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Author Topic: Reserves and Academy 2022/23  (Read 75491 times)

Offline Mister E

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Re: Reserves and Academy 2022/23
« Reply #300 on: January 11, 2023, 05:11:31 PM »
We need to get him out on loan so that we can get him ready for the first team. He's 18 in May so we should be making him part of the first team squad before he turns 19 if he's that good.


I could be wrong, but it doesn't feel like centre-back is a position where you get many very young players breaking through? Generally even the very good ones have hit 20 before they become first team ready, compared to more attacking players who can often appear at 16/17. 
Maybe it's the physical requirements of the role, or the fact that a mistake as a centre-back is often more costly than a mistake as a forward, but I'd be surprised to see an 18-year-old centre-back playing any meaningful part in the first team - injury crisis apart.  He looks a great prospect, but hopefully he'll get a loan next season and plenty of first team games at a decent level at 18/19, then perhaps be part of the squad when he's 19/20?
Or maybe I know fuck all and he's the next Gareth Barry who could look effortlessly comfortable in a premier league defence at 17?
John Terry, Stones, Gazza Bazza, Ferdinand, Saliba ... some examples of young-starting CB

Offline Dante Lavelli

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Re: Reserves and Academy 2022/23
« Reply #301 on: January 11, 2023, 09:34:02 PM »
Saliba had at least two season long loans before arsenal were prepared to trust him.  I’d be happy for Feeney to do similar if it means his mistakes are made away from the spotlight and he ultimately becomes a better player.

Offline rougegorge

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Re: Reserves and Academy 2022/23
« Reply #302 on: January 16, 2023, 05:34:29 PM »
The signing of Duran and the ongoing loans or selling of ex-Academy and younger players made me think about how few of our Academy players are making it to first team level.

I know that it's not straightforward for younger players to come through, but there has been a lack of success in recent years. Jacob Ramsey has made it, but then from our FA Youth Cup winners in 2021, Chukwuemeka is the only one who had any significant senior involvement, and it's quite possible that we won't see any of the others playing with any regularity for the first team. Kadan Young who's only 17 this week, may buck the trend.

I saw it mentioned on another thread that supporters tend to over-estimate our youngsters, and it seems to be the case that our development programme through to first team level isn't as fruitful as maybe it should be. We are not alone in this, but given the amount of investment and emphasis at that level, should we be expecting a bit more?

Offline Dante Lavelli

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Re: Reserves and Academy 2022/23
« Reply #303 on: January 16, 2023, 07:04:30 PM »
The chuk transfer probably paid the running costs of the youth system for a number of years, Add in Ramsey has saved us £XX then I reckon we are doing okay,

There’s a cluster of other players that could be sold for millions if we chose to too (Tim/KHH etc).

One player graduating each season would be a phenomenal result and we are not far off that.

Offline pablo_picasso

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Re: Reserves and Academy 2022/23
« Reply #304 on: January 16, 2023, 09:22:44 PM »
The signing of Duran and the ongoing loans or selling of ex-Academy and younger players made me think about how few of our Academy players are making it to first team level.

I know that it's not straightforward for younger players to come through, but there has been a lack of success in recent years. Jacob Ramsey has made it, but then from our FA Youth Cup winners in 2021, Chukwuemeka is the only one who had any significant senior involvement, and it's quite possible that we won't see any of the others playing with any regularity for the first team. Kadan Young who's only 17 this week, may buck the trend.

I saw it mentioned on another thread that supporters tend to over-estimate our youngsters, and it seems to be the case that our development programme through to first team level isn't as fruitful as maybe it should be. We are not alone in this, but given the amount of investment and emphasis at that level, should we be expecting a bit more?
Tim Iroegbunam & Aaron Ramsey will both make it into the first team over the next couple of years. The rest will mostly fall by the wayside with Kaine Kesler-Hayden a coin flip. In my humble opinion... After that we are looking at the likes of Josh Feeney, Kadan Young & Rory Wilson. As the years pass, I am thinking the quality we bring in will improve with the investments we are making & we will get one or two real gems... Time will tell.

Offline rougegorge

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Re: Reserves and Academy 2022/23
« Reply #305 on: January 16, 2023, 10:24:59 PM »
I do hope so although I wasn't really counting Ireogbunam as he didn't come through our academy.

I think for the investment and time spent nowadays on talented young players, that we, along with other Premier League clubs, should be expecting, rather than hoping, to produce more than one or two every few years.

Online FatSam

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Re: Reserves and Academy 2022/23
« Reply #306 on: January 16, 2023, 10:36:55 PM »
Terry, Stones, Gazza Bazza, Ferdinand, Saliba ... some examples of young-starting CB
The original poster is probably right. These players stand out because they were exceptional. Maldini was quite a good young player as well. Fofana was the other one that I was thinking of, bought by Leicester at 19 and thrown straight into the first team.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Reserves and Academy 2022/23
« Reply #307 on: January 16, 2023, 10:49:17 PM »
I do hope so although I wasn't really counting Ireogbunam as he didn't come through our academy.

I think for the investment and time spent nowadays on talented young players, that we, along with other Premier League clubs, should be expecting, rather than hoping, to produce more than one or two every few years.

The investment is very small compared to signing senior players, We've just spent more on a 19 year old than an entire year of the academy, selling Jack and chuk will have funded it for a decade, Ramsey will have saved us 30-40m in fees. If we have a player like that come through every 4-5 years then that's enough for the program to be worth it, add in people like Clark and Baker who did a job for a few years and then went for profits and our academy is one of the better ones in the league and we haven't really seen the benefit of the big investment yet.

Online FatSam

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Re: Reserves and Academy 2022/23
« Reply #308 on: January 16, 2023, 10:55:33 PM »
The signing of Duran and the ongoing loans or selling of ex-Academy and younger players made me think about how few of our Academy players are making it to first team
Yes, it would be interesting to understand whether our strategy of spending relatively big money on academy players has been paying-off. Some seem to be doing well, like Iroegbunam, but does it represent good value in the aggregate? Barry and Kesler-Hayden don’t seem to be particularly thriving, and Azaz is still only playing in the third tier at 22. I get confused about who is with the U18s, and who is with the U21s. I haven’t heard anything about Shakpoke for a while, but maybe he is still with the U18s.

Offline dcdavecollett

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Re: Reserves and Academy 2022/23
« Reply #309 on: January 17, 2023, 01:48:10 AM »
Shakpoke is injured and out for the rest of the season.

Offline Dante Lavelli

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Re: Reserves and Academy 2022/23
« Reply #310 on: January 17, 2023, 07:39:35 AM »
We should hopefully start seeing dividends from the youth investment in the next season or two, at this point we should reasonably be expecting a Tim or Feeney to be part of the squad.  Their inclusion saving us £10-30m depending on how much they play.  This is compounded by the improved training facilities which should attract better players and improving them all by a small percentage.

Arguably there was a 5-years void where Randy lost interest and the Dr didn’t have a clue, so the taps have only been turned back on since NSWE came along.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Reserves and Academy 2022/23
« Reply #311 on: January 17, 2023, 12:59:07 PM »
We should hopefully start seeing dividends from the youth investment in the next season or two, at this point we should reasonably be expecting a Tim or Feeney to be part of the squad.  Their inclusion saving us £10-30m depending on how much they play.  This is compounded by the improved training facilities which should attract better players and improving them all by a small percentage.

Arguably there was a 5-years void where Randy lost interest and the Dr didn’t have a clue, so the taps have only been turned back on since NSWE came along.

Yep, there was a big push on the youth side over the first 12 months when they came in but that will have been done with an expectation of around 5 years to see the impact of signing players at that level and a few more years on top to see the 'in house' players go up a level.

Young and O'Reilly seem to be the first 2 from the 'new' group that have come through from our youth ranks and push for the first team squad and both look like decent options. That we'vedeveloped a first teamer and a £20m player even during the fallow period is impressive and the 10 years before that clearly produced a lot of players who've either done well for us, made us decent money or gone on to have decent careers, which is why we're still one of the most productive academies in the Premier league era.

Offline OCD

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Re: Reserves and Academy 2022/23
« Reply #312 on: January 17, 2023, 01:41:50 PM »
That's for the older youth players. There will be 10-15 year olds that we signed and have worked with too who we will need to wait longer to see come through.

Offline Villa Lew

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Re: Reserves and Academy 2022/23
« Reply #313 on: January 17, 2023, 01:57:51 PM »
FA Youth Cup v Southampton KO 2pm

Offline Villa Lew

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