Lambert Out?

[He wears a magic hat]

That Moscow game really was the problem - It said to the senior players that really our ambition was negligable.

After all the hard work they had put in MON threw it in their face. I bet that was the day that Gareth Barry decided it was time to go

[not3bad]

I bet that was the day that Gareth Barry decided it was time to go

Difficult to say.  If we'd have finished top 4 that year MON's gamble would have been vindicated and Barry would have had reason to think again.  That's why to me, Stoke was the bigger turning point.

[eastie]

I bet that was the day that Gareth Barry decided it was time to go

Difficult to say.  If we'd have finished top 4 that year MON's gamble would have been vindicated and Barry would have had reason to think again.  That's why to me, Stoke was the bigger turning point.

I think the two were linked , there was a negative feeling  around the club after the Moscow game and the stoke game followed a few days later, we never really recovered from there.

[pedro25]

With O'Neill it felt like we were a few quality players away from challenging the top four so when we had Milner, Barry, Young etc we were almost there, on the brink.  When Carew smashed that volley in against Stoke it seemed for all the world we would get into the top 4 that year.  The Stoke comeback was sickening, following on the back of Moscow, and we have been in decline ever since really.  We are so much further away from challenging now than when M'ON took over.  I mean how can we possibly get near the top 4 with no money to spend and even the European Champions only managed 6th last season.  It all feels pretty hopeless, but if we could nick a League Cup win like Blues did that would still be extremely satisfying, but probably the best we can ever hope for now.  Still to be in the op 4 and constantly challenging yet not winning anything, like Arsenal, must also be incredibly frustrating anyway so no matter how well you're doing you'll always want more.

[MonsXI]

I bet that was the day that Gareth Barry decided it was time to go

Difficult to say.  If we'd have finished top 4 that year MON's gamble would have been vindicated and Barry would have had reason to think again.  That's why to me, Stoke was the bigger turning point.

I think the two were linked , there was a negative feeling  around the club after the Moscow game and the stoke game followed a few days later, we never really recovered from there.

See I'm not sure, I think the players would understand the MON's thinking re Moscow because most players would've preferred a shot a the CL the following season. The Stoke game on the other hand was a realisation for most that we probably weren't good enough to warrant a top 4 finish.

Other than being beaten by the Noses I can't remember feeling as gutted as I did walking to Aston station made worse by the Stoke fans goading us from their passing coaches.

[fbriai]

I agree that the fallout from the Moscow game and the subsequent draw with Stoke was pivotal. By essentially surrendering the fixture in Moscow, MON placed a huge amount of pressure on the following game. Too much pressure, ultimately. Had they come away with a victory, things may have turned out differently, but, when it went to 2-1, you just knew that it was a gamble that was about to backfire.

[glasses]

Just looking back at the official website. After the Stoke game in March we were still fourth place. Six points ahead of Arsenal, and three behind Chelsea in second (Second?!) We were fifth and ten points behind Arsenal by the time we next won a match. Hull at home in the May. Two months without a win killed us.

For me, the key factors in the swing were the Moscow debate (I say debate because I really could see the merits in both arguements at the time, and still now. However, If he had just stuck with the same team there wouldn't be a debate to be had) The Stoke fiasco. Us signing Heskey, them signing Arshavin. If someone is bored enough, I'd love to see a comparison of goals and assists for that season for those two side by side. Actually, I don't think I would, and I think the answer is probably obvious!

[nick harper]

I agree that the fallout from the Moscow game and the subsequent draw with Stoke was pivotal. By essentially surrendering the fixture in Moscow, MON placed a huge amount of pressure on the following game. Too much pressure, ultimately. Had they come away with a victory, things may have turned out differently, but, when it went to 2-1, you just knew that it was a gamble that was about to backfire.

In fairness, the Stoke result was a complete freak. They were the worst side I'd seen at VP for a long time for 80 mins but we just went to pieces in those last 10 mins. I can remember screaming for O'Neill to shore up the midfield as Petrov was out on his feet and to slow the game down but he did nothing and we blew it. Still puzzled how the team seemed to completely switch off though.

[Concrete John]

Just looking back at the official website. After the Stoke game in March we were still fourth place. Six points ahead of Arsenal, and three behind Chelsea in second (Second?!) We were fifth and ten points behind Arsenal by the time we next won a match. Hull at home in the May. Two months without a win killed us.

I think the thing about the Stoke game was that in really knocked the wind out of our sails, especially given the Moscow thing in the background.  I'm a great believer in momentum for a football side and that just saped all of ours out of us and it took too long to recover mentally from it.   

[not3bad]

we just went to pieces in those last 10 mins. I can remember screaming for O'Neill to shore up the midfield as Petrov was out on his feet and to slow the game down but he did nothing and we blew it.

Still feel angry when I read this.

[supertom]

The difference too was that Arsenal had a bigger, better, fitter squad. We were dead on our feet for much of the last few months because O Neill rarely rotated, except in Europe of course. But most definitely, we haven't been the same since. You could feel the team falling apart somewhat. Finishing fourth would possibly have meant Milner staying and maybe Randy foregoing the book balancing thanks to possible CL cash injections. Slipping to 6th, albeit with a very impressive 64 points haul, wasn't enough to keep hold of our better players. Milner went, Ash Young we knew wouldn't stay too much longer, and the rest is history.

I can't blame Lambert too much for the current predicament. He's fighting with 3 years of rapid decline and ever dwindling quality in the side. He's made poor decisions tactically I know, and made questionnable signings, but he's at least been brave about what he's gone about doing, and he's trying to alter years of a very predictable, one dimensional style of play.

We have been piss poor but I think he'll turn it around. Whether he can this season is another matter. Should we go down, I think he'll have started building a side capable of taking us back up and being better for it, and a side that largely, won't jump ship.

[silhillvilla]

Just read over the last page whilst grinding my teeth really hard.
Those 4 days around Moscow and Stoke are still hard to take. I think we all still have the scars.

[eastie]

Just read over the last page whilst grinding my teeth really hard.
Those 4 days around Moscow and Stoke are still hard to take. I think we all still have the scars.

Correct.

[N'ZMAV]

Just read over the last page whilst grinding my teeth really hard.
Those 4 days around Moscow and Stoke are still hard to take. I think we all still have the scars.

I hope MON does too.

[Irish villain]

The difference too was that Arsenal had a bigger, better, fitter squad. We were dead on our feet for much of the last few months because O Neill rarely rotated, except in Europe of course. But most definitely, we haven't been the same since. You could feel the team falling apart somewhat. Finishing fourth would possibly have meant Milner staying and maybe Randy foregoing the book balancing thanks to possible CL cash injections. Slipping to 6th, albeit with a very impressive 64 points haul, wasn't enough to keep hold of our better players. Milner went, Ash Young we knew wouldn't stay too much longer, and the rest is history.

I can't blame Lambert too much for the current predicament. He's fighting with 3 years of rapid decline and ever dwindling quality in the side. He's made poor decisions tactically I know, and made questionnable signings, but he's at least been brave about what he's gone about doing, and he's trying to alter years of a very predictable, one dimensional style of play.

We have been piss poor but I think he'll turn it around. Whether he can this season is another matter. Should we go down, I think he'll have started building a side capable of taking us back up and being better for it, and a side that largely, won't jump ship.

We kept them both for another season. It was Barry we lost that pivotal, pivotal summer. It would nearly make you cry.

We went from potential title challengers in January 2009  to sixth with a stronger challenge from Man City and Spurs sure to follow.