Chris Heck - President of Business Operations

[dave.woodhall]

I've always said that the best scam ever pulled at Villa was Ellis making supporters think he cared as much about the Villa as they did. The idea that we have to rinse every last penny "in order to compete" is catching it up.

I agree that it is nonsense Dave.  Compete with who?  Manchester City and their bottomless pit of money?  Think we would need a bit more than a a converted suite at £60 a go to do that.

Compete with the teams around us in the table to qualify for Champions League, which gets us €15.6 million, and an extra €2.5mil for every group game we win (930k for a draw), along with TV money. Do it a couple of years in a row and we're looking at bigger and better sponsorship deals, kit deals, other advertising deals.

And to do that we have to take supporters for every penny?

[algy]

At the moment he is hopefully going through each of the existing contracts and working out which are good/bad/indifferent. What’s being outsourced that should be done by direct employees etc.

I’d guess lots of deals will expire each season but others might be multi-year deals. Until they’re all flushed through his hands are pretty tied unless he can create a fiasco like sweaty shirts to exit the deals earlier.

Prince William is a fan I suppose, but I'm not sure how much influence he'd have over his uncle tbh

[AV84]

I've always said that the best scam ever pulled at Villa was Ellis making supporters think he cared as much about the Villa as they did. The idea that we have to rinse every last penny "in order to compete" is catching it up.

I agree that it is nonsense Dave.  Compete with who?  Manchester City and their bottomless pit of money?  Think we would need a bit more than a a converted suite at £60 a go to do that.

Compete with the teams around us in the table to qualify for Champions League, which gets us €15.6 million, and an extra €2.5mil for every group game we win (930k for a draw), along with TV money. Do it a couple of years in a row and we're looking at bigger and better sponsorship deals, kit deals, other advertising deals.

And to do that we have to take supporters for every penny?

If you're a season ticket holder,  they already have your money, and probably don't care that much about you at this moment in time. Especially if there's really 30k on the waiting list, any one of them would take your place for the same price.

That group of people are probably way more of interest to the powers that be. That's 30,000 people willing to pay the price of a season ticket if given the opportunity, so maybe they'll pay £150 a couple of times a season instead for a match day experience, while they're waiting.

Where exactly are they squeezing every penny from? You buy your ticket and in exchange you get to see the football. Any other money you spend is your choice. A lot of people seem quite happy to get their pre and post match jollies at one of the pubs clever enough to take advantage of disgruntled fans. Spend your money there and see how much it helps us compete.

[tomd2103]

I've always said that the best scam ever pulled at Villa was Ellis making supporters think he cared as much about the Villa as they did. The idea that we have to rinse every last penny "in order to compete" is catching it up.

I agree that it is nonsense Dave.  Compete with who?  Manchester City and their bottomless pit of money?  Think we would need a bit more than a a converted suite at £60 a go to do that.

Compete with the teams around us in the table to qualify for Champions League, which gets us €15.6 million, and an extra €2.5mil for every group game we win (930k for a draw), along with TV money. Do it a couple of years in a row and we're looking at bigger and better sponsorship deals, kit deals, other advertising deals.

I agree about that, but not sure if the Lower Grounds and Terrace View are going to make that huge a financial  impact are they?

[dave.woodhall]

I don't think anyone outside the ticket office believes the 30,000 figure and to say those people are the Villa's priority is exactly what I mean. How about prioritising the 30,000 who were paying five years ago? And if you think that spending your money away from the ground is a bad thing, this probably isn't the right place to argue that particular corner.

[AV84]

I agree about that, but not sure if the Lower Grounds and Terrace View are going to make that huge a financial  impact are they?

I'm not sure how many tickets are available for each option, but let's say there's 500 sold for TV at the full £140, that's £70,000.
Say those seats are normal seats again and they sell 500 at £50 each, that's £25,000.
Even allowing for there being empty seats, they're probably still making a lot more money than they were.

This is what's listed as left for the upcoming games. Makes sense that the league games sell more given the ko times probably allow for more socialising before and after.

273 - Mostar
99 - West Ham
82 - Luton
593 - Alkmaar
550 - Legia

Assuming they're actually selling them and not giving them away to try and get a bit of publicity, then I'd say it's working for them, and it is going to bring in a lot of money.

[AV84]

I don't think anyone outside the ticket office believes the 30,000 figure and to say those people are the Villa's priority is exactly what I mean. How about prioritising the 30,000 who were paying five years ago? And if you think that spending your money away from the ground is a bad thing, this probably isn't the right place to argue that particular corner.

I'm not arguing anything, and there are valid concerns that people have with how things are being done. I'm not denying that.

The fact of the matter is that this guy has been brought in to make more money, and yes, you have to make some effort to retain the punters you have, but in terms of increasing profit, you're of little interest to them. They'll take your £25 a game extra for TV bolt on, if you want to pay it, but they're far more interested in the people who are willing to spend money but haven't got the opportunity to yet, ie. Seasons ticket waiting list.

Whether that's actually 30k or not, I don't know, but it is probably big enough to guarantee that anyone who doesn't renew in protest or on moral grounds or whatever, will be immediately replaced.

[dave.woodhall]

And that's the crux of the matter - long-standing supporters getting elbowed out in favour of big-spending new fans. 

[AV84]

And that's the crux of the matter - long-standing supporters getting elbowed out in favour of big-spending new fans.

Yeah, but what we've been discussing here is whether or not these things will actually make money, how that helps the club, and whether Heck is actually good at his job. The fact a lot of people don't like what his job is, is another matter, one being discussed in multiple threads for months.

[RamboandBruno]

I've always said that the best scam ever pulled at Villa was Ellis making supporters think he cared as much about the Villa as they did. The idea that we have to rinse every last penny "in order to compete" is catching it up.

I agree that it is nonsense Dave.  Compete with who?  Manchester City and their bottomless pit of money?  Think we would need a bit more than a a converted suite at £60 a go to do that.

Compete with the teams around us in the table to qualify for Champions League, which gets us €15.6 million, and an extra €2.5mil for every group game we win (930k for a draw), along with TV money. Do it a couple of years in a row and we're looking at bigger and better sponsorship deals, kit deals, other advertising deals.

But….in the new tab your card bar in the lower holte on Saturday, the staff were pouring one pint at a time and they ran out of food after food after 5. Mins.

Now you tell me how are we going to compete with Man City pouring one pint at a time with no chips on offer. Fucked.

[N'ZMAV]

Part of me is glad I can't actually get down there as much as I used to.

The lot is a rip off.

[RamboandBruno]

I've always said that the best scam ever pulled at Villa was Ellis making supporters think he cared as much about the Villa as they did. The idea that we have to rinse every last penny "in order to compete" is catching it up.

I agree that it is nonsense Dave.  Compete with who?  Manchester City and their bottomless pit of money?  Think we would need a bit more than a a converted suite at £60 a go to do that.

Compete with the teams around us in the table to qualify for Champions League, which gets us €15.6 million, and an extra €2.5mil for every group game we win (930k for a draw), along with TV money. Do it a couple of years in a row and we're looking at bigger and better sponsorship deals, kit deals, other advertising deals.

And to do that we have to take supporters for every penny?

If you're a season ticket holder,  they already have your money, and probably don't care that much about you at this moment in time. Especially if there's really 30k on the waiting list, any one of them would take your place for the same price.

That group of people are probably way more of interest to the powers that be. That's 30,000 people willing to pay the price of a season ticket if given the opportunity, so maybe they'll pay £150 a couple of times a season instead for a match day experience, while they're waiting.

Where exactly are they squeezing every penny from? You buy your ticket and in exchange you get to see the football. Any other money you spend is your choice. A lot of people seem quite happy to get their pre and post match jollies at one of the pubs clever enough to take advantage of disgruntled fans. Spend your money there and see how much it helps us compete.

One flaw here…where were the fabled 30k for the Everton game??

If you want to look at the future of the current strategy then look at the direness of that shambles. Maybe the 23k or whatever it was brought in as much cash as 40k on a lower price, although ChrisW has pointed out one flaw in less catering stuff being purchased.

However, if the future for Emery and the players is playing in front of 2/3rds full stadium with a silent holte end, then I’d suggest those extra thousands soon become largely irrelevant.

[VILLA MOLE]

I've always said that the best scam ever pulled at Villa was Ellis making supporters think he cared as much about the Villa as they did. The idea that we have to rinse every last penny "in order to compete" is catching it up.

I agree that it is nonsense Dave.  Compete with who?  Manchester City and their bottomless pit of money?  Think we would need a bit more than a a converted suite at £60 a go to do that.

Compete with the teams around us in the table to qualify for Champions League, which gets us €15.6 million, and an extra €2.5mil for every group game we win (930k for a draw), along with TV money. Do it a couple of years in a row and we're looking at bigger and better sponsorship deals, kit deals, other advertising deals.

But….in the new tab your card bar in the lower holte on Saturday, the staff were pouring one pint at a time and they ran out of food after food after 5. Mins.

Now you tell me how are we going to compete with Man City pouring one pint at a time with no chips on offer. Fucked.

They can’t get the basics right

[AV84]

One flaw here…where were the fabled 30k for the Everton game??

If you want to look at the future of the current strategy then look at the direness of that shambles. Maybe the 23k or whatever it was brought in as much cash as 40k on a lower price, although ChrisW has pointed out one flaw in less catering stuff being purchased.

However, if the future for Emery and the players is playing in front of 2/3rds full stadium with a silent holte end, then I’d suggest those extra thousands soon become largely irrelevant.

Purely on ticket sales the Everton game probably did make as much as it would have selling more for less £.

I'd assume they plan the catering based on expected attendance, and maybe staffing too. So maybe they're not selling as much, but they're probably saving in other ways there too.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't like the pricing for the Everton game, but again, from a business POV, the league cup isn't exactly a money maker.

[RamboandBruno]

One flaw here…where were the fabled 30k for the Everton game??

If you want to look at the future of the current strategy then look at the direness of that shambles. Maybe the 23k or whatever it was brought in as much cash as 40k on a lower price, although ChrisW has pointed out one flaw in less catering stuff being purchased.

However, if the future for Emery and the players is playing in front of 2/3rds full stadium with a silent holte end, then I’d suggest those extra thousands soon become largely irrelevant.

Purely on ticket sales the Everton game probably did make as much as it would have selling more for less £.

I'd assume they plan the catering based on expected attendance, and maybe staffing too. So maybe they're not selling as much, but they're probably saving in other ways there too.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't like the pricing for the Everton game, but again, from a business POV, the league cup isn't exactly a money maker.

I suppose the point I was making is not the monetary gain from the Everton game, more if all these 30k on the waiting list are desperate for tickets why didn’t they come to that game.
And secondly if the priority is squeezing more money out of those that come, even if it means less attend matches (like on Saturday) and continuing to corporatising the Holte, the smaller attendance and dire atmosphere at the Everton game will be a more frequent occurrence. Im not sure how attractive that would be to elite players or the elite manager we have, and without either the whole thing starts to unravel and we’ll see how many lower grounds tickets they sell then on a Wednesday night against Stoke.