Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on January 05, 2011, 07:02:21 AM
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Available Wednesday night.
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Disaster, complete and utter disaster.
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Just when Heskey was getting some good wishes...
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Houllier out.
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We are now in a relegation battle. One I am not sure we have the stomach for
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I think we are going down, why start and play all the game with a system that was set up to counter Chelsea away, it wasnt working ever body could see that, he had a pretty decent squad to pick from, by the time he changed it was too late. He hasnt got a clue.
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Randy do the right thing Houllier OUT!Utter disgrace,shocking,disastorous!!!
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Bye Bye French Tosser
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We are now in a relegation battle.
We have been for weeks. Has it taken us being in the bottom three for you to realise?
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Fucking disaster, now in the bottom three, 5 points out of the last 27 available.
GH pull your fucking finger out.
And why did you bother with Pires?
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BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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Well I have always been thinking we will never go down and Houllier should be given to the end of the season. I don't anymore. Sadly I honestly think we need to make a change and make it soon.
Relegation would be an utter disaster.
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hes got to go, anyone know a radio station for villa fans to phone in?
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F**K OFF HOULLIER!!!
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Get him out.
As clueless a selection as MON at his worst. Subs when it's too late...again worse than MON at his worst. He'll use the Heskey red card as an excuse when we were completely inept for the hour prior.
An fucking disgrace. And I'm embarassed to see us in the bottom three. First time since O'Dreary is it?
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Oh dear oh dear oh dear. Houllier looked resigned to his fate to me..............Well at least I hope he is
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Tonight I've changed my mind about the likelihood of relegation (high) and whether houllier should go (yes).
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We are in big trouble, whatever way we look at it, we are now in a very precarious position. Will we stay up with houiller? I am not convinced at all, we are basically newcastle from 2 seasons ago.
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You cannot blame injuries etc for that today.
This was down to poor tactics and EH being a clown.
We are going down boys.
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I have wanted to give Houllier a chance up til now.
Gabby played out wide is ineffective.
Ashley Young played in the middle off the striker. Why continue with it, it has been unproductive all season and Young is very good at running around with little end product and to be honest if he went I don't think it would be the end of the world. Don't get me started on his continual waste of free kicks.
If players have fallen out with Houllier they need to remember that it's Aston Villa that pay their wages, not Houllier.
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Ged out!
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I actually think all the farting around by the board "doing things right" is coming home to roost amongst other things. It's like a house of cards.
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Resign
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Why can't we be just 'indifferent' for while? Why does it have to turn to complete shit straight away?
Arseholes to it all.
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We are now in a relegation battle.
We have been for weeks. Has it taken us being in the bottom three for you to realise?
I must admit I've been in denial but i'm not now.
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We need new players and fast- these players will not keep us up!
Can we afford to sack a manager in the transfer window again? I do not know what to think but if houllier stays he needs lots of cash and signings now- and if he goes we need a new manager straight away and new players in- we cannot afford to dither as randy did in august!
Back him and give him a load of cash - or sack him and replace him very fast - it's your call randy !
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I really wanted Houllier to succeed and wanted to avoid knee-jerk reactions. This is not a knee-jerk reaction, he's had a go and injuries and players aside, shown he's not up to the job. Doesn't know what his best side is, plays our best striker out wide, doesn't have the balls/nous to change things and fails to get the best out of anybody bar Heskey.
That was fucking abysmal against a poor Sunderland side. The Club needs to take action now before its too late.
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I think we are going down, why start and play all the game with a system that was set up to counter Chelsea away, it wasnt working ever body could see that, he had a pretty decent squad to pick from, by the time he changed it was too late. He hasnt got a clue.
100%. Giving Albrighton - probably our most creative and effective player all season - just the last 2 mins + injury time was simply absurd. Fuck off Houllier - I'd rather have KMac back in charge than you!
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We are getting the luck of a relegation team, i.e f**k all, but Houllier has once again shown he does not possess the tactical nous, or capability of motivating a team to get a result
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Hopefully by the time MOTD comes on Houllier will have resigned....we can all hope!
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I actually think all the farting around by the board "doing things right" is coming home to roost amongst other things. It's like a house of cards.
I tend to agree. All that shite in the summer about behaving decently, planning for the long term, not rushing things, etc. etc. is now starting to look like naivety from management that don't know how to run a club when the shit is hitting the fan.
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Mr.Lerner - DO NOT give Houllier any money to spend - get rid now!
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I feel sick...
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I know sacking him will makes things tricky, but that clueless arsehole is taking us down, so what have we got to lose?
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Disgraceful. Great result followed by a shit result. Time and time again it's happened this season.
I never thought relegation would be a reality until I saw us in the bottom 3.
Everyone around us winnning - why are we not showing any fight?
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I do hope Jar Jar Binks is doing bags packing right now!!!
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We are so fucked. Time to act Randy.
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first time in the bottom 3 for 8 years... EIGHT YEARS
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Disgraceful. Great result followed by a shit result. Time and time again it's happened this season.
I never thought relegation would be a reality until I saw us in the bottom 3.
Everyone around us winnning - why are we not showing any fight?
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A very predictable result!
Looks like we'll be getting a load more OS reports from the players.
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Oh dear, Randy has to either back Houllier massively in this transfer window or get rid of him now. I'm going to do an about face and say time to go Mr Houllier, I like you, but you haven't delivered.
Big Sam suddenly looks an attractive proposition.
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I know sacking him will makes things tricky, but that clueless arsehole is taking us down, so what have we got to lose?
Fuck all at the moment.
I don't want us to be one of those clubs who sack the manager every time he has a few bad results but this clown has to go.
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Ancelotti might be available by the morning
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Oh dear, Randy has to either back Houllier massively in this transfer window or get rid of him now. I'm going to do an about face and say time to go Mr Houllier, I like you, but you haven't delivered.
Big Sam suddenly looks an attractive proposition.
Is that how low we have sunk?
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Sunderland's goal was a bit lucky, could have landed in row Z and they are not a bad team. That said, we are a shambles, poor tactics, lack of creativity, dodgy defensive set up and unlucky to boot.
We will really struggle to stay up this year, I really can't work out why we are so poor.
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Not Big Sam, not ever. If Houllier goes there can be plenty of other options.
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Chris Houghton anyone? or a temp manager to trouble shoot, there is enough in that squad to get us out of trouble I dont think GH can though
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If randy does sack him he has to have someone ready to come straight in - we cannot afford to not make signings and be managerless - I think hodgson may be out tomorrow as well - it is crisis time!
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We are so fucked. Time to act Randy.
Well, I'll give it a go but no promises. ;o)
First time we've lost back to back home league games for over 3 years. First time we've been in the bottom 3 since 2003.
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I always thought we were far too good to go down- now I'm not sure we have what it takes (BALLS) to stay up.
Houllier must go!!! The man is utterly clueless
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Get rid.
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We. Are. Fucked.
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first time in the bottom 3 for 8 years... EIGHT YEARS
I can't remember, but was that after 21 games, or say...ten?
Lerner needs to be careful with how long he holds on to this dud, because eventually he'll become accountable. Dangerous territory, considering how well he's done so far.
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Disgraceful. Great result followed by a shit result. Time and time again it's happened this season.
I never thought relegation would be a reality until I saw us in the bottom 3.
Everyone around us winnning - why are we not showing any fight?
I don't get how anyone thinks it was good result, we were wining with 7 minutes to go? We conceded all the goals the first and the two late one's because players made mistakes!
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If randy does sack him he has to have someone ready to come straight in - we cannot afford to not make signings and be managerless - I think hodgson may be out tomorrow as well - it is crisis time!
He should fall on his sword...
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I don't want us to be one of those clubs who sack the manager every time he has a few bad results but this clown has to go.
Agree completely. I'm all about continutity and not having knee-jerk reactions ... but you almost have to be TRYING if you take a top-6 team and put them in the relegation zone in less than 6 months.
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We're paying the price for sitting around during the summer, pausing only to sell our best player and bring in a guy who doesn't want to play for us (and isn't playing for us) as his replacement. While other teams were buying players like Gyan and Van Der Vaart, we did absolutely fuck all.
Unless Houllier has a shit hot transfer window then we're going down. I'm pissed off but I still can't see the point of sacking him and bringing in someone like Allardyce.
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HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...HOULLIER OUT...
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After the red card he played for a scoreless draw, hence the lack of subs. But Albrighton for one of the lacklustre Downing, Gabby or Young would have given us a fresh outlet. Was he too afraid to bring off one of the big players? Wouldn't be surprised. I was calling for changes 10 mins before Heskey got himself sent off - seriously, it was like MON without the backbone.
No confidence or conviction going forward, Young always going on the outside before over-hitting a cross or playing for a free. And this Sunderland side were bog standard.
Creatively void without the nippers - not Houllier's fault but his training regime has not made these players improve their passing, vision and movement which we badly missed with O'Neill. Overhauling/implementing a scouting system aside we seem to have regressed in every other way. It may be only four months but give him another four months, and going by his recent record, he will take us down.
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Oh dear, Randy has to either back Houllier massively in this transfer window or get rid of him now. I'm going to do an about face and say time to go Mr Houllier, I like you, but you haven't delivered.
Big Sam suddenly looks an attractive proposition.
Is that how low we have sunk?
I think it is, whilst there are many other managers i would prefer to him in the long term we need someone that can turn things around now with the players we have. That man is Big Sam. I would even worry about bringing Jol in at this time, in the summer yes, but bringing him in now would i fear put him in a similar situation to Houllier.
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We are so fucked. Time to act Randy.
Well, I'll give it a go but no promises. ;o)
First time we've lost back to back home league games for over 3 years. First time we've been in the bottom 3 since 2003.
, There's the comma I forgot !
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Chelsea and Liverpool will be looking for a new manager this week. So not a good time to go looking. Randy you should have acted sooner.
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I know sacking him will makes things tricky, but that clueless arsehole is taking us down, so what have we got to lose?
if you can't see that sharpen away.
Just what we need no manager for another 5 weeks and during the transfer window. Funny most of those demanding a sacking on here have less than 20 posts.
unless Randy has done a deal with a new man its hope for more of the performances as at Chelsea than the shite from tonight.
Or it will be relegation. What a legact Mon left, quitting when he did
No wonder General K went into hiding best move anyone associated with Villa has done all season.
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Mr.Lerner - DO NOT give Houllier any money to spend - get rid now!
I feel really sorry for Randy. Years of generous investment and for what? No trophies, no top 4 finish, into the bottom 3 and a problem called Houllier.
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Houllier out - that is all.
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We need money to save ourselves..Lots of it!
Randy plainly does not have access to the funds required anymore.
Therefore it is obvious if there is an interested new buyer out there they should make their move..now!
Bleating on about Houllier will do nothing to help..we need a new source of funding.
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About face by me...was all for giving him a window and a bit longer. Bite the bullet now and get rid....it's an alarming slump with no signs of it getting better...
What are the odds of GH, Ancelotti and Hodgson all being gone by the weekend...
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Wow, how long is it since H&V crashed!!!??
You could argue that if Heskey could score from 3yards or kept his hands to himself, we'd have won.
But what I can't overlook is
- playing AY in the middle - for christs sake - he's our most creative player when on the wing.
- playing gabby on the wing as above
- playing AY as a centre back- yes a centre back- for the last five minutes
- not making substitions straight after Zendens sending off.
We could all see O'Neills faults but I wish he was back here now, crap football, crazy transfers and all.
p.s And I blame Gerard Houllier for not collecting my bin bags.
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I'd still rather Houllier than Allardyce, I couldn't stomach him managing Villa.
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We need money to save ourselves..Lots of it!
Randy plainly does not have access to the funds required anymore.
Therefore it is obvious if there is an interested new buyer out there they should make their move..now!
Bleating on about Houllier will do nothing to help..we need a new source of funding.
Are you serious?
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Its amazing how basically the same team that in the last few years has been fighting for a euro place and wembley appearances are now being rolled over by mediocre teams at home.
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O.K, this is a bit of a mess now.
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please Gerard - if you have an ounce of pride left - walk away and remember the PL good times with the bin dippers.
Timing has been awful for us this year - MoN (done to death) now we all know we need a new man at the helm, but with the window 5 days open, bringing in a new guy and expecting him to do any meaningful business will be a big ask.
Houllier though looks to be well past it - so throwing cash in his direction is essentially flushing it down the pan - so what's Randy got to loose by offloading him.
Bottom line he will need to buy 18 new players in the window (those who can replace the ones he's pissed off - and those who can't play his way) which of course is fantasy.
Pires insight today said it all for me - he's not the man for this job and we can't afford to let him carry on - even though the timing once again is shite. I for one don't want to go to the sty with him in charge.
Roll on next season - right what booze is left after Christmas - a hangover must have my name on it!!!!!!
UTV
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Feel totally sick. To late to sack Houllier. Gotta give him a wedge and get in massive quality players. Heskey out for three games need two world class strikers now !!!! and same for left back and right back along with a serious def mid. Cannot face my scum mates tommorow ..........
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We are fooked.... I am actually shitting it now... in the drop zone starting the new year, who'd have thought it..
Our beloved club has an inept manager who thinks we are lucky to have him.
Ged you are the weakest link, goodbye
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wouldnt we be better off getting relegated than having to put up with Big Sam anti-football?
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Sunderland's goal was a bit lucky, could have landed in row Z and they are not a bad team. That said, we are a shambles, poor tactics, lack of creativity, dodgy defensive set up and unlucky to boot.
We will really struggle to stay up this year, I really can't work out why we are so poor.
Agreed. Sunderland to their credit played as a team; defended and attacked as a team. We on the other hand look so bloody disjointed you'd think the players met in the car park before the game for the first time.
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The big plus that anybody coming in to take over would be that they are not Gerard Houllier. We have to win a few games quickly. It is no good poncing about and getting rid of Houllier in March it will be too late by then.
I seem to recall that last week those of us who were pointing out that Houllier had to be replaced immediately were called "idiots" on the Houllier thread.
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wouldnt we be better off getting relegated than having to put up with Big Sam anti-football?
Yes in the long run, and I genuinely believe it. If you have Allardyce in charge, there is no point in bothering.
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Does anybody have Martin Jol's number?
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It's an awful awful time to switch managers.....but I think that it could worth the risk. Apart from anything else, there are managers available immediately - Jol, Allardyce, Hodgson(?!).....
This shit would never have happened under Bob Bradley...
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I'd still rather Houllier than Allardyce, I couldn't stomach him managing Villa.
at least sam gets teams fighting together as 1. i dont want him either, but between the 2 its big sam
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For whatever reason these players are not giving their all for the manager- we will not survive with these displays- why he is not getting the best out of them is open to question but the players should hang their heads in shame- do they really care about Aston villa?
As for houllier I have been behind him but something is very wrong- he either has to be backed to bring in 4 or 5 players or has to go- he will not get the best from these players.
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Is Kevin Mac still at the club?
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wouldnt we be better off getting relegated than having to put up with Big Sam anti-football?
The fact that question has to be asked (and I nearly did so myself), means Big Sam is not the man. For anyone. Ever.
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Wht not?..a new manager is not foing to save us with present squad
I don't think there is any money in the pot now or for a good while yet.
Call t 'Get rid of Houllier' are same as Get rid of MoN get ready of DoL..blah..needs complete restructure..
Get radical..We need money to save ourselves..Lots of it!
Randy plainly does not have access to the funds required anymore.
Therefore it is obvious if there is an interested new buyer out there they should make their move..now!
Bleating on about Houllier will do nothing to help..we need a new source of funding.
Are you serious?
Wht not?..a new manager is not going to save us with present squad
I don't think there is any money in the pot now or for a good while yet.
Call t 'Get rid of Houllier' are same as Get rid of MoN get ready of DoL..blah..needs complete restructure..
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Its amazing how basically the same team that in the last few years has been fighting for a euro place and wembley appearances are now being rolled over by mediocre teams at home.
Amazing? Disgraceful I would call it!!
I was originally of the mind to give him a transfer window and til the end of the season. But enough is enough!!
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Give the job back to KMac. Whoever is in charge, who can be attract to a bottom 3 club?
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wouldnt we be better off getting relegated than having to put up with Big Sam anti-football?
Yes in the long run, and I genuinely believe it. If you have Allardyce in charge, there is no point in bothering.
Because in the long run having Allardyce in charge ruined Bolton?
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wouldnt we be better off getting relegated than having to put up with Big Sam anti-football?
The fact that question has to be asked (and I nearly did so myself), means Big Sam is not the man. For anyone. Ever.
i prefer to play anti football in the prem than good football in the championship
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Watching the studio after tonights games, and they are saying that Gareth Southgate is taking it hard that Villa is in the dropzone...He could not do it worse - could he?
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They have had time to look around..but not Allardyce I agree..
but if we slip another place it will be a diehard no-messing type that gets the job..
we should not be here. But we are!
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I wouldn't be too fussed if we didn't sign anyone (ok a centre forawrd is a must)...just need to get this lot playing as they can play. There's an awful lot of talent there, more than enough to see us safe this season. I am just baffled as to how the performances as a team have crumbled so quickly....
I'd get Jol if GH does go.
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Not a big fan of sacking managers tbh, especially after 6 mths, but we need to sort something out pdq.
Problems were up front, Heskey played well, but missed 2 open goals.Gabby f...all, AYoung, too selfish.
Petrov....completely anonymous.
Cuellar....not FB at home.
Downing......hidding again.
Whoever we have as manager, we need a RB, at least 2 central midfielders and a goal scorer up front, you bring another manager will have to have time to assess the players, and waste another season.
We played with no brains today....AYoung played as if he wanted to beat 2/3 players every time he got the ball.Gabby....well what did he do?Petrov....finished.
MONs team has gone, GH has'nt had time to bring his own players in yet, should we give him time....not sure tbh?
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Go NOW. We all know how well the French do in battle!
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Watching the studio after tonights games, and they are saying that Gareth Southgate is taking it hard that Villa is in the dropzone...He could not do it worse - could he?
I can't think of any half decent manager who would do worse.
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For four years we we're effectively Martin O'Neill FC. Everything seemed to be geared towards finding and developing players that suited the Martin O'Neill philosophy of football. It didn't work terribly well when we was in charge and now that he is gone it is a total disaster. It's going to take a total overhaul of the team to put this right.
One of the most depressing aspects of this whole scenario is that, far from diminishing O'Neill's reputation, it will make him even more of a legend in the eyes of the media. The Clough-protoge who took 'little' Aston Villa within ear shot of the Champions League...
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Houllier is still working with damaged goods..we need new blood out there.
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I'd still rather Houllier than Allardyce, I couldn't stomach him managing Villa.
The tweets would be amazing.
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In all fairness, Big Sam gets a lot of criticism for playing boring, anti-football, but has he ever managed a side with technically decent players? Maybe if he came here he'd have the players to play a different way.
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Houllier is still working with damaged goods..we need new blood out there.
We'll be damaged beyond repair if we leave Houllier in charge for much longer.
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Only saw the second half ,Paul Walsh in commentary was saying constantly we needed to swap Young and Gabby it was obvious to all except Houllier.I think he has to go when you look at Chelsea's recent results a draw against them is not as great as it looks especially when we were winning the game.
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Get rid and give it to Kevin Mac.
The players liked him, he'll revert to the football they know, Ireland have something to offer. He should get us six wins.
I like Houllier, and given time and resources I think he'd turn it round. But the facts are there, we need to win six games between now and the end of the season and we're not gonna do it under him.
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We need a caretaker until summer to keep us up. Somebody who can reorganise the defence and make us fight. Warnock would do the job. Runs for cover...............
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Just got back and that display was utter garbage.
Utter spineless from the lot of them (except Heskey, who can't score for toffee but otherwise was brilliant). Bruce was out of the dugout all the time shouting at his players, nothing from our management team!
People talk about not wanting Sam but surely we can't play any worse under him than that tonight?
The atmosphere was awful, the whole place seemed like a morgue just waiting for the passing of the last rites, which on that display will happen towards the end of the season if no action is taken!
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For four years we we're effectively Martin O'Neill FC. Everything seemed to be geared towards finding and developing players that suited the Martin O'Neill philosophy of football. It didn't work terribly well when we was in charge and now that he is gone it is a total disaster. It's going to take a total overhaul of the team to put this right.
Yeah, because three consecutive top 6 finishes and a LC Final appearance and FAC semi-final in his last season was an unmitigated failure, wasn't it?
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Just got in, haven't read the thread yet, but an totally disgusted, upset, but mostly worried.
It took 86 minutes before that overpaid bunch of wankers decided to start playing...86 fucking minutes!!!!!
And then, in the remaining time and injury time we resort to 'football' that you would not see at the lowest level in the park on a sunday morning.
To me, it appears that there are many players who really don't want to play for this manager, but a special mention for Agbonlahor and Dunne who were an embarrasment to their proffession tonight.
Sack the frenchman.
Save any money till the summer
As much as I hate to say it, get Allerdyce in till the end of the season to motivate that overpaid,cossetted bunch of wankers to try and save us from the drop, although I fea it may be too late.
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In all fairness, Big Sam gets a lot of criticism for playing boring, anti-football, but has he ever managed a side with technically decent players? Maybe if he came here he'd have the players to play a different way.
he had newcastle for a month, there had some decent players, what happened to them that season
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p.s And I blame Gerard Houllier for not collecting my bin bags.
Mr Woo, thats harsh ! I blame the council.
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Everyone just calm down a bit. Everyone is angry and directs it at houllier but sacking him isnt the way forward. If this lot wont play for him, ged needs to get rid and replace them. It looks like im a lone voice but im keeping the faith...
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Ok, enough is enough. Houllier has got to go or we'll be relegated.
I don't like Big Sams football either but it's horses for courses when we are in a relegation scrap - with these players, with their obvious mindset for a battle he'd be just what we need in the short term.
And S4FX, this is not MON's fault anymore - we are not in the botton three because of MON. This is down to GH and much as I hate to say it RAL.
Randy needs to show some leadership now, Lord knows no else seems to be on the footballing side.
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Whatever happens Randy needs to be bold, either back GH with big cash or get rid off him asap and make an appointment within the week, however I'm not sure that the board have the knowledge to make the right appointment in such a short amount of time.
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In all fairness, Big Sam gets a lot of criticism for playing boring, anti-football, but has he ever managed a side with technically decent players? Maybe if he came here he'd have the players to play a different way.
he had newcastle for a month, there had some decent players, what happened to them that season
he got sacked halfway through because their chairman is an idiot, and then got relegated the season after.
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Just back, truly shocking again, as if chelski didn't happen
Why does Downing play on the right and why is Gabby out on the left wing
It doesn't work
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look at houlliers record in the transfer market at liverpool, we might get the next salif diao
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wouldnt we be better off getting relegated than having to put up with Big Sam anti-football?
Yes in the long run, and I genuinely believe it. If you have Allardyce in charge, there is no point in bothering.
Because in the long run having Allardyce in charge ruined Bolton?
Indeed, but also it's not about the long run it's about now, who can come in, work with the players available and get results. Big Sam with his back to basics English style could come in and get those players working for him straight away, and no doubt he'd pick up a few cheap bargains in the transfer window too. Get him in on a temporary contract until the summer then we can bring someone like Jol in.
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Everyone just calm down a bit. Everyone is angry and directs it at houllier but sacking him isnt the way forward. If this lot wont play for him, ged needs to get rid and replace them. It looks like im a lone voice but im keeping the faith...
With respect, you're mental. If there were signs of him getting it right, you'd have a point, but we're sinking like a stone. He's been an unmitigated disaster since Randy appointed him.
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Everyone just calm down a bit. Everyone is angry and directs it at houllier but sacking him isnt the way forward. If this lot wont play for him, ged needs to get rid and replace them. It looks like im a lone voice but im keeping the faith...
I agree Matt. You are not alone in the wilderness.
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We need 3 or 4 new players in quick who can have an immediate impact, I know I know where do we buy them and now other teams will push the price up especially as it's the Villa and we need players. Tonight's game was dreadful and none of the players stepped up, it feels even worse than 05/06 under the pug nosed one!
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Kevin Mac 'til end of season with GH kicked upstairs in some director of football role to sort out the non playing stuff
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Everyone just calm down a bit. Everyone is angry and directs it at houllier but sacking him isnt the way forward. If this lot wont play for him, ged needs to get rid and replace them. It looks like im a lone voice but im keeping the faith...
I agree Matt. You are not alone in the wilderness.
i also agree
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Everyone just calm down a bit. Everyone is angry and directs it at houllier but sacking him isnt the way forward. If this lot wont play for him, ged needs to get rid and replace them. It looks like im a lone voice but im keeping the faith...
I agree Matt. You are not alone in the wilderness.
i also agree
blind leading the blind.
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im going to sit back and try to enjoy watching the villa on line this season cos i wont be able to get many championship games on
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Everyone just calm down a bit. Everyone is angry and directs it at houllier but sacking him isnt the way forward. If this lot wont play for him, ged needs to get rid and replace them. It looks like im a lone voice but im keeping the faith...
I agree Matt. You are not alone in the wilderness.
i also agree
blind leading the blind.
i also agree
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This season will be about survival. Avoid relegation then have a major, and I mean MAJOR overhaul in the summer.
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The manager is getting the flack - and rightly so, in regard to tactics and substitutions (or lack of)
BUT
the players deserve alot of critcism too .
Cuellar - woeful distribution
Petrov - anonymous
Reo Coker - limited
Downing - hid all game - wouldnt take players on 'one on one' but tried to when he had 3 round him
Gabby - dreadful - again. Wasted on the wing , no better centrally
Ash - all over the place( I expected him to take the goal kicks towards the end, he had every other dead ball)
The players need to take their share of the blame too. I am officially concerned.
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Everyone just calm down a bit. Everyone is angry and directs it at houllier but sacking him isnt the way forward. If this lot wont play for him, ged needs to get rid and replace them. It looks like im a lone voice but im keeping the faith...
With respect, you're mental. If there were signs of him getting it right, you'd have a point, but we're sinking like a stone. He's been an unmitigated disaster since Randy appointed him.
For 85mins we were beating chelsea. For 85mins we were beating united. If (I know its a big if) we had held those results we would be up around mid table now and looking forward to a good jan transfer window and the team pushing on.
emotions are high at the moment but margins are very fine in this league, were just a bit down on luck...
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For four years we we're effectively Martin O'Neill FC. Everything seemed to be geared towards finding and developing players that suited the Martin O'Neill philosophy of football. It didn't work terribly well when we was in charge and now that he is gone it is a total disaster. It's going to take a total overhaul of the team to put this right.
One of the most depressing aspects of this whole scenario is that, far from diminishing O'Neill's reputation, it will make him even more of a legend in the eyes of the media. The Clough-protoge who took 'little' Aston Villa within ear shot of the Champions League...
The best post of the last 6 months
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Utter garbage tonight and as others have said half a dozen were a disgrace to their profession tonight as they didn;t put a shift n.
We can't sack the amanager as it has been proven not to work. We need to give him £20m now to get 3 or 4 players in within the window and clear the shite out in the summer.
If we don't then with this bunch of gutless tossers, we will go down.
Keep Houlier and give him some cash now!
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I hope GH falls on his sword, he has been the worst appointment since Billy Mc Neill.
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For four years we we're effectively Martin O'Neill FC. Everything seemed to be geared towards finding and developing players that suited the Martin O'Neill philosophy of football. It didn't work terribly well when we was in charge and now that he is gone it is a total disaster. It's going to take a total overhaul of the team to put this right.
Yeah, because three consecutive top 6 finishes and a LC Final appearance and FAC semi-final in his last season was an unmitigated failure, wasn't it?
Sorry what I meant was that considering the monetary outlay and considering that it was all about the result with O'Neill, attractive football was not on the agenda, 6th place was the least you could have hoped for. At least there was stability and the prospect of progress. Lerner should never have let him go. If he was going to give him that amount of money to blow in the first place and such control over every aspect of the club then he should have made damn well sure he was staying for the long haul.
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Whatever happens Randy needs to be bold, either back GH with big cash or get rid off him asap and make an appointment within the week, however I'm not sure that the board have the knowledge to make the right appointment in such a short amount of time.
Sensible comment.
Clearly the squad he has he cannot get playing at all.
He needs a new heartbeat to the side, 2 central midfielders of quality, and 2 strikers that have movement and skill. Young needs to be a left winger, or be sold.
Downing has to stay left. Albrighton needs to be back in on the right.
Tonight, Heskey fair play son, you cared more than the rest put together, and I hope you come back into the team and do well after the ban. Sunderland should be ashamed of their play acting and their actions in getting you sent off.
The rest of the side - Cuellar at home showed all the old weaknesses, the midfield was pedestrian and clueless, Gabby up top with Heskey made a difference - not a chnace, he looked completely uninterested from the start. Young is rubbish behind the striker too. We miss Milner so badly. He was the golden thread that tied us together, the bag is split open now and the shit is falling out.
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That was utterly inept from start to finish.
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we can't even blame Doug..... >:(
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The players wont play for him, and while it's their fault we're in this we need them to get us out of it, weather we like it or not.
Get KMac and revert to the tactics they know. Play hoofball/on the counter and stay up and they clear the wankers out in the Summer.
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Everyone just calm down a bit. Everyone is angry and directs it at houllier but sacking him isnt the way forward. If this lot wont play for him, ged needs to get rid and replace them. It looks like im a lone voice but im keeping the faith...
I agree Matt. You are not alone in the wilderness.
I wish I still shared your confidence but it is getting pretty desperate.
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Everyone just calm down a bit. Everyone is angry and directs it at houllier but sacking him isnt the way forward. If this lot wont play for him, ged needs to get rid and replace them. It looks like im a lone voice but im keeping the faith...
Not sure you are a lone voice mate.
Most people would realise its a very, very dangerous time to be sacking a manager. Randy has a hell of a decision to make.
If we have decent striker lined up, ready to sign, for example - what would you do? See it through and hope for the best?
IF we sacked him now, it'll take 3 weeks at least to invite applications, conduct interviews and come to a decision. In other words, another transfer window passes us by.....
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The manager is getting the flack - and rightly so, in regard to tactics and substitutions (or lack of)
BUT
the players deserve alot of critcism too .
Absolutely spot on. I could not agree more.
These gutless tossers are getting away with it because the fans are so preoccupied with the manager. He doesn;t go out onto the pitch and he cannot do anything if an overpaid wanker doesn;t want to put a shift in. In fact he has so man of them who are of this mindset that this is the problem for us.
Get some new fresh faces in now and clear these wankers out in the summer
Cuellar - woeful distribution
Petrov - anonymous
Reo Coker - limited
Downing - hid all game - wouldnt take players on 'one on one' but tried to when he had 3 round him
Gabby - dreadful - again. Wasted on the wing , no better centrally
Ash - all over the place( I expected him to take the goal kicks towards the end, he had every other dead ball)
The players need to take their share of the blame too. I am officially concerned.
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Everyone just calm down a bit. Everyone is angry and directs it at houllier but sacking him isnt the way forward. If this lot wont play for him, ged needs to get rid and replace them. It looks like im a lone voice but im keeping the faith...
You obviously didn't go there tonight to watch that absolute utter crap!
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Dreadful dreadful performance. That was the final straw for me. Lerner has to sack the fool in charge and put Martin Jol in place.
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I hope GH falls on his sword, he has been the worst appointment since Billy Mc Neill.
I had a great away day at Anfield under McNeill, we drew 3-3, it all looked positive and as if improvement after the disaster of Graham Turner was on .... it didn't end well!
After seeing the Chelsea game and tonight's farce, it's got an eerily similar feel about it.
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Everyone just calm down a bit. Everyone is angry and directs it at houllier but sacking him isnt the way forward. If this lot wont play for him, ged needs to get rid and replace them. It looks like im a lone voice but im keeping the faith...
I agree Matt. You are not alone in the wilderness.
But he really has been an unmitigated disaster. In fact it would have been difficult for a manager to have been this bad if he had actually been trying to be completely useless and was on a pay off from SHA.
GH has done absolutely nothing to suggest he is capable of turning this round.
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We have been in a relegation battle for weeks; sadly what is looking increasingly likely is that we will be relegated - well done Gerard Houllier.
Absolutely clueless tonight after the great performance at Chelski
Still we have all those marquee signings to look forward to this January... Huddersfields keeper and a Spurs reserve on loan :0(
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New players is NOT the answer.
Think about it, any foreigners will need time to adapt to our game, and time is one thing we dont have... AND there are no guarantees anyone would actually turn things round for us.
British based players will be overpriced,cossetted and looking for a payday.
And ultimately, who, ANY GOOD, wants to sign for a club in the bottom 3.
No, the squad we have can get us up to at least 17/16/15...get a manager in who can motivate the current pricks to do what is needed.
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Everyone just calm down a bit. Everyone is angry and directs it at houllier but sacking him isnt the way forward. If this lot wont play for him, ged needs to get rid and replace them. It looks like im a lone voice but im keeping the faith...
It wasn't down to lack of effort that we lost tonight, it was down the absolute shite tactics adopted by the manager, shite tactics that took him 86 minutes to change.
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Being Martin O'Neill FC was preferable to being relegation candidates FC! And I say this as a constant crtitique of him.
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We will rise again.
If we can survive not getting relegated in O'dreary and Ellis's final season, we can do so again and challenge at the right end next season.
Utter garbage from Houllier though, it's a HOME game, play Gabby through the bleeding middle especially as all he was used for was to nulify Phil fcuking Bardsley's attacks on the right.
And btw you know things are bad when a mediocre former loan player slots in effortesley from 25 yards out.
Heskey actually held the ball up really well but no excuse for costing us the game twice, by missing from two yards and not getting sent off. We need a new striker a.s.a.p.
And after playing our hearts out on Sunday, why did he leave it so long to get on Albrighton and Bannan?!
When you go down to 10 men it usually makes sense to bring on fresh legs and a bit of pace to relieve the pressure a bit but no all we got was 5 minutes of constant Sunderland pressure until they scored. The football was garbage aswell, even more long ball than under the previous manager!!
I think he'll be sacked if we don't win at SHA as we certainly won't be beating Man. City the week after.
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Only Heskey played for the french twat tonight. The players basically said fuck you Houllier in the second half. Did I actually see Ashley Young as centre half and Richard Dunne as striker towards the end, fukin hilarious. I will be very interested to see what Dave Woodhall will say after his mantra of 3 points and were motoring posted a few days ago. Houllier is a clown and i wouldnt give him my daughters pocket money to spend in the window. Short term i would give Sam allardyce a go, we can look no further.
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Sorry to say, but we have no option but to get rid now. Whether you like the manager or not he's got to go.
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As for the game, when the half time whistle went someone behind me said "Thank fuck for that", both teams were poor, our best player was Heskey, who had missed an absolute sitter, I have to do an Arsene Wenger about what happened with the red card, I saw a lot of handbags and posturing but nothing that looked red card worthy, but something happened.
Gabby on the wing might work in away games, but it doesn't work at home. Downing on the right wasn't working, has he been told not to be too adventurous. They targetted Ciaran Clark all night and we didn't do anything to change it, 87 minutes and Houllier makes a sub, 87 fecking minutes.
Two quality moments, their goal, which was struck very sweetly and Barry Bannan's pass just after he came on, besides that it was an awful game.
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This is bad ...really bad.
I did not want Houlier however before tonight was of the opinion that we have to give him the season. Not any more.
First half was OK and Heskey could have had us 2-0 up. Sunderland created nothing. Second half we were shambolic. Forget the sending off we were abysmal. Petrov, Gabby, well everyone just aimless no direction no desire no care.
Subs Rene fucking subs when? 60 mins NO 70 min NO 75 mins NO 80 mins NO 85 mins oh finally. FFS we were down to 10. Bring on fresh legs so that we have some energy?
Finally the shambolic sight of Ash Young and Albrighton playing at centre back whilse Dunne , Collins and Cuellar wander about in and around their penalty area completely void of any directin any coordination. Players getting in each others way not knowing where they should be playing and out on the touchline we finally see Rene stand up and stand still. Nothing to the team no instructions no motivation.
ASTON VILLA deserves better Randy.
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New players is NOT the answer.
Think about it, any foreigners will need time to adapt to our game, and time is one thing we dont have... AND there are no guarantees anyone would actually turn things round for us.
British based players will be overpriced,cossetted and looking for a payday.
And ultimately, who, ANY GOOD, wants to sign for a club in the bottom 3.
No, the squad we have can get us up to at least 17/16/15...get a manager in who can motivate the current pricks to do what is needed.
this - tragically
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Just back from VP
GH hasn't got it right
gabby on the left??
Downing on the right???
Ahs in the middle????
It wasn't working yet we stuck with it-until it was too late
Emile had a good game(exept for the miss)
petrov is useless-nothing new there
none of our midfield can head a ball with only NRC any good at tackling(woeful 1st touch)
4 centre backs in defence
Cuellar cannot cross a ball-especially with his left
we need investment
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The manager is getting the flack - and rightly so, in regard to tactics and substitutions (or lack of)
BUT
the players deserve alot of critcism too .
Cuellar - woeful distribution
Petrov - anonymous
Reo Coker - limited
Downing - hid all game - wouldnt take players on 'one on one' but tried to when he had 3 round him
Gabby - dreadful - again. Wasted on the wing , no better centrally
Ash - all over the place( I expected him to take the goal kicks towards the end, he had every other dead ball)
The players need to take their share of the blame too. I am officially concerned.
And Inspector Clueless must take the blame for playing 4 of the above named out of position...
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For four years we we're effectively Martin O'Neill FC. Everything seemed to be geared towards finding and developing players that suited the Martin O'Neill philosophy of football. It didn't work terribly well when we was in charge and now that he is gone it is a total disaster. It's going to take a total overhaul of the team to put this right.
One of the most depressing aspects of this whole scenario is that, far from diminishing O'Neill's reputation, it will make him even more of a legend in the eyes of the media. The Clough-protoge who took 'little' Aston Villa within ear shot of the Champions League...
But thats what he did. The stats are clear, he took over from a season where we finished 16th and took us to 3 successive 6th finishes involving a battle for 4th place, a cup semi final and a cup final. The wage bill is managed by the executive board of the club, not the manager so thats not MON's fault.
Houllier meanwhile has pissed off half the players (including now the club captain who quite rightly looked well irritated to be subbed for a 5ft 6in 19 year old who seemed to end up playing half his time in central defence - must be his height and presence), taken the club into the relegation zone for the first time since when? Brian Little 13 years ago? His tactics are strange, the team are bereft of confidence and clearly don't want to play for him.
I'm all for giving managers time in the game to turn things around, but when it is so blatant that the Manager is this bad then its time for the board to man up and realise their mistake. Trouble is we've got Americans who are inexperienced in Association Football and an idiotic 17 year old YTS Chief Executive yes man who thinks its wise to make statements about supporting the manager through until next season after one half decent away performance against a team that Wolves can beat in their following match.
We're going down.
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Maybe it's because the Liverpool and Man City surrenders are so recent but I didn't think we were that bad tonight, certainly for the first 65 mins, but then started to panic when our MOTM was ordered off. Dunne wasn't at all composed, Collins dodgy too, but we appeared at least competent going forward yet insist on checking back when a cross needs delivering (Downing, Young, Cuellar). Forgive me for stating the bleeding obvious but until we learn to shoot at goal we will not score, can't remember many shots tonight.
Albrighton deserves a regular start but him apart, you can't really argue with the 11 we put out, that's probably our best team for what that's worth. With 10 teams all within 5 points of each other I'm not bricking it just yet but can certainly hear my insides grumbling in the nether region.
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New players is NOT the answer.
Think about it, any foreigners will need time to adapt to our game, and time is one thing we dont have... AND there are no guarantees anyone would actually turn things round for us.
British based players will be overpriced,cossetted and looking for a payday.
And ultimately, who, ANY GOOD, wants to sign for a club in the bottom 3.
No, the squad we have can get us up to at least 17/16/15...get a manager in who can motivate the current pricks to do what is needed.
I am with you Andy.
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The players do not want to play for the manager. That is wrong. It shouldn't be like that, but it quite clearly is, and as a result we are in big, big trouble.
Tonight was the night I realised that, actually, it's not going to get any better under GH, the players aren't going to suddenly find the passion under him, it just will not happen. Sometimes it is a case of wrong manager, wrong club, wrong time, and all three seem to have happened at the same time for us.
We genuinely are getting worse. It wasn't just that we were performing badly today, I couldn't even see what we were trying to do.
Clark looked out of his depth.
Collins just swung his leg at the ball every time he got within 5 yards of it.
Dunne seems unable to jump. How many balls flew past him?
Cuellar, after marauding forward in the first half like a(nother) winger, but then infuriatingly passing it back, went to shit in the second half.
Petrov and Reo-Coker were both absolutely rubbish. One (NRC) clearly doesn't care any more, the other is not good enough.
Gabby - I can't really tell what we were trying to do with him out there, but he might as well have been in the fucking stand.
Ashley - worked hard, but he must be getting dispirited, I'd be off if I were him.
Heskey - worked hard, but the miss of the season and then a truly fucking cretinous thing to get sent off.
Sitting there tonight, we looked in many senses like a club in decline. Vast swathes of empty seats, no atmosphere or spirit in the crowd, the team going through the motions but really not caring either, the manager sat impassively watching the game pass by us, the whole place has a horrible feeling of malaise. For those of you who watched on the telly or on the internet, it is difficult to properly convey just how wretched an experience that was.
I still think changing manager at this point is asking for it, and risking an awful lot, but after watching that, I can not see how it can be any worse than persisting with GH and GM.
We're going to have to take the plunge and get shot. If we don't do it now - right now - we'll lose at Sheffield United, lose to Man City (which we're bound to lose) and get beaten at Blues, so he'll go anyway. Better to do it now.
We need leadership somewhere. There is none at all on the pitch, and none from the bench. It needs to come from the very top.
Desperately, desperately depressing.
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Just got back. Worst I've been to for some time (although I don't get to go to many).
Negatives:
Selection and tactics were awful. Gabby on the wing? No subs until five minutes before the end? No Albrighton in the starting line up? C'mon Houllier, this is Sunderland at home, not away at the champions. 32,000 in the stands knew we needed to see some passion and commitment long before you troubled the fourth official.
One shot on target is all I remember, from Ash. Not good enough against an industrious, if ordinary, Sunderland team.
Collins, Dunne, Cuellar constantly giving the ball away. Again.
Our captain vanishing, along with Downing.
Positives:
Heskey. Missed sitter and red card notwithstanding, he's shown great commitment and desire.
Shiny badge.
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I'm not convinced a sacking in the transfer window will be a good move, unless we've already got free agent Martin Jol lined up and ready.
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The players do not want to play for the manager. That is wrong. It shouldn't be like that, but it quite clearly is, and as a result we are in big, big trouble.
Tonight was the night I realised that, actually, it's not going to get any better under GH, the players aren't going to suddenly find the passion under him, it just will not happen. Sometimes it is a case of wrong manager, wrong club, wrong time, and all three seem to have happened at the same time for us.
We genuinely are getting worse. It wasn't just that we were performing badly today, I couldn't even see what we were trying to do.
Clark looked out of his depth.
Collins just swung his leg at the ball every time he got within 5 yards of it.
Dunne seems unable to jump. How many balls flew past him?
Cuellar, after marauding forward in the first half like a(nother) winger, but then infuriatingly passing it back, went to shit in the second half.
Petrov and Reo-Coker were both absolutely rubbish. One (NRC) clearly doesn't care any more, the other is not good enough.
Gabby - I can't really tell what we were trying to do with him out there, but he might as well have been in the fucking stand.
Ashley - worked hard, but he must be getting dispirited, I'd be off if I were him.
Heskey - worked hard, but the miss of the season and then a truly fucking cretinous thing to get sent off.
Sitting there tonight, we looked in many senses like a club in decline. Vast swathes of empty seats, no atmosphere or spirit in the crowd, the team going through the motions but really not caring either, the manager sat impassively watching the game pass by us, the whole place has a horrible feeling of malaise. For those of you who watched on the telly or on the internet, it is difficult to properly convey just how wretched an experience that was.
I still think changing manager at this point is asking for it, and risking an awful lot, but after watching that, I can not see how it can be any worse than persisting with GH and GM.
We're going to have to take the plunge and get shot. If we don't do it now - right now - we'll lose at Sheffield United, lose to Man City (which we're bound to lose) and get beaten at Blues, so he'll go anyway. Better to do it now.
We need leadership somewhere. There is none at all on the pitch, and none from the bench. It needs to come from the very top.
Desperately, desperately depressing.
Nail on head, Paulie.
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Just got back. As insipid a performance as any I have ever seen from us since the Billy McNeill days. Heskey's ban could spell disaster for us (why aren't we buying players?), as we'll badly miss him against the knuckledraggers. That's another certain defeat if the current manager stays with us. He'll definitely have to go then, but it could be too late. Get rid of him immediately. He's a nice bloke and all that, but he's easily been the worst Villa manager since the aforementioned hapless Scot. A disastrous appointment.
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Everyone just calm down a bit. Everyone is angry and directs it at houllier but sacking him isnt the way forward. If this lot wont play for him, ged needs to get rid and replace them. It looks like im a lone voice but im keeping the faith...
I agree Matt. You are not alone in the wilderness.
i also agree
You lot are mad, you say that if the players don't want to play for the manager then get rid of them and get some new ones. It would be far easier to get a new manager in who the players want to play for and understand.
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After only a few months in the job I see no future for Gerard Houllier. And I say that in the knowledge that he's not had chance to bring his own players in, and that there have been horrendous injury problems as well.
The team was lop-sided tonight, and if a tactical dufus like myself can see that then, boy, are we in the shit. Most of the effective work came through the right side. This was because Gabby on the left wing is not a left-winger! Add to this the fact he put Ashley in the middle, and went one up front.
After Heskey had ruined a great performance by getting sent off and we slipped behind, Houllier throws on two talented, but inexperienced, kids to save the game. Fifteen minutes from time? Ten, maybe? No. These inexperienced kids had three minutes plus stoppage time to save us.
And at the end we had Ashley at centre-half and Dunne, Collins, et al in attack.
I wasn't one of the loons screaming "you'll be sacked in the morning" (a friend of mine had a furious row with someone that did) but I really am struggling to see a positive in all of this.
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What do you expect when the last main signing was Sept 1st 2009 - Richard Dunne? Yes, we nearly fucked up that deal by leaving it until 5.29pm on August 31st! That was some 16 months ago. There will be no major investment again under RL - he hasn't the balls to speak to the fans and state his intentions - he needs to sell to someone who can take us forward. We are in free fall with no sign of turning it round.
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Got back a while ago and read all of this thread.
Gerard Foolier hs to go.
A left winger on the right, a right winger in attack, a striker on the wing and then four centre backs, when we had to chase the game we had two centre backs up top with our winger/attacking midfielder at centre back with a centre forward on the bench. Not one of the central midfielders could get forward enough to support Heskey.
It shows just how dreadfully shit we are that Emile Heskey was our best player.
Foullier HAS TO GO, and be replaced damn quickly, none of this 'fucking about' like we had with Houllier's appointment - the new manager (I would go for Jol) would then need to be backed to the hilt, otherwise we WILL be going to Bristol City, Ipswich, Coventry and Derby next season.
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What do Faulkner and Lerner know about football ? They are not football men and we lack a football man on the board- move houllier into the board room and to oversee scouting etc and bring in martin jol as coach!
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The tosser speaks.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/9331248.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/9331248.stm)
He makes me want to hurl my wife's expensive new Macbook through the window.
"We'll make it, don't worry"
We might if you fuck off you inept ******.
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I also agree the atmos was poor today
too many empty seats -not enough singing
it looks bad for us-"spiritwise"
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Not long back. We should have at least been a couple up at h/t but if you don't take your chances it going to come back and bite you on the arse.
Heskey actually held the ball up really well but no excuse for costing us the game twice, by missing from two yards and not getting sent off. We need a new striker a.s.a.p.
Heskey played well but he has to shoulder a lot of the blame. Hitting the bar when it was harder not to score then putting himself in the situation whereby he might get sent off (even though it looked a harsh decision), he'll now miss 3 games and we have little options in the striker position as it is.
Collins was out muscled a few times by Bent and he was lucky that he scuffed the shot which allowed him to clear it off the line. Strange tactic of keeping faith with cuellar at r/b and Gabby at left wing.
At least we've found our new central defender, step forward Ashley Young.
I wouldn't like to be in Randys shoes.
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Everyone just calm down a bit. Everyone is angry and directs it at houllier but sacking him isnt the way forward. If this lot wont play for him, ged needs to get rid and replace them. It looks like im a lone voice but im keeping the faith...
I agree Matt. You are not alone in the wilderness.
i also agree
You lot are mad, you say that if the players don't want to play for the manager then get rid of them and get some new ones. It would be far easier to get a new manager in who the players want to play for and understand.
Yeah, but you say it like you can sack him on Thursday and appoint the new bloke on Friday.
Remember how long it took last time?
Randy isn't like Mike Ashley - lining up a replacement weeks before he's fucked off his current gaffer.
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Well I have always been thinking we will never go down and Houllier should be given to the end of the season. I don't anymore. Sadly I honestly think we need to make a change and make it soon.
Relegation would be an utter disaster.
Me too.
Houllier had some good ideas but his tactics are increasingly becoming O'dreary mark 2.
Looks like that fantastic twenty minutes against Manure will be the sole highlight of his reign.
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The players do not want to play for the manager. That is wrong. It shouldn't be like that, but it quite clearly is, and as a result we are in big, big trouble.
Tonight was the night I realised that, actually, it's not going to get any better under GH, the players aren't going to suddenly find the passion under him, it just will not happen. Sometimes it is a case of wrong manager, wrong club, wrong time, and all three seem to have happened at the same time for us.
We genuinely are getting worse. It wasn't just that we were performing badly today, I couldn't even see what we were trying to do.
Clark looked out of his depth.
Collins just swung his leg at the ball every time he got within 5 yards of it.
Dunne seems unable to jump. How many balls flew past him?
Cuellar, after marauding forward in the first half like a(nother) winger, but then infuriatingly passing it back, went to shit in the second half.
Petrov and Reo-Coker were both absolutely rubbish. One (NRC) clearly doesn't care any more, the other is not good enough.
Gabby - I can't really tell what we were trying to do with him out there, but he might as well have been in the fucking stand.
Ashley - worked hard, but he must be getting dispirited, I'd be off if I were him.
Heskey - worked hard, but the miss of the season and then a truly fucking cretinous thing to get sent off.
Sitting there tonight, we looked in many senses like a club in decline. Vast swathes of empty seats, no atmosphere or spirit in the crowd, the team going through the motions but really not caring either, the manager sat impassively watching the game pass by us, the whole place has a horrible feeling of malaise. For those of you who watched on the telly or on the internet, it is difficult to properly convey just how wretched an experience that was.
I still think changing manager at this point is asking for it, and risking an awful lot, but after watching that, I can not see how it can be any worse than persisting with GH and GM.
We're going to have to take the plunge and get shot. If we don't do it now - right now - we'll lose at Sheffield United, lose to Man City (which we're bound to lose) and get beaten at Blues, so he'll go anyway. Better to do it now.
We need leadership somewhere. There is none at all on the pitch, and none from the bench. It needs to come from the very top.
Desperately, desperately depressing.
Very difficult to disagree with any of that. I've never been one for knee jerk ' sack the manager' reactions, but maybe sooner rather than later is best for all concerned in this case
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Disgraceful. Great result followed by a shit result. Time and time again it's happened this season.
Have we had enough great results for it to happen time and time again? (Wink)
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The tosser speaks.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/9331248.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/9331248.stm)
He makes me want to hurl my wife's expensive new Macbook through the window.
"We'll make it, don't worry"
We might if you fuck off you inept c***.
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What do Faulkner and Lerner know about football ? They are not football men and we lack a football man on the board- move houllier into the board room and to oversee scouting etc and bring in martin jol as coach!
bit of 'insider' info-my uncle knows one of the scouts at villa
apparantly our scouting network has blossomed under GH after MON left it to wither to 'joke levels'(the villa employee's words)
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Just back and still absolutely fuming at that appalling display. Why play such a defensive line up against Sunderland at home? Why play Gabby out of position wide left? Don't start me on Dunne. Or Downing. Too livid to post anything coherent now. Off to suffer MOTD but with a very nice Islay malt to soften the edges
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Says something when u have young and bannan as your centre backs, Collins and dune as your forwards. Even under Graham Taylor I never saw so much hoof football.
Que up the doors track 'the end' and sent this sorry sight of a manager on his way. I've been in favour of giving him time but this was a disgrace of a match. A total embarrassment to Aston villa football club. Houllier should be ashamed. James Milner aside this is the same group of players who got top 6!!!!!
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Yeah, but you say it like you can sack him on Thursday and appoint the new bloke on Friday.
Remember how long it took last time?
Randy isn't like Mike Ashley - lining up a replacement weeks before he's fucked off his current gaffer.
In all honesty it has been obvious for some weeks that Houllier is floundering around without a clue so I would hope that Randy and his team have been keeping tabs on the Manager employment scene so that when it becomes neccessary to relieve Houllier of his duties they could replace him quickly.
If they have not been doing this then they are very stupid people.
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"I'm disappointed with the result, but am happy with the reaction of the players"
Eh?
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The tosser speaks.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/9331248.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/9331248.stm)
He makes me want to hurl my wife's expensive new Macbook through the window.
"We'll make it, don't worry"
We might if you fuck off you inept c***.
And listening to that load of bo**ocks he clearly has no intention of doing the decent thing and resigning; still he reckons we'll be alright so nothing to worry about is there?
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first time in the bottom 3 for 8 years... EIGHT YEARS
Were we not bottom 3 sometime in 05/06?
We're going to be bottom in two weeks time folks.
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The whole thing was a disgrace. I don't know who to be angry at most - the dreadful manager, clueless players or inept officials. We cannot afford to persist with this arrangement regardless of who is to blame and decisive action needs to be taken straight away. Whether Houllier inherited a bunch of problems or not, the squad have not responded to him whatsoever and certainly never will.
Tonight's performance was shocking and it's clear that the players are completely demotivated. I can't see that there was any plan at all tonight apart from lumping it up to Heskey (who was excellent until he lost his head) although they continued with that approach after he had been sent off. Gabby didn't stand a chance in the air against Bramble and Ferdinand although that didn't seem to deter our brainless defenders.
Houllier failed to change anything. After half time we came out without any urgency. When Heskey went off nobody seemed to know what to do. The formation was clearly not working yet the Manager and his assistants decided that it was better to leave things as they were rather than to bring on some fresh players. Brining Bannan and Albrighton on at 87 minutes was just so fucking brainless, it beggars belief. It makes MON look like some sort of tactical genius. If they had have been on after 60 minutes we may have stood a chance.
I'm just very angry.
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Decent first half I thought, I really felt we should have been at least 1-0 up at half time. They seemed to be playing a bit more like they did against Chelsea. Then half time happened and a different Villa 11 seemed to come onto the pitch. They'd suddenly forgotten how to play, swapped positions willy nilly and started hoofing it around to Dunne up front. Gabby looked disinterested; I couldn't see why Heskey got sent off but he was running the show for us before that incident.
These are very bad times indeed. I agree with many on here that GH has shown no real signs of being able to turn it round but I fully expect Randy to stick with him and, heaven forbid, to not give him any money over January.
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"James Milner aside this is the same group of players who got top 6!!!!!"
My God ,do we miss Milner
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I'm a bit emotional, gutted, angry and down right now so I reserve the right to change this in the morning:
Far better in the first half.
Heskey and Reo-Coker at least gave it a go. Heskey was great until he swung out and got sent off. Idiot.
How Downing was not substituted I'll never know.
The subs came on far too late and then to see Young (A.) and Bannan/Albrighton(?) playing at CB for the last few minutes made me lose the plot somewhat so I apologise to all those around me for my vitriolic outburst.
Gabby should have been swapped with Young as it was obviously not working.
As for Houllier, my head says give him time but my heart is sinking fast.
I'm off to hit the bottle. Or the cat.
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The tosser speaks.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/9331248.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/9331248.stm)
He makes me want to hurl my wife's expensive new Macbook through the window.
"We'll make it, don't worry"
We might if you fuck off you inept c***.
I can't even be bothered to listen to what he has to say, although I can guess.
Words, platitudes and bollocks!!!!!
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Just seen houlliers interview on sky sports news. The guy is smiling. Doesn't seem fazed at all. Not sure if I'm shocked or scared!, first time in 7 years we've dropped into the bottom 3.
Is the guy that confident he won't be getting a bollocking from up stairs he can just dismiss a performance like that????????!!!!!
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It mirrors Paulie's point, but, in short, these players do not want to play for this manager. As highly paid professionals this should not be the case. They should be made to play. But unlike any other job, players have way to much sway and ultimately will decide whether the club does well or not. I think they are simply going through the motions as opposed to running through walls under the previous manager. That is the difference.
It is a bad state of affairs. But I never wanted Houllier in the first place. I think he has changed too many things too quickly in an almost arrogant fashion and it has backfired. He has to go now. I cannot see us getting another point in January. The transfer window makes no difference if we are as is being reported only in the market for Spuds kids. So let's get rid now. If they cannot get Jol in now (not sure why that would be the case) go for a Southgate type character until the end of the season to try and keep us afloat. In summary, as it stands tonight I literally cannot see where we can get another 19 points (minimum) from 17 games - with three against the top 3.
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After the red card he played for a scoreless draw, hence the lack of subs. But Albrighton for one of the lacklustre Downing, Gabby or Young would have given us a fresh outlet. Was he too afraid to bring off one of the big players? Wouldn't be surprised. I was calling for changes 10 mins before Heskey got himself sent off - seriously, it was like MON without the backbone.
No confidence or conviction going forward, Young always going on the outside before over-hitting a cross or playing for a free. And this Sunderland side were bog standard.
Creatively void without the nippers - not Houllier's fault but his training regime has not made these players improve their passing, vision and movement which we badly missed with O'Neill. Overhauling/implementing a scouting system aside we seem to have regressed in every other way. It may be only four months but give him another four months, and going by his recent record, he will take us down.
Best post on this thread.
The whole game and whole situation in a nutshell.
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Not time to sack Houllier,we need stability,he got landed with an ageing squad who were MON'S favourite 11.Time to sign Wheater and Samba and get rid of 150 year old Friedel..surely the gaffer has a decent french keeper in mind.We need an out an out poacher who will lead the line..someone like Bellamy and a midfielder who has a couple of gears in him,not like our couple of Morris Minors[petrov,coker,downing].
No more signing like Pires,his playing days in top flight football are over.
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Just seen houlliers interview on sky sports news. The guy is smiling. Doesn't seem fazed at all. Not sure if I'm shocked or scared!, first time in 7 years we've dropped into the bottom 3.
Is the guy that confident he won't be getting a bollocking from up stairs he can just dismiss a performance like that????????!!!!!
Upstairs are clueless. Thats part of the problem. No leadership at the top, just a philanthropic mute american soccer fan, his YTS trainee and an army General who disappears from message boards when the going gets tough.
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What was it he said in his first press conference after he took thejob...'Aston Villa are a club that in my view traditionally finished between 7th and 12th'...sounds like heaven now!
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Yeah, but you say it like you can sack him on Thursday and appoint the new bloke on Friday.
Remember how long it took last time?
Randy isn't like Mike Ashley - lining up a replacement weeks before he's fucked off his current gaffer.
In all honesty it has been obvious for some weeks that Houllier is floundering around without a clue so I would hope that Randy and his team have been keeping tabs on the Manager employment scene so that when it becomes neccessary to relieve Houllier of his duties they could replace him quickly.
If they have not been doing this then they are very stupid people.
I agree with you mate, to an extent, but what I'm saying is they won't have tapped up a currently employed manager. Out of honour, decency or whatever.
So that leaves us with Big Sam, Jol and......?
And even then, its giving a new man 3 weeks to assess the squad, identify weaknesses and broker transfers.
Not saying its the wrong thing to sack Houllier at all, but you need to a reasoned judgement after all things are considered.
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We are actually going down.
That was just as bad as Man City/Liverpool 'performances.'
I am shocked how bad he has made us. Can he PLEASE just leave. I don't want the guy to make transfers, I have no confidence in the man in anything he does.
HOULLIER PLEASE LEAVE.
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Just seen houlliers interview on sky sports news. The guy is smiling. Doesn't seem fazed at all. Not sure if I'm shocked or scared!, first time in 7 years we've dropped into the bottom 3.
Is the guy that confident he won't be getting a bollocking from up stairs he can just dismiss a performance like that????????!!!!!
It's the casual way he accepts that we're in a relegation fight that boils my piss. Well teams like Wigan and West Ham are used to scrapping for every point at the end of the season, while our players are used to a gradual wind down as our challenge for 4th spot fades away. We're not set up for a relegation scrap. Our defence is hopeless, we don't score enough goals, our manager is clueless and our owner appears to have chucked in the towel.
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Just seen houlliers interview on sky sports news. The guy is smiling. Doesn't seem fazed at all. Not sure if I'm shocked or scared!, first time in 7 years we've dropped into the bottom 3.
Is the guy that confident he won't be getting a bollocking from up stairs he can just dismiss a performance like that????????!!!!!
Upstairs are clueless. Thats part of the problem. No leadership at the top, just a philanthropic mute american soccer fan, his YTS trainee and an army General who disappears from message boards when the going gets tough.
His YTS trainee, that made me laugh out loud literally.
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Just seen houlliers interview on sky sports news. The guy is smiling. Doesn't seem fazed at all. Not sure if I'm shocked or scared!, first time in 7 years we've dropped into the bottom 3.
Is the guy that confident he won't be getting a bollocking from up stairs he can just dismiss a performance like that????????!!!!!
Upstairs are clueless. Thats part of the problem. No leadership at the top, just a philanthropic mute american soccer fan, his YTS trainee and an army General who disappears from message boards when the going gets tough.
His YTS trainee, that made me laugh out loud literally.
It was exceptionally naughty and harsh on PF, I think, but I must admit, it's the first time I've laughed since the end of the match.
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What was it he said in his first press conference after he took thejob...'Aston Villa are a club that in my view traditionally finished between 7th and 12th'...sounds like heaven now!
Said a lot at the time.
Very ironic now as we look at the table too.
Have a word in the morning Randy, if not before.
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FWIW i don't think it lack of effort that's the problem. I saw players trying, perhaps too hard in some cases (Young trying to make things happen all over the pitch). The problem is positions players are being asked to play. Gabby is one of the quickest players in the league and thrives on space to run into yet he is played in a congested midfield area that nullifies his threat. If we are ging to survive then we need to play to our strengths and only Houllier can make that happen.
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Just seen houlliers interview on sky sports news. The guy is smiling. Doesn't seem fazed at all. Not sure if I'm shocked or scared!, first time in 7 years we've dropped into the bottom 3.
Is the guy that confident he won't be getting a bollocking from up stairs he can just dismiss a performance like that????????!!!!!
Upstairs are clueless. Thats part of the problem. No leadership at the top, just a philanthropic mute american soccer fan, his YTS trainee and an army General who disappears from message boards when the going gets tough.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a177/schwartzo/blakckid.gif)
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Paulie's comment about us being in decline struck a raw nerve with me.... Where are we going? Five year plan? What five year plan/?This is a mess.
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I'm going to bed and will post tomorrow when i've calmed down and had chance to thinkmmy comments through.
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Looking on the bright side, I bagged a free badge.
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Paulie's comment about us being in decline struck a raw nerve with me.... Where are we going? Five year plan? What five year plan/?This is a mess.
Again, the five year plan is a myth.
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"I'm disappointed with the result, but am happy with the reaction of the players"
Eh?
Just pathetic!
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Paulie's comment about us being in decline struck a raw nerve with me.... Where are we going? Five year plan? What five year plan/?This is a mess.
Calling Dave Woodhall to the 5 year plan myth thread, calling Dave Woodhall. Bing Bong.
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Two shots on target. In the relegation zone. Houllier out.
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Have not read the other messages, but feel the need to get this off my chest.
Just got back home after what was an absolute dismal display. A couple of things are puzzeling me:
1. Who on earth convinced Ashley Young (and this manager & previous), that he is a good player "in the hole"? The best English left winger in the coutry has now been wasting his time for the club in the last 12 months!
2. Why on earth play Gabby left midfield in a 5 at home to Sunderland? The bloke has no left foot and is ineffective defensively, wasted out wide!
GH I'm afraid has come up short, and though I hate to say it, if he stays I see nothing but relegation on the horizon. This was a horrible dispaly of ineptitude by the Manager. 3 minutes left and playing A Young & Bannanan as Centre halves/sweepers was disgraceful..... the subs should have been made before the sending off ..... cack!
Anyway, if the bloke has not gone by the morning I will still travel to Sheffield and support the team, though to be honest my faith in him has now gone ..... VTID ........ fuck off Houllier!
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Anyone want a crappy Facebook badge bearing a 2011-12 Championship club logo?
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5 year plan???? We're back to year 1, no different to when DOL left despite what has happened since.
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HOOOOOOOOOOOOOFFFFFFFFF!!! I thought MON left in August?
Or maybe that was a Houllier impression of a MON performance. The players deserve some of the blame - Petrov, Gabby, Downing were all awful, and the distribution from Collins and Dunne was, as ever, atrocious. Heskey was excellent (his sending off and fuck up for the goal aside).
THe manager also deserves some of the blame - no changes when it clearly wasn't working (it was crying out for Bannan and Albrighton, even at half time). Also why use the same tactics as the away game from Sunday - we're at home you know.
Also Lerner and MON deserve some of the blame more generally, for letting the team get to the state where we have no decent technical senior midfielders who can thread passes and let play flow.
Its just depressing now, I still can't see Villa getting relegated this year, but something needs to change or improve very quickly.
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It really was depressing tonight. The atmosphere was heavy with defeatism. It would be a MASSIVE gamble for Lerner to stick with Houllier right at the moment and one that might very well result in us going down. Can't believe I've typed that but that's the way it most certainly feels.
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Paulie's comment about us being in decline struck a raw nerve with me.... Where are we going? Five year plan? What five year plan/?This is a mess.
Again, the five year plan is a myth.
apologies, have a few drinks in me.
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Upstairs are clueless. Thats part of the problem. No leadership at the top, just a philanthropic mute american soccer fan, his YTS trainee and an army General who disappears from message boards when the going gets tough.
Bloody hell Adam, that's a bit harsh!
We whinged for years at an interfering chairman, now you're having a go at one who leaves his manager to his own devices.
Accuse the board of making a poor appointment, but the performance of the playing staff is the responsibilty of the manager alone.
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Paulie's comment about us being in decline struck a raw nerve with me.... Where are we going? Five year plan? What five year plan/?This is a mess.
Calling Dave Woodhall to the 5 year plan myth thread, calling Dave Woodhall. Bing Bong.
See my previous post.
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Paulie's comment about us being in decline struck a raw nerve with me.... Where are we going? Five year plan? What five year plan/?This is a mess.
Again, the five year plan is a myth.
apologies, have a few drinks in me.
Will do.
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Upstairs are clueless. Thats part of the problem. No leadership at the top, just a philanthropic mute american soccer fan, his YTS trainee and an army General who disappears from message boards when the going gets tough.
I'm rapidly reaching the same conclusion.
Whatever is now said about MON, the relative success he brought meant that the credentials of the new regime in the boardroom were never really questioned.
I've repeated this previously, but I always said the time to judge Randy as an owner was after he'd had to make a managerial appointment and/or the club had a rough patch. So far that judgement is not good.
I also said at the time that Krulak announced that he wasn't any longer going to communicate on fans' sites, that having done so in the good times, bowing out now was not good PR.
At present it is not hard to reach the conclusion that we are rudderless both on and off the pitch.
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The General mentioned a five year plan lots of times. But anyhow, even if it doesn't exist surely the intention wasn't to be in the bottom three in the fifth year, formal plan or not.
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Sitting there tonight, we looked in many senses like a club in decline. Vast swathes of empty seats, no atmosphere or spirit in the crowd, the team going through the motions but really not caring either, the manager sat impassively watching the game pass by us, the whole place has a horrible feeling of malaise. For those of you who watched on the telly or on the internet, it is difficult to properly convey just how wretched an experience that was.
It was like we'd been transported back in a time machine to the decaying days of 05/06. Things got better then, they had to as another year of Ellis and O'dreary and we'd have been relegated then.
Is it fear to say Houllier is the French Venglos?
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I am seriously hurting. But to get rid of Houllier now would be suicide. By the time he was replaced we would of lost another window. And who is to say the players would want to play for him ?? We have got to buy quality. And quickly. This is now about serious funding ................
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I don't even know where to start with that.
I'm losing patience with Houllier but it's clear there are players who aren't good enough.
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I can take rubbish performances and individual players playing crap, but that is not what happened tonight. Individual players did not play badly as such, some such as Downing were totally ineffective because they were never given service.
1) The team was set up firstly to try and avoid defeat.
2) Gabby was played wide and Ashley Young in the middle, it was obvious after 20 minutes this was not working but we persisted with it. Indeed our first shot on target was in the 2nd half when for the first and about only time Ashley found himself wide with the ball.
3) When Heskey was sent off, nothing was done apart from Gabby being forced by circumstance into the middle. No fresh legs to assist with the fact it was 10 against 11.
4) Again nothing was done when Sunderland scored. We eventually made substitutions far far too late in a desperate attempt to save the game. We finished up with a formation with Ashley Young at right back and Richard Dunne at centre forward !
Tonights game was not lost by the players on the pitch , it was lost by decisions (or rather lack of them) off the pitch.
We are now in the relegation zone and we have to find a way out of it. I believe the existing players have enough ability to get the necessary wins and points to survive. However without organisation this will not happen. On tonights evidence Houllier is incapable of doing this and should be sacked immediately or I am afraid next season we are condemned to playing at the likes of Doncaster or Swansea.
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I thought young was quite selfish today. And I'm one of his biggest fans. Don't want the guy to go anywhere. A couple of times in the second half he could of made some runs on the overlap but instead chose to stay inside cuz he wanted to be the goal scorer. Gabby has been moved out wide to accommadate young playing more central and it's not working. Young needs to play for the team not himself.
There was so much arguing and people kicking off with each other in the upper holte and that made me more mad than anything else. I don't want to see villa fans kicking off with each other. And houllier has created this atmosphere and I hate him for it!!!
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Upstairs are clueless. Thats part of the problem. No leadership at the top, just a philanthropic mute american soccer fan, his YTS trainee and an army General who disappears from message boards when the going gets tough.
Bloody hell Adam, that's a bit harsh!
We whinged for years at an interfering chairman, now you're having a go at one who leaves his manager to his own devices.
Accuse the board of making a poor appointment, but the performance of the playing staff is the responsibilty of the manager alone.
In all fairness though... there are certain times when you want the owner to keep his mouth shut and not interfere but there are also times were you want to see strong leadership from the owner.
There is nothing coming out from the top, we need to know what on earth is going on, just something.
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By the way, anyone who thinks there is tons of cash to spend this month need to look at that lot potentially bringing in Keane ahead of us for £7m. Coz like it or not, he would be exactly the sort of signing we need right now.
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Tonight was so so poor and so very predictable after the Heskey miss.
GH has to go now. He has the players back and we get worse not better. A point against a poor Chelsea and were suddenly back on track. Well if we had beat sunderland playing well then maybe but Houllier your kidding none of the Villa fans.
We cant stop conceding goals, we cant score but even more concerning is we are not creating chances how many times tonight did players have the opportunity to shoot but would rather pass. Those traits just suggest relegation.
Against Spurs and Sunderland half time teamtalks chance to make a difference what has houllier done - fuck all we have got worse!!!
He plays a quality winger upfront and a striker on the wing. Downing amazingly remains on the pitch week in week out despite making no effort and going missing when the chips are down.
Players are clearly not confident with his ideas but there is no sign of him making a difference!!
He has led us into the relgation zone for the first time in 8 years and we are most likely to lose to our dearest rivals again in 10 days time. Please randy general stop tis now and sack this fraud now.
We are not in france or continetnal europe playing pretty passing football. We need desire passion guts and players who are willing to die for the shirt to get us out of this mess. Gerrard Houllier cannot lead this- please sack him now
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In all fairness though... there are certain times when you want the owner to keep his mouth shut and not interfere but there are also times were you want to see strong leadership from the owner.
I think that's a fair point.
As I said, we desperately, desperately need some leadership at the club - there's none on the pitch, there's nothing at all from the bench.
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I am seriously hurting. But to get rid of Houllier now would be suicide. By the time he was replaced we would of lost another window. And who is to say the players would want to play for him ?? We have got to buy quality. And quickly. This is now about serious funding ................
Its about sacking our inept unfit manager. Hopefully he is on a plane back to France now, and he can throw Gary Macallister out on the the way the useless fuck.
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I say get Gerard to work with the board and be football director and improve the club and leave the management to someone else maybe Martin Jol.
Imagine the combined knowledge of players and football if they work together.
I think that is the best solution.
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Tonights game was not lost by the players on the pitch , it was lost by decisions (or rather lack of them) off the pitch.
In a nutshell.
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And why the hell can't brad friedel distribute the frigging football properly when he kicks the fookin football!!!!
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I say get Gerard to work with the board and be football director and improve the club and leave the management to someone else maybe Martin Jol.
Imagine the combined knowledge of players and football if they work together.
I think that is the best solution.
I know where you're coming from, but a new Manager will want to do it himself.
In effect Houllier as Director of Football and they never work.
HE must go even if it means work unfinished I'm afraid.
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Just seen the sending off, fukin stupid by Heskey.
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Upstairs are clueless. Thats part of the problem. No leadership at the top, just a philanthropic mute american soccer fan, his YTS trainee and an army General who disappears from message boards when the going gets tough.
Bloody hell Adam, that's a bit harsh!
We whinged for years at an interfering chairman, now you're having a go at one who leaves his manager to his own devices.
Accuse the board of making a poor appointment, but the performance of the playing staff is the responsibilty of the manager alone.
In all fairness though... there are certain times when you want the owner to keep his mouth shut and not interfere but there are also times were you want to see strong leadership from the owner.
There is nothing coming out from the top, we need to know what on earth is going on, just something.
You're right of course.
However, I have faith that Randy will act appropriately and as necessary. It's just his way not to hog the limelight when doing it, that doesn't make his leadership 'weak' at all. I'm sure the message will come across loud and clear to those on the receiving end.
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2 attempts on target at home.
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On the bright side.
a quid on first goal being 80-90 minutes paid me 21 quid.
Bit of an anxious moment, though, clock showed 79 as it went in, but credited at 80, so they've paid out.
*thumbs up*
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Right. I'm off to play some call of duty. Work off some of this anger!!
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Just seen the sending off, fukin stupid by Heskey.
Stupid, yes. But I'll agree with Hansen by saying it looked as though he was clobbered in the challenge.
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I am seriously hurting. But to get rid of Houllier now would be suicide. By the time he was replaced we would of lost another window. And who is to say the players would want to play for him ?? We have got to buy quality. And quickly. This is now about serious funding ................
Its about sacking our inept unfit manager. Hopefully he is on a plane back to France now, and he can throw Gary Macallister out on the the way the useless fuck.
Not protecting him. But he was manager against Man utd, Wolves and Chelsea. If we stay with these players we are gonna go down. Three quality players in and we can still survive. Changing him and with no window and its a dead cert ..........
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I say get Gerard to work with the board and be football director and improve the club and leave the management to someone else maybe Martin Jol.
Imagine the combined knowledge of players and football if they work together.
I think that is the best solution.
I know where you're coming from, but a new Manager will want to do it himself.
In effect Houllier as Director of Football and they never work.
HE must go even if it means work unfinished I'm afraid.
If there's one manager with good reason not to ever want to work with a DoF again, it'll be Jol.
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Just seen the sending off, fukin stupid by Heskey.
Stupid, yes. But I'll agree with Hansen by saying it looked as though he was clobbered in the challenge.
He was - they were getting pissed off because we wouldn't put the ball out when one of their forwards was down injured.
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Bardsley is a mediocre player, he showed that at us.
The fact he slots in a 25 yard winner against us takes the piss big time.
i can't believe we played Gabby on the left to nulify his runs.
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70 minutes with a left winger on the right, a striker on the left, and a winger up front.
15 minutes of 10 men behind the ball.
5 minutes of two centre backs up front, a left winger and central midfielder at the back.
It was horrible to watch, heartbreakingly bad at times.
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I am seriously hurting. But to get rid of Houllier now would be suicide. By the time he was replaced we would of lost another window. And who is to say the players would want to play for him ?? We have got to buy quality. And quickly. This is now about serious funding ................
Its about sacking our inept unfit manager. Hopefully he is on a plane back to France now, and he can throw Gary Macallister out on the the way the useless fuck.
Not protecting him. But he was manager against Man utd, Wolves and Chelsea. If we stay with these players we are gonna go down. Three quality players in and we can still survive. Changing him and with no window and its a dead cert ..........
Ahh 3 quality players, they will be queuing up tonight to sign for us. Oh and we got a pay freeze so that counts nearly every player. We need a manager, we got a clown at the moment.
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e
I am seriously hurting. But to get rid of Houllier now would be suicide. By the time he was replaced we would of lost another window. And who is to say the players would want to play for him ?? We have got to buy quality. And quickly. This is now about serious funding ................
Its about sacking our inept unfit manager. Hopefully he is on a plane back to France now, and he can throw Gary Macallister out on the the way the useless fuck.
Not protecting him. But he was manager against Man utd, Wolves and Chelsea. If we stay with these players we are gonna go down. Three quality players in and we can still survive. Changing him and with no window and its a dead cert ..........
Ahh 3 quality players, they will be queuing up tonight to sign for us. Oh and we got a pay freeze so that counts nearly every player. We need a manager, we got a clown at the moment.
Believe it or not but Houllier is highly respected in europe (mainly France) and can still attract some big names. It can still be done ....
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Just seen the sending off, fukin stupid by Heskey.
Stupid, yes. But I'll agree with Hansen by saying it looked as though he was clobbered in the challenge.
He was - they were getting pissed off because we wouldn't put the ball out when one of their forwards was down injured.
Why should we put the ball out though ? Its up to the ref to stop the game - not us.
They were pissing me off - rolling round half dead and then recovering like Lazarus to sprint on to a ball 10 seconds later
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eI am seriously hurting. But to get rid of Houllier now would be suicide. By the time he was replaced we would of lost another window. And who is to say the players would want to play for him ?? We have got to buy quality. And quickly. This is now about serious funding ................
Its about sacking our inept unfit manager. Hopefully he is on a plane back to France now, and he can throw Gary Macallister out on the the way the useless fuck.
Not protecting him. But he was manager against Man utd, Wolves and Chelsea. If we stay with these players we are gonna go down. Three quality players in and we can still survive. Changing him and with no window and its a dead cert ..........
Ahh 3 quality players, they will be queuing up tonight to sign for us. Oh and we got a pay freeze so that counts nearly every player. We need a manager, we got a clown at the moment.
Believe it or not but Houllier is highly respected in europe (mainly France) and can still attract some big names. It can still be done ....
Maybe but he aint respected by most of our current squad and that what counts.
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Bardsley of all people.
Gabby left, Ashley centre Why?
Heskey sent off. Why no changes straight away?
Gutted.
P.S. The Drum and Monkey at Ipswich was always a favourite boozer of mine. Just saying like.
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eI am seriously hurting. But to get rid of Houllier now would be suicide. By the time he was replaced we would of lost another window. And who is to say the players would want to play for him ?? We have got to buy quality. And quickly. This is now about serious funding ................
Its about sacking our inept unfit manager. Hopefully he is on a plane back to France now, and he can throw Gary Macallister out on the the way the useless fuck.
Not protecting him. But he was manager against Man utd, Wolves and Chelsea. If we stay with these players we are gonna go down. Three quality players in and we can still survive. Changing him and with no window and its a dead cert ..........
Ahh 3 quality players, they will be queuing up tonight to sign for us. Oh and we got a pay freeze so that counts nearly every player. We need a manager, we got a clown at the moment.
Believe it or not but Houllier is highly respected in europe (mainly France) and can still attract some big names. It can still be done ....
Maybe but he aint respected by most of our current squad and that what counts.
Lets just hope whatever happens there is brighter times ahead. We all love our club and right now i am very worried ........
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I wonder which player is on the rota for tomorrow morning's Pravda "we'll show fighting spirit and get out of trouble" bollocks.
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FWIW i don't think it lack of effort that's the problem. I saw players trying, perhaps too hard in some cases (Young trying to make things happen all over the pitch). The problem is positions players are being asked to play. Gabby is one of the quickest players in the league and thrives on space to run into yet he is played in a congested midfield area that nullifies his threat. If we are ging to survive then we need to play to our strengths and only Houllier can make that happen.
Yes, and playing our best two CB at FB, which makes no sense to me. We need two decent FB and quick!
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Kyle Walker (In answer to Risso's question).
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They were pissing me off - rolling round half dead and then recovering like Lazarus to sprint on to a ball 10 seconds later
Correct; cheating bastards, TBH. The ref should have got a grip on the "simulation" way earlier.
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Bug decisions have to be made. Either:
Admit a mistake was made. Replace GH quickliy and hope the new guy brings in a couple of signings and seven wins
Or
Stand by the decision that GH is the man for Villa and hasn't had enough of an opportunity to put his stamp on the squad. Back him with the cash he needs to bring him who he wants and leave no excuses.
Really unsure what is best don't envy Randy at all.
By the way the game was crap!
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I wonder which player is on the rota for tomorrow morning's Pravda "we'll show fighting spirit and get out of trouble" bollocks.
Will not be Pires. He is on a mission to sink Houllier !!!
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I still can't get warm. My polo shirt had ridden up underneath and exposed my back. There was a terrible draft and it's aggravated a patch of eczema that has developed strangely above my bum crack.
And the football was shit too.
I was actually overdressed, at one point I removed my hat, scarf and coat. Soon put them back on though.
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I still can't get warm. My polo shirt had ridden up underneath and exposed my back. There was a terrible draft and it's aggravated a patch of eczema that has developed strangely above my bum crack.
And the football was shit too.
I was actually overdressed, at one point I removed my hat, scarf and coat. Soon put them back on though.
I took my hat, scarf and gloves.
The hat came off relatively quickly, the gloves stayed in the pocket all night, and the scarf came off and was used to bury my face in on and off for 90 minutes, trying to make the grim vision of decline in front of my eyes go away.
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why oh why have we become so bad???i,m damwell speechless,WTF was that new back 3 of Downing Ash n Bannan all about??and constant hoofball to Dunne &Collins??
Villa fans arguing with each other in Upper Holte,combined with anti and pro Houllier chants --not a good sign,
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And with that, I think I'll leave the rest of you to discuss the merits of Gypsum Fantastics cock in the cold.
I'm off to watch the cricket. G'night all.
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It's funny was shitting myself about this game since Sunday.Worked a night Tuesday feeling physically sick after Tues results.Went to bed Wed having crazy dreams about us winning 3-2 and than am surprisingly calm at the game albeit after a few drinks.Terrible atmosphere at the game and depressing hearing Sunderland fans singing going down.Happy New Year
PS We were shit
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I'm still on the train going home. Won't get there until nearly half 1. Still, it was worth the trip eh?
I think it was the lack of substitutions that got me. Heskey was the only player who looked up for it. So when he was sent off I knew we were f*cked.
Are they going to reduce the season tickets when we go down?
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No because they'll say there's more games in the season in the championship
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In the 2 games against Sunderland this season, Emile has missed 2 open goals and got sent off, thats pretty good going
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Heskey held the ball up well but no matter how good the hold up play, you just can't rely on a striker who only averages 5 goals a season.
Gabby has played well as the hold up striker in the past, we desperately need him to get scoring in the league. Dosen't even bare thinking about if he gets injured again.
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Gabby looks a shadow of himslef though. We need a striker, maybe 2. And 2 midfielders central. The rest can wait.
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What I can't understand is tonight was a massive, massive game and Houllier got it so wrong. What was he thinking? Maybe if Heskey had scored instead of hitting the crossbar we'd be discussing a comfortable home win on the back of a decent point at Chelsea with everybody confident and looking forward to the trip to Sheffield.
Instead, confidence is shattered and we're self imploding. Which ever way you look at it, it ain't pretty and there's no easy solution.
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I dont think I have ever seen Heskey play so well at home, he looked lively and committed, right up to the point he dropped us in the shit. That a player with that much experience should be sent off for something so daft is ridiculous, brains of a rocking horse.
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What I can't understand is tonight was a massive, massive game and Houllier got it so wrong. What was he thinking? Maybe if Heskey had scored instead of hitting the crossbar we'd be discussing a comfortable home win on the back of a decent point at Chelsea with everybody confident and looking forward to the trip to Sheffield.
Instead, confidence is shattered and we're self imploding. Which ever way you look at it, it ain't pretty and there's no easy solution.
The margins are so fine.FA3 now seems almost insignificant Bloody nightmare GH said in press conference "if we had won they would have been singing my name Doh! but you didn't !!!!!!!
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I was most definitely one of those who was pleased with the initial appointment of Houllier but frustrated that the first half of the season was ravaged by injuries to players. I have continuously said give him more time to allow him to inbed a more continental style of play and get everyone back.
However, having been at the game tonight. He has to go. He played four centre backs at home against a weakened Sunderland team and two defensive midfielders. On top of that, he played a striker on the left wing (at least play him on the right if you have to stick him there, especially given that downing is useless on the right) downing on the right when he quite obviously isnt comfortable there and young up front. I thought the ashley experiment up top might work but not at the expense of the balance of the team and not when he plays out and out up front. He no longer roams the park going from wing to wing to avoid being double marked and allow him the licence to whip in crosses from either flank. Instead he is stuck up front doing sweet fa. The two in the middle were devoid of ideas and Stan was so far off the pace it was almost funny...if not so scary. I just pray he was unfit/injured.
Admittedly, Heskey cost us the game; he scores we get at least a point, he doesnt get sent off, we probably still get a point but he was the only player who looked like he wanted. He moved off the ball well, held it up and ran the ragged. The rest of the team, while they worked hard enough looked unbalanced and disorganised. They ambled around the pitch, rather than moving in quick, short bursts in an effort to free up space. We looked as if we couldn't pass the ball to save our life.
However, the worst bit of it all was our supposedly tactically astute manager sat by and watched a second half performance which was one of the worst I have ever seen. He had bannan and albrighton warming up from around 55 and yet didnt bring them on when their energy could have provided the spark we needed. Im completely against playing just kids but they have showed they are good enough and a smattering of them could be the invigoration we need; they certainly looked livelier when they eventually came on in the 87th minute. Still more depressing was Houllier's tactic on how to break a team down. Put your best attacking player at full back, your big burly defenders up top and shell it to them. This is not English rugby, this is the Villa and it had the tactical imagination of a battering ram only with the strength of a wet fart.
I'm afraid Mr Houllier, this fan has ran out of patience, you should stick to roles behind the scenes, you simply aren't cut out for being a manager any more and the Villa players would seem to agree with me on that.
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Both games against Sunderland have been robberies.I know we didnt look like scoring a hat full of goals in either but we should not have lost both of them.Redistribute the six points and hey presto we are both level on 27 points.
Fine line between success and failure at this level , perhaps a sports psychologist could help sort out where the success mindedness has gone this year, or a nutritionist to discover the bottom of RD's eating disorder?
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We need a person who's job is listed under "how to stop a football team from conceding in the last 10 minutes all the time".
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What do Faulkner and Lerner know about football ? They are not football men and we lack a football man on the board- move houllier into the board room and to oversee scouting etc and bring in martin jol as coach!
bit of 'insider' info-my uncle knows one of the scouts at villa
apparantly our scouting network has blossomed under GH after MON left it to wither to 'joke levels'(the villa employee's words)
Great. The scouting's good but the team's a joke. I think I preferred it when it was the other way round.
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Both games against Sunderland have been robberies.I know we didnt look like scoring a hat full of goals in either but we should not have lost both of them.Redistribute the six points and hey presto we are both level on 27 points.
A little sense in a mass of hysteria.
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"I'm disappointed with the result, but am happy with the reaction of the players"
Eh?
Makes perfect sense. They bought him a nice 'Sorry You're Leaving' card and had a generous whip round for him.
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You have to agree with him when he said "if we had won they would be singing my name"
Because most of the fans would of done but that don't mean he is the man for the job. it's things like last night with the subs so late on, gabby on left ??? Downing on right??? Young up top??? That pisses everyone off if we had won great but last night showed us when we get into that position we were in with 10 men.. He hasnt got a fucking clue so pack your garlic and fuck off and take jar jar binks with you
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I can understand the anger but disagree with who it should be directed at. Every team even those expected to struggle strengthened their squads in the summer we, thanks to a king size prick, were unable too. At the end of last season it was clear midfield needed strengthening, Petrov is finished and Rio is a tryer but not very good. We have two key forwards that are too old and injured or can't be bothered. Without the injuries we would have still struggled this season even with the God that is MON, he new that when the purse strings were tightened we were in for a fight. For the first time i will criticise Lerner, you don't push peoples buttons when you are at your most vunerable. There is a way out but it means Randy spending big in the short term not the long, if there are quality players out there that we can get he must get them, the cost will be far less than demotion.
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The most inept home performance since the season of GT 2 at home to Southampton, we also lost that 1-0.
No leadership on the field, poor tactics, inept possession and passing, a team low on morale who seemingly do not want to play for the manager.
Spineless and gutless which was highlighted by the fact that most of the players didn't seem to want the ball.
I've backed Houllier till now, but Randy will have to hold his hands up and admit he backed the wrong horse, if he persists with him, we're doomed.
Don't worry about the transfer window as the club are not willing to spend much anyway.
The whole club looks a shambles at the moment.
'Proud history, bright future' is up there with 'we're all in this together' In other words, it's a complete load of bollocks.
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I can understand the anger but disagree with who it should be directed at. Every team even those expected to struggle strengthened their squads in the summer we, thanks to a king size prick, were unable too.
How long can we keep blaming O'Neill?
It's the same squad bar Milner, with the bonus of a resurgent Heskey.
The lack lustre performances, strange selections and inept tactics are down to Houllier and his woefully under qualified sidekick McAllister.
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And if Gabby is a winger, them i'm Brad Pitt.
Which I ain't.
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70 minutes with a left winger on the right, a striker on the left, and a winger up front.
15 minutes of 10 men behind the ball.
5 minutes of two centre backs up front, a left winger and central midfielder at the back.
It was horrible to watch, heartbreakingly bad at times.
Most worrying is that Villa actually looked better with Bannan at Centre-Half and Dunne as a striker.
I can understand playing Gabby wide if you're going to concentrate attacks down the other wing and instruct him to run to the back post at every opportunity.
However, last night, it appeared like Gabby was under strict orders to stay on the wing and worry more about covering Clark than about supporting Emile.
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I agree Rip.
We have also benefitted immensely from some really top class youngsters (thanks Kevin et al) a couple who are now attractive transfers for most clubs in the prem. He can't simply blame injuries.
This is a 'man magement' and training ground/tactics problem. Send them both packing.
We can't defend, can't create and the players looked lost, confused and dispirited. Same as us.
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I can understand the anger but disagree with who it should be directed at. Every team even those expected to struggle strengthened their squads in the summer we, thanks to a king size prick, were unable too.
How long can we keep blaming O'Neill?
It's the same squad bar Milner, with the bonus of a resurgent Heskey.
The lack lustre performances, strange selections and inept tactics are down to Houllier and his woefully under qualified sidekick McAllister.
Holy Mc Grath, I would have thought the rapid decline since MON's departure would mean that those who wanted him sacked last Summer would have so much egg on their faces they wouldn't even want to go there - apparently not.
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Our midfield is useless no matter who the manager, last season we were being overrun, We need a major overhaul in the summer, there are a lot of players that need replacing. Under MON most of them were guaranteed a game no matter how badly they were playing, some of them are now spitting the dummy.
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The most depressing sight of the night was our most creative player taking free kicks in his own half in the last 10 minutes. It smacked of a desperate group of players with no discipline, organisation or leadership.
I think there is as much danger in getting rid as keeping him in terms of whether we can survive this season.
What was clear for those who were there is that those players are not playing to save the manager and the malaise that was apparent from the start of the game soon spread to the fans and made for a pretty ugly atmosphere towards the end.
It doesn't feel like 86-87 as there was an inevitablity about that. This feels like a club that thinks it's in the middle of a temporary blip and is talking long term planning when it desperately needs short term fixes.
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Our midfield is useless no matter who the manager, last season we were being overrun, We need a major overhaul in the summer, there are a lot of players that need replacing. Under MON most of them were guaranteed a game no matter how badly they were playing, some of them are now spitting the dummy.
I'd say the definition of 'badly' has dropped a notch or two in recent months. Despite what we might like to think, we finished 6th 3 times ( a bit of a purple patch if you look at our post war history), consistantly qualified for Europe and got to Wembley finals. That sort of progress feels like light years away right now.
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Believe it or not but Houllier is highly respected in europe (mainly France) and can still attract some big names. It can still be done ....
Where did you get that information (particularly the bit about being respected in France)? Most of the patrons in my local café and the staff room at work will be rolling on the floor clutching their sides if I show them this post.
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Our midfield is useless no matter who the manager, last season we were being overrun, We need a major overhaul in the summer, there are a lot of players that need replacing. Under MON most of them were guaranteed a game no matter how badly they were playing, some of them are now spitting the dummy.
I'd say the definition of 'badly' has dropped a notch or two in recent months. Despite what we might like to think, we finished 6th 3 times ( a bit of a purple patch if you look at our post war history), consistantly qualified for Europe and got to Wembley finals. That sort of progress feels like light years away right now.
It was progess based on short-sightedness though. Buying players who can only play in a certain way for big money and a limited shelf-life is all very well if your ManCity but if you're not, then having to replace them in 3 years is when the problems start. Gregory did exactly the same and the club never recovered financially
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O'Neill is equally as culpable for the situation we find ourselves in, both in terms of the dross he left us with and the manner of his departure.
He clearly didn't feel confident in getting a reaction out of the players he signed anymore, so walked. He might have had grievances about transfer policy, whether it was sell to buy and all the rest of it. Thing is, if that was the scenario, it was the same one faced by most of his peers except for Mancini. He should still have had enough drive and cojones to tough it out.
But like the man himself that's history.
We're in the shit, no time for recriminations.
Decisive action required.
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Pissed off with a few things.
- Heskey, that was stupid & gave Sunderland the advantage they needed to win. He should know better.
- The totally blind & moronic fans around me who thought he was brilliant for doing it, clapping Heskey off the pitch & then singing we always get shit refs.
- Gabby for not putting in any effort what so ever
- Downing for putting in equally as little effort
- NRC for being shit with a football. He's the sort of bloke that will never get his leg over as he spends 2 hours fumbling to try & get a birds bra off
There is more, I'm just too depressed & bored to even think of them.
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Heskey was bossing the game before he got sent off. He's such an experienced player, been to World Cups, played his whole career and he thinks he can do things like that and get away with it? Idiot.
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This was against a defence with Titus fucking bramble in. Why weren't we getting downing, ash, gabby running at him? He's shite! Says something when heskey is your most productive player. Yes he had a good games but he did miss two golden chances which is what he's on the field to do. And stupid to lash out the way he did.
Just woken up, turned on sky sports news in the hope that I'd be reading in the breaking news yellow ticker tape at the bottom that houllier has left... No such luck!
Come on randy, you've sacked one manager this week. Make it two!
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Heskey should be fined two weeks wages for that slap, idiot. But that's a minor point within the massive problems we have.
Was Randy at the game last night/
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I only paid £12.50 for my seat last night but still feel ripped off by the garbage we had to endure
as for Heskey, I hope he's fined 2 weeks wages for unprofessional behaviour
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Believe it or not but Houllier is highly respected in europe (mainly France) and can still attract some big names. It can still be done ....
Where did you get that information (particularly the bit about being respected in France)? Most of the patrons in my local café and the staff room at work will be rolling on the floor clutching their sides if I show them this post.
[/quote
He must hold a certain amount of respect in France to have been given his post. Plus they did not want him to leave ??
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What Heskey did was indefensible, any footballing idiot will tell you if you put your hands into an apponents face you will walk. The only reason he has escaped lightly is because of the furor over Houllier. By his actions he jepourdised the result and who knows maybe the season. He made a difficult situation into a clamity.
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Does that mean Heskey will get a 3 game ban and miss the SHA game?
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Does that mean Heskey will get a 3 game ban and miss the SHA game?
yes
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Does that mean Heskey will get a 3 game ban and miss the SHA game?
Yep.
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Fine the bastard.
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I applauded him, due to the fact he was the only one to show any skill, bottle, fight and passion. I'd imagine that's what the "idiots" were clapping rather than his idiotic sending off.
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I am by nature one of life's optimists and I was fairly sure that M. Houllier would do a sound professional job in managing our football club. After last night's dreadful display my confidence is more than shaken, it is close to being destroyed. It is invidious to single out one player for criticism, but Stewart Downing, above all, was so disappointing. He was totally abject. He wasn't helped by being placed on the right wing (along with an equally inexplicable positioning of Gabby on the opposite side), but he was totally ineffectual. But then - so were they all.
Midland teams occupy four of the bottom six places in the Division - and the lowest of them all is Aston Villa. Where will it all end?
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When was the last time we actually kept a clean sheet?
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In a rush so haven't time to read the thread but my thoughts.
I can understand why he started with the team that he did but after half time he should have changed things to get Gabby further forward but he dithered and seemed to have settled for a nil nil. Then, after Heskey went they became more confident and, again, he didn't react.
I haven't seen the sending off again but one of my real dislikes in football these days is the over reaction of players to minor injuries. There was nothing wrong with the twat lying on the floor but they reacted as though by not kicking the ball out we were risking his career. Tossers.
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When was the last time we actually kept a clean sheet?
0-0 at home against Blose.
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I think we're all missing the bigger picture here... There are forces more powerful at work. This situation we're in is nothing to do with MON or Houllier. There was some ancient hoodoo attached to that big screen on the north stand. Now it's gone the balance has been altered.
Rebuild it and they will come.
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When was the last time we actually kept a clean sheet?
0-0 at home against Blose.
Ah yes. Those were the days. Clean sheets. Ahhhhhhhh
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I haven't seen the sending off again but one of my real dislikes in football these days is the over reaction of players to minor injuries. There was nothing wrong with the twat lying on the floor but they reacted as though by not kicking the ball out we were risking his career. Tossers.
I agree with that Chris, their player was being really cynical and the TV cameras showed him having little looks up to see what was going on. It doesn't excuse Heskey's stupid reaction though, it was our free kick, but we ended up with a player sent off instead. Madness. Plus he'll be banned for three matches now.
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Is Cummings elidgible to play ???
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I can understand why he started with the team that worked and performed at Chelsea. When it was clear it wasn't working then he should have changed it, half-time maybe...
As for Heskey, this business of playing on when a player is down should be down to the ref. He should make it clear whether the game carries on or stops, then it will stop the fun and games that followed... Zenden was very lucky no to get booked for the challenge that actually stopped play. But Emile... our most experienced (and best attacking player on the night) should have really known better... by the time he's back in the team we could be three or four points adrift.
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awful, just awful...
heskey is a disgrace... missing that easy chance and then getting deservedly sent off...
i hope he follows that boggle eyed cheese eating surrender monkey out of the club...
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I applauded him, due to the fact he was the only one to show any skill, bottle, fight and passion. I'd imagine that's what the "idiots" were clapping rather than his idiotic sending off.
And that's what makes clapping him off even worse. He was our best player last night, we were set up for everything to be played through him, and bar his finishing, it was working. Sunderland had very few chances, and if he hadn't have been so stupid to get sent off, I'm confident we would have nicked a goal and won it.
While I acknowledge that Houllier was at fault regarding the substitutions coming too late and regarding the desperate shambles of the end with Dunne and Collins leading the attack, I believe that Heskey was primarily to blame for last night's result, not Houllier.
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Heskey should be fined two weeks wages for that slap, idiot. But that's a minor point within the massive problems we have.
Was Randy at the game last night/
and 3 weeks wages for the miss
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I applauded him, due to the fact he was the only one to show any skill, bottle, fight and passion. I'd imagine that's what the "idiots" were clapping rather than his idiotic sending off.
And that's what makes clapping him off even worse. He was our best player last night, we were set up for everything to be played through him, and bar his finishing, it was working. Sunderland had very few chances, and if he hadn't have been so stupid to get sent off, I'm confident we would have nicked a goal and won it.
While I acknowledge that Houllier was at fault regarding the substitutions coming too late and regarding the desperate shambles of the end with Dunne and Collins leading the attack, I believe that Heskey was primarily to blame for last night's result, not Houllier.
Well I completely disagree.
Playing our best centre forward on the left wing and our best left winger up front was the reason for last night's result. That was bad enough, but then not bothering to change it when it was obviously not working was a disgrace.
We ended up with Downing, Bannan and Ashley Young at centre half hitting the ball into their box, what a great Plan B.
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We ended up with Downing, Bannan and Ashley Young at centre half hitting the ball into their box, what a great Plan B.
I must admit that this wasn't the kind of tactical innovation I expected when GH was appointed.
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We ended up with Downing, Bannan and Ashley Young at centre half hitting the ball into their box, what a great Plan B.
I must admit that this wasn't the kind of tactical innovation I expected when GH was appointed.
Nor I.
It was like a 5 year old had implemented it.
McAllister is also looking totally out of his depth.
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And why our GK couldn't take the free kicks in our half God only knows.
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And why our GK couldn't take the free kicks in our half God only knows.
To be fair, with his kicking I'm not sure he'd reach their box.
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As mentioned before, Cuellar almost visibly shit himself everytime he got into an excellent position for a cross.
Every time he passed it back, thus releaving Sunderland of any potential danger.
For all Luke Young's or Eric Lichaj's defensive failings, they wouldn't be scared to put a ball into the box.
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After a restless night's sleep I've calmed down and was going to post some rational thoughts but.....
The players do not want to play for the manager. That is wrong. It shouldn't be like that, but it quite clearly is, and as a result we are in big, big trouble.
Tonight was the night I realised that, actually, it's not going to get any better under GH, the players aren't going to suddenly find the passion under him, it just will not happen. Sometimes it is a case of wrong manager, wrong club, wrong time, and all three seem to have happened at the same time for us.
We genuinely are getting worse. It wasn't just that we were performing badly today, I couldn't even see what we were trying to do.
Clark looked out of his depth.
Collins just swung his leg at the ball every time he got within 5 yards of it.
Dunne seems unable to jump. How many balls flew past him?
Cuellar, after marauding forward in the first half like a(nother) winger, but then infuriatingly passing it back, went to shit in the second half.
Petrov and Reo-Coker were both absolutely rubbish. One (NRC) clearly doesn't care any more, the other is not good enough.
Gabby - I can't really tell what we were trying to do with him out there, but he might as well have been in the fucking stand.
Ashley - worked hard, but he must be getting dispirited, I'd be off if I were him.
Heskey - worked hard, but the miss of the season and then a truly fucking cretinous thing to get sent off.
Sitting there tonight, we looked in many senses like a club in decline. Vast swathes of empty seats, no atmosphere or spirit in the crowd, the team going through the motions but really not caring either, the manager sat impassively watching the game pass by us, the whole place has a horrible feeling of malaise. For those of you who watched on the telly or on the internet, it is difficult to properly convey just how wretched an experience that was.
I still think changing manager at this point is asking for it, and risking an awful lot, but after watching that, I can not see how it can be any worse than persisting with GH and GM.
We're going to have to take the plunge and get shot. If we don't do it now - right now - we'll lose at Sheffield United, lose to Man City (which we're bound to lose) and get beaten at Blues, so he'll go anyway. Better to do it now.
We need leadership somewhere. There is none at all on the pitch, and none from the bench. It needs to come from the very top.
Desperately, desperately depressing.
...Paulie beat me to it. Sums up everything I was thinking.
The only thing I'll add is that the Beeb have just announced that Houllier has Randy's full backing. Hopefully it's the dreaded vote of confidence but unfortunately I fear not.
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People moaning about playing Ash as second striker should look at the fact that we have been playing him there virtually all season. There was one exception, I cannot remember which game it was now, where he started as a wide player and took his bat home and looked distinctly uninterested until the second half when he moved into the centre and started trying.
He is like a spoilt kid - there was even the taking of a free kick at the end when Brad came out of his goal nearly to half way to take it - but no, Ashley has to take it. Why, had he been putting all the others on a sixpence all night? He would have been better moving forward to pick up any knockdowns etc.
And as for being second striker aren't they supposed to score goals? If you are not in positions to shoot and if you never shoot you will not score. How many has he scored in PL games from open play this season?
But it wasn't only him - Gabby might as well not have been on the pitch. I have said before that Delfonso (sp) is worth a chance playing alongside Emile. Then play Ash wide with either Downing or Gabby. And why play Gabby and Downing on the "wrong" side all night? Ok mix it up with them swapping but it wasn't working with them permanently fixed to their given wing.
Last night showed again that this bunch have no fight, no bottle, and just couldn't care. The "injury" to Gyan typified it - the ref had a clear view of NRC's challenge and saw nothing wrong so why didn't we move the ball and attack instead of fannying about with it. Then our only player on the night who had some guts and determination, Emile, tries to do that and for the 3rd time in the match gets scythed down resulting in their player getting a yellow. Why Henderson (who I thought was the best player on the park last night) needed to run at Emile mouthing something at him god only knows, but it resulted in Heskey's frustration boiling over and the sending off. Personally I think our other players were just as guilty as their lack of bottle and guts caused the frustration in Emile.
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People moaning about playing Ash as second striker should look at the fact that we have been playing him there virtually all season. There was one exception, I cannot remember which game it was now, where he started as a wide player and took his bat home and looked distinctly uninterested until the second half when he moved into the centre and started trying.
Then don't play him at all if it's going to keep Gabby out of position.
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I didn't actually think we played that bad last night. We were by far the better team until Heskey went off and I think we would have won the game. We do need to start winning now though. Birmingham & Wigan games are crucial.
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Personally I think our other players were just as guilty as their lack of bottle and guts caused the frustration in Emile.
Emile was very frustrated last night and was showing his experience by playing out of his skin. We've seen so many inert performances from him that last night was a real treat and however damaging the dismissal was, at least he was fired up. Heskey appeared to be the only player who realised the importance of winning last night and I can understand why he was so angry by the time he finally flipped and was shown the red card.
I can't help but think that something has happened behind the scenes since the Chelsea game. Last night it seemed that most players had their minds on other things (transfers?) and seemed completely off the pace. The game was a perfect illustration of a confident mediocre team beating a good team lacking in confidence.
When I got home last night I was very angry and hoped that I would wake up this morning feeling a bit better. Firstly I didn't sleep well and kept waking up thinking how shit we were last night. When morning finally arrived I found that I am still seething about everything, from the players' discraceful performances, the officials ineptitude and a managerial display which cannot be summed up within my current vocabulary (and I have access to an online Thesaurus and Roger's Profanisaurus).
I have not been in a position to buy a season ticket this year and am buying seats game by game. Last night cost me £38 and I'm seriously trying to justify to myself why I should spend more on a ticket for the Citeh game if that's the quality which we are going to show. I know that our priority is to support our Club, but what I saw last night did not resemble Aston Villa.
Shocking and deeply depressing.
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Stick or Twist? I have also waited to post after the most depressing night I've had at VP for a while. We are stuck in a corner. Sack GH and his staff would also have to go. Realistically how can you replace the manager and backroom staff and then be active in the transfer window which has only 3 weeks or so to go? Any deals that will happen will have been in progress for weeks so any new manager will find it hard to get things moving.
If we stick with GH there does seem to be some fundamental issues around morale/spirit etc . Most of us wanted the same team to play last night as at Chelsea (did we not?). That is why we aren't Premier League managers. That team was set-up to stop Chelsea playing and to get a result which was achieved. The worrying thing is that our manager and coaches still went and played the same team at home when we need goals and points. That is the very worrying aspect for me.
On the postitive side Heskey is playing very well but his stupid reaction has now robbed us of him for 2 key league games. If we don't get a striker in we in big trouble for me.
What should we do?
See if Chris Hughton will come in as First Team Coach/Manager with GH going upstairs. Sorry - best I can think of.
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And why our GK couldn't take the free kicks in our half God only knows.
Your callous disregard for the elderly shocks me. I'd give up my seat if I saw Friedel standing in a bus.
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Heskey - worked hard, but the miss of the season and then a truly fucking cretinous thing to get sent off.
The miss was on a par with his miss at Sunderland, he should release a box set of DVD's featuring his own brand of fuckwittery in front of goal. Still not a fan.
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Heskey - worked hard, but the miss of the season and then a truly fucking cretinous thing to get sent off.
The miss was on a par with his miss at Sunderland, he should release a box set of DVD's featuring his own brand of fuckwittery in front of goal. Still not a fan.
Well at least you have a chance to remind us of that again.
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And why our GK couldn't take the free kicks in our half God only knows.
Your callous disregard for the elderly shocks me. I'd give up my seat if I saw Friedel standing in a bus.
Lol risso, Freidel's kicking ability is appalling!! Every time it's either rushed or just booted blindly up field and straight to the opposition. I find it as frustrating to watch as heskey not able to find the back of the net.
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But was the badge nice?
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But was the badge nice?
You can have mine if you like. Lol
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Heskey - worked hard, but the miss of the season and then a truly fucking cretinous thing to get sent off.
The miss was on a par with his miss at Sunderland, he should release a box set of DVD's featuring his own brand of fuckwittery in front of goal. Still not a fan.
Well at least you have a chance to remind us of that again.
I dare say there will be plenty of opportunities before the end of the season to do so again.
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Heskey was stupid to get sent off, but I think his contribution under Houllier has been better than any other 'senior' player. He's missed a couple of chances, don't all strikers?
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Why in the last 8 minutes (incl. stoppage time) were Bannan and Young playing centre back?
I understand the French fool wants to win headers but surely they have to win knock downs for our better attacking players? Why not just send one up and have our forward thinking players trying to feed off him?
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Still angry 19 hours after the final whistle -
Still going to FA3 at Sheffield on saturday-
Still going to wear my colours with (presently muted) pride-
Still going to sing my head off with similarly minded Villa mates -
Still going to believe Houllier is the wrong man for the job even if we reach FA4 -
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McAllister is also looking totally out of his depth.
Genuinely interested here as a few people have said this as though a lot of this latest slump in form is his fault. What makes you think this Mark?
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I thought I would feel a little better this morning but no... thankfully I don't have any noses to deal with today.
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I tend to move the conversation on to cricket asap.
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McAllister is also looking totally out of his depth.
Genuinely interested here as a few people have said this as though a lot of this latest slump in form is his fault. What makes you think this Mark?
The confusion and utter ineptitude on the pitch Joel.
He trains them nearly every day and he's clearly not up to the task if the garbage that they've been serving up is anything to go by.
His track record is piss poor to boot.
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My current employer is based near Sunderland and have had to spend the last few days their.
Spent Wednesday telling them all villa were going to win!
Spent today eating humble pie dished out by a load of idiots wearing strippy shirts!
Cheers Villa