Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle on February 03, 2015, 03:18:10 PM
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Put this on Off Topic but its probably more valid here.
http://www.birminghampost.co.uk/news/local-news/sir-doug-ellis-donates-1-8550051 (http://www.birminghampost.co.uk/news/local-news/sir-doug-ellis-donates-1-8550051)
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Well done Doug !
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Well done Herbert, at least you are spending some of the millions you made out of the Villa on worthy causes.
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Does a lot of work for chirridy.
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Class Doug.
(Is that the infamous Rose Garden in the background).
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well done, brilliant
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Haven't read the link but is £1m towards the Lambert Out group?
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http://monash-sport-lifestyle.blogspot.ie/2014/12/the-doug-ellis-swimming-pool-is.html
https://www.dougellissportscentre.com/bcu_city_north/News
http://www.redbrick.me/news/doug-ellis-opens-university-library/
Now there's a surprise Doug Ellis having his name put on something, again.
I am glad something worthwhile is being done with the money, but am i the only one who thinks his egomaniac tendencies in all this is a bit sickening, and a little crass.
Doug, you don't need to keep "sponsoring" everything to try and be popular.
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http://monash-sport-lifestyle.blogspot.ie/2014/12/the-doug-ellis-swimming-pool-is.html
https://www.dougellissportscentre.com/bcu_city_north/News
http://www.redbrick.me/news/doug-ellis-opens-university-library/
Now there's a surprise Doug Ellis having his name put on something, again.
I am glad something worthwhile is being done with the money, but am i the only one who thinks his egomaniac tendencies in all this is a bit sickening, and a little crass.
Doug, you don't need to keep "sponsoring" everything to try and be popular.
Some people might see you as being 'a little crass' I think.
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Now there's a surprise Doug Ellis having his name put on something, again.
I am glad something worthwhile is being done with the money, but am i the only one who thinks his egomaniac tendencies in all this is a bit sickening, and a little crass.
Doug, you don't need to keep "sponsoring" everything to try and be popular.
Fair play to him.
If I had suddenly got 30 million drop in my lap I would have donated the lot to worthwhile causes like breweries and whore houses and missed out on the Knighthood.
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Didn't he also donate a load of dosh to Aston University a while back?
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Didn't he also donate a load of dosh to Aston University a while back?
He put some money into the Sir Doug Ellis Woodcock Sports Centre at the University.
I've yet to find out what happens in woodcock sports, but I'm sure its very enjoyable.
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The more we have Lerner the more ai appreciate Doug. Much respect.
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Now there's a surprise Doug Ellis having his name put on something, again.
I am glad something worthwhile is being done with the money, but am i the only one who thinks his egomaniac tendencies in all this is a bit sickening, and a little crass.
Doug, you don't need to keep "sponsoring" everything to try and be popular.
Fair play to him.
If I had suddenly got 30 million drop in my lap I would have donated the lot to worthwhile causes like breweries and whore houses and missed out on the Knighthood.
Yeah but you'd still have letters after your name.
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It should be remembered Doug was slated when he owned the club ..........
Yes he ran it as a business but still made money available to the managers .......
Would we not be in a better position today if he was still at the helm?
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It should be remembered Doug was slated when he owned the club ..........
Yes he ran it as a business but still made money available to the managers .......
Would we not be in a better position today if he was still at the helm?
Yes.
Lambert would of been sacked after the 0-8
Mcleish would never have been appointed.
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http://monash-sport-lifestyle.blogspot.ie/2014/12/the-doug-ellis-swimming-pool-is.html
https://www.dougellissportscentre.com/bcu_city_north/News
http://www.redbrick.me/news/doug-ellis-opens-university-library/
Now there's a surprise Doug Ellis having his name put on something, again.
I am glad something worthwhile is being done with the money, but am i the only one who thinks his egomaniac tendencies in all this is a bit sickening, and a little crass.
Doug, you don't need to keep "sponsoring" everything to try and be popular.
Some people might see you as being 'a little crass' I think.
Fine. I offered my opinion on the subject. I couldn't care less what your opinion of me is, it's also not relevant to the thread.
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When I first saw the title of this thread I thought doug had contributed £1m to Lamberts compensation package.
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Good on him.
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The more we have Lerner the more ai appreciate Doug. Much respect.
Too right. At least Ellis managed to get us relegated properly.
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The more we have Lerner the more ai appreciate Doug. Much respect.
Too right. At least Ellis managed to get us relegated properly.
5 years after taking over with a European Cup Winning side.
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But fair play to him for this I suppose.
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http://monash-sport-lifestyle.blogspot.ie/2014/12/the-doug-ellis-swimming-pool-is.html
https://www.dougellissportscentre.com/bcu_city_north/News
http://www.redbrick.me/news/doug-ellis-opens-university-library/
am i the only one who thinks his egomaniac tendencies in all this is a bit sickening, and a little crass.
Hopefully yes.
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The more we have Lerner the more ai appreciate Doug. Much respect.
I think there's a lot of truth in this.
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It should be remembered Doug was slated when he owned the club ..........
Yes he ran it as a business but still made money available to the managers .......
Would we not be in a better position today if he was still at the helm?
I'd have Doug any day over the charlatan we have in charge now.
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The more we have Lerner the more ai appreciate Doug. Much respect.
Too right. At least Ellis managed to get us relegated properly.
Say what you like about him but he has always had Villa's interests at heart. A true football man. Can we say the same about Lerner?
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There is very little reason for it, but I just love the old git.
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A true football man. Can we say the same about Lerner?
Lerner definitely didn't invent the bicycle kick.
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A true football man. Can we say the same about Lerner?
True, Lerner's only sat on the boards of 2 football teams.
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The more we have Lerner the more ai appreciate Doug. Much respect.
Too right. At least Ellis managed to get us relegated properly.
Say what you like about him but he has always had Villa's interests at heart. A true football man. Can we say the same about Lerner?
To repeat what I've said before. Doug Ellis's greatest achievement was to make Villa fans think he loves the club as much as they do.
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He still goes to the games - he must have some fondness. There's absolutely no other reason to go and watch us at the moment.
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http://monash-sport-lifestyle.blogspot.ie/2014/12/the-doug-ellis-swimming-pool-is.html
https://www.dougellissportscentre.com/bcu_city_north/News
http://www.redbrick.me/news/doug-ellis-opens-university-library/
am i the only one who thinks his egomaniac tendencies in all this is a bit sickening, and a little crass.
Hopefully yes.
He's not.
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I beg to differ Dave. Doug's greatest achievement was to give me the opportunity to see the worlds most famous player play at Villa Park.
I thank him profusely for that.
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The more we have Lerner the more ai appreciate Doug. Much respect.
Too right. At least Ellis managed to get us relegated properly.
Say what you like about him but he has always had Villa's interests at heart. A true football man. Can we say the same about Lerner?
To repeat what I've said before. Doug Ellis's greatest achievement was to make Villa fans think he loves the club as much as they do.
Yes he relegated us but he did more good than bad at Villa, including giving us our longest unbroken run in the top division in decades. Something Lerner seems hell bent on destroying.
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Ellis was a self serving twat. Lerner is shit at running football clubs.
One man made his money running us, the other has sank money into us.
No matter how shite things are currently, I'm not going to don the rose tinted glasses.
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Ellis was a self serving twat. Lerner is shit at running football clubs.
One man made his money running us, the other has sank money into us.
No matter how shite things are currently, I'm not going to don the rose tinted glasses.
Exactly, revisionism of the highest order. I've forgiven him for the pigs ear he made of the club but I'll never forget.
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Ellis was a self serving twat. Lerner is shit at running football clubs.
One man made his money running us, the other has sank money into us.
No matter how shite things are currently, I'm not going to don the rose tinted glasses.
One was good at running a football club the other is absolutely awful.
If only Doug was 20 years younger and had Lerner's cash.
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Ellis was a self serving twat. Lerner is shit at running football clubs.
One man made his money running us, the other has sank money into us.
No matter how shite things are currently, I'm not going to don the rose tinted glasses.
One was good at running a football club the other is absolutely awful.
If only Doug was 20 years younger and had Lerner's cash.
I'd still want him nowhere near my football club.
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Ellis was a self serving twat. Lerner is shit at running football clubs.
One man made his money running us, the other has sank money into us.
No matter how shite things are currently, I'm not going to don the rose tinted glasses.
Exactly, revisionism of the highest order. I've forgiven him for the pigs ear he made of the club but I'll never forget.
I'd take Ellis' "pig's ear" version of Villa over Lerner's any day.
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Ellis was a self serving twat. Lerner is shit at running football clubs.
One man made his money running us, the other has sank money into us.
No matter how shite things are currently, I'm not going to don the rose tinted glasses.
Exactly, revisionism of the highest order. I've forgiven him for the pigs ear he made of the club but I'll never forget.
I'd take Ellis' "pig's ear" version of Villa over Lerner's any day.
I wonder, if we do go down do you think Lerner would put the prices up?
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I've no idea. I do know the price of my season ticket steadily rose under Lerner though. I don't understand the point you're trying to make.
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The more we have Lerner the more ai appreciate Doug. Much respect.
Too right. At least Ellis managed to get us relegated properly.
Say what you like about him but he has always had Villa's interests at heart. A true football man. Can we say the same about Lerner?
To repeat what I've said before. Doug Ellis's greatest achievement was to make Villa fans think he loves the club as much as they do.
Yes he relegated us but he did more good than bad at Villa, including giving us our longest unbroken run in the top division in decades. Something Lerner seems hell bent on destroying.
Maybe he should take some advice from someone who managed it. European champions to relegation in five years, purely for his own vanity.
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The more we have Lerner the more ai appreciate Doug. Much respect.
Too right. At least Ellis managed to get us relegated properly.
Say what you like about him but he has always had Villa's interests at heart. A true football man. Can we say the same about Lerner?
To repeat what I've said before. Doug Ellis's greatest achievement was to make Villa fans think he loves the club as much as they do.
Yes he relegated us but he did more good than bad at Villa, including giving us our longest unbroken run in the top division in decades. Something Lerner seems hell bent on destroying.
Maybe he should take some advice from someone who managed it. European champions to relegation in five years, purely for his own vanity.
True, but he got us straight back up again and we've been here ever since. Fingers crossed Lerner's incompetence and "couldn't gove a shit" attitude doesn't destroy that though.
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Graham Taylor got us back up, and he appointed himself. Then we went closer to going down on more than once occasion than we ever have under Lerner. The greatest opportunity we ever had was destroyed because of one man's vanity - everything he has ever done has got to be judged against that.
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There's a lot of revisionist bullshit being spouted on this thread. Ellis was a terrible owner. Just because he isn't Randy Lerner, it doesn't make him Jack Hayward.
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I've no idea. I do know the price of my season ticket steadily rose under Lerner though. I don't understand the point you're trying to make.
I'm making a point of questioning the character of someone who would take the European Champions down within 5 years, and then have the nerve to increase admission prices.
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Graham Taylor got us back up, and he appointed himself. Then we went closer to going down on more than once occasion than we ever have under Lerner. The greatest opportunity we ever had was destroyed because of one man's vanity - everything he has ever done has got to be judged against that.
We were never perennial relegation strugglers under Ellis like we are now under Lerner. That's a damning statistic for a billionaire chairman.
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I've no idea. I do know the price of my season ticket steadily rose under Lerner though. I don't understand the point you're trying to make.
I'm making a point of questioning the character of someone who would take the European Champions down within 5 years, and then have the nerve to increase admission prices.
That's inflation for you.
Our ticket prices were always reasonable under Ellis anyway, so again I don't understand your point.
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I've no idea. I do know the price of my season ticket steadily rose under Lerner though. I don't understand the point you're trying to make.
I'm making a point of questioning the character of someone who would take the European Champions down within 5 years, and then have the nerve to increase admission prices.
That's inflation for you.
Our ticket prices were always reasonable under Ellis anyway, so again I don't understand your point.
Yes, they were. I think they're reasonably priced still.
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I've no idea. I do know the price of my season ticket steadily rose under Lerner though. I don't understand the point you're trying to make.
I'm making a point of questioning the character of someone who would take the European Champions down within 5 years, and then have the nerve to increase admission prices.
That's inflation for you.
Our ticket prices were always reasonable under Ellis anyway, so again I don't understand your point.
Yes, they were. I think they're reasonably priced still.
You're right they are. I don't know why it was brought up.
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Graham Taylor got us back up, and he appointed himself. Then we went closer to going down on more than once occasion than we ever have under Lerner. The greatest opportunity we ever had was destroyed because of one man's vanity - everything he has ever done has got to be judged against that.
We were never perennial relegation strugglers under Ellis like we are now under Lerner. That's a damning statistic for a billionaire chairman.
85-86, 86-87 (R), 88-89, 90-91, 94-95, 05-06.
Probably only the influence of the mighty Graham Taylor, and the legacy of the windfall from two of his signings stopped there from being more.
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I've no idea. I do know the price of my season ticket steadily rose under Lerner though. I don't understand the point you're trying to make.
I'm making a point of questioning the character of someone who would take the European Champions down within 5 years, and then have the nerve to increase admission prices.
That's inflation for you.
Our ticket prices were always reasonable under Ellis anyway, so again I don't understand your point.
Yes, they were. I think they're reasonably priced still.
You're right they are. I don't know why it was brought up.
I presume it was brought up because you said that your season ticket has risen steadily under Lerner. I'm not sure that was relevant either.
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As I said, we were never perennial relegation strugglers under Ellis.
These last 5 seasons have been an absolute disgrace.
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I've no idea. I do know the price of my season ticket steadily rose under Lerner though. I don't understand the point you're trying to make.
I'm making a point of questioning the character of someone who would take the European Champions down within 5 years, and then have the nerve to increase admission prices.
That's inflation for you.
Our ticket prices were always reasonable under Ellis anyway, so again I don't understand your point.
Yes, they were. I think they're reasonably priced still.
You're right they are. I don't know why it was brought up.
I presume it was brought up because you said that your season ticket has risen steadily under Lerner. I'm not sure that was relevant either.
It was in answer to LeeB's post about Ellis putting the ticket prices up like it never happened before or since. A perfectly reasonable thing to do.
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As I said, we were never perennial relegation strugglers under Ellis.
These last 5 seasons have been an absolute disgrace.
I don't disagree with the last line, just don't see why it has to come with the beatification of Ellis.
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As I said, we were never perennial relegation strugglers under Ellis.
These last 5 seasons have been an absolute disgrace.
Five seasons an absolute disgrace you say? Like 1982-87?
Also, have a look back to how prices rose from about 1992 onwards under the benevolent old Doug.
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I remember 97/98 which was a shit season for the most part, apart from the UEFA cup run. Good old Doug put the prices up each round to show he appreciated us turning up.
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Still, it's nice he donated £1m.
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As I said, we were never perennial relegation strugglers under Ellis.
These last 5 seasons have been an absolute disgrace.
I don't disagree with the last line, just don't see why it has to come with the beatification of Ellis.
Beautification? That's a tad over the top.
I'd take Ellis over Lerner any day of the week. I don't understand why that offends you so much. Unless you've enjoyed these last 5 humiliating, embarrassing years.
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I've got a lot of time for Doug, but like Dave said, going from being the best team in european football to being relegated within five years was some doing by anyone's standards.
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Back the Doug's donation ( the argument over who is the better chairman, him or Lerner is a bit like comparing Lambert with McLeish - both absolutely dreadful managers).
He got, what, £20m for his stake in Villa and he's donated a couple of million to charity?
A nice touch but I'd have given more than that. I don't like to talk about it though
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I've got a lot of time for Doug, but like Dave said, going from being the best team in european football to being relegated within five years was some doing by anyone's standards.
The way he treated the Barton family is still remembered by some and will never be forgiven.
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As for the donation, fair play for giving it, not that he ever likes it mentioned.
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As I said, we were never perennial relegation strugglers under Ellis.
These last 5 seasons have been an absolute disgrace.
I don't disagree with the last line, just don't see why it has to come with the beatification of Ellis.
Beautification? That's a tad over the top.
I'd take Ellis over Lerner any day of the week. I don't understand why that offends you so much. Unless you've enjoyed these last 5 humiliating, embarrassing years.
I haven't enjoyed them, but it still beats standing with 12,000 others watching us limp to a draw at home to Barnsley, and wondering as a 10 year old how it relates to stories of achievement I'd been bought up on.
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I've got a lot of time for Doug, but like Dave said, going from being the best team in european football to being relegated within five years was some doing by anyone's standards.
The way he treated the Barton family is still remembered by some and will never be forgiven.
But he knew how to run a football club, unlike Lerner.
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As I said, we were never perennial relegation strugglers under Ellis.
These last 5 seasons have been an absolute disgrace.
I don't disagree with the last line, just don't see why it has to come with the beatification of Ellis.
Beautification? That's a tad over the top.
I'd take Ellis over Lerner any day of the week. I don't understand why that offends you so much. Unless you've enjoyed these last 5 humiliating, embarrassing years.
It's 'beatification' by the way. I'm not suggesting he gets a makeover.
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I've got a lot of time for Doug, but like Dave said, going from being the best team in european football to being relegated within five years was some doing by anyone's standards.
The way he treated the Barton family is still remembered by some and will never be forgiven.
But he knew how to run a football club, unlike Lerner.
Why were we so financially fucked when he left? Why were we relegated? Doesn't sound like someone who knew what he was doing to me.
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As I said, we were never perennial relegation strugglers under Ellis.
These last 5 seasons have been an absolute disgrace.
I don't disagree with the last line, just don't see why it has to come with the beatification of Ellis.
Beautification? That's a tad over the top.
I'd take Ellis over Lerner any day of the week. I don't understand why that offends you so much. Unless you've enjoyed these last 5 humiliating, embarrassing years.
I haven't enjoyed them, but it still beats standing with 12,000 others watching us limp to a draw at home to Barnsley, and wondering as a 10 year old how it relates to stories of achievement I'd been bought up on.
A bit of a stretch to say you were brought up on us winning the European Cup etc. those glory days lasted, what, 2, 3 years maximum?
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I've got a lot of time for Doug, but like Dave said, going from being the best team in european football to being relegated within five years was some doing by anyone's standards.
The way he treated the Barton family is still remembered by some and will never be forgiven.
But he knew how to run a football club, unlike Lerner.
Shall we ask someone who knows better than us? Ron Saunders for example?
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As I said, we were never perennial relegation strugglers under Ellis.
These last 5 seasons have been an absolute disgrace.
I don't disagree with the last line, just don't see why it has to come with the beatification of Ellis.
Beautification? That's a tad over the top.
I'd take Ellis over Lerner any day of the week. I don't understand why that offends you so much. Unless you've enjoyed these last 5 humiliating, embarrassing years.
It's 'beatification' by the way. I'm not suggesting he gets a makeover.
Oh lord a spelling error!
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As I said, we were never perennial relegation strugglers under Ellis.
These last 5 seasons have been an absolute disgrace.
I don't disagree with the last line, just don't see why it has to come with the beatification of Ellis.
Beautification? That's a tad over the top.
I'd take Ellis over Lerner any day of the week. I don't understand why that offends you so much. Unless you've enjoyed these last 5 humiliating, embarrassing years.
I haven't enjoyed them, but it still beats standing with 12,000 others watching us limp to a draw at home to Barnsley, and wondering as a 10 year old how it relates to stories of achievement I'd been bought up on.
A bit of a stretch to say you were brought up on us winning the European Cup etc. those glory days lasted, what, 2, 3 years maximum?
Trophy wins in 75, 77, 81, 82, 83.
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As I said, we were never perennial relegation strugglers under Ellis.
These last 5 seasons have been an absolute disgrace.
I don't disagree with the last line, just don't see why it has to come with the beatification of Ellis.
Beautification? That's a tad over the top.
I'd take Ellis over Lerner any day of the week. I don't understand why that offends you so much. Unless you've enjoyed these last 5 humiliating, embarrassing years.
I haven't enjoyed them, but it still beats standing with 12,000 others watching us limp to a draw at home to Barnsley, and wondering as a 10 year old how it relates to stories of achievement I'd been bought up on.
A bit of a stretch to say you were brought up on us winning the European Cup etc. those glory days lasted, what, 2, 3 years maximum?
Please don't tell me what I was bought up on, as I don't believe you were present at the time.
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As I was 13 in 83 I thought the Villa always won stuff. I soon learnt.
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As I said, we were never perennial relegation strugglers under Ellis.
These last 5 seasons have been an absolute disgrace.
I don't disagree with the last line, just don't see why it has to come with the beatification of Ellis.
Beautification? That's a tad over the top.
I'd take Ellis over Lerner any day of the week. I don't understand why that offends you so much. Unless you've enjoyed these last 5 humiliating, embarrassing years.
I haven't enjoyed them, but it still beats standing with 12,000 others watching us limp to a draw at home to Barnsley, and wondering as a 10 year old how it relates to stories of achievement I'd been bought up on.
A bit of a stretch to say you were brought up on us winning the European Cup etc. those glory days lasted, what, 2, 3 years maximum?
And so what? Those glory days included an achievement that only 6 other British clubs can claimed to have enjoyed.
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As I said, we were never perennial relegation strugglers under Ellis.
These last 5 seasons have been an absolute disgrace.
I don't disagree with the last line, just don't see why it has to come with the beatification of Ellis.
Beautification? That's a tad over the top.
I'd take Ellis over Lerner any day of the week. I don't understand why that offends you so much. Unless you've enjoyed these last 5 humiliating, embarrassing years.
I haven't enjoyed them, but it still beats standing with 12,000 others watching us limp to a draw at home to Barnsley, and wondering as a 10 year old how it relates to stories of achievement I'd been bought up on.
A bit of a stretch to say you were brought up on us winning the European Cup etc. those glory days lasted, what, 2, 3 years maximum?
And so what? Those glory days included an achievement that only 6 other British clubs can claimed to have enjoyed.
It's alright Clampy, my hopes as a fan are not nearly as important as saunders_heroes ire.
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A bit of a stretch to say you were brought up on us winning the European Cup etc. those glory days lasted, what, 2, 3 years maximum?
Just goes to show what our potential was once Doug's hand had been wrestled from the steering wheel. Lerner's a shite owner but that doesn't change Doug's record of underachievement and missed opportunities
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As I said, we were never perennial relegation strugglers under Ellis.
These last 5 seasons have been an absolute disgrace.
I don't disagree with the last line, just don't see why it has to come with the beatification of Ellis.
Beautification? That's a tad over the top.
I'd take Ellis over Lerner any day of the week. I don't understand why that offends you so much. Unless you've enjoyed these last 5 humiliating, embarrassing years.
I haven't enjoyed them, but it still beats standing with 12,000 others watching us limp to a draw at home to Barnsley, and wondering as a 10 year old how it relates to stories of achievement I'd been bought up on.
A bit of a stretch to say you were brought up on us winning the European Cup etc. those glory days lasted, what, 2, 3 years maximum?
And why did they only last 2-3 years again?
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Has he been on the telly talking about his donation yet?
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Back to the donation, fair play to him. He didn't have to and it's for a worthy cause.
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One thing you had to say about Ellis, he looked after himself .Someone will no doubt put me right if i am wrong,but i believe he never put any real money of his own into the club and i think he was also the first ever club chairman to pay himself a wage .As bad as Learner has turned out to be, he at least has put his own family money in.
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One thing you had to say about Ellis, he looked after himself .Someone will no doubt put me right if i am wrong,but i believe he never put any real money of his own into the club and i think he was also the first ever club chairman to pay himself a wage .As bad as Learner has turned out to be, he at least has put his own family money in.
There's no real evidence of him putting money in, and a few years ago David Conn totted up how much he'd made. Over £29 million. Link (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2006/aug/23/ellisrollsawayfromhisnice)
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Nice one Doug. And even though I work at UoB, I'm not just toeing the party line.
How did i know it would turn into a criticism of him not donating more (amongst other things hardly relevant to the donation).
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The more we have Lerner the more ai appreciate Doug. Much respect.
Too right. At least Ellis managed to get us relegated properly.
Say what you like about him but he has always had Villa's interests at heart. A true football man. Can we say the same about Lerner?
Well said.
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As I said, we were never perennial relegation strugglers under Ellis.
These last 5 seasons have been an absolute disgrace.
I don't disagree with the last line, just don't see why it has to come with the beatification of Ellis.
Beautification? That's a tad over the top.
I'd take Ellis over Lerner any day of the week. I don't understand why that offends you so much. Unless you've enjoyed these last 5 humiliating, embarrassing years.
I haven't enjoyed them, but it still beats standing with 12,000 others watching us limp to a draw at home to Barnsley, and wondering as a 10 year old how it relates to stories of achievement I'd been bought up on.
A bit of a stretch to say you were brought up on us winning the European Cup etc. those glory days lasted, what, 2, 3 years maximum?
Yeah over in 2, 3 years max, who was owner of villa in those years. Oh yes your Beloved Doug Ellis, he was such a excellent owner wasn't he, European Champions best in Europe over in 2 to 3 years relegated after 5, It's there for all to see I can't see why everyone doesn't see good old Doug like you do.
Keep trying to re-write history.
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The more we have Lerner the more ai appreciate Doug. Much respect.
Too right. At least Ellis managed to get us relegated properly.
Say what you like about him but he has always had Villa's interests at heart. A true football man. Can we say the same about Lerner?
Well said.
So did he always have Villa's interests at heart when he was on the board at Derby or Blues or Wolves?
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Out of interest when was he on the Boards of other clubs? Pre 1983 or since?
Also when we were relegated in 1986, what were our finances like? Did we have debts which led to stars being sold from the previous regime?
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As I said, we were never perennial relegation strugglers under Ellis.
These last 5 seasons have been an absolute disgrace.
I don't disagree with the last line, just don't see why it has to come with the beatification of Ellis.
And so what? Those glory days included an achievement that only 6 other British clubs can claimed to have enjoyed.
Pedant alert - surely only 5 other British clubs (winky thing)?
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As I was 13 in 83 I thought the Villa always won stuff. I soon learnt.
Same for me - remember watching the European Cup final on telly and my Dad saying make the most of it - you might never see it again. Might not ever see us score a goal again the way things are going at the moment.
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As I said, we were never perennial relegation strugglers under Ellis.
These last 5 seasons have been an absolute disgrace.
I don't disagree with the last line, just don't see why it has to come with the beatification of Ellis.
And so what? Those glory days included an achievement that only 6 other British clubs can claimed to have enjoyed.
Pedant alert - surely only 5 other British clubs (winky thing)?
Well spotted that man.
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Out of interest when was he on the Boards of other clubs? Pre 1983 or since?
Also when we were relegated in 1986, what were our finances like? Did we have debts which led to stars being sold from the previous regime?
He was at Small Heath from about 1965 until walking out of there one day to taking our chair the next. In 1982 he bought Wolves and put them into receivership two weeks later.
When he returned to Villa in 1982 he claimed (and I have no reason to doubt him) that we were heavily in debt. About a million pounds would be a reasonable estimate. This was at a time when the record transfer was (I think) the 1.7 million for Bryan Robson. Was this debt worth destroying the European Champions? Draw your own conclusion.
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Ellis was a self serving twat. Lerner is shit at running football clubs.
One man made his money running us, the other has sank money into us.
No matter how shite things are currently, I'm not going to don the rose tinted glasses.
Exactly, revisionism of the highest order. I've forgiven him for the pigs ear he made of the club but I'll never forget.
Spot on.
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The more we have Lerner the more ai appreciate Doug. Much respect.
Too right. At least Ellis managed to get us relegated properly.
Say what you like about him but he has always had Villa's interests at heart. A true football man. Can we say the same about Lerner?
Well said.
His main interests were in HDE. He made loads of dosh out of the club without investing what was really required. The redevelopment of the Trinity was a testament to his modus operandi (I'll say no more to avoid legal transgressions).
He may have had (and seems still to have) a fondness for us but his primary interest was his bank balance.
In that context, he's done well to redistribute some of his lucre to good causes.
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He can't have been all bad, I mean we all got a vote to have a stand named after him didn't we? ;)
PS Dave I still think you should write the book, Villa the Ellis years
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Randy's been pretty altruistic towards worthy causes too, to be honest. Look at the Acorns thing. It's his support of lost causes that spoil things.
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As I said, we were never perennial relegation strugglers under Ellis.
These last 5 seasons have been an absolute disgrace.
I don't disagree with the last line, just don't see why it has to come with the beatification of Ellis.
Beautification? That's a tad over the top.
I'd take Ellis over Lerner any day of the week. I don't understand why that offends you so much. Unless you've enjoyed these last 5 humiliating, embarrassing years.
I haven't enjoyed them, but it still beats standing with 12,000 others watching us limp to a draw at home to Barnsley, and wondering as a 10 year old how it relates to stories of achievement I'd been bought up on.
A bit of a stretch to say you were brought up on us winning the European Cup etc. those glory days lasted, what, 2, 3 years maximum?
Please don't tell me what I was bought up on, as I don't believe you were present at the time.
I don't give a damn what you believe. I've been a regular since '77 and a season ticket holder for most of those seasons since as well.
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I'd take Ellis over Lerner any day of the week .
The last 2-3 years have been an absolute disgrace.
At least Ellis showed up week in week out endured the good the bad and the ugly along with the fans home & away.
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As I said, we were never perennial relegation strugglers under Ellis.
These last 5 seasons have been an absolute disgrace.
I don't disagree with the last line, just don't see why it has to come with the beatification of Ellis.
Beautification? That's a tad over the top.
I'd take Ellis over Lerner any day of the week. I don't understand why that offends you so much. Unless you've enjoyed these last 5 humiliating, embarrassing years.
I haven't enjoyed them, but it still beats standing with 12,000 others watching us limp to a draw at home to Barnsley, and wondering as a 10 year old how it relates to stories of achievement I'd been bought up on.
A bit of a stretch to say you were brought up on us winning the European Cup etc. those glory days lasted, what, 2, 3 years maximum?
Please don't tell me what I was bought up on, as I don't believe you were present at the time.
I don't give a damn what you believe. I've been a regular since '77 and a season ticket holder for most of those seasons since as well.
You're so determined to take offense. I meant you took no part in my upbringing, you daft sod.
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I'd take Ellis over Lerner any day of the week .
The last 2-3 years have been an absolute disgrace.
At least Ellis showed up week in week out endured the good the bad and the ugly along with the fans home & away.
It was his (very well-paid) job.
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Nice to see him redistributing our money
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As I said, we were never perennial relegation strugglers under Ellis.
These last 5 seasons have been an absolute disgrace.
I don't disagree with the last line, just don't see why it has to come with the beatification of Ellis.
Beautification? That's a tad over the top.
I'd take Ellis over Lerner any day of the week. I don't understand why that offends you so much. Unless you've enjoyed these last 5 humiliating, embarrassing years.
I haven't enjoyed them, but it still beats standing with 12,000 others watching us limp to a draw at home to Barnsley, and wondering as a 10 year old how it relates to stories of achievement I'd been bought up on.
A bit of a stretch to say you were brought up on us winning the European Cup etc. those glory days lasted, what, 2, 3 years maximum?
Please don't tell me what I was bought up on, as I don't believe you were present at the time.
I don't give a damn what you believe. I've been a regular since '77 and a season ticket holder for most of those seasons since as well.
You're so determined to take offense. I meant you took no part in my upbringing, you daft sod.
Yes, sorry, I read it and replied quickly on an iPhone.
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As I said, we were never perennial relegation strugglers under Ellis.
These last 5 seasons have been an absolute disgrace.
I don't disagree with the last line, just don't see why it has to come with the beatification of Ellis.
Beautification? That's a tad over the top.
I'd take Ellis over Lerner any day of the week. I don't understand why that offends you so much. Unless you've enjoyed these last 5 humiliating, embarrassing years.
I haven't enjoyed them, but it still beats standing with 12,000 others watching us limp to a draw at home to Barnsley, and wondering as a 10 year old how it relates to stories of achievement I'd been bought up on.
A bit of a stretch to say you were brought up on us winning the European Cup etc. those glory days lasted, what, 2, 3 years maximum?
Please don't tell me what I was bought up on, as I don't believe you were present at the time.
I don't give a damn what you believe. I've been a regular since '77 and a season ticket holder for most of those seasons since as well.
You're so determined to take offense. I meant you took no part in my upbringing, you daft sod.
Yes, sorry, I read it and replied quickly on an iPhone.
As cop out's out go.....
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As I said, we were never perennial relegation strugglers under Ellis.
These last 5 seasons have been an absolute disgrace.
I don't disagree with the last line, just don't see why it has to come with the beatification of Ellis.
Beautification? That's a tad over the top.
I'd take Ellis over Lerner any day of the week. I don't understand why that offends you so much. Unless you've enjoyed these last 5 humiliating, embarrassing years.
I haven't enjoyed them, but it still beats standing with 12,000 others watching us limp to a draw at home to Barnsley, and wondering as a 10 year old how it relates to stories of achievement I'd been bought up on.
A bit of a stretch to say you were brought up on us winning the European Cup etc. those glory days lasted, what, 2, 3 years maximum?
Please don't tell me what I was bought up on, as I don't believe you were present at the time.
I don't give a damn what you believe. I've been a regular since '77 and a season ticket holder for most of those seasons since as well.
You're so determined to take offense. I meant you took no part in my upbringing, you daft sod.
Yes, sorry, I read it and replied quickly on an iPhone.
As cop out's out go.....
Don't start with that dummy again.
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As I said, we were never perennial relegation strugglers under Ellis.
These last 5 seasons have been an absolute disgrace.
I don't disagree with the last line, just don't see why it has to come with the beatification of Ellis.
Beautification? That's a tad over the top.
I'd take Ellis over Lerner any day of the week. I don't understand why that offends you so much. Unless you've enjoyed these last 5 humiliating, embarrassing years.
I haven't enjoyed them, but it still beats standing with 12,000 others watching us limp to a draw at home to Barnsley, and wondering as a 10 year old how it relates to stories of achievement I'd been bought up on.
A bit of a stretch to say you were brought up on us winning the European Cup etc. those glory days lasted, what, 2, 3 years maximum?
Please don't tell me what I was bought up on, as I don't believe you were present at the time.
I don't give a damn what you believe. I've been a regular since '77 and a season ticket holder for most of those seasons since as well.
You're so determined to take offense. I meant you took no part in my upbringing, you daft sod.
Yes, sorry, I read it and replied quickly on an iPhone.
As cop out's out go.....
Don't start with that dummy again.
Hmm.....judging by your last post, you have spat your's out a fair bit. Would you like me to pick it up for you?
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Spitting is a dirty, nasty habit. As is your obsession with quotathons
Count me out!
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Someone joined in the last quotathon a good 6 times.
Anyway, as we were.
Good old Doug, a very nice donation.
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Tony Barton's testimonial. That is all. The spiteful ******.
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European Cup winners to relegation 5 years later,yeah, good old Doug. Still, giving away a sizable amount of money to charitable causes is commendable even if he has to make a song and dance about it.
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I'm thinking of joining the Gym/Sport Centre at Aston Uni and went for a look around today. Only to find it is called the Sir Douglas Ellis Woodcock Sports Centre. Not being a fan of Sir Hairbert (understatement) that was a little off putting. Then I went inside and there was a massive photo of the old get in the foyer outside the gym looking just as smug as it's possible to be. That kind of thing may or may not say something about Sir Witton Lane's motives for splashing cash, but I know what I think.
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Tony Barton's testimonial. That is all. The spiteful c***.
Never, ever let it be forgotten. The egotistical knob head.
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Tony Barton's testimonial. That is all. The spiteful c***.
Never, ever let it be forgotten. The egotistical knob head.
This.
Still find it hard to believe.
FFS!
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I respect Dong for things like this, but am not going to suddenly pretend that he was a good chairman who had our best interests at heart.
What you have to remember also is that football has changed even over the last seven or so years. For most of Ellis' reign money did not divide clubs as much. A top six or seven club which we had been during a lot of those years were not so far away from a top three club/title contender, but now the gap is huge. And don't forget Learner put a lot more money into trying to make us a top club than Ellis did, and because of the way the game has gone during his period in change when we didn't get 4th during the MON years then it had a bigger impact on us than it would have had during Deadly Doug's days.
The worse thing I can say about Learner is that he has been quite naive when it comes to the footballing side of things, but then you always run that risk when appointin a foriegn owner. I don't know how anyone can say that he hasn't tried to do his best for the club, it just hasn't worked out sadly.
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Well done Doug.
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I doubt Doug would have stood for the crap we've had for 5 years and just stuck blindly with the same manager.
I also doubt he would let MON have the keys and combination to the safe so he could help himself.
Compared to Lerner's string of dismal appointments, Doug's record of appointing managers was practically flawless.
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I doubt Doug would have stood for the crap we've had for 5 years and just stuck blindly with the same manager.
I also doubt he would let MON have the keys and combination to the safe so he could help himself.
Compared to Lerner's string of dismal appointments, Doug's record of appointing managers was practically flawless.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjEyWDQyMA==/$(KGrHqN,!i0E+IrJMZETBQCVqhRtf!~~60_35.JPG)
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02202/billy-mcneill_2202703a.jpg)
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Revisionist History Pisses me off.
Doug was a self-serving bugger who, having a good enough business acumen to create a travel business in the 60,s and 70,s wheeled and dealed himself around Midlands football.
He tried his luck at us, the bloose and unless I am mistaken a stint at Wolves.
His exploits are well recorded on this forum, Paid Chairman, launching a share scheme, Accepting a stand named after him, yes Doug would have probably sacked Lambert after his first season, but so would I.
Doug is an old man and you can not take it with you, so (if I am cynical ) he is trying to create a legacy.
Well good luck to him, he still goes to the games, but so do many others without his resources and frankly what else would he do on a Saturday ?
I bear nobody any ill will (hey I watched Bunker and felt sorry for Hitler) but Doug is no Angel. At best he was a stubborn old fucker who missed the Premier League vision and did not invest when we finished second in the first year.
At worst he was a, greedy, manipulative, spiteful, egotistical twat .
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Tony Barton's testimonial. That is all. The spiteful c***.
Never, ever let it be forgotten. The egotistical knob head.
This.
Still find it hard to believe.
FFS!
Definitely.
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I doubt Doug would have stood for the crap we've had for 5 years and just stuck blindly with the same manager.
I also doubt he would let MON have the keys and combination to the safe so he could help himself.
Compared to Lerner's string of dismal appointments, Doug's record of appointing managers was practically flawless.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjEyWDQyMA==/$(KGrHqN,!i0E+IrJMZETBQCVqhRtf!~~60_35.JPG)
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02202/billy-mcneill_2202703a.jpg)
Fair enough, Ellis made some bad appointments, but at least there was the odd good appointment thrown in. All of the managers Lerner appointed have flattered to deceive.
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Revisionist History Pisses me off.
Doug was a self-serving bugger who, having a good enough business acumen to create a travel business in the 60,s and 70,s wheeled and dealed himself around Midlands football.
He tried his luck at us, the bloose and unless I am mistaken a stint at Wolves.
His exploits are well recorded on this forum, Paid Chairman, launching a share scheme, Accepting a stand named after him, yes Doug would have probably sacked Lambert after his first season, but so would I.
Doug is an old man and you can not take it with you, so (if I am cynical ) he is trying to create a legacy.
Well good luck to him, he still goes to the games, but so do many others without his resources and frankly what else would he do on a Saturday ?
I bear nobody any ill will (hey I watched Bunker and felt sorry for Hitler) but Doug is no Angel. At best he was a stubborn old fucker who missed the Premier League vision and did not invest when we finished second in the first year.
At worst he was a, greedy, manipulative, spiteful, egotistical twat .
I'm not too keen on following a lengthy post with a one word reply such as 'agreed' but it's the only one possible here.
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Yeah fare play to Doug for this, but history can't be re-written, breaking up the 82 team, two terrible successive appointments that cost us our league place. Never quite going the whole hog when we were in a strong position.
Things are awful now, but I can't believe 86 and 87 was any better and there must be a reason why USA USA was ringing round VP a few years back.
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Revisionist History Pisses me off.
Doug was a self-serving bugger who, having a good enough business acumen to create a travel business in the 60,s and 70,s wheeled and dealed himself around Midlands football.
He tried his luck at us, the bloose and unless I am mistaken a stint at Wolves.
His exploits are well recorded on this forum, Paid Chairman, launching a share scheme, Accepting a stand named after him, yes Doug would have probably sacked Lambert after his first season, but so would I.
Doug is an old man and you can not take it with you, so (if I am cynical ) he is trying to create a legacy.
Well good luck to him, he still goes to the games, but so do many others without his resources and frankly what else would he do on a Saturday ?
I bear nobody any ill will (hey I watched Bunker and felt sorry for Hitler) but Doug is no Angel. At best he was a stubborn old fucker who missed the Premier League vision and did not invest when we finished second in the first year.
At worst he was a, greedy, manipulative, spiteful, egotistical twat .
I'm not too keen on following a lengthy post with a one word reply such as 'agreed' but it's the only one possible here.
I am. Agreed.
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Revisionist History Pisses me off.
Doug was a self-serving bugger who, having a good enough business acumen to create a travel business in the 60,s and 70,s wheeled and dealed himself around Midlands football.
He tried his luck at us, the bloose and unless I am mistaken a stint at Wolves.
His exploits are well recorded on this forum, Paid Chairman, launching a share scheme, Accepting a stand named after him, yes Doug would have probably sacked Lambert after his first season, but so would I.
Doug is an old man and you can not take it with you, so (if I am cynical ) he is trying to create a legacy.
Well good luck to him, he still goes to the games, but so do many others without his resources and frankly what else would he do on a Saturday ?
I bear nobody any ill will (hey I watched Bunker and felt sorry for Hitler) but Doug is no Angel. At best he was a stubborn old fucker who missed the Premier League vision and did not invest when we finished second in the first year.
At worst he was a, greedy, manipulative, spiteful, egotistical twat .
Excellently put.
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Revisionist History Pisses me off.
Doug was a self-serving bugger who, having a good enough business acumen to create a travel business in the 60,s and 70,s wheeled and dealed himself around Midlands football.
He tried his luck at us, the bloose and unless I am mistaken a stint at Wolves.
His exploits are well recorded on this forum, Paid Chairman, launching a share scheme, Accepting a stand named after him, yes Doug would have probably sacked Lambert after his first season, but so would I.
Doug is an old man and you can not take it with you, so (if I am cynical ) he is trying to create a legacy.
Well good luck to him, he still goes to the games, but so do many others without his resources and frankly what else would he do on a Saturday ?
I bear nobody any ill will (hey I watched Bunker and felt sorry for Hitler) but Doug is no Angel. At best he was a stubborn old fucker who missed the Premier League vision and did not invest when we finished second in the first year.
At worst he was a, greedy, manipulative, spiteful, egotistical twat .
Spot on, although a tad too long for the headstone.
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Revisionist History Pisses me off.
Doug was a self-serving bugger who, having a good enough business acumen to create a travel business in the 60,s and 70,s wheeled and dealed himself around Midlands football.
He tried his luck at us, the bloose and unless I am mistaken a stint at Wolves.
His exploits are well recorded on this forum, Paid Chairman, launching a share scheme, Accepting a stand named after him, yes Doug would have probably sacked Lambert after his first season, but so would I.
Doug is an old man and you can not take it with you, so (if I am cynical ) he is trying to create a legacy.
Well good luck to him, he still goes to the games, but so do many others without his resources and frankly what else would he do on a Saturday ?
I bear nobody any ill will (hey I watched Bunker and felt sorry for Hitler) but Doug is no Angel. At best he was a stubborn old fucker who missed the Premier League vision and did not invest when we finished second in the first year.
At worst he was a, greedy, manipulative, spiteful, egotistical twat .
I'm not too keen on following a lengthy post with a one word reply such as 'agreed' but it's the only one possible here.
But I'd still take him over the charlatan of a chairman we have in charge now.
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We were selling the Serpentine to cover running costs before Lerner took over. We'd have been out of the division long before now.
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We were selling the Serpentine to cover running costs before Lerner took over. We'd have been out of the division long before now.
Well we'll never know that for sure, but under Lerner we're getting closer to the drop with every season that passes.
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I have never been more sure we would be going down the following season as I was the last game of 05/06. Mr Fickle hiding as season ticket books were thrown on the pitch during the lap of appreciation, the club without a pot to piss in.
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I have never been more sure we would be going down the following season as I was the last game of 05/06. Mr Fickle hiding as season ticket books were thrown on the pitch during the lap of appreciation, the club without a pot to piss in.
Thankfully the bad times were relatively short under Ellis. Unlike now under Lerner.
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When did Ellis ever get us back to the times he inherited?
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Revisionist History Pisses me off.
Doug was a self-serving bugger who, having a good enough business acumen to create a travel business in the 60,s and 70,s wheeled and dealed himself around Midlands football.
He tried his luck at us, the bloose and unless I am mistaken a stint at Wolves.
His exploits are well recorded on this forum, Paid Chairman, launching a share scheme, Accepting a stand named after him, yes Doug would have probably sacked Lambert after his first season, but so would I.
Doug is an old man and you can not take it with you, so (if I am cynical ) he is trying to create a legacy.
Well good luck to him, he still goes to the games, but so do many others without his resources and frankly what else would he do on a Saturday ?
I bear nobody any ill will (hey I watched Bunker and felt sorry for Hitler) but Doug is no Angel. At best he was a stubborn old fucker who missed the Premier League vision and did not invest when we finished second in the first year.
At worst he was a, greedy, manipulative, spiteful, egotistical twat .
Actually quite marvellously put Steamer, especially the last line. Should really be Doug's epitaph.
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When did Ellis ever get us back to the times he inherited?
I never said he did so god knows why you're asking. What I do know though is that the bad times under Ellis never lasted as long as this shitty little era we now find ourselves under Lerner.
5 relegation battles on the trot. What an absolute disgrace.
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When did Ellis ever get us back to the times he inherited?
I never said he did so god knows why you're asking. What I do know though is that the bad times under Ellis never lasted as long as this shitty little era we now find ourselves under Lerner.
5 relegation battles on the trot. What an absolute disgrace.
Yeah, it is, but so was what happened after 1982.
And we find ourselves here through haplessness, whereas we found ourselves there through spite.
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When did Ellis ever get us back to the times he inherited?
I never said he did so god knows why you're asking. What I do know though is that the bad times under Ellis never lasted as long as this shitty little era we now find ourselves under Lerner.
5 relegation battles on the trot. What an absolute disgrace.
Yeah, it is, but so was what happened after 1982.
And we find ourselves here through haplessness, whereas we found ourselves there through spite.
Again that's just your opinion. I for one think what Lerner has done to us over the last 5 years is disgraceful and down to pure spite.
This from the so called Villa "custodian".
Don't make me fuckin laugh, Randy.
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When did Ellis ever get us back to the times he inherited?
I never said he did so god knows why you're asking. What I do know though is that the bad times under Ellis never lasted as long as this shitty little era we now find ourselves under Lerner.
5 relegation battles on the trot. What an absolute disgrace.
Yes, you'd have thought he could have managed it once or twice. Ellis did.
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Even if it were down to spite, which I can't believe you honestly think it is, it would still be rank haplessness as he would only be in spite of himself.
It would be the definition of shooting yourself in the foot, he'd lose himself even more money. Something that the Master Businessman would certainly never have allowed to happen.
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When did Ellis ever get us back to the times he inherited?
I never said he did so god knows why you're asking. What I do know though is that the bad times under Ellis never lasted as long as this shitty little era we now find ourselves under Lerner.
5 relegation battles on the trot. What an absolute disgrace.
Yeah, it is, but so was what happened after 1982.
And we find ourselves here through haplessness, whereas we found ourselves there through spite.
Again that's just your opinion. I for one think what Lerner has done to us over the last 5 years is disgraceful and down to pure spite.
This from the so called Villa "custodian".
Don't make me fuckin laugh, Randy.
It's not just Lee's opinion. Ask Dennis Mortimer and Allan Evans for a start.
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When did Ellis ever get us back to the times he inherited?
I never said he did so god knows why you're asking. What I do know though is that the bad times under Ellis never lasted as long as this shitty little era we now find ourselves under Lerner.
5 relegation battles on the trot. What an absolute disgrace.
Yeah, it is, but so was what happened after 1982.
And we find ourselves here through haplessness, whereas we found ourselves there through spite.
Again that's just your opinion. I for one think what Lerner has done to us over the last 5 years is disgraceful and down to pure spite.
This from the so called Villa "custodian".
Don't make me fuckin laugh, Randy.
It's not just Lee's opinion. Ask Dennis Mortimer and Allan Evans for a start.
I'm not interested in who those two may or may not have fallen out with (though from what I can gather Mortimer falls out with practically everyone), I'm interested in Villa in the here and now, and sadly we have a chairman who couldn't give a flying shite about Aston Villa. 5 years of decline is entirely his fault.
It isn't a crime to suggest I'd take Ellis over this charlatan any day of the week.
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You just said that it was only Lee's opinion. Then when I said that two genuine Saunders' Heroes (not to mention the man himself) say the same thing you're not interested. Make your mind up.
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You just said that it was only Lee's opinion. Then when I said that two genuine Saunders' Heroes (not to mention the man himself) say the same thing you're not interested. Make your mind up.
And it's only their opinion, and I also pointed out that Mortimer seems to fall out with a lot of people. How many of the '81-'82 squad is he actuallyspeaking to these days?
By the way, it's not a crime to look back on Ellis' days at the club without the hatred that many on here have for them. We had some bloody good seasons under him, and like it or not, Dave, we NEVER spent 5 consecutive seasons battling relegations, nor did our shit eras last this long either.
Far from me to suggest it was brilliant, but it was never this bad as it is under Lerner.
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It's "only" Dennis Mortimer's opinion. It's "only" Ron Saunders' opinion. Do you think their opinion might just carry more weight than yours?
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It's "only" Dennis Mortimer's opinion. It's "only" Ron Saunders' opinion. Do you think their opinion might just carry more weight than yours?
Everyone's entitled to their opinion, Dave. Even us mere mortals.
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You just said that it was only Lee's opinion. Then when I said that two genuine Saunders' Heroes (not to mention the man himself) say the same thing you're not interested. Make your mind up.
And it's only their opinion, and I also pointed out that Mortimer seems to fall out with a lot of people. How many of the '81-'82 squad is he actuallyspeaking to these days?
By the way, it's not a crime to look back on Ellis' days at the club without the hatred that many on here have for them. We had some bloody good seasons under him, and like it or not, Dave, we NEVER spent 5 consecutive seasons battling relegations, nor did our shit eras last this long either.
Far from me to suggest it was brilliant, but it was never this bad as it is under Lerner.
Never this bad? I must have imagined relegation in '87 and another three relegation battles in '86, '89 and '91. So a same five year period as you refer to.
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You just said that it was only Lee's opinion. Then when I said that two genuine Saunders' Heroes (not to mention the man himself) say the same thing you're not interested. Make your mind up.
And it's only their opinion, and I also pointed out that Mortimer seems to fall out with a lot of people. How many of the '81-'82 squad is he actuallyspeaking to these days?
By the way, it's not a crime to look back on Ellis' days at the club without the hatred that many on here have for them. We had some bloody good seasons under him, and like it or not, Dave, we NEVER spent 5 consecutive seasons battling relegations, nor did our shit eras last this long either.
Far from me to suggest it was brilliant, but it was never this bad as it is under Lerner.
Never this bad? I must have imagined relegation in '87 and another three relegation battles in '86, '89 and '91. So a same five year period as you refer to.
5 consecutive relegation battles?
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No. We discovered the best way to avoid that is relegation.
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No. We discovered the best way to avoid that is relegation.
It's been a long long time since we were as shit as we are right now (and have been for 5 seasons) yet Lerner gets away with it. Why?
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No. We discovered the best way to avoid that is relegation.
It's been a long long time since we were as shit as we are right now (and have been for 5 seasons) yet Lerner gets away with it. Why?
Because he owns the club and there' suck all we can do about it, which is much the same as it was under Ellis.
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I was so happy the day Ellis sold us. Thinking back to his years running the club as glorious, stable and successful times is a bit like the Carlos Cuéllar effect.
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I was so happy the day Ellis sold us. Thinking back to his years running the club as glorious, stable and successful times is a bit like the Carlos Cuéllar effect.
No one is saying it was a glorious and successful, but stable? Yes it was. He gave us the longest unbroken run the top division for decades. That can't be denied.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I curse the day he sold us to Randy fuckin Lerner that's for sure.
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It is possible to be critical of Doug AND Randy. Ironically Doug's pride both caused and solved problems over the years. His much criticised (and rightly so) ego meant he didn't take kindly to failure and took steps to avoid it or recover from it as quickly as possible.
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I was so happy the day Ellis sold us. Thinking back to his years running the club as glorious, stable and successful times is a bit like the Carlos Cuéllar effect.
No one is saying it was a glorious and successful, but stable? Yes it was. He gave us the longest unbroken run the top division for decades. That can't be denied.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I curse the day he sold us to Randy fuckin Lerner that's for sure.
Because on that day we were doing so fuckin well.
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No. We discovered the best way to avoid that is relegation.
It's been a long long time since we were as shit as we are right now (and have been for 5 seasons) yet Lerner gets away with it. Why?
Yes, the last time was 2006.
Again I have to remind you that we've been in a relegation battle for 5 consecutive seasons under Randy Lerner.
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It is possible to be critical of Doug AND Randy. Ironically Doug's pride both caused and solved problems over the years. His much criticised (and rightly so) ego meant he didn't take kindly to failure and took steps to avoid it or recover from it as quickly as possible.
Exactly!
It seems only Ellis can be criticised but not Lerner though.
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I was so happy the day Ellis sold us. Thinking back to his years running the club as glorious, stable and successful times is a bit like the Carlos Cuéllar effect.
No one is saying it was a glorious and successful, but stable? Yes it was. He gave us the longest unbroken run the top division for decades. That can't be denied.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I curse the day he sold us to Randy fuckin Lerner that's for sure.
Because on that day we were doing so fuckin well.
No one said we were. I don't rememeber us being perennial relegation strugglers who broke every shit record at the club back then though. Do you?
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It is possible to be critical of Doug AND Randy. Ironically Doug's pride both caused and solved problems over the years. His much criticised (and rightly so) ego meant he didn't take kindly to failure and took steps to avoid it or recover from it as quickly as possible.
Exactly!
It seems only Ellis can be criticised but not Lerner though.
Tell me anyone who hasn't criticised Lerner.
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Interesting Mortimer seems to have kept his counsel over 5 years of utter tripe when you consider he couldn't wait to stick the boot into Ellis.
Yes, Doug made mistakes, but at least he made one of two good decisions along the way. Lerner has made one cock up after another.
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I was so happy the day Ellis sold us. Thinking back to his years running the club as glorious, stable and successful times is a bit like the Carlos Cuéllar effect.
No one is saying it was a glorious and successful, but stable? Yes it was. He gave us the longest unbroken run the top division for decades. That can't be denied.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I curse the day he sold us to Randy fuckin Lerner that's for sure.
Because on that day we were doing so fuckin well.
No one said we were. I don't rememeber us being perennial relegation strugglers who broke every shit record at the club back then though. Do you?
Yes I can remember us being perennial relegation strugglers. 1986, 1987, 1989, 1991, 1995, 2003, 2006. Seven times in twenty years, not including the time we actually managed to get relegated. And this from the start point Ellis had, at a time when we only had about three clubs in the country to worry about, none of which were within eighty miles. And if you really want to talk about bad times, how about finishing below Halifax in the league?
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It is possible to be critical of Doug AND Randy. Ironically Doug's pride both caused and solved problems over the years. His much criticised (and rightly so) ego meant he didn't take kindly to failure and took steps to avoid it or recover from it as quickly as possible.
Exactly!
It seems only Ellis can be criticised but not Lerner though.
Tell me anyone who hasn't criticised Lerner.
Well there's you for a start. Unless you class the mild "oh I wish he'd sack Lambert" stuff you come out with in your weekly blog as criticism of the chairman? You're quick to criticise the manager, but the chairman? He gets away scot free from what I can see.
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Interesting Mortimer seems to have kept his counsel over 5 years of utter tripe when you consider. He couldn't wait to stick the boot into Ellis.
Yes, Doug made mistakes, but at least he made one of two good decisions along the way. Lerner has made one cock up after another.
Very true. Mortimer comes across as a tad bitter to me, and seems to fall out with a lot of people at Villa. He's obviously got a problem with Ellis (which I think was about money) and he was always quick to stick the boot in. He doesn't seem to say much about the shit we've been in for the last 5 years though.
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I was so happy the day Ellis sold us. Thinking back to his years running the club as glorious, stable and successful times is a bit like the Carlos Cuéllar effect.
No one is saying it was a glorious and successful, but stable? Yes it was. He gave us the longest unbroken run the top division for decades. That can't be denied.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I curse the day he sold us to Randy fuckin Lerner that's for sure.
Because on that day we were doing so fuckin well.
No one said we were. I don't rememeber us being perennial relegation strugglers who broke every shit record at the club back then though. Do you?
Yes I can remember us being perennial relegation strugglers. 1986, 1987, 1989, 1991, 1995, 2003, 2006. Seven times in twenty years, not including the time we actually managed to get relegated. And this from the start point Ellis had, at a time when we only had about three clubs in the country to worry about, none of which were within eighty miles. And if you really want to talk about bad times, how about finishing below Halifax in the league?
As I said, I don't remember us being perennial relation strugglers back then.
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It is possible to be critical of Doug AND Randy. Ironically Doug's pride both caused and solved problems over the years. His much criticised (and rightly so) ego meant he didn't take kindly to failure and took steps to avoid it or recover from it as quickly as possible.
Exactly!
It seems only Ellis can be criticised but not Lerner though.
Tell me anyone who hasn't criticised Lerner.
Well there's you for a start. Unless you class the mild "oh I wish he'd sack Lambert" stuff you come out with in your weekly blog as criticism of the chairman? You're quick to criticise the manager, but the chairman? He gets away scot free from what I can see.
Right, so it's not criticism unless you see it and you agree with it. Thank you for making the rules clear.
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It is possible to be critical of Doug AND Randy. Ironically Doug's pride both caused and solved problems over the years. His much criticised (and rightly so) ego meant he didn't take kindly to failure and took steps to avoid it or recover from it as quickly as possible.
Exactly!
It seems only Ellis can be criticised but not Lerner though.
Tell me anyone who hasn't criticised Lerner.
Well there's you for a start. Unless you class the mild "oh I wish he'd sack Lambert" stuff you come out with in your weekly blog as criticism of the chairman? You're quick to criticise the manager, but the chairman? He gets away scot free from what I can see.
Right, so it's not criticism unless you see it and you agree with it. Thank you for making the rules clear.
Not at all, Dave, don't be like that. I'm just surprised that you don't feel the need to criticise the chairman much considering we're now in our 5th season of utter tripe whilst breaking practically every single shit record at the club and have been turned into a laughing stock. Obviously it's nothing to do with Randy Lerner. After all he's only the fuckin chairman.
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First of all you can answer how my opinion of Randy Lerner is connected to a thread about Doug Ellis. Second, you can tell me that you've read and heard everything I've had to say on the subject. Did you, for example, watch Central News on Friday night? This forum is not the entire world. Third, I can only paraphrase the words of lamdrew08 to add to my own - Randy may have failed to bring about a modicum of success which may or may not have been sustainable given the changes in football over the past eight years but Ellis singlehandedly destroyed the greatest opportunity this club has ever had purely for his own vanity and then failed to capitalise on numerous others because of his lack of vision. I do not believe that Randy Lerner has deliberately sabotaged the club. I do believe that Doug Ellis did.
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Was it three relegations Doug presided over?
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Was it three relegations Doug presided over?
1970 and 1987 I believe
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First of all you can answer how my opinion of Randy Lerner is connected to a thread about Doug Ellis. Second, you can tell me that you've read and heard everything I've had to say on the subject. Did you, for example, watch Central News on Friday night? This forum is not the entire world. Third, I can only paraphrase the words of lamdrew08 to add to my own - Randy may have failed to bring about a modicum of success which may or may not have been sustainable given the changes in football over the past eight years but Ellis singlehandedly destroyed the greatest opportunity this club has ever had purely for his own vanity and then failed to capitalise on numerous others because of his lack of vision. I do not believe that Randy Lerner has deliberately sabotaged the club. I do believe that Doug Ellis did.
Even in the above post you give Lerner such an easy ride then you let rip into Ellis!
Deliberate sabotage? Come on!
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First of all you can answer how my opinion of Randy Lerner is connected to a thread about Doug Ellis. Second, you can tell me that you've read and heard everything I've had to say on the subject. Did you, for example, watch Central News on Friday night? This forum is not the entire world. Third, I can only paraphrase the words of lamdrew08 to add to my own - Randy may have failed to bring about a modicum of success which may or may not have been sustainable given the changes in football over the past eight years but Ellis singlehandedly destroyed the greatest opportunity this club has ever had purely for his own vanity and then failed to capitalise on numerous others because of his lack of vision. I do not believe that Randy Lerner has deliberately sabotaged the club. I do believe that Doug Ellis did.
Even in the above post you give Lerner such an easy ride then you let rip into Ellis!
Deliberate sabotage? Come on!
Given that I was explaining the reason why I wouldn't criticise Randy as much as Ellis it's hardly surprising is it?
Yes, deliberate for the reasons explained above.
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I wasn't aware anyone doubted that there was a degree of spite involved when Doug returned.
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First of all you can answer how my opinion of Randy Lerner is connected to a thread about Doug Ellis. Second, you can tell me that you've read and heard everything I've had to say on the subject. Did you, for example, watch Central News on Friday night? This forum is not the entire world. Third, I can only paraphrase the words of lamdrew08 to add to my own - Randy may have failed to bring about a modicum of success which may or may not have been sustainable given the changes in football over the past eight years but Ellis singlehandedly destroyed the greatest opportunity this club has ever had purely for his own vanity and then failed to capitalise on numerous others because of his lack of vision. I do not believe that Randy Lerner has deliberately sabotaged the club. I do believe that Doug Ellis did.
Even in the above post you give Lerner such an easy ride then you let rip into Ellis!
Deliberate sabotage? Come on!
Given that I was explaining the reason why I wouldn't criticise Randy as much as Ellis it's hardly surprising is it?
Yes, deliberate for the reasons explained above.
You make it sound like it was hell under Ellis without even a chink of light (a bit like these last 5 seasons).
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Both men have made mistakes, but at least Ellis would front up and face the music, as opposed to fleeing back to America and hiding like Lerner has.
Its a shame that proud history, bright future scarf he gave us cant be used as a contract, as I'd sue him for breach of contract.
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Both men have made mistakes, but at least Ellis would front up and face the music, as opposed to fleeing back to America and hiding like Lerner has.
Its a shame that proud history, bright future scarf he gave us cant be used as a contract, as I'd sue him for breach of contract.
Exactly. Ellis for all his faults faces the music and never hid like Lerner does and continues to do.
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Doug had no choice. I doubt he would have faced the music if it wasn't for the shareholder meetings.
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The other thing to remember is that it was Doug's job. He was paid to do it. And if you want a philanthropist owner you'd better get used to not seeing him very much because the chances of having one who lives locally and hasn't any other business interests are extremely remote.
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Comparing Lerner to Ellis ...well you just can't the latter gives a fuck the former ..well, just doesn't .
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Comparing Lerner to Ellis ...well you just can't the latter gives a fuck the former ..well, just doesn't .
The main thing Herbert gives a f**k about is himself.
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Comparing Lerner to Ellis ...well you just can't the latter gives a fuck the former ..well, just doesn't .
The main thing Herbert gives a f**k about is himself.
And Lerner?
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The other thing to remember is that it was Doug's job. He was paid to do it. And if you want a philanthropist owner you'd better get used to not seeing him very much because the chances of having one who lives locally and hasn't any other business interests are extremely remote.
Well we'd never know what kind of an owner Ellis would have been if he had the money Lerner has.
Ellis did a better job than Lerner in my opinion, and he didn't have a billion quid in the bank and had a third share in a trust fund worth another 3.5 billion like Lerner has.
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The other thing to remember is that it was Doug's job. He was paid to do it. And if you want a philanthropist owner you'd better get used to not seeing him very much because the chances of having one who lives locally and hasn't any other business interests are extremely remote.
Well we'd never know what kind of an owner Ellis would have been if he had the money Lerner has.
Ellis did a better job than Lerner in my opinion, and he didn't have a billion quid in the bank and had a third share in a trust fund worth another 3.5 billion like Lerner has.
So what if he's the richest man in the world? It's his money to do with as he pleases. Lerner didn't inherit what Ellis did, didn't ruin it and didn't squander the chances Ellis did. And he certainly didn't take as much out as Ellis did. Incidentally, did you buy any of those "good value in the short, medium and long term" shares that were floated at £11 and dropped to 105p?
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The other thing to remember is that it was Doug's job. He was paid to do it. And if you want a philanthropist owner you'd better get used to not seeing him very much because the chances of having one who lives locally and hasn't any other business interests are extremely remote.
Well we'd never know what kind of an owner Ellis would have been if he had the money Lerner has.
Ellis did a better job than Lerner in my opinion, and he didn't have a billion quid in the bank and had a third share in a trust fund worth another 3.5 billion like Lerner has.
So what if he's the richest man in the world? It's his money to do with as he pleases. Lerner didn't inherit what Ellis did, didn't ruin it and didn't squander the chances Ellis did. And he certainly didn't take as much out as Ellis did. Incidentally, did you buy any of those "good value in the short, medium and long term" shares that were floated at £11 and dropped to 105p?
Lerner's a billionaire and Ellis isn't. The billionaire has reduced us to a laughing stock and you don't seem to have a problem with it.
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The other thing to remember is that it was Doug's job. He was paid to do it. And if you want a philanthropist owner you'd better get used to not seeing him very much because the chances of having one who lives locally and hasn't any other business interests are extremely remote.
Well we'd never know what kind of an owner Ellis would have been if he had the money Lerner has.
Ellis did a better job than Lerner in my opinion, and he didn't have a billion quid in the bank and had a third share in a trust fund worth another 3.5 billion like Lerner has.
So what if he's the richest man in the world? It's his money to do with as he pleases. Lerner didn't inherit what Ellis did, didn't ruin it and didn't squander the chances Ellis did. And he certainly didn't take as much out as Ellis did. Incidentally, did you buy any of those "good value in the short, medium and long term" shares that were floated at £11 and dropped to 105p?
Lerner's a billionaire and Ellis isn't. The billionaire has reduced us to a laughing stock and you don't seem to have a problem with it.
Which isn't true, but don't let things like facts get in the way. Not, as I've said above, that it's got anything to do with this thread. And neither has Randy Lerner's wealth.
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Randy's obscene wealth could have bought us out of trouble over these last 5 years but he's done nothing. Imagine the grief you'd have given Ellis if he had done the same.
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Randy's obscene wealth could have bought us out of trouble over these last 5 years but he's done nothing. Imagine the grief you'd have given Ellis if he had done the same.
What the fuck is your continued obsession with me and what I think all about?
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Randy's obscene wealth could have bought us out of trouble over these last 5 years but he's done nothing. Imagine the grief you'd have given Ellis if he had done the same.
What the fuck is your continued obsession with me and what I think all about?
What's with your obsession with defending Lerner?
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Randy's obscene wealth could have bought us out of trouble over these last 5 years but he's done nothing. Imagine the grief you'd have given Ellis if he had done the same.
What the fuck is your continued obsession with me and what I think all about?
What's with your obsession with defending Lerner?
And another one.
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Randy's obscene wealth could have bought us out of trouble over these last 5 years but he's done nothing. Imagine the grief you'd have given Ellis if he had done the same.
What the fuck is your continued obsession with me and what I think all about?
What's with your obsession with defending Lerner?
And another one.
What an ego.
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If you want to talk about me I'm sure Troy & co will oblige you.
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First of all you can answer how my opinion of Randy Lerner is connected to a thread about Doug Ellis. Second, you can tell me that you've read and heard everything I've had to say on the subject. Did you, for example, watch Central News on Friday night? This forum is not the entire world. Third, I can only paraphrase the words of lamdrew08 to add to my own - Randy may have failed to bring about a modicum of success which may or may not have been sustainable given the changes in football over the past eight years but Ellis singlehandedly destroyed the greatest opportunity this club has ever had purely for his own vanity and then failed to capitalise on numerous others because of his lack of vision. I do not believe that Randy Lerner has deliberately sabotaged the club. I do believe that Doug Ellis did.
Even in the above post you give Lerner such an easy ride then you let rip into Ellis!
Deliberate sabotage? Come on!
That's what you accused Lerner of a couple pages back.
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If you want to talk about me I'm sure Troy & co will oblige you.
I haven't got the foggiest idea what you're talking about here.
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If you want to talk about me I'm sure Troy & co will oblige you.
I have got the foggiest idea what you're talking about here.
If you want to talk about me - which you've spent over an hour doing on this thread - then feel free to do it elsewhere.
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If you want to talk about me I'm sure Troy & co will oblige you.
I have got the foggiest idea what you're talking about here.
If you want to talk about me - which you've spent over an hour doing on this thread - then feel free to do it elsewhere.
That's the usual response to resort to when you get annoyed. As for Troy, I haven't got a bloody clue what you're talking about.
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I will never respect Ellis after how he nearly fecked the club up when he wanted rid of Saunders if he had won the AGM.
As for Lerner, he has been a big let down, those scarves at the Sheffield United game seem rather hollow now
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I will never respect Ellis after how he nearly fecked the club up when he wanted rid of Saunders if he had won the AGM.
As for Lerner, he has been a big let down, those scarves at the Sheffield United game seem rather hollow now
I think arguably the biggest problem with Lerner was that we'd kidded ourselves into thinking that once Doug went success would automatically follow. Randy talked a good fight and we added a bit of wishful thinking. That Bright Future stuff was a marketing slogan, not the Eleventh Commandment.
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I will never respect Ellis after how he nearly fecked the club up when he wanted rid of Saunders if he had won the AGM.
As for Lerner, he has been a big let down, those scarves at the Sheffield United game seem rather hollow now
I think arguably the biggest problem with Lerner was that we'd kidded ourselves into thinking that once Doug went success would automatically follow. Randy talked a good fight and we added a bit of wishful thinking. That Bright Future stuff was a marketing slogan, not the Eleventh Commandment.
Other than Chelsea, I think we thought Lerner may be the big spender. To be fair he did fork out some money, but Man City came into the equation along with the already big boys.
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I will never respect Ellis after how he nearly fecked the club up when he wanted rid of Saunders if he had won the AGM.
As for Lerner, he has been a big let down, those scarves at the Sheffield United game seem rather hollow now
I think arguably the biggest problem with Lerner was that we'd kidded ourselves into thinking that once Doug went success would automatically follow. Randy talked a good fight and we added a bit of wishful thinking. That Bright Future stuff was a marketing slogan, not the Eleventh Commandment.
Other than Chelsea, I think we thought Lerner may be the big spender. To be fair he did fork out some money, but Man City came into the equation along with the already big boys.
I wonder how much Spurs finally getting their act together affected it as well. Any decent-sized club in London has more money and can attract players more easily than us.
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Maybe so. The location is always an issue. There again, look at that Spurs team v Arsenal today, know another subject. I was chatting to Spud mate I work with and reckon on paper it looks poor but the manager has got them playing as he wants now, Have to say I thought Kane was a donkey, he has proved me totally wrong, a la Des Bremner after his debut
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I think the biggest influencing factor in Randy's relationship with the club was that he lost interest.
Wasn't there some talk about him meeting some woman just after he got divorced, and her not liking his football quirk?
Anyway, that's the thing I don't think I will be able to forgive him for. Yes, he spent lots of money, and I am having none of that "OMG! HE'S IN IT FOR THE MONEY!" moronic nonsense, but sometimes it is not just about money.
Most of the last three or four years has been about an increasing lack of interest combined with a continuing incompetence.
I think this is the year we're going down, which will be quite the achievement, spending that much money on a club then managing to fuck it up so badly, you actually get relegated, something even Ellis managed to avoid in the Sky era (not revisionism BTW, Dave is right about Ellis's "achievements" with the 82 side).
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Pauline, do you remember Ellis wanting the removal of Sir Ron ?
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Pauline, do you remember Ellis wanting the removal of Sir Ron ?
If you mean Saunders, it was quite obvious that if he'd won in 1979 the manager would have gone the day after. The letter he sent to shareholders talked about a sinking ship and the captain. A shareholder of the time told me that Saunders came round his house to ask who he'd be voting for.
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In the same way Lambert has got off lightly because he isn't McLeish the same applies to Randy because he isn't Doug.
Doug made some awful decisions because of ego, Randy appears to be making decisions based on apathy.
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In the same way Lambert has got off lightly because he isn't McLeish the same applies to Randy because he isn't Doug.
Doug made some awful decisions because of ego, Randy appears to be making decisions based on apathy.
I was going to totally agree with that but I think the apathy as you call it is more like being worn down with his personal problems and the clubs problems. As comparisons with Doug are being made I would say he lacks Doug's thick skin and ability to take a punch and get back up again. Possibly due to their different backgrounds and how they got rich.
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In the same way Lambert has got off lightly because he isn't McLeish the same applies to Randy because he isn't Doug.
Doug made some awful decisions because of ego, Randy appears to be making decisions based on apathy.
I was going to totally agree with that but I think the apathy as you call it is more like being worn down with his personal problems and the clubs problems. As comparisons with Doug are being made I would say he lacks Doug's thick skin and ability to take a punch and get back up again. Possibly due to their different backgrounds and how they got rich.
That's a good point. I think Randy sets a lot of store by loyalty (hence being affected by O'Neill walking out) and he's also not suited to the high profile of being a club chairman. Doug used to take the criticism/abuse but he was a firm believer in the adage of what's worse than being talked about.
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SH, is there any chance you can stop being so obtuse and actually say what you are so obviously implying?
If you think that Dave is refusing to criticise Lerner (even though he does actually criticise Lerner!) because he is on the payroll or something then just come out and bloody say it, at least then it will be in the open and you can stop sniping.
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Both men have made mistakes, but at least Ellis would front up and face the music, as opposed to fleeing back to America and hiding like Lerner has.
Its a shame that proud history, bright future scarf he gave us cant be used as a contract, as I'd sue him for breach of contract.
Exactly. Ellis for all his faults faces the music and never hid like Lerner does and continues to do.
So it's ok for LTA to criticize Lerner but not ok for another poster not to criticize him? What the fuck is all that about? How about growing up a bit?
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In the same way Lambert has got off lightly because he isn't McLeish the same applies to Randy because he isn't Doug.
Doug made some awful decisions because of ego, Randy appears to be making decisions based on apathy.
I was going to totally agree with that but I think the apathy as you call it is more like being worn down with his personal problems and the clubs problems. As comparisons with Doug are being made I would say he lacks Doug's thick skin and ability to take a punch and get back up again. Possibly due to their different backgrounds and how they got rich.
That's a good point. I think Randy sets a lot of store by loyalty (hence being affected by O'Neill walking out) and he's also not suited to the high profile of being a club chairman. Doug used to take the criticism/abuse but he was a firm believer in the adage of what's worse than being talked about.
Apathy may not be the right word but there appears to be a reluctance, where as Doug seemed to like taking decisions even if the were bad ones.
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Ellis bought Cascarino instead of Sheringham as Graham Taylor told him too.
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It makes me laugh at some of the ridiculous comments made against Lerner, often by the same people that think we should be following the Southampton model. I wonder when was the last time the Saints fans complained Katharina Liebherr hardly attends St Mary's?
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It makes me laugh at some of the ridiculous comments made against Lerner, often by the same people that think we should be following the Southampton model. I wonder when was the last time the Saints fans complained Katharina Liebherr hardly attends St Mary's?
They were pretty pissed off at the start of the season after they had flogged all their bright lights - wasn't there talk that she wanted to sell the club?
And yet, with a decent new manager and some sensible reinvestment they are flying.
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It makes me laugh at some of the ridiculous comments made against Lerner, often by the same people that think we should be following the Southampton model. I wonder when was the last time the Saints fans complained Katharina Liebherr hardly attends St Mary's?
It's just one of those irrelevancies like people who complain about Lambert's accent. There are so many real things to take issue with, why bother with such minutiae.
If he put the right people in place to run things properly then I don't think anybody would be bothered if he decided that he never wanted to watch a match at Villa Park again.
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It makes me laugh at some of the ridiculous comments made against Lerner, often by the same people that think we should be following the Southampton model. I wonder when was the last time the Saints fans complained Katharina Liebherr hardly attends St Mary's?
It's just one of those irrelevancies like people who complain about Lambert's accent. There are so many real things to take issue with, why bother with such minutiae.
If he put the right people in place to run things properly then I don't think anybody would be bothered if he decided that he never wanted to watch a match at Villa Park again.
Exactly. For the best part of the 70's we never really cared who was the owner of the club as we had the right manager in place and the football, especially at Villa Park, was a joy to watch. Only when the manager was challenged did people start to care about the owners.
As I said the other day, the most important individual at any football club is the manager. Get that appointment right and the rest will take care of itself.
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Owners are like referees, you only really give a damn about them when they're really shit.
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Owners are like referees, you only really give a damn about them when they're really shit.
Spot on. The daughter of the previous Southampton owner has been previously mentioned and she is a prime example. Apparently she didn't have a clue and didn't care and the club was going to suffer if she stayed. Now they are doing well she just doesn't get a mention one way or the other.
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Exactly. For the best part of the 70's we never really cared who was the owner of the club as we had the right manager in place and the football, especially at Villa Park, was a joy to watch. Only when the manager was challenged did people start to care about the owners.
As I said the other day, the most important individual at any football club is the manager. Get that appointment right and the rest will take care of itself.
That's not strictly true. Throughout the seventies the Villa's ownership was a hotly-disputed topic because there were several boardroom battles, two EGMS, four chairmen and a biggest shareholder who came from nowhere although the position of the manger was the main argument in the biggest battle of the lot. It's true, though, that nobody really cares what the owner says or does when the team's doing well.