Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: MonsXI on October 20, 2012, 08:28:19 PM
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Are these people for real?
Yes it's frustrating maybe even annoying but why would anyone be saying this shite? Not just one or two but facebook/twitter has seen a lot of people calling for Lamberts head already!
One good thing is I don't need to bother watching MOTD and can watch a film or fire up Fifa :)
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Are these people for real?
Answer: I doubt it
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Hardly worth mentioning .
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Haha people really are pillocks, although thats platform facebook and twitter has given to people that can't hold a conversation.
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No of course not. I dont blame people for being frustrated though. We have been terrible points wise.
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Can I just say I'm already calling for the manager after Lambert to be sacked.
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Can I just say I'm already calling for the manager after Lambert to be sacked.
I'm being counter-intuitive and demanding that we stick with O'Leary.
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Has anybody asked for Lambert to be sacked?
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No point sacking the manager, it's the team that are awful, not him.
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As the proud inventor of the concept of preemptive booing, I would like to take this opportunity to launch the idea of outlawing any mention of Twattery and Fuckbucking on this venerable site.
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Twitter and Facebook are like the realm of Narnia.
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Jeez - we have been on the slide for three years - not Lambert's fault!
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We should sack him though, just in case. Plus it will get us some media coverage thus heightening our profile.
I still want Ole - remember Herrings & Vikings ?
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Can I just say I'm already calling for the manager after Lambert to be sacked.
At this rate the bookies will be touting Harry redknapp- I'm happy to give lambert time to sort things out but we need a win against Norwich or we will really be in trouble.
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I'm shaking my head, fickle or what?
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I'm shaking my head, fickle or what?
We're not fickle, we just don't like anybody.
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I'm shaking my head, fickle or what?
We're not fickle, we just don't like anybody.
Very true
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Ellis in.
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our situation is nothing to do with Lambert, he just got the hospital pass
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Fuck off. Who's gonna replace him?
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Fuck off. Who's gonna replace him?
I wouldn't mind seeing Barry Fry giving it a shot.
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Fuck off. Who's gonna replace him?
I wouldn't mind seeing Barry Fry being shot.
fixed
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There was no issue in the away end as PL's claret and blue army was sung during the first half for about 10 minutes non stop.
End of the day though if that was McLeish in charge today, he would be rightfully getting panned for that performance. Hardly any shots on target and dubious football played throughout against a Fulham team imo weaker than last season when we got 4 points off them.
Lambert needs to start with a win against his former club next week and a point at Sunderland otherwise with the fixtures we have coming up after we could be bottom of this league in a few weeks time.
As we saw with Norwich today, we can't just keep assuming the teams below us will keep losing forever.
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Did somebody just mention Harry Redknapp. On here?????? NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Lambert out and Fat Sam in!!!!!!!!!!!
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Lambert out and Fat Sam in!!!!!!!!!!!
Will you feckin behave FFS. We will be fine, just taking time, 9 games ?????
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Lambert out and Fat Sam in!!!!!!!!!!!
Will you feckin behave FFS. We will be fine, just taking time, 9 games ?????
Big Fat Sam's Claret and Blue Army does have a ring about it.
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Lambert out and Fat Sam in!!!!!!!!!!!
Not even in jest.
Sacking Paul Lambert at the moment would be a bit mental, but if we're cut adrift in a couple of months, not so. I'd expect us to beat Norwich and then get a couple of drawers and some nerves to be settled.
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Lambert out and Fat Sam in!!!!!!!!!!!
Will you feckin behave FFS. We will be fine, just taking time, 9 games ?????
Big Fat Sam's Claret and Blue Army does have a ring about it.
No it does not, at all.
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Drawers? Freud, c'mere.
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Drawers? Freud, c'mere.
French fuck. We will be fine at the end of this season,just.
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its more likely the guy will walk if this continues to circumvent the sort of TSM/DOL opprobrium he knows will be coming his way and to protect his reputation as a bright, vibrant forward thinking young coach.
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I think lambert should and will be given time to sort things, I wonder if Harry would have been on randys radar though had he been sacked a month earlier and been available when we were managerless.
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Fuck off. Who's gonna replace him?
Douglas Ellis returns as director of football with Graham Taylor as manger and Paul Merson as player coach and than all our problems will go away.
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Did somebody just mention Harry Redknapp. On here?????? NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
He wouldn't come anyway.
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Did somebody just mention Harry Redknapp. On here?????? NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
He wouldn't come anyway.
Tottenham is as far north as he ever worked - cockney git.
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I'd rather be relegated than cheer for one of that crooked wankers teams.
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I'd rather be relegated than cheer for one of that crooked wankers teams.
Well we may get to see that this season the way we're going.
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I never felt Les Reed was given a fair shot at Charlton.
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If by December we are bottom and crowds are plumetting - its got to be The Doc.
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Twitter and Facebook are like the realm of Narnia.
then I want Aslan as our new manager with the snow queen as assistant
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He's got a 30% win ratio with us, which pleasantly surprised me.
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His signings have been poor, none of them are ready to make an impact on the Premier League yet.
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We have to give him a full season, problem is, unless results start to arrive his position may become untenable as the fans frustrations are simmering just below the surface. A loss to Norwich and it will be getting serious for Paul Lambert.
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We have to give him a full season, problem is, unless results start to arrive his position may become untenable as the fans frustrations are simmering just below the surface. A loss to Norwich and it will be getting serious for Paul Lambert.
Agreed. The good thing is that on the other hand, a convincing win against Norwich will see the optimism return, I believe.
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We have to give him a full season, problem is, unless results start to arrive his position may become untenable as the fans frustrations are simmering just below the surface. A loss to Norwich and it will be getting serious for Paul Lambert.
We have to give him a full season, problem is, unless results start to arrive his position may become untenable as the fans frustrations are simmering just below the surface. A loss to Norwich Villa and it will be getting serious for Paul Lambert Chris Hughton.
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Agree if we can beat Norwich & Swindon it should give a lift to all.
Hughton has just beat arsenal so his position is fine for a few months now.
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His signings have been poor, none of them are ready to make an impact on the Premier League yet.
Surely Vlaar and KEA aren't 'poor'? In fact the only player I consider to look poor value for money is Benteke at present, but think he will improve.
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His signings have been poor, none of them are ready to make an impact on the Premier League yet.
Surely Vlaar and KEA aren't 'poor'? In fact the only player I consider to look poor value for money is Benteke at present, but think he will improve.
KEA keeps possession but goes sideways or backwards , we lack a cutting edge and someone who can go forward and create from midfield.
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His signings have been poor, none of them are ready to make an impact on the Premier League yet.
Surely Vlaar and KEA aren't 'poor'? In fact the only player I consider to look poor value for money is Benteke at present, but think he will improve.
Vlaar's cost us goals since he's been here and KEA seems to have perfected the art of sideways and backward passing at Villa. You must be watching a different Villa to me.
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The signings we've made are probably the best players we can attact in the sorry state we're in.
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The signings we've made are probably the best players we can attact in the sorry state we're in.
Probably. We won't pay the wages, so lower league and foreign players are probably the only option.
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Vlaar's cost us goals since he's been here and KEA seems to have perfected the art of sideways and backward passing at Villa. You must be watching a different Villa to me.
Possibly. Everything will be fine.
(http://theliberati.net/quaequamblog/wp-content/comical_ali.jpg)
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Harry Redknapp likes a budget for transfers and wages, so he would even go to the likes of Stoke before Villa...
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I think Vlaar will get better. I like him. He's got mistakes in him but hopefully the more he settles, the better he'll get. In truth, he could have done with bedding in alongside some experienced. He has to come into the EPL and jump into leading a backline of young, inexperienced kids. That doesn't help.
Dunne could help when he gets back, though in truth, IMO he's well, well past his best.
KEA I think is decent. IMO he's probably our only decent midfielder. The rest aren't (yet, or never will be) prem quality.
Attacking midfielders, Ireland and NZog are too inconsistent. Their attitudes and their temperaments aren't good enough for us. Holman I really like because of his attitude and endeavour, however he'll never be able to carry the creative torch by himself. He's more like the industry who counters for a mercurial spark elsewhere in midfield. The trouble for KEA is that our midfield is set up in a way that you have to have two decent centre mids running the show. He doesn't have anyone good enough alongside. In that respect, we need to switch to a 3 man CM. KEA is a tidy player. He'll keep the ball well but he's not gonna create a lot of goals or score many. He's not a defensive mid either. He's more like Carrick. He's a connective player. He keeps it moving, ticking along nicely. Then it's up to the attacking players to create and score.
Lambert, given time will come good. Even if we go down, I wouldn't want us to get rid because I think he'd build us into a better side when we go back up.
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Lambert, given time will come good. Even if we go down, I wouldn't want us to get rid because I think he'd build us into a better side when we go back up.
Going down would be a disaster, and if Lambert is the man to do it he should be put on the next one way NASA mission to Mars. Even that idiot McLeish didn't manage to relegate us, and Lambert has spent £20m with no significant departures.
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Lambert, given time will come good. Even if we go down, I wouldn't want us to get rid because I think he'd build us into a better side when we go back up.
Going down would be a disaster, and if Lambert is the man to do it he should be put on the next one way NASA mission to Mars. Even that idiot McLeish didn't manage to relegate us, and Lambert has spent £20m with no significant departures.
If we go down the blame will lie at lerners feet, he has made a total shambles of the job in the last 3 years.
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Agreed Eastie, but to be fair he gave Lambert £20m, which although not enough to repair the damage that has been done for the last three years, should have been enough to at least make a big difference to last year. Lambert gambled it all on lots of very average players though, when he'd probably have been better buying two or three very good players.
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Agreed Eastie, but to be fair he gave Lambert £20m, which although not enough to repair the damage that has been done for the last three years, should have been enough to at least make a big difference to last year. Lambert gambled it all on lots of very average players though, when he'd probably have been better buying two or three very good players.
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Fair point risso, many clubs in the premier have spent less this summer than us.
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we lack a cutting edge and someone who can go forward and create from midfield.
This. We're not making enough chances.
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Agreed Eastie, but to be fair he gave Lambert £20m, which although not enough to repair the damage that has been done for the last three years, should have been enough to at least make a big difference to last year. Lambert gambled it all on lots of very average players though, when he'd probably have been better buying two or three very good players.
The trouble is we may well pay the transfer fees but we won't pay the wages, which is why we're shopping in the lower leagues. Lerner clearly doesn't want anyone at the club on top wages. Hence the departure of our best players and the arrival of Championship ones.
It's a recipe for disaster.
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Agreed Eastie, but to be fair he gave Lambert £20m, which although not enough to repair the damage that has been done for the last three years, should have been enough to at least make a big difference to last year. Lambert gambled it all on lots of very average players though, when he'd probably have been better buying two or three very good players.
The trouble is we may well pay the transfer fees but we won't pay the wages, which is why we're shopping in the lower leagues. Lerner clearly doesn't want anyone at the club on top wages. Hence the departure of our best players and the arrival of Championship ones.
It's a recipe for disaster.
Yes it is a recipe for disaster but I expect while Lerner will eventually sell up and move on we will all be left to pick up the pieces of the utter mess he's made of our club.
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sack him. Get Kenny in .
whats Guardiola up to , I am still convinced he would turn Hutton into Cafu . Pep . come on , you know you want to.
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His signings have been poor, none of them are ready to make an impact on the Premier League yet.
Surely Vlaar and KEA aren't 'poor'? In fact the only player I consider to look poor value for money is Benteke at present, but think he will improve.
You're right, they're not poor. But we needed improvements on Dunne and Stan, and we didn't get them.
For all the signings we've made his biggest mistake hasn't been bringing in some experience. It's a bit of a MON signing (and the type we're trying to get away from) but I think the Benteke money may have been better spent on someone like Charlie Adam.
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I quite like the manager. However, if he keeps playing Delph over Bannan I might start getting a bit peed off.
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I'd be peed off if Bannan gets back in.
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His signings have been poor, none of them are ready to make an impact on the Premier League yet.
Surely Vlaar and KEA aren't 'poor'? In fact the only player I consider to look poor value for money is Benteke at present, but think he will improve.
You're right, they're not poor. But we needed improvements on Dunne and Stan, and we didn't get them.
For all the signings we've made his biggest mistake hasn't been bringing in some experience. It's a bit of a MON signing (and the type we're trying to get away from) but I think the Benteke money may have been better spent on someone like Charlie Adam.
Adam is fucking useless as evidenced when Wales played Scotland. I'd rather we spent the money on Benteke as I believe he'll come good and Adam will only continue to go downhill.
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Agreed Eastie, but to be fair he gave Lambert £20m, which although not enough to repair the damage that has been done for the last three years, should have been enough to at least make a big difference to last year. Lambert gambled it all on lots of very average players though, when he'd probably have been better buying two or three very good players.
The trouble is we may well pay the transfer fees but we won't pay the wages, which is why we're shopping in the lower leagues. Lerner clearly doesn't want anyone at the club on top wages. Hence the departure of our best players and the arrival of Championship ones.
It's a recipe for disaster.
Yes it is a recipe for disaster but I expect while Lerner will eventually sell up and move on we will all be left to pick up the pieces of the utter mess he's made of our club.
We, the fans, are always left to pick up the pieces whoever has been in charge.
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His signings have been poor, none of them are ready to make an impact on the Premier League yet.
Surely Vlaar and KEA aren't 'poor'? In fact the only player I consider to look poor value for money is Benteke at present, but think he will improve.
You're right, they're not poor. But we needed improvements on Dunne and Stan, and we didn't get them.
For all the signings we've made his biggest mistake hasn't been bringing in some experience. It's a bit of a MON signing (and the type we're trying to get away from) but I think the Benteke money may have been better spent on someone like Charlie Adam.
Adam is fucking useless as evidenced when Wales played Scotland. I'd rather we spent the money on Benteke as I believe he'll come good and Adam will only continue to go downhill.
I like the look of Benteke, but we didn't need him. The lack of quality in midfield is astonishing. We have one of the worst midfields in the league. We don't make chances, hold on to the ball or prevent chances against us.
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Agreed Eastie, but to be fair he gave Lambert £20m, which although not enough to repair the damage that has been done for the last three years, should have been enough to at least make a big difference to last year. Lambert gambled it all on lots of very average players though, when he'd probably have been better buying two or three very good players.
The trouble is we may well pay the transfer fees but we won't pay the wages, which is why we're shopping in the lower leagues. Lerner clearly doesn't want anyone at the club on top wages. Hence the departure of our best players and the arrival of Championship ones.
It's a recipe for disaster.
Yes it is a recipe for disaster but I expect while Lerner will eventually sell up and move on we will all be left to pick up the pieces of the utter mess he's made of our club.
What utter mess are you on about? I did'nt realise we'd been relegated and in adminstration?
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Agreed Eastie, but to be fair he gave Lambert £20m, which although not enough to repair the damage that has been done for the last three years, should have been enough to at least make a big difference to last year. Lambert gambled it all on lots of very average players though, when he'd probably have been better buying two or three very good players.
The trouble is we may well pay the transfer fees but we won't pay the wages, which is why we're shopping in the lower leagues. Lerner clearly doesn't want anyone at the club on top wages. Hence the departure of our best players and the arrival of Championship ones.
It's a recipe for disaster.
Yes it is a recipe for disaster but I expect while Lerner will eventually sell up and move on we will all be left to pick up the pieces of the utter mess he's made of our club.
What utter mess are you on about? I did'nt realise we'd been relegated and in adminstration?
You don't need to be in administration clampy- if you cannot see the mess we are in then I suggest you visit an optician, our squad is very weak, lacking quality and experience and we have slipped backwards in the last 3 seasons alarmingly- if you think everything under Lerner is hunky dory then please tell me where I can get what you are drinking clampy!
As for lambert our only hope is to back him and give him the cash in January - he's walked into this mess- the blame lies with Lerner.
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Read the title and was coming on here to vent my spleen at the idiots suggesting it
The noise for Lambert from the away end yesterday spoke volumes for the support for his Claret and Blue army. Villa fans are in unison together and were a lot more exciting, we will click together, sooner or later
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We should have kept singing it through half time like we did at Highfield Road.
Only a bellend would want Lambert sacked.
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Agreed Eastie, but to be fair he gave Lambert £20m, which although not enough to repair the damage that has been done for the last three years, should have been enough to at least make a big difference to last year. Lambert gambled it all on lots of very average players though, when he'd probably have been better buying two or three very good players.
The trouble is we may well pay the transfer fees but we won't pay the wages, which is why we're shopping in the lower leagues. Lerner clearly doesn't want anyone at the club on top wages. Hence the departure of our best players and the arrival of Championship ones.
It's a recipe for disaster.
Yes it is a recipe for disaster but I expect while Lerner will eventually sell up and move on we will all be left to pick up the pieces of the utter mess he's made of our club.
What utter mess are you on about? I did'nt realise we'd been relegated and in adminstration?
You don't need to be in administration clampy- if you cannot see the mess we are in then I suggest you visit an optician, our squad is very weak, lacking quality and experience and we have slipped backwards in the last 3 seasons alarmingly- if you think everything under Lerner is hunky dory then please tell me where I can get what you are drinking clampy!
Did i say things were 'hunky dory'? Of course it's not great at the moment and we looked very poor yesterday and three games apart, have looked poor for most of the season but the club's hardly an 'utter mess'. It's easy to point the finger at Randy when we're not going well but he employed the manager most fans wanted after the Mcleish debacle and we need to give the bloke time.
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Of course lambert has to be given both time and money to turn things around- it is a huge job on his hands to rebuild the squad and halt the decline at he club and I'm sure we all hope it works out well for him.
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If we had any ambition at all we'd get Fat Sam with Pulis as his assistant. Money no object to get the dream team in.
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Read the title and was coming on here to vent my spleen at the idiots suggesting it
The noise for Lambert from the away end yesterday spoke volumes for the support for his Claret and Blue army. Villa fans are in unison together and were a lot more exciting, we will click together, sooner or later
Just make sure we alter our settings in profile.
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Of course lambert has to be given both time and money to turn things around- it is a huge job on his hands to rebuild the squad and halt the decline at he club and I'm sure we all hope it works out well for him.
So it's gone from an 'utter mess' to a decline. Glad you cleared that up.
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The club is in decline and Lerner had made an utter mess of the last 3 years of his ownership with mistake after mistake- that clear enough clampy ?
I know how much you think randy is the bees knees but wake up and smell the roses - he's not!
Then again you still harp on about how great the mon era was , its taken you years to see that mon wasn't the bees knees either.
Sorry if you are upset about me criticising the great mr Lerner but I call it as I see it mate.
Sorry but "the emperor has no clothes " clamps!
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Then again you still harp on about how great the mon era was , its taken you years to see that mon wasn't the bees knees either.
I think you'll find i have'nt mentioned MON for a very long time, unlike youself on the 'Depressing' thread not only a few hours ago where funnily enough you are saying how things were not that bad under him and 'careful what you wish for' was the phrase i believe you used.
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Then again you still harp on about how great the mon era was , its taken you years to see that mon wasn't the bees knees either.
I think you'll find i have'nt mentioned MON for a very long time, unlike youself on the 'Depressing' thread not only a few hours ago where funnily enough you are saying how things were not that bad under him and 'careful what you wish for' was the phrase i believe you used.
The big mistake Lerner made was appointing houllier when mon left
O Neill had run his course and it was time he left , he under achieved with the cash at his disposal but in comparison to the current team of course things were much better with the likes of Barry, Milner Laursen,young ,downing , etc all firing.
None of us is happy with things at the moment and lambert needs time and support to change things- I still firmly blame mr Lerner for the mess over the last 3 years and I guess I will not convince you he is not the bees knees.
Enjoy your evening clampy and let's hope next weekend we are celebrating a win!
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I blame O'Neill.
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I blame O'Neill.
Even for the mess made by houllier ,Lerner, and Mcleish?
O Neill wasted a fortune and it was time he left but he is by no means to blame for everything that's happened since he left.
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He was the start of it all. His legacy is the cause of where we are now.
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Then again you still harp on about how great the mon era was , its taken you years to see that mon wasn't the bees knees either.
I think you'll find i have'nt mentioned MON for a very long time, unlike youself on the 'Depressing' thread not only a few hours ago where funnily enough you are saying how things were not that bad under him and 'careful what you wish for' was the phrase i believe you used.
O Neill had run his course and it was time he left , he under achieved with the cash at his disposal but in comparison to the current team of course things were much better with the likes of Barry, Milner Laursen,young ,downing , etc all firing.
None of us is happy with things at the moment and lambert needs time and support to change things- I still firmly blame mr Lerner for the mess over the last 3 years and I guess I will not convince you he is not the bees knees.
Enjoy your evening clampy and let's he next weekend we are celebrating a win!
Christ, i heard the backtracking from here and i'm nowhere near Coventry.
I've never said Lerner is the 'bees knees' either. Along with Hunky Dory, you seem to be putting words into my mouth today. I just disagreed with your term that we are in a 'utter mess' that's all. It's poor on the pitch but that's up to Lambert to put right and Randy giving him some more money to spend in January.
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He was the start of it all. His legacy is the cause of where we are now.
Sort of like Thatcher, if you will. Or Gordon Brown, if you prefer
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What mess did Houllier actually leave us in? He left us in 9th, sold no one of note and left us with Bent, the kind of player we've said we've wanted for years.
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What mess did Houllier actually leave us in? He left us in 9th, sold no one of note and left us with Bent, the kind of player we've said we've wanted for years.
We finished 9th with Mcallister at the helm, when houllier took Ill we were deep in trouble fighting relegation.
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What mess did Houllier actually leave us in? He left us in 9th, sold no one of note and left us with Bent, the kind of player we've said we've wanted for years.
We finished 9th with Mcallister at the helm, when houllier took Ill we were deep in trouble fighting relegation.
So he didn't leave us in a mess then?
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I was'nt a Houiller fan to be honest but it's unfair to say he left us in a mess. His signings were actually very good but the players did'nt seem to take to him and maybe management had passed him by.
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He was the start of it all. His legacy is the cause of where we are now.
I think that's getting a bit lame now to be honest. O'Neill's transfer policy was mediocre but it was approved by the owner. His departure came at the worst possible time but nobody other than the owner can be blamed for subsequently appointing Houllier and McLeish. Equally, nobody but the owner is responsible for selling our best players and not replacing them adequately.
O'Neill left us with a lot of problems to solve but the leadership and management of the club since he left has been so bad as to make those problems even worse.
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I blame the romans.
But really, we are blaming Lerner? Jesus. How much money does he have to pump into this club before we give the bloke a break?
And no Lambert should not leave, he is our long term solution and so is Randy.
Faulkner? He seems more interested in pissing around with the FA or looking good hiring some anti corruption bloke to train with the kids or putting god embarrassing flamethrowers on the pitch or lasses rolling around in hamster balls at half time. That kind of shite we could do with cutting out and focusing on the damn football.
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What mess did Houllier actually leave us in? He left us in 9th, sold no one of note and left us with Bent, the kind of player we've said we've wanted for years.
Were we not battling relegation without a win in god knows how long when he last managed us?
Do you think he did a good job and should have been appointed ?
Do you remember the cup game at man city and thd the a field surrender?
We finished 9th with Mcallister at the helm, when houllier took Ill we were deep in trouble fighting relegation.
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Houllier and Mcleish were poor appointments, this time I think lambert was a good choice and will be in it for the long haul- it is a huge job to turn around our fortunes and I wish him well.
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I blame the romans.
But really, we are blaming Lerner? Jesus. How much money does he have to pump into this club before we give the bloke a break?
And no Lambert should not leave, he is our long term solution and so is Randy.
Faulkner? He seems more interested in pissing around with the FA or looking good hiring some anti corruption bloke to train with the kids or putting god embarrassing flamethrowers on the pitch or lasses rolling around in hamster balls at half time. That kind of shite we could do with cutting out and focusing on the damn football.
And who appointed Faulkner? Yes it was mr Lerner.
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Houllier was potentially a good appointment but it unfortunately did not work out. McLeish was the biggest mistake in the history of managerial appointments worldwide and was definitely the wrong person in the wrong place at the wrong time. Time will tell for Lambert and he has my full support.
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We'd taken 7 points out of 9 and lost 3 of the last 12. He had to sort out the mess left by MON, shit players on massive contracts draining money out the club. Plus as we found out, a number of players with attitude problems. He also had the worst run of injuries I can remember down the Villa. And yes, I remember City in the cup and it still pisses me off. Do you remember Moscow?
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The only thing i would say in Houiller's defence is that the injury list he had to contend with was horrendous. It was a strange appointment but you could see what he was trying to do.
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We'd taken 7 points out of 9 and lost 2 of the last 8. He had to sort out the mess left by MON, shit players on massive contracts draining money out the club. Plus as we found out, a number of players with attitude problems. And yes, I remember City in the cup and it still pisses me off. Do you remember Moscow?
Certainly I do, Moscow was o Neil's big mistake , a disgrace when people had travelled so far to see such a weakened side- unforgivable.! Along with several poor signings on crazy wages.
I agree mon left a mess behind him but I don't think houllier should have been given the job - he was a poor choice in my opinion but not as poor as Mcleish.
This time I think we nearly all agree lambert is the right man for the job .
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So again, what mess were we in when he left that was due to him? City in the cup aside, we were starting to get results, it was actually 3 defeats in the last 12 in the league before he was taken ill.
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The club is in decline and Lerner had made an utter mess of the last 3 years of his ownership with mistake after mistake- that clear enough clampy ?
I know how much you think randy is the bees knees but wake up and smell the roses - he's not!
Then again you still harp on about how great the mon era was , its taken you years to see that mon wasn't the bees knees either.
Sorry if you are upset about me criticising the great mr Lerner but I call it as I see it mate.
Sorry but "the emperor has no clothes " clamps!
He inherited a squad that didn't want to play for AV any more, he had a plan for the next season to get rid of trouble makers like Collins and Dunne and if it wasn't for ill health then he may still be here and I think he would have bulit something. He'd already got a great buy in Bent.
McLeish was a poor move, but we survived (just) and he learned a very valuable lesson and made sure they got the right man this time. The mistakes Randy made was giving O'neill all the money in the world, when he said enoughs enough O'neill threw his toys out and left us in the lurch and were still recovering from this. Were only a signing or two back to top half side, this club is not in a complete mess. Were 8 games into a new regime and signings are still coming together wheras last seasons players are getting used to a new style of football.
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Of course Lerner has made mistakes. Appointing Mcleish was one, letting MON give players ludricous contracts was another. I'm not going to knock him for the amount of money he's put into this club and he still does. If the wage bill needed to come down and needs to be maintained, then so be it.
It's all too easy to go down the Eastie route and blame Chairman, Faulkner and past managers every time we have a bad run.
Fuck it, i blame Venglos.
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Houllier was potentially a good appointment but it unfortunately did not work out. McLeish was the biggest mistake in the history of managerial appointments worldwide and was definitely the wrong person in the wrong place at the wrong time. Time will tell for Lambert and he has my full support.
Houllier was hired despite having a history of serious health problems and left 9 months later because he had serious health problems. It was a very poor appointment, especially considering what we desperately needed at that point was stability.
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Wasnt Houllier just a panic appointment in the end. That's they way I see it after several candidates had "ruled themselves out".
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There was an air of panic about the appointments of both Houllier and McLeish.
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There was an air of panic about the appointments of both Houllier and McLeish.
Th scary thing is that there was no panic about appointing McLeish.
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There was an air of panic about the appointments of both Houllier and McLeish.
Th scary thing is that there was no panic about appointing McLeish.
That is scary. I haven't met anyone who thought that was a good appointment and unless I meet Lerner, Faulkner or McLeish I'm not likely to.
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There was an air of panic about the appointments of both Houllier and McLeish.
Th scary thing is that there was no panic about appointing McLeish.
That is scary. I haven't met anyone who thought that was a good appointment and unless I meet Lerner, Faulkner or McLeish I'm not likely to.
I'd like to think that at least two of those have realised the error of their ways.
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There was an air of panic about the appointments of both Houllier and McLeish.
Th scary thing is that there was no panic about appointing McLeish.
That is scary. I haven't met anyone who thought that was a good appointment and unless I meet Lerner, Faulkner or McLeish I'm not likely to.
I'd like to think that at least two of those have realised the error of their ways.
Well, it cost Lerner a pretty penny, and I don't suppose McLeish enjoyed his time with us. Faulkner though, still seems to think that it was a fair decision at the time.
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Hilts, ciggies and clampy jointly summarize my views.
If there is a theme running through our post-Ellis period it is that those running the club, and I include the owner in part in that group,. they were all learning on the job.
The two kinds of people we have most needed at VP in the post-Ellis period are football men (or women) running the show and not flim flam football virgins who as ciggies points out, think we want flame throwers and giant plastic football races at half time and ear drum shattering PA bawling about getting behind the team. It is all so amateur and silly.
The other sort of people we need are creative midfielders. We are inadequate in the middle third of the pitch and have been for three years. The results scream out for a Kevin Richardson, a Ray Houghton, a Paul Merson or a fit and healthy Stan.
In short we need a football brain in Faulkner's place and a football brain in Delph, Bannan, Holman, KEA's place.
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I was'nt a Houiller fan to be honest but it's unfair to say he left us in a mess. His signings were actually very good but the players did'nt seem to take to him and maybe management had passed him by.
Pires?
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I was'nt a Houiller fan to be honest but it's unfair to say he left us in a mess. His signings were actually very good but the players did'nt seem to take to him and maybe management had passed him by.
Pires?
Probably the best free agent we could get as the window was shut.
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I was'nt a Houiller fan to be honest but it's unfair to say he left us in a mess. His signings were actually very good but the players did'nt seem to take to him and maybe management had passed him by.
Pires?
We signed Pires short-term at a time when we scarcely had the numbers for a five a side and there was no-one else available. There's not much difference between him and loaning Gabor Kiraly.
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I was'nt a Houiller fan to be honest but it's unfair to say he left us in a mess. His signings were actually very good but the players did'nt seem to take to him and maybe management had passed him by.
Pires?
I'd forgot about him. In fairness, he was a free and brought in when our injury list was huge.
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Let's hope we see the return of Robbie Keane.
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In fairness to houllier I agree that the injury list was very bad and I may have judged him a bit harshly , but I still feel he was a poor appointment and his man management skills left a lot to be desired.
May have been more suited to head scout or director of football than a hands on coaching role, or even an experienced head on the board to give guidance to Faulkner and lerner .
Back to the ,main subject of lambert, I think he needs one or two experienced quality midfielders in January , it's a pity we appeared to miss out in benayoun as he would have added creativity and experience.
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Lambert is still trying to gel players together. I think by playing Benteke-Bent and Baker instead of Clarke will make a big difference with a now fit Ireland. Think things will turn around after a home win against Norwich ........
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Lambert is still trying to gel players together. I think by playing Benteke-Bent and Baker instead of Clarke will make a big difference with a now fit Ireland. Think things will turn around after a home win against Norwich ........
Was very impressed by baker yesterday, I hope his injury isn't too bad as it looked a nasty one.
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Lambert has been in the job 10mins and people are already on his back. Even Mcleish had longer than this.
Lambert is building a squad for the future. What use is a quick fix?? Eventually more cracks will appear than were there in the first place!
He is bringing his the types of players he would like to build a squad round: young, hungry and in it for the football.
As for Learner he is trying to stabilise the club so it can continue and not spiral into administration etc. As for wanting him out as well, how can you guarantee that we will get a man city-esq owner who will buy our way to the top, we could just as easily end up like Blackburn!!
I'm not naive in thinking we are absolutely fine and we have no worries whatsoever. But to call for the manager and owners head is just fickle. We will come good, have faith. You can see that by the quality of the football being played now, we just need to be patient!
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Lambert has been in the job 10mins and people are already on his back. Even Mcleish had longer than this.
Lambert is building a squad for the future. What use is a quick fix?? Eventually more cracks will appear than were there in the first place!
He is bringing his the types of players he would like to build a squad round: young, hungry and in it for the football.
As for Learner he is trying to stabilise the club so it can continue and not spiral into administration etc. As for wanting him out as well, how can you guarantee that we will get a man city-esq owner who will buy our way to the top, we could just as easily end up like Blackburn!!
I'm not naive in thinking we are absolutely fine and we have no worries whatsoever. But to call for the manager and owners head is just fickle. We will come good, have faith. You can see that by the quality of the football being played now, we just need to be patient!
I think you've misunderstood the point of this forum. First posts are supposed to be asking for tickets and stuff, not arguing rational and well-thought out points.
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If we'd have played West Ham, Fulham, Spurs, Newcastle and Southampton at home, we'd be better off.
I strongly believe that we'll beat Norwich on Saturday and have a good opportunity of getting something at Sunderland.
We've been abject in a few games, especially away from home, but there are still a lot of positives and at least signs of doing something.
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My match report for Saturday's just been posted here: http://pickourteam.com/premierleague/aston-villa/fansverdict/20-10-2012/Fulham-vs-Aston%20Villa. It's a very angry snapshot in which Lambert doesn't come out too well. After a bit of thought, I'm more well-disposed towards our boss and don't feel he needs to go, but I think the points in the article are still valid, if a little rabid.
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I was'nt a Houiller fan to be honest but it's unfair to say he left us in a mess. His signings were actually very good but the players did'nt seem to take to him and maybe management had passed him by.
Pires?
I'd forgot about him. In fairness, he was a free and brought in when our injury list was huge.
Houllier was hoping that Pires would give us what Robbie Keane gave us a year later.
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I was'nt a Houiller fan to be honest but it's unfair to say he left us in a mess. His signings were actually very good but the players did'nt seem to take to him and maybe management had passed him by.
Pires?
I'd forgot about him. In fairness, he was a free and brought in when our injury list was huge.
Houllier was hoping that Pires would give us what Robbie Keane gave us a year later.
I don't even think that. We needed someone, anyone, and he was the best available.
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I was'nt a Houiller fan to be honest but it's unfair to say he left us in a mess. His signings were actually very good but the players did'nt seem to take to him and maybe management had passed him by.
Pires?
I'd forgot about him. In fairness, he was a free and brought in when our injury list was huge.
Houllier was hoping that Pires would give us what Robbie Keane gave us a year later.
I don't even think that. We needed someone, anyone, and he was the best available.
I can see the argument for getting him in, even if Crawley Town appeared to be the only other team interested in him. But it was immediately obvious that he was miles past his best, and yet we were chauffering him up and down the motorways to play in a good dozen games.
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That probably says more about the idiocy of modern football. Led Zeppelin c 1972 would have baulked at some of the demands of Premier League players.
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As for Learner he is trying to stabilise the club so it can continue and not spiral into administration etc. As for wanting him out as well, how can you guarantee that we will get a man city-esq owner who will buy our way to the top, we could just as easily end up like Blackburn!!
I'd be more inclined to believe that if his actions over the last two seasons had not actually decreased the stability of the club. I wouldn't want him to move on simply because I want someone with more money but I wouldn't be averse to him being replaced by someone with a better grasp of running a football club. And such a person would not be difficult to find. As paulie is wont to say, it's hard to see how Lerner et al could have made a bigger horlicks of the last two years if they'd tried.
Lambert has my full support and, frankly, it could take at least three seasons just to get us on an even keel again. But Lerner I'm now totally ambivalent about. The first three years he didn't put a foot wrong but as soon as he had some proper football decisions to make he revealed himself to be a well-meaning disaster area.
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Perhaps he was badly advised?
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Perhaps he was badly advised?
Badly advised once is understandable. Badly advised twice is not.
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Lerner might do better now he isn't weighed down with his responsibility to the Cleveland Browns.
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Lerner might do better now he isn't weighed down with his responsibility to the Cleveland Browns.
He's still got people like Faulkner working for him though. A man who thinks that the decision to appoint McLeish was only a bad one with the benefit of hindsight.
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It has been posted on here before, get rid of Faulkner and get someone in with a football brain before we have any more American shitty style half time entertainment ( in the bloody Championship)
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Lerner might do better now he isn't weighed down with his responsibility to the Cleveland Browns.
He's still got people like Faulkner working for him though. A man who thinks that the decision to appoint McLeish was only a bad one with the benefit of hindsight.
It seems to me that Faulkner is essentially an overseer of the business side of things and has little input into football decisions, I doubt it was his decision to appoint Mcleish and in defending it he's just sticking up for his boss and toeing the party line.
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Lerner might do better now he isn't weighed down with his responsibility to the Cleveland Browns.
He's still got people like Faulkner working for him though. A man who thinks that the decision to appoint McLeish was only a bad one with the benefit of hindsight.
It seems to me that Faulkner is essentially an overseer of the business side of things and has little input into football decisions, I doubt it was his decision to appoint Mcleish and in defending it he's just sticking up for his boss and toeing the party line.
You may be right chris but I feel we could do with an experienced football man on the board to help out Paul and randy.
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It seems to me that since the start of the Summer Lerner and Faulkner have been making the right decisions. Mcleish was sacked, Lambert appointed with Kaza and Culverhouse and so was a scouting coordinator for foreign players.
Why the need for another "football man"? Aren't the personnelle listed there enough?
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Lerner might do better now he isn't weighed down with his responsibility to the Cleveland Browns.
He's still got people like Faulkner working for him though. A man who thinks that the decision to appoint McLeish was only a bad one with the benefit of hindsight.
It seems to me that Faulkner is essentially an overseer of the business side of things and has little input into football decisions, I doubt it was his decision to appoint Mcleish and in defending it he's just sticking up for his boss and toeing the party line.
You may be right chris but I feel we could do with an experienced football man on the board to help out Paul and randy.
To do what, exactly? I don't like the concept of board room interference of in team matters, I'd rather allow a manager be allowed to do his job and sink or swim by his own decisions.
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It has been posted on here before, get rid of Faulkner and get someone in with a football brain before we have any more American shitty style half time entertainment ( in the bloody Championship)
Not having half-time entertainment being the prime reason to sack a CEO?
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It has been posted on here before, get rid of Faulkner and get someone in with a football brain before we have any more American shitty style half time entertainment ( in the bloody Championship)
Not having half-time entertainment being the prime reason to sack a CEO?
I think there's more than enough ammunition without that to be honest.
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Am I happy with the start to the season? No.
Do I still think Lambert is the right man for the job? Yes.
We'll be alright. Things will pick up and we'll be mid-table this season - and push on next.
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Am I happy with the start to the season? No.
Do I still think Lambert is the right man for the job? Yes.
I agree with that, but I do think that Lerner needs to make some more money available in January, and this time it shouldn't all be spent on lower division players. There's no point in scaling back our wage bill, if our turnover gets reduced by us getting relegated.
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Lerner might do better now he isn't weighed down with his responsibility to the Cleveland Browns.
He's still got people like Faulkner working for him though. A man who thinks that the decision to appoint McLeish was only a bad one with the benefit of hindsight.
It seems to me that Faulkner is essentially an overseer of the business side of things and has little input into football decisions, I doubt it was his decision to appoint Mcleish and in defending it he's just sticking up for his boss and toeing the party line.
You may be right chris but I feel we could do with an experienced football man on the board to help out Paul and randy.
To do what, exactly? I don't like the concept of board room interference of in team matters, I'd rather allow a manager be allowed to do his job and sink or swim by his own decisions.
Nothing to do with team affairs obviously, but to provide valuable experience of running a football club and advice. Someone like graham Taylor or houllier on the board would be an asset.
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Am I happy with the start to the season? No.
Do I still think Lambert is the right man for the job? Yes.
I agree with that, but I do think that Lerner needs to make some more money available in January, and this time it shouldn't all be spent on lower division players. There's no point in scaling back our wage bill, if our turnover gets reduced by us getting relegated.
But how do we know that buying "lower division players" is the wrong approach? - Lowton and Bennett have shown me enough to suggest that - given time - they will become very good EPL players.
not all the budget was spent on such players: we have brought in four internationals from the Dutch / Belgian leagues: they should be good enough to ensure our EPL status and then for us to build through next year.
In fact, PL has done exactly what people on here were clamouring for over the last two seasons: offload the expensive MON players and shop for bargains elsewhere.
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Am I happy with the start to the season? No.
Do I still think Lambert is the right man for the job? Yes.
I agree with that, but I do think that Lerner needs to make some more money available in January, and this time it shouldn't all be spent on lower division players. There's no point in scaling back our wage bill, if our turnover gets reduced by us getting relegated.
But how do we know that buying "lower division players" is the wrong approach? - Lowton and Bennett have shown me enough to suggest that - given time - they will become very good EPL players.
not all the budget was spent on such players: we have brought in four internationals from the Dutch / Belgian leagues: they should be good enough to ensure our EPL status and then for us to build through next year.
In fact, PL has done exactly what people on here were clamouring for over the last two seasons: offload the expensive MON players and shop for bargains elsewhere.
All of lamberts signings have shown they could be good acquisitions and I think maybe a couple of experienced heads in January would be ideal, I certainly am not concerned at the players lambert has bought in .
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I don't think any of them have shown that they're particularly good enough yet, and having half the team trying to get up to speed at the same time is what's lead us to our current position, ie our worst start for nearly 30 years.
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... and having half the team trying to get up to speed at the same time is what's lead us to our current position, ie our worst start for nearly 30 years.
True.
The issue is all about their ability to get up to speed in enough time to become mid-table rather than relegation fodder.
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It has been posted on here before, get rid of Faulkner and get someone in with a football brain before we have any more American shitty style half time entertainment ( in the bloody Championship)
Not having half-time entertainment being the prime reason to sack a CEO?
I think there's more than enough ammunition without that to be honest.
With everything and everyone so wrong I'm amazed the club still exists.
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It has been posted on here before, get rid of Faulkner and get someone in with a football brain before we have any more American shitty style half time entertainment ( in the bloody Championship)
Not having half-time entertainment being the prime reason to sack a CEO?
I think there's more than enough ammunition without that to be honest.
With everything and everyone so wrong I'm amazed the club still exists.
Didn't you hear? We've already been relegated and Bent is holding the club hostage.
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With everything and everyone so wrong I'm amazed the club still exists.
All I can say to that is if Randy's so marvellous and we're lucky to have him, how come the last two years have been like an explosion in a shit factory?
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It has been posted on here before, get rid of Faulkner and get someone in with a football brain before we have any more American shitty style half time entertainment ( in the bloody Championship)
Not having half-time entertainment being the prime reason to sack a CEO?
I think there's more than enough ammunition without that to be honest.
With everything and everyone so wrong I'm amazed the club still exists.
No you're right, everything at the club is just tickety-boo.
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With everything and everyone so wrong I'm amazed the club still exists.
All I can say to that is if Randy's so marvellous and we're lucky to have him, how come the last two years have been like an explosion in a shit factory?
No exaggeration there at all.
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With everything and everyone so wrong I'm amazed the club still exists.
All I can say to that is if Randy's so marvellous and we're lucky to have him, how come the last two years have been like an explosion in a shit factory?
No exaggeration there at all.
Ahem.
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With everything and everyone so wrong I'm amazed the club still exists.
All I can say to that is if Randy's so marvellous and we're lucky to have him, how come the last two years have been like an explosion in a shit factory?
Take a look at other clubs owners that don't give the manager money, time or get the club into serious debt. Randy is good, made 1 mistake, was a big mistake granted, but he's working towards making it better. Give him half a chance.
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Take a look at other clubs owners that don't give the manager money, time or get the club into serious debt. Randy is good, made 1 mistake, was a big mistake granted, but he's working towards making it better. Give him half a chance.
How many people have taken charge of the first team in the two and a bit years since O'Neill left?
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Take a look at other clubs owners that don't give the manager money, time or get the club into serious debt. Randy is good, made 1 mistake, was a big mistake granted, but he's working towards making it better. Give him half a chance.
How many people have taken charge of the first team in the two and a bit years since O'Neill left?
And this thread is called?
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They got found out when Pubehead fucked off, at the worst possible time, and took their football experience with him.
They have made errors, some terminally bloody stupid. See exhibit RXL1, appointing McCatpiss.
I have argued since Randy walked through the North Stand carpark for the first time that we need football nous on the board.
But... We aren't that bad, he has put plenty of cash in and we need a young bloke with a longer term plan to get us moving.
I haven't changed in that opinion and believe we have the right guy for the job. So let's give him a chance, support him. Murder Naarwich on Saturday and give Man Ure a game.
Risso, when we meet in person we get on. You are stupidly miserable by comparison to me online!
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It has been posted on here before, get rid of Faulkner and get someone in with a football brain before we have any more American shitty style half time entertainment ( in the bloody Championship)
Not having half-time entertainment being the prime reason to sack a CEO?
I think there's more than enough ammunition without that to be honest.
With everything and everyone so wrong I'm amazed the club still exists.
No you're right, everything at the club is just tickety-boo.
I wasn't aware I've ever said that. Perhaps you could find it for me.
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Don't know why people are wanting him out, it will be ok when we win the F.A. cup ;)
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And this thread is called?
It's not the fans who have appointed three managers in two years.
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I wasn't aware I've ever said that. Perhaps you could find it for me.
While you're at it perhaps you could find the post which says everything and everyone is so wrong. You know, the one that's got Dave all riled up.
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And this thread is called?
It's not the fans who have appointed three managers in two years.
But it is some of whom would have him appoint a fourth. This, incidentally, is a differnt point to your original one.
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Take a look at other clubs owners that don't give the manager money, time or get the club into serious debt. Randy is good, made 1 mistake, was a big mistake granted, but he's working towards making it better. Give him half a chance.
How many people have taken charge of the first team in the two and a bit years since O'Neill left?
And this thread is called?
IN answer to the thread title - No.
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But it is some of whom would have him appoint a fourth. This, incidentally, is a differnt point to your original one.
It is, you're right. But seeing as we're on the subject, given how many managers we've been through recently I would suggest that it isn't the fans that Lambert has to worry about. That said, this is the first managerial choice that Lerner has made which has coincided with the choice of at least a few of the club's supporters.
Anyway, we've got to stick with Lambert, for at least 3 years I reckon. As opposed to where we were in say 2008/9 or midway through 2009/10, Lambert is better than pretty much anyone else who'd consider taking the job. Although if we did get relegated it would be interesting to see what Lerner would do, considering that TSM got the poke for almost getting us relegated.
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One manager resigned for his own selfish reasons, another was unable to continue. In different circumstances either would still be here so I don't think Lambert has to worry about Randy being trigger-happy.
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Not only was TSM a shit manager he was also massively unpopular. Lerner had no choice but to can him. He's got us the manager most on here wanted, aside from the brief flirtation with OGS. He's not going anywhere and it's borderline mental to even suggest he should be fired. He needs time and support from everyone, especially us.
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One manager resigned for his own selfish reasons, another was unable to continue. In different circumstances either would still be here so I don't think Lambert has to worry about Randy being trigger-happy.
Do we now know the facts about what happened in that case then? I thought we ended up paying him compensation via the tribunal.
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Take a look at other clubs owners that don't give the manager money, time or get the club into serious debt. Randy is good, made 1 mistake, was a big mistake granted, but he's working towards making it better. Give him half a chance.
How many people have taken charge of the first team in the two and a bit years since O'Neill left?
And this thread is called?
Lambert out. Which is a suggestion that a not one single person has made on this thread.
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One manager resigned for his own selfish reasons, another was unable to continue. In different circumstances either would still be here so I don't think Lambert has to worry about Randy being trigger-happy.
Do we now know the facts about what happened in that case then? I thought we ended up paying him compensation via the tribunal.
I think it's safe to assume his prime interest in the case was himself.
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I think it's safe to assume his prime interest in the case was himself.
Quite but it doesn't necessarily follow that Lerner was blameless in the matter. There must have been a reason why we were obliged to compensate him.
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I think it's safe to assume his prime interest in the case was himself.
Quite but it doesn't necessarily follow that Lerner was blameless in the matter. There must have been a reason why we were obliged to compensate him.
I'm not saying he was blameless, but I do think Randy would rather have kept him than not, albeit under different circumstances than in his first four years.
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I think it's safe to assume his prime interest in the case was himself.
Quite but it doesn't necessarily follow that Lerner was blameless in the matter. There must have been a reason why we were obliged to compensate him.
I'm not saying he was blameless, but I do think Randy would rather have kept him than not, albeit under different circumstances than in his first four years.
That was never, ever going to happen. It would have essentially meant Saint Martin admitting to his mistakes, and that would have been as likely as McLeish being appointed as the Barcelona manager.
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I'm not saying he was blameless, but I do think Randy would rather have kept him than not, albeit under different circumstances than in his first four years.
Agreed. And given what's happened since, so would I - which is quite an admission.
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I don't think it would have meant O'Neill admitting he was wrong so much as him having to face the prospect of slipping backwards and the image he'd built for himself as the New Clough slipping - and that was never going to happen. A pity in a way, because it would have been interesting to see whether he could have worked under restrictions and more importantly whether he could have got Milner, Young & Barry to stay for longer.
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I'm not saying he was blameless, but I do think Randy would rather have kept him than not, albeit under different circumstances than in his first four years.
Agreed. And given what's happened since, so would I - which is quite an admission.
I can see where you're coming from with that, but how much use would O'Neill actually have been under the economic conditions of the last two and a bit years? He did OK when he could spend £40m a season and then replace his defence en masse the year after. But having to get all the big earners off the wage bill would have seen us with similar results to the last two years I reckon. But like I say, it was never a possibility, he had a reputation to protect.
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I don't think it would have meant O'Neill admitting he was wrong so much as him having to face the prospect of slipping backwards and the image he'd built for himself as the New Clough slipping - and that was never going to happen. A pity in a way, because it would have been interesting to see whether he could have worked under restrictions and more importantly whether he could have got Milner, Young & Barry to stay for longer.
Milner had already decided to go hadn't he?
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I don't think it would have meant O'Neill admitting he was wrong so much as him having to face the prospect of slipping backwards and the image he'd built for himself as the New Clough slipping - and that was never going to happen. A pity in a way, because it would have been interesting to see whether he could have worked under restrictions and more importantly whether he could have got Milner, Young & Barry to stay for longer.
Milner had already decided to go hadn't he?
It all got a bit confusing from what I remember. Didn't O'Neill say something about him wanting a move then Milner denied it, or similar?
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I can see where you're coming from with that, but how much use would O'Neill actually have been under the economic conditions of the last two and a bit years? He did OK when he could spend £40m a season and then replace his defence en masse the year after. But having to get all the big earners off the wage bill would have seen us with similar results to the last two years I reckon. But like I say, it was never a possibility, he had a reputation to protect.
Yes it's speculative isn't it. But I always thought that we played some of our best stuff under him in that first season where he had to make do and mend for a while so it might not have been too bad if he'd stayed. I agree though that his monumental ego was always going to become a problem sooner or later.
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I don't think it would have meant O'Neill admitting he was wrong so much as him having to face the prospect of slipping backwards and the image he'd built for himself as the New Clough slipping - and that was never going to happen. A pity in a way, because it would have been interesting to see whether he could have worked under restrictions and more importantly whether he could have got Milner, Young & Barry to stay for longer.
Milner had already decided to go hadn't he?
It all got a bit confusing from what I remember. Didn't O'Neill say something about him wanting a move then Milner denied it, or similar?
I think Milner did deny it, but then wasn't the fact that O'Neill wanted all the Milner money to spend and Lerner saying no the major tipping point?
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I don't think it would have meant O'Neill admitting he was wrong so much as him having to face the prospect of slipping backwards and the image he'd built for himself as the New Clough slipping - and that was never going to happen. A pity in a way, because it would have been interesting to see whether he could have worked under restrictions and more importantly whether he could have got Milner, Young & Barry to stay for longer.
Milner had already decided to go hadn't he?
It all got a bit confusing from what I remember. Didn't O'Neill say something about him wanting a move then Milner denied it, or similar?
I think Milner did deny it, but then wasn't the fact that O'Neill wanted all the Milner money to spend and Lerner saying no the major tipping point?
God knows. I think in hindsight the signs had been there that all wasn't well for some time. There were a few rumours about what might have happened had we won the League Cup for a start.
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I don't think it would have meant O'Neill admitting he was wrong so much as him having to face the prospect of slipping backwards and the image he'd built for himself as the New Clough slipping - and that was never going to happen. A pity in a way, because it would have been interesting to see whether he could have worked under restrictions and more importantly whether he could have got Milner, Young & Barry to stay for longer.
Milner had already decided to go hadn't he?
It all got a bit confusing from what I remember. Didn't O'Neill say something about him wanting a move then Milner denied it, or similar?
I think Milner did deny it, but then wasn't the fact that O'Neill wanted all the Milner money to spend and Lerner saying no the major tipping point?
The only one who knows is MON but that's how I understood it. It also stacks up that MON then argued Lerner had made his position untenable by not giving him the money and that was how MON got a payoff from the tribunal.
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I don't think it would have meant O'Neill admitting he was wrong so much as him having to face the prospect of slipping backwards and the image he'd built for himself as the New Clough slipping - and that was never going to happen. A pity in a way, because it would have been interesting to see whether he could have worked under restrictions and more importantly whether he could have got Milner, Young & Barry to stay for longer.
Milner had already decided to go hadn't he?
It all got a bit confusing from what I remember. Didn't O'Neill say something about him wanting a move then Milner denied it, or similar?
I think Milner did deny it, but then wasn't the fact that O'Neill wanted all the Milner money to spend and Lerner saying no the major tipping point?
The only one who knows is MON but that's how I understood it. It also stacks up that MON then argued Lerner had made his position untenable by not giving him the money and that was how MON got a payoff from the tribunal.
That would surely not have amounted to a sum anywhere near what he is rumoured to have got. Is it not just possible that he was sacked?
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I don't think it would have meant O'Neill admitting he was wrong so much as him having to face the prospect of slipping backwards and the image he'd built for himself as the New Clough slipping - and that was never going to happen. A pity in a way, because it would have been interesting to see whether he could have worked under restrictions and more importantly whether he could have got Milner, Young & Barry to stay for longer.
Milner had already decided to go hadn't he?
It all got a bit confusing from what I remember. Didn't O'Neill say something about him wanting a move then Milner denied it, or similar?
I think Milner did deny it, but then wasn't the fact that O'Neill wanted all the Milner money to spend and Lerner saying no the major tipping point?
The only one who knows is MON but that's how I understood it. It also stacks up that MON then argued Lerner had made his position untenable by not giving him the money and that was how MON got a payoff from the tribunal.
That would surely not have amounted to a sum anywhere near what he is rumoured to have got. Is it not just possible that he was sacked?
He was on a rolling 12 month contract and the rumoured settlement was approximately a year's salary so not entirely unreasonable.
As for being sacked, it's possible but highly unlikely. The current trend for potentially controversial sackings is to say the manager has left 'by mutual consent'. There was none of this here - the club were very clear in their statement that MON had resigned and they've been publicly consistent with that view ever since. No one has ever mentioned a sacking.
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I don't think it would have meant O'Neill admitting he was wrong so much as him having to face the prospect of slipping backwards and the image he'd built for himself as the New Clough slipping - and that was never going to happen. A pity in a way, because it would have been interesting to see whether he could have worked under restrictions and more importantly whether he could have got Milner, Young & Barry to stay for longer.
Milner had already decided to go hadn't he?
It all got a bit confusing from what I remember. Didn't O'Neill say something about him wanting a move then Milner denied it, or similar?
I think Milner did deny it, but then wasn't the fact that O'Neill wanted all the Milner money to spend and Lerner saying no the major tipping point?
The only one who knows is MON but that's how I understood it. It also stacks up that MON then argued Lerner had made his position untenable by not giving him the money and that was how MON got a payoff from the tribunal.
That would surely not have amounted to a sum anywhere near what he is rumoured to have got. Is it not just possible that he was sacked?
it is pretty simple, one side kept meticulous notes of every conversation, the other side did not,
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At least in the old days we could have established how much the payoff was. Was it a year's salary or was it £9 million?
Anyway, regarding the current manager, it is a pity that our home attendances have not lived up to expectations right from the start of the season until now.
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A sacking doesn't seem plausible.
What seems pretty clear is that there was a meeting between Randy, Faulkner and MON. After the meeting Randy went back to the US. A couple of days later MON resigned. It seems likely that neither Randy nor Faulkner expected this to happen.
What happened in the meeting was probably the reason why MON resigned. Because he had stated earlier, in public, that he would stay as manager even if he didn't get much money to spend. Or, and this is not unlikely either, he changed is mind and realised that he wouldn't be able to develop the team without yet another £x million to spend on another set of defenders. Even if it meant going back on what he had said publicly. This could explain why MON has been so keen on keeping the reason for his departure undisclosed: he left for reasons that he had said earlier wouldn't make him leave.
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this is the first managerial choice that Lerner has made which has coincided with the choice of at least a few of the club's supporters.
More than a few I think.
On the day TSM was sacked a statement was issued by the club that was written by Randy in which he basically admitted he'd got it wrong for the last two years. At the time most people gave him credit for this admission, and said it was the first step to putting things right. Since then the decisions made for Aston Villa seem pretty solid.
Now things are going badly are we to ignore this admission, and the things that have been done since, and put him on trail all over again?
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this is the first managerial choice that Lerner has made which has coincided with the choice of at least a few of the club's supporters.
More than a few I think.
On the day TSM was sacked a statement was issued by the club that was written by Randy in which he basically admitted he'd got it wrong for the last two years. At the time most people gave him credit for this admission, and said it was the first step to putting things right. Since then the decisions made for Aston Villa seem pretty solid.
Now things are going badly are we to ignore this admission, and the things that have been done since, and put him on trail all over again?
I genuinely don't think that is the case. Maybe what many supporters underestimated was the effect the last two years have had on the club and just how difficult it is going to be to turn it round.
As for the question about sacking Paul Lambert, I couldn't disagree more. I don't think it will happen, but if the worst comes to the worst and we do go down, I still think we should stick with him as I feel he will get it right given time.
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Why would he be sacked on the eve of a campaign and not earlier in the summer?
I can see why some might interpret enforcing a new set of working conditions as 'effectively' sacking him.
But that's not the same as actually sacking him.
What we know:
-He was told about getting the wage bill down as far back as April 2010 - maybe even earlier than that. April was when it first got mentioned in the press, with a list of players who were for the chop circulated.
-RL (and the General) confirmed the wage bill issue at the end of the season- but still said money would be available when players were moved on (or sell to buy, as Nuresy and co repeated ad nauseam that summer and beyond).
-The Milner deal was mooted early in the summer - and MON confirmed the player wanted out soon after the start of pre season training. There was no suggestion -at this point- that the loss of Milner would make MON walk
-Luke Young and NRC both turned down moves late into pre season. Fulham's move for Sidwell broke down once Hodgson left. No deals were on the table for Shorey, Davies and Harewood
This part- I accept- is speculation, but was widely reported:
He wanted Keane, Parker and McGeady. But with only Milner going out and Ireland coming in, the wage bill issue was no closer to being addressed : indeed it's possible it would actually be increasing.
MON- getting desperate- tried to lean on RL. He might have had some success with this tactic before. But RL -determined to get tough for once- said "speak to the Chief Exec."
MON doesn't get exactly what he wants = MON walks.
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I think it was even simpler than that:
- Randy was sick of the losses and lack of success so told MON he had to get the wage bill down and that he was pretty much on a sell-to-buy policy;
- MON ignored the wage bill issue (or just couldn't shift players on silly contracts he'd signed them on) and just assumed he'd be able to spend the Milner money;
- Randy told him that as the wage bill hadn't been addressed he was going to use the Milner money to balance the books;
- MON spat his dummy out and quit, before suing the club for constructive dismissal or breach of contract on the grounds he didn't have full control over footballing matters.
Anyway, that's all ancient history now.
Sack Lambert? You must be joking!!!
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We need to give Paul Lambert our full backing.
Long term I am convinced he can do a good job for us. The short term looks like it will be a shaky ride.
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/why-paul-lamberts-norwich-template-for-success-1394262
Not sure which thread is best for this but a very interesting read.
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/why-paul-lamberts-norwich-template-for-success-1394262
Not sure which thread is best for this but a very interesting read.
Good summation of several of the current threads here.
A victory on Saturday may be all it takes to get the team / squad in a more positive and assertive frame of mind ...
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We need to give Paul Lambert our full backing.
I will again use the Long Haul flight analogy. We've hit some turbulence 10 mins into the flight. What you don't do is throw the pilot out of the plane.
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MON- getting desperate- tried to lean on RL. He might have had some success with this tactic before. But RL -determined to get tough for once- said "speak to the Chief Exec."
MON doesn't get exactly what he wants = MON walks.
At Celtic, O'Neill regularly gave pronouncements to the Scottish press that he was 'considering his future' whenever he couldn't get his way.
This was highlighted in Archie MacPherson's 'Flower of Scotland' book.
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We need to give Paul Lambert our full backing.
I will again use the Long Haul flight analogy. We've hit some turbulence 10 mins into the flight. What you don't do is throw the pilot out of the plane.
And quite right to. Our club was dragged to the point of no return last season and Lambert has to be given time to work on it. This is not a crisis, just the start of a transitional period and i for one, although a little dissapointed at the moment, am full of confidence for us with Lambert in charge. If we can give the TSM 3/4 of a season before we went mental then Lambert deserves more before we start talking about stuff like this.
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We need to give Paul Lambert our full backing.
I will again use the Long Haul flight analogy. We've hit some turbulence 10 mins into the flight. What you don't do is throw the pilot out of the plane.
As long as he pulls out of the nosedive before we hit the ground......
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We need to give Paul Lambert our full backing.
Long term I am convinced he can do a good job for us. The short term looks like it will be a shaky ride.
Yes, and I believe that that this is the instinct of the majority of fans that go to the games.
This is not a pop at those fans fans who are unable or unwilling to go to games, by the way.
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We need to give Paul Lambert our full backing.
I will again use the Long Haul flight analogy. We've hit some turbulence 10 mins into the flight. What you don't do is throw the pilot out of the plane.
As long as he pulls out of the nosedive before we hit the ground......
By which point people would be flapping anyway and trying to blame the airline rather than the pilot....
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I think we should stick with Lambert even if we do go down, I like what he's trying to achieve and the way he's gone about it. There is promise in the playing squad and an attitude from him that's spot on.
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We need to give Paul Lambert our full backing.
I will again use the Long Haul flight analogy. We've hit some turbulence 10 mins into the flight. What you don't do is throw the pilot out of the plane.
You don't actually need a pilot to fly a plane. You'd just be in auto pilot. Kind of a more precise comparison...
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I think we should stick with Lambert even if we do go down, I like what he's trying to achieve and the way he's gone about it. There is promise in the playing squad and an attitude from him that's spot on.
How poor will we actually have to be to get relegated though? If McLeish could keep us up, then Lambert has no excuse for relegation seeing as he's got the same squad and has spent £20m to add to it. Plus whatever he gets in January.
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I think we should stick with Lambert even if we do go down, I like what he's trying to achieve and the way he's gone about it. There is promise in the playing squad and an attitude from him that's spot on.
How poor will we actually have to be to get relegated though? If McLeish could keep us up, then Lambert has no excuse for relegation seeing as he's got the same squad and has spent £20m to add to it. Plus whatever he gets in January.
He hasn't got the same squad though has he?
McLeish added players with no promise to the squad who had plateaued in their careers (or dipped) and Lambert has signed up-and-coming young professionals who will take time to adjust.
Are you suggesting that Lambert is worse than McLeish?
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I think we should stick with Lambert even if we do go down, I like what he's trying to achieve and the way he's gone about it. There is promise in the playing squad and an attitude from him that's spot on.
How poor will we actually have to be to get relegated though? If McLeish could keep us up, then Lambert has no excuse for relegation seeing as he's got the same squad and has spent £20m to add to it. Plus whatever he gets in January.
To be fair though Riss he has had to deal with a squad that was completely shot to pieces after a season under McLeish and has had to make a lot of changes in a short space of time. I agree with Drummond that we should stick with him even if we do go down (though I don't think we will).
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I think we should stick with Lambert even if we do go down, I like what he's trying to achieve and the way he's gone about it. There is promise in the playing squad and an attitude from him that's spot on.
How poor will we actually have to be to get relegated though? If McLeish could keep us up, then Lambert has no excuse for relegation seeing as he's got the same squad and has spent £20m to add to it. Plus whatever he gets in January.
To be fair though Riss he has had to deal with a squad that was completely shot to pieces after a season under McLeish and has had to make a lot of changes in a short space of time. I agree with Drummond that we should stick with him even if we do go down (though I don't think we will).
Also, who would come to us if we moved on to our seventh manager in the space of three years? Even Mick McCarthy would hesitate to touch that one!
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I think we should stick with Lambert even if we do go down, I like what he's trying to achieve and the way he's gone about it. There is promise in the playing squad and an attitude from him that's spot on.
How poor will we actually have to be to get relegated though? If McLeish could keep us up, then Lambert has no excuse for relegation seeing as he's got the same squad and has spent £20m to add to it. Plus whatever he gets in January.
He hasn't got the same squad though has he?
McLeish added players with no promise to the squad who had plateaued in their careers (or dipped) and Lambert has signed up-and-coming young professionals who will take time to adjust.
Are you suggesting that Lambert is worse than McLeish?
Yes, if he takes us down. I'm prepared to give him time, but already we've seen performances which are at least as bad as anything we saw last year. If he gets us relegated, there's no way he should be retained.
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I think we should stick with Lambert even if we do go down, I like what he's trying to achieve and the way he's gone about it. There is promise in the playing squad and an attitude from him that's spot on.
How poor will we actually have to be to get relegated though? If McLeish could keep us up, then Lambert has no excuse for relegation seeing as he's got the same squad and has spent £20m to add to it. Plus whatever he gets in January.
He hasn't got the same squad though has he?
McLeish added players with no promise to the squad who had plateaued in their careers (or dipped) and Lambert has signed up-and-coming young professionals who will take time to adjust.
Are you suggesting that Lambert is worse than McLeish?
Yes, if he takes us down. I'm prepared to give him time, but already we've seen performances which are at least as bad as anything we saw last year. If he gets us relegated, there's no way he should be retained.
I've seen nothing anywhere near as bad as some of the stuff churned out last year.
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we've seen performances which are at least as bad as anything we saw last year
No we haven't. Nothing like. At least as bad as Spurs last year? Heskey and Hutton in midfield? You are having a giraffe.
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I saw more football being played against Swansea than the whole of last season. I have faith in this man he has seen the same failings as us, ie Collins Warnock Hutton Given.
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Are you suggesting that Lambert is worse than McLeish?
Yes, if he takes us down.
You must be joking! I know "football's a results game blah, blah, blah", but there are worlds between TSM and Lambert! I would stick with him, in the Championship... Although I don't believe we'll be going down.
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I saw more football being played against Swansea than the whole of last season. I have faith in this man he has seen the same failings as us, ie Collins Warnock Hutton Given.
Amazed you would bracket given along with those other 3 wasters.
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After much research and a mass debate, I have come to the conclusion that the internet exists for the 'fans' who never actually go to matches.
H&V has been an exception to this phenomenon in the main - I kid you not.
But the shortsighted spores of blame culture are beginning to infect even this hallowed place.
So a 'fan' - is shorthand for a fanatic.
Yet I saw and heard no fans of ours at Fulham - only supporters.
UTV
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I saw more football being played against Swansea than the whole of last season. I have faith in this man he has seen the same failings as us, ie Collins Warnock Hutton Given.
Amazed you would bracket given along with those other 3 wasters.
Good point. Given will be lining up for Villa in the League cup next week and there's a fair chance we'll see him in the Premier League again..
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There's nothing wrong with Given's attitude but apart from some very good and important saves last season, i think the general consensus was that he was'nt as good as we all thought he was going to be.
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There's nothing wrong with Given's attitude but apart from some very good and important saves last season, i think the general consensus was that he was'nt as good as we all thought he was going to be.
I have no worries about either given or Guzan in goal for us- both are decent enough.
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Are you suggesting that Lambert is worse than McLeish?
Yes, if he takes us down.
You must be joking! I know "football's a results game blah, blah, blah", but there are worlds between TSM and Lambert! I would stick with him, in the Championship... Although I don't believe we'll be going down.
IF he takes us down after 38 games, then we can judge, but under what circumatsances is relegation EVER alright? Tony Mowbray got dog's abuse from everybody on here for trying to play nice football, but ultimately taking the Boggies down. Yet it will be OK if Lambert does it? If we go down, it will be because Lambert wasn't good enough to keep us up. If he keeps us up, even if it's on goal difference, then fair enough, but relegation?
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My backing for Lambert is not due to playing better football, as my own preference has always been results over style. But what he is doing is what needed to be done, which is revitalise the squad and do something with a long term plan. Basically, try to find a way back to the top 6 that doesn't involve buying your way there.
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There's nothing wrong with Given's attitude but apart from some very good and important saves last season, i think the general consensus was that he was'nt as good as we all thought he was going to be.
Or maybe that injuries have taken their toll and he may not be as good as he once was. I wouldn't be surprised to see him leave the club in January if Guzan's decent form continues. I don't think we are in a position where we can afford to pay a goalkeeper over £60,000 a week to sit on the bench.
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8 games and we have a Lambert out thread....
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8 games and we have a Lambert out thread....
Precisely. Ridiculous.
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In mitigation it does have a question mark.
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And the original post was pouring scorn on such calls.
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Still, we have it though.
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We have been on the decline for 2.5 years. We declined towards the end of MON's reign which was only being propped up by huge over spending on wages. Then we replaced him with an awful backward looking appointment + sidekick which was never ever going to work and then we managed to usurp that appointment with an even worse one. Aside from Billy McDuff the worst ever Villa Manager
In 2 seasons we lost 21% of previous season's points as at end 2010-11 and then another 17% by end of 2011-12 season (compared to 2009-10).
This against a backdrop of reducing the over inflated wage bill, losing some of our best players and replacing them with ones who are generally overpaid/overrated/over-the hill and don't give a shit or are new to Premiership (from abroad or lower league) where time will tell if they are good enough.
Whoever took this job was going to struggle.
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I don't think that we were ever going to be able to prevent those best players from leaving as they saw their futures elsewhere, as have others in the past.A mixture of money, promises and blatant poaching has always stripped us of our best talent so there's always an element of going back to the drawing board.
Managers have come and spent on their projects and have generally been found wanting.
The least we can do with the current guy is give him our support and let him get on with it, like the economy we might just be coming out with some green shoots after a long period of recession caused by other's policies
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8 games and we have a Lambert out thread....
Try reading the original post. Nobody has called for Lambert to be sacked at all.
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We have been on the decline for 2.5 years. We declined towards the end of MON's reign which was only being propped up by huge over spending on wages. Then we replaced him with an awful backward looking appointment + sidekick which was never ever going to work and then we managed to usurp that appointment with an even worse one. Aside from Billy McDuff the worst ever Villa Manager
In 2 seasons we lost 21% of previous season's points as at end 2010-11 and then another 17% by end of 2011-12 season (compared to 2009-10).
This against a backdrop of reducing the over inflated wage bill, losing some of our best players and replacing them with ones who are generally overpaid/overrated/over-the hill and don't give a shit or are new to Premiership (from abroad or lower league) where time will tell if they are good enough.
Whoever took this job was going to struggle.
..................signed P.Lambert
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8 games and we have a Lambert out thread....
Try reading the original post. Nobody has called for Lambert to be sacked at all.
True, I think we are all behind him and accept he has a difficult job to turn things around.
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The thread title is a bit of a pisser, TBH.
Outsiders might look at it and think "Look at that! Fickle Villa fans want to get shot of him already."
Then again, fcuk what outsiders think.
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Innit.
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8 games and we have a Lambert out thread....
Egg- Fecking- Zakaly. But there are some good points being made by people.
I have said and still do say that we will be fine. A good Tonking is on its way for Norwich.
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if you do not have the right tools you will struggle to do the job
how many of pl team tomorrow would get into mon team that played lcf v manure
not a lot
we are a work in progress
pl req.time and money to do the job
he will get this right
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Slight tangent, just heard John Inverdale on R5 mention an interview Pat Murphy did with
PL which will air tomorrow. Apparently PL didn't speak to one of the chief bigwigs at Norwich for the last 2 years.
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Sorry Lizz but do you mean he did not speak to a certain bigwig at Norwich or he did not speak to any of the bigwigs at Norwich for two years?
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A certain bigwig, who was I think mentioned by name, but as ever, being in the kitchen at the time & multi tasking, was unsure if it was Delia or the CEO.
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A certain bigwig, who was I think mentioned by name, but as ever, being in the kitchen at the time & multi tasking, was unsure if it was Delia or the CEO.
It was the Chairman, Alan Bowkett.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/aston-villa/9635437/Aston-Villa-manager-Paul-Lambert-says-he-has-not-spoken-to-Norwich-City-chairman-since-acrimonious-departure.html
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Well if they were in the kitchen it was Delia surely?
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I still can't believe I have to see this thread everytime I login to this website. Any of you who think Lambert is not an improvement on the sacks of shit who were on the bench last year and did so much to destroy the great name of our club need to spend some time on the naughty step.
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I still can't believe I have to see this thread everytime I login to this website. Any of you who think Lambert is not an improvement on the sacks of shit who were on the bench last year and did so much to destroy the great name of our club need to spend some time on the naughty step.
Lambert was clueless today.
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The worry to me is that Lambert has had only one season in his league himself. It's easy to forget that with the job he did at Norwich but 2/3 of those seasons were below the premier league.
We've seen in the past managers who've had wonder seasons and then kept the club up before being found out the next season. Take Pardew at West Ham, got them up, first season they finished top half and reached the cup final, next season sacked by xmas. Paul Jewell at Wigan, first season again great but the next they avoided the drop on the last day and he got out.
I suppose Lambert saw that would probably happen at Norwich so wanted to save his reputation a little and he probably thought like a lot of ous that it wouldn't take a lot to get us back into comfortable mid table and build from there. Looks like most of us overestimated that as we'll be in a relegation battle for the foreseeable future.
My first choice for the job has always been Roberto Martinez. Three seasons managing in the prem, kept Wigan (just about) in the league playing decent football on a limited budget and appears to me tactically quite good. That's not to say I was against Lambert as he was one of my choices after that but tbh apart from Newcastle and Swansea this season has been as bad as last season and the same old falings are apparent, lack of goal threat, can't defend set pieces, too slow to move the ball in midfield etc.
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I still can't believe I have to see this thread everytime I login to this website. Any of you who think Lambert is not an improvement on the sacks of shit who were on the bench last year and did so much to destroy the great name of our club need to spend some time on the naughty step.
In what way is this season better than last so far? It isn't.
I didn't understand the mass jubilation when we got Lambert, in the same way I didn't understand the mass hysteria last season. Two shit managers, with a shit squad. What do you expect to happen on the pitch? The only difference is one of them didn't work for that lot down the road.
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We've got a problem. Inexperienced side, lead by a manager inexperienced in the big time. For me, if we go down then we've already got the best man to take us up again with Lambert.
Come Feb-March. If we're still in this position, struggling like we are then I'm not sure Lambert has the nous to get us out. It'd be at that point where you need an experienced manager to get you out of the mess. I don't think Lambert is a grind out a result type of manager anyway. Never has been, but at a certain stage, to survive in this league, you need that.
So there may be a very tough decision for Lerner into next year. Does he stick or twist? He might look at how late he left it with Eck and not want to ride that close again. If he thinks we can afford a relegation and come through it better, then he sticks. Otherwise we might so a desperation appointment in the final 3rd of the season. Who that'd be I don't know. Someone on a short contract for good money perhaps. Even then, given our squad we could get Mourinho and still sink.
I'm happy for Lambert to stay on but whilst it's a steep learning curve for our squad, it's the same for him. He kept Norwich up playing his way and sticking to it. For us, he may have to be a bit more clever in how he approaches it. We can't hope for 3-2 wins, we can't score enough. We've got to hold out and scrape 1-0s more effectively.
January is make or break. I can't actually see us winning more than 2-3 before then. We could conceivably not win any.
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I still can't believe I have to see this thread everytime I login to this website. Any of you who think Lambert is not an improvement on the sacks of shit who were on the bench last year and did so much to destroy the great name of our club need to spend some time on the naughty step.
In what way is this season better than last so far? It isn't.
I didn't understand the mass jubilation when we got Lambert, in the same way I didn't understand the mass hysteria last season. Two shit managers, with a shit squad. What do you expect to happen on the pitch? The only difference is one of them didn't work for that lot down the road.
I didn't get this either, his appointment was truly underwhelming.
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I still can't believe I have to see this thread everytime I login to this website. Any of you who think Lambert is not an improvement on the sacks of shit who were on the bench last year and did so much to destroy the great name of our club need to spend some time on the naughty step.
In what way is this season better than last so far? It isn't.
I didn't understand the mass jubilation when we got Lambert, in the same way I didn't understand the mass hysteria last season. Two shit managers, with a shit squad. What do you expect to happen on the pitch? The only difference is one of them didn't work for that lot down the road.
I didn't get this either, his appointment was truly underwhelming.
There is a huge difference in approach, that is obvious. Lambert wants to win games and is prepared to try. Whether he has the skill to manage this bunch of players to get results is a moot point but at least he's trying.
I'd rather go down fighting than go down hiding.
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His mentality is to gamble to win, which is a big gamble as we could well end up relegated, however to compare him with that abomination of negativity who is the real culprit for our forgetting how to win last season shows a memory loss on our part.
He sent on bent and Weimann yesterday while we were 1-0 up, naive ? maybe but at least it shows a mentality of trying to win. I really hope we survive this season and rediscover our pride and a winning mentality , then maybe we can look back at this period and appreciate someone trying to regain the soul of a club which was all but killed last season.
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What was the attendance yesterday ? Watching on telly here the top of the Holte looked half empty, the top of Trinity and the North stand looked the same.
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What was the attendance yesterday ? Watching on telly here the top of the Holte looked half empty, the top of Trinity and the North stand looked the same.
Over 33k
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Just been browsing a few websites and the name of Harry redknapp keeps being bandied about - id stick with lambert but I doubt if we are cut adrift at Xmas whether randy would panic and go for uncle Harry .
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Just been browsing a few websites and the name of Harry redknapp keeps being bandied about - id stick with lambert but I doubt if we are cut adrift at Xmas whether randy would panic and go for uncle Harry .
He'll end up at QPR if anywhere.
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Just been browsing a few websites and the name of Harry redknapp keeps being bandied about - id stick with lambert but I doubt if we are cut adrift at Xmas whether randy would panic and go for uncle Harry .
He'll end up at QPR if anywhere.
Wouldn't surprise me if Hughes is sacked this week to be honest.
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If Lerner does panic and get rid of Lambert we will be lucky to see a decent manager within miles of Villa Park. As for bloody Bagpuss, no thanks, never. We have to stick with what we have got or else we really are in trouble.
Worst scenario is if we are still in the shite by Christmas then funds have to be made available to strengthen. That said, we have to be very carefull who we go after.
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Not sure why Redknapp is mentioned ..didn't he go to Southampton in trouble and relegate them? He is good when he has good players and a budget ..which he wouldn't have here so I doubt he could get anything else of the current squad.
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I still can't believe I have to see this thread everytime I login to this website. Any of you who think Lambert is not an improvement on the sacks of shit who were on the bench last year and did so much to destroy the great name of our club need to spend some time on the naughty step.
In what way is this season better than last so far? It isn't.
I didn't understand the mass jubilation when we got Lambert, in the same way I didn't understand the mass hysteria last season. Two shit managers, with a shit squad. What do you expect to happen on the pitch? The only difference is one of them didn't work for that lot down the road.
I didn't get this either, his appointment was truly underwhelming.
I was pleased we had got him as it was about the best we could get, we've become a small act these days.
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Just been browsing a few websites and the name of Harry redknapp keeps being bandied about - id stick with lambert but I doubt if we are cut adrift at Xmas whether randy would panic and go for uncle Harry .
This is Randy Lerner's mess not Lambert's. No point sacking a top manager to bring in Harry unless you hand him £50m.
Randy has got us into this mess, let him take the flak not Paul Lambert who is trying to work miracles with the worst group of villa players I have seen since I started supporting in 1994 as a nine year old. He hadn't much money to spend but had a heap of holes to fill.
We need a win so badly.
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Just been browsing a few websites and the name of Harry redknapp keeps being bandied about - id stick with lambert but I doubt if we are cut adrift at Xmas whether randy would panic and go for uncle Harry .
The furthest north that wide boy has ever worked is Tottenham.
He doesn't even know how to find his way to Villa Park apart from when he has been driven here with a bus full of overpaid prima donnas.
Uncle Harry for Xmas? Do me a favour - you would have to give a give a give a Garmin.
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I think the myth about who we like to think we can attract and who we really can attract was demonstrated when MON left - it was the Curbishleys and McClarens.
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Just been browsing a few websites and the name of Harry redknapp keeps being bandied about - id stick with lambert but I doubt if we are cut adrift at Xmas whether randy would panic and go for uncle Harry .
This is Randy Lerner's mess not Lambert's. No point sacking a top manager to bring in Harry unless you hand him £50m.
Randy has got us into this mess, let him take the flak not Paul Lambert who is trying to work miracles with the worst group of villa players I have seen since I started supporting in 1994 as a nine year old. He hadn't much money to spend but had a heap of holes to fill.
We need a win so badly.
Tuesday and Saturday are a must.
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Just been browsing a few websites and the name of Harry redknapp keeps being bandied about - id stick with lambert but I doubt if we are cut adrift at Xmas whether randy would panic and go for uncle Harry .
This is Randy Lerner's mess not Lambert's. No point sacking a top manager to bring in Harry unless you hand him £50m.
Randy has got us into this mess, let him take the flak not Paul Lambert who is trying to work miracles with the worst group of villa players I have seen since I started supporting in 1994 as a nine year old. He hadn't much money to spend but had a heap of holes to fill.
You may get some stick blaming Randy.
We need a win so badly.
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I still can't believe I have to see this thread everytime I login to this website. Any of you who think Lambert is not an improvement on the sacks of shit who were on the bench last year and did so much to destroy the great name of our club need to spend some time on the naughty step.
In what way is this season better than last so far? It isn't.
I didn't understand the mass jubilation when we got Lambert, in the same way I didn't understand the mass hysteria last season. Two shit managers, with a shit squad. What do you expect to happen on the pitch? The only difference is one of them didn't work for that lot down the road.
I didn't get this either, his appointment was truly underwhelming.
I was pleased we had got him as it was about the best we could get, we've become a small act these days.
Quite. Who else could Villa have gone for in the summer? Lambert's record is decent as well, I'm not sure who else out there we could have realistically gone for and got.
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If Randy thought the wage bill got out of hand under MON he'd have a heart attack if Redknapp was in charge.
We are where we are. There's no point changing the manager now. Yesterday was the first time I even entertained the idea that in the long run a relegation might actually be good for the club.
At the moment we have a group of kids whose only experience of the top flight is defeats or scrapping for draws. Confidence is shot to pieces and I don't think they can cope with a relegation scrap.
Were the worst to happen and we did go down I'm convinced Lambert would bring us back up at the first attempt and we can then have another crack with much more confidence.
In March 1990 when we were 3 points clear of Liverpool with a game in hand at the top of the league our mid-80s trip to the 2nd division didn't look too bad.
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If Randy thought the wage bill got out of hand under MON he'd have a heart attack if Redknapp was in charge.
We are where we are. There's no point changing the manager now. Yesterday was the first time I even entertained the idea that in the long run a relegation might actually be good for the club.
At the moment we have a group of kids whose only experience of the top flight is defeats or scrapping for draws. Confidence is shot to pieces and I don't think they can cope with a relegation scrap.
Were the worst to happen and we did go down I'm convinced Lambert would bring us back up at the first attempt and we can then have another crack with much more confidence.
In March 1990 when we were 3 points clear of Liverpool with a game in hand at the top of the league our mid-80s trip to the 2nd division didn't look too bad.
The ga,e has changed a lot since then, the money in the premier league is massive and relegation would be financial disaster, surely Lerner would be better giving big money to lambert to save us rather than lose a fortune if relegated.
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Lerner thought we could do it on the cheap. The start of the season has proven he can't. January will be the most important transfer window ever, in my opinion. We have to spend serious money on experienced PL players, and NO MORE cheap foreigner/lower league crap, else we will be plying our trade in the Championship next season.
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If Randy thought the wage bill got out of hand under MON he'd have a heart attack if Redknapp was in charge.
We are where we are. There's no point changing the manager now. Yesterday was the first time I even entertained the idea that in the long run a relegation might actually be good for the club.
At the moment we have a group of kids whose only experience of the top flight is defeats or scrapping for draws. Confidence is shot to pieces and I don't think they can cope with a relegation scrap.
Were the worst to happen and we did go down I'm convinced Lambert would bring us back up at the first attempt and we can then have another crack with much more confidence.
In March 1990 when we were 3 points clear of Liverpool with a game in hand at the top of the league our mid-80s trip to the 2nd division didn't look too bad.
The ga,e has changed a lot since then, the money in the premier league is massive and relegation would be financial disaster, surely Lerner would be better giving big money to lambert ve us rather than lose a fortune if relegated.
But equally the parachute payment regime is much more generous now.
It didn't do Newcastle any harm over the past few years.
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Lerner thought we could do it on the cheap. The start of the season has proven he can't. January will be the most important transfer window ever, in my opinion. We have to spend serious money on experienced PL players, and NO MORE cheap foreigner/lower league crap, else we will be plying our trade in the Championship next season.
I agree, anyone got any names in mind who realistically we could attract to the club?
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If Randy thought the wage bill got out of hand under MON he'd have a heart attack if Redknapp was in charge.
We are where we are. There's no point changing the manager now. Yesterday was the first time I even entertained the idea that in the long run a relegation might actually be good for the club.
At the moment we have a group of kids whose only experience of the top flight is defeats or scrapping for draws. Confidence is shot to pieces and I don't think they can cope with a relegation scrap.
Were the worst to happen and we did go down I'm convinced Lambert would bring us back up at the first attempt and we can then have another crack with much more confidence.
In March 1990 when we were 3 points clear of Liverpool with a game in hand at the top of the league our mid-80s trip to the 2nd division didn't look too bad.
The ga,e has changed a lot since then, the money in the premier league is massive and relegation would be financial disaster, surely Lerner would be better giving big money to lambert ve us rather than lose a fortune if relegated.
But equally the parachute payment regime is much more generous now.
It didn't do Newcastle any harm over the past few years.
True but Newcastle bought quality players like , Ben Arfa, cisse, ba, cabaye , etc and made a killing on Carroll - we have bought nowhere near that quality .
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Hopefully our new scout (whoever it is, i forget his name) can find us a few players like Newcastle did. Frimpong from Arsenal for the 2nd half of the season would be nice.
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What was the attendance yesterday ? Watching on telly here the top of the Holte looked half empty, the top of Trinity and the North stand looked the same.
Your view of the attendance will have been affected by the fact that so many there didn't seem to bother too much with the actual game. I have to say I have never seen such a phenomenal amount of arriving late and leaving early as yesterday. Most of the crowd around me in the Lower Holte didn't arrive till about 10 - 15 minutes into the game, left over 10 minutes before the end, and didn't bother with the 10 minutes either side of half time!
Norwich's fans sung "Is there a fire drill?" and "Your support is fucking shit" & it is hard to argue when it becomes easier to beat the traffic by staying till the final whistle.
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But had you heard of any of those players before Newcastle bought them?
When MON was paying way over the odds for experienced Premier League players we were clamouring for cheap foreign imports. Now we're getting cheap foreign imports some are clamouring for experienced Premier League players.
Who says we're fickle?
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But had you heard of any of those players before Newcastle bought them?
When MON was paying way over the odds for experienced Premier League players we were clamouring for cheap foreign imports. Now we're getting cheap foreign imports some are clamouring for experienced Premier League players.
Who says we're fickle?
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It's getting the right balance and mix, we've gone from too many overpaid older players to too many younger inexperienced players, we need to add quality and experience.
If we went down would lerner want to stick around any longer or would he try and sell up , I agree sometimes as in newcastles case a step back can lead to steps forward but it can also lead to even further decline as in the case of forest , and others.
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But had you heard of any of those players before Newcastle bought them?
When MON was paying way over the odds for experienced Premier League players we were clamouring for cheap foreign imports. Now we're getting cheap foreign imports some are clamouring for experienced Premier League players.
Who says we're fickle?
Totally agree. I hope we don't go back down the road of paying £8m for the likes of Warnock. I'm sure the club don't want to do that either. That's not to say we should flood the team with lower league players, but hopefully now our scouting system will be a little more widespread.
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But had you heard of any of those players before Newcastle bought them?
When MON was paying way over the odds for experienced Premier League players we were clamouring for cheap foreign imports. Now we're getting cheap foreign imports some are clamouring for experienced Premier League players.
Who says we're fickle?
Ben Arfa and Cabeye were playing regular European football. And Cisse top scored in Germany. So yeah I can say I heard off them all.
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I think whoever we sign in January needs to be experienced in the premiership because we cannot afford a settling in period , we need someone to come straight in and deliver.
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But had you heard of any of those players before Newcastle bought them?
When MON was paying way over the odds for experienced Premier League players we were clamouring for cheap foreign imports. Now we're getting cheap foreign imports some are clamouring for experienced Premier League players.
Who says we're fickle?
Idiots, mainly. I just want to see decent players, I don't really care where they come from. Mostly, we've bought a right load of old shite the last couple of years.
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But had you heard of any of those players before Newcastle bought them?
When MON was paying way over the odds for experienced Premier League players we were clamouring for cheap foreign imports. Now we're getting cheap foreign imports some are clamouring for experienced Premier League players.
Who says we're fickle?
Idiots, mainly. I just want to see decent players, I don't really care where they come from. Mostly, we've bought a right load of old shite the last couple of years.
I agree we've had a lot to put up with as fans since MON left but if we're going down the road of buying players from overseas or lower leagues they're not going to hit the ground running immediately.
If to stay up we have to go buying Warnocks or Sidwells for silly money then I'm not sure I like that idea.
As a fellow bean counter Risso, you know as well as I do that if any business carries on doing the same thing it has done before then at best it'll get the same result, but its more likely it'll actually go backwards.
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But had you heard of any of those players before Newcastle bought them?
When MON was paying way over the odds for experienced Premier League players we were clamouring for cheap foreign imports. Now we're getting cheap foreign imports some are clamouring for experienced Premier League players.
Who says we're fickle?
Idiots, mainly. I just want to see decent players, I don't really care where they come from. Mostly, we've bought a right load of old shite the last couple of years.
I don't think people necessarily want the likes of Sidwell back (though actually, I think even he'd improve our midfield somewhat...sad statement) but we do need a better mix.
The point has always been that we've got the balance wrong. Not enough decent young buys or foreign gems by O Neill and too much spent on Harewoods etc who didn't play and picked up obscene wages.
Now it's the case that we signed a load of players over the summer from lower leagues or from abroad from a frankly average Dutch league.
For me if we sign 6 players in a window, I'd want them all to be good players and then it be 2 who you know what you're gonna get, 2 youngsters and 2 lower cost foreign players with potential. It's all about balance.
Come Jan if we sign a decent experienced centre half and CM, who have played in this league, or a top standard (and suited to our league) then we'll be much better. We lack leaders, wiser heads, organisers. Midfield especially is sorely lacking in quality and experience.
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No point sacking the manager, it's the team that are awful, not him.
who is picking the team?
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I still can't believe I have to see this thread everytime I login to this website. Any of you who think Lambert is not an improvement on the sacks of shit who were on the bench last year and did so much to destroy the great name of our club need to spend some time on the naughty step.
In what way is this season better than last so far? It isn't.
I didn't understand the mass jubilation when we got Lambert, in the same way I didn't understand the mass hysteria last season. Two shit managers, with a shit squad. What do you expect to happen on the pitch? The only difference is one of them didn't work for that lot down the road.
I didn't get this either, his appointment was truly underwhelming.
There is a huge difference in approach, that is obvious. Lambert wants to win games and is prepared to try. Whether he has the skill to manage this bunch of players to get results is a moot point but at least he's trying.
I'd rather go down fighting than go down hiding.
I didn't see much fight yesterday.....unless you count a red card.
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What was the attendance yesterday ? Watching on telly here the top of the Holte looked half empty, the top of Trinity and the North stand looked the same.
Your view of the attendance will have been affected by the fact that so many there didn't seem to bother too much with the actual game. I have to say I have never seen such a phenomenal amount of arriving late and leaving early as yesterday. Most of the crowd around me in the Lower Holte didn't arrive till about 10 - 15 minutes into the game, left over 10 minutes before the end, and didn't bother with the 10 minutes either side of half time!
Norwich's fans sung "Is there a fire drill?" and "Your support is fucking shit" & it is hard to argue when it becomes easier to beat the traffic by staying till the final whistle.
I have to agree that the atmosphere was non-existent, I was in Trinity (yeah I know...) and it was my first game since being back in the country and I tried to encourage the team (plus a fair bit of moaning) but everyone else was completely quiet. Could have heard a mouse fart. It's embarrassing, it's hard to start singing when you're the only one in a whole stand.
To be fair, it's probably a result of the dross being served up for a few years now, the away support is phenomenal.
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He still gets my support for now. But if he keeps playing Delph over Bannan and keeping Bent on the bench, then that support will fade pretty quickly. We give these managers so much respect for their so called knowledge of the game, yet anybody with half a brain can see we need somebody that can pass the ball and bring our strikers into the game. Let's hope PL doesn't go the way of the typical overated distinctly mediocre stuborn managers we have had to endure at VP of late.
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I still can't believe I have to see this thread everytime I login to this website. Any of you who think Lambert is not an improvement on the sacks of shit who were on the bench last year and did so much to destroy the great name of our club need to spend some time on the naughty step.
In what way is this season better than last so far? It isn't.
I didn't understand the mass jubilation when we got Lambert, in the same way I didn't understand the mass hysteria last season. Two shit managers, with a shit squad. What do you expect to happen on the pitch? The only difference is one of them didn't work for that lot down the road.
I didn't get this either, his appointment was truly underwhelming.
There is a huge difference in approach, that is obvious. Lambert wants to win games and is prepared to try. Whether he has the skill to manage this bunch of players to get results is a moot point but at least he's trying.
I'd rather go down fighting than go down hiding.
I didn't see much fight yesterday.....unless you count a red card.
Agreed. I like Lambert and I agree with Adam that a different long-term plan is needed but saying that we're suddenly fighting and going for wins this season is just blinkered. We fought well against Newcastle, we played very well against Swansea and Man City, elsewhere we've been pretty poor or exceptionally poor. I've seen two games in the last couple of years, yesterday and home to Swansea under McLeish, to be honest, they were both dire and likely to induce long-lasting depression.
I also don't buy that it's not the manager's fault. It certainly was his fault yesterday, he picked the team, chose the tactics and substitutions and it appears that he's no idea what his best team/formation is.
What gets me is all the pushing forward looking for wins seems to have gone out of the window, that was a very negative performance yesterday. We're at home and our full backs barely got forward all afternoon.
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But had you heard of any of those players before Newcastle bought them?
When MON was paying way over the odds for experienced Premier League players we were clamouring for cheap foreign imports. Now we're getting cheap foreign imports some are clamouring for experienced Premier League players.
Who says we're fickle?
Come on now you sound like Shearer on MOTD when he'd never heard of Ben Arfa who'd played for France in euro 2008, Lyon in the champions league and had been previously linked with Arsenal or Demba Ba who'd been scoring goals for West Ham.
In fairness you could probably say all our signings in the summer were unknown bar Ron Vlaar who played a game or two for Holland in the euros this summer.
I'm not against getting cheap talent from home and abroad as long as they supplement good quality in the starting 11 and build up the squad.
It's a worry to me when we sign Lowton and Bennett and they instantly become our first choice full backs. Lowton has done o.k for me, Bennett looks to me like he needed another season in the championship.
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After eleven games, Lambert's definitely got to start taking his portion of the blame. We look as feeble and disorganised as we did on the opening day. And that's just not good enough. He's failed to implement a system that gets the best out of what we have, and he still clearly has no idea what his best eleven is. Shocking
I still put the vast majority of the blame for our dismal demise at Randy's door though. After raking in almost 70m from the sales of a quality midfield (Barry, Milner, Downing and Young) yesterdays midfield 4 cost approx 11m in total.
That's the reason we've gone to shit. We've tried to replace very good players with cheap squad ones. When we sold Downing & Young for a combined 38m, we should've spent the majority of it replacing them with at the very least, players of equal ability. Instead we spent 10m on N'Zogbia, who has never been a supplier, his stats were always stacked in favour of completed dribbles and a few goals rather than assists which both Young and Downing gave us in spades
How can N'Zogbia, be expected to replace TWO excellent creative players that provided us (and mainly Darren Bent) with so much pace, energy and a cutting edge ?
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I think the myth about who we like to think we can attract and who we really can attract was demonstrated when MON left - it was the Curbishleys and McClarens.
Except that's not quite right.
The likes of Koeman, Svennis and Rijkaard said they wanted to be considered for the post in 2010. We eventually got Houllier. A year later Sanchez Flores wanted the job.
Who we could attract and who Lerner wants are obviously two separate things though.
Deadbeats like Alan 'interesting' Curbishley and McLaren should have been nowhere near contention. McLeish shouldn't have even been in the top 100 candidates.
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I'll never understand the appointment of TSM.
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When they make a decision that bad, they can do anything.
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I have to say my reaction when we appointed PL was a bit mixed but at least (or so I thought) it was a damn sight more promising than TSM. And initially he made all the right noises about possession, young hungry players, tactics etc. But it all seems to have got stuck somewhere, and what looked like clever rotation to suit the opposition and keep everyone involved is starting to look like a manager who has lost the plot a bit, or who is desperately trying to find a combination that works after being dealt a shit hand.
If you look at post match threads, the fairly obvious faults are repeated by poster after poster - no width, no creativity, no leaders, no dynamism, insufficient PL experience, a poor/non-existent midfield, some academy and lower league signings lacking in PL quality. Yet, as always seems to be the case, the manager seems to be the last to see the painfully obvious.
It's still early days and it might just click. Yet yesterday, every man and his dog could see that bringing Bent on when down to 10 men was effectively taking us down to 9 men, and just about as wrong as you could get it - except Lambert. Which is a bit worrying.
But then I always wanted Jol as boss, or failing that (less impressively) Hughes.
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I'll never understand the appointment of TSM.
I don't think you are alone there.
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I'm not yet at the Lambert out stage but virtually all start of season optimism has evaporated. I'm also getting irritated by PL's interview style. It does nothing for me, can't see how he can whip up enthusiasm among the players. Frankly I struggle to understand what he's saying but then again I am a bit mutt these days. Pardon?
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I'm not yet at the Lambert out stage but virtually all start of season optimism has evaporated. I'm also getting irritated by PL's interview style. It does nothing for me, can't see how he can whip up enthusiasm among the players. Frankly I struggle to understand what he's saying but then again I am a bit mutt these days. Pardon?
He does have a tendency to mumble a bit in interviews, I always have to turn up the sound.
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Looking through rose tinted glasses you can argue that if those Benteke sitters had gone in against Spurs and Fulham and the enforced changes in defence in particular hadn't happened we may well have a few more points.
You can also look at the squad and argue our best performers this season are Lambert buys i.e. Guzan, Vlaar, Benteke and Lowton.
Lets hope that after seeing his team play against his old team he has no more doubts about his current squad and picks a settled eleven built around those 4 plus the best of the rest which for me includes Ireland .
I would guess a few of the academy players won't be close to the first team by the end of the season.
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He needs time, and Vlaar, Benteke and Lowton look excellent business, as does re-signing Guzan. Problem is our weakest area is midfield, KEA looks too weak at the moment, or looks like he needs a couple of players with some idea around him. The selection of Delph and Albrighton at the weekend baffled me, as they both look bobbins. Westwood and Ireland in and go narrow three, make Gabby come from wide as much as he hates it he is our best threat out there and have Holman on the other. If need be play Holman in the centre with Ireland and KEA even - he works hard enough. He may have to go back on Clark only playing centre half if it carries on and stick him in the centre of the park with Baker at the back to stop us being walked through. Not sure how Delph has leapfrogged Herd in the centre either for that matter.
Should have got blood Reo Coker back for 12 months.
Oh and Dunne getting fit would be useful!
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He needs time, and Vlaar, Benteke and Lowton look excellent business, as does re-signing Guzan. Problem is our weakest area is midfield, KEA looks too weak at the moment, or looks like he needs a couple of players with some idea around him. The selection of Delph and Albrighton at the weekend baffled me, as they both look bobbins. Westwood and Ireland in and go narrow three, make Gabby come from wide as much as he hates it he is our best threat out there and have Holman on the other. If need be play Holman in the centre with Ireland and KEA even - he works hard enough. He may have to go back on Clark only playing centre half if it carries on and stick him in the centre of the park with Baker at the back to stop us being walked through. Not sure how Delph has leapfrogged Herd in the centre either for that matter.
Should have got blood Reo Coker back for 12 months.
Oh and Dunne getting fit would be useful!
The narrow three included Albrighton,at times yesterday he was playing in the middle.The space down the right was massive but Mark kept going into the middle.The manager must of told him to play like that,which is why he played for 90 minutes.
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Sometimes in these situations you need a big personality who'll rouse the troops, kick a few asses. I mean Lambert doesn't play favourites which is good, but I don't see him being the sort of guy who can send a team on the pitch to start, or on a second half, ready to tear shit up. Hate going back to O Neill so I won't, but even someone like Allardyce is good at getting his team fired up. There's more passion, confidence, determination. He won't stand for a bunch of scared boys, nervously trapsing round the pitch. Lambert seems a bit lacking in motivational skill. You obviously don't need to be a shouting raving bollocker to succeed in management, but you need a strong personality.
Lambert has to adapt. He's got to add more to his own game to add more to ours. If he doesn't we go down. Much as I don't like Big Sams style of football by any stretch, we wouldn't get relegated with him. Blackburn made an error sacking him. They'd still be up if he stayed. Likewise I expect WH to finish comfortably mid-table. Players like him it seems. They work for him, but I don't see him making that little bit of difference with the rousing team talk, or like Allardyce or pubehead getting that extra 10% out of average players.
If he gets a bit of the old school fire and thunder about him, with his more modern ethos we could go places. So far he's sticking to his guns in terms of what he wants, and it's not working. That's the worry. Either it starts working, or he has to shift a little, or we go down.
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Ozzjim's picked about the closest team to what I would, which has surprised me. The only thing I'd disagree on is Westwood. He can't be very impressive in training if, as one of PL's signings, he can't get a sniff in front of Delph.
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The big worry for me is that you would expect as the season progresses for Lambert's players to start to gel and for him to establish a style of play which will work with the players he has in the squad. The real bummer about that Norwich game is that Lambert seems no closer to climbing up the learning curve than he was at the start of the season. I fear that it will be back to square one in January and the drafting in of players to keep us in the Premiership. The one thing which managers do not have is time. You will know when we are about to change to Plan B when he starts asking the fans to be patient.
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Apologies for feeling a bit glass half empty at the moment but on the assumption that we might scrape a point at Sunderland, but can't see anything but defeats in the next 3, we could very easily have 6 or 7 points from 13 games. This would leave us needing around 34 points from 25 games - or wins and or/draws in about half our remaining games. It is going to need a monumental turn around in our performances to achieve that.
If Lerner does loosen the purse strings, I fear it will be too late, even if Lambert was able to find the right experience and quality at what is normally a difficult time to do good business.
It feel as grim as the mid 80's at the moment.
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Ozzjim's picked about the closest team to what I would, which has surprised me. The only thing I'd disagree on is Westwood. He can't be very impressive in training if, as one of PL's signings, he can't get a sniff in front of Delph.
Everything I've heard about Westwood is positive , seems to be comfortable in possession and a very good passer , lets give him a go at Sunderland - cant be any worse than recent choices.
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He needs time, and Vlaar, Benteke and Lowton look excellent business, as does re-signing Guzan. Problem is our weakest area is midfield, KEA looks too weak at the moment, or looks like he needs a couple of players with some idea around him. The selection of Delph and Albrighton at the weekend baffled me, as they both look bobbins. Westwood and Ireland in and go narrow three, make Gabby come from wide as much as he hates it he is our best threat out there and have Holman on the other. If need be play Holman in the centre with Ireland and KEA even - he works hard enough. He may have to go back on Clark only playing centre half if it carries on and stick him in the centre of the park with Baker at the back to stop us being walked through. Not sure how Delph has leapfrogged Herd in the centre either for that matter.
Should have got blood Reo Coker back for 12 months.
Oh and Dunne getting fit would be useful!
The narrow three included Albrighton,at times yesterday he was playing in the middle.The space down the right was massive but Mark kept going into the middle.The manager must of told him to play like that,which is why he played for 90 minutes.
I noticed that as well. It might be the reason why he was'nt very effective.
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I'm not yet at the Lambert out stage but virtually all start of season optimism has evaporated. I'm also getting irritated by PL's interview style. It does nothing for me, can't see how he can whip up enthusiasm among the players. Frankly I struggle to understand what he's saying but then again I am a bit mutt these days. Pardon?
He does have a tendency to mumble a bit in interviews, I always have to turn up the sound.
He sounds like he's always got a mouthful of pork pie when he talks.
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I still cant believe Ireland is not getting in the team.
I know a lot of people on here do not like him but I think he has been alright when he has played this season , miles better than Delph , Albrighton and Gabby . in fact when hes play Villa have been in good positions score line wise , I remember him going off against soton 1-0 up and I think he played against Newcastle and Swansea when we looked good. I dont understand PL with that one.
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I still cant believe Ireland is not getting in the team.
I know a lot of people on here do not like him but I think he has been alright when he has played this season , miles better than Delph , Albrighton and Gabby . in fact when hes play Villa have been in good positions score line wise , I remember him going off against soton 1-0 up and I think he played against Newcastle and Swansea when we looked good. I dont understand PL with that one.
Agree completely, we look a better side with him in it for the most part. Part of that is that he replaces one of the awful players like Delph or Albrighton, but he's also played quite well.
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I still cant believe Ireland is not getting in the team.
There was a lot of talk from Ireland last week about "playing through the pain barrier", so he obviously isn't out of the woods injury wise.
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The big worry for me is that you would expect as the season progresses for Lambert's players to start to gel and for him to establish a style of play which will work with the players he has in the squad. The real bummer about that Norwich game is that Lambert seems no closer to climbing up the learning curve than he was at the start of the season. I fear that it will be back to square one in January and the drafting in of players to keep us in the Premiership. The one thing which managers do not have is time. You will know when we are about to change to Plan B when he starts asking the fans to be patient.
Very true the nature of money in football now means that you literally can't afford to be relegated. As a consequence even if you have long term plan, if the threat of relegation looms even just a little bit in January you spend money on players who don't meet that long term aim. So you're virtually always caught in a cycle of buying players to maintain Premier league status at the expense of those players who may be better overall in the long run.
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Hopefully the 1-2 players we need in January won't cause this problem. We need a controlling force in the middle of the park but after that I'd hope any other signings are similar to what we've seen, lots of potential to grow as a unit.
Of his signings only really Bennett is struggling so far (ignore bowery and westwood who haven't played enough), so I'd trust him to make more of a similar stature.
The only thing that's worried me is that he's dropped Bannan for Delph when Bannan was, in my opinion, looking like an important player for us. He just reads the game better, I still think Delph has a lot of potential and you see glimmers of it, but he seems to panic when teams close him down fast, Bannan has the technique to get away from people when that happens whereas Delph doesn't seem to.
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The last time we sacked three managers in three years was back in the 1960's. DickTaylor in 1967, Tommy Cummings in 1968 and Tommy Docherty in 1969 and that resulted in relegation to Division 3. Mind you the two years in that division were great fun! Thousands of Villa supporters taking over tiny grounds that most of us would have never visited had we not been relegated? Oh yes and a League Cup final!
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The last time we sacked three managers in three years was back in the 1960's. DickTaylor in 1967, Tommy Cummings in 1968 and Tommy Docherty in 1969 and that resulted in relegation to Division 3. Mind you the two years in that division were great fun! Thousands of Villa supporters taking over tiny grounds that most of us would have never visited had we not been relegated? Oh yes and a League Cup final!
The last time we sacked three managers in three years was back in the 1960's. DickTaylor in 1967, Tommy Cummings in 1968 and Tommy Docherty in 1969 and that resulted in relegation to Division 3. Mind you the two years in that division were great fun! Thousands of Villa supporters taking over tiny grounds that most of us would have never visited had we not been relegated? Oh yes and a League Cup final!
The last time we sacked three managers in three years was back in the 1960's. DickTaylor in 1967, Tommy Cummings in 1968 and Tommy Docherty in 1969 and that resulted in relegation to Division 3. Mind you the two years in that division were great fun! Thousands of Villa supporters taking over tiny grounds that most of us would have never visited had we not been relegated? Oh yes and a League Cup final!
Welcome to the site - good first post.
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The last time we sacked three managers in three years was back in the 1960's. DickTaylor in 1967, Tommy Cummings in 1968 and Tommy Docherty in 1969 and that resulted in relegation to Division 3. Mind you the two years in that division were great fun! Thousands of Villa supporters taking over tiny grounds that most of us would have never visited had we not been relegated? Oh yes and a League Cup final!
The last time we sacked three managers in three years was back in the 1960's. DickTaylor in 1967, Tommy Cummings in 1968 and Tommy Docherty in 1969 and that resulted in relegation to Division 3. Mind you the two years in that division were great fun! Thousands of Villa supporters taking over tiny grounds that most of us would have never visited had we not been relegated? Oh yes and a League Cup final!
The last time we sacked three managers in three years was back in the 1960's. DickTaylor in 1967, Tommy Cummings in 1968 and Tommy Docherty in 1969 and that resulted in relegation to Division 3. Mind you the two years in that division were great fun! Thousands of Villa supporters taking over tiny grounds that most of us would have never visited had we not been relegated? Oh yes and a League Cup final!
Welcome to the site - good first post.
So good you quoted it three times?! ;)
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Looks like we all, rightly, think that it's too early to start thinking about PLs departure. Just under the heading of idly speculating, I wonder what will happen when Randy returns to Brum in 2 weeks time (according to Meaning Evil). If we have had 2/3 bad results in that time, do we think things will be more than a little tense?
At the moment this s our worst start since 1969 - 3 more defeats, how long will be then 50, 60 years. Is there any possibility that Randy will react badly to that or indeed that PL will respond by walking away?
Hopefully common sense will prevail but there's no getting away from how critical the next few weeks are.
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I bet Lerner's head is spinning like the girl in the Exorcist. It lloks like he knew he messed up with the McLeish appointment, so appoints a popular replacement, gives him £20m, and the rate of decline then gets worse than ever! I almost feel sorry for him.
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I bet Lerner's head is spinning like the girl in the Exorcist. It lloks like he knew he messed up with the McLeish appointment, so appoints a popular replacement, gives him £20m, and the rate of decline then gets worse than ever! I almost feel sorry for him.
In my opinion we have the right manager. My worry is that the damage was already done over the previous couple of years and that the job of rebuilding was just too big for whoever took it on.
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I bet Lerner's head is spinning like the girl in the Exorcist. It lloks like he knew he messed up with the McLeish appointment, so appoints a popular replacement, gives him £20m, and the rate of decline then gets worse than ever! I almost feel sorry for him.
I doubt he expected such an awful start to the season , would love to be a fly on the wall at his meeting with lambert in November.
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I was excited about the younger players being brought in to integrate with the likes of Dunne, Given, Bent, Ireland, N'Zogbia, but it seems they have been brought in as replacements for these guys which is worrying. Also the passing philosophy of the early games with the likes of Ireland and Bannan trying to create for Bent has been replaced with a policy of industry over guile and creativity across midfield and forward ranks as far as I can tell. We wont be able to shift Given, Dunne, Bent, Ireland, N'Zogbia, Warnock, Makoun and Hutton in the next window and I fear waiting for their contracts to expire before refreshing the squad will see us go down in the meantime. Even with money to spend we only seem to be buying from the cheaper end of the market and more Lowtons/Bennetts etc may not be enough to see us clear anyway.
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If TSM had had the start PL has had we would of been burning effigy's of him!
This is our worst start since the relegation season of 86/87.
I agree he needs more time, but and here is the big but, perhaps Villa is too big a job for him?
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I think we'll be ok to be honest although the start is'nt the greatest.
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The last time we sacked three managers in three years was back in the 1960's. DickTaylor in 1967, Tommy Cummings in 1968 and Tommy Docherty in 1969 and that resulted in relegation to Division 3. Mind you the two years in that division were great fun! Thousands of Villa supporters taking over tiny grounds that most of us would have never visited had we not been relegated? Oh yes and a League Cup final!
Welcome to the site - good first post.
I don't think we sacked Houllier did we? Didn't he retire or at least leave by mutual agreement on health grounds?
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I still cant believe Ireland is not getting in the team.
There was a lot of talk from Ireland last week about "playing through the pain barrier", so he obviously isn't out of the woods injury wise.
but all the fans are watching through the pain barrier too. Half a bottle of whisky normally does it for me.
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I was excited about the younger players being brought in to integrate with the likes of Dunne, Given, Bent, Ireland, N'Zogbia, but it seems they have been brought in as replacements for these guys which is worrying. Also the passing philosophy of the early games with the likes of Ireland and Bannan trying to create for Bent has been replaced with a policy of industry over guile and creativity across midfield and forward ranks as far as I can tell. We wont be able to shift Given, Dunne, Bent, Ireland, N'Zogbia, Warnock, Makoun and Hutton in the next window and I fear waiting for their contracts to expire before refreshing the squad will see us go down in the meantime. Even with money to spend we only seem to be buying from the cheaper end of the market and more Lowtons/Bennetts etc may not be enough to see us clear anyway.
when PL came I was hoping we were going to be like a Holland with the football but we have turned into England.
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My worry is that Mcleish used all our good luck last season. I thought we started to look better after we scored, and would probably have won untill the sending off which i still think was a bit harsh. I don t think we are getting the rub of the green despite the effort we are putting in.
Im hoping we are going to win one of those big games coming up against man utd, citeh or arsenal, I think if we manage to do that, it might kick start our season!
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My biggest worry with Lambert is his substitutions. He got them (very) wrong against Norwich and Spurs. To the point where I think it may have cost us points.
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The last time we sacked three managers in three years was back in the 1960's. DickTaylor in 1967, Tommy Cummings in 1968 and Tommy Docherty in 1969 and that resulted in relegation to Division 3. Mind you the two years in that division were great fun! Thousands of Villa supporters taking over tiny grounds that most of us would have never visited had we not been relegated? Oh yes and a League Cup final!
Welcome to the site - good first post.
I don't think we sacked Houllier did we? Didn't he retire or at least leave by mutual agreement on health grounds?
Something like that. We've only sacked one manager in about 18 years.
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We can`t deny its been a shocking start to the Season, but PL was dealt a crap hand to start with, a threadbare squad, shorn of its best players and increasingly reliant on untried/unproven/underachieving (think Albrighton), Youth team players, add to this, a Chairman who seems to have lost interest, and an ever dwindling pot of money to strenghthen the side with. We have, at present, no alternative but to Keep faith with PL, and i think we will, but i just wonder, if the form continues to flatline the way it is, at what point RL would make a change. He may have to, i fear, because this can`t carry on forever.
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We can`t deny its been a shocking start to the Season, but PL was dealt a crap hand to start with, a threadbare squad, shorn of its best players and increasingly reliant on untried/unproven/underachieving (think Albrighton), Youth team players, add to this, a Chairman who seems to have lost interest, and an ever dwindling pot of money to strenghthen the side with. We have, at present, no alternative but to Keep faith with PL, and i think we will, but i just wonder, if the form continues to flatline the way it is, at what point RL would make a change. He may have to, i fear, because this can`t carry on forever.
lambert is here for the foreseeable so get used to it and support him.
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My biggest worry with Lambert is his substitutions. He got them (very) wrong against Norwich and Spurs. To the point where I think it may have cost us points.
The narrow diamond formation cost us a lot of points too. Hopefully weve seen the back of that.
Left Back is an area of particular concern though.
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I'm sure its been said before, but should the unthinkable happen and we end up playing Championship football next year, we should still stick with Lambert. Its becoming increasingly clear that he might not quite be the managerial genius some were expecting, but he sure as hell knows how to get teams promoted.
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I'm sure its been said before, but should the unthinkable happen and we end up playing Championship football next year, we should still stick with Lambert. Its becoming increasingly clear that he might not quite be the managerial genius some were expecting, but he sure as hell knows how to get teams promoted.
Not a lot of fucking good if he's incapable of keeping teams in the top flight.
If we go down I would fully expect him to be out on his arse and rightly so.
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I'm sure its been said before, but should the unthinkable happen and we end up playing Championship football next year, we should still stick with Lambert. Its becoming increasingly clear that he might not quite be the managerial genius some were expecting, but he sure as hell knows how to get teams promoted.
Not a lot of fucking good if he's incapable of keeping teams in the top flight.
If we go down I would fully expect him to be out on his arse and rightly so.
Have to agree Rip. We're nowhere near the point of needing a change of manager but if he took us down he'd have been an abject failure. I find it bizarre people would see it otherwise.
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Also, TSM got teams promoted. Can't imagine too many on here would have wanted him to stay on if last year would've seen us relegated.
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I think we should give him 3 season even he took us down. Paul Lambert got a bigger job than we thought, and he would identify by now what he needed to do in January to improve the situation and his scout would be working hard to recommend players from German Football and aboard.
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I'd stick with him even if we went down.
What would be the point in replacing him? Who with?
It's not like he has a fatal defect like McLeish does with his defence obsessed anti-football bollocks.
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Stick with him whatever, as I say I can see what he's trying to do. It's not working at the moment, but the idea is a lot more appealing than Mcleish's plan. Also at least three of his signings look very good players at the moment, Westwood, Benteke and Lowton.
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I'd stick with him even if we went down.
What would be the point in replacing him? Who with?
It's not like he has a fatal defect like McLeish does with his defence obsessed anti-football bollocks.
I find that surprising Paulie, is it apathy talking?
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I'm sure its been said before, but should the unthinkable happen and we end up playing Championship football next year, we should still stick with Lambert. Its becoming increasingly clear that he might not quite be the managerial genius some were expecting, but he sure as hell knows how to get teams promoted.
We won't get relegated but if bad luck does strike Lambert must stay. We are rebuilding the club.
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As we're not going down it doesn't matter anyway. But IF we did drop i'd be tempted to keep him for the simple reason at some stage we've got to start having stability. Another new season, another new manager, another set of coaches and back to square one.
It would also depend on how we went down. If we finished bottom with 12 points then of course that would be a whole different kettle of fish.
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If the rebuilding PL is doing now doesn't work, when he has the draw of being a premier league club, how can people be confident it would it work in the Championship (with less wages to offer and a VERY tough league to get promoted from)? Also a league where Villa would be the biggest scalp in years.
I like the cut of his jib and wish him well, but relegation this year would be disastrous for Villa and for my money would also mean that Paul Lambert hadn't cut it. We've been in the top flight for a couple of decades and have been relatively successful to most other teams in the land. How is it that a manager taking us down, when one that was so utterly despised didn't, OK? You bunch of oddballs ;)
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I'd keep him too. The damage has been caused by the instability of the constant change in styles and personnel. I also think the team will come good given time.
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It doesn't seem to me your big problem is the manager, although I have to say he doesn't exactly inspire confidence that you'll start climbing the table any time soon. It just seems to be you've lost too many decent players too soon and replaced them with inferior counterparts that don't seem to go together to form a balanced side.
Scoring goals is the main problem at the moment. You've got the goalscorers, but you're not getting the service to them which suggests a problem with the midfield.
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It doesn't seem to me your big problem is the manager, although I have to say he doesn't exactly inspire confidence that you'll start climbing the table any time soon. It just seems to be you've lost too many decent players too soon and replaced them with inferior counterparts that don't seem to go together to form a balanced side.
Scoring goals is the main problem at the moment. You've got the goalscorers, but you're not getting the service to them which suggests a problem with the midfield.
Fancy a job Sendo?
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I wouldn't have to speak with a Scottish accent and send people to sleep in my post match interviews would I?
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I wouldn't have to speak with a Scottish accent and send people to sleep in my post match interviews would I?
No, we had McLeish for that
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He is a top manager in the making. Long term even if relegated sticking by him will bring rewards. We have to give someone the time to sort it and re invent in their own image.
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No, we had McLeish for that
You've got Lambert for that too...
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Sooner have that than Sam.
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No, we had McLeish for that
You've got Lambert for that too...
Don't try and deflect away from your boring Black Country bozo
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Sooner have that than Sam.
I wouldn't. The football and the results are far worse than what Allardyce is managing at West Ham.
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I'd keep him too. The damage has been caused by the instability of the constant change in styles and personnel. I also think the team will come good given time.
This. I might look into changing the board though.
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Sooner have that than Sam.
I wouldn't. The football and the results are far worse than what Allardyce is managing at West Ham.
Did you want Sam over Lambert in the summer?
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Sooner have that than Sam.
I wouldn't. The football and the results are far worse than what Allardyce is managing at West Ham.
Did you want Sam over Lambert in the summer?
I'd have chosen him over Lambert this summer.
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Sooner have that than Sam.
I wouldn't. The football and the results are far worse than what Allardyce is managing at West Ham.
Did you want Sam over Lambert in the summer?
I'd have chosen him over Lambert this summer.
Not what you said in the summer.
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Sooner have that than Sam.
I wouldn't. The football and the results are far worse than what Allardyce is managing at West Ham.
Did you want Sam over Lambert in the summer?
I'd have chosen him over Lambert this summer.
Is the grass always greener on the other side of the fence to you!
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Sooner have that than Sam.
I wouldn't. The football and the results are far worse than what Allardyce is managing at West Ham.
Did you want Sam over Lambert in the summer?
I'd have chosen him over Lambert this summer.
Not what you said in the summer.
I've always rated Allardyce. As I said in the summer: "Allardyce worked miracles at Bolton."
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It's the constant chopping and changing of the management side of the club over the last three years that have landed us in the sh*t we find ourselves in at the present. Another change of manager now with all the instability that it would bring, new gaffer, new coaches and probably a new style of play would only serve to make us even more likely to be relegated.
What AVFC needs now more than anything else is stability on the managerial/coaching side of things.
Yes things are going to be a bit hairy this season but I don't believe we will be relegated.
Give Paul Lambert time and I reckon that he will turn us around. Yes I know that people want instant success but real life isn't like that.
Oh and by the way Randy can always point to Carrow Road last season and say "well you guys wanted him so you only have yourselves to blame."
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Sooner have that than Sam.
I wouldn't. The football and the results are far worse than what Allardyce is managing at West Ham.
Did you want Sam over Lambert in the summer?
I'd have chosen him over Lambert this summer.
Not what you said in the summer.
I've always rated Allardyce. As I said in the summer: "Allardyce worked miracles at Bolton."
You also said...."I would go for Lambert, I really would" indicating him as your choice. Strange that 12 games in with a pretty inexperienced new side rather than look for any positives you seem to constantly bang the drum of the negative. Give him time.
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It's the constant selling of our better players, and the appointing of rubbish managers that have landed us in the shite I think you'll find. Houllier and McLeish were dreadful appointments, and so far Lambert isn't proving to be any better.
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You also said...."I would go for Lambert, I really would" indicating him as your choice. Strange that 12 games in with a pretty inexperienced new side rather than look for any positives you seem to constantly bang the drum of the negative. Give him time.
He bought most of the inexperienced players! Time is something we don't have.
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You also said...."I would go for Lambert, I really would" indicating him as your choice. Strange that 12 games in with a pretty inexperienced new side rather than look for any positives you seem to constantly bang the drum of the negative. Give him time.
He bought most of the inexperienced players! Time is something we don't have.
Because shelling out millions on proven premiership players was getting us a long way wasn't it? If you asked for a 99 with a flake, and got one, you would be critical of the lack of sauce and sprinkles.
It is all too knee jerk. McLeish got longer with most fans that you are giving Lambert.
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It's the constant chopping and changing of the management side of the club over the last three years that have landed us in the sh*t we find ourselves in at the present. Another change of manager now with all the instability that it would bring, new gaffer, new coaches and probably a new style of play would only serve to make us even more likely to be relegated.
What AVFC needs now more than anything else is stability on the managerial/coaching side of things.
Yes things are going to be a bit hairy this season but I don't believe we will be relegated.
Give Paul Lambert time and I reckon that he will turn us around. Yes I know that people want instant success but real life isn't like that.
Oh and by the way Randy can always point to Carrow Road last season and say "well you guys wanted him so you only have yourselves to blame."
Hear, hear. (waves copy of H&V)
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You also said...."I would go for Lambert, I really would" indicating him as your choice. Strange that 12 games in with a pretty inexperienced new side rather than look for any positives you seem to constantly bang the drum of the negative. Give him time.
He bought most of the inexperienced players! Time is something we don't have.
Wasn't that to be expected though as it's what he's always done before he joined us?
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You also said...."I would go for Lambert, I really would" indicating him as your choice. Strange that 12 games in with a pretty inexperienced new side rather than look for any positives you seem to constantly bang the drum of the negative. Give him time.
He bought most of the inexperienced players! Time is something we don't have.
Because shelling out millions on proven premiership players was getting us a long way wasn't it? If you asked for a 99 with a flake, and got one, you would be critical of the lack of sauce and sprinkles.
It is all too knee jerk. McLeish got longer with most fans that you are giving Lambert.
Sigh. It is possible to buy GOOD proven players you know, just because McLeish couldn't manage it.
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You also said...."I would go for Lambert, I really would" indicating him as your choice. Strange that 12 games in with a pretty inexperienced new side rather than look for any positives you seem to constantly bang the drum of the negative. Give him time.
He bought most of the inexperienced players! Time is something we don't have.
Wasn't that to be expected though as it's what he's always done before he joined us?
But then he'd only worked at a small club like Norwich, and had only one season in the Premier League. I've never bought a Ferrari but if you gave me a million quid tomorrow I would.
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I think we have to give Lambert time whatever happens this season, he may be learning on the job and it might be at our expense. We can not go on the manager roundabout any more. Every declining club that takes that route sinks even quicker.
We are a Club in serious decline, there is no doubt about that. The only thing we can be hopefull for is that we have a manager with his own ideas, a squad of many young and determined players that seem to want to play for the shirt.
There are still many legacy issues that Lambert has to be given time to resolve. Dunne, Hutton, Nzogbia, Ireland? Given?
I think there is a very good chance that we will go down this season and I would still keep Lambert unless of course he loses the plot.
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You also said...."I would go for Lambert, I really would" indicating him as your choice. Strange that 12 games in with a pretty inexperienced new side rather than look for any positives you seem to constantly bang the drum of the negative. Give him time.
He bought most of the inexperienced players! Time is something we don't have.
Wasn't that to be expected though as it's what he's always done before he joined us?
But then he'd only worked at a small club like Norwich, and had only one season in the Premier League. I've never bought a Ferrari but if you gave me a million quid tomorrow I would.
He went for Vlaar and KEA who are experienced but obviously not in England. His transfers so far were pretty much along the lines that I expected from him. Young lower league and overseas players.
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You also said...."I would go for Lambert, I really would" indicating him as your choice. Strange that 12 games in with a pretty inexperienced new side rather than look for any positives you seem to constantly bang the drum of the negative. Give him time.
He bought most of the inexperienced players! Time is something we don't have.
Because shelling out millions on proven premiership players was getting us a long way wasn't it? If you asked for a 99 with a flake, and got one, you would be critical of the lack of sauce and sprinkles.
It is all too knee jerk. McLeish got longer with most fans that you are giving Lambert.
Sigh. It is possible to buy GOOD proven players you know, just because McLeish couldn't manage it.
It is, Vlaar is one. But then if you had 25 million and needed 7-8 players to make a squad, with some of the ones we had already, surely the route taken was quite logical. Proven players cost a lot of money, and even more in wages.
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It's quite simple really, we either continue along the road we are currently on, one of financial stability and a slow but painful rebuilding job or we go for the shit or bust scenario of fleeting glory (see Leeds or Pompey) and any self respecting Villa fan would hopefully vote for the sensible option.
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We should keep faith with Lambert whatever happens this season. But I don't think we'll be relegated anyway.
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It doesn't seem to me your big problem is the manager, although I have to say he doesn't exactly inspire confidence that you'll start climbing the table any time soon. It just seems to be you've lost too many decent players too soon and replaced them with inferior counterparts that don't seem to go together to form a balanced side.
Scoring goals is the main problem at the moment. You've got the goalscorers, but you're not getting the service to them which suggests a problem with the midfield.
Hi Sendo, when WHUFC last got relegated, when did you / the majority of fans realise you were down and accept it ? Pre Xmas ? Pre Easter ? Or was it total denial until the inevitable?
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Forgive me for butting in, but IMO they were probably still hopeful when they went in front against us through Keane at Upton Park. I think if they had beaten us that day they probably would have caught us.
I only comment as that's the point up to which I was still cacking myself.
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Good point Percy, I was wondering if most fans still have hope until its mathematically impossible.
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Good point Percy, I was wondering if most fans still have hope until its mathematically impossible.
I think most fans go bipolar, believing (maybe hoping) it can be done till the the fat lady sings, but at the same time shitting bricks if they're anywhere near the relegation spots at any time of the season.
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It's quite simple really, we either continue along the road we are currently on, one of financial stability and a slow but painful rebuilding job or we go for the shit or bust scenario of fleeting glory (see Leeds or Pompey) and any self respecting Villa fan would hopefully vote for the sensible option.
Of course, there's no happy medium in between.
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Regarding our current transfer policy (if that's what it is, rather than trying to fill each position with exactly the player the manager wants), if Lambert's satisfied with who he's buying then I accept that. But there's more to management than buying players. I'm just disillusioned with the 'new beginning' with Lambert because I can't tell if we're where we are because our manager has bought players who lack quality, or he's bought appropriate players but isn't up to it tactcs wise.
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sack him now, lets be as high and mighty as chelsea!
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I personally do not agree that Lambert's signings lack quality, it is one thing they appear to all have. The qualities they appear to possess are hard work, lack of preciousness and a real willing to put themselves into a game. These are not necessarily the ones that are going to bring instant success, but for me it is a welcome change from the previous years where we have seen as many bad qualities in players as good ones.
They need time to develop as a team and although it seems it is not going to happen as quickly as we would want (to put it mildly), the players he has bought have all shown potential individually and occasionally collectively.
I still get irked by people writing off players because of one bad game or a drop in form or confidence-it happens to the best and the worst and the measure is how you deal with it. Don't forget all the previous Villa players written off as absolute donkeys and yet many of them are still performing at the highest level in the Premier League at clubs doing better than us at present.
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Sooner have that than Sam.
I wouldn't. The football and the results are far worse than what Allardyce is managing at West Ham.
Did you want Sam over Lambert in the summer?
I'd have chosen him over Lambert this summer.
I don't remember you calling for him to get the job this summer.
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http://www.thefa.com/News/governance/2012/nov/paul-lambert-fined.aspx
Aston Villa manager to serve one-match touchline ban
Aston Villa manager Paul Lambert has admitted a breach of FA Rule E3.
It relates to language and/or behaviour amounting to improper conduct following his side’s game at Manchester City on 17 November 2012.
Lambert accepted the standard penalty for the charge and will now serve a one-match touchline ban to commence with immediate effect.
He has also been fined £8,000.
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I saw a couple of people calling for Allardyce but they were on the wind up.
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http://www.thefa.com/News/governance/2012/nov/paul-lambert-fined.aspx
Aston Villa manager to serve one-match touchline ban
Aston Villa manager Paul Lambert has admitted a breach of FA Rule E3.
It relates to language and/or behaviour amounting to improper conduct following his side’s game at Manchester City on 17 November 2012.
Lambert accepted the standard penalty for the charge and will now serve a one-match touchline ban to commence with immediate effect.
He has also been fined £8,000.
and what about the twat of a linesman, what will happen to him the blind arsehole!
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It's the constant chopping and changing of the management side of the club over the last three years that have landed us in the sh*t we find ourselves in at the present. Another change of manager now with all the instability that it would bring, new gaffer, new coaches and probably a new style of play would only serve to make us even more likely to be relegated.
What AVFC needs now more than anything else is stability on the managerial/coaching side of things.
Yes things are going to be a bit hairy this season but I don't believe we will be relegated.
Give Paul Lambert time and I reckon that he will turn us around. Yes I know that people want instant success but real life isn't like that.
Oh and by the way Randy can always point to Carrow Road last season and say "well you guys wanted him so you only have yourselves to blame."
Spot on!!!
Lets build something worthwhile, no matter what ups and downs we may have along the way
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Sooner have that than Sam.
I wouldn't. The football and the results are far worse than what Allardyce is managing at West Ham.
Did you want Sam over Lambert in the summer?
I'd have chosen him over Lambert this summer.
I don't remember you calling for him to get the job this summer.
nobody did. Following on from McLeish this place would have melted down had we been seriously linked with Allardyce let alone appoint him.
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I'd go as far as to say that after McLeish, Allardyce would have been the only appointment they could have made which would have alienated the fanbase more.
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We need to stop this talk of getting rid of Lambert - its stupid and silly and is going to be so devisive and counter productive and makes absolutley no sense what so ever on any level ......just my opinion obviously ! :)
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We need to stop this talk of getting rid of Lambert - its stupid and silly and is going to be so devisive and counter productive and makes absolutley no sense what so ever on any level ......just my opinion obviously ! :)
I completely agree. The whole notion is utterly ludicrous.
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It's the constant chopping and changing of the management side of the club over the last three years that have landed us in the sh*t we find ourselves in at the present. Another change of manager now with all the instability that it would bring, new gaffer, new coaches and probably a new style of play would only serve to make us even more likely to be relegated.
And if we were relegated, I'm not sure it would help our chances of coming straight back up.
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There's also the question - if we went down and sacked Lambert, what sort of manager would we be looking at as a replacement?
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It's the constant chopping and changing of the management side of the club over the last three years that have landed us in the sh*t we find ourselves in at the present. Another change of manager now with all the instability that it would bring, new gaffer, new coaches and probably a new style of play would only serve to make us even more likely to be relegated.
And if we were relegated, I'm not sure it would help our chances of coming straight back up.
Not getting relegated would give us absolutely no chance of coming straight back up.
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Forgive me for butting in, but IMO they were probably still hopeful when they went in front against us through Keane at Upton Park. I think if they had beaten us that day they probably would have caught us.
I only comment as that's the point up to which I was still cacking myself.
When I talk about two relegation scraps in a row (looking increasingly like three now) I usually get told we finished ninth that season and suppose we should simply forget that we were indeed cacking ourselves right up until April.
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It's the constant chopping and changing of the management side of the club over the last three years that have landed us in the sh*t we find ourselves in at the present. Another change of manager now with all the instability that it would bring, new gaffer, new coaches and probably a new style of play would only serve to make us even more likely to be relegated.
And if we were relegated, I'm not sure it would help our chances of coming straight back up.
Not getting relegated would give us absolutely no chance of coming straight back up.
Absolutely, and ultimately I don't think we will be.
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I'd go as far as to say that after McLeish, Allardyce would have been the only appointment they could have made which would have alienated the fanbase more.
Trevor Francis.
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Good point Percy, I was wondering if most fans still have hope until its mathematically impossible.
I think most fans go bipolar, believing (maybe hoping) it can be done till the the fat lady sings, but at the same time shitting bricks if they're anywhere near the relegation spots at any time of the season.
I left Villa Park after the Bolton game at the end of last season thinking that we were going down. I just couldn't see where we going to get any more points from and the teams around us were winning at the time. Thankfully we were able to get a couple of draws and the luck the other teams were having ran out, but the outlook was grim that Tuesday night.
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Reading next Tues could feel very much like Bolton of last season, or perhaps Sunderland at home under Houllier. Both very dank depressing evenings.
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Good point Percy, I was wondering if most fans still have hope until its mathematically impossible.
I think most fans go bipolar, believing (maybe hoping) it can be done till the the fat lady sings, but at the same time shitting bricks if they're anywhere near the relegation spots at any time of the season.
I left Villa Park after the Bolton game at the end of last season thinking that we were going down. I just couldn't see where we going to get any more points from and the teams around us were winning at the time. Thankfully we were able to get a couple of draws and the luck the other teams were having ran out, but the outlook was grim that Tuesday night.
That night was a mess. We was down. I just didn't think we'd stay up after that. Same as the Sunderland game with Houllier, and the 1-0 loss to Wolves too.
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The Bolton away under GED when we lost 2-3 was another low point.
Jeez there's been too many of late.
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It's the constant chopping and changing of the management side of the club over the last three years that have landed us in the sh*t we find ourselves in at the present. Another change of manager now with all the instability that it would bring, new gaffer, new coaches and probably a new style of play would only serve to make us even more likely to be relegated.
And if we were relegated, I'm not sure it would help our chances of coming straight back up.
No one would touch us with a long pole, well no one with any sense and quality.
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The Bolton away under GED when we lost 2-3 was another low point.
Jeez there's been too many of late.
I seriously believe our decline began in that home game with Stoke under MON.
I honestly think I felt more deflated after that than after the CC final.
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The Bolton away under GED when we lost 2-3 was another low point.
Jeez there's been too many of late.
I seriously believe our decline began in that home game with Stoke under MON.
I honestly think I felt more deflated after that than after the CC final.
I still think the Wigan match a few weeks earlier was the start of it.
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The Bolton away under GED when we lost 2-3 was another low point.
Jeez there's been too many of late.
I seriously believe our decline began in that home game with Stoke under MON.
I honestly think I felt more deflated after that than after the CC final.
I still think the Wigan match a few weeks earlier was the start of it.
That Stoke game was a massive turning point. Fucking Stoke.
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The Bolton away under GED when we lost 2-3 was another low point.
Jeez there's been too many of late.
I seriously believe our decline began in that home game with Stoke under MON.
I honestly think I felt more deflated after that than after the CC final.
True enough, the whole Moscow saga seemed to really affect the mood around villa park.
I was shocked to the core when I heard the squad he'd taken out there.
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The Bolton away under GED when we lost 2-3 was another low point.
Jeez there's been too many of late.
I seriously believe our decline began in that home game with Stoke under MON.
I honestly think I felt more deflated after that than after the CC final.
I quite agree. That was the second major turning point after signing Heskey. All the belief just seemed to evaporate overnight.
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Stoke was the catalyst to a lot of things. Everything was perfect at 2-0. While Moscow was still an issue it would have been even more justified a decision had we gone on to win that game. The way that game ended was the beginning of the end. Moscow in my opinion was the first real challenge to MON from a larger percentage of the audience and the steep decline thereafter just threw more fuel on the fire. The feeling at the end of the game was just one of bewilderment and dismay. A very empty feeling.
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The Bolton away under GED when we lost 2-3 was another low point.
Jeez there's been too many of late.
I seriously believe our decline began in that home game with Stoke under MON.
I honestly think I felt more deflated after that than after the CC final.
I quite agree. That was the second major turning point after signing Heskey. All the belief just seemed to evaporate overnight.
Sitting here now and thinking back, I can still remember the sick feeling in the pit of my stomach as we trudged back to the car afterwards.
Looking around, you could see that everyone else thought we'd fucked it, too.
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Hi Sendo, when WHUFC last got relegated, when did you / the majority of fans realise you were down and accept it ? Pre Xmas ? Pre Easter ? Or was it total denial until the inevitable?
Good question. I'm not sure I could point to one particular point.
Our terrible start didn't bode well. Losing our opening 4 games conceding 3 goals in each game. Not picking up our second win until the end of November. We could all see the writing was on the wall when they failed to sack uncle Avram and lure in O'Neill over Christmas. Every game was the same lack of ideas and desire, the same mundanely average players flattering to deceive. We were given hope around February time winning 3 on the bounce including playing Liverpool off the park and thumping Stoke but it was a false dawn. We didn't win again for the rest of the season.
I guess in answer to your question, you sort of know at this point of the season deep down if your team looks like relegation material, but you always want to believe they can turn it around with a few signings in January and a couple of wins. I didn't truly believe we were down until we threw away a 2 goal lead at Wigan and were finally relegated.
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The Bolton away under GED when we lost 2-3 was another low point.
Jeez there's been too many of late.
I seriously believe our decline began in that home game with Stoke under MON.
I honestly think I felt more deflated after that than after the CC final.
I quite agree. That was the second major turning point after signing Heskey. All the belief just seemed to evaporate overnight.
Sitting here now and thinking back, I can still remember the sick feeling in the pit of my stomach as we trudged back to the car afterwards.
Looking around, you could see that everyone else thought we'd fucked it, too.
For me that was the time when i realised progress had stopped. The 'American dream' was not going to happen.
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I like the style of playing that Lambo is trying to give the team, and I'll always back our manager, but since the Norwich game I couldn't help but acknowledge the absolute mediocrity of our midfield.
The whole department has scored only one goal with KEA so far.
Bannan and Albrighton proved to be not good enough for the Premier League, Westwood is too inexperienced, Kea, Delph, Zog and Herd are of championship level, Ireland is quite gifted but shows a dramatic lack of continuity and consistency.
Apart from the injuried Gardner, Holman is the best and this speaks volumes about the value of our midfield.
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Hi Sendo, when WHUFC last got relegated, when did you / the majority of fans realise you were down and accept it ? Pre Xmas ? Pre Easter ? Or was it total denial until the inevitable?
Good question. I'm not sure I could point to one particular point.
Our terrible start didn't bode well. Losing our opening 4 games conceding 3 goals in each game. Not picking up our second win until the end of November. We could all see the writing was on the wall when they failed to sack uncle Avram and lure in O'Neill over Christmas. Every game was the same lack of ideas and desire, the same mundanely average players flattering to deceive. We were given hope around February time winning 3 on the bounce including playing Liverpool off the park and thumping Stoke but it was a false dawn. We didn't win again for the rest of the season.
I guess in answer to your question, you sort of know at this point of the season deep down if your team looks like relegation material, but you always want to believe they can turn it around with a few signings in January and a couple of wins. I didn't truly believe we were down until we threw away a 2 goal lead at Wigan and were finally relegated.
Thanks Sendo, that sounds worryingly familiar.
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The Bolton away under GED when we lost 2-3 was another low point.
Jeez there's been too many of late.
I seriously believe our decline began in that home game with Stoke under MON.
I honestly think I felt more deflated after that than after the CC final.
Glenn Whelans goal, it that 2-2 game was the beginning of the end.
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The Bolton away under GED when we lost 2-3 was another low point.
Jeez there's been too many of late.
I seriously believe our decline began in that home game with Stoke under MON.
I honestly think I felt more deflated after that than after the CC final.
I quite agree. That was the second major turning point after signing Heskey. All the belief just seemed to evaporate overnight.
Sitting here now and thinking back, I can still remember the sick feeling in the pit of my stomach as we trudged back to the car afterwards.
Looking around, you could see that everyone else thought we'd fucked it, too.
I remember standing in the queue for the train at Witton, sending expletives into the post match thread from my phone.
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The Bolton away under GED when we lost 2-3 was another low point.
Jeez there's been too many of late.
I seriously believe our decline began in that home game with Stoke under MON.
I honestly think I felt more deflated after that than after the CC final.
True enough, the whole Moscow saga seemed to really affect the mood around villa park.
I was shocked to the core when I heard the squad he'd taken out there.
Moscow was huge. That was the day I lost all faith in MON. It was like he took a a safety pin and pricked our bubble, deflating the whole club in the process.
I remember arguing that we lost our momentum after Moscow and that we actually harmed our chances of CL qualification by doing that. We could have been title contenders if we had kept the momentum and we had a big enough squad without having to send so many youngsters.
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The Bolton away under GED when we lost 2-3 was another low point.
Jeez there's been too many of late.
I seriously believe our decline began in that home game with Stoke under MON.
I honestly think I felt more deflated after that than after the CC final.
True enough, the whole Moscow saga seemed to really affect the mood around villa park.
I was shocked to the core when I heard the squad he'd taken out there.
Moscow was huge. That was the day I lost all faith in MON. It was like he took a a safety pin and pricked our bubble, deflating the whole club in the process.
I remember arguing that we lost our momentum after Moscow and that we actually harmed our chances of CL qualification by doing that. We could have been title contenders if we had kept the momentum and we had a big enough squad without having to send so many youngsters.
I agree, after Moscow I could sees mons mask slipping and things never felt the same under him again - it was a big mistake , having played all those games to get that far with a much stronger side and then to leave out our best players in the knockout stage was very bad management.
I think some of the top players were upset at missing out on playing after all the hard work in getting that far.
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That Moscow game really was the problem - It said to the senior players that really our ambition was negligable.
After all the hard work they had put in MON threw it in their face. I bet that was the day that Gareth Barry decided it was time to go
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I bet that was the day that Gareth Barry decided it was time to go
Difficult to say. If we'd have finished top 4 that year MON's gamble would have been vindicated and Barry would have had reason to think again. That's why to me, Stoke was the bigger turning point.
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I bet that was the day that Gareth Barry decided it was time to go
Difficult to say. If we'd have finished top 4 that year MON's gamble would have been vindicated and Barry would have had reason to think again. That's why to me, Stoke was the bigger turning point.
I think the two were linked , there was a negative feeling around the club after the Moscow game and the stoke game followed a few days later, we never really recovered from there.
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With O'Neill it felt like we were a few quality players away from challenging the top four so when we had Milner, Barry, Young etc we were almost there, on the brink. When Carew smashed that volley in against Stoke it seemed for all the world we would get into the top 4 that year. The Stoke comeback was sickening, following on the back of Moscow, and we have been in decline ever since really. We are so much further away from challenging now than when M'ON took over. I mean how can we possibly get near the top 4 with no money to spend and even the European Champions only managed 6th last season. It all feels pretty hopeless, but if we could nick a League Cup win like Blues did that would still be extremely satisfying, but probably the best we can ever hope for now. Still to be in the op 4 and constantly challenging yet not winning anything, like Arsenal, must also be incredibly frustrating anyway so no matter how well you're doing you'll always want more.
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I bet that was the day that Gareth Barry decided it was time to go
Difficult to say. If we'd have finished top 4 that year MON's gamble would have been vindicated and Barry would have had reason to think again. That's why to me, Stoke was the bigger turning point.
I think the two were linked , there was a negative feeling around the club after the Moscow game and the stoke game followed a few days later, we never really recovered from there.
See I'm not sure, I think the players would understand the MON's thinking re Moscow because most players would've preferred a shot a the CL the following season. The Stoke game on the other hand was a realisation for most that we probably weren't good enough to warrant a top 4 finish.
Other than being beaten by the Noses I can't remember feeling as gutted as I did walking to Aston station made worse by the Stoke fans goading us from their passing coaches.
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I agree that the fallout from the Moscow game and the subsequent draw with Stoke was pivotal. By essentially surrendering the fixture in Moscow, MON placed a huge amount of pressure on the following game. Too much pressure, ultimately. Had they come away with a victory, things may have turned out differently, but, when it went to 2-1, you just knew that it was a gamble that was about to backfire.
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Just looking back at the official website. After the Stoke game in March we were still fourth place. Six points ahead of Arsenal, and three behind Chelsea in second (Second?!) We were fifth and ten points behind Arsenal by the time we next won a match. Hull at home in the May. Two months without a win killed us.
For me, the key factors in the swing were the Moscow debate (I say debate because I really could see the merits in both arguements at the time, and still now. However, If he had just stuck with the same team there wouldn't be a debate to be had) The Stoke fiasco. Us signing Heskey, them signing Arshavin. If someone is bored enough, I'd love to see a comparison of goals and assists for that season for those two side by side. Actually, I don't think I would, and I think the answer is probably obvious!
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I agree that the fallout from the Moscow game and the subsequent draw with Stoke was pivotal. By essentially surrendering the fixture in Moscow, MON placed a huge amount of pressure on the following game. Too much pressure, ultimately. Had they come away with a victory, things may have turned out differently, but, when it went to 2-1, you just knew that it was a gamble that was about to backfire.
In fairness, the Stoke result was a complete freak. They were the worst side I'd seen at VP for a long time for 80 mins but we just went to pieces in those last 10 mins. I can remember screaming for O'Neill to shore up the midfield as Petrov was out on his feet and to slow the game down but he did nothing and we blew it. Still puzzled how the team seemed to completely switch off though.
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Just looking back at the official website. After the Stoke game in March we were still fourth place. Six points ahead of Arsenal, and three behind Chelsea in second (Second?!) We were fifth and ten points behind Arsenal by the time we next won a match. Hull at home in the May. Two months without a win killed us.
I think the thing about the Stoke game was that in really knocked the wind out of our sails, especially given the Moscow thing in the background. I'm a great believer in momentum for a football side and that just saped all of ours out of us and it took too long to recover mentally from it.
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we just went to pieces in those last 10 mins. I can remember screaming for O'Neill to shore up the midfield as Petrov was out on his feet and to slow the game down but he did nothing and we blew it.
Still feel angry when I read this.
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The difference too was that Arsenal had a bigger, better, fitter squad. We were dead on our feet for much of the last few months because O Neill rarely rotated, except in Europe of course. But most definitely, we haven't been the same since. You could feel the team falling apart somewhat. Finishing fourth would possibly have meant Milner staying and maybe Randy foregoing the book balancing thanks to possible CL cash injections. Slipping to 6th, albeit with a very impressive 64 points haul, wasn't enough to keep hold of our better players. Milner went, Ash Young we knew wouldn't stay too much longer, and the rest is history.
I can't blame Lambert too much for the current predicament. He's fighting with 3 years of rapid decline and ever dwindling quality in the side. He's made poor decisions tactically I know, and made questionnable signings, but he's at least been brave about what he's gone about doing, and he's trying to alter years of a very predictable, one dimensional style of play.
We have been piss poor but I think he'll turn it around. Whether he can this season is another matter. Should we go down, I think he'll have started building a side capable of taking us back up and being better for it, and a side that largely, won't jump ship.
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Just read over the last page whilst grinding my teeth really hard.
Those 4 days around Moscow and Stoke are still hard to take. I think we all still have the scars.
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Just read over the last page whilst grinding my teeth really hard.
Those 4 days around Moscow and Stoke are still hard to take. I think we all still have the scars.
Correct.
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Just read over the last page whilst grinding my teeth really hard.
Those 4 days around Moscow and Stoke are still hard to take. I think we all still have the scars.
I hope MON does too.
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The difference too was that Arsenal had a bigger, better, fitter squad. We were dead on our feet for much of the last few months because O Neill rarely rotated, except in Europe of course. But most definitely, we haven't been the same since. You could feel the team falling apart somewhat. Finishing fourth would possibly have meant Milner staying and maybe Randy foregoing the book balancing thanks to possible CL cash injections. Slipping to 6th, albeit with a very impressive 64 points haul, wasn't enough to keep hold of our better players. Milner went, Ash Young we knew wouldn't stay too much longer, and the rest is history.
I can't blame Lambert too much for the current predicament. He's fighting with 3 years of rapid decline and ever dwindling quality in the side. He's made poor decisions tactically I know, and made questionnable signings, but he's at least been brave about what he's gone about doing, and he's trying to alter years of a very predictable, one dimensional style of play.
We have been piss poor but I think he'll turn it around. Whether he can this season is another matter. Should we go down, I think he'll have started building a side capable of taking us back up and being better for it, and a side that largely, won't jump ship.
We kept them both for another season. It was Barry we lost that pivotal, pivotal summer. It would nearly make you cry.
We went from potential title challengers in January 2009 to sixth with a stronger challenge from Man City and Spurs sure to follow.
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The difference too was that Arsenal had a bigger, better, fitter squad. We were dead on our feet for much of the last few months because O Neill rarely rotated, except in Europe of course. But most definitely, we haven't been the same since. You could feel the team falling apart somewhat. Finishing fourth would possibly have meant Milner staying and maybe Randy foregoing the book balancing thanks to possible CL cash injections. Slipping to 6th, albeit with a very impressive 64 points haul, wasn't enough to keep hold of our better players. Milner went, Ash Young we knew wouldn't stay too much longer, and the rest is history.
I can't blame Lambert too much for the current predicament. He's fighting with 3 years of rapid decline and ever dwindling quality in the side. He's made poor decisions tactically I know, and made questionnable signings, but he's at least been brave about what he's gone about doing, and he's trying to alter years of a very predictable, one dimensional style of play.
We have been piss poor but I think he'll turn it around. Whether he can this season is another matter. Should we go down, I think he'll have started building a side capable of taking us back up and being better for it, and a side that largely, won't jump ship.
We kept them both for another season. It was Barry we lost that pivotal, pivotal summer. It would nearly make you cry.
We went from potential title challengers in January 2009 to sixth with a stronger challenge from Man City and Spurs sure to follow.
Yet we still finished that following year with more points and a closer gap to 4th.
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The difference too was that Arsenal had a bigger, better, fitter squad. We were dead on our feet for much of the last few months because O Neill rarely rotated, except in Europe of course. But most definitely, we haven't been the same since. You could feel the team falling apart somewhat. Finishing fourth would possibly have meant Milner staying and maybe Randy foregoing the book balancing thanks to possible CL cash injections. Slipping to 6th, albeit with a very impressive 64 points haul, wasn't enough to keep hold of our better players. Milner went, Ash Young we knew wouldn't stay too much longer, and the rest is history.
I can't blame Lambert too much for the current predicament. He's fighting with 3 years of rapid decline and ever dwindling quality in the side. He's made poor decisions tactically I know, and made questionnable signings, but he's at least been brave about what he's gone about doing, and he's trying to alter years of a very predictable, one dimensional style of play.
We have been piss poor but I think he'll turn it around. Whether he can this season is another matter. Should we go down, I think he'll have started building a side capable of taking us back up and being better for it, and a side that largely, won't jump ship.
We kept them both for another season. It was Barry we lost that pivotal, pivotal summer. It would nearly make you cry.
We went from potential title challengers in January 2009 to sixth with a stronger challenge from Man City and Spurs sure to follow.
Yet we still finished that following year with more points and a closer gap to 4th.
My point being that the increased prize-money/revenue of a higher finish could have ensured we kept Barry, strengthened again (on a more stable financial stream going forward) and could have established ourselves as a top five club. As it unfolded we missed out, reached a celing and gradually lost our best players to competitors.
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My point being that the increased prize-money/revenue of a higher finish could have ensured we kept Barry, strengthened again (on a more stable financial stream going forward) and could have established ourselves as a top five club. As it unfolded we missed out, reached a celing and gradually lost our best players to competitors.
We'd never have established ourselves as a top 5 club with MON in charge. He was tactically one dimensional and even with all the money in the world, he'd still have us playing Plan A. Whilst we got top six finishes, we played like a bottom 6 side. There was no real development unlike Spurs, even Everton, despite all the investment.
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My point being that the increased prize-money/revenue of a higher finish could have ensured we kept Barry, strengthened again (on a more stable financial stream going forward) and could have established ourselves as a top five club. As it unfolded we missed out, reached a celing and gradually lost our best players to competitors.
We'd never have established ourselves as a top 5 club with MON in charge. He was tactically one dimensional and even with all the money in the world, he'd still have us playing Plan A. Whilst we got top six finishes, we played like a bottom 6 side. There was no real development unlike Spurs, even Everton, despite all the investment.
We'd have got knocked out in the first round if we'd reached the CL with him, such was the archaic stuff we played.
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Considering how we struggled with Rapid I dread to think what a decent European side what have done to us.
And I still think that Wigan was the start of the wheels coming off. Not beating such an average side at home must have given Arsenal a boost. And although we could have won that game by a hatful by the time we played Stoke we'd taken 4 points out of 9 and gone out of 2 cups. All momentum gone for good.
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My point being that the increased prize-money/revenue of a higher finish could have ensured we kept Barry, strengthened again (on a more stable financial stream going forward) and could have established ourselves as a top five club. As it unfolded we missed out, reached a celing and gradually lost our best players to competitors.
We'd never have established ourselves as a top 5 club with MON in charge. He was tactically one dimensional and even with all the money in the world, he'd still have us playing Plan A. Whilst we got top six finishes, we played like a bottom 6 side. There was no real development unlike Spurs, even Everton, despite all the investment.
We'd have got knocked out in the first round if we'd reached the CL with him, such was the archaic stuff we played.
Like his protege Neil Lennon, whereas the visionary genius Mancini has taken the competition by storm. ;¬)
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Mancini is a poor manager IMO
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I will briefly respond to those comments in one quick post (I'm still at work!)
I agree MOn had a ceiling but if we had made it then we could have ended up on a more secure financial footing. We were spending Champions League wages without ever reaching it. At least if we had made it (even if we performed badly) we might have had a softer landing than the crash that eventually followed and we might have attracted a better replacement for MOn when he eventually went. A club that had made teh Champions League in recent memory would be a better draw
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Mancini is a poor manager IMO
Not qualifyng them for the next stage of the Champions League after the money he's spent is piss poor to be honest. If he dose'nt win anything this season, i reckon they'll make a change in the summer
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Mancini is a poor manager IMO
Not qualifyng them for the next stage of the Champions League after the money he's spent is piss poor to be honest. If he dose'nt win anything this season, i reckon they'll make a change in the summer
Agreed.
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Mancini is a poor manager IMO
Not qualifyng them for the next stage of the Champions League after the money he's spent is piss poor to be honest. If he dose'nt win anything this season, i reckon they'll make a change in the summer
Agreed.
I can see him going before the end of the season, especially if they fall behind in the title race.
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Mancini is a poor manager IMO
Not qualifyng them for the next stage of the Champions League after the money he's spent is piss poor to be honest. If he dose'nt win anything this season, i reckon they'll make a change in the summer
Has to be Pep.
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Mancini is a poor manager IMO
Not qualifyng them for the next stage of the Champions League after the money he's spent is piss poor to be honest. If he dose'nt win anything this season, i reckon they'll make a change in the summer
Has to be Pep.
I think pep will end up at chelski and mourinho at man city sometime in the summer.
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I think this is Barrys last year at city, i wonder whether while sitting on the bench this week Barry and Milner looked at each other wishing they could come home.
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I think this is Barrys last year at city, i wonder whether while sitting on the bench this week Barry and Milner looked at each other wishing they could come home.
Wouldn't be good for their bank accounts.
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I think this is Barrys last year at city, i wonder whether while sitting on the bench this week Barry and Milner looked at each other wishing they could come home.
I doubt they did.
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Mancini is a poor manager IMO
Not qualifyng them for the next stage of the Champions League after the money he's spent is piss poor to be honest. If he dose'nt win anything this season, i reckon they'll make a change in the summer
Has to be Pep.
I think pep will end up at chelski and mourinho at man city sometime in the summer.
Mourinho is waiting for Fergie to hang up his nose. Guardiola is more likely to go to Man City than Chelsea.
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I think this is Barrys last year at city, i wonder whether while sitting on the bench this week Barry and Milner looked at each other wishing they could come home.
I very much doubt either would be up for a 75% pay cut to be honest
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I think this is Barrys last year at city, i wonder whether while sitting on the bench this week Barry and Milner looked at each other wishing they could come home.
I very much doubt either would be up for a 75% pay cut to be honest
A loan deal would be nice though. Milner would be welcomed with open arms, not so sure about Barry though.
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I think this is Barrys last year at city, i wonder whether while sitting on the bench this week Barry and Milner looked at each other wishing they could come home.
I very much doubt either would be up for a 75% pay cut to be honest
Loan to us maybe for the rest of the season?
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I very much doubt they'd have to take a 75% pay cut.
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Isn't Barry on £120k a week
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He may well be, but that doesn't mean we'd offer him £30k a week.
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I think this is Barrys last year at city, i wonder whether while sitting on the bench this week Barry and Milner looked at each other wishing they could come home.
Didn't he sign a 5 year contract when he went there?
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He may well be, but that doesn't mean we'd offer him £30k a week.
Not sure our new wage structure goes much above 30k a week
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He may well be, but that doesn't mean we'd offer him £30k a week.
Not sure our new wage structure goes much above 30k a week
I am not sure there is a stucture as such
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Yes, Lambert out, it is his reason we have been so shite
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Lambert is welcome to stay for many years. The football is good and progressive, the team is committed. And the players shining are his signings - or players like Bannan who have come on leaps and bounds thanks to the methods and style of our new manager. Willing to give Lambert time, if we don't another club our level will and they'll reap the rewards of having such a talented forward-thinking manager.
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Lambert is welcome to stay for many years. The football is good and progressive, the team is committed. And the players shining are his signings - or players like Bannan who have come on leaps and bounds thanks to the methods and style of our new manager. Willing to give Lambert time, if we don't another club our level will and they'll reap the rewards of having such a talented forward-thinking manager.
Absolutely.
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Paul Lambert is the manager Chelsea should have got.
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Given the point we'd reached at the end of last season, we could not have made a better appoinment than Paul Lambert.
He's not fucking about, he's a proper manager who knows exactly what he's doing, and I don't think I've felt as much optimism about the way the club is heading since Sir Brian was in charge.
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Lambert is welcome to stay for many years. The football is good and progressive, the team is committed. And the players shining are his signings - or players like Bannan who have come on leaps and bounds thanks to the methods and style of our new manager. Willing to give Lambert time, if we don't another club our level will and they'll reap the rewards of having such a talented forward-thinking manager.
Agreed. Not been a big fan of Bannan but the lad is starting to deliver on the promise. Lambert is turning our boys into men and yesterday I thought Bannan played with great maturity, he still tried one or two stupid balls but overall it was a great improvement. Long may it continue.
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He's the view from the gRauniad (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/nov/26/aston-villa-paul-lambert-darren-bent), as at today.
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He's the view from the gRauniad (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/nov/26/aston-villa-paul-lambert-darren-bent), as at today.
That article is pretty much how I feel about the Bent situation,it's a real head scratcher. It's ok talking about youth and promise but we desperately need goals. Should we not win tonight and Bent is omitted from the squad,surely PL would be under pressure to justify his reasons for doing so
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He's the view from the gRauniad (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/nov/26/aston-villa-paul-lambert-darren-bent), as at today.
Does one more appearance from Bent trigger a big payment to Sunderland?
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He's the view from the gRauniad (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/nov/26/aston-villa-paul-lambert-darren-bent), as at today.
Does one more appearance from Bent trigger a big payment to Sunderland?
Kendrick has tweeted that rumours of extra payments to Sunderland are well off the mark- total rubbish.
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He's the view from the gRauniad (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/nov/26/aston-villa-paul-lambert-darren-bent), as at today.
That article is pretty much how I feel about the Bent situation,it's a real head scratcher. It's ok talking about youth and promise but we desperately need goals. Should we not win tonight and Bent is omitted from the squad,surely PL would be under pressure to justify his reasons for doing so
Very much in agreement with this (and the article) as well.
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He's the view from the gRauniad (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/nov/26/aston-villa-paul-lambert-darren-bent), as at today.
That article is pretty much how I feel about the Bent situation,it's a real head scratcher. It's ok talking about youth and promise but we desperately need goals. Should we not win tonight and Bent is omitted from the squad,surely PL would be under pressure to justify his reasons for doing so
Very much in agreement with this (and the article) as well.
Yes a good article, there must be more to this than meets the eye, I can just about understand why bent wouldn't be in the starting 11 , I find him not being on the bench either quite strange.
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Yeah,its a real odd one. Even if PLs looking to sell him,he should be involved more. And if its a no show tonight,and a poor result,the pressure will begin.
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Completely agree. It's 10 goals in 13 league games now, we're in the bottom three and the bloke we bought to get us out of a similar situation 2 years ago can't get a look in.
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That article does indeed hit all of the nails on their heads. Somebody should quote this to Lambo after each point is dropped and he gives his usual post-match comment: "Forget all the talk of long-term projects, promising youngsters and spirited performances in defeat, Villa badly need some points."
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Houlier bought Darren Bent post austerity cuts. At the SCG Faulkner said that one of the reasons for signing him was that they were excited to learn that a striker of this quality fitted within the wage structure they were implementing. Villa can afford Darren Bent - that's why they bought him when they did. I would imagine the extra payments to take his fee from 18-24million are triggered by more exciting things than simply making 50 appearances (I think we are in that ball park of outings).
Darren Bent isn't in the side because his style of play doesn't fit within the best set up for Villa at the moment. It is a shame for him and us that he came here to link with Young & Downing & everything has changed since then. I am happy enough with what we are trying to do, and having wanted a 20 goal a season striker like him for so long, I am sad it isn't working, but think we can make better use of the money than him at the moment.
He kept us up when he arrived. I wish him well, but I don't see his future here now.
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One of the reasons for the positivity even in our predicament is that we can see what Lambert is trying to do. Every player is showing a high work rate in every position. Bent too in his first few games started to show an improved work rate as well compared to what we seen under TSM. Then there were the injuries. I can only assume that now fit he's not putting in sufficient effort in training.
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That article sums up my feelings as well. I'm happy with a lot of Lambert's work, but the fact remains we're in the bottom three and a proven Premier League goal scorer is a huge asset that should be used.
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I Can't be arsed to read it all but I find the exclusion of Bent baffling, not even a place on the bench? and he's got the rookie on there Bowery, this will not add any value to Bent if he does intend to sell him.
All I can think of is that he doesn't see him as a team player but he's definately a goal scorer
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Darren Bent isn't in the side because his style of play doesn't fit within the best set up for Villa at the moment.
But it's a setup that means we never score goals. So if the current setup means we don't score, you change it so that we do. If the Benteke/Weimann/Agbonlahor trio were scoring then I'd have no issue whatsoever.
Do you feel that having Jordan Bowery on the bench over Bent is part of the best setup for Villa at the moment? That it might not even be worth having him as an option?
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Mat Kendrick last night tweeted that there's no truth in Bent not being played because he's near a number of appearances that triggers another hefty payment to Sunderland.
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Trouble with Bent is he's a Tory in a team of socialists.
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Mat Kendrick last night tweeted that there's no truth in Bent not being played because he's near a number of appearances that triggers another hefty payment to Sunderland.
Thats fair enough - I would not be at all happy if the managers selection was being influenced by such matters.
But I have no problem with Lambert leaving Bent out otherwise. I do not think it is down to arguments or a personality clash between manager and player. I just think he is thoroughly unsuited to our team, which is unforunate for him and us.
It's all very well saying he is a proven goalscorer but if his inclusion leads to a significant reduction in chances created to try and score in the first place then what's the point?
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Trouble with Bent is he's a Tory in a team of socialists.
We will be signing some Lib Dems in the window to build a coalition, sorry squad.
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Darren Bent isn't in the side because his style of play doesn't fit within the best set up for Villa at the moment.
But it's a setup that means we never score goals. So if the current setup means we don't score, you change it so that we do. If the Benteke/Weimann/Agbonlahor trio were scoring then I'd have no issue whatsoever.
Do you feel that having Jordan Bowery on the bench over Bent is part of the best setup for Villa at the moment? That it might not even be worth having him as an option?
Simply not true. We didn't score against Man City or Arsenal, but we got 2 against Man U, 3 against Swindon, 1 against Sunderland, and we've also failed to score in some of the games he played in. I think the overall style of play looks more likely to produce goals since he's been out of the side, we've created more chances without him, and I think we have other players who will put some of them away, quite possibly with increasing regularity.
I do think he should be on the bench though, as he is one of our best options for changing things around when things aren't working.
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I can understand Lambert not picking him.
I can't understand how he's not even getting on the bench, when a kid we signed from Chesterfield is.
I am totally behind Lambert on the footballing reasons thing, but him not even being on the bench makes me suspcious more has gone on than we know about.
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I saw Kendrick's tweet about Bent.
Can anyone tell me what the actual clause in the transfer was that could potentially push the price up from the initial £18m?
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Mat Kendrick last night tweeted that there's no truth in Bent not being played because he's near a number of appearances that triggers another hefty payment to Sunderland.
If Lambert has decided to sell him in the window / Bent has asked to leave then not playing him now to avoid a hefty payment to Sunderland would make financial sense.
I suppose if he plays more games up to the window then I guess we will know the answer
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Seems strange we cant score , yet he wont play the most lethal english goal scorer in the Prem.
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Bent and Benteke could be awesome
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It's pretty obvious the reason Bent isn't being picked and that's because he's on his way out the door. We're crying out for goals yet we keep one of the league's best goalscorers out of the team. It's madness. 10 goals in 13 games and still Darren Bent can't get a look in.
Randy wants him out because of his big wages. Meanwhile we fire blanks in front of goal week after week.
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Baggies have more points this season then we have had all year . Thats depressing.
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Houlier bought Darren Bent post austerity cuts. At the SCG Faulkner said that one of the reasons for signing him was that they were excited to learn that a striker of this quality fitted within the wage structure they were implementing. Villa can afford Darren Bent - that's why they bought him when they did. I would imagine the extra payments to take his fee from 18-24million are triggered by more exciting things than simply making 50 appearances (I think we are in that ball park of outings).
Darren Bent isn't in the side because his style of play doesn't fit within the best set up for Villa at the moment. It is a shame for him and us that he came here to link with Young & Downing & everything has changed since then. I am happy enough with what we are trying to do, and having wanted a 20 goal a season striker like him for so long, I am sad it isn't working, but think we can make better use of the money than him at the moment.
He kept us up when he arrived. I wish him well, but I don't see his future here now.
Well, the "best Villa set up" has delivered an absolutely abysmal start, hardly any goals and a bottom three presence, so it clearly isn't working. Bent and Benteke have only played a few minutes together, so it's hard to argue that it's been given time to work in any case.
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Mat Kendrick last night tweeted that there's no truth in Bent not being played because he's near a number of appearances that triggers another hefty payment to Sunderland.
And General Krulak said the same thing about Curtis Davies, even when it was crystal clear what the game in town was.
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Mat Kendrick last night tweeted that there's no truth in Bent not being played because he's near a number of appearances that triggers another hefty payment to Sunderland.
And General Krulak said the same thing about Curtis Davies, even when it was crystal clear what the game in town was.
If an answer doesn't fit your theory then it has to be a lie?
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Mat Kendrick last night tweeted that there's no truth in Bent not being played because he's near a number of appearances that triggers another hefty payment to Sunderland.
And General Krulak said the same thing about Curtis Davies, even when it was crystal clear what the game in town was.
If an answer doesn't fit your theory then it has to be a lie?
Oh do go away.
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Mat Kendrick last night tweeted that there's no truth in Bent not being played because he's near a number of appearances that triggers another hefty payment to Sunderland.
And General Krulak said the same thing about Curtis Davies, even when it was crystal clear what the game in town was.
If an answer doesn't fit your theory then it has to be a lie?
Oh do go away.
Another reasoned response, I see.
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Every time anybody remotely questions the club, you're in there like their little appointed watchdog, trying to stamp out any dissent. Why is that?
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Every time anybody remotely questions the club, you're in there like their little appointed watchdog, trying to stamp out any dissent. Why is that?
Sometimes, when something I might disagree with is said, I like to state my opinion. Most of the time I don't bother. In this case two seperate people on two seperate occasions have said that claims are false. Without any evidence whatsoever your immediate default position is to imply they're not telling the truth and as ever to insult anyone who doesn't agree with you.
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Well, the "best Villa set up" has delivered an absolutely abysmal start, hardly any goals and a bottom three presence, so it clearly isn't working. Bent and Benteke have only played a few minutes together, so it's hard to argue that it's been given time to work in any case.
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That start includes time when he was playing. When he was playing this message board was full of how he was a disinterested luxury (not saying this was your opinion - I am not one for stalking posters for their posting history on subjects) but now he's not playing everyone seems to think he would be our saviour. In my opinion performances have been better in the last few weeks, but we have come up against better teams in this latest spell. We have still scored goals against one of them, and it is simply untrue to say we're not scoring with Darren Bent out of the side - I think we have scored at a similar level all season, but created more chances and had a better shape recently.
I would have no objections to him being given another chance, and seeing how a partnership with Benteke may work, but I think there is a problem with that set up in the supply line because our midfield need strengthening. I think Gabs & Weimman bring the ball through better.
I certainly think he should be on at least the bench if fit beause he clearly provides a useful option, but I'm not of the opinion that the goals would start flying in if we started with him, and have no problem with Lambert deciding not to start him.
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There's a bit more evidence of the Davies clause, in that his agent (rather stupidly IMO) revealed it to the press.
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People say we want bent off the wage bill but while he is here is is still being paid so lets make use of him or at least have that option on the bench - we need goals !
Not using him is hardly going to help us sell him if that's what lambert wants to do- his valuation will plummet while he sits in the stands.
Sadly though I feel lambert has probably already made his mind up on bent in the same way he has with warnock and Hutton and I fear bent will be gone in January for a lot less than we paid for him.
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People say we want bent off the wage bill but while he is here is is still being paid so lets make use of him or at least have that option on the bench - we need goals !
Not using him is hardly going to help us sell him if that's what lambert wants to do- his valuation will plummet while he sits in the stands.
I would guess that not playing him would see his value drop by a lot more than any clause in his contract might cost us.
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Bent is off, it's pretty clear. Also, isn't he one of our big earners? therefore, doesn't that comply with our goal of lowering the wagebill? There's no point keeping a player on £60,000+ a week around if he's not going to be played.
Personally, I believe that Darren should play, along side Benteke. Bent is a much greater goal threat than Agbonlahor, who goes for games without looking like scoring.
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People say we want bent off the wage bill but while he is here is is still being paid so lets make use of him or at least have that option on the bench - we need goals !
Not using him is hardly going to help us sell him if that's what lambert wants to do- his valuation will plummet while he sits in the stands.
I would guess that not playing him would see his value drop by a lot more than any clause in his contract might cost us.
Very true. We're never going to make a profit on him.
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People say we want bent off the wage bill but while he is here is is still being paid so lets make use of him or at least have that option on the bench - we need goals !
Not using him is hardly going to help us sell him if that's what lambert wants to do- his valuation will plummet while he sits in the stands.
I would guess that not playing him would see his value drop by a lot more than any clause in his contract might cost us.
Very true. We're never going to make a profit on him.
But we might, if he was playing and scoring goals.
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People say we want bent off the wage bill but while he is here is is still being paid so lets make use of him or at least have that option on the bench - we need goals !
Not using him is hardly going to help us sell him if that's what lambert wants to do- his valuation will plummet while he sits in the stands.
I would guess that not playing him would see his value drop by a lot more than any clause in his contract might cost us.
Exactly, the talk of a contract clause has been rubbished , that is not the reason bent is not playing - but clearly lambert doesnt fancy him for whatever reason.
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Paul Lambert was my first choice as manager before McLeish. That said I can't see how we are benefitting from having Bent sitting in the stands. Without checking i'd say he's got to have one of the best goals to games ratios of any Villa striker in the last 20 years. For a side languishing 18th in the division I think he should be out on the pitch whenever possible.
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People say we want bent off the wage bill but while he is here is is still being paid so lets make use of him or at least have that option on the bench - we need goals !
Not using him is hardly going to help us sell him if that's what lambert wants to do- his valuation will plummet while he sits in the stands.
I would guess that not playing him would see his value drop by a lot more than any clause in his contract might cost us.
Very true. We're never going to make a profit on him.
But we might, if he was playing and scoring goals.
If he was playing and scoring goals I would hope there would be no reason to sell him.
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And therein lies the rub, as I believe Shakespeare said.
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I don't think we should assume that Bent's time is up. He did'nt freeze him out straight away like he did with other players.
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Bents injury record is pretty mixed since he's been at villa. Maybe they're worried a move won't happen as a result of him getting injured again hence him not playing. Seems pretty clear to me that he is our only saleable asset that would drum up the required funds to add some proven quality to the areas of our game that are most required (midfield in my opinion). If risking him if they see an injury around the corner meant we risked not being able to rebuild its understandable that he isn't playing. Bent, 29 soon, might agree too, we don't know.
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He's on 47 games for us at the moment.
Do we have to pay Sunderland if he reaches 50 or something?
Does anybody know what the clause is?
Was it ever made public?
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He's on 47 games for us at the moment.
Do we have to pay Sunderland if he reaches 50 or something?
Does anybody know what the clause is?
Was it ever made public?
Kendrick has tweeted that villa have said such claims are total rubbish and no such clause exists.
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Bent has never seemed part of the furniture at Villa has he?
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Kendrick has tweeted that villa have said such claims are total rubbish and no such clause exists.
I know, I've seen the tweet.
So what is the trigger that means Bent's fee goes up from the £18m(?) to the £24m(?) which was reported when we signed him.
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FWIW, I think Bent will leave on loan somewhere in January, with an option to buy. I would guess that a deal has been done and he is quite happy to sit and wait until that time. There may be a clause, (there were probably a fair few) which he is close to triggering, nobody knows for certain that there isn't. As was pointed out we were told Davies hadn't got a similar clause, but as Percy says, his agent told the press that there was. In both cases, when you can't think of a reason, or it seems very strange that a fit senior player isn't even on the bench and there are gaping holes in the team, it's natural to wonder what's going on.
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He may have deemed Bent not fit enough on saturday. He's only just back from an injury. That said, Bents demeanour all season hasn't been great and his form has been very poor too so that also may be a reason. Maybe the striker who cost us 500k-1mill has shown more desire in training than our record buy.
But conspiracy theories are ridiculous. Lambert is the boss and will not, thank god, ever play favourites. Too many of our previous managers have, to the detriment of the team often. I would agree though, that Bent needs to be on the bench. He might not like it but his game really suits a super sub role.
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Bent has never seemed part of the furniture at Villa has he?
That's a phrase which sums him up. I've said all along that he's never been the big hero he should have been, for whatever reason. Older readers might recall Tony Hateley was the same.
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Bent has never seemed part of the furniture at Villa has he?
I have to agree. I fully expect him to go in the not too distant future and that I won't be surprised or disappointed at his departure.
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Bent has never seemed part of the furniture at Villa has he?
I have to agree. I fully expect him to go in the not too distant future and that I won't be surprised or disappointed at his departure.
That's the key for me. I can't knock what he brings to the team, and he arguably saved us from relegation, but I won't be as gutted when he leaves like I was with Milner, Barry or Young
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After keeping us up with his goals, you would think he would be though.
Re the fee, I reckon 2m will have been paid the day we were mathematically safe, and then a proportion will have been on European qualification and goals scored I would imagine.
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Kendrick has tweeted that villa have said such claims are total rubbish and no such clause exists.
I know, I've seen the tweet.
So what is the trigger that means Bent's fee goes up from the £18m(?) to the £24m(?) which was reported when we signed him.
There wouldn't be one clause but several, each costing us a bit extra. Staying up that first season would certainly have been one and I would guess things like caps and a certain number of goals would also be included, plus maybe trophies (!) and playing in international tournaments. Appearances would probably be in there as well, although how many and how much is open to debate.
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Bent has never seemed part of the furniture at Villa has he?
That's a phrase which sums him up. I've said all along that he's never been the big hero he should have been, for whatever reason. Older readers might recall Tony Hateley was the same.
That really sums up his career, especially at Spurs, Mackems, us and England. Great scoring record over his whole career but lots of doubters regardless.
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Kendrick has tweeted that villa have said such claims are total rubbish and no such clause exists.
I know, I've seen the tweet.
So what is the trigger that means Bent's fee goes up from the £18m(?) to the £24m(?) which was reported when we signed him.
There wouldn't be one clause but several, each costing us a bit extra. Staying up that first season would certainly have been one and I would guess things like caps and a certain number of goals would also be included, plus maybe trophies (!) and playing in international tournaments. Appearances would probably be in there as well, although how many and how much is open to debate.
I think having paid that much for him we would have expected him to play a lot more than 50 games before any appearance add on fee.
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Bent has never seemed part of the furniture at Villa has he?
That's a phrase which sums him up. I've said all along that he's never been the big hero he should have been, for whatever reason. Older readers might recall Tony Hateley was the same.
That really sums up his career, especially at Spurs, Mackems, us and England. Great scoring record over his whole career but lots of doubters regardless.
It goes beyond that. You can have outsiders looking at your record and thinking "Yes, but he couldn't do it at a big club/higher level." When it's your own supporters and their club is all they care about, it's something strange.
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He's been unfortunate due to changes in what's popular,hardly anyone plays with two up top at the minute,and the one who is has to run his nuts off.
It's a real head scratcher,as the two games I've been to when he featured(Swansea,West Brom)he's done pretty well,and more importantly,the team played well.
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Kendrick has tweeted that villa have said such claims are total rubbish and no such clause exists.
I know, I've seen the tweet.
So what is the trigger that means Bent's fee goes up from the £18m(?) to the £24m(?) which was reported when we signed him.
There wouldn't be one clause but several, each costing us a bit extra. Staying up that first season would certainly have been one and I would guess things like caps and a certain number of goals would also be included, plus maybe trophies (!) and playing in international tournaments. Appearances would probably be in there as well, although how many and how much is open to debate.
I think having paid that much for him we would have expected him to play a lot more than 50 games before any appearance add on fee.
Expected to play more than 50 games, yes, totally. But having the clause gives you the option of paying the extra, say if he turned out to be pants (which he hasn't). Or at the very least delays paying that sum up-front
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Bent was a big favourite at his previous clubs. At Spurs he was up against it with Berbatov,Defoe and Keane in the same squad, but even so his record still stands up. At Villa his goals pretty much kept us up. Was it something like 9 in 15? Anyway last season he was doing well in a poor side and once we lost him to injury our form plummeted. I honestly believe that had he not sustained that injury we would have finished up in mid table. This however could well have seen McLeish still in charge this season.
As for the clauses, i'm hoping that £6m difference was purely based on CL qualification ;)
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Bent has never seemed part of the furniture at Villa has he?
That's a phrase which sums him up. I've said all along that he's never been the big hero he should have been, for whatever reason. Older readers might recall Tony Hateley was the same.
I have always wanted to take to him but haven't. I was so excited the day he signed but just never saw him as a 'villan', as much as I have wanted to. Interesting too that he hasn't many votes on the favourite player thread. Funny, even if it was this time last year I don't think he'd have been out in front in any similar poll.
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Bent has never seemed part of the furniture at Villa has he?
That's a phrase which sums him up. I've said all along that he's never been the big hero he should have been, for whatever reason. Older readers might recall Tony Hateley was the same.
Bent has never played in a decent Villa team and we've been pretty awful since he joined so it's hardly surprising he's not got the praise his goals deserve. If he had been signed in the early days of Lerner's reign I'm sure the fans would by now have hailed him as a hero.
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I obviously enjoy watching him score, but he isn't an 'exciting' player, ie he'll never score a 30 yard scorcher or dribble round three players before slotting home. But we need goals at this stage more than anything else, and we should be making sure we get the ball to him in the box.
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Surely being the only bright spark in a sea of awfulness should mean he was even more popular?
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Surely being the only bright spark in a sea of awfulness should mean he was even more popular?
Not really. I don't remember too many heroes in the team the last time we were this bad back in the mid 80s.
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Surely being the only bright spark in a sea of awfulness should mean he was even more popular?
Not really. I don't remember too many heroes in the team the last time we were this bad back in the mid 80s.
I can remember plenty in 1989, '91 & '95.
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Bent has never seemed part of the furniture at Villa has he?
That's a phrase which sums him up. I've said all along that he's never been the big hero he should have been, for whatever reason. Older readers might recall Tony Hateley was the same.
Bent has never played in a decent Villa team and we've been pretty awful since he joined so it's hardly surprising he's not got the praise his goals deserve. If he had been signed in the early days of Lerner's reign I'm sure the fans would by now have hailed him as a hero.
When he first signed we went on a really good run and our form was top 6 level until the end of the season.
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When he first signed we went on a really good run and our form was top 6 level until the end of the season
Yep, we signed him in January and he scored 9 goals in the remaining 15 games that season.
The entire team have only scored 10 goals so far in 13 games this season.
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I'll say one thing for Lambert, he's got strength of mind. If we go down and he's not picked and then sold the most prolific forward we've had in years then I don't think the history books will be kind.
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Bent has never seemed part of the furniture at Villa has he?
That's a phrase which sums him up. I've said all along that he's never been the big hero he should have been, for whatever reason. Older readers might recall Tony Hateley was the same.
Bent has never played in a decent Villa team and we've been pretty awful since he joined so it's hardly surprising he's not got the praise his goals deserve. If he had been signed in the early days of Lerner's reign I'm sure the fans would by now have hailed him as a hero.
When he first signed we went on a really good run and our form was top 6 level until the end of the season.
He was signed to keep us in the league. There's no way on earth that was a decent team.
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I like Bent, He kept us up and in my opinion he's earnt he's spurs so to speak
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Bent has never seemed part of the furniture at Villa has he?
That's a phrase which sums him up. I've said all along that he's never been the big hero he should have been, for whatever reason. Older readers might recall Tony Hateley was the same.
Bent has never played in a decent Villa team and we've been pretty awful since he joined so it's hardly surprising he's not got the praise his goals deserve. If he had been signed in the early days of Lerner's reign I'm sure the fans would by now have hailed him as a hero.
When he first signed we went on a really good run and our form was top 6 level until the end of the season.
He was signed to keep us in the league. There's no way on earth that was a decent team.
I'm not sure he was signed just to keep us up. I think we would have brought him anyway.
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The title of this thread should be changed to ''Lerner out?'' Bright future?... what a joke!!
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And it should be changed because?
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Moving this thread back to Lambert and away from Bent, Philippe Auclair and Barney Ronay on the ever-excellent Football Weekly podcast have suggested that we seem to be developing in the same way as a youthful Borussia Dortmund with a very similar playing style. And they were extremely positive about how we looking against Arsenal.
So that's nice to hear.
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I think most can see there is a direction Dave, which is nice. Just a lot of anxiety about the immediate points situation.
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i hope to see more points on the board after tonights game, and a few goals wouldn't go amiss either.
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i hope to see more points on the board after tonights game, and a few goals wouldn't go amiss either.
Done and done.
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The Guardian Football Weekly podcast from 26th is well worth a listen.
Barney Ronay and Phillipe Auclair talking about our match v Arsenal. Auclair sounds very impressed with the way Lambert sets us up tactically, and drew the comparison to the way Borussia Dortmund play.
In fact, he was quite gushing in his praise, which is nice to hear.
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I've about reached the point of thinking Lambert definitely isn't the man to take us forward. He's doing a grand job of backwards granted
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Having seen what Dortmund did to City a few weeks ago, I hope they're right and that's the direction we're headed with time.
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I've about reached the point of thinking Lambert definitely isn't the man to take us forward. He's doing a grand job of backwards granted
You've not given him long, have you?
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Can we start a thread "Lambert to remain in". I like him. I like what he is trying to do. I have enjoyed three home games in a row, which is the first time for some time. (didnt enjoy the United result, granted). His players in are pretty much our best players, i know we had a thin squad to begin with. And he seems to want to go and get results.
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I've about reached the point of thinking Lambert definitely isn't the man to take us forward. He's doing a grand job of backwards granted
You've not given him long, have you?
The thing that tickles me about it is that "about reached the point" suggests that it's a view that has been reluctantly announced after long and careful consideration.
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In my opinion, considering what he has to work with, and the money he's had to spend, We should be better off than bottom 3.
Is that harsh ?
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I think one thing that cannot be underestimated is the hangover from the second half of last season, where, in main down to McLeish entirely losing the plot (and refusing to play midfielders), we were utterly uncapable of stringing two passes together, let alone garner a victory.
The team has suffered from not having enough points on the board from the first 7 or 8 games this season which were against relatively ‘weak’ teams. We were playing ok, but were not quite managing to win games, probably due to the chronic self-doubt throughout the squad from that hangover. Winning, and losing, can become a habit (ask West Brom!). As the fixture list stiffened, points obviously remained hard to come by.
The fact we had managed 2 wins in about 8 months, but now 2 in 5 games (also taking account of who we were playing in the three games we didn't win) shows that Lambert and the team are capable of picking up enough victories to move us way from our current uncomfortable position.
I like Lambert. The calibre and sustainability of his signings, all plucked from relative obscurity, is impressive. All are technically gifted, and represent great value for money. I'm looking forward to a bright (and sustainable!) future with him at the helm.
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In my opinion, considering what he has to work with, and the money he's had to spend, We should be better off than bottom 3.
Is that harsh ?
I don't know if it's harsh, that's one we have to decide for ourselves, I guess, but I do think that he hasn't actually got a lot to work with.
Look at the squad, it's pretty clear it is one of the least impressive of the league. It's a result of a gradual whittling away of the quality over the last two or three years. We're suffering a few injuries at the moment, but last night's side was basically a bunch of 21 year olds playing together in the top flight.
It doesn't really take much injury bad luck to cause us problems with the squad depth.
What i will say is that although it is early days Lambert's additions have been largely positive and forward thinking. Benteke looks a steal, and is only 21 years old, for example.
Where this season compares favourably to last season was last time round, we had a manager who had a mindset which was determinedly negative, and beyond defending, seemed to have no idea of what to do tactically.
Lambert is getting the same poor results as he did so far, but it's not for wont of trying - he's trying to get us to play good football. In terms of points, it isn't delivering so far, but I find it hard to believe anyone would say there aren't signs of it in spells already this season. McLeish was just doing what McLeish does, and there was a distinct limit to how much that was ever going to improve.
The club needs to back Lambert in January, so he can get some experience in. We need to stick behind him and give him a chance. We all spent almost the entirety of last season and the one before saying how piss poor we were, and we were right. When you're that bad, it isn't going to get turned around overnight.
Let's give the bloke a decent chance at it.
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Let's give the bloke a decent chance at it.
That's it for me, too. If we're still bottom 4 by the end of the season, it'll be very disappointing. I don't think we will be, and am more than willing to give him the time to truly make this squad (note, not just team) his.
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The difficult thing was, despite having good money to spend this summer, we had to spread that on 9 players just to have a squad this season. As such Lambert worked miracles to get in a group of which 5 of them are arguably our best players in Guzan, Lowton, Vlaar, Westwood and Benteke. Holman is not far behind.
If KEA and Bennett adapt they could both be key too.
The joy is that we now know that he is very shrewd when buying a player, and clearly had a system in mind with his purchases. If we can get 3 experienced players from somewhere in January I think we will be fine this season, and end up winning more games at VP than we have in a long while.
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Me personally im 110% behind Lambert after 3 shit managers we need to just get behind the man
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I think we will be fine this season, and end up winning more games at VP than we have in a long while.
Wenger said in his post match conference that not many teams will come to Villa Park and win and got the piss taken out of him for it by the idiots on Talk Sport.I'm beginning to think he's right
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It's also worth remembering that yet again our injury curse has struck and have 7 players out (including Stan) which could be up to 8 depending on Stevens. 9 if you include Bent *stirs pot* When those come back the squad will obviously be a lot stronger.
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Let's give the bloke a decent chance at it.
That's it for me, too. If we're still bottom 4 by the end of the season, it'll be very disappointing. I don't think we will be, and am more than willing to give him the time to truly make this squad (note, not just team) his.
I think many fans have underestimated how bad things really were last season. A 'losing mentality' took root at Villa about last January/February and we are finally comingout of it. As I said last night, the Reading game was one we would have either lost or only got a point from circa February to May. Confidence is beginning to grow and that in itself will help our performances. We were so brittle (fans and players alike) throughout 2012 that we feared losing so much we couldn't win.
We are making progress.
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Me personally im 110% behind Lambert after 3 shit managers we need to just get behind the man
Three shit managers?
I'm far from MON's biggest fan, but I'd never describe him as shit. "A shit", yes, but "shit", no.
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Same here. I also don't think Houllier was 'shit', either.
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Let's give the bloke a decent chance at it.
That's it for me, too. If we're still bottom 4 by the end of the season, it'll be very disappointing. I don't think we will be, and am more than willing to give him the time to truly make this squad (note, not just team) his.
I think many fans have underestimated how bad things really were last season. A 'losing mentality' took root at Villa about last January/February and we are finally comingout of it. As I said last night, the Reading game was one we would have either lost or only got a point from circa February to May. Confidence is beginning to grow and that in itself will help our performances. We were so brittle (fans and players alike) throughout 2012 that we feared losing so much we couldn't win.
We are making progress.
Is that a round about way of blaming McLeish for how shit we've been this season? Oh come on!
The reason we're shite is because Lerner in his wisdom decided to sell practically all the best players and replace them with infererior ones, nothing to do with the previous manager. We're doing things on the cheap now, and having a poorer team is one of the consequences.
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Let's give the bloke a decent chance at it.
That's it for me, too. If we're still bottom 4 by the end of the season, it'll be very disappointing. I don't think we will be, and am more than willing to give him the time to truly make this squad (note, not just team) his.
I think many fans have underestimated how bad things really were last season. A 'losing mentality' took root at Villa about last January/February and we are finally comingout of it. As I said last night, the Reading game was one we would have either lost or only got a point from circa February to May. Confidence is beginning to grow and that in itself will help our performances. We were so brittle (fans and players alike) throughout 2012 that we feared losing so much we couldn't win.
We are making progress.
Is that a round about way of blaming McLeish for how shit we've been this season? Oh come on!
The reason we're shite is because Lerner in his wisdom decided to sell practically all the best players and replace them with infererior ones, nothing to do with the previous manager. We're doing things on the cheap now, and having a poorer team is one of the consequences.
No I wasn't, I blame a combination of MON, Lerner, Houllier McLeish for our overall decline position. I wouldn't pin anything on one individual with Lerner shouldering most responsibility but do think we are turning the corner.
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I must admit I have not seen a lot of our games this season after a new arrival and 3 other kids, so I have no real idea where the problems are lying so I can not comment too much. Obviously a lack of quality and depth must be partly to blame. Confidence and the belief in winning must be a problem after the last couple of seasons.
After Lambert's previous managerial jobs I'm sure he can turn it around, he has proved to be a good manager. We need to stick with it and give him the time to turn things around.
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I must admit I have not seen a lot of our games this season after a new arrival and 3 other kids, so I have no real idea where the problems are lying so I can not comment too much. Obviously a lack of quality and depth must be partly to blame. Confidence and the belief in winning must be a problem after the last couple of seasons.
After Lambert's previous managerial jobs I'm sure he can turn it around, he has proved to be a good manager. We need to stick with it and give him the time to turn things around.
Any chance that you are simply repeating what you say to your fertile but hormonal spouse?
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I am sure i saw Lambert smile ( or smirk at least) at the post match press conference last night. Nice.
I hope he is smiling after Saturdays game.
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Let's give the bloke a decent chance at it.
That's it for me, too. If we're still bottom 4 by the end of the season, it'll be very disappointing. I don't think we will be, and am more than willing to give him the time to truly make this squad (note, not just team) his.
I think many fans have underestimated how bad things really were last season. A 'losing mentality' took root at Villa about last January/February and we are finally comingout of it. As I said last night, the Reading game was one we would have either lost or only got a point from circa February to May. Confidence is beginning to grow and that in itself will help our performances. We were so brittle (fans and players alike) throughout 2012 that we feared losing so much we couldn't win.
We are making progress.
Is that a round about way of blaming McLeish for how shit we've been this season? Oh come on!
The reason we're shite is because Lerner in his wisdom decided to sell practically all the best players and replace them with infererior ones, nothing to do with the previous manager. We're doing things on the cheap now, and having a poorer team is one of the consequences.
Nail on the head!
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Let's give the bloke a decent chance at it.
That's it for me, too. If we're still bottom 4 by the end of the season, it'll be very disappointing. I don't think we will be, and am more than willing to give him the time to truly make this squad (note, not just team) his.
I think many fans have underestimated how bad things really were last season. A 'losing mentality' took root at Villa about last January/February and we are finally comingout of it. As I said last night, the Reading game was one we would have either lost or only got a point from circa February to May. Confidence is beginning to grow and that in itself will help our performances. We were so brittle (fans and players alike) throughout 2012 that we feared losing so much we couldn't win.
We are making progress.
Is that a round about way of blaming McLeish for how shit we've been this season? Oh come on!
The reason we're shite is because Lerner in his wisdom decided to sell practically all the best players and replace them with infererior ones, nothing to do with the previous manager. We're doing things on the cheap now, and having a poorer team is one of the consequences.
Nail on the head!
Boring drivel more like.
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Is that a round about way of blaming McLeish for how shit we've been this season? Oh come on!
The reason we're shite is because Lerner in his wisdom decided to sell practically all the best players and replace them with infererior ones, nothing to do with the previous manager. We're doing things on the cheap now, and having a poorer team is one of the consequences.
Oh dear.
Now you're for it!
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I also don't think Houllier was 'shit', either.
He wasn't that good.
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If we play well and lose people aren't happy (see Man U).
If we play poorly and win, people still aren't happy (see Reading).
We clearly have to get over ourselves if we think we're going to be playing great football and winning all the time.
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If we play well and lose people aren't happy (see Man U).
If we play poorly and win, people still aren't happy (see Reading).
We clearly have to get over ourselves if we think we're going to be playing great football and winning all the time.
All the time? Is more than a handful of times a year really too much to ask for? But anyway, I think you're entirely wrong. Pointing out that the performance against Reading wasn't very good doesn't mean that people weren't happy we won.
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All this talk of Bent not getting a chance overlooks one thing, he's featured 11 times this season.
Benteke has out-performed him and is in the side on merit. The system we set up with doesn't really allow the two of them to play together and Bowery is a more like for like replacement to cover for injuries etc.
We can either change the system to try to accommodate Bent or we can cash in and use the money to buy players that fit the system we play. It's harsh but that's football.
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All this talk of Bent not getting a chance overlooks one thing, he's featured 11 times this season.
Benteke has out-performed him and is in the side on merit. The system we set up with doesn't really allow the two of them to play together and Bowery is a more like for like replacement to cover for injuries etc.
We can either change the system to try to accommodate Bent or we can cash in and use the money to buy players that fit the system we play. It's harsh but that's football.
What are you basing that Bowery comment on Chris?
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I also don't think Houllier was 'shit', either.
He wasn't that good.
He was Pep Guardiola compared to what we had last year.
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All this talk of Bent not getting a chance overlooks one thing, he's featured 11 times this season.
Benteke has out-performed him and is in the side on merit. The system we set up with doesn't really allow the two of them to play together and Bowery is a more like for like replacement to cover for injuries etc.
We can either change the system to try to accommodate Bent or we can cash in and use the money to buy players that fit the system we play. It's harsh but that's football.
What are you basing that Bowery comment on Chris?
Fair comment, I should have put something about "the manager sees him as...". The main point though is that he doesn't think Bent fits with the way he wants to play and it's his job to make those decisions.
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Is that a round about way of blaming McLeish for how shit we've been this season? Oh come on!
The reason we're shite is because Lerner in his wisdom decided to sell practically all the best players and replace them with infererior ones, nothing to do with the previous manager. We're doing things on the cheap now, and having a poorer team is one of the consequences.
Oh dear.
Now you're for it!
And why might that be? Of the two final sentences, parts of the first are arguable and the second fairly self-evident. There's really no reason for anyone to be "for it."
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Is that a round about way of blaming McLeish for how shit we've been this season? Oh come on!
The reason we're shite is because Lerner in his wisdom decided to sell practically all the best players and replace them with infererior ones, nothing to do with the previous manager. We're doing things on the cheap now, and having a poorer team is one of the consequences.
Oh dear.
Now you're for it!
And why might that be? Of the two final sentences, parts of the first are arguable and the second fairly self-evident. There's really no reason for anyone to be "for it."
Didn't Ozzjim describe the comments made about Blandy (by Saunders amongst others) in the Match thread as 'scandalous' ?
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Is that a round about way of blaming McLeish for how shit we've been this season? Oh come on!
The reason we're shite is because Lerner in his wisdom decided to sell practically all the best players and replace them with infererior ones, nothing to do with the previous manager. We're doing things on the cheap now, and having a poorer team is one of the consequences.
Oh dear.
Now you're for it!
And why might that be? Of the two final sentences, parts of the first are arguable and the second fairly self-evident. There's really no reason for anyone to be "for it."
Didn't Ozzjim describe the comments made about Blandy (by Saunders amongst others) in the Match thread as 'scandalous' ?
I have no idea. Is Ozzjim not allowed to disagree with anyone?
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Is that a round about way of blaming McLeish for how shit we've been this season? Oh come on!
The reason we're shite is because Lerner in his wisdom decided to sell practically all the best players and replace them with infererior ones, nothing to do with the previous manager. We're doing things on the cheap now, and having a poorer team is one of the consequences.
Oh dear.
Now you're for it!
And why might that be? Of the two final sentences, parts of the first are arguable and the second fairly self-evident. There's really no reason for anyone to be "for it."
Didn't Ozzjim describe the comments made about Blandy (by Saunders amongst others) in the Match thread as 'scandalous' ?
I have no idea. Is Ozzjim not allowed to disagree with anyone?
By all means, but i'd hardly describe criticism of the sleeping Yank 'scandalous.'
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All this talk of Bent not getting a chance overlooks one thing, he's featured 11 times this season.
Benteke has out-performed him and is in the side on merit. The system we set up with doesn't really allow the two of them to play together and Bowery is a more like for like replacement to cover for injuries etc.
We can either change the system to try to accommodate Bent or we can cash in and use the money to buy players that fit the system we play. It's harsh but that's football.
What are you basing that Bowery comment on Chris?
Fair comment, I should have put something about "the manager sees him as...". The main point though is that he doesn't think Bent fits with the way he wants to play and it's his job to make those decisions.
I don't think the question is whether bent should be playing ahead of benteke- it's whether bent should be playing alongside benteke or at least on the bench.
Nobody I've seen has any gripe about benteke starting. I see no reason why bent and n benteke can't both start, we need goals and gabby has one league goal in 30 games .
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So how does this mean someone was "for it"?
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So how does this mean someone was "for it"?
It was suggesting that he might get some criticism for having a go at the ownership of the club.
Are we clear?
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So how does this mean someone was "for it"?
It was suggesting that he might get some criticism for having a go at the ownership of the club.
Are we clear?
If by criticism you mean disagreement, then we are.
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All this talk of Bent not getting a chance overlooks one thing, he's featured 11 times this season.
Benteke has out-performed him and is in the side on merit. The system we set up with doesn't really allow the two of them to play together and Bowery is a more like for like replacement to cover for injuries etc.
We can either change the system to try to accommodate Bent or we can cash in and use the money to buy players that fit the system we play. It's harsh but that's football.
What are you basing that Bowery comment on Chris?
Fair comment, I should have put something about "the manager sees him as...". The main point though is that he doesn't think Bent fits with the way he wants to play and it's his job to make those decisions.
I don't think the question is whether bent should be playing ahead of benteke- it's whether bent should be playing alongside benteke or at least on the bench.
Nobody I've seen has any gripe about benteke starting. I see no reason why bent and n benteke can't both start, we need goals and gabby has one league goal in 30 games .
It's clear Bent possesses a higher goal threat than Gabby and Weimann, but the thinking in the system Lambert is playing is that Weimann and Gabby will make more space for Benteke to score goals. It's a bit 'all eggs in one basket' mind
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All this talk of Bent not getting a chance overlooks one thing, he's featured 11 times this season.
Benteke has out-performed him and is in the side on merit. The system we set up with doesn't really allow the two of them to play together and Bowery is a more like for like replacement to cover for injuries etc.
We can either change the system to try to accommodate Bent or we can cash in and use the money to buy players that fit the system we play. It's harsh but that's football.
What are you basing that Bowery comment on Chris?
Fair comment, I should have put something about "the manager sees him as...". The main point though is that he doesn't think Bent fits with the way he wants to play and it's his job to make those decisions.
I don't think the question is whether bent should be playing ahead of benteke- it's whether bent should be playing alongside benteke or at least on the bench.
Nobody I've seen has any gripe about benteke starting. I see no reason why bent and n benteke can't both start, we need goals and gabby has one league goal in 30 games .
It's clear Bent possesses a higher goal threat than Gabby and Weimann, but the thinking in the system Lambert is playing is that Weimann and Gabby will make more space for Benteke to score goals. It's a bit 'all eggs in one basket' mind
True glasses, but results and our goal tally suggest its not working.
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Was just browsing his Wikipedia page and noticed he has win percentage of 35.29% with us so far. Not bad at all.
For reference, McLeish had 21.43%, and O'Neill had 42.11%.
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Was just browsing his Wikipedia page and noticed he has win percentage of 35.29% with us so far. Not bad at all.
For reference, McLeish had 21.43%, and O'Neill had 42.11%.
Not in league games he hasn't. That must be including games against lowly tranmere and Swindon.
His win percentage in league games is about 22.5%.
Would be interested in their various league win percentages .
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Was just browsing his Wikipedia page and noticed he has win percentage of 35.29% with us so far. Not bad at all.
For reference, McLeish had 21.43%, and O'Neill had 42.11%.
Not in league games he hasn't. That must be including games against lowly tranmere and Swindon.
Oh in that case, Lambert out!
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Was just browsing his Wikipedia page and noticed he has win percentage of 35.29% with us so far. Not bad at all.
For reference, McLeish had 21.43%, and O'Neill had 42.11%.
Not in league games he hasn't. That must be including games against lowly tranmere and Swindon.
His win percentage in league games is about 22.5%.
Would be interested in their various league win percentages .
It also includes the win away at Man City, or are they too lowly? A win is a win.
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Was just browsing his Wikipedia page and noticed he has win percentage of 35.29% with us so far. Not bad at all.
For reference, McLeish had 21.43%, and O'Neill had 42.11%.
Not in league games he hasn't. That must be including games against lowly tranmere and Swindon.
His win percentage in league games is about 22.5%.
Would be interested in their various league win percentages .
It also includes the win away at Man City, or are they too lowly? A win is a win.
Martin O Neill won a lot more games than he lost. I'd also guess he drew more games than he won or lost here. Doesn't Gregory have the highest win % from the 90's onwards? Stats like that can be a tad misleading though as Gregory never achieved the points hauls O Neill managed. He managed 60, 63 and then 64 points if I recall. As for little his win % wasn't helped by his first half season or last half season here but you'd have to say he achieved a lot of success with us.
There's very little point bringing that stat in just yet though. We'll see again in 2-3 years, if Lambert is still in charge that is.
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Was just browsing his Wikipedia page and noticed he has win percentage of 35.29% with us so far. Not bad at all.
For reference, McLeish had 21.43%, and O'Neill had 42.11%.
Not in league games he hasn't. That must be including games against lowly tranmere and Swindon.
His win percentage in league games is about 22.5%.
Would be interested in their various league win percentages .
It also includes the win away at Man City, or are they too lowly? A win is a win.
Martin O Neill won a lot more games than he lost. I'd also guess he drew more games than he won or lost here. Doesn't Gregory have the highest win % from the 90's onwards? Stats like that can be a tad misleading though as Gregory never achieved the points hauls O Neill managed. He managed 60, 63 and then 64 points if I recall. As for little his win % wasn't helped by his first half season or last half season here but you'd have to say he achieved a lot of success with us.
There's very little point bringing that stat in just yet though. We'll see again in 2-3 years, if Lambert is still in charge that is.
Yeah, I know it's a tad early I just thought it was interesting, if not surprising.
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I almost forget sometimes we're in the LC still. Largely because we tend to be out at this point, especially in seasons we're struggling in the league. Hopefully that'll provide a bit of joy. It's not unwinnable given who's left.
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Is that a round about way of blaming McLeish for how shit we've been this season? Oh come on!
The reason we're shite is because Lerner in his wisdom decided to sell practically all the best players and replace them with infererior ones, nothing to do with the previous manager. We're doing things on the cheap now, and having a poorer team is one of the consequences.
Oh dear.
Now you're for it!
And why might that be? Of the two final sentences, parts of the first are arguable and the second fairly self-evident. There's really no reason for anyone to be "for it."
Didn't Ozzjim describe the comments made about Blandy (by Saunders amongst others) in the Match thread as 'scandalous' ?
I have no idea. Is Ozzjim not allowed to disagree with anyone?
By all means, but i'd hardly describe criticism of the sleeping Yank 'scandalous.'
I would like to interject here. I never typed scandalous.
I said it descended into the usual snore fest of bashing the owner for not being interested of which there is no proof and appears to be trotted out by certain posters when they run out of other things to have a good moan about, which is simply disagreeing with the posts made on the match thread. I also described it as poisonous, the thread itself, as I felt it was way over the top with people rinsing their hands at a performance that was poor but nothing we had not seen from any of the last 3 managers, the difference being we nicked it on the night.
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The match thread was 'Poisonous' ???
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It was. It got more and more out of perspective as grown men lost all control of their perspective, and then for some reason, became about the owner... again.
It amazes me that despite being the overwhelming choice for the job this summer, and despite being backed with 23 million quid give or take, higher than most clubs in the league, the minute something goes wrong it is Lambert out and Randy is the worst owner in the history of mankind with some people. Villa have been a car since the summer MON left, but there are many things that have contributed to that, not just the actions of Lerner and Faulkner who have got plenty wrong, and some things right.
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the minute something goes wrong it is Lambert out
Who said 'Lambert out'?
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Yeah in fairness I don't think anyone wants Lambert out.
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Villa fans should be applauded for their support for Lambert especially the ".... claret and blue army..." chant. Why? Because the league table don't lie and we are mostly pretty poor. The difference between us and fans of say, Sunderland ( hee hee)and others is that large sections of supporters are not chasing the manager out. Our immediate expectations are not too high, (keep us up this season) and will give him a chance looking to the future.
We are giving him a chance because we can see what he is trying to do and think he will get it right( with some cash of course). Good for us.
See, WE are NOT fickle. We like him.
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It was. It got more and more out of perspective as grown men lost all control of their perspective, and then for some reason, became about the owner... again.
It amazes me that despite being the overwhelming choice for the job this summer, and despite being backed with 23 million quid give or take, higher than most clubs in the league, the minute something goes wrong it is Lambert out and Randy is the worst owner in the history of mankind with some people. Villa have been a car since the summer MON left, but there are many things that have contributed to that, not just the actions of Lerner and Faulkner who have got plenty wrong, and some things right.
If anybody seems to be losing all sense of perspective, it's you I'm afraid in this instance. The match thread wasn't anything like 'poisonous'. It was just people reacting honestly to what wasn't a very good match at all. Everybody was relieved that we won though, so I'm not entirely sure what your problem is.
But you are right, the club has been a car crash for ages now, and in my opinion that's all down to the utterly inept ownership of Lerner.
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It was. It got more and more out of perspective as grown men lost all control of their perspective, and then for some reason, became about the owner... again.
It amazes me that despite being the overwhelming choice for the job this summer, and despite being backed with 23 million quid give or take, higher than most clubs in the league, the minute something goes wrong it is Lambert out and Randy is the worst owner in the history of mankind with some people. Villa have been a car since the summer MON left, but there are many things that have contributed to that, not just the actions of Lerner and Faulkner who have got plenty wrong, and some things right.
But you are right, the club has been a car crash for ages now, and in my opinion that's all down to the utterly inept ownership of Lerner.
i think we sometimes forget the Ellis out protests that went on in the past, and then compare that to some minor grumblings about the current owner.
If Ellis was still in charge at the moment with things as they are then imagine the protests we would be having? Ellis would be viewed as the anti-christ! Lerner is getting off quite lightly considering the absolute nightmare that the past few seasons have become
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Lerner is getting off quite lightly considering the absolute nightmare that the past few seasons have become
Nail on the head Mark.
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If this had happened under Doug....
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I wonder why Lerner gets off lightly compared to Doug? Could it possibly be that most people think he's nowhere near as bad?
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I wonder why Lerner gets off lightly compared to Doug? Could it possibly be that most people think he's nowhere near as bad?
Probably. But then lots of people still believe all the hype and marketing nonsense.
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I wonder why Lerner gets off lightly compared to Doug? Could it possibly be that most people think he's nowhere near as bad?
Probably. But then lots of people still believe all the hype and marketing nonsense.
That's just the modern world, innit?
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I wonder why Lerner gets off lightly compared to Doug? Could it possibly be that most people think he's nowhere near as bad?
Possibly 6 years compared to 102 years. If Randolph is still here in 10 years we might be giving him worse than Herbert ever got.
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Getting results when we play poorly is something we've failed to do for the previous two seasons.
We want to win and play well while we're at it. If we cannot do that, then lets just win.
I think this manager is trying to do both, with an eye on the future; a plan. Something we've not had pre-FA Cup final.
The lack of investment for the previous two years has seen us slip. I now think the eye has been put on the ball in ways it wasn't from 2010 to 2012 and also from 2006 to 2010.
I like him and I am willing to back him for as long as it takes.
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I wonder why Lerner gets off lightly compared to Doug? Could it possibly be that most people think he's nowhere near as bad?
Probably. But then lots of people still believe all the hype and marketing nonsense.
I would have thought that as a bean counter, you'd be the first to stand up and demonstrate how Lerner has consistantly invested or are we to ignore everything because he appointed TSM and hasn't given his every last cent to the transfer kitty?
Yes, he's made mistakes but he still does what we most want him to do, invest in the club.
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There was less media and internet hype in general in Doug's days. Imagine the forums on here through the worst of Dougs reign. Fucking melt down.
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I wonder why Lerner gets off lightly compared to Doug? Could it possibly be that most people think he's nowhere near as bad?
Probably. But then lots of people still believe all the hype and marketing nonsense.
I would have thought that as a bean counter, you'd be the first to stand up and demonstrate how Lerner has consistantly invested or are we to ignore everything because he appointed TSM and hasn't given his every last cent to the transfer kitty?
Yes, he's made mistakes but he still does what we most want him to do, invest in the club.
Spending money the way Lerner has isn't investment, it's stupidity. The way he's run the club from a business perspective makes me wince.
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I wonder why Lerner gets off lightly compared to Doug? Could it possibly be that most people think he's nowhere near as bad?
Probably. But then lots of people still believe all the hype and marketing nonsense.
I would have thought that as a bean counter, you'd be the first to stand up and demonstrate how Lerner has consistantly invested or are we to ignore everything because he appointed TSM and hasn't given his every last cent to the transfer kitty?
Yes, he's made mistakes but he still does what we most want him to do, invest in the club.
Spending money the way Lerner has isn't investment, it's stupidity. The way he's run the club from a business perspective makes me wince.
The £15m he paid to former managers is indeed his own fault but with such poor attendances, cheap tickets, not to mention the fall in PL prize money, I'd say he's more than held his own regarding transfer kitty.
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I wonder why Lerner gets off lightly compared to Doug? Could it possibly be that most people think he's nowhere near as bad?
Probably. But then lots of people still believe all the hype and marketing nonsense.
I would have thought that as a bean counter, you'd be the first to stand up and demonstrate how Lerner has consistantly invested or are we to ignore everything because he appointed TSM and hasn't given his every last cent to the transfer kitty?
Yes, he's made mistakes but he still does what we most want him to do, invest in the club.
Spending money the way Lerner has isn't investment, it's stupidity. The way he's run the club from a business perspective makes me wince.
The £15m he paid to former managers is indeed his own fault but with such poor attendances, cheap tickets, not to mention the fall in PL prize money, I'd say he's more than held his own regarding transfer kitty.
The reason we have poor attendances and falling prize money is that he appointed bad managers and sold all our best players.
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Our best players asked to leave and engineered moves, he simply got the most for them he could.
He trusted his managers in the market, something that may have been naive, but then had he not backed them he would get even more stick.
The marketing shit is nothing to do with why he does not get more stick. He has put his hand in and bankrolled the club over the last few years as much as he could.
And if you want to dress it up as honesty on the thread the other night carry on, but bringing a match thread back to an owner who appointed the fans favourite for the job, then backed him with significant funds last summer as not being interested is not honesty, it is bollocks. He has made mistakes, most people do in life, but he has tried to rectify them too. As for the other comments on the thread, such as ALbrighton being a ****** for mis hitting a cross, or the continuous moaning like old women on there, it was a pretty poisonous one. That is my honest opinion. Something you have already had a shot at Risso. But then optimism is not allowed in your world is it.
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And if you want to dress it up as honesty on the thread the other night carry on, but bringing a match thread back to an owner who appointed the fans favourite for the job, then backed him with significant funds last summer as not being interested is not honesty, it is bollocks. He has made mistakes, most people do in life, but he has tried to rectify them too. As for the other comments on the thread, such as ALbrighton being a c*** for mis hitting a cross, or the continuous moaning like old women on there, it was a pretty poisonous one. That is my honest opinion. Something you have already had a shot at Risso. But then optimism is not allowed in your world is it.
He may have appointed a fans favourite in Lambert, but the way he shoved us backwards with the appointments of Houllier and McCatpiss, after floundering when O'Neill walked, beggars belief.
For a so called interested Chairman, his appointment of the hideous and inept Scottish Manager comes across as some sort of footballing Hari-Kari.
If you only judged him on that, it would be bad enough.
And i'll ask again, where were the 'Lambert out' comments?
or the continuous moaning like old women on there, it was a pretty poisonous one
The match thread is best avoided if you don't like moaning when we're playng shit.
You hear nothing but moaning at Villa Park if we're playing poorly, it's been like that for eons, it's nothing new.
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Fletch, this thread is called Lambert Out..... Risso said he would prefer to have Big Sam than Lambert the other night and exclaimed he is doing a shit job, and the tone of the match thread was turning against Lambert over the Bent decision at 0-0. It was like we were 3-0 down. There was just Fergal and a few others fighting the tide with the slightest bit of optimism.
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I wonder why Lerner gets off lightly compared to Doug? Could it possibly be that most people think he's nowhere near as bad?
Probably. But then lots of people still believe all the hype and marketing nonsense.
I would have thought that as a bean counter, you'd be the first to stand up and demonstrate how Lerner has consistantly invested or are we to ignore everything because he appointed TSM and hasn't given his every last cent to the transfer kitty?
Yes, he's made mistakes but he still does what we most want him to do, invest in the club.
Spending money the way Lerner has isn't investment, it's stupidity. The way he's run the club from a business perspective makes me wince.
The £15m he paid to former managers is indeed his own fault but with such poor attendances, cheap tickets, not to mention the fall in PL prize money, I'd say he's more than held his own regarding transfer kitty.
The reason we have poor attendances and falling prize money is that he appointed bad managers and sold all our best players.
http://hereisthecity.com/2012/11/30/the-37-million-aston-villa-got-for-young-and-downing-looks-bette/
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Fletch, this thread is called Lambert Out..... Risso said he would prefer to have Big Sam than Lambert the other night and exclaimed he is doing a shit job
I don't think he's happy with him, but i'm not sure he wants him sacked.
I'm sure he'll tell us.
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Fletch, this thread is called Lambert Out..... Risso said he would prefer to have Big Sam than Lambert the other night and exclaimed he is doing a shit job, and the tone of the match thread was turning against Lambert over the Bent decision at 0-0. It was like we were 3-0 down. There was just Fergal and a few others fighting the tide with the slightest bit of optimism.
Oh good lord. Have a read of the first thread in this topic, you'll see why it's called "Lambert Out?" Nobody has actually said that at all though. And so what if I'd have preferred another manager, I'd rather have Pep Guardiola as well. If you're going to be such a delicate little flower when people are having a bit of a moan because they don't like the team being in and out of the bottom three, you're not going to enjoy this place very much for the forseeable future.
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Is Risso happy with anything at the moment.....is he getting enough sleep methinks?
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IIRC most of this site wanted Old Gunnar Solksjear
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I wanted Martinez. But, am happy we got Lambert and fully back him. I can see the bigger picture.
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Fuck me, I'm glad I missed that match-thread. It's three days later now and I'm still a bit scared to read it.
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Fletch, this thread is called Lambert Out..... Risso said he would prefer to have Big Sam than Lambert the other night and exclaimed he is doing a shit job, and the tone of the match thread was turning against Lambert over the Bent decision at 0-0. It was like we were 3-0 down. There was just Fergal and a few others fighting the tide with the slightest bit of optimism.
Oh good lord. Have a read of the first thread in this topic, you'll see why it's called "Lambert Out?" Nobody has actually said that at all though. And so what if I'd have preferred another manager, I'd rather have Pep Guardiola as well. If you're going to be such a delicate little flower when people are having a bit of a moan because they don't like the team being in and out of the bottom three, you're not going to enjoy this place very much for the forseeable future.
Don't start belittling with your little flower bollocks. You take moaning to a new, slightly angry level at the moment, and lace almost every football related thread with it. You are at present the equivalent of those shadow creatures that drag bad ghosts off to their doom in the aptly named film, Ghost. If I was a delicate little flower I would watch in silence.
Oh and you wanted Lambert, just turned on him in 12 games a few nights ago.
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Fuck me, I'm glad I missed that match-thread. It's three days later now and I'm still a bit scared to read it.
I think it annoyed me much more at the time than reading it back would now.
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Modern day football - no patience. We were a sack of sh*t last season and Lambert has the task of sorting it out with little in the way of cash. Give him time I say and he'll turn it around. We will stay up this season.
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Is Risso happy with anything at the moment.....is he getting enough sleep methinks?
Oh great, my own cyber-stalker.
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Fuck me, I'm glad I missed that match-thread. It's three days later now and I'm still a bit scared to read it.
Christ, I know ozz has come over all unnecessary, but surely not you as well. It was hardly anything out of the ordinary. "Bloody useless Albrighton" "What a crap game" "Gooooooal!". That sort of thing.
It was hardly the police report from the Utoya island shootings.
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Fuck me, I'm glad I missed that match-thread. It's three days later now and I'm still a bit scared to read it.
Christ, I know ozz has come over all unnecessary, but surely not you as well. It was hardly anything out of the ordinary. "Bloody useless Albrighton" "What a crap game" "Gooooooal!". That sort of thing.
It was hardly the police report from the Utoya island shootings.
With your level of negativity, if I am unnecessary god help us all.
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I know it's only a match-thread Riss, but I probably would have got all emotional and banned.
And I hate falling out with my fellow Villains.
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Fuck me, I'm glad I missed that match-thread. It's three days later now and I'm still a bit scared to read it.
Christ, I know ozz has come over all unnecessary, but surely not you as well. It was hardly anything out of the ordinary. "Bloody useless Albrighton" "What a crap game" "Gooooooal!". That sort of thing.
It was hardly the police report from the Utoya island shootings.
For fear of my sanity and/or memory I looked at it again.
I can't see anything poisonous about it, i've heard far, far worse at Villa Park.
I'll bet there were some right pearlers being screamed down there Tuesday night.
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Is Risso happy with anything at the moment.....is he getting enough sleep methinks?
Oh great, my own cyber-stalker.
Oh no just genuine concern
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Fuck me, I'm glad I missed that match-thread. It's three days later now and I'm still a bit scared to read it.
Christ, I know ozz has come over all unnecessary, but surely not you as well. It was hardly anything out of the ordinary. "Bloody useless Albrighton" "What a crap game" "Gooooooal!". That sort of thing.
It was hardly the police report from the Utoya island shootings.
There was an air of bitchy moaning to the thread that hadn't been there previously, even when we were playing poorly/ getting stuffed, people managed to keep their sense of humour. It felt like people simply wanted to out do each other in the moaning stakes.
I blame Darren Bent.
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He started it
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Is Risso happy with anything at the moment.....is he getting enough sleep methinks?
Oh great, my own cyber-stalker.
Oh no just genuine concern
Give the bloke a break, it is pantomine season afterall. ;)
Despite what you may think, Risso does look for the positives, certainly I've seen plenty of posts where he's been very optimistic. His main bee in the bonet is Lerner's management but maybe he's got his professional head on and can see all the errors. It's worth pointing out though that accountants or CFO's very rarely get invited to become CEO's, mainly due to the world not being black and white.
As for the Match threads, there are plenty of misery arses on there but as already pointed out, it's pretty much like being at the match. Just remind me next time I'm at Villa Park not to sit near bloody Fletch or that loon Jimbo. What a pair of nagging, old women they are.
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Fuck me, I'm glad I missed that match-thread. It's three days later now and I'm still a bit scared to read it.
Christ, I know ozz has come over all unnecessary, but surely not you as well. It was hardly anything out of the ordinary. "Bloody useless Albrighton" "What a crap game" "Gooooooal!". That sort of thing.
It was hardly the police report from the Utoya island shootings.
With your level of negativity, if I am unnecessary god help us all.
There there, time for your nap yet? Glass of warm milk perhaps, some gentle music by Richard Clayderman maybe. Wouldn't want to upset you.
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Is Risso happy with anything at the moment.....is he getting enough sleep methinks?
Oh great, my own cyber-stalker.
Oh no just genuine concern
FWIW, things Villa related I'm happy with:
Players like Ireland, Benteke, Weimann and Lowton.
The fact that we've nearly got rid off all the dross like Hutton and Warnock. Just N'Zogbia to go and the decks will be clear.
Decent performances like Newcastle away and Arsenal at home.
Things I'm not
Our worst start in decades
Being in the bottom four
Not scoring many goals
Crap performances like Southampton away and Everton at home.
Hardly anything unreasonable there I'd say, and bearing in mind tha we've had three crap years in a row now, hardly revolutionary either.
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Just remind me next time I'm at Villa Park not to sit near bloody Fletch or that loon Jimbo. What a pair of nagging, old women they are.
I'd either deafen you or clout you one with my gesticulating, Dr Magnus Pyke arms.
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some gentle music by Richard Clayderman maybe.
Don't knock the Clayderman.
He's da bomb.
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Richard Clayderman and Dr Magnus Pyke on one page on here is just one of the reasons I love H&V.
Excellent stuff, chaps.
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Risso: "I'm sick and tired of being told I'm sick and tired"
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Tuesday's match thread was just like every other match thread.
It's like being at the match and the people around moan all the fucking time, then when you get a winner with 10 minutes to go, they're happy. Only with match threads, it's all recorded for posterity. Not exactly hugely controversial.
If we're going to get all high-horse about a few people slagging Albrighton off on here, god only knows what we think those who actually booed at the match when he put his cross into the stands should be punished with.
Man the fuck up.**
** in a nice way, obv
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I was more relieved than happy, but you make a good point.
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how much would we get for Albrighton now?
can we throw him in for Ince for a deal.
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Moaning and fickleness is all part of the DNA of a football supporter, for anyone in any doubt I suggest you listen to 606 for an hour on any given Saturday evening
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Albrighton :
I've seen him play and he's been motm many times. In fact I've walked to the ground and recommended he play in front of Young and Downing on the basis he created more and scored more. Clearly times have changed and his recent performances have not been good.
I would recommend that we give him the benefit of the doubt in the short term at least. Admittedly its in the past but he's performed better than Ireland, Nzogbia and Holman have ever done.
Maybe its because he's a local local lad and a villa fan but I reckon he's worth sticking with.
Here's hoping ...
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Tuesday's match thread was just like every other match thread.
It's like being at the match and the people around moan all the fucking time, then when you get a winner with 10 minutes to go, they're happy. Only with match threads, it's all recorded for posterity. Not exactly hugely controversial.
If we're going to get all high-horse about a few people slagging Albrighton off on here, god only knows what we think those who actually booed at the match when he put his cross into the stands should be punished with.
Man the fuck up.**
** in a nice way, obv
Exactly.
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Tuesday's match thread was just like every other match thread.
It's like being at the match and the people around moan all the fucking time, then when you get a winner with 10 minutes to go, they're happy. Only with match threads, it's all recorded for posterity. Not exactly hugely controversial.
If we're going to get all high-horse about a few people slagging Albrighton off on here, god only knows what we think those who actually booed at the match when he put his cross into the stands should be punished with.
Man the fuck up.**
** in a nice way, obv
When I'm at the match I moan, groan and cheer with everyone else. If I had to stop to type out my moans, groans and cheers then I probably wouldn't bother. I steer clear of the match threads in the main because I find the ranting all a bit unnecessary (in the nicest possible way etc) but I'm sure they serve a purpose for those who join in.
So my life changing advice would be, if you don't like them don't read them.
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Listen to 606? I'd rather listen to Coldplay.
Actually, fuck that. When's it on?
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For every penny we've ever put into the club, or every sunday morning that's been ruined by the afternoon before, or anytime we signed a player like Heskey instead of the more promising ones papers had linked us too earlier, we are more than entitled to have the odd pissy moan on a match thread or in the stadium. I thought a lot of the Reading thread was actually in good (if frustrated) humour. Certainly if there's ever been a poisonous match thread on these boards, it wasn't the last game.
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For every penny we've ever put into the club, or every sunday morning that's been ruined by the afternoon before, or anytime we signed a player like Heskey instead of the more promising ones papers had linked us too earlier, we are more than entitled to have the odd pissy moan on a match thread or in the stadium. I thought a lot of the Reading thread was actually in good (if frustrated) humour. Certainly if there's ever been a poisonous match thread on these boards, it wasn't the last game.
Agee with all of that. Also not sure why the match thread comes in for special criticism in the negativity stakes? Any thread when we're not playing well has the propensity to get a little moody!!
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Tuesday's match thread was just like every other match thread.
It's like being at the match and the people around moan all the fucking time, then when you get a winner with 10 minutes to go, they're happy. Only with match threads, it's all recorded for posterity. Not exactly hugely controversial.
If we're going to get all high-horse about a few people slagging Albrighton off on here, god only knows what we think those who actually booed at the match when he put his cross into the stands should be punished with.
Man the fuck up.**
** in a nice way, obv
Exactly.
Agreed.
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The Reading match thread was my way of following what was going on, combined with the BBC website live football page, for a bit of balance. The BBC page gave the impression in the first half that we were on top and that we were quite comfortable. I switched over to the match thread thinking great, there'll be a goal coming along soon, and my first thought when I got there was, 'Bloody hell, I'm glad I'm not watching this!' It was all good fun though, especially Fergal's calling of the goal a few seconds before it went in and then - I think it was - Cooper's 'I'm not even at the ground and I want my money back!'.
In general, I think the match threads give the impression that we are either useless or world beaters, but they are good fun to follow.
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The Reading match thread was my way of following what was going on, combined with the BBC website live football page, for a bit of balance. The BBC page gave the impression in the first half that we were on top and that we were quite comfortable. I switched over to the match thread thinking great, there'll be a goal coming along soon, and my first thought when I got there was, 'Bloody hell, I'm glad I'm not watching this!' It was all good fun though, especially Fergal's calling of the goal a few seconds before it went in and then - I think it was - Cooper's 'I'm not even at the ground and I want my money back!'.
In general, I think the match threads give the impression that we are either useless or world beaters, but they are good fun to follow.
They're like a visual interpretation of a Tom Ross commentary.
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The Reading match thread was my way of following what was going on, combined with the BBC website live football page, for a bit of balance. The BBC page gave the impression in the first half that we were on top and that we were quite comfortable. I switched over to the match thread thinking great, there'll be a goal coming along soon, and my first thought when I got there was, 'Bloody hell, I'm glad I'm not watching this!' It was all good fun though, especially Fergal's calling of the goal a few seconds before it went in and then - I think it was - Cooper's 'I'm not even at the ground and I want my money back!'.
In general, I think the match threads give the impression that we are either useless or world beaters, but they are good fun to follow.
It took me ages to figure it out, but you really need to take everything said on them with a grain of salt. Superlatives! Superlatives and Hyperbole everywhere!
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Tuesday's match thread was just like every other match thread.
It's like being at the match and the people around moan all the fucking time, then when you get a winner with 10 minutes to go, they're happy. Only with match threads, it's all recorded for posterity. Not exactly hugely controversial.
If we're going to get all high-horse about a few people slagging Albrighton off on here, god only knows what we think those who actually booed at the match when he put his cross into the stands should be punished with.
Man the fuck up.**
** in a nice way, obv
When I'm at the match I moan, groan and cheer with everyone else. If I had to stop to type out my moans, groans and cheers then I probably wouldn't bother. I steer clear of the match threads in the main because I find the ranting all a bit unnecessary (in the nicest possible way etc) but I'm sure they serve a purpose for those who join in.
So my life changing advice would be, if you don't like them don't read them.
I have been positive and tried my best to believe that we will start to climb up the table and with a few quality additions to the team will finish comfortably mid table...
WIBBLE
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Listen to 606? I'd rather listen to Coldplay.
Actually, fuck that. When's it on?
Saturday's 6-8pm, quite funny with the Villa fans calling Savage every week.
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Tuesday's match thread was just like every other match thread.
It's like being at the match and the people around moan all the fucking time, then when you get a winner with 10 minutes to go, they're happy. Only with match threads, it's all recorded for posterity. Not exactly hugely controversial.
If we're going to get all high-horse about a few people slagging Albrighton off on here, god only knows what we think those who actually booed at the match when he put his cross into the stands should be punished with.
Man the fuck up.**
** in a nice way, obv
Exactly.
Agreed.
Manning up would also surely entail keeping a bit of perspective about the side and not start banging on about the negatives when you are drawing a game nil nil, and deciding we are doomed 13 games into a season. I can see the point, but there is no need to call Albrighton a ****** for kicking a ball wrong. There are plenty of ****** in the country, calling one of our own one is not something I am that impressed by.
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Tuesday's match thread was just like every other match thread.
It's like being at the match and the people around moan all the fucking time, then when you get a winner with 10 minutes to go, they're happy. Only with match threads, it's all recorded for posterity. Not exactly hugely controversial.
If we're going to get all high-horse about a few people slagging Albrighton off on here, god only knows what we think those who actually booed at the match when he put his cross into the stands should be punished with.
Man the fuck up.**
** in a nice way, obv
Exactly.
Agreed.
Manning up would also surely entail keeping a bit of perspective about the side and not start banging on about the negatives when you are drawing a game nil nil, and deciding we are doomed 13 games into a season. I can see the point, but there is no need to call Albrighton a c*** for kicking a ball wrong. There are plenty of c***s in the country, calling one of our own one is not something I am that impressed by.
If I was you, i'd never set foot inside Villa Park again.
I've heard our players called far worse than that down there.
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So have I mark... But surely I am entitled to not like one of our own being called it without taking it to an extreme of not going to the ground??
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Give me £20k a week and you can call me whatever the f*ck you like!
With regard to the issue of groaning and moaning at players, most of the time its an instant reaction to the players touch etc... its not like were singing he's a c*nt for periods of the game!
I have called most of our team useless twats over the years but mostly in a moment of frustration at an inept performance, I'm not sure what somepeople expect? perhaps a polite "Never mind son, maybe next time" and a shrug of the shoulders?