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Author Topic: FFP  (Read 560392 times)

Offline IFWaters

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Re: FFP
« Reply #4920 on: July 05, 2025, 07:52:35 AM »
I've decided that all these financial rules have been misnamed. FFP, SCR whatever, it should be the KYP rules.

Know Your Place.

Offline andyh

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Re: FFP
« Reply #4921 on: July 05, 2025, 08:43:42 AM »
I presume that Chelsea must be in bigger violation of the rules given that their fine is heavier than ours.
Yet they have already spent ridiculous amounts on players this summer.

It now appears we need to sell players to the same value (or less) than those we bring in ?

The whole system is a bloody joke.



Online The Edge

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Re: FFP
« Reply #4922 on: July 05, 2025, 09:25:32 AM »
I've been out of the loop so just catching up. Did we sell the womens team to ourselves and if so for how much? And apparently we're selling the North Stand car park to ourselves according to my Villa hating nephew? That sounds like bollocks though tbh.

Online JUAN PABLO

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Re: FFP
« Reply #4923 on: July 05, 2025, 11:16:59 AM »
I've been out of the loop so just catching up. Did we sell the womens team to ourselves and if so for how much? And apparently we're selling the North Stand car park to ourselves according to my Villa hating nephew? That sounds like bollocks though tbh.

I think It was 55 million ..

Online Somniloquism

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Re: FFP
« Reply #4924 on: July 05, 2025, 11:46:20 AM »
Direct Villa specific agreements

https://editorial.uefa.com/resources/029b-1e280b615680-700e46bcfcfa-1000/aston_villa_summary_version_3-year_sa_20250704174251.pdf

Code: [Select]
• The Club agrees to be subject to a sporting restriction and, as a consequence, may not
register any new player on its List A to UEFA club competitions unless the List A Transfer
Balance is positive.
• The List A Transfer Balance is defined as the difference between the cost savings from
outgoing players (“Cost savings”) and the new costs from incoming players (“New costs”) at
any applicable deadline for the Club’s submission of its List A.
• The sporting restriction is foreseen as follows:
• It unconditionally applies in the 2025/26 season;
• It conditionally applies in the 2026/27 season, if the Club has a Football Earnings
deficit in the reporting period 2025;
• It conditionally applies in the 2027/28 season, if the Club exceeds the 2026 Target;
and
• It conditionally applies in the 2028/29 season if the Club exceeds the Final Target
by less than EUR 20 million.
• Should the Club exceed any Target of the Settlement by more than EUR 10 million, but less
than EUR 20 million, the limitation shall be more restrictive, as the calculated Cost savings
from outgoing players shall be reduced by 50% (i.e., the New costs from incoming players
will have to be less than 50% of the Cost savings from outgoing players).


As I mentioned in another thread, there is no mention on whether they are taking list A from last year or not. For example of how it might affect us, we didn't have Malen on last years list and he cost £20 mil plus wages, but Rashford and Asensio only cost wages. Does their wage savings mean we can add Malen?
« Last Edit: July 05, 2025, 11:49:28 AM by Somniloquism »

Offline SaddVillan

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Re: FFP
« Reply #4925 on: July 05, 2025, 11:52:19 AM »
A few musings on PSR/FFP, SCR and the increasing numbers of clubs in the Prem and beyond that are being acquired by American individuals and businesses.

In the States, NFL, MLB, NHL and the NBA operate in pretty closed systems. There's no relegation, squad numbers are limited and they all have salary caps  and they don't pay transfer fees.

The draft system is designed to even out competitive advantage with the aim of having the most number of teams competing for play-off places for as long as possible to drive up spectator and media interest in the competitions, which in turn generates more income.

All merch income is pooled as is tv income. The only financial differentiator between clubs is gate receipts.

Thr owners know that there's only one prize per sport per season - so ultimately they're in it for the money. (The Glazers/Kroenke have brought this attitude to ManU/Arsenal - as long as the money rolls in, they're not actually bothered about not winning trophies).

Anyway PSR/SCR are designed to even out competition, but they clearly give huge advantages to those clubs with the biggest revenues- the likes of Villa, Toon, Everton, Athletic, Athletico, Dortmund, Leverkusen, Marseille, etc. are always going to be handicapped.

How long will it be, before the American owners across Europe start lobbying for a change to PSR and SCR and ask for SCR to be not a percentage of turnover, but a fixed amount of Euros/Pounds and for squad numbers to be limited - at senior and U21/U18 levels? Who knows, they might even decide to limit the level of borrowings?

Several consequences if this came to fruition:

Talent would be spread more evenly because clubs would have finite spending limits
It would stop clubs "buying" success
Competitive advantage would be linked to better scouting/recruitment/coaching
The owners would be able to make more money (and this is, I reckon  is the only real driver by which these changes might come about).

A daydream?

For sure - but it would be nice to.imagine it happening.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2025, 11:57:20 AM by SaddVillan »

Online kippaxvilla2

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Re: FFP
« Reply #4926 on: July 05, 2025, 12:44:26 PM »
Actually thinking about it - it must mean the loss of Rashford and Asensio's wages can be lost - that is the thick end of £400k per week.  We could nick Kyogo from the noses.  He would be cheaper.

Online Sexual Ealing

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Re: FFP
« Reply #4927 on: July 05, 2025, 05:03:17 PM »
Here is a breakdown of Chelsea's position, which isn't the same as ours, and I stopped reading long before the end but it might mean something to someone.

Quote
slbsn
@slbsn
🤓 EXPLAINED: What Chelsea have agreed to by way of UEFA restrictions – tougher, longer and riskier than Villa. Ban in play in 2030 (🤪). Chelsea benefit from a self declared forthcoming FY2026 limit.

The simplified release of Chelsea’s UEFA settlement agreement isn’t simple at all but makes clear that the club has agreed to a four-year regime of financial constraints following a significant breach of the Football Earnings rule.

Chelsea have accepted that not only did they breach for the year ended 30 June 2024 but will, once audited and published, breach for 30 June 2025. In that context, the sanctions, although the biggest in UEFA history, look modest.

As with Aston Villa, UEFA’s Financial Sustainability Regulations (FSR) are now being partly enforced through the Football Earnings Rule UEFA’s answer to the Premier League’s PSR. But Chelsea’s breach was broader, deeper, and attracted a longer sanction window.

For those still focused on UEFA’s squad cost ratio (a soft salary cap), these Chelsea sanctions relate to the Football Earnings rule. This rule limits cumulative adjusted losses, disallows profits from related-party deals and asset sales, and introduces real sporting penalties including exclusion from European competitions.

UEFA allows certain deductions from operating losses, including:

- Youth, women’s and community football (NB: amazingly despite selling the women's team my understanding is that it remains part of the UEFA equation (known as the reporting perimeter)
- Stadium/training capex amortisation
- Non-cash charges like depreciation and player amortisation

For Chelsea these can total around €60m per annum.

These deductions mean headline (P&L) losses can be far higher than the Football Earnings cap but Chelsea are heavily exposed because their accounts include large related-party gains which UEFA has stripped out.

Chelsea’s agreement is longer than Villa’s (four years vs three), with higher fines, harsher restrictions, and two unconditional years of UEFA squad registration restrictions.

I concentrate here on the financial caps and the consequences of breach:

1⃣Confusingly named 2025 Target – Year ending 30 June 2026 (FY2026)
Cap: Whatever Chelsea submitted as the forecast loss in their business plan, is accepted by UEFA as their FY2026 limit. This figure has not been published but it is widely understood Chelsea were projecting a material loss.

However, the settlement states that this number now serves as the hard cap — and will be used to judge compliance for FY2026.

❌ If somehow Chelsea breach their own self stated cap they will pay up to €20m additional fine (on top of the €20m unconditional fine already payable).
❌❌If (somehow) they exceed the self stated cap by more than €20m, Chelsea face termination of the settlement agreement and a UEFA competition ban.

UEFA will not accept any deals like hotels or women’s team sale profits and will adjust for swaps and related party (say Strasbourg) deals. That means Chelsea’s UEFA Football Earnings deficit is significantly worse than the UK accounts imply.

2⃣Confusingly named 2026 Target – Year ending 30 June 2027 (FY2027)
Cap: €5m, extendable to €65m only if covered in full by equity contribution.

But the allowables such as youth, women's and community football and stadium/training capex amortisation will adjust the cap up to, in effect, an allowable £110m loss excluding profits from the sale of the Women's team or other tangible assets.

❌ If the FY2027 loss exceeds €65m: they will pay up to a €20m additional fine.
❌❌If the loss exceeds €85m+ this will lead to an automatic ban from UEFA and a ripping up of the settlement agreement.

3⃣Confusingly named 2027 Target – Year ending 30 June 2028 (FY2028)
Cap: €0m – a full break-even year but extendable as below.

Only if Chelsea “overperform” in FY2027 (i.e. stay well below the €65m ceiling) can this cap be increased — and then only up to a combined €60m for FY2027 + FY2028. That means if Chelsea lose €50m in FY2027, they may be allowed to lose €10m in FY2028.

But if they breach FY2027 by more than €55m, the FY2028 cap becomes a hard €0m and the risk of cumulative failure becomes serious.

As before:
❌ If in FY2028 Chelsea breach this limit, they will pay up to a €20m additional fine.
❌❌If the loss exceeds this limit plus €20m, this will lead to an automatic ban from UEFA.

4⃣ Final Target - Year ending 30 June 2029 (FY2029)
By the end of FY2029 and therefore for assessment in Spring 2030 (TWENTY THIRTY!), Chelsea must have demonstrated full compliance with UEFA’s Football Earnings rule- not just for one year, but on a cumulative three-year basis (ie testing FY2027, FY2028 and FY2029).

This is the culmination of the 4-year Settlement Agreement signed with UEFA.  UEFA’s final test isn’t based on a single season, it reverts to the 3 year test (like PSR). Chelsea will be required to meet the current €60m, 3 year cap that all other qualifiers will have to meet every season. This settlement gives Chelsea breathing space for the next 3 years including a year where they are being tested vs their own self set limit.

❌ If Chelsea breach this final limit they trigger an extra (up to) €20m fine.

❌❌If Chelsea makes losses over this limit plus €20m ie €80m on total after allowables, UEFA will terminate the agreement and ban Chelsea from European competition in 2030/31  season 🤣🤪.

But to breach the 3 year losses for FY2027, FY2028 and FY2029 would translate to a P&L loss before allowables of something like €280m-300m (3x €60-70m plus €80m). This should be achievable by Chelsea if they eventually stop buying players. Either way, it is so far into the future that they will not worry too much about it now.

https://x.com/slbsn/status/1941521456938012936

Online Toronto Villa

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Re: FFP
« Reply #4928 on: July 05, 2025, 05:09:52 PM »
Chelsea have made something like £55M from the Club World Cup.

Offline Dante Lavelli

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Re: FFP
« Reply #4929 on: July 05, 2025, 05:29:36 PM »
Chelsea have made something like £55M from the Club World Cup.

Let’s hope it knackers out all the teams involved and they have shocking seasons.

Online Somniloquism

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Re: FFP
« Reply #4930 on: July 05, 2025, 05:32:33 PM »
Seems they are buying a new team for the new season anyway. (albeit some have also played in the CWC.)

Offline SaddVillan

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Re: FFP
« Reply #4931 on: July 05, 2025, 05:53:44 PM »
Seems they are buying a new team for the new season anyway. (albeit some have also played in the CWC.)

The Premier League website lists 42 players in their first team squad.


Offline placeforparks

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Re: FFP
« Reply #4932 on: July 07, 2025, 10:27:44 AM »
Chelsea have made something like £55M from the Club World Cup.

Let’s hope it knackers out all the teams involved and they have shocking seasons.

pep has already said that he thinks his squad will struggle in december/jan on account of this competition and what it has done for their pre-season.

that's not him getting excuses in early, i think that is a genuine concern for his players welfare. and then a potentially really draining world cup in summer 2026.

Offline algy

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Re: FFP
« Reply #4933 on: July 07, 2025, 10:31:57 AM »
Chelsea have made something like £55M from the Club World Cup.

Let’s hope it knackers out all the teams involved and they have shocking seasons.

pep has already said that he thinks his squad will struggle in december/jan on account of this competition and what it has done for their pre-season.

that's not him getting excuses in early, i think that is a genuine concern for his players welfare. and then a potentially really draining world cup in summer 2026.
Yeah, I'd be inclined to agree with Guardiola there.  I think the intensity that football is played at now, the quantity of games, ... I don't think it's at all healthy or sensible for the players involved. 

Online Dave

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Re: FFP
« Reply #4934 on: July 07, 2025, 10:51:16 AM »
Chelsea have made something like £55M from the Club World Cup.

Let’s hope it knackers out all the teams involved and they have shocking seasons.

pep has already said that he thinks his squad will struggle in december/jan on account of this competition and what it has done for their pre-season.

that's not him getting excuses in early, i think that is a genuine concern for his players welfare. and then a potentially really draining world cup in summer 2026.

There was nothing stopping him from sending the players who played through the end of last season off on holiday and using the likes of Grealish, Bobb, Reis, Khusanov, McAtee, Rodri etc.

They have big squads for this reason. The whiny little bell-end.

 


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