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Author Topic: Dean Smith - Confirmed  (Read 1067167 times)

Offline Drummond

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14385 on: September 21, 2021, 10:57:26 AM »
When Bailey was on and Everton had the ball it looked more like a back 4 as Cash retreated more than Bailey and Mings stayed quite wide.  I'm surprised it's such a controversial issue tbh.

If we all agreed, this place wouldn't be what it is.... And let's face it, there's not much else to argue/moan about! Which is nice.

Offline john e

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14386 on: September 21, 2021, 11:12:51 AM »
In the first half the three centre backs were definitely spread across in a line and the two fullbacks pushed right forward as wingbacks canít say for all the time but for much of the time in that first half
So it was defo a 352

Canít say Iím a big fan of it but thatís the way it is
I still maintain itís more about players rather than formations so as soon as you bring Bailey on for one of the fullbacks
no matter what position you think he plays in we are going to be a more positive attacking force

My point is why wait an hour Before trying to win the game
I know itís a Southgate template leaving all your attacking players on the bench to bring on after an hour and obviously that has worked for him and it did for us against Everton
But is that the way to go say against Chelsea tomorrow or Man United if it goes wrong youíre then bringing them on when weíre already two nil down the game is gone
Itís a dilemma






Offline Monty

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14387 on: September 21, 2021, 11:14:47 AM »
John, I think the Southgate point can be left aside. Nobody at club level seriously takes their cues from Southgate - he takes his from them, from people like Conte etc.

Offline john e

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14388 on: September 21, 2021, 11:23:55 AM »
John, I think the Southgate point can be left aside. Nobody at club level seriously takes their cues from Southgate - he takes his from them, from people like Conte etc.

I know but there still is similarities whether we like it or not

And those similarities are very simple England and Villa are blessed with creative and attacking talent
So we had Buendia Bailey El ghazi Traore On the bench
After the first sub we had three Central defenders 2 full backs and a holding midfield Player (Nakamba)
With all those creative place still sitting on the bench

That is an absolute 100% fact unarguable you can put your head in the sand all you like and pretend otherwise but the game was turned on its head when he used one of those players exactly the same as Southgate did in the Euros

So Iím sorry but the similarity is there whether you like it or not
Iím not saying itís an exact copy Iím saying itís a similar tactic, Southgate uses 2 holding midfielders so there is a difference but like I keep saying itís not always about formations itís about players
Keeping your creative attacking players on the bench for an hour is a tactic used by Smith and Southgate over the last couple of games

Will it turn into the tactic of choice Iíve no idea



« Last Edit: September 21, 2021, 11:26:33 AM by john e »

Offline Monty

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14389 on: September 21, 2021, 11:28:50 AM »
Southgate sits deep and waits for the counter, we step up and squeeze the space in the middle, it's a very different way of playing. It's like Mourinho and Guardiola both like 4-3-3, but they use it completely differently - and anyway, Southgate uses 3-4-3, we use 3-5-2, two central strikers and three midfielders to strangle the opposition and make forward runs rather than two, sitting deep, just blocking. And when Southgate wants to make the change, it's never to make a wing back into virtually an out-and-out winger. That shows you something about how high up he wants them to play, whatever shape they're arranged in.

Offline john e

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14390 on: September 21, 2021, 11:32:22 AM »
Southgate sits deep and waits for the counter, we step up and squeeze the space in the middle, it's a very different way of playing. It's like Mourinho and Guardiola both like 4-3-3, but they use it completely differently - and anyway, Southgate uses 3-4-3, we use 3-5-2, two central strikers and three midfielders to strangle the opposition and make forward runs rather than two, sitting deep, just blocking. And when Southgate wants to make the change, it's never to make a wing back into virtually an out-and-out winger. That shows you something about how high up he wants them to play, whatever shape they're arranged in.

You look at formations used
I look at players used

Thatís the difference between us
Weíll never agree but thatís the beauty of it all
UTV

Offline Monty

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14391 on: September 21, 2021, 11:33:25 AM »
Isn't anyone with eyes looking at both?

Online cdbullyweefan

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14392 on: September 21, 2021, 11:41:48 AM »
Mings was as left back as left back gets for a good 15 minutes. Bailey was playing left wing. It may not have been the intention, but it was the formation on the pitch.

Exactly.

So if Mings went to left back and Konsa went to right back, who were the two centre-halves in this imaginary back four?

Konsa didn't go to right back. Cash was playing, you might have noticed his goal?

Offline john e

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14393 on: September 21, 2021, 11:44:03 AM »
Isn't anyone with eyes looking at both?

Good point
But we end up going round in circles in the end so we obviously differ somewhere

Itís going to be interesting to see what he does in the next couple of games,
I just have a problem with having the best part of £100 million worth of attacking talent on the bench and leaving it there for an hour hoping to keep it tight not concede then having a go

But like I say we can go round in circles all day long
I havenít got a caravan to clean but I do have to go out and get some rice for tonights tea
so Have a good rest of the day





Offline ozzjim

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14394 on: September 21, 2021, 01:00:45 PM »
If that wasn't obviously 4 at the back for a good 15 minutes I'm not sure what you lot were watching. Anyone attempting to make a case that Bailey was anything other than a very advanced wide forward either off their rocker.

I love this argument. Utterly pointless and very entertaining.

Offline Ads

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14395 on: September 21, 2021, 01:12:33 PM »
Shapes are fundamentally defensive anyway. With Rondon going off, they barely occupied us in the final third in any event.

Mings starting point remained the gap between the 6 and 18 Yard line. Smith stated that both Konsa and Mings were pushed wider and instructed to get out.

It was a very cavalier and fluid 3 at the back.

For Baileys goal you had Ings dropping into 10 and Bailey pushing up to the highest point in a wide forward slot. Tough to defend when we're full of confidence and crashing forwards.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2021, 01:14:07 PM by Ads »

Offline Neil Hawkes

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14396 on: September 21, 2021, 01:51:31 PM »
John, I think the Southgate point can be left aside. Nobody at club level seriously takes their cues from Southgate - he takes his from them, from people like Conte etc.

I know but there still is similarities whether we like it or not

And those similarities are very simple England and Villa are blessed with creative and attacking talent
So we had Buendia Bailey El ghazi Traore On the bench
After the first sub we had three Central defenders 2 full backs and a holding midfield Player (Nakamba)
With all those creative place still sitting on the bench

That is an absolute 100% fact unarguable you can put your head in the sand all you like and pretend otherwise but the game was turned on its head when he used one of those players exactly the same as Southgate did in the Euros

So Iím sorry but the similarity is there whether you like it or not
Iím not saying itís an exact copy Iím saying itís a similar tactic, Southgate uses 2 holding midfielders so there is a difference but like I keep saying itís not always about formations itís about players
Keeping your creative attacking players on the bench for an hour is a tactic used by Smith and Southgate over the last couple of games

Will it turn into the tactic of choice Iíve no idea
If they where on from the beginning, the opposing manager can bring on subs very early to counter their positive effect, then the element of surprise & tactical change has been lost.
The set up we started with stopped an unbeaten team in their tracks and allowed our management to see where the weaknesses where during the game.
Just a thought.

Offline CT Villan

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14397 on: September 21, 2021, 01:53:27 PM »
Does this help the formation debate...


Offline Sexual Ealing

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14398 on: September 21, 2021, 01:54:28 PM »
It's reminded me to buy a poppy when the time comes.

Offline nigel

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #14399 on: September 21, 2021, 02:16:09 PM »
Does this help the formation debate...



Pretty conclusive

 


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