Emi Martinez

[algy]

They have a term for it (that I can't quite recall) which is a play on pick pocket or similar.

Maradona, Simeone and now Martinez are some of the more obvious exponents. But there have been plenty of others.

As Bertoni, in all candour says, 'in my opinion the English players are too honest'. Argentine players, on the other hand, are guided by the spirit of Machiavelli.

Diego Simeone's ludicrous reaction to the tap he received on the leg from Beckham in 1998 offered a perfect case in point. 'Our way of playing is inspired by the Italian model,' Perfumo told me. 'English players are more naive. Our game is more calculating. We study a rival more closely, we look for ways to destroy him. One of our approaches, for example, is to study a player's weak points so we can try and make him angry. Because in football if you get angry, you lose.'

Ricardo Villa makes the same point. 'In Argentina you go to the pitch with a masterplan in your mind. It is a destructive one instead of a creative one. It is better to destroy than to create. I played in England for five years and I never had anybody giving me advice on how to destroy a player.'

Was going to make the same point, but you've done it quite a lot better than I would've.

I'd absolutely hate Martinez if he played for someone else.  I'd also wish he was our arsehole.  Thankfully, he is.

[Drummond]

The better goalkeepers tend to be a bit tapped. And the better/ more competitive players often play on the edge.

Emi illustrates both.

It's also a long-established part of Argentinian sporting culture to not just indulge in the dark arts but celebrate them. It's not viewed with the same disdain as here.

That's correct and it's the very reason why Maradonna's hand of God goal is celebrated like it is.

That's a very good point, KG, and it helps to explain things to my understanding of Martinez behaviour on the pitch.
I do feel he has evolved somewhat into quite a character.
Clearly, he's a winner, and we must all accept his good and bad qualities because he's a match saver, leader, and a very passionate person who only ehances our ability to win football matches when he's on the pitch.

What 'bad qualities'?

[algy]

The better goalkeepers tend to be a bit tapped. And the better/ more competitive players often play on the edge.

Emi illustrates both.

It's also a long-established part of Argentinian sporting culture to not just indulge in the dark arts but celebrate them. It's not viewed with the same disdain as here.

That's correct and it's the very reason why Maradonna's hand of God goal is celebrated like it is.

That's a very good point, KG, and it helps to explain things to my understanding of Martinez behaviour on the pitch.
I do feel he has evolved somewhat into quite a character.
Clearly, he's a winner, and we must all accept his good and bad qualities because he's a match saver, leader, and a very passionate person who only ehances our ability to win football matches when he's on the pitch.

What 'bad qualities'?

Oh come on, the guy's a complete knobhead.  An utter prick.  What he does is about 1/16th inch away from cheating.


Though personally, when it comes to goalkeepers, I think that's exactly what you want.

[Brend'Watkins]

I don't like the gamesmanship, but if we didn't do it  we would be at a huge disadvantage.
What I find most irritating is the blatant professional foul which at worst gets a booking.
If a player is going through on goal I want to see what happens, not a free kick.
I think they should bring in a sin bin for these situations. Or a straight red.

You don't like the gamesmanship?  Every team has it in them.  Fernandez gave it some at the weekend the Poundshop shithouser that he is. You see players going down now for the slightest of contacts with the sole purpose of gaining some advantage. It's infuriating most of the time but increasingly it's part of the game.

[LeeB]

I don't see that Crook's is personally having a go at him anyway, i think you've misread it. He comments that Martinez ha had critisism from elsewhere but the 'boy's will be boys' bit is most likely Crook's opinion that it's all part of the game.

As for Ramsdale, he was being a right twat at the end, Richarlison was quite within he rights to come over and tell him to fuck off up the other end and stop goading the fans. The fan that kicked him should be banned for life though as there's no excuse for that.

Just before the final whistle Ramsdale came and took a cross and kind of screamed in delight as he did, you could hear it clearly (I had my headphones on as well). Richarlison was standing in his way when he went to kick it and then the whistle blew, it blew up from there.

I think both players were twats and as much as the bellend that tried to kick Ramsdale needs sorting out, the PFA need to have a word with some of their members as well. Nobody should be worried about their safety celebrating on the pitch, but use your head, doing an Adebayor up the pitch is not the wisest thing in the world, and even if they don't come on the pitch at you some poor sod in the crowd is probably getting knocked over in the rush to get to the front for some pavement dancing.

[Risso]

For almost my entire Villa-supporting life, we've been too nice to the point of naivety. Good old Aston Villa, who will turn up, play well* have their tummies tickled then leave quietly without any fuss, with the likes of Alex Ferguson complimenting us on what a great team we are. Well bollocks to that, and hurrah for Emi.


*occasionally

[Footy-Vill]

And he's definitely influenced the likes of Nick Pope and Arom Ramsgate in the antics they were displaying this weekend.
Just have to accept its part of the way he plays the game. He's a Great, world class goalkeeper.

Pope is miles more experienced in the Premier League than Emi, and played for one of the biggest bunch of cheats and cloggers in Burnley. Newcastle do just as much 'game management' as us, so I really don't think Pope needs any encouragement from Emi.  Lastly, amending your post to say "Great, world class goalkeeper" isn't fooling anybody. You've got a bizarre aversion to Martinez.

He doesn’t have an aversion. It’s called perspective and foresight. Intellect, balance and an enlightenment that the rest of us only wish we had.

Listen, I'm guilty of putting my own sporting values and ideas ahead of accepting Martinez's preferred method of how he wants to conduct his play.

Concerning the labelling use of aversion to Martinez well, It just takes me a while to get used to having our own very successful keeper act in those ways, especially since we are all averse to opponents acting in such ways.
It makes me feel hypocritical and less likely to debate and criticise the behaviour of some of the players with rival fans.

We can all celebrate Martinez in our own way, and I'll admit that there are clearly some who like him just the way he is. I would not tolerate that type of behaviour from any professional footballer, on or off the field.

I'm not his manager, agent, coach, partner, or relative, but I have an idea of how he should conduct himself, and that's just an ideal that, unfortunately, he doesn't always live up to in terms of what I value in a person.
But that's a human, isn't it? And I'll just have to accept it and do my level best not to comment on what I don't like about him instead focusing on his world class attributes of leadership and goalkeeping ability.

[Dave]

I think both players were twats and as much as the bellend that tried to kick Ramsdale needs sorting out, the PFA need to have a word with some of their members as well. Nobody should be worried about their safety celebrating on the pitch, but use your head, doing an Adebayor up the pitch is not the wisest thing in the world, and even if they don't come on the pitch at you some poor sod in the crowd is probably getting knocked over in the rush to get to the front for some pavement dancing.

What Ramsdale did wasn't any worse than Emi dancing in front of the ManYoo fans when Fernandes missed that penalty. And I thought that was great.

[Drummond]

The better goalkeepers tend to be a bit tapped. And the better/ more competitive players often play on the edge.

Emi illustrates both.

It's also a long-established part of Argentinian sporting culture to not just indulge in the dark arts but celebrate them. It's not viewed with the same disdain as here.

That's correct and it's the very reason why Maradonna's hand of God goal is celebrated like it is.

That's a very good point, KG, and it helps to explain things to my understanding of Martinez behaviour on the pitch.
I do feel he has evolved somewhat into quite a character.
Clearly, he's a winner, and we must all accept his good and bad qualities because he's a match saver, leader, and a very passionate person who only ehances our ability to win football matches when he's on the pitch.

What 'bad qualities'?

Oh come on, the guy's a complete knobhead.  An utter prick.  What he does is about 1/16th inch away from cheating.


Though personally, when it comes to goalkeepers, I think that's exactly what you want.

It's exactly what we need. It's not a bad quality to have, he plays within the rules (albeit with the occasional Yellow Card  for a minor infringement of wasting time) so he's good. 

[LeeB]

For almost my entire Villa-supporting life, we've been too nice to the point of naivety. Good old Aston Villa, who will turn up, play well* have their tummies tickled then leave quietly without any fuss, with the likes of Alex Ferguson complimenting us on what a great team we are. Well bollocks to that, and hurrah for Emi.


*occasionally

Absolutely, and it's gone on far too fucking long. It's seeped into the attitude of some fans as well. When we sold that lad to Citeh, you know him with the fat legs, the "he deserves to play at the top level", "we shouldn't stand in his way" (not from posters on this board, more the wider support), arrrgh, fuck off.

We're not here for the benefit of anyone else you fucking plums.

[Footy-Vill]

I don't see that Crook's is personally having a go at him anyway, i think you've misread it. He comments that Martinez ha had critisism from elsewhere but the 'boy's will be boys' bit is most likely Crook's opinion that it's all part of the game.

As for Ramsdale, he was being a right twat at the end, Richarlison was quite within he rights to come over and tell him to fuck off up the other end and stop goading the fans. The fan that kicked him should be banned for life though as there's no excuse for that.

Just before the final whistle Ramsdale came and took a cross and kind of screamed in delight as he did, you could hear it clearly (I had my headphones on as well). Richarlison was standing in his way when he went to kick it and then the whistle blew, it blew up from there.

I think both players were twats and as much as the bellend that tried to kick Ramsdale needs sorting out, the PFA need to have a word with some of their members as well. Nobody should be worried about their safety celebrating on the pitch, but use your head, doing an Adebayor up the pitch is not the wisest thing in the world, and even if they don't come on the pitch at you some poor sod in the crowd is probably getting knocked over in the rush to get to the front for some pavement dancing.

This is what I mean how can we comment on other goal keepers or players like Richarlison when Martinez is up there with this sort of behaviour!

[ChicagoLion]

I don't like the gamesmanship, but if we didn't do it  we would be at a huge disadvantage.
What I find most irritating is the blatant professional foul which at worst gets a booking.
If a player is going through on goal I want to see what happens, not a free kick.
I think they should bring in a sin bin for these situations. Or a straight red.

You don't like the gamesmanship?  Every team has it in them.  Fernandez gave it some at the weekend the Poundshop shithouser that he is. You see players going down now for the slightest of contacts with the sole purpose of gaining some advantage. It's infuriating most of the time but increasingly it's part of the game.

I agree it does not mean that that I like it.

[astonvilla82]

For almost my entire Villa-supporting life, we've been too nice to the point of naivety. Good old Aston Villa, who will turn up, play well* have their tummies tickled then leave quietly without any fuss, with the likes of Alex Ferguson complimenting us on what a great team we are. Well bollocks to that, and hurrah for Emi.


*occasionally

well said

[astonvilla82]

Let's see if they call out Ramsdale for his actions

[KevinGage]

For almost my entire Villa-supporting life, we've been too nice to the point of naivety. Good old Aston Villa, who will turn up, play well* have their tummies tickled then leave quietly without any fuss, with the likes of Alex Ferguson complimenting us on what a great team we are. Well bollocks to that, and hurrah for Emi.


*occasionally

Absolutely, and it's gone on far too fucking long. It's seeped into the attitude of some fans as well. When we sold that lad to Citeh, you know him with the fat legs, the "he deserves to play at the top level", "we shouldn't stand in his way" (not from posters on this board, more the wider support), arrrgh, fuck off.

We're not here for the benefit of anyone else you fucking plums.

Exactly that.