Thomas Bramall

[edgysatsuma89]

God, don't suggest that to Crown Hill/jon, he hates it enough already when Attwell is reffing.

[Somniloquism]

Maybe this will sound naive, but I don’t really buy this “he’s a fan of X so he shouldn’t be officiating a certain match” argument. Pretty much everyone who follows the game grows up supporting someone. When they become professionals in the game those things get put to the side. My old schoolmate Mark Harrison as an example was hardcore Bluenose. But now he works for us I’m sure he’s dedicated to doing the best for Villa. I know it’s a lot more sensitive and public as a match official, but I still believe all of them would do the right thing by the job versus who they might have supported or do.

But it is the perception. You already get fans shouting "corrupt" at the drop of a hat (see "coventry fan Attwell"). If Oliver had reffed our game and just after Newcastle start losing the same decision is made with the same outcomes, you don't think him being a Newcastle fan would be raised? It isn't really a problem earlier in the season but would definitely have been with the stakes in the last few matches.

[LeeB]

Surely the answer is just to abduct children from disadvantaged parents at birth and raise them in a mountain top monastery, with no exposure to any outside influences and educated only in pure refereeing. David Ellery can be their living god.

[Ads]

I don't blame him for getting the decision wrong,  because in real time and in any normal situation from where he was, that looks like a foul.

He blew too early, because he was confident in what he saw. He was wrong, it's costly, but he's a young guy in a very tough moment. It shouldn't ruin his career, he was put in by Webb and PGMOL, and that's where the real criticism should lay. That bunch of incompetents.

Stood further away in the away end in 233 and it looked like a fucking disgraceful decision.

[PeterWithesShin]

Maybe this will sound naive, but I don’t really buy this “he’s a fan of X so he shouldn’t be officiating a certain match” argument. Pretty much everyone who follows the game grows up supporting someone. When they become professionals in the game those things get put to the side. My old schoolmate Mark Harrison as an example was hardcore Bluenose. But now he works for us I’m sure he’s dedicated to doing the best for Villa. I know it’s a lot more sensitive and public as a match official, but I still believe all of them would do the right thing by the job versus who they might have supported or do.

You'd certainly hope they'd be able to at least set it aside.

They probably can, but imagine the reaction if a ref that was a Newcastle fan had blown the whistle. It's to eliminate potential claims of a deliberate fuck up rather than it just being a fuck up.

[paul_e]

Maybe this will sound naive, but I don’t really buy this “he’s a fan of X so he shouldn’t be officiating a certain match” argument. Pretty much everyone who follows the game grows up supporting someone. When they become professionals in the game those things get put to the side. My old schoolmate Mark Harrison as an example was hardcore Bluenose. But now he works for us I’m sure he’s dedicated to doing the best for Villa. I know it’s a lot more sensitive and public as a match official, but I still believe all of them would do the right thing by the job versus who they might have supported or do.

You'd certainly hope they'd be able to at least set it aside.

They probably can, but imagine the reaction if a ref that was a Newcastle fan had blown the whistle. It's to eliminate potential claims of a deliberate fuck up rather than it just being a fuck up.

Of course, and that's obviously why they try to avoid clashes, but I think most of the time it's a topic more in fans minds than in reality. The impact of certain home crowds on the ref is a far bigger issue, with the number of incorrect or arguable decisions in favour of Arsenal, Newcastle, Liverpool and Man Utd (in particular) a genuine talking point. This is where the 'they even out over the season' is clearly bullshit.

[AllanW]

The evidence for referee bias in football is extensive, tested and clear; home bias is real. It's not the only bias but it does exist.

"For football, a number of studies have shown that referees favour the home team. Favouritism of football referees can be shown using different measures, such as stoppage time in close games, awarding goals, penalty kicks, and awarding cards to players. Though there are differences in magnitude, the results are consistent across different time periods as well as across countries."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/273835772_Referee_Bias

[LeonW]

For years we've let injustices go unremarked because, "We're better than that." Funnily enough, the clubs who aren't better than that, the ones who complain loudest, tend to be the clubs who win trophies.

Is the correct assessment.

[brontebilly]

The evidence for referee bias in football is extensive, tested and clear; home bias is real. It's not the only bias but it does exist.

"For football, a number of studies have shown that referees favour the home team. Favouritism of football referees can be shown using different measures, such as stoppage time in close games, awarding goals, penalty kicks, and awarding cards to players. Though there are differences in magnitude, the results are consistent across different time periods as well as across countries."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/273835772_Referee_Bias

It's the same in all sports. But I don't think it had any bearing on that incident. The referee just blew the whistle too early, he thought the keeper had control of the ball.

I was far more furious about decisions like was it Man City against us a few seasons back when Mings was dispossessed by an offside player and they scored. Instead of owning the mistake that time the referees came up with some weird interpretation of the offside rule, low and behold that was quietly addressed about a week later. That ticked all the boxes - home club decision, double down on the ridiculous reason for giving it, addressed afterwards. This season, there was a blatant penalty on Ramsey not given at Brighton. Sunday aside, can't remember off hand any more brutal calls against us this season.

[Chris_Jephcott]

I might be late to the party - but I thought this was title of a new ACR album that has been released.

[Olneythelonely]

If I worked for another club and the opportunity to help Villa came up I'm afraid I might have to help our beloved Villa.

nah you wouldn't. You'd be a professional and do your job for yourself, your career, reputation and family. We all think we would but most of us aren't corrupt. Or at least we wouldn't risk it all for football as much as we might love our club.

Just want to let everyone know where I am. I’d cheat to give Villa 3 points. Fuck myself, my career and my family.

[The Edge]

One idea to counteract the concious or subconscious bias is to use referee's from other countries. The richest league in the world can afford to fly in referee's from across Europe. Most of us think they hate the PL clubs anyway so they would have no reason to favour the Sky 6. Using a rookie ref for our game was really poor from Pgmol and as someone pointed out earlier Bramall has spent a lot of time in lower league football where they don't have VAR. Under the pressure of being at OT with the game beamed live across the globe maybe he forgot about VAR and just took a guess from 25 yards away where it was impossible to know for sure if the keeper had the ball under control. He literally had no need to do that.

[eamonn]

I'd make him rewatch the Wimbledon vs Walsall playoff final on a loop. That'll teach the bastard.

I was sad for Uncle. How did he play?

[Crown Hill]

The fact that he has been reffing in the Championship fairly recently this season, where they don't have VAR, might be why he instinctively blew rather than leaving it to VAR.
Which is why a more experienced prem ref would have been better.

That’s the key point Villa are making versus just complaining. Initially that’s what I thought. Nobody expects us to get the game replayed. It’s done. But it’s to make the point that in such a key game why put someone quite experience at this level for game with significant consequences, when so many other senior officials could have been on duty? He’s made a colossal error. We don’t know if we’d have held on to the lead (it’s us at Old Trafford after all), but at 1-0 with 20 minutes to go we have a shot to at least get a massive point.

Weirdly Michael Oliver was doing VAR at the irrelevant Spurs-Brighton game.

Now, he's a Newcastle fan, so probably shouldn't have been doing our game, but he could have done another game and bumped a more experienced ref into our game.

Even Attwell would've been better at another game instead of sitting on VAR for us.

I don’t think so. If it had got to him I think he would have said it was a foul. I still think it’s wrong he never refs Cov games but he does ref us regularly to our cost!

[Gareth]

The fact that he has been reffing in the Championship fairly recently this season, where they don't have VAR, might be why he instinctively blew rather than leaving it to VAR.
Which is why a more experienced prem ref would have been better.

That’s the key point Villa are making versus just complaining. Initially that’s what I thought. Nobody expects us to get the game replayed. It’s done. But it’s to make the point that in such a key game why put someone quite experience at this level for game with significant consequences, when so many other senior officials could have been on duty? He’s made a colossal error. We don’t know if we’d have held on to the lead (it’s us at Old Trafford after all), but at 1-0 with 20 minutes to go we have a shot to at least get a massive point.

Weirdly Michael Oliver was doing VAR at the irrelevant Spurs-Brighton game.

Now, he's a Newcastle fan, so probably shouldn't have been doing our game, but he could have done another game and bumped a more experienced ref into our game.

Even Attwell would've been better at another game instead of sitting on VAR for us.

I don’t think so. If it had got to him I think he would have said it was a foul. I still think it’s wrong he never refs Cov games but he does ref us regularly to our cost!

Attwell isn’t biased to anyone, he is absolutely awful for all teams he referees…& some idiot gave him the cup final