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Author Topic: Dean Smith - Confirmed  (Read 1523029 times)

Offline cdbearsfan

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8460 on: June 30, 2020, 11:42:45 PM »
I can't really be arsed to debate Houllier again, it's nearly as tedious as the MON Wars. But we couldn't have kept him on even if we wanted to, he hasn't been healthy for long enough to manager anywhere else since. So it's not really worth falling out over.

(He was merde, though).

Offline KevinGage

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8461 on: June 30, 2020, 11:43:01 PM »
He was trying to change MO’N’s anti football style with a more modern one and he was trying to do it with MO’N’s players.  Towards the end of that season we were starting to play some very good stuff as he started to bring his own signings in.  But then he had a coronary.

As I recall it, we started playing well when he was away from the side.

Online kippaxvilla2

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8462 on: June 30, 2020, 11:43:39 PM »
All we needed was Titi Camara to complete the rebuild.

Offline Legion

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8463 on: June 30, 2020, 11:44:24 PM »
Don't forget about Benni.

Offline Legion

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8464 on: June 30, 2020, 11:45:13 PM »
Anyone remember Carlton Palmer being linked with us?

Offline dave.woodhall

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8465 on: June 30, 2020, 11:46:59 PM »
Houllier wasn't thinking long term at all.  Not about us anyway. Maybe his pension pot.

He was in no rush to take the job in the first instance, had little interest in the youth or academy players and gave the air of pure O'Leary smug mode reminiscing about his old club pretty much from the outset.  Every day in the job he was doing us a favour. At least O'Leary gave us that promising first year.

Darren Bent was signed at his peak for a club record fee and the players Houllier had lined up in the summer were   closer to the age group O'Neill was tapping up. The money he burned through for pretty average players at Liverpool should give some indication what he was about. He was blessed with two natural talents in Gerrard and Owen coming through at roughly the same time and Carragher and Fowler as good as anything in the country to offset the El Haddj Diouf/ Cisse and other shite deals.

He had Gabby, James Collins and Dicky Dunne's number pretty early on, so I'd credit him for that and little else.

The players he signed in January were Darren Bent (25), Michael Bradley (23), Jean Makoun (26) plus the 18 year old French lad whose name escapes me who failed the medical. He took the job as soon as he was able and gave plenty of opportunities to youth players. From January onwards, once the injury list had cleared up our form was top six. 

Offline hilts_coolerking

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8466 on: June 30, 2020, 11:48:24 PM »
He hadn't managed a club for 3 years, hadn't managed in England for 6, and had a history of heart trouble.  It was never going to work.

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8467 on: July 01, 2020, 12:09:18 AM »
He was trying to change MO’N’s anti football style with a more modern one and he was trying to do it with MO’N’s players.  Towards the end of that season we were starting to play some very good stuff as he started to bring his own signings in.  But then he had a coronary.

Even that was a missed chance though. Houllier was in his mid 60s, hadn't managed in premier league for six years (indeed any club for 3 given he left Lyon in June 2007) and was basically in semi retirement at French FA as post above says. He couldn't even come in straight away as we had to keep McDonald in charge for the Stoke and Bolton games after the September international break.

I could understand the clubs thinking but couldn't we just have got in a younger and healthier coach (given GH sadly had more health trouble in that run in) to execute the plan? There must've been a Pochettino type available at the time.

That time indicated to me Lerner wasn't as good an owner as he was cracked up to be. Seemed the initial plan was to give Kevin McDonald the job but the Newcastle 6-0 sent everyone into a mass panic when it was just a really bad day at the office. We beat Everton 1-0 a week later.

Easy to say now of course but we should've just bided our time for a few more weeks and widened our search into europe for manager prepared to leave club or wait until a few sackings took place around October. Houllier only won 1 of his first six games so not like we'd have lost any ground with that approach.

Think the next managerial appointment whenever it is is a really big one for me regarding these owners. Will it be same old safe choice or will we go for a bold appointment whichever division we're in given other championship clubs have got in europa league/champions league standard managers over last 5 years.

We actually did it with Di Matteo but of course that was the one that didn't work out!

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8468 on: July 01, 2020, 12:14:38 AM »
Houllier wasn't thinking long term at all.  Not about us anyway. Maybe his pension pot.

He was in no rush to take the job in the first instance, had little interest in the youth or academy players and gave the air of pure O'Leary smug mode reminiscing about his old club pretty much from the outset.  Every day in the job he was doing us a favour. At least O'Leary gave us that promising first year.

Darren Bent was signed at his peak for a club record fee and the players Houllier had lined up in the summer were   closer to the age group O'Neill was tapping up. The money he burned through for pretty average players at Liverpool should give some indication what he was about. He was blessed with two natural talents in Gerrard and Owen coming through at roughly the same time and Carragher and Fowler as good as anything in the country to offset the El Haddj Diouf/ Cisse and other shite deals.

He had Gabby, James Collins and Dicky Dunne's number pretty early on, so I'd credit him for that and little else.

The players he signed in January were Darren Bent (25), Michael Bradley (23), Jean Makoun (26) plus the 18 year old French lad whose name escapes me who failed the medical. He took the job as soon as he was able and gave plenty of opportunities to youth players. From January onwards, once the injury list had cleared up our form was top six. 

Bradley hardly played after signing. Went on to have a good career in Italy. Makoun was hit and miss and struggled with pace of the league but could see the talent was there, bit of a Douglas Luiz although his career fizzled out after leaving.

Probably still shows the short term thinking around back. Reo Coker and Petrov was still the regular midfield combination. Unless NRC basically lied to us about signing a new deal, playing him every week and then seeing him leave on a free wasn't the smartest move.

I get we were in a relegation battle but unlike this team you always felt the quality of attacking players in final third would win us games when it really mattered and so it proved in the last two months.

Offline Toronto Villa

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8469 on: July 01, 2020, 12:26:29 AM »
I watched some highlights of games we played earlier in the season against some top teams. While we didn’t win any of those games our ambition from the start, our tactical approach for 90% of the time was just great. What the fuck happened to the team that played Spurs, Arsenal, Man U away or Liverpool at home? We really had a go. And when you watch the surrender vs Wolves or the embarrassment vs Chelsea. What has happened to that Dean Smith? When did his flame go out?

Offline rougegorge

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8470 on: July 01, 2020, 12:32:19 AM »
Smith was the right appointment at the time. Same as MON was, similar to BFR and Brian Little.
Things just don't work out sometimes...
In hindsight, Smith turned out to be a good choice to get us up, but at the time of the appointment he wasn't an obvious choice; other than Brentford played some good football some of the time (notably against us) and he was a Villa fan.

His credentials and results, whilst very respectable for the clubs concerned, weren't screaming out and weren't particularly progressive :
Walsall League 1
2012 - 19th
2013 - 9th
2014 - 13th
2015 - 14th
2015-16 started season well
Brentford Championship
2016 - 9th
2017- 10th
2018 - 9th

Overall, it would seem thus far, he's had just the one outstanding season as a manager.

Even so, I was hoping for something better this season.

Being totally pedantic here and no bearing on the smith in or out debate, but didn’t he get Walsall to the play offs one season? I’m sure they lost to Barnsley in the league one semis, same year they got to a cup final and lost.

It was a cup game. I went. They were shit. Got thrashed 4-0 I think.
Yes, Walsall lost the 2014-15 FL Trophy final  to Bristol City (2-0 I think), but they reached the playoffs the season after, but Smith had left before Christmas.

Offline Stinkin_Thinkin

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8471 on: July 01, 2020, 12:33:55 AM »
The way I understood, as part of a long term strategy to ensure stability, the new management structure (DOF/head coach instead of manager) was brought in to enable the club to hire and fire quickly and easily without an O'Neill style hangover. Much was written about this southampton/Brentford model when we appointed Dean Smith. I've very suprised with the results he's still in charge. Althought, my statto friend tells me our xG stat has improved since the restart.

Offline RamboandBruno

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8472 on: July 01, 2020, 06:38:34 AM »
Houllier wasn't thinking long term at all.  Not about us anyway. Maybe his pension pot.

He was in no rush to take the job in the first instance, had little interest in the youth or academy players and gave the air of pure O'Leary smug mode reminiscing about his old club pretty much from the outset.  Every day in the job he was doing us a favour. At least O'Leary gave us that promising first year.

Darren Bent was signed at his peak for a club record fee and the players Houllier had lined up in the summer were   closer to the age group O'Neill was tapping up. The money he burned through for pretty average players at Liverpool should give some indication what he was about. He was blessed with two natural talents in Gerrard and Owen coming through at roughly the same time and Carragher and Fowler as good as anything in the country to offset the El Haddj Diouf/ Cisse and other shite deals. He didn't have that luxury with us, so I don't see how it could have worked based purely on his own deals.

He had Gabby, James Collins and Dicky Dunne's number pretty early on, so I'd credit him for that and little else.

I suppose you shouldn't judge a manager's career with us on a couple of incidents and Houllier definitely has a touch of class and football acumen in managerial terms, that McLeish, Sherwood, Garde never had. But two things still grate me a bit, FA Cup QF replay at Man City, they were not the man city of now and to play a weakened team at that stage of the competition stunk. And obviously whimsically touching the never walk alone sign with a nostalgic look in his eye before kick off against that lot. I know there's a bigger picture but like an earlier poster said, it always felt to me like we were beneath him.
And despite the MON years eventually going sour and him walking out like that, those first few years gave me a pride back in my club that I hadn't had in a while and apart from the last few months of last season (Thanks Smith and co) haven't had since.

Offline Steve67

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8473 on: July 01, 2020, 08:39:22 AM »
So they are going to have an investigation into the recruitment? Does this mean how we recruited, or the method of identification and scouting?  Or is this more a case of, did Suso buy the Right/wrong players or has Smith failed to get the best out of them? A game of blame tennis. 

Purslow presided over all of it but can't blame himself I guess.  Are we honestly to believe that Smith had absolutely nothing to do with any of our signings?  Seems a strange way to run a club with players foisted upon the Head Coach and told, here, I bought you a present, get on with coaching him!  To be fair, whoever decided Danny Drinkwater and Pepe Reina were useful additions to the squad simply needs to tender their resignation.

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #8474 on: July 01, 2020, 08:53:01 AM »
As this will have been called for by Purslow “It says Recruitment and Scouting strategy”so that’s aimed squarely at Suso. This is Purslow building his arse covering ammunition.
Obviously it will put Smith under the light to the extent of his actual involvement.

 


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