Gerard Houllier

[Concrete John]

Injuries and resources are one thing, but organisation and motivation are another.  Houllier may have had no control over the former, but he is totally responsible for the latter.

[mattjpa]

It's not the same team though, is it? We've lost Milner and have had huge amounts of injuries for most of the season, so they've not been using the same resources.

It gets tiring having to point out very basic little points like this to people who've decided where they stand and wont be budged.

Do you mean by 'won't be budged' as they have a different opinion?

I think thats exactly what they mean Clampy. If you look at it, there is about 85% of the clientel that did so well last season, that have been fit for most of his Houlliers tenure. The big issue is the injuries were in the centre of midfield, where we already had a big gap to fill after Milner left. I dont think the injuries have helped, but I still think the team he inherited, played correctly, should be occupying a higher league position than we currently do. We are three points off the bottom ffs.

I sort of agree that this side played correctly (i.e. MON's tactics) should be higher but that's the point really. He doesn't want to play that way and to be fair he'll just be a shite version of MON if he does. You could say he's gone too fast and it should be evolution instead of revolution but he's obviously not happy with some of the application or ablity of members of his squad and wants to change thing asap. The next month will tell if he's getting it right or he's made the biggest mistake of his career

What would people have him do? if he is afraid to implement his own idea's and follow them through to the end, then he is not fit to manage Aston Villa. If he was to carry on playing MONs way and using 14players all season then maybe we would be further up the table but when do people propose he change it around? next season? or this one, which is a write off anyway. Hopefully, he will have everything in place by the start of next season to allow normal service to resume. A few in, a few out and there will be a squad fit for the style of play he wants.
GH Out? Idiots. You sound like Liverpool fans FFS

[SteveD]

Everyone knew Ireland was potentially "difficult" before we signed him, coupled with the fact he'd hardly kicked a ball in the previous season so wouldn't be at his physical peak. Nevertheless, he would have had, you imagine, a point or two to prove. Considering we got him as a make-weight in the Milner deal, it's disappointing it's all gone spectacularly wrong so quickly and he seems to be out of the picture. There's a mark against the player himself, either attitude, fitness or whatever, but it doesn't reflect well on the management/coaching staff either in seemingly having given up on him so early. No doubt he'll be off for a cut price and another club will look to turn him around and we'll spend the money on a less troubled but ultimately poorer talent.

[glasses]

It's not the same team though, is it? We've lost Milner and have had huge amounts of injuries for most of the season, so they've not been using the same resources.

It gets tiring having to point out very basic little points like this to people who've decided where they stand and wont be budged.

Do you mean by 'won't be budged' as they have a different opinion?

I think thats exactly what they mean Clampy. If you look at it, there is about 85% of the clientel that did so well last season, that have been fit for most of his Houlliers tenure. The big issue is the injuries were in the centre of midfield, where we already had a big gap to fill after Milner left. I dont think the injuries have helped, but I still think the team he inherited, played correctly, should be occupying a higher league position than we currently do. We are three points off the bottom ffs.

I sort of agree that this side played correctly (i.e. MON's tactics) should be higher but that's the point really. He doesn't want to play that way and to be fair he'll just be a shite version of MON if he does. You could say he's gone too fast and it should be evolution instead of revolution but he's obviously not happy with some of the application or ablity of members of his squad and wants to change thing asap. The next month will tell if he's getting it right or he's made the biggest mistake of his career

What would people have him do? if he is afraid to implement his own idea's and follow them through to the end, then he is not fit to manage Aston Villa. If he was to carry on playing MONs way and using 14players all season then maybe we would be further up the table but when do people propose he change it around? next season? or this one, which is a write off anyway. Hopefully, he will have everything in place by the start of next season to allow normal service to resume. A few in, a few out and there will be a squad fit for the style of play he wants.
GH Out? Idiots. You sound like Liverpool fans FFS

I have no problem with him having his own ideas. If you are happy to say 'This season is a write off anyway' then you are the idiot. I paid good money for a season ticket this season, and most certainly didnt see it as a write off. If the club felt that way, then I want my bloody money back.
Like I said, fair enough having his own ideas, but it looks like he has tried to change too much too soon. Going back to your write off comment, would it not make sense to keep some stability in the squad, get points on the board, build/restructure in January, and then implement the new philosophy in the summer?
Or, are you happy for him to tear apart 4 years hard work in the space of four months, just because he wants to do things his way?

[Dan England]

If this was any other club we would be laughing at them for calling for the gaffers head. Take the emtional head off for a second and you can see that it would be a mad knee jerk reaction to get rid off GH.

In the close season a lot of people were saying they wouldn't mind an 8th to 10th place finish if we played some better football, that was before MON had gone. There is still no reason why we can't finish in the top half of the table, after our horrendous run of form we are still only a couple of points off.

We need to let GH bring his own playing staff in, two or three wins on the bounce things will look very different. We acheive nothing by getting rid of GH bar repeating the first half of the season.

[pauliewalnuts]

We acheive nothing by getting rid of GH bar repeating the first half of the season.

I think that's the most succinct description of the situation I've seen anyone make.

[Diablo]

I've used the analogy before but MON was like a competant average chef. At leicester he wowed them with his cod, chips, and mushy pees. Then he got a gig up north at a glasgow little chef and stunned them with his Haddock, french fries and runner beans. Then he came to us and his plaice, new boiled potatoes and petit pois was a hit. He varied it a bit and the ingrediants got a bit more expensive but it was still basically fish and chips. Now Houllier wants to come in and be a bit more adventurous but he's looked in the kitchen and all he has is two sacks of out of date potatoes, some homegrown greens and a fridge full of fish fingers

Hahaha!

[Dan England]

It's not the same team though, is it? We've lost Milner and have had huge amounts of injuries for most of the season, so they've not been using the same resources.

It gets tiring having to point out very basic little points like this to people who've decided where they stand and wont be budged.

Do you mean by 'won't be budged' as they have a different opinion?

I think thats exactly what they mean Clampy. If you look at it, there is about 85% of the clientel that did so well last season, that have been fit for most of his Houlliers tenure. The big issue is the injuries were in the centre of midfield, where we already had a big gap to fill after Milner left. I dont think the injuries have helped, but I still think the team he inherited, played correctly, should be occupying a higher league position than we currently do. We are three points off the bottom ffs.

I sort of agree that this side played correctly (i.e. MON's tactics) should be higher but that's the point really. He doesn't want to play that way and to be fair he'll just be a shite version of MON if he does. You could say he's gone too fast and it should be evolution instead of revolution but he's obviously not happy with some of the application or ablity of members of his squad and wants to change thing asap. The next month will tell if he's getting it right or he's made the biggest mistake of his career

What would people have him do? if he is afraid to implement his own idea's and follow them through to the end, then he is not fit to manage Aston Villa. If he was to carry on playing MONs way and using 14players all season then maybe we would be further up the table but when do people propose he change it around? next season? or this one, which is a write off anyway. Hopefully, he will have everything in place by the start of next season to allow normal service to resume. A few in, a few out and there will be a squad fit for the style of play he wants.
GH Out? Idiots. You sound like Liverpool fans FFS

I have no problem with him having his own ideas. If you are happy to say 'This season is a write off anyway' then you are the idiot. I paid good money for a season ticket this season, and most certainly didnt see it as a write off. If the club felt that way, then I want my bloody money back.
Like I said, fair enough having his own ideas, but it looks like he has tried to change too much too soon. Going back to your write off comment, would it not make sense to keep some stability in the squad, get points on the board, build/restructure in January, and then implement the new philosophy in the summer?
Or, are you happy for him to tear apart 4 years hard work in the space of four months, just because he wants to do things his way?

That four years hard work was never going to get us any higher than the 6th place we acheived. We will need to restructure hopefully that will lead to a team that will out perform the MON team. Do you think when Wenger or Ferguson leave the new manager won't want to change the personel and/or playing style?

[paul_e]

I think a big part of the problem here is that we didn't just lose the manager 5days before kick off, we lost the entire senior coaching team so even if houllier wanted to do a slow transition that would normally involve telling the coaches to do what they were doing and then offering small changes over time, when he arrived the coaching had already been changed.

The real mistake was in taking too long to appoint him and therefore not being able to get a couple of late buys in before the window closed.

From where we are now we have to trust houllier with some cash in january and hope that he gets 3-4players in who can serve (along with Pires) as examples of what he wants the rest of the squad to do.

[tarzansbrother]

East 19 I think his previous health issue is a factor and a big weakness. I apologise if a remark about his heart offended you but lets be honest its what everyone is thinking when you see his lonely figure on the sidelines. I am also afraid i cannot refer to any abilities the bloke has as i aint seen none since his arrival.

Yours, and some other people's appreciation of GH's medical history is the fan's equivalent of what is often called "lazy journalism" on this board. GH suffered from a dissected aorta in 2001, which is a serious and life threatening condition. Thankfully he wasn't one of the 50% of patients who don't even make it to the hospital. However, it has nothing at all to do with myocardial infarction (heart attack) as you and many others blithely presume, not that that would necessarily preclude him from managing a football club either.

To me, healthism comments are offensive and are up there with all the other 'isms and should be subject to the same ce

East 19 I think his previous health issue is a factor and a big weakness. I apologise if a remark about his heart offended you but lets be honest its what everyone is thinking when you see his lonely figure on the sidelines. I am also afraid i cannot refer to any abilities the bloke has as i aint seen none since his arrival.

Yours, and some other people's appreciation of GH's medical history is the fan's equivalent of what is often called "lazy journalism" on this board. GH suffered from a dissected aorta in 2001, which is a serious and life threatening condition. Thankfully he wasn't one of the 50% of patients who don't even make it to the hospital. However, it has nothing at all to do with myocardial infarction (heart attack) as you and many others blithely presume, not that that would necessarily preclude him from managing a football club either.

To me, healthism comments are offensive and are up there with all the other 'isms and should be subject to the same censure.

Totally disagree. He aint been the same person/manager since his illness and he said so himself. Yes he has now said he is fully recovered but i dont buy that. He should never had been hired as manager.

[glasses]

Of course, but do you think said person would try to make such massive changes to a team that, in your own post you admit yourself, was a team that was capable of a top six finish. Barring things that have been discussed above. Like I said, I have no problem with him changing things, but I think he has tried to change too much too soon, rather than stabilise, and change gradually throughout the season. It seems you have picked something out of my post to jump to a conclusion. Correct me if Im wrong.

[MarkM]

Whatever your opinion on GH or the current board,

Whether you think RL is the messiah and is beyond reproach [he has certianly done good things in his time here] it doesnt change the fact that...

There is something going seriously wrong at the Villa!

Whether it is the players or the manangers style or maybe lex luther has snuck in and planted cryptonite under the pitch; one thing however is certain [and I know that some will not like this]

Randy and the board need to sort this out, they are in charge and they need to take charge and either back or sack.

We are following the same path as in 1986/87 and thier is a massive chance that we could go down, and I we will be lucky to find another GT to save us this time around.

I seriously doubt that the kind of funds needed to put Villa back into the top six will be given in either January or the summer, I can see however that Ashley Young will be sold in order to generate a transfer fund for whatever manager is in charge, [lets face it he is the only top price star we have left] and for those who would dissagree...

Dwight Yorke
David Platt
Gareth Barry
James Milner

We are a selling club, we have been for quite a while.

Without a large investment can you really see us competing against the likes of Man Ure, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool or the next few Blackburn, Everton, Newcastle etc...

We are a top 10 ten if we are lucky, time to face the truth we had our supernovea under MoN and the light is going out.

I hope I am wrong and Lerner et al will invest heavily but I feel the money is not thier

Mark

[pauliewalnuts]

Dwight Yorke
David Platt
Gareth Barry
James Milner

We are a selling club, we have been for quite a while.

Carrick
Berbatov
Keane

All clubs are selling clubs at some point, and at some price.

[villa1]

Ronaldo.

Every player has their price. Utd sold their best player. Does that make them a selling club?

[TonyD]

What happens now is all about "managing risk".

I think keeping GH is too risky.   For so many reasons mentioned on here - he is not the man.   Yes getting a new face in is risky but I dont think we have a choice.   Do you think he will get rid of GMaC?  Do you think he will start coaching the defence again? Do you think he can get the squad fired up.   

Is he the manager you want with 5 games to go needing 10 points?  Do you think he gives a stuff?