collapse collapse

Please donate to help towards the costs of keeping this site going. Thank You.

Follow us on...

Author Topic: Ollie Watkins  (Read 431166 times)

Offline brontebilly

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9283
  • GM : 09.06.2024
Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1455 on: October 27, 2021, 11:45:45 PM »
My choice is Watkins and Bailey wide, Buendia in behind Ings.

Still think this leaves us light in midfield as it means sacrificing the Ramsey/Sanson position to another forward and means McGinn has to stifle his attacking intent. Anyway let see how Smith decides to solve the conundrum on Sunday.

Agreed, we can't regress to Luiz/McGinn as a two again. McGinn hasn't the discipline to play there and it's a waste of his talents in any case. Has to be three in midfield.

Offline cdbearsfan

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 61464
  • Location: Yardley Massive
  • I still hate Bono.
  • GM : 03.02.2025
Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1456 on: October 27, 2021, 11:52:51 PM »
4-2-3-1 was often brilliant last year, when Barkley could be arsed. It can work again with Buendia as, hopefully, a far more consistent version of Barkley, Bailey replacing Quisling and Watkins playing in the El Ghazi/Trezeguet/Traore spot, at least until the latter is fit again.

Buendia isn't a central midfielder. He should be playing behind the centre forward.

Offline brontebilly

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9283
  • GM : 09.06.2024
Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1457 on: October 28, 2021, 12:52:31 AM »
4-2-3-1 was often brilliant last year, when Barkley could be arsed. It can work again with Buendia as, hopefully, a far more consistent version of Barkley, Bailey replacing Quisling and Watkins playing in the El Ghazi/Trezeguet/Traore spot, at least until the latter is fit again.

Buendia isn't a central midfielder. He should be playing behind the centre forward.

That's where he played v Arsenal and he was useless.  4231 didn't work without Grealish last season and it was struggling for a while before his injury in truth (Southampton, Brighton away come to mind). The longer Luiz/McGinn played there the more they struggled, neither are good enough frankly to play in a 2. I think it's mad after all this that the answer is to go back to Luiz/McGinn as a two again, not just you but Smith evidently aswell.

My biggest fear is a) Buendia bought to replace Barkley but our best formation doesn't include a #10, b) Ings bought but again our best formation doesn't have two up front, Watkins to the left wing I'm not against occasionally but even Smith has said himself that's not his best position. c) why we spent the bones of 50m on the pair of them, when we have at least three wingers .. Bailey, Traore, AEG (McGinn would be able to play on the right too)..

There's no logic to that recruitment for me and I think Smith tactics are a reflection of that so far this season.

Offline KRS

  • Member
  • Posts: 6685
Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1458 on: October 28, 2021, 09:04:28 AM »
I don’t understand why DS has insisted in playing both Watkins and Ings…the only way I can justify his decision is trying to get the best players on the pitch due to availability/fitness/injuries. We were all concerned about the lack of squad depth last season and beyond with no decent back up to Watkins. We now have 2 proven goal scorers that are also capable of running the front line on their own, so to play them both really doesn’t make sense to me as you weaken the team in defence/midfield and in doing so also restricts the service to the front.

What happens when or if either of Watkins or Ings gets injured? We’d either have to change formation or bring in one of our younger squad players (not such a bad option with Archer tbh). It’s pretty obvious to me that you rotate Watkins/Ings and pick suitable formation/tactics to get the best out of them and the rest of the team.

I hope DS has learned his lesson…reverts to a back four and rotates Watkins/Ings…the rest of the team pretty much picks itself depending on form/injuries.

Online ChicagoLion

  • Member
  • Posts: 22105
  • Location: Chicago
  • Literally
Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1459 on: October 28, 2021, 11:41:16 AM »
I would not have a problem with Watkins being used as an upgrade on AEG.
But prefer the wide men to be Traore Buendia Bailey.

Offline Risso

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 84826
  • Location: Leics
  • GM : 04.03.2025
Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1460 on: October 28, 2021, 03:33:05 PM »
4-2-3-1 was often brilliant last year, when Barkley could be arsed. It can work again with Buendia as, hopefully, a far more consistent version of Barkley, Bailey replacing Quisling and Watkins playing in the El Ghazi/Trezeguet/Traore spot, at least until the latter is fit again.

Buendia isn't a central midfielder. He should be playing behind the centre forward.

In two games, when both Grealish and Barkley were at the very summit of their games. Liverpool and Arsenal couldn't get near them. For the two to three games he could be arsed and/or wasn't injured, Barkley was great. He's also a very imposing, physical unit, something which you cannot say about Buendia.

Online London Villan

  • Member
  • Posts: 9514
  • Location: Brum
  • GM : 27.05.2019
Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1461 on: October 28, 2021, 03:49:33 PM »
The muddled thinking was summed up in last week's match where he took two of our most expensive signings off (Buendia/Ings) and we looked much more effective.

Watkins wasn't one of the problems last season - how we use him this season has created a new problem.

Online algy

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5010
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Gogledd Cymru
  • GM : 23.03.2025
Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1462 on: October 28, 2021, 05:19:16 PM »
Think it really needs to be Ings OR Watkins, not both (unless we're playing 2 strikers). I know Ollie can play on the left, but it's been said time & time again that it's not his strongest position any more. Really don't understand why you'd to to convert one of the best English centre forwards in the league out of position.

Offline Risso

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 84826
  • Location: Leics
  • GM : 04.03.2025
Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1463 on: October 28, 2021, 05:30:48 PM »
Think it really needs to be Ings OR Watkins, not both (unless we're playing 2 strikers).

So we shouldn't play two strikers, unless we play two strikers?! ;)

Offline Dante Lavelli

  • Member
  • Posts: 9549
  • GM : 25.05.2023
Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1464 on: October 28, 2021, 07:59:41 PM »
The 433 formation seems so obvious to me.  It suits way more of our squad and allows us to rotate players (not drop them) so that we can sustain a high intensity for the whole season.

433, high press, and run the opposition into the ground.

Offline Ian.

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13793
  • Location: Back home in the Shire
  • GM : 07.10.2024
Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1465 on: October 28, 2021, 08:02:32 PM »
The 433 formation seems so obvious to me.  It suits way more of our squad and allows us to rotate players (not drop them) so that we can sustain a high intensity for the whole season.

433, high press, and run the opposition into the ground.
Most definitely, I can’t believe we haven’t been.

Offline N'ZMAV

  • Member
  • Posts: 9637
  • Location: Peckham
Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1466 on: October 28, 2021, 08:02:54 PM »
3-5-2 sunday then.

Offline cdbearsfan

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 61464
  • Location: Yardley Massive
  • I still hate Bono.
  • GM : 03.02.2025
Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1467 on: October 28, 2021, 10:42:28 PM »
4-2-3-1 was often brilliant last year, when Barkley could be arsed. It can work again with Buendia as, hopefully, a far more consistent version of Barkley, Bailey replacing Quisling and Watkins playing in the El Ghazi/Trezeguet/Traore spot, at least until the latter is fit again.

Buendia isn't a central midfielder. He should be playing behind the centre forward.

In two games, when both Grealish and Barkley were at the very summit of their games. Liverpool and Arsenal couldn't get near them. For the two to three games he could be arsed and/or wasn't injured, Barkley was great. He's also a very imposing, physical unit, something which you cannot say about Buendia.

Buendia gets stuck in more than Barkley ever did, IMO. Watkins/Traore-Buendia-Bailey has the potential to be better, or at least far more consistent, than Grealish-Barkley-Traore/El Ghazi/Trezeguet, I reckon.

I also don't believe that we have bought Ings to not play. Rightly or wrongly, I think we will see Ings and Watkins continue to play together. It isn't working at the moment, it might in this formation. It already showed signs of promise during the brief period we tried it the other day.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2021, 10:44:37 PM by cdbullyweefan »

Online algy

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5010
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Gogledd Cymru
  • GM : 23.03.2025
Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1468 on: October 29, 2021, 12:25:03 AM »
Think it really needs to be Ings OR Watkins, not both (unless we're playing 2 strikers).

So we shouldn't play two strikers, unless we play two strikers?! ;)
Basically yeah, we should only play 2 strikers when there's 2 strikers on the pitch, if there's one striker we should definitely play with one.

I think that was my point.

Offline adrenachrome

  • Member
  • Posts: 13438
  • Location: The Foundry
Re: Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa & England)
« Reply #1469 on: October 29, 2021, 01:57:47 AM »
Think it really needs to be Ings OR Watkins, not both (unless we're playing 2 strikers).

So we shouldn't play two strikers, unless we play two strikers?! ;)
Basically yeah, we should only play 2 strikers when there's 2 strikers on the pitch, if there's one striker we should definitely play with one.

I think that was my point.

The most obvious formation for 2 strikers is 4-4-2, but there are other variants. If you play 3 at the back, then the jig is up. Midfield overrun innit.

I remember when we played 3 strikers up front: Gabby, Carew and Luke Moore. Gabby and Luke did a lot of tracking back, though.

 


SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal