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Author Topic: VAR  (Read 172904 times)

Online GordonCowansisthegreatest

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1695 on: December 05, 2020, 10:14:10 AM »
The trouble with a table like that is it doesn't differentiate between clear off sides or the dubious, contrived decisions that are becoming so contentious.
Off side should be the leading foot and only if there is daylight between the two and none of this stupid 1mm lines. minimum 5mm.

Offline Baldy

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1696 on: December 05, 2020, 10:41:14 AM »
Many years ago, I was an amateur referee and the biggest thing in my favour was the players were approximately 6 feet tall. At Stockton Park, they are looking at their screen where the players are approximately 2 inches tall.

I can assure you that when an incident is magnified by 36 times you get a much clearer picture of what actually happened. Was their contact, was it a dive etc. On the pitch, you hear a lot of banter and this can also give you a better idea of individual players behaviour. Are they a thug, honest, revengeful etc and this can help you in making correct decisions.

Stockton Park have miniature screenshots/angles and no understanding of the behaviour of each individual player. They have no 'feel' for the actual game on the pitch and do not have the full picture.

Because of VAR we all have a better understanding on how difficult it is to referee a match. There will always be decisions that are contentious, not every decision is black or white. My biggest problem was keeping up with play for 90 minutes. I was fit then but a long clearance from a corner had me 50 meters from the ball and not in a good position to make any decision that had to be made.

I propose that we scrap VAR as it is killing the passion and the enjoyment of the game. Replace it with an assistant referee ON the pitch who can position themselves appropriately ON the pitch to cover more angles/distance etc. The referee will still make final decisions but the assistant can offer an opinion when required.

Just a thought.  :)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2020, 10:44:58 AM by Baldy »

Offline devilla

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1697 on: December 05, 2020, 01:03:19 PM »
I like the idea of a second official on the pitch which is a bit like the experiment they did with the official on the goal line. Does anyone know what happened to that?

If that was in place against West Ham, the foul against Watkins would have been seen and the whole offside shananigans could have been avoided.


Offline aldridgeboy

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1698 on: December 05, 2020, 02:07:50 PM »
Two umpires works well in Hockey.

Offline Toronto Villa

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1699 on: December 05, 2020, 02:13:41 PM »
If you got rid of VAR and added a second ref with two assistants I think everyone would take that over the disaster that it is today. I feel bad for refs having to keep up with today's incredible top level athletes. It would still be one ref in each half of the pitch and I would make it the decision of the on field team alone on all plays with the exception of goal line tech as needed.

Offline Baldy

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1700 on: December 05, 2020, 02:43:29 PM »
Currently, all the 4th official does is parade around the technical boxes getting bollocked by managers. They also lift a board every 45 minutes.

They would be better employed on the pitch, miked up to the main ref. An extra set of eyes and ears in the middle of the action can only be good.

Football is a real game played by real people in real time. It should not be treated as a video game (with stupid gadgets) by people sitting in the darkness at Stockley Park.  ::)




Offline Des Little

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1701 on: December 05, 2020, 10:34:06 PM »
West Ham fans crying on Twitter has to be the sweetest bit of irony you’ll see this weekend.

Offline Ads

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1702 on: December 06, 2020, 08:23:48 AM »
West Ham fans crying on Twitter has to be the sweetest bit of irony you’ll see this weekend.

"The boys are pretty relaxed about it". Shower of whoppers. Being beaten by them is going to irritate me for some time.

Looking at their forum, they're not so relaxed about it. I'm glad it was VAR that drew first blood. Mind you, they were dropping off them and getting deeper, like the negative shower they are, anyway. But still, the universe delivered balance.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 08:30:05 AM by Ads »

Offline The Edge

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1703 on: December 06, 2020, 11:57:17 AM »
West Ham fans crying on Twitter has to be the sweetest bit of irony you’ll see this weekend.

"The boys are pretty relaxed about it". Shower of whoppers. Being beaten by them is going to irritate me for some time.

Looking at their forum, they're not so relaxed about it. I'm glad it was VAR that drew first blood. Mind you, they were dropping off them and getting deeper, like the negative shower they are, anyway. But still, the universe delivered balance.
Well spotted Ads.Was it Declan Rice or Moyes that made the comment "the boys are pretty relaxed about it"?Their crying about var the previous week and now this week just makes them look like total wankers. The response after the Ollie Watkins farce should have been "we got one in our favour this time" Then I might have some sympathy with them but they can go fuck themselves now. That defeat at West Ham has really stuck in my craw. Can't wait for our "lads" to get revenge at Villa Park. Hopefully with a dodgy Var decision just to make it a little sweeter.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 06:32:06 PM by The Edge »

Offline Russ aka Big Nose

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1704 on: December 06, 2020, 12:12:45 PM »
Let's not forget that in relation to the 'goal' at West Ham, an official sat in an office and watched the incident several times in slow motion and couldn't spot the foul on Watkins - for the precisely the reason that VAR is shit, they are looking for minute infringements and reasons to be seen to be 'right'.

So the introduction of another official on the pitch doesn't address that. That means another set of eyes but will inevitably lead to uncertainty given different perspectives/opinions and endless discussions slowing the game further.

The beauty of football is that it is simple to understand and play and is (should be) a fluid and continuous game.

I can think of very few changes, interpretations or new rules in my lifetime that have been positive other than no tackling from behind (a license to wipe people out) and the back-pass law.

Tinkering often has unintended consequences - like the nonsense of the 't-shirt line' to bring clarity to the difference between the shoulder and the arm!!

Very unlikely to happen, but what I would like to see:
1. We recognise that there is some interpretation and that a single official makes a final judgement, even when supported by technology. Rugby is rightly referenced for the effective use of technology, but it is a different sport and crucially everyone involved recognises there is interpretation (pretty much every breakdown sees both sides committing an offence and everyone accepts the judgement of the ref).

2. All clubs and fans consider VAR in the context of what it is doing to the game as a whole - for better or worse - rather than in relation to the impact on their side as the present debate is mostly tribal and hence self-interest renders most comments meaningless as we all contradict ourselves, i.e. it's shit when we miss out and others need to 'suck it up' when it happens to them.

3. As VAR is not going away anytime soon - in real-time it should only be used to correct very obvious mistakes or things not spotted. The kind of thing that happens a few times a season to each side, not several instances in every game.
Critically, though I think all games should be reviewed and serious foul play identified and players cited and punished. This should include a review of what might already have been ruled by the match official on the day.
It would quickly be evident to players and clubs that they will not get away with serious foul play and games will improve quickly as they will not want to risk missing games. The review panel can include players and coaches as well as referees/former referees - in part because former players have insight to offer and also because it might limit some of the moaning from lazy pundits looking for easy comments to spout.

Not holding my breath and sadly I expect my enjoyment of the professional game to continue to diminish as a result.

Offline paul_e

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1705 on: December 06, 2020, 12:24:59 PM »
Let's not forget that in relation to the 'goal' at West Ham, an official sat in an office and watched the incident several times in slow motion and couldn't spot the foul on Watkins - for the precisely the reason that VAR is shit, they are looking for minute infringements and reasons to be seen to be 'right'.

So the introduction of another official on the pitch doesn't address that. That means another set of eyes but will inevitably lead to uncertainty given different perspectives/opinions and endless discussions slowing the game further.

The beauty of football is that it is simple to understand and play and is (should be) a fluid and continuous game.

I can think of very few changes, interpretations or new rules in my lifetime that have been positive other than no tackling from behind (a license to wipe people out) and the back-pass law.

Tinkering often has unintended consequences - like the nonsense of the 't-shirt line' to bring clarity to the difference between the shoulder and the arm!!

Very unlikely to happen, but what I would like to see:
1. We recognise that there is some interpretation and that a single official makes a final judgement, even when supported by technology. Rugby is rightly referenced for the effective use of technology, but it is a different sport and crucially everyone involved recognises there is interpretation (pretty much every breakdown sees both sides committing an offence and everyone accepts the judgement of the ref).

2. All clubs and fans consider VAR in the context of what it is doing to the game as a whole - for better or worse - rather than in relation to the impact on their side as the present debate is mostly tribal and hence self-interest renders most comments meaningless as we all contradict ourselves, i.e. it's shit when we miss out and others need to 'suck it up' when it happens to them.

3. As VAR is not going away anytime soon - in real-time it should only be used to correct very obvious mistakes or things not spotted. The kind of thing that happens a few times a season to each side, not several instances in every game.
Critically, though I think all games should be reviewed and serious foul play identified and players cited and punished. This should include a review of what might already have been ruled by the match official on the day.
It would quickly be evident to players and clubs that they will not get away with serious foul play and games will improve quickly as they will not want to risk missing games. The review panel can include players and coaches as well as referees/former referees - in part because former players have insight to offer and also because it might limit some of the moaning from lazy pundits looking for easy comments to spout.

Not holding my breath and sadly I expect my enjoyment of the professional game to continue to diminish as a result.


The point of having the TV screen at pitchside is entirely to make it the decision of a single official. The issue right now is that it's not working that way when they go to the screen and some decisions (offside and handball) are being made entirely by VAR.

I still think the underlying idea is ok but the implementation is just not fit for purpose.

Online Ad@m

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1706 on: December 06, 2020, 12:46:35 PM »
Quote
Rugby is rightly referenced for the effective use of technology, but it is a different sport and crucially everyone involved recognises there is interpretation (pretty much every breakdown sees both sides committing an offence and everyone accepts the judgement of the ref).

Some of this is down to the historic respect the ref has been given in rugby, but when it comes to video technology, a huge chunk of this respect is down to the fact the fans can see and hear exactly the same as the ref.  Occasionally there's still a residual difference of opinion, but generally, once the ref has explained his decision there's not much left to argue.

Australian "soccer" did an experiment not long ago where they miked the ref up in a game which had VAR and it was a breath of fresh air.

Half the trouble with football is that the powers that be treat fans like children/imbeciles - "we can't let them see the replay as they might kick off", "we can't let them hear the bad language of the players as it might upset them". It's frankly bollocks and if they got over that the options available would be much improved.

Offline Brend'Watkins

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1707 on: December 06, 2020, 01:38:52 PM »
Some years ago the offside rule was determined by the adjudged offside player being behind the last defender. Basically saying that level with the last defender is offside.  It was then changed to level being not offside to hopefully produce more goals in the game. With VAR that has now gone and we’ve reverted back to the previous rule.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 01:41:46 PM by Brend'Watkins »

Offline London Villan

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1708 on: December 06, 2020, 05:28:26 PM »
The ref being mic'd up would at least explain a lot of the decisions - as it does in NFL, cricket, rugby etc etc, Football's arrogance is to be expected.

Offline Lastfootstamper

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1709 on: December 06, 2020, 06:14:52 PM »
I honestly can't see how micing up the ref wouldn't lead to making football grounds and crowds even more volatile. I'm a placid man, if I see a goose I'm more likely to nip back to the car to get the bag of emergency bird feed I keep in the glove box for just such occasions than I am to say 'boo' to it, but all that gets the afternoon off at the Villa. If you think that my opinion of the w****r in the black is going to be improved by my getting to listen to why he's f***ing wrong AGAIN, then you're as mistaken as he usually is.

 


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