Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: PeterWithesShin on August 31, 2019, 04:54:52 PM
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Booo. For the ref and us today
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That was very poor. The tactical by DS approach was wrong. Our players were naive and our performance was littered with stupid careless errors. I believe we are much better than this but we certainly didn’t show it at all today.
We are going to be exposed at LB as long as we are relying on Neil Fucking Taylor at PL level. The ref was poor but this wasn’t on him. We have to get better and quickly otherwise we will sucked into that bottom tier all season. And it’s like quicksand.
Really disappointing
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Merge with mine please Mr Shin
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Friend is an incompetent cheating biased bastard
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Kevin friend the 12th man. An absolute cock
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Firstly get on the phone to FA and make sure this Friend idiot dosen't ref us again this season otherwise we will get relegated. He's the new Mark Halsey.
Usual performance at Selhurst, our record there is even worse than at Old Trafford I think.
Frustrating loss, no more than that imo. Might be in the minority judging by the match thread but we will be o.k.
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Can any kind hearted soul at the ground slash Kevin Fiend's tyres on the way out, please.
He loves Palace that much he can fucking well stay there.
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Kevin Friend , total dick!
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Grealish didn't appeal for a foul, so how was it a dive?
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We weren't great, but we defended well and had play against 12 men with that fucking arsehole reffing.
The cheating bastard.
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We played pretty poorly but that was a shocking decision by Friend.
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If VAR can reward it should also be used to rescind.
Kevin Friend had an appalling first half. Inconsistent, unfair and not self-aware. Star of the show today and shouldn’t be allowed to impact the result as he did.
Crystal Palace had more fouls the entire game with the most violent of all, Ayew’s stamp on Taylor, going unpunished. And the most blatant, SJM shirt pulled at 25yds out, going uncautioned.
Nothing will be done.
Onto to the next, welcome to the league we all love. ::)
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The ref gave us fuck all, and nor did our players.
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Grealish didn't appeal for a foul, so how was it a dive?
Exactly.
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A terrible way to try and play football by us. Potato tactics from Dean.
Though that 'goal' at the end... raging. Time for bed.
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Corruption.
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You can make all the excuses you want about Spurs and Bournemouth and this, but in all honesty we have a habit of losing and we look like relegation right now.
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We were pretty pants and on the balance of play Palace deserved to win. But the delight Kevin Friend takes in booking/sending off our players and the clear bias he showed throughout the game is just outrageous. I bet he came in his dry stock when he disallowed that goal. Did it go to VAR?
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Ref was poor but Deano needs to have a serious word with them all about not going to ground so easily. We need to be stronger on the ball.
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I though VAR was supposed to correct decisions like the disallowed goal. If it doesn't what is the point of having it? But then it is administered by the same idiots who think Kevin Friend is elite referee.
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That was very poor. The tactical by DS approach was wrong. Our players were naive and our performance was littered with stupid careless errors. I believe we are much better than this but we certainly didn’t show it at all today.
We are going to be exposed at LB as long as we are relying on Neil Fucking Taylor at PL level. The ref was poor but this wasn’t on him. We have to get better and quickly otherwise we will sucked into that bottom tier all season. And it’s like quicksand.
Really disappointing
It really was on him...he has cost us a point.
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I’ve been to watch the villa live for 30 years and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a refereeing performance as inept as that
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Ludicrous refereeing but we were pisspoor too.
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I’ve watched that incident again a few times. Jack gets caught by Zaha and then as he’s falling by Cahill. At worst it’s a free kick on the edge of the box. So if there was a good ref today he plays the advantage and Lansbury scores. Not that we deserved it but the game should have ended 1-1.
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Grealish didn't appeal for a foul, so how was it a dive?
He was quick up on his feet immediately after. Friend is an absolute tosser. Way out of his depth.
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On the goal, two defenders and neither sends him towards the corner.
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I hope Friend's next shit is a hedgehog...that was one of the most inept performances I have ever seen especially considering these should be the best refs in England.
We were not at our best but a draw would have been right.
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From the Guardian live feed:
" 16:57
Villa have had a 96th-minute goal disallowed!
Grealish is tripped on the edge of the area, the play goes on and Villa score but Kevin Friend blows his whistle! He says that Grealish dived (he clearly did not), and blows for a Palace free-kick! Villa will go mad! And they have every right to go mad! (Very Barry Davies voice)."
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You can make all the excuses you want about Spurs and Bournemouth and this, but in all honesty we have a habit of losing and we look like relegation right now.
That's the way I see it. We've offered very little when it matters in the 3 games we've lost. Bournemouth we're 2 up. They didn't give a shit about is dominating possession. Why would they.
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Corruption.
Oh for fuck's sake. He's shit, we all know he's shit, he's always been shit, but that's all he is.
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I think VAR can't be brought in because the free kick wasn't given for the goal. So if he thinks someone punches the ball in or scores a goal while pulling someone's shirt, he can send it to VAR. If it's off the ball, he can't.
Friend found the only way he could to deny us a goal.
If he'd refereed like that against Manchester United, he'd be relegated to the Championship. As it's Villa, nothing will happen. He'll probably be given the West Ham game.
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This is the 'dive' https://twitter.com/mattlyynch/status/1167829354514132992
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Not great , for me physically couldn#t compete and gave away stupid fouls and ended up with a red
But my god that disallowed goal is an utter disgrace ..VAR what the point of it when something like that happens
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I really prefer the championship. The premier league just seems to be a circus. We were shit but the referee needs investigating for blatant bias. And what is the point of VAR if it doesn’t review decisions such as the disallowed goal? Pointless.
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The ref was shit. Seemed like a booking for every foul by us first half. As for our goal, fucking joke.
Many thanks to Villa in Denmark for the pm.
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Anyone know why our fans were singing"fuck the EFL"?
Also that Kinda song is grim in every aspect.
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Includes another angle https://twitter.com/it_is_elliott/status/1167828693827424257
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Surely the thread title should be Kevin Friend's Crystal Palace v Aston Villa Post Match Thread?
We didn't play well but we were stitched up by that ******. They committed the worse fouls, but didn't get booked until it was too late to effect anything. We'd got fullbacks dancing on eggshells from 10-15 minutes or earlier for nothing challenges.
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This is the 'dive' https://twitter.com/mattlyynch/status/1167829354514132992
The reverse angle is even more damning. Friend had no desire to go to VAR. Cheating fuck.
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We didn't play well, but certainly didn't think we played that badly either. It was a tight, physical game first half, which we were punished for far more than them.
Yes we didn't create enough, but we competed well, defended really well, and kept positive even with 10 men. But we were cheated out of a draw by the worst refereeing I've seen for many years.
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You can make all the excuses you want about Spurs and Bournemouth and this, but in all honesty we have a habit of losing and we look like relegation right now.
We do - our reliance on one suitable striker is starting to look stupidly naive and puts immense pressure on the team not to concede, which seems to be affecting them badly.
I agree it looks like its going to be a tough year in the league, with nobody cut adrift at the bottom. Even Newcastle haven’t been that bad. We’re looking like the most likely to go down at the moment.
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Includes another angle https://twitter.com/it_is_elliott/status/1167828693827424257
At 30 seconds just look where Friend is. He simply could not have had a better view of BOTH fouls.
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We were shite and Mings had his worst game in a Villa shirt, but that ref is the most appalling I've seen in 30 years.
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I hate this Premier league
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We played pretty poorly but that was a shocking decision by Friend.
Decision? Make that decisions. We weren't great obviously but he was fucking awful. When Chris Kamara says "he seemed to really enjoy gicvng that red card" it tells you something.There was something not right with that ref today. Just hope that anti villla twat Danny Murphy doesn't get to analyse it on MOTD as i'll probably boil over.
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Appalling refereeing, if we have to suffer VAR why can’t these decisions not be looked at again?
That said we were second best and showed ambition only in very small passages of play. We again looked poorly matched physically and their movement off the ball was far superior to ours.
Plenty to do.
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This is the 'dive' https://twitter.com/mattlyynch/status/1167829354514132992
Jack is running at full speed, gets nudge from Kouyate or whoever and starts losing his balance. Still manages to play perfectly waited pass to Lansbury before he falls and Cahill seemingly wipes him out anyway.
Surely if he's playing the pass he's not in the mindset of looking for the penalty and diving?
Ridiculous to rule that out. It was a really good finish from Lansbury aswell so frustrating for him as that could've got his Villa career finally going.
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There's undoubtedly contact, so it's a nailed on pen. It has to be said Jack made the most of the contact.
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You can make all the excuses you want about Spurs and Bournemouth and this, but in all honesty we have a habit of losing and we look like relegation right now.
Whilst I thought we improved when Davis came on, play like that again with what appeared to be no bloody plan and you're sadly right. Neither Trez or Jota looked up to the mark and El Ghazi, unless coming off the bench against tired defenders, is not the answer. A rethink is needed.
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And Trezeguet needs a few words, really stupid second challenge.
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Corruption.
Oh for fuck's sake. He's shit, we all know he's shit, he's always been shit, but that's all he is.
If we go down by a point/goal difference, he'll have had a deciding say.
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What is the point of football if games can be destroyed by officials like Kevin Friend and the worse thing is knowing that nothing will be said or done to him. They are answerable to no one. VAR appears to be just an opportunity to get decisions wrong twice. He will go away thinking he's had a good game without a care in the world. If there was any justice, someone would deck him in the fucking car park.
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Robbed, cheated, scammed, to many negatives to throw at this, absolute scandal, first half was okay, we know this is going to be hard, Villa are learning their trade and life back in the Premiership, to believe we are somehow going to out think and out play other Premiership side on mass is just delusional, the object of this season is to survive and that means some games will be just plain ugly lacking in skill and style, grinding out a result, deciding factor in the game, to many yellow cards in the first half making a sending of almost certain to happen, then the sending of. deserved but was it wholly deserved, Mings poor defending and decision making in the box needs to be looked at, finally, the disallowed goal, no words for that, we should have a point and on that basis this would overall been a decent result. awful game not just of our making or the dreadful Palace.
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Corruption.
Oh for fuck's sake. He's shit, we all know he's shit, he's always been shit, but that's all he is.
I disagree. He booked out players every chance he got, one of theirs needed 6 fouls before he bothered booking him, and that goal? We were cheated.
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That’s a Maradona handball level of poor refereeing. Absolutely atrocious decision.
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And Trezeguet needs a few words, really stupid second challenge.
As I said in the match thread He shouldn’t have still been on the pitch
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Can’t be a dive, he’s already passed it! Ridiculous. It was a great run by Grealish.
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Anyone know why our fans were singing"fuck the EFL"?
Also that Kinda song is grim in every aspect.
In support of Bury.
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We are now 18th having just played some of the worst "Premier League" football I've seen in a while. I honestly think we are in big trouble.
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So if he thinks it's not a freekick/penalty, ok don't give it. In which case Lansbury scores anyway. How he gives them a freekick for a supposed dive, I don't know.
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Should the goal have stood?
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Why can’t VAR just allow the goal now, 1-1. Everyone’s fairly treated?
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We're not stopping up at this rate.
Far too naive. You cant lose away at the likes of Palace with their awful home form or at home to the likes of Bournemouth and stay up.
Midfield far too deep against a side with XI behind the ball. Trezuguet an absolute moron. He's given the referee no option with both.
Friend had no consistency. How Zaha wasnt booked for anyone of his fouls I dont know.
Absolutely everything they created came from us giving the ball up so cheaply.
I dont want to see Trezuguet anywhere near this squad for a month or two, the absolute fool.
Kicked off at the end. I was directly inline with Jack and I didnt see him dive. He was muscled over, doesnt appeal and the referee blows up. No VAR check announced.
Very poor today. Poor start to the season. Sadly my fears are being realised. We're not up to it in this league.
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Should the goal have stood?
Yes 100%.
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We'll learn from this. I hope the sentence "We'll learn from this." is not going to become a familiar feature of post-match discussions.
This is exam time.
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And Trezeguet needs a few words, really stupid second challenge.
If you were Dean Smith and the way that knobhead of a referee was shaping up first half, you'd say don't give him any excuse at the interval.
Gormless play - or a winger's challenge - if you want to be generous.
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Is that Hourihane with the outstretched arms looking for the penalty straight-away? I wonder if Friend thought he was being ''conned'' by a hopeful penalty appeal, and then he's made a split-second decision to chalk the goal off as it goes in. Fucking dismal officiating though.
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Should the goal have stood?
Yes 100%.
So why didn’t VAR give it?
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Should the goal have stood?
Yes 100%.
Absolutely 100%
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It's gonna be a very long season .....dropping points to Bournemouth now Palace isn't what I was expecting
I know they are "established premier league clubs" but if we want to stay up we Need points against such sides.
Poor refereeing aside we need to be creating more chances against teams like Palace.
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Fuck me, just see a replay. What the fuck is the referee doing the ******?!
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This League is unforgiving but the Ref today? A joke! We simply need to grind out more results. But down to 10 men we certain7ly made it hard for ourselves.
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I'm really disappointed with how we've set up each league game so far, I wasn't expecting out and out gung ho insanity but I was expecting us to look like we wanted to do more than try and nick games 1-0.
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Should the goal have stood?
Yes 100%.
So why didn’t VAR give it?
I imagine the cock ref had something to do with that. Either he calls for a VAR review or he gets prompted for it and he doesn’t go to it. VAR is there to assist the ref in making decisions.
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We are now 18th having just played some of the worst "Premier League" football I've seen in a while. I honestly think we are in big trouble.
And out they crawl.
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Final Score unanimous that it was a goal and asking where the VAR was to correct the wrong decision.
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We are now 18th having just played some of the worst "Premier League" football I've seen in a while. I honestly think we are in big trouble.
And out they crawl.
Who?
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Smith needs to look at himself today as well. This formation and style of play isn’t working.
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When Ads is disillusioned we're in trouble.
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I'm really disappointed with how we've set up each league game so far, I wasn't expecting out and out gung ho insanity but I was expecting us to look like we wanted to do more than try and nick games 1-0.
That’s exactly what has fucked me off the most. I’ve watched a bit of Sheff Utd and Norwich and they have both been way more adventurous than us, especially the latter. Really disappointed so far.
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We are now 18th having just played some of the worst "Premier League" football I've seen in a while. I honestly think we are in big trouble.
And out they crawl.
Innit Dave.
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We were poor, but definitely should have come away with a point. The cretinous Kevin fucking Friend & those disgraceful VAR morons should be booted out of the game.
Absolutely fuming.
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Corruption.
Oh for fuck's sake. He's shit, we all know he's shit, he's always been shit, but that's all he is.
Fair enough, this must be our fault somehow
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We'll know we're in real trouble when Stuart445 slithers back.
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Deano slaughtered the ref in the post match interview. Garth Crooks saying it's a shocking decision. They're saying "it had to be seen to be believed. Just putting this out there for anyone thinking wer'e going ott about that cnut Kevin Friend.
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We are going to be exposed at LB as long as we are relying on Neil Fucking Taylor at PL level.
On that performance, Neil Fucking Taylor is, with the exception of Heaton, the least of our problems. Get a grip.
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Final Score unanimous that it was a goal and asking where the VAR was to correct the wrong decision.
Gary Lineker also tweeted it was a terrible decision so we will be getting some coverage on MOTD tonight if just for that decision.
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We are now 18th having just played some of the worst "Premier League" football I've seen in a while. I honestly think we are in big trouble.
And out they crawl.
Who?
The posters who mysteriously vanish when we do well only to reappear at the first sign of something to moan about.
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We are going to be exposed at LB as long as we are relying on Neil Fucking Taylor at PL level.
On that performance, Neil Fucking Taylor is, with the exception of Heaton, the least of our problems. Get a grip.
A-fucking-men.
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Fuck me, just see a replay. What the fuck is the referee doing the c***?!
August 13 jovanovic smashes elbow in benteke's face no red and then scores Chelsea goal and.then final minute Terry handball no penalty given.The referee KEVIN FRIEND say no more
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Final Score unanimous that it was a goal and asking where the VAR was to correct the wrong decision.
Gary Lineker also tweeted it was a terrible decision so we will be getting some coverage on MOTD tonight if just for that decision.
Beat me to it!
If Jack was wrongly booked, can that be scrubbed?
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Corruption.
Oh for fuck's sake. He's shit, we all know he's shit, he's always been shit, but that's all he is.
Fair enough, this must be our fault somehow
It's our fault we were very poor yes. There's nothing we can do about him. Out of interest, who do you think is paying him off to make these incorrect decisions?
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What the actual fuck. Why have I watched it back. Four and a half fucking hours now and all I'll have in my head is that ****** of a decision.
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Final Score unanimous that it was a goal and asking where the VAR was to correct the wrong decision.
Gary Lineker also tweeted it was a terrible decision so we will be getting some coverage on MOTD tonight if just for that decision.
I remain rather puzzled about the point of VAR. This is a nailed-on example of when a ref could accept that there is a reason for the goal to stand.
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I'm far more fucked off at VAR over the disallowed goal, Friend was incompetent all game so no surprise he got that wrong as well, VAR is meant to be there to fix things when a ref is shit/has a bad game/makes a genuine mistake.
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It is generally accepted that to integrate more than three signings into a settled team is a tall order. We were forced into the mass signings by circumstance but with that many new faces and a manager inexperienced at this level we have a mountain to climb.
The club did a fantastic marketing job this summer with the signings and season ticket sales the key will be keeping all those new found ticket holders on side during what will be a very difficult season.
I just hope they stay onside and don't take out their disappointed expectations on the team. I fear it will be a long season.
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Indeed, if it can’t fix the most blatant mistake I’ve ever seen, then it really isn’t worth the delays etc. Fuck it off.
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Anybody know if this ref has any gambling habits or outstanding debts he can no longer service.
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Final Score unanimous that it was a goal and asking where the VAR was to correct the wrong decision.
Gary Lineker also tweeted it was a terrible decision so we will be getting some coverage on MOTD tonight if just for that decision.
Beat me to it!
If Jack was wrongly booked, can that be scrubbed?
Under the FAs ridiculous rules, a yellow card cannot be challenged.
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Danny Murphy will just love this!
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Did the ref blow his whistle for the free kick against Grealish before the goal was scored? If so, presumably VAR couldn't overturn it. If not, then failing to go to VAR appears ridiculous.
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Although we were generally poor today we surely have to register a protest somewhere about that ref. He was quite shockingly biased, and if he wanted to book Grealish for diving there was still no need to call back the goal. Shocking refereeing that really makes me wonder about corruption in the game.
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After telling everybody all summer that we’re not doing a Fulham, it seems we might be after all.
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Did the ref blow the whistle before Lansbury scored?
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3 points away from 6th- some people need to get a reality check. This is a side that is still coming together but a team that is unified and will improve.
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From Bristol, but based in Leicester.
Based on Brizzle's odd infatuation with us it could be down to that.
Or he could be part of the old guard of Leicester City fan still peeved at Brian Little's walk out (that is actually still a thing, believe it or not).
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Not in a great place. Referee sounded fucking dreadful
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I'm far more fucked off at VAR over the disallowed goal, Friend was incompetent all game so no surprise he got that wrong as well, VAR is meant to be there to fix things when a ref is shit/has a bad game/makes a genuine mistake.
It isn't VAR's fault that the referee refused to use it. Today is an argument for VAR, not against. If there is no VAR in the game, the goal still wouldn't have stood. If the decision to go to VAR was left to managers, like in the NFL, or even left to captains, like in cricket, we would have drawn..
Take the power away from cheating referees.
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Corruption.
Oh for fuck's sake. He's shit, we all know he's shit, he's always been shit, but that's all he is.
Fair enough, this must be our fault somehow
It's our fault we were very poor yes. There's nothing we can do about him. Out of interest, who do you think is paying him off to make these incorrect decisions?
No I agree with you, it’s all our fault. We should have not ever tried to tackle the Palace players, or score a goal
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He's gotten rid of the ball before he goes down so how the fuck is it a dive? He doesn't claim anything so what is he looking for? He's set up a goal, hasn't asked for any action to be taken, in what way is this an infringement or simulation?
We've all seen refereeing decisions over the years that we didn't agree with which cost us points, but this is the most serious and blatant example in memory of officials cheating a team. The decision is not congruous with the rules of the game.
Now watch the FA do nothing about it.
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2 challenges is daft imo, there'll be games with a bunch of decisions that should be reviewed, VAR should kick in automatically, not wait for a player/manager/ref to ask it too.
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I'm far more fucked off at VAR over the disallowed goal, Friend was incompetent all game so no surprise he got that wrong as well, VAR is meant to be there to fix things when a ref is shit/has a bad game/makes a genuine mistake.
It isn't VAR's fault that the referee refused to use it. Today is an argument for VAR, not against. If there is no VAR in the game, the goal still wouldn't have stood. If the decision to go to VAR was left to managers, like in the NFL, or even left to captains, like in cricket, we would have drawn..
Take the power away from cheating referees.
VAR's supposed to be there to overturn wrong decisions.
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It is generally accepted that to integrate more than three signings into a settled team is a tall order. We were forced into the mass signings by circumstance but with that many new faces and a manager inexperienced at this level we have a mountain to climb.
The club did a fantastic marketing job this summer with the signings and season ticket sales the key will be keeping all those new found ticket holders on side during what will be a very difficult season.
I just hope they stay onside and don't take out their disappointed expectations on the team. I fear it will be a long season.
We'd be 12th if Kevin Friend had eyes, get a grip
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3 points away from 6th- some people need to get a reality check. This is a side that is still coming together but a team that is unified and will improve.
Exactly, I get that we where poor today but so was Palace, i would also agree that Palace probably slightly less poor than our poor, we are learning our trade but most of all we earned the point and the ref decided from the outset that he was going to influence the direction of the game and in the disallowed goal the most obvious terrible way.
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If he blew before the goal he had been o disallow it but as Grealish didn’t appeal how can it be a dive? You are allowed to fall over?
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I don't think Friend cheated, I think he was 'just' embarrassingly incompetent.
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Corruption.
Oh for fuck's sake. He's shit, we all know he's shit, he's always been shit, but that's all he is.
Fair enough, this must be our fault somehow
It's our fault we were very poor yes. There's nothing we can do about him. Out of interest, who do you think is paying him off to make these incorrect decisions?
No I agree with you, it’s all our fault. We should have not ever tried to tackle the Palace players, or score a goal
What are you on about? And you haven't answered my question.
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After telling everybody all summer that we’re not doing a Fulham, it seems we might be after all.
Key will be to win the home games. Plus grinding out a few away points.
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Did the ref blow his whistle for the free kick against Grealish before the goal was scored? If so, presumably VAR couldn't overturn it. If not, then failing to go to VAR appears ridiculous.
VAR have confirmed they didn't disagree with Friend's pathetic decision, namely - that JG had apparently 'dived'.
What a shower of utter wankers.
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We are going to be exposed at LB as long as we are relying on Neil Fucking Taylor at PL level.
On that performance, Neil Fucking Taylor is, with the exception of Heaton, the least of our problems. Get a grip.
Get a fucking grip? He’s shit. He’s not the biggest problem but he’s certainly one of them. Maybe you should watch the game again to see how often they crossed from that side. They knew he was a liability.
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SSN, Football Focus...all saying the same, stooopid Kev!
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I'm far more fucked off at VAR over the disallowed goal, Friend was incompetent all game so no surprise he got that wrong as well, VAR is meant to be there to fix things when a ref is shit/has a bad game/makes a genuine mistake.
It isn't VAR's fault that the referee refused to use it. Today is an argument for VAR, not against. If there is no VAR in the game, the goal still wouldn't have stood. If the decision to go to VAR was left to managers, like in the NFL, or even left to captains, like in cricket, we would have drawn..
Take the power away from cheating referees.
This.
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Not too concerned by the fact thatwe have slipped into the bottom three when a point would have seen us 11th - but I do fret over Mings' fitness and the fact that we should have invested more in attacking talent in the summer. I'm sure Konza is an excellent prospect but that money could have been better spent imo, on a striker.
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After telling everybody all summer that we’re not doing a Fulham, it seems we might be after all.
Sadly appears to be the case. Teo very poor defeats at home and away to sides with diabolical home and away form. We're riddled with naivety in our play.
Although my pessimism is overwhelmed by my fury at that. We should have a point. As bad as we were, Palace were just as dire. We scored a legitimate goal and we've been utterly robbed by a referee who was woeful all game and by a clearly utterly pointless VAR system.
If it's not there to stop the howlers, there's no fucking point.
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Deano needs to look at the style of play, we’re surrendering too much of the game at the moment.
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I don't think Friend cheated, I think he was 'just' embarrassingly incompetent.
Well okay, then there is no way he should hold licence to referee in probably the hardest league in the world, furthermore, still doesn't explain how VAR have supported him in this terrible decision.
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A few of our new players need to man up & wise up a lot & quickly. Douglas is not ready for the pace of this league yet.
We weren't great but the ref was awful even before that outrageous decsion.
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If Jack passed before hitting the deck after the challenge, doesn’t advantage get played? Especially if the guy he passes to (Lansbury) then goes on to score?
With or without VAR, it’s a strange decision to stand.
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Re. Taylor...
To be fair, he's a fairly average left back who struggled against Zaha. I'd agree we have more pressing concerns than Taylor at the moment - not sure he deserves all the criticism coming his way (though I'm looking forward to Targett coming in). I'm much more worried about Jota, Trez, Anwar...
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It is generally accepted that to integrate more than three signings into a settled team is a tall order. We were forced into the mass signings by circumstance but with that many new faces and a manager inexperienced at this level we have a mountain to climb.
The club did a fantastic marketing job this summer with the signings and season ticket sales the key will be keeping all those new found ticket holders on side during what will be a very difficult season.
I just hope they stay onside and don't take out their disappointed expectations on the team. I fear it will be a long season.
We'd be 12th if Kevin Friend had eyes, get a grip
Oh I have a grip I'm concerned about those that have not.
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3 points away from 6th- some people need to get a reality check. This is a side that is still coming together but a team that is unified and will improve.
spot on - 2 points behind Man U, Give the boys time, it will come good!
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After telling everybody all summer that we’re not doing a Fulham, it seems we might be after all.
It took Fulham all season to do a Fulham. It’s 4 games FFS
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It gets worse on every watch, utterly incompetent refereeing.
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As he’d blown the whistle before the ball went in the net, he couldn’t go to VAR to then see if he should allow it as the ball was dead. He could only have checked for a penalty.
Still got the dive wrong though.
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Really poor performance from the first minute, not an iota of ambition, but we were robbed of a point. Fuckin disgraceful decision from the ref.
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We'll know we're in real trouble when Stuart445 slithers back.
Did Newcastle win?
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I don't think Friend cheated, I think he was 'just' embarrassingly incompetent.
Well okay, then there is no way he should hold licence to referee in probably the hardest league in the world, furthermore, still doesn't explain how VAR have supported him in this terrible decision.
Agreed
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Referee aside, we have a lot of work to do ahead of the West Ham game.
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I think we all need to chill a bit. I think we will struggle but we cannot let this start get us down. I wasn’t there today nor do I get much chance to see us play but it hurts just as much from listening from afar. But I do hate the league as it seems it’s just an event for the sky elite to overhype. It hurts but we need to move on and Focus on survival and not bottle games
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We started well in both first and second half. But we surrendered initiative, to a point, as Palace looked like they didnt want to win either.
Palace were there for the taking and who knows, if Trezuguet wasnt such an idiot then maybe we do better.
But fuuuuuuuuck me. What the fuckety fuckety fuck fuck fuck was that ****** of a referee doing.
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Did the ref blow the whistle before Lansbury scored?
Allegedly that's what happened so somewhere in small print VAR can't actually judge a decision if whistle is blown and ball then flys into the net. Think that's to protect if an offside is called, defence stops and then players scores but feels a dodgy get out on this occasion.
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I don't think Friend cheated, I think he was 'just' embarrassingly incompetent.
Well okay, then there is no way he should hold licence to referee in probably the hardest league in the world, furthermore, still doesn't explain how VAR have supported him in this terrible decision.
But VAR is being reviewed by his fellow referees who always stick together and wouldn't want to criticise one of their own.
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3 points away from 6th- some people need to get a reality check. This is a side that is still coming together but a team that is unified and will improve.
somebody with some sense couldn't agree more
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We started well in both first and second half. But we surrendered initiative, to a point, as Palace looked like they didnt want to win either.
Palace were there for the taking and who knows, if Trezuguet wasnt such an idiot then maybe we do better.
But fuuuuuuuuck me. What the fuckety fuckety fuck fuck fuck was that c*** of a referee doing.
I'm sure this Ref is the kind of bloke that's raises the question of did we actually put men on the moon and was Kennedy shot by some bloke behind a grassy knoll...
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Did the ref blow the whistle before Lansbury scored?
Allegedly that's what happened so somewhere in small print VAR can't actually judge a decision if whistle is blown and ball then flys into the net. Think that's to protect if an offside is called, defence stops and then players scores but feels a dodgy get out on this occasion.
Yes, there was very little time for the defence to react to the whistle, Lansbury was already shooting the ball.
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I don't think Friend cheated, I think he was 'just' embarrassingly incompetent.
I agree. The other factor that influebced this shithouse of a referee was the howling gobby bastards in the Palace crowd. Seems to be a thing with cockney clubs these days. They definitely played a part in his risible decision making today. The only one i could credit him with getting right was the sending off. Trezeguet's challenge on Saha was utterly stupid when he was already on a yellow card.
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We are now 18th having just played some of the worst "Premier League" football I've seen in a while. I honestly think we are in big trouble.
And out they crawl.
If you thought we played well and were set-up to win that game anymore than a possible 0-1 then you're delusional.
As for "out they crawl" well that's a load of bollocks because I commented on our previous game.
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I don't think we need to panic, but I do find it slightly perturbing that out of three losses, two of them I'd put down more to our failings than opposition strengths. We all knew the Premier League was a step up, but I don't think we've really settled on a positive way to play. We're very counter-attacking and so far, we're not too brilliant at it.
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We are now 18th having just played some of the worst "Premier League" football I've seen in a while. I honestly think we are in big trouble.
Thanks amfy.
I also meant 'Konsa', not 'Kinda'!
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Friend has had bad matches against us in at least two previous matches.Not only did he somehow fail to see the Fulham right back stamp on Grealish right in front of him but he also in a match at Chelsea he failed to give the Chelsea defender who i think was Jonovic a red card for a elbow in the face of Benteke but also failed to see a blatant handball by Terry in the penalty area in injury time .Villa should ask for him to not to referee any more of our matches as it seems he seems to be against Villa.There again i am still waiting for any sort of action to be taken for the assault on Grealish at Small Heath ,so nothing will happen
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We could do with a game on Tuesday really but now have 2 weeks to mull over that.
The decision is that bad on every level, you can put one decision down to a mistake or ineptness but on the back of everything else that happened in that game he was always going to find a way to rule out our goal whenever/if we managed to score.
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???
We are now 18th having just played some of the worst "Premier League" football I've seen in a while. I honestly think we are in big trouble.
Thanks amfy.
I also meant 'Konsa', not 'Kinda'!
Eh?
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I know Specsavers offered Jack Leach free glasses for life.
...but any chance you can offer Kevin Friend the same deal too?
I think Dean Smith was spot on afterwards. Fucked off at the decision but said we didn't really deserve a point. We were certainly robbed of one though.
I've not been impressed at all with Trezeguet, some apallling theatrics when he's barely touched and not involved nearly enough today, again. Thought his first booking was harsh, but knowing you're on a yellow and then doing that was ridiculous.
Lots to do now before West Ham.
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At what point does gross incompetence become wilful negligence. If this was in a business relationship somebody would be getting sued or fired, yet we have to just take it on a chin as part of the game. I think back to the 6 Nations rugby and the refs were highly-respected and extremely professional - I'm trying to figure out why it works in rugby but not the EPL. How can there be such a gulf in ability unless by design. There is so much money involved in the EPL that I would not be surprised if corruption played a part, we know it does at FIFA.
...and yes, the moon-landings were filmed in Milton Keynes and JFK was shot from a grassy knoll by the Wombles.
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Remember when we used to say the that one of the bonus's of going up would be to not have to deal with the Championship referees any more? Sigh.
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What's the chances Grealish gets charged for his reaction?
If the ref blows the whistle for a dive before the ball goes in the net, & I'm not convinced he does, then the VAR should look at it & have given a penalty. If he blows up after the ball goes in then VAR should give the goal.
You've got to question the refs integrity.
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Remember when we used to say the that one of the bonus's of going up would be to not have to deal with the Championship referees any more? Sigh.
Unfortunately, in order for games to be played, there has to be a referee and if all the shit ones like Friend were dumped, there would be about 2 games played in the whole of England.
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I don't think we need to panic, but I do find it slightly perturbing that out of three losses, two of them I'd put down more to our failings than opposition strengths. We all knew the Premier League was a step up, but I don't think we've really settled on a positive way to play. We're very counter-attacking and so far, we're not too brilliant at it.
I was concerned with this against Everton.
We won, but it felt like Everton were the home side for a long stretch of that game. Deano also said after that match that the aim was to go more direct to Wesley and let Grealish and Jack feed off the scraps. I actually thought our use of the ball when we did have it was better than that, but I wouldn't have expected him to talk that way.
At our best last season, we simply overwhelmed teams. Home or away. Think Derby and Boro away, and Derby at home etc. We were relentless.
You have to pick your battles in this league, and I wouldn't slate us playing on the counter at home to the likes of Citeh or Liverpool etc. But Palarse home or away is one of the games where we need to show far more attacking intent. Even with the obvious caveat of no easy games in this league/ it's still a step up yada yada yada.
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Yes I think this is probably the biggest thing Deano needs to overcome. We need to be brave and start playing on the front foot more. I don’t think counter attack is our strongest suit and we’re a bit disjointed thus far.
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Yeah, I'd agree with that. We seem timid, almost like we don't want to go too attacking in case we get embarrassed. But I'd rather lose trying to win than lose not trying to lose. We put up with enough of that shit under managers we shan't mention.
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A review of the incident couldn’t give us a goal after the whistle was blown but surely it could have given us a penalty instead of a free kick against us? Isn’t it supposed to review debatable penalty decisions - clear and obvious errors?
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One bright spot for me today was Keinan's hold-up play, he did really well when he came on. Granted it's not the sub I would have made, but that's why I'm sitting at home in my underwear typing on the computer and Dean Smith is Villa manager.
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Player ratings from today?
3 points from 4 games is a poor enough start, losing to an awful Palace side with Jordan Ayew scoring a bitter pill to put it mildly.
Grealish was certainly pushed at end but did look a bit of a swan dive for the second challenge.
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We're being outmuscled by bigger and more physical players in midfield who also have technique so McGinn's bum-roll and Jack trying to take multiple players on is not going to be a tactic that always works at this level.
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VAR should not be a tool to validate referees. It should not be used to protect tough decisions. It should be used to get decisions right. The ball was already away and there was clearly contact, minimal or not.
This might sound petty, but is there some form of protest we can lodge? It seems fairly pointless as the FA will always protect its referees.. there needs to be an independent body because this was just plain unacceptable today. The reaction from the media and talking heads says a lot. My fear is anyone with a pair of eyes can see the contact on Jack, who didn't even protest the foul, but a career referee in a booth can't get it right. In fact, he offered support to Kevin Friend for his call. It's truly insane.
I was not happy with our performance today, but Luiz and Taylor getting cautioned with their first fouls was ridiculous. Trezeguet's first yellow was no such thing.
There has to be some course of action or a REAL review board that can hold a standard for the referees in the worlds top league. Kevin Friend will sleep tonight without a care or remorse. Fucking clown.
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A review of the incident couldn’t give us a goal after the whistle was blown but surely it could have given us a penalty instead of a free kick against us? Isn’t it supposed to review debatable penalty decisions - clear and obvious errors?
At minimum a free kick from the initial contact by Zaha on Grealish. But that in essence should have gone to review and a goal given as we would have been given the advantage from both fouls on Grealish.
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Remember when we used to say the that one of the bonus's of going up would be to not have to deal with the Championship referees any more? Sigh.
Very true. On reflection they were intermittently poor but not so comprehensively one sidedly shite as this clown.
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We could do with a game on Tuesday really but now have 2 weeks to mull over that.
The decision is that bad on every level, you can put one decision down to a mistake or ineptness but on the back of everything else that happened in that game he was always going to find a way to rule out our goal whenever/if we managed to score.
This is what I don't understand about people saying he's not a cheat he's just inept. Deano put it perfectly after the game: first 3 fouls of the game were on us, two on the edge of their box, not a single yellow given for those. Then within ten minutes of play we were given 4 yellows.
He's a fucking cod and a disgrace.
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We were poor and I’m not sure Douglas is up to speed and should be starting from the bench for me.
Today’s match proved to me what I have been thinking for the first three games, referees have been told to watch Jack as he dives/goes down to easily, hence he is getting no protection.
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Did the ref blow his whistle for the free kick against Grealish before the goal was scored? If so, presumably VAR couldn't overturn it. If not, then failing to go to VAR appears ridiculous.
VAR have confirmed they didn't disagree with Friend's pathetic decision, namely - that JG had apparently 'dived'.
What a shower of utter wankers.
Of course they are going to agree, after the event, because they just all stick together when one of their own gets it totally wrong, it is a exclusive club didn't you know!!
Anyway we just have to move on, we played badly but could (should) have got a point, that to me is a major postive, however our home form is going to be critical!
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This is what I don't understand about people saying he's not a cheat he's just inept. Deano put it perfectly after the game: first 3 fouls of the game were on us, two on the edge of their box, not a single yellow given for those. Then within ten minutes of play we were given 4 yellows.
True but that doesn't mean those 4 yellows were all incorrect decisions.
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A review of the incident couldn’t give us a goal after the whistle was blown but surely it could have given us a penalty instead of a free kick against us? Isn’t it supposed to review debatable penalty decisions - clear and obvious errors?
Agree. Surely var would have seen that the one thing it definately wasn't is a free kick to palace.
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Gary Lineker
The disallowed goal for @AVFCOfficial in the last minute has to be seen to be believed. Why VAR didn’t correct what appeared to be an awful refereeing error is beyond me.
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The problem with VAR is that now we have the facility, we want all contentious decisions reviewed regardless of where they happen, whereas IFAB want to limit it to make only decisions which could decide a game like a penalty or a red card. Clearly, in this case, you want VAR to review this period of action but it's not there for that under current regulations. Trouble is, where does a decision not become contentious? In midfield? You might get into a situation where all decisions beyond the eighteen yard line get looked at, which is ridiculous but would have sorted the one today.
But in short, VAR couldn't actually have done anything for us. What should have happened, and where we were cheated, was that Kevin Friend should have kept his whistle out of his mouth, played advantage like a proper referee and if he wasn't sure, consulted with his assistants after the goal went in. So instead of seminars on technology, maybe IFAB should be reminding referees how to use a fucking whistle.
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This is what I don't understand about people saying he's not a cheat he's just inept. Deano put it perfectly after the game: first 3 fouls of the game were on us, two on the edge of their box, not a single yellow given for those. Then within ten minutes of play we were given 4 yellows.
True but that's doesn't mean those 4 yellows were all incorrect decisions.
The issue when Zaha is getting away with it and Palace in general are getting away with challenges that our players were being booked for.
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We are now 18th having just played some of the worst "Premier League" football I've seen in a while. I honestly think we are in big trouble.
And out they crawl.
If you thought we played well and were set-up to win that game anymore than a possible 0-1 then you're delusional.
As for "out they crawl" well that's a load of bollocks because I commented on our previous game.
And how often were you on here during our record-breaking run of wins and after we got promoted?
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Haven’t seen any highlights yet but I’m fuming from what I’ve been hearing and reading. Plenty of teams pick up points when they don’t play well so I don’t care whether we deserved a point or not, but to be robbed of what could be a very valuable a point due to the incompetence of match officials in an era where we are using new video technology to get decisions right is an absolute embarrassing disgrace.
I’m also sick of hearing Jack being accused of dining when he gets kicked all over the shop game in, game out. When you have pundits, commentators and managers saying it’s ok for a player to go if they are touched (Scott Parker last night being the latest) then it’s more than a bit of a hypocritical double edged sword for anyone to throw diving accusations at Jack.
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Having just watched the short sky sports highlights, you can hear the whistle blown just as Henri is about to shoot, so VAR can't actually 'award' the goal, as play had stopped - even if they wanted to. They COULD have corrected the ref's mistake and given us a free-kick or a penalty, but there is no way within the current rules to give us a goal in those circumstances. Refs are supposed to play on a little longer, knowing VAR can correct a mistake, but he blew so quickly that was never an option. It's shit, but it's the way it is.
That said, not sure we really deserved much from today by the sounds of it, but a disallowed goal like that is going to hurt for a while I think...
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Gary Lineker
The disallowed goal for @AVFCOfficial in the last minute has to be seen to be believed. Why VAR didn’t correct what appeared to be an awful refereeing error is beyond me.
Doubtless Smurphy will find some way to give an alternative view of events
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VAR is a bumper bag of shite but I hope it isn't used to mask the work of Kevin Friend today. VAR isn't responsible for his whopping ineptitude, he achieved those staggeringly low levels of competence all on his own. And wasn't he pleased with himself? I hope his performance gets the spotlight it deserves.
Aside from that imbecile we were rubbish. We deserved nothing, but we should have had a point.
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Gary Lineker
The disallowed goal for @AVFCOfficial in the last minute has to be seen to be believed. Why VAR didn’t correct what appeared to be an awful refereeing error is beyond me.
Says it all, as Lineker has never liked us. Friend should be relegated after today's showing, quite frankly.
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Having just watched the short sky sports highlights, you can hear the whistle blown just as Henri is about to shoot, so VAR can't actually 'award' the goal, as play had stopped - even if they wanted to. They COULD have corrected the ref's mistake and given us a free-kick or a penalty, but there is no way within the current rules to give us a goal in those circumstances. Refs are supposed to play on a little longer, knowing VAR can correct a mistake, but he blew so quickly that was never an option. It's shit, but it's the way it is.
That said, not sure we really deserved much from today by the sounds of it, but a disallowed goal like that is going to hurt for a while I think...
I have heard that too...it’s a shit rule and only serves to endorse the incompetence of the referee for blowing so quickly. There has to be some common sense applied by match officials to allow play to carry on particularly around the penalty area especially now that they can call upon VAR to make correct decisions. I don’t care if we deserved a point or not, we were robbed of 1pt today and Palace gained 2pts.
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The problem with VAR is that now we have the facility, we want all contentious decisions reviewed regardless of where they happen, whereas IFAB want to limit it to make only decisions which could decide a game like a penalty or a red card. Clearly, in this case, you want VAR to review this period of action but it's not there for that under current regulations. Trouble is, where does a decision not become contentious? In midfield? You might get into a situation where all decisions beyond the eighteen yard line get looked at, which is ridiculous but would have sorted the one today.
But in short, VAR couldn't actually have done anything for us. What should have happened, and where we were cheated, was that Kevin Friend should have kept his whistle out of his mouth, played advantage like a proper referee and if he wasn't sure, consulted with his assistants after the goal went in. So instead of seminars on technology, maybe IFAB should be reminding referees how to use a fucking whistle.
It was either a penalty or a goal, and in the penalty area, isn't that what VAR is all about?
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If the dingles lose by two clear goals tomorrow, am I right in thinking we'll be out of the bottom three? Looking at the table, one win will get you mid-table!
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The thing that really gets me angry is the inconsistency of yellow cards, and not just today.
The first yellow for Trez, he's a fraction later than his opponent to a bouncing ball and gets a yellow, but it's a genuine attempt to play a loose ball.
Then their captain deliberately pulls back his opponent with no attempt to play the ball, it's pure cheating, but he gets a ticking off?
It's just fucking twattery.
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The yellows were soft today but actually thought Trezeguet’s were the most legit and his second was just brainless considering it should have been obvious by then the ref was a homer. He doesn’t get a pass from me.
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We were in line with Grealish when he was brought down and assumed the ref had possibly blown for a pen only for him to decide he had seen something that nobody else had. I get the point about refs clamping down on diving but there was no intention to deceive and no dive.
There was obvious contact not once, but twice so falling down is to be expected at speed.
Friend had earmarked Grealish from the outset, but not Zaha who was excused any fouling.
That said, we were very poor from 20 mins in until we conceded. Whether we merited all the yellow cards or not, Smith simply had to change things at half time.
Trezeguet and Jota were ineffectual and Luiz and Wesley just didn't get to grips with the game. The insistence on playing two wide players was negligent given the amount of midfield possession we conceded.
Also, at this level, you have to have better free kick delivery. The free kicks without Hourihane were simply abject.
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I can't believe var even looked at the incident and said, Yes, definite dive.
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Feels to me that the ref had decided jack is a diver and took it upon himself to be a Johnny big bollocks about it, putting himself front and centre. Absolutely the opposite of how a good, professional ref should be approaching a game.
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You could tell it was a foul as Cahill pretends to be injured. I was also directly in line and I felt he'd given a penalty first too.
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I don’t think Friend was cheating, but he very obviously came to the game with a preconception and he let it colour his judgement.
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Missed the first fifteen minutes.
Thought the ref had a bit of a mare. But we can't allow that to hide the fact we were mainly garbage throughout. Bit worrying.
We can't do anything about the refs performance, but we can and absolutely must do something about ours.
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If the referee wasnt a ******, we get a point. We certainly could have played much better and weren't particularly good in the slightest; too deep, slow and tentative against poor opposition.
But Grealish cut them apart, was fouled by Zaha, was fouled by Cahill, pops the ball off and Lansbury buried an equaliser.
But Kevin Friend is a ******, so we cant talk about grinding a result out.
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8)
The problem with VAR is that now we have the facility, we want all contentious decisions reviewed regardless of where they happen, whereas IFAB want to limit it to make only decisions which could decide a game like a penalty or a red card. Clearly, in this case, you want VAR to review this period of action but it's not there for that under current regulations. Trouble is, where does a decision not become contentious? In midfield? You might get into a situation where all decisions beyond the eighteen yard line get looked at, which is ridiculous but would have sorted the one today.
But in short, VAR couldn't actually have done anything for us. What should have happened, and where we were cheated, was that Kevin Friend should have kept his whistle out of his mouth, played advantage like a proper referee and if he wasn't sure, consulted with his assistants after the goal went in. So instead of seminars on technology, maybe IFAB should be reminding referees how to use a fucking whistle.
It was either a penalty or a goal, and in the penalty area, isn't that what VAR is all about?
Spot on. Grealish was clearly fouled so it's exactly where VAR should step in. Just why they didn't is anybodys guess. You could say that they waited to see if we scored,which we did. So advantage was correctly played. Once he blew his whisle for the perceived dive they had a duty to overrule the ref and give the penalty. So the ref got it wrong. VAR tried to do the right thing but ultimitely did nothing. Both parties clearly at fault and failed to follow the new directives. Friend should be dropped from the rota as he's obviously incompetent. And whoever the faceless prat is who was the VAR official today should be given the boot from his cushy little number. But wer'e dealing with the referees closed shop mafia here so expect neither to be punished for their incompetence. Oh it's great to be back amongst the elite isn't it?
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That's all well and good.
But when he dishes out four yellow cards early doors you understand players being far more cautious and playing within themselves.
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You could tell it was a foul as Cahill pretends to be injured. I was also directly in line and I felt he'd given a penalty first too.
100%
He rolls on the ground clutching his leg essentially admitting contact.. balls already away at that point. I just don’t see the rationale of VAR protecting the referee.
I’m mad as hell and trying to be rationale but it just seems like we’ll be given a “get over it” by the FA. Meanwhile Friend sleeps like a baby tonight.
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The referee was poor, but we weren't great either.
I worry we are too small as a side and our midfield is just not getting enough of the ball or keeping it well enough.
I'd like to see Hourihane and Luiz sitting with Grealish McGinn and either Trezegeut or Jota behind Wesley. Other than the Bournemouth game it seems like we've constantly been the team defending and that just isn't sustainable. I think 3 points from 12 is a good enough reason to try something slightly different.
Thought Davis looked good when he came on, won the ball quite a few times in their half and held it up superbly.
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We do seem to get bullied in midfield.
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We do seem to get bullied in midfield.
The midfield three isn't working at all to my eyes this season.
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The worst thing is you can guarantee some ****** with generic 'opinions' are going to use the old well he deserves it for all his previous dives bollocks.
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I can't believe var even looked at the incident and said, Yes, definite dive.
The thing is do we know that? Maybe VAR was and the ref on the pitch decided not to use it. VAR is just a human or group of humans with a bunch of monitors at different angles specifically tasked with helping the three officials on the pitch. Frankly I’m astonished that neither assistant didn’t catch it. Friend is directly behind both fouls as they happened. That’s fucking gross incompetence on its own. But had he gone to VAR he may well have been told it wasn’t a dive but he seemingly chose not to use it.
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...and Selhurst Park has to be the worst ground in the Prem. Considering they have been in the top flight for a good few years, it's just incredible that it's still stuck in the 80s in every aspect.
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The problem with VAR is that now we have the facility, we want all contentious decisions reviewed regardless of where they happen, whereas IFAB want to limit it to make only decisions which could decide a game like a penalty or a red card. Clearly, in this case, you want VAR to review this period of action but it's not there for that under current regulations. Trouble is, where does a decision not become contentious? In midfield? You might get into a situation where all decisions beyond the eighteen yard line get looked at, which is ridiculous but would have sorted the one today.
But in short, VAR couldn't actually have done anything for us. What should have happened, and where we were cheated, was that Kevin Friend should have kept his whistle out of his mouth, played advantage like a proper referee and if he wasn't sure, consulted with his assistants after the goal went in. So instead of seminars on technology, maybe IFAB should be reminding referees how to use a fucking whistle.
It was either a penalty or a goal, and in the penalty area, isn't that what VAR is all about?
Nope. The ref was wrong to blow, but the nudge/trip/fall that he blew for started outside the box.
It would be interesting to see where they took there free-kick from.
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Is there any course of action the club can take at this point?
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Feels to me that the ref had decided jack is a diver and took it upon himself to be a Johnny big bollocks about it, putting himself front and centre. Absolutely the opposite of how a good, professional ref should be approaching a game.
I was thinking that myself earlier. It's so annoying when refs make it all about them ( even though we sounded crap today)!
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https://www.skysports.com/football/c-palace-vs-a-villa/408014
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Feels to me that the ref had decided jack is a diver and took it upon himself to be a Johnny big bollocks about it, putting himself front and centre. Absolutely the opposite of how a good, professional ref should be approaching a game.
I was thinking that myself earlier. It's so annoying when refs make it all about them ( even though we sounded crap today)!
We were crap and had we lost 3-0 it wouldn’t have been an unfair result. That said, and we’ve been there, it’s not how it works and in the end we were denied a chance to level the game from a free kick if it was Zaha that was adjudged to have fouled Jack, or a penalty if the foul was deemed to be against Cahill or just having the goal from Lansbury stand. Instead we lost the game and picked up yellow card number 6 or whatever the fuck number it was.
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Friend was the 4th official in the Play off vs Fulham looking straight at Fredricks stamp on Grealish.
He didn't ref another Villa game for 2 years after the Chelsea game when Lambert reporting his performance to Mike Riley.
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Friend was the 4th official in the Play off vs Fulham looking straight at Fredricks stamp on Grealish.
He didn't ref another Villa game for 2 years after the Chelsea game when Lambert reporting his performance to Mike Riley.
Jesus.
Hope Dean knows all this. Seemed disinclined to make an issue of it in the interview. Was asked if he spoke to the ref after, he said what's the point?
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It's an utterly inept decision and he shouldn't be in the game if he sees that as a dive.
I'm terms of the game we were poor bar the opening 5 minutes of either half. I have massive concerns about persisting with two wide players away from home particularly when they're so ineffective. Jota looks like a luxury we can't afford when we don't have a lot of the ball.
Douglas Luiz wasn't deep enough against Everton and he was too deep today, I think we need to sacrifice one of the wide players and get the three guys in the middle a little bit of assistance. Hourihane is limited but he'd of been a better option than Jota today considering how little threat we carried wide.
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It was comfortably our worst performance since the start of the season, but I still think we'll improve.
The display against Everton was very good and that has to be the benchmark. If we can reproduce that at home consistently we'll be fine.
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...and Selhurst Park has to be the worst ground in the Prem. Considering they have been in the top flight for a good few years, it's just incredible that it's still stuck in the 80s in every aspect.
The master of précis Our Darren said we played shit and Selhurst Park is a shit ground a while back. Today we had a shit ref for the full set.
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That's all well and good.
But when he dishes out four yellow cards early doors you understand players being far more cautious and playing within themselves.
Agreed, dishing out 4 yellow cards in the first 40 minutes, 3 of which were to defensive players, while giving Palace free rein to commit bookable offences with impunity puts us at a huge disadvantage.
Spurs and Everton both got away with persistent tactical fouling. The standard of refereeing has been awful so far.
Unless I've missed it nobody has mentioned the Davis for Jota substitution at 0-0. I found this unorthodox to say the least. I'd have expected probably Hourihane to come on into a 4-4-1 formation personally.
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Then we should report the fucker again
However, we are clearly battling. We have been on the backfoot in every game we have played.
Against Everton at home we did not have a single corner.
We have a break to assess where we are but I hope we come back with a bit more a bit more attacking intent.
Although we support the team and the settling in of the new guys, it will take a couple more transfer windows to have a team that meets the standard.
since we went down the established teams (or the ones still there) have had how many windows, 6 I guess to strengthen their teams.
It shows
Physically we are out muscled and harried.
Onwards and upwards, but there seems to me a big gap.
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That's all well and good.
But when he dishes out four yellow cards early doors you understand players being far more cautious and playing within themselves.
Agreed, dishing out 4 yellow cards in the first 40 minutes, 3 of which were to defensive players, while giving Palace free rein to commit bookable offences with impunity puts us at a huge disadvantage.
Spurs and Everton both got away with persistent tactical fouling. The standard of refereeing has been awful so far.
Unless I've missed it nobody has mentioned the Davis for Jota substitution at 0-0. I found this unorthodox to say the least. I'd have expected probably Hourihane to come on into a 4-4-1 formation personally.
How did Ayew's late stamp on Taylor and SJM getting his shirt grabbed at the top of the box go uncautioned?
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S*n have pics of it kicking off in the away end after the final whistle.
Not providing a link, obv.
Looks like Engels was there applauding the support and fans were moving down towards him. So maybe overzealous police with batons weren't required.
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One bright spot for me today was Keinan's hold-up play, he did really well when he came on.
Keinan did more in 30 minutes than Wesley did in pretty much the entire game. I'm also not buying this nonsense that Wesley had "no outlet and he was isolated" he made himself isolated by not coming for the ball, laying it off and making a run.
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I'm far more fucked off at VAR over the disallowed goal, Friend was incompetent all game so no surprise he got that wrong as well, VAR is meant to be there to fix things when a ref is shit/has a bad game/makes a genuine mistake.
VAR is overseen by a panel of referees in a room somewhere in each stadium. If you think they will overturn their colleague's decisions then I have a bridge to sell you.
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Is it a nice bridge? What colour is it?
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Then we should report the fucker again
However, we are clearly battling. We have been on the backfoot in every game we have played.
Against Everton at home we did not have a single corner.
We have a break to assess where we are but I hope we come back with a bit more a bit more attacking intent.
Although we support the team and the settling in of the new guys, it will take a couple more transfer windows to have a team that meets the standard.
since we went down the established teams (or the ones still there) have had how many windows, 6 I guess to strengthen their teams.
It shows
Physically we are out muscled and harried.
Onwards and upwards, but there seems to me a big gap.
Spot on Steamer ....it's quite concerning just how we are being outbattled , particularly in midfield .
I really didn't foresee us struggling against Bournemouth and Palace - doesn't auger well for the games against Liverpool, Citeh and Chelski.... lot of work required in the short break
Hopefully Mings comes through the Internationals unscathed
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video of the police at the away end
https://twitter.com/aaronsmurphy/status/1167833839328210947
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https://twitter.com/EnderssFM/status/1167834459242213376
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Is it a nice bridge? What colour is it?
knowing our luck it's a bridge " too far"
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video of the police at the away end
https://twitter.com/aaronsmurphy/status/1167833839328210947
I'm no solicitor but the response from the police seems to be excessive and to use a " weapon" so indiscriminately is surely " assault by battering" at the very least
I bet the"press" will see things differently, support the police and stewards with our club and fans being pilloried again
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In fairness the second video posted doesn't seem to show a few of our fans in the greatest light either
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Then we should report the fucker again
However, we are clearly battling. We have been on the backfoot in every game we have played.
Against Everton at home we did not have a single corner.
We have a break to assess where we are but I hope we come back with a bit more a bit more attacking intent.
Although we support the team and the settling in of the new guys, it will take a couple more transfer windows to have a team that meets the standard.
since we went down the established teams (or the ones still there) have had how many windows, 6 I guess to strengthen their teams.
It shows
Physically we are out muscled and harried.
Onwards and upwards, but there seems to me a big gap.
Spot on Steamer ....it's quite concerning just how we are being outbattled , particularly in midfield .
I really didn't foresee us struggling against Bournemouth and Palace - doesn't auger well for the games against Liverpool, Citeh and Chelski.... lot of work required in the short break
Hopefully Mings comes through the Internationals unscathed
These are established prem teams. They might not have many names in the 11 that are widely known but as a group they know how to grind out the results to get to 40 points ever year.
We're a bit green, naive and also a bit toothless in the final third. Dosen't mean we can't still win games at this level like last week.
Hardly any of the bottom half will be getting points off Liverpool or Man. City this season, they are both that good and should just go to Asia and play each other 30 times to decide the league.
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In fairness the second video posted doesn't seem to show a few of our fans in the greatest light either
Villa fans kicked off. But...what the videos dont show is the stewards baiting, pushing and shoving before Villa fans reacted.
PC Lathwood handing out the kosh with gay abandon. But then its football fans, so who gives a fuck, it's all fair apparently.
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In fairness the second video posted doesn't seem to show a few of our fans in the greatest light either
Villa fans kicked off. But...what the videos dont show is the stewards baiting, pushing and shoving before Villa fans reacted.
PC Lathwood handing out the kosh with gay abandon. But then its football fans, so who gives a fuck, it's all fair apparently.
Who said it was fair?
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In fairness the second video posted doesn't seem to show a few of our fans in the greatest light either
Villa fans kicked off. But...what the videos dont show is the stewards baiting, pushing and shoving before Villa fans reacted.
PC Lathwood handing out the kosh with gay abandon. But then its football fans, so who gives a fuck, it's all fair apparently.
Who said it was fair?
I'm talking generally. Police get away with a lot. He'll be back at work for his next shift. Hes got a reputation apparently and some previous, yet there he is, knocking lumps out of somebody prone and posing no threat.
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We weren't out battled today.
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In fairness the second video posted doesn't seem to show a few of our fans in the greatest light either
Villa fans kicked off. But...what the videos dont show is the stewards baiting, pushing and shoving before Villa fans reacted.
PC Lathwood handing out the kosh with gay abandon. But then its football fans, so who gives a fuck, it's all fair apparently.
Who said it was fair?
I'm talking generally. Police get away with a lot. He'll be back at work for his next shift. Hes got a reputation apparently and some previous, yet there he is, knocking lumps out of somebody prone and posing no threat.
Hardly reacting in a controlled or restrained manner.....I sincerely hope no one was injured or even arrested in the face of such provocative behaviour
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Friend was the 4th official in the Play off vs Fulham looking straight at Fredricks stamp on Grealish.
He didn't ref another Villa game for 2 years after the Chelsea game when Lambert reporting his performance to Mike Riley.
That’s got to be the club’s stance this time too. Once is barely excusable, 3 times it’s clear he has it in for us.
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We weren't out battled today.
Did we lack creativity ?
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Yes, Grealish far too deep. McGinn started the second half pushing a lot further up and it yielded pressure. Trezuguet gets sent off and we naturally retreat a bit.
Palace stand off you and defend as an entire unit with 11 behind the ball and look to swamp you. If you're Grelaish and 40 yards from goal, you've got a lot to do to create something.
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I can't believe var even looked at the incident and said, Yes, definite dive.
The thing is do we know that? Maybe VAR was and the ref on the pitch decided not to use it. VAR is just a human or group of humans with a bunch of monitors at different angles specifically tasked with helping the three officials on the pitch. Frankly I’m astonished that neither assistant didn’t catch it. Friend is directly behind both fouls as they happened. That’s fucking gross incompetence on its own. But had he gone to VAR he may well have been told it wasn’t a dive but he seemingly chose not to use it.
That's what i think. It all happened too quickly for var to have been used.
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Yes, Grealish far too deep. McGinn started the second half pushing a lot further up and it yielded pressure. Trezuguet gets sent off and we naturally retreat a bit.
Palace stand off you and defend as an entire unit with 11 behind the ball and look to swamp you. If you're Grelaish and 40 yards from goal, you've got a lot to do to create something.
Agreed Ads. It’s what I said at the start of this. It’s not about being bigger or stronger. I thought tactically Dean got it wrong and we got overrun. I wouldn’t have played two wingers and played Conor as a fourth midfielder. And once it became obvious the current set up wasn’t working he didn’t make the needed changes and preserved with Trezeguet and Jota. One of them had to come off. And this tactic of launching long cross field balls to our wingers isn’t working.
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???We are now 18th having just played some of the worst "Premier League" football I've seen in a while. I honestly think we are in big trouble.
Thanks amfy.
I also meant 'Konsa', not 'Kinda'!
Eh?
Sorry, meant to reply to this:
Anyone know why our fans were singing"fuck the EFL"?
Also that Kinda song is grim in every aspect.
In support of Bury.
In support of Bury.
[/quote]
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I can't believe var even looked at the incident and said, Yes, definite dive.
The thing is do we know that? Maybe VAR was and the ref on the pitch decided not to use it. VAR is just a human or group of humans with a bunch of monitors at different angles specifically tasked with helping the three officials on the pitch. Frankly I’m astonished that neither assistant didn’t catch it. Friend is directly behind both fouls as they happened. That’s fucking gross incompetence on its own. But had he gone to VAR he may well have been told it wasn’t a dive but he seemingly chose not to use it.
That's what i think. It all happened too quickly for var to have been used.
Part of VAR is to be retroactive and ultimately get the decision right. So there was time for Friend to get an opinion from the VAR and make the correct call. He could have been told Grealish didn’t dive, and while it was a foul it went on to Lansbury who then scored. Palace would have had no grounds to be upset when they reviewed it after.
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Like many I was concerned about the absence of a goal scoring threat - add to that the lack of creativity and we will no doubt struggle in this league ....Dean needs to look at videos of all four games thus far and reassess the way we need to approach the next few games ....it was a great win over Everton but the result papered over a few cracks
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Think we’re going to have to change the shape a bit to get Grealish further up the pitch and give us some more presence in midfield. Probably means losing a winger.
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Think we’re going to have to change the shape a bit to get Grealish further up the pitch and give us some more presence in midfield. Probably means losing a winger.
Thats ok with me, Trez hasn't been great and Jota will be better suited to a 4-2-3-1, also gives us the added addition of Hourihane/Nakamba next to Luiz. Jack on the 10 or on the left if the 3.
Wesley
Grealish McGinn Jota
Hourihane Luiz
Edit.. I think we can only play this succesfully when Targett replaces Taylor as we will need our full backs to bomb on.
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The truth is shit like this generally balances itself out. The harshest part of today is that we need to be better. Palace could and should have won handily today.
Nobody is going to feel sorry for us. And we cannot feel sorry for ourselves because that’s what leads to relegation. Dean Smith needs to figure this midfield thing out because two wingers isn’t working. We are not playing close enough to Wesley. The wingers are isolated as is our CF. We are being pushed back too easily by 4 and 5 man midfield systems.
This is Dean Smith’s big test. It was always going to happen so he needs to figure it out in the next week during the break. Next up West Ham and then Arsenal won’t be any easier than today.
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Can we afford to only have one defensive midfielder in a 3?
Particularly away.
Why not play SJM and Jack further forward and strengthen the middle.
Games are won and lost in the middle of the pitch.
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Not going to go on about the goal as we all know it should have stood etc etc. However, we were very very poor today. We made Palace look good and they're not, they're a poor side at home but could have been 2-0 up at half time.
Grealish is playing far too deep. The one time he ran at their defence we 'scored'
McGinn looks lost
Luiz is a passenger and offers zero protection to the back four and nothing going forward
Our wingers were crap and not in the game at all and didn't protect our full backs
The midfield is the issue, something needs to change in there. We're not seeing enough of the ball and not creating anything, Wesley was feeding on scraps today. For me we need two in front of the back four and then a fluid three behind Wesley. This would give us more protection, more possession and give Grealish more of a free role. Our biggest chance of scoring in this league is going to be from a set piece yet our only decent free kick taker Hourihane isn't playing. Trezeguet's free kicks are shit.
Massive two week break for us now and that West Ham game already looks huge. Lose that and all of a sudden we've lost four of the first five and have three points from fifteen.
I'm not expecting us to be top six but I am expecting us to have more control in games and look good against teams like Palace after spending £130m.
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The truth is shit like this generally balances itself out. The harshest part of today is that we need to be better. Palace could and should have won handily today.
Nobody is going to feel sorry for us. And we cannot feel sorry for ourselves because that’s what leads to relegation. Dean Smith needs to figure this midfield thing out because two wingers isn’t working. We are not playing close enough to Wesley. The wingers are isolated as is our CF. We are being pushed back too easily by 4 and 5 man midfield systems.
This is Dean Smith’s big test. It was always going to happen so he needs to figure it out in the next week during the break. Next up West Ham and then Arsenal won’t be any easier than today.
Problem is when the shit happens to rebalance things VAR will intervene. Sod’s law is the only law.
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Think we’re going to have to change the shape a bit to get Grealish further up the pitch and give us some more presence in midfield. Probably means losing a winger.
Thats ok with me, Trez hasn't been great and Jota will be better suited to a 4-2-3-1, also gives us the added addition of Hourihane/Nakamba next to Luiz. Jack in the 10 or on the left if the 3.
Wesley
Grealish McGinn Jota
Hourihane Luiz
Yes something like this
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Jack is never particularly effective when he’s playing too deep.
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I can't believe var even looked at the incident and said, Yes, definite dive.
The thing is do we know that? Maybe VAR was and the ref on the pitch decided not to use it. VAR is just a human or group of humans with a bunch of monitors at different angles specifically tasked with helping the three officials on the pitch. Frankly I’m astonished that neither assistant didn’t catch it. Friend is directly behind both fouls as they happened. That’s fucking gross incompetence on its own. But had he gone to VAR he may well have been told it wasn’t a dive but he seemingly chose not to use it.
That's what i think. It all happened too quickly for var to have been used.
Part of VAR is to be retroactive and ultimately get the decision right. So there was time for Friend to get an opinion from the VAR and make the correct call. He could have been told Grealish didn’t dive, and while it was a foul it went on to Lansbury who then scored. Palace would have had no grounds to be upset when they reviewed it after.
Unfortunately this would not have been possible.
Once the referee blows his whistle the game is deemed to have been stopped.
As he blew his whistle before the goal was scored, VAR could not have given it even if the 'dive' was overturned.
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VAR could have given a penalty though.
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For me Friend had clearly bought into the "Grealish is a diver" mantra as spouted by the likes of Leed, SHA and the Bitters. He seemed determined to treat every challenge on Jack as a dive. The clear barge by McCarthy first half went unpunished by even a foul. Let alone a yellow card, which were being dispensed to Villa players at the first possible opportunity and on the merest pretext. It set a tone. The climax was the epitome of this attitude. Clearly looking to punish Grealish above all else. And made an utter twat of himself to the whole world in the process. It doesn't help us that he has been shown up as a ******.
And to be fair we were a bit shite. But it grates when the result comes down to an official that very obviously has some kind of axe to grind. He's got form with us. He's the latest reincarnation of Elleray and Halsey who gave us less than nothing. We need to ask the PL to keep him away form us in future based on more than one dodgy performance.
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They've just had this on the PL review show on channel 3.
"Grotesque" was the word one pundit used. All agreed that VAR couldn't overrule the "non-goal" but couldn't understand why the dive verdict couldn't be overturned to a penalty.
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Just got back in, what an awful day.
This was a difficult fixture and although there were some positive points, it’s clear we sill have to up our game, especially away from home if we are going to survive in the Premier League.
The referee was awful today, and it was easy to predict in the first half that we were going to get someone sent off today because of how he was handling the game. The goal being disallowed would have been an awful decision on its own, but on top of the rest of his performance it seems unprofessional.
I do believe that it is rare that a game is lost solely based on poor refereeing and that had we performed better then we may not have been so susceptible to a wrong decision denying us points. I believe that there is more to come from this squad and that we will improve, we just have to make sure we improve fast enough to make it count this season.
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Beer is the answer tonight. In short somedays you’re the statue somedays you’re the pigeon......
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Probably not a popular opinion, but Grealish wasn't fouled, and he wasn't looking for a penalty either. It was a perfectly good pass, played when he was a bit off balance. The goal should have stood as there was no dive and no penalty. Grealish's head is in the direction of where the ball has gone, and there is absolutely no appeal from him for a penalty. How the hell twathead has missed that, or come to the conclusion that he has is deeply frustrating because the EFL is run by a bunch of complete boys network wankers.
What a complete tool Trezeguet is. Stupid tackle. We need to be far less naive with and without the ball.
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Sorry to harp on about our songs, but "England's centre half" at Mings? Is this really how diminished we are?
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Absolutely fucking shocking decision that cost us a point today. Don't care if the team played shit. They did enough to get a point and it was taken away. Appalling decision.
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Sorry to harp on about our songs, but "England's centre half" at Mings? Is this really how diminished we are?
Our centre half just got his first England call up, what's wrong with that? We used to sing Barry for England when we were fairly good.
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We have some good footballers in midfield.
But we lack ‘power’ in there.
That’s the only word I can come up with to describe what I think is missing.
Oh, and trezeguet was a tosser today. He really needs to have a word with himself and cut out the diving for a start.
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We have some good footballers in midfield.
But we lack ‘power’ in there.
That’s the only word I can come up with to describe what I think is missing.
Oh, and trezeguet was a tosser today. He really needs to have a word with himself and cut out the diving for a start.
Physicality?
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I thought the ‘Hand of Rod’ is as the the worst single decision I’ve seen given against Villa team but appears I was wrong. Unbelievably poor from Mr Friend.
Weren’t great but that’s a seperate issue.
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Not defending a below par performance ... however before we hit the panic button, it is not just that the Friend et al get it wrong at the end but the fouls awarded, the yellow cards that are not merited do make a difference.
Not least because it allows the to break up the game, waste time (when sides have worked out we want to play quickly) and the fact that free-kicks awarded against us are a chance for the opposition to put us under pressure.
The bookings against Fred and the first for Trez were terrible decisions. The challenge by Fred was not even a foul.
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The worst thing is if he'd waited half a second on the whistle VAR could've been used, to rush to blow up makes it looks like he knew it would make it more difficult for his decision to be overturned so it just looked spiteful. Whether he was intentionally fucking us or just incompetent is about the only question to be asked over the whole thing.
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Sorry to harp on about our songs, but "England's centre half" at Mings? Is this really how diminished we are?
Our centre half just got his first England call up, what's wrong with that? We used to sing Barry for England when we were fairly good.
But for better or worse Barry was never properly used by England until he'd fucked off. It just seems a bit cringe for us - the team that's had the most (or second-most) England players to get so excited about it.
I might just be being mardy because I hated pretty much everything today.
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And while I'm on, Ayew gets a lucky break of the ball for the goal.
It happens, and happened for Palace today. It didn't happen for us.
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the team that's had the most (or second-most) England players to get so excited about it.
We're down to 4th these days.
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the team that's had the most (or second-most) England players to get so excited about it.
We're down to 4th these days.
I told you today was shit! I think my point still stands though.
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the team that's had the most (or second-most) England players to get so excited about it.
We're down to 4th these days.
2nd below Spurzzzz?
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I didn’t see the game, but I have just seen the incident. Kevin Friend should never be allowed to referee another game again. Terrible terrible decision.
And I miss the championship. I think we need to get smart and get smart quickly.
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If we're smart, we can use the injustice from this to fire us up.
That shocker at Leedzzz seemed to unify the group. The new lads now have their Bamford.
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Give Jenas Credit “ worst decision I have ever seen”
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Yep, all 3 of them seemed certain that it was a fucking awful decision, hopefully the sheer amount of noise will force something to happen to Friend, he simply can't away with such an awful decision.
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That free kick Palace had end of first half...if you watch the run Palace player had it was near identical to Jack in that he was running at speed and clipped from behind.
It was an awful awful decision. Only thing we can do is get in touch with FA and request Kevin Friend dosen't ref a game of ours for a very long time which many clubs have done in the past.
I remember years back we had that run of games with Halsley messing us about and he didn't ref us for quite a while. Wasn't it over a year before Dowd took a game for us after the cup final decision?
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I can't guarantee my own safety if that prick refs us again.
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Nice to see Jenas be categorical in his disgust at the ref's decision. Of course he's right but I wonder is there a bit of residual guilt for doing little to earn his wages at Villa (unlucky to be tripped up by an errant water sprinkler at VP that effectively rendered him injured for most of his time with us).
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Im usually the most laid back idiot but im still fucking fuming over it.
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Dean Smith should have taken Trezeguet off at half time, he has so far has been very disappointing.
I was worried in the first fifteen as our very reliable defence were making stupid mistakes and the whole team looked disjointed. I wish posters didn't wet their pants so easily we were not good enough today but it wasn't the disaster that some are making out this is a tough gig and we as a team have had little time to settle, we will get better.
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I actually hope he gets a gig at Villa Park sometime soon.
Give us all a chance to let us know what we really think of him.
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Well well. I'm hoping that knobhead Kevin Friend has watched motd tonight. Fair play to Jenas "worst decision i've ever seen" And Lineker pointed out that at no time could you see said knobhead put the whistle to his mouth. Joker. Coupled with the blatant pen Wet Spam we're denied just what's the point of VAR? I'm actually starting to think that the refs don't want VAR undermining them and are actively out to sabotage it.
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At the end of the day no matter how much we cry about the incompetence of the ref( which is justified) we was shit. Pissed off with performance and ref. Goodnight.
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The ref blowing the whistle is a cover-up. He doesn't blow the whistle, unless he's running with it in his mouth.
It's clear the directive is not to overrule the refs decision, even when it's clearly wrong.
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Nice to see Jenas be categorical in his disgust at the ref's decision. Of course he's right but I wonder is there a bit of residual guilt for doing little to earn his wages at Villa (unlucky to be tripped up by an errant water sprinkler at VP that effectively rendered him injured for most of his time with us).
He hasn't displayed that at any other time he has commented on us.
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The ref blowing the whistle is a cover-up. He doesn't blow the whistle, unless he's running with it in his mouth.
What are you suggesting happened? Someone whistled in the crowd and he just went along with it? It was somehow edited in to live streams?
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I'm still very, very angry that decision has ruined my Weekend. Fuming
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The ref blowing the whistle is a cover-up. He doesn't blow the whistle, unless he's running with it in his mouth.
What are you suggesting happened? Someone whistled in the crowd and he just went along with it? It was somehow edited in to live streams?
From the angles shown on MOTD and as Lineker pointed out, Friend doesn’t reach for his whistle and it would be physically impossible for him to have whilstled after Jack released the ball and Lansbury but the ball in the net. There is a whistle sound on the replay but doesn’t look like it was Friend that made it. No explanations but it looks dodgy as fuck. Absolutely fuming with the decision.
Just to reiterate my point and disagree strongly with those saying we played shit and didn’t deserve a point...well that’s football! If the cliche about picking up points when not playing well is good enough to be used for teams chasing the league title, then it’s good enough for teams in the middle of the league or fighting relation.
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We didn't deserve a point but we should have had one, i'm not sure many would disagree with that.
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Oh and Trez, both yellows were deserved and that second challenge was plain stupid to make when on a yellow.
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The ref blowing the whistle is a cover-up. He doesn't blow the whistle, unless he's running with it in his mouth.
What are you suggesting happened? Someone whistled in the crowd and he just went along with it? It was somehow edited in to live streams?
From the angles shown on MOTD and as Lineker pointed out, Friend doesn’t reach for his whistle and it would be physically impossible for him to have whilstled after Jack released the ball and Lansbury but the ball in the net. There is a whistle sound on the replay but doesn’t look like it was Friend that made it.
Both angles cut away from the referee, so while you can't see him lift the whistle, that's because he's not in frame.
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We didn't deserve a point but we should have had one, i'm not sure many would disagree with that.
Exaccerly PWS. Not deserving it doesn't mean we weren't still robbed.
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Ok, I'm gonna say it, if Jack doesn't stick out his left leg, then we get the goal. It reminds me of how Ashley Young dives.
He/we will learn from this.
Kevin Friend is still a c**t though.
UTV
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We have some good footballers in midfield.
But we lack ‘power’ in there.
That’s the only word I can come up with to describe what I think is missing.
Oh, and trezeguet was a tosser today. He really needs to have a word with himself and cut out the diving for a start.
Was the same as game wore on against Spurs and we struggled against Bournmouth untill they took Billing off.We don't have physicality in the middle of the park we also don't really have any one with a quick turn of pace either other than Guilbert who didn't have much opportunity to get forward today.
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I've just got back to the north west after a brief sojourn in Brum.
I'm fucking gutted. And angry. And it's over 2 weeks to flush it from the system.
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Ok, I'm gonna say it, if Jack doesn't stick out his left leg, then we get the goal. It reminds me of how Ashley Young dives.
He/we will learn from this.
Kevin Friend is still a c**t though.
UTV
I don’t see what you’re seeing? 🤔 Jack is pushed from behind so he’s already unbalanced, Cahill comes across to block his path so there is further contact, and Jack still manages to lay off the ball whilst being unbalanced. If he’d somehow managed to stay on his feet then he may have injured himself trying to plant his right foot at such an angle. That’s only one person to blame for this and that utter ****** is Friend.
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His leg goes out but for me it's because he's playing the pass, if I thought he'd dived i'd be the first to call him out on it.
https://twitter.com/Lucky13Pierre/status/1167945838561087491
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Cahill confirms contact and implies guilt.
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One small consolation is any pish refereeing performance in future will be known as having a Kevin Friend.
World class ineptitude.
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K Friend has always been, is and will always be a w-nker. Whoever said prem refs are better than championship refs need to re-evaluate and think back 3+ years, because I remember them as sh-t back then and nothings changed.
That said I'm disappointed in the naivity of a so called international player who gets himself sent off on the basis of 2 yellows. Going down to 10 men initially cost the team today. With Hourihane dropped no player has stepped up to deliver dead balls effectively. This needs to be addressed which may mean dropping one of the wingers. There's a lot of work to do not least on the training ground but I'm hopeful that things will improve for us.
Oh by the way f-ck off K Friend you useless
pr-ck!
As for VAR, what is the f-cking point of it?
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We have some good footballers in midfield.
But we lack ‘power’ in there.
That’s the only word I can come up with to describe what I think is missing.
Oh, and trezeguet was a tosser today. He really needs to have a word with himself and cut out the diving for a start.
Physicality?
Absolutely. We look tiny in midfield.
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We have some good footballers in midfield.
But we lack ‘power’ in there.
That’s the only word I can come up with to describe what I think is missing.
Oh, and trezeguet was a tosser today. He really needs to have a word with himself and cut out the diving for a start.
Physicality?
Absolutely. We look tiny in midfield.
Barcelona’s midfield of Xavi, Inesta, Busquets with Messi out wide weren’t exactly giants. Size has little to with it. It’s always talented players used correctly.
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May have been posted already so apologies.
Worth noting that Kevin Friend was the 4th official in the 2018 Play Off Final stood yards from where Fredericks stamped on Grealish.
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i think its worth noting that jack looks to see where ball has gone and immediately starts to get up...hardly the actions of someone diving to win a penalty...IMO
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shit happens to every side in any league and this sort of thing will happen over and over again . The fact is, we were dreadful yesterday and lost.
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May have been posted already so apologies.
Worth noting that Kevin Friend was the 4th official in the 2018 Play Off Final stood yards from where Fredericks stamped on Grealish.
Chris Kavanagh is listed as the 4th official. Unless there was a late change?
Edit: sorry i was looking at the wrong game. Yes you are right it was Mr Friend who stood with a perfect view of Fredricks stamping on Jacks chest. He needs looking into. It would appear to be personal.
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May have been posted already so apologies.
Worth noting that Kevin Friend was the 4th official in the 2018 Play Off Final stood yards from where Fredericks stamped on Grealish.
Chris Kavanagh is listed as the 4th official. Unless there was a late change?
Edit: sorry i was looking at the wrong game. Yes you are right it was Mr Friend who stood with a perfect view of Fredricks stamping on Jacks chest. He needs looking into. It would appear to be personal.
It was actually Jacks leg but don’t let my pedantry stand in the way of giving Kevin Friend every single pelter he deserves.
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Lambert wrote to the head of the refs to directly complain about Friend. We should do so again. That level of incompetence just can’t be tolerated.
At least that prick Friend gets to hear how shit he is at his job on national TV.
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May have been posted already so apologies.
Worth noting that Kevin Friend was the 4th official in the 2018 Play Off Final stood yards from where Fredericks stamped on Grealish.
Chris Kavanagh is listed as the 4th official. Unless there was a late change?
Edit: sorry i was looking at the wrong game. Yes you are right it was Mr Friend who stood with a perfect view of Fredricks stamping on Jacks chest. He needs looking into. It would appear to be personal.
It was actually Jacks leg but don’t let my pedantry stand in the way of giving Kevin Friend every single pelter he deserves.
Yes it was his leg not his chest. I think i need to wake up properly before i start posting.
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Jack got booked so can we ask for a review to get the card rescinded at the very least it will clear Jack of cheating. I did see him call play on a few minutes earlier when the replay clearly showed Jack was fouled.
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Lambert wrote to the head of the refs to directly complain about Friend. We should do so again. That level of incompetence just can’t be tolerated.
At least that prick Friend gets to hear how shit he is at his job on national TV.
It’s not incompetence. He clearly dislikes us and should never officiate for us again
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Friend had already decided the outcome of the situation.
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Trying to be balanced about yesterday's result but having looked at it so many times it was unfair and ultimately cost us a point. My bigger concern - and I am not writing us off - but when I look at the sides that I felt we needed to finish above just 3 of; so Southampton, Brighton Burnley Bournemouth sheffield utd Norwich etc they all appear to play with a lot more purpose and pace than we do. Can you see us coming from 2 down to draw at Chelsea? At the moment I'm not sure I can. I know we will be better when the new players bed in but that can't come soon enough
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Trying to be balanced about yesterday's result but having looked at it so many times it was unfair and ultimately cost us a point. My bigger concern - and I am not writing us off - but when I look at the sides that I felt we needed to finish above just 3 of; so Southampton, Brighton Burnley Bournemouth sheffield utd Norwich etc they all appear to play with a lot more purpose and pace than we do. Can you see us coming from 2 down to draw at Chelsea? At the moment I'm not sure I can. I know we will be better when the new players bed in but that can't come soon enough
It's all about fine margins. Ayew got very lucky with the way the ball fell so kindly for him under pressure from Mings & Grealish. He took it well though to be fair. Had the ref not decided to fuck us over we could of took all the points with a classic smash n grab. Fine margins.
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The thing that struck me watching the replay was Friend wasn’t up with play and his positioning was awful which suggests he’s got a week reffing in the Championship coming up the utterly useless ****.
I find it staggering that anyone thinks Grealish dived, there was quite clearly contact with Cahill, enough to unbalance Grealish further after the push from Zaha and due to his momentum and the contact from Cahill he went down. It really sticks in the throat that with at least 3 or 4 angles on it in the VAR booth they’re saying it’s diving and not a penalty. That’s staggeringly incomprehensible that two officials can view the incident as so.
Clear push by Zaha - not given
Clear foul by Cahill - not given
I think Mark Chapmans tweet really does sum it all up, PGMOL just close ranks and try and justify their decision rather than hold their hands up and admit an official made an error.
The quality of refereeing in this country has drastically reduced over the last 15 years. You’d get the odd game every season where the ref had a stinker and you’d have a whinge but last season I can think of at least 10 games where the ref quite patently wasn’t up to the job and was appalling for both teams. We’ve had two games from 4 just this season where the ref has made major mistakes.
No coincidence that someone on here or Twatter commented that it’s no surprise there were no English refs at the last World Cup.
All of that said, we were bobbins and a point would have been daylight robbery. Dean has got some serious thinking to do about our approach, there is a certain naivety and lack of physicality that is all too apparent in the first few performances. Still it’s going to take time to gel and we’re still settling. Onwards....
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Lambert wrote to the head of the refs to directly complain about Friend. We should do so again. That level of incompetence just can’t be tolerated.
At least that prick Friend gets to hear how shit he is at his job on national TV.
Be interesting if Friend referees a Villa home game don't you think? The club should put in a formal complaint. Friend has history if Lambert complained about him before. Jermaine Jenas was particularly scathing about the tosser on MOTD. Friend deseves some form of punishment.
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Trying to be balanced about yesterday's result but having looked at it so many times it was unfair and ultimately cost us a point. My bigger concern - and I am not writing us off - but when I look at the sides that I felt we needed to finish above just 3 of; so Southampton, Brighton Burnley Bournemouth sheffield utd Norwich etc they all appear to play with a lot more purpose and pace than we do. Can you see us coming from 2 down to draw at Chelsea? At the moment I'm not sure I can. I know we will be better when the new players bed in but that can't come soon enough
It's all about fine margins. Ayew got very lucky with the way the ball fell so kindly for him under pressure from Mings & Grealish. He took it well though to be fair. Had the ref not decided to fuck us over we could of took all the points with a classic smash n grab. Fine margins.
I don't think Ayew was lucky, it was just piss poor defending from first Jack, then Mings.
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As was shown on Match of the day, there is no way Friend had time to get the whistle to his mouth in that time and his arms never left his side, he had that whistle in his mouth ready, he had already decided the outcome of that attack as Grealish was running through and it was going to be we was not scoring whatever way possible.
Look how many cards we were being dished out and free kicks they were getting, yet the other way round Palace were not being punished.
It was complete biased refereeing all game.
He SHOULD NOT be the ref for any single Villa game again this season.
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He should be charged with bringing the game into disrepute and never ref another game!!
I wouldn't give him a parks match.
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Watching MOTD for probably the first time in my life I agree with Jermaine Jenas, to quote him 'One of the worst decisions I have ever seen in the Premier league'. Friend should apologise to the club and the fans, yes I know it ain't gonna happen.
Watching the 1/2 hour highlights on Sky was very concerning, we made Crystal Palace look like Manchester City. Particularly the 1st half, we were totally outplayed, on another day it could have been a heavy defeat.
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I've not seen the game other than the highlights but from what most people have said, it sounds like we were poor. As for our goal, there was absolutely nothing wrong with it and it was a scandalous decision. You could tell Smith was fuming after the game and don't be surprised if he gets a charge of some sort from the FA early next week which would really top the whole charade off.
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I am ok with Smith being charged as that sort of thing always keeps the focus on the Ref's incompetence.
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Probably not a popular opinion, but Grealish wasn't fouled, and he wasn't looking for a penalty either. It was a perfectly good pass, played when he was a bit off balance. The goal should have stood as there was no dive and no penalty. Grealish's head is in the direction of where the ball has gone, and there is absolutely no appeal from him for a penalty. How the hell twathead has missed that, or come to the conclusion that he has is deeply frustrating because the EFL is run by a bunch of complete boys network wankers.
What a complete tool Trezeguet is. Stupid tackle. We need to be far less naive with and without the ball.
not a popular opinion? definitely because you are wrong - FACT. He was fouled 100%. this may not be a popular opinion - you need to go to specsavers and quickly you have serious eyesight problems if you didn't see the fouls. Say hello to Mr Friend when you are there lol.
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I am ok with Smith being charged as that sort of thing always keeps the focus on the Ref's incompetence.
I'm not sure about that although I can see what you're saying. You could also argue that charging the manager just sees the FA as siding with the official.
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There's a video floating round on Twitter showing all our bookings. Other than the second yellow for Tresequet, they are all ridiculously over the top, especially Guilbert's.
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.Probably not a popular opinion, but Grealish wasn't fouled, and he wasn't looking for a penalty either. It was a perfectly good pass, played when he was a bit off balance. The goal should have stood as there was no dive and no penalty. Grealish's head is in the direction of where the ball has gone, and there is absolutely no appeal from him for a penalty. How the hell twathead has missed that, or come to the conclusion that he has is deeply frustrating because the EFL is run by a bunch of complete boys network wankers.
What a complete tool Trezeguet is. Stupid tackle. We need to be far less naive with and without the ball.
not a popular opinion? definitely because you are wrong - FACT. He was fouled 100%. this may not be a popular opinion - you need to go to specsavers and quickly you have serious eyesight problems if you didn't see the fouls. Say hello to Mr Friend when you are there lol.
Theres no doubt in my mind that Grealish was fouled but outside the box so no pen. But he wasn't asking for a foul. He stumbled forward after being tripped but managed to poke the ball to Lansbury who put it away superbly a fact that had bern forgotten. Friend robbed him of his moment of glory too. A decent referee would of seen the foul and allowed advantage to see how it panned out. But he isn't a decent ref. He is a petty,incompetent,myopic twunt.
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Wasn't Friend the ref who was taken off a Spurs match when Leicester were going for the title? Even his bosses don't trust him to be impartial.
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Even Mark Halsey, who was a comfortable bedfellow with terrible decisions involving Villa, said it was an awful decision.
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Thought I would see what they were saying on the BBC site but apparently it's not one of the top ten or so football stories we need to hear about. Reminds us how unimportant to the wider world we have become. But we ARE on the way back
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Barcelona’s midfield of Xavi, Inesta, Busquets with Messi out wide weren’t exactly giants. Size has little to with it. It’s always talented players used correctly.
It's a fair point but that was an exceptional midfield and not the norm. I don't really expect Villa to be able to field players of that calibre. Yet.
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Watching MOTD for probably the first time in my life I agree with Jermaine Jenas, to quote him 'One of the worst decisions I have ever seen in the Premier league'. Friend should apologise to the club and the fans, yes I know it ain't gonna happen.
Watching the 1/2 hour highlights on Sky was very concerning, we made Crystal Palace look like Manchester City. Particularly the 1st half, we were totally outplayed, on another day it could have been a heavy defeat.
We weren't great, but I think totally outplayed is a bit much. Though I'd had far too much to drink before kickoff and seemed to just be in a bad mood at our lack of attacking intent. So you could well be right, mate!
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Managed to find the Villa piece and comments and wish I hadn't. Grealish cheat threw himself forward fans scum make Blues look saints. The haters are out in force!
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Oh don't ever go to the BBC's Have Your Say section, it's utterly worthless, full of tedious name calling and trolls. I stopped looking at all those below the line features a long time ago, they just make me despair at the state of humanity.
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Managed to find the Villa piece and comments and wish I hadn't. Grealish cheat threw himself forward fans scum make Blues look saints. The haters are out in force!
Fuck em all mate. Something of a controversial note will happen in today's games and then it'll probably be England fans causing trouble against Kosovo, etc etc. We're just flavour of the hour.
Blues fans have got very little to enjoy in life, so they hone in on us. Wolves fans should be having the time of their lives regarding their own team, yet hone in on us, too. They'll be on the receiving end of misfortune as the season progresses, though I heavily doubt we'll focus on them as much as they focus on us.
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We have some good footballers in midfield.
But we lack ‘power’ in there.
That’s the only word I can come up with to describe what I think is missing.
Oh, and trezeguet was a tosser today. He really needs to have a word with himself and cut out the diving for a start.
Physicality?
Absolutely. We look tiny in midfield.
I think we need both Luiz AND Makamba in midfield. We are too easily pushed aside.
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We have some good footballers in midfield.
But we lack ‘power’ in there.
That’s the only word I can come up with to describe what I think is missing.
Oh, and trezeguet was a tosser today. He really needs to have a word with himself and cut out the diving for a start.
Physicality?
Absolutely. We look tiny in midfield.
I think we need both Luiz AND Nakamba in midfield. We are too easily pushed aside.
Maybe. As a lot of us were saying the other week, Luiz pushed further forward and Grealish pushed wide.
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I like what i've seen of Jota so far but maybe away from home it would be best to leave him out for an extra midfielder like Hourihane.
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Jota looks like a one on one off player.
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Barcelona’s midfield of Xavi, Inesta, Busquets with Messi out wide weren’t exactly giants. Size has little to with it. It’s always talented players used correctly.
It's a fair point but that was an exceptional midfield and not the norm. I don't really expect Villa to be able to field players of that calibre. Yet.
The best midfield of all time is often cited as a reason for physicality not being required. Unfortunately our players are nowhere near that standard and it can't be a coincidence that every team we've faced so far have big, powerful athletes in the middle of the park.
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We need to Kienan in the team, to help us get our players on the ball further up the pitch.
He will be a star for us, I'm utterly convinced of it.
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On reflection im finishing my say with this. It took a combination of a fortunate bounce for Ayew and a diabolical refereeing decision/performance to beat us. Palace won at Man Utd last week and currently sit 4th in the Premier league. So lets not get all doom and gloom just yet. Theres still a lot of positives. Come mid December we will have a better idea of where we're at. Come January they can tweak the squad where it's needed. UTV
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On reflection im finishing my say with this. It took a combination of a fortunate bounce for Ayew and a diabolical refereeing decision/performance to beat us. Palace won at Man Utd last week and currently sit 4th in the Premier league. So lets not get all doom and gloom just yet. Theres still a lot of positives. Come mid December we will have a better idea of where we're at. Come January they can tweak the squad where it's needed. UTV
I agree with this. Also, they have one of the best players in the league in Zaha.
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The 'Ban Kevin Friend' petition is picking up speed. Please sign and tell your friends :)
https://www.change.org/p/football-fans-ban-kevin-friend-from-refereeing-premier-league-games?recruited_by_id=b1dcb990-cc0b-11e9-a436-3739f2073faa&share_bandit_exp=initial-17591627-en-GB&share_bandit_var=v1
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Sorry Allan but that just makes us look small time.
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We need to Kienan in the team, to help us get our players on the ball further up the pitch.
He will be a star for us, I'm utterly convinced of it.
Wesley had a bad game and Keinan did well when he came on. He's fast making himself a real option as opposed to a kid playing understudy.
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Sorry Allan but that just makes us look small time.
Not started by us, that I'm aware of, and is the culmination of mistakes this man has made in refereeing over the last 4 years. Look up the fan reaction to his incompetence at Sunderland, Manyoo and others.
Plus - if we join in at least we begin to show the PGMOL and PL that the fans will not put up with this gross lack of fairness. Something most people are in favour of.
Plus - who exazctly will think us 'small time'? Who?
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Sorry Allan but that just makes us look small time.
Not started by us, that I'm aware of, and is the culmination of mistakes this man has made in refereeing over the last 4 years. Look up the fan reaction to his incompetence at Sunderland, Manyoo and others.
Plus - if we join in at least we begin to show the PGMOL and PL that the fans will not put up with this gross lack of fairness. Something most people are in favour of.
Plus - who exazctly will think us 'small time'? Who?
Probably #levelhampton levellers.
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I'm not one for slagging off refs each and every game but, Friend was a joke yesterday.
Jack was fouled (just outside the area) so, at the very least he should have blown for a free-kick. Jack is then off balance and stumbles towards Cahill, where they clash. Neither Cahill or Jack are at fault for that.
Just one thing though. I wish Jack wouldn't do that little exaggerated arc of his back when he's about to hit the ground. It's unnecessary, and looks like he's feigning a foul, even when he's not.
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We did not lost the game because of a bad referee or VAR (though agreed they were both awful).
We lost the game because we picked the wrong line up. Jota is a back up for Grealish because playing them both leaves us short in terms doing the "hard yards" in midfield. Before worrying about goals, one has to control midfield especially if Dean wants to play it out the back as he suggests. We must put Hourihane or Marvelous alongside Luiz, push Jack further forward (he is dropping way too deep when we are losing the midfield battle), and then trust that he, McGinn, the two FB, and Wes can supply the goals.
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We, literally, lost the game because of the referee.
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We, literally, lost the game because of the referee.
Yes, we literally lost the game because of a poor decision.
I think we can be overly self-critical. Teams win or draw games all the time that they don’t deserve to get points from. It is frequently said that successful teams can win even when they’re not playing well, and that was certainly a characteristic of our 12 game winning run last season.
Even the best teams have off-days (well maybe apart from Man City and Liverpool). We didn’t play well yesterday, by all accounts, but should have drawn the game. Frankly, I’d be surprised if we were dominating any of the teams we have played so far given the complete overhaul that we necessary over the summer. We should be on at least 4 points though.
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The thing I totally don’t get is why you would blow the whistle for a dive? I’ve never seen it, it’s usually ‘no foul - play on’.
Simulation is not a free kick offence so there was no reason for the whistle to be blown. I’ve even gone and looked it up because I am looking at that situation and thinking ‘what am I missing here?’ Every time in the past where I’ve seen a player, ours or anyone else’s, go down & the ref doesn’t think it was a foul they have waved ‘play on’ not blown the whistle.
The booking, if needed, can take place in the next break in play.
The fact that he was so quick to blow his whistle here tells me he was waiting for his opportunity to book him.
The correct outcome even if Jack did dive, is that we equalise and it stands, but Jack is booked for simulation.
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Thanks for checking that Amfy. I was beginning to think I was going mad.
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We lost the game because of the referee.
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When i saw who the referee was about 2 30 pm yesterday my heart sank it really did .I did not think it was possible to dislike a referee in control of one of our matches as much as i did Phil Dowd and Mark Halsey . I was wrong,this idiot Friend has previous in several of our previous games. He clearly is biased against Villa .Smith or the club in general should make a official complaint about him as I understand Lambert did in the past .Hopefully we will never see the idiot again
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There’s a monitor on the touchline at every PL game, however Mike Riley in his infinite wisdom doesn’t want referees to use them, which in my opinion makes the whole thing a complete farce. Add to this Phillip Oliver being sat at Stockely Park at VAR control trying to cover two games at the same time and you have complete chaos.
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The thing I totally don’t get is why you would blow the whistle for a dive? I’ve never seen it, it’s usually ‘no foul - play on’.
Simulation is not a free kick offence so there was no reason for the whistle to be blown. I’ve even gone and looked it up because I am looking at that situation and thinking ‘what am I missing here?’ Every time in the past where I’ve seen a player, ours or anyone else’s, go down & the ref doesn’t think it was a foul they have waved ‘play on’ not blown the whistle.
The booking, if needed, can take place in the next break in play.
The fact that he was so quick to blow his whistle here tells me he was waiting for his opportunity to book him.
The correct outcome even if Jack did dive, is that we equalise and it stands, but Jack is booked for simulation.
Interesting point that. The FA are relying on that the whistle was blown. Would be interesting to hear their response on why it was blown.
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I'm sure i've seen refs whistle for dives before and give the opposition a free kick.
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We did not lost the game because of a bad referee or VAR (though agreed they were both awful).
We lost the game because we picked the wrong line up. Jota is a back up for Grealish because playing them both leaves us short in terms doing the "hard yards" in midfield. Before worrying about goals, one has to control midfield especially if Dean wants to play it out the back as he suggests. We must put Hourihane or Marvelous alongside Luiz, push Jack further forward (he is dropping way too deep when we are losing the midfield battle), and then trust that he, McGinn, the two FB, and Wes can supply the goals.
Agree. And away from home drop one of the wingers to strengthen the midfield. Whether David and Wesley can play together in Homes games remains to be seen, but the two wingers system, or more like the players who play that system aren’t doing enough. Neither Jota, Trez or Anwar are offering enough so far. Maybe Lansbury could do a job, particularly away when we need to be more solid
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The thing I totally don’t get is why you would blow the whistle for a dive? I’ve never seen it, it’s usually ‘no foul - play on’.
Simulation is not a free kick offence so there was no reason for the whistle to be blown. I’ve even gone and looked it up because I am looking at that situation and thinking ‘what am I missing here?’ Every time in the past where I’ve seen a player, ours or anyone else’s, go down & the ref doesn’t think it was a foul they have waved ‘play on’ not blown the whistle.
The booking, if needed, can take place in the next break in play.
The fact that he was so quick to blow his whistle here tells me he was waiting for his opportunity to book him.
The correct outcome even if Jack did dive, is that we equalise and it stands, but Jack is booked for simulation.
Interesting point that. The FA are relying on that the whistle was blown. Would be interesting to hear their response on why it was blown.
Don’t hold your breath but Maidestone is right, there was no reason to blow.
It’s cheating
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We, literally, lost the game because of the referee.
In the end yes. But we played so poorly overall that it shouldn’t have even mattered. Palace should have been 3 up at least.
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If you watch replays if you look at Cahill instead of Jack then either Cahill is also diving or there was contact. Cahill is the thing that for me removes any doubt it was a dive.
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We, literally, lost the game because of the referee.
In the end yes. But we played so poorly overall that it shouldn’t have even mattered. Palace should have been 3 up at least.
I didn’t see the game and can only go by what I’ve read on here and what other reports I’ve read and listened to. Chris Kamara who was the sky pundit yesterday said this morning on Goals on Sunday that we played well. So yes, we can at times be too critical of ourselves at times.
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We, literally, lost the game because of the referee.
In the end yes. But we played so poorly overall that it shouldn’t have even mattered. Palace should have been 3 up at least.
I didn’t see the game and can only go by what I’ve read on here and what other reports I’ve read and listened to. Chris Kamara who was the sky pundit yesterday said this morning on Goals on Sunday that we played well. So yes, we can at times be too critical of ourselves at times.
I think we are our harshest critics but that said yesterday at one point was just wave after wave of Palace attacks especially down their right. Crosses that never got converted. I think they had over 20 shots on goal. I also think we became less aggressive once the yellow cards were dealt out in most cases unfairly. But we never imposed ourselves in midfield and we kept launching these meaningless cross field passes to the wingers which kept being intercepted. It was very frustrating and I don’t agree at all with Kamara that we played well. I do agree with his assessment of us getting fucked over at the end mind you.
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People are assuming that Palace are crap. They’re no mugs and Woy has them well organised. That said these are the type of places we need to pick up the odd win or draw.
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One thing we really have to work on is keeping the ball when we are under the cosh. Too often we smash it back up the pitch, or send long balls out, or have the ball for two minutes and instead of making the opposition work and letting our defence rest we smash a long effort over the bar from outside the area and within seconds we are under the cosh again.
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People are assuming that Palace are crap. They’re no mugs and Woy has them well organised. That said these are the type of places we need to pick up the odd win or draw.
We would have done but for one of the worst refereeing decisions we'll see this year.
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Palace should have had 3? Really? McCarthy and his curling shot apart, Heaton hasn't really had too much to do. They slung more balls into the box, especially following the sending off, but they were hardly impressive themselves.
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Having had time to reflect on the game and then the TV highlights I have come to the conclusion that although we didn't outlay palace we were robbed of a point by either an incompetent referee or a cheat of a referee. As for VAR ,the best thing the F.A.can done now is to stick it up their arse as it is a complete and utter waste of time.
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I think it's very easy to focus on the disallowed goal and forget just how poor the ref was until that point. The bookings for Luiz, Trez and Fred were the only fouls we committed in that 7-8 minute period and none of them was a clear yellow, especially given some of the challenges he'd let go until that point. As I said, they got a yellow for their 11 foul, we had trez given his 2nd yellow, to make our fifth, for our 11th foul and if you just watch all of the fouls without context of which were given cards there's no chance you given us 5 cards to 1 for them. All the bookings in the first half were harsh and the only one that could be justified as totting up was Guilbert. As for Trez's 2nd I fail to see how that was different from 3-4 other fouls during the game that were just free kicks.
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I thought both yellows for Trez were bookings. Not saying the ref wasn't shite but those were 2 of the few things I think he got right.
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It really does not matter whether palace should/could have been 3 or 4 up, the fact is they were not and we had a legitimate goal scrubbed .
Some people said up thread we always hear how good teams play badly but hang on for the points,I don't care that we did not play great I do care that we lost a point due to a shit ref
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We, literally, lost the game because of the referee.
In the end yes. But we played so poorly overall that it shouldn’t have even mattered. Palace should have been 3 up at least.
Might've been just me but I really don't think Palace threatened that much before we went down to 10 men. They had McArthur chance that went over and a free kick Heaton easily pushed around the post but apart from that that was it unless I've forgotten anything obvious.
After the red they had 5-6 corners and yes the goal felt a matter of time but generally to me in games between two similar teams e.g. not playing Liverpool or Man. City the home team is generally the ones expected to get the most shots and possession? We did that v Bournemouth anyway with 7 shots on target.
Palace had 5 shots on target. I think as an away team you'd be pretty happy with that over 95 minutes particularly as usually 2-3 shots are just like backpasses straight at the keeper. Would be very unlucky if say 3 or 4 goals resulted from that.
More disappointing was the lack of any serious attacking threat from us. We don't really look that capable of quick counter attacks away from home so think it's going to be a struggle to score much on the road until we get an easier run of away games from January ownwards.
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I'm sure i've seen refs whistle for dives before and give the opposition a free kick.
Yep, you have to stop play to actually caution players. Plenty of times ref has whistled, fans start cheering as they think penalty is going to be awarded and then ref gestures the other way and books player so it does happen a fair bit.
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I thought both yellows for Trez were bookings. Not saying the ref wasn't shite but those were 2 of the few things I think he got right.
I think both could be given as yellow but that there were plenty of examples in the game of similar tackles that weren't given, that was my point. I think the ref decided 2/3 of our players were divers before kickoff and wasn't planning on giving them anything and wanted to get them booked as soon as he could.
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People are assuming that Palace are crap. They’re no mugs and Woy has them well organised. That said these are the type of places we need to pick up the odd win or draw.
I'm assuming a "commentator's fact" is true, but according to the guy on my stream yesterday only Liverpool and Man City have picked up more points than Palace in 2019, in which case crap they ain't.
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Crystal Palace are a low scoring but defensively tight team. I don't think 1-0 either way was a shock scoreline. You get 10 1 goal wins in the premier league and you stay up, simple as that. They're well drilled as you'd expect from a Hodgson team.
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Palace are a great away side as they break with pace and numbers, it's why they scored 3 away to Arsenal, Man City and Liverpool last season and have a better away record record than home record. They tend to struggle more to score at home. They create a fair bit at home but miss so many chances, I think a lot of that is that they can't find a consistent striker since Benteke's first season.
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I thought both yellows for Trez were bookings. Not saying the ref wasn't shite but those were 2 of the few things I think he got right.
I think both could be given as yellow but that there were plenty of examples in the game of similar tackles that weren't given, that was my point. I think the ref decided 2/3 of our players were divers before kickoff and wasn't planning on giving them anything and wanted to get them booked as soon as he could.
This is exactly what I think. It's the worst kind of shit refereeing to go into the game with preconceived ideas. The powers that be covering up for him and no-one acknowledging what a shit decision it was, coming as it did after an already abject refereeing display , is just as bad. Refs have been binned from PL before when their performance hasn't even been that shit.
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I thought both yellows for Trez were bookings. Not saying the ref wasn't shite but those were 2 of the few things I think he got right.
That was my take too. Definitely the most obvious yellows of the game.
I agree we need to shore up our defence away from home - the wide players have not been good enough either defensively or going forward.
On a non playing level I would make a song and dance about bringing in a recently retired referee to advise and instruct us over the next fortnight. A way of showing we take this seriously and we are doing our best to adapt our play to referees’ interpretation of the laws of the game.
By the way, if you can see a straight line between the ease with which Friend handed out cards so easily in the first half and the way in which Billings (?) for Bournemouth went on a one man fouling campaign 2 weeks ago with only one yellow then you are a better man than me.
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I don't want to see Grealish around our own penalty box his strength is putting defenders under pressure. Do not understand why DS can't see this if we need to play an extra midfielder and drop one of the wingers then do it, Jack proved the point in the last minute when we should have equalised if not for the cheating git in charge.
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The bottom line from Saturday is that we huffed and puffed and didn't really deserve anything result wise. Not made easier by the referee who seemed to have a field day with his cards.
i think the goal should have stood and why did the ref blow up if he was not going to give a penalty?
In hindsight a red card was always on the books come half time and Deano himself should have made substitutions to cover the probability.
Not our best day but we gave 110% so no calling off me.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDXpO3ZXoAEECpi?format=jpg&name=900x900)
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I missed the second half but listened to the first in the car, and said that we need to hold out till half time to regroup, and it was obvious we were going to have a player sent off the way Friend was dishing out the bookings...almost as if he wanted to issue a red card and was edging his bets. Still fucking fuming. ******.
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That Ref is definitely not our Friend he cost us a point.
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Wasn't he the VAR official for our Spuds away game? The one who could not see Winks pulling McGinn back in the second half?
I think the main lessons from the first 4 games are:
- there are no easy games: B'mouth and CP have proved that point
- we need to toughen up a little: I'd like to see Marvelous and Luiz as two holding MF
- we need to look after the ball a whole lot better than we currently do
- this is not a time to panic!
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Re the petition we are privileged in this country to have the right of protest. Why not use it. If anyone thinks it's small time, fuck them. It's not just Villa fans, Friend's latest shambles has been almost universally condemned across the board from fans of other teams to broadcasters, journalists, former players and former referees.
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Re the petition we are privileged in this country to have the right of protest. Why not use it. If anyone thinks it's small time, fuck them. It's not just Villa fans, Friend's latest shambles has been almost universally condemned across the board from fans of other teams to broadcasters, journalists, former players and former referees.
Agreed, the more pressure that’s put on. The cheating c**** the better.
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Just watched the extended highlights again on YouTube. The level of incompetence from Kevin Friend is astounding. Seriously there should be some sort of investigation into his performance. The only word I can come up with is corrupt.
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Unfortunately the FA is too preoccupied with protecting its own reputation and trying to convince everyone it is infallible rather than engaging with the fans who are effectively its customers and being open and transparent.
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The ref and Trez cost us a point.
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In fairness our defending for their goal was awful.
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Jack in Garth Crooks' team of the week, apparently as a vehicle for another justified dig at incompetent halfwit Friend. Gratifying to see it getting proper airtime. The more I see it the more I think it's not just a run of the mill ref error. It's genuinely so bad as to appear corrupt. Not that I think it is but the fact that one could make the argument says it all:
Jack Grealish: I don't normally select players on the losing side but on this occasion I must make an exception. Jack Grealish not only gave a captain's performance against Crystal Palace but was robbed of the part he played in providing Villa with what would have been an impressive and justified equaliser.
Kevin Friend's shocking decision to disallow Henri Lansbury's 96th-minute goal after Grealish's brilliant run ranks among the worst decisions I've seen in years. What Friend didn't see (and I did) was Grealish get bumped by Wilfried Zaha as he entered the box, which propelled Grealish to the ground. You actually see Zaha, with hand raised, appeal to the referee to say no penalty. This was truly an outrageous decision.
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I agree, I think (hope) that this is the straw that breaks the camels back where shite referees are concerned such has been the universal condemnation from the pundits.
If Friend has any decency he’ll be on the phone to Dean Smith this morning to apologise and admit his error.
He needs to be given an extended break. I’m still fecking seething tbh.
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I have watched from every conceivable angle and can safely say
The ref is a complete fuckpig of a cheat
Oh and the full 11 mins highlights showed us in a much better light than the MOTD offering - no way did we deserve to lose that game
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Hmm I was there, and to be honest I think anywhere between 0-0, 1-0, 1-1, and 0-1 was on the cards. It was very tight and I don't think many would have argued with any of those scores.
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While we were literally robbed, I think it would have been metaphorical daylight robbery if we'd got anything out of that game, we were clearly second best. I think that was our first proper effort on goal all game.
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While we were literally robbed, I think it would have been metaphorical daylight robbery if we'd got anything out of that game, we were clearly second best. I think that was our first proper effort on goal all game.
We weren’t literally robbed, applying the definition in s.8 Theft Act 1968.
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Hmm I was there, and to be honest I think anywhere between 0-0, 1-0, 1-1, and 0-1 was on the cards. It was very tight and I don't think many would have argued with any of those scores.
I was there too and that's how I saw it. When my hands weren't over my eyes.
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Oh and the full 11 mins highlights showed us in a much better light than the MOTD offering - no way did we deserve to lose that game
You sure ? i'd love to see the world through your glasses if you think we deserved anything from our performance on Saturday.
We were wretched.
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It is hard to compete when one side is afraid to challenge for the ball or make any tackles for fear of being yellow or red carded, whilst the other side can foul without any risk of being carded. 1-1 would have been a fair result given that we had to play so submissively.
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We scored a perfectly good goal in a game with very few real chances. While we didnt play well, we deserved a point that the quality of Grealish ripping Palace open provided. We didnt get that point because of the referee and perhaps the worst decision I've seen.
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I don’t think we were that bad. Started both halves well, then neutralised by a team that’s extremely good at neutralising other teams.
Hodgson is a very shrewd manager. As others have said it was a tight game of the sort where a card happy ref can tip it one way. We came through that, and the red card, and a dodgy game for Mings, and we should by all rights have still come away with a hard won point.
I don’t think we need to feel too bad about the performance.
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Explains a lot, the big Bristol bottom burp.
Always had that place down as one of the better parts of the country, but the weird infatuation from Brizzle fans almost eclipses the B-lose. A pointless existence. A big club signed their top forward once. So what? They've got Nathan Bakenbauer out of us for practically a song.
What is is about the BCFC calling card. The hallmark of obsession. Or just plain shiteness.
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While we were literally robbed, I think it would have been metaphorical daylight robbery if we'd got anything out of that game, we were clearly second best. I think that was our first proper effort on goal all game.
We weren’t literally robbed, applying the definition in s.8 Theft Act 1968.
Section 8 was exactly my first thought at the final whistle.
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I am still angry by the ref’s decision as Lansbury’s goal would have been a massive tonic - first away point, last minute equaliser and a boost before the break.
But Palace had far more territory, possession and dangerous positions than we did - they must have had 10 corners too which we weren’t brilliant at defending cleanly. I cannot think of a genuine chance we had other than the disallowed goal. I think they should have won probably 2-0. Which is why that disallowed goal is so galling - an undeserved point is a massive morale booster.
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I am still angry by the ref’s decision as Lansbury’s goal would have been a massive tonic - first away point, last minute equaliser and a boost before the break.
But Palace had far more territory, possession and dangerous positions than we did - they must have had 10 corners too which we weren’t brilliant at defending cleanly. I cannot think of a genuine chance we had other than the disallowed goal. I think they should have won probably 2-0. Which is why that disallowed goal is so galling - an undeserved point is a massive morale booster.
Yep. Have we had more than ten corners all season?
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I am still angry by the ref’s decision as Lansbury’s goal would have been a massive tonic - first away point, last minute equaliser and a boost before the break.
But Palace had far more territory, possession and dangerous positions than we did - they must have had 10 corners too which we weren’t brilliant at defending cleanly. I cannot think of a genuine chance we had other than the disallowed goal. I think they should have won probably 2-0. Which is why that disallowed goal is so galling - an undeserved point is a massive morale booster.
Yep. Have we had more than ten corners all season?
I know we had none at Spurs. I recall a few shit ones v Bournemouth though
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0 v Spurs
10 v Bournemouth
0 v Everton
2 v Palace
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Since Feb only Liverpool and Man City have won more points than Palace.
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Is that "just" PL? We won a fair few.
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Yep.
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On the corners thing, one thing I noticed about Jota is that he's not very strong, nor very streetwise. When he was surrounded near the corner v Everton a few times, he either needed to barge past or whack it off an Evertonian shin and out for a corner. On at least 3 occasions I reckon he did neither.
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Palace are set up to counter-attack, even at home. 4-3-3 is not the best way to approach this unless you are Chelsea or Citeh.
Alan Hansen voice: "2 banks of 4, no way through".
I am in in 4-2-3-1 camp in these situations. Then again, I am getting on in years.
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Palace are set up to counter-attack, even at home. 4-3-3 is not the best way to approach this unless you are Chelsea or Citeh.
Alan Hansen voice: "2 banks of 4, no way through".
I am in in 4-2-3-1 camp in these situations. Then again, I am getting on in years.
I'm an extremely youthful 41 and I agree.
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I agree as well, I think away from home we could benefit from having Jack play as one of the wide players and bring Nakamba, Hourihane or even Konsa/Engels into the midfield alongside Luiz.
Long term I think Smith wants to do that more often but you really need Targett and Guilbert settled into the team for it to work because they take a lot of the responsibility to stop us getting too narrow.
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I am in in 4-2-3-1 camp in these situations. Then again, I am getting on in years.
I'll buy that, too.
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While we were literally robbed, I think it would have been metaphorical daylight robbery if we'd got anything out of that game, we were clearly second best. I think that was our first proper effort on goal all game.
We weren’t literally robbed, applying the definition in s.8 Theft Act 1968.
We weren’t literally anything.
Why has this Americanism kept onto this site quite literally :-[
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Nope, correct usage, literally has two definitions now in the OED.
English language evolves, it's why we have new fangled words like autumn instead of fall.
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I'm not happy with the new definition of literally. I'm happy with the language evolving but we shouldn't just allow idiots like Charlie Nicholas to decide the direction of travel. I don't particularly think of misuse of "literally" as an Americanism, mind. That said, they do confuse me when they say "I could care less" when they mean the opposite.
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Darren Bent is literally on fire, according to Jamie Redknapp.
Rosie the dog is literally the brains of the operation in the Redknapp family.
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I thought this was a joke but incredibly it’s true. God that makes me angry.
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I never joke about definitions.
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So literally is the new nonplussed, meaning two opposite things just because Americans couldn’t get their heads around it.
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Stop blaming Americans. We bastardise our own language and for the better. It's an organic and constantly evolving thing.
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Well my tongue was in my cheek there.
But surely it isn’t about the evolution of language to give a word a new meaning that is the EXACT OPPOSITE of its actual meaning, just because people (of all nationalities) use it WRONGLY.
That way anarchy lies.
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Don't get me started on my 'favourite' American classic..."My bad" !
I hope Bad English doesn't venture into this thread. He'll have an aneurysm.
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Don't get me started on my 'favourite' American classic..."My bad" !
I hope Bad English doesn't venture into this thread. He'll have an aneurysm.
Not as bad as "can i get" when people are ordering stuff at a counter. Boils my piss that does.
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Well my tongue was in my cheek there.
But surely it isn’t about the evolution of language to give a word a new meaning that is the EXACT OPPOSITE of its actual meaning, just because people (of all nationalities) use it WRONGLY.
That way anarchy lies.
We use it all the while, which is kinda cool.
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Don't get me started on my 'favourite' American classic..."My bad" !
I hope Bad English doesn't venture into this thread. He'll have an aneurysm.
Not as bad as "can i get" when people are ordering stuff at a counter. Boils my piss that does.
My own piss-boiler is the unnecessary American use of: ' off of' as in e.g. "Get off of my fucking laptop!" instead of: "Get off my fucking laptop!"
Sorry, that should be: "Get orf my fucking laptop!"
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Palace are set up to counter-attack, even at home. 4-3-3 is not the best way to approach this unless you are Chelsea or Citeh.
Alan Hansen voice: "2 banks of 4, no way through".
I am in in 4-2-3-1 camp in these situations. Then again, I am getting on in years.
I'm an extremely youthful 41 and I agree.
I’m a not so youthful 57 and it got me sold
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I’ve not seen it, (the grealish incident) so have nothing to offer, other than shit happens. Let’s move on to the next match. Maybe we should’ve got a point, maybe not. Let’s not start pissing our pants over it, no much how hard we protest will change things with the dodgy FA.
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Yep. Every time this team has been wronged in the past they’ve responded with a winning streak (Grealish punch = 10 game run, Leeds fiasco = playoff win).
If that lost point galvanises the team and reinforces a siege mentality then it’s worth more than a point.
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Don't get me started on my 'favourite' American classic..."My bad" !
I hope Bad English doesn't venture into this thread. He'll have an aneurysm.
Not as bad as "can i get" when people are ordering stuff at a counter. Boils my piss that does.
More than, "I'll do the"...
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Don't get me started on my 'favourite' American classic..."My bad" !
I hope Bad English doesn't venture into this thread. He'll have an aneurysm.
Not as bad as "can i get" when people are ordering stuff at a counter. Boils my piss that does.
I realised last week that you can legitimately say ‘Can I get a latte?’ in Weatherspoons because you actually do have to get it yourself.
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There's so much wrong with that.