Aston Villa 2-0 Newcastle post match thread

[Dick Edwards]

Guazan was mostly awful. Couple of good saves here and there, but he certainly was never top drawer. His career trajectory after leaving us has been strictly down hill, and he's still only 36.

Agreed. Apart from a flurry of penalty saves he was absolute shit in a Villa shirt.

Me too, pile of shite.

His Villa career may have started and ended disappointingly but Guzan did have a golden period and kept us in the Premier League one season with some vital saves. One that stands out was against QPR at the Holte End in a relegation six pointer. A Chris Samba header I think. It was an incredible save. That save ironically was in the same game that an equally brilliant free kick winner was scored by the much maligned Charles N'Zogbia.

[SashasGrandad]

Match of the Day making a complete horlicks of Ollie's goal tonight.

Ollie was onside because he was behind the ball when it was played.

They're trying to make out we've benefited from the same rule we were robbed on against Man City when it's got nothing to do with it!

Very True - why can't so called experts realise this?

[Lastfootstamper]

Watching the second goal again, Newcastle had every player in their box at the moment Traore shot. Eleven players failing to come even remotely close to laying a glove on either Grealish having two touches and Traore one. They look fooked.

Carragher laboured the point that the Barcodes were dreadful at closing down their opponents.

It becomes something a manager can point to as unquestionable commitment from his players when they're all in there 'scrapping', when in truth it's a lack of any tactical plan and a collective fear of taking individual responsibility.

[Big Ming]

Guzan was a good shot stopper for a period of time but his domination in the air was poor for most of the time and with the ball at his feet, he was poor all of the time.  Goalkeeping has changed completely over the years with the changes in rules.  Also, the changes in balls has changed the way keepers save shots.

The days of seeing Colin Withers to now are light years apart.  Still remember the days when it was unusual to see a keeper being able to kick the ball much further than the halfway line and that was from hand.  Keepers were a lot tougher as they were less protected by the rules and the interpreting of the rules but keepers these days are far fitter and more agile.

I like Martinez as he is big, strong and agile.  Probably not the best in any of those categories but is very good in each.  He reminds me more of an older style keeper than the modern type.  It could be due to being from South America.

Old timer, like you.

Martinez commands his area and distributes the football better than any I have ever seen.

[dicedlam]

Last night was the first time in a good while that I did not want to put my foot through the telly with some of the decisions going against of late. An easy, no-nonsense, straight forward win.

Martinez - again assured and confident. The back four must love having such a great keeper behind them. 8/10

Cash - I was a little puzzled to why we needed to go out and buy yet another right-back at the beginning of the season, but Matty Cash is head and shoulders above what we have already. Is there a better right back in England on present form? 8/10

Konsa - He grows more and more assured with every game. Excellent again last night and surely he must make Southgate's squad soon. A great stat from one of the commentators last night was Ezri has only been beaten once on a one on one situation all season. No other defender has done that. 9/10

Mings - Better. I still think he is prone to lapses in concentration, however, last night he seemed to put his foot through the ball more often whenever he found himself in a tight situation. I think one of his many strong points is his vocal support to the back four. 7/10

Targett - Matty mk2 has been outstanding this season.
I have to be honest, I wanted us to be rid of him but the change around in performances have been astounding. Again, if he keeps playing like he is it is only a matter of time that Southgate has got to take notice. 8/10

Nakamba - I thought he was excellent last night and my MOTM.. Composed on the ball and kept it very simple. He offered himself up confidently to receive the ball from the back four very much in the same vein as Dougie does and showed great composure with it. 9/10

Luiz - Tremendous player and if what was said last night by one of the pundits that Pep looks like not taking up the option to take him back to Man City, then all the better for us. 8/10

Grealish - As expected from Jack, he showed why he is top of the leader board for assists this season.
I thought he had one of his quieter games last night, however, he still showed moments of what a genuine world-class player he has become.
Jack does need to cut out the petulant little outbursts he seems to have in him though when things are not going his way. last night's example was retaliating after the defender took him down, he sort of pushed the player in the back when he was on the floor. Because of who he is, this will get him into trouble more often than not. 8/10

Barkley - Still thought he looked a little bit rusty but nowhere near as bad as some are making him out to be. A great foil for Jack and his presence in the team will only help Ollie, in the long run, get more goals. 7/10

Traore - Seems to be gaining more confidence the more games he plays, however, he could be better at tracking back. I think Trez is more ideally suited on the right for aways games unless Bert improves this part of his game. 8/10

Watkins - As I have said before, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that Ollie is going to become one hell of a player. On his showing to date, our record signing is looking like a bit of a bargain. 9/10

Subs - El Goalzi 7/10. Trez 7/10, Ramsey 7/10

Dean and the coaching staff have worked tremendously hard to turn around a team that was relegation certs not twelve months ago to a side that now looks like they will be extremely disappointed if they do not qualify for Europe.

#UTV!

[ktvillan]

Even if Ollie wasn't behind the defender (he looked offside to me to be honest) he still ended up onside because he didn't challenge the defender, and being further away than the defender from the player crossing the ball, it couldn't be argued that he was interfering with him or blocking his view. So unlike midweek, the decision tonight was spot on, as the defender played the ball to him.

If Rodri had stayed 6 feet away from Mings last week, and Mings had given the ball to him, Rodri would have been onside. If Watkins had tried to tackle Schär, he'd have been offside, as Rodri should have been judged to be last match.

this is absolutely correct. Why are people having trouble understanding this it is clear in black and white. No need for interpretation or further clarification.

It absolutely isn't.

The only reason that Newcastle defender desperately threw himself at the cross was because he knew Ollie was behind him. If that's not interfering with play we might as well as go home.

The actual fact was Ollie just wasn't offside, at all, because he was behind the ball when it was played. It's pretty much the most basic element of the offside rule.

If Watkins had not been behind the ball when it was kicked, he should have been offside.

The Offsite rule states A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent. A ‘save’ is when a player stops, or attempts to stop, a ball which is going into or very close to the goal with any part of the body except the hands/arms (unless the goalkeeper within the penalty area)

The defender did not know that Watkins was onside or offside and had to play the ball to try and prevent Watkins scoring.  Watkins would have been gaining an advantage.  In a similar way, Rodri should have been offside.  Both are different to a defender making a back pass that goes to the attacker, for which the rule (I believe) was intended.

Interpretation of the rules are made up by officials, pundits and other 'experts' as they go along.  I think the FA should come out with a detailed explanation of each rule with as many different examples of each situation and publish videos of each that football from top to bottom could learn from.

But Schar's touch wasn't a save was it? It was an interception, or an attempted interception.  Before that the ball was certainly not going in the goal and I wouldn't say it was going close to the goal either as it was played across, not towards the goal.  Therefore that bit of the law wouldn't apply.  I'd say Watkins was behind the ball anyway, but even if he wasn't, this was an incident where the rule used (incorrectly) against us at Man City would apply, because Watkins received the ball, he didn't challenge for it or interfere with the opponent's ability to play the ball. 

One other thing about the offside law - it mentions head, body or feet, but nothing about other parts of the leg such as knee or any part of the arm.  Would they count knees as pat of the body?     

[Allan C]

Guzan was a good shot stopper for a period of time but his domination in the air was poor for most of the time and with the ball at his feet, he was poor all of the time.  Goalkeeping has changed completely over the years with the changes in rules.  Also, the changes in balls has changed the way keepers save shots.

The days of seeing Colin Withers to now are light years apart.  Still remember the days when it was unusual to see a keeper being able to kick the ball much further than the halfway line and that was from hand.  Keepers were a lot tougher as they were less protected by the rules and the interpreting of the rules but keepers these days are far fitter and more agile.

I like Martinez as he is big, strong and agile.  Probably not the best in any of those categories but is very good in each.  He reminds me more of an older style keeper than the modern type.  It could be due to being from South America.

My first keeper was John Dunn (?) without checking the records but Jim Coombs was my favourite. He also played cricket which I thought was great. Jimmy Rimmer was a fabulous keeper as was Spink and Bossy. Martinez gives me the most confidence though, the first proper keeper we’ve had in years

[Big Ming]

Last night was the first time in a good while that I did not want to put my foot through the telly with some of the decisions going against of late. An easy, no-nonsense, straight forward win.

Martinez - again assured and confident. The back four must love having such a great keeper behind them. 8/10

Cash - I was a little puzzled to why we needed to go out and buy yet another right-back at the beginning of the season, but Matty Cash is head and shoulders above what we have already. Is there a better right back in England on present form? 8/10

Konsa - He grows more and more assured with every game. Excellent again last night and surely he must make Southgate's squad soon. A great stat from one of the commentators last night was Ezri has only been beaten once on a one on one situation all season. No other defender has done that. 9/10

Mings - Better. I still think he is prone to lapses in concentration, however, last night he seemed to put his foot through the ball more often whenever he found himself in a tight situation. I think one of his many strong points is his vocal support to the back four. 7/10

Targett - Matty mk2 has been outstanding this season.
I have to be honest, I wanted us to be rid of him but the change around in performances have been astounding. Again, if he keeps playing like he is it is only a matter of time that Southgate has got to take notice. 8/10

Nakamba - I thought he was excellent last night and my MOTM.. Composed on the ball and kept it very simple. He offered himself up confidently to receive the ball from the back four very much in the same vein as Dougie does and showed great composure with it. 9/10

Luiz - Tremendous player and if what was said last night by one of the pundits that Pep looks like not taking up the option to take him back to Man City, then all the better for us. 8/10

Grealish - As expected from Jack, he showed why he is top of the leader board for assists this season.
I thought he had one of his quieter games last night, however, he still showed moments of what a genuine world-class player he has become.
Jack does need to cut out the petulant little outbursts he seems to have in him though when things are not going his way. last night's example was retaliating after the defender took him down, he sort of pushed the player in the back when he was on the floor. Because of who he is, this will get him into trouble more often than not. 8/10

Barkley - Still thought he looked a little bit rusty but nowhere near as bad as some are making him out to be. A great foil for Jack and his presence in the team will only help Ollie, in the long run, get more goals. 7/10

Traore - Seems to be gaining more confidence the more games he plays, however, he could be better at tracking back. I think Trez is more ideally suited on the right for aways games unless Bert improves this part of his game. 8/10

Watkins - As I have said before, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that Ollie is going to become one hell of a player. On his showing to date, our record signing is looking like a bit of a bargain. 9/10

Subs - El Goalzi 7/10. Trez 7/10, Ramsey 7/10

Dean and the coaching staff have worked tremendously hard to turn around a team that was relegation certs not twelve months ago to a side that now looks like they will be extremely disappointed if they do not qualify for Europe.

#UTV!

Really, Trez should have made it three - nil with the last kick of the game.

Another day, that costs us a point or points. He needs to finish better.

[brontebilly]

Watching the second goal again, Newcastle had every player in their box at the moment Traore shot. Eleven players failing to come even remotely close to laying a glove on either Grealish having two touches and Traore one. They look fooked.

Carragher laboured the point that the Barcodes were dreadful at closing down their opponents.

Shelvey in particular was an absolute joke I thought yesterday. Didn't try a leg without the ball.Carragher made reference to him not wanting to run out to the wings to make a tackle for the first goal. If a central midfielder in this division doesn't want to run or tackle then he shouldn't be on the pitch. Bruce somehow gave him 90 minutes.

Jeff Hendrick was dreadful too, a nothing player. From an Irish perspective he was our best player in Euro 2016 but has been dire for club and country since. If they keep those two as a centre midfield pair they will go down for sure. Was so easy for our midfielders to get turned on the ball under zero pressure throughout.

Remind me of the likes of KEA, Holman, Westwood, Ireland etc that we used have in the horrible McLeish/Lambert days.

[Marlon From Bearwood]

Have to say I’m pretty surprised by people on this thread saying that Bruce would make a good pundit. If you’re looking for tired, outdated cliches with paint-by-numbers, meaningless ramblings then yeah, he’d be your man.

If you’re looking for insightful tactical analysis (as per the best modern day pundits) then I don’t think Steve Bruce inhabits such a world.

[Toronto Villa]

The state of Molineux Mix, FFS

We're having our "best season ever". How many times have they finished above us in the last 50 years?

That’s 7 points ahead and two games in hand you utter bell end.

[pauliewalnuts]

I genuinely think Newcastle were so piss poor last night, we'd have won that game if we'd fielded the Academy kids who played against Liverpool.

What i liked was the fact we cruised through that match without ever getting out of first gear. It was so, so easy, we just did what we needed to do, in a period where we're playing a lot of football and carrying players who have just had covid.

[David_Nab]

Cruised to a win , 2nd half we over played as it was so easy.

Marv did very well but thats been a recurring theme , any player coming in Hause,AEG have all done well.In Jack ,Bert,AEG and Trez we have 4 players who can all score and create it gives us alot of options going forward.

Konsa tough not that tested was a rock , if Mings is England quality he is as well

[Bobby Boy]

Guazan was mostly awful. Couple of good saves here and there, but he certainly was never top drawer. His career trajectory after leaving us has been strictly down hill, and he's still only 36.

Agreed. Apart from a flurry of penalty saves he was absolute shit in a Villa shirt.

Well, he was named player of the season in the season that Benteke scored 19 league goals for us. It was a poor season for us generally sure but he was excellent in it.

[CT Villan]

As easy a game as we'll have. We are electric going forward.

My MOTM was Marv.

Targett, Konsa and Traore also excellent. Nice to see Trez back too.

Someone should tell Jack that he'd be feeling like that most weeks if he ever moves to Utd or City.