How do we change the 'cultural' make up of football crowds?

[Sexual Ealing]

I started going to VP on a regular basis in 1971. Start of the second season in the old third division. It never occurred to me that I was not white and people all around me were white. To me they were all 1 colour ..well two...Claret & Blue. I was 13 and I went in secret without telling my Dad as he had banned me from going once he found out that the previous December I had gone to the League Cup semi final match. His reason for this ban was for my safety as skinheads were at large and of course very much involved in football violence. He was right as I had to leg it through Aston park after every game or go and hide in my mate's house in Holte road to get away from a severe beating. Now and than I got caught and got a smack or two but that did not deter me. It was all part of the fun. Once in the Holte End a big fat bloke turned around  when he saw me  and started with "what the fuck are you doing  here paki" and followed with the  most vitriolic  onslaught of profanities  you can imagine. I just moved to another part of HE and watched the game. This sort of thing happened quite often but not as vicious as on that occasion. However I was not going to let some wankers spoil what I loved doing. That being watch the Villa. Football crowds reflect Society so there will always be 10 to 20% who just don't like people because they are different. I would be doing a disservice to the other 80%+ by turning away from VP.
Of course 70's and 80's were bad and this was also the time when the Asian and Black community around VP grew. Almost all household eventually were occupied by them. When I talk to friends and family, who live in Aston and Witton, about Aston Villa all they remember is abuse they got from Villa supporters before and after the game. That therefore deterred them from "joining in" to the football community as they feared the worst and felt that they will not be accepted. In fact some of them were annoyed with me for doing what I was doing!
Things have improved a great deal since than. I see now that supporters, and I mean white, show a great deal of respect to the community.  Years ago walking through Upper Sutton Street etc was embarrassing as Villa supporters  would mouth off something abusive about an Asian household or coloured people walking past  will almost  always get pushed. Now days I have seen fans non abusive, more caring and sometimes stand aside if two or three locals have to walk past them.
However some elements and some people are not changing. A lot of people who consider themselves to be aracist adapt "pack mentality" and either join in or provide indirect encouragement to instances of racist behaviour. About 3 seasons ago we were playing Boro and losing. Mido was subbed and took an awful long time to walk off the pitch. A fellow ST holder about 2 seats away from me in centre Trinity shouted "Get off the pitch you fuckin terrorist" a slight pause followed by "Muslim bastard". Now this attracted a large amount of laughter from those around him which was disappointing and I personally found it hurtful.
 The one thing that would help a great deal is if those fellow supporters who regard themselves as decent non racist people had confronted him rather than providing encouragement by their reaction.
 
The question I ask, Ladies and Gentlemen, is:
Would you guys do the right thing in a similar situation?

Great post.

Like CN'D Cooper, I'd like to say I'd have spoken up but I fear that I wouldn't have.

As someone said on the last page, it makes little sense to 'target' the poor and expect them to pay £40 every fortnight, but a couple of freebies to local households might do a power of good.

[Sexual Ealing]

Returning to the theme, it's actually demented for anybody not already somehow ingrained in the 'culture' of football to take up supporting any team apart from Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool, Celtic or Rangers.

Pre-Sky, at least it was an affordable madness, but to expect people to fork out £500 a season for the monotonous ennui that caring about a mediocre team involves is bonkers.

It almost certainly is pointless for the club to try too hard in this regard. Why would any self-respecting, intelligent human opt for this?

Love, joy and intrigue exist - and they're free, and they're seldom to be found on Saturdays in B6!

[ROBBO]

Unfortunately Sky and the footballing governing bodies have all but destroyed the game for most supporters.To get big crowds you need success on the pitch, to do that you need the kind of money that few owners have, so unless the rules of ownership change attendences at all but a few grounds will diminish. The game changed as i grew up, when i was a nipper you were taught to respect your elders, shouting out obscenities was not tolerated and after game violence was a rarity. At AFL games over here there are nearly as many women as men go, apposing supporters go together and sit together, usually having a side bet on the outcome, a totally different atmosphere to the vulgarity that is found at all premiership grounds.

[Louzie0]

Firstly, it's not "racial" targeting. It's about identifying target markets. It's what every successful manufacturer does to sell it's products.

Secondly, a modern football business is not based on "The field of dreams." People will not just spend their hard-earned without a reason to do so. People need to be persuaded, tempted, prodded, offered something special to get them to try something new.
This is what I'm sure Villa's Marketing Department already know, although I'm not sure there's a huge amount of evidence to suggest that they are doing enough of it.

And I love AfTab's essay on following the Villa.

Maybe the answer is somewhere between the two.

[Sexual Ealing]

Are they doing much to increase Aboriginal support?

[ROBBO]

The most skillful players of the game are aboriginal. There are only about 100.000 full aboriginals left and most of them live in poverty, the culture gap and grog is the problem not the money.

[Handsworth Wood Villa]

Arsenal have the highest proportion (7.7%) of non-white attending supporters of any club in English football, according to a 2002 report.

At most clubs, supporters from the ethnic minority communities made up only 1% of the crowd.

Football violence declining say fans

[dave.woodhall]

Arsenal have the highest proportion (7.7%) of non-white attending supporters of any club in English football, according to a 2002 report.

At most clubs, supporters from the ethnic minority communities made up only 1% of the crowd.

Football violence declining say fans

Have a look at the date of that story. I'd say the situation has changed since then. 

[Sexual Ealing]

most of them live in poverty, the culture gap and grog is the problem not the money.

I'd say that the 'culture gap and the grog' have everything to do with money. And racism and stolen heritage and disenfranchisement and just the starkest example of injustice you'll see anywhere in the world.

Not that it's your fault, so forgive me if any of that sounds antagonistic.

[KRS]

One obvious point that hasnt been mentioned is the lack of Asian footballers in the Premier League...or even professional footballers at all levels. Again this could partly be a cultural issue, but the theory could easily be countered as you could easily point to the low numbers of black supporters attending football matches.

Going back to my point about "segregation", even at grass roots level you will find most Asian players prefer to play in Asian only teams and leagues. Is this segregation caused by the Asian community or is it at even grass roots levels that football is inherently racist?...I cant imagine it being much fun being on the receiving end of "kick the paki" down the park on a Sunday morning.

I may be wrong saying this but tradition, religion and family also play a different (not greater) role in Asian culture than your average white English family. Example: its tradition in a lot of families for the men to go to the football whilst the mrs stays at home, cooks and looks after the kids; where as this time would generally be spent differently in Asian culture perhaps.

If there were more Asian professional players then I think we'd see more interest from each ethnic community, but until then I doubt we'll see any changes in the near future. As I child growing up, my role models and idols were Aston Villa players so may be having high profile Asian footballers as role models in the future would bring through a change in the cultural make up of football with Asian kids wanting to be like their Asian footballing role models. May be this is one of the reasons why FIFA are targetting new markets in Asia outside of the obvious financial benefits.

[Handsworth Wood Villa]

I don't think it's anything to do with a lack of Asian footballers.

Lots of Asians like football.

I just think that they gloryhunt and don't support their local club.

It's not like Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal have any Asian players.

[tom jennings IV]

I don't think it's anything to do with a lack of Asian footballers.

Lots of Asians like football.

I just think that they gloryhunt and don't support their local club.

It's not like Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal have any Asian players.

Excellent piece of offensive generalisation. May as well close this thread now for the debate is settled.

[Handsworth Wood Villa]

I don't think it's anything to do with a lack of Asian footballers.

Lots of Asians like football.

I just think that they gloryhunt and don't support their local club.

It's not like Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal have any Asian players.

Excellent piece of offensive generalisation. May as well close this thread now for the debate is settled.

Just my opinion mate.

And I don't really see how it's offensive either...

[5ft811st2 Durham]

I don't think it's anything to do with a lack of Asian footballers.

Lots of Asians like football.

I just think that they gloryhunt and don't support their local club.

It's not like Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal have any Asian players.

Excellent piece of offensive generalisation. May as well close this thread now for the debate is settled.

Just my opinion mate.

And I don't really see how it's offensive either...

I'd say it was a statement of fact.

[Dave]

You don't see how saying that "Asians...gloryhunt and don't support their local club" is not offensive?

I'm pretty sure that an Asian Villa fan (or do they not exist?) reading that would probably think you were a bit ignorant.

For the record, both Man Utd and Arsenal both have an Asian player in their first team squad.