Pau Torres

[Concrete Tom]

It’s pretty evident that it’s a defensive combination/team structure thing more than it being about Pau.

I agree.

Against Palace on Saturday, we kept trying to play flicks and quick passes through midfield but these were getting cut out and all of a sudden our defence is on the turn and outnumbered during the transition.

IMO Rogers is most guilty of this at the moment - probably (hopefully) just due to fatigue.

[VillaTim]

1st goal was crucial as so often . Once they got they were able to execute their game plan to perfection. That's why we had to keep it tight at the back and not make daft mistakes gifting them the goal.

[RamboandBruno]

1st goal was crucial as so often . Once they got they were able to execute their game plan to perfection. That's why we had to keep it tight at the back and not make daft mistakes gifting them the goal.

There is nuance here though. Torres lost the ball quite badly, but there was still a lot for Palace to do to score. Could someone of cut the pass out Eze, could someone has closed Eze down quicker, could Martinez’s positioning have been better. Indicating the goal is largely down to one mistake by one player is incorrect as is the overall analysis of removing that player solves the issues.

[VillaTim]

It's the needless ball loss and turnover in such a key area though that brings all the danger .

[ChicagoLion]

1st goal was crucial as so often . Once they got they were able to execute their game plan to perfection. That's why we had to keep it tight at the back and not make daft mistakes gifting them the goal.

There is nuance here though. Torres lost the ball quite badly, but there was still a lot for Palace to do to score. Could someone of cut the pass out Eze, could someone has closed Eze down quicker, could Martinez’s positioning have been better. Indicating the goal is largely down to one mistake by one player is incorrect as is the overall analysis of removing that player solves the issues.

None of which is necessary if he doesn’t gift them the ball.
It was chronic and he contributed fxxxx all after either.

[RamboandBruno]

1st goal was crucial as so often . Once they got they were able to execute their game plan to perfection. That's why we had to keep it tight at the back and not make daft mistakes gifting them the goal.

There is nuance here though. Torres lost the ball quite badly, but there was still a lot for Palace to do to score. Could someone of cut the pass out Eze, could someone has closed Eze down quicker, could Martinez’s positioning have been better. Indicating the goal is largely down to one mistake by one player is incorrect as is the overall analysis of removing that player solves the issues.

None of which is necessary if he doesn’t gift them the ball.
It was chronic and he contributed fxxxx all after either.

Compared to who? I don’t remember anybody other than  Bailey and McGinn for 10 mins in the first half contribute anything of note, why pick him out?

[London Villan]

While most of us agree it was the wrong call to play Torres instead of Mings, there's much more to the defeat than that.

We treated it like a domestic cup away game (and we know how they normally pan out) rather than an end-of-season must-not-lose home game... Even with Torres at centre half we could and should have done a lot better.

[Monty]

Honestly, he makes errors, and he also has a lot of good qualities. What to do? Well, maybe don't play this wild 4-2-4, with one of the midfield 2 being effectively a 10 playing deep (Tielemans). It works sometimes, but in too many games we're not giving anybody in the team their best chance at shining except maybe Rogers. And we know what confidence is as well, as players who make mistakes will often go on to make more.

During the summer we need to work something out. I'd favour having the option open to play Konsa as the right back who shuffles over to make a 3 in possession with both Mings AND Pau inside, with some combination of Onana, Kamara, maybe Barkley, maybe also a new signing (and Enzo? Bogarde?), just to make us less absurdly vulnerable on transition.

[Drummond]

Honestly, he makes errors, and he also has a lot of good qualities. What to do? Well, maybe don't play this wild 4-2-4, with one of the midfield 2 being effectively a 10 playing deep (Tielemans). It works sometimes, but in too many games we're not giving anybody in the team their best chance at shining except maybe Rogers. And we know what confidence is as well, as players who make mistakes will often go on to make more.

During the summer we need to work something out. I'd favour having the option open to play Konsa as the right back who shuffles over to make a 3 in possession with both Mings AND Pau inside, with some combination of Onana, Kamara, maybe Barkley, maybe also a new signing (and Enzo? Bogarde?), just to make us less absurdly vulnerable on transition.

                   Martinez
         Konsa    Mings    Torres
Garcia                                Maatsen
                     Kamara     
      Malen      Tielemans    Ramsey
                     Watkins       

[Sexual Ealing]

No.

[caster troy]

By my calculations we have had four different back four combos to have started 6 or more games this season.

Cash/Konsa/Torres/Digne is statistically the worst, averaging just over a point per game over 13 appearances. Conceding 1.8 per game and including three out of the four times we have conceded 3 or more in a game. Just two clean sheets. We only score a goal a game with this combo too.

Konsa/Carlos/Torres/Digne was slightly better at 1.8 points per game and conceding 1.5 per game over 6 appearances. Bayern at home was the only clean sheet. We scored two goals per game with this combo thanks to Wolves (H) and Leipzig (A).

Cash/Konsa/Mings/Digne averages 2.2 points per game over 6 appearances conceding 0.7 goals per game. Cash/Konsa/Mings/Maatsen is the same just with more goals scored per game so that is statistically the best although that is skewed by Bruges (H) v 10 men.

Mings HAS to be first choice now in the final games. If Liverpool can give Van Dijk a new contract at 33 we can keep Tyrone for a while yet.

[ChicagoLion]

Honestly, he makes errors, and he also has a lot of good qualities. What to do? Well, maybe don't play this wild 4-2-4, with one of the midfield 2 being effectively a 10 playing deep (Tielemans). It works sometimes, but in too many games we're not giving anybody in the team their best chance at shining except maybe Rogers. And we know what confidence is as well, as players who make mistakes will often go on to make more.

During the summer we need to work something out. I'd favour having the option open to play Konsa as the right back who shuffles over to make a 3 in possession with both Mings AND Pau inside, with some combination of Onana, Kamara, maybe Barkley, maybe also a new signing (and Enzo? Bogarde?), just to make us less absurdly vulnerable on transition.

                   Martinez
         Konsa    Mings    Torres
Garcia                                Maatsen
                     Kamara     
      Malen      Tielemans    Ramsey
                     Watkins     

We have seen what this system does to us.i hate it.

Torres is the obvious Libero.

[Percy McCarthy]

By my calculations we have had four different back four combos to have started 6 or more games this season.

Cash/Konsa/Torres/Digne is statistically the worst, averaging just over a point per game over 13 appearances. Conceding 1.8 per game and including three out of the four times we have conceded 3 or more in a game. Just two clean sheets. We only score a goal a game with this combo too.

Konsa/Carlos/Torres/Digne was slightly better at 1.8 points per game and conceding 1.5 per game over 6 appearances. Bayern at home was the only clean sheet. We scored two goals per game with this combo thanks to Wolves (H) and Leipzig (A).

Cash/Konsa/Mings/Digne averages 2.2 points per game over 6 appearances conceding 0.7 goals per game. Cash/Konsa/Mings/Maatsen is the same just with more goals scored per game so that is statistically the best although that is skewed by Bruges (H) v 10 men.

Mings HAS to be first choice now in the final games. If Liverpool can give Van Dijk a new contract at 33 we can keep Tyrone for a while yet.

Interesting. I agree with your conclusion. Would be interesting to see how much better Pau/Carlos would come out if the clean sheets in games v Southampton, Juventus and Bologna were not excluded just because the full-backs were different. Also, clean sheets second half against Young Boys, and from 12 minutes on against Man Utd.

Nice to have it proven with facts that Konsa/Mings is our best partnership, and Pau/Carlos was way more effective than Konsa/Pau. No doubt some posters afflicted by memory loss will continue shake their fists at reality though, for some weird reason.

[sid1964]

Reading the above comments it would make you think that only Pau who made errors on Saturday??

He is therefore totally to blame for the defeat!

He is the latest in a long line of scapegoat's, let’s hope he gets his move to Real Madrid in the summer because he is obviously not good enough for Aston Villa.

[ChicagoLion]

1st goal was crucial as so often . Once they got they were able to execute their game plan to perfection. That's why we had to keep it tight at the back and not make daft mistakes gifting them the goal.

There is nuance here though. Torres lost the ball quite badly, but there was still a lot for Palace to do to score. Could someone of cut the pass out Eze, could someone has closed Eze down quicker, could Martinez’s positioning have been better. Indicating the goal is largely down to one mistake by one player is incorrect as is the overall analysis of removing that player solves the issues.

None of which is necessary if he doesn’t gift them the ball.
It was chronic and he contributed fxxxx all after either.

Compared to who? I don’t remember anybody other than  Bailey and McGinn for 10 mins in the first half contribute anything of note, why pick him out?

Because we are discussing Torres?Maybe.