value of Trott in there either.
I'd rather see Bell in rather than Trott.
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I think the idea of Trott is that he ensures we bat 50 overs. We don't score more runs as his runrate is so poor, but at least we bat 50 overs. ;o)
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KP getting in and out again. I don't think Trott should be in the side, you can build an innings around Cook you don't need both. I think Buttler should come in when he's fit.
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These one dayers will be decided by the toss. The day/night games will be won by the team batting first unless they mess up. At this time of the year climate changes drastically once the sun goes down out there.
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Trott really struggles with forcing the pace and that's how he got out, so I think that's why he should be replaced by Buttler and move the order up.
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Another one day ton for Cook - well batted Sir!
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Brilliant effort again, Bopara playing a nice role as well which he did the other day and was largely ignored.
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Cook gone now, the others need to push on now.
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Good win again and great effort from Finn and Cook. Also special mention to Bopara two really good 50s.
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Finn is pushing very hard for a Test place as well. He looks devestating now, he's stopped being expensive and is continuing to take wickets at a great pace.
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You're right. The discipline with which he's bowled, particularly with so little game time, and at speed has been most impressive.
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Jimmy got a bit of pasting in the first over.
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Jimmy's line is well off, he's started poorly.
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Finn strikes.
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I think if I was next to the person using the air horn, I would have to batter him.
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Broad oversteps on a wicket ball, nice one.
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England fighting back nicely, Broad takes a wicket and then Finn again.
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Need to get these 2 out asap.
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Afridi and Umar are doing a great job of putting them in this match. We need KP to get runs today.
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Big wicket that, Umar gone.
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Brilliant spell by Finn again.
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We did well to wrestle the initiative back there. Akmar and Afridi could have easily taken the game away from us. Great bowling from the seam attack, Finn in particular.
Their 30 overs went went for 118 and they took 8 wickets between them. The depth and variety in our bowling unit makes them a force to be reckoned with in all forms of the game.
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KP is obviously trying to play his shots.
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KP gets a life on 47, but he's played well and looks a lot more like the batsman he can be. This backs up my belief that the batsmen were just hideously under prepared for the Test matches.
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Record opening stand by Cook & Pietersen
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Great 100 from KP, looks right back at it.
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Great win. Strong in all areas.
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superb from KP, on that form we have no one else even close to his quality, as soon as a bowler pressures him he hits them out of the attack.
Cook is the form batsman in the world over the last 18months. Had a bad test series but is back to his ashes form now and looks like a rock at the top of the order.
Brilliant from the seamers, Finn will get the plaudits but all 3 were fantastic, broad and jimmy deserve credit for coming back so well after bad first overs from each of them. Special mention to Finn for his last 2 overs 1 run and 1 wicket from those 2 completely stifled any chance of them rallying to a competitive target.
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Really great performance again. And with the likes of Briggs, Borthwick, Buttler, etc to come things could get quite interesting...
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Lots of changes, I'm hoping Buttler gets a good chance.
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KP doing a great job again, and Kies doing a good job.
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We need to keep the scoreboard ticking over and we should comfortably win this. There's a 150 available for Pietersen, hope he gets it.
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KP has turned a corner majorly, he looks like he did at his best with a bit more judgment.
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Kies has also been very good.
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Kiss of death there, sorry Kies.
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Still he did a really good job and hopefully has been part of a match winning partnership.
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Another hundred from KP, great stuff.
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This umpire has given a couple of LBW's that clearly aren't out and have been overturned.
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KP's back!
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KP has been absolutely outstanding, a brilliant brilliant mature hundred. There ends the debate of whether he should be in the side, absolutely no doubt. Our best batsman in my opinion. Annoying that he got out though.
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Superb from KP again. At his best he's clearly one of the best in the world, hopefully this series has got him back on top and we'll see his undoubted quality again at all levels.
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Cook is staying on for Twenty20 as well.
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KP has been absolutely outstanding, a brilliant brilliant mature hundred. There ends the debate of whether he should be in the side, absolutely no doubt. Our best batsman in my opinion. Annoying that he got out though.
I've never understood the drop KP arguement. He's a match winner. He's ironed out technical flaws and looks back to his best. His stats speak for themselves. A definate selection for me, if he wants it and retains a hunger & desire.
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KP's in form, no doubt about it. Long may it continue. Very candid interview with Athers afterwards as well, where he admitted he still can't pick Ajmal when he attacks.
When Cook was out second ball I expected a collapse, so I'm happy to be proved wrong!
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I am going to give up trying to make sense of this game I love. England thrash Australia in the Test matches and than lose the 1 days 6-1. England get humiliated in the Tests series in UAE and than win these 4-0.
One explanation is,IMO, that England did not rate Pakistan at Test level and got caught short but did rate them in 1 days and prepared properly. That prep was mental rather than physical before they got to Dubai.
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England got caught up in an overly defensive mode in the Tests, they feared the spinners too much. Somehow they got over it and worked it out for the ODI's. Cricket is as much in the mind as it is in the talent.
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KP on the move, 12 off 4.
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This KP is the one who is feared through the cricket world, anything short or wide he punishes, fantastic player to watch when he's seeing it like this.
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We need 18 from the last over. How disappointing.
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that's t20 for you, we lost our 2 big hitters just when they were threatening to win the game for us. Another 8-10balls for KP or Bopara would've seen us win comfortably.
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We bollocksed that up quite badly, Morgan really looks out of sorts at the moment.
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We bollocksed that up quite badly, Morgan really looks out of sorts at the moment.
I wonder if it's time to take him out of the firing line.
They return from the UAE next week and depart for Sri Lanka a few days later. Hardly time to rebuild shattered confidence.
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It looked risky from the start having a middle order of the out-of-form Morgan followed by two rookies, and that's indeed where the game was lost.
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On a positive note away from the football, Bairstow is showing glimpses of his undoubted talent in the T20.
And in comes Buttler.
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Two overs left to shift on from 132 for 6...
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150 will set a decent target.
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Cricket on TV
Rugby on laptop
Villa result making me drink
It's a tough Saturday
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Great work from Bairstow.
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Great work from Bairstow.
A couple of good catches too
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From Flower's comments on Morgan on Sky Sports I think he may be getting dropped from the Tests. He needs to go away and work on his technique and get some runs.
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From Flower's comments on Morgan on Sky Sports I think he may be getting dropped from the Tests. He needs to go away and work on his technique and get some runs.
I agree but wonder who they'll replace him with. I think that it's too soon for likes of Taylor, Bairstow and Buttler. Bopara is a perrennial underachiever and after him there ain't much else.
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Got to blood the youngsters in Tests at some point, what's the harm in playing Bairstow, he can't get any less runs than Morgan and the experience of playing in Sri Lanka will do him no harm at all.
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Got to blood the youngsters in Tests at some point, what's the harm in playing Bairstow, he can't get any less runs than Morgan and the experience of playing in Sri Lanka will do him no harm at all.
Very good point. I think it's unlikely but they may go with a 6 batsmen 5 bowler mix.
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Got to blood the youngsters in Tests at some point, what's the harm in playing Bairstow, he can't get any less runs than Morgan and the experience of playing in Sri Lanka will do him no harm at all.
Very good point. I think it's unlikely but they may go with a 6 batsmen 5 bowler mix.
That would enable them to play two spinners - Swann and Monty. To do this, our top order needs to be on form so they score enough runs.
My concern about Bairstow, Buttler and Taylor is that they are largely T20/one day bred and we risk replicating the Morgan problem with techniques that stand up to 20 and 50 over formats but are found wanting at test level.
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My concern about Bairstow, Buttler and Taylor is that they are largely T20/one day bred and we risk replicating the Morgan problem with techniques that stand up to 20 and 50 over formats but are found wanting at test level.
Bairstow is averaging 45 or so in first class cricket with nearly 3000 runs, I think he's worth the risk.
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My concern about Bairstow, Buttler and Taylor is that they are largely T20/one day bred and we risk replicating the Morgan problem with techniques that stand up to 20 and 50 over formats but are found wanting at test level.
Bairstow is averaging 45 or so in first class cricket with nearly 3000 runs, I think he's worth the risk.
Michael Vaughan speaks highly of him, so when you consider his average and temperament it's time he had a run in the test side.
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Painful to watch today.
Poor pitch and ordinary batting equally to blame.
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Painful to watch today.
Poor pitch and ordinary batting equally to blame.
Not seen any of the coverage but I'm following it on Cricinfo. It smacks of last match of the tour syndrome, they're thinking of the flight home.
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Great death bowling by Broad & Dernbach, they both really held their nerve
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That was a remarkable victory. I'd like to add I am not for one moment suggesting Morgan should be dropped from the One day or Twenty20 side, he definitely deserves more time at those. However he needs to go away and work away at his Test game.
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Superb death bowling by Broad and Dernbach, honestly, that game was lost.
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Morgan dropped for Tests unsurprisingly, I'm surprised Tredwell is included. I don't really rate him, but I suppose he's only back up.
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I agree with Flower that Morgan needs to work on his Test game.
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I've just read Flower's full comments on Morgan and I think he's put it across very well. He's been pretty harsh and said he needs to work out his method in Tests, but at the same time said he's still got an exciting future in the Test arena. So he's made it clear he's got to do a lot of work, but he has a future. Patel and Bopara to compete for number 6 spot as well.
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I've just read Flower's full comments on Morgan and I think he's put it across very well. He's been pretty harsh and said he needs to work out his method in Tests, but at the same time said he's still got an exciting future in the Test arena. So he's made it clear he's got to do a lot of work, but he has a future. Patel and Bopara to compete for number 6 spot as well.
The starting XI for the 1st Test will be interesting. An attack of Broad, Jimmy, Swann, Monty and probably Patel ahead of Bopara for me as he's a better bowling option. Nice to have Bresnan and Finn to call on too.
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Slighty off theme but there's been an incredible ODI in Hobart between India & Sri Lanka today
Sri Lanka batted first and scored 320-4 off 50 overs which isn't a bad total. India knocked the runs off for the loss of 3 wickets off 36.4 overs. 8.75 an over, a great performance.
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Patel is an interesting selection, I have long been critical of him but he's started to change my opinion of him. I think he was very good in the ODIs and Twenty20s, plus he's a lot more agile in the field than I though it would be. I'd definitely consider him at 6.
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Not England, but Tendulkar has just got his 100th international 100.
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Not England, but Tendulkar has just got his 100th international 100.
Fair play, I saw a picture of him coming off the field after his first and Allan Lamb was clapping him off, he has been around for donkeys!
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The next few months are going to be important for Swann, he's really dipped over the last year and now that Monty has come back with real form he may be under threat.
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He needs to stop being a media whore.
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The next few months are going to be important for Swann, he's really dipped over the last year and now that Monty has come back with real form he may be under threat.
I don't think that there has been a drop in form. He took 38 wickets from the start of the English summer against Sri Lanka last May to the end of the Pakistan series last month.
Monty is a good bowling option but Swann overs so much more with the bat and is also an excellent slip fielder. Monty in the side leaves us weaker in the field and at number 11.
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No idea what's going on in England's warm up game, on BBC is said Bopara was out for 66, but now they say he is 82 not out?!
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He was out for 66. Currently 286/5 with a minimum of just under 12 overs to go, requiring an unlikely 73 to win...
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getting a bit worried about Bell, aint scored many runs for a while
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He was about the only one not to have a decent knock. Well, that was bonkers:
SLC Dev XI 431/6d & 199/4d
England XI 272/4d & 360/6 (60.4 ov)
England XI won by 4 wickets
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That's an impressive chase down regardless of the scenario, good for a lot of batsmen to get a few runs under their belt before Monday.
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If Bopara cant bowl then I would put Patel in............
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Bloody hell I just watch the Windies put the Aussies to the sword, about 149 off last 15 overs!
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It looks like, after Russell was out, they scored 54 off 22 balls!
And Pollard's second 50 took 18 balls...
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Reasonable start by England with Sri Lanka 15-3 at one stage. The ball will do plenty 1st thing when the pitch is still wet from overnight dew. As it dries out wickets will be harder to come by. We need to take our chances and hope for a little reverse swing later in the day.
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Broad struggling is a bit of a concern.
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Good wicket to get straight after tea, we need to knock them over quickly here.
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Hope dropping Jayawardene isn't too costly.
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My view that Swann is on the wane is not being changed by this display. He's becoming pretty expensive and not overly threatening. Hopefully he'll pick up, because he hasn't been great for the last year.
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Hmm they are putting on too many runs here. We need to knock them over quickly.
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This partnership is really really irritating, Jayawardene is doing brilliantly.
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Oh Monty don't drop Jayawardene.
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I never expect anything from Monty when it comes to fielding. It's similar to what I experience when Heskey gets the ball in the penalty area.
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Another drop from Monty, this is proving costly.
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We are making a balls up of this.
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Our day just about, but missing so many chances against Jayawardene is bad. We really need to knock them over quickly in the morning.
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Being at work, I've not seen anything apart from the 30 mins before lunch and up to Anderson's excellent run out. Difficult to comment, but for the love of god why the hell is Monty so damn useless in the field?. Everyone appears to love him as he is "a character" but he winds me up something rotten.
I would be embarrassed if I was either Swann or Monty today, that Patel has taken the only wickets to fall to spinners.
You can never tell what a pitch is like until both teams bat on it, but from where I am looking, we need to bat very big 1st dig and try and get 500. 8 wkts on the first day is not to be sniffed at and we can build from here, but it should have been much better.
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We need to bat very very well, but first we need to bowl them out quick. We haven't ruined a great position, but we will have if they get another 50. As you say Dave though it's difficult to know a good score until both sides have batted.
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Yep, could and should have been better.
However, if someone offered 289/8 on the first day of a test in Sri Lanka after losing the toss, I think many hands would have been bitten off.
Jayawardene's innings has been magnificent to be fair.
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Absolutely diabolical batting again. Time's ticking for some of these players.
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We really are ballsing this up
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This is bloody horrendous. Our batting has been an absolute disgrace since the beginning of the year.
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Is this poor preparation again?
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See I was hoping the series against Pakistan was a blip, albeit a big on. However from the evidence so far they have completely taken their eye off the ball. Strauss has got to be under pressure now.
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See on the one hand I appreciate Swann's and Broad's counter attacking efforts, but wouldn't they have been better served playing for Bell like the Sri Lankans did with Jayawardene? Either way the rest of the batsmen have been an absolute embarrassment.
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Well what a bloody shocking batting display, terrible defensive shot by Bell as well. We're buried in this game and series now, short of a miracle. Time for some changes in the batting line up. Who goes?
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Lower order desperately trying to get us some runs on the board again. If Strauss doesn't approach a century in the second innings he should be dropped. We can't continue to tolerate this garbage.
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Awful batting display and poor shot selection. The SL attack is average at best and the pitch does not hold any demons.
Time for the batting line up to collectively grow a pair and step up to the plate.
We've got huge strength in depth with the ball but the batting cupboard is bare. Wholesale changes are fine but who to bring in? Bopara and Morgan have been tried and failed. There ain't much else left.
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Taylor deserves a chance. In any case Bopara did well in his last Test innings and frankly these batsmen are far too comfortable in their positions.
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Dilshan gone, but to be honest I wouldn't be confident if we bowled them out for 50.
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I think that Taylor has promise and is worth consideration. However he struggled on the Lions tour to Sri Lanka in February when he scored 201 runs in 10 innings.
I'd take a look at Joe Root and Jonny Bairstow from Yorkshire. Messrs. Vaughan & Boycott rate them very highly. Vaughan isn't as one-eyed as Sir Geoff but both are sound judges of technique and temperament.
What concerns me most is the lack of potential batsmen other than the likes of Root and Bairstow who are in their early twenties and the current squad where the youngest batsman is Cook who is 27. What is happening to our batsmen after the age of 22?
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I think Bairstow and Root are worth a shout, Morgan if he works out a Test technique as well.
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Swann comes to the party, finally. Right Sangka and Jaya are in this is critical, we need them both out quick.
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Jaya gone, big wicket. Need Sangakarra and Chandimal gone as quick as possible.
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The Sri Lankans batting sensibly now.
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Some good mockers there! Sangakkara is gone, Swann is performing. We need to go through them quickly here, and I'm still not confident in our batting even if we do.
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Some good mockers there! Sangakkara is gone, Swann is performing. We need to go through them quickly here, and I'm still not confident in our batting even if we do.
Still think Swann is on the wane? Genuine question, I think he's just as good now as he has been since he came into the side, i think the difference is we're less reliant on him now so we're not regularly seeing him destroy sides like he did a couple of years ago. The thing with him is that, as he doesn't get massive turn, he is very reliant on changing pace and bounce and some of these sub-continent pitches take so much pace out of the ball (which is ideal for people who get lots of turn like Monty) that this tactic isn't all the great. He is intelligent enough to make the flight and angle of delivery his deviation though and I guess that's what he's done this morning.
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I don't think Swann is on the wane. He is an important member of our attack, can contribute runs in the lower middle order and is a good slip catcher.
If Monty could offer something else with the bat or in the field then he may challenge Swann. Monty is a definate pick on sub-continetal pitches but elsewhere he's severely limited.
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Swann isn't on the wane, but as he hasn't really got any 'mystery balls' a lot of batsmen have got used to him, especially right-handers who can usually bat quite comfortably against him. He's got to vary his line and length a bit more to get wickets and this can sometimes lead to him conceding runs.
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Well regardless he's bowled well today and looked threatening again. They are essentially 209-5, which may well be too much for us any given our appalling batting. However if we can bat decently, I'd say we need them out for less than a lead of 270-280 to stand a chance.
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Well regardless he's bowled well today and looked threatening again. They are essentially 209-5, which may well be too much for us any given our appalling batting. However if we can bat decently, I'd say we need them out for less than a lead of 270-280 to stand a chance.
It's all about attitude once we get back in to bat. If we can keep the target below 300 (which should be the target after today) the batsmen have go with the attitude of only playing the bad balls. If we can get 100-150 with no more than a wicket down we can then start playing a few shots and putting their bowlers under pressure to keep it tight whilst trying to make a breakthrough, it's all about pushing the pressure onto the bowlers now. If they get another 150 tomorrow then we're in trouble as we'll not be able to apply that pressure if they have that many runs to play with.
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If we do lose this game, then a lot of questions need to be asked. Fundamentally we seem to be having the same problem we had in the UAE against a poorer attack. The first innings performance will be shocking regardless of whether we win, but if we do win our second innings will have had to be good so that'll mitigate the first a bit. Whatever happens there are several batsmen under significant pressure now. The bowlers keep bowling very well and then being let down by other areas of our game.
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That's the name of the player I forgot! Ben Stokes is another player who I thought looked really talented, and should be given the opportunity.
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They hid behind a lack of preparation excuse after the Pakistan series. That can't be used this time, indeed Flower said in interview that he would ensure that they were adequately prepared.
The issues seem to be as much mental as technical. They've concentrated so much on the spin issue that they've become paranoid. I wonder if the team psychologist is on tour with them? Him and Gooch, if he's there, have their work cut out!
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Well it is interesting, because KP's shot was appalling by all accounts and was against medium pace.
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As nice a guy as Strauss is I reckon he needs to go, he's not contributing with the bat and he is so bloody defensive in the field it's probably giving the opposition 50-100 extra runs an innings given how good our bowling attack is. Sri Lanka are something like 15-3 and he only has two slips and a short leg in catching positions? We should have been all over them.
Time to give Cook a go in the summer I reckon.
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We're letting them get too many here. Well to be honest 150 is probably too many, but still.
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This is pretty disasterous stuff.
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340 to win, that's about 140 more than we should have been facing with the combined ends to both Sri Lankan innings and our shocking batting. Places on the line for the batsmen here.
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Strauss is by nature a defensive captain and to be honest it's worked pretty well for him.
You can't blame him for being defensive in the second innings. His confidence in the top order (himslef included) will have been shot to pieces and he would have wanted to keep the 4th innings run-chase total down to a manageable figure.
It's a fine line between all out attack and leaking runs or a defensive field to contain and eke out wickets.
At least a couple of the batsmen really must play big innings here.
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I think we are batting a bit quickly here, there's no rush get yourselves in boys!
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Good one to win anyway, but history suggests it will be too much.
There is no doubt that the batters have let themselves down over these last two months and they probably know that themselves better than anyone. However, I do hope we don't go down the route that we took in the 80's and 90's of changing players left, right and centre every other game. We have got to the top by being patient with players and allowing them to work their way out of their bad runs of form. Whenever we discuss possible changes to the batting line up, I always ask, who is their better to come in, than what is there?. Looking around the counties and admittedly I don't see anywhere near as much as I used too, I can't see anything that immediately springs to mind?. The Bairstow's, Roots, Stokes of this world all have potential there is no doubt, but are they really going to get more runs than Strauss, Trott, Bell, KP, Cook etc? Don't see it myself at the moment.
The other thing about this game and a few others as well, we have let Sri Lanka off the hook I reckon about 4 times over two innings. When we have our foot on the throat, we need to go for the kill and not let them off. We did it in Cardiff last summer, when we bowled them out in 30 overs, albeit in completely different conditions. This has been a trait of this England team, the ability to kill an innings off and it has been lacking a little this winter.
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Cook gone, that's pretty disasterous for us.
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Stop bloody sweeping Strauss.
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Good one to win anyway, but history suggests it will be too much.
There is no doubt that the batters have let themselves down over these last two months and they probably know that themselves better than anyone. However, I do hope we don't go down the route that we took in the 80's and 90's of changing players left, right and centre every other game. We have got to the top by being patient with players and allowing them to work their way out of their bad runs of form. Whenever we discuss possible changes to the batting line up, I always ask, who is their better to come in, than what is there?. Looking around the counties and admittedly I don't see anywhere near as much as I used too, I can't see anything that immediately springs to mind?. The Bairstow's, Roots, Stokes of this world all have potential there is no doubt, but are they really going to get more runs than Strauss, Trott, Bell, KP, Cook etc? Don't see it myself at the moment.
The other thing about this game and a few others as well, we have let Sri Lanka off the hook I reckon about 4 times over two innings. When we have our foot on the throat, we need to go for the kill and not let them off. We did it in Cardiff last summer, when we bowled them out in 30 overs, albeit in completely different conditions. This has been a trait of this England team, the ability to kill an innings off and it has been lacking a little this winter.
I pretty much agree with this but I do think that the present batting line up is harder to get out of than get into. This will allow complacency to flourish.
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Need a captains innings from Strauss now. These 2 are both good defensive players who should be able to shut up shop and stay in.
We have over 2 days, if we're still in there with wickets in hand this time tomorrow it's ours for the taking, just need to be sensible and play each ball on it's merits. The required rate from here is about 1.5 per over (given 90 overs each day and best part of 30 to come today) so better to go very defensive in this session. end the day on 80-90 but with 9 wickets intact and we're in a good spot, repeat that tomorrow morning and it becomes a great platform.
looking at the scoring rate since Cook got out I think the team agree with me as well.
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Strauss gone, he's got to be getting towards the brink now. We are pretty much buried.
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He is not learning at all, which is the most worrying thing. He consistently gets in and then plays a terrible premeditated shot and gets out.
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I will be amazed if KP and Trott are still in at the end of the day. The top order is has been really really poor all winter.
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73 for 2, chasing 340. There's so much time, the pitch isn't offering any nasty surprises and the bowling is ok, not great. If we really are the best test team in the world, we should win this...
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England should win this on this pitch, but it's about time our batsmen did the job.
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KP please just bat responsibly.
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This is about as twitchy a performance as you can get but if these 2 can see us to close and then kick on in the morning we're still in with a chance, another wicket today and we're as good as out of it I think.
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Well we've made it to the close with another 229 to get. That is doable if someone gets a century, these two need to get a good start tomorrow. KP has been lucky, but he's still there so that's all you can ask.
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When I used to play cricket, a looooooong time ago, the best way we approached chases was to break it down. We have to score 229 runs in the day tomorrow. So they should be looking at sensible batting and aiming to score 75 in the morning and 75 in the afternoon with the rest in the evening.
There is no doubt that Sri Lanka are favourites and would be expecting to win. I would expect England to win if we were in their shoes, but if these two can bat a good deal tomorrow morning and get up to say 170, then who knows?.
Hopefully Belly has now found some form and Prior, Patel, Broad and Swann can contribute too. It's definitely "do-able", but probably unlikely.
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In fairness they don't have to do it all tomorrow, there's two days left. They just need to treat each delivery on its merits.
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The game will end one way or the other tomorrow. If we bat all day for 90 overs, we will win. In fact, it wouldn't take us 90 overs I wouldn't imagine to score 229.
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I agree, but I'm just trying to say England are under no time pressure at all so they can afford to just treat every ball individually. I think we'll massively struggle to do it though, and expect Sri Lanka to win although I hope I'm wrong.
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I'd say honours even at this point. the first session tomorrow is absolutely key. If the target gets to 150 without another wicket (i.e. we bat out the session) then we're in control, if they get a wicket or 2 then the whole game changes.
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It might have been a slightly harsh decision, but Bell should never ever been playing that sweep.
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Sri Lanka still big favourites, but we do have a chance as long as we don't lose more than a wicket in this session.
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I really don't like the sweep shot, I wish we'd just play straight.
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Had we not batted so badly in the first innings, we'd be in a very good position now.
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Two Test series are stupid, an absolute minimum of three is required and personally I think it should be at least four.
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Had we not batted so badly in the first innings, we'd be in a very good position now.
The 87 runs added for the last 2 wickets could be the difference. If we'd have got those wickets sooner, we'd be chasing 60-odd runs to win by now rather than 130 +
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Brilliant hundred Trotty, now finish the job and be there at the end when we get the 340 required.
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Calm down Prior, he's looking edgy.
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Fuck too late. I thought he was doing that. We are in trouble now.
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Right Samit through all that derision I've given you before in my face and see England home.
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Patel you fucking tit, now we are in massive trouble.
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Trott gone, game over. Fuck.
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Trott showed how to play, but how many of our batsmen let us down. Strauss, KP, Bell and Patel. That's 4 of the top 7.
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Stop hitting it in the air Broad.
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Irresponsible Swann, shocking given the situation.
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Aside from Trott and Cook normally our batsmen seem to mentally fragile and unable to dig in. Patel has done himself no favours at all with his 'batting' performances in this game.
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Trott showed how to play, but how many of our batsmen let us down. Strauss, KP, Bell and Patel. That's 4 of the top 7.
Brilliant effort this innings, I believe it's the highest fourth innings score at Galle already.
We haven't lost this game today, we have lost it in the first innings when we batted poorly and also three or four times in both Sri Lankan innings, when we haven't finished them off when we had them in bother.
It's always disappointing when people are out and we can all say bad shot etc etc, but very often it's the right shot, just poor execution. Bell's shot this morning being the perfect example, there wasn't anyone behind square on the leg side, so there were runs to be had. Just played the shot poorly unfortunately.
If we don't win in Colombo next week then we will lose our number 1 ranking. On this winters efforts, you can't really say we deserve to be at the top anymore I guess.
Anyway, come on Broady. Let's have a quickfire 50 and make it interesting !!!
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4 defeats in a row is embarrassing. As a Test side this winter we've consistently let down by at least 4/5 of the top 6 every innings. Completely unacceptable.
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Be a nice turnaround for Monty to hang in for a while. He's made a bit of the difference in this test that's for sure!
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Well that is a hell of a collapse.
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Trott and to an extent Prior can take credit from that innings. The rest were dreadful overall.
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As already said, those last wicket stands have hit us hard. Beefy was talking about the bowlers' pitching towards tailenders, compared to openers and how we only try to bounce them out. A bit more thinking required. Ah well, it was fun being best team in the world...
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The last 5 wickets put on 12 runs. Their last stand was 50+
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Patel hasn't really done anything to warrant his place. I'd switch his for Bresnan.
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FFS
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Trott and to an extent Prior can take credit from that innings. The rest were dreadful overall.
I think you are being a tad harsh Paul if I'm honest. As i said above, we haven't lost it in this innings. To score over 250 in the 4th innings on that pitch was good. We were too far behind the game from the first innings to make it back up though.
Changes for the next game?.
I'd bring Bresnan in but can't make up my mind whether it would be for Monty or Patel.
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FFS
Yep. It was a shocking, shocking collapse. I'm not sure what Patel offers, he got a couple of wickets but didn't bowl many overs and his batting was awful.
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I think Stokes, Bairstow and Taylor to be looked at for the batting line up. The likes of Strauss, KP, Bell are not under enough pressure. I know the latter two did well last year, but this is now. They need someone in to freshen it up.
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I think Stokes, Bairstow and Taylor to be looked at for the batting line up. The likes of Strauss, KP, Bell are not under enough pressure. I know the latter two did well last year, but this is now. They need someone in to freshen it up.
Strauss is the real worry for me, he hasn't looked comfortable opening for a while now.
I'm also still unconvinced we can afford to play Monty regularly. his 2 drops of Jayawardene in the first innings are just as important as anything the batsmen did wrong. A big part of our rise to the top of the rankings was down to our excellence in the field, Monty is a very weak link in this regard.
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I think Monty is only really an option if we are on the sub continent or Swann is injured. We don't have anyone else who can be qualified as a front line spinner.
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I'm also still unconvinced we can afford to play Monty regularly. his 2 drops of Jayawardene in the first innings are just as important as anything the batsmen did wrong. A big part of our rise to the top of the rankings was down to our excellence in the field, Monty is a very weak link in this regard.
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He's out there now in the squad, but I wouldn't personally have him anywhere near it. It's just plain embarrassing his ineptitude with both his batting and fielding. I except he had a decent tour of UAE, but I'm not a massive fan of his bowling either.
These days, cricketers have to be able to do two out of the three disciplines well to justify there place in the team. If they only do one, then they have to be a hell of a player to justify being in there.
Danny Briggs may well be the next England spinner, but again he is poor with the bat. However, look how Anderson has improved with a lot of hard work and application. Normally you can guarantee a score of over 10 from him, which is perfectly acceptable for a 10 or 11. Prospective test bowlers need to take a good look at him and follow his example.
In terms of the batters, I would suggest that Strauss is under the most pressure, but I don't see him being dropped before India next winter. I think that Boycott has got it right, they will all perform well this summer at home v Windies and Saffas, but we will have the same issues after that.
They are all good players, you don't average between 40 and 50 without having something. They were all in form last summer, with the exception of Strauss and by and large have all had sticky winters together. I don't think we can make wholesale changes in the batting department though.
Spoken like a true ex batsman haven't I ??. If you're struggling for runs, change the bowling attack :-)
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Monty is the weak link, we're considerably weakened as a test side with him in it. I'd also rather see Bresnan in the side ahead of Patel.
Strauss hasn't scored a test century since the 2nd innings of the 1st Ashes test in Oz. He's been in a poor run of form before and was dropped. He came back and came good. I think he will again.
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panasar is what hutton is to villa a complete waste of time
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I think rounding on Panesar is a bit harsh, yes those catches were poor I accept that. However the issue is the batting not the bowling clearly.
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I think rounding on Panesar is a bit harsh, yes those catches were poor I accept that. However the issue is the batting not the bowling clearly.
Yes, our efforts in the first innings were poor and we all accept that. However, 15/3 and 191/7 in the first innings and they were allowed to get 318?. Second innings 127/8 and they get 214?. That's 129 for the last three wickets in the first innings and 87 for the last two in the 2nd innings.
As I mentioned earlier, one of the traits of this England team in recent times has been to nail the opposition when they have them down. In these conditions, the spinners had to play a role in cleaning up the innings. Neither of the front line spinners took a wicket in the first dig and Swanny did excellently in the 2nd one.
So yes, the main problem is the batting unit. But lets not forget that neither Broad or Panesar contributed much with the ball in this game either?
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Since Duncan Fletcher was coach the test squad has been built around players being strong in at least 2 of the disciplines, batting, bowling and fielding. Swann and Anderson are excellent bowlers and since Collingwood retired, our best slip fielders. Even Trott who was an average fielder for the Bears has worked on his fielding and is now reliable. Monty is one dimensional and a potential liability in the field.
I'm not blaming Monty for the result, you live as a team, you fail as a team. However he is the weak link in the chain and will always be so.
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Indeed, Broad and Panesar haven't done much with the ball, which is always going to happen with a bowler, it's in those matches where they need to bring something else to the party. Broad scored a few important runs in the first innings (and always look capable of doing that) and is always dependable in the field, Monty is a waste of a spot if he isn't taking wickets. That's why people will round on him and it's why he got dropped originally.
In the right conditions (like in dubai) you play him and accept the poor batting and fielding because he'll get you 7-8 wickets in the match and go at less than 2 an over as well. Unfortunately he's never going to get beyond being the guy we bring in on twirly wickets as the 2nd spinner.
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I think essence the last two posts are right, in the right conditions Monty is worth his place. However if it's not the right conditions the rest of his game doesn't warrant his place.
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Monty is not a world class spinner. Never has been never will be however he is the best bowler that England have in a left arm wrist spinner. He should only ever play if the pitch and coditions are right for him.
England's down fall here and in the Emirates was the sweep shot regularly used by batters against spin. This is not a test match shot. Sweep is a limited over method. High risk but delivers runs. NO NEED TO PLAY THIS WHEN YOU HAVE 2 DAYS TO GET 200 Mr Flower. Play proper cricket.
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Broad out (calf injury) so Bresnan or Finn?
Finn for me, I just think he's got the technique to get a little bit of something out of even the flattest pitches.
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England's down fall here and in the Emirates was the sweep shot regularly used by batters against spin. This is not a test match shot. Sweep is a limited over method. High risk but delivers runs. NO NEED TO PLAY THIS WHEN YOU HAVE 2 DAYS TO GET 200 Mr Flower. Play proper cricket.
The sweep shot is not a test shot?. Sorry, but not having that at all. It's as much as a bona fida shot as the ariel cover drive that Patel got out to yesterday. As I mentioned earlier, the sweep Bell got out to was a perfectly acceptable choice of shot yesterday, with no men behind square on the leg side. What was wrong was the EXECUTION of it. That's where the problem is, not the shot.
Honestly, reading some of the former players going on about this, you would think they had never made a mistake in their careers and as usual in this country, we can't wait to put the boot in, when we go through a sticky patch.
I have said on this thread before that we have had a disappointing winter and there is no getting away from it. But this is the first blip we have had in over 2 years. Let's give the boys a little bit of backing, otherwise we will end up back in 1989 and using 30 players in a series again. Bowlers will then be afraid of bowling a bad spell for fear of being dropped and batsmen will worry about every shot they play, in case they get out.
I guess I better put my tin hat on now :-)
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Broad out (calf injury) so Bresnan or Finn?
Finn for me, I just think he's got the technique to get a little bit of something out of even the flattest pitches.
Both and leave Patel out of the team that played the first test.
Strauss, Cook, Trott, KP, Bell, Prior, Bresnan, Swann, Anderson, Finn, Panesar.
I guess with that line up we are exposed a bit batting wise from 9, 10, Jack but hopefully if we had them 7 down for not many, we would have the bowlers and energy to finish them off and not allow the 100 plus for the last 3 wkts of the first innings.
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Broad out (calf injury) so Bresnan or Finn?
Finn for me, I just think he's got the technique to get a little bit of something out of even the flattest pitches.
Both and leave Patel out of the team that played the first test.
Strauss, Cook, Trott, KP, Bell, Prior, Bresnan, Swann, Anderson, Finn, Panesar.
I guess with that line up we are exposed a bit batting wise from 9, 10, Jack but hopefully if we had them 7 down for not many, we would have the bowlers and energy to finish them off and not allow the 100 plus for the last 3 wkts of the first innings.
I'd go with that, I think we need the extra seamer to blow away the tail. Patel didn't offer a great deal in that Test.
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I think we missed the 3rd seamer at times during the test. I'd go with Bresnan rather than Finn, to firm up the lower order if anything & then bring Finn in for the summer tests.
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From world beaters to panel beaters within 6 months - the typical cycle of English sport continues.
I feel sorry for the bowling department who have toiled away both in Galle and the UAE on slow tracks and hot days. Our bowling attack is as good as we've ever had, no problems there.
So on to the real problem, the mental state of the top order. Right now, the top 5 are the best batsmen in the country, I still believe that. But Straussy's shot in the 2nd innings told a tale of a batting unit that is uncertain mentally (he urgently needs runs now). They desperately need some County Cricket and plenty of it to get back into the right habits and regain confidence that only time in the middkle can give them.
Sri Lanka strikes me as probably the worst place to play if you're technique is shaky, you can let alot of balls go in Oz or SA, not so in Sri Lanka where spin and lack of bounce means you have to play at much more. Also, with the top 4 all being back foot players, sub continent touring really doesn't suit them, they all like pace on the ball so they can take it on the up - they'll be not much of that in Columbo, thats one reason why they get found out so badly on these tours.
So whatever the ICC rankings say, unfortunatley we aren't the best side in the world after all. You don't lose 4 on the spin if you are in the manner that we have. SA are, they have great balance, an excellent pace attack and in Jacques Kallis the best all round Cricketer to have played the game. Followed by us, Australia and Pakistan. India will need to rebuild as are Sri Lanka. I just hope we can avoid a defeat in Columbo and start afresh again.
Like I said, the typical English cycle.
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Reasonable start to this test so far and certainly our best performance with the bat of the winter. I hope that they build on it on day 3 and that I get to watch some coverage on Friday on a day off!
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Sri Lanka have absolutely nothing with the ball if it's not turning. They've not got anything out of the pitch for the spinners so far so just needed our batsmen to play sensibly to get to this position. If the pitch plays like this tomorrow and they don't make a major change we should be looking at well over 400 here.
I reckon keep it sensible until lunch tomorrow and have the current pair see us to 220-230 then come out after lunch and try to pile on a few runs. I'd want 5 sessions to bowl them out and have a bit of leeway in case we need to come back out so I'd like 400 by the end of tomorrow and then if we've got wickets in hand go all out to break 500 before lunch on thursday. We really need to not give them the chance to stick in and play for the draw so we need enough time to be certain we can bowl them out.
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We have shown that if you're sensible on subcontinent pitches, then you can build scores. We need to go from here and bat them out of the match. It's vital when KP gets in that he bats sensibly. It's very important we win this game.
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KP bat sensibly? Perish the thought!
Three sixes already, if he goes defensive against spin he gets out, he's doing it the only way he knows.
England lead.
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This is a brilliant innings from KP, it could accelerate us into a position to win this game.
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I think he scpred about 50 runs in the time it took me to get from Northfield to town to come into work.
Well batted sir and we should win from this position
Bell gone for 18 to complete a poor winter and cue the calls for him to be dropped I guess. As my mate has just said, it would be amazing if people were calling for the head of a batsman who averages 46 point something. Seems to be the way though !!
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Roshan Abeysinghe must hate commentating with Sir Geoffrey. He can hardly get a word in.
Its Aggers and Victor on at the moment. They're my favourite duo these days
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Much debate on the Cricinfo text commentary about KP's switch hitting. I've not seen it as I'm stuck ast work. Can anyone shed any light on what has gone on during this innings?
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Basically Dilshan refused to bowl at KP when he was switching his hands.
Was all a psychology thing, KP just got totally into his head and Dilshan had a sulk.
Basically as they're explaining things it's all about timing, if Dilshan sees him move before he's in his delivery stride he can pull out and Pietersen then gets warned for wasting time. If Dilshan is in his delivery stride and pulls out he gets punished instead.
The whole thing will go on for a long time I think.
Aside from that, this has been as good a batting performance as anything I've ever seen from KP, has looked like he's hitting a beachball with a tennis racket.
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I think the umpire is wrong to warn KP according to the latest from the ICC rule-setters. They have stated that the switch hit is legitimate and as it is such a risky shot for a batsman to try and gives the bowler every chance to get him out then the risk / reward balance is fine and as it is an exciting shot it should be allowed.
Bowlers do not have to tell the batsman what sort of delivery they are going to bowl, surely a seamer changing his grip on the ball and throwing down a leg-break is the same as a batsman changing his grip on the bat to hit the ball unorthodoxily?
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151 and out, great innings KP.
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It's a shame we couldn't play like this for the rest of the winter.
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Great knock from KP. Class is permanent and all that.
Shouldn't have been warned. He was set when the delivery was made, what he does after that his up to him...
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That 151 is up there with the all-time greatest performances. It's a dog of a pitch that every other player has struggled to get a strike rate over 50%, to swagger out and smack it all the pitch like that takes special talent. I'd go so far as to say no other batsman in the world currently could've done that (Tendulkar at his best could've but he's not that player anymore).
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Yes well I think that answers all questions on KP's place in the side, there is noone else who can do that.
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Well done KP
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The ball is starting to reverse. An important session coming up for England. We could win this today.
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We are struggling here.
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Oh FFS here we go again!
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Excellent batting by KP and a 10-fer in the match for Swann to win the test
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Easy win, number one Test team going into the summer.
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Another great performance form KP in the 2nd innings. The last over showed everything you need to know about the guy. We'd clearly won the game by then but he wanted to do it in style, if he'd got out people would've given him a lot of grief but in that situation playing safety first is just as dangerous, as we saw in the previous test.
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Great stuff from KP and long may it continue. Good to win the last Test and hope lessons have been learned. The number 6 position is totally open for me, and I'd be inclined to give Bairstow a chance.
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Drop Bell, let him play for The Bears.
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Is anyone going to any of the one day games in the summer? Me, my brothers and a few mates are thinking of going to the day nighter at edgbaston on 4th july against the aussie. Should be a great game.
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Is anyone going to any of the one day games in the summer? Me, my brothers and a few mates are thinking of going to the day nighter at edgbaston on 4th july against the aussie. Should be a great game.
Can highly recommend it..great day out.
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Is anyone going to any of the one day games in the summer? Me, my brothers and a few mates are thinking of going to the day nighter at edgbaston on 4th july against the aussie. Should be a great game.
I've just managed to get 4 tickets for the West Indies Test in June. Im serving in the RAF and managed to grab them from 'Tickets For Troops'. So if you or you know someone who is in the Forces, get onboard for a free day out at Edgbaston! they even have the Saturday available!
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Watching the IPL and KP is bowling the second over.
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Watching the IPL and KP is bowling the second over.
How many runs did he get in the end? Was watching some of it on my lunch break and he hit a few fours and a six. cant believe he is bowling though
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Watching the IPL and KP is bowling the second over.
How many runs did he get in the end? Was watching some of it on my lunch break and he hit a few fours and a six. cant believe he is bowling though
He got 103 not out off 64 balls with 6 x 4 and 9 x 6. Quite an innings.
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Glad he's getting in good form, we'll need him to fire this summer and when we defend the Twenty20 World cup.
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It was a quite phenomenal innings, some of the shots he played were astonishing.
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It was a quite phenomenal innings, some of the shots he played were astonishing.
78 in boundaries off 15 balls, meant that he scored 25 0ff 49 balls. Piss poor really (winky thing)
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Nick Compton making an early claim to be included in the test squad v Windies.............
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Who bats alongside Prior at 6/7 is still very much up for grabs.
Highly unlikely we'll need 5 bowlers in early season English conditions.
Hopefully Morgan can find some form as he has the ability to be a match winner for years to come.
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James Taylor has got a ton for the England Lions.
Should Bell worried? Morgan definitely will be.
Taylor can bowl a bit as well.
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Part of me hopes Bell plays well enough to ensure he gets in the England team, part of me thinks sod it, they'll beat the Windies anyway, let him help the Bears win the title!
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Bairstow in the squad for the 1st test which starts on Wednesday.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-west-indies-2012/content/current/story/564669.html
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After the thing with his Dad, I'm pleased for Bairstow. Maybe a bit soon for debut though? I hope they play Finn - the bad side of my character would like to see him bounce a few 90 mph balls around their ears in pure revenge.
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That's interesting, looking at the squad he's definitely going to play. I'm glad to see him get a chance, it's a little harsh on Taylor though.
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That's interesting, looking at the squad he's definitely going to play. I'm glad to see him get a chance, it's a little harsh on Taylor though.
if you base the selection around the performance of Taylor and Bairstow in the T20's that they've each played then you have to say that Taylor hasn't yet seized his opportunity whereas Bairstow has. Taylor's innings for the Lions yesterday won't have done his cause any harm at all though.
I like the look of Bairstow, he's a fighter.
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Great win over the Windies by the Lions by 10 wickets. 197/0 with Joe Root 115 off 143 balls. He's one to watch too, a future opener in the test side.
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Woakes back for the Bears today.
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First test starts today. Weather permitting, I expect England to comfortably win the series.
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First test starts today. Weather permitting, I expect England to comfortably win the series.
England should win, the summer starts here for me !
come on the Villa, Bears and England
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Bowling first which is good, I would have gone with Finn over Bresnan. However overall I'm happy with the team, and we should have too much for the Windies(who are a much improving side).
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Interesting they've picked Shannon Gabriel, he is meant to be quick.
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Brilliant bowling from Anderson. Outwinger then inswinger, superb.
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Windies are doing pretty well here.
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Definitely Windies morning there.
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That's a hell of blow for the Windies, losing Bravo.
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If they can get Chanderpaul out we are laughing
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We're struggling a bit here.
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Going through them now.
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Nine down at the close and it's England's day.
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Well, not a bad start, wrapped it up off the first ball of the day, Broad getting his 7th. Could be an interesting Test, this one
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Good morning, hopefully Strauss will go on.
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Good morning to you as well Paul, although it's 1:45.
Oh, I see, yes, doing okay at the moment.
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Good morning to you as well Paul, although it's 1:45.
Oh, I see, yes, doing okay at the moment.
What can I say, I don't do before midday! Trott is lucky there.
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Trott I think just edged one and it was kind of a half hearted appeal and not given.
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Strange for them not to appeal that a bit more. Trott knew he'd nicked it as well. In the good old days he'd have walked!
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Congrats Straussy.
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KP is on the move.
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He's gone annoyingly.
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Windies morning.
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Rest of the day to England though, except for the last hour or so.
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We are potentially getting into trouble here.
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Samuels gone, we needed that.
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These are dreadful conditions for a team from West Indies to endure. Cold and wet. However it's the same for all touring teams when they go and play in unfamiliar conditions else where.
I think next time Aussies come here they should be made to play at least two tests in the month of May.
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Strauss already gone.
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Now Trott gone in the first half hour. We really don't need to lose any more before lunch. If we do manage that, with improving conditions, we could swing it back in our favour. A long way to go though.
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Pietersen is key now, if he's still in at lunch England won't be far away.
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Now Trott gone in the first half hour. We really don't need to lose any more before lunch. If we do manage that, with improving conditions, we could swing it back in our favour. A long way to go though.
Oh dear, what I have I done
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We are in trouble now, the demons of the winter are returning. There is no excuse not to chase down this total on this pitch with our batting line up.
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Situation recovered by Cook and Bell, well done lads. We'll win now.
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Good Test match that, at least The Windies are showing some fight, they are nowhere near the side that used to blow everyone away of course but Test cricket needs a good West Indies side.
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It was a good Test match, relieved we won and we need to find our clinical edge again. However I'm glad this also backs up my view that the Windies are beginning the long road back to being a decent side.
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That Gabriel looks a good bowler, very fast and if he can get a bit more control he'll be lethal up at Trent Bridge which is always good for fast bowling, ask Jimmy Anderson!
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Yes it should be an interesting game up there. I don't think we're at the top of our game yet and I would consider Finn for Bres in the next Test.
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4 Tests in India? Bloody hell it's about time that Tests got more of a priority. Good stuff.
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And off we go again.
Windies 42-3, Anderson having a great first hour, two wickets and a great catch.
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It's a really good start, if we could get rid of Shiv quickly that'd be nice.
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Every test that goes by our attack gets better and better. At times they are a joy to watch.
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If only Jimmy could field in the slips of his own bowling, Chanderpaul would be gone.
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Windies have really fought back here.
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Superb effort from Samuels and Sammy. Now lets knock them over quickly tomorrow.
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Superb effort from Samuels and Sammy. Now lets knock them over quickly tomorrow.
It was a great effort.
However, England definitely seem to have lost the killer instinct with the ball. It was evident in the second innings at Lords and in fairness it was a very poor last session from the bowlers, despite Samuels and Sammys performance.
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Yeah I don't think Anderson and Broad were particularly well backed up by Bresnan or Swann really. I'd have Finn in for Bresnan, because I don't really think Bresnan offers enough if you only have 4 bowlers.
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Yeah I don't think Anderson and Broad were particularly well backed up by Bresnan or Swann really. I'd have Finn in for Bresnan, because I don't really think Bresnan offers enough if you only have 4 bowlers.
I agree, Bresnan is a fine cricketer, but Finn is the better bowler.
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Yeah I don't think Anderson and Broad were particularly well backed up by Bresnan or Swann really. I'd have Finn in for Bresnan, because I don't really think Bresnan offers enough if you only have 4 bowlers.
I agree, Bresnan is a fine cricketer, but Finn is the better bowler.
Bresnan offers more with the bat though which tips things in his favour.
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See how they go this morning.
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I'm glad Sammy fluked through the 90s there, well played. Now get out along with Samuels!
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Sammy gone finally. Well played.
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Good take KEV!
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Good Ton Sammy. Now we need a quick 3 wickets.
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Samuels gone now, well played as well.
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Now Samuels gone for 117. Well played
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Our slip fielding has got a bit sloppy of late.
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Not that time.
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Nope, Bres is doing well to clean up here.
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4 so far.
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370 all out
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Cook gone, poor.
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Cook gone for 1
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No ball
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Correction no ball.
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Come back Cook
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Shame.
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123-2 Trott goes.
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142-2 Strauss gets his half century
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Avoid the new stand at Trent bridge. It looks nice but have been freezing my ass off since midday. May get some sun on me in about 15 minutes.
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Youv'e seen a good few runs scored today though rutski. And a few wickets.
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Good batting lads, KP like this is great and well played Straussy.
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I do like Trent Bridge, almost as good as Edgbaston but a lovely cricket ground.
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i concur with last post. it is a reall nice cricket ground, very sympathetically modernised!
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Nice day in prospect. Off down the allotment with my little radio. Hoping for a good days play.
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We're making a bit of a fuck up of this.
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We're making a bit of a fuck up of this.
Yep. Unless the standard of performance considerably improves, we won't have much hope of beating South Africa.
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Yeah we really haven't been up to much so far this summer on the whole.
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We're making a bit of a fuck up of this.
[/quoteWe're making a bit of a fuck up of this.
Yep. Unless the standard of performance considerably improves, we won't have much hope of beating South Africa.
Seems they heard you
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Bresnan ripping through the order.
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Look at the player ratings, we're a team built around a fantastic bowling attack (3 of the top 5 in the world and Bresnan will be much higher within the next year, he's getting settled in the side now).
With the bat we look for 2 good partnerships, first innings here for example, we had a great one between Strauss and KP and then an important one between Bresnan and Broad to give us a lead.
The only reason this match is in the balance is because our bowling went cold on the evening session of day 1, which meant they put at least 100 more on the board than they should've, from the position they were in they'd have been happy with 250.
The bowlers have more than made up for it with a fantastic evening session today.
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The WI will have to go a lot tomorrow to carry this through to day 5. Can't see it.
They are in effect 3-6.
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Great come back and Bres has responded to my criticism.
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We're making a bit of a fuck up of this.
Yep. Unless the standard of performance considerably improves, we won't have much hope of beating South Africa.
The Windies, although an improving side are only an apetiser. The Saffers are what this summer is all about and the players will be subconsciously easing themselves into the international summer. When is counts such as in recent Ashes series, the players step up to the plate.
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Windies 165 all out so that's a lead of 107.
Marlon Samuels has been immense for them, without his contribution thus far they'd have lost yesterday.
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Got to say Samuels is finally starting to play to his talent. He's having a brilliant tour and if he keeps this up he could be a great batsman in the Windies middle order for a number of years. He's only 31, he could realistically play for another 6 or 7 years.
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Fabulous performance by Bresnan. 13 tests and 13 wins.
At the moment his batting and bowling average is better than Flintoff and Botham, albeit after 13 tests. He's solid but unspectacular. As a bowler I liken him to Matthew Hoggard who never let England down. The kind of unsung hero that you don't notice when he's in the side but leaves a hole when he's missing. With Bresnan at 8, Broad bats at 9. How many test sides have a number 9 with a test best score of 169?
We can't drop him even for a wonderful bowler as Finn. Ultimately it's a nice problem to have and it will be a frequent one given the depth of our bowling resource.
Our bowling strength will allow bowlers to be rested on rotation which has to be a good thing.
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There's a chance one of Broad or Anderson could be rested for the last test now the series has been won, Finn could get a rare outing.
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Just announced on SSN that KP has quit all forms of Limited Overs international cricket. Amazed by that to be honest, his power in twenty20 and One Dayers will be hugely missed.
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The ECB don't seem too happy!
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That's mental, I don't get it at all with the Twenty20 World Cup coming up.
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Frees him up for the IPL and other limited over tournaments, test comittments permitting.
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I'd rather he quit one day than Test, but I'm still a bit gutted.
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He only wanted to quit ODIs but the, in my opinion ludicrous, selection criteria that the ECB set out says that if you rule yourself out of one form of one-day cricket you automatically rule yourself out of both.
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Durham instead of Edgbaston for 2013 Ashes, shocking.
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Durham instead of Edgbaston for 2013 Ashes, shocking.
That was announced late last year. Still disappointing though.
I'm going to try and get tickets for days 4 and 5 at the Oval so I can hopefully see the urn presented following another successful Ashes campaign.
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After the South African tests I would say thanks KP, you go and play 20/20
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Durham instead of Edgbaston for 2013 Ashes, shocking.
In September?
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At Edgbaston today. Very much doubt if we will get any cricket but there is some hope. Anyone else there?
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Had to work all this weekend so not going to this one at all....unless there is play on Monday which is looking increasingly likely at the moment.
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In the new stand. Very impressive however very wet at the moment. Even the toss has been delayed due to rain.
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Do we know whether it was Onions or Finn who got the nod in the end - BBC didn't mention it!
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Had to work all this weekend so not going to this one at all....unless there is play on Monday which is looking increasingly likely at the moment.
i have club cricket commitments all weekend so i would also try and get up monday if possible!
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Do we know whether it was Onions or Finn who got the nod in the end - BBC didn't mention it!
No decision made yet. As they didn't get to toss up they don't have to confirm the lineups.
As the forecast for tomorrow is equally as grim they could rest Broad and Jimmy and play Finn and Onions in what could be a 3 day test match.
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I quite enjoyed it today, although there was no live cricket. SSN showed a couple of tests from 2000 and the ODI from the 2007 WC, all v Windies. In the second test, Nick Knight scored 2 off something like 60 balls, in over an hour! Maybe KP was right about him... Hopefully, we'll get some more modern play tomorrow.
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Once again off to Edgbaston today. I feel it is my duty to support the Bears when they stage a test match. Hoping to see some cricket as well!
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Just watching the forecasts now to see if it's worth going down Monday (my only day off). Probably will.
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Had an email from the Bears last night.
Tickets for today are £63, Sunday £43. Buy a Sunday ticket and get Monday free. Under 16's are £15 both days.
They have a print at home option too which I've used before when booking last minute tickets and it saves queuing at the ticket office.
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Play starts on time, that must have been some fantastic work from the groundsmen. I was told you could have done the front crawl across the outfield yesterday afternoon!
England win toss and unsurprisingly will bowl.
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Windies have done well so far.
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Bell is having a nightmare in the slips, two very comfortable chances dropped.
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Great delivery from Bres to get Fudadin out, but weird commentary I thought it was a replay as there was no reaction.
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Good day at Edgbaston. Good atmosphere despite the match being a bit of a non event. I thought England were lethargic and West Indies were as adequate as they can be these days. England were a bowler short. Lot of WI batsmen got into good scores but failed to take full advantage. England will be in trouble against South Africa if they had to rely on today's attacking strength but better bowlers will be available.
Very impressive knock from Samuels but he should have gone on to get a 100 but like WI cricket not quite up to it.
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Brilliant effort from Best, but our bowling has been off today. We're going to miss KP in one day cricket, batting beautifully.
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Bairstow failed again.
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I see the Windies saved the Best for last.
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Yes, Bairstow might have blown his chances of a start against South Africa.
We have now proved as well that we need at least one of Anderson or Broad, can't leave out both.
Going to pop down tomorrow, nothing riding on the game and almost certainly a draw but it's my day off and it's cricket!
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Yes, Bairstow might have blown his chances of a start against South Africa.
We have now proved as well that we need at least one of Anderson or Broad, can't leave out both.
Going to pop down tomorrow, nothing riding on the game and almost certainly a draw but it's my day off and it's cricket!
Yes we lack ruthlessness without Broad and Anderson, Best should never have got that score. I think resting them also sent out the wrong message to the team and we've been really below par in this game. Bairstow needs to start moving his feet, he gets stuck too often.
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Allen Stanford 110 not out.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18450893
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Allen Stanford 110 not out.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18450893
Is it going to the third umpire?
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Great innings from Bell.
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Nice easy win, very good all round performance.
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Great innings from Bell.
The pictures of his chin on Friday were awful. He took a hell of a hit in the nets. It was a great innings made more so by the various broken bits of chin that he suffered.
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Great innings from Bell.
Well done Belly
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Chris Gayle is currently dismantling Tim Bresnan.
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The one on to the roof was awesome.
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Gayle going was a bit of a relief.
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I've always rated Dwayne Bravo as an all round cricketer, and he should be in their Test side.
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I really fucking hate that secret holiday advert.
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I really fucking hate that secret holiday advert.
She would get it though.
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I really fucking hate that secret holiday advert.
She would get it though.
Well, obviously.
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Goode starts and Waldrom is rewarded for his display when he came on last week and most importantly Botha dropped. Bold decisions from Lancaster again, shows he's not afraid to change the team.
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Also happy to see Corbiseiro in for Marler, who I think has struggled a bit.
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I thought alzheimers had struck me for a moment here...
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Whoops! wrong thread.
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great game yesterday, the windies looked unbeatable but alex hales scored the highest individual 20/20 score by an englishman in an international but heartbreakingly was out for 99. not the purest form of the game but some big hitting going on!
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Morgan back to his best, looks technically much better as well. Great knock.
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Great catch Kies, Warner gone.
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Marvellous win.
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Marvellous win.
Here here
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Phenomenal catch by Kies, brilliant.
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Bowling pretty poorly here, lots of wide stuff particularly Broad and Bresnan.
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Well this is about as comprehensive a hammering as possible. Brilliant.
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What did you make of the review decision Paul iro Morgan.........
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What did you make of the review decision Paul iro Morgan.........
Hmm see I'm in two minds, because I think Morgan definitely thought he hit it or he wouldn't have reviewed it. However purely on evidence, I think he was lucky a white spot appeared where it did.
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What did you make of the review decision Paul iro Morgan.........
Hmm see I'm in two minds, because I think Morgan definitely thought he hit it or he wouldn't have reviewed it. However purely on evidence, I think he was lucky a white spot appeared where it did.
But there were 2 marks on his bat though.......
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What did you make of the review decision Paul iro Morgan.........
Hmm see I'm in two minds, because I think Morgan definitely thought he hit it or he wouldn't have reviewed it. However purely on evidence, I think he was lucky a white spot appeared where it did.
But there were 2 marks on his bat though.......
Yeah which makes me think it was the label on his bat, rather than the ball hitting the ball.
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What did you make of the review decision Paul iro Morgan.........
Hmm see I'm in two minds, because I think Morgan definitely thought he hit it or he wouldn't have reviewed it. However purely on evidence, I think he was lucky a white spot appeared where it did.
It was a decision against Australia, who gives a fuck?
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Am going down tomorrow, seriously concerned if there will be any play !
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I'll be amazed if at the very least the overs aren't reduced.
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We're going tomorrow as well. Not holding out much hope of seeing any play.
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As a Bears fan, hope Chris Woakes does well if he gets his chance (selection and weather permitting!!). Goes to show how much strengty in depth England currently have in the bowling department that he has not had too many opportunities before.
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I think the general feeling from those involved in picking the top team is taht he is just lacking a yard or two to really break through onto the international scene.
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So, Skyline tickets for today. woke up to find this summer weather. hoping we get to see some cricket...
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Betfair offering 3.05 on a no result - looks like a licence to print your own to me
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Damn bloody sodding weather. 5 hours spent at Edgbaston watching the weather and forecasts and no bloody sodding cricket.
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I bet the bars at Edgbaston did well
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I bet the bars at Edgbaston did well
The members bar was certainly busy.
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It hardly rained after 2pm. i wasn't there but I feel sorry for the 25,000 who had nothing to watch. It was a day night game which given how the rain relented should of meant some play?
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It did rain after 2pm. It kept raining on and off all day. They needed a couple of hours of sunshine and no rain to dry the pitch. That didn't happen. When the game was abandoned (approx 6.10 pm) it was pouring down.
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Edgbaston must of been stuck underneath a cloud then.
Shame this summer has been a washout for international fixtures.
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Edgbaston must of been stuck underneath a cloud then.
Shame this summer has been a washout for international fixtures.
May be we should move the ground somewhere drier. -;). For about three quarters of a hour every hour, we thought we were going to be lucky and then we'd see the umbrellas going up. *sigh*.
At least we've got the t20 against South Africa to look forward to in September. Surely it can't still be raining then.
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Finn really is very very good and what a catch by Kies. Finn should be in the Test side.
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Finn#s got the potential to be a top test bowler, and he would take wickets but he's at times very expensive when batsman aren't trying to score off every ball because he always throw down 1 that can be smacked to the fence fairly safely. If Jimmy and Broad weren't taking regular wickets then he'd come in as the 3rd option, but whilst they're effective a stingy Bresnan who can come in and build pressure, whilst still taking a decent amount of wickets, is a slightly better choice.
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Finn#s got the potential to be a top test bowler, and he would take wickets but he's at times very expensive when batsman aren't trying to score off every ball because he always throw down 1 that can be smacked to the fence fairly safely. If Jimmy and Broad weren't taking regular wickets then he'd come in as the 3rd option, but whilst they're effective a stingy Bresnan who can come in and build pressure, whilst still taking a decent amount of wickets, is a slightly better choice.
And Bresnan offers more with the bat. He has a test average of over 40 whereas Finn averages 7. Finn does have time on his side as he is not yet 24. If he's patient he will be an able replacement for the time when Jimmy calls it a day.
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Fair play to Hussey and Lee, good performance from them to make it reasonably competitive, can't help thinking we've let them get 50 more than we should've there though.
To reverse that we got very unlucky with the review that we didn't win (in situations like that I don't think you should lose the review, it was hitting afterall) and then a plumb lbw a couple of balls later that we couldn't review. Add in a couple of fairly tough catches (and a dolly for Morgan) that we let go down and we certainly had them on the ropes most of the innings.
Back to Finn, just showing the highlights, the rank full toss just after his 2nd wicket clarifies what I was saying better than anything else I could type. He's very close to being a world class bowler but he needs to cut out those deliveries that just gift runs to the opposition, once he does he's the clear choice to come in to replace Jimmy long term.
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The Windies fans in Jamaica have taken up the vuvuzela with great zeal. :-(
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Mark Boucher retiring from international cricket, after 147 tests what a way to go.
get well soon Mark.
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Hope he recovers soon, a fine player.
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Horrible injury for something so innocuous, poor guy, hope he recovers ok.
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Horrible injury for something so innocuous, poor guy, hope he recovers ok.
Neil Carter tweeted yesterday blaming the English summer for the injury. He has said that if it had been a decent day weather-wise he'd have been wearing his shades and they'd have taken the impact rather than his eye. There's some logic there I guess.
He was a great keeper and the Saffers will be weakened by his absence.
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Not having a go at Anderson as he's normally excellent, but England have dropped far too many catches in recent times.
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I repeat, that's 3 catches put down today.
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Horrible injury for something so innocuous, poor guy, hope he recovers ok.
Neil Carter tweeted yesterday blaming the English summer for the injury. He has said that if it had been a decent day weather-wise he'd have been wearing his shades and they'd have taken the impact rather than his eye. There's some logic there I guess.
He was a great keeper and the Saffers will be weakened by his absence.
i am of the opinion that when standing up to the stumps with spin bowlers bowling at 55-60 mph nowadays all wicketkeepers should be wearing helmets.
I always wore one but i am extremely handsome and couldnt afford the monday off with my nose splattered over my face, slightly tongue in cheek but you know what i mean!
this could have been avoided and before i hear that the best keepers just dont, well the best batsmen in the world just do now where as in the past they just didnt!
it is the rules in junior cricket, why should his career be over now as it could have been easily avoided!
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Australia's circus is rolling into town now.
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Horrible injury for something so innocuous, poor guy, hope he recovers ok.
Neil Carter tweeted yesterday blaming the English summer for the injury. He has said that if it had been a decent day weather-wise he'd have been wearing his shades and they'd have taken the impact rather than his eye. There's some logic there I guess.
He was a great keeper and the Saffers will be weakened by his absence.
i am of the opinion that when standing up to the stumps with spin bowlers bowling at 55-60 mph nowadays all wicketkeepers should be wearing helmets.
I always wore one but i am extremely handsome and couldnt afford the monday off with my nose splattered over my face, slightly tongue in cheek but you know what i mean!
this could have been avoided and before i hear that the best keepers just dont, well the best batsmen in the world just do now where as in the past they just didnt!
it is the rules in junior cricket, why should his career be over now as it could have been easily avoided!
At age 35 his career was almost over anyway. I wonder that with the uncertain recovery period he is facing whether he was going to retire after this series anyway.
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Australia are embarrassingly outmatched by England. They're about 10 batsmen light.
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Good fuck 'em.
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Hmmm struggling a bit here. Although losing 3 overs and only 8 runs is a bit harsh.
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I've always thought Bopara had talent, and he's looking a much more assured cricketer now. What with Morgan sorting his technique out again, things are looking up.
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I repeat, that's 3 catches put down today.
No problem, we're still too good for the convicts. Get the poor catching out of the way before the test series against a decent team.
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Bopara has played brilliantly this series and he deserves the number 6 slot against the Saffers in my opinion.
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Morgan to come in and play that shot, shows he's back again.
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Always nice to beat that lot
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Any truth in the rumour that Australia are considering merging with South Africa to give themselves a chance in the next Ashes?
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Sounds like KP might reverse his retirement his decision. I hope he does, I think we need him in the Twenty20 side. They just need to rest him like they do the other players.
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No KP in World 20Twenty squad then. Interesting that Prior and Cook have been included.
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This series is going to be a belter, I reckon we'll just nick it. Jimmy to be leading wicket taker and KP to be leading runs scorer.
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I reckon Steyn will be leading wicket-taker but England'll still win.
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It's a real shame they've only made in a 3 match series. These are the 2 best sides in the world, with batting and bowling line-ups that compare well and a handful of players in each side who are capable of delivering something special, it deserves a full 5 match series.
I just hope the weather doesn't ruin it.
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That's the right call at the toss I think, bit of moisture in the outfield should make it nice and quick.
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Christ not the way to start the series Strauss. We need a big comeback here.
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Christ not the way to start the series Strauss. We need a big comeback here.
He was out in the first over of the last Ashes series and we coped well then. We can do the same now.
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They're recovering well, keep going lads.
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They're recovering well, keep going lads.
Trott again proving what a valuable asset he is at number three. Having looked at the two sides, I think we slightly shade it in the batting department, but the bowling units are pretty evenly matched. Can you imagine the South African batting line up if our South African born players (Strauss, Trott and KP) had chosen to play for the country of their birth!!
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They're recovering well, keep going lads.
Trott again proving what a valuable asset he is at number three. Having looked at the two sides, I think we slightly shade it in the batting department, but the bowling units are pretty evenly matched. Can you imagine the South African batting line up if our South African born players (Strauss, Trott and KP) had chosen to play for the country of their birth!!
I think Swann is the key in the bowling. We both have great pace attacks but Swann is far and away the better spinner on his record. I think he's got a very important role to play in these matches.
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Great innings Cooky again, and well played Trott. Now KP a century please.
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Fucking hell KP that's a really poor time and way to get out.
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The worst thing the delivery before I was thinking why is Kallis bowling there, KP will just slog him away down leg, then that's exactly what he tried to do and got it all wrong.
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Shocking from KP absolute rubbish...............
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Great day from England and it sets a good marker for the series.
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Bad time to lose Cook. Right Ravi time to step up.
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Can that be the last time we give Bopara a chance. It's Ramprakash all over again.
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That is appalling from Bopara. We're in trouble here now, what a terrible terrible start to the morning.
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Sort it out England, this has been a shambles this morning.
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That is appalling from Bopara. We're in trouble here now, what a terrible terrible start to the morning.
Plenty of batting still to come and Bell is the right man to bat with the lower middle order and the tail.
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That is appalling from Bopara. We're in trouble here now, what a terrible terrible start to the morning.
Plenty of batting still to come and Bell is the right man to bat with the lower middle order and the tail.
Until he gets out that is!
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We're not in trouble!
We bat down to number 10 and I fancy out bowlers to give us a first innings lead as long as we get somewhere near 350. Then this pitch will start wearing and Swann will rip through them in the fourth innings.
Bopara has probably blown his last Test chance though, might as well let some of the youngsters have a go at number five to get used to Test cricket than just keep letting Bopara fail.
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Well regardless of the context of the whole game, this has been about as bad a first hour as possible. Really really poor, but this England team has shown resilience in the past and needs to fight back hard.
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Test cricket isn't supposed to be easy so in the context of the series I'm pleased that SA are showing some fight. The game is nicely poised now and my chances of getting anything done today have been reduced significantly.
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South Africa have a superb bowling attack, and with overcast skies and a new ball it was never going to be easy against them, at some point there was bound to be a small clatter of wickets. What differentiates this England team from the horror shows of the past is their ability to not let small clatters turn into massive collapses.
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Come on Prior dig in, you've had some serious luck but we need a good score here.
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Well that's a pretty horrendous session from us. Need a good afternoon session to fightback now, if we could somehow fight to 400 that'd be good.
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We really need Swann to hold up and end to allow Prior to nudge and nurdle another 30-odd runs and the score to 400. That will put down a marker for the series.
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385 all out. Disappointing when you consider we were 250 - 2.
Time for the bowlers to work their magic.
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Get in there Jimmy!
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Well Prior did a good job, but we need some more early wickets.
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What is the forecast like for tomorrow?
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What is the forecast like for tomorrow?
Good, little chance of rain.
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What is the forecast like for tomorrow?
Good, little chance of rain.
Excellent, could be good for Warwick too!
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I was enjoying the commentary on the BBC stream on tv that we get over here until this fucking wind that has been around for ever blew my dish of the roof. How did it finish today ?
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Very poor day for England.
In fairness they threw away a couple of outstanding positions against the West Indies earlier in the summer. Difference being that the Windies are nowhere near as strong as SA, so couldn't take advantage of being allowed back into the game.
Game is now in a very balanced position. First session important.
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We need to come out all guns blazing tomorrow morning and do what South Africa did to us today.
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Good hard day of Test Cricket which you'd expect from the two standout sides in the world.
385 is a decent score on this dry pitch so hopefully Swann will come into his own when the sun comes out and it starts to dust up. Need to break this partnership early though and get into the middle order asap, not sure their tail has many runs in it.
Wonderfully poised match now.
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I think need to up our intensity a bit.
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Control has been good, but we haven't looked particularly threatening.
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Control has gone completely now.
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This round the wicket stuff from Broad is not yielding anything except for runs to South Africa.
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I'd bowl Bresnan now and give Bopara a few overs from the other end.
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He may well prove me wrong again and I hope he does, but Bresnan is not offering a great deal in this match at the moment.
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He may well prove me wrong again and I hope he does, but Bresnan is not offering a great deal in this match at the moment.
That's a little harsh Paul! He's only bowled 6 overs so far.
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He may well prove me wrong again and I hope he does, but Bresnan is not offering a great deal in this match at the moment.
That's a little harsh Paul! He's only bowled 6 overs so far.
And he's into the attack now......almost got Amla 1st ball
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He may well prove me wrong again and I hope he does, but Bresnan is not offering a great deal in this match at the moment.
That's a little harsh Paul! He's only bowled 6 overs so far.
Not for me I would have picked Finn before him........
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He may well prove me wrong again and I hope he does, but Bresnan is not offering a great deal in this match at the moment.
That's a little harsh Paul! He's only bowled 6 overs so far.
And he's into the attack now......almost got Amla 1st ball
Yep and I hope he does well, but I still worry about him in a 3 man seam attack.
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He may well prove me wrong again and I hope he does, but Bresnan is not offering a great deal in this match at the moment.
That's a little harsh Paul! He's only bowled 6 overs so far.
Not for me I would have picked Finn before him........
Bressie gets in as he is an excellent lower order batsman and a top bowler. Why drop him? Finn is a wonderful bowler but does Bressie deserve to be dropped?
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He may well prove me wrong again and I hope he does, but Bresnan is not offering a great deal in this match at the moment.
That's a little harsh Paul! He's only bowled 6 overs so far.
Not for me I would have picked Finn before him........
Bressie gets in as he is an excellent lower order batsman and a top bowler. Why drop him? Finn is a wonderful bowler but does Bressie deserve to be dropped?
When we are only playing 4 bowlers we need them all to be top quality , I agree Bresnan is an excellent lower order batsmen but his bowling is very ordinary on flat pitches. Finn gives another dimension to the attack
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He may well prove me wrong again and I hope he does, but Bresnan is not offering a great deal in this match at the moment.
That's a little harsh Paul! He's only bowled 6 overs so far.
Not for me I would have picked Finn before him........
Bressie gets in as he is an excellent lower order batsman and a top bowler. Why drop him? Finn is a wonderful bowler but does Bressie deserve to be dropped?
When we are only playing 4 bowlers we need them all to be top quality , I agree Bresnan is an excellent lower order batsmen but his bowling is very ordinary on flat pitches. Finn gives another dimension to the attack
His runs will always see him picked ahead of Finn.
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South Africa have won several consecutive sessions here.
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In the least surprising announcement of the day; SGB really like Graeme Smith's style of play and doesn't care how slow he's scoring.
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Apparently whenever Smith has scored a 100 in a test SA have never lost a test
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The ball is doing nothing, according to Michael Vaughan on TMS it went soft very early. They've complained to the umpires but have received short shrift. New ball due in 17 overs I think we're going to need some major success with the new ball if we're going to have any chance of saving this game let alone drawing it.
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The ball is doing nothing, according to Michael Vaughan on TMS it went soft very early. They've complained to the umpires but have received short shrift. New ball due in 17 overs I think we're going to need some major success with the new ball if we're going to have any chance of saving this game let alone drawing it.
Indeed they need to do some serious thinking at lunch. We have lost four sessions in a row here.
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Mrs Smith
(http://images.supersport.com/MorganDeane-with-GraemeSmith110318G300.jpg)
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A captains innings from Smith
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An unlovely but incredibly effective ton from Smith. For the first time in a long time, I was wondering how and where the next wicket is coming from for England.
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The ball is doing nothing, according to Michael Vaughan on TMS it went soft very early. They've complained to the umpires but have received short shrift. New ball due in 17 overs I think we're going to need some major success with the new ball if we're going to have any chance of saving this game let alone drawing it.
Tuffers was surmising earlier that they had a batch of soft balls (ooo er missus)
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Well South Africa completely changed the game just before their second new ball, we desperately need to do that as well.
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Not happy with tactics here, we're being too negative and it's not working.
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Well one play and a miss, but other than that we look pretty flat.
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I do wish we had Finn in this side, we are lacking pace and aggression.
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This is utter fucking shit Broad.
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Buffet bowling...............
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The reality is that our score with the bat was below par and the bowling has been very ordinary.
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This will give them a big wake up call and hopefully look @ the selections of Bopara/Bresnan
If we go 1 -0 down in a 3 match series we are really gonna struggle to even get a draw out of it
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Broad has bowled very poorly as well. We are badly down on pace.
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very lucky but we will take it
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Oh thank god, well done Bres keep proving me wrong. Right we badly need to go through them now, need Kallis and De Villiers out quick. Anderson and Broad you need to up your game and pace massively.
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Come on Jimmy, get your pace up.
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5 sessions in a row to the Saffers now, England need a massive session after tea.
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TMS taking the piss out of Kallis' "hair"
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Bloody hell our bowling just doesn't look remotely threatening.
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Broad getting a cob on here.
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Poor from Swann again, on a spinning pitch he has looked pretty tame.
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Poor from Swann again, on a spinning pitch he has looked pretty tame.
Cough.... Monty .... cough
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Finn needs to be in this side, we definitely lack pace.
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Gotta say this has been a pathetic couple of days.
At least 150 short batting, and nothing remotely good enough from the bowlers. The lack of intensity is the most worrying thing. Most of the players just seem to be going through the motions. Whats wrong with changing things up a bit. A spell of nothing but bouncers or something like that?
On a side note, Finn just has to be in the team for the next match.
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Gotta say this has been a pathetic couple of days.
At least 150 short batting, and nothing remotely good enough from the bowlers. The lack of intensity is the most worrying thing. Most of the players just seem to be going through the motions. Whats wrong with changing things up a bit. A spell of nothing but bouncers or something like that?
On a side note, Finn just has to be in the team for the next match.
He does we have been shockingly lack of pace and ideas today, really really poor. It's been two very bad days from England.
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i think its more to do with the batting. the pitch is lifeless and we didn't make best use of it when batting. should have been a bare minimum of 450. In saying that they also had the best of what decent bowling conditions there were.
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Surrey chief executive Richard Gould on if Kevin Pietersen would be offered a full-time contract at The Oval if he turns down his England central contract: "Potentially, yes. We haven't had that conversation yet, but he's one of the most outstanding batsmen in the world. We have to make money available [in case players aren't offered central contracts], and if they are then that money goes back into the budget."
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Being a bit harsh on England. It's a flat, slow pitch; the overhead conditions aren't conducive to massive swing; and South Africa have a formidable batting line up.
It's true we've not had a brilliant day but these are the players and tactics that have got us to number one in the world and they're entitled to an off day. We can't have it all our own way every time and especially not in circumstances like these.
Not sure Finn would have made much difference - the pitch would have negated his qualities.
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I still rate England as number one in the world but in these conditions, with a bowling attack that's been feted for two or more years and plenty of backup awaiting to come in, this has been a very disappointing test match thus far. I won't criticise the effort as it's never in question but the effectiveness has been terrible and makes a mockery of the light in which England are spoken.
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Well played South Africa, but England have been very ordinary in all aspects of the game for the last two days and have a hell of a fight to save this match.
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Being a bit harsh on England. It's a flat, slow pitch; the overhead conditions aren't conducive to massive swing; and South Africa have a formidable batting line up.
It's true we've not had a brilliant day but these are the players and tactics that have got us to number one in the world and they're entitled to an off day. We can't have it all our own way every time and especially not in circumstances like these.
Not sure Finn would have made much difference - the pitch would have negated his qualities.
Pretty much as I see it. It's not a time to panic. We're a damned good side, you don't get to number one in the world otherwise. Even the best Aussie/Indian teams struggled at times.
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I don't think some of the criticism on here in warranted either. SA are a very good side and Smith, Amla and Kallis are all players that i'd have in a world XI.
Sure the bowling attack hasn't fired but that's the first time in how long? I'd still pick them for the next Test regardless of the result. The pitch looks slow and flat and England now have to sit in and dry up the runs, take time out of the game and hope that we can get through 4 sessions with the bat at the end.
A draw would be a great result from here on in.
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i think its nailed on for a draw. you'd guess South Africa will have to bat for 4 sessions if they don't get quick runs tomorrow to put us out of the game. Two sessions won't be enough to bowl us out. Neither would 3.
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I don't think some of the criticism on here in warranted either. SA are a very good side and Smith, Amla and Kallis are all players that i'd have in a world XI.
Sure the bowling attack hasn't fired but that's the first time in how long? I'd still pick them for the next Test regardless of the result. The pitch looks slow and flat and England now have to sit in and dry up the runs, take time out of the game and hope that we can get through 4 sessions with the bat at the end.
A draw would be a great result from here on in.
Well lets see what happens 2moro and I would take the draw now
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They're going to be in the box seat whatever happens. It should be a draw but it woudn't be the first time we've had a batting collapse.
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One of those matches. Bloody hell, surely most of you are old enough to remember when we were truly shite!
Conditions and the pitch went against us, and the Sarfers are the second best Test team so will always take advantage.
Hang in for the draw and go again.
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Why no Swann yet and with 450 on the board why no 3rd man ??
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In fairness, swann has probably put in his worst bowling performance for England, considering the conditions.
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We look broken in this match, I really hope we can sort ourselves out for the batting.
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Neil Manthorp suggests that England no longer have a "bowling attack", its a "bowling defence".
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I think Smith will probably declare soon but I reckon there's an argument for keeping England in the field for another session. Utterly demoralise them and make it impossible for them to make the Saffers bat again.
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Tough call for a captain. Bat us out of the game or hope for quick wickets against a tired team.
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Victor's comment on the England bowling figures as at tea...............
"Ughhhh"
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Tough call for a captain. Bat us out of the game or hope for quick wickets against a tired team.
We are out of the game anyway, No way are we gonna score enough runs to make it difficult for them it would be after tea 2moro before we get level
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If it was a 5 match series (as it should be) then I'd be tempted to let Amla have a crack at the world record.
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Perhaps I should have said bat us to the point of there being no possibility we could overtake them.
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They've declared during the tea interval. Tough session coming right up.
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Perhaps I should have said bat us to the point of there being no possibility we could overtake them.
I reckon he should declare and give his bowlers as much time as possible and with their batting even if we do go past them they could easily knock the runs off
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We are in big big trouble
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Truly atrocious performance this is turning into
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We are in big big trouble
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Going down without a fight so far. Very poor from Trott
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Pietersen owes England a very big innings here.
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Truly atrocious performance this is turning into
Seen worse.
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Truly atrocious performance this is turning into
Seen worse.
You are correct of course. But this set of england players shouldn't be dominated to this extent.
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This has been really poor. I have no faith in KP in this sort of scenario.
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THis is like a bad acid flashback. Hopefully a one-off. <shudder>
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There you go, fucking shite KP.
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Right. Over to the utterly boring golf. If I can't see it, it's not happening.
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Could this be all over this evening ?
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Well played KP. Most batsman would have hit a dead straight ball that doesn't swing or seam. You decided to try something a bit different.
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Why is there such a lack of fight?
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Finn has to come in for next game, as we have to win.
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Time for KP to run along and play 20/20 which is all he really wants to do any way. We need to blood new batsmen like James Taylor, Nick Compton and Johnny Bairstow
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I'm beginning to think so too, Pietersen can win a game on his own when he wants to but those days seem to be in the past, time to drop him and Bopara and blood the next generation of batsmen.
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I knew when KP went in he'd fail, he cannot dig in at all and it's completely irresponsible.
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Finn has to come in. He should have been in for this test. Bresnan is a good cricketer, but Finn is the better bowler.
Either way, I just can't see England turning this level of performance around enough to win either the second or the third test. Some of the players need to have a good look at themselves. We haven't played good test cricket since last summer. Laurels appear to have been rested on.
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Finn has to come in. He should have been in for this test. Bresnan is a good cricketer, but Finn is the better bowler.
Either way, I just can't see England turning this level of performance around enough to win either the second or the third test. Some of the players need to have a good look at themselves. We haven't played good test cricket since last summer. Laurels appear to have been rested on.
I think your spot on mate and Swann seriously has to look at his recent test performances and Bopara has to go as well
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Yep last summer was the last time we were genuinely good.
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After the first day this has been utterly embarrassing.
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After the first day this has been utterly embarrassing.
Impossible to disagree with that
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There was some stat about England's opponents being 700-odd for 3 (or something like that) in the last few innings
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If it was a 5 match series (as it should be) then I'd be tempted to let Amla have a crack at the world record.
Nevertheless a magnificent batting display from him. Hashim Amla joins the world's great batters list.
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It's appalling that it's not a 5 match series as well.
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Firstly, SA for a very good side. They've got that balance where everyone in their team is the right age with the right level of experience, world class batters and bowlers and well lead. So while we've dined out on the likes of Australia, India and the West Indies for the last few years these were always the next best side.
It's the classic Test Cricketing scenario though. Put a side in the field for 3 days and they are knackered. Put so many runs on the board that we can bowl aggressively and set ultra attacking fields. Had the roles been reversed it'd be us polishing off them make no mistake. That last session was always going to be the toughest and we cracked, just like most teams would and invariably do in those positions.
We'll probably now lose by an innings. I'm not sure Finn would have made much difference as it was a slow pitch but Swann was disappointing. England have done less with the ball in 3 days than i've seen for a decade but i'm not panicking.
So far on this page alone people have called for Bresnan, Swann, Pietersen and Bopara to get dropped. It aint gonna happen and nor should it. We're not Australia 1994-2007 but we're also not England 1989-1997 either. Their world class performers have all stood up in this match, as world class performers have a tendency to do from time to time, and good luck to them. Now we need to back ours to do the same in the next.
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Firstly, SA for a very good side. They've got that balance where everyone in their team is the right age with the right level of experience, world class batters and bowlers and well lead. So while we've dined out on the likes of Australia, India and the West Indies for the last few years these were always the next best side.
It's the classic Test Cricketing scenario though. Put a side in the field for 3 days and they are knackered. Put so many runs on the board that we can bowl aggressively and set ultra attacking fields. Had the roles been reversed it'd be us polishing off them make no mistake. That last session was always going to be the toughest and we cracked, just like most teams would and invariably do in those positions.
We'll probably now lose by an innings. I'm not sure Finn would have made much difference as it was a slow pitch but Swann was disappointing. England have done less with the ball in 3 days than i've seen for a decade but i'm not panicking.
So far on this page alone people have called for Bresnan, Swann, Pietersen and Bopara to get dropped. It aint gonna happen and nor should it. We're not Australia 1994-2007 but we're also not England 1989-1997 either. Their world class performers have all stood up in this match, as world class performers have a tendency to do from time to time, and good luck to them. Now we need to back ours to do the same in the next.
As I am amongst those for calling for some of the players to be dropped I question you calling Bresnan/Bopara "world class" and I would drop them, KP and Swann deserve another chance but as has been stated above we havnt played well in Test Matches for ages and the team need a "wake up call" and lets hope this match gives it to them
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Firstly, SA for a very good side. They've got that balance where everyone in their team is the right age with the right level of experience, world class batters and bowlers and well lead. So while we've dined out on the likes of Australia, India and the West Indies for the last few years these were always the next best side.
It's the classic Test Cricketing scenario though. Put a side in the field for 3 days and they are knackered. Put so many runs on the board that we can bowl aggressively and set ultra attacking fields. Had the roles been reversed it'd be us polishing off them make no mistake. That last session was always going to be the toughest and we cracked, just like most teams would and invariably do in those positions.
We'll probably now lose by an innings. I'm not sure Finn would have made much difference as it was a slow pitch but Swann was disappointing. England have done less with the ball in 3 days than i've seen for a decade but i'm not panicking.
So far on this page alone people have called for Bresnan, Swann, Pietersen and Bopara to get dropped. It aint gonna happen and nor should it. We're not Australia 1994-2007 but we're also not England 1989-1997 either. Their world class performers have all stood up in this match, as world class performers have a tendency to do from time to time, and good luck to them. Now we need to back ours to do the same in the next.
As I am amongst those for calling for some of the players to be dropped I question you calling Bresnan/Bopara "world class" and I would drop them, KP and Swann deserve another chance but as has been stated above we havnt played well in Test Matches for ages and the team need a "wake up call" and lets hope this match gives it to them
Where did I call Bresnan/Bopara 'world class'? I'm talking about our 'World class' performers, Cook, Anderson, Swann and Broad. Theirs, Smith, Amla, Kallis and Steyn got the job done - ours didn't. I think we played well in the second Test in Sri Lanka and the West Indies series.
I bet every side we play against would love us to drop KP. And replace him with who?
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Talking of 'World Class' players. My world XI
Smith (C)
Cook
Amla
Jayawardne
Clarke
Kallis
Prior
Broad
Steyn
Anderson/Swann
Ajmal
Depending on pitch conditions, I might go in with two spinners.
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England - South Africa series seem to follow a pattern.
They whip us, we bounce back and whip them. They are a good side but so are we. We're just having a bad game, the first since the 1st Ashes Test in 2009.
I expect us to lose tomorrow, but we will bounce back.
I'd leave the bowlers as they are but do question Bopara. Hopefully he will prove me wrong tomorrow. I don't have a huge amount of confidence in potential replacements. Bairstow was found out by an average Windies attack. Taylor isn't ready and Compton is not test class. That leaves Morgan.
In the 2009 Ashes Bopara was in a similar position and was dropped after 4 tests. Trotty came in and looked a natural from his first game. I don't have a lot of faith in the next generation of batsmen.
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Firstly, SA for a very good side. They've got that balance where everyone in their team is the right age with the right level of experience, world class batters and bowlers and well lead. So while we've dined out on the likes of Australia, India and the West Indies for the last few years these were always the next best side.
It's the classic Test Cricketing scenario though. Put a side in the field for 3 days and they are knackered. Put so many runs on the board that we can bowl aggressively and set ultra attacking fields. Had the roles been reversed it'd be us polishing off them make no mistake. That last session was always going to be the toughest and we cracked, just like most teams would and invariably do in those positions.
We'll probably now lose by an innings. I'm not sure Finn would have made much difference as it was a slow pitch but Swann was disappointing. England have done less with the ball in 3 days than i've seen for a decade but i'm not panicking.
So far on this page alone people have called for Bresnan, Swann, Pietersen and Bopara to get dropped. It aint gonna happen and nor should it. We're not Australia 1994-2007 but we're also not England 1989-1997 either. Their world class performers have all stood up in this match, as world class performers have a tendency to do from time to time, and good luck to them. Now we need to back ours to do the same in the next.
As I am amongst those for calling for some of the players to be dropped I question you calling Bresnan/Bopara "world class" and I would drop them, KP and Swann deserve another chance but as has been stated above we havnt played well in Test Matches for ages and the team need a "wake up call" and lets hope this match gives it to them
Where did I call Bresnan/Bopara 'world class'? I'm talking about our 'World class' performers, Cook, Anderson, Swann and Broad. Theirs, Smith, Amla, Kallis and Steyn got the job done - ours didn't. I think we played well in the second Test in Sri Lanka and the West Indies series.
I bet every side we play against would love us to drop KP. And replace him with who?
I wouldn't say we played well against the Windies. They are a poor side, who couldn't take advantage after we twice let them back into matches after batting collapses. The batsman against Pakistan were very poor, as they were KP aside in the series against Sri Lanka.
I don't think anyone has suggested dropping Swann, but at the same time he is not immune from criticism. His bowling in this test has been very poor at best. To not even remotely look like taking a wicket in 50 overs, only to see an inferior spinner like Tahir cause our batsmen all sorts of problems on the same pitch isn't good enough. He'll bounce back because he's a quality performer, but he should be suitably embarrassed at the moment.
KP has got out very poorly both times in this test. (In fairness Trott got out softly too and Strauss's shot was a joke)
Today was especially bad. To miss a dead straight ball by that much is awful. His attitude approaching this test hasn't helped either. Again there's no way he should be dropped though. He's a matchwinner, and hopefully he realises he owes England a match winning performance in this series.
Bopara has to be given all 3 matches. His form in the ODIs was strong and it would be very difficult for someone else to come in for the next match where there will be a lot of pressure, given that England will have to win the match.
The only change I'd make would be Finn for Bresnan (nothing against Bresnan, who is a good cricketer, but Finn is a much more potent bowler and has the potential to be one of the top 3 or 4 in the world on his current ability, never mind the natural progression he'll make)
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I actually don't see Finn as the shoe in everybody thinks he might be. I'd agree that his extra pace and bounce would be an asset but only on the right deck.
So playing Devils advocat, if they did make a change, there's alot to be said for the wicket to wicket nip away of Onions - you only have to take a look at Philander to see what that type of bowler can do in the right conditions (and Onions is still mid to high 80mph). Next Test is Headingley (?) where it decks about and is probably the best suited pitch for him.
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Finn has to be in for me, I rate him highly and since Michael Holding rates him massively that's enough for me.
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Talking of 'World Class' players. My world XI
Smith (C)
Cook
Amla
Jayawardne
Clarke
Kallis
Prior
Broad
Steyn
Anderson/Swann
Ajmal
Depending on pitch conditions, I might go in with two spinners.
After thinking a little while I agree with above selection. Slight question mark over Clarke and Prior but a good balanced team. Amazing how Indians have slipped out of this sort of ranking over the last 12 months or so?
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"Since Tino Best walked out to bat for West Indies at Edgbaston earlier in the summer, England have taken just three Test wickets for 780 runs. They have toiled away for 220 overs, conceding an average of 3.50 runs per over."
That is an indicment of our recent bowling.
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what the frig is he playing at that for???
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Well I think that's the end of Bopara, another batsman who gets in and then out.
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warne said bopara was unlucky, i say stupid!
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Our problem is we have become as a team very irresponsible of late and that was demonstrated in the UAE as well. We just go out and play our strokes without taking into account the conditions. The only players who make an effort to do that are Cook and Trott and even then they're not massively consistent at it. I hope he proves me wrong and I really rate him, but Prior is not the sort to hang around for a long time.
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(http://www.loveyourgut.com/wp-content/uploads/phil-tufnell-2-681x1024.jpg)
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We need these two to last until tea and one of them to bat through.
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I think we are more than capable of salvaging a draw from this position. I'd agree with calls for Finn to be included, but I am not sure I'd drop Bresnan being as the next game is on his home ground. Would really like to see us go in with the five bowlers at Headingley, but not sure if Bresnan is a strong enough batsman at number 7.
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I think we are more than capable of salvaging a draw from this position. I'd agree with calls for Finn to be included, but I am not sure I'd drop Bresnan being as the next game is on his home ground. Would really like to see us go in with the five bowlers at Headingley, but not sure if Bresnan is a strong enough batsman at number 7.
I wouldn't say 'more than capable', but we have a chance if these two survive until tea and one is batting at the end.
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That's that, terrible shot Prior.
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Bloddy idiot, what was he thinking? He just needed to stay there.
Tall order to get a draw now.
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Our discipline is fucking appalling, we have given away probably three quarters of our wickets.
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Don't think Bresnan will get anything here.
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One thing in Bell's favour is that he is excellent at rotating the strike with lower-order batsmen. He'll need plenty of that skill this afternoon.
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Whatever happens here, Bell is the only one who has shown anywhere near enough application. Bollocks to this 'well it's not his natural game to defend.' You're paid to win Test matches for England, if the situation dictates that you need to be defensive then you play defensive.
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That is genuinely the end.
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What a fucking terrible display this has been in every department.
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The South African bowlers have completely crushed our bowlers in this game.
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This game reminds me a lot of the first test of last summer. One hungry and tenacious side against one complacent and over confident side.
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A thoroughly chastening experience that and hopefully the kick up the arse we need. Flower and Strauss deserve a lot of credit for the last few years, they've pulled us up to the top and we've been very good, but since we thrashed India last summer we have dropped off on the whole. We got beaten comfortably in the UAE and also there were lots of similarities as the defeat in this Test, a lack of patience and irresponsible batting. We then went to Sri Lanka and redeemed ourselves a bit. We then beat the West Indies, but we were sloppy and a better side could have beaten us with the opportunities we gave them. It's now lead to this Test which has been nothing short of a destruction. I trust Flower and Strauss to turn it around, but there has to be some serious words with the batsmen and bowlers and I think we have to get Finn in now, his extra pace gives us another dimension.
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I'd consider Tremlett as an option as well.
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5 matches out of 9 we've lost this year.
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I'd consider Tremlett as an option as well.
I don't rate Tremlett, on a bouncy wicket his height and pace are useful but in general he hasn't got the discipline or variety to be a threat in test cricket.
Finn for Bresnan is a good call though. It weakens us with the bat buyt gives us a wicket-taker. As I said earlier in the thread, if the bowling attack is working with Bresnan then keep him there, he's solid enough and his batting gives us a much deeper line up than most sides. Having watched them fail with the ball last time there is an argument that we now need to look at getting the extra pace and threat that Finn brings.
The other alternative is drop Bopara and bring in Finn, moving everyone up a spot (Finn is clearly an 11). Bopara doesn't look comfortable for England and has had enough chances without ever looking like making the step up, seems a bit of a ramprakash to me, destined to never make it at international level. We'd need Bres, Broad and Swann to contribute with the bat though.
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A bit more radical than that is to bring in Finn & Onions for Bresnan & Bopara. Our quicks were half killed in the last match; if Anderson or Broad pick up a fatigue injury then we'd still have a three man pace attack. Harsh on Bopara, but we can always bring him back for the decider...
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A bit more radical than that is to bring in Finn & Onions for Bresnan & Bopara. Our quicks were half killed in the last match; if Anderson or Broad pick up a fatigue injury then we'd still have a three man pace attack. Harsh on Bopara, but we can always bring him back for the decider...
Now I'm not one for packing your team with batsmen, but even that is a bit light on batting for me.
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No Bopara in the England squad - not selected for "personal reasons". James Taylor of Notts called up.
Taylor looks a good prospect, let's hope he slots right in. The number 6 position has been a problem now since Colly retired.
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Hopefully they will call up about 11 Nottinghamshire players.
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Taylor looks talented to me and I hope he takes his chance. He looks like the most 'test' type batsmen we've tried to play at 6. That's not to say Bairstow, Buttler, Morgan etc couldn't develop more in that way. Whatever the issue is with Bopara must be serious, because that could essentially end his Test chances.
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Good news for me the Bears as well.
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Right England you need to turn up for this Test and hit the Saffers hard.
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Swann dropped for Finn, that's pretty interesting.
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Broad desperately poor again.
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Our catching has dropped off so badly in the last few months.
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Really poor all round from England this morning. Absolutely no reaction from the previous game.
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Bresnan woeful again. We look awful and we will lose this game.
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Bresnan woeful again. We look awful and we will lose this game.
Possible weather disruptions aside I agree. Hate to say it but there seems to be no fight at the moment.
England should have gone livid at the Finn thing. The umpire was correct, but why the hell wasn't it called a dead ball the 1st 3 times it happened?
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I think to be honest the team needs some sort of change. We've looked poor on the whole for the duration of this year. We're now playing a very good side and getting hammered. I agree with the policy of consistently of selection, as it got us to where we are. However there needs to be pressure on places as well. At the moment we look to have too many players who are coasting.
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I think it's now proving that England are not as good as they were hyped up to be, clearly not in the same class as South Africa.
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It looks like the South Africans are more up for this series than we are. They're hungry for the number 1 status and we seem to have coasted through every series since last summer when we achieved number one status.
The players have not become poor players overnight, they're just resting on their laurels therefore we need to freshen things up a little. Give players with a bit of hunger a go.
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I think it's now proving that England are not as good as they were hyped up to be, clearly not in the same class as South Africa.
I just can't accept that to be the case. Especially when you consider the comparative results the teams have had recently.
England hammered Australia 3-1 away, whilst SA could only draw with them 1-1 at home. England hammered India 4-0, whilst SA only drew 1-1 with India.
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England haven't taken a wicket for five sessions
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And with that..................... down goes Smithy
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I was just about to say how embarrassing this is getting. Still a bit but not quite as bad as 5 mins ago
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I don't believe that it's their better, I think it's an attitude issue. Ever since we reached the No.1 spot our level in Test cricket has dropped off. The bowlers haven't been particularly great all summer as a unit. There have been some good individual performances within innings, but we haven't worked as a bowling team. This has culminated now, with us not looking threatening at all. We've also dropped Swann when it should have been Bresnan. After this series we need a real look at our plans and performance.
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Our catching has dropped off so badly in the last few months.
Smith's wicket was England's first catch in 272.4 overs
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Exactly as an entire team our batting, bowling and fielding has badly dropped this year. It all needs addressing and a few good individual perfomances in that period do not mask that. The fact we've gone through 4 different number 6's shows all is not rosy.
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"Are you England in disguise"
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Where else can you hear stories of Alf Ramsey, George Cohen and Henry Blofeld on a train back from Hull
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Amla run out, that's a bonus. But I think Prior dropped Kallis and that could be a killer.
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Actually he wasn't dropped. We need to capitalise on this tiny opening and the bowlers actually need to turn up.
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I think englands biggest issue has been a shift in focus. We seem to determined to hit no1 in all 3 formats and, in my opinion, have focused on the 50 over format since we hit the top of the test format. This lack of focus means we look under prepared to stay in the middle and bat out 4-5 sessions. We also seem a bit impatient with the ball, bowling to plans and sticking to them got us to the top but we don't seem to have done that anything like as well since last summer.
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I think trying to be top is all 3 formats is admirable, but I think it takes time. We needed to consolidate our Test position first, but I think we've become a bit complacent.
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Body language and genral attitude really needs to improve. We should be bouncing around, letting SA know they are in a match, not meandering to fielding positions, or casually walking back to the start of the run up.
That's been a big issue in the series so far for me.
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To catch by Cook to get rid of Kallis. Come on England build on this momentum!
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That's a big wicket, we need the sort of turnaround they had in the first Test. Rain delay and come out firing after tea.
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These dropped catches are killing us.
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Needed that wicket badly. Need to knock a couple more down now.
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Great delivery from Finn to get rid of Steyn, we're fighting back finally.
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Broad finally bowling properly.
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They fought back well, but we need to do what South Africa did to us in the last test. We have to find our rhythm like we did towards the end of the day.
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Oh and I think not playing a spinner is a mistake. I would either have moved Prior up to six and played 5 bowlers, or dropped Bresnan for Finn. England need to win every session well tomorrow.
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Bowled well this morning but no reward I fear for us now.
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Struggling in a big way now.
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KP strikes we don't need a spinner. In all seriousness maybe Swann might have been a shout.
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I smell a follow on here.
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Very poor again today.
Oh, and a big well done to the headingsley groundsman for producing a flat pitch in a match England had to win.
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I don't think we've been that poor to be honest. The drop of Peterson when he was in the 20s has cost us massively, ironically dropped in the spot where Swann would've been stood if he'd played.
Swann has been missed at times though and I'd probably have just pushed everyone from prior down up a place to bring in Finn for Bopara. We really need one of Bresnan, Swann or Broad to start batting like a genuine all-rounder, they're all good with the bat but need to be a bit more consistent and, more importantly, be able to bat to the situation, if one of them does that we can easily accommodate Finn who is a great option with the ball.
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It's still winnable, lucky for Strauss there. We have to bat and bowl very well.
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Still surprised we dropped Swann and changed a bowling attack that's been doing the job consistently for 2/3 years. England blinked so kudos to the Saffas.
It'll be a hard road now with 400+ on the board but the batters need to show some grit here and not throw their wickets away - the saffa attack is good enough without that already. Parity or above gives us a chance but that would take until the morning/middle session of day 4 against this attack - time not on our side and would require a fantastic bowling performance.
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Rain forecast all weekend, it will be a surprise if there's a result in this one.
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We've just looked so flat in both tests. Its like they've collectively forgotten the hard work that it took to be number one. They are so used to not having to play at their very best at home that they don't seem to have the fight in them.
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Agreed they need to reassess everything after this series regardless of what happens, as this year our level has dropped badly and complacency has slipped into our game. It's recoverable as there are plenty of good players there and coming through, but they need to establish their focus again.
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Strauss and Cook let us down, they got in and didn't go on.
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Fucking hell KP don't get pulled into a macho war, just do your fucking job,
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Time for KP to knuckle down and get a score, he's fucked up too many times at crucial points.
Need a big partnership from him and Trott.
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Time for KP to knuckle down and get a score, he's fucked up too many times at crucial points.
Need a big partnership from him and Trott.
Indeed, we've got to go past them and then hope Petersen being injured disrupts their top order and we skittle them.
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Appalling way of getting out for the third time this series by Trott. He's badly dropped off of late.
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This innings has shown our loss of focus. We're getting in and getting out consistently and it's completely unacceptable, it's not good deliveries getting us out it's lack of application.
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Appalling way of getting out for the third time this series by Trott. He's badly dropped off of late.
Very out of character for him.
I don't know what's up with them all lately, they seem to have a collective form of the yips.
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Another terribly loose shot from Bell. Absolutely shocking batting, fucking useless.
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Right come on Taylor, show the senior batsmen how to do it.
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KP has been playing well, but lucky to be dropped there.
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Terrific theatre at Headingley. Pietersen pumped up and refusing to back down. Taylor, who looks minute compared to everyone else, on debut looking unruffled so far.
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Brilliant hundred from KP, now needs to go on. Taylor is also playing a very good understated knock.
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Yep, could be a game changing innings from Pietersen. He gets a lot of stick sometimes (mostly undeserved) but he's one of England's finest post-war batsmen.
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On form he's untouchable, our best batsman definitely. This innings could put us in with a chance with this game.
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34 doesn't reflect Taylor's effort there, that was a great knock from him. Shame he got out, now the others have to show his application.
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As strange as it sounds it's performances like this that cause KP to get so much criticism. People see this and see how good he can be and expect him to do all the time (or at least more often), at his best he's good as anyone, ever.
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Well it's a magnificent knock and he's there tomorrow which is what we need, the pace at which he's scored has given us a chance of forcing a positive result. Taylor's 34 was superb as well and the number of runs doesn't do him justice, he did what was needed and stayed in and supported KP. If we can continue this tomorrow we can win this match and turn the series, hopefully this will boost the confidence of the whole team and dent the Saffers confidence at the same time.
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Watching it back, especially on this day, KP was brilliant and there shouldn't be any questions over him. He's potentially brought us back into this series and now others need to step up and complete the job. No doubt about it, he's dented South Africa badly today.
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Oh and also I think a compromise needs to be met on the one day thing. KP and England can't and won't completely back down. So behind closed doors they should agree that he comes out of one day retirement, he'll play twenty20 and they rest him for some of the one day series.
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34 doesn't reflect Taylor's effort there, that was a great knock from him. Shame he got out, now the others have to show his application.
I honestly thought it was a little kid coming out to bat when it was Taylor's turn, like some kind of Jim'll fix it request.
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Fucking hell KP gone already. Well it's up to the others to step up here now.
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Fucking hell KP gone already. Well it's up to the others to step up here now.
It shifts it from an outside chance of winning to having to bat well enough not to lose it.
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I think there's still a chance of the win. The bowlers are going to need to come out hard and aggressive though. The Saffers have a few injuries and they have to rejig their batting line up, it's doable.
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Not at all - all 3 results are still on. if we can bat at least until lunch then we're in the box seat. If Prior can score some quick runs then I'd go as far and say we'd have a very good chance of wining.
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When was the last time Bresnan actually got a score with the bat?
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Not at all - all 3 results are still on. if we can bat at least until lunch then we're in the box seat. If Prior can score some quick runs then I'd go as far and say we'd have a very good chance of wining.
We're still 23 runs behind, with no specialist batsmen left. It would take a monumental fuck up by SA to let us win from here and we need a substantial lead to stop them from winning.
As I type Bresnan goes; we need rain.
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I think it's going to be a toss up really if the scores are fairly level. South Africa do buckle under pressure sometimes and there has been a shift over the last day.
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Terrible Broad, really really poor.
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We always talk of the batting potential of Bresnan and Broad, but in reality they frequently get fuck all. Broad also played really poorly there, they should be playing for Prior.
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The draw is most likely but I'm struggling to see how we can win it from here and I could see them leaving themselves a couple of sessions tomorrow to try to skittle us out
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Damn Prior gone, but well played. Innings are going to be level.
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Tail didn't exactly wag, but up to the bowlers to actually turn up now.
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Is Smith crocked?
His ankle looked dodgy towards the end of yesterday.
Horrible bastard of a bloke, kept calling Vaughan a 'queer' when they faced each other a few years ago.
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Is Smith crocked?
His ankle looked dodgy towards the end of yesterday.
Horrible bastard of a bloke, kept calling Vaughan a 'queer' when they faced each other a few years ago.
He is carrying a bit of an injury but due to new rules he cant have a runner,,,,,,,,,,,
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We always talk of the batting potential of Bresnan and Broad, but in reality they frequently get fuck all. Broad also played really poorly there, they should be playing for Prior.
But they aren't really there to bat, and both have got Test Match centuries to their name.
If we are six or seven wickets down and a bowler plays a poor shot we shouldn't be having a go at them, instead we should wonder why those up the order didn't get runs.
Any runs below Prior are a bonus, nothing more.
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We always talk of the batting potential of Bresnan and Broad, but in reality they frequently get fuck all. Broad also played really poorly there, they should be playing for Prior.
But they aren't really there to bat, and both have got Test Match centuries to their name.
If we are six or seven wickets down and a bowler plays a poor shot we shouldn't be having a go at them, instead we should wonder why those up the order didn't get runs.
Any runs below Prior are a bonus, nothing more.
That would be fine but Bresnan keeps getting picked for his "useful" lower order runs that he isnt contributing, Finn and Onions are far better bowlers
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We always talk of the batting potential of Bresnan and Broad, but in reality they frequently get fuck all. Broad also played really poorly there, they should be playing for Prior.
But they aren't really there to bat, and both have got Test Match centuries to their name.
If we are six or seven wickets down and a bowler plays a poor shot we shouldn't be having a go at them, instead we should wonder why those up the order didn't get runs.
Any runs below Prior are a bonus, nothing more.
Well I'd say that batting is the only reason that Bresnan gets in front of Finn, so if we're not expecting anything from him then I'd pick Finn every time.
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I agree with that, we need to pick the best bowlers and not worry about the runs. Finn is better than Bresnan.
The one thing we really miss is a proper all-rounder and have done since Flintoff retired.
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bresnan has failed today but his batting record across his test career is fantastic for an 8, ditto broad for a 9/10 and swann for a 8/9. Between them they average over a hundred, which is huge when they're picked as specialist bowlers.
As said before Bresnan need to become more consistent. If he can get that right and come in and regualrly get important runs and support the top order guy with him (i.e. do the job Taylor did) he'd be ideal as a 6, allowing 4 specialist bowlers and giving us a meaningful 5th option.
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bresnan has failed today but his batting record across his test career is fantastic for an 8, ditto broad for a 9/10 and swann for a 8/9. Between them they average over a hundred, which is huge when they're picked as specialist bowlers.
As said before Bresnan need to become more consistent. If he can get that right and come in and regualrly get important runs and support the top order guy with him (i.e. do the job Taylor did) he'd be ideal as a 6, allowing 4 specialist bowlers and giving us a meaningful 5th option.
That would be nice in theory, but Bresnan will never ever be a Test class 6 or 7.
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bresnan has failed today but his batting record across his test career is fantastic for an 8, ditto broad for a 9/10 and swann for a 8/9. Between them they average over a hundred, which is huge when they're picked as specialist bowlers.
As said before Bresnan need to become more consistent. If he can get that right and come in and regualrly get important runs and support the top order guy with him (i.e. do the job Taylor did) he'd be ideal as a 6, allowing 4 specialist bowlers and giving us a meaningful 5th option.
and as I said he isnt being picked as a specialist bowler
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We don't look particularly threatening again.
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Get Finn on, Broad is not performing.
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bresnan has failed today but his batting record across his test career is fantastic for an 8, ditto broad for a 9/10 and swann for a 8/9. Between them they average over a hundred, which is huge when they're picked as specialist bowlers.
As said before Bresnan need to become more consistent. If he can get that right and come in and regualrly get important runs and support the top order guy with him (i.e. do the job Taylor did) he'd be ideal as a 6, allowing 4 specialist bowlers and giving us a meaningful 5th option.
and as I said he isnt being picked as a specialist bowler
yes he is, but our success has been built on every player being good in a 2nd discipline of the 3 (batting, bowling, fielding). Monty, Onions and Finn are all good bowlers but don't bat or field well enough to get in ahead of Swann, Broad and Bresnan. Bresnan's record with the ball is fine for a 3rd seamer, yes Finn would bring more threat but as part of the team it's more valuable for Bresnan to be picked as a specialist bowler. That the reason for that is made because of non bowling reasons doesn't stop him being given the spot as a specialist bowler (interestingly, if you check the stats Bresnan actually has a better bowling average at test level than Finn, so it's arguable that he should get the nod purely on bowling merit).
As for him batting 6 or 7 his average with the bat is 40, that's more than good enough to be picked as an all rounder. The problem is that he currently plays as someone coming in and trying to boost the score. To play higher up he needs to play the situation better and be willing to dig in a little more. He needs to be able to do what he's done so far and score quick runs, but he also needs to be able to do the 'wall' role that we saw yesterday. I still think he'll end up batting 7 for us (with prior up to 6) so we can accommodate Finn.
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This just isn't good enough at all.
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"Reported for touching a boy" ?
... oh,....... "bhoy"
Who knew that Victor was a sailing expert
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bresnan has failed today but his batting record across his test career is fantastic for an 8, ditto broad for a 9/10 and swann for a 8/9. Between them they average over a hundred, which is huge when they're picked as specialist bowlers.
As said before Bresnan need to become more consistent. If he can get that right and come in and regualrly get important runs and support the top order guy with him (i.e. do the job Taylor did) he'd be ideal as a 6, allowing 4 specialist bowlers and giving us a meaningful 5th option.
and as I said he isnt being picked as a specialist bowler
yes he is, but our success has been built on every player being good in a 2nd discipline of the 3 (batting, bowling, fielding). Monty, Onions and Finn are all good bowlers but don't bat or field well enough to get in ahead of Swann, Broad and Bresnan. Bresnan's record with the ball is fine for a 3rd seamer, yes Finn would bring more threat but as part of the team it's more valuable for Bresnan to be picked as a specialist bowler. That the reason for that is made because of non bowling reasons doesn't stop him being given the spot as a specialist bowler (interestingly, if you check the stats Bresnan actually has a better bowling average at test level than Finn, so it's arguable that he should get the nod purely on bowling merit).
As for him batting 6 or 7 his average with the bat is 40, that's more than good enough to be picked as an all rounder. The problem is that he currently plays as someone coming in and trying to boost the score. To play higher up he needs to play the situation better and be willing to dig in a little more. He needs to be able to do what he's done so far and score quick runs, but he also needs to be able to do the 'wall' role that we saw yesterday. I still think he'll end up batting 7 for us (with prior up to 6) so we can accommodate Finn.
That's as I see it. Bresnan's figures speak for themselves.
His average is better than Broad's with the bat and the ball and is anyone questioning Broad's continued selection?
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Broad is another one who should be looked at, his level has dropped off badly. Finn should have had the new ball as well.
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Broad is another one who should be looked at, his level has dropped off badly. Finn should have had the new ball as well.
So I'm not the only one who thinks that about Broad. Apart from 11 wickets in the Lords test against the Windies he's been disappointing for some time. He's not alone in that though.
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Broad is another one who should be looked at, his level has dropped off badly. Finn should have had the new ball as well.
So I'm not the only one who thinks that about Broad. Apart from 11 wickets in the Lords test against the Windies he's been disappointing for some time. He's not alone in that though.
Broad's batting has gone backwards and overall his bowling has lost rhythm and consequently his pace is down. He'll come back but he needs to sort it out. Unfortunately we're going through a phase where a vast majority of the team are below their best by some way, and you can't get away with that.
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Broad has been inconsistent ever since he made the breakthrough. He holds on to his place during the poor phases because generally he doesn't go for much over 2-2.5 an over and he is capable of building pressure at one end allowing Jimmy and Swann to skittle people at the other. Broad also has an ability to get a wicket from nothing which is valuable.
Finn doesn't have that. Even at his best he can be expensive, when he's not taking wickets and starts trying to force things he goes up to well over 4 an over, which isn't good enough at test level.
All that said, if we start with Finn he should open the bowling with Jimmy, Finn has great pace, which we aren't making the most of by giving him a ball that's 10-15 overs old.
Englands biggest problem with the ball at the minute is actually that Jimmy and Swann haven't been as good as they were a couple of years ago, they're still playing well but you don't see the unplayable 7-8 over spells where they get a few wickets and barely give a run away anymore. Those spells were a key part of the ashes win, along with Cook and Trott playing like 2 of the best batsmen on the planet, a level they have also failed to get back to since.
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Broad has been inconsistent ever since he made the breakthrough. He holds on to his place during the poor phases because generally he doesn't go for much over 2-2.5 an over and he is capable of building pressure at one end allowing Jimmy and Swann to skittle people at the other. Broad also has an ability to get a wicket from nothing which is valuable.
Finn doesn't have that. Even at his best he can be expensive, when he's not taking wickets and starts trying to force things he goes up to well over 4 an over, which isn't good enough at test level.
All that said, if we start with Finn he should open the bowling with Jimmy, Finn has great pace, which we aren't making the most of by giving him a ball that's 10-15 overs old.
Englands biggest problem with the ball at the minute is actually that Jimmy and Swann haven't been as good as they were a couple of years ago, they're still playing well but you don't see the unplayable 7-8 over spells where they get a few wickets and barely give a run away anymore. Those spells were a key part of the ashes win, along with Cook and Trott playing like 2 of the best batsmen on the planet, a level they have also failed to get back to since.
Braod never seems to deliver when it really matters; against the Aussies and the South Africans. He does well against the next tier of test nations - West Indies and Pakistan etc. He needs to deliver consistently now or risk being dropped. He's been around International Cricket long enough now to have learnt what it is all about.
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Bit of an indictment of our bowling/selection that KP looks the only danger.
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As I said Broad, Bresnan and Swann have been poor of late. We can't afford to carry that many bowlers. Finn should have the new ball as well.
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Just how much would it annoy SA for KP to get a '5for' here. Fingers crossed.
Shows just how wrong they got it to not include Swann though, looks like there's a lot happening off the pitch now.
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Well to be honest between selection and performance(with the exception of a couple of really good individual efforts) we've been a shambles so far this series. KP is now our leading wicket taker, oh dear.
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There's that Broad knack of getting wickets. Too little too late, but oh well.
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There's that Broad knack of getting wickets. Too little too late, but oh well.
If we'd got another 50 runs in our 1st innings then things things this afternoon may have got interesting, there's still 50 overs to go. As it stands, we've got to take 5 wickets very quickly and then try and score the runs without being bowled out ourselves with our out-of-form batting line-up.
Edit - now 6 down. I take back evrything that I said about Broad who's taken 3-10 in this spell.
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7 down, Broad 4-16 in this spell. Lead is 224 with 47 overs remaining.
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Broad has finally got some rhythm.
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Realistically we'd have to knock them over within 5 or 6 overs of tea to have even the smallest chance. At least this might get Broad's confidence up a bit. I'd get Finn on against the tail as well.
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That is how Broad needs to bowl consistently.
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An England win from here is improbable given the poor form of our batsmen. The performance since lunch has been excellent and our Bowlers have finally arrived in the series.
It does make me question the wisdom of central contracts. Jimmy didn't bowl with the red ball from the end of the West Indies series until the start of this one a period of around 6 weeks.
Bowling is as much about rhythm as skill; we seem to shoot ourselves in the foot by resting bowlers for long periods and not rotating them during test series.
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8 down.
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Now that we're into the chase, which is doable but a big ask I'd rather see us go for it and lose than see us defend out a draw. Winning from here would send a message to the world (losing from here would at least show the world that strauss has balls) about how serious we are about being number 1.
Broad's spell deserves the team to make the most of it and at least try to win.
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9 down and a 5-fer for for Broad. the Saffers have declared.
253 to win off around 40 overs; it's doubtful that they'll go for it.
Time for some sensible batting from England, a few of them should use the time to play themselves back into form.
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KP opens with Cook
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Jeez they're going for it! I need to find a pub and watch this!!
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gotta give Strauss and flower credit for at least starting like we're going for it.
KP must be loving the idea of being told to go out swinging in a test match.
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Prior next and then James Taylor and once they are out play for the draw.......
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Taylor Strauss and Trott would be my insurance, I'd go Bell, Prior, Bresnan, Broad and then go conservative. I'd tell Cook to bat through as well, and let the other end go crazy.
Damn KP gone... oh well.
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KP gone
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Strauss in next..........
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looks like we're settling for the draw now, quite disappointed that the plan of attack was KP and nothing else.
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Prior in before Bell... is it just me or is this turning into a cock-swinging contest between Strauss and Smith?
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Well they gave it a go, at least we finally started getting through the South Africa line up and Broad found some form. It's a shame it's just a 3 match series, we have to massively gamble in the next Test.
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Oh and up our collective level a lot.
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Finn and Bresnan both underwhelming. I'd say there's a case for Chris Woakes being given a go.
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Finn deserves more than one Test. He should be in for Bresnan in the next Test, Woakes isn't ready to be a Test bowler yet. KP can't guarantee the next Test won't be his last, that'd be really bad.
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Finn deserves more than one Test. He should be in for Bresnan in the next Test, Woakes isn't ready to be a Test bowler yet. KP can't guarantee the next Test won't be his last, that'd be really bad.
Thats down to KP at the end of the day he either commits himself to England or to the IPL,etc
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Yeah true, but it'd be a big loss. He showed in this game that he is vital to England, noone else could have done what he did.
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Yeah true, but it'd be a big loss. He showed in this game that he is vital to England, noone else could have done what he did.
He would be a huge loss Paul but I cant see Flower/the ECB let him sign a "test match/T20" contract can you ?
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Nope I can't. Personally I'd like a bit of give from both sides. What England should say is, look Kevin we can't have you retiring from ODIs but we'll give you series off like we do the bowlers.
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Regardless of who deserves what, England have to pick the eleven players they think will give them the best possible chance of winning that final Test. That surely means Swann coming back into the side - for either Finn or Bresnan - and possibly James Taylor missing out so we can play an extra bowler.
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I agree, but I think Finn should be opening the bowling and has shown plenty of form this summer. Finn should stay in and Bresnan drop out for Swann.
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I agree, but I think Finn should be opening the bowling and has shown plenty of form this summer. Finn should stay in and Bresnan drop out for Swann.
Thats what I would do as well............
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Nope I can't. Personally I'd like a bit of give from both sides. What England should say is, look Kevin we can't have you retiring from ODIs but we'll give you series off like we do the bowlers.
I would give him a series of ODI's off yes but I wouldnt give him the test match series off v New Zealand so that he can play a full IPL season........
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Finn is also our only legitimately fast bowler and that offers another dimension. I'm fed up with him being brought in for a Test and then left out, give him a proper go. If Michael Holding would have him in his team every game that's good enough for me.
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It's going to count in his favour that the final game is at Lord's.
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If Finn is going to play he must open the bowling............
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I don't think must, but I think should. It's odd that he doesn't, but he is a genuine wicket taker. Bresnan does a decent job and sometimes takes some very useful wickets, but I can't see him going through a side and Finn can do that. Since we have to win, Finn is definitely the option.
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Thinking about it I think I'd go with 5 bowlers for the last Test(Anderson, Broad, Bresnan, Finn and Swann). We need to stay fresh and aggressive and better to lose 2-0 and give them a fight, then play out a draw and lose 1-0. Harsh on Taylor, but he impressed and will definitely be back.
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Cricket journo George Dobell has just tweeted "Every chance KP has just played his last game for England... story to follow." Gulp.
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He said he may retire from tests at the end of the third test.
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He said he may retire from tests at the end of the third test.
I realise that but Dobell appears to be suggesting this decision may be made for him.
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Not good at all, losing a player of his quality in his peak is madness.
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I watched KP's press conference. I'd rather England loose every game than accommodate such an ego driven, self-centered individual.
It came as a shock considering the good grace and sportsmanship that has, in the main, been demonstrated at the Olympics.
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I watched KP's press conference. I'd rather England loose every game than accommodate such an ego driven, self-centered individual.
It came as a shock considering the good grace and sportsmanship that has, in the main, been demonstrated at the Olympics.
He's hinted that all is not well in the dressing room and that he feels like he did when he lost the captaincy in 2009. Sorry KP you're a wonderful player to watch but you are not bigger than the team.
Time for him to walk away.
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Fuck off KP.
Quite simply, you want to play in the IPL and miss next Summer's series against New Zealand.
No England player should be able to pick and choose which tests they want to play in.
Time to say goodbye to him.
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Fuck off KP.
Quite simply, you want to play in the IPL and miss next Summers series against New Zealand.
No England player should be able to pick and chose which tests they want to play in.
Time to say goodbye to him.
I agree, problem is he makes such a difference to the team and he knows it. I expect some sort of compromise will be reached but it should all have been negotiated in private not through the media.
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Fuck off KP.
Quite simply, you want to play in the IPL and miss next Summers series against New Zealand.
No England player should be able to pick and chose which tests they want to play in.
Time to say goodbye to him.
I agree, problem is he makes such a difference to the team and he knows it. I expect some sort of compromise will be reached but it should all have been negotiated in private not through the media.
Well its KP who has brought it to everyones attention by quitting limited overs cricket and his statement last night...I reckon England wont back down and KP will walk
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He'll miss England more than England will miss him. For talk of dressing room unrest read no-one can stand the fecker.
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What I can't work out is that KP has always talked about a legacy, that legacy can only be establish in Test cricket. Play Tests for another 3-5 years, and you can play the full IPL once you finish for another 5 years. The IPL will pay over the hill 'star names', so he's still got full earning potential there.
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He'll miss England more than England will miss him. For talk of dressing room unrest read no-one can stand the fecker.
As he demonstrated by celebrating his ton at Headingley by pointing his bat to his wife in the crowd and deliberately not doing so to the dressing room.
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The biggest problem is, there was no need to schedule a test series during the IPL season, I take this as a rather heavy handed attempt by KP to get them to review the decision to host it at that time.
Don't get me wrong, KP is being an idiot over it but it is pretty silly for the ECB to put the players in a position where they miss out on what is far and away the biggest pay day of the year, the IPL is well established now and is clearly something the best players in the world want to be part of, the ECB need to respect the players a little more and let them compete.
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The biggest problem is, there was no need to schedule a test series during the IPL season, I take this as a rather heavy handed attempt by KP to get them to review the decision to host it at that time.
Don't get me wrong, KP is being an idiot over it but it is pretty silly for the ECB to put the players in a position where they miss out on what is far and away the biggest pay day of the year, the IPL is well established now and is clearly something the best players in the world want to be part of, the ECB need to respect the players a little more and let them compete.
Sorry mate Test Cricket is much more important than the IPL and o/s Asia not too many people care about it anyway
The series is away v New Zealand so the NZ cricket board would have set the dates......
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Plus the Test schedules are arranged at least two or three years ahead, way before Pietersen started throwing his toys.
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I guarantee most of the ex cricketers who moan about KP for him wanting to play IPL if they were offered 1.5 mill for a few weeks work would soon have changed there tune
KP does come over as a bit I'd a prick, and I'm sure he's not mr popular with other players, but then they arnt been offered millions to play in India, so it's easy for them to act loyal
iPL is probably here to stay, money will always win out, gota find a way of compromise
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I guarantee most of the ex cricketers who moan about KP for him wanting to play IPL if they were offered 1.5 mill for a few weeks work would soon have changed there tune
KP does come over as a bit I'd a prick, and I'm sure he's not mr popular with other players, but then they arnt been offered millions to play in India, so it's easy for them to act loyal
iPL is probably here to stay, money will always win out, gota find a way of compromise
Every modern generation of cricketers has had a head-turning amount of money thrown at some of them - Packer and at least two apartheid-supporting South African tours come to mind. Some cricketers went for the money, others refused it. Throughout all these tours test cricket was still seen as the most important thing.
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it is tough, the new zealand squad will be decimated by the amount of players that have gone to play in the ipl.
they have already declared they will be putting out a second string.
with regard kp, cricketers are a strange bunch as within playing a team game goes, they are very much individuals within a team and kp is a very talented individual needed for the benefit for the team. But in the long term, the test team will live long after kp has left anyway.
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Every modern generation of cricketers has had a head-turning amount of money thrown at some of them - Packer and at least two apartheid-supporting South African tours come to mind. Some cricketers went for the money, others refused it. Throughout all these tours test cricket was still seen as the most important thing.
Two things I'd say in response to that are that in the 1970s and 1980s, which are the decades you're talking about, pro cricketers - even the Test regulars - were paid much much less than today's Test players, especially among the major nations. And the other thing is that Pietersen is adamant this isn't about money.
My feeling is that he has genuine grounds for complaint over the schedule: those who play all 3 forms are over-worked. But while asking for time away from the schedule is a reasonable request, asking for time away from the schedule so he can go play cricket for someone else is not. Essentially he wants to have his cake and eat it - plays Tests for England as long as there isn't a big money tournament on somewhere else. And if it isn't the IPL it'll be the Big Bash.
The ECB is determined that the primacy of Test cricket should be maintained and allowing cricketers to pick and choose when they are available to play Tests is not in line with that objective. You can't have a team made up of committed Test players plus players who are only committed when there isn't money to be made elsewhere.
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Every modern generation of cricketers has had a head-turning amount of money thrown at some of them - Packer and at least two apartheid-supporting South African tours come to mind. Some cricketers went for the money, others refused it. Throughout all these tours test cricket was still seen as the most important thing.
Two things I'd say in response to that are that in the 1970s and 1980s, which are the decades you're talking about, pro cricketers - even the Test regulars - were paid much much less than today's Test players, especially among the major nations. And the other thing is that Pietersen is adamant this isn't about money.
My feeling is that he has genuine grounds for complaint over the schedule: those who play all 3 forms are over-worked. But while asking for time away from the schedule is a reasonable request, asking for time away from the schedule so he can go play cricket for someone else is not. Essentially he wants to have his cake and eat it - plays Tests for England as long as there isn't a big money tournament on somewhere else. And if it isn't the IPL it'll be the Big Bash.
The ECB is determined that the primacy of Test cricket should be maintained and allowing cricketers to pick and choose when they are available to play Tests is not in line with that objective. You can't have a team made up of committed Test players plus players who are only committed when there isn't money to be made elsewhere.
I agree with all of that, although I would say the money is a question of proportion. The early tours offered much more than cricketers could have earned on the county circuit, same as now. The only difference is a nought or two on the end for all of them. Bottom line is that there's too much cricket now.
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I agree with all of that, although I would say the money is a question of proportion. The early tours offered much more than cricketers could have earned on the county circuit, same as now. The only difference is a nought or two on the end for all of them. Bottom line is that there's too much cricket now.
That's true but I think there is a two-tier pay league now that wasn't the case 30 years ago. It's one thing for Kieron Pollard or Brendon McCullum or Daniel Vettori to miss Tests to play in the IPL because their respective national boards pay them considerably less than their counterparts in Australia, England and especially India. Pietersen is already among the highest paid players in his sport (in the world top 10 according to the rich list in this month's The Cricketer). Make no mistake, Pietersen is paid a lot by the ECB and I reckon they're entitled to believe they deserve some loyalty for that money.
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There is far too much cricket now and at the same time Test cricket seems to be taking a back seat. You only have to see England playing that ridiculous one day series against Australia instead of a 5 match Test series with South Africa as evidence of that.
The authorities need to start making Test cricket a lot more attractive financially to reflect its status as the pinnacle of the game. Also there should be a minimum of 4 Test matches in any given series. If 50 over cricket has to go to accomodate this along with a reduce schedule then so be it.
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I agree with all of that, although I would say the money is a question of proportion. The early tours offered much more than cricketers could have earned on the county circuit, same as now. The only difference is a nought or two on the end for all of them. Bottom line is that there's too much cricket now.
That's true but I think there is a two-tier pay league now that wasn't the case 30 years ago. It's one thing for Kieron Pollard or Brendon McCullum or Daniel Vettori to miss Tests to play in the IPL because their respective national boards pay them considerably less than their counterparts in Australia, England and especially India. Pietersen is already among the highest paid players in his sport (in the world top 10 according to the rich list in this month's The Cricketer). Make no mistake, Pietersen is paid a lot by the ECB and I reckon they're entitled to believe they deserve some loyalty for that money.
Definitely. Then again, I suppose the TCCB or whatever it was called then were entitled to believe that they deserved some loyalty in 1977 from the England captain rather than having him plot behind their backs to set up the WSC. As someone who watches cricket occasionally I believe that the tail is wagging the dog and limited overs has far too much influence. But, of course, that's where the TV ratings, sponsors and therefore the money are.
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IPL is losing some of its appeal in India. The 2012 tournament saw gates considerably down on other years. In it's current form it is unsustainable. Maybe KP is looking to cash in before the cash cow is milked dry.
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Definitely. Then again, I suppose the TCCB or whatever it was called then were entitled to believe that they deserved some loyalty in 1977 from the England captain rather than having him plot behind their backs to set up the WSC. As someone who watches cricket occasionally I believe that the tail is wagging the dog and limited overs has far too much influence. But, of course, that's where the TV ratings, sponsors and therefore the money are.
It's worse than that - it's primarily Indian interest in limited overs formats which is where the money is. And once their ageing stars retire, and their Test team gets even worse, the problem will only increase.
ETA - And Greig was indeed a rat bastard, not only for leaving England in the lurch but also for helping Packer to poach some of their other players.
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Am I wrong, or are you two immediately above arguing against each other?
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Not entirely. IPL attendances may be down but it's still massively popular - as are ODIs and T20 ODIs - much more so than Tests, over there.
It may be a case of them fiddling with the format to find out how many games the market will bear. They tried a similar thing over here last season with more games but found out they'd reached saturation point so decided to trim the tournament back. But it's still attended by more people than any other form of domestic cricket here, by miles.
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Bottom line is that the ICC need to look at how Test cricket is marketed, funded and organised. I love it, but only because I'm a purist and in England it is the most important thing. It's dying a death because the authorities have become complacent with its format and its pricing. It needs a big overhaul and Test series need to be given much more of a context. Their Test championship idea has now been delayed so it's pointless. The authorities are really letting the game down.
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So sounds like KP is pissed off about a Twitter parody account that he believes people in the England dressing room have set up. I'm in two minds about this, I think if it's true then it's out of order mocking a team mate on a social forum. Conversely I think maybe he should just not be too fussed by it.
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So sounds like KP is pissed off about a Twitter parody account that he believes people in the England dressing room have set up. I'm in two minds about this, I think if it's true then it's out of order mocking a team mate on a social forum. Conversely I think maybe he should just not be too fussed by it.
Mate he has to grow up im afraid.......He is on there all the time so "if you live by the sword then you die by the sword"
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Oh and if it isn't them he's annoyed that some of them are following the tweeter. Again on the one hand they probably shouldn't condone the mocking, but he needs to take things a little less seriously. I guess it depends how the tweets are read out, if it's a genuine joke then he should laugh it off. However if it's a bit more sinister then I can understand him being pissed off.
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Someone has mentioned that it's in new zealand, that's not right, the series that causes the problems is the return tests that are in england in late May. The series should have all been in new zealand, I can only think they split it like this because it was scheduled too late in the New Zealand season. If that's right (of which I'm fairly sure) the cause is a ridiculous tour to India to play an ODI series in January.
We then have a full summer with the champions trophy and the ashes and I'm not sure how valuable 2 tests and a bunch of ODIs against the NZ reserves are in the build up to that.
Don't get me wrong, KP is being an idiot, but the response from the ECB which is effectively causing our biggest game changer to retire from internationals in his prime, is heavy handed and badly thought out.
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So sounds like KP is pissed off about a Twitter parody account that he believes people in the England dressing room have set up. I'm in two minds about this, I think if it's true then it's out of order mocking a team mate on a social forum. Conversely I think maybe he should just not be too fussed by it.
Mate he has to grow up im afraid.......He is on there all the time so "if you live by the sword then you die by the sword"
Yes totally but at the same time, he doesn't belittle his team mates on there or retweet people who mock his teammates. So I can understand his annoyance a bit. If he mocked England players on Twitter or he retweeted people who did he wouldn't have a leg to stand on, but he doesn't.
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So sounds like KP is pissed off about a Twitter parody account that he believes people in the England dressing room have set up. I'm in two minds about this, I think if it's true then it's out of order mocking a team mate on a social forum. Conversely I think maybe he should just not be too fussed by it.
Mate he has to grow up im afraid.......He is on there all the time so "if you live by the sword then you die by the sword"
Yes totally but at the same time, he doesn't belittle his team mates on there or retweet people who mock his teammates. So I can understand his annoyance a bit. If he mocked England players on Twitter or he retweeted people who did he wouldn't have a leg to stand on, but he doesn't.
I would agree he doesnt belittle team mates but he has his say on most other things, sports, events so he sets himself up for people to have a go at him back
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KP has never appeared to be universally popular amongst his teamates, the coaches and the powers that be within the ECB. You only have to look at how he was left out on a limb over the captaincy/Moores saga to see another example of his teamates closing ranks.
KP should have been the best batsman in the world for the last 5 years. He has the talent but I can't help think that he has not fulfilled his potential. So near and yet so far. For every innings like his knock last weekend there are countless innings where he threw his wicket away in a moment of madness.
Time to jettison him, we've coped without him before, Ashes 2009, he is an unstabling influence in the dressing room.
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Someone has mentioned that it's in new zealand, that's not right, the series that causes the problems is the return tests that are in england in late May. The series should have all been in new zealand, I can only think they split it like this because it was scheduled too late in the New Zealand season. If that's right (of which I'm fairly sure) the cause is a ridiculous tour to India to play an ODI series in January.
We then have a full summer with the champions trophy and the ashes and I'm not sure how valuable 2 tests and a bunch of ODIs against the NZ reserves are in the build up to that.
Don't get me wrong, KP is being an idiot, but the response from the ECB which is effectively causing our biggest game changer to retire from internationals in his prime, is heavy handed and badly thought out.
I suspect all the ODI's are to prepare the team for the Champions Trophy but these dates have been set for @ least 6 months so its "hardly" forcing KP's hand
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The ECB is KP's employer - the TCCB did not employ the rebels of the 70's / 80's but merely paid them a match fee when selected so their scheming to secure a better financial deal elsewhere is understandable, regardless of what one thinks of the politics of what they were doing.
I would challenge anyone to tell their employer they want two months off work from a boring contract (NZ at home - when several of their 'names' are off playing IPL) to freelance for someone else, before returning for a nice juicy summer job (an ashes series) and get a positive reaction.
Beyond this issue, KP has plenty of previous, going back to his time as captain and the demise of Moores, the early return from the World Cup last year 24 hours after Flower stated his injury was manageable and he would be seeing the tournament out, are two that immediately spring to mind. He has managed to fall out with every team he has been a part of (Jason Gallian chucking his kit out of the window at Notts).
I love watching him bat, and have marvelled at his play many times - I saw him go some way to winning the World T20 on his own in 2010, was in Colombo in April and at Headingley last Saturday to name a few, but the England management must win this dispute for the good of English cricket and if he doesn't play again in a test match for England then so be it - the team will move on and next July when they take the field at Trent Bridge against the Aussies he will be the loser.
if he is selected at Lords next Thursday I would not be surprised if the crowd reaction is not without dissenters when he walks out to bat.
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KP says "It's tough being me and playing for England, it's tough."
Bollocks, tough is stuff like Petrov is having to go through not having people take the piss on the Internet.
Precious twat.
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This Pietersen stuff has all gone very quiet, I'm slightly surprised.
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the England management must win this dispute for the good of English cricket and if he doesn't play again in a test match for England then so be it - the team will move on and next July when they take the field at Trent Bridge against the Aussies he will be the loser.
Couldn't agree more. The England management have to deal with this firmly and if Pietersen never plays for England again then so be it. We have a group of young talented players waiting for an opportunity at test level and I would have no problems with one of them replacing him.
On a seperate note, I see Chris Woakes scored 92 for the England Lions against Australia 'A' the other day. Surely he has to come into the reckoning as a batting bowler at some point?
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This Pietersen stuff has all gone very quiet, I'm slightly surprised.
Have u seen this Paul.........
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-2186278/Kevin-Pietersen-sent-text-messages-South-African-rivals-second-Test.html
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I think the Media have got too bogged down in this Twitter bollocks.
His main gripe is that he wants to pick and choose when he plays for England and on that basis we should tell him to go fuck himself, the arrogant prick.
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This Pietersen stuff has all gone very quiet, I'm slightly surprised.
Have u seen this Paul.........
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-2186278/Kevin-Pietersen-sent-text-messages-South-African-rivals-second-Test.html
If true not very professional. To be honest KP needs to realise that a lot of his endorsements and status is based on him being an England player, that goes away if he jacks it in and acts like a child.
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I see Pietersen has said he wants to commit to playing all forms of the game for England, someone's clearly finally got through to him.
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I see Pietersen has said he wants to commit to playing all forms of the game for England, someone's clearly finally got through to him.
Where have you seen that Paul..........The ECB may take it out of his hands if they follow up these texts that he may have sent to the SA players during the last test
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It's a video interview posted on Youtube, it's now breaking news on Sky. I don't think the ECB will take it out of his hands, that interview wouldn't have come out if he hadn't spoken to the ECB. I'm hoping this whole episode can be put behind the team, and also it shows player power doesn't work. Move on with KP eating some humble pie and have a unified team again. He's a world class player and if he's accepted his mistakes he's a great asset to the team.
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Its breaking news on the BBC Website now as you say lets hope its the end of it
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Its breaking news on the BBC Website now as you say lets hope its the end of it
Indeed some serious back peddling needed and he needs to come out of his international retirement. But move on and leave it in the past, we're a better team with KP in the side and that's the bottom line.
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Great news, lets hope he celebrates with a big score next week.
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Well reading his interview on the BBC, he has essentially apologised and admitted his mistakes and that's good enough for me. Let's move on.
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KP should be kicked out of the England team now. I hope he has played his last game for England and that is exactly how his (ex )England team mates feel.
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pietersen left out of the squad for next test. the powers that be have put their foot down!
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100% the right way to go.Nice to see ECB have some balls.
Could never see the FA doing it.
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Damn, I wanted to watch him bat on Friday.
Correct decision though. As good as he is, you can't indulge a guy slagging his coach and captain to the opposition DURING A MATCH. Not to mention his trying to pick and choose one day games (fully aware of the all or nothing policy implemented by the ECB) in order to stuff his wallet. Still a real shame.
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Interesting choice, I wonder if that's it for him or whether dropping him for this Test is a message and punishment for his behaviour and he'll be back after that.
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I suspect it's the latter by the way.
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Apparently him being dropped is all around him not confirming he didn't send derogatory texts to the South Africans about Flower and Strauss.
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KP is a maverick type player, in the same mold as Cantana, McEnroe, O'Sullivan in other sports, always controversial but special players all the same,
In my view, and I accept this is not a popular view, you have to treat them a bit different, you work with them as much as possible,
there Genius in there chosen sport is the very reason they are troubled characters, they are not the same as everyone else, a greater degree of understanding and compromise needs to be taken. As they have often have big character flaws.
Having said that they are also the ones who are the most exciting to watch
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I really hope this is a wake up call for Pietersen and it really makes him think. There is no doubt on the cricketing side, we are a worse side without him. However with what's gone on last week and dating back to when he initially retired from one day cricket, his behaviour has been unacceptable and can't be tolerated. I hope him missing this Test is his punishment and it makes him realise he needs to be a team player, and moving forward he plays to his best in all forms of the game.
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If nothing else he'll be happy that he's the centre of attention (again).
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I have just read what the ECB have said and I dont think KP left them with any option as he sent the texts.
I think he is finished with England, thanks KP for all the brilliant innings and good luck
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I have just read what the ECB have said and I dont think KP left them with any option as he sent the texts.
I think he is finished with England, thanks KP for all the brilliant innings and good luck
Assuming he did send the texts, they must have been leaked by a South African player so KP gets dropped and the player they fear most is taken out of the picture.
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I have just read what the ECB have said and I dont think KP left them with any option as he sent the texts.
I think he is finished with England, thanks KP for all the brilliant innings and good luck
Assuming he did send the texts, they must have been leaked by a South African player so KP gets dropped and the player they fear most is taken out of the picture.
So be it England as a team will move on .............
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I've always been the first on here to stick up for KP but IF he sent those texts I cannot think of a more self centered, stupid and immature thing that a top class, experienced, professional sportsman could have done.
IF he did i'd be in favour of saying thanks Kevin but we won't be requiring your services anymore. Still 12 months before the Ashes gives England time. It'll be a fantastic performance to come out of this series now with No 1 enact - what with the KP, Bopara and Swann situations.
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He's not finished with England, the dropping for this Test will be his punishment. It's made him realise he can't step out of line, and he'll be back in all forms after it I expect.
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I don't think KP will be kicked into touch - I just think there's a good case to say he should. He's a very lucky boy if he isn't.
Lucky because had England the strength in depth in batting that they currently have in the bowlking department, he could easily have found himself on the outer. But England don't have a player like Peitersen and as the game changing middle order player he can get away with more than most. And lucky that a senior player well into the 2nd half of his career can undermine the leadership team in such a manner and still be welcomed back into the fold.
I'm not sure someone like Ravi Bopara would have been so lucky. The ECB say they worry about setting a precident, they must be careful they don't do just that with a limp wristed punishment.
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I think the Media have got too bogged down in this Twitter bollocks.
His main gripe is that he wants to pick and choose when he plays for England and on that basis we should tell him to go fuck himself, the arrogant prick.
Well said that man.
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Assuming he did send the texts, they must have been leaked by a South African player so KP gets dropped and the player they fear most is taken out of the picture.
Yes blame the South Africans for exposing a shallow wanker who insults his Captain and Coach in front of the opposition!
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Piers Morgan is a fucking infuriating bell end.
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Piers Morgan is a fucking infuriating bell end.
Totally agree with this, get the feeling Mark Chapman, Vaughan and Tuffers were getting seriously pissed off there.
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Well he's done Pietersen no favours there. He's probably the sort of idiot giving Pietersen advice.
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Morgan totally contradicted himself:
"Kevin just wants to be treated the same as the other players."
"You have to treat players like Pietersen differently."
Make yer fookin mind up Piers.
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Bet the SA mgmt are laughing their socks off this week....nothing like having the number one spot handed on a plate.
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Bet the SA mgmt are laughing their socks off this week....nothing like having the number one spot handed on a plate.
Or...the England team will pull together now and put in a performance, they have done it many times before recently.
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Bet the SA mgmt are laughing their socks off this week....nothing like having the number one spot handed on a plate.
Or...the England team will pull together now and put in a performance, they have done it many times before recently.
we'l see
but a good way of doing the best you can against top quality opposition is going out to bat with your best player, you know the one who saved the series for us in the last test, without who we would be dead and buried
i agree with Morgan, the problem with the other England players is they arnt wanted by the IPL they cant earn the mega bucks so it produces jealousy,
they need to get over themselves as does KP and do the best for the team, and KP being dropped is not the best thing its one of the worse things for an England team fighting to save a test series
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The issue is more important than winning a test match or saving a series. Insulting your team mates and manager is just unacceptable no matter how good a player you are. No one is denying him his king's ransom at IPL however you can not pick and choose when and what games you will play for your country. He should retire completely from representing his country if IPL is his priority.
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The issue is more important than winning a test match or saving a series. Insulting your team mates and manager is just unacceptable no matter how good a player you are. No one is denying him his king's ransom at IPL however you can not pick and choose when and what games you will play for your country. He should retire completely from representing his country if IPL is his priority.
I agree, insulting fellow players in your team is unacceptable, but KP did it privately (but stupidly) and is being punished whilst the england players who've been involved with the twitter parody of KP are being ignored. KP has criticised people and been punished but other players, in the same time frame, have done similar but been allowed to get away with him. I don't disagree KP is an arrogant fool who makes himself an easy target but a lot of the other players have got away with stuff that's nearly as bad.
For example there's a story on the beeb with Bresnan saying we might be a better team for it, there's no need for that in the slightest, and it's nonsense anyway, none of the palyers should be mentioning KP other than to say he's not available for this game and no further comment.
The UK press seem to like to setup people like KP to be comedy villians to mock them at every opportunity and it irks me. Yes KP is very full of himself, but that's part of why he's so good, he backs himself to win with all this arrogant bluster but time and again he's pulled it off and has won, and has dragged the rest of the team along in his wake.
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Alec Stewart reckons that Pietersen has now apologised, so I'm hoping this can all be moved past. Whilst I know Bresnan was trying to talk a good game today, it's nonsense to say we'd be a better team with Bairstow than Pietersen. Bairstow will be a very good player but he isn't in Pietersen's class as a batsmen at the moment.
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It appears , yet to be confirmed, that KP has apologised for his transgression and now will make himself available for England in all forms of international cricket. If so well done Kevin and pleased that you have recognised that you are not bigger than England.
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Alec Stewart reckons that Pietersen has now apologised, so I'm hoping this can all be moved past. Whilst I know Bresnan was trying to talk a good game today, it's nonsense to say we'd be a better team with Bairstow than Pietersen. Bairstow will be a very good player but he isn't in Pietersen's class as a batsmen at the moment.
Really not sure about Bairstow, he's like a rabbit in the headlights against fast bowling.
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Really not sure about Bairstow, he's like a rabbit in the headlights against fast bowling.
There was a good article in yesterday's Telegraph by my old rugby teammate Steve James regarding facing a classic SA pace attack
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/9473015/England-v-South-Africa-James-Taylor-is-well-prepared-for-the-special-feeling-of-being-a-Lords-player.html
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Right the ECB have confirmed they've received an apology from KP. Is this over now and he's available?
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Right the ECB have confirmed they've received an apology from KP. Is this over now and he's available?
Has KP now apologised direct to the ECB ?
Early this morning, Radio 5 were saying that he'd apologised thro' his agent.
Is the apology now direct ? It's not clear from the Beeb website
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Right the ECB have confirmed they've received an apology from KP. Is this over now and he's available?
Has KP now apologised direct to the ECB ?
Early this morning, Radio 5 were saying that he'd apologised thro' his agent.
Is the apology now direct ? It's not clear from the Beeb website
I read it that he'd apologised to the ECB but not to Flower, Strauss and the rest of his teamates.
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Right the ECB have confirmed they've received an apology from KP. Is this over now and he's available?
Has KP now apologised direct to the ECB ?
Early this morning, Radio 5 were saying that he'd apologised thro' his agent.
Is the apology now direct ? It's not clear from the Beeb website
According to SSN he has apologised himself. Strauss just interviewed and said there are still issues to resolve in the dressing room but should be done behind closed doors, understandably he's not too happy about the whole mess.
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Why do I get the horrible feeling that he'll be ushered back in but still get his original aim of picking and choosing games.
I hope Bairstow scores a ton.
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Strauss was very good in his Press conference. He is very clear about issues of mutual trust and respect and he expects that from KP and now it is up Pietersen to do that face to face and NOT via twitter, YouTube , text, pigeon, message in a bottle or any other indirect methods!
I do hope Strauss and Co put up a very good show this week without his Highness there.
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the England players ought to be more interested in putting the best team out to beat the South Africans rather than getting jealous because someones better than them therefore get to earn more money around the world.
Match Fixing, Drugs, they are unaceptable not a few daft txts sent to some mates, its pathetic really, the jealousy and pettiness in the England dressing room shows they dont deserve to remain the no 1's in world cricket
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I think he'll come back in once it's ironed out. I don't think there is a chance he'll be picking and choosing games, he'll be having to be very humble moving forward.
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a few daft txts sent to some mates, its pathetic really
A bit of "banter".
It's fair enough to treat a few texts sent to opponents as banter (hate the word but can't think of an alternative) but Pietersen seems incapable of accepting that the spoof tweets, which kicked off this whole situation, were also just a bit of banter. A bit of a piss take out of a player who takes himself far too seriously and who contacted lawyers to get the twitter account closed.
Can't have it both ways, KP, you arrogant shite-house.
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I think he'll come back in once it's ironed out. I don't think there is a chance he'll be picking and choosing games, he'll be having to be very humble moving forward.
He probably will then in 12 months time or so there will be another incident. I really hope the 11 picked tomorrow put in a "fuck you KP" performance. He's a great player but as Chico says he takes himself far too seriously.
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Yeah but there's also an element of hypocrisy here, Swann was critical of players in his book(KP included). That's a published book, and Pietersen is being dropped on the basis of some private texts. If you follow through that logical conclusion then Swann should have been punished too. I'm not excusing Pietersen's behaviour, but he is not the only one responsible in all this.
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Comparing Swann's book revelations with Pietersen's texts is chalk and cheese. Swann put it out in the public for all to see his point of view. Pietersen sent back stabbing underhanded snide remarks only to "a mate or two" who happened to be the opposition. Not the same.
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Comparing Swann's book revelations with Pietersen's texts is chalk and cheese. Swann put it out in the public for all to see his point of view. Pietersen sent back stabbing underhanded snide remarks only to "a mate or two" who happened to be the opposition. Not the same.
ECB gave the ok to Swann's book.Fault on all sides.
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Comparing Swann's book revelations with Pietersen's texts is chalk and cheese. Swann put it out in the public for all to see his point of view. Pietersen sent back stabbing underhanded snide remarks only to "a mate or two" who happened to be the opposition. Not the same.
But he was still slating his team mates, which whether it's a public or private view is not great for team harmony. I'm not saying I agree with the texts, but slating someone to a much larger audience is hardly admirable either.
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I agree that what Swann did and others do to sell books is deplorable.
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That's my biggest issue with it, other people have done things that are just as bad or worse but got away with it because they're 'one of the boys' whereas KP sets himself apart and takes the full hit.
He is annoyingly full of himself and not likeable but that doesn't deserve the shit he gets, especially considering he's one of the best batsmen we've ever had.
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Twenty20 squad deadline been put back until Friday 24th, which probably gives them enough time to sort out KP situation.
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That's my biggest issue with it, other people have done things that are just as bad or worse but got away with it because they're 'one of the boys' whereas KP sets himself apart and takes the full hit.
He is annoyingly full of himself and not likeable but that doesn't deserve the shit he gets, especially considering he's one of the best batsmen we've ever had.
Reading between the lines and from Strauss's interview yesterday I think there's more to this than the stuff that is in the public realm. There is no way they could go om a winter tour, where they're in each others pockets for weeks, without it being resolved.
It needs sorting and dropping him has forced the issue, he now needs to act like a man, not a spoilt kid, if he wants to get back into the squad.
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Mistake not to pick Finn for me. We need to hit them hard, and I don't think Bresnan offers enough in a 4 man attack.
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Correction BBC have it wrong and Bresnan is out and Finn is in, which is correct.
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Finn's playing, Swann for Bresnan. And "The Beast" Yohan Blake doing fine work with the bell...very posh in a whistle and flute, too.
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Finn should have been opening the bowling.
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That is why Finn has to play, two wickets in very quick succession and puts us in the game. We have to capitalise on this now.
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Finn is running through them Kallis is gone. We really need to rip through them today now. All the bowlers step up.
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After the events of this week that's the perfect response from England.
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Critical they finish the job here though and try and restrict South Africa to less than 200.
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Come on England lets get rid of De Villiers, Rudolph and Duminy quickly.
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That is why Finn has to play, two wickets in very quick succession and puts us in the game. We have to capitalise on this now.
Has been a couple of overs highlighting why he hasn't played. We need to build pressure on these 2 and make them fight for runs (they know they need to put a score on between them). Giving away cheap runs at the wrong time is the issue he's had ever since he broke through, he just needs to tighten up and bowl 'safe' for a few overs.
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Another bad over from Finn, he really lets himself down with these spells.
Edit to add context:
Finn before lunch
7 overs - 3 wickets - 18 runs - avg 2.57
Finn after lunch
5 overs - 0 wickets - 30 runs - avg 6 (25 of those runs in the last 3 overs)
The other bowlers averages (ignore swann as he's only had 2 overs) Broad 1.9 - Jimmy 2.57
Anything over 4 is too high in test cricket.
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Yes but conversely if he wasn't bowling they'd be one wicket down. I'd take some extra runs in exchange for those wickets. We need to get rid of these two now though, not let them build too much.
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Yes but conversely if he wasn't bowling they'd be one wicket down. I'd take some extra runs in exchange for those wickets. We need to get rid of these two now though, not let them build too much.
I don't disagree in the slightest. At his best Finn is world class and right up there with the best bowlers England have produced, but he needs to improve his game when he's not his best, if he can do that in the next year or 2 we'll have a bowler who could go on to be one of the all time great test bowlers, if he can't we'll have another Harmison, equal parts brilliant and infuriating.
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Big wicket from Jimmy, SA under massive pressure now.
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Huge wicket, pity we haven't got any reviews as well. Knock em over lads, less than 200.
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We need to get wickets here, they're fighting back strongly here. Broad and Swann step it up.
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We need to make something happen after tea. Swann hasn't done it for along time, it's about time he stepped up.
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Need to get rid of Rudolph soon, such a good player when he's in.
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terrible shot by rudolph, we can start think about batting soon, great day with the ball, haven't ever let them get a big partnership going.
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Don't speak to soon, there's still plenty to go through here. Philander is doing some real damage with Duminy.
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Bloody hell, in the air but safe.
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We need to get rid of these here, this is getting too much.
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The runs are flowing too much here, they're wrestling back the initiative.
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70 partnership, fucking hell. We have really badly let them off the hook here.
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New ball gets rid of Duminy. Terrible shot.
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Broad doesn't look particularly threatening again. I don't know why Finn doesn't bowl new ball.
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Broad's pace is consistently down. Finn should be bowling.
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262-7 end of play I have a horrible feeling we've missed our chance, hopefully I'm wrong. Broad with the exception of that 6 wickets in last test has been off this summer. He's got to be dangerously close to being dropped, his pace his down and he's not offering anything with the bat.
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your well named on this thread paul
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Paul's run of posts is much better than Broad's bowling! At least he is resilient.
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last week on the beach at Goodrington Sands, with a rubbish signal on my i phone,
PWA's posts on this thread were the only thing that let me know how we were getting on
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Ha yes, it's mainly venting!
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Has anyone got a link to the pic of Blowers and Alice ?
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We are getting clouted him, this lower order and really damaged our chances.
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309 all out, from the position we had them in probably 70 or 80 too much. However I suspect that is still a low score, we need to bat well and get a big lead.
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Great story from Aggers about Sir Geoffrey being introduced to Alice Cooper.
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Bloody hell Strauss gone in over before lunch.
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Trott gone, he's really lost his reliability. Our top order is failing again.
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This is the point where having a 4 who can take the game away from them on his own is valuable, shame he's been dropped for doing something when other players have got away with similar...
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Someone needs to step up here and get a big hundred, and we need several other significant contributions.
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Someone needs to step up here and get a big hundred, and we need several other significant contributions.
Well it ain't gonna be Cook !
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Pathetic from the top 3, absolutely shocking.
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Pathetic from the top 3, absolutely shocking.
It's very similar to yesterday morning, we need a similar fightback from the middle order.
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Except it's sunny at Lords today. Yes we need the middle order to fire big time.
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Good 50 Bairstow, now need to continue on.
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How many more overs left in the day?
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About 18 now. Good 50 Bell, keep going.
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Really Hope Bairstow pushes on, it might help shut up all this bullshit about Bradman 2.
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How many more overs left in the day?
Around 17 (as at 5.25 pm and 165-4) I shan't say what I'm hoping for for fear of putting the jinx on
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Say what you like about Pietersen the character, but I don't think anyone can debate he is a world class batsman.
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Say what you like about Pietersen the character, but I don't think anyone can debate he is a world class batsman.
Not in doubt at all Paul on his day...............
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This is the point where having a 4 who can take the game away from them on his own is valuable, shame he's been dropped for doing something when other players have got away with similar...
Who else has been texting there mates in the SA team then slagging off Strauss & Flower.....
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Well played Bell, but terrible time to get out.
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How many more overs left in the day?
Around 17 (as at 5.25 pm and 165-4) I shan't say what I'm hoping for for fear of putting the jinx on
Oh bugger, I put the jinx on by even thinking about it.......
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This is the point where having a 4 who can take the game away from them on his own is valuable, shame he's been dropped for doing something when other players have got away with similar...
Who else has been texting there mates in the SA team then slagging off Strauss & Flower.....
What part of similar is hard to understand?
The main point of reference is Swann writing similar things in a book that he published whilst a player. but then everyone in the team likes Swann, so that was banter.
Or how about following a twitter account made purely to make KP look like an idiot, oh no, that's just banter because KP was the target.
As for the reference about KP being great on his day, he has as many bad days as any other world class batsman. The difference is that, because KP is very positive in his approach it's easy to say he's given it away, whereas people like Strauss get out playing sensibly and are unlucky, or haven't picked the delivery.
The problem is that KP has the sort of personality that makes him a target, and everyone enjoys taking shots at him.
On topic, fair play to Bairstow, with his record so far, coming in at that point and getting a score is a big psign that he's got the mental toughness to make it.
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This is the point where having a 4 who can take the game away from them on his own is valuable, shame he's been dropped for doing something when other players have got away with similar...
Who else has been texting there mates in the SA team then slagging off Strauss & Flower.....
What part of similar is hard to understand?
The main point of reference is Swann writing similar things in a book that he published whilst a player. but then everyone in the team likes Swann, so that was banter.
Or how about following a twitter account made purely to make KP look like an idiot, oh no, that's just banter because KP was the target.
As for the reference about KP being great on his day, he has as many bad days as any other world class batsman. The difference is that, because KP is very positive in his approach it's easy to say he's given it away, whereas people like Strauss get out playing sensibly and are unlucky, or haven't picked the delivery.
The problem is that KP has the sort of personality that makes him a target, and everyone enjoys taking shots at him.
On topic, fair play to Bairstow, with his record so far, coming in at that point and getting a score is a big psign that he's got the mental toughness to make it.
Mate there is a world of difference between writing a book that is in the public domain and sneakily texting ur buddies in a team that you are playing against currently its about as similar as black and white
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I'd say the book is arguably worse. You're slating a team mate you're currently playing with to in theory the entire world and making money off it.
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I'd say the book is arguably worse. You're slating a team mate you're currently playing with to in theory the entire world and making money off it.
Well I wouldnt but there we go........life goes on
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Excellent day's cricket, well done Bairstow and Bell. Piss poor from our top order again though. Pity it's only a 3 test series. I have no faith in Broad and Swann to do a job at the moment, so Bairstow and Prior are going to have do a cracking job.
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Philander showed how lower order batsmen should play on this pitch, but Broad and Swann don't seem overly capable of that currently. Hope I'm wrong.
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We need to get level @ least dont we Paul...........
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At the very last, but we need to go beyond really.
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I'd say the book is arguably worse. You're slating a team mate you're currently playing with to in theory the entire world and making money off it.
Well I wouldnt but there we go........life goes on
cant believe you think a few private pisstake txt mesages are all that important, but hey life goes on
as Chris Smith said earlier, there is far more to it than those txt messages,
from the comments of the players after he was dropped, he is quite clearly disliked among his colleagues even dispised by some,
and there is no way its just about txting, even if you think it makes his position untenable, i would say he is probably insufferable at times and txt thing is just being used to put him in his place.
if he has been dropped because of the txting, then thats as pathetic as you are going to get ,
but in my view it goes far deeper, maybe we will never know, but the fact he can pick upwards of 2 mill euros in the IPL will have a affect on him and his teamates, far more than a few dodgy txts, which in my view is just a smokescreen
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Well, we are still in the game, but can't help thinking we've missed a golden opportunity on a flat pitch.
Cooks shot was probably as poor as he's played in test cricket, and Trott got out to a poor ball which he should have dispatched to the fence.
Strauss's was pretty ordinary also. Say what you like about the ball, but test batsmen should not be bowled middle stump.
Bell played nicely and Prior looks in good nick. Must say though, Bairstow really really impressive. Came in during a collapse to face hostile short bowling and played it with ease. His temperament cannot be in question now.
As for the match situation its pretty even at the moment, slightly favoring SA as the have the new ball coming up. If Bairstow and Prior can stick around we'll put them under real pressure though, as they score quickly naturally.
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1st delivery with the new ball.
Are you taking the piss prior?
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Another brilliant collapse.
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Gutted Jonny Bairstow didn't get a century, he batted brilliantly. Had to turn TMS off,Blofeld really should be retired, he offers absolutely nothing to the brilliant insight and commentary.
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Well I think we're in big trouble here, the bowlers not doing a great deal.
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South Africa 309 and 42/0; England 315... draw me thinks
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Drop by Prior, but Petersen gone two balls later.
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Chances gone now I reckon.
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I have a feeling Finn rapping Steyn on the hand might be the most important thing that happened today. He looked in a lot of pain after that, if it's a nasty one and effects his bowling (or stops him bowling completely) we could benefit hugely.
Getting Kallis late in the day was important, we had to break that partnership up, hopefully we can get Amla early tomorrow. Anything up to 300 as the chase and we'll be happy.
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I think SA will grind us into the ground to day.
Upside down head Amla will get a ton.
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Bad drop at slip by Anderson. I can see the sun setting.
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SA getting an obscene amount of luck at the moment.
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At last.
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No wonder he was dropped
KP out for a Golden Duck
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/19300365
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Finns a class act. Why the hell he wasn't playing in the 1st test is anyone's guess.
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Finn is super bowler and should always get the new ball.
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The attention the BBC live stream and tms are giving to KP getting a duck is a bit pathetic.
Aside from that, fairly interesting situation in the game, we need to bowl them fairly cheaply and quickly so it doesn't go away from us, I'd say no team has ever really managed to get ahead in this one, SA might if they can get another 50-60 on the board though.
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Essentially our bowling attack looks useless without Finn. The chance is gone now.
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Aggers and Tuffers are the best double-act on the radio
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345 to win, tough but possible. Our top order has to actually turn up.
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Brilliant start yet again.
Getting fed up with our top order showing no application or guts.
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Not a chance in hell of getting that.
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Pathetic from Cook, really fucking awful.
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We'll struggle to make 200 on what is still a very flat pitch.
There's just no character in our batsman at present.
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Our top order failing yet again.
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In fact, i'll be amazed if we make 200.
Strauss is out of sorts, Trott is starting to go through his first ever bad patch and the dwarf at 5 is largely inexperienced. Bell might produce something but it's a big ask to expect Bairstow to deliver again.
South Africa deserve it.
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9 wickets to go. How many batsmen will get out to bad shots, not actually being got out?
I'll go for 7.
I think thats actually being generous to our batsmen in fairness.
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In fact, i'll be amazed if we make 200.
Strauss is out of sorts, Trott is starting to go through his first ever bad patch and the dwarf at 5 is largely inexperienced. Bell might produce something but it's a big ask to expect Bairstow to deliver again.
South Africa deserve it.
I think we deserve to lose is the more pertinent point.
I don't think SA have played especially well here. We've been woefully below par all series.
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Yeah other than Finn's bowling our bowlers have been poor overall and I maintain Swann has been poor for a year now.
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Yeah other than Finn's bowling our bowlers have been poor overall and I maintain Swann has been poor for a year now.
Swann's standards have dropped, Broad isn't right too and the hope that his batting would improve has evaporated.
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Good leave that Strauss.
This is incredibly poor. I think the time has come for him to hang up his International boots.
He may be a good captain, but he isn't up to test standard as a batsmen any more.
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Swann and Broad have been desperately poor. Strauss gone, good effort Andrew. With the exception of one century our opening pair have been awful this series.
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The only surprise is that Morkel didn't bag Strauss.
He's been his bitch for some time.
I agree that it's maybe time for Strauss to move on.
All down to Trott and Bell now, with Tom Thumb and Bairstow to follow.
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Compare the South African batsmen who never look like getting out unless the bowling is top notch. Since we got to top of the rankings I'd be curious to know what are the averages of our top order, because they have consistently failed.
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Compare the South African batsmen who never look like getting out unless the bowling is top notch. Since we got to top of the rankings I'd be curious to know what are the averages of our top order, because they have consistently failed.
Thats just it though. Our batsmen up until the start of the series against Pakistan never looked like getting out, it took great bowling. They seem to have just abandoned the working philosophy of grinding attacks into the ground and then increasing the rate as the innings progressed.
You're right about the South African batsmen, you could comfortably count on one hand (without thumb or index finger) the amount of times they've got out to a bad shot in this series, whereas for our batsmen you'd need a calculator.
To be honest, as much good that Flower as done, and hes done a lot of good, he has to take a fair share of criticism for our shocking form over the last year. I never thought that he'd allow complacency to set it, but it clearly has. This will be our 6th loss in 10 matches, which for a side with as many good cricketers as it has is completely unacceptable. Hopefully Flower and co can sort it out.
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Or perhaps we're just running into better attacks. Pakistan's strength in their bowling with Ajmal whose a top class spin bowler who causes most players problems while this SA attack is the best they've put out post apartheid. I think we just dined out on ordinary attacks for a while like Australia and india.
South Africa have been the better team in this series and fully deserve it but we are still a good team with a very good bowling attack - I honestly don't think there's much to choose between these two attacks, maybe we have the upper hand in the spin department and I think if it's swinging we have the edge but if it's flat Philander is their trump card as he's a terrific wicket to wicket bowler who gets good players out. "
The difference with these two attacks to others in world Cricket is that these two come at you all the time. England's only one real shocker for the last few years being that 1st Test at the Oval where SA batted superbly.
We've created opportunities to win this Test but needed to survive until stumps entact to give ourselves a chance. Those last two wickets have done for us. It would be an amazing win if we can chase these down now against an attack of this quality.
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Good leave that Strauss.
This is incredibly poor. I think the time has come for him to hang up his International boots.
He may be a good captain, but he isn't up to test standard as a batsmen any more.
And replace him with who?
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Good leave that Strauss.
This is incredibly poor. I think the time has come for him to hang up his International boots.
He may be a good captain, but he isn't up to test standard as a batsmen any more.
And replace him with who?
I think Strauss will hang on for another year, then hopefully Taylor could replace him.
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Yes, i'd be very surprised if Strauss moves on before the back to back Ashes Series next year. In his mind, he'll want to sign off as Skipper and Test batsman after those two having won another two Ashes series. There was an interview with Ponting this week and he said next years Ashes series are his single motivation to keep playing and training.
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So Vaughny has a mate who has come to Lords from "Chiren-chester" in the Cotswolds :D
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Blowers was wondering earlier if Strauss might quit after today.
It wasn't clear if he has an inside scoop of just babbling
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Trott truly is a nightmare when it comes to running.
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Regarding Strauss, I don't want to overreact but I think there is a case for saying that he should relinquish the captaincy. It seems that all is not well in the England camp and that it could be the right time for a change in leadership. Cook would be the obvious replacement, as he has done a decent job with the ODI side.
As for this series, I think the real turning point was our first innings at the Oval. We went from being in a commanding position at 251-2 to 385 all out in a pretty short space of time and have been on the back foot since then.
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At least Bairstow had a good match.
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Good leave that Strauss.
This is incredibly poor. I think the time has come for him to hang up his International boots.
He may be a good captain, but he isn't up to test standard as a batsmen any more.
And replace him with who?
Blood someone like Hales, who has a lot of talent.
Strauss Is still a very Good captain, but his form over the last couple of years with the bay isn't up to scratch.
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Or perhaps we're just running into better attacks. Pakistan's strength in their bowling with Ajmal whose a top class spin bowler who causes most players problems while this SA attack is the best they've put out post apartheid. I think we just dined out on ordinary attacks for a while like Australia and india.
South Africa have been the better team in this series and fully deserve it but we are still a good team with a very good bowling attack - I honestly don't think there's much to choose between these two attacks, maybe we have the upper hand in the spin department and I think if it's swinging we have the edge but if it's flat Philander is their trump card as he's a terrific wicket to wicket bowler who gets good players out. "
The difference with these two attacks to others in world Cricket is that these two come at you all the time. England's only one real shocker for the last few years being that 1st Test at the Oval where SA batted superbly.
We've created opportunities to win this Test but needed to survive until stumps entact to give ourselves a chance. Those last two wickets have done for us. It would be an amazing win if we can chase these down now against an attack of this quality.
The quality of the SA attack is what makes the way a lot of the batsman get out more annoying. There just seems to be a lack of will to apply themselves.
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Good leave that Strauss.
This is incredibly poor. I think the time has come for him to hang up his International boots.
He may be a good captain, but he isn't up to test standard as a batsmen any more.
And replace him with who?
Blood someone like Hales, who has a lot of talent.
Strauss Is still a very Good captain, but his form over the last couple of years with the bay isn't up to scratch.
My only concern with blooding a new player is that the next series is in India, which is about as demanding as it gets at test level. One option could be to move Trott up to opener, but then he would have to be replaced at number 3. I don't think Strauss should be dropped just yet, but it might be time to relieve him of the burden of the captaincy and allow him to concentrate on his game.
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The big difference is that our players get between 50-70 quite a lot and then get out, but the South Africans go on to make hundreds and big hundreds.
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Also if we'd caught our catches this game would have been very winnable.
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This is so frustrating, if more of the top order had got runs in this match we could have won this.
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catches win matches, they take theirs.... we spill ours...
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9 catches down this series.Take half of that you are in with a chance.
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We couldn't could we?
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91 runs required when i last checked with Prior and Swann at the crease and we know they can both bat. Interesting finish.
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We couldn't could we?
If we don't, it's your fault for even thinking about it
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new ball in 3 or so overs..........get the runs down to 50 and no more wickets down.....and then just maybe..
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new ball in 3 or so overs..........get the runs down to 50 and no more wickets down.....and then just maybe..
Forgot about the new ball.
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They are going to win!
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tough ask for Anderson and Finn to make 60 or so between them....
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You gonna blame me arn't you.
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You gonna blame me arn't you.
Yup
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What a bonkers day's cricket.
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Fantastic stuff
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Feel we might have missed a trick by not bringing in Finn before Anderson. We know Jimmy can block fairly well, but Finn is capable of playing a few shots and hitting boundaries. Any momentum we had seems to have gone at the moment.
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No need to rush though. They need like 53 runs to win from like a minimum of 123 balls. patience is the key from now
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Well South Africa proved they deserve to be the No.1 team in the world after winning in England 0-2. Good game though.
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Good Test and South Africa deserve to win, they've been the better side across the series. This has been a chastening experience and the final exclamation point on a really poor 6 months of Test cricket for England. Our top order has more than often failed, and in this series our bowling attack has looked pretty poor. Cook got a century when South Africa bowled poorly and then got fuck all for the rest of the series, Strauss got fuck all for the entire series. Trott got a couple of scores but nothing remarkable and failed a lot. If your top 3 consistently fail, which more often than not they have over the last 6 months you're going to struggle.
There needs to be some firm analysis and reevaluation of the side and they need to be brutally honest. There are big question marks over Strauss, Pietersen(for different reasons), Broad, Bresnan and Swann and all need to massively improve. The fielding also needs to be sorted out, dropping so many catches is unforgivable.
On the positive side Prior, Finn and Bairstow enhanced their reputation. Prior consistently got runs and overall his glove work was good. Finn was the one bowler who looked like he could go through the South Africans and should have played the first game as well. Bairstow showed he could cope with the best attack around and he'll be a top player.
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It's been a disappointing 12 months for the test side. We've really struggled.
I’ve been thinking about this and trying to decipher what has gone wrong.
The obvious choice is complacency. This seems to be a malaise that affects top-level English sport after they’ve achieved their stated goal. Think Rugby World Cup 2003, Ashes 2005. Those sides were great but once they’d reached that pinnacle they never again achieved the same level of performance. We don’t seem to be capable of building a sustained period of dominance that the Aussies did in Cricket.
The other thought that I had was about how important the number one test status actually is. I got more pleasure from winning back to back Ashes series than I did from England achieving the number one test status. This could conceivably smack of sour grapes; when we’re poor at one-day level we claim test cricket is more important. Now we’ve the number one status then the Ashes are more important.
So come on fellow cricket fans, and without sounding like a nose (we don’t care if we go down as long as we beat the Villa), what is more important Number One test Status or winning the Ashes?
Ashes for me and the grapes taste very sour today
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I'm not sure they're mutually exclusive, both are important to me. Winning the Ashes should also give us the boost towards the number 1 ranking. However that ranking only has value if you're consistently winning whilst your number 1. The only time I felt like we were number 1 was when we beat India, since then we've lost too much to legitimately be considered the best Test side.
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The number one status is taken from results over a 3 year period so is always going to be difficult to maintain. It's disappointing that England have lost it but if it was an easy target to achieve then it wouldn't count for much. Test cricket is healthier if it changes regularly rather than one country dominate for years.
I reckon an Ashes win probably just edges it as it's more memorable but as a measure of the strength of the side then the overall rankings is the one.
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It's been a disappointing 12 months for the test side. We've really struggled.
I’ve been thinking about this and trying to decipher what has gone wrong.
The obvious choice is complacency. This seems to be a malaise that affects top-level English sport after they’ve achieved their stated goal. Think Rugby World Cup 2003, Ashes 2005. Those sides were great but once they’d reached that pinnacle they never again achieved the same level of performance. We don’t seem to be capable of building a sustained period of dominance that the Aussies did in Cricket.
The other thought that I had was about how important the number one test status actually is. I got more pleasure from winning back to back Ashes series than I did from England achieving the number one test status. This could conceivably smack of sour grapes; when we’re poor at one-day level we claim test cricket is more important. Now we’ve the number one status then the Ashes are more important.
So come on fellow cricket fans, and without sounding like a nose (we don’t care if we go down as long as we beat the Villa), what is more important Number One test Status or winning the Ashes?
Ashes for me and the grapes taste very sour today
First thing, the problem with the rugby world cup side is nothing to do with complacency, it was to do with the fact that it was a last big effort for a lot of the players involved. Of the 22 involved in the final only about 8-9 were involved in the 6nations 5 months later. That level of loss from any side is going to result in a slump.
I agree this is the problem in the cricket though. Trott and Cook were awesome for 18months but now they've been average for the last 12. Strauss has been poor for the majority of that time. KP is what he is, a great talent but takes a lot of effort to manage and can be infuriating. Bell has been consistently good and is probably our best batsman, then 6 has been a nightmare for a while. Even the last year of Collingwood was poor and we're yet to find a consistent replacement. Bairstow has the talent but needs time. Finally Prior has been good.
So in effect 2 good batsmen in the top 7 and then a mixture or poor form and inconsistency in the other spots.
In the field we've been a lot weaker than we were in winning the ashes.
With the ball Swann has struggled, Broad and Finn have quality but are inconsistent, Bresnan is consistant but lacks a bit of quality and Jimmy has been generally good but hasn't taken the wickets he probably deserves, however we've generally had 1 or 2 turn up in each match and there have been few matches where failing with the ball has cost us (SA first test and maybe the first against pakistan are the only ones I can think of where we failed as a unit).
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Why isn't Philander in the South Africa ODI squad ?
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absolute shocker of a shot from cook, the ball was decent but you shouldn't be out to a full straight one like that.
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It's a bit of a concern, that technical flaw in Cook's game where he falls across his stumps has returned this summer and he needs to sort it. Also Trott continues to be poor.
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The opposite of the Test side, nowhere near enough batting.
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Very poor and symptomatic of England at the moment, well below the acceptable level. South Africa are a hungry, motivated and better side.
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33 of the last two overs! Where was this an hour ago?
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Good fun by the last two, but need to bat much better. Cook seems to have developed a bit of a South African accent.
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wickets of cook and bopara were really poor, cook beaten by a full straight one and bopara lobbed one straight at the fielder when he should've been picking his spot for four.
Was a shame for Bell to go out when he did, he was the key player for us and just got done by one that turned just enough off the pitch.
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It appears that Strauss will resign today. If he does it will be a shame and English and world cricket will be poorer for it. A great batsman, very good captain and a dignified man. Good luck for the future Andrew.
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That'd be a surprise, I'd rather he didn't.
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It appears that Strauss will resign today. If he does it will be a shame and English and world cricket will be poorer for it. A great batsman, very good captain and a dignified man. Good luck for the future Andrew.
yes i agree with you.
i didnt think he would make much of a captain at first, was proved totally wrong and and has gone on to be one of the best
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If he resigns as captain which looks likely I hope he continues for another year as a player. Also I hope whichever way it goes this KP business is resolved so we can move forward.
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I can't see the point in keeping him on for another year. He simply doesn't score enough and he constantly gives his wicket away when he's in. I can't really think of a replacement apart from moving Trott up and bringing KP back in.
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If he's going, and it looks like he is, then at least he's doing it at the right time. Plenty of time for Cook (I assume) to take up the reins and get ready for India.
Shame if he's completely retiring from Test cricket though, I think he could still have a part to play if he can correct that bloody front foot problem he's got.
New opener needed then, reckon Trotty can step up?
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The problem with Strauss is that he's a far better captain than he is a batsman at the minute.
If he gives up the captaincy he probably doesn't deserve a place on the strength of his batting.
I'd like to see Bell higher up the order, but probably not opening so maybe trott up to opener and Bell in at 3.
Means inexperience at 5 and 6 though
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I reckon Trott needs to sort out his form in his current position before considering him for opener. He has quite badly dipped this year. I hope Strauss stays on, because there is no obvious candidate for opener and his batting might pick up without the captaincy stress.
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I reckon Trott needs to sort out his form in his current position before considering him for opener. He has quite badly dipped this year. I hope Strauss stays on, because there is no obvious candidate for opener and his batting might pick up without the captaincy stress.
I agree, I said maybe move him up for 2 reasons, 1. his form isn't great himself and 2. I really don't like the idea of inexperience at 5 and 6.
it's a really tough call with Strauss, it's very hard to justify picking him as a batsman, whereas picking him as captain is easy. I'm also a little worried that it's a bit too soon for Cook to take over, I'd like another year of Cook leading the 1day team first.
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Maybe his form will pick up again without the burden of captaincy? It's happened with others. But then again it could completely drop off like it did for Michael Vaughan who was a far more gifted batsman. I think Cook will be fine as captain.
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He's retired from proffessional cricket, thanks for your service Andrew you've been a credit as a player and a person.
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He's retired from proffessional cricket, thanks for your service Andrew you've been a credit as a player and a person.
Wow, I wasn't expecting Strauss to quit cold-turkey like that.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/19408311
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We need a real rebuild now. I'm confident Cook can succeed as captain, but he needs to find his form again. The whole team, whether it's with or without KP, needs to find its hunger and desire and fight. Broad, Swann and Trott will all be under the microscope in terms of form and need to up their game, more so with the former two.
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That's the third England captain that Graeme Smith has seen off...
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England players with most games as captain
PLAYER DATES MATCHES AVERAGE 100
MA Atherton 1993-2001 54 40.58 8
MP Vaughan 2003-2008 51 36.02 9
AJ Strauss 2006-2012 50 40.76 9
N Hussain 1999-2003 45 36.04 5
PBH May 1955-1961 41 54.03 10
GA Gooch 1988-1993 34 58.72 11
DI Gower 1982-1989 32 43.59 6
JM Brearley 1977-1981 31 22.48 0
R Illingworth 1969-1973 31 28.62 2
ER Dexter 1961-1964 30 53.93 4
I know that more Tests are played these days but it surprises me that Brearley was captain for only 31 matches. As a kid, it seemed to me that he'd been captain forever.
The table also highlights that he really wasn't a very good player at Test level. Ray Illingworth had a better batting average and he was a bowler.
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The selection for the India tour in November will be interesting. Taylor and Bairstow will be automatic inclusions but who will step up as opener?
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How long can Carberry stay fit? Joe Root opens for the Lions so I guess he's next off the conveyor belt.
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How long can Carberry stay fit? Joe Root opens for the Lions so I guess he's next off the conveyor belt.
I think that Carberry is too old now, he's 32 next month. Add to that his injury record and he seems to rule himself out. I'm sure that I read somewhere that the blood clot that he suffered in his lungs a couple of years ago means that he can't fly long haul.
Root looks a good batsman and he's worth a go. Chopra may warrant a look too.
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Joe Root will be a very good player.
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Joe Root will be a very good player.
Joe Root is a very good player. Yorkshire need him more than England at the moment though.
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They can take Bresnan back... :op
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Strauss is 16/1 to replace Louise Mensche as the Tory candidate in the Corby by election....
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Joe Root will be a very good player.
I would go with that and he can bowl some off spin and India wouldnt be a bad place to start your career as a opener its either that or promote Trott and bring in Nick Compton IMO
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Swann 'rested' again, after only recently being rested from a one day series. I'm wondering whether his elbow problem is potentially curtailing his career.
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I'd still stick Trotty in as opener in India and maybe move Bell up to three. Unfortunately that might mean Taylor, Bairstow and Root as a very inexperienced middle order (if Pietersen doesn't come back), but we have to blood these rookies at some point and I'd rather do it against India than expect them to play back-to-back Ashes series without much experience.
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If they bring Root in it'll be as opener I think. India is actually a very good place to be debuted as an opener.
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If they bring Root in it'll be as opener I think. India is actually a very good place to be debuted as an opener.
Fair point.
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Good bowling performance, we should win this.
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Trott really needs to get some runs here.
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Fucking hell Cook, I know it's a low total but you shouldn't really be taking more than 14 deliveries to get off the mark in an ODI.
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Not a good innings Cook, 20 from 47.
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Oh dear Ravi.
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Well done Trotty and Morgan, good effort boys.
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Nice and easy win set up by a combination of good bowling and some strange batting from the Sarfers.
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Very poor from England in the field so far 2 pretty easy chances dropped by Tredwell and a quite ridiculous waste of a review
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For fucks sake, right that's it the next person who drops a catch should be dropped from the team.
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Good bowling from Bopara, im not his biggest fan but his bowling in the past 2 games has been very good
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Good bowling from Tredwell
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Yep it's been good in last few overs.
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If Tredwell can bowl like this he should be pushing Swann's Test place.
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If Tredwell can bowl like this he should be pushing Swann's Test place.
Spot on............
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A few too many runs at the end but a good display with the ball.
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Cook goes LBW, that falling across his stumps technical flaw is back in force.
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Trott and Bell are battling well here.
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Excellent batting display, Bell superb and courageous from Trotty and a nice little cameo from Kies at the end. Morgan might be back in around the Test side now he's back to form.
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Excellent batting display, Bell superb and courageous from Trotty and a nice little cameo from Kies at the end. Morgan might be back in around the Test side now he's back to form.
Agree with that Paul. If (and it remains a very big if) KP returns to the fold, I would go for a top six line up of Cook, Trott, KP, Bairstow, Bell, Morgan. The fact we go to India next may work against him, as Samit Patel could come in to contention as a second spinner.
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Excellent batting display, Bell superb and courageous from Trotty and a nice little cameo from Kies at the end. Morgan might be back in around the Test side now he's back to form.
Agree with that Paul. If (and it remains a very big if) KP returns to the fold, I would go for a top six line up of Cook, Trott, KP, Bairstow, Bell, Morgan. The fact we go to India next may work against him, as Samit Patel could come in to contention as a second spinner.
Taylor is our long term 6 for me. he's a genuine replacement for collingwood in that he's a steadying hand in the middle order and he's an excellent fielder (Morgan, Bairstow, Bopara, etc are all very average in the field, it's no suprise that our fielding has weakened since Colly retired). I think morgan and bairstow are competing for the spot left by KP if he doesn't come back or the spot left by Bell if he moves up the order.
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Somerset wicket keeper Joss Buttler is the man who will replace Trott.
I half hope he does badly so I can shout in a Blakey voice
'I 'ate you Buttler.'
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Time for Bopara to go.
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Bairstow did not play particularly smart cricket there. Then Morgan out straight away, what a bloody disaster.
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By the sounds of it, Morgan's shot was equally stupid.
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This is a truly shocking batting display.
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Time for Bopara to go.
I've never understood why the selectors keep bringing Bopara back
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/10582.html
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In fairness every single top order batsmen here other than Bell has got out to a dodgy shot, very poor.
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I've never understood why the selectors keep bringing Bopara back
He's been possibly our best bowler in the last couple of matches.
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I've never understood why the selectors keep bringing Bopara back
He's been possibly our best bowler in the last couple of matches.
That's probably true, but he can't bat at 3 or 4 playing like he is.
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Good luck Woakesy, you're going to need about 70 or 80.
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Thing that concerns me is people mentioning Patel for number 6 in India. I just don't see it, he's not a good enough bat and he's not a good enough bowler. He's a bits and pieces cricketer, and maybe useful in Twenty20 but that's about it.
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Woakes did well but overall a piss poor batting display.
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I think this performance sums up our year overall, sloppy and very poor.
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KP not awarded a 2012/2013 central contract.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/581361.html
Whilst they can award a contract at any time it does look like Cook has decided not to include him. Reports last weekend suggested that Flower & Pietersen were due to meet to resolve the matter. Assuming they did meet then clearly things haven't been sorted out. I think we've seen the last of KP in an England team.
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I think it's still ongoing with KP. I think the interesting one is Morgan, that suggests they're looking at him for Tests again.
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Its beyond me how Bopara gets a game ahead of Luke Wright
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Dreadful performance. I have nothing against Bopara, but he is nowhere near good enough at the moment and playing him is doing England and him no favours. That said other than Kies the batting was piss poor today in general.
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Taken from Crickinfo...........
Kevin Pietersen has pressed England to carry out a serious investigation into his suspicion that his England team mates Graeme Swann and James Anderson were feeding information to the parody Twitter account - KP Genius - in a prolonged stalemate that continues to dog attempts to reintegrate him into the England team.
Pietersen has made an England investigation a central part of any rapprochement with England. Initial meetings with the England coach, Andy Flower, a week ago failed to find immediate common ground for a resumption of his international career.
Selectors are due to announce in the next few days the Test squad to tour India. He was also not named in England's list of central contracts for 2012 although it was indicated that other names could be added.
The account, which suggested Pietersen was vainglorious and obsessed by money, was followed by several members of the team and, at times, even elicited a good-humoured response from Pietersen before his attitude abruptly changed as his relationships with the ECB and his England team mates deteriorated.
Richard Bailey, a cricket lover who shares a house with a couple of members of the Nottinghamshire team and is a friend of England's T20 captain Stuart Broad, had admitted he was behind the account and insists no-one else was involved.
Broad has denied any involvement or knowledge of the account and it has subsequently been discontinued. An ESPNcricinfo investigation also exonerated Broad and suggested that Bailey was the only person responsible.
But Pietersen remains convinced that other England players were involved - and he has made his feelings clear. If he is to reach what he views as a fair compromise with his reputation intact and with an admission of faults on both sides then it seems that he is not prepared to let this matter rest. Whether a dressing room could knit together again after such a lengthy dispute is questionable.
Specifically he feels that the contents of private conversations between him, Anderson and Swann were referenced in various tweets. As a consequence, Pietersen feels he has been the victim of double standards after being disciplined for sending private messages to members of the South Africa touring party that contained derogatory comments about recently retired England Test captain Andrew Strauss.
ESPNcricinfo is not aware that Pietersen has provided definite proof that either Swann or Anderson were directly involved.
The episode is a headache that will not go away for Flower. Coming days before England depart for Sri Lanka in an attempt to defend their World T20 title and days before they name their Test squad for the tour of India, it is a distraction that he and the players could well do without. If Pietersen has hard evidence to support his views - and it is hard to see how he does - then the results could be devastating.
With both sides apparently too entrenched in their views to accept an amnesty, it is also hard to see a happy ending to a saga that continues to damage the individuals and the England team.
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Well it seems unlikely that there will be any compromise based on that. However I still think that Anderson and Swann shouldn't have been involved with this.
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This is the best two overs I've seen Swann bowl in a while and what a catch.
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Shocking over Broad.
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Shouldn't be in the team never mind being bloody captain.
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Kies had a bit of a mare there.
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I don't know what it is, but I just don't really rate Hales. I know he got that 99, but there's just something about him that I can't put my finger on.
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Well it seems unlikely that there will be any compromise based on that. However I still think that Anderson and Swann shouldn't have been involved with this.
I don't see how Kevin or anyone else can form an opinion that Anderson and Swann were involved. It appears that KP is determined to drag as many people as can into this so he can muddy the waters enough to save himself. He is really clutching at straws. If truth is on his side why doesn't he take the initiative and convene a meeting between himself and the other two, a private get together, that can lead to an agreed outcome rather than asking for investigations and enquiries.
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Its beyond me how Bopara gets a game ahead of Luke Wright
It's behind me as to Bopara is an international cricketer and playing for a top world ranking team!
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On an aside great to see Yuvraj back playing.
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Yes great recovery for Yuvraj. Lets hope he continues to get fitter and stronger.
At Edgbaston tomorrow for the Twenty/20. Hoping for a dry night.
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Its beyond me how Bopara gets a game ahead of Luke Wright
It's behind me as to Bopara is an international cricketer and playing for a top world ranking team!
The problem is he's great at county level, he's ramprakash/hick all over again, too talented for county cricket, not mentally strong enough for international cricket. I think this summer should be the last chance though, he's had enough time and chances now and has never progressed from a guy who looks amazed to be out there.
The biggest problem with him is, no matter how well he's playing or what score is on the board he's always 1 shot away from a rank lob to a fielder that a club player would be upset with, the worse the delivery the higher the chance as well.
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Christ that's the widest wide I've ever seen!
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Two lovely shots from Kies.
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I don't rate Luke Wright, I never really have.
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I don't rate Luke Wright, I never really have.
Same here.
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I don't rate Luke Wright, I never really have.
If it's a choice between him and Bopara though...
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Too many glory shots again.
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It always amazes me that people want Kies out of the side, he's regularly our best batsmen in Twenty20.
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Great from Kies and Buttler.
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Great over so far.
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Fucking hell Buttler has gone nuts!
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Fantastic.
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Buttler 31off 9 balls.
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Great Knock.
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Great 50 Kies well played.
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We have a chance,hope Broad has cramped up on the bench and can't bowl.
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Broad getting the treatment.
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I could watch Amla bat all day long.
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Briggs has to play ahead of Patel
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Briggs has to play ahead of Patel
Patel is fatter than me!
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Briggs has to play ahead of Patel
You could probably pick players out of Birmingham league who are fitter and would be more successful than Patel
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Kies and Buttler were magnificent and we can win the World cup if we play like this. Also brilliant bowling from Dernbach, Bres and Swann. Fielding back up at a high level again.
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A very cold evening at Edgbaston. When we got there I thought this was going to be another unlucky washed out match for WCCC but in the end 11/11was played. It was a measured start by England going at about 9 an over till Buttler decided to take on Parnell. That was a superb interlude which as it happened was the match difference. Never heard of this fellow before but he does hit the ball. Talking of players I have not heard of Briggs was another surprise. I was well impressed by his bowling spell. Enjoyed the sheer cass of Amla that stood head and beard above everything else. Looking forward to start f the WC twenty20 next week now.
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Was just about to post something very similar aftab235. We were really p**ded off with the delay due to the weather but decided after the game we wouldn't have seen such a display had it been a full 20 over game.
Butler? What a hero.
Really enjoyed the evening but how the devil could it get so damn cold? I'm still trying to warm up.
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The first Six of Buttler's epic over was probably the sweetest struck ball I've ever seen.
The over starts at about 2:15
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last night was a first for me, my 11 yeard old went with his mate and dad and this is the first time i have waited up for him to come home, got in at 11.45 and was a very tired boy. Even more tired this morning trudging off to school!
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The first Six of Buttler's epic over was probably the sweetest struck ball I've ever seen.
Funny you should say that because in that over the way he just stood there and dispatched the ball over the boundary I thought of Viv Richards.
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Twenty20 starts today and the squad for India will be announced. I have a feeling Morgan will be in the Test squad.
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Twenty20 starts today and the squad for India will be announced. I have a feeling Morgan will be in the Test squad.
He is and as are Compton and Root. Bopara not picked and I am surprised that Taylor has been omitted.
The KP saga is unresolved and I would have thought that the longer that it drags on the less likely he is to be selected ever again.
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I am surprised that Taylor has been left out, seems very harsh.
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Oh dear KP has released a statement.
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Oh dear KP has released a statement.
oh dear, peanuts going up 10p ?
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Oh dear KP has released a statement.
oh dear, peanuts going up 10p ?
Do they still make beef Disco's?
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Odd warm up game that we won today, but promising that we've got two wins from our warm up games.
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Odd warm up game that we won today, but promising that we've got two wins from our warm up games.
I have a feeling Jade Dernbach will soon be recognised as the number 1 bowler in t20, his slow delivery is immense, as soon as people are trying to score from every delivery he becomes close to unplayable, reasonably full, reasonably straight but changes speed by 10-15mph without any warning signs.
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Afghanistan's bowling looks pretty bloody handy.
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t20 bowling is very different to test and odi.
When the batsman can afford to be patient and pick off the bad balls predictable line and length is ideal, in t20 being a little more erratic is a big advantage, which suits the non test playing nations well as their bowlers tend not to have the same line and length habits. The really good thing is that purely by chance it reduces the gap between the top and bottom sides which will encourage the smaller nations to play at that level and hopefully lead them towards playing at a higher level in all forms.
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They look like a legitimate threat, I hope we haven't underestimated them.
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Cook sounds like he wants Pietersen back.
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Cook sounds like he wants Pietersen back.
Wonder if Andy Flower feels the same though?
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"Hoping all is sorted & I'm on the New Zealand tour in February." Pietersen has tweeted that, which suggests he thinks it's been dealt with now.
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Thus far this tournament has been pretty poor, some individual performances apart. The crowds have been terrible and the games have been massively one sided. The only game that got a bit interesting was India vs Afghanistan. Now I hope we hammer Afghanistan, but it would be nice to see some contests.
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When is the India game?
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When is the India game?
Just checked, it is Sunday but being in Canada I have no chance of seeing it live
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Bloody hell watching this Twenty20, are our players ever going to learn how to play spin? These aren't even turning much and we're being slaughtered.
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We are going to get massacred in India on the evidence of this. I know it's a different team, but same problems.
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English players will never be good against spin, the pitches in the UK just don't lend themselves to learning to play spin in sub-continent conditions.
They key to playing spin well is to play a long way forward but english batsmen develop as backfoot players. Bell and Cook are the key ones, both are textbook English batsmen, they both do ok against spin but never look comfortable because they're too deep in their crease and their balance is all wrong. Watch players who are regarded as strong against spin and they always come out of their crease a lot more and just give the ball less time to do anything. That forces the bowlers to play around with their length so they generally go shorter and can be picked off.
The place where we could learn something is the IPL but our players aren't allowed in it thanks to scheduling.
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Sounds like KP is on the verge of coming back, which in my opinion is good news.
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Yep, sounds like KP will be going to India.
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Sounds like KP is on the verge of coming back, which in my opinion is good news.
Looks like it's all but been confirmed today.
Great news, he's too big a talent to be dumped over nonsense which is no worse than stuff players come out with all the time.
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just to let you know if interested, ashes tickets go on sale today at old trafford and trent bridge. i am waiting in the queue obviously!
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just to let you know if interested, ashes tickets go on sale today at old trafford and trent bridge. i am waiting in the queue obviously!
December for the Oval
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Martin Crowe has been diagnosed with Lymphoma. Good luck Martin and hope you fully recover as soon as possible.
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Didn't he have it, or some other serious illness, previously?
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Not that I'm aware of, but possibly.
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Looks like the KP situation has been dealt with, he's now been added to the touring squad for India. That's good news and I hope all parties can move on now.
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Martin Crowe has been diagnosed with Lymphoma. Good luck Martin and hope you fully recover as soon as possible.
Always one of my favourite players, I even had a pair of Martin Crowe cricket boots.
More news of a similar vein, Tony Greig has lung cancer:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/587398.html
Get well wishes sent to both of them.
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Good luck to both of them.
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Cheeky feckers.
Sky and BCCI in pre-series dispute
Sky TV may not send its team of commentators to cover England's tour of India, which begins in November, unless a dispute with the BCCI over access for their commentary team to the Test venues is resolved. Sky hold the UK rights for the series, but the Sunday Times in London reported the broadcaster had received an unexpected demand from the Indian board for additional fees totalling more than £500,000 ($800,000) for their commentary team to have facilities at the grounds.
ESPNcricinfo understands the figure being quoted to Sky is the BCCI's estimate of 'realistic costs' related to Sky's wish to have independent and unilateral coverage of the India-England series. The cost includes, among other things, studio space and a commentary box for Sky's own panel of commentators, a TV control room, audio and video feed, a scoring monitor, as well as space for satellite uplinking from the venues for 30 days of cricket. Sky's interpretation is that securing of TV rights should automatically assume such provisions as part of the deal.
Sky warned their bank of commentators, including former England captains Michael Atherton, Nasser Hussain and Ian Botham, that they regard the BCCI's demands as brinkmanship, and that they may not travel unless a solution can be found. If the dispute is not settled, Sky would be forced to accept commentary from the host broadcaster, or to set up a studio outside the grounds.
Problems for UK broadcasters have been a common feature of England games in India. During a one-day series last year, television audiences in India and England were deprived of the first three overs of a match in Hyderabad because of a dispute between the host broadcaster of the time, Neo Sports, and Prasar Bharati, the government agency responsible for uplinking live telecasts out of India.
There was also an issue about Sky TV's own commentators awaiting what one Sky commentator told ESPNcricinfo were "government clearances", before being able to broadcast live out of India. As a result, the Sky TV producers made use of the Neo Cricket commentary team, which included Matthew Hoggard and Dermot Reeve.
There were also problems for Sky before England's 2006 tour of India, when they agreed terms with Nimbus, who had just bought the rights to India's home matches, only a few days before the series began.
The Indian board has since terminated its deal with Nimbus because of alleged payment defaults, and announced a more lucrative deal with Star TV.
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Star TV's commentators are poor and their coverage not much better - every opportunity taken to focus in on some gurning loon in the crowd. It would make watching us lose badly even worse not having Botham snipe at all and sundry.
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The BCCI now want 50 grand off the BBC for test match special.
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I have concerns with Broad being named vice captain, as I'm not sure on current form he warrants a place in the side.
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Finn is injured, not good.
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A mixed day...........good innings by Cook, Trott and Patel (who seems nailed on for the test team) dissapointing from Compton, Bell and KP out to Yuraj who seems to like bowling to him
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Compton may well have blown his chance there, not sure how many warm up games there are but I imagine Root will get a shot at it in the next game. Not too concerned with KP as sounded like he was in decent knick.
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Patel's probably secured the number 6 spot with that hundred, well played.
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Not a big fan of Patel but it does seem that he has secured his spot. i hope not.
Cook
Trott
Pietersen
Bell
Compton/Root
Prior
Bresnan
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Finn or whichever other bowler we have
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Trott won't open.
Compton and Root are going head-to-head for that spot in the next warm-up match.
Depending on the pitch, and it's likely to be spin friendly, we are in India after all, I'd go five batsmen, five bowlers and Prior:
Cook
Compton / Root
Trott
Pietersen
Bell
Prior
Bresnan
Swann
Broad
Anderson
Panesar
We still bat to 9 in that line up.
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Interesting against Mumbai A. Compton gets nothing again, so I think he hasn't got a chance now. Number 6 is interesting though Morgan, Bairstow and Patel all have got runs.
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This is fun. India 120 - 0 at lunch. Anderson and Bresnan going at 6 an over.
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Gets better. In the 1.2 overs after lunch they've scored 14, Prior has missed a difficult legside catch off Anderson and an easy stumping off Swann.
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And got Gambhir out next ball.
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This made me giggle, from someone on twitter.
You really can't give Sehwag any width. Unless you're his tailor, in which case it's a necessity
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I'm not sure why Bresnan is in the side, he hasn't been economical or remotely threatening.
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250/3 at tea......god knows what the little master was playing at.
UTV
The Doc
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We're playing for a draw here I think. Bresnan really shouldn't have been in this side I don't think.
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We're playing for a draw here I think. Bresnan really shouldn't have been in this side I don't think.
Yes backs to the wall already, India will post a big score now and I'd be delighted to get a draw from here, monty should be playing.
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Looks like an absolutely dreadful decision to go in with three seamers. Our team choice has been a bit too predictable.
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I'm not sure why Bresnan is in the side, he hasn't been economical or remotely threatening.
He got a lot of reverse swing in one of the warm ups and with Finn ruled out through injury he was sure starter.
Flower doesn't like to play 5 bowlers and as a result you have a bits and pieces cricketer like Patel in the team over a good spinner like Monty.
I like Bresnan. He's exactly the sort of bowler we need in these conditions. He'll comfortably bowl 20 + overs without complaint or reward in the same way that Hoggard used to.
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Yeah but unfortunately he's taken a bit of punishment today and this doesn't look like a three seamer pitch to me. I appreciate we have our formula, but you need to be flexible.
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Monty absolutely certainly should have played in this game. We've made the same mistake we made in the first Test in the UAE. I appreciate we got hammered in that series, but that was down to the batting more than the bowling.
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In the context of the game a terrible drop from Trott, you can't let Kohli off. Not good enough.
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Has our fielding coach changed in the last year or so? Because we've gone from an excellent fielding side to a pretty average one. It's not just a blip now, we consistenly drop catches and misfield. Our quality of fielding was one of the reasons we reached the top of the game, and the current standard is unacceptable.
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Swanny removes Kohli, relief for Trott. We really should be playing two proper spinners.
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I'm going to agree with Dravid, Patel's spin is simply not good enough to be the second spinner.
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Shit first day. 1-0 India
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Another dropped catch, not good enough. Well it's up to the batsmen to try and save this game, and either way we have to be a lot more imaginative and flexible with our selection for the second Test.
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Whichever way you look at it the three seamers call has been an utter disaster, especially when your second spinner is Patel who isn't up to it at all. We've made the exact same selection mistake we made in the first Test in the UAE last year, very poor.
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First wicket to seam after 157 overs.
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India declare, small mercies. Now batsmen it's up to you to save us.
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England batsmen undone by spin, shocker.
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Anderson gone, so the completely pointless excercise of sending in a nightwatchman has worked well. This Test is going really badly at the moment.
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and there goes Trott now. This is fucking diabolical, our batsmen are a complete joke.
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Well in a complete hole in the subcontinent again. We never ever learn how to play spin, also sending in a nightwatchman with that long to go is insane. We've essentially only got an 8 man team, because the seamers were a complete waste of time.
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Well in a complete hole in the subcontinent again. We never ever learn how to play spin, also sending in a nightwatchman with that long to go is insane. We've essentially only got an 8 man team, because the seamers were a complete waste of time.
I guess that it was felt that they had to play Bresnan just in case Broad broke down again.
Monty to come in for Bresnan in the second test
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Well in a complete hole in the subcontinent again. We never ever learn how to play spin, also sending in a nightwatchman with that long to go is insane. We've essentially only got an 8 man team, because the seamers were a complete waste of time.
I guess that it was felt that they had to play Bresnan just in case Broad broke down again.
Monty to come in for Bresnan in the second test
Well hopefully, but in that case Broad shouldn't have played. I know that Anderson picked up Zaheer Khan, but the seamers contributed nothing other than runs to the opposition. So far 11 wickets have fallen in this Test and one of those is to seam.
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Additionally our top 3 is far too one paced. I'd bring in Root for Compton in the next game, because we need to be able to attack the Indian bowlers. I don't mean being wreckless, but there is very little aggressive threat from our top 3.
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Well in a complete hole in the subcontinent again. We never ever learn how to play spin, also sending in a nightwatchman with that long to go is insane. We've essentially only got an 8 man team, because the seamers were a complete waste of time.
I guess that it was felt that they had to play Bresnan just in case Broad broke down again.
Monty to come in for Bresnan in the second test
I honestly don't believe Broad is that good he's undroppable?, i'd put Anderson & Finn above him. If he was such an injury risk then play Bresnan instead, but Monty had to play, that was apparent within 20 overs.
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Additionally our top 3 is far too one paced. I'd bring in Root for Compton in the next game, because we need to be able to attack the Indian bowlers. I don't mean being wreckless, but there is very little aggressive threat from our top 3.
Can't blame Compton it's his first test, Root would/will be the same, the blame lies with Cook,Pietersen,Bell etc all of them have toured the subcontinent multiple times now. Trott has also played there enough now.
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Well where to start
Very poor fielding, poor/safe team selection, predictable captaincy, losing the toss was a big blow
Monty has to play, we go with 2 seamers, 2 spinners and if Patel doesnt score 200 he can go as well for Bairstow
Compton was the safe option and Root is the future and he can bowl off spin
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Additionally our top 3 is far too one paced. I'd bring in Root for Compton in the next game, because we need to be able to attack the Indian bowlers. I don't mean being wreckless, but there is very little aggressive threat from our top 3.
Can't blame Compton it's his first test, Root would/will be the same, the blame lies with Cook,Pietersen,Bell etc all of them have toured the subcontinent multiple times now. Trott has also played there enough now.
I agree Trott has not looked good at all on the subcontinent. At least Cook and Pietersen have performed there before, and they're still at the crease. My concern with Compton is that I've never thought he was remarkable in county cricket, he's not really an opener he's too similar to those in the top 3. We're very one paced with him in the team, Root has a lot more potential and he is an opener and he is more aggressive. You need people to occupy the crease, but you need stroke makers at the top as well.
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I'll stick this trivia question in here:
What did Chris Gayle do in the current Bangladesh v West Indies Test that has never been done before in any Test match ever?
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I'll stick this trivia question in here:
What did Chris Gayle do in the current Bangladesh v West Indies Test that has never been done before in any Test match ever?
Hit a 6 off the 1st ball of the match...............
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I'll stick this trivia question in here:
What did Chris Gayle do in the current Bangladesh v West Indies Test that has never been done before in any Test match ever?
Hit a 6 off the 1st ball of the match...............
Correct.
I was quite amazed that no one had ever done it before. You'd have thought, with all the dead rubber tests that must have been played over the years, someone would have had a go,
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Test match opening batsmen do not have Gayle's mentality. He is unique.
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Is young Compton any relation to Denis?
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He's his grandson. Well yet another utterly embarrassing batting display, disgusting. Frankly if Patel doesn't get a hundred in the second innings he has to go. Trott and Bell have massive question marks against their places in the sub continent. Diabolical.
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Question marks have to be raised over Gooch as a batting coach as well. If we get hammered as well in this series, then question marks must be raised over Flower's future. He's done brilliantly for England, but over the last year we've been in decline and it doesn't look like he can do anything to address it.
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Oh and KP not problem against left arm spin?
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The batsmen haven't been great but the bigger issue is that India should never have got much over 400 on this pitch, 1 for 245 from our seam attack shows exactly where the problem started. So long as we're reliant on Swann taking 5-6 or more in these matches we're always gonig to struggle to dominate with the ball, which is where we were beating sides a couple of years back.
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Well yes also our seamers looked no threat at all and Yadav looked good for them. I'm really not sure what Broad does to warrant his place at the moment, when he's good he's very good but at the moment he isn't. Cook gets to 50, but he needs 200 here and a couple of hundreds from other players as well.
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Just a few thoughts on what i've seen so far, can't believe Panesar isn't playing, if they didn't think to play him here then he'll never get a game, our technique against playing spin is still as poor as it was 11 months ago against Pakistan and once we realised that the seamers we're having no effect why did it take so long to bring the keeper up to the stumps, short mid on and short mid off, short cover etc and just try to dry up the runs - bore then out if you like.
Wouldn't be dropping Compton after 1 test, we'd be a laughing stock if we did that and it sends a very poor message.
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Looking at this, I'd be half tempted to switch Compton to the middle order to replace Bell and bring Root in up the top. I may jinx it here, but Cook and Compton has done much much better in the second innings.
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A very good option with Bell coming home after this test but I suspect Bairstow will get the nod
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Well woke up late this morning, and very pleasantly surprised by the score. If we lose at least we've put up a fight in this game. Well done, gives us hope for the series if we get the selection right for the next test.
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Trott is becoming a bit of a worry though.
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and KP against left arm spin is a big worry.
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Oh and Patel is not a Test number six ever.
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Oh and Patel is not a Test number six ever.
Neither Patels bowling or batting is up to test match standard.
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I didn't know there were two Patels in the team!
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Cook and Prior were superb earlier.
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Indeed they need to put on at least another hundred though to give us a chance.
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I didn't know there were two Patels in the team!
I counted him as two players, considering his tubbiness.
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Least we showed some fight in the second innings, but the batsmen have to sort themselves out and Panesar and Finn have to play.
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Cook bats well on the subcontinent so we need to get the rest of the batsman to start supporting him better, trott, kp and bell were all out far too cheaply in both tests.
Patel out, bresnan out, Finn and Monty in (monty should always play on the subcontinent, his bowling is perfectly suited to the pitches there). Gives us a long tail but we don't stand a chance unless we can limit them with the bat, we let them get at least 100 too many, and we're going to run Swann into the ground if he has to be the main man in every session.
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Finn and Panesar need to play. Panesar because he's a good spinner who's a wicket taking threat and Finn because extra pace always creates chances even on flat pitches.
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Finn and Panesar need to play. Panesar because he's a good spinner who's a wicket taking threat and Finn because extra pace always creates chances even on flat pitches.
Exactly, the question mark from a bowling point of view then is whether Swann and/or Broad can score enough runs to give us depth in the batting line up or if we need to add a batsman at 6 who can bowl a bit as an option (along with KP who's bowling has improved to the point where he's bad enough to be a threat by being unpredictable but good enough to not get spanked around the pitch). If not we need to look at developing an all -rounder who can be a threat with bat and ball, which we haven't really had since Freddie retired.
The problem we have is that we had a team where you were expected to be above average in at least 2 disciplines (batting, bowling, fielding) which got us to the top of the world but, for whatever reason, those standards aren't there now. Add this to the English coaching habit of pigeon-holing people early in their development (football and rugby suffer in the same way) and you have very few all-rounders. The most puzzling thing is, we value these players when they appear (Botham and Flintoff being great examples in cricket, both are adored by cricket fans of their generation) but do nothing to encourage players to develop that way.
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It's a very good point, we don't seem to develop all rounders and we do need them. In the current team though, frankly Patel isn't good enough to be a Test number 6 and so losing him from the batting is no disaster. It's up to the top order to do its job. Root can bowl spin as well, so his inclusion would add an option there as well.
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I'd also be inclined to bring Morgan into the middle order now he's sorted his technique out again, after his trouble in the UAE. In general he's a good player of spin, and another left hander in the line up prevents the bowlers being too settled.
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Trott's decline over the last 15 Tests is a big concern as well, he doesn't look the same player. I'd consider dropping him as our top 3 is too one paced.
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Trott's decline over the last 15 Tests is a big concern as well, he doesn't look the same player. I'd consider dropping him as our top 3 is too one paced.
I think that's the spot I'd look at for Root if Trott doesn't turn things around soon.
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Trott's decline over the last 15 Tests is a big concern as well, he doesn't look the same player. I'd consider dropping him as our top 3 is too one paced.
I think that's the spot I'd look at for Root if Trott doesn't turn things around soon.
Yeah probably a good shout.
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I didn't know there were two Patels in the team!
I counted him as two players, considering his tubbiness.
:)
Yes thats Unfit Patel and Sofat Patel!
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Stuart Broad's tweet -
- "And before you listen to too many ex-playing 'experts' being negative, ask them if they ever won a Test series in India....#28years.''
Very childish especially since he's just been made vice captain(which I don't agree with, as I'm not sure he warrants a place in the side). Whether those experts didn't win in India or not is irrelevant, it's England now who have started very badly.
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Finn's out of the second Test which is a real blow.
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Looking forward I'm a bit concerned by Australia's form. They're acquitting themselves considerably better against SA than we did.
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Australia are absolutely battering South Africa. 482 runs in a day!! SA look a very different team to the one that comprehensively turned over England a few months ago.
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Stuart Broad's tweet -
- "And before you listen to too many ex-playing 'experts' being negative, ask them if they ever won a Test series in India....#28years.''
Very childish especially since he's just been made vice captain(which I don't agree with, as I'm not sure he warrants a place in the side). Whether those experts didn't win in India or not is irrelevant, it's England now who have started very badly.
That's fucking pathetic from Broad.
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England lose the toss, and with it any chance of victory.
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Good start by England and Monty in particular. Lovely ball to get Tendulkar.
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Looks like a good session and a half from Monty and Swann. It makes the selection from the first game all the more baffling.
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Good job Monty, but we need to knock them over quickly now.
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It was a tough chance earlier but dropping Pujara could be a disaster. We need to knock these over for less than 250.
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Monty strikes again, madness not playing him in the first Test.
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Broad's economy rate is awful next to the other bowlers.
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Broad is costing us here, take him off Cook.
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Broad blowing cold again.
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Broad needs to be dropped he hasn't contributed anything since the UAE.
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Getting edgy here we need to knock them over quickly.
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We're letting it slip here.
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We fucking this up, not good enough Jimmy.
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Broad comes on and gets hammered to the boundary. He has needed dropping for a while.
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We've completely fucked this up here.
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The games gone already.
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I don't know about gone, but we're going to have to knock them over quickly tomorrow and bat very well. Couple of things, today showed that not playing Monty in the first Test was madness. Broad unless he does something truly remarkable in the next few days of the game needs to be dropped. His performance levels have consistently been dropping and he's too comfortable with his place.
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I don't know about gone, but we're going to have to knock them over quickly tomorrow and bat very well. Couple of things, today showed that not playing Monty in the first Test was madness. Broad unless he does something truly remarkable in the next few days of the game needs to be dropped. His performance levels have consistently been dropping and he's too comfortable with his place.
Hopefully for Onions or Finn rather than Bresnan though. I see the value of Bresnan when Broad and Jimmy are taking wickets as he adds a lot of runs in the lower order (much like Patel could) but if any of our other bowlers are out of form he's a passenger we can't carry.
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I don't know about gone, but we're going to have to knock them over quickly tomorrow and bat very well. Couple of things, today showed that not playing Monty in the first Test was madness. Broad unless he does something truly remarkable in the next few days of the game needs to be dropped. His performance levels have consistently been dropping and he's too comfortable with his place.
Hopefully for Onions or Finn rather than Bresnan though. I see the value of Bresnan when Broad and Jimmy are taking wickets as he adds a lot of runs in the lower order (much like Patel could) but if any of our other bowlers are out of form he's a passenger we can't carry.
Yeah agreed on Bresnan not being the replacement, although he hasn't actually got runs for a long time now. Finn is a must for me if fit, Broad has been utterly hopeless. Also Patel's bowling offered nothing again, so I'd be tempted to have Morgan in.
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Broad is a show pony, one good game in ten which always keeps him in for the other 9 when he is average to poor.
Think we probably do need to blood some youth here and esp in New Z in prep for the double Ashes header.
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Broad is a show pony, one good game in ten which always keeps him in for the other 9 when he is average to poor.
Think we probably do need to blood some youth here and esp in New Z in prep for the double Ashes header.
Broad reminds me of a county trundler who can bat a bit. The thing that he lacks is consistency and he is probably the closest player that we have to an all rounder hence his continued selection.
I'd drop him - his overseas record is atrocious. However it does seem harder to get out of this England team than get into it.
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Decent start overall, but Trott needs be dropped. He's been poor for a while.
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I worry about our middle order though, if Patel doesn't get anything in this game he needs to go as his bowling offers nothing and he is not a Test batsman.
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Bloody hell Cook suddenly looks uneasy.
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The frustrating thing is that we're batting well, but we should have had them out for under 250.
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Good game this. If these two see it out then it's been a good day, one wicket turns it back in their favour.
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Indeed I worry about our next two batsmen.
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Excellent day well done Cooky and KP.
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Fine performance today. Such a shame about the last session yesterday. If these 2 can get to lunch tomorrow we could be looking at a 50+ lead. The pitch looks so different from when Monty and Swann were bowling on it. For me Broad has to score some runs he owes us, let's hope Finn is fit for the next test.
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We need to capitalise on this platform and get a 75-100 run lead. Broad is an odd one, because when he's firing he's very good. However at the minute he needs dropping and discovering some form at a lower level.
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First session tomorrow is pivotal, a couple of hours of KP could put is in control whereas 3-4 quick wickets and it's their game to lose.
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Agreed Chris. Let Cook stop around and do what he does for as long as possible. All eyes on an innings from KP however.
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Watching some highlights from this morning KP looked in fine form, another session like that and we'll be in a really strong position. Need to work out a way to get 'the new wall' out of the way though.
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I love it. Ojha's turning it square, with bounce, and gets Patel with a corker. Next over from him Pietersen dumps him into the square leg stand the laps him round the corner without a care.
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Big mouth
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England collapse and the lead is 80-odd. Unless we bowl them out for less than 100, India are red-hot favourites. Rather a wasted opportunity, as we passed their score with only 4 down.
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England collapse and the lead is 80-odd. Unless we bowl them out for less than 100, India are red-hot favourites. Rather a wasted opportunity, as we passed their score with only 4 down.
So you don't think England can knock off any more than 20?
Really wouldn't want to chase much more than 150 so we need to be looking to bowl them out for under 230.
We are still favourites but the lead should be well over 100.
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Good to see Monty opening the bowling. I'd also have thrown the new ball to Swann rather than Jimmy. Seamers have done nothing on this pitch.
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Didn't see that coming!
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Well just caught up with what happened, unbelievable. Brilliant from Cook and KP and Monty has been an absolute star. We absolutely have to win this game.
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The selectors really should be ashamed, the decision to not play monty in the first test looks more and more ridiculous every day.
Brilliant from KP, did exactly what I was hoping for after yesterday, superb performance from a player who is only limited by his attitude.
Then an excellent bowling performance, need to offer gambhir singles and clear the tail up quickly tomorrow, can hopefully be done by lunch.
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Bairstow sounds like he got a bad decision?
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Bairstow sounds like he got a bad decision?
Yes and he shouldnt have walked and then made the umpires refer it to the 3rd umpire who hopefully would have said it was not out
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Watching the highlights, KP truly is a remarkable player and this performance shows why it's madness why some people didn't want him back.
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Also hopefully if we win this match, this is the first time in well over a year we've played really well and ruthlessly against top opposition.
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Oh and Monty should play in every Test where it's a spinning pitch.
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Got up to watch it this morning. Clinical is the only way to describe it.
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Excellent stuff. Now let's win the series.
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Great performance.
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Superb bowling from Swann and Monty backed up a stunning batting performance from KP perfectly.
At our best a year or so ago we engineered chances like this and then took them quickly and efficiently, 2012 had seen that side of our game fall away so it's really positive to see us put a team to the sword like this.
Aside from the 3 mentioned, excellent captaincy by Cook, he did a great job of supporting KP with the bat and got all the important decisions right. Also big kudos to Compton for the finish today. Was only a small total to chase down for the win but to do hitting to the rope rather than eeking out the singles shows great confidence and shows he's mentally strong enough to be a very good opener. I hope today serves as a marker for him where he can step up as he's started ok but not got a big score just yet.
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In fact on reflection that is one of England's best ever Test victories. It's been a long time since we've thrashed a good side, and gives me hope again.
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In fact on reflection that is one of England's best ever Test victories. It's been a long time since we've thrashed a good side, and gives me hope again.
I agree, after such an atrocious year, the signs of a good team are still there. Need to back this up now.
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Good teams win the key sessions.
In this match those were before lunch and after tea on Sunday, and we destroyed them in both, 1 with sa masterful batting display out of the very top drawer and the other with some excellent bowling and captaincy to make the most of very nice spinning conditions.
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Ashley Giles is taking over the ODI and Twenty20 coaching.
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Ashley Giles is taking over the ODI and Twenty20 coaching.
Bugger.
Congratulations and all that but would have liked another year making The Bears even greater.
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Ashley Giles is taking over the ODI and Twenty20 coaching.
Bugger.
Congratulations and all that but would have liked another year making The Bears even greater.
I always thought he'd become an England coach but didn't expect it to happen so soon!
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Bad news for the Bears.
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Very sad to see ash go, he has been a great servant to Warwickshire and I wish him luck with England.
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Bad news for the Bears.
This
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Ponting has retired. Hell of a player and even in bad form I used to fear him coming to the crease.
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Ponting has retired. Hell of a player and even in bad form I used to fear him coming to the crease.
Indeed fabulous player and a great captain.
Wonder if he fancies a stint as player-coach of the Bears?
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Shame, I looked forward to seeing the little rat-faced twunt's middle stump being uprooted time and again next summer.
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A pantomime villain for England supporters but he's essentially a decent guy who loves cricket. Excellent article from cricinfo here:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-south-africa-2012/content/current/story/594363.html
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Punter is one of the greats (although the first Aussie Captain to lose 3 Ashes Series). :D
He will be missed though.
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Ponting has retired. Hell of a player and even in bad form I used to fear him coming to the crease.
Indeed fabulous player and a great captain.
Wonder if he fancies a stint as player-coach of the Bears?
Ooooohhhh, now I like that idea.
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Shame, I looked forward to seeing the little rat-faced twunt's middle stump being uprooted time and again next summer.
I echo Dave's sentiments.
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A pantomime villain for England supporters but he's essentially a decent guy who loves cricket.
Enough of this "pantomime villain" bollocks!
He was an Aussie, and fucking good at cricket, so he wasn't any "pantomime villain" he was the enemy pure and simple, him and Warne and the Waughs and the fucking rest of them.
Do I respect him, fuck yes, would I have wanted him to get a golden duck if he had played us next summer? Oh fuck yes!
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Great article from Rahul Dravid (http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/594404.html) - seems to have followed in Atherton's footsteps and become a brilliant journalist.
Ponting has a few blemishes on his career - waggling his finger around in the umpire's face in the last Ashes, claiming catches, not walking etc, but he was a joy to watch as well. Remember the streetfighter Headingley innings?
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I always liked Ponting he was a top test batsman and a great captain. I wish that we had a few players with similar levels of grit and determination.
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I always liked Ponting he was a top test batsman and a great captain. I wish that we had a few players with similar levels of grit and determination.
Same pantomime villain, but he's a top player and a great competitor. Up there with Lara in my time watching cricket.
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After his 166 in the warm up game i'd be inclined to bring Root in for Trott.
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After his 166 in the warm up game i'd be inclined to bring Root in for Trott.
Yep, couldn't hurt, Trott is woefully off form at the moment.
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I always liked Ponting he was a top test batsman and a great captain. I wish that we had a few players with similar levels of grit and determination.
Same pantomime villain, but he's a top player and a great competitor. Up there with Lara in my time watching cricket.
Top top batsman but sad to see him struggle in the test match at Perth however it's looks as though Amla is the next "Ponting".@
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After his 166 in the warm up game i'd be inclined to bring Root in for Trott.
Yep, couldn't hurt, Trott is woefully off form at the moment.
I'd go with Bell for Trott and Finn for Broad.
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After his 166 in the warm up game i'd be inclined to bring Root in for Trott.
Yep, couldn't hurt, Trott is woefully off form at the moment.
I'd go with Bell for Trott and Finn for Broad.
I'm not against that, although I'm not sure Bell has really earnt his place on this tour. If he's coming back in, I'd have him in for Patel and Root in for Trott. Root bowls well enough as well for a few overs, and he's got runs behind him.
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I see Warne has said he'd return if asked.
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I see Warne has said he'd return if asked.
Bring him on the pie chucker!
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I see Warne has said he'd return if asked.
He has some casino chips to sell don't worry.
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So frustrating Yuvraj should have been given out twice on 0, they're now dominating. We're in trouble.
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Ah good jinxed him and he's out! Need Tendulkar and Dhoni quick.
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Tendulkar gone, Jimmy!
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Ashwin gone.
Massive wicket 268/7 and well into the tail now.
They'd have been looking for 500+ on this pitch, we might keep them below 300 with a bit of good bowling in the morning, huge advantage England at stumps on day 1.
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Have to say that's an excellent day for England.
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and closes on 273/7
Englands day by a long long way. First innings average there for the last 10 years is 396, India specifically have got over 600 on their last 3.
As said, 500 will have been the target (for info the 2nd innings average is 480).
Special mention for Jimmy, for a seamer to outshine a spinner as good as Monty (in these conditions) takes some special bowling. Sounds like he'd have got a few more with DRS as well, superb day for him, shows again that, when he's 'on' he can be almost unplayable, even on a batting pitch.
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Excellent day for England, bowlers starting to get back to what we were when we were at our best. Now we need to knock them over ideally for less than 300 in the morning and bat well.
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If Finn hadn't fumbled that run out they would have been 8 down with a few overs left, and maybe we might have rolled then over today. Now there's a thought that no one had considered at start of play.
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If we get Dhoni early on day two then we should get them out for under 300. He can take the game away from us in a few overs. Then all we need is a little application from our top order!
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If we get Dhoni early on day two then we should get them out for under 300. He can take the game away from us in a few overs. Then all we need is a little application from our top order!
It needs more than a few overs from him.
As I said, they'd have been looking for 500+ he'd need to score big and quick and hope the other end holds up to get them to a score they'd be happy with.
Regardless of what happens in the rest of their innings we need a 150-200 stand from one of the early pairings, along with decent scores from the rest.
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So far so good and congratulations to Cook in becoming the youngest test batsman to 7,000 test runs.
He could go on to become the highest run scorer in tests. He'll be 28 on Christmas Day and could easily play for another 10 years.
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Arise Sir Cook, what a player. 23 Test Centuries.
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Bollocks Compton gone. But that's a great platform, we have to bat for a big lead from here.
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When Geoffrey was going on about the Indian bowlers needing to east some steaks, you could almost feel the cringing in the booth
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Another superb dominating day. 216-1 is a cracking score. Cook has been incredible, and we need to really drill the advantage home tomorrow. We really need to win this Test now.
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If we get Dhoni early on day two then we should get them out for under 300. He can take the game away from us in a few overs. Then all we need is a little application from our top order!
It needs more than a few overs from him.
As I said, they'd have been looking for 500+ he'd need to score big and quick and hope the other end holds up to get them to a score they'd be happy with.
Regardless of what happens in the rest of their innings we need a 150-200 stand from one of the early pairings, along with decent scores from the rest.
Cook and Compton did exactly what we needed there. Hopefully Cook will push on to a double century and KP will come in wanting to catch cook on 23 centuries and score a hatful as well.
Target has got to be 500, probably closer to 600 then try to skittle them.
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This match is over by a mile. Monty will make sure of that.
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Cook unlucky with that run out, and that's the first time in his first class and Test career that he has ever been run out!
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Pietersen's off and running.
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Bell gone, his place is looking very dodgy at the moment. Patel needs runs as well.
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bell looks badly out of nick!
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Need a big knock from KP, that was a very lazy shot from Bell. No foot movement at all.
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He didn't deserve to get put back in the side.
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got a good pic of him at mecca this season with my youngest boy
(http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q700/rutski73/IMG-20120930-00180.jpg)
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Bollocks KP gone, decent knock from him but we're making a cock up of this here.
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Good day, that Prior and Swann partnership has got us back on track. So tomorrow morning try and push the lead to 250 ish and then bowl them out. Big question marks over Bell and Patel though.
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Good day, that Prior and Swann partnership has got us back on track. So tomorrow morning try and push the lead to 250 ish and then bowl them out. Big question marks over Bell and Patel though.
This is what I love about English sports teams, we are always looking to make changes to them even when they are going well. I certainly do on the Rugby Union thread anyhow :-)
Anyway, I don't think Bell's place is remotely in danger and neither should it be. Yes, he is on a thin streak in terms of scroring runs but lest we forget he was the leading run scorer last year in a stellar year for English batting. More to the point, I don't see who will come in and guarantee to play better than Belly.
One of the reasons England got to number one in the world and are still comfortably the second best team, is because of consistency of selection. And also remember, a batter normally can only afford one mistake and they are out, a bowler can send a bad ball down get thumped for four and then gets another chance straight away.
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Dave - got it in one......Belly's place is safe as houses!!!!
People were saying the same about Trott - played himself into some form today. Bell will do the same hopefully in 4th Test. He may not get another go in this one.
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I'm more concerned with Bell on the sub-continent where he has struggled badly. Patel should never be number six. But I'm glad we're starting to perform well as a unit again. Prior is a fantastic player.
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I'm more concerned with Bell on the sub-continent where he has struggled badly. Patel should never be number six. But I'm glad we're starting to perform well as a unit again. Prior is a fantastic player.
He hasn't made the runs his talent suggest he should have, but after the next game they are off to New Zealand and then back to back Ashes series. He will hopefully be firing on all cylinders in those series.
The number 6 slot, after the retirement of Collingwood has never really been filled with Morgan and to a lesser extent Bairstow and Patel all having a shot at it. This is my point about dropping Bell, neither of those three have convinced yet so why put two of them in. I like Bairstow and think he will make it and have a good career but I wouldn't like Patel to be dropped after 2/3 games, even though I agree with you he isn't test class at No 6. He, like Cook, Bell, Trott, KP etc should have a decent run in the team.
I have no problem with rotating bowlers to keep them fresh, but I don't like it with batsmen for the reasons outlined in my previous post.
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Bell's style just isn't suited to really slow pitches. He does really well outside the sub-continent.
I agree on Patel, not good enough with the bat and nowhere near good enough with the ball. Then on top of that he's terrible in the field. Bell always brings top class fielding even if his batting is letting him down.
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I'm more concerned with Bell on the sub-continent where he has struggled badly. Patel should never be number six. But I'm glad we're starting to perform well as a unit again. Prior is a fantastic player.
He hasn't made the runs his talent suggest he should have,
5,500 test runs for a bloke who is only 30 and could still play for another 5 or more years seems to be a reasonable return to me.
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I think if I were to pick a world 11 at the moment, the players who would get in from England would be Cook, KP, Prior, Swann and Anderson.
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Saturday morning lie-in and I nearly miss the end of the test! Amazed to wake and find India 8 down and still short of making us bat again.
These last 2 tests have seen us get back to the levels of intensity that we last showed 18 months ago and has been missing since.
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Same here mate, I got up and couldn't believe it! Yes this is back to the England we expect, although still dropping some catches.
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Fair play to the Indian crowd, unlike the Aussies they've stayed to watch when their team's getting hammered.
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\watching the highlights Bell's run out almost perfectly underlines my defense of him yesterday, he's easily the best fielder we have, and very possibly the best in the world, for that reason his place is safe as can be.
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Same here mate, I got up and couldn't believe it! Yes this is back to the England we expect, although still dropping some catches.
I got in the car to drive up to Bradford about 7.30, switched on TMS and heard them mention Patel fielding, so I'm thinking the Indian openers are in, nearly crashed when they said were six down.
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Oh dear 7/2.
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8/3.Starting to shit it.
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Win by 7 wickets.Good stuff.
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That got a bit dicey for a second, but overall brilliant display.
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Again, lots of credit to Bell there, he came in under a lot of pressure there and did exactly the right thing.
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Well done England
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Finn out not good news.
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Shocking decision for Cook, but Trott, Bell and Compton have let us down. We're in big big trouble here.
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Bell's form this year has been a real concern.
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We could do with Root and KP putting on a triple century partnership.
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KP gone that's the end of us, what a fucking diabolical display this has been.
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We could do with Root and KP Prior putting on a triple century partnership.
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Sadly looks like this will be a drawn series now, barring a remarkable batting display. Compton hasn't done enough to warrant his place really and I like Bell but he shouldn't be on the team with his form this year.
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I also wouldn't be one of the people slaughtering KP for getting out, at least he got a decent amount of runs.
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The interesting one for me is Compton, everyone has talked about how well he's done. To be honest I haven't been that impressed, he's got starts and got out or just got out. He hasn't done anything remarkable yet.
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Although I'm hoping this might be a low scoring pitch, and if we can somehow get to 300 it might be ok.
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I'm hoping we can make 300 as well, although I see 250-260 as being more likely, and then try and get a couple of early wickets in the morning. If we can hold them to 350, then we are still in with a shout. That said, I think there are still a lot of potential turns in this test match yet. It's far from over.
It looks pretty certain that we are going to get a result one way or the other, mind.
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Root and Prior have done very well there. It's really important that we get up to 300, I'm not sure it's that great a pitch to score on. It's a real shame Finn is out, because Bresnan doesn't look the same bowler anymore. Bell will be looking over his shoulder now, his form this year has been really poor.
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Yeah, they've done well at the end there. Steadied the ship nicely. All set up for a good day's play tomorrow. Turning into a really interesting test match.
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Quite a recovery of sorts. It must have been painful viewing at times.
On day 2 we need Prior and Root to continue where they left off whilst Bresnan and Swann contribute with the bat.
Bresnan divides opinion on this board and whilst I don't want to go over old ground, playing him at 8 and Swann at 9 does mean that we bat very deep which should be beneficial in this test.
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I think it's a wicket where, if you are prepared to graft and not get impatient, you will stay in and grind the runs out. Let's hope Prior and Root manage to get a start in the morning and the others also do their bit. It is not a wicket where you can score quickly, the outfield is also slow, so the Indians could well get in a mess trying to push the run rate along and give soft wickets away.
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Australia stayed on top for years by getting themselves out of predicaments like this. 150-5? No problem mate, the tail will wag us to about 250 and Warne and McGrath will skittle them for about 220 before Haydn and Ponting batter their way to 504-3 declared. At this point, the oppo is totally deflated and it's victory by about 300 runs. We'll need Swann to be at his best for this to happen, but we can still do it.
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What a dog turd of a pitch.
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KP reckons it's the toughest pitch he's ever played on for scoring shots, that's interesting. It may be the case that 200-5 isn't so bad, and if we can add another 100 on that'd be good.
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If we can get 300 we've done well. Anyrthing more would be great. If Monty and Swann get into them again then we could be looking at another victory yet.
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KP reckons it's the toughest pitch he's ever played on for scoring shots, that's interesting. It may be the case that 200-5 isn't so bad, and if we can add another 100 on that'd be good.
Saw most of the lunch to tea session and echo the thoughts of KP on scoring. If he can't score quickly then, as long as we bowl with discipline, then India shouldn't be able too either. The caveat to that is Sehwag of course, 3/4 hours of him and it's a different ball game.
My initial thoughts are we are nothing more than okay with what we have scored. Agree if we can cobble together another 100 or so then that will be reasonable. But the real aspect of this game is that India HAVE to win so you would think they will have to force it. If it's that hard to score on, how long will it take India to get enough runs to get in front and put us under pressure?.
All very interesting but I would be a lot more confident with Finn in the team, although from a batting point of view I am now glad that Bresnan is there.
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If we can get 300 we've done well. Anyrthing more would be great. If Monty and Swann get into them again then we could be looking at another victory yet.
I think if we manage 300, the momentum will have swung back and they'll crumble.
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Beautifully balanced test, as the old maxim goes, wait to see how India bat before going on at our batsmen too much. On that subject though, just when England are in a hole lately, Bell comes along and jumps in.
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Shouldn't you be at work, Tricky!
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KP reckons it's the toughest pitch he's ever played on for scoring shots, that's interesting. It may be the case that 200-5 isn't so bad, and if we can add another 100 on that'd be good.
Saw most of the lunch to tea session and echo the thoughts of KP on scoring. If he can't score quickly then, as long as we bowl with discipline, then India shouldn't be able too either. The caveat to that is Sehwag of course, 3/4 hours of him and it's a different ball game.
My initial thoughts are we are nothing more than okay with what we have scored. Agree if we can cobble together another 100 or so then that will be reasonable. But the real aspect of this game is that India HAVE to win so you would think they will have to force it. If it's that hard to score on, how long will it take India to get enough runs to get in front and put us under pressure?.
All very interesting but I would be a lot more confident with Finn in the team, although from a batting point of view I am now glad that Bresnan is there.
Problem is that Bresnan hasn't got runs in ages and his bowling looks pretty ordinary now.
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Shouldn't you be at work, Tricky!
It's called multi-tasking. Correct punctuation please son.
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KP reckons it's the toughest pitch he's ever played on for scoring shots, that's interesting. It may be the case that 200-5 isn't so bad, and if we can add another 100 on that'd be good.
Saw most of the lunch to tea session and echo the thoughts of KP on scoring. If he can't score quickly then, as long as we bowl with discipline, then India shouldn't be able too either. The caveat to that is Sehwag of course, 3/4 hours of him and it's a different ball game.
My initial thoughts are we are nothing more than okay with what we have scored. Agree if we can cobble together another 100 or so then that will be reasonable. But the real aspect of this game is that India HAVE to win so you would think they will have to force it. If it's that hard to score on, how long will it take India to get enough runs to get in front and put us under pressure?.
All very interesting but I would be a lot more confident with Finn in the team, although from a batting point of view I am now glad that Bresnan is there.
Problem is that Bresnan hasn't got runs in ages and his bowling looks pretty ordinary now.
Out of his last 14 tests Bresnan hasn't batted in half of them. When he does bat he will generally contribute a useful 20 or 30 which isn't bad for a test number 7 or 8. His bowling has lost that zip but he's a workhorse when we need one, just like Hoggard used to be.
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KP reckons it's the toughest pitch he's ever played on for scoring shots, that's interesting. It may be the case that 200-5 isn't so bad, and if we can add another 100 on that'd be good.
Saw most of the lunch to tea session and echo the thoughts of KP on scoring. If he can't score quickly then, as long as we bowl with discipline, then India shouldn't be able too either. The caveat to that is Sehwag of course, 3/4 hours of him and it's a different ball game.
My initial thoughts are we are nothing more than okay with what we have scored. Agree if we can cobble together another 100 or so then that will be reasonable. But the real aspect of this game is that India HAVE to win so you would think they will have to force it. If it's that hard to score on, how long will it take India to get enough runs to get in front and put us under pressure?.
All very interesting but I would be a lot more confident with Finn in the team, although from a batting point of view I am now glad that Bresnan is there.
Problem is that Bresnan hasn't got runs in ages and his bowling looks pretty ordinary now.
Out of his last 14 tests Bresnan hasn't batted in half of them. When he does bat he will generally contribute a useful 20 or 30 which isn't bad for a test number 7 or 8. His bowling has lost that zip but he's a workhorse when we need one, just like Hoggard used to be.
He hasn't batted that much in Tests, but his ODI and county batting hasn't been up to much. Problem is that a workhorse is ok in a 5 man attack, less so in a 4 man attack. Hopefully he'll get his zip back, but I reckon his elbow is knackered.
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I think this pitch will actually be really good for bres. Looks like one suited for a shorter quick bowler, think we might see a few staying really low from him. Needs to start out wide and angle in at the stumps a little and he'll get a lot of joy. Swann and Monty will have a good time as well.
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Re Tim Bresnan
Advantage PaulWinch again.
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KP reckons it's the toughest pitch he's ever played on for scoring shots, that's interesting. It may be the case that 200-5 isn't so bad, and if we can add another 100 on that'd be good.
Saw most of the lunch to tea session and echo the thoughts of KP on scoring. If he can't score quickly then, as long as we bowl with discipline, then India shouldn't be able too either. The caveat to that is Sehwag of course, 3/4 hours of him and it's a different ball game.
My initial thoughts are we are nothing more than okay with what we have scored. Agree if we can cobble together another 100 or so then that will be reasonable. But the real aspect of this game is that India HAVE to win so you would think they will have to force it. If it's that hard to score on, how long will it take India to get enough runs to get in front and put us under pressure?.
All very interesting but I would be a lot more confident with Finn in the team, although from a batting point of view I am now glad that Bresnan is there.
Problem is that Bresnan hasn't got runs in ages and his bowling looks pretty ordinary now.
Out of his last 14 tests Bresnan hasn't batted in half of them. When he does bat he will generally contribute a useful 20 or 30 which isn't bad for a test number 7 or 8. His bowling has lost that zip but he's a workhorse when we need one, just like Hoggard used to be.
He hasn't batted that much in Tests, but his ODI and county batting hasn't been up to much. Problem is that a workhorse is ok in a 5 man attack, less so in a 4 man attack. Hopefully he'll get his zip back, but I reckon his elbow is knackered.
Clearly I know jack shit about anything. I'm sure Bresnan read this thread the bastard!
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Nice to see Swann and Root (before he was out) batting in caps rather than helmets, Root looked about 12 years old!
I think reaching 300 + from 139-5 will be a pivotal moment in this test. It's a dog of a pitch, Swann & Monty will bowl the lions share of the overs and hopefully skittle them out cheaply.
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Great recovery, making it to 330, and a good start getting Sehwag in the first over as well.
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I'd have taken 300, but I'm wondering if we're a bit short. Still hopefully we'll get into them.
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I'd have taken 300, but I'm wondering if we're a bit short. Still hopefully we'll get into them.
Reckon we'll take 5 in the next session.
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I'd have taken 300, but I'm wondering if we're a bit short. Still hopefully we'll get into them.
Reckon we'll take 5 in the next session.
Let's bloody hope so. I have a horrible feeling we won't get any.
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They're going along quite nicely at the moment.
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My fears on Bres seem to be being realised. He's not threatening at all with the ball, and got nothing with the bat. His last 8 Tests he's averaged 17 with the bat.
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We're struggling here.
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Big wicket, needed that. Good catch Bell.
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Loving Boycs on TMS saying, rather unconvincingly, that he needed fairly frequent pep-talks to keep his confidence up as a player. All I can say is that those pep-talks appear to have worked.
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Yet again, Bell failed with the Bat but has taken an excellent catch at a very important time. That's why Bell will generally get the nod at 5, even if he doesn't score runs he's such a good fielder that he's 'worth' a big stack of runs just from his catches and run outs.
It really was an excellent catch as well.
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Ah Prior drops Gambir, not good. However at least we're creating chances.
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Jimmy you absolute beauty.
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That's big, need to knock them over now.
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Such a shame seeing Tendulkar like this. He should have retired after they toured England, he's clearly not the player he was (even if he goes on hit a big score in the 2nd innings here) but has probably been put under a lot of pressure to keep playing.
He's one of the top batsmen of all time but seems to be a free wicket for us this tour.
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Such a shame seeing Tendulkar like this. He should have retired after they toured England, he's clearly not the player he was (even if he goes on hit a big score in the 2nd innings here) but has probably been put under a lot of pressure to keep playing.
He's one of the top batsmen of all time but seems to be a free wicket for us this tour.
Agreed. I mean, no Indian selectors are ever even going to approach the idea of dropping Sachin, and that's before you wonder who you'd bring in for him. VVS is gone, Dravid's gone, and after he goes and maybe Sehwag not so long after - he also looks a barely passable imitation of the cricketer he was - the future of the much-vaunted Indian batting line-up looks like it's heading for a lean spell.
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Oh Jimmy Jimmy!!!!!!!
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4 down now. This is very very good
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Such a shame seeing Tendulkar like this. He should have retired after they toured England, he's clearly not the player he was (even if he goes on hit a big score in the 2nd innings here) but has probably been put under a lot of pressure to keep playing.
He's one of the top batsmen of all time but seems to be a free wicket for us this tour.
Agreed. I mean, no Indian selectors are ever even going to approach the idea of dropping Sachin, and that's before you wonder who you'd bring in for him. VVS is gone, Dravid's gone, and after he goes and maybe Sehwag not so long after - he also looks a barely passable imitation of the cricketer he was - the future of the much-vaunted Indian batting line-up looks like it's heading for a lean spell.
I agree. No doubt he wanted his 100th international hundred and maybe should have retired once he achieved that remarkable milestone. One international ton since March 2011 is a poor return from one so gifted.
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Such a shame seeing Tendulkar like this. He should have retired after they toured England, he's clearly not the player he was (even if he goes on hit a big score in the 2nd innings here) but has probably been put under a lot of pressure to keep playing.
He's one of the top batsmen of all time but seems to be a free wicket for us this tour.
Agreed. I mean, no Indian selectors are ever even going to approach the idea of dropping Sachin, and that's before you wonder who you'd bring in for him. VVS is gone, Dravid's gone, and after he goes and maybe Sehwag not so long after - he also looks a barely passable imitation of the cricketer he was - the future of the much-vaunted Indian batting line-up looks like it's heading for a lean spell.
I agree. No doubt he wanted his 100th international hundred and maybe should have retired once he achieved that remarkable milestone. One international ton since March 2011 is a poor return from one so gifted.
The real shame is, if you were a youngster just starting to follow the sport you'd watch him and have no idea why he's called the little master and regarded as one of the top 2-3 batsmen of all time (with Lara and Bradman for me)
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The real shame is, if you were a youngster just starting to follow the sport you'd watch him and have no idea why he's called the little master and regarded as one of the top 2-3 batsmen of all time (with Lara and Bradman for me)
True, but those same kids will be able to work Youtube almost intuitively, and they will see. They'll see.
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I see Mohinder Amarnath said that the selectors present the team to the Chairman of the BCCI, and it's his decision as to whether that team is picked. They wanted to take the captaincy off Dhoni but the Srinivasan vetoed that move.
Dropping Tendulkar will be very difficult.
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Good day in the end. Excellent bowling from Anderson, and we need to continue in the morning.
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think were gona win this series is my not very risky prediction
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There seems to an endemic fitness issue in Indian cricket. Chawla has come in and he's not exactly slim, it's shocking not to be fit in modern cricket.
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There seems to an endemic fitness issue in Indian cricket. Chawla has come in and he's not exactly slim, it's shocking not to be fit in modern cricket.
I think it's a result of having so many star players in their squad who have achieved so much. I noticed Trevor Penney during the last test looking totally bewildered at the poor attitude to fielding drills. This will inevitably lead to a lack of dedication/application in training/fitness.
They had one of the Chappell brothers as coach and he tried to instill discipline and was removed following a player revolt. They then had Kirsten and now Fletcher who seem content to go with the flow and let player power rule which is a shame. Penney was one of the best fielders that I've ever seen and he's wasted as fielding coach to a bunch of lazy prima donnas.
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There seems to an endemic fitness issue in Indian cricket. Chawla has come in and he's not exactly slim, it's shocking not to be fit in modern cricket.
I think it's a result of having so many star players in their squad who have achieved so much. I noticed Trevor Penney during the last test looking totally bewildered at the poor attitude to fielding drills. This will inevitably lead to a lack of dedication/application in training/fitness.
They had one of the Chappell brothers as coach and he tried to instill discipline and was removed following a player revolt. They then had Kirsten and now Fletcher who seem content to go with the flow and let player power rule which is a shame. Penney was one of the best fielders that I've ever seen and he's wasted as fielding coach to a bunch of lazy prima donnas.
Indian cricket has been built for 10-15 years around having an exceptional top 6, anything beyond basic fielding was never a requirement and the bowlers never needed to force the issue, but rather keep it simple and wait for the other team to make a mistake, look at their average scores in that period, the amount of 1st innings of 500+ is well out of line with every other test playing nation, even the great aussie team never score those figures so consistently.
The problem is, they were so good that, like the aussies, there is a vacuum behind and they don't have the other skills to remain competitive whilst the newer players learn to play test cricket. I think they're going to fall harder than australia and will take longer to come back, Tendulkar is pretty much gone, Sehwag will follow, Dhoni is probably close to calling it a day as well and then they're left with average bowlers and inexperienced batsmen and very little team ethic to fall back on.
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There seems to an endemic fitness issue in Indian cricket. Chawla has come in and he's not exactly slim, it's shocking not to be fit in modern cricket.
I think it's a result of having so many star players in their squad who have achieved so much. I noticed Trevor Penney during the last test looking totally bewildered at the poor attitude to fielding drills. This will inevitably lead to a lack of dedication/application in training/fitness.
They had one of the Chappell brothers as coach and he tried to instill discipline and was removed following a player revolt. They then had Kirsten and now Fletcher who seem content to go with the flow and let player power rule which is a shame. Penney was one of the best fielders that I've ever seen and he's wasted as fielding coach to a bunch of lazy prima donnas.
Indian cricket has been built for 10-15 years around having an exceptional top 6, anything beyond basic fielding was never a requirement and the bowlers never needed to force the issue, but rather keep it simple and wait for the other team to make a mistake, look at their average scores in that period, the amount of 1st innings of 500+ is well out of line with every other test playing nation, even the great aussie team never score those figures so consistently.
The problem is, they were so good that, like the aussies, there is a vacuum behind and they don't have the other skills to remain competitive whilst the newer players learn to play test cricket. I think they're going to fall harder than australia and will take longer to come back, Tendulkar is pretty much gone, Sehwag will follow, Dhoni is probably close to calling it a day as well and then they're left with average bowlers and inexperienced batsmen and very little team ethic to fall back on.
A poor Indian test side is bad for the game. The BCCI are so powerful and carry so much influence within the ICC. If the IPL continues to prosper then the BCCI will concentrate on the shorter formats at the expense of tests which will have reprecussions throughout the world. We could very easily end up as one of a handful of test playing nations alongside the Aussies, Kiwis and Saffers with the rest contesting endless one day tournaments.
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We've hardly troubled them today. Fair play to Kohli and Dhoni, we've not necessarily bowled poorly, it just looks flat now while they've dug in.
Looks likely we'll be heading for an innings a side game over 2 days to decide the series.
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We're in trouble here now, well played India but I didn't expect to get up to see this.
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I have a horrible feeling we might get skittled in our second innings trying to block out, I hope not.
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We're not looking a threat at all, I'd give KP a twirl.
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Right their having quick drinks, hopefully a loss of concentration and a wicket. It looks very flat.
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Right Bresnan, you haven't justified your place for a long while now. It's time you stepped up.
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Kohli gone, drinks break. Finally, we need to go through them here now.
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He might got a wicket, but I'd take Bresnan off. We need to attack the game now and get threatening bowlers on.
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Oh bollocks Anderson looks like he's injured.
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He's not, he's got Jadeja. Great time for a wicket.
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Cook runs out Dhoni for 99!
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Top draw run out was that
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Swann bowls Chawla in last over.
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Great comeback by England in the last session.
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Great fightback there, back just about on top.
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After 3 one sided Test Matches looks like this one will be the nail biter.
For play to both teams today, a real scrap and the reason why Test Match Cricket is head and shoulders above any other form of the game, and most other sports in my opinion.
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After 3 one sided Test Matches looks like this one will be the nail biter.
For play to both teams today, a real scrap and the reason why Test Match Cricket is head and shoulders above any other form of the game, and most other sports in my opinion.
It's good that it is happening in India too, as they're arguably the least Test friendly nation. A great advert for the 5-day game.
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Proper Test cricket, it doesn't matter how many wickets you take sometimes, as long as your opponents aren't taking the game away from you, and India never were.
Paul Winch, you are the most pessimistic poster on this thread ever!
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Very poor behaviour by the Indians particularly Kohli over the Trott non-dismissal. Ironic really because the Indian board reject DRS because they believe in the sanctity of the Umpire's decision. Pity they haven't told their players. I don't think he hit it but to continue with the verbals was wrong.
Attritional stuff all day. I think if we bat until just after lunch on day 5 then we should be fine. The Indians may well rue batting on this morning, they wasted an hour's play.
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Kohli always strikes me as a bit of wanker. We still have a job to do, but hopefully Bell and Trott can keep batting.
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well we have 2 targets:
Bat until the middle of the afternoon session OR
get to about 275
The good thing is the play nicely together. If we look like we're going to make the 1st India will have to try to force the issue with the ball, which will mean bringing the field in, opening space for more boundaries than have been seen so far this test.
Either way if we get close to both/either we need to be sensible with the bowling. At least a few an over need to be on the stumps. They're going to have to score at a much higher rate than anyone has on this pitch, trying to do that against bowlers who are aiming at the stumps at least some of the time opens up the 'you miss then I hit' t20 style of taking wickets.
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We CAN'T lose this now.
Dig in Trotters and Bell.
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Could actually win this. 230+ ahead midway through the second session, put them in.
Doubt we will though, and frankly it won't matter, a series win in India is superb.
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It's not been mentioned on here as far as I can see but I've just seen it on the news - Trotty's 4 off the ridiculous no-ball.
Excellent stuff Trott - and the fact it annoyed the Indians so much makes it all the better!
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It's not been mentioned on here as far as I can see but I've just seen it on the news - Trotty's 4 off the ridiculous no-ball.
Excellent stuff Trott - and the fact it annoyed the Indians so much makes it all the better!
Yep, that was marvellous, and totally legal. Until the umpire calls dead ball he can hit it.
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We've coasted this, well done Trott and Bell.
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yup, this has been a very professional last day, hope Bell gets his century now though, will be a real shame if he's left stuck in the 90s.
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Great performance by Trott and Bell, good to see them both scoring tons.
Excellent series win for England, India don't lose many home series so quite an achievement for our new Captain.
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Well batted Warwickshire.
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Cracking effort from the second Test onwards from England. Yes it's a very average Indian side, but they still don't tend to lose at home. We now need to kick on, because up to this series this year has been poor. Hopefully we've regained our team spirit and focus. Also the batting back up looks very promising now.
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Dhoni and the Indian management must be livid at whoever prepared that pitch, they needed a win and they got the most lifeless slab of nothingness ever produced! Okay so England may have out-spun them and won 3-1 but this pitch didn't give them a hope.
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Dhoni and the Indian management must be livid at whoever prepared that pitch, they needed a win and they got the most lifeless slab of nothingness ever produced! Okay so England may have out-spun them and won 3-1 but this pitch didn't give them a hope.
Spot on, it's one of the poorest test match surfaces I've ever seen, if India had been leading and playing for a draw it'd have been a bad pitch but understandable, with them needing the win it was a terrible surface, 23 wickets and less than 1000 runs in the match backs up the thought that it was totally unsuitable as a test pitch.
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Actually, this should be in a 2013 thread but has anyone got their Ashes tickets yet?
The only ones we could get were for the Final day ( Sunday) at The Oval. Will either be a dead rubber or a proper nail biter.
Or rained off, it is bank Holiday weekend....
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Our Twenty20 team looks a bit bowler heavy!
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I managed to get the Friday of Old Trafford test for my 'Aussie' fix. Couldnt get any where near one for Trent Bridge.
Got to rely on 1 dayer at the Bears.....so if anyone hears of spare Test Match tkts going let me know......anywhere!!!
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Hales did well and Buttler at the end, but think we're short. Depends on the bowlers now. Bresnan continuing his rich batting form!
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Bresnan needs to be sent back to county cricket, he is not 50% of the player he used to be.
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Shockingly sloppy display, 10 wides.
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Meh, so we lost the baseball with our Second XI.
Won the proper cricket, that's all that matters.
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Horrendous bowling from Dernbach and Meaker.
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Bresnan is nowhere near the player he used to be.
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As Bumble says, 'Get under that'.
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As a full on test purist it's not easy for me to type this but that match shows exactly why t20 was needed to really push the sport forward, excellent match where neither side ever looked like the winner, big kudos to Morgan for going big on the last ball as well.
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That was a great game to watch. I'm a huge Test purist, but Twenty20 has its role in the game too.
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Is it just me who finds that having 2 games of 20/20 is odd?
It's now ended up 1-1 with no clear winner.
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Is it just me who finds that having 2 games of 20/20 is odd?
It's now ended up 1-1 with no clear winner.
Pure money spinning contractual obligations. There had to be some baseball because the Indians love it.
Pointless really but good to see some of our second XI getting a run out.
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In fairness Dave it's quite clear you are not a fan of Twenty20, and I understand that. But there are talented players who develop from it like Morgan. I'm sure if he gets another chance in the Test side he's learnt from his mistakes and will impress.
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But Morgan got found out at Test level and i doubt he'll ever really cement a Test place. I admire his talent, some of his shots are remarkable, same with the likes of Luke Wright and possibly Hales, they have found their role in the International scene as T20 players. Good on them but they will never be Test players, it's a whole different game.
I actually like Twenty20, it's fun, but it's a bit like comparing a game of Futsal to proper football, it's the same game in principle but it's not the real thing.
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But Morgan got found out at Test level and i doubt he'll ever really cement a Test place. I admire his talent, some of his shots are remarkable, same with the likes of Luke Wright and possibly Hales, they have found their role in the International scene as T20 players. Good on them but they will never be Test players, it's a whole different game.
I actually like Twenty20, it's fun, but it's a bit like comparing a game of Futsal to proper football, it's the same game in principle but it's not the real thing.
I disagree. I think Morgan will get himself a place in the test side, it's just that he came in at a time when the batting line up wasn't really functioning. I also think elements of t20 will make their way into test cricket (like the KP switch-hit and the dil-scoop already have to an extent). expanding the range of shots test players are comfortable with present a lot of new tactical challenges which will be interesting.
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I suppose you're allowed to disagree with me!
Nah, I just don't think Morgan will ever learn the patience needed to build Test innings, Prior and Swann can do the crash, bang, wallop stuff in the middle order if needed and they also contribute in other ways.
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Is it just me who finds that having 2 games of 20/20 is odd?
It's now ended up 1-1 with no clear winner.
Cricket has lived with concept of no clear winner for a very long time now!
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KP rested for one days in New Zealand as well. I don't mind that, it's the Tests that are key.
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RIP Tony Greig.
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Also on a less sombre note, Mike Hussey retiring from international cricket.
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Yes, it's a extremely sad day in Australia today. Tony Greig was just part of the furniture for the last 30+ years. Cricket is much more part of the national fabric in Australia than it is in England so this is a big story and tributes running all evening long on the main TV channels. A real shock and it'll be similar when Benaud goes. Only diagnosed in October so just very sad.
Anyway, surprised about Hussey although 4 kids under 8 probably give away a lot. He's been their main stay with Clarke for the last 2 years and him and Ponting going leaves a very inexperienced middle order all of a sudden.
They really wanted and we're fully expecting him to go to the Ashes so that's now two they thought they'd take with a combined 230 odd caps between them. Oh dear ;D.
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CMJ dead at 67.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/20881346
As a massive TMS fan his voice was part of cricket and formed the soundtrack to many a summer.
RIP CMJ. Thank you for many hours of listening pleasure.
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RIP, bad few days for cricket.
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Indeed a bad few days for cricket as you say Paul. There's certainly a good TMS box in the sky now with CMJ joining the likes of Arlott & Jonners.
Sports Report today played a rare instance of CMJ "corpsing" when having used a fishing analogy during a commentary he carried the analogy on by referring to the player " laying down his rod", or something similar, then went into fits of laughter a la the Jonners "getting his leg over" piece.
RIP CMJ
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Indeed a bad few days for cricket as you say Paul. There's certainly a good TMS box in the sky now with CMJ joining the likes of Arlott & Jonners.
Sports Report today played a rare instance of CMJ "corpsing" when having used a fishing analogy during a commentary he carried the analogy on by referring to the player " laying down his rod", or something similar, then went into fits of laughter a la the Jonners "getting his leg over" piece.
RIP CMJ
Real shame, along with a few others both on TMS and on sky, he's a big part of why I'm such a big fan of cricket, the pace of the game leads to some exceptional commentary and fantastic match analysis and he was one of the best.
RIP CMJ.
As an aside do we rename this thread or start a new one for 2013?
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Start a new one, particularly as the ODI's against India start next week.