Loanwatch 2023/24

[DrGonzo]

Mate that’s talent. He’s been good for the last 2 seasons on loan.

[FatSam]

I am the worst judge of footballing ability there is. I saw Silas play for Uniao de Leiria against Porto, and thought he was going to be a world beater. He signed for Wolves and made no impact whatsoever.

I wonder if Azaz is a Hourihane type player. Conor brought a good number of goals and assists, but was frequently criticised for his inability to prevent the opposition walking through our midfield. I thought he would find a new club near the top of the championship to move to, but ended up at Derby in League 1.

I think it would be the unrealistic to think that Azaz could come in to the first team squad and push us on towards our current targets. He only has half a season in the championship, and hasn’t even played in the EPL yet.

[Dogtanian]

Finn Azaz has consistently developed every season, while playing at ever-higher levels;

2020-21 L2  1 goal / 1 assist in 27 appearances.
2021-22 L2  7 goals / 6 assists in 34 appearances.
2022-23 L1  8 goals / 8 assists in 24 appearances.
2023-24 Ch  7 goals / 5 assists in 21 appearances.

144 professional appearances at 23 years old is impressive and his consistent adaptation to higher divisions is a sign of his potential. Whatever he does next season, he needs to be wherever offers him the right environment to keep on that impressive upwards trajectory.

[DrGonzo]

An erudite post, I was merely drawing attention to the quality of his finish XD

[pablo_picasso]

Finn Azaz has consistently developed every season, while playing at ever-higher levels;

2020-21 L2  1 goal / 1 assist in 27 appearances.
2021-22 L2  7 goals / 6 assists in 34 appearances.
2022-23 L1  8 goals / 8 assists in 24 appearances.
2023-24 Ch  7 goals / 5 assists in 21 appearances.

144 professional appearances at 23 years old is impressive and his consistent adaptation to higher divisions is a sign of his potential. Whatever he does next season, he needs to be wherever offers him the right environment to keep on that impressive upwards trajectory.

Those are very impressive numbers coming from midfield too.

I like him.

He has a physicality about him to go with that touch & I think he could certainly become a squad player.

But, I think he is being fattened up Hansel & Gretal style, so we can make some FFP farce savings.

I think that has been the plan all along & his great form is most welcome for the incoming numbers to the accountants & that alone.

I might be wrong though...

[paul_e]

Finn Azaz has consistently developed every season, while playing at ever-higher levels;

2020-21 L2  1 goal / 1 assist in 27 appearances.
2021-22 L2  7 goals / 6 assists in 34 appearances.
2022-23 L1  8 goals / 8 assists in 24 appearances.
2023-24 Ch  7 goals / 5 assists in 21 appearances.

144 professional appearances at 23 years old is impressive and his consistent adaptation to higher divisions is a sign of his potential. Whatever he does next season, he needs to be wherever offers him the right environment to keep on that impressive upwards trajectory.

Those are very impressive numbers coming from midfield too.

I like him.

He has a physicality about him to go with that touch & I think he could certainly become a squad player.

But, I think he is being fattened up Hansel & Gretal style, so we can make some FFP farce savings.

I think that has been the plan all along & his great form is most welcome for the incoming numbers to the accountants & that alone.

I might be wrong though...

I agree. Those numbers are a £20-25m player in the current market and that would be all profit. I could even see someone like Sheff Utd being interested in this window if we can agree to recall him.

[Smithy]

I am the worst judge of footballing ability there is. I saw Silas play for Uniao de Leiria against Porto, and thought he was going to be a world beater. He signed for Wolves and made no impact whatsoever.

I wonder if Azaz is a Hourihane type player. Conor brought a good number of goals and assists, but was frequently criticised for his inability to prevent the opposition walking through our midfield. I thought he would find a new club near the top of the championship to move to, but ended up at Derby in League 1.

I think it would be the unrealistic to think that Azaz could come in to the first team squad and push us on towards our current targets. He only has half a season in the championship, and hasn’t even played in the EPL yet.

I think we've passed the point where promising youth products are valued based on whether or not they could get into our first team. 

We're at a level now where, realistically, we might produce one or two players every few years that have the potential to be in our first team squad. We might get incredibly lucky and have two or three of them all come through at the same time.  The reality is that the best youth products each year will now be sold on to help our FFP position a la Archer, Philogene, Chuk, Ramsey Jnr and so on. 

If some of them break through into OUR side, then great, but it's also good for us as a club if players like Azaz thrive in the Championship, as it could mean the difference between a player leaving for nothing at the end of his contract (which has traditionally been the way with our youth products) and getting a few million for them to help with FFP.  Even averaging £10m a year from youth sales would give us the ability to pay two new players £100k a week.

Honestly, I don't really like looking at it this way.  I'm more of an old romantic who loves seeing youth players making an impact in our team.  I've always had far more affinity for those players than anyone bought in.  My earliest memories of youth players breaking through were Gary Shaw, Tony Daley, Mark Walters.  And that carried on with the likes of Barry, Hendrie, Vassell, Gabby and Jack. But I'm also a realist, and I recognise that if we're going to have the financial muscle to compete at the top end of the table in the long-term, then we're probably going to need our youth system to be churning out players we can sell at a profit.  I don't like it, but I accept it that's the reality these days.

What happens with Finn Azaz will be an interesting insight into how the club sees this sort of player moving forward.

[Smithy]

Finn Azaz has consistently developed every season, while playing at ever-higher levels;

2020-21 L2  1 goal / 1 assist in 27 appearances.
2021-22 L2  7 goals / 6 assists in 34 appearances.
2022-23 L1  8 goals / 8 assists in 24 appearances.
2023-24 Ch  7 goals / 5 assists in 21 appearances.

144 professional appearances at 23 years old is impressive and his consistent adaptation to higher divisions is a sign of his potential. Whatever he does next season, he needs to be wherever offers him the right environment to keep on that impressive upwards trajectory.

Those are very impressive numbers coming from midfield too.

I like him.

He has a physicality about him to go with that touch & I think he could certainly become a squad player.

But, I think he is being fattened up Hansel & Gretal style, so we can make some FFP farce savings.

I think that has been the plan all along & his great form is most welcome for the incoming numbers to the accountants & that alone.

I might be wrong though...

I agree. Those numbers are a £20-25m player in the current market and that would be all profit. I could even see someone like Sheff Utd being interested in this window if we can agree to recall him.

I think £25m for Azaz is a pipe dream.  We've had youth players at teams contributing heavily towards a promotion push from the Championship, and still only getting £15m-£20m.

If he carries on like he has been so far this season, I think he'll be worth £5-£10m, which is perfectly acceptable if we get a buy-back of about double that if he happens to find himself in the premier league and still contributing and scoring at his current rate.

I think the kid (can we still call him a kid at 23?) has the potential to play in the top flight, but I don't think someone is going to pay £20m+ to take him there.

[paul_e]

Finn Azaz has consistently developed every season, while playing at ever-higher levels;

2020-21 L2  1 goal / 1 assist in 27 appearances.
2021-22 L2  7 goals / 6 assists in 34 appearances.
2022-23 L1  8 goals / 8 assists in 24 appearances.
2023-24 Ch  7 goals / 5 assists in 21 appearances.

144 professional appearances at 23 years old is impressive and his consistent adaptation to higher divisions is a sign of his potential. Whatever he does next season, he needs to be wherever offers him the right environment to keep on that impressive upwards trajectory.

Those are very impressive numbers coming from midfield too.

I like him.

He has a physicality about him to go with that touch & I think he could certainly become a squad player.

But, I think he is being fattened up Hansel & Gretal style, so we can make some FFP farce savings.

I think that has been the plan all along & his great form is most welcome for the incoming numbers to the accountants & that alone.

I might be wrong though...

I agree. Those numbers are a £20-25m player in the current market and that would be all profit. I could even see someone like Sheff Utd being interested in this window if we can agree to recall him.

I think £25m for Azaz is a pipe dream.  We've had youth players at teams contributing heavily towards a promotion push from the Championship, and still only getting £15m-£20m.

If he carries on like he has been so far this season, I think he'll be worth £5-£10m, which is perfectly acceptable if we get a buy-back of about double that if he happens to find himself in the premier league and still contributing and scoring at his current rate.

I think the kid (can we still call him a kid at 23?) has the potential to play in the top flight, but I don't think someone is going to pay £20m+ to take him there.

His record this season is comparable to Archer at Boro and we got £20m there. His record is better than Alex Scott who went for around £25m. I get that both are younger but he's genuinely one of the top 10-12 attacking players in the championship and that's the market value for that group.

[pablo_picasso]

I think £25m for Azaz is a pipe dream.  We've had youth players at teams contributing heavily towards a promotion push from the Championship, and still only getting £15m-£20m.

If he carries on like he has been so far this season, I think he'll be worth £5-£10m, which is perfectly acceptable if we get a buy-back of about double that if he happens to find himself in the premier league and still contributing and scoring at his current rate.

I think the kid (can we still call him a kid at 23?) has the potential to play in the top flight, but I don't think someone is going to pay £20m+ to take him there.

It probably is for us, because we don't appear to see the value in potential.

Take Philogene-Bidace for example, the fee we let him go for was ridiculous for a player of his ability.

What was it? £5m?

Hull fans now reckon that he is worth about £30m to them.

Whether we bring him back & sell him on for around that amount remains to be seen, especially as it will actually cost us £10m for the privilege, IF, the conditions of the clause are met.

Another one, in Archer, what was he? £20m?

Again, for a player with his numbers, ability & potential, I don't think we have added potential into the valuation.

Whether that happens again with Azaz, is more than likely, in my humble opinion...

[Smithy]

I think £25m for Azaz is a pipe dream.  We've had youth players at teams contributing heavily towards a promotion push from the Championship, and still only getting £15m-£20m.

If he carries on like he has been so far this season, I think he'll be worth £5-£10m, which is perfectly acceptable if we get a buy-back of about double that if he happens to find himself in the premier league and still contributing and scoring at his current rate.

I think the kid (can we still call him a kid at 23?) has the potential to play in the top flight, but I don't think someone is going to pay £20m+ to take him there.

It probably is for us, because we don't appear to see the value in potential.

Take Philogene-Bidace for example, the fee we let him go for was ridiculous for a player of his ability.

What was it? £5m?

Hull fans now reckon that he is worth about £30m to them.

Whether we bring him back & sell him on for around that amount remains to be seen, especially as it will actually cost us £10m for the privilege, IF, the conditions of the clause are met.

Another one, in Archer, what was he? £20m?

Again, for a player with his numbers, ability & potential, I don't think we have added potential into the valuation.

Whether that happens again with Azaz, is more than likely, in my humble opinion...

I think the price you get if you want a buy-back is ALWAYS going to be less than if you sell without one.  Could we have got more for the likes of Archer? Probably.  But we would have had to sacrifice the buy-back clause to do so.

I will be DELIGHTED to be proven wrong with Azaz, but I think the absolute best we can expect is Ramsey Jnr style money and more realistically something around £10m.  Unless he has an incredible second-half to the season and gets close to 20 goals from midfield, then all bets are off :-)

[Risso]

His record this season is comparable to Archer at Boro and we got £20m there. His record is better than Alex Scott who went for around £25m. I get that both are younger but he's genuinely one of the top 10-12 attacking players in the championship and that's the market value for that group.

Sheffield United were gambling with their Premier League money though, so yes he could be worth that if one of the newly promited teams want to take a chance. If it's a Championship team it would be less like Philogene at Hull, but possibly a deal done in our favour.

[paul_e]

His record this season is comparable to Archer at Boro and we got £20m there. His record is better than Alex Scott who went for around £25m. I get that both are younger but he's genuinely one of the top 10-12 attacking players in the championship and that's the market value for that group.

Sheffield United were gambling with their Premier League money though, so yes he could be worth that if one of the newly promited teams want to take a chance. If it's a Championship team it would be less like Philogene at Hull, but possibly a deal done in our favour.

Yep, that's exactly who I was talking about when I said it.

I agree. Those numbers are a £20-25m player in the current market and that would be all profit. I could even see someone like Sheff Utd being interested in this window if we can agree to recall him.

Next summer is more likely and I could see someone like Ipswich being interested or one of the clubs that manage to dodge relegation but see 1-2 of their better players go out (Forest if Gibbs-White goes for example).

[pablo_picasso]

I think £25m for Azaz is a pipe dream.  We've had youth players at teams contributing heavily towards a promotion push from the Championship, and still only getting £15m-£20m.

If he carries on like he has been so far this season, I think he'll be worth £5-£10m, which is perfectly acceptable if we get a buy-back of about double that if he happens to find himself in the premier league and still contributing and scoring at his current rate.

I think the kid (can we still call him a kid at 23?) has the potential to play in the top flight, but I don't think someone is going to pay £20m+ to take him there.

It probably is for us, because we don't appear to see the value in potential.

Take Philogene-Bidace for example, the fee we let him go for was ridiculous for a player of his ability.

What was it? £5m?

Hull fans now reckon that he is worth about £30m to them.

Whether we bring him back & sell him on for around that amount remains to be seen, especially as it will actually cost us £10m for the privilege, IF, the conditions of the clause are met.

Another one, in Archer, what was he? £20m?

Again, for a player with his numbers, ability & potential, I don't think we have added potential into the valuation.

Whether that happens again with Azaz, is more than likely, in my humble opinion...

I think the price you get if you want a buy-back is ALWAYS going to be less than if you sell without one.  Could we have got more for the likes of Archer? Probably.  But we would have had to sacrifice the buy-back clause to do so.

I will be DELIGHTED to be proven wrong with Azaz, but I think the absolute best we can expect is Ramsey Jnr style money and more realistically something around £10m.  Unless he has an incredible second-half to the season and gets close to 20 goals from midfield, then all bets are off :-)

Granted, that is an element that will reduce the price, so I accept that as a valid point, but I don't think it warrants such a reduction in price to totally remove potential from the finalised fee.

Take Alex Scott for example.

He had nowhere near the numbers of Aaron Ramsey & he played a shit ton more games.

But he still went for £25m, mostly due to his potential...

[Smithy]

I think £25m for Azaz is a pipe dream.  We've had youth players at teams contributing heavily towards a promotion push from the Championship, and still only getting £15m-£20m.

If he carries on like he has been so far this season, I think he'll be worth £5-£10m, which is perfectly acceptable if we get a buy-back of about double that if he happens to find himself in the premier league and still contributing and scoring at his current rate.

I think the kid (can we still call him a kid at 23?) has the potential to play in the top flight, but I don't think someone is going to pay £20m+ to take him there.

It probably is for us, because we don't appear to see the value in potential.

Take Philogene-Bidace for example, the fee we let him go for was ridiculous for a player of his ability.

What was it? £5m?

Hull fans now reckon that he is worth about £30m to them.

Whether we bring him back & sell him on for around that amount remains to be seen, especially as it will actually cost us £10m for the privilege, IF, the conditions of the clause are met.

Another one, in Archer, what was he? £20m?

Again, for a player with his numbers, ability & potential, I don't think we have added potential into the valuation.

Whether that happens again with Azaz, is more than likely, in my humble opinion...

I think the price you get if you want a buy-back is ALWAYS going to be less than if you sell without one.  Could we have got more for the likes of Archer? Probably.  But we would have had to sacrifice the buy-back clause to do so.

I will be DELIGHTED to be proven wrong with Azaz, but I think the absolute best we can expect is Ramsey Jnr style money and more realistically something around £10m.  Unless he has an incredible second-half to the season and gets close to 20 goals from midfield, then all bets are off :-)

Granted, that is an element that will reduce the price, so I accept that as a valid point, but I don't think it warrants such a reduction in price to totally remove potential from the finalised fee.

Take Alex Scott for example.

He had nowhere near the numbers of Aaron Ramsey & he played a shit ton more games.

But he still went for £25m, mostly due to his potential...

Yes, potential plays a big part, I agree, but Alex Scott is also a very talented player who does far more than score and assist.  He's a Grealish-style dribbler, and was the Championship Young Player of the Year in the 22/23 season at 19 (and got in the team of the season), despite playing for a team that finished 14th.  He's very highly rated by the people who've played against him.  I'll be surprised if he's still at Bournemouth in a couple of years.

That's not to say Azaz isn't a very good player in his own right.  I just think comparing him to someone like Alex Scott is a bit unfair on him.  Not every promising midfielder thriving in the Championship is worth £25m.