Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Summers on December 03, 2011, 09:12:29 PM
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We, almost all, want him gone. But who do you want in? Or who would you expect in?
I'd take Mark Hughes in a flash. He's still a free agent, and I think one of the characteristics Lerner would consider this time round is £££. A lot of people mentioned Paul Lambert before we got Eck, and he's impressed me so far at Norwich. John Gregory was at the game today, I'd prefer him to McLeish now. :-\
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He won't be sacked.
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Correct
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I'd be amazed if he was sacked before Feb/March, and I think we'd have to be firmly in the shit for it to happen. Randy would lose a lot of face as well as the club would lose another chunk of cash if we sack him.
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Hughes for sure. He's the perfect match for us. A manager who can work well on a budget, has a good Premier League record, delivers free flowing football and is fairly good in the transfer market.
We never had a better chance to get him in the summer. Seriously, it was unacceptable on so many levels that the board made this massive cock up. And you just know they'll do it again, again and again from now on.
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Hughes would be the obvious choice. Does anyone know why we didn't go for him in the summer?
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Somebody ambitious and who tries to play football.
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He won't be sacked but my mom could do a better job and she knows fuck all
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Hughes would be the obvious choice. Does anyone know why we didn't go for him in the summer?
Something to do with Hughes walking away from Fulham or something. But they tapped McLeish up who did exactly the same to Blues. Bunch of hypocritial fairies. I think they may have a mental health problem. That's the only reasonable logical explanation that I could make a summary of them two useless prats.
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Hughes. Took Fulham to 7th, would take us at least to there. Its frustrating because he's still available too. Sadly Randy won't sack McLeish. Admit the fans were right and he was wrong... heap big humble pie.
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After GH and AM, the mind boggles as to who Lerner might pick next. It might be worth a flutter on Barry Fry.
AM is a truly awful manager but RL has to take most of the credit for our current situation. He let MON have too much power, then appointed a man with serious health issues and then Agent Alex.
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i'd have hughes. Got Ireland playing half well, fucked Dunne off as soon as he could. Not a fan but needs must.
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Trevor Francis, Steve Bruce and Terry Cooper are available.
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Dunno really. I'm torn between Sooty and Sweep as a joint management team, or Al Pacino cos he did a really good job in that film about The Saturdays or whatever it was...
Failing that, just draw a smiley face on a balloon and tie it up in the dressing room. It'll do the same job for a lot less money.
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Failing that, just draw a smiley face on a balloon and tie it up in the dressing room. It'll do the same job for a lot less money.
Very good.
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I'll do it. For a tenth of the wage. Even more cost-effective for Randy.
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Hughes would be the obvious choice. Does anyone know why we didn't go for him in the summer?
Something to do with Hughes walking away from Fulham or something. But they tapped McLeish up who did exactly the same to Blues. Bunch of hypocritial fairies. I think they may have a mental health problem. That's the only reasonable logical explanation that I could make a summary of them two useless prats.
When you haven't got a clue what you're talking about the best thing to do is keep quiet.
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Trevor Francis, Steve Bruce and Terry Cooper are available.
What about the gipsy or barry austin ?
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Dean Saunders?
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Unfortunately I don't think Lerner will sack McLeish until it's too late. I think McLeish's brief for this year was to cut the wage bill while keeping us in the PL. No other footballing ambitions - as witnessed by the letter to ST holders. Lerner will stick with him until we're practically relegated. I think the only way he'll sack him is if we drop - and there'll probably be a clause in his contract to avoid paying him off if that happens. Given that we'll either be beyond saving or actually in the Championship we won't attract the likes of Hughes or Hiddinck. The really bad news is that if by some miracle we stay in the PL - McLeish will have met his remit and will be kept on. We are steadfastly stuck between a rock and a hard place.
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While Wigan, Blackburn and Bolton, amongst others, are around, there is no chance of us going down. No chance of us doing anything else bar existing mind.
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Unfortunately I don't think Lerner will sack McLeish until it's too late. I think McLeish's brief for this year was to cut the wage bill while keeping us in the PL. No other footballing ambitions - as witnessed by the letter to ST holders. Lerner will stick with him until we're practically relegated. I think the only way he'll sack him is if we drop - and there'll probably be a clause in his contract to avoid paying him off if that happens. Given that we'll either be beyond saving or actually in the Championship we won't attract the likes of Hughes or Hiddinck. The really bad news is that if by some miracle we stay in the PL - McLeish will have met his remit and will be kept on. We are steadfastly stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Unfortunately CJ i think you've got it spot on.
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i think he will remove AM if necessary. with blackburn winning we're now 6 points from the bottom with this run coming. if we pick up the points total most of us think likely then we're not gonna be far off the relegation places come january. End of the day if you've got a chairman who only cares about the balance sheet then he's not gonna live with a big 20m plus loss from relegation just to save face. And lets face it we're a team with totally no fight in it. Stick us in the mix with the relegation battlers and you wouldn't fancy our chances
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McLeish has a lot of experience with that.
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Hughes
+ Somewhat decent football (Like Barca compared to now)
+ Can spot a good few players in the market (Samba, majority of City squad his)
+ Can get best of his players (even Ireland!?)
+ Worked with a few of our players before
+ Good record in the prem
- Hughes ditched his club in a second the minute a better offer was coming (he thought)
- He wanted clauses to say he could leave us if a top club came in
- He would put Ireland in the team, who, simply, we cannot afford to keep
- Would stall progress of Gardner and Bannan
- He only looked good for 12 months when playing with Robinho
- He costs 70k a week that would be better spent on 2 new players.
- His agent is a massive twat
- His agent would likely try and sign up our players ( see last point )
- Did I mention that letting Kia Joorabchian anywhere near this club would be terrible?
- If Joorabchian signed up ANY of our youngsters we can say goodbye to them pretty much instantly.
Paul Lambert
+ Good style of play
+ Is currently only a couple of points behind us, despite having 0 Premiership quality players
+ Gets the best of his team
+ Is capable of pulling off shock results (Liverpool, so close vs Utd) - No doubt he could do it here.
+ Relatively cheap as he's (no disrespect) only at Norwich
+ Young Manager, could be our David Moyes
- Very close to Martin O'Neill (in terms of personality and they are close friends
- Even his mannerisms match MON's!
- Norwich have attempted more long-passes (read: Hoofs) than us this season, putting a dampner on the 'Good Football'
- Would mean paying compo (though cheap) not sure Lerner would do this again
- Relatively inexperienced, Norwich only in their first Prem season.. could get a big case of 'Second Season Syndrome'
Gus Poyet
+ He is foreign
+ His name sounds nice
+ Good style of play
+ Very good with youth
+ Gets best of his players
+ Young manager, could build a legacy
- Never managed in the Premiership
- Only B&HA's first championship season, again, could get a big case of Second Season Syndrome
- Could find he is well out of his depth managing in the Premiership
- Big Risk taking such an inexperienced manager, it could fail with disastrous consequences
- Unproven (long term) in the transfer market (but, in fairness he seems to have done very well so far!)
Owen Coyle
+Good with Youth, shown with Sturridge
+Good in the transfer market, Sturridge, tried desperately to try and sign Jeffren
+Good style of play
+Relatively young manager looking to build a legacy
- Big case of Second Season Syndrome
- Appears to be something wrong with his training to create such a big Injury Crisis at Bolton
- Finished his one good season in the prem with some very bad form
- Inconsistent (plays well, then gets spanked by Stoke 5-0)
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer
+SAF said he is one of the best 'Students of Football' he has ever known
+Plays very good football
+ Comes with strong links to UTD in terms of loan deals and getting decent players in towards end of career (... if these are plusses?).
+Has won the league with Molde for the first time and is very promising
+One of the big up and coming managers in football.. could be a big big coup for the club
- Very inexperienced
- Spent at Molde to win the league
- Only ever managed one club
- That club is in the Norweigen League
- Inevitable Love-in trip to Old Trafford
- Big links to Utd
- The Letter Randy would receive from SAF would probably make RL die of happyness
This is where I am at. FWIW I would definitely go with Lambert if we could get him, but he is so close to MON that I am sure he will know all the backstory to his leaving, tribunal etc. May be a reason for him to say no... his closeness to MON could also be a mitigating factor for Randy not going for him (but maybe Randy regrets what happened with MON and this could work in Lamberts favour)
Poyet would be very good, but if it failed Randy would be lambasted for taking on a manager with little-to-no experience.
Would be happy with any of the above.. but not hughes. Sorry, just no, not until he gets rid of Joorabchian
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As we could'nt attract anybody of any real substance or standing in the Summer when we'd just come off another top 10 finnish with a new 20 mill striker at the Club and some good (and now largely sold) players in the squad, I shudder to think who we'd be getting now.
Who i'd want would be Gus Hiddink. Who we'd get would be Gus Poyet.
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Don't think he'll be sacked any time soon. At the earliest he'll be off in January and if we don't have a seriously bad run he'll probably last until the end of the season.
I think our options will be limited by the constraints the new man will be operating under. Things were much more opportune in the summer and we ended up with McLeish. I don't think we'll be able to attract someone like Rodgers or Lambert solely for the fact they probably feel a loyalty to their clubs and won't be tempted to leave in the middle of the season. I don't think Hughes is a goer as I doubt whatever reason the board didn't want him in the summer has disappeared and I don't think he'll be keen as we rejected him before. I think we should be looking for someone who can work to a limited budget and who is a relatively young coach which leads me to suggest Simon Grayson.
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There's no energy, belief or passion. The players clearly know that McMinge ain't going to do it for the club. The back four monkeys are back in easy street and the rest of the team are back-peddling as a result.
If RL had any sense at all he'd see the writing on the wall and cut his losses with McMinge.
The problem is: who could we bring in as manager? - Hughes is obvious but we already overlooked him in the summer. Coyle's season has done for him. Ditto Martinez.
Looks like someone from the Championship - well Sven's available; Lee Clark's a great manager, it seems; Southampton's manager would be good but he would not leave as they are doing so well; Gus Poyet would be a good shout.
Not an enviable decision or choice.
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Dean Saunders?
Right now i'd take Finbarr Saunders. He'd make us tight at the rear. Fnaar fnaar.
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But none of it matters because AM isnt getting sacked.
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Kev McD will do for the rest of the season.
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He won't be sacked.
This.
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Anybody, but we are stuck with AM.
AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH.
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Any of Steve Bruce, Trevor Francis or Gary Pendry. For a laugh.
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In all seriousness, I'd go for Nigel Adkins. He's doing great things with Southampton.
And he has said this:
"We have a winning mentality. We have the principles of how we want to play. It's a simple game really. When we've got it, pass it to each other. When we haven't got it, get it back."
I instinctively like the man.
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With their "to me, to you" passing style of football, I think the Chuckle Brothers would be a significant improvement.
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In all seriousness, I'd go for Nigel Adkins. He's doing great things with Southampton.
And he has said this:
"We have a winning mentality. We have the principles of how we want to play. It's a simple game really. When we've got it, pass it to each other. When we haven't got it, get it back."
I instinctively like the man.
Wow, that's the antithesis of what we have at the moment. Lets try that because what we are doing at the moment is a big steaming pile of shit.
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We need someone to run the club first. Randy Lerner and his yes men need to be taken away from any football decisions. Getting in McLeish was a collossal fuck up but even if they sack him Bob Bradley or Bruce Arena are likely to be their next choice.
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Allthough I've serious doubts about Big Eck, it makes no sense to sack him after losing to Man Utd and while we're in the top half of the table. I don't see him leaving before the end of the season unless (a) there is a player revolt, or (b) we get stuck in 20th place looking a relegation certainty. Neither scenario looks likely: because (a) Gabby and Bent may be frustrated, but a lot of our players will be happy that they can get away with half-arsed performances while the manager takes the blame; and (b) while we will probably be hovering around the relegation zone in February, there are other teams in the Premier League that are just as shite as us.
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Hughes would be the obvious choice. Does anyone know why we didn't go for him in the summer?
With hindsight, that was so stupid. I genuinely thought we didn't go for him because we had somebody like Benitez in mind!
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Hughes would be the obvious choice. Does anyone know why we didn't go for him in the summer?
Something to do with Hughes walking away from Fulham or something. But they tapped McLeish up who did exactly the same to Blues. Bunch of hypocritial fairies. I think they may have a mental health problem. That's the only reasonable logical explanation that I could make a summary of them two useless prats.
Is that your opinion or based on something you have heard from within the club?
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But none of it matters because AM isnt getting sacked.
... yet.
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A stellar manager please. Too much to ask? Excitement? .....?
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Allthough I've serious doubts about Big Eck, it makes no sense to sack him after losing to Man Utd and while we're in the top half of the table. I don't see him leaving before the end of the season unless (a) there is a player revolt, or (b) we get stuck in 20th place looking a relegation certainty. Neither scenario looks likely: because (a) Gabby and Bent may be frustrated, but a lot of our players will be happy that they can get away with half-arsed performances while the manager takes the blame; and (b) while we will probably be hovering around the relegation zone in February, there are other teams in the Premier League that are just as shite as us.
while i'd agree there's at least three teams worse technically than us, I'm not sure there's three with less spirit
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If AM was sacked?....I would love that moment.
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I think I read or heard somewhere today that the stats show we are the worst team technically.
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Hughes would be the obvious choice. Does anyone know why we didn't go for him in the summer?
With hindsight, that was so stupid. I genuinely thought we didn't go for him because we had somebody like Benitez in mind!
Yep. Better turn down a CL-winning manager as the guy with two relegations on his CV is such an engaging conversationalist. Allthough Benitez would have been an almost incomprehensible improvement on McLeish in terms of footballing knowledge and managerial ability, it's not certain that he'd be a success. He is known to be impatient with people that have limited football knowledge, so I'm not sure how he would have got on with Faulkner and Lerner. Also, SAF doesn't like him.
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Not scored in 8 of our games despite having one of the best goalscorers in the league and the defence is still just as bad. The trigger must be pulled soon.
I did not want Hughes in the summer, but he suddenly looks as appealing as Heidi klum in a little black number-
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He is not going to be sacked. He was the owner's personal choice after the total balls up made by the board with their initial blundering.
Even if we are relegated they will keep him on because they will be able to spin him as the manager who is best at getting out of the Championship. As was already said we are between a rock and a hard place. If he keeps us up its job done and he stays. If we go down he becomes the man to get us back up again. Classic Catch 22.
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Yes, I was not in favour of getting Hughes in the summer but that was back when I had hopes we'd try and go for somebody like Ancelotti. Now Hughes seems like a mirage in the desert.
Alas, if Randy really wanted to get a manager in with some clout he would have done it then surely?
McLeish's appointment says we're scraping the shittest barrel around. Even Doug would have come up with better.
So I have little or no faith Randy either knows what he's doing or will do what's right and admit he signed a turd.
They took us on by hiring McLeish and will want to prove themselves right even when its so very wrong. The letter from Rudolph will add weight to this.
Very, very depressing.
Just get somebody in who knows how to play football and can bring youth through. Please.
Help us, Obe wan Qatari.
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He wont be sacked because our Absentee Landlord is er absent. There is nothing happening at our Club, we are just going through the motions of turning up and watching the season go by, no leadership, no direction, no passion and no glory.
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We're stuck with him and life in the lower regions of the Premier League.
Good times.
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He isn't going anywhere!
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Mark Hughes
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McLeish picked the team that many wanted.
He was let down by several of the players.
I still support McLeish.
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Mark Hughes.
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You've got to try and get Hiddink but I doubt he would come, although the optimist says that if he is prepared to do the Turkey and S. Korea gigs then villa might seem attractive.
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He won't be sacked.
The chairman has rather amateurishly painted himself into a corner over this one.
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Hang on a minute. I seem to remember Paul Faulkner saying something earlier. Something about wanting us to finish in a European spot and that's where we deserve to be? Well Paul, it's looking less and less likely with this man in charge so surely that means he has failed? Doesn't it warrant a sack? It couldn't possibly be lies could it. ::)
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Holloway, Coyle, Lambert, Keegan, the chap at MK Dons, Martinez, Brendan Rodgers, Poyet, Saunders, I'd be happy with any of them, all better than what we got now and all will play more attractive football.
But it's not going to happen is it
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The thing I still can't get my head around is we paid blose a good deal of compensation and massively increased Mcleish's wages. What on earth were the board thinking? I mean you can reel off any number of managers who would be better options and probably cheaper.
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No blame attributed to the players then?
McLeish was tearing his hair out throughout the game due to the performance.
He is being let down by these overpaid people.
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He wont be sacked because our Absentee Landlord is er absent. There is nothing happening at our Club, we are just going through the motions of turning up and watching the season go by, no leadership, no direction, no passion and no glory.
this
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No blame attributed to the players then?
McLeish was tearing his hair out throughout the game due to the performance.
He is being let down by these overpaid wankers.
Or alternatively, there is no point in picking a team designed for one strategy and just playing the usual way.
Style of football is down to a manager. It is down to his strategising, his training ground work, his beliefs and his knowledge. Today he picked Bannan, Jenas, Herd and Albrighton (Gabby and Bent sort of pick themselves) and the defenders and keeper still pinged the ball over their heads to forwards who are never designed for that neanderthal style of football, especially against defenders like Vidic and Ferdinand. And today was not an isolated incident.
Who instead of McLeish? Anybody. Well, not anybody. Not Steve Bruce, because he has exactly the same old-fashioned flaws as McLeish. But almost anybody.
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No blame attributed to the players then?
McLeish was tearing his hair out throughout the game due to the performance.
He is being let down by these overpaid people.
that i do agree with. Sooner or later you have to come to the conclusion that how many different managers you try, a lot of the players aren't good enough.
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No blame attributed to the players then?
McLeish was tearing his hair out throughout the game due to the performance.
He is being let down by these overpaid wankers.
Or alternatively, there is no point in picking a team designed for one strategy and just
playing the usual way.
Style of football is down to a manager. It is down to his strategising, his training ground work, his beliefs and his knowledge. Today he picked Bannan, Jenas, Herd and Albrighton (Gabby and Bent sort of pick themselves) and the defenders and keeper
still pinged the ball over their heads to forwards who are never designed for that neanderthal style of football, especially against defenders like Vidic and Ferdinand. And today was not an isolated incident.
Who instead of McLeish? Anybody. Well, not anybody. Not Steve Bruce, because he has exactly the same old-fashioned flaws as McLeish. But almost anybody.
Midfield let the side down again. It may be popular to blame McLeish but that is not the answer. Bent is bone idle and the midfield are clueless.
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McLeish was doomed to failure from the start. He's a bad manager, which everybody except Lerner realised, whose only hope for even minor success would have been to have been given some funds to at least sort the defence out. But a poor side from last year, with two of its best players sold and not replaced, with a defence that's absolutely woeful needed somebody far, far better than McLeish.
Lerner is ruining this club at a rate of knots.
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No blame attributed to the players then?
McLeish was tearing his hair out throughout the game due to the performance.
He is being let down by these overpaid wankers.
Or alternatively, there is no point in picking a team designed for one strategy and just
playing the usual way.
Style of football is down to a manager. It is down to his strategising, his training ground work, his beliefs and his knowledge. Today he picked Bannan, Jenas, Herd and Albrighton (Gabby and Bent sort of pick themselves) and the defenders and keeper
still pinged the ball over their heads to forwards who are never designed for that neanderthal style of football, especially against defenders like Vidic and Ferdinand. And today was not an isolated incident.
Who instead of McLeish? Anybody. Well, not anybody. Not Steve Bruce, because he has exactly the same old-fashioned flaws as McLeish. But almost anybody.
Midfield let the side down again. It may be popular to blame McLeish but that is not the answer. Bent is bone idle and the midfield are clueless.
How can it be the fault of a midfield who mostly see the ball flying over their heads?
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No blame attributed to the players then?
McLeish was tearing his hair out throughout the game due to the performance.
He is being let down by these overpaid people.
McLeish is doing as badly as I thought he would. Dreadful football, with lots of draws and the odd win to stop us actually going down, although I'm less sure of that last bit. Yes the players, and especially the defence are shit as well, but to be honest the tone has been set from the top, and it's Lerner who deserves all the criticism for the state we're in. I really do wish he'd sell up, and fuck off.
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Monty - the defence are being forced to hoof it due to the weak midfield.
Risso - I am worried about Lerner's ownership of the club. However, what can we do about it? I think he should go.
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Monty - the defence are being forced to hoof it due to the weak midfield.
Risso - I am worried about Lerner's ownership of the club. However, what can we do about it? I think he should go.
How? On many occasions Herd and Bannan would run back to offer support, only for the ball to to go back to the keeper and long to, frankly, the opposition. I will not have it that we are doing what is pragmatic. We are doing what is stupid.
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Randy Lerner and his cronies are at the same level as the chicken farmers. This appointment is a fuck you to the fans. It still beggars belief how McLeish is in charge of the side.
In saying all that I can't believe McLeish is as bad as he is turning out to be. His management of the side is frankly cowardly. We have a lot of ball players at the club but McLeish has implemented a lobsided route one joke outfit. Darren Bent running
around like a headless chicken up front chasing aimless punts.
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He won't be sacked, and neither should he be until the club appoints somebody at board level with a single idea of what football is all about (which they should do immediately). Otherwise, we're going to see this pantomime played out again and again.
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I agree the players aren't exactly covering themselves in glory regardless of what 11 or formation is picked. McLeish and the coaches have to take some of the blame though. It's their job to train them in the basic concept of passing and movement off the ball. Ours remains woeful and if anything is looking worse as the season progresses.
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The thing I still can't get my head around is we paid blose a good deal of compensation and massively increased Mcleish's wages. What on earth were the board thinking? I mean you can reel off any number of managers who would be better options and probably cheaper.
If you take the MON compensation, the Houllier wages and settlement and McLeish's wages and settlement to B-lose, that's enough to hire a manager on a Hiddink/ Ancelotti style package and still have a bit left over.
Even if they were primarily only here for the money, at that price you are getting a degree of expertise and know how. Not that I'm suggesting they were ever contenders, just highlighting the excessive waste in that particular area. Seems very much at odds with our cost cutting drive.
Get a decent (and healthy) manager = no need to waste millions in settlements. Or is that too simplistic?
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You'll be suggesting buying young cheap overseas players next Kevin. You have a lot to learn about the Villa way. *wink*
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Talk of being in a false position in the league table is often used to describe teams placed lower than they should be; very rarely used in a context where a team is still in the top half by the skin of their teeth. I think its fair to say that the majority of fans have conducted themselves very well given the appointment of AM and given him the benefit of the doubt, however the danger signs have been there for all to see for a couple of months now and the decline into the lower depths of the table is nearly upon us.
Admittedly he was been given a rough hand to play with...we've sold our best players and the players in the squad are average at best. Could another manager to do any better with what would be at his disposal? I have no idea if its down to poor training, tactics, ability, player attitudes or a combination of all, but I would like to think that another manager would have been able to string togther better results given the fixtures we've played and with a more attractive style of football.
It is sometimes best to swallow your pride, and admit that your wrong and that you've made a mistake. It took a lot of balls (or blatant naievity) for Randy to appoint AM, lets just hope he's got the balls to step up and sack him before its too late for someone else to do anything about it.
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Does anything illustrate how shit the top flight is now better than the fact that 14 games into the season the side in 9th place has managed only 3 wins?
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Bent is bone idle
Covered more ground than any other player vs Swansea. We know what type of player he is but he isnt Bone Idle. Stats show that he is desperate for chances and is running his ass off to do it. I, like all Villa fans, would like him to be more involved in the game... but if he did that AND had his goal scoring record... he would have cost more than £24m. (and wouldn't be with us anyway)
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He is not going to be sacked. He was the owner's personal choice after the total balls up made by the board with their initial blundering.
Even if we are relegated they will keep him on because they will be able to spin him as the manager who is best at getting out of the Championship. As was already said we are between a rock and a hard place. If he keeps us up its job done and he stays. If we go down he becomes the man to get us back up again. Classic Catch 22.
This is spot on and makes you feel a little unwell.
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He is not going to be sacked. He was the owner's personal choice after the total balls up made by the board with their initial blundering.
Even if we are relegated they will keep him on because they will be able to spin him as the manager who is best at getting out of the Championship. As was already said we are between a rock and a hard place. If he keeps us up its job done and he stays. If we go down he becomes the man to get us back up again. Classic Catch 22.
This is spot on and makes you feel a little unwell.
Sickening.
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He is not going to be sacked. He was the owner's personal choice after the total balls up made by the board with their initial blundering.
Even if we are relegated they will keep him on because they will be able to spin him as the manager who is best at getting out of the Championship. As was already said we are between a rock and a hard place. If he keeps us up its job done and he stays. If we go down he becomes the man to get us back up again. Classic Catch 22.
This is spot on and makes you feel a little unwell.
They club would rather stick their heads in the sand and bring it up come May hoping we had a strong finish to the season, rather than admit they have made a massive managerial mistake again.
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He is not going to be sacked. He was the owner's personal choice after the total balls up made by the board with their initial blundering.
Even if we are relegated they will keep him on because they will be able to spin him as the manager who is best at getting out of the Championship. As was already said we are between a rock and a hard place. If he keeps us up its job done and he stays. If we go down he becomes the man to get us back up again. Classic Catch 22.
This is spot on and makes you feel a little unwell.
They club would rather stick their heads in the sand and bring it up come May hoping we had a strong finish to the season, rather than admit they have made a massive managerial mistake again.
What's frustrating with the board is that they actually made a very good appointment with Houllier. He was a breath of fresh air compared to MON, but he had so much bad luck it was untrue. No pre-season, biggest injury crysis, deadwood throwing their toys out of the pram and causing a scene who remain in the fucking squad still, fans didn't give him a chance despite all his honours/league record and of course his health. The board also made the correct choice of backing him all the way or otherwise we may have gotten relegated.
But then they made a massive mistake sacking him. There was no need to. Gary Mac, his second man did a fantastic job at the end winning back to back wins against Arsenal and Liverpool. He could have carried on working with the team while Houllier could have worked behind the scenes getting rid of those troublemakers and bringing us to the modern football. But no, the board paid compensation to remove him for McLeish who they also they paid compensation. That's when the board became dead to me. What an utter shitstorm of a move. He is a worse version of MON bringing us back us to the dark ages. They shouldn't back him all the way because he is a proven failure with 2 Premier League relegations. I despise the ****** through all bullshit he makes up as well. We'll get relegated under him I'm sure of it. Right now he's doing worse here than he was at Blues last season. How the fuck is that possible? I want the fucker out.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. There was a very clear remit for McLeish and that was to try and avoid relegating the club whilst the board performs a series of slash and burn on the squad. I don't think the board care one iota about how we as fans feel. They know that enough of us will turn up every week to watch this turgid rubbish, because we are errrr fans. Those that desert the club in droves have already been financially accounted for.
Before this season is out we will be playing to home gates of around 27-28,000 and should we get relegated I will bet the shirt on my back that McLeish will still be kept on in order to secure an ugly but effective return to the Premiership.
The only positive in this situation right now is that relegation or not, come the end of this season we will get rid of a lot of the non-performing useless wastes of oxygen that have partly contributed to our rapid decline. So let's all thank the board for their wonderful business model whilst we quickly look up the location of the new Brighton ground on Google Maps. Oh yeah and close this thread as McLeish departure is as likely as aliens landing in the serpentine car park.
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He won't be sacked and we won't be relegated.
Other than when we wrongly had to play with 10 men for an hour we've only lost to top 4 clubs, we look a different proposition against everyone else - perhaps because the players aren't overawed. I don't see us suddenly starting to struggle against the mid table teams so I I think we'll be comfortably mid table.
That probably won't be enough for many but that's the way the club is currently operating.
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He won't be sacked and we won't be relegated.
Other than when we wrongly had to play with 10 men for an hour we've only lost to top 4 clubs, we look a different proposition against everyone else - perhaps because the players aren't overawed. I don't see us suddenly starting to struggle against the mid table teams so I I think we'll be comfortably mid table.
That probably won't be enough for many but that's the way the club is currently operating.
I don't think we'll go down either. But, for me anyway, the football we're playing is very very difficult to enjoy or even support. Chris, do you think we're going to improve under AM? I must admitI'm starting to doubt it. Meek surrender is unacceptable for a club the size of Villa.
McLeish seems visibly perplexed on the touchline so what's going on? Is he not getting his message across? If so, what on earth is the message? Are our players so utterly poor that week after week they are just not able to understand the plan?
Who might replace him is a very tricky one indeed. Hughes I suppose.
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Rigadon, we're a different team when we're playing Norwich or Sunderland to when we play Manu or Man City. I guess it's down to confidence and although the manager and coaches can help in the end it is a personal thing.
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Would we lose face by sacking McLeish? We could gain face by going for a top manager and signalling that the good times are on the way back and that the ambition is still there.
Remember Spurs after sacking Jol and Ramos? They were terrible, got Harry in and the rest is history.
Why not us?
*runs for shelter*
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Randy would look ridiculous sacking McLeish now after sticking his fingers up at the fans by appointing him in the first place, any road the system and board personnel that decided he'd be the best man for the job is still in place.
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Randy is a total numpty who appears hell bent on driving his investment into the ground to prove a point. McDuff and Turder both need to go now while the is still a club. As a wise man once said: 'there used to be a football club there...'
FFS SAKES BOTH GO!!!
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Confidence is all important in top level sport, but if a coach / manager can't instil it somehow then that's a big part of their job they aren't fulfilling. If we are going to bob along in mid-table for an unspecified time then we need a coach who can get the most out of dwindling player resources or mid-table might turn into bottom of the table.
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Ryan Giggs, Jamie Carragher or Ole gunne Sol????
The club needs a total change of direction a young exciting manager who plays good attacking football and can attract top quality players. I think somebody like the three mentioned would do that.
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The problem is though Chris, is the difference when we're playing the lesser teams is still only resulting in draws. Although we're not showing as much cowardess as when we play the top 5 teams, we're still playing in a counter productive, negative way.
I h ate to say it but you only have to look at Newcastle to see it doesn't have to be that way. They had a real go at Chelsea yesterday, were positive throughout, same against United at Old Trafford and they got a point and the same against Spurs. Then when they play the lesser teams they finish them off. Do they have a better squad than us? Do they have a chairman throwing money at the manager? Did they have to shift their better players? But still somehow they are being set up to play positive attacking football, now I'm not saying Pardew is the Messiah, but he'a doing a great job at the moment.
McLeish in my opinion, is really doing our players a disservice with his negativity and set up, he's basically saying I don't think you have the attacking capability to take the game to these teams. Yesterday the players were looking to the sidelines asking what they needed to do and he stood there looking gormless, opened mouthed with no answers.
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Is it too soon for "Mcleish Out" banners? The only way he is going to leave is by us fans sticking together. I do worry that Randy and Co will sit by and watch us get relegated. Which I really believe we will. It's going to be down to us fans to force Mcleish out
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David Moyes
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He wont be sacked.
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Anyone but Mcleish. How about Hoddle?
One way of getting rid of Mcleish, and it's a controversial option that wont be liked by many. STOP GOING WHILE HE'S IN CHARGE! Do not enter the stadium. Protest outside the ground. I know I'll get abuse for suggesting this, but Mcleish is the worst appointment ever made by Villa. Even Doug would not have done something this cras or naive. Would the Scousers, Mancs or Gordies ever put up with an appointment like this? Would they hell! Even Bingo Billy Mcneil was not as controversial as this. He was just crap! The appointment of Mcleish had an element of spite involved, almost a fuck you appointment, by an owner who is rapidly losing control of the club! I know loads of people will say you must support the team and turn up no matter what, but by doing that we are allowing Lerner and Mcleish to turn us into a laughing stock.
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When AM came to the club I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt given that we have a half decent squad and hoped that would encourage him to try a different set of tactics to those used at SHA.
When I got to the ground yesterday and heard the team being announced like a lot of people around me I was pleasantly surprised, I really thought he'd picked a team to have ago at Utd. That all evaporated a few minutes after KO when it immediately became apparent that although the lineup had changed the tactics hadn't. It was the same old, same old. The defence and midfield almost holding hands whilst one of the best goal scorers in the league wandered about about 50 yards from the rest of the team (probably wondering why he bothers getting out of bed on matchdays).
Three things stick in my mind from yesterday (1) After another upfield hoof had gone astray, seeing Bent gesturing to Collins about playing it to feet and Collins standing in the centre circle holding his arms out as if to say 'what else can I do'? that sort of body language from a senior player is inexcusable. (2) During the break for the Hernandez injury seeing the players go to the dug out looking as if they wanted fresh instructions and obviously not getting them. (A friend who was sitting just behind the dug out said that to him it looked like there was a bit of a row going on between some of the players and the coaching staff).
(3)Seeing Bent wandering out wide to receive the ball and trying to hold it until the midfield were in position so he could give it to them and then running as fast as he could to try to get to where he is most effective, in amongst their defence causing havoc.
We have two of the best forwards in the country who's talents are being are being totally wasted, to my eye, sad to say but even Gabby's head seemed to drop as the game went on, those two must be feeling really frustrated with the tactics.
My patience with AM has now evaporated, but he won't be sacked, for all the reasons already stated in this thread.
If he did go, all I know is we need a manager who sets his teams up to play attacking football, Adkins,Poyet, Lambert, I'm really not sure who I'd be happy with at the moment.
One thing I wont be doing is going to VP and screaming for the managers head during games, the players confidence appears to be so low that we the fans shouldn't do anything that makes it worse.
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I am firmly convinced that the fact of having three clowns in defence (Clownne, Clownlins and Clowhutton) doesn't help, but I agree with those who think that the main reason for our negative football are the AML's defensive tactics.
At this regard, last season my two favourites for the after-Houllier were Paul Lambert or Gianfranco Zola.
Being Lambert not available at the moment, I would go with Zola, great player and great man, that used to play football the way it has to be played, and that surely - even as a manager - would try and play an entertaining, flowing, attacking football.
Surely with Zola the likes of Clarke, Albrighton, Gardner and Bannan would find place in the starting XI, whereas players that are not capable to find a passage eben by mistake would be out.
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I still remeber those words ' Imagine what Mcleish could do If he was backed with money '
Hes here for a while , its becoming a nightmare .
My GF said 'do you want Villa tickets for Xmas ' I looked at her and said ' Save your money , get some more Lego for the boy'
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Steve Kean.
SAF wouldn't hesitate to recommend would he ??
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I'd be happy with Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street if it meant AM was gone...
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After his comments yesterday about being behind the revival last season, I think we should give it to Dunne with Warnock and Collins as coaches. Even if we're still abysmal, at least Dunne won't be able to blame anyone else for how shit we are
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I'd seriously consider Kevin MacDonald. If we're really not now looking to invest sufficiently to challenge for top six/CL, I'd strip things back and bring in a coach like him who will put together a footballing side, bring out the best in our younger players. I can stomach bobbling about in mid-table for a season or two if there is at the promise of moving in the right direction in the longer term.
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Chris Hughton
**runs off**
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What about Sid? Knows the club inside out, knows the players inside out, cheap internal promotion option without the fans getting on his back (because it is Sid), certainly has footballing ideals close to his heart. Hardly ideal, but the what we have now is much much worse.
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Monty - the defence are being forced to hoof it due to the weak midfield.
Risso - I am worried about Lerner's ownership of the club. However, what can we do
about it? I think he should go.
How? On many occasions Herd and Bannan would run back to offer support, only for the ball to to go back to the keeper and long to, frankly, the opposition. I will not have it that we are doing what is pragmatic. We are doing what is stupid.
The problem with that midfield, for all their chasing about and effort, is they had no leadership and were incapable of putting three passes together. Time and time again they lost possession and did not look comfortable on the ball. We need some inspiration in there.
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What about Sid? Knows the club inside out, knows the players inside out, cheap internal promotion option without the fans getting on his back (because it is Sid), certainly has footballing ideals close to his heart. Hardly ideal, but the what we have now is much much worse.
I would take that, or even Kevin Mac, because I fear the alternative is that the chairman will give McLeish 2 or 3 years, regardless of what happens.
It's like sitting watching a car crash unfold at the moment, and pretty much everyone knows it.
I wrote something in the first fanzine along the lines of what to do to get us on his side, and the biggest no-no I feared he'd do was play the kind of football he played at Small Heath, but that is exactly what he is doing.
Five points from the last seven games is truly horrific form.
John Barnes said on the ESPN commentary yesterday:
You can play that kind of football at Birmingham, but not at a club like Aston Villa
and I don't think it is some delusion of grandeur to say he is right on that.
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It's like watching someone you love slowly dying of old age. It's the numbing inevitability of the whole thing.
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Trouble is if he wanted to play a more passing game he's got no authority. If he dropped say collins or asked them not to boot it upfield aimlessly they'd be in revolt like last season. Dunne was already mouthing off at him yesterday. When you got a squad that out of control and on as rocky ground as AM there's not much he can do.
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Chris Hughton
**runs off**
Keep running.
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It would'nt surprise me in the slightest if Bent has asked his agent to put out a few feelers for a new club. We've paid £24m for a him and we're giving him no service whatsoever. If Dunne's fed up, then Benty definatley will be.
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Are we fickle yet?
;-)
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yep, If i was Bent i'd ask for a transfer. Defintely not what was in the brochure
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I'd love either Ian Taylor or Martin Laursen, I know the argument will be that they've got no experience but my counter argument is our last two managers have had 60 odd years experience between them and were/are useless, we'd certainly have fight and spirit with either of the above two.
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Someone foreign who can spot and attract young talent from abroad. Appointing the likes of Taylor or Laursen wouldn't do that and would also put Sid's nose (further) out of joint.
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Hughes would be good for us i think,but lets face it Mcleish aint going anyhwere
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The absolute insistence on Premier League experience makes no sense and has hindered us badly. Especially since it doesn't have to be successful experience as Mcleish proves.
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The absolute insistence on Premier League experience makes no sense and has hindered us badly. Especially since it doesn't have to be successful experience as Mcleish proves.
Agree. Virtually all the most succesful managers of the last twenty years... Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho, Benitez, Houllier, Mancini... had no experience of the English top flight prior to taking over at the clubs where they had/are having success.
Any experts on foreign football got any recommendations as to what continental coach we could get?
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When we were looking for a new manager before the current one signed I thought of Owen Coyle or Martinez, so its not easy getting the right one but it seems a lot easier to get the wrong one.
This one is worse than Dr Jo and Billy McNeill.
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Gus Poyet. It's who I wanted before McLeish was forced upon us.
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Chris Hughton
**runs off**
Keep running.
Might be made redundant in new year to save them money.....
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Need someone with authority. AM is too nice a bloke with not enough respect. Some hard bastard to finish the job GH started.
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We need someone who is not in the stone ages. Successful football now is moving towards are passing game and it's better to watch, we need to do that.
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its just not his style of football though. Its resembling the Turner/McNeil years with comfortable players content to pick up the money for piss-poor performances. The whole place smells of decline. We need a GT figure in there to show the crap the door and bring in younger hungrier players
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I think we need young blood about the place, god knows who though.
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its just not his style of football though. Its resembling the Truner/McNeil years with comfortable players content to pick up the money for piss-poor performances. The whole place smells of decline. We need a GT figure in there to show the crap the door and bring in younger hungrier players
Spot on Greg.
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I don't see why people think McLeish hasn't been backed. He has been backed.
Given - 3.5m
N'Zogbia - 9.5m
Hutton - 4m
That's a total of 17m he has spent already. And he has already wasted 13.5m. Just because he hasn't recieved all the money and spent it all on one go in 1 summer doesn't mean he hasn't been backed. Not being backed means zilch. Zero. Sort of like Padrew who is doing a fantastic job at the moment making Newcastle play free flowing football with belief despite alot of their best players (more so than we have). They lost Carroll in Jan so they him with Ba on the free who is doing a much better job. They also lost two of their best midfielders Nolan and Barton. They're really struggling in that department aren't they? They even lost their left back. We have some of their old players in our squad right now!
Who the hell wants to see this manager backed even further? It'll just become another MON situation in regards to pissing money up the wall
He had a reasonable net spend at Birmingham in comparison to clubs like Wigan. Wigan managed to stay up playing positive football where as McLeish sent them down losing negative football.
We're heading the same way. If we fail to pick up just 1 win this month (which is most certain considering we can't win away and we've still got to play top 6 teams at home) we'll be sitting 15th or lower. And I wanna see the people who don't think we're in a relegation battle have to say about it then.
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I'd have any other of the current Premiership managers other than Steve Keen or Mick McCarthy.
Realistically, Paul Lambert was my choice of the "non-glamour" managers before we appointed McLeish.
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I'd like to see a more european set up:
- Appoint Graham Taylor to the Board
- Appoint Gareth Southgate as Club Manager responsible for expanding youth set up, establishing a scouting network, improving facilities and communicating to fans/media on non first team affairs
- Appoint a young first team coach who is good at tactics and motivation - Poyet, Solskjear, Laursen (assuming he has his badges)
I prefer this set up because every time the First Team Coach changes there does not need to be a whole new philosophy introduced allowing some continuity. Furthermore the roles and responsibilities are divided up better than in the current set up where I cannot see how one bloke can manage the whole structure.
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The actions of the board over the past 18 months have been to scale back so inevitably that's going to mean us dropping down the table. We've sold 3 top class players and not replaced them with anything like the same quality. We're a make do and mend sort of a club at the moment.
I can see why people would argue against giving him money to spend but Lerner picked him so the very least he can do is to give him the opportunity to do the job properly.
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Paul Lambert, the ideal choice IMO.
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I find myself in the surreal position of wishing Small Heath HADN'T got relegated last season...
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We had all this in the summer and Randy couldn't attract anyone better. What makes you think we now we're part way through a season? It aint going to happen.
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Brian Little with JG as number 2! That team could pass a ball.
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I find myself in the surreal position of wishing Small Heath HADN'T got relegated last season...
I know what you mean . I cant believe running round the room , celebrating and laughing when they went down would actually be our downfall.
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I find myself in the surreal position of wishing Small Heath HADN'T got relegated last season...
I know what you mean . I cant believe running round the room , celebrating and laughing when they went down would actually be our downfall.
I know what you mean. We were at VP that day, for the Liverpool game, and the atmosphere was unbelievable.
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Compass I know blose and baggies fans that hate us less. Give it up now your boring
It won't happen, we should really give him more time and hope he gets rid of the crap we have in the squad.
I'd love Paul Lambert though
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why the hysteria? we are in the top half of the league. We've sold our best players for two consecutive seasons, what can we expect.
Are we really much worse off than this time last year in terms of points and league position?
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why the hysteria? we are in the top half of the league. We've sold our best players for two consecutive seasons, what can we expect.
Are we really much worse off than this time last year in terms of points and league position?
We'll see come January. The point is about the performances not the league position though. The league position massively masks a very serious problem at the club.
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but league position is measured by points, isn't it?
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Right but our league position is more an indictment of the league, we've won 3 games all season. We are very very poor and come January we will be a lot lower. As I said it's the performances that are more of an issue, or do you want to watch Villa playing like they have been?
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come January, we'll be a lot lower - that's the future, though.
Last season, people said that because of our last few games, we'd be down, but we weren't, we finished in the top half.
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How about the performances though? and the embarrassing lack of ambition?
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why do you want me to find something to be miserable about??!!!!!!!!!!!
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Ok that's fine if you're happy what was served up yesterday. It's just in my opinion dreadful.
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Bielsa who is now Bilbao, is all attack attack attack. I'm not sure it'd work but we'd be interesting to watch.
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Please Randy do the right thing for the future of the club.
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why do you want me to find something to be miserable about??!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously are you happy watching the Villa right now? Fair play if you are but surely you expect something a bit more special from the team? To be the players at Mcleish's disposal should be playing better. But Mcleish is stiffling them with his tactics and set up. I expected it to be bad. But not this bad
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why the hysteria? we are in the top half of the league. We've sold our best players for two consecutive seasons, what can we expect.
Are we really much worse off than this time last year in terms of points and league position?
Someone told me this time last season small heath had 18 points. We have 16.
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As I just posted on another thread.
2010 Birmingham City PL 14 W3 D7 L4 GF 15 GA 17 GD -2 Pts 16
2011 Aston Villa PL 14 W3 D7 L4 GF 16 GA 18 GD -2 Pts 16
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I am firmly in the Mcleish OUT camp now.
There is nothing positive about Mcleish.
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I am firmly in the Mcleish OUT camp now.
There is nothing positive about Mcleish.
Good.
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The actions of the board over the past 18 months have been to scale back so inevitably that's going to mean us dropping down the table. We've sold 3 top class players and not replaced them with anything like the same quality. We're a make do and mend sort of a club at the moment.
I can see why people would argue against giving him money to spend but Lerner picked him so the very least he can do is to give him the opportunity to do the job properly.
Not sure I agree, Chris. It's harsh, but if we're not going to trust him with the little money we seem to have these days and he doesn't seem to be making more of the players he has then I can't see the point in keeping him on at all.
You're bang on about losing a couple of genuinely good players though. It's hurt us badly and you can't blame the fact that N'Zogbia (what the fcuk is going on there?!) and Albrighton have failed to deliver anything like their best form on McLeish. He must be privately seething about it in fact.
The misty eyed reminiscing about Gerard Houllier's team is a bit much for me. We were just as shite at times last season but he had an extra couple of match winners supplying Bent in Young / Downing. I think we'd have struggled badly without those two last season.
He hasn't lived up the billing of sorting our defence out. Aside from Given he's bought badly (or has been unlucky which ever way you look at it) and he doesn't seem to be able to direct the players we have in any coherent way. This team looks like it's already given up on him too and there is no way back from there, especially when the fans turn too.
Since we don't seem to be able to afford half a new team, I think Lerner's only real choice, harsh though it is on a nice guy, is to get rid and stop the rot.
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why do you want me to find something to be miserable about??!!!!!!!!!!!
I'd love to be able to find something to be positive about! The point is that it's not just the poor results or shocking coaching, it's the fact that the manager has clearly sent teams out expecting to lose and can only plan to minimise the damage. It's been appalling to see Villa teams take to the pitch already beaten.
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End of season, bottom 3, Wigan, Blackburn, Aston Villa. We are playing Small Heath football, even when we field attacking players we defend/stay back/lack inspiration/look tired/ look disinterested/ HAVE NO BLOODY IDEA!!!!
Awful appointment, awful season, deadly Doug would be in ''Clear your desk'' mode.
The stats showing same as Small heath after 14 games are frankly scary.
We look doomed!!!!!!!!
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I think people are wide of the mark with relegation. People seem quick to jump to hyperbole, which is a pity, as there is more than enough to actually complain about.
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Desperately worried seeing those stats. He has to go. He wont...but he has to.
Lambert
Poyet
Solskjaer
Adkins
In that order. Get one in. Please.
:(
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Desperately worried seeing those stats. He has to go. He wont...but he has to.
Lambert
Poyet
Solskjaer
Adkins
In that order. Get one in. Please.
:(
And we had a relatively easy start
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I think people are wide of the mark with relegation. People seem quick to jump to hyperbole, which is a pity, as there is more than enough to actually complain about.
Yep, the only teams to embarrass us are the current top 3.
We're disjointed, in my opinion, because we still haven't got the midfield sorted. We've got the strikers if we give them the service and the defence is adequate but can't get the middle of the pitch sorted and until we do we're going to continue to see disjointed performances. I thought after the Norwich game we were starting to get it right but since then it's been back to the drawing board.
When I heard the team in the pub yesterday I was genuinely optimistic, he had picked the type of line up we all wanted to see but they didn't do themselves justice. Everyone is pointing the finger at the manager but I think the players have to take responsibility for their own performances.
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I think the job needs someone who would gain the respect of the players having played at the very highest level. Somebody who today's modern players looked up to growing up as kids.
Not sure who I would go for, but Solskjaer could be a good shout.
Randy might even get another letter from SAF?
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These are a few tweets from Zonal Marking who is a bit of a football obsessive who studies the game:
"Aston Villa now have second worst possession figure in the league. 41.7%, 0.3% ahead of Stoke"
"Also second worst shots, and second worst shots on target (both also behind Stoke)"
"Villa are in a false position. Easy fixtures so far. Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal before end of 2011. They're awful."
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What about Sid? Knows the club inside out, knows the players inside out, cheap internal promotion option without the fans getting on his back (because it is Sid), certainly has footballing ideals close to his heart. Hardly ideal, but the what we have now is much much worse.
Speaking to mutual friends a while back, I was told that Sid wouldn't want the job and all the pressure that goes with it. A shame, as he would have been my choice too.
Someone foreign who can spot and attract young talent from abroad. Appointing the likes of Taylor or Laursen wouldn't do that and would also put Sid's nose (further) out of joint.
The Dortmund manager who won them the Championship and CL qualification after years in the wilderness came from lowly Mainz, so there are managers there who seem capable of making the step up. Different conditions, I know. (Not suggesting he'd be mad enough to leave Dortmund for us, BTW).
Ralf Rangnick was a name that was mentioned a few times post MON walkout, but after a decent stint at Hoffenheim, he quit Schalke this September due to stress.
In the past, I've suggested Michael Laudrup -who looked like he had promise based on his success at Brondby and Getafe. But his last two appointments (Spartak Moscow and Mallorca) have been less than great. Could he honestly be any worse than McLeish though? And if he wanted a sidekick who knew the club inside out, there is a certain Danish CB who might be only too happy to take that call...
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I'm at a loss to explain why we're so bad. Yes, McLeish is a poor manager, but while his Blues team were playing dull and defensive anti-football, it didn't look as disjointed and hapless as our team. I'm starting to wonder if Alex McLeish actually tries to make us play more positive, but the fact is that neither he or the players know how to do it, and the result is performances like the one yesterday. My speculation is partly based on his touchline antics and Dunne's obvious frustration. Maybe they're over-reaching.
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Doesn't this (http://www.sport.co.uk/news/Football/8688/Van_Basten_praises_ONeills_Villa_ahead_of_Ajax_clash.aspx) seem like a lifetime ago now?
Van Basten praises O'Neill's Villa ahead of Ajax clash
Author: Andrew Allen
Posted on:23 October 2008 - 3:59 PM
Ajax manager Marco Van Basten has paid tribute to Aston Villa ahead of the UEFA Cup group match between the pair on Thursday. The former World Player of the Year knows his young Ajax side face a stern test in Thursday's Group E opener at Villa Park. Van Basten told Aston Villa TV: "We have a lot of respect for a team like Aston Villa. They are a big club with a big name and a lot of history. It is a special game for the Ajax supporters.
Van Basten added: "We want to make small steps to re-establish ourselves in Europe. It won't be easy, especially against teams like Villa."
Nice words. I wonder what he's up to now.
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I'm at a loss to explain why we're so bad. Yes, McLeish is a poor manager, but while his Blues team were playing dull and defensive anti-football, it didn't look as disjointed and hapless as our team. I'm starting to wonder if Alex McLeish actually tries to make us play more positive, but the fact is that neither he or the players know how to do it, and the result is performances like the one yesterday. My speculation is partly based on his touchline antics and Dunne's obvious frustration. Maybe they're over-reaching.
No, I am pretty sure he is happy with the style of football we are playing.
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mark hughes or paul lambert please.
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Sanchez Flores.
Waiting in the wings for the job, gone on record saying he wants it, loads of European experience, managed some very credible top European sides, Valencia, Benfica, Ath Madrid.
Just be the very fact that he said he would jump at the opportunity to manage Villa says to me get him, rather than the old merry-go-round of out of work British managers.
Lets break the mould and go for it.
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We need someone with a bit of umpff. I'd look at someone like Nigel Adkins.
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Sanchez Flores.
Waiting in the wings for the job, gone on record saying he wants it
He took over a club in Dubai last month.
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Please Randy do the right thing for the future of the club.
Since May 2010 has he managed to do that?
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He's done plenty of good things for our club.
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Rafa Benitez is rumoured to be on his way to PSG after angling for a job at PL side for almost a year. (He has rejected Blackburn (when they appointed Kean) and WBA (when they appointed Hodgson) though.)
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Rafa Benitez is rumoured to be on his way to PSG after angling for a job at PL side for almost a year. (He has rejected Blackburn (when they appointed Kean) and WBA (when they appointed Hodgson) though.)
And us when we didnt give him £60m
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Doesn't this (http://www.sport.co.uk/news/Football/8688/Van_Basten_praises_ONeills_Villa_ahead_of_Ajax_clash.aspx) seem like a lifetime ago now?
Van Basten praises O'Neill's Villa ahead of Ajax clash
Author: Andrew Allen
Posted on:23 October 2008 - 3:59 PM
Ajax manager Marco Van Basten has paid tribute to Aston Villa ahead of the UEFA Cup group match between the pair on Thursday. The former World Player of the Year knows his young Ajax side face a stern test in Thursday's Group E opener at Villa Park. Van Basten told Aston Villa TV: "We have a lot of respect for a team like Aston Villa. They are a big club with a big name and a lot of history. It is a special game for the Ajax supporters.
Van Basten added: "We want to make small steps to re-establish ourselves in Europe. It won't be easy, especially against teams like Villa."
Nice words. I wonder what he's up to now.
Reading that and seeing the state we're in now is just heartbreaking.
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He's done plenty of good things for our club.
The problem is, they were an increasingly long amount of time ago, and since then, he's been nothing short of a disaster.
It isn't all about throwing money at the club. There's also real leadership. We have had none of that.
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I would have kept Mcallister and Sid Cowans as assistant, the last few games of last season the team were playing well with no fear. Its as if he said just go out there and play how you want - full of confidence.
Maybe not a big name manager but won it all as a player!
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He's still got a lot of credit in the bank with me. He has my respect, he's done a lot of good for this club and i don't think any of us should forget that. If he feels we need to cut back financially and get the wage bill to a manageable level, then that's fine as well. He's got it horribly wrong with Mcleish though. I'm sure he could have found a manager who fitted in with what he wanted and one who would have got us playing a better standard of football. Small Heath managed it.
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An interview with Mat Kendrick in tomorrows Brum Mail... only quote given so far is
'Im not a Quitter'
Y'know... cause it doesn't count if you dont do it in person
He quit Blues by email for those with short memories
Should be interesting..
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I'd love Hiddink but that will never happen, so Lambert or Hughes for me.
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An interview with Mat Kendrick in tomorrows Brum Mail... only quote given so far is
'Im not a Quitter'
Y'know... cause it doesn't count if you dont do it in person
He quit Blues by email for those with short memories
Should be interesting..
Stupid thing to say really considering Steve Bruce said the same recently (who is a quitter as well) before getting the boot. What it really tells us is that he's going to stick it out regardless of what happens at the club. He would still get his undeserved payout no matter what happens to him.
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I think we can safely say AM won't quit. As for the other method of departure, watch this space. This time next month and either we'll be looking back on some encouraging results over christmas or it will be the carcrash many of us predicted.
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He's still got a lot of credit in the bank with me. He has my respect, he's done a lot of good for this club and i don't think any of us should forget that. If he feels we need to cut back financially and get the wage bill to a manageable level, then that's fine as well. He's got it horribly wrong with Mcleish though. I'm sure he could have found a manager who fitted in with what he wanted and one who would have got us playing a better standard of football. Small Heath managed it.
^^
My take on things too.
Maybe I'm one of the delusional types Chris was referring to, but I honestly look at that squad and think we should be in the shake up for Europe. Not Europe as a bare minimum- with the sums others have spent even that relatively modest goal (as was) has become so much harder.
But if Europe is out of the question, I don't see that we should be going into practically every game handing the initiative to the opposition either. As Iago said yesterday, we are a club founded on the ethic of competition.
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What I find ironic, though is that some of the names being mentioned now, like Hughes, got a really poor reception in the summer. Hughes would have been my choice after Houllier, and I remember being amazed at how so many were against him in the summer. If there had been a surge of support behind him, Lerner might have hired him. As it was, we were anti - Hughes, anti- allardyce, anti- Martinez and we ended up with McLeish. The only person who had general support was Ancelloti!!!!
Also ironic is the fact that everyone was moaning about Houllier had turned one of the best defences into one of the worst, yet now we are not happy because we are playing so defensively. I'm not happy with the current state of affairs...but I don't think we are doomed. Maybe I'm still in the honeymoon period after the Houllier episode!
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I honestly look at that squad and think we should be in the shake up for Europe.
I honestly look at the squad and think how the did the club manage to conspire to get us in this mess with an average at best squad and players who have lost their way as professional footballers...all of whom are more than happy to take home their ridiculous salaries. If we're being honest, theres a big difference between optimism and reality...the reality is that our squad was in urgent need of strengthening rather than weakening, and we are left with dross which is clearly reflected on the pitch.
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Is that squad drastically inferior to the likes of Fulham, Everton, Newcastle, Sunderland, Stoke and co?
Personally I don't think so. Outside of the clubs who would target Europe as a bare minimum; Spurs, Liverpool et.c ( I've already said that no longer applies to us) I think our squad is at least the equal of- if not better than- most.
Some of those sides have individual players who would easily get into our line up. But man for man I'd rather have our lot.
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Probably about the same as the likes of those clubs, but with a lack of team spirit, leadership, and apparent lack of coaching and management, they could be worse. The fact that our squad is now comparable and on a par to the likes of those teams speaks volumes especially when compared to just a couple of seasons ago.
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On that point I agree- and I think the level of cuts we have seen and the amount good players we've let go has done serious damage to our reputation.
With Barry we perhaps didn't have a choice due to his contract situation. It looked like we asked him for one more season to try to get into the CL and in fairness he got his head down and performed reasonably well (though not as well as his previous season). The Milner deal looked to good to turn down at the time- and the money Citeh can throw at players will turn the heads of most. With Ashley Young's contract situation we were again in a difficult position. It's also possible that we had asked him for one more year in the summer of 2010, when he was strongly linked with Tottenham.
I would have liked to see all those remain, but the one who we should have definitely put our foot down with is Downing. Not because he was so unbelievably talented, but because most sides would struggle with two of their best players lost in he same summer.
Even if the money offered for him was in excess of his true value (always subjective, those kind of arguments) selling him seems to have underlined our status now as some kind of finishing school. If you're a really good player, you can't achieve your goals at Aston Villa. You just move there to make your name and then move on.
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Most of us have called for changes in midfield and Saturday we got it, Bannon who may be a good player in a good side was hopeless in that set up, Bent may have well have stayed home for the last two matches, an England proven goalscorer who is left isolated, again an inditement on Mcleish, young Hird tries hard but needs quality around him. We are a rabble with no leadership on the field and none of it.
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I'd seriously consider Kevin MacDonald. If we're really not now looking to invest sufficiently to challenge for top six/CL, I'd strip things back and bring in a coach like him who will put together a footballing side, bring out the best in our younger players. I can stomach bobbling about in mid-table for a season or two if there is at the promise of moving in the right direction in the longer term.
The problem is, he is our first team coach alongside Sid. Add to that Peter Grant was responsible for the Baggies playing like Brazil under Mowbray, you have to ask how come we have three coaches that understand 'progressive' football yet we play like we do. I can only thing it's a breakdown in communication somewhere down the line, eithat or the players are just doing what the hell they want.
Whoever is next to come in and I'd go for the thinking man's Martin O'Neill - Paul Lambert or Gus Poyet, they'll no doubt want to bring in their own staff, which will be curtains for Sid and KMac.
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I must say Lambert has impressed though these comparisons to MON i can't see, and put me off slightly. I don't really want another Hoof merchant, however good the players he's get to play it are.
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Is that squad drastically inferior to the likes of Fulham, Everton, Newcastle, Sunderland, Stoke and co?
No. It's weaker than the top six and I feel we've been let down in terms of players we've sold and those we've been able to bring in, but we have a stronger squad than all of those teams above, I believe. Everton and Newcastle are stronger in certain areas but we have more strength in depth.
There are many managers who could do a lot more with the current squad - which has remained mostly injury free to date - than McLeish. We certainly won't be challenging for top six but we are under performing; we look embarrassing against the best in the league and pretty mediocre against the average and lower placed sides.
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I'd preplace McLeish with Clyde out of Every Which Way But Loose because he's funnier.
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And don't forget Schteve McClaren is currently unemployed...
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I would really love to know what Randy Lerner is thinking.
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I remember when the manager hunt was on and villa fans grumbled at every name that was mentioned (Hughes, Martinez, Rafa, Mclaren) someone said to me (and I also heard it on the radio - think it was talksport) that you should be careful what you wish for and look what happened? Mcleish was named manager! He will not get the sack for sure. Even if he takes us down. It was the owners decision so he will stick by it unless there is another mass protest for him to be sacked ( i fear that wont make a difference). If, by some miracle, that Eck gets the boot come Jan then I would like to see us go for Mark Hughes (who I have never had a prob with), Rafa Benitez (unfortunately, there talks of him going to PSG), Hiddink (YEAH RIGHT!!!) or maybe even approach Martinez again. Knowing our luck, we could end up with Steve effing Bruce.
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Some Villa fans... personally, I'd have happily accepted the first three names you mentioned. But I agree, McLeish is going nowhere.
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Some Villa fans... personally, I'd have happily accepted the first three names you mentioned. But I agree, McLeish is going nowhere.
Sorry, yes, I did mean to say some villa fans. I thinking my brain was working faster than my typing skills this morning
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Strange isn't it how some fans earlier in the season were getting on the backs of the fans who said McLEISH wasnt the right man for the job I was very vocal in not wanting him now more people are agreeing with us. What a shame this lame excuse for a manager has ruined our famous club. We are going to be bottom four by end of the year and we are going nowhere apart from down. McLeish has to go now .
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I honestly look at that squad and think we should be in the shake up for Europe.
I honestly look at the squad and think how the did the club manage to conspire to get us in this mess with an average at best squad and players who have lost their way as professional footballers...all of whom are more than happy to take home their ridiculous salaries. If we're being honest, theres a big difference between optimism and reality...the reality is that our squad was in urgent need of strengthening rather than weakening, and we are left with dross which is clearly reflected on the pitch.
The reality is that the majority of our players on the pitch on Saturday have played at international level. Their potential is significantly more than what we have seen from them but that also applied to MON's time here too. For the life of me I can't see what is so difficult in organising a team of players of this standard to at least pass the ball and move into space to get it back. We see lesser teams doing it with journeymen players so it seems criminal to me that the talent which we do have is squandered in this way. I agree that if our squad was properly managed we would be in the mix for Europe but as it is I can see us flirting with relegation again in the new year.
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I think the thing about the manager is that whoever it is is secondary to our financial situation right now. We're presently sitting 9th, which, for all the talk about AM's style of play and tactics, is probably about where we should be given our squad. We can only genuinely expect better results with more money, which doesn't seem likely right now. A new manager may get an initial response and improve things, but unless it's a really top man, who wouldn't come unless there WAS money to spend, we'd eventually level back out to where we are now.
So the question Randy is faced with is whether getting us playing a style more people are happy with is worth the expense of a managerial change? Because if you're expecting us to get transformed back into a top 6 side by a new man then forget it.
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If i'm honest with you then I have no probs with villa finishing 8th/9th this season but I would like to see some passion and some entertaining football. I'm pretty sure that a lot of fans could take losing in games if we showed some passion and played decent footy but this clearly isn't happening. Is it the manager's style? probably yes! Yes he picked what on paper looked like an attacking line up (4-3-3) but for what I could make out (and i'm no expert or coach) we were playing more 4-5-1. I mean, Mcleish is known for his boring, defensive long ball football and this clearly showed on saturday. I mean look what happened when we kicked off the 1st half. It was passed to collins who decided that he would hoof it up top to Bent! When are these players going to realise that Bent is not a target man and you can expect him to hold the ball up if it is hoofed up field to him. The likes of Vidic and Rio were always going to win those aerial battles. If Eck wants to deploy that style of footy then I'm sorry, he has to play heskey up top with Bent in a 4-4-2 formation so that Heskey is the target man. People are getting on the back of Bent which I personally feel is unfair. There are different types of strikers and he is the one that needs to be supplied with through balls or even crosses from the byline. I know alot of people will disagree with me on this but its just my opinion.
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I think the thing about the manager is that whoever it is is secondary to our financial situation right now. We're presently sitting 9th, which, for all the talk about AM's style of play and tactics, is probably about where we should be given our squad. We can only genuinely expect better results with more money, which doesn't seem likely right now. A new manager may get an initial response and improve things, but unless it's a really top man, who wouldn't come unless there WAS money to spend, we'd eventually level back out to where we are now.
So the question Randy is faced with is whether getting us playing a style more people are happy with is worth the expense of a managerial change? Because if you're expecting us to get transformed back into a top 6 side by a new man then forget it.
We may be 9th but we head 4 clubs on 16 points by goal difference and are 6 points away from the bottom 3 and 7 points away from 7th.
For all the talk of Wolves being relegation candidates they are only 2 points behind us as after our next 5 games I fully expect us to be in the bottom 5.
Unfortunately AM is going nowhere
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If i'm honest with you then I have no probs with villa finishing 8th/9th this season but I would like to see some passion and some entertaining football. I'm pretty sure that a lot of fans could take losing in games if we showed some passion and played decent footy but this clearly isn't happening. Is it the manager's style? probably yes! Yes he picked what on paper looked like an attacking line up (4-3-3) but for what I could make out (and i'm no expert or coach) we were playing more 4-5-1. I mean, Mcleish is known for his boring, defensive long ball football and this clearly showed on saturday. I mean look what happened when we kicked off the 1st half. It was passed to collins who decided that he would hoof it up top to Bent! When are these players going to realise that Bent is not a target man and you can expect him to hold the ball up if it is hoofed up field to him. The likes of Vidic and Rio were always going to win those aerial battles. If Eck wants to deploy that style of footy then I'm sorry, he has to play heskey up top with Bent in a 4-4-2 formation so that Heskey is the target man. People are getting on the back of Bent which I personally feel is unfair. There are different types of strikers and he is the one that needs to be supplied with through balls or even crosses from the byline. I know alot of people will disagree with me on this but its just my opinion.
Completely agree, Rick. It's not just that the football is bad, it's that he doesn't even seem to know how to do it properly. If you're going to sit back and hope to break on the counter, then you have to play a system with two strikers. The deep midfielders then have more of an option for the out-ball, and the striker who gets it already has someone in support. Add to that wingers who support quickly and you've got a break on your hands. McLeish, however, just isolates a player who's far from suited to this role then, even though he's probably picked the best side on paper, hoofs the ball over the heads of a talented midfield to the unsuited Bent, who can obviously do nothing about it. It's perplexing.
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It's not just that the football is bad, it's that he doesn't even seem to know how to do it properly.
The thing about McLeish's Scotland and Blues sides, when they were at their best, is that they were very professional looking outfits with all the players working hard and well organised. The typical 'difficult to beat' team. That's what I was expecting, but thus far we haven't really seen that.
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Because if you're expecting us to get transformed back into a top 6 side by a new man then forget it.
I agree, John. Top six has long gone, unless there's a radical change on the strategy and investment front.
As we stand now, I simply see us treading water, playing stifling football, which is already establishing us as one of the most negative teams in the league. We'll lose the one or two top-class players we have this way.
I'd prefer it if we just set our stall out, hired a young (actually not really even young) and progressive manager who really can work with our younger players as well and get us playing decent football. I can live with us being in mid-table for the next couple of years at least if I felt we were moving in the right direction. I just don't think AM has the tools to do this. I see our younger players (well, they're 22, 23 now) in and out of the side, or not used at all, and don't see them or the team being developed as they should.
We still have that over-reliance on a handful of senior players who are not performing, yet seem almost undroppable.
I'd love us have the courage to pick a manager, based not on PL experience but footballing ethos, and go, 'right this is us, this our team for the rest of the season - we'll have ups and downs but bear with us':
Given
Lichaj Cuellar Clark Warnock/Stevens
Gardner Delph
Bannan
Agbonlahor Bent N'Zogbia
Subs from: Guzan, Herd, Dunne, Baker, Stevens, Albrighton, Ireland, Delfouneso, Weimann, Burke, Graham, Lowry
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Is that squad drastically inferior to the likes of Fulham, Everton, Newcastle, Sunderland, Stoke and co?
No, now look at the league table and other than Newcastle who have hugely over performed we're pretty much of a muchness.
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I think he might be sacked if we don't win on Saturday and then lose our next 4 which could well happen.
That would then be a run of 1 win in 12 games.
The problem I have with this though is I'd have very little confidence in Lerner to find a capable alternative, he'd be straight on the phone to Steve Bruce imo!
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The problem I have with this though is I'd have very little confidence in Lerner to find a capable alternative, he'd be straight on the phone to Steve Bruce imo!
totally agree!
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In the summer my first pick was Paul lambert and i haven't changed my mind on that.
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What concerns me is our lack of goals and in general lack of chances created. Fair enough we've only lost against the current Top 3, but we've also failed to score from open play against Fulham, Swansea, Wolves and QPR.
16 goals scored so far and 8 of those against Norwich, Wigan and Blackburn. So 8 goals in the other 11 is worrying. So far Mcleish shows no sign of ringing those changes he's promised, what does Collins have to do to get dropped, when is Gabby going to play up front, there's genuine issues and at the moment he seems to be trotting out the same old lines after every match.
But he won't be sacked.
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I think the manager is scared to ring the changes. I think we need to be playing 4-4-2 with Gabby and Bent leading the line. either that or Bent/Heskey or Gabby/Heskey. I only say Heskey as knowing Ecks style of play, it will be lumped up top all the time and neither Bent or Gabby can do that job.
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Because if you're expecting us to get transformed back into a top 6 side by a new man then forget it.
I agree, John. Top six has long gone, unless there's a radical change on the strategy and investment front.
As we stand now, I simply see us treading water, playing stifling football, which is already establishing us as one of the most negative teams in the league. We'll lose the one or two top-class players we have this way.
I'd prefer it if we just set our stall out, hired a young (actually not really even young) and progressive manager who really can work with our younger players as well and get us playing decent football. I can live with us being in mid-table for the next couple of years at least if I felt we were moving in the right direction. I just don't think AM has the tools to do this. I see our younger players (well, they're 22, 23 now) in and out of the side, or not used at all, and don't see them or the team being developed as they should.
We still have that over-reliance on a handful of senior players who are not performing, yet seem almost undroppable.
I'd love us have the courage to pick a manager, based not on PL experience but footballing ethos, and go, 'right this is us, this our team for the rest of the season - we'll have ups and downs but bear with us':
Given
Lichaj Cuellar Clark Warnock/Stevens
Gardner Delph
Bannan
Agbonlahor Bent N'Zogbia
Subs from: Guzan, Herd, Dunne, Baker, Stevens, Albrighton, Ireland, Delfouneso, Weimann, Burke, Graham, Lowry
Totally agree with Merv
Our youngsters aren't so young any more and what does it say so someone like Clark when he sees Ivanhoe and petrov playing week week out and doing the same old shit?
Blame for our current predicament lies firmly at RL's door.
Fuck me we even paid compo for the tosser
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Lerner put his bollocks on the line to appoint McLeish, therefore there is no way I believe he will sack him. He's in this for the immediate and medium term future, we don't like it, obviously, and things have to change somewhere, but replacing McLeish isn't going to happen.
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Lerner put his bollocks on the line to appoint McLeish, therefore there is no way I believe he will sack him. He's in this for the immediate and medium term future, we don't like it, obviously, and things have to change somewhere, but replacing McLeish isn't going to happen.
I agree with you, but things may change if we ever do get into the position whereby relegation looks like a possibility. I can't see another Darren Bent type signing being sanctioned to save us this year.
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Lerner put his bollocks on the line to appoint McLeish, therefore there is no way I believe he will sack him. He's in this for the immediate and medium term future, we don't like it, obviously, and things have to change somewhere, but replacing McLeish isn't going to happen.
I would bet that like many other multi-millionaires he will not like to be proven wrong and even less be told ‘’I told you so’’ by a bunch of football fans. McLeish is going absolutely nowhere, so we can either like it or lump it..... Harsh I know, but no manner of protests or gnashing of teeth is going to alter this one in the near or worse still medium term future.
The only glimmer of hope is that come next summer we will have a cleanup of dead wood of the likes we have not seen in some time. I am just hoping that once this deadwood is cleared out that the club makes clear their strategy instead of wibbling on with stupid platitudes about chasing European football.
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Lerner put his bollocks on the line to appoint McLeish, therefore there is no way I believe he will sack him. He's in this for the immediate and medium term future, we don't like it, obviously, and things have to change somewhere, but replacing McLeish isn't going to happen.
I agree with you, but things may change if we ever do get into the position whereby relegation looks like a possibility. I can't see another Darren Bent type signing being sanctioned to save us this year.
Last year we had an identifiable problem scoring goals.
This year, the problems seem to be a bit wider than that. A squad who look like they don't give a shit, and a manager who is doing what he likes to do.
I don't think there's a realistic signing we could make to turn that around.
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I dont think Randy would sack him even if we went down!!
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Lerner put his bollocks on the line to appoint McLeish, therefore there is no way I believe he will sack him. He's in this for the immediate and medium term future, we don't like it, obviously, and things have to change somewhere, but replacing McLeish isn't going to happen.
I would bet that like many other multi-millionaires he will not like to be proven wrong and even less be told ‘’I told you so’’ by a bunch of football fans. McLeish is going absolutely nowhere, so we can either like it or lump it..... Harsh I know, but no manner of protests or gnashing of teeth is going to alter this one in the near or worse still medium term future.
The only glimmer of hope is that come next summer we will have a cleanup of dead wood of the likes we have not seen in some time. I am just hoping that once this deadwood is cleared out that the club makes clear their strategy instead of wibbling on with stupid platitudes about chasing European football.
multi-millionaire's hate losing money a darn sight more than losing face. If we're looking very iffy in January, then any sort of "AM or bust" policy may fly out the window once he looks at what a relegation will do to the balance sheet. Anything is possible in football.
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RL definitely will not sack him as 1) he went out of his way to sign him and paid compensation for him & 2) When results didn't go our way last season and we were flirting with relegation, he stuck by GH despite fans putting up banners saying "Houllier out".
RL didn't listen to the hundreds of fans who took to the hotle end in the summer to protest against his appointment and i'm pretty sure he wont listen to them if they started chanting "mcleish out" in the coming matches. we're doomed and can only hope teams like wigan, blackburn, bolton, Norwich, Sunderland etc keep losing to save us from being relegated.
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Lerner put his bollocks on the line to appoint McLeish, therefore there is no way I believe he will sack him. He's in this for the immediate and medium term future, we don't like it, obviously, and things have to change somewhere, but replacing McLeish isn't going to happen.
I agree with you, but things may change if we ever do get into the position whereby relegation looks like a possibility. I can't see another Darren Bent type signing being sanctioned to save us this year.
Last year we had an identifiable problem scoring goals.
This year, the problems seem to be a bit wider than that. A squad who look like they don't give a shit, and a manager who is doing what he likes to do.
I don't think there's a realistic signing we could make to turn that around.
I think the issue is actually narrower than that. The games where we've shurgged our shoulders, these being Man City, Spurs and Man United, I believe, have created a defeatist attitude and a fear mentality that has seeped into the very fabric of the squad.
Confidence is shot. It took us an hour to realise that Swansea were a bag of balls and actually have a go at them.
The other issue is that too many players have left without ever being replaced. In three seasons we're missing Young, Barry, Milner and Downing, a midfield that would give most sides outside the top three a bit of a going over.
N'Zogbia really needs to sort himself out too. While its not fair to ask him to do both Young and Downing's job, he can offer far more than he has.
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Lerner put his bollocks on the line to appoint McLeish, therefore there is no way I believe he will sack him. He's in this for the immediate and medium term future, we don't like it, obviously, and things have to change somewhere, but replacing McLeish isn't going to happen.
I agree with you, but things may change if we ever do get into the position whereby relegation looks like a possibility. I can't see another Darren Bent type signing being sanctioned to save us this year.
Last year we had an identifiable problem scoring goals.
This year, the problems seem to be a bit wider than that. A squad who look like they don't give a shit, and a manager who is doing what he likes to do.
I don't think there's a realistic signing we could make to turn that around.
Spot on Paulie. Last year we had pace and width but no-one to put the chances away. We had Young on one side, Downing on the other and the missing link was obvious. This year we're not creating the chances. So identifying a top winger to take players on and feed the ball to DB is one thing, and even if we could identify that player getting him to come to VP under McLeish is another. We're stuck with what we've got and I'm worried (unless Enda Stephens turns out to be a flying wing back of course)
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This year we're not creating the chances. So identifying a top winger to take players on and feed the ball to DB is one thing, and even if we could identify that player getting him to come to VP under McLeish is another. We're stuck with what we've got and I'm worried (unless Enda Stephens turns out to be a flying wing back of course)
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Problem you identified there is that we need two wingers. Don't know what is happening with N'Zogbia, and Albrighton now looks like his confidence is shot to pieces. Can't see Stephens coming in as a new boy in a poor team, stepping up to the pace of the EPL and hitting the ground running.
By the way, Jenas? That Harry Redknapp is a canny old so and so.
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By the way, Jenas? That Harry Redknapp is a canny old so and so.
I've read that he may be out for the rest of the season.Surely he will return to Spurs if this is the case ?
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By the way, Jenas? That Harry Redknapp is a canny old so and so.
Regarding Jenas, if he is out for the rest of the season that means he will be back at spurs and they will have to start paying hi wages again (assuming we are coughing up for all of it) so not really a canny old so and so should he be returning to the spuds.
I say Eck calls back JMII and play him in the Jenas role. If Albrighton's confidence is shot then theres only one thing we can do, loan him out to a championship to play more games to help gain that confidence back. Clearly, he wont be getting back while he is either sitting on the bench or playing with a bunch of clueless, long ball, cant string 5 passes togther, losers!
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Lerner put his bollocks on the line to appoint McLeish, therefore there is no way I believe he will sack him. He's in this for the immediate and medium term future, we don't like it, obviously, and things have to change somewhere, but replacing McLeish isn't going to happen.
Yeah, but how will Lerner look when we're relegated? I predict AM will be gone by the first week in January 2012. Our league position will be bottom-six after all these tough games in December. Lerner will panic that his asset will lose massive value at the thought of the drop. He'll appoint a new Manager and give him a fair budget to work with to ensure survival.
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precisely. no chairman is going to cut us to the bone like Lerner has over the past 18months and then watch all the savings thrown away by a relegation
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Lerner put his bollocks on the line to appoint McLeish, therefore there is no way I believe he will sack him. He's in this for the immediate and medium term future, we don't like it, obviously, and things have to change somewhere, but replacing McLeish isn't going to happen.
Yeah, but how will Lerner look when we're relegated? I predict AM will be gone by the first week in January 2012. Our league position will be bottom-six after all these tough games in December. Lerner will panic that his asset will lose massive value at the thought of the drop. He'll appoint a new Manager and give him a fair budget to work with to ensure survival.
I really cant see that happening especially first week of Jan. He will stick by Eck and give him a couple of mil to sign a player or sanction some loan signings.
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Lerner put his bollocks on the line to appoint McLeish, therefore there is no way I believe he will sack him. He's in this for the immediate and medium term future, we don't like it, obviously, and things have to change somewhere, but replacing McLeish isn't going to happen.
Yeah, but how will Lerner look when we're relegated? I predict AM will be gone by the first week in January 2012. Our league position will be bottom-six after all these tough games in December. Lerner will panic that his asset will lose massive value at the thought of the drop. He'll appoint a new Manager and give him a fair budget to work with to ensure survival.
If by some miracle RL did sack AM in the new year then we'll have to put faith in him making the next appointment on what he thinks is 'right' for the club. And by the time he finds his 'right' man the transfer window will be shut. Have you seen how slow he is at hiring a manager, nevermind the fact he is a bad reputation of appointments anyway? You can actually see him hiring Steve Bruce next because that's how much of a joke he is at making appointments.
We're in a lose-lose situation with Randy. Nothing will be resolved completely until he is out of this club. Just ask the Browns fan what they think of him. Only difference is they don't have to suffer relegation.
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if there's nowt to be done and its already hopeless then why do you want AM out Compass? Surely it doesn't matter
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precisely. no chairman is going to cut us to the bone like Lerner has over the past 18months and then watch all the savings thrown away by a relegation
That same argument could be applied to Houllier 12 months ago, when results were actually worse and we had to improve to get to 9th. Yet rather than sack him for fear of relegation, Randy backed him in the market to buy Darren Bent.
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I would have prefered it if Sid Cowans was in charge for the remaining of season. But I read something recently about he wouldn't want the job due to the pressure. The board have proper fucked us up with this appointment regardless.
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precisely. no chairman is going to cut us to the bone like Lerner has over the past 18months and then watch all the savings thrown away by a relegation
That same argument could be applied to Houllier 12 months ago, when results were actually worse and we had to improve to get to 9th. Yet rather than sack him for fear of relegation, Randy backed him in the market to buy Darren Bent.
True but Mcleish had a preseason to try and get his side in order, Houllier came in much later. Whilst Mcleish has a weaker squad, you'd expect him to have a much better handle on things by now.
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precisely. no chairman is going to cut us to the bone like Lerner has over the past 18months and then watch all the savings thrown away by a relegation
That same argument could be applied to Houllier 12 months ago, when results were actually worse and we had to improve to get to 9th. Yet rather than sack him for fear of relegation, Randy backed him in the market to buy Darren Bent.
True but Mcleish had a preseason to try and get his side in order, Houllier came in much later. Whilst Mcleish has a weaker squad, you'd expect him to have a much better handle on things by now.
We had one more point this time last year although our league position was lower
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precisely. no chairman is going to cut us to the bone like Lerner has over the past 18months and then watch all the savings thrown away by a relegation
That same argument could be applied to Houllier 12 months ago, when results were actually worse and we had to improve to get to 9th. Yet rather than sack him for fear of relegation, Randy backed him in the market to buy Darren Bent.
But the difference is Houllier had no pre-season, had no summer window, was lumbered with alot of injuries, strikers were goal shy and had a good record in the Premier League. The board were right to back and stick with him and give him the money for Bent.
They can't do the same with McLeish. He has had a pre-season, had a summer window where he has already spent 17m (if I was Randy I'll be proper pissed off my 9.5m went down the drain), no where near the amount of injuries and isn't good enough for relegation battles.
If Randy sticks with AM all the way we're finished as an established PL club. I hope just this once, I'm actually clinging on the hope here, that Randy will use one of his brain cells and do what is right for the sake of this club.
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precisely. no chairman is going to cut us to the bone like Lerner has over the past 18months and then watch all the savings thrown away by a relegation
That same argument could be applied to Houllier 12 months ago, when results were actually worse and we had to improve to get to 9th. Yet rather than sack him for fear of relegation, Randy backed him in the market to buy Darren Bent.
True but Mcleish had a preseason to try and get his side in order, Houllier came in much later. Whilst Mcleish has a weaker squad, you'd expect him to have a much better handle on things by now.
To me that pretty much evens things out - Houllier had less time, but better players, AM has had more time with lesser players.
And from a results perspective AM is doing better than Gezza around the same time.
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Houllier, like McLeish's reign was pretty much all horrible. One thing I will say for the bloke was he appeared brave enough to try and change things both in our style of play and getting rid of a few of the more awkward characters*. For that reason the longer Houllier was around the better I think it would have become, under McLeish I just cannot see it.
Randy really has appointed two shite managers.
* I have a hunch that Collins and Dunne do exactly as they please rather than obey any instructions from the manager.
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Dunno. he's still got to January as far as i'm concerned, then events may overtake him anyway. The Manc game hasn't helped my opinion of him, probably more so than spurs really. I can just about take the aim for a draw mentality, the hoofing, and the hospital tackles because at least they are tactics of sorts, but against the mancs the players genuinely didn't seem to know what they were doing. Very much like the turner/McNeil era and that's more worrying.
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precisely. no chairman is going to cut us to the bone like Lerner has over the past 18months and then watch all the savings thrown away by a relegation
That same argument could be applied to Houllier 12 months ago, when results were actually worse and we had to improve to get to 9th. Yet rather than sack him for fear of relegation, Randy backed him in the market to buy Darren Bent.
True but Mcleish had a preseason to try and get his side in order, Houllier came in much later. Whilst Mcleish has a weaker squad, you'd expect him to have a much better handle on things by now.
To me that pretty much evens things out - Houllier had less time, but better players, AM has had more time with lesser players.
And from a results perspective AM is doing better than Gezza around the same time.
Whilst it evens things out in theory, you've forgot to factor in the worse injury crisis imaginable.
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Houllier, like McLeish's reign was pretty much all horrible. One thing I will say for the bloke was he appeared brave enough to try and change things both in our style of play and getting rid of a few of the more awkward characters*. For that reason the longer Houllier was around the better I think it would have become, under McLeish I just cannot see it.
Randy really has appointed two shite managers.
* I have a hunch that Collins and Dunne do exactly as they please rather than obey any instructions from the manager.
I don't think Houllier's reign was near as bad. The two biggest mistakes he made was the Liverpool incident (I wasn't too bothered about that though) and throwing away the FA Cup (that was stupid).
But there was excitement spells, especially when we bought Bent. And that win against Man City was amazing (my favourite match last season) because the whole atmosphere was rocking and every player was defending like their life depended on it.
With AM though there's just nothing. Nothing at all. You can't see what his long term plan (whatever that is) and all we can do is now look over our shoulders. The man is a bullshitter as well. He said he won't play us like Blues because he has better tools to work with, but that's exactly what he is doing. Actually, it's worse. Shambolic appointment throughout.
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precisely. no chairman is going to cut us to the bone like Lerner has over the past 18months and then watch all the savings thrown away by a relegation
That same argument could be applied to Houllier 12 months ago, when results were actually worse and we had to improve to get to 9th. Yet rather than sack him for fear of relegation, Randy backed him in the market to buy Darren Bent.
True but Mcleish had a preseason to try and get his side in order, Houllier came in much later. Whilst Mcleish has a weaker squad, you'd expect him to have a much better handle on things by now.
To me that pretty much evens things out - Houllier had less time, but better players, AM has had more time with lesser players.
And from a results perspective AM is doing better than Gezza around the same time.
Whilst it evens things out in theory, you've forgot to factor in the worse injury crisis imaginable.
He's not doing better that GH at the same time, either.
Last year - P14, 17 points
Now - P14, 16 points
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precisely. no chairman is going to cut us to the bone like Lerner has over the past 18months and then watch all the savings thrown away by a relegation
That same argument could be applied to Houllier 12 months ago, when results were actually worse and we had to improve to get to 9th. Yet rather than sack him for fear of relegation, Randy backed him in the market to buy Darren Bent.
True but Mcleish had a preseason to try and get his side in order, Houllier came in much later. Whilst Mcleish has a weaker squad, you'd expect him to have a much better handle on things by now.
To me that pretty much evens things out - Houllier had less time, but better players, AM has had more time with lesser players.
And from a results perspective AM is doing better than Gezza around the same time.
Whilst it evens things out in theory, you've forgot to factor in the worse injury crisis imaginable.
We had also already played Arsenal,'The Mighty Reds YNWA',Chelsea,Spurs and Manure this time last year
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What selective memories we all have. The defeats at Man City and Liverpool last season were at least as bad as anything this season and that's without mentioning losing at Blackburn and the defeat at home to Sunderland which was one of the most depressing evenings I've ever endured and I've been married.
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precisely. no chairman is going to cut us to the bone like Lerner has over the past 18months and then watch all the savings thrown away by a relegation
That same argument could be applied to Houllier 12 months ago, when results were actually worse and we had to improve to get to 9th. Yet rather than sack him for fear of relegation, Randy backed him in the market to buy Darren Bent.
True but Mcleish had a preseason to try and get his side in order, Houllier came in much later. Whilst Mcleish has a weaker squad, you'd expect him to have a much better handle on things by now.
To me that pretty much evens things out - Houllier had less time, but better players, AM has had more time with lesser players.
And from a results perspective AM is doing better than Gezza around the same time.
Whilst it evens things out in theory, you've forgot to factor in the worse injury crisis imaginable.
We had also already played Arsenal,'The Mighty Reds YNWA',Chelsea,Spurs and Manure this time last year
Ok so we have a worse points record and have played on the whole easier games. It doesn't look good at all.
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I dont think the GH reign and AM reign can be compared. Ok, results wise it wasn't the best at first with GH but he came in late and only got to sign a couple of players in Jan. We played some good stuff under him and towards the end of the season, it started to show. I still believe that had GH been incharge now, we would be better off (points wise anyway). he would have signed some quality foreign players on the cheap that could have come in a done really well. I mean look at that Cabaye for nufc. He claimed that had GH been in charge then he would of signed for villa. GH was getting rid of the "untouchables" i.e. Petrov, Collins, Dunne, Warnock and would have replaced them with better quality players and incorporate the youth. Ciaran clark who I think did fairly well under GH was developing nicely but since Eck has come in, he hasn't had a look in. Eck hasn't a clue im afraid but we are stuck with him for the next 3 seasons.
Ask liverpool fans, GH would have made us solid at the back and difficult to beat but also play good football. With Eck in charge, I have no idea whats going on
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In fairness, I dont think we'd played Liverpool or Arsenal in our first 14 games last year.
Lest we forget, though, last season we'd lost our manager five days before the start of the season, we then had a caretaker manager, and didn't have a permanent manager until tje sixth league game of the season. After that, we had a horrendous run of injuries.
In McLeish's favour, we've lost two of our best players since then, but then we didn't have Darren Bent then either.
With Houllier we were frequently hopeless. There's no getting away from that. We did at least try to play football, though. This is McLeish's style of football we're seeing now, this is what he does. He's not going to undergo a conversion to attacking any time soon.
You can argue that our results match those of a mid table team (although over the last seven games, they certainly don't), but if we're settled for mid table, let's at least try and play a bit of football.
The guff we're being served up now is going to sap the remaining drops of goodwill and optimism from the support.
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I would have prefered it if Sid Cowans was in charge for the remaining of season. But I read something recently about he wouldn't want the job due to the pressure. The board have proper fucked us up with this appointment regardless.
whos he ? I thought it was Gowans on the coaching staff ;)
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Also, for me the most puzzling and disappointing thing about McLeish's appointment is that Houllier was at least trying to change the way we play, to modernise us.
McLeish is every bit as prehistoric as O'Neill in that sense. I just don't understand why we've gone through the pain of last season to revert to this old school style.
Oh, and given the slew of interviews of late with current players slating Houllier's style, it is looking more and more like he was in the right on that one, and the players were wrong.
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In fairness, I dont think we'd played Liverpool or Arsenal in our first 14 games last year.
Lest we forget, though, last season we'd lost our manager five days before the start of the season, we then had a caretaker manager, and didn't have a permanent manager until tje sixth league game of the season. After that, we had a horrendous run of injuries.
In McLeish's favour, we've lost two of our best players since then, but then we didn't have Darren Bent then either.
With Houllier we were frequently hopeless. There's no getting away from that. We did at least try to play football, though. This is McLeish's style of football we're seeing now, this is what he does. He's not going to undergo a conversion to attacking any time soon.
You can argue that our results match those of a mid table team (although over the last seven games, they certainly don't), but if we're settled for mid table, let's at least try and play a bit of football.
The guff we're being served up now is going to sap the remaining drops of goodwill and optimism from the support.
Yep and you also had the impression that Houllier actually had a plan. Don't get me wrong, it didn't go well in a lot of places. However he was trying to change the club and planning to sign the likes of Cabaye signifies that. We look utterly planless and clueless now, and play diabolical gutless football along with it.
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I also wonder if his comments about "sorting the defence out in the summer", for which he understandable got a lot of stick at the time, were primarily along the lines of "sell them, they're all shit", because by and large, they are all shit.
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I dont think the GH reign and AM reign can be compared. Ok, results wise it wasn't the best at first with GH but he came in late and only got to sign a couple of players in Jan. We played some good stuff under him and towards the end of the season, it started to show. I still believe that had GH been incharge now, we would be better off (points wise anyway). he would have signed some quality foreign players on the cheap that could have come in a done really well. I mean look at that Cabaye for nufc. He claimed that had GH been in charge then he would of signed for villa. GH was getting rid of the "untouchables" i.e. Petrov, Collins, Dunne, Warnock and would have replaced them with better quality players and incorporate the youth. Ciaran clark who I think did fairly well under GH was developing nicely but since Eck has come in, he hasn't had a look in. Eck hasn't a clue im afraid but we are stuck with him for the next 3 seasons.
Ask liverpool fans, GH would have made us solid at the back and difficult to beat but also play good football. With Eck in charge, I have no idea whats going on
if Houlier was still boss , Im not saying he was perfect but he wouldnt have spent £4 million on Hutton neither .
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Also, for me the most puzzling and disappointing thing about McLeish's appointment is that Houllier was at least trying to change the way we play, to modernise us.
McLeish is every bit as prehistoric as O'Neill in that sense. I just don't understand why we've gone through the pain of last season to revert to this old school style.
Oh, and given the slew of interviews of late with current players slating Houllier's style, it is looking more and more like he was in the right on that one, and the players were wrong.
Couldn't agree more. The players GH fell out with are the ones who are letting us down on a consistent basis - Dunne, Collins and Warnock. Gabby had a rant as well but I believe he was in the wrong as well as sometimes he comes across with a bad attitude. Again, with Gabby, I feel he is being wasted out wide on the left in an attacking 3. He needs to play up front with Bent.
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I also wonder if his comments about "sorting the defence out in the summer", for which he understandable got a lot of stick at the time, were primarily along the lines of "sell them, they're all shit", because by and large, they are all shit.
aye. He had all their cards marked. Unfortunately illness and cost put paid to that good idea.
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Raymond Stubbs on ESPN said at Half Time on Saturday and I quote 'The Aston Villa fans are not going to continue to accept this are they Kevin'? It was almost like he was saying it actually feeling our pain. Never been a great fan of his but in one sentence he summed my feelings up perfectly.
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I dont think the GH reign and AM reign can be compared. Ok, results wise it wasn't the best at first with GH but he came in late and only got to sign a couple of players in Jan. We played some good stuff under him and towards the end of the season, it started to show. I still believe that had GH been incharge now, we would be better off (points wise anyway). he would have signed some quality foreign players on the cheap that could have come in a done really well. I mean look at that Cabaye for nufc. He claimed that had GH been in charge then he would of signed for villa. GH was getting rid of the "untouchables" i.e. Petrov, Collins, Dunne, Warnock and would have replaced them with better quality players and incorporate the youth. Ciaran clark who I think did fairly well under GH was developing nicely but since Eck has come in, he hasn't had a look in. Eck hasn't a clue im afraid but we are stuck with him for the next 3 seasons.
Ask liverpool fans, GH would have made us solid at the back and difficult to beat but also play good football. With Eck in charge, I have no idea whats going on
if Houlier was still boss , Im not saying he was perfect but he wouldnt have spent £4 million on Hutton neither .
Very true indeed!
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I liked Houllier. Didn't agree with everything he did, but he would have taken the whole club in the right direction.
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I agree with most of that, Paulie, although we've seen glimpses of us try to play a more attacking game so I'm not convinced by this is how it will always be argument. As I keep saying the problem is the midfield, the rest of the side is good enough to keep us in the top half but the creative players are failing to deliver, when Petrov is absent there's no leadership and there's little dynamism. To me that's a problem of personnel not tactics or formations. Put Scott Parker in our team and we'd be several points better off.
Having made his choice I think Lerner will give him at least the season to justify his faith in him. I just hope we can fix the flaws otherwise it's going to be a miserable time both at the game and on here.
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Gabby would be gone too if GH had stayed, it was pretty clear that he didn't fit in with his plans.
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Midfield is a problem and he gets rid of Makoun and Gardner should be on the bench .
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We all need to take a step back and stop being the hyperbole brigade. Things are definitely bad and rotten to the core, and as fans, we have every right to be vocal about it. But equally we have to be fair and say in some instances we have not helped ourselves throughout this farcical appointment, albeit through the minority, and I’m thinking of the shameful graffiti on Bodymoor where we should never deface our own club. This is even made worse by our – in some cases still shameless - actions towards the General where we continue to act like spoilt little children who have had their favourite toy taken off them and continue to call him a ‘coward’. Doe he owe us anything? No, he was doing us a favour in the first place where some and even the most respected posters pretty much just spat in his face by acting as they did. He simply spat back by “leaving us”.
And now for Eck; there can be no single fan that would have even put him on their Christmas card list let alone the top of a managerial search. His philosophies, coaching style, continued blind eye towards youth and passionless football is not Aston Villa at all. Villa fans are simple tribal creatures and all we want is for us to show passion, fight for every ball and pass to the nearest team might whilst showing ambition and guile. Our strength throughout our history has always been on young players whether it is a young Andy Grey or Dwight Yorke. These simple things are constantly ignored which is why he will never be accepted.
Added to this Eck has effectively started on a ‘second chance’ to prove us wrong and see what he can do. But all he has done is prove our worse fears right sending alarm bells ringing that this will be just like his previous season sending us all into hyper-panic.
What I’m saying is, just like you all, I do not believe this manager is ‘Aston Villa’ - nor will he ever be - as he’s the polar opposite. But we owe it to give it to January just as we all said we would to, in a sense, to let him resume his trial before we've hung him before the guilty verdict is read out.
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Midfield is a problem and he gets rid of Makoun and Gardner should be on the bench .
Makoun is neither creative, dynamic or a leader so I'm not sure how he would solve our problems. We'll benefit far more from Gardner getting some experience of adult football in the long run than we would having him sat on our bench.
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Raymond Stubbs on ESPN said at Half Time on Saturday and I quote 'The Aston Villa fans are not going to continue to accept this are they Kevin'? It was almost like he was saying it actually feeling our pain. Never been a great fan of his but in one sentence he summed my feelings up perfectly.
Seen this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/dec/04/alex-mcleish-aston-villa-espn
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I agree with most of that, Paulie, although we've seen glimpses of us try to play a more attacking game so I'm not convinced by this is how it will always be argument. As I keep saying the problem is the midfield, the rest of the side is good enough to keep us in the top half but the creative players are failing to deliver, when Petrov is absent there's no leadership and there's little dynamism. To me that's a problem of personnel not tactics or formations. Put Scott Parker in our team and we'd be several points better off.
Having made his choice I think Lerner will give him at least the season to justify his faith in him. I just hope we can fix the flaws otherwise it's going to be a miserable time both at the game and on here.
That the thing. Unless you're completely trigger happy a manager needs to get his ideas across, evolve the squad to what he wants and get a firm grip on things. And what all that adds up to is time. I wasn't a Houllier fan, but repeatedly said that the time to judge him was the summer. I think AM deserves no less, so unless we get into a real pickle then he should have time to put things right.
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I agree with most of that, Paulie, although we've seen glimpses of us try to play a more attacking game so I'm not convinced by this is how it will always be argument. As I keep saying the problem is the midfield, the rest of the side is good enough to keep us in the top half but the creative players are failing to deliver, when Petrov is absent there's no leadership and there's little dynamism. To me that's a problem of personnel not tactics or formations. Put Scott Parker in our team and we'd be several points better off.
Having made his choice I think Lerner will give him at least the season to justify his faith in him. I just hope we can fix the flaws otherwise it's going to be a miserable time both at the game and on here.
I think, barring a disastrous run of results, he's going to get at least the season.
The problem is, and I'm not screaming "we're doomed", I genuinely do think there's a very real chance of us getting relegated, unless there's - soonish - a marked improvement in our football.
It also makes me nervous to hear about N'Zogbia being a problem, and Dunne arguing with the manager. That's the last thing we need in the mix.
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Can't see McLeish being sacked just now but should it happen my own personal choice would be
1st Davie Moyes
2nd Walter Smith
3rd Carlo Ancelotti
4th Paul Lambert
5th Frank Rijkaard
Moyes a well respected coach who has taken Everton as far as he can IMO
Smith a hugely successful manager who knows how to get best out of under achieving team
Ancelotti good manager who would only helo improve our fortunes IMO
Lambert promising start to career but my fear is would he cope with expectations at a Big Club like Villa
Rijkaard another good coach who could bring something to table but imo he'd want a big budget and that doesnt look likely
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In fairness, I dont think we'd played Liverpool or Arsenal in our first 14 games last year.
You're correct.Two international breaks.Apologies
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Moyes isn't going to come here. Rijkaard is going to be too expensive. Ancelotti wasn't interested last time.
I understand the argument that we had to get someone relatively cheap and mid table-ish (although AM usually falls below that), but I'd rather have taken a punt on someone from the lower leagues like Poyet and at least have a go at playing some football in the meantime.
I know I sound like a broken record on this shit football thing, but it's so disheartening to watch (at least I've been consistent on that issue, mind).
I'd normally be of the opinion of giving a manager time, as I was with Houllier, but can anyone really, realistically see this appointment ending in a good place?
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Raymond Stubbs on ESPN said at Half Time on Saturday and I quote 'The Aston Villa fans are not going to continue to accept this are they Kevin'? It was almost like he was saying it actually feeling our pain. Never been a great fan of his but in one sentence he summed my feelings up perfectly.
Seen this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/dec/04/alex-mcleish-aston-villa-espn
The quote about us one day beating Manure as though we are Stockport County, pretty much sums up the managers mind set of inferiority that is taken onto the pitch by the players.
The fact we were regularly beating the Top 4 clubs until least season seems to have slipped his mind.
Then again, he was targeted by the club as a relegation battler.
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Can't see McLeish being sacked just now but should it happen my own personal choice would be
1st Davie Moyes
2nd Walter Smith
3rd Carlo Ancelotti
4th Paul Lambert
5th Frank Rijkaard
Moyes: He isn't going to want to swap a club with a small budget, for a club with a small budget. Walter Smith: no. Your 3rd, 4th and 5th choices: you'd have more chance seeing a manger of the blues being appoin . . . oops.
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Moyes isn't going to come here. Rijkaard is going to be too expensive. Ancelotti wasn't interested last time.
I understand the argument that we had to get someone relatively cheap and mid table-ish (although AM usually falls below that), but I'd rather have taken a punt on someone from the lower leagues like Poyet and at least have a go at playing some football in the meantime.
I know I sound like a broken record on this shit football thing, but it's so disheartening to watch (at least I've been consistent on that issue, mind).
I'd normally be of the opinion of giving a manager time, as I was with Houllier, but can anyone really, realistically see this appointment ending in a good place?
No I can't see it ending in a good place regardless of the time afforded to it, in fact I can't see it improving at all. I'm normally one for giving managers time, and I don't have a problem with Mcleish as a man but it just isn't going to work. The football we play is awful and shows no sign of improvement, so it'd probably be best for all concerned to cut their losses.
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The quote about us one day beating Manure as though we are Stockport County, pretty much sums up the managers mind set of inferiority that is taken onto the pitch by the players.
No, as though we are Aston Villa who haven't beaten them at Villa Park since 1996 hence why he was asked about it.
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I'd normally be of the opinion of giving a manager time, as I was with Houllier, but can anyone really, realistically see this appointment ending in a good place?
If I'm honest, I can't.
Even if he gets the team playing better and results improve, we haven't the finances to be anything better than an upper mid table club right now, which will then mean the 'boring defensive football' argument will always be thrown at him, even if in actuality that improves also.
He's on a hiding to nothing and so is Randy for giving him the job!
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The quote about us one day beating Manure as though we are Stockport County, pretty much sums up the managers mind set of inferiority that is taken onto the pitch by the players.
No, as though we are Aston Villa who haven't beaten them at Villa Park since 1996 hence why he was asked about it.
It was 1995.
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I'd normally be of the opinion of giving a manager time, as I was with Houllier, but can anyone really, realistically see this appointment ending in a good place?
If I'm honest, I can't.
Even if he gets the team playing better and results improve, we haven't the finances to be anything better than an upper mid table club right now, which will then mean the 'boring defensive football' argument will always be thrown at him, even if in actuality that improves also.
He's on a hiding to nothing and so is Randy for giving him the job!
Does it ever end in a good place for any of our managers?
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The quote about us one day beating Manure as though we are Stockport County, pretty much sums up the managers mind set of inferiority that is taken onto the pitch by the players.
No, as though we are Aston Villa who haven't beaten them at Villa Park since 1996 hence why he was asked about it.
He could have said something along the lines of:
"Its way too long for a club of Aston Villa's stature to go without beating someone. We'll be doing our utmost to ensure that run ends today"
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Does it ever end in a good place for any of our managers?
True, but I was answering the question along the lines of whether we'll ever get to a 'good place' before he walks/gets sacked.
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.... Put Scott Parker in our team and we'd be several points better off.
.....
Put Mellberg, Laursen and Bouma in the team and we would be challenging top 4.
The results we are achieving aren't that different from MON's in his heydey if you take away the goals Laursen and Mellberg got for us from corners and the ones the current lot give away.
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We might not have beaten Man U since Adam was a lad, but we have always given them a game.....until Saturday.
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The quote about us one day beating Manure as though we are Stockport County, pretty much sums up the managers mind set of inferiority that is taken onto the pitch by the players.
No, as though we are Aston Villa who haven't beaten them at Villa Park since 1996 hence why he was asked about it.
The mentality needs to change and quick.
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Copied and pasted from The Goalzone with Tom Ross (on FB):
This will shock most, I’m a season ticket holder who NEVER wanted McLeish, I gave him a chance, turned on him after Spurs, but I’ve looked at Villa closely since & I feel sorry for Alex. I hope he stays! I walked into Villa Saturday, heard the line up & smiled. He went for it with an attacking side, but the players didn’t! 2nd half was better but some players weren’t confident. These players have backed McLeish in the press; they’re not against him. But some appear frightened of making mistakes & have no confidence. Albrighton said on AVTV after United, “We were scared.” I’ve heard McLeish scream at our team to press up & get it wide, trying everything to motivate them, but some have lacked confidence for many months! Certain things aren’t right at Villa but McLeish isn’t one of them. His hands are tied with team selections, the team has no self-confidence & the fans have no confidence in McLeish. Our sneaky board have set McLeish up to divert the blame from them & their mistakes.
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Copied and pasted from The Goalzone with Tom Ross (on FB):
This will shock most, I’m a season ticket holder who NEVER wanted McLeish, I gave him a chance, turned on him after Spurs, but I’ve looked at Villa closely since & I feel sorry for Alex. I hope he stays! I walked into Villa Saturday, heard the line up & smiled. He went for it with an attacking side, but the players didn’t! 2nd half was better but some players weren’t confident. These players have backed McLeish in the press; they’re not against him. But some appear frightened of making mistakes & have no confidence. Albrighton said on AVTV after United, “We were scared.” I’ve heard McLeish scream at our team to press up & get it wide, trying everything to motivate them, but some have lacked confidence for many months! Certain things aren’t right at Villa but McLeish isn’t one of them. His hands are tied with team selections, the team has no self-confidence & the fans have no confidence in McLeish. Our sneaky board have set McLeish up to divert the blame from them & their mistakes.
I'm sure there's something in this. Apart from screaming at them, there's not a lot any manager can do once the match is underway. I don't believe McLeish told Collins (to name but one sorry example) to resort to hoofing at every opportunity. That sort of desperate get-rid-of-it-at-all-costs mentality is (in this case at least) in the player's head, not the manager's pre-match talk.
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The idea that the board appointed him to take the blame from them stands up to about a second's scrutiny. If they didn't want any blame they'd have gone for a popular manager in the first place.
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The idea that the board appointed him to take the blame from them stands up to about a second's scrutiny. If they didn't want any blame they'd have gone for a popular manager in the first place.
Well quite, I don't agree with that bit!
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An open letter to Alex McLeish:
It is worth laying my cards on the table. I was disappointed with your appointment as manager of Aston Villa as I felt that you did not have the credentials to lead the club or to improve on last year`s season which at times could only be described at bleak.
It was not for what in my mind is the pretty immature reason of where you had come from to take the job - I couldn`t care less where you came from - I just want Aston Villa to be a successful football club. My concerns were more to do with you previous seasons in the Premier League, where you had seen the same team through two relegations from the top flight with the brand of football being blamed partly on this relegation. Your spell in Scotland also, where amongst the trophies a finish of third with Glasgow Rangers can only be seen as a failure.
I feel it`s important to explain the above as despite still having my concerns, your comments to the various supporter`s groups who could attend the meeting shortly after you were appointed gave me hope that this club could achieve success with you as manager. In particular:
1. That you would utilize the attacking players we had at the club for a fast paced, dynamic style of play using wingers and raiding full backs.
2.That Stewart Downing would not be sold unless a massive - £50m was quoted - figure was offered.
3. That you wouldn`t disrespect the club by not playing our strongest teams in the cups, as had happened under previous managers throwing away chances of success.
4. That you would pair Gabby Agbonlahor with Darren Bent as Gabby is 'wasted on the wing`.
These were the things that I wanted to hear. It gave me hope that I had been over the top in my fears.
But as I write this letter, I am sad to say that unfortunately my fears have come true. Perhaps I should have seen it coming sooner, once Stewart Downing was sold off - but the style of play, defensive tedium and number of points picked up in a relatively easy run of fixtures is not acceptable for Aston Villa.
Every promise mentioned above has been broken. We play the most dull and imaginative football in England - which either you have asked the team to play, or the team is ignoring your orders and playing themselves. We sold off Downing, and put out a second-rate, poor performance in the League Cup. We have only seen Gabby Agbonlahor and Darren Bent paired up together possibly once or twice, with Gabby often played out on the wing with the supply line cut off for our £20million striker Darren Bent.
We have seen dismally poor performances with no attacking intention against Fulham, Wolves, Newcastle (where Shay Given won us a point), QPR, West Brom and more recently Tottenham, Swansea and Manchester United.
am sure that you could not blame me for seeing the connection between your team last year being relegated because they did not score enough goals (despite losing five less games than a team that stayed in the division) and our very own problems. If we don`t try to create opportunities for our players to score goals, then we won`t score goals.
The team put out on the pitch for the game against Tottenham was very much the kind of insult that had been explained to you at that fans meeting. It had no intent on winning the game and when it had failed to keep Tottenham away from the goal early on, there was no change in tactics, plan or mentality. It was an insult to the supporters of this football club to go to Tottenham Hotspur with damage limitation as our number one priority.
I am not stupid. I do not believe that Aston Villa is capable of playing free flowing, beautiful football week in, week out. I do not expect that. But what I do expect is for the team to go into every game with the mentality of wanting to win the game. To create some chances. The greatest example of this is only last week Crystal Palace went to Old Trafford with - defensive stability at the forefront of their minds - but also a willingness to attack the home team and went home with a place in the semi-finals of the League Cup because of it.
Aston Villa are not winning games because they do not deserve to be. Any team with our currently mentality do not deserve it.
could completely understand my thoughts being written off as 'fan panic`, or as someone who did not want you at the club. You are probably right if you did think this. Two recent polls as they stand give you a 3% and a 4% approval rating, so at least I`m not the only one if this is the case. However, people within football are damning your management of the club in the same way as the fans. John Barnes was quoted as saying "You can play that kind of football at Birmingham, but not at a club like Aston Villa", which may be slightly condescending towards our neighbours makes an important point about the differences of the two sides and the performances that your teams are putting out.
The Guardian`s match report of the Manchester United game told us that "Villa, however, were nothing short of an ambition-free disgrace". Kevin Keegan was just as damning saying "You have got a moral obligation to go and try to win a game at home…this is the worst home display I`ve seen from a team for a very, very long time".
These aren`t biased Villa fans. They are the honest opinions of three professionals who work in the game.
And now we sit here on the same number of points, and goal difference as you had this time last year. When your team were relegated. Are you getting a sense of de ja vu? Can you understand why I am worried enough to write this letter?
What is your plan for Aston Villa FC? Why do you think things are going so wrong? Do you think things are going wrong? How are you going to improve the team?
Because as things stand you players are not responding to you. Your tactics are not working and we are struggling to win football games. Your tactics are driving away thousands of Villa fans because while it may be miserable to watch us lose a game, it`s even more miserable to watch us cross over the halfway line and lose. It is costing the club money in final league placing merits and match day revenue. It is breaking the goodwill and link between the club and it`s supporters.
How are you going to fix this? What words can you give to us to put confidence in you?
The vast majority of the club`s supporters do not want you here. The club`s players are not responding to you and the tactics you are employing at this football club are not working, just as they didn`t last season for your previous club.
Quite frankly, it is becoming clear that you and Aston Villa are not a good fit, and in your heart - you must surely be having similar thoughts.
You may not be a 'quitter` - but you are a man with intelligence. And that is why, for the good of Aston Villa FC I urge you to resign from your position. This wouldn`t be 'quitting`. It`d be an acceptance that the philosophies that both the football club and you hold are so far apart that it`s damaging the club.
Copied and pasted from the Vital network.
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I would like someone like lee Clark to come
In!
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Houllier was able to install confidence in our youngsters. One of the reasons (supposely) why the board wanted AM in the helm was to make good use of our academy. Well, it's not really working is it? I mean Bannan has been the best out of the bad bunch but that's not saying much. No where near the class he was under Houllier and especially Albrighton who's shot to pieces.
And I still don't know why he hasn't used Clark when he could do with important games such as these. Collins has made several mistakes this season yet he is always automatically selected over him.
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An open letter to Alex McLeish:
It is worth laying my cards on the table. I was disappointed with your appointment as manager of Aston Villa as I felt that you did not have the credentials to lead the club or to improve on last year`s season which at times could only be described at bleak.
It was not for what in my mind is the pretty immature reason of where you had come from to take the job - I couldn`t care less where you came from - I just want Aston Villa to be a successful football club. My concerns were more to do with you previous seasons in the Premier League, where you had seen the same team through two relegations from the top flight with the brand of football being blamed partly on this relegation. Your spell in Scotland also, where amongst the trophies a finish of third with Glasgow Rangers can only be seen as a failure.
I feel it`s important to explain the above as despite still having my concerns, your comments to the various supporter`s groups who could attend the meeting shortly after you were appointed gave me hope that this club could achieve success with you as manager. In particular:
1. That you would utilize the attacking players we had at the club for a fast paced, dynamic style of play using wingers and raiding full backs.
2.That Stewart Downing would not be sold unless a massive - £50m was quoted - figure was offered.
3. That you wouldn`t disrespect the club by not playing our strongest teams in the cups, as had happened under previous managers throwing away chances of success.
4. That you would pair Gabby Agbonlahor with Darren Bent as Gabby is 'wasted on the wing`.
These were the things that I wanted to hear. It gave me hope that I had been over the top in my fears.
But as I write this letter, I am sad to say that unfortunately my fears have come true. Perhaps I should have seen it coming sooner, once Stewart Downing was sold off - but the style of play, defensive tedium and number of points picked up in a relatively easy run of fixtures is not acceptable for Aston Villa.
Every promise mentioned above has been broken. We play the most dull and imaginative football in England - which either you have asked the team to play, or the team is ignoring your orders and playing themselves. We sold off Downing, and put out a second-rate, poor performance in the League Cup. We have only seen Gabby Agbonlahor and Darren Bent paired up together possibly once or twice, with Gabby often played out on the wing with the supply line cut off for our £20million striker Darren Bent.
We have seen dismally poor performances with no attacking intention against Fulham, Wolves, Newcastle (where Shay Given won us a point), QPR, West Brom and more recently Tottenham, Swansea and Manchester United.
am sure that you could not blame me for seeing the connection between your team last year being relegated because they did not score enough goals (despite losing five less games than a team that stayed in the division) and our very own problems. If we don`t try to create opportunities for our players to score goals, then we won`t score goals.
The team put out on the pitch for the game against Tottenham was very much the kind of insult that had been explained to you at that fans meeting. It had no intent on winning the game and when it had failed to keep Tottenham away from the goal early on, there was no change in tactics, plan or mentality. It was an insult to the supporters of this football club to go to Tottenham Hotspur with damage limitation as our number one priority.
I am not stupid. I do not believe that Aston Villa is capable of playing free flowing, beautiful football week in, week out. I do not expect that. But what I do expect is for the team to go into every game with the mentality of wanting to win the game. To create some chances. The greatest example of this is only last week Crystal Palace went to Old Trafford with - defensive stability at the forefront of their minds - but also a willingness to attack the home team and went home with a place in the semi-finals of the League Cup because of it.
Aston Villa are not winning games because they do not deserve to be. Any team with our currently mentality do not deserve it.
could completely understand my thoughts being written off as 'fan panic`, or as someone who did not want you at the club. You are probably right if you did think this. Two recent polls as they stand give you a 3% and a 4% approval rating, so at least I`m not the only one if this is the case. However, people within football are damning your management of the club in the same way as the fans. John Barnes was quoted as saying "You can play that kind of football at Birmingham, but not at a club like Aston Villa", which may be slightly condescending towards our neighbours makes an important point about the differences of the two sides and the performances that your teams are putting out.
The Guardian`s match report of the Manchester United game told us that "Villa, however, were nothing short of an ambition-free disgrace". Kevin Keegan was just as damning saying "You have got a moral obligation to go and try to win a game at home…this is the worst home display I`ve seen from a team for a very, very long time".
These aren`t biased Villa fans. They are the honest opinions of three professionals who work in the game.
And now we sit here on the same number of points, and goal difference as you had this time last year. When your team were relegated. Are you getting a sense of de ja vu? Can you understand why I am worried enough to write this letter?
What is your plan for Aston Villa FC? Why do you think things are going so wrong? Do you think things are going wrong? How are you going to improve the team?
Because as things stand you players are not responding to you. Your tactics are not working and we are struggling to win football games. Your tactics are driving away thousands of Villa fans because while it may be miserable to watch us lose a game, it`s even more miserable to watch us cross over the halfway line and lose. It is costing the club money in final league placing merits and match day revenue. It is breaking the goodwill and link between the club and it`s supporters.
How are you going to fix this? What words can you give to us to put confidence in you?
The vast majority of the club`s supporters do not want you here. The club`s players are not responding to you and the tactics you are employing at this football club are not working, just as they didn`t last season for your previous club.
Quite frankly, it is becoming clear that you and Aston Villa are not a good fit, and in your heart - you must surely be having similar thoughts.
You may not be a 'quitter` - but you are a man with intelligence. And that is why, for the good of Aston Villa FC I urge you to resign from your position. This wouldn`t be 'quitting`. It`d be an acceptance that the philosophies that both the football club and you hold are so far apart that it`s damaging the club.
Copied and pasted from the Vital network.
That open letter was a great read. Apart from the last sentence. He is a quitter. He quitted Blues through a sloppy e-mail because we were stupid enough to increase his wages. And he won't quit here because he'll miss his huge compensation payout if he does.
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Moyes isn't going to come here. Rijkaard is going to be too expensive. Ancelotti wasn't interested last time.
I understand the argument that we had to get someone relatively cheap and mid table-ish (although AM usually falls below that), but I'd rather have taken a punt on someone from the lower leagues like Poyet and at least have a go at playing some football in the meantime.
I know I sound like a broken record on this shit football thing, but it's so disheartening to watch (at least I've been consistent on that issue, mind).
I'd normally be of the opinion of giving a manager time, as I was with Houllier, but can anyone really, realistically see this appointment ending in a good place?
I think you and I have a similar disbelief at the quite staggeringly change of direction of the board, and it is something I would love to be explained. Faulkner spoke of Ajax, footballing philosophy and Houllier spoke of want to build a footballing style.
Then they looked hard at Martinez, who for all his flaws would have continued that ideal.
And then appointed McLeish. Amazing. Just Amazing. The appointment was so ridiculous that it could not be explained in any sane way. Poyet I agree would have made infinitely more sense. I would have him tomorrow.
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If you aim low you get.........
Money aside you reckon Frank Rijkaard is happy managing Saudi?
The right approach and we could get him. I thought he was potentially interested last time before he was gazumped by AM.
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Moyes isn't going to come here. Rijkaard is going to be too expensive. Ancelotti wasn't interested last time.
I understand the argument that we had to get someone relatively cheap and mid table-ish (although AM usually falls below that), but I'd rather have taken a punt on someone from the lower leagues like Poyet and at least have a go at playing some football in the meantime.
I know I sound like a broken record on this shit football thing, but it's so disheartening to watch (at least I've been consistent on that issue, mind).
I'd normally be of the opinion of giving a manager time, as I was with Houllier, but can anyone really, realistically see this appointment ending in a good place?
I think you and I have a similar disbelief at the quite staggeringly change of direction of the board, and it is something I would love to be explained. Faulkner spoke of Ajax, footballing philosophy and Houllier spoke of want to build a footballing style.
Then they looked hard at Martinez, who for all his flaws would have continued that ideal.
And then appointed McLeish. Amazing. Just Amazing. The appointment was so ridiculous that it could not be explained in any sane way. Poyet I agree would have made infinitely more sense. I would have him tomorrow.
This is my major concern also.
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Exactly.
They wanted a manager to get poor results, oversee a poor standard of football to ratchet up the pressure on them tenfold because...?
Not many will suggest now that the McLeish appointment was an inspired bit of business, but I'm pretty certain the board picked him for the right reasons. They just look like they've got it horribly and spectacularly wrong.
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The idea that the players are not listening to him did'nt cross my mind to be honest and it's a possible theory as to why we're so shockingly bad at the moment. If there are certain players who are'nt following his orders, then he needs to drop them and not be afraid to either. However, if he has lost the dressing room at this early stage, then there's only one way it's going to go.
It's a shame it's going like it is, because i do actually like the bloke. I wanted him to succeed when we appointed him (if though i did'nt want him) and i still do.
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It's a shame it's going like it is, because i do actually like the bloke. I wanted him to succeed when we appointed him (if though i did'nt want him) and i still do.
Me too.
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It's a shame it's going like it is, because i do actually like the bloke. I wanted him to succeed when we appointed him (even though i did'nt want him) and i still do.
Me too.
I just can't see it happening though unfortunatley.
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It's a shame it's going like it is, because i do actually like the bloke. I wanted him to succeed when we appointed him (even though i did'nt want him) and i still do.
Me too.
I just can't see it happening though unfortunatley.
I like him as well. He seems a man of integrity.
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It's a shame it's going like it is, because i do actually like the bloke. I wanted him to succeed when we appointed him (even though i did'nt want him) and i still do.
Me too.
I just can't see it happening though unfortunately.
I like him as well. He seems a man of integrity.
;D Like when he quit by Email.
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Oh he seems a really good eck, but how much leeway do you give a bloke because you like him. I like listening to Graeme Sounnes talk on Sky, he seems to talk well of the game and analyse well in a studio, but I would not want him managing the club in any way shape or form. Something has to give. Lose the next 5, or indeed only get a couple of points from the next 5 and we are propper in the poop, and he will have to walk.
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Moyes isn't going to come here. Rijkaard is going to be too expensive. Ancelotti wasn't interested last time.
I understand the argument that we had to get someone relatively cheap and mid table-ish (although AM usually falls below that), but I'd rather have taken a punt on someone from the lower leagues like Poyet and at least have a go at playing some football in the meantime.
I know I sound like a broken record on this shit football thing, but it's so disheartening to watch (at least I've been consistent on that issue, mind).
I'd normally be of the opinion of giving a manager time, as I was with Houllier, but can anyone really, realistically see this appointment ending in a good place?
I think you and I have a similar disbelief at the quite staggeringly change of direction of the board, and it is something I would love to be explained. Faulkner spoke of Ajax, footballing philosophy and Houllier spoke of want to build a footballing style.
Then they looked hard at Martinez, who for all his flaws would have continued that ideal.
And then appointed McLeish. Amazing. Just Amazing. The appointment was so ridiculous that it could not be explained in any sane way. Poyet I agree would have made infinitely more sense. I would have him tomorrow.
It was a tad schizophrenic, wasn't it?
Also underlines the ridiculousness of the 'PL Experience' condition. If a manager from o/s was more capable of implementing the Ajax model, PL experience should be way down the list of considerations. Particularly when that PL experience largely amounted to failure.
As an extreme example:
Paul Jewell or Pep Guardiola?
Dave Bassett or Johan Cruyff?
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It's a shame it's going like it is, because i do actually like the bloke. I wanted him to succeed when we appointed him (even though i did'nt want him) and i still do.
Me too.
I just can't see it happening though unfortunatley.
I like him as well. He seems a man of integrity.
And I.
In fact, MOST fans I speak to aren't the rabid mob screaming for blood that seem to have the loudest voices at times. Most people I know are disappointed that he's turning out to be a dud so far. He is saying all the right things but the players don't seem to either know what he's telling them or they just don't care. I can't believe the players are so poor that their actual level is the rubbish we're watching lately.
There needed to be a reaction after Spurs, there wasn't really and the first half against Swansea was awful. There needed to be a reaction after that too and we got the dross of Saturday night. We haven't looked convincing for more than 20 minutes this season. He HAS varied the team selection and for that he deserves credit, but I'd ask whether he buckled under public pressure to play that team and did so without giving any different instruction. I just worry he's out of his depth.
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I think most people want him to succeed, apart from a few mentalists and Blues fans of course. However, I think it was pretty apparent to most that he wasn't going to.
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We know that some of you look at these threads so pass the message on to those that don't. We the supporters don't care if you have a beef with the manager or you don't like the training methods or you wish to be somewhere else. You are living our dream, to be paid huge incomes to play football for the team we love, Villa is our passion and when we see you guys just going through the motions seemingly without any desire to represent the shirt really pisses us off... ...there is no excuse for the dismal displays we've been watching over the last few months. Next time you run onto the Villa Park pitch have a look around the ground,every single Villa supporter wishes he was you, you are our players. The very least we expect is a total committment to the club and it's supporters.
Originally posted here (http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=41589.0)
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aye. Just a mental appointment. After all the fall-out with MON and then Houllier you'd think they'd want someone who everyone would get behind. Instead they probably chose probably the most contraversial option going short of DOL returning
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factory of sadness indeed. Could easily be describing us .
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Exactly.
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Poyet would do for me. I'd give a manager all the time of the world, if he's to be trusted. The ginger isn't. Simples.
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There needed to be a reaction after Spurs, there wasn't really and the first half against Swansea was awful. There needed to be a reaction after that too and we got the dross of Saturday night. We haven't looked convincing for more than 20 minutes this season. He HAS varied the team selection and for that he deserves credit, but I'd ask whether he buckled under public pressure to play that team and did so without giving any different instruction. I just worry he's out of his depth.
This is a good point and I suspect that there comes a time when players completely lose respect for a manager and the Spurs game may just have been a turning point. Players need a competitive nature to play at the top level and they will have been offended by their manager sending them out to lose, regardless whether or not we regard many of them as mercenaries.
I got the feeling that the player/manager relationship with MON was never the same after our 7-1 hammering at Chelsea. My view of that game was that MON panicked at half time (to which point we had been competitive and were only trailing to a cheap pen) and catastrophically changed our tactics for the worse. Furthermore he was unable to change anything tactically during the second half. Following that defeat there never seemed to be the same level of intensity from the players or MON.
If Mcleish has already lost it with the players he may as well go now as it will only get worse. Some jobs just don't work out whether you want them to or not but I really struggle to see how he can turn this around without the full respect and commitment of the players.
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There's no evidence to suggest he's lost the players that's pure speculation based on what appears to be wishful thinking. It's always trotted out by fans when they want easy answers. It then gets repeated and suddenly it's a fully formed theory.
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There's no evidence to suggest he's lost the players that's pure speculation based on what appears to be wishful thinking. It's always trotted out by fans when they want easy answers. It then gets repeated and suddenly it's a fully formed theory.
There's no evidence to suggest he's lost the players that's pure speculation based on what appears to be wishful thinking. It's always trotted out by fans when they want easy answers. It then gets repeated and suddenly it's a fully formed theory.
Looks like he has started to lose Nzogbia.
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Not according to N'Zogbia's comments today.
“I have spoken to the manager, he has dealt with it and we have no problem. We are in this together, so we just move on. I will work hard to get back in the team.
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There's no evidence to suggest he's lost the players that's pure speculation based on what appears to be wishful thinking. It's always trotted out by fans when they want easy answers. It then gets repeated and suddenly it's a fully formed theory.
Even if he had the full support of the players, he wouldn't be good enough. He was a bad manager at Blues, with a reputation for poor football. And that's what we've ended up with at Villa, as the world and his blind dog could see was going to happen.
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Not according to N'Zogbia's comments today.
“I have spoken to the manager, he has dealt with it and we have no problem. We are in this together, so we just move on. I will work hard to get back in the team.
Fined and dropped for no reason then
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There's no evidence to suggest he's lost the players that's pure speculation based on what appears to be wishful thinking. It's always trotted out by fans when they want easy answers. It then gets repeated and suddenly it's a fully formed theory.
Even if he had the full support of the players, he wouldn't be good enough. He was a bad manager at Blues, with a reputation for poor football. And that's what we've ended up with at Villa, as the world and his blind dog could see was going to happen.
That's the problem, thinking that 14 games is "ended up".
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Not according to N'Zogbia's comments today.
“I have spoken to the manager, he has dealt with it and we have no problem. We are in this together, so we just move on. I will work hard to get back in the team.
Fined and dropped for no reason then
For missing a physio appointment and now it's been dealt with.
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There's no evidence to suggest he's lost the players that's pure speculation based on what appears to be wishful thinking. It's always trotted out by fans when they want easy answers. It then gets repeated and suddenly it's a fully formed theory.
So the players completely ignore his instructions for the Manure game and the Captain can be seen arguing with him. The team are exhibiting exactly the same body language as they did under Houllier and MacAlister. I can't believe that it's a happy place to be at the moment.
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Not according to N'Zogbia's comments today.
“I have spoken to the manager, he has dealt with it and we have no problem. We are in this together, so we just move on. I will work hard to get back in the team.
Fined and dropped for no reason then
For missing a physio appointment and now it's been dealt with.
Come on Chris, there's more to this. Nzogbia has stunk the place out and been played out of position. Manager wants him fit and desperately wants to have him available, player has more important things to do. And this is a Macliesh signing
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There's no evidence to suggest he's lost the players that's pure speculation based on what appears to be wishful thinking. It's always trotted out by fans when they want easy answers. It then gets repeated and suddenly it's a fully formed theory.
So the players completely ignore his instructions for the Manure game and the Captain can be seen arguing with him. The team are exhibiting exactly the same body language as they did under Houllier and MacAlister. I can't believe that it's a happy place to be at the moment.
As I said, speculation. Under Houllier there were all sorts of stories in the press about players being unhappy but there has been nothing of the sort this season.
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There's no evidence to suggest he's lost the players that's pure speculation based on what appears to be wishful thinking. It's always trotted out by fans when they want easy answers. It then gets repeated and suddenly it's a fully formed theory.
In a way, it would kind of be a good thing if he HAD lost the players as it would suggest that the problem could be fixed. With Houllier there was "hope" that once the perceived bad eggs were removed then the club could move forward. If this is how they approach matches when they're backing McLeish and following his orders then the future is definitely not bright.
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The quote about us one day beating Manure as though we are Stockport County, pretty much sums up the managers mind set of inferiority that is taken onto the pitch by the players.
No, as though we are Aston Villa who haven't beaten them at Villa Park since 1996 hence why he was asked about it.
And we beat them at Old Trafford just the other season. It may feel like that was fifteen years ago too but it wasn't. It showed that it could be done. Christ we got a draw against them last season with a squad ravaged by injury.
Moving on, it is really quite distressing. Usually, journalists and pundits are the first to demonise supporters for complaining about and having problems with their manager, yet, they are criticising him rather than us. When a team rocks up playing negative football you get a lot of negativity and hatred about them from neutrals and rival supporters (a bit like the almost Albion-esque sour grapes we see on here about Stoke). However, speaking to neutrals they don't feel that hate because we're not even the party poopers that Stoke or Allardyce sides are, who nick points with their alehouse football, we are no threat at all. Rather than that hate all I hear is that they pity us!
I don't think McLeish will be fired. I don't think we will be relegated (I ran the numbers being quite conservative and after our horrible December I have us in 14th). What it will be is grim, dull and downright depressing. I just hope we get points against Stoke and Bolton this month, else things will get really heated towards McLeish and the board.
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I reckon he'll be with us at the end of the season and i reckon we'll finish low but survive relegation. I am worried that if he's still with us next season he'll complete the decline.
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There's no evidence to suggest he's lost the players that's pure speculation based on what appears to be wishful thinking. It's always trotted out by fans when they want easy answers. It then gets repeated and suddenly it's a fully formed theory.
In a way, it would kind of be a good thing if he HAD lost the players as it would suggest that the problem could be fixed. With Houllier there was "hope" that once the perceived bad eggs were removed then the club could move forward. If this is how they approach matches when they're backing McLeish and following his orders then the future is definitely not bright.
Perhaps but all of that could also be down to low confidence. The so called bad eggs have performed pretty well, the problem has been in midfield abd I don't think Herd, Delph, Bannan or Albrighton are likely to be trying to cause trouble.
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I think the defence contribute to the midfield's problems. Far too often the ball sails over the midfield's heads so they have limited opportunity to try and retain possession. I realise that "fact" is a bit of an easy cliche but Herd appears quite keen to take the ball off the defence and I'd imagine Bannan would be too.
With regard to Bannan, does anyone think he is playing a bit too far forward? His game has always been as an attacking MF but I think (at the moment) the attacking areas are a bit too frantic for him. I would be interested to see him playing as a sort of quarterback, playing with the game in front of him and where he'll have a nano second more time. The move worked for Modric. But this will only work if Collins/Dunne's first instinct is to slide a ball to feet.
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There's no evidence to suggest he's lost the players that's pure speculation based on what appears to be wishful thinking. It's always trotted out by fans when they want easy answers. It then gets repeated and suddenly it's a fully formed theory.
In a way, it would kind of be a good thing if he HAD lost the players as it would suggest that the problem could be fixed. With Houllier there was "hope" that once the perceived bad eggs were removed then the club could move forward. If this is how they approach matches when they're backing McLeish and following his orders then the future is definitely not bright.
I do not think he has lost the dressing room, but there are clearly some communication problems between what he wants and what the players are doing on the field, the halftime finger pointing and shoulder shrugging of Dunne demonstrating this.
The only way to alleviate this is to have a massive summer clearout of the ‘bad eggs’ which will not only reduce the wage bill but will also reduce the tension. Of course that the presupposes that AM can be trusted to bring in better replacements for the deadwood that is Dunne, Warnock, Collins, Petrov, Heskey etc. Trusting AM to find adequate replacements is where my niggling doubts begin once more
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Mark Hughes.
My number one choice in the summer. And still is.
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Mine was Martin Jol. They're worse off than us point wise, but i'm sure the football is a lot bloody better.
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Mine was Martin Jol. They're worse off than us point wise, but i'm sure the football is a lot bloody better.
Jol had easy job though all he had to do was carry on doing what you were doing last year. If, for instance, he'd lost Dempsey and Murphy then he'd have more of a job on his hands. That said, there's something likeable about him so I'd have been happy with it.
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Mine was Martin Jol. They're worse off than us point wise, but i'm sure the football is a lot bloody better.
Jol had easy job though all he had to do was carry on doing what you were doing last year. If, for instance, he'd lost Dempsey and Murphy then he'd have more of a job on his hands. That said, there's something likeable about him so I'd have been happy with it.
I think we have to give Martin Jol a little more credit than that. Fulham was playing some pretty sharp football on Monday night. They were calm on the ball, everyone on the field got touches in the build up, and they could create at least a half chance every time up the pitch.
You would think that would be the case for us to. All a manager has to do is go in and get the ball to some quick wingers and feed Bent. They'll score, he'll score.. there will be tons of goals!
Martin Jol has an actual footballing brain. He can conceive an offensive game plan. McLeish has not a clue how to coordinate an offense. He has great character and really wants to prove us wrong. However, his lack of football intuition will ultimately bar him from success at this high level.The fans don't want him Randy and the club can do better, let's change Aston Villa for the good.
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Martin Jol has a likeable Muttley-ish look to him.
Mark Hughes has an annoying Ailsa from Home and Away look.
I know its stupid, but these things are key in my evaluation of managers.
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Martin Jol has a likeable Muttley-ish look to him.
Mark Hughes has an annoying Ailsa from Home and Away look.
I know its stupid, but these things are key in my evaluation of managers.
ha! McLeish is a top bloke, I'm just not sure that he's a top Prem manager.
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I would have Mark Hughes.
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I have reservations about Hughes- chiefly his association with Kia Joorabchin.
But he would have been the obvious choice in the summer.
In fact, someone like him or Moyes would have been the 'safe' choices. Not enough to automatically swell the gates, but competent managers at Prem level. Both can switch between styles of play depending on the situation and both can -if required- operate on a budget and still produce sides that don't make you want to spoon your own eyeballs out.
Who else in our league would have gone for McLeish if they had had a vacancy at around the same time? I don't think there would have been a whole host of clubs beating a path to his door, in all honesty.
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I don't think there would have been another club even considering him to be perfectly honest.
Mcleish himself must have been gobsmacked when he heard of our interest.
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Jol for me, if it were possible. Can't remember/understand why he was ignored.
I enjoyed it when he got into shit at Spuds ( and was fired soon after) for being filmed laughing when the Villa fans were singing 'Happy Birthday dear Tottenham' when we were trouncing them.
In the post match interview he said he laughed because it was good British humour.
His teams play good football, commands respect, he has experience in the Prem and great international contacts.
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I really can't stand Mark Hughes, but I'd have him in a heartbeat over what we're stuck with now.
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The fact Hughes is associated with that gobshite Joorabchian means that few will be interested in his services. That guy is poison.
But I'd still consider taking the chance.
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I'd have Knut Fnarrkkssonn who is doing wonders with B3457 of Torstillervk in the Faroes.
Either him or Jesus Wantsmeforasunbeam, currently top of the Guatemala second division with Deportivo Bighats.
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There's no evidence to suggest he's lost the players that's pure speculation based on what appears to be wishful thinking. It's always trotted out by fans when they want easy answers. It then gets repeated and suddenly it's a fully formed theory.
He hasn't lost the players Chris, he just hasn't found them.
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Get Keegan in.We'll still lose but at least we'll see some attacking
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Get Keegan in.We'll still lose but at least we'll see some attacking
Keegan is defo a short term appointment as he starts off well and then fails miserably
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Get Keegan in.We'll still lose but at least we'll see some attacking
Keegan is defo a short term appointment as he starts off well and then fails miserably
Surely things haven't got that desperate . . . yet?
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Get Keegan in.We'll still lose but at least we'll see some attacking
Keegan is defo a short term appointment as he starts off well and then fails miserably
Surely things haven't got that desperate . . . yet?
lol! I think we would take anyone apart from Mcleish. Is Dr Venglos still alive?
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Get Keegan in.We'll still lose but at least we'll see some attacking
Keegan is defo a short term appointment as he starts off well and then fails miserably
Surely things haven't got that desperate . . . yet?
wouldnt be boring though would it ?
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I just believe that sometimes an appointment is just wrong for a club, and as nice a guy as Mcleish is I don't think he's right for Villa. Watching us play at the moment is actually painful.
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Keegan would be ace. He's got a proven track record of being as great manager, especially as he's never been known as a cheque book manager.
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Keegan would be ace. He's got a proven track record of being as great manager, especially as he's never been known as a cheque book manager.
But he won't be interested and vice versa.
If and it's a big IF he was to be sacked, RL would have to pay him off and while it could be money well spent, I can't see him doing it.
As long as we remain in the Prem., RL will be chuffed.
Proud History.
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Keegan would be ace. He's got a proven track record of being as great manager, especially as he's never been known as a cheque book manager.
The football would be miles better but he'd be out of the door as soon as the going got tough.
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Maybe not Keegan himself, but someone with his enthusiasm and verve is exactly what we could do with.
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(http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac223/kingthing_2010/teletubbies.jpg)
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I really want a Keegan messiah banner.
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Chris Hughton
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Ian Taylor , Andy Townsend and Martin laursen please . Cant be any worse . but there is more of a problem than jsut the manager , the club is a shambles from the top to the players ;(
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I would have Mark Hughes.
Villa have an ethical code when appointing managers, and certainly don't approach managers who intentionally resign to make themselves available for . . . . oh!
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I would have Mark Hughes.
Villa have an ethical code when appointing managers, and certainly don't approach managers who intentionally resign to make themselves available for . . . . oh!
;D Sparky is a winner though and Ferguson hates him.
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ALEX McLEISH has warned his biggest critics that he’s not losing any sleep at Aston Villa.
The Scot has suffered unprecedented criticism, which started even before he walked through the gates of Villa Park at the beginning of this season.
And while he’s managed to silence some, there is still a hard core of fans hell-bent on trying to drive him out.
His biggest sin is that he was in charge of arch-rivals Birmingham, but he also stands accused by some of playing a negative brand of football.
McLeish said: “Failure is monstrous in this job and the margins between success and failure can be miniscule.
“It’s very much a blame culture nowadays and it’s just something that managers have to deal with.
“Everyone can have their say via social networks and radio phone-ins, so there’s no let-up.
“But you just have to deal with it and I’m not having any sleepless nights.”
McLeish revealed he has heeded the advice given to big pal Sir Alex Ferguson by Manchester United legend Sir Matt Busby when Fergie was under fire.
Sir Matt famously told the current United boss that the easiest solution to worrying about criticism was to stop reading it.
And the Villa manager is taking the same approach, trying to blank out any storms circling around him.
McLeish added: “It’s just the way it is, but I prefer to keep my powder dry.
“If you were to listen to and read everything that was being said, you would be walking around with hunched shoulders.
“Obviously you are aware of what is out there, but why listen to it? Why read it? I had good advice.”
He is going nowhere.
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ALEX McLEISH has warned his biggest critics that he’s not losing any sleep at Aston Villa.
The Scot has suffered unprecedented criticism, which started even before he walked through the gates of Villa Park at the beginning of this season.
And while he’s managed to silence some, there is still a hard core of fans hell-bent on trying to drive him out.
His biggest sin is that he was in charge of arch-rivals Birmingham, but he also stands accused by some of playing a negative brand of football.
McLeish said: “Failure is monstrous in this job and the margins between success and failure can be miniscule.
“It’s very much a blame culture nowadays and it’s just something that managers have to deal with.
“Everyone can have their say via social networks and radio phone-ins, so there’s no let-up.
“But you just have to deal with it and I’m not having any sleepless nights.”
McLeish revealed he has heeded the advice given to big pal Sir Alex Ferguson by Manchester United legend Sir Matt Busby when Fergie was under fire.
Sir Matt famously told the current United boss that the easiest solution to worrying about criticism was to stop reading it.
And the Villa manager is taking the same approach, trying to blank out any storms circling around him.
McLeish added: “It’s just the way it is, but I prefer to keep my powder dry.
“If you were to listen to and read everything that was being said, you would be walking around with hunched shoulders.
“Obviously you are aware of what is out there, but why listen to it? Why read it? I had good advice.”
He is going nowhere.
He is going somewhere.
And we are going with him.
That is the problem.
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'Were on the road to nowhere'
Someone should write a song about that
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And while he’s managed to silence some, there is still a hard core of fans hell-bent on trying to drive him out.
His biggest sin is that he was in charge of arch-rivals Birmingham,
This kind of bollocks is really starting to piss me off. F#cking journalists, whys it so difficult to spend a bit of time finding out the truth instead of lazily regurgitating the same old bullshit ?. Aaaaaaaargh.
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And while he’s managed to silence some, there is still a hard core of fans hell-bent on trying to drive him out.
His biggest sin is that he was in charge of arch-rivals Birmingham,
This kind of bollocks is really starting to piss me off. F#cking journalists, whys it so difficult to spend a bit of time finding out the truth instead of lazily regurgitating the same old bullshit ?. Aaaaaaaargh.
It is really annoying. Although since United a lot of press has centred on his negativity.
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Of course managing the Noses has made a difference. ANY other manager would have been cut more slack, would have been given more time before the keyboard warriors turned on him, he has had absolutely zero honeymoon period and I have never known that happen with any other appointment.
That's not to say he was the right choice, just that suggesting it is irrelevant where he came from is niaeve in the extreme.
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ALEX McLEISH has warned his biggest critics that he’s not losing any sleep at Aston Villa.
The Scot has suffered unprecedented criticism, which started even before he walked through the gates of Villa Park at the beginning of this season.
And while he’s managed to silence some, there is still a hard core of fans hell-bent on trying to drive him out.
His biggest sin is that he was in charge of arch-rivals Birmingham, but he also stands accused by some of playing a negative brand of football.
McLeish said: “Failure is monstrous in this job and the margins between success and failure can be miniscule.
“It’s very much a blame culture nowadays and it’s just something that managers have to deal with.
“Everyone can have their say via social networks and radio phone-ins, so there’s no let-up.
“But you just have to deal with it and I’m not having any sleepless nights.”
McLeish revealed he has heeded the advice given to big pal Sir Alex Ferguson by Manchester United legend Sir Matt Busby when Fergie was under fire.
Sir Matt famously told the current United boss that the easiest solution to worrying about criticism was to stop reading it.
And the Villa manager is taking the same approach, trying to blank out any storms circling around him.
McLeish added: “It’s just the way it is, but I prefer to keep my powder dry.
“If you were to listen to and read everything that was being said, you would be walking around with hunched shoulders.
“Obviously you are aware of what is out there, but why listen to it? Why read it? I had good advice.”
He is going nowhere.
He is going somewhere.
And we are going with him.
That is the problem.
Exactly. AM will be sacked before it is too late and receive full compensation for his efforts.
I find AM's quotes now some what different to the ones he used in June on his appointment.
Did he not vow to win Aston Villa fans over? Strange. Pressure must be getting to him.
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(http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac223/kingthing_2010/teletubbies.jpg)
A four man management team? Think of the wages!!!
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Apologies, I haven't looked at this thread for a bit. Kevin Keegan? Piss off.
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I almost just fell off my chair laughing at someones suggestion of Kevin Keegan.
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I never had major issues with Gerard Houllier. Pretty gutted it didn't work out (health wise) for him during his time with us.
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Of course managing the Noses has made a difference. ANY other manager would have been cut more slack, would have been given more time before the keyboard warriors turned on him, he has had absolutely zero honeymoon period and I have never known that happen with any other appointment.
That's not to say he was the right choice, just that suggesting it is irrelevant where he came from is niaeve in the extreme.
Houllier didn't get cut any more slack. Not sure Dolly did either, if we're honest. I think it's just intellectually lazy to assume the SHA connection is the biggest factor in this. It's the crowning turd in the waterpipe, to be sure, but the fact is that if SHA had finished in the top 6 last season, we'd all be panicking a lot less.
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Of course managing the Noses has made a difference. ANY other manager would have been cut more slack, would have been given more time before the keyboard warriors turned on him, he has had absolutely zero honeymoon period and I have never known that happen with any other appointment.
Certainly didn't make any difference to me, and I also wanted us to sign a couple of Blues players in the summer; the connection doesn't bother me one bit. But you're right about the honeymoon period, Chris, which is why the appointment absolutely staggered me in the first place - McLeish is a shorter, er, leish, than probably anybody else would have been. The board must have considered this. In a way, I feel sorry for AM but he has barely any margin for error.
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January is huge. If we're struggling big style and the oppurtunity comes up to sign a player to get us out the shit, like last Jan it'll be interesting to see if RL/PF give AM the oppurtunity to show what he can do with the funds.
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January is huge. If we're struggling big style and the oppurtunity comes up to sign a player to get us out the shit, like last Jan it'll be interesting to see if RL/PF give AM the oppurtunity to show what he can do with the funds.
What? AM has spent money you know.
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January is huge. If we're struggling big style and the oppurtunity comes up to sign a player to get us out the shit, like last Jan it'll be interesting to see if RL/PF give AM the oppurtunity to show what he can do with the funds.
What? AM has spent money you know.
He was replacing players with that money, that's different to buying someone to save our neck.
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January is huge. If we're struggling big style and the oppurtunity comes up to sign a player to get us out the shit, like last Jan it'll be interesting to see if RL/PF give AM the oppurtunity to show what he can do with the funds.
Problem is I'm not confident he would be able to utilise said player effectively.If we're in that much shit come Januaary I'd rather the cash be spent on his compensation
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Of course managing the Noses has made a difference. ANY other manager would have been cut more slack, would have been given more time before the keyboard warriors turned on him, he has had absolutely zero honeymoon period and I have never known that happen with any other appointment.
That's not to say he was the right choice, just that suggesting it is irrelevant where he came from is niaeve in the extreme.
Only stupid people give a stuff that he managed the Blues. Most of the stick from the sensible camp is based purely on the fact that he's a crap manager, who relegated Birmingham twice and plays shit football. We're playing awful football under him, as just about everybody predicted.
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Of course managing the Noses has made a difference. ANY other manager would have been cut more slack, would have been given more time before the keyboard warriors turned on him, he has had absolutely zero honeymoon period and I have never known that happen with any other appointment.
That's not to say he was the right choice, just that suggesting it is irrelevant where he came from is niaeve in the extreme.
Only stupid people give a stuff that he managed the Blues. Most of the stick from the sensible camp is based purely on the fact that he's a crap manager, who relegated Birmingham twice and plays shit football. We're playing awful football under him, as just about everybody predicted.
I'm still yet to hear a decent response from anyone defending McLeish re the style of football we play (obviously, I'm not involving labelling the critics as "keyboard warriors" as much of a decent response here).
I'm sure there are some people who can't let the Blues thing go, but the fact remains, the majority of people don't really care much about that. If we'd nicked an incredibly successful manager from them, we'd have been cock-a-hoop about it.
We haven't, though, we've nicked one who plays terrible unadventurous football, and that's what we're seeing now.
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the reason I didnt want him was , I looked at Blose football , nothing to do with him managing them but the style he played . I gave him my support , but my Mcleish batteries are now running out .
11 wins in the last 52 prem games is serious relegation form . 20% win rate , that is appalling .
He had two wins against top 10 opposition last season , not good enough , we have better players than they did which kind of makes it worse .
I expected more team spirit and a better defence , the team spirit is as bad as GH reign and the defence is not much better and the football has got alot worse .
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Of course managing the Noses has made a difference. ANY other manager would have been cut more slack, would have been given more time before the keyboard warriors turned on him, he has had absolutely zero honeymoon period and I have never known that happen with any other appointment.
That's not to say he was the right choice, just that suggesting it is irrelevant where he came from is niaeve in the extreme.
Only stupid people give a stuff that he managed the Blues. Most of the stick from the sensible camp is based purely on the fact that he's a crap manager, who relegated Birmingham twice and plays shit football. We're playing awful football under him, as just about everybody predicted.
I don't think I've seen you post anything other than that on here. Ever. We could be winning games 10-0, with 30 shots per game and 90% possession and you'd still complain we didn't have 95%, 35 shots and more than 10 goals.
You are the eternal pessimist - this is what Villa does to you. Let it be a warning to all.
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Of course managing the Noses has made a difference. ANY other manager would have been cut more slack, would have been given more time before the keyboard warriors turned on him, he has had absolutely zero honeymoon period and I have never known that happen with any other appointment.
That's not to say he was the right choice, just that suggesting it is irrelevant where he came from is niaeve in the extreme.
Brilliant! Keyboard warriors? Over 26K posts Chris, most of those supporting sh*t managers.
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January is huge. If we're struggling big style and the oppurtunity comes up to sign a player to get us out the shit, like last Jan it'll be interesting to see if RL/PF give AM the oppurtunity to show what he can do with the funds.
What? AM has spent money you know.
He was replacing players with that money, that's different to buying someone to save our neck.
How is it different? There is still a process of identifying the player. The majority of AM's signings have not made the desired impact.
I would rather they fund the new manager.
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Good article about our current plight
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/aston-villa-fc/2011/12/09/is-time-running-out-for-alex-mcleish/
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Good article about our current plight
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/aston-villa-fc/2011/12/09/is-time-running-out-for-alex-mcleish/
Good article. There is definitely no unity at the club.
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I like this
Do not under any circumstances allow James Collins to be in possession of the football. When he is, use an electronic tag or something to zap him into playing the ball 5 yards in any direction to a player that won’t simply lump it into no mans land.
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The 'defence' is that he has only had 14 games, had to sell our best 2 players, plus a numbe of others from the squad, but was not allowed to replace them with anywhere near the same quality and has been tasked with reducing the wage bill ahead of squad development. He's spent a third of the season trying to make a team from players he inherited rather than chose from himself. He identified central midfield as an area that needed attention but has been deprived of using the player he brought in. He's also had to deal with a group of fans determined to ignore any positive aspects of our performances and focus exclusively on our short comings. Amidst all that, despite almost a third of the games being agains top 6 sides, we've held our own in the league and have generally been difficult to beat (other than the Baggies and there were extenuating circumstances there, we've only lost to teams who have lost only 3 games between them all season). We went through a similar period a couple of years ago after Barry left, we didn't get the midfield right until Downing came into the side and Milner switched inside.
Of course, the premature ejaculators might be right and this is as good as it gets but if it was any other manager he'd be given more time to see what he can do when he has the players he wanted.
Just a note about those getting all indignant about the term keyboard warriors, it's just a handy shorthand to identify people on the Internet, no offence intended.
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It is the brand of football that infuriates me the most; I see no visible signs of improvement, in fact, the style has decreased this season from previous years. I do not see it improving in the long term, which will damage our ambitions for the future.
I am worried about youth coming through into this environment, I do not see them procrastinating while their careers past by.
We need to cut this rubbish that McLeish has had no funding. AM has been allowed to sign players and, for the large part, they have not delivered on the pitch for him.
It is not just the manager though. I believe it is time for new direction at board room level. Could we really trust Randy and Paul to appoint another manager?
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Chris, you make some valid points. But over riding it all are his tactics and team selection, they are just not working. Yes, it's only been 14 games, but what I have seen so far does not fill me with optimism, I really hope he does turn it around and stick 2 fingers to all the critics but with his -ve tactics & poor knowledge to break team down / supply attacking options, & poor defence - it's a recipe for trouble.
The board is also to blame, recruiting a manager that has just relegated a team* is not good practice.
*whoever that team was.
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The 'defence' is that he has only had 14 games, had to sell our best 2 players, plus a numbe of others from the squad, but was not allowed to replace them with anywhere near the same quality and has been tasked with reducing the wage bill ahead of squad development. He's spent a third of the season trying to make a team from players he inherited rather than chose from himself. He identified central midfield as an area that needed attention but has been deprived of using the player he brought in. He's also had to deal with a group of fans determined to ignore any positive aspects of our performances and focus exclusively on our short comings. Amidst all that, despite almost a third of the games being agains top 6 sides, we've held our own in the league and have generally been difficult to beat (other than the Baggies and there were extenuating circumstances there, we've only lost to teams who have lost only 3 games between them all season). We went through a similar period a couple of years ago after Barry left, we didn't get the midfield right until Downing came into the side and Milner switched inside.
Of course, the premature ejaculators might be right and this is as good as it gets but if it was any other manager he'd be given more time to see what he can do when he has the players he wanted.
Just a note about those getting all indignant about the term keyboard warriors, it's just a handy shorthand to identify people on the Internet, no offence intended.
I think that you make some very good points in defense of the manager. He at least knew that Young was going and would have been disappointed by the departure of Downing as we all were. So to earn his substantial salary he knew that he would have had to get the best out of the squad of players he had and let's face it, we are hardly short of talent.
There is no doubt that he was dealt a relatively tough hand, but my problem is that we don't even do the basics like passing the ball to each other. The performances this season by any measure have been dreadful and disorganised. I could take negative tactics if there appeared some sort of plan but I just can't see it. I just can't see what he's trying to do. We have enough decent players to fashion a team which can take to the pitch with a plan and execute it. We have enough flair players to win Premiership games comfortably and to at least compete with the more powerful teams. I haven't seen the team display any leadership or bottle this season in fact quite the opposite.
Do the players need to take some responsibility? Yes, but the Manager sets the tone and expectation level for the squad and it's difficult to see what positive impact if any, the Manager has made since his arrival albeit only 14 games. Usually a new Manager can get a little extra out of players when he first arrives but we started out dull this season and it's gone down from there.
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January is huge. If we're struggling big style and the oppurtunity comes up to sign a player to get us out the shit, like last Jan it'll be interesting to see if RL/PF give AM the oppurtunity to show what he can do with the funds.
What? AM has spent money you know.
He was replacing players with that money, that's different to buying someone to save our neck.
How is it different? There is still a process of identifying the player. The majority of AM's signings have not made the desired impact.
I would rather they fund the new manager.
What's the weather like in Venice?
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The 'defence' is that he has only had 14 games, had to sell our best 2 players, plus a numbe of others from the squad, but was not allowed to replace them with anywhere near the same quality and has been tasked with reducing the wage bill ahead of squad development. He's spent a third of the season trying to make a team from players he inherited rather than chose from himself. He identified central midfield as an area that needed attention but has been deprived of using the player he brought in. He's also had to deal with a group of fans determined to ignore any positive aspects of our performances and focus exclusively on our short comings. Amidst all that, despite almost a third of the games being agains top 6 sides, we've held our own in the league and have generally been difficult to beat (other than the Baggies and there were extenuating circumstances there, we've only lost to teams who have lost only 3 games between them all season). We went through a similar period a couple of years ago after Barry left, we didn't get the midfield right until Downing came into the side and Milner switched inside.
Of course, the premature ejaculators might be right and this is as good as it gets but if it was any other manager he'd be given more time to see what he can do when he has the players he wanted.
Just a note about those getting all indignant about the term keyboard warriors, it's just a handy shorthand to identify people on the Internet, no offence intended.
I think that you make some very good points in defense of the manager. He at least knew that Young was going and would have been disappointed by the departure of Downing as we all were. So to earn his substantial salary he knew that he would have had to get the best out of the squad of players he had and let's face it, we are hardly short of talent.
There is no doubt that he was dealt a relatively tough hand, but my problem is that we don't even do the basics like passing the ball to each other. The performances this season by any measure have been dreadful and disorganised. I could take negative tactics if there appeared some sort of plan but I just can't see it. I just can't see what he's trying to do. We have enough decent players to fashion a team which can take to the pitch with a plan and execute it. We have enough flair players to win Premiership games comfortably and to at least compete with the more powerful teams. I haven't seen the team display any leadership or bottle this season in fact quite the opposite.
Do the players need to take some responsibility? Yes, but the Manager sets the tone and expectation level for the squad and it's difficult to see what positive impact if any, the Manager has made since his arrival albeit only 14 games. Usually a new Manager can get a little extra out of players when he first arrives but we started out dull this season and it's gone down from there.
I'm sure Avram Grant and Ian Holloway would have similar problens motivating players.It's probably difficult to respect and gain confidence from a manager whose last season ended in relegation
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Just a note about those getting all indignant about the term keyboard warriors, it's just a handy shorthand to identify people on the Internet, no offence intended.
I'm not getting "all indignant" about it Chris, but you don't seem to be able to manage a post on this subject without that kind of pointless jibe. There's not really much need for it.
It just ends up in the sort of pointless row that got the other thread locked last night.
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The 'defence' is that he has only had 14 games, had to sell our best 2 players, plus a numbe of others from the squad, but was not allowed to replace them with anywhere near the same quality and has been tasked with reducing the wage bill ahead of squad development. He's spent a third of the season trying to make a team from players he inherited rather than chose from himself. He identified central midfield as an area that needed attention but has been deprived of using the player he brought in. He's also had to deal with a group of fans determined to ignore any positive aspects of our performances and focus exclusively on our short comings. Amidst all that, despite almost a third of the games being agains top 6 sides, we've held our own in the league and have generally been difficult to beat (other than the Baggies and there were extenuating circumstances there, we've only lost to teams who have lost only 3 games between them all season). We went through a similar period a couple of years ago after Barry left, we didn't get the midfield right until Downing came into the side and Milner switched inside.
Of course, the premature ejaculators might be right and this is as good as it gets but if it was any other manager he'd be given more time to see what he can do when he has the players he wanted.
Just a note about those getting all indignant about the term keyboard warriors, it's just a handy shorthand to identify people on the Internet, no offence intended.
The elephant in the room that you seem intent on ignoring is that his brand of football is awful to watch, and that whatever squad he inherited, there's no need for continuing with ridiculous decisions like playing Heskey in midfield. The last three displays in particular have been especially wretched, and with the run of games coming up I think even you will struggle to spin anything positive out of them.
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Speaking for myself, I find it hard to disagree with most of the criticism levelled at Mcleish. Not all though, as we do have our very own lunatic fringe. However, it's the conclusions drawn that I think are premature. Results, on a whole, have been OK, but everybody focuses on the style of play. And that overrides any grace he should be given due to the being so early into his tenure, the players we've sold and the lack of funds available.
Is it the Small Heath thing or just the fears his appointment created being realised? A bit of both, probably, but the latter at least has some rational thought behind it.
So I say he can be blamed, but not condemned as a failiure yet.
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The 'defence' is that he has only had 14 games, had to sell our best 2 players, plus a numbe of others from the squad, but was not allowed to replace them with anywhere near the same quality and has been tasked with reducing the wage bill ahead of squad development. He's spent a third of the season trying to make a team from players he inherited rather than chose from himself. He identified central midfield as an area that needed attention but has been deprived of using the player he brought in. He's also had to deal with a group of fans determined to ignore any positive aspects of our performances and focus exclusively on our short comings. Amidst all that, despite almost a third of the games being agains top 6 sides, we've held our own in the league and have generally been difficult to beat (other than the Baggies and there were extenuating circumstances there, we've only lost to teams who have lost only 3 games between them all season). We went through a similar period a couple of years ago after Barry left, we didn't get the midfield right until Downing came into the side and Milner switched inside.
Of course, the premature ejaculators might be right and this is as good as it gets but if it was any other manager he'd be given more time to see what he can do when he has the players he wanted.
Just a note about those getting all indignant about the term keyboard warriors, it's just a handy shorthand to identify people on the Internet, no offence intended.
The elephant in the room that you seem intent on ignoring is that his brand of football is awful to watch, and that whatever squad he inherited, there's no need for continuing with ridiculous decisions like playing Heskey in midfield. The last three displays in particular have been especially wretched, and with the run of games coming up I think even you will struggle to spin anything positive out of them.
This, this and this. Playing Heskey in what appears to be a fairly deep midfield role should be a hanging offence. Especially when the team - whether or not it's at the manager's behest - is playing long ball football.
I take on board all Chris' points in defence of the manager. You have to acknowledge that there is some justification for saying we're all jumping the gun. But it's not black and white, and while Chris isn't completely wrong, neither are the anti-McLeish brigade. After all, we are looking ahead and trying to extrapolate what we think McLeish will do, based on what we have seen so far - and that includes his record at the noses. And the omens aren't exactly auspicious. Appointing any manager is a gamble, you don't know how it will turn out. So you look at the facts, his previous record and judge him on the trajectory of results and performances. We should have seen some sort of improvement by now, but instead things appear to be getting worse. You can't blame people for being worried.
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To my mind the style of play coud just as easily be a personnel issue as anything else. We have tried many different combinations in midfield but none of been a roaring success. I think he was working towards a Petrov, Herd, Jenas combination which, on paper, seems to have the right sort of balance and so that's been scuppered. He's played Heskey but he's also tried Delph, Bannan, Herd and Ireland so to focus on one player is not fair.
There's no getting away from the thought that some of our performances have been very poor, but there have also been periods in games when we've played some good stuff - Blackburn, Wolves, QPR, Newcastle, Sunderland and Norwich off the top of my head.
As I've said umpteen times, but it keeps getting ignored, I'm not arguing that he s definitely going to be a success but that it is too soon to make an INFORMED judgement and that the analysis, from many, is too one sided.
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He was crap at Blues, and he is crap here. The only remote chance he had was to be given a big transfer budget and hope that he signed a decent two or three players. That hasn't happened, and two of the three players he has signed aren't of the level required. There is nothing I can see from either Lerner or McLeish that gives cause for optimism at all. The whole club from top to bottom is an absolute shambles.
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I agree with Risso. The guy is crap and it wont get any better - I hope it does so he can prove all us doubters, wrong! It just wont happen though. My mate who is a hardcore Nose has said to me that we need to get rid of him as it will not get better. Everything he is saying now was said at the sty and look where they ended up? The board got all horny about the fact he won a cup but there was an element of luck involved, I mean, look at the winning goal for god sake!
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He was crap at Blues, and he is crap here. The only remote chance he had was to be given a big transfer budget and hope that he signed a decent two or three players. That hasn't happened, and two of the three players he has signed aren't of the level required. There is nothing I can see from either Lerner or McLeish that gives cause for optimism at all. The whole club from top to bottom is an absolute shambles.
I'm feeling that way, it is the horrendous football that is the killer though. I think I could handle a midtable transitional period, if I believed it was a transition to something positive and we were trying to play in an entertaining way.
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He was crap at Blues, and he is crap here. The only remote chance he had was to be given a big transfer budget and hope that he signed a decent two or three players. That hasn't happened, and two of the three players he has signed aren't of the level required. There is nothing I can see from either Lerner or McLeish that gives cause for optimism at all. The whole club from top to bottom is an absolute shambles.
Spot on
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He was crap at Blues, and he is crap here. The only remote chance he had was to be given a big transfer budget and hope that he signed a decent two or three players. That hasn't happened, and two of the three players he has signed aren't of the level required. There is nothing I can see from either Lerner or McLeish that gives cause for optimism at all. The whole club from top to bottom is an absolute shambles.
This. There is no leadership or clear direction at that club. I have a strong feeling we will be under new ownership by the end of the season.
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I agree with Risso. The guy is crap and it wont get any better - I hope it does so he can prove all us doubters, wrong! It just wont happen though. My mate who is a hardcore Nose has said to me that we need to get rid of him as it will not get better. Everything he is saying now was said at the sty and look where they ended up? The board got all horny about the fact he won a cup but there was an element of luck involved, I mean, look at the winning goal for god sake!
They beat us to get there though, even though we had Gerard "he had a plan" Houllier in charge.
What really makes me laugh is that there are people who are slating him now tat when they were doing the same to MON 18 months ago were suggesting that McLeish was the better manager. It was a constant argument on here tat he'd done better in Scotland and that getting Blues to 9th was a major achievement. Now all we get is he was crap at both clubs.
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He was crap at Blues, and he is crap here. The only remote chance he had was to be given a big transfer budget and hope that he signed a decent two or three players. That hasn't happened, and two of the three players he has signed aren't of the level required. There is nothing I can see from either Lerner or McLeish that gives cause for optimism at all. The whole club from top to bottom is an absolute shambles.
This. There is no leadership or clear direction at that club. I have a strong feeling we will be under new ownership by the end of the season.
What do you base that on? It's only a couple of weeks since Lerner gave an interview to say he was still as committed as ever and still ambitious. What has given rise you your 'feeling' to the contrary?
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This. There is no leadership or clear direction at that club. I have a strong feeling we will be under new ownership by the end of the season.
I feel there is a sale/takeover on the cards hence the cost cutting measures just like when Doug was looking to sell up
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I think if RL had a decent offer (I don't know what that would be) he would gladly walk.
The Browns fans hate him and he's spunked a load of money on us and got nothing back. He hasn't got the resources to keep chucking money at us so IMO he would gladly cut his losses given half a chance
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This. There is no leadership or clear direction at that club. I have a strong feeling we will be under new ownership by the end of the season.
I feel there is a sale/takeover on the cards hence the cost cutting measures just like when Doug was looking to sell up
Yes. PF's interview did rule out Randy was looking to sale, but PF did not answer the question about interest in the club.
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Am i right in thinking he paid somewhere in the region of £63m? Im sure the club is valued much higher than that now so he would get some return on his investment
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Am i right in thinking he paid somewhere in the region of £63m? Im sure the club is valued much higher than that now so he would get some return on his investment
you've got to also factor in that we have been operating at a loss for his tenure so he's entitled to want the additional cash that he has invested too. Regardless, I think he should just about break even which considering some of the decision making and the luck he had could be a satisfactory return.
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What do you base that on? It's only a couple of weeks since Lerner gave an interview to say he was still as committed as ever and still ambitious. What has given rise you your 'feeling' to the contrary?
I don't know about you Chris, but I tend to take statements from the club with a pinch of salt these days. We've had The General with his "Imagine what McLeish will be able to do with Lerner's super backing!" and Faulkner's "We're still aiming for Europe!" followed by McLeish's "Erm, just a second, are we....?"
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Am i right in thinking he paid somewhere in the region of £63m? Im sure the club is valued much higher than that now so he would get some return on his investment
you've got to also factor in that we have been operating at a loss for his tenure so he's entitled to want the additional cash that he has invested too. Regardless, I think he should just about break even which considering some of the decision making and the luck he had could be a satisfactory return.
A lot of mixed messages and no clear vision. What has happened to the North Stand redevelopment? Why suddenly a stop in ambition? Why appoint AM? Loads of questions.
I expect us to be under new ownership within 2012; I just hope the new owner will get us back in the right direction.
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They always said that the North Stand development would happen when the demand was there. Crowds have fallen for 3 years in a row, there's little point extending when we can't fill it as it is. Perhaps if more people had turned up when they were still spending we wouldn't have seen the change of direction.
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Randy made a mistake with Mcliesh, but i still havent given up on him yet.
there is a whole lot worse out there, just look across the road,
anyway i still think Randy's heart is in the right place, and to be honest for every Man City/Chelsea type owner there is more than a few Portsmouth/Blues owners
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Pretty much sums up my stance john e.
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For manager I would want someone who manage in two different country in europe (Scotland don't count) and Champions League experience with top team. We need someone who understand how to play football and what is needed to be top 3/4 teams. We haven't played beautiful and winning football for very very long time. I hate those managers who fear losing.
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Alex McLeish reckons his Aston Villa side are too quiet and wants them to be noisier and more aggressive - with one another!
Villa are yet to win away this season in the Premier League and face a tough run of festive fixtures, starting on Saturday at lowly Bolton.
The Brummies have conceded last-minute goals at Sunderland and QPR this term to turn winning positions into draws.
And boss McLeish said: “I want fists clenched in the last minutes and mental resilience saying, ‘We are not conceding here!’
“We are quite a quiet team. I would like to see more of a fieriness about us when we get to those situations - a wee bit of body language at Sunderland to say, 'We are defending this with our lives.'
“I want a siege mentality in the box and the same with the QPR last-minute equaliser.
“It has to be down to the character of the players. Players have to be prepared to fall out with people on the training field and the pitch.
“They are as quiet a bunch as I have worked with, and we are trying to get them to come out of their shells a little bit.
“The one thing that is difficult to get 100 per cent right is the mind of players.”
Why does he keep referring to an aggressive style, I do not want us to be a dirty team.
He never speaks of plans to improve the technical side of our game, only the defense matters to AM. Expect a brick wall against Bolton then >:(.
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And now McLeish reckons he isn't a negative manager, and that if the fans considered the facts they'd see that his teams do indeed play entertaining football. The poor, deluded fool.
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And now McLeish reckons he isn't a negative manager, and that if the fans considered the facts they'd see that his teams do indeed play entertaining football. The poor, deluded fool.
So now he's criticising the fans for questioning his tactics and abilities.
It's starting to look like Uncle Woy at Liverpool. McLeish is not necessarily a crap manager, but first and foremostly the wrong person at the wrong club at the wrong time.
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He absolutely is a crap manager though.
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Ok, I was just trying to appear balanced and reasonable, but I'll admit: he's pretty crap.
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Hands up who thought it was better under O Leary? I'll be honest my hand is beginning to creep up, worryingly so, of its own free will. If McLeish starts moaning about us already, he's fucked. At least O Leary had a decent first season (in fairness, from xmas onwards that year) and we played some reasonable stuff when we got Solano.
I'll also half expect us to have another Doncaster horror this season when we play Bristol Rovers in the cup.
The worst part is, after all the money invested in managers, I just don't see Randy paying to fuck McLeish off, then forking out to hire someone else. We're stuck with this wretched brand of clueless, dull as dishwater, football. And our easy start grace has worn off. Easy starts, mean tougher run-ins, and if we start on a run of defeats, we could find ourselve staring into the Championship trap door. (Just got the Trap Door theme in my head!)
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This is how it always happens. People have decided they don't like him so everything is then twisted and ridiculous conclusions drawn. He is absolutely right to emphasise the need for more character from the players and that a siege mentality in the last couple of minutes at QPR and Sunderland (let's not forget that we were in front due to playing some decent attacking football) would have made a huge difference. That's 4 more points we'd have if they'd been more resilient.
Similarly he's not criticising fans he's giving a different point of view and it really does take the biscuit for people who gave spent weeks slagging him at every opportunity to become all precious about him responding.
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Hands up who thought it was better under O Leary? I'll be honest my hand is beginning to creep up, worryingly so, of its own free will. If McLeish starts moaning about us already, he's fucked. At least O Leary had a decent first season (in fairness, from xmas onwards that year) and we played some reasonable stuff when we got Solano.
I'll also half expect us to have another Doncaster horror this season when we play Bristol Rovers in the cup.
The worst part is, after all the money invested in managers, I just don't see Randy paying to fuck McLeish off, then forking out to hire someone else. We're stuck with this wretched brand of clueless, dull as dishwater, football. And our easy start grace has worn off. Easy starts, mean tougher run-ins, and if we start on a run of defeats, we could find ourselve staring into the Championship trap door. (Just got the Trap Door theme in my head!)
as much as i think AM is a big mistake, its hard not to like him as a person, whereas it was piss easy with DOL,
the other difference is that i think Mcliesh does care about the club, O'leary didnt give a toss and just hung around for another big payout,
AM is at least trying his best, his best just isnt any where near good enough
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This is how it always happens. People have decided they don't like him so everything is then twisted and ridiculous conclusions drawn. He is absolutely right to emphasise the need for more character from the players and that a siege mentality in the last couple of minutes at QPR and Sunderland (let's not forget that we were in front due to playing some decent attacking football) would have made a huge difference. That's 4 more points we'd have if they'd been more resilient.
Similarly he's not criticising fans he's giving a different point of view and it really does take the biscuit for people who gave spent weeks slagging him at every opportunity to become all precious about him responding.
What on earth are you blathering on about? Nobody's being precious about anything, just pointing out that he isn't an entertaining manager, and that if we do indeed look at the facts as he suggests, they do absolutely nothing to back his claim up. His Blues team last year were a disgrace, and we're not much better.
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This is how it always happens. People have decided they don't like him so everything is then twisted and ridiculous conclusions drawn.
You can only get so enthusiastic about a manager with a recent relegation on his CV. The players at his disposal at Blues last season weren't world beaters, but not worse than those at Wigan or Wolves. Add to the relegation that his team probably was the least entertaining in the whole Premiership.
I'll admit that I have been worried about this appointment all along. Though he worked under difficult conditions at Blues, relegation and dreadful football wasn't an inevitable outcome. So his reputation of being able to get the best out of what he has got seemed unfounded. Maybe that equates to deciding that I don't like him.
Since the start the results have been disappointing (3 wins isn't good enough considering the easy start we've had), and the performances ranging from the unspiring to the truly dreadful with very small spells of decent football inbetween. I could have lived with that. What makes me join the ranks of 'keyboard warriors' (and argue that those who claim that Houllier was just as bad are wrong) is that it's becoming obvious that he has no idea what he can do and what he wants to do with the players that he has got. He sends out a seemingly random team with a gameplan they're unable to implement, or perhaps with no gameplan at all. My fear is that we have a manager who doesn't know what he is doing.
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Now all we get is he was crap at both clubs.
Correct. It is like listening to a load of parrots.
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This is how it always happens. People have decided they don't like him so everything is then twisted and ridiculous conclusions drawn. He is absolutely right to emphasise the need for more character from the players and that a siege mentality in the last couple of minutes at QPR and Sunderland (let's not forget that we were in front due to playing some decent attacking football) would have made a huge difference. That's 4 more points we'd have if they'd been more resilient.
Similarly he's not criticising fans he's giving a different point of view and it really does take the biscuit for people who gave spent weeks slagging him at every opportunity to become all precious about him responding.
What on earth are you blathering on about? Nobody's being precious about anything, just pointing out that he isn't an entertaining manager, and that if we do indeed look at the facts as he suggests, they do absolutely nothing to back his claim up. His Blues team last year were a disgrace, and we're not much better.
The quote above about "criticising the fans"' which is a distortion of his comments.
You're a bit grumpy this morning, I'm guessing it was a good do last night.
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From the Express and Star
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/aston-villa-fc/2011/12/10/alex-mcleish-my-tactics-are-not-negative/
From the official matchday programme
v sunderland shots on target 5 off 5 corners 6 41% possesion goals 2
v qpr shots on target 8 off 4 corners 8 46% possesion goals 1
v man c shots on target 6 off 2 corners 1 46% possesion goals 1
v swansea shots on target 4 off 5 corners 6 45% possesion goals 0
v spurs shots on target 1 off 4 corners 3 41% possesion goals 0
v man u shots on target 1 etc goals 0
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You can only get so enthusiastic about a manager with a recent relegation on his CV. The players at his disposal at Blues last season weren't world beaters, but not worse than those at Wigan or Wolves. Add to the relegation that his team probably was the least entertaining in the whole Premiership.
How do you think those other clubs would have contended with a cup win to distract them? My Nose mates say the cup run and losing Dann meant they ran out of steam and didn't have the squad depth to be able to change things around. All of them, however, said that it was a price worth paying for their first major trophy. You also have to factor in what a shambles they were off the pitch.
They do agree about a lot of the football played, some entirely blame the manager others say it wasn't all bad and that he hat to cut his cloth accordingly.
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The club and fans need to pull together, particularly in times of adversity. McLeish may have not been anybodys first choice as manager but he was Randy's, and neither of them are going anywhere soon so we have to stay as one. We've had a mixed season so far but surely it was unrealistic to expect anything else given the transfer policy in the summer. Despite the discontent, we're tenth and far from being in crisis. Back the boys, back the club.
If we lose to Bolton however, I reserve the right to edit this post! >:(
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The problem though Dick is to back them when you feel ashamed of them.
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Not happy with Mcleish but we have got to stay united. Blackburn have showed going against your manager whatever the result does not work and merely gives the press more shit to shovel ......
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He absolutely is a crap manager though.
That is bollocks.
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Ok, I was just trying to appear balanced and reasonable, but I'll admit: he's pretty crap.
Bandwagon here you come.
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Not happy with Mcleish but we have got to stay united. Blackburn have showed going against your manager whatever the result does not work and merely gives the press more shit to shovel ......
There is no justification for going against McLeish. He has passion for the club and deserves success. Todays performance showed the players are working for him.
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He absolutely is a crap manager though.
That is bollocks.
Is it really? Another win against a crap team doesn't change the fact that he's a bad manager.
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Ok, I was just trying to appear balanced and reasonable, but I'll admit: he's pretty crap.
Bandwagon here you come.
Sigh.
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He absolutely is a crap manager though.
That is bollocks.
Is it really? Another win against a crap team doesn't change the fact that he's a bad manager.
Patience isn't your strength is it Martin?
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What's to be patient about? Is there any sign that Lerner and McLeish are suddenly going to stop being the complete opposite of a dream combination?
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He absolutely is a crap manager though.
That is bollocks.
4 wins in 15? That is a dismal record.
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I reckon a couple of us off here could do it. In fact I reckon I would make a good number 2. Need a number 1, and we will be well away, although I may be urging wheeling and dealing on a Barry Fry scale.
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Still a lot to prove.
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Yes we won but Bolton were poor and we still made hard work of it. He still has a lot to do for me
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He absolutely is a crap manager though.
That is bollocks.
Is it really? Another win against a crap team doesn't change the fact that he's a bad manager.
Some of us like to think good about our people. That is why we love our days out with the club and its supporters.
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Ok, I was just trying to appear balanced and reasonable, but I'll admit: he's pretty crap.
Bandwagon here you come.
Sigh.
Just what I thought.
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Ok, I was just trying to appear balanced and reasonable, but I'll admit: he's pretty crap.
Bandwagon here you come.
Sigh.
Just what I thought.
Whilst I agree that there are some who have been totally over the top and have said they would prefer losses if it means the manager is gone. To come on here after we have beaten the current worst team in the league to gloat over a win and have ago at people like Eigentor seems to be the exact extremism you are moaning at others about.
For someone who spends £1000's and lots of time going to every match in a season, I would have thought you would want some value for your spend. Personally going on past records for Alex, you will have to endure more matches like Spurs, Manure and QPR first half then Bolton first half and Norwich. I hope to be proved wrong for the good of the club but I can't see it.
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He absolutely is a crap manager though.
That is bollocks.
Is it really? Another win against a crap team doesn't change the fact that he's a bad manager.
Some of us like to think good about our people. That is why we love our days out with the club and its supporters.
Good for you, nobody's trying to stop you.
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Some of us like to think good about our people. That is why we love our days out with the club and its supporters.
And some people would like the club to have some ambition.