Thomas Bramall

[paul_e]

I don't blame him for getting the decision wrong,  because in real time and in any normal situation from where he was, that looks like a foul.

He blew too early, because he was confident in what he saw. He was wrong, it's costly, but he's a young guy in a very tough moment. It shouldn't ruin his career, he was put in by Webb and PGMOL, and that's where the real criticism should lay. That bunch of incompetents.

Agree about the decision itself, but it was the decision to blow the whistle when he did that was the key one.  It would be interesting to know if referees are Instructed to let play go in those kind of circumstances, but I guess it was such a rare occurrence that it might not be covered. 

Going forward, I guess the VAR rule could be changed to check incidents that occur after the whistle if a goal is scored immediately after?

It is rare but surely every professional ref knows that you don't blow the whistle as someone is taking a shot, you can always give the foul afterwards but as soon as you blow up you've taken any options away from yourself. Even without VAR taking a moment to decide if the keeper was holding the ball makes sense but with VAR it's just a bizarre choice which has created this whole shitshow for himself.

[Jockey Randall]

Humans make mistakes so we just have to take his on the chin. I'm sure he's beaten himself up about it enough. It's the PGMOL who need to change things here, it was clear after the Eze non-goal against Brentford there was a loophole that needs closing. They need to give the VAR the power to say whether the whistle has affected any of the defenders involved from preventing the goal, if not they should be able to intervene.

[Gareth]

Pile on on the ref himself is pointless and not right…he made the mistake he has to own it

Pile on to PGMOL and their leader is fully justified…they have to be held to account over standards or lack of them.

[Brend'Watkins]

Very admirable to say “take it on the chin” and “We all make mistakes”. We’re talking millions of £ in lost revenue here. When we’re looking to compete for a top striker or not having to sell a player does the same understanding apply?

[Toronto Villa]

I bet Kevin Friend, an experienced referee would have blown the whistle early too.

[DrGonzo]

I've calmed down enough now to be able to think about this without actually frothing at the mouth.  Having spent the rest of the season swearing about linesmen not raising the flag for clear offsides until 20 seconds after the incident, it does feel a little ironic to be swearing about the opposite when a referee is involved.  It was clearly the wrong decision, there can be no arguement.  The frustration is that VAR was unable to do the one thing it is there to do, correct the incorrect decision.  The rule saying that they cannot alter what occurs after the whistle is blown is the issue here.  The rule exists for those thimes when the whistle has gone, everybody has stopped and the attacker carries on a rolls the ball into an empty net, not what occured on sunday when the play was still very much "live".

We can't be narrow minded enough to say that we didn't get into the CL because of this one decision.  We left too many points out on the field earlier in the season, too many late goals conceeded, too many listless 45 minutes.  The final run in showed how much better we could have been all season, and tht is the greater frustration for me.

[amfy]

The fact that he has been reffing in the Championship fairly recently this season, where they don't have VAR, might be why he instinctively blew rather than leaving it to VAR.
Which is why a more experienced prem ref would have been better.

[Toronto Villa]

The fact that he has been reffing in the Championship fairly recently this season, where they don't have VAR, might be why he instinctively blew rather than leaving it to VAR.
Which is why a more experienced prem ref would have been better.

That’s the key point Villa are making versus just complaining. Initially that’s what I thought. Nobody expects us to get the game replayed. It’s done. But it’s to make the point that in such a key game why put someone quite experience at this level for game with significant consequences, when so many other senior officials could have been on duty? He’s made a colossal error. We don’t know if we’d have held on to the lead (it’s us at Old Trafford after all), but at 1-0 with 20 minutes to go we have a shot to at least get a massive point.

[Tokyo Sexwhale]

Championship level. Let's not forget the fact that apart from making the wrong decision to blow and deny the use of VAR, he's got the actual decision incorrect as well. So if there were no VAR we would have been screwed by a crap ref anyway. He's fucking shit, should be reffing Rags vs Oxford type games next season.

I suspect the issue is that he has been doing most of his reffing in the Championship where there is no VAR and you have to make a decision.

In a world without VAR, that decision gets chalked down as "just another referee mistake".

[Tokyo Sexwhale]

The fact that he has been reffing in the Championship fairly recently this season, where they don't have VAR, might be why he instinctively blew rather than leaving it to VAR.
Which is why a more experienced prem ref would have been better.

That’s the key point Villa are making versus just complaining. Initially that’s what I thought. Nobody expects us to get the game replayed. It’s done. But it’s to make the point that in such a key game why put someone quite experience at this level for game with significant consequences, when so many other senior officials could have been on duty? He’s made a colossal error. We don’t know if we’d have held on to the lead (it’s us at Old Trafford after all), but at 1-0 with 20 minutes to go we have a shot to at least get a massive point.

Weirdly Michael Oliver was doing VAR at the irrelevant Spurs-Brighton game.

Now, he's a Newcastle fan, so probably shouldn't have been doing our game, but he could have done another game and bumped a more experienced ref into our game.

[paul_e]

The fact that he has been reffing in the Championship fairly recently this season, where they don't have VAR, might be why he instinctively blew rather than leaving it to VAR.
Which is why a more experienced prem ref would have been better.

That’s the key point Villa are making versus just complaining. Initially that’s what I thought. Nobody expects us to get the game replayed. It’s done. But it’s to make the point that in such a key game why put someone quite experience at this level for game with significant consequences, when so many other senior officials could have been on duty? He’s made a colossal error. We don’t know if we’d have held on to the lead (it’s us at Old Trafford after all), but at 1-0 with 20 minutes to go we have a shot to at least get a massive point.

Weirdly Michael Oliver was doing VAR at the irrelevant Spurs-Brighton game.

Now, he's a Newcastle fan, so probably shouldn't have been doing our game, but he could have done another game and bumped a more experienced ref into our game.

Even Attwell would've been better at another game instead of sitting on VAR for us.

[Toronto Villa]

Maybe this will sound naive, but I don’t really buy this “he’s a fan of X so he shouldn’t be officiating a certain match” argument. Pretty much everyone who follows the game grows up supporting someone. When they become professionals in the game those things get put to the side. My old schoolmate Mark Harrison as an example was hardcore Bluenose. But now he works for us I’m sure he’s dedicated to doing the best for Villa. I know it’s a lot more sensitive and public as a match official, but I still believe all of them would do the right thing by the job versus who they might have supported or do.

[paul_e]

Maybe this will sound naive, but I don’t really buy this “he’s a fan of X so he shouldn’t be officiating a certain match” argument. Pretty much everyone who follows the game grows up supporting someone. When they become professionals in the game those things get put to the side. My old schoolmate Mark Harrison as an example was hardcore Bluenose. But now he works for us I’m sure he’s dedicated to doing the best for Villa. I know it’s a lot more sensitive and public as a match official, but I still believe all of them would do the right thing by the job versus who they might have supported or do.

You'd certainly hope they'd be able to at least set it aside.

[Smirker]

If I worked for another club and the opportunity to help Villa came up I'm afraid I might have to help our beloved Villa.

[Toronto Villa]

If I worked for another club and the opportunity to help Villa came up I'm afraid I might have to help our beloved Villa.

nah you wouldn't. You'd be a professional and do your job for yourself, your career, reputation and family. We all think we would but most of us aren't corrupt. Or at least we wouldn't risk it all for football as much as we might love our club.