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Author Topic: Should I stay or should I go?  (Read 6806 times)

Online eamonn

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #150 on: January 14, 2022, 12:57:24 PM »
Is there any decent in-depth article about Liverpool's displacement of their neighbours that covers the whole story? I don't remember it generating much noise in the news...maybe cos it happened gradually ?

Offline Keeno

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #151 on: January 14, 2022, 01:02:56 PM »
Chelsea's ground is still traditional and fantastic (in my opinion) and no bigger that VP. 

Anything soulless about their success has nothing to do with Stamford Bridge.

Was about to mention this - them keeping their original, 40k-ish ground while upgrading the bits around the edges (on a piece of land just as small as VP) hasn't really held them back from winning things regularly, has it?

Online Clive W

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #152 on: January 14, 2022, 01:09:30 PM »
Is there any decent in-depth article about Liverpool's displacement of their neighbours that covers the whole story? I don't remember it generating much noise in the news...maybe cos it happened gradually ?

There was an awful lot of skullduggery and jiggery pokery

https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2013/may/06/anfield-liverpool-david-conn

Offline Pat Mustard

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #153 on: January 14, 2022, 01:11:45 PM »
Is there any decent in-depth article about Liverpool's displacement of their neighbours that covers the whole story? I don't remember it generating much noise in the news...maybe cos it happened gradually ?

This is an article from a few years back:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2013/may/06/anfield-liverpool-david-conn

On the Chelsea question, there are a few things to consider.  Firstly, because of where they are they are charging more than us by order of magnitude.  I haven't checked, but I'm sure their matchday income is something approaching 3 times ours even without a bigger ground.  Next, there is the obvious point that being owned by an oligarch offset the need to expand for a very long time.  Finally, and probably most relevantly, is that now they are finding that the size of Stamford Bridge is starting to hamstring them - compared to what Spurs, Arsenal and even West Ham are able to potentially generate, finding a solution to increasing the size of their stadium is becoming a much bigger concern.

Online paul_e

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #154 on: January 14, 2022, 01:19:38 PM »
Chelsea's ground is still traditional and fantastic (in my opinion) and no bigger that VP. 

Anything soulless about their success has nothing to do with Stamford Bridge.

Was about to mention this - them keeping their original, 40k-ish ground while upgrading the bits around the edges (on a piece of land just as small as VP) hasn't really held them back from winning things regularly, has it?

the difference in their ticket prices compared to ours is fucking huge though so I'm not sure they work all that well as an example.

Offline Keeno

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #155 on: January 14, 2022, 02:21:46 PM »
Chelsea's ground is still traditional and fantastic (in my opinion) and no bigger that VP. 

Anything soulless about their success has nothing to do with Stamford Bridge.

Was about to mention this - them keeping their original, 40k-ish ground while upgrading the bits around the edges (on a piece of land just as small as VP) hasn't really held them back from winning things regularly, has it?

the difference in their ticket prices compared to ours is fucking huge though so I'm not sure they work all that well as an example.

Gate revenue is not where PL clubs make any of their money nowadays though, so it certainly wouldn't be a thing holding back stadium redevelopment for us in comparison to them.

I think the point is more that a traditional style 40-50k capacity ground is still suitable for champions league/PL winning clubs - so there's no need for us to feel like we'd need to build a run of the mill Etihad bowl in order to feel part of that group.

Offline hipkiss92

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #156 on: January 14, 2022, 02:36:00 PM »
Copy the Holte at the Witton End as has been suggested on here a few times. You probably could get 14-15k with that design at that end.That gets you up to around 48-50k. I think that would do for the moment.

Is it feasible to do that over a season though and reduce the capacity so significantly?  Just think the Alexander Stadium development for the Commonwealth Games might just present a unique opportunity for an alternative venue while work on VP was done.

If you plan it right, you could re-build the North Stand in two halves. Take down the upper tier and facilities at the back during the season and build a new upper tier stand with corporate seating etc., then cordon off the lower tier and turnstiles on Witton Lane and do that during the summer. Limits how much capacity you lose during the season (which must be 6-7k at most in that stand anyway?)

Online Brend'Watkins

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #157 on: January 14, 2022, 02:50:04 PM »


The issue then is how do we get Villa Park significantly beyond 50k.  Even disregarding the transport issues, I don't see how we realistically can, given the constraints of the site.  I referred to what Liverpool have done to Anfield to get it up to 62k in another post.  What that doesn't say is the absolutely shitty, scandalous treatment of their neighbours that the club indulged in over the past 20 years to get to the stage where the redevelopment of their main stand was possible.  I'd rather Villa didn't contribute to the degradation of an entire neighbourhood and forcing people out of their homes just so we can add 10,000 seats.

Witton Lane becomes an underpass. 

Offline Pat Mustard

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #158 on: January 14, 2022, 02:51:16 PM »
Chelsea's ground is still traditional and fantastic (in my opinion) and no bigger that VP. 

Anything soulless about their success has nothing to do with Stamford Bridge.

Was about to mention this - them keeping their original, 40k-ish ground while upgrading the bits around the edges (on a piece of land just as small as VP) hasn't really held them back from winning things regularly, has it?

the difference in their ticket prices compared to ours is fucking huge though so I'm not sure they work all that well as an example.

Gate revenue is not where PL clubs make any of their money nowadays though, so it certainly wouldn't be a thing holding back stadium redevelopment for us in comparison to them.

I think the point is more that a traditional style 40-50k capacity ground is still suitable for champions league/PL winning clubs - so there's no need for us to feel like we'd need to build a run of the mill Etihad bowl in order to feel part of that group.

This isn't strictly true though.  Although TV money makes up the vast majority of income for most clubs, the fact that it is relatively evenly spread (at least for domestic football), means that to gain an advantage you have to generate income from elsewhere.  Aside from sponsorship and partners, matchday income is the biggest way of doing this.  To put it into perspective, Spurs and Arsenal can potentially generate nearly 100 million per season from matchday income, and Man Utd (and probably soon Liverpool) in excess of that - without looking too hard, that is roughly 5-6 times the amount we can generate.

I'm not saying that realistically we are going to match them for a host of reasons, however it's not unreasonable to assume that we could/should be doing much better than we are.  Long-term, the only way we can close that gap is either a full re-build of Villa Park (which is difficult for a host of reasons), or a move elsewhere which the original article also shows is not easy to do.

Offline Pat Mustard

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #159 on: January 14, 2022, 02:53:26 PM »


The issue then is how do we get Villa Park significantly beyond 50k.  Even disregarding the transport issues, I don't see how we realistically can, given the constraints of the site.  I referred to what Liverpool have done to Anfield to get it up to 62k in another post.  What that doesn't say is the absolutely shitty, scandalous treatment of their neighbours that the club indulged in over the past 20 years to get to the stage where the redevelopment of their main stand was possible.  I'd rather Villa didn't contribute to the degradation of an entire neighbourhood and forcing people out of their homes just so we can add 10,000 seats.

Witton Lane becomes an underpass.

Unless we can build a see-through stand that still won't work.

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #160 on: January 14, 2022, 02:58:45 PM »
Has any one identified any land in central B Ham which would enable a bigger ground and resolve the transport problems?

Based on this and other threads, regardless of the requirements for greater capacity the only way would appear to be the NEC  or somewhere similar.

Offline Ad@m

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #161 on: January 14, 2022, 03:04:14 PM »


The issue then is how do we get Villa Park significantly beyond 50k.  Even disregarding the transport issues, I don't see how we realistically can, given the constraints of the site.  I referred to what Liverpool have done to Anfield to get it up to 62k in another post.  What that doesn't say is the absolutely shitty, scandalous treatment of their neighbours that the club indulged in over the past 20 years to get to the stage where the redevelopment of their main stand was possible.  I'd rather Villa didn't contribute to the degradation of an entire neighbourhood and forcing people out of their homes just so we can add 10,000 seats.

Witton Lane becomes an underpass.

Unless we can build a see-through stand that still won't work.

Exactly.  Building over the road isn't necessarily a problem (although you'd need to consider right to light for the houses in the streets on that side given the ground is to the south of them) but it still wouldn't fix the size of the concourse which remains tiny unless the road is closed/diverted.

Online Brend'Watkins

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #162 on: January 14, 2022, 03:10:53 PM »


The issue then is how do we get Villa Park significantly beyond 50k.  Even disregarding the transport issues, I don't see how we realistically can, given the constraints of the site.  I referred to what Liverpool have done to Anfield to get it up to 62k in another post.  What that doesn't say is the absolutely shitty, scandalous treatment of their neighbours that the club indulged in over the past 20 years to get to the stage where the redevelopment of their main stand was possible.  I'd rather Villa didn't contribute to the degradation of an entire neighbourhood and forcing people out of their homes just so we can add 10,000 seats.

Witton Lane becomes an underpass.

Unless we can build a see-through stand that still won't work.

Increase the depth of the North Stand to similar to the Holte. Likewise the Witton Lane Stand. Maybe we need to dispense with the boxes in the North Stand to get us the extra 8,000 to get us to the 50,000.  Above all, we stay at Villa Park for the rest of my lifetime anyway.

Online LeeB

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #163 on: January 14, 2022, 03:11:40 PM »
In an ideal world, we'd rebuild the ground onsite but moving it back towards Witton which would give us more width to play with.

It would be possible if we had a decent local alternative to use in the meantime, but there you go.

Online trinityoap

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Re: Should I stay or should I go?
« Reply #164 on: January 14, 2022, 03:32:15 PM »
To help with transport problems we could have a big park and ride site. There is a lot of waste land at the bottom of Coventry Road  that could be used which only needs the demolition of a few old sheds.

 


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