Pau Torres

[PaulWinch again]

Yeah but upgrading Torres would cost an absolute fortune. I know you don’t get it, but with the right defensive set up he’s part of a team that can compete and beat the best.

[VillaTim]

Yeah but upgrading Torres would cost an absolute fortune. I know you don’t get it, but with the right defensive set up he’s part of a team that can compete and beat the best.

It won't cost a fortune though. We need a CB who can defend and stop goals going in.
I know you don't get it , but if we don't concede as many as the opposition we win more games and don't get knocked out of cup games . Torres is a very weak defender who is costing us progress .

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Seeing as correlation not equalling causation is an apparent mystery on this site to some, I'm wondering how that reverses itself with Torres last seeing and qualifying for the Champions League, having finished 4th. Or do we pick and choose? Let's make this tedious shite make sense!

[PaulWinch again]

Yawn Tim, so much evidence to show in a functional defensive set up and in form he is in the Villa side that beats the best sides.

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Yawn Tim, so much evidence to show in a functional defensive set up and in form he is in the Villa side that beats the best sides.

You're talking to someone that posted endlessly about Jermaine Beckford being an answer. Forlorn looking for logic with Coopers Injury. He was banned twice for a reason.

[VillaTim]

Yawn Tim, so much evidence to show in a functional defensive set up and in form he is in the Villa side that beats the best sides.

Yawn Paul . the stats don't lie , or the eyes.

[PaulWinch again]

Apparently they do.

[VillaTim]

they don't , the stats have been put up many times on here .

[PaulWinch again]

Yawn Tim, so much evidence to show in a functional defensive set up and in form he is in the Villa side that beats the best sides.

You're talking to someone that posted endlessly about Jermaine Beckford being an answer. Forlorn looking for logic with Coopers Injury. He was banned twice for a reason.

Yeah I know and I’m sure if I could be bothered to look has probably called Ty a liability or hopeless in the past too.

[VillaTim]

Yawn Tim, so much evidence to show in a functional defensive set up and in form he is in the Villa side that beats the best sides.

You're talking to someone that posted endlessly about Jermaine Beckford being an answer. Forlorn looking for logic with Coopers Injury. He was banned twice for a reason.

Yeah I know and I’m sure if I could be bothered to look has probably called Ty a liability or hopeless in the past too.

Nope . He is a class CB , organiser , leader , defender , and he can pass a ball too . but yeah go check .

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They're both flawed. Mings positioning tends to be poor. He got caught the wrong side of Archer against Southampton of all sides, switched off against Liverpool, totally switched off at Bruges, Monaco. But he does put his body on the line (I think he may have a bit of the Chester about him sadly with that), good in the air, strong and not too bad instinctively either.

Torres positioning is excellent, great passer, but lacks the physical side. Both flawed, both good, neither the panacea the maximalists seem to think.

[PaulWinch again]

You are absolutely right neither is the panacea - but there are likely a lot more options out there with Ty’s characteristics than Pau’s. To get both in one player you’re talking top end world class.

[Percy McCarthy]

Seeing as correlation not equalling causation is an apparent mystery on this site to some, I'm wondering how that reverses itself with Torres last seeing and qualifying for the Champions League, having finished 4th. Or do we pick and choose? Let's make this tedious shite make sense!

Under Emery, and with Mings playing, our points-per-game was better in 22/23  (it also shot up when he returned this season along with the number of clean sheets) and extrapolated over a 38 game season we would have got more than the 68 points that got us fourth. The defence was 15 goals better even including 11 games under that clown Gerrard whose handicap, according to some, was working with a load of not top 6 players.

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For me the biggest issue is that we're a fucking horrible side to play at Villa Park. You're absolutely not winning, you'll do well to get a point, but more than likely we'll do you. Every aspect of that dilutes far too regularly away. We have changed our style this season, we do take a lot more risks. I don't think we'll ever see the 2-0 defensive masterclass of Spurs New Years Day again. But while we concede silly goals, not helped by Emi, endless injuries this season and even last at the death, that mentality(?), that structure away from home- how we make that consistent in the way we are at Villa Park, now that is the panacea. I don't think it's down to the individuals we have available right now and by and large I like the lot of them.

[PaulWinch again]

Right but one point missing here is the defence doesn’t play on its own. Clearly you want to concede as few a goals as possible, but our dynamism in attack is also something that has been absolutely key in Unai’s time - probably atypically in his career. Our ability to build from the back has been really key to our strongest moments.

Just to be clear I’m not disagreeing with the notion we need to be better defensively - we evidently do. But the defence also has to support our wider aims as a team, that’s what the best teams do. It’s a really tough balancing act.