Post by: Toronto Villa on September 08, 2020, 03:25:58 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 08, 2020, 03:27:14 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on September 08, 2020, 03:35:58 PM
a lot of bad ones do too
Post by: Tokyo Sexwhale on September 08, 2020, 03:39:33 PM
Post by: Mister E on September 08, 2020, 03:41:13 PM
Post by: gpbarr on September 08, 2020, 03:42:11 PM
Post by: darren woolley on September 08, 2020, 03:43:48 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 08, 2020, 03:48:50 PM
Crazy money. He will get my 100% support but I sure hope this ends better than our recent history of buying overly expensive strikers from the Championship - Hogan, McCormack, Gestede, Kodija ......
Bit harsh on Kod he did perfectly well for us.
Post by: maidstonevillain on September 08, 2020, 03:49:28 PM
Crazy money. He will get my 100% support but I sure hope this ends better than our recent history of buying overly expensive strikers from the Championship - Hogan, McCormack, Gestede, Kodija ......
Kodija despite injuries did alright. And Gestede was cheap, and we at least got the transfer fee back.
Post by: DrGonzo on September 08, 2020, 03:54:00 PM
Post by: mr underhill on September 08, 2020, 03:54:57 PM
Post by: Risso on September 08, 2020, 03:57:48 PM
Crazy money. He will get my 100% support but I sure hope this ends better than our recent history of buying overly expensive strikers from the Championship - Hogan, McCormack, Gestede, Kodija ......
Bit harsh on Kod he did perfectly well for us.
Agreed, Kodjia certainly doesn't deserve to be spoken about in the same breath as those others.
This seems like an expensive acquisition, but one we're crying out for, so good luck Ollie, assuming it happens.
Post by: sickbeggar on September 08, 2020, 03:58:36 PM
Post by: Dave on September 08, 2020, 04:00:29 PM
Seems a bit lazy (our transfer policy, not him as a player), but he's the sort of player who will probably get the 12 or so goals that we were lacking from a striker last year and should make things a bit more comfortable than last time.
Post by: sickbeggar on September 08, 2020, 04:04:13 PM
Even if he bombs (and by extension we do too), you'd think he's shown enough in the Championship that he'd be fine to get 25 goals to help get us back up or half his fee back from someone else.
Seems a bit lazy, but he's the sort of player who will probably get the 12 or so goals that we were lacking from a striker last year and should make things a bit more comfortable than last time.
[/quote
yeah, a lot of my concern is not that we've bought a lemon, but whether he will find his feet straight away.
Post by: LeeB on September 08, 2020, 04:08:31 PM
Even if he bombs (and by extension we do too), you'd think he's shown enough in the Championship that he'd be fine to get 25 goals to help get us back up or half his fee back from someone else.
Seems a bit lazy, but he's the sort of player who will probably get the 12 or so goals that we were lacking from a striker last year and should make things a bit more comfortable than last time.
[/quote
yeah, a lot of my concern is not that we've bought a lemon, but whether he will find his feet straight away.
I know it's a step up and all, but I'd be more confident of this lad starting well as he is 'running hot' and will carry his form into the new season, much like Tammy did with Chelsea.
Post by: tim on September 08, 2020, 04:11:14 PM
Big risk/gamble at £33m, but sometimes these things pay off. Let's hope.
Post by: KevinGage on September 08, 2020, 04:14:02 PM
He wasn't playing directly up top that day but had good touch, strength and an edge to his game without being a twat like Maupay.
Came across really well in his post match interview as well. Not a reason to sign him on its own, admittedly. But sounds like he's not short of grey matter and thinks about his game.
Sign all the intelligent players. Will make a refreshing change compared to some of the dopey individuals we've had over the years.
Post by: ozzjim on September 08, 2020, 04:17:02 PM
If we get the right players in around him, another quality winger, striker and central midfielder, then I think he will be very, very decent.
Outside bet to be knocking Wilson out of the England reckoning next summer would be nice.
Post by: Risso on September 08, 2020, 04:18:13 PM
Post by: Arsey on September 08, 2020, 04:24:04 PM
Post by: john e on September 08, 2020, 04:29:54 PM
mere bagatelle for our owners
Post by: fbriai on September 08, 2020, 04:31:01 PM
He has all the attributes. Think he'll turn out to be a fine signing.
Post by: malckennedy on September 08, 2020, 04:37:40 PM
Post by: Shrek on September 08, 2020, 04:38:07 PM
I’d be confident he is, because the only people to score more are likes of Mitrovic, Murray, McCormack, who all take pens don’t they?
Post by: frank black on September 08, 2020, 04:45:01 PM
Is it true that Mourinho was sniffing around?
Probably not, but the Rumour did the trick for Brentford.
Post by: eamonn on September 08, 2020, 04:47:16 PM
Post by: Mister E on September 08, 2020, 04:47:56 PM
That price is extreme.If we pay £33m, it means the risk paid off, triggering the add-ons.
Big risk/gamble at £33m, but sometimes these things pay off. Let's hope.
At £28m, he's less than Leeds have paid for a 1-in-4 striker.
Post by: KevinGage on September 08, 2020, 04:51:24 PM
Can he play as a winger too ?
More a wide forward in a three,
Similar to how Grabban could switch it up.
Post by: john e on September 08, 2020, 05:03:08 PM
Can he play as a winger too ?
We’ve basically got 2 for the price of 1
absolute top notch negotiating skills
Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 08, 2020, 05:03:38 PM
Is it true that Mourinho was sniffing around?
I don't think it'd got that far, but some rent-a-quotes had suggested that he could do worse than Watkins in his striker search. Some reports said he was in for Wilson.
Post by: danno on September 08, 2020, 05:04:01 PM
Post by: simon ward 50 on September 08, 2020, 05:04:28 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on September 08, 2020, 05:05:00 PM
But needs must. When we have a strong balanced squad we can pick and chose players to suplement the team and play the waiting game if needed. We just weren't in a position to do that this time.
I don't think I like Brentford anymore and hope this is the last time we do business with them for a good while.
But welcome Ollie, it was one of the signings I was hoping for and hopefully he'll be great.
Post by: chrisw1 on September 08, 2020, 05:11:20 PM
He at least looks equally good up front or playing wider, which will give him an immediate advantage over Wesley.He at least looks good which will give him an immediate advantage over Wesley.
Post by: JJ-AV on September 08, 2020, 05:13:01 PM
Re. the fee, we were desperate, have lots of money and haven't had long to prepare, it's a recipe for disaster. But Smith's got his man and now we've got a forward in we can afford to play the long game for the next one.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 08, 2020, 05:17:39 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on September 08, 2020, 05:20:10 PM
Just to be clear he’s not aboard yet.good point - this is Aston Villa we're talking about...
Juninho.
Post by: danno on September 08, 2020, 05:22:06 PM
Post by: Ads on September 08, 2020, 05:24:58 PM
Post by: SaddVillan on September 08, 2020, 05:28:53 PM
No doubt some will complain about the price and £28m might seem high.
But:
Tammy Abraham scored 26 goals in 40 games for us when we got promoted. How much would we have been prepared to pay for him last summer if he'd been available - £25m, £30m?
Watkins scored 26 in 50 for Brentford. So you might think that Abraham has a better goals per game record.
However:
Abraham got 6 pens, so 20 in 40 from open play. An average of 1 in 2
Watkins no pens at all. 26 from 50 in open play - just over 1 in 2, marginally better than Tammy.
£28m seems reasonable.
Post by: Clampy on September 08, 2020, 05:32:27 PM
Hoping that the deal for Watkins goes through tomorrow.
No doubt some will complain about the price and £28m might seem high.
But:
Tammy Abraham scored 26 goals in 40 games for us when we got promoted. How much would we have been prepared to pay for him last summer if he'd been available - £25m, £30m?
Watkins scored 26 in 50 for Brentford. So you might think that Abraham has a better goals per game record.
However:
Abraham got 6 pens, so 20 in 40 from open play. An average of 1 in 2
Watkins no pens at all. 26 from 50 in open play - just over 1 in 2, marginally better than Tammy.
£28m seems reasonable.
The slight difference is, Tammy scored 25 the season before for Brizzle City and played in the Prem for Swansea. We did need a striker but I can understand the sharp intake of breath over the fee.
Post by: N'ZMAV on September 08, 2020, 05:36:19 PM
Post by: andyh on September 08, 2020, 05:36:53 PM
I won’t mention the final though.
The fee is the fee, there is no point us getting wound up about it.
I’m sure he’ll be miles better than all the forwards we have bought since Benteke.
Post by: brontebilly on September 08, 2020, 05:39:37 PM
I can’t say I’ve seen much of him, but his performance against Swansea in their play off semi final was brilliant.
I won’t mention the final though.
The fee is the fee, there is no point us getting wound up about it.
I’m sure he’ll be miles better than all the forwards we have bought since Benteke.
As long as he settles quickly, there is going to be huge pressure on him but maybe no crowds will help. Watkins has huge potential as identifed by a poster on here a few years back, who was it ??
I had absolutely no faith in Wesley or Samatta ever being the answer so fingers crossed for Watkins.
Post by: malckennedy on September 08, 2020, 05:43:43 PM
Very happy when this is done. Big, quick, plays across the front 3, scores lots of different types of goals. Could careless about the fee.
Agree with this. Not sure why so many people think we need to scrimp and save. If we need him and he's good, the price is for others to worry about - we can just enjoy the goals he'll score.
Post by: Big Ming on September 08, 2020, 05:46:17 PM
Still, assuming this goes through I will not be complaining. We need someone with a sniffers instincts (cue Kenneth Williams gif).
Post by: N'ZMAV on September 08, 2020, 05:48:14 PM
not buying a striker will cost us a couple of hundred million pounds in relegationVery happy when this is done. Big, quick, plays across the front 3, scores lots of different types of goals. Could careless about the fee.
Agree with this. Not sure why so many people think we need to scrimp and save. If we need him and he's good, the price is for others to worry about - we can just enjoy the goals he'll score.
Post by: Clampy on September 08, 2020, 05:48:38 PM
Post by: villa for life on September 08, 2020, 05:49:54 PM
Dare I say it, I think he’s a better deal than Tammy who’d cost more. Still unconvinced Tammy will ever be a prolific premiership player.
Post by: Villafirst on September 08, 2020, 05:59:31 PM
Post by: SheffieldVillain on September 08, 2020, 06:04:05 PM
We must be single-handedly paying for Brentford's new stadium.
Still, assuming this goes through I will not be complaining. We need someone with a sniffers instincts (cue Kenneth Williams gif).
Exeter can't have done badly out of us this summer either considering the deal for one of their kids and the sell-on fee for Watkins.
Post by: OCD on September 08, 2020, 06:04:11 PM
Post by: Flamingo Lane on September 08, 2020, 06:07:44 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 08, 2020, 06:12:06 PM
I feel Watkins at this price is a better deal than C. Wilson at 20 mill
Yes, I agree - given the choice of Watkins at this price of Wilson, with his multiple injury problems, at 20, I'd go for Watkins.
Wilson is going to be 33 at the end of that 5 year deal they have given him, too.
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on September 08, 2020, 06:12:13 PM
He at least looks equally good up front or playing wider, which will give him an immediate advantage over Wesley.
In fairness Wesley is equally good in any position, makes just as crap a winger / goalkeeper as he does a striker.
He looks a far better player, and had scored more goals in a better league than Wesley had when we signed him.
Plenty of players step up well from the Championship and plenty fail. Let's hope he is a big hit. Whatever happens I can't fault the club for backing the manager.
Post by: villa for life on September 08, 2020, 06:22:31 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 08, 2020, 06:27:18 PM
completely agree.I feel Watkins at this price is a better deal than C. Wilson at 20 mill
Yes, I agree - given the choice of Watkins at this price of Wilson, with his multiple injury problems, at 20, I'd go for Watkins.
Wilson is going to be 33 at the end of that 5 year deal they have given him, too.
The 2 players we have bought in add pace which has been desperately lacking.
Post by: olaftab on September 08, 2020, 06:46:49 PM
Post by: CT on September 08, 2020, 06:47:44 PM
I like this boy and agree that he is a much better buy at £28M than Nowandthen Wilson at £20M.
Absolutely 100% this.
Post by: mcgrath_85 on September 08, 2020, 06:50:25 PM
I suppose it puts those penny pinching claims to bed.I wish it would put you to bed.
Post by: LeeB on September 08, 2020, 06:53:08 PM
I suppose it puts those penny pinching claims to bed.I wish it would put you to bed.
No need for that, is there?
Post by: Clampy on September 08, 2020, 06:56:46 PM
I suppose it puts those penny pinching claims to bed.I wish it would put you to bed.
Nice.
Post by: Ian. on September 08, 2020, 06:57:05 PM
What’s the point of that? Clampy does have a point, one thing is for certain our owners are not scared to back the manager and they have certainly spent a huge amount of money since they saved us from disaster.I suppose it puts those penny pinching claims to bed.I wish it would put you to bed.
Post by: VILLA MOLE on September 08, 2020, 06:57:23 PM
I suppose it puts those penny pinching claims to bed.I wish it would put you to bed.
Bit flirty 😳
Post by: brian green on September 08, 2020, 06:59:04 PM
Post by: Villafirst on September 08, 2020, 07:05:14 PM
Followed him since Exeter. Bloody good player. He will do well for us.
Agree, he has all the attributes
Post by: Clampy on September 08, 2020, 07:12:54 PM
Followed him since Exeter. Bloody good player. He will do well for us.
Brian did mention him a few times whenever he scored and I did give him a little bit of stick over it but fair play, it was a good spot, well hopefully it will be. Fair play Brian.
Post by: brian green on September 08, 2020, 07:19:38 PM
Post by: Nunkin1965 on September 08, 2020, 07:34:41 PM
Something we’ve missed for a long time.
Post by: Drummond on September 08, 2020, 07:37:38 PM
Post by: Steve67 on September 08, 2020, 07:44:26 PM
Post by: PeterWithe on September 08, 2020, 07:46:31 PM
Post by: themossman on September 08, 2020, 07:54:02 PM
I suppose it puts those penny pinching claims to bed.Get out of my dreams and into my bed.
Bit flirty 😳
😲
Post by: Hookeysmith on September 08, 2020, 07:54:19 PM
Cheap considering fees for strikers in this League. Havertz to Chelsea for £85m? Haller a flop to West Ham at £45m? Joelinton a flop to Newcastle at £40m? I think Ollie will do well for us. He is young, has pace, can hold the ball up and a decent scoring rate.
When you look at them this guy could be a bargain
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on September 08, 2020, 07:56:36 PM
Cheap considering fees for strikers in this League. Havertz to Chelsea for £85m? Haller a flop to West Ham at £45m? Joelinton a flop to Newcastle at £40m? I think Ollie will do well for us. He is young, has pace, can hold the ball up and a decent scoring rate.
When you look at them this guy could be a bargain
Yeah the JoeLinton fee was insanely poor value.
Post by: RamboandBruno on September 08, 2020, 08:02:21 PM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on September 08, 2020, 08:10:29 PM
I suppose it puts those penny pinching claims to bed.I wish it would put you to bed.
Ouch! Are you responsible for said claims perchance?
Post by: rougegorge on September 08, 2020, 08:19:07 PM
Watkins will certainly need a better supply than our current wide players provide, assuming that Smith sticks with his usual formation.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on September 08, 2020, 08:45:34 PM
I like this boy and agree that he is a much better buy at £28M than Nowandthen Wilson at £20M.
That was my thought too. Expensive but hopefully in year we'll look back on it as a bargain.
Post by: ROBBO on September 08, 2020, 09:09:23 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 08, 2020, 09:28:43 PM
Also with the fee I get the feeling he's our starting striker this year so huge pressure on him to hit the ground running as we need a striker with that sort of price tag to get more than 4 or 5 goals.
Hope he's up to it.
Post by: OCD on September 08, 2020, 09:43:41 PM
Really don't get our strategy sometimes. We've waited weeks seemingly low balling Brentford with bids and now we're signing him for potentially 10m more than most of us predicted (if he does as well as we all hope some of the add ons will be met).
Also with the fee I get the feeling he's our starting striker this year so huge pressure on him to hit the ground running as we need a striker with that sort of price tag to get more than 4 or 5 goals.
Hope he's up to it.
We don't know what Brentford's original asking price was at the end of the season. It explains why it's taken so long to do the deal though. Some of the price is because Exeter have a sell-on clause.
Post by: Legion on September 08, 2020, 09:44:51 PM
I suppose it puts those penny pinching claims to bed.I wish it would put you to bed.
No need for that, is there?
No. Please be civil.
Post by: olaftab on September 08, 2020, 09:45:43 PM
Post by: Shrek on September 08, 2020, 10:21:36 PM
A lot of money, but if we can push the boat out, get Benrahma in as well as he was the top player in the Championship and combined so often with Watkins.
Watkins will certainly need a better supply than our current wide players provide, assuming that Smith sticks with his usual formation.
After watching his goals from last season, nearly every one comes from wide areas, we defo need to improve our wide to get the best from him.
Post by: WilliamStanding on September 08, 2020, 10:36:25 PM
It’s our money - it isn’t - it’s the clubs whether it’s revenue based or owners holdings.
If he does the job I couldn’t careless how much he costs.
Post by: Rory on September 08, 2020, 10:39:31 PM
I’ve never understood why us fans talk about the money aspect like
It’s our money - it isn’t - it’s the clubs whether it’s revenue based or owners holdings.
If he does the job I couldn’t careless how much he costs.
Agreed. This is an excellent signing in my book, not sure why we insist on qualifying that with 'yeah, but we paid too much'.
Post by: PeterWithe on September 08, 2020, 10:41:13 PM
A lot of money, but if we can push the boat out, get Benrahma in as well as he was the top player in the Championship and combined so often with Watkins.
Watkins will certainly need a better supply than our current wide players provide, assuming that Smith sticks with his usual formation.
After watching his goals from last season, nearly every one comes from wide areas, we defo need to improve our wide to get the best from him.
Sounds a bit like Hogans video, I’m sure we’ve learned.
Post by: enigma on September 08, 2020, 10:50:29 PM
I’ve never understood why us fans talk about the money aspect like
It’s our money - it isn’t - it’s the clubs whether it’s revenue based or owners holdings.
If he does the job I couldn’t careless how much he costs.
Agreed. This is an excellent signing in my book, not sure why we insist on qualifying that with 'yeah, but we paid too much'.
Because we ther we like it or not we live in an era of FFP so it has an impact on the budget for future signings.
Post by: LeeB on September 08, 2020, 10:57:10 PM
I’ve never understood why us fans talk about the money aspect like
It’s our money - it isn’t - it’s the clubs whether it’s revenue based or owners holdings.
If he does the job I couldn’t careless how much he costs.
Agreed. This is an excellent signing in my book, not sure why we insist on qualifying that with 'yeah, but we paid too much'.
Because we ther we like it or not we live in an era of FFP so it has an impact on the budget for future signings.
Yes, but it's someone else's job to worry about that. I didn't fall in love with football dreaming that one day I could balance the clubs wages to income ratio.
I just want to see centre forwards battering in goals.
Post by: Rory on September 08, 2020, 10:58:55 PM
I’ve never understood why us fans talk about the money aspect like
It’s our money - it isn’t - it’s the clubs whether it’s revenue based or owners holdings.
If he does the job I couldn’t careless how much he costs.
Agreed. This is an excellent signing in my book, not sure why we insist on qualifying that with 'yeah, but we paid too much'.
Because we ther we like it or not we live in an era of FFP so it has an impact on the budget for future signings.
None of us know the extent to which this fee impacts on our budget for future signings.
Those in charge of signings have made this decision and I think it looks decent value. If you disagree, that's perfectly fine, you may well turn out to be right. But we aren't just going to be able to sign every player we might want for the fees we want.
Ultimately, I think we needed this signing, and clearly we wanted Watkins. I'd rather we sign the players we really want, even if it means paying slightly over the odds, than settle.
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 08, 2020, 11:04:19 PM
I suppose it puts those penny pinching claims to bed.
I still think there’s enough to get in a winger and hopefully a midfielder too. And if we get Martinez that will be the thick end of £100m net spend. I would like a fast left back too and sell off Taylor.
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 08, 2020, 11:22:05 PM
I’ve never understood why us fans talk about the money aspect like
It’s our money - it isn’t - it’s the clubs whether it’s revenue based or owners holdings.
If he does the job I couldn’t careless how much he costs.
Agreed. This is an excellent signing in my book, not sure why we insist on qualifying that with 'yeah, but we paid too much'.
Vast majority of our signings have been overpriced in last 10 years, probably even stretching back to MON years although that was more insane wages for 3m signings like Habib Beye.
It can impact on club long term and set us back seasons with FFP, we still can't get rid of Scott Hogan after all and McCormack drained wages off us for the full 4 years.
I don't think Watkins will be like either of those two thankfully. However if his goal output massively reduces at premier league level then we won't have too many clubs queueing up to pay 20m for him.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 08, 2020, 11:25:21 PM
Agreed. This is an excellent signing in my book, not sure why we insist on qualifying that with 'yeah, but we paid too much'.It's a perfectly valid opinion, which as it goes seems be shared by quite a few. It's not as if we got utterly bummed but Brentford got a good deal out of us. There's not much wrong with pointing that out is there?
Post by: paul_e on September 08, 2020, 11:27:04 PM
I’ve never understood why us fans talk about the money aspect like
It’s our money - it isn’t - it’s the clubs whether it’s revenue based or owners holdings.
If he does the job I couldn’t careless how much he costs.
because we're 2 years on from having to sell the addons from transfers to pay the electric bill. Kinda makes finances feel important.
That said I'm more bothered by the wage bill than the transfer fees, that's why I'd rather spend a decent wedge on younger players than give a final big contract to older ones. Wages are far more of a money pit than transfer fees.
Post by: Monty on September 08, 2020, 11:27:49 PM
Agreed. This is an excellent signing in my book, not sure why we insist on qualifying that with 'yeah, but we paid too much'.It's a perfectly valid opinion, which as it goes seems be shared by quite a few. It's not as if we got utterly bummed but Brentford got a good deal out of us. There's not much wrong with pointing that out is there?
Indeed not, they really have got good money from us for what is essentially a gamble. But hopefully it'll prove a gamble that makes it look a good deal all round in the end.
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 08, 2020, 11:30:13 PM
Agreed. This is an excellent signing in my book, not sure why we insist on qualifying that with 'yeah, but we paid too much'.It's a perfectly valid opinion, which as it goes seems be shared by quite a few. It's not as if we got utterly bummed but Brentford got a good deal out of us. There's not much wrong with pointing that out is there?
Well put it this way we've paid nearly 50m for Matty Cash and Ollie. Have they got the quality to push us up from 17th to 12th or even 10th? We'll soon see but players costing that much need to have potential to be top half players for us not just move us up a place.
Saw a few saying he'd be good for us if we get relegated, surely got to get past that mentality for new signings, I could fully understand that last summer but we need to kick on now towards mid table with what we're spending and signing.
Post by: gpbarr on September 08, 2020, 11:33:54 PM
I’ve never understood why us fans talk about the money aspect like
It’s our money - it isn’t - it’s the clubs whether it’s revenue based or owners holdings.
If he does the job I couldn’t careless how much he costs.
Agreed. This is an excellent signing in my book, not sure why we insist on qualifying that with 'yeah, but we paid too much'.
Because we ther we like it or not we live in an era of FFP so it has an impact on the budget for future signings.
And not giving a shit about the finances nearly bankrupt the club. Get serious - this is a business, not a hobby
Post by: Rory on September 08, 2020, 11:41:53 PM
We need new options in attack, I'm fairly confident the club didn't say "hey, what do you want for Watkins? £20m? Okay, we'll offer £28m".
If he's a player we want, that was valued at that by Brentford, and we decided he was worth it, then so be it. I don't think Jack is worth £80m but we're all happy enough if that means Man Utd fuck off and Jack is in our starting XI come the first game of the season.
Not dismissing anybody else's opinion, but I think this is a good signing.
Post by: Rory on September 08, 2020, 11:43:28 PM
I’ve never understood why us fans talk about the money aspect like
It’s our money - it isn’t - it’s the clubs whether it’s revenue based or owners holdings.
If he does the job I couldn’t careless how much he costs.
Agreed. This is an excellent signing in my book, not sure why we insist on qualifying that with 'yeah, but we paid too much'.
Because we ther we like it or not we live in an era of FFP so it has an impact on the budget for future signings.
And not giving a shit about the finances nearly bankrupt the club. Get serious - this is a business, not a hobby
That must be why you're paid so much to monitor our transfer activity then.
Post by: WilliamStanding on September 08, 2020, 11:47:21 PM
Even what we think is “value for money “ we will ultimately never know the true cost of a player or what income we have to cover that .
Let’s relax knowing our owners are minted, not Lerner minted , but actually minted.
Post by: paul_e on September 08, 2020, 11:49:09 PM
Post by: WilliamStanding on September 08, 2020, 11:52:34 PM
I’ve never understood why us fans talk about the money aspect like
It’s our money - it isn’t - it’s the clubs whether it’s revenue based or owners holdings.
If he does the job I couldn’t careless how much he costs.
Agreed. This is an excellent signing in my book, not sure why we insist on qualifying that with 'yeah, but we paid too much'.
Because we ther we like it or not we live in an era of FFP so it has an impact on the budget for future signings.
And not giving a shit about the finances nearly bankrupt the club. Get serious - this is a business, not a hobby
Absolutely it’s a business, so at the top table let’s pay over the odds if needs be as if that player keeps us up / gets us a place higher in the PL it pays for itself and then some.
Relax.
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 08, 2020, 11:57:18 PM
Plays all across the front 3 so great option. Hope he's used as striker but is flexibility allows him to play as wing forward too and has attacking creativity
Deano knows him well and only improve him
Lovely acquisition with best years ahead of him.
I'm pleased he's coming in and I hope can be a great attacking asset.
15+ goals this season please!!
Post by: sickbeggar on September 09, 2020, 12:15:14 AM
place your bets now....
Post by: paul_e on September 09, 2020, 12:24:43 AM
Don't think anyone knows how he will turn out. You cant judge a players chances of success at the prem by the championship anymore than you can judge a player from the Belgium 1st division and i heard the same arguments last summer. All we know is Smith has bet the farm on him, and in 12 months time, he'll either be gone or people will be aiming plaudits at him for buying a player no-one else would gamble on.
place your bets now....
This is true of almost any signing, I've seen us sign players with experience (at the level we're playing) for big money who flop a lot more often than youngsters with big reputations.
I think character and attitude, and how they match the rest of the squad, are far more important than experience because they have a bigger effect on how players settle into the club. Both signings so far fit with the squad as it was at the end of the season.
Post by: sickbeggar on September 09, 2020, 12:32:38 AM
Don't think anyone knows how he will turn out. You cant judge a players chances of success at the prem by the championship anymore than you can judge a player from the Belgium 1st division and i heard the same arguments last summer. All we know is Smith has bet the farm on him, and in 12 months time, he'll either be gone or people will be aiming plaudits at him for buying a player no-one else would gamble on.
place your bets now....
This is true of almost any signing, I've seen us sign players with experience (at the level we're playing) for big money who flop a lot more often than youngsters with big reputations.
I think character and attitude, and how they match the rest of the squad, are far more important than experience because they have a bigger effect on how players settle into the club. Both signings so far fit with the squad as it was at the end of the season.
yeah don't disagree. this summer at least, i believe Smith really wanted watkins which is probably more than you can say for the last two striker we've bought.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 09, 2020, 12:38:05 AM
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 09, 2020, 12:39:26 AM
I imagine he'll start the season against Sheffield as central striker but if he dosen't hit the ground running then we can move him out wide and given him more time to adapt to premier league without him having the pressure to score.
It's a must we bring in another striker given the three we started with last year alll missed significant chunks of last season injured. Would be good to have a decent attacking option off the bench aswell.
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 09, 2020, 12:54:36 AM
Last season we needed a centre forward to score from all those chances Grealish created -2nd most in league after KDB.
Ollie Watkins scored 26 goals last season.
Expected goals XG :25 goals
Watkins outperformed his XG.
Last season Watkins displayed outstanding finishing ability. Scoring every chance expected of him +1!
In the centre forward role he's shown to take his chances.
So basically if we create chances OW will be expected to score- literally!
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 09, 2020, 01:18:35 AM
Was 1-1 at the time so if he'd scored there Brentford would've made the premier league. Struggled to make an impact in play off final aswell.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 09, 2020, 01:59:13 AM
Post by: robbo1874 on September 09, 2020, 02:23:58 AM
I thik the video linked earlier is very misleading. It shows him scoring a lot of 'fox in the box' style goals, and that will be welcome, but if you look at how he was playing before last season where he was a winger more often you get a much better understanding of his overall game:very impressive montage. Didn’t even know who he was before the transfer chat started. I don’t wish to jinx the lad, but there’s a few similarities with Collymore and Savo in that little lot! I like how a lot of them are smashed into the roof of the net and the ‘tap ins’ are taken very cleanly and instinctively. I can see why people are calling for more pace out wide.
Post by: robbo1874 on September 09, 2020, 03:12:29 AM
Post by: mr underhill on September 09, 2020, 06:47:10 AM
Post by: Villafirst on September 09, 2020, 06:50:42 AM
Post by: frank black on September 09, 2020, 06:52:59 AM
i wish someone had taken Brian Green's advice three or four years ago and bought him then.
We were linked with him before he went to Brentford (I think).
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 09, 2020, 06:56:12 AM
Didn't we have this exact argument last year? I thought at the end of the season just gone there was consensus that we erred too far towards potential + inexperience and badly needed a few experienced heads. So far we've spent what £43M+ on two lads with no PL experience whatsoever. Okay, you lose money on older players with no resale value but that's not why you're buying them. You're buying them because the team - particularly the inexperienced lads - needs them. In fact, you really shouldn't be buying one without the other and I fully expect us to bring in a couple before the end of the window.
We also had an argument about whether we were definitely getting relegated a couple of months ago.
Post by: ldavfc4eva on September 09, 2020, 07:25:59 AM
I thought they were a bit of a package, as in Benrahma sets them up and Ollie finishes them.
Not the case at all based on last season.
Post by: chrisw1 on September 09, 2020, 07:29:12 AM
Deano knows what he's doing he's looked at things and got his appropriate striker.Are you sure about that XG stat footy? I heard the Villa analytics guy off twitter on a podcast a while back and he said Watkins xg last year was 36, so he underperformed. He spun it as a good thing as it showed ho much more potential to improve he has
Last season we needed a centre forward to score from all those chances Grealish created -2nd most in league after KDB.
Ollie Watkins scored 26 goals last season.
Expected goals XG :25 goals
Watkins outperformed his XG.
Last season Watkins displayed outstanding finishing ability. Scoring every chance expected of him +1!
In the centre forward role he's shown to take his chances.
So basically if we create chances OW will be expected to score- literally!
Post by: ozzjim on September 09, 2020, 07:33:23 AM
Appears Vill I An is right Chris.
I do like that at the bottom of that stat is the form of Brentfords next opponent.
Post by: chrisw1 on September 09, 2020, 07:41:10 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on September 09, 2020, 07:44:53 AM
https://fortheloveofpaulmcgrath.podbean.com/e/%F0%9F%8Evillaanalytics-is-back-to-chat-about-what-advanced-analytics-are-how-ollie-watkins-looks-through-that-lens%99%F0%9F%8E/
Post by: ozzjim on September 09, 2020, 07:46:08 AM
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on September 09, 2020, 08:07:28 AM
All sounds very promising.
Post by: algy on September 09, 2020, 08:29:55 AM
Don't think anyone knows how he will turn out. You cant judge a players chances of success at the prem by the championship anymore than you can judge a player from the Belgium 1st division and i heard the same arguments last summer. All we know is Smith has bet the farm on him, and in 12 months time, he'll either be gone or people will be aiming plaudits at him for buying a player no-one else would gamble on.Smith has worked with him in the past at Brentford, and also been fairly knowledgeable about his career before that having presumably had some influence / prior knowledge to Brentford signing him. Any transfer's a gamble, but in the grand scheme of things it's a pretty safe one. He'll know exactly what he can offer, and what his attitude's like. Even if we have overpaid for him, it's worthwhile because it's still cheaper than buying 2x £15m players from abroad and hoping that one hits the ground running (or a £10m and £20m player in Wes & Samatta's case).
place your bets now....
Post by: Nii Lamptey on September 09, 2020, 08:34:38 AM
Post by: Chris_Jephcott on September 09, 2020, 08:55:53 AM
Half our problem last season was pure wastefulness of chances. See El Ghazi vs Everton, Samatta in his debut, Davis vs Arsenal etc... I reckon if we put our mind to it, we could name at least 20 very good squandered chances last season. If we scored at least half of those, I doubt we would have been in the position we were in the end - El Ghazi vs Everton being a great example. If that goes in, it’s 3 more points and we go into the last day safely.
We were creating chances, we just weren’t clinical.
With Watkins being another Abraham type goal scorer, I genuinely have hope that we might have found that particular missing piece of the puzzle. What I’m saying is that with a more clinical finisher, we would have been pushing more towards mid table.
Our next piece of the puzzle is Defence. It improved post lockdown quite considerably - do I have confidence that this is solved yet? No. But I think it’s a work in progress and the experience Last seasons of both Mings and Konsa will have helped greatly. We concede less of those last minute goals, our league position will be much better. How many points did we lose in the last 10 minutes last season?? Far too many...
The final piece for me will be the wingers. I don’t believe El Ghazi is good enough, although I really wish he was. Even in the Championship, he blew hot and cold. He was exceptional against the Baggies but bang average in many other games.
Trezeguet has a cunning knack of being in the right place at the right time, so I believe he’s worth a punt next season. I’m convinced there is a player in there and that he’ll be much better this season. In reality, I’d take one more winger on balance to help provide the chances for Watkins.
On balance though, I believe Watkins will prove your be a very astute and positive signing for us. We continue setting up those chances next season, and have learnt the lessons from last season too, we will do better this year. It’s a lot of money for an unproven striker in the Premier League, but until last season, Abraham hadn’t done much either.
Post by: simboy on September 09, 2020, 09:03:31 AM
£28 million rising to £33 million if he’s a success? Heres to paying £33 million.
Post by: Drummond on September 09, 2020, 09:05:46 AM
I like that he'll be able to play on his own or to the side of someone else. Think of Davis' hold up play and someone like Watkins with pace connecting with him. Could be brilliant.
Post by: Mister E on September 09, 2020, 09:08:26 AM
https://www.infogol.net/en/player/ollie-watkins/16309Only made 50% of his expected assists - get rid now!
Appears Vill I An is right Chris.
I do like that at the bottom of that stat is the form of Brentfords next opponent.
Post by: Risso on September 09, 2020, 09:15:35 AM
Post by: Drummond on September 09, 2020, 09:17:04 AM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 09, 2020, 09:18:58 AM
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 09, 2020, 09:35:18 AM
Deano knows what he's doing he's looked at things and got his appropriate striker.Are you sure about that XG stat footy? I heard the Villa analytics guy off twitter on a podcast a while back and he said Watkins xg last year was 36, so he underperformed. He spun it as a good thing as it showed ho much more potential to improve he has
Last season we needed a centre forward to score from all those chances Grealish created -2nd most in league after KDB.
Ollie Watkins scored 26 goals last season.
Expected goals XG :25 goals
Watkins outperformed his XG.
Last season Watkins displayed outstanding finishing ability. Scoring every chance expected of him +1!
In the centre forward role he's shown to take his chances.
So basically if we create chances OW will be expected to score- literally!
36 XG is high ! Maybe they combined the Watkins and Brentford XG together as a measurement?
Thanks for putting up podcast , new one one me, haven't had chance to listen but hope to check it out sometime.
Up the Villa.
Post by: maidstonevillain on September 09, 2020, 09:35:47 AM
The Brentford fans seem to say he works extremely hard, is good in the air and with both feet and has pace.
All sounds very promising.
They also say he went missing when the pressure was on.
Post by: chrisw1 on September 09, 2020, 09:37:37 AM
He does say different agencies count the chances differently on XG and 36 was one of the higher ones. Either way, he was really positive about him, as am I. Villa Analytics is well worth following on Twitter - he'd be right up your street footy.Deano knows what he's doing he's looked at things and got his appropriate striker.Are you sure about that XG stat footy? I heard the Villa analytics guy off twitter on a podcast a while back and he said Watkins xg last year was 36, so he underperformed. He spun it as a good thing as it showed ho much more potential to improve he has
Last season we needed a centre forward to score from all those chances Grealish created -2nd most in league after KDB.
Ollie Watkins scored 26 goals last season.
Expected goals XG :25 goals
Watkins outperformed his XG.
Last season Watkins displayed outstanding finishing ability. Scoring every chance expected of him +1!
In the centre forward role he's shown to take his chances.
So basically if we create chances OW will be expected to score- literally!
36 XG is high ! Maybe they combined the Watkins and Brentford XG together as a measurement?
Thanks for putting up podcast , new one one me, haven't had chance to listen but hope to check it out sometime.
Up the Villa.
Post by: dave shelley on September 09, 2020, 09:45:49 AM
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 09, 2020, 09:54:12 AM
I just wonder if he's got the all round game to be a success in the Premier League. I've not seen lots of him play, but from the video of all his goals last season, 90% of them seem to be tap ins from good work from the rest of the Brentford team, against some dodgy Championship defending. We've had our fingers burnt buying a Brentford player who just scored tap ins in the past, so is this going to be different? Please tell me it is!
Yes I think he can be more success than Hogan.
What's super is he's both footed can strike goals with either foot.
Do also check out his goalscoring exploits for Exeter too
1 min 28 the goal v Plymouth 2016 very special and my favourite! Some other very good ones
https://youtu.be/gvRRHpc31jg
His goals are very varied and with both feet .
Not all high XG as he scored a few from distance.
Yes hiis amount of goals were scored last season on a plate though he has shown he finishes chances and underlying stats are good as a central striker.
Plays all the front 3 positions and hoping Dean can progress him further.
He's better than Hogan I think.
I hope you enjoy the Exeter goals.
Post by: sid1964 on September 09, 2020, 09:55:10 AM
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 09, 2020, 09:56:17 AM
Post by: mallo on September 09, 2020, 09:56:39 AM
Post by: sickbeggar on September 09, 2020, 10:17:30 AM
Championship forwards who scored over 20 goals in a season 16
Not played in the Premiership - 3
Of the rest.
Number who have scored 15 or over in the Premiership since - 1 or 7.7%
Number who scored 10 or over in premiership since - 5 or 38.4%
No prizes for guessing who the 1 is
Post by: chrisw1 on September 09, 2020, 10:34:08 AM
https://twitter.com/greggevans40/status/1303625397570019332?s=20
Post by: chrisw1 on September 09, 2020, 10:46:56 AM
The Athletic: Tottenham were Villa’s main rivals for Watkins. He was open to the move and confident he would have enjoyed plenty of game time across numerous competitions. However, Spurs were not in a position to move quickly because of the finances involved.
https://twitter.com/thespursweb/status/1303628388075266053?s=20
Post by: OCD on September 09, 2020, 10:48:59 AM
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 09, 2020, 10:49:05 AM
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 09, 2020, 10:50:35 AM
Gregg Evans reporting that his medical is complete.
https://twitter.com/greggevans40/status/1303625397570019332?s=20
Nice one Chris!
Always find Evans has a bit of ITK about him .
More reliable than most.
I've deemed that him and Percy are the go to on any Villa deals. DT Percy I learnt from H & V to be reliable.
Pat Murphy BBC use to have good offerings too.
And Regan on WM has some knowledge I think ? But the
rest of them like Matt Law and Alan Nixon are a mixed bunch when it comes to any villa info and are as hit as they are miss.
Outside of purely Villa related Fabrizio Romano is on the money with his ITK for many transfers !
Don't know if anyone else has any recommendations but haven't seen many other sources as good as Gregg Evans and Jon Percy for ITKs
Post by: The Edge on September 09, 2020, 10:57:52 AM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 09, 2020, 10:59:19 AM
We also had an argument about whether we were definitely getting relegated a couple of months ago.Yes we did. What's your point?
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 09, 2020, 11:01:59 AM
Villa’s local rivals West Brom were too, however their proposal of a loan with an option to buy was considered a non-starter.
Typical Smethwick cheap skates.
Post by: OCD on September 09, 2020, 11:07:03 AM
Post by: eamonn on September 09, 2020, 11:15:42 AM
We also had an argument about whether we were definitely getting relegated a couple of months ago.Yes we did. What's your point?
That you're sooo negative about the Villa (winky)
Anyway, apparently it's 20 years to the day that Luc Nilis' career was ended at Ipswich. Might be an idea to show Ollie his goal against Chelsea and tell him to mix-up a few tap-ins with swivel-worldies like that one.
Post by: PGW on September 09, 2020, 11:27:14 AM
Sounds like West Brom blew their budget on Diagana and are now reliant on loans.Aren't we supposedly interested in taking Gallagher on loan from Chelsea
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 09, 2020, 11:27:53 AM
We also had an argument about whether we were definitely getting relegated a couple of months ago.Yes we did. What's your point?
That you were wrong then and just as likely to be wrong now.
Post by: sid1964 on September 09, 2020, 11:30:43 AM
Post by: eamonn on September 09, 2020, 11:30:57 AM
Sounds like West Brom blew their budget on Diagana and are now reliant on loans.Aren't we supposedly interested in taking Gallagher on loan from Chelsea
Only if the middle 'g' is silent.
Post by: lovejoy on September 09, 2020, 11:33:33 AM
Post by: jwarry on September 09, 2020, 11:35:25 AM
It's official.
More pleased about this than if we got Wilson
Post by: Dave P on September 09, 2020, 11:38:29 AM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 09, 2020, 11:38:31 AM
It's official.
More pleased about this than if we got Wilson
I just read that as "More pleased about this than when we got Whelan"!
Post by: Drummond on September 09, 2020, 11:39:41 AM
Post by: jwarry on September 09, 2020, 11:39:58 AM
It's official.
More pleased about this than if we got Wilson
I just read that as "More pleased about this than when we got Whelan"!
That as well
Post by: Dave P on September 09, 2020, 11:40:26 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 09, 2020, 11:43:37 AM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 09, 2020, 11:44:03 AM
Jesus wept. Grow up.We also had an argument about whether we were definitely getting relegated a couple of months ago.Yes we did. What's your point?
That you were wrong then and just as likely to be wrong now.
Post by: chrisw1 on September 09, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 09, 2020, 11:49:35 AM
Jesus wept. Grow up.We also had an argument about whether we were definitely getting relegated a couple of months ago.Yes we did. What's your point?
That you were wrong then and just as likely to be wrong now.
Endless tantrums about endless aspects of the club and I'm the one who has to grow up?
Post by: Brend'Watkins on September 09, 2020, 11:50:07 AM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 09, 2020, 11:51:04 AM
Endless tantrums about endless aspects of the club and I'm the one who has to grow up?Yes, and as quickly as possible please.
Post by: DB on September 09, 2020, 11:51:08 AM
Good news. Welcome Ollie, please be 10 times better than the last striker we got from Brentford.
Or any of our current strikers.
Post by: Gary Penrice on September 09, 2020, 11:51:41 AM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 09, 2020, 11:53:43 AM
Endless tantrums about endless aspects of the club and I'm the one who has to grow up?Yes, and as quickly as possible please.
If growing up entails having to constantly moan about just about everything I'll give it a miss.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on September 09, 2020, 11:54:47 AM
Good news. Welcome Ollie, please be 10 times better than the last striker we got from Brentford.
Or any of our current strikers.
Quite. If he’s 10 times better than Hogan he will be. I’m hoping he’s the best striker we’ve ever signed but 10 times better than Hogan should at least make him decent.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 09, 2020, 11:55:00 AM
Post by: JUAN PABLO on September 09, 2020, 11:55:14 AM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 09, 2020, 11:58:58 AM
Alright, tell me what is so incorrect, intolerable or outrageous about what I said here that's prompted this outburst.Endless tantrums about endless aspects of the club and I'm the one who has to grow up?Yes, and as quickly as possible please.
If growing up entails having to constantly moan about just about everything I'll give it a miss.
"Didn't we have this exact argument last year? I thought at the end of the season just gone there was consensus that we erred too far towards potential + inexperience and badly needed a few experienced heads. So far we've spent what £43M+ on two lads with no PL experience whatsoever. Okay, you lose money on older players with no resale value but that's not why you're buying them. You're buying them because the team - particularly the inexperienced lads - needs them. In fact, you really shouldn't be buying one without the other and I fully expect us to bring in a couple before the end of the window."
What's so infuriating about that that's made you lose your shit this morning?
Post by: Clampy on September 09, 2020, 12:00:07 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 09, 2020, 12:01:53 PM
Alright, tell me what is so incorrect, intolerable or outrageous about what I said here that's prompted this outburst.Endless tantrums about endless aspects of the club and I'm the one who has to grow up?Yes, and as quickly as possible please.
If growing up entails having to constantly moan about just about everything I'll give it a miss.
"Didn't we have this exact argument last year? I thought at the end of the season just gone there was consensus that we erred too far towards potential + inexperience and badly needed a few experienced heads. So far we've spent what £43M+ on two lads with no PL experience whatsoever. Okay, you lose money on older players with no resale value but that's not why you're buying them. You're buying them because the team - particularly the inexperienced lads - needs them. In fact, you really shouldn't be buying one without the other and I fully expect us to bring in a couple before the end of the window."
What's so infuriating about that that's made you lose your shit this morning?
I have complete security in the knowledge of the location of my shit.
Let's just leave it.
Post by: Villa Lew on September 09, 2020, 12:04:48 PM
Post by: Diablo on September 09, 2020, 12:06:40 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 09, 2020, 12:07:03 PM
I have complete security in the knowledge of the location of my shit.I think everyone who reads this forum can see where your shit is.
But, yes let's leave it. Don't reply to my stuff and I won't reply to yours.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 09, 2020, 12:11:21 PM
Post by: OCD on September 09, 2020, 12:11:45 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 09, 2020, 12:13:21 PM
Post by: maidstonevillain on September 09, 2020, 12:15:02 PM
Welcome Ollie. Your signing has crashed the Villa website so you're already having an impact!Wait until we sell Hogan. It will go into meltdown.
Post by: olaftab on September 09, 2020, 12:15:28 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 09, 2020, 12:17:24 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 09, 2020, 12:17:56 PM
In fact, you really shouldn't be buying one without the other and I fully expect us to bring in a couple before the end of the window."
I think if that's your expectation for the club then you're going to be regularly disappointed under the current owners.
Everything they've said and done in the last couple of years screams out that they don't want to be buying players older than about 27-28 and 22-25 is more realistic. They spoken about being sustainable as a business, we've had scouts talking about identifying when a performance boost from a player looks likely, we've signed a DoF from a club that has specialised in signing players on the way up to flip for a profit. On top of that we're throwing resources at the academy and talking about how to create a pipeline from there into the first team and identifying players capable of that step up earlier in their development through loans, etc.
I'd put money on the plan being that the first team squad grow together for a year or 2 and then they become the experienced pros that all our new signings can learn from. Smith talked about the importance of attitude when it comes to signings and that leans into the same concept, we want players who turn up willing to learn and adapt. If we sign older players it will be because they have an attitude that we want our young players to learn from, Heaton is a great example.
Post by: Drummond on September 09, 2020, 12:20:07 PM
I have complete security in the knowledge of the location of my shit.I think everyone who reads this forum can see where your shit is.
But, yes let's leave it. Don't reply to my stuff and I won't reply to yours.
I reckon you could have a thread of your own soon. ;)
Post by: Dave P on September 09, 2020, 12:21:29 PM
Welcome Ollie. Your signing has crashed the Villa website so you're already having an impact!Wait until we sell Hogan. It will go into meltdown.
Nah, we wont be online as we'll be having street parties.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 09, 2020, 12:23:02 PM
That's exactly the point I'm making. In pretty much every end-of-season review I read over the summer, as well as on here, our lack of experience was mentioned as a reason we struggled. All I'm saying is that I wouldn't want us to make the same mistake this year.In fact, you really shouldn't be buying one without the other and I fully expect us to bring in a couple before the end of the window."If we sign older players it will be because they have an attitude that we want our young players to learn from, Heaton is a great example.
Post by: LeeB on September 09, 2020, 12:25:26 PM
Alright, tell me what is so incorrect, intolerable or outrageous about what I said here that's prompted this outburst.Endless tantrums about endless aspects of the club and I'm the one who has to grow up?Yes, and as quickly as possible please.
If growing up entails having to constantly moan about just about everything I'll give it a miss.
"Didn't we have this exact argument last year? I thought at the end of the season just gone there was consensus that we erred too far towards potential + inexperience and badly needed a few experienced heads. So far we've spent what £43M+ on two lads with no PL experience whatsoever. Okay, you lose money on older players with no resale value but that's not why you're buying them. You're buying them because the team - particularly the inexperienced lads - needs them. In fact, you really shouldn't be buying one without the other and I fully expect us to bring in a couple before the end of the window."
What's so infuriating about that that's made you lose your shit this morning?
I'm not taking sides on this, but the 'fact' you mention is a supposition.
Post by: Ian. on September 09, 2020, 12:28:05 PM
Is Watkins the first former Weston-Super-Mare player that Villa have signed ?That's just such an ace fact. I've grown up since moving to Devon in 83 with this being my main source of football.
Post by: danno on September 09, 2020, 12:28:28 PM
I can't remember who it was Clampy was having handbags with last year but it was as boring to read as anything I've ever posted. And I am one dull bstrd.
Post by: FatSam on September 09, 2020, 12:36:26 PM
I can remember him being touted as a hot prospect when he was with Exeter, so in future it would be good to be in a position (i.e. more established in the EPL) to pick-up similar players one step earlier and take the risk on their potential being fulfilled.
Anyway, score 15 goals this season and he will have justified the fee straight away. Welcome Ollie, and good luck!
Post by: OCD on September 09, 2020, 12:44:36 PM
I can remember him being touted as a hot prospect when he was with Exeter, so in future it would be good to be in a position (i.e. more established in the EPL) to pick-up similar players one step earlier and take the risk on their potential being fulfilled.
Yes, it would be good to be in a position where we could hoover up some of the best young players and send them out on loan straight away for first team experience.
Post by: paul_e on September 09, 2020, 12:45:53 PM
That's exactly the point I'm making. In pretty much every end-of-season review I read over the summer, as well as on here, our lack of experience was mentioned as a reason we struggled. All I'm saying is that I wouldn't want us to make the same mistake this year.In fact, you really shouldn't be buying one without the other and I fully expect us to bring in a couple before the end of the window."If we sign older players it will be because they have an attitude that we want our young players to learn from, Heaton is a great example.
Very different circumstances though. Last year the squad had about 100 premier league appearances between them other than Heaton. One season on and there's a much better understanding of the demands of the league within the squad. I don't have a problem with us signing a more experienced player or 2 but fitting in with the squad and adding to the team spirit we have is far more important.
Post by: Drummond on September 09, 2020, 12:49:27 PM
I can remember him being touted as a hot prospect when he was with Exeter, so in future it would be good to be in a position (i.e. more established in the EPL) to pick-up similar players one step earlier and take the risk on their potential being fulfilled.
Yes, it would be good to be in a position where we could hoover up some of the best young players and send them out on loan straight away for first team experience.
I think the signings of Chrisene and Barry indicate that's the sort of plan we're heading for... though I think doing a bit of development in house first to get them understanding the style of the club is a good idea...
Post by: Risso on September 09, 2020, 12:49:40 PM
Post by: Villafirst on September 09, 2020, 12:50:36 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 09, 2020, 12:53:56 PM
I can remember him being touted as a hot prospect when he was with Exeter, so in future it would be good to be in a position (i.e. more established in the EPL) to pick-up similar players one step earlier and take the risk on their potential being fulfilled.
Yes, it would be good to be in a position where we could hoover up some of the best young players and send them out on loan straight away for first team experience.
I think the signings of Chrisene and Barry indicate that's the sort of plan we're heading for... though I think doing a bit of development in house first to get them understanding the style of the club is a good idea...
I suspect 12-18months with the academy/U23s and then we'll make a decision on whether to blood them with us or send them out for 6-12months.
Post by: eamonn on September 09, 2020, 01:02:15 PM
Post by: Risso on September 09, 2020, 01:04:07 PM
Post by: eamonn on September 09, 2020, 01:06:23 PM
Post by: Ian. on September 09, 2020, 01:08:08 PM
So when Chrisene sells for £100M we can retire his shirt.I can remember him being touted as a hot prospect when he was with Exeter, so in future it would be good to be in a position (i.e. more established in the EPL) to pick-up similar players one step earlier and take the risk on their potential being fulfilled.
Yes, it would be good to be in a position where we could hoover up some of the best young players and send them out on loan straight away for first team experience.
I think the signings of Chrisene and Barry indicate that's the sort of plan we're heading for... though I think doing a bit of development in house first to get them understanding the style of the club is a good idea...
Post by: SamTheMouse on September 09, 2020, 01:13:24 PM
Post by: Ian. on September 09, 2020, 01:15:33 PM
Post by: sickbeggar on September 09, 2020, 01:16:19 PM
Post by: Nunkin1965 on September 09, 2020, 01:21:11 PM
Do we know how much Exeter City gets from this deal? I would hope it's a fair chunk of money.Did I read somewhere it’s something like £6 million?
I might be way off though.
Post by: Ian. on September 09, 2020, 01:23:56 PM
That's promising if true. I've tried to look and see but can't see anything reported yet.Do we know how much Exeter City gets from this deal? I would hope it's a fair chunk of money.Did I read somewhere it’s something like £6 million?
I might be way off though.
Post by: Stu on September 09, 2020, 01:24:17 PM
Best of british luck ollie. In 5 years time may we find you with 100+ goals, sleeping in a pile of 50 pound notes and with a ridiculous WAG in tow, rather than in the priory between dogging adventures and fights with weathergirls
This is weird.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 09, 2020, 01:26:01 PM
Is Watkins the first former Weston-Super-Mare player that Villa have signed ?That's just such an ace fact. I've grown up since moving to Devon in 83 with this being my main source of football.
With an ex-Chippenham Town player in Mings, it's pretty good for South West (ish) representation
Post by: UK Redsox on September 09, 2020, 01:29:32 PM
That's promising if true. I've tried to look and see but can't see anything reported yet.Do we know how much Exeter City gets from this deal? I would hope it's a fair chunk of money.Did I read somewhere it’s something like £6 million?
I might be way off though.
Per 'Devon Live' ......"The Grecians received a fee of around £1.8m when they sold Watkins three years ago and negotiated a 15 per cent sell-on clause when selling him to Brentford."
Post by: Ian. on September 09, 2020, 01:37:42 PM
Get on, I never knew that. I have great memories watching Dawlish Town play in the 80's in the Western League, playing the likes of Chippenham and Western-Super-Mare. I managed to skipper the seconds for a while and the odd sub appearance for the first team in the 90's. They have folded now, such a great shame.Is Watkins the first former Weston-Super-Mare player that Villa have signed ?That's just such an ace fact. I've grown up since moving to Devon in 83 with this being my main source of football.
With an ex-Chippenham Town player in Mings, it's pretty good for South West (ish) representation
Post by: kipeye on September 09, 2020, 01:39:12 PM
How many of the above bought by Smith. Wes and sammatta yes, but none of these.Crazy money. He will get my 100% support but I sure hope this ends better than our recent history of buying overly expensive strikers from the Championship - Hogan, McCormack, Gestede, Kodija ......
Bit harsh on Kod he did perfectly well for us.
Post by: kipeye on September 09, 2020, 01:40:41 PM
Is Watkins the first former Weston-Super-Mare player that Villa have signed ?Practically Brum-On-Sea. So, a homegrown player.
Post by: ozzjim on September 09, 2020, 01:42:46 PM
I am going for 12 to be a good season (1 in 3) and he will get 14.
Post by: Mister E on September 09, 2020, 01:52:49 PM
I read that Exeter would get 15% of the fee; so, just over £4m.Do we know how much Exeter City gets from this deal? I would hope it's a fair chunk of money.Did I read somewhere it’s something like £6 million?
I might be way off though.
Post by: usav on September 09, 2020, 01:58:34 PM
Post by: RamboandBruno on September 09, 2020, 02:00:22 PM
Post by: Monty on September 09, 2020, 02:26:04 PM
Post by: rob_bridge on September 09, 2020, 02:54:00 PM
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 09, 2020, 02:54:54 PM
Post by: SheffieldVillain on September 09, 2020, 02:59:41 PM
Really?
Sigurdsson - 45m
Iwobi - 34m
Moise Kean - 25m
Tosun - 27m
Mina - 27m
How did they work out then?
Post by: Risso on September 09, 2020, 03:01:00 PM
Got my first comment on the BBC transfer feed - some dickhead Everton fan was holding forth about Watkins being the most overpriced signing ever.
Really?
Sigurdsson - 45m
Iwobi - 34m
Moise Kean - 25m
Tosun - 27m
Mina - 27m
How did they work out then?
That's without including what they paid Wayne Rooney!
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 09, 2020, 03:06:24 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 09, 2020, 03:11:14 PM
They mentioned this in the Guardian piece about Everton's prospects for 2020/21, describing the fee as "scarcely believable". I looked up his stats and realised that "scarcely believable" is an understatement.
Iwobi - 34m
Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 09, 2020, 03:11:51 PM
I've been getting stick off glory hunting mates about spending all this money on someone they'd never heard of. Given he was Championship player of the year I think that says more about their ignorance than anything else. One of them is an Arsenal "fan" so I said less than half the price of Pepe but hopefully better.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on September 09, 2020, 03:11:55 PM
Post by: Risso on September 09, 2020, 03:13:37 PM
How does one change their user name in honour of our most expensive striker who will undoubtedly be the best striker we've ever had? The last user name change I made was for the signing of N'Zogbia. Now that I'm over the shitness of the shit jacket waste of space I feel I should Watkins-ize my user name. Anyway, I forgot how I did it.
You have to request it from martin these days I believe.
Post by: Drummond on September 09, 2020, 03:16:11 PM
How does one change their user name in honour of our most expensive striker who will undoubtedly be the best striker we've ever had? The last user name change I made was for the signing of N'Zogbia. Now that I'm over the shitness of the shit jacket waste of space I feel I should Watkins-ize my user name. Anyway, I forgot how I did it.
Brennikins?
Post by: Brend'Watkins on September 09, 2020, 03:19:33 PM
How does one change their user name in honour of our most expensive striker who will undoubtedly be the best striker we've ever had? The last user name change I made was for the signing of N'Zogbia. Now that I'm over the shitness of the shit jacket waste of space I feel I should Watkins-ize my user name. Anyway, I forgot how I did it.
Brennikins?
ha ha.
Post by: WilliamStanding on September 09, 2020, 03:20:28 PM
Post by: enigma on September 09, 2020, 03:29:41 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on September 09, 2020, 03:31:34 PM
Wonder how much he'll cost in the fantasy football. I'm struggling for decent strikers in that. I've got Keinan Davis FFS.Thinking the same, worth a punt if he's in the £5-6m bracket.
Post by: mr underhill on September 09, 2020, 03:36:46 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on September 09, 2020, 03:39:47 PM
How does one change their user name in honour of our most expensive striker who will undoubtedly be the best striker we've ever had? The last user name change I made was for the signing of N'Zogbia. Now that I'm over the shitness of the shit jacket waste of space I feel I should Watkins-ize my user name. Anyway, I forgot how I did it.
Plenty to work with Oliver George Arthur Watkins. O'GAWD?
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on September 09, 2020, 03:49:15 PM
Best of british luck ollie. In 5 years time may we find you with 100+ goals, sleeping in a pile of 50 pound notes and with a ridiculous WAG in tow, rather than in the priory between dogging adventures and fights with weathergirls
Yes, don't get clinical depression because there are plenty who would blame you for it.
Post by: LeeB on September 09, 2020, 03:58:13 PM
Can we all be friends and agree that the club video on Twitter announcing his arrival was more than a bit raunchy?
It came with a warning on Twitter!
Post by: rob_bridge on September 09, 2020, 03:58:37 PM
How many goals do we think represents a decent season, and how many do we think he will score.
I am going for 12 to be a good season (1 in 3) and he will get 14.
12 League goals would be a good return. Like Wesley was on for pre injury
Post by: ozzjim on September 09, 2020, 04:05:15 PM
Can we all be friends and agree that the club video on Twitter announcing his arrival was more than a bit raunchy?
It came with a warning on Twitter!
Which one?!
Post by: LeeB on September 09, 2020, 04:05:48 PM
Can we all be friends and agree that the club video on Twitter announcing his arrival was more than a bit raunchy?
It came with a warning on Twitter!
Which one?!
The 'reveal' one.
Post by: ozzjim on September 09, 2020, 04:06:16 PM
Post by: Monty on September 09, 2020, 04:07:49 PM
Can we all be friends and agree that the club video on Twitter announcing his arrival was more than a bit raunchy?
It came with a warning on Twitter!
Which one?!
The 'reveal' one.
'Reveal' is the word, accompanied by some very smooth soft softcore pulsing.
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 09, 2020, 04:12:32 PM
Post by: villabear on September 09, 2020, 04:32:51 PM
He’ll do for me.
Post by: Nii Lamptey on September 09, 2020, 04:34:19 PM
Post by: danno on September 09, 2020, 04:42:01 PM
Post by: Rory on September 09, 2020, 04:49:20 PM
Have they said what number he'll be wearing?
Does it matter?
Don't mean that in an aggressive way, just wondering if people have a preference, because it's never something that occurs to me.
Post by: Monty on September 09, 2020, 04:53:37 PM
Have they said what number he'll be wearing?
Does it matter?
Don't mean that in an aggressive way, just wondering if people have a preference, because it's never something that occurs to me.
I guess sometimes it indicates something about what the player thinks of themselves. I was reading an interview with Anthony Martial recently where he talked about the subtle change in mentality involved in getting the no. 9 back.
Post by: Rory on September 09, 2020, 04:57:32 PM
Have they said what number he'll be wearing?
Does it matter?
Don't mean that in an aggressive way, just wondering if people have a preference, because it's never something that occurs to me.
I guess sometimes it indicates something about what the player thinks of themselves. I was reading an interview with Anthony Martial recently where he talked about the subtle change in mentality involved in getting the no. 9 back.
Interesting. Wasn't Harewood our number 9 one season?
Post by: Monty on September 09, 2020, 04:59:36 PM
Have they said what number he'll be wearing?
Does it matter?
Don't mean that in an aggressive way, just wondering if people have a preference, because it's never something that occurs to me.
I guess sometimes it indicates something about what the player thinks of themselves. I was reading an interview with Anthony Martial recently where he talked about the subtle change in mentality involved in getting the no. 9 back.
Interesting. Wasn't Harewood our number 9 one season?
I think that said more about MON's mentality.
Post by: danno on September 09, 2020, 05:04:09 PM
Have they said what number he'll be wearing?
Does it matter?
Don't mean that in an aggressive way, just wondering if people have a preference, because it's never something that occurs to me.
No it doesn't matter, it just seemed odd that you can win a shirt with his name and number on but they hadn't said what he was going to have.
Any football romantics out there would probably want him to have the number 9.
Although given the track record of some players we've had wear that for us recently (Helenius Ireland ) perhaps they wouldn't!
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on September 09, 2020, 05:27:28 PM
Post by: Rory on September 09, 2020, 05:29:18 PM
Have they said what number he'll be wearing?
Does it matter?
Don't mean that in an aggressive way, just wondering if people have a preference, because it's never something that occurs to me.
No it doesn't matter, it just seemed odd that you can win a shirt with his name and number on but they hadn't said what he was going to have.
I hadn't thought about that!
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on September 09, 2020, 05:30:58 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 09, 2020, 05:31:57 PM
Have they said what number he'll be wearing?
Does it matter?
Don't mean that in an aggressive way, just wondering if people have a preference, because it's never something that occurs to me.
I guess sometimes it indicates something about what the player thinks of themselves. I was reading an interview with Anthony Martial recently where he talked about the subtle change in mentality involved in getting the no. 9 back.
Interesting. Wasn't Harewood our number 9 one season?
So did that other legend, Stephen Ireland
Post by: Drummond on September 09, 2020, 05:35:20 PM
Have they said what number he'll be wearing?
Does it matter?
Don't mean that in an aggressive way, just wondering if people have a preference, because it's never something that occurs to me.
I guess sometimes it indicates something about what the player thinks of themselves. I was reading an interview with Anthony Martial recently where he talked about the subtle change in mentality involved in getting the no. 9 back.
Interesting. Wasn't Harewood our number 9 one season?
Shudder
Post by: Drummond on September 09, 2020, 05:35:52 PM
Have they said what number he'll be wearing?
Does it matter?
Don't mean that in an aggressive way, just wondering if people have a preference, because it's never something that occurs to me.
I guess sometimes it indicates something about what the player thinks of themselves. I was reading an interview with Anthony Martial recently where he talked about the subtle change in mentality involved in getting the no. 9 back.
Interesting. Wasn't Harewood our number 9 one season?
So did that other legend, Stephen Ireland
Double shudder
Post by: ldavfc4eva on September 09, 2020, 05:38:26 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on September 09, 2020, 05:41:16 PM
Interesting. Wasn't Harewood our number 9 one season?and Steven Ireland was one season too....
Post by: darren woolley on September 09, 2020, 05:43:24 PM
Post by: Ad@m on September 09, 2020, 06:05:52 PM
Post by: john e on September 09, 2020, 06:14:02 PM
I'm feeling chuffed about it
and I don't give two hoots about what we paid
Post by: N'ZMAV on September 09, 2020, 06:14:28 PM
We really have had some absolute dross wearing the number 9 shirt haven't we.not just 9...
Post by: john e on September 09, 2020, 06:18:34 PM
We really have had some absolute dross wearing the number 9 shirt haven't we.not just 9...
Pick a number...any number
Post by: CT on September 09, 2020, 06:24:39 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 09, 2020, 06:27:49 PM
Post by: Risso on September 09, 2020, 07:22:50 PM
Have they said what number he'll be wearing?
Does it matter?
Don't mean that in an aggressive way, just wondering if people have a preference, because it's never something that occurs to me.
I guess sometimes it indicates something about what the player thinks of themselves. I was reading an interview with Anthony Martial recently where he talked about the subtle change in mentality involved in getting the no. 9 back.
Interesting. Wasn't Harewood our number 9 one season?
So did that other legend, Stephen Ireland
Scott Sinclair
Post by: Ger Regan on September 09, 2020, 07:44:05 PM
Post by: frankmosswasmyuncle on September 09, 2020, 08:39:42 PM
Be brilliant!
We need a bloody good goalscorer to hero worship.
Hope it's you!
Post by: West Derby Villan on September 09, 2020, 08:48:50 PM
Post by: LeeB on September 09, 2020, 09:09:43 PM
How long before we see Petrov interviewing him for AVTV? My money's on before the end of the month.
Stan and Ollie? That would be another fine mess
Post by: dave.woodhall on September 09, 2020, 09:33:10 PM
Is Watkins the first former Weston-Super-Mare player that Villa have signed ?Practically Brum-On-Sea. So, a homegrown player.
Sea?
Post by: OCD on September 09, 2020, 09:35:43 PM
Post by: algy on September 09, 2020, 09:49:03 PM
Wasn't it Exeter who we recently signed a kid from and they were highly complementary of how we conducted ourselves?Yeah. Seems they've done well from us this summer. That young kid, then £4.2m for Watkins ...
Post by: themossman on September 09, 2020, 09:50:41 PM
Post by: eamonn on September 10, 2020, 01:20:00 AM
Post by: robbo1874 on September 10, 2020, 05:28:08 AM
4, 5, 16, 18 & 19 all going spare!18 then- double good !!
Post by: jwarry on September 10, 2020, 01:57:44 PM
Post by: Drummond on September 10, 2020, 01:58:56 PM
Having pored over some of the Brentford fans forums there appears to be a unanimous view that Wilkins is the best striker they have ever had. They say he has skill but is also a prodigious worker and generally good bloke. Sure we’ve coughed up but he might just turn out to be the centre forward we have craved for years, possibly since JPA
Ray's brother?
Post by: Risso on September 10, 2020, 02:03:19 PM
Having pored over some of the Brentford fans forums there appears to be a unanimous view that Wilkins is the best striker they have ever had. They say he has skill but is also a prodigious worker and generally good bloke. Sure we’ve coughed up but he might just turn out to be the centre forward we have craved for years, possibly since JPA
Benteke?
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 10, 2020, 02:07:31 PM
Having pored over some of the Brentford fans forums there appears to be a unanimous view that Wilkins is the best striker they have ever had. They say he has skill but is also a prodigious worker and generally good bloke. Sure we’ve coughed up but he might just turn out to be the centre forward we have craved for years, possibly since JPA
Benteke?
How quick we forget! Ollie will have done very well indeed to get to the levels that Benteke hit. Let’s hope he can.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on September 10, 2020, 02:11:56 PM
Having pored over some of the Brentford fans forums there appears to be a unanimous view that Wilkins is the best striker they have ever had. They say he has skill but is also a prodigious worker and generally good bloke. Sure we’ve coughed up but he might just turn out to be the centre forward we have craved for years, possibly since JPA
That's very encouraging. If by the end of the season we are saying similar we will have someone special. Let's hope he will be coveted by ManU et al by the end of the season such is the way of things.
Post by: Rigadon on September 10, 2020, 02:15:29 PM
Post by: Ger Regan on September 10, 2020, 02:16:21 PM
Post by: jwarry on September 10, 2020, 02:19:40 PM
Having pored over some of the Brentford fans forums there appears to be a unanimous view that Wilkins is the best striker they have ever had. They say he has skill but is also a prodigious worker and generally good bloke. Sure we’ve coughed up but he might just turn out to be the centre forward we have craved for years, possibly since JPA
Benteke?
Oops!
Post by: LeeB on September 10, 2020, 02:19:51 PM
Has he done the "delighted to be joining a massive club and I've always respected the gaffer and I want to show the fans what I'm capable of" interview yet?
Yes, pretty much word for word!
Post by: placeforparks on September 10, 2020, 02:50:27 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/Qj2hbGJ/Annotation-2020-09-10-144716.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
Post by: Smithy on September 10, 2020, 02:54:13 PM
Has he done the "delighted to be joining a massive club and I've always respected the gaffer and I want to show the fans what I'm capable of" interview yet?
Yes, pretty much word for word!
Has any player, for any club, ever given an interview on signing similar to the Mourinho arrival at Chelsea? As in "I'm special, I'll work hard, but you're lucky to have me"?
I'd love to see something like that!
Post by: KevinGage on September 10, 2020, 03:00:28 PM
"Richard, why have you joined Aston Villa?"
Dunne: "Because Manchester City sold me."
Love at first bite. He was motivated to prove them wrong in his first season, it seems. After that, not so much.
Post by: danno on September 10, 2020, 03:02:50 PM
Post by: LeeB on September 10, 2020, 05:07:48 PM
Has he done the "delighted to be joining a massive club and I've always respected the gaffer and I want to show the fans what I'm capable of" interview yet?
Yes, pretty much word for word!
Has any player, for any club, ever given an interview on signing similar to the Mourinho arrival at Chelsea? As in "I'm special, I'll work hard, but you're lucky to have me"?
I'd love to see something like that!
Sometimes a picture says so much more than words ever could:
(https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article2026183.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200c/WEST-BROMWICH-ALBION-Nicolas-Anelka-signed-from-Juventus-on-a-free.jpg)
Post by: algy on September 10, 2020, 05:26:50 PM
saw something great on twitter earlier. first class from our club and ollie.There's a bit of background to that here: https://www.brentfordfc.com/news/2019/march/woodys-story/
(https://i.ibb.co/Qj2hbGJ/Annotation-2020-09-10-144716.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
But Ollie comes across as a good 'un.
Post by: eamonn on September 10, 2020, 05:35:15 PM
Having pored over some of the Brentford fans forums there appears to be a unanimous view that Wilkins is the best striker they have ever had. They say he has skill but is also a prodigious worker and generally good bloke. Sure we’ve coughed up but he might just turn out to be the centre forward we have craved for years, possibly since JPA
Ray's brother?
I still find it hard to believe that Butch coached for us and that he is now dead.
Post by: SaddVillan on September 10, 2020, 06:06:22 PM
How much would Exeter's annual budget be? Have we propped them up for another year while also paying for half of Brentford's new stadium? I hope they remember this altruism if we draw either of them in the cups.
Exeter City FC posted a loss of more than £700,000 for the year ending June 30, 2019, the club’s annual accounts have revealed.
Turnover for the period was £4,079,870, down 2.5 per cent on the prior year, which the club have put down to the involvement that the Grecians had in the play-offs the previous season.
So £4.2m will be very welcome to them.
Post by: SheffieldVillain on September 10, 2020, 06:22:08 PM
He has joined Aguero and Kane in my top class 3 man forward line with Grealish backing them up from midfield.
Post by: Louzie0 on September 10, 2020, 06:48:27 PM
Welcome Ollie!
Post by: pelty on September 10, 2020, 06:49:20 PM
Post by: four fornicholl on September 10, 2020, 07:12:02 PM
Post by: eamonn on September 10, 2020, 09:53:03 PM
How much would Exeter's annual budget be? Have we propped them up for another year while also paying for half of Brentford's new stadium? I hope they remember this altruism if we draw either of them in the cups.
Exeter City FC posted a loss of more than £700,000 for the year ending June 30, 2019, the club’s annual accounts have revealed.
Turnover for the period was £4,079,870, down 2.5 per cent on the prior year, which the club have put down to the involvement that the Grecians had in the play-offs the previous season.
So £4.2m will be very welcome to them.
Cheers. Incredible then, exceeds a year of revenue.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 10, 2020, 10:09:53 PM
Has he done the "delighted to be joining a massive club and I've always respected the gaffer and I want to show the fans what I'm capable of" interview yet?
Yes, pretty much word for word!
Has any player, for any club, ever given an interview on signing similar to the Mourinho arrival at Chelsea? As in "I'm special, I'll work hard, but you're lucky to have me"?
I'd love to see something like that!
The current Albion manager (whose name currently escapes me) did something similar when he was appointed. I'm obviously paraphrasing, but I remember something along of "yes, I'm lucky to be coming to such a great club. In truth, they're also lucky to have me."
Post by: Brend'Watkins on September 11, 2020, 07:40:08 AM
Has anyone worked up some version of “Oliver’s Army” to sing from the stands? Seems like it could be a good one...
Oliver Watkins is here to stay
Oliver Watkins will score all day
And I would rather be nowhere else when Oliver Watkins plays.
Post by: LeeB on September 11, 2020, 07:51:40 AM
Has anyone worked up some version of “Oliver’s Army” to sing from the stands? Seems like it could be a good one...
Oliver Watkins is here to stay
Oliver Watkins will score all day
And I would rather be nowhere else when Oliver Watkins plays.
Please God no, I can’t stand that song.
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 11, 2020, 08:00:06 AM
;)Has anyone worked up some version of “Oliver’s Army” to sing from the stands? Seems like it could be a good one...
Brend Watkins is here to say
Brend Watkins will sing all day
And I would rather be anywhere else if Brend Watkins stays
Wo oh oh oh o
Post by: Laurence on September 11, 2020, 09:03:53 AM
Post by: Drummond on September 11, 2020, 11:35:39 AM
Post by: Drummond on September 11, 2020, 03:48:36 PM
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on September 11, 2020, 03:53:49 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 11, 2020, 03:59:00 PM
Marvelous toking the 19 shirt.
If he's toking on a shirt I can't imagine he'll be feeling marvelous.
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on September 11, 2020, 04:00:33 PM
Post by: Mister E on September 11, 2020, 05:45:21 PM
Marvelous toking the 19 shirt.He's a joker.
Post by: Ian. on September 11, 2020, 05:54:09 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 15, 2020, 11:50:04 PM
He took his goal with ease but missed a very easy chance.
Think he'll be fine and hoping for the 15+ goals this season
Well played ollie
Post by: Ads on September 15, 2020, 11:57:08 PM
Traore has an excellent cross success rate in Ligue 1, so hopefully Watkins benefits. I like him.
Post by: West Derby Villan on September 16, 2020, 08:58:39 AM
Post by: Clampy on September 16, 2020, 09:03:15 AM
Post by: Risso on September 16, 2020, 09:03:37 AM
V burton could have more than his solitary goal and great to see a proper striker for us .
He took his goal with ease but missed a very easy chance.
Think he'll be fine and hoping for the 15+ goals this season
Well played ollie
Same as in the friendly against Man U. Scored a good goal, and then missed a bit of a sitter. It shows he's getting into the right positions though, and his finishing will improve at this level as he plays more.
Post by: rob_bridge on September 16, 2020, 09:04:18 AM
Post by: boozey182 on September 16, 2020, 09:28:16 AM
He'll score plenty with decent service, I have no concerns about him at all. Having said that, I think he'll end up playing on the wing a fair bit as the season goes on. Nothing more than a hunch, but I reckon we're still after a Tammy/Edouard type to play as our number 9.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 16, 2020, 09:33:37 AM
Nothing more than a hunch, but I reckon we're still after a Tammy/Edouard type to play as our number 9.
Watkins is very similar to Tammy. Put the ball in the 6 yard box and he's on it. Edouard is more like Benteke (Villa version), he can score all types of goals from all over the pitch. I'd love us to sign him. He's the right age and think he'll go on to be a top striker.
Post by: paul_e on September 16, 2020, 09:41:50 AM
Post by: Drummond on September 16, 2020, 09:45:35 AM
Post by: OCD on September 16, 2020, 11:01:33 AM
I've said it before but it really wouldn't surprise me if, at times, we see Grelaish as a 10 with 2 wide strikers in front of him, Watkins, Traore, Wesley and Davis would all work in those roles and Rashica would be a good alternative at 10 as well. Add a midfielder who can run beyond the 10 and get into the box (which is what Ramsey has done for years at age group level and he seems to be right in the mix this season) and you have good approximation of how Liverpool setup and I've thought for a long time that Smith is trying to take us in that direction.
I think we're trying to set-up like Liverpool too.
With Watkins' goal there were 2 players who had gone into good positions. Watkins and Ramsey, who could have easily been on the end of the cross. Last season we probably wouldn't have had anyone in the box. The 2 that were weren't part of the first team last season.
Did anyone else notice that with the one where Watkins hit the bar, the ball took a small bobble right before he hit it?
Post by: john e on September 16, 2020, 12:51:06 PM
He reminded me so much of Tammy. I think he's going to score quite a few goals for us.
yes i agree very similar
and that's no bad thing
and like Tammy he will score a plenty miss plenty but overall we will have a much greater attacking threat with him at the front of it
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 16, 2020, 12:54:11 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 16, 2020, 01:02:39 PM
Post by: exigo on September 16, 2020, 01:17:29 PM
Post by: Ger Regan on September 16, 2020, 01:54:30 PM
Post by: Risso on September 16, 2020, 02:38:04 PM
He's very quick too, isn't he? At least compared to our other options up front he is.
Quicker than Concrete Boots Wesley, Wading Through Treacle Trezeguet or Is He Actually Moving El Ghazi? I refuse to believe it!
Post by: Villafirst on September 16, 2020, 07:16:13 PM
He's very quick too, isn't he? At least compared to our other options up front he is.
Quicker than Concrete Boots Wesley, Wading Through Treacle Trezeguet or Is He Actually Moving El Ghazi? I refuse to believe it!
El Ghazi used to have a decent turn of pace. What happened to that? His confidence looks shot, terrible ball retention and rubbish corner kicks. Why didn't DS take him off at Half-time?
Post by: enigma on September 16, 2020, 07:29:33 PM
He cost me last night!Yep. Annoyed he got taken off with 20 minutes to go!
Post by: Mister E on September 20, 2020, 04:44:58 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 20, 2020, 04:51:28 PM
Post by: eamonn on September 20, 2020, 04:56:10 PM
Post by: Mister E on September 20, 2020, 05:00:02 PM
Nookay, thx.
Given the number of penalties being awarded and reflecting on Ayew's wholly-inept effort yesterday I hope that Smith has given dome focus on this. I'm not sure who our established penalty-taker is: i don't recall us winning many last season (Wes took one and missed at Naaarrrich).
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 20, 2020, 05:28:05 PM
Nookay, thx.
Given the number of penalties being awarded and reflecting on Ayew's wholly-inept effort yesterday I hope that Smith has given dome focus on this. I'm not sure who our established penalty-taker is: i don't recall us winning many last season (Wes took one and missed at Naaarrrich).
I think Hourihane, if he's on the pitch, should take them.
Post by: Mister E on September 20, 2020, 05:57:03 PM
Presumably, he won't be in the starting 11 often, so it needs more than him.Nookay, thx.
Given the number of penalties being awarded and reflecting on Ayew's wholly-inept effort yesterday I hope that Smith has given dome focus on this. I'm not sure who our established penalty-taker is: i don't recall us winning many last season (Wes took one and missed at Naaarrrich).
I think Hourihane, if he's on the pitch, should take them.
Post by: SheffieldVillain on September 20, 2020, 06:23:51 PM
Centre forwards should always want to take penalties to my mind, and be allowed to unless there's an obviously outstanding candidate with a great record somewhere else in the team. If you don't back yourself to score one on one with the keeper as a striker and get an easy 3 or 4 goals (or 15 if you play for United) in a season, there's surely something wrong with your confidence. I vaguely remember one of our strikers years ago, maybe Julian Joachim, saying he didn't like taking them and thought it was a bit odd.
Post by: OCD on September 20, 2020, 06:37:05 PM
Post by: Bad English on September 20, 2020, 08:30:12 PM
Post by: aldridgeboy on September 21, 2020, 03:40:35 AM
Post by: sid1964 on September 21, 2020, 07:39:08 AM
Post by: ozzjim on September 21, 2020, 07:45:14 AM
Post by: AV82EC on September 21, 2020, 07:50:16 AM
it will be interesting to see how he does tonight against a couple of tough centre halfs
A couple? Don’t Sheff U play with 3?
Post by: fbriai on September 21, 2020, 07:54:49 AM
The clamp down yesterday, with De Gea moving a fraction off his line , must really favour penalty takers this season.
I think you are right in general, but watching Ayew's and Jorginho's penalties over the weekend, I think the new rule may actually work against players who do these stupid run-ups and then side-foot the ball into one of the corners. That works fine if they keeper has already made up his mind and gone bundling off his line in one direction or the other, but they are now moving later, giving them a fraction of a second more time to see where the ball is going.
Post by: Drummond on September 21, 2020, 10:54:32 AM
I'd definitely give them to Ollie but think Jack will be our penalty taker this year.
Centre forwards should always want to take penalties to my mind, and be allowed to unless there's an obviously outstanding candidate with a great record somewhere else in the team. If you don't back yourself to score one on one with the keeper as a striker and get an easy 3 or 4 goals (or 15 if you play for United) in a season, there's surely something wrong with your confidence. I vaguely remember one of our strikers years ago, maybe Julian Joachim, saying he didn't like taking them and thought it was a bit odd.
I know what you mean but I think I prefer it for pens taken elsewhere in the team. A miss could really hurt confidence for a striker as the expectation is there. Watkins would be far better anticipating a rebound to finish it than anyone else too.
I'd give them to Grealish or SJM but Traore may fancy it too...
Post by: Risso on September 21, 2020, 10:57:29 AM
I'd definitely give them to Ollie but think Jack will be our penalty taker this year.
Centre forwards should always want to take penalties to my mind, and be allowed to unless there's an obviously outstanding candidate with a great record somewhere else in the team. If you don't back yourself to score one on one with the keeper as a striker and get an easy 3 or 4 goals (or 15 if you play for United) in a season, there's surely something wrong with your confidence. I vaguely remember one of our strikers years ago, maybe Julian Joachim, saying he didn't like taking them and thought it was a bit odd.
I know what you mean but I think I prefer it for pens taken elsewhere in the team. A miss could really hurt confidence for a striker as the expectation is there. Watkins would be far better anticipating a rebound to finish it than anyone else too.
I'd give them to Grealish or SJM but Traore may fancy it too...
Luiz can leather a ball, I'd maybe give him a try. Expect it'll be Jack though.
Post by: Drummond on September 21, 2020, 10:58:28 AM
I'd definitely give them to Ollie but think Jack will be our penalty taker this year.
Centre forwards should always want to take penalties to my mind, and be allowed to unless there's an obviously outstanding candidate with a great record somewhere else in the team. If you don't back yourself to score one on one with the keeper as a striker and get an easy 3 or 4 goals (or 15 if you play for United) in a season, there's surely something wrong with your confidence. I vaguely remember one of our strikers years ago, maybe Julian Joachim, saying he didn't like taking them and thought it was a bit odd.
I know what you mean but I think I prefer it for pens taken elsewhere in the team. A miss could really hurt confidence for a striker as the expectation is there. Watkins would be far better anticipating a rebound to finish it than anyone else too.
I'd give them to Grealish or SJM but Traore may fancy it too...
Luiz can leather a ball, I'd maybe give him a try. Expect it'll be Jack though.
True. And agreed.
Post by: Steve67 on September 21, 2020, 08:34:32 PM
Post by: OCD on September 21, 2020, 08:38:10 PM
Post by: West Derby Villan on September 21, 2020, 08:38:33 PM
Post by: sickbeggar on September 21, 2020, 08:40:18 PM
Post by: Ian. on September 21, 2020, 08:43:32 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 21, 2020, 09:20:30 PM
Post by: Drummond on September 21, 2020, 10:08:58 PM
Thought he did okay. must be already pining for the service he got at Brentford though.
Rubbish.
Post by: exigo on September 21, 2020, 10:09:50 PM
it will be interesting to see how he does tonight against a couple of tough centre halfs
A couple? Don’t Sheff U play with 3?
About seven at last count.
Post by: brontebilly on September 21, 2020, 10:11:06 PM
Post by: andyh on September 21, 2020, 10:11:43 PM
He’ll be ok.
Post by: sickbeggar on September 21, 2020, 10:25:13 PM
Thought he did okay. must be already pining for the service he got at Brentford though.
Rubbish.
Really? You thought he had loads of chances created for him then?
Post by: Ian. on September 21, 2020, 10:28:11 PM
I'm sure he'd rather be playing for Villa than Brentford.Thought he did okay. must be already pining for the service he got at Brentford though.
Rubbish.
Really? You thought he had loads of chances created for him then?
Post by: sickbeggar on September 21, 2020, 10:30:23 PM
Post by: Ads on September 21, 2020, 11:10:13 PM
Post by: LukeJames on September 21, 2020, 11:42:12 PM
Post by: richtheholtender on September 22, 2020, 12:23:49 AM
Post by: Matt C on September 22, 2020, 03:01:16 AM
Post by: sid1964 on September 22, 2020, 07:31:41 AM
Post by: N'ZMAV on September 22, 2020, 07:33:34 AM
Hopefully we don't ruin this striker, we've ruined a lot in the past.
Post by: themossman on September 22, 2020, 08:19:12 AM
He’ll play in more expansive games than that, sheff Utd must be about as hard a game a striker could face, so hard to judge his reaction to the step up in quality of defenders yet.
Post by: LeeB on September 22, 2020, 08:20:30 AM
Post by: Axl Rose on September 22, 2020, 08:24:04 AM
Post by: Drummond on September 22, 2020, 10:12:45 AM
He just has that instinct that good strikers have.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on September 22, 2020, 11:17:36 AM
Post by: Dante Lavelli on September 22, 2020, 06:59:54 PM
Post by: darren woolley on September 23, 2020, 09:45:39 AM
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 23, 2020, 10:32:59 AM
Wheres Marcus Stewart of Ipswich and Kevin Phillips (Sunderland days) in your lists, Footy? Didn't they pwn the Prem in the early years of the nu millenia ?They were just outside of the cut of point of last 20 or so seasons .
Shows us not many get 15+ premier league goals in debut seasons
Post by: darren woolley on September 24, 2020, 09:25:36 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 24, 2020, 09:28:07 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 24, 2020, 09:28:57 PM
Post by: darren woolley on September 24, 2020, 09:29:21 PM
He gets into key positions which is a great trait to have as a forward. He seems to just know where to be.
I agree.
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on September 24, 2020, 10:12:29 PM
He's got two goals in three games albeit in the cup but I think he will score a lot more for us he's carried on where he left off last season.
3 in 4 if you include the Manure friendly
Post by: brian green on September 25, 2020, 08:09:05 AM
Post by: Drummond on September 25, 2020, 11:56:02 AM
He is a natural, instinctive goal poacher the like of which we have not had since the days of Gary Shaw, Dwight Yorke and to slightly lesser degree Darren Bent. He will do us well.
It's just so nice to see after years without it, just knowing your striker will be on the end of a loose ball is a great feeling.
Post by: Flamingo Lane on September 25, 2020, 12:07:59 PM
Post by: FatSam on September 25, 2020, 12:12:13 PM
I liked the way he took his goal last night, letting the ball run across him, and using his left foot, when taking it with his right might have been the natural thing to have done. It shows he is full of confidence and enjoying the challenge that comes with the step up.I agree, but he has probably played in the 3rd round of the Carabao Cup before. Let’s see how he does in the EPL. I’m hopeful.
Post by: mallo on September 25, 2020, 12:12:40 PM
I agree as well - he seems to find 2 yards all the time - that's why his Brentford goals look like tap ins - he's in the right place, which as has been proven by our last umpteen strikers it's not as simple as it looks.He gets into key positions which is a great trait to have as a forward. He seems to just know where to be.
I agree.
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on September 25, 2020, 12:32:35 PM
I agree as well - he seems to find 2 yards all the time - that's why his Brentford goals look like tap ins - he's in the right place, which as has been proven by our last umpteen strikers it's not as simple as it looks.He gets into key positions which is a great trait to have as a forward. He seems to just know where to be.
I agree.
Platt was the absolute master at this, hence his incredible goal return from Midfield for us. Superb player.
Post by: Neil Hawkes on September 25, 2020, 01:40:58 PM
He started the move & finished with a goal. Be happy brother.I liked the way he took his goal last night, letting the ball run across him, and using his left foot, when taking it with his right might have been the natural thing to have done. It shows he is full of confidence and enjoying the challenge that comes with the step up.I agree, but he has probably played in the 3rd round of the Carabao Cup before. Let’s see how he does in the EPL. I’m hopeful.
Post by: ktvillan on September 25, 2020, 02:52:41 PM
If I'm being hyper-critical, he had three very good chances last night and converted one - I doubt he'll get three clear chances per game in the PL that often. It may be he wasn't quite up to speed or tuned in having come on late.
Also for one of them he could have laid it off to Trez who was better positioned and wide open - but I'd say that's a sign of a striker's natural desire to hit the net and back himself (aside from the fact that a ball to Trez is too often a wasted one).
I'm confident he'll get a decent return of goals for us based on what I've seen so far.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 25, 2020, 03:53:06 PM
I think he looks very promising and capable, his runs are excellent and he finds space where others can't.
Cracking explanation here as to how Ollie developed by his manager at Exeter (apologies if it's been posted before):
Post by: LeeB on September 25, 2020, 04:32:22 PM
I think he looks very promising and capable, his runs are excellent and he finds space where others can't.
Cracking explanation here as to how Ollie developed by his manager at Exeter (apologies if it's been posted before):
That's ace, I love that.
Post by: The Charmer on September 25, 2020, 05:02:11 PM
Hearing about the tweaks and changes to the game of, what he admits, was already a promising young player was really interesting.
Even better, he's now at the Villa and seems to have the character and attitude to do something very special.
Post by: OCD on September 25, 2020, 05:13:11 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 25, 2020, 05:42:00 PM
Post by: Mister E on September 25, 2020, 06:30:39 PM
There's a lot of young players who would benefit from watching that video.Like Keinan?!
Post by: oldtimernow on September 25, 2020, 07:12:57 PM
Compare with Steve Bruce...
Post by: supertom on September 25, 2020, 08:33:00 PM
Post by: JD on September 26, 2020, 09:51:29 AM
I think he looks very promising and capable, his runs are excellent and he finds space where others can't.
Cracking explanation here as to how Ollie developed by his manager at Exeter (apologies if it's been posted before):
Thanks Mark that's a great post.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on September 26, 2020, 10:07:34 AM
I think he looks very promising and capable, his runs are excellent and he finds space where others can't.
Cracking explanation here as to how Ollie developed by his manager at Exeter (apologies if it's been posted before):
Thanks Mark that's a great post.
Hadn’t seen this before. What a great bit of coaching.
Post by: algy on September 26, 2020, 10:41:04 AM
Just watched it myself - brilliant post. Like that Paul Tilsdale chap, comes across as a really good coach.I think he looks very promising and capable, his runs are excellent and he finds space where others can't.
Cracking explanation here as to how Ollie developed by his manager at Exeter (apologies if it's been posted before):
Thanks Mark that's a great post.
Hadn’t seen this before. What a great bit of coaching.
Post by: Monty on September 26, 2020, 10:58:04 AM
Post by: manic-road on October 04, 2020, 08:10:38 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 04, 2020, 09:12:31 PM
Post by: Smithy on October 04, 2020, 09:15:36 PM
First half hatrick against Pool, incredible.
Correction, first-half PERFECT hat-trick against the Champions...
Post by: Ian. on October 04, 2020, 09:16:21 PM
Post by: LukeJames on October 04, 2020, 09:16:29 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 04, 2020, 09:16:47 PM
Post by: Mister E on October 04, 2020, 09:26:52 PM
Disappointed he didn't score the one-on-one.
Post by: LukeJames on October 04, 2020, 09:29:13 PM
Post by: Neil Hawkes on October 04, 2020, 09:30:44 PM
Post by: Tayls_7 on October 04, 2020, 09:33:02 PM
Post by: SheffieldVillain on October 04, 2020, 09:41:30 PM
Post by: supertom on October 04, 2020, 09:43:44 PM
Post by: SamTheMouse on October 04, 2020, 09:45:26 PM
We've got a gem on our hands, by the look of it.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 04, 2020, 09:50:25 PM
Post by: Risso on October 04, 2020, 09:54:11 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on October 04, 2020, 09:54:55 PM
Edit: I meant that to go on the Ross Barkley thread. But what the fuck, let's spread the love.
Post by: Ian. on October 04, 2020, 09:55:51 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 04, 2020, 09:55:56 PM
One of the best debuts I've seen. Right up there with Stan.
And Didier Six.
Post by: paul_e on October 04, 2020, 10:01:18 PM
You look at his stature and struggle to see how he's going to cope physically against big centre halves, yet somehow he wins a very high proportion of high balls and recycles possession really efficiently.
We've got a gem on our hands, by the look of it.
it's because he jumps really well, gets up early, loads of height and hangs there for a moment.
Post by: robleflaneur on October 04, 2020, 10:09:23 PM
Post by: Smithy on October 04, 2020, 10:14:33 PM
I also loved the tinge of disappointment for missing his 1-on-1 in his post-match interview - That drive to improve and do better will take him up to even higher performance levels.
I think he's going to score a lot of goals for us...
Post by: Dante Lavelli on October 04, 2020, 10:18:25 PM
He'd already impressed me without scoring, but today he got the goals his work so far had deserved. I did worry he might just be a poacher and not much else but he's very good all round, has a bit of nous, works the channels well and reads Jack very well. I think he'll hit 20 this season. He'll make a few too and I think there's a certain benefit he has from having been a wideman before. I guess like Henry. If he's half as good as Thierry, he'll do alright.
I previously said he looked like Bent on this thread but today he looked better. Held up the ball and looked like he could beat a defender. Fingers crossed he is the complete forward, the signs are good (caveat, we just won 7-2).
Post by: LeeB on October 04, 2020, 10:27:23 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on October 04, 2020, 10:32:04 PM
Quote
[Ollie] Watkins wow
Post by: garyfouroaks on October 04, 2020, 10:32:15 PM
Post by: ColinMac on October 04, 2020, 10:34:34 PM
One of the best debuts I've seen. Right up there with Stan.
And Didier Six.
Not a patch on This debut against Norwich
Post by: Risso on October 04, 2020, 10:34:50 PM
There's an efficiency about his play that's really impressed me from the off, this lad is going right to the top. With us.
He looks like he genuinely could play anywhere in the front three.
Post by: ColinMac on October 04, 2020, 10:37:31 PM
Post by: richtheholtender on October 04, 2020, 10:51:43 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on October 04, 2020, 10:53:35 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on October 04, 2020, 10:58:50 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on October 04, 2020, 10:59:28 PM
Watkins gives us pace, strength and an outball.. he stretches the opposition defence, he's a Gabby before he bulked up, once Wesley is fit he better get used to sitting on the bench
Trying to not get too carried away after that performance from him, but goals aside, think his work-rate has been really impressive.
When it went to 5-2 and another goal for them might have changed the complexion of the game, he scrapped really hard to hold the ball up a couple of times and it just took a bit of pressure off.
His second goal was superb.
Post by: Somniloquism on October 04, 2020, 11:06:07 PM
Watkins gives us pace, strength and an outball.. he stretches the opposition defence, he's a Gabby before he bulked up, once Wesley is fit he better get used to sitting on the bench
Trying to not get too carried away after that performance from him, but goals aside, think his work-rate has been really impressive.
When it went to 5-2 and another goal for them might have changed the complexion of the game, he scrapped really hard to hold the ball up a couple of times and it just took a bit of pressure off.
His second goal was superb.
TBF, all three were class. First one his pressure forced the error and then he knew he had time to take a touch and put it in. Other strikers could have tried hitting it first time and screwed it up.
The second with the link up play and then the run and the last the header, had such power and precision that even if the keeper was well positioned it wouldn't have been stopped. A perfect hat trick as well.
And as Shearer pointed out a perfect Hat trick.
Post by: Ads on October 04, 2020, 11:06:40 PM
He looks to be a really good prospect.
Post by: Monty on October 04, 2020, 11:08:30 PM
Post by: Risso on October 04, 2020, 11:12:10 PM
Post by: Steve67 on October 04, 2020, 11:18:20 PM
I was most impressed by how much of a bully he is. He moves defenders around, hits space, knows where the back of the net is, but physically he competes too. Absolutely bullied van Dijk and Gomez.
He looks to be a really good prospect.
This. He looks like a really good prospect. Good movement and upper body strength. I like the way he tells himself off when he misses a chance. Sounds like a really humble and eager to please young man. Quality acquisition, looks a snip. 5 goals already?
Post by: Somniloquism on October 04, 2020, 11:22:49 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on October 05, 2020, 12:00:33 AM
I was most impressed by how much of a bully he is. He moves defenders around, hits space, knows where the back of the net is, but physically he competes too. Absolutely bullied van Dijk and Gomez.
He looks to be a really good prospect.
There was one passage of play in the second half where the ball got played down the line and van Dijk got their first and was heading back towards his own goal. Instead of giving it up as a lost cause and dropping off, Watkins chased him down and forced him to put the ball out, getting us a throw in deep in their half.
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 05, 2020, 12:08:26 AM
He's got two goals in three games albeit in the cup but I think he will score a lot more for us he's carried on where he left off last season.
3 in 4 if you include the Manure friendly
2 down 18 to go for 20 in goals in all comps.
Looks quite the goal scorer and hoping he flourish against Fulham Monday after his poor show in Play Off final against them.
My Forecast for Premier league goals is set at 11-14 goals
That's based on solid research. So is most likely around this figure. (If not more! But provisos number of minutes for the season)
In the premier league.
Anything above is outstanding on a debut season .15+ goals is rare occurrence debut or otherwise
Anything below 11 is underwhelming.
Provided he is our main striker.
And providing he plays a decent amount of 30+ games
Superb hat trick tonight.
Perfect .
Dream land.
So that's 5 goals 15 to go for 20 in all comps.
3 goals premier league with the fantastic hat trick and as he said it could have been 4 or 5
Love this guy's attitude and sheer team play . Great Instincts and just loves Deano.
So happy he's our main man and very good things are happening !
Bravo Ollie Bravo!
Well on the way to hitting premier league goal targets
Superb man
Post by: ozzjim on October 05, 2020, 12:14:34 AM
I was most impressed by how much of a bully he is. He moves defenders around, hits space, knows where the back of the net is, but physically he competes too. Absolutely bullied van Dijk and Gomez.
He looks to be a really good prospect.
There was one passage of play in the second half where the ball got played down the line and van Dijk got their first and was heading back towards his own goal. Instead of giving it up as a lost cause and dropping off, Watkins chased him down and forced him to put the ball out, getting us a throw in deep in their half.
Said earlier on that even without a goal tonight, Watkins was my man of the match. I have not seen a striker work the line, tirelessly harass defenders AND make the ball stick up top like that in a long, long time. He was truly exceptional tonight, and deserved 5-6 goals in the end. He has exceptional movement in the box too. Kid will score a lot of goals, but his overall play is massive reason we can now spring out the way we do. We must find a suitable back up for him!
Post by: darren woolley on October 05, 2020, 12:21:45 AM
Post by: Monty on October 05, 2020, 01:22:53 AM
Post by: artvandelay on October 05, 2020, 01:24:02 AM
Post by: Monty on October 05, 2020, 01:25:21 AM
I don't want to piss on your chips but that literally means Villa Striker!
I did say limited! Bloody German, too much grammar; romance languages are more my speed.
Anyway, Villa-Stürmer-had-a-stormer still sounds nice.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 05, 2020, 01:53:14 AM
I did say limited! Bloody German, too much grammar; romance languages are more my speed.
Anyway, Villa-Stürmer-had-a-stormer still sounds nice.
No mention of a Villa-Blitzkrieg?
Post by: West Derby Villan on October 05, 2020, 09:22:57 AM
Ollie, Ollie, Ollie UTV !
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 05, 2020, 09:32:32 AM
Post by: Rory on October 05, 2020, 09:58:56 AM
Post by: sickbeggar on October 05, 2020, 10:48:49 AM
Post by: PGW on October 05, 2020, 10:51:18 AM
He is a serious striker, I’m struggling to see a weakness. He has a striker’s instinct, great pace, great movement, he holds the ball up well and he can head it. He is some player.A younger Jamie Vardy
Post by: Chris Smith on October 05, 2020, 11:01:38 AM
He is a serious striker, I’m struggling to see a weakness. He has a striker’s instinct, great pace, great movement, he holds the ball up well and he can head it. He is some player.
Agreed and on top of that he doesn’t stop working, giving his markers no time to settle.
Post by: FranzBiberkopf on October 05, 2020, 11:14:31 AM
His attitude looks spot in as well - reference his post match interview last night when he was humble and upset he didn't get more goals.
A great signing in the making.
Post by: German James on October 05, 2020, 11:15:36 AM
The headline on our local paper's report was "Aha! Herr Klopp! Für Sie, ist der Premierkrieg zu Ende! Hände hoch Schweinhund![sic] Gott im Himmel! Achtung: Spitfire!"I did say limited! Bloody German, too much grammar; romance languages are more my speed.
Anyway, Villa-Stürmer-had-a-stormer still sounds nice.
No mention of a Villa-Blitzkrieg?
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 05, 2020, 11:48:44 AM
The headline on our local paper's report was "Aha! Herr Klopp! Für Sie, ist der Premierkrieg zu Ende! Hände hoch Schweinhund![sic] Gott im Himmel! Achtung: Spitfire!"I did say limited! Bloody German, too much grammar; romance languages are more my speed.
Anyway, Villa-Stürmer-had-a-stormer still sounds nice.
No mention of a Villa-Blitzkrieg?
What's that in English? "Never were so many goals scored by so few due to no Mané"?
Post by: Mister E on October 05, 2020, 11:50:38 AM
Allisson was the big Miss for LiverpoolThe headline on our local paper's report was "Aha! Herr Klopp! Für Sie, ist der Premierkrieg zu Ende! Hände hoch Schweinhund![sic] Gott im Himmel! Achtung: Spitfire!"I did say limited! Bloody German, too much grammar; romance languages are more my speed.
Anyway, Villa-Stürmer-had-a-stormer still sounds nice.
No mention of a Villa-Blitzkrieg?
What's that in English? "Never were so many goals scored by so few due to no Mané"?
Post by: brontebilly on October 05, 2020, 12:27:31 PM
Brilliant second goal, absolute class that was. Fast, strong, aggressive, good technical skills. Wesley is like a bad dream in comparison.
Post by: usav on October 05, 2020, 12:50:47 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on October 05, 2020, 01:01:20 PM
Post by: Bad English on October 05, 2020, 01:19:38 PM
Cheeky fuckers! There is no shame in being destroyed by a team of our quality and pedigree.
Post by: KevinGage on October 05, 2020, 01:21:22 PM
Anyone mention the fact it was a perfect hattrick? (left, right, head)
Watkins himself, after the game.
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 05, 2020, 01:24:49 PM
Anyone mention the fact it was a perfect hattrick? (left, right, head)Sky Sports said so on their match report
Post by: Steve67 on October 05, 2020, 01:26:39 PM
Anyone mention the fact it was a perfect hattrick? (left, right, head)
Watkins himself, after the game.
And he was still humble and articulate enough to say he was frustrated with himself for hitting the bar and missing the one on one.
Post by: sickbeggar on October 05, 2020, 01:39:29 PM
Anyone mention the fact it was a perfect hattrick? (left, right, head)
Watkins himself, after the game.
And he was still humble and articulate enough to say he was frustrated with himself for hitting the bar and missing the one on one.
Nah, the last two make it an even rarer feat - The Davis Hattrick
Post by: WilliamStanding on October 05, 2020, 01:41:54 PM
Anyone mention the fact it was a perfect hattrick? (left, right, head)
Watkins himself, after the game.
And he was still humble and articulate enough to say he was frustrated with himself for hitting the bar and missing the one on one.
Nah, the last two make it an even rarer feat - The Davis Hattrick
Funniest quote in a while.
Post by: rooboy316 on October 05, 2020, 01:55:28 PM
Post by: danno on October 05, 2020, 02:11:55 PM
Post by: Iamkmkm on October 05, 2020, 02:34:12 PM
Post by: TonyD on October 05, 2020, 09:41:12 PM
Post by: supertom on October 05, 2020, 09:56:37 PM
Post by: ktvillan on October 06, 2020, 12:30:10 AM
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 06, 2020, 04:47:44 AM
Anyone mention the fact it was a perfect hattrick? (left, right, head)
The last one by a Villa player was Gabby vs Man City.
Post by: algy on October 06, 2020, 06:54:49 AM
Hehe.The headline on our local paper's report was "Aha! Herr Klopp! Für Sie, ist der Premierkrieg zu Ende! Hände hoch Schweinhund![sic] Gott im Himmel! Achtung: Spitfire!"I did say limited! Bloody German, too much grammar; romance languages are more my speed.
Anyway, Villa-Stürmer-had-a-stormer still sounds nice.
No mention of a Villa-Blitzkrieg?
Back on topic, I love Ollie Watkins. He's brilliant, seems a constant threat on the pitch and a lovely bloke off it. Struggling to think of a Villa side I'm my lifetime that I've liked as much as this one.
Post by: tim on October 06, 2020, 09:05:21 AM
Back on topic, I love Ollie Watkins. He's brilliant, seems a constant threat on the pitch and a lovely bloke off it. Struggling to think of a Villa side I'm my lifetime that I've liked as much as this one.
I loved that he was so up for it against Liverpool - really positive, appeared to be enjoying himself and looked really settled already.
And yeah, the team as a whole looks great again. Been a while since that could be said but right now there's quality all over it.
Post by: Stu on October 15, 2020, 02:02:07 PM
Quote
Ollie Watkins: the rise of ‘the machine’
In Ollie Watkins’ first training session at Aston Villa those around him immediately recognised a player ready for the step up to the Premier League.
His hard, unselfish running was not lost on the defenders who came up against pace and power of a different kind. Captain Jack Grealish was licking his lips with anticipation after watching Watkins’ early movement both in and out of possession, while on the sidelines manager Dean Smith and his long-term assistant, Richard O’Kelly, could see a different beast to the one they previously had at Brentford.
“He looked like a more mature and confident player right from the start,” Smith tells The Athletic. “He scored 26 goals last season and he believed he should have scored 36 as well which just shows he is not one who is going to rest on his laurels.”
Watkins, who sang Luther Vandross’s Never Too Much as his initiation song, backed up those early impressions in training by getting off to a flying start at Villa. After scoring in a pre-season friendly against Manchester United and then following it up with a goal on his debut against Burton Albion in the Carabao Cup, his perfect hat-trick in the 7-2 win over Liverpool in the last Premier League outing took his early tally to five goals in six games in all competitions.
Little over three weeks after that first training session, there was Watkins, standing under the Villa Park lights clutching onto the match ball for dear life. The chief executive Christian Purslow, the man who negotiated the record-breaking deal to bring him to the club for £28 million rising to a possible £33 million, was wrapping his arms around the striker as a global media scrum gathered.
His first words in reply to one question about his hat-trick was that he “should have had five goals rather than three”. There was nothing cocky or arrogant about his tone. He is down to earth. This was an in-form Premier League striker living in the moment.
It wasn’t always like this, though.
Ripping into the usually rock-solid defensive pairing of Virgil van Dijk and Joe Gomez and announcing himself on the global stage was the product of years of hard work.
That he recognises his previous times of struggle, and still has a never-ending desire to improve, will also keep him grounded.
In Watkins’ late teenage years at Exeter City, his game was in such a state that he still hadn’t nailed down a position of preference or strength. He could play down the middle or out wide, but wasn’t making any great gains. Those close to him speak about a defining period that helped shape his future, and also cement an early steeliness in his mindset.
Aged 18, he ditched the comfort of under-21 football at Exeter for a loan spell at Weston-super-Mare AFC, six divisions deep in the league pyramid.
Ryan Northmore, his manager at Weston, told The Times: “When I had him, he had real superpowers, but he was too predictable to play against.”
Yet that loan spell, where he scored ten goals in 24 games, was the making of him. He returned to Exeter with a purpose and was rough and ready. Not only had he shown courage to go and mix it with battled-hardened men, he also had the bumps and bruises to prove that he was up for the fight and worthy of consideration for the first-team.
After scraping onto a pre-season tour to Scotland in 2015 as the 24th man and the final pick, he didn’t look back.
Kevin Nicholson, his under-18 coach at Exeter tells The Athletic: “The potential was always there for Ollie. However, he needed support, guidance and good coaching from the people at the club at that time to help him on his way to fulfilling that potential. His technical and physical attributes were impressive from day one of working with him but he needed help to improve his general game understanding at that time.
“Credit should go to Paul Tisdale (manager) and Steve Perryman (director of football) for the work they did with Ollie at Exeter once he became a young professional with the first team.”
Tisdale worked tirelessly with Watkins, initially asking him to hustle more when playing in a wide position rather than simply waiting for the ball to come to him.
A slight tweak to his position at the back end of 2015 paid dividends. During his time at centre-forward he scored 25 goals in 74 games, earning him a move to Brentford.
It was here, in the Championship, where he took his game to a new level. None of it was left to chance, though, as one former staff member explained: “Ollie always wanted to know the areas where he could improve. He was a constant learner; always searching for ways he could better himself.”
Nicholson echoes such thoughts from his earlier years, adding: “Through the ups and downs, he never stopped believing in himself and his ability. He was prepared to work hard and he demanded honesty and feedback. He wanted to know what he was doing well and how he could build on it.”
Under Smith and O’Kelly in his first season at Brentford, Watkins scored ten league goals and missed just one game. He chalked up another ten strikes in the following season but the majority of the goals came from cutting in from the flank or playing as a supporting striker.
Pre-season training would often make for interesting viewing when Watkins was involved as he consistently topped the charts for speed, stamina, high-intensity sprints and a stack of other metrics.
Brentford’s programme editor, Chris Deacon, tells The Athletic: “Ollie transformed himself into a physical specimen. We’d call him a machine because it looked like he would set himself into third gear and then cruise along at the front while everyone else was blowing.”
It’s his blend of technical and physical attributes that have helped him settle into the Premier League with ease, but the 24-year-old’s sky-high confidence stems back to the start of last season.
It was when Brentford’s recognised No 9 Neal Maupay left for Brighton & Hove Albion that summer that those around Watkins sensed a coming of age. He took on the responsibility of becoming Brentford’s main source of goals and his hard work was rewarded with 26 strikes in return.
Coaching staff remember the early stages of that campaign where he asked for individual sessions to work on his movement and finishing to help him adjust to the change.
Watkins also dedicated time to improving his heading and the rewards could be seen in his performance for Villa against Fulham earlier this season where he dominated the defence.
It will come as a surprise to many that, among Premier League forwards, only Oli McBurnie (22) Andy Carroll (22) Dominic Calvert-Lewin (17) and Chris Wood (16) have won more headers then Watkins (15) this season. Maybe more telling is that, of those strikers, recognised for their aerial dominance, only Carroll (22 won, 10 lost) has a better win-to-lose ratio in headed duels.
Unwittingly, Watkins finds himself once again in a comparison contest with Fulham’s Aleksandar Mitrovic, the man who beat him to the top goalscorer award by a single goal last season, as both players have won and lost 15 headers a piece so far for their respective clubs and are seen as among the best in that particular category.
But such individuals battles are of little relevance to Watkins as one source said: ”He had no interest in what Mitrovic was doing last season, it was more about how he could get the better of the defender he came up against.”
It’s that attention to detail before a match day that is maybe giving him an edge.
He studies forthcoming opponents religiously before games and knows exactly the type of defenders he is coming up against. Pre-match analysis is, of course, common across every professional league in the country, but Watkins’ preparation is as detailed and thorough as you can get.
If a defender has slipped up in the past, or made a mistake that could be repeated, Watkins will try to expose that weakness himself. The way he hassles defenders and stretches the backline with his clever and unselfish runs into the channels that create space for his team-mates also helps.
He will also know exactly how the opponents like to play, as well as their strengths and weaknesses, as he asks for additional clips from analysts to aid his preparation.
It was clear that Watkins had done his homework on Liverpool. Immediately after the win he told Sky Sports how the team as a collective targeted their opponent’s high line. Deep down, he’d have also planned ways to unsettle Van Dijk and Gomez, although he remained respectful and humble enough to keep it private.
On top of his on-field qualities, there’s a likeable lad who receives glowing references from every club he has been at.
At Exeter his legacy lives on as they still show videos of their academy graduate to young players before training. A £4 million windfall from the deal that took him to Villa has also been well received.
Along with his goals, Brentford miss his cheeky smile, as well as his honesty and generosity as he always helped with charity events. The boy who parked himself in a modest apartment on the River Thames and shirked the lavish lifestyle of London after moving up from Devon will always be welcomed back with open arms.
There was never a change in his behaviour either as five clubs battled for his signature this summer. Watkins never let his standards drop. He was consistently friendly and engaging around the training ground right up until the day he cleared his locker to head up to Birmingham and complete his late-night move.
But it’s at Villa where he is progressing now and there’s a belief that the record-signing is very much the real deal.
Watkins’ consistency in front of goal is special. It’s over 18 months since he went longer than three games without scoring a league goal and Smith confidently revealed his thoughts about the man he has now signed twice.
“I have no doubts he will score goals for us this season and be a very much loved Aston Villa centre-forward,” he said.
The players feel the same too, and have noticed how he demands more from them in a measured but encouraging way.
He sets high standards and wants those around him to match up, but that’s nothing new; it has been the case since day one.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 15, 2020, 03:37:59 PM
Seriously, the spell down the pyramid will have done him good and help keep him grounded. Look forward to seeing him play in the flesh.
Post by: Somniloquism on October 15, 2020, 03:38:07 PM
But the main thing from that is that we seemed to have a hell of a person in Ollie.
Post by: LeeB on October 15, 2020, 03:53:50 PM
Cheers Stu. Luther Vandross? Bin him.
Seriously, the spell down the pyramid will have done him good and help keep him grounded. Look forward to seeing him play in the flesh.
Nooo, that's a top tune to attempt, it puts him even higher in my estimation. I bet he knocked it out of the park as well.
Post by: Somniloquism on October 15, 2020, 04:00:22 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on October 15, 2020, 04:02:54 PM
Is it just me or is Gregg Evans showing he actually is a decent journalist now he has left the Meaning?He ok. Better than a lot of people think and certainly not just a bitter Baggie as he often gets labelled. With that said I think he gets shown up by other Athletic journalists and I've rarely seen him come out with any detailed insightful commentary on our tactics etc which the likes of TIFO etc and Football 365 produce.
But the main thing from that is that we seemed to have a hell of a person in Ollie.
Post by: frankmosswasmyuncle on October 15, 2020, 08:41:06 PM
On the way to being a Villa hero!
UTV!
Post by: Rudy65 on October 15, 2020, 08:58:13 PM
Great article.
On the way to being a Villa hero!
UTV!
Just about to say the same thing. He is going to be a total hero at VP. Pace, power, great in the air and still way off his peak. Brilliant
Post by: KevinGage on October 15, 2020, 09:34:16 PM
Is it just me or is Gregg Evans showing he actually is a decent journalist now he has left the Meaning?
But the main thing from that is that we seemed to have a hell of a person in Ollie.
Not decent, but at least he seems to be getting original interviews now.
Rather than just rehashing whatever comes up in NewsNow and passing it off as his own work.
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on October 15, 2020, 09:43:58 PM
Its a bit of weird one for me. If I was lucky enough to be a football journalist being a Villa fan I couldn't imagine myself spending my life writing and watching the Albion..Is it just me or is Gregg Evans showing he actually is a decent journalist now he has left the Meaning?
But the main thing from that is that we seemed to have a hell of a person in Ollie.
Not decent, but at least he seems to be getting original interviews now.
Rather than just rehashing whatever comes up in NewsNow and passing it off as his own work.
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 15, 2020, 10:00:40 PM
Its a bit of weird one for me. If I was lucky enough to be a football journalist being a Villa fan I couldn't imagine myself spending my life writing and watching the Albion..Is it just me or is Gregg Evans showing he actually is a decent journalist now he has left the Meaning?
But the main thing from that is that we seemed to have a hell of a person in Ollie.
Not decent, but at least he seems to be getting original interviews now.
Rather than just rehashing whatever comes up in NewsNow and passing it off as his own work.
Yes ‘ they are shit ‘ end of article 🤔😀
Post by: Clive W on October 16, 2020, 09:25:15 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/10/16/ollie-watkins-interview-people-think-jump-championship-premier/
Post by: SaddVillan on October 17, 2020, 12:39:43 PM
Villa signed Ollie Watkins for £28m, rising to £33m with possible add-ons.
Wonder who's got the better deal?
Post by: Risso on October 17, 2020, 04:01:14 PM
Despite Benrhama failing his medical, West Ham still signed him on loan for £5m and are obliged to make the deal permanent for £20m, plus £5m possible in add-ons. £30m in total
Villa signed Ollie Watkins for £28m, rising to £33m with possible add-ons.
Wonder who's got the better deal?
Impossible to say before he's played a single minute for West Ham.
Post by: SheffieldVillain on October 17, 2020, 04:06:04 PM
But, an out-and-out 15-20 per season goalscorer in the Premier is worth their weight in gold and Watkins certainly seems that he could be that so far albeit on the evidence of the few games we've had.
Post by: eamonn on October 17, 2020, 05:41:21 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 17, 2020, 06:14:48 PM
Post by: LeeB on October 17, 2020, 07:53:41 PM
Generations of footballers may come and go but their reassuringly ropey taste in music (Luther, Boyz II Men, Phil Collins et. al) shall always remain.
Luther does not belong in that list, a man of awesome talent.
Post by: Risso on October 17, 2020, 08:33:42 PM
Generations of footballers may come and go but their reassuringly ropey taste in music (Luther, Boyz II Men, Phil Collins et. al) shall always remain.
Luther does not belong in that list, a man of awesome talent.
Aren't Boyz II Men Motown's best selling act ever?
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 17, 2020, 08:35:05 PM
Despite Benrhama failing his medical, West Ham still signed him on loan for £5m and are obliged to make the deal permanent for £20m, plus £5m possible in add-ons. £30m in total
Villa signed Ollie Watkins for £28m, rising to £33m with possible add-ons.
Wonder who's got the better deal?
Impossible to say before he's played a single minute for West Ham.
He’ll be great. In fact both of them will be. Loved to have had them both.
Post by: eamonn on October 17, 2020, 11:19:58 PM
Generations of footballers may come and go but their reassuringly ropey taste in music (Luther, Boyz II Men, Phil Collins et. al) shall always remain.
Luther does not belong in that list, a man of awesome talent.
You're right. Love that old footage of Bowie trying out his plastic soul Young Americans era material with Vandross as a backing singer. Think he might have got a writing credit on that album too actually.
Post by: CT on October 19, 2020, 08:04:36 PM
Was still getting in good positions despite it being a fairly quiet night overall.
Post by: Steve67 on October 19, 2020, 08:33:34 PM
Post by: Drummond on October 23, 2020, 09:59:51 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54631445
Post by: olaftab on October 23, 2020, 10:27:58 AM
Post by: West Derby Villan on October 23, 2020, 11:21:14 AM
Post by: darren woolley on October 23, 2020, 06:07:39 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 01, 2020, 05:06:44 PM
Post by: brontebilly on November 01, 2020, 05:07:51 PM
This was discussed in the match thread, but I think Ollie, like Wesley before him, is ending up being too isolated. The team needs to be better at providing support. He’s got plenty of ability, but he needs the team to produce more.
It's another symptom of this awful two number eights formation. They aren't providing cover for Luiz not support for Watkins.
Post by: Risso on November 01, 2020, 05:08:26 PM
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on November 01, 2020, 05:33:24 PM
Post by: Mister E on November 01, 2020, 05:38:28 PM
Perhaps they should try Davis and Watkins together, with JG dropping inside and Barkley taking a turn on the bench.
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 01, 2020, 05:45:09 PM
I wanted Wilson and his start at Newcastle dosen't surprise me. Karlan Grant is another I'd have looked at. He took his goal for WBA well the other day.
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 01, 2020, 05:56:15 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on November 03, 2020, 09:14:30 AM
Martinez has shipped 7 goals since I bought him. Sorry about that, no transfers left.
Post by: Risso on November 03, 2020, 09:54:40 AM
We've done this to Wesley, Samatta and now Watkins. We have stop stupidly fucking belting it long from the back. That does my head in. And we have to play far more compactly. But it starts with launching it long which means the team can never start with a structured shape.
Yep, pisses me off too. As soon as we have any sort of set back like going a goal behind, rather than sticking to our game plan, the likes of Mings gets a glazed look in his eyes, and starts hoofing it 50 yards to nobody in particular, rather than utilising the skills of McGinn, Luiz and Barkley etc.
Post by: aldridgeboy on November 08, 2020, 09:09:06 PM
And 6 in 7 😀
Post by: nigel on November 08, 2020, 09:10:41 PM
Post by: curiousorange on November 08, 2020, 09:13:15 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on November 08, 2020, 09:15:59 PM
Panic over. I was messing about with my fantasy team yesterday and accidentaly sold him (I'd been playing with some options and didn't realise I hadn't put him back when I made my transfers) so he's a cert for a hot scoring streak. You can thank me later.You’re welcome.
Post by: LukeJames on November 08, 2020, 09:16:37 PM
Post by: Damo70 on November 08, 2020, 09:28:31 PM
Post by: Ian. on November 08, 2020, 09:30:01 PM
Well done Ollie, took the goals superbly.
Post by: The Edge on November 08, 2020, 09:33:47 PM
Post by: darren woolley on November 08, 2020, 09:34:33 PM
Post by: rougegorge on November 08, 2020, 09:35:36 PM
I’m glad Risso isn’t in charge, he was ready to haul him off right before his brace! ;)He may go quiet for spells but he's new to this level, and he's got an eye for a goal and getting in good positions. I just hope he doesn't get injured as we don't have anyone comparable to bring on anyway.
Well done Ollie, took the goals superbly.
Post by: darren woolley on November 08, 2020, 09:37:21 PM
Post by: The Charmer on November 08, 2020, 09:41:45 PM
With a full season in the Premier League under his belt to build-up his experience and nous, we will have the striker we have longed for.
Love and cherish this boy.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on November 08, 2020, 09:42:24 PM
Post by: Deano's Mullet on November 08, 2020, 09:42:43 PM
Post by: darren woolley on November 08, 2020, 09:43:40 PM
I appreciate that we all see things differently, but I'm amazed that only 7 games in and some people question his ability / performance / contribution.
With a full season in the Premier League under his belt to build-up his experience and nous, we will have the striker we have longed for.
Love and cherish this boy.
I totally agree with you.
Post by: darren woolley on November 08, 2020, 09:45:03 PM
Eight goals already, six in the league.
Exactly he's been brilliant for us.
Post by: Risso on November 08, 2020, 09:50:18 PM
I’m glad Risso isn’t in charge, he was ready to haul him off right before his brace! ;)He may go quiet for spells but he's new to this level, and he's got an eye for a goal and getting in good positions. I just hope he doesn't get injured as we don't have anyone comparable to bring on anyway.
Well done Ollie, took the goals superbly.
Fair enough, but I maintain he was miles off first half. A stat flashed up that he'd only touched the ball 8 times, and he must have given it away cheaply for 4 or 5 of those.
Brilliant after that, obvs!
Post by: OCD on November 08, 2020, 09:50:19 PM
Post by: brontebilly on November 08, 2020, 09:50:21 PM
I’m glad Risso isn’t in charge, he was ready to haul him off right before his brace! ;)
Well done Ollie, took the goals superbly.
To be fair to Risso...I thought Watkins touch was a bit ropey at times until the scoring burst late on. But physically he is well able for it, that Gabriel is a mountain of a man but Watkins gave him nothing easy. Two proper forward goals too. Such an uplift in quality from Wesley/Samatta/Davis and much more to come
Post by: Ian. on November 08, 2020, 09:59:00 PM
I think it was your timing Risso, it was right on queue for his first!I’m glad Risso isn’t in charge, he was ready to haul him off right before his brace! ;)He may go quiet for spells but he's new to this level, and he's got an eye for a goal and getting in good positions. I just hope he doesn't get injured as we don't have anyone comparable to bring on anyway.
Well done Ollie, took the goals superbly.
Fair enough, but I maintain he was miles off first half. A stat flashed up that he'd only touched the ball 8 times, and he must have given it away cheaply for 4 or 5 of those.
Brilliant after that, obvs!
His hold up play was very good I thought, but you were right in saying he was loose with his passing a few times.
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 08, 2020, 09:59:52 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 08, 2020, 10:01:29 PM
Post by: dave shelley on November 08, 2020, 10:36:11 PM
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 08, 2020, 11:02:29 PM
As I posted in the post match thread, Ollie Watkins is some player for us.
Fixed.
Post by: Hillbilly on November 08, 2020, 11:07:53 PM
Post by: curiousorange on November 08, 2020, 11:18:08 PM
Post by: usav on November 08, 2020, 11:55:51 PM
Post by: VillaSpen on November 09, 2020, 04:32:14 AM
Post by: rooboy316 on November 09, 2020, 05:14:11 AM
Post by: Axl Rose on November 09, 2020, 05:51:26 AM
Post by: algy on November 09, 2020, 08:13:57 AM
Post by: West Derby Villan on November 09, 2020, 09:12:20 AM
The first thing I saw as my Scorchio posted was Risso's comment posted 20 seconds earlier. It happens and is funny, and has happened to all of us.
Yeah keep up the good work mate
Post by: The Edge on November 09, 2020, 09:29:40 AM
Love both goals. The first is all about striker’s instinct, after brilliance from Douglas and Barkley. The second is great movement and a great finish.His second goal had me jumping in the air! Lightning quick throw out from Martinez a run from Jack that was him at his best,he glides across the pitch with the ball under tight control, and just before he laid it off an Arsenal player literally bounced off him. Then Ollie just hammered it home. The Arsenal players just looked at each other with a distinct air of "what the fuck just happened"
Marvellous, wonderful, joyous moment in my (long) history of watching the Villa.
Post by: dave shelley on November 09, 2020, 10:33:30 AM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on November 09, 2020, 10:44:23 AM
Post by: dave shelley on November 09, 2020, 10:53:50 AM
Post by: Drummond on November 09, 2020, 10:56:56 AM
This lad does the training and work and just has the instinct. And he's only 24.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on November 09, 2020, 11:01:03 AM
How's the leg Brend'?
Still in pain but improving day on day. The drugs do work thankfully. Funnily enough for 90 minutes yesterday evening I forgot all about it. Thanks to the Villa.
Post by: Risso on November 09, 2020, 11:56:00 AM
Love both goals. The first is all about striker’s instinct, after brilliance from Douglas and Barkley. The second is great movement and a great finish.His second goal had me jumping in the air! Lightning quick throw out from Martinez a run from Jack that was him at his best,he glides across the pitch with the ball under tight control, and just before he laid it off an Arsenal player literally bounced off him. Then Ollie just hammered it home. The Arsenal players just looked at each other with a distinct air of "what the fuck just happened"
Marvellous, wonderful, joyous moment in my (long) history of watching the Villa.
I think that's one of the best goals we've ever scored. Brilliant reading of the game from Martinez, before some of the best play from Grealish that encapsulated everything that is good about him. Superb finish from Ollie, I can't stop watching it this morning.
Post by: LukeJames on November 09, 2020, 12:48:30 PM
Post by: stevo_st on November 09, 2020, 12:54:19 PM
Post by: paul_e on November 09, 2020, 01:14:45 PM
The 3rd goal was pure porn but his header was the one I liked, he's scored 5 goals from those type of positions already (3 almost identical headers). You just know he's going to be in and around there, I cant remember the last striker we had that was like this.
What's helped is that he likes flatter crosses, which means we don't need to be picking him out, just hitting the right line between the keeper and defenders. Even the first goal showed that it's something we've clearly worked on. It's much harder to defend than 'normal' crosses trying to pick out a man.
Post by: Risso on November 09, 2020, 02:02:22 PM
Post by: WarszaVillan on November 09, 2020, 02:09:30 PM
The 3rd goal was pure porn but his header was the one I liked, he's scored 5 goals from those type of positions already (3 almost identical headers). You just know he's going to be in and around there, I cant remember the last striker we had that was like this.
He's like a Darren Bent who can play football
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 10, 2020, 01:08:17 PM
We've gone from somebody quite slow and who can't head the ball at all in Wesley, to somebody really quick who is also great in the air in Watkins. It's an absolutely huge upgrade in all areas of the game.
We have. What we don’t know is how Wes would have developed like others we bought potentially how much better he’d be this season had he not been injured. That said you can’t teach pace. Wes had decent movement but he couldn’t head a ball which is bizarre for a big centre forward. Maybe that would have improved also. But our ability now to hit teams on the counter is the best since MON when had Gabby, Ash, Carew being fed by the likes of Milner, Stan and Barry.
Post by: eamonn on December 17, 2020, 08:51:46 AM
Post by: Risso on December 17, 2020, 08:57:19 AM
*eastie mode on* Nice and handy for his Northants home as well.
Post by: eamonn on December 17, 2020, 11:34:40 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 18, 2020, 12:16:37 AM
Didnt Dyche turn us down when we were binning one of our previous terrible managers? Here's what you cudda had, Dychey...
Dean Smith. To think we were so close to bringing Dyche to Villa Park in the spring. I don't think Dyche is as bad as his current team but missing out on the Villa move obviously has had an impact. Horrible stuff.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 18, 2020, 12:30:03 AM
We've gone from somebody quite slow and who can't head the ball at all in Wesley, to somebody really quick who is also great in the air in Watkins. It's an absolutely huge upgrade in all areas of the game.
We always knew Wesley couldn't head a ball. For me, Ollie is like Tammy, put the ball in the 6 yard box and 9 times out of 10 he'll be on the end of it. Wonderful trait but we need to understand and play to his limitations.
Post by: Hillbilly on December 18, 2020, 02:59:40 AM
Post by: tony scott on December 18, 2020, 04:06:39 AM
Post by: sid1964 on December 18, 2020, 07:04:30 AM
For £33 million (that is the most expensive buy in Villa's history) I expected far more, especially when he has probably one of the most creative players in the country playing just behind him in Grealish
The Burnley centre halves last night would have barely broken sweat marking him - he needs to improve his game in lots of areas - hopefully on Sunday he will score and that will boost his confidence.
Post by: Ian. on December 18, 2020, 07:18:16 AM
I don’t think anyone had a bad game last night, it’s just a few were guilty of lacking composure. That’s probably just as much down to lack of game time and also ability.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 18, 2020, 07:42:14 AM
I thought his performance last night was awful - i cant remember him having a decent game since Arsenal away (and that was only the 2nd half) if the only way he can play is within the penalty area - then he is not a centre forward
For £33 million (that is the most expensive buy in Villa's history) I expected far more, especially when he has probably one of the most creative players in the country playing just behind him in Grealish
The Burnley centre halves last night would have barely broken sweat marking him - he needs to improve his game in lots of areas - hopefully on Sunday he will score and that will boost his confidence.
Very harsh. I thought he worked pretty hard and well last night. He does have stuff to work on, for sure. But I think overall he’s had an excellent start to his Villa career.
Post by: Dave P on December 18, 2020, 08:00:01 AM
I thought his performance last night was awful - i cant remember him having a decent game since Arsenal away (and that was only the 2nd half) if the only way he can play is within the penalty area - then he is not a centre forward
For £33 million (that is the most expensive buy in Villa's history) I expected far more, especially when he has probably one of the most creative players in the country playing just behind him in Grealish
The Burnley centre halves last night would have barely broken sweat marking him - he needs to improve his game in lots of areas - hopefully on Sunday he will score and that will boost his confidence.
Very harsh. I thought he worked pretty hard and well last night. He does have stuff to work on, for sure. But I think overall he’s had an excellent start to his Villa career.
I think that is harsh too. Everything seemed to stick with him and he held off two bruising defenders. I think he's magic.
Post by: Rigadon on December 18, 2020, 08:00:19 AM
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 18, 2020, 08:08:07 AM
His performances have been very hot and cold, I'll give you that. He looked a world beater against Liverpool and Arsenal, but has struggled against supposed lesser opponents - Which I find strange seeing as he should be used to that after years in the lower leagues.
I think he'll come good - But we desperately need another striker to relieve the pressure on his shoulders. *And thinking back to the general consensus on here, I don't think Wesley is the answer!
Post by: Dave P on December 18, 2020, 08:16:27 AM
I'm gonna be recklessly optimistic and say that Watkins and Wesley will form one of those fortuitous partnerships where everything clicks. And because this is the Villa, Watkins will then get a long term injury.
The last bit is typical Villa but I think you are right. Wesley might thrive with this creativity around him.
Post by: Ads on December 18, 2020, 08:53:57 AM
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on December 18, 2020, 08:56:39 AM
Post by: Clampy on December 18, 2020, 08:59:06 AM
I thought his performance last night was awful - i cant remember him having a decent game since Arsenal away (and that was only the 2nd half) if the only way he can play is within the penalty area - then he is not a centre forward
For £33 million (that is the most expensive buy in Villa's history) I expected far more, especially when he has probably one of the most creative players in the country playing just behind him in Grealish
The Burnley centre halves last night would have barely broken sweat marking him - he needs to improve his game in lots of areas - hopefully on Sunday he will score and that will boost his confidence.
6 goals in 11 games in his first season in the top division and you expected far more? There's just no pleasing some people.
Post by: mcgrath_85 on December 18, 2020, 09:06:21 AM
Post by: Drummond on December 18, 2020, 09:20:20 AM
We had 27 shots last night, so even if he isn't the one in the end he's causing problems that give others opportunities. His running is great and he's scored a better ratio than anyone we've had for years. Early days but in a couple of years I reckon there will be calls saying he should be playing for England.
Post by: eamonn on December 18, 2020, 09:22:08 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 18, 2020, 09:25:45 AM
Think we need to be a bit more patient, not his fault we did not score from 27 attempts.
Post by: fbriai on December 18, 2020, 09:30:02 AM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 18, 2020, 09:31:05 AM
Post by: mcgrath_85 on December 18, 2020, 09:35:47 AM
It’s very difficult to judge if he is making the right runs from TV. His hold up play was good, he kept wanting the ball, he has good first touch. A huge upgrade on Wes.
Think we need to be a bit more patient, not his fault we did not score from 27 attempts.
I agree with you and wasn’t claiming he was at fault. I was being constructive in my criticism hoping he can improve further, which he definitely can.
Post by: fbriai on December 18, 2020, 09:39:00 AM
Also, we won't be playing Burnley every week, where it's constantly like the chariot scene from Ben Hur in their box.
Ha ha! Great description, BE.
There was a moment in the first half, they had a corner I think, which ended with a free-kick and four players on the floor, and I said to my lad, 'there's a scene you only get in a Burnley game'.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 18, 2020, 09:39:47 AM
I think he's a cracking player. Runs all day long, wants the ball everywhere, can win it in the air, keep it with his back to goal, can hold it up on the ground and bring others into player, is very quick, can get round the back of the last man, can pass, can shoot - with both feet - can head, gets into superb positions. He must be a right handful for any defence. He's been superb for us so far and will only get better. Keep it up, Ollie.
And never, ever stops pressing the keeper, which looks like the shittest task in football to me. But then I was a midfield stroller.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 18, 2020, 09:45:28 AM
Post by: brontebilly on December 18, 2020, 09:49:09 AM
It’s very difficult to judge if he is making the right runs from TV. His hold up play was good, he kept wanting the ball, he has good first touch. A huge upgrade on Wes.
Think we need to be a bit more patient, not his fault we did not score from 27 attempts.
While I would agree he is an huge upgrade on any striker we had last season, that's a very low benchmark in any case. We should be expecting a lot more than that. I think he has been poor in the last three games but particularly last night. I thought he held onto the ball far too long out wide and was dispossessed on a number of occasions. Thought his touch was poor and the ball seemed to be getting stuck under his feet a lot. Maybe he got frustrated with lack of service, or with Burnley so deep there was little space in behind, but by coming so deep or drifting wide that was just what they wanted.
He does seem to prefer quicker crosses from wide areas and the likes of Grealish, McGinn, Traore or AEG are always going to take an extra touch. He needs to adapt his game a bit as a result and be a bit more patient Vardy style.
Post by: simboy on December 18, 2020, 09:59:19 AM
Post by: OCD on December 18, 2020, 11:32:44 AM
Post by: West Derby Villan on December 18, 2020, 11:44:55 AM
I think he's a cracking player. Runs all day long, wants the ball everywhere, can win it in the air, keep it with his back to goal, can hold it up on the ground and bring others into player, is very quick, can get round the back of the last man, can pass, can shoot - with both feet - can head, gets into superb positions. He must be a right handful for any defence. He's been superb for us so far and will only get better. Keep it up, Ollie.
Agree, great potential, it’s his first season in the PL in very odd circumstances. He’s constantly on the move and scored some great goals already and will continue to. I think a bit more patience is needed on here sometimes. Well played Ollie keep up the good work.
Post by: DrGonzo on December 18, 2020, 04:46:51 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 18, 2020, 05:04:25 PM
Post by: RamboandBruno on December 19, 2020, 09:59:41 AM
It’s very difficult to judge if he is making the right runs from TV. His hold up play was good, he kept wanting the ball, he has good first touch. A huge upgrade on Wes.
Think we need to be a bit more patient, not his fault we did not score from 27 attempts.
I think this is right.
It seems to me that he also does a lot of the hard graft that isn’t also immediately noticeable unless your looking out for it. He never stops moving, and I think an earlier comment on here that Burnley’s defenders had an easy night with him, is very wide of the mark. I think every defence he’s come against know they’ve been in a game. He does exactly what Wes, Davis or Samatta didn’t do last season, run the line, move between the defenders, making them have to think all the time.
One comment I do agree with, is if Grealish doesn’t play him in when he should, like on Thursday or against Leeds, he should be screaming at him, so even Jack knows for next time.
Post by: Dante Lavelli on December 19, 2020, 10:10:50 AM
Yeah, I think there might be an element of being in deference to some of his teammates. Needs to be less shy and more demanding from them.
I agree. It might come in time but I suspect he might just be that type of character. the fact he didn’t take penalties at Brentford suggests he doesn’t seek to stand out and be the boss. Hopefully that sort of arrogance will come as he finds his feet in this league.
Post by: Clampy on December 19, 2020, 10:16:12 AM
Give him time, we've may have found a gem.
Post by: Zouch Villa on December 19, 2020, 10:56:49 AM
As always, we will only see the best of him if we continue to add more quality to the squad.
Post by: Ads on December 19, 2020, 01:07:23 PM
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on December 19, 2020, 01:19:42 PM
I think Ollie’s all round game is very good, and love the way he can intercept and quickly control the ball. If El Ghazi hadn’t chosen to shoot on sight every time he was played in vs Burnley, and instead picked out Watkins (who was in good positions), I’m confident he would have converted at least one chance.
As always, we will only see the best of him if we continue to add more quality to the squad.
Don't just single out El Ghazi. Grealish should have picked him out with a pass also.
Post by: DrGonzo on December 19, 2020, 02:48:00 PM
Mane has now scored as many goals as Watkins.
And is considered one of the best in the league.
Post by: Risso on December 19, 2020, 03:35:07 PM
Post by: SamTheMouse on December 19, 2020, 03:43:56 PM
Post by: London Villan on December 20, 2020, 09:32:27 PM
Post by: Ian. on December 20, 2020, 09:34:32 PM
Post by: SheffieldVillain on December 20, 2020, 09:40:03 PM
When he does interviews, he comes across as a bright lad. That shows in the way he plays. His movement is very intelligent.
For Traore's goal today, he made a little run and took the defender with him which made the space for Traore to run into. Very clever movement.
Post by: Keeno on December 20, 2020, 09:51:09 PM
He might not have had the luck with the goals over the last few weeks, but him being in the side is one of the main reasons behind our massive improvement this season.
Post by: jcsutv on December 20, 2020, 10:02:39 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 20, 2020, 10:21:08 PM
https://twitter.com/flowz23/status/1340777242323021832?s=21
Post by: tomd2103 on December 20, 2020, 10:47:26 PM
He's a brilliant player. We've not had a striker so intelligent in his movement for years - the decoy run made that goal for Traore as it sent the centre back and Johnstone's eyes the wrong way, and summed up his selflessness and intelligence perfectly.
He might not have had the luck with the goals over the last few weeks, but him being in the side is one of the main reasons behind our massive improvement this season.
Yeah, I've got a lot of time for him as well. I like the fact that even if things aren't going his way, he still works hard and makes it difficult for defenders. That said, he has had a lot on his shoulders this season with it being his first season in the top flight and with a big price tag to boot. I said after the Burnley game and I think again tonight, that although he is doing fine, he looks like he could just do with a bit of a rest and then come back fresh and firing.
Post by: jcsutv on December 20, 2020, 10:54:28 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 21, 2020, 09:39:37 AM
That's 2 now and a miss pen which would have seen him with 9 in 12 and if he was on pens then another 2 given to AEG would be 11 in 12.
I dont think he should have been taken off pens.
Callum Wilson our target in summer takes pens and has a good number to his name. Because of his experience he's shown at this time to be the more effective striker this season. 8 in 12 goals to ollies 6.
And if we create the right chances for Ollie he will score goals. More play to the byline and low crosses are needed.
I did notice he likes to go pitchside left but somewhat crowded over there with AEG and Jackie liking that area when attacking.
I still see him on for 15+ goals and would like team to play to his strengths as he works hard for team and makes good runs and can link up well
These high balls where he's had to battle defenders are tough for him
Like a lot about him and so do the team mates who all celebrated affectionately when he scored 'goal' WBA
I'm expecting he'll do well for goals vs Man Utd and Cheslea away when Villa get space in behind on counters and quick transition of the ball
A haul is coming
Post by: Brend'Watkins on December 21, 2020, 10:23:37 AM
Post by: brontebilly on December 21, 2020, 10:33:23 AM
Improved in the second half for sure, good decoy run for Traores goal. Good shot at one stage. Offside by milimeters for what would have been a much needed goal. Got more involved in the play too. Really needs to work on his first touch though, ball is getting stuck under his feet too much. Seems quite a strong guy so just needs to work his body more to protect the ball better.
Post by: West Derby Villan on December 21, 2020, 02:14:33 PM
Had a shocker of a first half yesterday . Ball bouncing off him against average defenders. Terrible touch when sent through by Grealish twice. That missed header was poor too.
Improved in the second half for sure, good decoy run for Traores goal. Good shot at one stage. Offside by milimeters for what would have been a much needed goal. Got more involved in the play too. Really needs to work on his first touch though, ball is getting stuck under his feet too much. Seems quite a strong guy so just needs to work his body more to protect the ball better.
Didn’t he cushion the header, while being marked by 2 defenders, to Bertie for our first goal?
Post by: Ian. on December 21, 2020, 02:33:42 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on December 21, 2020, 02:35:09 PM
Ollie must be very frustrated. VAR, penalty misses and now two penalties taken and scored by AEG. He should have five more goals.
If you have seen Ollie's Penalty conversions stats, I'm glad AEG is taking them.
Post by: Drummond on December 21, 2020, 02:56:54 PM
Post by: usav on December 21, 2020, 03:05:08 PM
He's doing just fine.
He is, but his confidence has to have taken a hit. Needs a goal in the next game, yesterday would have been an ideal stage to get back on the scoresheet.
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 21, 2020, 03:10:54 PM
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on December 21, 2020, 03:16:59 PM
Pleased with Watkins thus far. Works hard, and has scored a reasonable haul considering the step up from the Championship. I would rather he had more competition though, and think that it would help him by taking some of the pressure off.
Post by: Risso on December 21, 2020, 04:03:29 PM
He's doing just fine.
He is, but his confidence has to have taken a hit. Needs a goal in the next game, yesterday would have been an ideal stage to get back on the scoresheet.
If it wasn't for the farce that is VAR, he'd have two more goals already. As it is, 6 goals from 12 goals is a good return. 8 from 12 would have been truly amazing.
Post by: darren woolley on December 21, 2020, 04:39:08 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 26, 2020, 04:49:12 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 26, 2020, 04:51:14 PM
Post by: Ads on December 26, 2020, 04:57:16 PM
Post by: LukeJames on December 26, 2020, 05:00:09 PM
I hope on a personal level he's not dissapointed not to score because that was the ultimate playing for the team performance.
Post by: boutrosboutrosgnarly on December 26, 2020, 05:02:29 PM
Post by: Legion on December 26, 2020, 05:02:31 PM
Post by: DrGonzo on December 26, 2020, 05:05:28 PM
Post by: supertom on December 26, 2020, 05:07:30 PM
Post by: Rudy65 on December 26, 2020, 05:09:07 PM
Post by: Steve67 on December 26, 2020, 05:10:57 PM
Post by: darren woolley on December 26, 2020, 05:12:22 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 26, 2020, 05:13:18 PM
Post by: Mister E on December 26, 2020, 05:29:07 PM
Have we ever had such a hard working striker? I can't think of one.Andy Gray was a real grafter.
Post by: Risso on December 26, 2020, 05:31:04 PM
Post by: Risso on December 26, 2020, 05:31:45 PM
Have we ever had such a hard working striker? I can't think of one.
Dean Saunders perhaps?
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 26, 2020, 05:49:00 PM
Post by: Ger Regan on December 26, 2020, 05:51:38 PM
Post by: Ian. on December 26, 2020, 05:59:18 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 26, 2020, 06:09:23 PM
He's crucial to how we play. Is just trying a bit too hard when chances present themselves, once it clicks for him, he'll be unplayable.
He does at times but I never hope he loses that attitude and appetite. Today though he was just flat out unlucky. Off the bar, we score. Off the post, the keeper's makes good saves to deny him. Those Palace CB's were given a torrid time. And that's before you get to the goals that in another era are given and he's into double figures for the season.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 26, 2020, 06:18:01 PM
Post by: dave shelley on December 26, 2020, 06:20:10 PM
Post by: CT on December 26, 2020, 06:21:39 PM
Post by: not3bad on December 26, 2020, 06:44:30 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 26, 2020, 06:50:58 PM
Have we ever had such a hard working striker? I can't think of one.Andy Gray was a real grafter.
He was but not like Ollie.
Post by: Martin Carruthers on December 26, 2020, 06:52:12 PM
Post by: four fornicholl on December 26, 2020, 07:08:26 PM
Nowhere near as good looking though. He's our "baby faced assassin", sorry.Have we ever had such a hard working striker? I can't think of one.Andy Gray was a real grafter.
Post by: brontebilly on December 26, 2020, 07:12:15 PM
Post by: West Derby Villan on December 26, 2020, 07:48:37 PM
Have we ever had such a hard working striker? I can't think of one.Andy Gray was a real grafter.
Big boots to fill but I think Ollie has the potential to better Andy’s tally
Post by: rob_bridge on December 26, 2020, 08:56:53 PM
Post by: mike on December 26, 2020, 09:49:49 PM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on December 26, 2020, 10:08:16 PM
He's fucking ace. Of all the Championship next best things (Benrhama, Maupay etc) he is the real deal. Pre VAR he would have had a couple more goals which would have made it more obvious but the lad is outstanding.
If he’d scored the pen at West Ham he’d probably have been on the two since.
Post by: mike on December 26, 2020, 10:20:03 PM
He's fucking ace. Of all the Championship next best things (Benrhama, Maupay etc) he is the real deal. Pre VAR he would have had a couple more goals which would have made it more obvious but the lad is outstanding.
If he’d scored the pen at West Ham he’d probably have been on the two since.
Yep, so then and add the three he nearly scored today and how many would he be on... but actually, El Ghazi scoring those pens is probably a bonus for the team in the long run for the confidence it gives him (and us) so, hey ho, it all works out in the end. But Ollie deserves to have a higher goal tally.
Post by: Rudy65 on December 27, 2020, 11:16:45 AM
I really, really like him. I look forward to his future with us.
Said the same to my wife after his post match interview yesterday. In fact I said he would be great son in law material........and I have a lovely 22 year old daughter who is free!
Post by: Risso on December 27, 2020, 11:29:29 AM
Yep, so then and add the three he nearly scored today and how many would he be on... but actually, El Ghazi scoring those pens is probably a bonus for the team in the long run for the confidence it gives him (and us) so, hey ho, it all works out in the end. But Ollie deserves to have a higher goal tally.
He really does Mike. It's not like he's doing a Davis and not even having attempts, or skying the chances he does get into row Z.
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 27, 2020, 11:31:48 AM
Post by: olaftab on December 27, 2020, 11:40:05 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 27, 2020, 12:00:30 PM
Post by: West Derby Villan on December 27, 2020, 12:50:11 PM
Post by: supertom on December 27, 2020, 01:02:19 PM
Post by: Drummond on December 27, 2020, 01:20:46 PM
Post by: OCD on December 27, 2020, 01:54:35 PM
Post by: VILLA MOLE on December 27, 2020, 02:16:21 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 27, 2020, 02:45:12 PM
I feel like Watkins might be the best all rounder we've had since Yorke up front, in terms of all his attributes. There's not a lot he can't do. He doesn't look big but he's good with his back to goal, he works the channels well, he's quick, decent in the air, a good one touch passer, intelligent player. He scores goals (no seriously, he does). We've had some good CF's, but generally not as much of a team player as Ollie. Likewise, his role model being Henry looks clear in the fact he can bring others into play so well and make goals as well as score them. If he stays here 5 years he'll be comfortably over 50 goals for us and probably a hatful of assists on top.
Benteke in 12/13 was imo the best individual striker season we've had at top level since the 90s. People think now all Benteke did was stand in 6 yard box and head in crosses but he was huge with our counter attack with his hold out play and drifting out wide and pulling defenders out of position. Remember the Man. United goal when Weimann scored and he made a complete mug out of Smalling who was a good defender at the time.
Considering how much stronger we now are across the pitch compared to those dark times we're going to have an incredible season if Ollie can score 15 + goals considering what else he contributes to our play.
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 27, 2020, 02:50:38 PM
Post by: Smithy on December 27, 2020, 08:40:53 PM
Benteke was magnificent at his best. It’s easy to forget how good he was watching what has become of him. I love Ollie for many reasons, but he’s still got a ways yo go to become what Benteke was for us. I’ll say to everyone just watch the sheer variety of goals he scored. He could literally do it all.
It wasn't just his goals, remember the back-heel for Weiman's goal at Anfield? At his best, he was absolutely brilliant for us.
Ollie has been brilliant so far, but he's not even had half a season yet. If he carries on like this then he'll be right up there. The thing I like about him is that he still looks like scoring, even if he's missing chances. There are strikers who go through a dry spell and become anonymous - he could literally have had a hat-trick yesterday, and also got three assists. If this is him in a dry-spell, the rest of the league better watch out when he hits a purple patch...
Post by: VILLA MOLE on December 27, 2020, 08:50:27 PM
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 27, 2020, 08:54:56 PM
Post by: VILLA MOLE on December 27, 2020, 08:58:58 PM
Let's not re-write history. For three seasons Benteke was up there with the best we've ever had.
Yep unplayable at times
Post by: Ad@m on December 27, 2020, 10:30:32 PM
Like others have said, Benteke was one of the best players we've ever had in claret & blue at his peak. He could do everything and anything.
Going to Liverpool ruined his career.
Post by: Drummond on December 28, 2020, 09:24:43 AM
He's not blazing them over, getting scared or lacking confidence, which is great. It will happen soon. Next two games please Ollie.
Post by: TelfordVilla on December 28, 2020, 09:48:01 AM
Post by: onje_villa on December 28, 2020, 09:49:58 AM
Post by: Ad@m on December 28, 2020, 10:45:09 AM
Post by: eamonn on December 28, 2020, 11:33:20 AM
Post by: rooboy316 on December 28, 2020, 01:39:14 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 28, 2020, 02:08:37 PM
I also wonder how we will keep it up as the season goes along. The work rate, the pressing, from the whole team, is phenomenal to watch. But Deano also seems not to want to fix what ain’t broken by using subs, and the lack of squad rotation so far - surely must take it’s toll at some point?
The only time I've thought we looked a bit leggy was the Brighton game after the last international break, as though being away from their regular routine had taken its toll. If anything, we've looked like we're getting fitter and our stamina levels have been increasing ever since then. They're fit young lads, they'll cope.
Post by: Risso on December 28, 2020, 02:13:24 PM
I also wonder how we will keep it up as the season goes along. The work rate, the pressing, from the whole team, is phenomenal to watch. But Deano also seems not to want to fix what ain’t broken by using subs, and the lack of squad rotation so far - surely must take it’s toll at some point?
Once we get past January it's really only one game a week for the most part. Not like we have any European or League Cup games to worry about.
Post by: Villa Lew on December 30, 2020, 02:22:33 PM
Post by: Clive W on December 31, 2020, 05:52:36 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/12/31/ollie-watkins-aston-villas-running-man-offers-just-goals/
Post by: OCD on December 31, 2020, 06:01:01 PM
Post by: Clive W on December 31, 2020, 06:05:01 PM
It's behind a pay wall. Can you copy and paste it?I’ll try but not very good at this sort of thing
Post by: Clive W on December 31, 2020, 06:07:32 PM
Watkins is Dean Smith’s running man, the relentless chaser of lost causes who defends from the front and never gives Premier League centre-backs a peaceful moment.
His heat maps after games are likely to be radioactive with the amount of charging around the final third he produces, eating up the kilometres as the central figure in an attacking front three.
Since that record move from Brentford, where he scored 26 goals last season, Watkins has set the tone for one of this season’s surprise packages.
“Ollie has a hunger to score goals, which is what I love about him. He also has a hunger to improve and keep getting better and what you see on a match-day is what you see on the training ground,” said Smith, the Villa head coach.
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“He has an infectious attitude that rubs off on others. I think it’s the all-round athleticism as well. Some of the numbers he produces with his running stats are incredible.”
Watkins may have experienced frustration in recent weeks, most notably in the 3-0 win over Crystal Palace on Boxing Day, but does have eight goals already this season.
Watkins introduced himself to the Premier League with a first-half hat-trick against Liverpool in October
Watkins introduced himself to the Premier League with a first-half hat-trick against Liverpool in October CREDIT: RICHARD PELHAM
Three of them came in that remarkable 7-2 demolition of champions Liverpool, while he will also remember with fondness the two goals against Arsenal, the team he supported as a kid.
Watkins still has the time to challenge European Cup-winner Peter Withe as the last Villa forward to score 20 in a top-flight campaign.
But the 25 year old has clearly shown he has more to offer than just goals. He regularly studies video clips of opposing defenders to work out potential weaknesses or areas of their game he can capitalise on.
Before the win over Liverpool he watched videos of Virgil van Dijk and Joe Gomez, with assistant coach Richard O'Kelly, and that dedication is being rewarded. Pace remains one of the biggest fears for defenders.
Against Palace, Watkins also provided assists for all the three goals and has established a fine understanding with captain Jack Grealish.
With Palace’s defenders tiring towards the end, and Watkins in pursuit of a goal, he produced a clever run behind the centre-halves and was found by Grealish: only to strike the post.
Smith points to those moments, when Watkins is still getting himself into the danger areas, as evidence that the goals will return soon.
Manchester United will be the latest team to experience the lung-bursting approach of Watkins on Friday night, yet these energetic performances are nothing new.
At Brentford, Watkins’ running statistics were also through the roof and defender Pontus Jansson delivered an excellent assessment after the play-off semi-final against Swansea.
"It was one of the best defensive performances from a striker I have ever seen. I know how much he ran, it was just unbelievable,” he said.
“To see his numbers on the GPS afterwards, there was almost fire on it. When Ollie has a good game defensively we always defend well as a team as well."
Last season’s Championship Player of the Year, Watkins has made the step up appear easy. Many other clubs were interested over the summer, including Tottenham, Palace, Sheffield United and West Brom, but the transfer fee demanded by Brentford - which will eventually rise to £33 million - scared them off.
It was also perhaps inevitable that Watkins would join Villa, after signing for Brentford when Smith was in charge. Smith tells an amusing story about how he once bought Watkins a fish-tank as a “moving in present”, and they have always had a close relationship.
During this period without a goal, Smith has moved quickly after matches to offer his support and underline his importance to the team.
Villa, and Watkins, face United on New Year’s Day fifth in the table and on a tidal wave of momentum after an unbeaten December, with Smith’s squad winning admirers with their attack-minded approach.
This season they have won at Arsenal, Leicester and Wolves, while drawing at Chelsea on Monday, so a trip to Old Trafford will not represent the daunting prospect it might have done last season.
Villa drew 2-2 at United last December, with Grealish adding another spectacular goal to his collection, and Smith insists his team will approach the game full of confidence.
“We were more fearful of these fixtures last season because of the newness of actually getting into the Premier League,” he said. “This season we know where we're at.
“We can go and compete with the best in this league. We're excited about the opportunities and we'll be ready for them. These are the games they want to play in and look forward to.
“We had a good result there last season and we feel we're in a better place now.”
Related Topics
Aston Villa FC, Premier League, Exeter City FC, Brentford FC
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Post by: Goldenballs on December 31, 2020, 06:22:05 PM
He does need to take more of his chances, midfield goals will dry up eventually, although he can take a lot of credit for setting up/creating space for the midfielde goals.
Post by: mcgrath_85 on December 31, 2020, 06:26:59 PM
I thought he was a lot younger than 25, for some reason. Also read that he's only scored in 3 games, can that be right?
He does need to take more of his chances, midfield goals will dry up eventually, although he can take a lot of credit for setting up/creating space for the midfielde goals.
3 premier league games yes.
Liverpool 3
Arsenal 2
Southampton 1 (pen)
Post by: Demitri_C on January 01, 2021, 10:30:32 PM
Post by: Risso on January 01, 2021, 10:32:27 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on January 01, 2021, 10:33:38 PM
Post by: olaftab on January 01, 2021, 10:37:26 PM
I like Ollie but I’d be going all out to get Diego Costa for the rest of this season so Ollie can be taken out of the firing line and Wes get up to speed. loan not splashing the cash. Won’t happen but Ollie needs a breatherI hear what you are saying but I don't want that toxic ****** anywhere near our club.
Post by: colin69 on January 01, 2021, 10:38:44 PM
Post by: TheMalandro on January 01, 2021, 10:41:25 PM
He'll bang them in soon.
Post by: brontebilly on January 01, 2021, 10:43:36 PM
Post by: Rudy65 on January 01, 2021, 10:44:46 PM
I like Ollie but I’d be going all out to get Diego Costa for the rest of this season so Ollie can be taken out of the firing line and Wes get up to speed. loan not splashing the cash. Won’t happen but Ollie needs a breatherI hear what you are saying but I don't want that toxic ****** anywhere near our club.
Toxic?
Post by: Ian. on January 01, 2021, 10:44:51 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on January 01, 2021, 10:45:44 PM
Maybe not the best example then but someone with his experience/nous that could come straight in and teach Ollie a few tricks of the trade whilst contributing on the pitch is what I want - admittedly a big ask and probably not achievableI like Ollie but I’d be going all out to get Diego Costa for the rest of this season so Ollie can be taken out of the firing line and Wes get up to speed. loan not splashing the cash. Won’t happen but Ollie needs a breatherI hear what you are saying but I don't want that toxic ****** anywhere near our club.
Post by: OzVilla on January 01, 2021, 10:51:37 PM
Post by: Uknowthescore on January 01, 2021, 10:51:47 PM
Post by: Allan C on January 01, 2021, 10:58:50 PM
Post by: Steve67 on January 01, 2021, 11:02:26 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 01, 2021, 11:05:52 PM
Post by: Aldridge Villa on January 01, 2021, 11:15:57 PM
Post by: AV82EC on January 01, 2021, 11:29:01 PM
Post by: brontebilly on January 01, 2021, 11:50:29 PM
He wasn’t quite as effective tonight but the lack of service he got from his wide attackers was non existent. The capabilities and quality of El Ghazi and Traore is the problem here not Ollie. Martial I thought was incredibly poor but contrast the service and quality from Fernandez and Pogba.
Watkins missed three big chances and a top forward gets on that end of that brilliant Cash cross in the first half too. That's not remotely good enough and unfortunately for Watkins it has been that way for him for quite a while now.
Post by: Ads on January 02, 2021, 12:16:03 AM
Post by: myf on January 02, 2021, 12:39:47 AM
He wasn’t quite as effective tonight but the lack of service he got from his wide attackers was non existent. The capabilities and quality of El Ghazi and Traore is the problem here not Ollie. Martial I thought was incredibly poor but contrast the service and quality from Fernandez and Pogba.
Watkins missed three big chances and a top forward gets on that end of that brilliant Cash cross in the first half too. That's not remotely good enough and unfortunately for Watkins it has been that way for him for quite a while now.
I agree. he missed a few sitters against palace as well.
don't buy the lack of service point either. we put so many crosses, corners and free kicks in the box but he is rarely on the end of them and too often misses when he does get a chance. I wish he would attack the front post
Appreciate he works very hard and holds it up reasonably well but not convinced he is the striker we need to fire us into Europe.
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 02, 2021, 04:58:40 AM
Incredible work rate off the ball but does not time his runs into the danger areas.
Lacking cutting edge.
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 02, 2021, 05:19:02 AM
Does not attack the space in front of goal, often goes in and then waits, gets marked.
Incredible work rate off the ball but does not time his runs into the danger areas.
Lacking cutting edge.
Hat trick goal vs Liverpool, goals vs Burton and Bristol City in the league cup, brave headed goal at Arsenal, goals disallowed vs West Ham and West Brom suggests he does attack the box and isn’t afraid getting into those positions.
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 02, 2021, 06:49:53 AM
I said danger areas, I am pointing out that he. Is not getting across his defenders, is not attacking the near post at all and is not getting on the end of crosses. He has missed a lot of chances over the last few games.Does not attack the space in front of goal, often goes in and then waits, gets marked.
Incredible work rate off the ball but does not time his runs into the danger areas.
Lacking cutting edge.
Hat trick goal vs Liverpool, goals vs Burton and Bristol City in the league cup, brave headed goal at Arsenal, goals disallowed vs West Ham and West Brom suggests he does attack the box and isn’t afraid getting into those positions.
Post by: simboy on January 02, 2021, 08:46:28 AM
Going through a phase where he just needs to see one come off his backside into the net and he’s off scoring again.
Post by: Mister E on January 02, 2021, 08:58:43 AM
I think he would benefit from playing left of another striker. I was a great supporter of bringing Callum Wilson in over the summer. I wished we had done so, because the two of them would have scored shitloads together.
Post by: Ian. on January 02, 2021, 09:08:23 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 02, 2021, 09:18:28 AM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on January 02, 2021, 10:11:47 AM
He'll bang them in soon.
As soon as the service improves.
Mentioned last night, we're two first team players short of a top 6 team, both are wingers. Short that and we'll fly.
Post by: Risso on January 02, 2021, 10:18:12 AM
He'll bang them in soon.
As soon as the service improves.
Mentioned last night, we're two first team players short of a top 6 team, both are wingers. Short that and we'll fly.
You're right Mark. El Ghazi has improved, but while his shooting is miles better, his all round play and creating chances for others is still not good enough. Traore, despite the goal, is mostly just a liability. Barkley makes us a much better team as Jack then plays in one of the wide spots.
Post by: Astnor on January 02, 2021, 10:29:24 AM
Post by: Drummond on January 02, 2021, 11:18:47 AM
He'll bang them in soon.
As soon as the service improves.
Mentioned last night, we're two first team players short of a top 6 team, both are wingers. Short that and we'll fly.
You're right Mark. El Ghazi has improved, but while his shooting is miles better, his all round play and creating chances for others is still not good enough. Traore, despite the goal, is mostly just a liability. Barkley makes us a much better team as Jack then plays in one of the wide spots.
Yep. I agree with this. Barkley in the team last night in place of one or other would have made a big difference.
Post by: Drummond on January 02, 2021, 11:19:59 AM
Post by: john e on January 02, 2021, 11:31:35 AM
I just want to see him to trouble the goalie a bit more
when the ball goes wide to Watkins and he's about to deliver the ball into the box anyone else find themselves shouting at the tv 'what are you doing out there' he should be in and around the box more for me that's where the majority of goals are scored from
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on January 02, 2021, 12:17:48 PM
Post by: Mister E on January 02, 2021, 12:29:34 PM
Big question is Barkley's fitness: this hamstring of his has taken 6 weeks thus far; 7 if he were to play next week.You're right Mark. El Ghazi has improved, but while his shooting is miles better, his all round play and creating chances for others is still not good enough. Traore, despite the goal, is mostly just a liability. Barkley makes us a much better team as Jack then plays in one of the wide spots.He'll bang them in soon.As soon as the service improves.
Mentioned last night, we're two first team players short of a top 6 team, both are wingers. Short that and we'll fly.
I agree he would provide us with the chance to play a more balanced team.
Post by: West Derby Villan on January 02, 2021, 12:45:00 PM
And Watkins is great and will only get better. He's doing the right things but they just aren't coming off.
Agree, just a matter of time. The second half against Palace took a lot out of him, where he lead the line brilliantly. 48 hours later Chelsea then 72 hours later manure, it’s hardly surprising that his performance looks tired.
Post by: IFWaters on January 02, 2021, 01:04:31 PM
I like him he's good on the ball puts a shift in every game and is a great team player
I just want to see him to trouble the goalie a bit more
when the ball goes wide to Watkins and he's about to deliver the ball into the box anyone else find themselves shouting at the tv 'what are you doing out there' he should be in and around the box more for me that's where the majority of goals are scored from
Re him being out on the wing, Exactly ! Youre supposed to be in the box son ! Having said that he does alright out on the wing, combines well with our other players out there, its just we need a snarky poachy selfish linekerey type whose heatmap of his position on the pitch is a burning red blob between the penalty spot and 6 yard box. Someone with the mobility of Big Daddy and the reactions of a Ninja.
Post by: OCD on January 02, 2021, 01:06:23 PM
Big question is Barkley's fitness: this hamstring of his has taken 6 weeks thus far; 7 if he were to play next week.You're right Mark. El Ghazi has improved, but while his shooting is miles better, his all round play and creating chances for others is still not good enough. Traore, despite the goal, is mostly just a liability. Barkley makes us a much better team as Jack then plays in one of the wide spots.He'll bang them in soon.As soon as the service improves.
Mentioned last night, we're two first team players short of a top 6 team, both are wingers. Short that and we'll fly.
I agree he would provide us with the chance to play a more balanced team.
6 weeks is pretty standard for a hamstring. It's better to be fully confident that it's healed than to risk him too early and lose him for another 4 weeks when an extra week may have been the sensible approach.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on January 02, 2021, 01:06:41 PM
Post by: IFWaters on January 02, 2021, 01:28:22 PM
Mick Quinn?Or his latin cousin Diego Quinoa
Post by: VILLA MOLE on January 02, 2021, 02:02:24 PM
Mick Quinn?
You don’t hear about him much these days 🤔
Post by: Nii Lamptey on January 02, 2021, 03:40:37 PM
Currently, most of his service is coming from either a 'shoot on sight' El Ghazi or Traore (who blows hot and cold for me). The only one I can accuse him of where he should have got on the end of it was the Cash cross, but considering the work rate he's put in this season, the lad can be excused for being knackered.
Barkley helps Ollie - Helps create much more space for him and gives defenders something else to think about besides stopping the wing play.
Do desperately need another option - Ollie needs a rest, as well as competition for places, so that when he is struggling for goals, someone can help share the burden.
Keep doing what you're doing Ollie - The goals will come!
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on January 02, 2021, 04:10:23 PM
Post by: passport1 on January 02, 2021, 07:59:27 PM
Mick Quinn?
You don’t hear about him much these days 🤔
The only thing that could stop him was the local bookies.
Post by: CT on January 10, 2021, 09:00:04 PM
Doesn’t sound so good.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on January 10, 2021, 09:02:26 PM
Post by: LukeJames on January 10, 2021, 09:04:15 PM
Post by: Lizz on January 10, 2021, 09:14:22 PM
Something he’s put on social media “Block out negative, focus on the positive”.
Doesn’t sound so good.
Saw that on Instagram but didn't read anything into it.
Post by: Footy-Vill on January 17, 2021, 08:40:25 PM
One match recently he was desperately unlucky did everything but score.
Post by: eamonn on January 17, 2021, 10:16:14 PM
Post by: Drummond on January 18, 2021, 05:26:52 PM
He'd be two goals better off in 99.99% of football's history and the woodwork hattrick against Palace was just one of those days. Now, like Gabrielle, he's ready to rise again (sorry, I was subjected to the first Bridgid Jones Diary film last night).
yeah, Dreams Can come true.
Post by: eamonn on January 18, 2021, 07:39:25 PM
Post by: Dave P on January 21, 2021, 12:31:42 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 21, 2021, 12:52:49 PM
Post by: eamonn on January 21, 2021, 01:24:42 PM
Post by: Mister E on January 21, 2021, 01:34:01 PM
Wish he had been the one waiting for the tap in for Ramsey instead of being the one who crossed it.I think he'd be more effective if he was alongside another out-and-out striker
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 21, 2021, 01:52:52 PM
I thought he battled well last night and played good part in most of our counter attacks.
Should've had an assist aswell but Dias somehow from the ground scooped the ball past Ramsey when he was going to tap it in.
Post by: chrisw1 on January 21, 2021, 01:58:08 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 21, 2021, 02:14:56 PM
That was great work by Dias tbf.
From what I saw the ball missed his sliding foot and then somehow looped up from the other foot and evaded Ramsey, many times you'd see a defender doing that clearence and it either ending up in his own goal or hitting the forward standing right by it.
You forget how late on in the game it was as two minutes later we had the joke goal so our gameplan was nearly perfect.
Mind you straight after Mings sliced an average cross and that somehow didn't go in. Was convinced we'd get a 0-0 from that point.
When you play the top teams small details like that decide things. And VAR of course.
Post by: Flamingo Lane on January 21, 2021, 08:00:11 PM
Post by: Gerrin on January 21, 2021, 08:35:51 PM
Not that concerned. He’s getting in the right places and he’s been mugged off by two VAR decisions.
Totally agree, we're fortunately not reliable on a single goal scorer for the atm. I've seen enough of him so far to be convinced the goals will come. It's his first season in the PL.
Post by: garyellis on January 21, 2021, 08:40:13 PM
He's not perfect. He's not the finished article. But boy does he give it everything for the good of the team as a whole. It's been many a year since I've enjoyed watching a Villa forward as much as I'm enjoying watching Ollie Watkins this season.He has the potential to be as good as Dwight Yorke was for us.
Post by: West Derby Villan on January 21, 2021, 10:56:40 PM
Post by: Dave P on January 22, 2021, 08:43:33 AM
Post by: Risso on January 22, 2021, 08:58:25 AM
Post by: dicedlam on January 22, 2021, 10:16:53 AM
Having Barkley back through the middle and Jack playing back in his more usual role out wide will help with him getting more goals.
Absolutely no concerns with Ollie whatsoever.
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 22, 2021, 12:02:21 PM
Post by: WassallVillain on January 22, 2021, 01:11:31 PM
Post by: Ads on January 22, 2021, 02:32:51 PM
He was mentioned by Pep G. So he’s getting recognition from opposing managers as to what qualities he brings to the team.
What was said WV?
Post by: Dave P on January 24, 2021, 07:40:53 AM
I'm putting it out there. He's a very good player and works very very hard. But how long until we get concerned by his lack of goals?
You’re all welcome. Now for my next comment. Dean Smith - is anybody else concerned his not won us the title?
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 24, 2021, 08:21:05 AM
He is a great talent and has bags of potential.
Post by: WassallVillain on January 24, 2021, 10:34:25 AM
Sorry been away. Pep was pretty complimentary about all the forward power but commented particularly on Watkins strength and hold up play.He was mentioned by Pep G. So he’s getting recognition from opposing managers as to what qualities he brings to the team.
What was said WV?
Post by: colin69 on January 24, 2021, 10:47:03 AM
I look forward to many seasons of goals from Ollie.
Post by: Steve67 on January 24, 2021, 10:52:25 AM
Post by: Risso on January 24, 2021, 11:08:17 AM
He's such a down to earth lad too. Very humble, speaks well when interviewed. England squad beckons.
I think he's been a little bit too 'nice' at times this season, almost like he can't quite believe he belongs at this level. Which he absolutey does, he's got all the talent and work rate in the world. I think he just needs to add a bit more of a ruthless streak. Hand out a bollocking or two if another forward doesn't play him in etc.
Post by: eamonn on January 24, 2021, 11:12:47 AM
Post by: TelfordVilla on January 24, 2021, 11:21:30 AM
He was trying to point out something to El Ghazi as they both left the pitch. Looked like he was telling him to play him in, perhaps referring to Trez's late effort.yes he was. I dont think elghazi was too impressed.
Post by: Ads on January 24, 2021, 11:24:50 AM
He's very Vardy like in my opinion. He plays off the shoulder and for 90 minutes he runs the centre halves and the full backs. Down the channels, left or right, through the middle, he is a non-stop nuisance.
Vardy is obviously become very prolific, but the man has more devilment than Ollie. If he can add that to his game, then he will improve further.
The worry is, he is so crucial to how we play, that we need somebody as dogged as him as back up. Yes goals count and 7 in 17 is good and puts him on 15 for the season, but the effect his running has cannot be ignored.
Post by: LukeJames on January 24, 2021, 11:38:17 AM
His finish for the offside goal was excellent.
I just came on here to say the same. I was wanting him to play it across the box but smashed it low with his weeker foot right into the corner. Great finish.
Post by: LeeB on January 24, 2021, 11:53:22 AM
His finish for the offside goal was excellent.
I just came on here to say the same. I was wanting him to play it across the box but smashed it low with his weeker foot right into the corner. Great finish.
Not just the strike, the half yard he made to get it away was top drawer too.
Post by: Rory on January 24, 2021, 12:40:08 PM
He's such a down to earth lad too. Very humble, speaks well when interviewed. England squad beckons.
I think he's been a little bit too 'nice' at times this season, almost like he can't quite believe he belongs at this level. Which he absolutey does, he's got all the talent and work rate in the world. I think he just needs to add a bit more of a ruthless streak. Hand out a bollocking or two if another forward doesn't play him in etc.
Hopefully that ruthlessness will come as he plays more games and scores many more goals 🙂
Post by: darren woolley on January 24, 2021, 02:00:00 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 24, 2021, 02:15:44 PM
Post by: Goldie.7 on January 24, 2021, 02:49:35 PM
I noticed a really interesting stat earlier, Watkins has played 17 league games and got 7 goals but if you split that into games with and without Barkley in the team it's 7 in 7 and 0 in 10.
Another reason why we must do everything we can to keep Barkley with us for next season regardless of his injury history.
Post by: Dr Butler on January 24, 2021, 02:53:08 PM
I'm glad he scored he played well.
same here Darren, I really like him as a player...
UTV
The Doc
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 24, 2021, 03:13:57 PM
His finish for the offside goal was excellent.
He's very Vardy like in my opinion. He plays off the shoulder and for 90 minutes he runs the centre halves and the full backs. Down the channels, left or right, through the middle, he is a non-stop nuisance.
Vardy is obviously become very prolific, but the man has more devilment than Ollie. If he can add that to his game, then he will improve further.
The worry is, he is so crucial to how we play, that we need somebody as dogged as him as back up. Yes goals count and 7 in 17 is good and puts him on 15 for the season, but the effect his running has cannot be ignored.
The great thing is we are not solely reliant on him. He should have a few more this season but his hold up play and intense running creates spaces and opportunities for others. We are such a threat now because goals can come from anywhere.
Post by: OCD on January 24, 2021, 07:04:28 PM
Post by: West Derby Villan on January 24, 2021, 07:21:59 PM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on January 24, 2021, 07:29:11 PM
Let’s face it he’s becoming the player that we all wished for.
Yeah I love him.
Post by: Rory on January 24, 2021, 07:31:16 PM
Let’s face it he’s becoming the player that we all wished for.
Yeah I love him.
Agreed Percy. Everything just feels 'right'.
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 24, 2021, 07:42:29 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on January 24, 2021, 07:47:24 PM
Post by: brontebilly on January 24, 2021, 08:09:57 PM
He may need to work on his timing a little. He's on the shoulder so much that he seems to be borderline offside all the time.
Might have got away with it a bit more in the championship perhaps with no VAR. Really shouldn't have been caught offside for the second one yesterday, looking across the line. Same v West Brom. But he is getting in the right positions anyway, something we didn't have at all last season.
Post by: frank black on January 24, 2021, 08:47:34 PM
He's much more physical than I thought he'd be.
Unless he feels a slight touch in the box, of course.
Post by: usav on January 24, 2021, 09:08:17 PM
He's much more physical than I thought he'd be.
Unless he feels a slight touch in the box, of course.
Yep, actually got annoyed with him yesterday for going down way too easily. Gave up good potential scoring opportunities trying to cheat.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 24, 2021, 09:09:58 PM
Post by: VILLA MOLE on January 24, 2021, 09:13:34 PM
He's much more physical than I thought he'd be.
Unless he feels a slight touch in the box, of course.
Yep, actually got annoyed with him yesterday for going down way too easily. Gave up good potential scoring opportunities trying to cheat.
It looked a soft one
Post by: TelfordVilla on January 24, 2021, 09:16:40 PM
Post by: eamonn on January 24, 2021, 09:22:15 PM
Let’s face it he’s becoming the player that we all wished for.
Yeah I love him.
Agreed Percy. Everything just feels 'right'.
Why don't we live together?
Post by: usav on January 24, 2021, 09:26:19 PM
Bit strong.
Possibly. I love every part of his game other than that.....needs to stay on his feet.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 25, 2021, 04:07:03 AM
He may need to work on his timing a little. He's on the shoulder so much that he seems to be borderline offside all the time.
Might have got away with it a bit more in the championship perhaps with no VAR. Really shouldn't have been caught offside for the second one yesterday, looking across the line. Same v West Brom. But he is getting in the right positions anyway, something we didn't have at all last season.
I'm a huge fan of his but he does need to work on staying onside.
Post by: Havencheese on January 25, 2021, 05:54:02 AM
Another thing I’ve noticed is that I reckon he’s way too hard on himself. All players get frustrated and it’s good to have high expectations, he comes across as the consummate professional but I feel part of his drought may have been to do with dwelling on missed opportunities rather than resetting, being composed to focusing on seizing the next opportunity.
We really have a player though, seriously, Ollie’s been worth every penny and he’s only going to get better in this setup.
Post by: paul_e on January 25, 2021, 08:31:19 AM
Bit strong.
Possibly. I love every part of his game other than that.....needs to stay on his feet.
Staying on your feet doesn't work. Diving is a direct consequence of fouls only being given if you fall over so falling over with any contact in the box is the right thing to do. It's shit but it works.
Post by: eamonn on January 25, 2021, 10:00:00 AM
Post by: Havencheese on January 25, 2021, 02:16:37 PM
His body language after something doesn't come off is like a grumpy schoolkid, either pissed off at those around him or lacking confidence in himself.
I think it's the latter. After Liverpool, he's scalding himself for not getting a hattrick or four after a 7-2 win. Fine line between being professional and being too hard on oneself. Can't say it's something I'm too worried about, just part of his evolution. He's making others shine with his workrate but there's a cracking finisher in there in time.
Post by: fredm on January 25, 2021, 02:30:14 PM
He may need to work on his timing a little. He's on the shoulder so much that he seems to be borderline offside all the time.
Might have got away with it a bit more in the championship perhaps with no VAR. Really shouldn't have been caught offside for the second one yesterday, looking across the line. Same v West Brom. But he is getting in the right positions anyway, something we didn't have at all last season.
I'm a huge fan of his but he does need to work on staying onside.
But also I think the others, especially Grealish need to release the ball that little bit quicker. Ollie sees they have the ball, sees the gap and goes past the defender before the defender has time to adjust his body position to chase him. Unfortunately if the ball isn't released until a second or two later, he finds that he is offside. If he waits until he sees the ball is being released then the defender also has time to adjust himself and make the tackle.
Post by: Mister E on January 25, 2021, 04:53:45 PM
But also I think the others, especially Grealish need to release the ball that little bit quicker. Ollie sees they have the ball, sees the gap and goes past the defender before the defender has time to adjust his body position to chase him. Unfortunately if the ball isn't released until a second or two later, he finds that he is offside. If he waits until he sees the ball is being released then the defender also has time to adjust himself and make the tackle.There's some truth in this, Fred.
I think he may struggle against the physicality of Tarkowski and Mee on Wednesday: a good test for him (hope he survives!). Perhaps it's time to put Davis up front (to draw the 2 Burnley CB) and play Watkins in a wide role? - just a thought. Won't happen!
Post by: Risso on January 26, 2021, 09:43:34 AM
But also I think the others, especially Grealish need to release the ball that little bit quicker. Ollie sees they have the ball, sees the gap and goes past the defender before the defender has time to adjust his body position to chase him. Unfortunately if the ball isn't released until a second or two later, he finds that he is offside. If he waits until he sees the ball is being released then the defender also has time to adjust himself and make the tackle.There's some truth in this, Fred.
I think he may struggle against the physicality of Tarkowski and Mee on Wednesday: a good test for him (hope he survives!). Perhaps it's time to put Davis up front (to draw the 2 Burnley CB) and play Watkins in a wide role? - just a thought. Won't happen!
Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope!
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 26, 2021, 09:57:22 AM
But also I think the others, especially Grealish need to release the ball that little bit quicker. Ollie sees they have the ball, sees the gap and goes past the defender before the defender has time to adjust his body position to chase him. Unfortunately if the ball isn't released until a second or two later, he finds that he is offside. If he waits until he sees the ball is being released then the defender also has time to adjust himself and make the tackle.There's some truth in this, Fred.
I think he may struggle against the physicality of Tarkowski and Mee on Wednesday: a good test for him (hope he survives!). Perhaps it's time to put Davis up front (to draw the 2 Burnley CB) and play Watkins in a wide role? - just a thought. Won't happen!
Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope!
I concur. Why on earth would we want Davis starting?!
Post by: Mister E on January 26, 2021, 11:48:20 AM
Yeah, I know.I concur. Why on earth would we want Davis starting?!Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope!But also I think the others, especially Grealish need to release the ball that little bit quicker. Ollie sees they have the ball, sees the gap and goes past the defender before the defender has time to adjust his body position to chase him. Unfortunately if the ball isn't released until a second or two later, he finds that he is offside. If he waits until he sees the ball is being released then the defender also has time to adjust himself and make the tackle.There's some truth in this, Fred.
I think he may struggle against the physicality of Tarkowski and Mee on Wednesday: a good test for him (hope he survives!). Perhaps it's time to put Davis up front (to draw the 2 Burnley CB) and play Watkins in a wide role? - just a thought. Won't happen!
Just thinking about the physicality of the Burnley CB and giving Watkins a more fluid role. I don't want him getting 'done' as Wesley was.
It was a crazy idea ...
... I'll have to review my medication.
Post by: Risso on January 26, 2021, 11:57:00 AM
Post by: Drummond on January 26, 2021, 02:16:28 PM
I think his first touch has let him down once or twice, but that's pretty much my only criticism, other than needing to hold his run for a nanosecond longer so as not to be offside again.
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 26, 2021, 04:03:10 PM
I'd prefer Watkins' pace up against those cloggers, he'll run them ragged.
I think his first touch has let him down once or twice, but that's pretty much my only criticism, other than needing to hold his run for a nanosecond longer so as not to be offside again.
It let him down against Palace and AEG smashed a ball into the net at 1000mph from the lay off. But otherwise he has been very good and rarely loses possession in key areas.
Post by: WassallVillain on January 26, 2021, 08:05:10 PM
I’m sure it was a measured pass.I'd prefer Watkins' pace up against those cloggers, he'll run them ragged.
I think his first touch has let him down once or twice, but that's pretty much my only criticism, other than needing to hold his run for a nanosecond longer so as not to be offside again.
It let him down against Palace and AEG smashed a ball into the net at 1000mph from the lay off. But otherwise he has been very good and rarely loses possession in key areas.
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 26, 2021, 08:39:36 PM
I’m sure it was a measured pass.I'd prefer Watkins' pace up against those cloggers, he'll run them ragged.
I think his first touch has let him down once or twice, but that's pretty much my only criticism, other than needing to hold his run for a nanosecond longer so as not to be offside again.
It let him down against Palace and AEG smashed a ball into the net at 1000mph from the lay off. But otherwise he has been very good and rarely loses possession in key areas.
the pass to AEG was fine it was his initial touch that let him down from Jack's pass and stopped him from having the chance himself.
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 28, 2021, 03:16:41 AM
Post by: Vegas on January 28, 2021, 08:33:30 AM
Poor decision making last night
Once or twice, yes. But still loads of energy, and great movement with a tidy finish for his goal. Love what he brings.
Post by: LukeJames on January 28, 2021, 08:44:28 AM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on January 28, 2021, 10:43:37 AM
I think the first half was his best 45 since Liverpool at home.
Nah, his best game since was against Palace IMO
Post by: Smithy on January 28, 2021, 01:06:42 PM
He took his goal really well, and yes, he should have had another, but he certainly looks like he could get 20 goals this season if he stays fit.
Post by: eamonn on January 28, 2021, 02:23:24 PM
Post by: DrGonzo on January 28, 2021, 05:04:55 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on January 28, 2021, 06:04:18 PM
15+ league goals would be great. 20, first since Benteke (or Withe?) would be amazeballs.
If you are talking league goals, then Withe.
Post by: Drummond on January 29, 2021, 08:19:14 AM
15+ league goals would be great. 20, first since Benteke (or Withe?) would be amazeballs.
If you are talking league goals, then Withe.
Abraham surely?
Post by: algy on January 29, 2021, 08:31:03 AM
We're Aston Villa -- anything below the top flight is an abomination and doesn't count. It's against teams of the quality of Small Heath, after all.15+ league goals would be great. 20, first since Benteke (or Withe?) would be amazeballs.
If you are talking league goals, then Withe.
Abraham surely?
Post by: Drummond on January 29, 2021, 09:39:39 AM
We're Aston Villa -- anything below the top flight is an abomination and doesn't count. It's against teams of the quality of Small Heath, after all.15+ league goals would be great. 20, first since Benteke (or Withe?) would be amazeballs.
If you are talking league goals, then Withe.
Abraham surely?
OF course, what on earth was I thinking?!
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on January 31, 2021, 12:04:33 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on January 31, 2021, 12:50:21 PM
He'll lead our line for years to come and will improve year on year for a few of them.
Post by: wittonwarrior on January 31, 2021, 01:01:46 PM
Post by: West Derby Villan on January 31, 2021, 02:04:30 PM
He's a decent player no argument but what makes a very good forward is the ability to take chances quickly, Ollie holds onto the ball too long imo
He’s been in this league 6 months. He’s scoring goals, making goals, making chances, holding up the ball and giving the opposition defenders a torrid time, what more can he do, give him a break
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 31, 2021, 02:09:51 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 31, 2021, 02:11:34 PM
He's a decent player no argument but what makes a very good forward is the ability to take chances quickly, Ollie holds onto the ball too long imo
He is much more than a “decent player”. He’s had a bloody great start. Yes he’ll improve, but he’s done great.
Post by: Moonraker on January 31, 2021, 02:34:09 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 04, 2021, 09:48:06 AM
Post by: Duncan Shaw on February 04, 2021, 09:59:55 AM
Nice that Ollie is back on the goal scoring trail. Hope he learns (and I’m sure he will) from last night - two really poor control mistakes directly contributed to two goals. I felt particularly for the first one it was like he’d switched off for a moment.I don't disagree his control was poor at times - but for poor control in the opposition area to lead directly to a goal means there were a fair few others not doing there jobs in between! Harsh to blame Ollie.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on February 04, 2021, 10:04:15 AM
Nice that Ollie is back on the goal scoring trail. Hope he learns (and I’m sure he will) from last night - two really poor control mistakes directly contributed to two goals. I felt particularly for the first one it was like he’d switched off for a moment.I don't disagree his control was poor at times - but for poor control in the opposition area to lead directly to a goal means there were a fair few others not doing there jobs in between! Harsh to blame Ollie.
Totally agree Duncan
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 04, 2021, 10:29:13 AM
Post by: Risso on February 04, 2021, 10:58:13 AM
Why are we still hoofing the ball up to him?
God knows. If there's one thing last night showed, it's that holding long balls up absolutely isn't his game. Running onto balls, whether out wide, or through the middle as for his goal is how we should be doing it.
Post by: dcdavecollett on February 05, 2021, 02:40:33 AM
Deano referred to this in his post-match interview.
Post by: ROBBO on February 05, 2021, 08:25:56 AM
Post by: andyh on February 05, 2021, 09:59:40 AM
He is working his bollocks off, leading the line and scoring goals.
All after a ginormous step up in standard from where he has previously played.
For the price we paid, he’s looking a bloody bargain.
Post by: Nunkin1965 on February 05, 2021, 10:52:01 AM
Nice that Ollie is back on the goal scoring trail. Hope he learns (and I’m sure he will) from last night - two really poor control mistakes directly contributed to two goals. I felt particularly for the first one it was like he’d switched off for a moment.I don't disagree his control was poor at times - but for poor control in the opposition area to lead directly to a goal means there were a fair few others not doing there jobs in between! Harsh to blame Ollie.
Totally agree Duncan
Ollie did lose possession for a couple of the goals but we were absolutely wide open and there was so much time and opportunity to try and prevent the West Ham counter attacks.
He's tireless worker for the team and an absolute machine for us.
Post by: OCD on February 05, 2021, 11:49:13 AM
Post by: brontebilly on February 05, 2021, 12:28:52 PM
Post by: Drummond on February 05, 2021, 04:21:07 PM
Watkins is a goalscorer, he harries and chases lost causes, and the amount of distance he covers in a match must be something else for someone playing in his position.
Post by: CT on February 05, 2021, 09:16:38 PM
He's a decent player no argument but what makes a very good forward is the ability to take chances quickly, Ollie holds onto the ball too long imo
He is much more than a “decent player”. He’s had a bloody great start. Yes he’ll improve, but he’s done great.
I’ve listened to a lot of ex strikers over the last few weeks who have all waxed lyrical about Ollie and what he brings to the team, even when the goals dried up a bit. He’s working of the channels comes in for some significant praise.
Post by: darren woolley on February 06, 2021, 06:20:31 PM
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on February 06, 2021, 06:29:30 PM
Post by: Risso on February 06, 2021, 06:41:33 PM
Really hope he gets to 20, but to be on 10 with so much of the season left is a great effort. Think he will end up on 16-17 but will be rested a bit when Wesley comes back.
Don't think he'll need a rest. We don't have any more midweek games, so a game a week should be fine for all the squad. Our players have mostly played considerably fewer games so far than some players for the likes of Man City etc.
Post by: AV82EC on February 06, 2021, 07:36:18 PM
Really hope he gets to 20, but to be on 10 with so much of the season left is a great effort. Think he will end up on 16-17 but will be rested a bit when Wesley comes back.
Don't think he'll need a rest. We don't have any more midweek games, so a game a week should be fine for all the squad. Our players have mostly played considerably fewer games so far than some players for the likes of Man City etc.
Pedant alert - we're likely to have 2 more midweek fixtures as we need to play our catch up games against Everton and Tottenham.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 06, 2021, 10:54:27 PM
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on February 06, 2021, 11:08:37 PM
Really hope he gets to 20, but to be on 10 with so much of the season left is a great effort. Think he will end up on 16-17 but will be rested a bit when Wesley comes back.
Don't think he'll need a rest. We don't have any more midweek games, so a game a week should be fine for all the squad. Our players have mostly played considerably fewer games so far than some players for the likes of Man City etc.
Agree he won't necessarily need one, but I think the club will want to see Wesley start a few games. If nothing else they need to assess if he is able to play at this level so they can replace him in the summer if not. I am not writing him off especially given the incredible improvement in players like Targett this season but it is a bad injury he is coming back from and he will need game time to assess his level.
Post by: KevinGage on February 06, 2021, 11:14:08 PM
Can't see him starting unless injury or suspension forces our hand.
Post by: eamonn on February 06, 2021, 11:15:08 PM
I wonder if his goal will be chalked off by the dubious goals panel. His shot was going in the opposite direction (wide?) before the deflection.
Post by: KevinGage on February 06, 2021, 11:20:57 PM
I wonder if his goal will be chalked off by the dubious goals panel. His shot was going in the opposite direction (wide?) before the deflection.
Aye, my concern as well.
They'll have twats policing that sort of thing or giving out yellow cards for goal celebrations.
But no interest at all in fixing the bigger issues.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 06, 2021, 11:23:17 PM
I think today was perhaps his most complete performance. Defended from the front but also got plenty of shots off. Great engine, ability and attitude.
I wonder if his goal will be chalked off by the dubious goals panel. His shot was going in the opposite direction (wide?) before the deflection.
No, I think it was on target, so it'll stand. Nowhere near where it ended up, mind!
Did anybody else nearly fall off the sofa leaning over trying to make that one that bobbled wide go in?
Post by: Percy McCarthy on February 06, 2021, 11:36:22 PM
I wonder if his goal will be chalked off by the dubious goals panel. His shot was going in the opposite direction (wide?) before the deflection.
Aye, my concern as well.
They'll have twats policing that sort of thing or giving out yellow cards for goal celebrations.
But no interest at all in fixing the bigger issues.
No chance. It would almost certainly have been saved but no way was it going wide.
Post by: Villa Lew on February 07, 2021, 11:02:03 AM
Post by: Risso on February 07, 2021, 01:32:56 PM
Think he's been a brilliant signing, his work rate is unbelievable, can't think of too many, if any, strikers in the league I would swop him for and he's only gonna get better.
Agree totally. Ten goals in his first Premier League season would be a reasonable return for any young player from the Championship. The fact that he's done it at the halfway point is brilliant. It could and should be more as well.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on February 07, 2021, 01:48:16 PM
Ollie is a brilliant striker. He has good instincts and he also works so hard. He’s the sort of player you know will keep getting better.
Agree with all that. Also from watching MOTD pretty sure there was a moment in the first half when he received a long high ball on the left and just killed it with his first touch.
Post by: darren woolley on February 07, 2021, 06:10:51 PM
Ollie is a brilliant striker. He has good instincts and he also works so hard. He’s the sort of player you know will keep getting better.
Spot on.
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 08, 2021, 04:36:49 PM
Been very happy with him since we started playing again. Finishing touch returned and all round game is still good.
Post by: Martin Carruthers on February 08, 2021, 04:57:03 PM
Post by: FatSam on February 08, 2021, 05:00:32 PM
He seems quite an articulate chap as well. Don't know if it's deliberate, but we seem to have more than our fair share of players that have more about them than the usual footballer stereotype.It's obviously not the same as articulacy, but I'm enjoying the 'no dickheads' policy that has been mentioned a few times. As well as leading towards a happy squad, I find it easier to like them.
Post by: eamonn on February 08, 2021, 05:08:52 PM
Post by: DrGonzo on February 08, 2021, 05:13:07 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on February 08, 2021, 05:19:42 PM
Post by: LeeB on February 08, 2021, 05:22:56 PM
I love the bloke - best all round striker we've had since Yorke.
Better than Benteke? I think he will be in time, not the 'now' Benteke of course, our version.
Post by: N'ZMAV on February 08, 2021, 05:24:38 PM
Yeah, I think Benteke lacked in some areas Ollie doesn't - like movement and pace. I'm not saying Benteke was poor - he was class for us.I love the bloke - best all round striker we've had since Yorke.
Better than Benteke? I think he will be in time, not the 'now' Benteke of course, our version.
Post by: LeeB on February 08, 2021, 05:28:33 PM
Yeah, I think Benteke lacked in some areas Ollie doesn't - like movement and pace. I'm not saying Benteke was poor - he was class for us.I love the bloke - best all round striker we've had since Yorke.
Better than Benteke? I think he will be in time, not the 'now' Benteke of course, our version.
Agreed, although Benteke was better in the air and his all round finishing was stronger too, he usually had a lot less of the ball to work with.
Post by: eamonn on February 08, 2021, 06:25:05 PM
I've very much chuckled reading the last few pages, you can follow the pattern of our win/loss record by the tone of the posts about Ollie. He is either brilliant or not dependent on whether Vlla have won or lost!
Dolly O'Leary rolled his eyes scrolling through this thread from his Harrogate mansion earlier today, muttering something about sugar bags.
Post by: N'ZMAV on February 08, 2021, 06:38:39 PM
sadly for Benteke - he never played in a good Villa side. He'd have been even better with some decent players around him.Yeah, I think Benteke lacked in some areas Ollie doesn't - like movement and pace. I'm not saying Benteke was poor - he was class for us.I love the bloke - best all round striker we've had since Yorke.
Better than Benteke? I think he will be in time, not the 'now' Benteke of course, our version.
Agreed, although Benteke was better in the air and his all round finishing was stronger too, he usually had a lot less of the ball to work with.
Post by: Dave on February 08, 2021, 06:55:58 PM
Quote
Ollie Watkins
Boy is he loving life in the Premier League; there aren’t many better sights in the top flight than Watkins’ broad grin that marks another league goal. He’s now on 10 for the season, as many as he managed in his entire debut Championship campaign in 2018/19. It’s easy to forget that Watkins had never played higher than League Two level at the age of 21. Having turned 25 in December, he’s knocking politely on Gareth Southgate’s door.
But Watkins’ impact is only partly demonstrated by the goals he scores. Some lone central strikers wait for service, preferring to conserve energy and drift under the radar of centre-backs before springing into action. He is the opposite, constantly running the channels and harrying defenders into knocking the ball long. He lies second for chances created at Aston Villa and second only to Harry Kane of all centre-forwards in the Premier League.
That workload inevitably saps your energy, and so to Watkins’ greatest asset of all: his consistency of form and fitness. Since the beginning of last season (when still at Brentford), Watkins has played 6,320 of a possible 6,330 league minutes. Being lauded for being on the pitch might feel a little like damning with faint praise, but it shouldn’t. Dean Smith is able to build an attack around Watkins because he’s always there, always giving his all and nearly always making it work.
Post by: JD on February 09, 2021, 06:01:25 AM
From F365's Winners & Losers sectionQuoteOllie Watkins
Boy is he loving life in the Premier League; there aren’t many better sights in the top flight than Watkins’ broad grin that marks another league goal. He’s now on 10 for the season, as many as he managed in his entire debut Championship campaign in 2018/19. It’s easy to forget that Watkins had never played higher than League Two level at the age of 21. Having turned 25 in December, he’s knocking politely on Gareth Southgate’s door.
But Watkins’ impact is only partly demonstrated by the goals he scores. Some lone central strikers wait for service, preferring to conserve energy and drift under the radar of centre-backs before springing into action. He is the opposite, constantly running the channels and harrying defenders into knocking the ball long. He lies second for chances created at Aston Villa and second only to Harry Kane of all centre-forwards in the Premier League.
That workload inevitably saps your energy, and so to Watkins’ greatest asset of all: his consistency of form and fitness. Since the beginning of last season (when still at Brentford), Watkins has played 6,320 of a possible 6,330 league minutes. Being lauded for being on the pitch might feel a little like damning with faint praise, but it shouldn’t. Dean Smith is able to build an attack around Watkins because he’s always there, always giving his all and nearly always making it work.
What a great write up. Ollie is certainly getting noticed.
Post by: OCD on February 09, 2021, 11:06:30 AM
Post by: jwarry on February 09, 2021, 03:14:56 PM
And Watkins said of his new surroundings: "The facilities at Bodymoor Heath are huge. The pool, sauna and everything. They're making an even bigger complex as well. The family came around and we got a tour of Villa Park. I got my mum taking her shoes off saying, 'I want to feel the pitch with my shoes off'. I had my older brother pretending to score and celebrating. Fans would have loved it!
Post by: algy on February 11, 2021, 01:02:11 PM
And I live thisThat's fantastic. Struggling to think of any players in the current Villa squad that I don't like, but Ollie's just great. Brilliant player, and comes across as a really nice, grounded chap.
And Watkins said of his new surroundings: "The facilities at Bodymoor Heath are huge. The pool, sauna and everything. They're making an even bigger complex as well. The family came around and we got a tour of Villa Park. I got my mum taking her shoes off saying, 'I want to feel the pitch with my shoes off'. I had my older brother pretending to score and celebrating. Fans would have loved it!
Post by: Hookeysmith on February 11, 2021, 01:10:01 PM
And I live thisThat's fantastic. Struggling to think of any players in the current Villa squad that I don't like, but Ollie's just great. Brilliant player, and comes across as a really nice, grounded chap.
And Watkins said of his new surroundings: "The facilities at Bodymoor Heath are huge. The pool, sauna and everything. They're making an even bigger complex as well. The family came around and we got a tour of Villa Park. I got my mum taking her shoes off saying, 'I want to feel the pitch with my shoes off'. I had my older brother pretending to score and celebrating. Fans would have loved it!
Go back a few years and that statement was the complete opposite - what a fantastic turnaround
Post by: Jimsta on March 06, 2021, 07:36:28 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 06, 2021, 07:48:53 PM
Post by: CT on March 06, 2021, 08:43:28 PM
A real lack of quality around him tonight though.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 06, 2021, 09:43:12 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 06, 2021, 10:20:18 PM
Post by: eamonn on March 06, 2021, 10:24:30 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on March 06, 2021, 10:54:32 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 06, 2021, 11:00:25 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 06, 2021, 11:15:59 PM
Post by: Risso on March 06, 2021, 11:24:38 PM
Really really like him, but he's not clinical enough. I think I'd have him as one of the wider forwards next season in place of Traore who is so hit and miss it's unbelievable.
I agree with that, I think it'd suit his game, and he's a much better all round player than any of our wide players with the obvious exception of Jack. I don't think playing wider would unduly hit his goal return either.
Post by: West Derby Villan on March 07, 2021, 12:39:06 PM
Post by: OCD on March 07, 2021, 12:46:55 PM
Post by: nigel on March 07, 2021, 12:55:24 PM
Really really like him, but he's not clinical enough. I think I'd have him as one of the wider forwards next season in place of Traore who is so hit and miss it's unbelievable.
I agree with that, I think it'd suit his game, and he's a much better all round player than any of our wide players with the obvious exception of Jack. I don't think playing wider would unduly hit his goal return either.
He’s been an inch away from 7 extra goals this season.
When guys say he’s not clinical enough just add that 7 to his tally and see where he is.
I’d go with unlucky rather than not clinical enough
Post by: BC Villain on March 07, 2021, 01:03:45 PM
He's hit the woodwork 7 times this season, twice in the last 2 games that could have given us 4 points. Really unlucky.
Is it bad luck or is it that his finishing is poor? 10 goals looks impressive and his workrate is phenomenal. However, the number of big chances he's missed is 11. A more clinical and ruthless striker would have put more of those chances away.
Post by: Chris Smith on March 07, 2021, 01:07:18 PM
Really really like him, but he's not clinical enough. I think I'd have him as one of the wider forwards next season in place of Traore who is so hit and miss it's unbelievable.
I agree with that, I think it'd suit his game, and he's a much better all round player than any of our wide players with the obvious exception of Jack. I don't think playing wider would unduly hit his goal return either.
I think it would blunt his impact. Playing wide he’d be expected to track back more to protect the fullback which takes him away from where he’s best.
Post by: PeterWithe on March 07, 2021, 01:10:57 PM
We should have bought/lent quality back up in the Jan window though.
Post by: Risso on March 07, 2021, 01:24:05 PM
Really really like him, but he's not clinical enough. I think I'd have him as one of the wider forwards next season in place of Traore who is so hit and miss it's unbelievable.
I agree with that, I think it'd suit his game, and he's a much better all round player than any of our wide players with the obvious exception of Jack. I don't think playing wider would unduly hit his goal return either.
I think it would blunt his impact. Playing wide he’d be expected to track back more to protect the fullback which takes him away from where he’s best.
He'd be replacing Bert or Trez, who provide no support or no goal threat respectively, and so would be a huge upgrade on both.
Post by: nigel on March 07, 2021, 01:41:03 PM
Yes, maybe he could have had one or two more, but give the lad a break, he’s done phenomenally well.
Post by: LeeB on March 07, 2021, 02:01:40 PM
He's a total success for me, we couldn't have spent better in our position.
Post by: Luke8 on March 07, 2021, 02:05:20 PM
Really really like him, but he's not clinical enough. I think I'd have him as one of the wider forwards next season in place of Traore who is so hit and miss it's unbelievable.
I agree with that, I think it'd suit his game, and he's a much better all round player than any of our wide players with the obvious exception of Jack. I don't think playing wider would unduly hit his goal return either.
I think it would blunt his impact. Playing wide he’d be expected to track back more to protect the fullback which takes him away from where he’s best.
He'd be replacing Bert or Trez, who provide no support or no goal threat respectively, and so would be a huge upgrade on both.
Pretty harsh on Traore. He’s inconsistent but has definitely provide a goal threat this season.
I imagine the wide areas and striker would be positions we will look to strengthen in the summer, but I agree with Chris, I don’t see moving Watkins wide as the solution.
Post by: Mister E on March 07, 2021, 02:39:19 PM
He is a super player and needs a second or withdrawn striker to play alongside him. Last night I would have preferred to take off Traore and replace him with Barkley as a second striker. Louie Barry shows signs of potentially being that man next season.
Post by: aj2k77 on March 07, 2021, 02:46:09 PM
Really really like him, but he's not clinical enough. I think I'd have him as one of the wider forwards next season in place of Traore who is so hit and miss it's unbelievable.
I agree with that, I think it'd suit his game, and he's a much better all round player than any of our wide players with the obvious exception of Jack. I don't think playing wider would unduly hit his goal return either.
He’s been an inch away from 7 extra goals this season.
When guys say he’s not clinical enough just add that 7 to his tally and see where he is.
I’d go with unlucky rather than not clinical enough
It's poor finishing. It's not some weird twist of fate that on another day would somehow have gone in.
Post by: garyellis on March 07, 2021, 03:10:33 PM
Overall an excellent first season in the premier league
He is our modern day Dwight Yorke and will continue to improve
Post by: aj2k77 on March 07, 2021, 03:11:56 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on March 07, 2021, 03:13:02 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 07, 2021, 03:32:07 PM
That decision to pass to Bert was inexplicable, even to Bert, who was as surprised as the rest of us.
Yeah that was disappointing.
Got one v one against Coady, shifted it onto his right foot and was in the area.....and then just passed to Traore when a defender was right next to him so was always likely to cut it out.
Guess he hadn't scored that type of curling shot for a while so wasn't confident but hints to me at lack of ruthlessness as no way a Kane, Vardy or Salah would pass in that situaiton even if they hadn't scored for a few goals.
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 07, 2021, 03:36:16 PM
He's hit the woodwork 7 times this season, twice in the last 2 games that could have given us 4 points. Really unlucky.
Is it bad luck or is it that his finishing is poor? 10 goals looks impressive and his workrate is phenomenal. However, the number of big chances he's missed is 11. A more clinical and ruthless striker would have put more of those chances away.
Most of the woodwork strikes have been from shots outside the box as last night so not like he's missing them in six yard box.
I agree with the wide forward shout. Not full time but can certainly be a plan B option for games v top 6 next season as long as we sign a decent forward in the summer.
I do think he struggles against physical CBs sometimes. Was really tough for him to get into it second half but then we moved him wider for last 10 minutes and he won a couple of corners with his movement and we should've scored the winner from one so something to look at for next season rather than mindset of CF must play centrally for every minute of every game. Spurs have been playing Kane as number 10 hybrid for most of this season for example.
Post by: N'ZMAV on March 07, 2021, 03:38:43 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on March 07, 2021, 04:50:48 PM
would have 20 goals if it wasn't for the woodwork and dodgy decisions. A very good first top flight first season for Watkins. I really hope when we improve again this summer he's not pushed out wide - he's proved this season he has what it takes to be a top flight striker.
He has had a good season, but I just wonder whether he would be just as effective as a wide forward if we do bring in a real quality striker in the summer. He does do a lot of good work cutting in from the left, so do wonder if that would be an option.
Post by: OCD on March 07, 2021, 06:06:27 PM
Post by: nigel on March 07, 2021, 06:57:57 PM
I love Watkins but Yorke was special.
Yes, Yorke was special, but not a patch on Gary Shaw.
Post by: N'ZMAV on March 07, 2021, 07:00:45 PM
All his goals have been when Barkley has been playing. That stat is still a little concerning. We need to strengthen in that number 10 position. It would be good to have a centre forward who drops off in addition to an attacking midfielder who can be pushed forward. That would allow us to play a variation of 4-4-2 when teams come to our place and park the bus.wonder if we need to get someone closer to Watkins when Barkey isn't playing. A central midfielder might be the way to keep getting the best out of Watkins.
Post by: nigel on March 07, 2021, 07:02:28 PM
would have 20 goals if it wasn't for the woodwork and dodgy decisions. A very good first top flight first season for Watkins. I really hope when we improve again this summer he's not pushed out wide - he's proved this season he has what it takes to be a top flight striker.
This is what a couple of guys don’t seem to get. It’s his first season at anywhere near this level.
Scored 10 but could easily have been 15+
Post by: LukeJames on March 08, 2021, 02:59:00 PM
Watkins on his own has hit it 7 times.
Post by: Jon Crofts on March 08, 2021, 03:52:34 PM
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 08, 2021, 04:06:22 PM
Like another poster alluded to, sometimes a player can still hit the frame with “poor” finishing.
Post by: Drummond on March 08, 2021, 04:21:59 PM
Really really like him, but he's not clinical enough. I think I'd have him as one of the wider forwards next season in place of Traore who is so hit and miss it's unbelievable.
I agree with that, I think it'd suit his game, and he's a much better all round player than any of our wide players with the obvious exception of Jack. I don't think playing wider would unduly hit his goal return either.
He’s been an inch away from 7 extra goals this season.
When guys say he’s not clinical enough just add that 7 to his tally and see where he is.
I’d go with unlucky rather than not clinical enough
It's poor finishing. It's not some weird twist of fate that on another day would somehow have gone in.
You're right that shot that hit the bar on Saturday was poor. I mean, really, how couldn't he have hit it from that distance and managed to get it to dip by 2 inches. Needs to work on it.
Post by: LukeJames on March 08, 2021, 04:26:50 PM
Like another poster alluded to, sometimes a player can still hit the frame with “poor” finishing.
Apart from Ronny Rosenthal I cant think of many other occasions. Was his header against Sheff Utd or his shot against Wolves poor finishing?
Post by: Drummond on March 08, 2021, 04:29:39 PM
Post by: LeeB on March 08, 2021, 04:31:54 PM
Watkins is proving to be worth every penny and more. He's a revelation as far as I'm concerned, I'm pretty sure he'd be applauded many times every match for the effort he puts in chasing lost causes.
Worth noting that also outside the club he's regarded as an unqualified success, commentators are generally purring over him during games.
If we didn't have him, we'd all be saying we need someone like him.
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 08, 2021, 04:33:21 PM
Like another poster alluded to, sometimes a player can still hit the frame with “poor” finishing.
Apart from Ronny Rosenthal I cant think of many other occasions. Was his header against Sheff Utd or his shot against Wolves poor finishing?
I said a player can hit the frame with poor finishing, not Ollie Watkins specifically.
You’re arguably closer to scoring from a finger tip save from the keeper when the effort is actually on target than a frame strike.
I hope we aren’t including his penalty miss in this woodwork stat?
Btw, Ollies been immense this season and could become a legend.
Post by: OCD on March 08, 2021, 04:33:33 PM
Like another poster alluded to, sometimes a player can still hit the frame with “poor” finishing.
Apart from Ronny Rosenthal I cant think of many other occasions. Was his header against Sheff Utd or his shot against Wolves poor finishing?
Rosenthal's effort was quite impressive. You would struggle to do intentionally.
Post by: eric woolban woolban on March 09, 2021, 10:04:23 PM
Like another poster alluded to, sometimes a player can still hit the frame with “poor” finishing.
Apart from Ronny Rosenthal I cant think of many other occasions. Was his header against Sheff Utd or his shot against Wolves poor finishing?
Rosenthal's effort was quite impressive. You would struggle to do intentionally.
It was mentioned in the commentary in Saturday.
Post by: eamonn on March 09, 2021, 11:51:51 PM
I don’t get the fascination with woodwork struck stats, don’t get me wrong, if it hits the inside and goes adjacent to the goal line you could feel hard done by, but hitting the face of the frame doesn’t mean a great deal.
Like another poster alluded to, sometimes a player can still hit the frame with “poor” finishing.
I get your point but hitting the woodwork has been fetishized since Brazilian fellas kicked oranges against palm trees.
Post by: Neil Hawkes on March 10, 2021, 08:28:16 AM
I would like to see a forward three of Ollie, Wesley & Jack as a starting line-up; with AEG-Traore-Barkley-Davis-Trez as impact subs whenever required & especially whenever other teams go down to 10 menAll his goals have been when Barkley has been playing. That stat is still a little concerning. We need to strengthen in that number 10 position. It would be good to have a centre forward who drops off in addition to an attacking midfielder who can be pushed forward. That would allow us to play a variation of 4-4-2 when teams come to our place and park the bus.wonder if we need to get someone closer to Watkins when Barkey isn't playing. A central midfielder might be the way to keep getting the best out of Watkins.
Post by: SheffieldVillain on March 18, 2021, 02:03:59 PM
Well done Ollie!
Post by: richtheholtender on March 18, 2021, 02:07:53 PM
Post by: LukeJames on March 18, 2021, 02:08:05 PM
Post by: Drummond on March 18, 2021, 02:15:37 PM
Barkley take note.
Post by: paul_e on March 18, 2021, 02:31:09 PM
Post by: Gareth on March 18, 2021, 02:55:32 PM
Hope he gets some playing time in these games now
Post by: Nunkin1965 on March 18, 2021, 03:13:35 PM
Made my day and huge congratulations to Ollie as its well deserved.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on March 18, 2021, 03:17:33 PM
Post by: Smithy on March 18, 2021, 03:17:52 PM
Post by: Clampy on March 18, 2021, 03:33:50 PM
Post by: SamTheMouse on March 18, 2021, 03:35:03 PM
Well done Ollie!
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 18, 2021, 03:36:22 PM
But someone please speak loud and slowly to me as to why Dier is in the squad and Konsa isn't? Dier, who cannot get a game for his club versus one of the most inform, exciting young CB talents in the PL today? And maybe to a slightly lesser degree Matt Targett, easily one of the best LB's in England right now.
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on March 18, 2021, 03:43:54 PM
Don't want him getting injured, we can't replace him.
Post by: eamonn on March 18, 2021, 04:40:41 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 18, 2021, 04:46:43 PM
Post by: nevillain on March 18, 2021, 04:47:30 PM
But someone please speak loud and slowly to me as to why Dier is in the squad and Konsa isn't? Dier, who cannot get a game for his club versus one of the most inform, exciting young CB talents in the PL today? And maybe to a slightly lesser degree Matt Targett, easily one of the best LB's in England right now.
[/quote]
Because Southgate is a short sighted cnut
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on March 18, 2021, 05:00:15 PM
If he plays he will be the 76th Villa player to represent England, taking us second equal with Corinthians and two players behind Spurzzz.
Hopefully Konza and Targett are not far behind in winning recognition. UTV.
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 18, 2021, 05:31:17 PM
Well deserved and with three matches in quick succession, two of them 'easy' by international standards and Kane not long back from injury, I can see every reason for Ollie to start in at least one game.
If he plays he will be the 76th Villa player to represent England, taking us second equal with Corinthians and two players behind Spurzzz.
Hopefully Konza and Targett are not far behind in winning recognition. UTV.
Are you sure about that? We held the record for years so unless Corinthians have suddenly had a load more internationals I can't see how they've overtaken us.
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on March 18, 2021, 05:42:50 PM
As per this website: http://www.englandfootballonline.com/TeamClubs/MostPlyrs.htmlWell deserved and with three matches in quick succession, two of them 'easy' by international standards and Kane not long back from injury, I can see every reason for Ollie to start in at least one game.
If he plays he will be the 76th Villa player to represent England, taking us second equal with Corinthians and two players behind Spurzzz.
Hopefully Konza and Targett are not far behind in winning recognition. UTV.
Are you sure about that? We held the record for years so unless Corinthians have suddenly had a load more internationals I can't see how they've overtaken us.
Post by: TelfordVilla on March 18, 2021, 06:14:45 PM
Post by: Ian. on March 18, 2021, 06:29:24 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on March 18, 2021, 06:45:58 PM
As per this website: http://www.englandfootballonline.com/TeamClubs/MostPlyrs.htmlWell deserved and with three matches in quick succession, two of them 'easy' by international standards and Kane not long back from injury, I can see every reason for Ollie to start in at least one game.
If he plays he will be the 76th Villa player to represent England, taking us second equal with Corinthians and two players behind Spurzzz.
Hopefully Konza and Targett are not far behind in winning recognition. UTV.
Are you sure about that? We held the record for years so unless Corinthians have suddenly had a load more internationals I can't see how they've overtaken us.
If you click on the Corinthians link there's a lot of players included "with" another team so I don't think they were necessarily playing for Corinthians when they played for England. Didn't realise Spurs had overtaken us.
Post by: wittonwarrior on March 18, 2021, 06:48:48 PM
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 18, 2021, 06:49:59 PM
Post by: Steve67 on March 18, 2021, 06:52:27 PM
Post by: Dave on March 18, 2021, 06:57:34 PM
I'm pleased for him but on the fence as if he is really ready for international football.
You've seen some of the dross that play international football? Reckon a bunch of people cobbled together from this forum might well be ready for San Marino and Albania.
Post by: wittonwarrior on March 18, 2021, 07:02:17 PM
I'm pleased for him but on the fence as if he is really ready for international football.
You've seen some of the dross that play international football? Reckon a bunch of people cobbled together from this forum might well be ready for San Marino and Albania.
Is that Dave from Bath? Oh I am not disagreeing with you. Just think its come too soon for him, but what do I know.
Post by: SaddVillan on March 18, 2021, 07:13:34 PM
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 18, 2021, 07:16:44 PM
The fact that Ollie's got the nod over diver supreme Bamford makes his selection all the sweeter.
Love this, bet Leeds forums are spitting whippet hairs over this!
Post by: darren woolley on March 18, 2021, 07:47:14 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on March 18, 2021, 07:50:31 PM
The general standard of England strikers at the minute isn't anywhere near the standard is was in the mid-90's though. Look at this list...
Alan Shearer
Teddy Sheringham
Andy Cole
Robbie Fowler
Les Ferdinand
Ian Wright
Chris Sutton
Matt Le Tissier
Stan Collymore
Dion Dublin
Post by: eamonn on March 18, 2021, 08:13:47 PM
Well done Ollie, watch out for that crossbar at Wembley !
Why, have the Scots broken it again ?
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 18, 2021, 08:30:05 PM
Well done Ollie, watch out for that crossbar at Wembley !
Why, have the Scots broken it again ?
The Scots couldn’t break an egg these days.
Post by: olaftab on March 18, 2021, 08:53:56 PM
I like Watkins - he's done well, and his goal return doesn't do him justice. Without VAR and the woodwork he'd have 20 goals by now.Agree with that. I would like Ollie to develop his game like Shearer did and Kane is doing now.
The general standard of England strikers at the minute isn't anywhere near the standard is was in the mid-90's though. Look at this list...
Alan Shearer
Teddy Sheringham
Andy Cole
Robbie Fowler
Les Ferdinand
Ian Wright
Chris Sutton
Matt Le Tissier
Stan Collymore
Dion Dublin
Post by: brontebilly on March 18, 2021, 09:02:52 PM
Post by: LeeB on March 18, 2021, 09:11:27 PM
I like Ollie but not sure he is England international standard yet to be honest. Might not be popular to say but I think he a bit fortunate to get in based on recent form.
That does surprise me, you're usually so effusive with your praise.
Post by: Risso on March 18, 2021, 09:35:45 PM
Still, delighted for him, there isn't a harder working striker in the league.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 18, 2021, 09:40:57 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 18, 2021, 09:46:53 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on March 18, 2021, 10:25:47 PM
Post by: West Derby Villan on March 18, 2021, 11:30:54 PM
Post by: Scovilla on March 19, 2021, 12:29:43 AM
Well down Dean to bring to villa. I fucking love our club.
UTV.
Post by: Scovilla on March 19, 2021, 12:32:00 AM
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on March 19, 2021, 07:28:59 AM
Post by: Risso on March 19, 2021, 07:32:39 AM
If your looking at it objectively Bamford is a twat but I guess he’s looking at the future by picking Ollie.
FTFY
Post by: sid1964 on March 19, 2021, 07:55:23 AM
Post by: The Edge on March 19, 2021, 08:28:06 AM
Surprised Bamford did not also get called up - as he has scored more goals but Southgate judges his players on their work rate for the teamI don't think Bamford is good enough. But his shithousery is first class which might actually work at international level.
Post by: LeeB on March 19, 2021, 08:38:01 AM
Post by: aj2k77 on March 19, 2021, 08:47:48 AM
Post by: OCD on March 19, 2021, 10:48:58 AM
Post by: brontebilly on March 19, 2021, 10:58:24 AM
Surprised Bamford did not also get called up - as he has scored more goals but Southgate judges his players on their work rate for the team
Southgates judgement on players isn't exactly the best barometer.....see Grealish, Jack. Or even Konsa of late.
Think Bamford's hold up play, particularly his first touch, is a level above Watkins. Ignore the histrionics he brings and he's a fine player let's be honest. Better suited to playing at a higher level than he was in the championship. Watkins is tougher, runs the channels a lot better and is quicker. But I'm quite surprised he got selected based on his recent form for us.
Post by: nigel on March 19, 2021, 06:49:13 PM
Probably means Brentford get another few quid out of us too. Well done Ollie, deserved call up.
His call up will most likely be the trigger that takes it from £28m to £30m (if I’ve remembered figures correctly)
But at the same time his value will almost certainly have doubled
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on March 19, 2021, 07:35:06 PM
Post by: brian green on March 19, 2021, 08:53:59 PM
Post by: OCD on March 19, 2021, 09:17:35 PM
Post by: nigel on March 20, 2021, 10:21:46 AM
Would he have been the same player though? Harsh to not give Brentford some credit for developing him into the player we bought. We were still getting our shit together as a club during the same time and he could have become another Jordan Bowery or any number of failed youth products we've had without those experiences that moulded him into the player he is.
Agree.
We hadn’t got the best record of bringing players like that on.
I’m not saying Jordan Bowery would have reached the same level, but it would have been interesting to see how things had turned out for him had he gone to somewhere like Brentford under Deans guidance
Post by: KevinGage on March 20, 2021, 11:18:17 AM
Probably means Brentford get another few quid out of us too. Well done Ollie, deserved call up.
His call up will most likely be the trigger that takes it from £28m to £30m (if I’ve remembered figures correctly)
But at the same time his value will almost certainly have doubled
Is it the call up to the squad that triggers the extra payment or the appearance?
We've had players called up to the England squad before who haven't actually featured.
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 20, 2021, 02:00:03 PM
Would he have been the same player though? Harsh to not give Brentford some credit for developing him into the player we bought. We were still getting our shit together as a club during the same time and he could have become another Jordan Bowery or any number of failed youth products we've had without those experiences that moulded him into the player he is.
I agree. I get Brian's frustrations but remember where we were as a club in those days, he'd have likely come here, got lost in the system and we'd have sold him somewhere else for 2-3. He'd have done a James Bree.
It's not like we ignored the lower leagues either, our 2012 transfer window was practically shopping in it with Lowton, Westwood, Bennett and Bowery all coming in.
Think when Ollie first started at Brentford he was on the bench a bit and needed a good six months to get up to speed to championship so I doubt he'd have got that patience here.
Post by: nigel on March 20, 2021, 04:44:50 PM
Probably means Brentford get another few quid out of us too. Well done Ollie, deserved call up.
His call up will most likely be the trigger that takes it from £28m to £30m (if I’ve remembered figures correctly)
But at the same time his value will almost certainly have doubled
Is it the call up to the squad that triggers the extra payment or the appearance?
We've had players called up to the England squad before who haven't actually featured.
That’s true, you’re probably right
Post by: algy on March 20, 2021, 08:42:17 PM
Post by: West Derby Villan on March 21, 2021, 12:34:50 AM
Would he have been the same player though? Harsh to not give Brentford some credit for developing him into the player we bought. We were still getting our shit together as a club during the same time and he could have become another Jordan Bowery or any number of failed youth products we've had without those experiences that moulded him into the player he is.
I agree. I get Brian's frustrations but remember where we were as a club in those days, he'd have likely come here, got lost in the system and we'd have sold him somewhere else for 2-3. He'd have done a James Bree.
It's not like we ignored the lower leagues either, our 2012 transfer window was practically shopping in it with Lowton, Westwood, Bennett and Bowery all coming in.
Think when Ollie first started at Brentford he was on the bench a bit and needed a good six months to get up to speed to championship so I doubt he'd have got that patience here.
Enda Stevens has done ok since he left as well
Post by: Ian. on March 21, 2021, 12:50:49 AM
Could have had him for £500k from Exeter.We could have done, however the cash injection they have had from this makes me happy too. They are a local club to me, all my kids were born in Exeter and this will keep a small club going for years.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 21, 2021, 01:21:12 AM
Could have had him for £500k from Exeter.We could have done, however the cash injection they have had from this makes me happy too. They are a local club to me, all my kids were born in Exeter and this will keep a small club going for years.
Yes and also I’m not sure Villa would have been right for him then. Clearly it can’t be proven, but I bet Ollie wouldn’t be the player he is now had he joined us in 2017.
Post by: Bernie on March 23, 2021, 08:26:37 AM
Post by: Edvard Remberg on March 23, 2021, 12:10:31 PM
He would have been burned at the stake several times by the fans.Could have had him for £500k from Exeter.We could have done, however the cash injection they have had from this makes me happy too. They are a local club to me, all my kids were born in Exeter and this will keep a small club going for years.
Yes and also I’m not sure Villa would have been right for him then. Clearly it can’t be proven, but I bet Ollie wouldn’t be the player he is now had he joined us in 2017.
Post by: algy on March 25, 2021, 09:50:58 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/mar/25/ollie-watkins-non-league-england-weston-super-mare
Quote
'His own biggest critic': Ollie Watkins' road from non-league to England
Coaches from his days at Weston-super-Mare and Exeter recall the drive of the Aston Villa striker set for an international debut
It is a little more than six years since Ollie Watkins scored a dozen minutes into his Weston-super-Mare debut, stepping off the bench to propel the Conference South’s bottom club to a 4-3 victory over Farnborough Town before 130 spectators. On Thursday the Aston Villa striker could make his England debut in a World Cup qualifier and this time millions will be watching, none prouder than those who helped his remarkable rise from Exeter City to the Premier League, via a six-month crash course in the sixth tier.
When an 18-year-old Watkins walked through the door at Weston, the part-time club had lost eight on the bounce and were staring at relegation. He signed on loan from Exeter alongside Matt Jay, one of his closest friends, in search of experience. “They were thrown in at the deep end,” says Ryan Northmore, Watkins’ manager at Weston. “I brought Ollie on, he ended up scoring and it just gave everybody a huge lift, it brought momentum and that 40 minutes he was on the pitch was the turning point for us. We never looked back. We were cut adrift but secured our safety with plenty of games to go and it was a monumental effort from everybody. We got over that finishing line and collapsed into a heap.”
It was at Weston where Dean Smith, who signed the striker for Brentford before taking him to Villa for a club record £28m last summer, spotted Watkins. He scored 10 goals in 24 games but the loan did more than sharpen his instincts in the box. A selfless performance against Ebbsfleet, Northmore says, sticks in the memory, as does an irresistible display at Wealdstone that led to home supporters applauding Watkins off, but perhaps the biggest takeaway was the hunger it gave him.
Watkins, Northmore says, learned the value of “winning headers in your own box at a corner” and doing the unglamorous side of the game. “Academy football is very much focused on what you do with the ball, so if you’re a forward player sometimes you are just waiting at the end of a passing chain,” he says. “If that is the only way you are going to get on the ball, then you are not going to be on it very much when you’re in a team that is struggling.
“It was about saying: ‘Look, you can create goals, have a go at people and express yourself, but there are maybe five or six goals for you if you force errors from defenders, if you set traps and if you apply that pressure.’ He would take praise and criticism – he got a lot of tough love from me – but he took it really well because he recognised that it needed to happen in order to improve.”
Watkins has earned his stripes, showcasing his speed and athleticism whether as an emergency left-back, as he was on Exeter’s pre-season tour of Scotland after returning from Weston, or the talisman as Brentford chased promotion. He is one of 22 players in the 26-man England squad for the games against San Marino, Albania and Poland who have come through an English Football League club, played in the EFL or made their debut in the competition.
“Some of the qualities you see now in Ollie at Premier League level are some of the lasting images I have of him on a pitch playing for Exeter,” says Watkins’ former youth-team manager, Kevin Nicholson. “His ability to hold off opponents in one v one situations, to press defenders, he was always very hard-working, very determined. He was his own biggest critic. He would always come to you and challenge you as a coach, to continually help him to develop. He would say: ‘What can I do better in this situation?’ He would always be there after training practising, even if it was the simplest of things, sending free-kicks into an empty goal.”
Watkins was part of a talented crop of youngsters at fan-owned Exeter, including the now Swansea captain Matt Grimes, the Peterborough goalkeeper Christy Pym and Ethan Ampadu, who was in the under-14s; cutouts of all three form a mural at Exeter’s training base and last year Ben Chrisene, who made his Villa debut against Liverpool in January aged 16, became the latest prospect to be picked up from their academy.
“Ollie is a great example for young players on their development journey now,” says Nicholson. “It isn’t as straightforward as an upward curve. There isn’t one route to fulfilling your potential as a young player. It isn’t always going to be academy, all the way through from under-nines to under-18s, into under-23s and then directly into the first team.”
Watkins has done the yards to get here. “He wouldn’t get pushed off the ball at the age of 18 or 19 but needed to get kicked to get angry, to show his strength,” says Northmore, now an academy coach at Southampton. “He wasn’t one to bring it to the table first but when he got into that mood and got a little aggressive, that was when his strength really came out. I don’t feel like that needs to happen now because he imposes himself on games from the start. He doesn’t wait around. He needed someone to get him wound up a bit and then you saw his turbo kick in. And then he would take off.”
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 25, 2021, 09:01:43 PM
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 25, 2021, 09:05:36 PM
Post by: Drummond on March 25, 2021, 09:25:15 PM
Post by: bilsim on March 25, 2021, 09:28:15 PM
Post by: CT on March 25, 2021, 09:34:42 PM
Post by: Nunkin1965 on March 25, 2021, 09:36:32 PM
England goalscorer.
Post by: curiousorange on March 25, 2021, 09:44:17 PM
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 25, 2021, 09:45:48 PM
Post by: Rudy65 on March 25, 2021, 09:46:13 PM
Exactly the kind of interview we'd all have expected from Ollie there. What a future this boy has, and doesn't he deserve it.
What a boy. Top man , proud to call him one of our own. Like that Ty seemed so pleased for him as well
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 25, 2021, 09:46:31 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on March 25, 2021, 09:48:28 PM
Post by: KRS on March 25, 2021, 09:57:20 PM
Post by: manic-road on March 25, 2021, 10:18:09 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 25, 2021, 10:19:04 PM
Post by: West Derby Villan on March 25, 2021, 11:06:13 PM
Post by: Smithy on March 25, 2021, 11:23:15 PM
Post by: eamonn on March 25, 2021, 11:44:35 PM
Post by: mrfuse on March 26, 2021, 12:17:40 AM
Despite a lot of quality players coming through for England its the one position that we haven't got that many options. Obviously Kane is a great striker but does get injured and I don't rate anyone else as a main striker apart from Ollie at the moment.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 26, 2021, 06:57:03 AM
As much as I don’t like him Bamford has.
Post by: Allan C on March 26, 2021, 07:37:10 AM
Post by: Risso on March 26, 2021, 08:04:13 AM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 26, 2021, 09:16:47 AM
Post by: Drummond on March 26, 2021, 09:31:23 AM
According to someone on Talk Sport he’s the latest Villa player that needs to move to a bigger club.
We should move all of our players on...
For the first time in a long time it feels like we can keep players; we're progressing and I reckon most of the squad know they can get better with us.
Post by: Smithy on March 26, 2021, 09:59:53 AM
No? Just Ollie then...
Post by: LeeB on March 26, 2021, 10:15:03 AM
Is there any striker in world football who has a 100% shots to goals ratio on the International stage?
No? Just Ollie then...
His only other meaningful touch was to drop a perfect cross onto Bellingham's toe, which the useless bluenose bastard shanked.
Post by: Dave on March 26, 2021, 10:16:32 AM
Is there any striker in world football who has a 100% shots to goals ratio on the International stage?Does David Nugent still count from back in the day?
No? Just Ollie then...
Post by: Smithy on March 26, 2021, 11:28:41 AM
Is there any striker in world football who has a 100% shots to goals ratio on the International stage?Does David Nugent still count from back in the day?
No? Just Ollie then...
I guess he does, not sure if he had another shot though? Think Franny Jeffers was also one sub appearance and one goal?
But for now, I'm going to continue believing Ollie is the only player in International football who has scored with every shot he's ever had!
Post by: OCD on March 26, 2021, 11:29:12 AM
Post by: Hookeysmith on March 26, 2021, 11:37:31 AM
Post by: aj2k77 on March 26, 2021, 01:22:34 PM
Is there any striker in world football who has a 100% shots to goals ratio on the International stage?
No? Just Ollie then...
His only other meaningful touch was to drop a perfect cross onto Bellingham's toe, which the useless bluenose bastard shanked.
He's as much of a Nose as my arsehole, played less games than someone like Lee Novak, scored as many goals as Gabby has at the sty and wasn't even born in Birmingham. Nose my arse.
Post by: Jon Crofts on March 26, 2021, 01:29:25 PM
Is there any striker in world football who has a 100% shots to goals ratio on the International stage?
No? Just Ollie then...
His only other meaningful touch was to drop a perfect cross onto Bellingham's toe, which the useless bluenose bastard shanked.
He's as much of a Nose as my arsehole, played less games than someone like Lee Novak, scored as many goals as Gabby has at the sty and wasn't even born in Birmingham. Nose my arse.
Are you a dog?
Post by: Jon Crofts on March 26, 2021, 01:30:59 PM
https://www.devonlive.com/sport/football/football-news/dream-debut-ollie-watkins-scores-5230355
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 26, 2021, 01:53:44 PM
Even making the news in the Republic of Devon
https://www.devonlive.com/sport/football/football-news/dream-debut-ollie-watkins-scores-5230355
I have a nephew who lives in Newton Abbot. I’ve just messaged him and requested data on the % increase of ‘Watkins’ Villa shirts seen in the area.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 26, 2021, 01:55:02 PM
They are so proud of his debut they are going to retire 2 stands in his honour.Is there any striker in world football who has a 100% shots to goals ratio on the International stage?
No? Just Ollie then...
His only other meaningful touch was to drop a perfect cross onto Bellingham's toe, which the useless bluenose bastard shanked.
He's as much of a Nose as my arsehole, played less games than someone like Lee Novak, scored as many goals as Gabby has at the sty and wasn't even born in Birmingham. Nose my arse.
Class.
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 26, 2021, 02:07:26 PM
Is there any striker in world football who has a 100% shots to goals ratio on the International stage?
No? Just Ollie then...
His only other meaningful touch was to drop a perfect cross onto Bellingham's toe, which the useless bluenose bastard shanked.
He's as much of a Nose as my arsehole, played less games than someone like Lee Novak, scored as many goals as Gabby has at the sty and wasn't even born in Birmingham. Nose my arse.
This.
He won’t give the noses a second thought when he’s pictured at
Bodymoor Heath.
Post by: Jon Crofts on March 26, 2021, 02:10:01 PM
Even making the news in the Republic of Devon
https://www.devonlive.com/sport/football/football-news/dream-debut-ollie-watkins-scores-5230355
I have a nephew who lives in Newton Abbot. I’ve just messaged him and requested data on the % increase of ‘Watkins’ Villa shirts seen in the area.
I saw a kid in a Blues shirt in Teignmouth the other day, poor kid, I reported him to social services.
Post by: LeeB on March 26, 2021, 02:14:25 PM
Is there any striker in world football who has a 100% shots to goals ratio on the International stage?
No? Just Ollie then...
His only other meaningful touch was to drop a perfect cross onto Bellingham's toe, which the useless bluenose bastard shanked.
He's as much of a Nose as my arsehole, played less games than someone like Lee Novak, scored as many goals as Gabby has at the sty and wasn't even born in Birmingham. Nose my arse.
I'm sorry, but if he scores for England he's nothing to do with them, but any error and he's a stonewall rag.
Post by: DevonSteve on March 26, 2021, 06:41:20 PM
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on March 26, 2021, 07:20:48 PM
The West Country are really proud of Ollie. Reports of him being picked and playing for England have been on the local news and in the papers.did it feature ahead of the big news story of a shed getting broken into in Starcross .......only kidding Steve , I have lots of fond memories of Devon, specifically the pubs and clubs in Torquay :)
Post by: aj2k77 on March 26, 2021, 07:35:20 PM
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 26, 2021, 07:37:53 PM
World Cup 2022 will be his time after he picks up the FA Cup 2022.
Post by: Louzie0 on March 26, 2021, 07:52:57 PM
It would, however I feel Konsa won’t get picked after this latest squad.That’s the spirit!
World Cup 2022 will be his time after he picks up the FA Cup 2022.
I hope so, too.
Post by: Louzie0 on March 26, 2021, 07:54:25 PM
Just in time to break the duck for Fulham. 👍
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on March 26, 2021, 08:05:34 PM
Post by: darren woolley on March 26, 2021, 08:06:12 PM
Post by: Smithy on March 26, 2021, 08:45:54 PM
Targett and Cash must have outside chances too
Very outside chances, I'd imagine, unfortunately - we're unusually strong in the full-back position at International level, for the first time in a while.
Targett is behind Chilwell, Shaw and Sako (at least), and Cash is behind Trippier, James and Alexander Arnold (plus a few younger players will be in the mix soon if they keep impressing, like Tariq Lamptey and Max Aarons, and a few older heads like Kyle Walker).
They're both class, but both would need to keep improving at a pretty decent rate to unseat the incumbents.
Post by: The Edge on March 26, 2021, 08:52:56 PM
Very good 👏👏Is there any striker in world football who has a 100% shots to goals ratio on the International stage?
No? Just Ollie then...
His only other meaningful touch was to drop a perfect cross onto Bellingham's toe, which the useless bluenose bastard shanked.
He's as much of a Nose as my arsehole, played less games than someone like Lee Novak, scored as many goals as Gabby has at the sty and wasn't even born in Birmingham. Nose my arse.
Are you a dog?
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 26, 2021, 08:57:11 PM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 26, 2021, 08:57:20 PM
Post by: OCD on March 27, 2021, 01:46:14 PM
"Brentford and Exeter to share £1m if Watkins wins England cap
Ollie Watkins will continue his fairytale rise when he joins up with the England squad today, his maiden international call-up recognition for the striker’s eye-catching debut season in the Premier League.
The 25-year-old moved to Aston Villa from Brentford last summer and has scored 12 goals in 31 appearances across all competitions, leading England manager Gareth Southgate to name him in his 26-man squad for the upcoming World Cup qualifiers against San Marino, Albania and Poland.
Villa agreed a deal for Watkins worth £28 million, plus a potential £5 million more in add-ons, and The Athletic understands one of the areas covered by those extra payments is England appearances. Brentford stand to receive £1 million for each cap Watkins wins, up to a small number.
As with the initial transfer fee, 15 per cent of everything Brentford earn from Villa must be diverted to Exeter City, where Watkins started his career before joining the west London club in 2017 for £1.8 million. It means that each time Championship Brentford benefit financially from Watkins playing for England, League Two Exeter will be rewarded with £150,000 for their work in developing him.
Among the other bonuses negotiated by Brentford was related to Villa avoiding relegation from the top flight, they are 10th and already have the “magical” 41 points with 10 games still to play, which will secure them another £850,000 and Exeter an additional £150,000."
Post by: Jon Crofts on March 27, 2021, 01:52:06 PM
The West Country are really proud of Ollie. Reports of him being picked and playing for England have been on the local news and in the papers.did it feature ahead of the big news story of a shed getting broken into in Starcross .......only kidding Steve , I have lots of fond memories of Devon, specifically the pubs and clubs in Torquay :)
That was Topsham, East of Exe is the ghetto.
Post by: RamboandBruno on March 27, 2021, 06:04:29 PM
Post by: LeeB on March 27, 2021, 07:22:23 PM
Post by: JuanMartinez on March 27, 2021, 07:26:56 PM
His ascent from Exeter to International football I’m sure hasn’t gone unnoticed by the squad.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 27, 2021, 08:11:22 PM
Doesn't appear to have been updated for Ollie though the Corinthians stats are current.
Post by: DrGonzo on March 28, 2021, 12:11:52 PM
Post by: robbo1874 on March 29, 2021, 06:59:11 AM
We could have Ollie, Jack, Konsa and Mings in the England squad for the World Cup next year. That would be the first time we've had 4 players in a major tournament squad, wouldn't it?might be wrong, but I thought we had Staunton, god, Houghton and Townsend for Ireland at one point?
Post by: robbo1874 on March 29, 2021, 07:08:01 AM
Post by: Dave on March 29, 2021, 08:18:23 AM
Rare that Villa players score twice on the same day when we aren’t playing.
Rare these days that they score twice on the days that we are playing.
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on March 29, 2021, 10:31:31 AM
Mentioned on the SHA thread. http://www.englandfootballonline.com/TeamClubs/MostPlyrs.html
Doesn't appear to have been updated for Ollie though the Corinthians stats are current.
Is it just me that wants to know who the Birmingham Excelsior England player was?
Post by: UK Redsox on March 29, 2021, 12:14:34 PM
Mentioned on the SHA thread. http://www.englandfootballonline.com/TeamClubs/MostPlyrs.html
Doesn't appear to have been updated for Ollie though the Corinthians stats are current.
Is it just me that wants to know who the Birmingham Excelsior England player was?
Just click on through the link. Name and biography are there
Post by: N'ZMAV on March 29, 2021, 12:23:04 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 29, 2021, 12:40:03 PM
Post by: dave shelley on March 29, 2021, 12:45:49 PM
Died of typhoid aged 23. ☹
That's what happens when you go pissing in the corners trying to lift the curse.
Post by: Drummond on March 29, 2021, 12:51:08 PM
Died of typhoid aged 23. ☹
That's what happens when you go pissing in the corners trying to lift the curse.
That and the foundations decay.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 31, 2021, 10:49:59 PM
Post by: nigel on April 01, 2021, 08:21:01 AM
Exciting news from my sister in Barnt Green. Ollie lives there and buys sausages from the butcher's. More as I have it.
Wonder if he’s Jacks neighbour?
Post by: Drummond on April 01, 2021, 08:27:14 AM
Post by: eamonn on April 01, 2021, 10:07:28 AM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 01, 2021, 10:13:15 AM
Post by: BC Villain on April 04, 2021, 06:39:20 PM
Post by: OCD on April 04, 2021, 07:05:57 PM
Post by: JuanMartinez on April 04, 2021, 07:18:15 PM
Post by: exigo on April 05, 2021, 07:30:56 PM
Post by: DB on April 05, 2021, 08:22:23 PM
Post by: maidstonevillain on April 05, 2021, 09:59:02 PM
Can’t stop scoring.Should count for this season as well.
Post by: Moonraker on April 09, 2021, 01:36:10 PM
Post by: eamonn on April 09, 2021, 02:17:53 PM
Post by: Nii Lamptey on April 10, 2021, 01:22:38 PM
Quote
Klopp on Watkins after 7-2:
"It felt like everyone scored a hat-trick that night! It was a very good moment for Aston Villa in general. They were flying for a while. You need these moments and Ollie is a really talented striker. He's strong, fast. He has a good package."
Steady on Jurgen! :o
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 10, 2021, 11:16:51 PM
Post by: Drummond on April 11, 2021, 01:11:07 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 11, 2021, 09:17:57 AM
Post by: Risso on April 11, 2021, 10:27:49 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 11, 2021, 02:45:56 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 11, 2021, 02:55:54 PM
Post by: eamonn on April 11, 2021, 03:07:48 PM
QuoteKlopp on Watkins after 7-2:
"It felt like everyone scored a hat-trick that night! It was a very good moment for Aston Villa in general. They were flying for a while. You need these moments and Ollie is a really talented striker. He's strong, fast. He has a good package."
Steady on Jurgen! :o
Probably commenting on Ollie's fatherhood. I liked how keen he was to get the ball from the net after he scored so he could do the "baby" celebration.
Would have preferred Nakamba and Trez to have joined in with the 'Bebeto swinging the baby barbershop trio' version, but it was nice all the same.
Post by: darren woolley on April 11, 2021, 04:24:49 PM
By any measure Ollie Watkins has been a massive success. He’s worked his bollocks off too, ran as much as anyone in the PL and looks a very natural goalscorer. And he’s done it all with a smile on his face and a brilliant attitude.
Spot on TV.
Post by: Diablo on April 16, 2021, 01:35:27 AM
Post by: purpletrousers on April 16, 2021, 02:53:35 AM
Post by: Diablo on April 16, 2021, 08:05:58 AM
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 28, 2021, 09:14:23 AM
I think it shows how much a team player and all round attacker he is.
Not only goal scorer but a creator too
Post by: ROBBO on April 28, 2021, 02:02:02 PM
Post by: eamonn on April 28, 2021, 04:26:14 PM
Post by: ROBBO on April 30, 2021, 02:50:56 AM
Post by: N'ZMAV on April 30, 2021, 06:58:09 AM
He must have had some supply to get into double figures. He doesn't get enough but it's not that bad.he'd have another 10 if there wasn't tight var calls added to the amount of times he has hit the woodwork
Post by: LukeJames on May 01, 2021, 10:09:35 PM
My biggest criticism of him would be his hold up play but it was excellent tonight.
Post by: darren woolley on May 01, 2021, 10:10:20 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on May 01, 2021, 10:18:37 PM
Post by: Ian. on May 01, 2021, 10:25:05 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 01, 2021, 10:25:57 PM
Post by: paul_e on May 01, 2021, 10:33:31 PM
Post by: LeeB on May 01, 2021, 10:35:24 PM
Post by: Ian. on May 01, 2021, 10:37:22 PM
When i see him play like he did tonight it just reinforces my opinion that signing a striker and pushing him out wide would be a massive mistake.Me too, he’s a great centre forward. Someone earlier said his hold up play was his weak point, which surprised me as he holds it up so well and nine times out ten plays the ball to one of our own.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 01, 2021, 11:05:23 PM
When i see him play like he did tonight it just reinforces my opinion that signing a striker and pushing him out wide would be a massive mistake.
Oh I agree. In no way should we be shoving Ollie our wide. If we sign a striker it needs to be competition for Ollie.
Post by: SaddVillan on May 01, 2021, 11:06:42 PM
He was brilliant again 13 league goals in his first ever Premier League season good return.
[/quote]
15 in 36 games so far.
5 games to go.
Wonder if he might make it 20 by the end of the season?
Post by: Risso on May 01, 2021, 11:09:41 PM
When i see him play like he did tonight it just reinforces my opinion that signing a striker and pushing him out wide would be a massive mistake.
People are talking about playing him in a front three, not at right back.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on May 02, 2021, 06:47:08 AM
Well done Ollie!
Post by: Nunkin1965 on May 02, 2021, 08:02:53 AM
I think he'd pop up all the way across a front 3.
An absolute handful and a complete nightmare for defenders.
When i see him play like he did tonight it just reinforces my opinion that signing a striker and pushing him out wide would be a massive mistake.
People are talking about playing him in a front three, not at right back.
He'd be all over defenders in a front 3.
I'm not sure it matters where he plays. On the right, on the left, in the middle he'll be an absolute pain in the arse for defences everywhere.
What an amazing first season he's having.
BBC stated that he's one goal off equalling the record for top English Villa scorer in the PL.
Julian Joachim managed 14 so hopefully Ollie will power past that before the season is over.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 02, 2021, 09:07:48 AM
Might need some of that in June.
Post by: London Villan on May 02, 2021, 09:23:47 AM
Post by: manic-road on May 02, 2021, 09:37:54 AM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on May 02, 2021, 09:44:37 AM
Post by: LeeB on May 02, 2021, 09:45:17 AM
Hard work, determination, quality and humility. A brilliant, brilliant signing.
Post by: thick_mike on May 02, 2021, 09:46:39 AM
Imagine that belting out from a packed Holte End!
Post by: Baldy on May 02, 2021, 10:30:44 AM
Southgate must be thinking, tireless running, closing down space, harassing defenders, holding the ball up, running off the ball and he can finish too.
Might need some of that in June.
A 'Jamie Vardy' in the making.
Post by: eamonn on May 03, 2021, 01:52:56 AM
He's a better player than Calvert-Lewin, I know that.
You'll be gutted to know that quizzed to choose one of them on MOTD last night, "Wrighty" and "Muscles" (Micah) chose the Everton chap who has the same speaking voice as Michael Owen, the poor bugger.
Post by: Axl Rose on May 03, 2021, 05:20:59 AM
Ron Saunders would’ve loved him, he’s for me the embodiment of what Aston Villa should be about.
Hard work, determination, quality and humility. A brilliant, brilliant signing.
This.
Post by: Mister E on May 03, 2021, 09:50:40 AM
Playing them together would be pretty impressive. DC-L has improved massively and is a decent front runner.He's a better player than Calvert-Lewin, I know that.You'll be gutted to know that quizzed to choose one of them on MOTD last night, "Wrighty" and "Muscles" (Micah) chose the Everton chap who has the same speaking voice as Michael Owen, the poor bugger.
Post by: Risso on May 03, 2021, 10:17:26 AM
Post by: West Derby Villan on May 03, 2021, 01:12:22 PM
Playing them together would be pretty impressive. DC-L has improved massively and is a decent front runner.He's a better player than Calvert-Lewin, I know that.You'll be gutted to know that quizzed to choose one of them on MOTD last night, "Wrighty" and "Muscles" (Micah) chose the Everton chap who has the same speaking voice as Michael Owen, the poor bugger.
Agree DC-L just shades it, if only one goes
Post by: N'ZMAV on May 03, 2021, 01:16:47 PM
not sure why Lineker asked them both to compared Calvert-Lewin and Watkins. Yeah, ok - they're both forwards, but they're nothing alike. It was poor.He's a better player than Calvert-Lewin, I know that.
You'll be gutted to know that quizzed to choose one of them on MOTD last night, "Wrighty" and "Muscles" (Micah) chose the Everton chap who has the same speaking voice as Michael Owen, the poor bugger.
Post by: OCD on May 03, 2021, 01:34:58 PM
Post by: paul_e on May 03, 2021, 01:43:50 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 03, 2021, 01:50:22 PM
Post by: Smirker on May 03, 2021, 04:05:34 PM
£27.5m looking like a great bit of business 8)
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 09, 2021, 04:16:56 PM
Post by: Exeter 77 on May 09, 2021, 04:18:31 PM
Post by: CT on May 09, 2021, 04:18:59 PM
Unless by some miracle the second yellow is overturned, Ollie now misses the game vs Everton on Thursday. Which is fucking big deal and a major victory for Everton given how he dominated their CB’s the last time out. It’s a massive blow for us.
It’s never getting overturned. He wasn’t wearing the zebra outfit.
Post by: ez on May 09, 2021, 04:19:14 PM
Post by: Ads on May 09, 2021, 04:20:29 PM
Corrupt ******.
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 09, 2021, 04:20:41 PM
Post by: BC Villain on May 09, 2021, 04:21:31 PM
Unless by some miracle the second yellow is overturned, Ollie now misses the game vs Everton on Thursday. Which is fucking big deal and a major victory for Everton given how he dominated their CB’s the last time out. It’s a massive blow for us.
It can't be overturned and neither should it be. It was blatant simulation. He's let the club down badly today
Post by: passport1 on May 09, 2021, 04:23:13 PM
Post by: Ads on May 09, 2021, 04:24:05 PM
Unless by some miracle the second yellow is overturned, Ollie now misses the game vs Everton on Thursday. Which is fucking big deal and a major victory for Everton given how he dominated their CB’s the last time out. It’s a massive blow for us.
It can't be overturned and neither should it be. It was blatant simulation. He's let the club down badly today
Watkins did really well to simulate Henderson kicking him in the knee (https://twitter.com/BLACKIE_IRE/status/1391407297960759296?s=19)
Post by: CT on May 09, 2021, 04:25:12 PM
Unless by some miracle the second yellow is overturned, Ollie now misses the game vs Everton on Thursday. Which is fucking big deal and a major victory for Everton given how he dominated their CB’s the last time out. It’s a massive blow for us.
It can't be overturned and neither should it be. It was blatant simulation. He's let the club down badly today
He didn’t let anyone down. He hasn’t all season.
Post by: Dante Lavelli on May 09, 2021, 04:28:37 PM
Post by: Clampy on May 09, 2021, 04:29:03 PM
Post by: Ads on May 09, 2021, 04:29:35 PM
Post by: BC Villain on May 09, 2021, 04:30:05 PM
Unless by some miracle the second yellow is overturned, Ollie now misses the game vs Everton on Thursday. Which is fucking big deal and a major victory for Everton given how he dominated their CB’s the last time out. It’s a massive blow for us.
It can't be overturned and neither should it be. It was blatant simulation. He's let the club down badly today
Watkins did really well to simulate Henderson kicking him in the knee (https://twitter.com/BLACKIE_IRE/status/1391407297960759296?s=19)
He was going down before Henderson reached him Ads.
Post by: Ads on May 09, 2021, 04:31:20 PM
Post by: CT on May 09, 2021, 04:35:36 PM
So what. Did Pogba need to go down like he was shot for it to be a foul? There's contact, it's a stick on penalty.
I’d never flinch if saw a set of studs heading for my knee....
Again, if that’s not a penalty, then surely there will be a retrospective booking for Harry Kane tonight?
Post by: Smithy on May 09, 2021, 04:37:14 PM
Unless by some miracle the second yellow is overturned, Ollie now misses the game vs Everton on Thursday. Which is fucking big deal and a major victory for Everton given how he dominated their CB’s the last time out. It’s a massive blow for us.
It can't be overturned and neither should it be. It was blatant simulation. He's let the club down badly today
Watkins did really well to simulate Henderson kicking him in the knee (https://twitter.com/BLACKIE_IRE/status/1391407297960759296?s=19)
He was going down before Henderson reached him Ads.
What you mean is, he was jumping out of the way of what he thought was going to be a big contact, the fact that Henderson tried to pull out (but still hit him) is irrelevant. He's still vertical at the point of contact. You think he goes down if he doesn't get hit? He KNOWS Henderson touched him, that's what he went down looking for the penalty. If there was no contact, you'd have a point.
just because someone is looking for the penalty doesn't mean it isn't a penalty. It doesn't matter if the player is jumping out of the way when you hit them, or that you were trying to pull out, it's still a penatly.
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 09, 2021, 04:37:49 PM
Unless by some miracle the second yellow is overturned, Ollie now misses the game vs Everton on Thursday. Which is fucking big deal and a major victory for Everton given how he dominated their CB’s the last time out. It’s a massive blow for us.
It can't be overturned and neither should it be. It was blatant simulation. He's let the club down badly today
With all due respect that is complete bollocks
Post by: Smithy on May 09, 2021, 04:40:41 PM
Unless by some miracle the second yellow is overturned, Ollie now misses the game vs Everton on Thursday. Which is fucking big deal and a major victory for Everton given how he dominated their CB’s the last time out. It’s a massive blow for us.
It can't be overturned and neither should it be. It was blatant simulation. He's let the club down badly today
With all due respect that is complete bollocks
Indeed, either this is the first football match they've ever seen, or they're on a wind-up. "Blatant simulation", jesus. There was contact, Ollie went down - would it have been a soft penalty? Yes. Would I be annoyed if given against us? Yes. Have we seen softer penalties given? Yes.
Post by: Ads on May 09, 2021, 04:47:34 PM
Post by: BC Villain on May 09, 2021, 05:02:41 PM
Unless by some miracle the second yellow is overturned, Ollie now misses the game vs Everton on Thursday. Which is fucking big deal and a major victory for Everton given how he dominated their CB’s the last time out. It’s a massive blow for us.
It can't be overturned and neither should it be. It was blatant simulation. He's let the club down badly today
With all due respect that is complete bollocks
It isn't. It was sheer simulation/cheating. You can't just "look the other way" because he's got a claret and blue shirt on. The fact that Watkins barely contested the decision should tell you the story. He knew what he'd done and got caught out.
Post by: Nunkin1965 on May 09, 2021, 05:04:10 PM
If that incident happens at the other end of the pitch its a pen.
Sky and VAR would have been all over it like a rash.
It's just how it is.
Post by: CT on May 09, 2021, 05:05:56 PM
I’m staggered, I truly am.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 09, 2021, 05:07:55 PM
Edit: sorry,was replying to BC Villan.
Post by: villadelph on May 09, 2021, 05:11:50 PM
Unless by some miracle the second yellow is overturned, Ollie now misses the game vs Everton on Thursday. Which is fucking big deal and a major victory for Everton given how he dominated their CB’s the last time out. It’s a massive blow for us.
It can't be overturned and neither should it be. It was blatant simulation. He's let the club down badly today
With all due respect that is complete bollocks
It isn't. It was sheer simulation/cheating. You can't just "look the other way" because he's got a claret and blue shirt on. The fact that Watkins barely contested the decision should tell you the story. He knew what he'd done and got caught out.
BC you are completely out of order today. Go take a nap.
If Ollie plants his foot and Henderson goes through him at that height then we've got a Pickford/VVD situation on our hands and we're without our only performing striker for who knows how long.
Fact is, there was contact and Cristiano Ronaldo himself set the precedent in this league that contact isn't necessary to impede a players forward progress. That was a knee high challenge by a goalkeeper who has no idea how to properly defend. Again, there was obviously contact and different strikers on different clubs get that call 10 out of 10 times.
You're a disgrace for slagging off the hardest working player we've had in a decade.
Post by: Nunkin1965 on May 09, 2021, 05:14:31 PM
Bonkers post alert.
Post by: ez on May 09, 2021, 05:31:30 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 09, 2021, 05:32:00 PM
Just seen it, Henderson is not in control his foot is up and Watkins is traveling at speed and has every right to avoid contact.
The contact is slight but that is irrelevant, there is no way is it a booking for Ollie and should be a foul based on the height of Henderson’s foot.
The hand ball based on current interpretation is a penalty.
Luiz on Pogba is a penalty.
Post by: villadelph on May 09, 2021, 05:47:25 PM
Has any one got a link to the incident?
Just seen it, Henderson is not in control his foot is up and Watkins is traveling at speed and has every right to avoid contact.
The contact is slight but that is irrelevant, there is no way is it a booking for Ollie and should be a foul based on the height of Henderson’s foot.
The hand ball based on current interpretation is a penalty.
Luiz on Pogba is a penalty.
It was reckless, knee high challenge. I said it before and I'll say it again.. Ollie had a decision to make, rupture a knee ligament or jump out of the way. It's a no-brainer for me.
Unfortunately, by nature it is not in Ollie to get up raging mad and have a go at the referee for a ludicrous decision. Bruno Penandes, Harry Maguire and Cavani would've been inches from the referees face if it were the other way around and VAR would've given it more than 5 seconds.
Post by: N'ZMAV on May 09, 2021, 05:47:57 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 09, 2021, 06:15:50 PM
On sending off incident
For the record I thought penalty the minute he had the ball and went past. Certainly I don't think he should have been cautioned and maybe if Douglas haven't given one away Vila would have had one today
Instead Watkins suffers as does our team denied a goal scoring chance.
Probably should have been subbed anyway as his yellow would be an issue and gives him chance to recover and rest but unfair for him today as he pressed well and was fouled for a pen
Just think he should never have done that foul for his 1st yellow . Totally pointless.
But the man's no disgrace. Very unlucky in many respects
Post by: paul_e on May 09, 2021, 06:48:39 PM
I think the issue being had Watkins not been so reckless going after Maguire he would never had a caution to his name that was the issue . That bit of ill discipline on an England colleague. Ollie having had little of ball and wanted to show his worth made a stupid foul. Not hus usual move but I think Southgate being there he wanted to show agai. What he did like robbing holgate other week.
On sending off incident
For the record I thought penalty the minute he had the ball and went past. Certainly I don't think he should have been cautioned and maybe if Douglas haven't given one away Vila would have had one today
Instead Watkins suffers as does our team denied a goal scoring chance.
Probably should have been subbed anyway as his yellow would be an issue and gives him chance to recover and rest but unfair for him today as he pressed well and was fouled for a pen
Just think he should never have done that foul for his 1st yellow . Totally pointless.
But the man's no disgrace. Very unlucky in many respects
I disagree with you on the first yellow, I don't think it was ill-discipline or reckless, I think he was trying to to stop a clearance and made some contact but not enough for slabhead to go down like he did. Compare it (in terms of the contact between the players) to the 2nd Watkins yellow and see how different the 2 really are, to give one as a yellow and book the other for a dive means either the ref is a fucking cheat or, as seems to happen far too often, the amount of screaming made up the refs mind. Man U have been doing this for years, almost everyone who plays for them goes down with a scream of agony under every challenge and the weak-minded officials encourage it by regularly just giving them the foul without a thought.
Post by: Rigadon on May 09, 2021, 06:50:29 PM
Post by: LeeB on May 09, 2021, 06:52:15 PM
Unless by some miracle the second yellow is overturned, Ollie now misses the game vs Everton on Thursday. Which is fucking big deal and a major victory for Everton given how he dominated their CB’s the last time out. It’s a massive blow for us.
It can't be overturned and neither should it be. It was blatant simulation. He's let the club down badly today
That's the spirit, get behind your team.
FFS.
Post by: KevinGage on May 09, 2021, 06:55:27 PM
Unless by some miracle the second yellow is overturned, Ollie now misses the game vs Everton on Thursday. Which is fucking big deal and a major victory for Everton given how he dominated their CB’s the last time out. It’s a massive blow for us.
It can't be overturned and neither should it be. It was blatant simulation. He's let the club down badly today
With all due respect that is complete bollocks
It isn't. It was sheer simulation/cheating. You can't just "look the other way" because he's got a claret and blue shirt on. The fact that Watkins barely contested the decision should tell you the story. He knew what he'd done and got caught out.
BC you are completely out of order today. Go take a nap.
If Ollie plants his foot and Henderson goes through him at that height then we've got a Pickford/VVD situation on our hands and we're without our only performing striker for who knows how long.
Fact is, there was contact and Cristiano Ronaldo himself set the precedent in this league that contact isn't necessary to impede a players forward progress. That was a knee high challenge by a goalkeeper who has no idea how to properly defend. Again, there was obviously contact and different strikers on different clubs get that call 10 out of 10 times.
You're a disgrace for slagging off the hardest working player we've had in a decade.
Totally agree.
Post by: LukeJames on May 09, 2021, 06:58:17 PM
If it was them they'd have proper kicked off, it would've forced VAR to look at it.
Post by: Clampy on May 09, 2021, 06:58:58 PM
Unless by some miracle the second yellow is overturned, Ollie now misses the game vs Everton on Thursday. Which is fucking big deal and a major victory for Everton given how he dominated their CB’s the last time out. It’s a massive blow for us.
It can't be overturned and neither should it be. It was blatant simulation. He's let the club down badly today
Let the team down? We were 3-1 down at the time anyway.
Post by: Mister E on May 09, 2021, 07:02:47 PM
I think the issue being had Watkins not been so reckless going after Maguire ... Very unlucky in many respectsLast week, he harried a defender and got a goal from it.
I don't think the challenge today was reckless.
But the key issue was the second card. Watkins did what all attackers have been doing all season: avoiding a lungeing goalkeeper. There was no penalty appeal from him; he was just in self-preservation mode.
Post by: paul_e on May 09, 2021, 07:02:50 PM
Probably the worst decision of the season to book him for the "dive". He took it too easily though, so did the rest of the team.
If it was them they'd have proper kicked off, it would've forced VAR to look at it.
I agree, I rather have seen him get an extra game or 2 on his ban by calling the ref a fucking cheat than for him to walk away looking angry.
Post by: KevinGage on May 09, 2021, 07:11:55 PM
He should have been shocked. But when you see the ref letting them away with persistent niggling fouls all game and not even double checking a blatant handball, you can't say it's totally unexpected.
I hope Kavanagh gets a warm Villa Park welcome next season. Absolute shithouse.
Post by: Nev on May 09, 2021, 07:48:23 PM
Post by: BC Villain on May 09, 2021, 08:12:48 PM
Unless by some miracle the second yellow is overturned, Ollie now misses the game vs Everton on Thursday. Which is fucking big deal and a major victory for Everton given how he dominated their CB’s the last time out. It’s a massive blow for us.
It can't be overturned and neither should it be. It was blatant simulation. He's let the club down badly today
With all due respect that is complete bollocks
It isn't. It was sheer simulation/cheating. You can't just "look the other way" because he's got a claret and blue shirt on. The fact that Watkins barely contested the decision should tell you the story. He knew what he'd done and got caught out.
BC you are completely out of order today. Go take a nap.
If Ollie plants his foot and Henderson goes through him at that height then we've got a Pickford/VVD situation on our hands and we're without our only performing striker for who knows how long.
Fact is, there was contact and Cristiano Ronaldo himself set the precedent in this league that contact isn't necessary to impede a players forward progress. That was a knee high challenge by a goalkeeper who has no idea how to properly defend. Again, there was obviously contact and different strikers on different clubs get that call 10 out of 10 times.
You're a disgrace for slagging off the hardest working player we've had in a decade.
Look at the video again. He is going down before Henderson gets to him, and Watkins did not challenge the decision. We're now left with our main striker missing for Thursday for a winnable game.
I'll happily defend our players till the cows come home, but I'm not defending the indefensible, regardless of how much of a shift they put in (which by the way should be a given like in any walk of life).
I called Jack out for the dive at West Ham and against Palace last season. It saddens me that its become part of the game and I don't like it.
Post by: LukeJames on May 09, 2021, 08:20:30 PM
Unless by some miracle the second yellow is overturned, Ollie now misses the game vs Everton on Thursday. Which is fucking big deal and a major victory for Everton given how he dominated their CB’s the last time out. It’s a massive blow for us.
It can't be overturned and neither should it be. It was blatant simulation. He's let the club down badly today
With all due respect that is complete bollocks
It isn't. It was sheer simulation/cheating. You can't just "look the other way" because he's got a claret and blue shirt on. The fact that Watkins barely contested the decision should tell you the story. He knew what he'd done and got caught out.
BC you are completely out of order today. Go take a nap.
If Ollie plants his foot and Henderson goes through him at that height then we've got a Pickford/VVD situation on our hands and we're without our only performing striker for who knows how long.
Fact is, there was contact and Cristiano Ronaldo himself set the precedent in this league that contact isn't necessary to impede a players forward progress. That was a knee high challenge by a goalkeeper who has no idea how to properly defend. Again, there was obviously contact and different strikers on different clubs get that call 10 out of 10 times.
You're a disgrace for slagging off the hardest working player we've had in a decade.
Look at the video again. He is going down before Henderson gets to him, and Watkins did not challenge the decision. We're now left with our main striker missing for Thursday for a winnable game.
I'll happily defend our players till the cows come home, but I'm not defending the indefensible, regardless of how much of a shift they put in (which by the way should be a given like in any walk of life).
I called Jack out for the dive at West Ham and against Palace last season.
I was about to start calling you out for chatting utter shit about the Ollie decision today but then you openly admit to calling Grealish out for the Palace decision. Fucking hell.
Post by: Ads on May 09, 2021, 08:25:16 PM
Fuck me, some shit being chatted.
Post by: paul_e on May 09, 2021, 08:29:27 PM
Look at the video again. He is going down before Henderson gets to him, and Watkins did not challenge the decision. We're now left with our main striker missing for Thursday for a winnable game.
I'll happily defend our players till the cows come home, but I'm not defending the indefensible, regardless of how much of a shift they put in (which by the way should be a given like in any walk of life).
I called Jack out for the dive at West Ham and against Palace last season. It saddens me that its become part of the game and I don't like it.
No one is saying he wasn't already going down, Smith specifically mentioned it in his interviews by saying "does he need to get injured to get a penalty?". Watkins was going down because he tried to avoid being clattered by a knee high boot.
Only someone who has never played competitive sport would struggle to see that what Watkins did was evasive action rather than simulation.
It's also interesting that you don't seem bothered by Pogba going down very easily for their penalty where there was probably less contact.
Post by: BC Villain on May 09, 2021, 08:31:05 PM
Unless by some miracle the second yellow is overturned, Ollie now misses the game vs Everton on Thursday. Which is fucking big deal and a major victory for Everton given how he dominated their CB’s the last time out. It’s a massive blow for us.
It can't be overturned and neither should it be. It was blatant simulation. He's let the club down badly today
With all due respect that is complete bollocks
It isn't. It was sheer simulation/cheating. You can't just "look the other way" because he's got a claret and blue shirt on. The fact that Watkins barely contested the decision should tell you the story. He knew what he'd done and got caught out.
BC you are completely out of order today. Go take a nap.
If Ollie plants his foot and Henderson goes through him at that height then we've got a Pickford/VVD situation on our hands and we're without our only performing striker for who knows how long.
Fact is, there was contact and Cristiano Ronaldo himself set the precedent in this league that contact isn't necessary to impede a players forward progress. That was a knee high challenge by a goalkeeper who has no idea how to properly defend. Again, there was obviously contact and different strikers on different clubs get that call 10 out of 10 times.
You're a disgrace for slagging off the hardest working player we've had in a decade.
Look at the video again. He is going down before Henderson gets to him, and Watkins did not challenge the decision. We're now left with our main striker missing for Thursday for a winnable game.
I'll happily defend our players till the cows come home, but I'm not defending the indefensible, regardless of how much of a shift they put in (which by the way should be a given like in any walk of life).
I called Jack out for the dive at West Ham and against Palace last season.
I was about to start calling you out for chatting utter shit about the Ollie decision today but then you openly admit to calling Grealish out for the Palace decision. Fucking hell.
Just to get it straight, I meant in the home game. The one down there was a shite decision
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 09, 2021, 08:37:16 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on May 09, 2021, 08:41:52 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 09, 2021, 08:42:17 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on May 09, 2021, 09:45:45 PM
Post by: Smithy on May 09, 2021, 11:49:54 PM
Post by: LukeJames on May 09, 2021, 11:53:53 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 10, 2021, 12:10:06 AM
Post by: NorthYvillan on May 10, 2021, 11:52:03 AM
There is no doubt a major problem at the moment with players going to ground at the slightest contact, or indeed no contact at all, in attempts to deceive the officials into incorrectly awarding a penalty and that far too many of them get away with it – either by being awarded a penalty kick or just being signalled to get up/or be totally ignored by the referee. There is a fairly easily assembled list of players who are the major culprits and it includes several “big six” (I use the phrase advisedly) and international players. Harry Kane would certainly feature in the top 3 or 4.
However, what really pissed me off about yesterday, is that Ollie Watkins is one of the least likely forwards in the Premier League to “take a dive” so why was it suitable to “show the cheats that they can’t get away with it” by punishing him. You only have to look at the times he has stayed on his feet when being seriously fouled with:
1. West Ham away - being virtually strangled but staying on his feet to score (only for his arm – stretched out as part of his struggle to free himself – to be ruled by VAR to be offside)
2. Everton away last week, when the centre-half tried to scythe him down from behind as he robbed him and stayed on his feet to score. Had he be of the diving kind, he could have gone to ground and the centre-half would most likely have been sent off for preventing a goal scoring opportunity
being 2 that immediately come to mind.
My second point is that I don’t actually think you can be certain that he dived anyway.
Jenas himself said that “Watkins clearly thought he was going to be clattered” so he went down only to find the keeper had backed out – so it was a dive. I disagree completely. Although the keeper backed out Ollie wasn’t to know he would. As Virgil van Dijk or Wesley will testify, being clattered from the side when your weight is on one of your legs can lead to a major knee injury and a long time on the side-lines. So Ollie took his feet off the ground to avoid potential serious injury and CONTACT WAS MADE albeit without the momentum that initially looked likely.
There is a big problem with players cheating by going to ground too easily. But picking this Ollie Watkins incident as the time to start making a stand was wrong player and the wrong incident. At least we can hope that this is indeed a sign that the officials are going to start booking the cheats rather than ignoring them or, worse, being conned by them.
Post by: Axl Rose on May 10, 2021, 12:13:52 PM
Post by: LeeB on May 10, 2021, 12:15:19 PM
Jenas is an absolute turd. Red card my arse.
The baby-faced assclown.
Post by: LukeJames on May 10, 2021, 12:19:19 PM
And here he is defending Dele Ali for diving, the bloke is a gigantic throbbing bellend.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on May 10, 2021, 12:33:03 PM
He needs to stick to the One Show and even then I think he's out of his depth.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 10, 2021, 12:39:42 PM
Jenas as a football analyst is a joke.Complete tosser
He needs to stick to the One Show and even then I think he's out of his depth.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 10, 2021, 03:16:40 PM
Post by: Bobby Boy on May 10, 2021, 04:05:03 PM
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/744631/Jermaine-Jenas-diving-football-tactic
And here he is defending Dele Ali for diving, the bloke is a gigantic throbbing bellend.
You'll have to wait until hell freezes over before Jenas calls Harry Kane out for diving. 'Being clever' is what that's called apparently.
Post by: CT on May 10, 2021, 04:09:54 PM
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/744631/Jermaine-Jenas-diving-football-tactic
And here he is defending Dele Ali for diving, the bloke is a gigantic throbbing bellend.
You'll have to wait until hell freezes over before Jenas calls Harry Kane out for diving. 'Being clever' is what that's called apparently.
Maybe Ollie should take a leaf out of Harry Kane’s book. Or most other players books come to think of it.
Go down like you’ve been shot and wait till you get the decision before making a miraculous recovery. Give it the Fernandes scream for added effect. Would the ref have sent him off if it looked like he’d got a serious knee injury?
Trouble is, that’s not Ollie, or his personality.
Post by: dcdavecollett on May 13, 2021, 11:54:19 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 20, 2021, 01:26:46 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on May 20, 2021, 01:30:56 PM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on May 20, 2021, 01:32:51 PM
Post by: Goldenballs on May 20, 2021, 01:33:45 PM
Post by: LeeB on May 20, 2021, 02:26:18 PM
In terms of Kane, anybody see the challenge where he grabbed Mings arm then threw himself to the ground to make it look like Mings had hauled him down to try to get him a card? I thought it was right out of and should have been called out.
Yep, I mentioned it on the match thread. He was miles away from the ball so engineered a free kick, the mouth breathing bellend
Post by: sickbeggar on May 20, 2021, 02:33:37 PM
Post by: caster troy on May 20, 2021, 02:40:15 PM
Post by: Smithy on May 20, 2021, 05:12:56 PM
If it wasn't for the VAR lines of doom, and losing Jack for so long I reckon he'd have easily got 20 goals. With some improvements around him next season the sky is the limit.
That's actually a really good point. Any other season he's getting pretty close to 20. Which for a forward who doesn't take penalties is ridiculously good (not that we get many!). The only players above him in the scoring charts who aren't their teams designated penalty taker is Son and Calvert-Lewin.
Post by: N'ZMAV on May 20, 2021, 05:23:51 PM
he'd have got 25 easily.
Post by: Dave on May 20, 2021, 06:58:13 PM
If it wasn't for the VAR lines of doom, and losing Jack for so long I reckon he'd have easily got 20 goals. With some improvements around him next season the sky is the limit.
That's actually a really good point. Any other season he's getting pretty close to 20. Which for a forward who doesn't take penalties is ridiculously good (not that we get many!). The only players above him in the scoring charts who aren't their teams designated penalty taker is Son and Calvert-Lewin.
Although to throw a teeny bit of shade on it, he might well have been our designated penalty taker and scored those extra goals had he not ballsed up the opportunity he had to become so.
Post by: algy on May 20, 2021, 08:34:53 PM
also imagine if he had Grealish playing all season, Barkley on some decent form consistently and decent wide players?Imagine if the woodwork had been kinder ... that'd have taken him to 21 on its own.
he'd have got 25 easily.
Love Ollie Watkins. Wouldn't swap him for any other striker in the league.
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 20, 2021, 08:46:06 PM
He's key to our progress and the drop down to the next strike is vast. Watkins outstanding season only getting better.also imagine if he had Grealish playing all season, Barkley on some decent form consistently and decent wide players?Imagine if the woodwork had been kinder ... that'd have taken him to 21 on its own.
he'd have got 25 easily.
Love Ollie Watkins. Wouldn't swap him for any other striker in the league.
Added that it's imperative to sign another striker of quality such as Abraham. Because outside of Watkins -Davis and Wes can't be relied upon for plethora for goals
Post by: eamonn on May 21, 2021, 01:39:30 PM
And his punditry is too...jovial for me (at least he doesn't laugh as manically as Micah, I guess).
Post by: Smithy on May 21, 2021, 09:48:41 PM
I for one certainly wouldn't. I'd have to back and look, but given the season we'd just come off, double-figures in all comps would have been a good result.
He's been brilliant, way better than I thought he'd be and could go on to be a big star in the premier league for another 6 or 7 years.
Post by: Ian. on May 24, 2021, 09:48:14 PM
https://twitter.com/nigel_spink/status/1396862161897537542?s=21
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on May 29, 2021, 07:44:21 AM
Should Tottenham cash in on the wantaway 27-year-old, they will pull out all the stops to land a quality replacement, and while Villa would not be to let Watkins go, a juicy bid could force them to sell, especially if he tells them he is keen on such move.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on May 29, 2021, 09:03:48 AM
It's nearly as laughable as small heath deciding to hatch a plan to acquire him. Spurs are a joke club. I suppose if they've still got Onomah (or equivalent) they'll throw him in as part of the deal.
I see the biased media are still doing the work of the scab 6 in the speculation they keep regurgitating.
Son to the Villa for £20m and we'll throw in Kalanic maybe the real story!
Post by: Monty on May 29, 2021, 11:23:40 AM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 29, 2021, 12:59:23 PM
Post by: supertom on May 29, 2021, 08:02:36 PM
Arsenal and Spurs, the state they're in are there for the taking. We look like we have our shit together, and there are solid foundations to build on, a good stream of young talent coming through and a balance to the squad. Spurs trade off a reputation they've rarely lived up to, outside of some years of glamour (and winning things many moons ago) but they're distant memories. We're among 3-4 clubs who should be taking the sword to them next season, a lot of which will rest on our respective summer windows.
Spurs taking Watkins like stealing candy from a baby though? Jog on. Our players seem keen to be part of this project, the owners seem to have a good ethos, and we've absolutely no financial need to cash in. I certainly don't see Watkins giving up an all but guaranteed starting spot, in a front line where he's the fulcrum, to be a rotation player at a 'bigger' club.
Post by: KevinGage on May 29, 2021, 08:09:19 PM
Post by: Ads on May 29, 2021, 08:13:36 PM
Post by: LeeB on May 29, 2021, 08:16:50 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 29, 2021, 08:26:17 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on May 29, 2021, 08:36:00 PM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on May 29, 2021, 08:46:02 PM
Devil's advocate, but if what if we banked north of £60 million for Ollie and brought Tammy Abraham back for £40 million or under?
Devil’s advocate as well, but Tammy. I think he’s a better player. Sooner have both though.
Post by: KevinGage on May 29, 2021, 09:06:33 PM
You want to bid for our better players?
Fine. But it will hurt.
All that said, I don't see him at Tottingham. For one thing, Levy will probably offer Eric Dier, Joe Hart and a pack of Murray mints from the back of the sofa.
Smart businessman? Bollocks. It ain't smart business when you consistently can't complete the deals you want to do.
Post by: LukeJames on May 29, 2021, 09:08:13 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 29, 2021, 09:09:38 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on May 29, 2021, 09:12:48 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 29, 2021, 09:41:20 PM
Post by: aldridgeboy on May 29, 2021, 09:49:11 PM
How about we keep Watkins, sign Tammy and Spurs continue to be fuck all but noise on the breeze.I like this version
Post by: LeeB on May 29, 2021, 10:03:53 PM
Post by: Drummond on May 29, 2021, 11:21:11 PM
Plus all he'll do is improve.
Post by: LukeJames on May 29, 2021, 11:23:40 PM
Post by: danno on May 30, 2021, 12:14:51 AM
I always thought Dwight Yorke found it easier asking Gregory to leave, than he would have asking Little, the manager who made him his main centre forward.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 30, 2021, 10:09:26 PM
Watkins is phenomenal, I wouldn't swap him for anyone. He's the attacking version of Kante.
Yes precisely. His work rate is remarkable.
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on May 31, 2021, 11:45:23 AM
How about we keep Watkins, sign Tammy and Spurs continue to be fuck all but noise on the breeze.
Spot on
Post by: andyh on June 01, 2021, 10:36:00 AM
It’s a real shame if so.
I think it’s a bit of a bastard for players to be called into a provisional squad, join the training camp on Saturday and then be bombed out on Tuesday.
Post by: chrisw1 on June 01, 2021, 10:44:01 AM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on June 01, 2021, 10:46:38 AM
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on June 01, 2021, 10:48:24 AM
With 7 to be dropped, he still might not make it. Depending on the balance of the squad picked by an overly cautious Head Coach who keeps 'faith' with his favourites whatever their form and fitness (Henderson, Sterling, Lingard etc.)
Post by: Dave on June 01, 2021, 10:50:37 AM
His chances of staying in the England have just improved with the withdrawal of Greenwood - either a genuine injury or a handy face-saving exercise for all concerned.
With 7 to be dropped, he still might not make it. Depending on the balance of the squad picked by an overly cautious Head Coach who keeps 'faith' with his favourites whatever their form and fitness (Henderson, Sterling, Lingard etc.)
Isn't "form and fitness" an argument FOR Lingard rather than against him?
Post by: brontebilly on June 01, 2021, 11:00:05 AM
Ollie not going to make the cut for the final squad according to reports?
It’s a real shame if so.
I think it’s a bit of a bastard for players to be called into a provisional squad, join the training camp on Saturday and then be bombed out on Tuesday.
Agreed, bit of a nonsense fudge from Southgate particularly with squads of 26 allowed this time. Greenwood is out but DCL is surely ahead of Watkins as Kane's backup.
It's a particularly strong English squad this time around. Lots of very good players won't even make the 26. The spine of the first eleven is still the worry. Pickford is rash at best. Stones has a mistake in him and was hopeless in the ECL final I thought. Maguire can't be fully fit. No way is Henderson fit enough and replacements like Phillips/JWP are fairly average. Going to struggle to retain possession against the better teams I think. Guess that's where our man comes into his own but he didn't look fully fit either in those final league games.
Portugal look a good bet for me at 10/1. Must be the weakest Spain and Germany squads in a generation. France certainly the favourites but that Benzema decision seems a strange one at this late stage.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on June 01, 2021, 11:00:55 AM
His chances of staying in the England have just improved with the withdrawal of Greenwood - either a genuine injury or a handy face-saving exercise for all concerned.
With 7 to be dropped, he still might not make it. Depending on the balance of the squad picked by an overly cautious Head Coach who keeps 'faith' with his favourites whatever their form and fitness (Henderson, Sterling, Lingard etc.)
Isn't "form and fitness" an argument FOR Lingard rather than against him?
If form was a consideration Sterling and Rashford wouldn't make the cut.
Post by: Monty on June 01, 2021, 11:03:03 AM
Post by: London Villan on June 01, 2021, 11:05:18 AM
Post by: Dave on June 01, 2021, 11:06:37 AM
His chances of staying in the England have just improved with the withdrawal of Greenwood - either a genuine injury or a handy face-saving exercise for all concerned.
With 7 to be dropped, he still might not make it. Depending on the balance of the squad picked by an overly cautious Head Coach who keeps 'faith' with his favourites whatever their form and fitness (Henderson, Sterling, Lingard etc.)
Isn't "form and fitness" an argument FOR Lingard rather than against him?
If form was a consideration Sterling and Rashford wouldn't make the cut.
It's obviously a consideration. It's just that it's not the only one.
And rightly so, if it were on form alone then Lingard would probably be going in Grealish's place.
Post by: SheffieldVillain on June 01, 2021, 11:07:00 AM
Post by: Monty on June 01, 2021, 11:08:40 AM
His chances of staying in the England have just improved with the withdrawal of Greenwood - either a genuine injury or a handy face-saving exercise for all concerned.
With 7 to be dropped, he still might not make it. Depending on the balance of the squad picked by an overly cautious Head Coach who keeps 'faith' with his favourites whatever their form and fitness (Henderson, Sterling, Lingard etc.)
Isn't "form and fitness" an argument FOR Lingard rather than against him?
If form was a consideration Sterling and Rashford wouldn't make the cut.
It's obviously a consideration. It's just that it's not the only one.
And rightly so, if it were on form alone then Lingard would probably be going in Grealish's place.
More like Sterling's. Jack's played about 10 minutes this year and has still contributed more than Sterling.
Post by: Dave on June 01, 2021, 11:13:41 AM
His chances of staying in the England have just improved with the withdrawal of Greenwood - either a genuine injury or a handy face-saving exercise for all concerned.
With 7 to be dropped, he still might not make it. Depending on the balance of the squad picked by an overly cautious Head Coach who keeps 'faith' with his favourites whatever their form and fitness (Henderson, Sterling, Lingard etc.)
Isn't "form and fitness" an argument FOR Lingard rather than against him?
If form was a consideration Sterling and Rashford wouldn't make the cut.
It's obviously a consideration. It's just that it's not the only one.
And rightly so, if it were on form alone then Lingard would probably be going in Grealish's place.
More like Sterling's. Jack's played about 10 minutes this year and has still contributed more than Sterling.
Jack Harrison's already replaced Sterling in this hypothetical "pick the players who did well in the last half-dozen matches" squad.
Post by: Monty on June 01, 2021, 11:20:24 AM
Post by: Dave on June 01, 2021, 11:24:08 AM
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on June 01, 2021, 11:24:53 AM
By comparison, AEG with 10 goals and Traore, 7 goals and 6 assists, have comparable stats but nowhere near the same hype.
A heady mix of playing for the kit-stealers (the team lots of football writers follow) and being a Man U player, means Lingard was always going to be tipped to be in final squad. He's not worth a place IMO.
Post by: Monty on June 01, 2021, 11:32:52 AM
Joe Willock is in his spot.
Too far, that run is obviously a fluke.
Post by: Dave on June 01, 2021, 11:38:29 AM
Lingard has had his best season in years, but then he has been poor for years. With 9 goals and 4 assists in a team that finished 6th he gets rave reviews.
By comparison, AEG with 10 goals and Traore, 7 goals and 6 assists, have comparable stats but nowhere near the same hype.
A heady mix of playing for the kit-stealers (the team lots of football writers follow) and being a Man U player, means Lingard was always going to be tipped to be in final squad. He's not worth a place IMO.
I wouldn't take him either. But you can't really make the argument that you should only pick players on form and then argue that Lingard shouldn't be included because it's only his current form that is good.
Post by: chrisw1 on June 01, 2021, 11:39:26 AM
Lingard has had his best season in years, but then he has been poor for years. With 9 goals and 4 assists in a team that finished 6th he gets rave reviews.For a purple patch of 10 games or so Lingard was playing brilliantly and dominating games. He deserved the credit he was getting. He tailed off towards the end of the season though.
By comparison, AEG with 10 goals and Traore, 7 goals and 6 assists, have comparable stats but nowhere near the same hype.
A heady mix of playing for the kit-stealers (the team lots of football writers follow) and being a Man U player, means Lingard was always going to be tipped to be in final squad. He's not worth a place IMO.
Post by: manic-road on June 01, 2021, 05:08:31 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on June 01, 2021, 05:14:10 PM
Post by: jwarry on June 01, 2021, 05:17:26 PM
Ollie not needed but they find places for Saka and 4 right backs.
Utterly bizarre. Smacks of Gareth’s mates
Post by: eamonn on June 01, 2021, 05:25:47 PM
Ollie was always a long-shot. How much training did he do with England in the end - a day or two?
I actually think the Southampton pair, Ward-Prowse and Ings (not even in the 33) are the unluckiest to miss out. They both have something different about them.
Post by: sid1964 on June 01, 2021, 05:30:36 PM
Post by: robleflaneur on June 01, 2021, 05:33:32 PM
He says he sees them as four very good footballers rather than RBs and some can play elsewhere.Totally agree about Ings and Ward-Prowse.Ings is our best finisher after Kane.Ward-Prowse is the best passer of the holding mids and great delivery from set pieces is a very useful asset.
Ollie was always a long-shot. How much training did he do with England in the end - a day or two?
I actually think the Southampton pair, Ward-Prowse and Ings (not even in the 33) are the unluckiest to miss out. They both have something different about them.
4 RBs and 4 holding mids suggests that Southgate is unsure about his formation.I would opt for the media darling TAA as a midfielder.He ,like Kyle Walker,shouldn't be anywhere near a starting place as a RB.
Post by: Villa Lew on June 01, 2021, 05:34:52 PM
Ollie can put his feet up for the summer now and recharge ready for next season, it will certainly help Villa.
That's my feelings, but obviously feel for the bloke.
Post by: chrisw1 on June 01, 2021, 05:36:19 PM
He says he sees them as four very good footballers rather than RBs and some can play elsewhere.This is great news, so if Kane gets injured any of these 4 can be back up to DCL right?
Ollie was always a long-shot. How much training did he do with England in the end - a day or two?
I actually think the Southampton pair, Ward-Prowse and Ings (not even in the 33) are the unluckiest to miss out. They both have something different about them.
I guess it probably points to 3 at the back with Walker on the right of the 3?
Post by: jwarry on June 01, 2021, 05:36:24 PM
He says he sees them as four very good footballers rather than RBs and some can play elsewhere.Totally agree about Ings and Ward-Prowse.Ings is our best finisher after Kane.Ward-Prowse is the best passer of the holding mids and great delivery from set pieces is a very useful asset.
Ollie was always a long-shot. How much training did he do with England in the end - a day or two?
I actually think the Southampton pair, Ward-Prowse and Ings (not even in the 33) are the unluckiest to miss out. They both have something different about them.
4 RBs and 4 holding mids suggests that Southgate is unsure about his formation.I would opt for the media darling TAA as a midfielder.He ,like Kyle Walker,shouldn't be anywhere near a starting place as a RB.
Agreed, on current form James is the best RB
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 01, 2021, 05:38:22 PM
He says he sees them as four very good footballers rather than RBs and some can play elsewhere.Totally agree about Ings and Ward-Prowse.Ings is our best finisher after Kane.Ward-Prowse is the best passer of the holding mids and great delivery from set pieces is a very useful asset.
Ollie was always a long-shot. How much training did he do with England in the end - a day or two?
I actually think the Southampton pair, Ward-Prowse and Ings (not even in the 33) are the unluckiest to miss out. They both have something different about them.
4 RBs and 4 holding mids suggests that Southgate is unsure about his formation.I would opt for the media darling TAA as a midfielder.He ,like Kyle Walker,shouldn't be anywhere near a starting place as a RB.
I don't think he is. Back 7, Mount, Kane, +1.
Post by: Olof's Beard on June 01, 2021, 05:41:07 PM
We should protect our own but it's understandable and Ollie wouldn't have played anyway. Hopefully this just motivates him even more for next season and it's only a year until the next major international tournament.
It's midfield where we look a bit light overall, the four right backs makes no sense in the context of Ward Prowse AND Lingard being jettisoned. If Henderson and Phillips were to break down, we'd be very low on numbers there.
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 01, 2021, 05:55:56 PM
Post by: Flamingo Lane on June 01, 2021, 05:56:39 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 01, 2021, 06:02:27 PM
Other than SJM I don’t think any player ran as much this season. The break will absolutely do him good and he will come back raring to go for the WC qualifiers. It’s not altogether bad he missed out.
Good point here. His work-rate is incredible to the rest could help.
Post by: algy on June 01, 2021, 06:05:30 PM
I'm disappointed for Watkins, but he should be proud of the season he's just had, and boy will the rest do him good for next season, when his case for inclusion in the England squad will inevitably be all the stronger for having not taken part in this particular tournament.Yeah, he's every reason to be proud of having already got to the fringes of the England squad in his first PL season. Must be a bit disappointing for him, but he's put himself in an excellent place for next season.
Post by: SaddVillan on June 01, 2021, 06:06:56 PM
"Those three (Lingard, Ward-Prowse and Watkins), I gave them the option of going home, but they were all adamant they wanted to stay and be a part of the group. I think Jesse will probably start tomorrow."
WTF?
Can anybody explain?
Post by: richtheholtender on June 01, 2021, 06:10:33 PM
Quote from Southgate:
"Those three (Lingard, Ward-Prowse and Watkins), I gave them the option of going home, but they were all adamant they wanted to stay and be a part of the group. I think Jesse will probably start tomorrow."
WTF?
Can anybody explain?
Nope, it’s beat me.
Post by: Hockley Lion on June 01, 2021, 06:26:49 PM
Quote from Southgate:
"Those three (Lingard, Ward-Prowse and Watkins), I gave them the option of going home, but they were all adamant they wanted to stay and be a part of the group. I think Jesse will probably start tomorrow."
WTF?
Can anybody explain?
Nope, it’s beat me.
Could be embarrassing for Southgate if he plays a blinder.
Post by: exigo on June 01, 2021, 07:07:38 PM
Quote from Southgate:
"Those three (Lingard, Ward-Prowse and Watkins), I gave them the option of going home, but they were all adamant they wanted to stay and be a part of the group. I think Jesse will probably start tomorrow."
WTF?
Can anybody explain?
Easy. The current England manager is an absolute tool.
Post by: chrisw1 on June 01, 2021, 07:15:51 PM
Quote from Southgate:Is it because Mount played the CL final and he wants to give him a longer break and lingard is the most direct replacement? Even so, it's nuts.
"Those three (Lingard, Ward-Prowse and Watkins), I gave them the option of going home, but they were all adamant they wanted to stay and be a part of the group. I think Jesse will probably start tomorrow."
WTF?
Can anybody explain?
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on June 01, 2021, 07:28:34 PM
Quote from Southgate:Easy. Lingard plays RB against Austria. As Gareth explained: "Someone suggested it in a team meeting and after I reminded them that it's OK to think the unthinkable, we agreed.
"Those three (Lingard, Ward-Prowse and Watkins), I gave them the option of going home, but they were all adamant they wanted to stay and be a part of the group. I think Jesse will probably start tomorrow."
WTF?
Can anybody explain?
"That's what we have with this group, a real trust and a genuine bond - the laughter told me that.
"Anyway as Harry and Jordan H are clearly not fit, H, as I call him, will be between the sticks first-half and Hendo will take over for the second. It'll be good to give them some game-time in goal in case we are taken to penalties in the latter stages."
:o :o :o
Post by: jwarry on June 01, 2021, 07:45:03 PM
Quote from Southgate:Is it because Mount played the CL final and he wants to give him a longer break and lingard is the most direct replacement? Even so, it's nuts.
"Those three (Lingard, Ward-Prowse and Watkins), I gave them the option of going home, but they were all adamant they wanted to stay and be a part of the group. I think Jesse will probably start tomorrow."
WTF?
Can anybody explain?
No a right back is his direct replacement obviously, come on
Post by: olaftab on June 01, 2021, 07:53:35 PM
Post by: Smithy on June 01, 2021, 11:53:30 PM
Quote from Southgate:Is it because Mount played the CL final and he wants to give him a longer break and lingard is the most direct replacement? Even so, it's nuts.
"Those three (Lingard, Ward-Prowse and Watkins), I gave them the option of going home, but they were all adamant they wanted to stay and be a part of the group. I think Jesse will probably start tomorrow."
WTF?
Can anybody explain?
If Mason Mount isn't ready to play, then you play whoever would play in his place at the tournament. I'm completely baffled as to why any of those cut from the squad would get on the pitch. And I say that as someone who would LOVE to see Ollie make another appearance.
Post by: Hockley Lion on June 02, 2021, 12:57:41 AM
Why would you play someone who's not picked for the f'ing squad in place of someone who is?
Post by: Hillbilly on June 02, 2021, 01:18:24 AM
Post by: OCD on June 02, 2021, 11:42:25 AM
Other than SJM I don’t think any player ran as much this season. The break will absolutely do him good and he will come back raring to go for the WC qualifiers. It’s not altogether bad he missed out.
Good point here. His work-rate is incredible to the rest could help.
If he had been part of the squad, he would have still had a rest afterwards. I think the bigger benefit for us is that he will get a full pre-season with us instead of coming back half way through it due to international players having an extended break. He can look back on the progress he's made and know that if he continues the way he's going, he can be involved in future tournaments. World Cup '22 won't be far away.
Post by: darren woolley on June 02, 2021, 12:24:19 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on June 02, 2021, 12:54:13 PM
Post by: Drummond on June 03, 2021, 01:28:04 PM
Post by: Hookeysmith on June 03, 2021, 01:35:36 PM
Reputation and who you play for still the key driver at the FA
Post by: chrisw1 on June 03, 2021, 04:00:08 PM
I think Southgate has done well to give them a cap to help get over the disappointment, 5o show loyalty and to help them in future.I agree. I thought it was daft at first, but given all the missing players it was an opportunity and in hindsight feel it was really good man management.
With that said Ollie looked a bit like a fish out of water on the left. Must admit I thought he'd adapt a bit better than that.
Post by: jwarry on June 03, 2021, 04:06:44 PM
I think Southgate has done well to give them a cap to help get over the disappointment, 5o show loyalty and to help them in future.I agree. I thought it was daft at first, but given all the missing players it was an opportunity and in hindsight feel it was really good man management.
With that said Ollie looked a bit like a fish out of water on the left. Must admit I thought he'd adapt a bit better than that.
Which is why we don’t need Abraham and spend the money on a top class winger instead
Post by: Percy McCarthy on June 03, 2021, 04:40:49 PM
I think Southgate has done well to give them a cap to help get over the disappointment, 5o show loyalty and to help them in future.I agree. I thought it was daft at first, but given all the missing players it was an opportunity and in hindsight feel it was really good man management.
With that said Ollie looked a bit like a fish out of water on the left. Must admit I thought he'd adapt a bit better than that.
Which is why we don’t need Abraham and spend the money on a top class winger instead
Why instead? Is Ollie going to play every minute next season as well?
Post by: danno on June 03, 2021, 04:41:31 PM
I note in the last 20 odd games T.Rex arms Sturridge and Big nose Rashford have scored one goal each where as Watkins has 14 in his first year in top flight football.
Reputation and who you play for still the key driver at the FA
Sterling? Agree on the arms! He runs like a duck too.
Post by: paul_e on June 03, 2021, 05:45:18 PM
I think Southgate has done well to give them a cap to help get over the disappointment, 5o show loyalty and to help them in future.I agree. I thought it was daft at first, but given all the missing players it was an opportunity and in hindsight feel it was really good man management.
With that said Ollie looked a bit like a fish out of water on the left. Must admit I thought he'd adapt a bit better than that.
Which is why we don’t need Abraham and spend the money on a top class winger instead
Why instead? Is Ollie going to play every minute next season as well?
As I've said a few times if we can get the 2-3 higher priority positions filled first and have £35-40m spare down the back of the sofa then I'd be ok with going for Tammy but if signing him means we don't fill one of those spots and/or we end up pushing him or Watkins out onto the wing regularly to fit them both in then it would be a terrible bit of business. I don't mind him as a player but I think he's massively overrated by some people and has taken on a sort of mythical status with sections of our support which means unless we sign him he'll be linked to us in every window for the next decade.
Post by: OCD on June 03, 2021, 07:18:49 PM
Post by: algy on June 03, 2021, 08:05:42 PM
I oddly find myself with one foot in each camp because I still have an attachment to him from our promotion winning season but also have to acknowledge that quality players in the number 6 and 10 positions and a quality wide player have to be the priority. That probably means watching him sign for someone else.Yeah I'm in the same camp. I'd love us to sign Tammy, but in reality I think there's more pressing positions (the ones you mentioned) and i think I'd rather us spend £30m-£40m on players in those areas. Thinking something like Buendia, Smith Rowe, maybe Bellingham even might be good value even at that price ... sort of thinking nabbing the best players from the sides who for whatever reason need the money.
Post by: yammers on June 03, 2021, 08:31:28 PM
You and me, D. You know what they say, 'You can lead a horse(face) to water..'.
But a pencil has to be led
Post by: Hookeysmith on June 03, 2021, 08:55:44 PM
I note in the last 20 odd games T.Rex arms Sturridge and Big nose Rashford have scored one goal each where as Watkins has 14 in his first year in top flight football.
Reputation and who you play for still the key driver at the FA
Sterling? Agree on the arms! He runs like a duck too.
Oops yes Sterling
Post by: Hockley Lion on June 03, 2021, 09:48:01 PM
Post by: dave shelley on June 08, 2021, 01:09:11 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 08, 2021, 01:21:59 PM
https://www.bristolstreet.co.uk/pfaawards/
Post by: eamonn on June 08, 2021, 06:32:02 PM
Post by: West Derby Villan on June 08, 2021, 06:34:03 PM
The Leeds England fans at the Romania game kept chanting Paddy Bamford's name whenever Ollie Watkins got the ball.
Ah bless em
Post by: frank black on June 08, 2021, 07:39:46 PM
The Leeds England fans at the Romania game kept chanting Paddy Bamford's name whenever Ollie Watkins got the ball.
Ah bless em
And booed him on to the pitch
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 20, 2021, 02:42:00 PM
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1417469842244833283
Post by: Footy-Vill on July 31, 2021, 03:39:43 PM
Man deserves to always be on the main thread so giving him a deserved bump.
Expecting more goals for Ollie this season.
Well taken again today v Bristol city
Post by: wally58 on July 31, 2021, 04:28:54 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on July 31, 2021, 04:43:20 PM
I've had a few quid on him to be premier league top goalscorer for next season @ 20/1. Worth a punt if Jack stays.Worth a punt with Buendia and Bailey. Never mind England's great impact sub
Watkins must be delighted.
Jack wouldn't even get in this team in the front 3 !
I mean signing and strengthen our forward line is really wise whatever happens! And I truly believe Buendia and Bailey direct and progressive dribblers will do serious damage on the goals and assists front .
Up to Jack it he wants to fight for his place here or at Man City eh?!
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2021, 05:06:35 PM
I've had a few quid on him to be premier league top goalscorer for next season @ 20/1. Worth a punt if Jack stays.Worth a punt with Buendia and Bailey. Never mind England's great impact sub
Watkins must be delighted.
Jack wouldn't even get in this team in the front 3 !
I mean signing and strengthen our forward line is really wise whatever happens! And I truly believe Buendia and Bailey direct and progressive dribblers will do serious damage on the goals and assists front .
Up to Jack it he wants to fight for his place here or at Man City eh?!
Take a day off.
Post by: Footy-Vill on July 31, 2021, 06:13:05 PM
Some tongue in cheekI've had a few quid on him to be premier league top goalscorer for next season @ 20/1. Worth a punt if Jack stays.Worth a punt with Buendia and Bailey. Never mind England's great impact sub
Watkins must be delighted.
Jack wouldn't even get in this team in the front 3 !
I mean signing and strengthen our forward line is really wise whatever happens! And I truly believe Buendia and Bailey direct and progressive dribblers will do serious damage on the goals and assists front .
Up to Jack it he wants to fight for his place here or at Man City eh?!
Take a day off.
But doesn't get in England front 3 so perfectly fair to say that.
Possible as well depending on what needed. Smith might what pace in the wide areas
Post by: CT on July 31, 2021, 06:18:12 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 31, 2021, 06:24:34 PM
I've had a few quid on him to be premier league top goalscorer for next season @ 20/1. Worth a punt if Jack stays.
Agreed, 33/1 with Paddy Power btw.
Strangley Brighton are (and have been for weeks) shorter odds for top 4 etc. than Villa.
Post by: Footy-Vill on August 04, 2021, 12:34:08 PM
Maybe we just leave him to score and assist the goals.
I think he'll assist numbers could go up and well as goals this season.
Post by: Demitri_C on August 05, 2021, 08:08:01 AM
And thatsnot the funniest part 29m 😂😂😂😂
Ollies worth 3x that amount minimum
Post by: Footy-Vill on August 11, 2021, 09:11:45 PM
He said
"Watkins hasn’t played wide for a couple of years. I didn’t bring him in to play there. He scored 26 goals for Brentford playing as a centre-forward in the Championship and came to us and got 16 goals also as a centre-forward – so no I don’t envisage him out there"
Post by: villadelph on August 16, 2021, 05:06:48 PM
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 16, 2021, 05:21:25 PM
Post by: PaulTheVillan on August 16, 2021, 09:09:03 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2021, 09:38:42 PM
Post by: AV82EC on August 16, 2021, 09:44:21 PM
Post by: eamonn on August 16, 2021, 09:48:41 PM
Post by: LukeJames on August 16, 2021, 09:53:17 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2021, 09:55:40 PM
Post by: Dante Lavelli on August 16, 2021, 10:12:43 PM
Danny's not gonna be a sub for the fortune we are paying him and the other fortune we paid Southampton for him.
He shouldn’t be happy with it, but most clubs around us have similar priced players on the bench. Plus with rotation both Ollie and Ings should get more than enough games.
Post by: Footy-Vill on August 20, 2021, 10:17:45 AM
Not merely his goals but the movement energy and pressing from the front.
I totally feel when he's in the team we can get some positive scores and wins.
Ings offers goals but not the same wide movement and running of channels as Watkins. DI is more penalty box whereas Watkins constantly provides option
Can't wait to have him back involved hoping this weekend.
Waiting to hear news what Dean says as had press conference at 930am.
Post by: sickbeggar on August 20, 2021, 10:22:33 AM
Post by: DrGonzo on August 20, 2021, 10:28:03 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 20, 2021, 10:45:30 AM
In the game they played together it was Ings that was dropping deep and Ollie playing on the shoulder of the last man. So I don't see that this is the plan. Ollie is our front man.Ollie has great mobility and closes and harasses. You do that from the front. Ings finds space to sniff out chances, that requires freedom to roam around the penalty area.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 20, 2021, 11:18:47 AM
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on August 20, 2021, 11:37:17 AM
Hope he's not being saved for a move away from Villa with the Kane situation unresolved. I'd certainly like no more high profile exits only high profile incomings if Villa are serious about bettering 11th place.
Post by: sickbeggar on August 20, 2021, 11:39:25 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on August 20, 2021, 11:53:03 AM
Surely that's bullshit? Surely he'd want to know exactly what the injury was? Fucking hell, I want to know excactly what the injury is and it's not my job to prepare and pick the fucking team.
Post by: placeforparks on August 20, 2021, 12:16:45 PM
google tells me 2-4 weeks to heal.
Post by: mr underhill on August 20, 2021, 12:46:46 PM
Post by: ozzjim on August 20, 2021, 12:50:59 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on August 20, 2021, 12:52:24 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 20, 2021, 12:54:31 PM
Did Smith really say he didn't know much about it? If so he's really begining tro piss me off when itr comes to the obfuscation over injuries.
Don't see why he should help out opposition teams prepare by informing them if they will possibly be facing Ollie or not.
Post by: ozzjim on August 20, 2021, 12:59:45 PM
Post by: sickbeggar on August 20, 2021, 01:04:01 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on August 20, 2021, 01:12:04 PM
We don't need to change shape or shoe horn players in, sharing a role between two players should be perfectly acceptable in this day and age. Particulalry when Watkins is versatile and can be given minutes out wide too.
Hopefully we'll have a few good games whilst Watkins is out and we can then afford to ease him back slowly from the bench.
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on August 20, 2021, 01:13:38 PM
Post by: brontebilly on August 20, 2021, 01:21:18 PM
True. Having Ings come in instead of Wesley or the injured again Davis is a godsend. We got very lucky last season with Ollie not missing many games injured.
True but we'll miss him anyway. He's a very different forward than Ings. Presses hard from the front, quick and can lead the line very well. Ings is more of a crafty type forward able to sniff out goals that Watkins wouldn't. We will need to use and keep possession a lot better without Watkins in the team.
Post by: chrisw1 on August 20, 2021, 01:29:05 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 20, 2021, 01:32:39 PM
Post by: wince on August 20, 2021, 01:54:49 PM
Post by: villadelph on August 20, 2021, 02:19:30 PM
Every year I buy a shirt.. Albrighton, Young, Milner, Grealish.. something bad happens.
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 20, 2021, 02:45:08 PM
This is all my fault.. I got Ollie on my away shirt this year.
Every year I buy a shirt.. Albrighton, Young, Milner, Grealish.. something bad happens.
Get Grealish again.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 20, 2021, 02:47:09 PM
After the international break it is then.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on August 20, 2021, 04:15:20 PM
Is there something in how many injuries we seem to get? Is bodymoor like an injury factory as we seem so unlucky over last few seasons.
I think it's all the intensive training we do especially pre-season.
Post by: darren woolley on August 20, 2021, 04:55:58 PM
Post by: achilles on August 20, 2021, 06:09:29 PM
Post by: OCD on August 20, 2021, 06:11:15 PM
Post by: frank black on August 20, 2021, 06:18:34 PM
Did Smith really say he didn't know much about it? If so he's really begining tro piss me off when itr comes to the obfuscation over injuries.
He loves the secret squirrel approach to injuries. Expect him to be out for months with this.
Post by: Risso on August 20, 2021, 06:49:36 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on August 20, 2021, 06:52:14 PM
A bruised knee? I'm no sports scientist, but a bruised knee is keeping him out for weeks?
He's a delicate flower.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on August 20, 2021, 07:06:07 PM
A bruised knee? I'm no sports scientist, but a bruised knee is keeping him out for weeks?
He's a delicate flower.
Think it's a damaged patella not petal.
Post by: N'ZMAV on August 20, 2021, 07:41:12 PM
Ollie Watkins, I don’t expect to play. He’s not healed as quick as we would have liked so far. I’m hopeful that he’ll be back for Brentford,” Smith said.after the 2022 world cup it is then
After the international break it is then.
Post by: PeterWithe on August 20, 2021, 08:22:22 PM
Post by: villadelph on August 20, 2021, 09:03:21 PM
A bruised knee? I'm no sports scientist, but a bruised knee is keeping him out for weeks?
He's a delicate flower.
So was "Concrete" Ron.
Post by: Footy-Vill on August 27, 2021, 11:14:47 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 27, 2021, 11:17:21 PM
A bruised knee? I'm no sports scientist, but a bruised knee is keeping him out for weeks?However it's not as bad as bruised ego that kept many of players out of the team in the past.
Post by: Footy-Vill on August 28, 2021, 02:33:38 PM
Hoping he gets 30 mins or so Vs his old club.
Knows how to play them.
Think he'll score if he plays any minutes
Post by: Ian. on August 28, 2021, 09:24:56 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on August 28, 2021, 09:29:00 PM
Quality wasn't he Ian.
Enjoyed how he fed Ings back and forth in our counter attack and ended with a left foot shot
To be honest there he needed to clip one into the middle
But he's certainly looking good linking and finding Ings.
Straightforward player is Ings so he'll be able to read and understand his play.
Felt Ings made Adams better last season once he got grips Ollie a level above so could be quite a duo.
Post by: Ads on August 28, 2021, 09:41:00 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on August 28, 2021, 09:47:53 PM
Bit odd he's deemed fittest player at the club, plays all of pre season. Injured for two weeks and can only manage 10 minutes? (o.k it was a bit more given the extra 8 minutes).
Would've had him on at the hour mark, DS still has that to prove as despite being no more than average the game was still in the balance and there to be won.
At some point this season we will have 2-3 good options on the bench to win a game if we're drawing/losing but will they be put on with long enough to make an impact?
Post by: CT on September 05, 2021, 07:19:12 PM
I’d have hoped to have seen some shots of him training this week, unless I’ve missed it of course. Saw Luiz, Ings, and a few others.
We need him back “on the grass” as soon as.
Post by: eamonn on September 06, 2021, 10:50:17 AM
Post by: OCD on September 06, 2021, 11:52:28 AM
Post by: mr underhill on September 06, 2021, 12:14:12 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 06, 2021, 12:17:47 PM
Post by: olaftab on September 06, 2021, 12:18:51 PM
Post by: Risso on September 06, 2021, 12:21:12 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 06, 2021, 12:23:49 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on September 06, 2021, 12:44:13 PM
lots of talk of him needing a hernia operation.
At least that will solve the issue of how to fit both him and Ings in the team.
Post by: CT on September 06, 2021, 01:13:42 PM
Is Dr Nik from the Simpsons the club Doctor?
Post by: Smithy on September 06, 2021, 01:14:25 PM
Seen nothing about Hernia, beyond people saying "Hang on, what's this about a hernia?"
Post by: rob_bridge on September 06, 2021, 01:17:14 PM
He was trending because TalkSport were debating England strikers this morning, and whether Bamford or Watkins should be next in line in the England squad beyond the regulars.
Seen nothing about Hernia, beyond people saying "Hang on, what's this about a hernia?"
I hope his hernia gets better and even better that there is nothing wrong with it. Can someone post on twitter something else made up. Love to myself but I don't have an account
Post by: darren woolley on September 06, 2021, 01:18:16 PM
Post by: Drummond on September 06, 2021, 01:55:41 PM
He was trending because TalkSport were debating England strikers this morning, and whether Bamford or Watkins should be next in line in the England squad beyond the regulars.
Seen nothing about Hernia, beyond people saying "Hang on, what's this about a hernia?"
I hope his hernia gets better and even better that there is nothing wrong with it. Can someone post on twitter something else made up. Love to myself but I don't have an account
Villa fan's fury at latest rumour.
@robbridge would love to respond but his account has been blocked for links to organised crime and links to porn trade.
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 10, 2021, 02:53:37 PM
"We should be welcoming Ollie Watkins back to the fold - he played 15 minutes against Brentford"
Post by: darren woolley on September 11, 2021, 10:43:57 AM
Post by: Bobby Boy on September 11, 2021, 07:32:26 PM
Post by: Dante Lavelli on September 11, 2021, 07:34:11 PM
Worked hard but his finishing was sub-par today. Particularly when he was put through on the left and checked inside. Was screaming to be hit first time.
Agree but was infinitely more visible than Ings which is a worry.
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 11, 2021, 07:36:55 PM
Worked hard but his finishing was sub-par today. Particularly when he was put through on the left and checked inside. Was screaming to be hit first time.
Thought that was a very good save from Mendy personally. The other chance he should've done better, hit it the other side given the defenders were moving to where the shot ended up.
Still though was fantastic technically first half, ball was glued to his foot at times.
Post by: sickbeggar on September 11, 2021, 07:39:18 PM
Worked hard but his finishing was sub-par today. Particularly when he was put through on the left and checked inside. Was screaming to be hit first time.
Thought that was a very good save from Mendy personally. The other chance he should've done better, hit it the other side given the defenders were moving to where the shot ended up.
Still though was fantastic technically first half, ball was glued to his foot at times.
Yep it was a cracking save from Mendy. Bit harsh laying the blame at his door imo.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 11, 2021, 07:41:24 PM
Right now though I'm just happy to see him back.
Post by: p_ad on September 11, 2021, 07:43:32 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 11, 2021, 07:45:46 PM
Great to see him back, full of energy, works the channels brilliantly, we're by far a better team with him in it, he just needs to work on his first touch which is generally very poor for a top level striker. That said, if he had a decent first touch he'd be the complete striker with a far better conversion rate. I've always thought he need 4 or 5 chances to put one away.
Right now though I'm just happy to see him back.
I thought his first touch was brilliant when receiving the ball. Problem Ollie has is he just lacks a bit of confidence when he realises he's one on one with the keeper. Very often like tonight he gets the ball then has another touch to make sure it's under control and then he'll take another touch to try to get it around the keeper so either keeper says it or he gets crowded out by defenders.
Top strikers take one touch to set and then hit the shot before keeper is fully set as Lukaku showed with the first.
That's what will stop him becoming a 20 + goal a season striker at this level but obviously gives so much in other ways compared to say Ings who is more of a finisher which has its pros and cons.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 11, 2021, 07:49:32 PM
Post by: Rigadon on September 11, 2021, 07:55:11 PM
Post by: ozzjim on September 11, 2021, 08:04:43 PM
Post by: Mister E on September 11, 2021, 08:22:32 PM
Adds a bit of composure in front of goal he's £80 million. Great player, needs a bit of ruthlessness.That's for sure - his final product tonight was poor.
Post by: manic-road on September 11, 2021, 08:52:31 PM
Adds a bit of composure in front of goal he's £80 million. Great player, needs a bit of ruthlessness.That's for sure - his final product tonight was poor.
Mendy made some good saves from Watkins, I'd be more worried if he wasn't getting in the right positions to get a shot off or not getting any chances at all.
Post by: Risso on September 11, 2021, 08:54:33 PM
Adds a bit of composure in front of goal he's £80 million. Great player, needs a bit of ruthlessness.
Yep, his shooting doesn't quite measure up to the rest of his game. Overall I thought he was really good though.
Post by: Mister E on September 11, 2021, 08:55:09 PM
Oh, I agree - in the end, what defines the great strikers is their ability to make it count when given the chance. But I totally agree that Watkins is a class act and will get better.Mendy made some good saves from Watkins, I'd be more worried if he wasn't getting in the right positions to get a shot off or not getting any chances at all.Adds a bit of composure in front of goal he's £80 million. Great player, needs a bit of ruthlessness.That's for sure - his final product tonight was poor.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 11, 2021, 08:57:27 PM
Post by: Dante Lavelli on September 11, 2021, 09:07:19 PM
His finishing could definitely improve but he’s only in his second season at the top level so that might come.
Post by: Ads on September 11, 2021, 11:26:32 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 11, 2021, 11:29:26 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 11, 2021, 11:54:31 PM
Adds a bit of composure in front of goal he's £80 million. Great player, needs a bit of ruthlessness.
Yep, his shooting doesn't quite measure up to the rest of his game. Overall I thought he was really good though.
It was his first full 90 of the season not forget
Post by: The Charmer on September 13, 2021, 04:30:46 PM
Adds a bit of composure in front of goal he's £80 million. Great player, needs a bit of ruthlessness.
Yep, his shooting doesn't quite measure up to the rest of his game. Overall I thought he was really good though.
It was his first full 90 of the season not forget
It was his first full game and yet he immediately brings such positivity to our attack; I love his energy.
Really looking forward to seeing how he dove-tails with Bailey and Buendia this season.
The Bailey cameo on Saturday gave me much cause for optimism.
Post by: Steve67 on September 13, 2021, 07:47:41 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 30, 2021, 10:20:32 AM
Or /And Tammy Abraham
Post by: Clampy on September 30, 2021, 02:08:17 PM
Post by: London Villan on September 30, 2021, 02:28:29 PM
Post by: Drummond on September 30, 2021, 02:33:14 PM
Good on Watkins.
Post by: Ger Regan on September 30, 2021, 02:45:07 PM
Southgate quoted as saying Ramsdale is showing he can do it after a move to a 'bigger club'. Wanker.He's such a ridiculous star fucker
Post by: rob_bridge on September 30, 2021, 02:47:44 PM
Watkins and Mings both called up.
Well done to both and well deserved too
Post by: olaftab on September 30, 2021, 02:50:13 PM
Post by: darren woolley on September 30, 2021, 02:55:20 PM
Post by: Smithy on September 30, 2021, 04:09:58 PM
Post by: DC1874 on September 30, 2021, 04:40:52 PM
Post by: Dave on September 30, 2021, 04:58:24 PM
Southgate quoted as saying Ramsdale is showing he can do it after a move to a 'bigger club'. Wanker.
Is that really all that egregious? He was picking him regularly when he was at Sheffield Utd.
He's not saying that he's picking him because he's now at Arsenal, he's saying that he's playing well at Arsenal. Which he is.
Post by: wittonwarrior on September 30, 2021, 05:43:24 PM
Post by: olaftab on September 30, 2021, 06:21:01 PM
And he picks Johnstone who plays for ...yes west brom.Southgate quoted as saying Ramsdale is showing he can do it after a move to a 'bigger club'. Wanker.
Is that really all that egregious? He was picking him regularly when he was at Sheffield Utd.
He's not saying that he's picking him because he's now at Arsenal, he's saying that he's playing well at Arsenal. Which he is.
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 30, 2021, 07:21:04 PM
And he picks Johnstone who plays for ...yes west brom.Southgate quoted as saying Ramsdale is showing he can do it after a move to a 'bigger club'. Wanker.
Is that really all that egregious? He was picking him regularly when he was at Sheffield Utd.
He's not saying that he's picking him because he's now at Arsenal, he's saying that he's playing well at Arsenal. Which he is.
WBA bigger than Sheffield Utd and Bournemouth though -the 2 Clubs Ramsdale been at in the Prem
And Johnstone a Premier league keeper . He's been one of the better keepers who consistently improved and not fallen away like say Jack Butland or John Ruddy
Thats my view
Post by: john e on September 30, 2021, 07:44:30 PM
And he picks Johnstone who plays for ...yes west brom.Southgate quoted as saying Ramsdale is showing he can do it after a move to a 'bigger club'. Wanker.
Is that really all that egregious? He was picking him regularly when he was at Sheffield Utd.
He's not saying that he's picking him because he's now at Arsenal, he's saying that he's playing well at Arsenal. Which he is.
WBA bigger than Sheffield Utd and Bournemouth though -the 2 Clubs Ramsdale been at in the Prem
And Johnstone a Premier league keeper . He's been one of the better keepers who consistently improved and not fallen away like say Jack Butland or John Ruddy
Thats my view
Defo Bournmouth
Sheffield Utd not much in it
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 30, 2021, 07:56:25 PM
Overall history WBA 82 seasons in top flight 1 league title 6 cups.
Sheffield U 62 seasons. 1 league title 4 cups
Close in that respect of trophies won
Post by: Somniloquism on September 30, 2021, 09:24:31 PM
I think he's been lucky with this call up but there again so has Kane. One thing it does show it is not so much about the Villa that Southgate has a downer on. Rather his style of play or what we call safeball
Then there is Sancho…..
Tbh there are not many goals at all in the front 6 in the league this season. 3 I think in the league between them.
Post by: Ads on September 30, 2021, 10:47:15 PM
Post by: Pete3206 on September 30, 2021, 10:55:02 PM
As for Watkins, what a kick in the balls for in form Tammy Abraham.
Post by: LeeB on September 30, 2021, 11:24:27 PM
Sancho must have been amazing for Dortmund, but everytime I've seen him in an England or Man United shirt bow, he's been sub El Ghazi.
Same here. It looks like a lot to pay for the new Wayne Routledge.
Post by: JD on October 01, 2021, 01:33:02 AM
As his status is currently Man Ure, I guess Sancho is a shoe in for the England squad for the next 18 months or so, until he's sent on loan to a Norwich before an inevitable permanent transfer to an Everton.
As for Watkins, what a kick in the balls for in form Tammy Abraham.
And Antonio at West Ham.
Post by: Mister E on October 01, 2021, 07:20:34 AM
Doesn't Antonio play for Jamaica?As his status is currently Man Ure, I guess Sancho is a shoe in for the England squad for the next 18 months or so, until he's sent on loan to a Norwich before an inevitable permanent transfer to an Everton.And Antonio at West Ham.
As for Watkins, what a kick in the balls for in form Tammy Abraham.
Post by: JD on October 01, 2021, 08:42:07 AM
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on October 01, 2021, 09:06:22 AM
Post by: sid1964 on October 01, 2021, 10:56:56 AM
Post by: Risso on October 01, 2021, 11:00:34 AM
Surprised at the Watkins call up - no goals so far this season, and not playing as well as last season when he did deserve his inclusion in the England squad
Southgate doesn't concern himself with trifling matters like form.
Post by: Clark W Griswold on October 01, 2021, 12:50:00 PM
Post by: Drummond on October 01, 2021, 01:15:42 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on October 01, 2021, 01:19:05 PM
Bad if he does, as he was born in Wandsworth and as far as I know up until last year he could have played for either country.
I think that Antonio got fed up of waiting for the England call up that his form has deserved at various points
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 01, 2021, 01:20:12 PM
Southgate has a lot of praise for Watkins and would have him in before last internationals but was injured. GS respects Watkins attitude and behaviour when he was so close to being in the squad in the summer.Surprised at the Watkins call up - no goals so far this season, and not playing as well as last season when he did deserve his inclusion in the England squadI’m not surprised at all, he’s a cracking player and miles better than Bamford or Tammy. It’s early season and he’s only just back from injury, hopefully Mouthgate sees him as a good long term option so wants to get him involved now.
Southgate doesn't concern himself with trifling matters like form.
I think both loyalty and respect has shown as Ollie himself made a strong impression so great to have that
And it's telling to that Dean Smith said "The knee injury has been a frustration for him and us. We’ve had to modify his training a little bit but he knows how to get the best out of himself"
So OW only just working himself back back full fitness as well as becoming a father for the first time
Clearly Ollie is a class act.
Post by: Ian. on October 01, 2021, 01:33:16 PM
Surprised at the Watkins call up - no goals so far this season, and not playing as well as last season when he did deserve his inclusion in the England squad
I’m more surprised that he’s selected Kane. If form was related with the selection process.
Post by: Risso on October 01, 2021, 03:43:41 PM
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 01, 2021, 04:20:54 PM
Sancho's inclusion is the real head scratcher.
I have never seen anything of him to think he is all that . But they loved him in Germany
Post by: Somniloquism on October 01, 2021, 04:47:39 PM
Sancho's inclusion is the real head scratcher.I have never seen anything of him to think he is all that . But they loved him in Germany
The trouble is he barely played for England when in form for Dortmund, was then selected for some weird reason for the Euros squad but only got a match time as "reward" for signing for Manure before being dropped in by the twonk in the most pressure situation you could have in the final. Since then he has been anonymous at Manure, probably because it is now the Ronnie show.
If he was performing for Manure, I might have said he was this generations Barnes. But he isn't.
I see he dropped the inform Bellingham and the-slightly-better-then-Sancho Greenwood for development reasons? I suppose not burning them out when younger with loads of matches might be a good thing. However if they are good enough to play at the top level for their clubs, surely they are for their country as well.
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 01, 2021, 04:49:17 PM
Sancho's inclusion is the real head scratcher.
Is it though? He plays for Man U. He wouldn’t be in the squad if he played for Brighton.
Post by: Drummond on October 01, 2021, 05:28:22 PM
Sancho's inclusion is the real head scratcher.
Is it though? He plays for Man U. He wouldn’t be in the squad if he played for Brighton.
Southgate basically said that Sancho was lucky to be in based on his form. So yes, he wouldn't do it for anyone else I wouldn't have thought.
Post by: Pete3206 on October 02, 2021, 06:18:03 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 02, 2021, 06:47:19 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 02, 2021, 06:48:20 PM
Sancho and Townsend seem better signings than Sancho at the moment.
🤔
Post by: Risso on October 02, 2021, 06:51:46 PM
Sancho and Townsend seem better signings than Sancho at the moment.
🤔
Makes perfect sense to me. If you sign Sancho and somebody else, then you don't have to play Sancho.
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 02, 2021, 07:27:23 PM
Post by: brontebilly on October 02, 2021, 07:35:49 PM
Sancho's inclusion is the real head scratcher.I have never seen anything of him to think he is all that . But they loved him in Germany
The trouble is he barely played for England when in form for Dortmund, was then selected for some weird reason for the Euros squad but only got a match time as "reward" for signing for Manure before being dropped in by the twonk in the most pressure situation you could have in the final. Since then he has been anonymous at Manure, probably because it is now the Ronnie show.
If he was performing for Manure, I might have said he was this generations Barnes. But he isn't.
I see he dropped the inform Bellingham and the-slightly-better-then-Sancho Greenwood for development reasons? I suppose not burning them out when younger with loads of matches might be a good thing. However if they are good enough to play at the top level for their clubs, surely they are for their country as well.
Something amiss with Greenwood off the field I think. He dropped out of the Euros squad with no real reason given. Has dodged a few squads since. Talented player with the ball but lazy as sin without it.
Post by: LeeB on October 02, 2021, 09:59:03 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 05, 2021, 09:08:21 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 05, 2021, 09:11:26 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 05, 2021, 09:16:26 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 05, 2021, 09:17:21 PM
Something amiss with Greenwood off the field I think. He dropped out of the Euros squad with no real reason given. Has dodged a few squads since. Talented player with the ball but lazy as sin without it.
Quite possibly, reading between the lines on the Yanited forums last season I got a 'he may be out and about too much and needs to knuckle down a bit' vibe.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 05, 2021, 09:21:44 PM
"Conspirobollocks" suggests mistakenly that I know somebody who agrees with me!
The Arsenal link today?
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 05, 2021, 09:34:42 PM
"Conspirobollocks" suggests mistakenly that I know somebody who agrees with me!
The Arsenal link today?
I've not seen that, it was all my own work. Given it seems widely known he grew up a fan of theirs, I can't imagine the press letting that obvious link go until he's signed on the dotted line for someone other than us.
Post by: villadelph on October 05, 2021, 09:51:05 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 07, 2021, 10:50:49 AM
Build up his match fitness if anything else.
And maybe a goal or two!
Post by: Demitri_C on October 17, 2021, 09:18:13 AM
One goal all season. Not good enough
Post by: Aldridge Villa on October 17, 2021, 10:56:01 AM
Post by: Ads on October 17, 2021, 11:10:15 AM
Post by: bilsim on October 17, 2021, 11:18:30 AM
Post by: Vegas on October 17, 2021, 12:36:55 PM
He is constantly slipping over which is mental. Seems like that could be sorted quickly but it hasn’t been. He’s also looking totally lost in a 2, well behind Ings in my view for general contribution and effectiveness, plus his confidence to shoot seems totally shot.
Post by: CT Villan on October 17, 2021, 06:34:51 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 17, 2021, 06:45:30 PM
Probably that baby keeping him up all night. 🤣
Post by: Mister E on October 17, 2021, 08:33:10 PM
He needs an extra touch and seems a little ponderous. Whether this is because he's conscious of which space to run into relative to Ings, or whether it's something else. Maybe, it's not having a winger either side of him which is inhibiting his thinking ...
Post by: Ian. on October 17, 2021, 09:17:50 PM
Probably that baby keeping him up all night. 🤣
I was useless for weeks when my wife had our first. The shock of living off a few hours sleep a night hit me hard. I made so many cock ups at work I was lucky to keep my job.
Post by: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 09:01:48 AM
Probably that baby keeping him up all night. 🤣
I was useless for weeks when my wife had our first. The shock of living off a few hours sleep a night hit me hard. I made so many cock ups at work I was lucky to keep my job.
My 3rd nearly did for me. I think the euphoria kept me going for my first, and I knew my job inside out. For my 3rd I changed jobs around the same time, and was all over the place, 100 mile journeys when I arrived and couldn't remember the journey I'd just done.
Post by: Risso on October 18, 2021, 09:18:50 AM
*Not all of this is true.**
**I mean none, I'm shattered!
Post by: AV82EC on October 18, 2021, 09:45:11 AM
Lightweights! With our 5th, I'm up every morning at 5am, do a 10K run, answer all my emails, learn a new language and play a new instrument.*
*Not all of this is true.**
**I mean none, I'm shattered!
God that sounds like one of those absolute ***** you see on LinkedIn. Immediate mute or block and also delete anyone who likes one of their posts.
Post by: Risso on October 18, 2021, 10:29:48 AM
Lightweights! With our 5th, I'm up every morning at 5am, do a 10K run, answer all my emails, learn a new language and play a new instrument.*
*Not all of this is true.**
**I mean none, I'm shattered!
God that sounds like one of those absolute ***** you see on LinkedIn. Immediate mute or block and also delete anyone who likes one of their posts.
Absolutely! The Twitter account "The State of LinkedIn" is good for taking the piss out of them.
My version would be:
Alarm goes off at 6.45. Think about jumping stratight out of bed, but decide to give it 5 more minutes.
Wake up again at 7.10 in a panic, and go and shout at the kids to get up.
Decide that a 'student shower' (squirt of deodorant) is all I have time for this morning.
Shout at kids again.
Check Facebook and WhatsApp.
Put kettle on.
Shout at kids again.
Bundle them all into car, forgetting at least one PE bag.
Post by: Drummond on October 18, 2021, 10:58:43 AM
Lightweights! With our 5th, I'm up every morning at 5am, do a 10K run, answer all my emails, learn a new language and play a new instrument.*
*Not all of this is true.**
**I mean none, I'm shattered!
I don't know how you even had the energy to make a 5th.
Post by: ozzjim on October 18, 2021, 11:35:32 AM
Lightweights! With our 5th, I'm up every morning at 5am, do a 10K run, answer all my emails, learn a new language and play a new instrument.*
*Not all of this is true.**
**I mean none, I'm shattered!
I don't know how you even had the energy to make a 5th.
Our eldest has moved out, so there are only 2 left to move on now. The idea of 5 is truly terrifying.
Post by: Nunkin1965 on October 23, 2021, 08:41:45 AM
Getting booked inside the first minute tells me that the lad is frustrated with something.
Post by: ozzjim on October 23, 2021, 09:02:46 AM
Post by: Nunkin1965 on October 23, 2021, 09:11:37 AM
But Smith has to leave out Ings which is clearly something he doesn't want to do.
Post by: Ad@m on October 23, 2021, 09:33:31 AM
Yes he did look far more comfortable in the role that worked absolutely fine last season.
But Smith has to leave out Ings which is clearly something he doesn't want to do.
Which is madness. Sticking him in a two has absolutely killed the player we had last year and the system we've got doesn't play to Ings strength either.
Smith absolutely has to try something different - either Ollie wide left or drop Ings so Ollie can be up front on his own.
We're 9 games in and there's absolutely no sign two up front is getting the best out of either of them.
Post by: Demitri_C on October 23, 2021, 10:18:02 AM
Its not all his fault. Smiths tactics have been awful and ollies suffering and looks deeply frustrated.
Post by: brontebilly on October 23, 2021, 10:21:44 AM
Id drop ollie. He has been absolute crap. When i was saying to sign tammy and people were saying what about ollie he cabt be dropped! Well he can and should he has been terrible.
Its not all his fault. Smiths tactics have been awful and ollies suffering and looks deeply frustrated.
He had a good second half last night I thought. Both on the left wing and later up front. As many of us suspected when Ings was signed, Watkins simply can't play in a two.
Post by: Flamingo Lane on October 23, 2021, 12:06:27 PM
Post by: AV82EC on October 25, 2021, 10:35:18 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 25, 2021, 10:39:14 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on October 25, 2021, 11:27:15 PM
Yes he did look far more comfortable in the role that worked absolutely fine last season.
But Smith has to leave out Ings which is clearly something he doesn't want to do.
Still think that was one of the main factors in the switch to 3-5-2.
Post by: fredm on October 26, 2021, 06:52:59 PM
Post by: RichardBatchelor on October 26, 2021, 07:01:40 PM
Think both he and Ings can play together. Need to go to 4-3-3 and coach Watkins to play in a similar way to how Henry did and how Salah does now. Mobile using his speed and movement to utilise the width of the pitch and not just be a central target. Ings can be the central figure but Watkins and either Bailey or Traore can be the other two attackers.
That would be great!
Post by: paul_e on October 26, 2021, 11:53:50 PM
Think both he and Ings can play together. Need to go to 4-3-3 and coach Watkins to play in a similar way to how Henry did and how Salah does now. Mobile using his speed and movement to utilise the width of the pitch and not just be a central target. Ings can be the central figure but Watkins and either Bailey or Traore can be the other two attackers.
Salah and Mane are excellent as wide forwards but it's easy to miss how important Firmino is as well. I think bailey and watkins as wide-ish forwards could work well but I can't decide if Ings can do the "9 and a half" role between them.
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on October 27, 2021, 04:20:54 PM
Watkins has been absolutely brilliant for us since joining, and to fuck him off now just so Ings can play is to me, borderline criminal
Watkins plays best in the middle, as a loan striker with wide men either side who can drift in when he pulls wide etc
This has been PROVEN to work already, and i'm a big believer in the 'if it's not broken don't try and fix it' school of thought.
I see absolutely no reason why this 4-3-3 shouldn't still be our number one formation option.
For me, you play Bailey on the left, Watkins in the middle and try Buendia in his preferred position on the right side.
Simple as that.
Post by: Risso on October 27, 2021, 04:43:14 PM
Watkins has been absolutely brilliant for us since joining, and to fuck him off now just so Ings can play is to me, borderline criminal
Watkins plays best in the middle, as a loan striker with wide men either side who can drift in when he pulls wide etc
This has been PROVEN to work already, and i'm a big believer in the 'if it's not broken don't try and fix it' school of thought.
I see absolutely no reason why this 4-3-3 shouldn't still be our number one formation option.
For me, you play Bailey on the left, Watkins in the middle and try Buendia in his preferred position on the right side.
Simple as that.
Radical!
But I like it.
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 27, 2021, 04:52:43 PM
Post by: AV82EC on October 27, 2021, 05:24:51 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 27, 2021, 05:49:36 PM
Post by: AV82EC on October 27, 2021, 05:54:07 PM
My choice is Watkins and Bailey wide, Buendia in behind Ings.
Still think this leaves us light in midfield as it means sacrificing the Ramsey/Sanson position to another forward and means McGinn has to stifle his attacking intent. Anyway let see how Smith decides to solve the conundrum on Sunday.
Post by: West Derby Villan on October 27, 2021, 05:58:58 PM
My choice is Watkins and Bailey wide, Buendia in behind Ings.
Yeah like the look of that
Post by: Risso on October 27, 2021, 06:02:22 PM
Post by: LeeB on October 27, 2021, 06:06:47 PM
Watkins has been absolutely brilliant for us since joining, and to fuck him off now just so Ings can play is to me, borderline criminal
Watkins plays best in the middle, as a loan striker with wide men either side who can drift in when he pulls wide etc
This has been PROVEN to work already, and i'm a big believer in the 'if it's not broken don't try and fix it' school of thought.
I see absolutely no reason why this 4-3-3 shouldn't still be our number one formation option.
For me, you play Bailey on the left, Watkins in the middle and try Buendia in his preferred position on the right side.
Simple as that.
I agree.
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 27, 2021, 06:10:35 PM
I think Buendia played anywhere centrally is going to be a huge disappointment.Yes needs to be deployed right wing position in a 4-2-3-1
As the legend goes
'During December 2019, Buendía created 29 chances for his teammates. This is the most chances created by a player in a single month in the Premier League since the stat began to be recorded in 2003–04'
Post by: Risso on October 27, 2021, 06:16:14 PM
I like Watkins, but if you are only playing one up front there's an argument that he deserves to be dropped more than Ings on the basis that neither is playing brilliantly but Ings is, at least, scoring.
They've both got 1 goal in the last 7 games, so not really much to choose form wise.
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 27, 2021, 07:33:11 PM
Post by: mrfuse on October 27, 2021, 07:48:31 PM
Watkins has been absolutely brilliant for us since joining, and to fuck him off now just so Ings can play is to me, borderline criminal
Watkins plays best in the middle, as a loan striker with wide men either side who can drift in when he pulls wide etc
This has been PROVEN to work already, and i'm a big believer in the 'if it's not broken don't try and fix it' school of thought.
I see absolutely no reason why this 4-3-3 shouldn't still be our number one formation option.
For me, you play Bailey on the left, Watkins in the middle and try Buendia in his preferred position on the right side.
Simple as that.
Totally agree and while I think Ings is good player it has really messed up our formation in trying to fit him in.
Ings on the Bench and just rotate them accordingly. Buendia as you say in his preferred possession and Tuenazebe no where near the first team just for the moment.
Its not guaranteed changing the formation will get us any points on Sunday but it will give us a chance.
Post by: brontebilly on October 27, 2021, 11:45:45 PM
My choice is Watkins and Bailey wide, Buendia in behind Ings.
Still think this leaves us light in midfield as it means sacrificing the Ramsey/Sanson position to another forward and means McGinn has to stifle his attacking intent. Anyway let see how Smith decides to solve the conundrum on Sunday.
Agreed, we can't regress to Luiz/McGinn as a two again. McGinn hasn't the discipline to play there and it's a waste of his talents in any case. Has to be three in midfield.
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 27, 2021, 11:52:51 PM
Buendia isn't a central midfielder. He should be playing behind the centre forward.
Post by: brontebilly on October 28, 2021, 12:52:31 AM
4-2-3-1 was often brilliant last year, when Barkley could be arsed. It can work again with Buendia as, hopefully, a far more consistent version of Barkley, Bailey replacing Quisling and Watkins playing in the El Ghazi/Trezeguet/Traore spot, at least until the latter is fit again.
Buendia isn't a central midfielder. He should be playing behind the centre forward.
That's where he played v Arsenal and he was useless. 4231 didn't work without Grealish last season and it was struggling for a while before his injury in truth (Southampton, Brighton away come to mind). The longer Luiz/McGinn played there the more they struggled, neither are good enough frankly to play in a 2. I think it's mad after all this that the answer is to go back to Luiz/McGinn as a two again, not just you but Smith evidently aswell.
My biggest fear is a) Buendia bought to replace Barkley but our best formation doesn't include a #10, b) Ings bought but again our best formation doesn't have two up front, Watkins to the left wing I'm not against occasionally but even Smith has said himself that's not his best position. c) why we spent the bones of 50m on the pair of them, when we have at least three wingers .. Bailey, Traore, AEG (McGinn would be able to play on the right too)..
There's no logic to that recruitment for me and I think Smith tactics are a reflection of that so far this season.
Post by: KRS on October 28, 2021, 09:04:28 AM
What happens when or if either of Watkins or Ings gets injured? We’d either have to change formation or bring in one of our younger squad players (not such a bad option with Archer tbh). It’s pretty obvious to me that you rotate Watkins/Ings and pick suitable formation/tactics to get the best out of them and the rest of the team.
I hope DS has learned his lesson…reverts to a back four and rotates Watkins/Ings…the rest of the team pretty much picks itself depending on form/injuries.
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 28, 2021, 11:41:16 AM
But prefer the wide men to be Traore Buendia Bailey.
Post by: Risso on October 28, 2021, 03:33:05 PM
4-2-3-1 was often brilliant last year, when Barkley could be arsed. It can work again with Buendia as, hopefully, a far more consistent version of Barkley, Bailey replacing Quisling and Watkins playing in the El Ghazi/Trezeguet/Traore spot, at least until the latter is fit again.
Buendia isn't a central midfielder. He should be playing behind the centre forward.
In two games, when both Grealish and Barkley were at the very summit of their games. Liverpool and Arsenal couldn't get near them. For the two to three games he could be arsed and/or wasn't injured, Barkley was great. He's also a very imposing, physical unit, something which you cannot say about Buendia.
Post by: London Villan on October 28, 2021, 03:49:33 PM
Watkins wasn't one of the problems last season - how we use him this season has created a new problem.
Post by: algy on October 28, 2021, 05:19:16 PM
Post by: Risso on October 28, 2021, 05:30:48 PM
Think it really needs to be Ings OR Watkins, not both (unless we're playing 2 strikers).
So we shouldn't play two strikers, unless we play two strikers?! ;)
Post by: Dante Lavelli on October 28, 2021, 07:59:41 PM
433, high press, and run the opposition into the ground.
Post by: Ian. on October 28, 2021, 08:02:32 PM
The 433 formation seems so obvious to me. It suits way more of our squad and allows us to rotate players (not drop them) so that we can sustain a high intensity for the whole season.Most definitely, I can’t believe we haven’t been.
433, high press, and run the opposition into the ground.
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 28, 2021, 08:02:54 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 28, 2021, 10:42:28 PM
4-2-3-1 was often brilliant last year, when Barkley could be arsed. It can work again with Buendia as, hopefully, a far more consistent version of Barkley, Bailey replacing Quisling and Watkins playing in the El Ghazi/Trezeguet/Traore spot, at least until the latter is fit again.
Buendia isn't a central midfielder. He should be playing behind the centre forward.
In two games, when both Grealish and Barkley were at the very summit of their games. Liverpool and Arsenal couldn't get near them. For the two to three games he could be arsed and/or wasn't injured, Barkley was great. He's also a very imposing, physical unit, something which you cannot say about Buendia.
Buendia gets stuck in more than Barkley ever did, IMO. Watkins/Traore-Buendia-Bailey has the potential to be better, or at least far more consistent, than Grealish-Barkley-Traore/El Ghazi/Trezeguet, I reckon.
I also don't believe that we have bought Ings to not play. Rightly or wrongly, I think we will see Ings and Watkins continue to play together. It isn't working at the moment, it might in this formation. It already showed signs of promise during the brief period we tried it the other day.
Post by: algy on October 29, 2021, 12:25:03 AM
Basically yeah, we should only play 2 strikers when there's 2 strikers on the pitch, if there's one striker we should definitely play with one.Think it really needs to be Ings OR Watkins, not both (unless we're playing 2 strikers).
So we shouldn't play two strikers, unless we play two strikers?! ;)
I think that was my point.
Post by: adrenachrome on October 29, 2021, 01:57:47 AM
Basically yeah, we should only play 2 strikers when there's 2 strikers on the pitch, if there's one striker we should definitely play with one.Think it really needs to be Ings OR Watkins, not both (unless we're playing 2 strikers).
So we shouldn't play two strikers, unless we play two strikers?! ;)
I think that was my point.
The most obvious formation for 2 strikers is 4-4-2, but there are other variants. If you play 3 at the back, then the jig is up. Midfield overrun innit.
I remember when we played 3 strikers up front: Gabby, Carew and Luke Moore. Gabby and Luke did a lot of tracking back, though.
Post by: tony scott on October 29, 2021, 06:11:17 AM
Post by: oldhill_avfc on October 29, 2021, 10:27:38 AM
The muddled thinking was summed up in last week's match where he took two of our most expensive signings off (Buendia/Ings) and we looked much more effective.
Watkins wasn't one of the problems last season - how we use him this season has created a new problem.
Agreed. The only time we looked right was with 3 in midfield and Watkins playing centrally and pulling the centre halves out of shape.
I know ings has scored a couple of goals but he hasn’t impressed in terms of overall performance.
FWIW I’d go with Bailey, Watkins and (based on the opinions of others as I remain totally unconvinced) Buendia up front.
Post by: London Villan on October 29, 2021, 03:10:44 PM
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on January 17, 2022, 12:07:08 PM
I felt sorry for him in the 1st half vs man ure playing on the right flank acting almost like cover for Sanson and Cash. He isn't going to get many goals playing 15-20 metres inside his own half and he certainly didn't become an international patrolling the right touchline. He is still doing a job for the team and his effort is still there, but we're in danger of a confidence player losing his confidence because of him making wrong decisions in areas of the pitch he is unaccustomed to. This will affect him making right decisions in his normal striking role. If it was up to me he'd be playing as the main striker with Buendia and Coutinho (or even Bailey?). As Bailey is injured and Coutinho working towards match fitness get Carney or McGinn into that supportive role behind Ollie. It's just plain common sense if the most of Ollie's talents are going to be utilised rather than wasted.
Post by: tony scott on January 18, 2022, 07:56:31 PM
Post by: brontebilly on January 18, 2022, 09:35:17 PM
It should be Bailey-Watkins-Buendia, but the compromise would be Watkins-Ings-Bailey with the opportunity to change it if it's all going wrong.
Watkins offers very little out wide, even as a tactical change late in games. I guess in the second tier, being strong and fast was enough to dominate a lot of right backs like Alan Hutton one day at Villa Park. But in the prem you need to have a bit more guile about you.
Post by: Pete3206 on January 19, 2022, 11:23:43 AM
If we could I’d cut our losses on Danny in this window, and yes it means having no experienced cover etc
Don't agree. Ings is still a quality player. And having no cover for Watkins makes no sense.
Post by: Footy-Vill on January 19, 2022, 05:51:09 PM
OW has been a mixture this season and been getting up to speed he's job shunted out wide for 60/70 mins then plays central.
What's going to happen when Suarez signs and when Bailey is back
Post by: Drummond on January 19, 2022, 06:28:15 PM
Ings is a far better finisher and proven than Watkins
OW has been a mixture this season and been getting up to speed he's job shunted out wide for 60/70 mins then plays central.
What's going to happen when Suarez signs and when Bailey is back
Who knows, but isn't it nice to have options? Young and hungry on one hand and older and wiser on the other. We've a great blend.
Post by: OzVilla on January 24, 2022, 05:58:27 AM
Post by: Risso on January 24, 2022, 07:50:39 AM
Post by: Ad@m on January 24, 2022, 08:06:20 AM
Give him a run of games with a fit Coutinho and Buendia creating the chances and I reckon he'll get back to his best.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on January 24, 2022, 08:09:41 AM
I like Watkins, love his work rate but he's really not kicked on this season like I hoped he would. Maybe Ings coming in and the subsequent change in formation has thrown him along with becoming a new dad but he really needs to step up in the 2nd half of the season. If he can't i'm happy to see us try and rinse Arsenal come the Summer and look to upgrade.
I'd agree with most of this and would add that I've loved his goals since he joined and maybe the change of manager has also "thrown him"
I'd be interested to know names (discounting the aging Suarez) who would be considered an upgrade on Watkins who is a young international with his best years ahead of him and is a proper team player?
Also why would we even consider selling him to a rival in Arsenal and leave ourselves open to the same ridicule that they are subjected to having sold Martinez to us prematurely?
I'm excited to see what Ollie can do for the rest of the season with Buendia and Coutinho playing just behind him.
Post by: Beard82 on January 24, 2022, 08:41:36 AM
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on January 24, 2022, 08:46:13 AM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on January 24, 2022, 09:32:19 AM
Another couple of goals for Tammy yesterday in a 4-2 Roma away win. 15 goals in all comps this season.
Post by: Gerrin on January 24, 2022, 09:52:47 AM
I think what we needed to do re:cover/competition for Watkins was either buy somebody less experienced and happy to understudy him (Edouard from Celtic maybe?) or someone clearly better than him to go straight in the team - Tammy. To me Ings and Ollie are very much on a level.
Another couple of goals for Tammy yesterday in a 4-2 Roma away win. 15 goals in all comps this season.
Edouard plays for Palace now.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on January 24, 2022, 09:55:24 AM
I think what we needed to do re:cover/competition for Watkins was either buy somebody less experienced and happy to understudy him (Edouard from Celtic maybe?) or someone clearly better than him to go straight in the team - Tammy. To me Ings and Ollie are very much on a level.
Another couple of goals for Tammy yesterday in a 4-2 Roma away win. 15 goals in all comps this season.
Edouard plays for Palace now.
Yeah, I was on about about what we should have done.
Post by: brontebilly on January 24, 2022, 10:02:12 AM
I think Tammy would have been a good one - IMO we should have signed him rather than Ings
Same issue though, Watkins and Abraham can't play in a two.
Watkins has had a poor first half of the season but has been a victim of poor tactical decisions by management. He can still finish strong. Both Kane and Lukaku only have 5 goals each aswell. It's Watkins all round game that worries me, his effort to try and slide that ball past Pickford was pub league. Someone like Dwight Yorke in the past would have side stepped past Pickford and passed the ball into an empty net.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 24, 2022, 10:05:31 AM
I think Tammy would have been a good one - IMO we should have signed him rather than Ings
Same issue though, Watkins and Abraham can't play in a two.
Watkins has had a poor first half of the season but has been a victim of poor tactical decisions by management. He can still finish strong. Both Kane and Lukaku only have 5 goals each aswell. It's Watkins all round game that worries me, his effort to try and slide that ball past Pickford was pub league. Someone like Dwight Yorke in the past would have side stepped past Pickford and passed the ball into an empty net.
That is what worries me about him. You are right, he's been shoehorned into some strange set ups, but I am not sure that explains him missing so many chances.
Post by: Risso on January 24, 2022, 10:07:15 AM
I think Tammy would have been a good one - IMO we should have signed him rather than Ings
Same issue though, Watkins and Abraham can't play in a two.
Watkins has had a poor first half of the season but has been a victim of poor tactical decisions by management. He can still finish strong. Both Kane and Lukaku only have 5 goals each aswell. It's Watkins all round game that worries me, his effort to try and slide that ball past Pickford was pub league. Someone like Dwight Yorke in the past would have side stepped past Pickford and passed the ball into an empty net.
Lukaku's only started 11 games though.
Post by: dicedlam on January 24, 2022, 11:15:48 AM
I think Tammy would have been a good one - IMO we should have signed him rather than Ings
Same issue though, Watkins and Abraham can't play in a two.
Watkins has had a poor first half of the season but has been a victim of poor tactical decisions by management. He can still finish strong. Both Kane and Lukaku only have 5 goals each aswell. It's Watkins all round game that worries me, his effort to try and slide that ball past Pickford was pub league. Someone like Dwight Yorke in the past would have side stepped past Pickford and passed the ball into an empty net.
That is what worries me about him. You are right, he's been shoehorned into some strange set ups, but I am not sure that explains him missing so many chances.
For all the hard graft that he puts in chasing down the channels, my issue with Watkins is he never seems to look up to see if there are better options around him. He seems to of resorted lately to a 'leather it and hope for the best' mentality.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on January 24, 2022, 11:47:18 AM
Post by: LeeB on January 24, 2022, 12:17:37 PM
He's had a dip in form that's for certain but I still believe. That goal he scored v Brighton was a strikers goal so he does have it in him. I also think that Ings alongside him has made him adjust his game and that's had a bearing on his natural role. His touch and decision making has always been a bit suspect, Sometimes very good but sometimes poor but covered up by his constant effort and that's good enough for where we are now.
This for me, give him a few more games in the formation as it was Saturday, against a team not playing rollerball, and he'll be like new.
Still thought I was noticeable again when he went off we couldn't get the ball to stay up the pitch. If there is a question mark about Watkins, the answer is not Danny Ings.
Post by: ez on January 24, 2022, 12:18:13 PM
Post by: Baldy on January 24, 2022, 01:15:22 PM
More focus required but am convinced he will come good again.
Post by: brontebilly on January 24, 2022, 01:16:47 PM
Post by: CT Villan on January 24, 2022, 01:28:05 PM
He is clearly trying too hard currently and the end result of that is bad decisions and poor finishing. Maybe a new top striker coming straight into the team would take the pressure off and allow him to revert to the old Ollie that we know and love.
Sadly, Ings looks like a fish out of water.
Post by: Drummond on January 24, 2022, 01:34:54 PM
Remember too that we've had to strengthen our defence with the new manager and that will also have disrupted him.
We're too quick to write people off sometimes.
Post by: Gerrin on January 24, 2022, 01:40:22 PM
Ings needs to go unfortunately. Good player just not at all what we need. Surely Burnley would give us most of our money back for him this month. Not all their fault but Ings and Chucky hardly got a kick when they came on at the weekend.
I'd personally keep Ings, but make him know he's second choice. The 2 of them cannot player together that's for sure. It's tough on Watkins playing him out wide out of position.
Post by: chrisw1 on January 24, 2022, 01:47:07 PM
Hopefully it will click again for him with the new formation, but if he doesn't do anything in the next couple of games then I'd put him on the bench for a spell to see what Ings can do.
Post by: Hookeysmith on January 24, 2022, 01:57:23 PM
I wouldn't write off Watkins, I like him and hope he's with us for a while. But his finishing is abysmal. We're missing chances top teams would take and it's making a huge difference.
Hopefully it will click again for him with the new formation, but if he doesn't do anything in the next couple of games then I'd put him on the bench for a spell to see what Ings can do.
Totally agree with this
Post by: Risso on January 24, 2022, 02:37:39 PM
I wouldn't write off Watkins, I like him and hope he's with us for a while. But his finishing is abysmal.
Bit of a problem for top level strikers, that.
Post by: German James on January 24, 2022, 02:54:47 PM
As for Ings, he's a proven striker who probably thought he was making a step-up in his career. I doubt he thinks that any more, but I don't think it's all his fault. He's not getting the sort of service he needs and it doesn't look like Gerrard has any interest in building a team to supply him with it.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 24, 2022, 02:57:36 PM
I wouldn't write off Watkins, I like him and hope he's with us for a while. But his finishing is abysmal.
Bit of a problem for top level strikers, that.
I was going to say the same - not having a go at chrisw here - plenty of people saying he's really good but his finishing is terrible. Surely that's a dealbreaker?
"I've got a really fast car but the brakes don't work"
Post by: Risso on January 24, 2022, 03:00:08 PM
I feel sorry for Watkins and Ings. Ollie isn't as good as we thought he was (yet?) and clearly misses Joe. Or rather, the team as it was with Joe in it. His finishing simply isn't good enough for the vital role he's playing. Can't fault his workrate otherwise.
As for Ings, he's a proven striker who probably thought he was making a step-up in his career. I doubt he thinks that any more, but I don't think it's all his fault. He's not getting the sort of service he needs and it doesn't look like Gerrard has any interest in building a team to supply him with it.
My impression of Southampton is that for the last couple of seasons, the team was built around Ward-Prowse feeding Ings, a bit like us with everything going through Grealish.
Post by: WarszaVillan on January 24, 2022, 03:00:26 PM
Post by: olaftab on January 24, 2022, 03:02:27 PM
Post by: Chris Smith on January 24, 2022, 03:03:16 PM
I wouldn't write off Watkins, I like him and hope he's with us for a while. But his finishing is abysmal.
Bit of a problem for top level strikers, that.
Calling his finishing abysmal is way over the top. He’s scored 21 in 55 appearances for us which works out at 1 every 2.6 games.
Post by: Risso on January 24, 2022, 03:06:43 PM
Watkins has scored the same number of League goals as Lukaku, Greenwood and Kane so far this season.
So what?
Lukaka has only started 11 games. Kane was sulking about not being sold and hardly broke a sweat for the first half a dozen games at least. Other players not doing as well as expected doesn't really say anything about Watkins does it?
Post by: German James on January 24, 2022, 03:08:44 PM
That's my feeling too.I feel sorry for Watkins and Ings. Ollie isn't as good as we thought he was (yet?) and clearly misses Joe. Or rather, the team as it was with Joe in it. His finishing simply isn't good enough for the vital role he's playing. Can't fault his workrate otherwise.
As for Ings, he's a proven striker who probably thought he was making a step-up in his career. I doubt he thinks that any more, but I don't think it's all his fault. He's not getting the sort of service he needs and it doesn't look like Gerrard has any interest in building a team to supply him with it.
My impression of Southampton is that for the last couple of seasons, the team was built around Ward-Prowse feeding Ings, a bit like us with everything going through Grealish.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on January 24, 2022, 03:15:18 PM
He offers so much more than his goals. He works tirelessly for the team with bundles of energy. Opposition defenders must be kn-ckered at the end of games playing against him. Our midfielders are scoring recently because of his presence. As we're a relatively small team his height is advantageous when defending set pieces. How many times did he defend the front post successfully against Everton's pub team?
He's a star player with a star attitude who I'd rather was in our team than against us. Keep plugging away Ollie and the goals will come.
Post by: Smithy on January 24, 2022, 03:17:13 PM
For comparison, Jamie Vardy is on 25%, Firminio 26%, Salah 20% and England captain Harry Kane is at 8%.
Across a season, most top strikers are well into the teens, and the season's top performers can be well into the 20s.
And before anyone reads TOO much into these numbers, here's a stat for you. Last season Keinan Davis had a better shots-to-goals ratio than Mason Greenwood.
Post by: OCD on January 24, 2022, 03:18:54 PM
Post by: LeeB on January 24, 2022, 03:20:55 PM
Ollie's goal ratio for Villa is on a par with that at other clubs he's been at (approx 1 in 3).
He offers so much more than his goals. He works tirelessly for the team with bundles of energy. Opposition defenders must be kn-ckered at the end of games playing against him. Our midfielders are scoring recently because of his presence. As we're a relatively small team his height is advantageous when defending set pieces. How many times did he defend the front post successfully against Everton's pub team?
He's a star player with a star attitude who I'd rather was in our team than against us. Keep plugging away Ollie and the goals will come.
Amen brother.
Post by: LeeB on January 24, 2022, 03:23:30 PM
I know lots of people don't like stats, and insist they can be misleading, but Ollie's shots-to-goals conversion rate this season is 12.8%. Last season it was 14.4%. Ings is at 19% this season.
For comparison, Jamie Vardy is on 25%, Firminio 26%, Salah 20% and England captain Harry Kane is at 8%.
Across a season, most top strikers are well into the teens, and the season's top performers can be well into the 20s.
And before anyone reads TOO much into these numbers, here's a stat for you. Last season Keinan Davis had a better shots-to-goals ratio than Mason Greenwood.
That last part is not hard to believe. As talented as he is, Greenwood plays like a 10 year old, gets the ball, runs and tries to shoot whilst completely oblivious to his teammates.
Post by: Nev on January 24, 2022, 03:23:39 PM
Messing around with the formation and trying to make it with 2 upfront really hasn't helped him this season. If we keep the set-up as we had it on Saturday I think we'll start to see the best of him.
If anything, he's somewhat out of practice in that role and it showed on Saturday so I think a few more games and he will come up to speed. He still had a couple of decent chances, albeit one was offside.
Post by: Moonraker on January 24, 2022, 03:24:26 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on January 24, 2022, 03:44:33 PM
I probably should have phrased it 'his finishing can be abysmal'I wouldn't write off Watkins, I like him and hope he's with us for a while. But his finishing is abysmal.
Bit of a problem for top level strikers, that.
Calling his finishing abysmal is way over the top. He’s scored 21 in 55 appearances for us which works out at 1 every 2.6 games.
It just seems to me that he's missing very good chances most games. Maybe I've become a bit over sensitized to it, but I've found hima very frustrating watch this season.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on January 24, 2022, 03:50:30 PM
https://twitter.com/brooksytv/status/1485345253250924544?s=12
Post by: Pat Mustard on January 24, 2022, 04:09:01 PM
Post by: brontebilly on January 24, 2022, 07:44:25 PM
I probably should have phrased it 'his finishing can be abysmal'I wouldn't write off Watkins, I like him and hope he's with us for a while. But his finishing is abysmal.
Bit of a problem for top level strikers, that.
Calling his finishing abysmal is way over the top. He’s scored 21 in 55 appearances for us which works out at 1 every 2.6 games.
It just seems to me that he's missing very good chances most games. Maybe I've become a bit over sensitized to it, but I've found hima very frustrating watch this season.
At least he is getting the chances. Ings doesn't really. When they play together neither of them do.
Post by: N'ZMAV on January 24, 2022, 08:10:44 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 24, 2022, 08:24:10 PM
Post by: Ian. on January 24, 2022, 08:34:16 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 24, 2022, 09:20:01 PM
A bit like Buendia, you don’t need to write a player off when they’re going through a bad run. Watkins is a fine player and will find his form.
Post by: Drummond on January 25, 2022, 08:55:39 AM
Last year he was being raved about as the best thing since sliced bread. Give the guy a fucking break.
Post by: PaulTheVillan on January 25, 2022, 11:16:10 AM
We've the 9th highest goals scored tally in the division, and two of the teams ahead of us have a worse defensive record. Watkins is part of that. He causes defences all sorts of issues, and is just having a dry patch, not helped by a number of his appearances being wide and many others in what most people deemed to be a shit team earlier in the season.
Last year he was being raved about as the best thing since sliced bread. Give the guy a fucking break.
*applauds*
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 25, 2022, 01:01:35 PM
Post by: olaftab on January 25, 2022, 01:49:36 PM
It does. You said "for a £30M striker" whereas other two are £100M strikers. Lukaku's 4 in 11 (that he has started in ) is similar to Watkins ratio.Watkins has scored the same number of League goals as Lukaku, Greenwood and Kane so far this season.
So what?
Lukaka has only started 11 games. Kane was sulking about not being sold and hardly broke a sweat for the first half a dozen games at least. Other players not doing as well as expected doesn't really say anything about Watkins does it?
Post by: Nunkin1965 on January 25, 2022, 01:55:09 PM
For such a talented player, Greenwood is completely predictable.I know lots of people don't like stats, and insist they can be misleading, but Ollie's shots-to-goals conversion rate this season is 12.8%. Last season it was 14.4%. Ings is at 19% this season.
For comparison, Jamie Vardy is on 25%, Firminio 26%, Salah 20% and England captain Harry Kane is at 8%.
Across a season, most top strikers are well into the teens, and the season's top performers can be well into the 20s.
And before anyone reads TOO much into these numbers, here's a stat for you. Last season Keinan Davis had a better shots-to-goals ratio than Mason Greenwood.
That last part is not hard to believe. As talented as he is, Greenwood plays like a 10 year old, gets the ball, runs and tries to shoot whilst completely oblivious to his teammates.
He must be a nightmare to play with.
Post by: chrisw1 on January 25, 2022, 02:14:30 PM
I'll give him a fucking break and continue to support him (as I always have). But when discussing our teams attributes I don't think it's unreasonable to point this out.
UTV.
Post by: Hookeysmith on January 25, 2022, 02:34:07 PM
He works his socks off and is a great out ball for us to lump over the top.
He keeps the whole back line of defenders on their toes as he is very mobile and works the entire back line
His pressing is as good as anything in the league
Not so good
He is a scorer of very good goals rather than being a very good goal scorer
He often makes pretty poor decisions - shoots when he should pass and visa versa.
He has no real pace or skill to get past a man in a one on one
His trapping ability at times is abysmal and usually is followed by a teams counter attacking us.
I am not suggesting he be binned but he needs to evolve and develop further or i can see that we may need a bit more polish up front
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on January 25, 2022, 08:01:37 PM
We've the 9th highest goals scored tally in the division, and two of the teams ahead of us have a worse defensive record. Watkins is part of that. He causes defences all sorts of issues, and is just having a dry patch, not helped by a number of his appearances being wide and many others in what most people deemed to be a shit team earlier in the season.
Last year he was being raved about as the best thing since sliced bread. Give the guy a fucking break.
To be fair dry patches are a worry for a lot of blokes.
Post by: Beard82 on January 25, 2022, 10:07:36 PM
wordWe've the 9th highest goals scored tally in the division, and two of the teams ahead of us have a worse defensive record. Watkins is part of that. He causes defences all sorts of issues, and is just having a dry patch, not helped by a number of his appearances being wide and many others in what most people deemed to be a shit team earlier in the season.
Last year he was being raved about as the best thing since sliced bread. Give the guy a fucking break.
To be fair dry patches are a worry for a lot of blokes.
Post by: Risso on January 25, 2022, 11:13:29 PM
It does. You said "for a £30M striker" whereas other two are £100M strikers. Lukaku's 4 in 11 (that he has started in ) is similar to Watkins ratio.Watkins has scored the same number of League goals as Lukaku, Greenwood and Kane so far this season.
So what?
Lukaka has only started 11 games. Kane was sulking about not being sold and hardly broke a sweat for the first half a dozen games at least. Other players not doing as well as expected doesn't really say anything about Watkins does it?
Lukaku has 5 league goals in 11 starts. That very obviously isn't a similar ratio to 5 goals in 17 starts.
Post by: eamonn on January 25, 2022, 11:39:18 PM
Post by: Ads on January 25, 2022, 11:53:01 PM
Post by: Breezeblock on January 26, 2022, 12:03:11 AM
Post by: robbo1874 on January 26, 2022, 12:40:20 AM
Post by: robbo1874 on January 26, 2022, 12:55:16 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on January 26, 2022, 08:58:11 AM
The other thing about Watkins is that he’s had probably 6-8 goals ruled out by VAR? whereas in years gone by, those goals would have stood. Add to that the amount of times he’s hit the fkn bar when it would’ve been easier to score. He could be probably 12 or so goals better off over this season and last.This is part of the problem.
Hopefully he'll go on a run now with a settled team and Coutinho and Buendia behind him and we'll all be arguing Arsenal will have to pay £100m if they want him etc...
Post by: Smithy on January 26, 2022, 01:42:47 PM
I love Ollie. He's a grafter and never gives up even when he's having a mare. Most exciting striker i've seen down Villa Park since Dwight Yorke.
And that's the rub. I think you could get a better finisher in the team than Ollie, but I'm not sure you could get a harder worker. To find someone who works as hard as he does, AND is a better finisher than him would be almost impossible in today's market. Certainly not for less than stupid money.
I think when he's part of a front three that 'clicks' over the next half a dozen games I could see him going on a scoring run to get him back to last season's total.
As an aside, given the preferred 11 these days, who would take our penalty if we got one?
Post by: Drummond on January 26, 2022, 02:17:25 PM
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on January 26, 2022, 02:22:18 PM
Post by: Allan C on January 26, 2022, 02:42:29 PM
I love Ollie. He's a grafter and never gives up even when he's having a mare. Most exciting striker i've seen down Villa Park since Dwight Yorke.People should stop making comparisons with Yorke because more often than not the end result was a goal with him
Post by: Smithy on January 26, 2022, 02:56:34 PM
I love Ollie. He's a grafter and never gives up even when he's having a mare. Most exciting striker i've seen down Villa Park since Dwight Yorke.People should stop making comparisons with Yorke because more often than not the end result was a goal with him
Yorke was a brilliant player for us, a unique talent, and a scorer of great goals - and he brought a lot more to the team than just his goals, but he was a VERY different player to Ollie, apart from the fact they were both forwards.
However, Yorke's best-ever league goals total for us was 17, twice, in the years we finished 4th and 5th. Ollie got 14 in a team that finished 11th. Plus those disallowed by VAR that would have counted in any other year.
Ollie isn't close to the level Yorke was at his best for us, but let's not rewrite history to make out Yorke was some sort of unstoppable goal machine.
I think Ollie would beat Yorke's best goal-scoring year in the league if we were challenging for the top 4, but he'll never be the sort of entertaining 'get-off-your-seat' player that Yorke was.
Post by: Risso on January 26, 2022, 03:13:41 PM
Post by: Allan C on January 26, 2022, 03:25:35 PM
I love Ollie. He's a grafter and never gives up even when he's having a mare. Most exciting striker i've seen down Villa Park since Dwight Yorke.People should stop making comparisons with Yorke because more often than not the end result was a goal with him
Yorke was a brilliant player for us, a unique talent, and a scorer of great goals - and he brought a lot more to the team than just his goals, but he was a VERY different player to Ollie, apart from the fact they were both forwards.
However, Yorke's best-ever league goals total for us was 17, twice, in the years we finished 4th and 5th. Ollie got 14 in a team that finished 11th. Plus those disallowed by VAR that would have counted in any other year.
Ollie isn't close to the level Yorke was at his best for us, but let's not rewrite history to make out Yorke was some sort of unstoppable goal machine.
I think Ollie would beat Yorke's best goal-scoring year in the league if we were challenging for the top 4, but he'll never be the sort of entertaining 'get-off-your-seat' player that Yorke was.
I personally wasn’t talking about his goal scoring although I thought that was pretty good, more the excitement level when he got the ball. That usually ended in a goal for us
Post by: Smithy on January 26, 2022, 03:33:27 PM
Carew was miles better than Watkins.
But again, Carew never scored as many league goals as Ollie did last year, and Carew played in a side that finished much higher and has wingers constantly chucking balls in for him to attack. I'm not disagreeing with your point about who is/was the better player. Just that goals AND contribution to the team effort have to factor into it when it comes to assessing forwards, in the same way that goals alone counts against players like Keinan Davis.
I think Ollie can be a great player for us, even in the 12-14 league goal a season range, as long as his efforts leading the line are contributing to us getting goals from elsewhere in the team. Man City walked the league last year and no one got more than 13 league goals for them. Chelsea finished 4th and qualified for the champions league and their top league scorer got 7 goals (and he was the penalty taker).
A 20+ goal a season striker would be amazing, and I'd LOVE us to have one, but they're incredibly rare, and you really don't "need" one to be successful in the modern game. If your set-up is such that your attacking play means any one of five players could be on the end of an attacking move (as it seems with us right now), then I'd be perfectly happy seeing the main striker with 10-12 goals, and the other supporting attacking players getting 3 or 4 more each across the season.
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 26, 2022, 07:55:42 PM
Post by: brontebilly on January 26, 2022, 08:33:20 PM
On his day Carew was unplayable.
Same could be said of Watkins...Liverpool and Arsenal last season for example. Carew was a cult hero for sure and on his day brilliant. But he was in and out of the team for various reasons at times. Watkins for his first season in the league/with us performed in the main brilliantly. Hardly missed a minute for us either.
Yorke was different class. He didn't have a player remotely in Grealish's class for laying on opportunities like Watkins had last season either. My rose tinted glasses are telling me Yorke laid on plenty of goals for Savo and others in his time but perhaps the stats tell a different tale?
Post by: paul_e on January 26, 2022, 09:09:39 PM
Carew was miles better than Watkins.
But again, Carew never scored as many league goals as Ollie did last year, and Carew played in a side that finished much higher and has wingers constantly chucking balls in for him to attack. I'm not disagreeing with your point about who is/was the better player. Just that goals AND contribution to the team effort have to factor into it when it comes to assessing forwards, in the same way that goals alone counts against players like Keinan Davis.
I think Ollie can be a great player for us, even in the 12-14 league goal a season range, as long as his efforts leading the line are contributing to us getting goals from elsewhere in the team. Man City walked the league last year and no one got more than 13 league goals for them. Chelsea finished 4th and qualified for the champions league and their top league scorer got 7 goals (and he was the penalty taker).
A 20+ goal a season striker would be amazing, and I'd LOVE us to have one, but they're incredibly rare, and you really don't "need" one to be successful in the modern game. If your set-up is such that your attacking play means any one of five players could be on the end of an attacking move (as it seems with us right now), then I'd be perfectly happy seeing the main striker with 10-12 goals, and the other supporting attacking players getting 3 or 4 more each across the season.
pretty much this, I think you have to judge the attack as a unit when it comes to goals, if the mix of Watkins, Ings, Coutinho, Buendia, Bailey and Traore get 35-40 and we get 20ish from the rest of the team then we'll be in the mix for Europe. Our problem right now is that the whole group is behind on that target, goals from defence and midfield are fine though and I suspect we'll make that 20 easily.
Post by: Risso on January 26, 2022, 09:31:59 PM
pretty much this, I think you have to judge the attack as a unit when it comes to goals, if the mix of Watkins, Ings, Coutinho, Buendia, Bailey and Traore get 35-40 and we get 20ish from the rest of the team then we'll be in the mix for Europe. Our problem right now is that the whole group is behind on that target, goals from defence and midfield are fine though and I suspect we'll make that 20 easily.
Hmmm, no so sure.
The forwards are really going to have to go some to get anywhere near that. So far with 21 games out of 38 down, as a bunch they're on 14. Even to get the low end of that estimate (35), they would need 21 goals out of 17 games. I reckon Watkins will end up on about 9 or 10, so 4 or 5 more, Coutinho could get half a dozen maybe when up to speed, and Buendia another 3 or 4. Obviously Bailey is anuknown at this stage depending on if/when he's fit again.
The problem area is midfield. 3 each for McGinn and Ramsey, and that's it. Not too bad for them personally, but we could do with the midfield as a whole at least doubling that. It's why we need that holding midfielder, to let the attacking midfielders (and the other forwards) do a lot more attacking.
Post by: john e on January 26, 2022, 09:46:40 PM
my biggest worry about him being a top 6 sort of striker is his touch
it’s not very good and it’s not something you particularly learn it’s something you either have or don’t
Sure you can improve on it but you know what I mean
Post by: adrenachrome on January 26, 2022, 10:31:30 PM
there’s a lot of good things to admire about Watkins, his work ethic, he’s good for a few goals every season, good team player, and as others have said on his day he can be a real handful
my biggest worry about him being a top 6 sort of striker is his touch
it’s not very good and it’s not something you particularly learn it’s something you either have or don’t
Sure you can improve on it but you know what I mean
I agree, but his first touch for the most recent chance was immaculate.
It's what followed the the touch. I'm beginning to sound like a character in Seinfeld, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.
Post by: olaftab on January 26, 2022, 11:14:21 PM
Lukaku has 5 league goals in 11 starts. That very obviously isn't a similar ratio to 5 goals in 17 starts.He has played 16 League games this season. 5 of those as subs. Has scored 5 goal including 3 in 2 games against us.
Romelu Lukaku stats
Soccer player
CHELSEA
Premier League
Year 2021/22
Matches 16
Goals 5
Assists 0
Yellow 0
Red 0
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on January 27, 2022, 12:07:40 AM
Lukaku has 5 league goals in 11 starts. That very obviously isn't a similar ratio to 5 goals in 17 starts.He has played 16 League games this season. 5 of those as subs. Has scored 5 goal including 3 in 2 games against us.
Romelu Lukaku stats
Soccer player
CHELSEA
Premier League
Year 2021/22
Matches 16
Goals 5
Assists 0
Yellow 0
Red 0
That hasn't added anything as Risso has already stated it was 11 starts. The whole Lukaku comparison is pointless anyway.
Post by: olaftab on January 27, 2022, 12:19:54 AM
Post by: aldridgeboy on January 27, 2022, 12:50:49 AM
I love Ollie. He's a grafter and never gives up even when he's having a mare. Most exciting striker i've seen down Villa Park since Dwight Yorke.People should stop making comparisons with Yorke because more often than not the end result was a goal with him
Yorke was a brilliant player for us, a unique talent, and a scorer of great goals - and he brought a lot more to the team than just his goals, but he was a VERY different player to Ollie, apart from the fact they were both forwards.
However, Yorke's best-ever league goals total for us was 17, twice, in the years we finished 4th and 5th. Ollie got 14 in a team that finished 11th. Plus those disallowed by VAR that would have counted in any other year.
Ollie isn't close to the level Yorke was at his best for us, but let's not rewrite history to make out Yorke was some sort of unstoppable goal machine.
I think Ollie would beat Yorke's best goal-scoring year in the league if we were challenging for the top 4, but he'll never be the sort of entertaining 'get-off-your-seat' player that Yorke was.
I think thats a great summary
Post by: Smithy on January 27, 2022, 11:32:02 AM
pretty much this, I think you have to judge the attack as a unit when it comes to goals, if the mix of Watkins, Ings, Coutinho, Buendia, Bailey and Traore get 35-40 and we get 20ish from the rest of the team then we'll be in the mix for Europe. Our problem right now is that the whole group is behind on that target, goals from defence and midfield are fine though and I suspect we'll make that 20 easily.
Hmmm, no so sure.
The forwards are really going to have to go some to get anywhere near that. So far with 21 games out of 38 down, as a bunch they're on 14. Even to get the low end of that estimate (35), they would need 21 goals out of 17 games. I reckon Watkins will end up on about 9 or 10, so 4 or 5 more, Coutinho could get half a dozen maybe when up to speed, and Buendia another 3 or 4. Obviously Bailey is anuknown at this stage depending on if/when he's fit again.
The problem area is midfield. 3 each for McGinn and Ramsey, and that's it. Not too bad for them personally, but we could do with the midfield as a whole at least doubling that. It's why we need that holding midfielder, to let the attacking midfielders (and the other forwards) do a lot more attacking.
Without wanting to go all 'Moneyball' on it, and assuming your defence is okay (not spectacular, just okay), then you typically need around 60-65 goals in a season to challenge for Europe, and near 70 or more to challenge for Champions League places. How you get those goals is up to you. You can look to your centre-forwards to get you 20+ (very rare), or you can spread it around a bit across the whole of the attacking unit - which for us is realistically 5 players on the pitch at any one time, and probably 8/9 in the squad. Plus the defenders chipping in with a couple from set-pieces.
I'd love us to get a 20+ a season goal scorer to spearhead our attack, but I also don't think it's absolutely essential to get where we want to be. The way we play currently it's more important that our central striker is contributing to the whole attacking unit, while also chipping in with a few goals. You can obviously argue that Ollie doesn't contribute enough to the attacking unit (his control lets him down sometimes so moves break down, and his decision making is sometimes suspect), but I think he's a really good fit for the type of player we need in his position, given the way Gerrard wants to play.
Let's see how he looks after half a dozen games and a couple of months of training as a front three of Coutinho/Watkins/Buendia - I suspect that at some point it will 'click', but if it doesn't I don't think Gerrard will think twice about replacing him.
Post by: Footy-Vill on February 09, 2022, 11:08:57 PM
When it's not working should be hauled off.
Ings is the best striker goal scorer and against likes of that defence I think he should have at least had some game time if not played a half.
OW beefed up a bit , has amazing work ethic but not an once was a goal threat.. he needs some one around him and some pace or power Archer and Davis are away , Bailey not yet ready but Ings could have come on second half perhaps
Post by: achilles on February 09, 2022, 11:16:21 PM
Ings certainly couldn't have done any worse.
Post by: Footy-Vill on February 09, 2022, 11:30:54 PM
Watkins doesnt suit that for me and would be better off playing off left and Coutinho in the middle 3.
Post by: Nii Lamptey on February 09, 2022, 11:39:21 PM
With supply from the likes of Coutinho and Buendia, as an England International he should be eating defences like that for breakfast- Didn’t get a look in.
Ings needs a stab up front. At least it’ll feel like we have 11 villa players on the pitch.
*Actually, I take that back. You can see he has the work ethic and is putting the effort in, but he is so far from looking like our main goal threat, it’s untrue. On that showing, Ings has to start the next game.
Post by: Footy-Vill on February 09, 2022, 11:48:13 PM
Post by: brontebilly on February 09, 2022, 11:52:23 PM
I just don't know where the Watkins of last season has gone as we now have a clone who looks totally out of touch!
Ings certainly couldn't have done any worse.
Ings has been dreadful for us though. He hardly got a kick when he came on v Everton, granted we had stopped trying to play at that point. Any game he played up top with Watkins he had very little impact.
His best game for us was v Brentford I think, combined very well with Buendia. Watkins was that bad again tonight I think Gerrard has to go with Ings the next day. But it's getting to the stage where we need to look at other options.
Post by: Footy-Vill on February 09, 2022, 11:59:54 PM
I just don't know where the Watkins of last season has gone as we now have a clone who looks totally out of touch!
Ings certainly couldn't have done any worse.
Ings has been dreadful for us though. He hardly got a kick when he came on v Everton, granted we had stopped trying to play at that point. Any game he played up top with Watkins he had very little impact.
His best game for us was v Brentford I think, combined very well with Buendia. Watkins was that bad again tonight I think Gerrard has to go with Ings the next day. But it's getting to the stage where we need to look at other options.
Have to play a system and style that plays to strengths of these players or at least sometimes try and play different way to the only way Gerrard wnsts to play one way
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 10, 2022, 12:35:27 AM
Post by: olaftab on February 10, 2022, 12:41:10 AM
Post by: Risso on February 10, 2022, 12:49:08 AM
As crap as Watkins has been this season and let's face it, he's been utter crap, he's hardly had a great deal of service. He's a greedy striker who when he's not scoring isn't happy. Yes he runs around a lot but then so does my sister's labrador.
He was woeful tonight, in our strongest line up. Looks like a Championship striker struggling to make the step up.
Post by: UK Redsox on February 10, 2022, 12:51:19 AM
Does not seem to be on the same wavelength as other player around him. Often not in the correct position, lacking anticipation and too slow to react to a developing situation. There is something wrong with him at the moment.
Whilst JJ have clicked with Phil straight away, Ollie doesn’t seem to be able to read what Phil’s going to do
Post by: adrenachrome on February 10, 2022, 01:03:09 AM
Does not seem to be on the same wavelength as other player around him. Often not in the correct position, lacking anticipation and too slow to react to a developing situation. There is something wrong with him at the moment.
Whilst JJ have clicked with Phil straight away, Ollie doesn’t seem to be able to read what Phil’s going to do
Julian Joachim was quick, but this is a bit of a stretch.
Post by: Scott Nielsen on February 10, 2022, 03:00:49 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 10, 2022, 07:02:18 AM
Watkins is not just poor this season but he seems to actively resent anyone else scoring.
I think he reacted like that last season too to be fair.
Nevertheless I suspect he knows he’s struggling and is confidence is way down. I have no doubt he’s a good player, but he needs to find his spark.
Post by: algy on February 10, 2022, 07:24:15 AM
Julian Joachim only stopped playing during the first lockdown. Made a bit of a second career for himself as a journeyman striker for non-league clubs.Does not seem to be on the same wavelength as other player around him. Often not in the correct position, lacking anticipation and too slow to react to a developing situation. There is something wrong with him at the moment.
Whilst JJ have clicked with Phil straight away, Ollie doesn’t seem to be able to read what Phil’s going to do
Julian Joachim was quick, but this is a bit of a stretch.
Post by: PaulTheVillan on February 10, 2022, 08:16:05 AM
At times last night I saw the 11 on his back and thought I was watching a former number 11
Post by: AV82EC on February 10, 2022, 08:56:22 AM
Post by: cdward on February 10, 2022, 09:00:34 AM
Post by: eamonn on February 10, 2022, 09:32:55 AM
Post by: Footy-Vill on February 10, 2022, 09:40:25 AM
We need players far closer to him and when he does have that he can really play some quality football.
The goal threat as a whole is an issue not just Watkins. We don't infer the shots and force opposing goal keepers into saves.
It's 3 goals yesterday yes but not much else telling from open play.
Digne had a great opportunity created by Mings and there is a lot expected in the wide areas to provide which is frankly lacking hence Digne coming in.
Also our final ball particularly Buendia is lacking. Coutinho brought in to improve that and with Bailey to be a must coming into the team there is hope Watkins can get some joy.
Personally I have him drop wide some games and ings up front with the magician in the middle 3.
Post by: django on February 10, 2022, 09:51:44 AM
He was probably hoping/expecting to improve on his goal return this season and I reckon he knows he’s under a bit of pressure and his confidence is low.
I know he’s not scored for a while but I thought his performances were still good up until the two Man U games, although his effectiveness has generally been nullified by the ineffective partnership with Ings. After a while the lack of goals becomes an issue in terms of confidence however well you’re playing and that seems to be where he is at the moment.
Post by: chrisw1 on February 10, 2022, 10:03:25 AM
I feel he's been mostly poor all season and showed nothing again last night. I'll be dissapointed if Ings doesn't start the next game.
Post by: Simon Page on February 10, 2022, 10:12:25 AM
Post by: Ad@m on February 10, 2022, 10:21:54 AM
While readying myself for witness protection, Watkins had a hand in all three goals yesterday. First one he makes a forward run that takes both centre backs away, creating space for Coutinho, then drops off giving himself a clear sight of goal and Coutinho the option of a pass. Second he stretches the defence by shifting wide right, creating space and giving an alternative pass option. Third his run opens up the entire right side for Ramsey to have fun in. I get he's not scoring enough, but it's clear he's being asked to stretch defences and, last night at least, that's what he did. Not claiming he was MotM, just that he's not playing as badly as is being suggested.
All of which is true, but when the ball was anywhere near him he looked miles off the pace.
He's definitely not the player he was last season. I'm not sure what's gone wrong. It's not a disaster as he's still helping the team, as you rightly point out, but he's not progressing how we all hoped.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on February 10, 2022, 10:29:04 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on February 10, 2022, 10:30:28 AM
While readying myself for witness protection, Watkins had a hand in all three goals yesterday. First one he makes a forward run that takes both centre backs away, creating space for Coutinho, then drops off giving himself a clear sight of goal and Coutinho the option of a pass. Second he stretches the defence by shifting wide right, creating space and giving an alternative pass option. Third his run opens up the entire right side for Ramsey to have fun in. I get he's not scoring enough, but it's clear he's being asked to stretch defences and, last night at least, that's what he did. Not claiming he was MotM, just that he's not playing as badly as is being suggested.
Agreed, but that does suggest that he's turning into a faster version of Davis
Post by: chrisw1 on February 10, 2022, 10:44:08 AM
While readying myself for witness protection, Watkins had a hand in all three goals yesterday. First one he makes a forward run that takes both centre backs away, creating space for Coutinho, then drops off giving himself a clear sight of goal and Coutinho the option of a pass. Second he stretches the defence by shifting wide right, creating space and giving an alternative pass option. Third his run opens up the entire right side for Ramsey to have fun in. I get he's not scoring enough, but it's clear he's being asked to stretch defences and, last night at least, that's what he did. Not claiming he was MotM, just that he's not playing as badly as is being suggested.Right, I've rewatched. He has no involvement in the first, his movement doesn't shift a defender and has no impact on the player facing up Coutiinho. For Ramseys first Watkins isn't involved in the slightest. He doesn't even break into a sprint to try and get into position for a pass, rebound or deflection.
He makes a fantastic run for the third which undoubtedly made the space for Ramsey. So I'll give you one out of three.
Post by: john e on February 10, 2022, 10:44:13 AM
Post by: Simon Page on February 10, 2022, 11:03:18 AM
Right, I've rewatched. He has no involvement in the first, his movement doesn't shift a defender and has no impact on the player facing up Coutiinho. For Ramseys first Watkins isn't involved in the slightest. He doesn't even break into a sprint to try and get into position for a pass, rebound or deflection.
He makes a fantastic run for the third which undoubtedly made the space for Ramsey. So I'll give you one out of three.
On the first, the defender "facing" Coutinho is miles away and pointing to Watkins to tell his partner to cover him - which he doesn't do effectively. The pair at the back don't know whether to get close or drop off. For me, on the second he takes the right position and - whether because of that or just coincidence - the Leeds defence are shifting to their left leaving acres of space which Coutinho and Ramsey exploit brilliantly. What I'm saying is the team is set up to open spaces for the likes of Coutinho to play world class passes into which requires Watkins to stretch the back four. I don't know for certain what he is being asked to do, but suspect it's that. We see time and again space being opened up because of the way the forward players interact and make runs.
I'd love him to score more, and he's not doing what we have seen him do previously. I just think he's being over-criticised to the extent that his good work is getting ignored.
Post by: Small Rodent on February 10, 2022, 11:07:40 AM
He just wants to score. A lot of the goals we score are because of his good movement pulling players out of position with a good viable run and our excellent number 10s spotting a better placed player instead to score. Watkins is just disappointed not to get the chance to score.
Same happened to Morelos at Rangers when they adopted the new system. (I read it somewhere).
As long as the team score, there is nothing to worry about.
Post by: caster troy on February 10, 2022, 11:43:42 AM
Last night I felt his link up play was ok, and his movement/pressuring did lead to chances or the opposition conceding possession. My biggest complaint was that two or three times decent balls came into the box for him and he was a yard off the right position to knock them in. I'm totally guessing here but maybe the lack of service has meant he's lost faith the ball will come into those areas, and he's lost that cutting edge to get on the end of those crosses. Fingers crossed with Digne being a much better crosser than Targett, and Cash seemingly improving his crossing too we will see Ollie back among the goals.
Post by: Risso on February 10, 2022, 12:15:33 PM
Post by: supertom on February 10, 2022, 04:00:33 PM
But right now, he's not doing the things he's probably in the side to do, which is keep the ball, run the channels and bring our midfield into play and do that as much as scoring himself. He has made some space, but Ings would do that just by making runs.
For me Ings could potentially be having a field day playing ahead of Beundia and Countino. In theory you don't need the front man holding things up effectively, if one of our attacking mids does that. Ings is wily when he gets between CH and FB. He makes good runs and will finish a chance. He'll also make more intelligent runs. He'll touch the ball a lot less than Watkins (generally) but right now, Watkins isn't getting much of the ball either.
Ings' turn. In theory he could be fired up and a bit more determined to take his chance. Likewise Watkins when he gets a shot again. Ings' last start up top by himself was his best game for us.
Post by: Richard E on February 10, 2022, 04:18:19 PM
Post by: JUAN PABLO on February 10, 2022, 04:18:42 PM
Post by: Rigadon on February 10, 2022, 06:47:30 PM
It might be purely a form thing. He's too good and too young to write off and I like Ollie a lot.
But right now, he's not doing the things he's probably in the side to do, which is keep the ball, run the channels and bring our midfield into play and do that as much as scoring himself. He has made some space, but Ings would do that just by making runs.
For me Ings could potentially be having a field day playing ahead of Beundia and Countino. In theory you don't need the front man holding things up effectively, if one of our attacking mids does that. Ings is wily when he gets between CH and FB. He makes good runs and will finish a chance. He'll also make more intelligent runs. He'll touch the ball a lot less than Watkins (generally) but right now, Watkins isn't getting much of the ball either.
Ings' turn. In theory he could be fired up and a bit more determined to take his chance. Likewise Watkins when he gets a shot again. Ings' last start up top by himself was his best game for us.
Agree with all of this and I'd be amazed not to see Ings start v Newcastle
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on February 10, 2022, 06:57:52 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 10, 2022, 07:08:18 PM
There were a couple of balls last night that went all the way across their six yard box which I would have fancied Ings to have got himself on the end of.
I said as much to my brother at the time, that if Ings had been on the pitch, one or both of those two would have been put away.
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 10, 2022, 07:28:18 PM
Post by: Ads on February 10, 2022, 08:23:48 PM
Post by: ez on February 10, 2022, 08:31:56 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on February 10, 2022, 08:36:47 PM
Post by: London Villan on February 10, 2022, 08:38:00 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on February 14, 2022, 05:48:48 PM
A self-proclaimed 'Social Media Influencer' with 225 followers. ::)
Post by: Clampy on February 14, 2022, 06:29:35 PM
We really have some numpties following us. https://twitter.com/DG_Reformed/status/1493273702523412486
A self-proclaimed 'Social Media Influencer' with 225 followers. ::)
I saw that earlier as well. What a twat.
Post by: Footy-Vill on February 24, 2022, 08:08:13 PM
"We all live in a world where social media has grown, platforms have grown, TV companies. There are more people following the games.
You are not going to keep every person happy every single game. It's normal for people to criticise, point fingers and be fickle.
If you're a player and you go looking for that I'm sure you’ll find it. I'm not saying stop social media, I'm not saying that but, if you're on social media and you're looking for negative comments and you don't feel good about them, then you've probably got yourself to blame"
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 26, 2022, 11:04:10 PM
Post by: Clampy on February 27, 2022, 07:55:35 AM
Post by: Ian. on February 27, 2022, 08:25:20 AM
You can’t fault his commitment though and he does work very hard all the time and is crucial to how we play.
Post by: N'ZMAV on February 27, 2022, 09:09:30 AM
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on February 27, 2022, 09:12:34 AM
Post by: Steve67 on February 27, 2022, 09:32:07 AM
Post by: Smithy on February 27, 2022, 09:32:16 AM
Last season it surprised me how good he was up front on his own, the ball stuck to him and he shielded the ball well. He was strong and had a great touch. His touch has deserted him this season. He said so himself after the match that he felt he had a bad game and hopes the goal gives his game a lift.
You can’t fault his commitment though and he does work very hard all the time and is crucial to how we play.
His role last season, and the touch required to play in that role was different. Last season it was more about making the ball stick, laying it off simply and then moving into another position to get on the end of things. This season, we seem to be trying to zip it about a bit more in the final third, lots of one-touch, quick touch, triangles and so on, and that sort of inter-play seems to be where he's struggling most. That's not to say he can't do it, or isn't up to it, I just think it's an adjustment he hasn't 100% got to grips with yet. He's still probably the hardest working forward in the league (which is important in Gerrard's formation, esp yesterday helping keep Lamptey quiet), and he still presents a goal threat, so I'll never complain when I see him in the line-up.
Post by: Ian. on February 27, 2022, 09:43:38 AM
Post by: Neil Hawkes on February 27, 2022, 09:50:40 AM
Ings was celebrating as soon as Matty's goal went in, Ollie seemed to be having a conversation with Matty along the lines of "you should have passed to me" and not a smile nor congratulatory hug to be seen.
You're not the only goal scorer in the team son, show a bit of pleasure when others get one too.
Post by: ez on February 27, 2022, 10:10:20 AM
Post by: Pete3206 on February 27, 2022, 10:36:57 AM
There's one or two comments on the main thread saying how poor he was yesterday. Not everything he did came off but I thought he ran his arse off. He was everywhere and deserved his goal.
Completely agree. He put in a great shift.
Post by: eamonn on February 27, 2022, 11:25:38 AM
I like Ollie, but I do question his attitude when other players score.
Ings was celebrating as soon as Matty's goal went in, Ollie seemed to be having a conversation with Matty along the lines of "you should have passed to me" and not a smile nor congratulatory hug to be seen.
You're not the only goal scorer in the team son, show a bit of pleasure when others get one too.
He always does that. It's a bit "Ronaldo-y" but I'll cut him slack this time cos he beat the Villa crest on his heart after he scored, right in front of the Villa fans. I'm fickle like that.
Post by: wittonwarrior on February 27, 2022, 12:20:20 PM
I'm not smitten on him but I still think he is our best option with through balls from the magician and Buendia. Very surprised Gerrard started the two strikers yesterday tbh it didn't work.
Post by: olaftab on February 27, 2022, 12:38:31 PM
I like Ollie, but I do question his attitude when other players score.I agree and have noted his almost neutral stance when other players score however if he himself scores consistently he can do whatever he likes.
Ings was celebrating as soon as Matty's goal went in, Ollie seemed to be having a conversation with Matty along the lines of "you should have passed to me" and not a smile nor congratulatory hug to be seen.
You're not the only goal scorer in the team son, show a bit of pleasure when others get one too.
Post by: Matt C on February 27, 2022, 03:29:15 PM
Saw a stat somewhere yesterday that since the start of last season only two English players have scored more goals than him (Vardy & Kane).
Post by: Risso on February 27, 2022, 04:44:57 PM
Goal looked like a massive weight off his shoulders. Hopefully he can charge onto double figures now.
Saw a stat somewhere yesterday that since the start of last season only two English players have scored more goals than him (Vardy & Kane).
There aren't that many out and out English strikers though, so that's not a surprise. Two who scored more than him last year (Bamford and Calvert Lewin) have both been injured for most of this season.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on March 06, 2022, 08:09:08 AM
The goal and playing well throughout means his confidence has returned. I look forward to seeing what else he does in the rest of this season and coming seasons.
Post by: Legion on March 10, 2022, 10:44:43 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 10, 2022, 10:49:55 PM
Does he ever celebrate when a teammate scores?
When Coutinho scored, it looked like his first reaction was to have a go at the ref.
Post by: paul_e on March 11, 2022, 12:36:18 AM
Does he ever celebrate when a teammate scores?
When Coutinho scored, it looked like his first reaction was to have a go at the ref.
To be fair the ref had ignored a blatant penalty a few seconds earlier when a shirt pull stopped Ollie from having a tap in, I can see the point of him complaining about it.
Post by: Scott Nielsen on March 11, 2022, 04:11:51 AM
Does he ever celebrate when a teammate scores?
It has been witnessed once. Last week, when Ings scored. May not happen again.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on March 11, 2022, 04:25:29 AM
Does he ever celebrate when a teammate scores?
It has been witnessed once. Last week, when Ings scored. May not happen again.
He trotted over to Cash after his goal tonight eventually, all smiles.
Post by: Risso on March 11, 2022, 08:57:47 AM
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 11, 2022, 11:09:32 AM
Post by: Pat Mustard on March 11, 2022, 11:15:33 AM
Post by: LeeB on March 11, 2022, 11:37:07 AM
Post by: Smithy on March 11, 2022, 11:55:16 AM
Does he ever celebrate when a teammate scores?
When Coutinho scored, it looked like his first reaction was to have a go at the ref.
To be fair the ref had ignored a blatant penalty a few seconds earlier when a shirt pull stopped Ollie from having a tap in, I can see the point of him complaining about it.
That's how I saw it, I thought he wanted to make sure the ref knew there was a foul. It's an interesting one, and I don't know the rules, but because we scored from allowing play to continue does that mean they DON'T review the incident? Because if they do, and he WAS pulled back, then he's denied a goal-scoring opportunity, surely? You can go back a punish players after letting the play continue, so does that mean the ref wasn't going to give a penalty?
Post by: Smithy on March 11, 2022, 11:56:42 AM
He's back to being an absolute nightmare to play against, which is all that matters.I also thought he showed a better touch in some of our build-up play last night, some lovely touches in fact. Yes, he's probably still the weak link in terms of quick interplay in the current front three, but last night he was more than good enough on that front.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 11, 2022, 12:52:44 PM
Post by: Ian. on March 11, 2022, 10:38:40 PM
Are we back to castigating players for not having pre-approved facial expressions, again?
Ridiculous ain’t it?
Post by: wittonwarrior on March 12, 2022, 02:41:38 AM
Post by: Drummond on March 12, 2022, 07:19:56 AM
As well as a poor first touch, even some really good players lack that, is his lack of bottle in going for 50/50s
Eh?
Post by: Clampy on March 12, 2022, 07:51:38 AM
Are we back to castigating players for not having pre-approved facial expressions, again?
Ridiculous ain’t it?
I think it's something he needs to work on after training obviously.
Post by: nigel on March 12, 2022, 10:28:48 AM
Are we back to castigating players for not having pre-approved facial expressions, again?
Ridiculous ain’t it?
I think it's something he needs to work on after training obviously.
Haven’t we got a specialist coach for that sort of thing?
Post by: Villan82 on March 13, 2022, 04:44:30 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 13, 2022, 04:46:21 PM
Post by: Ads on March 13, 2022, 04:48:31 PM
Post by: Monty on March 13, 2022, 04:57:13 PM
Post by: Steve67 on March 13, 2022, 08:32:39 PM
Spent more time on his arse than anything else. Not his day at all.
Far too many of those this season.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 13, 2022, 09:36:34 PM
Post by: ROBBO on March 14, 2022, 01:21:30 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 14, 2022, 07:14:08 AM
He is also failing to execute simple passes when in possession.
Post by: tony scott on March 14, 2022, 08:12:48 AM
Post by: john e on March 14, 2022, 09:15:24 AM
Too often when he receives the ball he’s looking for a foul goes down too easily rather than staying on his feet and trying to play football
His control, touch and link up play let’s him down big time
I know he’s had some tremendous games but they are interspersed with long periods of bland performances
We are a mid table premiership team at the moment and thats his level he isn’t good enough for us if we have higher aspirations in the future imo
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on March 14, 2022, 09:28:04 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 14, 2022, 11:08:07 AM
He’s a good player will always get you a few goals and his work rate is spot onExactly how I see it. He is young enough to improve but he needs to get much better at the basics.
Too often when he receives the ball he’s looking for a foul goes down too easily rather than staying on his feet and trying to play football
His control, touch and link up play let’s sit down big time
I know he’s had some tremendous games but they are interspersed with long periods of bland performances
We are a mid table premiership team at the moment and thats his level he isn’t good enough for us if we have higher aspirations in the future imo
Post by: Goldie.7 on March 14, 2022, 12:06:30 PM
You know it wasn't a foul because after not getting the decision he wanted, 2 seconds later he elevates to his feet and sprints to retrieve possession usually giving away a freekick in the process.
He's also been caught offside 43 times in 62 league appearances which is another frustrating trait of his. We can probably knock 3 of those off for VAR blunders, but it's still very high.
Post by: AV82EC on March 14, 2022, 12:06:31 PM
Post by: Drummond on March 14, 2022, 12:17:35 PM
9 times out of 10 his first touch is shocking. I also agree he goes down far too easy.
You know it wasn't a foul because after not getting the decision he wanted, 2 seconds later he elevates to his feet and sprints to retrieve possession usually giving away a freekick in the process.
He's also been caught offside 43 times in 62 league appearances which is another frustrating trait of his. We can probably knock 3 of those off for VAR blunders, but it's still very high.
Bullshit. I've told you a million times not to exaggerate.
Post by: brontebilly on March 14, 2022, 12:20:18 PM
Post by: Monty on March 14, 2022, 12:26:52 PM
Post by: wittonwarrior on March 14, 2022, 01:21:22 PM
Post by: Clark W Griswold on March 14, 2022, 01:32:17 PM
Post by: john e on March 14, 2022, 03:31:08 PM
I would say we have, and I’m being strict here
Martinez, Cash, Mcginn, Ramsey, Coutinho,
Then probable maybe’s are Digne, Buendia, Sanson,
Then there’s a few squad fillers and back ups, Also some Younger lads coming through The system where we don’t know what they can achieve yet but hopefully some will be capable enough in time
As always imo
Post by: Risso on March 14, 2022, 03:33:21 PM
I worry about whether he'll get to that absolute top-level. The other week I saw a Venezia game and they have Nani on a Pires contract. Even at this age, even though he can't really run anymore, you could see the class in his first touch, how he doesn't just trap it with gorgeous ease but directs it and positions his body with it, totally assured technique allied with experience and football intelligence. And it's not like he was the greatest player on earth, but he was a player who made it at the very top of the game, a contributor and a champion. Ollie has so many attributes and is one infectiously likeable guy, but that pure talent? I'm just not totally sure it's there.
Likeable? I'd put that right at the very bottom of his attributes to be honest. Not that it's that important, of course.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on March 14, 2022, 03:38:17 PM
If we’re just looking at current players capable of playing in a team that is challenging for top 6/4 right now
I would say we have, and I’m being strict here
Martinez, Cash, Mcginn, Ramsey, Coutinho,
Then probable maybe’s are Digne, Buendia, Sanson,
Then there’s a few squad fillers and back ups, Also some Younger lads coming through The system where we don’t know what they can achieve yet but hopefully some will be capable enough in time
As always imo
I wouldn’t have McGinn in the first lot. But I think Gerrard would.
I think the entire defence would be good enough if we had a midfield that functioned better and a striker who held the ball up.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 14, 2022, 03:44:39 PM
Ollie has so many attributes and is one infectiously likeable guy, but that pure talent? I'm just not totally sure it's there.
Likeable? I'd put that right at the very bottom of his attributes to be honest. Not that it's that important, of course.
I agree with Monty on this. Think Ollie and Matty Cash are for me the two most 'likeable' players in our squad along with McGinn (with his daft ways) and Emi M (professional and determined but with a bit of divilment in him).
Post by: eamonn on March 14, 2022, 04:35:44 PM
Post by: Drummond on March 14, 2022, 05:16:11 PM
Ollie has so many attributes and is one infectiously likeable guy, but that pure talent? I'm just not totally sure it's there.
Likeable? I'd put that right at the very bottom of his attributes to be honest. Not that it's that important, of course.
I agree with Monty on this. Think Ollie and Matty Cash are for me the two most 'likeable' players in our squad along with McGinn (with his daft ways) and Emi M (professional and determined but with a bit of divilment in him).
My lad's two favourite players
Post by: Drummond on March 21, 2022, 09:16:19 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on March 21, 2022, 09:32:02 AM
Called up for England.Hopefully it will give his confidence a boost as it clearly needs it.
Post by: eamonn on March 21, 2022, 11:32:29 AM
Post by: Smithy on March 21, 2022, 11:57:25 AM
Post by: eamonn on March 21, 2022, 12:01:03 PM
Post by: Pete3206 on March 21, 2022, 06:46:54 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on March 21, 2022, 07:31:52 PM
Post by: brontebilly on March 21, 2022, 08:13:46 PM
I thought Southgate was meant to pick players on form?
Greenwood, Rashford, DCL, Antonio...not many forwards kicking down the door to be selected. Someone like Toney at Brentford surely in better form than Watkins. Watkins last two performances were dreadful for us, hard to justify any kind of inclusion in an England squad on that basis.
Post by: RamboandBruno on March 21, 2022, 10:04:25 PM
Greenwoods future may well be behind bars not in the England squad.I thought Southgate was meant to pick players on form?
Greenwood, Rashford, DCL, Antonio...not many forwards kicking down the door to be selected. Someone like Toney at Brentford surely in better form than Watkins. Watkins last two performances were dreadful for us, hard to justify any kind of inclusion in an England squad on that basis.
Watkins has been off form, but Southgate seems to picking players to do certain jobs. Toney, until recently hadn’t scored for months.
Post by: eamonn on March 21, 2022, 10:41:57 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 21, 2022, 11:53:41 PM
For me if I was picking the original squadand had to choose I'd have gone with Toney but as a late call up I think the experience and familiarity with the setup makes a difference so, like Southgate, I'd have gone with Watkins.
Post by: eamonn on March 22, 2022, 12:04:14 AM
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on March 22, 2022, 08:57:44 AM
Post by: Hookeysmith on March 22, 2022, 09:40:23 AM
I thought Southgate was meant to pick players on form?
Greenwood, Rashford, DCL, Antonio...not many forwards kicking down the door to be selected. Someone like Toney at Brentford surely in better form than Watkins. Watkins last two performances were dreadful for us, hard to justify any kind of inclusion in an England squad on that basis.
Greenwood should be out for a while
Sancho all fart and no shit only mentioned as he plays for red filth
Rashford is shite
DCL not much better
Antonio...Jamaican international
Vardy injured and getting a bit old now
Bamford not good enough
Tony - still raw
Not a lot of other choices i'm afraid rather than Ollie being in due to form
Post by: rob_bridge on March 22, 2022, 10:04:48 AM
Post by: Smithy on March 22, 2022, 11:05:23 AM
Post by: Hookeysmith on March 22, 2022, 01:42:47 PM
It's funny how it's easier to get into the current England set-up as a centre-forward than it is as a right-back.
We do probably have the best 2 RB's in Europe |(if not the world) at the moment
Post by: brontebilly on March 22, 2022, 02:45:16 PM
It's funny how it's easier to get into the current England set-up as a centre-forward than it is as a right-back.
Back to the times Darius Vassell was Rooney's backup!
Tammy is having a brilliant season at Roma, fair play to him. Tuchel obviously didn't rate him but he has got his career spectacularly back on track under Mourinho while likes of Werner and Lukaku continue to flop at Chelsea.
Post by: PeterWithe on March 23, 2022, 09:00:46 AM
Never really struck me as being lightening quick, in fact, at times, rather the opposite.
Post by: Mouse Potato on March 23, 2022, 10:09:09 AM
According to the Daily Mail, Ollie recorded the League’s 5th fastest sprint this season.
Never really struck me as being lightening quick, in fact, at times, rather the opposite.
Doesn't really mean a lot. I remember Engels being included in one of those 'fastest sprints' lists and I was quicker than him after my hip was resurfaced.
Post by: chrisw1 on March 23, 2022, 10:53:10 AM
OT - but did you watch the Andy Murray documentary 'Resurfacing' about his hip injury and everything he went through to try to get fit before and then including his opp? I found a new level of respect for him after that, his determination is incredible.According to the Daily Mail, Ollie recorded the League’s 5th fastest sprint this season.
Never really struck me as being lightening quick, in fact, at times, rather the opposite.
Doesn't really mean a lot. I remember Engels being included in one of those 'fastest sprints' lists and I was quicker than him after my hip was resurfaced.
Hip resurfacing doesn't really do the operation justice - is sounds like a gentle sand down. (As you will of course know) it's pretty much a full hip replacemenmt, they just lop off a bit less of the fermur!
Post by: Mouse Potato on March 23, 2022, 12:26:58 PM
OT - but did you watch the Andy Murray documentary 'Resurfacing' about his hip injury and everything he went through to try to get fit before and then including his opp? I found a new level of respect for him after that, his determination is incredible.According to the Daily Mail, Ollie recorded the League’s 5th fastest sprint this season.
Never really struck me as being lightening quick, in fact, at times, rather the opposite.
Doesn't really mean a lot. I remember Engels being included in one of those 'fastest sprints' lists and I was quicker than him after my hip was resurfaced.
Hip resurfacing doesn't really do the operation justice - is sounds like a gentle sand down. (As you will of course know) it's pretty much a full hip replacemenmt, they just lop off a bit less of the fermur!
OT (continued) Yes I did see that, after I had my Op. It was a good watch I thought. You're right, it is a whole new joint, just a little less invasive than a full hip replacement. You can see the op on YouTube if you're so inclined with some meaty power tools involved. The femur head is trimmed down to a cylindrical shape to accept the metal cap, then the hip socket is 'reamed' (basically a cheese grater on a ball) so that the socket can accept the metal cup. A life changing operation if you have bad Osteoarthritis... just don't watch the op before you have it!
Anyway... Watkins
Post by: UK Redsox on March 23, 2022, 12:45:59 PM
According to the Daily Mail, Ollie recorded the League’s 5th fastest sprint this season.
Never really struck me as being lightening quick, in fact, at times, rather the opposite.
Doesn't really mean a lot. I remember Engels being included in one of those 'fastest sprints' lists and I was quicker than him after my hip was resurfaced.
"On your Marx....get set.... GO"
Post by: chrisw1 on March 24, 2022, 01:59:51 PM
Agreed. The Birmingham Hip is thoroughly recommended.OT - but did you watch the Andy Murray documentary 'Resurfacing' about his hip injury and everything he went through to try to get fit before and then including his opp? I found a new level of respect for him after that, his determination is incredible.According to the Daily Mail, Ollie recorded the League’s 5th fastest sprint this season.
Never really struck me as being lightening quick, in fact, at times, rather the opposite.
Doesn't really mean a lot. I remember Engels being included in one of those 'fastest sprints' lists and I was quicker than him after my hip was resurfaced.
Hip resurfacing doesn't really do the operation justice - is sounds like a gentle sand down. (As you will of course know) it's pretty much a full hip replacemenmt, they just lop off a bit less of the fermur!
OT (continued) Yes I did see that, after I had my Op. It was a good watch I thought. You're right, it is a whole new joint, just a little less invasive than a full hip replacement. You can see the op on YouTube if you're so inclined with some meaty power tools involved. The femur head is trimmed down to a cylindrical shape to accept the metal cap, then the hip socket is 'reamed' (basically a cheese grater on a ball) so that the socket can accept the metal cup. A life changing operation if you have bad Osteoarthritis... just don't watch the op before you have it!
Post by: adrenachrome on March 24, 2022, 09:55:29 PM
According to the Daily Mail, Ollie recorded the League’s 5th fastest sprint this season.
Never really struck me as being lightening quick, in fact, at times, rather the opposite.
Doesn't really mean a lot. I remember Engels being included in one of those 'fastest sprints' lists and I was quicker than him after my hip was resurfaced.
I remember an interview with Alan Hutton where they said he was the fastest player clocked at BH. He laughed it off and said it was Gabby, but that was probably him running from his car.
Post by: darren woolley on March 27, 2022, 02:42:42 PM
Post by: Smithy on March 28, 2022, 11:42:05 AM
According to the Daily Mail, Ollie recorded the League’s 5th fastest sprint this season.
Never really struck me as being lightening quick, in fact, at times, rather the opposite.
Doesn't really mean a lot. I remember Engels being included in one of those 'fastest sprints' lists and I was quicker than him after my hip was resurfaced.
I remember an interview with Alan Hutton where they said he was the fastest player clocked at BH. He laughed it off and said it was Gabby, but that was probably him running from his car.
Those fastest sprints are always measured by the top speed achieved. Which is a bit misleading, because if you can give players 50-60 yards to run into they are going to reach much higher speeds than players who only ever sprint 20-30 yards. Usain Bolt didn't reach his top speed until 60m into the race.
In football, the really valuable pace is how quick you are over 5, 10, 15 yards. Not what speed you can get up to when you've got half a pitch to run into (though that in itself is valuable).
I'd be interested to see the fastest player over 20 yards from a standing start? I bet Bailey would be right up there.
Post by: Pat Mustard on March 28, 2022, 01:16:48 PM
I'm glad he came on v Switzerland I hope he starts against Ivory Coast because I've got free tickets to the match via work.
I wish he hadn't come on to be honest, unless he is going to get a proper run out in the Ivory Coast game. Switzerland now counts as a cap for him, which means idiots will look at his stats and say Ollie Watkins has got 6 England caps and scored 1 goal against San Marino and use that as a stick to beat him with. That conveniently ignores the fact that he has only played about 75 minutes for England in total, usually at the arse-end of the game when Southgate has made about 8 other substitutions first.
If he is going to get a chance for England then he needs to be given a full-game (or at least 70 minutes) with a few first choice players alongside him.
Post by: Drummond on March 28, 2022, 01:56:33 PM
I'm glad he came on v Switzerland I hope he starts against Ivory Coast because I've got free tickets to the match via work.
I wish he hadn't come on to be honest, unless he is going to get a proper run out in the Ivory Coast game. Switzerland now counts as a cap for him, which means idiots will look at his stats and say Ollie Watkins has got 6 England caps and scored 1 goal against San Marino and use that as a stick to beat him with. That conveniently ignores the fact that he has only played about 75 minutes for England in total, usually at the arse-end of the game when Southgate has made about 8 other substitutions first.
If he is going to get a chance for England then he needs to be given a full-game (or at least 70 minutes) with a few first choice players alongside him.
Amen
Post by: eamonn on March 28, 2022, 02:01:49 PM
And start scoring a few more for your club, good lad.
Post by: jwarry on March 30, 2022, 05:00:39 AM
Agreed. The Birmingham Hip is thoroughly recommended.OT - but did you watch the Andy Murray documentary 'Resurfacing' about his hip injury and everything he went through to try to get fit before and then including his opp? I found a new level of respect for him after that, his determination is incredible.According to the Daily Mail, Ollie recorded the League’s 5th fastest sprint this season.
Never really struck me as being lightening quick, in fact, at times, rather the opposite.
Doesn't really mean a lot. I remember Engels being included in one of those 'fastest sprints' lists and I was quicker than him after my hip was resurfaced.
Hip resurfacing doesn't really do the operation justice - is sounds like a gentle sand down. (As you will of course know) it's pretty much a full hip replacemenmt, they just lop off a bit less of the fermur!
OT (continued) Yes I did see that, after I had my Op. It was a good watch I thought. You're right, it is a whole new joint, just a little less invasive than a full hip replacement. You can see the op on YouTube if you're so inclined with some meaty power tools involved. The femur head is trimmed down to a cylindrical shape to accept the metal cap, then the hip socket is 'reamed' (basically a cheese grater on a ball) so that the socket can accept the metal cup. A life changing operation if you have bad Osteoarthritis... just don't watch the op before you have it!
As is an Exeter stem with a Stryker cup according to the stats
Post by: sid1964 on March 30, 2022, 07:16:39 AM
Hopefully he will carry on that form for the rest of the season, because he has been poor for most of this season.
Post by: Drummond on March 30, 2022, 11:35:49 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 03, 2022, 12:20:52 PM
Post by: Clampy on April 03, 2022, 12:26:25 PM
Post by: darren woolley on April 03, 2022, 12:34:30 PM
Post by: eamonn on April 03, 2022, 12:43:48 PM
Post by: Ads on April 03, 2022, 02:23:43 PM
Post by: Clampy on April 03, 2022, 02:26:05 PM
Post by: wittonwarrior on April 03, 2022, 04:53:50 PM
Post by: Risso on April 03, 2022, 05:24:15 PM
Post by: eamonn on April 03, 2022, 05:27:01 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 03, 2022, 05:28:59 PM
Watched MOTD again this morning, and that miss, bloody hell. He could either have stuck it through the keeper's legs which were gaping like the Mersey Tunnel, or showed a bit more composure and tucked it inside the post.It was a regulation 1 on 1 and should have been put away.
Most strikers hate failing to convert these.
If you want to see how it should be done, see Louie Barry v Liverpool.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on April 03, 2022, 05:34:08 PM
His one on one was very poor for an international. A composed striker scores that. I knew he’d miss it but to not even hit the target was unforgivable.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 03, 2022, 09:29:08 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on April 03, 2022, 09:34:39 PM
It was a great pen. The misses were awful. Either he’s just not good enough or his head isn’t right. Either way I don’t think we’ll see the best of him at Villa now, it’s probably time for a change for both sides sakes.
He's only been hit and miss for 6 or so months and still got back in the England squad. It's not like he's scored 4 goals in 3 seasons.
Post by: wittonwarrior on April 03, 2022, 09:38:22 PM
Post by: KevinGage on April 03, 2022, 10:23:09 PM
If anyone departs it will be Ings - if we can find a team willing to cough up the majority of his £120k per week wage. But barring a huge upturn in form between now and the end of the season, Ollie prob hasn't done enough to be a guaranteed starter next year. Not in his favoured position anyroad.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 03, 2022, 11:03:43 PM
He's a much better player.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 03, 2022, 11:06:56 PM
I'd keep Ings over Watkins.
He's a much better player.
Yes.
Post by: rougegorge on April 03, 2022, 11:07:13 PM
I'd be raging if that had been given against us. Watkins drives into the keeper, Sa isn't making any move towards Ollie, his eyes are on the ball and he's waiting to collect it. Think that's what Sa was mouthing to him at the end of the game.I was surprised too. Not one fan around me was shouting for a penalty, although admittedly a few were out of it. If he hadn't have given the penalty, I don't think VAR would have overturned the decision.
Post by: bilsim on April 04, 2022, 06:27:26 AM
I'd keep Ings over Watkins.
He's a much better player.
Yes.
Yes again.
Post by: Neil Hawkes on April 04, 2022, 07:07:20 AM
Both were wrong!
Post by: Mister E on April 04, 2022, 09:04:19 AM
And, they were quicker and more incisive when in possession whereas we looked ponderous.
I do think Watkins is still a player for us but we need to know when to play him and when to play an alternative that can play better as a lone / hold-up striker.
Post by: Steve67 on April 04, 2022, 09:06:39 AM
I'd keep Ings over Watkins.
He's a much better player.
Yes.
Yes again.
I was wondering if Ings would have only scored one goal from the three chances Ollie had. I reckon yes. However, I also think that consistency in pressing with two tougher, game controlling defensive midfielders gets us a better Ollie, McGinn, Ramsey. Ollie by his own admission said he was lucky to get picked for England.
Post by: mrfuse on April 04, 2022, 09:48:22 AM
I'd keep Ings over Watkins.
He's a much better player.
Yes.
Yes again.
I've seen nothing from Ings that suggests that he is in a Villa shirt.
Post by: Risso on April 04, 2022, 09:58:21 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 04, 2022, 10:00:08 AM
I think with Ings at Southampton, he was the main man and played week in, week out and had the likes of JWP creating chances. He was never going to be in that position at Villa with Watkins as our main striker. He's not a bad player, it was just a daft signing made in the heat of the moment when we sold Grealish. That money would have been better spent increasing the bids for the aforementioned JWP or ESR.exactly it was not the signing we needed and still isn’t.
Post by: Steve kirk on April 04, 2022, 10:41:00 AM
I'd keep Ings over Watkins.
He's a much better player.
Yes.
A yes from me as well
Post by: chrisw1 on April 04, 2022, 10:55:35 AM
You say that, but it was absolutely clear we were light up front. We 100% needed a back up striker and Watkins form and earlier injury bears that out. Maybe someone like Tammy would have been a better bet, but I don't think he wanted to come.I think with Ings at Southampton, he was the main man and played week in, week out and had the likes of JWP creating chances. He was never going to be in that position at Villa with Watkins as our main striker. He's not a bad player, it was just a daft signing made in the heat of the moment when we sold Grealish. That money would have been better spent increasing the bids for the aforementioned JWP or ESR.exactly it was not the signing we needed and still isn’t.
For me Ings is a quality player and he just needs to be given the shirt for a decent run in the team to pick up confidence. He's far better with the ball at his feet and in link up play than Watkins. He's also a much harder worker than people give him credit for. Watkins has the edge on pace and energy (and age) but that's it at the moment.
I don't think the mistake was signing Ings, it was pandering to a sulking Watkins and trying to fit them both in the team rather than asking them to fight for a shirt.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on April 04, 2022, 11:07:58 AM
He's younger by 3 years and has time to improve on his side. He's our main striker, internationally recognised. He hasn't got the injury record of Ings. He had a cracking 1st season in the pl and has contributed just as much as anybody else in this meh season with the disruptions that we've had.
If we were to ever get a cl quality striker (and I'm not talking about the ageing suarez) then I'm sure Ollie would be a better back up striker than Ings has proven to be in the time he's been here. I like Ings and I'm glad we've got quality back-up for Ollie, but that's as far as it goes for me.
Post by: Risso on April 04, 2022, 11:11:49 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 04, 2022, 11:36:51 AM
Ings wasn't a back up though, he is a 29 year old footballer with a history of injury problem's who cost us £38million and Smith started him pretty much every game. Some back up.You say that, but it was absolutely clear we were light up front. We 100% needed a back up striker and Watkins form and earlier injury bears that out. Maybe someone like Tammy would have been a better bet, but I don't think he wanted to come.I think with Ings at Southampton, he was the main man and played week in, week out and had the likes of JWP creating chances. He was never going to be in that position at Villa with Watkins as our main striker. He's not a bad player, it was just a daft signing made in the heat of the moment when we sold Grealish. That money would have been better spent increasing the bids for the aforementioned JWP or ESR.exactly it was not the signing we needed and still isn’t.
For me Ings is a quality player and he just needs to be given the shirt for a decent run in the team to pick up confidence. He's far better with the ball at his feet and in link up play than Watkins. He's also a much harder worker than people give him credit for. Watkins has the edge on pace and energy (and age) but that's it at the moment.
I don't think the mistake was signing Ings, it was pandering to a sulking Watkins and trying to fit them both in the team rather than asking them to fight for a shirt.
Post by: Mister E on April 04, 2022, 11:43:31 AM
Ings £38m? - I thought it was £25m?Ings wasn't a back up though, he is a 29 year old footballer with a history of injury problem's who cost us £38million and Smith started him pretty much every game. Some back up.You say that, but it was absolutely clear we were light up front. We 100% needed a back up striker and Watkins form and earlier injury bears that out. Maybe someone like Tammy would have been a better bet, but I don't think he wanted to come.I think with Ings at Southampton, he was the main man and played week in, week out and had the likes of JWP creating chances. He was never going to be in that position at Villa with Watkins as our main striker. He's not a bad player, it was just a daft signing made in the heat of the moment when we sold Grealish. That money would have been better spent increasing the bids for the aforementioned JWP or ESR.exactly it was not the signing we needed and still isn’t.
For me Ings is a quality player and he just needs to be given the shirt for a decent run in the team to pick up confidence. He's far better with the ball at his feet and in link up play than Watkins. He's also a much harder worker than people give him credit for. Watkins has the edge on pace and energy (and age) but that's it at the moment.
I don't think the mistake was signing Ings, it was pandering to a sulking Watkins and trying to fit them both in the team rather than asking them to fight for a shirt.
Post by: rougegorge on April 04, 2022, 11:50:26 AM
Yes, it was Buendía whose fee was up to £38m and Bailey was around £30m.Ings £38m? - I thought it was £25m?Ings wasn't a back up though, he is a 29 year old footballer with a history of injury problem's who cost us £38million and Smith started him pretty much every game. Some back up.You say that, but it was absolutely clear we were light up front. We 100% needed a back up striker and Watkins form and earlier injury bears that out. Maybe someone like Tammy would have been a better bet, but I don't think he wanted to come.I think with Ings at Southampton, he was the main man and played week in, week out and had the likes of JWP creating chances. He was never going to be in that position at Villa with Watkins as our main striker. He's not a bad player, it was just a daft signing made in the heat of the moment when we sold Grealish. That money would have been better spent increasing the bids for the aforementioned JWP or ESR.exactly it was not the signing we needed and still isn’t.
For me Ings is a quality player and he just needs to be given the shirt for a decent run in the team to pick up confidence. He's far better with the ball at his feet and in link up play than Watkins. He's also a much harder worker than people give him credit for. Watkins has the edge on pace and energy (and age) but that's it at the moment.
I don't think the mistake was signing Ings, it was pandering to a sulking Watkins and trying to fit them both in the team rather than asking them to fight for a shirt.
Our much-vaunted transfer business of last summer hasn't really paid off as hoped.
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 04, 2022, 11:58:21 AM
I have heard different values quoted, all over £30million.Yes, it was Buendía whose fee was up to £38m and Bailey was around £30m.Ings £38m? - I thought it was £25m?Ings wasn't a back up though, he is a 29 year old footballer with a history of injury problem's who cost us £38million and Smith started him pretty much every game. Some back up.You say that, but it was absolutely clear we were light up front. We 100% needed a back up striker and Watkins form and earlier injury bears that out. Maybe someone like Tammy would have been a better bet, but I don't think he wanted to come.I think with Ings at Southampton, he was the main man and played week in, week out and had the likes of JWP creating chances. He was never going to be in that position at Villa with Watkins as our main striker. He's not a bad player, it was just a daft signing made in the heat of the moment when we sold Grealish. That money would have been better spent increasing the bids for the aforementioned JWP or ESR.exactly it was not the signing we needed and still isn’t.
For me Ings is a quality player and he just needs to be given the shirt for a decent run in the team to pick up confidence. He's far better with the ball at his feet and in link up play than Watkins. He's also a much harder worker than people give him credit for. Watkins has the edge on pace and energy (and age) but that's it at the moment.
I don't think the mistake was signing Ings, it was pandering to a sulking Watkins and trying to fit them both in the team rather than asking them to fight for a shirt.
Our much-vaunted transfer business of last summer hasn't really paid off as hoped.
Post by: eamonn on April 04, 2022, 12:48:46 PM
Mind you, factor in his salary and it'll hit the mid-30m's over the course of his deal. I think Gerrard rates him and will be reluctant to sell him but this summer is the only time we'll get something decent back for him (£15m- £20m). All depends on what we decide to do with strikers generally.
Watkins will have mainly held his value mainly for his England appearances this season as his club form has clearly regressed. I still don't think we'd make much of a profit on him, he was a hefty £32m including add-ons which have probably been ticked-off now.
Post by: Dave on April 04, 2022, 12:53:18 PM
I have heard different values quoted, all over £30million.Yes, it was Buendía whose fee was up to £38m and Bailey was around £30m.Ings £38m? - I thought it was £25m?Ings wasn't a back up though, he is a 29 year old footballer with a history of injury problem's who cost us £38million and Smith started him pretty much every game. Some back up.You say that, but it was absolutely clear we were light up front. We 100% needed a back up striker and Watkins form and earlier injury bears that out. Maybe someone like Tammy would have been a better bet, but I don't think he wanted to come.I think with Ings at Southampton, he was the main man and played week in, week out and had the likes of JWP creating chances. He was never going to be in that position at Villa with Watkins as our main striker. He's not a bad player, it was just a daft signing made in the heat of the moment when we sold Grealish. That money would have been better spent increasing the bids for the aforementioned JWP or ESR.exactly it was not the signing we needed and still isn’t.
For me Ings is a quality player and he just needs to be given the shirt for a decent run in the team to pick up confidence. He's far better with the ball at his feet and in link up play than Watkins. He's also a much harder worker than people give him credit for. Watkins has the edge on pace and energy (and age) but that's it at the moment.
I don't think the mistake was signing Ings, it was pandering to a sulking Watkins and trying to fit them both in the team rather than asking them to fight for a shirt.
Our much-vaunted transfer business of last summer hasn't really paid off as hoped.
Pretty much everywhere reported at the time that it was somewhere between £25m and £30m.
Post by: brontebilly on April 04, 2022, 01:36:52 PM
Ings wasn't a back up though, he is a 29 year old footballer with a history of injury problem's who cost us £38million and Smith started him pretty much every game. Some back up.You say that, but it was absolutely clear we were light up front. We 100% needed a back up striker and Watkins form and earlier injury bears that out. Maybe someone like Tammy would have been a better bet, but I don't think he wanted to come.I think with Ings at Southampton, he was the main man and played week in, week out and had the likes of JWP creating chances. He was never going to be in that position at Villa with Watkins as our main striker. He's not a bad player, it was just a daft signing made in the heat of the moment when we sold Grealish. That money would have been better spent increasing the bids for the aforementioned JWP or ESR.exactly it was not the signing we needed and still isn’t.
For me Ings is a quality player and he just needs to be given the shirt for a decent run in the team to pick up confidence. He's far better with the ball at his feet and in link up play than Watkins. He's also a much harder worker than people give him credit for. Watkins has the edge on pace and energy (and age) but that's it at the moment.
I don't think the mistake was signing Ings, it was pandering to a sulking Watkins and trying to fit them both in the team rather than asking them to fight for a shirt.
Deano showed his inexperience there to allow the Ings transfer to go ahead. Ings is a good footballer, as are the likes of Buendia to be fair. But Ings was never going to be a good fit for us and Buendia with Coutinho also doesn't look as if it's going to work unfortunately.
Post by: Drummond on April 06, 2022, 01:45:24 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 06, 2022, 02:02:08 PM
No way was Ings that much. £25m was reported in most places. He only had a year left on his deal, £25m was too generous for Saints to turn-down once
My understanding at the time was that it was £25m.
Post by: Villan82 on April 09, 2022, 07:10:28 PM
Post by: RamboandBruno on April 09, 2022, 09:02:01 PM
One season wonder? He looked so promising last season (despite hitting the woodwork quite often). Really unimpressed with him this season.
Yes really poor today. That header in yhe forst hslf that went miles over, Kane or Son score, simple.
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 09, 2022, 09:05:49 PM
Post by: Risso on April 09, 2022, 10:26:32 PM
He’s out of form, he’s still a good player. He’s never going to be a perfect finisher, but when he’s on form he’s very useful.
I disagree Paul. He's a lower league player who had a half decent season last year because we had Grealish in top form. He was abysmal today. He's 27 this year too, so it's not like he's a 21 year old where you expect ups and down in form to happen due to inexperience. He's just not very good.
Post by: Des Little on April 09, 2022, 10:32:10 PM
Post by: Risso on April 09, 2022, 10:33:12 PM
Way, way too inconsistent at this level, has a poor touch and gets knocked off the ball too easily. I’d definitely listen to offers in the summer. We need much better.
He seems to spend half his time on the deck, as he gets knocked off the ball way too easily.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 09, 2022, 10:52:40 PM
He’s out of form, he’s still a good player. He’s never going to be a perfect finisher, but when he’s on form he’s very useful.
I disagree Paul. He's a lower league player who had a half decent season last year because we had Grealish in top form. He was abysmal today. He's 27 this year too, so it's not like he's a 21 year old where you expect ups and down in form to happen due to inexperience. He's just not very good.
I agree with Risso.
He can't control a ball, and treats shooting at goal like buying a scratchcard - you might get a pound back sometimes but the fun is in the process of trying (and normally failing).
Post by: astonvilla82 on April 09, 2022, 11:11:53 PM
he a forward paid to score goals, he not doing it for usHe’s out of form, he’s still a good player. He’s never going to be a perfect finisher, but when he’s on form he’s very useful.
I disagree Paul. He's a lower league player who had a half decent season last year because we had Grealish in top form. He was abysmal today. He's 27 this year too, so it's not like he's a 21 year old where you expect ups and down in form to happen due to inexperience. He's just not very good.
I agree with Risso.
He can't control a ball, and treats shooting at goal like buying a scratchcard - you might get a pound back sometimes but the fun is in the process of trying (and normally failing).
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 09, 2022, 11:16:26 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 09, 2022, 11:24:30 PM
Misses so many simple chances. Get rid.
Post by: Ads on April 09, 2022, 11:26:11 PM
We need a new spine.
Post by: Nunkin1965 on April 09, 2022, 11:31:51 PM
You can't play as well as we did in the first half and not score.
Post by: astonvilla82 on April 09, 2022, 11:40:01 PM
The top end of the team is a big problem.agree
You can't play as well as we did in the first half and not score.
Post by: RamboandBruno on April 09, 2022, 11:54:48 PM
The walls of your house have a better first touch. Not good enough to be a top half player. Son had 3 chances and scored 3 goals. Watkins missed two 1 on 1s against the Wolves that would have seen us win a game we didn't deserve to, like Spurs won a game today where box to box, they were 2nd best.
We need a new spine.
Agree. The header over the bar looked so much worse in the replays. Every team will be after strikers and Newcastle will offer higher wages, West Ham European football etc, but we simply have to find better from somewhere
Post by: CT Villan on April 10, 2022, 01:43:33 AM
Sell Watkins (and Ings) and support Suarez with Archer/Davis.
Post by: brontebilly on April 10, 2022, 01:47:35 AM
35 year old Luis Suarez is on a free transfer in the summer. We could give him a 1 year contract (+1yr possible extension). No-brainer for me as long as we keep Coutinho, though they both may have better offers.
Sell Watkins (and Ings) and support Suarez with Archer/Davis.
The same Luis Suarez that can't make an average Athletico team? No thanks.
Watkins has been rotten all season.
Post by: Axl Rose on April 10, 2022, 04:02:47 AM
Post by: nigel on April 10, 2022, 12:49:25 PM
Archer will get a pre season in to see where he’s at.
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 10, 2022, 12:57:17 PM
Post by: aldridgeboy on April 10, 2022, 02:02:23 PM
I wasn’t convinced last year, but at least he was scoring.Him
And Ings ( who is also poor ) just isn’t working.
I fear it may be a year too soon for Archer, but let’s have at look at least.
Post by: Ads on April 10, 2022, 02:03:23 PM
Post by: Richard E on April 10, 2022, 02:05:35 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 10, 2022, 02:16:04 PM
Post by: eamonn on April 10, 2022, 05:01:46 PM
Gavin McCann, his 2nd touch was always a tackle. Watkins touch is really poor though and he's not a natural finisher.
Don't forget Reo-Choker.
Post by: Jon Crofts on April 19, 2022, 04:00:49 PM
Can't see that myself.
Post by: frank black on April 19, 2022, 04:17:40 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 19, 2022, 04:42:04 PM
I think he’s a good player off form and will be fine.In the First Division
Post by: eamonn on April 19, 2022, 05:11:40 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on April 19, 2022, 07:23:20 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 19, 2022, 11:28:57 PM
I think he’s a good player off form and will be fine.
I hope so. He certainly played a lot better last season. Maybe a proper manager would get the best out of him, Gerrard clearly hasn't.
Post by: ROBBO on April 20, 2022, 01:42:35 AM
Post by: Clampy on April 20, 2022, 06:55:50 AM
I think he’s a good player off form and will be fine.In the First Division
Yep. A player who could be in the World Cup squad in a few months time.
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 20, 2022, 07:02:03 AM
I think it shows up the paucity of English forwards, after Kane its Rashford ( lost the plot) , Watkins or DCL who are limited footballers.I think he’s a good player off form and will be fine.In the First Division
Yep. A player who could be in the World Cup squad in a few months time.
Post by: Clampy on April 20, 2022, 07:06:57 AM
I think it shows up the paucity of English forwards, after Kane its Rashford ( lost the plot) , Watkins or DCL who are limited footballers.I think he’s a good player off form and will be fine.In the First Division
Yep. A player who could be in the World Cup squad in a few months time.
Maybe, but it doesn't make him a First Division player.
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 20, 2022, 07:11:07 AM
You are probably right. But his first touch is nowhere near good enough.I think it shows up the paucity of English forwards, after Kane its Rashford ( lost the plot) , Watkins or DCL who are limited footballers.I think he’s a good player off form and will be fine.In the First Division
Yep. A player who could be in the World Cup squad in a few months time.
Maybe, but it doesn't make him a First Division player.
Post by: maidstonevillain on April 20, 2022, 10:55:42 AM
Post by: Villan82 on May 01, 2022, 09:04:10 AM
Post by: N'ZMAV on May 01, 2022, 09:10:49 AM
He will do well at Norwich next season.Who, Davis or Archer?
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on May 01, 2022, 09:15:18 AM
Watkins has now scored more premier league goals for villa than either Dalian Atkinson or Darren Bent and hasn't yet had two full seasons.
This season hasn't exactly been a great season for the team too.
There's a lot more to come from Ollie!
Anwar El Ghazi is 20th on that list, which is easy to go unnoticed.
Post by: Tayls_7 on May 01, 2022, 09:18:11 AM
Watkins has now scored more premier league goals for villa than either Dalian Atkinson or Darren Bent and hasn't yet had two full seasons.
This season hasn't exactly been a great season for the team too.
There's a lot more to come from Ollie!
Anwar El Ghazi is 20th on that list, which is easy to go unnoticed.
Jesus. Are we really that shit :(
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 11, 2022, 04:01:51 PM
There's been talk about West Ham wanting to sign him for £50m at this moment I would keep Ollie as he very integral to our system up front and I think he's improving more and more.
Post by: supertom on May 11, 2022, 07:52:19 PM
The question is, who are we going to find who is better that will come to us over a CL club? How much will that cost? We might have rich owners but unlike Man City, we're going to need to be mindful of FFP (and if we sell, it should be players we can cope with losing). Ollie can still improve. We can still move up a level or two with him. If/when we do, we can then decide whether or not to cash in and suitably upgrade.
Right now though, I genuinely do feel if we sold Watkins in the summer we'd be missing him a lot by November. It's not just about goals and end product, which undoubtedly he needs to improve. He's a rare breed of front man and is becoming integral to how we play.
Post by: DrGonzo on May 11, 2022, 08:08:49 PM
Post by: maidstonevillain on May 11, 2022, 08:31:51 PM
He's a good young player that is still learning his trade. He'd have got at least an assist last night if Ings had had his shooting boots on. Second season syndrome is a common occurrence and he'll be back brighter next season or I'll eat Trump's foul MAGA hat.Or scored two goals if he could control the ball.
Post by: Dante Lavelli on May 11, 2022, 08:55:50 PM
*1. The Ings v Watkins debate
*2. Easier to play Coutinho and Buendia
*3. Creates space for Davis/Archer
But they must leave on our terms rather than sold on the cheap.
Post by: Louzie0 on May 11, 2022, 09:39:16 PM
Selling one of Watkins will solves some minor problems* so I’m not against it
...
* One of Watkins’ what? I can think of a few problems!
Post by: Dante Lavelli on May 11, 2022, 09:53:59 PM
Selling one of Watkins will solves some minor problems* so I’m not against it
...
* One of Watkins’ what? I can think of a few problems!
oops. Corrected in the original post.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on May 12, 2022, 05:45:37 AM
Post by: algy on May 12, 2022, 06:39:27 AM
Watkins has now scored more premier league goals for villa than either Dalian Atkinson or Darren Bent and hasn't yet had two full seasons.Bit unfair on Dalian (RIP), he joined the club in 1991 so it misses out his goals from his first season.
Post by: Olof's Beard on May 12, 2022, 08:45:46 AM
He has his faults but he has a lot of qualities. Given he doesn't take penalties very often (largely because he is shit at them admittedly), his scoring record is decent. Not spectacular but decent. We will need to spend a lot to upgrade him.
Post by: Clampy on May 12, 2022, 08:47:32 AM
Post by: mike on May 12, 2022, 08:52:18 AM
Post by: Mister E on May 12, 2022, 09:09:07 AM
Post by: TaxDodger on May 12, 2022, 09:15:20 AM
Post by: eamonn on May 12, 2022, 09:52:30 AM
He had a few ruled out last season for toenail off sides as well.
And up at Nukey this season.
Post by: danno on May 12, 2022, 10:01:34 AM
Post by: achilles on May 12, 2022, 01:46:57 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 12, 2022, 01:54:43 PM
He needs to 'muscle' up and put a few pounds on so he can compete better with the physicality side of the game.
Oh no, no, no, no, nooo. We had another striker not too long ago, he did that. Ended badly for all concerned.
Post by: Drummond on May 12, 2022, 02:08:42 PM
He needs to 'muscle' up and put a few pounds on so he can compete better with the physicality side of the game.
Oh no, no, no, no, nooo. We had another striker not too long ago, he did that. Ended badly for all concerned.
Yep, absolutely.
He's not the strongest, but he doesn't need to be. We've got Davis for that..
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 12, 2022, 02:13:47 PM
Post by: eamonn on May 12, 2022, 02:39:27 PM
He needs to 'muscle' up and put a few pounds on so he can compete better with the physicality side of the game.
Oh no, no, no, no, nooo. We had another striker not too long ago, he did that. Ended badly for all concerned.
And before him, Darius Vassell trying to get rid of a blister on his foot with a power-drill (or maybe John Gregory was just trying to get a laugh with that comment).
Post by: mike on May 12, 2022, 04:05:49 PM
He needs to 'muscle' up and put a few pounds on so he can compete better with the physicality side of the game.
Oh no, no, no, no, nooo. We had another striker not too long ago, he did that. Ended badly for all concerned.
And before him, Darius Vassell trying to get rid of a blister on his foot with a power-drill (or maybe John Gregory was just trying to get a laugh with that comment).
Don't be ridiculous. It was a bruise under a toenail and he was just trying to relieve the pressure by drilling a very small hole... with a power drill! He obviously didn't want to burden the medical staff, which is very polite of him.
Post by: The Man With A Stick on May 12, 2022, 04:32:46 PM
I think it shows up the paucity of English forwards, after Kane its Rashford ( lost the plot) , Watkins or DCL who are limited footballers.I think he’s a good player off form and will be fine.In the First Division
Yep. A player who could be in the World Cup squad in a few months time.
How Rashford, Watkins and Calvert-Lewin are ahead of Abraham in the pecking order says all you need to know about Southgate.
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 12, 2022, 08:58:23 PM
Post by: Small Rodent on May 12, 2022, 09:11:00 PM
Post by: eamonn on May 12, 2022, 10:08:03 PM
Post by: KevinGage on May 12, 2022, 10:16:37 PM
He needs to 'muscle' up and put a few pounds on so he can compete better with the physicality side of the game.
Oh no, no, no, no, nooo. We had another striker not too long ago, he did that. Ended badly for all concerned.
And before him, Darius Vassell trying to get rid of a blister on his foot with a power-drill (or maybe John Gregory was just trying to get a laugh with that comment).
Don't be ridiculous. It was a bruise under a toenail and he was just trying to relieve the pressure by drilling a very small hole... with a power drill!
We've all done it.
Would have cancelled his contract then, TBH. I know footballers generally aren't the brightest, but fucking hell.
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 15, 2022, 03:29:56 PM
Post by: maidstonevillain on May 15, 2022, 03:38:07 PM
Watkins really proving his worth . Silencing the critics. Well played I give Watkins that goal v Palace todayI'm not silenced. Goes a little way to making up for all the chances he's missed, or wasted.
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 15, 2022, 03:45:22 PM
That's fair enoughWatkins really proving his worth . Silencing the critics. Well played I give Watkins that goal v Palace todayI'm not silenced. Goes a little way to making up for all the chances he's missed, or wasted.
However he's the only one getting the goals at the moment or looking any real danger.
Post by: Risso on May 15, 2022, 04:00:24 PM
Post by: ez on May 15, 2022, 04:01:10 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 15, 2022, 04:02:47 PM
That effort at the end was Watkins all over. Rubbish.
Wait until you see the replay.
Post by: Ian. on May 15, 2022, 06:24:06 PM
If Ings connected with his chance very early on it could have been a completely different game.
Post by: eamonn on May 15, 2022, 06:50:43 PM
Post by: Ian. on May 15, 2022, 07:00:38 PM
Our midfield could chip in more and in the same way Our midfield hasn’t helped our defence very well this season.
It’s definitely been quite a inconsistent season, hence our league position. They say the table doesn’t lie.
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on May 15, 2022, 07:31:54 PM
Post by: Risso on May 15, 2022, 08:20:41 PM
Do we not expect too much from Watkins and Ings? It seems every chance they get, even if it's a half one, they get slagged for missing it. Yet, I think their conversion % stats compare pretty favourably with the top strikers in the PL. Surely the problem is more that they don't get enough service.
Ings has had loads of chances recently, and mostly his efforts have been terrible.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 15, 2022, 09:11:18 PM
Do we not expect too much from Watkins and Ings? It seems every chance they get, even if it's a half one, they get slagged for missing it. Yet, I think their conversion % stats compare pretty favourably with the top strikers in the PL. Surely the problem is more that they don't get enough service.
Ings has had loads of chances recently, and mostly his efforts have been terrible.
Whilst this is undoubtedly true, I'd still trust him more than Watkins if our season depended on it (which it doesn't).
Post by: Ad@m on May 15, 2022, 10:02:49 PM
There's also the fact that Ings is at the wrong end of his career and Ollie's only going to improve over the next few years as long as he gets the right coaching.
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 16, 2022, 09:02:22 AM
Post by: Risso on May 16, 2022, 09:08:45 AM
There's no point in Ings if he isn't going to score.
Yep, you don't get much else from him and the team as a whole is weakened. I think Ings and Watkins can work in "flat track bully" games but Palace were too good for that.
Post by: eamonn on May 16, 2022, 09:57:48 AM
Post by: LeeB on May 16, 2022, 12:01:04 PM
Ings has 6 assists this season, our joint-highest setter-upper with Buendia and 5 more than Watkins so he does more than score/not score.
That's great and everything, but he's paid to score and he gets manouvered off the ball far too easily to boot.
Post by: eamonn on May 16, 2022, 03:41:52 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2022, 05:26:36 PM
Post by: olaftab on May 20, 2022, 11:15:35 AM
Post by: wittonwarrior on May 20, 2022, 12:14:49 PM
Nice Chap
First touch terrible
Second touch just as shit
heading of the ball - what's that
Bootle - distinct lack of
Championship striker written all over him
Post by: PeterWithe on May 20, 2022, 12:48:21 PM
Post by: LeeB on May 20, 2022, 12:51:27 PM
The thing I struggle with is that his first touch is poor and its not improving, why?
The thing I'm struggling with is that it was fine last season.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 20, 2022, 12:59:16 PM
The thing I struggle with is that his first touch is poor and its not improving, why?
The thing I'm struggling with is that it was fine last season.
He's never been the same since the birth of his daughter. He brought her out onto the pitch last night. If I'd been there I'd have booed her.
Post by: Beard82 on May 20, 2022, 03:22:29 PM
Ive been laughing at this afternoonThe thing I struggle with is that his first touch is poor and its not improving, why?
The thing I'm struggling with is that it was fine last season.
He's never been the same since the birth of his daughter. He brought her out onto the pitch last night. If I'd been there I'd have booed her.
Post by: Sdwbvf on May 21, 2022, 08:25:57 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/21/ollie-watkins-aston-villa-killer-in-front-of-goal-england-coutinho-gerrard-manchester-city?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
Post by: algy on May 21, 2022, 08:59:40 AM
Guardian interview.Easy to forget that he had a kid 8 months ago.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/21/ollie-watkins-aston-villa-killer-in-front-of-goal-england-coutinho-gerrard-manchester-city?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
Post by: olaftab on May 21, 2022, 09:12:27 AM
Post by: olaftab on May 21, 2022, 09:22:30 AM
Ings has looked woeful the last two games - he's got to hit the target with both his first half chances today.Yes but Ollie is 26 and Ings is 29 so there is not a lot in it and Ollie should be at his peak now which he probably is so I am afraid he may have some possible refinement but not a seismic change left in him to turn into a prolific goal scorer.
There's also the fact that Ings is at the wrong end of his career and Ollie's only going to improve over the next few years as long as he gets the right coaching.
Post by: Chris Smith on May 21, 2022, 09:26:00 AM
Thanks for posting but a bit of nothing article.
Although he seems to contradict the rumours that he’s looking to move.
Post by: N'ZMAV on May 21, 2022, 09:35:40 AM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 21, 2022, 11:35:06 AM
I can’t see a bigger club taking Watkins. He’s too hit and miss for a big move anywhere. Way too streaky.
West Ham aren't a bigger club, but they might have him.
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 21, 2022, 11:50:52 AM
Post by: Chris Smith on May 21, 2022, 11:57:44 AM
If Watkins leaves, we will regret it.
I agree and I get the impression Gerrard feels the same.
Post by: N'ZMAV on May 22, 2022, 06:40:37 PM
He needs to fine tune his game in the summer if he wants to stay first choice.
Post by: brontebilly on May 22, 2022, 06:49:05 PM
The thing I struggle with is that his first touch is poor and its not improving, why?
The thing I'm struggling with is that it was fine last season.
It wasn't though, it was always rank. He got more through balls last season from Grealish that he could run onto. This season he has had to work harder with his back to goal and it has exposed his rotten first touch a lot more.
Post by: Aldridge Villa on May 22, 2022, 07:56:55 PM
Post by: Smirker on May 22, 2022, 08:48:56 PM
Post by: Clampy on May 22, 2022, 08:51:11 PM
Cheerio
Wow. Why do some football fans have such short memories?
Post by: Aldridge Villa on May 22, 2022, 09:18:59 PM
Post by: Clampy on May 22, 2022, 09:21:24 PM
If short is August 2021 onwards then you have a point.
Yep, cheerio because he's not been as good as he was last season.
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on May 22, 2022, 09:23:00 PM
Post by: SamTheMouse on May 22, 2022, 09:23:54 PM
Post by: Chris Harte on May 22, 2022, 09:47:02 PM
Post by: PeterWithe on May 22, 2022, 09:52:24 PM
The one where he muscled Ferandinho off the ball, then allowed him to get a tackle back in, really poor play. Can he get better? I dunno
Post by: Ads on May 22, 2022, 10:03:42 PM
Post by: Randy Gurner on May 22, 2022, 10:20:51 PM
He has a similar skill set to Gabby in terms of his technique and finishing ability.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 22, 2022, 10:28:43 PM
I wouldn't get rid, but I wouldn't be relying upon him to the extent we are. 11 goals, 1 in 3, is decent. But can we improve? It won't be cheap.
Depends how much we could sell Ollie for. If we could get £40m for him I'd bite their hand off. Reinvest that money with a more qualified striker and we're laughing. Toney? Abraham? There must be others that are far more suited to Gerrard's style of play that wouldn't cost much more than £40m-£60m. Isn't that what Man City do; sell well and upgrade?
Post by: Risso on May 22, 2022, 10:37:18 PM
Post by: PeterWithe on May 22, 2022, 10:40:52 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 22, 2022, 10:42:09 PM
I wouldn't get rid, but I wouldn't be relying upon him to the extent we are. 11 goals, 1 in 3, is decent. But can we improve? It won't be cheap.
Depends how much we could sell Ollie for. If we could get £40m for him I'd bite their hand off. Reinvest that money with a more qualified striker and we're laughing. Toney? Abraham? There must be others that are far more suited to Gerrard's style of play that wouldn't cost much more than £40m-£60m. Isn't that what Man City do; sell well and upgrade?
I'm not sure either Toney or Abraham are "more qualified" and Man Citeh just spend shitloads of money. Can't remember them ever selling anyone for big money since Abu Dhabi came in.
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 22, 2022, 10:57:13 PM
If you compare us to say West Ham, a team we want to catch and probably the most realistic competitor to do so, their main attacking three in Antonio, Bowen and Benrahma got 30 goals between them. They also had a few midfielders chipping in with 5 goals, whilst it was only Ramsey for us. Spurs as a team aren’t stuffed with talent, but in Son and Kane they have two world class forwards who got 40 goals between them.
Helped that they had a settled front three. I think you have Watkins, Buendia and Coutinho as your main three all season they wouldn't get far off thirty between them.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 22, 2022, 11:15:00 PM
I wouldn't get rid, but I wouldn't be relying upon him to the extent we are. 11 goals, 1 in 3, is decent. But can we improve? It won't be cheap.
Depends how much we could sell Ollie for. If we could get £40m for him I'd bite their hand off. Reinvest that money with a more qualified striker and we're laughing. Toney? Abraham? There must be others that are far more suited to Gerrard's style of play that wouldn't cost much more than £40m-£60m. Isn't that what Man City do; sell well and upgrade?
I'm not sure either Toney or Abraham are "more qualified" and Man Citeh just spend shitloads of money. Can't remember them ever selling anyone for big money since Abu Dhabi came in.
Leroy Sané - £54m
Ferran Torres - £49m
Danilo - £33m
Iheanacho - £25m
And that's just for starters under Guardiola.
To begin with both Toney and Abraham can control a ball thus making them "more qualified" than Ollie 'Benson' Watkins.
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 22, 2022, 11:19:06 PM
Post by: Risso on May 22, 2022, 11:25:33 PM
Abraham couldn't hack it in the Premier League.
He’s still only 24 and in one of his two proper seasons in the Premier League he got 15 goals in 34 games. I could live with him not hacking it with stats like that.
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 22, 2022, 11:29:43 PM
Post by: darren woolley on May 22, 2022, 11:40:36 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on May 23, 2022, 12:22:02 AM
He should be putting those chances away he missed today.
It was not just today, it's been quite a number of games this season. He's not even getting a shot away in one on one situations because he is being let down by a poor touch. If we are to move forward, we need better and it might mean Watkins being used as an impact sub to add a bit of energy.
I'm still a bit torn on Ings, as I think he would possibly be a better option to link up with Coutinho and Buendia. Guess the question with him is whether we give him a pre season and assess from there or move him on and use the money to partly fund bringing in another striker.
Post by: sid1964 on May 23, 2022, 06:24:27 AM
Post by: Clive W on May 23, 2022, 06:54:46 AM
I’m not sure, at the age of 26, whether that can be remedied
Post by: simboy on May 23, 2022, 07:07:48 AM
However, if we consign him to the "yet another Villa failed striker" pile who do we get that will give us 10-15 goals a season? 11 this season, behind Vardy, Zaha, Bowen, Maddison and Toney who do not play for the Sky six. Anyone likely to get 15 - 20 goals a season will most likely be on their way to one of those teams, or Newcastle. Good strikers, or potentially good strikers, are identified from a very young age. Occasionally one will get overlooked - Vardy is the prime example - but it happens so rarely nowadays, and if it does happen there's a bid on the table in a season or two which the player will usually want.
We are not in the luxurious position of being able to offer Champions league, or any type of European football at all, we haven't since 2005. We cannot offer the mega-bucks of Newcastle, although an upper wage limit of £125k per week is pretty good money by most people's standards, it pales by the £300k that the House of Saud can offer.
We may get the odd player who is on the bench and wants game-time. That can be very "hit and miss" [usually miss] and most players would rather medals and splinters than midtable mediocrity, Grealish exemplifying this. The one i think we may have missed was Abraham before he went to Roma. Clearly a very good striker at this level. Used "sparingly" at Chelsea despite being their top scorer, and with an affinity with the club as it was then.
So we have to develop our own. But we cannot develop that at the pace we want to. It has to be done at the pace the player can adjust, and let's be fair when was the last "homegrown" striking talent produced by Aston Villa to grace the top league? Gary Shaw? We potentially have one now, in Archer. But i suspect he needs another half season in the Championship to develop.
Watkins, even more than most of this squad has had a disrupted season, this season. Gerrard clearly likes him and sees him as part of the future. Let's see if, with the full pre-season, and the prospect of a World Cup in November he starts to take those chances.
Post by: Footy-Vill on July 14, 2022, 04:19:16 PM
Post by: Smirker on July 14, 2022, 04:39:34 PM
FIFA has approved a 26-man squad for the World Cup, giving Ollie Watkins even more reason to score 20 plus goals and play well this season.
I wish.
Post by: WassallVillain on July 14, 2022, 06:32:37 PM
FIFA has approved a 26-man squad for the World Cup, giving Ollie Watkins even more reason to score 20 plus goals and play well this season.If he scores 6 or 7 in the pre WC season I’ll be happy and if he does so whilst maintains his usual work rate he’ll be in anyway.
Post by: Smithy on July 19, 2022, 03:11:45 PM
FIFA has approved a 26-man squad for the World Cup, giving Ollie Watkins even more reason to score 20 plus goals and play well this season.If he scores 6 or 7 in the pre WC season I’ll be happy and if he does so whilst maintains his usual work rate he’ll be in anyway.
Just had a look and the squad gets announced on 20th Oct - that's after 12 games. He's going to have to start the season pretty hot to force his way in, because even 5 or 6 goals by then would be perfectly acceptable, but unlikely be enough to draw too much attention his way.
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 19, 2022, 03:34:12 PM
Post by: Smithy on July 19, 2022, 04:00:52 PM
Look at the competition to play second fiddle to Kane.
I would say Abraham and Calvert-Lewin are definitely ahead of him as Kane's backup. Ollie is probably next in line, assuming Rashford doesn't have a renaissance under a new manager. Ollie does offer something different though, so it's possible it'll be one of Abraham/Calvert-Lewin as the like-for-like Kane back up, and Ollie to play up front and run himself ragged when you're trying to defend higher up the pitch? He's probably the best pressing centre-forward in the league.
The bigger squad helps his chances, but I imagine Southgate will want to take four right-backs rather than gamble on an extra forward...
Post by: Drummond on July 19, 2022, 04:33:34 PM
Post by: Risso on July 19, 2022, 04:44:09 PM
There's Kane, Abraham, Rashford, Bowen, Saka, Sterling, Foden, Ratboy, Calvert-Lewin, Bamford, Toney, Wilson all as strikers who will hope with a fair wind and a strong start that they may have a chance, some more likely than others. To be in with a shout Watkins needs to be playing, causing problems and, most importantly, scoring to have a chance.
Yep, there's going to be a fairly short window to impress as well.
Post by: john e on July 19, 2022, 04:55:45 PM
Like others have said there’s not many forwards getting a bag full of those anymore
I know he puts a shift in and isn’t lazy which is fine but he hasn’t got much of a touch And too much of his play comes to nothing and his link up play isn’t good enough
But he’s probably our best option like others have said again We’re not in a position to replace him for a Champions League type forward hopefully we’ve got others coming through so let’s hope Gerrard can get the best out of him but if the basics aren’t there then I’m afraid it will be difficult
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 19, 2022, 05:00:14 PM
It’s not his goalscoring that is the biggest problem for me I could live with that if it’s hold-up play was betterCompletely agree. Somehow Gerrard has got to get goals out of him Ings and the midfield. Please no Watkins and Ings together
Like others have said there’s not many forwards getting a bag full of those anymore
I know he puts a shift in and isn’t lazy which is fine but he hasn’t got much of a touch And too much of his play comes to nothing and his link up play isn’t good enough
But he’s probably our best option like others have said again We’re not in a position to replace him for a Champions League type forward hopefully we’ve got others coming through so let’s hope Gerrard can get the best out of him but if the basics aren’t there then I’m afraid it will be difficult
Post by: LeeB on July 19, 2022, 05:46:51 PM
Wilson however I do like, he's a proper centre forward, just seems very injury prone.
Toney looks OK but lacks pace, relies on a lot of pens to boost his numbers, I'm not convinced.
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 20, 2022, 04:59:43 AM
Post by: Dogtanian on July 20, 2022, 06:59:31 AM
Post by: LeeB on July 20, 2022, 08:09:28 AM
I think Ollie is going to have a much better season this year. He only scored 2 goals in 11 under Smith, then 9 in 26 under Gerrard. That would equate to about 13 goals in a full season, but with an improved team behind him and the focus work with a finishing coach he’s done, he should build on that.
Me too.
Post by: astonvilla82 on July 20, 2022, 09:08:23 AM
Plus Toney is a complete Zulu sign making wanker.wondering why he's not at Birmingham then,oh because they are (put any word you like in)
Post by: Drummond on July 20, 2022, 10:07:23 AM
I think Ollie is going to have a much better season this year. He only scored 2 goals in 11 under Smith, then 9 in 26 under Gerrard. That would equate to about 13 goals in a full season, but with an improved team behind him and the focus work with a finishing coach he’s done, he should build on that.
Me too.
Me three. In fact I think him and Ings will do really well this season, Ings will get plenty of assists I think too.
Post by: Risso on July 20, 2022, 10:08:12 AM
I think Ollie is going to have a much better season this year. He only scored 2 goals in 11 under Smith, then 9 in 26 under Gerrard. That would equate to about 13 goals in a full season, but with an improved team behind him and the focus work with a finishing coach he’s done, he should build on that.
Me too.
Me three. In fact I think him and Ings will do really well this season, Ings will get plenty of assists I think too.
I honestly can't see them playing together that often, it'll be one or the other.
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 20, 2022, 10:12:45 AM
I hope so.I think Ollie is going to have a much better season this year. He only scored 2 goals in 11 under Smith, then 9 in 26 under Gerrard. That would equate to about 13 goals in a full season, but with an improved team behind him and the focus work with a finishing coach he’s done, he should build on that.
Me too.
Me three. In fact I think him and Ings will do really well this season, Ings will get plenty of assists I think too.
I honestly can't see them playing together that often, it'll be one or the other.
Playing them both and dropping Buendia did not make much sense to me.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 20, 2022, 10:16:59 AM
Post by: eamonn on July 20, 2022, 10:33:33 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 20, 2022, 10:34:37 AM
Post by: Dante Lavelli on July 20, 2022, 01:30:31 PM
That's better than I thought, to be fair. Still a no for me, though. I don't feel his all-round game is as good as Watkins'. If we are replacing him I want a Coutinho-level world class player in his place. Same if we are bringing in a new centre-half. Quite good isn't going to get us into the top four.
His all round game improved dramatically last season. He (or mourinho) made it a priority to develop that aspect of his game.
Source: Tammy in an interview so might be slightly biased.
Post by: chrisw1 on July 20, 2022, 01:39:37 PM
Post by: Clampy on July 20, 2022, 01:48:59 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on July 20, 2022, 01:57:22 PM
I think some people have already got their scapegoat for the coming season sorted and it's not even the end of July yet.Well he made a pretty good fist pushing for the roll last season tbf.
I'd love Watkins to come good. I've said on other threads I think he probably will. Just waiting to see it now.
Post by: Paul.S on July 20, 2022, 02:00:34 PM
I don’t see why Watkins can’t hit 15 this season and that’s where we are at the moment unless we spend £100m plus on one. Then they’d have to agree to come and forfeit a season or 2 without European football. I like Watkins, yes he had an off season last season but he’s capable of much more.
With Ings, Coutinho, Buendia and the emergence of Archer I don’t see why goals should be an issue.
Post by: Risso on July 20, 2022, 02:06:30 PM
Post by: Paul.S on July 20, 2022, 02:18:18 PM
I think there’s more to come from him, I don’t expect a goal glut but as I’ve said 15 is surely within his reach. I suppose it all depends on the system Gerrard plays. He’s by no means a lost cause and he’s still the best we’ve got. Let’s hope Archer carries on his development and Ings can provide some help.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 20, 2022, 02:28:06 PM
I don't think Watkins was any better or worse last season really, it's just the season before he was playing with Grealish who was brilliant and created loads of space and chances. He is what he is, a 1 in 3 striker, with a ropey first touch.
He was much busier, more aggressive and generally better the season before last. His goals vs expected goals tally (I know, I know) were basically identical in each season so the "it was all down to Grealish making more chances" argument doesn't really stand up. I recall virtually no criticism of him on here the season before last, including from yourself. Happy to be corrected but otherwise that sounds like you've decided to dislike a player and are using revisionism to justify your position.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on July 20, 2022, 02:39:06 PM
He should be the main striker as he's shown over the last 2 seasons that he can score well in the pl (especially in last season's struggling team) and with a little luck may even have had 4 or 5 more added to his tally.
Today was all about trying Cam up front with Ollie on the wing, so consequently he was less involved.
I think Ings has more to fear from the emergence of Archer than Watkins.
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2022, 05:23:14 PM
Are there any clubs outside the sky 6 who have a 20 goal a season forward?
I don’t see why Watkins can’t hit 15 this season and that’s where we are at the moment unless we spend £100m plus on one. Then they’d have to agree to come and forfeit a season or 2 without European football. I like Watkins, yes he had an off season last season but he’s capable of much more.
With Ings, Coutinho, Buendia and the emergence of Archer I don’t see why goals should be an issue.
There literally wasn't a single 20 goal a season striker in the premier league last season. Only Son and Salah got over 20 and both play as wide forwards off a central striker. Next season I predict Haaland and Kane are the only strikers who will get around 20 (maybe Darwin Nunez as well but he looks a bit raw).
Post by: Paul.S on July 20, 2022, 07:48:49 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 20, 2022, 08:12:22 PM
I thin to some extent thats what worries me - do we have any other players other than ings/watkins that can make double figures realsitically?Are there any clubs outside the sky 6 who have a 20 goal a season forward?
I don’t see why Watkins can’t hit 15 this season and that’s where we are at the moment unless we spend £100m plus on one. Then they’d have to agree to come and forfeit a season or 2 without European football. I like Watkins, yes he had an off season last season but he’s capable of much more.
With Ings, Coutinho, Buendia and the emergence of Archer I don’t see why goals should be an issue.
There literally wasn't a single 20 goal a season striker in the premier league last season. Only Son and Salah got over 20 and both play as wide forwards off a central striker. Next season I predict Haaland and Kane are the only strikers who will get around 20 (maybe Darwin Nunez as well but he looks a bit raw).
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2022, 10:00:17 PM
I thin to some extent thats what worries me - do we have any other players other than ings/watkins that can make double figures realsitically?Are there any clubs outside the sky 6 who have a 20 goal a season forward?
I don’t see why Watkins can’t hit 15 this season and that’s where we are at the moment unless we spend £100m plus on one. Then they’d have to agree to come and forfeit a season or 2 without European football. I like Watkins, yes he had an off season last season but he’s capable of much more.
With Ings, Coutinho, Buendia and the emergence of Archer I don’t see why goals should be an issue.
There literally wasn't a single 20 goal a season striker in the premier league last season. Only Son and Salah got over 20 and both play as wide forwards off a central striker. Next season I predict Haaland and Kane are the only strikers who will get around 20 (maybe Darwin Nunez as well but he looks a bit raw).
I think Bailey, Coutinho and Ramsey all could and if they stay fit I think they'll get 20 between them. As I've said before my aim for any season is at least 50 goals and preferably 60. If you get around that and have a functioning defence you'll be in the mix for Europe. 25 from Watkins, Ings and Archer, 20 from those 3 and then 15 from the rest of the squad (which includes Buendia and Cash who got 4 each last year), I don't think that's a massive stretch for this squad.
Post by: Risso on July 21, 2022, 09:48:44 AM
I don't think Watkins was any better or worse last season really, it's just the season before he was playing with Grealish who was brilliant and created loads of space and chances. He is what he is, a 1 in 3 striker, with a ropey first touch.
He was much busier, more aggressive and generally better the season before last. His goals vs expected goals tally (I know, I know) were basically identical in each season so the "it was all down to Grealish making more chances" argument doesn't really stand up. I recall virtually no criticism of him on here the season before last, including from yourself. Happy to be corrected but otherwise that sounds like you've decided to dislike a player and are using revisionism to justify your position.
Yeah, that'll be it. *rolling eyes*
I don't dislike him, I just don't think he's good enough if we want to be top 6 any time soon. Hopefully he'll prove me wrong this season, he's got the right mindset to do better, at least.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 21, 2022, 09:56:27 AM
Post by: London Villan on July 21, 2022, 09:59:46 AM
Is he a top 4 player - probably not, but he is a decent PL-level striker.
Post by: Risso on July 21, 2022, 10:02:47 AM
There's loads of players in the top six worse than him. Liverpool and Man City put out close to world XIs every week but there's a fair amount of dross in the rest of them. And even Man City have John Stones.
That's a mostly irrelevant though. You can get away with a player being average if the rest of your team makes up for it. With the case of Stones, Man City are so good at keeping the ball, his defensive weaknesses aren't often exposed there, and Guardiola likes him for his distribution. Watkins is our main striker, and the rest of the team on the whole doesn't make up for the things he's not that great at.
Post by: JD on July 21, 2022, 10:08:43 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 21, 2022, 10:09:25 AM
I am hopeful that it comes back this season. If it does, combined with hopefully getting more chances if we stop with the two up front bollocks and play Buendia and Coutinho like 90% of Villa fans want to, I think he can still be great for us.
If we sign someone like Mbappe, fair enough. Failing that, there aren't many players we can sign who would likely be better than Watkins can be.
I really don't see how anyone can say he played the same in 2020/21 as he did last season. Feel free to point me in the direction of posts that were criticising him at the time. He was one of the best all round strikers in the league and we were worrying that someone like Arsenal might try to sign him last summer, as I recall.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 21, 2022, 10:10:51 AM
Agree Risso, I love Watkins but he is not an out and out goal scorer and that's what we need to move up a level.
He had a better goals:chances rate than Kane last season. I think he does miss a few but people ignore the fact that he bangs in two or three wonder goals each season where he beats half the team.
Post by: JD on July 21, 2022, 10:12:50 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 21, 2022, 10:15:13 AM
Post by: JD on July 21, 2022, 10:19:18 AM
I think you are right Cdb, in that Watkins was a lot worse last season than the season before. He never had great first touch but now it’s got much worse.
Wouldn't we all love him to find it again. Hope he does there's a great player there if he can.
Post by: chrisw1 on July 21, 2022, 10:19:26 AM
Last season the misses started to become more obvious and he became frutrating towatch. His hold up play seemed to deteriorate and his all round game just seemed off.
I quite like Ollie, but last season I thought he was very lucky to keep getting starts. I think a lot of us hope he kicks on again this season, which is probably why we're maybe over reacting to the pre-season misses. It just feels a bit more of the same when we know he should be doing better.
I'd probably give Ings an extended run in the team, but he was anonymous against Brisbane too. Ollie will start the season as first choice, but I do think he'll need to up his game to keep Ings and Cam at bay.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 21, 2022, 10:19:50 AM
CD my friend, I would love our forward future to be the Ollie and Cam show. Both on their game could be frightening for the opposition and totally awesome to watch.
It'll be fascinating to watch how Archer does this season. If we are playing two up front, he'd be ahead of Ings for me.
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 21, 2022, 10:39:02 AM
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 21, 2022, 07:15:14 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 21, 2022, 07:16:08 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 21, 2022, 07:30:37 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 22, 2022, 01:06:59 AM
Post by: sid1964 on July 22, 2022, 06:21:21 AM
Post by: olaftab on July 22, 2022, 07:59:51 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 22, 2022, 03:24:29 PM
Ollie is more of a Sheringham than a Shearer. We need a ruthless finisher. As those are as rare as an FA cup win we may have to wait on Archer developing.except that Sherringham was excellent at controlling and passing a football.
Post by: chrisw1 on July 22, 2022, 03:40:00 PM
And wasn't particulalry quick and pretty much played nothing like Ollie at all.Ollie is more of a Sheringham than a Shearer. We need a ruthless finisher. As those are as rare as an FA cup win we may have to wait on Archer developing.except that Sherringham was excellent at controlling and passing a football.
Post by: Risso on July 22, 2022, 04:23:34 PM
Post by: VILLA MOLE on July 22, 2022, 04:32:08 PM
And wasn't particulalry quick and pretty much played nothing like Ollie at all.Ollie is more of a Sheringham than a Shearer. We need a ruthless finisher. As those are as rare as an FA cup win we may have to wait on Archer developing.except that Sherringham was excellent at controlling and passing a football.
ha ha not the best analogy ever
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 22, 2022, 04:54:26 PM
Yep that's a pretty terrible comparison.
It's a fairly irrelevant comparison anyway, as Sheringham always played with two up front and those days have gone out with phones that have Snake on them.
Post by: Risso on July 22, 2022, 05:02:27 PM
Yep that's a pretty terrible comparison.
It's a fairly irrelevant comparison anyway, as Sheringham always played with two up front and those days have gone out with phones that have Snake on them.
Apart from bits of last season, obvs.
Post by: olaftab on July 23, 2022, 10:17:06 AM
Post by: Steve67 on July 23, 2022, 10:27:07 AM
Post by: Drummond on July 24, 2022, 09:50:51 AM
A three perhaps, but that means shifting Watkins out to the side a bit, in the way that Mane and Salah did for Liverpool with Firmino in the middle. And therein lies the difference, our players aren't as good as that.
Post by: Risso on July 24, 2022, 09:54:26 AM
I think that's why he plays two up top. The problem is that system doesn't really work these days.
A three perhaps, but that means shifting Watkins out to the side a bit, in the way that Mane and Salah did for Liverpool with Firmino in the middle. And therein lies the difference, our players aren't as good as that.
Watkins can't play that role though. He's tried, and just can't do it.
Post by: Clampy on July 24, 2022, 09:59:04 AM
I think that's why he plays two up top. The problem is that system doesn't really work these days.
A three perhaps, but that means shifting Watkins out to the side a bit, in the way that Mane and Salah did for Liverpool with Firmino in the middle. And therein lies the difference, our players aren't as good as that.
Watkins can't play that role though. He's tried, and just can't do it.
That's where he played for Brentford though isn't it? . I think he looks better when cutting in from outwide.
Post by: Beard82 on July 24, 2022, 10:02:37 AM
These 3 are heads above Ings and Watkins and as such we shouldn’t be trying to get them both in, on the off chance one of them isnt shit that day.
I think Watkins is good, but the way we play doesn’t suit him - he does well with cut backs - we rarely do that - but I think he would benefit more from having Bailey in the team than ings
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 24, 2022, 10:05:57 AM
Against 2nd Division defences though.I think that's why he plays two up top. The problem is that system doesn't really work these days.
A three perhaps, but that means shifting Watkins out to the side a bit, in the way that Mane and Salah did for Liverpool with Firmino in the middle. And therein lies the difference, our players aren't as good as that.
Watkins can't play that role though. He's tried, and just can't do it.
That's where he played for Brentford though isn't it? . I think he looks better when cutting in from outwide.
Has never looked comfortable out wide for us.
Post by: Drummond on July 25, 2022, 11:51:50 AM
I think that's why he plays two up top. The problem is that system doesn't really work these days.
A three perhaps, but that means shifting Watkins out to the side a bit, in the way that Mane and Salah did for Liverpool with Firmino in the middle. And therein lies the difference, our players aren't as good as that.
Watkins can't play that role though. He's tried, and just can't do it.
Well that's where we agree. He's not as good as either of the two I mentioned, and having done it at a lower level, doesn't seem able to do it in the Premier League. Which is odd. He's good player, and I think (hope?) he'll be better this season and more like his first. As things stand, there are no excuses for anyone this season. We've had a good pre-season, players haven't got injuries, we've made great signings.
Post by: Risso on July 26, 2022, 10:14:17 AM
Well that's where we agree. He's not as good as either of the two I mentioned, and having done it at a lower level, doesn't seem able to do it in the Premier League. Which is odd. He's good player, and I think (hope?) he'll be better this season and more like his first. As things stand, there are no excuses for anyone this season. We've had a good pre-season, players haven't got injuries, we've made great signings.
Completely agree. There are no excuses for anybody now. Everybody's had a full pre-season, including the manager, and new signings were all done early. No departures of note, so now everybody has to hit the ground running. Watkins could be starting in front of a 3 of Coutinho, Buendia and Bailey. For any striker that has to be an exciting prospect, surely? A mixture of pace, trickery and passing.
Post by: Drummond on July 26, 2022, 01:14:46 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 26, 2022, 06:50:19 PM
But so can Archer, and he's also far, far better when put through. Watkins is a lot stronger though so can probably give himself more chances through that, and his movement is good too.
For me, start with Watkins but if he's underwhelming give Archer is start, with some minutes off the bench first.
Ings is weaker than both and only comes off the bench for now.
Post by: ez on July 27, 2022, 12:03:35 PM
I think he's actually a really good finisher from crosses, his movement is really good in that aspect. If we get the right service to him those positions he'll score plenty and we've got the players to do it.Spot on.
But so can Archer, and he's also far, far better when put through. Watkins is a lot stronger though so can probably give himself more chances through that, and his movement is good too.
For me, start with Watkins but if he's underwhelming give Archer is start, with some minutes off the bench first.
Ings is weaker than both and only comes off the bench for now.
Post by: Hookeysmith on July 27, 2022, 01:51:20 PM
I think he's actually a really good finisher from crosses, his movement is really good in that aspect. If we get the right service to him those positions he'll score plenty and we've got the players to do it.Spot on.
But so can Archer, and he's also far, far better when put through. Watkins is a lot stronger though so can probably give himself more chances through that, and his movement is good too.
For me, start with Watkins but if he's underwhelming give Archer is start, with some minutes off the bench first.
Ings is weaker than both and only comes off the bench for now.
Agreed also
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 31, 2022, 11:12:34 AM
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on July 31, 2022, 11:31:24 AM
I think he's actually a really good finisher from crosses, his movement is really good in that aspect. If we get the right service to him those positions he'll score plenty and we've got the players to do it.Spot on.
But so can Archer, and he's also far, far better when put through. Watkins is a lot stronger though so can probably give himself more chances through that, and his movement is good too.
For me, start with Watkins but if he's underwhelming give Archer is start, with some minutes off the bench first.
Ings is weaker than both and only comes off the bench for now.
Agreed also
LeeB is correct about Ollie, particularly the point about service (which is why I'd like to see Buendia starting). He's a proven pl goalscorer and will coninue to score goals.
Regarding Cam I don't know him well enough to know if he can make the transition into pl striker without easing his way in as back-up first. I'm certainly looking forward to seeing him progressing for us
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 31, 2022, 11:50:23 AM
Post by: dorsetvillian on July 31, 2022, 12:11:15 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2022, 12:26:55 PM
You might all be right but that headed effort yesterday was woeful beyond. He even looked a tad embarrassed himself.
I think he felt the need to add power to it so was concentrating more on a big connection rather than hitting the target, I don't think it was anything like as good a chance as some have suggested, he probably should've hit the target but I can understand what he was trying to do.
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2022, 02:01:35 PM
You might all be right but that headed effort yesterday was woeful beyond. He even looked a tad embarrassed himself.
I think he felt the need to add power to it so was concentrating more on a big connection rather than hitting the target, I don't think it was anything like as good a chance as some have suggested, he probably should've hit the target but I can understand what he was trying to do.
Well presumably he was trying to get it on target, but fluffed it miserably. He had two excellent chances yesterday but his well-documented limitations meant both were spurned. His first touch is abysmal.
Post by: LeeB on July 31, 2022, 02:08:28 PM
You might all be right but that headed effort yesterday was woeful beyond. He even looked a tad embarrassed himself.
I think he felt the need to add power to it so was concentrating more on a big connection rather than hitting the target, I don't think it was anything like as good a chance as some have suggested, he probably should've hit the target but I can understand what he was trying to do.
Well presumably he was trying to get it on target, but fluffed it miserably. He had two excellent chances yesterday but his well-documented limitations meant both were spurned. His first touch is abysmal.
It's weird, I had no concerns about his touch in his first season. Not the velvet touch of Grealish but more than good enough with his all round game.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 31, 2022, 02:13:31 PM
You might all be right but that headed effort yesterday was woeful beyond. He even looked a tad embarrassed himself.
I think he felt the need to add power to it so was concentrating more on a big connection rather than hitting the target, I don't think it was anything like as good a chance as some have suggested, he probably should've hit the target but I can understand what he was trying to do.
Well presumably he was trying to get it on target, but fluffed it miserably. He had two excellent chances yesterday but his well-documented limitations meant both were spurned. His first touch is abysmal.
It's weird, I had no concerns about his touch in his first season. Not the velvet touch of Grealish but more than good enough with his all round game.
I may be misremembering due to the deep frustration I had with him last season, but I don't think he took a first touch the season he arrived. He just finished first-time.
Post by: LeeB on July 31, 2022, 02:15:45 PM
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2022, 02:18:17 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 31, 2022, 02:30:50 PM
It's been reported that he's been using a finishing coach this summer. Doesn't seem to be having too much of a positive effect.But his dining table has a lovely shine to it.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 31, 2022, 02:34:14 PM
It's been reported that he's been using a finishing coach this summer. Doesn't seem to be having too much of a positive effect.
Austin McPhee will call himself anything to stay in a job.
Post by: supertom on July 31, 2022, 02:55:43 PM
Do we need an upgrade for top 6? Probably. My main thought though, is that it's probably easier to work on Watkins' touch and composure in the final third, and his positioning in the box than it is to find a replacement who does his good things and improves his weaknesses. The trouble with finding good strikers is, there are so few of the mythical 20 goal forwards. The proven ones cost more than even we might pay right now. Abraham has his flaws for example, and he'd improve us, but he'd cost about 40-50 (maybe more) and would more likely go to a champions league/Europa side.
So yeah, we either need better or we need Watkins to improve. I'm not gonna get too concerned about pre-season. Most of the side will need a month of real games to get into the swing properly. I'd say we might actually have an advantage from having sorted out transfers early too.
For all his weaknesses, he's still too good to dismiss just yet. We will know better next summer. If he's been a bit found out and can't hit double figures, then we have to look at selling then. He's got enough credit in the bank to be number 9. I also think we probably need to be patient with the long term goals. 10-8th this season is good and doable as things stand. 7th and beyond is very unlikely. The striker who makes a difference to get us there, might be out there, but we either gamble on an unknown entity, or find someone proven. Top 6 strikers generally go to top six sides however.
Ollie came as an unknown. In recent years he's arguably the best who's come up from the championship having netted 14 then 11 in two seasons. We're far more likely to get another Wesley than we are Watkins, if we take a gamble from a lower league. A Benteke? Gold dust. Work on and work with what we have.
Ings conversely, could be replaced given his age and his style of play. That way we can potentially gamble on a rival for Watkins. Then said player either wins the starting spot, or doesn't. Additionally, we need JJ to contribute 5-10 goals, McGinn to improve his tally, and Philendia to get 10-15 between them, as well as a similar number in assists. If Bailey comes good, he'll contribute too. Communal goal sharing is the way forward in the modern game, more than having 1-2 20 goal strikers in your side.
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 31, 2022, 03:04:29 PM
Post by: Dante Lavelli on July 31, 2022, 08:09:32 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 31, 2022, 09:48:59 PM
His control of the ball, general hold up play, finishing is very poor and has been for at least a season. Not sure what is wrong with Ollie. But it's just not happening for him. It's hard to see how we progress with Ollie at number 9 if this form continues.
I've said it before but he's never been the same since his missus had a baby.
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2022, 09:54:24 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2022, 10:23:52 PM
His control of the ball, general hold up play, finishing is very poor and has been for at least a season. Not sure what is wrong with Ollie. But it's just not happening for him. It's hard to see how we progress with Ollie at number 9 if this form continues.
I've said it before but he's never been the same since his missus had a baby.
It’s an odd way of phrasing that comment and I’m sure it probably has minimal influence on his form now.
Post by: Steve67 on July 31, 2022, 10:34:43 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 31, 2022, 10:36:49 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 31, 2022, 10:39:04 PM
I'd rather just have 2020/21 Watkins back. He was an excellent striker. The manager should be capable of getting the best out of him.
That would be great, he certainly works hard and has better players around him now. Make or break season for Ollie?
Post by: Ads on July 31, 2022, 10:44:10 PM
He's a 1 in 3 forward. That's pretty good.
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2022, 11:04:40 PM
Isn't it only Son and Kane who've scored more non-penalry goals than Ollie over the past few seasons?
That's a highly selective stat. It's the last two seasons, and you're therefore excluding strikers who haven't played both seasons. Also, since when did penalties stop counting as goals? He was decent the year before last, and crap last season. He needs to be much better this season, but he's been terrible in all the pre-season games.
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 01, 2022, 09:13:47 AM
Post by: Axl Rose on August 01, 2022, 09:22:13 AM
Post by: LeeB on August 01, 2022, 09:24:56 AM
Or Scott Hogan? :D
You knock Scott Hogan but he is the first sausage roll to play professional football in this country.
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 01, 2022, 09:25:25 AM
Or Scott Hogan? :DYou have gone too far now mate.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on August 01, 2022, 09:49:17 AM
14 goals the season before when the team was set-up to play to his strengths.
Ollie will get replaced eventually no doubt (everybody does), but it'll have to be by someone who will consistently get more than 14/11 goals per season.
Strikers who are capable of getting 15+ goals a season are hard to come by and assuming we can find one with pl experience, who can hit the ground running why would they come to a
mid-table Villa who don't always play to the strengths of their strikers?
Post by: Gareth on August 01, 2022, 09:56:54 AM
Any views on strikers who would improve the team?
Personally, I would like one of my striker options to be able to hold up a ball and also to be a decent threat in the air and wouldn’t be averse to selling Watkins or Ings to find that player, a sort of Keinan that could stay fit & finish better lol. I would now be hugely surprised if Archer is loaned out, think the very average form shown in preseason by Watkins/Ings it’s quite possible by the World Cup break that Archer will be first choice.
Post by: Drummond on August 01, 2022, 10:16:48 AM
11 goals last season with the front player(s) often isolated.
14 goals the season before when the team was set-up to play to his strengths.
Ollie will get replaced eventually no doubt (everybody does), but it'll have to be by someone who will consistently get more than 14/11 goals per season.
Strikers who are capable of getting 15+ goals a season are hard to come by and assuming we can find one with pl experience, who can hit the ground running why would they come to a
mid-table Villa who don't always play to the strengths of their strikers?
£$£$£$£$£$£$£$
But I think he's a good player, causing the opposition problems, his header to lay it off on Saturday was weighted perfectly mas an example.
I think it seems like he's a bit crap because his first touch can be a but wayward at times. I think he'll come good.
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 01, 2022, 10:46:34 AM
This also means his assists are very low.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on August 01, 2022, 11:27:51 AM
11 goals last season with the front player(s) often isolated.
14 goals the season before when the team was set-up to play to his strengths.
Ollie will get replaced eventually no doubt (everybody does), but it'll have to be by someone who will consistently get more than 14/11 goals per season.
Strikers who are capable of getting 15+ goals a season are hard to come by and assuming we can find one with pl experience, who can hit the ground running why would they come to a
mid-table Villa who don't always play to the strengths of their strikers?
£$£$£$£$£$£$£$
But I think he's a good player, causing the opposition problems, his header to lay it off on Saturday was weighted perfectly mas an example.
I think it seems like he's a bit crap because his first touch can be a but wayward at times. I think he'll come good.
Not forgetting €€€€€€€€€€€€€€
Post by: chrisw1 on August 01, 2022, 11:41:15 AM
Sell Ings, sell Luiz, sell Chukwuemeka, buy better player than Watkins.Our net spend from last summer until now is £32m.
If we want another striker we shouldn't really HAVE to sell players to fund it. I think the problem is finding one who is better and will come.
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 01, 2022, 11:44:41 AM
No we shouldnt but the squad is too full of players that are not going to contribute enough.Sell Ings, sell Luiz, sell Chukwuemeka, buy better player than Watkins.Our net spend from last summer until now is £32m.
If we want another striker we shouldn't really HAVE to sell players to fund it. I think the problem is finding one who is better and will come.
But there is a shortage of strikers out there.
Post by: chrisw1 on August 01, 2022, 11:46:09 AM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on August 01, 2022, 12:18:55 PM
Post by: Chris Smith on August 01, 2022, 12:33:12 PM
It's unfortunate we have players who won't make the squad, but we shouldn't hold up our progress because we can't find anyone to pay ElGhazi's wages next season.
I’m sure he and the other players considered surplus to requirements will find a club before the end of the window even if it’s only on loan.
Post by: PaulTheVillan on August 10, 2022, 09:15:08 AM
Or total BS.
https://www.footballinsider247.com/aston-villa-watkins-sources/?fs=e&s=cl
Post by: chrisw1 on August 10, 2022, 09:20:58 AM
Post by: Footy-Vill on August 10, 2022, 09:31:31 AM
I believe we blew it by not selling him to West Ham for £50 million. Watkins' stock is at an all-time high right now, and if Gerrard believes he can't deliver, I trust Steven. I'm sure SG made some harsh remarks about his lack of finishing quality.
I've also seen many people on here believe Watkins, despite his work rate, lacks quality.
Watkins, at the end of the day, is a Smith man. Along with Archer, Ings, with his experience and less sulky attitude, may be more reliable for actually coming up with goals.
Watkins has his advantages, but perhaps the 6 months aren't enough to convince he's our striker and should be starting this season. Indeed it wasn't
Gerrard has both Mings and Watkins, two low-level starting off career players who have risen to the higher echelons of the game, who are about to be left out in the cold. Perhaps his standards are too high for complacent footballers who need to be challenged and who lack the winning mentality that Gerrard possessed as a player.
Its Roy Keane manager vibes but it's shades of how SG is and that's admirable mindset. Though I suspect the communications to players in blunt honesty being less admirable at times regards telling them they are lacking in quality.
Since SG has been here, he has publicly stated and implied that players' quality is off. As a result, one can only speculate as to what he does actually say directly to them , and some players may find it difficult to accept that and at times how they are spoken to.
Post by: sid1964 on August 10, 2022, 09:42:10 AM
The Manager is paid to make decisions, some the players will like, other decisions will upset a few.
Gerrard is not leaving our club, Purslow and the owners will continue to back him, if Watkins, Mings and others do not like the way they are being treated they can always ask to leave.
Post by: Footy-Vill on August 10, 2022, 09:47:49 AM
I seem to remember Ron Saunders falling out with crowd favourites, Andy Gray, Gidman etc.. thankfully no social media back in those days or most on here would be backing the players and not the Manager
The Manager is paid to make decisions, some the players will like, other decisions will upset a few.
Gerrard is not leaving our club, Purslow and the owners will continue to back him, if Watkins, Mings and others do not like the way they are being treated they can always ask to leave.
Great point on Saunders.
I've only since read and watched regards him and our winning team from back then but it seemed he obviously was someone who knew how to lead and manage a group of players successfully. And only wanted players who were fully on board. As well as like all managers making their statement and showing who's boss.
Post by: Simon Page on August 10, 2022, 09:48:54 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 10, 2022, 09:49:03 AM
Post by: Dick Edwards on August 10, 2022, 09:57:09 AM
I seem to remember Ron Saunders falling out with crowd favourites, Andy Gray, Gidman etc.. thankfully no social media back in those days or most on here would be backing the players and not the Manager
The Manager is paid to make decisions, some the players will like, other decisions will upset a few.
Gerrard is not leaving our club, Purslow and the owners will continue to back him, if Watkins, Mings and others do not like the way they are being treated they can always ask to leave.
As much as Saunders was respected by the fans back then I can categorically state we were a very unhappy fanbase at Gray and Gidman wanting to leave, and ultimately being sold. They were two truly exceptional players. You're right though, you have to trust and back the manager in these situations.
I'd also add that Ollie Watkins is no Andy Gray.
Post by: Hookeysmith on August 10, 2022, 01:24:46 PM
Rather than just whine if that is the case
Post by: ROBBO on August 11, 2022, 02:05:22 AM
Post by: Footy-Vill on August 24, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Thing is no one likes being subbed but he seemed to snub Bailey. Who looked quite surprised.
Post by: Ads on August 24, 2022, 10:22:49 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 24, 2022, 10:29:41 PM
Post by: Paul.S on August 25, 2022, 01:27:22 AM
Post by: Neil Hawkes on August 25, 2022, 07:57:48 AM
However, I've noticed that recently he is great at running/showing for the ball and working the channels, but is very poor at running with the ball at his feet, rarely taking on a defender.
Compare to Archer, that can run with the ball, take on defenders, lay off to his teammates and has great positional sense when another teammate is heading for goal/shooting.
Ollie is lacking in these areas, and I can't remember if it's recent form, or if he's always been like that.
Post by: ROBBO on August 25, 2022, 08:01:50 AM
Post by: brontebilly on August 25, 2022, 04:11:16 PM
For me, Watkins plays better as a lone forward, chasing down lost causes and creating space for others. He does not suit the slow build up we seem to play.
Agreed but to be fair his interaction with other players is already much improved this season. Two assists v Everton and laid another big chance on for Ings v Bolton. But our coach doesn't seem to know if he wants to play with 1 x striker or 2. Wingers or number 10s, if we are to press from the front or step back into a defensive line. So everyone will continue to struggle until that is bedded down.
I've been impressed with him so far this season after starting first game on bench.
Post by: boozey182 on August 25, 2022, 04:26:49 PM
For me, Watkins plays better as a lone forward, chasing down lost causes and creating space for others. He does not suit the slow build up we seem to play.
Agreed but to be fair his interaction with other players is already much improved this season. Two assists v Everton and laid another big chance on for Ings v Bolton. But our coach doesn't seem to know if he wants to play with 1 x striker or 2. Wingers or number 10s, if we are to press from the front or step back into a defensive line. So everyone will continue to struggle until that is bedded down.
I've been impressed with him so far this season after starting first game on bench.
He's quite a frustrating player because I think he is capable of much more than he shows, but when you look at it as 2 starts, 2 assists and 1 goal in the league so far this season, he seems the least of our worries at the moment.
Post by: Five Villa Tattoos on September 01, 2022, 10:10:33 AM
We all know there's something wrong in the dressing room and my money is on him being one of the problems.
I work with someone who worked very closely with the Brentford squad when Oliie was there and he's the only player, during his time working there, who he said was up his own arse.
Dean Smith, according to my workmate, was the nicest man you could ever work with however.
Post by: TheMalandro on September 01, 2022, 10:14:01 AM
Regardless of whether we get another manager or not the effort in the first half shown by Ollie Watkins was disrespectful and just wrong.
We all know there's something wrong in the dressing room and my money is on him being one of the problems.
I work with someone who worked very closely with the Brentford squad when Oliie was there and he's the only player, during his time working there, who he said was up his own arse.
Dean Smith, according to my workmate, was the nicest man you could ever work with however.
That seems odd, he’s had nothing but praise from people at Exeter and Brentford.
Post by: Axl Rose on September 01, 2022, 10:14:54 AM
Much bigger problems than this apparent issue.
Post by: Five Villa Tattoos on September 01, 2022, 10:16:05 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 01, 2022, 12:24:56 PM
The fans all liked him at his previous clubs. The staff not so much.
Well, Dean Smith was one of the staff at his previous club and signed him, so he can't have hated him that much.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 03, 2022, 08:26:17 PM
Post by: colin69 on September 03, 2022, 08:28:39 PM
Post by: Ger Regan on September 03, 2022, 08:39:30 PM
Post by: LeonW on September 04, 2022, 02:00:31 AM
Post by: Axl Rose on September 04, 2022, 05:08:56 AM
Other than a ropey pass at the end that nearly cost us he was bloody brilliant today and held the ball up so well.
This. He can be such a good player.
Post by: PaulTheVillan on September 04, 2022, 06:30:54 AM
Post by: passport1 on September 17, 2022, 08:57:31 AM
Post by: N'ZMAV on September 17, 2022, 09:01:13 AM
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on September 17, 2022, 09:23:53 AM
The guy has no support up front, with Bailey and Coutinho almost hugging the touchline under whatever tactics our genius of a manager has going on and no midfield support. You could play Haaland in place of Ollie in our current system and he'd look lame.
Post by: john e on September 17, 2022, 09:38:13 AM
There was one passage of play in the second half (before Ings came on) where Ollie had the ball, but he was surrounded by 4 (FOUR!) Soton players and was inevitably crowded out.
The guy has no support up front, with Bailey and Coutinho almost hugging the touchline under whatever tactics our genius of a manager has going on and no midfield support. You could play Haaland in place of Ollie in our current system and he'd look lame.
In fairness he was also put through two maybe even three times last night with the ball delivered directly to his feet but because of his poor torch and control he lost the ball very quickly a decent striker would have fired off two or three attempts
Any striker will be marked, if you can’t control the ball you’re going to struggle, he’s just too lightweight spends a lot of time moaning sat on the floor after he’s lost the ball
Post by: Ian. on September 17, 2022, 09:39:20 AM
Post by: john e on September 17, 2022, 09:57:53 AM
There was one passage of play in the second half (before Ings came on) where Ollie had the ball, but he was surrounded by 4 (FOUR!) Soton players and was inevitably crowded out.
The guy has no support up front, with Bailey and Coutinho almost hugging the touchline under whatever tactics our genius of a manager has going on and no midfield support. You could play Haaland in place of Ollie in our current system and he'd look lame.
Maybe but I’ll still take Haaland over Ollie thanks
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 17, 2022, 10:03:06 AM
Post by: Paul.S on September 17, 2022, 10:11:26 AM
Post by: Risso on September 17, 2022, 12:16:21 PM
Post by: Richard E on September 17, 2022, 12:35:53 PM
Post by: Ian. on September 17, 2022, 12:42:59 PM
Post by: john e on September 17, 2022, 02:39:11 PM
His touch was very good against Man City and he held the line brilliantly and caused problems. It deserted him last night (again).
I know people thought he had a great game against Man City
But it’s not what I call a good game running around a lot and pressing
He’s not a good enough for the top level it’s as simple as that
Post by: Clampy on September 17, 2022, 03:10:04 PM
Post by: Goldie.7 on September 17, 2022, 10:22:50 PM
Lots want Cam to start, but let's be real? It isn't happening.
Post by: Risso on September 18, 2022, 08:58:40 AM
He was very good against Man City. Running and pressing is what strikers need to do.
Scoring once in a blue moon would be nice as well.
Post by: Clampy on September 18, 2022, 09:55:32 AM
Post by: Drummond on September 18, 2022, 10:30:44 AM
He's isolated unless Ings is also playing and then he's crowded or pushed out wide.
He's not a hold-up player, but when he's playing first time passes or shots he's good. So why not play a way that suits him?
Post by: Risso on September 18, 2022, 10:38:08 AM
Bournemouth are the only team with fewer shots than us this season. Is that Watkins' fault? Or that the supply line is crap?
He's isolated unless Ings is also playing and then he's crowded or pushed out wide.
He's not a hold-up player, but when he's playing first time passes or shots he's good. So why not play a way that suits him?
It's both I think. As I said in the post-match thread, Buendia threaded an absolutely sublime pass through to Watkins yesterday, but it jusy bounced harmlessly away off his useless 50p shaped feet. It also didn't help that Bailey misplaced 60% of his passes.
Post by: dcdavecollett on September 21, 2022, 09:35:48 PM
Post by: Smirker on October 02, 2022, 06:35:20 PM
Ings has to start and we need to start the search for a new striker ASAP. Cut our losses with Ollie.
Post by: LeeB on October 02, 2022, 06:40:51 PM
Was appalling today. Can't fault his effort but he simply isn't good enough. His finishing is costing us points. He might be OK as a back up winger but he's nowhere near good enough to be our lead striker.
Ings has to start and we need to start the search for a new striker ASAP. Cut our losses with Ollie.
Ings is shit. Ollie misses chances Ings wouldn't get near.
Archer needs to play now.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 02, 2022, 06:41:04 PM
Can't score goals.
Post by: Bobby Boy on October 02, 2022, 06:42:18 PM
Works hard, runs a lot, makes intelligent runs.
Can't score goals.
Which, when you are our principal goal scorer, is a bit of a problem...
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 02, 2022, 06:46:06 PM
And every time he shoots it straight and low either at the defender or goalkeeper.
Dreadful
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 02, 2022, 06:46:32 PM
Post by: LeeB on October 02, 2022, 07:00:31 PM
Pick Archer you massive coward.
Yep.
Post by: Bobby Boy on October 02, 2022, 07:01:31 PM
Pick Archer you massive coward.
Yep.
Aye
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 02, 2022, 07:05:45 PM
Post by: Goldie.7 on October 02, 2022, 07:30:44 PM
It's like just visiting a high star resort in Pigeon Point, Tobago then visiting Newtown.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 02, 2022, 07:44:30 PM
Works hard, runs a lot,makes intelligent runs.
Can't score goals.
He's a one in five striker; he needs five chances to score a goal. As for his running, he reminds me of Fenton, his only redeeming feature.
Post by: jwarry on October 02, 2022, 07:48:53 PM
Post by: Drummond on October 02, 2022, 07:55:24 PM
Pick Archer you massive coward.
Yep.
This, over and over again.
He moans about strikers not doing their job yet keeps picking them.
Post by: PaulTheVillan on October 02, 2022, 08:07:10 PM
Post by: Risso on October 02, 2022, 08:09:25 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on October 02, 2022, 08:14:21 PM
Interesting listening to Michael Owen after the game on the stream I watched. He basically said he’s got everything except nous at the crucial moment. He said he doesn’t seem to a have a big picture in front of him ie where the keeper is at the moment he needs to finish
I still think it is his touch that is the problem. It is often too heavy and it takes him too close to the keeper, which makes it more difficult. His poor control also means that he often ends up on his weaker left foot, again making chances more difficult.
Top strikers make it look so easy as they are able to get the ball exactly where they want it when they are in front of goal.
Post by: aldridgeboy on October 02, 2022, 08:15:20 PM
Works hard, runs a lot, makes intelligent runs.
Can't score goals.
Which, when you are our principal goal scorer, is a bit of a problem...
Exactly this. For all his effort, which I can’t criticise , he’s just not a goal scorer.
And we need goals.
Post by: paul_e on October 02, 2022, 08:41:38 PM
With his confidence down I don't think it was particularly great for the manager to leave him on for 90 minutes and then criticise him in the post match interviews.
Post by: PaulTheVillan on October 02, 2022, 08:42:37 PM
Post by: VinnieChase84 on October 02, 2022, 08:43:29 PM
Post by: Risso on October 02, 2022, 09:01:56 PM
Post by: passport1 on October 02, 2022, 09:45:29 PM
Post by: LukeJames on October 02, 2022, 09:57:26 PM
Post by: ozzjim on October 02, 2022, 09:59:34 PM
Post by: Des Little on October 02, 2022, 10:11:11 PM
Post by: Goldie.7 on October 02, 2022, 10:12:35 PM
I think the criticism is over the top.
I think when Douglas Luiz has scored more goals (from corners) so far this season than Watkins the criticism is fully justified.
Watkins is a footballing disaster. His first noticeable moment today was him clumsily trying to control the ball and predictably failing, but it somehow fluked off his knee and he was able to regain possession and go through on goal which he obviously fluffed.
https://streamable.com/0y6qyo
Post by: ROBBO on October 02, 2022, 10:19:02 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 02, 2022, 10:20:58 PM
He used to be good in the air in the box, what happened?
(https://e0.365dm.com/21/11/1600x900/skysports-steven-gerrard-aston-villa_5579131.jpg?20211111084439)
Post by: eamonn on October 03, 2022, 01:18:18 AM
Post by: Axl Rose on October 03, 2022, 01:22:11 AM
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on October 03, 2022, 02:04:07 AM
He’s seemingly incapable of even attempting to lift the ball over a keeper. He just hasn’t got a football brain at all. Lower league playing doing his best, that’s all he’ll ever be.
I was about to mention this myself, he really doesn't lift the ball up at all when shooting. The thought of 'dinking' it doesn't enter his head. It really is baffling from a premier league striker.
Post by: The Edge on October 03, 2022, 08:30:05 AM
He doesn't look up either which is half the problem. He puts his head down while he's running towards goal then has a hopeful attempt at a shot. His goal against Liverpool in the 7-2 was brilliant. He looked up and smashed it into the roof of the net. He seems to have lost that part of his game. He rarely looks up and aims. It's hit and hope with him at the moment. He looks to me to be a player who's lost the confidence in his own ability to score goals.He’s seemingly incapable of even attempting to lift the ball over a keeper. He just hasn’t got a football brain at all. Lower league playing doing his best, that’s all he’ll ever be.
I was about to mention this myself, he really doesn't lift the ball up at all when shooting. The thought of 'dinking' it doesn't enter his head. It really is baffling from a premier league striker.
Post by: Clampy on October 03, 2022, 08:41:44 AM
Post by: brontebilly on October 03, 2022, 08:44:22 AM
Good analysis of him by Troy the boy Deeney on MOTD2. Also highlighted the easy chance he could have served up for Ings to win the game.
What did Deeney think?
Very harsh criticism here, he scores that chance at end (excellent movement to get in the position to start with) and he's probably our man of the match. He never stopped running, hold up play was actually decent, movement was top quality throughout and never hid.
On the flip side, aswell as a dog awful first touch, he isn't a good striker of a ball either really. But I'd keep faith with him for Forest. Gerrard will probably revert to Ings/Watkins.
Post by: Des Little on October 03, 2022, 09:00:47 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on October 03, 2022, 09:29:40 AM
I know all strikers miss chances, but this season and last it seems to have become ridiculous. He's costing us points.
We'd definitely miss his work rate and running, but I don't see how we can carry a striker who seems so hoplessly out of form in front of goal.
Post by: Risso on October 03, 2022, 09:36:15 AM
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on October 03, 2022, 09:43:50 AM
I'm guessing Ollie's confidence has been shot to pieces at BH under the clueless one. The Ollie that performed under Smith with end product is the one we need returning to our team and for me this may only happen when we have somebody different in charge. Keep working hard Ollie and the goals will return.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on October 03, 2022, 11:23:43 AM
Post by: Vegas on October 03, 2022, 11:51:17 AM
Post by: eamonn on October 03, 2022, 12:11:04 PM
Good analysis of him by Troy the boy Deeney on MOTD2. Also highlighted the easy chance he could have served up for Ings to win the game.
What did Deeney think?
Very harsh criticism here, he scores that chance at end (excellent movement to get in the position to start with) and he's probably our man of the match. He never stopped running, hold up play was actually decent, movement was top quality throughout and never hid.
On the flip side, aswell as a dog awful first touch, he isn't a good striker of a ball either really. But I'd keep faith with him for Forest. Gerrard will probably revert to Ings/Watkins.
Deeney was full of praise for Watkin's approach play but highlighted why his shooting was poor and what he should be doing (dinking it in the first half, "leathering it across goal" with one of his second half chances). Also mentioned how much Ings would be raging at not being given a tap-in chance when Watkins messed-up the cutback near the end.
They put up a graphic showing that Watkins was responsible for over 1.5 of our 2+ xG.
Post by: Proposition Joe on October 04, 2022, 06:48:22 AM
Post by: Ian. on October 04, 2022, 07:18:52 AM
Post by: Nev on October 04, 2022, 07:35:59 AM
Post by: Ian. on October 04, 2022, 07:40:27 AM
There is a bit of the O’Leary’s about him.
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 04, 2022, 08:36:42 AM
His interview with Preece and his answers about Archer stink of someone with a massive chip on their shoulder. He hasn’t stopped and thought for one minute how that sounds for Archer personally or any of the fans who are asking the same questions. All he’s doing is protecting his ego.Good comparison
There is a bit of the O’Leary’s about him.
Post by: john e on October 04, 2022, 08:37:47 AM
Work rate and running are fairly easy to replace, you could probably choose from a dozen or so Championship level strikers and get that effort. What's missing almost completely from Watkins is finishing ability and composure in front of goal. He isn't good enough, and if we don't go big for a striker in January then we're going to continue to be lower mid table, whoever the manager is.
Hogan ran around a lot to be fair
Looked like he was being chased by a wasp most of the time and was rubbish
But like you say running bombing about and work rate shouldn’t be hard to replace its the rest of it we need
Post by: VinnieChase84 on October 04, 2022, 09:06:57 AM
Archer should get a run now imo
Post by: Drummond on October 04, 2022, 12:15:04 PM
Watkins is one of those "training ground players". When zero pressure on, his finishing in training is top draw. It just doenst flow into games for whatever reason. He seems to get flustered and his touch horrendous.
Archer should get a run now imo
Sounds like he needs a sports psychologist.
Post by: caster troy on October 04, 2022, 04:40:35 PM
Apart from the fact we probably don't have a system that suits him, I also don't think he's ever recovered from the slow start to last season. Injured for the first few games, then struggling to play with Ings, his confidence seemed to drain quickly. Then a new manager coming in who he knew didn't have the same faith in him. Then dropped by England. With the whole team struggling there is a lot of pressure on him now and it seems like it is too much. I'm hoping he will come good again in the long run but for now it would be crazy not to give Archer a run.
Post by: Risso on October 04, 2022, 06:51:21 PM
I just watched all of his goals at Brentford from the 19/20 season on YouTube (26 in total) and the majority were from crosses/pull backs, not many from through balls, so I don't think we help him by playing without wingers. A lot of them didn't rely on any first touch at all, they were just instinctive finishes. I remember some good solo goals for us in his first season but most were from crosses again I think.
Apart from the fact we probably don't have a system that suits him, I also don't think he's ever recovered from the slow start to last season. Injured for the first few games, then struggling to play with Ings, his confidence seemed to drain quickly. Then a new manager coming in who he knew didn't have the same faith in him. Then dropped by England. With the whole team struggling there is a lot of pressure on him now and it seems like it is too much. I'm hoping he will come good again in the long run but for now it would be crazy not to give Archer a run.
The Championship is a much, much lower standard than the Premier League, it's why you get players like Matej Vydra, Chris Wood and Teemu Pukki scoring 25+ goals a season, and then not doing it in the Premier League.
Post by: chrisw1 on October 04, 2022, 08:10:24 PM
Post by: john e on October 04, 2022, 09:29:05 PM
I just watched all of his goals at Brentford from the 19/20 season on YouTube (26 in total) and the majority were from crosses/pull backs, not many from through balls, so I don't think we help him by playing without wingers. A lot of them didn't rely on any first touch at all, they were just instinctive finishes. I remember some good solo goals for us in his first season but most were from crosses again I think.
Apart from the fact we probably don't have a system that suits him, I also don't think he's ever recovered from the slow start to last season. Injured for the first few games, then struggling to play with Ings, his confidence seemed to drain quickly. Then a new manager coming in who he knew didn't have the same faith in him. Then dropped by England. With the whole team struggling there is a lot of pressure on him now and it seems like it is too much. I'm hoping he will come good again in the long run but for now it would be crazy not to give Archer a run.
The Championship is a much, much lower standard than the Premier League, it's why you get players like Matej Vydra, Chris Wood and Teemu Pukki scoring 25+ goals a season, and then not doing it in the Premier League.
Gestede Hogan, Mcormac
Post by: tomd2103 on October 06, 2022, 12:04:01 AM
He works hard and presses well, but he can’t finish instinctively or when he has time, and he has very clumsy feet.
Thought last season that it was becoming apparent that he was looking increasingly like a player that would be better utilised coming off the bench in the latter stages to give us a bit of energy.
I think it is a fair point to say that he doesn't get a lot of service in games and you rear elm see balls fizzing across the box for him to get on the end of. Most of his chances seem to come from through balls, but his touch lets him down time and again.
Post by: rougegorge on October 06, 2022, 01:49:38 PM
That's true to a degree, although given that getting 20+ goals in the Prem is only achieved by very few players each season, if a player gets to a dozen or more he has transitioned well.I just watched all of his goals at Brentford from the 19/20 season on YouTube (26 in total) and the majority were from crosses/pull backs, not many from through balls, so I don't think we help him by playing without wingers. A lot of them didn't rely on any first touch at all, they were just instinctive finishes. I remember some good solo goals for us in his first season but most were from crosses again I think.
Apart from the fact we probably don't have a system that suits him, I also don't think he's ever recovered from the slow start to last season. Injured for the first few games, then struggling to play with Ings, his confidence seemed to drain quickly. Then a new manager coming in who he knew didn't have the same faith in him. Then dropped by England. With the whole team struggling there is a lot of pressure on him now and it seems like it is too much. I'm hoping he will come good again in the long run but for now it would be crazy not to give Archer a run.
The Championship is a much, much lower standard than the Premier League, it's why you get players like Matej Vydra, Chris Wood and Teemu Pukki scoring 25+ goals a season, and then not doing it in the Premier League.
So you do get players from the Championship who continue to score at around that 12+ level, even if only for a season or two: Vardy, Holt, Ings, Bamford, Wilson, Deeney to name a few. Also Pukki and Wood have scored quite well in the Prem considering the teams they played for. The trick is doing it season in season out.
Post by: Aldridge Villa on October 07, 2022, 08:15:37 PM
Post by: Risso on October 07, 2022, 08:44:19 PM
Post by: Exeter 77 on October 07, 2022, 08:53:47 PM
Benteke rarely smacked the ball and usually made good decisions when in a goal scoring position. He was much more of a placer than a blaster.He was but when he did hit the ball hard it stayed hit. His goal at the Hawthorns in a 2-2 in Lambert's first season springs to mind.
Post by: paul_e on October 07, 2022, 09:07:59 PM
Yes some players can get found out or perform on a confidence high for their first season but a lot of criticism on here doesn't really match with what we've seen him do for us in the past and things like him blasting it straight at the keeper when one-on-one is quite clearly something that has changed in his game. If you ignore this season and just judge the player in that video there's no way you'd say he can't finish. As a club we need to help him and get him back to that player, anything else is wasting him.
Post by: tomd2103 on October 08, 2022, 12:41:39 AM
I think it's worth remembering what Watkins in form and in a team that has a working attack looks, in the premier league: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=147130090783454 (https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=147130090783454)
Yes some players can get found out or perform on a confidence high for their first season but a lot of criticism on here doesn't really match with what we've seen him do for us in the past and things like him blasting it straight at the keeper when one-on-one is quite clearly something that has changed in his game. If you ignore this season and just judge the player in that video there's no way you'd say he can't finish. As a club we need to help him and get him back to that player, anything else is wasting him.
It isn't just this season Paul, it was last season as well. Look, not trying to crucify the lad, as I do like him and as said above, I don't think he always gets the best service.
It might also be that him and Ings, with Archer coming through is the best we can hope for at the level we are currently at. There aren't a lot of prolific strikers out there that we could realistically attract and you only have to look at the centre forwards the likes of West Ham have spent big money on over the past few seasons to see just what a minefield it is.
Post by: PaulTheVillan on October 08, 2022, 08:42:21 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on October 08, 2022, 08:56:12 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 08, 2022, 09:09:43 AM
Get a coach in that bans Ollie from looking at the ball when he takes a chance. He’ll vastly improve then.he would miss the ball
Post by: paul_e on October 08, 2022, 11:08:16 AM
I think it's worth remembering what Watkins in form and in a team that has a working attack looks, in the premier league: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=147130090783454 (https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=147130090783454)
Yes some players can get found out or perform on a confidence high for their first season but a lot of criticism on here doesn't really match with what we've seen him do for us in the past and things like him blasting it straight at the keeper when one-on-one is quite clearly something that has changed in his game. If you ignore this season and just judge the player in that video there's no way you'd say he can't finish. As a club we need to help him and get him back to that player, anything else is wasting him.
It isn't just this season Paul, it was last season as well. Look, not trying to crucify the lad, as I do like him and as said above, I don't think he always gets the best service.
It might also be that him and Ings, with Archer coming through is the best we can hope for at the level we are currently at. There aren't a lot of prolific strikers out there that we could realistically attract and you only have to look at the centre forwards the likes of West Ham have spent big money on over the past few seasons to see just what a minefield it is.
he still got into double figures thoughbut was clearly affected by not having much of a pre-season.
I'm not saying he's perfect by any means, but seeing people call him championship level (and I'm pretty sure someone said he wasn't even that) is just stupid, he's a mid-table premier league striker who should be getting 10-15 goals a season for us, which is fine if we can sprad the goals around. If the 3 strikers we have got 25 between them for this season and the rest of the team combined got the same I'd be okay with that, 50 goals a season is the lower end of what you normally need to finish in the top half.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 08, 2022, 01:59:39 PM
Post by: LeeB on October 08, 2022, 02:51:50 PM
Fun fact. Watkins scored more league goals in his first 2 seasons with us than Dean Saunders did in his first 2 with us.
You still, hate Deano don't you? I loved him personally, I had a great picture of him from 90 minutes on my wall of him standing arms up in front of the Holte End after scoring against Liverpool on his home debut
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 08, 2022, 03:16:16 PM
The point though was that maybe Ollie isn't deserving of all the stick he gets considering how highly a lot of people hold Saunders, and yet he didn't score as many despite playing in a much better Villa side over their respective first 2 seasons.
On the slim chance anyone is interested, during their first 2 seasons Saunders scored 23 in 73 league games, Ollie 25 in 72 league games.
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 08, 2022, 05:37:02 PM
Post by: ozzjim on October 08, 2022, 05:50:14 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 08, 2022, 06:50:35 PM
I don't hate him at all, I just think he's overrated as a Villa player.2 in a cup final too :)
The point though was that maybe Ollie isn't deserving of all the stick he gets considering how highly a lot of people hold Saunders, and yet he didn't score as many despite playing in a much better Villa side over their respective first 2 seasons.
On the slim chance anyone is interested, during their first 2 seasons Saunders scored 23 in 73 league games, Ollie 25 in 72 league games.
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 08, 2022, 09:03:09 PM
Anyway, it's fair to say that Watkins was pretty good in his first season. The decline set in before Gerrard came along, pretty much since the day Ings turned up, but he has never looked like reversing it since his appointment.
It's still entirely possible that he looks a much better player if we obtain a much better manager.
Post by: Neil Hawkes on October 09, 2022, 11:53:16 AM
We need a 9 that has a bit of pace and physicality about them. Prime Benteke style. Got to scout better and be more brave with forwards.Play Cam - he's raw and untested only at this level, but has delivered in spades at every other challenge, including the same level that Ollie was considered and recruited from to be our first choice striker; we're not going to be worse if he's playing and may just become a more successful team.
Post by: SamTheMouse on October 09, 2022, 12:33:04 PM
The decline set in before Gerrard came along, pretty much since the day Ings turned up...
Yep. Weird, that.
Post by: Allan C on October 09, 2022, 12:41:01 PM
I think the decline matches exactly from the day Grealish left. Nothing to do with Ings or indeed GerrardThe decline set in before Gerrard came along, pretty much since the day Ings turned up...
Yep. Weird, that.
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 09, 2022, 01:11:53 PM
Post by: RamboandBruno on October 09, 2022, 01:42:46 PM
I think had Deano had a Jack Grealish putting the ball on a plate for him he’d have scored a lot more than Ollie Watkins. He was far more an instinctive striker in the penalty area than Watkins is or ever will be. Ollie’s best work is outside the box but we need someone who is great inside it. Until we fix that and also create more legitimate chances however that happens we will always hope for a nil for the opponent because the best we will do is score 1.
Different players, but Staunton, Atkinson, Parker, and Daley werent too bad at creating chances.
Im surprised at the figures though. I guess perceptions of individual are aligned with memories of the team. We finished 2nd in the league, won a cup and played in Europe in Deano’s time and scored some really memorable goals.
I actually think we are a worse team without Ollies work rate, he really does need a goal, cliche i know
Post by: Risso on October 09, 2022, 03:20:47 PM
Watkins was still pretty good for the roughly half a season we played with Grealish out injured and, in any case, the lack of Grealish shouldn't affect his ability to win a header, chase down a defender or kick the ball in the vague direction of the net when through on goal. He's been in a strop since Ings turned up, and it has now affected his confidence in front of goal.
Of his 14 goals that season, 11 came came with Grealish in the team, and 3 when he wasn't.
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 09, 2022, 03:26:48 PM
Post by: LeeB on October 09, 2022, 04:32:37 PM
Out of how many matches? Anyway, his general play was better, even when he wasn't scoring he was winning headers and bullying defenders. Abilities he seems to have lost in the last couple of seasons.
No, I disagree there because I think this season his all round game has got back up towards the level of the first season just his finishing that's woeful, but again we don't get enough chances to him from balls crossed where he's strongest.
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 09, 2022, 04:36:26 PM
Post by: Drummond on October 09, 2022, 05:38:25 PM
Post by: Beard82 on October 09, 2022, 06:01:29 PM
Im not sure whos strengths we do play to, mind
Post by: Risso on October 09, 2022, 06:02:55 PM
We dont play to his strengths
Im not sure whos strengths we do play to, mind
He's had loads of chances, he's just missed them all.
Post by: Beard82 on October 09, 2022, 06:05:00 PM
Yeah - I dont disagree - but I think its because he works better with crosses and cut backs and a bit more instinctive.We dont play to his strengths
Im not sure whos strengths we do play to, mind
He's had loads of chances, he's just missed them all.
If he has time to think, he never scores
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 09, 2022, 07:36:27 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 09, 2022, 10:25:35 PM
A lot of his goals snuck through the keeper's legs etc and they aren't going in now. It's marginal stuff and for whatever reason he's not hitting the heights. I think he'll come good again though.
Not sure about that. The consensus at the time was that he was unlucky not to have more goals. He made a habit of hitting the woodwork or having goals VAR'd off for being an atom offside.
Post by: Drummond on October 09, 2022, 11:07:40 PM
Post by: brontebilly on October 09, 2022, 11:17:55 PM
He was taking more risks then, because he was scoring more. Now he's not scoring, he's not taking risks...
He took plenty of risks v Leeds. His movement was excellent, just couldn't finish the chances to deservedly win us the game. His performance v Citeh was the best he has played for us since Grealish left.
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on October 10, 2022, 10:25:46 AM
Watkins is a good front man - however, a poor finisher when he needs to think or take a few touches on too many occasions.Agree with this.
If we got the ball forward quickly and accurately (unlike the present slow, disjointed approach) then he would be a better option than Bailey IMO.
He's also more disciplined out of possession and decent at defending setpieces. UTV
Post by: Flamingo Lane on October 10, 2022, 10:35:45 AM
Post by: Goldie.7 on October 10, 2022, 10:09:18 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 10, 2022, 10:12:48 PM
Post by: passport1 on October 10, 2022, 10:47:28 PM
Post by: Legion on October 10, 2022, 10:50:11 PM
Useless player who needs dropping. It's actually pathetic how many poor decisions he makes repeatedly. I'm 1000% confident Archer would do a much better job than this non-scoring goal scorer.
Same.
Post by: Legion on October 10, 2022, 10:50:53 PM
Devoid of confidence and form and yet Action Man hair keeps picking him.
First laugh of the evening. Action Man hair.
Post by: Jon Crofts on October 10, 2022, 10:57:32 PM
Post by: paul_e on October 10, 2022, 10:59:51 PM
Couldn’t get onto a cross even if his name was Jesus.
We put 2 decent crosses in all game, one he headed back into a dangerous area in thexbuild up to our goal and the other was our only other shot on target.
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 10, 2022, 10:59:57 PM
Devoid of confidence and form and yet Action Man hair keeps picking him.
First laugh of the evening. Action Man hair.
well there is no eagle eyes that’s for sure
Post by: Jon Crofts on October 10, 2022, 11:02:44 PM
Couldn’t get onto a cross even if his name was Jesus.
We put 2 decent crosses in all game, one he headed back into a dangerous area in thexbuild up to our goal and the other was our only other shot on target.
He’s a Championship player at best, league 1 would welcome him right now.
Post by: ROBBO on October 10, 2022, 11:04:45 PM
Post by: Dave P on October 10, 2022, 11:08:17 PM
Devoid of confidence and form and yet Action Man hair keeps picking him.
First laugh of the evening. Action Man hair.
Proper laughed out loud at that.
Post by: aj2k77 on October 10, 2022, 11:19:45 PM
Post by: SamTheMouse on October 10, 2022, 11:35:14 PM
Post by: Risso on October 10, 2022, 11:36:47 PM
Post by: LeeB on October 11, 2022, 09:06:18 AM
He's genuinely awful. A million miles away from being good enough, a first touch like a trampoline and the decision making prowess of Liz Truss.
Harsh but funny.
Whatever you think of his play, several times he got possession facing the opposition goal in our own half and didn't have another Villa player in the same postcode as him and he had to try and turn into Dalian Atkinson which is not in him.
Post by: chrisw1 on October 11, 2022, 09:50:41 AM
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on October 11, 2022, 10:09:38 AM
Post by: Legion on October 11, 2022, 10:58:12 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on October 11, 2022, 11:01:34 AM
He's not shit, just woefully out of form.But how long do you have to be out of form to be classed as shit?
He missed loads of chances last season too.
Post by: Legion on October 11, 2022, 11:03:54 AM
Post by: Clampy on October 11, 2022, 11:07:55 AM
Post by: Edvard Remberg on October 11, 2022, 11:16:26 AM
Watkins is most definatley not shit, that's just angry nonsense. Out of form and lacking in confidence though.He is doing almost everything wrong - constantly offside, can't tame a ball played at him, poor passing. The big problem is that he isn't taken out of the firing line and we as a team are suffering.
Post by: paul_e on October 11, 2022, 11:27:03 AM
Watkins is most definatley not shit, that's just angry nonsense. Out of form and lacking in confidence though.He is doing almost everything wrong - constantly offside, can't tame a ball played at him, poor passing. The big problem is that he isn't taken out of the firing line and we as a team are suffering.
But that's on the manager not on him. As I said last night what Gerrard is doing with him, McGinn and Bailey has caused all 3 to spiral from being a bit out of form to having a genuine crisis of confidence so now they're all trying to win games on their own to prove they've "got it" still.
Post by: stubbsyandy on October 11, 2022, 11:33:04 AM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 11, 2022, 11:37:49 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on October 11, 2022, 12:24:10 PM
Watkins is most definatley not shit, that's just angry nonsense. Out of form and lacking in confidence though.Unless you subscribe to the view that he was good last season, which I dont, then he's been out of form and lacking in confidence for 15 months.
Ross Barkley wasn't shit either. He was good once but just out of form and lacking confidence.
Post by: paul_e on October 11, 2022, 12:28:41 PM
Watkins is most definatley not shit, that's just angry nonsense. Out of form and lacking in confidence though.Unless you subscribe to the view that he was good last season, which I dont, then he's been out of form and lacking in confidence for 15 months.
Ross Barkley wasn't shit either. He was good once but just out of form and lacking confidence.
Well watkins was our top scorer and got into double figures so he clearly wasn't shit last season, even if he wasn't as good as the year before.
Post by: chrisw1 on October 11, 2022, 12:40:24 PM
Him being constantly offside, missing big chances and having the ball control of a broken jockstrap is the managers fault? I'm no fan of Gerrard, but sometimes players missing easy chances need to have to hold their hands up. Whatever the tactics and coaching, he should be able to deliver his fundamental skills.Watkins is most definatley not shit, that's just angry nonsense. Out of form and lacking in confidence though.He is doing almost everything wrong - constantly offside, can't tame a ball played at him, poor passing. The big problem is that he isn't taken out of the firing line and we as a team are suffering.
But that's on the manager not on him. As I said last night what Gerrard is doing with him, McGinn and Bailey has caused all 3 to spiral from being a bit out of form to having a genuine crisis of confidence so now they're all trying to win games on their own to prove they've "got it" still.
Post by: chrisw1 on October 11, 2022, 12:42:25 PM
It's comments like this that lead me to question which posters go to games. Because with my own eyes I witnessed him miss loads of chances that he should have burried. It's from that that I form my judgement that he was off form last season too.Watkins is most definatley not shit, that's just angry nonsense. Out of form and lacking in confidence though.Unless you subscribe to the view that he was good last season, which I dont, then he's been out of form and lacking in confidence for 15 months.
Ross Barkley wasn't shit either. He was good once but just out of form and lacking confidence.
Well watkins was our top scorer and got into double figures so he clearly wasn't shit last season, even if he wasn't as good as the year before.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 11, 2022, 12:43:24 PM
Post by: paul_e on October 11, 2022, 12:52:15 PM
Him being constantly offside, missing big chances and having the ball control of a broken jockstrap is the managers fault? I'm no fan of Gerrard, but sometimes players missing easy chances need to have to hold their hands up. Whatever the tactics and coaching, he should be able to deliver his fundamental skills.Watkins is most definatley not shit, that's just angry nonsense. Out of form and lacking in confidence though.He is doing almost everything wrong - constantly offside, can't tame a ball played at him, poor passing. The big problem is that he isn't taken out of the firing line and we as a team are suffering.
But that's on the manager not on him. As I said last night what Gerrard is doing with him, McGinn and Bailey has caused all 3 to spiral from being a bit out of form to having a genuine crisis of confidence so now they're all trying to win games on their own to prove they've "got it" still.
Your on one today aren't you. Anyone with basic reading comprehension could understand I was commenting on the bold bit.
Post by: brontebilly on October 11, 2022, 01:03:02 PM
I would have replaced him at same time as Coutinho last night. Brought Archer and Ings on at same time and switched to 4132.
Post by: chrisw1 on October 11, 2022, 01:03:30 PM
Yeah I am, because I'm angry and you're defending the indefensible.Him being constantly offside, missing big chances and having the ball control of a broken jockstrap is the managers fault? I'm no fan of Gerrard, but sometimes players missing easy chances need to have to hold their hands up. Whatever the tactics and coaching, he should be able to deliver his fundamental skills.Watkins is most definatley not shit, that's just angry nonsense. Out of form and lacking in confidence though.He is doing almost everything wrong - constantly offside, can't tame a ball played at him, poor passing. The big problem is that he isn't taken out of the firing line and we as a team are suffering.
But that's on the manager not on him. As I said last night what Gerrard is doing with him, McGinn and Bailey has caused all 3 to spiral from being a bit out of form to having a genuine crisis of confidence so now they're all trying to win games on their own to prove they've "got it" still.
Your on one today aren't you. Anyone with basic reading comprehension could understand I was commenting on the bold bit.
And less of the reading comprehension and patronising stuff eh Paul, because from where I'm sitting it's you posting rubbish this morning
Post by: PaulTheVillan on October 11, 2022, 01:07:45 PM
Post by: paul_e on October 11, 2022, 01:30:32 PM
Yeah I am, because I'm angry and you're defending the indefensible.Him being constantly offside, missing big chances and having the ball control of a broken jockstrap is the managers fault? I'm no fan of Gerrard, but sometimes players missing easy chances need to have to hold their hands up. Whatever the tactics and coaching, he should be able to deliver his fundamental skills.Watkins is most definatley not shit, that's just angry nonsense. Out of form and lacking in confidence though.He is doing almost everything wrong - constantly offside, can't tame a ball played at him, poor passing. The big problem is that he isn't taken out of the firing line and we as a team are suffering.
But that's on the manager not on him. As I said last night what Gerrard is doing with him, McGinn and Bailey has caused all 3 to spiral from being a bit out of form to having a genuine crisis of confidence so now they're all trying to win games on their own to prove they've "got it" still.
Your on one today aren't you. Anyone with basic reading comprehension could understand I was commenting on the bold bit.
And less of the reading comprehension and patronising stuff eh Paul, because from where I'm sitting it's you posting rubbish this morning
Please go back and read the bold bit again, he's out of form and his confidence is shot but it's not him that plays himself for 90 minutes every game. I'm saying that he should be dropped and that Gerrard is in the wrong for not doing it, why would I do that if I didn't think he was playing badly?
How did you take that to be me defending him for any of the things you listed? You might think I'm being patronising but I'm honestly not, I just haven't got a fucking clue where you got the idea that I was defending his first touch/offside awareness/finishing from, I never mentioned any of the things you accused me of defending him over.
Post by: chrisw1 on October 11, 2022, 01:35:14 PM
Well watkins was our top scorer and got into double figures so he clearly wasn't shit last season, even if he wasn't as good as the year before.
It's comments like this that lead me to question which posters go to games. Because with my own eyes I witnessed him miss loads of chances that he should have burried. It's from that that I form my judgement that he was off form last season too.
Post by: paul_e on October 11, 2022, 01:43:09 PM
Well watkins was our top scorer and got into double figures so he clearly wasn't shit last season, even if he wasn't as good as the year before.It's comments like this that lead me to question which posters go to games. Because with my own eyes I witnessed him miss loads of chances that he should have burried. It's from that that I form my judgement that he was off form last season too.
Ah, the 'better fan than yow' defence, got it, the last refuge of the bullshitter.
Of course, it's possible for a striker to miss some chances as well as taking other and just have been ok for a season, there are options between brilliant and shit.
Post by: chrisw1 on October 11, 2022, 01:52:26 PM
Post by: paul_e on October 11, 2022, 02:00:10 PM
He was incredibly frustrating to watch last season - in my view well off form. It's carried through to this season. That's the point I was making.
Ah yes, all your posts in the last hour or so on this and other threads haven't bene calling him shit for the last 15months, they've just been saying it was frustrating that he wasn't taking more of his chances, I'd missed that nuance obviously.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 11, 2022, 02:04:24 PM
Or a noose?
Post by: PaulTheVillan on October 11, 2022, 02:16:10 PM
Anyone got a gun?
Or a noose?
I could get my hands on a Goose
Post by: Drummond on October 11, 2022, 02:55:11 PM
Anyone got a gun?
Or a noose?
I could get my hands on a Goose
Not sure I'd fancy getting my hands on a nun...
Post by: PaulTheVillan on October 11, 2022, 03:18:12 PM
Anyone got a gun?
Or a noose?
I could get my hands on a Goose
Not sure I'd fancy getting my hands on a nun...
They score more than Watkins
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on October 11, 2022, 03:23:32 PM
Under our manager Ollie is the top scorer with 10, Ramsey next with 6 and Ings with 5.
I wonder where our manager would be without Ollie's 10 goals in what has generally been a poorly run team ...on second thoughts knowing our ceo probably still at the Villa.
Post by: manic-road on October 16, 2022, 04:03:20 PM
Post by: Legion on October 16, 2022, 04:04:08 PM
Post by: clash city rocker on October 16, 2022, 04:06:58 PM
Anyone got a gun?
Or a noose?
I could get my hands on a Goose
Not sure I'd fancy getting my hands on a nun...
They score more than Watkins
Like that
Post by: Villan82 on October 16, 2022, 04:08:53 PM
Post by: Risso on October 16, 2022, 04:10:06 PM
A competent manager will get him firing again.
They won’t because he’s shit. Utter, utter, shit.
Post by: Villan82 on October 16, 2022, 04:11:51 PM
A competent manager will get him firing again.
They won’t because he’s shit. Utter, utter, shit.
You should take a look at our all-time premier league goal scorers chart sometime.
Post by: ez on October 16, 2022, 04:16:14 PM
Edited shamefully
Post by: Risso on October 16, 2022, 04:26:51 PM
He helped us get promoted for which i like him but i think it's best for him and us to move him on. He may well start scoring for someone else but the fact is it's not happening with us anymore.
Ermmmmmm….
Post by: Goldie.7 on October 16, 2022, 04:27:11 PM
1 goal in 11 is truly pathetic.
Post by: Legion on October 16, 2022, 04:27:54 PM
Post by: Goldie.7 on October 16, 2022, 04:29:49 PM
He helped us get promoted for which i like him but i think it's best for him and us to move him on. He may well start scoring for someone else but the fact is it's not happening with us anymore.
Someone's been on the sauce, nice! ;)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 16, 2022, 04:30:51 PM
Post by: paul_e on October 16, 2022, 04:34:10 PM
He helped us get promoted for which i like him but i think it's best for him and us to move him on. He may well start scoring for someone else but the fact is it's not happening with us anymore.
No he didn't he joined us well over a year after we got promoted.
Post by: Three Spires Villa on October 16, 2022, 04:38:07 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 16, 2022, 04:44:28 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 16, 2022, 04:48:51 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 16, 2022, 04:49:25 PM
Gabollie Watkinlahor
Watkins isn’t fit to lace Gabby’s boots. I know Gabby ended his career very the wrong way but I’d take prime Gabby over prime Watkins every day of the week.
Post by: ez on October 16, 2022, 04:50:33 PM
My day gets worse.He helped us get promoted for which i like him but i think it's best for him and us to move him on. He may well start scoring for someone else but the fact is it's not happening with us anymore.
No he didn't he joined us well over a year after we got promoted.
Post by: paul_e on October 16, 2022, 04:54:20 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on October 16, 2022, 04:58:05 PM
We can't do it now as we don't have the personnel, but we need to play a three behind Ings or Watkins. Two wide players who can actually get quality balls into the box and Coutinho or Buendia playing in behind them.
Post by: brontebilly on October 16, 2022, 05:18:21 PM
Post by: Paul.S on October 16, 2022, 05:20:51 PM
Post by: levico on October 16, 2022, 06:35:52 PM
Post by: Smirker on October 16, 2022, 07:13:41 PM
My day gets worse.He helped us get promoted for which i like him but i think it's best for him and us to move him on. He may well start scoring for someone else but the fact is it's not happening with us anymore.
No he didn't he joined us well over a year after we got promoted.
😂😂😂
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 16, 2022, 07:18:59 PM
Watkins is a useful squad player but if you’re relying on him to score more than 10/12 then you end up where we are. His first touch continues to frustrate but if we really want to move upwards in the future, a squad player is what he’ll have to be.
New barometer for me is improvement in 12 months will be Watkins and McGinn no longer being automatic starters.
You could easily argue both should be sold in the summer given they'll have two years left on their respective contracts. Hopefully that's what Purslow meant by self-sustained approach.
Cashing in on players who've served us well in last 2-3 years and are still of good age to be value to other clubs. I'd rather that than having to sell our best academy prospect every summer anyway (Carney would've probably had 4-5 starts this season the way it's gone).
Post by: Drummond on October 16, 2022, 09:19:49 PM
Post by: Des Little on October 16, 2022, 10:21:58 PM
Post by: Risso on October 16, 2022, 11:09:39 PM
Is he a better wide man than Traore, AEG, Trez...
Trez and El Ghazi, probably. Traore, probably not.
Post by: aj2k77 on October 16, 2022, 11:11:29 PM
Post by: coreyfeldman on October 16, 2022, 11:12:31 PM
Is he a better wide man than Traore, AEG, Trez...
Trez and El Ghazi, probably. Traore, probably not.
I'd have Anwar out wide over Watkins any day of the week
Post by: Drummond on October 17, 2022, 08:48:52 AM
Is he a better wide man than Traore, AEG, Trez...
Trez and El Ghazi, probably. Traore, probably not.
I'd have Anwar out wide over Watkins any day of the week
And this is my point really. He decided against keeping all three and bringing Sarr in and has resorted to using Watkins out there.
Post by: Risso on October 17, 2022, 08:52:32 AM
I'd have Anwar out wide over Watkins any day of the week
I wouldn't, and nor would anybody else in the Pemier League if you can go by the complete lack of any interest in him, or his inability to get any playing time for a deeply shit Everton team last season. There's certainly an argument to be had for Traore. El Ghazi and Trez had shown time and time again that they weren't good enough though.
We don't what happened with Sarr, and anything said is just guesswork.
Post by: ozzjim on October 17, 2022, 09:04:48 AM
Watkins just looks shot at the moment. He needs a few weeks coming off the bench as the option to try and bring a fresh energy or something. There was a chance in the first half when a cross came all the way through to him on the back post, and his touch was just so, so poor for a player at this level.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 17, 2022, 10:08:51 AM
We got the full repertoire of faults, failure to control the ball being front and centre.
Isn't it the (vast) coaching team's responsibility to work on things like this with players?
I don't rate him, but he just looks utterly dejected and bereft of confidence at the moment and I suspect week after week without a breather is making it worse for him.
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 17, 2022, 11:38:21 AM
Yesterday was a perfect example of where he's not up to it.The lack of touch is down to the player to practice, 1 hour a day kicking the ball against a wall.
We got the full repertoire of faults, failure to control the ball being front and centre.
Isn't it the (vast) coaching team's responsibility to work on things like this with players?
I don't rate him, but he just looks utterly dejected and bereft of confidence at the moment and I suspect week after week without a breather is making it worse for him.
Post by: Rigadon on October 17, 2022, 11:40:43 AM
Post by: AV82EC on October 17, 2022, 01:01:05 PM
Post by: manic-road on October 17, 2022, 01:08:43 PM
The shot he had yesterday when it literally went out for a throw-in... But he works his nuts off too. Such a frustrating player.
Working his nuts off should be a given for any player at proffesional level.
Post by: nick harper on October 17, 2022, 01:32:49 PM
He absolutely tore Chalobah apart for 60 minutes but had absolutely no end product.
Apart from the run and pass to McGinn that he hit straight at the keeper. I thought he put in a shift for the team but is struggling with self belief. His work rate will keep him in the side - he needs a bit of luck in front of goal.
Post by: Drummond on October 17, 2022, 01:42:10 PM
Post by: villadelph on October 17, 2022, 03:32:24 PM
I think he needs to sit down with a psychologist and get a proper coach in to work with him.
He needs to go spend a year with the Dortmund U-18s and learn how to control a ball.
Post by: KevinGage on October 17, 2022, 03:35:22 PM
Yesterday was a perfect example of where he's not up to it.The lack of touch is down to the player to practice, 1 hour a day kicking the ball against a wall.
We got the full repertoire of faults, failure to control the ball being front and centre.
Isn't it the (vast) coaching team's responsibility to work on things like this with players?
I don't rate him, but he just looks utterly dejected and bereft of confidence at the moment and I suspect week after week without a breather is making it worse for him.
His first touch has never been Messi or even Merson-eque. But it was plenty good enough in his first season and even at times last year.
It's a confidence thing.
If it's one or two players off colour > it's usually down to the player. 8-9 players off form = usually down to the coaching.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 17, 2022, 07:32:56 PM
He absolutely tore Chalobah apart for 60 minutes but had absolutely no end product.
Certainly gave him a night to remember.
*internal jukebox hell returns*
Post by: paul_e on October 18, 2022, 11:29:04 AM
Working hard it’s an absolute minimum, the bloke is so low on confidence it’s unbelievable - and his ability to control the ball is getting worse by the week - in an ideal world he’d be taken out of the team but that isn’t happening.
If the work rate he puts in was just the bare minimum that you'd expect of everyone it wouldn't get mentioned as a positive thing about him by almost everyone. His workrate is a strength and it is well above average.
If it's one or two players off colour > it's usually down to the player. 8-9 players off form = usually down to the coaching.
100% this.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on October 23, 2022, 05:29:01 PM
26 premier league goals now. He’ll easily break into the 30’s this season if the team continues to play like it did today.
Post by: Aldridge Villa on October 23, 2022, 06:49:08 PM
Post by: astonvilla82 on October 23, 2022, 06:55:59 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 23, 2022, 07:02:27 PM
Really pleased today, that's the Watkins we all know
What, needs four goes to put one chance away? *winky thing*
Post by: ozzjim on October 23, 2022, 07:17:23 PM
Post by: astonvilla82 on October 23, 2022, 07:19:23 PM
didn't want to make it look easyReally pleased today, that's the Watkins we all know
What, needs four goes to put one chance away? *winky thing*
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on October 23, 2022, 07:22:43 PM
Should hope so. 4 goals in the next 26 not too much to ask for surely.
Not if your expectation is only 30!
I'd prefer to think bigger numbers!
Post by: LeeB on October 23, 2022, 07:25:42 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on October 23, 2022, 07:32:08 PM
I liked that when Martinez played him through he didn't fuck about, ran at the defender and fucked it hard at goal. Keep doing that and the goals will come.
That ball from EMI was superb
Post by: Drummond on October 23, 2022, 07:50:51 PM
I liked that when Martinez played him through he didn't fuck about, ran at the defender and fucked it hard at goal. Keep doing that and the goals will come.
Bloke next to me summed it up when he said it was like the old Watkins, taking a player on and having a shot.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 23, 2022, 08:04:01 PM
Post by: exigo on October 24, 2022, 09:55:25 AM
https://twitter.com/ParkLaneStables/status/1584441666563235842
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 24, 2022, 10:19:57 AM
Post by: London Villan on October 24, 2022, 10:25:43 AM
Post by: The Edge on October 24, 2022, 12:32:39 PM
Post by: Towser on October 24, 2022, 12:50:25 PM
Post by: Pete3206 on October 24, 2022, 12:53:41 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 24, 2022, 01:34:52 PM
Post by: LukeJames on October 24, 2022, 10:48:09 PM
Edit. I think 3 of them were for his goal.
Post by: Aldridge Villa on October 29, 2022, 05:43:38 PM
Post by: Risso on October 29, 2022, 05:56:26 PM
Post by: Vegas on October 29, 2022, 05:56:45 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 29, 2022, 09:41:04 PM
https://www.facebook.com/SPORTbible/videos/570894361378737
Post by: Risso on October 29, 2022, 09:42:59 PM
Proof he's practising in training
https://www.facebook.com/SPORTbible/videos/570894361378737
Fake news, can't have been him. First shot was on target and second went over the line! ;)
Post by: Mellin on October 29, 2022, 11:36:49 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on October 30, 2022, 01:57:09 AM
Post by: eamonn on October 30, 2022, 01:49:26 AM
Post by: LeonW on October 30, 2022, 01:51:44 AM
Post by: Rigadon on October 30, 2022, 11:22:15 AM
Unfortunately, Wilson showed him up today in terms of how to finish. An easy one for Southgate if he's deciding between the two.
Can't imagine any scenario where Southgate has Watkins as an option for a world cup, where chances to score are maybe even less frequent than in the league he is already stinking out with his finishing.
I don't think Wilson is much better either as it goes. Slightly less shit in front of goal.
Post by: Risso on October 30, 2022, 12:21:49 PM
Unfortunately, Wilson showed him up today in terms of how to finish. An easy one for Southgate if he's deciding between the two.
Can't imagine any scenario where Southgate has Watkins as an option for a world cup, where chances to score are maybe even less frequent than in the league he is already stinking out with his finishing.
I don't think Wilson is much better either as it goes. Slightly less shit in front of goal.
His record for Newcastle overall is 1 in 2 and half of that was with Steve Bruce as manager.
Post by: gpbarr on October 30, 2022, 12:47:37 PM
Post by: Goldenballs on October 30, 2022, 01:08:00 PM
Pretty sure he will be sold this summer - not an Unai type forward at all
Who do you reckon would want him? Can't see us getting back near what we paid.
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 30, 2022, 01:10:26 PM
Pretty sure he will be sold this summer - not an Unai type forward at all
Who do you reckon would want him? Can't see us getting back near what we paid.
Fulham maybe? Moyes likes busy forwards aswell even if they can't finish to could offer him to West Ham as I assume he'll want to move back down to London.
Post by: Clampy on October 30, 2022, 01:41:43 PM
Post by: ez on October 30, 2022, 01:48:09 PM
Post by: PaulTheVillan on October 30, 2022, 02:21:54 PM
Last week, he was back. This week, sell him.
To be honest, last week he ran around a lot and took 3 goes at what should be a simple goal for a top level striker
Post by: tomd2103 on October 30, 2022, 05:31:19 PM
Last week, he was back. This week, sell him.
He’s not a top flight wide player. He just hasn’t got the quality to play there. In the form he has been in for the last year or so, he is a striker to bring on in the latter stages of games to give a bit of energy in the final third.
Post by: DB on October 30, 2022, 05:32:59 PM
Last week, he was back. This week, sell him.
To be honest, last week he ran around a lot and took 3 goes at what should be a simple goal for a top level striker
Yeah, apart from that goal he didn't do much. We need a better striker than him.
Post by: PaulTheVillan on October 30, 2022, 05:36:27 PM
Last week, he was back. This week, sell him.
To be honest, last week he ran around a lot and took 3 goes at what should be a simple goal for a top level striker
Yeah, apart from that goal he didn't do much. We need a better striker than him.
A striker who is top class at at least one thing so we can play to their strengths
Post by: Des Little on October 30, 2022, 05:37:52 PM
Post by: Mellin on October 30, 2022, 07:52:12 PM
Last week, he was back. This week, sell him.
I said the latter. I didn't say the former. He's not good enough. Sell him.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 30, 2022, 08:47:39 PM
There are mitigating circumstances but it can’t be denied that Watkins is regressing each season.
Doesn't seem to have been the same since he became a Dad. Compare and contrast with Risso who just gets better and better each time he has a bambino.
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 30, 2022, 08:51:18 PM
Based on his first touch and shooting skills, Watkins not Risso’s, it was some feat that he got her pregnant.There are mitigating circumstances but it can’t be denied that Watkins is regressing each season.
Doesn't seem to have been the same since he became a Dad. Compare and contrast with Risso who just gets better and better each time he has a bambino.
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 30, 2022, 08:52:59 PM
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on October 30, 2022, 08:57:03 PM
Emery will need to decide wether setting the team up to suit him is worth the upheaval or we twist and get someone that suits the way he wants to set us up. The big plus with Watkins is that he puts a shift in, and makes himself busy. I think we will keep him, but he will be not be our frontline striker, and that he will improve.
Time will tell though.
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on October 30, 2022, 08:59:54 PM
Based on his first touch and shooting skills, Watkins not Risso’s, it was some feat that he got her pregnant.There are mitigating circumstances but it can’t be denied that Watkins is regressing each season.Maybe he isn't as focussed now. Me I spend more time at work when a baby appears!
Doesn't seem to have been the same since he became a Dad. Compare and contrast with Risso who just gets better and better each time he has a bambino.
How many has Risso got now? I'm on 5, but might be 6 soon if the missus gets her way.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 31, 2022, 02:29:46 PM
Based on his first touch and shooting skills, Watkins not Risso’s, it was some feat that he got her pregnant.There are mitigating circumstances but it can’t be denied that Watkins is regressing each season.
Doesn't seem to have been the same since he became a Dad. Compare and contrast with Risso who just gets better and better each time he has a bambino.
Now I'm picturing Ollie running around the bed for hours, hitting the 'side netting' several times and finally getting a shot off on target. The carpet burns from his celebration after scoring must have been painful.
BV, I've said the same about Ollie; never been the same player since he became a father.
Post by: eamonn on October 31, 2022, 03:11:18 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on October 31, 2022, 04:43:49 PM
I just don't think he is good enough. That air kick on Saturday was so poor and embarrassing.
Post by: Jon Crofts on November 05, 2022, 10:59:10 AM
@DeanJonesSoccer
“All of Ollie Watkins’ problems were related to the fact he didn’t have a strong relationship with Steven Gerrard. There was friction between the pair.” [@GiveMeSport]
Post by: Risso on November 05, 2022, 11:02:05 AM
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 05, 2022, 11:52:28 AM
If this was Sanson or Archer or Freddie or Traore or AEG or Trezeguet or even Mings I’d understand. All binned at some point under Gerrard.
Post by: eamonn on November 05, 2022, 12:05:57 PM
Post by: brontebilly on November 05, 2022, 12:32:32 PM
Post by: Rigadon on November 05, 2022, 01:57:46 PM
Post by: SamTheMouse on November 05, 2022, 02:51:18 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on November 05, 2022, 05:21:45 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 05, 2022, 05:32:06 PM
Grealish leaving and Ings coming in, that's the start of Watkins issues. The constant chopping and changing of formations hasn't helped any attacking player. His back to goal play was never great but at some point the finger has to point at the player. Could he not improve his first touch with additional work at the training ground? Bring in a specialist coach to improve his ability to strike a ball cleanly?
Surely touch and technique are the raw materials that a coach gets to build on. If they're not there, what can they do? You need more than just onions to make a delicious onion soup, but you're fucked if you don't have onions.
Post by: john e on November 05, 2022, 05:45:07 PM
Then he’ll realise that Watkins running around and chasing is great but the rest of his talents aren’t good enough so I’ll expect to see a new striker in Jan
hopefully someone he knows of who’s going under the radar at the moment and ends up becoming a reincarnation of Pongo
Post by: LeeB on November 05, 2022, 05:47:53 PM
He’ll love Watkins for his pressing game, can’t see Ings getting much of a look in
Then he’ll realise that Watkins running around and chasing is great but the rest of his talents aren’t good enough so I’ll expect to see a new striker in Jan
hopefully someone he knows of who’s going under the radar at the moment and ends up becoming a reincarnation of Pongo
Finding a striker that keeps chickens in his front room is going to be a tough ask
Post by: john e on November 05, 2022, 06:50:35 PM
He’ll love Watkins for his pressing game, can’t see Ings getting much of a look in
Then he’ll realise that Watkins running around and chasing is great but the rest of his talents aren’t good enough so I’ll expect to see a new striker in Jan
hopefully someone he knows of who’s going under the radar at the moment and ends up becoming a reincarnation of Pongo
Finding a striker that keeps chickens in his front room is going to be a tough ask
Probably the easy part to be fair
Post by: brontebilly on November 05, 2022, 06:54:07 PM
Grealish leaving and Ings coming in, that's the start of Watkins issues. The constant chopping and changing of formations hasn't helped any attacking player. His back to goal play was never great but at some point the finger has to point at the player. Could he not improve his first touch with additional work at the training ground? Bring in a specialist coach to improve his ability to strike a ball cleanly?
Surely touch and technique are the raw materials that a coach gets to build on. If they're not there, what can they do? You need more than just onions to make a delicious onion soup, but you're fucked if you don't have onions.
All skills can be improved with hard work. Likes of Ronaldo couldn't head a ball when he arrived at Old Trafford but ended up probably the best in the world. I look at some of ours, likes of McGinn or Mings barely able to kick a ball with their right foot and wonder if worked on correcting those weaknesses hard enough.
Post by: maidstonevillain on November 05, 2022, 07:19:42 PM
Grealish leaving and Ings coming in, that's the start of Watkins issues. The constant chopping and changing of formations hasn't helped any attacking player. His back to goal play was never great but at some point the finger has to point at the player. Could he not improve his first touch with additional work at the training ground? Bring in a specialist coach to improve his ability to strike a ball cleanly?
Surely touch and technique are the raw materials that a coach gets to build on. If they're not there, what can they do? You need more than just onions to make a delicious onion soup, but you're fucked if you don't have onions.
All skills can be improved with hard work. Likes of Ronaldo couldn't head a ball when he arrived at Old Trafford but ended up probably the best in the world. I look at some of ours, likes of McGinn or Mings barely able to kick a ball with their right foot and wonder if worked on correcting those weaknesses hard enough.
Unlike Watkins who is barely able to kick a ball with either foot.Grealish leaving and Ings coming in, that's the start of Watkins issues. The constant chopping and changing of formations hasn't helped any attacking player. His back to goal play was never great but at some point the finger has to point at the player. Could he not improve his first touch with additional work at the training ground? Bring in a specialist coach to improve his ability to strike a ball cleanly?
Surely touch and technique are the raw materials that a coach gets to build on. If they're not there, what can they do? You need more than just onions to make a delicious onion soup, but you're fucked if you don't have onions.
All skills can be improved with hard work. Likes of Ronaldo couldn't head a ball when he arrived at Old Trafford but ended up probably the best in the world. I look at some of ours, likes of McGinn or Mings barely able to kick a ball with their right foot and wonder if worked on correcting those weaknesses hard enough.
Post by: Risso on November 05, 2022, 07:54:00 PM
All skills can be improved with hard work. Likes of Ronaldo couldn't head a ball when he arrived at Old Trafford but ended up probably the best in the world. I look at some of ours, likes of McGinn or Mings barely able to kick a ball with their right foot and wonder if worked on correcting those weaknesses hard enough.
Ronaldo was only 18 when he pitched up at Man U though, and alongside his natural skill he's probably got the biggest will to win of any footballer in the last 20 years. John McGinn is 28 and enjoys a night out. There really is no comparison.
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 05, 2022, 09:30:08 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 05, 2022, 11:34:01 PM
Ronaldo always gets hit with the pre Madonna stuff but very few ever comment on his desire to be the absolute best. To do what he’s done and to still do what he’s doing at his age is simply astonishing. Not just the playing at a high level but the training and dietary discipline that he has to maintain.
That's because he didn't want to remain Like A Virgin.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 05, 2022, 11:39:35 PM
Post by: Alex77 on November 05, 2022, 11:54:26 PM
Ronaldo always gets hit with the pre Madonna stuff but very few ever comment on his desire to be the absolute best. To do what he’s done and to still do what he’s doing at his age is simply astonishing. Not just the playing at a high level but the training and dietary discipline that he has to maintain.
That's because he didn't want to remain Like A Virgin.
I still remember his touch for the very first time.
Post by: purpletrousers on November 06, 2022, 01:45:35 AM
Ronaldo always gets hit with the pre Madonna stuff but very few ever comment on his desire to be the absolute best. To do what he’s done and to still do what he’s doing at his age is simply astonishing. Not just the playing at a high level but the training and dietary discipline that he has to maintain.
That's because he didn't want to remain Like A Virgin.
I still remember his touch for the very first time.
Is there a button on here to click to raise the safeguarding alert?
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 06, 2022, 02:23:25 AM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on November 06, 2022, 10:38:32 AM
Nice, all these old men coming out to chastise my error. All I’ll say is Papa Don’t Preach
It's just a bit of fun, I wouldn't get too Hung Up about it.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 06, 2022, 11:40:33 AM
Post by: paul_e on November 06, 2022, 11:42:18 AM
Madonna must be at least 25 years older than him too.
Some of her is, maybe.
Post by: nigel on November 06, 2022, 12:08:33 PM
All skills can be improved with hard work. Likes of Ronaldo couldn't head a ball when he arrived at Old Trafford but ended up probably the best in the world. I look at some of ours, likes of McGinn or Mings barely able to kick a ball with their right foot and wonder if worked on correcting those weaknesses hard enough.
Ronaldo was only 18 when he pitched up at Man U though, and alongside his natural skill he's probably got the biggest will to win of any footballer in the last 20 years. John McGinn is 28 and enjoys a night out. There really is no comparison.
Ronaldo will be talked of for being the greatest Premier League player.
I reckon he’d also figure in a top 20 world best, too
Post by: Risso on November 06, 2022, 12:14:05 PM
Ronaldo will be talked of for being the greatest Premier League player.
I reckon he’d also figure in a top 20 world best, too
Top 20?!
The argument for modern day players is between him and Messi. I don't think many people would be putting another 18 people ahead of Ronaldo tbh.
Post by: paul_e on November 06, 2022, 01:17:42 PM
Ronaldo will be talked of for being the greatest Premier League player.
I reckon he’d also figure in a top 20 world best, too
Top 20?!
The argument for modern day players is between him and Messi. I don't think many people would be putting another 18 people ahead of Ronaldo tbh.
I assume he means ever not current. I think you're still right and I'd go with top 10 but I think it's reasonable and the broader, implied, point of him not being the sort of player you use as an example of what can be achieved with a bit of effort holds true.
Post by: nigel on November 06, 2022, 02:30:46 PM
Ronaldo will be talked of for being the greatest Premier League player.
I reckon he’d also figure in a top 20 world best, too
Top 20?!
The argument for modern day players is between him and Messi. I don't think many people would be putting another 18 people ahead of Ronaldo tbh.
I assume he means ever not current. I think you're still right and I'd go with top 10 but I think it's reasonable and the broader, implied, point of him not being the sort of player you use as an example of what can be achieved with a bit of effort holds true.
Yes, that’s what I meant, just badly worded.
In fairness, you’re right with the top 10, I was playing safe with 20,
Post by: Clampy on November 06, 2022, 05:47:06 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 06, 2022, 05:47:48 PM
Post by: brontebilly on November 06, 2022, 05:53:08 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 06, 2022, 05:55:52 PM
Post by: shirley_villan on November 06, 2022, 06:03:39 PM
Post by: achilles on November 06, 2022, 06:27:31 PM
What really pleased me though was his assist for the third goal, before today he would have had an attempt at a shot but he actually looked up and played a brilliant ball for the on rushing Ramsey!
He might actually turn out to be the centre forward we all want him to be!
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 06, 2022, 06:39:06 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 06, 2022, 08:04:11 PM
Post by: LeeB on November 06, 2022, 08:05:15 PM
Post by: Scovilla on November 06, 2022, 08:32:33 PM
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on November 06, 2022, 08:44:56 PM
Post by: Ian. on November 06, 2022, 08:46:44 PM
Post by: usav on November 06, 2022, 09:55:39 PM
Good performance. We all know his bad sides (first touch and finishing), but when played to his strengths he is a good player. Worked hard, made a nuisance of himself and laid on two goals. Well done Ollie.
Agree with this. I still don’t think he is good enough for where we any to be, but it’s important we get the best out of him while we have him - and that happened today.
Post by: frankmosswasmyuncle on November 06, 2022, 10:07:19 PM
As I've said elsewhere, on today's performance, both Ollie and Tyrone would be in the England squad.
But.....as long as they are doing the biz for The Villa I'm happy....and I hope they are!
Post by: brontebilly on November 06, 2022, 10:38:09 PM
Post by: Drummond on November 06, 2022, 11:10:20 PM
Post by: LeonW on November 06, 2022, 11:11:51 PM
Funny what tactics and a confidence boost can do.
He was brilliant today. Absolutely brilliant.
Post by: coreyfeldman on November 07, 2022, 01:35:33 AM
Ronaldo always gets hit with the pre Madonna stuff but very few ever comment on his desire to be the absolute best. To do what he’s done and to still do what he’s doing at his age is simply astonishing. Not just the playing at a high level but the training and dietary discipline that he has to maintain.
That's because he didn't want to remain Like A Virgin.
I still remember his touch for the very first time.
This shouldn't go unnoticed
Post by: OzVilla on November 07, 2022, 04:12:38 AM
Ronaldo always gets hit with the pre Madonna stuff but very few ever comment on his desire to be the absolute best. To do what he’s done and to still do what he’s doing at his age is simply astonishing. Not just the playing at a high level but the training and dietary discipline that he has to maintain.
That's because he didn't want to remain Like A Virgin.
I still remember his touch for the very first time.
This shouldn't go unnoticed
You can just imagine Emery telling Watkins to Express yourself and it was Borderline his best performance once he was Into the groove - sorry couldn't help myself..
Post by: chrisw1 on November 07, 2022, 08:32:44 AM
Post by: LeeB on November 07, 2022, 09:08:58 AM
Ronaldo always gets hit with the pre Madonna stuff but very few ever comment on his desire to be the absolute best. To do what he’s done and to still do what he’s doing at his age is simply astonishing. Not just the playing at a high level but the training and dietary discipline that he has to maintain.
That's because he didn't want to remain Like A Virgin.
I still remember his touch for the very first time.
This shouldn't go unnoticed
You can just imagine Emery telling Watkins to Express yourself and it was Borderline his best performance once he was Into the groove - sorry couldn't help myself..
Don't worry, it's human nature
Post by: chrisw1 on November 07, 2022, 09:11:08 AM
Yeah, he's justified your love for him tbf.Ronaldo always gets hit with the pre Madonna stuff but very few ever comment on his desire to be the absolute best. To do what he’s done and to still do what he’s doing at his age is simply astonishing. Not just the playing at a high level but the training and dietary discipline that he has to maintain.
That's because he didn't want to remain Like A Virgin.
I still remember his touch for the very first time.
This shouldn't go unnoticed
You can just imagine Emery telling Watkins to Express yourself and it was Borderline his best performance once he was Into the groove - sorry couldn't help myself..
Don't worry, it's human nature
Post by: rob_bridge on November 07, 2022, 09:41:03 AM
Yeah, he's justified your love for him tbf.Ronaldo always gets hit with the pre Madonna stuff but very few ever comment on his desire to be the absolute best. To do what he’s done and to still do what he’s doing at his age is simply astonishing. Not just the playing at a high level but the training and dietary discipline that he has to maintain.
That's because he didn't want to remain Like A Virgin.
I still remember his touch for the very first time.
This shouldn't go unnoticed
You can just imagine Emery telling Watkins to Express yourself and it was Borderline his best performance once he was Into the groove - sorry couldn't help myself..
Don't worry, it's human nature
Papa Emery doesn't preach
Post by: Footy-Vill on November 10, 2022, 09:12:11 PM
Post by: Bad English on November 10, 2022, 10:19:07 PM
Post by: LukeJames on November 10, 2022, 10:23:45 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on November 14, 2022, 01:12:26 PM
Post by: Risso on November 14, 2022, 01:13:44 PM
Not seen any mention elsewhere with the praise, but any reason Ollie wasn't even in the squad? injury?
Feeling ill the day before the match. Same with Bailey, although he was well enough to be on the bench. Nothing serious by the sounds of things.
Post by: Ian. on November 14, 2022, 01:14:35 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 14, 2022, 02:02:56 PM
That was the full Ollie Watkins package today. Lovely goal, tireless work rate and some nice hold up play but also there was the usual bobbles and bad touches (one that even Olsen would've been embarrassed by).
I'm sure I read about Emery having a similar type of player that couldn't control a ball. He had a large box built where the player was stuck in there for 30 minutes and had to play it against the box wall without stopping. Something mad but apparently it did the trick. Oh and don't be surprised if Pako Ayestaran has a hill built at Bodymoor Heath. He's done it before and even if the players don't like it they'll be fitter for it.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on November 14, 2022, 03:22:11 PM
That was the full Ollie Watkins package today. Lovely goal, tireless work rate and some nice hold up play but also there was the usual bobbles and bad touches (one that even Olsen would've been embarrassed by).
Oh and don't be surprised if Pako Ayestaran has a hill built at Bodymoor Heath. He's done it before and even if the players don't like it they'll be fitter for it.
I've often advocated this over the years when our fitness has been left wanting.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 14, 2022, 03:54:38 PM
Post by: Simon Page on November 14, 2022, 04:02:15 PM
Post by: dave shelley on November 14, 2022, 04:09:24 PM
Just gerrum up Barr Beacon.
I used to do all my training lapping the field at Barr Beacon Comp, it was tiered and bloody hard work running up and down that. I'd never been fitter both before and after. If anything will build your stamina that will.
Post by: LeeB on November 14, 2022, 04:23:15 PM
Just gerrum up Barr Beacon.
I used to do all my training lapping the field at Barr Beacon Comp, it was tiered and bloody hard work running up and down that. I'd never been fitter both before and after. If anything will build your stamina that will.
I know those pitches well Dave, bastard cold up there as well!
Post by: maidstonevillain on November 14, 2022, 04:49:58 PM
Just gerrum up Barr Beacon.
I used to do all my training lapping the field at Barr Beacon Comp, it was tiered and bloody hard work running up and down that. I'd never been fitter both before and after. If anything will build your stamina that will.
Used to be shuttle runs up and down "sandy hill", tp one side of Blackroot Pool, for me.
Post by: Smirker on December 26, 2022, 09:09:20 PM
His work rate isn't enough to compensate for his appalling finishing. He's got to go and be replaced by someone who can get the ball in the net consistently. Nothing personal, I actually feel bad saying it. But if we want to get somewhere we can't keep playing the likes of Watkins.
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 26, 2022, 09:15:33 PM
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 26, 2022, 09:33:49 PM
I think he needs to be given the ‘reverse-Henry’ treatment. Where Thierry Henry was converted from a winger to a forward, I think Ollie would benefit from the opposite - being pushed out wide and taking the pressure off (complementing Leon on the other wing).
At present, that realistically leaves us with Danny Ings as our main forward presence. Definitely an area where a bit of January shopping is required.
Post by: brontebilly on December 26, 2022, 09:49:43 PM
I’m not going to chastise him for the misses, as the effort is always there.
I think he needs to be given the ‘reverse-Henry’ treatment. Where Thierry Henry was converted from a winger to a forward, I think Ollie would benefit from the opposite - being pushed out wide and taking the pressure off (complementing Leon on the other wing).
At present, that realistically leaves us with Danny Ings as our main forward presence. Definitely an area where a bit of January shopping is required.
Watkins has been abysmal when played out wide. Lack of technical skills a real problem.
The goal he scored today was a brilliant header. Hardest chance he had. Id be more concerned if he wasn't getting chances but don't think he will ever be the most clinical.
Post by: Paul.S on December 27, 2022, 12:12:27 AM
Post by: ROBBO on December 27, 2022, 01:26:24 AM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 27, 2022, 01:40:59 AM
Watkins has been abysmal when played out wide. Lack of technical skills a real problem.
The goal he scored today was a brilliant header. Hardest chance he had. Id be more concerned if he wasn't getting chances but don't think he will ever be the most clinical.
The chances he missed were comical, if he was a striker for any other team I'd be pissing myself laughing. Sadly he's not.
Post by: adrenachrome on December 27, 2022, 02:00:59 AM
Watkins has been abysmal when played out wide. Lack of technical skills a real problem.
The goal he scored today was a brilliant header. Hardest chance he had. Id be more concerned if he wasn't getting chances but don't think he will ever be the most clinical.
The chances he missed were comical, if he was a striker for any other team I'd be pissing myself laughing. Sadly he's not.
Sad but true. Bailey is no better.
And they are preferred to Ings and Archer. Not great.
Post by: Villatillidie25 on December 27, 2022, 09:10:16 AM
Watkins has been abysmal when played out wide. Lack of technical skills a real problem.
The goal he scored today was a brilliant header. Hardest chance he had. Id be more concerned if he wasn't getting chances but don't think he will ever be the most clinical.
The chances he missed were comical, if he was a striker for any other team I'd be pissing myself laughing. Sadly he's not.
He is what he is. A mid table premier league player. His composure for the offside goal was v good (whether he knew he was offside I don’t know) and his header was great but, as with all players below that absolute elite level, he interspersed the good with the dreadful like the miss early doors.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on December 27, 2022, 09:16:08 AM
Post by: WarszaVillan on December 27, 2022, 09:47:52 AM
Post by: Villan82 on December 27, 2022, 10:21:53 AM
Saw Ollie’s goal. It was a well taken header across the keeper into the bottom corner. 27 and counting in the pl for us now equalling Hendrie and 1 behind Savo and Tayls, so he’s in amongst good company.
Last night's goal was his 28th premier league goal so he is ahead of Hendrie and equal with Taylor.
Post by: Ian. on December 27, 2022, 12:01:13 PM
Post by: LeeB on December 28, 2022, 11:57:16 AM
He played well yesterday and yes probably should have scored before he did. I thought Bailey and McGinn’s chances were so easy it was harder to miss. That’s twice now McGinn has looked ridiculous in front of goal. He never panics like that for Scotland and he would have buried them both.
I thought he played well too, he absolutely ragged Matip all game.
In fact, he and Nunez were almost identical. Contsant physical presence and running, but lacking a bit of composure in front of goal.
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 28, 2022, 12:18:57 PM
He played well yesterday and yes probably should have scored before he did. I thought Bailey and McGinn’s chances were so easy it was harder to miss. That’s twice now McGinn has looked ridiculous in front of goal. He never panics like that for Scotland and he would have buried them both.
I thought he played well too, he absolutely ragged Matip all game.
In fact, he and Nunez were almost identical. Contsant physical presence and running, but lacking a bit of composure in front of goal.
Liverpool are signing Gapko to replace Nunez so they've already decided he isn't good enough to lead line of club who wants to win CL and certainly wouldn't disagree after watching him.
We need to start showing the same ruthlessness in key areas of the pitch if we want to improve significantly.
Post by: LukeJames on December 28, 2022, 12:21:59 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 28, 2022, 12:28:17 PM
I guarantee you they aren't signing Gakpo to replace Nunez.
Well he isn't replacing Salah or Diaz when he's fit!
Nunez is very much a work in progress and not like he's been starting every single game for them this season anyway. Was on the bench for Man. City at home and they started Firmino instead.
Post by: Martyn Smith on December 28, 2022, 12:34:27 PM
All strikers miss some chances. He had four decent chances yesterday and scored two of them (including the offside one, which was a great finish). He's scored two in four games for Emery so not too bad.
Perhaps most of what he does is just as good as it can be from him. But the offsides can be massively improved. He so urgently needs to improve on those
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 28, 2022, 12:41:20 PM
Post by: LeeB on December 28, 2022, 12:43:55 PM
We can buy another forward and still keep him, you know for competition and stuff, or in case on injuries.
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 28, 2022, 12:46:50 PM
Why does he heed to 'move on', like he's some kind of malignant presence in the dressing room?
We can buy another forward and still keep him, you know for competition and stuff, or in case on injuries.
We have Ings for that don't we unless there's going to be a stampede of clubs wanting a 31 year old injury prone striker on 100k + a week?
I'm still hopeful Cam will go on on loan again, score 10-15 and actually get a proper chance next season given it's been a waste of six months of his career.
If we sign a new striker for 40m + and keep Ings and Watkins our wage bill just for our forwards is going to be ridiculous and that would certainly need european football to justify the expenditure.
Post by: Bent Neilsens Screamer on December 28, 2022, 12:48:20 PM
I guarantee you they aren't signing Gakpo to replace Nunez.
Well he isn't replacing Salah or Diaz when he's fit!
Nunez is very much a work in progress and not like he's been starting every single game for them this season anyway. Was on the bench for Man. City at home and they started Firmino instead.
Indeed, he’s only just been bought so he’s part of the rotation of the forwards. They are Liverpool so can afford the embarrassment of riches up front and he’ll compete with Salah, Diaz, Nunez and Jota. Firmino is only a bit part player now and has been fazed out over the last season or so but can still do a job when called upon.
Post by: LeeB on December 28, 2022, 12:55:21 PM
Why does he heed to 'move on', like he's some kind of malignant presence in the dressing room?
We can buy another forward and still keep him, you know for competition and stuff, or in case on injuries.
We have Ings for that don't we unless there's going to be a stampede of clubs wanting a 31 year old injury prone striker on 100k + a week?
I'm still hopeful Cam will go on on loan again, score 10-15 and actually get a proper chance next season given it's been a waste of six months of his career.
If we sign a new striker for 40m + and keep Ings and Watkins our wage bill just for our forwards is going to be ridiculous and that would certainly need european football to justify the expenditure.
The answer is to move Ings on, as he's older, less effective and on more wages.
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 28, 2022, 01:04:59 PM
Why does he heed to 'move on', like he's some kind of malignant presence in the dressing room?he may want to move on for the sake of his career, I was merely considering his wellbeing, and not just wanting him hanging around for the odd sniff of first team football - that'd be no good for him. :)
We can buy another forward and still keep him, you know for competition and stuff, or in case on injuries.
Post by: LeeB on December 28, 2022, 01:15:10 PM
Why does he heed to 'move on', like he's some kind of malignant presence in the dressing room?he may want to move on for the sake of his career, I was merely considering his wellbeing, and not just wanting him hanging around for the odd sniff of first team football - that'd be no good for him. :)
We can buy another forward and still keep him, you know for competition and stuff, or in case on injuries.
Fair enough
Post by: Rigadon on January 01, 2023, 06:51:09 PM
Post by: LukeJames on January 01, 2023, 07:04:40 PM
Post by: usav on January 01, 2023, 07:13:04 PM
Post by: brontebilly on January 01, 2023, 09:01:53 PM
Fucking brilliant for Emis goal, I expected him to try and shoot when he nipped it away from Lloris. Great awareness to lay it on a plate for Emi.
Quality play for sure. Just wasn't sharp enough to get his shot away when Buendia put him through soon after.
Post by: ez on January 01, 2023, 09:11:39 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on January 01, 2023, 10:34:54 PM
Yes if that was Buendia in that position he be trying some back heel in?Fucking brilliant for Emis goal, I expected him to try and shoot when he nipped it away from Lloris. Great awareness to lay it on a plate for Emi.
Quality play for sure. Just wasn't sharp enough to get his shot away when Buendia put him through soon after.
Post by: Clampy on January 21, 2023, 05:30:27 PM
Post by: dave shelley on January 21, 2023, 05:43:12 PM
Post by: andyh on January 21, 2023, 05:59:13 PM
Odd that this morning I was thinking Ollie doesn't seem to score too many headers.Can you think about his lack of hatricks for the Leicester game please.
Post by: dave shelley on January 21, 2023, 06:11:23 PM
Post by: Mortimer's Bear on January 21, 2023, 06:30:02 PM
Post by: Steve67 on January 21, 2023, 06:57:33 PM
He’s flying without Ings…
Like!
Post by: eamonn on January 21, 2023, 07:18:39 PM
Post by: Monty on January 21, 2023, 07:42:59 PM
He said he missed his Ingsy in his post-match interview and that he felt they gelled really well thank you very much even if you didn't think so.
I mean, it's nice they got on, but I'm not sure if you put, e.g., me and my best mate up front that amity alone would make much of a difference.
Post by: rob_bridge on January 21, 2023, 07:48:34 PM
Well done Oliie, nice header. Worked hard as usual. Not bad from the bloke who apparently just runs round a lot.
Tidy finish - maybe he will get better with some proper coaching.
Post by: eamonn on January 21, 2023, 08:06:52 PM
He said he missed his Ingsy in his post-match interview and that he felt they gelled really well thank you very much even if you didn't think so.
I mean, it's nice they got on, but I'm not sure if you put, e.g., me and my best mate up front that amity alone would make much of a difference.
I think he was defending their footballing harmony rather than the friends for life thing.
Post by: SamTheMouse on January 21, 2023, 11:02:07 PM
i.e. not nearly as much as I'd like.
Post by: Drummond on January 22, 2023, 02:11:16 AM
Him and Ings had about as much footballing harmony as me and the fit lass from the bakery down the road.
i.e. not nearly as much as I'd like.
Different rolls.
Post by: Rory on January 22, 2023, 02:30:16 AM
He’s flying without Ings…
Like!
Excellent.
Post by: john e on January 22, 2023, 09:43:35 AM
Him and Ings had about as much footballing harmony as me and the fit lass from the bakery down the road.
i.e. not nearly as much as I'd like.
Greggs !! Thought they were called patisserie over there
Post by: wittonwarrior on January 22, 2023, 05:58:14 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on January 22, 2023, 06:50:33 PM
Post by: brontebilly on January 22, 2023, 07:13:27 PM
Post by: PaulTheVillan on January 22, 2023, 07:24:23 PM
We need better if we want to be better.
Post by: PaulTheVillan on January 22, 2023, 07:24:54 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 22, 2023, 07:32:29 PM
Yesterday he won us the game and played a big part in pretty much every other chance we had. The bigger problem was Buendia and Bailey not using the space he was creating. If either of them had a good day we'd have won by 3 or 4 and Watkins would've played a big part in it. He didn't have enough touches but his job is to be the focal point of the attack and if the players supporting the attack aren't strugglnig that a really difficult job for anyone.
Post by: paul_e on January 22, 2023, 07:34:18 PM
Also, I don’t know why this gets to me. If someone else scores he looks so moody.
It gets to you because you've decided he's not good enough. I'm not saying that to be a dick but we've seen this many times, once a player is labelled as needing to be replaced he's moody (Ayew), too smily (Bacuna), etc etc.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 22, 2023, 07:35:15 PM
Also, I don’t know why this gets to me. If someone else scores he looks so moody.
It gets to you because you've decided he's not good enough. I'm not saying that to be a dick but we've seen this many times, once a player is labelled as needing to be replaced he's moody (Ayew), too smily (Bacuna), etc etc.
I can't believe Ayew still gets games in the top flight.
Post by: Hookeysmith on January 22, 2023, 10:02:04 PM
We certainly need to improve in that position but I would not be looking to move him on for quite a while yet
Post by: tomd2103 on January 22, 2023, 10:08:39 PM
I think some people have decided Watkins isn't good enough and he'll never change their minds.
Yesterday he won us the game and played a big part in pretty much every other chance we had. The bigger problem was Buendia and Bailey not using the space he was creating. If either of them had a good day we'd have won by 3 or 4 and Watkins would've played a big part in it. He didn't have enough touches but his job is to be the focal point of the attack and if the players supporting the attack aren't strugglnig that a really difficult job for anyone.
I think people are saying that we have seen enough of him now to say that we will need a better striker if we are going to progress. Like Buendia and Bailey, he loses the ball too often and stop promising attacks dead.
I like him and his effort can't be questioned, but he really needs to be an impact sub coming on to give some energy in the final stages games.
Post by: eamonn on January 23, 2023, 10:50:15 AM
Also, I don’t know why this gets to me. If someone else scores he looks so moody.
It gets to you because you've decided he's not good enough. I'm not saying that to be a dick but we've seen this many times, once a player is labelled as needing to be replaced he's moody (Ayew), too smily (Bacuna), etc etc.
I can't believe Ayew still gets games in the top flight.
He's a hard-working chap, Jordan. Let's that mouthy bugger Zaha thrive and occasionally has a moment of brilliance of his own.
Post by: OCD on January 23, 2023, 11:02:10 AM
Post by: N'ZMAV on January 23, 2023, 11:05:38 AM
Also, I don’t know why this gets to me. If someone else scores he looks so moody.
It gets to you because you've decided he's not good enough. I'm not saying that to be a dick but we've seen this many times, once a player is labelled as needing to be replaced he's moody (Ayew), too smily (Bacuna), etc etc.
I haven't seen a label on Watkins that says "needs replacing"
Post by: LeeB on January 23, 2023, 11:25:18 AM
I think Emery believes he can get more out of Watkins. And if you look at his first season when he had the likes of Grealish and Barkley around him, he looked a much better player. In fact, some of the interplay on the left with Grealish, Targett and Watkins (like in the Arsenal away game) was excellent at times.
I was on another clubs forum and they'd listed the top scorers from the championship that had moved to the top division, and the comment was that Watkins was head and shoulders above the others.
He's not the best or most natural finishers, but that is only one facet of a forwards game these days and that's just the way it is. You cannot carry a passenger for 90 minutes so he can tap in the odd cross, it doesn't work and the opposition will find ways to make you pay for it. We've just sold an example of it, and getting shot of Ronaldo has turned Man Utd's season around.
His strengths are that he's strong and quick, so he can hold players off as a target man but can also turn them and run in behind, he's fucking relentless and he's generally always fit. I reckon most teams outside of the Champions League clubs would take him and he'd be playing every week.
Post by: London Villan on January 23, 2023, 11:28:02 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on January 23, 2023, 11:39:47 AM
I'd still like an upgrade at some point, but there's no doubt Ollie is a big asset at the moment and I imagine most clubs outside the (usual) top 6 would love to have him.
Post by: KevinGage on January 23, 2023, 11:47:15 AM
If we signed - say Dembele - would Ollie play in the Bailey role?
He would most likely take his current position (or alternate with Ollie). But better hold up play than Bailey.
Post by: Drummond on January 23, 2023, 11:53:58 AM
I think Emery believes he can get more out of Watkins. And if you look at his first season when he had the likes of Grealish and Barkley around him, he looked a much better player. In fact, some of the interplay on the left with Grealish, Targett and Watkins (like in the Arsenal away game) was excellent at times.
I was on another clubs forum and they'd listed the top scorers from the championship that had moved to the top division, and the comment was that Watkins was head and shoulders above the others.
He's not the best or most natural finishers, but that is only one facet of a forwards game these days and that's just the way it is. You cannot carry a passenger for 90 minutes so he can tap in the odd cross, it doesn't work and the opposition will find ways to make you pay for it. We've just sold an example of it, and getting shot of Ronaldo has turned Man Utd's season around.
His strengths are that he's strong and quick, so he can hold players off as a target man but can also turn them and run in behind, he's fucking relentless and he's generally always fit. I reckon most teams outside of the Champions League clubs would take him and he'd be playing every week.
I agree with this. I saw a brief interview with him over the weekend where he acknowledged that he'd not been on top form and scoring as many as he should; I like that recognition and awareness. The trick for us is to have someone who can push him for a starting spot, someone we don't have to change the system for.
Post by: ez on January 23, 2023, 04:39:31 PM
I think some people have decided Watkins isn't good enough and he'll never change their minds.I think you're right. When it was Ings it was because he didn't get any service.
Yesterday he won us the game and played a big part in pretty much every other chance we had. The bigger problem was Buendia and Bailey not using the space he was creating. If either of them had a good day we'd have won by 3 or 4 and Watkins would've played a big part in it. He didn't have enough touches but his job is to be the focal point of the attack and if the players supporting the attack aren't strugglnig that a really difficult job for anyone.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 23, 2023, 04:45:07 PM
I think Emery believes he can get more out of Watkins. And if you look at his first season when he had the likes of Grealish and Barkley around him, he looked a much better player. In fact, some of the interplay on the left with Grealish, Targett and Watkins (like in the Arsenal away game) was excellent at times.
I was on another clubs forum and they'd listed the top scorers from the championship that had moved to the top division, and the comment was that Watkins was head and shoulders above the others.
He's not the best or most natural finishers, but that is only one facet of a forwards game these days and that's just the way it is. You cannot carry a passenger for 90 minutes so he can tap in the odd cross, it doesn't work and the opposition will find ways to make you pay for it. We've just sold an example of it, and getting shot of Ronaldo has turned Man Utd's season around.
His strengths are that he's strong and quick, so he can hold players off as a target man but can also turn them and run in behind, he's fucking relentless and he's generally always fit. I reckon most teams outside of the Champions League clubs would take him and he'd be playing every week.
I largely agree with this. I've expressed my frustrations with him plenty of times on here, but he does offer us something beyond the obvious. I think it's because he's great at the stuff you don't necessarily look at in a game, and struggles with the aspect that should be easy enough for a striker.
Post by: LeeB on January 23, 2023, 04:57:40 PM
I think Emery believes he can get more out of Watkins. And if you look at his first season when he had the likes of Grealish and Barkley around him, he looked a much better player. In fact, some of the interplay on the left with Grealish, Targett and Watkins (like in the Arsenal away game) was excellent at times.
I was on another clubs forum and they'd listed the top scorers from the championship that had moved to the top division, and the comment was that Watkins was head and shoulders above the others.
He's not the best or most natural finishers, but that is only one facet of a forwards game these days and that's just the way it is. You cannot carry a passenger for 90 minutes so he can tap in the odd cross, it doesn't work and the opposition will find ways to make you pay for it. We've just sold an example of it, and getting shot of Ronaldo has turned Man Utd's season around.
His strengths are that he's strong and quick, so he can hold players off as a target man but can also turn them and run in behind, he's fucking relentless and he's generally always fit. I reckon most teams outside of the Champions League clubs would take him and he'd be playing every week.
I largely agree with this. I've expressed my frustrations with him plenty of times on here, but he does offer us something beyond the obvious. I think it's because he's great at the stuff you don't necessarily look at in a game, and struggles with the aspect that should be easy enough for a striker.
Yeah, I agree. I was thinking about his header on Saturday and in general, he's strong in the air in that he's physically strong and can hold off challenges, but when he heads he tends to fix bolt upright and the lets the ball hit him, he doesn't arch his back in the classic style of say Andy Gray or even the way the kid at Brighton took his goal at Leicester on Saturday.
But he's very effective, his movement is actually really good is my view. He's a Duracell bunny but not in an over aggressive headless chicken way like Neil Maupay and that's not to be sniffed at. When we bought him we were supposedly in for Callum Wilson who I think is probably a better player, but he's often out with injuries, which is no use to anyone.
I also reckon Emery loves him, and will get the best out of him.
Post by: Mister E on January 23, 2023, 04:59:00 PM
Post by: Risso on January 23, 2023, 05:01:06 PM
Post by: Simon Page on January 23, 2023, 05:33:49 PM
He's this era's Westwood; fans think he's shite, professional football managers think differently.
Post by: Rigadon on January 23, 2023, 05:40:14 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on January 23, 2023, 05:53:56 PM
We often hear variations on the phrase: "Three managers have decided he's not good enough." In Watkins' case, three managers have decided he is.
He's this era's Westwood; fans think he's shite, professional football managers think differently.
I think those three managers appreciate his pressing which he does so well and fits in with their tactics. I'm amazed that not one went back to look through the videos to see what it was we did when he was a top striker scoring loads. Obviously he's never going to be a technical player, the game and standard has moved on but like so many former Villa strikers, we're hardly playing to his strengths. That said, I expect him to be replaced in the summer and he'll move on.
Post by: paul_e on January 23, 2023, 05:55:44 PM
We often hear variations on the phrase: "Three managers have decided he's not good enough." In Watkins' case, three managers have decided he is.
He's this era's Westwood; fans think he's shite, professional football managers think differently.
I think those three managers appreciate his pressing which he does so well and fits in with their tactics. I'm amazed that not one went back to look through the videos to see what it was we did when he was a top striker scoring loads. Obviously he's never going to be a technical player, the game and standard has moved on but like so many former Villa strikers, we're hardly playing to his strengths. That said, I expect him to be replaced in the summer and he'll move on.
I'm not sure how you replicate 'give the ball to jack' without him though.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on January 23, 2023, 06:08:38 PM
We often hear variations on the phrase: "Three managers have decided he's not good enough." In Watkins' case, three managers have decided he is.
He's this era's Westwood; fans think he's shite, professional football managers think differently.
I think those three managers appreciate his pressing which he does so well and fits in with their tactics. I'm amazed that not one went back to look through the videos to see what it was we did when he was a top striker scoring loads. Obviously he's never going to be a technical player, the game and standard has moved on but like so many former Villa strikers, we're hardly playing to his strengths. That said, I expect him to be replaced in the summer and he'll move on.
I'm not sure how you replicate 'give the ball to jack' without him though.
Of his 15 goals in 20/21 Joe supplied two.
Post by: Simon Page on January 23, 2023, 06:10:00 PM
I think those three managers appreciate his pressing which he does so well and fits in with their tactics. I'm amazed that not one went back to look through the videos to see what it was we did when he was a top striker scoring loads. Obviously he's never going to be a technical player, the game and standard has moved on but like so many former Villa strikers, we're hardly playing to his strengths. That said, I expect him to be replaced in the summer and he'll move on.
I feel the point is managers ask players to do certain things. If they do them they stay in the team. We as fans, on the other hand, often want them to do certain other things.
Watkins is class. If we could get hold of better we would, in every position. Until then, he's neither the reincarnation of Pongo nor the antichrist. I like him, like what he does, but I'd be quite happy to take better when better finds they are in Aston-not-Calthorpe.
Post by: paul_e on January 23, 2023, 06:26:24 PM
We often hear variations on the phrase: "Three managers have decided he's not good enough." In Watkins' case, three managers have decided he is.
He's this era's Westwood; fans think he's shite, professional football managers think differently.
I think those three managers appreciate his pressing which he does so well and fits in with their tactics. I'm amazed that not one went back to look through the videos to see what it was we did when he was a top striker scoring loads. Obviously he's never going to be a technical player, the game and standard has moved on but like so many former Villa strikers, we're hardly playing to his strengths. That said, I expect him to be replaced in the summer and he'll move on.
I'm not sure how you replicate 'give the ball to jack' without him though.
Of his 15 goals in 20/21 Joe supplied two.
so you don't think having Grealish pull defenders out of position and create big gaps for Watkins to run into had any impact on him scoring so many goals? Also how many times did Grealish have the assist of the assist?
Let's not rewrite history because he's left, up until Christmas that season Grealish was one of the top 3-4 players in the league and his presence changed games for us on an almost weekly basis, Watkins is one of a number of players who benefitted from that and our trouble under Smith last season was that he couldn't find a way to replace that. Gerrard tried for a while but then lost the plot as soon as his only tactic got worked out. Emery seems to be finding ways to do it and Watkins now has 2 goals and 2 assists in 6 league matches (and he went off after half an hour in one of those) so he's clearly added some end product to his game on top of the dirty work that managers like from him.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on January 23, 2023, 06:49:02 PM
We often hear variations on the phrase: "Three managers have decided he's not good enough." In Watkins' case, three managers have decided he is.
He's this era's Westwood; fans think he's shite, professional football managers think differently.
I think those three managers appreciate his pressing which he does so well and fits in with their tactics. I'm amazed that not one went back to look through the videos to see what it was we did when he was a top striker scoring loads. Obviously he's never going to be a technical player, the game and standard has moved on but like so many former Villa strikers, we're hardly playing to his strengths. That said, I expect him to be replaced in the summer and he'll move on.
I'm not sure how you replicate 'give the ball to jack' without him though.
Of his 15 goals in 20/21 Joe supplied two.
so you don't think having Grealish pull defenders out of position and create big gaps for Watkins to run into had any impact on him scoring so many goals? Also how many times did Grealish have the assist of the assist?
Let's not rewrite history because he's left, up until Christmas that season Grealish was one of the top 3-4 players in the league and his presence changed games for us on an almost weekly basis, Watkins is one of a number of players who benefitted from that and our trouble under Smith last season was that he couldn't find a way to replace that. Gerrard tried for a while but then lost the plot as soon as his only tactic got worked out. Emery seems to be finding ways to do it and Watkins now has 2 goals and 2 assists in 6 league matches (and he went off after half an hour in one of those) so he's clearly added some end product to his game on top of the dirty work that managers like from him.
Ollie managed 12 goals the season after without Joe, wonder how that happened? I'll give you a clue, all minus a penalty and a corner were on the counter attack. He needs space (as he's technically poor) to run into and with it he can create and score by himself. It's what he's good at and a great quality to have. Slow build ups requiring one touch moves through a crowded area is not playing to his strengths. The opposite in fact.
Post by: paul_e on January 23, 2023, 07:24:15 PM
Ollie managed 12 goals the season after without Joe, wonder how that happened? I'll give you a clue, all minus a penalty and a corner were on the counter attack. He needs space (as he's technically poor) to run into and with it he can create and score by himself. It's what he's good at and a great quality to have. Slow build ups requiring one touch moves through a crowded area is not playing to his strengths. The opposite in fact.
Don't be so patronising, you can't have it both ways, either none of the 3 managers 'went back to look at what worked' or he scored a decent return of 12 goals under 2 of them and has started well under the 3rd.
You're correct that last season he scored on the counter-attack because that was pretty much the only tactic Gerrard had, the season before he benefitted heavily from Grealish creating gaps because that was the only tactic we needed and this season he's learning how to find space in a new way of playing.
Post by: Olof's Beard on January 23, 2023, 07:50:00 PM
We often hear variations on the phrase: "Three managers have decided he's not good enough." In Watkins' case, three managers have decided he is.
He's this era's Westwood; fans think he's shite, professional football managers think differently.
I think those three managers appreciate his pressing which he does so well and fits in with their tactics. I'm amazed that not one went back to look through the videos to see what it was we did when he was a top striker scoring loads. Obviously he's never going to be a technical player, the game and standard has moved on but like so many former Villa strikers, we're hardly playing to his strengths. That said, I expect him to be replaced in the summer and he'll move on.
I'm not sure how you replicate 'give the ball to jack' without him though.
Of his 15 goals in 20/21 Joe supplied two.
Not sure about this. I haven't even tried to think back but I can remember him supplying two assists for Watkins in the Liverpool game alone and at least one at Arsenal.
Watkins without doubt benefitted from Grealish as any forward would have done that season.
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 23, 2023, 07:55:07 PM
We often hear variations on the phrase: "Three managers have decided he's not good enough." In Watkins' case, three managers have decided he is.And 3 managers have had little alternative.
He's this era's Westwood; fans think he's shite, professional football managers think differently.
I appreciate his work rate and commitment. He puts himself about and has good mobility. His first touch is poor and he is not a natural finisher. He is the best we have at this time and I can see him being around for a while yet.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 23, 2023, 08:18:21 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on January 23, 2023, 08:27:43 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 23, 2023, 08:33:20 PM
he's our best centre forward. Whilst we're currently a bottom half team, he's good enough - when we're up towards that top 6, we'll need another striker.I think we will need one to get us there.
Post by: VILLA MOLE on January 23, 2023, 08:38:44 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 23, 2023, 09:08:30 PM
We often hear variations on the phrase: "Three managers have decided he's not good enough." In Watkins' case, three managers have decided he is.
He's this era's Westwood; fans think he's shite, professional football managers think differently.
Three managers have thought he was better than Wesley, Danny Ings and some untried kids respectively!!
I don’t want to be overly critical of him though, as I like him. He works hard and can be a real nuisance for defenders on his day.
I do think we need a better option up front though if we are going to progress into the top reaches of the division - a more clinical striker with better link-up play, but they aren’t easy to find.
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 23, 2023, 09:15:03 PM
I agree mate, but maybe we could find the right player to play up with him.We often hear variations on the phrase: "Three managers have decided he's not good enough." In Watkins' case, three managers have decided he is.
He's this era's Westwood; fans think he's shite, professional football managers think differently.
Three managers have thought he was better than Wesley, Danny Ings and some untried kids respectively!!
I don’t want to be overly critical of him though, as I like him. He works hard and can be a real nuisance for defenders on his day.
I do think we need a better option up front though if we are going to progress into the top reaches of the division - a more clinical striker with better link-up play, but they aren’t easy to find.
Post by: Risso on January 23, 2023, 10:29:02 PM
he's our best centre forward. Whilst we're currently a bottom half team, he's good enough - when we're up towards that top 6, we'll need another striker.
He's our only centre forward. Emery has already said that Duran isn't going to be ready for the Premier League.
Post by: VILLA MOLE on January 23, 2023, 10:45:42 PM
he's our best centre forward. Whilst we're currently a bottom half team, he's good enough - when we're up towards that top 6, we'll need another striker.
He's our only centre forward. Emery has already said that Duran isn't going to be ready for the Premier League.
I think he will have some cameos though , i am quite interested to see how he does as he is a unit and looks quick
Post by: pauliewalnuts on January 23, 2023, 11:59:04 PM
he's our best centre forward. Whilst we're currently a bottom half team, he's good enough - when we're up towards that top 6, we'll need another striker.
He's our only centre forward. Emery has already said that Duran isn't going to be ready for the Premier League.
I think he will have some cameos though , i am quite interested to see how he does as he is a unit and looks quick
Yeah, the problem is, the way we are at the moment, he is literally our only other striker.
Post by: Simon Page on January 24, 2023, 05:32:17 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on January 31, 2023, 03:52:56 PM
I thinking he'll be hard pushed to get 15+ but anything close and thats a great effort.
Post by: Smithy on January 31, 2023, 03:58:20 PM
It's pushing it to suggest three managers have shrugged and said: "He'll do." We haven't been short of a few bob or under a transfer embargo, instead happily shelling out for more than a few minor upgrades and retrogrades (plus some gems) all over the pitch. He's clearly the type of player managers love because he does what they ask of him. Of course, I'd also love him to score more and control every ball with effortless grace. Ditto every player we've ever had. But if the bosses really thought Watkins was a weak link they'd have at least tried to replace him.
It's a good point, he often plays as a lone forward, but does the pressing work of two Danny Ings'. I'm sure that's a delight for managers who expect their teams to press from the front. I don't think Ollie is EVER going to be a 20-goal a season player, but that's okay. As long as he is contributing to the team play, and getting a few goals and assists along the way, maybe that's enough. There will probably come a point where his chance conversion is going to cost us more than his work rate benefits us, but the only people who can really make that determination are the coaching staff.
Post by: Risso on January 31, 2023, 05:22:05 PM
If Ollie averages a goal everyvother game to rest of season he can get 9 more goals and hes had 4 already.
He's not going to do that though, I be surprised if he gets to double figures.
Post by: Drummond on January 31, 2023, 05:31:47 PM
If Ollie averages a goal everyvother game to rest of season he can get 9 more goals and hes had 4 already.
He's not going to do that though, I be surprised if he gets to double figures.
Ah harrrr! Pieces of eight..
Post by: jwarry on February 04, 2023, 04:48:45 AM
“Now I have definitely learnt under this manager to stay in my position and believe the opportunities will come and be ready to take those opportunities,” Watkins added. “Before I wanted to always try to get involved and touch the ball. That was my natural instinct to be involved in the game at all times.
“Whereas now I am probably content if I am drifting out of the game for 10-15 minutes because I know if I stay in my position up top it is important for the team and I will get an opportunity. I am holding my position more and waiting for my team-mates to find me rather than be impatient.”
Post by: Footy-Vill on February 13, 2023, 12:15:18 AM
Well he's always made double figures in his 2 Premier league season so whats the surprise exactly?If Ollie averages a goal everyvother game to rest of season he can get 9 more goals and hes had 4 already.
He's not going to do that though, I be surprised if he gets to double figures.
Has scored in each of the last three games and is demonstrating consistent goal-scoring ability in this 3 match goal-scoring streak. This season, he has 6 goals. 4 more goals in 16 matches to reach double figures
Record:93 games and 31 goals is a 1 in 3 goal scoring since he's been in Prem
If Watkins does one every three games, he will have scored 11 goals. That would match last season.
If he hits once every two games, his total is 14. That would match 20/21 season.
I think Emery will challenge him to get his Premier league best tally so 15+
Under Emery, OW has a chance for improvement in the goal department.
Post by: Footy-Vill on February 13, 2023, 12:21:12 AM
In any case, adding another striker capable of scoring 18+ league goals to the team would be an upgrade that must be coming in. Watkins, on the other hand, has until the end of the season to show what numbers he'll deliver, and if he hits real form and is clinical, he needs to show us all that he can fire 15. That would be fantastic effort by him and for him and the team.
Imagine if he had taken more of his chances Watkins would be a 20 goal striker no issue. If Emery can get him the composure, movement, and clinical finishing help from the coaches it's possible.
If he's to remain an 11-14 goal striker, then he's chiefly back up or to be deployed as wide forward and not main striker next season.
Post by: manic-road on February 13, 2023, 08:20:43 AM
Post by: Drummond on February 13, 2023, 08:49:23 AM
Scored in his last three league games now so should be full of confidence, I thought it was a nice finish yesterday.
He's getting back to the form he had a while back, burst through with pace and hit it early. Was chuffed for him again.
Post by: AV82EC on February 13, 2023, 08:50:11 AM
Post by: brontebilly on February 13, 2023, 10:48:51 AM
Scored in his last three league games now so should be full of confidence, I thought it was a nice finish yesterday.
Nice one, just passed it by the keeper. Very unlike Ollie really. Good ball from Luiz too, he is totting up the assists for us.
Post by: LeeB on February 13, 2023, 10:50:46 AM
Scored in his last three league games now so should be full of confidence, I thought it was a nice finish yesterday.
Nice one, just passed it by the keeper. Very unlike Ollie really. Good ball from Luiz too, he is totting up the assists for us.
Made the space to do with his touch before as well
Post by: Footy-Vill on February 13, 2023, 11:57:36 AM
You get the sense he’s being coached and pushed a bit to think about his game rather than just run about a lot.Yes I think thats a great observation and Watkins seems like someone who is willing to learn and follow instructions.
He's great for the team but also is remembering his responsibilities to score.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on February 13, 2023, 12:03:16 PM
Scored in his last three league games now so should be full of confidence, I thought it was a nice finish yesterday.
Nice one, just passed it by the keeper. Very unlike Ollie really. Good ball from Luiz too, he is totting up the assists for us.
Made the space to do with his touch before as well
If Emi let that goal in in that manner I would/t be happy at all. Olly hit the target and got his goal and you can't ask for any more. Was decent in the air too won stuff you wouldn't normally expect him to.
Post by: LeeB on February 13, 2023, 12:09:09 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on February 13, 2023, 04:23:25 PM
How many Premier League goals do you expect Ollie Watkins to score this season?
Currently on 6 with 16 more possible matches this season for him to play in.
Total:
a)6-9 not to score again or only 1,2 or 3 goals.
b)10: 4 more but in total 1 less than last season
c)11: as many as he scored last season 21/22
d)12-13: 1 to 2 more than last season
e)14: as many as he scored in his 20/21 first Premier League season
f)15+: would be his best ever goals tally in his three seasons.
I'm going f) and for 15 exactly.
Watkins to score 9 more goals.
Post by: AV82EC on February 13, 2023, 05:21:39 PM
It's a subtle thing but that touch slightly to the right means the keeper shifts slightly too, meaning an accurate shot across him is more likely to find the net. It's the kind of thing that you can coach and can make a big difference, he took it really well and looked like a proper centre forward doing it, which is not always the case for Ollie in that kind of position.
Bloody hell coaching players to be better at core skills, what is this sorcery….
Post by: Steve67 on February 13, 2023, 05:30:45 PM
Post by: LeeB on February 13, 2023, 05:34:00 PM
Footy, 12 minimum.
That's no good, he'd be out in 6
Post by: Simon Page on February 13, 2023, 05:35:23 PM
Post by: brontebilly on February 13, 2023, 05:44:35 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 13, 2023, 07:03:44 PM
You get the sense he’s being coached and pushed a bit to think about his game rather than just run about a lot.
I hope you're right. If Emery can make a decent footballer out of him I'll be well impressed. The comment about staying up the pitch makes so much sense, it's so frustrating watching us with all eleven players 15 yards in our own half, only to see the balled cleared and there's nobody there, it just comes back.
Credit to Watkins for his goal yesterday, I'd forgotten he was on the pitch, not all his fault granted but when we do get a chance we have to be far more clinical and he certainly was. Great strike, it was both the accuracy and power that made the Citeh keeper look flat footed. Duran also put a great ball into the box for him, he didn't get it but it was great to see Watkins at least being fed the type of ball he thrives on. Let's pray he continues to score, it will certainly drive his price up come the summer where hopefully we can have a massive upgrade.
Post by: Risso on February 13, 2023, 07:35:00 PM
Post by: Dante Lavelli on February 13, 2023, 07:43:15 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 13, 2023, 07:58:03 PM
A blessing for Watkins is that to justify replacing him you’re either looking at a £60m+ player or a series of punts on young players like Duran (fingers crossed we got it right first time!). That’s a tricky gamble for any manager.
It depends how much you think we could get for Watkins. A month back I would have said the same £12m-£15m we got for Ings. Now he's in the goals and if he can continue until the end of the season then maybe £30m. That would mean your £60m striker is only costing us £30m to replace Watkins. Great business if we can do it.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 13, 2023, 08:03:30 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 13, 2023, 08:24:53 PM
£12-15m for Watkins even in his drought would have been ludicrously low.
His drought lasted pretty much 12 months. Ings, despite not having the minutes at least did what it said on the tin. Yes, he is older and looks like he couldn't run a bath but you want your strikers to be hitting the back of the net. El Ghazi was a classic case of failing to sell when his value was high. The summer before we'd have got £15m off somebody for him; 12 months later we struggled to give him away.
Post by: Clampy on February 13, 2023, 08:36:30 PM
£12-15m for Watkins even in his drought would have been ludicrously low.
It would, especially when Newcastle supposedly paid £25m for Chris Wood.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 13, 2023, 08:46:03 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on February 13, 2023, 08:52:48 PM
Post by: brontebilly on February 13, 2023, 08:56:49 PM
The others need to get the finger out and contribute more - Bailey, Coutinho, Buendia, Ramsey etc
Post by: Drummond on February 14, 2023, 10:13:13 AM
"It's unbelievable to play for a massive club like Villa, hopefully I've got many more to come."
Post by: Brend'Watkins on February 14, 2023, 10:34:34 AM
The others need to get the finger out and contribute more - Bailey, Coutinho, Buendia, Ramsey etc
I quite agree.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on February 14, 2023, 10:36:02 AM
Post by: Nunkin1965 on February 14, 2023, 10:37:48 AM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on February 14, 2023, 11:19:16 AM
Post by: Axl Rose on February 14, 2023, 11:32:16 AM
The others need to get the finger out and contribute more - Bailey, Coutinho, Buendia, Ramsey etc
I quite agree.
Me, too.
That lot need an absolute rocket up them. So much talent in there.
Post by: chrisw1 on February 14, 2023, 12:59:29 PM
Post by: Dante Lavelli on February 14, 2023, 01:21:02 PM
£12-15m for Watkins even in his drought would have been ludicrously low.
It would, especially when Newcastle supposedly paid £25m for Chris Wood.
And 70m euro for Isak. That’s part if the issue for me, Isak might prove to be a better player but it’s not guaranteed.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 14, 2023, 01:26:47 PM
And 70m euro for Isak. That’s part if the issue for me, Isak might prove to be a better player but it’s not guaranteed.
It's a Wicked Game.
Post by: VILLA MOLE on February 14, 2023, 01:32:54 PM
And 70m euro for Isak. That’s part if the issue for me, Isak might prove to be a better player but it’s not guaranteed.
It's a Wicked Game.
He will be living a Blue Hotel if he isn't successful
Post by: Risso on February 14, 2023, 01:34:20 PM
Post by: Drummond on February 14, 2023, 02:03:18 PM
£12-15m for Watkins even in his drought would have been ludicrously low.
It would, especially when Newcastle supposedly paid £25m for Chris Wood.
And 70m euro for Isak. That’s part if the issue for me, Isak might prove to be a better player but it’s not guaranteed.
Somebody's Crying.
Post by: Footy-Vill on February 18, 2023, 03:13:28 PM
Footy, 12 minimum.4 in 4 now.
7 goals with 15 matches to play.
Brilliant finish today.
Keep it up Ollie.
Post by: olaftab on February 18, 2023, 03:20:54 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on February 18, 2023, 03:35:59 PM
Post by: Dante Lavelli on February 18, 2023, 08:00:47 PM
Emery has certainly improved him. He's looking better than at any point.
There was an interview with Watkins somewhere and to paraphrase Emery has told him to stay more central, where he can score more goals.
Post by: brontebilly on February 18, 2023, 08:28:26 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 18, 2023, 08:30:00 PM
Post by: Ian. on February 18, 2023, 08:33:38 PM
Emery has certainly improved him. He's looking better than at any point.
Absolutely, he’s done brilliantly with Ollie. He’s definitely improved his game so much. I don’t know the stats but since late November he’s been involved with lots of our goals, either assists or scoring them.
Post by: colin69 on February 18, 2023, 08:36:15 PM
Post by: Exeter 77 on February 18, 2023, 08:36:37 PM
That is probably basic coaching for top level strikers. I remember an interview with Ellen White from a few years ago when she mentioned that a coach (possibly even Phil Neville which would be slightly bizarre) had told her to stay within the width of the posts and her goal output improved dramatically.Emery has certainly improved him. He's looking better than at any point.
There was an interview with Watkins somewhere and to paraphrase Emery has told him to stay more central, where he can score more goals.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 18, 2023, 08:52:37 PM
Emery has certainly improved him. He's looking better than at any point.
Absolutely, he’s done brilliantly with Ollie. He’s definitely improved his game so much. I don’t know the stats but since late November he’s been involved with lots of our goals, either assists or scoring them.
I think it's 5 goals and 2 assists in 9 league games under Emery.
Post by: Dante Lavelli on February 18, 2023, 09:22:09 PM
That is probably basic coaching for top level strikers. I remember an interview with Ellen White from a few years ago when she mentioned that a coach (possibly even Phil Neville which would be slightly bizarre) had told her to stay within the width of the posts and her goal output improved dramatically.Emery has certainly improved him. He's looking better than at any point.
There was an interview with Watkins somewhere and to paraphrase Emery has told him to stay more central, where he can score more goals.
Ollie is quoted as saying very similar following advice from Emery.
Post by: astonvilla82 on February 18, 2023, 09:22:23 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 18, 2023, 09:26:38 PM
Thought he had a very good game, normally I am one of his biggest criticsAgree, surprised he came off.
Post by: Risso on February 18, 2023, 09:29:13 PM
Post by: LeonW on February 18, 2023, 09:39:17 PM
Post by: OCD on February 19, 2023, 12:06:57 PM
He seems better since Ings left too and Duran is getting minutes and looking good in those cameos too.
Post by: john e on February 19, 2023, 12:33:25 PM
You can’t ask for more from a striker than scoring goals,
I’ve probably been one of his biggest critics on here as I don’t think he’s particularly technical but fair play to the lad he’s scoring regularly now that’s all that matters
Post by: Footy-Vill on February 20, 2023, 10:07:43 AM
It's nice that he's converting chances and scoring one goal per game with clinical efficiency, but we'd want to see him score two goals since, given the chance, he can score frequently.
This season, I still have him for 15+. The signs are all there and given right match he can get a hat trick
At the moment it is he and Marcus Rashford that are the form strikers in the league. Expecting them to score every game.
Post by: Bad English on February 20, 2023, 12:26:45 PM
Post by: eamonn on February 20, 2023, 12:28:18 PM
Post by: darren woolley on February 20, 2023, 12:42:50 PM
Post by: Baldy on February 20, 2023, 12:49:03 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on February 20, 2023, 02:03:45 PM
How is he going to remain with us when he only has CEFR level A1 Spanish?
We'll get him sorted with a villa in Spain for the summer, he can brush-up on mangling the Spanish (hence "Spanglish").
Has only enhanced Ed Sheeran career by his learning Spainish. So there's proof!
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 20, 2023, 02:15:53 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 20, 2023, 02:17:31 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on February 20, 2023, 02:17:54 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on February 20, 2023, 02:56:59 PM
How is he going to remain with us when he only has CEFR level A1 Spanish?
"Ollie is really great for the club, he works very hard, I am so so happy with him, but when we speak in Spanish, his subjunctive is all over the place".
Post by: Hookeysmith on February 20, 2023, 03:46:15 PM
Thought he had a very good game, normally I am one of his biggest criticsAgree, surprised he came off.
He had an ice pack on so maybe a small injury?
Post by: aj2k77 on February 20, 2023, 04:07:23 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 20, 2023, 04:33:12 PM
He runs around a lot, but now he’s running around a lot and adding goals
You can’t ask for more from a striker than scoring goals,
I’ve probably been one of his biggest critics on here as I don’t think he’s particularly technical but fair play to the lad he’s scoring regularly now that’s all that matters
All day long.
Very impressed that despite failing to control the ball first time, I think everybody and his dog expected Watkins to try and cut inside and get a shot off. It's what he does. The fact he decided to take it down the left before firing a bullet shot across the Arse keeper I think took most by surprise. Cracking goal.
Post by: brontebilly on February 20, 2023, 09:58:31 PM
His consistency is starting to improve a touch now. Looks a lot happier than a few months ago. He never seemed comfortable with Ings alongside him. Maybe he's one of those who has to feel like he's trusted to get the best out of him.
💯 Have to give Emery credit on it. Was his first big decision at Villa Park to let Ings go and put his faith in Watkins. He didn't flunk it. It's a good time to be a forward for us, we create loads of chances these days. Not a great time to be a defender, mind.
Post by: eamonn on February 22, 2023, 03:49:35 PM
https://www.avfc.co.uk/video/0_iob94jrw
Post by: Footy-Vill on February 23, 2023, 05:12:09 PM
Nice vid of him on Pravda at the club's secret cinema, checking out his favourite goals from his first 100 Villa games:Brilliant and enjoy hearing him.
https://www.avfc.co.uk/video/0_iob94jrw
It hasn't gone unnoticed that Watkins often now serves as a spokesperson after games and provides good and realistic rationale.
OW serves as an example of someone who thrives with good coaching and knows what Emery and the system are all about for him. Watkins has a great attitude and is now displaying leadership qualities.
Fully expect him to be stepping up for penalties and see him as a Captain contender next season
To me, his performances also demonstrate gratitude as before when things not going his way, he could be a little temperamental and showed frustration. Now he has a lot more focused from what he's be taught to do.
A brace is coming soon.
I still see him scoring 15 goals this season.
Post by: Mister E on February 23, 2023, 07:12:17 PM
I still see him scoring 15 goals this season.Since you've said this a few times, I really hope it happens - for him as well as for you.
Post by: Footy-Vill on February 25, 2023, 10:06:01 AM
Emery words on Watkins make feel even more strongly he can get his best number of goals in a Premier League season. And I'm sure OW will be stepping up for any penalties will are awarded.I still see him scoring 15 goals this season.Since you've said this a few times, I really hope it happens - for him as well as for you.
Emery has improved many a forward player time and again in football.
He's fast becoming a potential option for captain to me.
"We are trying with Ollie, to help him, to support him, to improve, to take confidence,
We practice a lot, offensively and defensively, and of course we have to take a balance.
Some players, maybe they are taking it better than others, and one is Ollie Watkins.
Every day he is working very, very well and trying to improve, practicing a lot.
He has ambition, and he is a good example for everybody.”
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on February 25, 2023, 12:13:35 PM
Players like Watkins who want to improve and are willing to listen will always find favour with coaches/managers.
If he genuinely demonstrates progress as well as continuing his current good form, I wonder how far away he is from an England recall? UTV
Post by: Footy-Vill on February 25, 2023, 12:18:49 PM
If he continues to perform and score in the next four games, he has a good chance of making the squad.
Only Kane and Rashford have scored more goals since the World Cup ended.
And could even get minutes in the team as there will be inevitable drop outs and injuries/rests.
Post by: Rigadon on February 25, 2023, 01:49:40 PM
Working hard to improve and a willingness to be coached and embrace what a coach wants, sounds like they should be givens for any player, though that is far from the case.
Players like Watkins who want to improve and are willing to listen will always find favour with coaches/managers.
If he genuinely demonstrates progress as well as continuing his current good form, I wonder how far away he is from an England recall? UTV
Aint that the truth. I've been critical of Ollie Watkins in the past, but his attitude and willingness to run has always been first class - lie you say that's always something a coach is fond of. Same for fans I suppose. I'm really pleased for him that he seems to have added ruthlessness to his game, as top class strikers certainly need that.
Post by: Footy-Vill on February 25, 2023, 05:01:54 PM
8 goals now this season and approaching double figures .
14 games remaining.
If he hits one in two, that's 7, which means he gets his best ever tally for season 15 goals.
Has taken the responsibility of spot kicks, and it was another great all-around performance today versus Everton.
Had a downward header tipped onto the post and hit a 25 yarder saved by Pickford.
A brace is incoming soon at this rate.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on February 25, 2023, 05:23:47 PM
Post by: LukeJames on February 25, 2023, 05:25:32 PM
Post by: Smirker on February 25, 2023, 05:44:18 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on February 25, 2023, 06:02:42 PM
This season Haaland scored in 7 consecutive league games.
In 2021 both Mo Salah and Jo Willock scored 7 consecutive Premier Legaue games in a row.
Vardy holds the record of scoring consecutively . 11 games
Post by: Brazilian Villain on February 25, 2023, 06:25:25 PM
Unai like Smith is getting the best out of Ollie! Keep up the good work lad!
Erm, Ollie scored 2 in 11 last season under Smith and 9 in the remaining league games.
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 25, 2023, 06:31:26 PM
https://twitter.com/avfc_vilr/status/1629541264491159555?s=46&t=ojaYZpEf31d46ynoz3E3uQ
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on February 25, 2023, 06:34:03 PM
How is it we never get these penalties? If that’s Harry Kane that’s given 10/10 times. And that’s dirty from Pickford too. WankerGood job we have VAR :)
https://twitter.com/avfc_vilr/status/1629541264491159555?s=46&t=ojaYZpEf31d46ynoz3E3uQ
Post by: Brazilian Villain on February 25, 2023, 06:35:03 PM
How is it we never get these penalties? If that’s Harry Kane that’s given 10/10 times. And that’s dirty from Pickford too. Wanker
Not a penalty for me, if he had knocked it past him instead of shooting then it's a definite pen. Not saying that strikers from certain other favoured clubs wouldn't have got one for it though.
Post by: rob_bridge on February 25, 2023, 06:37:34 PM
Unai like Smith is getting the best out of Ollie! Keep up the good work lad!
Erm, Ollie scored 2 in 11 last season under Smith and 9 in the remaining league games.
14/37 previous season under Smith
What were Ollie's stats this season before Gerrard got sacked? 1 in ..7 or 8?
Post by: Ian. on February 25, 2023, 06:43:23 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 25, 2023, 06:49:06 PM
Yes correct decision. Ollie shoots towards goal Pickford saves and momentum of both played results in collision.How is it we never get these penalties? If that’s Harry Kane that’s given 10/10 times. And that’s dirty from Pickford too. Wanker
Not a penalty for me, if he had knocked it past him instead of shooting then it's a definite pen. Not saying that strikers from certain other favoured clubs wouldn't have got one for it though.
Post by: algy on February 25, 2023, 06:49:16 PM
Fantastic return to scoring form under Emery. Obviously under Gerrard, the staring into eyes technique didn’t quite work out for him.All I can think is that maybe Emery has worked out how to get players to look him in the eye whilst they're rolling their sleeves up. That's what separates the wheat from the chaff in football management.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 25, 2023, 06:53:16 PM
Fantastic return to scoring form under Emery. Obviously under Gerrard, the staring into eyes technique didn’t quite work out for him.All I can think is that maybe Emery has worked out how to get players to look him in the eye whilst they're rolling their sleeves up. That's what separates the wheat from the chaff in football management.
If they're looking him in the eye, how can he be sure they've got their boots on? BRING BACK BRUCE!
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on February 25, 2023, 06:53:24 PM
Unai like Smith is getting the best out of Ollie! Keep up the good work lad!
Erm, Ollie scored 2 in 11 last season under Smith and 9 in the remaining league games.
Erm? Lol
It was 2 in 8 last season under Smith, but I’d prefer to focus on his record under Smith from his arrival. You’re right though, his return wasn’t great under ketchup boy.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 25, 2023, 06:56:14 PM
Had a downward header tipped onto the post and hit a 25 yarder saved by Pickford.
A brace is incoming soon at this rate.
I've watched it now a few times and the downward header was a poor decision making it pretty easy for Pickford. He really should have buried it. The 25 yarder shows he's playing with plenty of confidence but more important for me is he's far more clinical with the few chances he gets in a game. Today he should have had a brace but like you, I can see it coming. He's getting in the right positions, look at the way he found space for his downward header as an example, I'm more confident now that provide him with good service and he'll score more than he fluffs.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on February 25, 2023, 07:06:52 PM
Unai like Smith is getting the best out of Ollie! Keep up the good work lad!
Erm, Ollie scored 2 in 11 last season under Smith and 9 in the remaining league games.
Erm? Lol
It was 2 in 8 last season under Smith, but I’d prefer to focus on his record under Smith from his arrival. You’re right though, his return wasn’t great under ketchup boy.
Of course you would, as even 2 in 8 last season isn't exactly thriving compared to the subsequent 9 in 27. With hindsight, I would say that Watkins scoring dip in scoring appears to have largely coincided with Ings' time here. Now that he's back to being the main striker, coupled with some specific instructions from Emery on his forward play, he's rediscovered his scoring form and long may it continue. Pleased for him.
Post by: dave shelley on February 25, 2023, 10:48:56 PM
Post by: LeonW on February 25, 2023, 10:51:33 PM
How is it we never get these penalties? If that’s Harry Kane that’s given 10/10 times. And that’s dirty from Pickford too. Wanker
Not a penalty for me, if he had knocked it past him instead of shooting then it's a definite pen. Not saying that strikers from certain other favoured clubs wouldn't have got one for it though.
Was it really that different from the one Arsenal got the other week against Manchester Cheaty?
Post by: astonvilla82 on February 25, 2023, 11:26:09 PM
Post by: Ian. on February 25, 2023, 11:59:54 PM
Post by: LeeB on February 26, 2023, 12:51:03 AM
I thought it was a good save by the keeper.
Yeah me too.
Post by: FatSam on February 26, 2023, 01:00:24 AM
AgreedI thought it was a good save by the keeper.
Yeah me too.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 26, 2023, 07:29:21 AM
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on February 26, 2023, 09:39:23 AM
Post by: Risso on February 26, 2023, 09:54:29 AM
Post by: astonvilla82 on February 26, 2023, 11:12:46 AM
I thought it was a good save and then just a coming together after the ball was gone.looking like if Pickford is making sure he's taking Watkins out no matter what, that's a foul if not in the penalty by any other players
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 26, 2023, 11:14:59 AM
I thought it was a good save and then just a coming together after the ball was gone.It hits Pickford so leg after contact.
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on February 26, 2023, 11:24:48 AM
Previously players could claim a touch on the ball, though that no longer counts, i.e., if you touch the ball first and then wipe out an opponent, that is a foul and, probably, a booking.
Obviously most managers and pundits are either ignorant of the change or talk nonsense as it suits their bias.
So that challenge by Pickford should have been a penalty and, probably, a red card. We might not be happy if something like that is given against us, but that is what should happen. UTV
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 26, 2023, 11:26:27 AM
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on February 26, 2023, 11:32:25 AM
Pickford's challenge is either reckless or excessive in my view. What the laws says:
Careless, reckless, using excessive force
“Careless” means that the player has shown a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or that he acted without precaution.
• No further disciplinary sanction is needed if a foul is judged to be careless
“Reckless” means that the player has acted with complete disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, his opponent.
• A player who plays in a reckless manner must be cautioned
“Using excessive force” means that the player has far exceeded the necessary use of force and is in danger of injuring his opponent.
• A player who uses excessive force must be sent off
Post by: AV82EC on February 26, 2023, 11:33:40 AM
Post by: Drummond on February 26, 2023, 11:36:07 AM
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on February 26, 2023, 11:42:39 AM
I haven’t analysed it to any great extent but the Pickford one was a pen for me whereas I thought the McGinn one wasn’t! Hey ho we’re back down the road with 3 points I can’t be arsed with worrying about it.Both for me. The pen on McGinn looks soft, but there is contact, knee on knee, just before the Blue Scouse toes the ball away. UTV
Post by: AV82EC on February 26, 2023, 11:43:20 AM
So now that he's on fire under a new manager.... Are people still of the view we need to upgrade?
Maybe. Five in five doesn’t mean much if it’s followed up by only 2 or 3 more up to seasons end. If he can as FV is suggesting get up to mid teens then I’m not so sure he needs replacing and we have Duran and Archer evolving as back ups. What we need in an attacking sense is actually an upgrade for Bailey/Traore and a decision on Coutinho/Buendia for next year and if they “fit” with where Emery wants to go.
Post by: Somniloquism on February 26, 2023, 12:48:20 PM
I haven’t analysed it to any great extent but the Pickford one was a pen for me whereas I thought the McGinn one wasn’t! Hey ho we’re back down the road with 3 points I can’t be arsed with worrying about it.Both for me. The pen on McGinn looks soft, but there is contact, knee on knee, just before the Blue Scouse toes the ball away. UTV
He didn’t toe the ball away. MOTD showed that there wasn’t any contact on the ball at all from a 3rd angle.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 26, 2023, 12:49:13 PM
Post by: darren woolley on February 26, 2023, 05:24:34 PM
Post by: Bad English on February 26, 2023, 06:14:03 PM
Post by: Beard82 on February 26, 2023, 06:57:52 PM
I think this is right - if he can continue his good form to the end of the season I don’t think there’s a rush to replace him - particularly if unai thinks archer and Duran will make the grade. I think the real priority is in finding a better version of bailey, cay and konsaSo now that he's on fire under a new manager.... Are people still of the view we need to upgrade?
Maybe. Five in five doesn’t mean much if it’s followed up by only 2 or 3 more up to seasons end. If he can as FV is suggesting get up to mid teens then I’m not so sure he needs replacing and we have Duran and Archer evolving as back ups. What we need in an attacking sense is actually an upgrade for Bailey/Traore and a decision on Coutinho/Buendia for next year and if they “fit” with where Emery wants to go.
Post by: LeonW on February 26, 2023, 08:09:23 PM
So now that he's on fire under a new manager.... Are people still of the view we need to upgrade?
I think it depends. Earlier in the season I was convinced it was best for all parties to have a change. Then Ings was sold and Ollie suddenly looked like the Ollie from the first season. Is it because he’s the main man again? Or is this streak the exception rather than the norm? Not sure to the answers but they’re pertinent to the future. I’d prefer him to be an option; horses for courses, etc. we do need another striker with different qualities for those opponents that let us have the ball wide and make us cross it. I see Ollie more as a player for away games and home games against the top sides. Not sure he’d be happy with that but we need more and better options to progress. Plus this could just be a streak.
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 26, 2023, 08:34:29 PM
So now that he's on fire under a new manager.... Are people still of the view we need to upgrade?It shows up the dearth of centre forwards and how difficult it would be to replace him, so right now I would want to keep him but we need another option.
Manure have carthorse, today we saw how ordinary Callum Wilson is, only Spurs and Citeh have great centre forwards.
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on February 26, 2023, 08:41:50 PM
2014–2017 Exeter City 68 (21)
2017–2020 Brentford 132 (45)
2020– Aston Villa 95 (33)
2021– England 7 (2)
Post by: robleflaneur on February 26, 2023, 08:48:42 PM
Checking his stats on Wiki he has consistently been a 1 goal in 3 games striker with every club at every level. He is now right in his prime and if he can turn himself into a 1 in 2 striker for the next three years we have the top top striker required to break into the top six.Apart from his final season at Brentford,he was used by them as a wide player,so his stats are pretty good.
2014–2017 Exeter City 68 (21)
2017–2020 Brentford 132 (45)
2020– Aston Villa 95 (33)
2021– England 7 (2)
Post by: Percy McCarthy on February 26, 2023, 10:09:02 PM
Checking his stats on Wiki he has consistently been a 1 goal in 3 games striker with every club at every level. He is now right in his prime and if he can turn himself into a 1 in 2 striker for the next three years we have the top top striker required to break into the top six.Apart from his final season at Brentford,he was used by them as a wide player,so his stats are pretty good.
2014–2017 Exeter City 68 (21)
2017–2020 Brentford 132 (45)
2020– Aston Villa 95 (33)
2021– England 7 (2)
Yep, 302 games, 101 goals.
Post by: Rory on February 27, 2023, 01:48:57 AM
Post by: RamboandBruno on February 27, 2023, 02:47:16 AM
Post by: Bad English on February 27, 2023, 06:31:15 AM
Yes, i like him a lot. Limitations, but hopefully working with Emery can improve his round game. If he can continue his current goal scoring combined with his massive workrate, then he and we could have a very positive end to the season. And seeming like a food bloke helps as well.He's young and hungry.
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 27, 2023, 07:35:16 AM
Nothing to be scoffed at.Yes, i like him a lot. Limitations, but hopefully working with Emery can improve his round game. If he can continue his current goal scoring combined with his massive workrate, then he and we could have a very positive end to the season. And seeming like a food bloke helps as well.He's young and hungry.
Post by: Mister E on February 27, 2023, 08:28:59 AM
"Feed the Goat and he will score..."Nothing to be scoffed at.Yes, i like him a lot. Limitations, but hopefully working with Emery can improve his round game. If he can continue his current goal scoring combined with his massive workrate, then he and we could have a very positive end to the season. And seeming like a food bloke helps as well.He's young and hungry.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 27, 2023, 09:04:49 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on February 27, 2023, 09:20:07 AM
Post by: Drummond on February 27, 2023, 10:03:13 AM
Post by: LeeB on February 27, 2023, 10:06:41 AM
He ragged both centre halves all game, showing short for the ball or over the back of them, his confidence is sky high and you can see it in all aspects of his play. When he's at this level I look at the other English forwards outside of Kane and think nobody comes close to him. I've said before I think Wilson might be better but watching him yesterday, no, Watkins has got more strings to his bow than any of them.
I thought from the minute we got Emery he'd love Watkins and get him firing again and so he has.
Post by: eamonn on February 27, 2023, 10:18:24 AM
Post by: Drummond on February 27, 2023, 10:40:15 AM
The penalty tells it's own story, he looked so calm and measured taking it. Pure technique, like a rugby kicker, calm breathing, focus and execution.
He ragged both centre halves all game, showing short for the ball or over the back of them, his confidence is sky high and you can see it in all aspects of his play. When he's at this level I look at the other English forwards outside of Kane and think nobody comes close to him. I've said before I think Wilson might be better but watching him yesterday, no, Watkins has got more strings to his bow than any of them.
I thought from the minute we got Emery he'd love Watkins and get him firing again and so he has.
Yep, that sums it up. He's just brilliant, and clearly works hard and cares too. He's gutted when we lose, you could see that after Arsenal, but right now there aren't many you'd have ahead of him. Gut feeling is that he'll score again on Saturday.
Post by: RamboandBruno on February 27, 2023, 02:11:05 PM
He certainly seems to be gobbling up the scoring opportunities these days.I made a meal out of my praise for him, i know
Post by: Footy-Vill on February 28, 2023, 04:58:04 PM
Also Peter McParland (1959/60) and Brian Little (1974/75) scored 6 in a row in a lower league.
Len Capewell currently holds the club record of scoring in 8 successive top-flight games.
(1925/26 )
Post by: eamonn on March 01, 2023, 04:27:31 PM
It feels a bit tin-pot that Watkins beat our own 30 year-record (since football began obviously) so easily/quickly.
Post by: Villa Lew on March 02, 2023, 08:21:12 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 02, 2023, 08:31:00 PM
As you would expect one of the nominees for Player of the Month.
nice to see but it will likely go to Rashford
Post by: LeeB on March 03, 2023, 11:02:18 AM
As you would expect one of the nominees for Player of the Month.
nice to see but it will likely go to Rashford
I don't know why I read that as Pickford for a split second and nearly burst out laughing.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 10, 2023, 03:52:01 PM
Source BBC sport.
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on March 12, 2023, 06:14:12 PM
Double figures for the season beckons again for our main striker!
Keep up the good work Ollie!
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 12, 2023, 06:17:33 PM
Post by: Woody17 on March 12, 2023, 06:21:41 PM
Our 11th highest scoring PL player, one behind Vassell. 3 behind Saunders and Carew who are next on the list.Pleased for him. How can you not smile inside when you hear the names Vassell, Saunders and Carew.
Post by: Ian. on March 12, 2023, 06:25:29 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 12, 2023, 06:25:34 PM
Post by: Ian. on March 12, 2023, 06:31:53 PM
Took his goal well and missed a bit of a sitter but other than that I don't recall him doing much more. Like all strikers he needs good service and apart from the above he got very little. Spare a thought for Ings, he touched the ball 10 times and made 4 passes in his time on the pitch.
Prior to Emery Ollie would be working like mad, closing down, forcing errors but not taking his chances. He maybe less involved but I’d rather take this version, his goal tally is looking good. Unfortunately he may miss the odd stinker, but this that don’t are your Kanes of this world.
I’m so please for him he’s back amongst the goals.
Post by: brontebilly on March 12, 2023, 06:41:33 PM
Took his goal well and missed a bit of a sitter but other than that I don't recall him doing much more. Like all strikers he needs good service and apart from the above he got very little. Spare a thought for Ings, he touched the ball 10 times and made 4 passes in his time on the pitch.
Ings vindicated our decision to let him go with his performance.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 12, 2023, 06:45:42 PM
Took his goal well and missed a bit of a sitter but other than that I don't recall him doing much more. Like all strikers he needs good service and apart from the above he got very little. Spare a thought for Ings, he touched the ball 10 times and made 4 passes in his time on the pitch.
Prior to Emery Ollie would be working like mad, closing down, forcing errors but not taking his chances. He maybe less involved but I’d rather take this version, his goal tally is looking good. Unfortunately he may miss the odd stinker, but this that don’t are your Kanes of this world.
I’m so please for him he’s back amongst the goals.
Prior to Emery he was a labrador puppy chasing a balloon. Now he's doing what strikers are paid to do - score goals. I was just disappointed that he got such little service, especially when you consider the number of times we had the opportunity out wide to put a ball into the box. We rarely delivered as we like to over complicate things which is a shame.
Post by: Clampy on March 12, 2023, 07:12:28 PM
Took his goal well and missed a bit of a sitter but other than that I don't recall him doing much more. Like all strikers he needs good service and apart from the above he got very little. Spare a thought for Ings, he touched the ball 10 times and made 4 passes in his time on the pitch.
Prior to Emery Ollie would be working like mad, closing down, forcing errors but not taking his chances. He maybe less involved but I’d rather take this version, his goal tally is looking good. Unfortunately he may miss the odd stinker, but this that don’t are your Kanes of this world.
I’m so please for him he’s back amongst the goals.
Prior to Emery he was a labrador puppy chasing a balloon. Now he's doing what strikers are paid to do - score goals. I was just disappointed that he got such little service, especially when you consider the number of times we had the opportunity out wide to put a ball into the box. We rarely delivered as we like to over complicate things which is a shame.
The first line of that post is just ridiculous. It's almost as if he didn't score any goals whilst he didn't chase anything.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 12, 2023, 07:27:16 PM
Post by: ez on March 12, 2023, 07:27:26 PM
Took his goal well and missed a bit of a sitter but other than that I don't recall him doing much more. Like all strikers he needs good service and apart from the above he got very little. Spare a thought for Ings, he touched the ball 10 times and made 4 passes in his time on the pitch.
Ings vindicated our decision to let him go with his performance.
The reason we could hold a high defensive line is we knew Ings can't run.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 12, 2023, 07:32:43 PM
Took his goal well and missed a bit of a sitter but other than that I don't recall him doing much more. Like all strikers he needs good service and apart from the above he got very little. Spare a thought for Ings, he touched the ball 10 times and made 4 passes in his time on the pitch.
Ings vindicated our decision to let him go with his performance.
The reason we could hold a high defensive line is we knew Ings can't run.
Haha! Good point.
Post by: brontebilly on March 12, 2023, 07:34:56 PM
Took his goal well missed a bit of a sitter but other than that I don't recall him doing much more. Like all strikers he needs good service and apart from the above he got very little. Spare a thought form Ings, he touched the ball 10 times and made 4 passes in his time on the pitch.
He had another great chance in the first half but his footwork was average and the WHU defender got back to clear. Needed to get the ball out of his feet quickly and get the shot away.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 12, 2023, 07:46:01 PM
Took his goal well missed a bit of a sitter but other than that I don't recall him doing much more. Like all strikers he needs good service and apart from the above he got very little. Spare a thought form Ings, he touched the ball 10 times and made 4 passes in his time on the pitch.
He had another great chance in the first half but his footwork was average and the WHU defender got back to clear. Needed to get the ball out of his feet quickly and get the shot away.
True, there was that also. I'm sure Footy can fill in the details of what Enery has told Watkins to work on with his game. The two most important things though are he's finding the back of the net on a regular basis and he's getting into good positions, all that with very little decent service.
Post by: Risso on March 12, 2023, 07:51:06 PM
Post by: brontebilly on March 12, 2023, 08:04:33 PM
Took his goal well missed a bit of a sitter but other than that I don't recall him doing much more. Like all strikers he needs good service and apart from the above he got very little. Spare a thought form Ings, he touched the ball 10 times and made 4 passes in his time on the pitch.
He had another great chance in the first half but his footwork was average and the WHU defender got back to clear. Needed to get the ball out of his feet quickly and get the shot away.
True, there was that also. I'm sure Footy can fill in the details of what Enery has told Watkins to work on with his game. The two most important things though are he's finding the back of the net on a regular basis and he's getting into good positions, all that with very little decent service.
I think he's getting plenty of service these days, hence the goal return, but his back to goal work has improved immeasurably too. Goals bring confidence too I guess, he has missed two absolute sitters in the last two games (possibly a third in the first half v Everton that I'm struggling to remember) but it's not impacting him at all.
Post by: eamonn on March 12, 2023, 08:13:29 PM
I think he's harshly judged at times, almost as if he's expected to score every chance he gets. We don't usually make more than two or three for him a game on average so his return is also dependent on service. And the header he did score was another difficult one too.
Post by: RamboandBruno on March 12, 2023, 08:38:31 PM
Our 11th highest scoring PL player, one behind Vassell. 3 behind Saunders and Carew who are next on the list.Maybe its just me but perceptions and memory is a funny thing. If you said to me by the end of this season Watkins would of scored more league goals for us than such iconic players as Saunders and Carew, i would of found it hard to believe. For all the criticism of him, including my own, he’s doing something right, long may it continue.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 12, 2023, 08:41:48 PM
Took his goal well missed a bit of a sitter but other than that I don't recall him doing much more. Like all strikers he needs good service and apart from the above he got very little. Spare a thought form Ings, he touched the ball 10 times and made 4 passes in his time on the pitch.
He had another great chance in the first half but his footwork was average and the WHU defender got back to clear. Needed to get the ball out of his feet quickly and get the shot away.
True, there was that also. I'm sure Footy can fill in the details of what Enery has told Watkins to work on with his game. The two most important things though are he's finding the back of the net on a regular basis and he's getting into good positions, all that with very little decent service.
I think he's getting plenty of service these days, hence the goal return, but his back to goal work has improved immeasurably too. Goals bring confidence too I guess, he has missed two absolute sitters in the last two games (possibly a third in the first half v Everton that I'm struggling to remember) but it's not impacting him at all.
The goal return is down to better finishing rather than better service. Last year he'd need 3, 4 sometimes 5 good chances to convert one. Now he's converting one from two real chances. Yes, his confidence is obviously restored, Emery has gone public on how he likes him but in the back of his mind he knows he's playing for his future. Goals are the real judge of a leading striker and for all his tracking/running it means little if you're not scoring. Right how he should be happy that his hard work at BH is being rewarded.
Post by: Smithy on March 13, 2023, 08:39:45 PM
Our 11th highest scoring PL player, one behind Vassell. 3 behind Saunders and Carew who are next on the list.Maybe its just me but perceptions and memory is a funny thing. If you said to me by the end of this season Watkins would of scored more league goals for us than such iconic players as Saunders and Carew, i would of found it hard to believe. For all the criticism of him, including my own, he’s doing something right, long may it continue.
I think Ollie gets a bad rap sometimes because he's ALWAYS busy, and ALWAYS involved. It's very rare indeed that game goes by and you barely notice he way playing. Some players having a bad day, will disappear a bit (including some of our more iconic players) - but not Ollie. But because works so hard, and gets involved, there are more 'bad bits' to remember, so we sometimes generate a perception that he's not that good. It would be great if he was more clinical in front of goal, but if he was, with his workrate, he'd be a £70m+ player and a regular international.
Post by: OCD on March 14, 2023, 12:22:23 PM
Post by: Dick Edwards on March 14, 2023, 12:48:47 PM
It would be great if he was more clinical in front of goal, but if he was, with his workrate, he'd be a £70m+ player and a regular international.
If he was a lethal finisher AND super industrious we'd have an Ian Rush on our hands, making him one of the most valuable strikers on the planet.
Post by: Risso on March 14, 2023, 01:14:41 PM
Post by: Bully2345 on March 14, 2023, 01:20:03 PM
Post by: eamonn on March 14, 2023, 01:29:26 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on March 14, 2023, 01:53:39 PM
It would be great if he was more clinical in front of goal, but if he was, with his workrate, he'd be a £70m+ player and a regular international.
If he was a lethal finisher AND super industrious we'd have an Ian Rush on our hands, making him one of the most valuable strikers on the planet.
I would settle for lethal finisher out the two. Doesn't seem to have harmed Haalands reputation not being industrious.
Quote
Roughly one in six of Haaland’s touches is a shot, and one in 20 of Haaland’s touches is a goal.
Post by: Steve67 on March 14, 2023, 02:00:28 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 14, 2023, 09:43:21 PM
He was called up last March and can see him again be called up next week.
Post by: eamonn on March 14, 2023, 10:37:48 PM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on March 15, 2023, 12:01:51 AM
Well, he modelled M&S menswear for England last year. They're bound to want to see a return on their investment.
Yes, that’ll be it.
Post by: Bad English on March 15, 2023, 05:52:20 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 15, 2023, 06:20:17 AM
“ If” is doing some heavy lifting here.It would be great if he was more clinical in front of goal, but if he was, with his workrate, he'd be a £70m+ player and a regular international.
If he was a lethal finisher AND super industrious we'd have an Ian Rush on our hands, making him one of the most valuable strikers on the planet.
Post by: algy on March 15, 2023, 06:49:19 AM
They won't want their pants pulled down.No, or it'll be a case of the Emperor's new clothes
Post by: rob_bridge on March 15, 2023, 11:08:54 AM
Watkins could well be in line for an International call up.
He was called up last March and can see him again be called up next week.
I'd agree - the ones who were justifiably ahead of him earlier this season are not in as good as form as he. Kane aside obviously.
No idea why people have gripes over Southgate not picking him or Mings during 2022, neither were playing well enough. Hopefully both will be back in next week.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 15, 2023, 11:16:22 AM
Well, he modelled M&S menswear for England last year. They're bound to want to see a return on their investment.
Yes, that’ll be it.
He's their preferred marksman.
Post by: Somniloquism on March 15, 2023, 11:17:24 AM
Watkins could well be in line for an International call up.
He was called up last March and can see him again be called up next week.
I'd agree - the ones who were justifiably ahead of him earlier this season are not in as good as form as he. Kane aside obviously.
No idea why people have gripes over Southgate not picking him or Mings during 2022, neither were playing well enough. Hopefully both will be back in next week.
When you had Southgate picking defenders who had played worse then Mings, were just coming back from long-term injury or were regularly benched by their own team, him being dropped was definitely more gripe-worthy then Watkins.
Post by: algy on March 15, 2023, 12:06:10 PM
And a model professional, I might add.Well, he modelled M&S menswear for England last year. They're bound to want to see a return on their investment.
Yes, that’ll be it.
He's their preferred marksman.
Post by: adrenachrome on March 15, 2023, 12:54:25 PM
And a model professional, I might add.Well, he modelled M&S menswear for England last year. They're bound to want to see a return on their investment.
Yes, that’ll be it.
He's their preferred marksman.
On BT Sport for our match against West Ham, Lee Hendrie and Clinton Morrison were 2 of the pundits. Morrison said Watkins was the hardest trainer he had ever seen in his long career, and that he often had to be dragged off the training pitch.
This was in the context of discussing whether certain players had to be "held back" for their own good.
Post by: eamonn on March 15, 2023, 02:06:34 PM
Post by: Dave on March 15, 2023, 02:12:54 PM
Where did Morrison work with Ollie?
Were together at Exeter I think.
Post by: adrenachrome on March 15, 2023, 02:52:32 PM
Where did Morrison work with Ollie?
Were together at Exeter I think.
Correct, Dave.
Post by: eamonn on March 15, 2023, 03:06:16 PM
Post by: AV82EC on March 15, 2023, 03:20:53 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 15, 2023, 08:00:42 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 15, 2023, 08:20:26 PM
Gregg Evans says Watkins (and Mings) deserve an England call up. I think he's hinting at something, and I know some maybe not sure to trust him as being in the know but could well seem accurate herewhen you look at the England options , it’s either Ivan the betting slip or Watkins as back up to Kane.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 15, 2023, 08:26:18 PM
Gregg Evans says Watkins (and Mings) deserve an England call up. I think he's hinting at something, and I know some maybe not sure to trust him as being in the know but could well seem accurate herewhen you look at the England options , it’s either Ivan the betting slip or Watkins as back up to Kane.
Rashford should be the main striker and should have been for England in the summer.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 15, 2023, 08:28:31 PM
He really wants to play on the left, is not comfortable as a 9.Gregg Evans says Watkins (and Mings) deserve an England call up. I think he's hinting at something, and I know some maybe not sure to trust him as being in the know but could well seem accurate herewhen you look at the England options , it’s either Ivan the betting slip or Watkins as back up to Kane.
Rashford should be the main striker and should have been for England in the summer.
Post by: Clampy on March 15, 2023, 08:45:55 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on March 15, 2023, 08:58:37 PM
Gregg Evans says Watkins (and Mings) deserve an England call up. I think he's hinting at something, and I know some maybe not sure to trust him as being in the know but could well seem accurate herewhen you look at the England options , it’s either Ivan the betting slip or Watkins as back up to Kane.
Rashford should be the main striker and should have been for England in the summer.
Which Summer tournament? The World Cup was in November? So a striker who scored 8 goals between the Euros and the World Cup tournament should have replaced one who scored more then that just in the few months this season and 32 in the same time frame?
Post by: Flamingo Lane on March 16, 2023, 06:20:01 AM
I still don't know why he took bloody Callum Wilson.
No, he was and is an ineffective player, but somehow seemed to talk himself up into the squad.
Post by: paul_e on March 16, 2023, 09:57:35 AM
I still don't know why he took bloody Callum Wilson.
No, he was and is an ineffective player, but somehow seemed to talk himself up into the squad.
A lot of people on here have said he's better than Watkins over the last 2-3 years (usually immediately after a round of games where Wilson scored and Watkins didn't). Personally I think Wilson is overrated, injury-prone and a bit of a prick who thinks he's far better than he is.
Post by: eamonn on March 16, 2023, 10:00:33 AM
Post by: Risso on March 16, 2023, 10:06:50 AM
I still don't know why he took bloody Callum Wilson.
No, he was and is an ineffective player, but somehow seemed to talk himself up into the squad.
He got something like 6 goals in 9 games in the run up to the World Cup, including two against us. I'm not sure that's all that ineffective. He's a good goal scorer, it's mainly been his injury record that has stopped him being a really top player,
Post by: Dave on March 16, 2023, 10:18:47 AM
I still don't know why he took bloody Callum Wilson.
No, he was and is an ineffective player, but somehow seemed to talk himself up into the squad.
He got something like 6 goals in 9 games in the run up to the World Cup, including two against us. I'm not sure that's all that ineffective. He's a good goal scorer, it's mainly been his injury record that has stopped him being a really top player,
Indeed. People are always complaining about not picking players on form - well, he was very much in form at the time.
The only real argument against taking Wilson was taking Toney instead - and I'm guessing the FA were aware of the "external factors" at play which meant that the coin flipped in favour of Wilson.
Post by: LeeB on March 16, 2023, 10:28:43 AM
I still don't know why he took bloody Callum Wilson.
No, he was and is an ineffective player, but somehow seemed to talk himself up into the squad.
He got something like 6 goals in 9 games in the run up to the World Cup, including two against us. I'm not sure that's all that ineffective. He's a good goal scorer, it's mainly been his injury record that has stopped him being a really top player,
Yeah, he'd been in form and Watkins hadn't. I like the way he plays and think he's a decent, proper centre forward, but his fitness is the issue.
Post by: brontebilly on March 16, 2023, 12:11:06 PM
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on March 16, 2023, 12:34:44 PM
Post by: Walmley_Villa on March 16, 2023, 02:05:48 PM
Post by: LeeB on March 16, 2023, 02:06:40 PM
It's a no from Gareth
Wanker.
*Gareth, not you
Post by: Walmley_Villa on March 16, 2023, 02:11:57 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on March 16, 2023, 02:13:17 PM
I’m sure Watkins (& Mings) were aware that they weren’t in with a shout of a squad place, although both must be wondering what else they can do to get in the squad.
This mirrors the test cricket squad up until fairly recently, harder to get out of the squad once you’re in than to get in it in the first place.
Post by: Risso on March 16, 2023, 02:13:52 PM
Southgate, not LeeB.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 16, 2023, 02:29:39 PM
Post by: villadelph on March 16, 2023, 02:32:00 PM
Post by: Walmley_Villa on March 16, 2023, 02:34:54 PM
Post by: usav on March 16, 2023, 02:42:06 PM
Post by: Dave on March 16, 2023, 02:46:38 PM
Maguire and Dire in, the usual suspects
Maguire in is just daft. I was completely on board with taking him to the World Cup as there wasn't an obvious, younger, better option with the relevant experience. And the decision to do so was fully vindicated.
But right now is exactly the time that you play the younger option to give them the experience so you don't need to take Maguire next time.
Post by: Risso on March 16, 2023, 02:51:17 PM
*He's mostly been played as an 89th minute sub, but still. :)
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 16, 2023, 03:04:02 PM
How does it feel to be, say, Mings or Lewis Dunk, for example, when they know Harry Maguire is going to be ahead of them, practically without even playing any actual club football?
Post by: Risso on March 16, 2023, 03:12:30 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 16, 2023, 03:17:39 PM
Post by: SamTheMouse on March 16, 2023, 03:17:47 PM
Post by: JUAN PABLO on March 16, 2023, 03:28:58 PM
And Philips and dyer wtf
Southgate is an.absolute idiot , and has already cost a England probably a least a trophy
Post by: Monty on March 16, 2023, 03:31:54 PM
Mind you, a couple of penalties away from the Euros is not a terrible record, or down to the coach at all really.
Post by: VILLA MOLE on March 16, 2023, 03:37:48 PM
And Kalvin Phillips, who has played as a many PL minutes as me this season.
Southgate has obviously said he will get him fit for Pep , he is good like that
Fuck off England i care less and less every game
Post by: Risso on March 16, 2023, 03:44:05 PM
Post by: JUAN PABLO on March 16, 2023, 03:50:28 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 16, 2023, 03:52:16 PM
Southgate is the MON of the England men's team. The strengths he has help him overcome his weaknesses right up to the crucial final step - but it's those weaknesses which stop him from taking that.
Mind you, a couple of penalties away from the Euros is not a terrible record, or down to the coach at all really.
It is down to him as his team should never have had to go to penalties. He's a liability.
Post by: olaftab on March 16, 2023, 04:00:20 PM
Post by: LeeB on March 16, 2023, 04:03:01 PM
He really is a horse-faced twat.
Southgate, not LeeB.
Ha! Anyway, for clarity click link below...
https://twitter.com/TheVillaPodcast/status/1636369907494551552?t=KamE7NP83t8PkpxIG_LjlA&s=19 (https://twitter.com/TheVillaPodcast/status/1636369907494551552?t=KamE7NP83t8PkpxIG_LjlA&s=19)
Post by: Paul.S on March 16, 2023, 04:11:07 PM
Post by: Monty on March 16, 2023, 04:27:25 PM
Southgate is the MON of the England men's team. The strengths he has help him overcome his weaknesses right up to the crucial final step - but it's those weaknesses which stop him from taking that.
Mind you, a couple of penalties away from the Euros is not a terrible record, or down to the coach at all really.
It is down to him as his team should never have had to go to penalties. He's a liability.
That Italy team were on a proper roll, going to penalties with them was hardly like some sort of disgraceful cup upset. They were the favourites!
Post by: astonvilla82 on March 16, 2023, 04:29:53 PM
Southgate has said we lack depth and that’s why he continually picks the same players. It’s not what he said in 2017 so I guess England will go into the future with the same core group of players and coach who’ve failed when the going gets tough. If Maguire, Dyer, Gallagher and Phillips are the best we’ve got then English football needs to have a long hard look at itself.He's full of bullshit
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on March 16, 2023, 04:30:49 PM
Though we were 1-0 up after a minute, at home in a packed Wembley. And, led by Southgate, the team failed to register another single shot on target.Southgate is the MON of the England men's team. The strengths he has help him overcome his weaknesses right up to the crucial final step - but it's those weaknesses which stop him from taking that.
Mind you, a couple of penalties away from the Euros is not a terrible record, or down to the coach at all really.
It is down to him as his team should never have had to go to penalties. He's a liability.
That Italy team were on a proper roll, going to penalties with them was hardly like some sort of disgraceful cup upset. They were the favourites!
Post by: Monty on March 16, 2023, 04:33:24 PM
Though we were 1-0 up after a minute, at home in a packed Wembley. And, led by Southgate, the team failed to register another single shot on target.Southgate is the MON of the England men's team. The strengths he has help him overcome his weaknesses right up to the crucial final step - but it's those weaknesses which stop him from taking that.
Mind you, a couple of penalties away from the Euros is not a terrible record, or down to the coach at all really.
It is down to him as his team should never have had to go to penalties. He's a liability.
That Italy team were on a proper roll, going to penalties with them was hardly like some sort of disgraceful cup upset. They were the favourites!
Fair, but we're still talking about facing the (eventual) favourites for the competition.
Post by: villadelph on March 16, 2023, 04:35:09 PM
Southgate has said we lack depth and that’s why he continually picks the same players. It’s not what he said in 2017 so I guess England will go into the future with the same core group of players and coach who’ve failed when the going gets tough. If Maguire, Dyer, Gallagher and Phillips are the best we’ve got then English football needs to have a long hard look at itself.He's full of bullshit
You just cannot believe anything he says anymore. He waffled on Grealish, he's stubborn with Maguire, he valued game time then backtracked, he valued club standing then backtracked. It pisses us off as supporters but imagine being part of the youth setup having no fucking clue what the expectation is to get to the top.
He's not a manager - these players train with real coaches for 99% of their lives and show up to kick a ball around with some friends in blue shirts on England duty. If you let Southgate treat it like his own personal club, then this is what you get.
Just laugh at him, because everyone else is.
Post by: Paul.S on March 16, 2023, 04:36:10 PM
Southgate has said we lack depth and that’s why he continually picks the same players. It’s not what he said in 2017 so I guess England will go into the future with the same core group of players and coach who’ve failed when the going gets tough. If Maguire, Dyer, Gallagher and Phillips are the best we’ve got then English football needs to have a long hard look at itself.He's full of bullshit
He’s the coach so he can pick who he wants but I’d say he’s regretting making comments about picking players who are in form. What an about turn he’s made from that comment to picking players who can’t even get in their club team.
Post by: Dave on March 16, 2023, 04:45:52 PM
1) Southgate has done a perfectly decent job as England manager
2) Southgate could have done a better job as England manager
Post by: Somniloquism on March 16, 2023, 04:46:45 PM
Gregg Evans says Watkins (and Mings) deserve an England call up. I think he's hinting at something, and I know some maybe not sure to trust him as being in the know but could well seem accurate here
Some maybe not trust him as being in the know.
TBF, Gregg Evans was just posting his opinion that they deserve call-ups. I don't think anyone other then you thought he was hinting at something. If a journalist was ITK, or trying to make people believe they were, it is normally positioned as "Sources have said....." rather then his wording posted here.
Post by: Risso on March 16, 2023, 04:46:45 PM
Both of the following are true:
1) Southgate has done a perfectly decent job as England manager
2) Southgate could have done a better job as England manager
3) Gareth Southgate is a twat
Post by: olaftab on March 16, 2023, 04:50:26 PM
Are you on about the same team that failed miserably by not qualifying for the WC22?Southgate is the MON of the England men's team. The strengths he has help him overcome his weaknesses right up to the crucial final step - but it's those weaknesses which stop him from taking that.
Mind you, a couple of penalties away from the Euros is not a terrible record, or down to the coach at all really.
It is down to him as his team should never have had to go to penalties. He's a liability.
That Italy team were on a proper roll, going to penalties with them was hardly like some sort of disgraceful cup upset. They were the favourites!
Post by: Monty on March 16, 2023, 04:51:58 PM
Post by: olaftab on March 16, 2023, 04:53:21 PM
Duran and Buendia called up for their squadsThat’s terrible pick by the Argentinian coach, he should have stuck to players who were in the WC like our Gareth despite the fact that he WON the WC.
Post by: Somniloquism on March 16, 2023, 05:02:11 PM
That Italy team were on a proper roll, going to penalties with them was hardly like some sort of disgraceful cup upset. They were the favourites!Though we were 1-0 up after a minute, at home in a packed Wembley. And, led by Southgate, the team failed to register another single shot on target.
Fair, but we're still talking about facing the (eventual) favourites for the competition.
I'm assuming you meant on the day, before the competition they were 11/1 and last of the "main" country teams. Although even on the day the bookies were showing England as very slight favourites although obvious bias as English bookies.
Post by: Monty on March 16, 2023, 05:03:12 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on March 16, 2023, 05:09:20 PM
I sure do, hence the word 'eventual'.
That was in your second post, not the first. I suspect in England, they because 'eventual' favourites in the second half.
Post by: Monty on March 16, 2023, 05:16:43 PM
Post by: SamTheMouse on March 16, 2023, 05:18:44 PM
Both of the following are true:
1) Southgate has done a perfectly decent job as England manager
2) Southgate could have done a better job as England manager
This is clearly true, but it doesn't make for a fun debate. That's why it's important for at least some of us to keep calling Southgate a twat.
When Potter replaces him, he'll get the same treatment. Although we won't be able to use the epithet "horseface", which is a shame because it's childishly amusing.
Post by: Steve67 on March 16, 2023, 05:22:47 PM
Though we were 1-0 up after a minute, at home in a packed Wembley. And, led by Southgate, the team failed to register another single shot on target.Southgate is the MON of the England men's team. The strengths he has help him overcome his weaknesses right up to the crucial final step - but it's those weaknesses which stop him from taking that.
Mind you, a couple of penalties away from the Euros is not a terrible record, or down to the coach at all really.
It is down to him as his team should never have had to go to penalties. He's a liability.
That Italy team were on a proper roll, going to penalties with them was hardly like some sort of disgraceful cup upset. They were the favourites!
I absolutely agree. We have never had a better chance and Southgate managed to grab defeat from the jaws of victory. The yes man of all yes men. Articulate and clean, which is why the FA stick with him. We are creativeless, unimaginative and yet we have the strongest league in the world. Go figure. Southgate is a failed ****** who managed one tournament win with the kids. Wanker.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 16, 2023, 05:24:10 PM
Southgate is the MON of the England men's team. The strengths he has help him overcome his weaknesses right up to the crucial final step - but it's those weaknesses which stop him from taking that.
Mind you, a couple of penalties away from the Euros is not a terrible record, or down to the coach at all really.
It is down to him as his team should never have had to go to penalties. He's a liability.
That Italy team were on a proper roll, going to penalties with them was hardly like some sort of disgraceful cup upset. They were the favourites!
The same Italy team that 6 months later failed to qualify for the World Cup? England under Southgate have generally been mind numbingly dull despite him having so long and so much talent to play with.
Post by: Steve67 on March 16, 2023, 05:26:29 PM
Post by: Monty on March 16, 2023, 05:29:48 PM
Southgate is the MON of the England men's team. The strengths he has help him overcome his weaknesses right up to the crucial final step - but it's those weaknesses which stop him from taking that.
Mind you, a couple of penalties away from the Euros is not a terrible record, or down to the coach at all really.
It is down to him as his team should never have had to go to penalties. He's a liability.
That Italy team were on a proper roll, going to penalties with them was hardly like some sort of disgraceful cup upset. They were the favourites!
The same Italy team that 6 months later failed to qualify for the World Cup? England under Southgate have generally been mind numbingly dull despite him having so long and so much talent to play with.
I refer the Hon. Gent. to my earlier statement:
It's why I said 'on a roll' - believe me I know all about the bizarre collapse thereafter.
(Not sure why I'm in both court and Parliament but whatever.)
I do agree that Southgate is an inadequate, but I also think he's basically lucked his way to adequate-looking failures. The random, magic-8-ball nature of international tournaments can do that to a reputation sadly.
Post by: LeeB on March 16, 2023, 05:31:33 PM
Then he gets banned from football for 6 months.
I think you're giving yourself a headache you didn't need to. Why not wait until he's completed whatever punishment comes down?
Post by: Pete3206 on March 16, 2023, 05:32:18 PM
Post by: LeeB on March 16, 2023, 05:34:25 PM
Glad Watkins not in the squad. If he got injured in a 10 minute cameo, we'd be stuffed.
Yeah, good point.
Post by: Nunkin1965 on March 16, 2023, 05:50:33 PM
So he gets 5 minutes, maybe here and there, where he could be working on his game with us which is going well btw.
Post by: Dave on March 16, 2023, 05:53:08 PM
The yes man of all yes men. Articulate and clean, which is why the FA stick with him.
Well...also because he's never done badly enough to warrant his removal and there hasn't been an obvious alternative at any point when he would have been replaced.
Post by: dave shelley on March 16, 2023, 05:53:38 PM
Post by: frank black on March 16, 2023, 05:57:25 PM
The yes man of all yes men. Articulate and clean, which is why the FA stick with him.
Well...also because he's never done badly enough to warrant his removal and there hasn't been an obvious alternative at any point when he would have been replaced.
TBF he wasn’t an obvious choice for the England role. I agree he hasn’t done enough to be sacked. Just wasted a lot of opportunities to do something successful. It’s frustrating as hell, as I believe that he’s completely useless when it comes to the big games.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 16, 2023, 06:07:39 PM
Yep.Though we were 1-0 up after a minute, at home in a packed Wembley. And, led by Southgate, the team failed to register another single shot on target.Southgate is the MON of the England men's team. The strengths he has help him overcome his weaknesses right up to the crucial final step - but it's those weaknesses which stop him from taking that.
Mind you, a couple of penalties away from the Euros is not a terrible record, or down to the coach at all really.
It is down to him as his team should never have had to go to penalties. He's a liability.
That Italy team were on a proper roll, going to penalties with them was hardly like some sort of disgraceful cup upset. They were the favourites!
I absolutely agree. We have never had a better chance and Southgate managed to grab defeat from the jaws of victory. The yes man of all yes men. Articulate and clean, which is why the FA stick with him. We are creativeless, unimaginative and yet we have the strongest league in the world. Go figure. Southgate is a failed ****** who managed one tournament win with the kids. Wanker.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on March 16, 2023, 06:22:13 PM
Glad Watkins not in the squad. If he got injured in a 10 minute cameo, we'd be stuffed.
Very good point. Thank you Gareth, love you.
Post by: Steve67 on March 16, 2023, 06:44:46 PM
The yes man of all yes men. Articulate and clean, which is why the FA stick with him.
Well...also because he's never done badly enough to warrant his removal and there hasn't been an obvious alternative at any point when he would have been replaced.
Turn that on its head Dave. What on earth did he actually do to warrant getting the job in the first place? There are plenty of others out there who would fancy the role, I'm sure, but England is for the English, it seems with this FA.
Post by: Dave on March 16, 2023, 06:59:58 PM
The yes man of all yes men. Articulate and clean, which is why the FA stick with him.
Well...also because he's never done badly enough to warrant his removal and there hasn't been an obvious alternative at any point when he would have been replaced.
Turn that on its head Dave. What on earth did he actually do to warrant getting the job in the first place?
Be willing to take it? After Hodgson and then the Allardyce debacle the FA couldn't find anyone, considering the mess that the England setup was in at the time.
Even Southgate refused to take the job at first.
Post by: Pete3206 on March 16, 2023, 07:50:34 PM
Post by: Taylor on March 16, 2023, 07:52:00 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 16, 2023, 08:56:26 PM
So there was actually no need to leave Tonev out of the World Cup squad?
Tonev should be left out of all World Cup squads. Unless you need to send a ball into outer space during the opening ceremony
Post by: Grande Pablo on March 16, 2023, 09:32:12 PM
So there was actually no need to leave Tonev out of the World Cup squad?
Tonev should be left out of all World Cup squads. Unless you need to send a ball into outer space during the opening ceremony
The anti-Diana Ross. Quite a twosome.
Post by: Somniloquism on March 16, 2023, 09:53:02 PM
So there was actually no need to leave Tonev out of the World Cup squad?
Tonev should be left out of all World Cup squads. Unless you need to send a ball into outer space during the opening ceremony
The anti-Diana Ross. Quite a twosome.
Salah did his tribute of the Diana Ross penalty the other day didn't he.
Post by: olaftab on March 16, 2023, 09:57:36 PM
Indeed you cleansed yourself of all sins with reply to my vindictive post. Forgive RCF for he’s not to be blamed for the fact the Portugal is couple of hours behind UK or should be.Southgate is the MON of the England men's team. The strengths he has help him overcome his weaknesses right up to the crucial final step - but it's those weaknesses which stop him from taking that.
Mind you, a couple of penalties away from the Euros is not a terrible record, or down to the coach at all really.
It is down to him as his team should never have had to go to penalties. He's a liability.
That Italy team were on a proper roll, going to penalties with them was hardly like some sort of disgraceful cup upset. They were the favourites!
The same Italy team that 6 months later failed to qualify for the World Cup? England under Southgate have generally been mind numbingly dull despite him having so long and so much talent to play with.
I refer the Hon. Gent. to my earlier statement:It's why I said 'on a roll' - believe me I know all about the bizarre collapse thereafter.
Post by: olaftab on March 16, 2023, 10:01:45 PM
Both of the following are true:1 is like being praised for finding a bucket of water in the middle of an ocean.
1) Southgate has done a perfectly decent job as England manager
2) Southgate could have done a better job as England manager
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 16, 2023, 10:10:09 PM
Glad Watkins not in the squad. If he got injured in a 10 minute cameo, we'd be stuffed.
Very good point. Thank you Gareth, love you.
There is still a chance of Watkins being called up to the squad with players becoming available after the weekend matches.
Chief causes would be injury.
That inevitably happens.
Even so Gregg Evans technically got it wrong with his Watkins and Mings call up
Post by: Louzie0 on March 16, 2023, 10:27:26 PM
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=talking+heads+life+during+wartime&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari
I don’t know if it works for anybody else but I feel better.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on March 16, 2023, 10:45:29 PM
I’m just so irritated by the selection and this is what I just programmed on Alexa
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=talking+heads+life+during+wartime&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari
I don’t know if it works for anybody else but I feel better.
Great version of a great song
Post by: The Edge on March 16, 2023, 11:04:33 PM
I can't stand the FA or Southgate as a coach but it's a fact that no country has ever won the World Cup with a foreign coach.The yes man of all yes men. Articulate and clean, which is why the FA stick with him.
Well...also because he's never done badly enough to warrant his removal and there hasn't been an obvious alternative at any point when he would have been replaced.
Turn that on its head Dave. What on earth did he actually do to warrant getting the job in the first place? There are plenty of others out there who would fancy the role, I'm sure, but England is for the English, it seems with this FA.
Post by: villadelph on March 16, 2023, 11:09:38 PM
I can't stand the FA or Southgate as a coach but it's a fact that no country has ever won the World Cup with a foreign coach.The yes man of all yes men. Articulate and clean, which is why the FA stick with him.
Well...also because he's never done badly enough to warrant his removal and there hasn't been an obvious alternative at any point when he would have been replaced.
Turn that on its head Dave. What on earth did he actually do to warrant getting the job in the first place? There are plenty of others out there who would fancy the role, I'm sure, but England is for the English, it seems with this FA.
Give it to Dean.
Post by: Axl Rose on March 16, 2023, 11:38:26 PM
Both of the following are true:1 is like being praised for finding a bucket of water in the middle of an ocean.
1) Southgate has done a perfectly decent job as England manager
2) Southgate could have done a better job as England manager
Ha! Isn't it just. Southgate is an utter scrotum
Post by: LeonW on March 17, 2023, 05:47:07 AM
Post by: Ian. on March 17, 2023, 06:55:04 AM
He’s too safe for my liking at that level.
Post by: nigel on March 17, 2023, 07:41:31 AM
Southgate just isn’t brave enough. Rashford was in superb form leading up to the World Cup and played him once, which he scored. Similar to the Euros with Grealish, a player in the form of his life and snubbed constantly.
He’s too safe for my liking at that level.
Definitely, and it cost England the Euros.
Post by: RamboandBruno on March 17, 2023, 08:16:20 AM
Im losing interest in Engerland as i get older, my son castigated me after the WC QF for not caring enough when they got knocked out, i was actually very very hungover after my work xmas doo. So e of this growing disinterest is age i think, but some of is down to the frustration with Southgate and in particular his hypocrisy. Bringing Grealish on with what 8 mins to go in the Euro final, when it was crying out for him, after bringing him on and then off in the semi final, after he arguably changed the direction of the game, just smelt of Southgate not wanting Grealish to be the centre of attention. Bringing Rashford on for a minute to take a penalty cold, letting a very young Saka take such an important penalty instead of the likes of Grealish, just all really shit management.Southgate just isn’t brave enough. Rashford was in superb form leading up to the World Cup and played him once, which he scored. Similar to the Euros with Grealish, a player in the form of his life and snubbed constantly.
He’s too safe for my liking at that level.
Definitely, and it cost England the Euros.
I quite liked his apparent sincerity and niceness at first, made a change from the huge egos at play in the premier league. But its bullshit, he lies and moves the goal posts constantly about players need to do to get in the squad and in particular the team. Maguire, Dier, Mount, Phillips, even Grealish becoming a regular last year when not even in Man Citys side. Just a waste of a weekend when id rather be watching Emerys Villa.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 17, 2023, 08:39:47 AM
I used to be an England supporter and have travelled away with them but now I just don’t give a f***
Post by: WarszaVillan on March 17, 2023, 09:00:02 AM
Post by: Risso on March 17, 2023, 09:06:03 AM
I've never supported England and never will. I follow Scotland and Poland. But the current bunch of players seem much more likeable and articulate than previous teams - particularly the Terry era.
I think it's a mixed bag, as ever. You'd hardly say that Grealish or Kane are especially articulate, and then you've got Kyle Walker exposing himself in a nightclub.
Post by: WarszaVillan on March 17, 2023, 09:32:18 AM
I've never supported England and never will. I follow Scotland and Poland. But the current bunch of players seem much more likeable and articulate than previous teams - particularly the Terry era.
I think it's a mixed bag, as ever. You'd hardly say that Grealish or Kane are especially articulate, and then you've got Kyle Walker exposing himself in a nightclub.
True, and Walker seems particularly unpleasant. But a core of the young players have excelled themselves off the pitch in pretty difficult circumstances. Southgate is prick mind.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 17, 2023, 09:37:37 AM
Post by: Risso on March 17, 2023, 09:40:23 AM
I've never supported England and never will. I follow Scotland and Poland. But the current bunch of players seem much more likeable and articulate than previous teams - particularly the Terry era.
I think it's a mixed bag, as ever. You'd hardly say that Grealish or Kane are especially articulate, and then you've got Kyle Walker exposing himself in a nightclub.
True, and Walker seems particularly unpleasant. But a core of the young players have excelled themselves off the pitch in pretty difficult circumstances. Southgate is prick mind.
Rashford and Saka are decent lads. Even without the betting stuff, Toney looks a bit of an arse to me.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on March 17, 2023, 09:59:58 AM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 17, 2023, 10:23:54 AM
Literally Rashford, Saka and Kane are the only players who are really the best behaved off the field. The rest of that squad players have all some indiscretion one way or another. Jordan Henderson and Declan Rice habe improved themselevs and all the players have improved their responsibilities but they don't really compare to Rashford Saka and Kane who are exceptional and great role models.I've never supported England and never will. I follow Scotland and Poland. But the current bunch of players seem much more likeable and articulate than previous teams - particularly the Terry era.
I think it's a mixed bag, as ever. You'd hardly say that Grealish or Kane are especially articulate, and then you've got Kyle Walker exposing himself in a nightclub.
True, and Walker seems particularly unpleasant. But a core of the young players have excelled themselves off the pitch in pretty difficult circumstances. Southgate is prick mind.
Rashford and Saka are decent lads. Even without the betting stuff, Toney looks a bit of an arse to me.
Post by: Baldy on March 17, 2023, 10:29:19 AM
The thought of having to tell anyone 'I am no longer picking you because you are crap' does not appeal to him.
Hence, same old shit, again and again. >:(
Post by: Risso on March 17, 2023, 10:56:37 AM
Post by: placeforparks on March 17, 2023, 11:02:45 AM
The horse-faced twat doesn't like to offend anyone. Very 'lick arse' and politically correct.
You're Lee Anderson, and I claim my 30p
Post by: Dave on March 17, 2023, 11:05:43 AM
The horse-faced twat doesn't like to offend anyone. Very 'lick arse' and politically correct.
The thought of having to tell anyone 'I am no longer picking you because you are crap' does not appeal to him.
Pretty sure no England manager in history would have said that to anyone.
Post by: LeeB on March 17, 2023, 11:08:54 AM
Yes, I want them to win at a tournament, but even in the Euro final when we lost I just made a cup of tea and that was it. I'd have been devastated for days had that happened to us.
Post by: Drummond on March 17, 2023, 12:52:38 PM
Glad Watkins not in the squad. If he got injured in a 10 minute cameo, we'd be stuffed.
Very good point. Thank you Gareth, love you.
There is still a chance of Watkins being called up to the squad with players becoming available after the weekend matches.
Chief causes would be injury.
That inevitably happens.
Even so Gregg Evans technically got it wrong with his Watkins and Mings call up
Hang on, how can ITK Gregg Evans not be ITK?
Post by: Drummond on March 17, 2023, 12:55:38 PM
Footy, there's nonsense, and then there's potentially libellous nonsense. Suggesting that only three England players aren't indecent is a really silly thing to say, and could get you and the site into trouble.
Nah, not if you look at what the person using that term deems to be indecent...... :-)
Post by: Somniloquism on March 17, 2023, 01:24:26 PM
There is still a chance of Watkins being called up to the squad with players becoming available after the weekend matches.
Chief causes would be injury.
That inevitably happens.
Even so Gregg Evans technically got it wrong with his Watkins and Mings call up
Hang on, how can ITK Gregg Evans not be ITK?
Only Footy thought Gregg writing an opinion piece that Watkins and Mings deserve a call up on current form for them compared to others, was Gregg being ITK about the team selection.
Post by: Somniloquism on March 17, 2023, 01:25:34 PM
Footy, there's nonsense, and then there's potentially libellous nonsense. Suggesting that only three England players aren't indecent is a really silly thing to say, and could get you and the site into trouble.
Nah, not if you look at what the person using that term deems to be indecent...... :-)
I expect Kane might have been to Dublin in the past.
Post by: brontebilly on March 17, 2023, 01:29:18 PM
The horse-faced twat doesn't like to offend anyone. Very 'lick arse' and politically correct.
The thought of having to tell anyone 'I am no longer picking you because you are crap' does not appeal to him.
Hence, same old shit, again and again. >:(
All that makes his selection of Toney all the more strange. On form, sure Toney is ahead maybe marginally of Watkins. Selections of Phillips, Gallagher and Mount suggest form isn't what Southgate particularly values anyway. Phillips is a figure of fun for Man City fans!
Mings has a much stronger case for me. He has been solid in the main all season for us. Dier and Maguire have been poor and/or out of favour for their clubs. Don't think Guehi is much better than Mings either.
Post by: KevinGage on March 17, 2023, 01:35:03 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on March 17, 2023, 01:46:33 PM
Post by: villadelph on March 17, 2023, 02:06:31 PM
Literally Rashford, Saka and Kane are the only players who don't do indecency off the field. The rest of that squad players have all some indiscretion one way or another. Jordan Henderson and Declan Rice habe improved themselevs and all the players have improved their responsibilities but they don't really compare to Rashford Saka and Kane who are exceptional and great role models.I've never supported England and never will. I follow Scotland and Poland. But the current bunch of players seem much more likeable and articulate than previous teams - particularly the Terry era.
I think it's a mixed bag, as ever. You'd hardly say that Grealish or Kane are especially articulate, and then you've got Kyle Walker exposing himself in a nightclub.
True, and Walker seems particularly unpleasant. But a core of the young players have excelled themselves off the pitch in pretty difficult circumstances. Southgate is prick mind.
Rashford and Saka are decent lads. Even without the betting stuff, Toney looks a bit of an arse to me.
Huh?
Bellingham, Gallagher, Stones, Mount, TAA, Dier, Pope, Phillips, etc.. all troublemakers then? If they've done anything enlighten us..
Post by: Exeter 77 on March 17, 2023, 02:18:31 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on March 17, 2023, 02:24:50 PM
Post by: adrenachrome on March 17, 2023, 02:47:43 PM
I must admit I'm curious to know who the manager is who would have not just equalled everything Southgate has done in major tournaments but surpassed it.
Mike Basset fo sho mofo.
(https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article832687.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Ricky%20Tomlinson%20in%20Mike%20Bassett:%20England%20Manager)
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 17, 2023, 05:02:42 PM
Post by: Mister E on March 17, 2023, 08:13:59 PM
All that makes his selection of Toney all the more strange. On form, sure Toney is ahead maybe marginally of Watkins. Selections of Phillips, Gallagher and Mount suggest form isn't what Southgate particularly values anyway. Phillips is a figure of fun for Man City fans!I'm just catching up and am amazed that Horsehead has selected some of the same tired old faces ... defies belief when club form is taken into acount. Dier, MaGuire, Phillips, Guehi, Gallagher - jeez, I despair.
Mings has a much stronger case for me. He has been solid in the main all season for us. Dier and Maguire have been poor and/or out of favour for their clubs. Don't think Guehi is much better than Mings either.
I'm glad I'm not really invested in the Ingerland thing.
Post by: LeonW on March 17, 2023, 08:33:42 PM
I must admit I'm curious to know who the manager is who would have not just equalled everything Southgate has done in major tournaments but surpassed it.
Just ‘a manager’ probably.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 17, 2023, 08:37:03 PM
I must admit I'm curious to know who the manager is who would have not just equalled everything Southgate has done in major tournaments but surpassed it.
Well it’s difficult to talk hypothetically, but based on history one England manager has achieved more than Southgate.
Post by: KevinGage on March 17, 2023, 08:41:29 PM
Post by: Risso on March 17, 2023, 08:42:25 PM
If Watkins scores again this season he'll be the first English man to score 10 goals for Villa in 3 consecutive seasons since Agbonlahor
Not true, Benteke has done it more recently than Agbonlahor.
Post by: algy on March 17, 2023, 08:48:07 PM
Benteke isn’t English thoughIf Watkins scores again this season he'll be the first English man to score 10 goals for Villa in 3 consecutive seasons since Agbonlahor
Not true, Benteke has done it more recently than Agbonlahor.
Post by: Villa in Denmark on March 17, 2023, 08:49:28 PM
Never mind that how's his Spanish and has he been to Dublin?Benteke isn’t English thoughIf Watkins scores again this season he'll be the first English man to score 10 goals for Villa in 3 consecutive seasons since Agbonlahor
Not true, Benteke has done it more recently than Agbonlahor.
Post by: Risso on March 17, 2023, 08:52:44 PM
Post by: eamonn on March 17, 2023, 10:58:29 PM
Never mind that how's his Spanish and has he been to Dublin?Benteke isn’t English thoughIf Watkins scores again this season he'll be the first English man to score 10 goals for Villa in 3 consecutive seasons since Agbonlahor
Not true, Benteke has done it more recently than Agbonlahor.
Yes, he went to see Dion for tips on how to lead the line at the Villa before sealing his move from Genk.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 18, 2023, 01:06:39 PM
https://twitter.com/PreeceObserver/status/1310317635368882178
1000 kisses for a brace or hat trick today!
I hopeful of him delivering!
Post by: Bad English on March 18, 2023, 05:37:05 PM
Post by: Smirker on March 18, 2023, 05:48:18 PM
That shot he got off in the second half when he turned the defender inside out and created a shot out of nowhere was classic Watkins.
A frustrating player. Come on Ollie improve your finishing! If he can do that he's a £50m player.
Post by: Neil Hawkes on March 18, 2023, 06:10:50 PM
That finish today when he was clear for a one on one was classic Watkins.A shout out to their keeper Neto, he's been very good, (despite letting in 3).
That shot he got off in the second half when he turned the defender inside out and created a shot out of nowhere was classic Watkins.
A frustrating player. Come on Ollie improve your finishing! If he can do that he's a £50m player.
AND what a name for a keeper, he could come to us as Emi back up when they go down - he'd see us through cup games no problems.
Post by: Ian. on March 18, 2023, 06:15:45 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 18, 2023, 06:23:34 PM
I’d credit the keeper more than knock Ollie with that effort.
I nagree, the keeper did very well. In truth the 'right' thing to do would've been to knock the ball into Bailey's path for a tap in, but no striker would do that.
Post by: brontebilly on March 18, 2023, 06:24:55 PM
I’d credit the keeper more than knock Ollie with that effort.
I nagree, the keeper did very well. In truth the 'right' thing to do would've been to knock the ball into Bailey's path for a tap in, but no striker would do that.
Should have gone around with a shake of the hips Dwight Yorke style ! Keeper did well, he was out quick. Great run by Watkins and lovely through ball by Buendia.
Post by: Risso on March 18, 2023, 06:28:45 PM
Post by: Smithy on March 18, 2023, 06:29:49 PM
Post by: Ian. on March 18, 2023, 07:19:35 PM
I’d credit the keeper more than knock Ollie with that effort.
I nagree, the keeper did very well. In truth the 'right' thing to do would've been to knock the ball into Bailey's path for a tap in, but no striker would do that.
Should have gone around with a shake of the hips Dwight Yorke style ! Keeper did well, he was out quick. Great run by Watkins and lovely through ball by Buendia.
Yorke, however was most definitely world class. An unbelievable talent.
Post by: Dante Lavelli on March 18, 2023, 07:27:10 PM
I’d credit the keeper more than knock Ollie with that effort.
I nagree, the keeper did very well. In truth the 'right' thing to do would've been to knock the ball into Bailey's path for a tap in, but no striker would do that.
Should have gone around with a shake of the hips Dwight Yorke style ! Keeper did well, he was out quick. Great run by Watkins and lovely through ball by Buendia.
Yorke, however was most definitely world class. An unbelievable talent.
Stop it! It’s still too soon.
(The first time I was crushed by a player leaving)
Post by: Ian. on March 18, 2023, 08:41:42 PM
I’d credit the keeper more than knock Ollie with that effort.
I nagree, the keeper did very well. In truth the 'right' thing to do would've been to knock the ball into Bailey's path for a tap in, but no striker would do that.
Should have gone around with a shake of the hips Dwight Yorke style ! Keeper did well, he was out quick. Great run by Watkins and lovely through ball by Buendia.
Yorke, however was most definitely world class. An unbelievable talent.
Stop it! It’s still too soon.
(The first time I was crushed by a player leaving)
Mine was Platt, then Yorke. Both times absolutely devastated. Actually I still am, not sure I ever got over either of them.
Post by: colin69 on March 18, 2023, 08:47:09 PM
Post by: adrenachrome on March 18, 2023, 10:07:36 PM
And then Slogger to fuckin Small Heath.
Kin ell.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 19, 2023, 12:39:22 AM
Mine was Andy Gray.
Not sure I cried but I certainly sulked for a year until I saw Peter Withe, possibly the most under estimated centre forward of all time. His chest alone was worth the transfer fee.
Post by: maidstonevillain on March 20, 2023, 03:15:44 PM
A call-up for Ollie?
Post by: LeeB on March 20, 2023, 03:16:56 PM
Rashford and Mount out of the England team.
A call-up for Ollie?
"We know Troy hasn't played top flight football for a while but he brings leadership qualities to the group"
Post by: danno on March 20, 2023, 03:18:07 PM
But why call up Mount if you know he’s injured? Potter even said the other day he wasn’t going.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 20, 2023, 03:19:34 PM
Footy, there's nonsense, and then there's potentially libellous nonsense. Suggesting that only three England players aren't indecent is a really silly thing to say, and could get you and the site into trouble.Maybe misunderstanding on indecency as I mean it in terms of playing up. I'm not suggesting all are of magnitude of Kyle Walker but more they all been reports of things on any player. So that was I alluding.
I mean, 'not the best behavior then' by a footballer.
Sorry!
Post by: paul_e on March 20, 2023, 03:25:47 PM
I know the obvious answer is that Southgate’s a Twat, because he is.
But why call up Mount if you know he’s injured? Potter even said the other day he wasn’t going.
Could it be so the player is still free to go to team meetings, etc? Without central contracts like rugby and cricket I assume this is the easiest way to ensure injured players, who are in your plans, are still included in the group.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 20, 2023, 05:06:54 PM
Evans is still wrong and I will be right! For Watkins to come in for Rashford we all suspectGlad Watkins not in the squad. If he got injured in a 10 minute cameo, we'd be stuffed.
Very good point. Thank you Gareth, love you.
There is still a chance of Watkins being called up to the squad with players becoming available after the weekend matches.
Chief causes would be injury.
That inevitably happens.
Even so Gregg Evans technically got it wrong with his Watkins and Mings call up
Hang on, how can ITK Gregg Evans not be ITK?
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 20, 2023, 05:28:15 PM
Post by: Risso on March 20, 2023, 05:29:38 PM
Rashford and Mount out of the England team.
A call-up for Ollie?
"We know Troy hasn't played top flight football for a while but he brings leadership qualities to the group"
“Mason Greenwood hasn’t been found guilty of anything, and he’s played nearly as many minutes as Kelvin Phillips”
Post by: Chap on March 21, 2023, 08:14:50 AM
Mine was Andy Gray.
Not sure I cried but I certainly sulked for a year until I saw Peter Withe, possibly the most under estimated centre forward of all time. His chest alone was worth the transfer fee.
His shin certainly was!😁
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 26, 2023, 09:34:07 PM
Watkins is ranking as a top 4 Premier League player for headed goals and top 5 at winning headed duels in opponents half
Only three players in the league are ahead of Ollie in terms of scoring with their head this season, and he rates fifth in terms of winning aerial duels in the opposing half.
Post by: exigo on March 27, 2023, 06:41:27 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/vJNqsNC/20230325-140949.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vJNqsNC)
Post by: Mister E on March 27, 2023, 07:22:11 PM
Mine was Andy Gray.yup
Post by: Mister E on March 27, 2023, 07:27:58 PM
Evans is still wrong and I will be right! For Watkins to come in for Rashford we all suspectthis self-rectitude is becoming very tedious, especially as regards Southgate who is clearly not going to select a Villa player anytime soon.
Post by: Pete3206 on March 27, 2023, 08:47:59 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 27, 2023, 09:15:46 PM
Mine was Andy Gray.yup
I've always wanted to know how good Alan McInally was as he moved to Bayern Munich.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 28, 2023, 07:40:53 AM
When fit, he was a majestic player, great first touch, good eye for goal, great upper body strength, not the quickest.Mine was Andy Gray.yup
I've always wanted to know how good Alan McInally was as he moved to Bayern Munich.
Biggest problem was hamstrings, i seem to recall.
Post by: darren woolley on March 28, 2023, 09:22:21 AM
Nice to see Ollie remembered fondly at Exeter on Saturday. Couple of fans behind us were still raving about the time he scored the winner at St James Park against Plymouth. This is the goal in question. Foot like a traction engine. (https://youtube.com/watch?v=mtSEa4I0f6U&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE&t=89)
(https://i.ibb.co/vJNqsNC/20230325-140949.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vJNqsNC)
What a brilliant goal by Ollie.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 28, 2023, 11:00:10 AM
Thank you. He seemed quite revered working on Sky Sports for a long while. Always wondered how he was as a striker and never hear him mentioned so much.When fit, he was a majestic player, great first touch, good eye for goal, great upper body strength, not the quickest.Mine was Andy Gray.yup
I've always wanted to know how good Alan McInally was as he moved to Bayern Munich.
Biggest problem was hamstrings, i seem to recall.
Post by: Smithy on March 28, 2023, 11:24:54 AM
Thank you. He seemed quite revered working on Sky Sports for a long while. Always wondered how he was as a striker and never hear him mentioned so much.When fit, he was a majestic player, great first touch, good eye for goal, great upper body strength, not the quickest.Mine was Andy Gray.yup
I've always wanted to know how good Alan McInally was as he moved to Bayern Munich.
Biggest problem was hamstrings, i seem to recall.
I was only about 14 at the time, but I seem to remember the money offered by Bayern (I think over a million?) was quite a lot back then? I think they came for him because he scored a relatively large number of goals for a team that was struggling in the top division. I always like to think the Rambo money was used to buy McGrath (I'm sure that wasn't the reality, but it's how teenage me looked at it as the next couple of years unfolded). Plus his loss was quickly forgotten as we challenged for the title the following year. I think had we struggled again, or worse been relegated, history would regard his importance to the team much higher than it actually does.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 28, 2023, 11:34:56 AM
Post by: rob_bridge on March 28, 2023, 11:01:57 PM
In reality the key was Keown/Evans partnership and the 2 Grays made us a much better side. Blend of experience (S Gray and Evans were European Cup winners) and Keown and Andy Gray were excellent talents at the time.
Agree with PWS we got a fortune - he was a 500k player (at best) and we got a million due to that 1988/89 first half of the season including goal of the season IIRC. Bayern had bucketloads of money from selling Klinsmann and co to Inter.
On this occasion maybe give Doug some credit.
Post by: LeeB on March 29, 2023, 08:43:50 AM
Post by: Drummond on March 29, 2023, 09:19:15 AM
Mussolini made the trains run on time but he was still a c**t
Yeah and Hitler was a snazzy dresser!
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 29, 2023, 11:22:48 AM
Mussolini made the trains run on time but he was still a c**t
Shall I tell him or will I leave it to Monty?
Post by: Monty on March 29, 2023, 11:24:20 AM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on April 01, 2023, 10:44:59 AM
Post by: RamboandBruno on April 01, 2023, 11:56:48 AM
Him coming into the team at the expense of Aspinall seemed to galvanise Gary Thompson. Rambo and Bruno were the pairing and we started to move up the table. Neither scored many but to be fair all teams knew they had been in a game after playing v those 2.
In reality the key was Keown/Evans partnership and the 2 Grays made us a much better side. Blend of experience (S Gray and Evans were European Cup winners) and Keown and Andy Gray were excellent talents at the time.
Agree with PWS we got a fortune - he was a 500k player (at best) and we got a million due to that 1988/89 first half of the season including goal of the season IIRC. Bayern had bucketloads of money from selling Klinsmann and co to Inter.
On this occasion maybe give Doug some credit.
I can look back now as a 49 year old and see that Thompson in particular but also McInally to an extent were limited players. But as a 14/15 year old, who had started going regularly mostly during our mid 80’s decline, they were heroes of mine for a couple of years. Thompson with his socks rolled down not in the Grealish fashion sense, but just in a don’t feck with me kind of look, with the bullet headers. McInally was so powerful when he was on form, the goal against Millwall in the league cup, with sadly a tiny crowd, when he barged through their defenders one after another from the halfway line, fantastic. I was gutted when he went, but in hindsight our struggles in 88-89 coincided with him not scoring for a lengthy spell, 20 games or something and that money probably did probably help to fund SGTs rebuild for 89-90.
Ill always look back with rose tinted glasses at both of these fellas.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 01, 2023, 08:26:23 PM
Post by: Mellin on April 01, 2023, 08:30:21 PM
Post by: OCD on April 01, 2023, 09:07:04 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 01, 2023, 09:25:09 PM
Apparently he's the first Villa player in the PL era to score in 5 consecutive away league games.
Read on another club's forum that he's the first Villa player to do it since Tony Hateley. No idea if that's the case, or just in the top flight.
Post by: eamonn on April 01, 2023, 10:24:05 PM
Interviewed on Soccer AM today. Nothing new really except he and all is family are Arsenal fans. Seems very happy though.
Hope he said how much he loves us, though. No one puts Villa in the corner.
Post by: adrenachrome on April 02, 2023, 12:46:44 AM
Apparently he's the first Villa player in the PL era to score in 5 consecutive away league games.
Read on another club's forum that he's the first Villa player to do it since Tony Hateley. No idea if that's the case, or just in the top flight.
Yes. Tony Hately did it in Division 1.
When we sold him to Chelsea in Autumn 1966, the writing was on the wall. According to Wiki, Tommy Docherty described his passing technique as "to whom it may concern", but he was phenomenal in the air.
Post by: aldridgeboy on April 02, 2023, 10:34:51 AM
I wanted Watkins replaced about 6 months ago. Have just come here to declare how wrong I was and eat humble pie. He was just another player who had shown what he was capable of and was being destroyed by a shit manager. Carry on all (especially Ollie).
Me too. Enjoying a rather large slice of humble pie.
His stats are very good. 38 goals in 106 games. 12 assists. One of only three to score over 10 in 3 successive seasons ( Kane and Salah). Scored against the top 6. 4 th highest scorer since the summer of 2020.
His last time he failed to score away from home was October !!
Fabulous. Long may it continue.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 02, 2023, 10:55:57 AM
I think his form could well have us rethinking our transfer plans. Hope he keeps it up.
Post by: darren woolley on April 02, 2023, 11:01:18 AM
Post by: SaddVillan on April 02, 2023, 11:04:05 AM
14 in 2020-21
11 in 2021-22
10 in 2022-23 - so far
Harry Kane and Mo Salah are the other 2.
Given the teams they play for then that makes Watkins' achievement all the more impressive, and also makes you wonder:
a) what is he worth?
b) why does Shitgate not pick him?
Post by: Nunkin1965 on April 02, 2023, 11:13:05 AM
I loved his lob over Kepa great goal.Yes brilliant finish and taken with supreme confidence considering his miss earlier.
He's absolutely flying and fair play to him.
Post by: olaftab on April 02, 2023, 03:40:12 PM
I loved his lob over Kepa great goal.Darren, Any idea why Ollie didn't celebrate the goal properly with relish?
Post by: BC Villain on April 02, 2023, 03:46:16 PM
Post by: Steve67 on April 02, 2023, 03:52:42 PM
BC, I think Agbonlahor got 74 in the Premier League.
I see Ollie has 10 this season. 34 altogether, so far.
Post by: Bad English on April 02, 2023, 03:56:38 PM
It's no big dill.I loved his lob over Kepa great goal.Darren, Any idea why Ollie didn't celebrate the goal properly with relish?
Post by: eamonn on April 02, 2023, 04:02:21 PM
How many more would he need to become our record Premier League goalscorer and remove the present incumbents relevance?
Asap hopefully. I want Gabriel Agbonlahor scrubbed from our records, he belongs on TalkShite Radio with his mate James O'Hara.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 02, 2023, 04:15:55 PM
Post by: dave shelley on April 02, 2023, 04:20:22 PM
Saunders
Dublin
Angel
Are four that immediately spring to mind.
Post by: Nunkin1965 on April 02, 2023, 04:23:41 PM
Joachim?
Post by: dave shelley on April 02, 2023, 04:24:20 PM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on April 02, 2023, 04:24:49 PM
Gabby
Carew
Angel
Vassell
Dublin
Joachim
Barry
Milner
Young
Yorke
Milosevic
Merson
Luke Moore
Downing
Saunders
Atkinson
Ian Taylor
Petrov
Weimann (I’m pretty sure this is wrong but I’m struggling now).
Edit: swapped Hendrie for Weimann.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 02, 2023, 04:38:01 PM
1, Gabby (73)
2, Yorke (60)
3, Dublin (48)
4, Angel (44)
5, Benteke (42)
6, Barry (41)
7, Joachim (39)
8, Carew (37)
8, Saunders (37)
10, Vassell (35)
11,
12, Young 30
13, Taylor 28
13, Savo 28
15, Hendrie 27
16, Atkinson 22
17,
18, Merson 18
19, Weimann 17
20,
Post by: chrisw1 on April 02, 2023, 04:40:05 PM
Scrap that, this is PL goals?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 02, 2023, 04:40:36 PM
Post by: Axl Rose on April 02, 2023, 04:41:00 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 02, 2023, 04:42:45 PM
11 is easy, 17 is both obvious and yet not, 20 isn't an obvious one you'd think of
Post by: Axl Rose on April 02, 2023, 04:42:57 PM
Ah, no can't be.
Post by: Nunkin1965 on April 02, 2023, 04:44:08 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 02, 2023, 04:44:15 PM
Post by: Axl Rose on April 02, 2023, 04:44:31 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on April 02, 2023, 04:44:45 PM
Post by: eamonn on April 02, 2023, 04:45:18 PM
Post by: Axl Rose on April 02, 2023, 04:45:30 PM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on April 02, 2023, 04:45:42 PM
Tommy Johnson?
Don’t laugh - Heskey?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 02, 2023, 04:45:58 PM
1, Gabby (73)
2, Yorke (60)
3, Dublin (48)
4, Angel (44)
5, Benteke (42)
6, Barry (41)
7, Joachim (39)
8, Carew (37)
8, Saunders (37)
10, Vassell (35)
11, Watkins (34)
12, Young (30)
13, Taylor (28)
13, Savo (28)
15, Hendrie (27)
16, Atkinson (22)
17, Bent (21)
18, Merson (18)
19, Weimann (17)
20, El Ghazi (15)
Post by: Percy McCarthy on April 02, 2023, 04:46:13 PM
Ollie is 11!
Of course!
Post by: Axl Rose on April 02, 2023, 04:47:11 PM
Ugo?
Tommy Johnson?
Don’t laugh - Heskey?
Haha. There's no way Heskey hit 10 even.
I'm trying to picture a single goal he scored for us, and can only think of Chelsea away.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 02, 2023, 04:47:40 PM
Bent is both obvious but as he got crocked so quickly you may not think he got enough to be on the list, and AEG isn't always easy to remember how many he did score.
Well done all
Post by: Percy McCarthy on April 02, 2023, 04:48:11 PM
Ugo?
Tommy Johnson?
Don’t laugh - Heskey?
Haha. There's no way Heskey hit 10 even.
I'm trying to picture a single goal he scored for us, and can only think of Chelsea away.
Scored on his debut I think.
Post by: Axl Rose on April 02, 2023, 04:48:59 PM
Ugo?
Tommy Johnson?
Don’t laugh - Heskey?
Haha. There's no way Heskey hit 10 even.
I'm trying to picture a single goal he scored for us, and can only think of Chelsea away.
Scored on his debut I think.
That he did, mate. Portsmouth?
Post by: Mellin on April 02, 2023, 04:49:38 PM
Sneaky behaviour from Ghazi there. And Heskey debut was 1-0 The Man Himself at Fratton Park.
Post by: dave shelley on April 02, 2023, 04:50:59 PM
Post by: eamonn on April 02, 2023, 04:51:54 PM
It's a bit cheeky, but you do love your stats :)
Post by: eamonn on April 02, 2023, 04:52:51 PM
Ugo?
Tommy Johnson?
Don’t laugh - Heskey?
Haha. There's no way Heskey hit 10 even.
I'm trying to picture a single goal he scored for us, and can only think of Chelsea away.
Scored on his debut I think.
A last minute headed winner at Molineux. Magnificent moment.
Post by: Axl Rose on April 02, 2023, 04:55:43 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 02, 2023, 04:56:19 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 02, 2023, 04:56:49 PM
Post by: Taylor on April 02, 2023, 04:57:29 PM
Really? I seem to remember him running on to a through ball and slotting home.Ugo?
Tommy Johnson?
Don’t laugh - Heskey?
Haha. There's no way Heskey hit 10 even.
I'm trying to picture a single goal he scored for us, and can only think of Chelsea away.
Scored on his debut I think.
A last minute headed winner at Molineux. Magnificent moment.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 02, 2023, 04:58:52 PM
Really? I seem to remember him running on to a through ball and slotting home.Ugo?
Tommy Johnson?
Don’t laugh - Heskey?
Haha. There's no way Heskey hit 10 even.
I'm trying to picture a single goal he scored for us, and can only think of Chelsea away.
Scored on his debut I think.
A last minute headed winner at Molineux. Magnificent moment.
The Wolves winner was a great header. The Portsmouth debut goal was a through ball and finish.
This makes him sound better than he was.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 02, 2023, 05:02:12 PM
Post by: paul_e on April 02, 2023, 05:03:38 PM
Post by: rob_bridge on April 02, 2023, 05:18:47 PM
This was a top notch lethal finish
Ha - 'It's gone in off Emile Heskey'
Post by: olaftab on April 02, 2023, 05:21:28 PM
He scored in the Blackburn semi final and didn't look that happy about itI remember looking at that from Witton Lane lower near the Holte End. He actually slipped and fell over as he always did but still there was enough contact with the ball to go in.
Post by: LeeB on April 02, 2023, 05:23:56 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/0c29hFB/BAVq7-SLCQAAmo-Fa.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0c29hFB)
Post by: eamonn on April 02, 2023, 05:49:21 PM
It feels a bit sad that 15 is enough to nake the list. Hopefully that's going to change soon.
It is a bit embarassing, alright. But also speaks to how frequently players change clubs nowadays as much as how successful you are. Although they are inter-related - you're more likely to stay longer at a top team as there's only a handful of clubs where you may win and earn more.
Post by: ez on April 02, 2023, 06:26:10 PM
Post by: olaftab on April 03, 2023, 01:44:39 PM
Post by: SaddVillan on April 03, 2023, 05:23:19 PM
How Unai Emery has made Ollie Watkins into an Aston Vills record breaker.
It was early into Unai Emery’s time at Aston Villa when the Spaniard told Ollie Watkins exactly what he had planned. The future will be bright for Watkins, Emery said, if he listened carefully to specific instructions.
He warned the rewards might not be instant, but they would come. Watkins scored in his second game under Emery against Manchester United in a move specifically highlighted in training.
Fast forward five months and the transformation is clear to see. Watkins, who scored two goals in 14 games before Emery replaced Steven Gerrard in November, now has nine goals in the 16 games that have followed with Villa picking up more points than 17 other sides in the Premier League during that period.
In his time of need — when the shots were off target — the manager came to his rescue and mapped out a plan that has made him one of the hottest strikers in the division.
At times, the instructions have felt tedious and the video sessions long. Emery likes to debrief games in full with his team and highlight strengths and weaknesses in their performances. If time allows, he then does follow-up work with individuals. Watkins, 27, has been given a variety of tips including where to stand, when to run and even how to shape his body when receiving the ball.
But for the second weekend this season, Watkins sent records at Villa tumbling.
In February, he became their first player to score in five consecutive games in the Premier League and on Saturday in the 2-0 win away to Chelsea, he followed suit by scoring in his fifth away game in a row. The last player to get close was Dwight Yorke and he only managed four.
“It feels nice but I don’t want to stop here,” Watkins told The Athletic as he received a pat on the back from team-mate Leon Bailey.
“I want to score every week. I want to get to 20 goals and then more. I know I can be more clinical.”
There is confidence in his play now, highlighted in the victory that has got Villa dreaming of Europe. Watkins had screwed a chance wide but bounced back to open the scoring soon after.
Emery had told him the plan to work on ways of exposing Chelsea’s back five.
“I was trying to time my runs so that I stayed central on (Kalidou) Koulibaly,” he said. “We worked on it in the week and I was just waiting for that moment. When the ball came through and I saw Kepa (Arrizabalaga) off his line, I knew exactly what to do.”
Watkins has stepped up his game to such a level that he is entering into the conversation along some of Villa’s Premier League greats.
There are plenty to contend with: Yorke and Christian Benteke who still have the edge, then John Carew, Dion Dublin and Gabby Agbonlahor, the latter who holds the record for the most amount of Premier league goals scored by any Villa player (74). Watkins has 35, joint-ninth with Darius Vassell.
His team-mates are enjoying his success and making sure they do everything to assist.
Emi Buendia spoke up before the game to alert Watkins of his record-breaking opportunity and offer motivating words of encouragement.
Emery fixed much of Villa’s attacking plan around him. The manager is always keen to point out that Villa must “defend brilliantly” to win but if all goes to plan, the man in the most advanced position, and top of the Villa goalscoring charts on 10 goals, will get plenty of chances.
Perhaps it was the early success that helped Watkins trust Emery and his coaching team to fix the broken part of his game. One of the scenarios was to be ready to pounce onto a through-ball when Villa turn over possession against opponents playing with a high line.
In only Emery’s second game in charge, this played out. Watkins lurked on the shoulder of Harry Maguire away to Manchester United in the Carabao Cup and punished the centre-half by peeling away to latch onto a Jacob Ramsey pass and coolly finish in a game Villa would eventually lose 4-2, but the start of a new way of working was there.
I’m still not content with where I am at, I want more,” he said at Stamford Bridge. “We’ve got a real understanding as a team now. The fans should be excited because we definitely are.
“There’s a confidence that we can see games out now whereas at the start of the season we might have conceded. I want to score 20 goals and I want to get into Europe. I want to be playing every Thursday next season.”
For that to happen, Villa need to keep winning, starting with games away to Leicester City tomorrow and then Nottingham Forest on Saturday. Villa then have a difficult run of games, but they are also opportunities to take points off those above them and close the gap on the top seven after forcing their way into the top half for the first time under Emery.
With Watkins’ goals, it is starting to feel like a European finish is a genuine possibility. He is a big-game player, having scored 15 goals against Arsenal, Manchester City, Manchester United, Liverpool, Tottenham Hotspur and Chelsea.
Watkins stands as one of only three players to have hit double figures for goals in each of the last three Premier League seasons. The other two are Harry Kane and Mohamed Salah — that is the kind of company he is keeping.
In the weeks ahead we will find out whether Watkins can fire Villa into Europe.
Post by: villadelph on April 03, 2023, 06:14:29 PM
Most important bit, "I've got a clear understanding of how he wants to play, and what to do in certain situations."
Post by: Smirker on April 03, 2023, 06:22:42 PM
Even if I have doubts over him long term because of his finishing, I have a lot of time for him because he is such a pro.
Keep it up Ollie.
Post by: mrfuse on April 04, 2023, 01:28:32 PM
Only nine players in the competitions history have scored more goals than Watkins for Aston Villa.
Take a look at how many goals each of those players scored in their first 100 Premier League games for the club.
(https://i.ibb.co/1vwWTtt/Ollie.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1vwWTtt)
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 04, 2023, 01:50:33 PM
Post by: Drummond on April 04, 2023, 02:06:06 PM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on April 04, 2023, 03:15:31 PM
Post by: Drummond on April 04, 2023, 03:27:09 PM
Watched on twitter earlier a vid of the build up to his goal. Luiz's contribution can not be underestimated the way he makes space in his own half to get past his man and then hit's the ball in the direction of Watkins Kookaburra gets a special mention too.Luiz is getting better and better at that. He just seems to turn and drift past his man more and more and thus creates a lot of space.
Post by: aldridgeboy on April 04, 2023, 03:30:50 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 04, 2023, 08:20:11 PM
Post by: Olof's Beard on April 05, 2023, 12:18:13 AM
Post by: LeeB on April 05, 2023, 12:38:51 AM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on April 05, 2023, 12:40:35 AM
Post by: Matt C on April 05, 2023, 01:42:43 AM
Post by: Risso on April 05, 2023, 07:01:30 AM
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 05, 2023, 07:09:58 AM
Did the ref send him off as well before checking VAR?
From the highlights I’ve seen it’s not possible to tell what colour the card was. But the reaction immediately from Ollie and Mings suggested it was red. I get refs make mistakes due to their vantage point and that’s what VAR helps clean up. But that was a terrible series of decisions from the ref and assistants thankfully corrected.
Post by: Risso on April 05, 2023, 07:15:06 AM
Did the ref send him off as well before checking VAR?
From the highlights I’ve seen it’s not possible to tell what colour the card was. But the reaction immediately from Ollie and Mings suggested it was red. I get refs make mistakes due to their vantage point and that’s what VAR helps clean up. But that was a terrible series of decisions from the ref and assistants thankfully corrected.
It must have been a red then, otherwise he’d still have a yellow, as they don’t get overturned by VAR.
Post by: Olof's Beard on April 05, 2023, 08:00:21 AM
Post by: stevo_st on April 05, 2023, 08:01:32 AM
Pretty sure I’ve seen that happen before.
It’s just yellow cards themselves can’t be reviewed it it’s for a players first booking
Post by: Villan82 on April 05, 2023, 08:08:22 AM
For me, he's become a proper Aston Villa main man
Post by: Risso on April 05, 2023, 08:08:53 AM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 05, 2023, 08:11:36 AM
The ref cancelled the yellow after making the little box sign thing, he had the card in his hand. I think they can cancel a booking if the foul that triggered it is cancelled. It was brilliant determination from Ollie to protect the lead.
He was onto that ball like a young Mick Quinn when the ball broke free. Love to see it.
Post by: Deano's Mullet on April 05, 2023, 08:27:05 AM
Post by: Nunkin1965 on April 05, 2023, 08:35:07 AM
Absolutely brilliant.
Post by: brontebilly on April 05, 2023, 08:53:05 AM
Post by: darren woolley on April 05, 2023, 09:17:26 AM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on April 05, 2023, 09:56:28 AM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 05, 2023, 10:04:48 AM
Post by: Risso on April 05, 2023, 10:07:01 AM
I thought it was not totally dissimilar to his one at Man City.
I think the one last night was slightly better as he had quite a tussle with two defenders, and still got his shot away and on target. It was a superb goal.
Post by: Rigadon on April 05, 2023, 10:46:41 AM
Post by: danno on April 05, 2023, 10:52:39 AM
His run of form has coincided with the wider team. He’s always been a handful, but seems to have added clinical finishing to his game in a way I didn’t think he could. Dominant, brilliant centre forward play the last few months. Brilliant stuff.
In this form he’s exactly the type of striker Leicester have needed since Vardy lost a yard. Something I hope all Villa fans are pointing out with glee to their crisp munching colleagues in warehouses across the Midlands.
Post by: dave shelley on April 05, 2023, 10:56:39 AM
Post by: Risso on April 05, 2023, 11:00:56 AM
Post by: danno on April 05, 2023, 11:03:26 AM
Vardy's gone on a year too long. He's been a great player in his day and he absolutely terrorised us our first year back in the Premier League, but he's a shadow of that player now. Their back ups in Iheanacho and Daka are nowhere near as good as Vardy was.
I thought similar last season, on paper his goal record that year was still ok. But when I looked a bit closer alot of his goals were penalties.
My mistake! 20/21. 34 apps 15 goals in prem. 8 penalties
Post by: OCD on April 05, 2023, 11:51:09 AM
Post by: LeeB on April 05, 2023, 11:53:29 AM
I'm surprised Ihaenacho didn't get a look in given the trouble he gave us in the reverse fixture.
Me too, the fucker always scores against us and pretty much nobody else
Post by: Risso on April 05, 2023, 12:01:24 PM
I'm surprised Ihaenacho didn't get a look in given the trouble he gave us in the reverse fixture.
Me too, the fucker always scores against us and pretty much nobody else
My mate Lewis (who you met) is mates with Iheanacho, and is going over to his brother's wedding in Nigeria in the summer. Getting flown over there in the private jet they're all going in. All because he fitted a garage door for Iheanacho and got talking to him about Leicester.
Post by: eamonn on April 05, 2023, 12:01:42 PM
Post by: VILLA MOLE on April 05, 2023, 12:02:34 PM
I'm surprised Ihaenacho didn't get a look in given the trouble he gave us in the reverse fixture.
Me too, the fucker always scores against us and pretty much nobody else
My mate Lewis (who you met) is mates with Iheanacho, and is going over to his brother's wedding in Nigeria in the summer. Getting flown over there in the private jet they're all going in. All because he fitted a garage door for Iheanacho and got talking to him about Leicester.
I could that , well maybe not the garage bit
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 05, 2023, 12:37:38 PM
Ollie's finish was something else last night. A really difficult shot to pull-off giving the advancing defenders/goalie and the angle.
It was. On two occasions before his goal I was calling him a "f**king donkey" for his complete lack of basic control. It's so frustrating. I've now come to the conclusion with Watkins you have to take the rough with the smooth. His speed, strength and goals are too important for us right now.
Post by: LeeB on April 05, 2023, 01:05:02 PM
Ollie's finish was something else last night. A really difficult shot to pull-off giving the advancing defenders/goalie and the angle.
It was. On two occasions before his goal I was calling him a "f**king donkey" for his complete lack of basic control. It's so frustrating. I've now come to the conclusion with Watkins you have to take the rough with the smooth. His speed, strength and goals are too important for us right now.
Honestly mate, where are you seeing this 'lack of control'? He looks like he's made of velcro since Unai arrived, that first touch for his goal was sensational.
Post by: Risso on April 05, 2023, 01:15:38 PM
Ollie's finish was something else last night. A really difficult shot to pull-off giving the advancing defenders/goalie and the angle.
It was. On two occasions before his goal I was calling him a "f**king donkey" for his complete lack of basic control. It's so frustrating. I've now come to the conclusion with Watkins you have to take the rough with the smooth. His speed, strength and goals are too important for us right now.
Honestly mate, where are you seeing this 'lack of control'? He looks like he's made of velcro since Unai arrived, that first touch for his goal was sensational.
Yep, he's stopped wearing his star-shaped boots and brings the ball under control much more efficiently now. His remaining issue is shooting accuracy at times, eg against Chelsea and Bournemouth, but given the run he's on even mntioning that seems unnecessarily picky.
Post by: Monty on April 05, 2023, 01:18:55 PM
Post by: SamTheMouse on April 05, 2023, 01:22:16 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 05, 2023, 01:26:44 PM
Post by: Monty on April 05, 2023, 01:31:32 PM
He's clearly an intelligent lad, so you'd expect him to be one of those who'd benefit most from being given thoughtful instructions. Whatever Emery is telling him, he's obviously taking it on board.
What he said after the Chelsea game about how he and Emery had been working on off-the-ball runs at Koulibaly (and seeing it create two chances and a goal in the first half) was really something to hear. These guys are really operating on a different level.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 05, 2023, 01:37:57 PM
Ollie's finish was something else last night. A really difficult shot to pull-off giving the advancing defenders/goalie and the angle.
It was. On two occasions before his goal I was calling him a "f**king donkey" for his complete lack of basic control. It's so frustrating. I've now come to the conclusion with Watkins you have to take the rough with the smooth. His speed, strength and goals are too important for us right now.
Honestly mate, where are you seeing this 'lack of control'? He looks like he's made of velcro since Unai arrived, that first touch for his goal was sensational.
As I said Lee, twice before he scored so that would in the the first 20 minutes. Of course he rammed those words down my throat minutes later with a cracking goal. Whilst I wouldn't say Velcro, as Risso said his control has recently improved under Emery. Like so many of our players we're seeing improvements right across the board, some where we'd never had thought possible 4 months ago.
Post by: Dick Edwards on April 05, 2023, 01:45:09 PM
Vardy's gone on a year too long. He's been a great player in his day and he absolutely terrorised us our first year back in the Premier League, but he's a shadow of that player now.
He probably knows that himself but he's got a pretty hefty legal bill that needs funding on his wife's behalf ;)
Post by: Hookeysmith on April 05, 2023, 02:08:24 PM
Vardy's gone on a year too long. He's been a great player in his day and he absolutely terrorised us our first year back in the Premier League, but he's a shadow of that player now.
He probably knows that himself but he's got a pretty hefty legal bill that needs funding on his wife's behalf ;)
Fuck him the rat faced snarly twat
Post by: LeeB on April 05, 2023, 02:38:29 PM
He's clearly an intelligent lad, so you'd expect him to be one of those who'd benefit most from being given thoughtful instructions. Whatever Emery is telling him, he's obviously taking it on board.
What he said after the Chelsea game about how he and Emery had been working on off-the-ball runs at Koulibaly (and seeing it create two chances and a goal in the first half) was really something to hear. These guys are really operating on a different level.
I used to do similar with my team in the Sutton Sunday League Division 4:
"Look at that big fat bastard at centre half, when you get it run at him every time, he doesn't want it at all"
Two peas in a pod, me and the Maestro
Post by: Somniloquism on April 05, 2023, 02:51:51 PM
Post by: LeeB on April 05, 2023, 02:54:11 PM
Yes, with some of those changing rooms, you could hear the opposition manager very clearly from the other side. So did you used to wear the number 4 or the number 5?
Cheeky fucker, players with my touch don't play centre half.
I was in goal.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 05, 2023, 03:12:23 PM
Post by: rob_bridge on April 05, 2023, 03:20:59 PM
Post by: Goldenballs on April 05, 2023, 03:25:13 PM
"Ollie Watkins boasts the best goals per game ratio of all players to have made 100 or more Premier League appearances for #AVFC."
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 05, 2023, 03:28:40 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 05, 2023, 03:30:37 PM
Post by: Risso on April 05, 2023, 03:31:02 PM
Benteke scored many more in many fewer, so, no.
I think the 100+ appearances bit is key there. Benteke didn't.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 05, 2023, 03:35:09 PM
Ollie Watkins will make his 100th Premier League appearance today against Leicester.
Only nine players in the competitions history have scored more goals than Watkins for Aston Villa.
Take a look at how many goals each of those players scored in their first 100 Premier League games for the club.
(https://i.ibb.co/1vwWTtt/Ollie.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1vwWTtt)
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 05, 2023, 03:38:20 PM
Benteke scored many more in many fewer, so, no.
I think the 100+ appearances bit is key there. Benteke didn't.
I know, but it is a bit shit if you can't include the bloke that's miles ahead of everyone else in number of goals scored because he was stoopid enuff to do it in fewer games.
Post by: Mellin on April 05, 2023, 03:40:09 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on April 05, 2023, 03:40:27 PM
But he didn't make 100 appearances. So it's a bit of a nonsense stat. He's still behind Carew, amongst others.
Level with Carew on that picture though with his goal last night and Big John only got one more after that so it would put him ahead depending on how many more games it took him to get the extra one.
Post by: Risso on April 05, 2023, 03:41:17 PM
Benteke scored many more in many fewer, so, no.
I think the 100+ appearances bit is key there. Benteke didn't.
I know, but it is a bit shit if you can't include the bloke that's miles ahead of everyone else in number of goals scored because he was stoopid enuff to do it in fewer games.
Oh I agree. I'm not sure where all this "100 games" stuff has come from to be honest.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 05, 2023, 03:44:56 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on April 05, 2023, 03:49:39 PM
Benteke scored many more in many fewer, so, no.
I think the 100+ appearances bit is key there. Benteke didn't.
I know, but it is a bit shit if you can't include the bloke that's miles ahead of everyone else in number of goals scored because he was stoopid enuff to do it in fewer games.
Oh I agree. I'm not sure where all this "100 games" stuff has come from to be honest.
Hmmm, I wonder who had their 100th PL game for Villa yesterday........
Post by: Goldenballs on April 05, 2023, 03:49:55 PM
Post by: Risso on April 05, 2023, 03:50:43 PM
Post by: LeeB on April 05, 2023, 03:54:42 PM
A new Benteke or Carew next to Watkins, in this team with Emery as manager would be a thing of majestic beauty. We'd probably have the title wrapped up by Christmas and we'd have to take the phone off the hook to stop Grealish's increasingly desperate calls to come home.
I reckon we're going to be next season's Napoli anyway, additional big hairy arsed but gifted centre forward or not.
Post by: Risso on April 05, 2023, 04:08:32 PM
A new Benteke or Carew next to Watkins, in this team with Emery as manager would be a thing of majestic beauty. We'd probably have the title wrapped up by Christmas and we'd have to take the phone off the hook to stop Grealish's increasingly desperate calls to come home.
I reckon we're going to be next season's Napoli anyway, additional big hairy arsed but gifted centre forward or not.
I'd love an away day at Napoli. Obviously there'd be a fair chance of not making it back alive, but still.
Post by: Richard E on April 05, 2023, 04:24:30 PM
A new Benteke or Carew next to Watkins, in this team with Emery as manager would be a thing of majestic beauty. We'd probably have the title wrapped up by Christmas and we'd have to take the phone off the hook to stop Grealish's increasingly desperate calls to come home.
Apart from the fact that knowing our luck said player would do their cruciate ligaments 3 minutes into the first game and be out for the season!
Post by: Smithy on April 05, 2023, 04:40:32 PM
Posted the other day. Miles ahead of BarryOllie Watkins will make his 100th Premier League appearance today against Leicester.
Only nine players in the competitions history have scored more goals than Watkins for Aston Villa.
Take a look at how many goals each of those players scored in their first 100 Premier League games for the club.
(https://i.ibb.co/1vwWTtt/Ollie.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1vwWTtt)
What's telling from that list is how few went on to get many more goals after their first 100 appearances. It's really only Gabby and Yorke who added a decent number AFTER their first 100 games. If Ollie stays fit, Unai still wants him, and we're competing in the top third of the table for the next few years as we all hope, I could see easily Ollie getting to Gabby's total by the end of 24/25 season. It's only 4 more this season, and 15 in each of the next two.
Post by: Risso on April 05, 2023, 04:44:35 PM
Post by: LeeB on April 05, 2023, 05:04:48 PM
Dion Dublin got 20% of his in his first 3 games!
Dublin was shit hot till he broke his neck, his record was 1 in 2 until then.
Post by: Somniloquism on April 05, 2023, 05:12:37 PM
What's telling from that list is how few went on to get many more goals after their first 100 appearances. It's really only Gabby and Yorke who added a decent number AFTER their first 100 games. If Ollie stays fit, Unai still wants him, and we're competing in the top third of the table for the next few years as we all hope, I could see easily Ollie getting to Gabby's total by the end of 24/25 season. It's only 4 more this season, and 15 in each of the next two.
TBF, not many of them had many more appearances after the 100. Both Carew and Saunders were just over 100 appearances in total for us. Yorke scored most of his goals in the last few seasons before he was sold as well. I was actually surprised how many Gabby scored after his 100, but you forget he had his prolific spell just at the start of his 100 appearances.
If Ollie does get double figures next season as well, he would be the first Villa player to score doubles in the four seasons in the PL and we would probably be going back quite a few years for that feat in our history I suspect.
Post by: rob_bridge on April 05, 2023, 07:58:41 PM
Benteke scored many more in many fewer, so, no.
He isn't as good as Benteke but he is better than most on that list. Not Yorke obviously.
Post by: Risso on April 06, 2023, 08:28:45 AM
Post by: Deano's Mullet on April 06, 2023, 08:38:15 AM
Post by: LukeJames on April 06, 2023, 08:39:28 AM
Dion Dublin got 20% of his in his first 3 games!Those 3 games managed to convince my young teenage brain that this was what Pele must have been like back in the day.
Post by: Steve67 on April 07, 2023, 11:47:32 PM
Post by: eamonn on April 08, 2023, 02:32:16 AM
Post by: Mister E on April 08, 2023, 09:06:28 AM
A new Benteke or Carew next to Watkins, in this team with Emery as manager would be a thing of majestic beauty. We'd probably have the title wrapped up by Christmas and we'd have to take the phone off the hook to stop Grealish's increasingly desperate calls to come home.Wesley's due back at the end of this season ...
Post by: algy on April 08, 2023, 09:16:21 AM
Emery might be a magician, but he's not fucking GandalfA new Benteke or Carew next to Watkins, in this team with Emery as manager would be a thing of majestic beauty. We'd probably have the title wrapped up by Christmas and we'd have to take the phone off the hook to stop Grealish's increasingly desperate calls to come home.Wesley's due back at the end of this season ...
Post by: Smithy on April 08, 2023, 09:20:51 AM
Joachim is a funny one on that list, I never think about him being as good as the other players or scoring that many goals.
He always felt like 3rd/4th choice forward, but in the days when we always had two up front, European campaigns, and reasonable cup runs, he always got to play a good few games each season. He was always behind the likes of Dwight, Savo, Collymore, Dion, JPA in any given season he was here, and eventually his "role" was taken over by Vassell I think?
But considering he was here for four years, and never became a proper first-choice, I think he did really well for us. I also have a soft spot for him because he scored two the day I took my younger brother to his first game in the Holte End. We won 4-1 against Derby, early in the 2000/01 season.
Post by: algy on April 08, 2023, 09:24:50 AM
Julian Joachim was, bizarrely, still playing non-league football up to the start of the pandemic. 28 year long career ...Joachim is a funny one on that list, I never think about him being as good as the other players or scoring that many goals.
He always felt like 3rd/4th choice forward, but in the days when we always had two up front, European campaigns, and reasonable cup runs, he always got to play a good few games each season. He was always behind the likes of Dwight, Savo, Collymore, Dion, JPA in any given season he was here, and eventually his "role" was taken over by Vassell I think?
But considering he was here for four years, and never became a proper first-choice, I think he did really well for us. I also have a soft spot for him because he scored two the day I took my younger brother to his first game in the Holte End. We won 4-1 against Derby, early in the 2000/01 season.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Joachim
Post by: Percy McCarthy on April 08, 2023, 09:33:44 AM
The ref cancelled the yellow after making the little box sign thing, he had the card in his hand. I think they can cancel a booking if the foul that triggered it is cancelled. It was brilliant determination from Ollie to protect the lead.
It was. The celebratory embrace between Mings and Ollie for the game-winning block was great to see as well.
Post by: eamonn on April 08, 2023, 10:52:32 AM
There was always a bit of inferiority complex towards him/from him - even the way we refer to him now, fans tend to forget him and how many goals he scored. Gregory even seemed to take the piss when Joachim handed in a transfer request shortly after the FA Cup final defeat in 2000. Ugo and Southgste also handed in requests that fortnight but it was Koachim who Gregory took to task publicly about having the cheek to ask for a higher salary. I guess for the two main defenders, it was more about wanting to play for a bigger team.
Joachim also had an ill-fated attempt around that time to play for St Vincent And Grenadines where he only found out he was ineligible having represented England at U21 level, after he had flown to the Caribbean.
He struck me as a confidence player who maybe was bullied a bit by Gregory. His pace and finishing at times was fantastic though and he clearly had plenty of talent as a kid. There's an amazing goal he scored for Leicester against Barnsley I think, in his teens before we bought him.
Vassell was in a smililar mould - tricky, speedy and occasionally looking world-beating but seeming to lack the confidence to take his game to the next level.
Post by: adrenachrome on April 08, 2023, 05:17:53 PM
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1644734411747778560
Post by: Monty on April 08, 2023, 05:19:12 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on April 08, 2023, 05:23:06 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 08, 2023, 05:24:06 PM
Did he get booked at the end for the celebration?
Yes
Post by: Somniloquism on April 08, 2023, 05:35:04 PM
Quote
Aston Villa striker Ollie Watkins on his goal, speaking to Sky Sports: "I think it shows that I've developed a lot, I've worked a lot on my finishing. I've worked hard for these moments. I don't think I'd do that finish at the start of the season or maybe last season, dinking the keeper. I'd maybe have tried to go low and it may get saved. I've worked a lot on a variety of finishes and I'm happy to be scoring.
On the impact Unai Emery has had: "I think telling me to be patient. We do a lot of debriefs after the game and he's very detailed. Just taking information in, working on the training pitch and being patient. I know my teammates are going to get the ball and look for me. It's about being in the right areas and doing my bit, which is about trying to score"
On Villa struggling in the first half: "It was frustrating. At times, [especially] the final ball, all of us were a little bit off it today. It was just little moments, it was about the composure in front of goal to pick a final pass or pass it in the goal. They're key moments so I'm happy I did that today. We got a massive three points in a big week."
On the confidence in the side: "The manager gives us confidence every game. He mentions that we've got to respect each team, it's the Premier League and isn't going to be easy, and fight for three points in every game. We'll continue to do that until the end of the season. There's a lot of good teams we've got to play. We're up for the challenge and it's going to be really exciting in these last eight games.
On Aston Villa keeping a clean sheet: "We're defending from the front, the midfielders are well-drilled, credit to the defenders because they're always having to sprint back. It's a solid team performance and I'm happy that Emi [Martinez] has got his clean sheet."
Very refreshing in his honesty on his previous finishing ability, and that the team didn't play well first half.
Post by: Eckybloke on April 08, 2023, 05:47:22 PM
Post by: nigel on April 08, 2023, 06:58:51 PM
Could he be the one to hit 20 in a season?
Post by: Smirker on April 08, 2023, 10:31:57 PM
101 apps, 49 goals
Ollie at Villa:
108 apps, 40 goals
Really isn't much in it based on numbers. Might surprise a few.
Post by: Scott Nielsen on April 09, 2023, 04:40:02 AM
Benteke at Villa:
101 apps, 49 goals
Ollie at Villa:
108 apps, 40 goals
Really isn't much in it based on numbers. Might surprise a few.
Pretty sure Benteke only did 89 appearances for us based on the table that was listed on here a few days ago.
Post by: Rory on April 09, 2023, 05:04:40 AM
Check the man into a sex addiction clinic cos he just can't. stop. scoring.
Nice.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 09, 2023, 08:45:25 AM
Benteke at Villa:
101 apps, 49 goals
Ollie at Villa:
108 apps, 40 goals
Really isn't much in it based on numbers. Might surprise a few.
Pretty sure Benteke only did 89 appearances for us based on the table that was listed on here a few days ago.
Those numbers include cup games.
Post by: darren woolley on April 09, 2023, 09:14:51 AM
Post by: Steve67 on April 09, 2023, 11:52:42 AM
Post by: Risso on April 09, 2023, 11:53:12 AM
Lovely goal all round with JJ looking up and picking Ollie out. Great first touch, wonderful dink over the keeper. Wonderful goal. I dare you not to pick him now Gareth Southgate.
“Challenge accepted!”
Post by: trinityoap on April 09, 2023, 11:59:19 AM
Post by: Dave on April 09, 2023, 12:00:39 PM
I suppose Southgate was there to watch Johnson.
Welsh international Brennan Johnson?
Post by: Risso on April 09, 2023, 12:01:38 PM
I suppose Southgate was there to watch Johnson.
Welsh international Brennan Johnson?
Probably!
Post by: LeeB on April 09, 2023, 12:03:41 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 09, 2023, 12:10:24 PM
Post by: eamonn on April 09, 2023, 12:32:27 PM
Probably there for Shelvey, the twat.
To have afternoon tea with Purslow and Windsor.
Post by: Dave on April 09, 2023, 01:01:08 PM
Ollie has only had a decent claim to being picked for England once this season, and that was the last 2 games. The bloke picked instead of him has scored more goals this season so it was hardly a shocker of a decision.
Yup. Until Emery arrived the broad opinion on here was that he should be shipped out in the summer because he wasn't good enough, following a bit of a lukewarm season in 21/22 (during which he was still getting picked for England). There wasn't really any reason to pick him for most of the last year or so.
If he keeps up this form until the end of the season he's a shoe-in for the next squad.
Post by: not3bad on April 09, 2023, 05:36:20 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on April 09, 2023, 05:42:34 PM
I suppose Southgate was there to watch Johnson.
Nope, more then likely he was there to angle for the knighthood. Hopefully Willy told the hossface to fuck off.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 09, 2023, 06:05:57 PM
I was just thinking, given Watkins' hit rate since Emery came on board can we extrapolate what his tally might be for a season (on this form)? It's been done with premier league points.
22 I think, based on 10 goals in the 17 league games Emery has been here. I think Ollie missed one of those games.
Post by: Villa in Denmark on April 09, 2023, 06:30:38 PM
Didn't he miss the Brighton game when Ings scored in his place?I was just thinking, given Watkins' hit rate since Emery came on board can we extrapolate what his tally might be for a season (on this form)? It's been done with premier league points.
22 I think, based on 10 goals in the 17 league games Emery has been here. I think Ollie missed one of those games.
Post by: OCD on April 10, 2023, 11:34:43 AM
Post by: eamonn on April 10, 2023, 03:49:08 PM
Post by: john e on April 11, 2023, 09:52:07 AM
I was one of his main critics on here saying he runs around a lot, but this was when he just ran around a lot and didn’t score many goals.
Emery has changed all that he runs around a bit less now especially in areas of no consequence but is getting goals and lots of them
The other thing was when he scored the goal away at Leicester He had defenders both sides of him and managed to slot the ball away
Now in the past he would have been nudged off the ball through not being strong enough, but not this time it’s actually my favourite goal of his so far because he basically kept his head and outmuscled the two defenders and goalkeeper to score a great goal,
there have been times in the past when I wouldn’t have believed he could have done that, so fair play to him I love it when I’m proved wrong in these situations
Now I know he’s always been a fit lad but my Son noticed when he took his shirt off against Forest that he was absolutely ripped He reckons he’s been working out and got loads more muscles and physical strength
So I’m just thinking, maybe that has something to do with not being so easily knocked off the ball anymore
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 11, 2023, 01:04:19 PM
Yeah, but no one except Haaland can maintain that rate. Watkins is in a purple patch. He'll get back in his (six yard) box soon. If he's at 1 in 2 come December, we should all be happy.
I don't see why it has to be a purple patch, if he's getting the service you've got to fancy him to put them away.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 11, 2023, 01:10:54 PM
Because even the best strikers in the world would struggle to keep up with his current strike rate. Don't forget, the likes of Haaland probably get 4 or 5 times more chances than Watkins does at Villa.Yeah, but no one except Haaland can maintain that rate. Watkins is in a purple patch. He'll get back in his (six yard) box soon. If he's at 1 in 2 come December, we should all be happy.
I don't see why it has to be a purple patch, if he's getting the service you've got to fancy him to put them away.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 11, 2023, 01:21:22 PM
The other thing was when he scored the goal away at Leicester He had defenders both sides of him and managed to slot the ball away
Now in the past he would have been nudged off the ball through not being strong enough, but not this time it’s actually my favourite goal of his so far because he basically kept his head and outmuscled the two defenders and goalkeeper to score a great goal,
there have been times in the past when I wouldn’t have believed he could have done that, so fair play to him I love it when I’m proved wrong in these situations
My favourite was on Saturday, Watkins demonstrated a level of skill and technique I never thought he had. Last season or the first half of this season I'd have expected the ball to bounce off his leg and end up down the tunnel. If Haaland had scored that goal the media would have been gushing for weeks. Right now the only thing missing from his game is a cooler head, the confidence to look up and play somebody else in rather than shooting on sight when the angle is impossible. He actually did that on Saturday too, sliding the ball to Ramsey when a shot in a crowded box was on.
Credit to him and the coaching team. He's unrecognisable in such a short amount of time. Hopefully he can finish the season strongly and we can really cash in.. or not. ;)
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 11, 2023, 01:32:49 PM
Post by: hipkiss92 on April 11, 2023, 02:54:57 PM
The other thing was when he scored the goal away at Leicester He had defenders both sides of him and managed to slot the ball away
Now in the past he would have been nudged off the ball through not being strong enough, but not this time it’s actually my favourite goal of his so far because he basically kept his head and outmuscled the two defenders and goalkeeper to score a great goal,
there have been times in the past when I wouldn’t have believed he could have done that, so fair play to him I love it when I’m proved wrong in these situations
My favourite was on Saturday, Watkins demonstrated a level of skill and technique I never thought he had. Last season or the first half of this season I'd have expected the ball to bounce off his leg and end up down the tunnel. If Haaland had scored that goal the media would have been gushing for weeks. Right now the only thing missing from his game is a cooler head, the confidence to look up and play somebody else in rather than shooting on sight when the angle is impossible. He actually did that on Saturday too, sliding the ball to Ramsey when a shot in a crowded box was on.
Credit to him and the coaching team. He's unrecognisable in such a short amount of time. Hopefully he can finish the season strongly and we can really cash in.. or not. ;)
I've only had one look at Match of the Day, but his shot in the first half when the ball bounced to him from their defender clearing it is potentially a good example of that. Keen to shoot early on his right foot, when cutting in onto his left or playing someone in might have been better.
From the Holte, I did think he should have shot earlier though when he got in the penalty box before passing to Ramsey, so what do I know.
Post by: PaulTheVillan on April 12, 2023, 11:07:59 AM
Post by: brontebilly on April 12, 2023, 03:53:35 PM
Post by: LeeB on April 12, 2023, 05:15:36 PM
Post by: RamboandBruno on April 12, 2023, 05:16:40 PM
Post by: Dante Lavelli on April 12, 2023, 06:38:53 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 12, 2023, 06:56:37 PM
Post by: eamonn on April 12, 2023, 07:08:59 PM
Post by: rooboy316 on April 13, 2023, 09:26:33 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 13, 2023, 09:27:57 AM
Confidence plays such a big role in his finishing. In the leaner patches, he would seem a lot more desperate for goals… snatch at shots, try things that weren’t there. Even his technique would betray urgency. Now he’s bagged a few, there’s a calm assuredness about his finishing.except when there is not.
Like the wild swing in front of the North Stand when through on goal.
Post by: bob on April 13, 2023, 12:48:31 PM
Post by: brontebilly on April 13, 2023, 01:22:38 PM
Confidence plays such a big role in his finishing. In the leaner patches, he would seem a lot more desperate for goals… snatch at shots, try things that weren’t there. Even his technique would betray urgency. Now he’s bagged a few, there’s a calm assuredness about his finishing.
It's improved for sure but I don't think he will ever be elite when it comes to finishing. All the top forwards miss sitters but even at that his miss against was it Palace? was scarcely believable. The little dink finish the last day was great but I think he also needs to get more comfortable going around the keeper Dwight Yorke style.
Post by: Ian. on April 15, 2023, 03:19:04 PM
Post by: Keeno on April 15, 2023, 03:27:56 PM
Post by: Dave on April 15, 2023, 03:32:53 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 15, 2023, 03:34:34 PM
And since the World Cup he's scored the same number of league goals as Haaland. Although that could change later today it's still a stunning record.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 15, 2023, 03:36:14 PM
Can't be many games he's played for us where he's scored more than once? Liverpool, today...?
Arsenal away, 3-0 win.
Post by: OCD on April 15, 2023, 03:39:33 PM
Post by: Dave on April 15, 2023, 03:42:33 PM
Can't be many games he's played for us where he's scored more than once? Liverpool, today...?
Arsenal away, 3-0 win.
Ah yes.
Argument could be made that those three are our three best performances since promotion.
Post by: Olof's Beard on April 15, 2023, 03:44:08 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 15, 2023, 03:45:25 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 15, 2023, 03:55:09 PM
Less than 180 minutes per goal this season now. Equal with his previous best for us and top 10 for both goals and assists. All credit to him and the manager is a genius.
When you consider he'd scored two goals in 14 games before the arrival of Emery, that's some serious transformation. As you say, both deserve enormous credit.
Post by: Goldie.7 on April 15, 2023, 03:59:30 PM
Post by: Neil Hawkes on April 15, 2023, 04:02:55 PM
How wrong I was, could have had 6 goals today, but for the post, two great saves and a very close offside.
AND - apart from the goals, he was giving assists for everyone else.
What a transformation and a brilliant performance - has now surpassed Haaland, Kane and Rashford, over the same number of recent games - WOW.
Post by: supertom on April 15, 2023, 04:03:17 PM
Post by: villadelph on April 15, 2023, 04:29:34 PM
Post by: OCD on April 15, 2023, 05:31:55 PM
Post by: levico on April 15, 2023, 07:04:26 PM
Post by: Risso on April 15, 2023, 07:20:13 PM
I’ve spent a very pleasant hour reading posts on the NUFC fans forum (highly recommended). One thing stands out - their respect for Ollie including a number of calls for them to sign him - some chance!
Deluded twats.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 15, 2023, 07:31:58 PM
I’ve spent a very pleasant hour reading posts on the NUFC fans forum (highly recommended). One thing stands out - their respect for Ollie including a number of calls for them to sign him - some chance!
Deluded twats.
e.g. "We’ll have to get used to lesser teams treating us like their cup final." ::)
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 15, 2023, 07:36:41 PM
I’ve spent a very pleasant hour reading posts on the NUFC fans forum (highly recommended). One thing stands out - their respect for Ollie including a number of calls for them to sign him - some chance!
I gave up after 2 pages, that grey text on black with big spaces for their avatars is hideous.
Post by: Somniloquism on April 15, 2023, 07:41:06 PM
Post by: LukeJames on April 15, 2023, 07:51:14 PM
I’ve spent a very pleasant hour reading posts on the NUFC fans forum (highly recommended). One thing stands out - their respect for Ollie including a number of calls for them to sign him - some chance!They're not saying they should sign him, they're saying they should take him from us. Deluded fuckwits. Apart from Nolberto Solano feeling 'homesick' when have a club like Newcastle ever taken a player from us that we haven't wanted to shift on? Deluded fuckwits.
Post by: Keeno on April 15, 2023, 07:52:22 PM
Can we get this man a proper song?
I'd say this is *literally* the only bad thing Ollie-related at the minute. We should absolutely sub his name in for Bailey in the 'We've got super Unai Emery' tune.
Post by: rougegorge on April 15, 2023, 08:26:48 PM
Just compare the current posts to many of the comments on here before Emery started (e.g. p140 to 150).
Post by: Goldenballs on April 15, 2023, 08:32:36 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 15, 2023, 08:46:57 PM
Post by: Goldie.7 on April 16, 2023, 07:45:19 AM
I’ve spent a very pleasant hour reading posts on the NUFC fans forum (highly recommended). One thing stands out - their respect for Ollie including a number of calls for them to sign him - some chance!
Deluded twats.
Bit harsh. If they get chumps league footy I wouldn't rule out anything with their vast wealth. Barcodes will be the next elite super club whether we like it or not.
Post by: N'ZMAV on April 16, 2023, 07:47:59 AM
Post by: Astnor on April 16, 2023, 08:21:20 AM
Post by: pablo_picasso on April 16, 2023, 11:21:49 AM
Some of Ollie s comments after the game in post match interview: "(Villa Park) is a tough place to come (for other teams)" and "we are looking forward to the next games ..". That the spirit under Emery as it should be.
This was the bit I loved. They are really enjoying their football at the moment & really want to play again...
Post by: darren woolley on April 16, 2023, 01:00:42 PM
Post by: Chris_Jephcott on April 16, 2023, 04:56:38 PM
There are words that describe those publications…
Post by: DrGonzo on April 16, 2023, 09:15:29 PM
Well played Ollie, again.
Post by: astonvilla82 on April 16, 2023, 11:18:13 PM
the good thing about these super-elite clubs, is the promise-land only has 4 spaces - we're already seeing meltdowns at the likes of Chelsea and soon to be Liverpool - it's fantastic.especially when one team has spent 500 million pounds,is it
Post by: Drummond on April 17, 2023, 01:03:05 PM
I’ve spent a very pleasant hour reading posts on the NUFC fans forum (highly recommended). One thing stands out - their respect for Ollie including a number of calls for them to sign him - some chance!
Deluded twats.
Bit harsh. If they get chumps league footy I wouldn't rule out anything with their vast wealth. Barcodes will be the next elite super club whether we like it or not.
Watkins is in negotiations for a new deal with us. He's going nowhere.
Post by: darren woolley on April 17, 2023, 02:37:50 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on April 17, 2023, 02:52:08 PM
Right now he looks excellent. He always looks like he's going to control the ball and get a shot off. He looks strong, clever and deadly. Against Newcastle he was utterly unplayable. I don't think I've seen such a dominant performance from a striker since Benteke. My favourite moment wasn't a goal, but the assist for Ramsey's goal. It was an incredible header and hopefully, there will be an iconic photo of it somewhere.
So well done Ollie. In a few months he's gone from a frustration to surely one of the most sought after strikers in the PL.
I'm not into humble pie, but I take my hat off to him.
Post by: Drummond on April 17, 2023, 04:16:58 PM
Post by: Risso on April 17, 2023, 04:23:32 PM
I think Watkins has always shown he can, and is willing to, learn. Now he's got next-level coaches working with him, he's getting better and better.
His effort and dedication was never in doubt, but there was no sign that his first touch or ability to get a shot off efficiently was ever going to improve. Until it did, and then some. I do wonder now if it's because he was expending too much energy trying to do too much, and running the channels etc. You probably know like I do that when you're at the end of a game of 5 aside, when you're breathing out your arse, everything seems more difficult then at the start. Obviously it's very different for a supreme athlete like Ollie, but the theory is the same. Conserving his energy for the times that matter might mean he finds it easier to control and shoot.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 17, 2023, 04:24:41 PM
Against Newcastle he was utterly unplayable. I don't think I've seen such a dominant performance from a striker since Benteke. My favourite moment wasn't a goal, but the assist for Ramsey's goal. It was an incredible header and hopefully, there will be an iconic photo of it somewhere.
My favourite moment too. Somebody on here said he was pushed but now having watched it about 100 times he meant it. It was an amazing piece of football and Ramsey delivered the finish it deserved.
Post by: Drummond on April 17, 2023, 04:25:59 PM
I think Watkins has always shown he can, and is willing to, learn. Now he's got next-level coaches working with him, he's getting better and better.
His effort and dedication was never in doubt, but there was no sign that his first touch or ability to get a shot off efficiently was ever going to improve. Until it did, and then some. I do wonder now if it's because he was expending too much energy trying to do too much, and running the channels etc. You probably know like I do that when you're at the end of a game of 5 aside, when you're breathing out your arse, everything seems more difficult then at the start. Obviously it's very different for a supreme athlete like Ollie, but the theory is the same. Conserving his energy for the times that matter might mean he finds it easier to control and shoot.
Nah, I'm as unfit at the start as I am at the end! I have a burst at the start, conserve energy for 40 minutes and then have a purple patch at the end. Gut feeling is that the crowd would fucking hate me for most of the match but enjoy my contributions nonetheless.
But yes, I've not seen his running stats, but I wonder if he's covering a lot less ground now.
Post by: danno on April 17, 2023, 04:33:13 PM
That’s helped him finish chances that come his way, because he knows even if he drags one wide his teammates will fashion him another opportunity.
Before I think he would dwell on a miss, because under Gerrard it likely would prove costly.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 17, 2023, 04:37:10 PM
Post by: WassallVillain on April 17, 2023, 08:19:10 PM
Against Newcastle he was utterly unplayable. I don't think I've seen such a dominant performance from a striker since Benteke. My favourite moment wasn't a goal, but the assist for Ramsey's goal. It was an incredible header and hopefully, there will be an iconic photo of it somewhere.
My favourite moment too. Somebody on here said he was pushed but now having watched it about 100 times he meant it. It was an amazing piece of football and Ramsey delivered the finish it deserved.
I think if he hadn’t been pushed he was going for goal. He made a great adjustment and dropped it perfectly for Ramsey. Certain pen if no goal resulted I think.
Post by: john e on April 18, 2023, 03:59:20 PM
My Wife used to work with a lady who was married to a professional goalkeeping coach.
although he moved around a bit he was from the midlands and knew a few people at the Villa.
Anyway about a year or so ago when she found out my wife’s family were all Villa she said she would try and get us some signed memorabilia from one of the players and we all got a bit excited
she was good to her word and kindly handed over a Aston Villa shirt personally signed by Ollie Watkins
being honest and I’m not going to lie we were all a bit disappointed as Watkins at the time was running around a lot but not scoring much and we thought we needed an upgrade in that area
So the shirt got shoved in the bottom drawer of the wardrobe and forgot about
Anyway, as we all know Ollie has become one of the most feared strikers in Europe and is the goalscoring King of Villa Park right now
so at the weekend we fished the said shirt out of hiding, bought a brand-new shirt frame, and now takes pride of place on one of our walls
And people call us fickle
Post by: Brend'Watkins on April 18, 2023, 04:37:26 PM
He's still shooting too often straight at the keeper for my liking but right now I'll let him off.
Agree with that, apart from when he hits the occasional shot Against the post. He takes chances quickly now and if there’s enough power on them it’s hard for a keeper to react especially if it nicks off a defender.
Post by: Smirker on April 18, 2023, 05:00:53 PM
Interesting.
Post by: LeeB on April 18, 2023, 05:08:09 PM
I am seeing Arsenal fans online talking about wanting to sign him.
Interesting.
Arsenal fans are rarely interesting.
Post by: danno on April 18, 2023, 05:20:59 PM
I think Watkins has always shown he can, and is willing to, learn. Now he's got next-level coaches working with him, he's getting better and better.
Decent article on him here specifically mentioning his desire to improve:
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11096/12823390/ollie-watkins-record-breaking-goalscoring-form-at-aston-villa-analysed-with-finishing-coach-scott-chickelday
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on April 19, 2023, 08:56:15 AM
Post by: WarszaVillan on April 19, 2023, 08:59:20 AM
Post by: AV82EC on April 19, 2023, 09:07:21 AM
Didn't Delfouneso score for Villa against Blackpool, when they were in the Premier League?
Yep.
Post by: frank black on April 19, 2023, 10:15:48 AM
Post by: Dick Edwards on April 19, 2023, 10:15:52 AM
I am seeing Arsenal fans online talking about wanting to sign him.
Interesting.
If he maintains his current form there will be bigger fish than Arsenal wanting to sign him.
Post by: OCD on April 19, 2023, 10:58:05 AM
Post by: john e on April 19, 2023, 12:03:41 PM
I've seen reports saying he's in the final stages of negotiating a new deal. We're meant to be offering Ashley Young another year too.
I’d give Ashley a 5 year deal as he’s obviously been swimming in that pool that makes you younger I seed in a film one time
Post by: danno on April 19, 2023, 12:10:51 PM
I've seen reports saying he's in the final stages of negotiating a new deal. We're meant to be offering Ashley Young another year too.
I’d give Ashley a 5 year deal as he’s obviously been swimming in that pool that makes you younger I seed in a film one time
Fountain of Destiny, in Golden voyage of Sinbad 1974.
Post by: Rigadon on April 19, 2023, 12:49:48 PM
Post by: dave shelley on April 19, 2023, 12:56:18 PM
Post by: frank black on April 19, 2023, 01:12:47 PM
In days gone by, as soon as Villa were getting close to challenging the 'top four', one of those clubs would leak an interest in one of better players. I wonder if this time it'll be Watkins, despite the new contract.
Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham (assumed Kane is leaving) will no doubt all be linked.
Post by: pablo_picasso on April 19, 2023, 01:17:35 PM
In days gone by, as soon as Villa were getting close to challenging the 'top four', one of those clubs would leak an interest in one of better players. I wonder if this time it'll be Watkins, despite the new contract.
It will be whoever is in form. Its like clockwork.
Post by: Drummond on April 19, 2023, 01:22:54 PM
The other thing is that we're strong all over the pitch, with a great manager; if he decides he can let someone go, then we'll get great money and I trust him to do a great job in replacing them.
Post by: Dick Edwards on April 19, 2023, 01:32:52 PM
In days gone by, as soon as Villa were getting close to challenging the 'top four', one of those clubs would leak an interest in one of better players. I wonder if this time it'll be Watkins, despite the new contract.
Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham (assumed Kane is leaving) will no doubt all be linked.
And if Kane moves abroad you can add Manchester United to that list.
Post by: Hookeysmith on April 19, 2023, 01:36:15 PM
He must go into every game now thinking he is going to score as confidence should be mile high.
Hope they announce a new deal pretty soon
Post by: john e on April 19, 2023, 05:55:01 PM
no matter what we think of him now he was the best player we’ve seen for nearly a generation
The owners don’t sell cheap Grealish would not have been sold if the buy out figure hadn’t been met in full, they tried their best to keep him, but couldn’t do anything about it in the end
apart from Martinez I don’t think any player we have now is irreplaceable
I don’t want to sell our best players but say Watkins went he’d fetch 60-70m McGinn 50m same story for some of the others,
this money would be put straight back into the ‘war chest’ add our own funds to it and we could go out and buy anyone who would realistically come
so I’m not that worried to be honest
the 2 most important keeps for me are Martinez and Uni himself
Post by: frank black on April 19, 2023, 07:33:31 PM
Post by: Clampy on April 19, 2023, 08:11:34 PM
Post by: Rigadon on April 19, 2023, 08:15:24 PM
Grealish ripped the heart out of the club for a time when he left he was irreplaceable,
no matter what we think of him now he was the best player we’ve seen for nearly a generation
The owners don’t sell cheap Grealish would not have been sold if the buy out figure hadn’t been met in full, they tried their best to keep him, but couldn’t do anything about it in the end
apart from Martinez I don’t think any player we have now is irreplaceable
I don’t want to sell our best players but say Watkins went he’d fetch 60-70m McGinn 50m same story for some of the others,
this money would be put straight back into the ‘war chest’ add our own funds to it and we could go out and buy anyone who would realistically come
so I’m not that worried to be honest
the 2 most important keeps for me are Martinez and Uni himself
Yep. Weirdly, I'm not worried either!
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 19, 2023, 08:35:11 PM
Hope this doesn't affect his focus for the 2 big games this week (although understandable if it did a little bit).
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 20, 2023, 05:18:24 PM
Anyway, in other Ollie news. https://twitter.com/AVFC_espanol/status/1648769464236666880
Hope this doesn't affect his focus for the 2 big games this week (although understandable if it did a little bit).
A little bit? We all know what happened when his first child was born, he was never the same player until Emery arrived. That's it, season over! ;)
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 20, 2023, 06:49:02 PM
Anyway, in other Ollie news. https://twitter.com/AVFC_espanol/status/1648769464236666880
Hope this doesn't affect his focus for the 2 big games this week (although understandable if it did a little bit).
He spawns when he wants
He spawns when he wants
Ollie Watkins
He spawns when he wants
Post by: Villa Lew on April 22, 2023, 10:14:24 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11999721/Aston-Villas-Ollie-Watkins-taken-game-level-thanks-Unai-Emery.html
Post by: algy on April 22, 2023, 10:50:20 AM
It's from the Daily Mail, so I do apologise in advance for any distress this may cause, but it is a good article on Ollie.One thing I've liked about the Villa from the Smith era, and on in to Emery (we'll forget about the short interlude between those...) is how much I genuinely like the players we have. Tyrone Mings, John McGinn, Ollie Watkins, ... all seem really nice, well-rounded people. Emi Martinez seems like a lunatic, but I always think you want your goalkeeper to be a bit of a head case. They're the footballer equivalent of the drummer in a band.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11999721/Aston-Villas-Ollie-Watkins-taken-game-level-thanks-Unai-Emery.html
Post by: ROBBO on April 22, 2023, 10:52:43 AM
Post by: mrfuse on April 22, 2023, 11:01:07 AM
In saying that Ollie is the hardest to replace just because there just isint a large amount of strikers these days. Arsenal might be the team to come knocking, but I still think we have the power and current setup for even players like Ollie to possibly stay rather than join the team he supports.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on April 30, 2023, 09:12:11 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 30, 2023, 09:15:21 PM
He'll be back scoring next weekend I reckon.
Post by: Flin5tone on April 30, 2023, 09:56:33 PM
Post by: bob on April 30, 2023, 09:59:10 PM
It's from the Daily Mail, so I do apologise in advance for any distress this may cause, but it is a good article on Ollie.One thing I've liked about the Villa from the Smith era, and on in to Emery (we'll forget about the short interlude between those...) is how much I genuinely like the players we have. Tyrone Mings, John McGinn, Ollie Watkins, ... all seem really nice, well-rounded people. Emi Martinez seems like a lunatic, but I always think you want your goalkeeper to be a bit of a head case. They're the footballer equivalent of the drummer in a band.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11999721/Aston-Villas-Ollie-Watkins-taken-game-level-thanks-Unai-Emery.html
haha yes algy
Post by: Risso on May 01, 2023, 12:08:47 AM
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on May 01, 2023, 12:57:29 AM
Buendia seems a bit of a stroppy tit. It doesn’t really matter of course, but he doesn’t score highly on the likeable scale.
It's the first time he has really f**ked me off today. I was glad he was subbed and he's definitely grinding my gears a little more.
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 13, 2023, 10:10:05 PM
Watkins likes his scores against Liverpool
So let his record be made against them next Saturday.
Fact:
5 games and 5 goals vs Liverpool
Post by: Bad English on May 13, 2023, 10:48:41 PM
Post by: Risso on May 13, 2023, 10:52:19 PM
Post by: Bad English on May 13, 2023, 10:55:24 PM
He’s bang out of form at the moment, doesn’t look remotely like scoring.I'm back to 'Not good enough, need an upgrade.'
Post by: Ian. on May 13, 2023, 11:05:01 PM
Post by: Bad English on May 13, 2023, 11:16:00 PM
He was unlucky with that diving header today.Y = h (X) + e
Here y is the performance results, x is the input, h is a function on your input x and e the luck factor. The performance is the function of your input and luck factor.
Then, interestingly, we can arrive at the expression
(https://i.ibb.co/LpQVzxB/0-UCFJz-ZJ9-ZTJh8-Eyj.png)
So I'm not sure if I agree.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 13, 2023, 11:32:04 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 20, 2023, 01:29:35 PM
He has liked playing Liverpool and is 5 for 5, so we shouldn't be surprised if he scores.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 20, 2023, 01:53:05 PM
Always hopeful Watkins scores in games. Today he may break his Premier League record and get 15 goals!
He has liked playing Liverpool and is 5 for 5, so we shouldn't be surprised if he scores.
I imagine most of us are hopeful he scores.
Post by: OCD on May 20, 2023, 05:21:37 PM
Post by: Risso on May 20, 2023, 05:23:39 PM
Bottled the penalty. Needs to work with a sports psychologist to be stronger in higher pressure situations.
He needs to be more way more consistent. Superb for his run of scoring a few weeks ago, but now back to being utterly anonymous again, and he bottled that penalty today horribly.
Post by: SoccerHQ on May 20, 2023, 05:23:52 PM
Bottled the penalty. Needs to work with a sports psychologist to be stronger in higher pressure situations.
Just never convincing as a penalty taker so would prefer a new one next season. He went for the corner and it wasn't even close.
Post by: frank black on May 20, 2023, 05:24:09 PM
Post by: Bad English on May 20, 2023, 05:28:00 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 20, 2023, 05:30:11 PM
Bottled the penalty. Needs to work with a sports psychologist to be stronger in higher pressure situations.
Just never convincing as a penalty taker so would prefer a new one next season. He went for the corner and it wasn't even close.
I wonder if he noticed the 'keeper going that way, and overcompensated.
Post by: OCD on May 20, 2023, 05:32:13 PM
Bottled the penalty. Needs to work with a sports psychologist to be stronger in higher pressure situations.
Just never convincing as a penalty taker so would prefer a new one next season. He went for the corner and it wasn't even close.
I wonder if he noticed the 'keeper going that way, and overcompensated.
That's what I thought.
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 20, 2023, 05:33:38 PM
Very poor on that front.
Seemed surprised himself.
Post by: OCD on May 20, 2023, 05:44:03 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 20, 2023, 05:45:51 PM
Post by: eamonn on May 20, 2023, 06:00:29 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 20, 2023, 06:02:11 PM
What is Watkins' penalty record with us?
I think scored once missed twice
Post by: Bobby Boy on May 20, 2023, 06:07:22 PM
What is Watkins' penalty record with us?
I think scored once missed twice
His record prior to joining us was poor too.
Over to you Unai.
Post by: Goldenballs on May 20, 2023, 06:12:26 PM
Post by: achilles on May 20, 2023, 06:23:57 PM
Danny Ings is a natural goalscorer and would have scored that penalty!
Post by: nigel on May 20, 2023, 06:24:09 PM
Bottled the penalty. Needs to work with a sports psychologist to be stronger in higher pressure situations.
Just never convincing as a penalty taker so would prefer a new one next season. He went for the corner and it wasn't even close.
I wonder if he noticed the 'keeper going that way, and overcompensated.
Hard and high down the centre, left or right. A keeper will hardly ever save one.
Post by: eamonn on May 20, 2023, 06:31:35 PM
I know this sounds stupid but I don't think that he is a natural or instinctive goalscorer, he thinks far too much! His name is on the back of my shirt so I like him a lot but ............
Danny Ings is a natural goalscorer and would have scored that penalty!
Yes but we'd be 12 in the table if Ings had played all the games since February instead of Watkins. Man has opted for semi-retirement at WHam cos he isn't and won't be a regular starter there either.
Post by: Risso on May 20, 2023, 06:37:24 PM
Saw on twitter that he's missed 5 from 9. Dunno if true.
It's true.
Missed 3 and scored 1 in the Championship for Brentford.
Missed 2 and scored 3 in the Premier League for us.
I'd strongly recommend somebody else is given the job in future, that effort today was dire, there's no excuse for not even getting it on target.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 20, 2023, 06:39:38 PM
Luiz.Saw on twitter that he's missed 5 from 9. Dunno if true.
It's true.
Missed 3 and scored 1 in the Championship for Brentford.
Missed 2 and scored 3 in the Premier League for us.
I'd strongly recommend somebody else is given the job in future, that effort today was dire, there's no excuse for not even getting it on target.
Post by: Beard82 on May 20, 2023, 06:48:19 PM
To be honest I would have luiz, Digne, Ramsey or even Bailey ahead of him
Post by: Goldenballs on May 20, 2023, 06:50:16 PM
Saw on twitter that he's missed 5 from 9. Dunno if true.
It's true.
Missed 3 and scored 1 in the Championship for Brentford.
Missed 2 and scored 3 in the Premier League for us.
I'd strongly recommend somebody else is given the job in future, that effort today was dire, there's no excuse for not even getting it on target.
Then that's truly pathetic, he should be nowhere near them.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 20, 2023, 06:55:12 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on May 20, 2023, 06:59:56 PM
That was even more high pressure than today. Think he only missed two for us but he took over 10.
El Ghazi best we had in recent times as don't think any keeper ever dived the right way.
Ollie seems to go for high risk too much. I remember that last minute one at West Ham when for some reason he was aiming for the far top corner and hit the bar.
Just watch the keeper made his first move and stroke it into the corner. Today wasn't even close to being on target.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 20, 2023, 07:00:09 PM
Luiz.Saw on twitter that he's missed 5 from 9. Dunno if true.
It's true.
Missed 3 and scored 1 in the Championship for Brentford.
Missed 2 and scored 3 in the Premier League for us.
I'd strongly recommend somebody else is given the job in future, that effort today was dire, there's no excuse for not even getting it on target.
Good call. I think Dougie would love the responsibility as well as the glory. Next season we have to see him returning to the Brazil squad. You can see he's loving it at the moment but wearing the national shirt is something Brazilians give so much importance to, probably more than any country I can think of.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 20, 2023, 07:01:51 PM
Don't know why Ollie didn't blast it like the Everton one. Sadly this ineffectual goal drought he's in now undermines the hot streak he was on before. I'd love him to score the goal that gets us Europe but at the risk of h&v cliche, we need an upgrade.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 20, 2023, 07:03:55 PM
Post by: maidstonevillain on May 20, 2023, 07:11:53 PM
Watkins - post babies - is not clinical enough to take penalties. He needs at least another 9 months to be back to his clinical best. we saw that last time.
To be honest I would have luiz, Digne, Ramsey or even Bailey ahead of him
Agree. And Traore, McGinn, Young, Cash, Kamara, Buendia, Moreno, Coutihno, Dendoncker, Duran, Mings, and Daly and Lehmann.
Post by: Bobby Boy on May 20, 2023, 07:12:17 PM
It's happened as the stakes on each game have increased which is a worry.
I'm thinking that we could be looking at breaking our transfer record in the summer on a forward who can take us in the top 4 reckoning.
I'm not sure that Ollie is the guy to take us to the level that Unai is seeking.
Post by: KevinGage on May 20, 2023, 07:19:34 PM
El Ghazi best we had in recent times as don't think any keeper ever dived the right way.
Bring him back as a specialist kicker.
He's been disappointing ever since the Newcastle game when he could have scored 5.
It's happened as the stakes on each game have increased which is a worry.
I'm thinking that we could be looking at breaking our transfer record in the summer on a forward who can take us in the top 4 reckoning.
I'm not sure that Ollie is the guy to take us to the level that Unai is seeking.
Don't see us going for a direct replacement/ competition with the season he's had. More likely a False 9 or wide forward- type.
Post by: bill on May 20, 2023, 08:00:45 PM
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on May 20, 2023, 08:06:01 PM
Post by: Beard82 on May 20, 2023, 08:10:54 PM
Think Archer is good enough competition for Ollie, particularly if we get into Europe (so he gets game time). He knows where the
A bit disappointed with Duran - Im sure that's my impatience but I don't see much to suggest hell be a top player.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on May 20, 2023, 08:13:06 PM
Post by: Goldenballs on May 20, 2023, 08:23:10 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 20, 2023, 08:25:09 PM
If we're going for top 6 next season then we need a new 9, harsh but true.
We could still get 6th this season with Watkins.
Post by: Beard82 on May 20, 2023, 08:26:20 PM
Dont think I would be sad if I never saw Bailey in a villa shirt again. Beundia is worth keeping though
Post by: Pete3206 on May 21, 2023, 11:32:30 AM
If we're going for top 6 next season then we need a new 9, harsh but true.
We could still get 6th this season with Watkins.
And I think we would have been top 6 for sure, if we'd have had Emery from the start. Definitely need additions to the forward line, but Watkins is going to be a big player next season.
Post by: Risso on May 21, 2023, 12:13:46 PM
If we're going for top 6 next season then we need a new 9, harsh but true.
We could still get 6th this season with Watkins.
And I think we would have been top 6 for sure, if we'd have had Emery from the start. Definitely need additions to the forward line, but Watkins is going to be a big player next season.
As he's showing at the moment though, he can't be our only striker though. The 11 goals in 12 games was amazing, but the ten games either side of that period have yielded no goals at all. Mind you, be interesting to see if he can go up a level with better players than Bailey and Buendia around him.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on May 21, 2023, 12:24:11 PM
Id love a new number 9 - but so long as we upgrade Bailey and Beundia at the same time.
Dont think I would be sad if I never saw Bailey in a villa shirt again. Beundia is worth keeping though
Wholeheartedly agree with this. Buendia can maybe improve on his weaker points but Bailey has too many for that to happen, he’s as capable as he is incapable.
Post by: eamonn on May 21, 2023, 02:52:05 PM
Post by: not3bad on May 21, 2023, 05:01:44 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 21, 2023, 05:59:02 PM
The 11 goals in 12 games was amazing, but the ten games either side of that period have yielded no goals at all.
I never realised it was already 10 games. It's very Dean Smith 'feast or famine'. I expect us to certainly bring in a winger/striker, I just wonder if our budget will stretch to a goal scoring centre forward.
Post by: RamboandBruno on May 21, 2023, 06:41:25 PM
Post by: Risso on May 21, 2023, 09:43:10 PM
I know its probably sacrilege to say this on here but i think Archer will be sold this summer. Everyone has a massive soft spot for him, but it feels like we’ll be shopping at a different level to him. I can see him go to a club expected to compete at the top end of the championship, either Boro, or a Southampton or Leicester.
On the other hand, we're investing a lot of time, money and energy in youth players. If the first time one of them steps up and is a big success on loan and we then sell him, what really is the point?
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 21, 2023, 09:55:21 PM
It just makes no sense whatsoever.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 21, 2023, 09:56:04 PM
I know its probably sacrilege to say this on here but i think Archer will be sold this summer. Everyone has a massive soft spot for him, but it feels like we’ll be shopping at a different level to him. I can see him go to a club expected to compete at the top end of the championship, either Boro, or a Southampton or Leicester.
On the other hand, we're investing a lot of time, money and energy in youth players. If the first time one of them steps up and is a big success on loan and we then sell him, what really is the point?
You've just answered your own question - selling them on.
Archer is a great example.
Never proved himself at the top level, never had the chance, and is he going to get it with us?
We are talking about Watkins needing at the very least some serious competition, but if we say there's no point in just selling the likes of Archer, then that means that he effectively becomes the other option to Watkins. How many of us would be satisfied with that?
We could very well sell him to a newly promoted club for £20m. Given how many youth players never get near making it, that's a lot of money. We'd have taken £40m from Chuk and Archer, for example. Then the question becomes, well, what do we do, keep those two or use the 40m to buy a really high quality proven player to really improve the first team?
Chelsea have done this for years, developed young players, sent them out on loan, then either incorporate them in their first team set up or flog them for decent money without them really ever playing PL for them.
Archer, Ramsey, Philogene, Barry, Iroegbunam, Azaz etc etc - they can't all make it here.
Post by: SamTheMouse on May 21, 2023, 10:05:49 PM
Post by: Steve67 on May 21, 2023, 10:14:13 PM
That's going to be the strategy now, you'd think. Fatten up the young calves, so to speak, then sell them, which helps hugely with keeping us on the right side of FFP. If a couple of them are good enough to get into the first team squad, that's a bonus.
I suspect we'd ask for a percentage of onward transfer sales too.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 21, 2023, 10:25:48 PM
We don’t know for certain if Archer can, maybe they have seen enough to decide he ain’t good enough for the PL but I seriously doubt that is the case.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 21, 2023, 11:01:33 PM
There is a dearth of centre forwards, it makes the few that can play at the top level rare and valuable commodities.
We don’t know for certain if Archer can, maybe they have seen enough to decide he ain’t good enough for the PL but I seriously doubt that is the case.
Maybe they don't want to take the risk.
Also look at it from the player's point of view, he's going to want to be playing regular games. If it was hard for him to get them with us in previous years, it is going to get even harder.
I struggle a bit when i read (not referring to you here) people talk about these young players as if our role as a club is to bring them through.
It isn't. It is to have as much success on the pitch as we can, and starting this summer, that's going to involve being significantly more unsentimental with players than we have in the past - whether it be current first team players, or youth products, if we raise the quality bar, it is inevitable that more of them have to be moved on, or have to get used to playing less football.
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 22, 2023, 08:58:29 AM
I agree , it’s difficult to adjust mentally to seeing our player development as farming and not as a potential route to the first team.There is a dearth of centre forwards, it makes the few that can play at the top level rare and valuable commodities.
We don’t know for certain if Archer can, maybe they have seen enough to decide he ain’t good enough for the PL but I seriously doubt that is the case.
Maybe they don't want to take the risk.
Also look at it from the player's point of view, he's going to want to be playing regular games. If it was hard for him to get them with us in previous years, it is going to get even harder.
I struggle a bit when i read (not referring to you here) people talk about these young players as if our role as a club is to bring them through.
It isn't. It is to have as much success on the pitch as we can, and starting this summer, that's going to involve being significantly more unsentimental with players than we have in the past - whether it be current first team players, or youth products, if we raise the quality bar, it is inevitable that more of them have to be moved on, or have to get used to playing less football.
I also have this fear that we might let go a player that we come to regret.
Archer is a natural finisher and Watkins isn’t, however the question with Archer is if the rest of his game is up to it.
Post by: Risso on May 22, 2023, 09:35:14 AM
There is a dearth of centre forwards, it makes the few that can play at the top level rare and valuable commodities.
We don’t know for certain if Archer can, maybe they have seen enough to decide he ain’t good enough for the PL but I seriously doubt that is the case.
Maybe they don't want to take the risk.
Also look at it from the player's point of view, he's going to want to be playing regular games. If it was hard for him to get them with us in previous years, it is going to get even harder.
I struggle a bit when i read (not referring to you here) people talk about these young players as if our role as a club is to bring them through.
It isn't. It is to have as much success on the pitch as we can, and starting this summer, that's going to involve being significantly more unsentimental with players than we have in the past - whether it be current first team players, or youth products, if we raise the quality bar, it is inevitable that more of them have to be moved on, or have to get used to playing less football.
I think another part of the equation though is the amount of money you can save if you do bring through a young player who is good enough. So sure, we could sell Archer for £20m and that's decent profit straight to the bottom line. But if he does turn out to be good enough, that could save you a £60m fee and £100K a week in wages in the medium term. I just think he's shown enough to be worth a squad place.
Even if we buy say, 4 really top notch players in the summer, I can see us getting shut of the likes of Coutinho, Bailey, Chambers and Dendoncker. That would be basically be one in, one out, which still leaves us short of squad players. Plenty of room for somebody like Archer to be in the squad, at least for 6 months to give him time with Emery and his team, something he hasn't really had yet.
Post by: Drummond on May 22, 2023, 09:49:23 AM
I wonder if Archer is similar, or whether he's going higher....
Post by: eamonn on May 22, 2023, 09:58:10 AM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 22, 2023, 10:04:48 AM
There is a dearth of centre forwards, it makes the few that can play at the top level rare and valuable commodities.
We don’t know for certain if Archer can, maybe they have seen enough to decide he ain’t good enough for the PL but I seriously doubt that is the case.
Maybe they don't want to take the risk.
Also look at it from the player's point of view, he's going to want to be playing regular games. If it was hard for him to get them with us in previous years, it is going to get even harder.
I struggle a bit when i read (not referring to you here) people talk about these young players as if our role as a club is to bring them through.
It isn't. It is to have as much success on the pitch as we can, and starting this summer, that's going to involve being significantly more unsentimental with players than we have in the past - whether it be current first team players, or youth products, if we raise the quality bar, it is inevitable that more of them have to be moved on, or have to get used to playing less football.
I think another part of the equation though is the amount of money you can save if you do bring through a young player who is good enough. So sure, we could sell Archer for £20m and that's decent profit straight to the bottom line. But if he does turn out to be good enough, that could save you a £60m fee and £100K a week in wages in the medium term. I just think he's shown enough to be worth a squad place.
Even if we buy say, 4 really top notch players in the summer, I can see us getting shut of the likes of Coutinho, Bailey, Chambers and Dendoncker. That would be basically be one in, one out, which still leaves us short of squad players. Plenty of room for somebody like Archer to be in the squad, at least for 6 months to give him time with Emery and his team, something he hasn't really had yet.
I agree re those being the ones to get shot of.
I don't know if Archer has done enough to warrant a place, he's produced in the Championship, but then again, so did Chuba Akpom this season.
I don't have a huge problem if he stays, but again, it depends on the context of who else we have as an option.
Post by: Smithy on May 22, 2023, 10:08:55 AM
Liverpool did the right thing with Brewster, blamed him to where he'd do well, then sold him for good money when he did.
I wonder if Archer is similar, or whether he's going higher....
There's always a risk he'll be another Brewster, but I think it's unlikely. Brewster had one good six-month loan at Swansea, in a side that clearly suited him and the way he plays. Archer has done it during two different loans in the Championship, at two clubs with different playing styles, and with different levels of competitiveness. I think that speaks quite highly of his potential. It's not like he struggled in a struggling team, and only performed when he could be a flat-track bully.
The concern - as it is for all of our young players - is that the better the team performs on the pitch, the harder it will be for them to break through, and for us to give them the pitch-time they need to develop into fully rounded experienced premier league players. A player like Jacob Ramsey timed his arrival in the team perfectly. A bit of lower league experience, then into a bottom half squad, without huge amounts of quality, and an opportunity to play without being dropped off the back of one bad performance. Would he have had that chance if we'd been a side pushing for Europe? Probably not. He certainly wouldn't have played as many games as a 19/20 year old if he'd come through two years later.
It might be that none of our recent youth products are capable of becoming regulars for a team chasing the top 6 or top 4. I really hope I'm wrong on that. But honestly, being excited by the possibility that they COULD, is a big part of being a fan of the club. What happens on the pitch will always come first, but the possibility of what is being developed by the club can certainly help when the 'on the pitch stuff' is not going too well.
Post by: Risso on May 22, 2023, 10:18:56 AM
There is a dearth of centre forwards, it makes the few that can play at the top level rare and valuable commodities.
We don’t know for certain if Archer can, maybe they have seen enough to decide he ain’t good enough for the PL but I seriously doubt that is the case.
Maybe they don't want to take the risk.
Also look at it from the player's point of view, he's going to want to be playing regular games. If it was hard for him to get them with us in previous years, it is going to get even harder.
I struggle a bit when i read (not referring to you here) people talk about these young players as if our role as a club is to bring them through.
It isn't. It is to have as much success on the pitch as we can, and starting this summer, that's going to involve being significantly more unsentimental with players than we have in the past - whether it be current first team players, or youth products, if we raise the quality bar, it is inevitable that more of them have to be moved on, or have to get used to playing less football.
I think another part of the equation though is the amount of money you can save if you do bring through a young player who is good enough. So sure, we could sell Archer for £20m and that's decent profit straight to the bottom line. But if he does turn out to be good enough, that could save you a £60m fee and £100K a week in wages in the medium term. I just think he's shown enough to be worth a squad place.
Even if we buy say, 4 really top notch players in the summer, I can see us getting shut of the likes of Coutinho, Bailey, Chambers and Dendoncker. That would be basically be one in, one out, which still leaves us short of squad players. Plenty of room for somebody like Archer to be in the squad, at least for 6 months to give him time with Emery and his team, something he hasn't really had yet.
I agree re those being the ones to get shot of.
I don't know if Archer has done enough to warrant a place, he's produced in the Championship, but then again, so did Chuba Akpom this season.
I don't have a huge problem if he stays, but again, it depends on the context of who else we have as an option.
Akpom's 27 though, and this is his first good season.
Unless we're saying that our youth players are never going to get a chance and are purely there to be developed and sold, then what more could Archer do to be given a chance? In 19 games he scored 11 goals and provided 6 assists for a big Championship club at the top end of the table. He appears to have lots of very good attributes, eg an eye for goal, he's quick, has a decent amount of skill and makes good decisions.
Obviously I'm not going to complain if we spend £150m on new forwards and he doesn't get a sniff, but most of our transfer windows since we've been back in the PL have been slightly disappointing for one reason or another, and I'm too old and cynical to believe that this is going to be hugely different.
Post by: OCD on May 22, 2023, 11:03:34 AM
Group Stage -
Viborg
FCSB
Silkeborg
Anderlecht
Knock-Out rounds -
Larnaca
Gent (quarter-final)
Alkmaar (semi-final)
Fiorentina (final)
Of their group opponents, I only know Anderlecht. When you've got 6 fixtures against teams you've never heard of, surely you can keep a strong core of your team and then blood kids that you feel offer the most promise (i.e. Archer, A-Ram and maybe Iroegbunam).
Then when you've got a bench of 9 (and you can actually name 8 outfield substitutes), and use 5 of them, then it's going to be easier for those players to start becoming a part of the first team picture.
That doesn't stop you from going out and buying top, proven quality players at their peak.
Post by: Risso on May 22, 2023, 11:06:41 AM
Post by: Drummond on May 22, 2023, 11:11:46 AM
Liverpool did the right thing with Brewster, blamed him to where he'd do well, then sold him for good money when he did.
I wonder if Archer is similar, or whether he's going higher....
There's always a risk he'll be another Brewster, but I think it's unlikely. Brewster had one good six-month loan at Swansea, in a side that clearly suited him and the way he plays. Archer has done it during two different loans in the Championship, at two clubs with different playing styles, and with different levels of competitiveness. I think that speaks quite highly of his potential. It's not like he struggled in a struggling team, and only performed when he could be a flat-track bully.
The concern - as it is for all of our young players - is that the better the team performs on the pitch, the harder it will be for them to break through, and for us to give them the pitch-time they need to develop into fully rounded experienced premier league players. A player like Jacob Ramsey timed his arrival in the team perfectly. A bit of lower league experience, then into a bottom half squad, without huge amounts of quality, and an opportunity to play without being dropped off the back of one bad performance. Would he have had that chance if we'd been a side pushing for Europe? Probably not. He certainly wouldn't have played as many games as a 19/20 year old if he'd come through two years later.
It might be that none of our recent youth products are capable of becoming regulars for a team chasing the top 6 or top 4. I really hope I'm wrong on that. But honestly, being excited by the possibility that they COULD, is a big part of being a fan of the club. What happens on the pitch will always come first, but the possibility of what is being developed by the club can certainly help when the 'on the pitch stuff' is not going too well.
I know what you mean, I've got high hopes for not just him, but Aaron Ramsey, Iroegbunam, Barry, Wilson too.
I watched Archer in the play-off game, so their biggest of the season and he really didn't do it, I wonder whether that's just not being ready for the big occasion. You can counter it with the goals for us in the League Cup, but it's a worry.
If we're signing the sort of quality we think we're signing, then it becomes a lot harder for him to even get cup minutes.
Post by: Risso on May 22, 2023, 11:23:17 AM
I watched Archer in the play-off game, so their biggest of the season and he really didn't do it, I wonder whether that's just not being ready for the big occasion. You can counter it with the goals for us in the League Cup, but it's a worry.
If you're going to write players off after a less than stellar performance in a single game, then you could do similar for quite a few of our players who have had a stinker in certain games this season. Kamara at home to Leicester as a case in point, if that was the only time you'd watched him you wouldn't want him in if we got paid to take him. That would ignore how good he was in other games though, and it's the same here, the whole Boro team seemed to freeze, and using the game to single out Archer ignores the fact that they might not have got to the play offs in the first place if it wasn't for him.
Post by: OCD on May 22, 2023, 11:26:45 AM
Post by: AV82EC on May 22, 2023, 11:31:03 AM
I'd also rather have Archer in the squad than Duran, to be brutally honest. The latter needs a loan out for next season.
Yep spot on. I’ve been distinctly unimpressed with Duran so far he looks incredibly raw for a back up striker at this level.
Post by: Risso on May 22, 2023, 11:35:08 AM
Post by: Drummond on May 22, 2023, 11:51:22 AM
I watched Archer in the play-off game, so their biggest of the season and he really didn't do it, I wonder whether that's just not being ready for the big occasion. You can counter it with the goals for us in the League Cup, but it's a worry.
If you're going to write players off after a less than stellar performance in a single game, then you could do similar for quite a few of our players who have had a stinker in certain games this season. Kamara at home to Leicester as a case in point, if that was the only time you'd watched him you wouldn't want him in if we got paid to take him. That would ignore how good he was in other games though, and it's the same here, the whole Boro team seemed to freeze, and using the game to single out Archer ignores the fact that they might not have got to the play offs in the first place if it wasn't for him.
Well yes, plenty of our players have been written off as utter shit and garbage after a single error in one game! Generally, he has done well and scored goals, and I hope he goes on to be our record Premier League goalscorer, but to do it, well that takes a lot.
Post by: Drummond on May 22, 2023, 11:52:58 AM
I can see both sides of the argument with respect to Archer and giving him a shot in the squad or selling him for decent money. But then we went and spent £18m on Duran, who got a few goals in a far weaker league. If we're bringing youngsters in to develop and sell on, what's the point in bringing one in for a fee that would be the sort of money that promising youth players usually get sold for?
I guess it's about the differing styles, and the stats too. Archer is similar to Watkins, though I'd probably argue he seems like a more natural poacher and finisher, whereas Duran is more of a traditional centre forward?
Post by: SamTheMouse on May 22, 2023, 12:12:18 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on May 22, 2023, 12:18:10 PM
I suspect the belief is that Archer just isn't a big enough unit physically for the Premier League. Which would strike me as a bit unfair.
FWIW my uncle, who's watched most of Boro's televised games this year, reckons young Ramsey will make it at Villa but is still unsure about Cam.
Post by: SamTheMouse on May 22, 2023, 12:20:09 PM
I suspect the belief is that Archer just isn't a big enough unit physically for the Premier League. Which would strike me as a bit unfair.
FWIW my uncle, who's watched most of Boro's televised games this year, reckons young Ramsey will make it at Villa but is still unsure about Cam.
Has he elaborated as to why?
Post by: Smithy on May 22, 2023, 02:20:43 PM
I suspect the belief is that Archer just isn't a big enough unit physically for the Premier League. Which would strike me as a bit unfair.
FWIW my uncle, who's watched most of Boro's televised games this year, reckons young Ramsey will make it at Villa but is still unsure about Cam.
Has he elaborated as to why?
My boro supporting mate believes they'll both make it, though having failed to go up he is desperate to secure them both again for a full season, because he thinks automatic promotion would be on with them both in the side.
Post by: Risso on May 22, 2023, 02:24:07 PM
I suspect the belief is that Archer just isn't a big enough unit physically for the Premier League. Which would strike me as a bit unfair.
Just wrong, surely? He's 5'11, exactly the same height as Watkins. Neither of them are exactly Peter Crouch but nor are they Alan Wright. Emery's style doesn't require a big target man anyway.
Post by: Duncan Shaw on May 22, 2023, 03:52:50 PM
Post by: brontebilly on May 22, 2023, 03:53:41 PM
I suspect the belief is that Archer just isn't a big enough unit physically for the Premier League. Which would strike me as a bit unfair.
Jermaine Defoe wasn't that big, scored plenty though. Archer is explosive, get him back into the squad and give him games. Not starting Ollie every week and giving Archer the odd 5-10 mins.
Post by: Yeltzer on May 24, 2023, 02:01:28 PM
Post by: Smithy on May 24, 2023, 02:07:09 PM
And Southgate hasn’t picked him. Again.
It's a shame, but his drop off in form was really badly timed. If this squad is picked a month ago, I'm certain he gets picked. But six games without a goal, and missing the pen on Sat, I think makes it easier to pick Wilson ahead of him. He'll bounce back, hopefully with a brace on Saturday!
Post by: Drummond on May 24, 2023, 02:11:28 PM
And Southgate hasn’t picked him. Again.
It's a shame, but his drop off in form was really badly timed. If this squad is picked a month ago, I'm certain he gets picked. But six games without a goal, and missing the pen on Sat, I think makes it easier to pick Wilson ahead of him. He'll bounce back, hopefully with a brace on Saturday!
I'd rather he waited until Sunday to be honest.
Post by: Hookeysmith on May 24, 2023, 02:12:44 PM
And Southgate hasn’t picked him. Again.
It's a shame, but his drop off in form was really badly timed. If this squad is picked a month ago, I'm certain he gets picked. But six games without a goal, and missing the pen on Sat, I think makes it easier to pick Wilson ahead of him. He'll bounce back, hopefully with a brace on Saturday!
How does Gallagher or Phillips get in above Ramsey? Is that the Kalvin Phillips that has played about 3 games this year?
And Harry Slabhead - he must have compromising pictures of Southgate somewhere
And what else can he learn from Jordan Henderson - he gets shitter with age?
Kalvin
What an absolute tosser Mouthgate is
Post by: Risso on May 24, 2023, 02:49:18 PM
And Southgate hasn’t picked him. Again.
It appears to be a choice between Ollie and Callum Wilson, and while I'm as one-eyed a Villa fan as you can get, no way is Watkins getting in ahead of the Newcastle player at the moment. Wilson has scored more goals in fewer games. He's got 18 goals and 5 assists in 60% of the game time of Ollie, who has 14 goals and 6 assists. Also Ollie's form in the last 6 games has mostly been average to poor, and hasn't remotely looked like scoring. Wilson's got 7 in his last 6. Obviously it's a bit unlucky in terms of timing as up to and including the Newcastle game Ollie was unstoppable, but his form has tailed off horribly since then.
Post by: Somniloquism on May 24, 2023, 02:51:01 PM
Post by: LeeB on May 24, 2023, 02:52:01 PM
Post by: Clampy on May 24, 2023, 02:53:17 PM
Post by: paul_e on May 24, 2023, 02:56:15 PM
That's fair, but Wilson is also 32 next season and injury prone.
This the bit that makes me think Watkins should still have been taken, with Toney out for 8months and no guarantees he'll be back fit and in form for the euros we need options.
I'd have taken them both and left Maguire out, I have no idea why we need 5 centre backs in the squad for these 2 games.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 24, 2023, 02:59:46 PM
I know who I would rather have in my team out the two.For a one off game and both fit, so do I.
Post by: chrisw1 on May 24, 2023, 03:02:04 PM
I think this is probably fair. Whilst I prefer Wilson right now Watkins may have been a more sensible when having an eye on the Euros, particularly with the strength of the opposition for these 2 games.That's fair, but Wilson is also 32 next season and injury prone.
This the bit that makes me think Watkins should still have been taken, with Toney out for 8months and no guarantees he'll be back fit and in form for the euros we need options.
I'd have taken them both and left Maguire out, I have no idea why we need 5 centre backs in the squad for these 2 games.
Post by: Risso on May 24, 2023, 03:04:49 PM
I know who I would rather have in my team out the two.For a one off game and both fit, so do I.
Me too, and it's not Ollie I'm afraid.
Post by: sid1964 on May 24, 2023, 03:06:15 PM
Post by: Clampy on May 24, 2023, 03:06:28 PM
Post by: Monty on May 24, 2023, 03:07:43 PM
Southgate is picking on current form - the FIREMAN Wilson has done well recently
Yes hence Maguire, Maddison, Phillips, Gallagher also in the squad. Form. Current form.
Post by: LeeB on May 24, 2023, 03:15:32 PM
Post by: Risso on May 24, 2023, 03:19:27 PM
Phillips is the one for me, I just don't get it at all. There must be a dozen players that can do what he does (or actually doesn't do anymore). He has never been a good enough footballer to earn a place without playing.
Absolutely baffling. Him and Maguire, to be honest.
Post by: paul_e on May 24, 2023, 03:27:28 PM
Southgate is picking on current form - the FIREMAN Wilson has done well recently
Yes hence Maguire, Maddison, Phillips, Gallagher also in the squad. Form. Current form.
I'm not sure Maddison deserves to be lumped in with that lot, he's been their best player this season by miles and is overdue his call-up.
The other 3 aren't good enough to even be regular starters for their clubs (one of which would be in the relegation battle if the season was a couple of games longer).
Post by: rob_bridge on May 24, 2023, 03:45:04 PM
Post by: eamonn on May 24, 2023, 04:17:42 PM
Ollie out of the two for me.
Why? Wilson is a far more confident finisher.
Post by: paul_e on May 24, 2023, 04:18:10 PM
We're playing teams where we should clock up 9-10 goals without too much trouble so the argument will be that his record is good so we shouldn't complain but we've seen 3 times in a row that the problem with that is that his narrow-mindedness, inflexibility and refusal to bow to pressure see us hit a ceiling. Everyone thinks he should drop Maguire so he'll pick him, and play him, to prove a point, same with Phillips.
That said my biggest problem is Gallagher, a guy who struggles to start in one of the most out of form teams in the league, who has done nothing in international football and has been shit when he has played all season, and yet he's somehow safely part of the squad ahead of a number of players who deserve that chance. Like he did with Phillips and Mount before he's decided this is a player he wants in the squad and no matter what happens, how often they play or how out of form they get they're untouchable. The only surprise in the squad is that he has finally seen sense and replaced Mount with Eze.
Post by: Clampy on May 24, 2023, 04:23:17 PM
Ollie out of the two for me.
Why? Wilson is a far more confident finisher.
He's only scored three more than Ollie this season and I like Ollies all round play.
Post by: Risso on May 24, 2023, 04:56:40 PM
Ollie out of the two for me.
Why? Wilson is a far more confident finisher.
He's only scored three more than Ollie this season and I like Ollies all round play.
He's played just over half the minutes that Watkins has.
Post by: LeeB on May 24, 2023, 04:57:30 PM
Ollie out of the two for me.
Why? Wilson is a far more confident finisher.
He's only scored three more than Ollie this season and I like Ollies all round play.
He's played just over half the minutes that Watkins has.
That in itself say a lot
Post by: Ian. on May 24, 2023, 05:09:32 PM
Ollie out of the two for me.
Why? Wilson is a far more confident finisher.
He's only scored three more than Ollie this season and I like Ollies all round play.
He's played just over half the minutes that Watkins has.
That in itself say a lot
Every season he only plays half the games. He is very good though.
Post by: Clampy on May 24, 2023, 05:16:15 PM
Post by: Risso on May 24, 2023, 05:17:48 PM
You could argue Wilson has had a striker alongside him (Isak). Ollie has in the main played as the loan striker in that mad scoring run he had but if people have stopped praising him now he's stopped scoring, then so be it. It's what some fans do I suppose
Ha ha, you just can't help yourself can you?!
Post by: Clampy on May 24, 2023, 05:19:36 PM
You could argue Wilson has had a striker alongside him (Isak). Ollie has in the main played as the loan striker in that mad scoring run he had but if people have stopped praising him now he's stopped scoring, then so be it. It's what some fans do I suppose
Ha ha, you just can't help yourself can you?!
What are you on about now?
Post by: tomd2103 on May 24, 2023, 05:26:54 PM
Post by: OCD on May 24, 2023, 05:29:00 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on May 24, 2023, 05:30:58 PM
You could argue Wilson has had a striker alongside him (Isak). Ollie has in the main played as the loan striker in that mad scoring run he had but if people have stopped praising him now he's stopped scoring, then so be it. It's what some fans do I supposeI don't think it's unreasonable to be of the opinion that Wilson is a better striker than Watkins.
Post by: eamonn on May 24, 2023, 05:31:55 PM
Post by: Olof's Beard on May 24, 2023, 05:34:43 PM
Post by: lovejoy on May 24, 2023, 05:42:30 PM
Post by: Dave on May 24, 2023, 05:45:20 PM
You could argue Wilson has had a striker alongside him (Isak).
Think I read that a game the other week was the first time they'd ever started a match together.
Post by: Clampy on May 24, 2023, 05:58:41 PM
You could argue Wilson has had a striker alongside him (Isak). Ollie has in the main played as the loan striker in that mad scoring run he had but if people have stopped praising him now he's stopped scoring, then so be it. It's what some fans do I supposeI don't think it's unreasonable to be of the opinion that Wilson is a better striker than Watkins.
I haven't said otherwise.
Post by: Olof's Beard on May 24, 2023, 06:16:00 PM
Once you set aside the "picking on form" argument, the choices are fairly self explanatory. We have won with McGuire and Philips so he keeps picking them.
Yep, everyone knows they are both going to be in the squad regardless now so not sure why everyone gets het up about it. It's hardly a surprise. Phillips would probably be out if Southgate had a multitude of other defensive midfielders to choose from but he doesn't. Maguire obviously doesn't deserve his place but he'll still get picked after he's retired at this rate.
I do think the manager makes a bit of a rod for his own back for this selection because it magnifies the choices he makes when he leaves regulars out. Take Sterling, who has obviously had a shite season and doesn't deserve to be in on current form but has plenty of previous form to draw on. He could quite rightly argue that he shouldn't be dropped if Maguire is constantly retained.
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 24, 2023, 06:23:37 PM
Phillips is the one for me, I just don't get it at all. There must be a dozen players that can do what he does (or actually doesn't do anymore). He has never been a good enough footballer to earn a place without playing.
There are certain players that fly in the face of the whole “he’s in on merit” argument. I get Maguire does well for England. But when you mainly play utterly shit national teams it’s not hard to look competent. But what message does it send when clearly certain players are undroppable. And would Phillips have been picked if still played for Leeds and hadn’t played much all season? I very much doubt it. He’s at a “big club” now so gets that treatment from Southgate. And fucking Conor Gallagher are you joking? Not even close to what Ramsey has done.
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 25, 2023, 08:39:45 AM
"Watkins, 27, also has two years to run having already equalled his best Premier League season goal tally – 14 – with one game to play. Having just missed out on a return to the England squad, the striker is considered key to Emery’s style of play"
Source: ITK John Percy
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 25, 2023, 10:14:18 AM
Ollie out of the two for me.
Why? Wilson is a far more confident finisher.
He's only scored three more than Ollie this season and I like Ollies all round play.
He's played just over half the minutes that Watkins has.
That in itself say a lot
Every season he only plays half the games. He is very good though.
Well the stats on finishing when he hits the target suggest Watkins is doing so very well.
22/23 Premier League Shot on target Conversion rate
1. Haaland 58%
2. Kane 52%
3. Salah and Rashford 44%
4. Watkins 43%
-------------------------------
Son and Toney 40%
Wilson 36%
Mitovic 34%
Post by: Monty on May 25, 2023, 10:18:47 AM
Post by: Somniloquism on May 25, 2023, 10:24:35 AM
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 25, 2023, 10:29:51 AM
Good stat FV. It calls to mind Watkins talking about how Emery has got him working on his variety of finishes.The penalty conversion rate would be less impressive for Watkins
I would say Wilson is one of the best in the Prem for converting penalties and one of the all time Premier league best having only missed one.
Watkins is below him on that metric.
Danny Ings is in the top 10 reliable penalty takers at 10th
Post by: Simon Page on May 25, 2023, 10:37:07 AM
My prediction is 20th.
Post by: olaftab on May 25, 2023, 10:48:46 AM
Post by: not3bad on May 25, 2023, 10:54:25 AM
Wilson has below average conversion rate for a top striker and spends a fair amount of time out injured. Not sure why our Gareth prefers him over Ollie?
He's going purely on recent form. Wilson has got 11 goals in his last 11. Watson hasn't scored in his last 6.
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 25, 2023, 11:03:38 AM
Elementary selecting by Southgate it seems.Wilson has below average conversion rate for a top striker and spends a fair amount of time out injured. Not sure why our Gareth prefers him over Ollie?
He's going purely on recent form. Wilson has got 11 goals in his last 11. Watson hasn't scored in his last 6.
Post by: Dogtanian on May 25, 2023, 11:04:27 AM
Elementary selecting by Southgate it seems.Wilson has below average conversion rate for a top striker and spends a fair amount of time out injured. Not sure why our Gareth prefers him over Ollie?
He's going purely on recent form. Wilson has got 11 goals in his last 11. Watson hasn't scored in his last 6.
;D ;D ;D
Post by: Rigadon on May 25, 2023, 11:52:23 AM
Post by: maidstonevillain on May 25, 2023, 12:02:30 PM
Ollie out of the two for me.
Why? Wilson is a far more confident finisher.
He's only scored three more than Ollie this season and I like Ollies all round play.
He's played just over half the minutes that Watkins has.
That in itself say a lot
Every season he only plays half the games. He is very good though.
Well the stats on finishing when he hits the target suggest Watkins is doing so very well.
22/23 Premier League Shot on target Conversion rate
1. Haaland 58%
2. Kane 52%
3. Salah and Rashford 44%
4. Watkins 43%
-------------------------------
Son and Toney 40%
Wilson 36%
Mitovic 34%
But surely the important stat is how many times he has failed to hit the target when he should have (not counting missed penalties!). I know that becomes a bit subjective, but if assessed I doubt it would look particularly good.
Post by: Risso on May 25, 2023, 12:06:23 PM
Just read that we are apparently trying to organise new deals for both Watkins and McGinn before the transfer window opens . It's very harsh on the lad, but given he is 27 now, I would entertain a big offer for Watkins this summer. The attributes that he has (work rate and physicality) will naturally fade the older he gets - maybe in a year, maybe in 5, who knows. The stuff he isn't as brilliant at will become more of a problem the older he gets. It just feels like potentially the right time to cash in, so long as we got one or two great replacements of course!
I wouldn't be selling him this summer, as inconsistent as he is. That would leave us with no striker who has worked under Emery before, and I think that would be too much of a risk personally.
Post by: Clark W Griswold on May 25, 2023, 12:13:23 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 25, 2023, 12:26:13 PM
As for England, Wilson is rightfully in ahead of him. If the squad was being picked a month ago then it would most likely have been Ollie in.
Post by: OCD on May 25, 2023, 02:00:03 PM
We seem to be leaning into that with us having Watkins, signing Duran and then having Archer. Then by bringing in promising kids, like Wilson who looks like a good prospect.
If there's less of them, they'll be worth more so good money to be made if we can identify and develop a few.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 25, 2023, 03:06:02 PM
Unless someone made a bonkers offer I wouldn't be selling him.
Define bonkers? 50m? 60m?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 25, 2023, 03:23:37 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 25, 2023, 03:27:17 PM
Post by: olaftab on May 25, 2023, 06:04:06 PM
Apparently Wenger held a conference about how there's a lack of younger strikers in the world right now.There is no shortage of young strikers at junior doctors picket line.
Post by: olaftab on May 25, 2023, 06:05:06 PM
I don’t think we should sell him for 1KP.Unless someone made a bonkers offer I wouldn't be selling him.
Define bonkers? 50m? 60m?
Post by: ChicagoLion on May 25, 2023, 06:22:23 PM
70 mil is approaching Footy territoryUnless someone made a bonkers offer I wouldn't be selling him.
Define bonkers? 50m? 60m?
Post by: Footy-Vill on May 25, 2023, 06:51:22 PM
Well Watkins is getting a bumper new deal and I would expect a set release clause of around that amount.70 mil is approaching Footy territoryUnless someone made a bonkers offer I wouldn't be selling him.
Define bonkers? 50m? 60m?
Post by: OCD on May 25, 2023, 09:12:38 PM
Post by: not3bad on May 25, 2023, 10:25:00 PM
Post by: john e on May 25, 2023, 10:32:53 PM
One billion dollars.
Okay there Michelle Mone
Post by: brontebilly on May 26, 2023, 09:44:07 PM
Phillips is the one for me, I just don't get it at all. There must be a dozen players that can do what he does (or actually doesn't do anymore). He has never been a good enough footballer to earn a place without playing.
Gallagher has looked a pub league standard player this season.
Post by: Footy-Vill on June 09, 2023, 11:31:03 AM
Fantastic achievement, and if he hadn't missed penalties and had some very good chances, he may have made 20!
Emery has made a huge difference since he arrived.
Watkins had some pretty amazing finishing, I especially enjoyed being able to see his goal against Chelsea away live.
He had a terrific run of consistency in his form and goals, and it was also encouraging to see how well he assists teammates. Our number 11 has shown some excellent football insight in playing the number 9!
Post by: Dogtanian on June 09, 2023, 11:34:29 AM
Post by: OCD on June 09, 2023, 11:40:16 AM
Post by: Dogtanian on June 09, 2023, 12:15:26 PM
Hopefully we'll have a new regular penalty taker by the time the season starts. Watkins doesn't have the mindset for it. The pressure of taking a penalty in front of the Kop in a game that was going to have a big impact on whether we qualified in Europe or not, was too much for him.
Probably, though with all these cups we are going after, we need a strong suite of ice cold penalty buriers!
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on June 09, 2023, 12:52:55 PM
Post by: john2710 on June 09, 2023, 01:21:43 PM
Pedro Gonçalves knows how to take a penalty.
So does Marvellous Nakamba
Post by: Drummond on June 09, 2023, 06:10:27 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on July 15, 2023, 04:27:55 PM
Well done Watkins.
Post by: Dogtanian on July 15, 2023, 06:13:51 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 15, 2023, 06:18:32 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 15, 2023, 07:26:16 PM
Post by: OCD on July 15, 2023, 07:28:51 PM
Post by: Goldenballs on July 16, 2023, 08:11:43 AM
Post by: Hookeysmith on July 16, 2023, 09:41:57 AM
Post by: Dogtanian on July 16, 2023, 03:28:20 PM
Has there been any progress on his new contract? When does his current one end?
He’s signed up till summer 2025. They’ve typically been renewing players with two years let, so makes sense.
Post by: eamonn on July 16, 2023, 03:44:27 PM
Doesn't give me confidence when there's something meaningful at stake, real pressure penalties like the one at Anfield in front of the Kop when every point counted for a place in Europe.
Yeah, alright, you made that same point a handful of posts up the page! He's not great at them and he probably won't be our regular taker going forward.
Post by: OCD on July 16, 2023, 08:45:42 PM
Doesn't give me confidence when there's something meaningful at stake, real pressure penalties like the one at Anfield in front of the Kop when every point counted for a place in Europe.
Yeah, alright, you made that same point a handful of posts up the page! He's not great at them and he probably won't be our regular taker going forward.
A few months ago. I've not read back any posts from previous days.
Post by: sid1964 on July 17, 2023, 06:41:20 AM
As he is a London boy, you would expect him to be very interested in a move to them.
Post by: paul_e on July 17, 2023, 07:19:31 AM
if Kane leaves Spurs, it will be interesting to see if they make a move for Watkins
As he is a London boy, you would expect him to be very interested in a move to them.
He's not a London boy, he's from Devon.
Post by: Dogtanian on July 17, 2023, 08:11:19 AM
if Kane leaves Spurs, it will be interesting to see if they make a move for Watkins
As he is a London boy, you would expect him to be very interested in a move to them.
He's not a London boy, he's from Devon.
Isn't he and his family also Arsenal fans? Or am I misremembering.
Post by: frank black on July 17, 2023, 08:14:17 AM
if Kane leaves Spurs, it will be interesting to see if they make a move for Watkins
As he is a London boy, you would expect him to be very interested in a move to them.
He's not a London boy, he's from Devon.
Isn't he and his family also Arsenal fans? Or am I misremembering.
Yep
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 17, 2023, 09:43:32 AM
if Kane leaves Spurs, it will be interesting to see if they make a move for Watkins
As he is a London boy, you would expect him to be very interested in a move to them.
He's not a London boy, he's from Devon.
Isn't he and his family also Arsenal fans? Or am I misremembering.
Yep
He’s an Arsenal fan too. I know it means little to a pro’ but really, would he want to piss off friends and family? Don’t think so.
Anyway, this is his first chance at European football which he’ll want to be part of. I suppose if Spurs double his wages he might view it all differently. Can’t see Levy doing anything like that.
Post by: Dogtanian on July 17, 2023, 09:45:50 AM
Post by: Risso on July 17, 2023, 10:00:32 AM
Post by: OCD on July 17, 2023, 11:20:15 AM
if Kane leaves Spurs, it will be interesting to see if they make a move for Watkins
This is my fear as to why he hasn't signed a new contract yet.
Post by: eamonn on July 17, 2023, 05:19:41 PM
To get him off us they'd have to pay the English player, Premier League supplement and I reckon we'd be demanding £80m. I like Ollie but he's not 80% as good as Kane.
Kane would be priced higher if he had more than a year left on his deal.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 17, 2023, 06:02:11 PM
Yeah, I don't think he'd turn down Spurts purely on his own allegiance, but it's just the icing on the cake of a long list of reasons not to join them at the minute.
Yeah, plus it would make it a long trek for Matty Cash when he pops round for Sunday lunch.
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 17, 2023, 09:10:31 PM
Post by: Villafirst on July 23, 2023, 05:20:56 AM
Post by: Hookeysmith on July 31, 2023, 01:51:00 PM
missed 2 sitters (well chances a decent striker should be getting) and a very good half chance.
Only place in the team (2nd GK apart) where we need to improve on - not sure we will this window though which is a shame.
Get a top striker in and it would be the best window we have had - probably ever
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 31, 2023, 02:07:12 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 31, 2023, 02:12:11 PM
I'm too lazy to check for sure but at a guess over the last 3 seasons the only players to have scored more PL goals than Ollie are Kane, Son and Salah. It's easy for us to want better, but probably not that easy to find a player that actually is.There seems to be a dearth of centre forwards, Manure are paying silly money for someone with a handful of games to replace Van Carthorse, Chelsea don't have one and you could argue that Arsenal don't either, so better than Watkins is a pretty tall order.
I just hope that Archer is the answer but that is far from a certainty.
Post by: OCD on July 31, 2023, 02:12:18 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2023, 02:13:21 PM
I'm too lazy to check for sure but at a guess over the last 3 seasons the only players to have scored more PL goals than Ollie are Kane, Son and Salah. It's easy for us to want better, but probably not that easy to find a player that actually is.
That's about where I am with it. I'm all for us giving it a go and bringing another forward in if Emery wants to but I don't think it would be easy to find someone to genuinely challenge for his place.
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2023, 02:46:58 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 31, 2023, 02:52:26 PM
Not really comparing the two, and I suspect we look at him with rose tinted glasses now, but John Carew, despite being brilliant for us, had it in his locker to be much better still.
As Woodhall pointed at many times back in the day, though, if he'd managed to produce regularly what he was capable of, he wouldn't have been playing for us in the first place.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 31, 2023, 02:55:53 PM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 31, 2023, 02:59:06 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 31, 2023, 03:00:00 PM
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2023, 03:02:53 PM
I used 3 years as that's how long he's been a PL player. So comparing him to his peers in that time seems logical.
Well it show's that he's consistent and rarely injured. But it misses facts like Ivan Toney has outscored him in the last two years, or that Callum Wilson has scored almost the same number of goals in 25% fewer games.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 31, 2023, 03:05:51 PM
I used 3 years as that's how long he's been a PL player. So comparing him to his peers in that time seems logical.
Well it show's that he's consistent and rarely injured. But it misses facts like Ivan Toney has outscored him in the last two years, or that Callum Wilson has scored almost the same number of goals in 25% fewer games.
Ollie had a year of Gerrard in that time, so it all evens out.
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2023, 03:08:46 PM
Post by: danno on July 31, 2023, 03:09:14 PM
That’s before you consider that our new signings might make us more effective at producing chances for him.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 31, 2023, 03:22:36 PM
Post by: Baldy on July 31, 2023, 03:28:06 PM
Said it 6 months ago, let's put a massive bid in for Harry Kane. Let everyone know, that we have really arrived!! Harry is brainy enough to know he will score more goals at the villa than Spuds, and will have a better chance of winning silverware and breaking Shearer's record.
Might sell to us instead of Bayern. Okay, we might have to sell some peripheral players, but so be it.
Post by: Anthenagin on July 31, 2023, 03:31:08 PM
Post by: Monty on July 31, 2023, 03:32:00 PM
Tottenham Hotspuds still think we are little Aston Villa, not a serious threat.
Said it 6 months ago, let's put a massive bid in for Harry Kane. Let everyone know, that we have really arrived!! Harry is brainy enough to know he will score more goals at the villa than Spuds, and will have a better chance of winning silverware and breaking Shearer's record.
Might sell to us instead of Bayern. Okay, we might have to sell some peripheral players, but so be it.
Think maybe we should all have a valium.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 31, 2023, 03:35:02 PM
Post by: Olneythelonely on July 31, 2023, 03:38:19 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 31, 2023, 03:44:25 PM
I used 3 years as that's how long he's been a PL player. So comparing him to his peers in that time seems logical.
Well it show's that he's consistent and rarely injured. But it misses facts like Ivan Toney has outscored him in the last two years, or that Callum Wilson has scored almost the same number of goals in 25% fewer games.
Ollie had a year of Gerrard in that time, so it all evens out.
Wilson had a year and a half of Steve Bruce.
The problem with Watkins is he's brilliant at finding the space, more likely than not in the right place but technically he's generally poor. His first touch pretty much always needs a second. It's not like he doesn't get the service. I'd sell him this window for as much as we can get (£60m?) and buy Gonçalo Ramos (£80m) from Benfica. He's a footballing Ollie Watkins. Net cost would be around £20m. Somebody is preparing a bid for Ramos, I'd love it to be us.
Santiago Giménez of Feyenoord , who Benfica are lining up to replace Ramos, would be a cheaper option if Unai doesn't fancy Archer as back up.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 31, 2023, 03:48:43 PM
Why stop there? Let’s get Haaland.
The valium will be fine for now.
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2023, 03:52:43 PM
I think the comparison with Toney, while understandable, is partly unfair because Toney gets a lot of goals with penalties. Whereas Ollie doesn’t. I think he will get closer to 20 this season under Unai. Granted though he is frustrating, he needs to be more consistent because he tends to have fallow patches where’s a great striker like Kane scores most matches.
Penalty taking is an important skill though, and even there Ollie is really hit and miss. If you take Toney's penalties off his total last season, he'd still have scored 14, just one behind Watkins anyway.
Post by: Drummond on July 31, 2023, 04:25:32 PM
Yes he misses some, but every player does.
Post by: Richard on July 31, 2023, 04:51:35 PM
He does just fine for us. He's part of a team that was only behind Man City in the time since Emery took over and played a vital part in it.
Yes he misses some, but every player does.
This with bells on, I just don't get the negativity around him, he's fine getting 15 or so every season if the others chip in more.
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2023, 04:54:17 PM
He does just fine for us. He's part of a team that was only behind Man City in the time since Emery took over and played a vital part in it.
Yes he misses some, but every player does.
He misses more than he should though, that's the issue.
Post by: AV84 on July 31, 2023, 04:58:41 PM
I mentioned it during the Brentford game but last season our next highest scorer after Watkins was Luiz with 5 goals. If Diaby (as he seems most likely) even only scored a goal every 3rd match, he'd add 12 in a season.
I know a strikers main purpose is to score goals, but I'd rather have more contributions from elsewhere on the pitch than be a team that relies on one player to score all our goals.
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2023, 05:06:36 PM
Post by: AV84 on July 31, 2023, 05:14:04 PM
Post by: Drummond on July 31, 2023, 05:15:46 PM
He does just fine for us. He's part of a team that was only behind Man City in the time since Emery took over and played a vital part in it.
Yes he misses some, but every player does.
He misses more than he should though, that's the issue.
Perhaps, but he doesn't cost us gamest, and his goal return is still pretty good. It's not just about goals for him though, he creates space and opportunities for others.
There just aren't players out there that offer as much to the team as he does, that get close to that number of goals (barring Haaland, Kane and Salah of course, but we may have our own versions of that Liverpool 3 of Firmino Salah and Mane coming with Watkins, Diaby and *insert preferred option here.
Post by: AV84 on July 31, 2023, 05:18:15 PM
Post by: danno on July 31, 2023, 05:22:52 PM
[img width= height= alt=IMG-8718" border="0]https://i.ibb.co/C7hZh6w/IMG-8718.jpg[/img]
His minutes per goal is high, not helped by his run of one goal in eleven under that blockhead Gerrard.
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2023, 05:31:51 PM
He does just fine for us. He's part of a team that was only behind Man City in the time since Emery took over and played a vital part in it.
Yes he misses some, but every player does.
He misses more than he should though, that's the issue.
This is where the ever loved xG comes in useful. Over his 3 seasons he's scored 40 and has an xG of closer to 45 which backs up the idea that his finishing lets him down. Last season it was 15G/~17.5xG.
Taking this bit out because Danno has given the same stats and I just noticed I gave them with more than just league games.
Both together suggests that, statistically, he hits too many straight at the keeper and misses the odd sitter. That lines up with the eyeball test for me as well.
Post by: SamTheMouse on July 31, 2023, 07:40:30 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 31, 2023, 07:44:54 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2023, 08:33:35 PM
Yup, as Paul mentioned above, Watkins suffers from Elghazitas, constantly shooting straight at the keeper.
I mean I didn't say constantly...
(https://i.ibb.co/Jp3st5g/Screenshot-2023-07-31-202557.png) (https://ibb.co/Jp3st5g)
The problem is the 8-10 bigger pins on there, those are the good chances that were saved by the keeper. that's about 1 in 9-10 over the season where he gave the keeper a chance. Add in a few that hit the woodwork and a handful where he didn't hit the target but should've and I can understand the complaints about him needing too many chances but his conversion rate does hold up so I'm not sure what the problem is really. He does let himself down 1on1 though, that would be the 1 criticism I think is fair, and was highlighted again yesterday.
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 31, 2023, 08:45:57 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 31, 2023, 08:46:57 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 31, 2023, 10:25:25 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 31, 2023, 10:52:12 PM
He is not a natural finisher and you can not train that into someone.
He just hasn't got that cuteness in and around the box that the genuinely top class strikers have. It would cost us a small fortune to bring someone at the next level in though and we probably would struggle to attract that level of striker anyway.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 31, 2023, 11:05:01 PM
It would cost us a small fortune to bring someone at the next level in though and we probably would struggle to attract that level of striker anyway.
€20m is my guestimate. Risky business? Absolutely but then I'm not the one that's spent 6 months studying potential replacements.
I wouldn't be against him staying if we had nothing to play for next season and I believe he'll be gone in the next 12 months, assuming he signs a new contract. Why not cash in now, his value will never be so high?
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 31, 2023, 11:12:29 PM
Come to think of it, we scored 8 in the US, and only one came from a striker. 5 from midfield, and 2 from defenders.
You must be counting Diaby as a midfielder. I don’t think he is, especially when SJM or JPB have been playing as the wide-right midfielder.
Post by: AV84 on July 31, 2023, 11:12:35 PM
Seems odd though that we haven't really been seriously linked with anyone else in that position. Maybe like back-up goalie, it's difficult to get someone who meets the requirements and isn't an extortionate price.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 31, 2023, 11:22:41 PM
It would cost us a small fortune to bring someone at the next level in though and we probably would struggle to attract that level of striker anyway.
€20m is my guestimate. Risky business? Absolutely but then I'm not the one that's spent 6 months studying potential replacements.
I wouldn't be against him staying if we had nothing to play for next season and I believe he'll be gone in the next 12 months, assuming he signs a new contract. Why not cash in now, his value will never be so high?
£20m? To get an established striker a level above Watkins then I think we would probably be looking at £60m+ given the premium that is on them.
In fairness, although it would be great to have someone like that come in, I think we could bring in an upcoming striker who will start as second choice, but with the potential to be better than Ollie Watkins in a couple of years.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 31, 2023, 11:24:06 PM
It would cost us a small fortune to bring someone at the next level in though and we probably would struggle to attract that level of striker anyway.
€20m is my guestimate. Risky business? Absolutely but then I'm not the one that's spent 6 months studying potential replacements.
I wouldn't be against him staying if we had nothing to play for next season and I believe he'll be gone in the next 12 months, assuming he signs a new contract. Why not cash in now, his value will never be so high?
£20m? To get an established striker a level above Watkins then I think we would probably be looking at £60m+ given the premium that is on them.
In fairness, although it would be great to have someone like that come in, I think we could bring in an upcoming striker who will start as second choice, but with the potential to be better than Ollie Watkins in a couple of years.
He’s talking about net, ie £20m more than what we’d get for OW.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 31, 2023, 11:34:54 PM
It would cost us a small fortune to bring someone at the next level in though and we probably would struggle to attract that level of striker anyway.
€20m is my guestimate. Risky business? Absolutely but then I'm not the one that's spent 6 months studying potential replacements.
I wouldn't be against him staying if we had nothing to play for next season and I believe he'll be gone in the next 12 months, assuming he signs a new contract. Why not cash in now, his value will never be so high?
£20m? To get an established striker a level above Watkins then I think we would probably be looking at £60m+ given the premium that is on them.
In fairness, although it would be great to have someone like that come in, I think we could bring in an upcoming striker who will start as second choice, but with the potential to be better than Ollie Watkins in a couple of years.
He’s talking about net, ie £20m more than what we’d get for OW.
Ah right. Would say that figure is about right then. I think we would struggle to attract someone of that kind of profile anyway.
Post by: AV84 on July 31, 2023, 11:47:07 PM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on August 01, 2023, 12:02:16 AM
I can't see us getting rid of Watkins. Even if we splashed out and managed to get someone "better", we'd still be in the situation of only having one experienced striker, and an injury away from having to rely on Archer and Durán.
Probably depends on whether or not Watkins is stalling on his new contract.
Post by: AV84 on August 01, 2023, 12:07:59 AM
I can't see us getting rid of Watkins. Even if we splashed out and managed to get someone "better", we'd still be in the situation of only having one experienced striker, and an injury away from having to rely on Archer and Durán.
Probably depends on whether or not Watkins is stalling on his new contract.
Fair point. I'll rephrase it. I don't think the first choice plan would be to just swap out Watkins for someone else.
Post by: paul_e on August 01, 2023, 12:30:47 AM
Post by: Drummond on August 01, 2023, 12:36:47 AM
I don't think we'd replace him very easily at all.
So we won't, he'll stay, score a heap and some other poor sod will be labelled the weakest link.
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 01, 2023, 07:21:06 AM
I think selling a striker who will probably get 15ish next season and using the funds to get someone in the hope that they might settle immediately and get 20 is about the riskiest idea I've ever seen anyone put forward on here. If Watkins won't sign an new deal and we get a big offer then that's a different story but pushing him out would be insanity.More dangerous than signing Benteke or Traore?
Post by: Ian. on August 01, 2023, 07:25:26 AM
I think selling a striker who will probably get 15ish next season and using the funds to get someone in the hope that they might settle immediately and get 20 is about the riskiest idea I've ever seen anyone put forward on here. If Watkins won't sign an new deal and we get a big offer then that's a different story but pushing him out would be insanity.
Yep, can’t argue with this.
Post by: Mister E on August 01, 2023, 07:51:03 AM
... I think we could bring in an upcoming striker who will start as second choice, but with the potential to be better than Ollie Watkins in a couple of years.Isn't that person Archer? or Duran?
I can see why they might be considering Tammy Abraham: not to be a replacement for Watkins but someone who could share the lone-striker role with him through the 50-odd games we might have this season, whilst allowing Archer and Duran to get walk-on parts in the final 30 minutes of games.
2 alternating main strikers, two alternating apprentices; all 4 with space to grow and develop.
Sounds plausible.
Post by: Clampy on August 01, 2023, 07:59:42 AM
I think selling a striker who will probably get 15ish next season and using the funds to get someone in the hope that they might settle immediately and get 20 is about the riskiest idea I've ever seen anyone put forward on here. If Watkins won't sign an new deal and we get a big offer then that's a different story but pushing him out would be insanity.More dangerous than signing Benteke or Traore?
Not every signing comes off like that though and Benteke was 12 years ago.
I think we need to bring in someone else to help with the long season ahead. Archer and Duran might do it but it would be a risk.
Post by: Dave on August 01, 2023, 08:39:53 AM
I think selling a striker who will probably get 15ish next season and using the funds to get someone in the hope that they might settle immediately and get 20 is about the riskiest idea I've ever seen anyone put forward on here. If Watkins won't sign an new deal and we get a big offer then that's a different story but pushing him out would be insanity.More dangerous than signing Benteke or Traore?
Adding Benteke or Traore to our current squad wouldn't be dangerous.
Pointless, perhaps. But not dangerous.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on August 01, 2023, 12:13:52 PM
I think selling a striker who will probably get 15ish next season and using the funds to get someone in the hope that they might settle immediately and get 20 is about the riskiest idea I've ever seen anyone put forward on here. If Watkins won't sign an new deal and we get a big offer then that's a different story but pushing him out would be insanity.
I'd agree with you Paul if we didn't have a team that create lots of opportunities for the striker. This season hopefully it will be even more. It's why I'd go for Ramos, he's very similar to Watkins in many ways but technically far superior.
Post by: Hookeysmith on August 01, 2023, 01:54:10 PM
All we have are 2 (very decent) kids who are pretty unproven at the top level.
I do not know much about Ferran Torres but i assume he is a similar player to Watkins who can run the whole frontline and has an eye for goal - that would bring real pressure to be on your game
Post by: Risso on August 01, 2023, 01:57:33 PM
Post by: brontebilly on August 02, 2023, 11:09:38 AM
Post by: Clampy on August 02, 2023, 11:26:04 AM
Post by: OCD on August 02, 2023, 11:49:08 AM
All strikers miss chances that they should be taking. You just have enough creativity in your side, that if they score a reasonable percentage of them they score enough goals.
I think sometimes strikers are a bit rusty pre-season too. It used to be September before Kane would score. I think last season was the first time he's scored in August.
Post by: Risso on August 02, 2023, 11:57:50 AM
It looks to me like Diaby will play as a 10, off Watkins which takes care of the concerns over the defensive side to his game.
All strikers miss chances that they should be taking. You just have enough creativity in your side, that if they score a reasonable percentage of them they score enough goals.
I think sometimes strikers are a bit rusty pre-season too. It used to be September before Kane would score. I think last season was the first time he's scored in August.
That last bit is very obviously not true, seeing as he scored two against us first game back in the Premier League, in August!
Post by: Drummond on August 02, 2023, 12:00:07 PM
It looks to me like Diaby will play as a 10, off Watkins which takes care of the concerns over the defensive side to his game.
All strikers miss chances that they should be taking. You just have enough creativity in your side, that if they score a reasonable percentage of them they score enough goals.
I think sometimes strikers are a bit rusty pre-season too. It used to be September before Kane would score. I think last season was the first time he's scored in August.
That last bit is very obviously not true, seeing as he scored two against us first game back in the Premier League, in August!
I think we're the exception to prove every rule.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on August 02, 2023, 12:11:27 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 02, 2023, 12:13:46 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 02, 2023, 12:18:37 PM
Post by: Clampy on August 02, 2023, 12:21:06 PM
Post by: OCD on August 02, 2023, 12:21:59 PM
I have a feeling Spurs might come in for him if Kane goes this month.
Expect an offer of Skipp + £2m then.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 02, 2023, 12:23:43 PM
Why would he go to Spurs? A team not in Europe, less chance than us of getting a CL spot. He doesn’t need them to boost his international chances. We have a better squad and manager. We can offer him every bit as good a contract as they can. He’s got a young family settled in the area.
I don't know. It definitely would boost his international chances, because playing for Spurs has almost always guaranteed England call-ups (particularly compared to playing for us). He might like London. They might offer him more money than we want to. Maybe he doesn't like being around his young family. He lives around the corner from my sister at the minute and I can confirm it's properly boring round there. Also we might want to take the money they'd offer.
Any number of reasons really.
Post by: john e on August 02, 2023, 12:23:47 PM
he got 15 last season where are you going to bring someone in who’s going to get 5-10 more
just not happening
Archer is a better finisher but can he do the rest of the stuff at the moment
Let’s hope we can bring through one of the younger players because there’s a massive drop in striker talent around at the mo
Post by: Smithy on August 02, 2023, 02:27:43 PM
This idea that we "need" a 20+ goal a season striker is a myth. Would it be nice? Oh, absolutely. Can we be successful without one? Definitely. Haaland is phenomenon, but City actually scored five goals fewer this past season than they did the one before, when they won the league despite their top scorer only getting 15, and only three players in the entire squad getting into double figures.
The game has evolved from having a poacher getting on the end of things, and though it would be GREAT to have one in the side who can snap up half-chances for fun, what's more important is how many goals we get as a team. I'd much rather see us get 70+ goals next season, than I would see our striker get 20+. If the striker Unai chooses to play helps us get to 70 goals in the season, despite only scoring 10-15 himself, I'll be delighted.
I absolutely think we still need some top class competition for Ollie, but I really don't think it needs to be a 20+ goal machine for us to be successful.
Post by: Risso on August 02, 2023, 02:49:01 PM
In the last three seasons, only five players IN TOTAL have managed to get 20 league goals at least once. Haaland, Kane, Son, Salah and Toney (who got 20 last season - and that included SIX pens so he scrapes into the list).
This idea that we "need" a 20+ goal a season striker is a myth. Would it be nice? Oh, absolutely. Can we be successful without one? Definitely. Haaland is phenomenon, but City actually scored five goals fewer this past season than they did the one before, when they won the league despite their top scorer only getting 15, and only three players in the entire squad getting into double figures.
The game has evolved from having a poacher getting on the end of things, and though it would be GREAT to have one in the side who can snap up half-chances for fun, what's more important is how many goals we get as a team. I'd much rather see us get 70+ goals next season, than I would see our striker get 20+. If the striker Unai chooses to play helps us get to 70 goals in the season, despite only scoring 10-15 himself, I'll be delighted.
I absolutely think we still need some top class competition for Ollie, but I really don't think it needs to be a 20+ goal machine for us to be successful.
We just need to score more goals. You're right that it doesn't matter as such where they come from, but if you add 5 goals onto Ollie's total last season on a random basis, then it could easily have yielded a few more points. Similarly our too attacking back ups to Ollie in Bailey and Buendia got 9 between them, which just isn't enough, although the signing of Diaby should help this. McGinn's form improved a lot, but he still doesn't score enough goals considering how attack-minded he is.
I'd say this season we need 15+ from Ollie, 10 from Diaby, 6 from Luiz (last season's total), similar from McGinn, Ramsey and Tielemans, and a few more from the defenders from set pieces. Do that and we should be looking top 6 at a minimum, assuming the defence stays as tight as it has been, which is obviously the other half of the equation.
Post by: paul_e on August 02, 2023, 03:00:38 PM
In the last three seasons, only five players IN TOTAL have managed to get 20 league goals at least once. Haaland, Kane, Son, Salah and Toney (who got 20 last season - and that included SIX pens so he scrapes into the list).
This idea that we "need" a 20+ goal a season striker is a myth. Would it be nice? Oh, absolutely. Can we be successful without one? Definitely. Haaland is phenomenon, but City actually scored five goals fewer this past season than they did the one before, when they won the league despite their top scorer only getting 15, and only three players in the entire squad getting into double figures.
The game has evolved from having a poacher getting on the end of things, and though it would be GREAT to have one in the side who can snap up half-chances for fun, what's more important is how many goals we get as a team. I'd much rather see us get 70+ goals next season, than I would see our striker get 20+. If the striker Unai chooses to play helps us get to 70 goals in the season, despite only scoring 10-15 himself, I'll be delighted.
I absolutely think we still need some top class competition for Ollie, but I really don't think it needs to be a 20+ goal machine for us to be successful.
We just need to score more goals. You're right that it doesn't matter as such where they come from, but if you add 5 goals onto Ollie's total last season on a random basis, then it could easily have yielded a few more points. Similarly our too attacking back ups to Ollie in Bailey and Buendia got 9 between them, which just isn't enough, although the signing of Diaby should help this. McGinn's form improved a lot, but he still doesn't score enough goals considering how attack-minded he is.
I'd say this season we need 15+ from Ollie, 10 from Diaby, 6 from Luiz (last season's total), similar from McGinn, Ramsey and Tielemans, and a few more from the defenders from set pieces. Do that and we should be looking top 6 at a minimum, assuming the defence stays as tight as it has been, which is obviously the other half of the equation.
For me the problems last season were that we didn't score enough from Defence and the support strikers/wingers.
Post by: Flin5tone on August 02, 2023, 03:05:26 PM
The two most important positions that needed strengthening *striker competition for Ollie. * GK no.2 both look like they won't be looked at . Ridiculous
Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 02, 2023, 03:22:49 PM
Post by: Dick Edwards on August 02, 2023, 03:31:34 PM
Why would he go to Spurs? A team not in Europe, less chance than us of getting a CL spot or Europa spot at the end of this season. He doesn’t need them to boost his international chances. We have a better squad and manager. We can offer him every bit as good a contract as they can. He’s got a young family settled in the area.
This.
And the small matter that Levy wouldn't want to pay the money required to even get our attention.
Post by: danno on August 02, 2023, 03:31:40 PM
Yep, we should demand COMPO.
Think Foggy or Cleggy would be better between the sticks tbh.
Post by: maidstonevillain on August 02, 2023, 03:34:39 PM
Yep, we should demand COMPO.
Think Foggy or Cleggy would be better between the sticks tbh.
I was thinking this was descending into the normal Summer Whine.
Post by: Dante Lavelli on August 02, 2023, 04:01:30 PM
Levy will probably keep the cash though as they’ll run out of time to spend it.
Post by: Mister E on August 02, 2023, 04:08:08 PM
Spurs fans I’ve spoken to think Richarlison will be given the chance to fill any Kane void. When signed he was brazils main striker so not *that* stupid especially if the Kane money can be spent elsewhere.God, I hope that's true; Richarlison is really not a leading striker ...
Levy will probably keep the cash though as they’ll run out of time to spend it.
Post by: eamonn on August 02, 2023, 05:00:49 PM
Post by: DrGonzo on August 03, 2023, 10:04:53 PM
Post by: Risso on August 03, 2023, 10:14:20 PM
Post by: Richard on August 03, 2023, 10:26:48 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 04, 2023, 12:39:44 AM
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 04, 2023, 12:59:52 AM
We’ve gone from hoofers at the end of Dean Smith, all the way through that wanker who came after to becoming technically superb with mostly the same players.
Post by: Bad English on August 04, 2023, 07:42:53 AM
A quick Google comes up with Tielemans scoring 24 pens out of 29 taken.Ollie's stats are scored 4, missed 5. Doesn't include friendlies or US tournaments.
44.44% conversion rate.
Tielemans has a 77,27% conversion rate.
Post by: ldavfc4eva on August 04, 2023, 08:01:41 AM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 04, 2023, 08:17:10 AM
Post by: 85kota on August 04, 2023, 08:21:17 AM
Post by: Risso on August 04, 2023, 08:21:53 AM
Scoring 4 of 9 is an awful stat.
And while friendly ones like last night don't count, they just reinforce the view that he takes a terrible penalty.
So just take them off him. To be fair to him, just like the Liverpool game, he didn't let it get him down, and he scored a cracking goal last night. But take penalties off him, it's for the best.
Post by: AV84 on August 04, 2023, 08:28:46 AM
Post by: Chris Smith on August 04, 2023, 08:33:21 AM
Last night Buendia had the ball and was standing at the penalty spot before Wartkins went over and took it. I wonder was he just being helpful and getting the ball ready, or had he been planning on taking it?
That seems the standard approach for us now, somebody to be the focus of all the attention from the defenders and keeper while the taker stays out of it.
Watkins is not the best penalty taker but to replace him it needs someone else to want to do it, it’s not something you can force on a player.
Post by: aj2k77 on August 04, 2023, 10:10:01 AM
Post by: Drummond on August 04, 2023, 10:13:14 AM
Last night Buendia had the ball and was standing at the penalty spot before Wartkins went over and took it. I wonder was he just being helpful and getting the ball ready, or had he been planning on taking it?
That seems the standard approach for us now, somebody to be the focus of all the attention from the defenders and keeper while the taker stays out of it.
Watkins is not the best penalty taker but to replace him it needs someone else to want to do it, it’s not something you can force on a player.
Watkins is the only guaranteed outfield starter right now too, and until that changes it's hard to pin someone else down to have the responsibility.
Post by: chrisw1 on August 04, 2023, 10:15:21 AM
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on August 04, 2023, 11:32:55 AM
Though it has to be getting close to the point where they think about a change or at least a back-up option. UTV.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on August 04, 2023, 11:39:36 AM
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on August 04, 2023, 11:48:36 AM
You're certainly right that if a pen goes in, then it is rated as 'good', even when they are scuffed or poorly struck.
Post by: LeeB on August 04, 2023, 12:06:23 PM
Post by: eamonn on August 04, 2023, 01:49:06 PM
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on August 04, 2023, 01:51:02 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 04, 2023, 02:26:47 PM
Penalties can be a weird thing, some love taking them some hate them. When I was a lot younger a mate of mine who was a striker and played some decent non league hated them with a passion. He'd have been 11th in a shootout if he had the choice. Me, I loved them, give me a penalty with everything on the line and i'd have been in my element and would expect to score. But he was a much better player and goalscorer than me in open play.
Post by: DB on August 04, 2023, 02:46:19 PM
Post by: RamboandBruno on August 04, 2023, 03:45:33 PM
I reckon there should be a list of who are considered the best penalty takers, whoever is on the pitch and highest in the list takes it. So for example, Tielemans is #1 and on the pitch, he takes it. If he isn't on the pitch then it's the second name on the list. Ollie should be a few names down the list.
Penalties can be a weird thing, some love taking them some hate them. When I was a lot younger a mate of mine who was a striker and played some decent non league hated them with a passion. He'd have been 11th in a shootout if he had the choice. Me, I loved them, give me a penalty with everything on the line and i'd have been in my element and would expect to score. But he was a much better player and goalscorer than me in open play.
Wasn’t it the case Kenny Dalglish never wanted to take a penalty??
Post by: DrGonzo on August 04, 2023, 05:40:54 PM
Blimey, talk about glass half-empty. He played great last night and scored a cracking goal. OK, he missed a pen, just give it to someone else.
Haha, I feel a little guilty, I was making the point that the penalty was awful and that his next invovlement was superb.
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on August 05, 2023, 03:10:42 PM
Blimey, talk about glass half-empty. He played great last night and scored a cracking goal. OK, he missed a pen, just give it to someone else.
Which is what is being discussed, rightly.
Post by: Dogtanian on August 06, 2023, 09:47:07 PM
I reckon he’s going to have a great season.
Post by: Astnor on August 06, 2023, 10:02:57 PM
We’ve played six pre-season games and he’s scored 4 goals. He could have had a few more too.Yep, he looks ready. Goal against Lazio and Valencia where great. I did notice in his run up to the goal in Spain that he gets up his speed really fast this - that he like this gets half a meter on the CB s seems to be one of his assets.
I reckon he’s going to have a great season.
Post by: not3bad on August 07, 2023, 12:29:22 AM
Post by: dekko on August 07, 2023, 07:27:01 AM
Watkins will have a lot of ammunition next season I think. Yes he'll miss a few, but he'll score a shitload too, because he's natural goal scorer. Get ready.
15 - 20 league goals is my guess
Post by: LeeB on August 07, 2023, 09:45:05 AM
Post by: VillaTim on August 12, 2023, 11:52:02 AM
Post by: danno on August 12, 2023, 11:54:50 AM
I wonder if Spurs will make a move for him now they need a striker and have £100m in the drawer. And i wonder if we'd listen ??
I think it’s more likely that they’ll try to muddle through until January and try and land Toney (whose contract expires next summer I believe) on the cheap.
Post by: AV84 on August 12, 2023, 11:55:28 AM
I wonder if Spurs will make a move for him now they need a striker and have £100m in the drawer. And i wonder if we'd listen ??
Can't see us entertaining any bids for Watkins unless we've got a world class striker waiting in the wings for an extra 50k a week in his wage packet.
Post by: paul_e on August 12, 2023, 11:58:18 AM
I wonder if Spurs will make a move for him now they need a striker and have £100m in the drawer. And i wonder if we'd listen ??
No chance. The owners have seen how disruptive it is to lose a player late in the window so the only way anyone goes out now is if they have a clause, Watkins won't have one because he wouldn't have had anything like enough 'power' in the negotiations when he joined.
The only concern is that he's not got a huge amount of time on his contract so if he won't sign a new one I could see him going in January, if we have a replacement, I don't think that's very likely though and I expect a new contract will be announced before long.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on August 12, 2023, 12:03:24 PM
Big season for Ollie Watkins, I'm hoping he can be more consistent rather than the feast or famine performances we've seen in the past. The fact no new contract appears to have been offered and/or signed puzzles me. He's very much teacher's pet with Emery so I assume we want to keep him, is he the one holding out?
Post by: AV84 on August 12, 2023, 12:08:55 PM
Post by: VillaTim on August 12, 2023, 12:16:08 PM
Aren't the Euros next summer? If I was Watkins and had ambition of playing for England I'd be sticking with the team that has just had a very stable and successful season under an extremely well respected manager.the problem is Southgate though and his love for players of the so called Sky6
Post by: Villan82 on August 12, 2023, 12:18:36 PM
You think Benteke was good? Well three seasons into his career with us Ollie Watkins is two goals shy of his total after three seasons (42 goals Benteke, 40 goals Watkins). He also works his socks off. Replacing him would take about £60m-£80m
Post by: AV84 on August 12, 2023, 12:24:55 PM
Aren't the Euros next summer? If I was Watkins and had ambition of playing for England I'd be sticking with the team that has just had a very stable and successful season under an extremely well respected manager.the problem is Southgate though and his love for players of the so called Sky6
Sky 6? That's Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, and Al Ettifaq.
Post by: paul_e on August 12, 2023, 12:28:56 PM
Our fans criminally under-rate ollie Watkins. He is one of the best strikers we have had in the past 3o years.
You think Benteke was good? Well three seasons into his career with us Ollie Watkins is two goals shy of his total after three seasons (42 goals Benteke, 40 goals Watkins). He also works his socks off. Replacing him would take about £60m-£80m
Benteke did miss a big chunk of one of those seasons though. Overall record (including cups, etc) Benteke is 49 in 102 and Watkins is 43 in 116. That's still a good record but it's not even close to what Benteke did, and I say that as someone who rates Watkins a lot higher than many.
Post by: charlatan on August 12, 2023, 12:36:27 PM
I reckon there should be a list of who are considered the best penalty takers, whoever is on the pitch and highest in the list takes it. So for example, Tielemans is #1 and on the pitch, he takes it. If he isn't on the pitch then it's the second name on the list. Ollie should be a few names down the list.Spot on
Post by: olaftab on August 12, 2023, 12:48:41 PM
I wonder if Spurs will make a move for him now they need a striker and have £100m in the drawer. And i wonder if we'd listen ??Ah...a typical Villa fans post, inviting doom and gloom onto to ourselves.
Post by: Steve67 on August 12, 2023, 01:29:12 PM
I wonder if Spurs will make a move for him now they need a striker and have £100m in the drawer. And i wonder if we'd listen ??Ah...a typical Villa fans post, inviting doom and gloom onto to ourselves.
A perfectly valid question. I’d hope we would tell them where to go. Arsenal fan Ollie Watkins to Tottenham? Nah!
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on August 12, 2023, 01:33:16 PM
Our fans criminally under-rate ollie Watkins. He is one of the best strikers we have had in the past 3o years.
You think Benteke was good? Well three seasons into his career with us Ollie Watkins is two goals shy of his total after three seasons (42 goals Benteke, 40 goals Watkins). He also works his socks off. Replacing him would take about £60m-£80m
Agree about the price and but let's not forget he'd scored 4 league goals up until the end of January last season. Feast or famine pretty much summed him up last season. It's why I think this is a really big season for him. He'll get plenty of quality service, all he has to do is put them away. Hit the ground running and I can see him scoring 25+ this season, I just wonder who's holding up his new contract?
Post by: brontebilly on August 12, 2023, 02:17:48 PM
It's a bit late now in the window to sell him when there's few opportunities to replace him. As mentioned previously I'd quite happily have cashed in and pocketed the money to spend on Gonçalo Ramos from Benfica, similar to Watkins but younger and technically better. Unfortunately he signed for PSG this week.
Big season for Ollie Watkins, I'm hoping he can be more consistent rather than the feast or famine performances we've seen in the past. The fact no new contract appears to have been offered and/or signed puzzles me. He's very much teacher's pet with Emery so I assume we want to keep him, is he the one holding out?
Watkins "famine" periods coincided with the disastrous signing of Danny Ings and the woeful efforts from Smith & Gerrard to accommodate them both. I struggle to understand criticism of Watkins really, scores a decent haul of goals, brings others into the play and works like a trooper.
Post by: Le Lapin on August 12, 2023, 02:58:34 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 20, 2023, 07:41:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 20, 2023, 07:47:58 PM
Post by: Risso on August 20, 2023, 08:06:52 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 20, 2023, 08:08:38 PM
Post by: Risso on August 20, 2023, 08:09:57 PM
It was but it isn’t always like that, which is more my point. He’s never going to be elite level, but he’s a good striker and when he’s in form he’s better than he was today. He’s comfortably good enough to play at the level we’re at at the moment.
We want to be higher than the level we're at though, surely, and to get there we'll need somebody a bit more consistent. It sounds a bit harsh after a 4-0 win, but he was far and away our worst player today.
Post by: Aldridge Villa on August 20, 2023, 08:12:25 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on August 20, 2023, 08:13:40 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 20, 2023, 08:14:00 PM
It was but it isn’t always like that, which is more my point. He’s never going to be elite level, but he’s a good striker and when he’s in form he’s better than he was today. He’s comfortably good enough to play at the level we’re at at the moment.
That's the thing though, he had an off day, and it happens to them all. But when, say, Coutinho or Kamara are having bad games (and they do, as we all know) they receive the ball like they know what they ought to do with it. It's second nature. When Watkins is off it he looks like a competition winner.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 20, 2023, 08:14:19 PM
It was but it isn’t always like that, which is more my point. He’s never going to be elite level, but he’s a good striker and when he’s in form he’s better than he was today. He’s comfortably good enough to play at the level we’re at at the moment.
We want to be higher than the level we're at though, surely, and to get there we'll need somebody a bit more consistent. It sounds a bit harsh after a 4-0 win, but he was far and away our worst player today.
He was, and if that is how he always plays then I’d agree but it isn’t. He’s better than he was today. Don’t get me wrong medium/long-term we’ll want to transition beyond him as an automatic starter, but we’re not at that point.
Post by: Risso on August 20, 2023, 08:16:01 PM
It was but it isn’t always like that, which is more my point. He’s never going to be elite level, but he’s a good striker and when he’s in form he’s better than he was today. He’s comfortably good enough to play at the level we’re at at the moment.
We want to be higher than the level we're at though, surely, and to get there we'll need somebody a bit more consistent. It sounds a bit harsh after a 4-0 win, but he was far and away our worst player today.
He was, and if that is how he always plays then I’d agree but it isn’t. He’s better than he was today. Don’t get me wrong medium/long-term we’ll want to transition beyond him as an automatic starter, but we’re not at that point.
As I said before though, to get to that point, you need better players.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 20, 2023, 08:19:57 PM
When he’s off it Ollie looks rough, but across a season he’ll deliver a good level and I reckon he’ll get near 20 league goals if he stays fit.
Post by: Aldridge Villa on August 20, 2023, 08:22:59 PM
Post by: pablo_picasso on August 20, 2023, 08:33:01 PM
His goals come in feast or famine levels of form & when he is shit, he really looks shit.
Still works hard, but I imagine we could get a lot of players in who would work hard, if thats all we are after.
Post by: Taylor on August 20, 2023, 08:33:35 PM
“By far and away our worst player”. Really? Do you keep a tally of this dubious accolade? Olly worked his nuts off today, and will score a load this season. I don’t know who this mythical striker is who we can get in to replace him, coz they are not easy to come by.It was but it isn’t always like that, which is more my point. He’s never going to be elite level, but he’s a good striker and when he’s in form he’s better than he was today. He’s comfortably good enough to play at the level we’re at at the moment.
We want to be higher than the level we're at though, surely, and to get there we'll need somebody a bit more consistent. It sounds a bit harsh after a 4-0 win, but he was far and away our worst player today.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 20, 2023, 08:35:40 PM
Post by: Risso on August 20, 2023, 08:36:43 PM
“By far and away our worst player”. Really? Do you keep a tally of this dubious accolade? Olly worked his nuts off today, and will score a load this season. I don’t know who this mythical striker is who we can get in to replace him, coz they are not easy to come by.It was but it isn’t always like that, which is more my point. He’s never going to be elite level, but he’s a good striker and when he’s in form he’s better than he was today. He’s comfortably good enough to play at the level we’re at at the moment.
We want to be higher than the level we're at though, surely, and to get there we'll need somebody a bit more consistent. It sounds a bit harsh after a 4-0 win, but he was far and away our worst player today.
I'm just giving my opinion on what I saw today. I've already said he ran all day, but as is quite often the case, his first touch and quality in front of goal were disctinctly lacking.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 20, 2023, 08:39:43 PM
Post by: pablo_picasso on August 20, 2023, 08:41:32 PM
“By far and away our worst player”. Really? Do you keep a tally of this dubious accolade? Olly worked his nuts off today, and will score a load this season. I don’t know who this mythical striker is who we can get in to replace him, coz they are not easy to come by.It was but it isn’t always like that, which is more my point. He’s never going to be elite level, but he’s a good striker and when he’s in form he’s better than he was today. He’s comfortably good enough to play at the level we’re at at the moment.
We want to be higher than the level we're at though, surely, and to get there we'll need somebody a bit more consistent. It sounds a bit harsh after a 4-0 win, but he was far and away our worst player today.
Jonathan David...
Why are replacement players for peoples favourites always "mythical"?
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 20, 2023, 08:57:03 PM
To move one as a club, we need better quality than Watkins as first choice. Backup, maybe. But not first choice.
His goals come in feast or famine levels of form & when he is shit, he really looks shit.
Still works hard, but I imagine we could get a lot of players in who would work hard, if thats all we are after.
Feast or famine is right. He's the striker equivalent of Dean Smith. And Dean Smith is right up there in terms of our managers in modern history, and I love him, but he ultimately wasn't equipped to take us to the top. Nor is Watkins.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 20, 2023, 09:04:57 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 20, 2023, 09:06:07 PM
But that’s reductive isn’t it? He doesn’t just work hard. He scores goals as well, and players that do both of those things or the latter to a consistently better level are high cost/probably playing in the Champions League.
Isak at Newcastle is, for me, significantly better than Watkins.
He cost twice as much.
Maybe that’s the key - spend more money, get a better player.
They signed him when they were nowhere near the champions league.
Diaby is a step in the right direction. If we can replace Watkins with a similarly costly and better player, we should do.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 20, 2023, 09:07:47 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on August 20, 2023, 09:08:33 PM
Post by: Risso on August 20, 2023, 09:09:39 PM
Yeah he’s one, like you say it took a significant sum and probably some promises of what was to come as well.
...like a better striker?
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 20, 2023, 09:09:46 PM
Benjamin Šeško
Is he the one who literally just joined Leipzig?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 20, 2023, 09:10:56 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 20, 2023, 09:12:40 PM
£60+m and £120k a week for a bloke that had scored 6 league goals the previous season. Time will tell if he was worth it but it shows that it's not an easy job signing a striker that can do an immediate job.
Yup.
Post by: AV84 on August 20, 2023, 09:14:22 PM
I think the Duran/Archer situation is more important. Seems Emery has made up his mind there, but whether they both stay, or just Duran, one of them needs to make the step up and be nearer Watkins quality wise.
Post by: N'ZMAV on August 20, 2023, 09:14:32 PM
he'll be a good singing next summer :)Benjamin Šeško
Is he the one who literally just joined Leipzig?
Post by: Risso on August 20, 2023, 09:15:25 PM
£60+m and £120k a week for a bloke that had scored 6 league goals the previous season. Time will tell if he was worth it but it shows that it's not an easy job signing a striker that can do an immediate job.
He did an immediate job for Newcastle though. 10 goals in 22 games.
Post by: VillaTim on August 20, 2023, 09:15:45 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 20, 2023, 09:19:01 PM
£60+m and £120k a week for a bloke that had scored 6 league goals the previous season. Time will tell if he was worth it but it shows that it's not an easy job signing a striker that can do an immediate job.
He did an immediate job for Newcastle though. 10 goals in 22 games.
I was on about the outlay on a bloke that had scored 6 league goals the previous season. I can imagine the reaction from a lot on here if we did that as it can go either way.
Post by: Steve67 on August 20, 2023, 09:19:52 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 20, 2023, 09:22:57 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 20, 2023, 09:27:23 PM
I wish we had Callum Wilson. Ollie's a willing runner and was great last season but if we want to finish higher, Ollie needs to be a back up to someone else. Ollie is a terrific player but we need to upgrade.
Wilson isn’t an upgrade on Ollie in my view. He’s a similar level, has different attributes, and a bad injury past.
Post by: Risso on August 20, 2023, 09:29:11 PM
I wish we had Callum Wilson. Ollie's a willing runner and was great last season but if we want to finish higher, Ollie needs to be a back up to someone else. Ollie is a terrific player but we need to upgrade.
Wilson isn’t an upgrade on Ollie in my view. He’s a similar level, has different attributes, and a bad injury past.
His goals to games ratio is miles better than Ollie's.
Post by: john2710 on August 20, 2023, 09:32:38 PM
Post by: Steve67 on August 20, 2023, 09:34:39 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 20, 2023, 09:35:23 PM
I wish we had Callum Wilson. Ollie's a willing runner and was great last season but if we want to finish higher, Ollie needs to be a back up to someone else. Ollie is a terrific player but we need to upgrade.
Wilson isn’t an upgrade on Ollie in my view. He’s a similar level, has different attributes, and a bad injury past.
His goals to games ratio is miles better than Ollie's.
And he is their second fiddle option.
Post by: AV84 on August 20, 2023, 10:24:02 PM
Post by: RamboandBruno on August 20, 2023, 10:54:24 PM
There is also a lot of talk about upgrading Watkins, when we really aren’t at the stage of having adequate competition for him, nevermind a replacement.
When he somehow cleared Torres header today and looked like he had done his hamstring in the process, there was an audible holding off breath on the holte. Durans a wild card and Archer looks no where near at the moment I’m afraid.
If Ollie can get between 15-18 goals this season, Diaby gets into double figures and Bailey, Dougie, McGinn and Zaniolo call add 5-8 goals, we’ll do better than last season, league wise.
Post by: SamTheMouse on August 20, 2023, 11:29:51 PM
Still a big fan though. There's a hell of a lot to be said for a hard worker.
Post by: Dante Lavelli on August 21, 2023, 06:52:31 AM
Post by: ozzjim on August 21, 2023, 06:58:21 AM
Post by: Somniloquism on August 21, 2023, 09:10:21 AM
Post by: Axl Rose on August 21, 2023, 09:15:39 AM
This is where Monchi and the scouting team earn their corn. Watkins is great, but he's not a top 4 striker.
If he's on form, he might me. Certainly during that spell last season, he was red hot.
Ollie is streaky, but I reckon he could definitely play with/off a top 4 striker.
I really like him, so I'm a bit biased, I know. He's so strong, and his hold up play has come on leaps and bounds since Emery joined us.
Post by: AV84 on August 21, 2023, 09:23:41 AM
The way a lot of teams seem to be playing at the moment the striker position doesn't seem to be as important. Unless you've got a Haaland or a Kane, but even Man City and Spurs without Kane are getting goals from elsewhere.
Post by: paul_e on August 21, 2023, 09:24:23 AM
As others have pointed out, if Watkins gets similar goal figures as normal, but we get the input from Diaby, Bailey, Ramsey and others, then we could be challenging. Last season Jesus scored less then Watkins as Arsenal's main striker, but they had 44 goals contributed by Saka, Martinelli and Odegaard. Our next top scorer after Watkins was Ings on 6 and he left after half a season. So I don't think replacing Watkins with someone who can score another 5-6 goals a season is as big as getting more goals from elsewhere, and Diaby is the first part of the puzzle for that.
Diaby, Zaniolo and Ramsey can all get in double figures, if Luiz, McGinn, Duran, Bailey and Couts can all get 4-5 as well we're looking at well over 60 with watkins as well. If we manage that we'll be competitive around the top 4.
Post by: chrisw1 on August 21, 2023, 09:32:38 AM
Well yes he was. By some distance I'd say.“By far and away our worst player”. Really? Do you keep a tally of this dubious accolade? Olly worked his nuts off today, and will score a load this season. I don’t know who this mythical striker is who we can get in to replace him, coz they are not easy to come by.It was but it isn’t always like that, which is more my point. He’s never going to be elite level, but he’s a good striker and when he’s in form he’s better than he was today. He’s comfortably good enough to play at the level we’re at at the moment.
We want to be higher than the level we're at though, surely, and to get there we'll need somebody a bit more consistent. It sounds a bit harsh after a 4-0 win, but he was far and away our worst player today.
And it's not easy, but Newcastle have managed it twice.
Post by: LeeB on August 21, 2023, 09:35:19 AM
Post by: Dante Lavelli on August 21, 2023, 09:38:39 AM
Putting the baggage and bans aside, what would folk think of buying Toney? Would cost a pretty penny but he is a genuine goalscorer.
Dead cert for spurs I reckon and he’s not good enough to justify a bidding war.
Post by: chrisw1 on August 21, 2023, 09:40:33 AM
Putting the baggage and bans aside, what would folk think of buying Toney? Would cost a pretty penny but he is a genuine goalscorer.Yep. But they'll want £100m.
Post by: paul_e on August 21, 2023, 09:51:38 AM
The problem with Watkins is that, like a few other players in our squad, he needs something to go for him to kick him up a level, that's why he's quite streaky as a goalscorer.
To address that we can either replace him with someone who adds a few extra goals to the team and doesn't weaken us in terms of off the ball running and work rate.
OR
We bring in players around him who can score more goals and reduce the burden on him to win us games.
We seem to have decided on the latter and 5 different goalscorers in 2 games is a big step in the right direction.
Post by: Exeter 77 on August 21, 2023, 09:52:24 AM
Post by: LeeB on August 21, 2023, 09:56:02 AM
Putting the baggage and bans aside, what would folk think of buying Toney? Would cost a pretty penny but he is a genuine goalscorer.Yep. But they'll want £100m.
I'd be tempted too, but yes it's going to take sonething along those lines and I'm not sure he's that much better, if better at all, in terms of their all round game.
I think the thing is, it's going to cost a lot of money even for a backup to Watkins, so fuck that we may as well go all in and buy better, but are probably not in the position to do so regarding FFP or just that those players have Champions League suitors.
Post by: chrisw1 on August 21, 2023, 09:56:39 AM
Callum Wilson isn't a better striker than Watkins, he's a better goalscorer but if you think that's all that's needed to be a top class striker for most teams then you're about 20 out of date.Callum Wilson is a better striker than Watkins. His fitness lets him down and so he wouldn't be a viable replacement, but when fit there's no doubt he's a better striker.
The problem with Watkins is that, like a few other players in our squad, he needs something to go for him to kick him up a level, that's why he's quite streaky as a goalscorer.
To address that we can either replace him with someone who adds a few extra goals to the team and doesn't weaken us in terms of off the ball running and work rate.
OR
We bring in players around him who can score more goals and reduce the burden on him to win us games.
We seem to have decided on the latter and 5 different goalscorers in 2 games is a big step in the right direction.
Post by: danno on August 21, 2023, 09:59:53 AM
Putting the baggage and bans aside, what would folk think of buying Toney? Would cost a pretty penny but he is a genuine goalscorer.Yep. But they'll want £100m.
I know Spurs got a lot for Kane in similar circumstances. But I believe Toney’s contract is expiring this summer. So he might be available cut price in January.
Coincidentally I think he’ll end up at Spurs.
Post by: Dave on August 21, 2023, 10:01:27 AM
Putting the baggage and bans aside, what would folk think of buying Toney? Would cost a pretty penny but he is a genuine goalscorer.Yep. But they'll want £100m.
I know Spurs got a lot for Kane in similar circumstances. But I believe Toney’s contract is expiring this summer. So he might be available cut price in January.
Summer '25 apparently.
Post by: danno on August 21, 2023, 10:03:02 AM
Putting the baggage and bans aside, what would folk think of buying Toney? Would cost a pretty penny but he is a genuine goalscorer.Yep. But they'll want £100m.
I know Spurs got a lot for Kane in similar circumstances. But I believe Toney’s contract is expiring this summer. So he might be available cut price in January.
Summer '25 apparently.
Ah that’s it then, he’s got one year left as of the end of the season.
So if he’s not signing a new contract, possibly available in January.
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on August 21, 2023, 10:06:15 AM
Seems to me we are trying very hard to convince Torres or Felix to 'drop down a level' and revive their career with us.
Edit. If it was up to me, and we had the cash, I would go for Jonathan David. Looks like a very good player to me.
Post by: pablo_picasso on August 21, 2023, 10:18:14 AM
But that’s reductive isn’t it? He doesn’t just work hard. He scores goals as well, and players that do both of those things or the latter to a consistently better level are high cost/probably playing in the Champions League.
Isak at Newcastle is, for me, significantly better than Watkins.
He cost twice as much.
Maybe that’s the key - spend more money, get a better player.
They signed him when they were nowhere near the champions league.
Diaby is a step in the right direction. If we can replace Watkins with a similarly costly and better player, we should do.
I was gutted we didn't go for Isak when he was available. He was perfect for us.
The next type of striker who is similar to Isak & scores in double figures consistently is probably Beto from Udinese.
Same height, same pace, good touch, stronger, but probably not as clinical.
Post by: Lsvilla on August 21, 2023, 10:47:48 AM
Not the way he's been gushing about Arsenal in a recent interviewPutting the baggage and bans aside, what would folk think of buying Toney? Would cost a pretty penny but he is a genuine goalscorer.Yep. But they'll want £100m.
I know Spurs got a lot for Kane in similar circumstances. But I believe Toney’s contract is expiring this summer. So he might be available cut price in January.
Coincidentally I think he’ll end up at Spurs.
Post by: RamboandBruno on August 21, 2023, 10:54:14 AM
Callum Wilson isn't a better striker than Watkins, he's a better goalscorer but if you think that's all that's needed to be a top class striker for most teams then you're about 20 out of date.Callum Wilson is a better striker than Watkins. His fitness lets him down and so he wouldn't be a viable replacement, but when fit there's no doubt he's a better striker.
The problem with Watkins is that, like a few other players in our squad, he needs something to go for him to kick him up a level, that's why he's quite streaky as a goalscorer.
To address that we can either replace him with someone who adds a few extra goals to the team and doesn't weaken us in terms of off the ball running and work rate.
OR
We bring in players around him who can score more goals and reduce the burden on him to win us games.
We seem to have decided on the latter and 5 different goalscorers in 2 games is a big step in the right direction.
There is doubt. Your not speaking for me on this Chris.
Post by: chrisw1 on August 21, 2023, 10:55:14 AM
I didn't say I was. Opinions are like arseholes.Callum Wilson isn't a better striker than Watkins, he's a better goalscorer but if you think that's all that's needed to be a top class striker for most teams then you're about 20 out of date.Callum Wilson is a better striker than Watkins. His fitness lets him down and so he wouldn't be a viable replacement, but when fit there's no doubt he's a better striker.
The problem with Watkins is that, like a few other players in our squad, he needs something to go for him to kick him up a level, that's why he's quite streaky as a goalscorer.
To address that we can either replace him with someone who adds a few extra goals to the team and doesn't weaken us in terms of off the ball running and work rate.
OR
We bring in players around him who can score more goals and reduce the burden on him to win us games.
We seem to have decided on the latter and 5 different goalscorers in 2 games is a big step in the right direction.
There is doubt. Your not speaking for me on this Chris.
Post by: Baldy on August 21, 2023, 10:58:20 AM
Perhaps, he was still a bit dazed after Pickford's assault and Dougie stepped in on this occasion only.
Post by: chrisw1 on August 21, 2023, 11:00:48 AM
Wonder if Ollie has lost the penalty taking responsibility? If so, that will not do his confidence any good.He has. McGinn said so in an interview - it's between him and Doug at the moment.
Perhaps, he was still a bit dazed after Pickford's assault and Dougie stepped in on this occasion only.
Post by: danno on August 21, 2023, 11:05:50 AM
I didn't say I was. Opinions are like arseholes.Callum Wilson isn't a better striker than Watkins, he's a better goalscorer but if you think that's all that's needed to be a top class striker for most teams then you're about 20 out of date.Callum Wilson is a better striker than Watkins. His fitness lets him down and so he wouldn't be a viable replacement, but when fit there's no doubt he's a better striker.
The problem with Watkins is that, like a few other players in our squad, he needs something to go for him to kick him up a level, that's why he's quite streaky as a goalscorer.
To address that we can either replace him with someone who adds a few extra goals to the team and doesn't weaken us in terms of off the ball running and work rate.
OR
We bring in players around him who can score more goals and reduce the burden on him to win us games.
We seem to have decided on the latter and 5 different goalscorers in 2 games is a big step in the right direction.
There is doubt. Your not speaking for me on this Chris.
In need of refreshing as circumstances dictate?
Post by: Brend'Watkins on August 21, 2023, 11:37:41 AM
Wonder if Ollie has lost the penalty taking responsibility? If so, that will not do his confidence any good.
I thought the same. However, no room for sentiment as Watkins isn't great at them and I'm in favour of our manager addressing the problem swiftly.
Dougie's pen is the sort of penalty I like. Hard and low into the corner. It doesn't matter how quick or agile the keeper is he's never getting a hand on it with that pace and direction.
Post by: LeeB on August 21, 2023, 11:46:47 AM
Wonder if Ollie has lost the penalty taking responsibility? If so, that will not do his confidence any good.
I thought the same. However, no room for sentiment as Watkins isn't great at them and I'm in favour of our manager addressing the problem swiftly.
Dougie's pen is the sort of penalty I like. Hard and low into the corner. It doesn't matter how quick or agile the keeper is he's never getting a hand on it with that pace and direction.
It was a perfect penalty but a keeper without t-rex arms might fare better.
Post by: JUAN PABLO on August 21, 2023, 11:52:24 AM
Not sure how many pens Watkins got last season , so dont know what his final goal tally would be without pens scored thou he did miss a couple .
Post by: 85kota on August 21, 2023, 11:53:56 AM
Says something about Watkins that we can't trust him to kick a dead ball from 12 yards. That being said I didn't think Watkins was that bad yesterday. His movement was really good but his touch let him down, as it often does.
I think we have been trying to upgrade but there aren't too many options for us at this time.
Possibly why we haven't signed Ascencio or Felix but had to take a bit more risk with Zaniolo.
Post by: AV84 on August 21, 2023, 12:12:18 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 21, 2023, 12:16:39 PM
Post by: danno on August 24, 2023, 09:24:43 AM
Post by: Mortimer's Bear on August 24, 2023, 11:20:10 AM
Post by: Villan82 on August 24, 2023, 11:50:54 AM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 24, 2023, 09:46:37 PM
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on August 25, 2023, 01:24:22 AM
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e6c2d43a-426f-11ee-8b31-3c9c533abb75?shareToken=b65ce0562fb9fc80231cf18c71c45ded
“It definitely did help me,” he says. “Before, I used to think if I had a bad game was Ingsy going to start the next game, and there was always that doubt that if I hadn’t scored after 60 minutes he was going to come on. It didn’t work out that way but it was creeping in the back of my mind.”
I mean I get that it would be comforting to know you're 'the main man' but I'm hoping his mental fortitude will be tested at some point in the near future with someone challenging him. Being challenged for your place is the plight of 99% of footballers and he'll need to handle it better when it happens again. We can't be worried about how it'll affect Watkins just by bringing someone in.
Post by: AV84 on August 25, 2023, 08:40:25 AM
If his form is very patchy and he's only scoring every 4th or 5th game then you'd have to say tough shit, Ollie, we're bringing someone else in, either score more or get out of the way.
As things are though I'm fine with him being the main man.
Post by: nick harper on August 25, 2023, 09:32:42 AM
What a signing he has been. Great business. I hope we have him for years to come- he will smash various modern day records.
If he signs a new contract he will have a chance to be the first player to score 100 goals for the club since Peter McParland. Astonishing that it is more than 60 years since anyone achieved that feat.
Post by: Dave on August 25, 2023, 09:45:43 AM
What a signing he has been. Great business. I hope we have him for years to come- he will smash various modern day records.
If he signs a new contract he will have a chance to be the first player to score 100 goals for the club since Peter McParland. Astonishing that it is more than 60 years since anyone achieved that feat.
This season should easily see him overtake Barry, Benteke, Angel and Dublin for goals scored Since Football Began, with only Yorke and Gabby ahead of him. Pretty great return - particularly when you see the strikers who have been bought for comparable money in time he's been with us.
Post by: Drummond on August 25, 2023, 10:15:17 AM
Post by: brontebilly on August 25, 2023, 11:27:16 AM
Post by: Steve67 on August 25, 2023, 04:13:00 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on August 25, 2023, 04:22:07 PM
I'm hoping Ollie is around long enough to knock Gabby Agbonlahor off the list. Aston Villa legend! My arse.yes this
Post by: London Villan on August 25, 2023, 04:31:15 PM
Post by: Smithy on August 26, 2023, 09:22:19 AM
I don't think there is a forward in the league who works as hard, or is as effective in the press, as he is. And sure, that doesn't always directly lead to goals, and there are few stats that can make this part of his game look impressive, but the lack of time defenders get when he's around makes them much less effective when THEY have the ball. That's really valuable, and unfortunately, under-appreciated.
Post by: Dante Lavelli on August 26, 2023, 09:26:00 AM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 26, 2023, 11:09:09 AM
Ollie's attitude is everything that Agbonlahor's wasn't - 100% committed, guaranteed effort. Give me Ollie every day of the week, even with his limitations.
Jesus, yes, I struggle to think of another two Villa players past or present with such contrasting attitudes.
Agbonlahor was absolutely disgraceful towards the end.
Post by: astonvilla82 on August 26, 2023, 08:13:42 PM
agreeded, plus I don't want him anywhere near Villa Park in the future for whatever reasonOllie's attitude is everything that Agbonlahor's wasn't - 100% committed, guaranteed effort. Give me Ollie every day of the week, even with his limitations.
Jesus, yes, I struggle to think of another two Villa players past or present with such contrasting attitudes.
Agbonlahor was absolutely disgraceful towards the end.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on August 26, 2023, 08:48:18 PM
Post by: PaulTheVillan on August 26, 2023, 09:11:27 PM
Watkins should become our record PL goalscorer this season.I hope so
Post by: N'ZMAV on August 26, 2023, 09:11:35 PM
Ollie's attitude is everything that Agbonlahor's wasn't - 100% committed, guaranteed effort. Give me Ollie every day of the week, even with his limitations.totally agree - I just wish he had Stauntons left foot and Yorkes first touch
Post by: Dave on August 26, 2023, 09:26:42 PM
Watkins should become our record PL goalscorer this season.
I think that 34 Premier League goals in the next 36 games is a big ask.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on August 26, 2023, 09:53:14 PM
Still, be fucking great if he did it, eh?!
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on August 27, 2023, 12:50:05 AM
Ollie's attitude is everything that Agbonlahor's wasn't - 100% committed, guaranteed effort. Give me Ollie every day of the week, even with his limitations.
Jesus, yes, I struggle to think of another two Villa players past or present with such contrasting attitudes.
Agbonlahor was absolutely disgraceful towards the end.
I genuinely couldn't stand Agbonlahor by the end, it was visceral, he became one of the biggest fucking wasters I have ever come across in football. He's also thick as shit now as a pundit but I can't really hold that against him but his effort the last 4 seasons? I absolutely can.
Post by: Dante Lavelli on August 27, 2023, 01:22:05 AM
Ollie's attitude is everything that Agbonlahor's wasn't - 100% committed, guaranteed effort. Give me Ollie every day of the week, even with his limitations.
Jesus, yes, I struggle to think of another two Villa players past or present with such contrasting attitudes.
Agbonlahor was absolutely disgraceful towards the end.
I genuinely couldn't stand Agbonlahor by the end, it was visceral, he became one of the biggest fucking wasters I have ever come across in football. He's also thick as shit now as a pundit but I can't really hold that against him but his effort the last 4 seasons? I absolutely can.
He was one of the senior pros at the time too. He must have stunk the place out. The opposite of a positive role model.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 27, 2023, 04:55:56 PM
Post by: AV84 on August 27, 2023, 07:55:49 PM
I'm perfectly happy with what he does even when not scoring, but it does feel like, Hibs game aside, the luck just isn't going his way.
Post by: brontebilly on August 27, 2023, 08:10:31 PM
I feel kind of bad for Watkins, last week the shot that led to the penalty he probably would have scored if Pickford hadn't been trying to decapitate him. This week for Cash's first, there was an awkward bounce or touch, and he did well to cross it, but another day he'd have controlled it and scored himself.
I'm perfectly happy with what he does even when not scoring, but it does feel like, Hibs game aside, the luck just isn't going his way.
Thought he dominated their backline throughout. But there was two sitters from memory today that he missed. Just didn't seem to be his day. I know it's only cameo appearances really that Duran is getting but if Watkins got injured....
Post by: AV84 on August 27, 2023, 08:16:36 PM
Thought he dominated their backline throughout. But there was two sitters from memory today that he missed. Just didn't seem to be his day. I know it's only cameo appearances really that Duran is getting but if Watkins got injured....
We've been getting our goals from all over the pitch this season but Watkins is still contributing to a lot of them in other ways, so yeah, he'd be a big miss if he was out for any long spell, even if he's yet to get on the score sheet. But then again, maybe another player would be finishing some of those sitters even if they contributed nothing else to the match.
I am happier with Watkins on the pitch, goals or not, hopefully he stays fit.
Post by: OCD on August 27, 2023, 09:39:07 PM
Post by: Drummond on August 28, 2023, 11:09:36 AM
Post by: maidstonevillain on August 28, 2023, 12:00:15 PM
He would have had a tap-in if Zaniolo hadn't been so desperate to get a debut goal.Maybe Zaniolo had seen a few replays of some of his previous attempts at tap ins.
Post by: AV84 on August 28, 2023, 12:14:31 PM
Post by: OCD on August 28, 2023, 12:40:41 PM
Post by: ozzjim on August 28, 2023, 12:57:03 PM
Post by: Risso on August 28, 2023, 02:02:39 PM
Zaniolo going for glory on his debut in a game we're already comfortably winning, I'll forgive, but I hope it was a one off and he knows if he's in that position again to pass it. I'm sure Emery will leave him in no doubt about that.
To be fair to him, I’d say his shooting chance and Watkins being in space both opened up at the same time, so it was probably easy to get caught in two minds.
Post by: VillaTim on August 28, 2023, 02:05:33 PM
To be fair by that point Watkins should have buried 2 sitters. He needs to take chances more consistently to kick on, he's getting plenty of them.He should be on 4 Prem goals now and instead he's on 0
Post by: ozzjim on August 28, 2023, 02:09:21 PM
To be fair by that point Watkins should have buried 2 sitters. He needs to take chances more consistently to kick on, he's getting plenty of them.He should be on 4 Prem goals now and instead he's on 0
Agreed. His finishing is still way off a top forward. Don't get me wrong, what he offers with his all round game is phenomenal.
Post by: martyn ellis on August 28, 2023, 02:36:38 PM
Post by: Nunkin1965 on August 28, 2023, 02:43:54 PM
Post by: SamTheMouse on August 28, 2023, 03:31:28 PM
Post by: Small Rodent on August 28, 2023, 03:34:56 PM
What I love about Ollie is that when Zaniolo decided (wrongly?) to go for goal himself, Ollie, instead of standing there arms akimbo like so many as if to say why didn't you pass to me, ran over with a big smile on his face and patted him on the back. Lovely attitude, which you can see throughout the team.
Yeah, I thought that was great.
Post by: paul_e on August 28, 2023, 04:07:38 PM
I reckon Ollie along with one or two others will get close to the sacred 20 league goals this season.
I'd take 3-4 getting in double figures and I think we'd be a better team for that than if Watkins scored 30+ on his own.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on August 28, 2023, 04:07:59 PM
It's frustrating that he isn't a bit more clinical, because he makes such great runs into the right places. And he's always available for the ball and never hides.
I've mentioned this before, his ability to be in the right place at the right time is his greatest strength. Very few strikers can match him on that score. He's also bloody fast, something that rarely gets a mention. Unfortunately he'll never be clinical as technically he's weak but that shouldn't stop him scoring 25+ goals this season. We've a team that will create the chances, he just needs to do what he does best and be the option to score.
Post by: AV84 on August 28, 2023, 04:34:28 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 28, 2023, 04:41:22 PM
Post by: OCD on August 28, 2023, 05:22:48 PM
I reckon Ollie along with one or two others will get close to the sacred 20 league goals this season.
I'd take 3-4 getting in double figures and I think we'd be a better team for that than if Watkins scored 30+ on his own.
I'll take a 30+ goal difference by the end of the season over Watkins getting 30+.
Post by: Three Spires Villa on August 28, 2023, 05:26:14 PM
All day long, correctI reckon Ollie along with one or two others will get close to the sacred 20 league goals this season.
I'd take 3-4 getting in double figures and I think we'd be a better team for that than if Watkins scored 30+ on his own.
I'll take a 30+ goal difference by the end of the season over Watkins getting 30+.
Post by: danno on August 28, 2023, 05:33:17 PM
He should have scored in the league by now, but it will come. I’d be concerned if he wasn’t getting chances.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 28, 2023, 06:39:51 PM
Post by: supertom on August 28, 2023, 08:55:54 PM
He's a great mix of the classic unselfish no9 but with the ability to score too. He's playing with confidence and driving at people too. When his head has dropped in rough patches, notably under Gerrard and late Smith, he's been a bit hesitant to get at defenders.
So long may he keep playing with confidence to add to the work rate which has always been there by default. As we've seen, ever since he's joined the club, regardless of whether he's in top form or not at his best, we always look better with him in the side.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on August 29, 2023, 12:21:59 AM
Post by: CT Villan on August 29, 2023, 02:25:43 AM
Good assist yesterday.
I've watched and rewatched the Ollie 'assist' and I swear he never looks up once for Cash - to my mind he's going for goal and screws it up. Luckily for us and him, Matty is following up on the far post. At the end of the day it's not really important, we won the game comfortably but we may not always be so lucky.
Post by: Garyth on August 29, 2023, 03:16:08 AM
They'll watch the match back as a group and stop to analyse bits. It must be quite embarrassing when they get to the bit where Watkins has a tap-in if Zaniolo lays it off. Hopefully he learns for the next time they're in that situation.
I can picture them all in this meeting, with Emery pausing the video at the point he could have slipped it though and just looking at Zaniolo with an eyebrow raised. Everyone will know he should have and everyone will also understand the context of why he didn’t - he’ll get a free pass this time, but if it happens again you can imagine Emery having none of it.
Post by: Ian. on August 29, 2023, 07:19:03 AM
Good assist yesterday.
Yes it was a superb pass across the box.
Post by: Olneythelonely on August 29, 2023, 08:06:31 AM
Good assist yesterday.
I've watched and rewatched the Ollie 'assist' and I swear he never looks up once for Cash - to my mind he's going for goal and screws it up. Luckily for us and him, Matty is following up on the far post. At the end of the day it's not really important, we won the game comfortably but we may not always be so lucky.
Wow!
Post by: Mister E on August 29, 2023, 08:23:48 AM
That's how I saw it ...Good assist yesterday.
I've watched and rewatched the Ollie 'assist' and I swear he never looks up once for Cash - to my mind he's going for goal and screws it up. Luckily for us and him, Matty is following up on the far post. At the end of the day it's not really important, we won the game comfortably but we may not always be so lucky.
Post by: Clampy on August 29, 2023, 08:25:20 AM
Post by: Taylor on August 29, 2023, 08:27:53 AM
This reminds me of that scene in American Beauty when the mother says to the girl “you know I watched you really closely, and you didn’t screw up once”.Good assist yesterday.
I've watched and rewatched the Ollie 'assist' and I swear he never looks up once for Cash - to my mind he's going for goal and screws it up. Luckily for us and him, Matty is following up on the far post. At the end of the day it's not really important, we won the game comfortably but we may not always be so lucky.
Wow!
Post by: LeeB on August 29, 2023, 08:34:07 AM
No problem, but I haven't seen one person mention it.
Like keepers, forwards are held to higher standards than the other players on the pitch.
Post by: Dave on August 29, 2023, 09:11:34 AM
On Sunday, Douglas Luiz was marvellous, but on a least 3 occasions he tried a through ball that was cut out.
No problem, but I haven't seen one person mention it.
This is just further evidence of your obvious and relentless crusade against Douglas Luiz.
Post by: RamboandBruno on August 29, 2023, 09:17:47 AM
That's how I saw it ...Good assist yesterday.
I've watched and rewatched the Ollie 'assist' and I swear he never looks up once for Cash - to my mind he's going for goal and screws it up. Luckily for us and him, Matty is following up on the far post. At the end of the day it's not really important, we won the game comfortably but we may not always be so lucky.
Do we need a bit of stevie g, players looking each other in the eye before they pass??
Isnt football a lot of the time hitting the ball into the correct space?
Post by: VillaTim on August 29, 2023, 09:23:39 AM
yep same, i think he tried to dink it in over the keeper and got his angles wrongThat's how I saw it ...Good assist yesterday.
I've watched and rewatched the Ollie 'assist' and I swear he never looks up once for Cash - to my mind he's going for goal and screws it up. Luckily for us and him, Matty is following up on the far post. At the end of the day it's not really important, we won the game comfortably but we may not always be so lucky.
Post by: Risso on August 29, 2023, 09:42:40 AM
On Sunday, Douglas Luiz was marvellous, but on a least 3 occasions he tried a through ball that was cut out.
No problem, but I haven't seen one person mention it.
Like keepers, forwards are held to higher standards than the other players on the pitch.
It's not comparing like with like though. Luiz played 51 passes against Burnley, and there isn't a midfielder in the country with a 100% successful pass rate, so obviously some are going to go astray. Strikers are there to score goals, and it's why they tend to be the most high profile and well paid players in the team.
Post by: PaulTheVillan on August 29, 2023, 09:43:57 AM
Post by: LeeB on August 29, 2023, 09:47:25 AM
I wasn't comparing like for like either, clearly, from my last sentence.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on August 29, 2023, 10:14:28 AM
That's how I saw it ...Good assist yesterday.
I've watched and rewatched the Ollie 'assist' and I swear he never looks up once for Cash - to my mind he's going for goal and screws it up. Luckily for us and him, Matty is following up on the far post. At the end of the day it's not really important, we won the game comfortably but we may not always be so lucky.
Do we need a bit of stevie g, players looking each other in the eye before they pass??
Isnt football a lot of the time hitting the ball into the correct space?
We always have someone attacking the back post now. Nobody attacks on their own under Emery. It's becoming instinctive for them all to expect a teammate to be there, wherever it might be on the pitch. He might not have known Cash was there, but I bet he believed somebody would be.
Post by: Olneythelonely on August 29, 2023, 10:20:48 AM
Post by: Risso on August 29, 2023, 10:24:35 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 29, 2023, 10:25:39 AM
Post by: The Edge on August 29, 2023, 10:32:31 AM
Yes I thought that. Ollie seems like a top lad. If he could just find a little composure when the inevitable chances come his way he could be awesome.They'll watch the match back as a group and stop to analyse bits. It must be quite embarrassing when they get to the bit where Watkins has a tap-in if Zaniolo lays it off. Hopefully he learns for the next time they're in that situation.
I can picture them all in this meeting, with Emery pausing the video at the point he could have slipped it though and just looking at Zaniolo with an eyebrow raised. Everyone will know he should have and everyone will also understand the context of why he didn’t - he’ll get a free pass this time, but if it happens again you can imagine Emery having none of it.
Post by: paul_e on August 29, 2023, 10:49:51 AM
For the first goal Ollie's touch was a bit heavy, but his speed enabled him to recover, and chip it towards goal. Whether it was an attempt himself or for somebody else to follow up, doesn't really matter. He was under a huge amount of pressure from the goalkeeper.
Exactly this, whether he was shooting or crossing doesn't really make a difference, by going across the goal he gave the chance to score or for someone to get on the end of it. Scoring in the amount we've seen in the last 3 games is mostly about 'loading the dice', if you keep putting the ball into the right areas and you keep having players commit to finding space in the box it will create goals. In general we're just making good decisions in the opposition box this season and we could easily have 4-5 more goals than our already very impressive haul of 13 in 4.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on August 29, 2023, 11:39:44 AM
I still like him though as he leads the line well and puts in great effort.
Post by: chrisw1 on August 29, 2023, 12:03:54 PM
The reality is he is very important to the way we play and whilst I still find him frustrating at times he's a really important cog in the machine. More to the point, I think it would be incredibly difficult (and expensive) to get someone better at the moment. Look how many chances Darwin has missed at Liverpool - and he was £65m rising to £85m with add-ons. How many central strikers in the PL would be guaranteed to be better? I start to struggle after Haaland, Isak & Toney. Possibly Alverez but he's in such a dominant team it's hard to say. Maybe Jesus if fit, maybe Nico Jackson once he's more settled?
If Ollie doesn't sign a contract we'll probably have to sell next summer. I think there will be plenty of takers and we'll miss him.
Post by: Drummond on August 29, 2023, 01:41:03 PM
Post by: Olneythelonely on August 29, 2023, 01:42:13 PM
Post by: LeeB on August 29, 2023, 01:44:00 PM
Post by: Martyn Smith on August 29, 2023, 01:53:49 PM
Post by: Martyn Smith on August 29, 2023, 02:01:01 PM
It was a great run off the ball, took a bit of a bounce off his knee, he recovered and got to the ball again before the goalkeeper did and played it across. Looked like an assist all round to me.
I always feel that great sides deal with the second best options well, and anticipating how a misplaced shot might travel. So many of the strikes of perhaps the most deadly duo of the modern era, Van Nistelrooy and Solskjaer, were converted by the latter picking up the spillage of where the former had not quite found the right finish first off. Under Gerrard Watkins effort would probably have dribbled out for a goal kick with no-one near it. Under Emery the right wing back sees what could be on the cards and busts a gut to put the stray ball away
Post by: VillaTim on August 29, 2023, 02:43:11 PM
Which other Premier League strikers would you have ahead of Watkins? Haaland and Salah perhaps but then when you consider all that he offers, and the role he has in this team, I wouldn't swap him.Toney maybe if we could drag him out of William Hill's
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 29, 2023, 02:47:37 PM
Post by: Monty on August 29, 2023, 02:50:48 PM
To be a notable upgrade on Watkins we'd need a striker that plays 35+ league games a season, scores 15+ league games, gets 6+ assists, works his balls off every game no matter how well or poorly as it's going as it's key to how we play and is very much a team player. That narrows down the list of potential options a hell of a lot.
Yep, an upgrade on Ollie Watkins looks like Victor Osimhen. That's the reality.
Post by: Risso on August 29, 2023, 03:07:32 PM
To be a notable upgrade on Watkins we'd need a striker that plays 35+ league games a season, scores 15+ league games, gets 6+ assists, works his balls off every game no matter how well or poorly as it's going as it's key to how we play and is very much a team player. That narrows down the list of potential options a hell of a lot.
Yep, an upgrade on Ollie Watkins looks like Victor Osimhen. That's the reality.
There's nobody between Ollie Watkins and Osimhen? I fine that a bit unlikely to be honest.
Post by: Monty on August 29, 2023, 03:19:17 PM
Post by: Risso on August 29, 2023, 03:20:42 PM
I kind of feel like if Watkins seriously upped his finishing rate in such a manner as would make a difference, he'd be considered world class, in the £80-100m bracket. Granted, Osimhen is more £120-150m, but it's rareified territory.
Yes but that's "if my auntie had bollocks...." territory.
Post by: Monty on August 29, 2023, 03:26:06 PM
Still, for a guaranteed upgrade? I don't think there's anyone we could realistically get, actually. Look at Man Utd's struggling to get one - there's no glut of top class, well-rounded centre forwards right now.
Post by: Drummond on August 29, 2023, 03:46:08 PM
I think that sums it up really, he may miss a few but he's invaluable to us.
Post by: Risso on August 29, 2023, 03:53:03 PM
Normally there would be loads of suggestions to my question, but the only one is Isak. Or Toney, who can't play anyway.
I think that sums it up really, he may miss a few but he's invaluable to us.
Well you limited it to Premier League strikers. I think you can add Wilson to that. In terms of forwards rather than out and out number 9s, then you could include Son and Rashford. But players don't have to come from the Premier League, Martin O'Neill isn't manager any more.
Post by: Monty on August 29, 2023, 03:54:08 PM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on August 29, 2023, 04:00:07 PM
Mind you, that run Ollie had second half of last season had me questioning my view.
Post by: paul_e on August 29, 2023, 04:02:50 PM
Jimmy Greaves always used to say that his 25 goals a season were the result of about 100 shots
On average for premier league strikers it's more like 140 or more (based on a conversion rate of around 17-18%).
Post by: Monty on August 29, 2023, 04:04:20 PM
Post by: Drummond on August 29, 2023, 04:05:12 PM
Normally there would be loads of suggestions to my question, but the only one is Isak. Or Toney, who can't play anyway.
I think that sums it up really, he may miss a few but he's invaluable to us.
Well you limited it to Premier League strikers. I think you can add Wilson to that. In terms of forwards rather than out and out number 9s, then you could include Son and Rashford. But players don't have to come from the Premier League, Martin O'Neill isn't manager any more.
I did, and for good reason; that's the league we're in and the strikers he can be compared with who are playing against a similar standard.
Post by: Risso on August 29, 2023, 04:09:21 PM
Normally there would be loads of suggestions to my question, but the only one is Isak. Or Toney, who can't play anyway.
I think that sums it up really, he may miss a few but he's invaluable to us.
Well you limited it to Premier League strikers. I think you can add Wilson to that. In terms of forwards rather than out and out number 9s, then you could include Son and Rashford. But players don't have to come from the Premier League, Martin O'Neill isn't manager any more.
I did, and for good reason; that's the league we're in and the strikers he can be compared with who are playing against a similar standard.
Yes but it's not where you're forced to shop for upgrades.
Post by: paul_e on August 29, 2023, 04:09:54 PM
Dunno pal, I've just watched Tammy spend a year making Ollie look like Gerd Müller.
Tammy blows hot and cold just as much as Watkins does, Watkins is far more use to a team when he's 'cold' though because unlike the majority of strikers the pressure of not scoring doesn't seem to have such a detrimental effect on his all round game.
Post by: Drummond on August 29, 2023, 04:14:30 PM
Normally there would be loads of suggestions to my question, but the only one is Isak. Or Toney, who can't play anyway.
I think that sums it up really, he may miss a few but he's invaluable to us.
Well you limited it to Premier League strikers. I think you can add Wilson to that. In terms of forwards rather than out and out number 9s, then you could include Son and Rashford. But players don't have to come from the Premier League, Martin O'Neill isn't manager any more.
I did, and for good reason; that's the league we're in and the strikers he can be compared with who are playing against a similar standard.
Yes but it's not where you're forced to shop for upgrades.
Ok, so for arguments sake, we're talking here about Man City, Man Utd, Tottenham and Newcastle being the only clubs with a potentially better striker in this country then all the other clubs in the Premier League must want to sign the upgrades? And then add in the other clubs with Champions League football etc and it makes it very hard.
It's just not that easy to upgrade him.
Post by: Risso on August 29, 2023, 04:27:10 PM
Post by: Drummond on August 29, 2023, 04:32:38 PM
Pick holes in the list, but that's including everyone people have suggested, and I'd argue against most of them. I'd rather Watkins than Rashford, Son, Isak.
Post by: algy on August 29, 2023, 04:45:14 PM
There's also this myth that you can actual get 20 goal a season strikers fairly easily. When in reality how many strikers actual score 20+ goals for more than a single season in their entire career? I make it as 19 since 1992/93 (as that's an easy place to start):
- Les Ferdinand (92/93, 94/95, 95/96)
- Alan Shearer (93/94, 94/95, 95/96, 96/97, 99/00, 01/02, 03/04)
- Matt Le Tissier (89/90*, 93/94, 94/95)
- Ian Wright (91/92*, 93/94, 96/97)
- Robbie Fowler (94/95, 95/96)
- Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink (00/01, 01/02)
- Thierry Henry (01/02, 02/03, 03/04, 04/05, 05/06)
- Ruud Van Nistelrooy (01/02, 02/03, 03/04, 05/06)
- Didier Drogba (06/07, 09/10)
- Wayne Rooney (09/10, 11/12)
- Carlos Tevez (09/10, 10/11)
- Robin Van Persie (11/12, 12/13)
- Sergio Aguero (11/12, 14/15, 15/16, 16/17, 17/18, 18/19)
- Luis Suarez (12/13, 13/14)
- Harry Kane (14/15, 15/16, 16/17 17/18, 20/21, 22/23)
- Diego Costa (14/15, 17/18)
- Jamie Vardy (15/16, 17/18, 19/20)
- Mo Salah (17/18, 18/19, 20/21, 21/22)
- Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang (18/19, 19/20)
* happened before 92/93, but IMO they still count ... I'm just not looking at players whose final 20+ season was more than 30 years ago.
I dunno, 19 players in 30 years. It feels like maybe they're not all that common. Even with the above, 20 goals a season seems to generally be something that happens once or twice in a player's career - there's a few exceptions to that, but not loads (4 players with 3 seasons, 6 with 4+ seasons). And say at 27 Jamie Vardy had only hit 20+ once, so I sort of think it's not completely impossible to imagine that Ollie Watkins might still score 20 goals this season, or next, or the season after that.
Post by: Monty on August 29, 2023, 04:46:32 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 29, 2023, 04:52:28 PM
Who was the last player to score 20 for us in a top-division league campaign?
Withe 80/81.
Platt (twice) and Benteke got 19.
Post by: Risso on August 29, 2023, 04:53:45 PM
Post by: Monty on August 29, 2023, 04:57:36 PM
I don't think anybody at all is saying that Watkins is a bad player, as he clearly very much isn't. But he needs to be way more clinical/intelligent in front of goal, and there's also the fact that we still don't really have a number 9 style replacement for him. Also people keep mentioning his all round work rate, when Ollie himself said last season that Emery had said he needs to do less of it and to concentrate on being in the area more and scoring goals.
But it wasn't just 'build-up vs. scoring', it's more that he's more useful in the team's build-up play by staying central, within the width of the area up and down the pitch. Emery would hardly want him to turn into Darren Bent.
Post by: ozzjim on August 29, 2023, 04:58:12 PM
Post by: Drummond on August 29, 2023, 05:01:55 PM
Spot on. I think every fan appreciates how good he is for us, but the cold facts are to get top 4 we need him to be a bit more clinical. Takes his chance at Newcastle it might be a different game. Should have scored against Burnley and Everton. Missed a sitter and a half against Hibs. I get strikers have off days, Haaland could have scored 5 at the weekend, but Ollie is consistently hit and miss where it matters most.
And he's top of the striker's assist table since the start of last season. He offers far more than just goals for himself.
As for picking holes in games where we scored 3, 4 and 5 goals well perhaps I should just give in.
Post by: Risso on August 29, 2023, 05:04:05 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 29, 2023, 05:12:59 PM
Post by: yamyam on August 30, 2023, 11:34:27 AM
Who was the last player to score 20 for us in a top-division league campaign?
Withe 80/81.
Platt (twice) and Benteke got 19.
im pretty sure Platt never got 20 in top division ..19 twice was best league return in 89/90 and 90/91
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 30, 2023, 11:39:25 AM
Who was the last player to score 20 for us in a top-division league campaign?
Withe 80/81.
Platt (twice) and Benteke got 19.
im pretty sure Platt never got 20 in top division ..19 twice was best league return in 89/90 and 90/91
I think Platt only got 19 actually.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 30, 2023, 11:42:56 AM
Post by: Olneythelonely on August 30, 2023, 01:34:26 PM
My view is that the work he does, outside of scoring himself, likely creates more than 5-10 goals for teammates.
He’s better than Wilson, he’s not as good as Haaland. There are probably lots of players in between Watkins and Haaland, but would they come to us right now?
Post by: AV84 on August 30, 2023, 01:56:01 PM
Post by: alan_clarke on September 17, 2023, 11:02:28 AM
But i don’t subscribe to the view that he could be easily replaced - he still has good numbers compared to most. I do see why Southgate might not fancy him though.
Post by: Clampy on September 17, 2023, 11:05:12 AM
Post by: alan_clarke on September 17, 2023, 11:09:15 AM
Post by: Axl Rose on September 17, 2023, 11:29:01 AM
I mean yes, I can’t work out why Konsa hasn’t figured in a squad.
I think it's somehow connected to the fact that Southgate is a gigantic bellend.
Post by: Risso on September 17, 2023, 11:31:49 AM
I mean yes, I can’t work out why Konsa hasn’t figured in a squad.
I think it's somehow connected to the fact that Southgate is a gigantic bellend.
I loathe him. I have very little interest in England anyway, but I can’t wait for the day he fucks off and falls flat on his face back in club football.
Post by: pablo_picasso on September 17, 2023, 01:37:31 PM
Post by: Dante Lavelli on September 17, 2023, 02:16:15 PM
I do wonder whether he has the right mentality to be a truly top striker in this league.
Slight tangent but I remember watching Grealish and Watkins doing this drill for TV where they scored points by kicking balls at random targets. You could see Watkins tightening up whereas Grealish didn’t have a care in the world. The harder the better as far as he was concerned. I think Watkins cares too much and could do with a bit of Jhon/Grealish/Luiz’s ‘no f**ks given’ attitude.
Post by: Dante Lavelli on September 17, 2023, 02:20:48 PM
James Horncastle was saying he is the best striker in Serie A and cannot believe he is still at Inter due to their debts and need to sell. The reason JH likes him so much is because he’s managed to adapt each season to different strike partners so similar to Watkins that he can do a bit of everything but hopefully a better conversation rate.
Post by: Risso on September 17, 2023, 02:26:51 PM
I do wonder whether he has the right mentality to be a truly top striker in this league.
Slight tangent but I remember watching Grealish and Watkins doing this drill for TV where they scored points by kicking balls at random targets. You could see Watkins tightening up whereas Grealish didn’t have a care in the world. The harder the better as far as he was concerned. I think Watkins cares too much and could do with a bit of Jhon/Grealish/Luiz’s ‘no f**ks given’ attitude.
Watkins is at his best when he's under a bit of pressure from a defender. When has a bit of time and space he seems to over-think things and usually produces the wrong outcome.
Post by: frank black on September 17, 2023, 03:44:29 PM
Post by: danno on September 17, 2023, 04:06:19 PM
I really like him, but he doesn’t seem himself. Perhaps he needs to sign a new contract or move on? Maybe that what is at the back of his mind
I’d actually forgotten about the contract situation, I know they take a while but am a little surprised he hasn’t signed a new one by now.
Post by: LeonW on September 17, 2023, 05:56:23 PM
I mean yes, I can’t work out why Konsa hasn’t figured in a squad.
I think it's somehow connected to the fact that Southgate is a gigantic bellend.
I loathe him. I have very little interest in England anyway, but I can’t wait for the day he fucks off and falls flat on his face back in club football.
I could see a Crystal Palace giving him a go before it quickly goes wrong after a bright start. Then another premier league club probably won’t give him a go depending on how badly it goes. The profile of club that would be interested would be no higher than that.
Post by: LeonW on September 17, 2023, 06:02:17 PM
Post by: Dante Lavelli on September 17, 2023, 07:07:11 PM
Whilst I like Watkins this shuffle would suit us as I don’t think we could justify having two players of that ilk (and Duran) unless we have somehow managed to get into the champions league.
Post by: eamonn on September 17, 2023, 07:45:39 PM
Not sure he has the Duran Yeboah-cum-Benteke chest,turn and thundercunt-it type of shot in his locker.
Did Watkins celebrate our equaliser or did he keep away from the huddle? Whatever, beats Boubacar Kamara's bored-looking frowny face on the bench after he was subbed off!
Post by: Somniloquism on September 17, 2023, 07:49:35 PM
That little dinked chip off the post and the back of Johnston's head was a beautiful little shot. And a lot harder to execute than his one-on-one in the first half.
Not sure he has the Duran Yeboah-cum-Benteke chest,turn and thundercunt-it type of shot in his locker.
Did Watkins celebrate our equaliser or did he keep away from the huddle? Whatever, beats Boubacar Kamara's bored-looking frowny face on the bench after he was subbed off!
Ran and got the ball so we could go for the win asap.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 17, 2023, 07:59:19 PM
That little dinked chip off the post and the back of Johnston's head was a beautiful little shot. And a lot harder to execute than his one-on-one in the first half.
Not sure he has the Duran Yeboah-cum-Benteke chest,turn and thundercunt-it type of shot in his locker.
Did Watkins celebrate our equaliser or did he keep away from the huddle? Whatever, beats Boubacar Kamara's bored-looking frowny face on the bench after he was subbed off!
Ran and got the ball so we could go for the win asap.
He was on his way to get it when Diaby raced past him to get it.
Post by: AV84 on September 17, 2023, 08:05:37 PM
Did Watkins celebrate our equaliser or did he keep away from the huddle? Whatever, beats Boubacar Kamara's bored-looking frowny face on the bench after he was subbed off!
Watkins took the ball to restart the game after the equaliser, and he was over celebrating with Luiz at the corner flag for the winner.
Also I noticed he got himself into a very good position in case Luiz missed and it rebounded, he and Diaby both were chasing that up.
Post by: Olof's Beard on September 17, 2023, 08:07:46 PM
Post by: AV84 on September 17, 2023, 08:09:31 PM
Diaby encroached for the pen and we got away with it
Someone in the match thread posted a thing that says they only punish for that if the ball actually comes back out.
But I did notice Luiz's run up caught both Diaby and Watkins out. Watkins managed to stop himself though.
Post by: Risso on September 17, 2023, 08:21:39 PM
Diaby encroached for the pen and we got away with it
Someone in the match thread posted a thing that says they only punish for that if the ball actually comes back out.
But I did notice Luiz's run up caught both Diaby and Watkins out. Watkins managed to stop himself though.
That's not right, VAR can only look at encroachment if the player encroaching has a material impact on the goal being scored/saved.
Post by: Somniloquism on September 17, 2023, 08:41:13 PM
Diaby encroached for the pen and we got away with it
Someone in the match thread posted a thing that says they only punish for that if the ball actually comes back out.
But I did notice Luiz's run up caught both Diaby and Watkins out. Watkins managed to stop himself though.
That's not right, VAR can only look at encroachment if the player encroaching has a material impact on the goal being scored/saved.
TBF it was right next to the ref and he waved the protesting defender away. So it was ref's decision on Encroachment. What might have saved Diaby was he stopped and back pedalled. If he had continued forward he might have been called on it. (Although to be fair, if he had continued forward he would have caught the ball in the goal behind the keeper. )
Post by: Mister E on September 17, 2023, 09:30:37 PM
]There was no encroachment because Dougie scored.
That's not right, VAR can only look at encroachment if the player encroaching has a material impact on the goal being scor
TBF it was right next to the ref and he waved the protesting defender away. So it was ref's decision on Encroachment. What might have saved Diaby was he stopped and back pedalled. If he had continued forward he might have been called on it. (Although to be fair, if he had continued forward he would have caught the ball in the goal behind the keeper. )
Post by: Drummond on September 17, 2023, 10:01:28 PM
It has Watkins with full marks for Attack, Defence and Control.....
Post by: Brend'Watkins on September 17, 2023, 10:03:12 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on September 17, 2023, 10:09:52 PM
]There was no encroachment because Dougie scored.
That's not right, VAR can only look at encroachment if the player encroaching has a material impact on the goal being scor
TBF it was right next to the ref and he waved the protesting defender away. So it was ref's decision on Encroachment. What might have saved Diaby was he stopped and back pedalled. If he had continued forward he might have been called on it. (Although to be fair, if he had continued forward he would have caught the ball in the goal behind the keeper. )
An attacking player encroaching is still encroaching whether the goal is scored. I can't see anything on the rules stating Encroachment doesn't count if a goal is scored unless it is a defending team encroaching and a goal has been scored. As Risso mentioned, VAR does not recheck if the goal goes straight in, only on someone scoring / clearing on a follow up action. it is up to the on field officials to decide encroachment otherwise.
Post by: brontebilly on September 17, 2023, 10:30:19 PM
My lad bought himself some Match Attax football cards today. He's over the moon with his Watkins Golden Baller card which is very very rare apparently.
It has Watkins with full marks for Attack, Defence and Control.....
Control wasn't bad for the play that won the game winning penalty.
With that chance in the first half Johnstone, and most of the fans behind the goal, knew where he going to put that shot. Kind of happens when a forward is low in confidence that they signpost where they will shoot just to get it on target. Needed to shape like Luiz for the penalty and put it into the near side of the goal. He was very unfortunate with that chip too hitting the inside of the post and bouncing off back of the keepers head. The goals will come.
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 18, 2023, 12:26:42 AM
Given the cup competitions we will likely face a shoot out at some point so hopefully he's practising them in training regularly.
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on September 18, 2023, 01:05:56 AM
I mean yes, I can’t work out why Konsa hasn’t figured in a squad.
I think it's somehow connected to the fact that Southgate is a gigantic bellend.
I loathe him. I have very little interest in England anyway, but I can’t wait for the day he fucks off and falls flat on his face back in club football.
I could see a Crystal Palace giving him a go before it quickly goes wrong after a bright start. Then another premier league club probably won’t give him a go depending on how badly it goes. The profile of club that would be interested would be no higher than that.
Very good shout that, LeonW. Can absolutely see Palace going for Southgate after Roy leaves this season and it will be about as big a job in league football that he could he get. None of the top 8 would touch him and he should count his lucky stars should he get the Palace job.
Post by: Somniloquism on September 18, 2023, 08:56:49 AM
Could even see Spam as well if they give Moyes the heave-ho. But I suspect he will go to some Saudi team if they haven't given up wasting their money on football in their country.
Post by: LeeB on September 18, 2023, 09:01:25 AM
My lad bought himself some Match Attax football cards today. He's over the moon with his Watkins Golden Baller card which is very very rare apparently.
It has Watkins with full marks for Attack, Defence and Control.....
Control wasn't bad for the play that won the game winning penalty.
With that chance in the first half Johnstone, and most of the fans behind the goal, knew where he going to put that shot. Kind of happens when a forward is low in confidence that they signpost where they will shoot just to get it on target. Needed to shape like Luiz for the penalty and put it into the near side of the goal. He was very unfortunate with that chip too hitting the inside of the post and bouncing off back of the keepers head. The goals will come.
This.
Post by: Hookeysmith on September 18, 2023, 12:17:44 PM
As much as i love Duran and think he will be a superstar in the future - he is not ready to replace Watkins in the team play as yet
Post by: Risso on September 18, 2023, 12:56:16 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 18, 2023, 12:57:34 PM
People were talking him about getting closer to 20 goals this season, he's going to have to go some now to even get 15.
Not really, we have some pretty recent evidence that he can go on long runs of scoring week after week.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 18, 2023, 01:08:41 PM
People were talking him about getting closer to 20 goals this season, he's going to have to go some now to even get 15.
Not really, we have some pretty recent evidence that he can go on long runs of scoring week after week.
Plus the amount of service he gets from this Villa side and his ability to be in the right place at the right time, he's not going to miss them all. Twenty is more than doable.
Post by: Risso on September 18, 2023, 01:17:45 PM
People were talking him about getting closer to 20 goals this season, he's going to have to go some now to even get 15.
Not really, we have some pretty recent evidence that he can go on long runs of scoring week after week.
Plus the amount of service he gets from this Villa side and his ability to be in the right place at the right time, he's not going to miss them all. Twenty is more than doable.
I’d bet you an expensive bottle of wine he gets nowhere near, but, you know….. 😉
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 18, 2023, 01:24:18 PM
People were talking him about getting closer to 20 goals this season, he's going to have to go some now to even get 15.
Not really, we have some pretty recent evidence that he can go on long runs of scoring week after week.
Plus the amount of service he gets from this Villa side and his ability to be in the right place at the right time, he's not going to miss them all. Twenty is more than doable.
I’d bet you an expensive bottle of wine he gets nowhere near, but, you know….. 😉
Can we count all cup competitions too, not just league?
Post by: Risso on September 18, 2023, 01:30:25 PM
People were talking him about getting closer to 20 goals this season, he's going to have to go some now to even get 15.
Not really, we have some pretty recent evidence that he can go on long runs of scoring week after week.
And much more recent evidence of long non-scoring streaks. But overall he's a 1 in 3ish striker, so 33 games left, probably 11 or 12 goals. 13 tops.
Post by: LeeB on September 18, 2023, 01:34:18 PM
I'd say if he stays first choice all season he'll get between 15-20.
Post by: paul_e on September 18, 2023, 01:42:11 PM
People were talking him about getting closer to 20 goals this season, he's going to have to go some now to even get 15.
Not really, we have some pretty recent evidence that he can go on long runs of scoring week after week.
Plus the amount of service he gets from this Villa side and his ability to be in the right place at the right time, he's not going to miss them all. Twenty is more than doable.
I’d bet you an expensive bottle of wine he gets nowhere near, but, you know….. 😉
I don't gamble anyway but I'm not saying I'd bet on it even if I did, just pointing out that he got 15 last season having been on 3 after 19 games.
Post by: Somniloquism on September 18, 2023, 02:14:22 PM
People were talking him about getting closer to 20 goals this season, he's going to have to go some now to even get 15.
Not really, we have some pretty recent evidence that he can go on long runs of scoring week after week.
And much more recent evidence of long non-scoring streaks. But overall he's a 1 in 3ish striker, so 33 games left, probably 11 or 12 goals. 13 tops.
Under Emery in the league, he has 15 in 29. So a 1 in 2 striker for him. 33 games left so probably 15-16, 18 tops.
However, in his last 11 in the League for Emery, he is on 1 in 11. That was since he scored two in a league game against Newcastle which was the first time he had scored two in a league game for us since November 2020.
Lots of ways to interpret the stats, but this season he has also unlucky not to score as well as bad finishing. I'm hoping his first in the league starts off another streak.
Post by: Risso on September 18, 2023, 02:19:26 PM
I don't gamble anyway but I'm not saying I'd bet on it even if I did, just pointing out that he got 15 last season having been on 3 after 19 games.
That comment was to Mark.
Post by: AV84 on September 18, 2023, 02:29:06 PM
I might be missing one in there but he scored 15 in the league last season and at least 11 of them came between January and the end of the season.
So no need to panic about whether he can still hit 20.
Post by: passport1 on September 18, 2023, 02:34:46 PM
Nothing against the lad he's just not good enough for the level this manager wants us to compete at.
Post by: paul_e on September 18, 2023, 02:36:50 PM
I don't gamble anyway but I'm not saying I'd bet on it even if I did, just pointing out that he got 15 last season having been on 3 after 19 games.
That comment was to Mark.
I know but I wanted to reply and it would've felt weird to not mention the betting bit.
Post by: 85kota on September 18, 2023, 02:38:42 PM
Post by: supertom on September 18, 2023, 03:08:46 PM
As long as we're winning and everyone else bangs em in, that's enough. These mythical 20+ goals in the league front men are few and far between and they cost a fortune. Get 25-30 between Ollie and Diaby and maybe 15 assists between em and that's great. I'd fancy Duran to hit double figures too.
I think we'd really struggle to replace what Ollie gives us. Maybe you can recalibrate in the same way Man City did to fit Haaland in, but that's easier when you spend what they do.
I suspect Ollie will score one and go on a purple patch, then have 5 games without a goal, then repeat. He's had 5 big chances and hit the woodwork once this season. It'll come. But he's definitely a 10-15 player.
I'm more worried about our defence than our attacking quality at the moment.
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 24, 2023, 04:37:27 PM
Post by: Smirker on September 24, 2023, 04:41:50 PM
Good goal.
Post by: AV84 on September 24, 2023, 05:08:28 PM
I'd start him against Everton, even just first half, try to keep the goals coming now.
Post by: Pete3206 on September 24, 2023, 05:10:10 PM
Post by: AV84 on September 24, 2023, 05:11:38 PM
I'd start Duran against Everton. He needs game time and I think he'll give them a lot of problems.
I think that's probably what we'll do. Maybe Durán coming good lately has lit a fire under Ollie.
Post by: Villafirst on September 24, 2023, 05:11:49 PM
Post by: The Man With A Stick on September 24, 2023, 05:12:21 PM
Post by: LeeB on September 24, 2023, 06:36:44 PM
He'll go on a bit of a run now, I'm sure of it.
Yeah, and he's scored loads against Brighton.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on September 24, 2023, 06:44:35 PM
He'll go on a bit of a run now, I'm sure of it.
I won't believe it until Smirker says it. 8)
Post by: Aldridge Villa on September 24, 2023, 06:54:29 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 24, 2023, 06:59:03 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on September 24, 2023, 07:00:13 PM
Think my mother in law could have saved that but if it means it’s the start of a goal scoring run for Ollie then job done.Straight through her legs too.
Post by: darren woolley on September 24, 2023, 07:14:00 PM
Post by: jwarry on September 25, 2023, 04:09:56 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/74scs4b/IMG-5982.jpg) (https://ibb.co/74scs4b)
Post by: Dave P on September 25, 2023, 05:02:07 PM
I'm happy about this. Cover til Wesley gets fit and some competition in different positions. I've got a reverse Han Solo about this one.
Every so often I like to visit the first page of a long thread to see what the temperature was at the time of thread being raised. This made me laugh. Cover til Wesley gets fit. Lol.
Post by: paul_e on September 25, 2023, 06:06:16 PM
Looks like he didn’t make himself very popular down there 😂
(https://i.ibb.co/74scs4b/IMG-5982.jpg) (https://ibb.co/74scs4b)
Some angry gammon in that picture.
Post by: Richard on September 25, 2023, 06:10:21 PM
Looks like he didn’t make himself very popular down there 😂
(https://i.ibb.co/74scs4b/IMG-5982.jpg) (https://ibb.co/74scs4b)
Some angry gammon in that picture.
The 2 women at the back are particularly amusing.
Post by: chrisw1 on September 25, 2023, 06:14:17 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 25, 2023, 06:21:35 PM
Looks like he didn’t make himself very popular down there 😂
(https://i.ibb.co/74scs4b/IMG-5982.jpg) (https://ibb.co/74scs4b)
Some angry gammon in that picture.
The 2 women at the back are particularly amusing.
The bright red guy in the top left is my favourite, blood pressure is through the roof.
Post by: Somniloquism on September 25, 2023, 06:23:19 PM
Looks like he didn’t make himself very popular down there 😂
(https://i.ibb.co/74scs4b/IMG-5982.jpg) (https://ibb.co/74scs4b)
Some angry gammon in that picture.
The two black people look shocked. Maybe they heard some of the names being shouted by said women.
Post by: Bad English on September 25, 2023, 07:01:36 PM
I liked his celebration. He grabbed the badge which I hope is a good sign in terms of his contract.He was simply trying to point the lion on the right direction, I think.
Post by: frankmosswasmyuncle on September 25, 2023, 07:08:48 PM
Very good.I liked his celebration. He grabbed the badge which I hope is a good sign in terms of his contract.He was simply trying to point the lion on the right direction, I think.
Post by: Steve67 on September 25, 2023, 07:35:12 PM
Post by: Risso on September 25, 2023, 08:02:43 PM
Looks like he didn’t make himself very popular down there 😂
(https://i.ibb.co/74scs4b/IMG-5982.jpg) (https://ibb.co/74scs4b)
Some angry gammon in that picture.
The two black people look shocked. Maybe they heard some of the names being shouted by said women.
As does the world’s most ginger man.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 25, 2023, 08:05:33 PM
Post by: RamboandBruno on September 25, 2023, 08:10:38 PM
I liked his celebration. He grabbed the badge which I hope is a good sign in terms of his contract.
I thought exactly the same, then castigated myself for thinking it. Vowed never to think about this stuff after being far too emotionally involved in the Grealish summer, than a man of my age should ever be about a footballer.
Ollie does need to get on and sign the contract though.
Post by: Clampy on September 25, 2023, 08:24:51 PM
Looks like he didn’t make himself very popular down there 😂
(https://i.ibb.co/74scs4b/IMG-5982.jpg) (https://ibb.co/74scs4b)
Some angry gammon in that picture.
The two black people look shocked. Maybe they heard some of the names being shouted by said women.
As does the world’s most ginger man.
I like the chap in front of the man with the orange t.shirt. He doesn't seem to have noticed that we've scored or where the fuck he is.
Post by: Smithy on September 25, 2023, 08:53:57 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/fNsb1q9/Chelsea-fans.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fNsb1q9)
Post by: pablo_picasso on September 25, 2023, 09:03:11 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 26, 2023, 12:51:20 AM
Post by: algy on September 26, 2023, 06:04:23 AM
Underrated but still good is the chap wearing a grey hoodie, standing to the left of the very ginger bloke. Looks like he belongs in On The Buses or something, "Phwooooaaaarrrr".
Post by: Bad English on September 26, 2023, 06:13:10 AM
Post by: Drummond on September 26, 2023, 07:36:38 AM
Day tripper, top right, taking a photo of Watkins,
Post by: dicedlam on September 26, 2023, 08:41:02 AM
Post by: algy on September 26, 2023, 08:49:41 AM
Post by: pablo_picasso on September 26, 2023, 10:50:45 AM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 26, 2023, 11:06:20 AM
Post by: OCD on September 26, 2023, 12:57:47 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 26, 2023, 01:06:46 PM
Post by: LeeB on September 26, 2023, 01:25:49 PM
The guy behind the ginge looks a bit like Tim Martin sucking on a lemon.
The ginger lad needs a speech bubble above his head saying ' Harumph'
Post by: Villafirst on September 26, 2023, 04:45:54 PM
Post by: Clampy on September 26, 2023, 04:53:59 PM
Why aren't the stewards ejecting some of these morons for obscene language and gestures??
How do you know they didn't? It's only a photo taken straight after a goal.
Post by: chrisw1 on September 26, 2023, 05:01:33 PM
Why aren't the stewards ejecting some of these morons for obscene language and gestures??Do we really want a world where fans are kicked out for flicking the bird at a player goading them?
Jfc.
Post by: Nev on September 26, 2023, 05:19:06 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 26, 2023, 05:39:59 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on September 26, 2023, 06:15:58 PM
I may be in the minority but I'd rather have the fans flicking the V's rather than taking fucking photographs.
Absolutely this, can't understand why anyone* has their phone out when the game is going on. Ban them for life, I say.
*Over the age of 6.
Post by: LeeB on September 26, 2023, 06:17:23 PM
Post by: Vegas on September 26, 2023, 09:41:33 PM
Why aren't the stewards ejecting some of these morons for obscene language and gestures??Do we really want a world where fans are kicked out for flicking the bird at a player goading them?
Jfc.
If someone scores against us, I will most definitely be giving them or their fans some finger-based abuse.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 26, 2023, 09:46:48 PM
Post by: Drummond on September 26, 2023, 10:59:56 PM
I may be in the minority but I'd rather have the fans flicking the V's rather than taking fucking photographs.
Absolutely this, can't understand why anyone* has their phone out when the game is going on. Ban them for life, I say.
*Over the age of 6.
I take the odd photo, because I like taking them, and it serves as a memory of the game. I get a shot of the line up and the scoreboard at the end, and one or two during the game too.
Post by: john e on September 26, 2023, 11:02:12 PM
I may be in the minority but I'd rather have the fans flicking the V's rather than taking fucking photographs.
Absolutely this, can't understand why anyone* has their phone out when the game is going on. Ban them for life, I say.
*Over the age of 6.
I take the odd photo, because I like taking them, and it serves as a memory of the game. I get a shot of the line up and the scoreboard at the end, and one or two during the game too.
Ok David Bailey
Post by: AV84 on September 26, 2023, 11:38:23 PM
Post by: sid1964 on September 27, 2023, 07:13:01 AM
Post by: LeeB on September 27, 2023, 07:51:06 AM
I may be in the minority but I'd rather have the fans flicking the V's rather than taking fucking photographs.
Absolutely this, can't understand why anyone* has their phone out when the game is going on. Ban them for life, I say.
*Over the age of 6.
I take the odd photo, because I like taking them, and it serves as a memory of the game. I get a shot of the line up and the scoreboard at the end, and one or two during the game too.
Ok David Bailey
Ha ha, you have to be of a certain age to remember 'David Bailey' getting thrown at anyone making an effort with a photo.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on September 27, 2023, 08:49:53 AM
Post by: Chap on September 27, 2023, 09:07:43 AM
Post by: AV84 on September 27, 2023, 09:09:08 AM
It also mentioned Chelsea, why the fcuk would he won’t to go there!
He struck up a nice relationship with the fans there at the weekend.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 27, 2023, 09:10:26 AM
Post by: Ian. on September 27, 2023, 09:15:12 AM
Ha ha, that did take me back some years!I may be in the minority but I'd rather have the fans flicking the V's rather than taking fucking photographs.
Absolutely this, can't understand why anyone* has their phone out when the game is going on. Ban them for life, I say.
*Over the age of 6.
I take the odd photo, because I like taking them, and it serves as a memory of the game. I get a shot of the line up and the scoreboard at the end, and one or two during the game too.
Ok David Bailey
Ha ha, you have to be of a certain age to remember 'David Bailey' getting thrown at anyone making an effort with a photo.
Post by: Risso on September 27, 2023, 09:34:42 AM
I take the odd photo, because I like taking them, and it serves as a memory of the game. I get a shot of the line up and the scoreboard at the end, and one or two during the game too.
That's fair enough, it's the people holding their camera out videoing every single corner and free kick that piss me off.
Post by: Drummond on September 27, 2023, 11:11:49 AM
I may be in the minority but I'd rather have the fans flicking the V's rather than taking fucking photographs.
Absolutely this, can't understand why anyone* has their phone out when the game is going on. Ban them for life, I say.
*Over the age of 6.
I take the odd photo, because I like taking them, and it serves as a memory of the game. I get a shot of the line up and the scoreboard at the end, and one or two during the game too.
Ok David Bailey
Ha ha, you have to be of a certain age to remember 'David Bailey' getting thrown at anyone making an effort with a photo.
And unfortunately I'm of that age!
Post by: Dr Butler on September 27, 2023, 11:22:44 AM
UTV
The Doc
Post by: rob_bridge on September 27, 2023, 11:23:43 AM
I take the odd photo, because I like taking them, and it serves as a memory of the game. I get a shot of the line up and the scoreboard at the end, and one or two during the game too.
That's fair enough, it's the people holding their camera out videoing every single corner and free kick that piss me off.
Yes there should be a code of etiquette. My occasional visits are used to send a small number of photos to interested parties on my small number of interested social media channels.
Post by: WassallVillain on September 27, 2023, 11:46:04 AM
Just the BBC gossip page but apparently Watkins' agent has been talking to Arsenal about securing a move. Meanwhile we're still in talks, negotiating a new contract with him, and I'm sure both those things are unrelated.
That would explain the presence of Martin and Ronan Kemp in that photo. Scouting him for the Arsenal.
Post by: dave shelley on September 27, 2023, 12:39:53 PM
I may be in the minority but I'd rather have the fans flicking the V's rather than taking fucking photographs.
Absolutely this, can't understand why anyone* has their phone out when the game is going on. Ban them for life, I say.
*Over the age of 6.
I take the odd photo, because I like taking them, and it serves as a memory of the game. I get a shot of the line up and the scoreboard at the end, and one or two during the game too.
Ok David Bailey
Ha ha, you have to be of a certain age to remember 'David Bailey' getting thrown at anyone making an effort with a photo.
I'm old enough to remember Cecil Heaton, one of Brenda's official photographers. I think he used gunpowder flash!
Post by: trinityoap on September 27, 2023, 12:48:51 PM
Post by: dave shelley on September 27, 2023, 12:55:35 PM
Beaton?
That's what I typed but autocorrect did it's thing and I didn't notice! :-[
Post by: trinityoap on September 27, 2023, 01:07:25 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 27, 2023, 01:18:10 PM
If he wants to go to Arsenal, Arsenal can have him. Good luck with not having any competition there.
Ha! Good luck too with their oh so not self entitled fans when he goes on another of his non-scoring streaks. I somehow think his running around a lot won't be that much appreciated as it is here. Still, if he wants to go..
Post by: Clampy on September 27, 2023, 01:24:20 PM
Post by: AV84 on September 27, 2023, 01:26:25 PM
Why are people getting uppity about Watkins supposedly going to Arsenal based on gossip by websites called Football Transfers?
Yep. I posted it to make the point that the timing is interesting. I didn't expect people to a) think it was actually happening and b) have a pop at Watkins about it.
Post by: eamonn on September 27, 2023, 01:26:33 PM
Star of the show is the accountant at the top in the middle giving it the double 'V's. Highlight of his life.
This made me laugh a lot. Reminds me of my old boss.
We need more pictures like these, opposition fans narked at our goalscorer. Some of the observations on here have made it the funniest thread in a while. If he goes to Arsenal in a part-ex for Eddie Inketiah and a bag of peanuts at least we'll always have this.
Post by: john e on September 27, 2023, 01:37:55 PM
I may be in the minority but I'd rather have the fans flicking the V's rather than taking fucking photographs.
Absolutely this, can't understand why anyone* has their phone out when the game is going on. Ban them for life, I say.
*Over the age of 6.
I take the odd photo, because I like taking them, and it serves as a memory of the game. I get a shot of the line up and the scoreboard at the end, and one or two during the game too.
Ok David Bailey
Ha ha, you have to be of a certain age to remember 'David Bailey' getting thrown at anyone making an effort with a photo.
And unfortunately I'm of that age!
Bailey had the biggest trump card of all that trumped all others
He was once married to Catherine Denueve
Post by: Brend'Watkins on September 27, 2023, 01:59:53 PM
Star of the show is the accountant at the top in the middle giving it the double 'V's. Highlight of his life.
This made me laugh a lot. Reminds me of my old boss.
We need more pictures like these, opposition fans narked at our goalscorer. Some of the observations on here have made it the funniest thread in a while. If he goes to Arsenal in a part-ex for Eddie Inketiah and a bag of peanuts at least we'll always have this.
To keep with the David Bailey theme, fans under 30 will be clueless as to what he's doing.
Post by: cdward on September 27, 2023, 02:27:06 PM
He is setting about getting the best deal for his player, and one of the oldest tricks in the book, is to tout your player around at a few different clubs and play them off against each other.
It doesn't mean the player wants to leave necessarily, but it does mean the agent has more leverage to negotiate a better deal for more money when he has a couple of clubs interested.
Didn't Emile Smith-Rowe and his agent do the same with us. Stoked up our interest by claiming the player could be tempted to move away, and then he signs a nice new big contract to stay at Arsenal.
I wouldn't read too much into it, it's an agent "leaking it"/playing games to earn himself a bigger slice of commission.
Post by: eamonn on September 27, 2023, 02:43:05 PM
Post by: The Charmer on September 27, 2023, 03:10:15 PM
Star of the show is the accountant at the top in the middle giving it the double 'V's. Highlight of his life., , , and I didn't even know that Alan Bennett was a Chelsea fan!
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 27, 2023, 03:22:24 PM
The timing from his agent (if true) could be better. The window is now closed, maybe he was waiting for his client to score this season in the PL. It reminds me of an old direct marketing story where an US agency tested a sample mailing list, sending prospective clients a box with a goldfish in a bag of water. The test sample gave a great return so they decided to go full on with the complete mailing list, sending out hundreds of thousands of goldfish. What they failed to factor in was timing. It rolled out in winter and thousands of people received a goldfish in a block of ice.
It is strange that Watkins hasn't signed a new contract as it seems to have been on the table since the end of last season.
Post by: olaftab on September 27, 2023, 03:27:37 PM
I can't see Arsenal being interested, they already have a few one-in-three, hard-working strikers.They also have a 1 in 30 striker called Havertz. They paid £70M for him so Ollie is fair price at £140M.
Post by: pablo_picasso on September 27, 2023, 03:52:44 PM
Watkins agent is doing exactly what he is paid to do.
He is setting about getting the best deal for his player, and one of the oldest tricks in the book, is to tout your player around at a few different clubs and play them off against each other.
It doesn't mean the player wants to leave necessarily, but it does mean the agent has more leverage to negotiate a better deal for more money when he has a couple of clubs interested.
Didn't Emile Smith-Rowe and his agent do the same with us. Stoked up our interest by claiming the player could be tempted to move away, and then he signs a nice new big contract to stay at Arsenal.
I wouldn't read too much into it, it's an agent "leaking it"/playing games to earn himself a bigger slice of commission.
His agent should wait until he starts on one of his goalscoring runs before trying to gain leverage over the club...
Post by: AV84 on September 27, 2023, 04:03:43 PM
Post by: eamonn on September 27, 2023, 05:30:47 PM
Arsenal like anybody else would be interested if they can get him on the cheap. The fact Watkins is an Arsenal fan and his only hope of ever playing for England again under Southgate would be to move club, any club.
The timing from his agent (if true) could be better. The window is now closed, maybe he was waiting for his client to score this season in the PL. It reminds me of an old direct marketing story where an US agency tested a sample mailing list, sending prospective clients a box with a goldfish in a bag of water. The test sample gave a great return so they decided to go full on with the complete mailing list, sending out hundreds of thousands of goldfish. What they failed to factor in was timing. It rolled out in winter and thousands of people received a goldfish in a block of ice.
It is strange that Watkins hasn't signed a new contract as it seems to have been on the table since the end of last season.
When he leaves us he'll say that playing for Villa was too much like living in a goldfish bowl (I believe Jermaine Jenas said it first (?) after leaving...Newcastle (or Forest).
Post by: john e on September 27, 2023, 06:11:24 PM
Arsenal like anybody else would be interested if they can get him on the cheap. The fact Watkins is an Arsenal fan and his only hope of ever playing for England again under Southgate would be to move club, any club.
The timing from his agent (if true) could be better. The window is now closed, maybe he was waiting for his client to score this season in the PL. It reminds me of an old direct marketing story where an US agency tested a sample mailing list, sending prospective clients a box with a goldfish in a bag of water. The test sample gave a great return so they decided to go full on with the complete mailing list, sending out hundreds of thousands of goldfish. What they failed to factor in was timing. It rolled out in winter and thousands of people received a goldfish in a block of ice.
It is strange that Watkins hasn't signed a new contract as it seems to have been on the table since the end of last season.
When he leaves us he'll say that playing for Villa was too much like living in a goldfish bowl (I believe Jermaine Jenas said it first (?) after leaving...Newcastle (or Forest).
I think Pink Floyd also said it
Post by: Bad English on September 28, 2023, 11:05:59 AM
Post by: Risso on September 28, 2023, 11:10:31 AM
"If you hit double figures by January, we'll think about improving the offer Ollie."
Might as well just put him on the train to London in that case.
Post by: AV84 on September 29, 2023, 01:21:48 PM
Post by: eamonn on September 29, 2023, 02:52:10 PM
Post by: PaulTheVillan on September 29, 2023, 03:06:22 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 30, 2023, 01:19:15 PM
Post by: Risso on September 30, 2023, 01:22:54 PM
Up to 5th in our PL top scorers list having passed Barry and Benteke. Now 1 behind JPA.
Going to have to go some to get 30 this season, mind.
Post by: AV84 on September 30, 2023, 01:23:56 PM
Up to 5th in our PL top scorers list having passed Barry and Benteke. Now 1 behind JPA.
Going to have to go some to get 30 this season, mind.
I'm pretty sure he didn't score until late October last year, and managed a decent haul for the season. He's ahead of schedule really.
Post by: Axl Rose on September 30, 2023, 01:24:25 PM
Up to 5th in our PL top scorers list having passed Barry and Benteke. Now 1 behind JPA.
Going to have to go some to get 30 this season, mind.
😂
Shhhhh! You're not allowed to say anything remotely negative, mate!
He's been on fire today, though. I really like Ollie, but just wish he was more consistent.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 30, 2023, 01:30:14 PM
Post by: LeeB on September 30, 2023, 01:31:55 PM
Post by: Axl Rose on September 30, 2023, 01:33:15 PM
6 and a half league games, 3 goals and 2 assists.
Pretty decent.
Hopefully more to come.
Post by: Smirker on September 30, 2023, 01:33:20 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 30, 2023, 01:57:34 PM
4 goals and 2 assists in less than 7 league games.
Post by: Dave on September 30, 2023, 02:06:10 PM
4 goals and 2 assists in less than 7 league games.
Third highest scorer in the league now too, behind only Haaland and Son.
Post by: AV84 on September 30, 2023, 02:06:18 PM
Post by: Bad English on September 30, 2023, 02:12:41 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 30, 2023, 02:19:03 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 30, 2023, 02:42:34 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/bHc6YRf/IMG-0597.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bHc6YRf)
Post by: Risso on September 30, 2023, 02:50:13 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 30, 2023, 02:52:39 PM
Southgate left just as JJ scored.
So in his mind it never happened
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 30, 2023, 02:53:22 PM
Southgate spent the game working out how he keeps him out of the next squad. And I’m sure he didn’t even notice Konsa.
It wouldn't surprise me if Portugal don't make the decision for Southgate. A chance for him to play for a top footballing national side.
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 30, 2023, 02:55:15 PM
Southgate spent the game working out how he keeps him out of the next squad. And I’m sure he didn’t even notice Konsa.
It wouldn't surprise me if Portugal don't make the decision for Southgate. A chance for him to play for a top footballing national side.
That would be fucking ace if he did that.
Post by: supertom on September 30, 2023, 02:56:31 PM
Ollie is class. Let's be way better in the cups so we've got trophies to play for still when the Jan window rolls around and get that contract sorted asap.
Post by: AV84 on September 30, 2023, 03:01:29 PM
Southgate spent the game working out how he keeps him out of the next squad. And I’m sure he didn’t even notice Konsa.
It wouldn't surprise me if Portugal don't make the decision for Southgate. A chance for him to play for a top footballing national side.
Edit - never mind, stupid question
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 30, 2023, 03:04:11 PM
Post by: supertom on September 30, 2023, 03:09:07 PM
As the other games kick off, so he's 1 played 1 games more, only Haaland has more PL goal contributions this season than Ollie's 7. Salah also has 7.Yep. Even in the first five games he wasn't playing badly. He was still working his bollocks off as normal, getting chances. His worst performance of the season was probably Chelsea, and he got the goal.
So basically, if people still want us to upgrade on Ollie, we're looking at Haaland, Salah, and maybe Son (I'd prefer Ollie)? Kylian Mbappe? Always a gamble buying from the French league mind you. :p
Post by: Dave on September 30, 2023, 03:12:10 PM
Southgate spent the game working out how he keeps him out of the next squad. And I’m sure he didn’t even notice Konsa.
It wouldn't surprise me if Portugal don't make the decision for Southgate. A chance for him to play for a top footballing national side.
That would be fucking ace if he did that.
Considering how good their midfield and attack are, Konsa and Ruben Dias would be a pretty impressive defence to add to that.
Post by: pablo_picasso on September 30, 2023, 03:23:38 PM
Post by: rob_bridge on September 30, 2023, 03:55:04 PM
He works tirelessly for the team scores by any measure a decent number as well as assisting more than most.
We know he can fluff his line and his first touch ain’t great but jeeps getting a 15 goal a season striker Costa best part of 100m nowadays
Post by: Eckybloke on September 30, 2023, 05:31:34 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 30, 2023, 05:35:42 PM
Post by: Smirker on September 30, 2023, 05:41:17 PM
Listened to his interview after the game. Am I reading too much into the contract question where he didn’t seem willing to really engage about it?
Yes.
Post by: Eckybloke on September 30, 2023, 05:42:46 PM
Post by: OCD on September 30, 2023, 06:59:03 PM
Ramsey and Moreno coming back will only add to our goalscoring threat. Zaniolo and Diaby are still adjusting to the league. We're only going to get sharper.
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on September 30, 2023, 07:26:40 PM
Post by: Olneythelonely on September 30, 2023, 09:55:33 PM
Post by: olaftab on September 30, 2023, 10:22:40 PM
Yes. What did you expect him to say in the middle of negotiations?Listened to his interview after the game. Am I reading too much into the contract question where he didn’t seem willing to really engage about it?
Yes.
Post by: AV84 on September 30, 2023, 10:23:33 PM
Post by: Dante Lavelli on September 30, 2023, 10:29:19 PM
Post by: Dave on September 30, 2023, 11:19:07 PM
More goals since last Christmas than Eddie Nketiah has since 2020 and the Covid lockdown days.
Good work Gareth.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 30, 2023, 11:24:09 PM
Post by: AV84 on September 30, 2023, 11:25:26 PM
More goals in the last five weeks than Eddie Nketiah has since last Christmas.
More goals since last Christmas than Eddie Nketiah has since 2020 and the Covid lockdown days.
Good work Gareth.
We don't need goals where we're going (out of the competition in the knockout stages)
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 30, 2023, 11:26:41 PM
Post by: AV84 on September 30, 2023, 11:27:43 PM
He's open to listen to offers was the exclusive from that Romano fella on Thursday.
I remember a while ago reading that when asked where he gets his information from, Romano said that a lot of it actually comes directly from players/agents themselves, usually because they're trying to engineer something. Sometimes a move, sometimes a better contract offer.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 30, 2023, 11:30:12 PM
He's open to listen to offers was the exclusive from that Romano fella on Thursday.
To be honest that’d make sense. We need to show him we’re the offer to take.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 30, 2023, 11:30:36 PM
Post by: Dave on September 30, 2023, 11:31:27 PM
He's open to listen to offers was the exclusive from that Romano fella on Thursday.
Hell of an exclusive from the tap-in merchant.
To make this a story, there are players out there who aren't "open to listen to offers" are there?
"Real Madrid want to pay you a billion pounds per minute"
"No, sorry. I cannot listen to this"
The prick.
Post by: andyh on September 30, 2023, 11:33:59 PM
Spurs maybe, with the Kane money, but he wouldn’t go there
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 30, 2023, 11:44:05 PM
He's open to listen to offers was the exclusive from that Romano fella on Thursday.
Hell of an exclusive from the tap-in merchant.
To make this a story, there are players out there who aren't "open to listen to offers" are there?
"Real Madrid want to pay you a billion pounds per minute"
"No, sorry. I cannot listen to this"
The prick.
You're right about the tap-ins. Some think he's brilliant but I've never seen it myself though I don't do twitter.
Post by: LeeB on September 30, 2023, 11:46:47 PM
Other than Man City, I doubt there are any British clubs who could afford him.
Spurs maybe, with the Kane money, but he wouldn’t go there
I said this earlier, he's going nowhere and I think the new contract will be done by the end of the week.
Post by: AV84 on October 01, 2023, 12:13:33 AM
Post by: Rory on October 01, 2023, 03:07:38 AM
Other than Man City, I doubt there are any British clubs who could afford him.
Spurs maybe, with the Kane money, but he wouldn’t go there
I said this earlier, he's going nowhere and I think the new contract will be done by the end of the week.
If he doesn't sign that deal and Arsenal offer £80m in January, we'd accept, although I think he's worth more than that.
He seems a bright and decent young man, and I think he is happy here and values the investment we have made in him.
He may not be entirely ruthless, but he is a fantastic player to lead the attack; works tirelessly, gets his share of goals and assists, and his movement and work rate creates so much space.
I think he's great, and I think Unai will be enough to convince him to stay.
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 01, 2023, 07:19:29 AM
Post by: Monty on October 01, 2023, 09:17:05 AM
Post by: Chris Smith on October 01, 2023, 09:28:06 AM
I think Arsenal in January if they have enough FFP to pay the £80 million.
I can’t see us selling him in January, it would completely derail the season.
Post by: wittonwarrior on October 01, 2023, 09:30:16 AM
Post by: Ian. on October 01, 2023, 09:32:18 AM
No matter what Ollie is not a top 6 striker. Not clinical enough. He reminds me goal wise like a Tony Cottee does it in spurts. its consistency that you need to be held up as a top top striker though.
Name a better striker in the teams that are above us or expected to be above us? Harland aside.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 01, 2023, 09:37:04 AM
No matter what Ollie is not a top 6 striker. Not clinical enough. He reminds me goal wise like a Tony Cottee does it in spurts. its consistency that you need to be held up as a top top striker though.
Of course he is. The fact you cite Tony Cottee shows your reference point is skewed. His game is more rounded than just scoring goals, his role in getting the team goals is massive. Is he the most clinical? No, but his all round game easily makes him a top 6 striker.
Post by: Rudy65 on October 01, 2023, 09:37:23 AM
Post by: Ian. on October 01, 2023, 09:39:47 AM
Post by: Monty on October 01, 2023, 09:40:05 AM
Post by: Clampy on October 01, 2023, 09:43:38 AM
No matter what Ollie is not a top 6 striker. Not clinical enough. He reminds me goal wise like a Tony Cottee does it in spurts. its consistency that you need to be held up as a top top striker though.
Is that your only take from yesterday's game? Bit odd really.
Post by: AV84 on October 01, 2023, 09:45:50 AM
Toney is available in January, apparently, and probably costs less than Ollie.
Post by: RamboandBruno on October 01, 2023, 09:46:22 AM
Beat me to it. The day he scores his second hatrick of the season and his 50th premier league for us in 3 and a bit seasons, seems a very odd time to come out and essentially be critical of him.No matter what Ollie is not a top 6 striker. Not clinical enough. He reminds me goal wise like a Tony Cottee does it in spurts. its consistency that you need to be held up as a top top striker though.
Is that your only take from yesterday's game? Bit odd really.
Post by: darren woolley on October 01, 2023, 11:14:39 AM
Post by: Ian. on October 01, 2023, 11:31:32 AM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 01, 2023, 12:31:59 PM
He's open to listen to offers was the exclusive from that Romano fella on Thursday.
To be honest that’d make sense. We need to show him we’re the offer to take.
True but this has been dragging on since the end of last season and his existing contract has what, another season on it? No way would I let him go in January, he starts pretty much every game no matter him form, has a manager that believes in him and now has a striking partner who he seems very happy to be playing with.
I get the Arsenal temptation, he and all his family are fans and more than that, his agent can smell the money of a big transfer fee. He should reflect on what Villa have given him and show a bit of respect. We've been extremely patient and built this team to suit his game. If he still wants to leave, he can but only next summer and in the mean time he can sign a new contract. In case he hasn't noticed, we're not a charity.
Post by: Olneythelonely on October 01, 2023, 01:38:19 PM
No matter what Ollie is not a top 6 striker. Not clinical enough. He reminds me goal wise like a Tony Cottee does it in spurts. its consistency that you need to be held up as a top top striker though.
No matter what? Really? No matter what?
That seems to be more of a you issue, than a Watkins one.
He’s not a top 6 striker, yet he’s just scored a hat trick against the 4th place team, propelling us into 5th.
Strange take.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 01, 2023, 01:44:30 PM
Post by: Goldenballs on October 01, 2023, 01:59:37 PM
It'll be another 2 steps back. Hopefully he signs ASAP.
Post by: andyh on October 01, 2023, 02:06:12 PM
He’s our Rachel Daley !
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 01, 2023, 02:43:39 PM
Post by: Mellin on October 01, 2023, 02:50:56 PM
Starting to feel like a red flag, but hope he signs. Nice lad and worth a lot to us.
Post by: Dante Lavelli on October 01, 2023, 02:52:30 PM
Post by: KevinGage on October 01, 2023, 03:06:01 PM
We should be looking at north of £60 million for him if he does want to bail.
He'll be at the club four years this summer, so if he gets a serious offer from Arsenal or Chelsea etc and wants to go, it might be one of those weird deals that suits all parties.
Post by: olaftab on October 01, 2023, 03:12:14 PM
Do you reckon his pay would be back-dated if he signed the contract that’s been on the table since the summer?As it's normal upon signature a start date and an end date will be inserted for new liability.
Post by: AV84 on October 01, 2023, 04:43:06 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 01, 2023, 04:44:22 PM
it’s worse at gigs.
I take the odd photo, because I like taking them, and it serves as a memory of the game. I get a shot of the line up and the scoreboard at the end, and one or two during the game too.
That's fair enough, it's the people holding their camera out videoing every single corner and free kick that piss me off.
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 01, 2023, 04:47:45 PM
Post by: Ian. on October 01, 2023, 07:00:20 PM
Any decent striker should score loads in this sort of setup and tactic. Watkins is that.That’s the big thing with Watkins, he works the lines so well, his pressing and his general movement for others is crucial to how we play.
Post by: Gareth on October 01, 2023, 07:36:34 PM
No matter what Ollie is not a top 6 striker. Not clinical enough. He reminds me goal wise like a Tony Cottee does it in spurts. its consistency that you need to be held up as a top top striker though.
2022-2023 season Ollie got 15 Prem goals, the same as Arsenals top scorer who finished 2nd and 5 more than Brightons top scorer who finished top 6.
Fortunately we don’t all completely write him off with statements like ‘no matter what….’ - he will continue to develop…comparison to Cottee is way way off for me, Cottee offered very little if he wasn’t in the box but was decent finisher, Ollie is a massive part of how we play with his press and link up play and finding negativity after he has bagged a hat trick is a different take.
Post by: Astnor on October 01, 2023, 09:56:35 PM
Post by: brontebilly on October 01, 2023, 11:26:27 PM
Post by: MorrisNielson on October 03, 2023, 09:29:19 AM
Villa Goals – League & Cup:
58 - Albert Brown
52 - G.Barry
50 - J.Deehan
50 - D.Saunders
50 - O.Watkins
49 - C.Benteke
48 - J.Carew
48 - I.Hamilton
48 - M.Walters
Post by: AV82EC on October 03, 2023, 09:32:10 AM
Just catching up on the numberwang from the weekend. Watkins has now scored more that Carew & Benteke.
Villa Goals – League & Cup:
58 - Albert Brown
52 - G.Barry
50 - J.Deehan
50 - D.Saunders
50 - O.Watkins
49 - C.Benteke
48 - J.Carew
48 - I.Hamilton
48 - M.Walters
Where’s the best place to find this list MN?
Post by: Drummond on October 03, 2023, 09:42:26 AM
it’s worse at gigs.
I take the odd photo, because I like taking them, and it serves as a memory of the game. I get a shot of the line up and the scoreboard at the end, and one or two during the game too.
That's fair enough, it's the people holding their camera out videoing every single corner and free kick that piss me off.
Yep, getting back 10 yards is tricky.
Post by: MorrisNielson on October 03, 2023, 10:05:27 AM
You mean you don’t keep your own records?Just catching up on the numberwang from the weekend. Watkins has now scored more that Carew & Benteke.
Villa Goals – League & Cup:
58 - Albert Brown
52 - G.Barry
50 - J.Deehan
50 - D.Saunders
50 - O.Watkins
49 - C.Benteke
48 - J.Carew
48 - I.Hamilton
48 - M.Walters
Where’s the best place to find this list MN?
Don’t think there’s a definitive list easily available online.
https://www.avfchistory.co.uk is your best bet but it doesn’t do a list by scorers.
Post by: Drummond on October 03, 2023, 10:59:01 AM
# Player M. goals Pens Ratio
1 Billy Walker 478 215 3 0.45
2 Pongo Waring 216 158 0 0.73
3 Eric Houghton 298 135 22 0.45
4 Johnny Dixon 387 132 0 0.34
5 Len Capewell 144 88 0 0.61
6 Dai Astley 151 87 0 0.58
7 George Brown 113 79 3 0.7
Dicky York 355 79 0 0.22
9 Peter McParland 252 75 0 0.3
10 Peter Withe 182 74 0 0.41
11Gabriel Agbonlahor 322 73 0 0.23
Dwight Yorke 231 73 5 0.32
13 Tony Hateley 127 68 6 0.54
14 Tommy Thompson 149 67 0 0.45
15 Joe Beresford 224 66 1 0.29
Clem Stephenson 159 66 0 0.42
17 Arthur Dorrell 355 60 0 0.17
Trevor Ford 120 60 3 0.5
19 Andy Gray 167 59 2 0.35
Gary Shaw 162 59 1 0.36
21 Gerry Hitchens 96 55 1 0.57
22 Harry Burrows 146 53 12 0.36
Billy Kirton 229 53 0 0.23
24 Harry Hampton 91 52 0 0.57
25 Allan Evans 360 50 22 0.14
26 Gordon Cowans 414 49 17 0.12
27 Dion Dublin 155 48 4 0.31
28 David Platt 110 45 7 0.41
29 Juan Pablo Ángel 175 44 5 0.25
Ollie Watkins * 116 44 3 0.38
31 Christian Benteke 89 42 6 0.47
John Deehan 110 42 0 0.38
33 Gareth Barry 365 41 18 0.11
34 Derek Pace 98 40 0 0.41
35 Julian Joachim 141 39 0 0.28
36 Davy Walsh 108 38 1 0.35
37 John Carew 113 37 2 0.33
Dean Saunders 112 37 5 0.33
39 Billy Goffin 157 36 0 0.23
Bobby Thomson 106 36 0 0.34
41 Reg Chester 93 35 3 0.38
Billy Cook 57 35 0 0.61
Jackie Sewell 121 35 0 0.29
Darius Vassell 162 35 2 0.22
45 George Edwards 138 34 0 0.25
46 Dicky Dorsett 257 32 6 0.12
Mark Walters 157 32 0 0.2
48 Dennis Mortimer 317 31 0 0.1
49 Frank Broome 56 30 0 0.54
Ian Dickson 76 30 0 0.39
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 03, 2023, 11:12:26 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on October 03, 2023, 11:18:37 AM
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 03, 2023, 11:25:26 AM
I make it he's missed about five league games for us in just over three years?
And one of those was serving one match ban for that ridiculous red card v Man. United when Henderson took him out.
Post by: nick harper on October 03, 2023, 11:36:05 AM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 03, 2023, 11:55:14 AM
Post by: dave shelley on October 03, 2023, 12:55:37 PM
Post by: brontebilly on October 03, 2023, 01:39:43 PM
Given our history, it’s amazing only 4 players have ever scored more than 100 league goals for us and no-one has got anywhere near since Johnny Dixon.
Gabby should have easily passed that mark. Only 13 goals in his last 5 seasons with us!
Post by: Meanwood Villa on October 03, 2023, 01:50:07 PM
League Goals Only
# Player M. goals Pens Ratio
1 Billy Walker 478 215 3 0.45
2 Pongo Waring 216 158 0 0.73
3 Eric Houghton 298 135 22 0.45
4 Johnny Dixon 387 132 0 0.34
5 Len Capewell 144 88 0 0.61
6 Dai Astley 151 87 0 0.58
7 George Brown 113 79 3 0.7
Dicky York 355 79 0 0.22
9 Peter McParland 252 75 0 0.3
10 Peter Withe 182 74 0 0.41
11Gabriel Agbonlahor 322 73 0 0.23
Dwight Yorke 231 73 5 0.32
13 Tony Hateley 127 68 6 0.54
14 Tommy Thompson 149 67 0 0.45
15 Joe Beresford 224 66 1 0.29
Clem Stephenson 159 66 0 0.42
17 Arthur Dorrell 355 60 0 0.17
Trevor Ford 120 60 3 0.5
19 Andy Gray 167 59 2 0.35
Gary Shaw 162 59 1 0.36
21 Gerry Hitchens 96 55 1 0.57
22 Harry Burrows 146 53 12 0.36
Billy Kirton 229 53 0 0.23
24 Harry Hampton 91 52 0 0.57
25 Allan Evans 360 50 22 0.14
26 Gordon Cowans 414 49 17 0.12
27 Dion Dublin 155 48 4 0.31
28 David Platt 110 45 7 0.41
29 Juan Pablo Ángel 175 44 5 0.25
Ollie Watkins * 116 44 3 0.38
31 Christian Benteke 89 42 6 0.47
John Deehan 110 42 0 0.38
33 Gareth Barry 365 41 18 0.11
34 Derek Pace 98 40 0 0.41
35 Julian Joachim 141 39 0 0.28
36 Davy Walsh 108 38 1 0.35
37 John Carew 113 37 2 0.33
Dean Saunders 112 37 5 0.33
39 Billy Goffin 157 36 0 0.23
Bobby Thomson 106 36 0 0.34
41 Reg Chester 93 35 3 0.38
Billy Cook 57 35 0 0.61
Jackie Sewell 121 35 0 0.29
Darius Vassell 162 35 2 0.22
45 George Edwards 138 34 0 0.25
46 Dicky Dorsett 257 32 6 0.12
Mark Walters 157 32 0 0.2
48 Dennis Mortimer 317 31 0 0.1
49 Frank Broome 56 30 0 0.54
Ian Dickson 76 30 0 0.39
This list isn't right, unless I've missed some filtering. Hampton is tied on Walker with 215 goals. Joe Bache doesn’t appear at all but scored 167, same with John Devey who got 168.
Post by: pablo_picasso on October 03, 2023, 01:59:40 PM
I hate the fact the fat waster Gabby is our all time leading PL scorer, I hope Ollie stays and smashes that one.
He's nowhere near the top of being our all time leading scorer.
He's 11th.
I don't care about this "Premier League era only" nonsense that some modern day fans & media seem obsessed with.
Our top scorer is Bill Walker & Gabriel Agbonlahor is nowhere near his tally, even with the change in the name of the league...
Post by: Meanwood Villa on October 03, 2023, 02:09:00 PM
Post by: eamonn on October 03, 2023, 02:18:21 PM
Post by: LeeB on October 03, 2023, 02:33:47 PM
Given our history, it’s amazing only 4 players have ever scored more than 100 league goals for us and no-one has got anywhere near since Johnny Dixon.
Gabby should have easily passed that mark. Only 13 goals in his last 5 seasons with us!
The thing is, had his career progressed and he'd not become a fat lazy bastard we'd have probably flogged him like we did anyone else that was half decent.
Post by: AV84 on October 03, 2023, 02:48:00 PM
Post by: eamonn on October 03, 2023, 03:12:38 PM
First Villa player to score two hat tricks in a season since Andy Gray in 76/77 . And it's only beginning of October!
Yeah but the Hibs game was a glorified friendly.
Post by: AV84 on October 03, 2023, 03:18:25 PM
First Villa player to score two hat tricks in a season since Andy Gray in 76/77 . And it's only beginning of October!
Yeah but the Hibs game was a glorified friendly.
I know, when I saw the stat it took me forever to figure out what other one they were referring to. Still counts though!
Post by: paul_e on October 03, 2023, 03:25:20 PM
I hate the fact the fat waster Gabby is our all time leading PL scorer, I hope Ollie stays and smashes that one.
He's nowhere near the top of being our all time leading scorer.
He's 11th.
I don't care about this "Premier League era only" nonsense that some modern day fans & media seem obsessed with.
Our top scorer is Bill Walker & Gabriel Agbonlahor is nowhere near his tally, even with the change in the name of the league...
I mostly agree with the sentiment but I do also think that the game has changed so much in even the last 30 years that it's hard to compare players from now to the first few Premier League seasons so there are times when it makes sense to limit things.
Post by: pablo_picasso on October 03, 2023, 03:46:33 PM
I hate the fact the fat waster Gabby is our all time leading PL scorer, I hope Ollie stays and smashes that one.
He's nowhere near the top of being our all time leading scorer.
He's 11th.
I don't care about this "Premier League era only" nonsense that some modern day fans & media seem obsessed with.
Our top scorer is Bill Walker & Gabriel Agbonlahor is nowhere near his tally, even with the change in the name of the league...
I mostly agree with the sentiment but I do also think that the game has changed so much in even the last 30 years that it's hard to compare players from now to the first few Premier League seasons so there are times when it makes sense to limit things.
I see your point, albeit Im not fully in board with it.
The problem is, how the game is perceived to have changed is pretty subjective.
One could argue that technique & tactics are far more advanced now, so its more difficult to score in the modern game.
But then one could also argue that playing in old style boots on pitches that could grow potato's on with a football as heavy as a medicine ball made it more difficult to score back in the day.
But its subjective either way in regards to how much more difficult it either is, or was.
So for me, we can only count from the beginning & compare from the start, but also accept that the game evolves, along with technology, so there are, & were, different challenges to overcome in all periods of the game.
Plus, I despise the fact that Sky Sports News thinks that football only existed when they became interested.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 03, 2023, 03:57:21 PM
Post by: Drummond on October 03, 2023, 04:08:25 PM
This might be more accurate?
https://www.avfchistory.co.uk/aston-villa-player-goal-records
Post by: Brend'Watkins on October 03, 2023, 04:10:01 PM
I hate the fact the fat waster Gabby is our all time leading PL scorer, I hope Ollie stays and smashes that one.
He's nowhere near the top of being our all time leading scorer.
He's 11th.
I don't care about this "Premier League era only" nonsense that some modern day fans & media seem obsessed with.
Our top scorer is Bill Walker & Gabriel Agbonlahor is nowhere near his tally, even with the change in the name of the league...
I mostly agree with the sentiment but I do also think that the game has changed so much in even the last 30 years that it's hard to compare players from now to the first few Premier League seasons so there are times when it makes sense to limit things.
Limiting it to top flight league games would be a start. It's one of the reason I give little credence to International goal scoring stats. Playing against Monaco or Andora can massage those stats greatly.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on October 03, 2023, 05:21:11 PM
I got it from here: https://www.worldfootball.net/alltime_goalgetter/eng-premier-league/tore/aston-villa/1/
This might be more accurate?
https://www.avfchistory.co.uk/aston-villa-player-goal-records
That looks more accurate. Now can you take the time to sort it on top flight goals only? 😉
Post by: Meanwood Villa on October 03, 2023, 05:22:53 PM
First Villa player to score two hat tricks in a season since Andy Gray in 76/77 . And it's only beginning of October!
Yeah but the Hibs game was a glorified friendly.
It really wasn't. Just because we won comfortably doesn't mean it wasn't a competitive game.
Post by: Nunkin1965 on October 03, 2023, 06:01:54 PM
Well done Ollie and long may it continue.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on October 03, 2023, 06:02:08 PM
League Goals Only
# Player M. goals Pens Ratio
1 Billy Walker 478 215 3 0.45
2 Pongo Waring 216 158 0 0.73
3 Eric Houghton 298 135 22 0.45
4 Johnny Dixon 387 132 0 0.34
5 Len Capewell 144 88 0 0.61
6 Dai Astley 151 87 0 0.58
7 George Brown 113 79 3 0.7
Dicky York 355 79 0 0.22
9 Peter McParland 252 75 0 0.3
10 Peter Withe 182 74 0 0.41
11Gabriel Agbonlahor 322 73 0 0.23
Dwight Yorke 231 73 5 0.32
13 Tony Hateley 127 68 6 0.54
14 Tommy Thompson 149 67 0 0.45
15 Joe Beresford 224 66 1 0.29
Clem Stephenson 159 66 0 0.42
17 Arthur Dorrell 355 60 0 0.17
Trevor Ford 120 60 3 0.5
19 Andy Gray 167 59 2 0.35
Gary Shaw 162 59 1 0.36
21 Gerry Hitchens 96 55 1 0.57
22 Harry Burrows 146 53 12 0.36
Billy Kirton 229 53 0 0.23
24 Harry Hampton 91 52 0 0.57
25 Allan Evans 360 50 22 0.14
26 Gordon Cowans 414 49 17 0.12
27 Dion Dublin 155 48 4 0.31
28 David Platt 110 45 7 0.41
29 Juan Pablo Ángel 175 44 5 0.25
Ollie Watkins * 116 44 3 0.38
31 Christian Benteke 89 42 6 0.47
John Deehan 110 42 0 0.38
33 Gareth Barry 365 41 18 0.11
34 Derek Pace 98 40 0 0.41
35 Julian Joachim 141 39 0 0.28
36 Davy Walsh 108 38 1 0.35
37 John Carew 113 37 2 0.33
Dean Saunders 112 37 5 0.33
39 Billy Goffin 157 36 0 0.23
Bobby Thomson 106 36 0 0.34
41 Reg Chester 93 35 3 0.38
Billy Cook 57 35 0 0.61
Jackie Sewell 121 35 0 0.29
Darius Vassell 162 35 2 0.22
45 George Edwards 138 34 0 0.25
46 Dicky Dorsett 257 32 6 0.12
Mark Walters 157 32 0 0.2
48 Dennis Mortimer 317 31 0 0.1
49 Frank Broome 56 30 0 0.54
Ian Dickson 76 30 0 0.39
Harry Hampton must have done well in the cup to finish level with Walker in total. 52 my arse.
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 03, 2023, 06:11:08 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 03, 2023, 06:26:17 PM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on October 03, 2023, 08:55:57 PM
Easily the worst two things about WW1.
I’m kidding.
Post by: Tokyo Sexwhale on October 04, 2023, 12:57:47 AM
Post by: OCD on October 04, 2023, 11:18:58 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on October 04, 2023, 01:19:33 PM
Rachel Daly will be on that list soon the way she scoresI know I'm risking being called out as sexist here and that is not my intention, but if we start mixing these lists then do you start putting on youth players etc on it as they are playing for Aston Villa teams too? Where would Steffan and Luke Moor sit?
Post by: paul_e on October 04, 2023, 01:26:02 PM
Rachel Daly will be on that list soon the way she scoresI know I'm risking being called out as sexist here and that is not my intention, but if we start mixing these lists then do you start putting on youth players etc on it as they are playing for Aston Villa teams too? Where would Steffan and Luke Moor sit?
No, because youth players aren't playing at the highest level they can within the club, Daly is.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 04, 2023, 01:26:43 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on October 04, 2023, 01:28:38 PM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on October 05, 2023, 10:56:40 AM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 05, 2023, 11:01:37 AM
Post by: Risso on October 05, 2023, 11:04:07 AM
Rachel Daly will be on that list soon the way she scoresI know I'm risking being called out as sexist here and that is not my intention, but if we start mixing these lists then do you start putting on youth players etc on it as they are playing for Aston Villa teams too? Where would Steffan and Luke Moor sit?
No, because youth players aren't playing at the highest level they can within the club, Daly is.
It still makes absolutely no sense to mix stats for men and women. They don't do it in any other sport, so why would it happen for football? Nobody seriously compares the number of Grand Slams Serena Williams has to Roger Federer, and nor should they.
Post by: Dave on October 05, 2023, 11:10:16 AM
Son probably a shoe-in though to win it.
Post by: paul_e on October 05, 2023, 11:11:20 AM
Rachel Daly will be on that list soon the way she scoresI know I'm risking being called out as sexist here and that is not my intention, but if we start mixing these lists then do you start putting on youth players etc on it as they are playing for Aston Villa teams too? Where would Steffan and Luke Moor sit?
No, because youth players aren't playing at the highest level they can within the club, Daly is.
It still makes absolutely no sense to mix stats for men and women. They don't do it in any other sport, so why would it happen for football? Nobody seriously compares the number of Grand Slams Serena Williams has to Roger Federer, and nor should they.
I didn't say it was and I wouldn't do it, I just pointed out that if you did it would at least be comparing 'like-for-like'. To stick with Tennis comparing Federer and Williams is a damn sight more reasonable than comparing either of them to someone who won a few junior tournaments and then never got close to an actual grand slam.
Post by: chrisw1 on October 05, 2023, 11:23:00 AM
So you agree with the general point but couldn't help yourself in having a dig?Rachel Daly will be on that list soon the way she scoresI know I'm risking being called out as sexist here and that is not my intention, but if we start mixing these lists then do you start putting on youth players etc on it as they are playing for Aston Villa teams too? Where would Steffan and Luke Moor sit?
No, because youth players aren't playing at the highest level they can within the club, Daly is.
It still makes absolutely no sense to mix stats for men and women. They don't do it in any other sport, so why would it happen for football? Nobody seriously compares the number of Grand Slams Serena Williams has to Roger Federer, and nor should they.
I didn't say it was and I wouldn't do it, I just pointed out that if you did it would at least be comparing 'like-for-like'. To stick with Tennis comparing Federer and Williams is a damn sight more reasonable than comparing either of them to someone who won a few junior tournaments and then never got close to an actual grand slam.
Post by: paul_e on October 05, 2023, 11:27:05 AM
So you agree with the general point but couldn't help yourself in having a dig?Rachel Daly will be on that list soon the way she scoresI know I'm risking being called out as sexist here and that is not my intention, but if we start mixing these lists then do you start putting on youth players etc on it as they are playing for Aston Villa teams too? Where would Steffan and Luke Moor sit?
No, because youth players aren't playing at the highest level they can within the club, Daly is.
It still makes absolutely no sense to mix stats for men and women. They don't do it in any other sport, so why would it happen for football? Nobody seriously compares the number of Grand Slams Serena Williams has to Roger Federer, and nor should they.
I didn't say it was and I wouldn't do it, I just pointed out that if you did it would at least be comparing 'like-for-like'. To stick with Tennis comparing Federer and Williams is a damn sight more reasonable than comparing either of them to someone who won a few junior tournaments and then never got close to an actual grand slam.
If that's how you read then it's up to you but it takes some impressive mental gymnastics, not a surprise with you though.
Post by: chrisw1 on October 05, 2023, 11:37:07 AM
You basically supported Daly being included in the figures but then in replying to Risso said you wouldn't do it. Did you honestly think the point of my post was that I thought youth players should be included too?
Post by: Simon Page on October 05, 2023, 11:38:51 AM
Post by: paul_e on October 05, 2023, 11:44:29 AM
You reckon?
You basically supported Daly being included in the figures but then in replying to Risso said you wouldn't do it. Did you honestly think the point of my post was that I thought youth players should be included too?
No I didn't, I simply said that including Daly has far more validity than including the youth records. I would explain why but then you'll sulk about me being condescending and we'll go through the whole bullshit of you not liking it when I disagree with you which no one wants so no I didn't agree with you and no I didn't post just to have a pop, I just thought you made a comparison that was really poor and, if anything, supported the opposite position to the one you were taking. Do you want me to explain why or shall we just end this now so you can go back to pretending I stalk you on here looking for things to argue about (I don't, you just happen to post more that I disagree with than most people).
Post by: Dave on October 05, 2023, 11:45:48 AM
Post by: Somniloquism on October 05, 2023, 11:46:09 AM
You reckon?
You basically supported Daly being included in the figures but then in replying to Risso said you wouldn't do it. Did you honestly think the point of my post was that I thought youth players should be included too?
I don't think anyone has actually stated we should mix the lists. Paul's point was just Luke Moores reserve/youth total wouldn't apply anyway, after all we don't include Gabby's youth stats in his total and I believe that was quite high as well.
And yes, it did look like you wanted to include youth records in competitive lists.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 05, 2023, 11:49:01 AM
I'm as big a fan of a pointless argument over nothing as anybody on here, but this one one *really* seems like a pointless argument over nothing?
I'm having an absolute shitter of a day, and I could really use a pointless argument (that I'm not involved in) about nothing. Have at it, please.
Post by: chrisw1 on October 05, 2023, 11:54:33 AM
You missed the bit about me saying 'at the risk of being called out as sexist?' I thought it was pretty transparent that I was saying I didn't think Daly should be included in the list of top goal-scorers being discussed. It seems like I give other posters too much credit so I'll try harder to be more obvious next time.You reckon?
You basically supported Daly being included in the figures but then in replying to Risso said you wouldn't do it. Did you honestly think the point of my post was that I thought youth players should be included too?
I don't think anyone has actually stated we should mix the lists. Paul's point was just Luke Moores reserve/youth total wouldn't apply anyway, after all we don't include Gabby's youth stats in his total and I believe that was quite high as well.
And yes, it did look like you wanted to include youth records in competitive lists.
Post by: chrisw1 on October 05, 2023, 11:55:06 AM
cheers, will do.I'm as big a fan of a pointless argument over nothing as anybody on here, but this one one *really* seems like a pointless argument over nothing?
I'm having an absolute shitter of a day, and I could really use a pointless argument (that I'm not involved in) about nothing. Have at it, please.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 05, 2023, 11:56:52 AM
cheers, will do.I'm as big a fan of a pointless argument over nothing as anybody on here, but this one one *really* seems like a pointless argument over nothing?
I'm having an absolute shitter of a day, and I could really use a pointless argument (that I'm not involved in) about nothing. Have at it, please.
No you fucking won't.
Post by: paul_e on October 05, 2023, 11:57:15 AM
You reckon?
You basically supported Daly being included in the figures but then in replying to Risso said you wouldn't do it. Did you honestly think the point of my post was that I thought youth players should be included too?
I don't think anyone has actually stated we should mix the lists. Paul's point was just Luke Moores reserve/youth total wouldn't apply anyway, after all we don't include Gabby's youth stats in his total and I believe that was quite high as well.
and also that youth stats actually don't make sense even to compare to themselves. For example Wayne Rooney never scored for England under-21s because he was too good for that level and went straight from U19s to rthe senior squad whereas Eddie Nketiah has 16 in 17 at that level. I won't be betting anything on Nketiah getting anywhere near Rooney's England record though. Or to put it another way, scoring fuckloads at youth level can actually been seen as a negative that the player never progressed despite scoring lots of goals.
Alternatively mens and womens senior football is comparing like-for-like in most ways and, for me, the main reason not to do it is that it's all a bit pointless and not very interesting.
Post by: chrisw1 on October 05, 2023, 11:59:25 AM
Post by: Somniloquism on October 05, 2023, 12:01:55 PM
You missed the bit about me saying 'at the risk of being called out as sexist?' I thought it was pretty transparent that I was saying I didn't think Daly should be included in the list of top goal-scorers being discussed. It seems like I give other posters too much credit so I'll try harder to be more obvious next time.
You missed the bit that no one actually stated they should be added, until you decided that it wouldn't be fair if she was ahead of Moore's youth record.
Post by: chrisw1 on October 05, 2023, 12:03:23 PM
You missed the bit about me saying 'at the risk of being called out as sexist?' I thought it was pretty transparent that I was saying I didn't think Daly should be included in the list of top goal-scorers being discussed. It seems like I give other posters too much credit so I'll try harder to be more obvious next time.
You missed the bit that no one actually stated they should be added, until you decided that it wouldn't be fair if she was ahead of Moore's youth record.
Rachel Daly will be on that list soon the way she scores
I mean, it's right there in black and white, but whatever.
Post by: paul_e on October 05, 2023, 12:06:02 PM
JFC. For the hard of thinking I do not think youth records should be included in stats of Aston Villa's top scorers. Nor do I think women stats should be mixed in with the men's. That was my whole point.
Oh how very condescending of you, you'll have to sulk about yourself for a while now.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 05, 2023, 12:09:20 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on October 05, 2023, 12:12:35 PM
Thanks chaps. Appreciate it. xDon't mention it, happy to help.
Post by: Risso on October 05, 2023, 12:22:08 PM
NZ said that Daly would soon be on the previously debated list of all time Villa top scorers.
Chris rightly said this would be as daft as including youth players. I did not take this to mean that he thought that it would be a good idea that youth players should be included on the list.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 05, 2023, 12:24:11 PM
I'm all in favour of a pointless argument, but not sure why Chris is being got at here.
NZ said that Daly would soon be on the previously debated list of all time Villa top scorers.
Chris rightly said this would be as daft as including youth players. I did not take this to mean that he thought that it would be a good idea that youth players should be included on the list.
You would say that. Chris is always going on about youth team goal stats counting towards the real stats. And you've been encouraging him.
Post by: Risso on October 05, 2023, 12:26:33 PM
I'm all in favour of a pointless argument, but not sure why Chris is being got at here.
NZ said that Daly would soon be on the previously debated list of all time Villa top scorers.
Chris rightly said this would be as daft as including youth players. I did not take this to mean that he thought that it would be a good idea that youth players should be included on the list.
You would say that. Chris is always going on about youth team goal stats counting towards the real stats. And you've been encouraging him.
You would think that because you're shit at English as a result of going to a shit university and doing a Mickey Mouse degree. And I hate you.
Post by: Risso on October 05, 2023, 12:29:18 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 05, 2023, 12:35:03 PM
Post by: PaulTheVillan on October 05, 2023, 12:35:23 PM
That's it. I'm going in the sea.Take Southgate with you
Post by: paul_e on October 05, 2023, 12:36:04 PM
I'm all in favour of a pointless argument, but not sure why Chris is being got at here.
NZ said that Daly would soon be on the previously debated list of all time Villa top scorers.
Chris rightly said this would be as daft as including youth players. I did not take this to mean that he thought that it would be a good idea that youth players should be included on the list.
He's not being got at, I just pointed out that the validity of comparing mens and womens senior appearance stats is far higher than comparing youth level stats with either. As he often does though Chris couldn't take that as a reply and had to pretend that I was attacking him and act as if it was some of gotcha when I agreed that I don't see much point in comparing stats between men and women. I 've actually gone further than that a few pages back and hinted towards the fact that I don't see much point in even comparing players that played more than about 30-40 years apart.
Post by: Somniloquism on October 05, 2023, 01:14:15 PM
Rachel Daly will be on that list soon the way she scores
I mean, it's right there in black and white, but whatever.
I took it as a promotion on how good Daly's scoring has been, not that N'ZMAV wanted her actually included.
Post by: Risso on October 05, 2023, 01:25:06 PM
Rachel Daly will be on that list soon the way she scores
I mean, it's right there in black and white, but whatever.
I took it as a promotion on how good Daly's scoring has been, not that N'ZMAV wanted her actually included.
"Rachel Daly will be on that list soon" is fairly black and white.
Post by: Somniloquism on October 05, 2023, 01:27:02 PM
Rachel Daly will be on that list soon the way she scores
I mean, it's right there in black and white, but whatever.
I took it as a promotion on how good Daly's scoring has been, not that N'ZMAV wanted her actually included.
"Rachel Daly will be on that list soon" is fairly black and white.
Not really when it doesn't include her at the moment.
Post by: PaulTheVillan on October 05, 2023, 01:27:49 PM
Post by: Nii Lamptey on October 05, 2023, 01:41:03 PM
The sooner Agbonlahor isn't at the top of any list of achiements, the better.
This. Makes me feel sick to the stomach every time he's on Talkshite and they big him up as 'Aston Villa legend, Gabby Agbonlahor'.
Utter bollocks - The self-proclaimed Villa fan downed tools when we needed him most, and I'd categorise him not far off Lescott and that laughing Hyena from Man City, but for the goal record in his earlier years.
The sooner Ollie smashes it, the better in my book.
Post by: Somniloquism on October 05, 2023, 01:48:50 PM
Post by: Clark W Griswold on October 05, 2023, 01:57:10 PM
Post by: Nev on October 05, 2023, 01:59:07 PM
Post by: usav on October 05, 2023, 02:03:52 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on October 05, 2023, 02:03:55 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on October 05, 2023, 02:17:24 PM
Unfortunately Watkins will be wasting time on the bench for the next England matches.Whilst being tapped up.
Post by: Rigadon on October 05, 2023, 02:19:31 PM
Post by: aev on October 05, 2023, 02:21:19 PM
Post by: Rigadon on October 05, 2023, 02:23:55 PM
"Callum Wilson is carrying an injury and we were not certain he would be available.
"Ollie has started the season well - he's hit a bit of scoring form in the last couple of weeks. You have to be careful with that because you can't just go on recency bias with selection.
"But he is in good form and obviously coming in on a high and he's been with us before so we know his character, his personality - he is a good guy around the group.
"His team are playing well and he's playing for a team that are really well coached and they are in a good moment."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/67011503
Post by: Rigadon on October 05, 2023, 02:25:14 PM
And we have generally 'been in a good moment' for about a year, minor blips aside.
Post by: Axl Rose on October 05, 2023, 02:25:18 PM
Grealish? Has barely played. Same as Stones. I know that didn't matter in the past, but didn't cuntgate say players had to be playing to be picked? I guess he went back on that a long long time ago.
Phillips, Maguire...Henderson. No thank you. Conor Gallagher? Beyond bland.
Post by: Rigadon on October 05, 2023, 02:26:02 PM
Post by: Villatillidie25 on October 05, 2023, 02:34:57 PM
That little quote has annoyed me more than is should!
and me :P
Post by: chrisw1 on October 05, 2023, 02:35:46 PM
Post by: LeeB on October 05, 2023, 02:36:41 PM
Post by: pablo_picasso on October 05, 2023, 02:42:28 PM
Quote
"Ollie has started the season well - he's hit a bit of scoring form in the last couple of weeks. You have to be careful with that because you can't just go on recency bias with selection."
So you have to be careful picking players based on their good form?
Why is that?
Is it because it undermines the whole ridiculous love affair with Maguire?
Twat.
Post by: Risso on October 05, 2023, 02:45:23 PM
Post by: wolfman999 on October 05, 2023, 02:51:02 PM
Post by: SaddVillan on October 05, 2023, 03:03:15 PM
Ollie might be in the squad, but what are the odds on him getting a start in either game?
Post by: Nev on October 05, 2023, 03:09:06 PM
Recency bias, what a fucking plum.
Post by: brontebilly on October 05, 2023, 03:11:48 PM
Unfortunately Watkins will be wasting time on the bench for the next England matches.
No shame being backup to Kane. Isn't Stones injured?
Post by: wolfman999 on October 05, 2023, 03:13:49 PM
Unfortunately Watkins will be wasting time on the bench for the next England matches.
No shame being backup to Kane. Isn't Stones injured?
But what is the point of playing Kane in a meaningless friendly? What is he going to learn that he doesn't already know?
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 05, 2023, 03:23:48 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 05, 2023, 03:33:19 PM
Maybe it is because he gets my back up , but the tone is almost like he is playing him down and doesn't deserve to be there, the cautious prick
Ha! I love the conflict between the gentle 'cautious' and the excoriating 'prick'. The thrifty wanker. The hesitant cnut. The small C conservative shitcunt. The ponderous scum, etc.
I liked it anyway.
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 05, 2023, 03:39:05 PM
Total cnut
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 05, 2023, 03:43:17 PM
Maybe it is because he gets my back up , but the tone is almost like he is playing him down and doesn't deserve to be there, the cautious prick
Ha! I love the conflict between the gentle 'cautious' and the excoriating 'prick'. The thrifty wanker. The hesitant cnut. The small C conservative shitcunt. The ponderous scum, etc.
I liked it anyway.
I want to like him , but I also want him managing the Baggies sometime next year
Post by: Bully2345 on October 05, 2023, 03:43:36 PM
I just can't show enough interest to get riled by him
Post by: cdward on October 05, 2023, 03:59:12 PM
Post by: IFWaters on October 05, 2023, 04:11:58 PM
Post by: Rigadon on October 05, 2023, 04:17:02 PM
Always, always backhanded with that c**t.
Isn't it just! It's almost apologetic, and very patronising to both the player and Villa. Like somebody else said above, I want to like Southgate, but it's impossible sometimes.
Post by: olaftab on October 05, 2023, 04:36:16 PM
Post by: eamonn on October 05, 2023, 04:57:08 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 05, 2023, 05:17:54 PM
Always, always backhanded with that c**t.
The only thing missing was "and Toney is still suspended so I'm limited with choice". He's an absolute useless tosser.
Post by: Pete3206 on October 05, 2023, 05:43:31 PM
Konsa should be there as well.
Post by: PeterWithe on October 05, 2023, 06:38:45 PM
Post by: OCD on October 06, 2023, 12:24:51 PM
Post by: Drummond on October 06, 2023, 02:54:34 PM
Rachel Daly will be on that list soon the way she scores
I mean, it's right there in black and white, but whatever.
I took it as a promotion on how good Daly's scoring has been, not that N'ZMAV wanted her actually included.
"Rachel Daly will be on that list soon" is fairly black and white.
Don't bring race into it too.
Post by: Drummond on October 06, 2023, 02:57:24 PM
David Ornstein of the Athletic says that we're finalising a new 5-year contract with Watkins and it will be announced soon.
Ollie Watkins is on the verge of signing a new five-year contract at Aston Villa.
The England international striker has an existing deal that runs until 2025 with the fresh terms set to take him to 2028.
The Premier League club are in the process of finalising and an official announcement will follow.
Watkins has enjoyed a strong start to the season for Villa, scoring seven goals in 11 matches.
Though he went the first five Premier League games without a goal, he has scored four in his last two, including a hat-trick against Brighton & Hove Albion on Saturday.
The 27-year-old has won seven caps for England after making his debut in March 2021, scoring twice, and was re-called by Gareth Southgate for the upcoming fixtures with Australia and Italy later this month on Thursday.
Watkins joined Villa from Brentford in 2020 for a then club-record fee of £28million and has gone to score 50 goals in 127 appearances for the club.
Villa are fifth in the Premier League and return to action away at Wolverhampton Wanderers on Sunday.
The 12-minute burst that left Brighton with no way back
By Aston Villa correspondent Jacob Tanswell
Villa found it straightforward to pickpocket on the transition with Watkins, in completing his hat-trick, scoring his 50th Villa goal and delivering his most complete performance.
In front of the England manager Gareth Southgate, Watkins became the first player to score two hat-tricks in a season for Villa since Andy Gray in the 1976-77 campaign.
Watkins characterised how Villa blew Brighton away. Pace, directness and a structured role left Roberto De Zerbi wondering where “the true Brighton” had gone.
Post by: Drummond on October 06, 2023, 02:58:27 PM
A cock jockey of the highest order. He could not just say that Ollie is in on merit dud to goals and assists this season, but had to try to be clever and say something a little demeaning
Total cnut
Less of the homophobic insult shite please.
Post by: tomd2103 on October 06, 2023, 03:30:45 PM
A sports announcer on radio said Ollie Watkins get his first England call up. Not checking facts obviously before opening his mouth.
I heard that last night as well.
Post by: Risso on October 06, 2023, 03:44:23 PM
A cock jockey of the highest order. He could not just say that Ollie is in on merit dud to goals and assists this season, but had to try to be clever and say something a little demeaning
Total cnut
Less of the homophobic insult shite please.
Eh?
Post by: Yeltzer on October 06, 2023, 04:31:43 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 06, 2023, 04:33:34 PM
Quote
Aston Villa is delighted to announce Ollie Watkins has signed a new, long-term contract with the club.
The striker, who yesterday received a recall to the England squad, has now scored 50 goals for Villa since joining from Brentford in 2020.
His 15 goals last term helped fire Villa into Europe while he has reached double figures in each of his three seasons at the club – with seven to his name in all competitions so far this season, including two hat-tricks, the first Villa player to achieve the feat in the same campaign since Andy Gray in the 1970s.
A graduate of the Exeter City Academy, he spent time in non-league football with Weston Super-Mare before impressing for the Grecians and then Brentford.
(https://images.webapi.gc.avfcservices.co.uk/fit-in/1400x1400/17384190-6453-11ee-9d3e-59f77fbd0107.jpg)
Post by: Drummond on October 06, 2023, 04:34:36 PM
A cock jockey of the highest order. He could not just say that Ollie is in on merit dud to goals and assists this season, but had to try to be clever and say something a little demeaning
Total cnut
Less of the homophobic insult shite please.
Eh?
It's a slang term for a homosexual, also called sausage jockey, or dick jockey.
Post by: Risso on October 06, 2023, 04:36:40 PM
Post by: OCD on October 06, 2023, 04:37:44 PM
Post by: olaftab on October 06, 2023, 04:38:55 PM
It's really a terrible shame that some very good english phrases have been hijacked by homophobes.A cock jockey of the highest order. He could not just say that Ollie is in on merit dud to goals and assists this season, but had to try to be clever and say something a little demeaning
Total cnut
Less of the homophobic insult shite please.
Eh?
It's a slang term for a homosexual, also called sausage jockey, or dick jockey.
Post by: Drummond on October 06, 2023, 04:38:57 PM
Oh. Just saw it as a slightly swearier version of knob jockey.
Erm, that's exactly the same meaning!
Post by: AV82EC on October 06, 2023, 04:41:30 PM
Oh. Just saw it as a slightly swearier version of knob jockey.
Erm, that's exactly the same meaning!
Is it? I genuinely have never heard the term used in that context just a more general term of abuse to someone who’s being a bit of a dickhead. Ho hum, every days a school day.
Post by: olaftab on October 06, 2023, 04:42:07 PM
Post by: Risso on October 06, 2023, 04:43:29 PM
Oh. Just saw it as a slightly swearier version of knob jockey.
Erm, that's exactly the same meaning!
Is it? I genuinely have never heard the term used in that context just a more general term of abuse to someone who’s being a bit of a dickhead. Ho hum, every days a school day.
Same here.
Post by: SaddVillan on October 06, 2023, 04:44:18 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 06, 2023, 04:48:22 PM
Post by: Clampy on October 06, 2023, 04:49:07 PM
Post by: Stu82 on October 06, 2023, 04:53:11 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on October 06, 2023, 04:53:56 PM
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 06, 2023, 04:56:21 PM
Post by: algy on October 06, 2023, 05:03:15 PM
It's political correctness gone mad!
Post by: Rigadon on October 06, 2023, 05:05:41 PM
You can't even call people a raging bender who's so gay that they only live for the cock without being called a homophobe these days, eh? When I were a lad it just meant that they were angry when they were working as an ironmonger, bending steel in to horseshoes, but were happy when they got outside and played with their pet chicken.
It's political correctness gone mad!
Made me chuckle.
However, I've never thought the aforementioned slur was homophobic before (I'd have had it in the same category as 'knob head'). When you think about it, it's a bit different I guess. Anyway I would've thought the original poster may not have had homophobic intent in his application.
Post by: Rory on October 06, 2023, 05:05:47 PM
What do people think being a knob jockey etc means. It's not really subtle.
A heterosexual woman.
Post by: Rigadon on October 06, 2023, 05:06:26 PM
Post by: Rory on October 06, 2023, 05:07:32 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 06, 2023, 05:10:58 PM
What do people think being a knob jockey etc means. It's not really subtle.
A heterosexual woman.
And when it's aimed at a man, as it was in this case?
Post by: Rory on October 06, 2023, 05:13:51 PM
What do people think being a knob jockey etc means. It's not really subtle.
A heterosexual woman.
And when it's aimed at a man, as it was in this case?
I was only joking, I'm like some others - had never considered it before, but now that I do, I can see how it's homophobic.
I never had a mental image of it being a sex act, weirdly, I always pictured it being a literal jockey riding on a huge inflatable cock & balls.
Post by: AV84 on October 06, 2023, 05:50:41 PM
Post by: Gareth on October 06, 2023, 05:53:05 PM
Post by: Rory on October 06, 2023, 05:56:53 PM
Hopefully pass Gabby as top PL goalscorer end of next season :-)
The sooner, the better!
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 06, 2023, 06:00:09 PM
same.What do people think being a knob jockey etc means. It's not really subtle.
A heterosexual woman.
And when it's aimed at a man, as it was in this case?
I was only joking, I'm like some others - had never considered it before, but now that I do, I can see how it's homophobic.
I never had a mental image of it being a sex act, weirdly, I always pictured it being a literal jockey riding on a huge inflatable cock & balls.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on October 06, 2023, 06:04:42 PM
What do people think being a knob jockey etc means. It's not really subtle.
Yeah, what do jockeys actually do? Ride things.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 06, 2023, 06:10:51 PM
Hopefully pass Gabby as top PL goalscorer end of next season :-)
The sooner, the better!
Are we still allowed to call Gabby a cockwomble?
Post by: john e on October 06, 2023, 06:13:33 PM
Post by: SaddVillan on October 06, 2023, 06:19:59 PM
Games for Smith/Gerrard 89
Goals scored 29
A whisker over one in three
Games for Unai 38
Goals 21
Better than one in two.
Post by: Risso on October 06, 2023, 06:20:55 PM
What do people think being a knob jockey etc means. It's not really subtle.
Yeah, what do jockeys actually do? Ride things.
Disc jockey?
Post by: Jane on October 06, 2023, 06:22:44 PM
A cock jockey of the highest order. He could not just say that Ollie is in on merit dud to goals and assists this season, but had to try to be clever and say something a little demeaning
Total cnut
Less of the homophobic insult shite please.
Are you a bit bored today, Drummond?! People may have missed the black and white comment?!)
Post by: AV84 on October 06, 2023, 06:25:30 PM
He wants Gabby's record gone as much as some of the fans on here do.
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 06, 2023, 06:26:12 PM
I missed it..... link :)A cock jockey of the highest order. He could not just say that Ollie is in on merit dud to goals and assists this season, but had to try to be clever and say something a little demeaning
Total cnut
Less of the homophobic insult shite please.
Are you a bit bored today, Drummond?! People may have missed the black and white comment?!)
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 06, 2023, 06:27:48 PM
Post by: Rory on October 06, 2023, 06:28:21 PM
Hopefully pass Gabby as top PL goalscorer end of next season :-)
The sooner, the better!
Are we still allowed to call Gabby a cockwomble?
I reckon it depends on whether you think there is a verb, 'to womble', and what that would entail. The Wombles song mentions 'wombling free', so certainly the creators thought so, but did they clarify what it actually was?
The Wombles sort of salvaged/harvested things, didn't they? So could any male homosexual act be classified as salvaging or harvesting a cock?
If so, you absolutely can NOT say it.
Post by: Richard E on October 06, 2023, 06:30:07 PM
Fantastic news.
It really is. I know people moan about his first touch and his conversion rate but he’s been fantastic for us and he works his knackers off for 90 minutes.
Post by: Risso on October 06, 2023, 06:34:13 PM
Fantastic news.
It really is. I know people moan about his first touch and his conversion rate but he’s been fantastic for us and he works his knackers off for 90 minutes.
You certainly notice when he's not playing.
Post by: Smithy on October 06, 2023, 06:38:00 PM
As for Gabby, considering he was playing as a forward for us when he was 19, and didn't retire until he was in his early 30s, the fact he only has 76 league goals is a bit of a disgrace. Gareth Barry got 41 in roughly the same number of games, despite playing much of his early career as a defender and defensive midfielder. Gabby is a fraction over 1 in 5. The fact he's our highest premier league scorer says more about the fact we couldn't offload him than it does about how good he was. He has a purple patch in his early 20s, but after that was distinctly average. But even average players can break records if they hang around long enough.
If he stays injury free, I'll be stunned if Ollie doesn't get more goals in five seasons than Gabby did in twelve.
Post by: brontebilly on October 06, 2023, 07:00:08 PM
Post by: Mellin on October 06, 2023, 07:11:03 PM
Post by: johnc on October 06, 2023, 07:37:38 PM
Ollie Watkins' Villa record:Very informative stat.
Games for Smith/Gerrard 89
Goals scored 29
A whisker over one in three
Games for Unai 38
Goals 21
Better than one in two.
Post by: Ian. on October 06, 2023, 07:38:07 PM
Fantastic news.
It really is. I know people moan about his first touch and his conversion rate but he’s been fantastic for us and he works his knackers off for 90 minutes.
Yep, bloody awesome news. Love him, he’s been superb for us and so crucial to how we play.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 06, 2023, 07:51:57 PM
Over to you, Ollie.
EDIT: I hope there's a clause in the contract that bans in during the next 5 years from having any more kids.
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 06, 2023, 07:57:04 PM
Post by: Goldenballs on October 06, 2023, 07:59:09 PM
We still need someone to challenge him though when he goes on a goal drought. Duran isn't that man, yet.
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on October 06, 2023, 09:28:54 PM
Ollie Watkins' Villa record:Very informative stat.
Games for Smith/Gerrard 89
Goals scored 29
A whisker over one in three
Games for Unai 38
Goals 21
Better than one in two.
1 in 2 strikers are a rare breed. Apart from Haaland and Kane last season, his ability to find the net is pretty well as good as anybody.
Post by: john e on October 06, 2023, 09:30:30 PM
Fantastic news.
It really is. I know people moan about his first touch and his conversion rate but he’s been fantastic for us and he works his knackers off for 90 minutes.
You certainly notice when he's not playing.
Yep we really missed him in those first 6 games
😀
Post by: Somniloquism on October 06, 2023, 09:57:36 PM
Fantastic news.
It really is. I know people moan about his first touch and his conversion rate but he’s been fantastic for us and he works his knackers off for 90 minutes.
You certainly notice when he's not playing.
Yep we really missed him in those first 6 games
😀
First six games, he got a hat trick. However if you are talking first six league games, he got a goal, two assists* and won us the penalty as well.
*Probably more then two as if a shot is blocked by a defender or GK and someone scores on the follow up, it isn't officially an assist.
Post by: john e on October 06, 2023, 10:04:03 PM
Fantastic news.
It really is. I know people moan about his first touch and his conversion rate but he’s been fantastic for us and he works his knackers off for 90 minutes.
You certainly notice when he's not playing.
Yep we really missed him in those first 6 games
😀
First six games, he got a hat trick. However if you are talking first six league games, he got a goal, two assists* and won us the penalty as well.
*Probably more then two as if a shot is blocked by a defender or GK and someone scores on the follow up, it isn't officially an assist.
Calm down mate no need to get twisted knickers
didn’t you so the smiley face
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 06, 2023, 10:59:14 PM
Villa just said "long term" and no more specifics than that.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 06, 2023, 11:23:08 PM
How long is this contract extension?
Villa just said "long term" and no more specifics than that.
5 years according to the Beeb. https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/67029899
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 06, 2023, 11:36:36 PM
Post by: algy on October 07, 2023, 12:06:09 AM
I googled wombling and the first two results wereHopefully pass Gabby as top PL goalscorer end of next season :-)
The sooner, the better!
Are we still allowed to call Gabby a cockwomble?
I reckon it depends on whether you think there is a verb, 'to womble', and what that would entail. The Wombles song mentions 'wombling free', so certainly the creators thought so, but did they clarify what it actually was?
The Wombles sort of salvaged/harvested things, didn't they? So could any male homosexual act be classified as salvaging or harvesting a cock?
If so, you absolutely can NOT say it.
Quote
In statistics, Wombling is any of a number of techniques used for identifying zones of rapid change,
And
Quote
Womblers are receipt hunters who collect loyalty points and other rewards from other people's shopping.
So I guess it depends on which one the creators of The Wombles were referring to, whether Gabby would be statistically analysing how cocks rapidly change, or trying to claim the associated cock-based rewards for other people's shopping.
I try to stay non-judgemental about these things. Unlike Gabby, who i judge to be a cockwomble.
Post by: rooboy316 on October 07, 2023, 02:04:41 AM
What do people think being a knob jockey etc means. It's not really subtle.
A heterosexual woman.
...and who'd want to be one of those?!
Winky thing, obvs.
Post by: Rory on October 07, 2023, 02:31:48 AM
I googled wombling and the first two results wereHopefully pass Gabby as top PL goalscorer end of next season :-)
The sooner, the better!
Are we still allowed to call Gabby a cockwomble?
I reckon it depends on whether you think there is a verb, 'to womble', and what that would entail. The Wombles song mentions 'wombling free', so certainly the creators thought so, but did they clarify what it actually was?
The Wombles sort of salvaged/harvested things, didn't they? So could any male homosexual act be classified as salvaging or harvesting a cock?
If so, you absolutely can NOT say it.QuoteIn statistics, Wombling is any of a number of techniques used for identifying zones of rapid change,
AndQuoteWomblers are receipt hunters who collect loyalty points and other rewards from other people's shopping.
So I guess it depends on which one the creators of The Wombles were referring to, whether Gabby would be statistically analysing how cocks rapidly change, or trying to claim the associated cock-based rewards for other people's shopping.
I try to stay non-judgemental about these things. Unlike Gabby, who i judge to be a cockwomble.
It's even more complex than I dared imagine.
Post by: Rory on October 07, 2023, 02:33:26 AM
What do people think being a knob jockey etc means. It's not really subtle.
A heterosexual woman.
...and who'd want to be one of those?!
Winky thing, obvs.
Not me. I feel sorry for straight women. Overall, men are fucking awful.
Post by: CT Villan on October 07, 2023, 03:18:30 AM
His finest moment was crunching that weedy, boy-band cockwomble at a charity game.
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 07, 2023, 03:24:58 AM
Oh. Just saw it as a slightly swearier version of knob jockey.
Erm, that's exactly the same meaning!
Is it? I genuinely have never heard the term used in that context just a more general term of abuse to someone who’s being a bit of a dickhead. Ho hum, every days a school day.
Not that I should have to explain myself I will state that it was meant as a generic insult rather than directed at his or anyone else's sexuality.
And for the record my son is gay and very proud of the fact.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 07, 2023, 07:06:31 AM
The sooner Gabby's record goes the better.
His finest moment was crunching that weedy, boy-band cockwomble at a charity game.
That was a dickhead thing to do as well.
Post by: Dante Lavelli on October 07, 2023, 07:46:42 AM
Post by: Stu82 on October 07, 2023, 10:41:49 AM
The sooner Gabby's record goes the better.
His finest moment was crunching that weedy, boy-band cockwomble at a charity game.
Weird in a way that the stat is a prem league nothing mattered before we renamed top level football stat, all the media spout is this bs.
Why have the previous 110 odd years of football been relegated in importance.
I'd like to see him do a pongo waring.
Bollocks to Gabbys record.
It is great news he signed, his all round contribution is huge.
Post by: Axl Rose on October 07, 2023, 11:00:50 AM
The sooner Gabby's record goes the better.
His finest moment was crunching that weedy, boy-band cockwomble at a charity game.
😂 I don't think you're supposed to say 'cockwomble'.
Or maybe you are. This thread is the first time I've ever seen such a phrase
Post by: PeterWithe on October 07, 2023, 11:01:47 AM
Post by: pablo_picasso on October 07, 2023, 01:35:40 PM
The sooner Gabby's record goes the better.
His finest moment was crunching that weedy, boy-band cockwomble at a charity game.
Weird in a way that the stat is a prem league nothing mattered before we renamed top level football stat, all the media spout is this bs.
Why have the previous 110 odd years of football been relegated in importance.
I'd like to see him do a pongo waring.
Bollocks to Gabbys record.
Agreed. 100%
Post by: Pete3206 on October 07, 2023, 02:17:15 PM
Post by: Rory on October 07, 2023, 02:28:22 PM
The sooner Gabby's record goes the better.
His finest moment was crunching that weedy, boy-band cockwomble at a charity game.
😂 I don't think you're supposed to say 'cockwomble'.
Or maybe you are. This thread is the first time I've ever seen such a phrase
Algy clarified it, 'cockwomble' is fine.
Post by: Axl Rose on October 07, 2023, 02:31:56 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on October 08, 2023, 07:52:35 PM
Quote
Ollie Watkins hit the woodwork for the 16th time in his Premier League career for Aston Villa today - at least 5 more than any other Villa player since records began (2003/2004).
Post by: OCD on October 08, 2023, 09:34:46 PM
Post by: DrGonzo on October 08, 2023, 09:46:13 PM
Post by: Exeter 77 on October 08, 2023, 09:50:24 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on October 08, 2023, 10:06:50 PM
The assist was excellent, a difficult game where they sat deep and marked well. If Neto hadn't fallen over 5 minutes earlier he'd have won a penalty, too. He's never going to be the greatest striker in the world but he's a F ton better than many we have seen at VP in the last 25 years. Intelligent and a seemingly decent dude as well.
There was another Stat which had him on 5 ahead of any other English player for goals/assists the last 12 months with I think 24. Rashford was next.
Post by: Concrete Tom on October 09, 2023, 12:13:24 AM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 09, 2023, 12:17:25 AM
Post by: LeonW on October 09, 2023, 07:55:40 AM
Post by: mrfuse on October 09, 2023, 09:04:46 AM
Looking forward to Ollie's 5 minute cameo against Australia before he disappears from Southgate's squad in favour of Calum Wilson and bench warmers from Arsenal.
I think you forgot to add picking up a serious injury putting him out for the season.....
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 09, 2023, 09:05:41 AM
Willing runner and worker is Ollie. Always gives a lot to the side. We have to embrace his positives but having a killer instinct is not one.Or first touch. His mis control yesterday was pub league level.
Post by: Risso on October 09, 2023, 10:21:55 AM
Willing runner and worker is Ollie. Always gives a lot to the side. We have to embrace his positives but having a killer instinct is not one.Or first touch. His mis control yesterday was pub league level.
There was that really nice long pass to him in space yesterday, but his first touch took it 8 feet away from him, giving it to the defender. It's stufff like that that's really frustrating.
Post by: Richard on October 09, 2023, 11:05:24 AM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on October 09, 2023, 11:22:07 AM
I love Watkins, mis control or not. Unlucky with both the shot and header that book ended the second half. Great pass for our goal. Who do people think we could get better realistically?
We probably couldn't but he's not above criticism, he should have done better with that header, at least hit the target.
Post by: LeeB on October 09, 2023, 11:32:13 AM
Post by: Drummond on October 09, 2023, 12:45:41 PM
Willing runner and worker is Ollie. Always gives a lot to the side. We have to embrace his positives but having a killer instinct is not one.Or first touch. His mis control yesterday was pub league level.
There was that really nice long pass to him in space yesterday, but his first touch took it 8 feet away from him, giving it to the defender. It's stufff like that that's really frustrating.
I think it's more frustrating because there are a lot of occasions where his first touch and control are great.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 09, 2023, 12:52:43 PM
Post by: Drummond on October 09, 2023, 12:57:17 PM
He's not quite good enough, which mirrors us as a club. I suspect it'll be easier for him to improve than it will be for us.
He is and he will improve too.
Post by: Ian. on October 09, 2023, 01:12:45 PM
Post by: Smithy on October 09, 2023, 01:52:27 PM
It wasn't a difficult chance, and definitely the sort of chance he needs to be taking if he's going to become a 20+ a season goal scorer.
As others have said, I actually try not to worry too much about his misses, because he brings so much else to the team. It's frustrating, yes, but I still think we're a better team with him in it. If a genuine guaranteed upgrade on him arrives in the next couple of years, he's going to be VERY expensive, or we're going to get INCREDIBLY lucky with our youth development.
Post by: chrisw1 on October 09, 2023, 03:07:54 PM
It's frustrating when our strikers miss chances and I've certainly been critical of Ollie in the past. But every striker misses chances, even Haaland - we're just more attuned when ours do. I personally think he's playing pretty well and am delighted he signed the contract.
Post by: Caribbeanvillan on October 09, 2023, 03:50:52 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on October 09, 2023, 04:02:49 PM
We will be talking about the exact same faults with Watkins in 12 months time, we need a serious upgrade.Out of interest, which strikers currently in the PL would you consider to be a serious upgrade on Watkins? There's a few I like, but not many better at what he does for us nor many with a better goal scoring record.
Post by: Somniloquism on October 09, 2023, 04:02:56 PM
We will be talking about the exact same faults with Watkins in 12 months time, we need a serious upgrade.
As others have pointed out, the "serious upgrade" will either have to be someone coming through the youth and able to make the leap to keeping the scoring going at the top level, or doing a Salah and getting someone who was a goal between 2-3 games, but who then becomes a goal every 1-2 games striker.
My personal opinion is it would need to be one of these 10 players (https://www.livescore.com/en/news/messi-haaland-mbappe-salah-kane-lewandowski-goal-contributions-2022-23-2023061612120974615/) to be a "serious upgrade".
Post by: RamboandBruno on October 09, 2023, 04:05:28 PM
He’s not perfect, he’s not one of the worlds top strikers. But he’s really really good.
Post by: Paul.S on October 09, 2023, 04:08:41 PM
We will be talking about the exact same faults with Watkins in 12 months time, we need a serious upgrade.
A serious upgrade would cost us £100m in todays game. It’s not happening anytime soon.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 09, 2023, 05:10:28 PM
We will be talking about the exact same faults with Watkins in 12 months time, we need a serious upgrade.
How about all the vital bits he brings to the team?
Post by: pablo_picasso on October 09, 2023, 05:29:14 PM
When he is on his game, he is brilliant. His work rate, selfless running, closing down, etc, are invaluable.
When he adds goals & a first touch that is decent, he is pretty much unplayable.
But when he is off it, granted he still works hard, makes selfless runs & closes down, etc, & that is invaluable, but when he misses simple chances that he was banging away a couple of weeks previous, or his touch is that of a small garden trampoline, I find it infuriating & frustrating why he swings so wildly with the basics of his role.
If he didn't work hard, no matter what, I would want to sell him.
As it stands, I would love to keep him, but I would also love to bring in a strong, tall & pacy striker to compete with him for the starting spot, as well as offering us something different up top. (Although Duran might be that guy.)
And if we find another "I didn't want Ings here as competition" situation, then he will have to suck it up & accept that he is a footballer in a squad game.
Post by: Drummond on October 10, 2023, 12:31:12 PM
Post by: Rigadon on October 10, 2023, 12:51:04 PM
Post by: Ian. on October 10, 2023, 01:00:51 PM
Post by: AV84 on October 10, 2023, 01:05:30 PM
Watkins numbers last season were alright but he hadn't (I'm pretty sure) scored yet at this point last year.
Post by: Ian. on October 10, 2023, 01:16:34 PM
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 10, 2023, 01:16:37 PM
Post by: AV84 on October 10, 2023, 01:31:19 PM
Those poor stats before Emery could be used on most of our players. I’d rather look at the form since Emery has been here.
It's the same thing though. He scored the vast majority, if not all, of his goals last season under Emery. And he still went for a few games at a time without scoring any. But at the end of the season his stats are good. Even now, he's scored 4, but his assists and other stats are great. And that adds to the goals coming from other people, which is what matters at the end of the day. Goals.
Post by: Dave on October 10, 2023, 01:39:57 PM
Difficult to see us getting a striker that's better than Watkins without CL football.
Don't really see who it is, even with Champions League football.
There are players out there who could potentially be better, but the list in his postition who definitely would be is what, Haaland, Kane and Osimhen?
There are far more teams who need a great striker than there are great strikers at the moment.
Post by: Didier Five on October 10, 2023, 02:03:37 PM
We will be talking about the exact same faults with Watkins in 12 months time, we need a serious upgrade.
Who do you think the serious upgrade on Watkins is that we should be going for?
Post by: Somniloquism on October 10, 2023, 03:00:41 PM
Those poor stats before Emery could be used on most of our players. I’d rather look at the form since Emery has been here.
It's the same thing though. He scored the vast majority, if not all, of his goals last season under Emery. And he still went for a few games at a time without scoring any. But at the end of the season his stats are good. Even now, he's scored 4, but his assists and other stats are great. And that adds to the goals coming from other people, which is what matters at the end of the day. Goals.
Seven.
Post by: AV84 on October 10, 2023, 03:18:28 PM
Those poor stats before Emery could be used on most of our players. I’d rather look at the form since Emery has been here.
It's the same thing though. He scored the vast majority, if not all, of his goals last season under Emery. And he still went for a few games at a time without scoring any. But at the end of the season his stats are good. Even now, he's scored 4, but his assists and other stats are great. And that adds to the goals coming from other people, which is what matters at the end of the day. Goals.
Seven.
In the league, should have specified. I was comparing to last season, where we didn't have European games.
Post by: eamonn on October 10, 2023, 03:19:37 PM
Kane did not score at the weekend and was eventually subbed - do you think the Germans think he is shit?
Kane won't go on a barren run of not scoring for the next two months.
Post by: Dave on October 10, 2023, 03:23:29 PM
Kane did not score at the weekend and was eventually subbed - do you think the Germans think he is shit?
Kane won't go on a barren run of not scoring for the next two months.
Bet you Ollie doesn't either.
Post by: pablo_picasso on October 10, 2023, 03:37:38 PM
His form since last November has been exceptional and he’s topping the goals/assists chart in that period. That’s a long time to be in form. I wouldn’t say that’s inconsistent.
But on the flip side, he has scored in 2 out of 8 Prem games so far this season.
So that, along with what we all see regarding some of his touches & some of his misses, I would call that inconsistent.
And I think thats part of what is frustrating, for me personally.
Because when he is good, he is really good.
But when he isn't, he really isn't.
I 'know' he can be devastating up front.
So when he isn't, it frustrates me & makes me question 'why'?
Theres no real answer other than thats who he is & Emery has helped his game ten fold, but he still frustrates me personally.
But then again, if he was as good as he could be all the time, he probably wouldn't be playing for us, where we currently are in our progression...
As for the age old question of who could replace him, right off the top of my head I think of Jonathon David. There are players out there. I liked Beto before he moved to Everton. I liked Isak before he moved to Newcastle. The lad from Arsenal, etc etc, etc...
Im still wondering if the club see Tammy Abraham as that player though...
Post by: LeeB on October 10, 2023, 04:02:52 PM
Tammy Abraham is nowhere near as good as Ollie.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 10, 2023, 04:34:28 PM
Tammy isn't a patch on Ollie imo.
Post by: Pat Mustard on October 10, 2023, 04:35:39 PM
I'm going to put this out there:
Tammy Abraham is nowhere near as good as Ollie.
Yep - all of Watkins' limitations (erratic touch and finishing) without the benefits.
Post by: chrisw1 on October 10, 2023, 05:14:43 PM
Post by: Drummond on October 10, 2023, 05:19:58 PM
I think it's hard to say with Tammy. I'd like to see him have a consistent run in the PL before writing him off. I think it's easy to forget just how good he was for us.
At a lower level.
Post by: Dave on October 10, 2023, 05:25:46 PM
I think it's hard to say with Tammy. I'd like to see him have a consistent run in the PL before writing him off. I think it's easy to forget just how good he was for us.
At a lower level.
He got thirty in two seasons at Chelsea before he went to Roma.
I wouldn't be looking at him as our new striker either, but I don't think a season in the Championship 4-5 years ago would be the evidence I'd use, either for or against.
Post by: Clampy on October 10, 2023, 05:40:43 PM
Post by: brontebilly on October 10, 2023, 05:53:03 PM
Difficult to see us getting a striker that's better than Watkins without CL football.
We won't get one..we have other glaring problems in the squad that we need to prioritise. Watkins first touch is, and always has been, average at best.
But look at his second half performance the last day of everything else he brings...brilliant shot from McGinn cross, forces great save. Cracking assist for Torres. Fouled for a blatant peno not given and hits post in last play. Aside from that he's putting in a shift without the ball. Someone like Zaniolo could learn a lot from him.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on October 10, 2023, 06:13:23 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 10, 2023, 06:53:47 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/5FmmHDB/IMG-0668.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5FmmHDB)
Post by: Rigadon on October 10, 2023, 07:17:32 PM
Difficult to see us getting a striker that's better than Watkins without CL football.
Don't really see who it is, even with Champions League football.
There are players out there who could potentially be better, but the list in his postition who definitely would be is what, Haaland, Kane and Osimhen?
There are far more teams who need a great striker than there are great strikers at the moment.
Fair shout, especially in our team. The better player would be Watkins with clinical finishing. Whether that player actually exists (even in the upper echelons) I wouldn't actually know, because I don't watch other football that much anymore.
Maybe it's upgrades on supporting players.
Post by: Mister E on October 10, 2023, 07:34:01 PM
]I think, with Ramsey, Moreno and Buendia missing as providers, judging Watkins is kinda hard. Yes, he misses stuff. But there aren't many strikers in the sub-£100m market that will do much better.
There are players out there who could potentially be better, but the list in his postition who definitely would be is what, Haaland, Kane and Osimhen?
There are far more teams who need a great striker than there are great strikers at the moment.
Fair shout, especially in our team. The better player would be Watkins with clinical finishing. Whether that player actually exists (even in the upper echelons) I wouldn't actually know, because I don't watch other football that much anymore.
Maybe it's upgrades on supporting players.
[/quote]
Post by: Dave on October 10, 2023, 07:38:27 PM
Difficult to see us getting a striker that's better than Watkins without CL football.
Don't really see who it is, even with Champions League football.
There are players out there who could potentially be better, but the list in his postition who definitely would be is what, Haaland, Kane and Osimhen?
There are far more teams who need a great striker than there are great strikers at the moment.
Fair shout, especially in our team. The better player would be Watkins with clinical finishing. Whether that player actually exists (even in the upper echelons) I wouldn't actually know, because I don't watch other football that much anymore.
Put it this way, Man Utd are still a massive draw for players - but even when they had £80m to spend, they still had to drop it on a guy who has never scored more than ten goals in a season before.
If the sort of obvious upgrade for Watkins existed, I reckon that player would be at Man Utd right now instead of Hojlund.
Also if Watkins keeps up anything like his current form, I think it's more likely someone tests us with a £80m bid, than us being keen to move him into a sub role.
Post by: john e on October 10, 2023, 10:51:36 PM
was considered a very good striker, but not world-class and there would be other strikers about at the time similar
He’d be worth 100 million now because those sort of natural finishing strikers are not about anymore
Post by: eamonn on October 10, 2023, 11:26:46 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 11, 2023, 04:49:24 AM
Post by: Chris Smith on October 11, 2023, 08:02:08 AM
There is a dearth of top quality strikers, Watkins for all his attributes would not be any where near the top flight in previous decades. But right now it would be very difficult for us to get much better.
I am not sure that stands up to scrutiny. The game has changed in so many - laws, technology, fitness, pitches, coaching etc - that making meaningful comparisons becomes almost impossible. What was asked of a striker in the 90s is a world removed from what is required now.
Post by: Dante Lavelli on October 11, 2023, 08:03:09 AM
Rinse and repeat until we find the next “Kane” with Ollie providing the consistency and benchmark in the meantime.
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 11, 2023, 09:03:03 AM
Get that but one thing you needed was first touch (particularly when you consider the state of the pitches) and sadly Watkins doesn’t have that.There is a dearth of top quality strikers, Watkins for all his attributes would not be any where near the top flight in previous decades. But right now it would be very difficult for us to get much better.
I am not sure that stands up to scrutiny. The game has changed in so many - laws, technology, fitness, pitches, coaching etc - that making meaningful comparisons becomes almost impossible. What was asked of a striker in the 90s is a world removed from what is required now.
Post by: Somniloquism on October 11, 2023, 09:08:52 AM
Remember Kevin Philips he played for a few clubs including us scored goals at them All
was considered a very good striker, but not world-class and there would be other strikers about at the time similar
He’d be worth 100 million now because those sort of natural finishing strikers are not about anymore
The trouble is his scoring record is very skewed between his appearances in the 2nd Level and his appearances in the top flight. His first prem season he slaughtered it, but was then found out and he only beat 15 goals three times in 13 years since that season, and all three times was in the Championship.
Post by: OCD on October 11, 2023, 11:21:33 AM
Ollie signing provides great security. From now, we should buy the world’s best 18 year old strikers.
Rinse and repeat until we find the next “Kane” with Ollie providing the consistency and benchmark in the meantime.
Problem is other clubs are doing that and even though they're often unproven, they can still be expensive. So you risk spending a lot on someone who doesn't make it.
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 11, 2023, 01:32:37 PM
Ollie signing provides great security. From now, we should buy the world’s best 18 year old strikers.
Rinse and repeat until we find the next “Kane” with Ollie providing the consistency and benchmark in the meantime.
And maybe Rory Wilson is that guy if his current rate of progress is to continue
Post by: LeeB on October 11, 2023, 01:33:34 PM
Natural finishers that offer bugger-all else (Ings) have become more redundant though.
And the thing is that 'natural finisher' missed loads of bloody chances. There were enough in that 4-0 home defeat to Spurs to cover ollie for a season.
Post by: Drummond on October 11, 2023, 01:38:46 PM
Ollie signing provides great security. From now, we should buy the world’s best 18 year old strikers.
Rinse and repeat until we find the next “Kane” with Ollie providing the consistency and benchmark in the meantime.
And maybe Rory Wilson is that guy if his current rate of progress is to continue
Or Duran.
Post by: Dante Lavelli on October 11, 2023, 01:43:18 PM
Ollie signing provides great security. From now, we should buy the world’s best 18 year old strikers.
Rinse and repeat until we find the next “Kane” with Ollie providing the consistency and benchmark in the meantime.
Problem is other clubs are doing that and even though they're often unproven, they can still be expensive. So you risk spending a lot on someone who doesn't make it.
Arguably £40-50m doesn’t guarantee success nowadays. It’ll be interesting to see how the £70m player at Man U develops as that ‘failure bar’ might get higher.
Watkins becomes the insurance policy whilst we can throw the dice at least a couple of times for the same money.
Post by: Rigadon on October 12, 2023, 06:08:44 AM
An interesting article / interview…. It’s so odd to me how these players are advised regarding ‘socials’ and their ‘profile’. And then how that leads to fingers in the ear celebrations to ‘fickle’ fans.
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 12, 2023, 06:33:55 AM
Post by: pablo_picasso on October 12, 2023, 11:18:55 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/oct/11/im-ok-with-silence-quiet-man-watkins-aiming-to-turn-up-volume
An interesting article / interview…. It’s so odd to me how these players are advised regarding ‘socials’ and their ‘profile’. And then how that leads to fingers in the ear celebrations to ‘fickle’ fans.
I did wonder if those fingers in ears was aimed at Villa fans.
Im not sure its fair to call fans "fickle" for highlighting issues with his game.
Especially the fans who still highlight those issues while he is on one of his scoring runs.
As I said before, I think a striker who has scored in 2 out of 8 Prem games isn't immune to criticism.
Especially when they are showing a trampoline touch & missing sitters in more games than he is scoring in.
Even if they think they are immune to criticism & cant see the irony of giving a little criticism to fans who are giving a little criticism...
Post by: Somniloquism on October 12, 2023, 11:23:48 AM
Post by: Dave on October 12, 2023, 11:26:06 AM
As I said before, I think a striker who has scored in 2 out of 8 Prem games isn't immune to criticism.
Sure - but given he's the most in-form striker in the league at the moment, it seems like an odd time to do it.
Post by: Risso on October 12, 2023, 11:29:16 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/oct/11/im-ok-with-silence-quiet-man-watkins-aiming-to-turn-up-volume
An interesting article / interview…. It’s so odd to me how these players are advised regarding ‘socials’ and their ‘profile’. And then how that leads to fingers in the ear celebrations to ‘fickle’ fans.
I did wonder if those fingers in ears was aimed at Villa fans.
Im not sure its fair to call fans "fickle" for highlighting issues with his game.
Especially the fans who still highlight those issues while he is on one of his scoring runs.
As I said before, I think a striker who has scored in 2 out of 8 Prem games isn't immune to criticism.
Especially when they are showing a trampoline touch & missing sitters in more games than he is scoring in.
Even if they think they are immune to criticism & cant see the irony of giving a little criticism to fans who are giving a little criticism...
I wondered about that too, and he's now confirmed it. He's gone down a lot in my estimation to be honest.
Post by: Didier Five on October 12, 2023, 11:34:15 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/oct/11/im-ok-with-silence-quiet-man-watkins-aiming-to-turn-up-volume
An interesting article / interview…. It’s so odd to me how these players are advised regarding ‘socials’ and their ‘profile’. And then how that leads to fingers in the ear celebrations to ‘fickle’ fans.
I did wonder if those fingers in ears was aimed at Villa fans.
Im not sure its fair to call fans "fickle" for highlighting issues with his game.
Especially the fans who still highlight those issues while he is on one of his scoring runs.
As I said before, I think a striker who has scored in 2 out of 8 Prem games isn't immune to criticism.
Especially when they are showing a trampoline touch & missing sitters in more games than he is scoring in.
Even if they think they are immune to criticism & cant see the irony of giving a little criticism to fans who are giving a little criticism...
I wondered about that too, and he's now confirmed it. He's gone down a lot in my estimation to be honest.
I'm sure he will be gutted.
Post by: Risso on October 12, 2023, 11:36:50 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/oct/11/im-ok-with-silence-quiet-man-watkins-aiming-to-turn-up-volume
An interesting article / interview…. It’s so odd to me how these players are advised regarding ‘socials’ and their ‘profile’. And then how that leads to fingers in the ear celebrations to ‘fickle’ fans.
I did wonder if those fingers in ears was aimed at Villa fans.
Im not sure its fair to call fans "fickle" for highlighting issues with his game.
Especially the fans who still highlight those issues while he is on one of his scoring runs.
As I said before, I think a striker who has scored in 2 out of 8 Prem games isn't immune to criticism.
Especially when they are showing a trampoline touch & missing sitters in more games than he is scoring in.
Even if they think they are immune to criticism & cant see the irony of giving a little criticism to fans who are giving a little criticism...
I wondered about that too, and he's now confirmed it. He's gone down a lot in my estimation to be honest.
I'm sure he will be gutted.
I expect he will be, maybe he'll do another 'celebration'. Fingers on lips doing a shushing sound next time perhaps.
Post by: chrisw1 on October 12, 2023, 11:45:23 AM
Post by: Axl Rose on October 12, 2023, 11:46:01 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/oct/11/im-ok-with-silence-quiet-man-watkins-aiming-to-turn-up-volume
An interesting article / interview…. It’s so odd to me how these players are advised regarding ‘socials’ and their ‘profile’. And then how that leads to fingers in the ear celebrations to ‘fickle’ fans.
I did wonder if those fingers in ears was aimed at Villa fans.
Im not sure its fair to call fans "fickle" for highlighting issues with his game.
Especially the fans who still highlight those issues while he is on one of his scoring runs.
As I said before, I think a striker who has scored in 2 out of 8 Prem games isn't immune to criticism.
Especially when they are showing a trampoline touch & missing sitters in more games than he is scoring in.
Even if they think they are immune to criticism & cant see the irony of giving a little criticism to fans who are giving a little criticism...
I wondered about that too, and he's now confirmed it. He's gone down a lot in my estimation to be honest.
I'm sure he will be gutted.
I expect he will be, maybe he'll do another 'celebration'. Fingers on lips doing a shushing sound next time perhaps.
😂
Post by: Risso on October 12, 2023, 11:57:35 AM
That's both McGinn and Watkins referred to our fans recently (McGin twice). Players clearly do read and hear stuff and no doubt it impacts some players more than others. I don't really like the inference that Villa fans are harsher than fans from some other clubs, but perhaps we are?
Are we heck. Have you heard the booing at Man U and Chelsea this season?
Post by: pablo_picasso on October 12, 2023, 12:09:13 PM
Yep. ignore the 21 in 39 games. Ignore the 4 goals in 8 prem games and three more games assisted in. Ignore the two penalties won, both of which he probably would have scored if not taken out. Just choose the stats that make him look worse.
I have highlighted some of his wonderful play in a previous post.
If you haven't read it then fair enough, but you did reply on the same page after I had posted it.
My overall point was my frustration with his poor play because he can be so devastating.
But there is no getting away from the fact that in 8 Prem games this season, he hasn't scored in 6 of them.
Which is a concern when you see some of his misses in those games & I feel that is fair game for comments & criticism.
If you don't, then that is your opinion & you are fully entitled to it.
But he cant call me, or fans like me, "fickle" for only loving him when he scores.
Because I have praised elements of his game when he has been off form & I have criticised elements of his game when he has been on form...
Post by: chrisw1 on October 12, 2023, 12:09:29 PM
Post by: Paul.S on October 12, 2023, 12:13:32 PM
That's both McGinn and Watkins referred to our fans recently (McGin twice). Players clearly do read and hear stuff and no doubt it impacts some players more than others. I don't really like the inference that Villa fans are harsher than fans from some other clubs, but perhaps we are?
I think that players today listen too much to what’s on social media. I cannot remember hearing either McGinn or Watkins being booed at a game. Some of the criticism of them on forums is harsh and some justified but these players have been supported where it matters.
I do think that the cheering of Tielemans making a decent pass at the last European game was a bit below the belt but the criticism of him after was entirely justified.
If Watkins thinks he hasn’t been supported by the fans at games he’s massively wrong and if that gesture was aimed at fans he needs to think again. I say if because the press do like to take headline grabbing comments and blow them up.
As for our fans, they are no different to any others and I’d say for the rubbish we’ve had to put up with over the last decade or so we’ve been amongst the best.
Post by: pablo_picasso on October 12, 2023, 12:23:04 PM
As I said before, I think a striker who has scored in 2 out of 8 Prem games isn't immune to criticism.
Sure - but given he's the most in-form striker in the league at the moment, it seems like an odd time to do it.
I think that is a fairly subjective thing to say.
Some of his stats could be used to say that he is on form, others suggest he isn't.
And watching some of his touches & misses suggest he isn't. To me anyway...
But like I said just now, I praise him for the good things & I criticise him for the bad.
And I will do that with every player we have.
I think strikers are more in the firing line in the same way that Olsen is at the other end.
Because the positives & negatives are more amplified due to the way they affect games so drastically.
And again, I will add it in here cos I said it a few pages back & individual messages lose some of the context.
I like a lot of Watkins game. He works hard, is selfless & offers us a lot up top even when he isn't giving an end product.
But he frustrates me because he is "feast or famine" & when he mis-controls a simple ball or misses an easy chance, its doubly annoying for me personally because I have seen him be positive at similar opportunities in the past. Especially when it costs us points.
It wasn't so long ago that a some people were asking for Duran to take his place to take him out of the firing line. A hat-trick later & he's the toast of the town again. Not saying thats you, or having a dig at anyone.
Thats not saying I want him sacked or anything. I just don't think players that are on form are immune to criticism or that a player out of form needs to be slated.
That's both McGinn and Watkins referred to our fans recently (McGin twice). Players clearly do read and hear stuff and no doubt it impacts some players more than others. I don't really like the inference that Villa fans are harsher than fans from some other clubs, but perhaps we are?
We aren't.
Post by: Dave on October 12, 2023, 12:34:49 PM
As I said before, I think a striker who has scored in 2 out of 8 Prem games isn't immune to criticism.
Sure - but given he's the most in-form striker in the league at the moment, it seems like an odd time to do it.
I think that is a fairly subjective thing to say.
Some of his stats could be used to say that he is on form, others suggest he isn't.
And watching some of his touches & misses suggest he isn't. To me anyway...
Lots of stuff that would get broad agreement is subjective. "Emi Martinez is a good goalkeeper" is subjective. "Villa Park is an attractive place to watch football" is subjective. "Douglas Luiz is playing better under Emery than Gerrard" is subjective.
But y'know, they're still all true.
I'd say that if you wanted to argue that "(Watkins) is the most in-form striker in the league at the moment" doesn't belong alongside those examples above, you'd probably have to come up with a plausible suggestion of who is, if not him.
Post by: Rigadon on October 12, 2023, 12:40:04 PM
Anyway, whatever. Keep banging the goals in and playing his 'A' game and we'll all be happy.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 12, 2023, 12:49:19 PM
His goal scoring tally is good anyway, even if he’s not the most clinical, but his all round play is crucial. Just look at how we do when he’s not playing.
Post by: pablo_picasso on October 12, 2023, 01:02:33 PM
As I said before, I think a striker who has scored in 2 out of 8 Prem games isn't immune to criticism.
Sure - but given he's the most in-form striker in the league at the moment, it seems like an odd time to do it.
I think that is a fairly subjective thing to say.
Some of his stats could be used to say that he is on form, others suggest he isn't.
And watching some of his touches & misses suggest he isn't. To me anyway...
Lots of stuff that would get broad agreement is subjective. "Emi Martinez is a good goalkeeper" is subjective. "Villa Park is an attractive place to watch football" is subjective. "Douglas Luiz is playing better under Emery than Gerrard" is subjective.
But y'know, they're still all true.
I'd say that if you wanted to argue that "(Watkins) is the most in-form striker in the league at the moment" doesn't belong alongside those examples above, you'd probably have to come up with a plausible suggestion of who is, if not him.
I wouldn't disagree with any of those three.
But I know people who would...
And I don't agree I would have to say who is more "in form" because without wanting to sound rude, I don't particularly care about other strikers & their form other than when they play us, or how their goals affect us.
I only really care about Watkins because of the obvious...
I suppose it all comes down to the terminology of "most in-form striker".
Because it suggests comparison to other players.
And again, it is subjective to who else is "in-form", as per the convo above.
And we agree on (I think it was you who mentioned it), that goals are not the only measure of a striker.
But I don't think it was me who mentioned him being "the most in-form striker".
If I did, then its a slip of the tongue & I apologise, as I was not looking to do a comparison...
Post by: pablo_picasso on October 12, 2023, 01:06:17 PM
I also think a point that gets missed when people focus solely on his goal scoring is his overall impact on the team enables us to be much more effective and he contributes to goals.
His goal scoring tally is good anyway, even if he’s not the most clinical, but his all round play is crucial. Just look at how we do when he’s not playing.
I would like to point out that I haven't focused purely on his goalscoring & have praised this element of his play.
I know you haven't mentioned me, but I think in the other comments I have made, this can get missed that I have actually praised this element of his game...
Post by: Drummond on October 12, 2023, 01:07:07 PM
He could be better, because everyone could be better. Football these days means playing more than one role in a team; even keepers are playing football rather than making saves and booting it out, and Watkins does it well. And we're a weaker team without him in it. There are very few players in the world I'd rather have than him in the team.
Post by: LeeB on October 12, 2023, 01:14:37 PM
I bet Unai thinks he's a godsend too.
Post by: RamboandBruno on October 12, 2023, 01:15:49 PM
He's fucking brilliant and adds so much to our team, he misses chances that others wouldn't even get because of the positions he gets himself into. He works harder than anyone. He defends from the front and gives the team release when under pressure.
He could be better, because everyone could be better. Football these days means playing more than one role in a team; even keepers are playing football rather than making saves and booting it out, and Watkins does it well. And we're a weaker team without him in it. There are very few players in the world I'd rather have than him in the team.
Love this post
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 12, 2023, 01:22:32 PM
I feel Southgate doesn't fancy him so much for England but the opportunity to play against Australia will be there in a friendly.
I wonder if he will get minutes against Italy?
In a meaningful match.
I suspect not.
So how are those to judge if he's deemed good enough.
I think he perfectly fine to take on Italy if given a chance.
Post by: Somniloquism on October 12, 2023, 02:48:56 PM
Yep. ignore the 21 in 39 games. Ignore the 4 goals in 8 prem games and three more games assisted in. Ignore the two penalties won, both of which he probably would have scored if not taken out. Just choose the stats that make him look worse.
I have highlighted some of his wonderful play in a previous post.
If you haven't read it then fair enough, but you did reply on the same page after I had posted it.
Was that the one that starts with the downer sentence, offers slight praise then dishes him again? You can see why I didn't see as "praise for his wonderful play". I will admit he isn't a natural finisher, there is a reason he doesn't take penalties for example. However I reckon if he had scored his four goals in four separate matches, people would have been complaining, like they were last season, that he is only scoring one goal a match and he needs to score more in each match.
Yes it is frustrating when attackers don't score, however for most teams now, football has changed to being more a team of attackers rather then one or two. For example, Citeh scored more league goals the season before Haaland started then they did the season he started. Their top scorer had 15 (KDB) with two others getting double figures (Mahrez and Sterling). I'm not stating we will win the league if he only got 15, but just stating that strikers scoring as a yardstick needs to be used less and less. As long as he is contributing and getting goals scored elsewhere, I don't have any real complaints with his play.
If anything, my main complaint this season is the amount of corners we have, yet we have barely scored any. And that is not just Watkins. It is strange that we have gone from a set play scoring team in the past, with few from open play, to one that rarely scores from set-plays (apart from penalties) but have had one of our best scoring starts.
Post by: Dave on October 12, 2023, 02:53:34 PM
If anything, my main complaint this season is the amount of corners we have, yet we have barely scored any. And that is not just Watkins. It is strange that we have gone from a set play scoring team in the past, with few from open play, to one that rarely scores from set-plays (apart from penalties) but have had one of our best scoring starts.
Reckon we need Buendia back for that, he scored a weirdly large amount of headers for a guy who's about 5ft 2.
Post by: Smithy on October 12, 2023, 03:22:55 PM
If anything, my main complaint this season is the amount of corners we have, yet we have barely scored any. And that is not just Watkins. It is strange that we have gone from a set play scoring team in the past, with few from open play, to one that rarely scores from set-plays (apart from penalties) but have had one of our best scoring starts.
Reckon we need Buendia back for that, he scored a weirdly large amount of headers for a guy who's about 5ft 2.
I genuinely think it's because people switch off around him, believing him not to be much of a threat in the air. But he's actually really good with his head, and times his runs and leaps to meet the ball brilliantly.
Post by: Somniloquism on October 12, 2023, 04:32:23 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 12, 2023, 04:35:16 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on October 12, 2023, 04:43:06 PM
Post by: pablo_picasso on October 12, 2023, 06:04:38 PM
Yep. ignore the 21 in 39 games. Ignore the 4 goals in 8 prem games and three more games assisted in. Ignore the two penalties won, both of which he probably would have scored if not taken out. Just choose the stats that make him look worse.
I have highlighted some of his wonderful play in a previous post.
If you haven't read it then fair enough, but you did reply on the same page after I had posted it.
Was that the one that starts with the downer sentence, offers slight praise then dishes him again? You can see why I didn't see as "praise for his wonderful play". I will admit he isn't a natural finisher, there is a reason he doesn't take penalties for example. However I reckon if he had scored his four goals in four separate matches, people would have been complaining, like they were last season, that he is only scoring one goal a match and he needs to score more in each match.
Yes it is frustrating when attackers don't score, however for most teams now, football has changed to being more a team of attackers rather then one or two. For example, Citeh scored more league goals the season before Haaland started then they did the season he started. Their top scorer had 15 (KDB) with two others getting double figures (Mahrez and Sterling). I'm not stating we will win the league if he only got 15, but just stating that strikers scoring as a yardstick needs to be used less and less. As long as he is contributing and getting goals scored elsewhere, I don't have any real complaints with his play.
If anything, my main complaint this season is the amount of corners we have, yet we have barely scored any. And that is not just Watkins. It is strange that we have gone from a set play scoring team in the past, with few from open play, to one that rarely scores from set-plays (apart from penalties) but have had one of our best scoring starts.
Its this one, where I give him high praise for the positive elements of his game & then describe what I find frustrating about the negative elements of his game, specifically because of the positive elements of his game.
Which is consistent with the opinions I held before he scored the hat-trick.
I agree with you about set pieces though. Is it Austin McFee who is the set piece coach?
He had us dialled in not so long ago..
I find his inconsistent "feast or famine" form very frustrating.
When he is on his game, he is brilliant. His work rate, selfless running, closing down, etc, are invaluable.
When he adds goals & a first touch that is decent, he is pretty much unplayable.
But when he is off it, granted he still works hard, makes selfless runs & closes down, etc, & that is invaluable, but when he misses simple chances that he was banging away a couple of weeks previous, or his touch is that of a small garden trampoline, I find it infuriating & frustrating why he swings so wildly with the basics of his role.
If he didn't work hard, no matter what, I would want to sell him.
As it stands, I would love to keep him, but I would also love to bring in a strong, tall & pacy striker to compete with him for the starting spot, as well as offering us something different up top. (Although Duran might be that guy.)
And if we find another "I didn't want Ings here as competition" situation, then he will have to suck it up & accept that he is a footballer in a squad game.
Post by: olaftab on October 12, 2023, 06:54:05 PM
Post by: baddowvillans on October 12, 2023, 06:55:07 PM
Willing runner and worker is Ollie. Always gives a lot to the side. We have to embrace his positives but having a killer instinct is not one.
And yet he is 3rd most proficient striker in the Premier League despite not playing for a Sky 6 club
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 12, 2023, 07:39:20 PM
Yep. ignore the 21 in 39 games. Ignore the 4 goals in 8 prem games and three more games assisted in. Ignore the two penalties won, both of which he probably would have scored if not taken out. Just choose the stats that make him look worse.
I have highlighted some of his wonderful play in a previous post.
If you haven't read it then fair enough, but you did reply on the same page after I had posted it.
Was that the one that starts with the downer sentence, offers slight praise then dishes him again? You can see why I didn't see as "praise for his wonderful play". I will admit he isn't a natural finisher, there is a reason he doesn't take penalties for example. However I reckon if he had scored his four goals in four separate matches, people would have been complaining, like they were last season, that he is only scoring one goal a match and he needs to score more in each match.
I think the opposite. We'd all forget the numerous misses as he's scored a goal. Players can have a poor game but if they score everybody is singing their praises, much like when Villa don't turn up for 80 minutes but finish the game well, the first 80 are generally forgotten. What was his last famine run, 1 in 12 or 13?
One thing I don't think anybody has mentioned is how Watkins manages to regularly score against the top clubs. Maybe it's due to us playing on the break which suits more his game. Releasing him down the left, watch him cut inside avoiding the early block from normally two defenders and seeing him shoot is pretty much a typical Watkins goal, he's done so many times. He does it against some of the best defenders in the league so credit where it's due.
He struggles when there is a compact defence and a short ball is played into him as his first touch is so poor. I was encouraged to see him get a tap in against Brighton, he's generally brilliant at reading the game and getting himself in the right position. I say tap in but it was a lovely finish, putting the ball away from the keeper in the corner of the net. Top strikers always put it in the corner.
After signing his contract he claimed he wants to improve. Good attitude and loads of room for improvement. Bring it on.
Post by: pablo_picasso on October 12, 2023, 08:05:30 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 12, 2023, 08:08:48 PM
Hoping he sorts that occasional dodgy touch out soon :)
Post by: frankmosswasmyuncle on October 12, 2023, 08:09:35 PM
That's pretty much perfect as a summary of Ollie's play Rudy!Yep. ignore the 21 in 39 games. Ignore the 4 goals in 8 prem games and three more games assisted in. Ignore the two penalties won, both of which he probably would have scored if not taken out. Just choose the stats that make him look worse.
I have highlighted some of his wonderful play in a previous post.
If you haven't read it then fair enough, but you did reply on the same page after I had posted it.
Was that the one that starts with the downer sentence, offers slight praise then dishes him again? You can see why I didn't see as "praise for his wonderful play". I will admit he isn't a natural finisher, there is a reason he doesn't take penalties for example. However I reckon if he had scored his four goals in four separate matches, people would have been complaining, like they were last season, that he is only scoring one goal a match and he needs to score more in each match.
I think the opposite. We'd all forget the numerous misses as he's scored a goal. Players can have a poor game but if they score everybody is singing their praises, much like when Villa don't turn up for 80 minutes but finish the game well, the first 80 are generally forgotten. What was his last famine run, 1 in 12 or 13?
One thing I don't think anybody has mentioned is how Watkins manages to regularly score against the top clubs. Maybe it's due to us playing on the break which suits more his game. Releasing him down the left, watch him cut inside avoiding the early block from normally two defenders and seeing him shoot is pretty much a typical Watkins goal, he's done so many times. He does it against some of the best defenders in the league so credit where it's due.
He struggles when there is a compact defence and a short ball is played into him as his first touch is so poor. I was encouraged to see him get a tap in against Brighton, he's generally brilliant at reading the game and getting himself in the right position. I say tap in but it was a lovely finish, putting the ball away from the keeper in the corner of the net. Top strikers always put it in the corner.
After signing his contract he claimed he wants to improve. Good attitude and loads of room for improvement. Bring it on.
Spot on!
Post by: Somniloquism on October 12, 2023, 08:43:44 PM
I think the opposite. We'd all forget the numerous misses as he's scored a goal. Players can have a poor game but if they score everybody is singing their praises, much like when Villa don't turn up for 80 minutes but finish the game well, the first 80 are generally forgotten. What was his last famine run, 1 in 12 or 13?
I'm pretty sure if you go back in this thread to his scoring run (probably the West Ham game as he scored but we didn't win) there were people complaining he was only getting one in match and he should get more and if he did we would have won. Now we have the only scored twice in eight games, seemingly ignoring the four assists, and the non-countable assists like penalty awards, shooting and someone following up, or ones classed as OGs. So another four goals directly attributable to Watkins play that I can remember. (Two pens, Luiz last goal after the keeper saved against Brighton and the pass to Diaby which caused the OG in the same match).
The rest of your post I totally agree with though.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 12, 2023, 11:19:54 PM
In 2023 he's 3rd in goals/assists in the PL behind Haaland and Salah.
This season he's 3rd in goals/assists in the PL behind Haaland and Salah.
Post by: VillaTim on October 12, 2023, 11:20:50 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 13, 2023, 09:22:40 AM
he is improving, he's doing well.
He is being demanding.
Post by: Duncan Shaw on October 13, 2023, 09:37:43 AM
Wonder if he's been tapped up yet
He's off to Spuds anyway now Lange is there, isn't he??? ;D ;D ;D ::) ::) ::)
Post by: john e on October 13, 2023, 10:24:18 AM
Wonder if he's been tapped up yet
He's off to Spuds anyway now Lange is there, isn't he??? ;D ;D ;D ::) ::) ::)
I wonder what Levy will be offering this time
He’s a genius negotiator you know
Post by: LeeB on October 13, 2023, 11:25:02 AM
Post by: AV84 on October 13, 2023, 11:41:27 AM
he is improving, he's doing well.
He is being demanding.
He is trying all the time to do something.
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 13, 2023, 11:47:52 AM
I mean, I get the thing with tapping up but any interest in a player these days would just surely be know through the agent, plus the player has literally just signed a new long term contract.I think there is a release clause to start a bidding war.
Post by: Mister E on October 13, 2023, 12:00:23 PM
I think there is a release clause to start a bidding war.Source?
Post by: pablo_picasso on October 13, 2023, 12:26:49 PM
I think the opposite. We'd all forget the numerous misses as he's scored a goal. Players can have a poor game but if they score everybody is singing their praises, much like when Villa don't turn up for 80 minutes but finish the game well, the first 80 are generally forgotten. What was his last famine run, 1 in 12 or 13?
I'm pretty sure if you go back in this thread to his scoring run (probably the West Ham game as he scored but we didn't win) there were people complaining he was only getting one in match and he should get more and if he did we would have won. Now we have the only scored twice in eight games, seemingly ignoring the four assists, and the non-countable assists like penalty awards, shooting and someone following up, or ones classed as OGs. So another four goals directly attributable to Watkins play that I can remember. (Two pens, Luiz last goal after the keeper saved against Brighton and the pass to Diaby which caused the OG in the same match).
The rest of your post I totally agree with though.
If you are talking about me, then its not "now we have... ...."
Not from my end anyways.
I have always stated that he is a "feast or famine" type striker & despite highlighting some very high praise positives about his game, quoted on the previous page for your viewing pleasure, in case you have missed it again, I have also highlighted what frustrates me about some of the negatives. Using some factual data to back up my personal opinion. And it is just my own subjective personal opinion.
My point being that not everything has to be all candy-floss grass & lollipop trees.
And neither does it have to be all doom & gloom.
Players in form are not immune to some level of criticism for their negatives & players out of form sometimes deserve a little understanding for their positives.
Look, I don't want to get into an argument with you, or anybody else. And I am starting to understand that the way I communicate on this site is not always fully understood. I get the impression that my communication skills often put across a more aggressive tone that I intend in my head. I tend to type a bit how I talk & when I talk, while often quite brutally honest, I can add tone, which usually shows a little more light hearted side to what I say.
And thats on me. All I can do is work on that going forward...
Tbh, the only reason I commented more on this was due to Watkins media interview where he pretty much admitted to
I just wanted to point out that not all of us are actually fickle & the conversation has snowballed a little.
Edited my error.
Post by: Somniloquism on October 13, 2023, 12:57:02 PM
All good on the rest though. No need to change your posting style, we are all different and I post in a similar style, which as you state without the body languages and nuances will also be construed as confrontational.
Post by: paul_e on October 13, 2023, 01:14:05 PM
Personally I find the outrage that people in the game might know any of this, and sometimes talk about it or be affected by it, as far more annoying, you're a fucking Villa fan, it's perfectly ok to be irrational about Villa and Villa players but don't throw a fucking fit if someone points it out.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 13, 2023, 01:16:30 PM
Post by: paul_e on October 13, 2023, 01:36:01 PM
Yeah, but by the same measure, Paul, everything about football is irrational, ultimately, so nothing should surprise us.
True
Post by: pablo_picasso on October 13, 2023, 01:48:06 PM
He didn't shush the fans, he put his fingers in his ears which to me was "he isn't listening" to the criticisms. Might be semantics but I do think there is a difference. The fickle comment was bad form though, especially with the connotations of the previous person who mentioned we are fickle.
All good on the rest though. No need to change your posting style, we are all different and I post in a similar style, which as you state without the body languages and nuances will also be construed as confrontational.
You're right, I got that gesture wrong. 👍
And I agree, there is a difference between the two...
Post by: Bad English on October 13, 2023, 02:25:07 PM
Football fans are fickle, Villa fans included. In much the same way almost every football fan in the world is a hypocrite to some degree, almost ever football fan is biased to some degree and most of those who try to claim they aren't actually end up going too far the other way and being overly harsh with their own team/players.Are match threads included?
Personally I find the outrage that people in the game might know any of this, and sometimes talk about it or be affected by it, as far more annoying, you're a fucking Villa fan, it's perfectly ok to be irrational about Villa and Villa players but don't throw a fucking fit if someone points it out.
Post by: paul_e on October 13, 2023, 02:47:38 PM
Football fans are fickle, Villa fans included. In much the same way almost every football fan in the world is a hypocrite to some degree, almost ever football fan is biased to some degree and most of those who try to claim they aren't actually end up going too far the other way and being overly harsh with their own team/players.Are match threads included?
Personally I find the outrage that people in the game might know any of this, and sometimes talk about it or be affected by it, as far more annoying, you're a fucking Villa fan, it's perfectly ok to be irrational about Villa and Villa players but don't throw a fucking fit if someone points it out.
Yep, especially the bit about people throwing a fit if someone mentions people being irrational on there, it's almost like I wrote that with you in mind.
Post by: john e on October 13, 2023, 03:36:45 PM
I’ve done that on numerous occasions with different players down the ages
But on Ollie my view is pretty much the same as it’s always been
I think his touch is woeful and he is not great at holding up the ball when it’s played up to him from distance
But as the stats suggest he has plenty of assists to his name, and he has scored goals which is the most important requirement
Most importantly for me there’s no one out there that we are capable of getting who is any better
all this upgrade talk is a waste of time cause there ain’t anyone about
so he might be limited and sometimes a bit lightweight but he also does a lot of other things very well, assisting and scoring which makes him a very important member of the team
Post by: Bad English on October 13, 2023, 03:47:41 PM
I love it when you talk dirty like that Paulie.Football fans are fickle, Villa fans included. In much the same way almost every football fan in the world is a hypocrite to some degree, almost ever football fan is biased to some degree and most of those who try to claim they aren't actually end up going too far the other way and being overly harsh with their own team/players.Are match threads included?
Personally I find the outrage that people in the game might know any of this, and sometimes talk about it or be affected by it, as far more annoying, you're a fucking Villa fan, it's perfectly ok to be irrational about Villa and Villa players but don't throw a fucking fit if someone points it out.
Yep, especially the bit about people throwing a fit if someone mentions people being irrational on there, it's almost like I wrote that with you in mind.
Also, I love your sense of deep exaggeration, you have a knack for telling a tale. You make me go queasy at the knees with the power and thrust of your verb.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 13, 2023, 03:49:15 PM
I love it when you talk dirty like that Paulie.Football fans are fickle, Villa fans included. In much the same way almost every football fan in the world is a hypocrite to some degree, almost ever football fan is biased to some degree and most of those who try to claim they aren't actually end up going too far the other way and being overly harsh with their own team/players.Are match threads included?
Personally I find the outrage that people in the game might know any of this, and sometimes talk about it or be affected by it, as far more annoying, you're a fucking Villa fan, it's perfectly ok to be irrational about Villa and Villa players but don't throw a fucking fit if someone points it out.
Yep, especially the bit about people throwing a fit if someone mentions people being irrational on there, it's almost like I wrote that with you in mind.
Freudian?
Post by: Bad English on October 13, 2023, 04:07:09 PM
Autocorrect. I meant to write 'paulie' for' paul-e'. But yes, I love how he sternly admonishes me. He could be my mother, and maybe I'm repressing a desire to marry him.I love it when you talk dirty like that Paulie.Football fans are fickle, Villa fans included. In much the same way almost every football fan in the world is a hypocrite to some degree, almost ever football fan is biased to some degree and most of those who try to claim they aren't actually end up going too far the other way and being overly harsh with their own team/players.Are match threads included?
Personally I find the outrage that people in the game might know any of this, and sometimes talk about it or be affected by it, as far more annoying, you're a fucking Villa fan, it's perfectly ok to be irrational about Villa and Villa players but don't throw a fucking fit if someone points it out.
Yep, especially the bit about people throwing a fit if someone mentions people being irrational on there, it's almost like I wrote that with you in mind.
Freudian?
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 13, 2023, 05:50:50 PM
I think he'll score at least one goal.
Post by: Pete3206 on October 13, 2023, 06:07:17 PM
That would be interesting.
Post by: Dave on October 13, 2023, 06:47:13 PM
Grealish, Watkins, Bowen?
That would be interesting.
That's what you've got. Those three plus Maddison.
Post by: AV84 on October 13, 2023, 06:49:48 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 13, 2023, 07:28:59 PM
Post by: Didier Five on October 13, 2023, 07:32:47 PM
Post by: Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle on October 13, 2023, 07:34:27 PM
Post by: mrfuse on October 13, 2023, 07:37:11 PM
In fact I think Watkins will get a hat trick!or a bad injury.
Post by: VillaTim on October 13, 2023, 07:37:46 PM
Post by: DB on October 13, 2023, 07:41:32 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on October 13, 2023, 07:45:05 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 13, 2023, 07:49:49 PM
In fact I think Watkins will get a hat trick!
or a bad injury.
Don't tempt fate, he's already got a whack on the head inside 30 seconds.
Post by: mrfuse on October 13, 2023, 08:16:43 PM
In fact I think Watkins will get a hat trick!or a bad injury.
or hit the post.
Post by: VillaTim on October 13, 2023, 08:23:16 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 13, 2023, 08:37:56 PM
He's been one of the better players for England.
And came most close to scoring.
Post by: dorsetvillian on October 13, 2023, 08:39:26 PM
Post by: VillaTim on October 13, 2023, 08:41:38 PM
His movement off the ball is excellent though. Several times the pass has been delayed. Shame he hit the post.Shame ? It's poor finishing
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 13, 2023, 08:45:14 PM
His movement off the ball is excellent though. Several times the pass has been delayed. Shame he hit the post.Shame ? It's poor finishing
He doesn't have Kanes finishing level but he probably has better movement than Kane off the ball with his runs and is an option for players to give it long to him unlike Kane who has little pace.
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 13, 2023, 08:53:49 PM
Better movement than Kane?His movement off the ball is excellent though. Several times the pass has been delayed. Shame he hit the post.Shame ? It's poor finishing
He doesn't have Kanes finishing level but he probably has better movement than Kane off the ball with his runs and is an option for players to give it long to him unlike Kane who has little pace.
Rubbish
Post by: mrfuse on October 13, 2023, 09:07:55 PM
I agree to an extent.Better movement than Kane?His movement off the ball is excellent though. Several times the pass has been delayed. Shame he hit the post.Shame ? It's poor finishing
He doesn't have Kanes finishing level but he probably has better movement than Kane off the ball with his runs and is an option for players to give it long to him unlike Kane who has little pace.
Rubbish
He has a better work rate than Kane which involves more movement outside the box, but not as good as Kane for movement in the box.
Post by: Exeter 77 on October 13, 2023, 09:09:51 PM
Post by: Nev on October 13, 2023, 09:11:01 PM
The goal he just scored reminded me of Ian Ormondroyd's goal at Derby in March 1990. Cascarino's debut.
Fuck me it was hot that day.
Post by: Beard82 on October 13, 2023, 09:25:41 PM
So, basically he moves more than Kane?I agree to an extent.Better movement than Kane?His movement off the ball is excellent though. Several times the pass has been delayed. Shame he hit the post.Shame ? It's poor finishing
He doesn't have Kanes finishing level but he probably has better movement than Kane off the ball with his runs and is an option for players to give it long to him unlike Kane who has little pace.
Rubbish
He has a better work rate than Kane which involves more movement outside the box, but not as good as Kane for movement in the box.
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 13, 2023, 09:28:40 PM
which is not the same as having better movement which he doesn’t .So, basically he moves more than Kane?I agree to an extent.Better movement than Kane?His movement off the ball is excellent though. Several times the pass has been delayed. Shame he hit the post.Shame ? It's poor finishing
He doesn't have Kanes finishing level but he probably has better movement than Kane off the ball with his runs and is an option for players to give it long to him unlike Kane who has little pace.
Rubbish
He has a better work rate than Kane which involves more movement outside the box, but not as good as Kane for movement in the box.
Kane is world class for finding space in the box and link up play.
Watkins will run the channels but that is not better movement.
Post by: VillaTim on October 13, 2023, 09:30:39 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 13, 2023, 09:30:42 PM
Post by: Hillbilly on October 13, 2023, 10:10:45 PM
Australian soccer cliche bingo!In fact I think Watkins will get a hat trick!or a bad injury.
I hope not !
Australia aren't up to much as footballing nation in the men's game are they.
The league is lower level standard and they don't take football as serious a other sports.
Really the English should win comfortably.
And Watkins should have the beating of the defence.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 14, 2023, 01:50:29 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 14, 2023, 04:10:13 AM
It's not just us. https://twitter.com/paddypower/status/1712923392695746938Love ❤️ that.
Post by: brontebilly on October 14, 2023, 10:34:11 AM
Post by: Axl Rose on October 14, 2023, 10:49:41 AM
He should be nowhere near the England team. Doesn't play for his club team, when he does he's rubbish. ******
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 14, 2023, 10:59:16 AM
I think for he's a better all round player than Rashford, Wilson, Eddie Nketiah, Toney, Calvert -Lewin, Ings.
Post by: VillaTim on October 14, 2023, 11:31:54 AM
Post by: Dave on October 14, 2023, 11:44:14 AM
Watkins might as well come home now as he won't get a sniff v Italy when the A team play the proper game
That's not really how an international squad works.
Post by: Pete3206 on October 14, 2023, 11:48:17 AM
Post by: Ian. on October 14, 2023, 11:51:00 AM
The face on Grealish after Ollie tapped that in, priceless 😀. Good for Ollie to be on the scoresheet anyway.
Ha ha! Me and my wife just said that. His face was priceless! Ollie also looked a little scared too for a minute.
Well done Ollie Watkins, he played well and was a menace, really pleased for him.
Post by: brontebilly on October 14, 2023, 12:00:58 PM
Yes, the oily tosspiece ******
He should be nowhere near the England team. Doesn't play for his club team, when he does he's rubbish. ******
He started pretty slow last season but was a key player for them by the end of the season. Seems to be running in treacle whenever I've seen him this season and refusing to take defenders on. Unfortunately Grealish most likely will kick into form at some point. Not the same player he was with us either way. Rashford has been brutal, Sterling looks finished so not many of the competition standing out either.
For Watkins, realistically the role up for grabs is Kane's backup competing with likes of Wilson. It's a tight call there, Wilson definitely a better finisher but Watkins more resilient.
Post by: Dave on October 14, 2023, 12:13:04 PM
Yes, the oily tosspiece ******
He should be nowhere near the England team. Doesn't play for his club team, when he does he's rubbish. ******
He started pretty slow last season but was a key player for them by the end of the season. Seems to be running in treacle whenever I've seen him this season and refusing to take defenders on. Unfortunately Grealish most likely will kick into form at some point. Not the same player he was with us either way. Rashford has been brutal, Sterling looks finished so not many of the competition standing out either.
For Watkins, realistically the role up for grabs is Kane's backup competing with likes of Wilson. It's a tight call there, Wilson definitely a better finisher but Watkins more resilient.
I'd argue there's probably room for more than two proper strikers and that each of Wilson and Watkins might be useful in different situations. You'd also think that Toney coming back could easily have a strong second half to the season, or someone else might have an Watkins '23 end to this season.
Post by: danno on October 14, 2023, 12:57:15 PM
The face on Grealish after Ollie tapped that in, priceless 😀. Good for Ollie to be on the scoresheet anyway.
Think it was shock, he spends most of his time at Man City passing inside to De Bruyne or Silva. Him actually doing something that resulted in a goal must have felt alien to him.
And his shot was going wide anyway.
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 14, 2023, 09:09:33 PM
Post by: Dave on October 14, 2023, 09:13:02 PM
Should Watkins and Kane both start?
Neither Watkins nor Kane play in a system with another striker.
So the question is basically "should Watkins be played out of position just to accommodate someone who plays there all the time, presumably well enough to play for England?"
So, no.
Post by: Pete3206 on October 14, 2023, 09:55:48 PM
Should Watkins and Kane both start?
No.
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 15, 2023, 07:11:20 PM
Are they mental. Just signed a 5 year deal so they would be expecting to pay £100+ tossers
Post by: dcdavecollett on October 15, 2023, 08:16:35 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 15, 2023, 08:25:22 PM
Should Watkins and Kane both start?No.
Kane starts. Watkins sub,
Post by: paul_e on October 15, 2023, 08:27:34 PM
Should Watkins and Kane both start?No.
Kane starts. Watkins sub,
I agree but I'd be looking at giving Watkins as long as possible. We can't keep giving Kane all the game time in competitive matches and then moaning about inexperienced backup for him.
Post by: Rigadon on October 16, 2023, 08:46:23 AM
That news now shite has Arsenal linked with a "swoop" for Ollie in Jan.
Are they mental. Just signed a 5 year deal so they would be expecting to pay £100+ tossers
Hmm, that one seems likely...
As far as rumours go, this one on the BBC site made me laugh:
"Manchester United are in no rush to sell Scotland midfielder Scott McTominay, 26, but would consider a deal if the price was right." (90min)
I mean, that's not even a rumour.
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 16, 2023, 10:06:22 AM
£100? What a bargain!!is that the release clause amount?
Post by: dcdavecollett on October 17, 2023, 12:55:26 AM
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 17, 2023, 08:50:43 AM
Since Emery arrived he's top in goals/assists by English players in the PL.Watkins has also set a target of 20 goals this season and it is a sign of his form over the past year that it almost sounds unambitious. But if he keeps delivering for Emery on the pitch, slowly but surely, the recognition will come his way.
In 2023 he's 3rd in goals/assists in the PL behind Haaland and Salah.
This season he's 3rd in goals/assists in the PL behind Haaland and Salah.
“I'm confident I'm gonna get to that number, and then I think people start talking and you get put into a bracket of the top players"
Post by: wolfman999 on October 17, 2023, 09:38:15 AM
Post by: AV84 on October 17, 2023, 09:49:21 AM
I see the signing of a new contract still hasn't killed the ridiculous stories of Ollie being desperate to go to Arsenal. The quote about dreaming of playing for them comes from when he was playing for Brentford in the Championship years ago but still this crap is dug up and re-circulated.
To be fair, signing a new contract doesn't mean a lot these days. Didn't Caceido sign one at Brighton after not moving in January?
Post by: LeeB on October 17, 2023, 09:53:43 AM
I see the signing of a new contract still hasn't killed the ridiculous stories of Ollie being desperate to go to Arsenal. The quote about dreaming of playing for them comes from when he was playing for Brentford in the Championship years ago but still this crap is dug up and re-circulated.
To be fair, signing a new contract doesn't mean a lot these days. Didn't Caceido sign one at Brighton after not moving in January?
But that's Brighton, whose whole thing is 'selling players for lots of money to mug clubs'.
Post by: Dave on October 17, 2023, 09:54:04 AM
I see the signing of a new contract still hasn't killed the ridiculous stories of Ollie being desperate to go to Arsenal. The quote about dreaming of playing for them comes from when he was playing for Brentford in the Championship years ago but still this crap is dug up and re-circulated.
To be fair, signing a new contract doesn't mean a lot these days. Didn't Caceido sign one at Brighton after not moving in January?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8NgPhFCQAAMADO?format=png)
Post by: AV84 on October 17, 2023, 09:56:40 AM
I see the signing of a new contract still hasn't killed the ridiculous stories of Ollie being desperate to go to Arsenal. The quote about dreaming of playing for them comes from when he was playing for Brentford in the Championship years ago but still this crap is dug up and re-circulated.
To be fair, signing a new contract doesn't mean a lot these days. Didn't Caceido sign one at Brighton after not moving in January?
But that's Brighton, whose whole thing is 'selling players for lots of money to mug clubs'.
It could be our thing too. I don't want to sell Watkins but if someone is dumb enough to offer over 130mil for him, I'd take it.
Post by: LeeB on October 17, 2023, 10:00:51 AM
I see the signing of a new contract still hasn't killed the ridiculous stories of Ollie being desperate to go to Arsenal. The quote about dreaming of playing for them comes from when he was playing for Brentford in the Championship years ago but still this crap is dug up and re-circulated.
To be fair, signing a new contract doesn't mean a lot these days. Didn't Caceido sign one at Brighton after not moving in January?
But that's Brighton, whose whole thing is 'selling players for lots of money to mug clubs'.
It could be our thing too. I don't want to sell Watkins but if someone is dumb enough to offer over 130mil for him, I'd take it.
They won't though, not as his age now, unless he suddenly started turning in figures like Harry Kane. Plus then we'd just have to spend it (and probably more) in an effort to replace him.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 17, 2023, 10:00:55 AM
I see the signing of a new contract still hasn't killed the ridiculous stories of Ollie being desperate to go to Arsenal. The quote about dreaming of playing for them comes from when he was playing for Brentford in the Championship years ago but still this crap is dug up and re-circulated.
To be fair, signing a new contract doesn't mean a lot these days. Didn't Caceido sign one at Brighton after not moving in January?
But that's Brighton, whose whole thing is 'selling players for lots of money to mug clubs'.
Also, of course, the other side of the coin re signing a new contract is whether it came with a release clause inserted (as per Grealish).
Post by: maidstonevillain on October 17, 2023, 10:05:46 AM
I see the signing of a new contract still hasn't killed the ridiculous stories of Ollie being desperate to go to Arsenal. The quote about dreaming of playing for them comes from when he was playing for Brentford in the Championship years ago but still this crap is dug up and re-circulated.
To be fair, signing a new contract doesn't mean a lot these days. Didn't Caceido sign one at Brighton after not moving in January?
But that's Brighton, whose whole thing is 'selling players for lots of money to mug clubs'.
It could be our thing too. I don't want to sell Watkins but if someone is dumb enough to offer over 130mil for him, I'd take it.
So would I. And give them £60m change.
Post by: LeeB on October 17, 2023, 10:08:30 AM
I see the signing of a new contract still hasn't killed the ridiculous stories of Ollie being desperate to go to Arsenal. The quote about dreaming of playing for them comes from when he was playing for Brentford in the Championship years ago but still this crap is dug up and re-circulated.
To be fair, signing a new contract doesn't mean a lot these days. Didn't Caceido sign one at Brighton after not moving in January?
But that's Brighton, whose whole thing is 'selling players for lots of money to mug clubs'.
Also, of course, the other side of the coin re signing a new contract is whether it came with a release clause inserted (as per Grealish).
I reckon those only go in when you're relatively weak as piss as a club, having just scraped past relegation (in the case you mention, snake II) or on the verge of it (as per snake I).
I may be being naive, but I don't see that happening now.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 17, 2023, 10:09:38 AM
I see the signing of a new contract still hasn't killed the ridiculous stories of Ollie being desperate to go to Arsenal. The quote about dreaming of playing for them comes from when he was playing for Brentford in the Championship years ago but still this crap is dug up and re-circulated.
To be fair, signing a new contract doesn't mean a lot these days. Didn't Caceido sign one at Brighton after not moving in January?
But that's Brighton, whose whole thing is 'selling players for lots of money to mug clubs'.
Also, of course, the other side of the coin re signing a new contract is whether it came with a release clause inserted (as per Grealish).
I reckon those only go in when you're relatively weak as piss as a club, having just scraped past relegation (in the case you mention, snake II) or on the verge of it (as per snake I).
I may be being naive, but I don't see that happening now.
I know what you mean, but I think it's still a risk for clubs like us, who aspire to get into the Champions League, when faced with interest from clubs with an annual pass into it.
Tangent but I love that clip the Villa Podcast play of Purslow's address to fans following Grealish's exit, the one which follows with the audio from the King of The Sheep episode of Father Ted, with what is clearly the voice of Graham Linehan* saying "fucking hell" at the end.
The funnest "fucking hell" ever.
* obviously I, like all right minded, free thinking but respectful members of the middle class intelligentsia have in recent times cancelled Mr Linehan, and this post should be in no way considered an expression of support for his worse-than-Hitler views.
Post by: LeeB on October 17, 2023, 10:15:04 AM
Post by: Dave on October 17, 2023, 10:31:56 AM
I reckon that may be the case if you're looking at a player like Diaby (not saying it is at all in this case), a player in his early 20's who's already established and played at that level who you're looking to convince to come, but I don't see us giving one to someone already here on a contract renewal. In the case of both of the previous cases they were also both (Benteke excepted) far and away better than the teammates they were expected to play with, which is not the case for Ollie.
On the other hand, as long as we set it as a level that we felt benefitted us - what's the issue if the player wants it?
If he says he wants a release clause of £100m, then fine - let's look forward to what he is going to need to do on the pitch to make someone want to pay it. I don't think we'd be selling Watkins for £100m whether there is a release clause for that amount or not.
Post by: LeeB on October 17, 2023, 10:36:58 AM
I mean, I think we got more for Grealish in th end because of it, but that was thanks to good timing and his exceptional form.
Post by: Dave on October 17, 2023, 10:48:01 AM
I can see that Dave, but you're always hostage to fortune and what looks ridiculous what minute in football becomes the going rate as soon as someone pays over the odds.
True
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 17, 2023, 10:54:24 AM
It would be something regards progression maybe have to be in Champions League or only a Champions League club can sign him for the release fee.
I believe the media coverage as Watkins and Arsenal connection has been continuing for a while. It's his success at international level now that is making it prominent and it's quite disrespectful to Aston Villa football club but this is what happens isn't it?!
The only way he could go at the conclusion of the season would be if stipulations were not met. Maybe its about qualifying for the Champions League, if that's the agreement, and it would have to be the release clause being met.
At the end of the day, he's a significant asset, so he's not going for a bargain fee, and with Villa on the rise, I hope he remains.
The difficulty is that the more successful he is and the more international attention he receives, the more rumour will be unless we are top 4.
Emery is building to compete, so we will try our hardest and we can't simply sell our best players if we want to compete at the top table.
We are not the same as Brighton and Hove Albion.
That's just how I see it and summise.
Post by: Exeter 77 on October 17, 2023, 10:59:53 AM
Post by: Rigadon on October 17, 2023, 11:10:30 AM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 22, 2023, 06:34:51 PM
Post by: brontebilly on October 22, 2023, 06:43:02 PM
Post by: Smirker on October 22, 2023, 07:13:26 PM
Even today he missed a sitter.
There are very valid criticisms of his game.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 22, 2023, 07:23:43 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 22, 2023, 07:26:22 PM
It's not based on stats though it's based on watching him play.
Even today he missed a sitter.
There are very valid criticisms of his game.
There are no faultless players - you can criticise him if you want, I prefer to look at all the goals he’s scoring, assists he’s providing, and the amount he does for the team.
Post by: danno on October 22, 2023, 07:26:54 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 22, 2023, 07:31:39 PM
Some finish for his goal today and at a crucial stage in the game.
Indeed or put another way, who on here thought he was going to thunderfuck the ball on the near post for his goal? I know for a fact I didn't. He's far from a top footballer but give him a ball to chase and there's few better.
Post by: AV82EC on October 22, 2023, 07:32:06 PM
Post by: Smithy on October 22, 2023, 07:33:09 PM
Every player misses sitters. Even though it's another game with a goal and assist you criticise him rather than praise him? This season only Salah has more g/a than him. In 2023 only Salah and Haaland do. He's incredibly effective for us, one of the top performing strikers in the country and is a massive part of why we're one of the best sides in the country for nearly a year now, and nearly every side in the country would give their left bollock to have him.
I know there are people on here who hate stats with a passion, but 'expected goals' is a really good way of telling whether a player misses a lot of sitters. If their expected goals is much higher than actual goals, then yes, they miss sitters.
So far this season Ollie has 0.13 more goals than expected (five goals vs xG of 4.87). Those aren't the stats of a man who misses a lot of 'sitters'.
For reference, Haaland has 0.14 more goals than expected, and Salah has 0.02 more goals than expected. So he's right in the ball-park with his peers.
Post by: AV84 on October 22, 2023, 07:35:55 PM
Only Mohamed Salah (35) and Erling Haaland (33) have contributed to more goals in this time.
Post by: Smirker on October 22, 2023, 07:37:34 PM
Every player misses sitters. Even though it's another game with a goal and assist you criticise him rather than praise him? This season only Salah has more g/a than him. In 2023 only Salah and Haaland do. He's incredibly effective for us, one of the top performing strikers in the country and is a massive part of why we're one of the best sides in the country for nearly a year now, and nearly every side in the country would give their left bollock to have him.
Its not me criticising him just defending those who do have criticisms.
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 22, 2023, 07:42:13 PM
Wouldn't swap him for any striker in the league!
Steps closer to his 20 goal target today.
Shame he doesn't take pens and didn't bury his chance in first half but wow what a goal.
Great to see him and Deano talking after the game . The respect he has for Smith is a delight to see.
Post by: paul_e on October 22, 2023, 08:39:12 PM
Every player misses sitters. Even though it's another game with a goal and assist you criticise him rather than praise him? This season only Salah has more g/a than him. In 2023 only Salah and Haaland do. He's incredibly effective for us, one of the top performing strikers in the country and is a massive part of why we're one of the best sides in the country for nearly a year now, and nearly every side in the country would give their left bollock to have him.
I know there are people on here who hate stats with a passion, but 'expected goals' is a really good way of telling whether a player misses a lot of sitters. If their expected goals is much higher than actual goals, then yes, they miss sitters.
So far this season Ollie has 0.13 more goals than expected (five goals vs xG of 4.87). Those aren't the stats of a man who misses a lot of 'sitters'.
For reference, Haaland has 0.14 more goals than expected, and Salah has 0.02 more goals than expected. So he's right in the ball-park with his peers.
For more context, and to use the stat in a way that is much more useful, they rated his missed chance as 0.49 so across the entire database xG is based on that chance is scored less than half of the time (just). This isn't trying to say it was a difficult chance (it was our best other than the penalty) but that we as fans have a habit of overstimating how easy chances are. Xg is most useful in trying to work out how good (or bad) an individual chance really is.
Post by: LeeB on October 22, 2023, 08:42:11 PM
Every player misses sitters. Even though it's another game with a goal and assist you criticise him rather than praise him? This season only Salah has more g/a than him. In 2023 only Salah and Haaland do. He's incredibly effective for us, one of the top performing strikers in the country and is a massive part of why we're one of the best sides in the country for nearly a year now, and nearly every side in the country would give their left bollock to have him.
Its not me criticising him just defending those who do have criticisms.
Don't go into bat for people like that, they're twats.
Post by: Somniloquism on October 22, 2023, 08:52:05 PM
Post by: RamboandBruno on October 22, 2023, 09:02:47 PM
Some finish for his goal today and at a crucial stage in the game.
Indeed or put another way, who on here thought he was going to thunderfuck the ball on the near post for his goal? I know for a fact I didn't. He's far from a top footballer but give him a ball to chase and there's few better.
He’s the main striker for a team challenging for the top four in one of the top league in the world, his goals and assists are behind only Salah and Haaland, considered two of the best players in the world.
Ollie Watkins is a top footballer and not just a ball chaser.
Post by: Olneythelonely on October 22, 2023, 10:32:41 PM
Some finish for his goal today and at a crucial stage in the game.
Indeed or put another way, who on here thought he was going to thunderfuck the ball on the near post for his goal? I know for a fact I didn't. He's far from a top footballer but give him a ball to chase and there's few better.
He’s not far from a top footballer. He’s brilliant.
Post by: Dave on October 22, 2023, 10:48:38 PM
Some finish for his goal today and at a crucial stage in the game.
Indeed or put another way, who on here thought he was going to thunderfuck the ball on the near post for his goal? I know for a fact I didn't. He's far from a top footballer but give him a ball to chase and there's few better.
He’s not far from a top footballer. He’s brilliant.
If he's "far from a top footballer", the criteria being used means there are probably no more than about four "top footballers" on the planet.
Post by: Steve67 on October 22, 2023, 10:54:33 PM
Post by: AV84 on October 22, 2023, 10:54:37 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 22, 2023, 11:02:17 PM
Post by: DrGonzo on October 22, 2023, 11:02:25 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 22, 2023, 11:22:44 PM
The Highest in league! The best in the league.
Post by: tomd2103 on October 22, 2023, 11:30:53 PM
Watkins and Diaby chances created for each other combined : 17.
The Highest in league! The best in the league.
Just seen that on MOTD2. They are quite a way ahead of the others as well.with next best being 11.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 22, 2023, 11:34:19 PM
Watkins and Diaby chances created for each other combined : 17.
The Highest in league! The best in the league.
Just seen that on MOTD2. They are quite a way ahead of the others as well.with next best being 11.
Yeah, that was quiet a surprising stat given the feeling seems to be that Diary has had a few quiet games,
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 23, 2023, 01:07:44 AM
Most PL goal contributions
1: Salah
2: Haaland
3: Watkins
Post by: LeonW on October 23, 2023, 03:29:12 AM
Post by: Caribbeanvillan on October 23, 2023, 03:31:31 AM
Post by: dave shelley on October 23, 2023, 08:24:14 AM
Watkins and Diaby chances created for each other combined : 17.
The Highest in league! The best in the league.
Just seen that on MOTD2. They are quite a way ahead of the others as well.with next best being 11.
Yeah, that was quiet a surprising stat given the feeling seems to be that Diary has had a few quiet games,
I'll have to have a Pepys at that later.
Post by: chrisw1 on October 23, 2023, 08:32:50 AM
I was pretty negative about Ollie 12-18 months ago, but he is playing superbly at the moment. I think anyone who can't see that must have a pretty huge blind spot.
Post by: Drummond on October 23, 2023, 09:35:16 AM
Post by: darren woolley on October 23, 2023, 09:43:27 AM
Ollie was superb yesterday. Some fantastic touches and his finish was sublime.
I totally agree.
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 23, 2023, 09:47:49 AM
Watkins said in an interview after the match he's worked on things in that respect and you could see in his descriptive language he was showing understanding.
This student is excelling under Emery the professor.
Post by: LeeB on October 23, 2023, 10:13:48 AM
Ollie was superb yesterday. Some fantastic touches and his finish was sublime.
I totally agree.
There was a touch around the corner into Bailey's path late on that was so delightful it bought 'oohs' and 'aahhs' and I think a lady fainted.
Post by: AV82EC on October 23, 2023, 10:48:28 AM
Ollie was superb yesterday. Some fantastic touches and his finish was sublime.
I totally agree.
There was a touch around the corner into Bailey's path late on that was so delightful it bought 'oohs' and 'aahhs' and I think a lady fainted.
That was wonderful, I haven’t heard an ooh like that in an age.
Post by: Risso on October 23, 2023, 10:51:49 AM
Watkins has rightly deserved criticism in the past for his finishing. But he is playing very, very well now. People are over-sensitised to his misses now, so a bit like a Mings error, every miss gets blown out of proportion. Watch Haaland and Salah - they both miss chances too.
I was pretty negative about Ollie 12-18 months ago, but he is playing superbly at the moment. I think anyone who can't see that must have a pretty huge blind spot.
Sorry, but the miss early on was absolutely criminal, one of the worst you'll see. He more than made up for it with his overall great play and subsequent goal mind, but in tighter (mainly away) games where chances won't be so easy to come by, he's got to be converting those.
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 23, 2023, 10:52:43 AM
Ollie was superb yesterday. Some fantastic touches and his finish was sublime.
I totally agree.
There was a touch around the corner into Bailey's path late on that was so delightful it bought 'oohs' and 'aahhs' and I think a lady fainted.
That tickled me
Post by: maidstonevillain on October 23, 2023, 10:56:27 AM
Ollie was superb yesterday. Some fantastic touches and his finish was sublime.
I totally agree.
There was a touch around the corner into Bailey's path late on that was so delightful it bought 'oohs' and 'aahhs' and I think a lady fainted.
It was "Withesque" I thought.
Post by: Olneythelonely on October 23, 2023, 11:02:54 AM
He doesn’t need to score every chance, not many do. If he keeps giving us performances like that, he’ll continue to be one of the biggest reasons we keep winning football matches.
Post by: Somniloquism on October 23, 2023, 11:16:42 AM
Sorry, but the miss early on was absolutely criminal, one of the worst you'll see. He more than made up for it with his overall great play and subsequent goal mind, but in tighter (mainly away) games where chances won't be so easy to come by, he's got to be converting those.
paquetta said "hold my beer".
So does Haaland (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPF7p9pyzJU).
Post by: Gareth on October 23, 2023, 11:17:15 AM
Post by: paul_e on October 23, 2023, 11:45:57 AM
Quote
Anon: If anything was to happen to Harry Kane before the Euros is Ollie Watkins a natural replacement? He seems to score goals for fun with Villa but never seems to replicate it for England.
I think this is probably something England manager Gareth Southgate does not even want to think about but I do still think Ollie Watkins has to prove he is good enough at international level.
He is, however, a very fine player and is doing his chances no harm – still a bit to prove for England, though. His winner in the friendly against Australia should lift his confidence.
For context Watkins has 3 in 8 and 4 of those were less than 10minutes and there are only 2 starts. This is the biggest problem I have with Southgate. Behind Kane we have Watkins, Wilson, Toney and (unbelievably) Nketiah but he doesn't trust any of them to play in important games so they all look inexperienced and have question marks over them. The only way to fix this is to give 1 or 2 of them some fucking gametime in games that actually matter.
Post by: pablo_picasso on October 23, 2023, 12:11:48 PM
It's not based on stats though it's based on watching him play.
Even today he missed a sitter.
There are very valid criticisms of his game.
There are no faultless players - you can criticise him if you want, I prefer to look at all the goals he’s scoring, assists he’s providing, and the amount he does for the team.
As someone who has criticised areas of his game, (while highlight & praising the positives too), I will defend my right to hold those concerns.
Those concerns are not the overriding feeling currently, because he is performing to a very high standard.
So while he is still missing a sitter or two, the goals & assists are wracking up & he is currently having a "feast" period for his historical form.
Long may that continue because nobody would love my critical words rammed back down my throat, than I would, when it benefits Villa.
And I want to just add, I only mentioned my critical thoughts here because I don't want to just show up when I feel I am right.
His performance yesterday was fantastic & that should be celebrated... 👍
Post by: Gareth on October 23, 2023, 12:12:02 PM
Post by: pablo_picasso on October 23, 2023, 12:22:59 PM
BBC have a live Q&A thing with Phil McNulty going on and 1 question on there is this:QuoteAnon: If anything was to happen to Harry Kane before the Euros is Ollie Watkins a natural replacement? He seems to score goals for fun with Villa but never seems to replicate it for England.
I think this is probably something England manager Gareth Southgate does not even want to think about but I do still think Ollie Watkins has to prove he is good enough at international level.
He is, however, a very fine player and is doing his chances no harm – still a bit to prove for England, though. His winner in the friendly against Australia should lift his confidence.
For context Watkins has 3 in 8 and 4 of those were less than 10minutes and there are only 2 starts. This is the biggest problem I have with Southgate. Behind Kane we have Watkins, Wilson, Toney and (unbelievably) Nketiah but he doesn't trust any of them to play in important games so they all look inexperienced and have question marks over them. The only way to fix this is to give 1 or 2 of them some fucking gametime in games that actually matter.
One, Phil McNulty is an absolute bellend. Anyone remember his "return to the dark days" because we celebrated a cup win by running onto the pitch. And while a bit of an overreaction by some our fans, nowhere near as much of an overreaction by McNulty, who has previously praised the fans of some clubs who have celebrated a cup win by running onto the pitch. Twat.
Two, how can Ollie Watkins, or any other player not a Southgate favourite, "prove themselves at international level", if the bellend in charge & his cronies in the media, say that they don't have enough experience to challenge the first choice favourites. Isn't that just the type of catch 22 that pricks like Southgate love in order to continue picking his favourites?
Post by: LeeB on October 23, 2023, 12:23:06 PM
Particularly after he’s indulged Kane to get to the record, give the other guys proper chances to play…plenty of qualifiers etc we could have started Toney / Ollie etc and brought Kane on
Given we walk through most of the group games you'd think so.
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 23, 2023, 12:28:16 PM
Post by: Gareth on October 23, 2023, 12:42:48 PM
Post by: paul_e on October 23, 2023, 01:27:34 PM
Don’t think anyone has suggested he or any of the others are Kanes level but he’ll never know who his back up is if Kane gets crocked week before Euros if he doesn’t test them.
Exactly, we've relied on Kane for a long time now and Southgate done nothing to mitigate the risk of him being unavailable. The 4 obvious backup options have bene given scraps spread thinly over years and then get questioned on why they haven't done more and whether they can be relied on. That's all on Southgate and he's creating similar issues in defence and midfield but there it's more desperate because Maguire, Henderson and Phillips are starting to let us down but he's got no options to repalce them with experience because he's just stuck with them game after game and will need to pretty much start from scratch to replace them.
Post by: LeeB on October 23, 2023, 02:12:02 PM
Post by: rob_bridge on October 23, 2023, 02:13:59 PM
Post by: Risso on October 23, 2023, 02:17:34 PM
Exactly, we've relied on Kane for a long time now and Southgate done nothing to mitigate the risk of him being unavailable.
Although you could make a very similar argument for us with Watkins.
Post by: paul_e on October 23, 2023, 03:24:17 PM
Exactly, we've relied on Kane for a long time now and Southgate done nothing to mitigate the risk of him being unavailable.
Although you could make a very similar argument for us with Watkins.
and many people have, many times. Can't really compare us choosing not to commit fees and wages to England just not bothering to give the backups any gametime.
Calvert-Lewin when fit is Kane understudy. Watkins probably next now.
Please tell me you're joking and don't seriously think a guy who's barely been fit for 2 years is a viable option. Even ignoring that he's just another one who proves the problem ~400minutes across 11 appearances, mostly as a sub.
Post by: Somniloquism on October 23, 2023, 03:30:16 PM
Calvert-Lewin when fit is Kane understudy. Watkins probably next now.
Nah Wilson* would be my pick for direct understudy as his finishing is better then Watkins. Watkins brings more to the play though but probably needs to ensure the midfielders are on the same wavelength (Grealish used to be). And obviously someone would need to be picked to take the Pens in Kane's absence.
*However he is as injury prone as Calvert-Lewin.
Post by: rob_bridge on October 23, 2023, 03:45:25 PM
Calvert-Lewin when fit is Kane understudy. Watkins probably next now.
Nah Wilson* would be my pick for direct understudy as his finishing is better then Watkins. Watkins brings more to the play though but probably needs to ensure the midfielders are on the same wavelength (Grealish used to be). And obviously someone would need to be picked to take the Pens in Kane's absence.
*However he is as injury prone as Calvert-Lewin.
Kane is a lot more than just a finisher, which is also extrordianrily good. Depends on situation.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 23, 2023, 04:04:01 PM
Some finish for his goal today and at a crucial stage in the game.
Indeed or put another way, who on here thought he was going to thunderfuck the ball on the near post for his goal? I know for a fact I didn't. He's far from a top footballer but give him a ball to chase and there's few better.
He’s the main striker for a team challenging for the top four in one of the top league in the world, his goals and assists are behind only Salah and Haaland, considered two of the best players in the world.
Ollie Watkins is a top footballer and not just a ball chaser.
What I meant was technically he's not a top player, it's still his biggest weakness though it is showing some signs of improving. Give him a ball to chase like McGinn did yesterday, a beautiful though ball and Watkins thrives on it. It's playing to his strengths, his speed, running with the ball on goal and his determination to have a shot, there are few better.
Emery obviously realises his strengths and we are set out to maximise them. Having Diaby next to him gives defenders somebody else to worry about. It's potentially a fantastic partnership. Andy Gray was never a technical player but alongside Brian Little scored for fun because we played to his strengths. First time round Gray scored 54 goals in 113 appearances whilst Sir Brian got 40 during the same period. Together they were the best Villa partnership of my Villa days. In Watkins and Diaby were have the potential to have the third best - after Gray/Little and Withe/Shaw.
Post by: LeeB on October 23, 2023, 04:05:42 PM
Post by: Risso on October 23, 2023, 04:12:03 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 23, 2023, 05:37:30 PM
To me he is already in 1st place.
5 goals and 5 assist this season is some going.
So are we saying he has to get 20+ Premier League Goals?
25 or 30? Or more?
What numbers are people saying for him to be the number one in the Prem and number 2 to Kane.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 23, 2023, 05:50:10 PM
As an aside Doug is now 20th on the list.
Post by: Mister E on October 23, 2023, 06:00:59 PM
Emery obviously realises his strengths and we are set out to maximise them. Having Diaby next to him gives defenders somebody else to worry about. It's potentially a fantastic partnership. Andy Gray was never a technical player but alongside Brian Little scored for fun because we played to his strengths. First time round Gray scored 54 goals in 113 appearances whilst Sir Brian got 40 during the same period. Together they were the best Villa partnership of my Villa days. In Watkins and Diaby were have the potential to have the third best - after Gray/Little and Withe/Shaw.Totally.
Post by: Dave on October 23, 2023, 07:40:57 PM
As an aside Doug is now 20th on the list.
That's in one way very impressive, and in another way pretty embarrassing.
That someone, who until a few weeks ago would have been seen as a 2-3 goal per season man is now our twentieth highest scorer in the last thirty years.
Talk about wasted opportunities.
Post by: LeeB on October 23, 2023, 07:45:39 PM
Post by: RamboandBruno on October 23, 2023, 09:03:08 PM
Some finish for his goal today and at a crucial stage in the game.
Indeed or put another way, who on here thought he was going to thunderfuck the ball on the near post for his goal? I know for a fact I didn't. He's far from a top footballer but give him a ball to chase and there's few better.
He’s the main striker for a team challenging for the top four in one of the top league in the world, his goals and assists are behind only Salah and Haaland, considered two of the best players in the world.
Ollie Watkins is a top footballer and not just a ball chaser.
What I meant was technically he's not a top player, it's still his biggest weakness though it is showing some signs of improving. Give him a ball to chase like McGinn did yesterday, a beautiful though ball and Watkins thrives on it. It's playing to his strengths, his speed, running with the ball on goal and his determination to have a shot, there are few better.
Emery obviously realises his strengths and we are set out to maximise them. Having Diaby next to him gives defenders somebody else to worry about. It's potentially a fantastic partnership. Andy Gray was never a technical player but alongside Brian Little scored for fun because we played to his strengths. First time round Gray scored 54 goals in 113 appearances whilst Sir Brian got 40 during the same period. Together they were the best Villa partnership of my Villa days. In Watkins and Diaby were have the potential to have the third best - after Gray/Little and Withe/Shaw.
Thanks for clarifying and some excellent points well made.
Post by: maidstonevillain on October 24, 2023, 10:44:15 AM
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12991466/top-class-ollie-watkins-reflects-on-villa-legend-tony-daley
Post by: Somniloquism on October 24, 2023, 11:18:45 AM
Post by: Drummond on October 24, 2023, 12:03:34 PM
Yeah, especially when you consider the talents of your Rudy Gestedes, your Scott Sinclairs and your Ashley Westwoods.
Eh? They can't hold a candle to Jordan Bowerys, Michael Bouldings and Nicklas Heleniuses....
Post by: Bully2345 on October 24, 2023, 12:11:09 PM
Yeah, especially when you consider the talents of your Rudy Gestedes, your Scott Sinclairs and your Ashley Westwoods.
Eh? They can't hold a candle to Jordan Bowerys, Michael Bouldings and Nicklas Heleniuses....
Bit of a tangent but I noticed Jordan Bowery plays right back for Mansfield when they were on telly the other week. We clearly misused him
Post by: pablo_picasso on October 24, 2023, 12:16:19 PM
As good a place as anywhere to put this.
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12991466/top-class-ollie-watkins-reflects-on-villa-legend-tony-daley
Daley is still one of my favourite Villans of all time... I was gutted when we sold him to Wolves...
Post by: Drummond on October 24, 2023, 12:22:17 PM
As good a place as anywhere to put this.
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12991466/top-class-ollie-watkins-reflects-on-villa-legend-tony-daley
Daley is still one of my favourite Villans of all time... I was gutted when we sold him to Wolves...
Me too.
Post by: john e on October 24, 2023, 01:22:12 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on October 24, 2023, 01:27:56 PM
Post by: baddowvillans on October 24, 2023, 07:08:17 PM
Calvert-Lewin when fit is Kane understudy. Watkins probably next now.
Nah Wilson* would be my pick for direct understudy as his finishing is better then Watkins. Watkins brings more to the play though but probably needs to ensure the midfielders are on the same wavelength (Grealish used to be). And obviously someone would need to be picked to take the Pens in Kane's absence.
*However he is as injury prone as Calvert-Lewin.
Post by: baddowvillans on October 24, 2023, 07:10:36 PM
Post by: AV84 on October 24, 2023, 07:23:01 PM
I meant to ask if Wilson is such a better finisher how come Watkins is the only striker close to Haarland & Salah?
Probably because Isak plays more than him.
If we're talking this season though, Son, Isak, Bowen and Hwang all have more goals than Wilson or Watkins.
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 24, 2023, 07:37:21 PM
Obviously the ones who watch the full matches more can confirm, but has he stopped straying offside as much as he used to as well. I don't remember too many chances / goals ruled out from him this season for that offence.
Only offside 2 times this season.
And Aston Villa have only been offside 8 times all season.
Only Man City 7 with less.
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 26, 2023, 03:24:08 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 26, 2023, 04:10:16 PM
When he started last season with Watkins, Luiz and Mings on the bench Vs Bournemouth!
Shocking.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 26, 2023, 05:16:37 PM
Post by: Risso on October 26, 2023, 05:19:19 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 26, 2023, 05:21:51 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 26, 2023, 07:56:37 PM
I think he's being humble saying 20!
And he's not on pens but can see 20 goals and then some!
Post by: Mister E on October 26, 2023, 08:03:40 PM
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12991466/top-class-ollie-watkins-reflects-on-villa-legend-tony-daleyOllie's read delivery of the 'story' was rather stilted but kudos to him for getting out there, doing it and enhancing his Villa credentials.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on October 26, 2023, 09:11:37 PM
Post by: Drummond on October 26, 2023, 09:33:12 PM
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12991466/top-class-ollie-watkins-reflects-on-villa-legend-tony-daleyOllie's read delivery of the 'story' was rather stilted but kudos to him for getting out there, doing it and enhancing his Villa credentials.
Hmmm, I didn't remember posting that. So I checked, and I didn't post it!
Post by: rob_bridge on October 26, 2023, 09:41:07 PM
10 goals in all comps plus internationals now.
Impressive return before end of October.
Post by: astonvilla82 on October 26, 2023, 09:43:59 PM
10 goals in all comps plus internationals now.signing for the Arsenal in January
Post by: Steve67 on October 26, 2023, 09:54:01 PM
10 goals in all comps plus internationals now.signing for the Arsenal in January
Yes, for £200m.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 26, 2023, 09:54:18 PM
Post by: astonvilla82 on October 26, 2023, 10:35:50 PM
is that a starting bid?10 goals in all comps plus internationals now.signing for the Arsenal in January
Yes, for £200m.
Post by: pablo_picasso on October 27, 2023, 03:04:16 PM
Fair play to the lad.
I hope his form continues & continues to ram my words back down my throat... 👌👍
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 28, 2023, 09:16:10 PM
Ferguson, Jackson ,Vinicius, Calver-Lewin, Wood x2
Watkins will be scoring then but can he get a hat trick?
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 28, 2023, 09:17:45 PM
Post by: paul_e on October 28, 2023, 09:40:41 PM
Post by: john e on October 28, 2023, 11:16:53 PM
yes and maybe. It'll depend how early we score. If the game is similar to Thursday and we get on the board in the first quarter I think it'll be a comfortable win to pad out the GD. If we go into the second half level then it'll be a much more nervy game.
absolutely this,
if we score in the first 20/30 mins we can go on to win comfortably, wasted chances can come back to bite as seen today at Stamford Bridge so its important to score first as early as possible and control the game
Post by: Bobby Boy on November 05, 2023, 06:38:27 PM
He missed a sitter against Luton which in the end didn't matter and another today.
In the end this will matter.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on November 05, 2023, 06:51:08 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 05, 2023, 06:54:30 PM
Ollie works hard no doubt but he misses sitters weeks after week.
He missed a sitter against Luton which in the end didn't matter and another today.
In the end this will matter.
We know, Unai knows, the players must surely know, we have a player when facing goal is one of the best in the business. With his back to goal he's at very best, average. We've bet the farm on him as our only real centre forward. Players need to look for that through ball for Watkins to run on to. Watkins needs to go searching for that ball. Today his movement was poor, gluing himself to their central defender.
Like when Wenger spoke to Henry, Unai needs to have a similar chat with Watkins.
Post by: Risso on November 05, 2023, 07:05:13 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 05, 2023, 08:58:59 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 05, 2023, 09:04:47 PM
We've had three years of him and all in all he's been a fantastic signing. However if people are still amazed he misses reasonably simple chances most games then that's the way it's going to stay.
Post by: VillaTim on November 05, 2023, 09:06:40 PM
Post by: Risso on November 05, 2023, 09:11:58 PM
Post by: brontebilly on November 05, 2023, 09:14:57 PM
Ollie works hard no doubt but he misses sitters weeks after week.
He missed a sitter against Luton which in the end didn't matter and another today.
In the end this will matter.
Every striker, even Haaland, misses sitters. Poor effort for the header aside, I thought Watkins touch was awful today. One of a number of players that were simply miles off it today.
Post by: Somniloquism on November 05, 2023, 09:31:23 PM
* Although officially he has had contributions to 10 this season, you could argue he has probably three or four more with being fouled for Penalties a few times and I think a pass for one that was given as an own goal.
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 05, 2023, 09:35:28 PM
Think he's going to go on another 6 or 7 game barren run again now
Hope not. I'd keep him in v Alkmaar as with the way they defended v pace in the home game he'll get 2-3 relatively simple chances so can get back on the scoresheet quickly.
With Duran on the naughty step seemingly wouldn't it be nice to have a CF in the squad we could be confident of starting instead of just watch Ollie fizzle out for a month and bemoan dropped points as a result of not scoring as happened in the run in last season.
Post by: VillaTim on November 05, 2023, 09:39:10 PM
It's why i was 100% against the sale of Archer. Still think that's a huge error of judgment.Think he's going to go on another 6 or 7 game barren run again now
Hope not. I'd keep him in v Alkmaar as with the way they defended v pace in the home game he'll get 2-3 relatively simple chances so can get back on the scoresheet quickly.
With Duran on the naughty step seemingly wouldn't it be nice to have a CF in the squad we could be confident of starting instead of just watch Ollie fizzle out for a month and bemoan dropped points as a result of not scoring as happened in the run in last season.
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 05, 2023, 09:43:18 PM
Agree.Don’t mention that the idea of Philogene coming on would have also potentially given Forest something different to think about.It's why i was 100% against the sale of Archer. Still think that's a huge error of judgment.Think he's going to go on another 6 or 7 game barren run again now
Hope not. I'd keep him in v Alkmaar as with the way they defended v pace in the home game he'll get 2-3 relatively simple chances so can get back on the scoresheet quickly.
With Duran on the naughty step seemingly wouldn't it be nice to have a CF in the squad we could be confident of starting instead of just watch Ollie fizzle out for a month and bemoan dropped points as a result of not scoring as happened in the run in last season.
Post by: VillaTim on November 05, 2023, 09:46:47 PM
Yep it's a shame they aren't here anymore,Agree.Don’t mention that the idea of Philogene coming on would have also potentially given Forest something different to think about.It's why i was 100% against the sale of Archer. Still think that's a huge error of judgment.Think he's going to go on another 6 or 7 game barren run again now
Hope not. I'd keep him in v Alkmaar as with the way they defended v pace in the home game he'll get 2-3 relatively simple chances so can get back on the scoresheet quickly.
With Duran on the naughty step seemingly wouldn't it be nice to have a CF in the squad we could be confident of starting instead of just watch Ollie fizzle out for a month and bemoan dropped points as a result of not scoring as happened in the run in last season.
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 05, 2023, 11:04:38 PM
It's why i was 100% against the sale of Archer. Still think that's a huge error of judgment.Think he's going to go on another 6 or 7 game barren run again now
Hope not. I'd keep him in v Alkmaar as with the way they defended v pace in the home game he'll get 2-3 relatively simple chances so can get back on the scoresheet quickly.
With Duran on the naughty step seemingly wouldn't it be nice to have a CF in the squad we could be confident of starting instead of just watch Ollie fizzle out for a month and bemoan dropped points as a result of not scoring as happened in the run in last season.
Archer is gone. Maybe he'll return one day, maybe not. We are actually two strikers down on where we were 12 months ago given Ings and Archer were on the bench when we beat Man. United. Ings then came in and scored twice at Brighton which was a very big win.
With Duran not involved the only two options really are put Tielemans on and hope we can thread a ball quickly from the centre or Bailey gets some shots away. Traore clearly not trusted today to do anything. It was the same at Wolves.
We'll have a few more of these games as the season goes on and we simply need more options on the bench for days like this.
Post by: OCD on November 06, 2023, 11:42:10 AM
I agree that we need a Watkins alternative/partner though. Bringing Duran on against Palace completely turned the game. We could have done with that sort of option yesterday.
Post by: Paul.S on November 06, 2023, 05:30:55 PM
Post by: Steve67 on November 06, 2023, 09:14:32 PM
Post by: john e on November 06, 2023, 09:19:16 PM
Unfortunately when he was handed one on a plate in the second half he blew it
Post by: pablo_picasso on November 06, 2023, 09:32:26 PM
As mentioned previously, the service was just not there, other than once.
And he failed miserably on that chance.
It was a relatively simple chance too & could have changed the game.
But at the same time, if the service was better, he could have had more opportunities to put the ball in the net.
Swings & roundabouts...
Post by: Footy-Vill on November 06, 2023, 10:19:23 PM
Fully supporting him for this.
Post by: Footy-Vill on November 07, 2023, 02:46:18 PM
Post by: john e on November 07, 2023, 03:33:20 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on November 09, 2023, 02:20:42 PM
Still no Konsa and all the same names who barely play, or play poorly for their team are all back as well. I think I recently heard that Southgate got upset that Sterling went back home during the last tournament when his house was broken into, and that was a big reason he is no longer a guaranteed pick. Especially as he has stated he picks players who have "never let him down" regularly.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on November 09, 2023, 02:26:17 PM
Post by: dr.chekov on November 09, 2023, 02:26:57 PM
Post by: Risso on November 09, 2023, 02:29:56 PM
Still no Konsa. One of the most inform CBs in the country isn't good enough for Southgate. Everything has been said about Southgate before so I'll leave it there.
Allow me. He's a c***.
Post by: Hookeysmith on November 09, 2023, 02:35:48 PM
That would be a particularly shitty reason to stop picking Sterling.
Especially when the real reason should be that he is an overrated, T rex armed bag of bollocks that has had his best days.
Post by: dr.chekov on November 09, 2023, 02:40:30 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on November 09, 2023, 03:06:06 PM
That would be a particularly shitty reason to stop picking Sterling.
But look who the England manager is at the moment. And he was being picked consistently until the World Cup, then hasn't been picked since. The others he still picks has shown club form is not the reason. So "letting the team down" seems to be the one thing he did at the world cup where none of the rest of the squad did.
edit: Ben White is another player not capped since the World Cup after he also left the squad early. However he didn't have lots of caps beforehand so it rarely gets noticed, although someone raised it in todays presser.
Post by: VillaTim on November 09, 2023, 03:08:43 PM
Post by: eamonn on November 09, 2023, 03:13:31 PM
Post by: Bad English on November 09, 2023, 08:02:39 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on November 09, 2023, 09:08:33 PM
Still no Konsa. One of the most inform CBs in the country isn't good enough for Southgate. Everything has been said about Southgate before so I'll leave it there.
Allow me. He's a c***.
I'd still swap him for Stephen Kenny.
Post by: pablo_picasso on November 09, 2023, 10:28:41 PM
5 in the Prem & 5 in Europe...
Post by: coreyfeldman on November 09, 2023, 11:22:55 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on November 10, 2023, 02:16:50 PM
Post by: PeterWithe on November 10, 2023, 02:21:05 PM
Post by: AV82EC on November 10, 2023, 02:24:04 PM
Good movement for the goal, hassled the CBs when they had the ball and backed into them both well, but, when we needed to go from our CBs to his feet, he suffered from the same 'first touch' issues he's had since he arrived.
Apart from the 5 or so occasions in the second half when he got the ball to feet and distributed excellently to other Villa players. If I had a criticism is that he wasn’t coming deep for the ball often enough as there was acres of space between their defence and midfield and when we got the ball into that space we looked dangerous.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on November 10, 2023, 02:34:25 PM
That would be a particularly shitty reason to stop picking Sterling.
Especially when the real reason should be that he is an overrated, T rex armed bag of bollocks that has had his best days.
Yes but that kind of thing doesn’t really trouble Southgate.
Post by: Somniloquism on November 10, 2023, 03:27:14 PM
Good movement for the goal, hassled the CBs when they had the ball and backed into them both well, but, when we needed to go from our CBs to his feet, he suffered from the same 'first touch' issues he's had since he arrived.
Apart from the 5 or so occasions in the second half when he got the ball to feet and distributed excellently to other Villa players. If I had a criticism is that he wasn’t coming deep for the ball often enough as there was acres of space between their defence and midfield and when we got the ball into that space we looked dangerous.
The goal came from him doing that. He was in midfield and spread it wide to Bailey (https://www.tntsports.co.uk/football/uefa-europa-conference-league/2023-2024/absolute-supreme-quality-ollie-watkins-puts-aston-villa-ahead-after-perfect-douglas-luiz-pass_vid2023941/video.shtml) before he worked back in to Luiz.
Also people seem to forget it was his header that was superbly cleared by the defender.
Post by: Footy-Vill on November 11, 2023, 10:24:11 AM
Post by: caster troy on November 13, 2023, 12:03:35 PM
Post by: Risso on November 13, 2023, 12:36:20 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on November 13, 2023, 12:58:37 PM
Post by: VILLA MOLE on November 13, 2023, 01:07:32 PM
Post by: Risso on November 13, 2023, 01:09:36 PM
It looked like he misjudged the spin off the ground from the rebound. He knows he should have done better though from his reaction.
Yep, pulling your shirt up over your head is classic hiding from what just happened behaviour.
Post by: pablo_picasso on November 13, 2023, 01:20:55 PM
As happens very often, you see the best and worst of Ollie in a short space of time. Excellent finish of a great team goal as caster details above, but then one of the most inexplicable horrendous misses from 6 feet out in front of an empty net.
This.
It becomes more frustrating when we aren't winning comfortably, for obvious reasons, but for the now, he is contributing more than the frustration of his misses...
If that makes sense?
Long may his excellent form continue though.
There is nobody who wants him to prove me wrong more than I do, & as things stand, his form is doing just that. 👍
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 13, 2023, 06:30:34 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-0t1kkWgAAzer4?format=jpg&name=small)
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 13, 2023, 06:40:10 PM
West Ham...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-0t1kkWgAAzer4?format=jpg&name=small)
Reminds me of the time I got a birthday card as a kid. Aunts don’t know football and Villa play in claret and blue. So inevitably I open the envelope to find it’s Trevor Brooking on the front. So, yeh…Ollie Watkins, West Ham makes sense.
Post by: Simon Page on November 13, 2023, 08:49:26 PM
Post by: 85kota on November 13, 2023, 09:00:00 PM
Quote from: pablo_picasso
There is nobody who wants him to prove me wrong more than I do
Having fun arguing with yourself?
Post by: pablo_picasso on November 14, 2023, 11:56:13 AM
Quote from: pablo_picassoThere is nobody who wants him to prove me wrong more than I do
Having fun arguing with yourself?
?
Post by: Footy-Vill on November 20, 2023, 06:36:47 PM
Post by: Dave on November 20, 2023, 06:46:21 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on November 20, 2023, 07:07:39 PM
I think he'll score a brace or a hat trick.
He seems to threaten that every game.
Post by: Risso on November 20, 2023, 07:34:42 PM
Fantastic for Watkins.
I think he'll score a brace or a hat trick.
He seems to threaten that every game.
You seem to say it every game. He's scored more than once in the league for us in four games, out of 120 played.
Post by: AV84 on November 20, 2023, 07:37:24 PM
Fantastic for Watkins.
I think he'll score a brace or a hat trick.
He seems to threaten that every game.
You seem to say it every game. He's scored more than once in the league for us in four games, out of 120 played.
If you count missing sitters as threatening to score 2 or 3, it's true.
Post by: Villafirst on November 20, 2023, 08:06:51 PM
Post by: coreyfeldman on November 20, 2023, 08:08:45 PM
Post by: Villafirst on November 20, 2023, 08:13:19 PM
Christ maguire is a fucking donkey
Agree, Konsa is a far better player than Maguire.
Post by: amfy on November 20, 2023, 09:07:26 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 20, 2023, 09:10:02 PM
Post by: olaftab on November 20, 2023, 09:26:21 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 20, 2023, 09:31:02 PM
In the end as long as he's doing it for us I'm not concerned about England. As long as Kane is there deservedly he's number 1. Watkins has to stay in front of Wilson and Toney when he comes back.
Exactly.
It doesn't matter if it is Ollie or Callum Wilson or whoever, given who is first choice in their role, they're all going to be like Jimmie Nicol, drafted in to play drums for the Beatles whilst Ringo was ill and they were on tour, then dumped alone at the airport to make their way home alone after.
Post by: wolfman999 on November 20, 2023, 09:38:33 PM
Christ maguire is a fucking donkey
What an insult to fucking donkeys.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 20, 2023, 09:44:01 PM
Christ maguire is a fucking donkey
What an insult to fucking donkeys.
There's nothing wrong with fucking donkeys.
Post by: Villafirst on November 20, 2023, 09:48:06 PM
Post by: Steve67 on November 20, 2023, 09:52:21 PM
Christ maguire is a fucking donkey
What an insult to fucking donkeys.
There's nothing wrong with fucking donkeys.
Pervert!
Post by: Stu on November 20, 2023, 09:53:37 PM
Post by: Dave on November 20, 2023, 09:55:55 PM
Villa would fucking batter this England team and Ollie would score about 8 against that liability Maguire
Guess we'll find out on Boxing Day.
Post by: FatSam on November 20, 2023, 10:13:22 PM
He’s our No 9 he’ll score some more goals he’ll miss some more goals but I’ll eat my sou’wester if he scores 20 league goals this seasonIt’s quite good, but not as catchy as the Matty Cash song.
Post by: Footy-Vill on November 20, 2023, 10:33:58 PM
That's a misleading statistic. It's selective as much as its fact.Fantastic for Watkins.
I think he'll score a brace or a hat trick.
He seems to threaten that every game.
You seem to say it every game. He's scored more than once in the league for us in four games, out of 120 played.
If you count missing sitters as threatening to score 2 or 3, it's true.
We have to focus on the here and now. And under Emery
Ollie scored two hat tricks this season.
Last season, he scored record goals in consecutive matches away from home.
Of course, credit Deano for bringing him to Villa but he's a different level under Emery, propelled to international class.
We go into games with Watkins playing, expecting him to have opportunities. And expecting him to score.
With a game against Spurs, he'll both be afforded and engineer chances and be given service. Then, in four games in ten days, he will have opportunities, whatever his minutes.
If it's not against the Spurs defenders, Its not beyond him and not unsurprising if he does score a brace or hat trick in games before the end of December let alone more coming before the end of the season.
Post by: VillaTim on November 20, 2023, 10:38:51 PM
Post by: sid1964 on November 21, 2023, 05:45:05 AM
Emery needs to employ a heading coach, to help Watkins improve that area of his game
Post by: LeeB on November 21, 2023, 07:42:39 AM
Post by: Axl Rose on November 21, 2023, 08:06:16 AM
If he was poor good, they're less likely to play him and injure him and he's the last player we can afford to lose.
Yeah, same here, mate. It doesn't really matter how well he plays anyway. That diving twat Kane will always be first choice.
I'm at the point now where I want England to lose every game. A squad rammed with wankers galore, playing for teams I'd like to see liquidated, with fans I'd like to see catapulted into a river full of crocodiles.
Southgate is a massive penis.
Post by: LeeB on November 21, 2023, 08:11:00 AM
If he was poor good, they're less likely to play him and injure him and he's the last player we can afford to lose.
Yeah, same here, mate. It doesn't really matter how well he plays anyway. That diving twat Kane will always be first choice.
I'm at the point now where I want England to lose every game. A squad rammed with wankers galore, playing for teams I'd like to see liquidated, with fans I'd like to see catapulted into a river full of crocodiles.
Southgate is a massive penis.
Fully agreed pal.
Post by: Clampy on November 21, 2023, 08:40:41 AM
Post by: The Man With A Stick on November 21, 2023, 08:53:07 AM
I haven't cared about England for about 20 years but I'm rapidly losing interest in international football full stop. It's all a load of tedious bollocks.
Post by: London Villan on November 21, 2023, 08:54:57 AM
Post by: Clampy on November 21, 2023, 09:02:05 AM
Kane is rightly the first choice, but if he gets injured or suspended then we have very little international experience to bring in. Having qualified and playing against Malta and North Macedonia it was a perfect opportunity to give a couple of strikers the chance to lead the line - ideally with the confidence that they will play the full 90 minutes. Not looking over their shoulder for Kane to appear on the touchline.
Exactly this. If you can't put some trust in the players you've called up then what's the point in picking them? Pulling Watkins off 13 minutes into the second half just to try and score a goal just lacked imagination.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on November 21, 2023, 09:14:50 AM
Post by: Bully2345 on November 21, 2023, 09:25:47 AM
It's a competitive England international, not a kick about in the playground. Imagine not bringing the record goalscorer on at 1-0 down after an hour.
People have issues with Southgate and I get that but whacking him for bringing Kane on is wild.
Watkins had significant time on the pitch and wasn't having his best day but he and they will have learned a lot from it. I doubt even he will be that cheesed off with being replaced
Post by: Risso on November 21, 2023, 09:28:36 AM
At the risk of this becoming a Southgate thread ...
It's a competitive England international, not a kick about in the playground. Imagine not bringing the record goalscorer on at 1-0 down after an hour.
People have issues with Southgate and I get that but whacking him for bringing Kane on is wild.
Watkins had significant time on the pitch and wasn't having his best day but he and they will have learned a lot from it. I doubt even he will be that cheesed off with being replaced
I agree with your general point, but Watkins looks severely pissed off if one of his team mates scores, so I reckon he'll be apoplectic at being subbed.
Post by: Dave on November 21, 2023, 09:33:45 AM
At the risk of this becoming a Southgate thread ...
It's a competitive England international, not a kick about in the playground. Imagine not bringing the record goalscorer on at 1-0 down after an hour.
People have issues with Southgate and I get that but whacking him for bringing Kane on is wild.
Watkins had significant time on the pitch and wasn't having his best day but he and they will have learned a lot from it. I doubt even he will be that cheesed off with being replaced
I agree with your general point, but Watkins looks severely pissed off if one of his team mates scores, so I reckon he'll be apoplectic at being subbed.
Agreed with the thrust of all of the above. I'd also add that if there is anything to be annoyed at with the Watkins / Southgate dynamic last night is that rather than try and play to Watkins' strengths he just asked him to do a bad Harry Kane impression. It should have been balls to run onto in the channels rather than it bouncing off him on the half-way line.
Post by: Risso on November 21, 2023, 09:35:34 AM
Post by: Somniloquism on November 21, 2023, 09:37:13 AM
Although it is noticeable that Kane is getting all the credit for dragging a defender into a position for the ball to bounce off him and go into the net. Obviously I don't know if Watkins was also making the same runs into the box at corners which is normally coached in to the teams anyway, ("If I stick this hand in the air, it will go near post") but people stating "that is why Kane is needed" is doing a massive disservice to the others.
(Edit: slow typing means beaten to the punch by Dave as usual)
Post by: Clampy on November 21, 2023, 09:39:35 AM
At the risk of this becoming a Southgate thread ...
It's a competitive England international, not a kick about in the playground. Imagine not bringing the record goalscorer on at 1-0 down after an hour.
People have issues with Southgate and I get that but whacking him for bringing Kane on is wild.
Watkins had significant time on the pitch and wasn't having his best day but he and they will have learned a lot from it. I doubt even he will be that cheesed off with being replaced
He'd have probably done the same thing had it been a friendly.
Post by: PeterWithe on November 21, 2023, 09:43:06 AM
Post by: Drummond on November 21, 2023, 11:05:35 AM
Post by: nick harper on November 21, 2023, 01:23:48 PM
12 touches in an hour. It's hardly a surprise that he'd find it hard to score.
But that’s no different to how he plays for us. He’s commented that he stays within the width of the penalty areas and doesn’t run the wide channels any more. Emery wants his touches in and around the penalty area.
I’ve no idea what Southgate asked him to do but Kane has quite rightly moulded a role that brings out the best in Harry Kane for England. It’s extremely difficult for any striker to replace him, and would be a massive problem if he ever got injured.
Post by: Risso on November 21, 2023, 01:43:52 PM
Post by: Mister E on November 21, 2023, 01:47:53 PM
if Southgate doesn't recognise the fact that players are not all the same, we really do have a problem. Having said that, he failed to deploy JG to his strengths. He appears, as ever, to be fitting square pegs in round holes ...12 touches in an hour. It's hardly a surprise that he'd find it hard to score.But that’s no different to how he plays for us. He’s commented that he stays within the width of the penalty areas and doesn’t run the wide channels any more. Emery wants his touches in and around the penalty area.
I’ve no idea what Southgate asked him to do but Kane has quite rightly moulded a role that brings out the best in Harry Kane for England. It’s extremely difficult for any striker to replace him, and would be a massive problem if he ever got injured.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 21, 2023, 02:12:09 PM
Quote
England manager Gareth Southgate to Channel Four: "Clearly Ollie Watkins' game is different to Harry Kane's. It is for us to adapt to his way of playing and we're not expecting him to build in the same way that Harry does. He's good at build-up play but of course he has great strength running in behind teams and pressing from the front. We want to play to his qualities, not the other way around."
Post by: Smithy on November 21, 2023, 02:32:54 PM
Southgate said this before the game, and yet we looked exactly the same against Malta, and when Kane replaced Ollie.QuoteEngland manager Gareth Southgate to Channel Four: "Clearly Ollie Watkins' game is different to Harry Kane's. It is for us to adapt to his way of playing and we're not expecting him to build in the same way that Harry does. He's good at build-up play but of course he has great strength running in behind teams and pressing from the front. We want to play to his qualities, not the other way around."
I think his pressing abilities are what will keep him around the squad in the run-up to the Euros (as long as he keeps scoring at a moderate rate). He does that job better than anyone, and I'm certain Southgate being the negative coach he is, will value having someone like that available should he want to focus on preventing teams having time to build patiently from the back.
Post by: coreyfeldman on November 21, 2023, 03:02:53 PM
Post by: amfy on November 21, 2023, 03:55:29 PM
It made me think that was exactly where he was told to be, yet for the vast majority of the game, no one seemed to be able to send the ball there.
I am not convinced the low number of touches was entirely his fault!
Post by: eamonn on November 21, 2023, 04:20:22 PM
Post by: Skerra on November 21, 2023, 06:46:36 PM
Post by: Dave on November 21, 2023, 07:42:03 PM
In my humble opinion Watkins is not international level
Isn't that a slightly meaningless description? I saw Aveley F.C play last Saturday, one of their centre-backs is a regular international for Guyana.
If Watkins is one of the best three of four strikers of his nationality and therefore good enough to get selected ahead of the others then he's "international level".
Post by: Beard82 on November 21, 2023, 08:14:43 PM
World Class players, and its no shame not to be comparable to that. He's international class in that, other than Kane - there is only Callum Wilson and Toney who could be considered as a replacement.
Post by: Skerra on November 22, 2023, 08:19:37 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on November 22, 2023, 08:42:59 PM
He's a top striker who threatens to score two or three goals per game, and many people aren't surprised for him to score any time. Watkins has the ability to score against anyone in the Premier League. His shooting is up there with the best attacking players in the league. Emery has taken him to another level.
3rd for Shots On Target this season (joint)
27 : Haaland
17 : Salah
16 : Ollie Watkins (Son, Jackson, Núñez)
3rd For Shots (joint)
46: Haaland
38: Salah
36: Ollie Watkins, (Fernandes, Rashford)
Post by: Dante Lavelli on November 22, 2023, 09:01:33 PM
Southgate said this before the game, and yet we looked exactly the same against Malta, and when Kane replaced Ollie.QuoteEngland manager Gareth Southgate to Channel Four: "Clearly Ollie Watkins' game is different to Harry Kane's. It is for us to adapt to his way of playing and we're not expecting him to build in the same way that Harry does. He's good at build-up play but of course he has great strength running in behind teams and pressing from the front. We want to play to his qualities, not the other way around."
I think his pressing abilities are what will keep him around the squad in the run-up to the Euros (as long as he keeps scoring at a moderate rate). He does that job better than anyone, and I'm certain Southgate being the negative coach he is, will value having someone like that available should he want to focus on preventing teams having time to build patiently from the back.
Pressing must be hard when we/England have (guessing) 70% possession. It might be the next stage of his evolution that he develops an ‘in possession’ skill. From what I’ve read he is a willing student and I trust Emery to have a plan (Southgate a lot less so)
Post by: VillaTim on November 22, 2023, 09:31:23 PM
The neutral view is that he was poor as we would all be saying had it been Callum Wilson giving a similar performance. But fuck'em, he does the business for the Villa more often than not, that's all I care about.He was poor , but I only really care about what he does for us . Give him 3 good chances per game and 1 of them is going in (on average). If he was more clinical he'd be top scorer in the EPL this season.
Post by: Dave on November 22, 2023, 11:24:23 PM
Ollie, international standard, sorry not for me.
Still have no idea what this means.
Post by: Rigadon on November 23, 2023, 02:56:39 PM
Post by: Dave on November 23, 2023, 03:13:06 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 23, 2023, 03:15:56 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on November 23, 2023, 03:56:28 PM
You'd also think that a squad of 23 has room for three actual strikers, regardless of how good the main one is.
Part of the problem these days is how many "wingers" are now included as attackers rather then midfielders. So at the last World Cup, you had Sterling, Grealish, Saka, and I will include Rashford the way England play him, classed the same as Wilson and Kane who are the only recognised strikers in the squad. Yes Rashford could be a dual role player, but like Watkins, he doesn't play in the same fashion as Kane.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 23, 2023, 04:22:37 PM
Ollie, international standard, sorry not for me.
Still have no idea what this means.
It means that Watkins is no Ché Adams.
Post by: dcdavecollett on November 24, 2023, 01:30:49 AM
Post by: VillaTim on November 24, 2023, 11:03:45 AM
Ollie has a great first touch -sometimes. He'll need to be more consistent at this to get more international chances.Misses too many gilt edged chances to be considered as a world class striker
Post by: Somniloquism on November 24, 2023, 11:09:57 AM
Ollie has a great first touch -sometimes. He'll need to be more consistent at this to get more international chances.Misses too many gilt edged chances to be considered as a world class striker
I don't think many people consider him to be world class, however being as we only have one English world class striker around, he is one of the best of the rest who can cover for him, which is what he was doing the other day.
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 24, 2023, 11:28:57 AM
Ollie has a great first touch -sometimes. He'll need to be more consistent at this to get more international chances.Great first touch!
Bloody hell.
Post by: VillaTim on November 24, 2023, 01:10:19 PM
Post by: Risso on November 24, 2023, 02:01:01 PM
Ollie has a great first touch -sometimes. He'll need to be more consistent at this to get more international chances.Great first touch!
Bloody hell.
To be fair, sometimes he does have, like sometimes he's deadly in front of goal. It's just that on occasions, his first touch has all the subtlety and finesse of me on a bouncy castle. Whilst drunk, and wearing clogs.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 26, 2023, 04:21:39 PM
Post by: supertom on November 26, 2023, 04:23:55 PM
Another game another goal. 7 in 13 PL games, 12 in 20 in all club comps.A few inches from a hattrick too. A whisker offside (and he doesn't often get caught now), and then not far wide from a header.
Post by: brontebilly on November 26, 2023, 04:24:43 PM
Post by: pablo_picasso on November 26, 2023, 04:25:58 PM
Another game another goal. 7 in 13 PL games, 12 in 20 in all club comps.
Yeah, with a cracking touch & goal for the win too... 👍
Fair play to this sort of form. 👌
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 26, 2023, 04:31:17 PM
1. Agbonlahor 73
2. Yorke 60
3. Dublin 48
4. Ollie 47
5. JPA 44
6. Benteke 42
7. Barry 41
8. Joachim 39
9. Carew 37
9. Saunders 37
Post by: Ian. on November 26, 2023, 05:35:41 PM
Another game another goal. 7 in 13 PL games, 12 in 20 in all club comps.A few inches from a hattrick too. A whisker offside (and he doesn't often get caught now), and then not far wide from a header.
He done well today. He was feeding off scraps and still nearly had three. I’m not so sure it was offside either. Bloody close call.
As for Son, he had a right stinker, he was miles offside so many times today.
Post by: Footy-Vill on November 26, 2023, 05:57:13 PM
Ball in net twice.
And a brilliant finish for his goal.
Other through balls just didn't run for him
Post by: Risso on November 26, 2023, 06:01:41 PM
Another game another goal. 7 in 13 PL games, 12 in 20 in all club comps.A few inches from a hattrick too. A whisker offside (and he doesn't often get caught now), and then not far wide from a header.
He done well today. He was feeding off scraps and still nearly had three. I’m not so sure it was offside either. Bloody close call.
As for Son, he had a right stinker, he was miles offside so many times today.
Typical Villa luck Ollie buries the offside one but misses the arguably easier chance that wasn't. Very good touch and quick feet for the goal, didn't look to be a lot on when he received the ball.
Post by: dave shelley on November 26, 2023, 06:06:11 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 03, 2023, 04:01:50 PM
Now joint 3rd with Dion.
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 03, 2023, 04:03:15 PM
Post by: DrGonzo on December 03, 2023, 04:06:46 PM
Post by: Ian. on December 03, 2023, 04:06:49 PM
We had two moments of absolute class, his header and Konsa’s tackle.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 03, 2023, 04:16:13 PM
That might be the best header he’s ever scored for us. Just a superb finish.
Didn't I read the other day he hadn't scored a header in absolute ages? Well if so he certainly put that record straight and what a header, keeper had no chance.
Post by: brontebilly on December 03, 2023, 04:20:24 PM
That might be the best header he’s ever scored for us. Just a superb finish.
Unbelievable tekkers
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 03, 2023, 04:25:42 PM
13 in 21 in all comps for us. Plus 1 in 2 for England.
Post by: AV84 on December 03, 2023, 05:25:26 PM
Post by: Olneythelonely on December 03, 2023, 06:43:21 PM
Post by: Clampy on December 03, 2023, 06:45:32 PM
Post by: Olneythelonely on December 03, 2023, 06:50:46 PM
He didn't let us down today.
I know.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on December 03, 2023, 07:06:51 PM
Yes, he misses easy chances but he makes up for it by putting away chances like that one. As I’ve said many times before, if he scores all his chances he wouldn’t be playing for us.
Post by: 85kota on December 03, 2023, 07:11:43 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 03, 2023, 07:47:06 PM
Keeps missing those easy chances and letting us down.
Weird thing to look at after that goal.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 03, 2023, 07:52:15 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 03, 2023, 07:52:57 PM
Post by: danno on December 03, 2023, 07:53:29 PM
I assume Olney was taking the piss out of the stick Ollie gets.
Jokes are no fun if you explain them! I got it Olney. Good work.
Post by: Olof's Beard on December 03, 2023, 10:08:38 PM
Post by: brontebilly on December 03, 2023, 11:20:44 PM
Post by: Olneythelonely on December 03, 2023, 11:42:46 PM
I assume Olney was taking the piss out of the stick Ollie gets.
Jokes are no fun if you explain them! I got it Olney. Good work.
Thanks Danno.
But unfortunately, it did need explaining apparently, so thanks PWS too.
Post by: VillaTim on December 03, 2023, 11:46:11 PM
He scored a cracker with his left against West Ham but surely that was his best goal for us today?Yeah , absolutely had it all to do when the cross came in slightly behind him, it's a world class header . Delightful goal.
Post by: stevo_st on December 04, 2023, 11:20:30 AM
Post by: Risso on December 04, 2023, 11:22:04 AM
Post by: pablo_picasso on December 04, 2023, 12:10:59 PM
Maybe Emerys instructions have changed his "feast or famine" goalscoring bouts a thing of the past?
Fingers crossed, as this Watkins is superb...
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 06, 2023, 04:24:50 PM
I would love it if he doubles that tonight!
Man City are going to offer up chances.
Up to Watkins to take them. Certainly capable and I really think he's going to make a statement tonight.
Go Ollie!
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 07, 2023, 09:02:48 PM
Prem: 4 goals in 6 games
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 10, 2023, 06:04:13 PM
3 matches 1 goal.
1 Win 2 Draws
In the Prem Villa are actually Unbeaten against Brentford when Watkins has played.
Post by: Somniloquism on December 10, 2023, 07:15:02 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 13, 2023, 09:27:19 AM
Last 6 matches 3 goals 1 Assist.
Post by: stevo_st on December 13, 2023, 02:43:05 PM
Last 2 matches 0 goals 0 Assist.
Post by: VillaTim on December 13, 2023, 02:45:31 PM
Post by: Dave on December 13, 2023, 05:37:52 PM
There's also this myth that you can actual get 20 goal a season strikers fairly easily. When in reality how many strikers actual score 20+ goals for more than a single season in their entire career? I make it as 19 since 1992/93 (as that's an easy place to start):
- Les Ferdinand (92/93, 94/95, 95/96)
Couldn't think of anywhere better to put this, so just searched his name. This week's Quickly Kevin podcast (Brian Little last week, well worth a listen) goes into quite a bit of detail with him about when he nearly joined us before he eventually went to Newcastle.
Apparently Ellis bumped into him at the end of 94-95 season in the Carribbean, and asked if he's be interested in joining if we made a bid. He told Ellis that he was. Then in the summer we agreed the £6m fee with QPR and he was getting ready to drive up to Birmingham to sign the contract with us, when Keegan drove down to London to talk to him and persuaded him to join Newcastle instead.
I thought that the narrative was that we only got involved after he'd already agreed to join Newcastle. Is the above widely known?
Post by: Risso on December 13, 2023, 09:52:49 PM
There's also this myth that you can actual get 20 goal a season strikers fairly easily. When in reality how many strikers actual score 20+ goals for more than a single season in their entire career? I make it as 19 since 1992/93 (as that's an easy place to start):
- Les Ferdinand (92/93, 94/95, 95/96)
Couldn't think of anywhere better to put this, so just searched his name. This week's Quickly Kevin podcast (Brian Little last week, well worth a listen) goes into quite a bit of detail with him about when he nearly joined us before he eventually went to Newcastle.
Apparently Ellis bumped into him at the end of 94-95 season in the Carribbean, and asked if he's be interested in joining if we made a bid. He told Ellis that he was. Then in the summer we agreed the £6m fee with QPR and he was getting ready to drive up to Birmingham to sign the contract with us, when Keegan drove down to London to talk to him and persuaded him to join Newcastle instead.
I thought that the narrative was that we only got involved after he'd already agreed to join Newcastle. Is the above widely known?
Not the exact detail, but we definitely agreed the fee first. I remember it being announced that we'd had a bid agreed, then the day after reading on Ceefax that he was joining them instead, I was gutted.
Post by: Olneythelonely on December 17, 2023, 04:20:51 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 17, 2023, 04:21:24 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 17, 2023, 04:27:32 PM
1. Agbonlahor 73
2. Yorke 60
3. Ollie 49
4. Dublin 48
5. JPA 44
6. Benteke 42
7. Barry 41
8. Joachim 39
9. Carew 37
9. Saunders 37
Post by: Risso on December 17, 2023, 04:28:55 PM
Post by: Olneythelonely on December 17, 2023, 04:31:18 PM
Be nice if the dubious goals panel could belatedly have a look at some of Agbonlahor's, must be some in there that could be given as own goals, surely.
Should cancel all his goals against Blues, given how shit they are.
Post by: luke95 on December 17, 2023, 04:33:34 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on December 17, 2023, 04:37:19 PM
Post by: Richard E on December 17, 2023, 04:38:11 PM
Be nice if the dubious goals panel could belatedly have a look at some of Agbonlahor's, must be some in there that could be given as own goals, surely.
Ollie will have overtaken him by about March anyway .
Should cancel all his goals against Blues, given how shit they are.
Post by: Tony Daleys Shorts on December 17, 2023, 07:45:13 PM
Post by: Ian. on December 17, 2023, 07:46:44 PM
Post by: Dave on December 17, 2023, 08:06:30 PM
Talk of crying nine year olds and "I thought he still loved us, Dad?!" chat.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 17, 2023, 08:07:47 PM
Post by: LukeJames on December 17, 2023, 08:52:27 PM
Post by: AV82EC on December 17, 2023, 08:56:11 PM
Post by: dave shelley on December 17, 2023, 09:21:47 PM
I know it's true because I remember seeing it but I can't remember who posted it. The lad's mother posted her appreciation of Ollie for doing it. Those salty Brentford fans mustn't have seen it, either that or they have very short memories/amnesia.
Post by: KevinGage on December 17, 2023, 09:27:28 PM
There's also this myth that you can actual get 20 goal a season strikers fairly easily. When in reality how many strikers actual score 20+ goals for more than a single season in their entire career? I make it as 19 since 1992/93 (as that's an easy place to start):
- Les Ferdinand (92/93, 94/95, 95/96)
Couldn't think of anywhere better to put this, so just searched his name. This week's Quickly Kevin podcast (Brian Little last week, well worth a listen) goes into quite a bit of detail with him about when he nearly joined us before he eventually went to Newcastle.
Apparently Ellis bumped into him at the end of 94-95 season in the Carribbean, and asked if he's be interested in joining if we made a bid. He told Ellis that he was. Then in the summer we agreed the £6m fee with QPR and he was getting ready to drive up to Birmingham to sign the contract with us, when Keegan drove down to London to talk to him and persuaded him to join Newcastle instead.
I thought that the narrative was that we only got involved after he'd already agreed to join Newcastle. Is the above widely known?
Was prob best for everyone how it panned out in the end.
Sign Ferdinand and I don't think we'd have had enough for Southgate, Draper and Savo. And maybe Yorke doesn't have his breakout season.
After 1994/95 that side needed more than just a regular goalscorer, good as Ferdinand was.
Post by: SamTheMouse on December 17, 2023, 10:10:02 PM
Post by: KevinGage on December 18, 2023, 08:35:15 AM
Quote
It seems that not only do Aston Villa not have a Brentford-style "no dickheads" policy, they have a policy of creating dickheads out of decent young men.
At least Ollie recognised that he was the cause of all the nonsense in the last 15 minutes. It's incredible that his employers have sought to turn the spotlight back on Brentford. I hope they lose all their remaining games this season - even against Putney.
Ben Mee, Neal Maupey, Ivan Toney, Rico Henry and previously that big gormless centre half from Leedzzz.
Not to mention the randy ski instructor they have in the manager's dug out.
Post by: LukeJames on December 18, 2023, 08:58:15 AM
Post by: aldridgeboy on December 18, 2023, 09:02:18 AM
Post by: London Villan on December 18, 2023, 09:02:30 AM
Post by: AV84 on December 18, 2023, 09:07:02 AM
Most players seen to accept a certain level of abuse if its aimed at them, but Watkins clearly felt it crossed a line yesterday, and anyone who has watched him play for any length of time would know he generally keeps his head down and that reaction was out of the ordinary for him.
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 18, 2023, 09:14:08 AM
Got to love this saltiness from that weird Brentford site:QuoteIt seems that not only do Aston Villa not have a Brentford-style "no dickheads" policy, they have a policy of creating dickheads out of decent young men.
At least Ollie recognised that he was the cause of all the nonsense in the last 15 minutes. It's incredible that his employers have sought to turn the spotlight back on Brentford. I hope they lose all their remaining games this season - even against Putney.
Ben Mee, Neal Maupey, Ivan Toney, Rico Henry and previously that big gormless centre half from Leedzzz.
Not to mention the randy ski instructor they have in the manager's dug out.
Thomas Frank is the reincarnation of this nightmare fuel from late 80s/early 90s kids tv....
(https://i.ibb.co/Lz4rW7M/vlcsnap-00412.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Lz4rW7M)
Post by: LukeJames on December 18, 2023, 09:55:36 AM
Theres no place in football for this kind of behaviour. Ollie Watkins actually clenched his fists towards the Aston Villa supporters, won't somebody think of the Children.
Post by: Dave on December 18, 2023, 09:58:55 AM
"Just to be clear, I'm in the North stand on the half way line. Watkins continued to celebrate by clenching his fist towards the Villa fans as he got back to the centre circle. No sympathy for the throbber."
Theres no place in football for this kind of behaviour. Ollie Watkins actually clenched his fists towards the Aston Villa supporters, won't somebody think of the Children.
Once The Hague have finished dealing with Matty Cash's crimes against humanity, we'll get Watkins straight over to them.
Post by: PeterWithe on December 18, 2023, 10:04:36 AM
Post by: Monty on December 18, 2023, 10:11:34 AM
We've got a tribalism issue in football, it's got really nasty. The way Spurs fans behaved about the Cash thing, Arsenal's preposterous invective against us, now all this...is it maybe a when-you're-at-the-top thing? I don't know.
Post by: Smithy on December 18, 2023, 10:33:05 AM
What a bunch of blouses. They have some unmentionable c**t lobbing abuse at the guy's family and they side with the guy. Fuck off then, wish Ollie really had given the lot of you the big 'un.
We've got a tribalism issue in football, it's got really nasty. The way Spurs fans behaved about the Cash thing, Arsenal's preposterous invective against us, now all this...is it maybe a when-you're-at-the-top thing? I don't know.
it is most DEFINITELY a when-you're-at-the-top thing. We're in that funny place right now where a lot of neutrals think of us a 'nice' team, because we're giving the 'big six' a bloody nose while playing pretty good football. However, slowly but surely, week after week, we're beating the teams that these neutrals support, and that changes things. No supporter EVER likes seeing their side beaten, and these days there are a LOT of supporters enjoying that losing feeling at the hands of Aston Villa.
It comes with the territory, and long may it continue!
Post by: astonvilla82 on December 18, 2023, 11:08:51 AM
It has now been dealt with, he's been sentenced to 30 years in a Russian Gulag in Siberia, which won't be a problem for Matty as he has Polish blood and can take it on the chin"Just to be clear, I'm in the North stand on the half way line. Watkins continued to celebrate by clenching his fist towards the Villa fans as he got back to the centre circle. No sympathy for the throbber."
Theres no place in football for this kind of behaviour. Ollie Watkins actually clenched his fists towards the Aston Villa supporters, won't somebody think of the Children.
Once The Hague have finished dealing with Matty Cash's crimes against humanity, we'll get Watkins straight over to them.
Post by: Risso on December 18, 2023, 11:16:04 AM
We’ve arrived, ladies and gents.
Post by: LeeB on December 18, 2023, 11:42:43 AM
Man City fans all blarting about Mopey’s non penalty.
We’ve arrived, ladies and gents.
It was so pathetic, he coughed up a ten yard head start and was out of steam so launched himself sideways into Konsa.
Honestly, fuck these twats.
Post by: LeeB on December 18, 2023, 11:46:03 AM
Post by: VillaTim on December 18, 2023, 11:48:25 AM
Post by: Bad English on December 18, 2023, 11:52:05 AM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 18, 2023, 12:18:10 PM
And a word also for Watkins reaction when asked if he'd do it again on MOTD, top man.
Absolutely. I'm actually glad they interviewed him and asked the question. Good on him.
Post by: Dogtanian on December 18, 2023, 12:33:35 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on December 18, 2023, 12:36:54 PM
Post by: Dogtanian on December 18, 2023, 12:42:45 PM
Did I hear he is either level or now ahead of Yorke for league goals scored in a calendar year with 21 currently. He actually has 26 in all competitions in 2023.
I believe he has the record now.
Post by: Flamingo Lane on December 18, 2023, 12:45:52 PM
Post by: caster troy on December 18, 2023, 12:59:18 PM
I don't know if this has already been commented on but when interviewed by Sky after yesterday's game, Watkins did say something that I found a bit peculiar. Clearly not happy, he said something along the lines of having been frustrated by not receiving the ball, and that he doesn't want to just be used for scoring goals when they are needed at the end of games. Don't know what anyone else picked up from that?
I think he just meant that there were other times earlier in the game where he got into good positions but we didn't get the ball to him, maybe if we had we wouldn't have had to chase the game. My stream cut out a fair bit so I can't think of many specific instances of this, there was one where Moreno was played in by JJ and he could possibly have squared it.
Post by: VILLA MOLE on December 18, 2023, 01:03:39 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 18, 2023, 01:10:35 PM
The lack of service first half from the right side with Cash and Diaby must have had him pulling his hair out. He was feeding off scraps most of the game so deserves credit for being alert to score when he finally did get a decent chance.
Post by: Villan82 on December 18, 2023, 02:06:18 PM
Post by: LeeB on December 18, 2023, 02:19:53 PM
Glad to see other posters pointing out that he has surpassed Dion Dublin's 47 PL goals for us. Worth pointing out he has done it in three years whereas Dion was on the books for five and a half years. Yorke played for us in 6 PL seasons and hit 60 goals. Ollie has to be up there with Yorke and Benteke as the three best strikers since 1992.
To be fair to Dion, he was scoring at a fair old rate until the broken neck and the last couple of seasons he was out on loan or auxillery centre half.
Post by: Dogtanian on December 18, 2023, 02:22:05 PM
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/ollie-watkins-brentford-aston-villa-met-police-b1127668.html (https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/ollie-watkins-brentford-aston-villa-met-police-b1127668.html)
Are even the Met allowed to truncheon suspects days after the event?
Post by: LeeB on December 18, 2023, 02:24:36 PM
Evening Standard reporting the Met are in contact with Villa over the abuse of Watkins.
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/ollie-watkins-brentford-aston-villa-met-police-b1127668.html (https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/ollie-watkins-brentford-aston-villa-met-police-b1127668.html)
Are even the Met allowed to truncheon suspects days after the event?
They'll probably arrest Ollie claiming one of them smelt cannabis.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 18, 2023, 02:27:05 PM
Post by: rob_bridge on December 18, 2023, 02:27:50 PM
Glad to see other posters pointing out that he has surpassed Dion Dublin's 47 PL goals for us. Worth pointing out he has done it in three years whereas Dion was on the books for five and a half years. Yorke played for us in 6 PL seasons and hit 60 goals. Ollie has to be up there with Yorke and Benteke as the three best strikers since 1992.
To be fair to Dion, he was scoring at a fair old rate until the broken neck and the last couple of seasons he was out on loan or auxillery centre half.
Yes and Yorke was a fringe player (astonishingly) for nearly half of that period. Or played out wide.
Post by: amfy on December 18, 2023, 02:34:44 PM
Players can hear individuals near the front. I remember us winding Shawcross up when he played for Stoke just by repeatedly calling his name in a sing song voice.
Post by: LeeB on December 18, 2023, 02:40:32 PM
He said you can see him on the coverage and he is right in the front row. When Ollie is in the back of the goal you can see the fan shouting ‘Wanker’ at him repeatedly.
Players can hear individuals near the front. I remember us winding Shawcross up when he played for Stoke just by repeatedly calling his name in a sing song voice.
:D
Post by: Dogtanian on December 18, 2023, 02:40:40 PM
Post by: dave shelley on December 18, 2023, 03:02:33 PM
He said you can see him on the coverage and he is right in the front row. When Ollie is in the back of the goal you can see the fan shouting ‘Wanker’ at him repeatedly.
Players can hear individuals near the front. I remember us winding Shawcross up when he played for Stoke just by repeatedly calling his name in a sing song voice.
It looked to me like the bloke in the light-coloured jacket right in the centre and definitely repeated wanker at Ollie. The bloke wasn't too young either the stupid pillock.
Post by: Grande Pablo on December 18, 2023, 04:20:08 PM
He said you can see him on the coverage and he is right in the front row. When Ollie is in the back of the goal you can see the fan shouting ‘Wanker’ at him repeatedly.
Players can hear individuals near the front. I remember us winding Shawcross up when he played for Stoke just by repeatedly calling his name in a sing song voice.
At Selhurt Park in 1997/8-ish when we drew 3-3 with Wimbledon I not-so-comically shouted to Gary Charles something unamusing about his shorts being hitched high as only he & Stuart Pearce seemed to do. He heard every word & didn't look chuffed. Never done it since.
Post by: Rigadon on December 18, 2023, 04:21:14 PM
He said you can see him on the coverage and he is right in the front row. When Ollie is in the back of the goal you can see the fan shouting ‘Wanker’ at him repeatedly.
Players can hear individuals near the front. I remember us winding Shawcross up when he played for Stoke just by repeatedly calling his name in a sing song voice.
It looked to me like the bloke in the light-coloured jacket right in the centre and definitely repeated wanker at Ollie. The bloke wasn't too young either the stupid pillock.
Cringe!
Post by: dave shelley on December 18, 2023, 04:22:29 PM
He said you can see him on the coverage and he is right in the front row. When Ollie is in the back of the goal you can see the fan shouting ‘Wanker’ at him repeatedly.
Players can hear individuals near the front. I remember us winding Shawcross up when he played for Stoke just by repeatedly calling his name in a sing song voice.
It looked to me like the bloke in the light-coloured jacket right in the centre and definitely repeated wanker at Ollie. The bloke wasn't too young either the stupid pillock.
Cringe!
?, Me or him?
Post by: London Villan on December 18, 2023, 04:25:34 PM
Post by: Rigadon on December 18, 2023, 04:32:24 PM
He said you can see him on the coverage and he is right in the front row. When Ollie is in the back of the goal you can see the fan shouting ‘Wanker’ at him repeatedly.
Players can hear individuals near the front. I remember us winding Shawcross up when he played for Stoke just by repeatedly calling his name in a sing song voice.
It looked to me like the bloke in the light-coloured jacket right in the centre and definitely repeated wanker at Ollie. The bloke wasn't too young either the stupid pillock.
Cringe!
?, Me or him?
Definitely him.
Post by: dave shelley on December 18, 2023, 04:34:12 PM
He said you can see him on the coverage and he is right in the front row. When Ollie is in the back of the goal you can see the fan shouting ‘Wanker’ at him repeatedly.
Players can hear individuals near the front. I remember us winding Shawcross up when he played for Stoke just by repeatedly calling his name in a sing song voice.
It looked to me like the bloke in the light-coloured jacket right in the centre and definitely repeated wanker at Ollie. The bloke wasn't too young either the stupid pillock.
Cringe!
?, Me or him?
Definitely him.
Ah, gotcha. I try my best not to be cringeworthy.😉
Post by: Rigadon on December 18, 2023, 04:38:54 PM
He said you can see him on the coverage and he is right in the front row. When Ollie is in the back of the goal you can see the fan shouting ‘Wanker’ at him repeatedly.
Players can hear individuals near the front. I remember us winding Shawcross up when he played for Stoke just by repeatedly calling his name in a sing song voice.
It looked to me like the bloke in the light-coloured jacket right in the centre and definitely repeated wanker at Ollie. The bloke wasn't too young either the stupid pillock.
Cringe!
?, Me or him?
Definitely him.
Ah, gotcha. I try my best not to be cringeworthy.😉
Ha! Me too, with uneven results on some days if you ask my kids. I don't know, there's just something exceptionally cringeworthy about older gentlemen in the crowd behaving like that. We all get frustrated / angry watching football, but to continually single players out for whole games is a bit sad.
Post by: dutchvilla on December 19, 2023, 02:56:05 PM
theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2023/dec/19/the-100-best-male-footballers-in-the-world-2023
Post by: Mellin on December 19, 2023, 04:04:38 PM
Post by: Rigadon on December 19, 2023, 06:42:54 PM
Won't be the last either. Emi will score highly again. Douglas Luiz probably in there too.
McGinn deserves to be in there I think, but probably won't. Didn't think I'd be saying that 18 months ago.
Post by: Dogtanian on December 20, 2023, 09:59:52 AM
He'll also be the first Englishman since Robbie Fowler to do it in his first four seasons in the Premier League.
https://theathletic.com/5143240/2023/12/20/ollie-watkins-second-best-striker-premier-league/ (https://theathletic.com/5143240/2023/12/20/ollie-watkins-second-best-striker-premier-league/)
Post by: Risso on December 20, 2023, 10:17:05 AM
According to this article in the Athletic, one more goal makes Ollie the first Villa player to get to double figures in four top-flight seasons in a row since Peter Withe.
He'll also be the first Englishman since Robbie Fowler to do it in his first four seasons in the Premier League.
https://theathletic.com/5143240/2023/12/20/ollie-watkins-second-best-striker-premier-league/ (https://theathletic.com/5143240/2023/12/20/ollie-watkins-second-best-striker-premier-league/)
Not to take anything away from Ollie, but I have to say that on the whole those are fairly meaningless stats, because you've got the likes of Harry Kane who was introduced sparingly in his first year or two as a kid in the Premier League, but who then went on to average 20+ goals a season for the next 9 or 10 years. Same sort of thing with Wayne Rooney and Alan Shearer.
Post by: Somniloquism on December 20, 2023, 10:39:24 AM
According to this article in the Athletic, one more goal makes Ollie the first Villa player to get to double figures in four top-flight seasons in a row since Peter Withe.
He'll also be the first Englishman since Robbie Fowler to do it in his first four seasons in the Premier League.
https://theathletic.com/5143240/2023/12/20/ollie-watkins-second-best-striker-premier-league/ (https://theathletic.com/5143240/2023/12/20/ollie-watkins-second-best-striker-premier-league/)
Not to take anything away from Ollie, but I have to say that on the whole those are fairly meaningless stats, because you've got the likes of Harry Kane who was introduced sparingly in his first year or two as a kid in the Premier League, but who then went on to average 20+ goals a season for the next 9 or 10 years. Same sort of thing with Wayne Rooney and Alan Shearer.
Alan Shearer did do it in his first four premier seasons as his formative years was before football was invented but Fowler came after.
Rooney did appear in 33 and 34 games in his first two seasons, starting 14 in that first season.
Post by: Dogtanian on December 20, 2023, 10:44:55 AM
Post by: baddowvillans on December 20, 2023, 01:36:09 PM
The big disappointment for me is with Frank. Ollie considered him a friend and so went to him to explain his actions. Frank could have made a stand about inappropriate abuse ut he has chosen to remain silent weak and dishonest.
Post by: Dave on December 20, 2023, 01:55:40 PM
The big disappointment for me is with Frank. Ollie considered him a friend and so went to him to explain his actions. Frank could have made a stand about inappropriate abuse ut he has chosen to remain silent weak and dishonest.
With respect, this also feels a bit precious. Crowd gives player stick. Player scores and gives some back. Tale as old as time.
Don't really think anyone needs to clutch their pearls and nobody needs to make a stand, justify, condemn etc. It's all fine.
Post by: AV84 on December 20, 2023, 02:06:03 PM
Post by: Ads on December 20, 2023, 02:16:32 PM
No mark gimps who think they're zainy/whacky fun time "guys" here to upset to big boys. In reality they're a reincarnation of Stoke and will soon be relegated back into oblivion with other none entities like Swansea, Swindon and whoever the fuck cares.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on December 20, 2023, 02:18:49 PM
The big disappointment for me is with Frank. Ollie considered him a friend and so went to him to explain his actions. Frank could have made a stand about inappropriate abuse ut he has chosen to remain silent weak and dishonest.
With respect, this also feels a bit precious. Crowd gives player stick. Player scores and gives some back. Tale as old as time.
Don't really think anyone needs to clutch their pearls and nobody needs to make a stand, justify, condemn etc. It's all fine.
That's my take too.
Post by: Risso on December 20, 2023, 02:26:15 PM
Post by: Drummond on December 20, 2023, 02:28:15 PM
Which is why I thought getting the police involved was potentially a bit much.
Yep, it did seem a bit OTT, but then we don't know exactly what was said.
Post by: Dave on December 20, 2023, 02:28:34 PM
Which is why I thought getting the police involved was potentially a bit much.
Very much so.
Post by: OCD on December 20, 2023, 02:31:45 PM
Which is why I thought getting the police involved was potentially a bit much.
Was it reported to the police or did the police pick up on the abuse and make enquiries to the clubs?
Post by: AV84 on December 20, 2023, 02:42:12 PM
Which is why I thought getting the police involved was potentially a bit much.
Was it reported to the police or did the police pick up on the abuse and make enquiries to the clubs?
I'm pretty sure the club released a statement shortly after the game ended saying they'd been in contact with the police. That may have been someone jumping the gun a bit and assuming it warranted contacting the police, or maybe they knew exactly what was said and it is a police matter. But in answer to your question, I'm pretty sure the club reported it.
Post by: algy on December 20, 2023, 03:34:40 PM
Yeah - if it was a case of people exchanging 'wankers' then I tend to agree with Dave, it's a bit of nothing. However, Ollie's reaction and the police getting involved makes me think it might be a bit more than that. Really depends on what was saidWhich is why I thought getting the police involved was potentially a bit much.
Yep, it did seem a bit OTT, but then we don't know exactly what was said.
Post by: Risso on December 20, 2023, 03:46:37 PM
Post by: baddowvillans on December 20, 2023, 03:58:18 PM
The big disappointment for me is with Frank. Ollie considered him a friend and so went to him to explain his actions. Frank could have made a stand about inappropriate abuse ut he has chosen to remain silent weak and dishonest.
With respect, this also feels a bit precious. Crowd gives player stick. Player scores and gives some back. Tale as old as time.
Don't really think anyone needs to clutch their pearls and nobody needs to make a stand, justify, condemn etc. It's all fine.
Post by: Olneythelonely on December 20, 2023, 03:59:04 PM
Ollie has said it wasn't racist. So if it was just various variations of "you're shit" then plod doesn't need to be involved, surely?
There’s a whole load of stuff in between racism and saying “you’re shit”.
I do think it’s strange that the police are involved though.
Post by: paul_e on December 20, 2023, 04:51:31 PM
Ollie has said it wasn't racist. So if it was just various variations of "you're shit" then plod doesn't need to be involved, surely?
There’s a whole load of stuff in between racism and saying “you’re shit”.
I do think it’s strange that the police are involved though.
It was comments about his family.
Post by: baddowvillans on December 20, 2023, 05:55:10 PM
Post by: Risso on December 20, 2023, 06:19:00 PM
Post by: PeterWithe on December 20, 2023, 07:43:02 PM
Post by: paul_e on December 20, 2023, 07:45:43 PM
Which despite being very unpleasant, probably don't cross the line into illegality.
No, but pathetic from what looked to be a middle aged man, and worthy of the response it got.
Post by: Ian. on December 20, 2023, 07:53:46 PM
Which despite being very unpleasant, probably don't cross the line into illegality.
No, but pathetic from what looked to be a middle aged man, and worthy of the response it got.
The camera at one point went directly to a man who looked in his 60’s sticking his fingers up and shouting another next to him who looked proper guilty waiting for the Earth to swallow him up and very quiet. I couldn’t work out if it was either of those two?
Post by: frankmosswasmyuncle on December 20, 2023, 08:25:04 PM
The suggestion on the Brentford site was that the comments were about his mother which I guess he thought was unnecessary (don't worry my pearls are nowhere near)So, basically, Ollie is saying "yes, I can take the personal abuse, but not the stuff about my mother...not once, perhaps in a 'I've just thought of an insult' kind of way, but 'I've thought about this, planned it, it's a fucking horrible thing to say to anyone, but I'm still gonna do it anyway 'cas I've paid my £30 and I'm entitled' and I'm going to aim these comments at an ex Brentford player" kind of way, but 4 or 5 times!!!
Whovever he is, he sounds like a complete twat and needs dealing with, appropriately.
If he was a saft 15 year old then you'd put it down to in experience....but this guy is a grown up FFS!
Post by: baddowvillans on December 20, 2023, 09:58:54 PM
Post by: Smithy on December 21, 2023, 12:36:55 PM
The suggestion on the Brentford site was that the comments were about his mother which I guess he thought was unnecessary (don't worry my pearls are nowhere near)
It's strange, because footballers must hear all sorts, including about loved ones, all the time. I distinctly remember hearing an almost entire Chelsea stadium singing to Beckham asking if his missus takes it up the arse.
It's out of character for Ollie, so it must have been bad, but short of theats of violence against his family type stuff, I really don't see how it's a police matter? It's certainly put a target on his back for every stadium he visits from here on in. I imagine the fans at Old Trafford will be hoping to get particularly creative ahead of our visit there.
Post by: Somniloquism on December 21, 2023, 12:39:23 PM
Post by: paul_e on December 21, 2023, 12:39:45 PM
The suggestion on the Brentford site was that the comments were about his mother which I guess he thought was unnecessary (don't worry my pearls are nowhere near)
It's strange, because footballers must hear all sorts, including about loved ones, all the time. I distinctly remember hearing an almost entire Chelsea stadium singing to Beckham asking if his missus takes it up the arse.
It's out of character for Ollie, so it must have been bad, but short of theats of violence against his family type stuff, I really don't see how it's a police matter? It's certainly put a target on his back for every stadium he visits from here on in. I imagine the fans at Old Trafford will be hoping to get particularly creative ahead of our visit there.
I suspect it's upset him here because since he left he's been nothing but respectful to them and saw himself on friendly terms with the club. That isn't the case at anywhere else he's going to play so I doubt it'll happen again.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 30, 2023, 06:38:46 PM
Post by: pablo_picasso on December 30, 2023, 06:58:15 PM
He is having a great season so far...
Post by: Olof's Beard on December 30, 2023, 06:59:10 PM
I am sure he is disappointed that he has been stuck on 9 league goals for three games. But his all round contribution has been brilliant.
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on December 30, 2023, 07:39:00 PM
A feat equalled only by Benteke, Carew, Yorke, Saunders, Hateley, Hitchens, Dixon, Ford, Broome.
Only Hampton (6 seasons before WW1) and Devey (4 seasons in the 1890s) are better.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Aston_Villa_F.C._seasons#:~:text=Seasons%20%20%20%20Season%20%20%20,%20%2051%20%2025%20more%20rows%20
Post by: paul_e on December 30, 2023, 07:50:48 PM
Most assists in the league too and today's were both excellent. He got his head up and made the right choice.
I am sure he is disappointed that he has been stuck on 9 league goals for three games. But his all round contribution has been brilliant.
The run for the diaby goal was perfection, tore them apart and meant he had all the time in the world to pick out the pass for a tap in. Exceptional goal.
Post by: DrGonzo on December 30, 2023, 10:48:06 PM
Post by: adrenachrome on December 30, 2023, 11:54:41 PM
Most assists in the league too and today's were both excellent. He got his head up and made the right choice.
I am sure he is disappointed that he has been stuck on 9 league goals for three games. But his all round contribution has been brilliant.
He's good. The real deal.
Dean Smith was the co-commentator on R5 Live today, and he gave some great insights into Ollie's development.
Post by: rooboy316 on December 31, 2023, 03:35:18 AM
Most assists in the league too and today's were both excellent. He got his head up and made the right choice.
I am sure he is disappointed that he has been stuck on 9 league goals for three games. But his all round contribution has been brilliant.
He's good. The real deal.
Dean Smith was the co-commentator on R5 Live today, and he gave some great insights into Ollie's development.
Curious to know more about what he said?
Post by: Dante Lavelli on December 31, 2023, 04:29:52 AM
The fact that he’s getting work and recognition from our up tick in form is pleasing to see and justified (it’s still his spine of the team).
Largely thanks to Emery his reputation is being rebuilt and he should land a decent job soon if he wants one.
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 31, 2023, 05:36:14 AM
Stan Collymore generally talked bollocks on my stream but he did take time say what a great guy Smith is when they showed him on the coverage.
The fact that he’s getting work and recognition from our up tick in form is pleasing to see and justified (it’s still his spine of the team).
Largely thanks to Emery his reputation is being rebuilt and he should land a decent job soon if he wants one.
He is the new manager of Charlotte FC in MLS
Post by: darren woolley on December 31, 2023, 06:10:32 PM
Post by: pablo_picasso on December 31, 2023, 06:54:22 PM
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1741464474484130044?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Post by: Percy McCarthy on December 31, 2023, 06:57:04 PM
Watkins goals this season...
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1741464474484130044?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
This year.
Post by: pablo_picasso on December 31, 2023, 06:57:52 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 31, 2023, 07:12:42 PM
Post by: Ian. on December 31, 2023, 07:25:46 PM
I love how Emery has come in, not fallen out with anyone and all our squad have taken on what he has installed and all have improved so that they are quite unrecognisable from how they were under Gerrard.
How many times has a new manager come in and we talk about transition, or players not fitting it, or he needs to build his own squad?
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 31, 2023, 11:17:21 PM
Happy New Year to you and all the H&V family. To sum up 2023, Big Chris from Lock, Stock.. said it best, "it's been emotional". 2024? Bring it on!
Post by: LeeB on January 01, 2024, 10:08:45 AM
Nice. I'd love to see a showreel of his assists as two really stand out; yesterday for Diaby - superb awareness and a sliderule pass, he knew exactly what he was doing. The other, my favourite, was the header to keep the ball in play, heading it back for Ramsey(?) to score.
Against Newcastle, made better by the violence and conviction of Ramsey’s strike.
Christ we scored some brilliant goals last year.
Post by: AV84 on January 01, 2024, 10:54:37 AM
Christ we scored some brilliant goals last year.
There's a video up of all our goals in 2023, and there's 99 of them. I blame Ollie for one of his missed sitters for it not being a lovely round 100.
Post by: LeeB on January 01, 2024, 02:01:14 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/DbGs7FQ/download-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DbGs7FQ)
Post by: KevinGage on January 01, 2024, 02:06:20 PM
I love how Emery has come in, not fallen out with anyone and all our squad have taken on what he has installed and all have improved so that they are quite unrecognisable from how they were under Gerrard.
How many times has a new manager come in and we talk about transition, or players not fitting it, or he needs to build his own squad?
That's true. He certainly doesn't bleat to the media about players not being good enough and all the rest of it.
But both SJM and Cash at the weekend said he has told the group to do things exactly how he wants it or they won't be here. There's a ruthlessness to him as well.
Post by: LeeB on January 01, 2024, 02:10:00 PM
Post by: Ian. on January 01, 2024, 05:40:26 PM
Ian, one additional point and a massive one; Unai risked/bet the farm on Watkins. It was a massive gamble to bet on a striker that was such a poor finisher whilst at the same time selling Ings, your top goalscorer. Unai obviously saw something he could work with other than Watkins' pressing and chasing, developing him into a better player. That takes balls of steel. If Watkins had failed so would have Unai. That said I really hope we bring in serious competition for Watkins this window. My guess is we'll either find a better finisher or a player that provides more assists. I'm pretty damn certain we won't find both.
Happy New Year to you and all the H&V family. To sum up 2023, Big Chris from Lock, Stock.. said it best, "it's been emotional". 2024? Bring it on!
I missed this reply. Yes, you’re right and so is Kevin Gage, our manager is pretty ruthless and has balls of steel. It was a huge gamble. Quite and few, or actually all of us presumed selling Ings meant a replacement was incoming.
What a year and happy new year to you and all too.
Let’s hope 2024 is as successful as the last as that was outstanding. Can I wish for a trophy though? That would be nice!
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 01, 2024, 05:41:27 PM
It's an under valued aspect of his management, creating a culture without excuses, managing people and resources effectively and getting a consistent buy in from those on the fringes as a result.want the first thing he said to the players” I am not here to waste my time”
Post by: Dave on January 01, 2024, 05:58:48 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/DbGs7FQ/download-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DbGs7FQ)
The strangest thing about that is realising that Danny Ings scored a goal for us in 2023.
As much a jolt from another era as if Tommy Johnson had popped up on there.
Post by: Toronto Villa on January 01, 2024, 09:35:33 PM
🙄
Post by: Bad English on January 01, 2024, 09:51:15 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/dM5QBVJ/scorchio.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Pj65xPz)
(https://i.ibb.co/DbGs7FQ/download-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DbGs7FQ)
Post by: Footy-Vill on January 30, 2024, 06:54:40 PM
So he's scored both times he's been up against them. So we can expect Watkins to score at least one tonight.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on January 30, 2024, 07:37:34 PM
In two home games he's played against Newcastle in the Premier League he's scored total of 3 goals.
So he's scored both times he's been up against them. So we can expect Watkins to score at least one tonight.
I hope you're right, and welcome back!
Post by: Footy-Vill on January 30, 2024, 07:45:38 PM
In two home games he's played against Newcastle in the Premier League he's scored total of 3 goals.
So he's scored both times he's been up against them. So we can expect Watkins to score at least one tonight.
I hope you're right, and welcome back!
Let's hope so . New Year wishes to you!
Let's enjoy the match!
Come on Watkins!
Post by: LeeB on January 30, 2024, 09:10:48 PM
Post by: Risso on January 30, 2024, 09:16:04 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on January 30, 2024, 09:47:37 PM
Look what you've caused you bloody JonahWatkins scored as I suspected!!
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 30, 2024, 09:47:55 PM
Thank god we didn’t buy another striker in case it upset Ollie. These 20 goals are taking their time.
Getting closer though
Post by: Footy-Vill on January 30, 2024, 09:48:35 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on January 30, 2024, 09:49:04 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on January 30, 2024, 10:34:19 PM
50 th goal tonight and could have had a hat trick another night!
He comes away with some credit.
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 30, 2024, 11:00:52 PM
Needs to move and offer himself more.
Post by: Risso on January 30, 2024, 11:04:36 PM
Post by: aldridgeboy on January 30, 2024, 11:16:55 PM
Post by: eamonn on January 30, 2024, 11:22:34 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on January 31, 2024, 01:47:47 AM
He seemed a different player and much more of a threat with Bailey next to him than Diaby.
Diaby twice in the first half managed to put two crosses into the 6 yard box but Watkins was nowhere to be found, hiding behind the Saudi defenders, marking himself out of the game. There was nobody else joining with the attack so the were both outnumbered and neither had the intelligence to move and make themselves mobile. Not for the first time this month either.
Other than that, neither looked like they'd ever previously played together. A partnership made in hell.
Post by: sid1964 on January 31, 2024, 06:19:33 AM
Post by: Smithy on January 31, 2024, 09:06:09 AM
Thought he was poor, got bullied by their centre halves, but there again apart from McGinn so were the rest of the outfield players.
Far from his best game last night, and doesn't seem to striking up any sort of rapport with Diaby, but he was still just three inches from scoring a brace last night, and the disallowed goal was not the finish of a player low on confidence or form. If your strikers are still scoring even when not playing that well, then the issues are probably elsewhere.
Post by: chrisw1 on January 31, 2024, 09:10:20 AM
Post by: AV82EC on January 31, 2024, 09:14:10 AM
Post by: Paul.S on January 31, 2024, 12:32:12 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on February 03, 2024, 02:48:37 PM
1. Salah 22
2. Haaland and Watkins 18
Post by: Tony Daleys Shorts on February 03, 2024, 05:21:58 PM
Only two other English players have scored 10 goals or more in their first 4 seasons in the top flight in recent times.
Fowler and Shearer.
Post by: N'ZMAV on February 03, 2024, 05:23:37 PM
stats say otherwise....Thought he was poor, got bullied by their centre halves, but there again apart from McGinn so were the rest of the outfield players.
Far from his best game last night, and doesn't seem to striking up any sort of rapport with Diaby, but he was still just three inches from scoring a brace last night, and the disallowed goal was not the finish of a player low on confidence or form. If your strikers are still scoring even when not playing that well, then the issues are probably elsewhere.
https://theanalyst.com/eu/2023/11/premier-league-2023-24-deadliest-duos/
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 03, 2024, 07:55:53 PM
Goals + assists leaders this season
1) Salah 22
2) Ollie 21
3) Haaland 18
4) Son 17
Post by: N'ZMAV on February 03, 2024, 08:31:43 PM
Ollie is doing ace
Post by: Footy-Vill on February 03, 2024, 08:36:03 PM
It's 11 goals so far.
I think he'll end up with 21 to 22 Prem goals.
Post by: Olneythelonely on February 03, 2024, 09:50:50 PM
A brilliant centre forward.
Post by: Monty on February 03, 2024, 09:59:34 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/FbTqbK2/GFc-Bkv-TXMAAYSYX.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FbTqbK2)
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 03, 2024, 10:00:44 PM
People critical of him tend to be extremely quiet when he puts in a performance like that.You could also say that all the Ollie fans become noisy when he puts in a performance like that.
A brilliant centre forward.
Why are some people so intent on criticising other Villa fans?
Post by: Dave on February 03, 2024, 10:01:00 PM
Looking back, feels odd that it took him six games to get his first league goal and there were (quiet) murmurs about his poor early season form.
Post by: Olneythelonely on February 03, 2024, 11:01:02 PM
People critical of him tend to be extremely quiet when he puts in a performance like that.You could also say that all the Ollie fans become noisy when he puts in a performance like that.
A brilliant centre forward.
Why are some people so intent on criticising other Villa fans?
Could ask why some people so intent on criticising Villa players?
Presumably we’re all Ollie fans when he puts in a performance like that? I know it’s difficult for people to admit being wrong though. Easier to just wait for him to not score in a game before coming to this thread.
Post by: brontebilly on February 04, 2024, 12:04:37 AM
People critical of him tend to be extremely quiet when he puts in a performance like that.
A brilliant centre forward.
He destroyed them.
Post by: darren woolley on February 04, 2024, 01:44:54 AM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on February 04, 2024, 10:14:21 AM
Could ask why some people so intent on criticising Villa players?
Presumably we’re all Ollie fans when he puts in a performance like that? I know it’s difficult for people to admit being wrong though. Easier to just wait for him to not score in a game before coming to this thread.
Some criticism of Ollie may be warranted, he smiles too much for those of a more miserable persuasion.
Post by: AV82EC on February 04, 2024, 11:21:06 AM
Could ask why some people so intent on criticising Villa players?
Presumably we’re all Ollie fans when he puts in a performance like that? I know it’s difficult for people to admit being wrong though. Easier to just wait for him to not score in a game before coming to this thread.
Some criticism of Ollie may be warranted, he smiles too much for those of a more miserable persuasion.
I’m sure the Sheff U kop was delighted with his smile at the corner flag after the 2nd yesterday.
He’s a quality striker and once he starts scoring can’t seem to stop. He was very good with his back to goal yesterday as well.
Post by: Ads on February 04, 2024, 11:22:34 AM
Post by: AV82EC on February 04, 2024, 11:25:56 AM
How much would it cost to buy Ollie? 10 goals, 10 assists- not many better in the league outside the top 2.
Bidding starts at £100m.
Post by: Ian. on February 04, 2024, 11:27:27 AM
How much would it cost to buy Ollie? 10 goals, 10 assists- not many better in the league outside the top 2.
He’d be more than we could afford and on that note with FFP not many others.
Post by: PaulTheVillan on February 04, 2024, 11:27:57 AM
Post by: Hookeysmith on February 04, 2024, 11:31:38 AM
When he is like this he is almost unplayable.
Bring on the red filth
Post by: Richard on February 04, 2024, 11:39:46 AM
Post by: Risso on February 04, 2024, 11:43:02 AM
Not only that it spun away from goal onto the post, really unlucky but great awareness from SJM to follow up.
It was speed of McGinn following up that surprised me as well, absolute Usain Bolt-standard 10 metre sprint as well.
Post by: amfy on February 04, 2024, 11:44:08 AM
How much would it cost to buy Ollie? 10 goals, 10 assists- not many better in the league outside the top 2.
Didn’t they say that’s the best goal/assist stats in the top 5 leagues in Europe? Never mind outside the top 2 in our league!
Post by: dave shelley on February 04, 2024, 12:15:31 PM
From his/her seat they would have had a great view of the pass from Dougie, which was pure filth by the way, and the sublime finish. Appreciation of a beautiful footballing goal. Sometime you just have to appreciate from the opposition football of that calibre.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 04, 2024, 12:23:34 PM
And it's the first time a Villa player has done it in the PL since Yorke in 95/96.
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 04, 2024, 12:45:37 PM
I criticise when I see fit, I compliment the same.People critical of him tend to be extremely quiet when he puts in a performance like that.You could also say that all the Ollie fans become noisy when he puts in a performance like that.
A brilliant centre forward.
Why are some people so intent on criticising other Villa fans?
Could ask why some people so intent on criticising Villa players?
Presumably we’re all Ollie fans when he puts in a performance like that? I know it’s difficult for people to admit being wrong though. Easier to just wait for him to not score in a game before coming to this thread.
It’s that some take a criticism of a player / manager as a personal criticism which I just don’t get.
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 04, 2024, 01:10:30 PM
Not only that it spun away from goal onto the post, really unlucky but great awareness from SJM to follow up.
It was speed of McGinn following up that surprised me as well, absolute Usain Bolt-standard 10 metre sprint as well.
As impressive as it was, it also highlighted exactly why Sheff Utd are where they are, and why they will go down.
Post by: Olneythelonely on February 04, 2024, 01:30:42 PM
I criticise when I see fit, I compliment the same.People critical of him tend to be extremely quiet when he puts in a performance like that.You could also say that all the Ollie fans become noisy when he puts in a performance like that.
A brilliant centre forward.
Why are some people so intent on criticising other Villa fans?
Could ask why some people so intent on criticising Villa players?
Presumably we’re all Ollie fans when he puts in a performance like that? I know it’s difficult for people to admit being wrong though. Easier to just wait for him to not score in a game before coming to this thread.
It’s that some take a criticism of a player / manager as a personal criticism which I just don’t get.
How good was he yesterday? Brilliant, right?
Post by: aldridgeboy on February 04, 2024, 01:56:03 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on February 04, 2024, 02:00:51 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 04, 2024, 06:31:27 PM
I criticise when I see fit, I compliment the same.
It’s that some take a criticism of a player / manager as a personal criticism which I just don’t get.
How good was he yesterday? Brilliant, right?
I'd say it was his best performance in a Villa shirt. That said, it only took a few minutes of the game for my first "WTF Watkins" as the ball bounced off him. Thereafter he really delivered. His goal was typical Watkins, how many have we seen him scored from that position. Brilliant finish. I'm tempted to say his ball to Moreno was better. The technique to lift the ball was dirty. Again, if a Man City player had played that ball we wouldn't hear the end of it.
Two in two games. He's back where we need him, scoring goals and almost as important, delivering assists. Five goals from five different players is a great place to be and a pain in the arse for opposition teams.
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 04, 2024, 07:01:20 PM
Yes very good, but has not been great for a few weeks now. I am not sure if that is him or because those around him have been below par.I criticise when I see fit, I compliment the same.People critical of him tend to be extremely quiet when he puts in a performance like that.You could also say that all the Ollie fans become noisy when he puts in a performance like that.
A brilliant centre forward.
Why are some people so intent on criticising other Villa fans?
Could ask why some people so intent on criticising Villa players?
Presumably we’re all Ollie fans when he puts in a performance like that? I know it’s difficult for people to admit being wrong though. Easier to just wait for him to not score in a game before coming to this thread.
It’s that some take a criticism of a player / manager as a personal criticism which I just don’t get.
How good was he yesterday? Brilliant, right?
Diaby being the obvious culprit.
Post by: Goldie.7 on February 04, 2024, 11:21:28 PM
Watkins isn't immune from criticism when he has stinkers either. For me, the most impressive part about his form this season are his assist stats. Chris Wood has 8 goals so Ollie's current tally is pretty much around what he should be scoring.
I don't see him scoring 9 in the remaining 15 to get the 20 goal dream but 15 to 17 is very possible.
Post by: Hillbilly on February 04, 2024, 11:42:14 PM
I don't see him scoring 9 in the remaining 15 to get the 20 goal dream but 15 to 17 is very possible.
A hattrick against Man U will get him a lot closer.
Post by: chrisw1 on February 05, 2024, 08:28:07 AM
People critical of him tend to be extremely quiet when he puts in a performance like that.I was pretty critical of him, but not for some time, I felt he used to just miss far too many chances and his first touch was so inconsistent so he wasn't offering much in hold-up either. I'm not going to apologise for that, it's reasonable to get frustrated when your striker misses so many chances.
A brilliant centre forward.
But since Emery has joined his all-round game has improved tremendously, to the extent that I wasn't worried during his recent dry spell at all. I was never really sure if he was the answer for us. Now I think he is. One of the best strikers in the league.
Post by: Clampy on February 05, 2024, 08:38:10 AM
Post by: OCD on February 05, 2024, 10:39:19 AM
Post by: chrisw1 on February 05, 2024, 10:42:27 AM
I think we know now he's a very streaky striker. He'll either go on a hot streak or he'll go a few games without scoring.But when he's not scoring he's still assisting. I think his link-up play has improved massively.
edit - I'm not sure if the stats would bear that out, but my point remains that to me he just seems like a better player even during periods when he's not scoring.
Post by: Somniloquism on February 05, 2024, 10:49:26 AM
Post by: Olneythelonely on February 05, 2024, 01:02:31 PM
Post by: Smithy on February 05, 2024, 03:05:16 PM
It doesn't worry me as much as others when he goes through a dry spell either, mainly because all strikers do. He probably should have a few more goals than he's got and he'll probably tell you that himself but I think he's excellent for us.
Strangely, I think that having never been what you'd call prolific in the premier league, I don't think the odd dry spell would get to him too much, mentally speaking. He's had plenty of them. That's not a criticism, just the fact that he's the sort of striker who IS going to have runs of games without scoring. It's not a crisis, and he knows he'll come good. Imagine if someone like Salah, Kane, or Haaland went 6 games without scoring, it would be a back page full-on crisis. It would be mentioned in every single commentary every game. Ollie is good enough to get 20 goals a season, but not so good that failing to get there is a literal failure. And while he's contributing assists, he's absolutely invaluable to the side and the way we play.
Barring something spectacular, you'd have to think he's also now a shoe-in for the Kane back-up role in the summer.
Post by: Drummond on February 05, 2024, 03:36:23 PM
Post by: Dogtanian on February 05, 2024, 04:00:47 PM
The rate Watkins is scoring goals for us is up there with Benteke. Everyone else with a comparable number of goals took a lot longer to score them all. Here's to many more.
I was looking at our Premier League top scorers list, and it's grim. Of the top 30, 7 are players that have played for us since coming back up. Just shows how few good goal scorers we've actually had in the last thirty years.
Post by: LukeJames on February 05, 2024, 04:08:10 PM
I was doing a quiz at work on this and I was surprised at some of the names on the list. I got 23/25. Missed El-Ghazi and Weimann. How the fuck is Weimann on the list? In my head I thought he had about 5 or 6 maximum.The rate Watkins is scoring goals for us is up there with Benteke. Everyone else with a comparable number of goals took a lot longer to score them all. Here's to many more.
I was looking at our Premier League top scorers list, and it's grim. Of the top 30, 7 are players that have played for us since coming back up. Just shows how few good goal scorers we've actually had in the last thirty years.
Post by: DrGonzo on February 05, 2024, 09:37:03 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on February 06, 2024, 12:14:44 AM
Apologies if already mentioned, but the first Villa player to get double figures for both goals and assists in a season since Yorke in 95/96. He’s doing great work for the team. Thanks man!
There must be a good chance that Bailey will also do the same.
Post by: Dave on February 06, 2024, 07:05:22 AM
Post by: DrGonzo on February 06, 2024, 10:56:30 AM
Post by: Dogtanian on February 06, 2024, 11:14:17 AM
Last season we hit 55, our second highest total... so, we've been shit in front of goal. A fact that is borne out when you look at our top scorers list, which currently requires only 38 PL goals to get in the top ten, despite 29 seasons in it. Five of our top ten have been there since the 90s.
This season we are averaging 2.13 per game, which would put us on course for around 80 goals and a new record. So it isn't surprising that we are starting to break these sorts of records.
Long may it continue!
Post by: Smithy on February 06, 2024, 12:55:26 PM
Since the Premier League reduced to 20 teams, we've averaged 46 goals per season. The high was 71 in 2007-08, and the lowest 27 in 2015-16.
Last season we hit 55, our second highest total... so, we've been shit in front of goal. A fact that is borne out when you look at our top scorers list, which currently requires only 38 PL goals to get in the top ten, despite 29 seasons in it. Five of our top ten have been there since the 90s.
This season we are averaging 2.13 per game, which would put us on course for around 80 goals and a new record. So it isn't surprising that we are starting to break these sorts of records.
Long may it continue!
Interesting that going back at least 10 years, no team scoring 80 goals has ever failed to be in the top four. Sometimes the league winners don't score that many. Leicester won the league scoring just 68.
Post by: eamonn on February 06, 2024, 01:11:19 PM
Post by: Smithy on February 06, 2024, 01:43:10 PM
It's a pity we can't manage the concession benchmark of less than one goal a game conceded. But I'd rather over-score as compensation than a load of one-nillers.
Indeed. The goalie with the most clean sheets so far this season? Jordan Pickford. And I certainly wouldn't swap our results for theirs!
Post by: Dogtanian on February 06, 2024, 02:18:23 PM
Since the Premier League reduced to 20 teams, we've averaged 46 goals per season. The high was 71 in 2007-08, and the lowest 27 in 2015-16.
Last season we hit 55, our second highest total... so, we've been shit in front of goal. A fact that is borne out when you look at our top scorers list, which currently requires only 38 PL goals to get in the top ten, despite 29 seasons in it. Five of our top ten have been there since the 90s.
This season we are averaging 2.13 per game, which would put us on course for around 80 goals and a new record. So it isn't surprising that we are starting to break these sorts of records.
Long may it continue!
Interesting that going back at least 10 years, no team scoring 80 goals has ever failed to be in the top four. Sometimes the league winners don't score that many. Leicester won the league scoring just 68.
Yep, two goals per game is where to be!
Post by: Footy-Vill on February 07, 2024, 05:45:40 PM
I expect Southgate to be going either tonight or Sunday.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on February 07, 2024, 06:28:12 PM
Feeling a Watkins brace tonight.
Hope you mean 2 goals for Ollie, as opposed to another addition to our injury list.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 07, 2024, 06:37:46 PM
Post by: AV84 on February 07, 2024, 06:41:10 PM
23 more goals to match that utter fraud Gabby as all time PL scorer. So I think he will need to stay two more complete seasons to get there. I hope he does.
A couple of more goals this season and then a more consistent one next year and he'll do it, no problem.
Post by: Footy-Vill on February 08, 2024, 08:34:41 PM
However, he has been sent off against them in 20/21 (two yellows) at Villa Park.
His one and only goal came in the league cup away last season.
Post by: LeeB on February 09, 2024, 10:21:28 AM
Watkins has never scored in the Premier League against Manchester United.
However, he has been sent off against them in 20/21 (two yellows) at Villa Park.
His one and only goal came in the league cup away last season.
One of the most ridiculous decisions I've ever seen but probably the third worst in that match.
Only against them could your centre forward get sent off for being fouled by the kepper that was nowhere near the ball.
Post by: Demitri_C on February 11, 2024, 07:44:15 PM
Post by: brontebilly on February 11, 2024, 07:49:54 PM
Whats evident to me is that not having someone to keep ollie on his toes is a big issue as i felt ollie was dire today. His finishing was piss poor
His biggest error in game was being caught for their first goal. Yes he missed big chances but I thought he ran Varane ragged in general play.
Post by: LeonW on February 11, 2024, 07:56:05 PM
Post by: DrGonzo on February 11, 2024, 08:00:41 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on February 11, 2024, 08:04:41 PM
One at start of second half...a elite CF simply has to score it. Good cross from Cash, he's got half a yard on the CB, on his stronger foot and central. Can't just be hitting it straight at Onana given he didn't have to move to stop it.
Post by: Demitri_C on February 11, 2024, 08:10:40 PM
He certainly wasn't "dire today". We do, however, lack a 2nd option for when he isn't on his game or we need a different option in the box, that's certain.
He certainly was. His finishing was poor, wasnt holding the line up. Kept coming in deep and just was not putting enough pressure on their back four.
He is costing us with these misses. He needs real competition up top
Post by: AGRIPPA on February 11, 2024, 10:24:51 PM
He certainly wasn't "dire today". We do, however, lack a 2nd option for when he isn't on his game or we need a different option in the box, that's certain.
He certainly was. His finishing was poor, wasnt holding the line up. Kept coming in deep and just was not putting enough pressure on their back four.
He is costing us with these misses. He needs real competition up top
Where do we find the £80 plus million to buy one?? Because that’s what it would cost to buy a better striker than him
Post by: brontebilly on February 11, 2024, 11:00:35 PM
The first half chance was tricky with Onana flying out at him.
One at start of second half...a elite CF simply has to score it. Good cross from Cash, he's got half a yard on the CB, on his stronger foot and central. Can't just be hitting it straight at Onana given he didn't have to move to stop it.
Haaland misses sitters too...Movement was excellent by Watkins as he beat Varane once again, Onana fortunate it was straight at him. It was just one of those days. Thought his miss in the first half was worse, give Onana credit but a little dink Dwight Yorke style would have finished it.
16 goals and 12 assists in all comps this year, 34 games.
Post by: LeonW on February 12, 2024, 12:36:38 AM
He certainly wasn't "dire today". We do, however, lack a 2nd option for when he isn't on his game or we need a different option in the box, that's certain.
He certainly was. His finishing was poor, wasnt holding the line up. Kept coming in deep and just was not putting enough pressure on their back four.
He is costing us with these misses. He needs real competition up top
Where do we find the £80 plus million to buy one?? Because that’s what it would cost to buy a better striker than him
We need an alternative option. Awoniyi cost Forrest £17m. Schick cost Leverkusen approx £23m. Watkins has become a top class premier league player but he wasn’t when we bought him. The idea we can’t get another very good option who may end up just as good if not better is just nonsense and would be a bad reflection on our recruitment team.
Post by: Demitri_C on February 12, 2024, 07:11:39 AM
He certainly wasn't "dire today". We do, however, lack a 2nd option for when he isn't on his game or we need a different option in the box, that's certain.
He certainly was. His finishing was poor, wasnt holding the line up. Kept coming in deep and just was not putting enough pressure on their back four.
He is costing us with these misses. He needs real competition up top
Where do we find the £80 plus million to buy one?? Because that’s what it would cost to buy a better striker than him
We need an alternative option. Awoniyi cost Forrest £17m. Schick cost Leverkusen approx £23m. Watkins has become a top class premier league player but he wasn’t when we bought him. The idea we can’t get another very good option who may end up just as good if not better is just nonsense and would be a bad reflection on our recruitment team.
I agree leon. The " we need to spend big" isnt necessarily true. I mean that pavlidis chap who plays for AZ looked real good against us and wont cost the world.
There is players out there that wont cost the earth. We done it in the past with benteke.
It needs someone to push ollie so ehen he has poor games he knows his spot could be up for grabs. All the top sides have competition up top
Post by: LeonW on February 12, 2024, 07:15:02 AM
He certainly wasn't "dire today". We do, however, lack a 2nd option for when he isn't on his game or we need a different option in the box, that's certain.
He certainly was. His finishing was poor, wasnt holding the line up. Kept coming in deep and just was not putting enough pressure on their back four.
He is costing us with these misses. He needs real competition up top
Where do we find the £80 plus million to buy one?? Because that’s what it would cost to buy a better striker than him
We need an alternative option. Awoniyi cost Forrest £17m. Schick cost Leverkusen approx £23m. Watkins has become a top class premier league player but he wasn’t when we bought him. The idea we can’t get another very good option who may end up just as good if not better is just nonsense and would be a bad reflection on our recruitment team.
I agree leon. The " we need to spend big" isnt necessarily true. I mean that pavlidis chap who plays for AZ looked real good against us and wont cost the world.
There is players out there that wont cost the earth. We done it in the past with benteke.
It needs someone to push ollie so ehen he has poor games he knows his spot could be up for grabs. All the top sides have competition up top
Or even just a different type of option. We need more variety. I think we will bring someone in this summer. This is where Monchi will earn his money. It’s badly needed though.
Post by: PhilVill on February 12, 2024, 07:19:05 AM
Post by: Demitri_C on February 12, 2024, 09:24:11 AM
He certainly wasn't "dire today". We do, however, lack a 2nd option for when he isn't on his game or we need a different option in the box, that's certain.
He certainly was. His finishing was poor, wasnt holding the line up. Kept coming in deep and just was not putting enough pressure on their back four.
He is costing us with these misses. He needs real competition up top
Where do we find the £80 plus million to buy one?? Because that’s what it would cost to buy a better striker than him
We need an alternative option. Awoniyi cost Forrest £17m. Schick cost Leverkusen approx £23m. Watkins has become a top class premier league player but he wasn’t when we bought him. The idea we can’t get another very good option who may end up just as good if not better is just nonsense and would be a bad reflection on our recruitment team.
I agree leon. The " we need to spend big" isnt necessarily true. I mean that pavlidis chap who plays for AZ looked real good against us and wont cost the world.
There is players out there that wont cost the earth. We done it in the past with benteke.
It needs someone to push ollie so ehen he has poor games he knows his spot could be up for grabs. All the top sides have competition up top
Or even just a different type of option. We need more variety. I think we will bring someone in this summer. This is where Monchi will earn his money. It’s badly needed though.
I think a majority of our budget will go on a striker and a rb in the summer. Rumours were we had tammy lined up in summer before the ACL injury. Wonder if that will still be on the cards? I doubt it after that big injury
Post by: Mister E on February 12, 2024, 09:47:40 AM
He needs to work on his first touch as the ball bounces off him when it's passed to him, he must make it stick. The chance after half time was an absolute sitter, it wasn't a great save, it was a piss poor finish. If Archer comes back next season (highly likely) then we must adopt a way to play with him instead of Watkins so that Watkins knows that he must deliver.Watkins played okay yesterday; his movement was excellent. The 'sitter' (which is how I saw it at the game) was in fact a really good connection on a fast / fizzing cross and the keeper's reactions were far better - seen again - than when I saw it in real time.
Post by: Olneythelonely on February 12, 2024, 10:08:37 AM
He needs to work on his first touch as the ball bounces off him when it's passed to him, he must make it stick. The chance after half time was an absolute sitter, it wasn't a great save, it was a piss poor finish. If Archer comes back next season (highly likely) then we must adopt a way to play with him instead of Watkins so that Watkins knows that he must deliver.
Absolute madness.
Post by: olaftab on February 12, 2024, 03:45:29 PM
Ollie Watkins for Aston Villa in the Premier League 2023-24
Up to 21 Dec Per 90 minutes Since 22 Dec
3.02 Total shots 3.00
18% Shot Conversion % 9.5%
9 Goals 2
8.7 xG 2.7
0.4 xG difference -0.7
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 12, 2024, 03:51:34 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 12, 2024, 10:02:57 PM
Great research, Olaftab. I don't know how you find the time. ;)As you would appreciate and obviously realise I have a full team dedicated to this sort of work. They feed material of interest constantly all day long but I try not to overwhelm the forum with deluge of data driven posts😌
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 12, 2024, 10:30:04 PM
Great research, Olaftab. I don't know how you find the time. ;)As you would appreciate and obviously realise I have a full team dedicated to this sort of work. They feed material of interest constantly all day long but I try not to overwhelm the forum with deluge of data driven posts😌
I'm impressed and there was me thinking it was just a lazy cut and paste job from an earlier link minutes before. ;D
Post by: Mister E on February 13, 2024, 08:50:02 AM
He's fine but does need to deal with this if we are to finish top 4:Unless you're prepared to show the full team data on attacking momentum, chances created, opposition pressing strategies, Watkins assists, etc before and after Xmas, these numbers have limited value, to be honest.
Ollie Watkins for Aston Villa in the Premier League 2023-24
Up to 21 Dec Per 90 minutes Since 22 Dec
3.02 Total shots 3.00
18% Shot Conversion % 9.5%
9 Goals 2
8.7 xG 2.7
0.4 xG difference -0.7
Post by: Olneythelonely on February 17, 2024, 05:31:14 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on February 17, 2024, 05:32:25 PM
Post by: Ian. on February 17, 2024, 05:35:25 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 17, 2024, 07:45:55 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on February 17, 2024, 07:51:09 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on February 17, 2024, 08:16:16 PM
Quote
Watkins stars as Villa produce 'massive reaction'
Watkins was superb at Craven Cottage and has now scored 18 goals in all competitions this season, while his statistics speak for themselves.
His 23 goal involvements in the top flight this season (13 goals and 10 assists in 25 games), is only bettered by Liverpool's Mohamed Salah (24).
And in terms of goal involvements for Villa, only Dwight Yorke (27 in 1995-96) can boast more in a single Premier League campaign.
I think the some other site also had him with the most goals (or involvements at least) away from home this season.
Post by: darren woolley on February 18, 2024, 12:59:22 AM
Post by: Dogtanian on February 18, 2024, 07:05:11 AM
That first one was inch perfect, and the second he hit first time from a position where too often he’s taken an unnecessary touch and lost the chance.
He’s having a great season!
Post by: dcdavecollett on February 18, 2024, 10:19:59 PM
Post by: FatSam on February 24, 2024, 05:38:37 PM
Post by: Paul.S on February 24, 2024, 05:57:18 PM
Post by: Olneythelonely on February 24, 2024, 06:06:28 PM
Post by: Olof's Beard on February 25, 2024, 07:42:30 AM
Let's hope nowt stops Ollie, nobody would deserve it more.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 25, 2024, 08:11:22 AM
Annoying not only for Watkins but also for my FPL team as he's captain :'(
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on February 25, 2024, 09:33:03 AM
Don't think Watkins has been credited with the assist for Bailey's goal. Not sure how as it was clear.
I did. Watching it again this morning and I'm even more convinced he meant it. A brilliant bit of skill and not the dumb Ollie of 6 months ago who would have tried to score himself despite the keeper having it covered. I've noticed his touch especially further out may be dodgy but inside the box he's recently shown a massive improvement. Yesterday was no one-off.
Post by: Dave on February 25, 2024, 10:19:16 AM
A brilliant bit of skill and not the dumb Ollie of 6 months ago who would have tried to score himself despite the keeper having it covered.
Didn't he do pretty much the exact same thing about six months ago for Cash's first away at Burnley?
Post by: Nii Lamptey on February 25, 2024, 11:05:57 AM
- Needs 6 goals from the 12 remaining games to become the first Villa player since Peter Withe to score 20 League goals in a season
- Just 20 league goals shy of 'self-proclaimed Villa Legend' Gabby Agbonlahor's Premier League goals record
Couldn't think of a more honest and commited professional to bestow both honours to. You'd think that if he achieves the first this season, we're nailed on for Champions League football. Keep going Ollie!
Post by: Somniloquism on February 25, 2024, 11:11:58 AM
Don't think Watkins has been credited with the assist for Bailey's goal. Not sure how as it was clear.
Annoying not only for Watkins but also for my FPL team as he's captain :'(
It pinged off him and the keeper, so as it was not a deliberate play to Bailey and they don't officially give it. Not that I agree with the definition. It is the same as if the Watkins had poked it and it hit the post and Bailey followed up. My personal definition should be if the last player to touch it is playing an attacking ball and the next attacking touch is a goal, give the assist even if the goal comes off a defender rebound, post or some other action in the middle. Two defenders touches needed to reset the assist.
Post by: Dogtanian on February 25, 2024, 11:18:44 AM
He's really improved this season under the stewardship of Unai... Not sure if it's been mentioned but he's within touching distance of TWO records now:
- Needs 6 goals from the 12 remaining games to become the first Villa player since Peter Withe to score 20 League goals in a season
- Just 20 league goals shy of 'self-proclaimed Villa Legend' Gabby Agbonlahor's Premier League goals record
Couldn't think of a more honest and commited professional to bestow both honours to. You'd think that if he achieves the first this season, we're nailed on for Champions League football. Keep going Ollie!
If he gets those six Prem goals, he’ll also equal Dwight Yorke’s all time league total for us.
Post by: darren woolley on February 25, 2024, 12:59:29 PM
Post by: ez on February 25, 2024, 02:17:21 PM
Post by: OCD on February 26, 2024, 10:56:38 AM
Post by: Dogtanian on February 26, 2024, 11:00:32 AM
I don't think it's been credited as an assist, has it?
Nope. I thought it should have been, but watched the highlights on Villa TV yesterday he does hit it against the keeper, so I guess they're considering it as a shot.
Post by: paul_e on February 26, 2024, 12:36:19 PM
I don't think it's been credited as an assist, has it?
Nope. I thought it should have been, but watched the highlights on Villa TV yesterday he does hit it against the keeper, so I guess they're considering it as a shot.
I think this is where the definition of what as assist is can be a bit 'mucky'.
We know Watkins was trying to chip the keeper but was it meant to be a pass or a shot and does it matter?
If it was a shot, the keeper hadn't touched it and Bailey tapped it in to be sure it would be an assist? - Yes (for me)
On the other hand if the cross from Bailey for the first goal had clipped the defender before Watkins finished would that stop Bailey getting the assist? - No
How about if a player takes a shot that is going wide but another player deflects it in, is that an assist? - Yes
If a keeper saves a shot but spills the bal lto the feet of a follow-up attacker to score does the original shot count as an assist? - No
I've given my thoughts on each but it shows it's a messy situation so to state it more clearly; does the intent of the assist maker matter or should it be simplified to be something like "any deliberate action which directly leads to a scoring chance for the next player to get the ball"?
Of course there's also the debate of whether it matters or not...
Post by: Dogtanian on February 29, 2024, 11:15:49 AM
https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2024/february/29/watkins-nominated-for-pl-player-of-the-month-award-/ (https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2024/february/29/watkins-nominated-for-pl-player-of-the-month-award-/)
Keep it up, Ollie! 8)
Post by: chrisw1 on February 29, 2024, 11:23:48 AM
There's an Athletic piece on players of the season. Jacob penned the case for Ollie:
As the figurehead of Aston Villa, the side threatening to upset the apple cart and break the ceiling of the top four, Ollie Watkins’ case for Premier League’s player of the year is increasingly robust.
Watkins’ is a player transformed under Unai Emery. Told to stay primarily between the posts and avoid going out wide, Emery showed the 28-year-old clips of Edinson Cavani and Carlos Bacca, strikers he had previously worked with, and explained the key movements needed to increase his goal output.
The results have been striking: only two other Villa players — Gabriel Agbonlahor (74) and Dwight Yorke (60) — have scored more than 50 Premier League goals. It is only Yorke (27) who had been involved in more Premier League goals than Watkins in a single season. With a third of the season left, Watkins has been involved in 24 goals, scoring 11 and assisting 10 — the joint most of any player in the league, alongside Kieran Trippier and Pascal Gross.
Since November 2022, Emery’s first game in charge, only Erling Haaland and Mohamed Salah have scored more Premier League goals than Watkins. In that time, he ranks in the top five per cent of forwards from Europe’s top five leagues for goal-creating actions (0.64 per 90 minutes).
The England international has scored 53 of his 54 goals in the Premier League from inside the penalty area, including 14 out of 14 this season, as illustrated below. Only Haaland and Dominic Solanke have generated a higher non-penalty xG this season.
(https://i.ibb.co/MpCgDxZ/ollie-watkins-2023-24-all-shots-1920x2048.png) (https://ibb.co/MpCgDxZ)
Watkins is now a bona fide scorer, transformed under Emery and with a robust claim to be the second-best No 9 in the league, behind Haaland. On the evidence of this season, he could well be the most important.
Jacob Tanswell
Post by: Dave on February 29, 2024, 11:23:56 AM
Nominated for Premier League Player of the Month;
https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2024/february/29/watkins-nominated-for-pl-player-of-the-month-award-/ (https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2024/february/29/watkins-nominated-for-pl-player-of-the-month-award-/)
Keep it up, Ollie! 8)
Pretty decent chance of winning it as well - although I reckon Saka will probably get it given Arsenal won every game and we didn't.
Post by: LeeB on February 29, 2024, 11:29:16 AM
Post by: Risso on February 29, 2024, 11:44:52 AM
Nominated for Premier League Player of the Month;
https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2024/february/29/watkins-nominated-for-pl-player-of-the-month-award-/ (https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2024/february/29/watkins-nominated-for-pl-player-of-the-month-award-/)
Keep it up, Ollie! 8)
Pretty decent chance of winning it as well - although I reckon Saka will probably get it given Arsenal won every game and we didn't.
Plus it's partly voted for by Joe Public.
Post by: Rigadon on February 29, 2024, 11:48:45 AM
And of course everybody loves Saka, except for everyone that hates him for being a diving little shit.
Yes! What is it with the Saka love in. He winds me right up.
Post by: pablo_picasso on February 29, 2024, 11:57:54 AM
Jacob Tanswell does it again.
There's an Athletic piece on players of the season. Jacob penned the case for Ollie:
As the figurehead of Aston Villa, the side threatening to upset the apple cart and break the ceiling of the top four, Ollie Watkins’ case for Premier League’s player of the year is increasingly robust.
Watkins’ is a player transformed under Unai Emery. Told to stay primarily between the posts and avoid going out wide, Emery showed the 28-year-old clips of Edinson Cavani and Carlos Bacca, strikers he had previously worked with, and explained the key movements needed to increase his goal output.
The results have been striking: only two other Villa players — Gabriel Agbonlahor (74) and Dwight Yorke (60) — have scored more than 50 Premier League goals. It is only Yorke (27) who had been involved in more Premier League goals than Watkins in a single season. With a third of the season left, Watkins has been involved in 24 goals, scoring 11 and assisting 10 — the joint most of any player in the league, alongside Kieran Trippier and Pascal Gross.
Since November 2022, Emery’s first game in charge, only Erling Haaland and Mohamed Salah have scored more Premier League goals than Watkins. In that time, he ranks in the top five per cent of forwards from Europe’s top five leagues for goal-creating actions (0.64 per 90 minutes).
The England international has scored 53 of his 54 goals in the Premier League from inside the penalty area, including 14 out of 14 this season, as illustrated below. Only Haaland and Dominic Solanke have generated a higher non-penalty xG this season.
(https://i.ibb.co/MpCgDxZ/ollie-watkins-2023-24-all-shots-1920x2048.png) (https://ibb.co/MpCgDxZ)
Watkins is now a bona fide scorer, transformed under Emery and with a robust claim to be the second-best No 9 in the league, behind Haaland. On the evidence of this season, he could well be the most important.
Jacob Tanswell
Good article.
The only thing that I don't like about it is the narrative that football started when the Premier League started & only counting goals from Agbonlahor & Yorke from that time.
It is incredibly disrespectful to players pre-Premier League.
Post by: brontebilly on February 29, 2024, 12:02:46 PM
And of course everybody loves Saka, except for everyone that hates him for being a diving little shit.
Yes! What is it with the Saka love in. He winds me right up.
He's a brilliant player? Was quiet at Villa Park from memory, mind
Post by: Dave on February 29, 2024, 12:04:04 PM
Nominated for Premier League Player of the Month;
https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2024/february/29/watkins-nominated-for-pl-player-of-the-month-award-/ (https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2024/february/29/watkins-nominated-for-pl-player-of-the-month-award-/)
Keep it up, Ollie! 8)
Pretty decent chance of winning it as well - although I reckon Saka will probably get it given Arsenal won every game and we didn't.
Plus it's partly voted for by Joe Public.
Not to the extent that it would make a meaningful difference I think. Apparently the public vote accounts for around 10% of the decision. And I'd wager you might well have as many fans of rival teams voting against the name from the "bigger" team as you have fans voting for them.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 29, 2024, 12:07:42 PM
Post by: chrisw1 on February 29, 2024, 12:14:01 PM
Post by: danno on February 29, 2024, 12:14:22 PM
I don't understand the beef with Saka. All ours dive. He seems like a nice lad (and brilliant player) to me, apart from a perplexing belief in God.
You understand it perfectly well, he’s not our player, he’s quite good, so we don’t like him.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 29, 2024, 12:15:37 PM
I don't understand the beef with Saka. All ours dive. He seems like a nice lad (and brilliant player) to me, apart from a perplexing belief in God.
You understand it perfectly well, he’s not our player, he’s quite good, so we don’t like him.
Fair enough. I don't think like that, but crack on!
Post by: danno on February 29, 2024, 12:19:03 PM
I don't understand the beef with Saka. All ours dive. He seems like a nice lad (and brilliant player) to me, apart from a perplexing belief in God.
You understand it perfectly well, he’s not our player, he’s quite good, so we don’t like him.
Fair enough. I don't think like that, but crack on!
If you can think of a better explanation then by all means the floor is yours. What else is it going to be?
Post by: chrisw1 on February 29, 2024, 12:20:40 PM
The only players I really tend to dislike are petulant players, blatant cheats and any that have specifically been disrespectful to Villa.
And any who play for Man Utd of course, but I assume that that goes without saying.
Post by: enigma on February 29, 2024, 12:24:14 PM
Lots of players tick those boxes but don't get the hate. He seems a totally innoffensive player to me. And one of England's genuine world class players for what it's worth.I don't understand the beef with Saka. All ours dive. He seems like a nice lad (and brilliant player) to me, apart from a perplexing belief in God.
You understand it perfectly well, he’s not our player, he’s quite good, so we don’t like him.
Fair enough. I don't think like that, but crack on!
If you can think of a better explanation then by all means the floor is yours. What else is it going to be?
Post by: Risso on February 29, 2024, 12:24:29 PM
I don't understand the beef with Saka. All ours dive. He seems like a nice lad (and brilliant player) to me, apart from a perplexing belief in God.
You understand it perfectly well, he’s not our player, he’s quite good, so we don’t like him.
Saka dives more than any player I've seen since Grealish. It used to annoy me when Joe did it because it would quite often stop good forward momentum. The move for the goal we scored against Forest with everybody touching it would probably have got to Grealish and stopped. Diving doubly annoys me when an opposition player does it, and that's doubled again when a player does it with the regularity that Saka does.
Post by: Clampy on February 29, 2024, 01:12:01 PM
Post by: Risso on February 29, 2024, 01:25:12 PM
Another Saka fan here. He goes down a bit but it's the blatant cheating from the likes of Fernandes which I find more annoying.
Diving is blatant cheating. Saka's had some shockers, like this:
https://twitter.com/reIegation_/status/1585722838010716160 (https://twitter.com/reIegation_/status/1585722838010716160)
Post by: LeeB on February 29, 2024, 01:54:51 PM
Post by: pablo_picasso on February 29, 2024, 02:07:06 PM
And I don't like cheats.
Post by: Chap on February 29, 2024, 05:44:55 PM
Did I lip read the ref correctly, “Get up you cheating cnut”?Another Saka fan here. He goes down a bit but it's the blatant cheating from the likes of Fernandes which I find more annoying.
Diving is blatant cheating. Saka's had some shockers, like this:
https://twitter.com/reIegation_/status/1585722838010716160 (https://twitter.com/reIegation_/status/1585722838010716160)
Post by: Ian. on February 29, 2024, 05:52:08 PM
Post by: Hillbilly on March 01, 2024, 02:32:43 AM
Post by: Dogtanian on March 01, 2024, 01:18:47 PM
https://www.thepfa.com/fpotm/premier-league (https://www.thepfa.com/fpotm/premier-league)
You can vote for him above, if you are a fan.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 02, 2024, 01:20:20 PM
There are 15 games left and Watkins wants to score in every one. He said it himself in an interview after the Sheffield Utd game.Premier League:
It's 11 goals so far.
I think he'll end up with 21 to 22 Prem goals.
There are 12 games left and he's scored 14 goals.
I think he can make the target providing he scores a brace or hat trick.
I can see one in two for him so that's 6 goals and at brace or hat trick by my maths means he makes over 20+ goal threshold.
Watkins wants to score every game and if that happend a goal a game it would be 26 goals.
I think he'll be hard pushed to reach 25 this season
All Comps
Watkins also targeted 20 goals and one more today will take him over twenty for season all comps. That's likely to happen sooner rather than later and great effort by him
Think could be looking at 30+ for season.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 02, 2024, 02:18:47 PM
A. Premier League
B. All Comps. Total
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 02, 2024, 04:59:46 PM
I suspect a brace at least for Watkins he's had at least 2+ shots on target a game in his last 5 games
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 02, 2024, 06:15:27 PM
V Luton
I suspect a brace at least for Watkins he's had at least 2+ shots on target a game in his last 5 games
Now that's insight!!
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 02, 2024, 06:41:52 PM
Excellent Watkins let's have a hat trick- he's due one !
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 02, 2024, 09:08:21 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 02, 2024, 09:11:48 PM
https://twitter.com/paddypower/status/1763997759550390715Sky Sports Dave Jones said to Hendrie after the game a no brainer that ex Aston Villa manager as England coach Watkins will be selected for Euros.
Hendrie and Redknapp both think Watkins will be definitely going to the Euros for England.
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 02, 2024, 09:16:05 PM
Watkins" I believe I can score every game and if I don't I believe I can score in the next one"
And that's exactly my belief and why I say he will score each game!
Always interviews well and speaks honestly and with knowledge.
He acknowledged his poor hold-up play in the second half.
He also mentioned how the midfield was too far away from him in the second half and that when we are two or three goals up, we get comfortable and too relaxed, and something needs to be addressed.
Post by: Dave on March 02, 2024, 09:59:48 PM
Don't think a Villa player has won any of them since McGrath won the PFA one in 92-93.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 02, 2024, 10:01:24 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 02, 2024, 11:49:51 PM
Reckon if he keeps this form up, he's in with a shout of various player of the season awards.Two of the very best -Young and Milner have.won PFA young player of the year.
Don't think a Villa player has won any of them since McGrath won the PFA one in 92-93.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 02, 2024, 11:59:56 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on March 03, 2024, 12:01:40 AM
Post by: Mellin on March 03, 2024, 01:14:46 AM
Well done Ollie. High praise from a man who knows a thing or too about the role. Shearer gushing also.
Post by: Rory on March 03, 2024, 02:34:53 AM
Ollie stretching the defence, providing extra space for Kane and creating chances for midfielders, as well as scoring his own goals, could be lethal.
Wankers jumping on bus stops, cap-wearing ****** taking over bars ordering their Carlings and Stellas, every beer garden becoming a coke convention.
Hopefully Ollie stays glorious and ours alone.
Edit: I don't support Ireland.
Post by: darren woolley on March 03, 2024, 02:38:26 AM
Post by: john e on March 03, 2024, 08:22:10 AM
Looks like I better get the salt and vinegar ready
Post by: Somniloquism on March 03, 2024, 08:25:28 AM
Interesting point Lineker made about how now if Kane was injured we have someone who wouldn't just fill a gap, but add something Kane doesn't have. I haven't heard anyone speak about an English centre forward like that for years.
Well done Ollie. High praise from a man who knows a thing or too about the role. Shearer gushing also.
Although with the England team chosen specifically to play with Kane, I doubt they have the manager or the skills to be able to play with Ollie.
Post by: Dante Lavelli on March 03, 2024, 08:42:51 AM
In Emery he’s found the perfect coach and visa versa.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 03, 2024, 08:59:24 AM
Yeah, I really hope Ollie doesn't get an extended run in the England team, because he might make them good enough to win things.
Ollie stretching the defence, providing extra space for Kane and creating chances for midfielders, as well as scoring his own goals, could be lethal.
Wankers jumping on bus stops, cap-wearing ****** taking over bars ordering their Carlings and Stellas, every beer garden becoming a coke convention.
Hopefully Ollie stays glorious and ours alone.
Edit: I don't support Ireland.
Now this is a small hours rant I can get behind!
Post by: pablo_picasso on March 03, 2024, 12:30:51 PM
But, he has made me eat my concerns with his overall play & more importantly, his general consistency. And I am delighted that he has made me look like a bit of an idiot.
Scoring 20+ goals in a season, double figure assists, all added to that excellent general work rate & intelligence have made him one of the top strikers in the league.
Credit to Emery for helping fine tune his game, but most credit goes to Watkins who, by all accounts, wants to work to improve & has shown no hint of ego & taken on board every bit of advice Emery has given him.
I hope the improvements & consistency in his game based on all of the above are a sign that this is who he is now as a player.
And for the length of time that he has shown such consistency, it's a good sign that is the case.
Post by: Smithy on March 03, 2024, 08:53:39 PM
While what Ollie has achieve this season is sensational (and could get even better, obviously), you have to wonder what other players out there must be thinking, when looking at what Unai has done for players like Ollie, SGM, Dougie - players who looked, at best, like relegation battler's under the previous manager and have gone on to look like truly elite players.
Ollie deserves immense credit, but have we ever had a manager who has improved so many players, by such a margin?
Post by: London Villan on March 03, 2024, 08:55:45 PM
I think Ollie Watkins this season is the perfect example of what can happen when you put a player who is willing to work incredibly hard to wring every last drop out of the ability he has, with an elite coach who will spend the time required to develop players to the limit of their potential. It's a perfect match up.
While what Ollie has achieve this season is sensational (and could get even better, obviously), you have to wonder what other players out there must be thinking, when looking at what Unai has done for players like Ollie, SGM, Dougie - players who looked, at best, like relegation battler's under the previous manager and have gone on to look like truly elite players.
Ollie deserves immense credit, but have we ever had a manager who has improved so many players, by such a margin?
Not since SGT.
Post by: Tony Daleys Shorts on March 04, 2024, 07:09:43 PM
Ollie could get there (currently 16 and 10) highlights what an outstanding season he’s having.
Post by: OCD on March 04, 2024, 07:11:35 PM
Post by: OCD on March 04, 2024, 07:24:13 PM
https://twitter.com/i/status/1764437060847309136
Post by: Villa Lew on March 04, 2024, 07:30:53 PM
Post by: Rigadon on March 04, 2024, 09:47:28 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 04, 2024, 11:02:35 PM
Post by: adrenachrome on March 04, 2024, 11:25:23 PM
I can feel a bracing coming on when those war-chests open again.
Yes, a bracing is on the cards, and if those war chests are opened there could be preparations for daring raids and outrageous bids.
Post by: VillaTim on March 04, 2024, 11:28:03 PM
He's been decent since Christmas. Long may it continue.Just need this run to last another 16 games
Post by: dcdavecollett on March 05, 2024, 02:40:53 AM
Post by: Somniloquism on March 05, 2024, 09:38:01 AM
He's been decent since Christmas. Long may it continue.
Wasn't he decent before Christmas being as 9 of his goals and 6 of his assists were before then?
Post by: Dave on March 05, 2024, 10:10:45 AM
He's been decent since Christmas. Long may it continue.
Wasn't he decent before Christmas being as 9 of his goals and 6 of his assists were before then?
He's been decent since he joined us. Since Emery arrived he's been outstanding.
Post by: danno on March 05, 2024, 10:21:59 AM
He's been decent since Christmas. Long may it continue.
Remember that guy on here in the summer suggesting we sell him? ;)
Post by: mrfuse on March 05, 2024, 10:50:19 AM
If you compare him against someone like Rashford who is arguably a more gifted technical player, Ollie has surpassed him through hard work and dedication.
Post by: Ian. on March 05, 2024, 12:54:22 PM
He's been decent since Christmas. Long may it continue.
Wasn't he decent before Christmas being as 9 of his goals and 6 of his assists were before then?
He's been decent since he joined us. Since Emery arrived he's been outstanding.
Definitely, he’s just perfect in that role for us.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 05, 2024, 01:17:25 PM
He's been decent since Christmas. Long may it continue.
Remember that guy on here in the summer suggesting we sell him? ;)
Hindsight, eh! Watkins has most certainly improved this season. Even more recently his touch is beyond anything we've seen before and when was the last time he missed a few sitters in one game? Right now he's playing the best football of his life.
Arsenal are going to need to have deep pockets come the summer. 😉
Post by: Yeltzer on March 14, 2024, 10:10:21 PM
Really hope it was just a painful impact injury
Post by: pablo_picasso on March 14, 2024, 10:13:13 PM
ailey on TNT: I asked Ollie to stay on til half time, but it (his injury) was bad and he couldn’t 😧
Really hope it was just a painful impact injury
He also said it was a cut. Its open & bad, but he said its a cut.
Post by: Villan82 on March 14, 2024, 10:14:43 PM
Post by: Yeltzer on March 14, 2024, 10:22:47 PM
ailey on TNT: I asked Ollie to stay on til half time, but it (his injury) was bad and he couldn’t 😧
Really hope it was just a painful impact injury
He also said it was a cut. Its open & bad, but he said its a cut.
Phew. Missed that bit 🤦♂️
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 14, 2024, 10:23:55 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 14, 2024, 10:26:20 PM
A cut can still be pretty serious. Hopefully they can get it sorted quick.If it’s on or around the knee he won’t be playing Sunday.
Post by: Somniloquism on March 14, 2024, 10:27:14 PM
Post by: Risso on March 14, 2024, 10:29:14 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on March 14, 2024, 10:30:42 PM
Post by: pablo_picasso on March 14, 2024, 10:34:40 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 14, 2024, 10:35:42 PM
A cut can still be pretty serious.
Especially if it's the first one.
Post by: stubbsyandy on March 14, 2024, 10:47:43 PM
Bit of superglue but yes pretty much.
Bostik
Post by: eamonn on March 14, 2024, 10:55:50 PM
Bit of superglue but yes pretty much.
Bostik
Psycho for sex and glue.
Post by: Rory on March 14, 2024, 11:24:10 PM
A cut can still be pretty serious. Hopefully they can get it sorted quick.If it’s on or around the knee he won’t be playing Sunday.
Stitches on the knee, they never heal right. It could leave a very bad scar.
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 14, 2024, 11:31:58 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 14, 2024, 11:39:41 PM
It’s just a scratch
Close enough, he should be fine.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GIqtXYIXIAAmFyX?format=jpg&name=large)
Post by: Chap on March 14, 2024, 11:40:45 PM
Ollie will have stitched it himself with a darning needle and thread, Rambo style!🤣A cut can still be pretty serious. Hopefully they can get it sorted quick.If it’s on or around the knee he won’t be playing Sunday.
Stitches on the knee, they never heal right. It could leave a very bad scar.
Post by: Rory on March 14, 2024, 11:52:09 PM
Ollie will have stitched it himself with a darning needle and thread, Rambo style!🤣A cut can still be pretty serious. Hopefully they can get it sorted quick.If it’s on or around the knee he won’t be playing Sunday.
Stitches on the knee, they never heal right. It could leave a very bad scar.
Wouldn't put it past him. Ollie's a cyborg.
Post by: Olneythelonely on March 14, 2024, 11:55:01 PM
Been decent since Christmas.
Post by: Rory on March 15, 2024, 12:06:24 AM
Hopefully it is just a cut and not one of these mystical injuries that keep Villa players out for months.
Been decent sinceChristmasSeptember 2020.
Post by: Olneythelonely on March 15, 2024, 12:11:34 AM
Hopefully it is just a cut and not one of these mystical injuries that keep Villa players out for months.
Been decent sinceChristmasSeptember 2020.
Oh, I’m one of the converted Rory. Huge fanboy (think the kids still say that). It was a sly dig at the disgusting non-believers
Post by: VillaTim on March 15, 2024, 12:12:31 AM
Post by: Olneythelonely on March 15, 2024, 12:13:40 AM
Whatever.
Childish
Post by: Rory on March 15, 2024, 12:27:23 AM
Hopefully it is just a cut and not one of these mystical injuries that keep Villa players out for months.
Been decent sinceChristmasSeptember 2020.
Oh, I’m one of the converted Rory. Huge fanboy (think the kids still say that). It was a sly dig at the disgusting non-believers
Sorry, bud, I thought you were genuine for a minute.
Post by: olaftab on March 15, 2024, 05:54:47 AM
Yes, always the deepest.A cut can still be pretty serious.
Especially if it's the first one.
Post by: Tony Daleys Shorts on March 15, 2024, 06:40:12 AM
What a player this fella is, even after throwing in a stinker Sunday, he stays positive and keeps getting the rewards, 22 goals and counting.
Ollie’s made of stern stuff, I’d expect him to play Sunday.
Post by: Somniloquism on March 15, 2024, 08:46:50 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 15, 2024, 09:08:13 AM
Baby I know.Yes, always the deepest.A cut can still be pretty serious.
Especially if it's the first one.
Post by: john e on March 15, 2024, 09:14:21 AM
Baby I know.Yes, always the deepest.A cut can still be pretty serious.
Especially if it's the first one.
I still want you by my side
Post by: chrisw1 on March 15, 2024, 09:43:44 AM
Then the beautiful man thinks fuck it, plays through the pain barrier and scores a beauty. Star quality. Absolute star quality.
Post by: Risso on March 15, 2024, 10:00:33 AM
Post by: Drummond on March 15, 2024, 10:07:31 AM
Thank god it's no sort of muscle or ligament damage, because it really would be season over if we lose him.
I thought the season was over already?
Post by: chrisw1 on March 15, 2024, 10:20:33 AM
Now, now Drummond. 4th probably is. 5th still to play for.Thank god it's no sort of muscle or ligament damage, because it really would be season over if we lose him.
I thought the season was over already?
Post by: passport1 on March 15, 2024, 10:46:12 AM
Post by: VillaTim on March 15, 2024, 11:02:32 AM
Post by: Drummond on March 15, 2024, 11:14:06 AM
Now, now Drummond. 4th probably is. 5th still to play for.Thank god it's no sort of muscle or ligament damage, because it really would be season over if we lose him.
I thought the season was over already?
(Shhhh, don't tell anyone, but we're currently 4th)
Post by: Dogtanian on March 15, 2024, 11:42:59 AM
Just watched the post match interview with Uni. I 've played it twice and I could swear Uni when asked about Oli said 'He's got a hard on". Just send him home to Mrs Watkins and I'm sure all will be well for Sunday.
I thought he said that, too. But I have an absolutely filthy, sex-obsessed mind, so I dismissed it.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 15, 2024, 12:25:15 PM
Just watched the post match interview with Uni. I 've played it twice and I could swear Uni when asked about Oli said 'He's got a hard on". Just send him home to Mrs Watkins and I'm sure all will be well for Sunday.
I'm not sure Bren would be happy with that.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 20, 2024, 12:13:42 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on March 20, 2024, 12:18:17 PM
Post by: Dave on March 20, 2024, 12:19:09 PM
Kaminski at Luton and Leno at Fulham beat him by about 25 mins. But he is the highest English player.
Highest outfield as well. Although there are players whose team have played a game less who could overtake him.
Impressive nonetheless though.
Post by: Somniloquism on March 20, 2024, 12:23:54 PM
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on March 21, 2024, 12:16:03 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 21, 2024, 12:48:16 PM
Post by: The Edge on March 21, 2024, 12:53:09 PM
Good old John Fashanu thinks that a ‘big’ team will buy Ollie this summer. I Fcukin so hope we make the CL to ram some of this shit down people’s throats. Oh and our ever so loyal supporting local news site covered it.They would. Probably infested by mainly Man U an Liverpool "fans"
Post by: Hookeysmith on March 21, 2024, 12:56:35 PM
Thought Merson had stopped taking narcotics?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 21, 2024, 01:05:38 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 21, 2024, 01:15:58 PM
I see Merson has suggested if it was down to him he would prefer to take Toney to Euro's than Ollie.
Thought Merson had stopped taking narcotics?
To be fair to Merson he wasn’t saying Toney was a better player. He basically said that if Kane got injured that’s the end of England’s hopes anyway, so rather than have a replacement of sorts Toney’s ability at penalties might be more useful in the round. I don’t really agree with his view, but I see the logic.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 21, 2024, 01:47:58 PM
Post by: Simon Page on March 21, 2024, 01:54:27 PM
The only other time I can remember it feeling like this was Taylor's reign, when Platt was keeping us artificially high while the 1990 squad got themselves retired or injured and Shearer started shaving.
Post by: Dave on March 21, 2024, 01:56:57 PM
England do seem impossibly reliant on Kane.
I don't think there's any country that wouldn't be reliant on one of the best two or three strikers in the world if he played for them, would there?
Post by: Simon Page on March 21, 2024, 01:58:49 PM
Post by: Rigadon on March 21, 2024, 03:02:41 PM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 21, 2024, 03:20:03 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 21, 2024, 04:27:39 PM
“Someone big will buy Ollie Watkins - I don’t believe Aston Villa can keep him”
https://x.com/avfc_news/status/1770796097310519353?s=46
Post by: Mister E on March 21, 2024, 04:32:02 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 21, 2024, 04:36:44 PM
Post by: Monty on March 21, 2024, 04:42:37 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on March 21, 2024, 04:54:35 PM
Watkins has taken penalties ... And I'm sure he practises them frequently.
Toney has missed 2 in 30, Watkins is something like a 50/50 conversion rate so I can understand the clamour to take someone for one thing. However Watkins brings more then just scoring to his game and you have to remember looking at Toney's stats that quite a few are penalty goals a season. The season he got 20 goals and Watkins got 15, six of Ivan's were pens and one for Ollie.
Post by: The Man With A Stick on March 21, 2024, 05:06:36 PM
Good old John Fashanu thinks that a ‘big’ team will buy Ollie this summer. I Fcukin so hope we make the CL to ram some of this shit down people’s throats. Oh and our ever so loyal supporting local news site covered it.
"MAIL EXCLUSIVE: VILLA LEGEND TELLS STAR TO LEAVE"
Inserts "tornvillacrest.jpg"
Fucking twats.
Post by: Dave on March 21, 2024, 06:59:01 PM
Watkins has taken penalties ... And I'm sure he practises them frequently.
Toney has missed 2 in 30, Watkins is something like a 50/50 conversion rate so I can understand the clamour to take someone for one thing. However Watkins brings more then just scoring to his game and you have to remember looking at Toney's stats that quite a few are penalty goals a season. The season he got 20 goals and Watkins got 15, six of Ivan's were pens and one for Ollie.
I can't understand the logic that wouldn't take three strikers instead of two anyway. Kane + Watkins + whichever of Toney and Solanke finishes the season stronger.
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on March 21, 2024, 09:42:07 PM
Honestly that rag is having a banner day. Villa ought to ban them, Ferguson-style.
Scousers had the right idea with The S*n
Post by: Rory on March 22, 2024, 01:50:39 AM
Honestly that rag is having a banner day. Villa ought to ban them, Ferguson-style.
I seriously think I would.
The only negative would be that they'd have a vendetta against us, which they do anyway because their anti-Villa stories wind up our fans and arouse those of our lesser neighbours. They then get clicks for trash.
I would've banned them after they chose to publish that Bill Howell 'send us the bill for the seats' piece.
Post by: dcdavecollett on March 23, 2024, 12:58:29 AM
After all, little Sir Keir is happy to write for it...
Post by: Martyn Smith on March 23, 2024, 10:15:23 PM
Let's not have any knocking of the S*n, please.
After all, little Sir Keir is happy to write for it...
Yep, like Blair, that is the audience he is brown nosing now
Treacherous ******. Absolutely none of the founding principles if the Labour Party whatsoever
Post by: Martyn Smith on March 23, 2024, 10:17:56 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 23, 2024, 10:28:39 PM
Anyway, back on topic, perfect outcome today. Ollie didn't play well and wasn't injured. Hopefully he won't feature in the second pointless friendly and will be fine and good to play proper football again Saturday
I feel like he might be happier if he’d played well, so I’d rather he’d got more service.
Post by: Duncan Shaw on March 24, 2024, 12:59:02 AM
Post by: adrenachrome on March 24, 2024, 04:32:00 AM
Anyway, back on topic, perfect outcome today. Ollie didn't play well and wasn't injured. Hopefully he won't feature in the second pointless friendly and will be fine and good to play proper football again Saturday
I feel like he might be happier if he’d played well, so I’d rather he’d got more service.
Matt Upson was very positive about the the good things he did on the R5 Live commentary.
Post by: Demitri_C on March 24, 2024, 06:30:31 AM
Post by: Dogtanian on March 24, 2024, 08:04:52 AM
Post by: manic-road on March 24, 2024, 08:36:21 AM
I see the national press are moaning about him, which annoys me, because he got no service. WE can moan about him because he's ours to moan about, but they can fuck off!!!
Correct, he was isolated for the majority of the match.
Post by: Mister E on March 24, 2024, 09:12:32 AM
Watkins played some nice touches, made some good runs and pressed as well as he normally does. He'd had benefitted from having someone like Maddison on the pitch: our midfield out-ball was to Gordon (who, despite being an unlikeable guy, is a decent player), with Foden hardly seeing anything. But it also needed someone to play the through ball occasionally; something that Watkins thrives on.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 24, 2024, 09:15:36 AM
The 'miss' was a result of a bobbly ball and a defender's touch just as he lined it up. I'm sure Saint Harry would have probably skied it too.
That was my thought on it too.
Post by: amfy on March 24, 2024, 10:22:53 AM
Overall, no service because everyone wanted to have a go themselves.
His best moments were on the wing when he managed to get the ball across despite some close attention several times, but given that he was supposed to be the centre forward - those came to nothing.
Exactly the opposite of how Unai has had him playing. Ollie said in his pre-match interview that the other England players would need to get used to how he plays. There is absolutely no sign of that yet and with the master tactician Southgate in charge, I wouldn’t be holding my breath for it.
Post by: john e on March 24, 2024, 10:39:05 AM
He’s going to have to make the most of it and fit in where he can, and if his ability doesn’t allow for that he will struggle to make the impact and we want him to have
Post by: aj2k77 on March 24, 2024, 10:50:10 AM
Post by: amfy on March 24, 2024, 11:04:06 AM
End of the day they’re not going to build a team around Ollie Watkins for the way he plays
He’s going to have to make the most of it and fit in where he can, and if his ability doesn’t allow for that he will struggle to make the impact and we want him to have
It not. ‘Building a team around him’ to ask them to pass the ball to the centre forward in the centre forward position.
Post by: Dogtanian on March 24, 2024, 11:40:08 AM
End of the day they’re not going to build a team around Ollie Watkins for the way he plays
He’s going to have to make the most of it and fit in where he can, and if his ability doesn’t allow for that he will struggle to make the impact and we want him to have
It not. ‘Building a team around him’ to ask them to pass the ball to the centre forward in the centre forward position.
Exactly. I cant remember a single pass to him in the box, whereas shit left-back Chilwell had three blasts from outside it.
Post by: pablo_picasso on March 24, 2024, 12:44:54 PM
I couldn't give two shits if Watkins didn't perform well for them.
Especially as their manager hasn't got the tactical nouse to change things if Harry Kane isn't dropping deep & creating things for himself because Southgate would rather stick a RB in at the number 10 role than actually utilise the attacking talent that is going to waste under his charge.
Fact is, Watkins & Kane are different types of players & a manager has to be able to adapt to get the best out of one.
Kanes ability to drop deep & create for himself is pretty unique, & desperately needed while that fucking fraud Southgate is in charge. Kanes ability has saved Southgate's job on more than one occasion because without Kane, Southgate has fuck all clue what he is doing.
Especially when all of the other attacking players are all playing for themselves so they can guarantee their seat on the plane to Southgate's next tournament failure.
I have said it before & I will say it again, I hope the horse faced fuckwit stands on some lego.
Post by: Clark W Griswold on March 24, 2024, 12:47:17 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 24, 2024, 12:48:51 PM
The quality of the final ball was awful.
Post by: pablo_picasso on March 24, 2024, 12:50:19 PM
Thats poor communication on my part.
I didn't watch the game, so I was just responding to the media response.
So fuck the media, as well as England & Southgate... 😉
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 24, 2024, 12:51:57 PM
Apologies, I didn't mean that he didn't play well.He did fine with no service, no chances and was crowded out any time the ball was played anywhere near him.
Thats poor communication on my part.
I didn't watch the game, so I was just responding to the media response.
So fuck the media, as well as England & Southgate... 😉
Post by: pablo_picasso on March 24, 2024, 12:57:03 PM
Apologies, I didn't mean that he didn't play well.He did fine with no service, no chances and was crowded out any time the ball was played anywhere near him.
Thats poor communication on my part.
I didn't watch the game, so I was just responding to the media response.
So fuck the media, as well as England & Southgate... 😉
So classic Southgate when Kane isn't bailing him out, by the sounds of it.
Post by: SaddVillan on March 24, 2024, 01:05:26 PM
By totally relying on Kane and not experimenting with other players/systems that he could employ should Kane be injured/suspended; he's left with himself in the situation that we saw last night. A top club striker with a different skill set to Kane trying to function in a team that had no idea how to make the best use of his abilities.
Ollie will get criticised, but it's well nigh impossible to do anything if you never get the ball. Chilwell put every chance he had into orbit and Gordon seemed oblivious to anybody else - just wanted to carve out a glory goal for himself and ended up either running down cul-de-sacs or shooting wide.
Unless he works out how to play without Kane, then Ollie or whoever takes the number 9 shirt will be scapegoated for Shitgate's incompetence.
Post by: claret+blue ed on March 24, 2024, 01:09:24 PM
Post by: The Edge on March 24, 2024, 01:16:20 PM
Southgate is clueless. Probably encourages players to "have a pop" instead of coaching ways how to play each other into goalscoring opportunities.End of the day they’re not going to build a team around Ollie Watkins for the way he plays
He’s going to have to make the most of it and fit in where he can, and if his ability doesn’t allow for that he will struggle to make the impact and we want him to have
It not. ‘Building a team around him’ to ask them to pass the ball to the centre forward in the centre forward position.
Exactly. I cant remember a single pass to him in the box, whereas shit left-back Chilwell had three blasts from outside it.
Post by: nigel on March 24, 2024, 01:33:57 PM
Miss? If you look, the defender kicked it against Ollie’s leg…
It was mentioned at HT, if I recall it was Jill Scott (?) who said the defender got a touch before Ollie.
I thought she was very complimentary towards Ollie and Ezri, too.
Post by: Clampy on March 24, 2024, 01:34:30 PM
I was at the game yesterday and obviously took more notice of what Ollie was doing than the the others, from my position behind the goal I could see he was making lots of good runs, but the balm was never played to him. I thought he did ok, but obviously without a goal it will always be looked at by a failure from the national press who already have their favourites
He's only the cream for Villa.
Post by: nigel on March 24, 2024, 01:44:02 PM
Anyway, back on topic, perfect outcome today. Ollie didn't play well and wasn't injured. Hopefully he won't feature in the second pointless friendly and will be fine and good to play proper football again Saturday
Really?
I thought he played very well considering he had no real service.
He made some very good runs which resulted in nothing as the build up was so slow.
The one real chance that did come his way was unlucky as the defender managed to get a touch.
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 24, 2024, 02:44:54 PM
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on March 25, 2024, 10:33:40 AM
Post by: Dogtanian on March 25, 2024, 10:34:42 AM
And now the stomach-churning media clamour for Toney to start against Belgium over Ollie . The narrative being Ollie was crap against Brazil. It's like Brian Little all over again.
If he's so crap, why do they like to try and sell him to other teams all the time? ;D
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on March 25, 2024, 10:36:58 AM
And now the stomach-churning media clamour for Toney to start against Belgium over Ollie . The narrative being Ollie was crap against Brazil. It's like Brian Little all over again.Sounds like a bonus for us! He gets a week off before our next game.
Post by: Simon Page on March 25, 2024, 10:39:53 AM
There's your problem. You've only worked with Kane and no-one can do what he does. If you'd tried something different and, in truth, were able to spot strengths and weaknesses from a distance, you'd not be so one dimensional.
Toney should start, but I suspect England will learn as much about how to use him as they did on Saturday.
Post by: LeeB on March 25, 2024, 10:41:54 AM
And now the stomach-churning media clamour for Toney to start against Belgium over Ollie . The narrative being Ollie was crap against Brazil. It's like Brian Little all over again.
Yeah, I've noticed that, the narrative being 'he' struggled rather than the absence of anything around him and the fact it was him that had to craft the two best balls into the box all night himself.
Foden didn't touch the ball inside the Brazil box all night, Gordan was one dimesional and Gallagher was out of his depth, but I ve heard nothing of this.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 25, 2024, 10:42:02 AM
Post by: LeeB on March 25, 2024, 10:43:46 AM
Southgate on Toney: "His passing, his link play. We're still getting to know all of those strengths because until you work with a player more regularly you don't know them inside out."
There's your problem. You've only worked with Kane and no-one can do what he does. If you'd tried something different and, in truth, were able to spot strengths and weaknesses from a distance, you'd not be so one dimensional.
Toney should start, but I suspect England will learn as much about how to use him as they did on Saturday.
Exactly, paying the price for puffing up Harry's stats in rollover fixtures that could serve better as preperation for games that actually test us.
Post by: eamonn on March 25, 2024, 10:44:51 AM
Post by: LeeB on March 25, 2024, 10:47:14 AM
I think it's entirely possible Toney is a better player, and a better fit for England, than Watkins. If that makes me a c-word, well, I'd point you to a number of other factors much higher up the list.
No, you may well be right, I think Toney is more instictive and more off-the-cuff which England will need in absence of any co-ordinated threat.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 25, 2024, 10:49:21 AM
Well, you're always siding with the pundits these days, SE. Is that the only chemistry between ye?
I'm not siding with the pundits, I'm just allergic to conspiracy theories.
Post by: Dogtanian on March 25, 2024, 10:52:54 AM
Southgate honestly thinks he's going to learn more about playing to Watkins' strengths in his training sessions than he could by watching the 200+ games he's played up front? ;D ;D
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on March 25, 2024, 10:56:24 AM
And will he play long balls over the top into the channels for Ivan "Z sign" Toney?
Post by: eamonn on March 25, 2024, 10:59:00 AM
Well, you're always siding with the pundits these days, SE. Is that the only chemistry between ye?
I'm not siding with the pundits, I'm just allergic to conspiracy theories.
Anderson often comes across humourless in interviews.
Post by: LeeB on March 25, 2024, 11:01:06 AM
Southgate pre Brazil game was all "we've got to adapt our style to accommodate Ollie blah,blah". He threw him under the bus.
And will he play long balls over the top into the channels for Ivan "Z sign" Toney?
They've got the only keeper in the league who still boots the ball up the pitch, 90's throwbacks Maguire and Gallagher huffing around and bumping into everyone, may as well go route one.
Post by: Dave on March 25, 2024, 11:01:32 AM
Southgate on Toney: "His passing, his link play. We're still getting to know all of those strengths because until you work with a player more regularly you don't know them inside out."
There's your problem. You've only worked with Kane and no-one can do what he does. If you'd tried something different and, in truth, were able to spot strengths and weaknesses from a distance, you'd not be so one dimensional.
Toney should start, but I suspect England will learn as much about how to use him as they did on Saturday.
Exactly, paying the price for puffing up Harry's stats in rollover fixtures that could serve better as preperation for games that actually test us.
Of England's last five matches, Watkins has started three of them. One of the two that he didn't was the qualifying match away in Italy, which seems fair enough to pick Kane over him.
In the latter Smith and the Gerrard period while the calls on here were mainly for Watkins to be replaced, not to be starting for England, they picked a variety of Wilson / Toney / Rashford / Abraham all of whom had time playing there.
But it's not a massive surprise that the captain and best player is picked for most of the matches. We're not starting Duran every third match to make sure he's up to speed in case Watkins gets injured. He's getting ten minutes here and there and starting group games in the Conference League.
Post by: Risso on March 25, 2024, 11:04:03 AM
I think it's entirely possible Toney is a better player, and a better fit for England, than Watkins. If that makes me a c-word, well, I'd point you to a number of other factors much higher up the list.
I think Toney's a better striker ie a better finisher than Watkins. I think you'll see from Toney when he leaves Brentford this year for Arsenal or whoever that he'll start to achieve Harry Kane style totals of league goals. That's no disrespect intended to Ollie, who's great (for us) and is probably a better all round player, but I think Toney is probably easier for a chump like Southgate to integrate into the existing framework, such as it.
Post by: LeeB on March 25, 2024, 11:11:32 AM
Southgate on Toney: "His passing, his link play. We're still getting to know all of those strengths because until you work with a player more regularly you don't know them inside out."
There's your problem. You've only worked with Kane and no-one can do what he does. If you'd tried something different and, in truth, were able to spot strengths and weaknesses from a distance, you'd not be so one dimensional.
Toney should start, but I suspect England will learn as much about how to use him as they did on Saturday.
Exactly, paying the price for puffing up Harry's stats in rollover fixtures that could serve better as preperation for games that actually test us.
Of England's last five matches, Watkins has started three of them. One of the two that he didn't was the qualifying match away in Italy, which seems fair enough to pick Kane over him.
In the latter Smith and the Gerrard period while the calls on here were mainly for Watkins to be replaced, not to be starting for England, they picked a variety of Wilson / Toney / Rashford / Abraham all of whom had time playing there.
But it's not a massive surprise that the captain and best player is picked for most of the matches. We're not starting Duran every third match to make sure he's up to speed in case Watkins gets injured. He's getting ten minutes here and there and starting group games in the Conference League.
All of those have had bits and pieces, 10-15 minutes here and there, and Kane is such an unusal type of player, and therefore difficult to replace effectively, more efforts should have been made for an effective 'plan B'.
It's not just Kane either, the keeper, Maguire, Henderson etc, it feels like constant thing.
Mind you, I'm saying all this and actually I don't really care a toss anyway, bollocks to them.
Post by: VillaTim on March 25, 2024, 11:23:19 AM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 25, 2024, 11:30:04 AM
Anderson often comes across humourless in interviews.
It's all been downhill for him since he left Yanited.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 25, 2024, 11:45:13 AM
I also think that Toney is a more like for like replacement for Kane.I think it's entirely possible Toney is a better player, and a better fit for England, than Watkins. If that makes me a c-word, well, I'd point you to a number of other factors much higher up the list.
I think Toney's a better striker ie a better finisher than Watkins. I think you'll see from Toney when he leaves Brentford this year for Arsenal or whoever that he'll start to achieve Harry Kane style totals of league goals. That's no disrespect intended to Ollie, who's great (for us) and is probably a better all round player, but I think Toney is probably easier for a chump like Southgate to integrate into the existing framework, such as it.
Is happy to come deep, link play, back to goal player.
Ollie us a more dynamic, sadly Toney is a bit of a Dick.
Post by: pablo_picasso on March 25, 2024, 12:54:10 PM
I think it's entirely possible Toney is a better player, and a better fit for England, than Watkins. If that makes me a c-word, well, I'd point you to a number of other factors much higher up the list.
I actually agree with you, to a degree.
I think he is a better out and out goalscorer than Watkins.
He is more similar to Kane than Watkins is, so there will be less adapting to do for other players too.
Especially when they decide to slowly pass the ball around the back six for five minutes before hoofing it up to 6'2" Kane or Toney, as happens more often than not.
And as Southgate is unable to spot the changes needed for Watkins to work with England, never mind implement them, Toney will always be a better fit for England than Watkins is while Southgate is in charge.
But as an overall footballer, as both creator & scorer, with a work rate that is second to none, Emerys version of Watkins is a better all round footballer than Toney is.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 25, 2024, 12:58:11 PM
I think it's entirely possible Toney is a better player, and a better fit for England, than Watkins. If that makes me a c-word, well, I'd point you to a number of other factors much higher up the list.
I actually agree with you, to a degree.
I think he is a better out and out goalscorer than Watkins.
He is more similar to Kane than Watkins is, so there will be less adapting to do for other players too.
Especially when they decide to slowly pass the ball around the back six for five minutes before hoofing it up to 6'2" Kane or Toney, as happens more often than not.
And as Southgate is unable to spot the changes needed for Watkins to work with England, never mind implement them, Toney will always be a better fit for England than Watkins is while Southgate is in charge.
But as an overall footballer, as both creator & scorer, with a work rate that is second to none, Emerys version of Watkins is a better all round footballer than Toney is.
You make well-reasoned, nuanced worthwhile points. So why (I'm not addressing this to you, Pablo) is every journalist and pundit who'd prefer Toney a ******?
Post by: Risso on March 25, 2024, 01:04:25 PM
I think it's entirely possible Toney is a better player, and a better fit for England, than Watkins. If that makes me a c-word, well, I'd point you to a number of other factors much higher up the list.
I actually agree with you, to a degree.
I think he is a better out and out goalscorer than Watkins.
He is more similar to Kane than Watkins is, so there will be less adapting to do for other players too.
Especially when they decide to slowly pass the ball around the back six for five minutes before hoofing it up to 6'2" Kane or Toney, as happens more often than not.
And as Southgate is unable to spot the changes needed for Watkins to work with England, never mind implement them, Toney will always be a better fit for England than Watkins is while Southgate is in charge.
But as an overall footballer, as both creator & scorer, with a work rate that is second to none, Emerys version of Watkins is a better all round footballer than Toney is.
You make well-reasoned, nuanced worthwhile points. So why (I'm not addressing this to you, Pablo) is every journalist and pundit who'd prefer Toney a ******?
Because all journos and pundits are c***s, and their opinion of Toney is neither here nor there?!
Post by: pablo_picasso on March 25, 2024, 01:09:43 PM
I think it's entirely possible Toney is a better player, and a better fit for England, than Watkins. If that makes me a c-word, well, I'd point you to a number of other factors much higher up the list.
I actually agree with you, to a degree.
I think he is a better out and out goalscorer than Watkins.
He is more similar to Kane than Watkins is, so there will be less adapting to do for other players too.
Especially when they decide to slowly pass the ball around the back six for five minutes before hoofing it up to 6'2" Kane or Toney, as happens more often than not.
And as Southgate is unable to spot the changes needed for Watkins to work with England, never mind implement them, Toney will always be a better fit for England than Watkins is while Southgate is in charge.
But as an overall footballer, as both creator & scorer, with a work rate that is second to none, Emerys version of Watkins is a better all round footballer than Toney is.
You make well-reasoned, nuanced worthwhile points. So why (I'm not addressing this to you, Pablo) is every journalist and pundit who'd prefer Toney a ******?
I would imagine it all depends on "why" they prefer Toney & if they investigated the Watkins situation properly.
But I cant speak for other people.
However, while I have said "fuck the media", (& I will stand by that statement until I die), that was more about their narrow viewpoints of bigging up that yapping little Yorkshire Terrier Gallagher, that LB whose name isn't important enough to remember & Southgates little bitch Mcguire, for no other reason other than appealing to the glory hunting shit-c***s who "support" those clubs.
Post by: LeeB on March 25, 2024, 01:12:54 PM
I think it's entirely possible Toney is a better player, and a better fit for England, than Watkins. If that makes me a c-word, well, I'd point you to a number of other factors much higher up the list.
I actually agree with you, to a degree.
I think he is a better out and out goalscorer than Watkins.
He is more similar to Kane than Watkins is, so there will be less adapting to do for other players too.
Especially when they decide to slowly pass the ball around the back six for five minutes before hoofing it up to 6'2" Kane or Toney, as happens more often than not.
And as Southgate is unable to spot the changes needed for Watkins to work with England, never mind implement them, Toney will always be a better fit for England than Watkins is while Southgate is in charge.
But as an overall footballer, as both creator & scorer, with a work rate that is second to none, Emerys version of Watkins is a better all round footballer than Toney is.
You make well-reasoned, nuanced worthwhile points. So why (I'm not addressing this to you, Pablo) is every journalist and pundit who'd prefer Toney a ******?
Because all journos and pundits are c***s, and their opinion of Toney is neither here nor there?!
Especially those in the county comparison game.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 25, 2024, 01:58:37 PM
Hopefully Watkins gets a rest tomorrow . Want him fresh for Saturday now .
I'm expecting Southgate to give Toney 90 minutes.
Post by: DB on March 25, 2024, 07:12:42 PM
Hopefully Watkins gets a rest tomorrow . Want him fresh for Saturday now .
I'm expecting Southgate to give Toney 90 minutes.
Yes, not just a rest but not to pull up with any injury to be avoided.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 25, 2024, 07:16:17 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 25, 2024, 08:11:49 PM
Ollie is obviously going to the Euros, so i hope he doesn't feature at all tomorrow.
I'm not so sure. Logic and good football judgement isn't something I associate with Southgate. If Toney scores against Belgium all bets are off.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 25, 2024, 09:10:14 PM
Ollie is obviously going to the Euros, so i hope he doesn't feature at all tomorrow.
I'm not so sure. Logic and good football judgement isn't something I associate with Southgate. If Toney scores against Belgium all bets are off.
Belgium were no great shakes at the weekend, Ireland probably should have beaten them.
Post by: VillaTim on March 25, 2024, 09:16:45 PM
Ollie is obviously going to the Euros, so i hope he doesn't feature at all tomorrow.I can see the twat of a manager playing him another entire game again tomorrow running him into the ground.
Post by: paul_e on March 25, 2024, 09:17:34 PM
Personally I don't think there's a huge amount between them.
Post by: VillaTim on March 25, 2024, 09:26:02 PM
Post by: Grande Pablo on March 25, 2024, 10:17:26 PM
I'd prefer a fit & refreshed Ollie raring to go on Saturday & stick a couple past the Dogheads.
Post by: paul_e on March 25, 2024, 10:25:22 PM
The whole press / Sky driven redemption of Toney beggars belief. Southgate will fancy him being a closer player to Kane in style but he does go missing from time to time according to a Brentford ST-holding pal.
I'd prefer a fit & refreshed Ollie raring to go on Saturday & stick a couple past the Dogheads.
Yep, that's been my opinion of him since they got promoted. If a "big club" sign him they will be hoping he goes full Haaland because if not he'll struggle to live up to the price tag.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 26, 2024, 02:58:39 AM
Agree, seems to lack mobility and energy.The whole press / Sky driven redemption of Toney beggars belief. Southgate will fancy him being a closer player to Kane in style but he does go missing from time to time according to a Brentford ST-holding pal.
I'd prefer a fit & refreshed Ollie raring to go on Saturday & stick a couple past the Dogheads.
Yep, that's been my opinion of him since they got promoted. If a "big club" sign him they will be hoping he goes full Haaland because if not he'll struggle to live up to the price tag.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 30, 2024, 07:32:36 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 30, 2024, 07:33:23 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on March 30, 2024, 07:37:12 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 30, 2024, 07:37:22 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 30, 2024, 07:49:42 PM
Hope he’s ok. Based on zero knowledge at all I would hope the fact he made it to half-time suggests it’s more precautionary/a niggle.
Hope so, would be tempted to rest him against Citeh if he's not 100%.
Post by: Demitri_C on March 30, 2024, 07:51:30 PM
Hope he’s ok. Based on zero knowledge at all I would hope the fact he made it to half-time suggests it’s more precautionary/a niggle.
Hope so, would be tempted to rest him against Citeh if he's not 100%.
I agree. Its a game we are likely to lose anyway. Save him for brentford a game he wilm be up for
Post by: tomd2103 on March 30, 2024, 08:00:36 PM
Hope he’s ok. Based on zero knowledge at all I would hope the fact he made it to half-time suggests it’s more precautionary/a niggle.
Or an illness maybe / hopefully?
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 30, 2024, 08:02:10 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on March 30, 2024, 08:03:05 PM
Unai Emery on Ollie Watkins: "He was feeling something in his hamstring and I think we have to wait for tomorrow. Hopefully it's not a big injury but it's his hamstring."
Great thats a 2-3 week injury at best
That leaves duran and zaniolo as our only striking options
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 30, 2024, 08:03:44 PM
Unai Emery on Ollie Watkins: "He was feeling something in his hamstring and I think we have to wait for tomorrow. Hopefully it's not a big injury but it's his hamstring."
Hmm not great. Having said that though it obviously hasn’t gone, so it might only be a short time out.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 30, 2024, 08:06:11 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 30, 2024, 08:11:05 PM
Unai Emery on Ollie Watkins: "He was feeling something in his hamstring and I think we have to wait for tomorrow. Hopefully it's not a big injury but it's his hamstring."
Great thats a 2-3 week injury at best
Thanks Dr. Kevorkian.
Post by: Steve67 on March 30, 2024, 08:13:02 PM
Unai Emery on Ollie Watkins: "He was feeling something in his hamstring and I think we have to wait for tomorrow. Hopefully it's not a big injury but it's his hamstring."
Great thats a 2-3 week injury at best
That leaves duran and zaniolo as our only striking options
Based on tonight, that might be ok.
Post by: AV84 on March 30, 2024, 08:14:48 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 30, 2024, 08:15:09 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 30, 2024, 08:17:06 PM
Unai Emery on Ollie Watkins: "He was feeling something in his hamstring and I think we have to wait for tomorrow. Hopefully it's not a big injury but it's his hamstring."
Great thats a 2-3 week injury at best
That leaves duran and zaniolo as our only striking options
2-3 week? This is Villa. Look forward to seeing him in about November
Post by: TonyD on March 30, 2024, 08:31:15 PM
Post by: eamonn on March 30, 2024, 08:35:19 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on March 30, 2024, 11:19:59 PM
Unlucky with that chance in the first half. Had the right idea to dink the ball over the goalie but on his left-foot maybe he lacked a bit of confidence.
Just seen it again on MOTD. He set it up nicely to hit it with his right foot, but then switched it ti his left.
Post by: Somniloquism on March 30, 2024, 11:20:39 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on March 30, 2024, 11:23:18 PM
I wonder if he was feeling the leg then?
Yeah, could have been. Especially as he looked like he'd got it set up nicely on his right.
Post by: Rory on March 31, 2024, 02:57:26 AM
Nothing good comes of our players playing for the gobshite Gareth.
Or any England manager for 30 years or so.
It means they're either going to fuck up (Southgate's penalty, Carson vs Croatia), leave within about 18 months (Young, Barry, Milner, Downing) or turn to shit (Gabby).
I'm surprised more players don't deaf it out altogether. Pulling on an England (or Ireland, for that matter) football shirt would fill me with about as much pride as wearing a Halfords uniform.
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on March 31, 2024, 03:05:10 AM
Nothing good comes of our players playing for the gobshite Gareth.
Or any England manager for 30 years or so.
It means they're either going to fuck up (Southgate's penalty, Carson vs Croatia), leave within about 18 months (Young, Barry, Milner, Downing) or turn to shit (Gabby).
I'm surprised more players don't deaf it out altogether. Pulling on an England (or Ireland, for that matter) football shirt would fill me with about as much pride as wearing a Halfords uniform.
I think Ben White agrees. I've always wondered how bothered I would be if I was a professional. I don't think I would be but it's easy for me to say knowing that will never be tested.
Post by: Rory on March 31, 2024, 04:34:06 AM
Nothing good comes of our players playing for the gobshite Gareth.
Or any England manager for 30 years or so.
It means they're either going to fuck up (Southgate's penalty, Carson vs Croatia), leave within about 18 months (Young, Barry, Milner, Downing) or turn to shit (Gabby).
I'm surprised more players don't deaf it out altogether. Pulling on an England (or Ireland, for that matter) football shirt would fill me with about as much pride as wearing a Halfords uniform.
I think Ben White agrees. I've always wondered how bothered I would be if I was a professional. I don't think I would be but it's easy for me to say knowing that will never be tested.
I think I would hint that it was a no in advance, as far as possible. But if I were a professional footballer I'd be significantly thicker, so I guess it's hard to say.
Post by: Martyn Smith on March 31, 2024, 04:40:58 AM
Post by: Rory on March 31, 2024, 04:56:07 AM
The St George Cross debate highlighted why I hate international football. Too much jingoistic right-wing bandwagon jumping twattery. Hopefully more players will follow White's example and the whole nonsense will fizzle away...
I agree, Martyn.
Not all England fans are like that, obviously, but there are enough to put me off.
Post by: PhilVill on March 31, 2024, 06:44:33 AM
Post by: Villafirst on March 31, 2024, 07:13:53 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on March 31, 2024, 07:55:49 AM
On another note, weekends like the last one are extremely tedious but you still can't beat an international tournament for a jamboree of football. Tell the 20 plus man pile ons after crucial goals that it doesn't matter.
Post by: Demitri_C on March 31, 2024, 07:58:06 AM
Dibt risk him for citeh - get him fit for brentford
Post by: nigel on March 31, 2024, 08:19:00 AM
If it was a precaution right decision
Dibt risk him for citeh - get him fit for brentford
The Ollie vrs Ivan derby
Post by: chrisw1 on March 31, 2024, 01:43:39 PM
Post by: AV84 on March 31, 2024, 01:50:46 PM
If I was a footballer I would 100% want to play international football and I struggle to understand players who don't want to.
I don't know if it happens in the UK as much as in other places but there are a lot of people who ended up as professional footballers because they had talent and it was a way out of bad situations. Not everyone grew up with the idea of being a football player as a dream. Some people just see it as a job, and as such they're employed by their clubs.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 31, 2024, 01:53:34 PM
If I was a footballer I would 100% want to play international football and I struggle to understand players who don't want to.
I'd struggle to find a country I wanted to play for.
Post by: Dogtanian on March 31, 2024, 01:53:36 PM
If you’re not going to play then it becomes about the experience being at the camp. If it’s not a coaching team or group of players you enjoy working with, it must be a difficult.
I work with people all day, some of them for nearly two decades, but I absolutely hate going away with work. I feel trapped and unable to really relax, and the idea of doing it for a month would break me out in a cold sweat.
That reminds me… the fella’s family have arrived for easter roast dinner and it’s getting to the point where staying up here on my own any longer will seem rude. :'(
Post by: Risso on March 31, 2024, 01:54:25 PM
If I was a footballer I would 100% want to play international football and I struggle to understand players who don't want to.
I don't know if it happens in the UK as much as in other places but there are a lot of people who ended up as professional footballers because they had talent and it was a way out of bad situations. Not everyone grew up with the idea of being a football player as a dream. Some people just see it as a job, and as such they're employed by their clubs.
I would guess that most English footballers came from relatively humble beginnings. The very best (the likes of Foden and Saka etc) are being given multiple million pound contracts at a very young age, and so depending on the type of upbringing they've had, it affects them in different ways. Ben White isn't bothered about any sort of football, apparently, beyond it being his job.
Post by: LeeB on March 31, 2024, 01:57:30 PM
Post by: Simon Page on March 31, 2024, 01:57:43 PM
Post by: olaftab on March 31, 2024, 01:58:59 PM
If I was a footballer I would 100% want to play international football and I struggle to understand players who don't want to.When you say that you're getting near "I will fight for my country" which is a totally different thing. Some people just see football for what it is a game to play and enjoy.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 31, 2024, 02:02:00 PM
I'm bothered about football, obvs as the kids say, but think I would've struggled to be arsed to want to play for England and would've declared for Ireland as it always looked more fun.
I qualify for both Irelands and Scotland. I'm 46, a stone overweight and have a penchant for substance abuse. Why couldn't I be fucking Welsh?!
Post by: LeeB on March 31, 2024, 02:06:37 PM
I'm bothered about football, obvs as the kids say, but think I would've struggled to be arsed to want to play for England and would've declared for Ireland as it always looked more fun.
I qualify for both Irelands and Scotland. I'm 46, a stone overweight and have a penchant for substance abuse. Why couldn't I be fucking Welsh?!
You'd be in my squad mate, a proven performer at International level.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 31, 2024, 02:07:05 PM
Post by: olaftab on March 31, 2024, 02:07:48 PM
There'll only be a handful of top sportspeople who wouldn't give everything to play for their country. But even if you had a flag-hating lazyarse who sees football as just a job, at the very least the increased profile and subsequent earnings would probably swing it, especially if you're from one of the high profile nations. Most elite athletes do actually like competing as often as possible..
Footballers and Cricketers have in the past (and probably will in future) chosen to play for England, purely for commercial reasons. The list includes South African and New Zealand cricketers and footballers of Irish/Welsh/Scottish ancestry. "My Country" in not in their top priority.
One draw was to play at the highest level you have to play for the national side: that is no longer the case. CL and IPL have changed that.
Post by: Smirker on March 31, 2024, 02:30:13 PM
I would only play for England or Northern Ireland.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 31, 2024, 02:31:54 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 31, 2024, 02:35:29 PM
Post by: brontebilly on March 31, 2024, 02:38:07 PM
I'm bothered about football, obvs as the kids say, but think I would've struggled to be arsed to want to play for England and would've declared for Ireland as it always looked more fun.
I qualify for both Irelands and Scotland. I'm 46, a stone overweight and have a penchant for substance abuse. Why couldn't I be fucking Welsh?!
You would be right at home in the Ireland squad, get the passport
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 31, 2024, 02:39:23 PM
I would be eligible for England, Ireland, Northern Ireland and a small Central American country.
British Honduras?
Post by: pablo_picasso on March 31, 2024, 03:06:05 PM
But because I was born in England, I could only ever choose England.
Post by: Smirker on March 31, 2024, 03:50:05 PM
I would be eligible for England, Ireland, Northern Ireland and a small Central American country.
British Honduras?
Yes 😮
I've never met anyone with roots to that country from Birmingham outside of family.
Was it just a lucky guess?
Post by: Rudy65 on March 31, 2024, 04:03:07 PM
The St George Cross debate highlighted why I hate international football. Too much jingoistic right-wing bandwagon jumping twattery. Hopefully more players will follow White's example and the whole nonsense will fizzle away...Why does this have any connection with right wing?Thats nonsense. It’s our national flag, which I’m proud of, so why should it be changed to suit some sportswear company. No way they’d do it to the Stars and Stripes.
Post by: olaftab on March 31, 2024, 04:25:30 PM
A very feisty response but it's been done before (England kit in 2011 and 12 and Union Jack was colour manipulated for Athletes tops in 2012 Olympics) by sports wear companies. And they won't do it to to S&S because Yanks are narrow minded imbeciles.The St George Cross debate highlighted why I hate international football. Too much jingoistic right-wing bandwagon jumping twattery. Hopefully more players will follow White's example and the whole nonsense will fizzle away...Why does this have any connection with right wing?Thats nonsense. It’s our national flag, which I’m proud of, so why should it be changed to suit some sportswear company. No way they’d do it to the Stars and Stripes.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 31, 2024, 05:00:36 PM
The St George Cross debate highlighted why I hate international football. Too much jingoistic right-wing bandwagon jumping twattery. Hopefully more players will follow White's example and the whole nonsense will fizzle away...Why does this have any connection with right wing?Thats nonsense. It’s our national flag, which I’m proud of, so why should it be changed to suit some sportswear company. No way they’d do it to the Stars and Stripes.
What is it that you're proud of?
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 31, 2024, 05:17:08 PM
The St George Cross debate highlighted why I hate international football. Too much jingoistic right-wing bandwagon jumping twattery. Hopefully more players will follow White's example and the whole nonsense will fizzle away...Why does this have any connection with right wing?Thats nonsense. It’s our national flag, which I’m proud of, so why should it be changed to suit some sportswear company. No way they’d do it to the Stars and Stripes.
The last England shirt that had the flag on it was 2002. What exactly has been changed?
Post by: markeeeebeeee2005 on March 31, 2024, 05:26:10 PM
Pass your driving test - proud, your grandchild scores a goal - proud.
But someone draws a red cross on a white background? I’m struggling to muster ambivalence.
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on March 31, 2024, 05:27:32 PM
Post by: john e on March 31, 2024, 06:13:58 PM
The St George Cross debate highlighted why I hate international football. Too much jingoistic right-wing bandwagon jumping twattery. Hopefully more players will follow White's example and the whole nonsense will fizzle away...Why does this have any connection with right wing?Thats nonsense. It’s our national flag, which I’m proud of, so why should it be changed to suit some sportswear company. No way they’d do it to the Stars and Stripes.
What is it that you're proud of?
The crest debate gets people going
Post by: Risso on March 31, 2024, 06:30:33 PM
Post by: john e on March 31, 2024, 06:32:38 PM
I’d qualify for Wales through both maternal grandparents, and was nearly Welsh myself. Thankfully, my mum got me over the border into the finest English county there is just in time.
Cheshire
Post by: Dave on March 31, 2024, 07:07:21 PM
A very feisty response but it's been done before (England kit in 2011 and 12 and Union Jack was colour manipulated for Athletes tops in 2012 Olympics) by sports wear companies. And they won't do it to to S&S because Yanks are narrow minded imbeciles.The St George Cross debate highlighted why I hate international football. Too much jingoistic right-wing bandwagon jumping twattery. Hopefully more players will follow White's example and the whole nonsense will fizzle away...Why does this have any connection with right wing?Thats nonsense. It’s our national flag, which I’m proud of, so why should it be changed to suit some sportswear company. No way they’d do it to the Stars and Stripes.
If I were cynical, I'd wonder whether their marketing team have worked out a way of getting people to talk about their brand.
(https://media.glamour.com/photos/5d1cca03a5810300099684a2/master/w_2560%2Cc_limit/0703_nike_lede.jpg)
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 31, 2024, 08:34:36 PM
I’d qualify for Wales through both maternal grandparents, and was nearly Welsh myself. Thankfully, my mum got me over the border into the finest English county there is just in time.
Cheshire
Wash your mouth out.
Post by: SamTheMouse on March 31, 2024, 08:44:40 PM
Post by: john e on March 31, 2024, 08:53:24 PM
I’d qualify for Wales through both maternal grandparents, and was nearly Welsh myself. Thankfully, my mum got me over the border into the finest English county there is just in time.
Cheshire
Wash your mouth out.
I’m originally from this great county
Post by: Smirker on March 31, 2024, 08:55:50 PM
How can you be proud of a flag?
Pass your driving test - proud, your grandchild scores a goal - proud.
But someone draws a red cross on a white background? I’m struggling to muster ambivalence.
I agree you can't be proud of something that isn't your achievement but it does seem like something that's only ever said about the English flag or English pride.
Post by: markeeeebeeee2005 on March 31, 2024, 09:20:49 PM
Post by: Legion on March 31, 2024, 09:34:28 PM
Post by: markeeeebeeee2005 on March 31, 2024, 09:37:21 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on March 31, 2024, 09:37:24 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 31, 2024, 09:46:35 PM
I would be eligible for England, Ireland, Northern Ireland and a small Central American country.
British Honduras?
Yes 😮
I've never met anyone with roots to that country from Birmingham outside of family.
Was it just a lucky guess?
Not a guess, the current name for British Honduras came up as a quiz question many moons ago. I also used to work with a guy whose mother was from Belize, and he'd head over there once or twice a year.
Post by: Hillbilly on March 31, 2024, 10:28:10 PM
Flag arguing is also a thing here in Australia.How can you be proud of a flag?
Pass your driving test - proud, your grandchild scores a goal - proud.
But someone draws a red cross on a white background? I’m struggling to muster ambivalence.
I agree you can't be proud of something that isn't your achievement but it does seem like something that's only ever said about the English flag or English pride.
Post by: Somniloquism on March 31, 2024, 10:56:33 PM
Not a guess, the current name for British Honduras came up as a quiz question many moons ago. I also used to work with a guy whose mother was from Belize, and he'd head over there once or twice a year.
Still a guess that Smirker had roots there though surely unless the quiz question stated "Smirker is a common name in which Central American country?"
Post by: Smirker on March 31, 2024, 11:34:18 PM
I would be eligible for England, Ireland, Northern Ireland and a small Central American country.
British Honduras?
Yes 😮
I've never met anyone with roots to that country from Birmingham outside of family.
Was it just a lucky guess?
Not a guess, the current name for British Honduras came up as a quiz question many moons ago. I also used to work with a guy whose mother was from Belize, and he'd head over there once or twice a year.
No but I mean why pick Belize and not Guatemala or El Salvador? Just went for the one with the most obvious ties to the UK?
I'm surprised when people have heard of it tbf.
Post by: olaftab on March 31, 2024, 11:46:33 PM
Can a County be great without a flag to stick in other people's faces?I’d qualify for Wales through both maternal grandparents, and was nearly Welsh myself. Thankfully, my mum got me over the border into the finest English county there is just in time.
Cheshire
Wash your mouth out.
I’m originally from this great county
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 31, 2024, 11:53:31 PM
Not a guess, the current name for British Honduras came up as a quiz question many moons ago. I also used to work with a guy whose mother was from Belize, and he'd head over there once or twice a year.
Still a guess that Smirker had roots there though surely unless the quiz question stated "Smirker is a common name in which Central American country?"
Well, given it's the second smallest country in Central America, was a former British Crown colony, we're on an English football club's forum, and Smirker doesn't appear to speak Spanish, I'd say it was a fairly obvious (and correct) choice rather than a 'lucky guess' e.g. randomly suggesting Nicaragua.
Post by: Axl Rose on April 01, 2024, 01:03:31 AM
Not a guess, the current name for British Honduras came up as a quiz question many moons ago. I also used to work with a guy whose mother was from Belize, and he'd head over there once or twice a year.
Still a guess that Smirker had roots there though surely unless the quiz question stated "Smirker is a common name in which Central American country?"
Well, given it's the second smallest country in Central America, was a former British Crown colony, we're on an English football club's forum, and Smirker doesn't appear to speak Spanish, I'd say it was a fairly obvious (and correct) choice rather than a 'lucky guess' e.g. randomly suggesting Nicaragua.
😂
Post by: purpletrousers on April 01, 2024, 03:54:59 AM
More importantly, is there any update on Watkins?
Seems best we have so far:
More important is Ollie's hamstring issue. According to reports he wanted to carry on in the second half but the Doctor advised caution, hence why he didn't appear after the break. It doesn't sound too serious, fingers crossed.
Post by: olaftab on April 01, 2024, 05:34:41 AM
Post by: Dave on April 01, 2024, 08:15:12 AM
Can a County be great without a flag to stick in other people's faces?I’d qualify for Wales through both maternal grandparents, and was nearly Welsh myself. Thankfully, my mum got me over the border into the finest English county there is just in time.
Cheshire
Wash your mouth out.
I’m originally from this great county
We've got one.
(https://www.theflagshop.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1aa45e34d8351bef7860daeb50e7952c/w/a/warwickshire-flag-official-std.jpg)
So do Cheshire and Shropshire. Although they're not as good as the Warwickshire one.
Post by: AV82EC on April 01, 2024, 08:43:33 AM
Post by: Neil Hawkes on April 01, 2024, 09:56:11 AM
Why have they got Jackie Chan practicing on his Wing Chun wooden post in a bear suit?Can a County be great without a flag to stick in other people's faces?I’d qualify for Wales through both maternal grandparents, and was nearly Welsh myself. Thankfully, my mum got me over the border into the finest English county there is just in time.
Cheshire
Wash your mouth out.
I’m originally from this great county
We've got one.
(https://www.theflagshop.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1aa45e34d8351bef7860daeb50e7952c/w/a/warwickshire-flag-official-std.jpg)
So do Cheshire and Shropshire. Although they're not as good as the Warwickshire one.
Post by: Smirker on April 01, 2024, 02:16:36 PM
Not a guess, the current name for British Honduras came up as a quiz question many moons ago. I also used to work with a guy whose mother was from Belize, and he'd head over there once or twice a year.
Still a guess that Smirker had roots there though surely unless the quiz question stated "Smirker is a common name in which Central American country?"
Well, given it's the second smallest country in Central America, was a former British Crown colony, we're on an English football club's forum, and Smirker doesn't appear to speak Spanish, I'd say it was a fairly obvious (and correct) choice rather than a 'lucky guess' e.g. randomly suggesting Nicaragua.
Very well worked out but Spanish is spoken in Belize and I do speak Spanish amigo 8)
Not fluent but I can read and write it 8)
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 01, 2024, 02:35:57 PM
Well, given it's the second smallest country in Central America, was a former British Crown colony, we're on an English football club's forum, and Smirker doesn't appear to speak Spanish, I'd say it was a fairly obvious (and correct) choice rather than a 'lucky guess' e.g. randomly suggesting Nicaragua.
Very well worked out but Spanish is spoken in Belize and I do speak Spanish amigo 8)
Not fluent but I can read and write it 8)
I know, but English is still the most commonly spoken language there, unlike the other Central American countries.
I wasn't aware from your posts here that you speak Spanish, as you haven't once mentioned your 'gafas de sol'.
Post by: Smirker on April 01, 2024, 02:53:11 PM
Well, given it's the second smallest country in Central America, was a former British Crown colony, we're on an English football club's forum, and Smirker doesn't appear to speak Spanish, I'd say it was a fairly obvious (and correct) choice rather than a 'lucky guess' e.g. randomly suggesting Nicaragua.
Very well worked out but Spanish is spoken in Belize and I do speak Spanish amigo 8)
Not fluent but I can read and write it 8)
I know, but English is still the most commonly spoken language there, unlike the other Central American countries.
I wasn't aware from your posts here that you speak Spanish, as you haven't once mentioned your 'gafas de sol'.
😂
Post by: UK Redsox on April 01, 2024, 04:25:25 PM
Not sure why flags are a topic on the Ollie thread, but our county flag looks like it should be that of a country.
The history of the flag dates waaaaaayyyyy back to ........2008
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 01, 2024, 04:58:19 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Flag_of_Devon.svg/510px-Flag_of_Devon.svg.png)
Post by: devilla on April 01, 2024, 05:12:33 PM
My favourite is the flag of Devon (St. Petroc's Cross).
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Flag_of_Devon.svg/510px-Flag_of_Devon.svg.png)
Ah, my home county and also Olli's home county. Great flag. 8)
Post by: Smirker on April 01, 2024, 05:21:18 PM
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1772/4363/products/birmingham-flag-01_1400x.jpg?v=1626432183)
I think we should use the Black Country flag.
(https://cdn10.bigcommerce.com/s-hhbbk/products/1211/images/49005/UNKG7425__47600.1580485617.1280.1280.png?c=2)
Post by: Bad English on April 01, 2024, 05:26:46 PM
Pyrénées Orientales.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 01, 2024, 05:32:15 PM
I know SE will be pleased to see the three loggerheads of Salop
Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 01, 2024, 05:33:18 PM
(https://www.theflagshop.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1aa45e34d8351bef7860daeb50e7952c/g/l/gloucestershire-flag-std.jpg)
Not sure why flags are a topic on the Ollie thread, but our county flag looks like it should be that of a country.
The history of the flag dates waaaaaayyyyy back to ........2008
I never knew Gloucestershire was part of Scandinavia
Post by: Risso on April 01, 2024, 05:34:36 PM
My favourite is the flag of Devon (St. Petroc's Cross).
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Flag_of_Devon.svg/510px-Flag_of_Devon.svg.png)
Cross? He’s absolutely furious.
Post by: algy on April 01, 2024, 05:37:49 PM
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4116/4912726850_64731f3008_b.jpg)
You see the odd St David's Cross or Dragon flag, but it's mostly Glyndwr banner.
Up in Wrexham it's almost exclusively dragon flag. Cardiff IIRC is a mix of dragon flag and St David's Cross.
* Well it sort of is - the red lion on yellow background is the historical banner of Powys, the yellow lion on red background is the same for Gwynedd.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 01, 2024, 05:48:13 PM
My favourite is the flag of Devon (St. Petroc's Cross).
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Flag_of_Devon.svg/510px-Flag_of_Devon.svg.png)
Cross? He’s absolutely furious.
Would you, by any chance, be here all week?
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 01, 2024, 05:59:11 PM
Ah, my home county and also Olli's home county. Great flag. 8)
A pleasing combination of colours, as often evidenced on Borussia Mönchengladbach kits.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 01, 2024, 05:59:51 PM
My favourite is the flag of Devon (St. Petroc's Cross).
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Flag_of_Devon.svg/510px-Flag_of_Devon.svg.png)
Cross? He’s absolutely furious.
Not surprising, given Cornish nationalists accused Devonians of cultural appropriation after its adoption.
Post by: German James on April 01, 2024, 06:10:55 PM
My favourite is the flag of Devon (St. Petroc's Cross).
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Flag_of_Devon.svg/510px-Flag_of_Devon.svg.png)
Ah, my home county and also Olli's* home county. Great flag. 8)
A pleasing combination of colours, as often evidenced on Borussia Mönchengladbach kits.
I like that too, I'd not seen it before. It has the same colours as my local district:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Flagge_Westerwaldkreis.svg)
*Oh yes: get well soon, Ollie!
Post by: olaftab on April 01, 2024, 06:23:44 PM
We have got one.Not happy with that. Disgraceful and an insult to the entire proud County.
(https://www.theflagshop.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1aa45e34d8351bef7860daeb50e7952c/w/a/warwickshire-flag-official-std.jpg)
There was no need to change the original below whatsoever. They wouldn't do it to Yorkshire flag. Bloody woke are taking over😡
(https://i.ibb.co/5jtv6QH/IMG-3384.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5jtv6QH)
Post by: AV82EC on April 01, 2024, 07:54:32 PM
We have got one.Not happy with that. Disgraceful and an insult to the entire proud County.
(https://www.theflagshop.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1aa45e34d8351bef7860daeb50e7952c/w/a/warwickshire-flag-official-std.jpg)
There was no need to change the original below whatsoever. They wouldn't do it to Yorkshire flag. Bloody woke are taking over😡
(https://i.ibb.co/5jtv6QH/IMG-3384.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5jtv6QH)
Bloody bear baiters.
Post by: Dante Lavelli on April 02, 2024, 07:42:48 PM
Post by: Legion on April 02, 2024, 07:43:48 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 02, 2024, 07:43:49 PM
Post by: Villafirst on April 02, 2024, 11:12:09 PM
Post by: CT Villan on April 03, 2024, 03:29:41 AM
Post by: Demitri_C on April 03, 2024, 09:12:51 AM
Post by: Drummond on April 06, 2024, 04:01:35 PM
Ollie Watkins' stats this season are remarkable.
He has now been involved in 27 Premier League goals - 17 goals, 10 assists.
It sees him go level with Dwight Yorke for most Premier League goal involvements by a Villa player in a single season.
And Villa still have another six games after this.
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 06, 2024, 04:07:25 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on April 06, 2024, 04:10:30 PM
Post by: nigel on April 06, 2024, 04:45:25 PM
Post by: Smirker on April 06, 2024, 05:03:35 PM
Come on Ollie.
Post by: Mister E on April 06, 2024, 05:07:24 PM
Well done Ollie. One more to equal Benteke. Two to get to the landmark 20 goal barrier.I thought he had a great game today. Well done.
Come on Ollie.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 06, 2024, 05:17:06 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 06, 2024, 05:38:44 PM
There are 15 games left and Watkins wants to score in every one. He said it himself in an interview after the Sheffield Utd game.There are 6 games left and he is on 18 goals.
It's 11 goals so far.
I think he'll end up with 21 to 22 Prem goals.
Faith.
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 06, 2024, 05:42:33 PM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on April 06, 2024, 06:32:37 PM
Post by: Olneythelonely on April 06, 2024, 06:42:04 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 06, 2024, 06:47:38 PM
Post by: Deano's Mullet on April 06, 2024, 06:50:02 PM
Yorke got 25 in 1996. How many Benteke get in his first year..... I know he got 19 in the league
24 goals in all comps, what a player. Is that the first time someone’s beat Angel’s 23? Still (at least) 8 games left.
Post by: SaddVillan on April 06, 2024, 08:30:39 PM
“It is one point but it should have been three,” he said. “These are the games we need to be winning – that’s what the top teams do. They finish it off, kill it off.
“We lacked that big-team mentality where they kill games off, which is really disappointing. Maybe we just don’t have that maturity or game intelligence yet.”
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 06, 2024, 09:08:35 PM
As well as hitting the back of the net (twice), Ollie hit the nail on the head:
“It is one point but it should have been three,” he said. “These are the games we need to be winning – that’s what the top teams do. They finish it off, kill it off.
“We lacked that big-team mentality where they kill games off, which is really disappointing. Maybe we just don’t have that maturity or game intelligence yet.”
And guess which four words from the quote BBC Sport used for their headline.
Post by: Chris Harte on April 06, 2024, 09:22:18 PM
Yep.As well as hitting the back of the net (twice), Ollie hit the nail on the head:
“It is one point but it should have been three,” he said. “These are the games we need to be winning – that’s what the top teams do. They finish it off, kill it off.
“We lacked that big-team mentality where they kill games off, which is really disappointing. Maybe we just don’t have that maturity or game intelligence yet.”
And guess which four words from the quote BBC Sport used for their headline.
To the point I was wondering if he'd actually said it.
Post by: Oklahoma on April 06, 2024, 09:28:02 PM
He has raised his game to a level I wasn't sure he could reach. Emery constantly talks about his willingness to learn, his hard work and eagerness to improve. His mentality seems to be spot on.
Fantastic stuff Ollie.
Post by: rob_bridge on April 06, 2024, 09:30:01 PM
Can we all please appreciate him.
Post by: AV84 on April 06, 2024, 09:32:19 PM
Post by: Villan82 on April 06, 2024, 09:34:58 PM
I think Ollie will get to 20 league goals for the season which is incredible (and arguably, not as common as it once was).
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 06, 2024, 09:48:12 PM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on April 06, 2024, 10:04:00 PM
The header looked simple enough today but to get as high as he did to win that between two defenders was hugely impressive.
Reminded me of Andy Gray’s second(?) goal in our 3-2 win over Manure in 76/77.
Post by: Steve67 on April 06, 2024, 10:05:56 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on April 06, 2024, 10:08:45 PM
Post by: Steve67 on April 06, 2024, 10:12:34 PM
It is not the first time he has stated something similar in recent matches. Sounds good as it makes you see he wants more, but if he keeps on going on it can also sound like someone who thinks he has outgrown us. Hopefully just the former.
No doubts it will be twisted by the media as Watkins 'unhappy, wants to join a bigger club' type crap.
Post by: AV84 on April 06, 2024, 10:16:52 PM
It is not the first time he has stated something similar in recent matches. Sounds good as it makes you see he wants more, but if he keeps on going on it can also sound like someone who thinks he has outgrown us. Hopefully just the former.
This is the point I was trying to make earlier in the post match thread. Not that he is actually fed up and looking to leave, but it's clearly something that's on his mind, and if we don't sort it out, it could lead to players getting unsettled. I don't know if it's just a case of some players not having it in them, or just a lack of experience at this level, in this position. I guess it's good that they're aware of it. And as someone else mentioned elsewhere, Arsenal were in a somewhat similar situation last season, and without completely overhauling their squad seem to have learned from it and are applying it this season.
Post by: AV82EC on April 06, 2024, 10:23:40 PM
Post by: London Villan on April 06, 2024, 10:30:28 PM
He’s also 100% correct in what he has said.
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 06, 2024, 11:05:37 PM
Emery has made a big impression on him and he's shown he's a keen student.
Post by: rob_bridge on April 06, 2024, 11:06:34 PM
He always talks well in interviews and is as intelligent off the pitch as he is on it.
He’s also 100% correct in what he has said.
Agree - a model pro
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 06, 2024, 11:27:19 PM
He was let down by some of his teammates today.
Post by: DC1874 on April 06, 2024, 11:43:33 PM
Post by: Nii Lamptey on April 06, 2024, 11:52:08 PM
That post match interview is code for I'm a Spurs or Arsenal player next season if me don't get Champions League - seen this s**t so many times when a Villa striker or midfielder get into the ingerland team 🙄
I tend to agree (*if we don’t qualify). He was an Arsenal fan growing up as a kid, and they have a giant striker sized hole in their squad too.
I still think we’ll snag 4th, and see Ollie adorning our 150th anniversary Adidas kit in the Champions League next season mind. 😉
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 07, 2024, 01:50:35 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on April 07, 2024, 02:01:54 AM
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on April 07, 2024, 02:43:18 AM
Post by: Risso on April 07, 2024, 07:24:58 AM
We’ve been mostly been playing badly for a while now, can’t defend whatsoever. Brentford’s recent away record is atrocious.
Post by: VillaTim on April 07, 2024, 07:57:07 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 07, 2024, 08:04:31 AM
What's he worth now ? £100m ? I just don't see anyone paying that .It’s rarity value, there are so few proven centre forwards around.
His heading ability has come on a lot.
Post by: Ads on April 07, 2024, 08:17:39 AM
That post match interview is code for I'm a Spurs or Arsenal player next season if me don't get Champions League - seen this s**t so many times when a Villa striker or midfielder get into the ingerland team 🙄
We must be the weakest minded supporters going. It's a marvel we have the ability to stand up sans anything from C1-L5. First sign of adversity? Crumble. No sign of adversity? Concoct one and then crumble. This loser mentality is deeply irritating as far as football or the city in general goes. That lot down the road are as bad, with their servile acceptance of their lot.
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 07, 2024, 08:47:17 AM
Emery said something about how they were all upset in the dressing room, so I reckon there’s been some truths dished out by the likes of Ollie. Good, I hope he gave the defence an absolute roasting, and they respond accordingly.
We’ve been mostly been playing badly for a while now, can’t defend whatsoever. Brentford’s recent away record is atrocious.
Yep we’ve had a lot of this dreadful phases of games, basically since the game at fucking Old Trafford. It undermines all the good stuff we do. If we want to get 4th we need to switch the fuck on and show a lot more resilience and grit.
Post by: AV84 on April 07, 2024, 09:12:50 AM
What's he worth now ? £100m ? I just don't see anyone paying that .It’s rarity value, there are so few proven centre forwards around.
His heading ability has come on a lot.
Can't take penalties though. So he'll still be here next year, as the "big" teams battle to bankrupt themselves to sign Ivan Toney.
Post by: Proposition Joe on April 07, 2024, 09:21:43 AM
Post by: Dave on April 07, 2024, 09:25:27 AM
What's he worth now ? £100m ? I just don't see anyone paying that .It’s rarity value, there are so few proven centre forwards around.
His heading ability has come on a lot.
Can't take penalties though. So he'll still be here next year, as the "big" teams battle to bankrupt themselves to sign Ivan Toney.
I reckon that Isak might be the striker that the teams above us are trying to get and Toney ends up somewhere like West Ham. Or even back at Newcastle to replace Isak.
Post by: Ads on April 07, 2024, 09:29:12 AM
If we're weak minded as supporters, we're reflecting what we've seen on the pitch over the years. We're fed up of seeing Villa as a club shit the bed every time they have a chance to do something really special.
Lowton scored that wonder goal at Stoke 11 years ago yesterday, so it popped up on Twitter. I was reminded of the players in that side as they mobbed him. They were really poor and low quality, so that's why we struggled. We now have a team full of high quality players and we're doing really well in the league. What a startling observation. The Birmingham Disease remains.
Post by: Proposition Joe on April 07, 2024, 09:32:56 AM
Post by: Ads on April 07, 2024, 09:35:52 AM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on April 07, 2024, 09:39:48 AM
If we're weak minded as supporters, we're reflecting what we've seen on the pitch over the years. We're fed up of seeing Villa as a club shit the bed every time they have a chance to do something really special.
Can we at least acknowledge that we’re either the best, or definitely one of the best, teams in the country for not giving up points from winning positions? Because reading the posts since yesterday it seems like everyone thinks we’re one of the worst.
Forgive me, but it reminds me of all the moaning about zonal marking when we were the best team in the country at defending set pieces.
Post by: DC1874 on April 07, 2024, 09:47:42 AM
Post by: Ads on April 07, 2024, 09:49:48 AM
Post by: Proposition Joe on April 07, 2024, 09:52:56 AM
If we're weak minded as supporters, we're reflecting what we've seen on the pitch over the years. We're fed up of seeing Villa as a club shit the bed every time they have a chance to do something really special.
Can we at least acknowledge that we’re either the best, or definitely one of the best, teams in the country for not giving up points from winning positions? Because reading the posts since yesterday it seems like everyone thinks we’re one of the worst.
Forgive me, but it reminds me of all the moaning about zonal marking when we were the best team in the country at defending set pieces.
Oh, I agree that this current team is better than many of its predecessors, just that we as supporters have been scarred over the years. That said, as good as we are there is a flakiness about us that we have got away with a couple of times (last being Luton away). If I had the power I'd transplant last season's run-in team with this one for the run-in, that solidity was very comforting.
Post by: AV84 on April 07, 2024, 12:32:34 PM
What's he worth now ? £100m ? I just don't see anyone paying that .It’s rarity value, there are so few proven centre forwards around.
His heading ability has come on a lot.
Can't take penalties though. So he'll still be here next year, as the "big" teams battle to bankrupt themselves to sign Ivan Toney.
I reckon that Isak might be the striker that the teams above us are trying to get and Toney ends up somewhere like West Ham. Or even back at Newcastle to replace Isak.
Yes, good point. I saw something last week heavily linking Toney to West Ham. I remember thinking it's a step up from Brentford, but it's not Arsenal. Makes sense though if Arsenal or the likes were looking at Isak. Man City are still supposedly interested in Paqueta too, so West Ham will likely have a fair bit of cash to throw around.
Post by: German James on April 07, 2024, 12:34:19 PM
Post by: Olneythelonely on April 07, 2024, 12:56:45 PM
How much cash are we likely to have to throw around in the summer? Can anyone make an educated guess?
Depends on what position we’re in from a FFP (or whatever it’s called) position. Presumably, not a whole lot from a net-spend point of view.
Post by: AV84 on April 07, 2024, 12:59:44 PM
Post by: Dante Lavelli on April 07, 2024, 01:03:28 PM
Post by: Jane on April 07, 2024, 01:41:01 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 07, 2024, 02:01:49 PM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on April 07, 2024, 02:11:57 PM
How much cash are we likely to have to throw around in the summer? Can anyone make an educated guess?
It’s a difficult one. Selling a player gives room to bring three or four in because of Risso/accounts/amortisation-type stuff. And bearing that in mind, I do find myself wondering if we should sell someone like Dougie to bring in say Palacios, Frimpong and Onana (Everton) who I think would be a top player in a good team. It’s difficult because I really love Dougie as most of us do.
Ideally we could make financial headroom by getting Couts, Donk, Morgan Sanson etc off the books but I think we have to sell one player to spend really big.
Saying all that, Morgan Rogers looks a bargain so a couple more would be great. RB and CDM ideally.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on April 07, 2024, 04:49:46 PM
“As a team, we’ve come so far from when the manager joined – 17th in the league to fighting for Champions League football. Which is unbelievable.
“But we’ve got here for a reason and that’s being strong, seeing games out and we didn’t do that here.
“It’s happened to us a few times over the season now, Man Utd away on Boxing Day, 2-0 up cruising, came out second half lackadaisical – all over the pitch, I’m not saying anyone specifically, me myself.
“We’ve just got to be more consistent and be that horrible team to play against when we’re ahead 2-0.”
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 07, 2024, 04:51:52 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 07, 2024, 04:53:04 PM
We've won far more points late on than we've dropped.
Post by: andyh on April 07, 2024, 05:04:09 PM
strikes me that Watkins comments are a good indication of how the mindset and expections of the squad have changed. For example can anyone imagine Gaby coming out with such comments?
Some of them
Post by: pablo_picasso on April 07, 2024, 06:00:08 PM
He has mentioned it once before too, along with Douglas Luiz.
None of this PR crafted robotic garbage that uses lots of words to say fuck all.
Some nice honesty for a change.
Makes me proud to support The Villa.
Post by: OCD on April 08, 2024, 11:14:09 AM
A few times = twice now this season.
We've won far more points late on than we've dropped.
Luton away as well. We were in total control and then had to get a late winner to win a game that should have been put to bed long before.
Post by: LeeB on April 08, 2024, 11:26:08 AM
A few times = twice now this season.
We've won far more points late on than we've dropped.
Luton away as well. We were in total control and then had to get a late winner to win a game that should have been put to bed long before.
It's weird too that in that game, Saturday and even on Boxing Day we were in total control of the games when going ahead, none we see-sawing games where we'd just taken the first chances.
The first half at Luton was pretty much the perfect performance against such opposition, we'd cruised to 2 up at Old Trafford and Saturday felt like it was going to be the most standard routine home win after the 2nd goal, until it wasn't.
There's been other games where it's happened but we've come back to life and sorted it out, Brighton and West Ham at home spring to mind, but it is a bit strange.
Post by: Clampy on April 08, 2024, 11:31:57 AM
A few times = twice now this season.
We've won far more points late on than we've dropped.
Luton away as well. We were in total control and then had to get a late winner to win a game that should have been put to bed long before.
So did Arsenal against them I think.
Post by: Risso on April 08, 2024, 11:33:01 AM
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 08, 2024, 07:34:13 PM
Post by: Exeter 77 on April 09, 2024, 09:12:06 AM
https://twitter.com/jenjox15/status/1777461296809582595?t=EUrRW_4X0fSOh93sDgO6QA&s=19
Post by: astonvilla82 on April 09, 2024, 09:34:24 AM
It seems Ollie was doing his bit for non-league football last night watching Truro City v Torquay. It seems his mate is the Truro captain.So that's who's Ollie joining in the summer,I knew it tut tut
https://twitter.com/jenjox15/status/1777461296809582595?t=EUrRW_4X0fSOh93sDgO6QA&s=19
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 09, 2024, 09:41:55 AM
Post by: Sleeuwenhoek on April 09, 2024, 09:48:15 AM
Post by: olaftab on April 09, 2024, 09:55:31 AM
Mustn't be playing on Thursday, if he's traipsing all the way to Cornwall on a Monday night.Yes I am also concerned. Time difference lag is a factor and on top that he would have scoffed a few Cornish pasties as well. Totally unprofessional he has been. I think an immediate fine of two weeks wages paid to a well deserving charity called olaftab should teach him not to do it again.
Post by: olaftab on April 09, 2024, 09:56:28 AM
Just think, if he was our penalty taker he'd be on 18 goals. ;)That's harsh...but true.
Post by: Nunkin1965 on April 09, 2024, 09:59:23 AM
I can see the headlines already if he doesn't get a hat-trick on Thursday.Mustn't be playing on Thursday, if he's traipsing all the way to Cornwall on a Monday night.Yes I am also concerned. Time difference lag is a factor and on top that he would have scoffed a few Cornish pasties as well. Totally unprofessional he has been. I think an immediate fine of two weeks wages paid to a well deserving charity called olaftab should teach him not to do it again.
"Watkins is pasty his best"
Apologies.
Post by: CT on April 09, 2024, 10:07:34 AM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 09, 2024, 11:28:58 AM
No striker in the league has more touches in the opponent's penalty area than Watkins .
Yeah, he really needs to work on his control.
Post by: Smithy on April 09, 2024, 11:40:16 AM
No striker in the league has more touches in the opponent's penalty area than Watkins .
Yeah, he really needs to work on his control.
This made me do a proper coffee snort. Bravo!
Post by: olaftab on April 10, 2024, 02:29:58 PM
No striker in the league has more touches in the opponent's penalty area than Watkins .Has this been reported? Have any players complained about his behaviour?
Post by: Villan82 on April 11, 2024, 10:08:02 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on April 11, 2024, 10:22:12 PM
Should have have had a penalty. Thought the referee was very poor
He didn't help himself in fairness. He didn't even appeal. For the on field ref people tend to forget that they can only give or not give a decision from what they see and the angle they see of it.
No excuse for the VAR not to intervene though
Post by: Ian. on April 11, 2024, 10:26:13 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on April 11, 2024, 10:28:42 PM
That was a ridiculous decision, completely took him out. Ollie shouldn’t have to complain for anyone in their right mind to see that. What happened to the linesman or VAR? I thought the Ref could be still be questioned in a game?
What was the referees view of it on pitch? Genuine question as I have no idea where he was at the time of the incident. VAR should have definitely intervened but without knowing the vantage point of the on field official its difficult to blame them
Post by: Ian. on April 11, 2024, 10:42:29 PM
I’d rather blame them than blame Ollie for not ranting and raving at them. That’s what lead Kamara to being sent off earlier in the season.That was a ridiculous decision, completely took him out. Ollie shouldn’t have to complain for anyone in their right mind to see that. What happened to the linesman or VAR? I thought the Ref could be still be questioned in a game?
What was the referees view of it on pitch? Genuine question as I have no idea where he was at the time of the incident. VAR should have definitely intervened but without knowing the vantage point of the on field official its difficult to blame them
Post by: KevinGage on April 11, 2024, 10:51:41 PM
No striker in the league has more touches in the opponent's penalty area than Watkins .Has this been reported? Have any players complained about his behaviour?
Touch 'em up get in to 'em.
Post by: pablo_picasso on April 11, 2024, 10:58:02 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on April 11, 2024, 11:06:12 PM
I’d rather blame them than blame Ollie for not ranting and raving at them. That’s what lead Kamara to being sent off earlier in the season.That was a ridiculous decision, completely took him out. Ollie shouldn’t have to complain for anyone in their right mind to see that. What happened to the linesman or VAR? I thought the Ref could be still be questioned in a game?
What was the referees view of it on pitch? Genuine question as I have no idea where he was at the time of the incident. VAR should have definitely intervened but without knowing the vantage point of the on field official its difficult to blame them
I'm in full agreement that VAR should be blamed. The on field ref its impossible to assign blame until you know the view he had of the incident.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 12, 2024, 03:09:38 AM
Should have have had a penalty. Thought the referee was very poor
He didn't help himself in fairness. He didn't even appeal. For the on field ref people tend to forget that they can only give or not give a decision from what they see and the angle they see of it.
No excuse for the VAR not to intervene though
This. Just because Watkins never played dead for 5 minutes doesn't mean he wasn't unquestionably fouled and VAR only had one call to make.
Post by: darren woolley on April 12, 2024, 07:35:15 AM
Post by: Somniloquism on April 12, 2024, 09:12:16 AM
I’d rather blame them than blame Ollie for not ranting and raving at them. That’s what lead Kamara to being sent off earlier in the season.That was a ridiculous decision, completely took him out. Ollie shouldn’t have to complain for anyone in their right mind to see that. What happened to the linesman or VAR? I thought the Ref could be still be questioned in a game?
What was the referees view of it on pitch? Genuine question as I have no idea where he was at the time of the incident. VAR should have definitely intervened but without knowing the vantage point of the on field official its difficult to blame them
I'm in full agreement that VAR should be blamed. The on field ref its impossible to assign blame until you know the view he had of the incident.
I don't know. I think the ref had quite a view and he decided that Watkins had maybe lost control of the ball before the challenge. That is the only reason why VAR didn't call him back for any obvious error. If he had given it, it wouldn't have been overridden either. So the onfield decision did have a sway on the call.
Post by: manic-road on April 12, 2024, 09:28:30 AM
Post by: AV82EC on April 12, 2024, 09:33:23 AM
Post by: Ads on April 12, 2024, 09:42:45 AM
Absolutely stonewall (https://twitter.com/Trentvilla1/status/1778561338681294939?t=sChbruYZmR4cnro6N2MWrg&s=19)
Post by: AV82EC on April 12, 2024, 09:44:31 AM
It worries me you use the same motorway network as me with those eyes in desperate need of glasses!
Absolutely stonewall (https://twitter.com/Trentvilla1/status/1778561338681294939?t=sChbruYZmR4cnro6N2MWrg&s=19)
Ha ha ha, hadn’t seen that angle and you’re right absolutely stonewall!
Post by: OCD on April 12, 2024, 11:15:04 AM
Post by: Drummond on April 12, 2024, 12:12:06 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 12, 2024, 06:01:33 PM
One more league goal this sees him score 19 goals- the last striker to score that many was by Benteke over 10 years ago back in 2012/13
Away form
Watkins last 4 away games: 5 goals, 2 assists!
Post by: eamonn on April 12, 2024, 06:05:33 PM
Now has 25 in all comps this season, puts him top alongside Yorke in the Premier League era.
Great but preferred Yorke.
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 12, 2024, 06:05:42 PM
With 6 games and the need to win have to see him aiming to be scoring at least 3 or 4 more goals.
Last season Haaland top goalscorer with 36 but the 3 seasons previous. 23, 23 and 22 were enough to be leading goal getter.
As it stands.
Haaland 19
Watkins 18
Salah 17
Solanke and Palmer 16
Isak, Son and Bowen 15
Watkins is the only one who doesn't take penalties. Villa have 4 penalties this season.
If he was on penalties and scoring he would top the board and be on 22 goals!
Come on Ollie!
Post by: OCD on April 12, 2024, 07:00:56 PM
Post by: Risso on April 12, 2024, 08:53:05 PM
Just think, if he was our penalty taker he'd be on 18 goals. ;)
Post by: Percy McCarthy on April 13, 2024, 04:15:17 AM
It worries me you use the same motorway network as me with those eyes in desperate need of glasses!
Absolutely stonewall (https://twitter.com/Trentvilla1/status/1778561338681294939?t=sChbruYZmR4cnro6N2MWrg&s=19)
Agreed. I could see it was a definite pen from the North Stand.
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 13, 2024, 06:21:45 AM
It defines clear and obvious.It worries me you use the same motorway network as me with those eyes in desperate need of glasses!
Absolutely stonewall (https://twitter.com/Trentvilla1/status/1778561338681294939?t=sChbruYZmR4cnro6N2MWrg&s=19)
Agreed. I could see it was a definite pen from the North Stand.
Post by: Ian. on April 13, 2024, 07:46:33 AM
It defines clear and obvious.It worries me you use the same motorway network as me with those eyes in desperate need of glasses!
Absolutely stonewall (https://twitter.com/Trentvilla1/status/1778561338681294939?t=sChbruYZmR4cnro6N2MWrg&s=19)
Agreed. I could see it was a definite pen from the North Stand.
It’s one of the most clear cut penalties I’ve seen.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 13, 2024, 08:11:31 AM
Post by: Monty on April 13, 2024, 09:21:50 AM
It worries me you use the same motorway network as me with those eyes in desperate need of glasses!
Absolutely stonewall (https://twitter.com/Trentvilla1/status/1778561338681294939?t=sChbruYZmR4cnro6N2MWrg&s=19)
lol wtf
Post by: Somniloquism on April 13, 2024, 01:42:14 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 14, 2024, 12:49:24 PM
We tried him on penalties and he wasn't very good with them.
Just think, if he was our penalty taker he'd be on 18 goals. ;)
So the question is, will Watkins step up for penalties in Douglas Luiz's absence? He has two games for the opportunity! In his pursuit of the Golden Boot and the desire to score, he will undoubtedly be fancying them. I think Watkins would have a confident mindset and worked on a technique for scoring penalties, as he has in his overall game.
His penalty record is :9 taken 4 scored 5 not scored
Post by: brontebilly on April 14, 2024, 06:29:36 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on April 14, 2024, 06:30:45 PM
Post by: Ian. on April 14, 2024, 06:35:12 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 14, 2024, 06:37:03 PM
Post by: Smirker on April 14, 2024, 06:45:40 PM
Didn't Footy predict early in the season that Ollie would score 20 league goals?
Yes.
Footy-Vill 8)
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 14, 2024, 06:48:26 PM
I think I’m going to have buy the lovely kit worn today with his name on the back !
My oh my oh my !!
Congratulations to 19 goals !
Post by: Smirker on April 14, 2024, 06:54:05 PM
Potentially 9 games left to play.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 14, 2024, 06:58:18 PM
10 assists - joint 1st
29 goals/assists - 1st
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 14, 2024, 06:59:51 PM
Post by: curiousorange on April 14, 2024, 07:01:05 PM
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on April 14, 2024, 07:02:45 PM
And there's apparently a conversation to be had about whether he goes to the Euros.
Funny, isn't it?
Post by: ChicagoLion on April 14, 2024, 07:11:11 PM
Post by: Beard82 on April 14, 2024, 07:12:50 PM
I dont get the love in for Toney. He cant even get in the Brentford side ahead of Neal Mauphey (however you spell it).And there's apparently a conversation to be had about whether he goes to the Euros.
Funny, isn't it?
Post by: LeonW on April 14, 2024, 07:12:59 PM
Post by: AV84 on April 14, 2024, 07:31:44 PM
I dont get the love in for Toney. He cant even get in the Brentford side ahead of Neal Mauphey (however you spell it).And there's apparently a conversation to be had about whether he goes to the Euros.
Funny, isn't it?
Brentford were arguably better the first half of the season when they had Mbueno and Wissa playing. Mbueno's injury impacted on them more than Toney being banned/coming back.
Post by: pablo_picasso on April 14, 2024, 07:58:31 PM
I was wrong & I am delighted to admit that in public.
Any concerns I had with Watkins have been ironed out by both the manager guiding him & the player for both listening & implementing the changes that have made him one of the best & most consistent all round strikers in the country.
And as most people think that the Premier League is the best league in the world, that would currently make him one of the best all round strikers in the world.
Post by: Dave on April 14, 2024, 08:07:02 PM
19 goals - 2nd, 1 behind Haaland
10 assists - joint 1st
29 goals/assists - 1st
Also, while it doesn't really matter because it still doesn't count, in the list of "top scorers if hitting the bar or post counted as a goal", after today he's now three clear of Haaland at the top with 25 league "goals".
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 14, 2024, 08:07:35 PM
Post by: Risso on April 14, 2024, 08:11:23 PM
19 goals - 2nd, 1 behind Haaland
10 assists - joint 1st
29 goals/assists - 1st
Also, while it doesn't really matter because it still doesn't count, in the list of "top scorers if hitting the bar or post counted as a goal", after today he's now three clear of Haaland at the top with 25 league "goals".
Careful, that way lies Chelsea top of the table xg madness!
Post by: Dave on April 14, 2024, 08:18:14 PM
19 goals - 2nd, 1 behind Haaland
10 assists - joint 1st
29 goals/assists - 1st
Also, while it doesn't really matter because it still doesn't count, in the list of "top scorers if hitting the bar or post counted as a goal", after today he's now three clear of Haaland at the top with 25 league "goals".
Careful, that way lies Chelsea top of the table xg madness!
Nah, it's fine. Because Ollie obviously *is* the best striker in the league so the made-up stats are sound.
Post by: Smirker on April 14, 2024, 09:18:32 PM
I dont get the love in for Toney. He cant even get in the Brentford side ahead of Neal Mauphey (however you spell it).And there's apparently a conversation to be had about whether he goes to the Euros.
Funny, isn't it?
Toney is a potential troublemaker. For all his talents he is not a likeable person and not the sort of personality I'd want in my team.
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 14, 2024, 09:21:54 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 14, 2024, 09:24:46 PM
Toney is a potential troublemaker. For all his talents he is not a likeable person and not the sort of personality I'd want in my team.
That's my view too, whereas Olie is the sort of guy you want your daughter to bring home as your future son-in-law.
Post by: rob_bridge on April 14, 2024, 09:26:54 PM
I dont get the love in for Toney. He cant even get in the Brentford side ahead of Neal Mauphey (however you spell it).And there's apparently a conversation to be had about whether he goes to the Euros.
Funny, isn't it?
Toney is a potential troublemaker. For all his talents he is not a likeable person and not the sort of personality I'd want in my team.
Agree he comes across as a total twat. You need a hard case to manage him as opposed to a coach. Moyes or the ilk.
Post by: LeeB on April 14, 2024, 09:28:02 PM
Toney can fuck off.
Post by: Olneythelonely on April 14, 2024, 09:50:13 PM
Post by: VillaTim on April 14, 2024, 09:53:24 PM
Post by: garyellis on April 14, 2024, 10:13:13 PM
And there's apparently a conversation to be had about whether he goes to the Euros.Some tosser on Talk Sport this morning still reckons Toney is in front of Ollie because he can take a penalty. FFS pathetic
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 14, 2024, 10:20:44 PM
Post by: Hookeysmith on April 14, 2024, 10:25:01 PM
Oh and being a shit coach
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 14, 2024, 10:30:41 PM
Post by: AV84 on April 14, 2024, 10:38:51 PM
Worst cast scenario is Kane gets injured and can't play at all, in which case Ollie has to be the better option.
Post by: Ian. on April 14, 2024, 10:44:34 PM
Post by: Dave on April 14, 2024, 10:47:28 PM
Worst cast scenario is Kane gets injured and can't play at all, in which case Ollie has to be the better option.
He's not necessarily the better option. He's definitely the better player, but it's (a) not a surprise that England play a system that is designed to play to the strengths of one of the top two or three strikers in the world and (b) not silly to pick the best replacement for the system rather than ripping it all up to play to the strengths of a striker that plays in a different way.
As has been said, it makes sense to take three strikers not two and have a different way of playing. But it's a perfectly coherent position to think that Toney is a better fit for England's style than Watkins is.
Post by: curiousorange on April 14, 2024, 10:48:31 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 14, 2024, 10:50:01 PM
Quote
Aston Villa goalkeeper Emi Martinez believes team-mate Ollie Watkins should win Premier League player of the season.
The striker's 19th league goal of the campaign clinched a 2-0 win at title-chasing Arsenal to boost Villa's hopes of Champions League qualification.
Watkins is just one goal behind Manchester City's Erling Haaland in the race for the golden boot.
"He should be a really, really good contender," Martinez told Sky Sports.
Watkins has led the charge for Unai Emery's side, who are now fourth with five matches left - three points clear of Tottenham, who have a game in hand.
His tally this campaign matches the best-ever for a Villa player in the Premier League era, while the England international, 28, is also joint-top for top-flight assists with 10.
"I think Ollie should win player of the season," added Martinez.
"When you play for a 'big six' side, you get more credit but Ollie has scored 19 goals with the chances he's got."
Although Watkins played down Martinez's suggestion, there is one individual award that he is giving his all to win.
"As a striker, you want to score as many goals as possible," he told BBC Match of the Day.
"I'm not going to lie, I'm chasing that, I'm doing all that I can to help the team to win and for me to score as many goals and assists to my team-mates as possible. I definitely have my eyes on the golden boot."
Post by: Steve67 on April 14, 2024, 10:50:22 PM
I agree with Dave, due to the way Southgate sets us up, Ollie Watkins cannot be read when he plays for England.
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on April 14, 2024, 10:56:37 PM
Quote
As a striker, you want to score as many goals as possible. I'm not going to lie, I'm chasing that, I'm doing all that I can to help the team to win and for me to score as many goals and assists to my teammates as possible. I definitely have my eyes on the golden boot. I'm not going to lie to you.....Ollie Watkins
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/soccer/i-have-my-eyes-on-the-golden-boot/ar-BB1lBIZX
Haaland 20
Ollie 19
Salah 17
Solanke 17
Isak 17
80/81 Peter Withe was equal top with Steve Archibald
76/77 Andy Gray was equal top with Malcolm McDonald
30/31 Pongo was top outright
Mods please move to Heroes Discussion if considered appropriate.
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 14, 2024, 10:58:18 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 14, 2024, 11:02:58 PM
Post by: not3bad on April 14, 2024, 11:10:04 PM
Basically Watkins is like Villa. He likes to do things the hard way.
Post by: Smirker on April 14, 2024, 11:25:46 PM
It's funny because in the past I've been frustrated with Watkins because he's missed 1 on 1 chances that I felt were very scorable.But today in his chance late on it looked pretty awkward but he dinked it in beautifully.Got deflected slightly but yeah.
Basically Watkins is like Villa. He likes to do things the hard way.
Post by: DeKuip on April 14, 2024, 11:34:16 PM
QuoteAs a striker, you want to score as many goals as possible. I'm not going to lie, I'm chasing that, I'm doing all that I can to help the team to win and for me to score as many goals and assists to my teammates as possible. I definitely have my eyes on the golden boot. I'm not going to lie to you.....Ollie Watkins
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/soccer/i-have-my-eyes-on-the-golden-boot/ar-BB1lBIZX
Haaland 20
Ollie 19
Salah 17
Solanke 17
Isak 17
80/81 Peter Withe was equal top with Steve Archibald
76/77 Andy Gray was equal top with Malcolm McDonald
30/31 Pongo was top outright
Mods please move to Heroes Discussion if considered appropriate.
I remember Andy Gray’s hat-trick against the Albion in the last game of the season to catch MacDonald up. We finished fourth with Liverpool and Man City being two of those above us and Newcastle and Man Utd just below us. And we won a cup too. Memorable season and a fantastic team to watch.
Post by: Richard on April 14, 2024, 11:52:20 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 15, 2024, 12:00:02 AM
19 goals - 2nd, 1 behind Haaland
10 assists - joint 1st
29 goals/assists - 1st
Also, while it doesn't really matter because it still doesn't count, in the list of "top scorers if hitting the bar or post counted as a goal", after today he's now three clear of Haaland at the top with 25 league "goals".
And non of those are penalties. And we know who takes penalties for Man City.
Post by: Smithy on April 15, 2024, 07:45:20 AM
However, I love the way this team is starting to really change the pessimism I've always subconsciously had towards our fortunes - yesterday's result included - so here's to Ollie getting 25 league goals and the golden boot!
Post by: Brend'Watkins on April 15, 2024, 08:55:49 AM
Post by: Risso on April 15, 2024, 09:56:35 AM
I think it’s safe to say that the swingometer is in favour of Ollie making the plane for the Euros. He’s showing great form and much better form than Toney if it’s going to be a case of one or the other.
And he's not a massive bellend either.
Post by: john e on April 15, 2024, 10:00:39 AM
i suppose that was when we played a few games more as well back in the old 1st division
Post by: darren woolley on April 15, 2024, 12:14:14 PM
was it Peter Withe who last scored 20 league goals for us ?
i suppose that was when we played a few games more as well back in the old 1st division
Yes.
Post by: Demitri_C on April 15, 2024, 03:24:00 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on April 15, 2024, 07:55:16 PM
was it Peter Withe who last scored 20 league goals for us ?
i suppose that was when we played a few games more as well back in the old 1st division
Yes.
In our title winning season and Gary Shaw got 18, what a partnership.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 15, 2024, 07:57:45 PM
Post by: SamTheMouse on April 15, 2024, 08:42:21 PM
"Maybe that’s why Troy only lasted 6 games as manager at Forest Green, he couldn’t tell the difference between a winger and a striker"
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 15, 2024, 08:54:54 PM
Martin O’Neill on Troy Deeney’s Ollie Watkins comments:
"Maybe that’s why Troy only lasted 6 games as manager at Forest Green, he couldn’t tell the difference between a winger and a striker"
Nice one, MON. :)
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 15, 2024, 09:33:00 PM
Post by: Dave on April 15, 2024, 09:43:37 PM
I do think golden boot should have some sort of qualifier around penalties. Haaland and Palmer have a much easier means of adding to their tally.
If Watkins hadn't been so lousy at them, he's have taken our penalties this season.
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 15, 2024, 09:48:19 PM
Post by: FatSam on April 15, 2024, 09:59:55 PM
Post by: Simon Page on April 15, 2024, 10:03:06 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on April 15, 2024, 10:51:35 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 15, 2024, 10:54:36 PM
I willing him on to win the golden boot and I think he'll have a hat trick before the season is out.
Post by: Somniloquism on April 15, 2024, 10:58:03 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 15, 2024, 11:03:43 PM
He already has a hat trick this season. Insight?Two hat tricks and two braces.
He actually could have had a few more hat tricks and braces this season so stands reason he be in line for one before season is out.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 16, 2024, 12:05:24 AM
Martin O’Neill on Troy Deeney’s Ollie Watkins comments:
"Maybe that’s why Troy only lasted 6 games as manager at Forest Green, he couldn’t tell the difference between a winger and a striker"
Nice one, MON. :)
Yeah, the big pubehead Vichy twat.
He's now earning a living by his association with us. He's not as stupid as he looks.
Post by: Smirker on April 16, 2024, 05:38:49 PM
I do think golden boot should have some sort of qualifier around penalties. Haaland and Palmer have a much easier means of adding to their tally.
Na. Penalties are goals. No idea why people try to discredit them. A penalty is harder than a tap-in. If you discredit a pen you discredit a tap-in and then before you know it only 30 yard screamers count.
A goal is a goal is a goal.
Post by: pablo_picasso on April 16, 2024, 06:59:25 PM
The pressure that is placed on one kick, especially with the mind games, the scuffing of the spot, etc, make it well worth counting as a goal.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on April 16, 2024, 07:20:52 PM
I do think golden boot should have some sort of qualifier around penalties. Haaland and Palmer have a much easier means of adding to their tally.
Na. Penalties are goals. No idea why people try to discredit them. A penalty is harder than a tap-in. If you discredit a pen you discredit a tap-in and then before you know it only 30 yard screamers count.
A goal is a goal is a goal.
While I agree with your overall statement a tap in is only a tap in because the scorer has the ability, nous, a reading of the game skill to put him in a position to be ready for the tap in. The penalty favours the taker. Hit with pace on target away from the keeper it’s a goal. He has time to choose how and where he puts the ball backed up with expertise and professionalism. Of course there are mitigating circumstances which affect all those, but, as Keane would say “it’s his job”.
Post by: Somniloquism on April 16, 2024, 07:29:02 PM
The Everton one was finished with aplomb, high and hard down the centre and he had scored for 4 games running so had the confidence then.
His last one though, was Liverpool away and it put it about a metre wide of the post. He also hadn't scored for over a month. So I do feel with his new found confidence in front of goal, he will more then likely put them away.
Post by: Mister E on April 16, 2024, 09:24:07 PM
His last two penalties for us was in Liverpool.agreed.
The Everton one was finished with aplomb, high and hard down the centre and he had scored for 4 games running so had the confidence then.
His last one though, was Liverpool away and it put it about a metre wide of the post. He also hadn't scored for over a month. So I do feel with his new found confidence in front of goal, he will more then likely put them away.
Post by: Drummond on April 16, 2024, 09:41:19 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 16, 2024, 09:45:04 PM
Post by: Clampy on April 17, 2024, 08:48:33 AM
Post by: Smithy on April 17, 2024, 10:12:21 AM
Penalties are a definite skill, especially mentally. That said i'd rather have the striker that scores 20 from open plan than scores 20 including 8 pens.
Of course. I'm the same. A reliable penalty-taker is obviously pretty valuable, but it's still likely to be only 5 or 6 pens a season for the average team. And even if your penalty taker is decidedly average, you're still getting 3 or 4 goals from those penalties. Your penalty taker can be your left-back (someone like Stuart Pearce), or your forward, it doesn't really matter - someone in your 11 is capable of a 70%+ conversion rate. The real value of a striker is picking up goals in open play that other players can't.
Whenever we've looked at strikers in the past, it's one of the first things I look at when I see their "goals scored" record. Not because penalties don't count, I just think they come with a small asterisk when you're evaluating a players ability as a centre-forward. We've often heard about the mythical "20 goal a season forward", but are they really THAT player if they have 9 penalties? I don't think so.
Post by: Dogtanian on April 17, 2024, 01:57:05 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/who-scored-blog/2024/apr/17/ollie-watkins-contender-premier-league-player-of-season (https://www.theguardian.com/football/who-scored-blog/2024/apr/17/ollie-watkins-contender-premier-league-player-of-season)
Post by: danno on April 17, 2024, 05:26:53 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 17, 2024, 06:29:41 PM
Post by: Stu on April 18, 2024, 10:15:12 AM
Ollie Watkins is a real contender to be Premier League player of the season (https://www.theguardian.com/football/who-scored-blog/2024/apr/17/ollie-watkins-contender-premier-league-player-of-season)
Post by: Hillbilly on April 18, 2024, 10:41:22 AM
Post by: Rigadon on April 18, 2024, 10:44:18 AM
Chelsea fans in the comments below the Guardian article talking up Palmer just so they can feel relevant.
Yes I noticed that too. Jokers.
Post by: Risso on April 18, 2024, 10:58:19 AM
Post by: Dogtanian on April 18, 2024, 11:02:18 AM
https://x.com/sportsbriefcom/status/1780888091516940335 (https://x.com/sportsbriefcom/status/1780888091516940335)
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 18, 2024, 12:30:55 PM
Post by: itbrvilla on April 18, 2024, 12:44:19 PM
Ollie for Player of the Season, Palmer for Young Player. Seems about right.I think they've both been exceptional. Although a big chunk of Palmer's goals have been penalties
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 18, 2024, 08:24:04 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on April 18, 2024, 10:17:30 PM
Post by: AV84 on April 18, 2024, 10:18:07 PM
His standing leg slips out, so did a very good job to score in that circumstance.
Also all the Emi nonsense happened while he was waiting to take it.
Post by: nigel on April 18, 2024, 10:19:59 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 18, 2024, 10:56:36 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 21, 2024, 05:30:12 PM
Post by: Tony Daleys Shorts on April 21, 2024, 05:45:37 PM
Becomes only the 9th English player in The PL era to get 30 or more goals and assists in a season.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 21, 2024, 06:00:28 PM
Post by: AV82EC on April 21, 2024, 06:03:23 PM
Post by: rob_bridge on April 21, 2024, 06:04:09 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 21, 2024, 06:06:58 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 21, 2024, 06:08:41 PM
Post by: Matt C on April 21, 2024, 06:10:31 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on April 21, 2024, 06:14:39 PM
I’m sure Sky will still be scrambling trying to find a way to justify Toney over Ollie for the Euros.
I've said it before but I really hope Ollie isn't picked for England. I couldn't care less about the national team and I'd like him playing with anger and a chip on his shoulder for us next season
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 21, 2024, 06:27:52 PM
I’m sure Sky will still be scrambling trying to find a way to justify Toney over Ollie for the Euros.
I've said it before but I really hope Ollie isn't picked for England. I couldn't care less about the national team and I'd like him playing with anger and a chip on his shoulder for us next season
We can’t hope our players don’t get picked for their country while playing for us. We want as many as possible good enough to warrant being selected. Because if we don’t provide that platform through our own success they will go somewhere else. The problem will the England manager. He’s a twat.
Post by: AV84 on April 21, 2024, 06:34:42 PM
Post by: Olneythelonely on April 21, 2024, 07:10:32 PM
Post by: London Villan on April 21, 2024, 07:16:13 PM
Best striker we’ve had in the last 30 years? Different style to Yorke, but you could make an argument he is better.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on April 21, 2024, 07:19:27 PM
I’m sure Sky will still be scrambling trying to find a way to justify Toney over Ollie for the Euros.
I've said it before but I really hope Ollie isn't picked for England. I couldn't care less about the national team and I'd like him playing with anger and a chip on his shoulder for us next season
We can’t hope our players don’t get picked for their country while playing for us. We want as many as possible good enough to warrant being selected. Because if we don’t provide that platform through our own success they will go somewhere else. The problem will the England manager. He’s a twat.
I get the point and he clearly should be picked. I just think that Ollie is at his very best when he plays with a chip on his shoulder.
Maybe if he got picked occasionally but not selected often enough to keep him angry?
Post by: Clark W Griswold on April 21, 2024, 07:21:46 PM
Today is up there with the best performances from a Villa striker, without scoring.
Best striker we’ve had in the last 30 years? Different style to Yorke, but you could make an argument he is better.
Based on this season, he’s the best I’ve seen since I started going in 88, other than Yorke. Might need a couple more seasons at the same standard to better him though.
He was great today, didn’t seem to be getting enough support first 35-40 mins but still did ok. Once we got on the front foot he was unplayable.
Post by: Somniloquism on April 21, 2024, 07:24:48 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 21, 2024, 07:29:55 PM
Post by: Dave on April 21, 2024, 07:29:57 PM
Today is up there with the best performances from a Villa striker, without scoring.
Best striker we’ve had in the last 30 years? Different style to Yorke, but you could make an argument he is better.
Based on this season, he’s the best I’ve seen since I started going in 88, other than Yorke. Might need a couple more seasons at the same standard to better him though.
He was great today, didn’t seem to be getting enough support first 35-40 mins but still did ok. Once we got on the front foot he was unplayable.
I reckon Benteke at his best for us was still better than Watkins at his best for us.
It's just that we saw the best of Benteke probably 40% of the time, whereas for the last eighteen months we've seen Watkins at his best 85% of the time.
Post by: Kevin Dawson on April 21, 2024, 07:30:44 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on April 21, 2024, 07:36:57 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 21, 2024, 07:37:15 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on April 21, 2024, 07:40:35 PM
I’d take Benteke over all of them. Watkins as magnificent as he has been couldn’t score half the goals Benteke could. They are just different types of players too. Benteke in this side is just a very scary thought. But Ollie fits in perfectly for what he has asked to do and how he involves so many other players.
However we have had multiple examples that Benteke when surrounded by better players (and in later seasons when he wasn't) was not the same player he was for us. Whether that is down to his injury when with us, or just that he thought he had now "made it", or just had one of those seasons is up for debate.
Post by: Olneythelonely on April 21, 2024, 08:03:20 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 21, 2024, 08:06:03 PM
Watkins’ best is miles better than Benteke’s best, for me.
Take a look back at a sample of Benteke goals. The runs, the acrobatic finishes, the headers, the long range goals. He was fucking magnificent.
Post by: not3bad on April 21, 2024, 08:06:33 PM
Post by: andyh on April 21, 2024, 08:08:27 PM
And he was livid he didn’t score !!
Post by: manic-road on April 21, 2024, 08:09:47 PM
Post by: N'ZMAV on April 21, 2024, 08:11:05 PM
Post by: Risso on April 21, 2024, 09:10:29 PM
Post by: London Villan on April 21, 2024, 09:17:20 PM
Post by: Clampy on April 21, 2024, 09:21:20 PM
Post by: VillaTim on April 21, 2024, 09:31:16 PM
Glad Steve Holland was there to see it even if his prick of a boss wasn't .
Post by: Olneythelonely on April 21, 2024, 11:04:08 PM
Watkins’ best is miles better than Benteke’s best, for me.
Take a look back at a sample of Benteke goals. The runs, the acrobatic finishes, the headers, the long range goals. He was fucking magnificent.
Thanks for thinking so highly of me that you think I don’t regularly look back on such things.
Post by: SoccerHQ on April 21, 2024, 11:16:32 PM
Today his touch and hold up play was perfect. He was a threat throughout running off Zabarnyi (who's a decent CB) and two brilliant assists.
Great game without scoring. 18 months ago he'd have had a similar game where he'd have missed a one on one and his touch wouldn't be off so that's where he's improved so much and loved his celebration after the second goal.
Southgate needs to be sent to the tower and locked away if he chooses Toney and Rashford over him as that selection would defy all logic.
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 21, 2024, 11:19:45 PM
Watkins’ best is miles better than Benteke’s best, for me.
Take a look back at a sample of Benteke goals. The runs, the acrobatic finishes, the headers, the long range goals. He was fucking magnificent.
Thanks for thinking so highly of me that you think I don’t regularly look back on such things.
It wasn’t a criticism of you in any way. It was conversation where tone is lost in text.
Post by: Dave on April 21, 2024, 11:27:50 PM
He's genuinely one of the best in the league now.
He's more than that, he's one of the best in the world now. Every summer since he joined, the conversation on this thread has been how we go about upgrading Watkins. Next summer it will be whether any of the ten or so teams in the world who are better than us might give us more than £100m to upgrade their team by trying to sign him.
Post by: Olneythelonely on April 21, 2024, 11:33:40 PM
Watkins’ best is miles better than Benteke’s best, for me.
Take a look back at a sample of Benteke goals. The runs, the acrobatic finishes, the headers, the long range goals. He was fucking magnificent.
Thanks for thinking so highly of me that you think I don’t regularly look back on such things.
It wasn’t a criticism of you in any way. It was conversation where tone is lost in text.
No, I didn’t really take it as criticism. Just letting you know that I’m a saddo that spends a lot of time watching old Villa matches.
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 21, 2024, 11:36:01 PM
Watkins’ best is miles better than Benteke’s best, for me.
Take a look back at a sample of Benteke goals. The runs, the acrobatic finishes, the headers, the long range goals. He was fucking magnificent.
Thanks for thinking so highly of me that you think I don’t regularly look back on such things.
It wasn’t a criticism of you in any way. It was conversation where tone is lost in text.
No, I didn’t really take it as criticism. Just letting you know that I’m a saddo that spends a lot of time watching old Villa matches.
Yep. Me too. More highlights of our past because much of the past three decades has been utter shit. And for a period 1995-1999 I didn’t watch much Villa at all having moved to the US. The internet wasn’t really a thing, PL wasn’t the PL as it is today and couldn’t be found on TV. I find watching that era particularly fascinating having missed most of it.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 21, 2024, 11:57:02 PM
Post by: VillaTim on April 22, 2024, 12:07:16 AM
Post by: robleflaneur on April 22, 2024, 12:20:10 AM
Ollie's best game for us today.
Post by: Matt C on April 22, 2024, 12:21:28 AM
Post by: Rigadon on April 22, 2024, 06:46:14 AM
He's genuinely one of the best in the league now.
He's more than that, he's one of the best in the world now. Every summer since he joined, the conversation on this thread has been how we go about upgrading Watkins. Next summer it will be whether any of the ten or so teams in the world who are better than us might give us more than £100m to upgrade their team by trying to sign him.
Spot on. Mad.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 22, 2024, 10:53:48 AM
Post by: caster troy on April 22, 2024, 10:58:42 AM
He's perfect for our system and a consumate professional, I genuinely wouldn't swap him for anyone in the world now.
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 22, 2024, 11:55:45 AM
Ollie Watkins 5
Dominic Solanke 3
Erling Haaland, Mohamed Salah 2
Alexander Isak 1
Cole Palmer 0
So if Watkins 5 shots had not hit the woodwork and instead gone in, he would be the Premier League's highest scorer with 24 goals!
Post by: Bad English on April 22, 2024, 11:58:48 AM
Post by: spartacuss on April 22, 2024, 12:16:36 PM
He was a monster today, a display of centre-forward play that would grace any era.
True, he is resilient and gets up and gets on with it more than he used to when he's clattered to the ground, but he doesn't get the protection he should have from on-the-pitch, 'premature shirt-swappers'. Did that obvious penalty he should have had in the first half get checked by VAR?
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 22, 2024, 12:18:10 PM
Post by: Gareth on April 22, 2024, 02:42:42 PM
Well said Garth…
….is not a common statement:-)
Post by: Risso on April 22, 2024, 02:48:50 PM
He was a monster today, a display of centre-forward play that would grace any era.
True, he is resilient and gets up and gets on with it more than he used to when he's clattered to the ground, but he doesn't get the protection he should have from on-the-pitch, 'premature shirt-swappers'. Did that obvious penalty he should have had in the first half get checked by VAR?
I don't know if they showed anything on any TV broadcasts, but there wasn't a single VAR check graphic that appeared on the screens at VP for anything, be it offside, penalty or whatever. That I saw, anyway.
Post by: Somniloquism on April 22, 2024, 03:00:29 PM
Garth Crooks team of the week on bbc website he compares some of Watkins play to Gary Shaw in 1981
Well said Garth…
….is not a common statement:-)
Although he has fucked up his Issue of the Week for the second week running. He reckoned he didn't want to throw a spanner into the "wonderful Chelsea display" by mentioning the penalty (no you had phoned in the article like always on Sunday night, then told them to replace a citeh player with Palmer). So decided to cover it this week when the issue he should have covered is the Forest penalties furore.
Post by: Somniloquism on April 22, 2024, 03:04:46 PM
He was a monster today, a display of centre-forward play that would grace any era.
True, he is resilient and gets up and gets on with it more than he used to when he's clattered to the ground, but he doesn't get the protection he should have from on-the-pitch, 'premature shirt-swappers'. Did that obvious penalty he should have had in the first half get checked by VAR?
I don't know if they showed anything on any TV broadcasts, but there wasn't a single VAR check graphic that appeared on the screens at VP for anything, be it offside, penalty or whatever. That I saw, anyway.
Sky text commentary mentioned some VAR checks which were waved away as onfield calls, including the potential foul on Diaby in the build-up to their goal. Although the MOTD VAR replay for that consisted of them checking the front of Diaby so not looking at the contact properly. Most things are VAR checked and I think any graphics only come on if it is more then one or two looks so might lead to a change in decision.
Post by: caster troy on April 22, 2024, 03:16:45 PM
VAR - 'Check complete - no penalty'
VAR assistant :'Do you want to see the replay'
VAR - 'No, check complete'
I imagine that's how these things go based on the incidents Ollie has had this season. Wolves in particular was outrageous.
Post by: Hookeysmith on April 22, 2024, 03:20:56 PM
VAR assistant :'Review for a penalty, foul on Watkins'
VAR - 'Check complete - no penalty'
VAR assistant :'Do you want to see the replay'
VAR - 'No, check complete'
I imagine that's how these things go based on the incidents Ollie has had this season. Wolves in particular was outrageous.
How bloody true is that
Post by: Bully2345 on April 22, 2024, 03:33:16 PM
Post by: Goldenballs on April 22, 2024, 07:09:05 PM
Here is a select list of players who have never achieved more than 30 non-penalty goal contributions in a single Premier League season.
Frank Lampard
Sergio Agüero
Romelu Lukaku
Eden Hazard
Wayne Rooney
Bruno Fernandes
Son Heung-min
Carlos Tevez
Dwight Yorke
Ruud van Nistelrooy
Michael Owen
Fernando Torres
Ian Wright
Diego Costa
Dennis Bergkamp
Taken from Twitter/X. I haven't bothered to check it.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on April 23, 2024, 10:24:00 AM
There was that one bit of magic feet from Watkins near the half way line, Trinity side that Messi would have been proud of. Hopefully somebody will put a video up of it.
Found it! 6m40s in.
Post by: The Edge on April 23, 2024, 10:30:51 AM
Ollie Watkins now has 31 non-penalty goal contributions in the Premier League this season (19 goals, 12 assists).Sky Sports News this morning discussing this season's goal involvements. Here's their list: Palmer 29 Saka 22 Foden 21 Bowen 20. Ollie didn't get a mention. The list went down as far as Grealish 4.
Here is a select list of players who have never achieved more than 30 non-penalty goal contributions in a single Premier League season.
Frank Lampard
Sergio Agüero
Romelu Lukaku
Eden Hazard
Wayne Rooney
Bruno Fernandes
Son Heung-min
Carlos Tevez
Dwight Yorke
Ruud van Nistelrooy
Michael Owen
Fernando Torres
Ian Wright
Diego Costa
Dennis Bergkamp
Taken from Twitter/X. I haven't bothered to check it.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 23, 2024, 10:34:31 AM
Sky Sports News this morning discussing this very subject. This is their list of goal involvements : Palmer 29 Saka 22 Foden 21 Bowen 20. Ollie didn't get a mention. The list went down as far as Grealish 4.
That's just taking the p!ss.
Post by: danno on April 23, 2024, 10:44:48 AM
Sky Sports News this morning discussing this very subject. This is their list of goal involvements : Palmer 29 Saka 22 Foden 21 Bowen 20. Ollie didn't get a mention. The list went down as far as Grealish 4.
That's just taking the p!ss.
Agreed. When a club pays a hundred million pounds to buy you, then you really have to be doing better than four.
Post by: chrisw1 on April 23, 2024, 10:58:25 AM
It's remarkable. Did they caveat it with non-strikers or something? (even though that's where Bowen plays a lot of the time)Sky Sports News this morning discussing this very subject. This is their list of goal involvements : Palmer 29 Saka 22 Foden 21 Bowen 20. Ollie didn't get a mention. The list went down as far as Grealish 4.
That's just taking the p!ss.
Post by: paul_e on April 23, 2024, 11:13:30 AM
Post by: The Edge on April 23, 2024, 11:21:44 AM
I didn't seeit myself my nephew posted it on our WhatsApp group.It's remarkable. Did they caveat it with non-strikers or something? (even though that's where Bowen plays a lot of the time)Sky Sports News this morning discussing this very subject. This is their list of goal involvements : Palmer 29 Saka 22 Foden 21 Bowen 20. Ollie didn't get a mention. The list went down as far as Grealish 4.
That's just taking the p!ss.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on April 23, 2024, 11:31:24 AM
That list looks very much like they were comparing the players likely to go to the Euros in the attacking midfielder spots.
They were. Sometimes it feels as though football fans are just looking to be offended
Post by: Richard on April 23, 2024, 11:43:32 AM
That list looks very much like they were comparing the players likely to go to the Euros in the attacking midfielder spots.
They were. Sometimes it feels as though football fans are just looking to be offended
So true and with the news that squads will now be 26 not 23 there are more options for Southgate. Ollie and Konsa both shoe ins I reckon.
Post by: The Edge on April 23, 2024, 11:59:39 AM
The list states "Goal involvements of English forwards" I can assure you that i am not easily offended. I would expect Ollie to be included in that list.That list looks very much like they were comparing the players likely to go to the Euros in the attacking midfielder spots.
They were. Sometimes it feels as though football fans are just looking to be offended
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 23, 2024, 07:12:23 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 23, 2024, 07:13:59 PM
Sky Sports News this morning discussing this very subject. This is their list of goal involvements : Palmer 29 Saka 22 Foden 21 Bowen 20. Ollie didn't get a mention. The list went down as far as Grealish 4.
That's just taking the p!ss.
Agreed. When a club pays a hundred million pounds to buy you, then you really have to be doing better than four.
Ha!
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 23, 2024, 10:07:52 PM
In 7 games in total for Villa he has scored 2 times and they have been the last two Prem matches including earlier this season.
Post by: Dogtanian on April 24, 2024, 11:05:07 AM
https://theathletic.com/5400527/2024/04/24/euro-2024-squad-size-increase/ (https://theathletic.com/5400527/2024/04/24/euro-2024-squad-size-increase/)
I think it's looking very likely our Ollie will be going now.
Post by: Monty on April 24, 2024, 11:08:52 AM
(I mean, of course I think Toney's good. It just looks incomprehensible on the face of it.)
Post by: LeeB on April 24, 2024, 11:17:49 AM
The whole thing's hilarious. The most goal contributions in the league, the second most in all of Europe's big five behind a certain Harry Kane, and England are so addicted to the vision of the Target Man that they might bring someone on Brentford's bench instead.
(I mean, of course I think Toney's good. It just looks incomprehensible on the face of it.)
It's funny that since he was annointed for scoring a penalty against Belgium he now can't get a game for Brentford.
Post by: Monty on April 24, 2024, 11:28:42 AM
The whole thing's hilarious. The most goal contributions in the league, the second most in all of Europe's big five behind a certain Harry Kane, and England are so addicted to the vision of the Target Man that they might bring someone on Brentford's bench instead.
(I mean, of course I think Toney's good. It just looks incomprehensible on the face of it.)
It's funny that since he was annointed for scoring a penalty against Belgium he now can't get a game for Brentford.
Like Ollie's got more than Mbappé in France! I know, played more games (than Toney too, of course, I know), but still, it's mad.
Post by: Clark W Griswold on April 24, 2024, 11:35:50 AM
Ollie Watkins now has 31 non-penalty goal contributions in the Premier League this season (19 goals, 12 assists).Sky Sports News this morning discussing this season's goal involvements. Here's their list: Palmer 29 Saka 22 Foden 21 Bowen 20. Ollie didn't get a mention. The list went down as far as Grealish 4.
Here is a select list of players who have never achieved more than 30 non-penalty goal contributions in a single Premier League season.
Frank Lampard
Sergio Agüero
Romelu Lukaku
Eden Hazard
Wayne Rooney
Bruno Fernandes
Son Heung-min
Carlos Tevez
Dwight Yorke
Ruud van Nistelrooy
Michael Owen
Fernando Torres
Ian Wright
Diego Costa
Dennis Bergkamp
Taken from Twitter/X. I haven't bothered to check it.
Were they talking about just midfielders though rather than strikers?
Not that i'm defending Sky and their biased shite. I'm fucking them off in a couple of months anyway, the fucking fucks.
EDIT*sorry just noticed others had asked the same.
Post by: AV84 on April 24, 2024, 11:47:07 AM
The whole thing's hilarious. The most goal contributions in the league, the second most in all of Europe's big five behind a certain Harry Kane, and England are so addicted to the vision of the Target Man that they might bring someone on Brentford's bench instead.
(I mean, of course I think Toney's good. It just looks incomprehensible on the face of it.)
It's funny that since he was annointed for scoring a penalty against Belgium he now can't get a game for Brentford.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Brentford missed Mbueno more this season when he was injured than they missed Toney when he was banned. If I was a club looking for an attacking player in the summer I'd be looking at Wissa or Mbueno before I'd be willing to fork over whatever stupid price they'll want for Toney.
Post by: Dogtanian on April 24, 2024, 11:49:49 AM
He hasn't scored since Feb, and now isn't getting on the pitch, so not sure what's happening in his camp.
Post by: Mister E on April 24, 2024, 11:52:56 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Brentford missed Mbueno more this season when he was injured than they missed Toney when he was banned. If I was a club looking for an attacking player in the summer I'd be looking at Wissa or Mbueno before I'd be willing to fork over whatever stupid price they'll want for Toney.Mbueno is a super player, but isn't Diaby our man in that role?
Post by: SamTheMouse on April 24, 2024, 11:57:15 AM
Maybe they should?
Post by: Dogtanian on April 24, 2024, 12:02:04 PM
England apparently don't play the right way to provide Watkins with a platform.
Maybe they should?
The question is then, if we dropped Harry Kane into Villa's starting 11 and system, would he just turn shit?
Post by: Risso on April 24, 2024, 12:15:02 PM
The list states "Goal involvements of English forwards" I can assure you that i am not easily offended. I would expect Ollie to be included in that list.That list looks very much like they were comparing the players likely to go to the Euros in the attacking midfielder spots.
They were. Sometimes it feels as though football fans are just looking to be offended
I'm with you. On Sky the other day they listed "players with top goal involvements in Europe". They didn't list Ollie. Turns out there was an asterisk with "*minimum of 20 goals scored." Yeah, makes perfect sense to list goal involvements and leave out the player with the second most due to setting an arbitrary limit on half of the metric. Twats.
Post by: eamonn on April 24, 2024, 12:27:20 PM
Probably his best all round performance for Villa today. Was absolutely unplayable.
I get your point but I prefer the performances when he scores.
Post by: Monty on April 24, 2024, 12:33:14 PM
The list states "Goal involvements of English forwards" I can assure you that i am not easily offended. I would expect Ollie to be included in that list.That list looks very much like they were comparing the players likely to go to the Euros in the attacking midfielder spots.
They were. Sometimes it feels as though football fans are just looking to be offended
I'm with you. On Sky the other day they listed "players with top goal involvements in Europe". They didn't list Ollie. Turns out there was an asterisk with "*minimum of 20 goals scored." Yeah, makes perfect sense to list goal involvements and leave out the player with the second most due to setting an arbitrary limit on half of the metric. Twats.
It is bullshit, yes. But he'll correct it before too long.
Post by: eamonn on April 24, 2024, 12:33:39 PM
Post by: LeeB on April 24, 2024, 01:01:20 PM
Post by: Risso on April 24, 2024, 01:05:36 PM
Probably his best all round performance for Villa today. Was absolutely unplayable.
I get your point but I prefer the performances when he scores.
I'd say I don't care as long as we win. Which then made me look up our record in the league this season when he does score:
He's scored in 14 matches, out of 33 played.
Of the 19 he didn't score in, he got an assist in 5 of them, leaving 14 games he either didn't score or get an assist.
Of the 14 games he scored in, we won 11, drew 2 and lost 1.
Of the 5 games he didn't score but got an assist, we won 3, drew 1 and lost 1.
Of the games where he didn't score or assist, we won 6, drew 3 and lost 5.
All of which shows just how vital he is. When he scores, you can almost guarantee we'll win the game, and when he doesn't but gets an assist, our record is still very good. And all of that is with a defence that hasn't been nearly as good as it was last year. If he can do the same next year and the defence improves with the return of Mings, well, anything's possible.
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 24, 2024, 01:06:00 PM
Well there's another thing with Watkins, he's pretty much the most durable footballer I can think of.
He also didn’t get an 8 month ban from the game for breaking 200+ FA betting rules, telling his own fans in a video “Fuck Villa”, and isn’t generally a complete wanker.
Post by: LeeB on April 24, 2024, 01:10:23 PM
Post by: Olneythelonely on April 24, 2024, 01:47:05 PM
Probably his best all round performance for Villa today. Was absolutely unplayable.
I get your point but I prefer the performances when he scores.
I’m sure he does too. Lack of a goal is the only reason it was a 9.9/10.
Post by: eamonn on April 24, 2024, 01:52:28 PM
There was a feature on Sky just before he came back which seemed to focus on how hard he'd been training in America over the autumn and what a great pro/player/all-round guy he is.
Post by: Risso on April 24, 2024, 02:15:51 PM
Post by: Clark W Griswold on April 24, 2024, 02:29:38 PM
Probably his best all round performance for Villa today. Was absolutely unplayable.
I get your point but I prefer the performances when he scores.
I'd say I don't care as long as we win. Which then made me look up our record in the league this season when he does score:
He's scored in 14 matches, out of 33 played.
Of the 19 he didn't score in, he got an assist in 5 of them, leaving 14 games he either didn't score or get an assist.
Of the 14 games he scored in, we won 11, drew 2 and lost 1.
Of the 5 games he didn't score but got an assist, we won 3, drew 1 and lost 1.
Of the games where he didn't score or assist, we won 6, drew 3 and lost 5.
All of which shows just how vital he is. When he scores, you can almost guarantee we'll win the game, and when he doesn't but gets an assist, our record is still very good. And all of that is with a defence that hasn't been nearly as good as it was last year. If he can do the same next year and the defence improves with the return of Mings, well, anything's possible.
Thanks Footy ;-)
Post by: Risso on April 24, 2024, 02:30:41 PM
Post by: Clark W Griswold on April 24, 2024, 02:33:20 PM
I know that you don't need to 'like' players as such, if they do the business on the pitch. But all the players we have now seem like genuinely nice guys as well as top professionals, whereas even without the betting stuff Toney just comes as an absolute arsehole. I'd hate it if he was anywhere near our team.
They do. We seem to have an excellent team spirit and anyone with a questionable attitude should not be touched with a barge-pole. I'd sooner give Duran more chances, a player who was rumored to have said questionable attitude but beyond a few small strops when subbed has not been any kind of problem from what i can see.
Post by: Clark W Griswold on April 24, 2024, 02:33:49 PM
Please desist with such disgusting filth! Won't somebody think of the children!
:-)
Post by: AV84 on April 24, 2024, 07:41:32 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Brentford missed Mbueno more this season when he was injured than they missed Toney when he was banned. If I was a club looking for an attacking player in the summer I'd be looking at Wissa or Mbueno before I'd be willing to fork over whatever stupid price they'll want for Toney.Mbueno is a super player, but isn't Diaby our man in that role?
I'm not saying we should sign any of them. I'm saying if we were a club looking for an attacking player (the kind that are being linked with Toney) I'd be pricing Mbueno and Wissa first.
Post by: Drummond on April 26, 2024, 09:20:21 PM
The list states "Goal involvements of English forwards" I can assure you that i am not easily offended. I would expect Ollie to be included in that list.That list looks very much like they were comparing the players likely to go to the Euros in the attacking midfielder spots.
They were. Sometimes it feels as though football fans are just looking to be offended
I'm with you. On Sky the other day they listed "players with top goal involvements in Europe". They didn't list Ollie. Turns out there was an asterisk with "*minimum of 20 goals scored." Yeah, makes perfect sense to list goal involvements and leave out the player with the second most due to setting an arbitrary limit on half of the metric. Twats.
It is bullshit, yes. But he'll correct it before too long.
And they won't quite it any more. Or they will uplift the goals scored to 21,then 22 the.....
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 26, 2024, 11:45:44 PM
Watkins non-penalty goals minus xG score of +3.3 is the 10th-best in the Premier League and better than all but three of the top 10 goalscorers.
12 assists so far this season from an Expected Assisted Goals of 7.1 - highest xA in league
Top scorers conversion rate percentage
Erling Haaland 24.10
Cole Palmer 33.33
Ollie Watkins 23.75
Alexander Isak 34.69
Mohamed Salah 22.67
Dominic Solanke 25.71
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 26, 2024, 11:58:34 PM
Watkins 17 matches 52 shots Scored 9 goals:
2 Headers from 7 headed attempts
3 Right Foot
4 Left Foot
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 26, 2024, 11:59:47 PM
“I work with him every day [doing] extras out on the training field,”
“Sometimes we don’t even do finishing practice. We may just watch videos and analysis. He is the key for me. He has helped me so much.
“I think I’ve learned a lot in a short space of time: my movement, my mentality, being patient.”
Post by: stevo_st on April 27, 2024, 07:04:35 AM
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 27, 2024, 10:32:05 AM
I’d love it he managed to get to +30 goals across all competitions. A brace today would be a good start.Yes hope so it's fully deserved all his goals and progress!
Score at least one today then he is first player since Peter Withe to score 20+ goals in a top flight campaign.
That's excellent work!
Tammy Abraham hit 25 goals in 37 matches in the championship
If Watkins hits 25 league goals he'll be the first Villa player since Andy Gray to do so in the top division
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 27, 2024, 11:18:06 AM
For those completely in the know of the whole Premier League era can it be said given Watkins consistency and goal scoring exploits is he the greatest Premier League era striker and goal scorer that you have seen and has played for Villa?? No one is better ?Today is up there with the best performances from a Villa striker, without scoring.
Best striker we’ve had in the last 30 years? Different style to Yorke, but you could make an argument he is better.
Based on this season, he’s the best I’ve seen since I started going in 88, other than Yorke. Might need a couple more seasons at the same standard to better him though.
He was great today, didn’t seem to be getting enough support first 35-40 mins but still did ok. Once we got on the front foot he was unplayable.
I reckon Benteke at his best for us was still better than Watkins at his best for us.
It's just that we saw the best of Benteke probably 40% of the time, whereas for the last eighteen months we've seen Watkins at his best 85% of the time.
In that conversation would be previous consistent top scorers Benteke, Agbonlahor, Bent, Carew , Angel, Dublin, Yorke and Saunders.
I would argue : Not only the best Premier League era striker but Watkins now have to be recognised as number one of the last 100 years . I don't have all the knowledge, but he's the best consistent Aston Villa goalscorer in last 100 years of our proud history. That's in all here of our lifetime?
What's the take of any former Villa striker who is ahead of Watkins ? because from my research he's going to be if not already the greatest ever in last 100 years.
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 27, 2024, 11:20:41 AM
Now has 25 in all comps this season, puts him top alongside Yorke in the Premier League era.
Great but preferred Yorke.
What does Watkins have to do in your view to be the best Prem era striker that you have seen ?
Post by: Dave on April 27, 2024, 11:22:17 AM
I would argue : Not only the best Premier League era striker but Watkins now have to be recognised as number one of the last 100 years . I don't have all the knowledge, but he's the best consistent Aston Villa goalscorer in last 100 years of our proud history. That's in all here of our lifetime?
What's the take of any former Villa striker who is ahead of Watkins ? because from my research he's going to be if not already the greatest ever in last 100 years.
My take is that you're about to be handed the knowledge that you're currently missing. Probably quite furiously.
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 27, 2024, 11:27:36 AM
Where are you now on Watkins and Saunders ?Fun fact. Watkins scored more league goals in his first 2 seasons with us than Dean Saunders did in his first 2 with us.
You still, hate Deano don't you? I loved him personally, I had a great picture of him from 90 minutes on my wall of him standing arms up in front of the Holte End after scoring against Liverpool on his home debut
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 27, 2024, 11:27:58 AM
Better goalscorer than Withe and Gray ?
Is only Tony Hately comparable?
17 goals then 20 then 21 goals in 3 seasons in 60s that's great goal scoring! And is Hately a better striker or Watkins ?
Johnny Dixon 26 goals and Gerry Hitchens 29 goals records must be future league targets. And that would cement Watkins as the best ever Aston Villa striker.
Post by: Somniloquism on April 27, 2024, 11:28:14 AM
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 27, 2024, 11:29:53 AM
Post by: Somniloquism on April 27, 2024, 11:32:10 AM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on April 27, 2024, 11:32:37 AM
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 27, 2024, 11:42:22 AM
Did your research show who has the most goals at villa in the last 100 years? Pretty simple thing to do. It would be a tough call to state the best for the last 50 years.Even though Agbonlahor is top premier league scorer I don't rank him in top 5 top strikers of Villa in last 100 years
I haven't included legends like Platt or Burrows as they were not strikers.
Platt 19 goals ?!!! From midfield is amazing.
I would be looking to raise discussion on goal scoring midfielders and wingers like Burrows who was leading goal scorer and goal scoring legend Gary Shaw in appropriate player threads as comparison and that can come elsewhere
This is really a discussion on recognising the greatness and witness the very live history of legend in the making and our goal scoring and contributing extraordinaire that is Ollie Watkins. He's doing historic things and I'm acknowledging that and bringing forth debate to see if it's worthy in the history of great strikers of Aston Villa .
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 27, 2024, 11:44:16 AM
I suggest you look at Peter McParland, Tom 'Pongo' Waring and Eric Houghton (although he was a winger not an out and out striker.)
The best measurements are by season top scorers in my estimation
Pongo. Case closed.
Everyone knows of Pongo but I did say 100 years.
Simply it's what others take on
Best premier league striker ?
Best striker in last 100 years?
Only Hately and Watkins are comparable.
Then likes of Gray, Withe, Yorke, Saunders, Benteke do not compete for me and I'm only familiar with Benteke.
I don't put McInally, Carew, Vassell or Abraham in the debate.
Post by: KevinGage on April 27, 2024, 11:45:43 AM
Post by: Somniloquism on April 27, 2024, 11:45:55 AM
Post by: KevinGage on April 27, 2024, 11:48:39 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Brentford missed Mbueno more this season when he was injured than they missed Toney when he was banned. If I was a club looking for an attacking player in the summer I'd be looking at Wissa or Mbueno before I'd be willing to fork over whatever stupid price they'll want for Toney.Mbueno is a super player, but isn't Diaby our man in that role?
I'm not saying we should sign any of them. I'm saying if we were a club looking for an attacking player (the kind that are being linked with Toney) I'd be pricing Mbueno and Wissa first.
Indeed.
They'd fit the Emery mould quite well.
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 27, 2024, 11:49:30 AM
And same with likes of Gray, Withe and Hately
That's all.
We be lucky to hear anyone here with tales of Pongo
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 27, 2024, 11:51:46 AM
Emery obviously realises his strengths and we are set out to maximise them. Having Diaby next to him gives defenders somebody else to worry about. It's potentially a fantastic partnership. Andy Gray was never a technical player but alongside Brian Little scored for fun because we played to his strengths. First time round Gray scored 54 goals in 113 appearances whilst Sir Brian got 40 during the same period. Together they were the best Villa partnership of my Villa days. In Watkins and Diaby were have the potential to have the third best - after Gray/Little and Withe/Shaw.Totally.
This is interesting reading
Withe must have offered assists as well as goals as Shaw was a top scorer for a season or two.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 27, 2024, 11:54:44 AM
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 27, 2024, 11:57:13 AM
Perhaps now Roger and Watkins could be a decent link up pairing but really with Diaby and Bailey I'm not sure if they'll be specific partnerships but can still go fir titles!
Post by: Somniloquism on April 27, 2024, 11:59:17 AM
Shaw and Withe went together like bacon and eggs.
Although you also had Morley and Cowans as well to compliment them and make the full english.
Post by: KevinGage on April 27, 2024, 12:09:54 PM
Gerry Hitchens' departure to Inter Milan was more of a blow than Tony Hateley's departure to Chelsea - even if the former did fund the first roof for the Holte End.
Brian Green of this parish said Benteke was the best Villa forward he's ever seen; and he's seen the above pair plus the likes of Little, Gray and the 90s mob. I'd take him at his word.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on April 27, 2024, 12:19:08 PM
I suggest you look at Peter McParland, Tom 'Pongo' Waring and Eric Houghton (although he was a winger not an out and out striker.)
The best measurements are by season top scorers in my estimationPongo. Case closed.
Everyone knows of Pongo but I did say 100 years.
Yes. I can read.
Can you count?
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 27, 2024, 12:25:59 PM
Tony Hateley was exceptional in the air but not much of an all-round player, apparently. Much like his son Mark, who made the absolute most of quite limited ability and went on to play for AC Milan, Monaco and Glasgow Rangers somehow.Thanks KG !
Gerry Hitchens' departure to Inter Milan was more of a blow than Tony Hateley's departure to Chelsea - even if the former did fund the first roof for the Holte End.
Brian Green of this parish said Benteke was the best Villa forward he's ever seen; and he's seen the above pair plus the likes of Little, Gray and the 90s mob. I'd take him at his word.
Up the Villa!
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 27, 2024, 12:29:33 PM
Well I made an error as thought Pongo was more than 100 years ago.I suggest you look at Peter McParland, Tom 'Pongo' Waring and Eric Houghton (although he was a winger not an out and out striker.)
The best measurements are by season top scorers in my estimationPongo. Case closed.
Everyone knows of Pongo but I did say 100 years.
Yes. I can read.
Can you count?
Where are you on Watkins and premier league era ?
The best or are you favouring another?
Post by: Percy McCarthy on April 27, 2024, 12:30:15 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 27, 2024, 12:30:53 PM
There's been current talk of comparisons to Toney and last season it was Wilson but Watkins has shown markedly improvement and higher levels than both of these
Post by: KevinGage on April 27, 2024, 12:31:02 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 27, 2024, 12:34:21 PM
Lacked consistency and durability, but for sheer talent, Dalian is up there with Little, Gray, Shaw, Withe, Yorke and Benteke. Watkins yet to join that club for me. He’s only been THAT good since Unai came in. I think he’ll get there though.I saw Atkinson was never a top scorer so I can see there was a consistency issue but I have seen he scored one of the best ever Premier League goals , a Goal of the season.
Was Saunders keeping Atkinson out the team back then ? Because Saunders was the top scorer
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 27, 2024, 12:37:16 PM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on April 27, 2024, 12:37:18 PM
Lacked consistency and durability, but for sheer talent, Dalian is up there with Little, Gray, Shaw, Withe, Yorke and Benteke. Watkins yet to join that club for me. He’s only been THAT good since Unai came in. I think he’ll get there though.I saw Atkinson was never a top scorer so I can see there was a consistency issue but I have seen he scored one of the best ever Premier League goals , a Goal of the season.
Was Saunders keeping Atkinson out the team back then ? Because Saunders was the top scorer
No, they were a partnership. Saunders made the most of his ability, but Dalian had ability that Saunders could only dream of.
Post by: KevinGage on April 27, 2024, 12:37:30 PM
Lacked consistency and durability, but for sheer talent, Dalian is up there with Little, Gray, Shaw, Withe, Yorke and Benteke. Watkins yet to join that club for me. He’s only been THAT good since Unai came in. I think he’ll get there though.
Dalian could do things I haven't seen a Villa player do before or since.
Soon after arriving, Deano was impressed with him. Remember an interview where he said - paraphrasing "I'm quite good. But this fella should be playing for AC Milan."
Difficult guy though. In the summer of 1994 after the LC win he was apparently on to BFR, as he wanted parity with Alan Shearer's wages. His argument? "I've won a cup, Shearer hasn't." BFR: "Shearer scored 31 goals last season." Dalian: "Pay me his wages and I'll score 30 goals next year."
;D
Post by: The Man With A Stick on April 27, 2024, 12:38:31 PM
Lacked consistency and durability, but for sheer talent, Dalian is up there with Little, Gray, Shaw, Withe, Yorke and Benteke. Watkins yet to join that club for me. He’s only been THAT good since Unai came in. I think he’ll get there though.
You could say the same about Collymore but neither had the dedication to make it to the very top. If Dalian could have been arsed, he could have played for any club in the world. I'd have Watkins (on this season's form) over either of them.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 27, 2024, 12:38:41 PM
Was Saunders keeping Atkinson out the team back then ? Because Saunders was the top scorer
If fit they both played.
Post by: AV82EC on April 27, 2024, 12:42:05 PM
Lacked consistency and durability, but for sheer talent, Dalian is up there with Little, Gray, Shaw, Withe, Yorke and Benteke. Watkins yet to join that club for me. He’s only been THAT good since Unai came in. I think he’ll get there though.I saw Atkinson was never a top scorer so I can see there was a consistency issue but I have seen he scored one of the best ever Premier League goals , a Goal of the season.
Was Saunders keeping Atkinson out the team back then ? Because Saunders was the top scorer
No, they were a partnership. Saunders made the most of his ability, but Dalian had ability that Saunders could only dream of.
Atkinson could have had it all, he was as good as John Barnes in his pomp imv but lacked consistency, had a questionable attitude. When he was on it though, he was a frightening prospect and I liked him. RIP Dalian.
Post by: KevinGage on April 27, 2024, 12:53:24 PM
Dalian, Collywobbles, Shaw and Little all had far more natural ability. But couldn't get on the field long enough to truly fulfill their potential.
Dalian's nickname in the old fanzine was Sicknote, and that persisted even between 1992-94, which were his most productive years for the club.
Benteke was no stranger to the treatment table during his stint with us. We were less than half a team without him.
One outstanding season shouldn't really put Ollie in the conversation - yet. But hopefully in 2/3 years there will be more merit to it.
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 27, 2024, 12:55:01 PM
That some may not be the greatest players but their main ability was be able to score a goal.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 27, 2024, 12:58:23 PM
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 27, 2024, 01:01:14 PM
Agbonlahor showed some amazing attributes but didn't seem to have a strikers instinct.
At his peak he was very effective and it the sheer longevity his career that he's the top scorer in Premier League era. Of course has his moments but he could have made more. I don't think though he was the most skilled and likes of Abraham, Kodja and even Ayew probably more skilled footballers!
Gabby must have had something other than pace to be a top scorer for some seasons.
Post by: KevinGage on April 27, 2024, 01:06:41 PM
Gabby was a sprinter who got into football relatively late.
Dalian was a natural, scoring goals like this in the Nou Camp in his early 20s:
&t=58s
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 27, 2024, 01:11:59 PM
The durability factor shouldn't be overlooked in this topic.Wow that's really interest stuff on our top strikers and players from history
Dalian, Collywobbles, Shaw and Little all had far more natural ability. But couldn't get on the field long enough to truly fulfill their potential.
Dalian's nickname in the old fanzine was Sicknote, and that persisted even between 1992-94, which were his most productive years for the club.
Benteke was no stranger to the treatment table during his stint with us. We were less than half a team without him.
One outstanding season shouldn't really put Ollie in the conversation - yet. But hopefully in 2/3 years there will be more merit to it.
I think Watkins has done well each and every Prem season but perhaps it can be argued it needs more goals over more seasons to be in conversation though I have him as number one in Prem
On Shaw and Little . Shaw was a winger/ second striker and Little as a number 10 support striker?
I believe Emery is attempting to develop all of the non-strikers' goal-scoring instincts, and it is clear that he has succeeded.
Shaw and Little would likely thrive in Emery's system under ability and footy intelligence though would Shaw take instructions?
I'm sure I heard a tale where he scored the goal of the season and was yelled at by the gaffer. Saunders instructed him to pass it or something, but he disobeyed the instructions and dribbled past several players before a banger into the top corner!
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 27, 2024, 01:13:12 PM
Totally different players.Impressive! Against Koeman aswell !!
Gabby was a sprinter who got into football relatively late.
Dalian was a natural, scoring goals like this in the Nou Camp in his early 20s:&t=58s
God bless Atkinson.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on April 27, 2024, 01:13:13 PM
Post by: KevinGage on April 27, 2024, 01:18:18 PM
Difficult to truly compare eras with the difference in training and quality of pitches etc. But Shaw, Little et al were team players first and foremost, to go with that natural ability. So I think they'd fit in quite well.
I couldn't see Andy Gray or some of the others having any patience for video analysis etc.
Post by: Footy-Vill on April 27, 2024, 01:24:00 PM
That is some insight !
Strikes ball magnificently!
Half volley goals are a thing of beauty.
So that was Atkinson, Saunders and Yorke mentioned and two of those were top goal scorers
No wonder nearly won the Prem league!
I think these days need at least one other player of calibre to score 15 to 20+ goal scorer in the team. Diaby and Bailey and Rodgers all showing that goal scoring potential. Very exciting indeed!
Even if Watkins is getting 25+ next season the other attacking players will certainly be expected to improve numbers.
Captain Ginny shown that this season in fairness as has Luiz.