Emi Martinez

[Rudy Can't Fail]

I thought Martinez had a poor game - his distribution was way off.  But that doesn't mean he's suddenly a shit keeper and we should sell him.

I've not got a problem with him going up for the corner.  Sometimes it pays off - it's a hail Mary.

Emery was very that he won’t be doing it again.

He's an idiot then. It was the 98th minute, we're 3-2 down, sure Emi's unlikely to score but he can add a bit of chaos in the box and maybe somebody else might score. I'm really struggling to understand why he's making such a big fuss over nothing. The media have picked up on it accusing him of throwing Emi under the bus etc. It's all very Steven Gerrard.

[Bent Neilsens Screamer]

I think what with Emi’s interview from a few weeks back and now this disagreement with Unai greatly increases the chance of him leaving over the summer. I’d be very surprised if he’s with us come the opening game of next season.

[Smithy]

I thought Martinez had a poor game - his distribution was way off.  But that doesn't mean he's suddenly a shit keeper and we should sell him.

I've not got a problem with him going up for the corner.  Sometimes it pays off - it's a hail Mary.

Emery was very that he won’t be doing it again.

He's an idiot then. It was the 98th minute, we're 3-2 down, sure Emi's unlikely to score but he can add a bit of chaos in the box and maybe somebody else might score. I'm really struggling to understand why he's making such a big fuss over nothing. The media have picked up on it accusing him of throwing Emi under the bus etc. It's all very Steven Gerrard.

Our goal difference is at LEAST 10 worse than every team above us. And so goal difference could well cost us a place (or more) in the league come May. As others have said, it's SO rare that goalie going up actually results in a goal (not necessarily from them scoring it), that it should only be an option if the goal has huge positive consequences, and also negligible negative consequences if you lose another goal i.e. You're about to go out of a cup, or it's the final couple of games in the season and you need the point(s) to avoid relegation or to get a place in Europe.  A league game in Feb simply doesn't qualify, as losing a goal has consequences.

We lost 2-1 to Arsenal earlier in the season, but I don't remember Emi going up for a set-piece late in that game? If the third goal wasn't an OG I don't think he goes up - it was a rush of blood to the head based on him feeling responsible for us being behind against his old club.

It won't happen again, I'm sure of that.

[Flamingo Lane]

My objection to Martinez going up for a late corner is less about the risk of being caught out by a breakaway, and much more to do with the fact that a goalie up for a corner is usually a bull in a China shop hindrance to the attacking team, and not actually a help.

[brontebilly]

I thought Martinez had a poor game - his distribution was way off.  But that doesn't mean he's suddenly a shit keeper and we should sell him.

I've not got a problem with him going up for the corner.  Sometimes it pays off - it's a hail Mary.

Emery was very that he won’t be doing it again.

Emery was fuming but it's hard to make any kind of conclusion based on his interviews, even journos are speculating somewhat as to what he is really trying to say.

To speculate myself, I don't think all is well between Emery and Martinez anyway. Might even pre date Villa, the Cutler departure (unnecessary for me), delay coming back from the WC that saw the hapless Olsen selected at Spurs, Martinez interview last week and yesterday. There really is no problem with Martinez going up at the end. I find it strange that Emery seemed to focus on that.

But Martinez has become a tactical problem with not releasing the ball quickly, I think that's what the protagonist comments from Emery allude to. I don't even mind the ball going out of play the odd time but he needs to release it quicker like to Kamara for our second goal. When he delays, it let's the opposition get set and we only have Watkins to aim for. With the likes of Luiz and Kamara, we should be playing quickly through the lines at every opportunity. Emery might be using the irrelevant fourth goal to lay down the law with Martinez about who is in charge of tactics with and without the ball. Like he did at Soton, I think Martinez starting position behind a high defensive line needs to be at the edge of our box.

[Matt C]

I took Emery’s comments to suggest more about control and discipline rather than the actual act of going up for the corner per se. He wants players to stick to the plan and follow his instructions and he’s using this season to establish those who can and those who cannot.

None of this changes the fact I expect Martinez to be off in the summer. We’ve seen this movie plenty of times before - player does well, goes on international duty, head turned, carefully timed media interview hinting at CL football… we all know what happens next.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

I thought Martinez had a poor game - his distribution was way off.  But that doesn't mean he's suddenly a shit keeper and we should sell him.

I've not got a problem with him going up for the corner.  Sometimes it pays off - it's a hail Mary.

Emery was very that he won’t be doing it again.

He's an idiot then. It was the 98th minute, we're 3-2 down, sure Emi's unlikely to score but he can add a bit of chaos in the box and maybe somebody else might score. I'm really struggling to understand why he's making such a big fuss over nothing. The media have picked up on it accusing him of throwing Emi under the bus etc. It's all very Steven Gerrard.

Our goal difference is at LEAST 10 worse than every team above us. And so goal difference could well cost us a place (or more) in the league come May. As others have said, it's SO rare that goalie going up actually results in a goal (not necessarily from them scoring it), that it should only be an option if the goal has huge positive consequences, and also negligible negative consequences if you lose another goal i.e. You're about to go out of a cup, or it's the final couple of games in the season and you need the point(s) to avoid relegation or to get a place in Europe.  A league game in Feb simply doesn't qualify, as losing a goal has consequences.

We lost 2-1 to Arsenal earlier in the season, but I don't remember Emi going up for a set-piece late in that game? If the third goal wasn't an OG I don't think he goes up - it was a rush of blood to the head based on him feeling responsible for us being behind against his old club.

It won't happen again, I'm sure of that.

Left with a choice of potentially getting a point or having no points and one additional goal in the minus column, I know what I'd choose. When you factor in the timing, a pissed off, emotional Emi or not, he made the right decision. Emery had so much to comment on about the game especially their third goal but he decided to be ridiculously petty instead. Each to their own.

Agree it won't happen again, more's the pity.

[Smithy]

I thought Martinez had a poor game - his distribution was way off.  But that doesn't mean he's suddenly a shit keeper and we should sell him.

I've not got a problem with him going up for the corner.  Sometimes it pays off - it's a hail Mary.

Emery was very that he won’t be doing it again.

He's an idiot then. It was the 98th minute, we're 3-2 down, sure Emi's unlikely to score but he can add a bit of chaos in the box and maybe somebody else might score. I'm really struggling to understand why he's making such a big fuss over nothing. The media have picked up on it accusing him of throwing Emi under the bus etc. It's all very Steven Gerrard.

Our goal difference is at LEAST 10 worse than every team above us. And so goal difference could well cost us a place (or more) in the league come May. As others have said, it's SO rare that goalie going up actually results in a goal (not necessarily from them scoring it), that it should only be an option if the goal has huge positive consequences, and also negligible negative consequences if you lose another goal i.e. You're about to go out of a cup, or it's the final couple of games in the season and you need the point(s) to avoid relegation or to get a place in Europe.  A league game in Feb simply doesn't qualify, as losing a goal has consequences.

We lost 2-1 to Arsenal earlier in the season, but I don't remember Emi going up for a set-piece late in that game? If the third goal wasn't an OG I don't think he goes up - it was a rush of blood to the head based on him feeling responsible for us being behind against his old club.

It won't happen again, I'm sure of that.

Left with a choice of potentially getting a point or having no points and one additional goal in the minus column, I know what I'd choose. When you factor in the timing, a pissed off, emotional Emi or not, he made the right decision. Emery had so much to comment on about the game especially their third goal but he decided to be ridiculously petty instead. Each to their own.

Agree it won't happen again, more's the pity.

He didn't make the right decision though. We didn't score, and we immediately conceded. So it was the wrong decision. As I said above, sending the goalie up is an act of desperation, and ONLY makes sense if the rewards for a single goal FAR exceed the costs of conceding another one.  A league game for a mid-table team in Feb simply doesn't qualify.

Games are lost by the odd goal dozens of times every single weekend up and down the county, and do you know how many times the keeper goes up in the last couple of minutes? It's practically zero, because in 95% of cases the potential rewards do not outweigh the potential risks.

If a goal in the 93rd minute would get us into Europe in our last game of the season, then by all means, send in the entire cavalry.  But when you're 1-down in Feb to the league leaders? Nah.

[Bully2345]

Lineker on MOTD also agrees with Emery in that they get in the way and he'd rather have the space than a keeper trying to cause chaos.

We also pay a set piece coach (whether he's effective or not is a differen argument) who has survived three managers and we toss away a corner for a keeper to run up and get in the way.

[Risso]

Lineker on MOTD also agrees with Emery in that they get in the way and he'd rather have the space than a keeper trying to cause chaos.

We also pay a set piece coach (whether he's effective or not is a differen argument) who has survived three managers and we toss away a corner for a keeper to run up and get in the way.

As well as conceding from corner kicks on a depressingly frequent basis. I don't get it, for three managers now we've been shite at both defending and attacking set pieces, yet that shaggy-haired chancer is still the one coach up and down the technical area all game.

[Bully2345]

Lineker on MOTD also agrees with Emery in that they get in the way and he'd rather have the space than a keeper trying to cause chaos.

We also pay a set piece coach (whether he's effective or not is a differen argument) who has survived three managers and we toss away a corner for a keeper to run up and get in the way.

As well as conceding from corner kicks on a depressingly frequent basis. I don't get it, for three managers now we've been shite at both defending and attacking set pieces, yet that shaggy-haired chancer is still the one coach up and down the technical area all game.

As I said, his effectiveness is a different argument. While he's employed, they should be carrying out set piece tactics in the same way as you would normally as his job is to come up with a method that gives us the best chance of scoring. Instead, we threw it all away and went for the Hail Mary.

As Matt C says, he wants a culture of sticking to the plan, not making it up on the spot

[aj2k77]

I'd like to hear Footy-Villa's theory on the set piece coach. I'd also like some analysis of him. Footy, are you up to the task?

[Rudy Can't Fail]

I thought Martinez had a poor game - his distribution was way off.  But that doesn't mean he's suddenly a shit keeper and we should sell him.

I've not got a problem with him going up for the corner.  Sometimes it pays off - it's a hail Mary.

Emery was very that he won’t be doing it again.

He's an idiot then. It was the 98th minute, we're 3-2 down, sure Emi's unlikely to score but he can add a bit of chaos in the box and maybe somebody else might score. I'm really struggling to understand why he's making such a big fuss over nothing. The media have picked up on it accusing him of throwing Emi under the bus etc. It's all very Steven Gerrard.

Our goal difference is at LEAST 10 worse than every team above us. And so goal difference could well cost us a place (or more) in the league come May. As others have said, it's SO rare that goalie going up actually results in a goal (not necessarily from them scoring it), that it should only be an option if the goal has huge positive consequences, and also negligible negative consequences if you lose another goal i.e. You're about to go out of a cup, or it's the final couple of games in the season and you need the point(s) to avoid relegation or to get a place in Europe.  A league game in Feb simply doesn't qualify, as losing a goal has consequences.

We lost 2-1 to Arsenal earlier in the season, but I don't remember Emi going up for a set-piece late in that game? If the third goal wasn't an OG I don't think he goes up - it was a rush of blood to the head based on him feeling responsible for us being behind against his old club.

It won't happen again, I'm sure of that.

Left with a choice of potentially getting a point or having no points and one additional goal in the minus column, I know what I'd choose. When you factor in the timing, a pissed off, emotional Emi or not, he made the right decision. Emery had so much to comment on about the game especially their third goal but he decided to be ridiculously petty instead. Each to their own.

Agree it won't happen again, more's the pity.

He didn't make the right decision though. We didn't score, and we immediately conceded. So it was the wrong decision. As I said above, sending the goalie up is an act of desperation, and ONLY makes sense if the rewards for a single goal FAR exceed the costs of conceding another one.  A league game for a mid-table team in Feb simply doesn't qualify.

Games are lost by the odd goal dozens of times every single weekend up and down the county, and do you know how many times the keeper goes up in the last couple of minutes? It's practically zero, because in 95% of cases the potential rewards do not outweigh the potential risks.

If a goal in the 93rd minute would get us into Europe in our last game of the season, then by all means, send in the entire cavalry.  But when you're 1-down in Feb to the league leaders? Nah.

So theoretically, come the end of the season you'd prefer we have less one goal against than one more point. You say it was the wrong decision because we didn't score but had we scored, what, it would have been the right decision? Maybe if Emery has said it was pointless Emi going up for the final corner in the last minute of the game because we're shit at corners and still don't know how to take them*, he'd have a more valid point.

*Luiz had been subbed.

[Somniloquism]

Lineker on MOTD also agrees with Emery in that they get in the way and he'd rather have the space than a keeper trying to cause chaos.

We also pay a set piece coach (whether he's effective or not is a differen argument) who has survived three managers and we toss away a corner for a keeper to run up and get in the way.

As well as conceding from corner kicks on a depressingly frequent basis. I don't get it, for three managers now we've been shite at both defending and attacking set pieces, yet that shaggy-haired chancer is still the one coach up and down the technical area all game.

I do wonder if that specific coach is actually a senior director appointment as no manager seems to replace him since he started here. And it is not like Emery doesn't have a large backroom staff we had to appoint as well to the detriment of some good coaches already here. (Cutler for one).

[brontebilly]

Lineker on MOTD also agrees with Emery in that they get in the way and he'd rather have the space than a keeper trying to cause chaos.

We also pay a set piece coach (whether he's effective or not is a differen argument) who has survived three managers and we toss away a corner for a keeper to run up and get in the way.

As well as conceding from corner kicks on a depressingly frequent basis. I don't get it, for three managers now we've been shite at both defending and attacking set pieces, yet that shaggy-haired chancer is still the one coach up and down the technical area all game.

We lack ball winners in both boxes. I can't even recall the last time Mings or Konsa even got close to scoring from a set piece. With Luiz taking them, delivery isn't a problem.