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Author Topic: VAR  (Read 129379 times)

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1710 on: December 01, 2020, 08:42:58 PM »
It would be interesting if they reset the poll at the top of this page. I'd be amazed if more that 5% are still in favour.

I didn't actually realise I was in the "for" camp. I'm still in favour of it in principle, I just despise how it's been implemented!

I think a reset of the poll would be useful but with an added option of "for but with changes".

Yeah I'm of some POV as you. I naively thought it would stop the injustice of being denied stonewall penalty e.g. when someone handles on the line and ref misses it.

I never thought it would be used in a way that some obvious penalties still get ignored and yet it gives so many where there's hardly any contact. And don't get me started on offsides like last night and the one Leeds got chalked off the other week.

Offline paul_e

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1711 on: December 01, 2020, 08:43:56 PM »
GPS in the little device they all wear on their backs would at least identify if the torso of the player is on/offside. What has the game come to that we are discussing that though.
I actualy think that's a fine solution.  No lines drawn, no woories about toeso or heels, no interpretation.  If the technology works then either a player is offside or he isn't.  Pefrect.  What I'm not sure of is whether the technology is accurate enough though.  I also appreciate this can't be replicated at grass routes, but then neither can VAR.

Well commercial GPS systems are accurate to about 16ft so they'd be a marginal improvement on what we have currently!!

The obvious problem is that the direction you're facing would have a big impact, regardless of the accuracy.

The wide lines thing would be a big improvement but the real problem is that the system isn't being used as it was designed. I'm in favour of a version of VAR that follows proper principles of 'clear and obvious error' and allows the whole 'play' to be reviewed.

On last night you put a margin for error in the offside (the 5cm lines thing is a good idea, I'd also only allow lines for feet and head) but you also have the VAR check the foul. Get it right and either the goal stands or we get a penalty, which are the only 2 reasonable outcomes.

Offline Lastfootstamper

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1712 on: December 01, 2020, 08:54:19 PM »
Don't forget though that one of the beauties of football is that everyone, everywhere, regardless of age, sex or ability, plays to the same rules. So whatever outcome you knot-twisters dream up, remember that apart from ten games played once a week in this country, your madcap solutions have still got to be adjudged by some poor sap with a tiny flag.

Offline paul_e

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1713 on: December 01, 2020, 10:20:02 PM »
Don't forget though that one of the beauties of football is that everyone, everywhere, regardless of age, sex or ability, plays to the same rules. So whatever outcome you knot-twisters dream up, remember that apart from ten games played once a week in this country, your madcap solutions have still got to be adjudged by some poor sap with a tiny flag.

This sort of comment is silly because whilst it's true in theory it hasn't been in practice for a very long time, the simple fact that at most amateur levels the linesmen aren't neutral blows the whole idea out.

Offline Lastfootstamper

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1714 on: December 01, 2020, 10:40:32 PM »
Don't forget though that one of the beauties of football is that everyone, everywhere, regardless of age, sex or ability, plays to the same rules. So whatever outcome you knot-twisters dream up, remember that apart from ten games played once a week in this country, your madcap solutions have still got to be adjudged by some poor sap with a tiny flag.

This sort of comment is silly because whilst it's true in theory it hasn't been in practice for a very long time, the simple fact that at most amateur levels the linesmen aren't neutral blows the whole idea out.

You mean amateur like Women's Premier League, Women's Premier League 2, Championship, League One, League Two, Conference, and so on quite a long way down the pyramid?

Online Small Rodent

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1715 on: December 01, 2020, 11:00:07 PM »
If Watkins had missed...would the VAR cabin boys have been looking at a foul to get themselves noticed?

Offline paul_e

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1716 on: December 01, 2020, 11:56:28 PM »
Don't forget though that one of the beauties of football is that everyone, everywhere, regardless of age, sex or ability, plays to the same rules. So whatever outcome you knot-twisters dream up, remember that apart from ten games played once a week in this country, your madcap solutions have still got to be adjudged by some poor sap with a tiny flag.

This sort of comment is silly because whilst it's true in theory it hasn't been in practice for a very long time, the simple fact that at most amateur levels the linesmen aren't neutral blows the whole idea out.

You mean amateur like Women's Premier League, Women's Premier League 2, Championship, League One, League Two, Conference, and so on quite a long way down the pyramid?

No but I'm not sure what your point is now. at first you were suggesting that the rules should be the same at all levels, now you seem to be suggeasting the cut off for changes just needs to lower down the pyramid. Pick an argument and then we can discuss it.

Online Ad@m

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1717 on: December 02, 2020, 12:08:53 AM »
If Watkins had missed...would the VAR cabin boys have been looking at a foul to get themselves noticed?

100% yes. Another reason it's a load of old bollocks.

Offline paul_e

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1718 on: December 02, 2020, 12:15:17 AM »
If Watkins had missed...would the VAR cabin boys have been looking at a foul to get themselves noticed?

100% yes. Another reason it's a load of old bollocks.

Absolutely, the limitations of what they can and can't look at are stupid, the bang the drum for rugby yet again one of the best things about how they do it is that when it goes to the TV official they check the whole final phase of play for anything dodgy from either team as well as checking the actual incident, they also have the authority to bring something to the attention of the ref if they believe he's missed it, another change that football could look at. As it's topical right now imagine that being in place when the cameras caught JT clearly being a twat towards Anton Ferdinand or various other off the ball stuff that has happened over the years.

Offline tony scott

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1719 on: December 04, 2020, 08:59:24 PM »
Iíll say it I hate Var but I like goal line technology. I realise that VAR has significant support, to give us some respite I purpose that 50 percent of all home games are Var free, this enables some enjoyment for those who think it ruining the game, whilst also giving match officials the necessary experience for their independent decision making.  Each club pre season would nominate which games where to be VAR Free

Offline Ben.H

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1720 on: December 04, 2020, 10:24:12 PM »
If Watkins had missed...would the VAR cabin boys have been looking at a foul to get themselves noticed?

100% yes. Another reason it's a load of old bollocks.

Absolutely, the limitations of what they can and can't look at are stupid, the bang the drum for rugby yet again one of the best things about how they do it is that when it goes to the TV official they check the whole final phase of play for anything dodgy from either team as well as checking the actual incident, they also have the authority to bring something to the attention of the ref if they believe he's missed it, another change that football could look at. As it's topical right now imagine that being in place when the cameras caught JT clearly being a twat towards Anton Ferdinand or various other off the ball stuff that has happened over the years.
Imagine how long that would take: it takes them minutes at the moment just to deal with an offside. If you're at the ground you haven't got a clue what's going on at the moment and looking at the whole phase of play would make things ten times worse.  The game was better without it.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2020, 10:27:19 PM by Ben.H »

Offline exigo

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1721 on: December 05, 2020, 09:50:49 AM »
Survey on VAR up on the BBC, plus the full list of teams affected most by it.

BBC linky

Offline villa_cads

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1722 on: December 05, 2020, 10:13:14 AM »
The issue with VAR is trying to attain a high level of accuracy based on subjective decisions. I saw an official recently stating that accuracy in decisions had improved by a few percentage points due to VAR, which struct me as an odd metric to focus on given the massive interruptions VAR is having on the game (not to mention that they're effectively making their own homework).

When there were lots of calls for technology to be introduced it was when the officials had missed proper obvious decisions. In those events you only needed another quick look to see the defender got the ball or he's two yards offside. The premier league introduced VAR by saying there would be a high threshold bar for intervention, which is simply not the case.

VAR should have a max review duration of say 30 seconds, if it's not clear then, keep to the onfield decision. No drawing straight lines based on oblique camera angles, or slow frame replays. No reviewing every goal just in case. Put more faith in the officials (that was difficult to write) and except that marginal calls will always be debated.. that's part of the fun surely, no one wants to have to admit their team were accurately beaten!

Online GordonCowansisthegreatest

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1723 on: December 05, 2020, 10:14:10 AM »
The trouble with a table like that is it doesn't differentiate between clear off sides or the dubious, contrived decisions that are becoming so contentious.
Off side should be the leading foot and only if there is daylight between the two and none of this stupid 1mm lines. minimum 5mm.

Online Baldy

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1724 on: December 05, 2020, 10:41:14 AM »
Many years ago, I was an amateur referee and the biggest thing in my favour was the players were approximately 6 feet tall. At Stockton Park, they are looking at their screen where the players are approximately 2 inches tall.

I can assure you that when an incident is magnified by 36 times you get a much clearer picture of what actually happened. Was their contact, was it a dive etc. On the pitch, you hear a lot of banter and this can also give you a better idea of individual players behaviour. Are they a thug, honest, revengeful etc and this can help you in making correct decisions.

Stockton Park have miniature screenshots/angles and no understanding of the behaviour of each individual player. They have no 'feel' for the actual game on the pitch and do not have the full picture.

Because of VAR we all have a better understanding on how difficult it is to referee a match. There will always be decisions that are contentious, not every decision is black or white. My biggest problem was keeping up with play for 90 minutes. I was fit then but a long clearance from a corner had me 50 meters from the ball and not in a good position to make any decision that had to be made.

I propose that we scrap VAR as it is killing the passion and the enjoyment of the game. Replace it with an assistant referee ON the pitch who can position themselves appropriately ON the pitch to cover more angles/distance etc. The referee will still make final decisions but the assistant can offer an opinion when required.

Just a thought.  :)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2020, 10:44:58 AM by Baldy »

 


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