Gerard Houllier

[Lee]

Nicked

I've used the analogy before but MON was like a competant average chef. At leicester he wowed them with his cod, chips, and mushy pees. Then he got a gig up north at a glasgow little chef and stunned them with his Haddock, french fries and runner beans. Then he came to us and his plaice, new boiled potatoes and petit pois was a hit. He varied it a bit and the ingrediants got a bit more expensive but it was still basically fish and chips. Now Houllier wants to come in and be a bit more adventurous but he's looked in the kitchen and all he has is two sacks of out of date potatoes, some homegrown greens and a fridge full of fish fingers

Nicked

eh?

I think that Mac wants to use that elsewhere. Great analogy btw.

[MarkM]

East 19 I think his previous health issue is a factor and a big weakness. I apologise if a remark about his heart offended you but lets be honest its what everyone is thinking when you see his lonely figure on the sidelines. I am also afraid i cannot refer to any abilities the bloke has as i aint seen none since his arrival.

To me, healthism comments are offensive and are up there with all the other 'isms and should be subject to the same censure.

Since when did this forum censure people for spouting thier opinions? have you read through some of the off topic threads?

[E I Adio]

East 19 I think his previous health issue is a factor and a big weakness. I apologise if a remark about his heart offended you but lets be honest its what everyone is thinking when you see his lonely figure on the sidelines. I am also afraid i cannot refer to any abilities the bloke has as i aint seen none since his arrival.

To me, healthism comments are offensive and are up there with all the other 'isms and should be subject to the same censure.

Since when did this forum censure people for spouting thier opinions? have you read through some of the off topic threads?

To answer your question, I imagine that depends on the opinions. However, I was not just referring to this forum.

[cdward]

This point about injuries is running thin as well. We had Petrov and NRC fit and available, but Houllier decides to play Delph and Hogg.
He shipped Davies out to Leicester, so he can't complain about injuries there.
He didn't play Cuellar when it was obvious Dunne was hopelessly out of shape and lacking form and confidence.
He couldn't get Ireland or Carew to perform, but chose to publicly criticise them instead, so not injuries there.
Does anybody know if Ashley Young is really injured, or is he being saved for selling?
I agree we had a patch when the squad was thin, but that is not the case now, people keep going on about injuries like it is some new phenomenon that has only happened to Villa, it happens to all teams.
 The truth is we have the strongest squad of players ever seen at VP, but a manager who will not or cannot manage them efficiently enough.

[glasses]

It's not the same team though, is it? We've lost Milner and have had huge amounts of injuries for most of the season, so they've not been using the same resources.

It gets tiring having to point out very basic little points like this to people who've decided where they stand and wont be budged.

Do you mean by 'won't be budged' as they have a different opinion?

I think thats exactly what they mean Clampy. If you look at it, there is about 85% of the clientel that did so well last season, that have been fit for most of his Houlliers tenure. The big issue is the injuries were in the centre of midfield, where we already had a big gap to fill after Milner left. I dont think the injuries have helped, but I still think the team he inherited, played correctly, should be occupying a higher league position than we currently do. We are three points off the bottom ffs.

[Monty]

This point about injuries is running thin as well. We had Petrov and NRC fit and available, but Houllier decides to play Delph and Hogg.

Fully fit? I'm not so sure.

He shipped Davies out to Leicester, so he can't complain about injuries there.

Centre-back is the one area where we haven't really suffered from injuries.

He didn't play Cuellar when it was obvious Dunne was hopelessly out of shape and lacking form and confidence.

He has, actually.

He couldn't get Ireland or Carew to perform, but chose to publicly criticise them instead, so not injuries there.

Yeah, because their attitudes have been beyond reproach. Plus Carew has been injured, as has Ireland on occasion.

Does anybody know if Ashley Young is really injured, or is he being saved for selling?

Now come on, you cannot be serious.

I agree we had a patch when the squad was thin, but that is not the case now, people keep going on about injuries like it is some new phenomenon that has only happened to Villa, it happens to all teams.

Not many teams have an entire first XI out, and our lack of reserves beneath that first XI was utterly exposed.

The truth is we have the strongest squad of players ever seen at VP, but a manager who will not or cannot manage them efficiently enough.

"Strongest squad of players ever seen at VP"? Are you joking? And it comes back to the point, I'm afraid - how can you judge a manager's management of players who are injured like this?

[pauliewalnuts]

It's not the same team though, is it? We've lost Milner and have had huge amounts of injuries for most of the season, so they've not been using the same resources.

It gets tiring having to point out very basic little points like this to people who've decided where they stand and wont be budged.

Do you mean by 'won't be budged' as they have a different opinion?

No, I mean people who say that he's had the same resources as last season when

1. We've had an injury list so large, it is visible from space

2. We sold our best player (as the same people pointed out at the time)

In the case of the injury list, there's nothing opinionated about it - it is a fact.

[Greg N'Ash]

It's not the same team though, is it? We've lost Milner and have had huge amounts of injuries for most of the season, so they've not been using the same resources.

It gets tiring having to point out very basic little points like this to people who've decided where they stand and wont be budged.

Do you mean by 'won't be budged' as they have a different opinion?

I think thats exactly what they mean Clampy. If you look at it, there is about 85% of the clientel that did so well last season, that have been fit for most of his Houlliers tenure. The big issue is the injuries were in the centre of midfield, where we already had a big gap to fill after Milner left. I dont think the injuries have helped, but I still think the team he inherited, played correctly, should be occupying a higher league position than we currently do. We are three points off the bottom ffs.

I sort of agree that this side played correctly (i.e. MON's tactics) should be higher but that's the point really. He doesn't want to play that way and to be fair he'll just be a shite version of MON if he does. You could say he's gone too fast and it should be evolution instead of revolution but he's obviously not happy with some of the application or ablity of members of his squad and wants to change thing asap. The next month will tell if he's getting it right or he's made the biggest mistake of his career

[Lee]

It's not the same team though, is it? We've lost Milner and have had huge amounts of injuries for most of the season, so they've not been using the same resources.

It gets tiring having to point out very basic little points like this to people who've decided where they stand and wont be budged.

Do you mean by 'won't be budged' as they have a different opinion?

No, I mean people who say that he's had the same resources as last season when

1. We've had an injury list so large, it is visible from space

2. We sold our best player (as the same people pointed out at the time)

In the case of the injury list, there's nothing opinionated about it - it is a fact.

.. along with the situation that we were left high and dry at the onset of the season. To an extent, I think that Lerner has to take some of the blame, but that was perhaps his naivety in trusting MON far too much. We had issues in May that could have been addressed, either with a sacking, or with a mutually agreed "prime directive" between MON and Lerner.

Instead, they started playing little "high noon" games, with MON in the end shooting himself at an inappropriate time.

I still have faith in the Board and they have learnt a helluva lot of this past 6 months about Football and indeed Aston Villa.

[cdward]

It's not the same team though, is it? We've lost Milner and have had huge amounts of injuries for most of the season, so they've not been using the same resources.

It gets tiring having to point out very basic little points like this to people who've decided where they stand and wont be budged.

Do you mean by 'won't be budged' as they have a different opinion?

No, I mean people who say that he's had the same resources as last season when

1. We've had an injury list so large, it is visible from space

2. We sold our best player (as the same people pointed out at the time)

In the case of the injury list, there's nothing opinionated about it - it is a fact.

It's the same squad, the same resources, but with injuries. Every PL team has to deal with injuries. The point is when these injured players have been available, he still didn't utilise them properly, NRC, Petrov, Cuellar, Ireland, Carew.

[eastie]

DO people really believe things would be that much better this season with mon? He has his bust ups with plenty of players and with the loss of milner and the injuries suffered I don't think we would have been much different from where we are now.

Lerner has to back the manager fully financially in January if he believes he's the right man- get 4 or 5 of houlliers kind of players in and get rid of some of the troublemakers and we might move onwards and upwards- the manager if backed should be given at least £20m to spend- much of it still unspent from last summer.

[pauliewalnuts]

It's the same squad, the same resources, but with injuries. Every PL team has to deal with injuries. The point is when these injured players have been available, he still didn't utilise them properly, NRC, Petrov, Cuellar, Ireland, Carew.

So, it's the same squad, the same resources, except half of them weren't available.

Oh, and the best player wasn't there any more. And the one we brought in as part of the deal turned out to be as big a mentalist as we thought.

You might not think he didn't use the players properly, that's a whole different argument, and I'd agree with you on some of them. In fact, I'm not a fan of Houllier.

I like what he wants to do, and in several games we have played some very good football. However, I don't like his constant slip ups and gaffes, i don't like some of his selection decisions, I particularly don't like the lack of direction we seem to be showing on the pitch, and I am very, very worried by our form, but I can see we've had a horrific injury list, and it is that which makes saying he has the same resources as last year patently not true.

For all that I don't like him, though, and for all that I'm worried the way things are going - very worried - I think there is a certain amount of "throw some extra shit at him while he's down" going on.

I also have not heard a single convincing argument to the question "sack him now, and then what do we do?" yet. I know it is all about opinions, and I understand why people might want him sacked to show him what we think, but I genuinely am at a loss as to how anyone thinks that, having had the season of disruption we have had so far, sacking our manager the day before the transfer window, which we've almost certainly been preparing for for months opens is going to improve anything.

Clubs which go through four or five managers in a year usually end up in one place.

[Greg N'Ash]

It's not the same team though, is it? We've lost Milner and have had huge amounts of injuries for most of the season, so they've not been using the same resources.

It gets tiring having to point out very basic little points like this to people who've decided where they stand and wont be budged.

Do you mean by 'won't be budged' as they have a different opinion?

No, I mean people who say that he's had the same resources as last season when

1. We've had an injury list so large, it is visible from space

2. We sold our best player (as the same people pointed out at the time)

In the case of the injury list, there's nothing opinionated about it - it is a fact.

It's the same squad, the same resources, but with injuries. Every PL team has to deal with injuries. The point is when these injured players have been available, he still didn't utilise them properly, NRC, Petrov, Cuellar, Ireland, Carew.

I don't know how he was supposed to utilise Ireland properly. The guy blatently doesn't want to be here or on the pitch. I suppose he could carry on playing him till eventually finds some form or police advise Houllier to drop him for his own safety, but there was plenty of complaints on here during MON's time of him continually playing people out of form

[Clampy]

I was down at Fulham earlier in the season when Ireland came off the bench with 10 mins to go and starting spraying passes round the pitch and set up a few attacks. Unfortunatley, our strikers could'nt finish the game off and we all know what happened in the last minute.

I don't think he's been given as much of a crack as he should have. It's a pity he want's away apparantley because i'd have perservered with him.

[glasses]

I keep flitting between wanting him sacked, and giving him time to build a team he is happy with. But, I just dont like him. I didnt want him here. In my opinion I feel he thinks he is doing us a favour by being here, just like that smug shit O'Leary. I dont like his tactics, I dont think Liverpool played good football when he was manager there, and bar Hyppia and Henchoz, his transfers were a million miles worse than MONs.