NSWE Investment

[algy]

No good ever comes of building a new stadium unless you're a tinpot outfit like Reading. Stay where we are build where we can, the rest takes care of itself.

Especially when your existing stadium is Villa Park.

It's just a name. The North Stand and Doug Ellis are atrocious, both terrible stands with crap facilities. The Holte is slightly better and looks nice from the outside, but is still miles behind most modern stands. The Trinity is newest and has the best facilities, but is just a glass and concrete thing that isn't a patch on the architectural masterpiece that was there before. There's no parking to speak to, and transport to and from the ground is an absolute nightmare. The surrounding area is a very poor one, so there'd be no point in building anything else like a hotel even if there was the space.

Not a popular view I know, but then nor was Steven Gerrard as manager 3 short weeks ago...

Pretty much everyone I know who's not a Villa supporter, but has been to Villa Park, has commented - without prompting - on how much they like our ground.

I'm not against moving - the club moved from Wellington Road to Aston Lower Grounds before - but for me it'd need to be a move to a ground that has bigger than we could realistically build at the Lower Grounds, closer to the city centre, and impressive to the point where people talk about it as both the best football stadium in the world, and as an iconic piece of architecture for the city of Birmingham.

However, I do wonder if we might be better off just redeveloping the North Stand (bigger) and Witton Lane stand (posher). If we could get a decent capacity increase like that, I'd be inclined to go with that until we either get given a ground (like Man City / West Ham) or are in a position where we can sensibly build a ground that will be used for Champions League finals (so 90k capacity job - which we're miles off needing right now)

[Rico]

I was thinking about clubs that have moved out of their stadiums into nice new lego land bowls that they have financed themselves, so I'm not inclunding West Ham or Man City in this, and the only one who seem to have got better on the playing side are Leicester. Even Arsenal are not as successful on the pitch as they were when playing at Highbury.

Sunderland, Coventry, Bolton, Middlesbrough, Derby have all suffered since moving out of their traditional homes, so I think we should look to stay put and redevelop Villa Park as best we can over a period of say ten years or so. Start with the North Stand (I'd be in favour of a massive single tier stand), then do the Witton Lane stand. At the same time the club and the council should be working together on match day public transport.

[London Villan]

There are a couple of options to move - but it would take some massive ambition and the best part of £500m to do...

Alexander Stadium - could have been developed in the same way Man City's stadium was. Close to our roots, but even worse transport than Villa Park

NEC - blank canvas, better transport link but wrong side of town.

City centre - Smithfield - this would be the brave and ambitious choice. A world-class stadium in the heart of the city.


I can't see us moving though, so £100m on the North Stand and Witton Lane please.  We'll need to improve the transport - more trains, better queuing, more organised parking, better facilities and staff that can pour a beer in less than 15 minutes...

[London Villan]

There are a couple of options to move - but it would take some massive ambition and the best part of £500m to do...

Alexander Stadium - could have been developed in the same way Man City's stadium was. Close to our roots, but even worse transport than Villa Park

NEC - blank canvas, better transport links but the wrong side of town.

City centre - Smithfield - this would be the brave and ambitious choice. A world-class stadium in the heart of the city.


I can't see us moving though, so £100m on the North Stand and Witton Lane please.  We'll need to improve the transport - more trains, better queuing, more organised parking, better facilities and staff that can pour a beer in less than 15 minutes...

[LeeB]

I was thinking about clubs that have moved out of their stadiums into nice new lego land bowls that they have financed themselves, so I'm not inclunding West Ham or Man City in this, and the only one who seem to have got better on the playing side are Leicester. Even Arsenal are not as successful on the pitch as they were when playing at Highbury.

Sunderland, Coventry, Bolton, Middlesbrough, Derby have all suffered since moving out of their traditional homes, so I think we should look to stay put and redevelop Villa Park as best we can over a period of say ten years or so. Start with the North Stand (I'd be in favour of a massive single tier stand), then do the Witton Lane stand. At the same time the club and the council should be working together on match day public transport.

At least with Leicester they built it close to the old ground, so the match day rituals didn't change for the fans.
That would be pointless for us as we'd still be fucked getting in and out.
I wouldn't want us to move at all, but an obvious site would be the Alex site after the commonwealth games. Easier access and space to develop, and in our heartland.

[paul_e]

I'm mostly with Risso. I totally understand the emotional reasons for not moving but there are a lot of problems with the site right now so if the plan is a world class stadium with top quality facilities and huge amounts of corporate boxes, etc then I'm not sure if you'll get that where we are now.

The problem is with where you go, no on wants a ground out in the middle of nowhere but there's not a great deal of space anywhere that would be acceptable. You need a 'main' site for the stadium that's roughly 200m by 250m and then another 10000-15000m² for extra facilities and there's not many places that fit.



I'd be ok with moving if we could get a new ground with:
4 mostly distinct stands (not one of the big souless bowls that so many clubs go for but I could live with a linked concourse and a few rows of filling in the corners)
a massive single tier holte end done largely the same as the current stand (I mean a massive, 18-20k monster, with rail seating if possible)
2 sides largely based on the old trinity road stand
something 'different' for the other behind goal stand, I'd let the designers go a bit wild with this (but with key input from fan groups)


Aim for 65-70k, loads of corporate space and work with the council to get transport links sorted as part of the build. Then look at things like a museum to add more regular use to the site.

[ChicagoLion]

But that won’t happen Paul-e. We will end up with an Etihad/Amex/emirates type concrete steel soulless bowl.
It may or may not be central.
We fans don’t get to say.
So the choices stay and develop VP or take what you are given based on a set of criteria that probably do not have your best interests at heart.

[chrisw1]

I don't think there's any chance we'll move.  If we did there's no point trying to build a replica Villa park. The best you could hope for is a version of what Spurs have built.

The location of Evertons new ground is fantastic, on the docks on the edge of the City, it will be an incredible stadium.  If you're going to relocate then that's the way to do it.  But lets face it we would end up at the NEC.

We can easily get to 50-55k seats where we are and that should do us for the next 20 years.

[ChicagoLion]

I don't think there's any chance we'll move.  If we did there's no point trying to build a replica Villa park. The best you could hope for is a version of what Spurs have built.

The location of Evertons new ground is fantastic, on the docks on the edge of the City, it will be an incredible stadium.  If you're going to relocate then that's the way to do it.  But lets face it we would end up at the NEC.

We can easily get to 50-55k seats where we are and that should do us for the next 20 years.

The NEC is there a more soulless place in England?

[chrisw1]

I don't think there's any chance we'll move.  If we did there's no point trying to build a replica Villa park. The best you could hope for is a version of what Spurs have built.

The location of Evertons new ground is fantastic, on the docks on the edge of the City, it will be an incredible stadium.  If you're going to relocate then that's the way to do it.  But lets face it we would end up at the NEC.

We can easily get to 50-55k seats where we are and that should do us for the next 20 years.

The NEC is there a more soulless place in England?

Milton Keynes.  But I agree with your general point.

[pauliewalnuts]

Every fibre of my body would normally be against moving. That's the rectangle of grass we've played on for a very long time, and when I go to matches, I'm aware I am staring at the same rectangle of grass that my great grandfathers used to stare at mostly with the same expression of disappointment at what was happening on it.

However, I do think that the recent run of full houses have shown that there are some serious problems with accessibility to the stadium, before we even get onto extending it.

How, for example, could we realistically expand to say 60k, which seems to be becoming the benchmark for clubs like us, if the infrastructure can't really handle 42k?

It's not just about finding the space to expand the stands, it's about getting so many people to and from the ground as easily as possible.

That's why I suspect it's a subject they'll have discussed (although by what Purslow said about planning permission, it looks like we're staying put).

[Villan82]

I just did a double take! It's 21 years since the new Trinity was built (in my mind, it's just a few years ago!)! At that time, the Witton Lane and Holte End were both new stands and the North Stand was the oldest at 23 years old. Crikey. Surely at the Witton End we have ample space to compensate for what the Witton Lane side lacks in corporate and capacity? The Trinity facade could do with a touch up when they're on the job.

[pauliewalnuts]

I also wonder if when they talk about expansion, we incorrectly assume they mean only the north stand. The North Stand is horribly antiquated but the DE is really not much better, with horrible concourses with a lack of space.

[PeterWithe]

Do I understand that the tramline to the Alex goes along the Birchfield Rd to town? Will that ease some of the transport pain or has it been shelved?

[LeeB]

I also wonder if when they talk about expansion, we incorrectly assume they mean only the north stand. The North Stand is horribly antiquated but the DE is really not much better, with horrible concourses with a lack of space.

I think the, ahem, Within Lane Stand is worse from personal experience.

It's actually a worthy memorial for the man who's name is on the side, done on the cheap and second rate.