Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on September 24, 2011, 04:12:52 PM
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Available Sunday evening.
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Typical.
But probably a fair result.
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Diabolical first half, truly. Much better in second when we tried to pass it. Bannan was really good in second and Ireland actually did ok. Bannan should have been left on. Delph and Hutton were awful.
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Awful first half, a bit better second.
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erh dare i say still unbeaten!
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McLeish out.
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Delph is bloody rubbish. Collins was awesome. Another draw.
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You've gotta be kidding me. Rolling all over the ground like a bunch of nancies they sure earned that 5 minutes extra time. We should've smashed those sorry rounders.
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When we realised we were allowed to pass the ball along the ground we played some cracking stuff. But letting in a late goal is no surprise.
but the first half was almost as bad as Nevilles Co Commentary.
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Ultimately a fair result, but injury-time own goals are hard to stomach.
With a bit more nous we could and should have held on. 3 points next week are an absolute must.
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erh dare i say still unbeaten!
Dare I say one win in six!
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I really thought the 2nd half we a lot better, Ireland came more and more into the game, looked far more hungry I would deffo start him v Wigan.
Fair result and you have to say just based on the 1st half that in itself was a vast improvement.
Really don't think I can take any more draws...
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First half awful. Second half much much better. Dare I say well done to AM for sorting them out at half time again.
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Terrible touch and control from N'Zogbia for most of much, Bannan did well with penalty cos Ferdiand was mouthing all sorts of shit at him. Diabolical first half, much better second but still with too much cutting edge and how predictable was their equalizer. Why oh why can we never hold on?
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truly awful performance 1st half, Better 2nd but even with all the luck going our way 2nd half we still couldn't hold on. Delpth is just pointless, he makes NRC seem creative. Still a point away from home is something
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In the 2nd half they were there for the taking, we didn't capitalise after scoring, they appeared to be happy to go on the break which worked to a fashion but I think we would have creamed them with a bit more belief. Dunne adds to his tally. I do wonder why it takes manager's a whole half to realise we need to use creative players for a reason. Bannan to stay in the side.
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Two very different halves. Can we replicate the second for 90 mins. Defence played well but Collins fecked up at the end for their goal. Well played Bannan.
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A first half so wretched, I can barely bring myself to think back to it.
A second half much improved, massively helped by the ref, then pissed away at the death.
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Diabolical first half, truly. Much better in second when we tried to pass it. Bannan was really good in second and Ireland actually did ok. Bannan should have been left on. Delph and Hutton were awful.
They were linking up really well second half especially when Bannan was allowed to roam from the wing as well.
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Think the ref booked N'Zog just so he had proof that he was on the pitch
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Terrible first half. Played well second half. Still got no bite in midfield but why he felt the need to take Bannan off I'll never know, he ran the show for us second half.
Collins should have put his boot through it and Hutton didn't track his man for the goal. I do think albrighton should have squared a pass to weimann just before instead of shooting. Would have been game over then.
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First half awful. Second half much much better. Dare I say well done to AM for sorting them out at half time again.
How about he sorts them out before the game starts and we won't have this problem.
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First half awful. Second half much much better. Dare I say well done to AM for sorting them out at half time again.
Well you could argue what the fuck were his tactics in first half?
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Our best performance under mcleish second half. Showed determination and bottle.
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Too many players are anonymous - Delph, Y'Zogia?, Ireland and Petrov
Too many players make basic errors - Collins, Warnock and Hutton
Our manager is clueless, he really is.
Respect to those who travelled and forked out a fortune to watch that. We are truly rubbish
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Another league game. Another draw.
Given - Dealt well with what went his way.
Hutton - Absolutely dreadful.
Dunne - Own goal aside (not sure how much it was really his fault) he was excellent today.
Collins - Did well today apart from the end of the game.
Warnock - Was almost as bad as Hutton. Dives in far too much.
Bannan - Probably our best non-defender. Took his penalty well.
Ireland - He was good in some short spells but he was far from brilliant today.
Petrov - Largely manned the midfield by himself. Did a solid unfancy job.
Delph - Poor again. Needs to be dropped for his own sake.
N'Zogbia - He had some bright spells but he made the wrong decision too often and was poor again. You can see he cares but what he is trying he cannot pull off.
Agbonlahor - He scarcely saw the ball. Not his fault.
Refereeing performance was errr strange.
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Couldnt see QPR scoring to be honest and I guess they didnt .
Expected them to get a Pen so I suppose that had to happen .
93 minute , one man up , down by the corner flag , I was dreaming of 5th place , and clean sheet and I was expecting it .
Bonus for me , I think Ireland will come good .
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First half was painful, like wimbledon of old minus the aggresion (bar the cock warnock). Second half much better and if players had picked the right pass we should have been clear. shocking defending for the goal. hutton is not a pl player. herd did nothing wrong when played there and should have been given a chance.
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Delph is bloody rubbish. Collins was awesome. Another draw.
Really i thought collins was okay but Dunne was better
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So so gutted. We should have held that. We were by far the best team in the 2nd. We should be celebrating 3 points
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I can't help but think that those two wasted corners cost us...............
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would have taken a point before the game, but why did we go so negative after we scored?
Albrighton left us exposed down the left. A bad substitution.
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Can I also say what a scumbag Traore is - after that shocking tackle on Marc, he didn't even take a second look to see if he was OK.
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Best thing about today is the options now facing AM.
Thought we'd done enough to take the 3 points. Some positive signs as to how we can play.
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We shouldn't go overboard here, we were okay against QPR - this is what we have come down to though.
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Lucky to be drawing at H-T. Unlucky to be drawing at F-T.
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Fucking amazing result! Went there for the point and we only went and fucking got it, amazing! Brilliant! Fantastic! So proud zZzZz
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I can't help but think that those two wasted corners cost us...............
Agree we started pissing around with 10 mins left
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Another league game. Another draw.
Given - Dealt well with what went his way.
Hutton - Absolutely dreadful.
Dunne - Own goal aside (not sure how much it was really his fault) he was excellent today.
Collins - Did well today apart from the end of the game.
Warnock - Was almost as bad as Hutton. Dives in far too much.
Bannan - Probably our best non-defender. Took his penalty well.
Ireland - He was good in some short spells but he was far from brilliant today.
Petrov - Largely manned the midfield by himself. Did a solid unfancy job.
Delph - Poor again. Needs to be dropped for his own sake.
N'Zogbia - He had some bright spells but he made the wrong decision too often and was poor again. You can see he cares but what he is trying he cannot pull off.
Agbonlahor - He scarcely saw the ball. Not his fault.
Refereeing performance was errr strange.
Yeah....I thought he penalty was a tad iffy, yes there was a little tugging but very tight that one....
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Thought Neil Warnocks comments were about right
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We were better in 2nd half - BUT that first half was atrocious.
Thats it - I have given up on this season. Make me eat my words in May - and I will be happy. But below 15th. Don't give a shit about "unbeaten". we have 8 of 18 possible (makes 50 points end of season, but we have played the worst sides so far. Meaning we will be lucky to hit 40)
Petrov, Collins, Dunne (no chance with goal), and Bannan were okey. Ireland was the best he has been - and still shit poor.
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First half incredibly dull and poor.
First 25 minutes of second half ok, last 20 hanging on. Cannot believe he took Bannan off instead of N'zogbia. Ireland played well second half for me, didn't give the ball away once, always finding space and instrumental in anything good we did. Ireland and Bannan MUST play. They are comfortably our best technical players. Just need to find a bit of solidity behind them.
5 draws out of 6 is so pretty poor, given who we've played. Must win next week.
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We need to play a lot
better against better teams..we have had it easy so far and that does not bode well..we threw away all the luck today!
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Thought Neil Warnocks comments were about right
What did he say.
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Warnock can fuck off, he's stupidly biased and he fucking hates reffs. Every week he has a pop at the referee. Maybe it was a soft penalty, but why did he have his shirt in his hands? They were lucky to have only had 2 bookings all game
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Lucky to be drawing at H-T. Unlucky to be drawing at F-T.
They had all the first half, we had the first 25 of the second half, then we decided to hang on for a 1 0 win.
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Bonus for me , I think Ireland will come good .
I'd agree with that, at least based on today's second half performance.
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Thought Neil Warnocks comments were about right
What did he say.
Slagged the ref.
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And Marc should have squared to Weimann when on the break near the end .
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Ahh Warnock. Collins and the No 10 whoever he was should have been sent off as well.
As for the no Villa fans behind the goal appealing for it. We don't have x ray vision so we can't see the shirt tug through Gabby. Then for Sideways Ray to say Gabby went down easy seemed very unkind. And Hutton never moved his arm towards the ball. If anything he was trying to move it out of the way.
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Given - solid.
Hutton - I'm really worried about him. He looks like some bloke just rolled out of the pub and onto the pitch. All over the shop.
Dunne - unlucky at the end, solid performance.
Collins - did very well, i thought.
Warnock - alternated between competent and frightening.
Delph - the game passed him by. Admittedly, in the first half, he didn't have much choice as the ball sailed over his head, but in the second didn't really improve.
Bannan - I'm impressed. Had a tough time along with the rest of the midfield in the first half, but kept plugging away, very coolly taken penalty. Must start next time.
Ireland - did ok, but again, couldn't get involved in the first half.
Petrov - unremarkable in both negative and positive senses.
N'Zogbia - better than previous performances, but still not what we were expecting. needs time.
Gabby - chased scraps, worked very hard.
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truly awful performance 1st half, Better 2nd but even with all the luck going our way 2nd half we still couldn't hold on. Delpth is just pointless, he makes NRC seem creative. Still a point away from home is something
This. Lack of creativity is a worry .
How many goals and points do we lose in the last couple of minutes?
QPR however deserved a point at least , defensively we have improved but we lack creativity n midfield , lets hope jenas will provide some.
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A fully fit Bent in the second half and we would have won it
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We were better in 2nd half - BUT that first half was atrocious.
Thats it - I have given up on this season. Make me eat my words in May - and I will be happy. But below 15th. Don't give a shit about "unbeaten". we have 8 of 18 possible (makes 50 points end of season, but we have played the worst sides so far. Meaning we will be lucky to hit 40)
Petrov, Collins, Dunne (no chance with goal), and Bannan were okey. Ireland was the best he has been - and still shit poor.
Agree, but I do think Ireland merits another start and I would say Wigan is nailed on for him, you have to give him that opportunity to come back, I think 2nd half, that's the best I've seen from him for a very long time...
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Unlucky today. The win that should have been was well crafted but you can not count for roll of the dice that got QPR a draw.
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I think the problem is going to come at home, he is clearly setting us out to be a pseudo counter attacking side, great when your away, hopeless at home when you have to break teams down.
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At least we didn't lose. As I thought we would.
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Warnock can fuck off, he's stupidly biased and he fucking hates reffs. Every week he has a pop at the referee. Maybe it was a soft penalty, but why did he have his shirt in his hands? They were lucky to have only had 2 bookings all game
To be fair he is always going to be biased but he didnt rant about the ref
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Thought Hutton was shocking. Could have given away two penalties with carelessly waving arms, and then is horribly out of position leaving us exposed for the equaliser. I thought he was of similar ability to Luke Young when he came. He isn't.
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I think the problem is going to come at home, he is clearly setting us out to be a pseudo counter attacking side, great when your away, hopeless at home when you have to break teams down.
Spot on.
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Does ray Wilkins know the rules? Traore was about to walk down the tunnel when he should have stayed and watched the end of the game, err don't you have to go off the pitch and down the tunnel when you get sent off? You can't stay in the playing area which includes the sidelines then.
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At least we didn't lose. As I thought we would.
Drawing is not good enough..esp when you have had the lead..again and again!
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I suppose the right result. For how bad the first half was,the second made up for it. Players moving,pressing higher up the pitch,midfielders running towards to Gabby.
Hutton seems a liability,postioning is wrong,lets players get the wrong side of him,lets them get in crosses,he'll cost us a few points this season.
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1st half the whole midfield didnt want the ball, Collins and Dunne kept us in that.
2nd half the midfield actually passed and went forward. Bannan, Petrov and Irelands distribution was good. Ireland moves the ball quickly to feet and moves into space but our players are so thick when it comes to football intelligence. Delph wants too much time and N'Zog keeps trying to dribble....into a player instead of just keeping it simple. I think Jenas will come in for Delph.
Gutted with only a point, still reminds me of another typical MON performance but I think we will get a couple of wins in before we start to play the better teams.
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At least we're becoming 'hard to beat'. When Dolly said that once he nearly got lynched.
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Thought Neil Warnocks comments were about right
I thought he was being a right prick.
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Awful performance in this first half. Decent in the second but highly predictable that we wouldn't win the game.
I'm really struggling to find reasons to carry on supporting the Villa at the moment. I've been a massive fan all my life but its getting to the point where I'm thinking whats the point. Awful football, know for a fact that we won't win anything and at the best will be mid-table. The players clearly don't give a crap, the owners have sold our best players and to top it off for the first time in 137 years we have an ex Blues manager in charge. And as fans theres nothing we can do about it except for coughing up more money to pay for idiots like Beye to sit on the bench every week and for the others to produce turgid Football every week.
I've got a ticket for Wigan next week but why should I bother going?
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Some had us down for 3-0 loss, yesterday, so better than nothing as far as predictions concerned..but still frustrated with a darw and silly way given up!
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Thought Hutton was shocking. Could have given away two penalties with carelessly waving arms, and then is horribly out of position leaving us exposed for the equaliser. I thought he was of similar ability to Luke Young when he came. He isn't.
He's alot poorer. Young is a steady Eddie type,Hutton is like a shit version of Warnock,which is saying something.
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Dreadful first half, better second. Soft penalty - I'd have been annoyed if something similar had been given against us. Bit of a sickener to concede in extra time but a draw was a fair result - especially given the number of free kicks they wasted on the edge of our box. Still waiting for N'Zogbia to impress, and couldn't understand why he took Bannan off.
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I only managed to watch the last ten minutes this afternoon, but although it sounds (from the comments on here) that Collins played well for most of the game, his defending that led to their goal was absolutely awful, really really bad.
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We can go either of two ways now - improve on the better passing that was there in the second half and start to convert draws into wins, or keep with the clueless forward play of the first half and get hammered when we play better teams.
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1st half the whole midfield didnt want the ball, Collins and Dunne kept us in that.
2nd half the midfield actually passed and went forward. Bannan, Petrov and Irelands distribution was good. Ireland moves the ball quickly to feet and moves into space but our players are so thick when it comes to football intelligence. Delph wants too much time and N'Zog keeps trying to dribble....into a player instead of just keeping it simple. I think Jenas will come in for Delph.
Gutted with only a point, still reminds me of another typical MON performance but I think we will get a couple of wins in before we start to play the better teams.
I get the impression something is wrong with N'Zogbia, he gets the ball and freezes, never seen that in him before.
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1st half the whole midfield didnt want the ball, Collins and Dunne kept us in that.
2nd half the midfield actually passed and went forward. Bannan, Petrov and Irelands distribution was good. Ireland moves the ball quickly to feet and moves into space but our players are so thick when it comes to football intelligence. Delph wants too much time and N'Zog keeps trying to dribble....into a player instead of just keeping it simple. I think Jenas will come in for Delph.
Gutted with only a point, still reminds me of another typical MON performance but I think we will get a couple of wins in before we start to play the better teams.
spot on about Nzog , seems to run into 3 players , instead of passing it simple to a Villa player.
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Gabby was fantastic. Bannan and Collins did well.
Dunne is shit, he's a decent last ditch defender but he was at fault for Newcastle's equaliser last week, the second goal on Tuesday and he's so flat footed for today.
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We won't be this lucky come December, most predicted a loss 'myself included so a point isn't too bad, right!
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By the way I thought we did well keeping Barton quiet all afternoon - at least Delph helped in that regard by softening him up earlier on.
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Impressed with mcleish's comments -not a man to be messed with me thinks!
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McCleish has turned into Wenger, well on seeing incidents on both sides anyway.
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At least from Mcleish comments the performance in the first half was not something he had put in place. He wanted us to pass it and make runs off the ball.
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Gabby was fantastic. Bannan and Collins did well.
Dunne is shit, he's a decent last ditch defender but he was at fault for Newcastle's equaliser last week, the second goal on Tuesday and he's so flat footed for today.
I think that is just silly regarding Dunne - he was man of the match today.
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I think I am most disappointed in Delph. He just looks way, way out of his depth, gives it away all the time and Petrov looks a lone ranger. I miss NRC a lot and Jenas would be straight in for him next week for me. I would even try Bannan there playing deep and seeing the game in front of him.
NZogbia has the first touch of Julian Joachim - enough said.
Albrighton should start again soon.
Ireland - give him 6-10 games in the side, I reckon he might come off, needs games but did ok for me.
Warnock - loathe him, really, really loathe him. Should be on performance related pay - losing 5k a week for every free kick given away in our 3rd.
Dunne - desperately unlucky.
Collins - played ok, too much hoof.
Bannan - kid can play, but needs to be in the game more than he is out wide.
Gabby - Lone ranger - no one near him first half.. hard work.
Eck - clearly got into them at half time, and clearly very, very pissed off with the way the players played. Fair play to him, he is clearly passionate about it all, but he has to get 90 minutes out of them. Big game next week. He is angry, I think he has been softly softly until half time today, and sounds like he really, really got into them and rightly so.
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Haven't watched the game yet, but but some very balanced views on here. I looked at the live football thingy on the BBC football thing and nearly crashed my car when they scored. Gutted that we couldn't hold on, but based on some of things said so far there were shoots of hope in the second half. We need to score goals, because we're not good enough to hold one goal leads. Feel bad for Dunney. He's been superb of late.
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Dreadful first half, better second. Soft penalty - I'd have been annoyed if something similar had been given against us. Bit of a sickener to concede in extra time but a draw was a fair result - especially given the number of free kicks they wasted on the edge of our box. Still waiting for N'Zogbia to impress, and couldn't understand why he took Bannan off.
I'll say, even Gabby gingerly claimed it also noticed Ferdinand giving Bannan some lip just before he placed the ball
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By the way I thought we did well keeping Barton quiet all afternoon - at least Delph helped in that regard by softening him up earlier on.
I thought Delph really grew during the game. The more games he plays,the better he'll get.
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First half was the worst I've ever seen a Villa team play. For QP fucking R fans to be singing "boring boring Villa" is an embarrassment and to say I was ashamed would be a understatement. It was truly appalling on every single level apart form the scoreline.
Second half was much improved apart from Charles N'Zogbia. There is something very wrong there - can't remember seeing any of his team mates interact on the pitch, either with a pass or an encouraging pat in the back. Totally isolated and unless it improves he could become our next Stephen Ireland (who was OK today in the second half) - out on loan to somebody like, erm, QPR. So far he is shocking.
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We're so much better when we keep it on the deck, we played some decent stuff in the second half. As soon as Dunne got MOTM I had visions of it all going tits up though, never mind.
Warnock is getting on my tits. Silly little man.
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Warnock is officially this seasons Holloway. The game has finished,shut up you daft prick.
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1st half they didn't show up, 2nd was much better - Ireland, Delph and Petrov did well. N'zog was terrible, as mentioned he kept running into players and not passing, poor decision making. I was expecting to lose, but if play like we did 2nd half then we'll be fine.
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Oh and I would not piss on Warnock if he were on fire, nasty bastard.
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The major change in our fortunes were that we started to play it to Gabby in the chanels and he was able to hold it up and get us up the field. Then after a great spell of play when we should hsve scored another we dropped deep. Bannan was doing a great job helping Hutton, once he came off we got exposed down the left and that led to the goal.
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By the way I thought we did well keeping Barton quiet all afternoon - at least Delph helped in that regard by softening him up earlier on.
I would argue that the system QPR played kept Barton as quiet as he seemed to be playing quite deep without bursting into the box more.
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Thought Neil Warnocks comments were about right
What did he say.
Slagged the ref.
Slagged him off again.That is a first he trully is a gobsghite.
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Warnock comes back to have another go. Fuck off.
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How are injuries coming on? I'd like to see Clark, Jenas and Herd come into today's team.
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Gabby was fantastic. Bannan and Collins did well.
Dunne is shit, he's a decent last ditch defender but he was at fault for Newcastle's equaliser last week, the second goal on Tuesday and he's so flat footed for today.
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How you can say dunne in shit is totally ridiculous after his displays this season.
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Warnock can fuck off, he's stupidly biased and he fucking hates reffs. Every week he has a pop at the referee. Maybe it was a soft penalty, but why did he have his shirt in his hands? They were lucky to have only had 2 bookings all game
To be fair he is always going to be biased but he didnt rant about the ref
Managers are subtly biased, but warnock will always be very in your face and pathetic about it. He never accepts any blame
He was condecending to him at 1st, and then had a pop about players staying on the pitch for Villa
He missed the fact that in the build up to their goal we should have had a corner again
And now he's back on ranting again. What a fucking wanker. I hate him with a passion. It was never a dive from gabby, and hutton never made an attempt to handball the 1st he knows nothing about it. The 2nd was more of a penalty imo, he shouldn't have had his hand out
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it was a soft penalty but I do hope they stamp out this shirt pulling in the penalty areas , the refs do seem to let it go ..
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1st half the whole midfield didnt want the ball, Collins and Dunne kept us in that.
2nd half the midfield actually passed and went forward. Bannan, Petrov and Irelands distribution was good. Ireland moves the ball quickly to feet and moves into space but our players are so thick when it comes to football intelligence. Delph wants too much time and N'Zog keeps trying to dribble....into a player instead of just keeping it simple. I think Jenas will come in for Delph.
Gutted with only a point, still reminds me of another typical MON performance but I think we will get a couple of wins in before we start to play the better teams.
I get the impression something is wrong with N'Zogbia, he gets the ball and freezes, never seen that in him before.
Cant fault his work rate, always behind the ball when we were defending but I think he's just trying too hard for that goal or majestic run. Signs are there's a top player in him...I think against Wigan he will bring his "A" game"
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Well Warnock has officially ranted about the ref now.
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Warnock (N) looks and acts like a pantomime dame
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Ireland was the best he has been - and still shit poor.
What on earth are you talking about?
Do you think that never giving the ball away, finding space and being involved in all our good moves is shit poor?
Aside from the defense, Bannan and Ireland were far and away our best players today.
It is absolutely ridiculous the stick that Ireland gets from some. You'd think we've got so many good players that we can afford to rubbish him.
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So based on consensus so far, Jenus will be in for Delph next game ?
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1st half the whole midfield didnt want the ball, Collins and Dunne kept us in that.
2nd half the midfield actually passed and went forward. Bannan, Petrov and Irelands distribution was good. Ireland moves the ball quickly to feet and moves into space but our players are so thick when it comes to football intelligence. Delph wants too much time and N'Zog keeps trying to dribble....into a player instead of just keeping it simple. I think Jenas will come in for Delph.
Gutted with only a point, still reminds me of another typical MON performance but I think we will get a couple of wins in before we start to play the better teams.
spot on about Nzog , seems to run into 3 players , instead of passing it simple to a Villa player.
Cant fault his work rate, always behind the ball when we were defending but I think he's just trying too hard for that goal or majestic run. Signs are there's a top player in him...I think against Wigan he will bring his "A" game"
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Well Warnock has officially ranted about the ref now.
If those decisions went against us we would be royally pissed off. I think the ref only got the sending off right.
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1st half the whole midfield didnt want the ball, Collins and Dunne kept us in that.
2nd half the midfield actually passed and went forward. Bannan, Petrov and Irelands distribution was good. Ireland moves the ball quickly to feet and moves into space but our players are so thick when it comes to football intelligence. Delph wants too much time and N'Zog keeps trying to dribble....into a player instead of just keeping it simple. I think Jenas will come in for Delph.
Gutted with only a point, still reminds me of another typical MON performance but I think we will get a couple of wins in before we start to play the better teams.
I get the impression something is wrong with N'Zogbia, he gets the ball and freezes, never seen that in him before.
Cant fault his work rate, always behind the ball when we were defending but I think he's just trying too hard for that goal or majestic run. Signs are there's a top player in him...I think against Wigan he will bring his "A" game"
What signs? I think he's awful, and he's no more likely to be any good against Wigan than he was against Newcastle.
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Surely Friedal can't be continuing his consecutive appearance record being as he wasn't picked for the first game this season.
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Well Ray Wilkins thinks we're going to be the surprise package this year I hope he's right
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Well Warnock has officially ranted about the ref now.
If those decisions went against us we would be royally pissed off. I think the ref only got the sending off right.
Warnock was right about that, except for the sending off, but that's not the point, it's the way he can't resist getting his whingeing fucking face in the camera like he's the first person to be on the end of duff refereeing.
He's entertaining enough, but he's an absolute whining weasel of a man, who I would quite gladly club senseless with a cricket bat. And he still probably wouldn't shut the fuck up.
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Surely Friedal can't be continuing his consecutive appearance record being as he wasn't picked for the first game this season.
Yes he was.
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Surely Friedal can't be continuing his consecutive appearance record being as he wasn't picked for the first game this season.
Yes he was -and they got thrashed at old trafford in it.
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Ireland was the best he has been - and still shit poor.
What on earth are you talking about?
Do you think that never giving the ball away, finding space and being involved in all our good moves is shit poor?
Aside from the defense, Bannan and Ireland were far and away our best players today.
It is absolutely ridiculous the stick that Ireland gets from some. You'd think we've got so many good players that we can afford to rubbish him.
I second that. Intelligent player and used the ball very well and moved int the right space every time.
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Well Warnock has officially ranted about the ref now.
If those decisions went against us we would be royally pissed off. I think the ref only got the sending off right.
Warnock was right about that, except for the sending off, but that's not the point, it's the way he can't resist getting his whingeing fucking face in the camera like he's the first person to be on the end of duff refereeing.
He's entertaining enough, but he's an absolute whining weasel of a man, who I would quite gladly club senseless with a cricket bat. And he still probably wouldn't shut the fuck up.
Colin Wanker
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Warnock can fuck off, he's stupidly biased and he fucking hates reffs. Every week he has a pop at the referee. Maybe it was a soft penalty, but why did he have his shirt in his hands? They were lucky to have only had 2 bookings all game
To be fair he is always going to be biased but he didnt rant about the ref
Managers are subtly biased, but warnock will always be very in your face and pathetic about it. He never accepts any blame
He was condecending to him at 1st, and then had a pop about players staying on the pitch for Villa
He missed the fact that in the build up to their goal we should have had a corner again
And now he's back on ranting again. What a fucking wanker. I hate him with a passion. It was never a dive from gabby, and hutton never made an attempt to handball the 1st he knows nothing about it. The 2nd was more of a penalty imo, he shouldn't have had his hand out
It was never a dive if that's what he saying, I would be the first to hold my hands up and say Gabby took advantage and on that was lucky to get it, I think a lot of Ref's may have not given it, but at the end of the day, your a defender, you tug a players shirt in the box, what does he expect, Intelligent play by Gabby..
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We should have had a penalty when delph missed but was taken out by the Goalie, there was an incident when Gabby was pushed over in the box and not given aswell. i thought the ref was crap for both teams
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Having just watched the replays, I think I'm probably going to be on my own here but I thought the shirt-tug on Gabby was correctly judged - it stops him going for a header, so he has to stretch hopelessly with his leg. That's a penalty in my book.
As for Hutton's handballs, the second one was not even close to being a penalty (it was the sort of thing Andy Gray always used to claim should be a penalty). The first...yeah, it could have been given but it doesn't look as obvious to me as it seems to Ray Wilkins that he was moving his arm to the ball. I though he tucked his arm in, to be honest.
And Warnock coming out again to complain to the cameras about the referee? That's just really poor form, he should be ashamed of himself.
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I think the ref got the big decisions right.
Despite Neville's argument Gabby clearly did appeal for a foul and did have his shirt pulled.
Handball is never a foul unless it's deliberate so neither Hutton handball was a foul.
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Warnock (N) looks and acts like a pantomime dame
Maybe he's a closet Villa fan. Yes darlings, you know who you are.
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Well Warnock has officially ranted about the ref now.
If those decisions went against us we would be royally pissed off. I think the ref only got the sending off right.
Warnock was right about that, except for the sending off, but that's not the point, it's the way he can't resist getting his whingeing fucking face in the camera like he's the first person to be on the end of duff refereeing.
He's entertaining enough, but he's an absolute whining weasel of a man, who I would quite gladly club senseless with a cricket bat. And he still probably wouldn't shut the fuck up.
Colin Wanker
76 points.
*wink*
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Well Warnock has officially ranted about the ref now.
If those decisions went against us we would be royally pissed off. I think the ref only got the sending off right.
Warnock was right about that, except for the sending off, but that's not the point, it's the way he can't resist getting his whingeing fucking face in the camera like he's the first person to be on the end of duff refereeing.
He's entertaining enough, but he's an absolute whining weasel of a man, who I would quite gladly club senseless with a cricket bat. And he still probably wouldn't shut the fuck up.
Yes, that's bang on. He is the biggest moaning c*** the game has ever seen.
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Warnock (N) looks and acts like a pantomime dame
Maybe he's a closet Villa fan. Yes darlings, you know who you are.
Aren't you tired of this act yet Mark?
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1st half the whole midfield didnt want the ball, Collins and Dunne kept us in that.
2nd half the midfield actually passed and went forward. Bannan, Petrov and Irelands distribution was good. Ireland moves the ball quickly to feet and moves into space but our players are so thick when it comes to football intelligence. Delph wants too much time and N'Zog keeps trying to dribble....into a player instead of just keeping it simple. I think Jenas will come in for Delph.
Gutted with only a point, still reminds me of another typical MON performance but I think we will get a couple of wins in before we start to play the better teams.
I get the impression something is wrong with N'Zogbia, he gets the ball and freezes, never seen that in him before.
Cant fault his work rate, always behind the ball when we were defending but I think he's just trying too hard for that goal or majestic run. Signs are there's a top player in him...I think against Wigan he will bring his "A" game"
What signs? I think he's awful, and he's no more likely to be any good against Wigan than he was against Newcastle.
He has been awful, so what you saying, he was born awful, what I'm saying is he came into the game more and more and definitely figured in the 2nd half, now you have to put his money where is mouth is a give him the chance, better v Wigan than anybody else IMO, if he's showing signs you can't ignore that.
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Ireland was the best he has been - and still shit poor.
What on earth are you talking about?
Do you think that never giving the ball away, finding space and being involved in all our good moves is shit poor?
Aside from the defense, Bannan and Ireland were far and away our best players today.
It is absolutely ridiculous the stick that Ireland gets from some. You'd think we've got so many good players that we can afford to rubbish him.
Talking more sense again, TWR.
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1st half the whole midfield didnt want the ball, Collins and Dunne kept us in that.
2nd half the midfield actually passed and went forward. Bannan, Petrov and Irelands distribution was good. Ireland moves the ball quickly to feet and moves into space but our players are so thick when it comes to football intelligence. Delph wants too much time and N'Zog keeps trying to dribble....into a player instead of just keeping it simple. I think Jenas will come in for Delph.
Gutted with only a point, still reminds me of another typical MON performance but I think we will get a couple of wins in before we start to play the better teams.
I get the impression something is wrong with N'Zogbia, he gets the ball and freezes, never seen that in him before.
Cant fault his work rate, always behind the ball when we were defending but I think he's just trying too hard for that goal or majestic run. Signs are there's a top player in him...I think against Wigan he will bring his "A" game"
What signs? I think he's awful, and he's no more likely to be any good against Wigan than he was against Newcastle.
The same signs when Downing joined and he was bunk in his first season and then become our player of the year. N'Zog never had to defend and put in a shift at Wigan like he did today. Yea I said he needs to stop trying to beat a player every single time and give it simple but I think its a case of just trying too hard at a new club. Give him time as you know he wasn't rubbish at Newcastle or Wigan.
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MOTM - The Ref.
Yet again another draw. Why are we so scared to try and get another goal? We're dropping points as we did last season. How can anyone trust the back 4. All of them are total shit when it comes to being composed.
Hutton and N'Zogbia look to be garbage buys as well. I mean, really really garbage.
Back to the dark days of DOL with no positive hope.
You can see the next match. Villa 1 - 1 Wigan and outplayed.
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Given - Not much to do to be honest
Hutton - Come back Cuellar, all is forgiven.
Dunne - Back to his best, unlucky with the own goal.
Collins - Solid if not spectacular.
Warnock - I've yet to see him play better than Shorey did for us.
Delph - Think he is trying too hard. Could do with a break when Jenas is fit.
Petrov - Solid
Ireland - Second half I thought he was starting to show us what he can do.
Bannan - Very good in the second half on the ball, and plenty of energy too.
N'Zogbia - Meh
Agbonlahor - Plenty of running but not given much in the way of service.
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How are injuries coming on? I'd like to see Clark, Jenas and Herd come into today's team.
Me too!
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Well Warnock has officially ranted about the ref now.
If those decisions went against us we would be royally pissed off. I think the ref only got the sending off right.
His first appearance wasn't too bad as he showed some class which is not normally associated with him. It was the fact he then decided to come back in front of the cameras in the tunnel ( first time ever any manager has done that) and then had a full on blast about everything.
Traore had Gabbys shirt in his hands for a few seconds and although it might not have had an effect, to say he just blew on him and Gabby went down is very disrespectful as he tried to stretch for the ball with his leg as he couldn't have tried to heading it due to the pull back. It probably should have been a pen for the first but Hutton didn't move his arm at the ball, it looked more like he was pulling it back.
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Ireland and Bannan were very good second half, and that sort of possession based interplay is something I'd like to see a lot more of.
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How many players are we waiting to come good?
I saw glimpses of first touch football in the second half that were outstanding, so there is hope
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I honestly don't get how anyone can really moan too much about any of our midfielders based on the first half, when they spent 45 minutes watching the ball sail over their heads.
What are they meant to do in those circumstances?
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Well Warnock has officially ranted about the ref now.
If those decisions went against us we would be royally pissed off. I think the ref only got the sending off right.
Warnock was right about that, except for the sending off, but that's not the point, it's the way he can't resist getting his whingeing fucking face in the camera like he's the first person to be on the end of duff refereeing.
He's entertaining enough, but he's an absolute whining weasel of a man, who I would quite gladly club senseless with a cricket bat. And he still probably wouldn't shut the fuck up.
Colin Wanker
76 points.
*wink*
Applause!
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Ireland and Bannan were very good second half, and that sort of possession based interplay is something I'd like to see a lot more of.
True that!
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Warnock (N) looks and acts like a pantomime dame
Maybe he's a closet Villa fan. Yes darlings, you know who you are.
Aren't you tired of this act yet Mark?
Absolutely, can't you and others just save it for the traditional pantomine season?
Try and get behind the team, they were throwing bodies in today like real warriors, fighting for the cause. Our fans there were superb too. We're in a difficult place at the moment, it might help if we all go behind the lads. Confidence in football is massive.
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1st half the whole midfield didnt want the ball, Collins and Dunne kept us in that.
2nd half the midfield actually passed and went forward. Bannan, Petrov and Irelands distribution was good. Ireland moves the ball quickly to feet and moves into space but our players are so thick when it comes to football intelligence. Delph wants too much time and N'Zog keeps trying to dribble....into a player instead of just keeping it simple. I think Jenas will come in for Delph.
Gutted with only a point, still reminds me of another typical MON performance but I think we will get a couple of wins in before we start to play the better teams.
I get the impression something is wrong with N'Zogbia, he gets the ball and freezes, never seen that in him before.
Cant fault his work rate, always behind the ball when we were defending but I think he's just trying too hard for that goal or majestic run. Signs are there's a top player in him...I think against Wigan he will bring his "A" game"
What signs? I think he's awful, and he's no more likely to be any good against Wigan than he was against Newcastle.
The same signs when Downing joined and he was bunk in his first season and then become our player of the year. N'Zog never had to defend and put in a shift at Wigan like he did today. Yea I said he needs to stop trying to beat a player every single time and give it simple but I think its a case of just trying too hard at a new club. Give him time as you know he wasn't rubbish at Newcastle or Wigan.
Whilst i agree about N'Zogbia needing time (and Downing is a perfect example of that), do you really believe the bit in bold?
He frequently had to put in a major shift for Wigan, and usually did so, too.
It was probably the most defining change in the player who used to play for Newcastle.
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First half, although they had a majority of the game, Shay didn't have much to do, and at the end of the half, we were on top and didn't want the whistle to go for half time. We started brilliantly in the second half, went for them, and deserved the goal, and although the penalty was slightly harsh, our dominance and play merited a goal. Bannan was fantastic in the second half, my MOTM.
I feel Mcleish threw the points away though, by making us too negative. We were playing some good attacking football, then Bannan goes off, and we invite the pressure on to us. I dont know if anyone else spotted it or has mentioned, but when we won the corner in injury time, and the idea was to keep the ball in the corner flag. The camera cut to Mcliesh before it was taken, and he was signalling 'seven' to the players, I think meaning that he wanted seven players in our half. That is just asking for trouble.
Oh and Joey Barton is a filthy cheating racist ******
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The penalty decision, IMO, you challenge a player that way and you risk all, he did tug the shirt, the notion behind doing that was for the player to gain a pecuniary advantage, it was in the box, that's a foul, the fact that Gabby then went down only emphasised the incident, to say he dived in order to sway a judgement call is b*ll*x
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Warnock (N) looks and acts like a pantomime dame
Maybe he's a closet Villa fan. Yes darlings, you know who you are.
Aren't you tired of this act yet Mark?
Absolutely, can't you and others just save it for the traditional pantomine season?
Try and get behind the team, they were throwing bodies in today like real warriors, fighting for the cause. Our fans there were superb too. We're in a difficult place at the moment, it might help if we all go behind the lads. Confidence in football is massive.
What has happened to the Mark who used to weep salty tears for weeks watching MON's Groundhog football?
What have you done with him?
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Ireland and Bannan were very good second half, and that sort of possession based interplay is something I'd like to see a lot more of.
This.
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Warnock (N) looks and acts like a pantomime dame
Maybe he's a closet Villa fan. Yes darlings, you know who you are.
Aren't you tired of this act yet Mark?
Absolutely, can't you and others just save it for the traditional pantomine season?
Try and get behind the team, they were throwing bodies in today like real warriors, fighting for the cause. Our fans there were superb too. We're in a difficult place at the moment, it might help if we all go behind the lads. Confidence in football is massive.
You were as critical of the team as anybody under the later days of O'Neill, and yet these days you seems to have appointed yourself as the new Chris Smith. Your choice of course, but calling other fan "drama queens" every other post is deeply pathetic, even more so given your record.
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When we play the ball to feet, we look a half decent side. I thought the passing was good in the second half - we had some opportunities to break in the last 20 mins and should have killed the game.
We need to be patient while McLeish finds the right blend but he needs to find places for Ireland and Bannon.
I was cautiously encouraged by the second half.
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The second half has given me some hope for the season that we can play to feet and take the game to the opposition.
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Ireland and Bannan were very good second half, and that sort of possession based interplay is something I'd like to see a lot more of.
Absolutely. I mentioned how they clicked together even in the 15 minutes against Brags; two natural footballers, both technically gifted. What we need is to allow them the freedom to express themselves, whilst they continue to chase things down, playing their part in our defence. As I said earlier, there's plenty for AM to think about after today, lots of it positive, it's all about finding the right balance, especially in midfield.
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Warnock (N) looks and acts like a pantomime dame
Maybe he's a closet Villa fan. Yes darlings, you know who you are.
Aren't you tired of this act yet Mark?
Absolutely, can't you and others just save it for the traditional pantomine season?
Try and get behind the team, they were throwing bodies in today like real warriors, fighting for the cause. Our fans there were superb too. We're in a difficult place at the moment, it might help if we all go behind the lads. Confidence in football is massive.
What has happened to the Mark who used to weep salty tears for weeks watching MON's Groundhog football?
What have you done with him?
Good question. I haven't seen a more obvious and flawed attempt at reinventing one's image since Joey Barton started quoting famous philosophers.
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Pleased with the point now I have calmed down, based on what I saw first half and thinking we would get thumped 3-0 beforehand
Very sorry though for Gary Neville that QPR didn't win
He would make as crap a referee as he is a commentator...
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First half, although they had a majority of the game, Shay didn't have much to do, and at the end of the half, we were on top and didn't want the whistle to go for half time. We started brilliantly in the second half, went for them, and deserved the goal, and although the penalty was slightly harsh, our dominance and play merited a goal. Bannan was fantastic in the second half, my MOTM.
I feel Mcleish threw the points away though, by making us too negative. We were playing some good attacking football, then Bannan goes off, and we invite the pressure on to us. I dont know if anyone else spotted it or has mentioned, but when we won the corner in injury time, and the idea was to keep the ball in the corner flag. The camera cut to Mcliesh before it was taken, and he was signalling 'seven' to the players, I think meaning that he wanted seven players in our half. That is just asking for trouble.
Oh and Joey Barton is a filthy cheating racist c***
Yep I thought Bannan's contribution was massive, he did show a little naivety in certain area's but you would expect that and he will learn, took the penalty like a good un, having had Ferdinand give him some verbal which he should have got booked for IMO.
Came out in the 2nd half and showed they actually listened to the manager, that in itself speaks volumes for both team and manager.
However we did resort to a negative style and that lets the opposition come back at you.
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I thought our penalty was soft, although I agree that their defender brought in on himself as thats the risk you take when you make contact.
I also think we were lucky not to give away at least one penalty for handball. I thought both were but could see why the first one wasn't given as Hutton kept his arms by his sides and made no movement with them towards the ball. I thought the second one was stonewall as Hutton had his arms outstretched, blocking the cross into the box.
We've used up a bit of luck today.
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1st half the whole midfield didnt want the ball, Collins and Dunne kept us in that.
2nd half the midfield actually passed and went forward. Bannan, Petrov and Irelands distribution was good. Ireland moves the ball quickly to feet and moves into space but our players are so thick when it comes to football intelligence. Delph wants too much time and N'Zog keeps trying to dribble....into a player instead of just keeping it simple. I think Jenas will come in for Delph.
Gutted with only a point, still reminds me of another typical MON performance but I think we will get a couple of wins in before we start to play the better teams.
I get the impression something is wrong with N'Zogbia, he gets the ball and freezes, never seen that in him before.
Cant fault his work rate, always behind the ball when we were defending but I think he's just trying too hard for that goal or majestic run. Signs are there's a top player in him...I think against Wigan he will bring his "A" game"
What signs? I think he's awful, and he's no more likely to be any good against Wigan than he was against Newcastle.
The same signs when Downing joined and he was bunk in his first season and then become our player of the year. N'Zog never had to defend and put in a shift at Wigan like he did today. Yea I said he needs to stop trying to beat a player every single time and give it simple but I think its a case of just trying too hard at a new club. Give him time as you know he wasn't rubbish at Newcastle or Wigan.
Whilst i agree about N'Zogbia needing time (and Downing is a perfect example of that), do you really believe the bit in bold?
He frequently had to put in a major shift for Wigan, and usually did so, too.
It was probably the most defining change in the player who used to play for Newcastle.
Oh don't get me wrong, of course he had to do his bit but not in the way I think Mcleish wants his team set up defensively compared to how Martinez does, hence why they concede so many goals as they don't defend the ball as a unit. Ok, his final ball or or jink past a player is lacking so far but at least he knows that and does get back behind the ball working to get it back. I'm just saying I have seen far too many players join a new club and take time to bed in, I believe he will become a good player for us.
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I'm no McLeish fan, but he interviews well.
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I thought our penalty was soft, although I agree that their defender brought in on himself as thats the risk you take when you make contact.
I also think we were lucky not to give away at least one penalty for handball. I thought both were but could see why the first one wasn't given as Hutton kept his arms by his sides and made no movement with them towards the ball. I thought the second one was stonewall as Hutton had his arms outstretched, blocking the cross into the box.
We've used up a bit of luck today.
I think the 4th minute of stoppage time equalizing won goal actually evens things up a bit.
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I don't see how Eck can get slagged for this. Their goal was sloppy and tired defence. Not much he could do about an akward bounce. Also we attacked when we scored and we were attacking until the end. It was end to end when we scored
Am I the only one who thinks collins had a bad game, he jumps in too much, gives the ball away and fouls way too many times. The only comment I agree with Warnock on today was that he should have been walking. Whens Cuellar due back?
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The second half showed that we can play decent football when we don't hoof the ball all over the place. We should have scored a second on the break when Marc 'Trying too hard' Albrighton and Andy Weimann could have passed it into the net if they had put some thought into their play.
The first half showed all of our worst habits - long balls, poor movement, poor control and a lack of thinking.
I'm not ready to write this season off yet as long as we can play football for 90 minutes each game.
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I'm no McLeish fan, but he interviews well.
he obviously did well in the interview with Randy
*wink*
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Well that was er, interesting. The first 35 mins or so we were embarrassingly abysmal. Shocking passing and holding onto the ball led us to being under near constant pressure. Then for the last 5 mins or so and the first 20 of the second half we looked a much better side. Although we still created very little from open play.
Never a pen for me, but i'll take it when it's in our favour. Thought they should have had one for the first Hutton handball.
But why when we are playing pretty well and have just scored do we stop playing and start playing deeper? It's just asking for trouble, time wasting with 10 minutes to go? We were lucky not to be punished by any of the stupid freekicks we kept giving away. And what the fuck was Collins doing for their goal? Basic errors and negativity costs us 2 points in the end.
Bannan was superb, why the hell was he taken off, he didn't look injured to me.
Delph and Hutton, why are they starting? I thought both were shocking today. I'd rather give Gardner a go in place of Delph with Beye at RB.
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I thought it was the other way round on the pens. Hutton had time on the first one,and did have his arms by his sides,but moved his body towards the ball and it hit his arm. second one,he was about to yards away and couldnt react.
Our pen was soft,but there was some contact and i could see why it was given,either way Warnock (n) is a cnut.
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Warnock (N) looks and acts like a pantomime dame
Maybe he's a closet Villa fan. Yes darlings, you know who you are.
Aren't you tired of this act yet Mark?
Absolutely, can't you and others just save it for the traditional pantomine season?
Try and get behind the team, they were throwing bodies in today like real warriors, fighting for the cause. Our fans there were superb too. We're in a difficult place at the moment, it might help if we all go behind the lads. Confidence in football is massive.
You were as critical of the team as anybody under the later days of O'Neill, and yet these days you seems to have appointed yourself as the new Chris Smith. Your choice of course, but calling other fan "drama queens" every other post is deeply pathetic, even more so given your record.
Hardly as pathetic as some posts on here. If it helps, I'll refrain from using the term 'drama queen' and replace it with 'eunuchs', as it seems obvious some need to grow a pair. As for Chris, yes it does concern me, we're talking about a bloke that always defends the indefensible but after only 6 games, I think he may finally have found solid ground.
I'm more confident AM can get us playing some decent football, as we witnessed in parts during the second half today than I ever was under the jurrasic approach of MON. Time will tell but at least I'm prepared to give him a few games before casting my judgement, unlike the moronic approach of some who only hate him because he came from the Rags or played shit football at the Sty. We both know even Ferguson couldn't get that lot playing anything but shite football. It is who they are and always have been.
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To be honest, with the number of people who are overwhelmingly negative about the club as things stand, Mark's positivity is a welcome diversion and creates some kind of balance.
And we have no shortage of members who have been calling for McLeish to go or describing him as a bluenose wanker or some such.
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The most remarkable thing about today's game was hearing Ray Wilkins and Brad Friedel, who I thought between them might provide some sort of analysis slightly above the normal moronic level of pre-game Sky panels, saying Wright-Phillips should be close to an England recall.
Luckily for all of us, he was as crap as ever. Mind you, that probably gets you into the England team these days
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Really struggling to understand why anyone at all would question our penalty, whether that be Warnock, Wilkins or any other pratt who likes to think they can make up rules. Gabby's shirt was pulled (very clearly) which stopped any chance he had of getting on the end of the cross - fact! This is a foul - fact! It was in the penalty area so a penalty is the only correct decision - fact! Whether people want to call it "soft" or not is up to them - but it was an intentional foul in the penalty area.
Why the debate?
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Barry Bannan's energy and willingness to always want the ball means he should start every week for me. Not as a winger or as a wide midfielder but in the middle of the pitch where he can help to influence the pace in which we play. If we are away from home he needs to play in front of the back four - not as some kind of defensive lynch pin but as the player who will get the ball off our back four and try and pass it to the likes of Ireland and N'Zogbia rather than the likes of Collins hoof it 70yards. Against some of the weaker teams he needs to play more an orthodox central midfielder albeit as part of a central three. He'll have some poor games for sure but we need to play him there, he's confident and wants to play, McLeish needs to be brave enough to do it IF he wants to play good football.
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I'm no McLeish fan, but he interviews well.
he obviously did well in the interview with Randy
*wink*
What is your best quality? Defensive coaching
What is your worst quality? Inability to coach midfield pass and move football
How will you cope with Villa fans reacting badly to getting the relegated Blues' boss? If they fell for proud history bright future, those suckers will fall for anything.
Would you like a large budget? Desperately
How would you cope with a budget tighter than a gnat's chuff? Please gimme the job, I'm desperate, please don't let me stay with the Noses, I cannot face going up then going down again.
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Really struggling to understand why anyone at all would question our penalty, whether that be Warnock, Wilkins or any other pratt who likes to think they can make up rules. Gabby's shirt was pulled (very clearly) which stopped any chance he had of getting on the end of the cross - fact! This is a foul - fact! It was in the penalty area so a penalty is the only correct decision - fact! Whether people want to call it "soft" or not is up to them - but it was an intentional foul in the penalty area.
Why the debate?
I agree, clear as daylight to me, even more so on the replay. What you need to understand however is that it isn't a penalty in the view of 'Einstein' Neville as most other players get away with that all the time. So that definitely doesn't make it a penalty in his pea sized brain. He should know after all, playing for Man Utd of course...
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To be honest, with the number of people who are overwhelmingly negative about the club as things stand, Mark's positivity is a welcome diversion and creates some kind of balance.
And we have no shortage of members who have been calling for McLeish to go or describing him as a bluenose wanker or some such.
I honestly don't understand why people are so angry and negative about the villa? So we haven't got the money to compete? So what? Neither of the most of the other sides in the league. We just have to get on with it and stop slagging off people left right and centre. Supporting a team should be about enjoying yourself and getting behind the team as a group of fans, not getting stressed out every game and throwing your toys out the pram when things don't go your way.
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Good poit Richard, It was like this QPR team were world beaters, but if you have a look at that team there is nothing to be frightened of at all. SWP showed what we have all known for some time, lots of ability but no end product. Joey Barton is decent but not exceptional. Ferdinand is very ordinary.
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The 1st half was exactly what I expected. The 2nd half, however I expected to be right up against it for the 1st 20 mins but it was the complete opposite of that. We played much better, be didn't really create a great deal.
What I saw today was no lack of effort from anyone but in the 1st half completely no idea what they were trying to do. 2nd half the midfielders supported gabby and it got better. Draw probably the right result but 0-0 probably a more realistic score.
Gary Neville..... could Sky employ anyone with less charisma?? Makes Trevor Francis almost palatable and exciting.
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What has happened to the Mark who used to weep salty tears for weeks watching MON's Groundhog football?
What have you done with him?
Good question. I haven't seen a more obvious and flawed attempt at reinventing one's image since Joey Barton started quoting famous philosophers.
It may have escaped you both but we've lost Young, Downing and NRC, our three best players last season. What do you think I should do, throw the towel in and give up? I prefer to support a team that shows battle and grit, basic, traditional Villa values. There was enough today in the second half to give hope that we can finally step up, despite the financial cut backs.
I also have confidence in Sid and especially Kevin McDonald to get us playing the right way, even with our restricted squad. I do wonder what would have been the response on here today if we'd won. My guess is some would have pissed off in a sulk.
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Whenever we got the ball down and played through the midfield, we looked fine. The problem is, that was embarrassingly too low an amount of the time.
Whenever the ball went back to Given, you knew where it was going: right over the heads of our talented midfield, towards Gabby who would bee surrounded by two players bigger than him, who probably wouldn't win the flick-on and, even if he did, the ball would end up with their defence. I don't know if this is the fault of the defenders for running away from the keeper, or Given's fault for not telling them to stay put. However, you'd like to think that if McLeish told them to pass it out they would, which seems to imply heavily that he's not.
When the equaliser happened, flukey as it was, it was what you get from not keeping the ball and inviting a home team onto you, something even more criminal when you consider they were down to ten men. We're still unbeaten, but another way to look at it would be that if we'd lost one and won one more we'd have more points than we do now. This was meant to be McLeish's forgiving, easy start as well, and he's won a single game.
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I thought that we were poor in the 1st half. If we play like that against better teams we will be destroyed.
In the 2nd half we were much better and at times pretty good to watch. Wee Barry was immense and Gabby had a good game. N'Zogbia showed signs of a return to form and our defenders threw themselves at everything (OG aside).
I'm concerned by the differences between the 1st and 2nd half performances. Is the manager sending them out to not conceed in the 1st half and hope to nick one in the second? Or are our players incapable of stepping up a gear without a bollocking from the manager?
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The second half was infinately better than the first, but only because the first half was totally and utterly inept.
Lets face it, QPR are not Barcelona. They will struggle this season, yet we made them look like worldbeaters.
I really, really worry about what will happen to us this season.
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I'm really struggling to find reasons to carry on supporting the Villa at the moment. I've been a massive fan all my life but its getting to the point where I'm thinking whats the point. Awful football, know for a fact that we won't win anything and at the best will be mid-table. The players clearly don't give a crap, the owners have sold our best players and to top it off for the first time in 137 years we have an ex Blues manager in charge. And as fans theres nothing we can do about it except for coughing up more money to pay for idiots like Beye to sit on the bench every week and for the others to produce turgid Football every week.
I've got a ticket for Wigan next week but why should I bother going?
To support the team you say you love so dearly? So what if he's ex-Blues? He's someone doing his job, he's hardly a die-hard Bluenose. What would you have said about Peter Withe? There have been far worse times than this in our proud history.
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Warnock (N) looks and acts like a pantomime dame
Maybe he's a closet Villa fan. Yes darlings, you know who you are.
Aren't you tired of this act yet Mark?
Absolutely, can't you and others just save it for the traditional pantomine season?
Try and get behind the team, they were throwing bodies in today like real warriors, fighting for the cause. Our fans there were superb too. We're in a difficult place at the moment, it might help if we all go behind the lads. Confidence in football is massive.
You were as critical of the team as anybody under the later days of O'Neill, and yet these days you seems to have appointed yourself as the new Chris Smith. Your choice of course, but calling other fan "drama queens" every other post is deeply pathetic, even more so given your record.
Hardly as pathetic as some posts on here. If it helps, I'll refrain from using the term 'drama queen' and replace it with 'eunuchs', as it seems obvious some need to grow a pair. As for Chris, yes it does concern me, we're talking about a bloke that always defends the indefensible but after only 6 games, I think he may finally have found solid ground.
I'm more confident AM can get us playing some decent football, as we witnessed in parts during the second half today than I ever was under the jurrasic approach of MON. Time will tell but at least I'm prepared to give him a few games before casting my judgement, unlike the moronic approach of some who only hate him because he came from the Rags or played shit football at the Sty. We both know even Ferguson couldn't get that lot playing anything but shite football. It is who they are and always have been.
Yeah, just ignore the fact he has 2 Premier League relegations and had a higher net spend than Wigan who played more attacking and open football.
Oh, at least he won the Carling Cup last year. Where are we in that cup again?
Oh, at least he won stuff at Scotland. Any Mickey Mouse manager who manages Rangers or Celtic in the Scottish League can win stuff.
Oh, at least we're unbeaten in the Premier League under him. Yeah, 5 draws and 1 win against no top 6 teams is really top 10 material isn't it? Newcastle are a better example of having a GOOD unbeaten run. Man City will end it anyway so no point banging on about it.
Oh, at least he got us playing good attacking football in the second half. Oh yeah, for about no more than 15 mins where somehow we got magically got a pen and decided to sit back deep allowing QPR to attack, attack, attack. Never seen that before. Oh wait, Newcastle rings the bell.
The fact is in time you and others in time will be fickle when we find ourselves in the bottom half of the table by winter for not picking up enough wins, where as the losts start to mount up with harder fixtures. And I expect you to apology in particular for sterotyping and throwing random insults because YOU THNIK that the reason why we don't want McLeish is due to coming from our neighbours. The same unbelieveable lazy argument that's been used for months now. I can understand the board thinking that way due to them being clueless, but the fans? Unforgivable.
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The second half was infinately better than the first, but only because the first half was totally and utterly inept.
Lets face it, QPR are not Barcelona. They will struggle this season, yet we made them look like worldbeaters.
I really, really worry about what will happen to us this season.
I too fear we could be in a very bad place come 1st January and when the fixtures have evened themselves out. I cling to the hope that Jenas might come in and strike up an understanding with Bannan and Ireland, that N'Zogbia will find some form and we might just start to create enough chances for Bent to keep us lower mid table rather than in the relegation zone. I am not that confident however at this moment in time I have to say...
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Warnock (N) looks and acts like a pantomime dame
Maybe he's a closet Villa fan. Yes darlings, you know who you are.
Aren't you tired of this act yet Mark?
Absolutely, can't you and others just save it for the traditional pantomine season?
Try and get behind the team, they were throwing bodies in today like real warriors, fighting for the cause. Our fans there were superb too. We're in a difficult place at the moment, it might help if we all go behind the lads. Confidence in football is massive.
You were as critical of the team as anybody under the later days of O'Neill, and yet these days you seems to have appointed yourself as the new Chris Smith. Your choice of course, but calling other fan "drama queens" every other post is deeply pathetic, even more so given your record.
Hardly as pathetic as some posts on here. If it helps, I'll refrain from using the term 'drama queen' and replace it with 'eunuchs', as it seems obvious some need to grow a pair. As for Chris, yes it does concern me, we're talking about a bloke that always defends the indefensible but after only 6 games, I think he may finally have found solid ground.
I'm more confident AM can get us playing some decent football, as we witnessed in parts during the second half today than I ever was under the jurrasic approach of MON. Time will tell but at least I'm prepared to give him a few games before casting my judgement, unlike the moronic approach of some who only hate him because he came from the Rags or played shit football at the Sty. We both know even Ferguson couldn't get that lot playing anything but shite football. It is who they are and always have been.
Yeah, just ignore the fact he has 2 Premier League relegations and had a higher net spend than Wigan who played more attacking and open football.
Oh, at least he won the Carling Cup last year. Where are we in that cup again?
Oh, at least he won stuff at Scotland. Any Mickey Mouse manager who manages Rangers or Celtic in the Scottish League can win stuff.
Oh, at least we're unbeaten in the Premier League under him. Yeah, 5 draws and 1 win against no top 6 teams is really top 10 material isn't it? Newcastle are a better example of having a GOOD unbeaten run. Man City will end it anyway so no point banging on about it.
Oh, at least he got us playing good attacking football in the second half. Oh yeah, for about no more than 15 mins where somehow we got magically got a pen and decided to sit back deep allowing QPR to attack, attack, attack. Never seen that before. Oh wait, Newcastle rings the bell.
The fact is in time you and others in time will be fickle when we find ourselves in the bottom half of the table by winter for not picking up enough wins, where as the losts start to mount up with harder fixtures. And I expect you to apology in particular for sterotyping and throwing random insults because YOU THNIK that the reason why we don't want McLeish is due to coming from our neighbours. The same unbelieveable lazy argument that's been used for months now. I can understand the board thinking that way due to them being clueless, but the fans? Unforgivable.
If the cap fits..
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Thought their penalty appeals were unjustified. The first Barton was completely impeding Given and the ref should have blown for that, the second was non existent. For our penalty there was a pull on the shirt and therefore a pen. For their goal we should have had a corner and we would have tun down the clock. Although we were shit in the first half we looked good in the second and very good in patches.
We were robbed.
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@villaboy:
Because the Wigan game is massive, i appreciate the instant response is that its Wigan, but after nearly lifting all 3 point today will we take anything from that 2nd half into the Wigan game and build form there, have the players now got a groove they can work on, do they now have an empathy with the manager because they absolutely responded to him the minute they walked on the pitch for the 2nd half.
So, the Wigan game has become a benchmark point in the season, is this the start of the season or was this just a quirky 2nd half that will be forgotten.
Has McLiesh just found his team in terms of understanding, are we going finally to see players like Stephen Ireland hit some kind of form, Barry Bannen IMO has just stepped up a level, this Wigan game is a must win for Villa.
If for nothing else there is lots of reason's to get down there and see how this unfolds.
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6 yellow cards and countless fouls says it all: we will not defend slim leads if we keep giving possession away in the form of set pieces. Very frustrating, really.
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Yeah, just ignore the fact he has 2 Premier League relegations and had a higher net spend than Wigan who played more attacking and open football.
Oh, at least he won the Carling Cup last year. Where are we in that cup again?
Oh, at least he won stuff at Scotland. Any Mickey Mouse manager who manages Rangers or Celtic in the Scottish League can win stuff.
Oh, at least we're unbeaten in the Premier League under him. Yeah, 5 draws and 1 win against no top 6 teams is really top 10 material isn't it? Newcastle are a better example of having a GOOD unbeaten run. Man City will end it anyway so no point banging on about it.
Oh, at least he got us playing good attacking football in the second half. Oh yeah, for about no more than 15 mins where somehow we got magically got a pen and decided to sit back deep allowing QPR to attack, attack, attack. Never seen that before. Oh wait, Newcastle rings the bell.
The fact is in time you and others in time will be fickle when we find ourselves in the bottom half of the table by winter for not picking up enough wins, where as the losts start to mount up with harder fixtures. And I expect you to apology in particular for sterotyping and throwing random insults because YOU THNIK that the reason why we don't want McLeish is due to coming from our neighbours. The same unbelieveable lazy argument that's been used for months now. I can understand the board thinking that way due to them being clueless, but the fans? Unforgivable.
Stay well away from sharp objects
Do you go to games these days?
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McCleish has turned into Wenger,
And the award for the most bizarre statement of the year goes to...................
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McCleish has turned into Wenger,
And the award for the most bizarre statement of the year goes to...................
And if you had included the rest of my quote?
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The match was dire for most part, but an away match against a newly promoted team managed by Neil Warnock is never going to be pretty.
In the end it's a decent away point, but I fear that our lack of organization and composure will cost us against better teams. Sometimes effort isn't enough.
As for the Alex McLeish arguement: It seems as if the players work hard for him; he is probably a good motivator. Yet, the fact is that we are scrapping for draws against mediocre (at best) teams. He is yet to put out a team that looks like a coherent unit. I feel that the signs aren't too promising.
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The problem is that it does not matter what team he selects it looks unbalanced because the squad looks unbalanced.
If you put all the players based on form, availability and the fact there are no suitable alternatives you still end up with a team of misfits.
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The match was dire for most part, but an away match against a newly promoted team managed by Neil Warnock is never going to be pretty.
You say it like it was them that dragged the quality of the game down and wasted time, when it was the opposite. We looked like the promoted side for much of the game.
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It may have escaped you both but we've lost Young, Downing and NRC, our three best players last season. What do you think I should do, throw the towel in and give up? I prefer to support a team that shows battle and grit, basic, traditional Villa values. There was enough today in the second half to give hope that we can finally step up, despite the financial cut backs.
I also have confidence in Sid and especially Kevin McDonald to get us playing the right way, even with our restricted squad. I do wonder what would have been the response on here today if we'd won. My guess is some would have pissed off in a sulk.
Well for someone who was doing their nut when we bought Milner and others but had not bought a striker three seasons ago and appeared to give up posting on here when called against it, it does seem rich to moan about others doing the same when we are in a totally different and in most cases worst position then that time.
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Thought Neil Warnocks comments were about right
What did Colin say?
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We played some lovely pass and move stuff in the second half, that's what McLeish has been talking about for weeks so it's safe to assume that is how he wants us to play. What we now need to see is a performance like that from the start. For next week I'd start with the same team and (if they're fit) give Bent and Jenas 20 minutes.
I've been very critical of Ireland in the past but he looked like a player today and helped link things together well.
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The match was dire for most part, but an away match against a newly promoted team managed by Neil Warnock is never going to be pretty.
You say it like it was them that dragged the quality of the game down and wasted time, when it was the opposite. We looked like the promoted side for much of the game.
To be fair if it was roles reversed and we were the home side, people on here would be seething with the amount they created. They looked completely toothless.
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First half - er...we defended well? Everything else was shockingly bad.
Second half - what a difference. Ireland and Delph got forward, N'Zogbia showed signs of why we bought him and both full-backs had an attacking presence. We actually started to look adventurous and a good side.
AM should show the players that period in the second half to the players until it goes into their heads that they are capable of passing the ball and moving it around.
Friedel even commented at half-time that they are very good passers of the ball. Now we need to do it for longer periods, starting against a Wigan team who will not come to sit back and defend like most teams will at Villa Park, giving us the perfect opportunity to show we are capable of playing football that's interesting to watch.
Totally gutted about the last minute equaliser, but I ended the game with some new found hope for the season!
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The match was dire for most part, but an away match against a newly promoted team managed by Neil Warnock is never going to be pretty.
In the end it's a decent away point, but I fear that our lack of organization and composure will cost us against better teams. Sometimes effort isn't enough.
As for the Alex McLeish arguement: It seems as if the players work hard for him; he is probably a good motivator. Yet, the fact is that we are scrapping for draws against mediocre (at best) teams. He is yet to put out a team that looks like a coherent unit. I feel that the signs aren't too promising.
I think the point about scrapping for points is a good point, but think about this.
2nd half today the lads came out and looked an entirely different team, Stephen Ireland actually started to run, actually tracked back, we actually played some nice tight short passing game in parts , and we played with pace, we found openings, so my point would be, you include Cuellor, Clark, Bent, give games to Gardener, bring the pace of Jermaine Jenas into the midfield area's to link up with Gabby and Bent box to box and has McLiesh finally, maybe just found a formula that may work, put it this way, I think had Bent been playing today on the 2nd half performance we would have taken all the points, combine that with players coming back.
There is a team there, it all depends on how it develops, starting next week IMO.
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Typical fucking villa!
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So based on consensus so far, Jenus will be in for Delph next game ?
And Clark for Stan.
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aye. we were lucky they had boothroyd up front. He makes Ivanhoe look dangerous
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The match was dire for most part, but an away match against a newly promoted team managed by Neil Warnock is never going to be pretty.
You say it like it was them that dragged the quality of the game down and wasted time, when it was the opposite. We looked like the promoted side for much of the game.
To be fair if it was roles reversed and we were the home side, people on here would be seething with the amount they created. They looked completely toothless.
Yes, QPR was far from a threat. With a bit discipline and organization we could have easily avoided the equaliser. Yet we were in disarray, the end of the match was end-to-end when we should have been controlling. So when Collins lost a duel, Dunne was completely in the wrong position, running towards his own goal, and then we know what happens.
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I don't think there was anything 'lovely' in that game.
3 or 4 decent passing movements in a 90 minute match ,for me does not constitute a brave new dawn.
Even the shittest teams have one or two movements in a game that are less shit than the rest of the time.
We have gone so far backwards, any semblence of anything decent is being exaggerated.
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On reflection not a bad point and it pissed off a lot of the pundits who were itching for QPR to get a home win.
There seemed a couple of signs that we might be starting our campaign at last but the lack of creativity from Ireland (although he was "tidy") and N'zog (especially) is being slightly tempered by BB's emergence.
We certainly put it about today as well - was it 6 bookings?
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I don't think there was anything 'lovely' in that game.
3 or 4 decent passing movements in a 90 minute match ,for me does not constitute a brave new dawn.
Even the shittest teams have one or two movements in a game that are less shit than the rest of the time.
We have gone so far backwards, any semblence of anything decent is being exaggerated.
After the Bolton game any signs of improvement shouldn't be under estimated. Today we saw a small glimmer of light of how the team can play. (although taking Bannan off was plain fucking stupid)
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The match was dire for most part, but an away match against a newly promoted team managed by Neil Warnock is never going to be pretty.
You say it like it was them that dragged the quality of the game down and wasted time, when it was the opposite. We looked like the promoted side for much of the game.
To be fair if it was roles reversed and we were the home side, people on here would be seething with the amount they created. They looked completely toothless.
Yes, QPR was far from a threat. With a bit discipline and organization we could have easily avoided the equaliser. Yet we were in disarray, the end of the match was end-to-end when we should have been controlling. So when Collins lost a duel, Dunne was completely in the wrong position, running towards his own goal, and then we know what happens.
It was end to end but was that due to the fact that we where still trying to win the game, away from home and closing a game is always a very dangerous risky business, I thought we lost our shape a little towards the end but then I thought QPR did also because they had to press the game.
I thought the 2nd half was the best example this season of our tenacity and strength in the team, it's how this pans out v Wigan which will tell the tale.
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I don't think there was anything 'lovely' in that game.
3 or 4 decent passing movements in a 90 minute match ,for me does not constitute a brave new dawn.
Even the shittest teams have one or two movements in a game that are less shit than the rest of the time.
We have gone so far backwards, any semblence of anything decent is being exaggerated.
After the Bolton game any signs of improvement shouldn't be under estimated. Today we saw a small glimmer of light of how the team can play. (although taking Bannan off was plain fucking stupid)
Agree.
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2nd half was an improvement on Bolton. 1st half was just as bad imo. Got to remember is if we play like that against a team with strikers it won't matter if we're better in the 2nd half - we'll already be 2 or 3 nil down.
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The match was dire for most part, but an away match against a newly promoted team managed by Neil Warnock is never going to be pretty.
You say it like it was them that dragged the quality of the game down and wasted time, when it was the opposite. We looked like the promoted side for much of the game.
To be fair if it was roles reversed and we were the home side, people on here would be seething with the amount they created. They looked completely toothless.
Yes, QPR was far from a threat. With a bit discipline and organization we could have easily avoided the equaliser. Yet we were in disarray, the end of the match was end-to-end when we should have been controlling. So when Collins lost a duel, Dunne was completely in the wrong position, running towards his own goal, and then we know what happens.
It was end to end but was that due to the fact that we where still trying to win the game, away from home and closing a game is always a very dangerous risky business, I thought we lost our shape a little towards the end but then I thought QPR did also because they had to press the game.
I thought the 2nd half was the best example this season of our tenacity and strength in the team, it's how this pans out v Wigan which will tell the tale.
The 2nd half was much better, I agree. If we build on this and manage to find some defensive balance in midfield, then there's a decent Premier League team there. And that's probably the best we can hope for considering how decimated the team has been during the summer.
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The match was dire for most part, but an away match against a newly promoted team managed by Neil Warnock is never going to be pretty.
You say it like it was them that dragged the quality of the game down and wasted time, when it was the opposite. We looked like the promoted side for much of the game.
To be fair if it was roles reversed and we were the home side, people on here would be seething with the amount they created. They looked completely toothless.
Yes, QPR was far from a threat. With a bit discipline and organization we could have easily avoided the equaliser. Yet we were in disarray, the end of the match was end-to-end when we should have been controlling. So when Collins lost a duel, Dunne was completely in the wrong position, running towards his own goal, and then we know what happens.
It was end to end but was that due to the fact that we where still trying to win the game, away from home and closing a game is always a very dangerous risky business, I thought we lost our shape a little towards the end but then I thought QPR did also because they had to press the game.
I thought the 2nd half was the best example this season of our tenacity and strength in the team, it's how this pans out v Wigan which will tell the tale.
The 2nd half was much better, I agree. If we build on this and manage to find some defensive balance in midfield, then there's a decent Premier League team there. And that's probably the best we can hope for considering how decimated the team has been during the summer.
Agree
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can someone explain the tactics and substitutions for the last 20 minutes
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Just back from game, first half was poor. But second half the Villa were much brighter and playing some decent stuff at times.
Ireland spent much of the first half argueing with Stan, i reckon A M gave the team a bollocking at half time judging by the way they started the second half.
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can someone explain the tactics and substitutions for the last 20 minutes
We took off a youngster who had also played on Tuesday and replaced him with a player who should be able to benefit from running at a tired defence.
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can someone explain the tactics and substitutions for the last 20 minutes
We took off a youngster who had also played on Tuesday and replaced him with a player who should be able to benefit from running at a tired defence.
brilliant
and what was weimen doing
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A fair result all considered. Some good stuff 2nd half albeit Delph has gone from being a liability to someone who frightens me when the ball comes near him. Why can't he just play it simple and look for the easy pass instead of trying some flick or other such shit that never comes off? Hutton too is no better than any of the kids that could fill in at right back, far too many mistakes.
On a positive note, I'm looking forward to what Barry Bannan could become for us and there are signs that Ireland can be the player we thought he might be. We'd have won that game comfortably with Bent in the side, I hope he's back next week.
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can someone explain the tactics and substitutions for the last 20 minutes
McLeish was trying to get a second goal. However, the problem is that our central midfield lack any sort of tactical awareness. Both Petrov, Delph and Ireland were out of position when QPR countered. So the result was end-to-end football and quite risky. I would have liked to see Gardner. It's not ideal to throw in youngster to defend an away lead, but a bit more discipline in midfield, and we would have won IMO.
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I just hope AM puts delph out to pasture. Does nothing IMO. Another transfer masterclass from MON - 6m on a guy not much more effective than osbourne.
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Not impressed with Hutton or Delph at all.
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can someone explain the tactics and substitutions for the last 20 minutes
We took off a youngster who had also played on Tuesday and replaced him with a player who should be able to benefit from running at a tired defence.
brilliant
I think that's going too far, pragmatic is the word I'd use.
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Not impressed with Hutton or Delph at all.
No they were not good. Hutton was extremely worrying.
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I just hope AM puts delph out to pasture. Does nothing IMO. Another transfer masterclass from MON - 6m on a guy not much more effective than osbourne.
It just isn't a thread without a Greg Nash dig at Martin O'Neill.
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I just hope AM puts delph out to pasture. Does nothing IMO. Another transfer masterclass from MON - 6m on a guy not much more effective than osbourne.
It just isn't a thread without a Greg Nash dig at Martin O'Neill.
He has a point.
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I just hope AM puts delph out to pasture. Does nothing IMO. Another transfer masterclass from MON - 6m on a guy not much more effective than osbourne.
not sure what Delph does or is good at, not a defensive midfielder, not a winger, not great at tackling not an attacking midfielder, he does cover ground
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Really heartening to see some positivity on here tonight.
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I went today at half time I was tempted to go back to the coach, it was worse than Tuesday, second half was much better, Collins apart from the goal was brilliant, it may have helped if he had a bit of help from Hutton!!
I thought Delph did ok today not brilliant but much better than everton. Ireland did well 2nd half should have taken our chances, Albrighton bit greedy at the end and should have been a corner before they scored but hey. Overall probably a fair result but need to start winning some games
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Whilst him losing the ball was an issue, I thought Delph getting forward with Petrov sitting was at the heart of some of our better plays, especially when linking with Bazza and Ireland.
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I just hope AM puts delph out to pasture. Does nothing IMO. Another transfer masterclass from MON - 6m on a guy not much more effective than osbourne.
It just isn't a thread without a Greg Nash dig at Martin O'Neill.
Well he's awful. 600k maybe but 6m?!
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I went today ....
Why didn't you claim for the Penalty against Gabs because according to Colin Wanker and Wilkins, because you didn't claim for it, it wasn't a penalty.
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Ignoring the important bit, the match for a minute, we got rolled over in the post match analysis.
Our pen was a pen. If you pull someones shirt a little bit, whether the players goes down or not in the box, it's a pen. Cynical pros say it goes on all the time. Doesn't matter, it was a pen.
Their claims for pens were wrong. Even the pundits said first one was ball to hand. Their main claim was the shot on goal that hit Hutton. However before the ball hit Hutton, even the pundits accepted Batrton was fouling Given, as had been at all the set pieces. Therefore free kick to us.
Their goal, even Wilkins accepted it should have earlier been a corner to us not a goal kick.
AM didn't see the replays before he did his interviews. Warnock after his, did and went back and did another. All neutrals now think QPR were robbed. Rubbish we lost the post match.
It would not be expensive to have someone reviewing the TV and briefing our manager before he gives his interviews.
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I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think we'd have won had we had Jenas on the bench to help close it out.
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Bannan and Ireland need to be given more games together.Delph does some good things, but makes to many mistakes atm.Still have high hopes for him, but when Jenas is fit, i would give him a rest for a while.
I might be on my own, but i thought Warnock had a reasonable game today, as for me did N'Zog.
2nd half for me was quite encouraging, as was Ray Wilkins words.Top 8 for me.
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I just hope AM puts delph out to pasture. Does nothing IMO. Another transfer masterclass from MON - 6m on a guy not much more effective than osbourne.
It just isn't a thread without a Greg Nash dig at Martin O'Neill.
Well he's awful. 600k maybe but 6m?!
Depth is good player. By the end of this season we will regard him as our future. Except N'ash of course.
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I was actually a bit reassured by AM's post match words: he mentioned tackling, passing, attacking and 2 or 3 of the players not playing as well as they should, and he had to tell them to do these things at half time. What the f*** do our boys think they go out there for in the first half? (or the whole game on Tuesday!!!)
When we moved up 20/25 yards in the 2nd half and actually started doing a bit of that running around thing and passing to each other thing we took the pressure off ourselves and looked good.
Dear Team,
please start playing from the beginning of games, like most teams do.
Yours sincerely,
ST Holder (worried)
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I think that Delph is a decent enough player. Not the superstar that some predicted, but by no means terrible.
He's probably a lower midtable midfielder.
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Delph and N'Zogbia are worries still. Barry Bannan will probably be our star player by the end of the season. We need to supply our forwards throughout the game. If you set up to defend in the hope you will nick a goal, you run the risk of seeing your hard work come to nought if a scrappy goal is given away in injury time. Always thought we needed the cushion of a second goal but we didn't really seek one in the final twenty minutes.
Jury's out. We're solid and hard to beat but we don't look like winning many games which is major worry. We need to improve in the final third.
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I think that Delph is a decent enough player. Not the superstar that some predicted, but by no means terrible.
He's probably a lower midtable midfielder.
It strikes me that the midfield is a bit of a mush: No one quite seems to know where they are playing or why. Delph definitely moved up and left in the 2nd half and looked good at times. Need to see more from Ireland - we're carrying him at the moment. Bannan in flashes ok. Stan works his nuts off but not always effectively. Jenas might be the missing link? Or, I might be able to make it on Saturday if I miss the last round in the Bartons and just have the 3. Do they do Balti pies in the dressing room at half time?
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I think that Delph is a decent enough player. Not the superstar that some predicted, but by no means terrible.
He's probably a lower midtable midfielder.
He's 22 and missed most of the last 2 years through injury. Give the kid a break. He will one day be our best player.
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We were better in 2nd half - BUT that first half was atrocious.
Thats it - I have given up on this season. Make me eat my words in May - and I will be happy. But below 15th. Don't give a shit about "unbeaten". we have 8 of 18 possible (makes 50 points end of season, but we have played the worst sides so far. Meaning we will be lucky to hit 40)
Petrov, Collins, Dunne (no chance with goal), and Bannan were okey. Ireland was the best he has been - and still shit poor.
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Villa for ever!!!
Love your signature
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I think that Delph is a decent enough player. Not the superstar that some predicted, but by no means terrible.
He's probably a lower midtable midfielder.
He's 22 and missed most of the last 2 years through injury. Give the kid a break. He will one day be our best player.
Quite.
I thought he was gash today, but fuck me, we're all about throwing players right on the dump these days aren't we?
I also wonder if the bright sparks writing N'Zogbia off are the same ones who were writing Stewart Downing off, but have learned nothing in the meantime.
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Yeah I don't think we should be writing off N'Zog and Delph. It's a bit quick.
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If we had turned up for the first half, we'd have won the game comfortably. I cannot understand why the team showed QPR so much respect. Some great passing and movement in the 2nd half and we got some breaks in what was ultimately, a fortunate point. Also, Alan Hutton should concentrate on his own game instead off slagging off former managers. He was atrocious.
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We were about 90 seconds away from 5th place in the Premier League and but for a very unfortunate deflection would sitting pretty so we are clearly not the useless bag of toss some people would have you believe
The first half was insipid at best and McLeish acknowledged that there were a few individuals performing well below what was acceptable. I think Hutton, Delph and N'Zogbia fall into that category and would like to see Fabian and Charles given a rest and Jenas get a chance alongside Stan.
Collins, Dunne were tremendous today, Given solid, Bannan and Ireland had some encouraging link up play in the second half and lest us forget we have a £25 million striker still to come back into the side.
Not a great performance or result but seem to recall a lot of doom mongers predicting a 2-3 goal defeat.
Onwards and upwards...
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And we are still unbeaten in the League... ;0)
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I think that Delph is a decent enough player. Not the superstar that some predicted, but by no means terrible.
He's probably a lower midtable midfielder.
He's 22 and missed most of the last 2 years through injury. Give the kid a break. He will one day be our best player.
Quite.
I thought he was gash today, but fuck me, we're all about throwing players right on the dump these days aren't we?
I also wonder if the bright sparks writing N'Zogbia off are the same ones who were writing Stewart Downing off, but have learned nothing in the meantime.
Have to admit I don't think he's up to much. He might come good, but a few weeks of doing OK for Wigan seem to have blinded a few people. He's nowhere near as good as Young or Downing, not by a long chalk.
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I just hope AM puts delph out to pasture. Does nothing IMO. Another transfer masterclass from MON - 6m on a guy not much more effective than osbourne.
It just isn't a thread without a Greg Nash dig at Martin O'Neill.
Well he's awful. 600k maybe but 6m?!
Depth is good player. By the end of this season we will regard him as our future. Except N'ash of course.
I hope you're right but i can't help feeling its the price tag that sparing him from criticism. I used to get all sorts of stick for pointing out Davies was bobbins, and he was. But because he cost us a fortune a lot of people didn't want to face the obvious.
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I think that Delph is a decent enough player. Not the superstar that some predicted, but by no means terrible.
He's probably a lower midtable midfielder.
He's 22 and missed most of the last 2 years through injury. Give the kid a break. He will one day be our best player.
Quite.
I thought he was gash today, but fuck me, we're all about throwing players right on the dump these days aren't we?
I also wonder if the bright sparks writing N'Zogbia off are the same ones who were writing Stewart Downing off, but have learned nothing in the meantime.
Have to admit I don't think he's up to much. He might come good, but a few weeks of doing OK for Wigan seem to have blinded a few people. He's nowhere near as good as Young or Downing, not by a long chalk.
But is he as good as Downing was in his first five games?
That's the question.
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I think that Delph is a decent enough player. Not the superstar that some predicted, but by no means terrible.
He's probably a lower midtable midfielder.
He's 22 and missed most of the last 2 years through injury. Give the kid a break. He will one day be our best player.
I was hardly having a go at Delph, as the first line of my post will show. As I said, decent player. I didn't say he was awful or shite or anything like that.
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But is he as good as Downing was in his first five games?
That's the question.
I don't think there's much mileage in comparing players. For everyone who came good after a shaky start (eg Downing) there are just as many, if not more who started off shit and stayed shit (eg Harewood, Sidwell)
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Forgive me generalising. Also haven't read the preceeding 16 pages. So, off the cuff.
Watched the game live. (TV). Crap. Tactically inept. First half....
"boring , boring Villa" chant. That hurt because it is true. Overun by QPR?
What is this man doing?
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We started the '80/81 and '92/93 seasons with loads of draws against average teams, didn't we? It's gonna be a fab season. Relax!
(But) Hold on to your seats!
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We started the '80/81 and '92/93 seasons with loads of draws against average teams, didn't we? It's gonna be a fab season. Relax!
(But) Hold on to your seats!
The empty ones?
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But is he as good as Downing was in his first five games?
That's the question.
I don't think there's much mileage in comparing players. For everyone who came good after a shaky start (eg Downing) there are just as many, if not more who started off shit and stayed shit (eg Harewood, Sidwell)
Of course, but it seems to me that five (or is it six?) league games is very little to judge a player on, especially when the player he (nominally) is replacing, himself took half a season to come good, and then did so in very convincing fashion.
I can see plenty of things to moan about at the moment, and I'm disappointed CNZ hasn't hit the ground running, but these are early days, and it seems harsh to write him off after such a short spell
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I think that Delph is a decent enough player. Not the superstar that some predicted, but by no means terrible.
He's probably a lower midtable midfielder.
He's 22 and missed most of the last 2 years through injury. Give the kid a break. He will one day be our best player.
I was hardly having a go at Delph, as the first line of my post will show. As I said, decent player. I didn't say he was awful or shite or anything like that.
That's fair enough but the only way Delph, Bannan, Gardiner and now weinman will improve is with experience and playing, like all young players.
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The problem is that we are relying on Delph and N'Zogbia. There is too much pressure on both of them which definitely is not helping them.
A few months back we had a discussion about Delph and concluded that if he played 10-20 games, made something of a break through and stayed injury free it would be a good season for him. Now he's expected to be a critical part of our team for forty odd games.
It's much too early to write him off. I mean it was only six months ago that the majority of posters were convinced he was going to be world class.
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We started the '80/81 and '92/93 seasons with loads of draws against average teams, didn't we? It's gonna be a fab season. Relax!
(But) Hold on to your seats!
You are Seattle Villain and I claim my £100 from Dave Woodhall.
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We started the '80/81 and '92/93 seasons with loads of draws against average teams, didn't we? It's gonna be a fab season. Relax!
(But) Hold on to your seats!
Whatever happened to Seattle Villain?
I always suspected he was General Krulak, and now the way they've both disappeared so abruptly and without trace has made me think I must have been right.
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I think that Delph is a decent enough player. Not the superstar that some predicted, but by no means terrible.
He's probably a lower midtable midfielder.
He's 22 and missed most of the last 2 years through injury. Give the kid a break. He will one day be our best player.
Quite.
I thought he was gash today, but fuck me, we're all about throwing players right on the dump these days aren't we?
I also wonder if the bright sparks writing N'Zogbia off are the same ones who were writing Stewart Downing off, but have learned nothing in the meantime.
I agree completely. They have both been poor, and should not be starting next week for me, certainly not Delph, but at 22 Delph has it all ahead of him still. He just needs to learn and start playing a bit.
NZogbia needs a rocket, to concentrate and some bloody ball control!
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As someone has already said on here, he needs to sit them down and show them the first 20 minutes of the second half and brainwash them so that they believe they can do that for 90 minutes.
Brad (who I thought spoke very well about all things Villa) and Ray Wilkins both stated that there are some good passers and footballers in that team. They just have to know they can do it all the match and not need the almighty boll*****g that AM said he gave them at half time before they start to perform.
They have a full week now without any interuptions so let's hope that AM, Sid and Kevin etc can get into their minds and make them believe.
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I noticed Stephen Warnock didn't even look when Bannan took the penalty,didn't even react either,what does that say about him?
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Fredm :Fair enough. But believe what? To draw is good. A clean sheet is a victory?
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I noticed Stephen Warnock didn't even look when Bannan took the penalty,didn't even react either,what does that say about him?
He's nervous about our penalties? Superstitious maybe? I wouldn't read too much into that.
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It's not pretty at the moment is it? I mean today was all about two teams who are gonna struggle to score goals this season. QPR, after their opening day disaster, now look more solid defensively so it was always gonna be a case of taking something out of few chances, or a bit of luck. As it was we got a lucky pen, and they had a slice of fortune with their goal. That aside no one else really looked like they could hit a barn door. Bothroyd couldn't finish his dinner.
It's part tactics, part midfield imbalance, and partly a lack of form and/or quality with certain players. We can debate till the cows come home whether Delph, N'Zogbia and Ireland will cut it, whether Albrighton and Bannan are good enough etc. Hopefully they'll hit form, but just as easily it seems they'll continue to plod along. Certainly we miss the reliability of Milner, and last season Downing. Definitely we miss Ash Young, who even on a bad game, which he had a lot of last season, would always pose a threat.
It also says a lot that we're missing Heskey. We're in a mess. The squad's too small. The bench today was ridiculous. We need new owners now, and we need to get in a decent manager to take us forward. For a club with no money, I see no logic in selling Luke Young and then signing Hutton for 4 million, and coming from Spurs, no doubt will be on a similar, if not higher wage than Luke Young. But I'd have Luke over Hutton any day of the week. To be fair, he was ok today though.
I expect a long, hard season of ugly football and boring games. I also don't foresee McLeish getting sacked if results go awry. It'd mean the board forking out even more money on managers departed, and I think that fund is closed now. No matter what happens, Randy will see it through to the bitter end with Mcleish for a season or two. That is, unless he sells up to the first person willing to meet his price.
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That first half performance was just downright embarrassing. Completely inept. How hard is it to string 4-5 passes together.
Delph and N'Zogbia were shockingly bad .
I feel bad for Dunne, he did well all game but he can't be blamed for the equalizer, Collins and Hutton can.
At half time I'd have taken a draw, at 92 minutes I wouldn't.
Oh well. There will be worse performances this season, I'd like to think there will be better.
We are fcuked when we start meeting some decent opposition.
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I noticed Stephen Warnock didn't even look when Bannan took the penalty,didn't even react either,what does that say about him?
It means absolutely nothing.
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While it's gutting to concede in the 93rd minute, most of us would have taken a draw before kick off and it was a much improved performance from the ones against Newcastle and Bolton.
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I noticed Stephen Warnock didn't even look when Bannan took the penalty,didn't even react either,what does that say about him?
That he knew Bannan would score? That there was nothing he could do anyway? Warnock is really committed this season. Just wonder about his fitness.
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Very annoying to concede in the last minute after defending well for most of the game. We looked solid at the back and after watching all of QPR's free kicks from the edge of the box blasted high and wide I really thought it was going to be our day zipping into 5th position.
We actually played a lot better than I thought. People can criticize for how negative McLeish can be, but today he got his tactics all but spot on.
We look like a hard team to beat at the moment, but then again we haven't exactly played a top team yet. If we can somehow start scoring more goals whilst remaining solid in defence, I have some faith restored.
P.S. Bent wasn't on the bench, when and how did he get injured?
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I noticed Stephen Warnock didn't even look when Bannan took the penalty,didn't even react either,what does that say about him?
What about when he flattened Barton? Someone had to do it. Everyone seemed to enjoy it where I was sitting.
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Very annoying to concede in the last minute after defending well for most of the game. We looked solid at the back and after watching all of QPR's free kicks from the edge of the box blasted high and wide I really thought it was going to be our day zipping into 5th position.
We actually played a lot better than I thought. People can criticize for how negative McLeish can be, but today he got his tactics all but spot on.
We look like a hard team to beat at the moment, but then again we haven't exactly played a top team yet. If we can somehow start scoring more goals whilst remaining solid in defence, I have some faith restored.
P.S. Bent wasn't on the bench, when and how did he get injured?
He came off injured last weekend.
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Very annoying to concede in the last minute after defending well for most of the game. We looked solid at the back and after watching all of QPR's free kicks from the edge of the box blasted high and wide I really thought it was going to be our day zipping into 5th position.
We actually played a lot better than I thought. People can criticize for how negative McLeish can be, but today he got his tactics all but spot on.
We look like a hard team to beat at the moment, but then again we haven't exactly played a top team yet. If we can somehow start scoring more goals whilst remaining solid in defence, I have some faith restored.
P.S. Bent wasn't on the bench, when and how did he get injured?
Bent has had a groin strain for a few games and went off with it against Newcastle.
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We need new owners now, and we need to get in a decent manager to take us forward.
How about we get new owners and give McLeish a chance?
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Just home from the game. First half they picked up from where they left off against Bolton reserves. Second half was very much better and for the first time this season there were real signs that McLeish wants them to play passing football. Delph badly needs somebody alongside him to direct and control him. Ireland must have had the mother of bollockings at half time because he actually showed some classy touches in the second half. Marc's total loss of confidence is very worrying. He should have left Barry Bannan on our cutting edge was lost when he was replaced.
Much happier about McLeish.
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Very annoying to concede in the last minute after defending well for most of the game. We looked solid at the back and after watching all of QPR's free kicks from the edge of the box blasted high and wide I really thought it was going to be our day zipping into 5th position.
We actually played a lot better than I thought. People can criticize for how negative McLeish can be, but today he got his tactics all but spot on.
We look like a hard team to beat at the moment, but then again we haven't exactly played a top team yet. If we can somehow start scoring more goals whilst remaining solid in defence, I have some faith restored.
P.S. Bent wasn't on the bench, when and how did he get injured?
I'm not a huge fan of his tactic that involves the team looking like a sorry collection of incompetent idiots that can't keep hold of the ball for more than 2 passes. They must have put in savage work in training this week so look so ridiculously inept as they did in the first half today. Disgraceful. Thank Christ they actually got it together some bit in the 2nd half.
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We're shit. McLeish out. (and yes i would have said the same if we'd won 1-0 because we were diabolical yet again and didn't have a shot on target in open play).
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We're shit. McLeish out. (and yes i would have said the same if we'd won 1-0 because we were diabolical yet again and didn't have a shot on target in open play).
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We're shit. McLeish out. (and yes i would have said the same if we'd won 1-0 because we were diabolical yet again and didn't have a shot on target in open play).
What was your prediction for the score again?
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Very annoying to concede in the last minute after defending well for most of the game. We looked solid at the back and after watching all of QPR's free kicks from the edge of the box blasted high and wide I really thought it was going to be our day zipping into 5th position.
We actually played a lot better than I thought. People can criticize for how negative McLeish can be, but today he got his tactics all but spot on.
We look like a hard team to beat at the moment, but then again we haven't exactly played a top team yet. If we can somehow start scoring more goals whilst remaining solid in defence, I have some faith restored.
P.S. Bent wasn't on the bench, when and how did he get injured?
I'm not a huge fan of his tactic that involves the team looking like a sorry collection of incompetent idiots that can't keep hold of the ball for more than 2 passes. They must have put in savage work in training this week so look so ridiculously inept as they did in the first half today. Disgraceful. Thank Christ they actually got it together some bit in the 2nd half.
I'm discounting first half as I only watched the last 10 minutes of the first half.
The way he set up his team away from home playing two holding midfielders and three creative midfielders was good to see. We took control of the game in the second half just how Newcastle did the same against us last week. From open play QPR were not looking that threatening tbh. It was only from corners and free kicks I was wary.
People can complain and moan saying it's only QPR and how they're a newly promoted team, but if you look at the table we're only one place better off than them. No game in the prem is easy (for us atleast), especially away from home. We picked up a point although i'm upset because we conceded in the last minute and ultimately we should of won. The other thing i'm upset about is not going for the second goal. I was saying how one goal is never enough, we needed that second goal, a second goal will have killed QPR off. I hope McLeish realises that you need to press and try and score that second instead of hoping one goal will be enough.
Like I said previously, from what I saw we played better than I expected. We just need to take each game as it comes and hope for some progression along the way.
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We're shit. McLeish out. (and yes i would have said the same if we'd won 1-0 because we were diabolical yet again and didn't have a shot on target in open play).
What was your prediction for the score again?
I said we'd lose 2 or 3 nil or draw 1-1 by playing shit football. So i was right as always.
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We're shit. McLeish out. (and yes i would have said the same if we'd won 1-0 because we were diabolical yet again and didn't have a shot on target in open play).
A little harsh.
We didn't play great but we were the away team and took control of the second half and from what I saw, we looked better going forward - we just lacked a bit of composure in the final third and didn't make most of the chances presented to us. Things don't just magically happen over night with us playing like Barcelona, you need to realise this is work in progress.
You can either only focus on the negatives, or you can see that there are some postives to look at.
Work in progress remember. Be paitent. Things will take time.
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Just watched it again on MOD2
Gutted for Dunne, probably best performance this season
N`Zogbia needs dropping (from a great height)
All in all a fair result though
Oh - and Robbie Savage is still a tw@
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We're shit. McLeish out. (and yes i would have said the same if we'd won 1-0 because we were diabolical yet again and didn't have a shot on target in open play).
What was your prediction for the score again?
I said we'd lose 2 or 3 nil or draw 1-1 by playing shit football. So i was right as always.
I also predicted the same, yet I don't feel as negative about the game as you because I thought I saw some improvement.
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Very annoying to concede in the last minute after defending well for most of the game. We looked solid at the back and after watching all of QPR's free kicks from the edge of the box blasted high and wide I really thought it was going to be our day zipping into 5th position.
We actually played a lot better than I thought. People can criticize for how negative McLeish can be, but today he got his tactics all but spot on.
We look like a hard team to beat at the moment, but then again we haven't exactly played a top team yet. If we can somehow start scoring more goals whilst remaining solid in defence, I have some faith restored.
P.S. Bent wasn't on the bench, when and how did he get injured?
I'm not a huge fan of his tactic that involves the team looking like a sorry collection of incompetent idiots that can't keep hold of the ball for more than 2 passes. They must have put in savage work in training this week so look so ridiculously inept as they did in the first half today. Disgraceful. Thank Christ they actually got it together some bit in the 2nd half.
Quite.
I can't see how anyone could have tactically planned the sheer ineptitude of the first half. It was shamefully bad.
Bent has a groin injury. think it's the same one that kept him out for England.
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I went today ....
Why didn't you claim for the Penalty against Gabs because according to Colin Wanker and Wilkins, because you didn't claim for it, it wasn't a penalty.
I didn't bloody see it the view was Fuckin awful, there are teams in outer Mongolia with better stadiums. It's exactly the same as it was in the 90's
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A bunch of observations on the game today...
What the hell was that first half about? I’m surprised they didn’t have to Shake ‘n’ Vac the pitch at half-time, we absolutely stank the place out. Surely the lowest point in our recent misery was the sight of Shay time-wasting after half an hour. That was desperate.
Whatever was said at half time should have been said earlier. Like in August, for example. Still, better late than never. We passed the ball well and kept it, and for the first time this season I felt we were actually in control of a game. Amazing how much better a midfielder is when the ball is played to his feet rather than blasted into a cloud. Who’d have thought?
Has anyone been to Stephen Warnock’s house? Is there a massive hole in the front door? I can only imagine he comes running at it wildly and smashes through it feet first, without taking a second to think rationally and just get his keys out.
On the other hand, Warnock’s crunching bit of filth on Barton did seem to subdue the tweeting scrote for the rest of the game.
I’m sick of seeing Petrov trudging off at half-time looking like a contestant on Total Wipeout.
I’m struggling to remember a worse start to a Villa career than Alan Hutton’s. He makes Luke Young look like Dani Alves. Much more of this and Habib Beye might have to play, which would really bloody annoy him.
The Ferdinand family are a lovely bunch aren’t they?
Peter Grant stinks of ineptitude. Seeing him in the dugout is like spotting half a cyanide pill in your burger. I’d be much more comfortable if McLeish had a better assistant. Grant has a very poor track record – he could join forces with Nigel Quashie and Herman Hreidarsson and launch an aftershave called Relegation.
I never thought I’d see the day when Gary Neville provided intelligent and insightful analysis on a game of football. And I still don’t.
On the subject of Neville, do you think if he got in touch with Agent Ridgewell they could get together to form a reasonable attempt at a moustache?
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1 defeat in our last 13 premier games. Our defence is looking a lot stronger. We have a world class keeper and top striker. At last the younger players are being given a chance and are always involved in the first team or on the bench.
Midfield and getting some consistent performances from players like Ireland are going to be the challenge.
Yes our performances have been patchy, especially some first halves but I can see some green shoots.
For me hearing a Villa manager talking sense after the game for the first time in years was also a good sign.
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A bunch of observations on the game today...
What the hell was that first half about? I’m surprised they didn’t have to Shake ‘n’ Vac the pitch at half-time, we absolutely stank the place out. Surely the lowest point in our recent misery was the sight of Shay time-wasting after half an hour. That was desperate.
Whatever was said at half time should have been said earlier. Like in August, for example. Still, better late than never. We passed the ball well and kept it, and for the first time this season I felt we were actually in control of a game. Amazing how much better a midfielder is when the ball is played to his feet rather than blasted into a cloud. Who’d have thought?
Has anyone been to Stephen Warnock’s house? Is there a massive hole in the front door? I can only imagine he comes running at it wildly and smashes through it feet first, without taking a second to think rationally and just get his keys out.
On the other hand, Warnock’s crunching bit of filth on Barton did seem to subdue the tweeting scrote for the rest of the game.
I’m sick of seeing Petrov trudging off at half-time looking like a contestant on Total Wipeout.
I’m struggling to remember a worse start to a Villa career than Alan Hutton’s. He makes Luke Young look like Dani Alves. Much more of this and Habib Beye might have to play, which would really bloody annoy him.
The Ferdinand family are a lovely bunch aren’t they?
Peter Grant stinks of ineptitude. Seeing him in the dugout is like spotting half a cyanide pill in your burger. I’d be much more comfortable if McLeish had a better assistant. Grant has a very poor track record – he could join forces with Nigel Quashie and Herman Hreidarsson and launch an aftershave called Relegation.
I never thought I’d see the day when Gary Neville provided intelligent and insightful analysis on a game of football. And I still don’t.
On the subject of Neville, do you think if he got in touch with Agent Ridgewell they could get together to form a reasonable attempt at a moustache?
Top rant of the season to date......made me laugh, thank you!
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Not long got back oop Narf.
Very encouraged by the second half display. Plenty of movement off the ball, with Bannan and Irleand combining well.
I heard a lot of nonsense on the radio on the way back about their brand of football etc, but thought for all our first half failings, they didn't muster a great deal and in fact I can only recall Given making one real save.
Very disappointing to throw it away at the end and I don't buy it that we were inviting them on, as I thought we looked far more like scoring than they did. A more clinical approach and we'd have done them two or three.
I believe McLeish must have dished out some tough love at half time and after bemoaning Delph as a passenger in the first 45, I thought he was much better second, with the whole midfield ten yards further up the pitch, closing down and pressing and getting in advance of Gabby.
N'Zogbia is still struggling. I think we have to keep persisting with him until he finds form.
No suprises that Barton was anonymous, the meadiocre twat.
Loftus Road is still the wanky Mercano ground its always been and as for the penalty- it was a foul. Its no excuse that "10 or 20 would be given a game". Good, give them, then maybe defenders would stop bloody doing it!
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Well just got back to Manchester after a 7 hour round trip, 500+ miles of driving. First half was utter shite though we did well for the last 5 minutes and forced 3 corners. I mention this because I don't think there was anything else to talk about.
Second half much improved with us putting it about and taking the game to them, constructive play and passing (at times) and swift on the break but lacking the execution or final ball to put QPR away. N'Zogbia is still finding his feet and whilst some of his tracking back was much better his distribution and passing was atrocious. Collins is looking a liability to me, fortunately he was up against another Championship standard player in Bothroyd but as soon as he had the nippy Campbell and Helguson to mark he looked lost and why he wasn't getting his head on an aimless upfield punt which led to the equaliser god only knows. Real positives for me in the play of Petrov, Ireland, Bannan and Delph in the 2nd half.
Given - 7 - As ever a couple of good saves and a solid performance.
Hutton - 6 - Ok but nothing spectacular, seemed to get forward more second half in support.
Collins - 3 - Shit
Dunne - 6 - Ok and his usual committed self
Warnock - 6 - Solid, the usual rash challenges (we'll forgive him the Barton one) and good attacking support second half
Petrov - 7.5- Stans usual all action performance in the middle fo the park, breaking up play, winning free kicks through his experience and getting forward in support, we'll miss him when he's gone.
Delph - 6.5 - Anonymous first half, committed second, still takes the wrong option and gets caught in posession too often but some good signs
Bannan - 8 MOM - Go on the wee man, second half superb if a bit lightweight first half. Slotted his penalty well.
Ireland - 6.5 - Keep that up and he'll win me over, good second half with running, tracking back and commitment in the tackle.
N'Zogbia - 3 - Awful and atrocious passing and final ball though finding some fitness and tracking back positional play much better.
Agbonlahor - 6.5 - Not great service but battled well with the QPR centre backs and his tireless running second half created plenty of room for others to exploit.
Subs didn't really have long enough to influence though Albrighton was tidy and didn't give away any stupid free kicks.
McLeish - 5 - Credit for getting them playing at half time but he needs to do something about them turning up for the first half as it does make me wonder just what the hell does he need to do to get £50k a week footballers "up" for kick off. Quite happy with the formation of 4-2-3-1 we played second half but the 4-3-3 we attempted first half just ended up being 4-5-1 with no attacking intent.
Oh and Loftus Road has replaced Fratton Park at number 1 in my topflight "godforsaken shitholes" league.
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That was possibly the worst half I have seen for ten years.
Trully was awful on every front,tactically how can a team
get it so badly wrong?The players and the manager need to
hold their hands up and in fairness to Mcleish he didnt try to
hide it in his post match interview.He should have changed
things round before half time.
Whatever he said and did at half time did the trick as we looked a
different side in the second half.
Ireland was the big plus for me as he looked angry and interested for
the first time in a Villa shirt and is a quality footballer as we all know.
He needs a few games and to play this way a fair few times to win
me over but it is a glimpse of what he is capable of.
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A bunch of observations on the game today...
What the hell was that first half about? I’m surprised they didn’t have to Shake ‘n’ Vac the pitch at half-time, we absolutely stank the place out. Surely the lowest point in our recent misery was the sight of Shay time-wasting after half an hour. That was desperate.
Whatever was said at half time should have been said earlier. Like in August, for example. Still, better late than never. We passed the ball well and kept it, and for the first time this season I felt we were actually in control of a game. Amazing how much better a midfielder is when the ball is played to his feet rather than blasted into a cloud. Who’d have thought?
Has anyone been to Stephen Warnock’s house? Is there a massive hole in the front door? I can only imagine he comes running at it wildly and smashes through it feet first, without taking a second to think rationally and just get his keys out.
On the other hand, Warnock’s crunching bit of filth on Barton did seem to subdue the tweeting scrote for the rest of the game.
I’m sick of seeing Petrov trudging off at half-time looking like a contestant on Total Wipeout.
I’m struggling to remember a worse start to a Villa career than Alan Hutton’s. He makes Luke Young look like Dani Alves. Much more of this and Habib Beye might have to play, which would really bloody annoy him.
The Ferdinand family are a lovely bunch aren’t they?
Peter Grant stinks of ineptitude. Seeing him in the dugout is like spotting half a cyanide pill in your burger. I’d be much more comfortable if McLeish had a better assistant. Grant has a very poor track record – he could join forces with Nigel Quashie and Herman Hreidarsson and launch an aftershave called Relegation.
I never thought I’d see the day when Gary Neville provided intelligent and insightful analysis on a game of football. And I still don’t.
On the subject of Neville, do you think if he got in touch with Agent Ridgewell they could get together to form a reasonable attempt at a moustache?
Have you considered a career in stand up comedy. Post of the Day for me, and the moustache joke nicked for Facebook.
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A bunch of observations on the game today...
What the hell was that first half about? I’m surprised they didn’t have to Shake ‘n’ Vac the pitch at half-time, we absolutely stank the place out. Surely the lowest point in our recent misery was the sight of Shay time-wasting after half an hour. That was desperate.
Whatever was said at half time should have been said earlier. Like in August, for example. Still, better late than never. We passed the ball well and kept it, and for the first time this season I felt we were actually in control of a game. Amazing how much better a midfielder is when the ball is played to his feet rather than blasted into a cloud. Who’d have thought?
Has anyone been to Stephen Warnock’s house? Is there a massive hole in the front door? I can only imagine he comes running at it wildly and smashes through it feet first, without taking a second to think rationally and just get his keys out.
On the other hand, Warnock’s crunching bit of filth on Barton did seem to subdue the tweeting scrote for the rest of the game.
I’m sick of seeing Petrov trudging off at half-time looking like a contestant on Total Wipeout.
I’m struggling to remember a worse start to a Villa career than Alan Hutton’s. He makes Luke Young look like Dani Alves. Much more of this and Habib Beye might have to play, which would really bloody annoy him.
The Ferdinand family are a lovely bunch aren’t they?
Peter Grant stinks of ineptitude. Seeing him in the dugout is like spotting half a cyanide pill in your burger. I’d be much more comfortable if McLeish had a better assistant. Grant has a very poor track record – he could join forces with Nigel Quashie and Herman Hreidarsson and launch an aftershave called Relegation.
I never thought I’d see the day when Gary Neville provided intelligent and insightful analysis on a game of football. And I still don’t.
On the subject of Neville, do you think if he got in touch with Agent Ridgewell they could get together to form a reasonable attempt at a moustache?
Have you considered a career in stand up comedy. Post of the Day for me, and the moustache joke nicked for Facebook.
I too thought it was very funny.
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Oh and Loftus Road has replaced Fratton Park at number 1 in my topflight "godforsaken shitholes" league.
The last time I was there - and they had David Seaman in goal, so it was a fair while ago - i seem to remember we were in the lower tier behind the goal, and most of the view was obscured by the top tier overhang.
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We're shit. McLeish out. (and yes i would have said the same if we'd won 1-0 because we were diabolical yet again and didn't have a shot on target in open play).
Get a grip mate we were 2 mins from being 5th
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We're shit. McLeish out. (and yes i would have said the same if we'd won 1-0 because we were diabolical yet again and didn't have a shot on target in open play).
Get a grip mate we were 2 mins from being 5th
I think that says quite a lot about the standard of the Premier League.
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Collins - 3 - Shit
I thought he did OK, by and large. In fact, i think he and Dunne have done very well this season, they actually instil some confidence in me.
Our problem is going to be the full backs.
Warnock showed us at times today how he tends to drop clangers, go charging in both feet up, and give away free kicks needlessly in dangerous areas.
Hutton has looked absolutely shit since we signed him. Like the manager let one of the players bring a mate to fill in at right back.
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We're shit. McLeish out. (and yes i would have said the same if we'd won 1-0 because we were diabolical yet again and didn't have a shot on target in open play).
Get a grip mate we were 2 mins from being 5th
I think that says quite a lot about the standard of the Premier League.
Actually I think the standard is quite good. Just that there's not a lot of difference between 4th and 20 th. Pity about the moneybags in the first 3 spots.
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Collins - 3 - Shit
I thought he did OK, by and large. In fact, i think he and Dunne have done very well this season, they actually instil some confidence in me.
Our problem is going to be the full backs.
Warnock showed us at times today how he tends to drop clangers, go charging in both feet up, and give away free kicks needlessly in dangerous areas.
Hutton has looked absolutely shit since we signed him. Like the manager let one of the players bring a mate to fill in at right back.
We'll have to agree to disagree Paulie, I've come to the conclusion hes shite. The full backs look Ok going forwards but you're right that defensively they need to improve. (As will be proved at Man City!)
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A bunch of observations on the game today...
What the hell was that first half about? I’m surprised they didn’t have to Shake ‘n’ Vac the pitch at half-time, we absolutely stank the place out. Surely the lowest point in our recent misery was the sight of Shay time-wasting after half an hour. That was desperate.
Whatever was said at half time should have been said earlier. Like in August, for example. Still, better late than never. We passed the ball well and kept it, and for the first time this season I felt we were actually in control of a game. Amazing how much better a midfielder is when the ball is played to his feet rather than blasted into a cloud. Who’d have thought?
Has anyone been to Stephen Warnock’s house? Is there a massive hole in the front door? I can only imagine he comes running at it wildly and smashes through it feet first, without taking a second to think rationally and just get his keys out.
On the other hand, Warnock’s crunching bit of filth on Barton did seem to subdue the tweeting scrote for the rest of the game.
I’m sick of seeing Petrov trudging off at half-time looking like a contestant on Total Wipeout.
I’m struggling to remember a worse start to a Villa career than Alan Hutton’s. He makes Luke Young look like Dani Alves. Much more of this and Habib Beye might have to play, which would really bloody annoy him.
The Ferdinand family are a lovely bunch aren’t they?
Peter Grant stinks of ineptitude. Seeing him in the dugout is like spotting half a cyanide pill in your burger. I’d be much more comfortable if McLeish had a better assistant. Grant has a very poor track record – he could join forces with Nigel Quashie and Herman Hreidarsson and launch an aftershave called Relegation.
I never thought I’d see the day when Gary Neville provided intelligent and insightful analysis on a game of football. And I still don’t.
On the subject of Neville, do you think if he got in touch with Agent Ridgewell they could get together to form a reasonable attempt at a moustache?
Have you considered a career in stand up comedy. Post of the Day for me, and the moustache joke nicked for Facebook.
I too thought it was very funny.
The Warnock bit has just made chuckle hard enough to induce coughing.
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Collins - 3 - Shit
I thought he did OK, by and large. In fact, i think he and Dunne have done very well this season, they actually instil some confidence in me.
Our problem is going to be the full backs.
Warnock showed us at times today how he tends to drop clangers, go charging in both feet up, and give away free kicks needlessly in dangerous areas.
Hutton has looked absolutely shit since we signed him. Like the manager let one of the players bring a mate to fill in at right back.
The good thing about Hutton is that Herd and when he's fit Lichej will soon get a chance.
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The style of play is making Dunne look better than he is. He is still a liability and he's been at fault for 3 goals in a week.
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I thought Warnock was great today. Granted he normally got himself sent off as usual, but notwithstanding that, I thought he played very well.
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I'm going to keep it simple.
First half? Shit.
Second half? Good.
Result? I'd have taken that before the game.
If we beat Wigan next week, things are looking Ok.
Let's not get too down hearted.
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The style of play is making Dunne look better than he is. He is still a liability and he's been at fault for 3 goals in a week.
No way was he at fault for todays
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Can't understand a minority of posters critisizing some defenders. Hutton aside i thought they all played well. The Zog is a worry, plenry of chances and the player of last year would have had a day out, may it's the way we are set up. Delphs decision making is poor, looked better when played a more forward role needs a quality midfielder along side him. Albrighton had an exellent chance to play Weiman in but got greedy. Thought Gabby ran his legs off for the side.
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Apart from Given who's been excellant, I think the defence have varied from poor to average to good this season. Better than last season i guess and an improvement in the defence was predicted by many on here once AM was bought in. I just think bringing in a manager to get the best out of Dunne, Warnock, collins and co, isn't much of a plan. You want to get the best out of the quality players not the average journeymen. But i suppose after this summer we haven't got many of the former left.
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It may have escaped you both but we've lost Young, Downing and NRC, our three best players last season. What do you think I should do, throw the towel in and give up? I prefer to support a team that shows battle and grit, basic, traditional Villa values. There was enough today in the second half to give hope that we can finally step up, despite the financial cut backs.
I also have confidence in Sid and especially Kevin McDonald to get us playing the right way, even with our restricted squad. I do wonder what would have been the response on here today if we'd won. My guess is some would have pissed off in a sulk.
Well for someone who was doing their nut when we bought Milner and others but had not bought a striker three seasons ago and appeared to give up posting on here when called against it, it does seem rich to moan about others doing the same when we are in a totally different and in most cases worst position then that time.
Milner? I was bloody delighted when we signed him. I think you have the wrong man. Gave up posting? Now I know you have.
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Positives - Ireland, Bannan, Warnock and Collins plus we are usually worse in the 2nd half, so it was nice that we improved today.
Negatives - N'Zzzzogbia, the first half performance and throwing the lead away when we had control of the game.
I was for the first time impressed with AM but still he needs to prove to me that his actions are better than his words.
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Dont really understand the criticism of Hutton. Defensively apart from the goal late on he was solid. Warnock had a decent game too for a change. Collins made a couple of rash tackles but generally solid. What he was at for the goal beggared belief though. Never should a centre half let a punt bounce. From then we were in trouble. Unlucky on Dunne who had a fine game again I thought.
Thought Delph had a decent second half too so not sure what we are attacking him for.
Aside from that, the first half was absolute putrid. We were better certainly in the second half but not by much and considering how shambolic the first half was, it isnt much of a positive anyway. Without the ball we competed well but we seem happier without the ball than with it. Id love to know how many times we strung 5 passes together in the opposition half. Definitely none in the first half. The definition pass and move doesnt seem to register with the Villa player. We pass and stay where we are so the player in possession rarely has any option.
Early days but Nzogbia had another stinker. He was hopeless frankly and should have been subbed long before he was. Ireland needs to get more into the game but at least he competed unlike last season and he is the one Villa player that finds a team mate in possesion. The link play between Gabby, Bannan, Nzogbia and himself is non existent and Id like to see him break into the box more. Bannan had a good spell after half time and was then taken off. Gabby didnt have much to work on but didnt impress me really. Seemed sluggish today and didnt hold it up well.
I dont think a point is a great result but it is all we deserved. QPR quickly ran out of ideas. Barton wasnt in the game. Faurlin was by far the best midfielder on view. Bothroyd was dusted by our centre halves from early on. Taarabt was well shackled too bar the one shot in the first half. QPR looked a very poor side to me. Luke Young did well but even SWP was crap. They defintely need Campbell to start more.
Disappointing not to hold on I suppose when we looked fairly comfortable but frankly the style of football being played is vomit inducing. We seemingly cant string passes together and the players seem on totally different wavelengths. I wasnt overly gone on our second half display either. A phantom penalty really and I cant remember too many other chances.
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Oh and Loftus Road has replaced Fratton Park at number 1 in my topflight "godforsaken shitholes" league.
I agree, if there was a fire in that away end everyone would die.
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A bunch of observations on the game today...
What the hell was that first half about? I’m surprised they didn’t have to Shake ‘n’ Vac the pitch at half-time, we absolutely stank the place out. Surely the lowest point in our recent misery was the sight of Shay time-wasting after half an hour. That was desperate.
Whatever was said at half time should have been said earlier. Like in August, for example. Still, better late than never. We passed the ball well and kept it, and for the first time this season I felt we were actually in control of a game. Amazing how much better a midfielder is when the ball is played to his feet rather than blasted into a cloud. Who’d have thought?
Has anyone been to Stephen Warnock’s house? Is there a massive hole in the front door? I can only imagine he comes running at it wildly and smashes through it feet first, without taking a second to think rationally and just get his keys out.
On the other hand, Warnock’s crunching bit of filth on Barton did seem to subdue the tweeting scrote for the rest of the game.
I’m sick of seeing Petrov trudging off at half-time looking like a contestant on Total Wipeout.
I’m struggling to remember a worse start to a Villa career than Alan Hutton’s. He makes Luke Young look like Dani Alves. Much more of this and Habib Beye might have to play, which would really bloody annoy him.
The Ferdinand family are a lovely bunch aren’t they?
Peter Grant stinks of ineptitude. Seeing him in the dugout is like spotting half a cyanide pill in your burger. I’d be much more comfortable if McLeish had a better assistant. Grant has a very poor track record – he could join forces with Nigel Quashie and Herman Hreidarsson and launch an aftershave called Relegation.
I never thought I’d see the day when Gary Neville provided intelligent and insightful analysis on a game of football. And I still don’t.
On the subject of Neville, do you think if he got in touch with Agent Ridgewell they could get together to form a reasonable attempt at a moustache?
Top quality post. Excellent rant.
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The most blatant penalty in the game was their keeper, whoever he was, on Delph. Also, looked like a bad decision to give them a goal-kick instead of awarding us a corner right near the end. I wish these TV interviewers had the balls and the job description to point these things out to wankers like Warnock.
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With the pen, having given it why yellow and not red? Makes no sense.
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With the pen, having given it why yellow and not red? Makes no sense.
The ball was going out and Gabby was never going to get it? Which made the foul all the more pointless
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The first half we were very poor, but i think last year we would of gone in one or two down.
In the second half I think we looked quite good in parts. That was the best Ireland has played in a villa shirt and hopefully he will take coinfidence from it, Bannan, Collins, Dunne and Gabby played their part to.
I am concerned about Hutton, N'Zogbia and Delph though. If we can bring Herd and Jenas in for the next game, and hope that the more N'Zogbia plays the quicker he will settle.
As I predicted a loss, I would take a draw and the second half performance was encouraging, at least we know we can play a bit when we want to.
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One reason why I thought things improved in the second half was that the midfield starting picking Gabby's runs down the channels. Thought he worked really hard and that lone role, as we saw under MON, really suits him.
Bent doesn't work nearly as hard but is a better finisher. If we are going to persist with the lone striker, then we have to hold the ball up better to allow players like Ireland and Bannan to get beyond and into threatening positions.
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I knew it was going to be a weird day when I found myself agreeing with Gary Neville, but he made the point that in the first half we were quick to get into a defensive shape but not quick enough getting into an attacking shape. Everytime we had the possession it was 10 behind the ball and only Gabby ahead so we resorted to the hoof. Second half we were much better at getting players forward in support of the attack much quicker. I guess it was something with Downing & Young in the side we never had a problem with.
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Thought a draw was a fair result. QPR's final ball was terrible as was Bothroyd
First half was shit
Bannan MOM - couldn't understand him been taken off
Collins and Dunne were good until 3 minutes into stoppage time
the 2 fullbacks look shit
Delph - Hmmmm
petrov & ireland - thought they were okay nothing more and nothing less
Nzogbia - Fucking terrible, appalling decision making and his body language looks all wrong
gabby - Good game, ran his knackers off although Im worried about what will happen when Ivanhoe is fit
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can someone explain the tactics and substitutions for the last 20 minutes
We took off a youngster who had also played on Tuesday and replaced him with a player who should be able to benefit from running at a tired defence.
A 22 year old was a bit tired because he played on Tuesday, had Wednesday and Thursday off and then played again Sunday?
heaven help us
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can someone explain the tactics and substitutions for the last 20 minutes
We took off a youngster who had also played on Tuesday and replaced him with a player who should be able to benefit from running at a tired defence.
A 22 year old was a bit tired because he played on Tuesday, had Wednesday and Thursday off and then played again Sunday?
heaven help us
He has twice as far as everybody else to run.
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Apologies if this has been said in the previous 20 pages but I think the manager deseves credit for the half time team talk, whatever he said worked.
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Hutton is what we all thought he was, average, and in no way an improvement on Young, but theres plenty like him and its not the end of the world
However N'zogbia so far is one of the worst Villa players i've seen for years, he's just awful, if it wasnt for the fact wev'e payed 10 mill for him i dont think he'd be guaranteed a starting place,
at the moment i'm wishing he'd headed of up to sunderland instead
EDIT, also can we have that ref every week please
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Hutton is what we all thought he was, average, and in no way an improvement on Young, but theres plenty like him and its not the end of the world
However N'zogbia so far is one of the worst Villa players i've seen for years, he's just awful, if it wasnt for the fact wev'e payed 10 mill for him i dont think he'd be guaranteed a starting place,
at the moment i'm wishing he'd headed of up to sunderland instead
EDIT, also can we have that ref every week please
The worrying thing for me about Nzogbia yesterday was that he looked like no other Villa player was talking to him, a bit like the fat kid who no-one wanted in the team but the PE teacher made you have him.
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The most blatant penalty in the game was their keeper, whoever he was, on Delph. Also, looked like a bad decision to give them a goal-kick instead of awarding us a corner right near the end. I wish these TV interviewers had the balls and the job description to point these things out to wankers like Warnock.
Warnock is a twat but I'll give him a bit of credit for this..
Warnock's criticism also stretched to Traoré who, having been booked for his role in Villa's penalty, received a second yellow card for a lunge on Marc Albrighton. "The player was a disgrace and I'll fine him as much as I can," said Warnock.
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The most blatant penalty in the game was their keeper, whoever he was, on Delph. Also, looked like a bad decision to give them a goal-kick instead of awarding us a corner right near the end. I wish these TV interviewers had the balls and the job description to point these things out to wankers like Warnock.
flipin eck Percy, we cant complain at the ref for this one,
it was one of the most one sided displays i've ever seen, i was laughing my head of at times in the second half, the man virtually gave every decision he could our way,
we should just put our heads down and accept this one went our way
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So based on consensus so far, Jenus will be in for Delph next game ?
Jenas? We need Jesus in for Delph.
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Just home from the game. First half they picked up from where they left off against Bolton reserves. Second half was very much better and for the first time this season there were real signs that McLeish wants them to play passing football. Delph badly needs somebody alongside him to direct and control him. Ireland must have had the mother of bollockings at half time because he actually showed some classy touches in the second half. Marc's total loss of confidence is very worrying. He should have left Barry Bannan on our cutting edge was lost when he was replaced.
Much happier about McLeish.
I wonder how much can be put down to Kevin McDonald? Maybe it's too early to have made an impact but I'd be a lot happier if he was Assistant Manager rather than Peter Grant. It's like last season with Houllier and McAllister, Sid is left sitting on the bench, not appearing to contribute during the game, McAllister having Houllier's ear.
This season we now have Kevin Mac and Sid glued to their seats, yet they are the coaches, the key men that work with the players every day, know exactly what each player should be doing, what they've been working on during the week, so to have them silenced doesn't make sense.
I'd also like to think a few might take a more open attitude to McLeish if he had two Villa men around him. Who knows but to me it's a waste of talent having both coaches sitting on their hands and contributing nothing on matchdays.
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Hutton is what we all thought he was, average, and in no way an improvement on Young, but theres plenty like him and its not the end of the world
However N'zogbia so far is one of the worst Villa players i've seen for years, he's just awful, if it wasnt for the fact wev'e payed 10 mill for him i dont think he'd be guaranteed a starting place,
at the moment i'm wishing he'd headed of up to sunderland instead
EDIT, also can we have that ref every week please
I can't understand the N'Zogbia loss of form. He was simply outstanding in the last 12 or so games for Wigan last season and scored some vital goals to keep them up. I think it's a case of confidence - he needs a lucky goal or something to spark him. I would still persevere - there's a cracking player there - ironically, he looked good in his first game at Braga and scored and played well in parts aginst Blackburn. Remember Downing in the first season? He was very average and got slammed on these boards. Keep the faith - he'll come good!
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At least McLeish showed how unhappy he was with the first half performance and managed to get a reaction from the players which a much improved performance.
Hopefully it will continue.
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2nd Half they surprised the hell out of me. Played some really good stuff for 25 minutes and just couldn't get that 2nd goal to kill the game. Always a sickner to concede late on but probably can't argue on balance of play. Got away with one penalty, Gabbys was a penalty. Soft, but that's what you get if you have a tug at his shirt.
At least we showed promise...something to build on.
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N'Zogbia so far looks a bit like Baros, but to be fair he was the only Villa player who tried to challenge in the first half. He doesn't lack motivation. Bannan and Given were the positives, Petrov as good as you can expect. You can't blame McLeish for trying to get a second.
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I won't go in to the mess that was most of the 1st half as that's already been dissected. But one thing I found encouraging was that in the 2nd half delph and less often petrov got ahead of the play on occasion making good attacking runs. You need this from your central midfield when you've only got one up front and we haven't had it since milner.
Long way to go but I was happy to see this at least.
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The worrying thing for me about Nzogbia yesterday was that he looked like no other Villa player was talking to him, a bit like the fat kid who no-one wanted in the team but the PE teacher made you have him.
Well I'm sure I heard Gabby shout: "Le temps est censé être gentil, si nous pouvons jouer au football"
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Was that about the cunning plan to make us play facing the sun in the second half when Shay had to face all those free kicks coming in over the wall like bandits at 2 0'clock?
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If McLeish gives a good half-time team talk, then he might want to bring it forward 45 minutes for the next game.
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If McLeish gives a good half-time team talk, then he might want to bring it forward 45 minutes for the next game.
Good idea.
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Yesterday brought home to me the folly of missing out on Hitz.
He was going for a song and his wages wouldn't have been mental.
The way QPR initially lined up looked like a decent formation -and caused us problems. Hitz and (ideally) a more physical midfielder alongside him (NRC or better) allowing three flair players to just attack and find the gaps in a more fluid set up. Then it's down to the individual flair players to make the most of that freedom. Barton Taarabet and SWP started well but faded badly. Still, with a better cutting edge, we could have been a few goals down at half time.
The benefit of Hitz in the side might also have done away with a chief frustration yesterday - players scared to shoot from distance. They either took a touch to many and ran into trouble or produced really piss weak efforts.
I know Tommy wasn't top of most peoples wish list this summer, but with the new austerity measures he would have been an asset. It seems like he waited as long as he could for us to make our move too -until he could wait no longer.
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Second half we played better than the first half, but that doesn't mean it was any good. It just means it was slightly better than dross. People saying they saw big improvement second half and were pleased with McLeish are fucking mental, we didn't have a shot on target in open play for christ sake and we played ok for about 15 minutes. Some people must be easily pleased.
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It's amazing that we could have gone in 1-0 up at half time considering how piss poor we were, but that's been covered already.
Second half was much better, we got forward, played it wide, got first to the ball, won the second balls, it just looked better. Let's hope we can take it into the Wigan game and get three points going into the international break.
Off the pitch, the Walkabout bar in Shepherds Bush was jolly good, it was nice meeting Nigel Kennedy on the way out and QPR should be reported to trading standards for their £40 tickets with a pole blocking the view, absolutley shocking.
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Second half we played better than the first half, but that doesn't mean it was any good. It just means it was slightly better than dross. People saying they saw big improvement second half and were pleased with McLeish are fucking mental, we didn't have a shot on target in open play for christ sake and we played ok for about 15 minutes. Some people must be easily pleased.
Other than it being more like 20-25 minutes, I pretty much agree.
QPR are a poor side.
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Most people I've spoken to today thought that Delph was our best player apart from Bannan.
Maybe he wasn't that bad after all.
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Most people I've spoken to today thought that Delph was our best player apart from Bannan.
Maybe he wasn't that bad after all.
I saw Robbie Savage bigging him up on MOTD2, and was very surprised.
Then I remembered, it was Robbie Savage.
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Delph took the wrong option a couple of times but I thought that in the second half his industry was a large part of our improvement. There's plenty of room for improvement but I've been surprised at how much criticism he's received.
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Delph took the wrong option a couple of times but I thought that in the second half his industry was a large part of our improvement. There's plenty of room for improvement but I've been surprised at how much criticism he's received.
I'm not surprised, there's some who were even criticising Hutton after 2 games. N'Zogbia and Ireland have been the two main disapointments so far this season and Ireland put more of a shift in yesterday and looked a better player for it.
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Delph hasn't set the world on fire, but is hardly the biggest problem in the team.
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Second half we played better than the first half, but that doesn't mean it was any good. It just means it was slightly better than dross. People saying they saw big improvement second half and were pleased with McLeish are fucking mental, we didn't have a shot on target in open play for christ sake and we played ok for about 15 minutes. Some people must be easily pleased.
And some people are easily displeased. They even seem to enjoy it. If I recall, BCV, you practically had the bingo markers and bedsheets out the moment McLeish was appointed, so it's no surprise you're refusing to spot any signs of improvement. If the guy won us the FA Cup this season you'd complain that his tie was a bit wonky during the presentation. You seriously couldn't see any improvement in the second half? After that diabolical first half? And you call us "mental"? (Actually, we're all mental - it means "of the mind". You probably mean "mentally retarded" or "mentally impaired"). I'm not saying we're playing well, I've been completely underwhelmed by our start to the season, but there were definite signs in the second half that we are capable of playing decent football. I don't know how you can dispute there was a "big improvement". No one's saying we're suddenly world beaters, just that we look like we might have a clue after all. I'll take any crumb of comfort at the moment. Why do you insist on being negative even when there are positives to be found? Be gone, you miserable man, and follow Small Heath, who will provide you with the misery you so clearly crave, to a level you never thought possible.
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Second half we played better than the first half, but that doesn't mean it was any good. It just means it was slightly better than dross. People saying they saw big improvement second half and were pleased with McLeish are fucking mental, we didn't have a shot on target in open play for christ sake and we played ok for about 15 minutes. Some people must be easily pleased.
Other than it being more like 20-25 minutes, I pretty much agree.
QPR are a poor side.
A poor side playing with confidence. I look forward to a Villa side doing the same.
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Second half we played better than the first half, but that doesn't mean it was any good. It just means it was slightly better than dross. People saying they saw big improvement second half and were pleased with McLeish are fucking mental, we didn't have a shot on target in open play for christ sake and we played ok for about 15 minutes. Some people must be easily pleased.
Other than it being more like 20-25 minutes, I pretty much agree.
QPR are a poor side.
A poor side playing with confidence. I look forward to a Villa side doing the same.
QPR are a decent striker, GK and central defender short of being an average side.
Agree, they have the 'we're in the Prem now don't you know' confidence while, the Villa are - 'we're trying to get our shit together for our new Manager, we do have the talent - honest' .
16,700 gate - their best so far, they're a London version of Blackpool, a club who used to be decent but just aren't anymore.
Oh and Albrighton - what's happened to him in 2011 ??
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Second half we played better than the first half, but that doesn't mean it was any good. It just means it was slightly better than dross. People saying they saw big improvement second half and were pleased with McLeish are fucking mental, we didn't have a shot on target in open play for christ sake and we played ok for about 15 minutes. Some people must be easily pleased.
Other than it being more like 20-25 minutes, I pretty much agree.
QPR are a poor side.
A poor side playing with confidence. I look forward to a Villa side doing the same.
Well, exactly. Of course they are a poor side when one considers things overall but that makes no allowance at all for promoted teams often getting off to good starts, them being in form and the 'talk of the papers' for most of this week. Even Sky cottoned on to that and approached the whole of their coverage from the angle of 'promoted team on the rise with lots of good new players'. If we think back to last season, Blackpool were, by definition, a poor team overall as they were relegated, but you wouldn't have wanted to face them at this stage last season when they were rolling quite a few good teams over as I recollect....
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QPR are not a bad side at all, I'm not sure what the evidence is for them being poor. Since the transfer window they've outplayed Newcastle and Wolves and us for 45 minutes. I think you're being a little condescending to call them poor.
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TBH as far as some of the critisism of Hutton goes, as an experienced player I expect him to have a basic idea of what he should be doing and be fit.
In the general world of business if you are interviewed for a job, get the job and start then the company expect you to deliver pretty much right away, not say to you just potter along for a bit and if you're a bit shit that's okay
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TBH as far as some of the critisism of Hutton goes, as an experienced player I expect him to have a basic idea of what he should be doing and be fit.
In the general world of business if you are interviewed for a job, get the job and start then the company expect you to deliver pretty much right away, not say to you just potter along for a bit and if you're a bit shit that's okay
What a load of bollocks, firstly the analogy is irrelevant and secondly it's not true. In any job you will have a period of settling in and acclimatisation and elite sport is not the same as business.
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QPR aren't bad. What I'll add to the debate is that Sunday was probably the worst time to face them - new signings playing, off the back of an impressive away victory, Sky TV cameras at Loftus Road, big occasion for them, etc. The day was all about QPR.
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QPR aren't bad. What I'll add to the debate is that Sunday was probably the worst time to face them - new signings playing, off the back of an impressive away victory, Sky TV cameras at Loftus Road, big occasion for them, etc. The day was all about QPR.
True, and usually we oblige and roll over so I'm happy to see we've got a backbone.
It goes a long way in this league.
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Delph took the wrong option a couple of times but I thought that in the second half his industry was a large part of our improvement. There's plenty of room for improvement but I've been surprised at how much criticism he's received.
I'm not surprised, there's some who were even criticising Hutton after 2 games. N'Zogbia and Ireland have been the two main disapointments so far this season and Ireland put more of a shift in yesterday and looked a better player for it.
I agree, and that could largely explain why we've been a bit blunt attacking wise so far this season.
As for Delph, I thought he started the season well and then had a stinker or two, particularly at Everton. Problem with that is with some fans you need to put in a McGrath like performance to make up for it or your 'shit again', when in truth I think he's done OK the last couple of games. Not great - just OK!
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QPR aren't bad. What I'll add to the debate is that Sunday was probably the worst time to face them - new signings playing, off the back of an impressive away victory, Sky TV cameras at Loftus Road, big occasion for them, etc. The day was all about QPR.
This result wasn't the end of the world, it was very disappointing, but I saw a lot of positives in the second half. Seems like the players are responding to a good kick up the arse, shame they need this though.
Ireland wasn't too bad. N'Zogbia was poor, again, and Albrighton doesn't seem himself, there's obviously something wrong there, or maybe he just needs games. Impressed with the charector. However, most of these early season games should have been wins, we're lacking something. Square pegs... round holes...
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Delph took the wrong option a couple of times but I thought that in the second half his industry was a large part of our improvement. There's plenty of room for improvement but I've been surprised at how much criticism he's received.
Delph isn't as shite as some claim. The problem is that he isn't good enough tactically/defensively to be part of a central midfield pairing, at least if the other player isn't a definite holding midfielder, and Petrov isn't that. Anyway, this is one of numerous problems that will be solved once Jenas is fit. :-)
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QPR are not a bad side at all, I'm not sure what the evidence is for them being poor. Since the transfer window they've outplayed Newcastle and Wolves and us for 45 minutes. I think you're being a little condescending to call them poor.
fair comment. I'd say none of the promoted sides look particularly out of place, which doesn't say much for the standard of the premiership currently. not much difference from 6th downwards i'd say.
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QPR are not a bad side at all, I'm not sure what the evidence is for them being poor. Since the transfer window they've outplayed Newcastle and Wolves and us for 45 minutes. I think you're being a little condescending to call them poor.
fair comment. I'd say none of the promoted sides look particularly out of place, which doesn't say much for the standard of the premiership currently. not much difference from 6th downwards i'd say.
That's about it greg, and the reality is if we keep it tight and improve a couple of things going forward then we'll have as much a chance as anybody of finishing top of that pile.
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The most blatant penalty in the game was their keeper, whoever he was, on Delph. Also, looked like a bad decision to give them a goal-kick instead of awarding us a corner right near the end. I wish these TV interviewers had the balls and the job description to point these things out to wankers like Warnock.
flipin eck Percy, we cant complain at the ref for this one,
it was one of the most one sided displays i've ever seen, i was laughing my head of at times in the second half, the man virtually gave every decision he could our way,
we should just put our heads down and accept this one went our way
Disagree. Our penalty - correct decision. The two hand-balls - correct. Blatant foul on Delph, stonewall penalty - missed it. Corner to us at the end - missed it and gave goal-kick from which they scored.
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I just hope AM puts delph out to pasture. Does nothing IMO. Another transfer masterclass from MON - 6m on a guy not much more effective than osbourne.
It just isn't a thread without a Greg Nash dig at Martin O'Neill.
Well he's awful. 600k maybe but 6m?!
Depth is good player. By the end of this season we will regard him as our future. Except N'ash of course.
I hope you're right but i can't help feeling its the price tag that sparing him from criticism. I used to get all sorts of stick for pointing out Davies was bobbins, and he was. But because he cost us a fortune a lot of people didn't want to face the obvious.
But greg, you also thought Milner, Downing, Gabby and Ash Young were 'overpaid deadwood', so I'm not going to put too much store in your opinion on this one.
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I just hope AM puts delph out to pasture. Does nothing IMO. Another transfer masterclass from MON - 6m on a guy not much more effective than osbourne.
It just isn't a thread without a Greg Nash dig at Martin O'Neill.
Well he's awful. 600k maybe but 6m?!
Depth is good player. By the end of this season we will regard him as our future. Except N'ash of course.
I hope you're right but i can't help feeling its the price tag that sparing him from criticism. I used to get all sorts of stick for pointing out Davies was bobbins, and he was. But because he cost us a fortune a lot of people didn't want to face the obvious.
But greg, you also thought Milner, Downing, Gabby and Ash Young were 'overpaid deadwood', so I'm not going to put too much store in your opinion on this one.
Did i percy? Still as delusional as ever i see
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Add me to the list of those who think Delph is getting some unfair stick. He's been inconsistent and has struggled at times, but I thought he showed some good touches Sunday and there is definitely a very good player in there somewhere. Looked good when he started to get forward in the second half.
One small criticism of Bannan, who has generally been very good, is I think he tries to play the killer ball or do something clever every time, and sometimes the simple ball is the best option.
I saw Dermot Gallagher saying our pen was technically a foul but should not have been given otherwise there'd be 50 penalties in every game. Well maybe that's because shite bottler refs like him have let players get away with it for the last 20 years so now they think it's allowed as long as it's not too blatant. And to all those saying Hutton committed one or two handballs, you don't know the rules. It has to be a deliberate act, which means a movement of hand to ball, and neither of them were. Saying "I've seen them given" simply means you've seen more bottler refs applying the rules incorrectly when it suits.
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i accept that Delph will make some mistakes, he's young and leaning his craft, he plays in an important position in the side where he will be under pressure and will learn and improve as time goes on.
the question is,
do you think Delph is going to be good enough long term to become the player we all want in the Villa side, i do at the moment, and am prepared to watch his development and overlook his mistakes as long as he improves and learns from them.
if you dont think he will ever be good enough, then you have a problem in having to put up with him, with no real long term value.
you could make the same call about all the young players,
the manager has to make his decision which ones will break though to be first teamers and which ones will fall lower down the pecking order and leave for lower league clubs, but either way, if they are to make it into established first team players we will have to be patient and support them while they make a few mistakes on the way
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One small criticism of Bannan, who has generally been very good, is I think he tries to play the killer ball or do something clever every time, and sometimes the simple ball is the best option.
That is something I have heard said quite often and was said specifically by Andy Blair who was commentating on AVTV for the Bolton match. He said that Ireland was in space calling for it but Barry tried a 30 yarder which was cut out, went on to say that he must cut out trying to play the killer ball everytime and concentrate on keeping possession and then playing the killer ball when it was suitable and that would come with experience.
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One small criticism of Bannan, who has generally been very good, is I think he tries to play the killer ball or do something clever every time, and sometimes the simple ball is the best option.
That is something I have heard said quite often and was said specifically by Andy Blair who was commentating on AVTV for the Bolton match. He said that Ireland was in space calling for it but Barry tried a 30 yarder which was cut out, went on to say that he must cut out trying to play the killer ball everytime and concentrate on keeping possession and then playing the killer ball when it was suitable and that would come with experience.
I agree with that to an extent. It will come with experience and maturity but at the same time we shouldn't discourage him too much his attempts to make such passes. Bannan has undoubted skill and is I feel our most exciting prospect. He does something telling in every game he plays and will be our play maker for years to come I hope.
Delph can also be accused of not making the simple pass when it's on. He has a good engine and does get involved so he's showing good ambition. There are big question marks over his technical ability though. For such a short stature of a player he doesn't half look awkward with the ball.
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I just hope AM puts delph out to pasture. Does nothing IMO. Another transfer masterclass from MON - 6m on a guy not much more effective than osbourne.
It just isn't a thread without a Greg Nash dig at Martin O'Neill.
Well he's awful. 600k maybe but 6m?!
Depth is good player. By the end of this season we will regard him as our future. Except N'ash of course.
I hope you're right but i can't help feeling its the price tag that sparing him from criticism. I used to get all sorts of stick for pointing out Davies was bobbins, and he was. But because he cost us a fortune a lot of people didn't want to face the obvious.
But greg, you also thought Milner, Downing, Gabby and Ash Young were 'overpaid deadwood', so I'm not going to put too much store in your opinion on this one.
Did i percy? Still as delusional as ever i see
Yes, you said MON left us with 'a squad full of over-paid deadwood'. Allowing for your dreadful English, however, I'm prepared to accept that maybe you just don't know the meaning of the word 'full'.
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Delph can also be accused of not making the simple pass when it's on. He has a good engine and does get involved so he's showing good ambition. There are big question marks over his technical ability though. For such a short stature of a player he doesn't half look awkward with the ball.
Delph looks awkward on the ball because he has long legs, high hips and a short torso. He tucks his shirt in with his pants pulled up to his armpits which makes me laugh when I hear that he thinks of himself as a bit of a hard-nut.
I think technically he is very competent, just a little overzealous in the challenge. Most of his training is in the weights room at the moment from what I read a few weeks ago, because McLeish wants him to get his strength up. We've seen that he has a good shot a nice pass, pace and a decent first touch.
A large part of why he gets caught on the ball is because quite frequently no-one is moving to create an option and he doesn't just want to hit and hope, he wants to pick the right pass and thinks he has more time than what he actually does before getting closed down. He telegraphs his ball movement slightly when he shifts it around while looking for a pass and he needs to use his right foot more playing in centre mid at this level.
He has had less than 20 appearances for Aston Villa and I believe he has shown enough quality so far to say that he is going to be a very good player. He is by no means the finished article but has so much upside it is worth persevering. I also believe McLeish is trying to get him to learn the holding role so he can be a more complete box-to-box player when he lets the shackles off.
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Caiphus: insightful summation of Delph's abilities and intelligent speculation on his future role at the end there IMO.
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He has had less than 20 appearances for Aston Villa and I believe he has shown enough quality so far to say that he is going to be a very good player. He is by no means the finished article but has so much upside it is worth persevering.
Indeed.
This is a young player who joined from a lower league, and was then out injured for, what, over a year?
I thought Delph was poor on Sunday, but that's one game. What's the rush to write players off recently? We are having the same thing with N'Zogbia - why would anyone want to write off a 10m signing after FIVE league games? Were they writing Downing off in his first half season, too?
With our wafer thin squad, we're not really in a position to be writing anyone off in too much of a hurry, either.
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I just hope AM puts delph out to pasture. Does nothing IMO. Another transfer masterclass from MON - 6m on a guy not much more effective than osbourne.
It just isn't a thread without a Greg Nash dig at Martin O'Neill.
Well he's awful. 600k maybe but 6m?!
Depth is good player. By the end of this season we will regard him as our future. Except N'ash of course.
I hope you're right but i can't help feeling its the price tag that sparing him from criticism. I used to get all sorts of stick for pointing out Davies was bobbins, and he was. But because he cost us a fortune a lot of people didn't want to face the obvious.
But greg, you also thought Milner, Downing, Gabby and Ash Young were 'overpaid deadwood', so I'm not going to put too much store in your opinion on this one.
Did i percy? Still as delusional as ever i see
Yes, you said MON left us with 'a squad full of over-paid deadwood'. Allowing for your dreadful English, however, I'm prepared to accept that maybe you just don't know the meaning of the word 'full'.
heh. i think i'll skip the tiresome "meanings of words" arguement you had lined up for tonight. But by all means try again, even if your attempts at starting an arguement are as usual unimaginative, lack substance and are almost always ripped off from other people. A sort of Paul Weller Troll almost.
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Come on Greg! You would have had to have pretty selective viewing of nearly every thread on this forum to miss you pointing out that 'MON left us with a squad full of overpaid deadwood'. It should be your bloody tag-line!
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Come on Greg! You would have had to have pretty selective viewing of nearly every thread on this forum to miss you pointing out that 'MON left us with a squad full of overpaid deadwood'. It should be your bloody tag-line!
Oh i don't know, i think his 'Paul Scholes can't pass' comment will always be remembered with much amusement.
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I liked his three day argument in which he thought zonal marking referred to how you play the ball out of defence. Fair play to him though, after three years of reading his name he's finally learned how to spell Delpth (sic).
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I liked his three day argument in which he thought zonal marking referred to how you play the ball out of defence. Fair play to him though, after three years of reading his name he's finally learned how to spell Delpth (sic).
Hardly. Anyway i think its how we react to being wrong that's the key. So while most of us take it on the chin, you after spending the best part of 4/5 years telling us what a genius and all round top bloke MON was, decided to disappear under a rock for a good 3 months after he shafted us. But i guess if you're going to be wrong about something, its best to go all out and set a new world record for it. :0)
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No idea if O'Neill is a top bloke. Never have had, don't suppose I ever will, as I've told you countless times.Maybe one day it will sink in. Again, for the umpteenth time, not a genius, just a good manager. I base my judgement on results, not agenda-driven bollocks, which is why I don't have to take it on the chin quite as much as you do. Anyway, thanks for the Paul Weller comparison mate, it really means a lot that you would pay me such a compliment while we're having an arguement(sic).
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No idea if O'Neill is a top bloke. Never have had, don't suppose I ever will, as I've told you countless times.Maybe one day it will sink in. Again, for the umpteenth time, not a genius, just a good manager. I base my judgement on results, not agenda-driven bollocks, which is why I don't have to take it on the chin quite as much as you do. Anyway, thanks for the Paul Weller comparison mate, that really means a lot that would pay me such a compliment while we're having an arguement(sic).
ah come on percy, there's probably the equivalent of the Encyclopedia Britannica of your musings on MON's genius in the archives here. As one of those who saw right through him early on we let you MON-ettes off pretty much scott-free 'cos we're nice like that, but its an awfully big elephant in the room when you choose to bring up other people's failures of judgement. If i'd spent 4 years defending someone who then basically shit all over the club and his supporters, I guess i'd have probably disappeared as well. hell i'd be going through the archives deleting all my posts. But then anyone who admits to liking paul weller already has a well developed immunity to embarassment. Just buythe originals for god sake. Its probably a hell of a lot cheaper than buying his half-assed take-offs.
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Fuck me. He's having a go at Weller now!
Mentalist.
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Come on Greg! You would have had to have pretty selective viewing of nearly every thread on this forum to miss you pointing out that 'MON left us with a squad full of overpaid deadwood'. It should be your bloody tag-line!
Oh i don't know, i think his 'Paul Scholes can't pass' comment will always be remembered with much amusement.
Oh, that was definately my favourite.
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No idea if O'Neill is a top bloke. Never have had, don't suppose I ever will, as I've told you countless times.Maybe one day it will sink in. Again, for the umpteenth time, not a genius, just a good manager. I base my judgement on results, not agenda-driven bollocks, which is why I don't have to take it on the chin quite as much as you do. Anyway, thanks for the Paul Weller comparison mate, that really means a lot that would pay me such a compliment while we're having an arguement(sic).
ah come on percy, there's probably the equivalent of the Encyclopedia Britannica of your musings on MON's genius in the archives here. As one of those who saw right through him early on we let you MON-ettes off pretty much scott-free 'cos we're nice like that, but its an awfully big elephant in the room when you choose to bring up other people's failures of judgement. If i'd spent 4 years defending someone who then basically shit all over the club and his supporters, I guess i'd have probably disappeared as well. hell i'd be going through the archives deleting all my posts. But then anyone who admits to liking paul weller already has a well developed immunity to embarassment. Just buythe originals for god sake. Its probably a hell of a lot cheaper than buying his half-assed take-offs.
Honestly and objectively mate, I think he's a good manager, no more. I really don't think he's done enough to be bracketed with Clough, Stein, Shankley or Busby, and I don't think anybody else does either. As I recall, most of our arguments have been me saying he's a good manager and you calling me silly names and saying he's absolutely fucking terrible, not me saying he's a genius and you saying he's not.
It's as though you have to exaggerate my opinion of MON in order to argue with me. Don't you feel confident of arguing against my view that he's merely a good manager?