Gerard Houllier

[MarkM]

We are not a selling club - certainly not since Randy took over.  A selling club is one that develops players and then sells them as they need the money to stay afloat, Crew being a prime example and Wigan something similar in the PL.

What we are is a club that struggles to hold onto our best players as they see riches and trophies elsewhere and want them.  We don't want to sell them, as  aselling club would, but we can't hold onto them.  Why that is is another matter entirely.

They are both the same, its just the reasons for selling that is different

Neither Barry nor Milner were out of contract so we could have held onto both.

But we didnt, why?

Because we are a selling club

Whether its is due to player power, market forces and or the possibility of loosing all value when they go on a free does not change the fact that we sold them on.

Hence we are a selling club...

[eastie]

With Barry and milner their contracts were running down and they wished to go- they could have been sold or left on a free- what choice does the club have?

The same goes for ash- if he says he will not sign a new contract he will leave , the club tried to keep them but once a player wants to leave he will leave- that's the system. Even man utd and arsenal have lost their best players - we are not a selling club!

What sense would there be in them leaving for free , if a player doesn't want to be at Aston villa then let them go- I want players totally committed to our club.

[MarkM]

With Barry and milner their contracts were running down and they wished to go- they could have been sold or left on a free- what voice does the club have?

The same goes for ash- if he says he will not sign a new contract he will leave , the club tried to keep them but once a player wants to leave he will leave- that's the system. Even man utd and arsenal have lost their best players - we are not a selling club!

We are a selling club, [as are most clubs] the problem we have is that as soon as we develop a player they want to move [to win things and play champions league as they see that Villa never will] We aslo have the problem that we can't attract or afford the big name replacements [Ireland for Milner] For gods sake just look at the piss poor managerial choice we had to pick from.

We are a selling club, we are also a second level [third at the moment] premier league team

[Clampy]

No, we're not a selling club. Milner and Barry wanted to go as soon as they heard they were wanted elsewhere. Same with Yorke, as soon as he heard Man Utd wanted him, he'd already deceided to pack, as his perfomance at Everton away showed.

I'd say the only player we've sold for the money is Platt and at the time £5.5m was a hell of a lot to turn down.

[levico]

To all you, 'it'll be alright on the night, no way are we going to get relegated' folks - please read Brian Green's post. He is absolutely spot on. Those of us who have or are about to get a bus pass have seen relegations before and on every occasion the main cause has been complacency/denial.

From what I have seen this season, on and off the pitch, not only is relegation around 75% certain but bottom place seems to have our name on it - unless something radical happens over the next 2 weeks (and that doesn't include GH spending money).

[TopDeck113]

I'd say the only player we've sold for the money is Platt and at the time £5.5m was a hell of a lot to turn down.

And on the proceeds built arguably the best Villa side of the last quarter of a century.

Houllier won't do anything comparable, even if he was given every last penny of the Milner money.

[eastie]

In the o neill era we were the 3rd highest net spenders in the league- how can we be a selling club?man u lost ronaldo- are they a selling club?

Arsenal lost henry and vierra - are they a selling club- once a player wants to leave and his contract is running low he will go- that is football!

We have spent far more under randy than recouped in sales!

[MarkM]

No, we're not a selling club. Milner and Barry wanted to go as soon as they heard they were wanted elsewhere. Same with Yorke, as soon as he heard Man Utd wanted him, he'd already deceided to pack, as his perfomance at Everton away showed.

I'd say the only player we've sold for the money is Platt and at the time £5.5m was a hell of a lot to turn down.

As I said, its just the reason for the sell thats different

We sold because we couldnt hold onto them. Why?

Because...

1. more money
2. better chance of winning things
3. both of the above

Either way we did sell, it just depends on your definition of a 'selling club'

[E I Adio]

East 19 I think his previous health issue is a factor and a big weakness. I apologise if a remark about his heart offended you but lets be honest its what everyone is thinking when you see his lonely figure on the sidelines. I am also afraid i cannot refer to any abilities the bloke has as i aint seen none since his arrival.

Yours, and some other people's appreciation of GH's medical history is the fan's equivalent of what is often called "lazy journalism" on this board. GH suffered from a dissected aorta in 2001, which is a serious and life threatening condition. Thankfully he wasn't one of the 50% of patients who don't even make it to the hospital. However, it has nothing at all to do with myocardial infarction (heart attack) as you and many others blithely presume, not that that would necessarily preclude him from managing a football club either.

To me, healthism comments are offensive and are up there with all the other 'isms and should be subject to the same censure.

Totally disagree. He aint been the same person/manager since his illness and he said so himself. Yes he has now said he is fully recovered but i dont buy that. He should never had been hired as manager.

GH's "illness" was a mechanical failure of a major artery that was repaired by surgery. I'm sure that he probably suffered from psychological damage for some time, but 10 years later, with a man of his intelligence, I would be surprised if he still did, so I'm not sure why you think differently.

[Concrete John]

No, we're not a selling club. Milner and Barry wanted to go as soon as they heard they were wanted elsewhere. Same with Yorke, as soon as he heard Man Utd wanted him, he'd already deceided to pack, as his perfomance at Everton away showed.

I'd say the only player we've sold for the money is Platt and at the time £5.5m was a hell of a lot to turn down.

As I said, its just the reason for the sell thats different

We sold because we couldnt hold onto them. Why?

Because...

1. more money
2. better chance of winning things
3. both of the above

Either way we did sell, it just depends on your definition of a 'selling club'

Well, your definition seems to be anyone who ever sells a player, so every club in the history of the game is a selling club.

[MarkM]

In the o neill era we were the 3rd highest net spenders in the league- how can we be a selling club?man u lost ronaldo- are they a selling club?

Arsenal lost henry and vierra - are they a selling club- once a player wants to leave and his contract is running low he will go- that is football!

We have spent far more under randy than recouped in sales!

Yes those players were sold, but look at the prices they got.

Even when we have a really good player and we put a price on his head, what happens? do they meet it or do we go cap in hand and almost take anything they offer [Milner / Ireland]

[WikiVilla]

In my years of following Villa I have seen us relegated many times.  Every relegation we suffered had one thing and one thing only in common.  The correction of our faults was left too late.   The incumbent manager was always given too much time and necessary action was left too late to be effective.

Those of you calling people like Glasses and me idiots because we see the writing on the wall blatantly refuse to answer the single simple straightforward question - what single piece of evidence have you seen since Gerard Houllier was appointed our manager which shows him capable of having a better second half of the season than the first?  Has he showed one spark of effectiveness in team motivation? fitness? mental attitude? building team spirit? asserting psychological domination of our opponents? getting the crowd behind the team? team discipline? team tactics? match tactics? team selection? tapping up targeted players like we have to endure from others? instilling self belief into players? instilling a spirit of fighting for every ball right to the final whistle? making match turning substitutions?   There is no evidence of any kind whatsoever that Gerard Houllier, even if he is given the money, can buy his way out of the pit he has dug for himself.

When you can produce  some evidence that Houllier has the ability NOW not at Liverpool or in France when he was in his prime - NOW, to fight off relegation then you can call those of us who do not share your optimism idiots and compare us to Liverpool fans.

Good post that

[MarkM]

No, we're not a selling club. Milner and Barry wanted to go as soon as they heard they were wanted elsewhere. Same with Yorke, as soon as he heard Man Utd wanted him, he'd already deceided to pack, as his perfomance at Everton away showed.

I'd say the only player we've sold for the money is Platt and at the time £5.5m was a hell of a lot to turn down.

As I said, its just the reason for the sell thats different

We sold because we couldnt hold onto them. Why?

Because...

1. more money
2. better chance of winning things
3. both of the above

Either way we did sell, it just depends on your definition of a 'selling club'

Well, your definition seems to be anyone who ever sells a player, so every club in the history of the game is a selling club.

No, and for this reason...

Other clubs choose when to sell and it usually benefits them.

We don't choose when to sell, we sell almost as soon as someone shows an interest and it rarely  benefit us [did Milners sale benefit us?]

[Clampy]

No, we're not a selling club. Milner and Barry wanted to go as soon as they heard they were wanted elsewhere. Same with Yorke, as soon as he heard Man Utd wanted him, he'd already deceided to pack, as his perfomance at Everton away showed.

I'd say the only player we've sold for the money is Platt and at the time £5.5m was a hell of a lot to turn down.

As I said, its just the reason for the sell thats different

We sold because we couldnt hold onto them. Why?

Because...

1. more money
2. better chance of winning things
3. both of the above

Either way we did sell, it just depends on your definition of a 'selling club'

Man Utd lost both Ronaldo and Tevez for one or both of the reasons you stated.

A selling club to me is one who takes money for a player as soon as they're worth something.

[tarzansbrother]

For me its not about selling but who we recruit. Houllier has shown nothing to suggest that he can make our current players play together. So we go forward into the new year with an £800k unknown youth french player as our saviour. That in my book is one massive risk.