England 2012 Cricket Thread

[Villan For Life]

Monty is the weak link, we're considerably weakened as a test side with him in it. I'd also rather see Bresnan in the side ahead of Patel.

Strauss hasn't scored a test century since the 2nd innings of the 1st Ashes test in Oz. He's been in a poor run of form before and was dropped. He came back and came good. I think he will again.

[alteavilla]

panasar is what hutton is to villa a complete waste of time

[PaulWinch again]

I think rounding on Panesar is a bit harsh, yes those catches were poor I accept that. However the issue is the batting not the bowling clearly.

[Dave Summers]

I think rounding on Panesar is a bit harsh, yes those catches were poor I accept that. However the issue is the batting not the bowling clearly.

Yes, our efforts in the first innings were poor and we all accept that.   However, 15/3 and 191/7 in the first innings and they were allowed to get 318?.  Second innings 127/8 and they get 214?.   That's 129 for the last three wickets in the first innings and 87 for the last two in the 2nd innings.

As I mentioned earlier, one of the traits of this England team in recent times has been to nail the opposition when they have them down.   In these conditions, the spinners had to play a role in cleaning up the innings.   Neither of the front line spinners took a wicket in the first dig and Swanny did excellently in the 2nd one.

So yes, the main problem is the batting unit.  But lets not forget that neither Broad or Panesar contributed much with the ball in this game either?

[Villan For Life]

Since Duncan Fletcher was coach the test squad has been built around players being strong in at least 2 of the disciplines, batting, bowling and fielding. Swann and Anderson are excellent bowlers and since Collingwood retired, our best slip fielders. Even Trott who was an average fielder for the Bears has worked on his fielding and is now reliable. Monty is one dimensional and a potential liability in the field.

I'm not blaming Monty for the result, you live as a team, you fail as a team. However he is the weak link in the chain and will always be so.

[paul_e]

Indeed, Broad and Panesar haven't done much with the ball, which is always going to happen with a bowler, it's in those matches where they need to bring something else to the party.  Broad scored a few important runs in the first innings (and always look capable of doing that) and is always dependable in the field, Monty is a waste of a spot if he isn't taking wickets.  That's why people will round on him and it's why he got dropped originally.

In the right conditions (like in dubai) you play him and accept the poor batting and fielding because he'll get you 7-8 wickets in the match and go at less than 2 an over as well.  Unfortunately he's never going to get beyond being the guy we bring in on twirly wickets as the 2nd spinner.

[PaulWinch again]

I think essence the last two posts are right, in the right conditions Monty is worth his place. However if it's not the right conditions the rest of his game doesn't warrant his place.

[olaftab]

Monty is not a world class spinner. Never has been never will be however he is the best bowler that England have in a left arm wrist spinner. He should only ever play if the pitch and coditions are right for him.

England's down fall here and in the Emirates was the sweep shot regularly used by batters against spin. This is not a test match shot. Sweep is a limited over method. High risk but delivers runs. NO NEED TO PLAY THIS WHEN YOU HAVE 2 DAYS TO GET 200 Mr Flower. Play proper cricket.

[Dave Cooper please]

Broad out (calf injury) so Bresnan or Finn?
Finn for me, I just think he's got the technique to get a little bit of something out of even the flattest pitches.

[Dave Summers]

England's down fall here and in the Emirates was the sweep shot regularly used by batters against spin. This is not a test match shot. Sweep is a limited over method. High risk but delivers runs. NO NEED TO PLAY THIS WHEN YOU HAVE 2 DAYS TO GET 200 Mr Flower. Play proper cricket.

The sweep shot is not a test shot?.   Sorry, but not having that at all.   It's as much as a bona fida shot as the ariel cover drive that Patel got out to yesterday.     As I mentioned earlier, the sweep Bell got out to was a perfectly acceptable choice of shot yesterday, with no men behind square on the leg side.   What was wrong was the EXECUTION of it.    That's where the problem is, not the shot.

Honestly, reading some of the former players going on about this, you would think they had never made a mistake in their careers and as usual in this country, we can't wait to put the boot in, when we go through a sticky patch.

I have said on this thread before that we have had a disappointing winter and there is no getting away from it.  But this is the first blip we have had in over 2 years.   Let's give the boys a little bit of backing, otherwise we will end up back in 1989 and using 30 players in a series again.  Bowlers will then be afraid of bowling a bad spell for fear of being dropped and batsmen will  worry about every shot they play, in case they get out.

I guess I better put my tin hat on now :-)

[Dave Summers]

Broad out (calf injury) so Bresnan or Finn?
Finn for me, I just think he's got the technique to get a little bit of something out of even the flattest pitches.

Both and leave Patel out of the team that played the first test.

Strauss, Cook, Trott, KP, Bell, Prior, Bresnan, Swann, Anderson, Finn, Panesar.

I guess with that line up we are exposed a bit batting wise from 9, 10, Jack but hopefully if we had them 7 down for not many, we would have the bowlers and energy to finish them off and not allow the 100 plus for the last 3 wkts of the first innings.

[PaulWinch again]

Broad out (calf injury) so Bresnan or Finn?
Finn for me, I just think he's got the technique to get a little bit of something out of even the flattest pitches.

Both and leave Patel out of the team that played the first test.

Strauss, Cook, Trott, KP, Bell, Prior, Bresnan, Swann, Anderson, Finn, Panesar.

I guess with that line up we are exposed a bit batting wise from 9, 10, Jack but hopefully if we had them 7 down for not many, we would have the bowlers and energy to finish them off and not allow the 100 plus for the last 3 wkts of the first innings.

I'd go with that, I think we need the extra seamer to blow away the tail. Patel didn't offer a great deal in that Test.

[Warren Aspinall]

I think we missed the 3rd seamer at times during the test. I'd go with Bresnan rather than Finn, to firm up the lower order if anything & then bring Finn in for the summer tests.

[OzVilla]

From world beaters to panel beaters within 6 months - the typical cycle of English sport continues.

I feel sorry for the bowling department who have toiled away both in Galle and the UAE on slow tracks and hot days.  Our bowling attack is as good as we've ever had, no problems there.

So on to the real problem, the mental state of the top order.  Right now, the top 5 are the best batsmen in the country, I still believe that.  But Straussy's shot in the 2nd innings told a tale of a batting unit that is uncertain mentally (he urgently needs runs now).  They desperately need some County Cricket and plenty of it to get back into the right habits and regain confidence that only time in the middkle can give them.

Sri Lanka strikes me as probably the worst place to play if you're technique is shaky, you can let alot of balls go in Oz or SA, not so in Sri Lanka where spin and lack of bounce means you have to play at much more. Also, with the top 4 all being back foot players, sub continent touring really doesn't suit them, they all like pace on the ball so they can take it on the up - they'll be not much of that in Columbo, thats one reason why they get found out so badly on these tours. 

So whatever the ICC rankings say, unfortunatley we aren't the best side in the world after all.  You don't lose 4 on the spin if you are in the manner that we have.  SA are, they have great balance, an excellent pace attack and in Jacques Kallis the best all round Cricketer to have played the game.  Followed by us, Australia and Pakistan.  India will need to rebuild as are Sri Lanka.  I just hope we can avoid a defeat in Columbo and start afresh again.

Like I said, the typical English cycle.

[Villan For Life]

Reasonable start to this test so far and certainly our best performance with the bat of the winter. I hope that they build on it on day 3 and that I get to watch some coverage on Friday on a day off!