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Author Topic: Loanwatch 2023/24  (Read 42717 times)

Online jwarry

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Re: Loanwatch 2023/24
« Reply #240 on: December 29, 2023, 02:04:16 PM »
I came see any of the likes of Philogene, Archer or Ramsey coming back now.  We’ve moved up several notches since they were fringe players 

Offline AV84

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Re: Loanwatch 2023/24
« Reply #241 on: December 29, 2023, 02:34:43 PM »
Isn't the Philogene "15mil if we're in the same league" thing based off something their owner said? I think he said something that some people interpretated as being the only way we could buy him back, but I think he was talking about their own financial situation and was keen to get the idea across that they could potentially do well out of their deal for him.

Offline Risso

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Re: Loanwatch 2023/24
« Reply #242 on: December 29, 2023, 05:32:45 PM »
Isn't the Philogene "15mil if we're in the same league" thing based off something their owner said? I think he said something that some people interpretated as being the only way we could buy him back, but I think he was talking about their own financial situation and was keen to get the idea across that they could potentially do well out of their deal for him.


He was pretty specific about the clause, and said that our right to buy him back kicks in if they get promoted, and how they can sell him to somebody else but we have first refusal. It wasn't a general point about their finances. That wouldn't make any sense anyway.

Offline Dave

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Re: Loanwatch 2023/24
« Reply #243 on: December 29, 2023, 05:35:45 PM »
Wasn't sure where to put this...

I'd probably have gone with the near-600 post thread titled "Jaden Philogene - sold".

Offline AV84

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Re: Loanwatch 2023/24
« Reply #244 on: December 29, 2023, 05:49:06 PM »

He was pretty specific about the clause, and said that our right to buy him back kicks in if they get promoted, and how they can sell him to somebody else but we have first refusal. It wasn't a general point about their finances. That wouldn't make any sense anyway.

He (the chairman) was talking about the thinking behind their transfer negotiations, and he said...

Quote
“It’s pretty simple. The buy-back clause can be interpreted negatively or very positively. If the player is yours and you feel you don’t have the right to control it all the way along (through the contract) but you can also look at being able to get that kind of talented player you create a win-win situation, and share certain rights so that you can get it done and beat the competition.

“What we did in my opinion and for our fans to (understand) our decisions for the future, we’re not just buying players and then their previous clubs can buy them back from us, it’s a mechanism where we create a win-win situation.”

“There is a value that has been put on an identified performance, which is good. Maybe he can never reach there or he can bypass there, but at least for the market, for the industry, we know what he can be worth to leave our club.

“If someone comes in and offers less than his buy-back value, do we consider it? Should we consider it? Probably not. It’s a good thing. And having another big club on your side and being able to have some part in Jaden’s development plan is good.

“If we promote (to the Premier League), Villa have the right to buy him back for £15m. Having said that, if we have another offer that’s worth more than £15m then we would have the right to discuss it, it’s not like we’re forced to sell to Villa but they would have the first choice and that’s part of our agreement.

You can probably interpretate that in different ways, but given he's trying to explain their deals to their own fans, it sounds to me like they have a clause that means IF they are promoted, and IF we want him back, we have to pay £15mil for him. It doesn't really say that that is the only circumstances in which we can buy him back, or that we have to pay £15 mil for him.

Offline Smithy

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Re: Loanwatch 2023/24
« Reply #245 on: December 29, 2023, 07:15:44 PM »

He was pretty specific about the clause, and said that our right to buy him back kicks in if they get promoted, and how they can sell him to somebody else but we have first refusal. It wasn't a general point about their finances. That wouldn't make any sense anyway.

He (the chairman) was talking about the thinking behind their transfer negotiations, and he said...

Quote
“It’s pretty simple. The buy-back clause can be interpreted negatively or very positively. If the player is yours and you feel you don’t have the right to control it all the way along (through the contract) but you can also look at being able to get that kind of talented player you create a win-win situation, and share certain rights so that you can get it done and beat the competition.

“What we did in my opinion and for our fans to (understand) our decisions for the future, we’re not just buying players and then their previous clubs can buy them back from us, it’s a mechanism where we create a win-win situation.”

“There is a value that has been put on an identified performance, which is good. Maybe he can never reach there or he can bypass there, but at least for the market, for the industry, we know what he can be worth to leave our club.

“If someone comes in and offers less than his buy-back value, do we consider it? Should we consider it? Probably not. It’s a good thing. And having another big club on your side and being able to have some part in Jaden’s development plan is good.

“If we promote (to the Premier League), Villa have the right to buy him back for £15m. Having said that, if we have another offer that’s worth more than £15m then we would have the right to discuss it, it’s not like we’re forced to sell to Villa but they would have the first choice and that’s part of our agreement.

You can probably interpretate that in different ways, but given he's trying to explain their deals to their own fans, it sounds to me like they have a clause that means IF they are promoted, and IF we want him back, we have to pay £15mil for him. It doesn't really say that that is the only circumstances in which we can buy him back, or that we have to pay £15 mil for him.

Yep, that's how I read it.  He's selling the deal to the fans, and the £15m price is the highest we could possible pay, and ONLY if they've been promoted to the Premier League (which makes sense, as he'd technically be a premier league player at that point).  I suspect we have the right to buy him back for less if they're NOT promoted, but he didn't mention it because the deal would look worse if he did.

Offline pablo_picasso

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Re: Loanwatch 2023/24
« Reply #246 on: December 29, 2023, 07:30:13 PM »
Wasn't sure where to put this...

I'd probably have gone with the near-600 post thread titled "Jaden Philogene - sold".

Oddly, that was my first thought.

It didn't pop up when I did a search for it though...

Got three pages of other stuff.

Offline Risso

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Re: Loanwatch 2023/24
« Reply #247 on: December 29, 2023, 07:34:44 PM »
Well obviously the only part of a loan deal that people worry about are clauses that can be enforced. So if we definitely want Philogene back and then they'd prefer not to sell, then we have to pay Hull £15m (if they're promoted) and they have to sell. In that way it's similar to when Man City had the buy back clause with us for Luiz If they wanted him in the first two years after they sold him. The agreement said they had to pay £25m or £30m (forget which). Obviously they could have offered less, and we could have accepted it, but that's not all that interesting or relevant really.

Offline Brazilian Villain

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Re: Loanwatch 2023/24
« Reply #248 on: December 29, 2023, 07:37:59 PM »
The agreement said they had to pay £25m or £30m (forget which). Obviously they could have offered less, and we could have accepted it, but that's not all that interesting or relevant really.

My understanding at the time was that it was £25m after the first season, then £30m after the second. As it wasn't activated, I don't know it that was the case.

Offline Risso

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Re: Loanwatch 2023/24
« Reply #249 on: December 29, 2023, 07:43:57 PM »
The agreement said they had to pay £25m or £30m (forget which). Obviously they could have offered less, and we could have accepted it, but that's not all that interesting or relevant really.

My understanding at the time was that it was £25m after the first season, then £30m after the second. As it wasn't activated, I don't know it that was the case.

Yes, I think that was it.

Offline Daley’s dreads

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Re: Loanwatch 2023/24
« Reply #250 on: January 01, 2024, 03:30:41 PM »
Finn Azaz just scored a beautiful, cushioned volley. Possible the hardest finish to pull off! Definitely got talent.

Offline Dogtanian

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Re: Loanwatch 2023/24
« Reply #251 on: January 01, 2024, 09:25:48 PM »
Finn Azaz just scored a beautiful, cushioned volley. Possible the hardest finish to pull off! Definitely got talent.

A goal or assist every 160 minutes this season for him.

https://x.com/itvfootball/status/1741904373175992705?s=20

Online Ian.

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Re: Loanwatch 2023/24
« Reply #252 on: January 01, 2024, 09:27:24 PM »
That’s sublime, what a finish.

Offline SteveN

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Re: Loanwatch 2023/24
« Reply #253 on: January 01, 2024, 09:31:48 PM »
Finn Azaz just scored a beautiful, cushioned volley. Possible the hardest finish to pull off! Definitely got talent.

Just about to post the same.  A mate watches a lot of Plymouth and thinks Azaz could play a role for us in the second part of the season.

Offline pauliewalnuts

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Re: Loanwatch 2023/24
« Reply #254 on: January 01, 2024, 10:41:44 PM »
That Azaz goal is a belter.

Recall him!

 


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