If McLeish was sacked, who would you want in?

[Iago]

January is huge. If we're struggling big style and the oppurtunity comes up to sign a player to get us out the shit, like last Jan it'll be interesting to see if RL/PF give AM the oppurtunity to show what he can do with the funds.

What? AM has spent money you know.

He was replacing players with that money, that's different to buying someone to save our neck.

How is it different? There is still a process of identifying the player. The majority of AM's signings have not made the desired impact.

I would rather they fund the new manager.

[VillaAlways]

Good article about our current plight
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/aston-villa-fc/2011/12/09/is-time-running-out-for-alex-mcleish/

[Iago]

Good article about our current plight
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/aston-villa-fc/2011/12/09/is-time-running-out-for-alex-mcleish/

Good article. There is definitely no unity at the club.

[JUAN PABLO]

I like this

Do not under any circumstances allow James Collins to be in possession of the football. When he is, use an electronic tag or something to zap him into playing the ball 5 yards in any direction to a player that won’t simply lump it into no mans land.

[Chris Smith]

The 'defence' is that he has only had 14 games, had to sell our best 2 players, plus a numbe of others from the squad, but was not allowed to replace them with anywhere near the same quality and has been tasked with reducing the wage bill ahead of squad development. He's spent a third of the season trying to make a team from players he inherited rather than chose from himself. He identified central midfield as an area that needed attention but has been deprived of using the player he brought in. He's also had to deal with a group of fans determined to ignore any positive aspects of our performances and focus exclusively on our short comings. Amidst all that, despite almost a third of the games being agains top 6 sides, we've held our own in the league and have generally been difficult to beat (other than the Baggies and there were extenuating circumstances there, we've only lost to teams who have lost only 3 games between them all season). We went through a similar period a couple of years ago after Barry left, we didn't get the midfield right until Downing came into the side and Milner switched inside.

Of course, the premature ejaculators might be right and this is as good as it gets but if it was any other manager he'd be given more time to see what he can do when he has the players he wanted.

Just a note about those getting all indignant about the term keyboard warriors, it's just a handy shorthand to identify people on the Internet, no offence intended. 

[Iago]

It is the brand of football that infuriates me the most; I see no visible signs of improvement, in fact, the style has decreased this season from previous years. I do not see it improving in the long term, which will damage our ambitions for the future.

I am worried about youth coming through into this environment, I do not see them procrastinating while their careers past by.

We need to cut this rubbish that McLeish has had no funding. AM has been allowed to sign players and, for the large part, they have not delivered on the pitch for him.

It is not just the manager though. I believe it is time for new direction at board room level. Could we really trust Randy and Paul to appoint another manager?

[DB]

Chris, you make some valid points. But over riding it all are his tactics and team selection, they are just not working. Yes, it's only been 14 games, but what I have seen so far does not fill me with optimism, I really hope he does turn it around and stick 2 fingers to all the critics but with his -ve tactics & poor knowledge to break team down / supply attacking options, & poor defence - it's a recipe for trouble.

The board is also to blame, recruiting a manager that has just relegated a team* is not good practice.
*whoever that team was.

[jembob]

The 'defence' is that he has only had 14 games, had to sell our best 2 players, plus a numbe of others from the squad, but was not allowed to replace them with anywhere near the same quality and has been tasked with reducing the wage bill ahead of squad development. He's spent a third of the season trying to make a team from players he inherited rather than chose from himself. He identified central midfield as an area that needed attention but has been deprived of using the player he brought in. He's also had to deal with a group of fans determined to ignore any positive aspects of our performances and focus exclusively on our short comings. Amidst all that, despite almost a third of the games being agains top 6 sides, we've held our own in the league and have generally been difficult to beat (other than the Baggies and there were extenuating circumstances there, we've only lost to teams who have lost only 3 games between them all season). We went through a similar period a couple of years ago after Barry left, we didn't get the midfield right until Downing came into the side and Milner switched inside.

Of course, the premature ejaculators might be right and this is as good as it gets but if it was any other manager he'd be given more time to see what he can do when he has the players he wanted.

Just a note about those getting all indignant about the term keyboard warriors, it's just a handy shorthand to identify people on the Internet, no offence intended. 

I think that you make some very good points in defense of the manager. He at least knew that Young was going and would have been disappointed by the departure of Downing as we all were. So to earn his substantial salary he knew that he would have had to get the best out of the squad of players he had and let's face it, we are hardly short of talent.

There is no doubt that he was dealt a relatively tough hand, but my problem is that we don't even do the basics like passing the ball to each other. The performances this season by any measure have been dreadful and disorganised. I could take negative tactics if there appeared some sort of plan but I just can't see it. I just can't see what he's trying to do. We have enough decent players to fashion a team which can take to the pitch with a plan and execute it. We have enough flair players to win Premiership games comfortably and to at least compete with the more powerful teams. I haven't seen the team display any leadership or bottle this season in fact quite the opposite.

Do the players need to take some responsibility? Yes, but the Manager sets the tone and expectation level for the squad and it's difficult to see what positive impact if any, the Manager has made since his arrival albeit only 14 games. Usually a new Manager can get a little extra out of players when he first arrives but we started out dull this season and it's gone down from there.

[PaulTheVillan]

January is huge. If we're struggling big style and the oppurtunity comes up to sign a player to get us out the shit, like last Jan it'll be interesting to see if RL/PF give AM the oppurtunity to show what he can do with the funds.

What? AM has spent money you know.

He was replacing players with that money, that's different to buying someone to save our neck.

How is it different? There is still a process of identifying the player. The majority of AM's signings have not made the desired impact.

I would rather they fund the new manager.

What's the weather like in Venice?

[VillaAlways]

The 'defence' is that he has only had 14 games, had to sell our best 2 players, plus a numbe of others from the squad, but was not allowed to replace them with anywhere near the same quality and has been tasked with reducing the wage bill ahead of squad development. He's spent a third of the season trying to make a team from players he inherited rather than chose from himself. He identified central midfield as an area that needed attention but has been deprived of using the player he brought in. He's also had to deal with a group of fans determined to ignore any positive aspects of our performances and focus exclusively on our short comings. Amidst all that, despite almost a third of the games being agains top 6 sides, we've held our own in the league and have generally been difficult to beat (other than the Baggies and there were extenuating circumstances there, we've only lost to teams who have lost only 3 games between them all season). We went through a similar period a couple of years ago after Barry left, we didn't get the midfield right until Downing came into the side and Milner switched inside.

Of course, the premature ejaculators might be right and this is as good as it gets but if it was any other manager he'd be given more time to see what he can do when he has the players he wanted.

Just a note about those getting all indignant about the term keyboard warriors, it's just a handy shorthand to identify people on the Internet, no offence intended. 

I think that you make some very good points in defense of the manager. He at least knew that Young was going and would have been disappointed by the departure of Downing as we all were. So to earn his substantial salary he knew that he would have had to get the best out of the squad of players he had and let's face it, we are hardly short of talent.

There is no doubt that he was dealt a relatively tough hand, but my problem is that we don't even do the basics like passing the ball to each other. The performances this season by any measure have been dreadful and disorganised. I could take negative tactics if there appeared some sort of plan but I just can't see it. I just can't see what he's trying to do. We have enough decent players to fashion a team which can take to the pitch with a plan and execute it. We have enough flair players to win Premiership games comfortably and to at least compete with the more powerful teams. I haven't seen the team display any leadership or bottle this season in fact quite the opposite.

Do the players need to take some responsibility? Yes, but the Manager sets the tone and expectation level for the squad and it's difficult to see what positive impact if any, the Manager has made since his arrival albeit only 14 games. Usually a new Manager can get a little extra out of players when he first arrives but we started out dull this season and it's gone down from there.

I'm sure Avram Grant and Ian Holloway would have similar problens motivating players.It's probably difficult to respect and gain confidence from a manager whose last season ended in relegation

[pauliewalnuts]

Just a note about those getting all indignant about the term keyboard warriors, it's just a handy shorthand to identify people on the Internet, no offence intended. 

I'm not getting "all indignant" about it Chris, but you don't seem to be able to manage a post on this subject without that kind of pointless jibe. There's not really much need for it.

It just ends up in the sort of pointless row that got the other thread locked last night.

[Risso]

The 'defence' is that he has only had 14 games, had to sell our best 2 players, plus a numbe of others from the squad, but was not allowed to replace them with anywhere near the same quality and has been tasked with reducing the wage bill ahead of squad development. He's spent a third of the season trying to make a team from players he inherited rather than chose from himself. He identified central midfield as an area that needed attention but has been deprived of using the player he brought in. He's also had to deal with a group of fans determined to ignore any positive aspects of our performances and focus exclusively on our short comings. Amidst all that, despite almost a third of the games being agains top 6 sides, we've held our own in the league and have generally been difficult to beat (other than the Baggies and there were extenuating circumstances there, we've only lost to teams who have lost only 3 games between them all season). We went through a similar period a couple of years ago after Barry left, we didn't get the midfield right until Downing came into the side and Milner switched inside.

Of course, the premature ejaculators might be right and this is as good as it gets but if it was any other manager he'd be given more time to see what he can do when he has the players he wanted.

Just a note about those getting all indignant about the term keyboard warriors, it's just a handy shorthand to identify people on the Internet, no offence intended. 

The elephant in the room that you seem intent on ignoring is that his brand of football is awful to watch, and that whatever squad he inherited, there's no need for continuing with ridiculous decisions like playing Heskey in midfield.  The last three displays in particular have been especially wretched, and with the run of games coming up I think even you will struggle to spin anything positive out of them.

[Concrete John]

Speaking for myself, I find it hard to disagree with most of the criticism levelled at Mcleish.  Not all though, as we do have our very own lunatic fringe.  However, it's the conclusions drawn that I think are premature.  Results, on a whole, have been OK, but everybody focuses on the style of play.  And that overrides any grace he should be given due to the being so early into his tenure, the players we've sold and the lack of funds available.     

Is it the Small Heath thing or just the fears his appointment created being realised?  A bit of both, probably, but the latter at least has some rational thought behind it.

So I say he can be blamed, but not condemned as a failiure yet. 

[SamTheMouse]

The 'defence' is that he has only had 14 games, had to sell our best 2 players, plus a numbe of others from the squad, but was not allowed to replace them with anywhere near the same quality and has been tasked with reducing the wage bill ahead of squad development. He's spent a third of the season trying to make a team from players he inherited rather than chose from himself. He identified central midfield as an area that needed attention but has been deprived of using the player he brought in. He's also had to deal with a group of fans determined to ignore any positive aspects of our performances and focus exclusively on our short comings. Amidst all that, despite almost a third of the games being agains top 6 sides, we've held our own in the league and have generally been difficult to beat (other than the Baggies and there were extenuating circumstances there, we've only lost to teams who have lost only 3 games between them all season). We went through a similar period a couple of years ago after Barry left, we didn't get the midfield right until Downing came into the side and Milner switched inside.

Of course, the premature ejaculators might be right and this is as good as it gets but if it was any other manager he'd be given more time to see what he can do when he has the players he wanted.

Just a note about those getting all indignant about the term keyboard warriors, it's just a handy shorthand to identify people on the Internet, no offence intended. 

The elephant in the room that you seem intent on ignoring is that his brand of football is awful to watch, and that whatever squad he inherited, there's no need for continuing with ridiculous decisions like playing Heskey in midfield.  The last three displays in particular have been especially wretched, and with the run of games coming up I think even you will struggle to spin anything positive out of them.

This, this and this. Playing Heskey in what appears to be a fairly deep midfield role should be a hanging offence. Especially when the team - whether or not it's at the manager's behest - is playing long ball football.

I take on board all Chris' points in defence of the manager. You have to acknowledge that there is some justification for saying we're all jumping the gun. But it's not black and white, and while Chris isn't completely wrong, neither are the anti-McLeish brigade. After all, we are looking ahead and trying to extrapolate what we think McLeish will do, based on what we have seen so far - and that includes his record at the noses. And the omens aren't exactly auspicious. Appointing any manager is a gamble, you don't know how it will turn out. So you look at the facts, his previous record and judge him on the trajectory of results and performances. We should have seen some sort of improvement by now, but instead things appear to be getting worse. You can't blame people for being worried.

[Chris Smith]

To my mind the style of play coud just as easily be a personnel issue as anything else. We have tried many different combinations in midfield but none of been a roaring success. I think he was working towards a Petrov, Herd, Jenas combination which, on paper, seems to have the right sort of balance and so that's been scuppered. He's played Heskey but he's also tried Delph, Bannan, Herd and Ireland so to focus on one player is not fair.

There's no getting away from the thought that some of our performances have been very poor, but there have also been periods in games when we've played some good stuff - Blackburn, Wolves, QPR, Newcastle, Sunderland and Norwich off the top of my head.

As I've said umpteen times, but it keeps getting ignored, I'm not arguing that he s definitely going to be a success but that it is too soon to make an INFORMED judgement and that the analysis, from many, is too one sided.