It's not Sherwood!

[olaftab]

What we need is some more stats on this thread.

More data did you say?

    
Index of Production
Index of Manufacturing
 2012JUN    96.4    97.3
 2012JUL    98.7    99.6
 2012AUG    98.6    98.6
 2012SEP    95.5    98.9
 2012OCT    95.0    97.4
 2012NOV    95.6    97.1
 2012DEC    96.5    98.4
 2013JAN    95.8    97.2
 2013FEB    96.1    97.0
 2013MAR    96.4    98.3
 2013APR    96.2    97.6
 2013MAY    96.8    98.0
 2013JUN    97.6    99.2
 2013JUL    97.3    98.6
 2013AUG    97.0    98.3
 2013SEP    98.3    99.7
 2013OCT    98.1    99.6
 2013NOV    97.9    99.6
 2013DEC    98.4    100.3
 2014JAN    98.1    100.5
 2014FEB    99.5    101.6
 2014MAR    99.4    102.0
 2014APR    99.5    102.7
 2014MAY    99.0    101.1
 2014JUN    99.0    101.7
 2014JUL    99.3    102.0
 2014AUG    99.2    102.2
 2014SEP    99.7

[Tokyo Sexwhale]

It seems the tactically inept Sherwood got significantly more out of them, than the much lauded and highly thought of tactical genius, modern progressive manager that is AVB.

Except he didn't, given that AVB had the better win % over his tenure.

At least get your bloody facts right.
Sherwood had a better win % than AVB, fact and that's with AVB having the world class, most expensive player in history for a whole season.

Sherwood got more out of the team than AVB did and improved then quite a lot.

Let's hope he can do the same for us.

Oh yes, get my facts right:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Sherwood#Managerial_statistics - 50% in all comps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A9_Villas-Boas#Managerial_statistics - 55% in all comps

AVB had Bale, but Sherwood had better squad depth (and it's not like Eriksen is some mediocre player anyway).

Someone above made a post about Sherwood having a higher PL win %, and I'm willing to accept that. But frankly, I'd much rather prefer the record in all competitions. I don't believe in this "prioritise the league" nonsense, especially when you had a deep squad of players like Spurs had (plus they were pretty much out of the CL race when he took over anyway).

Anyway, the win % was presented as a response to the suggestion that Sherwood got "significantly more" out of the Spurs players than AVB. That's quite clearly not true, because the results were pretty much the same. regardless of what win % you look at.

AVB's figures are padded out by cup wins against lower league no-hopers (and us in the Carling Cup) as well as mediocre group stage teams in the Europa League.

Sherwood's cup games were Arsenal, and teams in the later stages of the Europa League, particularly Benfica.

[hilts_coolerking]

I may be wrong as had a good day, but did you not say it was the wrong choice? If that is the case, tell me who we should have been looking to appoint

Do we have to play these fucking childish games?  I say X and you say 'X would never have come / X is shit / Sherwood is better than X'

If you're really interested in who I wanted, and why, you can look it up on the Lambert Replacement thread.  Now, perhaps you can tell me why I should be as happy with Sherwood as you are.

[olaftab]

What we need is some more stats on this thread.

I can't even begin to quantify anything involving Spurs that doesn't include even the slightest nod towards their wage bill.

I had to pull out all of the accounting big guns on that one.

I have it on good authority that their wage bill is a fraction of ours.

[garyfouroaks]

AVB's figures are padded out by cup wins against lower league no-hopers (and us in the Carling Cup) as well as mediocre group stage teams in the Europa League.

Sherwood's cup games were Arsenal, and teams in the later stages of the Europa League, particularly Benfica.

I can run with the argument that says that he is in situ now, cant be worse than Lambert, give him a chance.

But any attempt to big up his "record" as a manager is risible.

[olaftab]

Do we have to play these fucking childish games?  I say X and you say 'X would never have come / X is shit / Sherwood is better than X'

But Y Sherwood?

[villan from luton]

I may be wrong as had a good day, but did you not say it was the wrong choice? If that is the case, tell me who we should have been looking to appoint

Do we have to play these fucking childish games?  I say X and you say 'X would never have come / X is shit / Sherwood is better than X'

If you're really interested in who I wanted, and why, you can look it up on the Lambert Replacement thread.  Now, perhaps you can tell me why I should be as happy with Sherwood as you are.

To be fair, I am not that interested, you made a comment and I replied :-)

[adrenachrome]

There are some positives, particularly in relation to PL's reign.

Firstly, PL shrunk into his shell when the setbacks mounted up and this transmitted to the team. Can't see Sherwood ever shrinking, to be honest.   

Second, he will be forthright in his communication with the media. If he has got the hump about something, we will soon know. 

Thirdly, he will not say players are doing well when they aren't. 

Fourth, he will set up attacking teams, so we will not have to endure the same degree of boredom, particularly at VP.

There are downsides to all of these refreshing antidotes to Lamboism, but everything comes at a cost. 

I firmly believe though that posters whose main criticism of PL was that he was thick will be sorely disappointed if they think that TS is an improvement in this respect. And no, I do not have educational records, brain scans or any other objective data to back up this assertion.

Of course, the main issue is keeping us up, and given that relegation was pretty much guaranteed if PL was in charge, at least now we have a fighting chance. 

[ozzjim]

But it is of course a direct comparison. Only it doesn't fit the Sherwood is a useless oaf argument.

But it's not a direct comparison at all.

Sherwood took over AVB's job. One came after the other. Sherwood took over AVB's squad, team and signings, a team he'd had for a season and a half. That alone makes it an unequal argument.

I honestly could not give one tenth of one single fuck about Villas Boas, I genuinely couldn't, and it is a pointlessly futile argument for us as it doesn't really have any relevance, but the fact is, it is not a reasonable comparison for those reasons.

It's not even relevant, because frankly, who cares? The question at hand isn't about who did best out of one manager or another with a squad which was in sixth place or so.

I don't really care much about who did the best job there, I care about what one of the people concerned is being asked to do for us, and how qualified he is to do it.

No but it what we have got to go on.

Getting your knickers in a twist about it so much is just futile, instead some of the suggestions for alternatives have awful records, yet the guy appointed in a small sample has quite a good record and is ridiculed.

I loathe Sherwood. I have done for many years, I would even put him up there with my distaste for John Terry at 1 point, but there comes a point when looking at the positive of a situation is needed.

As for how qualified - god knows. How qualified was Lambert - look how that ended. Or indeed how qualified was O'Neill to spend all the gold in China and only come 6th?

Maybe it is about who is available, has a record of a quick impact, which he does, has a record of youth development, which he does for 5 years prior to his brief spell as manager, and has a record of leading a team. Maybe the criteria looked for was different - maybe he is a mate of Fox, or maybe he was recommended a while ago. One thing is for sure, I actually feel sorry for him already, because every bad result will be met with the inevitable hand wringing.

Hilts - please, do tell. Who would you have appointed, quickly, that could have kept us up and then built for the future?

It is not bigging up his record either, simply, as part of a discussion, it is looking at his record in comparison to the person in charge of the same group of players in that particular season. Which strangely is apparently not a direct comparison. It is looking at the only past performance we have to go on and trying to make the best of it.

Damn this place can be bloody miserable.

[Pat McMahon]

Oh.....good luck Sherwood by the way.....I will back you simply because you are now the manager of the greatest club in the world!

Please prove me wrong!

You want him to prove we are not the greatest club in the world?!!

[villan from luton]

Hilts will not come up with a better alternative, I am warming to the idea of someone putting their points across, apparently Ugo is going to be on board and he is a bright bloke

[hilts_coolerking]

Hilts - please, do tell. Who would you have appointed, quickly, that could have kept us up and then built for the future?

This is what bugs me.  We appoint Sherwood, who a week ago very few people were clamouring for, and not only are we now expected to be positive about a man whose managerial career encompasses 28 games - and incidentally a man who many loathed, as you did, this time last week - but we're also expected to buy that he was not only the best possible candidate but the only possible candidate, someone who could not possibly have been improved on.  He's gone from being regarded as a mouthy tosser, to a contender and to the best candidate in less than a week.  And now he's been appointed you're asking me to believe we couldn't have done better?  It's mental.

As I said before, if you think the sum total of 14 good results makes someone qualified - and in fact more qualified than anyone else - to become the Villa manager then good luck to you.  Regardless of whatever qualities Sherwood may or may not have surely 14 good results is a feeble basis for appointing any manager, particularly when the club concerned is in such a dangerous position?

[hilts_coolerking]

Hilts will not come up with a better alternative, I am warming to the idea of someone putting their points across, apparently Ugo is going to be on board and he is a bright bloke

I already have.  Go find it.  I'm not doing your work for you.

[villan from luton]

Hilts will not come up with a better alternative, I am warming to the idea of someone putting their points across, apparently Ugo is going to be on board and he is a bright bloke

I already have.  Go find it.  I'm not doing your work for you.

Excellent response lol

[Damo70]

What we need is some more stats on this thread.

I can't even begin to quantify anything involving Spurs that doesn't include even the slightest nod towards their wage bill.

I had to pull out all of the accounting big guns on that one.

I have it on good authority that their wage bill is a fraction of ours.

I always think that without Deadly Doug, MON, Bono, The McCanns, TV Boxsets and The Spurs Wage Bill H&V would wither and die. Together they all keep us going in between new managerial appointments and something being built or knocked down in town.